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Speaker 1: February two thousand four, Maura Murray empties her bank account,

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Speaker 1: drives four hours from school, crashes her car, and vanishes.

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Speaker 1: Joined the search as an investigative reporter, uncovered new evidence,

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Speaker 1: interrogates new witnesses, traces down new leads in this riveting

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Speaker 1: new investigative series, The Disappearance of Maura Murray Saturday's seven

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Speaker 1: sixth Central and nine eight Central on Oxygen, the new

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Speaker 1: Network for Crime, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius

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Speaker 1: XM Triumph Channel one thirty two. It was January two

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Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen, and the former New York conversens once

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Speaker 1: promised the political career was over. Former New York congressman

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Speaker 1: has now been sentenced to twenty one months for sending

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Speaker 1: inappropriate text messages to an underage girl. Some of his

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Speaker 1: messages are so obscene they can't be shown on television. Today,

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Speaker 1: I'm announcing my resignation from the victim. Isn't pulling any punches?

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Speaker 1: How would you describe his behavior? Weener's a strange wife.

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Speaker 1: Umma Aberdeen did not attend the sentencing. The investigation into

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Speaker 1: the scandal through the Clinton campaign into a tailspin. It

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Speaker 1: may have helped Donald Trump in the election. We never

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Speaker 1: thought we were going to say thank you to Anthony Weiner.

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Speaker 1: Political han show with one toe in the Oval Office,

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Speaker 1: one toe in the White House, sentenced for lewd acts

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Speaker 1: upon a minor. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Of course I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about Anthony Weener. Anthony Weiner gets hard time in court.

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Speaker 1: This is what we know. I'll break it down before

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Speaker 1: we analyze what the judge did. The judge sentencing Weener

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Speaker 1: to just twenty one months. I mean, every all the

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Speaker 1: legal funits are saying, oh, that's fair, that's not fair.

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Speaker 1: This is what we know about Winner. He lost a

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Speaker 1: spot in Congress as a so called shining star for accidentally,

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Speaker 1: I guess accidentally on purpose sending out a picture of

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Speaker 1: his crotch to his full on Twitter account. It is

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Speaker 1: apparently meant for just one special lucky lady, but everybody

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Speaker 1: got it. It's associated with his Twitter. You don't want

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Speaker 1: to wake up to that first thing in the morning.

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Speaker 1: Anthony Weener in his undy's with well, okay, I'll let

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Speaker 1: you look it up on the internet. So there was that.

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Speaker 1: Then he tries to make a comeback by running from

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Speaker 1: mayor and in the middle of that he gets busted

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Speaker 1: sexting naughtiness to several different ladies. Okay, that ruins the

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Speaker 1: mayoral candidacy, and you'd think you'd learn his lesson, But

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Speaker 1: now no, and this is the worst of it all.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to Mark Class joining me right now,

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Speaker 1: Mark Class, who founded Class Kids Foundation. As long as

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Speaker 1: I have been in the business of seeking justice, Mark

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Speaker 1: Class has been an example for me. So Mark Class,

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Speaker 1: don't go mess it up now, because I've been counting

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Speaker 1: on you now for many, many years, as do people

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Speaker 1: all over the world. Mark Class, no pressure with me.

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Speaker 1: High profile criminal profiler you know her well, Pat Brown

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Speaker 1: and crack reporter for crime stories, Scott Kimbler, Mark Class,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you explain what Anthony Weiner was found

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Speaker 1: guilty of. Well, this is I'm going to avoid all

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Speaker 1: of the obvious punsent exists here. But what Anthony Weiner

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Speaker 1: did it He descended into a very deep, dark place

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Speaker 1: where he was sexting and texting a fifteen year old girl.

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Speaker 1: This is a man in his fifties. This is a

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Speaker 1: man in his fifties who has been busted time and

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Speaker 1: time again in this exact same kind of behavior, and

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, it's ruined his It's ruined his congressional career,

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Speaker 1: it ruined his fledgling UH campaign to be mayor of

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Speaker 1: New York UM, and it very well may have impacted

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Speaker 1: ultimately the presidential election. But this is a guy that

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Speaker 1: was going after a fifteen year old girl, a girl

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Speaker 1: that he knew very well this fifteen because his sexting

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Speaker 1: and his texting was occurring on Skype and it was

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Speaker 1: occurring on FaceTime. He knew what this child looked like,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't stop him. He was he just turned

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Speaker 1: just turned fifteen, Mark, class, You're never gonna believe this

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Speaker 1: because you were have been with me and friends for

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Speaker 1: so long. You probably feel like my twins John, Dave

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Speaker 1: and Lucy were just born yesterday. They're almost ten, Mark,

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Speaker 1: so this is just four years, just a little beyond

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Speaker 1: four years. She had just turned fifteen when it started.

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Speaker 1: Of my daughter, my little girl who still blazes Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus and still hides her teeth for the tooth ferry, okay,

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Speaker 1: and sexting my rear end he had her on, as

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Speaker 1: you pointed out, Snapchat and Skype stripping naked and fondling

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Speaker 1: herself at his request. What do you think he was

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Speaker 1: doing on the other end, Mark, class Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's obvious what he was doing on the other end, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: But he's descending into a incredibly dark place, and it's

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Speaker 1: an escalating pattern of behavior, and who knows what the

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Speaker 1: next step is. So at this point, for him to

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Speaker 1: be slapped on the wrist yet again for this kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior, even if he is spending a minimal time

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Speaker 1: in prison, is a dangerous precedent because he's going to

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Speaker 1: go down farther and farther and farther to the point

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Speaker 1: where there's human contact, to the point where somebody might

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Speaker 1: really physically get hurt in a very real way, and

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Speaker 1: to the point where his behavior cannot be extricated, cannot

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Speaker 1: be brought back. Okay, let talk about I got into

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Speaker 1: a big fight with Dan Abrams, the ABC chief legal correspondent,

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Speaker 1: about this, and he thought the sentence was fair. I

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Speaker 1: think it's way too light. Weener faced up to ten

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Speaker 1: years on one count. He has done this many, many, many,

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Speaker 1: innumerable countless times. He pled guilty to one count, which

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Speaker 1: was the possibility of ten years. The prosecutors said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: twenty seven months. He got twenty one months on what

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Speaker 1: could be a ten year sentence on one of literally

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Speaker 1: innumerable offenses. So I think it's totally off the chart.

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Speaker 1: This sentence is totally wrong. But another thing that you're saying, Mark,

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Speaker 1: and I want to be clear about this, this is

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Speaker 1: child molestation. I was reading you and I were emailing,

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Speaker 1: and you sent me some information. When you get a

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Speaker 1: child to perform an obscene act over the internet, that

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Speaker 1: is child molestation. If someone got my daughter or son

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Speaker 1: to perform a leude at as they watched on FaceTime,

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Speaker 1: that is child molestation. He sent her adult pornography to

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Speaker 1: this girl that had just turned fifteen. Okay, that woe. Ah,

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Speaker 1: that is child molestation. Why is that child molestation? Mark? Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: this is also something that can be shared child molestation because,

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Speaker 1: first of all, she is not of the age of consent.

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Speaker 1: He can he she in a sexual connotation in the

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Speaker 1: in the in the sexual uh situation that we're in here.

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Speaker 1: She cannot consent. She is a victim. She is under

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old. He is using his his powers of

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Speaker 1: persuasion and his powers of persuasion. You're obviously pretty formidable

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Speaker 1: given the given his his history, to get this young

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Speaker 1: girl to perform and do terrible things. And this is

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Speaker 1: information that he can this is behavior that he can capture,

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Speaker 1: he can capture, he can relive it, and he can

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Speaker 1: share it. So this is not only molestation, but it's

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Speaker 1: pornography as well. And again, naturally, this is so deep,

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Speaker 1: so dark, so evil that this slap on the hand

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Speaker 1: that this man has received is uh, is not justice,

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Speaker 1: It's not fair, and it's going to ultimately probably lead

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Speaker 1: to many more victims with me as I mentioned high

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Speaker 1: profile criminal profile er Pat Brown. Okay, Pat, how another

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Speaker 1: thing that some information that Mark Class sent me he

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Speaker 1: knew it at, you know, off the top of his head,

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Speaker 1: was the fact that this guy is going to re offend.

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Speaker 1: I believe the statue you sent me, Mark was of

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Speaker 1: child predators, of pedophiles, molesters, repeat a fan after repeat

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Speaker 1: after release from jail. Okay, they do it again when

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Speaker 1: they get out. And Pat, I'm sure you've got all

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Speaker 1: sorts of scientific, scientific information, but this is what I know.

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Speaker 1: Don't groan aland because I say this a lot when

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Speaker 1: you don't know a horse, look at us track record, people,

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Speaker 1: this guy has got a son, a little boy who

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Speaker 1: was absolutely beautiful, and he was willing to risk daily

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Speaker 1: life with his son to text and sext and get

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Speaker 1: it on over face time with a girl, a little girl. So, Pat,

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Speaker 1: what's the likelihood this guy is going to reoffend? And

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Speaker 1: give me your profile of Anthony Weener? Okay, he First

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Speaker 1: of all, I'm gonna say he's a sex predator, absolutely

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Speaker 1: a sex predator like we saw on to Catch, you know,

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Speaker 1: to Catch a Predator, you remember the series. He behaves

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Speaker 1: exactly the same way as any of those men. And

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Speaker 1: I have posed online before as young girls fifteen years old,

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Speaker 1: and the behavior from sex predators towards me was exactly

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Speaker 1: what Weener did. They start out with just hello, how

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Speaker 1: are you doing, but they quickly descend into sex acts.

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Speaker 1: Then they go from describing sex acts to them saying

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Speaker 1: I want you to do this to yourself, and he

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Speaker 1: went right to that. He got on Skype do this

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Speaker 1: to yourself. He started talking about penetration. He also talked

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Speaker 1: about rape fantasies with us, so we're not even just

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Speaker 1: talking about molas station. We're talking about online rape. So

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Speaker 1: he's willing to go to that level. The next thing

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Speaker 1: he's gonna say, is when can we meet? And he's

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Speaker 1: not going to say it to just that one girl,

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Speaker 1: because when I was online posing, I would have got

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Speaker 1: twenty guys coming up and they would be not only

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Speaker 1: talking to me, but they'd be talking to ten other

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Speaker 1: girls at the same time, looking for the one who

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Speaker 1: would fall for it as quick as sheet, you know,

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Speaker 1: as quickly as possible, because they don't want to waste

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Speaker 1: time with actually just have the conversation. They want the

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Speaker 1: sex part of it. So they will they will be

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Speaker 1: online with how many girls, you know, and then they're

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Speaker 1: gonna look for the one who's gonna say yes. And

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Speaker 1: he got this girl already to that point, he's going

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Speaker 1: to go back. He's going to try to meet up

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Speaker 1: with a girl because that's what he wants. He's a

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Speaker 1: sex predator and he will rape. So I mean the

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Speaker 1: fact that he got such a slap on the wrist

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Speaker 1: and put him right back out in society. You put

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Speaker 1: a child sex predator back out there. And and that's

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Speaker 1: Scott Kimbler, investigative reporter joining us. Scott Kimbler. As a

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Speaker 1: matter of fact, Uh, what Pat Brown is saying is

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Speaker 1: resounding in my mind because didn't they argue in court

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Speaker 1: at one point Scott that well, wait, he's not just

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Speaker 1: targeting a girl, a minor girl. He was texting, sexting

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Speaker 1: nineteen different women at the same time. I mean, didn't

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Speaker 1: they argue that? And how does that help anything? Yes,

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Speaker 1: he has quite a history of this sex thing with

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Speaker 1: young girls. And not only that, he took on personas

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Speaker 1: when he was online doing this, the personas of Carlo

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Speaker 1: Danger and tea Dogs. Okay, whoa wait, wait, wait wait,

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Speaker 1: Carlos Danger is his handle online Carlow Danger and tea

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Speaker 1: Dog tea Dog. Okay, Mark, Mark. I know this is

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Speaker 1: not a laughing matter. I have dealt with so many

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Speaker 1: child listation victims. Right now, Can I just hone in

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Speaker 1: on him calling himself Carlos Danger, Mark Class. Can I

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Speaker 1: just look at that for just thirty seconds, Carlos da subliminal?

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Speaker 1: Because certainly there's danger involved, isn't there. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: danger involved to any future victims, there's danger involved to

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Speaker 1: the individuals that he's texting. Not to mention the harm

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Speaker 1: and danger that he's creating within his own family unit.

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Speaker 1: It says he's just horrible, this man. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you said the family unit. I'm just thinking about the

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Speaker 1: little boy who is now his dad is going to jail.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Scott Kimbler, go back, go back to what

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Speaker 1: you were saying, Scott Kimbler with me investigative reporter, Tea

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Speaker 1: Dog and Carlos Danger. Okay, what were you saying? He

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Speaker 1: does have a just a long history of doing this.

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Speaker 1: It would appear he is online doing this all the time,

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Speaker 1: or at least he was in this period. And this

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Speaker 1: is just a tremendous amount of time that is dedicated

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Speaker 1: to this. So you don't have this singular event or

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Speaker 1: even the two events the one that kept him, the

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Speaker 1: one that removed it from Congress, the one that cost

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Speaker 1: him the mayor's race, and and and this one. You

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Speaker 1: have this a long history of him doing a tremendous

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Speaker 1: amount of this. And it surprises me, Nancy, when you

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Speaker 1: look at the history of how much he has done this,

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Speaker 1: and these personas that he has online with the Carlos

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Speaker 1: Danger and the Tea Dog, that the judge at the

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Speaker 1: time of sentencing almost seemed very sympathetic to him after

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Speaker 1: lawyers argue that he is not a sexual deviant and

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Speaker 1: not a criminal and is getting help which is a

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Speaker 1: little surprising that they would have referred to him not

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Speaker 1: a sexual deviant when you look at what he did

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Speaker 1: in the amount of doing it that he did, and

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Speaker 1: for a sexual deviant, thank you, Scott champ Or you're right.

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Speaker 1: They did keep saying that he's not a sexual deviant. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, if you what else is deviant? If

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Speaker 1: face timing, snapchatting, skyping a girl and asking her to

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Speaker 1: strip down completely naked and fondle herself, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what is what would be devion? If that's not deviant,

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Speaker 1: how can they call it? You know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be thrown in the pot with all the nut jobs,

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Speaker 1: um Alan Duke. But I was researching this judge. She

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Speaker 1: was appointed to the bench fifth the federal bench fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago by Bill Clinton and Wiener's wife, Whoma Aberdon,

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Speaker 1: is Hillary Clinton's best friend. So you've got a judge

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Speaker 1: on the bench appointed by Bill Clinton who was sentencing

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Speaker 1: Clinton's wife's best friend's husband. Now that is, you know,

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Speaker 1: something to mull. But I don't want to bring politics

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Speaker 1: in it, because this is not about politics. But I

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Speaker 1: defined it very interesting. Aland that that they kept saying

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Speaker 1: he's not a sex deviant. Yes he is. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's kind of clear that this is an addiction.

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Speaker 1: He just can't stop it. I mean, he's got a

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Speaker 1: beautiful wife, he's got a child, he's got a career,

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Speaker 1: and he ruins it all by this continued behavior, despite

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Speaker 1: alleged therapy, and please that he's going to change. Listen

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Speaker 1: to this. I'm deeply sorry for the pain this has

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Speaker 1: caused my white uma and our family and my constituents,

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Speaker 1: my friends, supporters, and staff. In addition, over the past

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Speaker 1: few years, I have engaged in several inappropriate conversations conducted

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Speaker 1: over Twitter, Facebook, email, and occasionally on the phone with

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Speaker 1: women I have met online. I've exchanged messages and photos

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Speaker 1: of an explicit nature with about six women over the

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Speaker 1: last three years. For the most part, these relations these

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Speaker 1: communications took place before my marriage, though some have sadly

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Speaker 1: took place after. To be clear, I have never met

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Speaker 1: any of these women or had physical relationships at any time.

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Speaker 1: I haven't told the truth, and I've done things I

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Speaker 1: deeply regret. I vote pain to people I care about

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Speaker 1: the most, people who perceieved in me, and for that

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Speaker 1: I'm deeply sorry. I apologize to my wife and our families,

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Speaker 1: as well as to our friends and supporters. I'm deeply

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Speaker 1: ashamed of my terrible judgment and actions. When you run

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Speaker 1: your own business, you know time equals money. That's not

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Speaker 1: just an old saying, it's true. So why waste your

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Speaker 1: valuable time dealing with issues legal zoom can help with

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Speaker 1: hiring employees, basically a lot of fine print, and that

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Speaker 1: is why legal Zoom built a network of in depend

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Speaker 1: lawyers their license in all fifty states to provide you

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Speaker 1: the advice you need to get through the daily grind

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Speaker 1: of running a business, and you don't have to worry

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Speaker 1: com with me high profile criminal profiler Pat Brown, title

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Speaker 1: is victim's advocate, Mark Class investigative reporters Scott Kimbler Mark

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Speaker 1: Class is headed to St. Louis, Missouri for a class

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Speaker 1: kids print a thon with mangan Asked Autos Saturday, Octaber seven.

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Speaker 1: You know your tie Erles Smart Class heading to St. Louis, Missouri,

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Speaker 1: Octaber seven to keep up the good fight to save

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Speaker 1: children and Pat Brown, author of ten missing and murdered

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Speaker 1: child cases that have nothing to do with Madeline McCann.

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Speaker 1: Ten missing murder child cases that have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with Madeline McCann on Amazon. Pat still writing, still working,

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Speaker 1: still criminal profiling, and where would we be without investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Scott Kimbler. Let's get back to it. Anthony Weiner,

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Speaker 1: his wife Juma Aberdeen, long suffering, just absolutely beautiful woman, accomplished.

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Speaker 1: She's the one working. I don't know what he's doing

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Speaker 1: with all of his spirit time. Well wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: I do know what he's doing with all of a

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Speaker 1: spare time. He's online sexty ng and getting a little

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Speaker 1: girl in North Carolina just down naked and fondle herself.

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Speaker 1: And what he said, I mean, Mark Class, everyone is

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Speaker 1: talking about this, so clinically, nobody's heading down and dirty

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Speaker 1: and addressing the facts. He said to this little girl,

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Speaker 1: I would bust your well, I'm not gonna say that,

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Speaker 1: I would bust your slang term for female genitalia so

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Speaker 1: hard and so often you would leak and limp for

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Speaker 1: a month or a week, leak and limp. That's what

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Speaker 1: he's saying to a minor girl as she's stripping down

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Speaker 1: on video and finding herself. And he gets twenty one

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Speaker 1: months behind bars, and not only that, with good time,

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Speaker 1: you get about a fifteen percent reduction. That's young two

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Speaker 1: to three months. So that's eighteen months behind bars, Mark Class.

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Speaker 1: Now he's not even going in for well over a

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Speaker 1: month from now, so goodness knows what he's going to

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Speaker 1: be doing with his time. This guy has ignored red

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Speaker 1: flag after red flag after red flag. It's torn his

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Speaker 1: career asunder, it's it's torn his family apart, yet he

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Speaker 1: continues to behave in this manner um. This managers, as

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Speaker 1: Pat said, is a very dangerous predator and he needs

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Speaker 1: to be dealt with in no uncertain terms, and that

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Speaker 1: still is not happening. This is going to get worse

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Speaker 1: and worse and worse. So, Pat Brown, I take it

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Speaker 1: that you didn't fall for all the crying and the

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Speaker 1: snodding in court, his whining. So poor me, poor me,

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Speaker 1: poor me. I'm really bothered by the term, by the way,

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Speaker 1: sex addiction, because do we call rapists, oh, they have

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Speaker 1: an addiction to sex? We do. Do we call serial

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Speaker 1: killers somebody has an addiction to sex? No, we call

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Speaker 1: them criminals and sex predators because they are not just

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Speaker 1: doing something that they like too many times. What they're

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Speaker 1: doing is breaking the law. And that's what this man

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Speaker 1: was doing. He's a criminal, he's a child sex predator.

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Speaker 1: And what he was doing to that girl. You see

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Speaker 1: the violence in his his conversation that you just pointed out,

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Speaker 1: extremely violent. And let me tell you what comes after that.

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Speaker 1: So this is unpleasant for people to hear. Fondling is

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Speaker 1: a nice way to say what's going to come next.

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Speaker 1: What's going to come next is object insertion. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be hurting herself with like clothes pins. It's going

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Speaker 1: to be doing things to herself which are going to

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Speaker 1: be invasive and violent. That is what he enjoys. He's

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Speaker 1: got rape fantasy. So she's not being not touched. You know,

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Speaker 1: he's actually forcing her to do things to injure and

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Speaker 1: harm herself. So you know, he wants violent rape. And

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Speaker 1: then that goes from there into into the real world.

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Speaker 1: So where all I can say over and over again

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Speaker 1: is criminal sex predator. That's what he is. He's nothing

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Speaker 1: else but that. So all the other the little labels

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Speaker 1: we want to give him, we need to throw him away.

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Speaker 1: Criminal child, sex predator, you know, Mark class. A lot

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Speaker 1: of attention has been focused on the girl victim, and

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Speaker 1: Wiener is there in Upper West Side, New York society,

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Speaker 1: and this girl is from a small town in North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: and I can absolutely see why all the so called

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Speaker 1: intellectuals are pooh poohing this girl. And yes, she and

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Speaker 1: her father did later appear on Inside Edition to tell

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Speaker 1: their story. Take a listen to the victim on Inside Edition.

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Speaker 1: How did you first come into contact with Anthony Weiner?

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Speaker 1: It was through a direct message on the application Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I just sent him a nice message, just hello, I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge fan. Why Anthony Weiner? I knew that Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton would be running for president in the year, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to see if Anthony was still up to

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Speaker 1: the same antics. How soon did it go from these

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Speaker 1: niceties to him taking it to a different level. I

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Speaker 1: knew that it was going downhill and really fast. I

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Speaker 1: was disgusted that that doesn't bother me in the least

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Speaker 1: does not bother me in the least mark class. Why

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Speaker 1: is that always thrown up like she's done something bad?

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Speaker 1: Because I'm glad she went on the insider and inside

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Speaker 1: asident told her story. I want other parents to know

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Speaker 1: what can happen called victim blainey blaming Nancy. It's pure

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Speaker 1: and simple. For some way or another, this fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old girl is responsible for the crimes that were committed

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Speaker 1: against her, and it's something that people have to be

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Speaker 1: very careful about it. It's insidious and it's diabolical to

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Speaker 1: blame victims of crime. We have to remember this is

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Speaker 1: a man in his fifties who has ignored red flag

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Speaker 1: after red flag after red flag, going straight at a

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Speaker 1: girl who has just turned fifteen years old. There is

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Speaker 1: criminal intent, there is is criminal involvement, and it's all

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Speaker 1: on his part, you know, Pat Brown, criminal profiler Jackie

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Speaker 1: here in the studio is holding up a note that says,

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Speaker 1: how could his wife not see what's happening. You know,

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Speaker 1: we asked that question about a lot of wives of criminals,

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Speaker 1: wives that mafia wise, for example, you know cartel wives, Well,

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Speaker 1: they get something out of that relationship that they like,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of money first sample, or political power

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And in my opinion, they're enablers. And I

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of respect for that. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: You can support a guy as a sex predator in

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Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. You've got an issue, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and so yeah, I can't be really nice about

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Speaker 1: that because it's it's appalling to me that anyone would

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Speaker 1: support a sex predator. Perhaps, you know, she wants what

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Speaker 1: she wants out of life, so she's down downplaying what

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Speaker 1: he's doing with this quite quote sex edition addiction type

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Speaker 1: of thing or recaps. You know, she doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: young son, so she doesn't want her her husband to

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Speaker 1: be a child sex predator, So downplaying that does make

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Speaker 1: her feel better that her son's father isn't such a

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Speaker 1: dirt bag, I suppose. But all in all, you're supporting

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Speaker 1: a sex predator. So that's that's all I can say

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Speaker 1: for her. I mean sorry, I can't be nice about it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, but I will say this. You

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Speaker 1: know how when you love some money, you are blind

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Speaker 1: to their faults, to that fault, child, child sex predator.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, hold on, hold on, it's I don't think

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Speaker 1: he was doing it right in front of her, but

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Speaker 1: when she found out, when she found out, you're right

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Speaker 1: about that, you're right about I'm done, gone. There's a

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Speaker 1: limit too. No, I can't see what's sitting in front

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Speaker 1: of me. You know, if that, if what's sitting in

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Speaker 1: front of me is a criminal, that kind of a criminal,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm out the door immediately. We'll not give

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Speaker 1: him any kind of support. You're right, you're right. Um,

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Speaker 1: I hate I don't like blaming her. I don't like

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Speaker 1: dragging her into it. But your point is very well taken.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to whom abdon in claiming, in the

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Speaker 1: famous words of Tammy wy Net, she's standing by her

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Speaker 1: a man. Listen. It was one an easy choice in

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Speaker 1: any way, but I made a decision that it was

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Speaker 1: worth staying in this marriage. That was a decision I

425
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: made for me, for our son, and for our PM.

426
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: I didn't know how it worked out, but I did

427
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: know that I wanted to give it a try. Anthony's

428
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: makes it horrible mistakes, both before he resigned for Congress

429
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: and after. But I do very strongly believe that that

430
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: is between us in all our marriage. We discussed all

431
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: of us beforehand. He decided for the right femayor so Really,

432
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: what I want to say is I love him, I

433
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: have forgiven him, I believe in him. And if we

434
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: have said from the beginning we are moving forward, that

435
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 1: has all changed because wisely whom Abadan who was filed

436
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: for divorce was not in court for the sentencing. Mark class,

437
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: Are you sitting down down? Okay, maybe you should lay

438
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: down for this one. Um. You know they want weener

439
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: to go to the school killed see I uh Correctional Institute.

440
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: That is the one that Monikered club fed. In fact,

441
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: Forbes magazine called it one of the best prisons to

442
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: go to, one of the best places to go to prison.

443
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, go ahead and lay down when you

444
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 1: hear this, because I don't want you to pass out.

445
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: You can play bocci ball, plant veggies and a veggie patch.

446
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: There are no fences. You can actually walk out because

447
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: there's no fences. Jim's pool tables, libraries, TV room, a garden, treadmills, stairmasters,

448
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: exercise bikes again, pool tables, basketball courts, baseball field, racquetball courts,

449
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: a greenhouse, the veggie patch again. Forbes magazine calls it

450
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: one of the best places to go to prison. That's

451
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: what they want, Mark Class, Well, that's not prison, that's

452
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: a vacation, Nancy, I'm sorry. I mean it's it's about

453
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: a double standard of justice in our country, and it's

454
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 1: about the the It's about privilege, nothing more and nothing less.

455
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Upper West Side goes to the best prisons and probably

456
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: will have the best psychiatrists, but it's still capable of

457
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: committing the worst possible crime. Did I mention they have

458
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: Continental breakfast starting at six am? That I mentioned that, Okay,

459
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: this all goes down. November six will be his prison designation.

460
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: I go back to him crying and snodding in court.

461
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: He actually fixed his mouth to say through his lawyers

462
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: that his son is the reason he should not do

463
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: jail time. So he is using his minor child, a minor,

464
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: to evade punishment for abusing a minor. Does does that

465
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: make does that bass ackwards to anybody but me? Pat

466
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: Brown isn't just me that finds that crazy. Oh that's

467
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: been used over and over in court. In other words,

468
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: don't punish my child by punishing its parents. But let's

469
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: talk about how much he cares about this child. Remember

470
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: that picture of him lying next to his son which

471
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: he sent out the porn picture. I mean, cool takes

472
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: a picture of their private park next to your own baby.

473
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: I mean, how disgusting is that? I mean, you mean

474
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: the one with interaction his own baby was in the

475
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: porn picture. You know, that's how much he cares about

476
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: his son. So I'm sorry. I think people don't recognize

477
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: that perhaps this guy has a psychopathology that's way worse

478
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: than people want to admit. Because if he cared about

479
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: his son, if he cared about his wife, if he

480
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: cared about human beings, if he cared about this young girl,

481
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be a child sex predator. I mean that's

482
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: just a fact. I mean, just because he isn't a

483
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: serial killer that people can say, oh, a serial killer,

484
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: he's he's a psychopath. Well what about this guy? Really

485
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: he's a child sex predator? Well what would you want

486
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: to call him? You know, I'm gonna put him in

487
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: the same category. Well, one thing I don't get, Mark

488
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: Class is the fans are usually pretty harsh on anything

489
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: to do with like child porn or providing obscene materials

490
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: to minors. This was the offense he pled guilty too.

491
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: Transferring obscene material to a minor. He pled to, so

492
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: there's no doubt he did. He pled guilty to one count,

493
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: even though we know they're likely dozens at least of

494
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: the same counts. The statutory man acts on this one

495
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: crime is ten years. This kind of leniency on the

496
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: part of the U S attorneys is really unheard of.

497
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: What do you make of it, Mark Class, Well, I

498
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: don't think it's unheard of it all at all. Again,

499
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: this is this is the benefits of privilege. And if

500
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: you remember Mark Foley, the congressman from West Palm Beach,

501
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: Florida who was busted enticing the Congressional pages, he was

502
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing the Congressional pages at

503
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: Wiener was doing, and he was able to go back

504
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: to his home community and and face no justice at all.

505
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: So if you're positioned in such a situation that you

506
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: can benefit from these types of privileges, you're going to

507
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: be able to benefit from them, and you will get

508
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: a slap on the wrist. And again, it's a very

509
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: dark road this man is going down. And unless somebody

510
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: starts taking this seriously, it's going to get worse and

511
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: worse and worse. In Mark Class, founder of class Kids,

512
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: tireless victims, advoctate a crime, victim himself. Mark, I want

513
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: the last word to go to you on this story. Well, Natty,

514
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: we have to take these kinds of crimes against children

515
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: very seriously. In many ways, we are taking them more

516
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: seriously now than we have in the past. But I'm

517
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: beginning to see I'm beginning to see a crack in

518
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: the damn. I'm beginning to see people ease back on

519
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: the idea of punishing criminals and not being so concerned

520
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: about the needs of victims and about the protection of children.

521
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: And if we allowed that to continue, then this guy

522
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: is going to be just the tip of the iceberg.

523
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: He needs to be punished, he needs to be treated,

524
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: but he certainly has to be kept away from other children.

525
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Or again, and I've said this three or four times,

526
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: it's going to get worse and worse and worse, and

527
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: somebody might end up dead certainly people are going to

528
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: end up in situations that they might not be able

529
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: to extricate themselves from that. Brown Mark class Scott Kimbler,

530
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: we await justice in the prison designation. On November six,

531
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: a gorgeous twenty five year old girl, Julie Mott, succombs

532
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: to cystic fibrosis. Her family is devastated. They have basically

533
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: fought for her life, their entire lives. The mom, the dad,

534
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: the family trying to make her live with cystic fibrosis.

535
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: And this beautiful she actually looks like a cover girl's

536
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: long I'm looking at it right now, long blonde hair,

537
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: big brown eyes. She says, stylish and everything she has.

538
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: She passes away and the family is devastated. But that's

539
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: not the end of the story. Then, out of the blue,

540
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: at the funeral home, Julie's body disappears, Yes, her body

541
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: disappears from the funeral home. And let me add a

542
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: feel of facts to that, just to throw a monkey

543
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: wrench in the work. The hinges on her coffin are busted,

544
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: are broken, The hinges are broken. The coffin is still

545
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: there in the funeral home in a hallway. Her body

546
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: is gone. Someone actually goes into her coffin, breaks it

547
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: open and takes out her lifeless of body and as

548
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: of right now no clue as to were is Julie.

549
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: I mean, on top of everything to have her body taken.

550
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: Scott Kimbler is joining me. Crime Stories investigative reporter, Scott

551
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: what happened when they see everything about this story would

552
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: fall under the category of completely strange. At the funeral home,

553
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: you have the family, of course creathing, but you also

554
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: have this obsessive ex boyfriend that was there sort of

555
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: just messed up the entire mood of the funeral. And

556
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: then after the funeral they realized that the body is gone.

557
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: And not only is it gone, a cart that it

558
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: right on is leaned over. And you know, that's the

559
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: fact I didn't know, Scott Kimbler, that the car was

560
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: all bent up. That that adds another fact to this scenario.

561
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 1: There's so many wrinkles in it. Pat Brown, criminal profiler.

562
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: You know, to say criminal profiler to Pat Brown really

563
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: doesn't do her justice. Let me just introduce he's with me.

564
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 1: Wendy Russell Winer, deathcare industry expert, Scott Kimbler, Investigative reporter,

565
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: Mark class need I say More crime victim advocate and

566
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: Pat Brown criminal profiler. To Pat Brown, Pat, I don't

567
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: understand how this happened. Well, you know, there only seems

568
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: to have been one real suspect, and that is the

569
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend who's the stalker. I mean, this guy stalked

570
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: her in real life, then she dies, he stalks her

571
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: to the funeral, then he stays after the funeral, and

572
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: then you're gonna wonder who else would want to take

573
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: her body. I mean really, at that moment in time,

574
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: it seems a little strange to anybody else in the

575
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: funeral home, but suddenly decide I've just got to have

576
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: this beautiful woman's body. I mean, it's just a little

577
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: I agree. And in fact, so you have to think

578
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: that he came back and paid somebody to let him

579
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: in there. And I'm sure that's what the police have

580
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: been looking at. Who did he pay off? There's no video,

581
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 1: So did he pay off somebody to let him come

582
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: back and steal her body? I can't think of anything

583
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: else that could have happened, you know. To Wendy Russell Winer,

584
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: death care industry expert. You know, I was just telling

585
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: story when I met Wendy she practically had nothing on.

586
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, I'll tell the rest of the story.

587
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: We were in a swimming pool. We did not meet

588
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: at a highbrow legal function. I had the twins on

589
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: vacation at the beach and struck up a conversation with

590
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: a lady that had girls of her own, and it

591
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: turned out to be she is uh, one of the

592
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: top experts in her field. Wendy Russell Winner deathcare industry expert. Wendy,

593
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't get how this whole thing happened. I mean,

594
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: we've got two alternatives. One, we've got the idea that

595
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: Pat Brown is floating, and the way she analyzes it

596
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. This guy stalked her in life.

597
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: He called her obsessively. Uh. In fact, he called the

598
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: funeral home two hundred times in one day. Okay, just

599
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 1: so you know, that's what I'm talking about, obsessive. And

600
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: she broke up with him, and he came to the

601
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: funeral the family told him to leave and there. While

602
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: Pat's right, there's not video of the moment of what happened,

603
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: he is caught on video later in the days following

604
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: the funeral, coming back to the funeral home and he

605
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: is being prosecuted for criminal trespass. But Wendy, I mean,

606
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: it just makes sense to me if he had the body,

607
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: why would he be coming back to the funeral home

608
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 1: days later, as if he's looking for clues to find her.

609
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: What do you think, Wendy, Was there some sort of

610
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: a mix you know, Nancy? It doesn't seem as though

611
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: the remains were confused with another set of remains, as

612
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: as some have suggested. Uh, it doesn't appear that this,

613
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: uh is what you would call a mix up with

614
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: regard to the body. Rather, But why do you say that?

615
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: Why do you say that, Wendy, Because I'd rather think

616
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: it was a mix up, although I don't like that

617
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: idea either as opposed to someone taking the body for

618
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: obviously odd purposes. Sure, the the evidence that suggests that

619
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: this was not simply uh failure of communication or some

620
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: sort of mishap that occurred at the funeral home relates

621
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: to the fact that, Uh, the remains were taken apparently

622
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: before the business hours of the funeral home even concluded,

623
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: So between the time that the funeral ended and the

624
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: clothes of business that day, that's the time period in

625
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: which the police think that the remains were taken, and

626
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: of course, uh, if the employees of the funeral establishment

627
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: had something to do with the removal of the remains

628
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 1: from the casket, you wouldn't expect to see broken hinges.

629
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: What You're right, that's the one fact, Wendy that I

630
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: keep coming back to, the broken hinges, and so you

631
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: would Uh, you would have expected that if employees were involved,

632
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: they would have known how to open a casket which

633
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 1: can be opened. But uh, in this circumstance, we've got

634
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 1: broken hinges. Uh. We don't have any evidence that after

635
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: the funeral home closed, that there was any um re

636
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: entry to the funeral establishment after hours or anything of

637
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: that nature. What we end up with is a casket

638
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: with broken hinges still in place where it was a

639
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: waiting transport to the um other facility, other death care

640
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: facility that was involved, and ultimately, UM, you know, the

641
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: remains there mens are simply gone. Take a listen. Julie's

642
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: mother says she's absolutely devastated and begging for help. This

643
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: selfish person who took her could not have loved her

644
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: any more than I do. I need her back. Please,

645
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: pleas you, please, please return our Julie to us. Her

646
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: final wishes are very important to her family. To complete

647
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: them it is the last thing we can do for her.

648
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: And now to our special guest, Mark Class, founder of

649
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: Class Kids, a tireless advocate for victims rights. He has

650
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: been on a mission since the kidnap and murder of

651
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: his beautiful daughter Polly. Mark, I, as I always say,

652
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: and I use you in so many arguments, you are

653
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: the gold standard. Whenever I have a victim's family behaving strangely, i'mlie.

654
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: Look at Mark Class. Look at how he behaved from

655
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: the word go when he found out Polly was missing.

656
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 1: That is what I would expect of a victim's family.

657
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: Mark Class is the goal standard and has led the

658
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: fight for victims justice for so many years. Mark, you

659
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: gotta keep going because I don't know what we would

660
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,759
Speaker 1: ever do without you. You just gotta keep going. I

661
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 1: know you've got the weight of the world on your shoulders, man,

662
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: but you gotta keep climbing up hill. Right now, you

663
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: just heard Julie Motts and mother begging, begging. What does

664
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: this mean to a victim's family? Oh nay, thank you

665
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: for the kind words. You know. It's this mother transports

666
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: me back to those dark days when Paully was in

667
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: a funeral home and she was in a little, tiny casket,

668
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 1: and we were preparing to cremate Paully, and some of

669
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: the deepest emotions I've ever felt in my life were

670
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: sitting alone with my daughter's remains in the funeral home.

671
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: It didn't last long, maybe fifteen minutes, maybe half an hour,

672
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: but I had never felt so close yet so just

673
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 1: at the same time in my entire life. Um, it's

674
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: it's devastating what's happened here. But I take a I

675
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: take a little exception to a few of the things

676
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: that I've heard so far. I find it really difficult

677
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: to believe, Nancy that during operating hours, while there are

678
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: still people in the funeral home, and most funeral homes

679
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: aren't aren't gigantic establishments, say they have, uh, they tend

680
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 1: to be rather small, that somebody would somehow get into

681
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: her coffin, break open her coffin, tip over the cart

682
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: that the coffin was sitting on, slim her over their shoulder,

683
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: and and out without being detected. That that makes absolutely

684
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: no sense to me at all. Furthermore, it really makes

685
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: no sense to me that the boy friend would continually

686
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: call the funeral home, continually called the family, continually do

687
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: everything he seemingly is able to do to find out

688
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: what happened to her remains. I suspect that there might

689
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: be something even more nefarious going on. I suspect that

690
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: there might be not collusion, but that there might be

691
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: something going on with either one of the employees at

692
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: the funeral home itself or the subcontractor whose job it

693
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: was to collect her remains and cremate them after business

694
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: hours after the establishment had closed down. Because nobody broke in,

695
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: no alarms were sounded, whatsoever. This is a mystery, Um,

696
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: This is a mystery that goes I think beyond the

697
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: boyfriend himself. Yeah, and why, I mean Mark, you and

698
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 1: I and and Pat have analyzed literally hundreds, if not more,

699
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: probably over the years, thousands of aces together. I mean,

700
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: why would he keep going back if he had the body?

701
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: This is after her body disappears. He's caught on video

702
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: coming back and they finally had to issue a warrant

703
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: to keep him away from the funeral home. That doesn't

704
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: make sense to me. If he had the body, he

705
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: would keep coming back. This is what we know. After

706
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: the memorial service, but before her body was transferred to

707
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: the crematorium, the funeral home quote lost possession of Julie's body.

708
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: To this day is unable to explain how the body

709
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: goes missing. There were searches, uh mission park officials, volunteer

710
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: search parks. Would it areas for any clue to find

711
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: her completely unsuccessful? You know, Mark class with me the

712
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: way you describe that moment, I couldn't help. But in

713
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: my mind go back to two very stark and different moments. First,

714
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: when my fiance's funeral occurred after he was murdered, I

715
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 1: walked in to the over a whelming smell of carnations,

716
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: which to this day I can't They make me physically

717
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: sick to smell to this day. And at a distance,

718
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: I saw his profile in a casket and I passed out.

719
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: That was as a girl, all right. Fast forward years later,

720
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: my dad, as you know Mark, recently passed away and

721
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: I felt those moments that you describe with Polly, just

722
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,320
Speaker 1: sitting there with him. I didn't want them to close

723
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: the casket. I didn't want it to be over when

724
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: they took him to bury him, I tried to walk

725
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: away and kept going back. I didn't I can stand

726
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: to see him buried, but those moments in that funeral home,

727
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: I will never forget it. And then to have this happen. Um,

728
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: I just don't know which way to turn from here.

729
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 1: But Pat Brown criminal profile or heard what Mark Class

730
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: just said? Who would take her body? What person would

731
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: take her body? Well, that's what I'm saying. You know

732
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: that I have a problem with it being somebody who

733
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: has connected, who had the ability to move her body

734
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: in the proper way. There should be no damage done

735
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: to anything. I just you know, it doesn't make any sense.

736
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: I can understand if they moved it and something went

737
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: wrong and somebody lost it or whatever, that shouldn't they

738
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: shouldn't have that damage to to the casket. Uh. And

739
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: as far as the boyfriend does, hey, look he's a stalker.

740
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: You cannot predict how he's gonna behave. He may have

741
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: taken that body and he still may be hounding them

742
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 1: because it amuses him or where it maybe because he

743
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: wants it to look like he doesn't know what happened,

744
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: So he's look, I don't know what happened to her.

745
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened to her. So he calls

746
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: and calls and calls that that's that doesn't prove he

747
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: wasn't involved. So I have a problem with the fact

748
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: there was her particular body that disappeared and there was

749
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: damamage done. That to me shows somebody came in who

750
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: wasn't didn't have the ability to move her in the

751
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 1: right way. And I don't understand what anybody who specifically

752
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: worked at the funeral home and put her their hands

753
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: on it would have done that incorrectly. So I still

754
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: say they got to look back at who's involved. There's

755
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,919
Speaker 1: the whole criminal profile of the person that would take

756
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: a dead body. Staff members at the funeral home didn't

757
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: discover her body missing until the day after the service,

758
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: as they preferred to transfer it to the crematorium. Police

759
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: insist it was taken within a three hour window at

760
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: the end of the service, between that and the end

761
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: of the business day tipline to one oh two to

762
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 1: five eight four seven seven. Windy Russell Wiener, deathcare industry expert,

763
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: what can be done now? UM, just allow the police

764
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: to continue their investigation. There's really, uh nothing from a

765
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: deathcare regulatory perspective that can be done at this point. Uh.

766
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: It seems as though the police have uh, you know,

767
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: initiated an investigation. I know the this uh not as

768
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: fresh an investigation as others. But as new facts come

769
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: to white and as information becomes known, UH, you know,

770
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: there's always a bit of an increased interest and that

771
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: can reignite the investigation. UH. In terms of the funeral

772
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: establishment and the other deathcare licensee that we're involved, the

773
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: state will continue to oversee the regulation of both of

774
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: those licenses and UH, and we'll take appropriate action if

775
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: it later turns out that they were involved. Last question,

776
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, the funeral home contract with another company to

777
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: actually move the body. Uh. What about the fact that

778
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: that company was had mixed up another two bodies just recently.

779
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: This isn't their first offense. I understand that that is

780
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: the situation. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of

781
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: a mix up in this particular scenario. Remember when remains

782
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: are mixed up, if there is a confusion about uh,

783
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: the records related to human remains, there is typically not

784
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: Typically there is always more than one set of remains involved.

785
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: You think you have one set of remains, but really

786
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: you have another. In this situation, we don't have a

787
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: second set of remains that would have been uh tied

788
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: into a mix up in this situation that we know of,

789
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: true that we know of, but the evidence so far

790
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: has not revealed that there is any kind of a

791
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: mix up. And you would have expected to have seen

792
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: records that would have indicated that there was some kind

793
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: of a miscommunication or a mix up, right if in

794
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: fact that had happened, Well, that leads me to the

795
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: reality of it's not a mix up, and there was

796
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: an intentional theft of this young girl's body, and what

797
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: is some money doing with her remains? Nancy Grace Crime Stories,

798
00:48:52,680 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend. Do you find yourself obsessed single

799
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: for unsolved mysteries? Do you wish there was a group

800
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: of people just like you to talk motives and alibis with.

801
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: If so, join the Crime Con Cold Case Club and

802
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: work alongside experts and fellow crime sleuths to help uncover

803
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Speaker 1: new leads and theories in the cold cases they adopt.

804
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: Their first cold case focuses on the mysterious disappearance of

805
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 1: nursing student Maura Murray in two thousand four, and it's

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807
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Speaker 1: find more info at Club dot Crime con dot com.

808
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Speaker 1: That's club dot crime con dot com.