1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm not a violet human being. 2 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Did you tell the women to do their witchy things? 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: I said, if you're going to do something, leave something witchy, 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: just like I would tell you. If you're going to 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: do something, do it well and leave something witchy. Leave 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: a sign to let the world know that you were there. 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: Have a good day. Did you tell them which words? 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: No pig helter skelter, no rise? I stop my vocabulary, 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: that stop my generation. I keep telling you that. Wow. Yeah, 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: there's nothing like hearing it from the horse's mouth. Charles 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: Manson may he wrought in hell Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? 12 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: Does it never end with Charles Manson? Let's listen to 13 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: the rest of that. Leslie said in the car on 14 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 1: the way to the Lobbianca house, you said, this time, 15 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: make sure they're not scared like last night. Oh no, 16 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: there may have been something like this. Uh yeah, I 17 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: remember something like that, but I don't remember exactly the 18 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: right words. I don't remember exactly the right words. But 19 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: that's that's a simple that's a simple philosophy from China. 20 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: That's a Chinese philosophy. You know, if if you're gonna 21 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: if you're gonna go to war and you're fighting your enemy, 22 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: and you're killing when he's afraid. You know it's a 23 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: bad home, and it's bad. It's bad, so you try 24 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: to absorb the fear. I think the Hindus choose that word. 25 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: What the h double l does this serial killer know 26 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: about Chinese tradition, the art of war, and the Hindu religion? 27 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: Not a d A M n thing? What the hey 28 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: is he talking about? Don't kill them while they're afraid. 29 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: Sharon Tate was pregnant when his quote, which he followers 30 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: under his direction, slaughtered her. The Lot Bianca's begged for 31 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: their lives, not afraid. My rear end right now. This 32 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: cult leader's family quote family who goes on a murderous rampage, 33 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: still demanding to be released. Over the course of two nights, 34 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: a so called family slaughtered ten people, including pregnant star 35 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: Sharon Tate. She had just made a movie debut in 36 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: The Wrecking Ball, The Wrecking Train. I think she was awesome. 37 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: The La Bianca's a happy family slaughtered because of Charles Manson. 38 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: You were just hearing the devil himself speaking to Leslie Stall. 39 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: It goes on and on with me right now, an 40 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it 41 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: back together. Troy Slayton, high profile criminal defense attorney there 42 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: in LA. Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood 43 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, detective and 44 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: author of Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer. I 45 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: don't know if I want to go there. Stephen Lampley. 46 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: We're now medical examiner out of South Carolina and author 47 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: of homicide Investigation Field Guy. Doctor Michelle Duprey joining me 48 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: right now. Crime online dot Com Investigative Report order Levi page. 49 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: You know, Levi, thank you for being with us in 50 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: preparation for today. I actually watched Once upon a Time 51 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: in Hollywood. Now. I love Tarantino, I love his work, 52 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: and I love this Levi page. What's happening with these 53 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: evil killers? Now? Well, the La Times has done an 54 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: investigation into a series of suspicious debts that they think 55 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: that it's possible that the Manson family committed and it 56 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: started with twenty nine year old Joe. You wait, Levi, Levi, 57 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: hold on just a moment. You mean Charles Manson is 58 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: so called family are linked potentially linked to more murders, 59 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: and if so, how many more? How many are we 60 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: talking about? What's the body count? We're talking about twelve 61 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: that the La Times has said that the LAPD thinks 62 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: that he is connected to But there are several that 63 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: stand out. Twenty nine year old Joe pu He was 64 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: the boyfriend of a Manson follower named Sandra Good, and 65 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: Joel Pugh did not like Charles Manson. He was embarrassed 66 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: that his girlfriend was following this cult. But Manson was 67 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: infatuated with Sandra Good because she was a trust fund baby. 68 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: When her father passed away, she started getting two grand 69 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: a month and this money she was giving to Manson 70 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: and his cult. So he loves Sandra Good. And Pugh 71 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: was found dead in the Talgarth Hotel in London. His role. 72 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: I want to tell you something he just mentioned, and 73 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: I want to go to our friend Troy Slayton on this. Troy, 74 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna even ask you to defend that killer, 75 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: Charles Manson, but I want you to look at his 76 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: m O. I really I didn't think about this part 77 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: of it before until I saw two Tarantino's movie, because 78 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just I'm just concerned with the nuts 79 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,279 Speaker 1: and bolts. The facts what I can prove in court 80 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: and that justice prevails. But it was very clear what 81 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: Manson's m O was. You're hearing Levi Page described this 82 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: trust fund baby and that Manson was all into her. 83 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: He had plenty of women to sleep with, but she 84 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: had money. And in this movie, Tarantino reminds me that 85 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: Manson and his followers would go out like fishing for followers. 86 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: You know, lost girls that were homeless, that were rebellious, 87 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: that didn't want to be with their family, And what 88 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: could be better for Manson than a trust fund baby? 89 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: That was his mo to how he developed his followers. 90 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: Anyone connected with Manson who even took an ancillary step 91 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: towards committing the murder or any of those murders up 92 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: to thirty five that Manson bragged in jail that could 93 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: have been committed under his direction and he was only 94 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: convicted for nine. Anyone even remotely connected that took an 95 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: affirmative step is also guilty of murder. Trolly, I want 96 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: you to take a listen to my friend Diane Lake 97 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: that I spoke with about these girls that became his 98 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: devite's you, Diane Light, he fell under his spell. He, 99 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: as I said, was very charismatic, playful, seemingly intelligent. And 100 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: the girls, the other girls had such a devotion for him. 101 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: It was easy. And being not with my family and 102 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: not feeling like I really belonged with the life that 103 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: they had chosen just made me and that his family, 104 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: he and his family length of girls made me feel 105 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: so welcomed and part of them. That was the that 106 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: was the magic. Have they lost their minds? That was 107 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: Diane Lane who actually was with Manson. Have the magic? 108 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: What magic? I mean? Joseph Scott Morgan, you're the forensic expert. 109 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: How many times have you and I seen murders where 110 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,359 Speaker 1: one person or more than one person is totally enamored 111 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: with the devil? That would be Charles Manson. They'll do 112 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: whatever he says. Yeah. And you know, one of the 113 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: one of the things that's always kind of come through 114 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: with all of this is that we heard in the 115 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: in the beginning, you know that clip where he said 116 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: do something witchy. Uh, he had these people under a spell. 117 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's kind of floated to 118 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: the top over the years is that he would actually 119 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: as a collective, have these have these young runaway earls 120 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: plied with like hallucinogens, and he would fake actually taking 121 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: them himself. And then as they're under the influence of 122 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: these things, he would begin to espouse his philosophies and 123 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: preach to them and in effect kind of perform a 124 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: brainwashing over these people and affect them as to what 125 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: they're going to do. And you've got all of these 126 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable kids that are essentially just kind of lost kids 127 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: that are on the street that he would take in 128 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: and they would go out and just slaughter people, as 129 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: we see in the Tate Lobby on kohomicide crime stories 130 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. The Medicine family is mostly remember for 131 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: two events, and that would be the murderer of Sharon 132 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Tate and for others there in Benedict Canyon and butchering 133 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: Leno and rose Mary Lo Bianca and Los Felice. But 134 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: now cold case investigators and others say that Charles Manson 135 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: and his cult followers murdered many more people. LAPD officially 136 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: has a dozen unsolved homicides that they are linking to Manson. 137 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: There are other murders outside la that many believed to 138 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: be the work of the Manson family and some of 139 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: the connections are extremely, extremely believable, but he didn't just 140 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: apply them with dope. Listen to Diane Lake. For a 141 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl essentially living in a sex relationship 142 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: with a thirty four year old man, Charles Manson, I 143 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time, you know, just outside in 144 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: nature enjoying. And I did. I did enjoy living at 145 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: Spawn Ranch, beautiful hills and trees and rocks and little streams, 146 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: and I remember spending a lot of time out in nature. 147 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have sex every day. It was 148 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: not it was not that concentrated or that that wasn't 149 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: the total focus. You know, when you say we didn't 150 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: have sex every day, well, you know, Diane, most fourteen 151 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: year old girls don't have sex ever because it's actually 152 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: statutory rape. So to hear you say that, I just 153 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: think of you as a fourteen year old girl in 154 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: that world. You are hearing me speaking with the youngest 155 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: that we know of vance and follower, Diane Lake, and boy, 156 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: my eyes were opened up when I talked to her. 157 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: We learned that the LAPD is linking many, many more 158 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: murders to than Manson family. And this after Bruce Davis 159 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: who was sent us to death for murder the murders 160 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: of Shorty Shaye Garry Heman. You know, he was sentenced 161 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: to death. Then California got rid of the death penalty. 162 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 1: His sentence was commuted to life. He was actually granted parole. 163 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom overturns the decision straight back out to leave 164 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: ipage Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. Now, the LAPD 165 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: has absolutely linked multiple murders back to the Manson family. 166 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: Why now they're taking a second look at these cases 167 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: And a lot of the prosecutors in this case, Stephen 168 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: Kay and Vincent Bugliosi, have long thought that they were 169 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: connected to a lot of these murders. At the La 170 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: Times is publishing and writing about now, and what stands 171 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: out to me is we were talking about Sandra Good, 172 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: the young woman that Manson was infatuated with because she 173 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: got two grand a month from a trust fund. You 174 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: know back then that was a lot of money. And 175 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: her boyfriend was embarrassed that she was a member of 176 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: this cult and he was actually very depressed that she 177 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: was cheating on him, was a member of this cult, 178 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: and he was killed in a hotel in London. His 179 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: throat was slashed, and investigators in London determined that the 180 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: twenty nine year old killed himself from suicide. They say 181 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: he was depressed. However, what's so bizarre is that the 182 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: mirror in his hotel room actually had stuff written on it, 183 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: but investigators are not releasing what it was, and they 184 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: didn't take photographic evidence and save it. They just brushed 185 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: it off as a suicide. His throat was slashed and 186 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: so were his wrist. It was a bloody scene that 187 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: they just said was suicide. But what links this to 188 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: Manson is that Bruce Davis, he just mentioned, he was 189 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: a member of this cult. He had killed people, participated 190 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: in several murders. He was in London at the time 191 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: that Joel Pugh killed himself allegedly. He was a member 192 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: of the Church of Scientology and he was there in 193 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: London at the time that this young man allegedly killed himself. 194 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of people think that this 195 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: was not suicide, that this was murder, and that Bruce 196 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: Davis was involved in it too. Doctor Michelle Dupre, medical examiner, 197 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investiation Field Guide. As of right now, 198 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: the LPD is connecting Charles Manson and his groupies to 199 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: even more murders. Well, I'm glad they're doing it, but 200 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: in many people's books, it's a day late and a 201 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: dollar short, Doctor Michelle Dupree, What if anything can be 202 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: gained from the murder victim's bodies this long after the murders, Well, 203 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: a couple of things. Really. We can look at the 204 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: way that the person was murdered. A lot of times, 205 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: suspects have a certain preferred weapon. They also have a 206 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: certain method of doing things that have a signature. We 207 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: can tie those together. Certainly, there is any DNA we 208 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: can look at that. Even if we can't tie the 209 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: DNA to a person, we can tie it to the 210 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: same unknown suspect, and that helps us to provide linka 211 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: just to these other crimes as well as any Perhaps 212 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: Trice Aft wants you to hear what authorities have to 213 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: say about Jane Doe fifty nine, as she has been 214 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: called Jane Doe fifty nine. This is freelance reporter Robert 215 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: Dike dot an anatomy of her murder. Just four months 216 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: prior to the murder, members of the Manson family, living 217 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: at Spahn Ranch committed the infamous Tate La Bianca murders. 218 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: Authorities thought it was possible that the young woman may 219 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: have met her end at the hands of Manson and 220 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: his followers due to the close proximity of her dump 221 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: site to the Tate murder site. However, no strong leads 222 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: came from this. Jane Doe Number fifty nine's image was 223 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: reconstructed in hopes of gaining more exposure and recognition. However, 224 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: her body remained unidentified, so she was cremated and buried 225 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: in a mass grave. The box containing her case files, 226 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: dental records, fingerprints, and a blood soaked bra with her 227 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: DNA was filed away in an evidence locker with the 228 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: hope that someday someone would identify her. You are hearing 229 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: a freelance reporter, Rob Dyke in anatomy of a murder. 230 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: What I don't understand. If a freelance reporter knows this, 231 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: then how can police were not pursuing it. Take a 232 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: listen to Dike. When the LAPD formed its cold case 233 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: squad in the early two thousands, detective Cliff Shepherd discovered 234 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: the bloody bra in her case file and hoped it 235 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: could help family members identify Jane Doe. He submitted her 236 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: DNA into databases across the country and released her post 237 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: mortem photo to the DOE network and National Missing an 238 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: Unidentified Person's system. However, another decade passed without any answers 239 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: until twenty fifteen that childhood friends of a missing woman 240 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: from Montreal, Canada, spotted the profile of Jane Doe, number 241 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: fifty nine in the National Missing and Unidentified Person System. 242 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: They contacted Anne Jurvitson, who immediately recognized her sister and 243 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: the photos taken at the Morgue. In April of twenty sixteen, 244 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: a DNA test confirmed Anne Jurvitson's worst fears. Jane Doe's 245 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: real name was Rate Sylvia Jurvitson Rate Sylvia Jurvitson aka 246 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: Jane Doe fifty nine, believed to be yet another victim 247 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: of the Manson family due to proximity. At the time, 248 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: she was not identified and they cremated her. Oh, Dear Lord, 249 00:17:45,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: does it never end? Crime stories with Nancy Grace Great 250 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: Sylvia Jervison aka Jane Doe fifty nine, believed to be 251 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: yet another victim of the Manson family. At the time, 252 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: she was not identified and they cremated her. Police kept 253 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: a file however, included her blood soaked broad dental in 254 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: records and fingerprints which could be probitive filed away in 255 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: an evidence locker. To Stephen Lampley, detective an author of 256 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: Inside the Mind of a Serial Killer, Stephen Lampley, I 257 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: find it very difficult to believe that a young girl 258 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: like Riek Jervison ends up dead so close to the 259 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: Manson family farm, murdered. She fits the profile of all 260 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: his other followers. She was stabbed clearly, just like the 261 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: Tates and the lobbyonca is brutally stabbed and it was 262 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: never connected. I mean, it's so obvious to me. Steve Lampley, 263 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: What do you make of it? You're the expert inside 264 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: the mind of a serial killer? Man, see, I agree 265 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: with you. Now. Why they didn't make the connection Adam 266 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: a clue? I really don't know. But there were other murders, 267 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: as these other twelve proved as well, and Manson themselves said, 268 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: now he killed thirty five. Of course Manson is a 269 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: known liar, but there's no reason to believe that he 270 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: didn't kill thirty five, or maybe he killed fifty. There's 271 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: no way of knowing the problem we have, or they're 272 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: going to have is that in nineteen sixty in California, Nancy, 273 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: there were six hundred and sixteen murders. Now that increased 274 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: to around fourteen hundred in nineteen sixty nine. There was 275 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: a one hundred and twenty five percent increase in homicides 276 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: while there was only a twenty four percent increase in population. 277 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: So were any of these copycats? I don't know where 278 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: they're similar, just by nature that we don't know good 279 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: Manson doom at this point we're looking at that. So yeah, 280 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: but I agree with you. Why didn't stand out? I 281 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: really don't know why they didn't want it, didn't latch 282 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: onto that and go with it to you? Leavi Pays 283 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,239 Speaker 1: joining me crime online dot Com investigative reporter. What can 284 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: you tell me about a series of tapes that have 285 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: just been unearthed? Yes, these are tapes where some of 286 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: the members are talking about a lot of the unsolved 287 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: murders or suspicious debts here that we're discussing. And I 288 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: want to mention Riek Jervidson Nancy. She was stabbed one 289 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty times in the neck, and she went 290 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: to California, LA after meeting a Manson follower at a 291 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: coffee shop in Montreal. What are the chances that she 292 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: meets a Manson follower, moves to LA and then is 293 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: killed by someone else other than a Manson follower. I mean, 294 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: that seems extremely bizarre and strange that someone else outside 295 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: of the Manson family cult would end up killing. The 296 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: tapes seem to be very indicative that there are other 297 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: that there are other murders. The tapes include conversations between 298 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: convict to killer Charles Techs Watson and his lawyers, and 299 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: the LAPD got the tapes after a legal battle. What 300 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 1: do we know? We know that they seem to indicate 301 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: other murders were perpetrated by the Manson family. Now, a 302 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: judge ruled in twenty seventeen Leslie Van Houghton could not 303 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: have the recordings as part of her efforts to gain parole. 304 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: To Levi Page climb online dot Com investigative reporter Levi, 305 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: how did the La Times manage to get the tapes 306 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: and what if anything are they doing with them? So 307 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: they're reviewing these tapes to see to hear and listen 308 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: to these conversations between these cult members to see if 309 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: they can garner any clues and connect them to these 310 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: unsolved murders. And Stephen Kay, one of the prosecutors in 311 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 1: this case, and his partner, Vincent Bugliosi, had always suspected 312 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: that they were involved in more murders than what they 313 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: were convicted of. And it's so interesting that these tapes 314 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: are not made public. I think they should be made 315 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: public so that the public, the people out there, can 316 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: decide from themselves of whether or not a thorough investigation 317 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: was done, whether or not these killers, some of which 318 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: have been granted parole, are responsible for more murders. You know, 319 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: to Troy Slayton, veteran criminal defense attorney joined me from 320 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: that jurisdiction, did you know that Manson told Salemates he 321 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: was responsible for thirty five murders? What do you make 322 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 1: of that? You need other evidence, Nancy, Simply admitting to 323 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: a murder is not enough to convict a person of murder. 324 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: I could walk into the LAPD and say I committed 325 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: thirty five murders, arrest me, and I don't think they're 326 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: going to unless there's other evidence. So these tapes that 327 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: they fought to keep out of the hands of investigators 328 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: maybe may provide those clues. As far as police detectives 329 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: are concerned a case is never closed until there's a 330 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: conviction for murder. Well, this is what we know about 331 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: Jane Do fifty nine, also known as Rit Jervison. Now, 332 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: I was very friendly with Bougliosi. He wrote Helter Skelter. 333 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: As we all know, he was a proponent that she, 334 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: Jane Do fifty nine, was killed because she witnessed one 335 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: of the Man and Family murders. Listen to this. Joe 336 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, forensic expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet. 337 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: Jane Do fifty nine read was stabbed one hundred and 338 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: fifty times. A birdwatcher found her on mondel Holland Drive, 339 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: just six miles from Spawn Ranch where Benedict Canyon is 340 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: and where Tate and the others were killed, just six 341 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: miles from the Benedict Kenyon home where Sharon Tate was killed. 342 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: Now she's been identified. She was just nineteen years old 343 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: at the side at the time. She's been identified with DNA, 344 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: and she came to LA from Canada, and she joined 345 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: a guy that she thought looked like Jim Morrison. I mean, 346 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: obviously it's Charles Manson. Joe Scott Morgan, what do I 347 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: have to do connect the dots and send the picture 348 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: to the LAPD. Think that that's I think that it's 349 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: it's connectivity with all of these things. One of the 350 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 1: most striking things that kind of you know, floors you 351 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: is what you mentioned. What was that number you gave 352 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: me again relative to how many times she was stabbed? 353 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: She was stabbed one hundred and fifty times one hundred 354 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: and that sounds like a group killing. That sounds like 355 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: people were joining in on the stabbing, like murder on 356 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: the Orient express as anybody seen that act of the 357 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: Christie novel. Everybody had a reason to kill this one person, 358 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: and they all stabbed him, and there were multiple stab wounds. 359 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 1: It really threw kuere Parrot into a fit, let me 360 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: tell you. But one hundred and fifty stab wounds, that's 361 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: more than one person. Joe Scott helped me out here. Yeah, yeah, 362 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: it really is, unless unless you're dealing with a single person. 363 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: That is just so psychotic. But look look back at 364 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: what we're talking about relative to just as an example, 365 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: the Tate, the Tate murders, Uh, those those are a 366 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 1: signature of overkill. You've got this this bloody orgy that 367 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: is essentially taking place, and he cut these people loose, uh, 368 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: like like you know, guard dogs on these on these 369 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: poor victims, and just absolutely ripped them the shred and 370 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: the shreds. And this is one of the things that 371 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: we look for in these serialized events like this, this 372 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: signature pattern that goes along. And unfortunately this poor girl, uh. 373 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: And you know, having worked at the Emmy's office in 374 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: Atlanta and in New Orleans with a coroner's office, I've 375 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: been to these mass graves where we have to bury 376 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: bodies all at once. They've stopped cremating bodies nowadays, they 377 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: just bury them in mass graves. But in her case, 378 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: she was actually cremated. The family has nothing to go 379 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: back to. Fortunately, you know, they had this bra uh 380 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: that gave them some indication of who she was, and 381 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: they followed that thread. But but you know, she's just 382 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: one person and how many other person how many other 383 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: persons were there that he was cut loose upon. Take 384 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 1: a listen to Vinci Biliosi, the faint prosecutor who brought 385 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: down Manson, speaking to La Times writer Richard Winton here 386 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two, the California and US Supreme courts 387 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: both rule that the death penalty was unconstitutional. He I 388 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: think enjoys his notoriety steeped in infamy as it is. 389 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: You know, after my trial, or after my trying him 390 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: and convicted him, he told me, He says, you know, 391 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: mister Billiosi, you haven't achieved anything at all. All All you've 392 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: done is send me back to where I came from. 393 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: At We used to have sarcastic conversations back and forth. 394 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: And I said, yes, Charlie, but as far as I know, 395 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: you've never been to the green room before. That's the 396 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: apple green room at San Quentin, the gas chamber. He 397 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: just smiled. But the next year I was listening to 398 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: the radio and I heard that the Supreme Court United 399 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: States had set aside the death penalty. And the first 400 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: thought that came into my mind was what Manson had 401 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: told me. He gets out of prison in nineteen sixty seven, 402 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: thirty two years of age. Seventeen out of those thirty 403 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: two years has been spending jail's reformatories in prison, so 404 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: he doesn't mind prison life. He's totally institutionalized. Time stories 405 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. How does one person brainwash so many people? 406 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: Take a Listen to Charles Manson in his own word, 407 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 1: speaking to sixty Minutes Australia. Well you're happy when you 408 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: found out you weren't going to go to the gas chamber, Charleson, 409 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: I knew I wasn't going to go to the gas 410 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: chamber because I hadn't done anything wrong. You're scared to 411 00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: die sometimes I feel I'm scared to live. Living it's 412 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: what scares me. Dying is easy. How long have I 413 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: been in jail? Thirty four years? Thirty four years, so 414 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: out of forty seven, you've been here thirty four. I've 415 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: been in jail, prison a long time all my life. 416 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: I was raised up in here, so I understand jail, 417 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: so I understand myself and I can deal with that. 418 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: I sat in my cell and I do my number 419 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: like a convict does his number. But there's different colors 420 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: on different people's backs, doing different things. It's a different world. 421 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: I love the world I live into, just like Regan 422 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: loves the world he lives in. You love the world 423 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: you live in. Most shared Choice Layton, high profile criminal 424 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: defense attorney in LA without naming names, have you ever 425 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: had a client, a criminal defendant that seemed to have 426 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: mind control over codefendants I've had in my years as 427 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: an attorney and several years in the DA's office in 428 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, I've seen many co defendants who seem to 429 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: have had some sort of unusual power over other co defendants. 430 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't think I've had a case of mind control, 431 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: but it seems like there are undue pressures that several 432 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: co defendants could place, much like Manson had control over 433 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: all of the Manson family, as it's called. And so 434 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: LAPD now is looking at these twelve unsolved murders and 435 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: following every investigative lead that they can. And there are 436 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: several others in other jurisdictions besides LAPD that are still 437 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: looking at these cold cases to try and bring to 438 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, detective, author of Inside the Mind of a 439 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: Serial Killer. Why anybody would be brainwashed by somebody like 440 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: Charles Manson or let's just say Jim Jones, or there 441 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: was Sante and Kenneth Kimes. Kenneth Kimes is brainwashed by 442 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: his mother. How you get people to go along with you? 443 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: For instance, in the Sarah Stern murder The Teen Girl. 444 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: How in the world did Liam Mactasney get a friend 445 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: from high school to help get rid of her body. 446 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: I mean, how do they do it? What kind of 447 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: mind control do they work on? The codefendants? Well, and 448 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: they're charismatic, they're outgoing that the people like them. And 449 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: there's something that there's a condition called also called hybristophilia, 450 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: which is an attraction to dangerous people that actually exists 451 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: where people are attracted to their renegade direct bulls, the murderers, 452 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: if you will, James Warren James Jones was able to 453 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: con it's one hundred, couple hundred of folks. I don't 454 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: know the number. It's just people are looking and that's 455 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: the way that that's the way the gangs have succeeded. 456 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: They're looking for people who want to be a part 457 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: of something. They're looking for people who want to get 458 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: away from where they are and be a part of 459 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: something more, to be a part of a group, be 460 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: a part of a quote unquote family. I guess, if 461 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: you will, what about it? It's just Scott Morgan, you 462 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: and I have investigated so many cases. I've never understood 463 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: why people just fall in lockstep. And by the way, 464 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: lockstep is a referral back to Hitler and Nazi Germany 465 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: and the way thousands of people would march in lock 466 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: step at Hitler's behest, an evil, maniacal devil, and people 467 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: just followed along. And even to this day there are 468 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: nuts who insist that Hitler ever murdered millions of Jews 469 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: and others. It's incredible that people could think that at 470 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: the time, everyone followed along with him. Joe Scott, we've 471 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: seen it many many times before. Yeah, we have, Nancy, 472 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: and let me let me kind of let me kind 473 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: of paint Charles Manson in a different light here, and 474 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: I know that you've seen this. Charles Manson was nothing 475 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: more than a psychotic pimp, is what it comes down to. 476 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: That preyed on young girls. And you and I have 477 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: both seen these pimps out in the world of crime 478 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: that take these girls in, they use them for sex personally, 479 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: and then they sell them to people on the streets. 480 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: You know, Manson had a long history of pimping and 481 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: being involved in the flesh trade, if you will, And 482 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: when it comes down to it, he targets the most 483 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: vulnerable among us and that's how he got Look, these 484 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: people need a roof over their head, clothes on their back, 485 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: they'd like a little cash in their pocket, they want food, 486 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: and they're looking for somebody to parent them. And he 487 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: is just this kind of weasel. You know, all these 488 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: big pronouncements that he used to make from jail. He's 489 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: a tiny, diminutive guy. He's nothing more than a pimp 490 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: that's in a jail, has a low self esteem, and 491 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: he's just trying to protect hisself. He always dances around everything. 492 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 1: You listen to every conversation he's ever been in. He 493 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: will never directly admit to anything. He always puts it off. Well, 494 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: it's just the universe causing all of this stuff to happen. 495 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, he's a common petty 496 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: pimp that manipulated people. We wait as justice unfolds. Are 497 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 1: the murders connected to Charles Manson in a so called 498 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: family Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.