WEBVTT - Giles Martin, Part 1 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.636 Pushkin. Giles Martin may be the son of famed Beatles 0:00:22.636 --> 0:00:25.716 record producer Sir George Martin, but he's also an acclaimed 0:00:25.756 --> 0:00:29.236 record producer and composer and his own right. He's won 0:00:29.316 --> 0:00:32.276 multiple Grammys and an Emmy for his work across TV, 0:00:32.716 --> 0:00:36.756 music and film. He's worked on projects with The Rolling Stones, 0:00:36.996 --> 0:00:41.036 Elton John and Metallica, and is celebrated for his work 0:00:41.196 --> 0:00:45.636 remastering albums from the Beatles, including Sergeant Pepper's Abbey Road 0:00:45.876 --> 0:00:50.596 and The White Album. Last October, giles remaster for Revolver 0:00:50.796 --> 0:00:54.076 was released, along with never before heard home demos and 0:00:54.156 --> 0:00:57.716 outtakes from the Beatles. Giles was able to separate the 0:00:57.756 --> 0:01:01.476 original nineteen sixty six mono recording tracks with the help 0:01:01.476 --> 0:01:05.396 of director Peter Jackson's audio team, who used AI technology. 0:01:06.116 --> 0:01:09.636 Giles's resulting mix allows listeners to hear with clarity in 0:01:09.676 --> 0:01:14.836 precision their original recordings like never before. On today's episode, 0:01:14.916 --> 0:01:17.556 Rick Rubin talks to Giles Martin about his approach to 0:01:17.596 --> 0:01:21.636 remastering the Beatles and the responsibility that comes along with it. 0:01:21.756 --> 0:01:24.356 Giles also talks about growing up in the music industry 0:01:24.716 --> 0:01:27.556 and how he became his dad's ears and studio sessions 0:01:27.796 --> 0:01:33.796 when his father lost his hearing. This is broken record 0:01:34.116 --> 0:01:37.876 liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's 0:01:37.956 --> 0:01:40.956 Rick Rubin in conversation with Giles Martin from Shangri La. 0:01:41.916 --> 0:01:46.036 Tell me growing up in the house that you grew 0:01:46.116 --> 0:01:48.036 up in. We didn't have talked about this before, so 0:01:48.076 --> 0:01:51.196 this is interesting. What's it like growing up in such 0:01:51.236 --> 0:01:55.276 a musical household? Let's start like that. Well, it's really hard. 0:01:55.316 --> 0:01:57.156 Like people said to me, what's what was it like 0:01:57.276 --> 0:02:00.316 growing ving George Martin as a as a father, and 0:02:00.396 --> 0:02:02.596 you go, I never had a different father. I never 0:02:02.596 --> 0:02:04.476 had different dads, So I don't know, but it was. 0:02:04.796 --> 0:02:06.636 I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what the difference is. 0:02:06.716 --> 0:02:08.756 And this is what I try and encourage my kids 0:02:08.756 --> 0:02:12.196 and other people with kids. It's like music wasn't something 0:02:12.876 --> 0:02:15.956 that was distant from me. Like playing an instrument wasn't 0:02:15.996 --> 0:02:17.636 something that was a stranger too, because my dad was 0:02:17.636 --> 0:02:19.996 sitting for the piano. When I was about four years old. 0:02:20.676 --> 0:02:23.036 They said in my playgroup, what is your dad doing? 0:02:23.036 --> 0:02:24.956 People come, my dad's a lawyer, my dad's or whatever 0:02:24.996 --> 0:02:27.156 it is, and I'd say, my dad just sits home 0:02:27.156 --> 0:02:29.116 and plays the piano, and I think he was running 0:02:29.116 --> 0:02:30.556 the music for the Live and Let Die the Bond 0:02:30.556 --> 0:02:31.996 film at that time. I think that's that was If 0:02:32.036 --> 0:02:33.916 I look at the era, it was around about ninety 0:02:33.956 --> 0:02:38.196 seventy four, So music was natural thing. What's interesting The 0:02:38.196 --> 0:02:41.076 Beatles didn't it really exist to my household. It was 0:02:41.156 --> 0:02:42.596 not that they were banned from the house. I mean 0:02:42.636 --> 0:02:44.196 we had a copy of Abbey Road and that was it. 0:02:44.276 --> 0:02:46.956 I think, really yeah, I did because it was something 0:02:47.036 --> 0:02:49.796 he did. I understood. And you know, you've always been 0:02:49.836 --> 0:02:51.956 progressive in your life. You can always bring your work 0:02:51.956 --> 0:02:54.196 life home. Yeah, but it's also it's what you did, 0:02:54.596 --> 0:02:56.596 what you're interesting about, what you're doing or what you're 0:02:56.596 --> 0:02:59.996 going to do. And that's what people don't realize. Was 0:03:00.036 --> 0:03:02.836 your dad home a lot? Or was he at studio daily? Like? 0:03:02.916 --> 0:03:05.956 Tell me what what were days like? It's hard to 0:03:06.356 --> 0:03:09.476 a long time ago. Yeah, but yeah, no, he he 0:03:09.516 --> 0:03:11.716 was pretty good. He always said that he wasn't around enough. 0:03:12.156 --> 0:03:14.596 It was interesting. I had a nanny. I had a 0:03:14.636 --> 0:03:17.196 male nanny who was There was a band, a seventies 0:03:17.196 --> 0:03:20.116 band called Stackridge he worked with, and the drummer from 0:03:20.116 --> 0:03:23.636 Stackridge was unhappy being the drummer and Stackridge and became 0:03:24.196 --> 0:03:26.676 looked after us kids. So I had a drummers as 0:03:26.716 --> 0:03:29.036 a nanny, and my dad would be at the studios, 0:03:29.036 --> 0:03:30.956 but I would go and see him. I mean he 0:03:31.036 --> 0:03:32.716 was at a place for air studios which is in 0:03:32.836 --> 0:03:34.956 Oxford Street. It's where Nike Town is now if it's 0:03:34.956 --> 0:03:37.156 in London, they got Oxford Circus Nike Town as well, 0:03:37.196 --> 0:03:39.796 and it was the top of that building. And I 0:03:39.796 --> 0:03:41.596 remember as a kid he had two officers. He had 0:03:41.636 --> 0:03:44.036 one he was part of Chrysalas Records at the time 0:03:44.316 --> 0:03:46.716 and that was his that was obviously a record company, 0:03:46.756 --> 0:03:48.276 and I just found that really boring. I was going 0:03:48.316 --> 0:03:50.356 to see him there. And the other was the studios, 0:03:50.356 --> 0:03:53.596 which one would have an elevator to quite high up, 0:03:53.636 --> 0:03:55.476 probably the fourth floor as far as you know us 0:03:55.476 --> 0:03:57.956 Britz goes, which is really high up for us. And 0:03:58.276 --> 0:04:00.516 there were corridors and there was long corridor. At the 0:04:00.556 --> 0:04:02.756 end of the corridor was a hot chocolate machine and 0:04:02.876 --> 0:04:06.036 it was free. But on the doors which corridor, there 0:04:06.036 --> 0:04:08.676 were rooms where things would happen. There were runs where 0:04:08.716 --> 0:04:12.596 they would be musicians and speakers and noise and I 0:04:12.636 --> 0:04:14.596 could sense even then as like a four or five 0:04:14.676 --> 0:04:16.876 year old or six year old, or I could sense 0:04:16.956 --> 0:04:19.476 that this was different from an office. This was different, 0:04:19.516 --> 0:04:21.756 This had a different feel to it. It was perfect 0:04:21.836 --> 0:04:24.276 natural for me to be in that environment because I 0:04:24.276 --> 0:04:27.236 didn't know any different. What would be the music playing 0:04:27.236 --> 0:04:30.796 in your household other than your dad playing piano. Well, 0:04:30.876 --> 0:04:34.036 here's the here's the thing. We didn't have a stereo 0:04:34.116 --> 0:04:38.236 system in our house because my mum didn't like speakers. 0:04:38.996 --> 0:04:41.036 My dad used to didn't like the way they looked 0:04:41.036 --> 0:04:42.956 with the way they sounded or the way they looked 0:04:43.076 --> 0:04:45.916 where they looked. We did eventually get get a high 0:04:45.916 --> 0:04:48.236 fi so me and my sister had had a record 0:04:48.276 --> 0:04:51.556 player and we would listen to and we would get records. 0:04:52.436 --> 0:04:54.396 We weren't I don't think we were terribly spoiled children. 0:04:54.396 --> 0:04:56.716 We get record quite offen. Records we got were records 0:04:56.756 --> 0:04:59.516 from my dad or labels and stuff like that, and 0:04:59.596 --> 0:05:02.196 they would be very I remember, like we used to 0:05:02.196 --> 0:05:05.236 listen like even the Quietest Moments by Supertramp, which is 0:05:05.236 --> 0:05:07.436 an album that came out and as Peter Henderson was 0:05:07.436 --> 0:05:11.036 the engineer, like who we knew? Or there was like 0:05:11.076 --> 0:05:14.076 a Carol King album called Chicken Soup and something like that. 0:05:14.076 --> 0:05:16.076 I alays thought Carol King was this sort of New 0:05:16.076 --> 0:05:18.756 England housewife that made things. That I worked with her 0:05:18.756 --> 0:05:20.636 and met her, I realized that she's more like doctor Ruth. 0:05:20.636 --> 0:05:23.276 Funny enough, it's a character. She's brilliant. Carrol Kings, She's 0:05:23.276 --> 0:05:26.116 found like the sort of this hot wire. There were 0:05:26.116 --> 0:05:28.156 there were so there were these records that you know, 0:05:28.196 --> 0:05:30.076 I was worried. We had a stand Gets album because 0:05:30.076 --> 0:05:31.836 he was he worked with Stan Getz, and so we 0:05:31.916 --> 0:05:33.756 had these albums that my dad had made and the 0:05:33.876 --> 0:05:37.516 Maravisional Orchestra for example, Jeff Beck, blow by Blow. These 0:05:37.516 --> 0:05:39.276 albums that they were. They were the albums because they 0:05:39.276 --> 0:05:41.756 were free. And then obviously as kids, you you end 0:05:41.876 --> 0:05:44.916 up buying you know, Bowie records. And I remember I 0:05:44.916 --> 0:05:47.476 had Transformed. I was obsessed by Transformer by lou Reid, 0:05:47.516 --> 0:05:50.156 you know, for instance, away these records. But I remember 0:05:50.276 --> 0:05:52.796 my dad. My buid the memory with my dad's sitting 0:05:52.796 --> 0:05:55.356 outside a house in the car and listening to the 0:05:55.356 --> 0:05:58.396 work he was doing because we didn't have a stereo 0:05:58.396 --> 0:06:01.276 at home in our living room as it were. So 0:06:01.396 --> 0:06:03.436 many people do listen to music in the car. It's 0:06:03.476 --> 0:06:05.076 not a bad place to listen to music. No, it's 0:06:05.116 --> 0:06:06.396 good as you know, you and I both was a 0:06:06.436 --> 0:06:08.756 good place to check mix. It absolutely felt less so 0:06:08.876 --> 0:06:11.036 now funny because cars now do stuff to audio that 0:06:11.156 --> 0:06:13.356 we don't want them to do. But yeah, usually you 0:06:13.356 --> 0:06:16.756 can turn it off though, yeah yeah, yeah, but it's 0:06:16.836 --> 0:06:20.116 like a second. You know, audio has become more sophisticated 0:06:20.116 --> 0:06:22.516 at the same time, less sophisticate in a way, and 0:06:22.756 --> 0:06:25.356 technology companies decide to do things to our music that 0:06:25.436 --> 0:06:27.596 maybe we don't do them to do. They just want 0:06:27.636 --> 0:06:28.796 to go. I want to listen to card because I 0:06:28.796 --> 0:06:30.996 want to listen to what it sounds like. Simply. That's 0:06:31.036 --> 0:06:33.036 it's an interesting thing to talk about. I know that 0:06:33.036 --> 0:06:38.996 that was a big when the Beatles catalog was streamed, 0:06:39.316 --> 0:06:41.516 when they decided to stream for the first time. Yeah, 0:06:42.196 --> 0:06:45.356 you were involved in the way that was handled and 0:06:45.396 --> 0:06:48.596 it was different than the way most other maybe all 0:06:48.636 --> 0:06:52.756 of their music was streamed. Tell me about that. You know, 0:06:53.036 --> 0:06:55.436 I never planned on being involved with the Beatles, you know, 0:06:55.476 --> 0:06:58.116 I wanted to be a singer, songwriter, guitar player, and 0:06:58.436 --> 0:07:01.436 circumstances happened that you know, nepotis and roles or you know, 0:07:01.476 --> 0:07:04.196 whatever it is, and so I have been ever since 0:07:04.276 --> 0:07:07.316 the Love Project, which I did in fifteen years ago, 0:07:07.396 --> 0:07:10.836 sixteen years ago, been involved in that, and the streaming 0:07:10.876 --> 0:07:14.156 thing came up, and I just I have this view. 0:07:14.236 --> 0:07:17.196 I'm a bit like the kid in Mary Poppins that 0:07:17.196 --> 0:07:19.396 that wants to feed the birds and not go to 0:07:19.476 --> 0:07:21.556 the bank. I think music should be available to people. 0:07:21.596 --> 0:07:25.716 And the Beatles was held off streaming, maybe because of quality, 0:07:25.756 --> 0:07:27.556 but probably more so because they're thinking about, Okay, how 0:07:27.556 --> 0:07:29.676 do we sell box sets and how do we I'm 0:07:29.716 --> 0:07:31.916 getting there's kids that have no idea what this music 0:07:32.036 --> 0:07:34.316 is because they're not buying records, and we have to 0:07:34.316 --> 0:07:37.316 accept that. That's a you know, it's it's it's neither 0:07:37.356 --> 0:07:39.916 good or bad, it's just it is. You know, people go, 0:07:40.116 --> 0:07:43.756 people don't listen to albums anymore. Well, we can't judge hoppy, 0:07:43.836 --> 0:07:45.596 but you want to make things available to people. That's 0:07:45.596 --> 0:07:48.276 what I believe. So when the Beatles went on streaming, 0:07:48.316 --> 0:07:50.916 I just said, I use the power that there's like 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:53.116 a bullying power with the Beatles saying Okay, if you 0:07:53.156 --> 0:07:54.796 want to be on streaming, let's make sure the quality 0:07:54.836 --> 0:07:56.796 is as good as it can be. And I don't 0:07:56.836 --> 0:08:00.556 believe in that thing where people go, you can't you know, 0:08:00.916 --> 0:08:03.356 artists go, you can't enjoy music because it's not good, 0:08:03.396 --> 0:08:07.316 good quality. I listened to cassette cassettes that were cassettes 0:08:07.356 --> 0:08:09.476 with my my thing. I'd like to be cool as 0:08:09.476 --> 0:08:11.516 I had vinyl, but I was a generation at cassettes. 0:08:11.716 --> 0:08:14.276 I had a cassette, not even a workman, like a 0:08:14.356 --> 0:08:16.996 really bad player with those orange headphones that only did 0:08:17.076 --> 0:08:18.996 fast forward and didn't rewind, you know, and have to 0:08:19.036 --> 0:08:20.996 turn over the tape to get That's what I had, 0:08:21.156 --> 0:08:23.236 and it came with free speakers. Two little speakers came 0:08:23.276 --> 0:08:27.036 in the same box. But I listened to records on 0:08:27.076 --> 0:08:29.916 that which I fell in love with. They sounded like 0:08:30.196 --> 0:08:32.036 to me, it was like I didn't need anything else. 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:34.476 Our mind fills in the blanks. We can fill in 0:08:34.556 --> 0:08:37.236 the spaces that are there. But you might as well 0:08:37.356 --> 0:08:39.516 make things if they can be good, make things as 0:08:39.556 --> 0:08:41.716 good as they can be. That's what we do in studios. 0:08:41.996 --> 0:08:44.316 So with the Beatles, I went to Spotify, I went 0:08:44.356 --> 0:08:46.556 to Apple, I went to whoever would take me and said, 0:08:46.836 --> 0:08:48.316 how do we make the system better? How do we 0:08:48.676 --> 0:08:51.596 get rid of normalization which compresses music? How do we 0:08:52.076 --> 0:08:54.116 make sure the codecs are good, and so I've been working. 0:08:54.276 --> 0:08:57.036 I started working on that with them. Let's talk about 0:08:57.156 --> 0:09:00.476 what you found out about the way the standards were 0:09:00.516 --> 0:09:05.076 done that you wanted to override, because again it's interesting 0:09:05.076 --> 0:09:06.916 and nobody knows. It's only know it because you told 0:09:06.916 --> 0:09:09.596 me about it. There's this thing called normally nation where 0:09:09.596 --> 0:09:12.556 everything needs to be the same level. It's like life. 0:09:12.836 --> 0:09:14.836 If everything in life is the same level, you're not 0:09:14.836 --> 0:09:17.596 You're anither happy. You're neither happy or sad. I want 0:09:17.596 --> 0:09:19.356 to feel stuff I don't want to. You know, I 0:09:19.516 --> 0:09:23.116 maybe very English, you know if I sound English, I know, 0:09:23.516 --> 0:09:26.836 but I'm emotional. I care about stuff deeply, and I 0:09:26.876 --> 0:09:29.556 get I cry about things. It's the same with music. 0:09:29.596 --> 0:09:31.076 That's when music to be. We want it to be. 0:09:31.556 --> 0:09:33.716 We don't want it to be the same level. We 0:09:33.836 --> 0:09:36.476 want it to be surprising. And I went to go 0:09:36.476 --> 0:09:39.076 and see Spotify and Sweden and we talked about the 0:09:39.116 --> 0:09:42.356 process of imbibing music, how they take the music and 0:09:42.396 --> 0:09:44.436 how they put it out and making sure this doesn't happen. 0:09:45.116 --> 0:09:47.876 And they agreed. They and what's interesting what people there's 0:09:47.916 --> 0:09:50.916 the thing in the music industry where the artists and 0:09:50.956 --> 0:09:52.996 the Listener's not the question about how the asser dealt 0:09:53.036 --> 0:09:55.716 with But there's the thing about people perceive that these 0:09:55.756 --> 0:09:57.636 companies don't care, but they do care about it. They 0:09:57.636 --> 0:10:01.396 really do. You know, in my experience, they have teams 0:10:01.396 --> 0:10:03.076 and they just they want to know how to make 0:10:03.076 --> 0:10:05.796 it better, opposed to going we don't care about it. 0:10:06.356 --> 0:10:08.276 And that's what I found. So with Apple, they were 0:10:08.276 --> 0:10:11.316 developing new code. They came to see me when they 0:10:11.356 --> 0:10:14.356 did their master for I Tunes thing. And because because 0:10:14.396 --> 0:10:16.156 the way I grew up being my dad's ears because 0:10:16.196 --> 0:10:18.516 he went deaf, and you know, I was, I was 0:10:18.516 --> 0:10:20.356 in students listening for a long time, and I knew 0:10:20.356 --> 0:10:23.676 what one killer sounded like, maybe at two early in age. 0:10:23.716 --> 0:10:25.516 And I remember saying, I met a guy who was 0:10:25.556 --> 0:10:28.036 head of Corodo Apple and we did a listening test 0:10:28.076 --> 0:10:32.436 down at Bob clear Mountain's place in Santa Monica and 0:10:33.236 --> 0:10:36.276 they played me a remaster of something. I think it 0:10:36.356 --> 0:10:37.836 was a Dawn Life or something, and I just said, 0:10:37.836 --> 0:10:41.516 I'm hearing a weird compression at like four hundred hurts 0:10:41.876 --> 0:10:45.316 and I'm also hearing this leveling out a nine killer hurts. 0:10:45.756 --> 0:10:48.796 And they looked at me like I was some pretentious, 0:10:49.196 --> 0:10:51.956 which is fair enough. And I can only say what 0:10:52.036 --> 0:10:54.756 I'm hearing. And then this guy Bill Stuart William Stewart, 0:10:54.796 --> 0:10:56.796 who was the head of He said to me much later, 0:10:56.836 --> 0:10:58.236 he goes, the weird thing is we just thought you 0:10:58.276 --> 0:11:00.876 were mad. But I said, you know, to the team, 0:11:00.916 --> 0:11:03.196 we should and he goes, we found, we found it. 0:11:03.276 --> 0:11:05.836 We found what you were talking about. We found And 0:11:05.876 --> 0:11:09.716 I went, well, okay, I I don't know, Bill, but 0:11:09.716 --> 0:11:11.516 but I mean, I can only tell you what I hear. 0:11:11.836 --> 0:11:13.756 But the great thing about that is then they engaged. 0:11:13.796 --> 0:11:15.436 And then they said, okay, how do we make things better? 0:11:15.476 --> 0:11:17.716 How can we and I get seen. I mean, two 0:11:17.796 --> 0:11:20.556 years ago someone came to see me from a company. 0:11:20.596 --> 0:11:23.396 I said, it's completely transparent and slee enough for them. 0:11:23.716 --> 0:11:26.156 He had an ab situation and I won't tell you 0:11:26.196 --> 0:11:28.476 what stream of service it was. And I said, no, 0:11:28.596 --> 0:11:31.276 that's I'm hearing. I'm hearing some number seven killer hurts. 0:11:31.316 --> 0:11:35.836 That's not And he said, but people can't tell a difference, 0:11:35.836 --> 0:11:37.796 and I said, no, if I walked into a room 0:11:37.836 --> 0:11:39.436 and you played to me, I wouldn't tell a difference. 0:11:39.676 --> 0:11:42.236 That's the thing. That's a difference. But if you're get 0:11:42.236 --> 0:11:44.556 it right, but if you know, but now you I've 0:11:44.556 --> 0:11:46.396 got a button. I mean I can hear what's going on, 0:11:46.436 --> 0:11:48.716 of course, but that's not the let's get it right. 0:11:48.716 --> 0:11:51.556 And so I find that within that world the people 0:11:51.756 --> 0:11:54.756 want to engage and it's just making sure that getting 0:11:54.836 --> 0:11:57.916 rid of all of the bs around it. And there's 0:11:57.956 --> 0:12:00.796 the thing that I, you know, I get attacked for occasionally. 0:12:00.836 --> 0:12:03.236 I have a pretty good run of stuff. But you know, 0:12:03.356 --> 0:12:06.836 like about compressional limiting, people have been compressing limiting records 0:12:07.636 --> 0:12:10.596 since records were recorded. The nature of recording there, that's 0:12:10.596 --> 0:12:14.556 what happened. I mean, my dad flew over to Capitol 0:12:14.596 --> 0:12:16.596 in LA because the Americans were so much louder than 0:12:16.636 --> 0:12:20.116 the English and they still are socially, No, they loud. 0:12:20.156 --> 0:12:21.716 There's so much loud than the English. And he went 0:12:21.756 --> 0:12:24.196 to the Comely, Come fly Me sessions with Frank Snatcher. 0:12:24.276 --> 0:12:26.196 There's my dad. No one ever knew he was there. 0:12:26.636 --> 0:12:29.396 He was young and wet pioneers to see how they 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:31.676 were doing, see how the Americans could be loud, because 0:12:31.676 --> 0:12:34.276 in those days everything was listening to on a on 0:12:34.316 --> 0:12:37.076 a turntable, and the American records would come on the 0:12:37.156 --> 0:12:38.636 radio and they'd be loud than the English ones, and 0:12:38.676 --> 0:12:41.916 they wouldn't know that. E M. I want to know why. Yeah, 0:12:41.956 --> 0:12:45.596 I'm accused of there's this whole loudness warm of debate. Course. 0:12:45.756 --> 0:12:49.356 And I always wanted my things to sound loud because 0:12:49.396 --> 0:12:51.516 I want them to be like the Beatles. Like the 0:12:51.556 --> 0:12:53.916 Beatles were always louder than everybody else. But you always 0:12:53.916 --> 0:12:56.956 made records just sounded beautiful. I mean, and always that 0:12:57.036 --> 0:13:00.436 was my That's my goal, and they always will do it. 0:13:00.556 --> 0:13:02.476 Like you know, people want to listen to records because 0:13:02.516 --> 0:13:07.236 they doesn't matter what it is, they just and it's funny. 0:13:07.276 --> 0:13:09.836 I went to get these. A guy for this team 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:11.836 of high fi experts came to see me. This is 0:13:11.916 --> 0:13:14.436 down at Abbeurador while back, and they serted they had 0:13:14.476 --> 0:13:16.396 this conversation with me and I said, you know, records 0:13:16.396 --> 0:13:20.996 have been compressed for a long time. And I said, 0:13:20.996 --> 0:13:22.476 I try, and I try and not make you know, 0:13:22.476 --> 0:13:24.156 I try and have dynamics. And we talked about the 0:13:24.316 --> 0:13:26.716 field and stuff like that in a record. I said, 0:13:26.756 --> 0:13:30.116 but really it's really only from like nineteen seventy two 0:13:30.156 --> 0:13:32.036 to Night's and eighty that there was this sort of 0:13:32.876 --> 0:13:35.476 less compression. I like, you know, and I said, so, so, 0:13:35.556 --> 0:13:37.516 if you're trying to sell me your high fis, what 0:13:37.516 --> 0:13:39.556 would you play when they went so Sultan's or Swinging 0:13:39.596 --> 0:13:41.076 by Dire Straits. So I was like, Okay, I think 0:13:41.116 --> 0:13:43.596 it's nineteen seventy seven they went Ducks at the Moon 0:13:43.636 --> 0:13:46.676 by Pink Floating, Okay, seventy four seventy three. I went, so, 0:13:47.076 --> 0:13:50.796 your theory is that the only music worth listening to 0:13:50.876 --> 0:13:53.756 us from this like sixty or seventy eight period of time, 0:13:53.796 --> 0:13:57.316 and give us how crazy that is. Yeah, we have 0:13:57.356 --> 0:13:58.996 to take a quick break and then we'll be back 0:13:59.036 --> 0:14:05.836 with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin. We're back 0:14:05.876 --> 0:14:08.596 with more from Rick Rubin and Giles Martin, who's talking 0:14:08.636 --> 0:14:12.036 about how the streaming services built in technology affects the 0:14:12.116 --> 0:14:16.156 sound of the Beatles catalog. Tell me about the normalization 0:14:16.276 --> 0:14:19.116 process that they were doing. Was it a compression or 0:14:19.156 --> 0:14:22.676 was it matching levels? It was matching levels, but it 0:14:22.716 --> 0:14:25.276 has to be done. The problem is with all of 0:14:25.276 --> 0:14:27.356 this is that I don't think it was done on 0:14:27.396 --> 0:14:30.556 the input stage, so it feels the input it was. 0:14:30.556 --> 0:14:34.956 Actually when you make something loud quieter, there's a way 0:14:34.956 --> 0:14:37.116 to do it where you're retaining all of the information, 0:14:37.156 --> 0:14:39.196 and there's a way to do it where you're actually 0:14:39.756 --> 0:14:45.916 removing information, yes, removing resolution to get it quieter exactly. 0:14:45.956 --> 0:14:48.076 So that's what was going on. So there was a 0:14:48.076 --> 0:14:52.996 digital compression happening in order to make the track the 0:14:53.076 --> 0:14:58.916 right level. Yeah, And there's that becomes a sound to it, yes, 0:14:59.276 --> 0:15:02.116 And there becomes a sound that's then accepted. Yes. And 0:15:02.396 --> 0:15:05.556 it's a very difficult thing to to negate. And it's 0:15:05.636 --> 0:15:08.796 it's really here's here's the thing. And I can sit 0:15:08.916 --> 0:15:11.596 in now as like as now just turned fifty three 0:15:11.676 --> 0:15:16.076 year old man and go that's the reason why records 0:15:16.116 --> 0:15:18.796 don't last as long. But the same point is that 0:15:19.716 --> 0:15:23.156 you know, when Revolve was made, they didn't plan on 0:15:23.196 --> 0:15:25.756 it lasting very long. No, that's the thing you just 0:15:25.796 --> 0:15:28.036 go us. So there's a there's a there's a there's 0:15:28.076 --> 0:15:30.916 a tangible sort of inner turmoil that goes on in 0:15:30.956 --> 0:15:34.556 this in us, in us on our mountaintops judging this thing. 0:15:34.916 --> 0:15:36.276 But the only thing I would say, and the only 0:15:36.316 --> 0:15:39.876 thing that that I think is is really important, is 0:15:39.916 --> 0:15:44.436 that as time goes on, technology is a wonderful thing. 0:15:44.596 --> 0:15:46.836 That's the thing people think it is, and technology is 0:15:46.836 --> 0:15:50.116 is you can be in a situation. You know, even 0:15:50.196 --> 0:15:53.956 with spatial audio, even with that, you can bring someone 0:15:54.116 --> 0:15:58.756 closer to the artist. You can you can have that directness. 0:15:58.796 --> 0:16:00.436 You know, you and I are talking now, we're talking 0:16:00.516 --> 0:16:02.436 good microphones and have this conversation. But it's not the 0:16:02.436 --> 0:16:05.156 same as someone being in a room with us. And 0:16:05.236 --> 0:16:09.036 so we or much better people than us that make 0:16:09.196 --> 0:16:11.796 records now, you know, will be in a situation where 0:16:11.836 --> 0:16:15.516 they can they can create something and as it should 0:16:15.516 --> 0:16:18.676 be as close as to what they want someone to hear. 0:16:18.916 --> 0:16:21.396 You know, with technology, with everything going on, what's happened 0:16:21.436 --> 0:16:24.196 is it? With is sometimes we move further away from 0:16:24.236 --> 0:16:26.516 that because of the way it's being delivered and the 0:16:26.556 --> 0:16:30.396 way it's being done, and because of presumptions by technology 0:16:30.396 --> 0:16:32.756 companies that that's the right thing to do. Yes, And 0:16:32.836 --> 0:16:35.356 so you know, I get I get given keys to 0:16:35.436 --> 0:16:38.116 things like I'm now ahead of audience staff for UMG. 0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:39.916 So one of my roles is to look at this 0:16:39.956 --> 0:16:42.916 stuff and go, okay, there's a universal music group for anyone, 0:16:43.196 --> 0:16:45.676 but to go, okay, how do we how do we 0:16:45.956 --> 0:16:48.996 create this transparency? You know, there's no agenda here, there's 0:16:48.996 --> 0:16:50.676 no like and I'm not trying to sell more records. 0:16:50.756 --> 0:16:52.636 I'm not My role is purely how do we create 0:16:52.636 --> 0:16:56.556 this transfers of preservation. It's a preservation. It's also preservation 0:16:56.636 --> 0:16:58.156 looking forward as well. It's not just a question of 0:16:58.956 --> 0:17:01.756 me doing what I do with old records. It's like, 0:17:01.796 --> 0:17:04.756 I'm more interesting what you know people are doing with 0:17:04.796 --> 0:17:06.876 their records and go okay, you need to make sure, 0:17:06.916 --> 0:17:09.876 like you know, music, music used to flow out of us, yes, 0:17:09.956 --> 0:17:12.916 all flout of artists and and be in a stream, 0:17:12.956 --> 0:17:16.876 and now it's in a waterfallest like there's cascading collapsing waterfalls. 0:17:16.956 --> 0:17:19.756 Everyone's being hit by things all the time. You can't 0:17:19.796 --> 0:17:22.076 change that. But what you can do is reassure that 0:17:22.076 --> 0:17:25.596 people that spend hours, days and week working on something 0:17:25.636 --> 0:17:27.996 that it can be It can go to someone who 0:17:27.996 --> 0:17:29.876 loves your music in the best possible way. It's like 0:17:30.556 --> 0:17:33.436 who wants who wants a cold pizza in a box? Absolutely, 0:17:33.476 --> 0:17:38.196 And one of the things about the well meaning technical 0:17:38.236 --> 0:17:42.276 advances what they can do is you can listen to 0:17:42.316 --> 0:17:44.876 a piece of music and then they press a button 0:17:44.876 --> 0:17:46.636 that would be like the equivalent of let's say a 0:17:46.676 --> 0:17:50.516 loudness button. Everybody knows what the loudness button does, so 0:17:50.636 --> 0:17:52.516 you press the loudness button and it seems like you 0:17:52.596 --> 0:17:55.436 might like that better, but you might like that better 0:17:55.516 --> 0:17:58.516 on some pieces of music and not others. And if 0:17:58.596 --> 0:18:02.356 that loudness button was universally put on everything, where you 0:18:02.396 --> 0:18:04.556 no longer have the button or the choice to turn 0:18:04.596 --> 0:18:07.836 it off. It's one of the things actually with Sonos 0:18:07.916 --> 0:18:11.036 that I recommended early on with Sonos. Sonos has it 0:18:11.076 --> 0:18:14.156 built in loudness button and it comes on, and I 0:18:14.196 --> 0:18:17.396 suggested it should come off, and you can turn it 0:18:17.396 --> 0:18:20.876 on if you want it on. But the first thing 0:18:20.956 --> 0:18:23.796 I do when I connect a new Sonos speaker is 0:18:23.796 --> 0:18:26.036 turned off the loudness but absolutely because it sounds more 0:18:26.076 --> 0:18:27.876 like what the record sounds like. Yeah, and that's the 0:18:28.116 --> 0:18:30.396 that's the thing. It's like, you know, that's designed so 0:18:30.916 --> 0:18:34.396 a loudness button in that case is designed so it 0:18:34.436 --> 0:18:37.116 adds more base at lower levels, not high levels. It's 0:18:37.116 --> 0:18:39.156 the same thing as I remember when having a car 0:18:39.396 --> 0:18:43.036 which had a variable volume limit for when how fast 0:18:43.076 --> 0:18:45.156 I was going. Remember the worst it makes me crazy 0:18:45.316 --> 0:18:47.756 most cars happen. Yeah, it's like what is especially if 0:18:47.756 --> 0:18:50.036 you're listening to mixes while you're driving and it makes 0:18:50.036 --> 0:18:52.116 you crazy. It's just and actually I was listening to 0:18:52.116 --> 0:18:55.676 a Shawny a Shanty mix the other days artists and 0:18:55.716 --> 0:18:57.356 it was like and I was listening to on a 0:18:57.396 --> 0:19:00.756 system and with it with the mix engineer, and it's 0:19:00.836 --> 0:19:03.516 like loads of ediwate kicked drum loads the thing. And 0:19:03.516 --> 0:19:06.196 we were checking out and I said, did you mean 0:19:06.236 --> 0:19:09.756 to make the vocal louder here? It's very rave, and 0:19:09.836 --> 0:19:11.556 he goes, no, it stays to stay the same. And 0:19:11.636 --> 0:19:14.956