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Speaker 1: I'm with Lucas and this is black Tech, Green money.

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Speaker 1: Ty Randolph is a groundbreaking CEO, award winning producer, serial

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Speaker 1: entrepreneur who is mastered the art attorning culture in the Capitol.

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Speaker 1: As the co founder and former CEO of Heartbeat, Ty

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Speaker 1: led the merger of Kevin Hart's entertainment companies into a

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Speaker 1: six hundred and fifty million dollar media empire, basically one

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Speaker 1: of the largest funding rounds ever by a Black homan.

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Speaker 1: In the process, she's a strategic force behind brands, platforms,

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Speaker 1: and partnerships that move culture. From working with Fortune one

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Speaker 1: hundred companies like JP, Morgan, Chase, and p ANDNG to

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Speaker 1: empowering the next generation of black entrepreneurs through her work

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Speaker 1: with Brain Trusting Rock to Bells TIS double bottom line

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Speaker 1: approach enters both on purpose and profit, creating a blueprint

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Speaker 1: for building wealth and opportunity through technology, media and unapologetic

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Speaker 1: black creativity. So you built cultural capital into ekan capital

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Speaker 1: across your career, and it's very impressive, and I wonder, like,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the things you've learned about how

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Speaker 1: to make that happen.

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Speaker 2: It's so interesting.

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Speaker 3: You know, first, thanks for acknowledging that right, Like, I

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Speaker 3: think that so often cultural capital is so undervalue, even

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Speaker 3: though it's required to drive every type of consumption across

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Speaker 3: the board, every single you know trend and you know.

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Speaker 2: All of these trends across popular culture.

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Speaker 3: But when you start talking about investing in cultural capital

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Speaker 3: or translating that to you know, economic capital, somehow there.

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Speaker 2: Seems to be a disconnect.

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Speaker 3: And what I found is that we could have all

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Speaker 3: the influence in the world, but without the infrastructure, it's

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Speaker 3: really difficult to scale that. And so what I've prided

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Speaker 3: myself on is partnering with creators, partnering with you know, institutions,

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Speaker 3: partnering with makers and entrepreneurs to really figure out how

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Speaker 3: to translate all of that influence into not just actual investment,

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Speaker 3: but sort of real equity and real enterprise on the

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Speaker 3: other side of that. And I think that's been the case,

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Speaker 3: like really driving the business case around cultural capital in.

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Speaker 2: A way that should be completely intuitive because we all

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Speaker 2: experience it every day.

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Speaker 3: The kind of packaging and harnessing that and then translating

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Speaker 3: that into IRR and rois is what's been you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of the secret sauce behind it.

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Speaker 1: So when you're going to corporations necessarily to tell these stories,

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Speaker 1: you know, w y W number one, like what do

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Speaker 1: you think corporations should be doing to invest back in

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Speaker 1: that cultural capital? And how do we position ourselves as

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Speaker 1: creators to communicate in their language.

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Speaker 3: As a project manager, I had to learn was how

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Speaker 3: to deliver, to to handle all these logistics, to influence

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Speaker 3: multiple stakeholders, get things done on time, above expectation, under budget,

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Speaker 3: and so much of that orientation, and to do so

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Speaker 3: in a way that was really driving value for everyone involved.

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Speaker 2: And I think that value creation and that sort.

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Speaker 3: Of like project and constituent management carry you know, through

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Speaker 3: and it actually helped me to platform a lot of

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Speaker 3: not just the creative endeavors I wanted to pursue, but

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Speaker 3: the creative endeavors for others. It was that sort of

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Speaker 3: how do we bring this all together and make a

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Speaker 3: story of it, How do we make the trains around

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Speaker 3: on time? And how do we ultimately show the value

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Speaker 3: for what we're creating. And so I would encourage every creator,

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Speaker 3: regardless of the vertical or industry, to really get smart

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Speaker 3: about sort of like you know, how you manage your resources,

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Speaker 3: how you influence everyone at the table and in order

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Speaker 3: to influence them, you have to understand what motivates them

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Speaker 3: and when it comes to investment, is ultimately returned.

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Speaker 1: You said a few things that I want to dig

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Speaker 1: in on. You know, you talked about data and knowing

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Speaker 1: those numbers and the ROI which and we're talking about

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Speaker 1: creators here. If I'm if I am in my own

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Speaker 1: world an influencer, I have you know, my TikTok, I

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Speaker 1: got my Instagram? At what point am I in a

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Speaker 1: position to go to a brand? How is it follower count?

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Speaker 1: Is it views on my stuff? Because I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who want to be there, but they

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Speaker 1: don't have the big numbers like you know the artists.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's value creation, right, So it's oftentimes it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: You know, brands aren't just looking for who has the

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Speaker 2: biggest audience.

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Speaker 1: Though.

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Speaker 3: Reach is important because your audience should be some indication

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Speaker 3: of how many people you'll be able to activate and

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Speaker 3: in service of some call to action from a brand.

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Speaker 3: So that's why the follower account matters. But if you've

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Speaker 3: got a really engaged audience and you've got deep penetration

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Speaker 3: and authenticity, we often see more results coming from folks

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Speaker 3: who just have very deep residency. It's the reason why

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Speaker 3: you know you'll see creators, influencers or even cultural leaders

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Speaker 3: both going to market in the same vertical, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it be spirits or fash or beauty. And you

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Speaker 3: often see outside results from folks that aren't the largest

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Speaker 3: and what is it. They're the most authentic and they

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Speaker 3: are better activators in that particular space. They can influence

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Speaker 3: their audience through their relationship with them to take.

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Speaker 2: Action on something.

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Speaker 3: And so regardless of the audience size, I think you

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Speaker 3: have to what do you brands want. Brands want to

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Speaker 3: start from the top of the funnel. They want to

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Speaker 3: gain awareness, right, They want to get folks to interact,

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Speaker 3: So they want people to know about their brands. Then

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Speaker 3: they want folks to think favorably about their brands. They

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Speaker 3: want them to interact and engage, and then ultimately they

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Speaker 3: want them to purchase or invest in those brands and

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Speaker 3: to keep coming again and doing the same thing. And

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Speaker 3: so along that funnel, think about with your audience, where

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Speaker 3: can you move the needle right and if you can

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Speaker 3: prove real qualified actions and real qualified conversions. And often

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Speaker 3: creators start by seeing how they're able to get their

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Speaker 3: audience to activate around a small all to action. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you're a comedian, are people coming to see you

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Speaker 3: at the you know, at the local comedy show. And

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Speaker 3: if you can prove to a brand that your voice

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Speaker 3: and your content and your engagement with them is going

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Speaker 3: to lead to action on behalf of the brand, regardless

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Speaker 3: of the size of the audience, brands are going to

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Speaker 3: take out.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of your work, Heartbeat Included, has

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Speaker 1: been rooted in digital innovation, and I wonder what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts are on how technology may be shaping the future

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Speaker 1: of content. You know, there are so many creators who

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Speaker 1: are just going straight to YouTube or straight to you know,

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Speaker 1: these other publishing platforms and don't need traditional media that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 3: So you know, on the we're one where you know,

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Speaker 3: in the midst of the greatest technological revolution of in

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Speaker 3: history and the speed of innovation has accelerated so fast.

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Speaker 3: When you think about predominant forms of media and how

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Speaker 3: long radio was a predominant form of media, how long

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Speaker 3: television was the predominant form of media, or you know,

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Speaker 3: once you got the Internet, how long it took to percolate.

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Speaker 3: We're just seeing methods of communication and forms of consumption

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Speaker 3: being interrupted in displace much faster down just because technology

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Speaker 3: is accelerating new things faster better. So what does that

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Speaker 3: mean for creator? So a ton of opportunity if you

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Speaker 3: think about Napster and what it did to music, right, So,

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Speaker 3: first there was you know, a huge much like the

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Speaker 3: same reaction we're having to AI right now from a

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Speaker 3: creative community. I'm going to do be disenter, you know,

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Speaker 3: disintimediated from my audience. I'm not going to be able

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Speaker 3: to sell albums anymore. Folks aren't going to be able

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Speaker 3: to experience a body of work in the way that

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Speaker 3: I intended.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of those things are true for a time, right.

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Speaker 3: But on the other side of that came a huge

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Speaker 3: democratization of music and it meant that you could be

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Speaker 3: you know, the innovation that came after it.

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Speaker 2: From you you know, Spotify and YouTube and SoundCloud.

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Speaker 3: It meant that discovery was not limited to you know,

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Speaker 3: a specific few A and R channels. It meant that

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Speaker 3: reaching an audience was not you know, you didn't have

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Speaker 3: to be on a national broadcast or have a music

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Speaker 3: video playing on one of the top cable networks in

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Speaker 3: order to do so.

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Speaker 2: So there was a huge amount of disruption and disintermediation.

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Speaker 3: There was a huge amount of opportunity, and we're seeing

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Speaker 3: the same thing but just you know, amplified what seems

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Speaker 3: like one hundred x right now. So is there a

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Speaker 3: ton of you know, protection and rights concerns around nil

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Speaker 3: and voice and all of the above and the rise

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Speaker 3: of AI, Well, contracts look different, absolutely, But it also

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Speaker 3: means that creators are able to do things.

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Speaker 2: That were once reserved for studios.

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Speaker 3: Right it means you know, creators, you know, the cost

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Speaker 3: of content production, the cost of creativity goes down, but

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Speaker 3: they're also.

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Speaker 2: Threats to the craft.

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Speaker 3: And you know, when you think about building careers digitally,

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Speaker 3: there there is still you.

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Speaker 2: Know a sense of you know, how was that home.

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Speaker 3: Some of the talent that you know, I've had the

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Speaker 3: good fortune to partner with, you know, have built their

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Speaker 3: careers over decades, right like honing it on stage, honing

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Speaker 3: it with direct to audience engagement, and there's it's very

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Speaker 3: different when you're doing that through a screen. Is it

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Speaker 3: any less valuable? You know, maybe not to the existing audience,

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Speaker 3: but there is a difference. And so, you know, I

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Speaker 3: think how craft is developed and how career is developed

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Speaker 3: or monetized with two different questions, and so so I

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Speaker 3: think there could be these these threats to craft. But

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Speaker 3: it also when so much is digitized, this this craft

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Speaker 3: holds more weight, right like what you put into that

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Speaker 3: work and how you develop that that you start to

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Speaker 3: place a premium on it. But you know the net

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Speaker 3: net is tons more access and more opportunity, but also

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Speaker 3: more competition right in the market as a result of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to go a step deeper because you

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Speaker 1: make me think about it. I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: church and I remember there were people. Yeah, there are people,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure you've seen who could sing better than

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Speaker 1: anybody who's got a record deal, you know, but they're

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Speaker 1: never going to get one for whatever reason. And I wonder,

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Speaker 1: then listening to you talk, just because you're good or

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Speaker 1: talented doesn't mean you know how to get found. And

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Speaker 1: I wonder, like what your thoughts are on how do

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Speaker 1: people get found? Because you're to your point like it's

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Speaker 1: more competition now, like the landscape is completely changed. And

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Speaker 1: to add on to that question, like did COVID change

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Speaker 1: any of that? Because now we don't need to be

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Speaker 1: necessarily in New York or in LA or in some

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Speaker 1: of these places. Right necessarily, I.

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Speaker 3: Was actually floored by the amount of innovation that's happening

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Speaker 3: in the classroom. Is such a young age now in

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Speaker 3: so many of these schools, and we're based in LA

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Speaker 3: but you know, you've got six and seven year olds

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Speaker 3: who are doing podcasting and.

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Speaker 2: These very advanced team studios.

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Speaker 3: But in doing so, they're learning how to craft story

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Speaker 3: around themselves and actually thinking about how to monetize and

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Speaker 3: how to promote. Those both scary and wildly enlightening on

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Speaker 3: the other side. And so I'll say there's a difference.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know what the term is, right, if

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Speaker 3: we were beyond digital natives, you know, like it's a

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Speaker 3: complete digital first generation. And so I would say, I

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Speaker 3: think that this next generation is much more savvy about

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Speaker 3: discovery and promotion than than perhaps those who are.

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Speaker 2: Doing it right now at the moment, you know, are.

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Speaker 3: That being said, what is required, what it means to

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Speaker 3: be a storyteller, what it means to be a creator

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Speaker 3: at this moment, I believe means being part artists, part scientists.

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Speaker 3: Right before I think we were and again, I was

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Speaker 3: a film major, and you know, I thought that I

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Speaker 3: was going to have this like really beautiful romantic career

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Speaker 3: in the art. And and I think, you know, I've

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Speaker 3: had the exact career I was supposed to have. And

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Speaker 3: I younifasted myself a storyteller and a business builder and

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Speaker 3: that artists and scientists, and so you know, you need

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Speaker 3: to be engaged in story and you need to make

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Speaker 3: meaning of things, and you also have to figure out,

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Speaker 3: you know, how to mechanize that in order to get

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Speaker 3: it seen and to for it to be consumed. Even

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Speaker 3: if you're not directly involved in digital distribution, if you

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Speaker 3: are telling story in any form, if you're creating in

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Speaker 3: any form, you at least need to understand how it

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Speaker 3: will ultimately be distributed or consumed.

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Speaker 2: Right, so you have some context with with what you're creating.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's what I would say.

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Speaker 3: I would say that it is that is the mandate now,

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Speaker 3: right to know the what and to be committed to

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Speaker 3: the what and doing it in a way that is

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Speaker 3: uniquely you that only.

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Speaker 2: You can put your footprint on. But really understanding the how.

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Speaker 3: As well, And I don't know that that was as important,

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Speaker 3: and you know sort of previous generations.

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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned your kids in the kind of

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Speaker 1: education they're getting today versus how we grew up, you know,

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Speaker 1: when we were going on. I mean, they asked you

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Speaker 1: you want to be a fireman, you want to be

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Speaker 1: a police officer, these sorts of things. And these kids

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Speaker 1: now want to be mister beasts and they want to

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Speaker 1: be you know, YouTubers and Kaya sanin I Show Speed

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Speaker 1: and all these guys. And I wonder what Ty thinks

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Speaker 1: about if her seven year old concerns like I want

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Speaker 1: to be a YouTuber therefore like nothing, I don't care

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Speaker 1: about anything else. This is where I'm going.

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Speaker 3: H m hm.

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Speaker 2: So that's happened. I don't know too many parents from

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Speaker 2: whom that hasn't just because of them. We you know,

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Speaker 2: we try to be you know, really good stewards and

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Speaker 2: not over index on on screen time.

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Speaker 3: But as a parent, forget about you know, the executive,

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Speaker 3: the entrepreneur. As a parent, I I definitely have serious concerns,

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Speaker 3: and not just about technology, but what technology unlocked. So

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Speaker 3: clearly there's safety concerns and you want to be really vigilant.

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Speaker 3: There's a level of discernment concerns what's real and what's

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Speaker 3: not that I think we're dealing with for the first time,

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Speaker 3: like now with AI, like you're watching you know, if

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Speaker 3: if someone's consuming something and they don't have a point

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Speaker 3: of reference for it in the real world, or what

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Speaker 3: is the real world anymore? As a parent, right, there

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Speaker 3: are these big kind of ethical considerations. But I think

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Speaker 3: that when you talk about creators so often, what we're

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Speaker 3: defaulting to in that discussion can be some kind of influence. Right.

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Speaker 3: But like what we found our the conversation we have

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Speaker 3: found ourselves having with our seven year old.

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Speaker 2: To see his picture right there, like a smart kid,

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Speaker 2: was the difference between like fame and.

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Speaker 3: Validation and the making of something right. And so it's

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Speaker 3: so you know, what do you want to make and

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Speaker 3: what do you want to contribute, and you know, how

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Speaker 3: do you want to be in the world versus how

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Speaker 3: many people know you and how do you want to

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Speaker 3: be seen? And that's a pressure that was not on

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Speaker 3: that children are facing in mass It's ampletely unrealistic pressure

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Speaker 3: that everyone should have this level of fame and notoriety.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I'm no psychologists, but I just wonder

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Speaker 3: what that's doing to the psyche. And so as a parent,

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Speaker 3: I'm really guarding against that. But I think it's a

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Speaker 3: bigger question for us as a creative community, right like

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Speaker 3: where does where?

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Speaker 2: What is the role of craft now?

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Speaker 3: Philosophical and ethical conversations, And what I've come to is,

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Speaker 3: I just want my child to be very curious minded,

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Speaker 3: to be you know, to have a critical eye right

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Speaker 3: and discerning, and to to be a deep thinker and

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Speaker 3: to understand and to be a deep thinker and a

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Speaker 3: continuous learner, because I think that those are the and

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Speaker 3: and you start to default to the fundamentals, like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I want you to appreciate philosophy.

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Speaker 2: You should really be thinking about, you know, sort of

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Speaker 2: like how you show.

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Speaker 3: Up in the world and what it means to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, a good citizen of the world, because there's

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Speaker 3: so much more access right like everything that we kind

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Speaker 3: of imagine they're able to do and touch.

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Speaker 2: In a much more accessible way.

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Speaker 3: And so then you just have to have a higher

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Speaker 3: level of discernment and critical thinking skills.

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Speaker 1: What would you study today, knowing what you now know

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Speaker 1: about ties place in the world, your contribution that you

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Speaker 1: wanted to make, wealth creation, even what choice would you

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Speaker 1: make today?

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Speaker 2: That's so interesting?

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Speaker 4: I would say I would probably go on to film

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Speaker 4: school like I never did. I never got an be

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Speaker 4: a I would go to film school, but it would

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Speaker 4: be I would I would do that, I would study philosophy.

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Speaker 2: And I say that because I think film school is just.

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Speaker 3: A more accessible way of There are lots of ways

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Speaker 3: into philosophy and there is a deep study of like

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Speaker 3: how humans behave and how story is passed down and

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Speaker 3: you know, how humans make meaning of things that happens

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Speaker 3: in filmmaking, but that happens in philosophy. Because I think

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Speaker 3: it's I think you have to just have a real

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Speaker 3: perspective on where all this goes and why all this

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Speaker 3: is and because the tools are there. I'm so excited.

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Speaker 2: About how AI is and not just AI AI are,

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Speaker 2: and how AI.

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Speaker 3: Has also let so many technologies now have its moment,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think for it, take VR for instance,

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Speaker 3: it's having a QR code moment. Like I used to

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Speaker 3: work in marketing for years, like ten years, I worked

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Speaker 3: for ad agencies and we were always you know, seduced

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Speaker 3: to putting QR codes on anything that folks couldn't access.

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Speaker 3: And it took the smartphone to really unlock that, Like

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Speaker 3: you had to have the technology accessible to really be

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Speaker 3: able for it to drive mass adoption and the moment

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Speaker 3: in time, right, it was like the smartphone plus COVID

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, QR codes we've been talking

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Speaker 3: about for like fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: Had a real use case.

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Speaker 3: So what AI has done for so many technologies really

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Speaker 3: making them more scalable and accessible, and so many of

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Speaker 3: the ideas that we had, you know, can now unlock

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Speaker 3: in real time. That's that's really really exciting. And so

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Speaker 3: the things and I used to have the saying in

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Speaker 3: every job, no matter what it was, you know, independent

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Speaker 3: of AI, I would say, let the machines do what

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Speaker 3: the machines could do, so the people could do what

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Speaker 3: the people could do. So I didn't want to spend

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Speaker 3: my time on spreadsheets or doing you know, task.

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Speaker 2: That could be automated.

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Speaker 3: And now they're big thinking human task that can be automated.

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Speaker 2: And so the question becomes what do the people do

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Speaker 2: in this this ecosystem?

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Speaker 3: And so one is to have experience, right, so you

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Speaker 3: think think differently about you know, what we experienced in

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Speaker 3: the real world. How we bring a human lens to

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Speaker 3: the life lived, right, Like we're the ones who get

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Speaker 3: to live this life.

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Speaker 2: How you bring the human experience to that, but service

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Speaker 2: has become so much more important.

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Speaker 3: We spend so much time in a virtual world, so

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Speaker 3: the time that we spend together becomes so important. Happen

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Speaker 3: on the board of Rock to Bell's, and you know,

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Speaker 3: they do a lot of experiences. We just announced we're

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Speaker 3: bringing back our annual Rock the Bells Fest, And there's

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Speaker 3: something about getting people in a room consuming music together

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Speaker 3: and having a shared experience together that you know can

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Speaker 3: can just not be replaced. It can be augmented, it

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Speaker 3: can be amplified, but you can't really duplicate it completely.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, I think so I would really

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Speaker 3: so when when so as machines become smarter. Going back

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Speaker 3: to the question, what would I study, it would probably

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Speaker 3: be philosophy to think, as things evolve, how do we

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Speaker 3: evaluate ourselves, what responsibilities do we have?

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Speaker 2: Where are the lines around ethix that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm been thinking about something you said a minute

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Speaker 1: ago in finding your unique voice in media and marketing

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Speaker 1: in a cet like, I can't be Kevin Hart, I

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Speaker 1: can't be Kai Sanid, I can't.

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Speaker 2: Be those guys.

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Speaker 1: But I think about also, how do you, as a

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Speaker 1: person in your position advise people to find their voice

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Speaker 1: and have confidence in their voice when they may not

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Speaker 1: have the traction in the early days, to continue to

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Speaker 1: have the confidence that they will ultimately make it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's so many proof points in use cases

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Speaker 3: around us. You look at someone like Adoche, you look

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Speaker 3: at Tabitha Brown, where it was it was it was

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Speaker 3: that being left of center or outside of what everyone

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Speaker 3: was saying.

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Speaker 2: It was that that breaks through. And when the algorithm

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Speaker 2: feeds you sameness, distinction is a delicacy, right, It's such

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Speaker 2: a premium.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, you might be able to press copy,

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Speaker 3: paste and repeat on whatever the person besides you is doing.

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Speaker 2: But the chances that that will.

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Speaker 3: Scale, like they're just very few proof points of a

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Speaker 3: I'm going to copy what that person did that is

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Speaker 3: breaking through now because there's so much Now, could you

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Speaker 3: have moderate success or could you attribute a follower account

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Speaker 3: by following the algorithm? Sure, But when you think about

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Speaker 3: what it means to build a brand today, whether that's

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Speaker 3: a personal brand, a creative brand, a brand and business,

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Speaker 3: it's going to require some distinction. It's much harder to

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Speaker 3: break through. And so I would say that like your

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Speaker 3: uniqueness is all you have, it's like your number one quality.

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Speaker 3: And it's counterintuitive because you know, being on platforms, consuming media,

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Speaker 3: you'll be you know, enticed to think that like, let

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Speaker 3: me just you know, double click on this.

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Speaker 2: But everyone who we want to emulate has stepped outside

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Speaker 2: of the box, right, And.

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Speaker 3: So I really love seeing people you know, champing creativity

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Speaker 3: and uniqueness in this space where you know, it's essentially

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Speaker 3: it can become, if we're not careful, a platform on

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Speaker 3: which we mass produce creativity. And really, what I think

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Speaker 3: the promise of all of this new technology is, particularly

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Speaker 3: ai The promise is to be able, especially when we

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Speaker 3: talk about folks who have been you know, disenfranchised, under

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Speaker 3: invested in in the past, you know, black folks, women,

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Speaker 3: There is there is this, there is this promise. We'll see,

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Speaker 3: we'll see if it is you know, fulfilled. That this

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Speaker 3: could be a great equalizer in certain ways. Right, we

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Speaker 3: can start businesses with fewer resources, you know, we can

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Speaker 3: scale ideas in faster ways to have a more competitive edge.

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Speaker 3: And that's where you know, not to replace the creative

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Speaker 3: parts of ourselves, but to really scale you know, where

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00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 3: we had those production challenges, right, really scale where we

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Speaker 3: had those you know, sort of resource challenges and unlock

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Speaker 3: all these amazing and brilliant ideas that we had and so,

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Speaker 3: you know, working on some things now that will you know,

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Speaker 3: specifically for us, you know, making help, trying to make

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Speaker 3: or that we have a voice and we're represented. Because

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Speaker 3: while there is that great promise, one of the great

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Speaker 3: threats is if you look at where the investment in

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Speaker 3: the Internet went right during you know, instead of dot

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Speaker 3: com and post dot com and who which innovators were platforms,

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Speaker 3: they look exactly like those who where the investment is

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Speaker 3: trending now and who's being platformed. And so not only

439
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 3: do we need to make sure that we're adopting because

440
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 3: you know, there are disparities in our adoption of any

441
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: of these tools and technologies, we have to make sure

442
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 3: that regarding the investment, there were scaling platforms that we

443
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: own with these and so there's.

444
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 2: Again the two sided coin.

445
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,200
Speaker 3: There's a huge promise or potential should I say, for

446
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: a great democrazation and acceleration, but we really have to

447
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 3: make sure that we're counted because it could just as

448
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 3: easily be that this is the next big, you know

449
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 3: revolution where we're sort of sidelined and.

450
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the legendary James Todd Smith,

451
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: U Jay, because I had a question. I was thinking

452
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: about him, and I remember going to a conference that

453
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: he spoke at some time ago, and he was on

454
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 1: stage and he was talking about the business side of

455
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: the music business, and he I remember him saying that

456
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: the word business is longer than the word music, and

457
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: that's really where your attention should be if you're going

458
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: to be an artist. And then listening to you talk,

459
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: you talk a lot about how artists need to understand

460
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: creators need to understand that data, they need to understand

461
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 1: the ROI but a lot of them, as you know

462
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: I have, they they're just creators, like they have no

463
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: clue what the numbers mean. And there's a there's another

464
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: rapper who I won't mention the name, but I remember

465
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: him saying that he didn't he no longer believed artists

466
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: need managers. They needed coos.

467
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: That was his thought.

468
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like this, I can see that. I can

469
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: I get it. I get the sentiment. I will say that,

470
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: And so I wonder your thoughts on how creators who

471
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: may not have the I'm just funny, I'm just looking

472
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 1: and can act a little like how to figure that

473
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: stuff out?

474
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: Right?

475
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 2: Look, I think so one you know, Todd has had.

476
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: A forty year career in music, and it's it's interesting,

477
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: you know, sort of working closely with someone like that,

478
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: because the number of times that you have to talk

479
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 3: about a continuous learner, right, and someone who's just like

480
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 3: relentlessly curious is probably you know, one of his just

481
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: most admirable attributes, like the willingness to be able to

482
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: like to continue to learn, and I wouldn't even say

483
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: reinvent yourself, but to continue to learn and leverage everything

484
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 3: that you learn in service and perpetuating.

485
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 2: Your art and your craft and your life's work.

486
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: Right to continue you know, you've got this mission, you've

487
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: got this vision, and you just take everything that you

488
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: come across over the course of decades and you continue

489
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: to put that back in and then you form these

490
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 3: ideas like the one that you just express based on

491
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: everything that you're learning.

492
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: I really don't think you.

493
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 3: Can afford today to be just a creator and not

494
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: a have some business acumen. And I say that because

495
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: if we look twenty years ago, but even ten years ago,

496
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: creators you can say creators have an opportunity to promote

497
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: themselves across social Instagram and you know TikTok and now,

498
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: but they.

499
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: Almost have an obligation to now, right, Like you have

500
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 2: to be able to put the workout.

501
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: Even the machines that organize around us, the labels, the managers,

502
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: the agents, they're still going to require you to be

503
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: able to like they have to market you through a stream.

504
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: And those streams are analytical in nature, right, their algorithmic

505
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 3: in nature, and so it would be just very I

506
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 3: don't it be very difficult?

507
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: Now? Does that mean that everyone has to be digital first?

508
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 3: Does that mean that everyone has to take the same

509
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: approach to promotion or that everyone has to say, Okay,

510
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 3: I'm going to build an enterprise, you know, around myself.

511
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: Maybe not right, They're going to be different flavors, just

512
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 3: like in business, pure entrepreneurs operate on different levels of scale.

513
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 3: But creativity in a digital age is inherently entrepreneurial period,

514
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 3: regardless of how. And so there's certain tools that you'll

515
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: have to use. And I talk about this sort of

516
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 3: like spectrum regarding deal structures and return or levels of

517
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: entrepreneurship in creativity, and particularly when it comes to partner

518
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 3: with brands and so you know, on the one hand,

519
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 3: but you could sort of extract that and apply it

520
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 3: to any type of partnership. You start out with endorsement,

521
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 3: I do a thing, I get paid for think, and

522
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 3: that's fine.

523
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: But you still, even in this.

524
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: You know ecosystem, have to understand the economics of even

525
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 3: how endorsements are calculated to make sure that you're thinking

526
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 3: about it the right way, because to your earlier point,

527
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: those endorsement deals might be influenced by your reach, it

528
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: might be influenced by the amount of and it's definitely

529
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 3: going to be an influenced by the amount of return

530
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: that you're able to drive. So you start with endorsement,

531
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 3: and then you move down the spectrum to equity. So

532
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 3: folks say, look, I'm.

533
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 2: I'm driving a lot of value for you.

534
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 3: I want participation and how this thing performs beyond just

535
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 3: you know sort of you know what I did in

536
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: this specific campaign or what I did in the specific transaction.

537
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: And then you have you know, really innovative entrepreneurs and

538
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 3: creators who are now saying, no, I am because of

539
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 3: how influence Because influencers shifted away from institutions to individuals

540
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: and these individual brands are now some of the fastest

541
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: grown entrant in segments. You talked about mister Beasts and

542
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 3: you know, think about when was the last time the chocolate.

543
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: Industry was disrupted or so you or or look at

544
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: you know.

545
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: Kim Kardashjeriniki right now, I mean you see these incredible

546
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 3: or I mean there's across the border. Look at someone

547
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 3: like Tabitha Brown, who is innovating across so many different

548
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: verticals where it could have been pure endorsement, and I'm

549
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: sure she still has some endorsements, but where it's okay,

550
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 3: Like I know that through my passion, my voice, my

551
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 3: specific point of view, I'm able to drive these returns.

552
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: And then you get all the way to enterprise. And

553
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: I don't really care where you play on that spectrum,

554
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: but what you notice is there's some inherent business acumunity.

555
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: Even if you have a team managing all of that

556
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: for you, that's required to know how to navigate along

557
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: that path. And so again, you could be a comedian

558
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 3: starting out in the club. You could be a visual artist.

559
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 3: So many of the artists that you know, so many

560
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 3: of the visual artists that I discovered I find on

561
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 3: Instagram and so if.

562
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: We think just as users, how it end.

563
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: I will say, I think the distinction between creator and

564
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: consumer has also collapsed.

565
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: Right, Like you talked about our children coming to us

566
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: and saying here's what I want to do.

567
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: It's because every single time we post everything, single time

568
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: we share, we're contributing to the creator economy. So there's

569
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: not that distinction, and creators want to consumers want to

570
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 3: have a voice and expect more buy in and expect

571
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 3: to be able to direct more.

572
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: And so I think all of this just leads to.

573
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 3: An owner ship economy where we're all having to become

574
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 3: and have an opportunity to be a lot more savvy

575
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: around where we invest our time, our attention, and ultimately

576
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: our money.

577
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: All Right, last one, what is the best career advice

578
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: you've received that would be helpful to this audience?

579
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 3: M So it's interesting because I think I said it

580
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: and I actually had to find myself taking my own advice.

581
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 3: I always said my career was a river, not a ladder.

582
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: And I think that you know, whether you're in corporate

583
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: or you're a creator, it's really important to think that

584
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: I named my son Nile, and it's you know, I

585
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: wanted him to.

586
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: For a number of reasons.

587
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 3: But you know, I think there's a fluidity to to

588
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 3: to how particularly now when things are changing so fast.

589
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: Before you could go to practice a craft, you were marketing.

590
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: You know, you get your MBA and you know you

591
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 2: could be a CpG marketer for twenty years and not.

592
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: You go to some professional development classes, but you don't

593
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: really have to innovate a tunnel on what.

594
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: Is that you're doing.

595
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: And now we have to be these continuous learners. And

596
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 3: I found that, you know, I told you I wanted

597
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: to go to film school first. I ended up, you know,

598
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: doing aerospace and defense marketing. I would have crafted it

599
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 3: out in a much more linear way if I was,

600
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: you know, going from point eight to point B. But

601
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: every single you know bend in the river, every single

602
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: time there was you know, things sped up, slowed down.

603
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: It all contributed to where I am now. And every

604
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: one of those experiences was so meaningful. You kind of

605
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: like like a river, you pick up deposits all along

606
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: the way. And so I always say to be focused

607
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: on where you want to go and really flexible on

608
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: how you get there.

609
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: And that's that served me.

610
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: All Black tech, Green money is a production to Blavity

611
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Afro Tech on the Black Effect Podcast Network and night

612
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: Hire Media. It's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,

613
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: with the additional production support by Kate McDonald s J McGee.

614
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis in Lovebeach. Learn more

615
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: about my guess of the tech distruct as an innovators

616
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: at afrotech dot com. The video version of this episode

617
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, so

618
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share us

619
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: to somebody go get your money. Peace and love,