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Speaker 1: On The Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph

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Speaker 1: and bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Caitlin, you've got second place in the singing contest.

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Speaker 3: No, no, you're happy about it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yay, Now smash your trophy. You're not a champion,

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Speaker 2: no of us. Right, that's that's the part I'm not

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Speaker 2: happy about Mini Driver as bully mother. You hate to

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Speaker 2: see it. I think that was a strong intro. It

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Speaker 2: did go as it tends to do. It went a

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Speaker 2: little Australian at the end, but that's that's okay. Where

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Speaker 2: this is a safe place. Because one guy told Caitlyn

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Speaker 2: they had a good Australian accent, and I chose to

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Speaker 2: also take that as applying to me.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, of course, of course we are a unit.

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Speaker 3: We are one.

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Speaker 2: We are a unit. Look at that unit, and that unit.

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Speaker 3: Is called the Bechdel Cast. And I'm Caitlin Dorante and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamie Loftus the other half of the unit. And yes,

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Speaker 2: this is our podcast where we take a look at

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Speaker 2: your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Test as a jumping off point for a discussion.

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Speaker 2: But wait a second, Caitlin, what's the Bechdel test?

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Speaker 3: All?

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Speaker 2: Is it a Minnie driver yelling at her daughter to

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Speaker 2: smash a trophy? Because spoiler alert, yes it is.

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Speaker 3: It does pass. Yeah. So the Bechdel test commonly known

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Speaker 3: as the Bechdel Wallace test because Alison Bechdel created it

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Speaker 3: in collaboration with her friend Liz Wallace. It first appeared

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Speaker 3: in Alison Bechdel's comic Dix to Watch out For. And

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Speaker 3: it's a medium metric that has many versions. The one

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Speaker 3: that we use is this, do two characters of a

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Speaker 3: marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other?

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Speaker 3: Is that conversation about something other than a man and

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Speaker 3: a little caveat that we add is is the conversation

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Speaker 3: narratively important in some way or is it just throw

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Speaker 3: away dialogue? Because ideally it's a nice, juicy conversation.

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Speaker 2: It's got to have the juice. Yeah, And today we

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Speaker 2: are covering a director we've covered many many and by

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Speaker 2: many I think I mean too possibly three.

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Speaker 3: Well, love and basketball.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and the woman King, the woman King right, So

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Speaker 2: this is three, this is three. Little does this director

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Speaker 2: know that she's about to get her Bechdel cast Letterman jacket,

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Speaker 2: which is a third appearance, Honor. We are covering Beyond

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Speaker 2: the Lights today, a twenty fourteen movie directed by Gina

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Speaker 2: Prince Bythwood, and we have a returning guest. It's true.

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Speaker 3: They are a religious, black, multiracial, non binary suicide survivor

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Speaker 3: who is currently the seventh Poet Laureate of Portland, Maine.

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Speaker 3: I said, mained, mained, that's not the name of the state.

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Speaker 3: Air debut poetry collection, Judas and Suicide, was selected as

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Speaker 3: a finalist for the New England Book Award. They also

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Speaker 3: have a second poetry collection, Refused a second Date. They

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Speaker 3: recently published essays in venues such as LGBTQ, Nation, Stylist,

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Speaker 3: and Full Stop, as well as interviews in Black Girl Nerds.

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Speaker 3: Maya was one of three artists of color selected to

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Speaker 3: represent Maine in the Kennedy Center's Arts Across America series

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, and they were also selected as one

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Speaker 3: of the Advocates Champions of Pride in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: You can follow her at Maya williamspoet dot com. It's

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Speaker 3: Maya Williams.

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Speaker 2: Say, well back, welcome back.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry it's not dear Evan Hanson. But also I'm

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Speaker 4: not sorry that.

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Speaker 3: It's okay.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, I think that there's a few people out there

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Speaker 2: breathing a sigh of relief that they have escaped the

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Speaker 2: clutches of Evan Hanson this time, just this time, Maya

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Speaker 2: will be back and you will experience the majesty of

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Speaker 2: Evan Hanson. God, I really wish we could all watch

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Speaker 2: that movie together.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen it, so I don't even know what

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Speaker 3: people are talking about when they talk about it, or like,

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Speaker 3: obviously know what the I know it's a movie, but

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Speaker 3: I don't know, brave why people talk about it.

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Speaker 2: There's so many ways to watch that movie. There's just okay,

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Speaker 2: I every watch a poem, but no, today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about Beyond the Lights. Maya, what is your history and

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Speaker 2: connection with this movie with the filmmaker you know Dealers twice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen I've seen this movie for the first

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Speaker 4: time my freshman year of college, and I was obsessed

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Speaker 4: with it at the time because I was like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, by racial representation, oh my god, mental help.

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Speaker 4: And then and then come to adulthood of like, oh

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Speaker 4: I don't like how she's in love with the cop. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but we'll get into that, and and yeah, it's very

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Speaker 4: familiar with this director's work. I got to cover the

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Speaker 4: Secret life of Bees on the on the Black Girl

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Speaker 4: Film podcast and that was a real joy and a

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Speaker 4: real treat. Said, movies really good, has its fails like

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Speaker 4: any other movie, but yeah, enjoyed that. And yeah, I

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Speaker 4: watched this movie twice in preparation for this, and I

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Speaker 4: couldn't find a commentary to like delve into. So I

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Speaker 4: just spent a lot of my time just reading interviews

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Speaker 4: and watching like featurette interviews. So so no commentary tidbits

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Speaker 4: from me today. But it'll still be your name.

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Speaker 2: I really that's like of the many things that we've

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Speaker 2: lost in the like lack of physical media, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like I have to keep saying, like I need

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Speaker 2: to issue a formal apology to all of my friends

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Speaker 2: and lovers who I roasted for having too many DVDs

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Speaker 2: at their house, including Caitlin, because you were all right,

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Speaker 2: you were all right. I was wrong.

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Speaker 3: I accept your apologize.

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Speaker 2: I'm really big for him. But I feel like one

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Speaker 2: of the many things we've lost is the art of

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Speaker 2: the commentary track. They just don't happen. It's embarrassing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we do get you know, we've gained letterboxed interviews, we've

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Speaker 2: gained round tables, but we've lost the commentary. I just

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Speaker 2: feel like we got to bring it back.

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Speaker 3: What was the Ben Affleck commentary that was hilarious? Was

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Speaker 3: it for Armageddon?

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Speaker 2: It was for I think it was for Armageddon, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: where he was just and then there's also a really

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Speaker 2: good one yeah, where he's just like roasting specifically from

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Speaker 2: a science perspective, which is just like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm reminded that, like Ben Affleck is like a

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Speaker 2: pretty smart person, and it kind of like rattles. It

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Speaker 2: rattles me every time I re learned that where sometimes

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Speaker 2: you early you hear him speaking fluent Spanish, You're like, wow,

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Speaker 2: ben Affleck is objectively smarter than me. That's wild. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this isn't passing the Bectel test whatsoever. No, but do

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Speaker 2: you remember when he had that cardboard cutout of Anna

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Speaker 2: to Armis on his lawn when they were dating. Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I feel like that passed out of the

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Speaker 2: cultural memory way too fast. First of all, that they

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Speaker 2: did date, it was like a pandemic relationship. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: that like I guess that his kids liked her, which

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Speaker 2: is great, but that like led to for some reason,

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Speaker 2: there was a time during lockdown where there was a

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Speaker 2: cardboard cutout of Anna to Armis on the lawn that

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Speaker 2: the kids were like playing with.

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Speaker 3: That's uch weird.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm remembering that basically correctly.

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Speaker 3: No, I believe you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, anyway, what's your history with Beyond the Lives, Caitlin?

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Speaker 3: I had not seen it before, so this was my

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Speaker 3: first watch. And yeah, that's kind of it. I think

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Speaker 3: there's some interesting things about it that I enjoyed, and

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Speaker 3: then there's other things that I didn't enjoy so much,

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Speaker 3: and we'll dive into that further. Yeah, but yeah, short

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Speaker 3: history with it. What about you, Jamie?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I also had not This movie was not on

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Speaker 2: my radar, which is I thought was kind of bizarre

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Speaker 2: because I'm like a fan of Gina Prince Bythwood. I

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Speaker 2: just I don't know, I don't know if like, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure I heard about it when it came out, but

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Speaker 2: this movie just missed me. I'm not really sure what happened.

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Speaker 2: It was successful and it was well reviewed, so I

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Speaker 2: guess I don't know. Twenty fourteen I was. I guess

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Speaker 2: I was like working at a bakery. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I was at a bakery. It missed me.

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Speaker 3: Well, it was well reviewed, but it only made like

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Speaker 3: fourteen million at the box office, so it's not as

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Speaker 3: though a lot of people went and saw this and

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Speaker 3: that this was like a super popular movie.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, I guess. All I would say was

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Speaker 2: like it's it wasn't like a flop by any means,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I this one missed missed me. I had

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Speaker 2: a fun time, based on the very vague title, figuring

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Speaker 2: out what genre was which actually does speak to what

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Speaker 2: a prolific and what's the word I'm looking for? Like,

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Speaker 2: when you hear that Gina Prince Bithwood has directed a movie,

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Speaker 2: you know you're probably gonna like it. But she directs

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Speaker 2: across so many genres that I was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: really know what to expect from this, and it surprised me.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to talk about it because I think that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff about it that stands out

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Speaker 2: in a way that I really liked. There the copaganda

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Speaker 2: kind of took me by surprise. Yeah, and like how

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Speaker 2: specific the propaganda got. We were like, you know how

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Speaker 2: the LAPD is really good at handling domestic violence situations.

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Speaker 2: And you're like, hold on, no, wait a second. But

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things to like about this movie.

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Speaker 2: And also I just feel like, I don't know, like

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Speaker 2: the twenty fourteen noess of this movie because of like

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Speaker 2: what a pop culture focus movie it is was fun.

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Speaker 2: You were like, for some reason, for some reason, Don

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Speaker 2: Lemon participates in the climax of this movie. Don Lemon

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Speaker 2: is at the peak of the movie. I was like

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Speaker 2: live texting the movie to someone else. I was like,

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Speaker 2: you're never gonna believe who makes a cameo at the

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Speaker 2: emotional climax of the movie. It is Don Lemon. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people in this movie who have since

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Speaker 2: been disgraced. It just was very twenty fourteen in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways. Don Lemon's at the climax of it.

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Speaker 2: I just like Don Lemon spoke at by college graduation.

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Speaker 2: It just really taking me back to like college era. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: my college graduation. The two people who spoke were Don

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Speaker 2: Lemon and Jay Leno deeply cursed event. But I would

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Speaker 2: love to know what those two people talked about backstage. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: this movie is weird. I think this movie is weird.

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Speaker 2: I didn't love it, but I think that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot to like about it and I'm excited to talk

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: Well, shall we do that?

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Speaker 2: Let's shall do that.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break first, and then we'll come

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Speaker 3: back for the recap.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So before the recap, I will place a content

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Speaker 3: warning for suicide, sexual assault, and domestic violence. So the

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Speaker 3: story opens in South London in nineteen ninety eight. We

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Speaker 3: meet Nony Jean. She's mixed. She is black and white,

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Speaker 3: and her white mom, Macy, played by Mini Driver.

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Speaker 2: Jump Scare, did not see Mini Driver coming.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: She takes Noni to a black owned hair salon because

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Speaker 3: Noni is performing in a talent contest the following day

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Speaker 3: and Macy doesn't know how to style black hair, while.

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Speaker 4: A radio recording about Princess Diana plays in the back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, God, I love it. There should be because in

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Speaker 2: general this movie is like not. I just I think

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Speaker 2: there should be like a good supercut of like clunky

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Speaker 2: historical signifier moments, because that's when where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: is it nineteen ninety seven? I feel like there's so

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Speaker 2: many movies that they're also like randomly apropos of nothing.

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Speaker 2: They're like, are you afraid of Y two K? Just

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Speaker 2: to let you know, like what it is anyways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, okay. So then we see Noni at the

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Speaker 3: talent contest. She does an amazing job singing Blackbird by

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Speaker 3: Nina Simone and she gets first runner up, but her

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Speaker 3: mom is furious that the judges picked another girl as

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Speaker 3: the winner.

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Speaker 2: Which, yeah, while this scene that Minnie driver through was

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Speaker 2: embarrassing and unfair giving it to I think her name

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Speaker 2: is Little Tammy. She was robbed.

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Speaker 4: She was robbed, Yeah, oh yeah, robbed by a bunch

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Speaker 4: of white girls in like very shiny clothes, ye and like,

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Speaker 4: which of course becomes very telling as to the trajectory

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Speaker 4: for Noni, but like, yeah, we can get into that

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Speaker 4: more later, but right.

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Speaker 3: The point is though, that Macie puts a lot of

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Speaker 3: pressure on Noni to be a winner, to be the best.

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Speaker 3: We cut to Noni as an adult. She's played by

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Speaker 3: google Batha Rah. She is now a hip hop artist,

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Speaker 3: like a breakout, like on the cusp of being like

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Speaker 3: an enormous record breaking star. We see a very horny

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Speaker 3: music video.

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Speaker 2: Of hers, which also is like, so I was like, uh,

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Speaker 2: twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Gary, she wins her first Billboard Award for a song

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Speaker 3: she performed with her boyfriend Kid Culprit. And also there's

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Speaker 3: a one hundred percent chance I will accidentally call him

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Speaker 3: kid Cutty. It's just gonna happen there.

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Speaker 2: Well. And also it's like it's also MGK, which is

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Speaker 2: also another jump scare that you're just like, okay, MIDI driver.

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Speaker 2: I can accept that I like Manny, but then MGK

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Speaker 2: and it's like twenty fourteen MGK, and he's clearly trying

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Speaker 2: to like soft launch a movie career. It's just like,

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Speaker 2: what is happening? Wow.

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Speaker 3: Here's my little anecdote about that is that when I

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Speaker 3: saw him in this movie, I did not recognize him

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Speaker 3: because I don't know what Machine Gun Kelly looks like

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Speaker 3: or who that even really is. I recognize the name,

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Speaker 3: but then when I was like looking through the credits

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Speaker 3: on IMDb, I was like, wait, what machine Gun Kelly?

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Speaker 3: I know that name? Who is that person? And then

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Speaker 3: I realized he plays Kid culprit, and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, so he's outside of like making a lot

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Speaker 2: of bad music. He is most I think most famous

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Speaker 2: for being in a really kind of intense public relationship

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Speaker 2: with Megan Fox. Oh Gotsie. My brush with Machine Gun

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Speaker 2: Kelly was when I was working at a haunted hay

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Speaker 2: Ride and he and Megan Fox took like a huge

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Speaker 2: like like not a limo but like a big like

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Speaker 2: uber triple, like a really nice car to the hay

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Speaker 2: Ride and paid like three hundred dollars to get the

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Speaker 2: VIP experience. Oh gosh, I was like doing my little

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Speaker 2: scary thing. And then uh and then a tractor, like

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Speaker 2: a hay ride tractor full of only Megan Fox and

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Speaker 2: Machine Gun Kelly past and they didn't get scared because

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Speaker 2: it wasn't scary.

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Speaker 3: Whoa, I guess you should have done a better job, Jamie.

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Speaker 2: It was really humbling, and seeing Machine Gun Kelly kind

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Speaker 2: of brings me to a dark place.

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Speaker 3: Sorry. Well, anyway, he's in the movie playing Kid Cutty

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Speaker 3: or something. Okay, So Noni's first album is dropping in

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Speaker 3: a few weeks, and again she's like on the precipice

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Speaker 3: of like extreme she's already famous, but She's like about

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Speaker 3: to be a huge, huge star. Her mom, Macy is

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Speaker 3: there and she's still very, very intense, and she is

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Speaker 3: now Nony's manager. That night, Nony goes into her hotel

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Speaker 3: room in Beverly Hills. She's sitting on the railing of

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Speaker 3: a balcony and she attempts suicide, but a cop named

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Speaker 3: Officer cas Nicol played by Nate Parker saves her and

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Speaker 3: they have this moment where they look at each other meaningfully.

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Speaker 3: And then in the aftermath of this suicide attempt, more

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Speaker 3: cops have shown up, including Kaz's dad, who is the

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Speaker 3: police captain played by Danny Glover.

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Speaker 2: I'm scared Danny Glover of.

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Speaker 3: Saw One fame, that.

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Speaker 2: Is, as we're always saying, his most iconic roles, most

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Speaker 2: famous for being like, who is Jig Saw?

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Speaker 4: People?

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Speaker 3: People are just like Danny Glover, oh of sol Saw One.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't make it to Saw It too, unfortunately. I

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Speaker 2: would love if they. I mean, there's been ten at

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Speaker 2: this point, bring him back for eleven. Right, the cannon's

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Speaker 2: a mess. You like, you won't be disturbing anything, and

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Speaker 2: and you know Jigsaw would love to see him.

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Speaker 3: Oh, tell me about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anyways, Danny Glover's in this movie.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and he's telling his son, Officer Kaz, to lie

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Speaker 3: out what happened.

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Speaker 2: Who's and also Kaz I'm not mistaken in saying that

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Speaker 2: Kaz says it's short for Kazam.

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Speaker 4: That's correct. Yeah, I was.

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Speaker 2: Looking through the letterbox. Also follow me on letterbox. I

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Speaker 2: just don't account it's Jamie alert. But I was looking

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Speaker 2: through letterbox to see if anyone makes note of the

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Speaker 2: fact that our romantic lead is named Kazam, which is

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Speaker 2: a joke that only appears once. I think that, like

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Speaker 2: it comes back one more time where she's like, wow, Kazam,

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Speaker 2: you sure know how to kiss, and it was like,

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Speaker 2: his name's Kazam.

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Speaker 3: His name is Kazam. He says that he was named

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Speaker 3: that because his parents thought it sounded African, and then

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Speaker 3: we just breeze past the rest of all of that, right.

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Speaker 2: And then you're like, okay, well, he is too old

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Speaker 2: to be named after the genie that Shack played, So

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Speaker 2: I guess that that is out right, but it would

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Speaker 2: be wild in my head, Cannon, he was named after

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Speaker 2: Shack Gemie. Oh wow, remember that?

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Speaker 3: And you know what, it's high time we cover that movie.

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Speaker 2: Honestly kind of shocking that we have it COVID Kazam.

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Speaker 2: I really I cannot tell you a thing that happened

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Speaker 2: in that movie, but I know that I was really

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Speaker 2: into it.

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Speaker 3: I saw it at a drive in movie theater, and

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Speaker 3: I also couldn't tell you a single thing.

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Speaker 2: But definitely Shaq's name is Kazam in that movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so there are two movie characters named Kazam.

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Speaker 3: But isn't there that Mandela effect thing where people are like,

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Speaker 3: wasn't his character's name Shazam?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Is that? Oh my gosh, is that?

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Speaker 4: I think?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 3: Does that sound familiar?

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Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with that.

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Speaker 3: Hang on, I have to look this up. This is important.

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Speaker 2: This is a good episode already, we're like an ad

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Speaker 2: armist cardboard cutout Kazam.

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Speaker 3: Although, oh no, wait, it's not Shack, it's sin Sinbad. Wait,

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Speaker 3: hang on, no, it's.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely Shack. It's definitely sha is Sinbad Shazam and

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Speaker 2: Shaq is cousin. Maybe Wait what, No, Shazam is.

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Speaker 3: That superhero movie from DC? Oh what am I thinking?

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Speaker 3: There's I swear to goodness, there's some I believe Pandela

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Speaker 3: effect thing here.

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Speaker 2: I believe something about like Mandela Effect Sinbad rings a

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Speaker 2: vague bell.

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Speaker 3: Right, okay, okay, anyway, let's move along. Okay. So Officer

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Speaker 3: Danny Glover is telling has I.

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Speaker 2: Just found a Reddit post from seven years ago on

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Speaker 2: our slash Mandela Effect titled the Sinbad Genie Movie. So

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Speaker 2: you are okayat let's see. Okay. Even the people involved,

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Speaker 2: like Sinbad himself, claim there is no such thing, but

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Speaker 2: everyone I talk to remembers it in some fashion if

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Speaker 2: they're old enough to hit the demographic. So this is

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Speaker 2: someone who is convinced there is a sin genie movie.

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Speaker 3: I also, okay, I knew it. There's okay, we all

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Speaker 3: remember if if we're old enough.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna text it to you. I'm gonna just

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Speaker 2: so we can link it in the description. This feels relevant,

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Speaker 2: Yeah it does, all right, all right, anyway, sorry the movie, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's Gina fritz Bythewood set herself up for this by

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Speaker 2: naming her romantic lead Kazam. She did. Yeah, yeah, okay.

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Speaker 3: So Officer Danny Glover is telling kaz to lie about

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Speaker 3: what happened that NONI had too much to drink and

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Speaker 3: she slipped on accident in order to kind of like

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Speaker 3: protect her image Titanic vibes big time. Okay, and I

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Speaker 3: slipped and I would have gone overboard if if.

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Speaker 2: Jester kazam Here hadn't saved me and almost went over himself.

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Speaker 3: Okay, the Titanic parallels in this movie, and I don't okay,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to make light of suicide or suicidal ideation,

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Speaker 3: but specific around this plot point, there are so many

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Speaker 3: Titanic parallels that I will insist on saying, yes, okay, okay, anyway, okay.

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Speaker 3: So kaz is like, no, I don't want to lie

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Speaker 3: about this, like she should be in the hospital, she

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Speaker 3: needs help, but he is pressured to go ahead with

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Speaker 3: this lie at a press conference, and so now he's

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Speaker 3: very disappointed in NONI and like this situation, this fabrication,

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Speaker 3: and despite what was claimed at this press conference, the media,

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Speaker 3: the fans, everyone is still speculating that it was a

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Speaker 3: suicide attempt and because of the sex symbol image that

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00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:48,120
Speaker 3: the music industry has cultivated for a suicide attempt quote

390
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 3: unquote tarnishes that image. So the record label wants to

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Speaker 3: push her album release back, but Macy negotiates with the

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Speaker 3: label to keep it as is, so now there's even

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Speaker 3: more pressure on Noni to get people to forget about

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Speaker 3: this story that's still circulating around the news. Meanwhile, kaz

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Speaker 3: is receiving a lot of attention since he was the

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Speaker 3: person who saved Noni, and he has public exposure now

397
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Speaker 3: for speaking at that press conference, and he is being

398
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Speaker 3: encouraged to leverage this and use it to elevate himself

399
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Speaker 3: as a political candidate because he has aspirations as a politician.

400
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Speaker 3: He then goes to pay a visit to Noni to

401
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Speaker 3: apologize for how he behaved after the press conference, and

402
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Speaker 3: they're vibing again, and she's like, let's get out of here.

403
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Speaker 3: So they run away from her mom and all the

404
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 3: popparazzi and they go to get some food and they

405
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,479
Speaker 3: watch some planes take off at Lax, you know, really

406
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: fun activity. I think we can all agree.

407
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Speaker 2: It was something that made me laugh because there I

408
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Speaker 2: mean this and I say this with love. There's a

409
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Speaker 2: lot of moments that are very corny. One of these

410
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: moments is when they're in the car an officer Kazam

411
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: is like, you're cold. You should wear my jacket, and

412
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Speaker 2: I was like, or turn the heat on in the car.

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Speaker 2: The fuck are you talking about it? She was like,

414
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Speaker 2: And if I was yeah, if I was notny, I'd

415
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Speaker 2: be like, uh no, I don't need your crusty jacket.

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Speaker 2: Can you play your heat? Gross?

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Speaker 3: I wonder because throughout the movie he's like, well, we'll

418
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Speaker 3: get there, but he's very judgy about different things. Yes,

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Speaker 3: And I wonder if it was him kind of implying

420
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: you're showing too much skin in that revealing outfit, like

421
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Speaker 3: let me cover you up.

422
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Speaker 2: It's so like, I don't know, this is another movie

423
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: that it's wild. It's almost ten years old, and you

424
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: can like feel in a good way. How like the

425
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Speaker 2: way that characters are written, even in this director's movie

426
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Speaker 2: sp it has like significantly evolved for sure.

427
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Speaker 3: In any case, they're at the airport and they're vibing

428
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: until she finds a business card of a tabloid journalist

429
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Speaker 3: who was offering kas money for the exclusive story on

430
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Speaker 3: what really happened that night at the balcony, and so

431
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: Noni assumes his intentions aren't great. He doesn't like what

432
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Speaker 3: she's implying, so now things are pretty tense between them,

433
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: and he drops her off at the house she recently

434
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 3: bought in Beverly Hills question Mark and he's like, okay, bye,

435
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: and she's like, actually, wait, I do trust you, and

436
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 3: let's kiss. So they do and then he leaves and

437
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,640
Speaker 3: goes home, and his dad, Danny Glover, is like, be careful.

438
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 3: You're trying to be a politician, but she's not first

439
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 3: lady material.

440
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. Like, and so as a professional cop, like you're

441
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 4: more so concerned for your son's political image that the

442
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 4: fact that your son, a fellow police officer, is dating

443
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 4: someone who he's saved, Like, that's that what It's really bizarre?

444
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I had to keep challenging. I'm like,

445
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: is am I like bringing twenty twenty four brain to

446
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: the way that the media cycles work? Or is it

447
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: like written a little behind the time it came out?

448
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: And I'm not totally sure because yeah, I'm like, in

449
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: my mind, if that happens, any establishment person, which his

450
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: dad is, would be like, great, go with this. Like

451
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, people love when popstars date

452
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 2: cops unless they're young. It would like, do you remember

453
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: when Lana del Rey dated a cop that didn't go

454
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 2: very well? She really lost she really lost some people

455
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 2: on that one. But it's like that maybe it was

456
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 2: like we weren't at that point in discourse yet where

457
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: your young fans, if they found out your dating a cop,

458
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: would be like, oh not really. Into this era.

459
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: Fourteen, the cops were perceived more favorably by like the

460
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 3: general public.

461
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 4: Which is why I have so many questions about the

462
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: ethical dilemma around around that, Yeah.

463
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 2: It seems like a wind win. I don't know. This

464
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: MOVIEE is like attempting to say things about pr relationships

465
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: that I think is interesting, but I was a little

466
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: confused on like where.

467
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 3: It landed right anyway, So Danny Glover is like, you

468
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 3: shouldn't be hanging out with her, it's bad for your career,

469
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 3: but NONI and Kaz keep seeing each other anyway. There's

470
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: a montage where she's doing different like you know, learning

471
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: dance choreography and like doing a make a Wish thing

472
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: and photo shoots and he's there every step of the way.

473
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 3: But like we foreshadowed, he's being like pretty judgy about

474
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: quite a bit of it in a way that whatever,

475
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 3: we'll get there. But he's like, wow, the lyrics to

476
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: your songs also are like buh, and she's like, yeah,

477
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: I wish I could write songs with more meaning full lyrics,

478
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 3: and he's like, okay, do it, and she's like, look

479
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: at my box full of basically like just a little

480
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 3: handwritten notes of lyrics that have come to her, which

481
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 3: honestly sharing that with anyone else brave. I would not.

482
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 3: That's just me. That would be like someone like looking

483
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: through my joke notebook. God, wouldn't wouldn't be me, wouldn't

484
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: be sharing that.

485
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gotta share a clean dressed yeah something if

486
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 4: someone's interested.

487
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: In seriously that maybe a little sacks hey. I was

488
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: like wow, Like Nodi is really like needing connection with

489
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: someone so much that she'll like take a risk and

490
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: show something that vulnerable with like objectively. At this point

491
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: in the movie, some guy.

492
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: Right, And then also Kaz is like what about Kid

493
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 3: Culprit And she's like, yeah, he's kind of my boyfriend

494
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 3: and he's like, okay, what about us. So then Nony

495
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: breaks up with kid Culprit and he seems very chill

496
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: about it, and they still have a working relationship.

497
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 4: He does say a phrase you use the press, don't

498
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 4: let the press use you, right, Yeah, so that's for

499
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: like a later see that at the same time, like yeah,

500
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 4: the later scene. Still it confuses me, and that it

501
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 4: doesn't confuse me, But we'll, I know, we keep saying

502
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 4: we'll get to that. It's there's so much, like.

503
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: So there's so much.

504
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, anyway, that will kind of come to a

505
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: head in a moment. But first, Noni does a sexy

506
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 3: little surprise for kaz by blindfolding him and taking him

507
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 3: on a private jet because he's never been on a

508
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: plane before.

509
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: I was weirdly like not comfortable with her behavior. Let

510
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: me off, let me off the plate, and she's like no, no, babe.

511
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, babe, and then she like is.

512
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 3: Ignoring all of his like very obvious signals that he's

513
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 3: very uncomfortable and then has sex with him.

514
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a consent issue, and it's a like basic

515
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: human safety issue.

516
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: I was really grossed up by that.

517
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm defending Officer Kazam in this, but like,

518
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 2: let him off the plane, absolutely, let him off the plane.

519
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah sure, Yeah. And then Nannie does a live performance backstage,

520
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: though her mom Macy is like, hey, kaz you're not

521
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 3: good for my daughter because every time people see you together,

522
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: they see her on that balcony you know who's better

523
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: for her is Kid Cuddy or whatever?

524
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 4: Kid Culprit.

525
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: I know that's how you know Minnie Driver is a

526
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: villain where she's like, you know, who'd be a great

527
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: boyfriend for you? Machine Gun Kelly. You're like, no good

528
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: parent would choose that for their child. Right.

529
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, though, on stage at this performance, there's this situation

530
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: where the choreography was supposed to be that she was

531
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 3: gonna remove her jacket during the performance, she decides to

532
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 3: keep it on. Kid Culprit is then like trying to

533
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: like forcibly rem He's also becoming very violent and like

534
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: rapee on stage, and then he takes the mic and

535
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: he's just like, you know, hey, everyone, she didn't break

536
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: up with me. I broke up with her, and that's

537
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: why she tried to jump off the balcony. It's really disgusting.

538
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 3: And then a fight breaks out between Kaz and Kid Culprit.

539
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: So Danny Glover is disappointed in Kaz for jeopardizing his

540
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: political career.

541
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 4: Sounding like every black dad in the world, So you

542
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 4: a thug now.

543
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: And then Macy's also disappointed in Nony for reasons I'm

544
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,719
Speaker 3: not even sure what is happening.

545
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 4: There, but she calls her a bloody cliche and it

546
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 4: sort of goes back to like what she said earlier

547
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 4: about like, well, listen, Britney Spears and Kanye West still

548
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: had these stunts that they came out with albums like

549
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 4: what makes Nony any different?

550
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: M Yeah right.

551
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: Anyway, all this is getting to Nony and she has

552
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: a breakdown. Kaz comforts her and then he takes her

553
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: on this like relaxing getaway to Mexico.

554
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: Oh.

555
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: Then we get a huge like it's like a montage.

556
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: It is like a five minute montage of them eating

557
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 2: one food, getting one kiss. You're just like, yeah, Vibe Vibe,

558
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: it's a ViBe's montage. They're on the beach.

559
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: You might even say, she's going beyond the lights. Wow,

560
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 3: all of those flashing paparazzi photos, all the lights, camera.

561
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 2: Action, all the lights, camera Jackson remember him?

562
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: No, but we feel it.

563
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: We have to keep going.

564
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 4: The movie was originally titled Blackbird, and then it got

565
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: changed to Beyond the Lights.

566
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, right, Which I wonder what that what the

567
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: reasoning was on that, because I think Blackbird makes way

568
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: worse since it feels like more a tune to what

569
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: the clear like to what the movie is. And also

570
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: she sings this song fifty times beyond the lights. They

571
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: don't say that once in the movie. Therefore, how could

572
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: it be the title?

573
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: How could it be the title? Okay, So they're doing

574
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: all this stuff, and then there's a scene where they

575
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 3: sing karaoke and this is one of the times that

576
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: Noni sings Blackbird, just like she did when she was

577
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: a kid at the talent contest. But someone has recorded

578
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: her singing this and they've posted it on the internet.

579
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: So Macy figures out where Nonie is, as does the paparazzi,

580
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: so they all kind of like crash her quiet get away,

581
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: and Noni and her mom seem to have a tender

582
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 3: moment for once, and then Macy's like, okay, back to

583
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: the grind, and Noni's like, okay, let's go. But Kaz

584
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: is like, no, things are just gonna go back to

585
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: the way they were, which was like very toxic for you.

586
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 4: He also sounds really judgy, Yeah, yeah, shaming her.

587
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: He's judging her, and he's also like, I know what's

588
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: best for you, and I'm like, surely the plot won't

589
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: enforce this reality, but.

590
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: What it does, so yeah, they like argue, and then

591
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: he breaks up with her. So Noni and Kaz returned

592
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 3: to La but separately, and Noni with this video of

593
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: her singing Blackbird, fans are seeing this new side of her.

594
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: So she wants to record a new song for the

595
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: upcoming album, something that she writes because she's like, I

596
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: have something to say and people seem to want to

597
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 3: hear it, and it seems like her mom advocates for

598
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 3: her in a meeting with the label, but it turns

599
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: out that Macy was full of shit. So Noni confronts

600
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 3: Macy about how she controlled every aspect of Nonie's life

601
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: and career and how she turned her into this like

602
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: sexy product to be sold and consumed, and then Noni

603
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: fires Macy as her manager.

604
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: Oh it is like yeah, the also like twenty fourteen,

605
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: I feel like it was a high for like Mamager representation.

606
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: We had like the Kardashians approaching their peak. I was like, wow,

607
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: interesting putting a Mamager character. Also very mid twenty ten's

608
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:22,919
Speaker 2: decision firing the Mamager awesome. Yeah.

609
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Kaz is gearing up to announce his candidacy, as

610
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 3: I think he's going to be running for city council

611
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: person in La cool.

612
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: That's what we need, another cop on city council.

613
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, seriously. Nony approaches him to try to make up,

614
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: but he brushes her off, saying that what they had

615
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 3: started on a lie, so it was never going to work.

616
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 2: And again it's just like oh right. A fundamental part

617
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 2: of Officer Kazam is that he values the truth.

618
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: I just I don't know, because politicians are famously obsessed

619
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: with telling the truth.

620
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 4: Right.

621
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: The LAPD really gets away with a lot in this movie,

622
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: The famously honest laped right.

623
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: Okay, So then Noni goes on TV. Her label wants

624
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 3: her to dispel the myth that she attempted suicide once

625
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: and for all, but instead she tells the truth. She

626
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: says that she was attempting suicide and she realized that

627
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: she had to stop trying to be someone who she

628
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: wasn't and now she's living her authentic life.

629
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: This is where that Don Lemons becomes integral to the plot,

630
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: right right.

631
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 3: Kaz sees this interview and he's proud that she finally

632
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: is telling the truth. Then Noni does a concert in

633
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 3: the UK where she performs a song that she wrote,

634
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: which pays homage to Nina Simone's Blackbird, and then Kaz

635
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 3: shows up and he's like, hey, I love you, by

636
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: the way, and she's like, cool, I love you too,

637
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 3: and that's how the movie ends. So let's take a

638
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: quick break and we will come back to discuss.

639
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 2: And we're back, okay. Yeah, I mean, is there anywhere

640
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: that jumps out to you for a starting point here?

641
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, no pressure.

642
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 4: No, like, it's like so much like. Yeah, And I

643
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: do feel like we need to talk specifically about Nathan

644
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 4: Parker because because his personal life is is relevant to

645
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 4: the movie.

646
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, Nate Parker, if you don't remember, this was

647
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: a huge point of discussion, I believe five ish years

648
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: ago now, was a prominent actor and filmmaker who had

649
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: assaulted and raped a student while in college in the

650
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 2: late nineties early two thousands, and was found guilty in

651
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: the early two thousands of having done this. As we

652
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: see very often, this resulted in a small settlement for

653
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: the survivor and a slap on the wrist for Nate Parker. Essentially,

654
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: he moved schools and went on to obviously thrive significantly.

655
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: This story became I think it became a huge cultural

656
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: talking point in twenty nineteen, although the information was always available,

657
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: but it became a cultural talking point post me too,

658
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 2: essentially after he had been a working filmmaker for some time,

659
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 2: and it also came out. I don't remember the exact

660
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: timeline of this, but it was found out when it

661
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: became a discussion point that the person he had raped

662
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: had taken their own life several.

663
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 4: Years before, in twenty twelve.

664
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, in twenty yeah, and like right, maybe maybe I'm

665
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: getting the timeline wrong, and this was coming, this was

666
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: happening when his birth of the twenty.

667
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: Became Yeah, okay, now twenty sixteen, Yeah.

668
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's actually a little bit ahead of the

669
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: me too movement. Wow, I can't believe it was that

670
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: long ago, God time, but yes, that that the woman

671
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: he dessaulted had taken her own life back in twenty twelve.

672
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: This did absolutely impact his career, but I feel like

673
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: it has sort of fallen out of the conversation to

674
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: the point where, honestly, when I it took me a

675
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: second tilt for my brain to catch up. I was like, oh,

676
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: that's Nate Parker, and oh oh oh, like there and

677
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: particularly with the subject matter of this movie. His presence

678
00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: is like really difficult to stomach in context that he

679
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 2: is the one who is I mean, I take issue

680
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 2: with the concept of like his being the rescuer in

681
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 2: the first place, but given the actor and his history,

682
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: like it's just.

683
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 3: It's gross, horrifying. And I mean the relationship between his

684
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 3: character and Noni plays out in a way that I

685
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: find very unsettling as well. I mean, like we mentioned,

686
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: there are some Titanic parallels. The beginning of their relationship

687
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 3: feels very like Jack and Rose coded. Where So, for example,

688
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 3: Noni and Rose, they start off the movie in a

689
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 3: relationship with a shitty, rich white guy. Both women feel

690
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 3: intense pressure from society and from their mothers to stay

691
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: with this guy. Both women attempt suicide. Then, in both cases,

692
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: a man who comes from more humble beginnings intervenes in

693
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 3: her suicide attempt and saves her. There's encouragement in both

694
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: stories to lie that this was a suicide attempt. The

695
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 3: man who intervened will go on to become the woman's

696
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: new boyfriend, and he will help the woman escape that

697
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 3: world that she felt trapped in and break free from

698
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 3: all the pressure and live a new, more authentic life.

699
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 3: So very, very just titanic these stuff happening here, even

700
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 3: some of the dialogue where Rose says at one point,

701
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm standing in the middle of a

702
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 3: crowded room screaming at the top of my lungs and

703
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 3: no one even looks up and none he says, I

704
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: feel like I'm suffocating in the middle of the street

705
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 3: and no one can see me dying.

706
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: And you're like, it's an updated yes, But I just

707
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: wanted to take it back for a second because I'm

708
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: glad that you brought up Nate Parker's criminal history and

709
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: history of assaulting women. I guess what, going into this

710
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: viewing and knowing that, how does that inform how the

711
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: subject matter is treated in the movie? Does it make

712
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: a difference for you. I'm just curious on your take

713
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 2: on that.

714
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like Gudo. Prince Midwood has always like like

715
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 4: in like previous interviews and like previous commentary and stuff,

716
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 4: for like The Secret Life of Bees, Like she'd always

717
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 4: talk about like how he was such a nice guy

718
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 4: and like he was very respectful of like the love

719
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 4: interest he was paired with in her films. But it's

720
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 4: just very disappointing because like these consensual interactions does not

721
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 4: erase the huge, huge amount of lack of consent in

722
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 4: two thousand and one when he was at Penn State.

723
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 4: And it's also quite heartbreaking because like he gets to

724
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 4: make movies again, and you have these actors and filmmakers

725
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 4: going like, oh, he's he's learned his lesson, like he's

726
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 4: going through a lot of learning and da da da,

727
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 4: and it's just so sad and it's so weird seeing

728
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 4: like the concert scene where kid culprit is is assaulting

729
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 4: Nony and then Nate Parker's character is framed as the

730
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 4: hero in that situation and it's very unsettling to watch.

731
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 4: And and also it also doesn't help that like another way,

732
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 4: like kid Culprit's character is sort of foreshadowing like in

733
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 4: the in like the Sexy music video in the beginning,

734
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 4: he's he's like strangling Nony a little bit, And I

735
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 4: just have so many questions around, like how were you

736
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 4: directed in this? And also like Judah Prince Bithewood, like

737
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 4: I have not agreed with how she likes to place

738
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: her actors in situations without their permission in order to

739
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 4: get them in the role like she she plays Jennifer

740
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 4: Hudson in a store where white men are calling her

741
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 4: the Edward in order to prepare her for the Secret

742
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 4: Life of Bees and then for Beyond the Lights. She

743
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 4: placed Googa Babathra in Nate Parker in this situation where

744
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 4: paparazzi show up and he has to take care of

745
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 4: her unexpectedly.

746
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 2: And also like, I don't know, like, given Nate Parker's history,

747
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, don't leave him alone with cugoo, right, But yeah,

748
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: I saw that referenced in a Vulture interview that she

749
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: did around the release of this movie, and it was like,

750
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 2: I honestly like, I was surprised. I wonder if she

751
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: still does stuff like that. I guess I don't know

752
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: how you would do that for the woman King, But

753
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 2: it felt almost like Blair Witch Project production approaches, where

754
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: it's like, I'm just gonna leave you in the woods.

755
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: Won't that be fun? Yeah? I mean, thank you for

756
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 2: your insight on that. And I'm realizing that the reason

757
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: that I thought this had taken place in twenty nineteen

758
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,439
Speaker 2: is because that's the last time he directed a movie. Yep,

759
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: so he has since in fact directed movies since this

760
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 2: became a publicly known story and he's currently filming another one.

761
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: So if you you know, here's your daily reminder that

762
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 2: cancelation isn't a thing, right, Yeah, but I thought it was.

763
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: I don't know. I as far as the way suicidality

764
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: and mental health is treated in this movie, it was

765
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 2: a little it was like all over the place for

766
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: me where I think that, like, this movie does have

767
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: something to say about how I mean, it felt like

768
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,479
Speaker 2: in line with a lot of pop stars stories of

769
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 2: how extremely constrictive and controlled Nonie's life is, and how

770
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: that pressure and being forced in all these directions she

771
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 2: doesn't want to go in, it has an extreme adverse

772
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 2: effect on her mental health to the point where she's

773
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 2: driven to this place. I guess I wish that the

774
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: it's a romance movie, so this was never gonna happen.

775
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: I just wish it had spent a little more time

776
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 2: analyzing that. It felt like the way that that ends

777
00:45:58,480 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: up being analyzed asn't a.

778
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 5: Pretty surfacy kind of way that allows a lot of

779
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 5: the abusive people kind of off the hook a little bit.

780
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: I was surprised. I was. I think that if this

781
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 2: movie was made today, NONI would more likely cut her

782
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: mom out of her life and not just out of

783
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: her business. I felt like Macie maybe got off a

784
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: little easy, but that's that's just my opinion.

785
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: I guess I got the impression that she did cut

786
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 3: her out of her life because like she's not.

787
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 2: Or I guess what I've more referred to as like

788
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 2: how the neighbor or hairstylist that she grew up near

789
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: was sort of encouraging her, like your mom loves you,

790
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 2: she'd love to see you sometime. Like it just felt

791
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: like that door was not completely closed. I don't know.

792
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 3: My big concern about it is something we were starting

793
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: to touch on, which is to me an implication that

794
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: she is almost cured of her suicidal ideation because of

795
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: the romance of a man. I also thought, and you know,

796
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: you might feel different ways about this, but we never

797
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 3: see her getting or seeking actual medical help or like

798
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 3: getting help from mental health professionals.

799
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: She only mentioned but she says that she says this,

800
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 2: but I'm getting help. You're like, don't know if that's

801
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: useful to know what that means?

802
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 3: Right, Like, what does that mean? Is that even true?

803
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: And it would have been so helpful because you know,

804
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 3: there's still so much stigma around therapy and mental health

805
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: in general. It was even worse ten years ago when

806
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 3: this movie came out. It would have been very nice

807
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: to see a character seeking and getting that help with

808
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: her mental health on screen. The movie just glosses over

809
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: it and basically just implies, you know, she was cured

810
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: of this speak and it's the same thing that Titanic does. Really,

811
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 3: she's cured of her suicidal ideation because this man helps

812
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 3: to set her free. And I don't like that implication.

813
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 4: There's there's an interview where Regina Prince Begwood is like, yeah,

814
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't want to make a film where

815
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 4: it just looks like she's saved by a man and

816
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 4: it's like, well, well you did you did for him? Like,

817
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: and she and she had talked about like if I

818
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 4: wanted to take a more realistic approach, like it would

819
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 4: have been a thing where Kas died on the job

820
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 4: and Nony lost him through that way, and I'm like,

821
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 4: like you, like like I would have been totally fine

822
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 4: with like their narrative ending when like Nony comes to

823
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 4: his house and is like thanks and like and yeah,

824
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,439
Speaker 4: he's he's judging when he's all like this start line,

825
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 4: But like I've I totally would have been fine with

826
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 4: just ending it a breakup and she continues to thrive

827
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 4: in her music career without him. That's what I would

828
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 4: have loved so much better.

829
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's just I totally agree with with your

830
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: beds Nay. Like I do feel like in the last

831
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: half hour of the movie, she becomes more self motivated

832
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: and is starting to make her own choices. But it

833
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: starts very late in the movie for me, Like it

834
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: I think after they get back from the trip in Mexico,

835
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: that is, that's sort of the first time in the

836
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: movie that I can think of that you see Nony

837
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: start to make her own choices. They're not all good choices,

838
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: but they're choices, right because because i Am is telling her like,

839
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: don't go back with your mom, and she's like, well

840
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: I want to, and like deviates from what she's being

841
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: told to do. But prior to that, it's like she

842
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: is being shepherded in all these ways, which I know

843
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: is consistent with the character because how she's set up

844
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 2: her life is extremely controlled. But in terms of like

845
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 2: telling this story, I sort of wanted to see her.

846
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, I just don't feel like I

847
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 2: know her as well as the movie is telling me

848
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: that I know. And because of like the context and

849
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: tone of the movie, you could have a therapist in

850
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: this movie easily and it would be helpful as a

851
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 2: viewer to understand. And by the time we learn more

852
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: about her childhood outside of the opening scene, it almost

853
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: feels like kind of too late to get into because

854
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: I think that, like Macy is behaving cartoon villain the

855
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: entire movie, and like is I think that that is,

856
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: Like we don't get a lot of movies about mothers

857
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: and daughters period, much less a mother with a biracial daughter. Like,

858
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things happening in this movie that

859
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 2: you don't often see, but I feel like it takes

860
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 2: so late in the movie to underst I don't know.

861
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: I just felt like there were things I was missing

862
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 2: that the movie thought I had the whole time, and

863
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 2: it fills in that space that I would like to

864
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: know about, and like the opportunity this movie has to

865
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: comment on stardom and it fills it up with this

866
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 2: like love story with a cop that I was not

867
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 2: really rooting for it at any point I kept wanting, like,

868
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: no need to like break out on her own, go

869
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: to Mexico by yourself, meet someone in Mexico like it,

870
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 2: just because even the trip was like Kaz's idea and

871
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: it's all his idea, and I just don't like, yeah

872
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 2: it I think that, you know, he certainly poses less

873
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: of an immediate exploitational harm to her than her mother does.

874
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 2: But it does feel like going from one set of

875
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 2: controlling hands to another exactly in a way that doesn't

876
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 2: really feel challenged by the movie and makes me feel

877
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 2: for NONI I'm like, she's got a like clean house completely,

878
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 2: including the boyfriend. It would feel.

879
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 3: Good, especially because he's also the one that kind of

880
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: suggests Slash gives her the idea sort of that she

881
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 3: should write her own songs, And.

882
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, how is that his idea?

883
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 3: How is it his idea?

884
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: What it just I feel like, yeah, there's I think

885
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 2: there's a real important and like, I like showing it

886
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: makes sense to me that Nody's character would be fragile

887
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 2: in many ways, and I think, you know, like when

888
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: we've talked about this on the show a million times,

889
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: how women and fems when they're put in lead roles.

890
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: I think the over correction of she's, you know, girl

891
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: bossing around in a way that like doesn't really square

892
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: with how she was raised, in what she's experienced, but

893
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: it still feels like it. She doesn't have enough agency

894
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: to the point where she's a global pop star and

895
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: it has never occurred to her to write her own

896
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: song and she has to be told by an LAPD

897
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: officer named Kazam, and like, I just don't buy it.

898
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: I don't like that as a plot point. I don't

899
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: like it.

900
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 4: I wish she had more interactions with other women and

901
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 4: fems in the industry. Like all we get is her

902
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 4: walking past Shaka Khana Shaka Khan going I like your hair,

903
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 4: and that's all that's all we get.

904
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: Which is delightful, But we're like, I want more, I

905
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:05,280
Speaker 2: want more.

906
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, why doesn't she have any friends?

907
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: I feel like you could explain that away by like

908
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 2: the level of control her mom house. But even like

909
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: a fellow pop star, like there's I don't know even

910
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 2: even uh extremely sheltered and controlled pop stars. No other

911
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: sheltered and controlled pop.

912
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 3: Stars they could commiserate about that.

913
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 2: They collaborate all the time, exactly, and that's a way

914
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 2: more interesting story. I can't get past the cop thing.

915
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 2: I just like it's so difficult, Like could he could be?

916
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: I it like even if it bugs me less if

917
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 2: he's just an aspiring politician and I know that, Like again,

918
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 2: there's no I will never understand why that was the decision,

919
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 2: but I like they share this common theme that their

920
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 2: lives are predetermined, and through this relationship they need to

921
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 2: bust out of these expectations that their parents have for

922
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 2: them and how their lives should go. I get that

923
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 2: that is there like parallel. I don't understand why he

924
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 2: has to be a cap.

925
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 3: My guess is that as this story was being crafted,

926
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 3: it was like, well, under what circumstances would she get saved?

927
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 3: Because that seemed to be like writer director Gina Prince

928
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 3: Bythewood wanted that to be the kind of impetus for

929
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 3: this relationship to form. So it's like, Okay, well someone

930
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 3: needs to save her. Who would save her? A cop

931
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 3: that's kind of acting as a bodyguard. Yeah, that makes sense.

932
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, no, it doesn't have to be

933
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: that number one. It doesn't have to be any man

934
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 3: who saved you or intervenes in some kind of you know, violence,

935
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 3: whether it's self inflicted or otherwise, you don't need to

936
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: fall in love with them. But so many movies present

937
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: that as like, well, this man saved this woman, so

938
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: obviously she's gonna end up with him. That doesn't have

939
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 3: to be the case. I don't you know. I respect

940
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 3: Gina Prince Bythewood as a filmmaker, and of course, my

941
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,399
Speaker 3: guess is just like tropes beget tropes, she set out

942
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 3: to write a love story. I was watching an interview

943
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 3: with Variety that she was giving, and she said that

944
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 3: she wanted to write a love story and that she

945
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 3: was interested in what was going on in the music

946
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 3: industry at the time, especially in regards to how it

947
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 3: treats women. And she's like, okay, I can marry these

948
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 3: two ideas together. That's my story. And so she set

949
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 3: out specifically to write a love story. And you know

950
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 3: when filmmakers write stories, they're like, okay, how do these go?

951
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: Like what how does a movie love story go? And

952
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: my guess is just you know, you're inspired by previous

953
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 3: similar movies and stories, and then we ended up with this.

954
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't mean to like completely drag her.

955
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 4: No, no, no, especially.

956
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: Because it's like where I don't know, it's like where

957
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 2: we live and and I don't know even if the

958
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: cops stuff was more in the background than it is,

959
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 2: but it goes out of the way to show you

960
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 2: how good he is in the context of his job,

961
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: for sure. Like, especially the domestic violence thing really bothered me.

962
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: It was really frustrating. Yeah, that there's this didn't even

963
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: come up in the recap really because it's not necessary.

964
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: But there there's two different times where you see there's

965
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: a domestic violence situation and I couldn't tell what neighborhood

966
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: it was supposed to be, but in a low income

967
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 2: neighbor neighborhood in La that officer Kazam is sent to

968
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 2: and he solves the problems, which like the cops and

969
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: specifically the LAPD famously do not do. And it's like

970
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 2: they cut to this story twice.

971
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 4: And the second time he's not in uniform. It's like,

972
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 4: can you like liability for that?

973
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 3: Right? He's not on duty. Yeah, there's the scene where

974
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 3: he's trying to basically convince the local pastors to like

975
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 3: endorse his political candidacy and he's talking about, you know, oh,

976
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: the violence in this community, and if I am elected,

977
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: I'll turn it all around. But he's referring to like

978
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 3: the violence you see on screen, is this like one

979
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 3: case of domestic violence, which of course is you know,

980
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 3: very real and very serious. But again, cops historically don't

981
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 3: respond well to those situations. And there's no mention if

982
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 3: he's talking about violence, there's no mention of police brutality,

983
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: the targets black and brown people. The movie's just general

984
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,960
Speaker 3: opinion of cops is like no, no, no, they're the

985
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 3: good guys. They're serving and protecting and they're the heroes

986
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: and then they're gonna do the right thing every time, right.

987
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting that, like I get I

988
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it at this point, but

989
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 2: if we're like talking the parallels between the two characters

990
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: who are in they're both being pushed by these institutions

991
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: to do things that they don't want to do. But

992
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 2: like what its presented with on Officer Kazam's side is

993
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 2: that he's pushed to be a politician, and it's the

994
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 2: politician system that is bad. But if he just wants

995
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: to be a cop, that's fine. Where it's like if

996
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: she doesn't like and she just wants to be a

997
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: singer songwriter, And I was like, we just like singer

998
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 2: songwriter and LAPD officer. It's not the same thing. I

999
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: just I don't know, Like obviously you know, like I

1000
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 2: like that, you know the system that is trying to

1001
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: push him into uh basically you know, like doing the

1002
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: politician thing and using all of the connections and altering

1003
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 2: how you behave and what you say and what you

1004
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 2: do to serve getting a position that is like all

1005
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: very well taken and mirrors no Need's experience as well.

1006
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 2: But I don't know, And that's all I'll say about it.

1007
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 2: But the I don't know. I kept trying to be

1008
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 2: like shifting at my head to be like he's a

1009
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 2: security guard basically, he's basically a bodyguard. But the movie

1010
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 2: does not let you do that. It keeps big like

1011
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 2: and he is great at this job that is noble

1012
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: and effective. And I don't know, very twenty fourteen, And

1013
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 2: that's I guess I'll say about it.

1014
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, something I think the movie handles better is the

1015
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 3: examination of the sexualization and commodification of entertainers in general,

1016
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: but especially women and fans of their artistic talent and

1017
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 3: of their bodies to be clear, As we've always said

1018
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 3: on the show, we don't have a problem with an

1019
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 3: entertainer or any adult person being sexy, wearing sexy clothes,

1020
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 3: showing skin. I sound so old, making art about sex

1021
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff.

1022
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 2: Who's machine gun?

1023
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 4: Kelly and Gina Prince Bishy talks about that in interviews too,

1024
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 4: where she said, like, I do believe there are there

1025
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 4: are pop stars who are genuine about like toning their sexuality,

1026
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 4: and she's like, I just take issue with like those

1027
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 4: who are pressured into it when they don't need.

1028
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: To be exactly.

1029
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 3: It's all about, like, is the sexiness on the artists' terms?

1030
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 3: Are they consenting to this image that's being presented of them?

1031
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: Are they being given agency and choice in the matter,

1032
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 3: or is it being foisted on them? And as we

1033
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 3: learn throughout the movie, this like sex symbol image for

1034
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 3: Nony was foisted on her by her mother, by her mom,

1035
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: by her record label. Yeah, and she desperately wants to

1036
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 3: be seen the way that she wants to be seen,

1037
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 3: not how the music industry wants to see her. And

1038
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: she wants to you know, be able to for the

1039
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 3: artist slash musician side of her to be more authentic

1040
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 3: to who she is, but she can't because of all

1041
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 3: the pressure that's coming at her from all these directions,

1042
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 3: and it's all wearing on her so much, this lack

1043
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 3: of autonomy and agency and every thing that she and

1044
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 3: she feels so trapped by it that it leads her

1045
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 3: to attempt suicide. And I think that's pretty effective commentary

1046
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 3: on just the music industry and the media and the

1047
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 3: way that you know, record labels and paparazzi and how

1048
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 3: all of that exploits artists and musicians and again her

1049
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 3: mom and the response she gets from fans on social media,

1050
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 3: like there's just so much weighing on her. Yeah, And

1051
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 3: I thought that was handled pretty well.

1052
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1053
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 4: I liked how they involved when it came to like

1054
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 4: the movie making process. They involve people who who have

1055
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 4: worked with pop stars that such the choreographer Lorienne Gibson,

1056
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 4: who's the inspiration behind the movie Honey really.

1057
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my god, Jessica Alba.

1058
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 4: She plays Jessica Alba's rival, even though like, looking back

1059
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 4: on it, I'm like, you could you just you deserve

1060
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 4: to play you in your own movie, Like Jessica album

1061
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 4: was chosen to play you. That for me, I'm like,

1062
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 4: oh that that sucks. That is not non black person

1063
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 4: gets to play you in a boom about you. But anyways,

1064
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 4: between conversations between the choreographer and the director, like the

1065
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 4: word that they said kept coming up was the word ratchet,

1066
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 4: which made me laugh. As far as like being as

1067
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 4: intentional with realistic aspects of the of like choreography as possible,

1068
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 4: which I thought was very cool. And at the same

1069
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 4: time though it's like the lyrics are so oft the nose,

1070
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 4: like treat me like your object.

1071
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 2: Right, there's I love I love songs written to make

1072
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 2: a point in a movie because they're they're so uncanny Valley,

1073
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: they're like stick your face in it, and you're like, okay,

1074
01:02:54,600 --> 01:03:00,040
Speaker 2: it's not quite giving a song that exists, but but

1075
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: I see where you're point. Yeah. I thought that the

1076
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: way that those things were treated felt like to be

1077
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 2: like the strength of the movie and like when I

1078
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: wish there'd been more of like I would have happily

1079
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 2: swapped out the majority of the romance for another pop

1080
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 2: star character to play off of, or someone within the industry,

1081
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 2: because it felt like these good points were made about

1082
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: the industry, but they were all made by like this

1083
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 2: outside party quote unquote every man in a way that

1084
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 2: felt like it would be better illustrated to just like

1085
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: it's a lot of telling where you could have had

1086
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 2: a lot of showing, but you still get like a

1087
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 2: lot of interesting things that I feel like have aged

1088
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 2: very well as information around the lives of pop stars

1089
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: that we grew up with continued to come out, like

1090
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 2: she's emotionally abused by a stage parent from a very

1091
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 2: young age and is clearly profited on by a stage

1092
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 2: parent who does not have her best interested at heart.

1093
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: That's a very common thing. I thought that like, also

1094
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 2: like the little parts of after she attempts suicide, she

1095
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 2: is not only told that she needs to walk it

1096
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 2: back to save her career, she also has to actively

1097
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: and repeatedly apologize to her fans. And the way that

1098
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 2: it happens it feels like pretty in step with what

1099
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 2: happened in the mid twenty tens. I feel like the

1100
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 2: more there it would be an even more cynical approach now.

1101
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: But then it's like, I, you know, excessive drinking is

1102
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: no joke, kids, and I apologize, and like you see

1103
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: pop stars doing that today with people who have young

1104
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 2: fan bases, if they display humanity in any way, or

1105
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 2: if they're like a person will into their twenties or

1106
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 2: thirties that are like having a night out, they have

1107
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 2: to apologize to children. And it's just like this very

1108
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 2: very twisted thing and the way I mean it's a

1109
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 2: little on the noes how she's criticized by the media,

1110
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 2: because it's also clear that like Gail King is having

1111
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 2: fun doing this fake interview, but it felt close enough

1112
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 2: to reality. The record store exactly, the record label executives.

1113
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 2: Maybe felt a little over the top cartoon villain to me,

1114
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 2: but nobody is supposed to be the girl every guy

1115
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 2: wants to be like that. You're just it is a

1116
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: little over it, but but the spirit of it felt

1117
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 2: true of like how controlled her life had to be

1118
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 2: and the way that I mean, I think especially and

1119
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 2: there's been a fair amount of public conversation about this,

1120
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 2: about how black women in entertainment are treated and discarded,

1121
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 2: where you know, it's it feels clear in the writing,

1122
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 2: the performance, and the story that Noni is scaling an

1123
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 2: even steeper hill in terms of how she has to

1124
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 2: conduct herself to be quote unquote respected as a pop star,

1125
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 2: which I feel comes out really clearly in the through

1126
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 2: line about her hair and like a big turning point

1127
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 2: in her character story, as when she takes out the lavender,

1128
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: the lavender weave that she's been wearing for most of

1129
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,720
Speaker 2: the movie when they're on vacation in Mexico and she

1130
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 2: starts just having natural hair, and that's like a big

1131
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 2: I feel like that was the churning point for me

1132
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: where I was like, I started to feel really invested.

1133
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: But she's so helpless for so much of the.

1134
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 3: Movie in a way that's like you understand why she

1135
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 3: feels helpless, and you know, we know that she feels

1136
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 3: trapped and she doesn't have the autonomy and agency that

1137
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 3: she wants, but also the movie rights her in certain

1138
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 3: ways that she doesn't.

1139
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1140
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 3: It's this complicated thing, and I don't want to sound

1141
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 3: like I'm victim blaming, where like, oh, why didn't she

1142
01:06:47,040 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 3: just advocate for herself all the time, Like that's a

1143
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 3: very difficult thing to do when you're so repressed by

1144
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 3: everyone around you, you don't have the ability to do

1145
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 3: that a lot of the time.

1146
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 2: But I don't know, So I doesn't think it's more

1147
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: the like because I agree, And I don't mean to

1148
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 2: sound like I'm like, well, why doesn't she just I

1149
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 2: think that the thing for me is more like it

1150
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 2: feels like the suggestion is that cop boyfriend is the solution,

1151
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 2: right or right, and it suggests and that at that

1152
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 2: point it's been heavily suggested that that is the solution

1153
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 2: for over an hour and.

1154
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yes, I uh just wanted to touch a little

1155
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 3: bit more on the relationship between Noni and her mother,

1156
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 3: where we see the pressure that Macy puts on Noni

1157
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 3: from the time that she's a little kid, making her

1158
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 3: throw away her you know, runner up trophy, and then

1159
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 3: from that point on we see all the ways in

1160
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 3: which her mother controls Nonie's life or is complicit in

1161
01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 3: this like music industry false image of Noni, where we

1162
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 3: see things like after Nony's suicide attempt, Macy clearly doesn't

1163
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 3: know how to process this and responds with anger and

1164
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 3: disappointment rather than concern or compassion.

1165
01:08:16,280 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 4: Look at all you have, you have, you have nothing.

1166
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 3: Nothing to cry.

1167
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:21,719
Speaker 2: She's fucking awful.

1168
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1169
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we see Macy controlling what Nony eats. We see her.

1170
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 2: That I thought was really well doe like in terms

1171
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: of how subtle it was where there's a scene happening

1172
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 2: and she takes out the fried food yea and throws

1173
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 2: it at like just stuff, and Nony doesn't flinch. This

1174
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,600
Speaker 2: is clearly routine tappers, right. Yeah.

1175
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 3: We see that scene during a photo shoot where Nony

1176
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 3: is told to take off her top or her jacket

1177
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 3: and she's not wearing anything underneath, and she's visibly uncomfortable,

1178
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 3: but Macy's like, yeah, do it.

1179
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 4: Like yeah, and Macy even asks like can we get

1180
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 4: are you planning on doing a full body shot?

1181
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 3: Like yeah, right, right, right right. You know, you see

1182
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 3: Macy trying to control Nonie's romantic life and wants her

1183
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 3: to be with kid Culprit, which is also we learn

1184
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 3: that that was like a fabrication by the label, like

1185
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 3: oh they got together for press quote unquote, and then

1186
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 3: it seemed like it turned into something more real whatever

1187
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 3: that even means between in a relationship with a machine

1188
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 3: gun Kelly. But you know, Macy's trying to control that

1189
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 3: aspect of Nonie's life, just all these different things, and

1190
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 3: then like later on when Macy it seems like there's

1191
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 3: a tender moment between them and it seems like Macy

1192
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 3: is advocating for Nonie in the meeting with the label.

1193
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 3: Turns out it was all an act. It was just

1194
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 3: Macy doing the thing that she always does, which is

1195
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 3: manipulating and controlling. I do think that Macy cares for

1196
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 3: and loves her daughter, she just doesn't do it in

1197
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 3: a healthy way at all. She doesn't love and support

1198
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,839
Speaker 3: Noni the way that she needs to be love and supported,

1199
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 3: which is a very, you know, familiar thing for many people.

1200
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 3: That's what a lot of parent child relationships are like,

1201
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 3: or just what a lot of relationships are like in general.

1202
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 3: So I appreciated that it was I think a pretty

1203
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 3: realistic exploration of that dynamic where Macy is quote unquote

1204
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 3: there for Noni, but in the most toxic way imaginable

1205
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 3: and not having her best interests at heart, not because

1206
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 3: she's necessarily like inherently evil, she just does she And

1207
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 3: then we get the backstory that kind of informs a

1208
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 3: lot of this, where Macy had Noni when she was

1209
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: a teenager and she had no support system when she

1210
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:52,240
Speaker 3: was trying to raise her.

1211
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 2: Did y'all have I don't know. I guess again, I

1212
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 2: was as we were, is that scene was really interesting

1213
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: to me because it's the first scene that we don't

1214
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 2: see Macie being outwardly abusive. She is being emotionally manipulative, right, Yeah,

1215
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 2: but not in the aggressive way that we've kind of

1216
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,560
Speaker 2: gotten used to seeing her. I do kind of and

1217
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: I know that that sets up kind of the bait

1218
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 2: and switch of Noni. I don't blame Noni for going

1219
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 2: back with her mom, because it feels very clear that

1220
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 2: like she wants to believe the best in her mom

1221
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 2: in a way that seems really painful. I guess. I

1222
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,720
Speaker 2: just like I was trying to like get I was like,

1223
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 2: what is the utility of holding that story back from

1224
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: us for so long? Like, I don't know, I wonder

1225
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 2: if you view like how it affects the movie if

1226
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: that scene comes earlier. I didn't. I guess it felt

1227
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 2: like a twisted like it was presented like a not

1228
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: like a twist, But I just was I don't know,

1229
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 2: I don't feel one particular way about it. But I

1230
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 2: was like, it's interesting that that comes up so late

1231
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 2: in the movie, because it's like, part of what I'm

1232
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,800
Speaker 2: missing with Nonie's character is like an understanding of her

1233
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 2: outside of that first scene, Yeah, which is clear what

1234
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 2: the dynamic is, but it would have just been nice

1235
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 2: to know because it just helps you understand her better.

1236
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:08,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1237
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 4: I have so much to say about Macy, please okay,

1238
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 4: because what I appreciate about the hair scene in the beginning,

1239
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 4: she doesn't say do my daughter's hair. She says show me.

1240
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 4: She says, show me how to do my daughter's hair.

1241
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 4: And Gina Prince Mirkwood talks about like being adopted by

1242
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,959
Speaker 4: white parents and her white parents sacretary to the hairdresser,

1243
01:12:30,040 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 4: going like help, please help, And again I'm not I'm

1244
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 4: not saying this to excuse any of her behavior in

1245
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 4: the movie, but like witnessing her her black child, the

1246
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 4: only black child amongst an array of white girls and

1247
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,080
Speaker 4: very shiny outfits who are dancing or hula hooping the

1248
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 4: majority of the time, and that being prioritized over her

1249
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 4: over her daughter, like that having like a sense, like

1250
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,040
Speaker 4: a sense of valid like I said that anger is

1251
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,879
Speaker 4: as valid where where she's like that hula hooping that's bullshit.

1252
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 4: I actually like appreciated like she's yelling about that instead

1253
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 4: of yelling directly at her daughter, but then she does

1254
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 4: yell directly. I had at her daughter going like chuck

1255
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 4: it with the trophy and that's very sad, and I'm like.

1256
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 2: Sang it like oh it's I like that she's written

1257
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 2: to be so frustrating though, like sorry continue and yeah.

1258
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 4: So then you see her black daughter with like with

1259
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 4: like a weave that's straight hair, and like for the

1260
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:32,400
Speaker 4: scene in the kitchen, Nondy mentions a nose job, not

1261
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 4: just the weave. So so it's like, oh, like, so

1262
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 4: your white mom is continuing to tell you over the years,

1263
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 4: like here's how you make yourself more European for this

1264
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 4: music industry and like, and I think that's where like

1265
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 4: kid culprit comes in too, because like Big Sean was

1266
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 4: up for the part, but he didn't get it and

1267
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 4: he ended up like just having that short scene with

1268
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 4: Nony going like hey you good. And I have mixed

1269
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 4: feelings about it because because on one end, it's it's like

1270
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 4: I would have appreciated one with more talent in the role,

1271
01:14:02,439 --> 01:14:05,759
Speaker 4: but at the same time, like casting casting a white

1272
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,040
Speaker 4: rapper and a white mom choosing the white rapper for

1273
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 4: her biracial daughter sort of makes sense, especially like when

1274
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,600
Speaker 4: it comes to this white rapper garnering a lot of

1275
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,560
Speaker 4: success and it's like he is your key to success,

1276
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 4: and again not saying this at all to like excuse

1277
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 4: any of that behavior, and yet no falling in love

1278
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 4: with a with a black man, and then Macy going like,

1279
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 4: I don't trust.

1280
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 3: You, Frank, I trust the white guy. I want my

1281
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 3: daughter to pay with the white guy.

1282
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,719
Speaker 2: And again, you can't hit that point home more clearly

1283
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: than choosing machine Gun Kelly to be the white guy

1284
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 2: that you put your trust in. Yeah, that scene I

1285
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 2: thought was I was glad that we got a scene

1286
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 2: between Officer Kazam and Macy. I Again, it's like I

1287
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: wish that it wasn't more clear cut that it's like

1288
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 2: he is the right choice and she's the wrong choice,

1289
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 2: because it's I think there's an argument that they're may

1290
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 2: be both the wrong choice and exactly NONI needs to

1291
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 2: spend some time with herself and not in someone else's

1292
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 2: quote unquote clutches or whatever. But I yeah, I love

1293
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 2: that sort of analysis of the character where it's like

1294
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 2: she's she's really challenging, and I just don't think I've

1295
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: seen a lot of characters like her in movies before,

1296
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 2: and because and she's also objectively they're not shying away

1297
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 2: from the fact that she's an abusive parent, Like she's

1298
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 2: an abusive stage parent who fundamentally is willing to glaze

1299
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,400
Speaker 2: over what is good for her daughter by and justifying

1300
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 2: it with like a survival thing when they're clearly past

1301
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 2: the point of needing to be survival in mind, You're

1302
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 2: doing well, And I love, I really liked what Noni

1303
01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: says when she confronts her, Like makes the argument that is,

1304
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 2: it's like, so much of this is for you. It's

1305
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 2: not all for me in the way that you're presenting

1306
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: and in the way that I think we hear about

1307
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 2: a lot of stage parent stories of like I did

1308
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 2: this for you, I did this to protect you. And

1309
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 2: it's like she and NONI was like, I was telling

1310
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 2: you what I that this wasn't working. I forget the wording,

1311
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,680
Speaker 2: but like I was telling you something was wrong when

1312
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:23,200
Speaker 2: I was standing on that balcony and you yes. And

1313
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 2: Macy pressures her to say that nothing's wrong, because Macy

1314
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 2: cannot deal with the world in which something is wrong.

1315
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 2: And I can also see how a parent deludes themselves

1316
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 2: into needing to believe that to the detriment of their kid.

1317
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 2: I mean it's just I don't know. I still feel

1318
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 2: like Macy got off a little easy, but it's also

1319
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 2: like a dynamic that I haven't seen portrayed in movies,

1320
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 2: especially because we just so rarely get mother daughter dynamics

1321
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 2: in movies at all, and to see it and not

1322
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 2: have it be like a clean ending of like my

1323
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 2: mama is my life, which I feel like when we

1324
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,439
Speaker 2: do get mothers and daughters, it often goes that way.

1325
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 2: It's like not allowed to be messy or complicated, And

1326
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: I really like, I think Gina Prince Bidwood does this

1327
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,440
Speaker 2: across her work, is like not afraid to get into

1328
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:19,000
Speaker 2: a messy mother daughter scenario. I really appreciate that about her.

1329
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 3: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1330
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 4: Gonna check my notes, make sure got everything. At one point,

1331
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:36,759
Speaker 4: Kaz says to Nony when Nony chose the songwriting notes,

1332
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 4: he says, I've interacted with sea word able to seaword people,

1333
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,840
Speaker 4: and I can tell your your sea word and like

1334
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 4: she laughs it off, and I'm like, we're supposed to

1335
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 4: be rooting for this guy.

1336
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: What then?

1337
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 4: And then later when his dad says that sea word

1338
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 4: broad and he's like, don't talk about her like that.

1339
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 4: It's like, you talked about her like that, What are

1340
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:02,320
Speaker 4: you talking about to her face?

1341
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 3: Yeah? Imagine like showing the most vulnerable thing you've ever

1342
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,120
Speaker 3: put to paper, and like, you know, just like things

1343
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 3: about your feelings and even just showing anything you've written

1344
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 3: to someone if you're a writer is scary. And then

1345
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 3: he is like, wow, you seem yeah, ablest word and

1346
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,240
Speaker 3: she's like ha ha ha, and it's like, sir, just

1347
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 3: all the men in her life were horrible because again

1348
01:18:34,479 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 3: kid Culprit like.

1349
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the thing that grows me out the

1350
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 2: most about him outside of obviously the scene where he

1351
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 2: assaults her on national television, which again no ne needs

1352
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 2: to be rescued from anyways. This it's like the first

1353
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 2: scene that he's in and he tells her to keep

1354
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 2: it tight and her mom does not flinch. She's like, yep,

1355
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 2: no issue with this because her mom's also constantly policing

1356
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 2: her body and you're just like, yeah, nasty.

1357
01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 3: So the scene where Nony breaks up with kid Culprit,

1358
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 3: he's he seems like he handles it okay. He's like,

1359
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:13,679
Speaker 3: I won't shed a tear about it, but I thought

1360
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:16,600
Speaker 3: we had something good and she's like, we were just

1361
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 3: kind of hooking up, like nothing deeper was happening.

1362
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 2: But she's like, Mary, I loved I loved leave. Hearing

1363
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 2: it in the in a British accent too, like we

1364
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 2: would text in and then we were hitting it, and

1365
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:32,360
Speaker 2: then we would text it about hitting it. I was like, wow, Wow,

1366
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 2: it sounds so fancy when you say it like that.

1367
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 3: But then when we see kid Culprit again, you learn

1368
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,800
Speaker 3: that he did not handle that rejection well at all.

1369
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 3: His male ego is particularly fragile, and it was very shattered,

1370
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 3: to the point where he lashes out aggressively and violently

1371
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 3: and he sexual assaults her on stage in front of

1372
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 3: thousands of people, which her mother says nothing about as

1373
01:19:59,479 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 3: it's happened.

1374
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 2: My mother shames her afterwards and is like, well look

1375
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 2: what happened, as if. And I think that what she's

1376
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 2: implying there is like, because you broke up with him,

1377
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 2: this is the consequence, and you're just like fuck.

1378
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,920
Speaker 3: You, yeah, anything else.

1379
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,720
Speaker 4: I wish there was more focus on, like how sexism

1380
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 4: clearly affects Nony more than Kaz because like he like

1381
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 4: in his politician world, like he's fine because like you

1382
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 4: lose the pastors, but he gets the youth vote and

1383
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:36,120
Speaker 4: like not even putting into consideration how like Nony basically

1384
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 4: lost her job, like was dropped from the label, just

1385
01:20:40,439 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 4: to like get back on the label.

1386
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 2: But still like yeah, he's just on like an extended vacation.

1387
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 2: Like he's just like because he calls, He's like, hey,

1388
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 2: I'll be back soon, and you're like, his job is, yeah,

1389
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: his job is at no point is that risk? Really,

1390
01:20:56,280 --> 01:21:01,200
Speaker 2: he's just more no Danny Glover, Dad, I don't want that.

1391
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 2: And Danny Glover's like, oh, I should be in another

1392
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 2: Saw movie. That's how he reacts to most people in

1393
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 2: every movie said Saw. Yeah, He's like, you know, now

1394
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 2: that you say that, I really it's high time I'm

1395
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 2: in Saw eleven. Oh.

1396
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:25,440
Speaker 4: Only there's apparently like some deleted like set a dialogue

1397
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 4: where like Kaz tells nobody about the death of his mom,

1398
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 4: like where the director says that in an interview and

1399
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,440
Speaker 4: I'm like, what.

1400
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, they do like reference that in one Danny Glover

1401
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 2: scene where he's like, I don't want to be a

1402
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 2: heartbroken old man, and you're like, first time I'm hearing

1403
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 2: the mom is dead, So that makes sense. That that

1404
01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:53,599
Speaker 2: was reference at some other point this movie what.

1405
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 4: It's interesting, and she talks about how like it got

1406
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 4: scrapped because like working with her husband helps her. She

1407
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 4: says something along the lines of like, oh, working with

1408
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 4: my husband helps me like get rid of certain drafts

1409
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 4: that I don't need, as well as like highlighting what

1410
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,960
Speaker 4: love and respect could look like. And I don't want

1411
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,720
Speaker 4: to dig so much at Judah Prinsbythe's personal life. But

1412
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 4: at the same time, it's like, so I have questions

1413
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 4: because we have this black love story that is not good,

1414
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 4: and the black love story and love and basketball was

1415
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 4: also not good. And you've mentioned like your husband has

1416
01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 4: helped you with that, Like I just have so many

1417
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 4: follow up questions about like what what your ideal romance is.

1418
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 4: And I know that there was like conversations earlier about

1419
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 4: like tropes come from like other points of media and

1420
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 4: so on and so forth. At and at the same time,

1421
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,600
Speaker 4: it's like one of the trophy things in your romantic

1422
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 4: relationship that you were reflecting in your film.

1423
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:57,520
Speaker 2: Right, makes you wonder it sure does.

1424
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 3: Well well. This movie does pass the Bechdel test a lot,

1425
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 3: a lot. Many of the conversations are between a woman

1426
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:12,120
Speaker 3: and her abusive mother.

1427
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 2: Yep, but it does pass.

1428
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:24,880
Speaker 3: Are there any other passes between or besides those two characters.

1429
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,600
Speaker 2: No, which I feel like is a sign that it

1430
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,520
Speaker 2: would be I understand that it is in keeping with

1431
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:34,839
Speaker 2: the music industry that there are a lot of men

1432
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 2: at the top. That's part of why these issues are

1433
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 2: so perpetuated and unchallenged in a long term. It would

1434
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,800
Speaker 2: have been nice to give her a woman within the

1435
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,760
Speaker 2: music industry to talk to. I think it would have

1436
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 2: like more strongly enforced a lot of the themes that

1437
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:51,839
Speaker 2: the movie's handling well and getting, like the romantic interest

1438
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 2: cops take on the music industry. I guess I just

1439
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 2: wasn't very interested in his takes.

1440
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,599
Speaker 3: Right, there are two friends of it seems that get

1441
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 3: introduced but then quickly disappear from the story. It's the

1442
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 3: people who are like following her to the hotel room

1443
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:08,719
Speaker 3: early on.

1444
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 2: Right right, and they're like, aha, she's drunk, which is

1445
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,599
Speaker 2: also weird because it's like said by Macie later, maybe

1446
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,840
Speaker 2: it's just that like Nony does drink and her mom

1447
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 2: doesn't know about it, but her friends are like, hah,

1448
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 2: she's drunk. But then we're later told you don't drink

1449
01:24:23,280 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 2: because in.

1450
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 4: The beginning, one of the friends tells Noni when she

1451
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 4: after she was a Billboard Awards, she's in the car.

1452
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 4: I didn't notice this until the second time I watched this,

1453
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 4: but like one of the friends go, whoa, our girl

1454
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 4: is in bibing So.

1455
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 2: Not that line.

1456
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 3: Wow, So that does imply that she doesn't normally drink.

1457
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 6: So okay, okay, I missed that line. I mean, either

1458
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 6: God bless that line. Either way, she does have a

1459
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 6: female friend. The other guy or the other person seems

1460
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:55,840
Speaker 6: to be a man. I think he's a gay man

1461
01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 6: because he's talking about a man he's attracted or he's

1462
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 6: you know, he's queer. And it's like, where are those friends.

1463
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 6: Why aren't they helping in some way? Where's their support

1464
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 6: that they could be giving. What's going on there? The

1465
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 6: movie doesn't seem to care very much anyway. We've got

1466
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 6: a nipple scale to rate the movie on. Yeah, our

1467
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 6: scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the

1468
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:25,080
Speaker 6: movie through an intersectional feminist lens. For me, oh, I

1469
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 6: wish I could give this more because I do like

1470
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 6: Gina Prince Bethwood's work generally, and I appreciate that she's

1471
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:39,400
Speaker 6: one of the few directors who is a black woman

1472
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 6: who's getting mainstream movies out there.

1473
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 2: And even so, like it's still I mean, as we

1474
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 2: talked about on our episode on The Women King last year,

1475
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 2: is still not getting the amount of institutional respect that

1476
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,559
Speaker 2: she deserves from award bodies and for sure, Yeah, check

1477
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:59,799
Speaker 2: out our episode on The Women King for more discussion

1478
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 2: on that.

1479
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 3: So I wish she had made a movie that there

1480
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 3: wasn't so much to criticize a belt, but it's so

1481
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:14,559
Speaker 3: And I'm surprised that this movie is so uncritical of

1482
01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:18,800
Speaker 3: police based on who the director, the writer, director is,

1483
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:24,599
Speaker 3: the romance, and the movie in the implications of it,

1484
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:28,080
Speaker 3: not enough development of the Nony character, all these things,

1485
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 3: you know, not great. I do appreciate what the movie

1486
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 3: has to say about the commodification of women, but it

1487
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 3: just doesn't quite tip the scales enough. So I think

1488
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 3: I'll just say two point five nipples. I'll give one

1489
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:55,240
Speaker 3: to Google Batha Raw, I'll give one to Minie Driver.

1490
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 3: I like her as far as I know. I hope

1491
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:00,640
Speaker 3: she's not done or said anything problematic.

1492
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:01,240
Speaker 2: You never know.

1493
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 3: It's so hard to keep track of everybody.

1494
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,360
Speaker 2: As far as I know, she's still with us.

1495
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and of course I'll give my half nipple to

1496
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 3: Danny Glover of Saw one fame.

1497
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:16,719
Speaker 2: I'm also gonna give this two and a half. Yeah.

1498
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I am a Gina Prince by Food fan.

1499
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 2: This is just like not my favorite from her, and

1500
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 2: it hasn't aged well in many regards, some of which

1501
01:27:26,439 --> 01:27:29,040
Speaker 2: were within her control, some of which weren't. I feel

1502
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 2: like I've come down hard on this. I don't know.

1503
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:35,240
Speaker 2: I like twenty fourteen still feels too late for such

1504
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: an aggressive lapd cop hero love story. I know that,

1505
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 2: like obviously, if this movie was made today, there would

1506
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:45,400
Speaker 2: be a number of things that would not be the

1507
01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:49,000
Speaker 2: way that they are, Nate Parker's casting to begin with, right,

1508
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 2: and that the world has changed a lot since this

1509
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 2: movie came out. So I hope it didn't come down

1510
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 2: too hard on it. I really am a big fan

1511
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 2: of this writer director. I just did not really I

1512
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 2: don't know where I think this movie does work is

1513
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:03,800
Speaker 2: a commentary on Like we've talked about the commodification of

1514
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 2: women and fem's bodies in entertainment and the sort of

1515
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 2: zero sum game for someone who wants to make art

1516
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 2: on their own terms and be successful. Those parts worked.

1517
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 2: The romance didn't really hit for me. I'm pro like

1518
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 2: learning yourself better through a romantic relationship, but we just

1519
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:27,960
Speaker 2: didn't really see anything outside of that. It just which

1520
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 2: just leads the viewer to believe that it was the

1521
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 2: romantic relationship that caused all of these things, which doesn't

1522
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 2: feel fair to Nonie's character. Let's see, Okay, see, I'm

1523
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 2: going to go two point five. I'm going to give

1524
01:28:41,880 --> 01:28:44,000
Speaker 2: one to Google, I'm going to give one to Mini,

1525
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:47,080
Speaker 2: and I'm going to give my half to Jigsaw.

1526
01:28:47,479 --> 01:28:52,440
Speaker 3: Wow yes, Wow, yes, Maya, how about you, I'm gonna.

1527
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 4: Give it three. I'm going to give it three because,

1528
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:58,000
Speaker 4: like it's it's very much not perfect as far as

1529
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 4: like this in the entire Roman's angle and the copy

1530
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 4: Gana and like so many other things that we've talked about.

1531
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 4: But I just really appreciate the amount of black women

1532
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:11,640
Speaker 4: involved in the making of the movie, and like it

1533
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:16,839
Speaker 4: took so long to get made because Judah Prince Bythewood

1534
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:19,640
Speaker 4: was advocating for Google to be in the role, like

1535
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 4: even though like a bunch of singers and songwriters had

1536
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,559
Speaker 4: auditioned for the role, she wanted Google Mabuthro in it,

1537
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 4: even though she had a musical theater background, and this

1538
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:28,880
Speaker 4: was before she got cast it in Bell and before

1539
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 4: her like career skyrocketed between twenty and fourteen and twenty sixteen,

1540
01:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 4: and it was a black woman who was like, Yeah,

1541
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:37,519
Speaker 4: I see the promise in this film and like in

1542
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,080
Speaker 4: like BT films got to like showcase it. So I

1543
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,000
Speaker 4: really appreciate the amount of fighting for this film that happened,

1544
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 4: even though it does make me sad that like Guda

1545
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 4: Prince Bythewood like fought so much more for like Gugu

1546
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,960
Speaker 4: Mabuthra than what she did for Sinai Lathan for love

1547
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 4: in basketball. Who does make a please cameo in this

1548
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:58,439
Speaker 4: in this movie? So I assume these are fine, but

1549
01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 4: like when they've worked together again like after that, so yeah,

1550
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 4: again I assume things are fine. But still it's like.

1551
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 2: Wow, where's her cameo?

1552
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:09,799
Speaker 3: I missed it at.

1553
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:14,479
Speaker 4: The BET Awards right before they right before they perform

1554
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:17,879
Speaker 4: on stage, like where they're walking the red carpet and stuff. Yeah,

1555
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 4: like we see her for like two seconds like posing,

1556
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 4: so she doesn't have a speaking role and yeah, just

1557
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 4: loving how Mini Driver took on their role, even though

1558
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 4: a lot of actresses were like, I don't want to

1559
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 4: take on this role. She's evil and minie drivers like,

1560
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 4: I don't give a fuck about your perception of me.

1561
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:37,960
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be of service to this movie.

1562
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like a mini fucking drive.

1563
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 3: Like Yeah, I was in the phantomm of the two

1564
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 3: thousand and four.

1565
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 4: She has a sticky background too, which I didn't know

1566
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:52,639
Speaker 4: for like the longest time, and would have been interesting

1567
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:54,839
Speaker 4: to see if like that could have been included.

1568
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 2: I don't know she's in. She was in Gross Point

1569
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 2: Playing Yeah Anyway, amongst other hits.

1570
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 4: And there's another interview where the director talks about almost

1571
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 4: losing a loved one to suicide and therefore wanting to

1572
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 4: put that in the in the Stories film and I

1573
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 4: and I in the film Stori excuse me, And I

1574
01:31:16,520 --> 01:31:20,400
Speaker 4: can appreciate that, even though it's not perfect and like,

1575
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 4: and she's touched on suicide and a lot of her films,

1576
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 4: like whether she's written them or directed them, And I

1577
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 4: find that an interesting pattern for her and her work,

1578
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:34,719
Speaker 4: Like she she was supposed to be adapting a story

1579
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 4: that was about mental illness, but then it got passed

1580
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 4: to a white dude. I'm upset about that because like

1581
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:45,200
Speaker 4: the novelist or something like wanted to work work with

1582
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 4: him instead, because like Mark Ruffalo had said, like this

1583
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 4: guy's great. A screw that up. So so yeah, I'm

1584
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:57,679
Speaker 4: giving three nipples. I'm gonna give one to I wrote

1585
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 4: this down. I'm gonna give one for Google, Pabetha and

1586
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 4: Minnie Driver to share. I'm gonna give one to the

1587
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 4: choreographer Lauren Gibson and Gina Prince Bythewood to share. And

1588
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give one to Chaka Khan. Yeah, and the

1589
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 4: actor Darryl Stevens who plays the queer black man in

1590
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 4: the beginning we barely hell yeah, And I said, like,

1591
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 4: maybe I would give it three point five if I

1592
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 4: could give likeo point five to Shaka Khan's assistant being

1593
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 4: credited that she never liked two seconds. But yeah, somewhere

1594
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 4: between three three and a half. It is my official answer.

1595
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:42,320
Speaker 4: And Caitlin, you were gonna say something.

1596
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:45,799
Speaker 3: Oh no, I was just gonna thank you for joining

1597
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 3: us on this episode, Thanks for returning, and where can

1598
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 3: people check out your stuff? Plug away?

1599
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 4: Thank you. Folks can follow me at m doub sixteen,

1600
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:05,160
Speaker 4: MDUBB one six on Instagram and Twitter, and I have

1601
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:09,160
Speaker 4: the website Maya williamspoet dot com. I have a second

1602
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 4: book out, which again, thank you again for having me

1603
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 4: again just because like for we did Perks of Being

1604
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:17,840
Speaker 4: a Wallflower. First book came out was Using a Suicide.

1605
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 4: We're doing Beyond the Lights. Second book that came out,

1606
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 4: it's a book poetry collection called Refused a Second Date,

1607
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:28,599
Speaker 4: and it's about racism and dating, mental health and dating

1608
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 4: and like intergenerational and dating patterns between myself and my mom,

1609
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 4: my mom, who's actually on the cover of this collection,

1610
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 4: and I'm still happy that she said yes.

1611
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:39,559
Speaker 2: An incredible picture, Thank you.

1612
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, and my mom is biracial, which plays a huge

1613
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 4: role into why I identify as black and multi racial.

1614
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 4: And again, like seeing Beyond the Lights and seeing multiracial

1615
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,400
Speaker 4: representation like when we were getting like a spike of

1616
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 4: it between twenty fourteen and twenty sixteen was really impactful.

1617
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:02,640
Speaker 4: And yeah, please please buy my book. Hell yes, this

1618
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:05,360
Speaker 4: one's through different publisher, Harbor Editions.

1619
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:11,439
Speaker 3: Very nice and you can follow us on Instagram and

1620
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:17,360
Speaker 3: Twitter at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon

1621
01:34:17,680 --> 01:34:20,759
Speaker 3: where you get two bonus episodes every single month, always

1622
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:25,640
Speaker 3: centering an awesome theme that's so cool and good and

1623
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 3: always has a really good, awesome name.

1624
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 2: Like the Pinocchio Wars.

1625
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 3: We just wrapped up Dance Somber. We covered a couple

1626
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:37,040
Speaker 3: dance movies.

1627
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:38,240
Speaker 2: Can you believe it?

1628
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 3: Can you?

1629
01:34:41,280 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 2: Honey? Got brought up?

1630
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 3: That's another dance movie that we will have to add

1631
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 3: to the list. Yes, And that can be found at

1632
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:54,719
Speaker 3: Patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast, and it's five dollars

1633
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 3: a month and gets you access to the entire back

1634
01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 3: catalog of bonus episodes.

1635
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 2: You can get our merch over at teapublic dot com

1636
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 2: slash the Bechdel Cast. And again we'll also be linking

1637
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 2: where you can buy Maya's work because we're just simply

1638
01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 2: big fans over here. Thank you, and yeah, it's an

1639
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 2: honor that you joined us again. Thank you so much.

1640
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:22,360
Speaker 4: Always happy to join you'all again. Thank you both so much.

1641
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 3: Yay, Now let's go on stage and sing a song.

1642
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:31,280
Speaker 2: Wow power Flat Dick, Bye bye bye.

1643
01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 6: Way we happened to the British access by Oh.

1644
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1645
01:35:39,160 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 3: Caitlin Dorante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1646
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1647
01:35:46,439 --> 01:35:50,799
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Volskrosenski. Our logo and merch

1648
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1649
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1650
01:35:58,400 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 3: link Tree Slash Bechdel Cast