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Speaker 1: On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef

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Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hi,

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Speaker 1: my name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin, Toronto,

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Speaker 1: and you're listening to the Backdeil Cast. This is our podcast,

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Speaker 1: how about women? That's right. We talk about the representation

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Speaker 1: of women in movies and how it's usually pitiful. Wow,

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Speaker 1: coming in hot. You're listening to our podcast. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened before, what's wrong with you? The freak? Are

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Speaker 1: you doing? You're doing good on the back end. You're

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Speaker 1: joining us now, that's good. So, yes, we talk about

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Speaker 1: movies in relation to their female characters, and we use

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel test as a jumping off point to start

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Speaker 1: that conversation. The test invented by cartoonist Alison Bechdel in

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Speaker 1: eighties that requires a piece of media have a scene

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Speaker 1: and exchange between two women with names. They must be

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Speaker 1: talking about something other than a man for more than

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Speaker 1: two lines of dialog, and wouldn't you know what? Most

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Speaker 1: movies do not pass this test. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: hear me take a really tiny bite of chip. I

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Speaker 1: guess ready, this is the a s m R. Part

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Speaker 1: that was really that was a good shout out to

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Speaker 1: the sun Ships. We're not sponsored by sun Chips, but

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Speaker 1: that was a hell of a crunch. Sun Chips crouch

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Speaker 1: on one today. So we are now on the How

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works Network and we're so happy. Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: we wanted to introduce a new member of our Bettel team.

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Speaker 1: She is our new producer, Sophie Lichtmann. Hi, guys, thanks

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Speaker 1: for helping us. Great Sophie and Aristotle the power team.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So now you know Sophie and you're about

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Speaker 1: to know our guest for today's episode. What's on next?

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Speaker 1: Here today? And Nick is here Arisottle is still with us,

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Speaker 1: but he couldn't be today's recording, so we have our

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Speaker 1: pal Nick subbing in today. What else can we say?

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Speaker 1: Recently got a haircut. I think it looks really nice.

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Speaker 1: His birthday is coming up. When this gets released, it

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Speaker 1: will have passed. He'll already be twenty six years old.

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Speaker 1: For grant, wow, I leaked it did anyways, So let's

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Speaker 1: also introduce our guest. She is a comedian an artist

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Speaker 1: and animator and the host of Mary Hula Han's Little podcast,

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Speaker 1: Mary who Han. Hello, welcome me son Chips. It's a

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Speaker 1: hell of a crunch. She's an entertainer, right, that's really good.

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Speaker 1: So today we are talking about the Sisterhood of the

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Speaker 1: Traveling Pants summer movie two thousand five flick taking place

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Speaker 1: in this summer. So welcome to summer everybody. The summer

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Speaker 1: bitches hot out there. Wow, so you should stay inside

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Speaker 1: listen to our podcast. And the sans are wearing pants

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Speaker 1: in the summer. Wow. I think maybe of all the

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Speaker 1: disbelief you have to suspend is the fact that people

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Speaker 1: are wearing full denim in Mexico in the summer. That

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Speaker 1: to me is, you know, the true test of friendship.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So, Mary, when did you first see this movie?

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Speaker 1: What's your history your relationship with the Sisterhood of the

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Speaker 1: Traveling Pants franchise came out in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: so I wasn't born yet, j K. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I saw it in a theater, but I think I

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Speaker 1: rented it. I don't remember if I watched it alone

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Speaker 1: or with friends either. Maybe you had a sisterhood there,

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Speaker 1: maybe not? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, um, and I also

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Speaker 1: read the book, so you have some exposure to it

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Speaker 1: prior to the yeah yeah, yeah, yea, yeah yeah yeah Jamie,

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Speaker 1: what about you. I loved this movie and it came out.

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Speaker 1: I loved the books. I went with my two cousins

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Speaker 1: and the one friend we made between the three of

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Speaker 1: us who was not directly related to us. Shout out

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Tanguay, our one friend. UM. So that was like

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Speaker 1: our group before and we went to see this movie.

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Speaker 1: We figured out who was who. It was a lot,

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Speaker 1: very exciting. Um yeah, I really loved this book series first,

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Speaker 1: and then I mean two thousand five, you've got it all.

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Speaker 1: You've got America Ferrara coming in from her Disney Channel

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Speaker 1: original movie that I really liked, Gotta Kick It Up,

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Speaker 1: great movie. You got Rory Gilmore, the world's worst actress

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Speaker 1: in the thing. You've got Joan of Arcadia, and you've

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Speaker 1: got play Lively, who's not even famous yet. It's very excited.

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Speaker 1: It's just I saw this movie in theaters. We watched

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Speaker 1: it at sleepovers. Afterwards. I read all the books. I

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Speaker 1: love it nice, yes, very good. I had read the

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Speaker 1: books when I was in high school, and I would

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Speaker 1: say I was a little too old for them at

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Speaker 1: the time, because, as I remember reading the part where

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Speaker 1: Blake Liveli's character Bridget, it's heavily implied that she loses

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Speaker 1: her virginity, but it is not explicitly stated at all.

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Speaker 1: And I was just like, why aren't they just talking

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Speaker 1: about it? They should just come out and stay it,

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Speaker 1: And and I was like I was too old and

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Speaker 1: too cool to be reading literature that was like beating

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Speaker 1: around the bush in terms of talking about sex. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I'm too cool for this. I want stuff

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Speaker 1: that talks about sex directly. Timing is everything with a

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Speaker 1: series like this where when you come in because when

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Speaker 1: I when I read these books, I would have been

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Speaker 1: in like fifth grade or something where I would have

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Speaker 1: believed anything this book told me about what teenage girls did,

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Speaker 1: because I was just like, oh, yeah, sure what we

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Speaker 1: were talking about this in the car and the way over.

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Speaker 1: How I have this very clear memory of the second

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Speaker 1: installment in the book series where there's like the Blake

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Speaker 1: Lively character bum in the second movie, she like gains

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Speaker 1: ten pounds during the summer, and it's like made out

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Speaker 1: to be like and this is the worst thing that

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Speaker 1: ever happened to her and she had to jog because

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Speaker 1: and I just like that specific passage stuck with me,

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Speaker 1: so like, I don't know, Yeah, when you read books

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Speaker 1: like this when you are a child, who who? I

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Speaker 1: still think about that a couple of times a year.

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Speaker 1: The fictional character they gained ten pounds once. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: almost as if media for young people has a responsibility to,

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Speaker 1: you know, not send out damaging, harmful messages, but it

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Speaker 1: still does all the time. Um I. So I had

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Speaker 1: read the books and I was not necessarily impressed with them,

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Speaker 1: even though I read all three I'm pretty sure. And

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Speaker 1: then I was like, I'm not going to see the movie. Also,

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Speaker 1: at this time, I was reading a series of books

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Speaker 1: called Angus Thongs and yeah, I was a good series.

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Speaker 1: I hesitate to return to them because what if it's not.

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Speaker 1: But I loved No, it's good. I was also way

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Speaker 1: too old for those when I read those, and I

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Speaker 1: was similarly not impressed. But um, I that it was

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Speaker 1: like snogging funny. Come on, didn't you think they were funny?

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Speaker 1: I was like eighteen, so it was way too cool.

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Speaker 1: My Yeah, I mean it's one of those It is

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Speaker 1: like one of those series that I feel like girls

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Speaker 1: like you just had to read them for some reason.

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Speaker 1: Like I read all the Twilight books. I feel nothing

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Speaker 1: for that franchise in particular, but I read them all

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Speaker 1: because I've same with Harry Potter. My mom tried to

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Speaker 1: get to We've discussed, tried to give me her crusty

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Speaker 1: ass copy of fifty Shades, and like, I'm not, I'm

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Speaker 1: not reading a book covered in my mom's come. I'm

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Speaker 1: simply not. But you know, And that was when I

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Speaker 1: found I had aged out of having to read books

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Speaker 1: just because I felt like I had to. And now

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Speaker 1: I know it sounds like and I haven't read a books.

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Speaker 1: Books are for losers, and uh, I think hacking. Now

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Speaker 1: you're just hacking and I'm I'm spending a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in the main frames. So there's there's other ways

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Speaker 1: to get data other than analog books. She's a code girl. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So anyway, the sister of the Traveling Pants. Shall I

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Speaker 1: do the recap? Yes? So this movie centers around for

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Speaker 1: lifelong friends Bridget, Lena, Carmen, and Tibby, and they have

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Speaker 1: been friends like since before they were born because their

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Speaker 1: mothers all met in a aerobics class while they were

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Speaker 1: all freaking pregnant as hell, but from other days as well, right,

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Speaker 1: so I guess they just like met as babies all

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Speaker 1: in the delivery room, question Mark, and then have been

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Speaker 1: friends ever since. I'm not really sure, but anyway, so

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Speaker 1: they're now sixteen. They are best friends, and it is

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Speaker 1: the summer, and this is the first summer that they're

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Speaker 1: spending a part because Lena is going off to Greece

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Speaker 1: to visit her grandparents, Bridget is going off to soccer

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Speaker 1: camp in Mexico. Car Man is going to South Carolina

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Speaker 1: to visit her dad, who is from the West Wing.

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Speaker 1: And it's distracting also the dad and get out. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he looks old from Billy Madison, that's right. Oh yes,

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Speaker 1: he tries to shoot Billy. What a career? This man

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Speaker 1: is a peak peak two thousand five. Bradley Whitford shouts

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Speaker 1: at brad anyways, okay. And then so Tibby is um

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Speaker 1: staying in Bethesda, Maryland, where they're all from, and they

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Speaker 1: were they olive and she is working at is it Walman's,

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Speaker 1: which is psically a Walmart and knockoff. These are their

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Speaker 1: summer plans and like the day before, they all part ways.

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Speaker 1: They are at a thrift store and they find this

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Speaker 1: pair of jeans that somehow mysteriously fits them all perfectly,

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Speaker 1: even though they have different heights and weights and body shapes,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, wow, these are a magical pair of pants.

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Speaker 1: I would argue that there's exactly two body shapes between

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Speaker 1: the four of them, which I realized for the first

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Speaker 1: time watching this movie. I'm like, oh my god, there's

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Speaker 1: only two. Like they're like Alexis Bladell and Amber Tamlin

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Speaker 1: and Blake Lively have basically the same girls. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: all skinny white girls. And it's like, this is actually

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Speaker 1: not that amazing anyway, No, it's but Blake's tall. How

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Speaker 1: does Blake not have a camel too in these pants?

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Speaker 1: Like what anyways? Sorry? So yeah, so they this pair

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Speaker 1: pants magically fits them all, and they decide they're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, they're these magic pants. We should share

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Speaker 1: them throughout the summer, send them to each other in

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Speaker 1: our respective places, and it'll it'll help keep us together.

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Speaker 1: And then we'll write letters and they like make this

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Speaker 1: whole manifesto and a gorgeous framing device. And I love it.

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Speaker 1: It works, I love it. I love that. I love

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Speaker 1: the rule where you can't wash it. That's disgusting. You're

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Speaker 1: wearing full length denim in Mexico in August and you

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Speaker 1: are not allowed to watch it. Yeah, that only you

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Speaker 1: can take them off looking at you, sloody want That's

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Speaker 1: what they said. That was and then and then like

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Speaker 1: lad He's like who me? I was like, okay, are

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Speaker 1: you okay? It's like her thing. She's the Samantha with

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Speaker 1: the bunch. We've got a Miranda, We've got a Samantha

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Speaker 1: whoever the other characters are, We've got some of those two.

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Speaker 1: And then I guess America ferras Our because she's like

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Speaker 1: the writer. I didn't even really think Miranda is is

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Speaker 1: um Tibby obviously, and then Lena would be Charlotte. That

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Speaker 1: totally does track. It tracks so hard wild anyway. So,

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Speaker 1: so Lena's in Greece. She meets a cute boy who

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Speaker 1: is our greablys too old for her, named Costos and

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Speaker 1: a boat. I don't know if he was on a boat,

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Speaker 1: but he definitely spends a lot of time on a boat.

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Speaker 1: Um So, she and him start to feel feelings for

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Speaker 1: each other, but their families are feuding. Um So, like

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Speaker 1: her grandma's trying to keep him apart. Meanwhile, in the

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Speaker 1: soccer camp in Mexico, Bridget is seeing this cute boy

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Speaker 1: who's a coach. But there's like a strict no dating

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Speaker 1: coaches policy. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, that

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Speaker 1: should be the rule. Did they ever say how old

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Speaker 1: this character is and she's seventeen sixteen? She says she's

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Speaker 1: she might be lying, Oh, because women be lying all

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Speaker 1: the time. Or maybe or I wouldn't be shocked if

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Speaker 1: the people making this movie we're like, oh, what are

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Speaker 1: the consent rules? And we've got to make her she

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Speaker 1: was born in September like they was it different in

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Speaker 1: the book? I feel like I remember it being different

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Speaker 1: in the book, But maybe I'm just thinking that since

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Speaker 1: that's like a more scandal story. But wouldn't that make

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Speaker 1: no sense that she would be older than them, because

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Speaker 1: weren't they all born born within a week of each other? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so why would she think everyone else? I think they

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Speaker 1: changed in the beginning. Yeah, so unclear or what that's

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Speaker 1: all about. But she might be sixteen anyway. So she

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Speaker 1: she starts crushing on this hot coach Eric. All bangs

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Speaker 1: that are no personality that's that sorry. Then Carmen is

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Speaker 1: arriving in South Carolina with her dad and then surprised

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Speaker 1: he has a new family. Surprise. It's Josh Lyman from

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Speaker 1: the West Wing. Yeah, and he's marrying a white bitch

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Speaker 1: fucking white kids. That's such a weird scene where America

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Speaker 1: Ferrera is like, dad, bla blah blah. They're getting around

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Speaker 1: along great, and then he's just like, sorry for burying

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Speaker 1: the lead. Meet my white family. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: you can't just do Although it did remind me a

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Speaker 1: little bit, I wonder if it reminded you too of

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Speaker 1: the parent trap. Oh, and Dennis Quaid's like, by the way,

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Speaker 1: here's Meredith, and I can't just do this to a kid.

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Speaker 1: It's not there anyway. So she's dealing with that. And

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Speaker 1: then finally Tibby is making a documentary and she meets

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Speaker 1: this twelve year old girl named Bailey who takes an

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Speaker 1: interest in helping her with this documentary, even though they

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Speaker 1: kind of get off to a rough star because they're

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Speaker 1: both very stubborn. It's a cancer kid narrative. I find

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Speaker 1: it very frustrating. Yes, she it's revealed that she has

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Speaker 1: leukemia and is sick. The second she it's revealed that

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Speaker 1: she has leukemia. The Bailey character immediately only begin speaking

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Speaker 1: in like dove candy bar phrases like this saite. She

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Speaker 1: is an interesting, dynamic character. And then they have that

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Speaker 1: exchange where it's well, I mean, we'll get into it,

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Speaker 1: but like, oh god, I hate, I hate, I hate,

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Speaker 1: I hate narratives like this. They're so lazy. Yeah, not great.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, with each of these stories, Bridget ends up

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Speaker 1: sleeping with this guy who she's been like very aggressively pursuing,

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Speaker 1: this soccer coach, and then she sinks into a depression. Um,

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Speaker 1: her mother committed suicide when you find out the beginning

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Speaker 1: in the movie. Yes, Um, so she's dealing with some

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Speaker 1: grief issues, possibly some mental health issues that I would

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Speaker 1: argue do not get explored very responsibly in this movie. Um.

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Speaker 1: Then Lena finally confronts her family about like, don't try

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Speaker 1: to keep me away from this boy. I love him

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Speaker 1: and he's helping me figure out that I can feel

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Speaker 1: love and have feelings. And also the conflict was over

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Speaker 1: like fish from twenty years ago, so they're all kind

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Speaker 1: of like, ah, yeah, I guess it's fine, right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then Carmen confronts her dad and it's like, she's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm really angry at you because you left me when

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Speaker 1: I was ten and traded me in for a better

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Speaker 1: family or a different family that it seems like you

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Speaker 1: think is better. And she confronts him about it, and

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Speaker 1: then for reasons that I don't fully understand, goes to

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Speaker 1: his wedding. Well, the other three girls say that she

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Speaker 1: would be sad if she didn't go right um, and

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Speaker 1: then Tibby and Bailey are like getting close, sir, and

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Speaker 1: does Bailey die at these She does? Yeah, they don't explicitly.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that they explicitly say it, but it's implied.

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Speaker 1: And then you see Tivy and Brian mcbrian, who is

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Speaker 1: my crush from this movie, Brian mcbrian, the gamer with

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Speaker 1: a hat, very much your type. Yeah, my my little

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Speaker 1: hacking queen who hangs out at a gas station all day. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So she she does die in the books, she for

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Speaker 1: sure does. I don't think that they stayed it. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think so that's why I wasn't sure. It's

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Speaker 1: up to you. Well, you see how she that child

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Speaker 1: is lit in the last scene, God's coming for her

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Speaker 1: and fast. It's so overblown where they have like purple

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Speaker 1: eyeshadow under her eyes and she's like lit by the moon,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, can we I'm done. I'm done

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Speaker 1: with this. I was enjoying this character, but you had

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Speaker 1: to kill it. So Amber Tamblin could learn a lesson, right,

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Speaker 1: which is um, I guess that it's okay to be

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Speaker 1: don't even know what the listen is, but anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: okay to be dead. I hope that all of our

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Speaker 1: listeners at the back Tilt cost recognized that it's okay

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Speaker 1: to you. If you're dead, chill, you can still enjoy

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Speaker 1: our podcast. You can still rock it listen, you can

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Speaker 1: still sign up for our Patreon even if you're dead. Well,

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Speaker 1: on that note, I think we should perhaps take a

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Speaker 1: quick break. What do you say, Let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: All right, keep your pants on, We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back back. I had to go change my traveling pants,

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Speaker 1: so I had to write a journal entry on on

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Speaker 1: my pants and then give it to Caitlin, because that's

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Speaker 1: how you be friends with girls. Yeah, that'sn't a female friendship.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the first things I wanted

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Speaker 1: to mention is that I like that this movie is

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Speaker 1: about sisterhood and about female friendship, especially for like this

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Speaker 1: age group, but we don't actually get to see them

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Speaker 1: be friends on screen that much right beginning in the end.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way the story is structured, So

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Speaker 1: would be weird if it wasn't like that. But it's

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Speaker 1: just like, Okay, well, if you're gonna make a movie

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Speaker 1: about like female friendship, why not have it be about

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Speaker 1: female friendship or we see them being friends, but it

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Speaker 1: crosses I don't know. I like how it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's inherent to the structure of the story, so I'm

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Speaker 1: fine with that. I was pleasantly surprised I forgot that

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Speaker 1: they came together at the end in such a meaningful way, um,

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Speaker 1: because it sort of seemed like the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: or it could have just been like and now their

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Speaker 1: home and they're going back to school. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Something I liked about it was that, like, this story

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Speaker 1: does a pretty good job of even when you're in

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Speaker 1: one of the girls like areas of like Lena will

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Speaker 1: still be talking about her friends and how much she

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Speaker 1: loves them while she's in Greece, and Tivy is talking

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Speaker 1: to her child, Hailed, whose parents we never see either

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Speaker 1: about her friend. Like everyone is like remembering their friends

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Speaker 1: and they're writing each other letters and it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. It's nice. I like when they say when

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Speaker 1: America Ferrara's writer character is like, I forget how she qualities.

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Speaker 1: She like qualifies all of them, but she's like Tibby

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Speaker 1: the rebel. Oh I wrote these down if you want

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Speaker 1: to hear. Um. Bridget is well first, she's like, it's

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Speaker 1: almost like the four of us form one complete person.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, shouldn't you all be one complete person?

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Speaker 1: Know you're sixteen? Um, So Bridget is wild and unstoppable.

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Speaker 1: Lena that's a fun way I'm saying. We think she's

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Speaker 1: slutty because that's what they keep saying. And anyways, uh,

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Speaker 1: Lena is shy and beautiful. Tibby is the rebel, and

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Speaker 1: Carmen is the writer. Although do we see Karmen Wright

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Speaker 1: at all? I think that this it's supposed to be her, right,

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Speaker 1: her telling of the story. I see, okay, much much

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Speaker 1: like Sex in the City, right, Yeah, I do enjoy

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Speaker 1: that it is a story about female friendship, because I

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Speaker 1: think in a lot of movies, especially about girls of

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Speaker 1: this age, it's something like mean girls or Heathers or

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Speaker 1: different other ones that we've done on the podcast, and

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Speaker 1: just other movies in general, where it's a lot of

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Speaker 1: like antagonistic feelings towards other girls, like girl and girl

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Speaker 1: hate and pettiness and things like that. So at the

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Speaker 1: very least I enjoy that this is a movie about

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Speaker 1: like pure female friendship. And in the beginning they say,

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Speaker 1: like love your sisters and love yourself. I'm just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a nice message for you know, the tween girls

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Speaker 1: who were probably reading this and watching this. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they all are like very different and like accepting of that.

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Speaker 1: I think, with the exception of occasionally how they treat

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Speaker 1: Blake Lively, Um, they're all very accepting of each other,

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Speaker 1: and they're encouraging each other to feel good about their

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Speaker 1: body isn't about themselves, And like there's a few scenes

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Speaker 1: where America Fre's character is like being down on her

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Speaker 1: body because she is the only person in this group

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Speaker 1: who has a different body shape, no matter how many

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Speaker 1: times the movie tells you otherwise. But that said, like

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Speaker 1: when when her character expresses insecurity which is realistic for

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Speaker 1: a sixteen year old girl. They are like her friends

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Speaker 1: are super supportive and like what you know, what are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? Blah blah, and they lift each other up.

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Speaker 1: It's very nice. I think, by and large, it's a

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Speaker 1: very positive friendship that you don't see on screen a lot.

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Speaker 1: I would agree. However, if I may introduce some criticism

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Speaker 1: into the conversation, Caitlin's lighting the pants on fire. I

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Speaker 1: cannot be. She's literally lighting the pants on the fire.

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Speaker 1: So the author of this book and brush Ares, is

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Speaker 1: that how you say your name? Because it looks like

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Speaker 1: Anne bra Shares? So I wonder if she was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: my last name looks like bra Shares. What if I

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Speaker 1: write a book about girls who share a bra? Now

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Speaker 1: that's too weird. What if they share a pair of pants? Though,

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Speaker 1: that's better, Okay, I'll write this book about sharing pants.

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Speaker 1: That's the kind of idea you'd have if you drank

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Speaker 1: a tank of like boxed wine, and you're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: would be crazy if teenagers just like shared pants and

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Speaker 1: then woke up and checked her notes out the next day.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, there's something there. There's something there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's three books worth something there. So that was just

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Speaker 1: a curiosity that I had. I don't know how this

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Speaker 1: story originated, but I like to think that that's what

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Speaker 1: it was. Can we go through the rules, because I

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Speaker 1: I if listeners, if you're listening, you may not remember

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Speaker 1: the rules of the pants. Some rules make sense, others

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Speaker 1: I think there's so stuff to unpack there. I feel

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Speaker 1: like they also skipped over a lot of them because

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Speaker 1: they're like, and there's one, two, three, four, and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly seven seven. Yeah, they do skip from four to seven.

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Speaker 1: That they also break into a yoga studio, which is fun. Um. Also,

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Speaker 1: their moms aren't friends. That's confusing. Um, okay, Well, the

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Speaker 1: Sisterhood hereby in state the following rules together in the

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Speaker 1: use of the Traveling Pants. Number one, you must never

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Speaker 1: wash the pants. Hate this rule. That's rule number one.

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Speaker 1: Rule number one iant the first one that mentioned, though

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Speaker 1: this is the book canonically. Number two. You must never

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Speaker 1: double cuff the pants. It's tacky. There will never be

401
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Speaker 1: a time when this will not be taggy hardstands two.

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Speaker 1: My pants are double cuffed, right, unbelievable, I look great.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh here's a fun one. Oh yeah, they do.

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Speaker 1: They skip over I would argue maybe they skip over

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Speaker 1: the ones that are stupid. Three. You must never say

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Speaker 1: the word fat while wearing the pants, but I guess

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Speaker 1: the way it's spelled in the book is pH a

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Speaker 1: T why uh. You must also never think to yourself,

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Speaker 1: am fat while wearing the pants. They do say that

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Speaker 1: in the movie you must never let a boy take

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Speaker 1: off the pants, although you may take them off yourself

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Speaker 1: in his presence. Do they say that in the movie.

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Speaker 1: They don't. Okay, I like that. I'm okay with the

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Speaker 1: way it's written in the book. Yeah, that, but they

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Speaker 1: they use it as a way to call slut shame.

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Speaker 1: Bridget basically yeah, and she's like T. In the movie,

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Speaker 1: it's Lena, who is our you know, Charlotte Prude character,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, here's this rule, only you can take

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Speaker 1: off your own pants. And then she glares at Bridget

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Speaker 1: and then she's just like, what me, I'm bite crazy.

421
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: So that seemed a little slut shamie. But and then

422
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: the rest of them are are kind of logistical. You

423
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: have to write letters, you have to write on the pants.

424
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 1: You can't wear the pants with a tucked in shirt

425
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: and belt panting will love love your pals Love Yourself,

426
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: and then they towards the end of the movie invoke

427
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: a final rule that no matter the schedule, the pants

428
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: have to go to the girl in need. If there's

429
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: like a pants emergency. Yes, there's a pants emergency because

430
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: America Ferrera has to accept her dad's new white family

431
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: right now. So get those pants on, girl, except your

432
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: white family, or the movie can't end well. That brings

433
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 1: me to one of the criticisms I have about this narrative,

434
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: which is that three of the four stories are rooted

435
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: in one of the girl's relationship to a man. It's

436
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: um either Bridget chasing after the soccer coach that she

437
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: has a crush on, Lena and her budding relationship with Costos,

438
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: or Carmen and her relationship with her father. Yeah, so,

439
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. That is an easy way

440
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: to go for a story about teen girls. I think

441
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: that that's a really good point though, where like, I

442
00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: do feel that all four of these characters are fully

443
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: realized character for the most part, but the fact that

444
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: the core like we see them have this really positive

445
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: relationship and then they're separated and it's mostly like the

446
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: conflict is with a man with the exception of Tibby,

447
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 1: and I have like a separate issue with her narrative.

448
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Should we just take it like a gal By gal?

449
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: Let's do it? Oh before we start, though, like I

450
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: have to ask who's your faves, ladies, who's your fame? Well,

451
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: I would say I identify most closely with Tibby. I'm

452
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: a Tibby myself. Yeah, you know, I'm just like a rebel,

453
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: and I, like say asked sometimes like swear. I don't

454
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: like babies, I don't like anyone. I wonder did everyone

455
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: want to be Tippy? Because I also wanted to be Timmy,

456
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: And there was a lot of friction within my group

457
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: of who would be Tibby because I think we all

458
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: wanted to be cool. She's the cool one. She has

459
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: like the best hair. Yeah, I wanted to be Tippy,

460
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: But in reality, I don't know who I am. I

461
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. Well, I also was bridget um.

462
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: I was a soccer player at the time and I'm

463
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: still a soccer player, huge bragg um. So I was like, there,

464
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: you know, there's parts of all of them that I enjoyed.

465
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: I also, I would say my favorite character is actually

466
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: probably Carmen she's my faith. But I would say for

467
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: me personally, I feel like I'm mostly a Timby now

468
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: it's Timby a Slytherin. And also which Ninja Turtle is she?

469
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: So there's like a lot of we can really get

470
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: into it. Also, and how does this fit into the

471
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: universe of book Club? Yes, very good question. The other thing,

472
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: I well, we figured out who we are in book Club,

473
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: and that's a big relief. I was Diane, Uh, Caitlyn,

474
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 1: who are you? I don't remember. I forget. We were

475
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: so drunk at that movie. Um, I forget, but I was.

476
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: I was. I fucked the pilot, That's all I know.

477
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: I really loved that. It was not good. It was

478
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: very bad anyway. Okay, so who should we start with.

479
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: Let's start with the most borning one. Let's start with Lena. Okay,

480
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: I mean she's the most boring one. Her storyline is

481
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 1: largely her relationship with Costos and her relationship with her grandparents,

482
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: specifically her grandmother. So her grandmother finds out that she's

483
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: been seeing this boy. Their families have been feuding for

484
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: decades in this weird like west Side story like something

485
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: about fish a long time ago. And then Costos is

486
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: like all I know is that I'm sureless and you're pretty,

487
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: and so who cares about fish? And everyone's like yes.

488
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: There's a few times where that character kind of like

489
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: squeezes me out because he does keep showing up even

490
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: after she's like, no, leave me alone kind of and

491
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: he does. I don't know. I mean she rejects him

492
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: twice first when they meet, and okay, so he has

493
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: to save her. Number one they meet because she falls

494
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: into the water because she's like staring at him because

495
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: she's like, oh he cute. She like Hillary duffs directly

496
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: into a body of water, right, and then the jeans

497
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: that are supposed to be so magical get caught on

498
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: this like hook and she's like trapped underwater. So he

499
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: has to come and save her, and then she's like,

500
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: oh my god, thank you for saving my life. She's

501
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: like sitting on his boat and then he's like should

502
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: we go dancing later? And she's like no, I have

503
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: to go, and then she runs away and he's like

504
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: but what and she's like no. He also comes in

505
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: hot by being like you know, I live on this boat.

506
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: It's like this is not a brag. You should not

507
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: be telling her I don't think he lives on the boat.

508
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so I was like, surest,

509
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: I thought he was a boat person. This is not

510
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: the movie Adrift, but speaking of boats, the most important

511
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: thing about this storyline is that, much like Titanic, Lena

512
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: draws Costas like one of her Greek boys. She does

513
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 1: and she and she even does the same thing where

514
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: she's like stop, stays still and he's like no, and

515
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 1: she's like he I like him, He's just an object.

516
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: They're not cool. There is one point where Lena is

517
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: like having her her arc is like almost interesting at

518
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: certain points where she like is like I feel so

519
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: guilty because my friends have actual problems. I don't actually

520
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: have a problem, but I still feel so like closed

521
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: off and sad, which is like a very teenagery thing.

522
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, cool, I'm on board for this.

523
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: Where's this going? But then don't have those feelings right now?

524
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: It's like a marvel day. But but then it's like

525
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: she gets so stressed out that she starts taking off

526
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: her clothes and it's to jump into that and then

527
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: cost Us, why is he right there? Why is he

528
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: behind the stairs? Because he's following her all the time,

529
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: he's behind the stairs. And then he's like, I'll also

530
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: launch myself into the waves and then they and then

531
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: they hook up. They kiss um. But yeah, this is

532
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: after several times of her So after she finds out

533
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: that their families are feuding, she goes to return his shirt,

534
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: but she's like, no, I can't. We can't talk in

535
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: He's like, but it's a beautiful day, and she's like, no,

536
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: get away from me. So she rejects him a number

537
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: of times, but it but then she she does pursue

538
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: him because she goes to his fish market and then

539
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: she draws him like one of her Greek boys. And then,

540
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: much like in Titanic where Billy Zane finds the drawing,

541
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: later on her Lena's grandmother finds the drawing and she's

542
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: like what is this all about? And she's like, I

543
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: love him. This isn't nothing like a shirtless picture of

544
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: It's weird to me that they do. So it's like

545
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: a weird destination. He move it. Ultimately, it's like this

546
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: could this storyline could have been way more about like

547
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: Lena getting to know her family and Lena getting to

548
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: know her culture, a little bit would have been interesting,

549
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: and it seems like that's the direction it's going to

550
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: go to since they go through the trouble if Flying

551
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: alexis plit out to Greece. But then it's sort of

552
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: like everything else that happens could have arguably happened almost anywhere. Yeah,

553
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: so it's weird. Well, the worst part about this storyline

554
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: to me is that he gets her to realize because

555
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: this is what she says, that she can feel, she

556
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: can feel feelings and she can let love in, which,

557
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: like I suppose it would take a potential romantic partner

558
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: to help you realize that, But I don't know, that's

559
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: just become a trope where it's like close off girl

560
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: who doesn't know how to do emotions, a boy comes

561
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: around and teaches her how to do it. But and

562
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: also it doesn't make sense for like your first teen relationship.

563
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: That's more like you've been burned before, so you are

564
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: closed off and the preserving way. And I think this

565
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: is maybe one of perhaps the first time I've ever

566
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: said this in the like eighties something episodes we've done.

567
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: But there are a few underwritten male characters in this

568
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: story that make it like that never happens like the

569
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: Costos character, I don't quite know where he's coming from.

570
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: And then the same goes for Eric the soccer coach,

571
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: where it's like you don't really know that much about them.

572
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't necessarily understand what he's handsome, right,

573
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: And and for Bridget, she never goes beyond. She's not

574
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: like I love him. She just has like a very

575
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: physical attraction to him. But only young people in town, right,

576
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: just the two of them in Greece, they're young people

577
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: in right. I think I think that her realizing that

578
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: she loved him was a bit of a jump. And

579
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: this is something we see in a lot of movies

580
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: where two characters fall in love, but we don't necessarily

581
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: understand why they love each other or what is compatible

582
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: about them and their personalities, because at least one of

583
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: them is super underdeveloped. Usually it's the woman who's super

584
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: underdeveloped and we don't understand why the man loves her.

585
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: But in this case, I would argue that it's it

586
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: is the Custos. Yeah. One last thing about um Lena's character.

587
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: To me, the worst part of this storyline is that

588
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: she has this big reconciliation where she confronts her family

589
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: for being like, don't tell me who I can and

590
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: can't love, Like I'm going to make my own choices

591
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: and I can feel my own feelings. Nothing. But she

592
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: directs this to her grandfather, who has hardly said a

593
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: word in the entire movie and who she's had almost

594
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: no interactions. He spit at custas who cares she's had

595
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 1: almost all of her interactions with her grandmother, Like all

596
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: of her conversations with her family has have basically been

597
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: between Lena and her grandmother. So it doesn't make any

598
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: sense to me why she addresses It's almost like she's

599
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: seeking a man like her grandfather's a man's approval, rather

600
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: than because she's had so many of these conversations with

601
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: her grandma up till now, why wouldn't she then try

602
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: to reconcile the situation with her instead of her grandpa,

603
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: who she has barely spoken to. That's a good point.

604
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: I hadn't that. Yeah, that really that bugged me a lot,

605
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: And I was like, why is she talking to him?

606
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: We've hardly seen him on screen? Why wouldn't she direct

607
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 1: this towards her grandmother? So it just it felt like

608
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: another excuse to like, let's have some women not interacting,

609
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: but they interact so much that did it is weird

610
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: that they're not the one to resolve that. Yeah, I

611
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: don't know, perhaps a cultural thing, but it's not explained.

612
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: Should be talking about Karmen. Let's talk about Karmen. Karmen rules.

613
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: I love Karmen. Yes. Well, her whole thing, as we said,

614
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: is that she's spending the summer with her dad. She

615
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,360
Speaker 1: says very early into their hang that she hasn't spent

616
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: more than four days with him consecutively since she was

617
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 1: ten to she really excited to like hang out with

618
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: him to know better over the summer, nasic surprise, I

619
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: have a new family, um getting married to this lady.

620
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: Here are my two white teenagers that I have now.

621
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: It's also alluded to that he used to be like

622
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: super like punk rug, like I can't be tied down,

623
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: I'll never live in a house. But it's implied that

624
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: he's like sold out all of like who he used

625
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: to be, right, he says grace now. But they couldn't

626
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: even get him to go to church before and stuff

627
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: like that. Right, And it's like and that is like

628
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: implied as being important because her mom is religious, So

629
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: I I thought this was like an interesting storyline that

630
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: I have like a few little problems with, But I

631
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: don't know. I like that Carmen is as like it

632
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 1: felt kind of realistic to me that of the stuff

633
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: she put up with and then the points where she

634
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm not going to deal with this,

635
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: Like she's trying to be polite, she's trying to be

636
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: more respectful towards her dad's new life than he's ever

637
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: been towards her life, and which I think is a

638
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: very female right. But then also like hits the line

639
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: when at that dress fitting scene. Yes, I really like

640
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: I really like that scene. I like that she confronts

641
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: all the people who are basically acting as though she

642
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: is not there, that she's not a real person, or

643
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: that she's the diavalogue in that scene is a bit much.

644
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: No one would ever talk that way at a dress shop,

645
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 1: Like I hope we have enough fabric like comed Out,

646
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: you know, I understand what they're what they're trying to say, right,

647
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: And she is, aside from her mom, the only she like,

648
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: Carmen is the one woman of color in the movie.

649
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: And Maria the housekeeper, which I'll get into that in

650
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: a second, but um, yeah, that went kind of ultimately unexplored. Yeah,

651
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: like that scene, Okay, let's just talk about that scene.

652
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: So there's a moment where Lydia who who is Carmen's

653
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: dad's new wife or the lady that he's going to marry,

654
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: and she's like get out of bed. Our housekeeper has

655
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: to wash the sheets. But like she doesn't speak any English,

656
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: so like I don't really know we even watched she

657
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: ones and Carmen, who we've seen speaking Spanish. I just

658
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: thought there was going to be a scene between her

659
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: and Maria where like they speak in Spanish or like

660
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: she I wonder some ended up being like cut out

661
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: of the movie or something, because it just seems like

662
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: that's such a specific scene to set up that is

663
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: never resolved. It's like that helps us understand like even

664
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: more so, like Okay, Karmen is getting really fed up.

665
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: She like clearly her dad's new family just like does

666
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: not understand not white people and not wealthy people, and

667
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 1: like it advances her character in that way. But it's like, yeah,

668
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: why would you not have a scene with I forget

669
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: if that happens in the book. I feel like it

670
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: would have to write Marian never like speaks. Or maybe

671
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: it's so the Carmen can see that this white family

672
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: who has a woman of color as like the help.

673
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's to establish that and for

674
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: Karmen to say, like, oh, here's how this family values

675
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,479
Speaker 1: people of color and women of color like they're your

676
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: help basically, right, and that fits into the narrative of

677
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: Carmen saying literally a couple different times that she feels

678
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: like she's being erased by her dad and by his

679
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: family and that she's not being acknowledged or seen at all.

680
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: But I do agree, like I think that that scene.

681
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: I'm glad that that scene happens, but I wish that

682
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: there was a more concrete like it just seems like

683
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: there was more there that they didn't that for whatever reason,

684
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: we don't see in the movie. Right Again, I feel

685
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: like it's something does happen in the book, but I

686
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: don't specifically, I don't remember at all. But yeah, Karmen,

687
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,879
Speaker 1: Carmen and her um have a couple of different scenes together.

688
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: We don't really see the other girls interact with their

689
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,320
Speaker 1: parents that deep end. Uh. The scenes between Carmen and

690
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: her mom are mostly very nice. I think so too.

691
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: And I really like Carmen confronting her dad at the end,

692
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: Like that's a hugely emotional beat in the movie. And

693
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: I like that she stands up for herself. She questions

694
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: what her dad has been doing this whole time, and

695
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: like why he's made the choices that she has. So

696
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 1: I like that she has the agency to confront him

697
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: about that. What I don't like is that Mike can

698
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 1: say is something I like really quick. There's this shot

699
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: of Bradley Whitford whipping his head around at his own

700
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: wedding to make eye contact with his daughter. It is

701
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: such an unnecessary shot, but you've got to see it.

702
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: Whitford's hair is flying, he's in a talx, He's about

703
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 1: to deliver a monologue, and it's like this guy has

704
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: done step in Wolf. You know, Okay, sorry guy. So

705
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: that wedding. First of all, Carmen says over and over

706
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: again that she does not want to go to this wedding,

707
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: and it makes sense because she's still very angry at

708
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: her dad and he has not really done anything apologize, yeah,

709
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: to try to reconcile in any meaningful way. But whenever

710
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: the four girls regroup at the end of the summer.

711
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: They're like, we're going to take you to your dad's

712
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: wedding and she's like, I don't want to go to that,

713
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, but you're gonna you want to go.

714
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: You have to. So I it really annoyed me. And

715
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: maybe this is just some personal baggage that I'm bringing

716
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: to the table, but like bringing it that her friends

717
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: were like, hey, you know how, you're really really mad

718
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: at your dad. Uh, we're gonna make you go see

719
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: him anyway. And in the fact that she keeps protesting,

720
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: and even when they're in the car, she's like, can

721
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 1: we turn around, like I don't want to go to

722
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: this when they're like the rest stop, Like when she's

723
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: putting the jeans on, she's like, can we not do this?

724
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to go. And the fact that she

725
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: keeps expressing this is not something I want, This is

726
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: not really something I'm ready for. I'm still angry at

727
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: my dad, and they're just like, no, no, go do

728
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: it because you have he's your daddy. You have to

729
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: love your dad. And the fact that she just kept

730
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: protesting and they kind of forced her into it really

731
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: upset me. And it also means that this movie ends

732
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: in a wedding, and it makes no fucking sense of

733
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: a movie like this to end in a wedding. I

734
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: feel like I don't remember how the book ends, and

735
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: maybe it ends in a wedding also, but either way,

736
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: I feel like whoever was responsible for this, they're like,

737
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 1: we have a girl movie. There's a movie for girls.

738
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: It's a movie by girls. Some but they're not old

739
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 1: enough to get married, but but we can still. We

740
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: have to. A movie like this has to end in

741
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: a wedding. Well, they need a big finish. They can't

742
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: just be like, okay, we're all home again, let's go

743
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: to school. Now there's kind of a wedding. So that's

744
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: a good version of this movie that ends with them

745
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: back at the yoga studio. Yeah, I would have liked

746
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 1: that way better. And if you need some big event,

747
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe like Bridget has a big soccer game,

748
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: or like, I don't know, something else. But like the

749
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: fact that this movie ends in a wedding when it

750
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: doesn't really make any sense and is very unnecessary, especially

751
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: because the person whose wedding it is has wronged Carmen

752
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: for her pretty much entire life and still hasn't really

753
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 1: apologized for it or acknowledged that he has done anything wrong.

754
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: The popular male fallacy just apologize one time. Any good

755
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: right years of damage can be undone by just being

756
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: like sorry. Maybe. So that really bothered me about this

757
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: storyline where Carmen like she's strong enough to stand up

758
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: to like the people in the dress shop. She is

759
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: challenging her dad in different ways in the family by

760
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: like just speaking Spanish and they're like, oh god, Spanish.

761
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: We're like, we don't speak that in this household. And

762
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: at the end when she has the phone call with

763
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 1: her dad where she very clearly outlines all the feelings

764
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: that she has why she's angry with him, and it's

765
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: all very valid, and then she's still is like, yeah, okay,

766
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: final go to this wedding and he just he'll just

767
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: hug me and say I'm sorry and then it's fine.

768
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: I just I feel like that really sold her out.

769
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: I feel like you, I think that, yeah, I've been

770
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: cool if she didn't go, if she was like, I

771
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: don't want to go. I'm still really angry at my

772
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: dad and I'm not ready for this. More supportive friends

773
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: would have been like, Okay, we except that you're not

774
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: ready and we totally understand you, and let's just all

775
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: go to a movie instead. How epic would that be?

776
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: Like a big scene where they're like super close to

777
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: the wedding, like they've driven all the way, and then

778
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: she's like, you know what, I don't think I can

779
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: skirt there, like okay, and then they do something else

780
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: where they were like, oh, we shouldn't have made you

781
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: go here. Okay, well let's go see the movie. And

782
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: then they go and they see Sisterhood of the Traveling

783
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: Pants and that the movie just starts over I love it.

784
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: Or they see an adaptation of the video game that

785
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: Brian McBrien was playing, The Dragon Slayer, which would have

786
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 1: been a great movie because it would have been about

787
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: a guy who has to save a woman from a

788
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: dragon that a huge feminist masterpiece. Perfect be cool more

789
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: if they were just like talking about, like, well, what

790
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: movie should we see? And then like the dialogue sort

791
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: of like starts, the volume starts to go down, and

792
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: then it's a crane shot and so then the cameras

793
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,319
Speaker 1: like zooming away in and then the music comes in.

794
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: Feeling right on your skin Yeah, of course great ending

795
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 1: with that, that would have been a jarring and beautiful

796
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: moment in cinema. Well, let's take a quick little breaky break,

797
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back and dish on more the

798
00:45:49,920 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: gals and we're back. Hi. We should we talk about next? Well,

799
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: let's get into Tibby's story a little bit. She's home

800
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,919
Speaker 1: for this summer. She's the art girl. Sure, her hair

801
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: is not the color that is started as she got

802
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: a camera. There are parts of her that remind me

803
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: of Mark from Rent in ways that I don't like

804
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: of just like I'm just going to make a movie.

805
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: Quality doesn't matter to me, and but I think Tibby

806
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: does a better job. It just seems like Tibby has

807
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: like basically I don't know how much of it is

808
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: by choice and how much of it is out of necessity.

809
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: It's like sort of not clear, but she has taken

810
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: on more responsibility than the other girls, and that she's

811
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: like she doesn't go anywhere. She has a job, she's

812
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: taking care of her little sister, and she also ends

813
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: up sort of taking care of this younger girl, Bailey,

814
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: who I just this is a weird like a weird

815
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: permutation of something that we see all the time, which

816
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: is like a character with a terminal illness sort of

817
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: being exploited to have a main character, a main able bodied,

818
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: healthy character grow as a person like Bailey dies so

819
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: that narratively, Amber Tamblin can be like I understand the

820
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: world better like and it's so lame. The normal setup

821
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: for this I hate even more, which is like a

822
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: walk to remember fault in our stars, like oh my

823
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: girlfriend got cancer and died, so I respect women now

824
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: like that love that story, has seen that one cried

825
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: at that one. Um. This is like a different version

826
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: of it. And it's even like it's it's listed on

827
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: TV trips, which is like a website we pull from

828
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: a lot, but it's called Little as Cancer Patient and

829
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: it is I mean, it shows up in teel a

830
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: lot too of just like hospital shows a lot a

831
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: sick kid who imparts wisdom so the main character can grow.

832
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: And it sucks because I think at the beginning, Bailey

833
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: and Tibby have this dynamic that's really cool, and and

834
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: then it's revealed that she has leukemia. She didn't want

835
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: to tell Tibby because she thought Tiby would treat her

836
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: differently she's correct, Tippy does begin to treat her differently,

837
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: but then Bailey starts to actually differently exactly, so it

838
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: ends up sort of being like, well, of course Tippy's

839
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 1: treating you differently. You're suddenly just speaking in like euphemisms,

840
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,320
Speaker 1: and where she was like this really interesting dynamic, like

841
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: little combative kid character a better documentarian than Tippy. Right

842
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, once we find out she has leukemia.

843
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 1: There's that nice scene where Tibby is honest and it's like,

844
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll treat you differently. I don't know,

845
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: which is like a tricky spot to be in, especially

846
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: when you're sixteen. But then Bailey does a one eighty

847
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: and and everything that comes out of her mouth this

848
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: is like, look at the start that I don't know

849
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: if I'm going to get like every scene she's in,

850
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to get to see

851
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: one of these again. You're just like, can you stop?

852
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: Like you said just I think the movie or the

853
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: book or both probably sell that character out in a

854
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: kind of cheesy, dumb way that ends up like I

855
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: don't know, it just like makes it less impactful. And

856
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: then also that Bailey's death, it's implied like brings Tibby

857
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: and Brian Mcbrian the gas station chowed closer, like it's like, oh,

858
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: so Bailey died so that Amber Tamlin could chill out

859
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: a little bit and maybe date that loser at the

860
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: gas station. It's like they're I don't know, just a cheesy,

861
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: badly written storyline for for me, yeah, I do appreciate

862
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: that was the one that didn't tie one of the

863
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 1: girls to a man, but it still isn't handled well

864
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: because in a different yeah, okay, and then we've got

865
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: be We've got Blake Lively, Brigitte Um and her deal

866
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: is she goes to stop her camp in Mexico. She's

867
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 1: the sporting spice of the group. Um, she's a thoughtic,

868
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: she's gooding soccer, she's boy crazy, she lost a parent.

869
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: Like they're all they're all pretty well written out, even

870
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: when it's like the notes they're hitting are pretty like, okay,

871
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: this tend stab and in every teen story, like one

872
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: character doesn't have a mom, when character is a little

873
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: boy crazy, one character play a sport. It's still I

874
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: don't know it it comes together. I think in at

875
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: least an interesting way, but her character is weird the

876
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: way they handle her stories kind of all over the

877
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: place where we should just I mean, we can only

878
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: address this to an extent, but like it's probably not

879
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: a dent legal. What is happening between her and this

880
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: soccer coach. It's in Mexico. Baby, she's but they say

881
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: she's sixteen, he's twenty one. He's also her counselor. It

882
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: is at very least a fireball offense. If not, I

883
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: don't know what the laws in two thousand five in

884
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: this location were, but even so, it's like it's and

885
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: this happens in like I think like trashy or teen

886
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: fair than this. I'm thinking pretty little liars because p

887
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: l L Episode one, she is like I'm like six,

888
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna funk my teacher, and then and then we're

889
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: rooting for them for years. Like it's not that level,

890
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: but it is like the story excuses him because it's

891
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: like she's my my feeling and if you feel feel differently,

892
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: let me know. But like my feeling is like the

893
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: story is telling us like, well, she's coming on so strong,

894
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: like he couldn't resist. Where it's like he's a grown

895
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 1: person and he should resist at least in order to

896
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: keep his job, but whatever. I think that's definitely one

897
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: of the problems of this storyline. Another one is just

898
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: how the movie in narrative in general handles sex, which

899
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: is like, so, let's try to break this down. So

900
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this in real time. You know, she's

901
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: established as like the boy crazy one. She spots this

902
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: guy Eric, and she's like him, he's going to be

903
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: so she goes after him pretty aggressively, where she's finding

904
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: random excuses to talk to him. She follows him to

905
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 1: a cantina and makes him dance with her. There's one

906
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 1: point in voiceover she's like, the rules don't apply to

907
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: when a girl likes the boy. I was like, oh,

908
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 1: this is not a good president. She says something like

909
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed and obsessed girls can't control themselves or something

910
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: like that, and it's like Blake. Also the fact that Blake,

911
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: like most of the actresses in this movie are older,

912
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: like four or five years older than the character they're playing,

913
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: but Blake Lively is actually sixteen seventeen at the time

914
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: of filming this, which makes me feel even more uncomfortable

915
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: with it. But whatever, Okay, continue so she pursues him,

916
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: and he is looked into some degree just because he

917
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: knows that this shouldn't be happening because he's one of

918
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: the coaches and the counselors and she's you know, at

919
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: the camp and that dynamic is you know, he feels

920
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 1: that it's not okay for them to engage in any

921
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: sort of relationship. But he eventually succumbs, and then it's

922
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: implied that she loses her virginity to him. Um, because

923
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: then she writes a letter to I think it's t

924
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 1: Lena who says, like, how is something that's supposed to

925
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: make you feel so complete? It's leaving me feeling so empty?

926
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: And one I don't like that they don't explicitly say

927
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: that she has sex, because it's like, okay, if you're

928
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: gonna have a character have sex, then talk about like

929
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: say it. I would guess this is a ratings issue. Um,

930
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: But the same thing happens in the book where it's

931
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: like very okay, So it it isn't explicitly stated in

932
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: the book, right, And I remember being really angry at

933
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: the book when I was reading it, being like, if

934
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: your characters are old enough to have sex and talk

935
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: about like then explicitly say it and then have a

936
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: responsible discussion about it. But the aftermath of that is

937
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: that she feels she kind of sinks into a depression

938
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: and she's left with these feelings of emptiness. And it

939
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 1: could be because she's still experiencing the grief of her

940
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: mother committing suicide and how she maybe pursued this guy

941
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: as a way to like deal with those feelings of grief. Um,

942
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: and then when that didn't help or fix anything in

943
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,280
Speaker 1: terms of the grief she was feeling, then she feels empty.

944
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: I see. But I think there's like little parts that

945
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like. But for the most part,

946
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: although I do agree that if they're going to do

947
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: the storyline, you have to say that they had sex

948
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: and their wise, it's just like, what what what is

949
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: this movie rated? It's p G, I believe, and I

950
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: think that that probably and if this movie isn't p G,

951
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 1: then like there's no point anything releasing it, you know,

952
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: because it's Yeah, but I don't know the way that

953
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: it resolved, because I felt like that storyline was resolved

954
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: mostly to my satisfaction. Let's we'll get to how they

955
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: treat mental illness and suicide. That's almost an entirely separate

956
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: issue because that is not done well. But in terms

957
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 1: of how they handle her rigidity, I do. I mean,

958
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: I feel like that is like a fairly common thing

959
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: for like a teenage girl who loses her virginity to

960
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is built up in my head

961
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: partially because of like media consumption, yea, how people present

962
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: that to you so that when it does happen and

963
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I did it, and now this this

964
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: and this is supposed to happen, and I'm supposed to

965
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: feel this way that I've seen movies, and and then

966
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: when that doesn't happen, like that is a confusing feeling totally,

967
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: And I think her feelings are valid or like the

968
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: aftermath of that, and you know, this experience of sex

969
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 1: like not meeting her expectations or you know, maybe feeling

970
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 1: even some shame or whatever touched that. I think that's

971
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: very normal for you know, like a teen girl to feel.

972
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: And then we see the way that comes around and

973
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,840
Speaker 1: again it's like the character that she loses her virginity

974
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: two is so underwritten and we literally know nothing about

975
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: him other than he is her soccer coach and shouldn't

976
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,880
Speaker 1: be having sex with her. He loves the endorphins that

977
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: come with soccer. The endorphins ruled like Eric, Wow, Eric

978
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 1: really really a keeper this Eric. But Eric comes back

979
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: at the end too, I guess apologize or he sort

980
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: of comes back to make sure she's okay, was my interpretation,

981
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: and like do that thing that sometimes men will do

982
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 1: of like, Hey, I don't know if I have anything

983
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: to apologize for, but if I do, I'm sorry, and

984
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: you're just like okay, and if I don't, And if

985
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 1: I don't, then I guess I'll just go home. Great, really,

986
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: sincere seems like you've really thought this way the fuck out.

987
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: But you know, he comes back to check in with her,

988
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,719
Speaker 1: and I thought I liked how she she dealt with

989
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: it where she and again we'll get to the conversation

990
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 1: that they actually have. But she had talked about it

991
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 1: with her close friends, she had sought outside perspective, she'd

992
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: asked for help. She thought about it and sort of

993
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that like, yeah, like losing her

994
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: dudy and having sex with someone is not going to

995
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 1: fix problems. And she sort of by the end, from

996
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: what I could tell, had recognized and made peace with that.

997
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: I like that the story doesn't force stuff the way

998
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: it does with Lena's character of like maybe there's like

999
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: a future for us. That's not implied at all. She's

1000
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: just like, Nope, have a nice year at school. Like

1001
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: there's no implication that she I guess right, Like there was,

1002
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: just like the implication with her that character for me

1003
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, there's a way that like you can

1004
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: have sex as a woman and not be like madly

1005
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 1: in love with the person you're having sex with. That's

1006
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: something that's not presented very often in movies, and especially

1007
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: not with like young women. So I thought that, I

1008
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I liked how that storyline resolved, right. I

1009
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: think what bothers me about the way that like sex

1010
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: is handled in this movie is that because that's pretty

1011
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 1: much the only representation we see of a woman having

1012
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: a sexual experience with someone, and then the aftermath we

1013
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: see of that is like, oh, well, then you feel

1014
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: empty and you'd feel depressed and then and I think

1015
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: we as the audience can glean that it's because she

1016
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: hasn't properly dealt with her mom's suicide. But I don't

1017
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: know if the movie connects those two things, where like

1018
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: she has sex because she's trying to fill a void,

1019
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: and the emptiness she feels is actually because of her

1020
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: mom's suicide and not necessarily because of the sex she had.

1021
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: I think that because there's a lot of like stuff

1022
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 1: conflated there, and this is the only the representation we

1023
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: see on screen of a woman having a sexual experience.

1024
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: I'm worried that like young girls will see this and

1025
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: be like, oh well, no, like losing your virginity is

1026
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: a bad thing that makes you feel really bad and

1027
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: comes with a lot of shame, and like, I don't know,

1028
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: maybe she doesn't really have shame by the end. That's true.

1029
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: That's why I felt okay about it, was like you

1030
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,720
Speaker 1: see her because again that seems that's another to my experience,

1031
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: Like a realistic part of that experience is like feeling

1032
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: shitty about it and like questioning it and like what

1033
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: do I do? And at least I don't know. She

1034
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: seems comfortable with herself and with her decision by the

1035
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,439
Speaker 1: end of the movie, and in that way, I feel

1036
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: okay about it. The great girl did she have sex? No,

1037
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: she just what it needed it Like one girl that

1038
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: was like it was the best ever and then also

1039
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: had like weird one so that kids can see like

1040
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, there's a spectr. But then also that

1041
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: would have been a problem of sexual experience. That would

1042
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 1: have been problematic too, because Coastas was older than her.

1043
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: He was also like a college student. She was sixteen,

1044
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: not Brian mcbrian age appropriate shorty. No, I have no

1045
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: idea how old he was. Probably he was probably the

1046
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: oldest sting. He was probably like, oh, yeah, I have

1047
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: a couple of kids I should be feeding. Um. Well,

1048
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: I liked what was going on with the soccer girl

1049
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: because she does say like I just thought if I

1050
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: would act happy that, but you know, I think she's

1051
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: encoded rated pig language, saying I was trying to be

1052
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: like slutty and flirty and fun and brave and no

1053
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: shame that I was forcing that because I thought it

1054
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: made it made her numb or something or like whatever.

1055
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: My mom died, that's fine, right, like forcing yourself through

1056
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: the grief process instead of dealing with the emotions, which

1057
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: it seems like, yeah, by the end, it's like that

1058
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 1: is definitely not resolved. But it seems like she at

1059
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 1: least understands that that's like work she has to do.

1060
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: I don't like the mental illness and suicide thing is

1061
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: an there's a very very dated take where Bridget's mother

1062
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 1: committed suicide. The way it's spoken about in the scene,

1063
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: the very expository scene at her funeral is very shamy

1064
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: and weird, where it's just like we'll never know why

1065
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: she did this terrible thing. It's like, okay, we're feeling

1066
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: Priest turned it down to a six. But but anyways,

1067
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: like Bridget is like worried that she's going to become

1068
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: like depressive like her mother and that she will be

1069
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: susceptible to the same feelings. I think that was a

1070
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: cool thing to express as like a concern, but the

1071
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: way her friends respond to it is very strange. Of like,

1072
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 1: I think Carmen's character is like, you're stronger than your mom,

1073
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: and I was, yeah, she says Karmen says, you have

1074
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: a strengthen you that your mother never had, which is

1075
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: implying like, oh, because your mother suffered from mental illness,

1076
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: she was she was strong, and she just didn't want

1077
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,479
Speaker 1: to live enough to fight for her life. And it's like, well,

1078
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: that's just not at all what mental illness. Mean, yeah,

1079
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: and just a mean thing to say to friend. I mean,

1080
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: she didn't really deserve to live because she wasn't strong

1081
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: enough when you think about it, right, it's just and

1082
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: it's like it's presented in this way that it's like

1083
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: they're trying to help, but it's not the right message

1084
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: to be sending, which is realistic. Yeah, but in this

1085
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 1: this example, I actually like they have to deal with

1086
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: it right. They have to deal with it right so

1087
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: that teenage girls seeing the movie have a template of

1088
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: how to deal with a situation like this in a

1089
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: way that is not bad because the way Bridget's character responds,

1090
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: it's like okay, and then you're just like no, now

1091
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 1: she thinks that her mom was. Like this whole movie

1092
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: deals with death in a very strange way, whether it's

1093
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: Bailey's death or Bridget's mom's death, it's all a little

1094
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: bit off the right to deal with it. But yeah,

1095
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: there's I mean, between that and the way the movie

1096
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: deals with sex and the way the movie fails to

1097
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: deal with race, I do think that it does a

1098
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 1: decent job of dealing with like body image, Like that's

1099
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: the one thing that it touches on and sort of

1100
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 1: gets right, but yeah, there's a lot of things that

1101
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 1: it mishandles. Yeah, it is very dated done okay for

1102
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:43,920
Speaker 1: the time that like America Ferarra her character acknowledged struggles

1103
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: of being a Latina um Whereas I feel like a

1104
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 1: lot of movies are just like quote unquote color blind,

1105
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: Like the cast is different colors, but they're all just like, yeah,

1106
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: I mean I live in a world where we don't

1107
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 1: see race. Kind of like going back to what you

1108
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: were saying earlier, Caitlin, of like if we pit this

1109
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: movie against other like groups of teenage girls movies, I

1110
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 1: think this movie does very well. Where Like if we're

1111
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: pitting it against the craft, which we bring up a

1112
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: lot of the one woman of color in that movie

1113
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 1: is like, consider, we just don't really so at all,

1114
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: Like they're just like we don't know how to write

1115
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: a character that's not white, so we're just not going

1116
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: to write at least, you know, for this movie. Shortcomings, Yeah,

1117
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: the fact that Karmen is vocal and like that's explored

1118
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 1: and we can talk about this and it's fine. I

1119
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: don't love that. The end of her narrative is like

1120
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: and now I love my dad's white family. It's like,

1121
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: that is stupid. Yeah, it's like it's cool to hate

1122
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: your dad. It seems likely actually really shafted you. I

1123
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: feel like, yeah. Well, so the movie was based on

1124
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:58,160
Speaker 1: a novel written by brausch Airs brasch Airs from a

1125
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: White Woman screenplay written by Elizabeth Chandler and Delia Efron,

1126
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: which is Nora Fron's sister m to White Women, directed

1127
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: by can whatever you can look it up, who is

1128
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: a white dude. So I think that it could have

1129
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: handled a discussion about race a little more responsibly than

1130
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: it did, But because a lot of the major players

1131
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: of this movie are white people, doesn't go as far

1132
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:34,479
Speaker 1: as it could have. Yeah, so shall we discuss whether

1133
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: not the movie passes the Bechdel test a lot of

1134
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: different times, a lot of different female characters who all

1135
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: talk to each other. Sometimes they do talk about men,

1136
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: either like Carmen's dad or Eric the soccer coach, or

1137
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: Costa's but largely they are talking about pants, number one, um, documentary, filmmaking, soccer,

1138
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff, and a number of like character combos.

1139
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: It passes with it is pretty impressive. Carmen and her

1140
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:09,760
Speaker 1: mom to be and Bailey Um yeah, all kinds of combos.

1141
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: Hot combos passes the Mary Hula hand test, which is

1142
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: where a movie has has to have several scenes where

1143
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: women talk about pants with each other. Well, we do

1144
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: come up on this a lot where often we find

1145
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 1: that if a movie does pass the Becto test, the

1146
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: women are either talking about clothing or food. This happens

1147
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot. That is true. Else you're gonna talk about

1148
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 1: there's nothing else, Jamie. Um, I love your shirt and

1149
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: your and I love the way you make pasta. Man,

1150
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 1: it's too bad because all my clothes look bad and

1151
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 1: I can't cook. So I just mostly don't speak. I

1152
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: have no option. There's nothing else for me to talk about.

1153
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 1: I don't say keep my damn mouses. Sometimes they talk

1154
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 1: about cancer. They also talk about illness, akemia. Yeah, they

1155
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: talk about the last YEA. Let's rate it on our

1156
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: nipple scale, where we rate the movie based on its

1157
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: portrayal of women on a scale of zero to five

1158
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 1: nipples five being the best. I'm going to give it

1159
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: three and a half because this movie's existence in the

1160
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: world I think is net positive um for the audience.

1161
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,680
Speaker 1: It's reaching. It's really nice to see a movie about

1162
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: girls of this age who are in a friendship with

1163
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,439
Speaker 1: each other and who don't turn on each other. They

1164
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: are all extremely supportive and very different and very different

1165
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,160
Speaker 1: and fairly well written and well developed. Although we do

1166
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 1: see some sort of tropy characters, and that we were

1167
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: able to pretty much closely align them with all of

1168
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,439
Speaker 1: the Sex and the City characters, and you know, any

1169
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: other group of foursome we could figure out, you know,

1170
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: which one is which Ninja turtle or whatever. So but

1171
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: even so, they are distinguishable enough that, um, we can

1172
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 1: easily identify them and their characters, which says a lot

1173
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: for um, a female character in a movie, because usually

1174
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,559
Speaker 1: they're hard to describe because they're so underwritten that you

1175
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: just simply can't do that. Um. So that's nice, and

1176
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 1: it's a depiction of female friendship, which is really positive

1177
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: and supportive. I don't especially care for the fact that

1178
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: three of the four storylines do center around one of

1179
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:37,320
Speaker 1: the girls relationship to a man, because I think, you know,

1180
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: why not one of the girls have a relationship like

1181
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: an issue with her mother or another female family member.

1182
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: Why not another friendship with another woman something like that,

1183
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:50,600
Speaker 1: Like the fact that half of them are romantic and

1184
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: then one of the other ones is about a difficult

1185
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: relationship with their father. I just like there were opportunities

1186
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: to have other types of stories and or relationship that

1187
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: just did not actually get explored in this movie. Two boyfriends,

1188
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: one daddy and a cancer patient. Maybe yes and not great.

1189
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 1: And as we discussed it, mishandles several different things. It

1190
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 1: could be more sex positive, it could handle a discussion

1191
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: of race more responsibly. You could do the same thing

1192
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: for mental illness. But overall, I think that for the time,

1193
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: for the audience, this movie is reaching. I think it's

1194
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 1: generally pretty well done and positive. So three and a

1195
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 1: half nipples And in the interest of not giving any

1196
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: nipples away to teenage girls because that feels wrong, UM,

1197
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: give it to them today today, okay America, for Era

1198
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: today in two thousand and eighteen. I give all three

1199
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: and a half of my nipples to her. Okay, she

1200
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,080
Speaker 1: is fairs. I love when we give away nipples like

1201
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 1: spare tires. Um I'm gonna I'm good with the three

1202
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,040
Speaker 1: and a half as well. Yeah, there's there's definitely a

1203
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: few topics this movie tackles in a dated way. Um.

1204
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 1: I do wish that they would just outright say that

1205
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: sex happened. It was confusing that they didn't, but that, Yeah,

1206
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: I think that this is, especially for this time, pretty

1207
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: much as good as it gets in terms of in

1208
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,479
Speaker 1: movie is. I think there were some TV shows that

1209
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: did it well, and some of the TV shows, uh,

1210
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: this cast are like in that deal with it very well.

1211
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: Not Gossip Girl though that one. But yeah, I like

1212
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,479
Speaker 1: this movie a lot. I don't like cancer kid tropes,

1213
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: I don't like mishandling of depression, but I do like

1214
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: most of what happens in this movie. I think it's good.

1215
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: I got three and a half nipples I'm gonna give oh. Also,

1216
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to say that the director male director of

1217
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,640
Speaker 1: this movie also directed a really bad, really real stinky.

1218
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: He also directed He's Just Got That Into You, which

1219
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: is we should do that movie on the podcast because

1220
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: I have a lot to say. Director ken Kuopis exists

1221
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: on a spectrum of good to bad. Anyways, also on

1222
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 1: this like it was a clickbait that made me well

1223
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: up last night. They're all still friends tonight. They hung

1224
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:17,840
Speaker 1: out recently because America Forever is pregnant and now all

1225
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: four of them are going to be mothers and there's

1226
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:21,839
Speaker 1: a lot of cute Instagram posts and I highly recommend

1227
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: that you check out now. I love that. Do you

1228
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: think that kids are going to be friends and you

1229
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: have a sisterhood of traveling pants? I that would be

1230
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: so funny if their moms were like, you should all

1231
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 1: share a pair of pants and they'd be like, no,

1232
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: what is this? Um? But I love that they're also friends.

1233
01:11:43,680 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 1: My three nips, I'll give one to America, one to Amber,

1234
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: one to blake An Alexa's longest a half. Sorry, Mary,

1235
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 1: what would you rate this movie? I gave it three nips?

1236
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: Who are you giving your nips to myself? Well, she's empowered,

1237
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,040
Speaker 1: She's taken them back like the nips. Cool? So Mary,

1238
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: where can we find you? On social meats at Mary

1239
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,080
Speaker 1: Hooley in a R Y h o U l I

1240
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: e um. I'm on Instagram and Twitter, so look at

1241
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 1: those cool. You can find us on Instagram, on Twitter,

1242
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,479
Speaker 1: on website, on other places all at bytel Cast and

1243
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 1: we are now on the house stuff Works network. But

1244
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you can't still join our patreon

1245
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: ak Matreon, which is patreon dot com. Slash backtel Cast

1246
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 1: five bucks a month gets you two extra exclusive episodes

1247
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,719
Speaker 1: A wow, and they're good and they're can they're good.

1248
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: They're all recorded in Caitlin's bed, and so they're kind

1249
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: of intimate as well. They're a little bit like, they're

1250
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: a little rough around the edges. We talk story, we

1251
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 1: I feel like we swear more. It gets wild and anyways,

1252
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: so sign up for the Patreon. I'm on Twitter at

1253
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: Jamie laft as help, and I'm at Caitlin Darante and

1254
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: I guess we'll just talk to you fucking next time. Guys. Hey, Jamie,

1255
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: can I borrow your pair of pants that also fit me? Yes?

1256
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: I hope you don't mind going? Oh yeah, what are

1257
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: the parameters on going commando in these pants? No rules?

1258
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: No rules? Make a third movie and we'll find out.

1259
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:24,919
Speaker 1: We'll find out, all right. Bye,