1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump may have won last year's U s presidential election, 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: but how can he and the Republican Party stay in power? Well, 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: one political party across the Atlantic could have the answer 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: to that question. It's using a similar mix of nationalist rhetoric, 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: social conservatism, and populist economic policies. But instead of already 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: being behind the eight ball, kind of like the Republicans 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: here in the United States, they actually seem poised to 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: stay in power for a long time. So where is 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: this party and what's their secret sauce? We're about to 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: find out on today's episode of Benchmark, a podcast about 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: the global economy. I'm Scott landman and economics editor with 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News in Washington, and I'm Daniel most executive that 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: at a Global economics in New York. The countries Poland, 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: the he is called Law and Justice, which swept to 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: an election victory in twenty fifteen and has been winning, 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: so you know how to win ever since. How Joining 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: us are two colleagues with close connections to both Poland 18 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: and the United States who will talk about what Law 19 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: and Justice has done and what Trump can learn from them. 20 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: Votech Mostva is our Warsaw Bureau chief. He was born 21 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: in Poland, grew up in the US and has since 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: returned to his native country. And here in d C 23 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: we have Kasha Klymasinska, an editor on Bloomberg's First Word 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: desk who grew up in Poland and has lived in 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: the US for the last eight years. Thanks for being 26 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: with us today, Voytek and Kasha. Thank you very nice 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: to be here. Hi, great to be with you. Thanks so, Voytech. 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: Can you just sum up what law and justice has 29 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: done with the state media and the court system while 30 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: at the same time providing economic hand doubts lowering the 31 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: retirement age. What's been there? Policy cocktail Law injustice one 32 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: power on a type of election platform that may be 33 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: familiar to US listeners. UM. It preached about the evils 34 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: of what it called a self serving establishment, UM, one 35 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: that didn't care about the struggles of the working classes. UM. 36 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: It's that that the government must regain control over the 37 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: economy so that it served the country and its people 38 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: and not multinational companies or foreign entities. UM. In foreign policy, 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: law Injustice thought to reassert Poland's national interests, which it 40 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: thinks are endangered by the European Unions. And what may 41 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: no longer come as a surprise. Um It has largely 42 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: fulfilled its promises. Over its first year in power. The 43 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: party launched an unprecedented child benefit program, giving families bigger 44 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: welfare handouts relative income levels than in Norway and other 45 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: Scandina even countries. It lowered the retirement age, which was 46 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: raised by the previous government as a way to show 47 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: up the public finances. The state controlled companies bought back 48 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: the country's second largest bank from a foreign investors, and 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: the by laws of a number of companies listed on 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: the worst of Stock exchange were changed, making their top 51 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: priority national interests instead of company interests. Um It has 52 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: also tried to drain the swamp or exchange the elites 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: running the country um the boards of companies where the 54 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: government has a stake where we arranged. Poland also changed 55 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: media rules to make the government directly responsible for public broadcasters, 56 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: and soon after that hundreds of journalists were either kicked 57 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: out or forced to leave public television and radio. Perhaps 58 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: most alarmingly, it has also over called the Constitutional Tribunal 59 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: no less than six times in the past year in 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: an effort to gain control over the court, which is 61 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: important because it can structs own laws, it sees us unconstitutional. 62 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: So voech do you sound like the kinds of things 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: that you know you could envision Trump and the Republicans 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: wanting to do, or some of them at least in 65 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: terms of the nationalist stance. Uh. But when it comes 66 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: to the economic policies, is law in justice doing something like, 67 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, we give you the people some money, some 68 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: economic hand doubts, and you let us do what we 69 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: want with the government. That's certainly the assumption. Um. The 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: hand that's clearly helped law injustice stay popular, especially among 71 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: those who live in smaller cities and rural areas where 72 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: wages are lower, and law Injustice has no difficulty saying 73 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: that it's political opponents really want to get rid of 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: the family handouts. Let's take a step back, votech and Kasha. 75 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: Most of our listeners are probably thinking, well, hang on 76 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: a second, this democracy thing, it's pretty recent in Poland, 77 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: and you know, it's less than three decades since the 78 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: transition to democracy. Put the success of this party in 79 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: the context of a very young democracy. Um. I think 80 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: it's a good question. Then it's an interesting way to 81 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: look at it. But um, you know, you also have 82 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: to remember that after Poland regained this democracy, it also 83 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: fairly quickly joined the europe the European Union. So Polish 84 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: people are sort of used to government telling them how 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: things should be done, because, you know, once the negotiation 86 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: process with that you started, you started imposing all those 87 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: rules and directives. So Polish people are sort of used to, 88 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, the government either in Warsaw or somewhere in Brussels, 89 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: telling them what to do. So people actually see parallels 90 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: between communist rule that happened for decades and the e 91 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: use heavy hand in bureaucracy in recent years. I'm not 92 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: sure they exactly would describe it that way, but I 93 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: think this is something that just has always happened, so they, 94 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: you know, they are not like Americans, who very strongly 95 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: believe that especially the federal government should not get in 96 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: their ways. One of the big differences, of course, is 97 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: that Poland stands benefits a lot from being a European Union. 98 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: More than two billion dollars worth of aid comes in 99 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: from from the European Union budget, which helps Poland build 100 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,239 Speaker 1: roads and infrastructure and catch up with the richer West. 101 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: You know, you're saying that um Poland has benefited from 102 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: EU membership, and that's true, but the US as a 103 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: whole has also benefited from free trading goods, services in capital. 104 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: That hasn't stopped at least a chunk of the electorate 105 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: in pivotal states nominally turning against that. But then I 106 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: think it's a little bit different. I mean, if you 107 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: go to somebody who has lost their job in a 108 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: Detroit factory, for example, you can't tell them, well, but 109 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: you know, generally there's this trade surplus and we benefited 110 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: from those free trade deals. I don't think they would 111 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: understand it or appreciate it. Whereas in Poland there is 112 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people who literally got checks from the 113 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: European Union. There are rows over which their signs saying 114 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: this road has been paid for by the European Union. 115 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: So I think people, you know, really appreciate that. Nevertheless, 116 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: we have seen um big chunk of the electorate not 117 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: being happy with its prospect um. You know, Poland had 118 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: a booming economy in the ninety nineties and last decade, 119 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: and the growth have flowed. It is still the fastest 120 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: growth in the European Union since the Lehman brother crisis 121 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: erupted in two thousand and eight. But that doesn't resonate 122 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: very well with Polly voter with is the same as 123 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: in the Detroit factories. That the fact that the US 124 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: has a trade for surplus. Now, when we talk about 125 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: Polish voters, in some ways, the electorate there could be 126 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: seen as polarized in a similar way to Democrats and 127 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: Republicans here in the US, who are very divided over 128 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's presidency, uh and his election. Kasha, you actually 129 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: have some good perspective on this. You grew up in 130 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: the city of Krakow, which heavily supports the Law and 131 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: Justice Party, and you also look for a number of 132 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: years in Warsaw, where there's kind of a huge opposition. 133 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: Are these divisions really apparent in Polish society the way 134 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: they are in America these days? Yeah? Indeed, indeed they are. Well, 135 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: So if you go to Krakof then I think it's 136 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: a really good lesson and it's a really good experience 137 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: to help understand why law injustice is waning. Most of 138 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: Polish people are Catholic, and especially in Krakoff, where John 139 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Paul the second was studying and where he was later 140 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: a bishop. This thing it is, you know, really strong 141 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: and people. People leave by their Catholic rules. They follow 142 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: what the church is preaching. And these people tend to 143 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: support law and justice because they think, you know, getting 144 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: five hundreds a lot as a child is just the 145 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: right thing for the government to do, because people should 146 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: have as manage children as possible, or at least a 147 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: lot of children. They don't really worry that, oh, this 148 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: will decrease increase the deficit and the dead and maybe 149 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: lead to higher taxes in the future. They just don't 150 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: think in those terms. Whereas in war So, of course, 151 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: there is much more population focused more on economic conditions. 152 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: People obviously moved to wars so to pursue careers, to 153 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: to make more money basically, and so the economic higher 154 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: taxes are high on their radar. And they do understand 155 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: that the subsidies and the handouts that law injustice is 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: now offering, that this will have to somehow be paid for. Nakashi, 157 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: your point about crack of it is an interesting one 158 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: and whole Krugman gets at this a bit occasionally his columns. 159 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 1: When the comparison is drawn between Trump and the populist 160 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: parties of Central and Eastern Europe. The populist parties of 161 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: Central and Eastern Europe, at least as far as the 162 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Polish example is concerned, have actually done some things to 163 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: um aggressively expand the social safety net. That hasn't happened here? 164 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: Is that the is that? Is that a correct way 165 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: of looking at things? Right? Exactly? I mean, I mean, 166 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: I don't think it will ever happen that the President 167 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: Trump or any other president will start offering if I 168 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: founded dollars a child. But you know, let's just talk 169 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: about President Trump's speech from last night, where he actually 170 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: did talk about several proposals that could help people, such as, uh, 171 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: providing paid family leave. Uh. You know, he's trying to 172 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: do things that he says will help the average work 173 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: in person. He's promised not to cut Social Security and Medicare. 174 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: He's he's promised he said that any changes to Obamacare 175 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: should include people with pre existing conditions. These are things 176 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: that you know, a large part of the population could 177 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: potentially get behind. Is that what we really need to 178 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: see these kinds of things if if you know, Trump 179 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: and the Republicans were to continue, were to retain their 180 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: popularity maybe across the nation, that's an interesting question. And indeed, 181 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: a lot of those promises were made yesterday, and you 182 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: have already heard Democrats response that they have to see 183 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: the details. They would of course, of course they would 184 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: buy better healthcare or um, you know, better care for 185 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: working family families. They just have to see the details. 186 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: So we'll see how many of those details will actually 187 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: be presented and when. But I mean, I can't I 188 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: can't see American voting more eagerly for for for people 189 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: who will just make their lives easier in the near term. 190 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: You mentioned that membership of the EU came relatively shortly 191 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: after the transition to democracy, and I guess you could 192 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: say the same about NATO membership. These two things which 193 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: you say people have turned against or become skeptical about, 194 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: they're all bundled up together. I mean, have people stopped 195 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: to think, we'll wait, were we better off? Yeah under 196 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,959 Speaker 1: the Russian Thum? I not not at all. I think 197 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: there is no way back to to what was before 198 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: and the collapse of communism. Um. I think generally Poles 199 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: are still concerned about the Russian influence and in the region, 200 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: especially in if you weaken the EU and NATO, isn't 201 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: that the same thing? That's a That's a very good question, 202 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: and that is something that that this government is trying 203 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: to have both ways. Perhaps it's trying to lash out 204 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: at national interests, but it doesn't want to leave the 205 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: EU because it knows that collective security given by the 206 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: EU and the security given by NATO, which is backed 207 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: up by a strong US military presence in the region, 208 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: UM is it's best chance of not again falling under 209 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: the Kremlin umbrella like it did for fifty years after 210 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: World War Two. So where does this leave both of you? Voitech? 211 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: You run a news bureau for a large international media 212 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: company headquartered in New York. You grew up in Pennsylvania, Kasha, 213 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: You've been in the United States for the better part 214 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: of a decade. You're married to an American. I'm guessing 215 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: that your kids are American. So are YouTube basically strangers 216 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: in your own land or your own culture. Now. I 217 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: think people are asking themselves a lot of questions about 218 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: what is Poland right now? Is it still the same 219 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: country where left while its in um lead to democracy 220 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: in nine or is it something different, a country that 221 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: seeks to find its own way within the European Union, 222 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: perhaps on the outskirts of it. And perhaps being a 223 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: bit more combative towards foreign investors. I just I think, 224 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: I just want to say that that I think we 225 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: fit right in. As you probably know very well, there 226 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: are Polish people everywhere. There's so many of them in 227 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: New York that apparently it's very easy to get a 228 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: vous beer. So, you know, Polish people are just curious minds. 229 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: We want, we like to travel, we like to try 230 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: different things. You know, some of us come back, some 231 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: of us, for various reasons, stay stay overseas. But you know, 232 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: we are still Polish people. Okay, so you go home 233 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: and there's not the sneering. Yeah you left, you're part 234 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: of the globalist conspiracy. No. I mean, there's just so 235 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: many people in London and so many in the US. 236 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: It's just what happens to some people. The Polish diaspora 237 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: is very it's very far and wide. Yeah. On the 238 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: other hand, we also have to consider that this type 239 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: of interest that we've seen in Poland over the last 240 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: year and a half, this is an international media interest, 241 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: is quite amazing. It's something that as a journalist for 242 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: the last twenty years, I've I've never seen such a 243 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: sustained period of time where where, Um, you know, the 244 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: things that are happening in Poland are finding residents in 245 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: in in other countries and are sometimes seen as perhaps 246 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: the precursor of what could happen there in the US, 247 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: or or or in other European countries. So that leads 248 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: me to the last question, which is voytech. Who is 249 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: the Donald Trump of Poland? There is only one Donald Trump. Um. 250 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: Poland doesn't have its own, but it does have a 251 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: very enigmatic leader. Who is His name is Yarosky. He 252 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: is the leader of the ruling party. He is a 253 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: bit of an enigma. He's not in any position of power. 254 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: He's not in the government, he's not the president. He 255 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: has chosen other people for those roles. Um. Yet he 256 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: is the person that controls um, the strategy and the 257 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: path on which this country is is going. So again, 258 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: just to come back to your footprints in both countries, 259 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: I understand you grew up in what's called the Alabama 260 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: pot of Pensylvania. Yes, that's right. I grew up in 261 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: western Pennsylvania, north of Pittsburgh, where there was a lot 262 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: of rough belt industries when I was growing up there 263 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, and as well as a pretty 264 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: healthy pool and die um industry in in in my area, 265 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: which was Meadville, Pennsylvania. And did your parents or grandparents 266 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: or members of your family work in that industry? No, no, no, 267 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: we didn't, But my friends from high school did um 268 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: end up going and working for that industry. And and 269 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: I think perhaps being a bit concerned about some of 270 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: the changes that have happened since I left Pennsylvania and 271 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: of the changes that that globalization is bringing to to 272 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: to all of us, and and and that concern is 273 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: perhaps feeding what, you know, the way that that my 274 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: friends from high school are voting. And do your parents 275 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: still live there? My parents have moved to Florida, warmer weather, 276 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: they've retired. And what do they think of the law 277 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: Injustice party? My parents are it's a sort of a 278 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: reversal for them for what Trump, which they have every 279 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: day of a lot of news and a lot of 280 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 1: attention on what's happening in in in the United States. 281 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,719 Speaker 1: And I think is they're trying to digest all of 282 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: that and and and and and see what is happening 283 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: um there. They they look at Poland and and are 284 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: quite concerned about about what is happening here and and 285 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:03,959 Speaker 1: whether the democratic model that emerged after communism collapsed um 286 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: is going to to stay firm, and it wasn't for 287 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: the globalist, corporatist media, they might not be able to 288 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: stay in touch with what's going on in Poland. That 289 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: is certainly true. All right, Voytech and Kasha, We're definitely 290 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: going to continue to watch what happens in Poland, and 291 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: we'll continue to watch whether Trump and the Republicans try 292 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: to emulate what the Law in Justice Party has done. 293 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Thank you, 294 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Benchmark will be back next week 295 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: and until then, you can find us in a lot 296 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: of places, the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, or Bloomberg app, 297 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: as well as on iTunes, pocket casts, and Stitcher. While 298 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: you're there, take a minute to rate and review the 299 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: show so more listeners can find us and let us 300 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: know what you thought of the show. You can follow 301 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at at Scott Landman, Dan is at 302 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: at moss Underscore Eco, Voytech, do you have a Twitter handle? 303 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: Anything that you wanted to give? Yes at econ first 304 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: and Kasha, you are at Okay Kaska. Benchmark is produced 305 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: by Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg Podcast is Alec McCabe. 306 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, See you next time.