1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: How does a professional surfer, Wooden Steak, and so called 2 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: serpent DNA fit into the story of two missing children. 3 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. Take a listen to 4 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: our friends at crime online dot com. On Saturday, Matthew 5 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Coleman and his family get ready to go camping. Coleman, 6 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: the founder of Love Water Surfing School, his wife, and 7 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: their two children, a two year old son and ten 8 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: month old daughter. But Matthew Coleman takes off in the 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: family's Mercedes Sprinter event with the children, but without his wife. 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: Missus Coleman says over the next twenty four hours, her 11 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: husband would not answer texts, so she uses to find 12 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: my phone funk and on her laptop to discover Matthew 13 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: Coleman is in Rosa, Rita, Mexico. It's a beach town 14 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: about sixteen miles south of the border city of Tijuana. Okay, 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: so much. I got so much information from that. And 16 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: when you are preparing for trial, which is how I 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: look at practically everything since law school, every single fact matters, 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: and I was hearing so much. Dad is a professional surfer. 19 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: He runs a surf school, Love Water Surf School, obviously 20 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: is very athletic, a real outdoors person. I learned he's 21 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: got a wife, he's got these two little children, one 22 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: two years old, one ten months old. I learned they've 23 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: got a Mercedes Sprinter, which really strikes a chord with me, 24 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: because we're big into the r V and camping. We 25 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: are every summer. We camp every summer, and my husband's 26 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: dream vehicle is a Mercedes Sprinter. They're really expensive. We 27 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: don't have one, so we stick to renting a big 28 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: old hank In RV every time we go anywhere. But 29 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: the sprinters are set up for four people, and it 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: looks like a van on the outside, but it's really 31 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: nice and it turns into a sleeper. And I'm just 32 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: thinking this through. Where did he get the money for 33 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: a Mercedes Sprinter? And I'm also thinking about the unlikely 34 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: scenario that the twin my children would be in the 35 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: car with my husband and I'm not in there, and 36 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: then he takes off with the children and I can't 37 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: find him, and I have to use find my iPhone 38 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: app or the Life three sixty app to try to 39 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: find him. I'm getting all that from just that one 40 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: bye that we got from our friends at crime online. 41 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: Let me introduce to you and all Star panel. Just 42 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: wait for it. You're gonna hear about the Wooden Steak, 43 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: you are going to hear about missing children, and you're 44 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: going to hear about so called serpent DNA. But let's 45 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: don't put the cart before the horse. With me California prosecutor, 46 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: author of Red Flags on Amazon, hosted Today with doctor 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: Wendy on KCBQ San Diego. Wendy Patrick joining us Karen Starke, 48 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: renowned New York psychologists and you can find her at 49 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen with a See Death 50 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: Investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, 51 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Starves 52 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: several hit series, including the Piketon Massacre. Returned to Pike 53 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: County on iHeartRadio. But first I want to go to 54 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: senior reporter with San Diego Union Tribune, Wendy Frye, and 55 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: you can find her on Twitter at Wendy fry Underscore Wendy. Now, 56 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: wait a minute. You know my sister and her family 57 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: live out in California, and that's how I became acquainted 58 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: with a surfing scene because her children, a boy and 59 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: a girl, would get up in the morning and go surfing. 60 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: They go surfing before they go to school in the morning. 61 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: If you took the twins out on the pier and 62 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: you'll look out. I think we were at Santa Cruz 63 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: and we were looking out and you can see little 64 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: black dots all out in the water. And the twins said, 65 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: what's that? And I said, those are surfers. There were 66 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: like forty of them out there waiting for the perfect wave. 67 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: This is eight o'clock in the morning, and they're black wetsuits. 68 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: And we went up to the surf school. It's a 69 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 1: huge industry, it's very expensive, and it's a whole way 70 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: of life. Would you agree with that, Wendy Fry? Absolutely, Nancy. 71 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: It absolutely is a way of life, a lifestyle. And 72 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: if you look at mister Coleman's you know, social media 73 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: accounts and his Instagram, he is totally devoted to this lifestyle. 74 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: He loves the ocean. All his posts are about um 75 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: you know, underwater posts or waves and he runs its 76 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: Love Water Surf Company, which they're very expensive surfering peoples 77 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: to send your kids to UM in Santa Barbara uh 78 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: and also white, white, white white. Wendy, Wendy. Yeah, okay, Wendy, 79 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: I know you're used to a formal Q and A, 80 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: but this is kind of imagine all of us sitting 81 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: around a table having a big plate of spaghetti. That's 82 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: just what comes to mind right now, and none of 83 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: us agree on anything, so we're all interrupting and fighting. Okay, 84 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: that's what it's like to prop for t Now did 85 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: you say, Santa Barbara, is that where that where all 86 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: the rich people live? Like? Is that where is that 87 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: where Harry and Megan live? And? Uh do I have 88 00:05:53,520 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: that bassa? Yeah? Is that where people? Aia? Absolutely? Okay, beautiful, 89 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: it's beautiful for the sunshine. Yeah, you really did, you 90 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: really do. But when we say this whole surf school 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: and the surfing lifestyle, I mean the surfing a live. 92 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: It's a lifestyle. You've got to really be devoted to it. 93 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: And you also said his school is super expensive. Yeah, 94 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: very expensive. Yes, kids to surfing school. Absolutely. Was his 95 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: wife part of the whole surfing scene or just him 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: It looked like he was. He was mainly the surfer 97 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: in the family. Um, But you know, it's it's this 98 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: lifestyle that that's you know, natural, being in nature, being outside, 99 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: a love for fish, a love for oceanum and she 100 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: definitely seems to have shared in that with him. You know, 101 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I've got another issue going through my mind right now. 102 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,039 Speaker 1: You know, Karen Stark, you've been with me since before 103 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: I was pregnant with the twins and they are thirteen now. 104 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: It would you know, it would be a cold day 105 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: in h double Oyle that my husband, David Lynch would 106 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 1: drive off with my twins, my children and I not 107 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: know where they're going and have to try to find 108 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: him on an app with the children. What kind of 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: thinking is that she looks on there and finds out 110 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: he crossed the border. He's near to Jajuanna with the 111 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: children and without her. And that's that's what makes me 112 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: think that's something else must have been going on, Nancy. 113 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: Karen Starr, you know, you know I think a great 114 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: deal of you. But telling me something else is going on, 115 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: I know that, I know that. I mean, Karen Star, 116 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: you remind me of Henry Lee and O. J. Simpson 117 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: where he said something is wrong. Well, I know that 118 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: the two dead bodies with the heads chopped off in 119 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: the driveway, but I need you to give me more 120 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: in depth. What is that when a person a husband 121 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: or wife, totally disregards the feelings of the spouse and 122 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: takes off with their the crown, the jewel in their crown, 123 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: their children, the relationship between the husband and wife is 124 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: not okay. I'm convinced about that, Nancy, because you, as 125 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: you said, David would never do that now. But this 126 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: man just takes off impulsively or of not. We don't know, 127 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: and the wife doesn't know where he is. How many 128 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: times has that happened before. We don't really know, but 129 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: there is something wrong in the family where the communication 130 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: has definitely you know you're right, Karen, because there is 131 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: no way that I would do that to Damon, even 132 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: if I was irritated or angry with him, I wouldn't 133 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: do that. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, I want to 134 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: follow through with where we are right now. We've got 135 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: the wife standing there, the husband takes off with the 136 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: children ps not using a car seat. One is two years, 137 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: one is just a few months old, ten months old. 138 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: But why take a listen to this? Using surveillance images, 139 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: authorities in Mexico determined that on Saturday evening, at around eight, 140 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: Coleman had checked into a City Express hotel in Rosarito 141 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: with his two children early Monday morning, shortly before three am. 142 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: Coleman can be seen in those surveillance images leaving the 143 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: hotel with his kids, but then returns about three and 144 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: a half hours later by himself. Santa Barbara police confirmed 145 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: that Coleman's wife had reported her husband and her two 146 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: young children missing, saying she was concerned for their well being. Okay, 147 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: right there, let me go straight back out to Wendy Fry, 148 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: senior reporter, San Diego Union Tribune. You can find her 149 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: at Wendy Underscore Fray. Wendy, let me understand this. Where 150 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: are they at this point this hotel that he the 151 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: City Express Hotel and Rosarito with his two children. Where 152 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: is that in relationship to where he left a wife? 153 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: So it's about a thirty minute drive south of the border. 154 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: They're on the northern end of Rosario, sort of closer 155 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: to the main town of Rosarizo. And it's just a 156 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: very cheap motel that you can check into forty bucks 157 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: maybe at any time. And obviously the police were able 158 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: to later go back and pull the video of him 159 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: doing that and seeing the kids there, you know, with 160 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: him as he's trying to check in. So you say, 161 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: it's thirty minutes south of the border. How far is 162 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: that away from their home and the surf school all 163 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: that in Santa Barbara. Several hours it'd be. It would 164 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: be definitely several hours, what three or so or four 165 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: hour drive and you drive along a scenic route along 166 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: the beach. And what's interesting about that is there's toll roads, 167 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: checkpoints every ten twenty miles or so, and that you 168 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: have to stop and pay pacos for and there's cameras there, 169 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: so they would probably be able to go back and 170 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: pull you know, all the video surveillance of him. To 171 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, host of Today with Doctor Wendy CASEYBQ, Wendy, 172 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: three hours drive, you know what I call that premeditation. 173 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: He has time to think about the fact that he's 174 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: kidnapped the children from the mom. He has time on 175 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: this long route and waiting in the Mexican border stop 176 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: to think about the fact that he's not answering his 177 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 1: wife's phone calls, he hasn't told her where he is, 178 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: and he is now in possession of the two children 179 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: with complete disregard for his wife. Yeah, Nanthew, that's gonna 180 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: That's very important. This isn't just taking the kids up 181 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: or ice cream somewhere and being gone a couple hours 182 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: or necessarily forgetting to tell the wife, Hey, I'm taking 183 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: the kids to the park. This does mack of premeditation, 184 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: and it also the length of time it takes. And 185 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: now that I hear from my colleague and friend Wendy Fry, 186 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: there are polar roads, and there are other impediments and 187 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: obstacles and challenges actually getting to the destination that even 188 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: expounds this labor that's involved in going from point A 189 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 1: to point B, all without the White's knowledge and apparently 190 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: causing her some serious concern which may tell us that 191 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: this is not normal behavior for this man either. So 192 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: right now there is an APB all points bulletin for 193 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: these two little children, Kaleo age three and Roxy just 194 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: ten months old. The mom, Abby Coleman, wringing her hands, 195 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: trying to find her husband and her children, and then 196 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: the worst outcome apparents' nightmare. Take a listen to our 197 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: cut one. This is Karen Cruz is joining us from 198 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: KKFX Fox eleven two. Something about a children were found 199 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: dead with stab wounds and California, Mehico. I saw some 200 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: bloodstains and I looked a little further. My dog was 201 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: the one that located the two tiny bodies. I did 202 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: not know the gender of the bodies, and I did 203 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: not want to look any closer and left, so I 204 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: called nine one one. According to Baja California State Attorney 205 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: General's Office, a ranch employee found bloodstains and the body 206 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: of two children, ages one and three, with stab wounds. 207 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: A wooden steak stained with blood was also found. I 208 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: want to go straight out to Jo Scott Morgan, professor 209 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: of forensics at Jacksonville State University. You and I have 210 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 1: dealt with a lot of cases that are on the 211 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: other side of the border. I've investigated them, I have 212 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: worked them, I've reported on them, I've written about them. 213 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: When you get tangled up with the Mexican police, you 214 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: don't know when or if you're going to get an answer. 215 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: You have no idea what's going on. This mother, Abby 216 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: Coleman has already lived through trying to deal with Mexican 217 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: authorities trying to find her children, and now this, I mean, 218 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, do I even have to say al 219 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: Chapo who managed to build what a mile or so 220 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: long tunnel underneath the gailhouse and literally drive a motorcycle 221 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: through it, and the Mexican authorities had no idea what 222 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: was going on, And now she is trying to find 223 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: out about her children and she gets this news, Jos, 224 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: kind of have you ever dealt with a case across 225 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: the border? It's awful. Yes, it's an absolute nightmare. And 226 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: can you imagine being a young mama and not knowing 227 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: the status of your babies, not knowing where they are, 228 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: and then they're on the other side of the border. 229 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: You can't get your hands on them, you can't comfort them. 230 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: You know, think about these this, Nancy. You're obviously a parent. 231 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: I'm a parent, and kids this age they need their mama. 232 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: They cry, they need comforting, and you know, these kids 233 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: are in a position. I'm a firm believer the kids 234 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: can sense fhere, even at a very young age, they 235 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: would know. I think, on one level, even if it's 236 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: a primal level, that something's up, you know, because mom's 237 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: generally in our atmosphere, she's not and we've been on 238 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: it's not just it's not like he took them down 239 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: the playgront All right, this is a long, long trip, 240 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: so their anxiety would have been up as well. And 241 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: I think concurrently, mama's anxiety is up to and then 242 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: she's faced with having to deal with these folks on 243 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: the other side of the border to try to get answers. 244 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: It's an absolute parental horror show, you know. I'm thinking 245 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: about Wendy Fry, senior reporter San Diego Union Tribune, when 246 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: she first found out about that surveillance video. And there's surveillance. 247 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: The video shows a husband at City Express Hotel and 248 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: Rosa Rito with his two children. He checks in with them, 249 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: but he doesn't out with them. The video shows him leaving, 250 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: but he's by himself, right. He was leaving in the 251 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: middle of the night, and he has the kids, he 252 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: has the stroller, and that's from an elevator shot. And 253 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: then he comes back a few hours later without the children. 254 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: So he left it like three in the morning, in 255 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: the middle of the night. And of course these kids 256 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: must have known something was going on. I mean, he 257 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: got the baby in a box in the Mercedes printer van, right, 258 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: so the three year old must know the baby's supposed 259 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: to be in a car seat, not in a box. Yeah, 260 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: I imagine these kids, we're rought with beer the whole time. 261 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, Wendy Fry, What do you mean 262 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: the baby, the ten months old was in a box, 263 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: so he didn't have a car seat, so he put 264 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: The affidavit says he told the FBI that he had 265 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: put the baby in a box in the van to 266 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: drive down there. I'm sorry for the dead air right there, 267 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: just trying to take in what you're saying, Wendy. You know, 268 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: I've asked a lot of people this, but does it 269 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: ever get to you when you cover these cases? I mean, 270 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: when I tried these cases, I'm gonna have to investigate, 271 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: you know, literally down to a single hair at a 272 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: crime scene. It was overwhelming. It was like huge tidal 273 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: waves of crime crashing me every day. This putting the 274 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: baby in a box, right, Sometimes it does. I mean 275 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: I cover Mexico, right, so sometimes it seems like every 276 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 1: crime scene is worse than the next. And sometimes they 277 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: don't even phase you at first. But then you know, 278 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: when you're reporting, you're just in the in the process 279 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: of collecting facts and confirming that, so that sort of 280 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: makes it automatic. And then later something, you know, something 281 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: stupid or small sort of sets me off to where yah. Yeah, 282 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: but in my circle, you know, they let you kind 283 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: of closer up to the crime scene, so I'm pretty 284 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: desensitized to violence. Not in this case they didn't. They 285 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: really did secure the crime scene. They had their best 286 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: investigators out there. But you know, often it's pretty visible 287 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: in Baja California and in Mexico. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, 288 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: we are talking about two little children that at first 289 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: we think are targets of parental kidnapping. When the surf 290 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: teacher dad takes off in a Mercedes Sprinter with them, 291 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: Mom finds out through find my iPhone at that he's 292 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: actually in Mexico from where they live in Santa Barbara. 293 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: And then the worst comes true. After learning about surveillance 294 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: video at the City Express Hotel in Rosarita showing the 295 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: dad checking in with the two children ages five and 296 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: ten months, leaving with and we're on three AM, and 297 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: then returning without them. Mom knows something is horribly wrong. 298 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: We were hearing about those surveillance video from our friend 299 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: Richard Allen at CBS eight in San Diego. But then 300 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: she finds out that an employee finds the children dead, 301 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: the babies and a wooden steak stained with a wooden steak. Guys, 302 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend Katie Johnson at cbsn LA. 303 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: Two young children were found dead in Mexico. Investigators in 304 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: Mexico say the three year old girl and one year 305 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: old boy were found Monday morning by a farm worker 306 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: at a ranch in Baja California. The girl had been 307 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: stabbed twelve times and the boys stabbed seventeen times. A 308 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: blood stained wooden steak was also found. Police in Santa 309 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: Barbara saying Matthew Taylor Coleman's wife reported the children missing 310 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: and said she was concerned for their well being. Coleman 311 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: could face aggravated murder charges in Mexico. Let me get 312 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: back to you, Wendy Fry joining us from the San 313 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: Diego Union Tribune. Tell me who, what were and why 314 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: about the discovery of these tiny children's bodies. So a 315 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: farm worker went out, and you heard a little bit 316 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: from him, a shall blood. The dogs were alerting to 317 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: the blood. He followed the dogs and found this horrific 318 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: scene that both of the babies were apparently in diapers, 319 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: and he's the way he described it. Later, he said 320 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: he thought it was like a satanic ritual or a 321 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: cult chilling. He described that to Baja California journalists right 322 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: after the discovery. So you've got to imagine, this is 323 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: just horrifying to see it's in an area that's very remote. 324 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: So that though Matthew said norther in northern Rosarto, this 325 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: discovery of the bodies was way south in Rosarito, like 326 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: probably more toward in Sonata really and very remote area 327 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: where there's only dirt roads and you know, not a 328 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: lot of people around. You know the fact of course 329 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: somebody is going to start screaming. Wendy Patrick that he 330 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: was insane, but he knew to hide the bodies and 331 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: to take off to leave the scene. And that is 332 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: pure evidence of flight. I mean, when I see a 333 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: cop bowling up behind me or a trooper on the interstate, 334 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: I don't take off at one hundred mph. I might 335 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: tap the brakes, but I don't try to run because 336 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: I don't care if he searches my car or am 337 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: I trying have at it. I'd just be mad if 338 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: you didn't. But he hid the bodies and he takes 339 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: off and hides, he does not respond to his wife's 340 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: text or emails, her phone, calls, nothing, because he knows 341 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: what he's doing is wrong. And when I hear satanic 342 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: cult suspected, I know right where they're going to go 343 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: with an insanity defense. Yeah, Nancy, an insanity defense would 344 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 1: be a lot easier if there were actually circumstantial evidence 345 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: to support that particular defense. But here you've got too 346 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: much conscious, cognitive and sophistication in the conduct. I mean, 347 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: this is not only somebody that goes through all the trouble, 348 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: not only to skip town, but skip the country, even 349 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: though it was a complicated set of circumstances to get there, 350 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: with all those pasos and checking into the motel. But 351 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: then you're right, when you look at the cause of 352 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: death and the behavior afterwards, you know, insanity. Do you 353 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: know right from wrong? That's really the general question that 354 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: we ask And in answering that question, you know, you 355 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: have to consider all the different logical and logical let's 356 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: put that in quotes, but all the different strategic and 357 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: intentional bits of conduct that this man went through between 358 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 1: leaving the house and the murder. Yeah, I'm the end 359 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: of things. Yeah, I'd like to Wendy's point to kind 360 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: of bolster her thesis here relative to the forensic evidence, 361 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about a steak, a wooden steak, Nancy, I 362 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: submit to you that he if this is a steak, 363 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: as they're calling it, I'm not talking about something you 364 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: go out and steak tomatoes without in your garden. If 365 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: this is a stake that he fashioned, I believe that 366 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: he would have probably fashioned this at his own home. 367 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: And this takes time, all right, It takes tools. It's 368 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: not like he just in a fury picked up a knife, 369 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: all right, that anybody might have laid around. No, no no, no, 370 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: no no. He took the time, perhaps to fashion a 371 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: steak and multiple steaks. Because this is the thing when 372 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: you're dealing with wood and this goes to the deeper 373 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: forensics here. But this is what happens the steak, the 374 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: wooden stake that you fashion, no matter how sharp it is, 375 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: after you have stabbed someone, these babies multiple multiple times, 376 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: what happens to that state It gets dull. You have 377 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: to go back and resharpen it. Unless I want to 378 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: point out when you say you have to go back 379 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: and resharpen it, keep in mind as far as the steak, 380 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: the wooden stake getting dull. The girl had been stabbed 381 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: twelve times, the boy seventeen times with a wooden steak. 382 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: And I want to also tell you this guy was 383 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: no idiot. He has a master's degree from you see 384 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: Santa Barbara. A master's degree that means a four year 385 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: degree plus a master's degree. I want you to take 386 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: a listen now to our cut six. This is Melissa 387 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: Aidan with NBC seven. This all started when Santa Barbara 388 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: police were first alerted of a possible parental kidnapping and 389 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: missing person's report, which Coleman's wife had filed over the 390 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: weekend using to find my iPhone app. Coleman was tracked 391 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: and apprehended at the Senna Cedro Port of entry, where 392 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: he then admitted to FBI agents chilling details as to 393 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: how and why he says he committed the murders, including 394 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: taking his kids across the border with his ten month 395 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: old in a box since he didn't have a car seat. 396 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: Coleman confessed to the killing of his ten month old 397 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: son and two year old daughter by shooting a spear 398 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: fishing gun into their chest while in Rosarito, Mexico, but 399 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: The most disturbing is how he described the slaying at 400 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: a ranch Intro Sardiito, telling federal agents he believed his 401 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: children were going to quote grow into monsters, so he 402 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: had to kill them, citing that he was enlightened by 403 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: QAnon and Illuminati conspiracy theories and that he was receiving 404 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: visions and signs revealing that his wife possessed serpent DNA 405 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: and had passed it on to his children. I told 406 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: you you were going to hear about serpent DNA, and 407 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: now you have Quanon Illuminati. You know, I've got a 408 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: post that he did list of this. Another picture that 409 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: came to me was of God reaching down into a 410 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: river bed, picking up a small stone, examining it, just 411 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: as David had done before slaying Goliath. God examined the stone, 412 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: confident it was just a perfect one for battle. Although 413 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: it was small, smooth and harmless, he knew it become 414 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: great when placed in the palm of a skilled hand. 415 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: My declaration over Roxy, his daughter, is that she has 416 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: been handpicked by God to slay the giants in the land. 417 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: Bible scripture plus Qannon and Illuminati conspiracies. What is he 418 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: talking about, Wendy fry. That is a very scary post 419 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: that you just read. I had not seen that one. 420 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: I saw one where he had his babyswn next to 421 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: the spear fishing gun, and I guess we should clarify too. 422 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,439 Speaker 1: So when the Rosary Tool police found this wooden steak, 423 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,400 Speaker 1: they initially believed that that was the murder weapon. In subsequently, 424 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: when he was arrested and he started talking to the FBI, 425 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: he told them that he actually had used a spear 426 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: fishing gun to kill the children and then later driven 427 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: to a different area and hid it hid that spear 428 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: fishing gun. So then Mexico police were able to later 429 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: go to the location where he hit it and recover 430 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: that murder weapon as well. So we don't know exactly 431 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: what he used this wooden stake for. We just know 432 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: that it had bloodstains and it was next to the 433 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: crime scene, and that he says it was the spear 434 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: fishing gun. There's another post where the baby right when 435 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: his two year old son was born, he had the 436 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: baby wrapped up in a little blanket and he had 437 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: it next laid out next to the spear fishing gun 438 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: and said, you know his son's name, and how he 439 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: couldn't wait to go spearfishing as well, So just pretty eerie. 440 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: Later figuring out what happened that he had his son 441 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: posted online as a baby with this murder weapon, which 442 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: presumably at the murder web, and saying that his friend 443 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: couldn't wait. It's pretty scary crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 444 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: we are talking about the parental kidnap and murder of 445 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: two little children by the surf dad killer who takes 446 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: away the children as his wife frantically tries to find them, 447 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: says they were growing in to quote monsters that had 448 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: gotten serpent DNA from mommy. Don't be fooled by all 449 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: of his bs the technical legal term about QAnon and Illuminati. 450 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: This guy knows exactly what he's doing. He just didn't 451 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: want children anymore. Take a listen to our cut five. 452 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: This is Richard Allen, CBS eight investigators in Mexico. See 453 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: that Coleman owns a serf school in Santa Barbara. According 454 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: to the school's website, Coleman has ties to the San 455 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 1: Diego area, earning his bachelor's degree at Point Loman Nazarene 456 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: University before attending UC Santa Barbara for his masters. According 457 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: to a statement from the FBI, Coleman remains in federal 458 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: custody while a joint investigation continues among federal investigators in 459 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: Los Angeles and San Diego. US Customs and Border Protection 460 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: and Mexican authorities and authorities on both sides of the 461 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: border are now working to return the bodies of the 462 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: two children here to California. In the meantime, Coleman could 463 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: face extradition to Mexico to face murder charges, and, if 464 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: ultimately convicted, could spend at least the next sixty years 465 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: in a Mexican prison. I think he knew the moment 466 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: across the border that he was going to kill the children, 467 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: knowing full well then Mexico does not have the death 468 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: penalty and will not extradige anybody back to the US 469 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: if the US is going to seek the death penalty. Guys, 470 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: why is it? It's so often when mothers or fathers 471 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: killed their children, they're immediately assumed to be insane. That's 472 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: not true. Do I have to say the name Josh Powell? 473 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Ben Tracy our cut thirteen at 474 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: CBS News. As Arson investigators continued to search through what's 475 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: left of the Powell home. The medical examiner now says 476 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: seven year old Charlie in five year old Braden Powell 477 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: suffered chop injuries to their head and necks. The sheriff 478 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: says their father, Josh Powell, then started the house on fire. 479 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: They found two five gallon cans of gas. One of 480 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 1: them was with the bodies, the other one we believe 481 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: was spread throughout the house. There was accelerants throughout the 482 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: whole entire house. Policy before he carried out the murder suicide, 483 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: Powell donated his son's toys to charity and left instructions 484 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: about his personal effects in multiple emails. He sent some 485 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: emails out to family and a pastor and some other people, 486 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: making sure that everybody knew that he was gone, that 487 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: he was one that did this. He had put a 488 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: plan in motion and he carried it out. Powell had 489 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: been under police scrutiny following the suspicious disappearance of his wife, 490 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: Susan Cox Powell, from their Utah home in December two 491 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Six days ago, he lost a battle 492 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: with Susan's parents for custody of his sons. It was 493 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: very clear rather than handover custody to his wife that 494 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: he kills Susan Powell's parents and undergo a psycho sexual 495 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: evaluation to determine whether he could even have visitation. He 496 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: killed his children. It was a very well planned just 497 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: like surf Dad, And do I even have to say 498 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: the name killer Dad? Chris Watts Remember Cec and Bella 499 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: and mom Shenan. Take a listen to our cup fifteen eight, 500 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: Elena Athens, ABC eleven. Chris Watts's voice started cracking when 501 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: he talked about his four year old daughter's final words. 502 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: Very day, the failed native says the murderous rampage where 503 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: he killed his entire family and unborn son started in 504 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: the master bedroom his pregnant wife Shennan, bringing up the 505 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: affair he was having. She threatened to take away the kids, 506 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: and he responded by physically silencing her. Kind of course, after, 507 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: Watt says, the eldest child, Bella, walked into the room, 508 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: which was wrong. Wat says the child was following him 509 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: around the house as he was dragging Shennan's body into 510 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: his pickup truck. He also placed Bella and three year 511 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: old Ceci in the vehicle. He drove them to his 512 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: job site and killed the girls. Chris Watts knew what 513 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: he was doing. It was very well planned. And then 514 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: I mean I could go on, but I don't want 515 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 1: to forget to mention and our cut nineteen Take a 516 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: listen to our friends at crime online dot com talking 517 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: about Ryan Lawrence, another killer dad. Ryan Lawrence tried to 518 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: elude police who were looking for the father and his 519 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: twenty one month old daughter. As temperatures dropped below freezing, 520 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: Lawrence entered a shop to stay warm. He tried to 521 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: disguise his looks by wearing a wig, bandana, hat, and 522 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: dark sunglasses, but he was recognized. When Lawrence was arrested. 523 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: He had camping gear in his backpack and a book 524 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: on how to elude being captured. After being questioned for hours, 525 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: he confessed and told detectives where they could find Maddox's body. 526 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: When she was pulled from the river. She had been 527 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: dead for more than two days. Ryan Lawrence's family said 528 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: he had been a doting father. Ryan himself said during 529 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: his confession that he had prayed to God to give 530 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: him a sign not to go through with what he 531 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: had planned, but he didn't. He said, he prayed God, 532 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: if I'm not meant to kill her, make her stumble. 533 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: Somehow God gets idea to so many murder scenarios. This 534 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: guy we're talking about today, surf Dad, he knew exactly 535 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: what he was doing, you know. Back to you, Wendy 536 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: for I, senior reporter, San Diego Union Tribune. What's this 537 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: business about Illuminati and QAnon? Yeah, I mean it's conspiracy 538 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: theories all over the internet. The serpent DNA might refer 539 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: to mess these message board conspiracy theories that the coronavirus 540 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: vaccine gives you the serpent DNA. So that's something that 541 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: people read. You know what I've had it about up 542 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: to hear with the whole COVID conspiracies. It's a scam. 543 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: It's not real. It's fake. I had COVID. My mother 544 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: gave it to me, my eighty nine year old mother, 545 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: and then I gave it to my own children and 546 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 1: my husband and Jackie. I mean, we all had COVID. 547 00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 1: It's real. And the other day some kid was telling me, well, 548 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: we haven't had COVID because it makes you sterile. It doesn't. 549 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: And now this serpent blood is that what this is 550 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: all about? Wendy, Well, the qum on conspiracy theory you know. 551 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: I mean people have probably heard about that. Final it's 552 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: this pro Trump conspiracy movement that place blow off. Don't 553 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: drag Trump or Biden, either one into this thing, Okay, 554 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: but qan on Illuminati, well, if you can, if you 555 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: can possibly not say Trump, it would really make me happy. 556 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,959 Speaker 1: Go ahead. So they believe that there's this secret pedophilia ring, right, 557 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: and that there's a conspiracy to cover it up among 558 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: all these elite uh you know, famous people, an elite politicians, 559 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,759 Speaker 1: and they worship Satan. Okay, so this is like just 560 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: a crazy conspiracy theory that people talk about all over. 561 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:01,439 Speaker 1: I guarantee either Biden or Trump we're worshiping Satan. The 562 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: other side would find out and then be on the 563 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,919 Speaker 1: front page of the New York Post. Okay, so they're 564 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: not a worshiping saying but where does that leave me 565 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: as it relates to Kalio and Roxy and Surple Blood, 566 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: the wouldn't stake Well, it's something you you know, you 567 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 1: want to dismiss because it's like crazy people talking on 568 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: the internet. Right. But the conspiracy movement has been the 569 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: subject of multiple reports by the FBI saying that these 570 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: followers are they could resort to violence. You know, there 571 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,760 Speaker 1: they are becoming violent. They're talking about taking their world 572 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: from the Internet into the real world. And you know, 573 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: so this is an example of okay, you know, maybe 574 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: we should start paying attention now. I get it, But 575 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: what about the illuminati, the so called illuminati, what does 576 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: that have to do with this. That's about the you know, 577 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: the the group of people who really know what's going on. 578 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: I think it was in a movie. You know. It 579 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 1: leeds back to the Renaissance way long ago, that there's 580 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: a group of people that really are the only people 581 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: who really know, you know, and they haven't shared with 582 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: us what's really going on. I can tell you what's 583 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: going on. This grade A number one, a whole another 584 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: technical legal term, has a one way ticket to dinner 585 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: with Satan, and he's going to make a little pit 586 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: stop for life behind bars, we wait as justice unfals. 587 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crumb story signing off Goodbye friend.