1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: The Michael Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Trump can't handle strong successful women. You can't handle women, 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: particularly strong women. Donald Trump, you never see him around 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: strong intelligent women. I'm woman. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 2: Hear me wrong? At fifty four years old. We will 7 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 2: undertake I am a job. The son of the Vietnam 8 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: War generation. It is probably the most profound, impactful historical 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: event in American history that gets the least amount of 10 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: attention relative to the impact it made on this country now. 11 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: It is more recent, of course, than say the Revolution 12 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: or the Civil War, World War One, or World War Two, 13 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: but the profound cultural change it precipitated cannot be measured 14 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 2: yet and will not be measured for decades to come. 15 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 2: Families torn apart, women left without their husbands, children left 16 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: without a father. In some cases, children made, father goes 17 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: to Vietnam, father does not come home except in a coffin, 18 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 2: and the child never knew their dad, a very, very 19 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: troubling scenario. Those who came home from World War Two 20 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: were heroes. Those who came home from Vietnam were spat upon. 21 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: There's been some argument over the last few years whether 22 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: they were spat upon or not, I've had enough tell 23 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 2: me they were that. I believe it, But either way 24 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: it was troubling. Why were we there, Why weren't we 25 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: winning when we left? Why did it take so long? 26 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 2: And how did the other side win, if in fact 27 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: they did, what were really the goals? These things bother me. 28 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: I wrestle with them, and I wrestle with them because, 29 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: as you know, I had a club called the RCC, 30 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: and I would get up every night that we had 31 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: a big concert, and I would say from the stage, Hey, 32 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: we're gonna do three things. You know, kiss your bride, 33 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 2: this is date night, or number two, make a friend 34 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: of number three. I want all my veterans come down. 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: And I would call out the veterans of every conflict, 36 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: including at that point when we started twenty thirteen, there 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 2: were still World War Two veterans Korea. I would skip 38 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: Vietnam and I would go to all of the conflicts since, 39 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: and then I would do Vietnam last, and I would 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: see grown men in their seventies, tears streaming down their faces, 41 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: and their children my age would come up to me afterwards. 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: They have never seen my dad cry. You hit him, 43 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: you punched him. In the gut. This was a moment 44 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: that he emoted publicly, and he's never done that. So 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: with that in mind, we do a fair number of 46 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: I don't like the word interview, I like the word 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: discussion on the subject of Vietnam, and today is further 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 2: to that point. The author of Flags of Our Fathers 49 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: has released a new book about the Vietnam War. It 50 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: is called Precious Freedom, a novel, and James Bradley, the author, 51 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: is our guest. Welcome to the program, James, Thank. 52 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: You, Michael. It's good to be with the czar. 53 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: Let's start with why I write this book. What's the purpose? 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: What do you hope to accomplish? 55 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: I tried to figure out what happened. I was thirteen 56 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: years old when my brother went off to the Marine 57 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Corps nineteen sixty seven. So I watched everything on TV 58 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: that Walter Cronkite had to tell me, and I wrote 59 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: a book, Flags of Our Fathers, about how my father 60 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: won with the Marine Corps in World War Two and 61 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: then we lost in Vietnam. So my brother's with the Marines, 62 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: my father's with the Marines. In one family and one generation, 63 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: totally different outcome. So I wrote four books on the 64 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: Pacific War, Why we got there, Teddy Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, 65 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: George Bush, my Houstonian buddy, getting shot down. And then 66 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: I thought, what about this Vietnam? So I went to Vietnam. 67 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: You know, I had four books under my belt, and 68 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: I thought, I'll just spend three years here and have 69 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: a book done. And it took me about eleven years 70 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: to figure out what happened. So the first reason it 71 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,799 Speaker 1: took me so long is because I had to disentangle 72 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,679 Speaker 1: from all the propaganda that we're still enmeshed with, even 73 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: the wording, even the wording. If you want me to continue, 74 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: or you want to, I mean, I can give you 75 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: some example. 76 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: James, I should have warned you when I am really 77 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: interested in an interview. My New Year's resolution this year 78 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: was to stop interrupting people. So I literally turned my 79 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: mic off and become a member of the audience. If 80 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: I need to interrupt you, I will, but by all 81 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 2: means speak on. I am listening, not waiting to ask 82 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: a question, but learning from you. 83 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: So you go ahead, Well, I'll give you some examples 84 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: of why I was dumbfounded. You know, this is after 85 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: reading like two hundred books on the Vietnam War. Interviewing 86 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: Vietnam vets, I was immersed in the American narrative. And 87 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: I go to Vietnam and I go in a veterans, 88 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: a Vietnamese veterans house, and he says, mister Bradley, look 89 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: at your feet, and my feet were in my socks 90 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: on his floor. And I said, what about him? And 91 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: he said, this was a marine base. Your brother thought 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,679 Speaker 1: this was American territory. He said, there was no north 93 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: in South Vietnam. He said, the New York Times drew 94 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: a line across the country called it the DMZ. We 95 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: never thought there was a north and south. He said. 96 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: I didn't think I needed a visa to visit my 97 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: uncle in another country. I mean, Michael, I had to 98 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: go back to my hotel room, like, oh my god. 99 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: This is like Canada invades Texas and draws the line 100 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: down the middle and says, now, look at Michael, there's 101 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: an East Texas in a West Texas. In East Texas 102 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: loves Canada and West Texas were the bad guys. And 103 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: there's two countries here. Michael, you wouldn't, I mean, what 104 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: are you talking about. You're from Canada. So we went 105 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: and we imposed. There was no DMZ, there was no 106 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 1: International boarder because Vietnamese never thought is the North invaded 107 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: the South. That was all made up gobblygook from the CIA, 108 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite, Ken Burns and every documentary you've ever seen. 109 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: So the Vietnam. You know, if if you look at 110 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,359 Speaker 1: a diagram of Vietnam, they say, we say, oh, we 111 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: sent your father to South Vietnam to fight North Vietnam 112 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: to make South Vietnam free. And the Vietnamese were like, 113 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: there's one Vietnam. Hanoi is the same as Saigon. There's 114 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: some traders that are bribed, you know, the guys who 115 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: ran South Vietnam, the Vietnamese. These were the guys who 116 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: fought for the French against so Chi Minh. So it's like, 117 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, Britain loses in the Revolutionary War, and then 118 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: Britain stays in like Virginia, let's say, and France comes 119 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: in and gives them money and they keep telling the British, 120 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's a there's a British America here. We 121 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: didn't really lose, and all the traders to the American 122 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: cause are getting pumped up with money. There was no 123 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: South in North Vietnam. That's one thing. Another thing. So 124 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: he took me about six months of dreaming key for 125 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: them to part the veil. I got to talk to 126 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: people VC viet Cong whod you know, never talked to foreigners. 127 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: It took so long to get into this. Mister Bradley, 128 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: you want to meet this famous sniper? And I said, yeah, sure, 129 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: So I'm thinking James. 130 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: Bradley, hold right there. I'm up against the break hold tie. 131 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: The book is called Precious Freedom, a novel. We'll continue 132 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: with our guest, James Bradley. You've got the Michael Berry Show. 133 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: James Bradley is our guest. He's the author of Flags 134 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: of Our Fathers. He has a new book about the 135 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 2: Vietnam War. It's called Precious Freedom, a novel. I had 136 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: to interrupt you in the middle. You were talking about 137 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 2: visiting the home of a Vietnamese Vietnam War veteran. Pick 138 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: up where you left off if you would please her. 139 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you want to meet it a famous sniper. Yeah, 140 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: of course, so sniper. You know, I'm thinking of a 141 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: lanky guy, you know, stumble and I walk in and 142 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,599 Speaker 1: it's a sixty five year old former principal, a female, 143 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: and she's sitting there. This is the famous sniper, and 144 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: this is what she's the main character in the book. 145 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: Her name is May. May said mister Bradley. When I 146 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: was fifteen years old, a marine walked into my front yard, 147 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: shot my father in the head and killed them. And 148 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: I said to myself, I'm going to kill every American 149 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: I ever see. So I'm an American in her living 150 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: room and I said, well, how did you do? She said, 151 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: I killed five Americans. It's easy if you have patients. 152 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: So she was fifteen, you know. We asked like, how 153 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: do people get radicalized? Why do they hate us? Well, 154 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm from Wisconsin. If a Canadian walked into my front 155 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: yard shot my dad in the head, I can recognize 156 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: that Canadian uniform. I know exactly what those Canadian helmets 157 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: look like. I'm fIF I'm going to run to the 158 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: forest get trained like she did. And she sat up 159 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 1: in a tree and she snipered to death five Marines. 160 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: She probably killed twenty to thirty, but she got medals 161 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: for five that were witnessed. Now, the number one Marine sniper, 162 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: there's a book about him, Carlos halfcocked he's very, very famous. Carlos, 163 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: he snipered ninety two to death. I've got a picture 164 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: I'm looking at right now of a beautiful Vietnamese girls. 165 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: She's twenty two years old. She killed one hundred and 166 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: seventy four Americans. It was their country. They were not 167 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: in uniforms. They could be up in trees. I mean, 168 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: think of it. When you're fifteen and a foreign army 169 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: comes into town. Well, the foreign army's in a bunch, 170 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: they're in a group, they're making noise. They come in 171 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: armored carriers, and you're fifteen sitting there barefoot, and you 172 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: know all the alleyways. I could run like four or 173 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: five blocks across my hometown when I was fifteen at night, 174 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: and I knew where every fence was and where every 175 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: open window was, and you know a basement that was 176 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: open in somebody's house. And they just energized all these kids. 177 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: And what the book is about. My brother goes to 178 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: this base called dong Ha. It's a marine base, well 179 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: the Marines, and this is not publicized. It's hard to 180 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: find this. They leave in nineteen sixty nine, not nineteen 181 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: seventy five. With the helicopters. The Marines are pushed out. Well, 182 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 1: they weren't pushed out by the North Vietnamese army. They 183 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: were pushed out by kids, by civilians with old French rifles. 184 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: They were being tricked and snipered. So another story. I'm 185 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: thirteen watching Walter Cronkite CBS News and they show me 186 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: Route nine. Well, what's Route nine. It cuts across the 187 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: neck of Vietnam, right below the DMZ, so it goes 188 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: from the South China Seed to Laos and it's the 189 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: main thoroughfare and Route nine. I saw it. I remember, 190 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm thirteen and there's the news. Here's Route nine, and 191 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: the Marines are in complete control. I saw tanks and 192 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: armored cars and well I went out with the with 193 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: the tiger of Route nine. Mister Soone, who's in the book? 194 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: And I said, mister Soone, I remember seeing this on 195 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: TV with marines all over and he said, yeah, you 196 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: didn't see me in the pictures in the film. I said, 197 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: what do you mean? He said, we never fought during 198 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: the day, he said, mister Bradley, all those newsreels you 199 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: saw of Vietnam, he said, those are all shot during 200 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: the day. We didn't fight during the day. We were 201 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: sleeping during the day, talking to our girlfriends, doing medical care, 202 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, judicial work, getting food in in these underground 203 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: cities that we had. And he said, we came out 204 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: at night. He said, it's easy to be successful at night. 205 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: He said, your brother probably never swept hardly slept the 206 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: wink at night because we were, you know, attacking. So Michael, 207 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: every day at four pm, the Marines retreated from Route 208 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: nine and I'm like, oh my god, we never controlled Vietnam. 209 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: We said we controlled Vietnam, like this area, that area, 210 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: it's under control. We never controlled it for a full 211 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: twenty four hour period. The Marines had to retreat every 212 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: single day at four pm and foxholes or you know, 213 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: put out the concertina wire and the mines and all 214 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: this and prepare for the night. And that's when the 215 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: Vietnamese came out. I saw, I saw guys, specially forces Vietnamese. 216 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: They were trained to spider walk through these minefields, you know, 217 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: like acrobats. They built replicas of this, and they knew 218 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: how to like spider walk, clip all the wires and 219 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: then boom. Their buddies would come and the Marines would 220 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: be hunkered down. The guys on the perimeter might get shot. 221 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: The guys inside, you know, jangled nerves. And then when 222 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: they came out in the morning, they had to mind 223 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: sweep the area. Again. The Marines couldn't just get up 224 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: and run out of their of their sleeping quarters. They 225 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: had to have mine sweepers. So you know, I'm like, what, 226 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: you didn't fight during the day, he said, No, Ho 227 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: Chi Minh said, the Americans had surveillance during the day. 228 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: Why would we go out during the day and you 229 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: guys had an air force. We didn't have an air force, 230 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: he said. We were sleeping during the day, and it's 231 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: hot as hell during the day, so we let the 232 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: Marines go out and sweat and not find us, and 233 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: then we came out at night when it's easy to 234 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: be successful. So I'll tell you, mister son takes me 235 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: to a battle site. Now, if you listen to Americans, 236 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: we think in terms of battles. Rat cat, that cat. 237 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: You know, thirty guys there and thirty guys here, and 238 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: we're fighting like a football game. You know, thirty here, 239 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: thirty there, Boom boom boom. And he said, I'll take 240 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: you out to this battle. So we go out. Well, 241 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: the Americans landed with a helicopter on a river bank, 242 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: and then they had to walk along a trail on 243 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: the river and go through a village. And then the 244 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: intelligence was was that there was VC up in the 245 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: hills after the village. So they walked through the village 246 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: and the village has the usual toothless gramma on grandpa's 247 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: and little kids. Well that was the intelligence net for 248 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: the vietnamemes. Those grandmas were measured, were memorizing every single 249 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: This guy had a handgun, and that guy was pointing 250 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: his rifle best way, and the radio man was in 251 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: the fourth position, and they were memorizing everything. So the 252 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: marines go up into the hills. Well, the VC they 253 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: were looking for was hiding behind the village. And then 254 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: they came out and interviewed all the grandmas and grandpa's 255 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: and they got they got one fat. When the marines 256 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: walked through the village, they walked with their rifles pointed down. 257 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: James B. 258 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: James Bradley is our guest. The book is called Precious Freedom, 259 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 2: a novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers 260 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: More on Very Troubled Vietnam Are James Bradley is our 261 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: guest The book is called Precious Freedom, a novel. He 262 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: is the author of Flags of Our Fathers. James, let 263 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: me ask you a question. I am a believer in 264 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 2: picking at scabs, and and whether that is the deaths 265 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 2: caused by the COVID virus, for instance, or the lies 266 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 2: about weapons of mass destruction. And one of the things 267 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: I find is that one has to tread lightly. Let's 268 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: take Vietnam for instance. We love and respect and honor 269 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: the people like your brother who went off to war. 270 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: Many of them didn't sign up to go serve. Many 271 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 2: of them were drafted. The most recent the last time 272 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 2: that happened in America. So you really have some folks 273 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 2: that are walking the streets on Monday, and on Tuesday 274 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: their ping pong ball comes up and they're sent off 275 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: to war. They were not ready for this and certainly 276 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: didn't want to go, but they didn't flee. They didn't, 277 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: you know, take deferments and do all that. How do 278 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 2: you navigate such an honest conversation where you're doing what 279 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: I think the scientific method and good journalism, good investigation requires, 280 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: and that is asking tough questions. Because, as I would say, 281 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: of a number of our conflicts, It's not the problem 282 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 2: of our boys. It's the problem of our generals and 283 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: our government putting people in a bad situation. How do 284 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: you navigate that without I don't think you intend to 285 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 2: dishonor Vietnam American Vietnam veterans, So how do you navigate that? 286 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: I am trying to help the Vietnam veterans out. I'm 287 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: this is this is here's a sad fact. I'm the 288 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: only American author that ever went to Vietnam and asked 289 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: the people who won the war, how did you win? 290 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean I caddied for Vince Lombardi of the Green 291 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: Bay Packers, Bart Starloud three doors down up at bass Lake, 292 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: and it was win or lose. And when you lost, 293 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: you studied. We looked at the films. How did we lose? Well? 294 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: The United States got kicked out of Vietnam, and we 295 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: never admitted why and had nothing to do with these 296 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: vets that were had nothing to do with my brother 297 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: or your father. It had to do with our leadership. 298 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: And this is not me analyzing this. Commandant David Shupe 299 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: US Marine Commandant David Shue Medal of Honor winner TARROWA 300 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,479 Speaker 1: tarrowa World War two Medal of Honor. He was giving 301 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: speeches all over the United States in the nineteen sixties saying, 302 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 1: Hoaching Min has a plan to beat us. They're fighting 303 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: that night. We can never beat the Vietnamese because they'll 304 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: spend twenty years in this war. They have nowhere to go. 305 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: And that David Shoope you'll see in the book, is 306 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: tirelessly saying LBJ and all these guys know that we 307 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: can't win. He said, this is not James Bradley, this 308 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: is Commandant Medal of Honor, David Shupe saying this war 309 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: Vietnam is not worth the life of one American man. 310 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: We should get out of there immediately. They're line to you. 311 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:11,959 Speaker 1: The leadership, the leadership of America, including the press, screwed 312 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: the American veterans. And that's the purpose of this book. 313 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,479 Speaker 1: I went and said, how did you win? And I 314 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: was shocked that David Shupe and other guys were technically, strategically, 315 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: tactically giving speeches about how we knew we couldn't win. 316 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: But there were some top guys, you know. I mean, 317 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 1: let's talk about Brown and Root and Haliburton and Bell 318 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: Helicopter and Lyndon Johnson getting rich, you know, Johnson said 319 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: to the Joint Chiefs the Staff after they offed JFK 320 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: at nineteen sixty three Christmas party in the White House. 321 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: Johnson said to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, you give 322 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: me my election, and I'll give you your war. They wanted 323 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: war because it was just going to last a few months, 324 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: and it was going to test out some fancy weapons. 325 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: And they had no idea that they were going to 326 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: toss in the blood of you know, the guys I 327 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: went to high school with. And I'm pissed about it, 328 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: and somebody should be held to account. And it's not 329 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: the veterans. They were put in an impossible situation and 330 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: this is not again. You know, you can say James Bradley, 331 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: never served, doesn't know what he's talking about. Maybe I don't, 332 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: but Commandant David shupe knew what he was talking about, 333 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: and he said, this is a loser before we go in. 334 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I guess our next question is I'm 335 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: going to ask the question. It's going to seem like 336 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: a stupid question, but I assure you I've spent a 337 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: lot of time pondering this, studying this in your heart 338 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: of hearts. Why do you think we were really there. 339 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: We were there because to the Vietnam War. You know, 340 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: if you look at ken Burns and Walter Cronkite and 341 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: all these propaganda things. Kennedy was juggling some hot balls 342 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: and then it exploded in Johnson and all of a sudden, 343 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, Tonking, No, no, no, no, no. Harry Truman 344 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: started the Vietnam War. We sent the equipment that was 345 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: out in the Pacific to Vietnam, and in August of 346 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, before even Japan surrendered all that equipment 347 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: out there, Charles de Gaulle said, we have to reassert 348 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: France in Vietnam. And Harry Truman, you know, where's Vietnam. 349 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: I don't know anything about Asia. I'm Harry Truman. And 350 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 1: de Gaulle said, there's communists out there and you gotta 351 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: get him. So we supported France. Well, who was the 352 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: head of the Congressional Committee, the Naval Affairs Committee, that 353 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: moved that equipment in nineteen forty five out to Vietnam. 354 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: It was a guy called Lyndon Johnson. Lyndon Johnson's Vietnam 355 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: War began in August of nineteen forty five, not nineteen 356 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: sixty four, we were supplying ninety percent of the French 357 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: costs of the Vietnam War. People say, oh, Vietnamization. Let's 358 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: see Vietnamization. That's Richard Nixon nineteen seventy No, no, no, no, no. 359 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm looking at a photo of Richard Nixon in nineteen 360 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: fifty three in Vietnam when the French were losing and 361 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: they said we have this plan called Vietnamization, and Nixon 362 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: and Eisenhawer said great, We'll give you all the money 363 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: you need. And then the French blew it at Den 364 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: Ben in nineteen fifty four. We fought the Vietnam War 365 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: for thirty years, nineteen forty five to nineteen seventy five. 366 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: Isn't din Bin Wu where the French were absolutely routed. 367 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was all I interviewed guys. You'll see 368 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: in the book the Vietnamese winners are jumping over crates 369 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: at Denvinpuke, and it says in the USA all that 370 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: was when we were told the French were doing that, right, right, right? 371 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 2: No, No, I think that is consistent. I think that 372 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: tracks whatever they said because there was an interest for 373 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: the United States in keeping a colonial power in Southeast 374 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: Asia at that time, and the French were trying to 375 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: manage the last remnants of their empire. They were also 376 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: having they also had a lot of trouble in Africa 377 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: at the same time. In our involvement to a limited extent, 378 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 2: not in a little less than Lynn Lease in World 379 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 2: War Two, but there's no doubt that there was involvement. 380 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: James Bradley is our guest. His book is called Precious 381 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 2: Freedom a Novel. He's the author of Flags of Our Fathers. 382 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: And we will continue our conversation with him for one 383 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: more segment coming back Joey. 384 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: Kung on Michael Bay Good Show on Bolklum. 385 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: James Bradley's our guest. He's the author of Flags of 386 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: Our Fathers. He's written a new book about the Vietnam 387 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: War called Precious Freedom, a Novel. James, I want to 388 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 2: get into a couple of things that are not as 389 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: much in the book, But about the book, I've talked 390 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 2: a little bit about the Vietnam veterans. I have a 391 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 2: number of Vietnam veterans in our listening audience. Have you 392 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: have you tested this with the Vietnam I'm just curious 393 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 2: how what the response of Vietnam veterans has been It's 394 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 2: clear to me your intentions are pure, but I'm just 395 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: curious what it's been. 396 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: They finally know the truth. It's sad to say I'm 397 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: the only American author that went to Vietnam and said, 398 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: how did you win? The American narrative If you read 399 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: two hundred books on Vietnam, it's boy. I went there 400 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: and we did all the stuff, and boy, it was 401 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: really but they don't get to the bottom line, you know, 402 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: but we lost. It didn't work out. So we were 403 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: doing all these technically amazing things. The vets performed well, 404 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: the soldiers and marines performed like they were trained. But 405 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: if you put them in a situation where they cannot win, 406 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: and you know that in advance, these guys, we should 407 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: burn down the LBJ library. McNamara should be dug up. 408 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: If you read this book, and our Vietnam veterans should 409 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: be honored. The Vietnam vets who I've looked at this 410 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: book love it because they finally know. Oliver Stone says 411 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: about this book and on the back cover, he says, 412 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: if we knew back in the sixties what James Bradley 413 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: has revealed American mothers would have never sent their sons 414 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: to Iraq and Afghanistan. This twenty years is screwing around 415 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: thirty years in Vietnam, twenty years in Afghanistan. These are deaths, 416 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: these are limbs that are lost. And it's not the 417 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: fault of the fighting men and women. It is the 418 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: fault of our leadership. And that includes the media. And 419 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: you'll see it in the book. How is it possible 420 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: that a Medal of Honor winner is giving speeches in America? 421 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,239 Speaker 1: He said, the Joint Chiefs we looked at Vietnam and 422 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: we said there's absolutely no way we can win. So 423 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: what Johnson did is cleaned out that Joint Chiefs of 424 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: Staff and got a bunch of guys who would agree 425 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: to go in Vietnam. He had to pump up, you know, 426 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 1: those suitcases of cash. And there's many other reasons. 427 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 2: The book is precious freedom and novel by the author 428 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: of Flags of Our Fathers. James Bradley. You made a 429 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: reference in our first segment today and I want to explore. 430 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: You. 431 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: You bundled the Cia kN Burns and Walter Kronkite. I 432 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 2: have a very very healthy skepticism of a lot of 433 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: people who are supposed to historians or newsmen. And I 434 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: think that the CIA has caused us many problems abroad 435 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 2: and lied to the American people in order to still 436 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: be able to get young men to go and fight 437 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: their wars. What was your meaning behind ken Burns and 438 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: Walter Kronkite? And the suggestion was that not only were 439 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: they not perhaps being honest about what was happening in Vietnam, 440 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 2: but that they were reading from a CIA script. I 441 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: don't want to put words in your mouth. That's the 442 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: sense I got. 443 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: Well, CIA script. It's like, if you want to be 444 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: in the game, you got to play with these guys. 445 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean the ken Burns thing. I was living in 446 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Vietnam when that documentary came out, and it was like 447 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 1: hot peals of lofts. The American vets watching it with 448 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: me in Vietnam. Most of the so called Vietnamese telling 449 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: the truth and the ken Burns documentary are CIA connected. 450 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: There's a woman whose husband was you know, working you know, Bob. 451 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: I mean it would take twenty minutes to do the 452 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 1: names and the connections. But ken Burns flew in and 453 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: out of Vietnam. You know who was in the editing 454 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: room with Ken Burns, the John McCain's ghostwriter, Mark Salter. Yeah, Ken, 455 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: you can say this. Yeah, Senator McCain approves this and that. 456 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: You know, how are you going to get on PBS 457 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: public broadcasting systems supported by the United States government and 458 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: tell the truth about Vietnam? If they told the truth 459 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: about Vietnam on PBS, they'd burned down the LBJ library. 460 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: This is three to five million Vietnamese dead, fifty eight 461 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: thousand Americans on the wall. There's three hundred thousand wounded 462 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: Americans wheelchairs, crutches, and the military knew. The top ranks 463 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: of the military had all agreed, well, we can't win 464 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: this puppy, but we'll just throw the American boys into 465 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: the Charnel house here and see what happens. 466 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 2: It is very troubling to me to think how many 467 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: people of my father's generation and now over the last 468 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: particularly the last twenty five years. You know, I go 469 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 2: back to as late as as the botched Afghanistan would 470 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 2: draw and I think of how many men with the 471 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 2: best of intentions from small towns all across Texas, the 472 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 2: South and the country who when we were attacked on 473 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: nine to eleven or when they see the news of 474 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 2: America being attacked, their inner sheep dog comes out, and 475 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 2: they are willing to give no greater love hath any 476 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: man than it laid down his life for a friend. 477 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: They're willing to give the one thing that they have, 478 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: which is their life, for their country. And I think 479 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: we should honor that by never taking them up on 480 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 2: it unless it is absolutely necessary. And I see these 481 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: conflicts that are started on false premises, and by the way, 482 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: I think you can make mistakes. I think we learned 483 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: a lot of things in Vietnam that maybe were different 484 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: than we expected. But I think you owe a duty 485 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: to these young men and their commitment and their sacrifice 486 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: to say, all right, let's pull back. When Nixon begins 487 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: bombing in Cambodia, because it's a parallel pathway without congressional authority, 488 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 2: that is an overstep on a level that I don't 489 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: see any way you come back from. You are the 490 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: complete imperial presidency at that point, and if Congress does 491 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 2: not rain that in, I don't care Domino theory or not, 492 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: Kissinger or whatever or not. That to me is a 493 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 2: very very bad moment. 494 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: There. My dad fought on the Rejima there were colonels 495 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: in front of him. There were colonels getting shot, getting 496 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: blown up, you know, leading. Come on, boys, they were 497 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: right out in front Vietnam. The colonels were in air 498 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: conditioned helicopters. You know, you boys, go out there. The 499 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: colonels weren't leading. The military changed, Michael, after World War Two. 500 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: It's a different military now. There was like one. I mean, 501 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: look at the general failures we have. Now, there was like, 502 00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, like twelve generals running the world War War 503 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: two something like that. Five starts, you know, I mean, 504 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: I'm getting off on the statistics. But now there's all 505 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: sorts of generals and admirals all over I have been 506 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: to the bases all over the world. We've got you know, 507 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: a thousand bases with burger kings and schools and you know, 508 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: paved roads and you know, people taking care of apartment buildings. 509 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: We have an empire. When my dad fought, it was 510 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: the War Department, and we knew how to do it. 511 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: And there were generals getting killed and colonel's getting killed 512 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: leading from the firm Vietnam. No, they pushed those boys 513 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: out there and said you do it. 514 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And that was James Bradley, I'm up 515 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 2: against the clock. I appreciate your time, Okay. He's the 516 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 2: author of Flags of Our Fathers. His newest book is 517 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: Precious Freedom, a novel about the Vietnam One Thank you 518 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 2: and goodnight.