1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Ready or not? Twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: it means the absolute world to have your support. What 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: are you waiting for? Become a premium subscriber today at 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: Breakingpoints dot com. Hi, I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: focused newsletter Big and an anti trust policy analyst. I 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: have a great segment for you today on this Big Breakdown. 12 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: It's about how Wall Street and passwords intersect. Now, passwords 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: are an inescapable part of our lives. I have a 14 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: lot of passwords, and so do you. I actually have 15 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: a list, and I tried to count the number I 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: have and I counted nineteen just for the sites and 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: apps that start with the letter A. Of course I 18 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: can't remember them all because they try to have different 19 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: passwords for different sites. Now, a cottage industry of solutions 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: has common gone in waves, all trying to help us 21 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: safely create, store and use dozens of different passwords while 22 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: only having to remember one to unlock them all. And 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: in the past few years, a handful of startups competed 24 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: to be the leader in cross platform password protection and storage. 25 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: A very popular password management program is called last Pass. 26 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, the software provider that owns last pass 27 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: is called Logmian was purchased, however, by two private equity firms, 28 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Francisco Partners and Evergreen Coast Capital Corporation. Now, two weeks 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: after the purchase, last Past raised prices on those who 30 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: are basically locked into its system. So who are Elliott 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: Management and Francisco Partners. They are what are known as 32 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: private equity firms, which are giant pools of money run 33 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: by financiers who buy stakes in private companies and hopes 34 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: they can sell those stakes for a profit later on. 35 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: That seems fine, it's just investment, but for a variety 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: of legal reasons, the financiers behind private equity by companies 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: without putting themselves at risk. If anything goes wrong, the 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: company might go bankrupt or lose money, but the financiers 39 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: themselves don't. They are protected by corporate law, and that 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: creates an incentive for destructive behavior because financiers can make 41 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: a lot of money if things go well, but can't 42 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: really lose that much if things go badly, they're really 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: losing other people's money, and they're blocked from even losing 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: too much of that. So private equity firms are very 45 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: short term oriented and tend to make their money by 46 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: buying companies then raising prices on customers, cutting workers, or 47 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: undermining the quality of the product. And this might long 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: term hurt the enterprise value of the company, but in 49 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 1: the short term it increases the amount of cash generates 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: and so the amount that they could flip that company for. 51 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: In this case, Elliott Management and Francisco Partners made Last 52 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: Pass unusable unless customers paid, and this was active, making 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: it slightly less annoying to pay than to move all 54 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: your passwords to a different firms products. Okay, so then 55 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: late last year, so that's one thing, right, that's pretty annoying, 56 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: but it kind of happens. Here's the real problem. Late 57 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: last year, information began to trickle out regarding new management 58 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: or lack thereof at Last Pass. Apparently hackers had stolen 59 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: encrypted password vaults from the company, and this hack was 60 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: all over the internet. Here's what one security pundit said 61 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: about the breach, But there were many of them who 62 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: are talking like this. Last Pass has effectively suffered the 63 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: worst breach possible for a password management company like it. 64 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: It could get a little bit worse if they were 65 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: truly negligent, like willfully malicious, but in terms of not 66 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: wanting it to happen, it's pretty much as bad as 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: it can get. Last Pass employees fell victim to a 68 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: phishing attack in which hackers successfully obtained proprietary information. Phishing, 69 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: which is spelled with a pH, is when a hacker 70 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: sends an email or message purporting to be from a 71 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: reputable source in order to induce someone to reveal personal information, 72 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: to click on a link, and then often get access 73 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: to an entire system. So they did this to last 74 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: Pass employees and it worked. Now months later, the hackers 75 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: then used this knowledge to launch an even more sophisticated 76 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: phishing attack, which subsequently laid led to a data breach 77 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: during which they took almost all last Pass user data. 78 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: Though much of it is encrypted, or so it would seem, 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: last Pass Management is under no requirement to tell us 80 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: exactly what happened, and with the data hackers fished from 81 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: last Pass, scammers are going to try and trick users 82 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: into giving them their passwords for years to come. Now, 83 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: last Pass itself recommended some extreme measures, including in some 84 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: cases changing every password you stored in Last Pass. Kind 85 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: of defeats the whole point of having a password manager. Okay, 86 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: so the situation can look like a simple hack, something 87 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: that happens all the time, But let's not lose sight 88 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: of the root cause here, which is not hackers or 89 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 1: port it practices, but a business model focused purely on 90 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: financial extraction. Last Pass is one of dozens of examples 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: since poor quality is common in private equity owned software, 92 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: which means cybersecurity vulnerabilities quickly follow. For instance, the New 93 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 1: York Subway was hacked through commercial software it used called 94 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: Pulse connect Secure. This software was owned by Ivante, a 95 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: software roll up owned by private equity firm Cheerlake Capital 96 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: Group and THA Associates. A few years ago, thousands of 97 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: companies and government agencies were hacked through this software of 98 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: a private equity owned company called Solar Winds, which was 99 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: controlled by the private equity giant Toma Bravo Partners. And 100 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: now there's last pass. Now, every one of these private 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: equity transactions makes the world ever so slightly worse, And 102 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: at this point it's time to recognize that ownership and 103 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: management of software firms by private equity them itself is 104 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: a security risk. We can't eliminate hackers trying to do 105 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: bad things, trying to steal passwords, trying to steal identities 106 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: and money, but we can change the law to stop 107 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: Wall Street from burning down the companies who build products 108 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: designed to protect us. Thanks for watching this big breakdown 109 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: on the Breaking Points channel. If you'd like to know 110 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: more about big business and how our economy really works, 111 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 1: you could sign up below for my market power focused 112 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: newsletter Big in the description, Thanks and have a good one. 113 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: Joining us now on Counterpoints is the Lever News is 114 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: David Sarota. David, welcome, Thanks for joining us, Thank you, 115 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: thanks for having me, and so we wanted to have 116 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: you on to talk about some of the latest reporting 117 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: from Lever, particularly this piece that we can put up 118 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: here now, the lawsuit that could freeze speech against billionaires 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: by Jordan Yule of Lever News. And so this is 120 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: about a kind of a defamation case that has been 121 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: filed against a Beto O'Rourke that could have dramatic implications 122 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: for the role of money and politics going forward. Can 123 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about this lawsuit? Sure. During 124 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 1: the course of Beto o'rocks scubernatorial campaign, he criticized Republican 125 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: Governor Greg Abbott for accepting a one million dollar donation 126 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: from a major oil and gas company CEO pipeline company 127 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: CEO after weeks after the legislature and Abbot signed a 128 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: bill it included basically a loophole in weatherization mandates for 129 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: fossil fuel infrastructure. This was after the storm that shut 130 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: down the Texas power grid. So a bill comes through 131 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the legislature, it includes language to exempt various parts of 132 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: the natural gas infrastructure from its mandates, which would require 133 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: them those companies to make more investments in weatherization. And 134 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: soon after that happened, the CEO of the company made 135 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: a one million dollar donation to Governor Abbot. Beto o'rot 136 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: criticized that, insinuating that it was corrupt, that it was 137 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: essentially a quid pro quo, it was a reward for 138 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: the legislation moving that moved through the Texas legislature. And 139 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: now the CEO is suing veto O'Rourke saying this is 140 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: a defamatory saying that criticizing and insinuating that the donation 141 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: is corrupt is essentially libelists. And what's important here to 142 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: understand is that this case revolves in part around whether 143 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: the legal system sees the CEO of this company, Energy Transfer, 144 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: and the CEO's name is Kelsey Warren, whether the legal 145 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: system sees people like him as public or private citizens. 146 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: Basically a private citizen, it's easier for that person to 147 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: prove libel a public citizen, the threshold is much much lower. 148 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: The idea being that if you're in the public arena, 149 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: the back and forth over your political activity, it has 150 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: much more flexibility. There's much more allowed for a much 151 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: more wide ranging debate. This is a huge free speech 152 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: case because ultimately, if the courts rule for the plaintiff 153 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: and say that effectively criticizing money in politics as corrupt 154 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: money goes in legislation comes out, you could face a 155 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: political candidates across the country could face financial ruin and 156 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: financial punishment for saying that in the context of an election. Yeah, 157 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: I was just going to ask David, what's on the 158 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: line here. If we extend this to potential hypotheticals and 159 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: other campaigns in the future, depending on how this case 160 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: is ruled, what might that look like going forward? This example, 161 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: we have a gas executive, but what would that look 162 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: like in another case, or how might that come up 163 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: in campaigns if the decision goes in a bad direction. Sure, Look, 164 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean I think you know you look across the 165 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: country and there's big debates about where pipelines can be built, 166 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: whether fracking and drilling happen. Lots of money goes into 167 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: the political system from the fossil fuel industry, and what 168 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: this could do is say to political candidates campaigning in 169 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: the context of that that if you criticize big donors 170 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: from the fossil fuel industry or really any industry, and 171 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: you suggest that the money that's going into the political 172 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: system is buying something, is going into that system to 173 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: influence anybody, that you could face a situation where you 174 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: are not only sued. Look, anybody can sue anybody in America, 175 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: but you're not only sued by the donor, but that 176 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: the courts have created a precedent making it easier for 177 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: the courts to side with the plaintiff and punish you 178 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: as a candidate. So essentially it's a message to candidates 179 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: that talk about money in politics at your peril. And 180 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: the term gaslighting is overused in our discourse, but I 181 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: actually think it really does apply here in this way, 182 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: in that you're being asked to look at something and 183 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: see it for what it obviously is, but then being 184 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: told that you can't describe what it's so very obviously is. 185 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: And so forget politicians, what about the public here? And 186 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: what about the press? I would think half of my 187 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: reporting over my career would constitute defamation if this actually 188 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: goes through. Well that's for other reasons, yes, for other reasons. 189 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: The other half would be defamation for different reasons. But yours, 190 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: probably one hundred percent of the reporting you've done throughout 191 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: your career is connecting the dots between money going in 192 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: and legislation coming out. So what does this do to 193 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: shows like this or journalism like the kind that you 194 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: do over at the lever It's a great question. I mean, yes, 195 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: the media writ large, no matter what side you're on, 196 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: should be concerned about this, about the precedent that it 197 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: could set if we say the legal system says that 198 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: the CEO, a billionaire CEO of one of the largest 199 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: pipeline comes companies in the country making million dollar donations. 200 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: If the legal system says that person, for the purposes 201 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: of the law, is a private citizen, not a public figure, 202 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: that creates a precedent saying that you're right, not only 203 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: political candidates, but news organizations, advocacy groups and the like 204 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: on all sides of any issue can face punishment for 205 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: connecting the dots. It really is a way to freeze 206 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: free speech against the powerful. And here's the thing. This 207 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: case is in a court in Austin where, if not 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: all the justices are elected, they were Democrats. It's an 209 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: elected court, but it moves to the Texas Supreme Court 210 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 1: that is chock full of Republicans. So the case can 211 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: be appealed by the plaintiff to a much more Republican 212 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: dominated Supreme court, a Texas Supreme Court, and if he wants, 213 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: it can be appealed to the US Supreme Court. To me, 214 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: this is the biggest free speech case, or at least 215 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: one of the biggest free speech cases in the country 216 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: in the society right now, and there's been a lot 217 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: of talk about free speech with Elon Musk's social media. 218 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: This is a direct assault on free speech, on the 219 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: ability and I want to be clear, I know there 220 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,719 Speaker 1: are some conservatives say, oh, you know, I'm excited that 221 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: Beto o'rouric is, you know, potentially in legal trouble here. 222 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: That's the wrong way in my view to look at this. 223 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: This is not only about Beto O'Rourke. This is about 224 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: the entire discourse that how are conservatives going to feel 225 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: the next time they criticize a democratic billionaire and a 226 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: democratic billionaire can use this precedent if it's set to 227 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: go after them, that it is a way to chill 228 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: speech against or criticizing billionaires wealthy corporations that have unlimited 229 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: legal resources to file these kinds of cases. I'm just 230 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: going to ask that as well. Next with this question 231 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: of as conservatives have tried to sort of squeeze all 232 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,599 Speaker 1: the juice out of the populist moment and rhetoric and 233 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: level all kinds of potentially defamatory accusations against you know, 234 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg. If this case were to go in a 235 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: certain direction, it absolutely would affect their ability to make 236 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: those arguments. Have you seen any pickup from anyone on 237 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: the right that's concerned about the implications of this case. 238 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: I haven't. And I think part of it, though, is 239 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: that there's not a lot of awareness of this case, 240 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: and I think maybe there's a presumption that the courts 241 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: will throw it out. I don't presume that, knowing that 242 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: while it is in a democratic dominated court right now, 243 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: a lower court, it can move up to a republican court. 244 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: And the question with our courts now, are they going 245 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: to behave in a partisan way? I mean, on its face, look, 246 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: let's be honest. On its face, the idea that the 247 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: CEO of one of the largest pipeline companies in the country, 248 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: who's made a million dollar donation into the political system, 249 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: the idea that that person is just a private citizen 250 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,119 Speaker 1: is just preposterous and absurd. But this is a politically 251 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: active company, a politically active billionaire. I think this is 252 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: not in my view, I'm speculating here. This is not 253 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: just about, as the plaintiff said, it's you know, he 254 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: experienced mental anguish when O'Rourke was criticizing him, and I 255 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: think it's less about you know, his individual feelings and 256 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,359 Speaker 1: more about an effort to try to set a precedent 257 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: about what can be said and what can't be said 258 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: about the rich and powerful he can afford the therapy. Yes, 259 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: and they also they bring up mean tweets in reply, 260 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: like you said, when you look at little the lever 261 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: quotes the attorney, his attorney saying, when you look at 262 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: the comments that his followers put in on his tweets, 263 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: they believe a Rourke. They believe that mister Warren is 264 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: a criminal that has engaged in profit over lives of Texans. 265 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: So literally citing you know, mean mentions replies saying that 266 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: this has done kind of you know, created mental anguish. Yeah, 267 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: and it's no fun to get ratioed, right, sure, but 268 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: you're sure. I mean I kind of enjoy it sometimes 269 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: actually shutting down free speech because you don't like getting 270 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: radio insane, insan, completely insane. And also for any conservatives 271 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: who are happy that O'Rourke might be out a million dollars, 272 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: really bad news for them. Guy is super rich. He 273 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: married into a very wealthy family. So nobody. Again, That's 274 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: why I go back to that's why I think this 275 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: is not necessarily only about this case. I think it's 276 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: about trying to create a larger legal precedent. Yeah, and 277 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: billionaires fund these attacks on other billionaires, so I'm curious 278 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: to see how those are discourse around around this. Sometimes 279 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: they fund these attacks. Last question, did your reporting turn 280 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: up any indication that this is one of those politically 281 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: strategic lawsuits that's funded by kind of an organization that 282 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: is trying to create legal crimps on political speech for 283 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: the benefit of billionaires or is this just a mentally 284 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: anguished billionaire who just wants to lash out at bet Well. 285 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: I'll say this, we haven't discovered that yet, but there 286 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: are definitely motives that this particular billionaire has that we're 287 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: going to be reporting in a couple of other stories, 288 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: in other words, engagements and entanglements that he's been in before. 289 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 1: So it's not just he randomly kind of popped up 290 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: and did this. So stay tuned for our reporting on that, 291 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: which Well I'm sure wind you in court next right 292 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: after bet orourk David, thanks so much for joining us, 293 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: great reporting, Thank you, thanks to both of you. All right. 294 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: A Maximilian Alvarez, I'm the editor in chief of the 295 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: Real News Network and host of the podcast Working People 296 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: and This is the Art of Class War. On breaking points. 297 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: France was rocked this past week when well over a 298 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: million working people across the country took to the streets 299 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: to protest President Emmanuel Macron's proposed changes to the country's 300 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: beloved pension system. Macrome, who was in his second and 301 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: final term, is pushing to raise the official retirement age 302 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: from sixty two to sixty four years, and this is 303 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: not the first time that Macron has pushed for such reforms. 304 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: In true diehard neoliberal fashion, Macron managed to piss off 305 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: practically the entire country three years ago by attempting to 306 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: force through drastic changes to the French pension system, prompting 307 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: a general strike that brought everyone from railroad workers to 308 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: teachers to even museum workers and ballet dancers to the 309 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: streets in one of the largest mass demonstrations that the 310 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: country has seen in a generation. Now. That was right 311 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: before COVID nineteen turned our world upside down, and I 312 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: actually published a special episode of my podcast Working People 313 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty, in which I interviewed eight 314 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: French workers who were on strike at the time about 315 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: why they were hitting the streets and why they were 316 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: fighting so hard to maintain the existing pension system. One 317 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: of those workers was Mattheu Boulredat, a train operator and 318 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: general secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union 319 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: or the General Confederation of Labor in France. In this 320 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: Breaking Points exclusive segment, I'm honored to be joined by 321 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 1: Mattheu once again, who is calling in from France as 322 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: we speak now. Due to the time sensitivity of this 323 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: interview and the time difference between the East Coast of 324 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: the United States and France, I could not make it 325 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: down to DC to the Breaking Points studio to record 326 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: this interview, so we're recording it today on Sunday, January 327 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: twenty second from the Real News Network studio here in Baltimore. Matthew, 328 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on Breaking Points. Brother, 329 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: it's great to see you again. Thank you, Thank you 330 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: very much. Max, thank you very much to call me again. Well, 331 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: I know you got a lot going on and I 332 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: really appreciate you calling in. It's been a busy week. 333 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: And before we get to the strike this past week, 334 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to actually take us back to that moment 335 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: before COVID nineteen in December of twenty nineteen, in January 336 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, when you and your fellow workers hit 337 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: the streets once again in opposition to Macron's proposed changes 338 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: to the pension system. Now, I imagine a lot of 339 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: folks who are watching this may not remember that too well, 340 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: or maybe don't know about it at all. So can 341 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: you just give our viewers and listeners a little background 342 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: on what those the size of the strikes three years ago, 343 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: and what they were really about. Yes, of course, first 344 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: of all, I own you an apology. Excuse me for 345 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: my bad English. Of course, because I'm French, so I'm lazy, 346 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: and especially about my bad accent. My accent, but I 347 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: think my English is better than your French, so you 348 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: have to figure out that. So, yes, thank you for 349 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: this question about twenty twenty, because it's very important. It's 350 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: the roots of this situation. Now, the president Macron was 351 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: very confident. Okay. So you try to break our pension 352 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: system in twenty nineteen December, okay, just like I think 353 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: three weeks before Christmas, okay, and so we start and 354 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: unlimited strike for our stronger sector, unionist sector. Those so, 355 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: for example, the transport workers you mentioned the opera, It 356 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: was very important of course there are not plenty, but 357 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: it's very symbolic. Okay, the postman's, the fireman's, including the 358 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: camera from refinery or from electric power. And so we 359 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: start this unlimited strike the December fifth, and there also 360 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: a sector less strong. Okay, they joined us every Tuesday 361 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: for a general strike and massive demonstration in Paris. So 362 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: it was a huge moment because it was like, for example, 363 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: for me, I do literally fifty three days of strike, 364 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, so with two pay, because we have pay 365 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: by months, not by weeks, two pays with zero a 366 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: row literally, so it was a huge adventure, you know, 367 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: a huge fight, and finally we won. We won against him. 368 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: He take back his bill, and it put it in 369 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: his natural place, in natural space, the basket, the trush garbage. 370 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: So it's and for example, the people from collecting garbage 371 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: in Paris, in Marseille, the second city of France, was 372 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: in stride and stride during three or four weeks. So 373 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: can you imagine the bourgeois. He finally smells the real 374 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: life on Paris because they have mountained the hill of 375 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: garbage in all the street in Paris. The tourist was gone, 376 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: the Palace of Versailles was closed, the Effel Tower was closed, 377 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: the underground was tough, et cetera. Because we fighted to 378 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: defend the legacy of our grandfather who fights against the 379 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: Nazi fascist occupation. And after the war they build our 380 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: social security system. Okay. I know in the USA a 381 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: lot of politicians called a socialist, and one of the 382 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: target one of the things they hate is our social 383 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 1: security system because is the efficientists in the world, and 384 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: it's the system we guarantee the less number of pension 385 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: they are poor in all over the world, less than 386 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: in USA, of course, but less than in Germany, in England, 387 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: in Italy, etcetera, etcetera, because we have a very generous system. 388 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: For example, the common law is the pension in the 389 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: common law is sixty two for everybody, okay, and the 390 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: for the highway, for example, our system it's fifty seven. 391 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: But for the drivers as me, our system is the 392 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: punsion in fifty two years old. So basically, in eight 393 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: years I will do punsion man, and I can and 394 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: I can do a good travel to meet you in 395 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: Baltimore and visit your great country. So that that that's 396 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: that's that's a great legacy, you understand, Okay, I insist 397 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: because I know in USA it's definitely not the same system. Okay, 398 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: So that's a big legacy and we want to keep it. 399 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: And after there is this crazy COVID pandemic situation in 400 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: all over the world. So Macrow's stop his attacks. And 401 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: now he was really acted and it guess what he 402 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: did it again, you try again to attack our pension system. 403 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: So the new bill plan in next July two more 404 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: years for everybody. So for me it will be not 405 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: fifty two, it will be fifty four. For the common 406 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: people it will be not sixty two, it will be 407 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: sixty four, okay, and the other things. Because there is 408 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: a troll in the bill. It's you have to work 409 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: until sixty two, but in sixty two you have not 410 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: the full pension. You can you can go become pension air, 411 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: but very poor, and if you want the full pension, 412 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: you have to continue until sixty seven. So basically the 413 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: choice to the working class it's you have to choice 414 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: to be a poor punsionaire in sixty two or a 415 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: grandpa an old man at work in sixty seven. Not 416 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: the choice for us. That's the statistics. The studies from 417 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the University from the public organism, from the government, the 418 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: claims that's sixty four. It's the point where the majority 419 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: of the manual workers, of the poor people, of the 420 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: people with casual job dying or start to dye in 421 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: So it's there this pension bill, it's really it's a 422 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: retreatment for the dead people. That's very important because if 423 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: you are if you work outside on the cold weather 424 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: or the hot weather, if you walk during the night, 425 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: very early in the morning, if you if you work 426 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: with asbestos or with many a tiica laser, et cetera, 427 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 1: et cetera, all this difficult condition of work for the 428 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: majority of the poor people of the working class. Okay, 429 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: you lose between seven and twelve years of life. That's 430 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: the point. So it's why it's important to have a system. 431 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: We guarantee for our for we the working class, an 432 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: early retreatment because we will dying soon. That's a problem. 433 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: So we fight for this principle. We fight for our 434 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: our by respect to our grandfather who fought for this 435 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: system against Nazi fascists. We fight for us, and we 436 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 1: fight for the next generation. Even for the working class 437 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: they are not born now. We fight for them. We 438 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: fight for principle. That's very important. So three days ago 439 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: we was on general strike. There is seventy percent of 440 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: the schools was closed in the entire country. The train, 441 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: the buses, the metro, the airport was paralyzed, the factory 442 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: was closed, the refinery was the pipes was turned off, 443 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And we was about two million 444 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: people in the street in the entire country, including half 445 00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: million people in Paris. And we claim not one years more, 446 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: not one euro less. That was our claims. And because 447 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: the government doesn't want to negotiate with us, we decide 448 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: a new day of general strike for January twenty one, 449 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: no thirty one, sorry, thirty one, so in two weeks, 450 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: ten days basically, and if they still not want to negotiate, 451 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: we will start in the beginning of February. Then limited 452 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: strike like in twenty nineteen. I'm sorry, maybe I was 453 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: long and confused. No, no, that was That was great, brother. 454 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: I mean again, it's really important for folks watching and 455 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: listening to this to have that context. And I wanted 456 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: to kind of ask you if we could, if we 457 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: could talk a little bit more before I let you 458 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: go at that principle at the heart of everything, because 459 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: I know there are gonna be a lot of folks 460 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: here in the United States who are thinking, well, I 461 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: don't have a pension system that allows me to retire 462 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: at age sixty two, so why should the French have one? Right? 463 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: And the French, you and your and your fellow workers 464 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: are looking at our system where people like my parents 465 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: will never be able to retire where they work until 466 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 1: they die, often in debt, the the the even the 467 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: notion of retirement is becoming a thing of the past, 468 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: as you know, and you guys are saying, we don't 469 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: want what you and the United States have, right. We 470 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: want the system that we fought for after World War 471 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: Two because we believe there is more to life than work. 472 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: Could you could you? Could you, like I guess, if 473 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: you could talk directly to people in the United States 474 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: and beyond about why that is such a sacred principle 475 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: that it would bring millions of people to the streets. Yeah, 476 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's a it's tricky, uh. The history as 477 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: many tricks. The working class of the United States, the 478 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: United States, Sorry, was the lighthouse of our fight in France. 479 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: Our may day It's coming from your your your martyrdom 480 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: in Chicago. Okay, we we we we follows you followed, 481 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: followed you. You give them the start of the struggle 482 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: in all over the world. The beautiful strike in Chicago, 483 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: the beautiful strike in for example, in Patterson, New Jersey. Uh, 484 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: A lot of a fight in a Mussachusetts, et cetera. 485 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: And I know I know this stroke from the Republican Party. 486 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: They called the Massachusetts taxas set. And it's very important 487 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: to fight as working class because and I know it's difficult, 488 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: but I think you are you are, you have the 489 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: age to listen to that, you're you're a growing up guy. 490 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: Santa Claus doesn't exist. I know, I know it's difficult 491 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: to to hear, but Santa Claus doesn't exist. We we 492 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: don't have collective agreements. We don't have good wages, we 493 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: don't have pension systems. We don't have free school and 494 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: education for all people. Because a sovereign, a president, a 495 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: good prims minister, a good Congress give it to you 496 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: to us. We have that because our grandfather or father 497 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: fight for this. That's very important, and they fight for this, 498 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: and the majority of them they don't. They could not 499 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: profit of the benefits of that. They fight for that, 500 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: for the future, for the children. And we have this 501 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: legacy in our hands. So who the fuck are we 502 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: if we don't fight to keep it and to give 503 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: this legacy to our children. You know that that's the 504 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: point today. You know, for example, in twenty nineteen, just 505 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: an example about this principle. In twenty nineteen, uh, they 506 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: ask to us an agreement. Okay, we passed the bill, 507 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: but not for you, for the workers in two years, 508 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 1: so you can keep it. And they call that the 509 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: grandfather close, you know, the grandfather agreement. But if we 510 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: accept that, if we have accept that, which grandfather, we 511 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: are not a very good, not a very cool grandfather, okay, 512 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: a very bad grandfather, a grandfather who said to his grandchildren, okay, 513 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: for keep my profits, I cut yours. No no, no, 514 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: no, no no, for keep keep my benefice, I cut you. 515 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: So I'm a father, I hope one day will be 516 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: a grandfather, and I fight for me, but for my daughter. 517 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: And I'm proud of that, and I'm proud of that. 518 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: And so to the American people, I will tell you 519 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: to you, mhm, we are workers, and we are proud 520 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: to be workers because we create all the beautiful things 521 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,280 Speaker 1: in the world. The trader they create nothing. The CEO, 522 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: they create nothing that we the workers, the working class, 523 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: we have gold in our ends from nothing from the nature. 524 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: We create buildings, train with bread, especially in France, because 525 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: I know you have not bread good likely in France. 526 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: I'm sorry about that. And we create all the wealthy thing, 527 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: all the beautiful things in the world. And we prove 528 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: that when we are on strike, because we prove when 529 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: we stop the works, the friends collapse. So we prove 530 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: that we are the only the only class, the walking class. 531 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: We have the only class. We create something. So they 532 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: have to respect us, and they have to share with 533 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: us all the profits we create for them, for the companies. 534 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: So we want, as a margat save give me my 535 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: money back. I create, you know, I create the profits. 536 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 1: I want my share and I want it to know. 537 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I think that's beautifully put man. And uh yeah, 538 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: let's make Margaret Thatcher proud. And it wasn't an unexpected 539 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: I said from exactly unlikely, Comrade Margaret Thatcher. Well, and 540 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: I know I got to let you go, but I 541 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: just wanted to stress for people watching and listening, how 542 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: important what you said is right? Because this is something 543 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: that I see all the time in the reporting that 544 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: I do for the Real News, for Breaking Points, for 545 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: my podcast Working People, so often I talked to workers 546 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: who were going on strike not because they want a 547 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: better contract for themselves, but because they know that if 548 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: they accept a contract that a company is offering, that 549 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: every worker who comes in after them is going to 550 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: get screwed. Right that this is what happened when Kellogg's, 551 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: the serial company, went on strike. They knew that the 552 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: contract was going to protect the benefits and wages of 553 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: workers who had been there for a long time, but 554 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: for new workers they were going to get shit. And 555 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: the old workers said, we're not going to, you know, 556 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: take the benefits for ourselves and leave everyone else out 557 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: to dry. We're going to go on strike for everybody. 558 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: And that's what you all are doing in France is 559 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: you you want to keep a system that allows people 560 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: to retire with dignity, that allows people to enjoy some 561 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: of their life without having to work until they die. 562 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: And you're doing that not just for yourselves, but you're 563 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: doing it to carry on the legacy of the generations 564 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: that came before you, and you were doing it to 565 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: pass that legacy on to the generation. That the point 566 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 1: and how you can explain you have to work until 567 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: seventy and there is a alpha. There is like six million, 568 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: ten millions of young people from the next generation. They're unemployed. 569 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: How you can explain that, how you can accept this system? 570 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: You know, if you, if you, if you have your 571 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: new life pension, the life, you give your job to 572 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: a young guy, and that's great. That's a sickle of 573 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: the life, you know. Uh, May I just please before go, 574 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: just say a big hello to all my brothers and 575 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: sisters in USA, especially to comerat from the Ruffer and 576 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 1: what a proofer Local thirty six Union in La Uh 577 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: my comrades, brothers and sisters from a school job teacher 578 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: from Minneapolis, and from my very great camera and I 579 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: met in the last Congress of the World Federation of 580 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: Trade Unions, the new cameras organized from the Starbuck Coffee. 581 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: Big up to you. You are great, You're beautiful, especially 582 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: in your country. I love you really, really, and like 583 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,200 Speaker 1: Joe Hill said, is better than than Like Joe Hill said, 584 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: don't moon organized, no mourn organized. I think that's beautifully 585 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: put baby. And I guess the final question, like you 586 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: said there's a new date the end of this month, 587 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: January thirty first, where you and workers are going to 588 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 1: be hitting the streets again. What can folks inside and 589 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: outside of France, What can working people do to show 590 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: solidarity with you and your fellow countrymen on January thirty first. 591 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: That's an important question because since we create the May 592 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: Day in the nineteenth century, the international story dearity between 593 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: walkers was very, very important to help us to win, 594 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,799 Speaker 1: because I think your lost enemy when you are on 595 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: strike during days and days, weeks and weeks, is the 596 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: feeling of loneliness. That's a big enemy, Okay, because it's 597 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: a psychologic war. You need to be support. You know, 598 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: the buses there have no borders. The buses, they have 599 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: no borders. They could be nationalists, but there have no borders. 600 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: They work together to to to break us. So we 601 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,280 Speaker 1: have to have to to be no borders between working 602 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: class and support each other. So we can just make 603 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: a sign, take a pictures, put it on the social media. 604 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 1: That's very important. We can make a meeting with in 605 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,759 Speaker 1: university or in your union or in your district to 606 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: support us, and maybe we can have a zoom zoom 607 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: connect to exchange. That's possible. We can collect money and 608 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: send it to support people. That's that's a solution too. 609 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: And there is another thing. You can come. You can 610 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: come to meet us, fight with us. Max. You are 611 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: my guests. I tell you you are my guest. We 612 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 1: will host you, will feed you, you will demonstrate with us, 613 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: and you can and tell you people literally on the 614 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,680 Speaker 1: picket lines no problems. It's very important to have delegation 615 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: to support each other. There is a waves in the 616 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: all over the world, waves of struggle and strike, of 617 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 1: course in the north of Europe, but in South America, 618 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: in India, in Bangladesh, UK yea UK that this movement 619 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: whose name enough is Enough is a beautiful movement, and 620 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: we go, we go in the picket line to support them. 621 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 1: The thirty one of March, there is people from Britain 622 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: and from Greece coming in Paris to demonstrate with us. 623 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: I think it's very important to show to the brothers 624 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 1: and sister the message, the sentence you are not alone. 625 00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so I couldn't have said it better myself, 626 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: and that is Matthieu Bouleredat, a train operator and general 627 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union in France. Mattheu, 628 00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today on Breaking Points. Brother, 629 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:20,240 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thank you very much. We're sending 630 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: all of our love and solidarity from here in Baltimore. 631 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 1: Thank you all for watching this segment on Breaking Points. 632 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,959 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to my news outlet, the Real 633 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: News Network, with links in the show notes. See soon 634 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: for the next edition of the Art of Class War. 635 00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: Take care of yourselves, take care of each other. Solidarity forever.