1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: my assessment that this balloon did not present a physical 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: military threat. China's we believes irresponsible action were visible for 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: the American in the world to see. I think the 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: weakest thing about us as what's taking place in Congress 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: and in the country. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and perspective. 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: From DC's top name. You will hear an openness and 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: in fact, an eagerness to have a real serious conversation 9 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: about the fiscal and economic priorities of the country. This 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: is a serious enough matter for him to center in 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: his speech at the State of the Union. Bloomberg Sound 12 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So they shot 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: down the balloon. Now the post mortem, What did both 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: sides learn and what is the state of Washington's relationship 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: with Beijing. We're joined by an expert tonight, former Secretary 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: of Defense Mark Esper on what happened over the weekend 17 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: and what China did on his watch. Later, President Biden 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,839 Speaker 1: prepares for his first official State of the Union against 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 1: the backdrop of an international crisis and sagging approval ratings. 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: We'll look ahead of the speech with Nathan Dean of 21 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence, and we'll discuss it all with our panel. 22 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie Schanzano are with 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: us for the hour. But first, the US has already 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: recovered some parts from the Chinese balloon shot down off 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: the coast over the weekend. General Glenn Handrek Handhirk rather 26 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: brief reporters earlier today he's important in this story. Commander 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: of US Northern Command in the North American Aerospace Defense 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Command Nora ad one of the people who had to 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: make the call on this. The General answering today why 30 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: the balloon was not shot down earlier Listen, it was 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: my assessment that this balloon did not present a physical 32 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: military threat to North America. This is under my norad 33 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: had uh and therefore uh I could not take immediate 34 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: action because it was not demonstrating hostile act or hostile intent. 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: It's tracks with what we have heard from the administration 36 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: and heard over the course of the weekend, at least 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: from Democrats and the administration. General van Herk also says 38 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: the salve admission, as I mentioned, is now underway in 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: relatively shallow waters, but it's across a very wide area. 40 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: If you can just put yourself underwater and picture this. 41 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: This is a effort that's in the open ocean, ongoing 42 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: and approximately fifty feet of water, and so we have 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: to be very cognizant of the c states, currents, etcetera. 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: So we continue to move forward. We expect the debris 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: field to be of a rough order of magnitude of 46 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: about fifteen hundred meters by hundred meters, and so you know, 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: more than fifteen football fields by fifteen football fields, General said. 48 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: One concern is whether the equipment carries explosives or other 49 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: maybe hazardous materials. So they're not done being careful here, 50 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: but it'll be fascinating if we ever hear what they 51 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: learned to know exactly what's been gleaned from all of this. 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: And this is where we begin with Mark Esper, the 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: former Secretary of Defense, former Secretary of the Army. Mark, 54 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: it's great to have you back. I've got a lot 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: of questions for you, and I'll start with the basics. 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: Was it the right thing to shoot down the balloon 57 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: and did they wait too long? It was the right 58 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: thing to shoot down the balloon once it left um, 59 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: once across the Atlanta into the Atlantic Ocean. Uh. My 60 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: view was always that we should try and capture it first. 61 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: But I think you have to go back and look 62 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: at this in three phases. The first phases when it 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: first entered our airspace in the Aleutian Islands near Alaska 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: or whatnot, I think that's where it should have been 65 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: first shot down is then and then um as it 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: passed over the United States. I would not have recommended 67 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: shooting it down for the reasons the administration gave with 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: regard to the debris falling on people or or really 69 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: damaging property. But certainly once it left that area was 70 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: shot down and properly. So okay. So that answers a 71 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: couple of different questions there. If that had been shot 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: down over the Aleutian Islands, for instance, would that have 73 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: had to be done, you know, over US territory or 74 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,119 Speaker 1: would you have had kind of an area to play 75 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: with there as you tracked the balloon moving towards Canada. No, 76 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: I think to be consistent with international law, you have 77 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: to shoot it down when it's in your airspace. I 78 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 1: don't know exactly where that begins, although I I know 79 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: it was over top of Alaska. If we are to 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: believe the charts that have been shown for quite some time, 81 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe there wasn't an area over Laska. 82 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: It um that they could have They could have brought 83 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: it down and and not risk injuring people. So that's 84 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: to me, that's when it should have been done before 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: entered the continental United States. There's been a lot of 86 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: talk about this not being the first time. The administration 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: delivered some information yesterday on this that Chinese balloons were 88 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: spotted during the Trump administration near Texas, Florida, and Hawaii. 89 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: Had you ever heard that, Mr Secretary before this revelation, Well, 90 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: I said a few days ago that I had no 91 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: recollection of anybody ever running up to my office and 92 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: tell me that this was happening, or ever reading it 93 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: in an intelligence report. And of course we just learned 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: yesterday that they said that this was pieced together after 95 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: the Trump administration left office. So this looks like they 96 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: put it together after the fact. But it does ray 97 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: serious questions about why we didn't know at the time 98 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: that balloons were traversing the US territory, if that is 99 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: indeed what happened, Assuming that these things are all kind 100 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: of around that altitude sixty feet, you would have thought 101 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: somebody might have spotted that, Mr. Secretary. So I'm scratching 102 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: my head a little bit, and you probably are too. Well, 103 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: that's what I think. There needs to be some diligence. 104 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: You know, if I was back in a chair at 105 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: a Secretary of Defense, I would be I would be 106 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: demanding those answers. Now, lastly, an investigation be done, be 107 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: because you know, maybe it was seen but it was disregarded, 108 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: or maybe it got caught up in the clutter of 109 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: commercial aircraft. I know commercial our planes don't fly that high, 110 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: but well, maybe we just weren't looking at the right thing. 111 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: So this is one of the things I would want 112 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: to know if I was still structure Defense, and I'm 113 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: sure Congress will be pressing for those answers as well. 114 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: White House Press Secretary Karine John Pierre did talk about 115 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: this part of the story today in her briefing and 116 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: UH and the idea that Trump officials may be briefed 117 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: on this if they choose. Here's what she said. The 118 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee isn't deep prepared to UH to offer key officials, 119 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: as you were just laying out from the Trump administration 120 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: to on the briefings on this PRC surveillance program. Uh, 121 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: and so don't have We're not going to get into 122 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: the who are those key officials? From here? I would 123 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: refer you to the Intelligence Committee on those logistics and 124 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: when it's going to happen and who who those key 125 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: officials are would be. But again, we are we are prepared, 126 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: we are willing to have that conversation. Mark. I don't 127 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: know if you're one of those key officials or not, 128 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: But what's the point of an after action briefing like 129 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: that with a prior administration. Well, first of all, I hope, 130 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: I am um, you know, I guess I'd be interested 131 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: in finding out what happened, right, and it's it's you know, 132 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: it's good that they offer that, but it is curious 133 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: again to find out what happened and how this was 134 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: never detected until the last eighteen months two years or so. 135 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: It isn't Again, I think there is a need to 136 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: go back and find out how come we have gaps. 137 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: There's either a gap in our surveillance or's or a 138 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: gap in our reporting or something, but needs to be 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: discovered in quickly. The concern, of course, is what they 140 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: learned about US. UH and as I mentioned, Texas, Florida, 141 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: and Hawaii, the balloons also flew near Norfolk, Virginia, apparently Coronado, California, 142 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: two ports where where we have some pretty important hardware. Uh. 143 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: This looks like a predetermined course, right. I know there 144 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: was talk about it whether or not it was really 145 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: being controlled by the Chinese. But if you had to 146 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: take a list of landmarks to fly over, uh, Secretary aspert, 147 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: they did a pretty good job getting a lot of 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: them in here, didn't they. Well, they did a very 149 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: good job. And if I'm just going off the press reports, 150 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: but it looks like they hovered over parts of Montana 151 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: where we have missile fields. They possibly traversed Missouri, where 152 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: we have the base for our B two stealth bombers, 153 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: and then further along the East coast and look, look, look, 154 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: the Pentagon did admit that there that the the balloon 155 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: was steerable, So uh they did. It was intelligence collection platform. 156 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: They did a pretty good job. I hear you know, 157 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: senior and anonymous officials saying, well, they couldn't collect more 158 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: from this balloon than what they did from outer space. 159 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: And I say, well, how do you know that, how 160 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: do we know that? And why would they Why would 161 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: they do this which which was has now cost him 162 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: a great deal of embarrassment if they didn't think that 163 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: it would have some intelligence value. So I think that's 164 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: why we need to get to the bottom of the instrumentation. 165 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 1: Once we get it back ashore, we can we can 166 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: look at and find out more about what was on 167 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: that payload and what they were looking for. And to me, 168 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: I would I think every body should suspend judgment until 169 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: we find out what that instrumentation tells us. Well, let's 170 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: hear about that. John Kirby of speaking for the National 171 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: Security Council today, talked about invaluable intelligence gathering from this 172 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: whole experience, even as the administration is being criticized for 173 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: the way had handled it. Listen to John Kirby, our 174 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: efforts to surveill this balloon, uh and and what we're 175 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: gonna learn from the recovery will prove to be valuable. 176 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: What do we uh think we might have learned from 177 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: just looking at this thing, never mind pulling it up 178 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: off the floor of the ocean. Secretary Well, I don't know. 179 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: I mean, there there always is some type of counterintelligence 180 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: value and something like this. We know what they're curious. 181 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: They were interested in our missile basis, Our missile fields 182 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: are bomber bases. That tells us something. But again, I 183 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: don't think we can render judgment until we see what 184 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: what was in the payload and what were they were doing. 185 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: But I go back to our we we began Joe, 186 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: I would have shot it down when it entered Alaskan 187 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: airspace and down it then before allowing it to traverse 188 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: the country, scoop up intelligence, uh, send it back home 189 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: to China. If they were able to do that, and um, 190 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: we can learn you know, a whole lot there without 191 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: sacrificing whatever intelligence they might have gained. If this payload 192 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: isn't good enough shape, will we be able to tell 193 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,119 Speaker 1: if it was transmitting back to China through that whole experience? 194 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think, uh, you know, the intelligence 195 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: community d you would probably know whether they saw signals 196 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: going back there. Maybe there's some type of recorder. I 197 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: just don't know what it's, you know what. All that 198 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: we will learn, but it should tell us what they 199 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: were looking for and why they're looking for it. But 200 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: then there's other parts of this show that we can learn. 201 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: We can find out, you know, is the instrumentation made 202 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: of US parts or outlive parts. It would tell us 203 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: where they're sourcing their um the engineering stuff for for 204 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: the system. So we can learn a whole lot from uh, 205 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: from this package once we get it back to the 206 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: United States. I'm sorry back ashore and able to kind 207 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: of pick through it in close detail. You mentioned capturing this. 208 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: Do we have the means if this happened again or 209 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, looking back on the way this was handled 210 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: was would there have been a way to capture this 211 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: balloon in the air or potentially before it crossed over 212 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: into the US where we could have secured that payload 213 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: more effectively. You know, I would probably leave that up 214 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: to engineers and folks who understand aerospace very well. But look, 215 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: I know in the pass where there have been attempts 216 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: to to slowly allow balloons, if you will, to descend 217 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: by punching holes in the in the balloon part that 218 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: so it would descend on its own. Uh. It's more unpredictable, 219 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: but it gives you a better chance of recovering the 220 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: cargo intact. So I don't know, I think that's something 221 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: we should You know, we need to pull the threat 222 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: on Anthony B. Lincoln do the right thing by postponing. Yes, 223 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: I think so, absolutely certain, especially since that the purpose 224 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: of his meeting, as we learned, was to start building 225 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: a trust and in a in a foundation underneath the relationship. 226 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 1: And for him to go over and meet in Beijing 227 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: with with the Chinese Communist Party leaders for that purpose 228 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: and at the same time they're flying a spot a 229 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: spive balloon brazenly above the United States makes no sense. 230 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: It would just be insulting to him, and it's insulting 231 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: to the company, to the country, whether or not he 232 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: he went or not at this point, so I think 233 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: he did the right thing. Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper, 234 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: It's great to have you back in your expertise on 235 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: a day like this one. Uh Mark, We'd love to 236 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: hear if you get a phone call from the administration. 237 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: Thanks as always for joining. As we assembled our panel, 238 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano are with us. We talked 239 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: about this a bit on Friday when when Rick was 240 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: on board, and he said, why haven't they shot it down? 241 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: So they have, Rick, did they in retrospect treat this 242 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: the right way or should they have done this before 243 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: we were ever talking about something hanging over Montana. Well, 244 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm completely on board with Secretary Esperant this. They should 245 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: have shot it down over the illusions. Uh, it's it's 246 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: incomprehensible that they would make an our agument that somehow 247 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: one of the least populated places on the face of 248 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: the earth would be a threat to anybody. But I'll 249 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: leave that to them. Uh. My guess is they didn't 250 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: even know it was there. What we're finding out now 251 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: is there are big holes in the nora ad ability 252 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: to protect our skies. Uh. You know, their their their 253 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: responsibility is to protect Kona's the homeland. Uh. And from 254 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: what I can tell from what General Van Herk said 255 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: is that he just didn't even know it was there 256 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: until the intelligence community called him. Um. We've we've got 257 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: a lot of work to do to make sure that 258 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: we can control our borders. And I'm not talking about 259 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: the southern border. Uh and uh. And I think this 260 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: is just one of the things that's going to come 261 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: out of this in the hot wash that is going 262 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: to indicate to people that this has been a huge 263 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: favor that the Chinese have done to us. Uh, that 264 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: they've exposed these opportunities for us to really tighten it 265 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: up so that we can't be violated like this in 266 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: the future. Jennie Mark Asper just told us he'd you know, 267 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 1: he'd like to get that briefing from the administration. What 268 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: does that tell us about our our intelligence apparatus If 269 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: we learned this happened multiple times, nobody was even aware, 270 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, it raises so many questions. I mean, you 271 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: can just hear in what the secretary was saying, and 272 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, let's just remember, the United States spends around 273 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: what eight to nine billion, hundred billion dollars per year 274 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: on defense, and you're telling me they don't know that 275 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: balloons by the Chinese, apparently multiple times are flying slowly 276 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: across the sky entering leaving our you know, our space. 277 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: And you know, this is a real political problem as 278 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: well as a defense problem. The political problem is it 279 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: adds to the insecurity that Americans feel in so many ways. 280 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: You're spending this much, but you don't know basic things. 281 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: So I do think there's a lot of answers that 282 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: need to be given. If it wasn't detected, why if 283 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: it was detected, why weren't we prepared the next time 284 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: it came. If it was detected, why didn't you tell anybody, 285 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: particularly Boltlan O'Brien, you know, you, Mark Esper, Why didn't 286 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: these people know? So so many questions and so very 287 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: few answers, you start to feel like it's difficult to 288 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: know who to trust. And by the way, a lot 289 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: of the media reports there's nobody named. These are all 290 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: unnamed sources, and you know, it's a lot of back 291 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: and forth with very little sort of sound explanation behind it. 292 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: Of course, Anthony B. Lincoln would be in Beijing right 293 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: now if it weren't for the balloon. Here's what the 294 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: Press Secretary Koreine John Pierre said about that today. And 295 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: it's up to China to show it is serious about 296 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: its words of being a responsible country that it wants 297 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: to build a media build on the meeting that the 298 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: president and president have who president she very recently, and 299 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: so it's up to China to to figure out what 300 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: kind of relationship that they want. And as you know, yes, 301 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: uh uh, Secretary B. Lincoln did did postpone his trip. 302 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: It was not canceled, and when the time permits, we'll 303 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: see that trip back on the books. What does China 304 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: need to do to get that back on the calendar. Rick, Oh, 305 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: it's certainly got to do better than to attack us 306 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: for shooting down it's balloon over our tery otorial space. 307 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: So I would say they're not out of the gate 308 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: well on this one, and I and I'm not sure 309 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: there is anything that they can do to improve it. 310 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: It's going to have to be a decision that the 311 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: Biden administration makes, saying it's more important, uh, to continue 312 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: to have a dialogue with them on all these pressing 313 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: issues that are falling behind at this stage, UH, than 314 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: it is to wait for some kind of a positive 315 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: response to what's just been happening. We start the fastest 316 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: hour in politics with our panel and our conversation with 317 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: Mark Esper and much more ahead. Stay with us here 318 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,119 Speaker 1: live from Washington. I'm Joe Matthew and this is Bloomberg 319 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: Sound On, and it's only on Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg 320 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: So On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden 321 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 1: will address both Houses of Congress tomorrow night, and of 322 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: course you will hear live special coverage of the State 323 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: of the Union starting eight thirty here on Bloomberg Radio. 324 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, G. D. Schanzana will be on board. I'll 325 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: be up on Capitol Hill. David Weston in town, uh 326 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: in the anchor chair here, and of course President Biden. 327 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: He's got a bunch of different audiences. We talked about 328 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: that a lot. The most important one for him tomorrow 329 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: night is of course, the one at home. That's the 330 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: whole point of this. That's why he's looking into the camera. 331 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: But you're gonna have a room full of people, of course, 332 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: who are not big fans of him, his policies. And 333 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: after what we just saw on the House floor during 334 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy's effort to become speaker, after what we just saw, 335 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: my goodness, in geopolitics, this there's some stuff in the 336 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: air here in Washington. The moment is going to be interesting. 337 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: And he's got a lot of people, a lot of 338 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: Republican lawmakers who are criticizing him about the way this 339 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: balloon situation was handled. Did you see Sunday morning? My goodness, 340 00:17:58,160 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: I mean it was really it was just wall to 341 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: wall everybody's an expert until they aren't type of commentary 342 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: with everybody calling them out on these various talk shows. 343 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: Here's a taste. What began as a spy balloon has 344 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: become a trial balloon testing President Biden's strength and resolve, 345 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: and unfortunately the President failed that test. No, the President 346 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 1: failed on this one. Should have been a lot more transparent, 347 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: should have taken action a lot sooner. This is a 348 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: crisis that has developed as a result of this president 349 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: during his administration, allowing China to do a similar act 350 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: before not responding, and then clearly in this one, not 351 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: seeing the urgency of what was an unfolding. The message 352 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: they were trying to send is what they believe internally, 353 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: and that is that the United States is a once 354 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: great superpower that's hollowed out, that's in decline, and the 355 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: message are trying to send the world does look these 356 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: guys can't even do anything about a balloon flying over 357 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: US airspace. How can you possibly count on them if 358 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: if something were to happen in the end of Pacific region, 359 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna count How can you count on them? If 360 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: they're not gonna do anything about a balloon over US 361 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: air space, how are they going to come to the 362 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: aid of Taiwan or stand with the Philippines or Japan 363 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: or India. So welcome to Capitol Hill, and Mr President, 364 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: we reassemble our panel. Jennie Schanzano and Rick Davis with 365 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: us here. Jennie, is this criticism smart when there could 366 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: be more to learn about this? The administration says it 367 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: took the advice of its military advisors. Should Joe Biden 368 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: not have done that? Yeah? That was a lot of 369 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: hot air, Joe Matthew, just because I want to add 370 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: to the balloon metaphors that you're la, thank you, um. 371 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: You know, I think that they have to be very 372 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: very circumspect here. They really should. The Senators, these members 373 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: of the House on both sides, I too agree their 374 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: enormous number of questions. But did Joe Biden himself? Did 375 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: the administration do anything wrong? You heard Mark Esper say 376 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: he made the right decision not shooting it down over 377 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: US soil, although he might have done it earlier. You know, 378 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: I do agree. Again, there are questions, but they have 379 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: to be very careful because the reality is Joe Biden 380 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: has been very tough on China, more so at least 381 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: rhetorically than any president we've had. And and one example 382 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: I keep using is this is somebody who four times 383 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: said that the United States military would be used to 384 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: defend Taiwan in the invent of an invasion. Invasion, that's 385 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: the first time we've heard a U. S President say 386 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: that openly. He's also somebody who's openly questioned the One 387 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: China policy, only to have the government, the security and 388 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,360 Speaker 1: other apparatus walk that back. So he has been as 389 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: tough on China as any Republicans. So this idea that 390 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: he's not is something the Republicans I think, are going 391 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: to have to be very cautious about. Well, he's going 392 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: to get a grown right at least, right, Rick, I mean, 393 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: in this in this political climate that we're in, this 394 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: could be the Joe Wilson moment when somebody yells something 395 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: out there if he if he starts to get tough, 396 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: which I presume he will on China in the in 397 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: the speech. Yeah. Look, I think we have to dial 398 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: it back to the day before we learned about this balloon, 399 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: and we were all talking about how China unifies the 400 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Republican and the democratic establishments around a common enemy and 401 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: I and I say enemy and not too strong a language. Uh. 402 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: The reality is the balloon uh fiasco uh has been 403 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: criticized because it's a scratch your head moment. We if 404 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: we knew when this thing was coming into the country, 405 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: we couldn't shoot it off over the over isolated area. 406 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: We let it loiter around to some of our most 407 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: secure locations in in in the continent United States. I mean, 408 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: it just betrays any sensibility. And sure, you can hide 409 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: behind your military advisors who might have been wrong in 410 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: this instance, right, and as president, you're the commander in chief. 411 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: You have to take responsibility. You're not gonna sit behind 412 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of guys with braid and say, oh, they 413 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: told me so, so at the end of the day, 414 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: I think that the split here isn't as it relates 415 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: to the policy of China. It relates to this one 416 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: instant where the president could have looked like he was 417 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: in control and chose to be very ash and very 418 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: cautious and and and and has gotten criticism from both 419 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats on this issue. If he didn't know though, 420 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: until it was already though, it's not as it relates 421 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: to the entire China portfolio. This one instance, if he 422 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: didn't know that this was the case until it was 423 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: over US territory though, which we understand he was briefed 424 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: on Tuesday, right, so this thing was already over the 425 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: continental US unless I'm misunderstanding something here. And that's the 426 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: point when the Pentagon says, well, you need to hold 427 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: on MS the President, we can't do this overland, Genie, 428 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: is that going to hold up. Well, it depends on 429 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: what we learned subsequently, and again there is an awful 430 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: lot to learn. So if that is the case, and 431 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: he said I want to take it down and the 432 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: Pentagon said you can't do it over our territory, you 433 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: gotta wait, then he absolutely make the right moves, as 434 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: Mark Esperd just told you, and I would say, on 435 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: a bipartisan basis in the House, let alone the Senate. 436 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,679 Speaker 1: This new Select Committee on China is one I have 437 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: a lot of hope for. Mike Gallagher, a Republican who's 438 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: leading is a very serious critic. He is somebody who 439 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: is well informed on this. Mike Wessel the the Democrat there. 440 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: That is I think a vision of bipartisan hope for 441 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: what we do visa VR China policy overall. And I'm 442 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: hoping the President talks about that or at least works 443 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: with that Select Committee because it's an important one, and 444 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: their whole vision is to focus on our policy towards 445 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: China and a variety of perspectives. And it is a bipartisan, 446 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: serious committee at least so far. It's just getting started. 447 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: So wreck. The president woke up to some new polling 448 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: numbers today, Uh Washington Post ABC News poll as he 449 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: prepares to take a victory lap as as it's frequently 450 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: referred to in this state of the Union. Look at 451 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: the accomplishments, the infrastructure, the Inflation Reduction Act, the burn 452 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: Pits legislation. Where do I stop? I could keep going? 453 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: Sixty two percent of Americans think the president has accomplished 454 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: quote not very much, unquote or little or nothing during 455 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: his presidency thirty six he has accomplished a great deal. 456 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: How come he is not connecting on this list of accomplishments. Yeah, 457 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: so much for that mid term dividend that he was 458 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: supposed to receive for overperforming on history. Uh yeah, Look, 459 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: it's a real fundamental problem. He's entering a campaign period. 460 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: People do actually think a little differently when they're entering, 461 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, their opportunity to cast a vote for the president, 462 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: and they look at him, you know, already probably as 463 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: a candidate for president. And so when you see the 464 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: numbers collapse, I think in a people that I just 465 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: read today in October, fifty of his own party said 466 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: he should run for re election and now it's down 467 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: to thirty seven percent, and all he did was be successful? 468 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: Uh so, uh is it his age? Is it time 469 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: for a generational change? You hear a lot of these 470 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: kinds of things, but at the end of the day, 471 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: it's a real sobering moment when you wake up as 472 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: president United States on eve of your State of the Union, 473 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: after a successful election process and you see these kind 474 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: of numbers and saying, bass, really, I am totally unsuccessful 475 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: at selling my vision of accomplishments. So what is that? Rick? 476 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: Just out of the other number that I'm sure is 477 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: keeping them up at night right now of Democrats want 478 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: him to seek a second term. He's got a great 479 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: story to tell. Actually, is it just too wonky? Is 480 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: it too boring for people? You know? You know? And 481 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: that's as Rick's a down from fifty per cent. I mean, 482 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: it is a big drop, and it's a problem we're 483 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: seeing across the board. The president great jobs numbers, you 484 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: couldn't have had better on Friday, as you talked about, 485 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: and then what is he here? He sees Pole saying 486 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: only of Americans think the economy is excellent or good, 487 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: And you can go right down the line. There's this 488 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: enormous division in terms of the reality of the numbers 489 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: and what people feel about how Biden has done, how 490 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: the Biden administration has performed. People are incredibly pessimistic and 491 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: it is something not just Joe Biden but all presidents 492 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: in the modern era have to deal with. So he 493 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: is going to have to stick to the facts. The 494 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: facts are, he passed much more legislation than people imagined. 495 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: The facts are, the jobs numbers are very good. You know, 496 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: he has things to talk about. He's got to keep 497 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: plugging away with his surrogates to make the case and 498 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: hope that he can break through this very sort of 499 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: pessimistic sense that people have. And I would go back 500 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: to one of the reasons. People in the United States 501 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: feel very insecure in many ways, and that insecurity is 502 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: leading them to feel pessimistic about the future, and that 503 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: is hurting Joe Biden and anybody else in office. Does 504 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 1: that mean he's got to wait a lot longer than 505 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: he planned to announce the re election campaign, Rick, or, 506 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: was that already the plan to wigh There's no need 507 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: to hurry. Look, if he's running for re election, there's 508 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: no need to hurry. If he's not running for re election, 509 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: it's really important that he stepped out of the political 510 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: limelight and let the party start to field some candidates. 511 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: I think there is a generational component to this. When 512 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: you look at that AP number, most of the loss 513 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: has come from people eighteen to forty four years old. 514 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: I mean, over forty five, it actually increased the number 515 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: of people who were interested in him running for reactions. 516 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: So I think there's an issue with the younger generation 517 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 1: of people who see this as yesterday's news. And and 518 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: I think that's the same situation with Republicans. I don't 519 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: think the Republicans get a buy on this. I think 520 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: when you ask some young people about Donald Trump, they 521 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: see that is yesterday's news, yesterday's generation. So I think 522 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: we're in for a generational fight in the next two years. 523 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: And and it just depends on what candidates are on 524 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: that ballot to appeal to a new generation of voters. 525 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano our panel today on Bloomberg 526 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: Sound on. We're gonna bring Nathan Dean and from Bloomberg 527 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 1: Intelligence next with some specifics on the State of the 528 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: Union for tomorrow. This is Bloomberg So No with Joe 529 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Little snake peek at the State 530 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: of the Union address via the terminal. Biden to call 531 00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: for billionaire tacks, bigger levy on stock buy backs. Fascinating 532 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: because we've heard these before. A President Biden calling for 533 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: the quadruple ng of a corporate stock buy back levy, 534 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: and renewing calls for a minimum tax on billionaires coming tomorrow. 535 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: This is going to be interesting since they don't likely 536 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: have much chance in a Republican lead house. Speaking earlier 537 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: today in the White House briefing room, Brian Deese, the 538 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: outgoing now chief Economic advisor to President Biden, suggesting that 539 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: there will also be an olive branch coming from the 540 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: Speaker's roster, and listen, you will hear an openness and 541 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: in fact an eagerness to have a real serious conversation 542 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: about the fiscal and economic priorities of the country and 543 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: where we can find common ground on things like lowering 544 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: costs for families, on things like how do we keep 545 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: investing in the country. But as I read from Nathan 546 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: Dean at Bloomberg Intelligence, Biden's State of the Union probably 547 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: short on investment catalysts, and Nathan is with us. Now, 548 00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: I appreciate the time, Nathan, as we look ahead of 549 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: to R and Night, is your take on that, because 550 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: these ideas like a billionaire attacks a bigger tax on 551 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: corporate stock buybacks don't really stand a chance. Yeah, that's right. 552 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean, there's really two ways to think about the 553 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: state of the Union. It's domestic policy and foreign policy. 554 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 1: And domestic policy, you're gonna hear a lot about goals 555 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: for the year. You know, you're gonna hear a lot 556 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: about a victory lap of healthcare and infrastructure. But like 557 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned before, you need an Act of Congress for 558 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: a lot of this, and in divided government you really 559 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: just don't get that. Um. The one option is really 560 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: the debt ceiling. You know, this is a must pass 561 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: piece of legislation. Something's got to happen here. So you 562 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: may hear language from President Biden essentially saying we want 563 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: to clean debt ceiling. Raise right now as we speak, 564 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy is talking about how 565 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: we need to cut there's gonna be some type of negotiation, 566 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: but the debt ceiling is important. Also important is foreign policy. 567 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: This is where the president has a lot of more 568 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: a lot more power. So you're gonna hear language about Ukraine, 569 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: China and global geopolitical matters. Um. This is where I 570 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a little bit more to pay 571 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: attention to you, because you know, the President can do 572 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: a lot by avoiding Congress. Certainly the case for Ukraine, 573 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: I know that a strong case will be made. And 574 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: as we think back a year, uh, Nathan, that was 575 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: really issue number one as he addressed a joint session 576 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: of Congress last year. We're coming up now, of course 577 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: on the anniversary, and he's got some skeptical as we've 578 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: discussed people in the room here. When it comes to 579 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: future funding for the war in Ukraine. Is that going 580 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: to be a big portion of the address. Yeah, I 581 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: think the word on Ukraine is essentially President Biden needs 582 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: to keep the momentum going. I mean, I think right 583 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: now there's support, enough support and Congress for additional funds 584 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: and so forth like that, But it's really about trying 585 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: to sell the American people why a war that's been 586 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: going on for a while needs to continue with American support. 587 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: Like you mentioned, there are some folks in Congress that 588 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: aren't on board with this. Uh. As the presidential election 589 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: cycle heats up, you may start to see others talk 590 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: about why are we still spending money here? So I 591 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: don't think you're gonna see anything actionable in terms of 592 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: changing in the guard on Ukraine. Uh, it's really is 593 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: trying to keep that momentum going. And then on China, 594 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: obviously the Chinese balloon matter is going to change things. 595 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: This is where we think there's potential for other issues, 596 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: So something is important to keep in mind. And whether 597 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: or not he changes his policy there, does he mention 598 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: it like you have mentioned the eight pound balloon in 599 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: the room now, I I you know, I wish you would, 600 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: that'd be kind of funny, but uh, you know, when 601 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: it comes to China, you know, we actually wrote this note, 602 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: and we our original version of this note was essentially 603 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: saying that, you know, uh, we don't think that President 604 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: Biden's really you know, President Biden's attempt here is to 605 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: soften the tone, try and re established better relations and 606 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: so forth, now that the balloon incident has occurred, that 607 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: he really I don't think you can say that. We 608 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: do think there's the feasibility, although a very low likelihood, 609 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: that he could announce like a new type of action, 610 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: if you will, against China. But really I think here 611 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: is he's still going to try and soften the tone. Uh, 612 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: you know, but I would also just say Speaker House 613 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy has said that he plans to go to 614 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: Taiwan in the next few months or you know, sometime 615 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: this year has the momentum to really change things where 616 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: that sure does. And I'll be very curious to hear 617 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: if we get that announcement anytime soon. Bloomberg Intelligence goes 618 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: on to writ big tech may feel the heat, but 619 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: not a burn. Uh. This is one of the few 620 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: bipartisan issues, even if they're motivated by different interests out there. 621 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: Does he go after Google, Facebook, social media, etcetera? Or 622 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: does he carve out a spot for TikTok tomorrow? And 623 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: I well, you know, it's funny enough. Somebody asked him 624 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: today do you support banning TikTok? And his answer was, 625 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: I don't have TikTok on my phone. Um. You know 626 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: there is a chance that he will call it big tech. Um. 627 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: You know, first off, big tech investors should note that, 628 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, anything that's going to happen has to go 629 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: through Congress, and like you mentioned, it's bipartisan, but they 630 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: can't agree on what uh you know. So the question 631 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: here is is that does he say anything that actually 632 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: can cause actionable in Congress? Man? Maybe not. Just remember 633 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: Congress drives the legislation, not the president. President byen can 634 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: say I want to do X, Y and z, and 635 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: Congress doesn't matter if you're Republican or Democrat will say 636 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: thank sir. But we have our own plans. So when 637 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: it comes to the tech stocks, you know, our analysts 638 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: are thinking headline risk. But just make sure you follow 639 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: the process and note that a lot of this is 640 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: just not going to ever see the light of day. 641 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: Headline risk. Yes, some of the others I mentioned, billionaire attacks, 642 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: stock buy back levy, uh not realistic to see the 643 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: light of day. Which brings us back to your headlines 644 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: short on investment catalysts. Does infrastructure bring news to Wall 645 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: Street at all? We've heard so many references to these 646 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: projects when we hear earnings reports from the Caterpillars and 647 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: Deers of the world. There could be other industries obviously 648 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: Telecom included that could that could benefit from a lot 649 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: over the next couple of years. Yeah, exactly. I mean, 650 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: so the infrastructure, the way to think about infrastructure is 651 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: that you know, you had trillions of dollars, you know, 652 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: billions of dollars sent out to industries. The way that 653 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: the infrastructure, the Inflation Reduction Act and then previously the 654 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: Investment in Infrastructure and Jobs Act works is that it 655 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: dulls out moneys to certain agencies and sectors. It takes 656 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: eighteen months to twenty four months to get that through 657 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: the cycle. And so we're just now starting to see 658 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: the economic impact of these funds that came out from 659 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: the last year. So you're not gonna see anything new, 660 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: but you know, to your point about Caterpillar and all 661 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: these other companies, you know, we previously identified a hunter 662 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: in ten companies that would stand to benefit from this bill, 663 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: and those benefits will go over the next five to 664 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: seven years. The biggest concern from the infrastructure side, though, 665 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: is that when it comes to the dead ceiling fight, 666 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: there's this thought we're gonna have to cut funds, and 667 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: if there is funds that have not been allocated and 668 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: not been used, then they are actually at risk of 669 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: being used or taken. So keep that in mind. A 670 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: lot to keep in mind. Nathan, thank you for coming in, 671 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: and we should do this more off and Nathan Dean, 672 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: Senior government analyst, Bloomberg Intelligence Genie Chanzano, what do you 673 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: make of that? The idea of cutting this precious infrastructure 674 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: spending that you know, he was the first president since 675 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: FDR to be able to come up with this. It's 676 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: not about to cut it, is he You know, it's 677 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: hard to believe he is, because you heard him at 678 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: the Annual Winter Meeting in Philadelphia and he spent some time, 679 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, touting the biggest investment in infrastructure since I 680 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: think he's talking Eisenhower. So the idea that he would 681 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: cut it is hard to imagine. But the reality is 682 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: he wants to not just you know, tout what he's 683 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: done and he's had an enormous number of legislative accomplishments. 684 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: He also wants to differentiate himself from the Republicans, and 685 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: I think that's where that conversation may arise, because he's 686 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: gonna say very clearly, I believe I'll protect Medicare, social Security. 687 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: I won't let them pass the thirty percent national sales tax. 688 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: I won't won't let them be in the right to choose. So, 689 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: if it comes down to it, and he wants to 690 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: be seen as being, you know, careful with the budget 691 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: and careful with the deficit, he may say things that 692 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: are not spent on infrastructure should go back. So we 693 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: may see some of that, but you know, it is 694 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 1: a big accomplishment of his who I think he wants 695 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: to be able to keep saying that. You do wonder 696 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: how much of this speech is going to be looking back, 697 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: taking credit victory lap versus proposing new ideas Tomorrow night, Well, 698 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: of course I'll be listening closely, and Rick and Jeanie 699 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: will be with us on our special coverage, Final Thoughts, 700 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: Straight Ahead on sound On with the panel. This is Bloomberg. 701 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg son On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 702 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On is brought to you by Innovation Refunds. 703 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: This is your daily reminder from Innovation Refunds. There's still 704 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: time to claim the employee Retention credit. Unlike the p 705 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: P P the e r C is not alone. Business 706 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 1: owners can use the e r C to expand their company, 707 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,319 Speaker 1: payoff debts, or higher new talent. The money is there 708 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: to help your business as you see fit. Learn more 709 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: at get refunds dot com. Harry Whittington told The Washington 710 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: Post about four years after being shot on a hunting 711 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: trip that all he remembered was the smell of burning 712 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: powder before he passed out. Of course, Harry Whittington, you 713 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: remember that name. He was the man shot in the 714 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: face by then Vice President Dick Cheney with the twenty 715 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: eight gauge shotgun. This is during a quail hunting trip 716 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: in two thousand six, leaving over two dozen bird shot 717 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: pellets lodged in his body. He died at his home 718 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: in Austin on the fourth of February. He was ninety 719 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: five years old. Of course, this became a meme before memes. 720 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: It was a scandal for the Vice president. It was 721 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: a gift to late night hosts. Even Dick Cheney himself 722 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: got a sense of humor eventually, as we all learned 723 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: at the Radio TV Correspondence Dinner in two thousand six. 724 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: Listen to Dick Cheney as he shows up at the 725 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: podium wearing a hunting hat and said this, you'd be amazed, 726 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,359 Speaker 1: and how many guys I want to go fishing with 727 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:55,919 Speaker 1: me these days. Yeah, but there was not a joke 728 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: when it happened. And Harry Whittington spoke to reporters when 729 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: he was finally released from the hospital with bird shot 730 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: pellets still lodged in his face. Here he is my family, 731 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: and I are deeply sorry for all that Vice President 732 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: Cheney and his family have had to go through this 733 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: past week. We send our love and respect to them 734 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: as I deal with with situations that are much more 735 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: serious than what we've had this week, and we hope 736 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: that he will continue to come to Texas and seek 737 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 1: the relaxation that he deserves. Unreal, uh Rick and Jennie 738 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: certainly remember this, uh and Rick to think that he 739 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: would apologize as he emerged from the hospital that he's 740 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,439 Speaker 1: the one apologizing. Haven't been shot in the face says 741 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: so much about the state of politics even then, compared 742 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: to what might happen now, doesn't it. Yeah, it's a 743 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: little hard to explain. Actually, I guess there were a 744 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 1: couple of really good looking dove or peasants that he 745 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: got in the way of So it's it's it's looked 746 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: gentleman like like him or hard to find. Harry was 747 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: a terrific guy to all who knew him. And and 748 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: and thank goodness that Dick Cheney didn't accidentally shoot somebody 749 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: else who had frankly less of big heart than Harry did. 750 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: So condolences to Harry's family. But uh, you know, it 751 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: really was something and I and I and and you 752 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: didn't hear much comedy out of Dick Cheney during that error, 753 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: but that's pretty I remember sitting there when he came 754 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: out in that hat. Nobody could believe it. He was 755 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: he was doing comedy that night, so to speak, Genie, 756 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: because George W. Bush couldn't show up. Uh, he couldn't 757 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: make it for for some reason. But this has helped 758 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: to find Dick Cheney over the years as well. Right, 759 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: this is something that will follow him forever. Yeah, and 760 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, Harry Whittington joined Alexander Hamilton's only two people 761 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,320 Speaker 1: shot by a sitting vice president. Yeah, and of course, 762 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 1: and of course Alexander Hamilton's I would guess I don't 763 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: know for sir in because it was before all of 764 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,879 Speaker 1: our time. But I would guess he didn't go out 765 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: and apologize and the way that Harry Whittington did, So, 766 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: you know, I remember this so well. And you know 767 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: what strikes me is this just consumed the media narrative 768 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: for days and days and days, and now today, you know, 769 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: it just gets a pass It would probably just get 770 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: a passing reference. I don't that's right. And it possessed 771 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: the nation for quite a long even longer waiting for 772 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: his recovery. Now, well, you know we talked about Joe 773 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: Biden falling off his bike. Rick, Are the days of 774 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: hunting trips over for presidents and vice presidents? I don't 775 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: think so. Um, certainly the Secret Service are going to 776 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: be a little more on their toes. I bet they 777 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: will if they saved Harry Whittington's life. By the way, 778 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 1: but this is uh yeah, I mean Harry suffered a 779 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: heart attack as a result of the uh the shot, 780 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: so uh, kudos to the Secret Service for for being 781 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: able to bring him back alive. Well, if Rick and 782 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: Janie with us on a big night in Washington, the 783 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: super Bowl of Politics tomorrow. Special coverage starts at eight 784 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,240 Speaker 1: thirty This Dad of the Union here, of course, only 785 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg,