WEBVTT - Let’s Talk About Bad Survivors…with Alex Dvorak 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:08.000 This is let's be clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi, let's 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.680 be clear, listeners. I'm honored to be here. I'm Alex Devorak. 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.040 I'm a writer, director, a model, an executive producer of 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.720 the film Bad Survivor. Today, I'll be talking about my 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.319 experience being a cancer patient as a young person. I 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.760 was nineteen when I got treatment, and there's so much 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.680 to dive into here, into the unique experience of what 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.280 us adolescents and young adults go through when we're diagnosed. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.519 So I want to talk about the aftermath of omission 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.200 and how I turned pain into art. I'll be discussing 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.640 my modeling career and my writing projects, which include graphic novels, films, 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:49.240 TV series and op eds that all center around Team 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.960 Rebellion with dark, humor and heart. So I'd love to 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.080 start today by talking about my connection to Shannon Doherty, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.520 of course, the reason why we're all here listening and 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:05.120 tuning into her podcast. I never met Shannon in person, 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.880 but her legacy has touched my life as I'm sure 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.000 it has touched all of yours. Growing up especially, I 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.839 was a big fan of the movie Heathers. That movie, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.360 in so many ways informed my writing and my desire 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.560 to show on screen and in all the mediums that 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:27.400 I write for insanely strong, unapologetic female characters who maybe 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.680 subvert our normal expectations of what we're used to seeing 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:35.160 women do on screen. And I feel like in real life, 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.280 Shannon had such a knack for speaking uncomfortable truths, and 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.080 that's something I've always felt a real kinship with her on. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.800 So when I started my writing career, I started really 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.920 by publishing essays that said everything that I was afraid 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.120 to say out loud to my own family and friends, 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.560 but for some reason was courageous enough to publish it 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.720 out into the world. And I wanted to write about 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.600 all the taboo topics around a cancer diagnosis as a 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.640 young person, and that's I don't know, It's really been 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:08.000 people like Shannon who have spoken up and spoken out 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:13.360 who have inspired me to do the same. And honestly, 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.200 I was discussing the other day with a friend of 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:16.960 mine what I wanted to share on this podcast, and 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:18.959 I just loved what she said and I wrote it down. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.400 She said, we grew up on the OC, and our 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.000 older sisters grew up on nine O two one oh, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.960 and it's so true, like in nine on two one oh, 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.360 of course, and it was, you know, the symbol of 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.239 like the California lifestyle. At least that's how it felt 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.639 growing up on the East Coast. And it shows like 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.160 nine O two one O and the OC and the 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:40.760 hills that really inspired me growing up on the East coast, 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.080 like move to La So. I grew up in Washington, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.679 d C. And I was just dreaming about this Cali lifestyle. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.360 I went to an all girls Catholic high school with uniforms. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:57.080 It was very preppy. I don't know, winters were really intense. 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.079 It was just East Coast in all of the way. 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.320 And I would sit and watch the OC and think like, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.480 oh my god, these kids have outdoor lockers, like they're 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.960 not concerned with rain, and they're friends with these surfer guys, 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.160 and there's palm trees, and I just thought it was 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:17.079 really idyllic and wonderful. And I would sit in my 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.720 childhood bedroom in high school and I would dream about 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.680 moving to California and that's all that I wanted and 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.120 that was truly my focus. So I worked hard in 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.240 school to get a four point o GPA to like 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.919 get into a school out of State, and I got 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.200 into my dream school, which was Loyola Marymount University LMU 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.680 in LA, right next to Lax up on the bluff, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.920 you know, overlooking all of LA and Venice Beach and 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.360 the Hollywood Sign. And it was really this start of 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.680 my life. And I made my best friends the first 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:53.160 weekend of school I was there at you know, I 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.640 didn't know anybody. I'd been to only once in my 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.240 entire life. I was a total newbie, and I really, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:00.960 for the first time in my life, I felt like, Oh, 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.840 this is where I'm supposed to be this these are 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:05.840 my people. I knew I wanted to be in entertainment 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.040 in some fashion, though I had no clue in what 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.160 capacity yet, and I couldn't wait to explore that and 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.040 figure out where is my place in life? And this 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.320 was where all my energy lie. I was like, Oh, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:22.240 in La. It was really the start of my my independence, 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.520 my growing up. And that's, of course sometimes when life 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.080 likes to throw you a curveball, as it does. So's 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.400 the beginning of my sophomore year. And I went home 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:40.360 to DC for Thanksgiving break and my mom the day 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.480 before Thanksgiving, she was like, well, I'm going to take 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.880 you to the pediatrician. You've been sick for a few months. 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.239 Let's figure out what's going on. And so I'm waiting 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.400 the pediatrician's office with my mom and the doctor said 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.839 something like, you know, I can give you antiotics or 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.240 you can get a chest X ray. And I said, no, no, no, 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.000 I need a chest And I'm not sure why I 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.320 said that. I don't think i'd ever gotten a chest 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.200 X right before. But I had been given antibiotics in 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.359 my school in LA and nothing was working. And I 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:11.800 think I was just sort of like, I just kind 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:12.960 of get to the root of it. I don't know 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:14.200 what the deal is, Like, I don't want to be 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.359 sent home with pills and come back next week. And 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.760 so they sent me down the hole to get sex ray, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.360 got it done. They gave me the results in this 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.000 big Manila envelope that I'll never forget. And I walk 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.919 back into the reception area and my mom and I 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.960 are sitting there for hours, for hours, and there's toddlers, 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.840 you know, sneezing and being sick and their parents all 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.360 stressed out, and one by one, all these kids get 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.320 seen and leave and seen and leave, and it was 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.120 just at one point, just my mom and I and 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.200 the secretaries start packing up to leave, and the nurses 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.360 start packing up to leave, and I was like, this 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.240 is odd. So I being nosy as I take a 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.719 peek at the what's in the envelope? And I consider 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:03.840 myself an intelligent, capable woman, but looking at the sheet 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.320 of paper, I had no idea what was on it. 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.440 It was it literally looked like a sheet of paper 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.159 that had just one long word on it, you know, 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.080 like entire paragraph of text. But I remember seeing one 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.359 word and it's had like lymphocite something. And I turned 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.880 my mom and I was like, Mom, what's lymphoma? And 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.039 she said, oh, it's it's a type of cancer. And 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.200 I was like, oh, I've never I didn't know that, 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.200 like I've never heard that before. And that was it, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:31.479 and I put it back in the envelope and my 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.279 mom when I started talking about Thanksgiving dinner. My mom's 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.320 from Puerto Rico, so we do a big Puerto Rican 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.080 Thanksgiving meal with like a roast pig and rice and beans. 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.800 And we had spent the entire day my pedatrician's office, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.520 so nothing was prepared, and so we were just talking 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.359 about you know, we had to like pick up carrots 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:51.960 on the way home or something like. We were just 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.120 kind of going through the usual day to day routine 0:06:55.360 --> 0:07:00.520 as if I hadn't just seen this result. I suppose 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:02.880 none of that had sunk into either one of us. 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.240 And I remember turning to my right to grab like 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:11.000 a tissue and turning back and my mom had like 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.120 scurried away into the doctor's office and the door had closed, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.480 So now I'm staying alone in like a half dark 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.679 reception area. I just remember thinking like this can't be good, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:27.360 Like I don't this doesn't feel right. And then my 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.040 mom came out like five minutes later, with like red 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.440 puffy eyes, and she sat down next to me and 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.920 just like stared straight ahead like no one. She wasn't 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.080 looking at me, which would be the start of many 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.240 people not making eye contact when needing to tell me 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:43.600 bad news turned out. But she was staring straight ahead 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:50.320 and she said, you have themphoma And I was like, no, no, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.320 because like you said that was cancer, and she was 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.200 like yeah. And then I don't think I cried. I 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.760 don't think we said anything. We just sort of sat 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.360 and that thing happened in the movies where you start 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:11.000 to see your life flash forward, and I saw, you know, 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.880 the graduation I was never going to have, and the 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.520 marriage and the kids, and the career and the success 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.680 that I always wanted, and all those things I was 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.360 never going to get because I was going to die 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:27.320 at nineteen. And so I don't know. We just sat there, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.440 and the doctor eventually came out, and this amazing, really 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:33.839 kind man told me that his son had had the 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.680 exact same hodgkins am foma, and he had always wished 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.640 that the doctor had allowed him to tell his son, 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.520 and he wanted to give me that, and he did 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:44.960 look me in the eye and he did tell me, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.000 this will be terrifying, and you will live. And he 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.280 was like, go straight to the hospital, like don't go home. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.920 Don't you can't go anywhere else, go home, or excuse me, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.880 go well to your new home to the hospital, and 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:00.640 of course I didn't listen. I went. I wanted to 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.760 shower and eat food and process, and then we went 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.120 and he was right. I was in the hospital for 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.520 a very long time after that, and that's how I 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.560 was diagnosed. So I went to Children's hospital, as he 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.480 advised me to. Again, this was my pediatrician. I was nineteen, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.120 and you know, when you're a teenager, you may very 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.000 well feel independent and like an adult in so many ways, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:25.680 and like you know everything about everything, but you're a kid, 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:28.800 and also in so many ways. You know, maybe I 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.559 was allowed to vote, but I you know, I don't know. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.599 I wasn't paying rent, I wasn't an adult. I was 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.320 an adult, but all of a sudden was being faced 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.160 with a very adult diagnosis and needed to make a 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.559 lot of adult decisions. So I was treated in a 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:49.520 children's hospital here in Washington, DC, and I was treated 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.800 alongside toddlers and little kids, and then there was me 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:59.000 as a teenager. It's a very strange experience being the 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:03.040 only teen because these kids are you know, they really 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.040 inspired me in a lot of ways. They were always 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:09.640 in the coloring room and hooked up to their chemo, 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.320 and their parents, you know, of course, right by their side, 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.679 and but they're smiling and they want to play and 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.120 they are very much still kids, which I thought was 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:24.160 always really cool. But as a teen, you know, unfortunately 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.680 or fortunately, I'm not sure I very much understand what's happening, 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.600 what's going on to your body, and what your odds 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:37.840 really are and that can be a very difficult burden. 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.640 And so I was admitted into the ICU and started 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:48.640 surgeries and chemo full time. My chemo schedule was Monday 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.679 through Friday, like at nine am to six pm sort 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.959 of deal. And I remember my first nurse. He was 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.920 amazing Sean. I will never forget him. He was just 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:02.320 like amazing gay man that is immediately bonded with and 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.080 and I see you. I was his only patient that 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.320 was awake and conscious. So I think he just was 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.280 really chatty and wanted to talk with me all night 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.800 and I loved that about him. And I remember him 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.560 closing my blinds one day and saying, oh, you know, 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.079 It's like he's like, oh, where do you go to school? 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.400 I was like, oh, LM you you know, and I 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.840 light lit up talking about La and my life in La. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.839 And he's like, oh, it's a shame you're gonna have 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.040 to drop out of school. And I was like, oh, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.720 I'm but I'm not. What do you I'm never going 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.920 to drop out of me Like this is no And 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.280 he was like oh, okay, you know. And I think 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.440 he gave me the time I needed to process. But 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:39.600 I will never forget that moment because I was like, oh, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.280 I'm I'm not going back to my life. Actually this 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.320 this is my my life, and you have to understand. 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.600 This happened over the course of several hours. So life 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:54.200 can can throw you curveballs, but I don't know. I've 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.559 always felt like the sooner, you know, the sooner you're 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:02.040 able to accept. I'm a planner, So the sooner I'm 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.280 able to accept and learn as much as I can, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.360 then I can make a plan and move forward even 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.920 if it's difficult for me. Like education and understanding. You know, 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.160 I was given like a cancer binder, and I studied 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.000 it every day like a total weirdo. That it really 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.160 gave me a lot of reassurance in some way to 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.240 understand what was happening inside my body, even if it 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.240 was horrific. And so, you know, the tumor that was 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:31.880 in my chest that showed in that original X ray 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.640 was large and weighing on my heart and lungs. They 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:40.080 weren't able to operate on it, but luckily the chemo 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:45.320 really shrunk it fairly quickly. Actually, I mean, of course 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.520 it doesn't feel that way in treatment, but in hindsight, 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:56.880 treatment did work. It was effective for me, thankfully, And 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.280 you know, there is something I wanted to touch on here, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.239 which was and I don't know if this is everyone's 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.480 experience in treatment or a lot of people's experience it, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.360 or is it just sort of this teenage age that 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:14.760 I was, But I found that many times I wasn't 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:19.000 spoken to directly right. So for instance, like my care 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.160 team would be speaking to my parents out in the 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.160 hallway about something that was about to happen to my body, 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.400 or you know, surgery I ought to go into, or 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.760 procedure or what the next step was. And I found 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.600 that very odd because it was happening to me, and 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.200 I was you know, I'm a teenager, but you you're 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:42.160 your own person enough at that point. And I really 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.720 worked hard, though I for sure lost this at some 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:47.680 point in treatment, but I did work very hard in 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.600 the beginning of treatment to advocate for myself and speak up, 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.880 and I did in an odd way. Sometimes I have 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:56.600 to tell people to look me in the eye and 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.960 like give it to me straight. Often sometimes I would 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.400 have a doctor that would have to do that. When 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.080 my parents left, like there were certain things they wanted 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.360 to tell me, not in front of them. It was 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.320 just a really I was always kind of navigating this 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.800 experience of wanting to be taken seriously, wanting to be 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.040 taken seriously as an adult though being in a children's hospital, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:20.280 and they're obviously used to treating children and in a 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.760 different way. Of course, children are going to need a 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:27.600 different level of care than teens need. And something I 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.200 just want to mention a small tangent that feels like 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.280 incredibly important, is you know, I've been working really closely 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.600 with Teen Cancer America and they're this incredibly wonderful organization 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.800 and they're really doing the real work. They're creating facilities 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:47.800 and programs within existing hospitals right now to help treat 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.040 teens and help meet their needs that right now are 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.160 not are really not being met. And teens really do 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.400 need something different than the grown adult and the elder thing. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.840 They need something different than the youth and the kids 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.920 in treatment. It just feels really important to mention, so 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.040 please check out Team Cancer America. They're doing such such 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.160 wonderful things. I'm really honored to be working with them 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:28.280 and an advocate for them. So in my family of four, 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.240 as I mentioned, my mom is from Puerto Rico, my 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.280 dad is from Prague, and I have my big sister 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.680 who's one year older than me, and the four of us. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.040 You know, of course, our families are far away and 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.280 in different places all over Europe in Puerto Rico, and 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.160 so the four of us in DC like this close 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:51.920 little unit. And my sister is a hypochondriac, and it 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.000 was very afraid to visit me in the hospital, though 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.200 she definitely conquered her fear and did it. But I 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.160 do I bring this up because I remember feeling like okay. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.760 When I was diagnosed, I immediately felt like okay, of 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.520 the four of us, I'm this makes sense. I'm glad 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.040 it's me, Like I'm the one that can do this. 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:15.360 I can I can handle this, and I don't think 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.480 I could handle seeing any one of them go through it. 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:25.800 And I used my competitiveness I always grew up as 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:31.280 an athlete to help me through treatment in so many ways. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:37.000 So for instance, I used this point system. I would 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.360 use this point system in my mind to survive treatment. 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.160 I would play these games with myself. So for instance, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.120 when I was receiving radiation, I'm you know, you're laying 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.560 down in a bed and they're dropping you in and 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.200 I had a radiation mass to make sure that you know, 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.520 my neck and shoulders and head weren't moving, of course, 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.360 to make sure that they're radiating the right area. And 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.280 right before they're putting on the mask and things, and 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:07.000 they're sort of boulting you in place. The nurses come 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:08.560 in and they're like adjusting me, and so I would 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.480 play this point system, Like if they had to adjust 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.520 me twice, then I like lost points, so they had 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.120 to if they didn't have adjust me at all, Like 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.120 I got a certain amount of points, and I would 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:18.680 have this point system, and at the end of the day, 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.879 I would like rank in my own head. And I 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:22.919 never told anybody this, but I would rank all my 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:27.040 points to see if, like did I win. And I 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.280 know that the journeys imported not wit necessarily winning or losing, 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.359 but that's just not how my brain works. Like I 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.080 love to win things. I loved to score goals and 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.560 winning helps me and I like competing with myself and 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.040 so I did a point system with just about anything 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:51.400 and everything, and it helped me get through treatment. And 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:56.120 I have written a young adult graphic novel about called 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.760 Chemo Kids, and it's about a girl a teen girl, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.600 Dave All, who is being treated at a children's hospital, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.680 and the kids that night come alive with this fantasy 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.520 world and they teach her how to play games, mind 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.600 games that win her points and it helps her cope 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.520 with her daytime. Like, it's just something I find fascinating now, 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:18.480 the mind games I played to survive, because it's something 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.199 I don't think I was necessarily aware of. I think 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.480 in the moment, I thought, I am so painfully bored 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.919 that I have now created this odd fantasy life. But 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.280 looking back now as an adult and realizing, wow, that 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:39.360 was really that took a lot of ingenuity Like that, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.159 that's fascinating to me what the mind can do to 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.560 get you through something really dark, you know, finding something 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.760 light and playful. And I've always been a person that like, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.720 I need a finish line, and of course with something 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:58.920 like cancer, there's not always you know, you don't really 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.560 you know it's going to come out to hour by hour, 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.440 day by day, or month by month. So I needed 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.119 to sort of set this finish line at the end 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:11.280 of each day to show something for myself, you know, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:17.800 to really continue. And you know, the day that I 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.560 was told I was cancer free, it was interesting. I 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.880 was twenty and my doctors pulled me into this room. 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:31.200 I knew every single inch of my hospital wing, of course, 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.120 and they brought me into this room I'd never seen before. 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.760 It was like a door that felt like it just appeared, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.240 and they brought me in and it was like a 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.760 computer room, and I had all these wires and they 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.840 sat me and my parents down and we were in 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.239 these office chairs with the wheels on them. And you 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.400 have to understand at this point, I'm on so much medication, 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.439 and you know, I very much felt like there was 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.640 chemo my system though I was just finishing chemo and 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.240 moving onto radiation, and you know, sleeping pills and anti 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:06.639 nausea meds and anti anxiety meds and morphine and just 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.919 so much going on in my body. And I'm staring 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.359 at these wires for some reason, and maybe I'm a 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.199 little OCD and needed I don't know. I was just like, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:18.840 what is this? It didn't I just really did not 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.960 know what they were to tell me. And they brought 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:25.000 up on one of the screens my scans, and I 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:27.680 had sort of an obsession with scans. It really felt 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:32.360 like something real and tangible that I could see and 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.960 like measure progress. And so they opened up a scan, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.320 which I thought looked really cool, and I'm trying to 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.800 figure out what's on it, and the doctor showed me 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:45.080 that my tumor had shrunk into such an extent that 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.879 it was dead and now considered scar tissue, and the 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.160 cancer that was on the other parts of my lymph 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:57.119 nodes were all gone and it hadn't spread to my 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:03.560 bone marrow, and I was now are free. And my 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:06.760 parents were in tears and hugging me and kissing me 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.280 and so joyful and relieved that their daughter was going 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:15.439 to be okay. And I just sat there staring at 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:20.840 the chords, and I had no idea what to say, 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.480 and I felt my doctor staring at me, sort of 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:29.520 waiting for something. And I will never forget one of 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.119 my doctors saying, this is the part where you're supposed 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:39.640 to be happy, and I wasn't happy, and I didn't 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:42.560 believe them. I don't know if that's odd to say, 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:47.240 but I was like, you know, someone's telling me you're healthy, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.679 but this is not. This is not healthy, Like I 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.440 know healthy that I'm not. I feel terrible. I look, 0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:57.200 you know what I mean? I look very much ill, 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:02.120 and I remember just sort of arguing actually a little bit, 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.919 and being like, but if I'm cancer free, why am 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.520 I going into tradation? And you know, I'd had friends 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.439 who had cancer and it came back, and so I 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:15.560 just wasn't trusting, and I certainly didn't feel happy. I 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:19.600 felt very confused and a bit ashamed that I wasn't happy, 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.080 and a bit ashamed that I wasn't maybe throwing the 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.000 parade or thinking them as I probably should have been 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.840 or could have been, but I wasn't. I wasn't feeling 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:36.119 those emotions. And I hope that anyone listening who has 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:40.119 felt that way before can release some of that shame 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.560 and know that you're not alone if you don't immediately 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.879 feel what others are expecting you to feel, and it's okay, 0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:53.080 It's okay, right of course, Now looking back, I can 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.560 say I was in the midst of intense trauma, and 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.960 it is okay that I wasn't smiling or laughing or 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:05.320 didn't feel relieved yet you know, like that's that actually 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.480 kind of tracks that makes sense. And I sort of 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.399 felt like the relief in the celebration was for my 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:14.840 family to feel not me because I kind of felt like, welly, 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:16.440