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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Meat Eater podcast, part of the

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Speaker 1: Meat Eater podcast network. We know one great podcast isn't

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Speaker 1: Weeken Review. Brian Callahan hits you with the latest, greatest,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes weirdest stories out of the outdoors and conservation.

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Speaker 1: Get your dear fix You're round On Wired to Hunt

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Speaker 1: with Mark Kenyon, Ben O'Brien wades into the murky waters

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Speaker 1: of ethics in the outdoors so you don't have to

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Speaker 1: on the hunting collective and listen to Remmy Warren's detailed

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Speaker 1: tips and tactics for every hunting situation, cutting the distance.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe to these podcasts anywhere podcasts are found,

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Speaker 1: or listen at the meat eater dot com. This is

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Speaker 1: a meat Eater podcast. Shirtless, severely bog bitten, and in

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Speaker 1: my case, underwear listening Don't Me to Eat podcast You

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Speaker 1: Can't Predict Anything presented by on x Hunt, creators of

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Speaker 1: the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the

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Speaker 1: Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store, nor

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Speaker 1: where you stand with on x Okay We're gonna start

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Speaker 1: all with a quick song. She waki fall me for

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Speaker 1: home live, she me for fun boo ca me for

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Speaker 1: shan right you'll yeah, she um wa what do want me?

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Speaker 1: Ful car, That's what I'm talking about. That's beautiful, beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave that hanging. I'm gonna leave that hanging

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Speaker 1: as like a source attend and well I take over

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Speaker 1: other quick couple of things. We're joined by um this

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Speaker 1: is not i' gonna this hanging to, but we're doing

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Speaker 1: joined by Dr Justin. Oh Schmidt. You don't know this, uh,

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Speaker 1: Dr Schmidt. We've talked about you a whole bunch. So

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Speaker 1: we've talked about the Schmidt paint index and that led

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Speaker 1: me to start and reading about you and reading your

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Speaker 1: book and getting interested in you. But can you just

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Speaker 1: hang tight a minute? Sounds good? I was, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you I have to. Before we started here, before that

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Speaker 1: beautiful song, I was telling Cal that I had to.

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Speaker 1: Cal's telling me that I told him a story that's

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Speaker 1: not my story. You're confusing me with someone else, you don't,

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Speaker 1: that's correct, Yeah, I must be correct. Yeah. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Cal's saying like, oh, when you were saying and he

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Speaker 1: told the story. It's like, that's not my story. But

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Speaker 1: I have to this two chicken stories I do have,

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Speaker 1: not your chicken stories. I have where. Um, there's a

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Speaker 1: place in in in Mexico on the uk Tam Peninsula

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Speaker 1: to Loom, which used to be like just all like

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Speaker 1: hippie kids and stuff, and now it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: like families go there. People like what I used to

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Speaker 1: be like, people like that used to go there, and

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Speaker 1: now it's just people that are like what I'm like

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Speaker 1: now that go there. But um, they had this in

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Speaker 1: the old days twenty years ago. There's like this little

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Speaker 1: street in town and they would people would cook chickens,

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Speaker 1: is like the local thing, grilled chickens, and they'd have stumps,

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Speaker 1: I mean like full on stumps and cleavers and Machetti's

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Speaker 1: and they would be like grilling chickens and chopping chickens

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Speaker 1: on stumps, chopping blocks. My buddy Eric, um, my dear

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Speaker 1: late friend Eric was obsessed with these chickens and how

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Speaker 1: they could make these chickens so good. And you don't

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Speaker 1: understand like what what the magic touch was. So he

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Speaker 1: spoke very poor Spanish, but he makes it back into

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Speaker 1: the kitchen like you know, like he's he's penetrated the

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Speaker 1: the depths of the facility where they all this chicken,

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Speaker 1: and he's trying to like inquire, like what makes it

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Speaker 1: so good? How do you do it? And the guy

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Speaker 1: gestures to him that there's this trash can full of marinade,

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Speaker 1: and he uh is very eager to have Eric taste

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Speaker 1: the marinade. So Eric drinks some of the marinade and

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Speaker 1: then no sooner does he have a nice sip of

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Speaker 1: the marinade is the guy reaches into the trash can

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Speaker 1: and produces from it, um a number of raw chickens.

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Speaker 1: Then Eric's like, oh, this isn't gonna be good um

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Speaker 1: for my gut. But then the man then goes to

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Speaker 1: a frit a freezer, a chest freezer that's not even

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Speaker 1: plugged in, and opens it and it's just he says,

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Speaker 1: it's just the most foul, the most foul foul ever,

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Speaker 1: festering in like chicken liquid that's not refrigerated. And he

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Speaker 1: replenishes the vat of marinade with these chickens, and then

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Speaker 1: he indeed did get sick. I don't think I'm surprised. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you the story later has to do with

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Speaker 1: when I got to visit a turkey a place where

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Speaker 1: they process turkeys. Story, yeah, not even chicken. Story real

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Speaker 1: quick before we getting what we're supposed to be doing

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Speaker 1: here to uh the whole our whole live tour is

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Speaker 1: like about Licked. There's two venues laugh where you can

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Speaker 1: get tickets. Licked isn't sold out sold but does two

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Speaker 1: venues laugh where you can get tickets April five what's four?

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Speaker 1: Four April April fifteen. In April sixteen, we still have

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Speaker 1: tickets Masa Arts Center in Mesa, Arizona. So like eu

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Folk and then uh u l a Folk, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be at the National Grove in Anaheim for sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Other than that, you missed your chance, so hurry up

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Speaker 1: and book them up if you want to go, and

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Speaker 1: thanks for getting on it. Okay, now real quick, can

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Speaker 1: you uh the beautiful song we heard was from Dr Schmidt,

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Speaker 1: justin Schmidt's wife. Can you introduce yourself real quick? I'm

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Speaker 1: Leash Schmidt. I'm the Queen of sting O, Queen of

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Speaker 1: sing and can you offer us a rough translation of

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Speaker 1: the song? And then we're gonna turn the attention to

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Speaker 1: your husband Yeah, it's actually the wedding vowel song from

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Speaker 1: a Chinese minority group, and the meaning is basically said,

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Speaker 1: when the flower blooms becomes flower a bees are inseparable.

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Speaker 1: Bees seems born to love flowers, and flowers bloom just

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Speaker 1: for the bees, and that's a metaphor for the love

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Speaker 1: that will be shared between the husband and wife of

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Speaker 1: the wedding. Yes, that's cute and it's called me fun,

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Speaker 1: but in Chinese it's a hunch wedding. Wow. Are you

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Speaker 1: familiar with um? I don't fully understand. I might be

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Speaker 1: mutilating this. Are you familiar with the concept of um?

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Speaker 1: In Greek mythology, there's this concept of of like zenia

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Speaker 1: I think it is, or the guest host bond, and

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Speaker 1: it has to do with the relationship of a pollinator

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Speaker 1: and the flower, and it somehow translates into a bond

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Speaker 1: that exists between a guest. Like what what are the

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Speaker 1: obligations of a guest to their host? Hm? H uh oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead, letter rip because in China, guest has

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Speaker 1: no obligation to host. Host has full obligation to the

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Speaker 1: g guess there's no obligation to host. Try to be

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Speaker 1: a guest to China, so when you so, so it

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Speaker 1: would be unusual in China to bring a Like when

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Speaker 1: you go to someone's house for dinner, it would be

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Speaker 1: unusual to bring, say a bottle of wine or a gift.

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Speaker 1: Not a custom at all. When you come as always

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Speaker 1: a full service. It's a food, that's always like we

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Speaker 1: prepare everything. But now maybe it's different now because China

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Speaker 1: always want to mimic America. So but the guests have

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Speaker 1: guests have no obligation. In fact, the Chinese culture, which

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Speaker 1: she has half of it is very like if guests

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Speaker 1: your everything, like we we will prepare everything, like he

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Speaker 1: got the treat when it came to China and so

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Speaker 1: we I think our culture doesn't have that at all.

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Speaker 1: How you guys been married one years? Seriously? Hm, no,

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Speaker 1: it's impossible within China for thirty here for thirty years almost.

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Speaker 1: That's great. I'm not going to argue that women are

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Speaker 1: always right. We remember those dates. At least I didn't underestimate. Yeah, uh, okay,

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Speaker 1: tell people what an entomologist do? You describe yourself as

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Speaker 1: an entomologist. Pretty much, I describe myself as an entomologist

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Speaker 1: or a biologist or for the general public off and

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Speaker 1: just say I'm a bugologist. A bug is anything as

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Speaker 1: creepy crawley legs and jointed legs, and that pretty much

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Speaker 1: gets the concept across. But an entomologist doesn't work because

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Speaker 1: you work on things that aren't insects, right, well, I

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Speaker 1: work on racknets, which are spiders, scorpions, vinegar, ruins, and

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Speaker 1: various things of that sort, as well as mostly in

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Speaker 1: hymenopter which are ants, wasps, and bees, and there of

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Speaker 1: course insects. And when, uh, what drew you too, like

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Speaker 1: what initially drew you to to to digging into these animals,

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. When I was about five years old,

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Speaker 1: I was dared one time to sit on an ant

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Speaker 1: mound and those ants, of course didn't sting, but they

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Speaker 1: could sure crawl up your breeches and bite. And that

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Speaker 1: got my attention. And I realized at that point that

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Speaker 1: while there's life out there, and it's more complex than

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Speaker 1: I thought it was, and it isn't this kind of interesting,

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Speaker 1: you know? I find that like if you're a writer,

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Speaker 1: you know, oh you are writer because you have a book.

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Speaker 1: But if you're writing people, you go to do an

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Speaker 1: interview and they'll be like, why did you write this book?

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Speaker 1: And it's like there's two answers. There's you could you

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Speaker 1: could be glib but very honest. You'd be like, well,

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Speaker 1: I wrote it because I was trying to make money.

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Speaker 1: That chance of that. So what I'm saying, it's like,

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Speaker 1: there's like that answer, then there'd be the answer that

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Speaker 1: is expected of you, which is um oh, I had

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Speaker 1: a story that had to be told, you know, and

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Speaker 1: both are equally true. But when you were growing up

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Speaker 1: to become and wanted to become a scientist, was that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't have thought to yourself at a young age

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Speaker 1: that like, there's a way that I'll be able to

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Speaker 1: make a living is by studying bugs. No, I I

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Speaker 1: was fact swait it from studying bugs. You can't make

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Speaker 1: a living studying bugs, I was told. So I became

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Speaker 1: a chemist. Chemists make all kinds of cool things and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of not so cool things, but anyway, they

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Speaker 1: get paid well for doing it. So I went to

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Speaker 1: chemistry and went to bachelor and master's degree and said,

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Speaker 1: all these people and my friends are having such a

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Speaker 1: good time with outdoors or geologists. They're biologists and marine biologists.

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Speaker 1: You know whatever they are, and they're having a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun outside. This was in Vancouver, British Columbia, which

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Speaker 1: is very much like Montana. It's got lots of trees

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Speaker 1: and streams and opportunities. I said, gosh, I gotta find

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Speaker 1: a way to make life more interesting. Etmology was the

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Speaker 1: way I applied chemistry to studying insects and bugs. And

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Speaker 1: so that was where the transition came. That they weren't

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Speaker 1: jealous of the lab jacket and the protective goggles and

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Speaker 1: the benzine and the carbon tetric clarda was breathing every day, No, okay,

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Speaker 1: So that became that that became your focus with insects

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Speaker 1: is the chemistry of it, particularly what they do to

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Speaker 1: their enemies exactly. I thought, you know, here I am.

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Speaker 1: I always have all this chemistry training and I have

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Speaker 1: very little animalogy training. What can I do with this

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Speaker 1: training that I have in this whole new field? And

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, these things hurt. Ever been stung by

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Speaker 1: a bee or a wasp or anything? We all have

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Speaker 1: and they heard so I said, hm, hmmm, what makes

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Speaker 1: them hurt? What's what's the chemistry? This chemistry behind everything?

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Speaker 1: And so I started working on this particular ant called

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Speaker 1: the harvest rants, which hurt a whole lot more than

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Speaker 1: a bee or a wasp. And I said, these little

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Speaker 1: dinky things the third of an inch long, you know,

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Speaker 1: how in the heck do they hurt so dog on

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Speaker 1: much and hurt for four to eight hours. What's the

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Speaker 1: chemistry behind this? So I said, ah, mystery, let's go

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Speaker 1: and work on this. When I found out about you,

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Speaker 1: it was after I got stung by a bullet ant

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Speaker 1: lucky you in Bolivia, and I later in researching it,

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Speaker 1: I came across you, and I came across the your

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Speaker 1: you know, the Schmidt paint index. Like you have a

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Speaker 1: whole lifetime of work you've done. It probably drives you

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Speaker 1: crazy that people reduce it down to like I'm doing

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Speaker 1: right now, that they reduce it down to you. You You

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Speaker 1: came up with this like very clever pain index when

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Speaker 1: you've done all this work. But that's like what you're

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Speaker 1: known for now to layman, is that annoying? No? I

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Speaker 1: think figure is better to be known for something than

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Speaker 1: nothing at all. So I found you that way. But

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Speaker 1: to my credit, I I dug deeper. But I found

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Speaker 1: you because you had a description of what it's like

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Speaker 1: to um be stung by a bullet ant. And the

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Speaker 1: reason I became interested in the chemistry of it is

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Speaker 1: because of I think you give it the most severe

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Speaker 1: score exactly four plus. Yeah, it's the highest of anything.

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Speaker 1: The Tranchila hawk is about equally high. But on the

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Speaker 1: last two or three minutes was that bullet and asked

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Speaker 1: last twelve the thirty six hours. So given the choice,

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Speaker 1: I'll take the two to three minutes over the twelve

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Speaker 1: and thirty six hours. When I got um stung by one,

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Speaker 1: what I became what enthralled me about it was how

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Speaker 1: severe the pain was exactly. But then for me that

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Speaker 1: three hours later, I couldn't remember what foot it was.

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Speaker 1: He probably didn't want to remember. No, it just was

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Speaker 1: so unbelievably intense that I was worried about and I

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Speaker 1: didn't I didn't know about bullet ants. It was so intense.

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Speaker 1: I was worried about dying because I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: it meant. I don't know, is it like getting is

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Speaker 1: it like getting bit by a snake? Like I knew

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Speaker 1: it was bad to get bit by one, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how bad. And so there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of psychological like a lot of anxiety around the bite,

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Speaker 1: but then the pain was gone, and I just wondered, like,

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Speaker 1: how could something hurt so bad and seemed like it's

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Speaker 1: doing so much damage to your body, but then it's ephemeral. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that reason is because we're so big. If

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Speaker 1: you're a mouse, you would have been past tens because

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Speaker 1: they're actually quite toxic and do a lot of damage

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Speaker 1: as well. But you figured a little and it's inch

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Speaker 1: long and at max and it has volatively small size. Now,

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Speaker 1: if it was say four ft long, like a typical snake,

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Speaker 1: and it's stung you, while you probably wouldn't be here today,

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Speaker 1: they can kill a mouse. Oh yeah. Why did just

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Speaker 1: back up on this a little bit, just kind of

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Speaker 1: like the beginning, And I have just read your book

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Speaker 1: The Sting of the Wild. Um, Why let's approach this

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Speaker 1: this way. Why do you feel that certain indec or

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Speaker 1: certain insects or anything spiders? But why did bugs need

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Speaker 1: to develop a way to sting? Like what were the

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Speaker 1: things that led them to to have the necessity to

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Speaker 1: do this. There's quite a few different things that would

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Speaker 1: gone One of the problems. When you're a social insect

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Speaker 1: like an aunt, you have a colony of three thousand

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Speaker 1: fairly big ants, and you know, that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: meat there to eat, and that means big people are

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Speaker 1: gonna want to eat you, you know, like raccoons and

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Speaker 1: quada mondays and things of that sort, larger animals. If

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with something that's a million times bigger than you, biting, scratching,

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Speaker 1: kicking just doesn't cut the mustard. You have to have

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Speaker 1: some way to get through. And the sting gets through

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Speaker 1: your skin and gets directly to where the nerves are.

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Speaker 1: So that's a way of defending yourself and your nest mates,

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Speaker 1: and you're young and that kind of thing. But the

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Speaker 1: bullet ant is a little bit different from most of

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Speaker 1: the rest of them. Why it needs to be so

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Speaker 1: extreme is they live down on the ground of the rainforest,

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Speaker 1: down at the base of a tree. They crawl up

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Speaker 1: the tree up into the canopy. Up in the canopy

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Speaker 1: they forage for nectar and sweet honeydew and hay fits

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Speaker 1: in those sorts of things, and pray, you know, pray

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Speaker 1: for feeding their young. Well, if you've ever been up

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Speaker 1: in a canopy of a rainforest, there's frogs, there's lizards,

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Speaker 1: there's birds, there's monkeys everything on earth, and what are

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Speaker 1: they all having common? They all eat insects. And if

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Speaker 1: you can't jump away like a grasshopper, and you can't

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Speaker 1: fly away like a fly because you're an aunt without

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Speaker 1: any wings, you don't really want to drop off from

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Speaker 1: fifty or sixty ft up because how are you ever

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Speaker 1: going to find your way back up? So you've got

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Speaker 1: to be so tough that these things learned oh big

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Speaker 1: black ant. No no no, no no, no, no, I don't

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Speaker 1: think I want to go there. And the way that

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Speaker 1: happens is they get stung once and that's it. They

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Speaker 1: will learn for life that never mess around with you.

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Speaker 1: And so that's basically a defensive system that allows them

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Speaker 1: to exploit the most dangerous place on earth for a

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Speaker 1: small insect. But what about all the insects that um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what about all the insects that can't do that? Right?

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Speaker 1: Like a like a like a butterfly has no defense

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Speaker 1: system like that. Well, butterflies, some of them actually are

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Speaker 1: quite toxic. Eat them. And the famous picture Lincoln Brower

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Speaker 1: blue jay eating a monarch butterfly and barsets guts out

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Speaker 1: after that. As you all know, if you've eaten a

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Speaker 1: bad meal or something in your barf your guts out.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to eat that same kind of food

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Speaker 1: for quite a long time. You get this toxic aversion,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of butterflies do that. A lot

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Speaker 1: of things actually avoid the predators by hiding. You know,

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Speaker 1: caterpillars are often green, they're living on green vegetation, so

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Speaker 1: they're just a hard to see and they don't move.

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Speaker 1: And grasshoppers, of course can jump, and once they're an adult,

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Speaker 1: they can fly, and grasshoppers even have some of the

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Speaker 1: clever approaches. You'll see a lot of them up here

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Speaker 1: in Montana. They fly and they click, so they make

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Speaker 1: a noise which allergs to where they are, and they

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Speaker 1: have bright colored wings, and then when they land, they

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Speaker 1: pull their wings in and they become absolutely like the dirt.

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Speaker 1: They're just kind of grayish or brownish speckled, and they've

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Speaker 1: become invisible. So you're following the noise and the view

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Speaker 1: and advantages and you can't find them, and it's almost

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Speaker 1: a failsafe defense that they have. So each insect, that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's really cool is each insect

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Speaker 1: has their own strategy how they make it you're familiar

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Speaker 1: with white tail deer, I'm sure, how could you not be?

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Speaker 1: They're tasty. Uh have you ever heard the idea um

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Speaker 1: that the white tail functions similar to what you're talking

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Speaker 1: about with grasshoppers, where when they're running away, they put

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Speaker 1: up this this big white tails like this like beacon

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Speaker 1: exactly going through the woods, and then they stop and

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Speaker 1: drop the tail, and then your eye is your I

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Speaker 1: tunes into that highly visible white tail, and that's what

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Speaker 1: you're following when it runs away. And then it just

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Speaker 1: drops his tail, and it takes away the thing that

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Speaker 1: you had, the thing that you had found focus on.

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Speaker 1: It becomes invisible. You weren't You weren't actually watching the deer,

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Speaker 1: You were watching the tail exactly. But we have an

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Speaker 1: even more interesting scenario in Arizona. We have a zebra

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Speaker 1: tail lizard, which is a fairly fast running lizard. And

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Speaker 1: if you're tw so away from it, it it waves this

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Speaker 1: tail back and forth saying I'm here, I dare you

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Speaker 1: to try to catch me, and you're running it it

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Speaker 1: takes off. Usually most predators don't bother because they realize

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Speaker 1: it knows that that I'm here. It's too fast. I

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Speaker 1: can't catch it much like the deer. If the deer

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Speaker 1: is a long way away, I don't have the tail.

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Speaker 1: But if it's really close to you, it's not gonna

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Speaker 1: do that. You know you're just ten feet away. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna just try to freeze and hope, hope the heck

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Speaker 1: you don't know it's there. But once it gets you know,

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Speaker 1: some distance way, then the tail goes up and it runs.

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Speaker 1: The lizard does the same sort of thing, and it's

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Speaker 1: actually a very good strategy. It's a beautiful way to

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Speaker 1: enhance your chance that you're not dinner for somebody else?

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Speaker 1: Was it I've been I've been quoting uh story you

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Speaker 1: told in your book. Um, I swear it. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you what it is, and you remind me if

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Speaker 1: it was your book or a different But I read

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Speaker 1: a handful books by researchers such as yourself Did You Talk?

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Speaker 1: Did You Talk? Talk? In the Sting of the Wild,

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Speaker 1: about how young scientists are so impactful because they're asking

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Speaker 1: original questions, and that you find that older scientists spend

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Speaker 1: their time defending their old idea. Exactly. Yeah, I call

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Speaker 1: that science progresses by one coffin at a time. You

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Speaker 1: gotta you gotta kill off the old guys, so the

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Speaker 1: new guys gonna have freedom to make new discoveries. D Uh,

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Speaker 1: when you were what was your idea when you were young?

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Speaker 1: Like if you had to say where here you are?

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Speaker 1: You know, you're going through the education system, You're getting

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Speaker 1: a doctorate. You know you have an interest in chemistry,

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Speaker 1: you're developing an interest in insects things. But you have

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Speaker 1: to sort of turn it into a question, right, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there has been like some foundational premise. I'm guessing if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna pursue the line of work that you pursue,

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Speaker 1: what became your thing that you needed to answer? Basically,

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Speaker 1: I was asking a question, how did sociality and insects evolve?

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Speaker 1: In other words, how did you go for mom single

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Speaker 1: mom raising all her young alone like a sand wasp

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Speaker 1: or or digger be something like that. It was just

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Speaker 1: mom and her young. All of a sudden, you get

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Speaker 1: a huge social society like Honeybee colony with thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: individuals or some ant colonies that have up to a

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Speaker 1: million individuals. You have a whole lot of I was

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Speaker 1: asking a question, how did you get around the predation

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Speaker 1: pressure of predators? You know, if you're My analogy is

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Speaker 1: if you're in the party and you see a bowl

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Speaker 1: and has one peanut, it's across the room. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not worth the effort to go and get that peanut hungry,

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Speaker 1: but the bulls full of peanuts, then you're gonna go

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Speaker 1: and get grab a handful. Same kind of thing with

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Speaker 1: social insects. So the question is how does that peanut,

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Speaker 1: for the analogy, defend itself when it becomes many peanuts

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Speaker 1: so that doesn't get eaten. And I came up with

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Speaker 1: a hypothesis as well, the stinging venom, which relies on

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Speaker 1: two things. The pain gets your attention and the toxicity

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Speaker 1: which does your damage. That that was the reason that

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Speaker 1: they could evolve sociality. Whereas you don't see social flies

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Speaker 1: or you don't see social beatles because they don't have

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Speaker 1: any way to defend themselves other than maybe being nasty toxic.

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Speaker 1: But the ants, spies, and wasps had this automatic stinger ability.

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Speaker 1: It's all I had to do is evolve the behavior

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Speaker 1: to use it right and the chemistry to make it effective.

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Speaker 1: So that was my hypothesis. I wanted to collect evidence

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Speaker 1: two either refute or support that hypothesis, and that's basically

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Speaker 1: what I did. I'm guessing you thought to ask this question.

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Speaker 1: Is it in fact true that the ability to sting

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Speaker 1: in in HAVE societies is something that progressed over time

403
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Speaker 1: and that there weren't things that used to be venomous

404
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: and social big overtime became not venomous and not social, like,

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Speaker 1: does it always move in that direction? Does a does

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Speaker 1: always move towards complexity? Well, yes and no. Most of

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Speaker 1: the time it does. There's an advantage of complexity. Have

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Speaker 1: social behavior. You can have some individuals specializing and foraging,

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Speaker 1: someone defending the nest, someone building the nest, someone collecting water,

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Speaker 1: someone reproducing, and these sorts of things. A specialist is

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Speaker 1: much better than a generalist. And the other thing is

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Speaker 1: when you're away from home. If you're just a single

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Speaker 1: mom said digger, b out there in a sandbox someplace

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Speaker 1: you go away to get the flowers for nectar and pollen.

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Speaker 1: Somebody can invade your nest and eat your young while

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Speaker 1: you're gone. If you're social, you have a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people still there. Hey, get out of here, intruder, and

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Speaker 1: we'll teach you the lesson by stinging you or attacking you.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of advantages to sociality, which means

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Speaker 1: most of the time it doesn't reverse. But there are

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Speaker 1: a few cases. There's some solitary bees that evolve sociality

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Speaker 1: and low levels, but then as they progress in the

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Speaker 1: further north in the shorter seasons, those that were social

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Speaker 1: and become back to solitary because there's not enough time

425
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: to have two generations. If your social, you have to

426
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 1: have mom living with babies. Babies help mom, and they

427
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: were the next grandchildren at least, and most of them

428
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: they continue on for many generations. But you need at

429
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: least the overlap of mom and her young to help

430
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: mom in order to be social. And so in some

431
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: extreme situations you can you can lose that. But it's

432
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: not because of the normal disadvantages. It's because climatic restrictions,

433
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, just don't give you the time to do it.

434
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: When there's that shows a name for this concept and evolution, um,

435
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: and maybe you can provide it for me. But to

436
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: be like that, well, you see something fly, Okay, so

437
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: you see that there's birds of flying insects that fly. Um,

438
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: one could be excused for looking at these two things

439
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: flying through the air, a dragonfly and a hummingbird and

440
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: think that there's a relationship there that somehow flight began,

441
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: like flight happened and it spread and became like flight

442
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: for hummingbirds and and flight for dragonflies. But in fact

443
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: they they independently arrived at this exactly. So are there

444
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: like to be venomous like a beer or whatever to

445
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: be venomous? Are there like a bunch of families of

446
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: insects that all kind of like independently invented this technology

447
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: or does it seemed like there's like a thing somewhere

448
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: that did this and it proliferated and dispersed over time,

449
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: when in the case of ants, bees, and wasps, there's

450
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 1: a one ancestor that had had an ovpositive actually an

451
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: egg laying to that's a tube that you punch into

452
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: a plant or another insect and use that to inject

453
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: an egg kind of like a syringe injects eggs. Bo

454
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: is that how about does a body fy do that

455
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: when it puts a baby inside? You know, they actually

456
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: uh lay the egg on vegetation or some of them

457
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: will get on mosquitoes. And then the larva, which is

458
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: what they call a plenary in which is kind of

459
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: this mobile worm like thing that's very rapidly moving, and

460
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: one of the mosquito lands on you. Then it crawls

461
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 1: off the mosquito and onto you and the and the

462
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: young larva, which is tenth of a millimeter long, it's

463
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: really tiny, tiny little thing burrows into your skin and

464
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: then from there that's what becomes the bot fly. And yeah,

465
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: that's how that happens. Yeah, it's kind of sending a

466
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: harrowing picture. Squirreling got my goodness, is out upsetting squirrels,

467
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: Stephen rolla squirrels. This little tiny squirrel has got three

468
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: or four these enormous whopping The big bot flies in

469
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: and you can say, how does this squirrel survive? That?

470
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: Can you give me the favorite to give me that

471
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: life cycle of abot flagon. What's basically they lay eggs

472
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure where. I think it's on vegetation

473
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: and somehow where they gets onto a mosquito, and a

474
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: mosquito then flies around it like he hitches a ride

475
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: on a mosquito. Yeah, basically a freeloader. And what they

476
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 1: drawls off on a you or a squirrel or whatever

477
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: it is. And they detect when the mosquitoes feeding because

478
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: you're warm and squirrels warm, whereas the mosquitoes landing on

479
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: a leaf or on a flower sucking nectar, you know,

480
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: because they drink sugar water too to get their energy

481
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: to fly the plnary and doesn't crawl off then because

482
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: you're not warm, you're not their host. They just hang

483
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: tight until the mosquito finally gets on you or the

484
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: squirrel or whatever it is. There's a lot of different

485
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: species of them, and then they crawl off. They're pretty

486
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: quick about doing that. And then they're they're so small

487
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: you don't feel them. You know, they won't be moving

488
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: any hairs in your body to tickle you or anything.

489
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: We'd swat them or rub them or something that just

490
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: very small and quiet. They just burrow in and you

491
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: don't really notice anything until they're quite a bit bigger.

492
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: That One of the questions of chemistry on these things,

493
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: which I'm not aware anybody's looked at, is how do

494
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: they burrow a hole in you without you feeling it.

495
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: My hunch is that they have an anesthesia, you know,

496
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: kind of like to go to the dentist and he

497
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: numbs your your skin or your tooth or whatever it is.

498
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: I suspect they do that. But you know, something a

499
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: tenth of a millimeter long, how are you going to

500
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: study that? It's pretty tough problem. Your body doesn't like

501
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: your white blood cells, like, don't you don't really attack that,

502
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: you you just end up being host to that. Yeah,

503
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: they probably also have other defenses against the immune system.

504
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: You know, most of these things have a whole suite

505
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: of complex behaviors, some of them for numbing it, some

506
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: of them in mosquitoes case or ticks case. They have

507
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: other chemicals prevent clotting so you don't stuff up there.

508
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: They're blood feeding to be their proboscus or you know whatever.

509
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: And then they also have things to prevent immune system

510
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: from attacking them, and so that there's a whole smorgest

511
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: sport of goodies that they inject into you, which aren't

512
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: good for you, but good for them. Uh. I want

513
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: I know where you were when I when we got

514
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: you sidetracked, and I'm gonna I'm holding it in my

515
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: head just so we all know. You were beginning to

516
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: talk about the evolutionary forefather of a stinging insect and

517
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: how I had to do with the proboscus over a

518
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: positive the positives are egg laying too. Yeah, I'm still

519
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: not ready to come back to that though, because you

520
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: talk about mosquitoes. Gott me, I got a mosquito question. Um,

521
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: only female mosquitoes bite, that's right, And most of the

522
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: males are pretty nice guys, and antspeas and wash and

523
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: males are nice guys too. It's the girls that you

524
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: gotta worry about. Is it true that a female mosquito

525
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: can still be successful, can still be a successful egg

526
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: layer even if it never bites a mammal and gets

527
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: blood out of it or a birden gets blood out

528
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: of it. It's kind of a yes or no question

529
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: that it's it's both. That often they will lay a

530
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: small batch of eggs, you know, just a few dozen

531
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: or something. That's all they have in their own body

532
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: reserves from not having you know, fed on blood versus

533
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: that they feed on you or me, or or an

534
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: elk or a reindeer or you know, something of that sort.

535
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: Then they fill up with double the amount of energy

536
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: that they had before, I think, produce hundreds of eggs,

537
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: and then they can get another blood meal produce another

538
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: couple of hundred. So if you look at two or

539
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: three cycles of several hundred eggs versus one cycle of

540
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: paltry dozen or two. You can see that. That's why

541
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: I say yes and no that yes, you technically can

542
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: do it, but it's not a very successful strategy to

543
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: do it. It's much better to take your risk. What's

544
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: my chance of getting swatted and killed? Which means I

545
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: passed no jeans a long versus ten times as many

546
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: as if I don't feed. And obviously the calculus in

547
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: the case of mosquito is it's worth the risk of

548
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: getting the blood meal. Where are all the guys, Like

549
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: when you're when you're out and you're getting swarmed by mosquitoes?

550
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Are you swarmed by males and females but it's only

551
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: the females biting you, or the are the guys elsewhere?

552
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: The guys are elsewhere they're looking for the girls, and

553
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: they often hang out where they're going to be feeding

554
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: because blood doesn't have much energy. It's mostly just protein,

555
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: which of course what you need for laying eggs, but

556
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: your energy comes from floral neck or something and this

557
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: sort of sugary sweet things. So often the guys will

558
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: kind of hang out around that looking where they can

559
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: sneak up and catch a goal while she's getting lunch

560
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: or something like that. Are they born on a one

561
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: to one ratio or are their boatloads more females and males.

562
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: Now they're pretty much one to one, huh most most so,

563
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: when you got that huge swarm, there's that many guys

564
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: sitting under some leaf exactly, but they're not bothering and

565
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: they'll they'll fly away if you get anywhere near them.

566
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: They're not dumb. They don't want to be squatted because

567
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: they look right pretty much. They have a furrier proboscis,

568
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: their stingery there. Their blood feeding tube usually is more

569
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: furry because they need this for sensory things to detect

570
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: and find the female. I eat with one more mosquito one, yeah, exactly.

571
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: When we were kids, we had the belief, and I

572
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: feel like I swear it works. Cal You probably did

573
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: this where you catch a mosquito biting you and you

574
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: would you know, the idea is that you would pinch

575
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: it and so that you were trapping his sucker what's

576
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: the word for a sucker probos You pinch him and

577
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: trap his proboscis. And our belief where I grew up

578
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: was that they could not stop sucking. Once they got

579
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: in there, they and you would blow it up. You

580
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: would eventually if you did it right, it would eventually erupt. Cool.

581
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: I've never heard that sounds like a great thing to do.

582
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: I would have done that if I had known about

583
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: that's your next paper. So that doesn't ring true to you. Well,

584
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I know, I knew. We used

585
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: to Sometimes they get in the crease of your knuckle

586
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: and you straighten your finger and pinches so they can't

587
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: get away, and then you could just kind of look

588
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: at and torment this thing. But we never actually did

589
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: it long enough to see whether they exploded. That. That's

590
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: a good experiment. You need to repeat that, Man, I

591
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 1: haven't done a long time. But yeah, you'd you'd suffer

592
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: a lot of stings in order to eventually get one.

593
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: And I know for a fact you can hold them captive. Yeah,

594
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: I know, Yeah, we did that. But our view was

595
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know that I ever saw it might just

596
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: been like a thing we knew to be true, even

597
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: though no one ever saw as it would eventually, like

598
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: I said, explode another chapter. Yeah, considering you have three

599
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: kids of prime age for this, you'll you'll be able

600
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: to collect some data on this and then wait for

601
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: a nice wet June evening and I'm gonna make them

602
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: ball in the yard and they can write it up

603
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: with a nice photograph and publish it in the journal.

604
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of good candidates who would love

605
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: to have them in their journal. I like, Okay, I

606
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: want to go back to where you were trying to

607
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: talk what you're trying to talk about. I was asking about, like,

608
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: where did it begin? Where did the ability to like

609
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: wallop someone with a nasty sting begin? And and you

610
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: were getting into explaining, um that here's a bug and

611
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 1: a head an ovipositor, you know, I first started out

612
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: they went through solitary bees in solitary offs, and they

613
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: use the stinger mainly for paralyzing their prey. Say a

614
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: cicada killer for example. It has it's a big boss,

615
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: looks like a yellow jacket on steroids and growth hormone,

616
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: so it's quite huge. But it doesn't sting. It's solitary.

617
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: It's just mom and she goes out and catches the

618
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: cicada and she stings it then paralyzes it just by

619
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: piercing it, not by poisoning it. No, no, she poisons

620
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 1: and so she pierces it and poisons it, and then

621
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: she has this venom, which is very ineffective on us

622
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: because we don't prey on cicada killers because again, there's

623
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: not worth the effort to try to track down this

624
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: fast flying insect just to get one snack a bite.

625
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: Not worth the energy to do that. But then some

626
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: of them adapted different behaviors like ants. Of course they

627
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: can't fly, so they have a more limited ability to escape.

628
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: And we don't really know the ancestor of ants because

629
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 1: the closest we have is very primitive ant societies, which

630
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: have maybe say a dozen or so individuals, but they're

631
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: already social, so we don't know the step between that

632
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: when has a single individual to go to the small

633
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: first step. But presumably something happened there where he had

634
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: overlap of generations and mom and a few ones, a

635
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: few individuals helped out. And the advantage of having a

636
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: stinger is there's something that's messing with you, you can

637
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: sting it and chances are to go away and then

638
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: leave you and your mom and your your siblings alone.

639
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: And so then this as you've got bigger colonies evolved.

640
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: You know, say something where you know a couple of

641
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: hundred ants, then you have to have a better defense

642
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: because there's more enthusiasm. I'm more willing to eat a

643
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 1: hundred something than I am a dozen or fewer, and

644
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 1: so I have higher motivation. So in order to blunt

645
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: the higher motivation, you've got to get a more effective sting.

646
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: So this is basically the hypothesis of stepwise as you

647
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: get bigger and bigger, and it takes it to the extreme,

648
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: which there's about a dozen wasps in this category. Honeybees

649
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: are also in it, and one ant species of harves strand.

650
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: What they do is go to the extent of actually

651
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: giving up their life sacrifice and committing suicide by stinging you,

652
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: ripping the stinger out. If everybody's been stung by honeybee

653
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: knows they lose the stinger in you. You say, why

654
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: would they do that? It's because at this point, the

655
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: individual honeybee doesn't reproduce, she doesn't lay eggs or anything.

656
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: She's protecting mom. So she's basically like a cell of

657
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: mom that she's part of the system to reproduce, and

658
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: she got he's got to keep. Now I'm getting into

659
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: the heat like you. Sorry, the worker honeybee, the female

660
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: honeybee has to defend its mom and by leaving the

661
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: stinger and you, that prevents you from If you get

662
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: stung and you give it a karate chop, you get

663
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 1: it off before it does much damage. He gets much

664
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: venom and it takes about thirty seconds to a minute

665
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: to get a full load of venomin. If you lose

666
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: your stinger, then your karate chopping you knock off the

667
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 1: bee and say ah solution be gune a kill your ascal.

668
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: Wrong because the stingers in you and it pumps that

669
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: other of the venom into you. And that's beneficial as

670
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: an even stronger defense than just the venom and stinging itself,

671
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: because now you get ten times more in. And it's

672
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: often very hard to find a penetrable part of the animal.

673
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: You know, you have a lizard or something like that.

674
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: It's hard to find between the scales the sting where

675
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: most mammals we have all this fur and hair and everything.

676
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: You know, we're unusual people were pretty easy to sting.

677
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: We don't have much hair, but it's often very hard

678
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: to manage to get you know, a place where you

679
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: can sting and so it's important once you get to

680
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: maximize the damage that you did. So it just keeps

681
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: accent to writing as there's more and more risk. All

682
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: these ones that lose stingers are huge. Colonies are big,

683
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: like the honey wasp and honeybee. And there's a bunch

684
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: of Polibia wasps which are papermaking nests down in Latin

685
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: America and the tropics that also have huge colonies of

686
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: sometimes individuals. You think about it, you lose one individual, yeah,

687
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: so what who cares? But if you have a colony

688
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: of ten, like some of the small ants, you lose one,

689
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: that's a big price to pay. So they never lose

690
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: their sting. It's only these super huge monsters social societies

691
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: that do that. It's this is an impossible question for

692
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: anyone to answer. But the ones that self eviscerate, they

693
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: sting in, they die like they you know exactly, It's

694
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: impossible to know what m oh Man like, what their

695
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: self awareness is, right, But like most creatures are gonna

696
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: I should say most a lot of creatures exhibit they

697
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: desire to not get killed self preservation. Yeah, they do

698
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: things because they don't want to get killed. Um, I

699
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: would love to know like, to what degree it has

700
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: any sort of self awareness about the finality of the

701
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: decision to bite. I think they're quite well aware of that.

702
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: I just have a paper submitted just six months ago

703
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: and basically that question. I asked, the question of honeybee colonies,

704
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: will you make a decision? Is it worth dying for

705
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: my colony or is it not? And the two questions

706
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: they give them is one case, they have only a nest,

707
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: they have no young, they have no food, no paul,

708
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: no nectar, no honey or anything. That's like they're just

709
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: building a house. Like, yeah, that's just in the initial stages.

710
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: Three days old colony, and so you came from a

711
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: swarm and you had a bunch of honey in your tummy,

712
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: and you've been there three days, and if worst comes

713
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: to worst, you just off you go find a new

714
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: nest to very little lose. And the other case that

715
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 1: I had was nineteen to twenty two days, whereas that's

716
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: midway through your life cycle. Of the oldest bees are

717
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: starting to die off. They live about forty days in general,

718
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: and so you you have a whole bunch of young

719
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: there which are just about to emerge and start taking over.

720
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: You have a lot of honey, of a lot of plony,

721
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: have a lot of wax, you have a lot of investment.

722
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: And in that case, if you're a worker be will

723
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: you decide, Oh, I have a lot more to risk

724
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: my mama, who's everything to me. Because I can't reproduce.

725
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: All I can do is allow her to reproduce. So

726
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: should I sacrifice my life my mama much more readily

727
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 1: when I'm in a colony that's older and has much

728
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: more to lose than younger And the answer is yes,

729
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: the two and a half times more likely to sting

730
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: when they're the older at the bigger risk. So they

731
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: so they have some kind of awareness that they have

732
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,879
Speaker 1: a value, you know, exhibit that by their behavior. Does

733
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:17,800
Speaker 1: that ever, does that ever begin to reverse? Like oh yeah,

734
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: Like well they then okay, let like if it's an

735
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 1: old colony, and like we're gonna get set to take

736
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: off on for a new one. And then he goes like,

737
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: now I'm losing my desire to die because it's not

738
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: as important anymore, or is the only thing that just

739
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: increases increases increases, and then they die. No, it goes

740
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: both ways. That I had a couple of examples I

741
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: had twenty total colonies, eight of the three days and

742
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: nine of the nine two days, but I had three

743
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: that what we called queenless was the queen died for

744
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: whatever reason, either you know, something happened to an old age.

745
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: You know, we often don't know, maybe got pinched or

746
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: something happened. And these colonies have no we reductive potential

747
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: at all, because again, the workers can't lay eggs, and

748
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: so they have nothing to lose, nothing to defend except themselves,

749
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: and they're just gonna live out there their last of

750
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: their forty days of old age. And you go and

751
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: mess with those colonies, they won't do anything at all,

752
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: No way. Yeah, they they're like they're aware of what's

753
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 1: going on with the queen. Oh yeah, they know they

754
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: have no queen, and so they'll go, they'll go. Uh,

755
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: they were about two percent would come out and defend,

756
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: whereas I'd have sixty or seventy come out with some

757
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: of the ones that had the most to defend. So

758
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: they knew, why should I go and sacrifice myself for

759
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: my useless sisters when I could just hang out for

760
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: forty days. Yeah, just hang out and enjoy life as

761
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: best you can. I mean, what else is there to do?

762
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: You know everything? Man, that's where you want up. You

763
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: wind up in these like difficult where you're like, is

764
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: it that they know it? Or is it just somehow

765
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: that it is? They certainly behave as if they know it.

766
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: But there's an even more into honey Bees are fascinating,

767
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons I worked on a

768
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: lot and everybody else does. He got the males, on

769
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: the other hand, the males when they mate, they explode

770
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: their genitary explode into the queen and they fall off

771
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: paralyzed and die and get hauled away and eaten by

772
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: the ants. Back up, who does the male honey bees?

773
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: The drones as they call them, and say, asked the drone. Well,

774
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: so you gotta colony, it's got the drones. How many

775
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: of the drones are gonna have the opportunity to go

776
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: out like this? Well, they'll probably be two or three

777
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: thousand of these drones per summer in the colony, and

778
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 1: they probably get to mate with one or two queens

779
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: that most each one does well the whole colony worth.

780
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 1: And so if you figure a queen mates about eighteen

781
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: two six times, so let's say fifty males get a

782
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: chance out of two or three thousands to mate. And

783
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: so the males, no, this is a very rare opportunity.

784
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: You know, most of us are just horny and never

785
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: get a chance to find a mate. And so if

786
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: you get the chance to find a mate, what are

787
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: you thinking, I've succeeding. But I'm exploding and I'm rupturing

788
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: my whole whole system and being paralyzed and falling to

789
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: the ground. And of course the queen then turns around

790
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: and kicks the rest of your genitalia. It's like having

791
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: your your penis stuck inside ripped off and then go on.

792
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: Then she goes and rips it out and throws it away,

793
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: and so that's what the man and so his gym

794
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: till you come off. Yeah, you can actually hear it.

795
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: It's a pop if you're down on the ground near

796
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: and they explode. And then she discards it exactly, and

797
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: someone hauls this paralyzed, dying thing off when it falls

798
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: down to the ground, and then the aunts say, oh, yeah,

799
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: I'm nice, fat juicee be let's have dinner, and so

800
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: they hauled off to them their nest and need it. Wow,

801
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: So what is the male No, idea. Yeah, but have

802
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: you been just like you looked at their eagerness to

803
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: that you looked at you know, species eagerness to die

804
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,720
Speaker 1: for the cause? Um, have you? Is there any study

805
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 1: you can think of it would measure the male's awareness, Like,

806
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: are there males that get the opportunity and then bail?

807
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't know. Unfortunately, they're about twenty ft up, going

808
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: fourteen miles an hour and flying chasing this queen who's

809
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: buzzing around, and they there, yes, yes, don't say having sex.

810
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: I don't imagine they're they're mating up in the air. Yeah. See,

811
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: she's pretty clever. She figures, I don't want to get

812
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: a reject mail because that makes reject kids. So you

813
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: want to get the strongest, fittest male. So you're flying fast,

814
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: and the mail's gotta be able to catch up with

815
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: you and beat out all the other males that are

816
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: they all the other drones. So she's intentionally making it

817
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: hard for him to do it. So I guess he's

818
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: more thinking about the immediate I gotta catch it, rather

819
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: than think about, oh, I'm not going to make it

820
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: be alive much longer. I'm not sure where the beasts think,

821
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: but you know, that's if you analogize, that would be

822
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: probably how his behavior would be, that he's more worried

823
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: about catching the queen and worrying later about you know,

824
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: we're somewhat the same way with with people. I guess

825
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: I shouldn't go that way, but there seems to be

826
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in the mating part. Oops, I

827
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: got a kid, Now what you we don't really think

828
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: about the kid in too many cases. You know, once

829
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: we're married and that sort of thing, then we do

830
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: think about that. But before you're married and you're young,

831
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 1: you know, you don't really go to that depth of thought.

832
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: You're you're focused on the immediate. Yeah, in the back

833
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: of your mind, you're aware that exactly exactly, But that's

834
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: about as far as you take it. How did you

835
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: um and doing your work? Why did it become necessary

836
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: or and did it become necessary that you would start

837
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 1: exposing yourself to getting stung by everything? Basically it was

838
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: late in the scheme where I had had early I

839
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 1: wanted to expose just because I was trying to collect

840
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: enough information from It's kind of a statistical thing. You

841
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: can't use one example that's an anecdote or five or

842
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: ten to get the information I needed. I needed dozens

843
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: and dozens. So each time I've had a new species,

844
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I would go after that to kind of collect the

845
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: chemical and pain information about them. And so eventually I

846
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: got to us fifty or sixty different different types of

847
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: of seeing insects that did that. I'd go to meetings

848
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: and give presentations, a show a picture of a a

849
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: mud dauber wash dirt dauber washp would to have pretty

850
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: much around the world. It's a long, skinny thing about

851
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: an inch long. It's got a really narrow thread like waist,

852
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: and they're dead, dreadly death, deathly afraid of them in

853
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 1: some parts of Texas, Oh my god, these things are awful.

854
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: And have you ever been stung by one? And I said,

855
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: well no, why not? I said, well, because there's solitary

856
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: they just think spiders and paralyzing for their prey. There's

857
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: they have very few predators that are big, you know,

858
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: like birds or anything. Doesn't want to mess when they

859
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 1: don't really need a stinger for defense, so they probably

860
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: don't hurt much. And that's very hard to get into stinging,

861
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: so they probably don't hurt. And they'd say yeah, man, yeah,

862
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: you're just afraid of these things. It's about the third

863
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: or fourth time taunted. Yeah, third or fourth time I

864
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: got those sorts of questions, I said, oh damn, and

865
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: I guess I had to bite the bullet go test

866
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: my theory, which said would be about a one on

867
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: this very very low pain. So I went out to

868
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: a cattle tank where they water the cattle in the

869
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: desert of Arizona. There's no water for miles away. Mud

870
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 1: dauber wasts need mud. That's where they make their nests

871
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: out of, so I knew they'd be coming in there.

872
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: It's again, only the females that do the work. The

873
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: males just chase the females, so they're kind of useless basically.

874
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: So the females are all coming in. They could all sting,

875
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: and they were collecting mud balls. So I grabbed three

876
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: of them and I'd apply them to my arm. I'd

877
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: sticking colin and ladies, stay me, please, staing me, stink, stink,

878
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: come on, you can do it, you can do it,

879
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: you can do it. And I finally got a couple

880
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 1: of stings to to sting me, and they were what

881
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: i'd call underwhelming, just as I predicted, so like all

882
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 1: the Texans are all worked up about it, but then

883
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 1: you get stung and you weren't impressed. Yeah, it was

884
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: basically they're scary looking. I admit that they are scary

885
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: looking you look at them. And so there was a

886
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: number of things like that. The cicada killer was another one.

887
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: This was a little bit of serendipity, foolishness and opportunity.

888
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: I had never been stung by one, and it was

889
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: only one recorded literature history of a guy who got

890
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 1: stung underneath his thumbnail at the end, and that's one

891
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: of the more sensitive parts of your body underneath there.

892
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: He complained that it hurt a lot, but then he said,

893
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: it really wasn't that bad a thing compared to you know,

894
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 1: something like a honey bee or something like that. But

895
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: it's just this kind of passing thing in you know,

896
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: really old paper, and I'm not in sure why you

897
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: put that in. Today they wouldn't even lie to put

898
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: this chafe in the side in there. But it was nice.

899
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: We got a little bit of natural history. So then

900
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: I thought, well, this is probably it's big. It's you know,

901
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: about two inches long, So how much is this thing

902
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: going to hurt again. I was asked about that, and

903
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: I thought, well, I've worked on for years and years

904
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: and they don't sting you. So I went out one day.

905
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have a net or anything, and I saw

906
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: one on a flower, so I'm grab and it stung

907
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: the poem my hand, which incidentally has more pain than

908
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: most other areas because we have all the sensory nerves there.

909
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: Palms are very sensitive to touch and that sort of thing,

910
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: so we need a very good nervous system and that

911
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: part of our anatomy. And it hurt about a one

912
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: and a half, as I called it, less than a honeybee,

913
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: more than a sweatbee, more than a dirt daub or wass,

914
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 1: but not as much as a honeybee. And this is

915
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: a great big thing. And again that was a prediction.

916
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: It's just mom doing everything on our own. If you

917
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: had a colony of things like that. Analogy being the

918
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: giant hornets of Asia Japan, we have hundreds of them

919
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: in a nest and they're the same size. Those do

920
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: hurt you when you say you gave it a one

921
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: and a half. Explain the scale you eventually came up with. Yeah,

922
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: the scale, it's kind of it's it's very hard to

923
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: You can't put an electrode in in the skin or

924
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: in a nerve or anything and get a like a

925
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: galvanometer we do in high school physics class with the

926
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: needle swings over and you can record how far it

927
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: swings and say, oh, that implies this strange. I can't

928
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: do anything like that with with pain, so it's just relative.

929
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: So I made a pain scale of four for one

930
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: to three and four, and I said, well, we need

931
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: to have a comparative because the pain you experience might

932
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: be different from the pain I experienced, saying, maybe you're

933
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 1: ten times tougher than I am. So if if you

934
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: get stung by a honeybee and you call that a

935
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: two by definition, I get stung by a honeybee, and

936
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: I call that a two for me. So even though

937
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: it may hurt me ten times more than you, I'm

938
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: normalizing it to myself. So next time I get stung by,

939
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,880
Speaker 1: say a sweatbee, which is the one, I'd say it's

940
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: a whole lot less than the two. And one of

941
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: the ways you can tell the differences you hold up

942
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 1: the two and ask somebody which one would you prefer

943
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: to get stung by if you had to, if there's

944
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: a gun to your head, Oh, I'll take that one

945
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: for sure, absolutely, that one without indicate a strong recognition

946
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: that that one hurts a lot less and kind of

947
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: on the semi quantitative arena. What I do is they say,

948
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: it's like an exponential scale of a two is ten

949
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: times more painful than a than a one, and three

950
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: is tend to the Richter scale for earthquakes, exactly seven

951
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: is ten times worse than the six. Exactly the same

952
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: sort of idea, And you say, how you can you

953
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: can match that? Is? Okay, take a fire ant, which

954
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: is something that readily stings numerous times. You get one

955
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: fire it kind of smarts. It's kind of a one.

956
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 1: You get ten fire ants. They kind of ladies on

957
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: on que all sting, and all ten I'm stinging. It

958
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: seems that's the way they are. They aren't really that way,

959
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: but that's the way it seems to poor victim. When

960
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 1: you get stung ten fire ants stings heard about as

961
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: much as one honey bee sting. You get to ten

962
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,359
Speaker 1: honey bee stings they heard about as much as one

963
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 1: harvest RNT, which is a three, and you get ten

964
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: harvest ants, and that's maybe as much as one bullet

965
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: and or transa hawk, which is a four, so you

966
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: can see, you know, it's it's not a linear scale

967
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: like one is half of two, which is you know,

968
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: half of three, and it's more tenfold difference. When you

969
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: started subjecting yourself to getting stung by everything, whether did

970
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: you get to where there were some things you were

971
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: nerves that you were reluctant to want to go get

972
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: stung by, or early on in my career, before I

973
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: actually had concept with the sting pain scale, I was

974
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: still just working on the chemistry. I didn't really get

975
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: the pain scale formulated my mind until three So three

976
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: years later, I was in Japan and they had these

977
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: huge mandarin hornets. Everybody's seeing them on YouTube and such.

978
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: They're about two inches long, big boxy, blocky things with

979
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 1: a bright orange head and orange stripes in their abdomen.

980
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: These things are enormous. Now it is studying them for

981
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 1: the venom. They've got a lot of venom. And I

982
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,080
Speaker 1: didn't want to get stung. I mean, who wants to

983
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 1: get stung by some saucy on on wings that's two

984
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: inches long? Boy? I mean, this thing is kind of scary.

985
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: So I managed to collect two colonies with the help

986
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 1: of Japanese who were very protective of me. They didn't want,

987
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, there their colleague from the US to beginning

988
00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: stung up and say these Japanese mal treated me or

989
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: anything like that. So they were very covetous and made

990
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: sure I didn't get stung. And I was all suited up,

991
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: had all those students. Students are expendable, so they had

992
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: them behind me. Within the second nets, they're catching anybody

993
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: cut behind me, could you know, attack me from the back.

994
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: So the long story shot was I managed to get

995
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 1: all all the members of both colonies and never get stung.

996
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: So in retrospect, I can't say, gosh, I wish I

997
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: had been stung, because everybody asked about how much does

998
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: the Mandard hornet has say well, I don't really know.

999
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: I've never been stung by one. We don't have them

1000
00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: in the US or North. So to this day you

1001
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: have been stung by it, that's right. And so I say, well,

1002
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: if somebody wants to fund me for a junk at

1003
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: Japan or China for four thousand dollars to go and

1004
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: get stung, fund me there and I can do that

1005
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: and continue my research on a free trip, and all

1006
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: I have to do is get stung once. But my

1007
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 1: prediction is, you know, predicting based on the biology and

1008
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: natural history of these things, would be like a yellow jacket,

1009
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: which is a two, except a whole lot bigger than

1010
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: the yellow deck. It's ten times. It was so bigger.

1011
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: So my prediction is it would be about a three,

1012
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: you know, ten yellow ten a little yellow jackets equal

1013
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: to one humongous yellow jacket like relative. So that's what

1014
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: I would predict. Have you traveled to other places to

1015
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,960
Speaker 1: get stung? Oh yeah, I'm just like specifically win there

1016
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: to get stung. Well, no, not to get stung, to

1017
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 1: collect the venom of whoever was there. I I went

1018
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: to Malaysia. We had a nice study there which was

1019
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting thing. I found these ants that

1020
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: live in trees and they turned out to be very

1021
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: mild in disposition and they didn't hurt very much. They

1022
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: brought him back to the lab and looked at their chemistry.

1023
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 1: My god, they're incredibly toxic. They're one of the most

1024
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: most toxic insects I've ever run into. So they're The

1025
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: question I ask is why if you're so toxic do

1026
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: you not hurt? I mean, normally, if you're a big, strong,

1027
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: dangerous thing you want to address, Hey, I'm big, strong

1028
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: danger don't mess with me, and you you'd want it

1029
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: to be painful and hurt, and they don't do this.

1030
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: So that's one of the you know, the more you

1031
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: do research, you have many questions you can answer, and

1032
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: that's one of the ones that I got there. But

1033
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: I went to South Africa specifically to study they have

1034
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: a whole what I call the Big five of of ants.

1035
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: You know, of course into the Big five exactly, hippos

1036
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: and elephants and uh ryanos that's the last when Yeah,

1037
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: so that these Big five they're good whopping sized dance

1038
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: and they were talked about and some of the old

1039
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: literature and the naturalists being really really fierce and scary

1040
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: and all this. So I said, well, that should be

1041
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: a good source of venom chemistry and good good things

1042
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: to study. And so I found all those. It turned

1043
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: out most of them really didn't hurt that much. I

1044
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: think it's just the problem that you relate how much

1045
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: painfulness is relative to your experience, and if your experience

1046
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: is mostly mild, things. Then the least mild of them

1047
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: is really hurts, yeah, whereas the least model is about

1048
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: a third or a half as much as anything in

1049
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: the New World actually has the most painful stinging things

1050
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: by far. We're lucky, yeah, especially if you go to

1051
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: Amazoni's or someplace fun like that. And so the South Africans,

1052
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: relative to their experiences, these things really hurt. But compared

1053
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 1: to what I'd run into here in North America and

1054
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: South America, they were pretty mild. And so all five

1055
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: of them. So North America has worse stinging stuff than Africa.

1056
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, as far as insects go, Africa is kind

1057
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: of kind of a little doll actually in some regards

1058
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: when it comes to stinging. Yeah. They have they have

1059
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: these uh what they call them firetail wasps, the long

1060
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: skinny kind of tanny wasps that they have there maybe

1061
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: a two, the most social one that's about as high

1062
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: as they get. And they have the metal belli ant,

1063
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: which is this army like thing that goes out and

1064
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: raids termites and there around it two maybe a little

1065
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: bit less. And then they have the giant stink ant,

1066
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: which is an enormous an. It's about as big as

1067
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: a bullet ant. And that's at most the two of

1068
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: their pretty minor two chicken shit ants, Yeah, exactly, and

1069
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: most of them, well, they will stinging if you mess

1070
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: with them, but you have to kind of mess with them.

1071
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: And and they really weren't all that painful. The uh,

1072
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: the most painful. I ran intos what I call the

1073
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: glossy ants. They're kind of a purply sheen to them.

1074
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: They weren't listed anywhere on the list, but those things

1075
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: really kind of smarted and so I, you know, just

1076
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: go to place, and I went to Australia to study

1077
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: their jack jumpers and their bulldog ants and got stung

1078
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: by all of those. Of course, it's hard not to

1079
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: mess with them. Were they pretty nasty? No, they were

1080
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: kind of a sharp, clean pain, kind of like a

1081
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: needle stick or a small knife stick. But they weren't burning.

1082
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: You know, burning is like a match or an ember

1083
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: from fire pops explodes your your fire blows an ember

1084
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: on your this hot, fiery feeling. This is more of

1085
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,919
Speaker 1: a clean piercing, you know, almost chemical feeling that I had.

1086
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: What were the circumstances when you went and got stung

1087
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: by a bullet A well, basically it was again desperation.

1088
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: That's when most of my stings occurred. I was in

1089
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: Amazonas and near Bay Lange. What is the word you're

1090
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 1: using amazonas the Amazon? Yeah, Amazon, it's just a territory

1091
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: around where the Amazon base. That term maybe maybe it's

1092
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: Latin or Spanish or Portus, I don't know. I just

1093
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: kind of used up in Amazon area and it was

1094
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: getting near nightfall is about five o'clock and I was

1095
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: on half a degree south latitude. So if you ever

1096
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: been in the tropics, when the sun goes down, it

1097
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: goes down ten minutes. It goes from light to black.

1098
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: You can't know nothing, like if you're in northern you know,

1099
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: Montana or Alaska or northern Canada. Yeah, twilight sometimes for hours,

1100
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: not so they're so here was. I had an hour

1101
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: to go and I finally found this, this bullet ant colony,

1102
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: and I had an assistant Himarrow Hemorrow, was the toughest

1103
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: guy I'd ever run into. The Hemorrow would stick his

1104
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: hand into fire ant colonies and grab mounds them and

1105
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: stuff them in a bag because because you know, we

1106
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: we were collecting venom. I was with my professor and

1107
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 1: we were collecting venoms and ants of anything, those stinging

1108
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: We didn't care what it was pretty much. And I

1109
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: had this little kind of trowel that i'd care along,

1110
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: little plastic thing that's light and easy to transport, you know, overseas.

1111
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: I'm digging up this colony and trying to get these

1112
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: these bullet ants to come out. I'd run into a

1113
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: root or something like that where I couldn't dig two,

1114
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, Marrow, where is Merrow? Where is

1115
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: her arrow? He's back there twenty ft behind me, and

1116
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: I'd say here, I get up here and get this

1117
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: root out of here. He'd run up and give a

1118
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: whack or two and then retreat. What is wrong? Hemarrow

1119
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: is a man of steel wise anyway. So then I

1120
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: was a little bit in my naivete. I had this

1121
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: glass jar about it, a court jar. I'd put telcum

1122
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: powder around the top so the ants couldn't crawl out.

1123
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: They'd slip and fall back down. Yeah. It works pretty

1124
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:06,520
Speaker 1: much until they wear off all the telcom potty and

1125
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: then they get out. But man, that's a hot tip. Yeah.

1126
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: But then I had these long tweezers. Theyre foot long.

1127
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: I was grabbing them and trying to get them in.

1128
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: I found out first of all that bullet ants are

1129
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: very fast, and they're very sticky legg They could stick

1130
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: to two chromed tweezers and crawl up. So the next thing,

1131
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: I got four or five of them attacking you all once,

1132
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: and you're trying to say, how am I going to

1133
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 1: fend off all the They have a colony with three thousands,

1134
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: so a lot of a lot of ants there. And

1135
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 1: when you get them kind of rolled up, they take

1136
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,600
Speaker 1: umbridge at this and come after you. And so I'm

1137
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,919
Speaker 1: trying to get these things in and it's getting dark

1138
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: and we're having to leave soon, and I thought I

1139
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 1: may never see these things again. I don't know this

1140
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: the first time I've seen them. So I got again.

1141
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 1: So I speed it up. Sure enough, the faster you

1142
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 1: go and the more careless you get, the sloppier you get.

1143
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: And yes, you will get nailed. And that's what happened.

1144
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:11,840
Speaker 1: Have you uh been z by a Transula wasp? Oh? Yeah?

1145
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: Is that is that a whopper? Definitely? Absolutely? What can

1146
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: you explain their life history a little bit? Yeah? Transla

1147
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: hawks are they're a big spider wasp and what they

1148
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,600
Speaker 1: do is they they catch a trantula. They hunt one

1149
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: down and they sting it and paralyze it in a

1150
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: permanent paralysis. Is the thing will never die until it

1151
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: dries out. It will eventually die of either dehydration or starvation,

1152
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: but it doesn't kill it to the venom the keeps

1153
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 1: of fresh meat. It's kind of like having your venison

1154
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 1: in a cooler. You can keep it over winter, and

1155
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: as long as you keep it in a cooler, you

1156
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: can feed your family for months on end. So the

1157
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 1: same principle that they have there. You have a paralyzed

1158
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 1: tranchling the one egg on it, just one, and that

1159
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: that egg hatches into a larva, which ends. Doesn't you

1160
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: got stash that transl somewhere? Oh yeah, which she forgot

1161
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 1: that part? Yes, I mybody most that he was camping

1162
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 1: one time and said he saw one fly past. I

1163
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 1: don't want to ruin his story. I feel like this

1164
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: is what he told me, he saw one fly passed.

1165
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: Then in a while later here comes out something bit dragon,

1166
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: a trangeler back the way he'd come from. Who could

1167
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: be it might have been the same one or a

1168
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: different one. But what happens is they paralyze him and

1169
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: then they either put them in a burrow that the

1170
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: trench la hawk wasp makes digs a burrow down and

1171
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: puts in the bottom of the cell, or if it's

1172
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: near where the trench as a burrow. They haven't naturally

1173
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: dig a hole in the ground his own hole, yeah,

1174
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: and then just put it in its own hole, which

1175
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: is a lot less work. I mean, I would do

1176
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 1: that if I were the wasps being lazy, but they do.

1177
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: You know, those two different things got one egg on it,

1178
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, one egg. So what happens is the egg

1179
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: then hatches and it starts eating the blood. They have

1180
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: an open system, not like us with veins. They just

1181
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: have a open cavity and you can just keep sucking

1182
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 1: the blood. And then when you get a little bigger,

1183
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 1: you start eating the fat. And when you get a

1184
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 1: little bigger, you start eating the reproductive system and the gut. Yeah.

1185
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,000
Speaker 1: And of course none of these things are life support

1186
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,479
Speaker 1: systems for the tranches, so it's still alive. When you

1187
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: get to the fifth mold, fourth mold into the fifth

1188
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: end star. Each each different larva doubles or triples the

1189
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,200
Speaker 1: size of the previous one, so you can see the

1190
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: last one is many times bigger than all of the

1191
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,720
Speaker 1: four younger ones together. When the last one gets it,

1192
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,559
Speaker 1: goes on this ravenous gluttony and just eats everything, the nerves,

1193
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: the brain, you know, yeah, finally eats everything and it

1194
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 1: gives one. Doesn't want to make a live action movie.

1195
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: I heard how they're going to remake bamb We feel

1196
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: like they should remake a do a live action movie

1197
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: about this exactly and kind of nature kids. You can imagine,

1198
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, the larger than at that point gives one

1199
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: big earth. But really, rather than that, it takes one

1200
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: big dump and then becomes a pupa and spinds a

1201
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 1: cell and then molds into the adult, goes out and

1202
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: kills one, or goes out and catches one. But it's

1203
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: even more interesting than that. Their life has to be

1204
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: quite fascinating. The trans is come in various sizes, you know,

1205
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 1: just like people who have some of that are big

1206
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,879
Speaker 1: and some that are little. Males are scrawny and runty.

1207
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: They spend all the time chasing females. There's not much

1208
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 1: meat on them, whereas the females are big and fat

1209
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 1: and juicy because you know, they have to lay a

1210
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: bunch of eggs and all that so the Transla hawk

1211
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: not being particularly fussy. If you find a transla, you

1212
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 1: want to capitalize on whatever translor you find. So a

1213
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 1: little scrawny thing you say, uh, well, you are what

1214
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: you eat. So if you're a little scrawny thing, you're

1215
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: getting a little scrawny transla hawk. Wath A little scrawny

1216
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 1: female transla hawk is worthless. She can't overcome a big, fat,

1217
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,759
Speaker 1: juicy transla. It's not big enough, strong enough. But a male.

1218
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: All a male does is transmit sperm to the female.

1219
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: He does not be bigger, little, or anything else. So

1220
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 1: then she'll pick a male for her offspring if it's

1221
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 1: a little one and she she can do this, which

1222
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: fortunately we can't. And how they do that is a

1223
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:21,799
Speaker 1: male is haploid. It's it's like half the chromosomes, whereas

1224
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:26,560
Speaker 1: the female has is a double chromosome as twice as many.

1225
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: So she fertilizes the egger she wants. A female. She

1226
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,679
Speaker 1: has a sphincter which lets two or three sperm out

1227
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: as the egg is passing down the over duct hold.

1228
01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 1: She's able to put her own sperm on her own

1229
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: egg that she got from a male before she Yeah,

1230
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: she has a storage she mates and holds that sperm,

1231
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: and it releases that sperm out onto the egg when

1232
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: she wants to, yeah, and set a choice around her body. Yeah,

1233
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: So what she does is it's a little scrawny one,

1234
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,800
Speaker 1: then she makes a male because they're worthless. They can

1235
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: mate with just as well as the big one, more

1236
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: or less, and she saves the females for the big,

1237
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 1: juicy ones. Me, it's a good thing we don't have

1238
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: that ability yet. I mean, we'd end up like China.

1239
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 1: For a while, I was having a shortage of women

1240
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: because they were well disposing, I guess putting nicely, too

1241
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 1: many female babies, and they're getting like ten or more

1242
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 1: boys than girls. And they found out then they weren't

1243
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:33,400
Speaker 1: enough wives for them. So the problem there is you

1244
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: have all these males running without mates. They get pretty

1245
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 1: disruptive and started messing up society. So it's a bad

1246
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: idea to have in balance of sex is at least

1247
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: in our society. Man, I would love the bow if

1248
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,360
Speaker 1: you could just know the decision making process, so it

1249
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: could be a transla hawks that maybe one nobody has

1250
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: actually done the numbers. It might not be a one

1251
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: to one ratio. It might be there's a lot more

1252
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: squawny trance as this, which would bias you towards too

1253
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: many males. Or it could be maybe there's a lot

1254
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 1: of big, fat, juicy ones, but you get a lot.

1255
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a long lifespan out of tarantula, and

1256
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: so it kind of makes me very interested to know

1257
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: after a couple of seasons dealing with tarantula hawks, if

1258
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: you're older, tarantulas have developed a little more defense towards

1259
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: those that That's the funny thing about the trancellor, which

1260
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense of the human mind. We cannot grasp

1261
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: at least I cannot grasp this concept. Here, this huge

1262
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: spider often eight times heavier than the Transla hawk wash.

1263
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 1: You're a big whopper. You have these huge, massive fangs

1264
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: which are really strong. Have you ever seen a Transla catch,

1265
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 1: say a nice juicy American cockroach. You hear this craunch

1266
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 1: snap and it just shatters the the cockroach, and then

1267
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:59,679
Speaker 1: of course it becomes dinner. And you say, well, this equipment,

1268
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,080
Speaker 1: why doesn't it fight back, Why doesn't it try to

1269
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:06,759
Speaker 1: actually kill the trench La hawk wasp? It doesn't, And

1270
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: and one or two percent of the cases they will

1271
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 1: try to fight back, and almost all those they lose anyway,

1272
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:15,840
Speaker 1: But you think if you have a one or two

1273
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: percent chance of winning, that's better than a zero pert chance.

1274
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 1: What they do is they try to run away, and

1275
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 1: they try to hide, so they'll run out of their burrow.

1276
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: The trans kwas will go down in the borough where

1277
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 1: the translas chase, the trench l out because it's hard

1278
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 1: to maneuver in a tight burrow like that. We can

1279
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: get your stinger underneath and paralyze it. So some our

1280
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 1: other the trench is a dumb enough not to stay there.

1281
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: It would be difficult for the wasp to get it.

1282
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,520
Speaker 1: It goes roaring out and it tries to hide someplace,

1283
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 1: and the wasp of course comes out and finds it.

1284
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: Because all trenches have a smell of you can detect

1285
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,600
Speaker 1: if you're a wasp. I mean, we don't smell them that.

1286
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,959
Speaker 1: We're not making a diet of translates, so we don't

1287
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 1: we don't have that that ability, and so the trans

1288
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 1: is very, very passive, and it's always one of these

1289
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: things that you know, to my sense of logic, I

1290
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: would you know, fight to the end, you know, hope

1291
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 1: the heck that I'm I'm that lucky one that gets

1292
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: a bit to think that that's what we would do. Yeah,

1293
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 1: you know you might be able to get right behind

1294
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: the neck. There's a yeah, exactly. I haven't done the tests.

1295
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: I probably should have because it didn't really relate to

1296
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 1: what I was doing of seeing if the transer can

1297
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 1: tell the difference between a male and a female transla

1298
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:39,440
Speaker 1: hawk because of course the male can't sting and represents

1299
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 1: no risk, but it does represent a dinner if you

1300
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: can get to punch him, which you probably could. I

1301
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: haven't done that, just too many things to do in life.

1302
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,839
Speaker 1: That's a good project for one of the young budding

1303
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: junior high listeners who wants to do a science. That's

1304
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: exactly what came to mind was was junior high, like,

1305
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: how much of your career has just dropped? And two

1306
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:03,759
Speaker 1: bugs and a container they're like, okay, which one's gonna

1307
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: win exactly, and that that could be something you could.

1308
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 1: You could test a few of the trances with males first,

1309
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: because if you test them with the female, you may

1310
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 1: not get to repeat it with a male. Yeah, and

1311
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: then do your X number ten of each or something

1312
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: and see see if the transer behaves differently. I don't know.

1313
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 1: I had to add a question for you on bald

1314
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: faced hornets. Seems to be something I run into um

1315
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:34,280
Speaker 1: And I could be totally misidentifying these these um they're

1316
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 1: pretty hard to miss identify. They're big in black and white. Yeah,

1317
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:41,679
Speaker 1: and uh run into them on trails all the time,

1318
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,959
Speaker 1: oftentimes on horseback. And then they come out and horses

1319
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 1: don't like them. No, they do not know they do not.

1320
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 1: But we have this big mule and she we tied

1321
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:54,840
Speaker 1: her up at the end of a very long ride,

1322
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: and she kicked a nest. It took took me a

1323
01:15:59,080 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: while to figure out was going on. The mule was

1324
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: freaking out. I ran over there. Of course, there's hornets everywhere,

1325
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,920
Speaker 1: and I'm tighter and ran her over to a different

1326
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: treaty to get her away from the nest. And then

1327
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 1: I was watching and trying to remove hornets, and it

1328
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: appeared to me that some were burrowing through the hair

1329
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 1: and biting, and others were stinging, biting with their mouth

1330
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: their mandibles. They have pretty sharp mandibles. They can they

1331
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: can shred a most any insects. Just cut them up

1332
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 1: kind of like meat cleavers. They they're really pretty good

1333
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: at that. I haven't actually heard that I was seen that,

1334
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,720
Speaker 1: but I would guess if I had to speculate just

1335
01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: in what was going on, that it could be the

1336
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 1: ones that were biting had already spent most of their

1337
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 1: venom stinging them, so they they It's kind of like

1338
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,400
Speaker 1: if you're a soldier and you have a have a

1339
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:56,439
Speaker 1: your rifle and you have a bandet on the end,

1340
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna try to shoot the enemy first until you

1341
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 1: run out of bullets. They're gonna try to stab him

1342
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: with the band at I've seen the movie The Alimo. Yeah, exactly, exactly, Yeah,

1343
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 1: so you can imagine the same sort of thing is

1344
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,759
Speaker 1: again the bald faced hornet. She has no reproductive ability

1345
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: to herself, the individual workers. She's defending mom, the queen,

1346
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: and so biting helps. Honey Bees will do that too.

1347
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 1: Once they have stung and lost their stinger in you,

1348
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:26,960
Speaker 1: we know they've lost At that point, they'll come and

1349
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 1: they'll bite on your eyelids or your eyelashes and try

1350
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: to pull on them, and they'll try to crawl in

1351
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: your ears and bite your ears or try to Yeah, exactly,

1352
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,599
Speaker 1: and they Yes, I had one. I had wondered if

1353
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 1: I was witnessing observing two different some were stinging and

1354
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: some were eating. We have another project for junior high kid.

1355
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,599
Speaker 1: You know, when you're talking about the way the trans

1356
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 1: a little hawk, you know, paralyze the transl and keeps

1357
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 1: it around for a long time. How many days go by?

1358
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 1: Like like how many days that thing alive? The translate

1359
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:05,680
Speaker 1: was alive for well, there have been a couple of

1360
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 1: cases where people have had them in the lab where

1361
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: they either the egg died or the experiment or removed

1362
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 1: the egg, and I lived two or three months. In

1363
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: one case, a fella was artificially trying to rehydrate the translate.

1364
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure I did that. Whether he was

1365
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:28,559
Speaker 1: just injecting water into its mouth or whether it's into

1366
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 1: its body, I don't I don't remember that trying to

1367
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,639
Speaker 1: keep it alive. I just try to keep it from

1368
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 1: drying out to see how long it would last. I

1369
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: think he got like five or six months something like that,

1370
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: hopefully really intention of seeing if it would come back. Well, yeah,

1371
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 1: that's the whole idea man, when he made it back,

1372
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: if that trans made it back out there where he's from.

1373
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: And Pete were like where are you been? Yeah, dude,

1374
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,040
Speaker 1: what a story to tell. I'm guilty of doing that

1375
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: to a certain extent myself. I was studying the green

1376
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 1: and knolls, you know, the little a little what they

1377
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 1: call chameleons. They're actually in Annoala live in the southeast.

1378
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 1: I was stinging them to see if they're more resistant

1379
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: then say mice are, because they're a lizard, which is

1380
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 1: a different physiology and metabolism than than say a mammal.

1381
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: And I got a couple of individuals that were completely paralyzed,

1382
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:21,920
Speaker 1: but I could tell they were alive, and it's still

1383
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:25,160
Speaker 1: the gloss on their eyes, and they could move their

1384
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 1: tongue a little bit. And I said, well, is this harvestrant?

1385
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 1: Then I'm gonna wear off eventually. How how irreversible is it?

1386
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:36,759
Speaker 1: And so it went on for weeks and I would

1387
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,560
Speaker 1: open its mouth and put water in the mouth to

1388
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: keep the lizard hydrated. In this case, it succeeded. It

1389
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: could manage to drink it, and slowly, after two or

1390
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: three weeks it started getting a little flick flicked on

1391
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: its legs, and then a bunch of about a week later,

1392
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: it got so it could completely recover. And you know,

1393
01:19:54,360 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: live happily ever after. So so it isn't it is possible,

1394
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 1: except the tranchula doesn't have that good luck to be

1395
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: a lizard than a transla. I guess does the transila

1396
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 1: have like a pain index for itself? Like does the translate?

1397
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 1: We like? And then and then while it's while it's

1398
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,400
Speaker 1: feel I don't know. It's hard to tell. It's sort

1399
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,640
Speaker 1: of like, you know, if we're under anesthesia in a

1400
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 1: coma and we're slowly rotting away, are we feeling pain?

1401
01:20:31,200 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 1: And you know why I need jerk reaction to be

1402
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: since I'm not conscious, I'm not feeling pain. But of course,

1403
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: how do you know what the tranch is conscious or not?

1404
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: I now this opens up so many like this discussion

1405
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: opens up so many ethical questions. We need to get

1406
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 1: electrodes into the primary gangley on the brain of a

1407
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: transition and have a normal one where we can see

1408
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: whatever the wave patterns like what we have in our brains,

1409
01:20:57,040 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 1: so we know what a normal tranch is like. And

1410
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 1: then do this same thing and one that's being paralyzed

1411
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 1: and pinched leg or something like that, and see that

1412
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: we get a spike and some kind of signal in

1413
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 1: the electrodes in the brain. Have you watched the film

1414
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. I think that's when

1415
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: I miss I'm not sure. It sounds like a good

1416
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 1: movie to see though. Oh, it's Phenomenal's about a man

1417
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:24,680
Speaker 1: who's unresponsive. It's about like the inner life of an

1418
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 1: unresponsive man. Yeah. That that's the same guy that made

1419
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 1: Before Nightfalls. Um, what's his name is? He used to

1420
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: be like Julian Schnabble. I think, wasn't it good job

1421
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 1: down there? Philis on it? You just do that off

1422
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 1: the top of your top of your head. Um. Have

1423
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,960
Speaker 1: you read a book, uh, in the Heart of the Sea. No,

1424
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,559
Speaker 1: I guess I'm pretty pathetic in that these are completely

1425
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,559
Speaker 1: different realms. But the reason I'm bringing it up is

1426
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 1: the trantula suffering away there or not? Um in the

1427
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: Heart of the Sea. It's a it's a book about

1428
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 1: the whale ship Essex. The tragic the whaleship Essex. But

1429
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: when they would go out whaling, they would stop at

1430
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:09,120
Speaker 1: the Galapagos and well they would stock up. They just

1431
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 1: flip them over down in the hold of the ship

1432
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: on their backs keep alive for months, ma'n. Pretty barbaric, Yeah, well,

1433
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: or or they're like a trench lock. There were no

1434
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 1: different than trange locks. Of course, we we pretty much

1435
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: assumed the tortoise was conscious at that point because it

1436
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,680
Speaker 1: wasn't paralleled just on its back. No, keep him in

1437
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 1: the hold for months like that. But then you know,

1438
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,639
Speaker 1: um they got their come uppings and that because that

1439
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,799
Speaker 1: ship was sunk by a whale, good for the whale,

1440
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: and um, you know, all kinds of cannibalism ensued. There's

1441
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:48,559
Speaker 1: a there's a great line, my favorite line in that book,

1442
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 1: as there's later as someone's you know, meet someone meets

1443
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: a guy who was on the Essex and he asked him,

1444
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, I can't read the guy the guy's name.

1445
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 1: He says, Oh, did you know Dale Johnson? And the

1446
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: man replies, UM, no him, I had him. I'm gonna

1447
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:10,519
Speaker 1: say it wasn't very tasty, but it's a great book.

1448
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:15,919
Speaker 1: The movie, man, do not waste your time. So chemically,

1449
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 1: what's going on? Like what's the most like a yellow jacket.

1450
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 1: I used to have a mild yellow jacket allergy, and

1451
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:25,599
Speaker 1: I was looking why does it hurts damn bad? Like

1452
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: like what is it doing to you? And basically what

1453
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 1: it is as kind ins wasp kindons they call him

1454
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: or or hornet kindons, and it kind of is kind

1455
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,920
Speaker 1: of like Brady kind in, which is a uh hormone

1456
01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 1: that affects the heart and it makes extreme pain and

1457
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 1: it also causes stronger contractions and various things that it

1458
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 1: does to the heart. But the thing I focus on

1459
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:52,600
Speaker 1: is that it causes extreme pain. So the wasp just

1460
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: hijacked the chemistry. I don't think they. I think they

1461
01:23:56,120 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: independently evolved it. Basically, it just kindons make pine, so

1462
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: they have a lot of kinds in their venom and

1463
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 1: that's what causes the pain. It's just a hormone. No,

1464
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 1: it's just a polypeptide in other words, about eleven to

1465
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 1: nineteen amino acids, whereas Brady kind in the original one

1466
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 1: I forget, it's something around ten, maybe off one or two.

1467
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 1: So they're the Brady kind is a hormone in us

1468
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 1: and in mammals, but wast kinds are just the similar structure.

1469
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 1: Get a little bit longer protein, which probably makes it

1470
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:36,479
Speaker 1: more stable, so it hurts longer and lasts longer, and

1471
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: that's what causes the pain. But there's things they could

1472
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 1: deliver it to you that it might not hurt probably, yeah,

1473
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,320
Speaker 1: like if they stung an insect or something like that,

1474
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 1: because it probably wouldn't hurt that we don't know, you know.

1475
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 1: That's it's one of the things. There's so many questions

1476
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: out there and there's so little time to work on

1477
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,880
Speaker 1: all of them. But we know in your case kind

1478
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 1: is don't cause allergy. So they have other components in

1479
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,639
Speaker 1: their phosphor LIGHTPAS, which is a great, big enzyme, huge

1480
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:10,400
Speaker 1: monstrous enzyme, which is again a protein. What it does

1481
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: it breaks up the lipid membrane around cells. Cells have

1482
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 1: a kind of a fatty membrane around them and they're

1483
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 1: mostly liquid and the inside, and it breaks up that membrane.

1484
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: So phosphor lightpase helps destroy and do damage. And so

1485
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: that's what the main allergy and that that you would

1486
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 1: probably have for your allergic to them. They also have,

1487
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,640
Speaker 1: how you want, a dase, which is a a spreading

1488
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 1: agent kind of like a detergent that helps loosen up

1489
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:43,040
Speaker 1: connective tissue and make a path so the the goodies

1490
01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 1: of the venom can get into their So it's like

1491
01:25:45,520 --> 01:25:48,000
Speaker 1: a lot of complexity. Yeah, And and those are the

1492
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 1: two main ones that are being a wasp or yellow jacket.

1493
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: So what what's a like when you get bit by

1494
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 1: a fire ant? Like, chemically, what's happening to you there?

1495
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 1: You know? The fire answer are really the the odd

1496
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: ball of all odd alls of the stinging insects. They

1497
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 1: have propuritine alkaloids which are very similar to the the

1498
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: water hyacinths or whatever it was called that Socrates had

1499
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,240
Speaker 1: to drink to commit suicide, hemlock water hemlock. That's why

1500
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: I knew as close something was wrong there and their

1501
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: relative to that, and they're neurotoxins, they're cytotoxins, they're they're hemorrhagens. There,

1502
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:25,600
Speaker 1: they do a whole lot of really nasty things to you.

1503
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:30,440
Speaker 1: But it's a strictly simple alkaloid, which is a organic molecule,

1504
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:34,120
Speaker 1: has nitrogen, and it's not a protein, it's not amino acid,

1505
01:26:34,160 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: it's not a fat, it's it's an alkaloid typical of

1506
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 1: what most bitter things are alkaloids, And so it's very

1507
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: unusual in that it has these these alkaloids which are

1508
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: very effective against prey. And again you ask the question,

1509
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: what's going on when you get allergic to them? Because

1510
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: alkaloids are not allergenic. They don't cause allergy. What happens

1511
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 1: they have one or two percent again a phosphorlite base

1512
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:03,120
Speaker 1: our old friend and how Rana is just tying it

1513
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: a little bit to this, and that's what you get

1514
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 1: allergic to. Why they're in there, who knows, Probably just

1515
01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:13,519
Speaker 1: a legacy of their their father genetic history. They came

1516
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,639
Speaker 1: from some ancestor which had these components of their venom.

1517
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: They inventor evolved a new system, which is the alkaloids.

1518
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 1: So it's probably just the residual leftover, which probably does

1519
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 1: no functional use anymore for the fire in but it

1520
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,960
Speaker 1: does of course cause allergy. And so so they're they're

1521
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:37,439
Speaker 1: an unusual situation. It's it's you got into this in

1522
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 1: your book a little bit. And it's a thing that's

1523
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 1: kind of puzzling to me. Is let's say you grab

1524
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:47,800
Speaker 1: like I'm just finally getting over a burn I had

1525
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,000
Speaker 1: in my hand. Okay, I want to grab a thing

1526
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,680
Speaker 1: on a wood stove, and those hot so burns like

1527
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:57,600
Speaker 1: holy hell, and it's damaging you, like the pain is

1528
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 1: telling you that you are damaging your skin, and you

1529
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,639
Speaker 1: pulled away and the skin blisters and scabs. It gets

1530
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: infected and it's like lo and behold, like wow, good thing.

1531
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:11,040
Speaker 1: I got the pain signal to alert me that I

1532
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:16,519
Speaker 1: was destroying skin cells. But a lot of the insects things,

1533
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: there's it's all bark and no bite, like it's not

1534
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,639
Speaker 1: actually doing anything to you. That's basically correct unless you're

1535
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 1: really tiny. So if your a mouse for beast, things

1536
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,320
Speaker 1: will kill you. If you're you know, human being. It

1537
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 1: takes about eight to ten per pounds. So if you

1538
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: weigh a hundred pounds, your little person takes about a

1539
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 1: thousand stings before it kill you. It eventually would. But

1540
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:41,519
Speaker 1: who gets a thousand stings? You know, not very many people,

1541
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:44,559
Speaker 1: do you know? Most I've ever had is about fifty.

1542
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: And that was in a kind of an accident where

1543
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,600
Speaker 1: a high fell apart and I didn't wasn't wearing proper equipment,

1544
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 1: and you know, things get out of hand. You got

1545
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: start by fifty honey bees. Yeah, and I got a

1546
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 1: little bit of swelling on my hand and that was

1547
01:28:57,439 --> 01:29:00,240
Speaker 1: about it. No, none the worse for the damn rates.

1548
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:02,080
Speaker 1: You know, two or three days later when the swelling

1549
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,559
Speaker 1: went away. And so it depends on you know, most

1550
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: of these venoms are designed for a whole suite of predators,

1551
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:13,400
Speaker 1: anything from a mouse or shrew or more, you know,

1552
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 1: something smaller or small lizard to somebody as big as

1553
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 1: an elephant. And that that's what I was missing in this,

1554
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, is that you know, you

1555
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 1: want to relate everything to humans. And I was sitting

1556
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: there going why it would why does a bullet ant

1557
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: need venom that lasts for three hours? Like isn't that

1558
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,759
Speaker 1: a little greedy? Like what needs three hours to hide

1559
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 1: or three hours to run away? Like that's a little

1560
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:40,720
Speaker 1: bit much. Yeah, the bullet ants venom didn't evolve in

1561
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 1: the presence of humans because we've been here for they

1562
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:46,599
Speaker 1: were fourteen thousands or thirty thousand years, depending on who's

1563
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:51,640
Speaker 1: arguing and fighting over when they came to the New World. Yeah, exactly.

1564
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: They're great fun. But that's relatively you know, as the

1565
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,280
Speaker 1: Germans saying, organ blick, a blink of the eye, and

1566
01:29:57,320 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 1: the evolutionary time scale and and so obviously bullet ants,

1567
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 1: which have been unchanged for a hundred million years, have

1568
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 1: evolved their venom a lot earlier than we were there,

1569
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 1: so that it wasn't intended for us. I think it

1570
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,799
Speaker 1: was more intended for the monkeys up there in the canopy,

1571
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,680
Speaker 1: the lizards, the frogs and the birds. Yeah, it'd be

1572
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:23,200
Speaker 1: nice to know what what considered the bullet ant one

1573
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:27,320
Speaker 1: on the pain index. Well, there was something so bad

1574
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 1: ascid just just brush it off when there's nothing that

1575
01:30:32,400 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 1: I know of. The closest I ever came to that

1576
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,480
Speaker 1: was that I had what I called the toad project,

1577
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,960
Speaker 1: which I wrote about in the book. We were just

1578
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 1: what we've had a couple of too many beers and

1579
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 1: the tummies full of a nice Costa Rican dinner, and

1580
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 1: we were kind of relaxing in the evening after a

1581
01:30:45,560 --> 01:30:48,439
Speaker 1: hard day's work, and we had this great big bouffo

1582
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 1: marine as the marine coat of the cane toad they

1583
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 1: call him in Australia, and they're about the size of

1584
01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: a platter, you know, a plate. There's this one sitting

1585
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: there wolfing down everything, three inch long grass offers, and

1586
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:05,600
Speaker 1: my assistant tossed a three inch long scorpion there and

1587
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 1: the thing got the scorpion in the mouth and the

1588
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:11,639
Speaker 1: front end and the mouth and the tail was stinging

1589
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 1: in between the eyes went down the hatch. He said,

1590
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 1: we got these things are tough, so then I had

1591
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 1: nine bullet dances. I'm not sure why didn't kill it. No,

1592
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: I had these nine bullet ants that I brought over

1593
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,879
Speaker 1: from the Caribbean side, because Coast Week has a Pacific

1594
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,479
Speaker 1: and the Caribbean side, and the bullet answer only on

1595
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:34,679
Speaker 1: the Caribbean side. So for some reason I brought nine over.

1596
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 1: I don't remember why hadn't used them all when I

1597
01:31:38,160 --> 01:31:40,000
Speaker 1: was on the Caribbean side. Anyway, I had these nine

1598
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 1: bullet ants, so I said, well, let's toss one and

1599
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:45,479
Speaker 1: see what the toad does with this. It's obviously naive.

1600
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 1: It's never seen a bullet d and because they don't

1601
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:51,240
Speaker 1: live here and ain't the same with loop loop and

1602
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:55,679
Speaker 1: eyes popped in and out, mouth gate and tongue came

1603
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:59,720
Speaker 1: out and said, well, I get the impression it responded

1604
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 1: to the son. So then I thought, well, the other

1605
01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:09,120
Speaker 1: hypothesis is that just does that normally when it eats anything.

1606
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 1: So I threw it something about the same size down

1607
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 1: the hatch. No hiccup ng, no eye popping or anything. Okay,

1608
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 1: that suggests to me that it got stung. So let's

1609
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:21,519
Speaker 1: try another ant. See how dumb this this toad is.

1610
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 1: So we did another aunt who eye popping the same thing.

1611
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: We did this through all nine ants. He never never learned,

1612
01:32:32,120 --> 01:32:36,200
Speaker 1: but was consuming them exactly and getting stung and suffering. Obviously,

1613
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 1: it didn't seem the like I thought it was too spicy,

1614
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:44,719
Speaker 1: but it didn't seem to stop. And and so the

1615
01:32:44,720 --> 01:32:48,599
Speaker 1: the question is, you know, why, why was the thing?

1616
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 1: I assume it still lived through it. I didn't follow

1617
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:57,640
Speaker 1: the toad to see if it but he. And the

1618
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: funny thing is we've we've never seen in toad stune

1619
01:33:00,120 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 1: makes and you know any of the herpetology literature where they,

1620
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, catch these things and say what are they eating?

1621
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,320
Speaker 1: And they open up and see what's in there. We

1622
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 1: had to do that in tenth grade or whatever. I

1623
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 1: opened one up and found a mouse in it. Man,

1624
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,679
Speaker 1: it's kind of the I'm still a little bit trauma

1625
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:23,920
Speaker 1: traumatized by it was a bullfrog with a mouse. I'm

1626
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 1: not surprised now eat anything. Bull Frogs the North American

1627
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 1: equivalent of the cane toad pretty much, and so none

1628
01:33:31,240 --> 01:33:34,800
Speaker 1: of the literature ever reported bullet dance in them. So

1629
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't know whether that's because the bullet dance aren't

1630
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 1: down on the ground near water, usually where the toads

1631
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 1: are there up in the canopy, and they go from

1632
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,519
Speaker 1: their nest at the base of a small tree or

1633
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: sapling up to the canopy. They don't forage out on

1634
01:33:49,600 --> 01:33:53,200
Speaker 1: the ground. I got stung about one out on the ground. Well,

1635
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 1: I guess they should modify. They don't start out that way.

1636
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: They go up and they may go thirty ft over,

1637
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:01,240
Speaker 1: fifty over, then down another one and forage on the

1638
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 1: ground there. And the reason they will do that is

1639
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:09,040
Speaker 1: they're fiercely territorial and colonies will kill each other, so

1640
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 1: they're not randomly distributed. Their evenly distributed because of this

1641
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,880
Speaker 1: constant warfare. So they don't want their nests to get

1642
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: discovered by a nearby bullet ant nests. So that's why

1643
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 1: they go up and down, and so they get discovered

1644
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 1: someplace further away, but they can't find the nests. The

1645
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:30,680
Speaker 1: nest is safe. But usually kane toads aren't on that

1646
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:34,080
Speaker 1: an area. They're usually you know, around the water. So

1647
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:36,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's so the absence of bullet

1648
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:41,640
Speaker 1: ants and cane toad guts is not necessarily an indicator exactly.

1649
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 1: They don't like them. So we have another junior high

1650
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: project for a nice Costa Rican got some busy junior

1651
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:50,320
Speaker 1: high people. Yeah, Costa Rican star students know, if they

1652
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:53,400
Speaker 1: were giving away these ecology degrees, I feel like there'll

1653
01:34:53,439 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 1: be a lot of folks being ecologists. The thing we

1654
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:02,720
Speaker 1: hated most and we were kids was horse flies. Yeah.

1655
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:05,679
Speaker 1: You'd be out swimming, like on the raft or whatever,

1656
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,559
Speaker 1: out in the middle of the lake and you get

1657
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: found out by a horse fly and everybody like you'd

1658
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 1: be underwater and everybody group effort trying to kill it,

1659
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:18,120
Speaker 1: and you know you eventually get it killed. Nob we

1660
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:22,000
Speaker 1: could breathe easy and then comes Yeah, like they're like

1661
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:25,880
Speaker 1: a slash and lap feeder exactly. They take a chunk

1662
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:30,360
Speaker 1: of flesh out of you. They open you up and

1663
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: suck your blood. You tell me, Yeah, they're kind of

1664
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: like a couple of Chinese meat cleavers, hacking away your skin,

1665
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:40,880
Speaker 1: getting it all nice and bloody and messy, and then

1666
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: they can drink the blood. Why is that hurts the

1667
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 1: damn bad man? Those things hurt I think because they

1668
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 1: haven't evolved to be a better system. Like a mosquito

1669
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: doesn't hurt much at all? Does it? On the sly, Yeah,

1670
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:55,760
Speaker 1: they are necessize, and they're sort of sneaky about that.

1671
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,240
Speaker 1: Or kissing bugs, which are one of the things I

1672
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,799
Speaker 1: work on, their blood sucking, you know, like a stink

1673
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:05,760
Speaker 1: bug type thing, except they suck blood. They don't hurt

1674
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,200
Speaker 1: at all, whereas some of the things that do hurt

1675
01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:10,800
Speaker 1: of the sloppy feeders, like the horse flies or the

1676
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,599
Speaker 1: deer flights, which are just like smaller varieties of horse

1677
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: So that hurts because of what he's doing to you,

1678
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:18,880
Speaker 1: because of what he's applying to you. It's because what

1679
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 1: he's doing to you. Yeah, my minus maybe the application

1680
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 1: of anesthesia exactly. Yeah, So that's what it feels like,

1681
01:36:26,240 --> 01:36:27,640
Speaker 1: just to have something to give you a bunch of

1682
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,360
Speaker 1: real small cuts all of a sudden. Yeah. And and

1683
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: some other ones that hurt. If you go to Africa,

1684
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,320
Speaker 1: the tetsi fly had never been personally bitten by one,

1685
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:38,200
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm told that they really hurt too. And

1686
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:41,679
Speaker 1: it's again kind of a sloppy feeder. And the last

1687
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:43,880
Speaker 1: one and they and they, they're the ones that are

1688
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,640
Speaker 1: responsible for a certain sleeping sick sleeping sickness which is

1689
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: which is gotta be some kind of like bacterial infection

1690
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 1: or whatever. You get from it's a protozome and it's

1691
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 1: related to chaugus disease, or it's it's a protozome, which

1692
01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,679
Speaker 1: is why it's so hard to treat, because the dog

1693
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:01,960
Speaker 1: on thing is that you carry out just like we are.

1694
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:04,760
Speaker 1: The cells are similar. So if it's a bacteria, they

1695
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:07,880
Speaker 1: have a different biochemistry and we can zap them a

1696
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:11,240
Speaker 1: lot more easily than we can something that's similar to us,

1697
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:14,320
Speaker 1: because if you kill them, well you're sort of killing

1698
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 1: us too, which isn't a good idea. The last one

1699
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: that really hurts that I know of, which is very

1700
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:25,840
Speaker 1: familiar to anybody around Montana or the northern areas, or

1701
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:29,439
Speaker 1: what we call stable flies look like a small house flying.

1702
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,320
Speaker 1: They bite and take a hunk out of it it. Oh yeah,

1703
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:33,200
Speaker 1: we love those in with deer flies and horse flies.

1704
01:37:33,400 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the stable flies. I would, uh, I would,

1705
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,080
Speaker 1: I guess I'm an entomologist. I would look at this

1706
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:41,920
Speaker 1: fly of lands on me if it's a house fly,

1707
01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:44,439
Speaker 1: won't be bothered to shoot it off because it's not

1708
01:37:44,479 --> 01:37:47,400
Speaker 1: doing any dam So I look at its probositive because

1709
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,880
Speaker 1: this floppy mop like thing in the bottom, it's a

1710
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:53,519
Speaker 1: house flying. It's safe if it's pointy, there's the stable

1711
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:57,519
Speaker 1: flying whack. I gotta kill it right away. And that's

1712
01:37:57,520 --> 01:38:00,240
Speaker 1: what's so funny though about the horse fly. As on

1713
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:02,559
Speaker 1: some of these stable flies too, I think they can

1714
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:06,320
Speaker 1: really take a beating. I whacked, like you score a

1715
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:08,960
Speaker 1: good hit and it doesn't pay off. You're the legs

1716
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 1: tuck up and it tips over and it falls on

1717
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:12,680
Speaker 1: the river rocks, and then you look at the thing

1718
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 1: right itself. Second, or if you're biting in horses and

1719
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: horses have tails that are whipping around, they kind of

1720
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,120
Speaker 1: hit you, but they don't really squash you. And so

1721
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 1: what you do is you hit them and then ruby.

1722
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:31,040
Speaker 1: That's right, So glancing thing. Do you think you'll do

1723
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:34,759
Speaker 1: a book someday about how best to squash bugs? Probably?

1724
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 1: Rub Probably not, But I actually do mention that in

1725
01:38:39,320 --> 01:38:41,320
Speaker 1: the book that I talk about if you get a

1726
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 1: honey being in the hair, stuck in your hair, I say,

1727
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 1: don't whack at it, because in order to squash the thing,

1728
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: you have to hit it so hard you'll give yourself

1729
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,559
Speaker 1: a minor concussion or at least the headache. And so

1730
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: I say a better thing to do is take a

1731
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 1: comb and try to comb out or if you insist

1732
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:00,879
Speaker 1: that you want to kill it, then it and smash

1733
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,639
Speaker 1: it as you're rubbing and turned into juice, which gives

1734
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:09,000
Speaker 1: you a good excuse to have a shampoo shower. Uh,

1735
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 1: I want to ask you explain the word of thinker

1736
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 1: pronounces is correctly apple semantic apple apple sematic. The apple

1737
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:19,800
Speaker 1: sematic is basically the technical term saying that you have

1738
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:23,640
Speaker 1: a warning coloration. The classic example people think of as

1739
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:26,240
Speaker 1: a coral snake. You see that red and white and

1740
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 1: yellow or red and black and yellow reather Red on black,

1741
01:39:29,240 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 1: You're okay, jack, Yeah, red on yellow you're a dead

1742
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 1: feller exactly. That's it. And and because most of you

1743
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:38,200
Speaker 1: look at it, you like, watch out exactly, you say,

1744
01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 1: you look at this. And there's been some tests that

1745
01:39:40,120 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: have been done with naive predators of snakes that have

1746
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:48,280
Speaker 1: never seen a coral snake or any dangerous thing, and

1747
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:51,639
Speaker 1: to give them saying a gray snake or a black

1748
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: snake or some other color green snake, and then you

1749
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 1: give the pattern that's similar to the the coral snake,

1750
01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:03,920
Speaker 1: and they kind of look back and they have this innate,

1751
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:10,720
Speaker 1: genetically programmed apprehension of this appop sematic warning coloration, and

1752
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 1: I think that relates to anything that's warning. Colors are

1753
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:20,160
Speaker 1: basically red, black, yellow, and orange, and those there's one

1754
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: exception for color blind animals. The skunk is a warning

1755
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:29,599
Speaker 1: appos sematic because there's jet black and brilliant white. See

1756
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:32,160
Speaker 1: white and black. That's as contrasting as you can get.

1757
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:35,560
Speaker 1: Most people know not to pounce on a snake for you,

1758
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:41,759
Speaker 1: not a snake, Hey, skunk for dinner. Yeah. I imagine

1759
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,240
Speaker 1: for that system to work, appop sematic, right, I'm saying

1760
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:47,840
Speaker 1: it right, Yeah, that's right. For that system the work,

1761
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 1: like there has to be um, a bite and bark exactly.

1762
01:40:53,439 --> 01:40:56,680
Speaker 1: But there's probably some species i'm guessing exploited where they

1763
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:02,600
Speaker 1: they resemble the trouble things but don't have the bite exactly.

1764
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,920
Speaker 1: That's the king snake example. King snake can't do anything

1765
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: to really hurt you. Perfectly tasty and yummy, but you

1766
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 1: don't want to take the chance because you don't know

1767
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:15,800
Speaker 1: whether he's a cheater or the real thing. We see

1768
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 1: the same thing with you know, a lot of other

1769
01:41:18,479 --> 01:41:22,720
Speaker 1: monarch butterflies have what's called the viceroy, which was originally

1770
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:26,400
Speaker 1: thought to be a cheap mimic. It looked just like

1771
01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 1: it and it wasn't toxic. It turns out there mildly toxic.

1772
01:41:29,720 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 1: So it's a scale from being total cheat to total

1773
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 1: true truth, with a gradation of things in between them.

1774
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:42,559
Speaker 1: But I think there's some innate apprehension of bright things, like,

1775
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:45,400
Speaker 1: for example, in the southeast of the US, they have

1776
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 1: these things called the cow killer velvet and black and

1777
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:52,760
Speaker 1: black and red. You almost never hear of anybody who's

1778
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,800
Speaker 1: ever been stung by one. And I say, you know,

1779
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:58,679
Speaker 1: juniors out there are salies out there, two year old

1780
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: kids playing in the backyard, cute little fuzzy was he

1781
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:04,120
Speaker 1: let's pick it up? You think that would happen all

1782
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:06,519
Speaker 1: the time, and you'd know if they picked him up,

1783
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 1: they come squawking in Mama or Dada, whoever is there,

1784
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 1: would would you know, be cuddling them and see this

1785
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:15,720
Speaker 1: thing running around. It's quite bright, so you you'd know

1786
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:19,120
Speaker 1: if there's a case of that happening. Yeah, we've never

1787
01:42:19,160 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: heard of any of those, with one exception, Famous EO.

1788
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:25,519
Speaker 1: Wilson reported in a story when he was about three

1789
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:27,720
Speaker 1: that he picked one up. But then he's an in

1790
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:30,040
Speaker 1: them alogist like me, so you have to make exception

1791
01:42:30,160 --> 01:42:35,000
Speaker 1: for people like us, but most you know, normal people. E. O. Wilson,

1792
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:39,720
Speaker 1: the guy that popularized the term biophelia right exactly, an island, biogeography,

1793
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:43,439
Speaker 1: and about a dozen other terms. Pretty amazing guy. He

1794
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:47,639
Speaker 1: was an entomologist. Yeah, he's basically an aunt man. Really, yeah,

1795
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 1: that's that's his true love. But he's an overall general biologists.

1796
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 1: You name it, its living and it's animal. He's pretty

1797
01:42:55,040 --> 01:42:58,200
Speaker 1: good at it. But yeah, he's the only one I've

1798
01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 1: ever heard of who ever got stung as as a youngster.

1799
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,559
Speaker 1: And of course once you get older, parents you don't

1800
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,439
Speaker 1: mess with that thing. So now they're communicating, But as

1801
01:43:07,439 --> 01:43:10,160
Speaker 1: a two or three year old, you're not being told,

1802
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 1: oh that that red and black thing, don't don't mess

1803
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:16,160
Speaker 1: with that. So you're completely naive, yet you don't pick

1804
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:20,320
Speaker 1: them up. And and that's the interesting question. I think

1805
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 1: we have this innate fear of it. You see similar

1806
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:27,240
Speaker 1: sorts of things and people having an innate fear of

1807
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 1: snakes because we evolved in Africa, and in Africa, almost

1808
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:34,639
Speaker 1: every snake there are at least a good chunk of them.

1809
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:37,960
Speaker 1: Bite you and you're dead. So you learn if it's

1810
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:41,120
Speaker 1: snake or snake, like, don't take a chance, it isn't

1811
01:43:41,120 --> 01:43:44,960
Speaker 1: worth it. Avoid the thing. And there's extreme phobia of

1812
01:43:45,479 --> 01:43:49,599
Speaker 1: people which persists even to people who are nowhere near

1813
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:53,240
Speaker 1: where there's dangerous snakes, like northern Europeans have no dangerous

1814
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: snakes anymore. People's phobia snakes or northern parts of China

1815
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. Asia or there are no Yeah,

1816
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 1: that's why always would be like a really interesting if

1817
01:44:04,320 --> 01:44:08,960
Speaker 1: you could time machine back and watch the first human

1818
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:15,280
Speaker 1: um after coming from Asia across Burringia, and they've been

1819
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: generations and generations removed from snakes because they've been in

1820
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:25,360
Speaker 1: the Arctic um that all of a sudden someone penetrates

1821
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:30,639
Speaker 1: down into the mid continent and there's a rattlesnake. Did

1822
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:35,280
Speaker 1: they just like go to grab it or did they

1823
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:42,360
Speaker 1: have that thing like, I'm generations removed from snakes, thousands

1824
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 1: of years removed from snakes, but there's no way I'm

1825
01:44:44,160 --> 01:44:46,439
Speaker 1: touching that thing that that would be my feeling. Is

1826
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 1: that what had happened? But they carried that. Yeah, we

1827
01:44:50,360 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 1: need a time machine to do that, the same thing

1828
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 1: all kinds man. Yeah, when I get a time machine,

1829
01:44:56,720 --> 01:44:59,000
Speaker 1: get into the movie, but do that first and then

1830
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: I got some other stuff on to take care of.

1831
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:02,800
Speaker 1: And we have the same phobia of spiders, you know,

1832
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:07,840
Speaker 1: it's a rachnophobia technical term for people are dreadfully petrified

1833
01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:12,720
Speaker 1: of spiders in general, translers in particular, which is kind

1834
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:15,479
Speaker 1: of interesting because tranchers never bite people and they don't

1835
01:45:15,560 --> 01:45:18,679
Speaker 1: hurt if they even if they did, that's our trend.

1836
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 1: But you're definitely afraid of them, exactly I was. I

1837
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 1: didn't know until recently how harmless they were. I just

1838
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 1: assumed there must be something bad about them. I mean,

1839
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:28,920
Speaker 1: look at them, you know. I mean I I do

1840
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:33,080
Speaker 1: a lot of classroom displays where I hold of transfer

1841
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,439
Speaker 1: taking up the classroom with third or fourth graders. And

1842
01:45:36,479 --> 01:45:39,160
Speaker 1: the funny thing is the girls always come up first

1843
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:41,880
Speaker 1: and hold their hands out. The boys, the big brave boys,

1844
01:45:41,880 --> 01:45:44,680
Speaker 1: are sitting in the back, you know, watching and you know,

1845
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 1: acting tough and brave. About the fifth time a girl

1846
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:51,400
Speaker 1: holds the tranch and the boys are realizing they're embarrassed

1847
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:53,519
Speaker 1: and they got to show that they're boys, and they

1848
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:56,840
Speaker 1: come up and start holding the transulum. But it's not

1849
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:59,160
Speaker 1: just me. I've had other people report the same sort

1850
01:45:59,160 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 1: of thing. So I don't. I don't know what that

1851
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 1: tells us about it, but it makes an interesting story. No,

1852
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,840
Speaker 1: it is interesting to understand, like biologically what could have

1853
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:09,160
Speaker 1: happened there? I got, I got one last question for you.

1854
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:12,800
Speaker 1: They're not gonna then see if colnt uh Corean or

1855
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:14,519
Speaker 1: Phil have anything for you, and then I'm gonna plug

1856
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 1: your book. But can you talk about the drink the

1857
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:20,919
Speaker 1: Spanish fly you mentioned in your book? It's an afergy,

1858
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:26,800
Speaker 1: it's an afrodisiac, right, well, sort of? What is it?

1859
01:46:27,240 --> 01:46:31,360
Speaker 1: Spanish fly? Is? Can there? Then? Which is a again

1860
01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:35,280
Speaker 1: one of these small molecules in chemistry. And what it

1861
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:38,880
Speaker 1: does is it it rots away tissue of a body.

1862
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 1: It's it kills a lot of horses. It's particularly bad

1863
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:46,799
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma and areas like that, where it gets into alfalfa, blister, beetles.

1864
01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:49,599
Speaker 1: They bail it up in the hay. Horse eats as

1865
01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:52,840
Speaker 1: few as a dozen a few of these things. The

1866
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,280
Speaker 1: stomach kind of rots away and you lose your horse.

1867
01:46:56,040 --> 01:47:00,040
Speaker 1: Horrible pain. Back up, So a guy bails up a

1868
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:04,599
Speaker 1: beetle inadvertently exactly, the horse eats the hay with the beetle,

1869
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:07,800
Speaker 1: The dried up beetle, the dead beetle. Yeah, it's just

1870
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 1: like it's just in its carcass and then he just

1871
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 1: inadvertently eats some of these and that can be fatal

1872
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: exactly from a toxin. It's in the beetle, exactly. In

1873
01:47:15,280 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 1: the Spanish fly was one of these things that we

1874
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: presume was in Europe, presumably in Spain, I'm not sure

1875
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:25,479
Speaker 1: where the came. Yeah, that sounds reasonable. And the guys

1876
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 1: would put it in and the drinks of the food

1877
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,479
Speaker 1: of the gals and they'd grind up a small part

1878
01:47:30,520 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 1: of this beetle. What it's supposed to do is it's

1879
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:38,120
Speaker 1: a general irritant, so it irritates everything, including your your

1880
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:41,479
Speaker 1: genital system, so you want to scratch, and you aware

1881
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,880
Speaker 1: of it, and it's painful and whatever. If you get

1882
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:47,599
Speaker 1: the right dose, the story goes that, then then you'll

1883
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 1: become much more susceptible to being um sexually appreciated by

1884
01:47:53,560 --> 01:48:00,000
Speaker 1: whoever put this. I buy that totally. I'm not sure

1885
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 1: that's all wives tale or not, but that's that's sort

1886
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:06,560
Speaker 1: of the folk. That's what that comes from. And in

1887
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:10,400
Speaker 1: that amount doesn't rock the inside of human no, they well,

1888
01:48:10,479 --> 01:48:13,040
Speaker 1: if they get it wrong, then it's bad news. Yeah,

1889
01:48:13,120 --> 01:48:15,640
Speaker 1: you're like, hey, maybe check it out. Like, I'm not

1890
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:17,640
Speaker 1: gonna put so many of these in here that it

1891
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:19,800
Speaker 1: rots your insides out and kills you. I'm just gonna

1892
01:48:19,840 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 1: put a little touch in and this is gonna put

1893
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:24,120
Speaker 1: you in the mood. It's kind of like a like

1894
01:48:24,280 --> 01:48:26,800
Speaker 1: all night to puffer fish. You have to you have

1895
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 1: to eat just enough of that that's really tasty, not

1896
01:48:29,479 --> 01:48:33,320
Speaker 1: enough to kill you. So that's what that comes from.

1897
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:36,439
Speaker 1: That's what I'm told. And don't call me the world expert,

1898
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:39,920
Speaker 1: but that's what the general you know, rumor has is

1899
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:42,840
Speaker 1: where it came from. Its being called Spanish fly. Of

1900
01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:46,600
Speaker 1: course it's not a fly at all to beetle, but technicalities,

1901
01:48:47,320 --> 01:48:48,720
Speaker 1: you know. I said that was my last question. I

1902
01:48:48,720 --> 01:48:52,040
Speaker 1: have one more question. You run around the snow in

1903
01:48:52,400 --> 01:48:59,040
Speaker 1: uh sandals exactly? Now? Okay? Uh? We have we we

1904
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 1: have just like you know, among our circle here, we

1905
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:04,639
Speaker 1: have an ongoing debate about whether it's responsible to wear

1906
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 1: sandals or flip flops. Because if there's like a like

1907
01:49:09,479 --> 01:49:11,400
Speaker 1: my buddy Rownie likes to point outlets da, there's a

1908
01:49:11,479 --> 01:49:15,559
Speaker 1: volcano and there's lava everywhere, are you prepared to defend

1909
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 1: your family? So he doesn't like. Not only is he

1910
01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:23,960
Speaker 1: not like sandals, he doesn't like people who wear sandals. Um,

1911
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:26,240
Speaker 1: but here you are and there's twelve inches of snow

1912
01:49:26,240 --> 01:49:29,000
Speaker 1: on the ground, and it's snowing, and you show upen sandals.

1913
01:49:29,680 --> 01:49:32,280
Speaker 1: Can you share with us your what you what went

1914
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 1: through your head when you dressed well? I check the

1915
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:37,160
Speaker 1: weather report first. If it gets below ten degrees, I

1916
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:43,160
Speaker 1: won't wear sandals off. Yeah, ten or fifteen degrees. And

1917
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:46,400
Speaker 1: a nice thing about sandals is they're very comfortable. I

1918
01:49:46,439 --> 01:49:49,679
Speaker 1: never get blisters with them. I do everything. I get

1919
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:52,479
Speaker 1: good sandals. Flip flops don't cut the mustard in my mind.

1920
01:49:52,640 --> 01:49:55,160
Speaker 1: You got chockos on? Yeah, I get chocos there. You know,

1921
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:57,120
Speaker 1: they're sort of the best that I can find, other

1922
01:49:57,160 --> 01:50:01,120
Speaker 1: than South Africa makes rockies, which don't import here. They're

1923
01:50:01,240 --> 01:50:04,320
Speaker 1: they're pretty good too. And today it's thirty four degrees

1924
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:08,519
Speaker 1: with six inches of snow. The heat way freshne. My

1925
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:11,040
Speaker 1: wife complains that I have no feeling in my feet.

1926
01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:13,720
Speaker 1: But we did a test the other day and we

1927
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:16,360
Speaker 1: had one of these infrared guns that tells you, you know,

1928
01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 1: the temperature of what you're pointing out. Her hands were

1929
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:22,559
Speaker 1: hot like eighty six degrees or something like that. In

1930
01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:25,439
Speaker 1: my hands were like sixty one or sixty two degrees.

1931
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,040
Speaker 1: I said, I bet my feet are warmer. So she

1932
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:30,360
Speaker 1: shot my feet and they were like three degrees warmer.

1933
01:50:32,640 --> 01:50:36,519
Speaker 1: Do you have like a tolerance to increased tolerance to

1934
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,439
Speaker 1: pain now that you've been stunt? I don't think so.

1935
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 1: The one case, you know, I get asked this, how

1936
01:50:42,600 --> 01:50:45,840
Speaker 1: do you know that you're just not nerve dead and

1937
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:49,560
Speaker 1: you no longer respond to these So the first adventure

1938
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 1: that I had in in in Australia, I was with

1939
01:50:53,080 --> 01:50:55,679
Speaker 1: a group of social insect people and other AUNT people

1940
01:50:55,720 --> 01:50:59,240
Speaker 1: watch people and be people. They're fair game is guinea pigs.

1941
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:01,559
Speaker 1: They they're not edgible. They should know what they're doing

1942
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,920
Speaker 1: and if they don't, don't blame me. I'm not exploiting

1943
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:09,360
Speaker 1: somebody who's completely naive and ignorant. That's my justification. So

1944
01:51:09,439 --> 01:51:11,080
Speaker 1: then I we got that out of the way. What

1945
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 1: the experiment was. I had been stung by them when

1946
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:18,599
Speaker 1: I was Oh, it's sharp and it's clean, and it's

1947
01:51:19,280 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 1: chemical like to me, not burning or anything, but it's

1948
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:25,200
Speaker 1: less than a honeybe it's you know, like one and

1949
01:51:25,240 --> 01:51:28,080
Speaker 1: a half something like that, which kind of surprised me.

1950
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:30,560
Speaker 1: I had an expectation from the literature this would be

1951
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:33,200
Speaker 1: like a three or really really hurt a whole lot.

1952
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,240
Speaker 1: So I thought, well, maybe I'm just nerve dead. We

1953
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:39,000
Speaker 1: can test this. I was on this bus load we

1954
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:41,759
Speaker 1: were in Kangaroo Island, which is burned up last week,

1955
01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:46,160
Speaker 1: and the bus driver said, we see a bull ant

1956
01:51:46,240 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 1: colony and alongside of her, anyone want to stop? Yes.

1957
01:51:50,200 --> 01:51:53,120
Speaker 1: The whole bus just screamed, so it all got out.

1958
01:51:53,439 --> 01:51:56,040
Speaker 1: I being sneaky and knowing what I'm doing, I had

1959
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:58,519
Speaker 1: this jar and I was picking up an one flip

1960
01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:01,400
Speaker 1: flip into the jar. It was about a tenth of

1961
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:03,439
Speaker 1: a second for reach, and I picked him and flipped

1962
01:52:03,479 --> 01:52:07,400
Speaker 1: into the jar. They didn't notice that speed. These things

1963
01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:11,599
Speaker 1: are very fast. I was just faster, and so someone

1964
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:13,920
Speaker 1: would They try to catch them with tweezers, and they

1965
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:17,120
Speaker 1: can't catch them. They're too big and too agile, and

1966
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:20,639
Speaker 1: they can't suck him up with aspirators. And there trying

1967
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:22,720
Speaker 1: trying to trap them in the short time we had,

1968
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:25,240
Speaker 1: and they were getting frustrated. So then they do like

1969
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 1: they saw, Oh Schmidt, he's the expert, and all that

1970
01:52:27,439 --> 01:52:29,599
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. He's just picking them up. So they

1971
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:31,680
Speaker 1: picked him and get stung. And I would kind of

1972
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:35,720
Speaker 1: saunter over and say, how how does this sting affect you?

1973
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 1: Is it like more than a honeybe lesson honeybe about

1974
01:52:39,160 --> 01:52:41,800
Speaker 1: about like a honeybee or whatever? I managed to get

1975
01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:46,000
Speaker 1: five of these people that I sort of sneakily got

1976
01:52:46,080 --> 01:52:51,439
Speaker 1: is my volunteer controls on my own nerve deadness, if

1977
01:52:51,439 --> 01:52:55,080
Speaker 1: that's a word. And they all said, well, surprising, it

1978
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:57,679
Speaker 1: hurts less than a honeybee, a little bit less. All

1979
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:00,400
Speaker 1: five of them agreed basically what I said, So I said,

1980
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:03,280
Speaker 1: ha ha, Schmidt is not nerve dead You know what

1981
01:53:03,320 --> 01:53:05,400
Speaker 1: I like about what you're saying, though, is you're you're

1982
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:10,200
Speaker 1: pointing out um as a way to measure pain. You're

1983
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:13,280
Speaker 1: not applying an absolute number to it. It's like it's

1984
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:17,880
Speaker 1: a relative thing. Yeah, Like someone might be someone might

1985
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:20,439
Speaker 1: um think that a hunting bee is like crippling and

1986
01:53:20,479 --> 01:53:22,519
Speaker 1: they can't do anything for an hour after getting it,

1987
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:24,599
Speaker 1: but they could still tell you that that's not as bad.

1988
01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 1: Or someone might be a honeybe they don't even think

1989
01:53:26,520 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 1: about it, but they could still relatively tell you, you know, Yeah,

1990
01:53:30,840 --> 01:53:32,640
Speaker 1: the one. One case where I have a little bit

1991
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:35,559
Speaker 1: of trouble with that is there's beekeepers and there's people

1992
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:38,280
Speaker 1: who collect a lot of them actually around the Montana area,

1993
01:53:38,479 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 1: who collect yellow jackets for collecting the venom for allergy shots.

1994
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:45,040
Speaker 1: Oh and so if you make your profession as a beekeeper,

1995
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:47,840
Speaker 1: you asked them, you've ever gotten stung by a yellow Yeah,

1996
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 1: those daring things, they really hurt. They heard a lot

1997
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:54,800
Speaker 1: more than a honeybee. You go, well, and then you

1998
01:53:54,840 --> 01:53:58,120
Speaker 1: ask the yellow jacket people who collect them for a living,

1999
01:53:58,600 --> 01:54:00,840
Speaker 1: and they say, what about a honey v versus your

2000
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 1: yellow jack That was bloody honey bees? They really really

2001
01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:07,000
Speaker 1: like they've lost some of their Yeah, I think it's

2002
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:12,000
Speaker 1: a bit psychological psycho. They both hurd the same. I

2003
01:54:12,040 --> 01:54:15,840
Speaker 1: don't like either one of them. You guys got any

2004
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:19,200
Speaker 1: more questions? I kind of thought you were gonna applaud

2005
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:25,120
Speaker 1: Dr Schmidt's um. You know, he wasn't willing to take

2006
01:54:25,120 --> 01:54:28,599
Speaker 1: advantage of naive people. And I've kind of heard you

2007
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: say that in in certain circles where you're like hiking

2008
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:35,720
Speaker 1: a little too fast, And he said, all those folks

2009
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:38,760
Speaker 1: knew what they were getting into. Oh yeah, which different

2010
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:44,400
Speaker 1: views on it. Yeah, yeah that works. Uh No, I

2011
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:48,280
Speaker 1: I like the book and uh I really do enjoy

2012
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,320
Speaker 1: your adventures also. And and something you said at the

2013
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:56,160
Speaker 1: very beginning of the podcast, when Steve said he was

2014
01:54:56,240 --> 01:55:00,440
Speaker 1: bit by bullet Anton, he said, oh you're lucky. Um

2015
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:03,280
Speaker 1: do you feel that way like you do? You appreciate

2016
01:55:03,360 --> 01:55:06,760
Speaker 1: your experience. I'm glad to happen. Yeah, yeah, I think

2017
01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:09,400
Speaker 1: one of the things is acute pain. When you have this,

2018
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:12,280
Speaker 1: you obviously don't like and you wish you didn't have it.

2019
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:15,720
Speaker 1: But then did you get to regale this story time

2020
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:19,120
Speaker 1: and time again, particularly to your children and your grandchildren?

2021
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:21,720
Speaker 1: You know, Graham's can't tell me a story about your child,

2022
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:23,600
Speaker 1: and you can tell them about the bullet an. The

2023
01:55:23,720 --> 01:55:27,080
Speaker 1: kids will be enraptured with this seeing later on in life,

2024
01:55:27,160 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, good joy out of this. So I say,

2025
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 1: that's why you're lucky. If you never had this, you

2026
01:55:31,520 --> 01:55:34,840
Speaker 1: have one fewer stories to tell. And maybe that's just me,

2027
01:55:35,120 --> 01:55:37,840
Speaker 1: you know what, what to me is interesting and what

2028
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 1: maybe to other people isn't. But yeah, I I certainly

2029
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:43,960
Speaker 1: didn't like it when I got stung by it, but

2030
01:55:44,680 --> 01:55:51,840
Speaker 1: well I got a book out of it, so um,

2031
01:55:51,880 --> 01:55:55,880
Speaker 1: not to make this too much longer. But for people

2032
01:55:55,920 --> 01:56:02,400
Speaker 1: who will die from a beasting, what happens there is it?

2033
01:56:02,440 --> 01:56:06,480
Speaker 1: Is it that it's the kind in is it that

2034
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:11,080
Speaker 1: bees have kind in and in some susceptible people that

2035
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:14,320
Speaker 1: immediately will affect their heart or am I totally off

2036
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 1: base there? While you're you're close. What happens is these

2037
01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:21,680
Speaker 1: these have melatant, which is another one of these small peptides,

2038
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:25,960
Speaker 1: in other words, twenty six or so amino acids. And

2039
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:28,920
Speaker 1: what they do is they cause extreme pain. And that's

2040
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:31,200
Speaker 1: what causes the hurt. But that's not what we would

2041
01:56:31,280 --> 01:56:34,640
Speaker 1: kill you an allergic reaction and allergic reactions our old

2042
01:56:34,720 --> 01:56:38,880
Speaker 1: friend phosphol lippase a or how you wanted, is it's

2043
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:42,800
Speaker 1: usual phosphol lippase a. What it does is it causes

2044
01:56:42,840 --> 01:56:47,400
Speaker 1: a massive release of masts cells or basulfills. These are

2045
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:54,160
Speaker 1: specialized cells in our body that release endorphins not endorphins, histamine,

2046
01:56:54,760 --> 01:56:58,080
Speaker 1: slow reacting substance, and replaxus which are now called luco

2047
01:56:58,160 --> 01:57:04,880
Speaker 1: tryins us um a whole bunch of other enzymes and things.

2048
01:57:05,720 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 1: What they do is they cause a dramatic lowering of

2049
01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:12,760
Speaker 1: blood pressure and people if they get enough of this reaction,

2050
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:16,960
Speaker 1: they can actually die of asphyxia. With two ways, they

2051
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 1: cause it's swelling in your throat and you can die asphyxia,

2052
01:57:20,600 --> 01:57:25,480
Speaker 1: or they can cause cardiac you know, insufficiency where you

2053
01:57:25,520 --> 01:57:28,120
Speaker 1: can actually you know, have brain dead because you're not

2054
01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:32,280
Speaker 1: getting enough enough oxygen to your brain. In the third

2055
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:34,840
Speaker 1: way they can do it is actually cause the heart

2056
01:57:34,920 --> 01:57:39,600
Speaker 1: attack itself. And so it's it's it's our body killing us,

2057
01:57:39,640 --> 01:57:41,480
Speaker 1: not the venom. I was just gonna say, it's our

2058
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 1: own processes, yeagers triggers your body to attack itself exactly.

2059
01:57:46,920 --> 01:57:51,080
Speaker 1: And of course the bees like, oh, I didn't mean that. Yeah,

2060
01:57:51,320 --> 01:57:54,040
Speaker 1: And you say, why do why do we have Why

2061
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:57,080
Speaker 1: do we have this dumb immunogloby in an e system

2062
01:57:57,160 --> 01:58:00,800
Speaker 1: that causes us? The reason is that's our our system

2063
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:05,240
Speaker 1: that protects us against macro parasites, worms and big pathogens

2064
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:08,360
Speaker 1: and things of that sort. And if you notice people

2065
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 1: in places that are very poor hygd and have a

2066
01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 1: lot a lot worse parasite problems usually don't have allergies

2067
01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,520
Speaker 1: because their idea is busy fighting off the worms and

2068
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:22,680
Speaker 1: these sorts of things. Interesting, we're just too clean. We

2069
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:25,839
Speaker 1: have the hygienic theory that came out of Japan. Words.

2070
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:29,720
Speaker 1: We have all these immunizations of childhood disease in our

2071
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:33,720
Speaker 1: immune system just gets lazy and that's what causes you know,

2072
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 1: arthritis and mortivele sclerosis and you know all these autoimmune disease.

2073
01:58:38,120 --> 01:58:41,520
Speaker 1: None then it acts out. Yeah, just choose off our

2074
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 1: own body because we don't give it something useful too

2075
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:49,960
Speaker 1: to a to work on. Yeah, all right. The name

2076
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:53,040
Speaker 1: of the book again, The Sting of the Wild by

2077
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:57,120
Speaker 1: Justin O. Schmidt, creator of, among many other things, the

2078
01:58:57,160 --> 01:58:59,480
Speaker 1: Schmidt Pain Index, which you next time you get stung

2079
01:58:59,480 --> 01:59:01,880
Speaker 1: by something, you look it up. The subtitle of the book,

2080
01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 1: so it's The Sting of the Wild, the story of

2081
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:09,440
Speaker 1: the Man who got stung for science and uh, Mr Schmidt,

2082
01:59:09,520 --> 01:59:11,920
Speaker 1: Dr Schmidt, thank you very much for joining us. It's

2083
01:59:11,960 --> 01:59:14,040
Speaker 1: in my place here and uh and thank you for

2084
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:14,720
Speaker 1: the beautiful song.