1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Grading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul. 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: Mission Controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, 8 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: to know. Before we get started, shot Spotter did reach 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: out to us regarding some of the statistics provided in 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: our episodes and their position with respect to the Williams case. 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: Shot spot a disclaims all responsibility and Mr williams incarceration 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: and disagrees with the associated press is factual assertions regarding 14 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: changing locations. If you're interested in reviewing additional information from 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: shot Spotter on these topics, please visit www dot shot 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: spotter dot com. Before we get too carried away and 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: what may well be a two part series, we want 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: to give a couple of shoutouts. Shout out to Mission 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: Control as student listeners. You may notice that he made 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: his first on air appearance quite recently, working with our 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: good friends Illumination Global Unlimited. So that's the kind of 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: door you can't close. Paul, Welcome to the show. Also 23 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: shout out to everyone who picked up a copy of 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: our book. Stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, 25 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: we've been getting this is this really neat thing happening 26 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: on social media. People are sending like or they're posting 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: when the book arrives for them. For folks who ordered 28 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: to a physical or print copy, it always makes our 29 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: day to see it because we really, um, I don't 30 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: know the kind of folks we are, Matt Nolan. I know. 31 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: One of the first things we talked about when we 32 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: finally got got the manuscript on on this one was Okay, 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: what's our next book? And everybody, everybody's telling us, slow down, 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta talk about this this first one. 35 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: So we might even have an episode where we talk 36 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: about the process of of going through this book. If 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: that would if that would be interesting to anyone? What 38 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: do you what do you guys think would that be interesting? 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: Or is that like I mean, I was interesting, I'm 40 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: interested and I went through it, so I think, you know, 41 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of mystical stuff wrapped up in the 42 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: publishing world, and I think, um, there could be some 43 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know about the stuff 44 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Perhaps maybe we can 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: get Neils on the show with us oh Man, the Man, 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: the mid the legend. Uh, if we can pull him 47 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: away from Arnold Schwarzenegger, that is a true story, And 48 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: just that kind of offense comment makes I I don't know, Yeah, 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: I'm I'm on board. Uh, we'll Arnold's pretty strong. I 50 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: don't know I'm able to pull him away. If he 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: doesn't want to relinquish him. We'll have to entice him 52 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: with like cigars. I'm thinking like one of those old 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: school cartoon traps where you've got a box and then 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: there's a stick, you know, and then we got we 55 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: got like some Cuban cigars there, and we just get 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: him towards the box and we pulled the string. Have 57 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to be a Arnold. Arnold sets traps up like that, 58 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: like he knows, he knows that tactic. The stick is 59 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: the cigar, the box is a cigar box, and then 60 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: the treat is also a cigar and mess around and 61 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: catch a predator in there eats cigars. Uh so yes, Well, 62 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: we'll put a pin in that. Maybe we'll just be 63 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: honest with Arnold ask hi if we can borrow his 64 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: buddy for a minute. But in the meantime, we have 65 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: to be honest. The for us to be able to 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: put in our awesome ACME level plans, we're going to 67 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: need to not get to by a company called shot Spotter. 68 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: That's right. Today we are looking at the gritty world 69 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: of crime, the bleeding edge of technology, and of course, 70 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: sadly more than a little bit of corruption and conspiracy 71 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: depending on who you ask. This is our shot Spotter episode, 72 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: and we want to thank everybody who took the time 73 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: to write in, from everyone from activists to active members 74 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: of law enforcement to regular regular folks who don't work 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: in a related industry. But we're saying, hey, this is 76 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: scary stuff, let's learn more about it. So we want 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: to thank all of you. You might get a name 78 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: drop as we as we explore this troublesome, controversial story. 79 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: And again what will probably have to be a two 80 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: part episode, So here are the facts. We're talking about crime. 81 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: We're not gonna be uh, you know, we we don't 82 00:04:54,400 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: like the exploitative or exploitative nature of some some ways 83 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: the media explores crime or reports on it. But it's 84 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: no secret, right, everybody knows the United States has a 85 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: huge problem with gun deaths in particular. Right, that's not 86 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: a hot take, I think. So it seems that we're 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: sort of an outlier in that respect, uh, compared to 88 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: other parts of the world. Um. I don't have the 89 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: stats in front of me right this exact second, but 90 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: you sure hear a lot more about people getting killed 91 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: by weapons here in America than you do. And say, 92 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: you know the UK or Asia. Well we've got some 93 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: stats right from the pure Oh yeah, those are the 94 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: ones that we've got. We've got some I mean to 95 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: your point, And well, it's that I think we're also 96 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: referring there specifically to global conversions, right, global comparisons, right, Um, 97 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: And we haven't pulled that because right now shot Spotter 98 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: is still very much United States and North American story. 99 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: But I would pause it. It's not going to be 100 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: that way for long. We'll see why. I mean, look, 101 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: we always want to be very mindful about the way 102 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: we address anything related to mass shootings and gun deaths 103 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: in the United States. There's no end to people arguing 104 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: different perspectives on this, Right, how did this country come 105 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: to be in this position? How best to solve or 106 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: address the issue? But everybody can agree there is a problem. 107 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: For today's episode spoiler, we're probably not going to be 108 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: the folks to fix it. But if you'd like to 109 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: learn more about these perspectives, check out some of our 110 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: previous work on this. And you know what, if you're 111 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: listening and you specifically have the answer to solving gun 112 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: deaths in the United States, or at least put in 113 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: them in line with other countries, don't even wait to 114 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: listen to the rest of this episode. Just pause it 115 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: and then email the answer to us now, because we 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: will put it on air if we think it's legit. 117 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: Everybody once this problem solved because places like the Pew 118 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: Research Center like you mentioned, Matt and the c d C, 119 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: places that are objective, quantitative based institutions, they noticed that 120 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: gun deaths aren't just a problem historically in the US, 121 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: gun deaths are actually escalating. They are on the rise 122 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: in a dangerous way. Yeah, well, let's go ahead and 123 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: say it. So. In the year of the pandemic, it 124 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: was the most people affected by gun related injuries on record, Right, 125 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: and this as we record this episode, is the latest 126 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: set of numbers that we have from that year. It 127 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: says forty five thousand, two hundred and twenty two people 128 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: died from gun related injuries in the United States. In Jesus, 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: that just seems egregious. That's an insane number. I mean, 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: how many people died from traffic accidents in a year? 131 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: Is there more than a less than that? I think? Well, 132 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: think about it. Is there an active war within the 133 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: United States where that number of casualties by gun would 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: make sense logically? Right, where there's an active there's an 135 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: active gunfight in an area of you know, a country 136 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: at maybe any time. No, this is just standard living. 137 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: And it is more people than traffic. Oh, yes, it's 138 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: a double I just looked it up. About twenty thousand 139 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes, uh in twenty twell, 140 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: the first half of two. Yeah, it's okay, maybe it's 141 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:43,439 Speaker 1: about equal. Then roughly it's scary. Uh. The Department of 142 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: Transportation said, Uh, three thirty eight thousand, eighty four people 143 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: died in traffic fatalities, So more people were dying of 144 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: gun related deaths rather than traffic, which is crazy because 145 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: way more people in cars than own guns, you know 146 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: what I mean, it's it's far more likely for anybody's 147 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: not in the US. You know, there's this stereotyped as 148 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: some truth to it that a lot of our non 149 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: US friends will will point to where other people in Europe, 150 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: for example, have this image of every American rolling strapped 151 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: to the gills. That's not true, Like there is a 152 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: lot of gun ownership, but many of the people who 153 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: own firearms, who sort of contribute significantly to those ownership statistics, 154 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: they own multiple firearms. They're kind of messing with the 155 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: bell curve at that point. But to that image that 156 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: you describe, Ben, I mean, in certain states where there 157 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: are open carry laws, you will see individuals literally strapped 158 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: walking through target or what have you. Uh, And for 159 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: folks that are not expecting to see that, and for 160 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: folks from countries where even the police don't have guns 161 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: most of the most of the time, that image must 162 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: seem just absurdly cartoonish. As you would say, bet, yeah, yeah, again, 163 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: there's there's a little bit of truth to it. And 164 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: you know, in full disclosure, Georgia, where this podcast has recorded, 165 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: recently became one of those, uh, one of the more 166 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: strident open carry states. You don't have to have a 167 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: license to rock a firearm in this state currently. But 168 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: we got to dive into these stats. So, Matt, you said, 169 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: over forty five thousand people forty two and twenty two. 170 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: This number includes um includes some disturbing stuff. It let's 171 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: talk about what it doesn't include. It does not include 172 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: deaths where gunshot injuries played a contributing but not primary role. 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: What that means is like if someone if someone isn't 174 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: an altercation, right, and let's I mean, this is brutal, 175 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: but this hypothetical example, say someone is in a domestic 176 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: violence situation, or they're in something like, uh, a bar 177 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: fight or whatever like the old Jim Crocey song, he 178 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: was stabbed in a bunch of place, has shot in 179 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: a couple more that kind of thing. If stab wounds 180 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: are the primary cause of death, then they're not going 181 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: to count as a gun death because the c d 182 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: C gets these numbers by looking at death certificates. Death 183 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: certificates pick one thing as a form of demise or 184 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the way someone dies. But there's a 185 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: lot of confusion. There's a lot of misinformation about these 186 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: tragic events. Homicides and mass shootings often get reported right there. 187 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: There is disturbing times where it seems like a mass 188 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: shooting is in the news all too frequently. You know, 189 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: not that there's ever a good time for that to 190 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: be a story in the news, but there's less public 191 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: attention on suicides. And if you look at the statistics, 192 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: the majority of gun deaths in the United States are 193 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: not homicides, they're suicides. Was fifty of all the country's 194 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: firearm deaths. There were people taking their own lives. This 195 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: also accelerated during the pandemic, and that's heartbreaking. We should 196 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: also know that that large number of plus thousand also 197 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: includes deaths well when the encounters with law enforcement, right, yes, 198 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: six hundreds so are just considered murders. There would be 199 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: criminals civilian purposely killing one another, taking one's old life. 200 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: And then the the other category, the miscellaneous, the three 201 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: percent includes stuff like unintentional accidental discharged deaths. It's about 202 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: five thirty five people UH deaths that involve law enforcement, 203 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: which is they have very specific reasons for picking that 204 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: language that led to the deaths of six d and 205 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: eleven people. And then there's good old undetermined circumstances. We're 206 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: not sure, but four people are dead. So I mean, 207 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 1: I think it's clear there is a problem based on 208 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: literally everything we've just said, uh, supported by all of 209 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: these troubling statistics. And every day more than fifty people 210 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: are murdered, intentionally killed. I know, you know what murdered means, 211 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: but I just want to hit that home with a gun. 212 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: And another eleven hundred are threatened, menaced, uh, perhaps even abducted, 213 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, in some way coerced during some commission of 214 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: a violent crime. And of course, whatever your stance might 215 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: be on the Second Amendment, when you know this is 216 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: a very fraught issue, I think there I think any 217 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: of the three of us would also argue that maybe not, 218 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: but uh, I think it's important to be able to 219 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,599 Speaker 1: defend one's self. Um, but I think that should be 220 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: there should be checks and balances on that, and I 221 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: think the ones that are in place aren't mega great. Uh. 222 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing. Regardless of your personal stance 223 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: on the Second Amendment or on gun owner rights or 224 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: firearm legislation and what have you, everyone can agree that 225 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: fewer gun deaths would be a wonderful thing. That's why 226 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: there are people working around the clock to prevent them. 227 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: We're talking about prevention, We're talking about tons of different 228 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: proposed strategies. Some are more popular than others, but right 229 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: now there's not a universal one that everyone agrees on. 230 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: There are things like higher levels of gun control that 231 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: would be a bucket that includes stuff like makes certain 232 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: types of firearms illegal. It doesn't matter you know how 233 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: clean or spotless your background check is. You just can't 234 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: have this one. People don't like hearing that. A lot 235 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: of firearm enthusiasts think that's the wrong way to go. 236 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: And then there's the idea, let's just have higher standards 237 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: for firearm purchasing or for tracking a fire arm right 238 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: And we do know this is complicated because powerful financial 239 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: interest are at play here. That's an a political point. 240 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: Profits p r o f i t s only care 241 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: about politics, uh, inasmuch as it affects the bottom line. 242 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: So we have to be really careful to check sources 243 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: to um not immediately fall for hyperbolic headlines if those 244 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: headlines are bought, and that goes unfortunately, that include some 245 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: academic studies as well. Well. Sure, and I mean a 246 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: lot of these companies that manufacture firearms are some of 247 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: the oldest you know, still around. I mean like Smith 248 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: and Wesson. You know, companies have been making guns since 249 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: the wild West days. And what happens when you have 250 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: that legacy, You got legacy money that you can use 251 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: to hire law firms and lobbyists and and pr spins 252 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: and and and unfortunately literally by politicians. You know, whether 253 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: or not you think that's hyperbolic or not, I I 254 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: think there's some truth to that. I mean, certainly you 255 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: can't argue that some levels of lobbying is exactly that 256 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: is buying politicians, at the very least coercing or influencing 257 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: them in a pretty toxic way. Whole chapter in the 258 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: book about it. Folks, check it out. It's the one. Uh, 259 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: it's one of the ones we almost published as an 260 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: audiobook excerpt here on the show Firebook fire Buck Us. 261 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: So this, yeah, this is true. Money is involved. That's 262 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: a big thing. But also I think a lot of 263 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: folks might miss this if they're outside observers. Many US 264 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: residents don't just consider firearm ownership a legal right. For many, 265 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: it's seen as a fundamental part of America's cultural fabric, 266 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: and it comes from the healthy skepticism that argues it 267 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: is our right as citizens to be prepared against government 268 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: tyranny or the ry of dangerous regimes. This is a 269 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: very old idea, dates all the way back to the 270 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: American Revolution, or as our British friends probably call it, 271 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: the peasant unpleasantness. Because like that that I read that 272 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: as the pleasant unpleasantness. It was very confused. The peasants 273 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 1: are unpleasant and to have been since this late seventeen hundred. 274 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: Something must be done. It's a good strategy to make 275 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: sure the peasants can make it very unpleasant for any 276 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: ruler who decides to put him or herself in power. Right, 277 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: I think it's probably a good thing. Yeah, I agree. 278 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean that's the look. That's that's another reason there 279 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: are things like term limits, and you don't have to 280 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: look far to see what happens when the peaceful succession 281 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: of power is endangered or when people start ignoring those 282 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: checks and balances in the government. Right now, I'm thinking, 283 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: of course, of our man Gijiping out in China who 284 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: just started just kicked out some rivals, had another purge 285 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: of the party and made some barnstorming speeches for him 286 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: at least uh, and is probably going to continue to 287 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: try to be president for as long as possible. Uh. 288 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: This is the kind of stuff that can happen in 289 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: the founding fathers of the United States, as imperfect and 290 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: at times hypocritical as they were, they were aware of 291 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: the danger. And that's something that a lot of people 292 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: point to when they talk about the Second Amendment. Also 293 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: go back to the business people in the US by 294 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: guns all the time, and there are lobbying groups that 295 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: will see these pseudo grassroots stories about ammunition being in 296 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: shortage because that makes people buy more AMMO instantly. Um 297 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: in US residents bought twenty million guns. Then again, a 298 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: lot of those are from maybe collectors or from people 299 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: who own more both firearms already. So it's not as if, 300 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: you know, the stereotype does bug me. But just to 301 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: be clear, it's not as if a child is born 302 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: in the US and has given a pacifier and like 303 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: a tiny forty five or something you know, uh there, yeah, yeah, 304 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: they're not enough muscles in that baby's arm to fire 305 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: any sized oh tiny. Brought to you by Illumination Global 306 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: Unlimited and its subsidiaries Smith and Wesson. I love that 307 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: you shout them out. In all, they made over a 308 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: billion dollars last year alone, uh twenty million guns just 309 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: for context, breaks down to about six guns for every 310 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: one US residents give you go off census numbers, so 311 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 1: there are a lot. There are a lot more than 312 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: you would find in parts of Europe. Well, all this 313 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: in mind, you can see how these things complicate this issue. Right, 314 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: But I feel like, Okay, tell me if I'm if 315 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: I'm off base here, guys, I feel like even the 316 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: most hardcore firearm enthusiasts are going to know many I 317 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: think all three of us do. I think even the 318 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: most hardcore are going to agree that they also want 319 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: far fewer gun deaths right there. Their ideas about how 320 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: to get to that point may be very different from 321 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 1: other ideas you hear, but everybody ultimately doesn't want a 322 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: ton of people to die, right the vast majority of 323 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: people in the US. If you said, hey, do you 324 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: think there should be more gun deaths, their answer is 325 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: going to be absolutely not. Because they're not monsters, and 326 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: uh they their answers, like their ideas or proposals might 327 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: not seem like the right move to everyone. But people 328 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: are trying to think of solutions and you know they 329 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: might say, hey, we need more responsibility from fellow gun 330 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: old owners right, or we need we need technology right 331 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 1: to help prevent gun deaths. And this is where the 332 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: crux of the story starts coming together. I mean, we 333 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: live in such an amazing crazy time. You're listening to 334 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,679 Speaker 1: this podcast. You met to pay on your age, you 335 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: may have met someone who was around before television even 336 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: now you know they were probably very elderly when you 337 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 1: met them. But that's nuts. Uh if you look at 338 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: how quickly the pace of technology has escalated, did you 339 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: guys see I think it was the most recent SNL 340 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: episode with a lot of the new cast in there. 341 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: They did this great cold open with I think will 342 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: you snap or something like that or when will you snap? 343 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: It was all about like breaking down because of the news, 344 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: and there was a moment in there where they were 345 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: uh bow and Yang was was rattling off facts about 346 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's age and like milestones in his life, like 347 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: when he got his first personal computer and how he 348 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 1: was in his fifties when he got when you know 349 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: you could get the first personal computer something ridiculous like that. 350 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: I was just like, oh boy, oh boy. Okay, I 351 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: think for a lot of people might be you know, 352 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: a grandparent, right, because television was invented. Our television kind 353 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: of debuted in nine late so so yeah, histories, it's 354 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: going crazy. It's information overload, it's technology overload. People are 355 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: saying technology is either different forms attack are either going 356 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: to destroy the world or save it, and both of 357 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: those things. Just like Schrodinger's cat, both of those things 358 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: are true. Right now, those same contradictory states exist. We 359 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: just have to We don't know what happens as we 360 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: slowly open the box, but we are going to pause 361 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor, and then we'll be back 362 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit more about the technology or 363 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: the story really takes off. Okay, hypothetical question, Sorry, not 364 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: just hYP hypothetical question. Uh. If you were a time 365 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: traveler and you came from let's say the era before 366 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 1: right before electric lights were widespread, and you landed here, 367 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: what what is some of the technology that would most 368 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: surprise you, not counting stuff like all the rare spices 369 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: that are now at grocery stores that's just better transit, 370 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: that African smoke spice. Have you ever seen that before? 371 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: At a Trader Joe's. It's like it's like the best. 372 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: It's like hot peppers. You put it on a roast. No, 373 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: it's like it's it's spice. So it's just like um, 374 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: crushed pepper, right, crushed crushed pepper and it's smoked and 375 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: all goes on everything I eat, know, mommy, it is. 376 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: That's good. I like that. But okay, so what about 377 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: the technology then? What what technology would amaze you? I 378 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: still think instant conversation. Instant conversations and atomic bombs. Those 379 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: are like two of I like instant across the world conversations, 380 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: the fact that you can send people to space and 381 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: then talk with them with video too, so you can 382 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: prove like you've got a visual representation to prove that 383 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: that person is wherever they say they are when they're 384 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 1: talking to you. Right, yeah, yeah, this is We're in 385 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: what a time to be alive, territory, and you are 386 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: too as you listen to this. But folks turned the 387 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: idea of technology to the gun death problem in the US. 388 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: And they say, and again, a lot of these are 389 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: folks on both sides of whatever political divide. You want 390 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: to pick. But the thing that gets me is that 391 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: the two big kind of disagreements with the role of 392 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: technology here are. First, there's the idea that firearms should 393 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: be more, much more heavily regulated and tracked much more comprehensively. 394 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: It regardless of how you feel about gun ownership, which 395 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: is a very sensitive topic for a lot of people 396 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: in this country, regardless how you feel about it, it's 397 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: undeniable that outfits like the n r A have purposely 398 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: worked behind the scenes to stymy federal level like gun tracing. 399 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: You know, they're they're against it, uh, And you can 400 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: hear any number of arguments why that might be. But 401 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: this none n r A episode, it's just it's a 402 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: reality that those groups are trying to stop trying. But why, 403 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: I mean, we hear so much about black market guns 404 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: and filing off of serial numbers and all of this 405 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, like why not if you if you 406 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: don't have anything to hide, why would you be against that? 407 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: Is it because of fear of fall accusations or is 408 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: it literally just like a paranoid doomsday prepper kind of mentality. 409 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: You know, it could come from a bunch of different 410 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: different viewpoints, but one of the One of the arguments 411 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: is what would happen if there were, say a sudden 412 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: revolution or god forbid of coup in the United States 413 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: and now there was a new uh dictator or dictorial 414 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: regime that wants to you know, um d arm the populace. 415 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: I would catch that with the doomsday prepper mentality. Yeah, 416 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 1: I agree a little bit. Well, I just want to 417 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: introduce something here in this moment the conversation. Do you 418 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: guys know about N I B N of course and 419 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: I B I N Sorry guys, the nationals it's still 420 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: pronounced nibbin. Okay, Yeah, you're right. But it's a it's 421 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: an a t F thing. It's the National Integrated Ballistics 422 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: something network Information and Database. It's a database of different 423 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: like uh uh weapons you know, rifling barrels and things 424 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: like that, and also obviously immunition, you know, things that 425 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: can leave traces and allow you to you know, follow 426 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: the clues, right like do your detective work. It's just 427 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: one of those things that is across the board, right 428 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: for all states within the US that it's something you 429 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: can be used for that kind of tracing that you're 430 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: talking about, right, you're right, Almost like a Encyclopedia Ballistic Evidence, 431 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: So you could say, like, this is the kind of 432 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: case seeing the kind of firing pattern you can expect 433 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: from insert firearm here, which again that's a good thing 434 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: to know if you're trying to solve a crime. But 435 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: others see this idea of more comprehensive tracking as another 436 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: stumbling step down the slippery slope of the surveillance state. 437 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: Too many s is, but we got through it. This 438 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: for many people paints a pick ri An Orwellian society, 439 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: one in which freedom and privacy are incredibly endangered. But 440 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: amid all these controversies, amid all these tragic deaths and 441 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: all these different ideas about how to prevent them in 442 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: the future, we see the technology and the company shot 443 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: spot or Emerge shot Spotter is not a new kid 444 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: on the block, but it's not super old either. Is 445 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: founded in nine private company Uncle Sam doesn't own it. 446 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: It's based in California, and it's primary customers are law 447 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies or cities like Chicago or St. Louis and 448 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: all across the United States. This thing, this company, has 449 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: deployed proprietary gunfire locating services, and we talked a little 450 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: bit about the your rays that they use. I don't 451 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: think we got to the exact type of microphone use, 452 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: but they're pretty innocuous if you don't know what you're 453 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: looking for, twenty five microphones per square mile. They're on 454 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: telephone polls. You'll see them in like traffic lights, at corners, 455 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and they don't have cameras. All they 456 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: do is listen to city noise and wait for what 457 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: are called impulsive sounds, and then you know, so you'll 458 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: hear all pop pop pop pop pop, right, and then 459 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: they'll have an algorithm and a human agent. We'll get 460 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: into the nuts and bolts of this. I have an 461 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: algorithm and a human agent determined whether this was a 462 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: gun shot. And if this is a gun shot and 463 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: this is subscription fee is still being paid, which is 464 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: very important. Then shot Spotter will disperse this information to 465 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: police first responders on the scene. And the idea is 466 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: that when this technology works, it can speed up response 467 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: time immensely and therefore it can save live But critics 468 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: claim it's a lot more to the story, and here's 469 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. So, well, you guys want to 470 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: talk about shot Spotter met this. I think we originally 471 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: started talking about this on air due to a news 472 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: story or a listener mail. It was a listener mail both. Yeah, 473 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: but that was became something well. But then, like you know, 474 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: it just kept being in the news and it just 475 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: kept being a topic of conversation that came up. And 476 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: he was Barry originally who sent us a voicemail talking 477 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: about it. And then we got all the info from 478 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: all the other listeners you mentioned at the top of 479 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: this episode, and we had a really great response from 480 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: someone in law enforcement with one perspective and someone who 481 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: is staunchly anti this technology. So that was interesting to 482 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: hear the two sides, which will definitely get into Yeah, yep, yep, yep. 483 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: Uh Shan Spotter was founded quite quite a while ago 484 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: by this gentleman named Robert Schoen s h O W 485 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: E N. And it has been well, at least on paper, 486 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: it has been extremely successful. We have heard personally and 487 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: we have seen online varying accounts about how successful the 488 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: system and company is. Yeah. I mean if you rate 489 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: success in terms of growth numbers, then they're going gangbusters. Yeah. 490 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: As of twenty one, this stuff, fancy name would be 491 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: Acoustic Locator Technology. It is in more than a hundred cities. 492 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: It's in a hundred and twenty five cities. It's on 493 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: fourteen campuses. If you're totaled up all of the total 494 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: all the coverage area, but all one place, you would 495 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: see that shot spotter covers about nine hundred and eleven 496 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: square miles, which doesn't doesn't seem like a time maybe. 497 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: Oh no, we talked about in that previous episode. It 498 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: costs ten thousand dollars per square miles to cover. And 499 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: and and one thing we're gonna get into I know 500 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: as well is the technology. The actual technology behind it 501 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: isn't very transparent. Like when when when we talk about 502 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: these microphone arrays like as a technology, music technology and 503 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: recording nerd. My immediate questions, what kind of mics are 504 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: they using? Are they using parabolic mics? You know, ribbon mics? 505 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: I would I would assume something that had that can 506 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: be focused, you know, and pointed and pick up you know, 507 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: from a decent distance away, perhaps with the aid of 508 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: some sort of parabolic cone around it that like sort 509 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: of amplifies that. But you can't find that information and 510 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: I can tell you why. It's proprietary. It could well 511 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: be some hybrid mike that they invented just for this 512 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: purpose that they don't want us to know about because 513 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: we might copy it and then someone might take that 514 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: and make a better version or something like that. You know, 515 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: you don't think they're omnis. They probably are. I don't 516 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,959 Speaker 1: know if they're an array though, then I would assume 517 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: they're in a three hundred and sixty degree kind of shape, 518 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: So you wouldn't want them to be omni. You wouldn't 519 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: want them to be picking up on the back. Each 520 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: one would be focused, so it would be like, you know, 521 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: everything is like picking up been in a perimeter, that's 522 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: a circle, and then you've got coverage you know, in 523 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: three degrees, and that would make the most sense for 524 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: an array, which is how they're describing it. But you know, 525 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: a single omni records on the front and the back 526 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: of the microphone, so that might be too much detail 527 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: on one mic. And also an omni would come in 528 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: on one audio channel, whereas multiple single directional mikes would 529 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: have their own channel, which could then be you know, 530 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: analyzed separately. Nerd Well, this is important because we go 531 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: it is to a degree proprietary. Think when we say microphone, 532 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: what we should say is that shot spotter prefers to 533 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: call them sensors because there are a combo deal. So 534 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: there's a microphone, but then also there's a GPS to 535 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: clock some data and uh too, then they've got memory 536 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: and processing abilities, and then they have a cell capability 537 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: to transmit that information. So I'm I am not sure 538 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: what it looks like on the inside, but I'm convinced 539 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: it's not, you know, just a microphone with some junk 540 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: duct tape to it, you know what I mean. I 541 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: don't think it looks like an I E. D or 542 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: something but improvised explosive device. But certainly a prototype might 543 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: have looked like that. Probably did. Yeah, prototypes usually look 544 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: pretty sketchy and might have like worked this out in 545 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: his garage before you went wide with it. Who knows. 546 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: And one of our listeners that we we mentioned earlier, 547 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 1: n Y s l e O wrote this great piece 548 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: that you definitely should listen to, even if you know 549 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: you fundamentally disagree. Check out our listener mail with with 550 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: a letter from him and someone who has a different perspective. Uh. 551 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: What was valuable to us about this correspondence is that 552 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 1: m Y s l e O breaks down the nuts 553 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: and bolts of the technology from their firsthand experience as 554 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: a law enforcement for certain a community that uses this, 555 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: I think we all found it to be reliable and 556 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: reasonable because l e O here is really clear when 557 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: they say, okay, after this part, I don't know, something 558 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: could be up, something could be happening on that side. 559 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: But here's my experience, and here's why I can tell 560 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: you from a factual basis. Other folks replied with what 561 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: happens when bad faith actors get involved in this process 562 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: or when allegations of corruption and cover up take place? 563 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: Before we get to that, let's we gotta walk through 564 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: kind of the process of how this works. See the 565 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: chain of evidence this kind of creates, and maybe this 566 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: will help us see the gaps where corruption or good 567 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: old human error could could change the story. So the 568 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: sensors send these they hear something, right, is this a 569 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: dump truck? Is this a helicopter? Is this? Is this 570 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: a gun? Is this an active firefight? Well, the sensors 571 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: will pick this up. They send these audio files to 572 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: the human analysts. When the sensors say, okay, this is 573 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,479 Speaker 1: close enough to be a gunshot. These sensors also they'll 574 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: be as low as twenty from the ground, but the 575 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: company likes them higher because that eliminates ambient noise. We 576 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: do not know at this point if anybody has ever 577 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: like farted hard or loud enough to fool the sensors, 578 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: but if you could hear a single fart in like 579 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: a single square mile, because we remember, shot swater is 580 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: twenty plus microphones in a single square mile, and in 581 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: order for the system of function, more than three or 582 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: more of the microphones have to pick it up in 583 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: order to triangulate where the thing is occurring. So if 584 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: somebody tooted loud enough, y'all silly, I don't think they 585 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, No, you're right, you're right. That would 586 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: be medically fascinating. So okay, well they okay, they've detected 587 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,240 Speaker 1: these noises. It goes to a human analyst who listens 588 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: to it. There are also a couple of algorithms that 589 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: come into play. One that does some math that will 590 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: get to the in this This algorithm is UH primarily 591 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: meant to help triangulate and target UH an area where 592 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: the shot occurred within you know, within a few meters. 593 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: It's pretty impressive. The other slightly more complex algorithm is 594 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: the one that gets accused of being kind of a 595 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: black box. That's the one that helps figure out, you know, 596 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 1: differentiated dump truck or you know, uh a pants dump 597 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,919 Speaker 1: from a from a gunshot. Can it differentiate a toot 598 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: from a shart though? Is the question? I don't know. 599 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. There's got to be like a wetness censor. Right, 600 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: do you ever hear when you think that that sounded wet? 601 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: We're gross, mat this is our job we're doing. We're 602 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: treating this seriously, so okay. They so they echo locate 603 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,919 Speaker 1: right similar to the way bats do. Right. They there. 604 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,800 Speaker 1: Their algorithms are triangulating based on timing for when a 605 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: sound reaches a different part of the square mile covered. 606 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: And they also make an effort to figure out how 607 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: many shots are fired and possibly what kind of gun 608 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: could be involved. And it's not necessarily, you know, hyper 609 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: specific with the type of gun all the time. It's 610 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: more like, I think, more like is this a fully 611 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: automatic weapon? Is this a pistol? For first responders, this 612 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,960 Speaker 1: lets them know what to expect. It gives them visibility 613 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: that would not have been otherwise detected. And those algorithms, 614 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: those are the secret sauce for this. It's not just 615 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,760 Speaker 1: one really busy guy per city constantly going oh never mind, 616 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 1: oh never. But at some point there has to be 617 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,399 Speaker 1: human intervention. And is that My question is, is that 618 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: the dispatcher who is maybe less trained with the technology, 619 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: or is there somebody that works for the company that 620 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: is like really trained on their proprietary equipment that can 621 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: then decide whether or not that it's sort of like 622 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,440 Speaker 1: life alert, where you have a human that gets to assess, 623 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a real threat or not. According 624 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: to shot Spatter, it is specialists who are trained to 625 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: analyze the audio who go back and check it again. 626 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: They're like a shot spotter side yeah. And part of 627 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: that is wrapped up in the subscription fee. The idea 628 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,799 Speaker 1: is it's seven monitoring. It was what you're what you're 629 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: paying for a year per spare mile after you get 630 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: it set up, and if that's the full number, and 631 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,799 Speaker 1: it's not quite, we'll see why. Probably probably impart too, 632 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: because I know we're already we're already getting a little 633 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: like here, but we've got to introduce some issues. Let's 634 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: just do Let's do the first issue before you get 635 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: to the really crazy stuff. In the next episode. So 636 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: the first issue, this one will will spend the rest 637 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: of the time on for part one of this series. 638 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: The first issue might surprise you. We have to acknowledge 639 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: that there, of course, there are a lot of folks 640 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: who have a problem with shot Spotter. They see it 641 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: as this audio I of saw on you know this 642 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: all seen or all hearing, uh entity of what it 643 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: could be called a surveillance state. But a lot of 644 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: people have a problem with this stuff. They're not worried 645 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 1: about the potential dangers of a surveillance state. They're saying, 646 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: we are worried about playing old effectiveness. We don't think 647 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: it really works where they're talking about. Let's take a 648 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsors, dive into some 649 00:40:52,600 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: issues we've returned. Shot Spotter, according to its critics, has 650 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: more issues than a comic book. The studies that we 651 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: want a reference. This is some of the objective thing 652 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,760 Speaker 1: stuff we could point to, right because the studies don't 653 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 1: have necessarily a horse in the race. And when we 654 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: were telling you about this stuff, both in this part 655 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: and in part two, please understand we're comparing the information 656 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: shot Spotter. Spoiler does not agree with any of it, 657 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: to be like absolutely honest with you. One one study 658 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: gets quoted pretty often. It's called Acoustic Gunshot Detection Systems, 659 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: a quasi experimental evaluation in St. Louis, Missouri. Sexy title, right, 660 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: No one's denying that. It's positively joycey and isn't that Yes, No, 661 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: they totally did and they never got in trouble, spread 662 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: what they thought were innoculous things that wouldn't hurt anybody. 663 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: But then it turns out carstgetic a yeah, rb guys 664 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: rb uh So this this study, and Emily Blackburn is 665 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: someone will we'll talk about some more to this study 666 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: claims the system isn't a good fit for all law 667 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: enforcement agencies, especially if they have what's called a pre 668 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: existing high call volume. What that means is it's not 669 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: a good fit for police departments that already have really 670 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: busy days, you know that already have a lot of 671 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 1: folks calling for any number of things robberies, reports of gunshots, etcetera. 672 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: And these academics claim the system doesn't appear to actually 673 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: reduce the rate of serious crimes at all, but it 674 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: does increased demand on police resources. Because if you trust 675 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: this system enough to tell you what if I our 676 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: arm has been discharged, then you're not going to waste time. 677 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: Like n Y S l e O said, time is 678 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: crucial when it comes to gunshot wounds. Right, So this 679 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: study is saying that really this thing sends people out 680 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: when it doesn't need to or increases demands on often 681 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: already cash strapped departments. Well, I mean, I guess that 682 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,919 Speaker 1: depends on how how responsive the public is to call 683 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,440 Speaker 1: nine one one when there is an emergency or you know, 684 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: a shot is fired, right right, Just so, it is 685 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: the issue also that when police are deployed, that becomes 686 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: a statistic as well, and then can lead to perhaps 687 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 1: false data around things being high crime neighborhoods or neighborhoods 688 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: getting maybe unfairly categorized as such. It's a huge it's 689 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: a huge issue because you know, you get into this 690 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,319 Speaker 1: kind of without it all just diminishing it, uh and 691 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: oversimplifying it too much. Sometimes you get in this sort 692 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: of chicken and egg argument. Are police in these neighborhoods 693 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: uh more often because they're bad neighborhoods? Or is the 694 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: increased crime rate due to other things? Right? And is 695 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: increased police presence one of those things, and of course 696 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: you can already tell it's a very hot button issue 697 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: that many many people have no fooling gotten their PhDs in, 698 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,880 Speaker 1: and people are still arguing about it. Right. No one 699 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: is quite sure how to solve that conundrum. But if 700 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: you ever read just one study, you can maybe dismiss it, right, 701 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: you can say, well, this is one thing. Can we 702 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: reproduce this right? Can we objectively figure out whether there's 703 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: a pattern. That's where another study comes out in same year, October. 704 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: This time they went deep in a paper called impact 705 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: of shot Spotter Technology on firearm homicides and arrest among 706 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: large metropolitan Counties Longitudinal analysis. To these studies are clearly 707 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: in a contest to have the longest name. And this 708 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: study looked at seventeen years of shot Spotter use. That's why, 709 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: that's why they use the word longitudinal in there, just 710 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: to say they're studying a long time, a long time 711 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 1: scale of this thing and how it was doing. And man, 712 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,760 Speaker 1: their conclusions aren't great for shot Spotter, No, not at all. 713 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,320 Speaker 1: This is this is not good press for them. What 714 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: we would have to point out is they concluded quote 715 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: and this is them okay, shot Spotter Legal team. This 716 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: is not us implementing shot spotter technology has no significant 717 00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: impact on firearm related homicides or arrest outcomes. Instead, authors 718 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: of this study, and there are five of them, the 719 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,959 Speaker 1: vultron up to right this, they say you should look 720 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 1: to public policy solutions. So you need to do something 721 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,799 Speaker 1: politically and legally, uh, to get more bang for your 722 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: buck or to get less bang for your buck, which 723 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: would be the mission here. Uh yeah, that's right. So 724 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: they're not even saying that this stuff is um ripe 725 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,840 Speaker 1: for turning the US into They're saying it might not 726 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 1: be worth the cash. And this brings us to another issue, 727 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 1: the what this one is for all the fellow chief 728 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: skates in the crowd. Cost? How much does it cost? 729 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,360 Speaker 1: What are we paying for? Especially when so many municipalities 730 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: are cash strapped, do either to mismanagement, um gutting of 731 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:00,279 Speaker 1: budgets or you know, good old fashioned corruption. Right. Shout 732 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: out to everybody who got away with the p P 733 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:07,839 Speaker 1: P loans, you criminals. Uh, and I love that. That's 734 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: to screw it up for everybody else. And actually I 735 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 1: need it. I can't. I see it every time. I 736 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,800 Speaker 1: can't even get away with a late fee of the library, 737 00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,600 Speaker 1: you know. But okay, the cost and we too, we 738 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,280 Speaker 1: wanted to get this from straight from the horse's mouth 739 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: or from the microphones. Plug Shot Spotter is not cheap 740 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: at all, uh, and arguably it shouldn't be. But here's 741 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: how they put it in their fact sheet. So per 742 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: the official fact sheet, like you said, ben quote, the 743 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: service is offered as a cloud based solution with no 744 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 1: expensive premise based equipment or software to be owned or maintained. 745 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:54,040 Speaker 1: The subscription fee is between sixty and D per square 746 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,799 Speaker 1: mile per year, with a three square mile minimum. Okay, Like, 747 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: we unpack this real quick because it says no expensive 748 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: premise based equipment. How is this not? Well, what is 749 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: premise based? To quote? I get it like on the premises, 750 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:13,680 Speaker 1: I get it um. And obviously cloud technology has gone 751 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,000 Speaker 1: a long way to be another audio nerd. For a second, 752 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: there is a company that you can stream uh. They 753 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: have like racks and racks and racks of like the 754 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: most high end uh, like studio equipment you could ever 755 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: imagine the kinds of things you could never possibly own. 756 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: And if you subscribe to this service, I could through 757 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:36,200 Speaker 1: my computer send my signal to their room, get it processed. 758 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: By their rack equipment and then send it back into 759 00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: my computer to record it, which is freaking cool because 760 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,760 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I would never be able to afford 761 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: all that stuff. So the cloud computing and UH technology 762 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: and streaming speed has increased to such a degree that 763 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: something that needs to be real time like that can 764 00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,120 Speaker 1: occur because processing power is so affordable, uh serve or 765 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: space is so affordable and small. So I mean, I 766 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 1: can't argue that the technology sounds neat um when you 767 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,280 Speaker 1: start getting into the subscription fee uh and the square 768 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: mileage rate, that starts to make your brow furrow a 769 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: little bit. So on the low end, let's see, that's 770 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,879 Speaker 1: sixty if you're getting a deal right per square mile, 771 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: and you have to have three square miles, so that 772 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 1: goes really quickly to one thousand per year uh minimum, 773 00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: and that probably, I'm just guessing, you know, that probably 774 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: comes with a multi year agreement like a lease, you 775 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,479 Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's probably and that just makes sense. 776 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: That's not necessarily conspiratorial, because that's how a lot of 777 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,399 Speaker 1: cities contract out businesses. Back to Emily Blackburn. UH. This 778 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: time Blackburn is writing at Police Chief Magazine, which I 779 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 1: did not know as a magazine, but is uh this 780 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: great story? Ben? Uh? These costs per blackburn also don't 781 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: account for increases in call volume that agencies will experience. 782 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,920 Speaker 1: Now you've got to have more people manning the phones, right, uh, 783 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,680 Speaker 1: And it doesn't account for loss of efficiency in that response. 784 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,920 Speaker 1: This article, I know it might not be everybody's like 785 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: sixty bedtime reading, but it is worth the time. It's 786 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: worth reading for civilians and UM law enforcement professionals alike 787 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: because it drills down into the specifics of shot Spotter 788 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:42,839 Speaker 1: in St. Louis from a cost benefit perspective, and they 789 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:49,640 Speaker 1: conclude the city probably spends another nine thousand dollars at 790 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: least or twenty five dollars per square mile extra on 791 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,719 Speaker 1: top of all the all the stuff they're paying shot 792 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,280 Speaker 1: Spotter for. It comes with a lot of incurred costs 793 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: that get pushed onto the department or the agency, and 794 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: from there get pushed onto taxpayers whether or not they 795 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:17,359 Speaker 1: want shot Spotter in their community. Yeah, I concur so, well, 796 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,280 Speaker 1: that's the thing you're paying for it. Okay, it doesn't 797 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,120 Speaker 1: matter if you don't want it in your community. It 798 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you love it. Your community is paying 799 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,160 Speaker 1: for it if it's installed, because those that those funds 800 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: have to come from somewhere. This means that at least 801 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,719 Speaker 1: in the case of Missouri, what they were what was 802 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: supposed to cost sixty K is probably cost you more 803 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:45,320 Speaker 1: like minimum k to a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars 804 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: per square a mile. And spoiler alert, people aren't doing 805 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: this in just one square mile of a city. That's 806 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:59,160 Speaker 1: just not the way it works. And you minimum minimum minimum. 807 00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 1: And then if you look at it, if you look 808 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: at it from this case, you know, we're starting with 809 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: this one because this is an issue with shot Spotter. 810 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: But it's by far the least crazy issue. It's the 811 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:16,200 Speaker 1: least quote unquote juicy issue. It's you know, a problem 812 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,319 Speaker 1: for the bean counters over in accounting, right, but it 813 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: but it is important because you have to remember, regardless 814 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: of your stance on law enforcement in America, you have 815 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,680 Speaker 1: to remember that taxpayers are paying for it, right and 816 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: you have to remember that money is therefore coming from 817 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,799 Speaker 1: your pockets. Uh. This is just the beginning of the 818 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,000 Speaker 1: story about shot Spotter. We're going to follow up with 819 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,080 Speaker 1: more of the juicy stuff we tease in the second 820 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,480 Speaker 1: part of this series. Which I believe will be coming 821 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,600 Speaker 1: out after this weekend, So everybody stay tuned, be safe, 822 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,160 Speaker 1: and in the meantime, we want to know what you 823 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,239 Speaker 1: think about shot Spotter so far. Let us know. We 824 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,319 Speaker 1: try to be easy to find online. Correct. We are 825 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,000 Speaker 1: on Facebook, we are on Twitter, and we're on YouTube 826 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,359 Speaker 1: at the handle Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or Conspiracy Stuff Show. Yes, 827 00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,279 Speaker 1: we have a phone number. It is one H three 828 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. You can call 829 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: us right now, leave a voicemail. You've got three minutes. 830 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: Say whatever you'd like. Please give yourself a cool moniker 831 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,319 Speaker 1: of some sort of secret code name, just like Doc 832 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,960 Speaker 1: Holiday and Mission Control over here. And uh, let us 833 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: know if we can use your voice and message on 834 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: one of our listener mail episodes. And that's really it. 835 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,719 Speaker 1: If you don't like calling and using your voice like that, 836 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,280 Speaker 1: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email. 837 00:53:39,480 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they 838 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 839 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,719 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit 840 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:09,880 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 841 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:10,720 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.