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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcasts

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Speaker 1: for conversations focusing on the business side of media and entertainment.

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Speaker 1: I'm Corey Erickson, media analyst for a variety intelligence platform.

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Speaker 1: Delphi Interactive is a new company licensing some of the

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Speaker 1: biggest franchises in entertainment and partnering them with independent gaming

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Speaker 1: studios to bring those properties to life as new Triple

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Speaker 1: A Video Games CEO Casper Dugarde and president Andy Kleinman

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Speaker 1: joined me to discuss what they refer to as the

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Speaker 1: publishing industrial complex and their plans to circumvent gaming's biggest

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Speaker 1: entities to deliver new experiences for the unpredictable console and

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Speaker 1: PC gaming market. Having hired former Nordis Game CEO Michael

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Speaker 1: Wider as Delphi's managing partner in Europe, who joins a

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Speaker 1: small staff of talent from leading publishers like Rockstar, EA

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Speaker 1: and Activision, Douguarde and Climate discuss their current issues with

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Speaker 1: Triple A Gaming and how they aim to follow Io

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Speaker 1: Interactive's Project Double seven with more games based on some

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Speaker 1: of traditional media's biggest franchises. Welcome back to Strictly Business.

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Speaker 1: I'm Corey Erickson, media analyst with Wariety Intelligence Platform, and

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Speaker 1: I'm joined today by the founder and CEO of Delphi

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Speaker 1: Interactive and its president. Why don't you to introduce yourselves.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having his own Corey. My name is Casper

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Speaker 2: Dougard and I'm the founder and CEO of Delphi.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Andy Kleinman, President of Delphi.

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Speaker 1: So how did Delphi get launched and how did the

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Speaker 1: two of you come together?

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Speaker 2: I think the impetus for forming Delphi was when I

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Speaker 2: was working in Los Angeles in the film and TV

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Speaker 2: space with underutilized intellectual properties training, you know, into film

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Speaker 2: and TV projects, and one of the types of IP

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Speaker 2: that I was most interested in was gaming IP. I'd

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Speaker 2: always been a big gamer myself, and so I had

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Speaker 2: a chance to meet with a lot of Triple A

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Speaker 2: gaming studios and talk to them about adapting their games

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Speaker 2: and their IP into film or TV projects. But I

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Speaker 2: also learned a lot about the business of Triple A Games,

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Speaker 2: which is sort of this mysterious business that was huge

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Speaker 2: but also sort of hiding in plain sight, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't know much about it, and based on everything I learned,

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Speaker 2: I developed this sort of secret thesis about Triple A

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Speaker 2: games that became the genesis of Delphi. And the thesis

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Speaker 2: is that most people believe that if you want to

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Speaker 2: make a big Triple A game, you can only do

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Speaker 2: it if you involve one of the big traditional global

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Speaker 2: gaming publishers like EA or Ubisoft, one of these huge corporations.

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Speaker 2: But the truth is that nowadays, in the era of

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Speaker 2: digital game just tribution, we believe that if you have

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Speaker 2: access to a beloved global intellectual property, and you have

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Speaker 2: access to capital to develop and market a game, and

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Speaker 2: you have access to the best independent development talent, you

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Speaker 2: can actually make a successful triple A game outside of

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Speaker 2: what we now lovingly refer to as the publisher industrial

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Speaker 2: complex that sort of traditionally oligopolized the Triple A space.

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Speaker 2: So instead of turning games into film and TV, I

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Speaker 2: had this epiphany that I wanted to do the opposite

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Speaker 2: in reverse and turn the best film and TV into

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Speaker 2: games and use this new thesis. So long story short,

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Speaker 2: one of the studios that I met with was in

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Speaker 2: my hometown of Copenhagen, where I met Io Interactive. I

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Speaker 2: owe the creators of Hitman, which is one of the

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Speaker 2: most beloved stealth and espionage franchises and I'd been a

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Speaker 2: huge fan of Io since I was a teenager, and

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Speaker 2: they had recently done this really fearless management buyout to

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Speaker 2: become an independent Triple A studio, and we just really

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Speaker 2: hit it off and we were philosophically aligned and that

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Speaker 2: we wanted to work on something together. And so long

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Speaker 2: story boring. In twenty twenty, Delphi intered into an agreement

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Speaker 2: to license the rights from Dan Jack and MGM to

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Speaker 2: do a Triple A PC console James Bond Double seven game,

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Speaker 2: to be developed and published by Iro Interactive in association

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Speaker 2: with Delphi. And that's about all we can say right

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Speaker 2: now about Project Double oh seven other than what you

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Speaker 2: can read in the news. It's a stealthy project.

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Speaker 3: And to answer the question about how we met, Corey

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Speaker 3: Casper and I met years ago in la and we

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Speaker 3: became friends and we were interested in a lot of

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Speaker 3: the same things, especially around entertainment and the evolution of

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Speaker 3: games and entertainment, and when he started putting the Chains

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Speaker 3: Bond project together, I became an advisor to the company.

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Speaker 3: I've been working with license ip and games over the years,

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Speaker 3: particularly at places like Scope, Lee, Disney, and Zinga, and

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Speaker 3: so as Project Double seven came together. We saw a

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Speaker 3: very clear opportunity to replicate the model with more games,

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Speaker 3: expand the Delphi team, and that's when I became fully

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Speaker 3: involved in the company.

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Speaker 1: In terms of expanding the team. Who else of note

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Speaker 1: has been drawn into Delphi's orbit.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're you know, we've been as we've been refining

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Speaker 2: and now also replicating the thesis that we developed for

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Speaker 2: Project Double seven. We've you know, we've we've encountered some

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Speaker 2: really great minds in the Triple A industry who've become

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Speaker 2: interested in what it is that we're doing. And we're

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Speaker 2: actually pretty excited to announce that Michael Weider has joined Delphi.

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Speaker 2: Mikael was the founder and CEO of Nordist Games, which

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Speaker 2: is one of the biggest gaming companies in Scandinavia. He

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Speaker 2: essentially blit scaled Nordis Games from one employee to thirteen

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Speaker 2: hundred in just a few years, and he acquired several

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Speaker 2: Triple A studios, including Avalanche in Sweden and Supermassive in

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Speaker 2: the UK. And he did all of that outside of

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Speaker 2: the traditional publisher system.

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Speaker 3: Our team is about we're about a dozen people. We

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Speaker 3: believe in this idea of being very lean and hired

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Speaker 3: the best people for sort of the central Delphi team,

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Speaker 3: and then we worked with all these external partners. So

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Speaker 3: there's about two hundred and fifty people working on Delphi

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Speaker 3: games across our partners. And it's interesting, like when we

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Speaker 3: started talking to people and just getting validation on the

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Speaker 3: thesis and thinking about how do we scale this model,

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Speaker 3: we were talking to some of the most accomplished people,

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Speaker 3: talented people that we need you in Triple A games

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Speaker 3: just to get their opinions, just to get advice, and

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Speaker 3: we were quickly learning that those people were excited or

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Speaker 3: were doing to the point that they wanted to join.

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Speaker 3: And what we realized was that if you're an accomplished

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Speaker 3: person in triple A games like you don't have that

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Speaker 3: many options to do what you love. You either have

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Speaker 3: to have a long career inside one of these big publishers,

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Speaker 3: but if you want to be an entrepreneur, there's not

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Speaker 3: that many options. And so Delphi became the sort of

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Speaker 3: clear alternative to doing this independently. And so we've attracted

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Speaker 3: some great people into this core team. You know, people

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Speaker 3: that we were big fans of that came from Rockstar games,

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Speaker 3: from electronic cards, from Activision, who are now part of Delphi.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk more about what you consider this publishing industrial complex.

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Speaker 1: What is it about triple A games that Delphi loves

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Speaker 1: and where are the major publishers in gaming going wrong

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Speaker 1: when it comes to triple A games today.

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Speaker 2: Well, first we have to take a little bit of

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Speaker 2: step back to the past twenty or thirty years of

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Speaker 2: triple A gaming because they're really used to be significant

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Speaker 2: barriers to entry to make a triple A game, and

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Speaker 2: one of the biggest ones was physical distribution, which is

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Speaker 2: the primary mode of how to get your game out

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Speaker 2: to distribute to consumers. As if you wanted to make

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Speaker 2: a triple A game, you needed to have this complex

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Speaker 2: infrastructure to print the games on physical discs and create

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Speaker 2: manuals that to be translated into different languages and localized,

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Speaker 2: and had to drive the games around on trucks in

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Speaker 2: different countries and employ huge sales forces, and so it

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Speaker 2: required very complex and expensive infrastructure and economies of scale

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Speaker 2: that only this sort of oligopoly of large corporations like

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Speaker 2: EA could handle. So nowadays physical copies of games are

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Speaker 2: still thing. They're important for gift giving and collectors, editions

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Speaker 2: and stuff, but the vast majority of game sales are

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Speaker 2: now digital. So if you've developed a game and you're

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Speaker 2: ready to put it in the hands of consumers, you

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Speaker 2: essentially press upload to one of the platforms where people

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Speaker 2: can buy and download your game, and so that has

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Speaker 2: democratized the process somewhat. That's a very important thing that's

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Speaker 2: changed that's enabled a company like Delfi to come into existence.

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Speaker 2: But the other super important thing about our thesis on

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Speaker 2: the publisher industrial complex is that they've of course adapted

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Speaker 2: to this digital era and they're operating at an unprecedented

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Speaker 2: profitability and scale. But at the same time, something else

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Speaker 2: has happened. And then we believe that on average, the

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Speaker 2: legacy publishers have become fundamentally misaligned with the owners of

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Speaker 2: the world's biggest IP, and they've also become fundamentally misaligned

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Speaker 2: more and more with dependent Triple A developers. And that's

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Speaker 2: where Delphi saw an opportunity, a significant opportunity to step

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Speaker 2: in and offer an sort of very attractive alternative two

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Speaker 2: owners of IP and to Triple A developers. Very sort

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Speaker 2: of rationally, we believe the large gaming publishers have prioritized

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Speaker 2: their own internal fully owned IPS over third party ipis,

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Speaker 2: and some of them who even publicly acknowledged that by now,

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Speaker 2: and that means that they're no longer ideal partners for

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Speaker 2: the owners of the most iconic licensed I piece, and

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Speaker 2: everyone is slowly starting to realize that.

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Speaker 1: Do you think some folks in the gaming community might

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Speaker 1: sometimes prefer that IP that's local to gaming be prioritized

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Speaker 1: over major third party IP from Hollywood or elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: Well, we actually have given quite a bit of thought

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Speaker 2: to that as well. They this idea of licensed IP

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Speaker 2: means a lot of things. You know, it can be

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Speaker 2: from the world of Hollywood, it can be from the

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Speaker 2: world of sports, which is huge, but it also exists

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Speaker 2: across a spectrum of sort of different license experiences. One is,

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Speaker 2: you know, you have integrations of licensed IP and platforms

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Speaker 2: like Roadblocks or Fortnite, where the teenage mutant Ninja Turtles

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Speaker 2: show up in Fortnite and things go fucking crazy. And

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Speaker 2: then you have these licensed games that are sort of

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Speaker 2: like merchandising tie in experiences where if you have a

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Speaker 2: Star Wars or Harry Potter movie coming out, then there's

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Speaker 2: also this game that's made to coincide with the release

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Speaker 2: and the same thing that happens in the movie happens

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Speaker 2: in the game if it's a little different. And those

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Speaker 2: are not always critical hits, but historically have been sort

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Speaker 2: of very commercially successful. But then there's also a third

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Speaker 2: category of licensed game and that's the one that really

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Speaker 2: inspires us here at Delphi, and that's a rarer type

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Speaker 2: and we haven't really found a perfect term for it,

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Speaker 2: but we call them asynchronous licensed franchises. And some examples

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Speaker 2: of that are Knights of the Old Republic that byowhere

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Speaker 2: are made, or the Batman Arkham series from rock Steady,

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Speaker 2: or Marvel Spider Man from Insomniac and more recently Boulder

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Speaker 2: Skate three from Larian. These weren't based on any particular

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Speaker 2: movie actor, or movie or novel or anything. They were

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Speaker 2: they were carefully crafted, very patiently developed franchises that were

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Speaker 2: completely their own thing, and so we call those asynchronous franchises,

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Speaker 2: and those are the ones that the Delphi want to

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Speaker 2: make more of. And so it's also interesting to note

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Speaker 2: that all of the examples I mentioned were created by

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Speaker 2: Triple A studios that were at least of the time

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Speaker 2: completely independent. Triple A studios like I are interactive and

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Speaker 2: so as you can read in the news, project Double

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Speaker 2: O seven fits this model. It's the first ever Triple

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Speaker 2: A origin story of the James Bond character. It's a

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Speaker 2: completely original story, and it's not based on any particular

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Speaker 2: Bond film or actor. And we think fans will always

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Speaker 2: love those types of experiences.

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Speaker 1: Speaking to this notion of you know, high quality Triple

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Speaker 1: A games license from third party ip that really resonate

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Speaker 1: with the market, it wasn't just Balder's Gage three in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three that fit those terms. It was also

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Speaker 1: Howkwarts Legacy coming from Warner Brothers in their own internal studio. However,

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Speaker 1: a year later, Suicide Squad Killed the Justice League comes

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Speaker 1: out and sort of has the opposite outcome with you know,

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Speaker 1: fans and critics alike than Hawkwarts Legacy did. And more recently,

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Speaker 1: we saw Ubisoft own up to Star Wars Outlaws, missing

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Speaker 1: their expectations, and now Tencent is reportedly circling Ubisoft as

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Speaker 1: an acquisition target. What do you think is defining such

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Speaker 1: missteps this year after we've seen other projects be it

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Speaker 1: Sony Spider Man or Howkwarts Legacy or Bouder's Gate three

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Speaker 1: really hit their marks.

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Speaker 2: I'm very interested in two of the companies you mentioned

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Speaker 2: just there. You know, everybody's talking about Ubisoft and Rumors,

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Speaker 2: and you know what, I think that company maybe has

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Speaker 2: some specific problems to That company employs a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: The most successful IP franchises they have are starting to

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Speaker 2: show their age, and there may be some other endemic

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Speaker 2: problems that they're dealing with with their stock price and

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Speaker 2: ownership that we just simply don't know about. So I'm

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Speaker 2: cautious to derive specific conclusions about the industry based on Ubisoft.

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Speaker 2: Warner Brothers super interesting. They are one of the I

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Speaker 2: think only two traditional Hollywood Industrial complex members that have

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Speaker 2: their own internal gaming businesses. The other Hollywood studios that

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Speaker 2: had that have shut those down and transitioned to essentially

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Speaker 2: risk free and very lucrative licensing businesses. So Disney licenses

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Speaker 2: out there valuable IP to games developers and publishers instead

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Speaker 2: of making their own. Warner Brothers is different. They have

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Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Interactive Entertainment, and as you said, there is

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Speaker 2: a long cadence between the games they release, and you

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Speaker 2: can have a billion dollar success asynchronous success like Parkwards Legacy,

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Speaker 2: and then you can have something like Suicide Squad that

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Speaker 2: leads to a reported to our million or even dow

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Speaker 2: right off. And I think on a reason Earnings call

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Speaker 2: David Saslav, he said very wisely that given that Warner

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Speaker 2: Brothers own such shockun al Ip and you know, only

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Speaker 2: has as much bandwidth as they do inside of their

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Speaker 2: own game studio, and given that it takes four to

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Speaker 2: five years to make a triple A game, or nine

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Speaker 2: years in the case of Suicide Squad, it makes so

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Speaker 2: much sense for Warner Brothers Discovery to balance out that

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Speaker 2: cadence and risk profile by complementing their portfolio of games

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Speaker 2: with some licensed titles as well to external partners, where

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Speaker 2: Warner Brothers Discovery doesn't take the financial execution risk as much,

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Speaker 2: and that can solve a problem like the fact that

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Speaker 2: there literally hasn't been a triple A PC console Batman

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Speaker 2: game since twenty fifteen. It's almost ten years ago, and

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Speaker 2: that's not right. And I think brother Discoveries is discovering

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Speaker 2: the solution to that.

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Speaker 3: And I think similarly to how they think about movies. Right,

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Speaker 3: we've been inspired a lot by companies like Legendary Entertainment,

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Speaker 3: which started back in the day producing Warner Brothers Movies

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Speaker 3: and Warner Brothers ip into blockbuster films and their whole

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Speaker 3: thesis was that they could you know, come in initially

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Speaker 3: with financing, but their plan was to try to make

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Speaker 3: these big blockbuster films outside of the legacy Hollywood studios.

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Speaker 3: They were one of the first to do. Its Guidance

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Speaker 3: came later and build a similar thesis which has now

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Speaker 3: become really big, and another taking over a legacy studio

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Speaker 3: to try to modernize it with their way of doing things.

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Speaker 3: But that doesn't exist in gaming, and especially in Triple

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Speaker 3: A gaming. And so that model of financing this big

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Speaker 3: blockbuster Triple A games outside of the system and creating

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Speaker 3: a Triple A slate of games work based on the

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Speaker 3: biggest brands in the world, it's something that doesn't exist

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Speaker 3: and that del Via is firing to create and be

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Speaker 3: inspired by legendary and Skidance.

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Speaker 1: I want to expand a bit on how you make

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Speaker 1: that pitch to you know, a legacy Hollywood studio. As

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Speaker 1: we know, Skydance is trying to complete an acquisition of Paramount.

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Speaker 1: If that goes through, that's a third legacy major Hollywood

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Speaker 1: studio that is going to have you know, a full

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Speaker 1: fledged gaming division at its disposable if that completes, how

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Speaker 1: do you make the pitch to an entity like Paramount

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Speaker 1: or you know, the new iteration of sky Dance and

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Speaker 1: Paramount that they should be you know, licensing some of

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Speaker 1: the IP out as well, alongside whatever they're working on

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Speaker 1: with sky Dance Interactive or Skydance New Media.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love talking about that stuff. It's I think,

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Speaker 2: first of all, bandwidth is always an issue, as we

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Speaker 2: see from Warner Brothers. They have a huge studio with

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Speaker 2: twenty two hundred employees, and there's still hasn't been a

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Speaker 2: Batman game, and at least not for PC and console

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Speaker 2: in Triple A for for nearly a decade. The other

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Speaker 2: thing way we look at that problem you're describing there

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, I think it's about having a proposition,

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Speaker 2: an opportunity for a licensed project that's just so good

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Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter what else the license or which

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Speaker 2: is what we call the Hollywood studio or sports franchise

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Speaker 2: or that that's giving you the license, no matter what

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Speaker 2: else they're working on with the IP. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: joking about that. When when Project Double O seven was

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Speaker 2: unveiled a few years ago, pc Gamer described it as

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Speaker 2: a match made in heaven between an IP and development talent,

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Speaker 2: and so we were obviously very proud of that reaction,

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Speaker 2: and since then we've tried to codify what it means

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Speaker 2: and why people would say that. And so one of

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Speaker 2: the Triple A developers were working with on one of

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Speaker 2: our upcoming projects that has not been announced yet, he

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Speaker 2: taught us this fascinating idea that if you're working on

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Speaker 2: adapting and established IP, you have.

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Speaker 3: To be able to.

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Speaker 2: Deconstruct the sort of wishful film and fantasy of that

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Speaker 2: particular IP, whether it's whether a film series or a

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Speaker 2: novel or a comic book, you have to sort of

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Speaker 2: deconstruct the wishful film and fantasy into its constituent parts,

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Speaker 2: and then you have to be skilled enough to organically

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Speaker 2: reassemble those elements in a different way, completely different way

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Speaker 2: that's suitable for the Triple A interactive medium, and of

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Speaker 2: course ideally in a sort of shock and all fashion

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Speaker 2: that will delight the fans. This is really no easy feat.

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Speaker 2: There is a real art to that kind of adaptation

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Speaker 2: and it requires patients and resources and the luxury of time.

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Speaker 2: And from what we've seen, when you have something like

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Speaker 2: that the license source or eager to do business.

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Speaker 1: So this is maybe a little bit of a tough

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Speaker 1: but necessary question. Along those lines, we have live services

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Speaker 1: at play that you know, at sort of the top level,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Roadblocks, Fortnite, Minecraft, and then Grand Theft, Auto

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Speaker 1: and Call of Duty appealing to you know, more adult gamers.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood is very very friendly with a lot of these

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Speaker 1: live services, Fortnite and Roadblocks in particular. As we know,

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Speaker 1: Disney invested one point five billion into Epic Games, specifically

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Speaker 1: for many different IP partnerships spread throughout Fortnite. Let's say

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Speaker 1: Delphi knows a studio that can pull off a really

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Speaker 1: high quality Alien game that's IP you would have to

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Speaker 1: get from Disney. How do you convince an entity like

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Speaker 1: that that a game that could theoretically take four or

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Speaker 1: five years even more, if this, you know, wish fulfillment

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Speaker 1: deconstruction process takes a while, how do you sell Disney

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Speaker 1: on betting on the high quality Triple A game instead

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Speaker 1: of a Fortnite experience.

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Speaker 3: We believe that the ips that we're going after, right

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Speaker 3: are some of the biggest brands in the world, right,

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Speaker 3: and so when Disney or orner Brothers or any of

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Speaker 3: these studios are thinking about the strategy for some of

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Speaker 3: the biggest IPS. It's not just one thing that they do, right,

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Speaker 3: They explore different ways to attract the different types of

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Speaker 3: fans that are engaged with that IP and who love

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Speaker 3: the IP. And so some of those fans are the

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Speaker 3: audiences that are within roadblocks on Fortnite and who want

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Speaker 3: to have those games. They're they engage with those games

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Speaker 3: and they love already the experience that they have and

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Speaker 3: the characters within Fortnite, and so integrating those IPS makes

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Speaker 3: a lot of sense, and those are huge businesses on

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Speaker 3: their own. There's also a lot of people, a lot

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Speaker 3: of those fans that want single player experiences, and you know,

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Speaker 3: many gamers, like us, they get overwhelmed, you know, when

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Speaker 3: when they have to go into an existing game to

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Speaker 3: play mode whe their favorite IP, or when a new

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Speaker 3: game is coming out and it's a you know, eighty

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Speaker 3: tow one hundred hour game that you know, feels intimidating.

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Speaker 3: And so we think both things can coexist, not perhaps

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Speaker 3: for every AP, but definitely for the things that are

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Speaker 3: you know, some of the biggest brands that have a

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Speaker 3: huge global fan base and that are sort of evergreen

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Speaker 3: franchises that you know, they're constantly thinking about what comes next, right,

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Speaker 3: and so our our philosophy in those cases is to

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Speaker 3: do something different. They may already be working with Fortnite,

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Speaker 3: or they may be working with other existing platforms, but

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Speaker 3: we think about the single player story driven experience, and

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Speaker 3: usually it starts with something that you know can be

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Speaker 3: played in twelve to sixteen hours as opposed to eighty

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Speaker 3: two hundred hours, and you feel a great sense of

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Speaker 3: accomplishment and satisfaction when you're playing it. It's almost like

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Speaker 3: you're bench watching your face or a new TV series

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Speaker 3: or movie franchise that you love, or you know, the

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Speaker 3: Lord of the Rings trilogy, and it has a beginning

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Speaker 3: in an it's very fulfilling and and they're highly replayable,

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Speaker 3: and then you know, you can have DLC content, and

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Speaker 3: you can have you know, new iterations and sequels that

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Speaker 3: come out after that continue that story.

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Speaker 2: And so yeah, and and Corey, I think also that

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Speaker 2: there is a very interesting general debate happening at the

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Speaker 2: moment about live services games, which you mentioned. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's natural that everybody wants a fortnight. There is

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Speaker 2: there's an eleven or maybe even twelve figure upside to

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Speaker 2: that if you can pull that out as a company,

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Speaker 2: But it's also a very volatile proposition with a massive

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Speaker 2: downside and massive risk. You know, as we've seen, even

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Speaker 2: high quality life services games that are based on beloved

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Speaker 2: ip which you believe so much in, like Avengers or

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Speaker 2: Suicide Squad which we talk about earlier, can can be

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Speaker 2: born as live services experiences, but can really struggle to

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Speaker 2: pull away habitual users from the sort of the big

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Speaker 2: five titans that you have there and the network effects

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Speaker 2: they have. You know, you mentioned Roadblocks and Fortnite or

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Speaker 2: Minecraft or GTA Online or or or even FIFA, and

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Speaker 2: it's a it's very hard to take consumption time away

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Speaker 2: from those grain franchises and and and uh and inject

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Speaker 2: new life into a completely new ecosystem. And so we

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Speaker 2: thought about how you can get the best of both worlds,

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Speaker 2: and that a wiser and more risk managed approach to

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Speaker 2: live services is to to start with a hardcore, premium,

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Speaker 2: story driven, character driven single player experiences, and like io

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Speaker 2: Interactive has done with transforming Hitman into it's very successful

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Speaker 2: and durable world of assassination platform, or even how GGA

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Speaker 2: Online was created after GGA five. And what you do

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Speaker 2: is you sort of you have this strong core single

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Speaker 2: play experience, and then you carefully layer on live services

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Speaker 2: elements around this core, and then you expand in almost

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Speaker 2: concent these concentric circles from there and create a single

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Speaker 2: player as a service that can be a very very

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Speaker 2: good business and very durable. We think that is a

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Speaker 2: more organic approach than launching a super expensive, mega live

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Speaker 2: services game and hope that people will show up.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of the single player experience, I do need to

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Speaker 1: clarify if any listeners were terrified by that alien hypothetical

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Speaker 1: creative assembly. And Sega did just confirm a sequel to

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen's Alien Isolation is in the works, so you

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Speaker 1: know that is one win on the single player front, now,

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, clarifying. We were worried for a second that Fortnite

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Speaker 2: would have you know, but I think I think such

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Speaker 2: ips is so iconic and beloved that they can absolutely

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Speaker 2: tolerate multiple incarnations to co exist at the same time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about Aliens our rated franchise, but you

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Speaker 2: know where this the kids version or the Fortnite version

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Speaker 2: that stylized and fun and then there's the hardcore, story

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Speaker 2: driven R rated version. These can all co exist at

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Speaker 2: the same time. That's one of the one of the

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Speaker 2: beautiful things about Iconic IP that's lasted for a half

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Speaker 2: century or longer. Sometimes.

434
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to take a quick break, but when

435
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: we come back, we're going to talk more about some

436
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: of the financial headwinds the industry has been facing this

437
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,959
Speaker 1: year through layoffs, as well as the mobile gaming element

438
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: of the industry and why that continues to remain relevant

439
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: despite the need for more high quality triple A gaming experiences.

440
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: Welcome back to strictly business. I'm here with Casper Delgard

441
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: from Delphi Interactive and Andy Cleman, also from Delphi. Now

442
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: I want to address, you know, what's sort of the

443
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: biggest elephant in the room for the year in gaming.

444
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: You know, as much as we want to talk about

445
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: positive developments in the industry and things people are really

446
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: excited over, this has simply been a devastating year for

447
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: the gaming workforce. There's one developer who goes by at

448
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: DECAF who dutifully tracks all of these gaming industry layoffs

449
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: across the globe. So far, it surpassed thirteen thousand in

450
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, which is, you know, pretty staggering. A

451
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: lot of that's come from the biggest publishers. We've seen

452
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: Microsoft Gaming, you know, layoff close to two thousand this year,

453
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: many from Activision Blizzard after that acquisition. When Delphi and

454
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: its business model is going to rely heavily on seeking

455
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: out independent studios, do you feel concerned over the degree

456
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: to which really capable independent studios are seeking new parents.

457
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier with Nordis Games, we saw super

458
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: Massive go to them. Super Massive is responsible for Until Dawn,

459
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: which just got a remake through a different studio for Sony.

460
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: They also make the Dark Pictures games for Bandai Namco.

461
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: Another studio, tech Lund, which is known for Dying Light

462
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: and had recently moved into self publishing, ended up being

463
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: acquired by ten Cent. You know, do you still feel

464
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: there are plenty of studios for you to find and

465
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: work with and time is really of the essence and

466
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: getting them set up with good projects.

467
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. We thankfully we have partners already set up for

468
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: most of the Delphi projects we're working on. And it's

469
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: a it's an interesting debate right on one end, obviously,

470
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 3: it's it's devastating to see these layoffs and and you know,

471
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 3: this this sort of feeling of you know, what's happening

472
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 3: with the industry, and you know, it's a little bit

473
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 3: of a double ed sort because there's been incredible grow

474
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: over the past decade. Right, So there's all these jobs

475
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: in gaming that didn't really exist five years ago, ten

476
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: years ago, even you know, right before the pandemic, and

477
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 3: so a lot of these companies grew a lot, and

478
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: you know, budgets became really big, and you know, there's

479
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: a number of factors that sort of got us to

480
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 3: the situation through too many games, and so I think

481
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: it opens an opportunity for companies and studios and talent

482
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: that are trying to be more entrepreneurial. We are seeing

483
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: a lot of great independent talent that we want to

484
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: partner with, that want to partner with us, some because

485
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 3: they're looking for an alternative to these traditional publishers. Maybe

486
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 3: they're not as aligned with them economically or or creatively.

487
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: And our model is not just alignment around the economics,

488
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: but it's it's this idea of full transparency and collaboration

489
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 3: and working on something together from day one all the

490
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: way to you know, eventually becoming something that you know,

491
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 3: there's multiple sequels or you know, very long term project,

492
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 3: and so there's a more entrepreneurial alignment with them. And

493
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: also some of these studios, you know, they maybe left

494
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: the big publishers because they wanted to work on original

495
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: IP and some of those projects got you know, limited

496
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: capital or got you know cut because it's risky and

497
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: because the cost capital is higher. And so we're seeing

498
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 3: some of those studios and some of that talent now

499
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 3: interested in saying we have a great team that has

500
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: X skill sets and X experience for these genre of games,

501
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: or we have an idea for an original AP that's

502
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 3: very similar to the other i P that's an established

503
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: i P, and we want to partner with somebody that

504
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: can help us do that right. And that's our sweets

505
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: up spot in terms of the kinds of things we

506
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 3: want to do and find the right matches Made in Heaven,

507
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 3: as we mentioned, and so yes, there's there's challenges in

508
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: the industry and there's a lot of changes happening, but

509
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 3: we do think it's a really good opportunity for companies

510
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 3: that can be more entrepreneurial and try to sort of

511
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: bet on big things, but with the right risk profile

512
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: where you already know that there's an audience that's already

513
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: interested in this and this this game doesn't exist, and

514
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 3: if you can put the right pieces together of this

515
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 3: puzzle and make it, and you have the right DNA

516
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: to make it, then you know there's a big audience

517
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: for it at the other end.

518
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: And I'll just add to that Corey that you know

519
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 2: Andy mentioned, it's like radical transparency that we try to

520
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: enforce with our with our partners, whether it's IP owners

521
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 2: or or Independent Triple A Talent, about the fire financying

522
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: about the revenue models, about everything. And we do that

523
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: because we are not a gig up publisher like Ubisoft,

524
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: which has twenty two thousand employees and such huge overhead

525
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: costs and diversification that they just have to capture a

526
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: massive share of the economic upside that's created by a game.

527
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: I'd dare say it's literally ninety or ninety five percent

528
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: of the upside after counting, and which can really misalign

529
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: them with Independent Triple A Talent, who simply, with very

530
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: few exceptions, don't receive a significant share of that upside,

531
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: and maybe the incentives are so misaligned sometimes that the

532
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 2: talent charges a man month rate with a cost plus

533
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 2: premium and that essentially paid more the longer they take

534
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: to make the game. It is creating real misalignment. So

535
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: we build our models because we don't have all that

536
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: overhead and baggage to create transformative outcomes for our independent

537
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: Triple A partners in success so where they will probably

538
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: never need a publisher again if we create something successful together,

539
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: and that's something we really believed in. We're transparent about

540
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 2: it and that I think significantly differentiates us from the

541
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: legacy system and try to create some positive I mean,

542
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: it's all this really sad stuff that we're seeing with

543
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: the layoffs in the industry.

544
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: Speaking to the transparency and you know, the extent of

545
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: the costs of Triple A game development, is the current

546
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: sag after strike weighing on Delphi at all in terms

547
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: of evaluating how you want to approach major IP at

548
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: the independent studio level.

549
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: Not really. You know, being an entrepreneur, you have to

550
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 3: understand all the challenges that an industry is going through

551
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: and you know all the strikes multiple stripes we've seen

552
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 3: in related to Hollywood and entertainment over the past few years.

553
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 3: Are a result of all these changes, right, a lot

554
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 3: of them, you know, because of the evolution of technology.

555
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 3: And my whole career, I started in early days of

556
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 3: digital music and went into film and TV and then gaming,

557
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 3: and so evolution of technology has always been something that

558
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 3: I've seen play a huge role on how these industries change.

559
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: And you know, you have to adapt and you have

560
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: to evolve. And so for us, you know, we we

561
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 3: believe creative talent is always hugely important, probably the most

562
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: important if you want to have great products that people

563
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 3: want to consume, great games, great movies, great TV shows,

564
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 3: great books, and so we're always aligned with the talent.

565
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: But at the same time, you have to think about

566
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: what's you know, how to create the best business model

567
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: and evolve the business model to something that's affordable and

568
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: that you can reach as many fans of the IP

569
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 3: or the or the talent as possible. Right. And so

570
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 3: sometimes that's the issue with big legacy companies that are

571
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 3: not able to move as quickly or adapt to changes

572
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 3: or change their business molle because they're not prepared and

573
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: they're big, and they have all these different departments, and

574
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: these departments may not even talk to each other, right,

575
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 3: and so it's hard for them to do those things.

576
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 3: But for us, we're very aligned with, you know, how

577
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 3: do we bring the best possible experiences to the fans,

578
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: And so we're watching what happens in the industry closely

579
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: and trying to evolve the models and be prepared for

580
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 3: whatever happens.

581
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: So something like user generated content, and it's growing appeal

582
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: to publishers like EA, who have really come out in

583
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 1: favor of it. Is that something that similar to sort

584
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: of the heavy push to live services, you know, is

585
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: that something you think is getting in the way of

586
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: Delfi's you know, stated initiative to make really high quality

587
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: single player games.

588
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say it's getting in the way, because you know,

589
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 3: there's a huge audience and market for something that's much

590
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 3: more careful scripted. You know, it's early days, I think

591
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: for a lot of these UGC Continent games or you know,

592
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 3: chen Ai evolution of games, and again we're very interested

593
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: in that stuff as a as a big geek into

594
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: all these new emerging technologies. It's fascinating to see what

595
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: these things can do. I think when you're trying to

596
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: craft something for you know, finicky fans that love a

597
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: certain i P and that one a certain story told,

598
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: and that one really really high quality on everything that

599
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: they do. The technology is still somewhat limited and also

600
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 3: maybe not us accessible, but it's definitely going there. Right

601
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: So our model right now is very clear. We have

602
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 3: a slate of projects that are set up that we're

603
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: really excited about with great partners with RAYP, and we

604
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 3: believe fans will be super excited about the next generation

605
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: of games we make beyond that may be a little

606
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 3: different based on these changes, right. So it's it's something

607
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: that again when you're a startup and you're a a

608
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: lean company like we always aspired to be, right even

609
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 3: after we hopefully have many successes, like we always aspired

610
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 3: to be a very lean core of our team and

611
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: be able to work with the best partners. And so

612
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 3: if that means that some of our partners and some

613
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: of the both development parts of the technology partners have

614
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 3: you know, great emerging technologies that take great use cases

615
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: of AI or UGC content, like we will help you,

616
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: you know. That's that's that's part of how we are.

617
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: But it's not something that is a huge priority for

618
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 3: us in the stuff that we're already doing.

619
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: So Andy, I want to focus a little bit on

620
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: your background in gaming as we close up here. You

621
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're obviously passionate about the Triple A gaming

622
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: space and you know the sorts of games that are

623
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: you know, big enough to take years and years to make.

624
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: But you spent some time in your career at scope Ly.

625
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: Now scope Ly last year was acquired by Savvy Games

626
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: Group in Saudi Arabia for close to five billion. You know,

627
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: that's not quite as big as the sixty nine billion

628
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: for Activision Blizzard over at Microsoft, but that's still quite

629
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: a lot and sort of does reach the top of

630
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of gaming acquisitions and other mobile companies Zinga,

631
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: which I also believe you worked with for some time,

632
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: that was acquired by Take two Interactive for over twelve

633
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: billion a couple of years ago. What caused this pivot

634
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 1: on your end to you know, switch from the very

635
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: scale driven mobile side of the industry, which for many

636
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 1: years now has accounted for half of the you know,

637
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: entire gaming market essentially over to a more traditional space

638
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: like console PC. The Triple A games defined that when

639
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, there are as many fraud issues as we

640
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: have covered in this space.

641
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's a great question. I been in the industry

642
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: a long time, and one of the things I love

643
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: about games and the games industry is that it's it's

644
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 3: constantly growing and evolving, and every time there's been sort

645
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: of a new platform or technology, it doesn't necessarily replace

646
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: the older ones. It just keeps expanding and growing. So

647
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 3: I started, when I started, I was making downloadable PC games,

648
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 3: and then I went into online multiplayer games, and then

649
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 3: social games. That was a big part of Zinga and

650
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: UH and eventually mobile also with Zinga and Scope League.

651
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 3: And even at the time I remember, you know, we

652
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: were at Zinga and the E merging. Mobile platforms were growing,

653
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 3: and everybody was like, who's going to be the singer

654
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: of mobile? Right, and Zinga wanted to be the single

655
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: of mobile, uh and and and it was always, you know,

656
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: an opportunity for new companies like super Sell or Scope

657
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: Lead to be born. And and so I agree that

658
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 3: obviously most of the growth has come into mobile, and

659
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: most of the venture capital money and talent has focused

660
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 3: on on on mobile, which is now pretty crowded right

661
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: the free to play market, There's there's a lot of games.

662
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 3: There's probably a lot of games in general in the industry,

663
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: but particularly mobile for you to play, which is which

664
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 3: is hard because you know, it's it's not just about

665
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 3: making a great game, it's about you know, long term

666
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 3: retention and monetization and things that are harder to determine

667
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: even if you have a fun game until after you

668
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 3: you're done sort of building the core of the game.

669
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 3: And so when he came to Triple A Games, when

670
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 3: when when Casper started working on the Chickenspawn project, and

671
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 3: and I was helping him again as a as a

672
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 3: friend who knew a lot about games and IP, it

673
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 3: reminded me a lot of the similarities between the early

674
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: days of Scope League and what DELFI was aspiring to do.

675
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: Right Scope Lee, we started earlier looking at mobile market

676
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: that was getting quickly crowded and and harder to get

677
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 3: you know, discovered and to get you know, efficient user

678
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: requisition dollars spent. And that's when we say the opportunity

679
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 3: to partner with some big IP some of the biggest

680
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: brands at the time and make games. But our core

681
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: team for for Scopey at the time, which was a

682
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 3: small team as well, we didn't have the capability to

683
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: do all these different types of games we wanted to make,

684
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: and so we started partnering with third party developers that

685
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 3: were established that were really good in a particular type

686
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 3: of game and genre, and we would combine forces and

687
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 3: we would bring our secret sauce around marketing and distribution

688
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: and things that we did well. And and that's what

689
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: you know, was sort of the origin of of what

690
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 3: became a two pointed out a really successful company in Scopey.

691
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: Right.

692
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 3: So that's the similarity and the and the inspiration with

693
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 3: del Fi. Right. We see that, yes, the Triple A

694
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 3: is much more established and seems like more traditional, but

695
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 3: not in the way that we're doing it. The way

696
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 3: that we're doing it is it has never been done. Right,

697
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: This this analogy that I gave earlier about legendary or

698
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: you know, a company that's trying to do really big

699
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 3: Triple A games and a slate of multiple Triple A

700
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 3: games with the biggest ap outside of the traditional publisher

701
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 3: infrastructure that doesn't exist, and so we we aspire to

702
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: also do something new and innovative like that done before.

703
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: In my career with Delpha as well.

704
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much Casper and Anti for you know,

705
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: giving us the vision of what Delphi Interactive is aspiring to.

706
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us on, Corey.

707
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 3: It's great talking to you.

708
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, great talking to you too.

709
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

710
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: at Apple Podcasts or Amazon Music. We love to hear

711
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,799
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712
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,879
Speaker 4: up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't

713
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,440
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714
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:54,440
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