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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the defense for the alleged

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Speaker 1: assassin Luigi Mangioni, actually gets up in court and talks

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Speaker 1: about how mangione is the victim, actually claiming with a

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Speaker 1: straight face that his quote beautiful, promising life has been

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Speaker 1: derailed by those pesky murderer charges. Wow. I wonder how

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Speaker 1: the murder victim's family is feeling about right now. He's

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Speaker 1: leaving behind a wife and two sons, and Luigi Mangioni's

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Speaker 1: defense team claims he's the victim. And I haven't even

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Speaker 1: got started on what they are trying to have thrown

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Speaker 1: out of evidence so a jury will never hear the truth.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: No one what a the address of your emergency?

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Speaker 1: That's not really an emergency.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 2: I have a customer here that some other customers were.

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Speaker 4: Suspicious of that he looks like the CEO shooter New York.

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Speaker 1: Okay, straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: at large dailymail dot com. Did they actually say in

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Speaker 1: court that their client, luigim Agiani is the victim because

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Speaker 1: his quote beautiful promising life has been derailed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him

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Speaker 5: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that

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Speaker 5: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.

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Speaker 5: This was something that he went through. He went through

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Speaker 5: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is

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Speaker 5: that the real enemy here is the medical system, and

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Speaker 5: that is one thing that you can definitely expect his

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Speaker 5: legal team.

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Speaker 1: I'll argue, Kila, can I believe you are my lion

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Speaker 1: eyes control room? Please show me him a running along

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Speaker 1: the beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting

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Speaker 1: up girls and tickling them. It's a video. They're all

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Speaker 1: giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of him lounging

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Speaker 1: by the beach. I'd love to see those photos of

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Speaker 1: him hiking and what looks to be a jungle rainfall. Oh,

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Speaker 1: he is feeling no pain there, Keili Brantley, I hope

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Speaker 1: you don't fall for that look like and seeker. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimanngioni is apparently the

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Speaker 1: victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining US

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Speaker 1: clinical forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules of

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Speaker 1: Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need to

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Speaker 1: write one, doctor Judy Hoe, about try to tell the

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Speaker 1: truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay for

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Speaker 1: it and we can send it to Luigi Mangioni. He

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Speaker 1: is not the victim here. But you know you can't

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Speaker 1: count out the defense attorney Agnafello. He got Sean Combs

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Speaker 1: off on the major accusations in that indictment. So no

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Speaker 1: matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds, he essentially

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Speaker 1: won that case. Yes, his defense team that claims Luigi

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Speaker 1: Mangioni is the victim. I want to read it, doctor

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Speaker 1: Judy Hope, beautiful promising life derailed by those irritating murder charges.

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Speaker 3: Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative.

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Speaker 6: And as you said, even though he's not the victim.

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Speaker 3: I think this is why there has been a fan

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Speaker 3: base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe

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Speaker 3: he is a victim, that he's some type of anti hero,

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Speaker 3: that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this as individuals

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Speaker 3: who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people in.

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Speaker 3: And it's weird because a lot of these people who

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Speaker 3: develop this sort of fanhood around Luigi. They're kind of thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: maybe I can be a special person in his life,

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Speaker 3: maybe he'll pay attention to me.

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Speaker 6: Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.

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Speaker 6: This person might learn to trust me. It's really interesting,

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Speaker 6: but some of it actually has to do with a

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Speaker 6: self centeredness of people who might actually talk to him,

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Speaker 6: that they're hoping to get something special out of it

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Speaker 6: for themselves.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Doreti Gudio. I know you're the clinical and

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Speaker 1: forensic neuropsychologist, but I don't even know what you just said.

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Speaker 1: How can the defense stand up and say this is

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Speaker 1: not about the murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian

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Speaker 1: Thompson walking along and he's gunned down in cold blood,

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Speaker 1: leaving behind two sons and a wife. That's the victim,

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Speaker 1: according to prosecutors, is Luigi Mangioni holding a three D

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Speaker 1: weapon that he made that it took dozens and dozens

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Speaker 1: of hours to make, so he can gun down a

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Speaker 1: guy walking to work in the back. You stated, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what that was, doctor Judijo. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: you're wrong. I'm just saying I'm just a trial lawyer

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Speaker 1: didn't understand it. But I think I know some of

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Speaker 1: the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim.

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Speaker 1: And here they are filing in to court. Okay, oh

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Speaker 1: what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line. Now,

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Speaker 1: wait till you see the cat walk parade of sad

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Speaker 1: sack women filing in to They won't even show their

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Speaker 1: face to get a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni. Yes, keep

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Speaker 1: it going, Keep it going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring

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Speaker 1: to get in to just bask in the glow of

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Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni. Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on.

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Speaker 1: They had to turn women away, and it's not just women. Listen.

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Speaker 7: So this is who police believe was responsible for the

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Speaker 7: United Healthcare ceo PP. His name's Glubigi. All I can

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Speaker 7: say is mia, does he need a Mario? I believe

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Speaker 7: it was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama,

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Speaker 7: I'm in love with a criminal, and this type of

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Speaker 7: love isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney Spears, and

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Speaker 7: I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe

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Speaker 7: if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better

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Speaker 7: look like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did

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Speaker 7: he train at the Marvel Studios with all the other

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Speaker 7: crisis Okay, because Luigi, that's a spicy meat the ball.

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Speaker 7: I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim

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Speaker 7: to be a Christian nation, that we need to act

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Speaker 7: like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness.

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Speaker 7: And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I have

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Speaker 7: decided I'm gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him, right,

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Speaker 7: but not forget, because I mean, my god, how could

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Speaker 7: you forget an angel like this? I'm not gonna For

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Speaker 7: a while thought, oh my god, we're never gonna find him,

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Speaker 7: you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere on the

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Speaker 7: way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the

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Speaker 7: masks and no masks, this man he found a way

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Speaker 7: into our hearts. He did.

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Speaker 1: I hardly even know where to start with that. That

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Speaker 1: is from mister William's spreck on TikTok. I'm in love

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Speaker 1: with a criminal and I forgive him After a few

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Speaker 1: seconds of consideration, Doctor gud Hoe It I can't say

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Speaker 1: it gets worse. But there's more. Listen, you can't take

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Speaker 1: my man, his blood on his head. When you're the

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Speaker 1: one with the good who's tacking lash for fun, you

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Speaker 1: can't take my man. And that's from Scarlett park TikTok.

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Speaker 1: So it's gone beyond calling him a spicy meatball. These

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Speaker 1: people actually consider Luigimi and Gioni their man, and they

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Speaker 1: are angry with the fans for prosecuting. What have I

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Speaker 1: gone down the rabbit hole? Am I in some crazy

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Speaker 1: bizarre alice in Wonderland? What is happening, doctor Judy Hoe.

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Speaker 3: I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen.

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Speaker 3: People start to idolize these potential uh. I mean, clearly

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Speaker 3: this is a defendant, right, But they're thinking, in their minds,

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Speaker 3: this person is innocent. Maybe I'm gonna be their special person,

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Speaker 3: and they're lusting after them the way that they would

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Speaker 3: lust after a celebrity, especially when they see photos and

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Speaker 3: videos that they can start cutting into their own social media.

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Speaker 3: They're developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and

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Speaker 3: essentially completely erasing all of the facts that have been

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Speaker 3: evident in this case. And clearly the defendant's attorneys are

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Speaker 3: trying to paint that picture as well, leaning into it

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Speaker 3: as hard as possible, because they're hoping to influence the

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Speaker 3: public opinion even before a jury is selected, so that

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Speaker 3: they can hopefully get him the outcome that he wants,

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Speaker 3: which is apparently to escape a.

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Speaker 6: Death sentence, escape prison.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not sure exactly what they think is possible,

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Speaker 3: but that's what's so scary about all the positivity that

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Speaker 3: has developed around his persona in terms of all of

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Speaker 3: these illustrations, the website they set up about and it's

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Speaker 3: really concerning.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Cheryl mccollumy is joining me. Cold Case

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Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute, founder, author of a brand new book,

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Speaker 1: Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the Cold Case

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Speaker 1: of the Flint River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the night that you and I were

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Speaker 1: out until two o'clock in the morning staking out a

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Speaker 1: location where we thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.

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Speaker 1: How has this gotten so bass ackwards, Cheryl Nancy?

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Speaker 2: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint

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Speaker 2: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life

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Speaker 2: was not just promising, it was in full swing. He

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Speaker 2: had a wife and children, and a career at the

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Speaker 2: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had

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Speaker 2: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that, but

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Speaker 2: he took everything on those children. And I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell you something, when you look at the people that

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Speaker 2: are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six

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Speaker 2: thousand letters that he's got, that one hundred and fifteen

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Speaker 2: a day, that there's some good intel in there too,

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Speaker 2: because he is writing people back, so he's communicating, and

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Speaker 2: I hope they're listing every.

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Speaker 1: Piece of it. Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down.

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Speaker 1: I haven't even gotten into the legal implications of what

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Speaker 1: is happening in court. I'm just so concerned that one

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Speaker 1: of these nutjobs is going to end up on the

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Speaker 1: ultimate jury and acquit Luigi Mangioni under the misconception that

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Speaker 1: he is somehow the victim. Again in court, his lawyers

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Speaker 1: and I'm quoting, claim that his beautiful, promising life has

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Speaker 1: been derailed murder charges. It's all about me, me, me, me,

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Speaker 1: me me. This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew

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Speaker 1: up with silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has

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Speaker 1: been living in a Hawaii high rise on the beach

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Speaker 1: doing nothing, and yet he's the victim. Can you imagine,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, how hard Thompson had to work to get

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Speaker 1: to become the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed

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Speaker 1: to him on a silver platter on top of a

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Speaker 1: Christmas tree like it was MANGIONI. He had to work

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Speaker 1: and sacrifice long, long hours to get to where he

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Speaker 1: got to to be gunned down like a dog on

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Speaker 1: the sidewalk, Cheryl.

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Speaker 2: Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I

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Speaker 2: agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not

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Speaker 2: only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.

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Speaker 2: You know what it is. You know how long David

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Speaker 2: has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,

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Speaker 2: it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at

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Speaker 2: the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 2: Mangione was giving nothing to a family, he was giving

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Speaker 2: nothing to society. He was contributing z rows and again,

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Speaker 2: what he took cannot even be measured.

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Speaker 1: If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,

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Speaker 1: that's you, calib Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow

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Speaker 1: off because I have videos of him tickling these girls

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Speaker 1: and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't

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Speaker 1: show it because it has the girl's faces in it.

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Speaker 1: But he was feeling no pain. But it's all about me, Me, me, me, me,

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Speaker 1: why me? And he's certainly not the first. Let me

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Speaker 1: refresh your recollection, as we say in court with bride

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Speaker 1: killer Jamie Lee Koumarowski. Listen to her, right, just don't know.

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Speaker 3: Why that's hard to happen to me, because bad things

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Speaker 3: happen to good people, Haney, That's why.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just.

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Speaker 6: Something that happened to you.

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Speaker 3: And we are going to deal with the best week past.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Dave mac joining me, Crimes Stories investigative reporter. You

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Speaker 1: know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.

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Speaker 1: She's guilty. She got totally stinking drunk and plowed into

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Speaker 1: a beautiful bride leaving her wedding reception with the groom

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Speaker 1: and killed her. And there she is behind bars, going

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Speaker 1: why is this happening to me?

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Speaker 8: One look and listen to her father, Nancy, what does

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Speaker 8: he say, Well, bad things happen to good people.

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Speaker 1: No they don't.

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Speaker 8: You just killed somebody because of your own actions. See,

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Speaker 8: we've got a whole group of people now that never

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Speaker 8: want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them.

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Speaker 8: How can you possibly think man Joni is sitting here

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Speaker 8: saying his life is derailed. Well, he destroyed another life

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Speaker 8: and another family. Kamarowski sitting in jail, Why is this

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Speaker 8: happening to me?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 3: Why not?

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Speaker 8: What did you expect? What happened? Sick of this? Nancy

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Speaker 8: is getting really tiresome.

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Speaker 1: And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,

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Speaker 1: just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komarowski.

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Speaker 1: And here's I guess this would have to be the

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Speaker 1: Miss Universe of Yme Jody Arius check her out. She

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Speaker 1: is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching

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Speaker 1: trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her

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Speaker 1: fiance Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least twenty nine times.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan and I have argued about that. I

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Speaker 1: say it was more than that. Check it out, Jody Areas,

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Speaker 1: you should have at least done your makeup before you

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Speaker 1: speak to police about murdering your fiance when he broke

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Speaker 1: up and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours just Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, do you

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Speaker 1: recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because

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Speaker 1: is they're about to question her about what could have

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Speaker 1: happened to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,

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Speaker 1: does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: on her lip gloss. Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: what happened to Travis?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,

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Speaker 4: taking a shower, taking dirtie pictures, if you will, And

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Speaker 4: while his back is turned, she takes a knife and

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Speaker 4: plunges it into his back over and over and over again.

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Speaker 4: When he turns around to defend himself to try to

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Speaker 4: parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the

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Speaker 4: chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he

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Speaker 4: spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink, he

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Speaker 4: crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway.

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Speaker 4: She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to

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Speaker 4: ear and the kupdi gras she shoots him after he

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Speaker 4: is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking

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Speaker 4: at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and it's.

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Speaker 1: All about me, me, me, Scott Morgan, you've seen it all.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to say, say you something you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me, and criminal defendants

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Speaker 1: focusing only on themselves and not their victims. There is

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Speaker 1: the drunk, stinking drunk a d a assistant district's attorney

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Speaker 1: Devin Flanning. And listen to her as what the protocol is?

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Speaker 9: Protocol?

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Speaker 1: And you by aske youters turn off the body?

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Speaker 8: Can you have to turn it off?

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Speaker 6: And that's your protocol, lawyer.

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Speaker 5: So she knows well.

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Speaker 4: Lawyers, so that's not true.

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Speaker 1: So we gotta go no it is. That's that's a law.

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Speaker 1: I'm an ag, I'm an aging.

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Speaker 8: Good for you.

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Speaker 1: Let's go on. Those two were kicked out of I

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Speaker 1: think it was a bar for being drunk and belligerent.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got oh gosh, she's been called a screaming

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Speaker 1: bands she and do you hear going I'm an a da,

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Speaker 1: I'm an Ada. Every cent it starts with I. I

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Speaker 1: I listen to this woman, Joe Scott.

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Speaker 2: He ain't needs not judge me.

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Speaker 1: He he wants to call a salt.

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Speaker 5: We're gonna go through that row.

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Speaker 1: No, he wants to go through assault. No, we're not

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Speaker 1: doing that. Then no, he he claims I assaulted him. No,

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Speaker 1: we're not doing that. We're not doing that. And then,

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Speaker 1: of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni. And he's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful life. Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Hubers

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Speaker 1: that gave her ex boyfriend the quote nos jop he

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Speaker 1: always want with a handgun. Listen, Starry Vain.

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Speaker 6: One of our last conversations we had that was good

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Speaker 6: was sitting once my best friend of the dentist to

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Speaker 6: do with the marrs and want to get a noob,

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Speaker 6: just that.

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Speaker 10: Kind of person.

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Speaker 11: And I'm right here.

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Speaker 1: I gave him his nose job.

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Speaker 11: He wanted.

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Speaker 3: I want to marry me if they know that I

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Speaker 3: kill my boyfriend and helped.

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Speaker 11: Not funny, but I'm not you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Joe Scott Morgan Professor Forensics and death investigator. Your

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Speaker 1: forte is dead bodies and causes of death and modes

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Speaker 1: of death. Let me go to special guests joining us now,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that? I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you saw this for yourself, but me and

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Speaker 1: Gioni's defensive team is actually arguing his life was derailed

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Speaker 1: by the murder charges.

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Speaker 12: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.

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Speaker 12: Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused

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Speaker 12: of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But

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Speaker 12: the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all

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Speaker 12: they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.

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Speaker 1: I've seen photos of Luegia Minchioni practicing yoga, tickling multiple

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Speaker 1: girls in a hallway all at once. Every shot I

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Speaker 1: see of him, he's out in nature. He's not at work.

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Speaker 1: We keep hearing he quit his job. He was laid off. Gee,

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Speaker 1: I wonder why maybe the job interfered with the tickling

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace throughout this week, Luigia Mangioni

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Speaker 1: and his defensive team have been fighting it out in

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Speaker 1: court to get a lot of evidence suppressed. Forget about

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Speaker 1: all the sad sack women lined up to get in.

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Speaker 1: Forget about the martyrdom of Luigi Mangioni. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the facts and the law.

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Speaker 13: Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have

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Speaker 13: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.

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Speaker 13: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and

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Speaker 13: they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,

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Speaker 13: I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can

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Speaker 13: be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one

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Speaker 13: of them is no better. The nine one one operator,

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Speaker 13: Emily States, testifies about the call and is heard to

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Speaker 13: ask for a description, with the manager replying, the only

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Speaker 13: thing you can see is the eyebrows.

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Speaker 1: Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and

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Speaker 1: federal court. She is with Ray Quinny and nebecker Sky.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. If the defense is

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Speaker 1: arguing that Luigimngioni was illegally arrested, the nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call occurred before the arrest, So what could be

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Speaker 1: the possible grounds for suppressing that call by the McDonald's manager.

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Speaker 14: I think they're going to have a really hard time

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Speaker 14: keeping the nine to one one call out. I can

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Speaker 14: understand it from a defense perspective. You have to try,

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Speaker 14: but when it comes to nine to one one calls,

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Speaker 14: as long as you can lay the foundation for it,

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Speaker 14: it's probably coming in.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing I know Sky lazarro

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Speaker 1: that they hate about this nine to one one call.

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Speaker 1: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slaghings

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Speaker 1: for Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described Brian

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Speaker 1: Coberger's freaky, bushy eyebrows. Listen, just remember seeing.

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Speaker 9: This figure that was like not fat obviously, but more

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Speaker 9: of like the skinnyer tongue build.

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Speaker 5: And some mask on.

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Speaker 9: I don't know what the exactly was, but when I

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Speaker 9: thought about it, it was just like covering here and here.

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Speaker 9: I don't know if he's covering his mouth his nose

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Speaker 9: or below his mouth and nose. I just remember knowing

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Speaker 9: that he was white, but I didn't know how he

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Speaker 9: was white.

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Speaker 7: I just knew he was and this knowing.

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Speaker 9: There's like I knew he had looked at me because

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Speaker 9: of a Bushye, that's all I remember.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,

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Speaker 1: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the

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Speaker 1: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in

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Speaker 1: cold blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.

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Speaker 1: He was a chef, by the way, identified by a

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Speaker 1: particular limp that he had. I've had a bank robber

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Speaker 1: identified because he walked sleugh footed, in other words, like

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Speaker 1: a duck. They are all sorts of ways to identify someone.

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Speaker 1: It can be by voice, it could be any number

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Speaker 1: of things. In this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows,

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Speaker 1: and there's no doubt that's Luigi Mangioni. They hate it.

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Speaker 10: They hate that identification, Tom, Yeah, they do, because you know,

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Speaker 10: it shows how important Nancy and we did this when

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Speaker 10: we first started talking about this case, how important the

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Speaker 10: videos and all the photos were to get out to

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Speaker 10: the public, even if his face was covered, even if

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Speaker 10: he was in a cab or.

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Speaker 11: Whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped off the page

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Speaker 11: to everyone who looked at it. That was the number

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Speaker 11: one thing that everyone looked at as a looking point

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Speaker 11: and identification point when it came to him, and it

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Speaker 11: just showed that the quicker they got those photos out,

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Speaker 11: the better it was.

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Speaker 1: In the end of this, you know, I'm very curious

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Speaker 1: about this, the fact that he is identified at McDonald's

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Speaker 1: by his eye browse, among other things. Let's see the

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Speaker 1: pictures of the McDonald's. There you go, there he is

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Speaker 1: at McDonald's. But skyl Azaara, don't you think that the

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Speaker 1: defense should be more concerned about the fact that he

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Speaker 1: can be identified at the time of the killing. He

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Speaker 1: showed his face repeatedly. I agree with you.

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Speaker 14: He probably should have been a little bit more careful

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Speaker 14: at that time and that should be the stuff they're

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Speaker 14: seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as

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Speaker 14: it goes to the nine to one one call. The

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Speaker 14: defenses probably only argument is that these are witnesses who

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Speaker 14: identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,

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Speaker 14: so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.

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Speaker 14: They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.

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Speaker 14: The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it

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Speaker 14: turns out to be him.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing

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Speaker 1: that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind

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Speaker 1: of under arrest because so many police started showing up

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Speaker 1: and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if this

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Speaker 1: is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed, and

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.

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Speaker 1: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there

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Speaker 1: with him, so they were right. Now, what the defense

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Speaker 1: is arguing is that having multipolice multiple police officers show

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Speaker 1: up is tantamount equal to arresting him. Why do we

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Speaker 1: care because police engaged in a conversation with him to

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Speaker 1: identify him, and he spilled a lot of information in

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Speaker 1: that conversation. The state says it was before his arrest.

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Speaker 1: Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you

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Speaker 1: are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they

431
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: want the judge to believe that because several police officers

432
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 1: showed up at McDonald's, that me and Gioni was effectively

433
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: under arrest in any statement he made pre miranda should

434
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: be suppressed. That's not going to happen when I walk

435
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: into Let's just pretend Chipotle and all the Atlanta PD

436
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: are in there getting a salad. I don't feel like

437
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: I'm under arrest. Think about it. Listen.

438
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 13: Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's. Manjoni

439
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 13: sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven minutes later,

440
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 13: the nine one one call is made. Nine twenty eight

441
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 13: two police officers show up and begin talking to Mangoni.

442
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 13: The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police until nine

443
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 13: forty two, when at least eight officers are visible on

444
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 13: the recording. The defense claims packing the place with police

445
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 13: amounts to unlawful attention prior to Mangoni's arrest. Agnifilo argues

446
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 13: police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount to illegally

447
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 13: detaining the alleged killer. Agniffilo also takes exception with the

448
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 13: way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest, claiming it

449
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 13: was warrantlessly searched on the scene.

450
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: In other words, they looked in his back Cheryl McCollum

451
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: joining me. She is not only a crime scene investigator

452
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: and founder of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she

453
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: is also the star of a hit podcast which I

454
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: actually put on a loop sometimes. Cheryl McCollum, Zone seven,

455
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, has it ever dawned on you when you

456
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: go into McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're

457
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: arresting somebody, that you're a mere presence equals an arrest,

458
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: Because that's what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,

459
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: is get out from under what Manngioni said to police

460
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: pre miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.

461
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: I think the body cam is going to be so

462
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.

463
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: It's going to, you know, show the world that he

464
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 2: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a

465
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 2: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is

466
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: doing is there basically, look, you use newer to make

467
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and

468
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that

469
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest, and

470
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: now we can't use anything, and it's just be a.

471
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom.

472
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.

473
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 15: He's a young man and he is being treated like

474
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 15: a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,

475
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 15: and they are literally treating him like he is like

476
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 15: some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.

477
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 15: He was on display for everyone to see in the

478
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 15: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.

479
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 15: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to

480
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 15: have these big assault rifles that frankly, I had no

481
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 15: idea it was in their arsenal. And to have all

482
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 15: of these these the press there, the media there, it

483
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 15: was like perfectly core aoreograph. And what was the New

484
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 15: York City mayor doing at this press conference?

485
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: He is a walking talking contradiction.

486
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 2: He supposedly is against this wealthy CEO is yet he

487
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: comes for money.

488
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: This is the guy living in a high rise in

489
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning. Did you

490
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: wake up to a beach this morning? Dec I Sert

491
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: did not. The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and

492
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: nail to keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and

493
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCombs pointing out, that bodycam is going to

494
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: be so significant because It doesn't matter what the state says.

495
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what the defense says or how much

496
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: Luigi Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what

497
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: really happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get

498
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: the nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But

499
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: what happened in the McDonald's Is the state going to

500
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: lose valuable evidence on illegal technicality? Why is it they

501
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: want that backpack suppressed? Straight out to Investigator at large

502
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: for dailymail dot com kill Lebrandley. What was in the backpack? Nancy?

503
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun

504
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 5: which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.

505
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 5: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it, and

506
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 5: he also had a knife on him, which was discovered

507
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 5: about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at

508
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 5: that point he was considered very dangerous.

509
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what did you say was written in

510
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Mangione's spiral notebook.

511
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 5: That was in his backpack that he wanted any use

512
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 5: the word whack the healthcare CEO whack meaning kill herd destroy.

513
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime

514
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. Tell me about the three D gun

515
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: sometimes called a ghost gun.

516
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 8: But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been

517
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 8: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We

518
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 8: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact

519
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 8: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive

520
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 8: amount of time and filament far more than any other.

521
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 8: Deliberator is the most common, and it's the easiest one

522
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 8: to print. It takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator

523
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 8: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.

524
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 8: Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.

525
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is

526
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 1: made on a three D printer. Tom, It's unserialized. That's

527
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: why they're so popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as

528
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: is long gun, is shotgun under the bed? You think

529
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: it's a three D printed gun. No, it's got a

530
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: serial number. Why is it so serious that a ghost

531
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: gun is un serialized.

532
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 11: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you

533
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 11: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.

534
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 11: And that is why so many criminals and Luigi Maggioni

535
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 11: of course went to the lengths that he did to

536
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 11: make that gun, because that is the predetermined and premeditation

537
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 11: of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that gun

538
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 11: not being traced to him, and that is part of

539
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 11: this as well.

540
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: Tom Smith, you're exactly correct. To Justin Scott Morgan. Let

541
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics

542
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.

543
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

544
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of

545
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: death sayings, and he's a star of hit podcast Body.

546
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: Back to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, what is a

547
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.

548
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon

549
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack

550
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,

551
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 4: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sound. So

552
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 4: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's

553
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 4: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,

554
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 4: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a

555
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 4: close look at that weapon. There the end of that

556
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 4: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that

557
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 4: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor

558
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 4: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.

559
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 4: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you

560
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 4: want to knock down the sound, so it's not going

561
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 4: to draw attention to you when you fired this thing.

562
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 4: Because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.

563
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 4: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there

564
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 4: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear

565
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 4: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not

566
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 4: like it's portrayed in movies, okay, but it will reduce

567
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 4: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it. And the purpose

568
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 4: of this is so that you're not going to draw

569
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 4: attention to any one. It does reduce, say, some of

570
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 4: the capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness

571
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 4: of it at a greater range. But this is this

572
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 4: is not a close range. As a matter of fact,

573
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 4: if we were to look at the body here, it

574
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 4: would be classified as indeterminate because you're not going to

575
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: have any kind of sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It

576
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 4: will have fallen away by that time, but this is

577
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 4: not too distant of a shot. You'll still have that

578
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 4: same muzzle velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.

579
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl

580
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: McCollum is with us. Cheryl who has un serialized guns

581
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: and silencers.

582
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is

583
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 2: a three D printed weapon, it's still gonna lead marking

584
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: on casons and they're gonna be able to be, you know,

585
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 2: determined that this weapon fired the bullets that murdered Brian Thompson.

586
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: So forensically, it's not going to get you out of trouble.

587
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: They may not can trace it to a manufacturer, to

588
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: a bar that they can absolutely determine that that bullet

589
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 2: was fired by that weapon.

590
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is

591
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 1: like a fish in water for you. Every day you

592
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: were getting off the streets of Manhattan guns to match

593
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: with bullets, bullets that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.

594
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the

595
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: barrel of a gun, that gun may look like all

596
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: the other guns in the gun store showcase. But it's

597
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: not because inside the barrel, the metal has cooled in

598
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: a certain way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on

599
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: the inside of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots

600
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: down the barrel, it is forever marked by those imperfections.

601
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: So when you take the murder weapon to the crime

602
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: lab and you shoot a bullet through the murder weapon,

603
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: and you take the known bullet dug out of the

604
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: victim and you put it under a microscope next to

605
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: the one you just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No

606
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: other gun, be it a three D printed gun, a

607
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 1: grandma's Bessie's out from under her her mattress, you can

608
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: track and identify like a fingerprint, that bullet came from

609
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: that gun. Isn't that true?

610
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 11: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's

611
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 11: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in

612
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 11: the twist and all of that is what you match up.

613
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 11: And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable, you know,

614
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 11: to anyone else. It is strictly to that weapon that

615
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 11: you will match up the weapon. Take the round taken

616
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 11: out of the victim and match it up and that

617
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 11: is damaging when it comes to court.

618
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are

619
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: fighting to the death in court to keep that jury

620
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 1: from every knowing of a ballistics match that his three

621
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: day pretty gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg,

622
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: the Manhattan District Attorney, For.

623
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 16: Nearly an hour we alledged to the definitet waited in

624
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 16: the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister Thompson

625
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 16: to appear. From six thirty eight am to six forty

626
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 16: four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance of

627
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 16: the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he saw

628
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 16: mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him from behind.

629
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 16: We alleged he then took out a nine millimeter three

630
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 16: D printed ghost gun equipped with a three D printed

631
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 16: suppressor and shot him once in the back and once

632
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 16: in the leg.

633
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace What about his beach bum life?

634
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: Just before the assassination.

635
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: Right around the time he disappeared, he traps off to

636
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: Asia and he went on a backpacking trip.

637
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: The beach Bumb photos and the two thousand dollars month

638
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: eye rise and the Frola King and Honolulu. Oh my goodness,

639
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: he might as well bucked up with the writz calib

640
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: Brantley Daily Mail. The defense for Luigi Maggioni is also

641
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: trying to suppress statements he allegedly made to his guards.

642
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: He had special guards behind bars, so nothing would happen

643
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: to him like it did to Epstein. So let's first

644
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British infantryman who was

645
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: minding Mangioni. What did Manngioni allegedly say to Rivers Nancy.

646
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 5: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he

647
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 5: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being

648
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 5: compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media

649
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 5: was more focused on crime, and that when you looked

650
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 5: at social media, they were really more focused about the

651
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 5: healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.

652
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 5: This was really about.

653
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Wow, sounds like a confession to me, Sky lazarro Oopsie.

654
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 14: Nancy, I agree and disagree.

655
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: Here's the problem.

656
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 14: They put these guys in a situation like that in

657
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 14: solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the

658
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 14: other thing is that we know these officers didn't document

659
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 14: any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes seven

660
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 14: times an hour about what he's doing and his well being,

661
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 14: and he don't write down anything like he just made

662
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 14: an admission.

663
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: Sky Lazarro, did you say it's a problem he's being

664
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: held in solitary. You know who else is in solitary,

665
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: Brian Thompson, except his is a casket. So you're telling

666
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: me again, I can't believe you're buying into this, Sky Lazarro,

667
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: that he's the one that's being tormented. You know what else?

668
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a

669
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: Perception by Aldus Huxley, which is all about psychedelic drug

670
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did not

671
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: read the book. But there is another guard that he

672
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in listening.

673
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 13: Officer Matt Henry wasn't chatty with the alleged killer. That

674
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 13: doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught

675
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 13: with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to

676
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 13: murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Niphelo challenges Henry, saying,

677
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 13: so he just blurted out to you that he had

678
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 13: a three D printed pistol. Henry drily replies, yes too.

679
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold joining us. She's a renowned psychiatrist out

680
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold dot com, foreim

681
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: Professor Psychiatry. It goes on and on. Former medical director

682
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady, which never has

683
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: a lack of business. I found a lot of witnesses

684
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 1: and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold. Why is

685
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: this so hard? I've met a jury's not going to

686
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: have a hard time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who

687
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: has had a lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his

688
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: guards why they're his new friends. They would never betray him,

689
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: right yep?

690
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 8: Oh sure.

691
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 17: And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort

692
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 17: of personality disorder in which he thinks about him so

693
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 17: an awful lot. So he really doesn't He may not

694
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 17: see that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't

695
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 17: suffered any consequences for any of his actions in the past,

696
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 17: and so that would make him more likely to almost

697
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 17: be bragging about what he's done and to let other

698
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 17: people know what he's done. This is typical for his

699
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 17: behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.

700
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,

701
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: star co host of gold Shields podcast, Tom, What is

702
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: wrong with rich people? Do they think they can just

703
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: get away with everything? Anything and everything they can confess

704
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,399
Speaker 1: they can stay. Yeah, they caught me with the three

705
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: D printed gun, which is the murder weapon. What is

706
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: wrong with them? Have you noticed the same sense of

707
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: entitlement sometimes does them end? Because they think they can

708
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 1: buy off everybody that everybody wants to be their friend,

709
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: but these two guards do not want to be his friend.

710
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 11: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You

711
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 11: know they've gotten what they want, did they'd neither pay

712
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 11: for it or the power that they have has influenced

713
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 11: someone's decision into what they're getting or what they're doing,

714
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 11: and they just think that holds true for every aspect

715
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 11: of their life, including killing someone. I mean, that's how

716
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 11: deranged they are when it comes to the entitlement that

717
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 11: they believe they are are owed when it comes to

718
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 11: murder or you know, killing a bride. We did that show.

719
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 11: You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming

720
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 11: up and it's absolutely disgusting.

721
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: Tom, I want you to look at a picture, if

722
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: I can get the controller to put it up for me,

723
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: dig through those files. I want to see the picture

724
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: allegedly Mangiani, who's presumed innocent, holding up the three day

725
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: with the silencer on it, pointing directly at Brian Thompson's back.

726
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: According to police, he waited an hour for just the

727
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: right moment. There's his backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's.

728
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: There's his outfit which he had with him. There's the

729
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: three D weapon, and let's look at Brian Thompson walking

730
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: along early morning going to a work conference. He shot

731
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: in the back right there. And I'm not going to

732
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: play that when he actually gets shot, because someday, somehow

733
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: his boys might look this up online and I don't

734
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: want this to be stuck in their memory. Calla Brantley.

735
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: Were any of me Gie Only's family members in court

736
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 1: and were any of the victims' family members in court

737
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 1: this week?

738
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 5: Not that we know of Nancy, but a lot of

739
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 5: Luigi's supporters And one thing, have you heard of pretty privilege?

740
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 5: Because it absolutely feels like Luigi is benefiting from that

741
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,439
Speaker 5: by having hordes of fans because he is a handsome man.

742
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 5: That he is benefiting from pretty privilege. And I'm sure

743
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: his defense team is happy that they have a relatively

744
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,280
Speaker 5: attractive man as a client.

745
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: Kiala, I don't find him attractive. Every time I look

746
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: at him, I see a tail swishing in the back

747
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: and two horns right here. That's what I see. What

748
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: is happening in court this week is critical. If this

749
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: evidence is suppressed, there may be no justice in this case.

750
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 1: A man shut down on the sidewalk on video and

751
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: no justice. We wait as justice of folds. But now

752
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 1: we remember an American Hero Reserve Deputy Sheriff John Stall,

753
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: Jefferson County Sheriff's, Indiana, killed in a line of duty

754
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 1: after fifteen years of service, leaving behind a devastated wife

755
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: turned wided American Hero Reserve Deputy Shriff John Stall. Nancy

756
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye friend,