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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start

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Speaker 1: changing it with the beck Del Cast. Oh, Jamie, let

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Speaker 1: down your hair. Wow, Caitlin, my hair is so unhealthy. Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get about. Do you need to travel from

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Speaker 1: my shoulders to my scalp because that's about as far

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Speaker 1: as we're gonna get at this point in time. Oh great,

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Speaker 1: well then yeah, absolutely no problem. It will hurt a lot,

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Speaker 1: But like Rapunzel, I'm extremely self sacrificing for no reason,

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Speaker 1: So sure it hurt me. Oh do you actually we

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Speaker 1: just met? But should I like die for you? You know? Um,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. We both have pretty short hair,

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Speaker 1: not like short, we're both we're both medium right now.

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Speaker 1: Mine used to be much shorter. I used to be

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Speaker 1: the baldest woman in charge and then and now I

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Speaker 1: would say, we're we're about right now. It's a really

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Speaker 1: equal leadership. We're both kind of medium right now, which

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Speaker 1: is which I think is a fair and just way

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Speaker 1: to rule a podcast. I think so I love parody

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Speaker 1: equality I wish, I wish I could do. I get

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Speaker 1: nervous about having a shorter haircut because I have a

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Speaker 1: weird head shape and I have a lump on top

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Speaker 1: of my head, and I just don't like calling too

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Speaker 1: much attention to my head. Don't say those things about

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Speaker 1: my friend Jamie. Look, I've I've known her for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and she has a lump on her head

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Speaker 1: and I don't have the confidence to embrace it at

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Speaker 1: this point in my life. Someday I'm gonna be calling

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Speaker 1: attention to this damn lump, because that's where all the

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Speaker 1: good ships happening, right in that little golf ball on

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Speaker 1: top of my head. Oh boy, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante,

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Speaker 1: and this is our show where we examine movies through

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, using, of course, the Bechdel test

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Speaker 1: simply as a jumping off point. Oh for sure, that

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test. Let me tell you about it, because there's

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Speaker 1: some things about it, but you're not going to expect

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Speaker 1: Just kidding. If you listen to the show, um, you

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Speaker 1: know what it is. Uh, we use it as a

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Speaker 1: jumping off point for discussion. It is a media metric

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Speaker 1: originally created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace Test. Many versions of this test. Our version

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Speaker 1: is this, are there two characters with names of a

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Speaker 1: marginalized gender who talked to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man for two lines of dialogue? And very

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Speaker 1: often it doesn't happen very often, you know, in this

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Speaker 1: day and age and this economy, very often it does.

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Speaker 1: Either way, we're gonna talk about it for about two

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Speaker 1: seconds in one and a half hours, so don't worry

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Speaker 1: about it for now. Um, and today we are covering

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Speaker 1: on the main feed. I think this is what we've

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Speaker 1: been kind of making a concerted effort as of late

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Speaker 1: to uh knock out some of our top requests that

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Speaker 1: have literally been on our request list for at this

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Speaker 1: point more than half a decade, because look, enough is enough.

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Speaker 1: We understand there are certain films, Flims, pieces of cinema

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Speaker 1: that you pieces of cinema no, no, that go with it.

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Speaker 1: Commit Oh my god, I just in my head heard

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Speaker 1: a shattering glass sound and I'm just like you can

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Speaker 1: interpret that as my brain breaking, or you could interpret

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Speaker 1: it as me punging through the glass ceiling coming up

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Speaker 1: with a new incredible phrase. Pieces of cinema, I choose

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Speaker 1: the ladder. Wait, what happens at the end of What

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Speaker 1: does he say at the end of Saw? And then

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Speaker 1: he slams the door? He says, game over, slam. That's

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Speaker 1: what's happening in my head. Twenty four seven. Anytime I

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Speaker 1: encounter something that is confusing to me, and I just

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Speaker 1: take a nap and I'm kidding and I educate myself.

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Speaker 1: I learned, Okay, wow, okay, no no no, no, no

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Speaker 1: no no. Of course not of course, not doing really

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Speaker 1: weird lately, but that doesn't mean I'm not ready to

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Speaker 1: have some discorse about the movie Tangled with my friend Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: This movie has been on our list forever, Yes, it has.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners want this episode, and we decided, you know what,

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Speaker 1: it's time. It's time, and so that's what we're covering today.

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Speaker 1: Two thousand ten Disney animated film starring I didn't really

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Speaker 1: I knew it was Mandy Moore because I was a

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Speaker 1: childhood fan of Mandy Moore. I know I've talked about

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Speaker 1: this on the show before. I haven't had a Haunted

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Speaker 1: Mandy Moore Poster. I didn't know Zachary Levi was in

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Speaker 1: this movie, which is interesting to me because he's handsome.

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Speaker 1: That he is, and that's all I have to say.

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Speaker 1: And also Paul of Tompkins shout out to Pop Tompkins. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some fun voice acting in this movie. Zachary Levi

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Speaker 1: Mr Shazam himself. I do confuse them of Zachary Quinto

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Speaker 1: sometimes due to their both being named Zachary and being handsome.

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Speaker 1: But this is Zachary. This is Shazam Zachary, not star

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Speaker 1: Trek Zachary. Correct. And that is how we distinguish them.

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Speaker 1: That is, that is famously how we do that. There's

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Speaker 1: Sam and Their Spots podcast, and there there are two

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Speaker 1: kinds of Zachary's Shazam and spak Sprouse. There's three kinds

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Speaker 1: of Zachary's. Oh right, Oh, you don't know the Sprouse

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Speaker 1: is off the tip. No wait, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: got it wrong. It's Dylan. I was thinking of his

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Speaker 1: character zach from This Week Life of Zach and Cody.

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong, Glass shattering game over slam Well, Zachary Zachary. Listeners,

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Speaker 1: please let us know which of the two Zachary options

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Speaker 1: you are. Are you a Spock or Chosam. We're back

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Speaker 1: down to two. Sprouse is not an option because that

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Speaker 1: was a fictional character. I'm more spok, I think, Oh

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Speaker 1: I am definitely more of a Spok than a Chosam. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you didn't like Sham, as we talked about recently

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Speaker 1: on the Matreon. Um, I really broke some young man's

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Speaker 1: heart that day. Sorry sir. Anyway, Okay, Jamie, what is

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Speaker 1: your your relationship with Tangled? Oh my gosh, Um, I

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Speaker 1: did not see this movie when I came out. I

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Speaker 1: was in high school and I was like, I'm too

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Speaker 1: old for this. I don't need I don't need to

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Speaker 1: go see Tangled. You. So I did not see it

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Speaker 1: when it originally came out. I think I saw it

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Speaker 1: a couple of years later. My vague memory that is

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Speaker 1: completely useless and irrelevant about seeing this movie was I

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Speaker 1: saw it on DVD at a woman's house where I

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Speaker 1: was modeling T shirts for her question Mark. At some

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Speaker 1: point in college, I made money, um, in a lot

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Speaker 1: of shady ways. In college. I sold my blood and

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Speaker 1: I did that too. I mean, it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: time honored tradition in the grand uh in the grand

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Speaker 1: tradition of late capitalism. Of course, we both sold our blood.

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Speaker 1: And I also would do these like weird modeling gigs

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Speaker 1: where I'm pretty sure you're getting super ripped off that

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Speaker 1: you would wear like these ugly ass T shirts that

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Speaker 1: would say, like, you know, like corny early tens T

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Speaker 1: shirts that would be like, I'm trying to think, like

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Speaker 1: good morning is an oxy moron something like that. Kind

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Speaker 1: of I kind of like those better, I like Auntie

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Speaker 1: T shirts are fine with me, but this was like

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Speaker 1: sassy millennial like like bacon humor. It was bacon humor,

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Speaker 1: ultimately embarrassing. I hope they don't exist on the internet anymore.

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Speaker 1: But anyways, this random woman was doing my makeup at

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Speaker 1: her house and we watched Tangled, and then I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure I got my got my image exploited, I see,

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Speaker 1: But I liked it. And then I've and I've and

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Speaker 1: I've watched it a couple of times since. I think

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Speaker 1: it's like I've never thought very hard about it. But

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Speaker 1: I knew a little bit about the production around this movie,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited to talk about it because it feels

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Speaker 1: like a very particular moment in time for Princess Energy.

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Speaker 1: So sure, what's your history. I don't think I saw

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Speaker 1: this in theaters, but I do remember seeing it probably

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Speaker 1: within a year of it coming out. I was living

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Speaker 1: in Boston at the time. Brave Me too, and we oh,

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Speaker 1: no way, I was still at home. Oh jeez, well,

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Speaker 1: I was living in Boston. I was not, um, a

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Speaker 1: supermodel like you were. Yeah. Yeah, people were datat pictures

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Speaker 1: of me in ugly shirts on their point and shoots.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds to me like you were doing some

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Speaker 1: like runway high fashion runway modeling. It was really sexy

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Speaker 1: what I was doing, for sure. Um No, I was

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Speaker 1: just kind of chilling in Boston. Probably saw this with

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Speaker 1: my friend j T. I remember liking it, but not

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Speaker 1: enough to be like, oh, this is gonna be in

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Speaker 1: my rotation kind of thing. So I didn't watch it

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Speaker 1: again until I want to say twenty nineteen, maybe sometime

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Speaker 1: around then. I went to a friends giving celebration at

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Speaker 1: a friend of the pod Sammy Junio's house, Love It,

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Speaker 1: and we decided that we were going to watch a

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Speaker 1: bunch of movies and that those movies could only start

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Speaker 1: with the letter T. So we watched three T movies,

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Speaker 1: the first one of course, being Titanic, the second one

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Speaker 1: being Terminator too, and the third one being Tangled. So

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Speaker 1: I saw it again and I was like, oh, this movie,

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Speaker 1: this is cute, this is this is better than I remember.

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Speaker 1: I like this movie. But then again, I didn't see

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Speaker 1: it again until prepping for this episode, so rewatching it,

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Speaker 1: especially through like the Bechtel cast lens Um, was an

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Speaker 1: interesting journey. I feel like there's there's a lot to discuss. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this movie really is it. It's it's messing with you.

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Speaker 1: And I think when the first, like maybe one or

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Speaker 1: two times I saw it, it didn't really click for

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Speaker 1: me because it is for its faults, which we will

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Speaker 1: be discussing. I think it's a really fun movie. It's

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Speaker 1: like a good, engaging Disney movie that doesn't feel like

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Speaker 1: most other Disney movies. But not because it's you know,

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Speaker 1: amazing and progressive. It's just kind of different. It's actually

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Speaker 1: I like it. I like the chameleon Pascal. That was

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Speaker 1: the chameleon from the Minions test, wasn't it? It was

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Speaker 1: so listen. Famously, we all Jamie and I both took

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Speaker 1: a which Minion are you test? On your birthday of course,

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Speaker 1: I swear to god. I texted that damn quiz to

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Speaker 1: every person I've ever met and was like, I need

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Speaker 1: to know what many you are right now, because like,

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Speaker 1: is this friendship gonna sustain or not? Let's share our results?

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Speaker 1: Shall we mine? Sucks? Okay, yeah, Caitlin, now you're awesome.

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Speaker 1: Minions quiz results. I got Stewart, Is that right? I

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Speaker 1: don't even remember now Stewart Sieball the rock Star. I'm

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Speaker 1: classic me, you know, classic Caitlin. A bunch of people

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Speaker 1: in my life got Kevin's, which is like, okay, that's

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Speaker 1: if we're getting we're pulling a Kevin or a Stewart

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Speaker 1: result friend for life. Meanwhile, I pulled Grow. I got Grow.

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Speaker 1: I don't see it if if it makes you feel

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Speaker 1: any better, thank you so much. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: I got Grow, but it lowered my self esteem immeasurably.

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Speaker 1: I can't and on your birthday. It happened to me

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Speaker 1: on my birthday while we got the Minion's menu at

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Speaker 1: eye Hoop, which was gross disappointing. Oh my god. Okay,

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Speaker 1: last thing before we jump to the discourse the Minions.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I don't think I hop as one

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Speaker 1: of ours, our sponsors. Listeners are randomly generated, and so

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Speaker 1: we don't really know, but hopefully not. I hop because

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Speaker 1: the Minions menu, we were so looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: Caitlin brilliantly decided we should go on my birthday. And

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Speaker 1: then we get there and what is the menu. It's

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Speaker 1: just existing menu items with Minions characters. Yeah, like pancakes,

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Speaker 1: but with yellow and blue sprinkles. Literally, minion come. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: but like that was that was the consistency. It was gross.

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Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that minions come, yes, yellow and blue sprinkles? Okay? No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I was I was talking about the yellow gou. Oh,

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Speaker 1: the yellow okay, So there was banana flavored goo and

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Speaker 1: then sprinkles on top of that. Yeah, the goo was cold,

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Speaker 1: So I do think that minions come cold, yellow banana goo. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's a thing not to derail this conversation even further,

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Speaker 1: but similar to the does beetle juice come wet or

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Speaker 1: dry scabs? You're in the camp of minions, come that

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Speaker 1: cold banana flavored goo. I'm in the camp of minions,

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Speaker 1: come yellow and blue sprinkles. See that's a fun kind

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Speaker 1: of changing of the narrative because with beetle juice. As

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Speaker 1: we're going to be debating come October, as we do

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Speaker 1: every year. I always say he comes dry scabs sounds

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Speaker 1: like card shuffling. You always say he comes wet scabs

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Speaker 1: like a laser jet printer. And in this case, I'm

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Speaker 1: team wet and your team dry exactly. Wow. What we

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Speaker 1: know for sure is that Minions, uh, they do not

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Speaker 1: sexually reproduce, so all of their sex is strictly for pleasure,

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Speaker 1: and I celebrate that, which I think is um kind

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Speaker 1: of amazing and progressive Minions progressive text. Okay, transitioning into

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Speaker 1: our discussion around Tangled. So we both have uh light

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Speaker 1: you know, light appreciation for this movie prior to prior

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Speaker 1: to covering it. I don't think either of us have

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Speaker 1: a particularly strong attachment. But I was thinking, as I

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Speaker 1: was watching this movie for you, what like, as much

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Speaker 1: as I was enjoying the movie, I'm like, what is

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Speaker 1: this movie doing that Shrek had not already done? Yes,

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Speaker 1: a question, a legitimate question, and I will say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, my thing is like I do think that

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Speaker 1: Rapunzel has more certainly more screen time than Princess Fiona

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Speaker 1: certainly has a more distinct well, I don't even know there.

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Speaker 1: I think that Fiona might do more with less screen time,

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Speaker 1: and Shrek two thousand one is because she is. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: did I rewatch Trek before this? No? Should I have?

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Speaker 1: Of course this is in a comparative study. I just

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Speaker 1: there's obviously, because Shrek is a rip off of literally everything,

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Speaker 1: Princess Fiona kind of has a Rapunzel thing going on.

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Speaker 1: She has trapped in a tower against her will and

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Speaker 1: needs to be rescued. Right, I would argue that Rapunzel

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Speaker 1: has in this movie, at least in this version of

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Speaker 1: the narrative, she has more agency than Fiona. She there's

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Speaker 1: no far quad. There's no far quad, so there's not

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Speaker 1: like a rival man. Right. The humor of the movie

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Speaker 1: does not rely on punching down in the way that

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Speaker 1: Shrek humor often does. Excuse me, or just like kind

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Speaker 1: of outdated references the way that Shrek tends to do.

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Speaker 1: I truly did not mean to start this as a

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Speaker 1: genuine conversation, but finishing it was a joke. I know,

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Speaker 1: but I think still a legitimate question. Donkey better than

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Speaker 1: Maximus certainly, Oh yeah, for sure, But I don't like

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Speaker 1: Maximus is the Max the Horses arc. I don't like

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Speaker 1: Max the Horse's arc. I say we cut Max honestly

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Speaker 1: because it's just my My central issue with this movie

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Speaker 1: is that it's there's so much Flynn, There's so much Flynn,

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Speaker 1: and there's like, why does Flint, even Flynn's horse, have

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Speaker 1: an arc? Why not give that to Rapunzel's animal familiar,

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Speaker 1: who is mostly just very adorable, which I love. But

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Speaker 1: I'm like, we're giving the horse an arc, but we

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Speaker 1: still don't have any empathy for the villain. Like I

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Speaker 1: just I was like, too much, too much Flynn. As

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Speaker 1: much as I think zach rely By is handsome, he's

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Speaker 1: a cartoon in this. So what why am I watching this? No?

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Speaker 1: I agree my very scholarly opinion. Yeah, I say Max,

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Speaker 1: take him to the backyard and put him down. That's

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Speaker 1: what I say about man. Wow, you want to send

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Speaker 1: him to the glue factor? Your face? Yeah, we gotta

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Speaker 1: turn Max into glue. I think he's he's mucking up

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Speaker 1: the story. I don't care about Flynn's rivalry with his

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Speaker 1: own horse. Well it's not his horse. Sorry. I I

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Speaker 1: as much as I love love a good horse, we

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Speaker 1: just went to medieval times. I love a good horse.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I went to the Kentucky Derby this year.

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Speaker 1: I love a good horse. Yeah. Okay, well that's I

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Speaker 1: think that brings us into the recap, because let's talk

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Speaker 1: about it. Here's the story of Rapunzel, or of Tangled Tangled,

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Speaker 1: which is also a huge thing. Why is the name different?

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Speaker 1: We'll still talk about it, yes, okay, So we open

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Speaker 1: by learning about Rapunzel's backstory, which is told to us

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Speaker 1: by Flynn Rider. We will meet him for what reason later?

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Speaker 1: Good question, and we are in you could say, medieval times.

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Speaker 1: Shout out to your recent birthday celebration. Shout out to

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Speaker 1: the Red Knight. Oh my god, Red Night, Red Night,

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Speaker 1: Red Night King, the king of medieval times. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: went a park, a drop of sun fell to the earth,

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Speaker 1: and a magic golden flower grew from it that had

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Speaker 1: the ability to heal the sick and injured if you

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Speaker 1: sing a special song to the flower. Put a pin

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Speaker 1: in that. There is a kingdom with a king and

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Speaker 1: a queen, and the queen is gregnant, and she is

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Speaker 1: about to have a greg but she gets really sick.

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Speaker 1: So the king's people, like the kingsman, reciput and go

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Speaker 1: out and search. This movie was missing a respute. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: where was Rescputen? Where was Resputen entangled? There, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: start asking truly nonsense questions, start pivoting into extremely bad

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Speaker 1: faith analysis and being like, so, um, I thought this

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Speaker 1: movie was feminist, but then where was Resputen? Another question? Um? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So the kingsmen go out to look for this golden

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Speaker 1: flower to heal the queen. But there's this woman, mother Goffel,

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Speaker 1: who had already found the flower and has been hoarding

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Speaker 1: its power for centuries to keep herself young this whole time.

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Speaker 1: But the kingsman find the flower and take it to

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Speaker 1: the queen to heal her. She gives birth to a

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Speaker 1: little girl with golden hair, and this, of course is Rapunzel,

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Speaker 1: and to celebrate the birth of their daughter, the King

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Speaker 1: and Queen release a floating lantern into the sky. Adorable

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Speaker 1: love it cute, But then mother Gothel shows up. Rapunzel's

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Speaker 1: hair has the same magical properties as the flower, and

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Speaker 1: Gothel thinks she can cut some of the hair off

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Speaker 1: and use it to keep her young, but she discovers

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Speaker 1: that cutting this lock of Rapunzel's hair takes away its

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Speaker 1: magical properties and to her earns that strand of hair

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Speaker 1: that's still attached to her. Punzel's head renders it unmagical

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Speaker 1: and brown, gross brown hair bad you and me found

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Speaker 1: dead in a ditch like unbelievable. So basically, the hair

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Speaker 1: needs to be attached to Rapunzel's head in order for

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Speaker 1: it to retain its magical properties. So Gothel kidnaps Rapunzel

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Speaker 1: so that she can always have access to her hair.

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Speaker 1: Gothel keeps Rapunzel locked away in this tower hidden in

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Speaker 1: the forest, and raises Rapunzel as her own daughter, so

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Speaker 1: Rapunzel thinks that Gothel is her mother. Time passes, we

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Speaker 1: see Gozel singing this special song which activates the hair

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Speaker 1: and keeps her young. Um. We also learned that each year,

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Speaker 1: on Rapunzel's birthday at the castle far off in the distance,

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Speaker 1: the King and Queen release hundreds of lanterns into the sky,

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Speaker 1: hope being that their lost daughter will someday return. This

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Speaker 1: is something that Rapunzel always like watches and sees and

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Speaker 1: loves this event of the lanterns floating in the sky. Um. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then we cut two Rapunzel as a teenager. She's

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Speaker 1: still living in the tower. Her hair is like a

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Speaker 1: hundred feet long since it can't be cut because it'll

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Speaker 1: lose its powers. And I've watched, um, I've watched shorts

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Speaker 1: on how I mean, I know that, like it's extremely

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Speaker 1: extremely hard to animate hair, And after under fully understanding

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Speaker 1: that process and working in animation, I was like, wow, this.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if if we have UM like legit animators

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Speaker 1: listening to the show, does watching these things with the

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Speaker 1: hair give you a panic attack? Because it stresses me

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Speaker 1: out and I don't even understand computer animation, UM, but

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Speaker 1: you're like wow, Wow. This was like the most expensive

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Speaker 1: UM Disney movie produced to date, and partially because of

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Speaker 1: development stuff that we'll talk about right. Also because like

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Speaker 1: the budget, like how many people you need to have

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Speaker 1: on hair duty alone is just like wild. Anyways, the

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Speaker 1: budget shout out to hair animators. The budget for this

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Speaker 1: was I think two and sixty million dollars, making it

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Speaker 1: one of the highest budget movies ever and the highest

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Speaker 1: budget animated movie of all time. I think. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that record has been broken since then, but

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Speaker 1: it but it's just by other Disney movies, So I

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Speaker 1: don't think we need to give them more airtime. But

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Speaker 1: one of them was Zootopia, the movie I disliked the most. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we learned about Rapunzel's life, which is pretty uneventful. Basically,

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Speaker 1: she just spends all day trying to keep herself occupied.

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Speaker 1: So she cleans, she cooks, she reads, she paints, she

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Speaker 1: plays guitar, she puts together puzzles, she plays chess. She

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Speaker 1: does all these things to occupy her time. And her

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Speaker 1: only friend is a chameleon named Pascal. She gets regular

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Speaker 1: visits from Gothel, but Gothel doesn't seem to live in

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Speaker 1: the tower with her, so Rapunzel is pretty isolated. The

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Speaker 1: point basically being that she wants much more than this

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Speaker 1: provincial life all the way down to like the I

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Speaker 1: feel like that had to be a Beauty in the

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Speaker 1: Beast reference for when she gets out of the tower

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Speaker 1: and there's that little what do you call those goddamn

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Speaker 1: poof plants um with the seedlings that fly into where

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Speaker 1: those are like dandelions, like dandelion, it's something about dandelions.

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Speaker 1: We're botanists, so we should not this um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that do you remember that? That's like a very specific

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Speaker 1: image and Beauty and the Beast I remember, And then

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Speaker 1: Rapunzel has the same image, but this time it's computers,

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Speaker 1: and she's in the middle of saying about how she

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Speaker 1: wants much more than this whatever tower life based life

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Speaker 1: hashtag tower life. So okay. So Rapunzela has decided to

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Speaker 1: ask Goszel if she can go outside and see the

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Speaker 1: floating lights, especially because tomorrow is Rapunzel's eighteenth birthday. And

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Speaker 1: she feels that these lights, which we know are the

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Speaker 1: lanterns that the castle releases, she feels that they're kind

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Speaker 1: of meant for her somehow, that she has some connection

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Speaker 1: to them. And Gothel is like, no way, I know

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Speaker 1: it's best for you. It's not safe out there. You

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Speaker 1: can't handle yourself out there. You're not strong enough to

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Speaker 1: go into this dangerous world. Yes, she's doing quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of nagging, poor Rapunzel. There's a lot to discuss

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Speaker 1: with this uh mother dog relationship, for sure, Yes, and

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Speaker 1: also with just like Gothel in general, because for all

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Speaker 1: of this movie seems to think it's subverting some of

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Speaker 1: which it actually is, a lot of which it isn't.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Gothel is like glaring, like we can

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Speaker 1: have sympathy for everyone, but uh, woman over Ford, right, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So meanwhile, Flynn writer the narrator guy who is a bandit,

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Speaker 1: steals a crown from the castle and is fleeing the

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Speaker 1: castle guards along with his two kind of like the

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Speaker 1: good buddies, the Stabbington brothers. Great name. Gotta hand it

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Speaker 1: to him. It sounds a lot like Paddington. Also, that's

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Speaker 1: his evil cousins. There's Paddington's and then there's Stabbington's. Um.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that that will be an element

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Speaker 1: of Paddington theory? God, that sounds like honestly, uh, robot

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Speaker 1: chicken pitch that would have been rejected from me, from you, yes, specifically, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's free for someone. So they're escaping. There's this horse

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Speaker 1: named Maximus, one of like the castle horses. Uh. He's

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Speaker 1: chasing Flynn, and Flynn escapes and but sabotages the Stabbington

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Speaker 1: brothers along the way. And then Flynn stumbles upon Rapunzel's tower.

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Speaker 1: He climbs it and goes into her room, and Rapunzel,

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Speaker 1: startled by this intruder, bonks him on the head with

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Speaker 1: a frying pan. There's a whole chat to have about that.

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Speaker 1: Classic a subversive bonk. Wow, hilarious. Um I actually have some,

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Speaker 1: you know, some unexpected thoughts about this. Perhaps, well, I

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Speaker 1: think I'm excited to have this discussion because this was

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Speaker 1: frying pan that didn't super broth. Same will unpack. But

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Speaker 1: but on first glance, you're just like, well, there it

418
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: is there, it is right. Yeah, there's no weapons in there.

419
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: So Rapunzel bonks him on the head and stuffs him

420
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: in her closet, and then she's like, wow, wait a minute,

421
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: I am strong enough to handle myself. So she lets

422
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: Flynn back out. She ties him up with her hair,

423
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: she hides his satchel with the crown that he stole,

424
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: and she's like, I will give you your satchel back

425
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: if you take me to see the lanterns tomorrow night.

426
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: He reluctantly agrees, and then she finally leaves her tower

427
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: for the first time, goes outside. She loves the freedom,

428
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: but she's also racked with guilt for disobeying her mother,

429
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: which I really thought was different and I liked that. Yeah, Oh,

430
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: they showed that emotional struggle for sure. Meanwhile, Flynn is

431
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: trying to get out of taking Rapunzel to see the

432
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: lanterns because he's a wanted man and he can't just go,

433
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: you know, gallivanting around, so he takes her to this

434
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: kind of like rough and tumble tavern with a lot

435
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: of scary ruffians. The twist is, but the twist is

436
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: they're nice. They're nice, especially after Rapunzel inspires them to

437
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: sing about their hopes and dreams. Kind of cute that

438
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: song that they say where they're like, I actually have dreams. Okay,

439
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: can you guess? Can you guess what other Disney song

440
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: that heavily reminded me of? Um? Is it the one

441
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: in Beauty and the Beast with Gaston singing in the tavern? No,

442
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: it is stick to the status quo from High School Musical,

443
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: because about like, I seem like one thing, but here's

444
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: my secret dream. I want to break dance. I like baking.

445
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: I'm a skateboarder, but I play the jella Anyways, that

446
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: I was just like, Wow, it's better. It's better the

447
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 1: high school musical song. I liked this song, but I

448
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: was like, kind of a flagrant rip off. Stick to

449
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: see what you're saying, same premise, pre incredible, yep, Okay,

450
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: thank you so much. That's why they pay me the

451
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: medium book inside like that, So they're singing about their

452
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: their dreams, and Gosfel is following them, as are the

453
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: castle guards, as are the Stabbington brothers. So Rapunzel and

454
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: Flynn have to run off and um. During this chase,

455
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: Rapunzel and Flynn get trapped in a mind shaft or something.

456
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: It's pitch black, it's filling with water. But then Rapunzel

457
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: remembers that her hair is magic and it glows when

458
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: you sing that special song, so she does that to

459
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: kind of light the way and allow them to escape.

460
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: She then uses her hair to heal a cut on

461
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: Flynn's hand, and he's like, oh my gosh, wow. And

462
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: then they're vibing and they're like flirting, and then he

463
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: goes off to get some firewood, much like Shrek goes

464
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: off to get some firewood after he and Fiona. How

465
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: men really? Do men who help you out of the tower?

466
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: Do you be getting firewood? Don't they? It is a

467
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: trope at this point. Yeah, So he's off and it's

468
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 1: just Rapunzel and then Gothel shows up and she's like

469
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: what the hell Rapunzel, and Rapunzel is like, Flynn likes me,

470
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: and I am enjoying this freedom and Gothel is like,

471
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: no way, he's just sticking around because he wants that

472
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: crown that you have and he'll leave you as soon

473
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: as he gets it, and she gives the crown back

474
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: to Rapunzel, and Gothel disappears with a with like a play.

475
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: You can you can tell she's like plotting something. So

476
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: the next morning we're Punzel and Flynn set off for

477
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: the castle and they befriend maximum missed the horse along

478
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: the way. They get to the castle, Rapunzel gets her

479
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: hair braided and then she livens up the place with

480
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: dance and music and drawings and everywhere that Rapunzel goes,

481
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: she just kind of inspires the best in people. She's

482
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: not like other girls. Caitlin, she's nice, question Mark, she's nice.

483
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 1: She and Flynn also seemed to be vibing more. And

484
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: then he takes her out on a little boat and

485
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: across the way the King and Queen release hundreds of lanterns.

486
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: It's very beautiful and romantic, and Rapunzel and Flynn almost kiss,

487
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: but oh no, the Stabbington brothers show up and they

488
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: want Rapunzel because Goffel had told them that she and

489
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: her hair are very valuable. So they try to kidnap

490
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: her um, but Goffel shows up and knocks them out.

491
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: While this is happening, it seems like Flynn has taken

492
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: off with the crown and like betrayed Rapunzel much while

493
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: not much like not to keep comparing this to Shrek,

494
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: but it's like that second act point during Shrek where

495
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: Shrek thinks that Fiona has is like saying that he's

496
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: not good enough for her, when really she's discussing her

497
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: own insecurities. So a misunderstanding is pulling the couple apart. True, yes,

498
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: Then Goffel takes Rapunzel back to her tower, where after

499
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: examining all the art that Rapunzel has made over the years,

500
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: she realizes a pattern the shape of the sun always appears,

501
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: which is like the symbol of the castle and kingdom,

502
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: and she realizes that she is the daughter of the

503
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: king and Queen. So she confronts Goffel now knowing that

504
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: she was kidnapped and the Gothel has been using Rapunzel's

505
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: magic hair all of these years, and they have an altercation. Meanwhile,

506
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: Flynn is about to be hanged for his like thievery,

507
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: but all the guys from the Tavern show up and

508
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: save him. So he gets on Max the horse and

509
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: races two Rapunzel's tower. But oh no, Gosseel stabs Flynn

510
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: when he shows up, which is I honestly I kind

511
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: of forgot that that happened. And I was like, whoa,

512
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like you don't usually get that.

513
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: I didn't hate it, like I feel like I'm always

514
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: complaining about how Disney villains aren't allowed to be like

515
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: absolutely evil anymore. Um, and I was like, oh, she

516
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: literally stab Zachary Levi. That falls under the column of evil. Yeah,

517
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: it's it's more overt violence than we've seen in Disney

518
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: movies in a long time. Like usually there isn't like

519
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: if violence does happen, it's only very suggested, or it

520
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: happens off screen or someone falls off a cliff. But

521
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: I honestly did not. I mean, if I was a kid,

522
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: I probably would have been pretty scared, but like make

523
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: kids afraid again. Well the so, okay, what happens after

524
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: this is Rapunzel strikes a deal with Gothel. If she

525
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: lets Rapunzel, he'll Flynn with her hair. She will go

526
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: willingly with Gothel, but if not, she'll basically fight every

527
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 1: waking moment of her life to try to get away

528
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: from Gothel. So she goes to He'll Flynn, but he

529
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 1: chops off all of Rapunzel's hair, making her the baldest

530
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: woman in charge, so that Gothel will die and Rapunzel

531
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: will be free of her. But like Gothel's death here

532
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: is very scary for children's movie because like the horror

533
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: imagery of it all, Like if I was a kid

534
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: and I saw that they well they body horror the

535
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: ship out of this character for a moment one But

536
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 1: you're I totally agree where the ending is like brutal.

537
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: The only thing that they you know, I guess relieve

538
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: you of is you don't have to see her girl

539
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: splat because she turns into dust before she hits the ground.

540
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: I kind of love and someone turns to dust. But

541
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: it is also a very very witch canon to turn

542
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: evil witch canon to turn to dust, because that's what

543
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: happens to the Witch from the Wizard of Oz. She

544
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: just doesn't oh yeah, she just kind of melts and disappears.

545
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean we have there's

546
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: a whole discussion around Gotholpe, but that is that is

547
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: a pretty even by like Disney standards, twenty years before

548
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: this movie came out. That's a pretty scary ending totally.

549
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: And then the Rapunzel's whole being ready to die for

550
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that too, because I was just like,

551
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: I felt like that was We're so close to like

552
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: a really cool, exciting, you know, princess aversion. And then

553
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: her agency is like taken from her at the very

554
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: end of the movie, right, especially because like he cuts

555
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: off her hair rather than like her cutting off her

556
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: own hair. It would have been much better this unrelated

557
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: but like he cuts her hair off into a perfect

558
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: picks he cut Um, incredible, well done, but whatever, that's um,

559
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: that's fun movie nonsense, but not fun movie nonsense. Was Yeah,

560
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: I felt like her And we'll talk about this in

561
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: more detail in a second, but like her agency was

562
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: completely like ripped from her at the peak of the movies,

563
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: at the action where she was like, you know, you

564
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: have to be a self sacrificing person to be considered

565
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: you know, legitimate, yeah woman, and um, and then he

566
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: made the decision that ends up saving everybody. Great who

567
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: and then and then we get closure with his fucking horse.

568
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I'm anti the horse. Get the horse out

569
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: of there. Yeah, I see your point. Yeah, that was

570
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: very frustrating, and we'll we'll unpack that shortly. But basically,

571
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 1: the movie ends with Rapunzel and Flynn professing their love

572
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: for each other. As Flynn dies and desperate to save him,

573
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 1: she sings the song to you know heal his wound,

574
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem like it's going to work because

575
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: her hair has been chopped off and it's not magical anymore.

576
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: But then her tear drop falls on his face a

577
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: k A a drop of sunshine perhaps, and her magic

578
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: works and he comes back to life, and then they kiss,

579
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: and then they go to the castle and she's like, hi,

580
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: Mom and dad, it's me your daughter, but I have

581
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: brown hair now, and they're like, why is there? Okay

582
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: another like does another too much Flynn moment? Get Flynn

583
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: out of that scene. I don't need Flynn in that scene.

584
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: This is like And also their reunion is wordless question

585
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 1: mark between her and her parents. Yeah, why no words?

586
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: And why is Flynn there? Great questions? Yes, So Rapunzel

587
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: returns to the Kingdom. The Kingdom celebrates Rapunzel and Flynn

588
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: get married and they live happily ever after. So that's

589
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: the story. Let's take a quick break and come back

590
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: to discuss. And we're back. We're back, and I've let

591
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: down my hair. I haven't. It's a mess today. Um,

592
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: where do we want to start? I mean, I should

593
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: we just start with Rapunzel herself. Yeah, I would like

594
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,839
Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, her as a Disney princess

595
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: and the way that as we've hinted at, like there

596
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,879
Speaker 1: are some subversions to the kind of classic Disney fairytale princess.

597
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: There are tropes that get you know, reinforced in this movie.

598
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot to unpack. Um, I would say overall,

599
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: and I guess it depends on kind of what era

600
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: of Disney princess movie you compare this too. She falls

601
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: into the very classic Like you know, she's kind of

602
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: stuck in the beginning. She wants much more than this

603
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: provincial life. Um, she's not motivated by love or romance

604
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: the way that like snow White is, She's more like

605
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: she's Yeah, she's definitely doing laps around the early Disney princess.

606
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: It's more it's closer to like Belle from Beauty and

607
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: the Beast where she longs for kind of just to

608
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: see what's out there in the world. She's a prisoner

609
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: for a large portion of the movie. Yes, like Bell.

610
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: So so there's that um she I would say, is

611
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: more active and has more agency than most Disney fairy

612
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: tale princesses of older generations up into a point at

613
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: least for a good amount of the movie. And then

614
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: there's a point where there's that comes to a screeching

615
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: halt in a way that I was like, really kind

616
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: of bummed out by. Yeah, I like the I I

617
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 1: really I like Rapunzela. I can see I it's like

618
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:01,959
Speaker 1: this sort of thing where like I can see where

619
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: they were trying to go with her and also like

620
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: the shut off of where they were willing, like how

621
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: far they were willing to go. Because I do think

622
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: that there are Disney princesses that came and whatever. Here

623
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 1: we are comparing a group of fictional women to each other,

624
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: but they are all built from the same mold, like canonically,

625
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: um and I do think that there are princesses that

626
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: came before Rapunzel that like, were more active and progressive

627
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: than Rapunzel. Mulan. I think as a person who really

628
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: comes to mind there of like Rapunzel's not topping uh

629
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: Mulan in terms of her agency and activeness and sort

630
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: of fullness of story. But I do think that she is,

631
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: especially because this is like a Disney fairy tale movie.

632
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: She seems to be, you know, the most active of

633
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: the European fairy tale princesses, of which there are a

634
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: stunning amount. I like that she is involved in a

635
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: bunch of action sequences. I like that she at least

636
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of them kind of come

637
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: up hollow and kind of um ring a little. I'm

638
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: banning the word girl boss from my vocabulary because I

639
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: think it's just like misused at this point, and like

640
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: sometimes people say girl boss when they say woman with agency,

641
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: and it's kind of like I think it's sometimes using

642
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: a misogynist way at this point, and it bothers me.

643
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, it's like, I don't know,

644
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: the Rapunzel stands up to her mom several times, but

645
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: it usually ends up being story wise, kind of a

646
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: hollow gesture because ultimately what severs her tie from her

647
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 1: mom something Flynn does whatever. But but I don't I

648
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: don't know they were definitely pros and constant. I like

649
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: her a lot. I like her a lot. I like

650
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 1: how she's written. I love Manny Moore's performance. I like

651
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: that she like us as all of the skills that

652
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: she has, and like participates in the action usually in

653
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: about equal measure. She rescues Flynn a number of times.

654
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: He also rescues her. But it does feel like, I mean,

655
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,720
Speaker 1: even though whatever, we've already said this and will continue

656
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: to discuss, Like, I think Flynn has an outsized presence

657
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: in this movie in a way that is not you know,

658
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: I mean, there's Disney executives that say that that was

659
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: very on purpose, but given that that is the choice

660
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: they made. I like that they are usually fighting and

661
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: rescuing each other in equal measure. Like, it's not like

662
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: and that she you know, she's using her hair. She's

663
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: like tarzanning around on her fucking hair. It's really cool.

664
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: She does fight and defend herself. She chooses to deceive

665
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: her mom, she chooses to you know, take Flynn as

666
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: her hostage, and I like it. I like her. Yeah,

667
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: there's also like she's cool. Not only is she able

668
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: to engage in like combat, she also um like chooses

669
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: non violence sometimes where like that scene in the tavern,

670
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: which I think is also an interesting subversion of like

671
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: but you would expect of like, oh, all these like

672
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: toxic men end up being like I want to be

673
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: a concert pianist, I want to be a mom. You know,

674
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: like all these artistic pursuits doesn't mean that you can't

675
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: also be toxic if you're a male artist. But I

676
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: just the point is, you know, she inspires, like she

677
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: inspires people to follow their dreams, and she inspires the

678
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: best in people. Um, but I agree, Yeah, there there

679
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: is an outside presence of the male lead in the movie,

680
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: which which men in general and in general, like there's

681
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: so many ancillary men in this movie. I feel that

682
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: because I like this movie and I'm coming down harder

683
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: on it than I'm expecting to I was expecting to.

684
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: But I do I mean Rapunza, Yeah, I totally agree

685
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: with you. Where it's like she has moments of action

686
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: and combat and then she also has moments where she

687
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: chooses non violence and it pays off in a big way.

688
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: I think that that's good. I feel like often empathy

689
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: and listening to people is regarded as a very like

690
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: traditionally feminine trait, and sometimes that's presented as bad as

691
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: a weakness. Yeah, when it's like when it's the reality

692
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: is like everyone should everyone has the capacity for that,

693
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: and everyone, regardless of gender right can do everything right right,

694
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: And it's like everyone is capable of empathy. So that

695
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: I like that she chooses moments and then then the

696
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: same as much as I can't stand the horse, she

697
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: negotiates with the horse and one moment where and and

698
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: and it does feel like that's intentionally done because there

699
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: are moments where Flynn is choosing combat again and again,

700
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: and then it's Rapunzel's talking and listening to people that

701
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: actually resolves the problem in the tavern and with the horse,

702
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: because Flynn is also fighting his horse, because why is

703
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: this horse here? Um? And that like on Flynn's and

704
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: his you know, penchant for swashbuckling is you know, masking

705
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: a lot of his own insecurities, which we learn about,

706
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: We learned his back story. We learned that he has

707
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: like kind of put on this fake persona as a

708
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: defense mechanism. More or less, he wants, he wanted much

709
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: more than that orphanage life. Um. So, so you know,

710
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: I like, I liked I liked that. I like Rapunzel

711
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: is like a more I feel like she had. She

712
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: has traits that your traditional Disney princess has, which is

713
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: like extreme loyalty, a lot of empathyness. Empathy inspires people

714
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: to follow her your dreams, like you're saying. But also

715
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: the those are traits that are very important to who

716
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: she is. But it's not like all she's capable. She

717
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: gets angry, she understands, at least when her mother's disrespecting her.

718
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: She doesn't always even to understand Flinn's doing it. But um,

719
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: Rapunzel is. I like her. I'm pro I just think

720
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 1: that there are certain things that um undercut what a

721
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: cool character they set up there, such as and we

722
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: hinted at this also, but the big climactic moment at

723
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: the end is her ending up with a man and

724
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: like being in a Head of Row romance. When the

725
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: narrative that had been set up for her was I

726
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: want to escape this tower. I want to like go

727
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: and see the lanterns, which could be kind of code

728
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: at for just like I want to see the world

729
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: and explore and discover who I am, she wants to

730
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: be where the people are. Disney prince basic ship. She

731
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: wants to or and slash Quasimodo like Wealthy Mottel also

732
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: Tower canon, get me out of this tower cannon evil

733
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: person in the Tower canon. So so she has these

734
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: kind of dreams too. But then also like you could

735
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: argue that like her wanting to go out and and

736
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: and you know, discover herself, discover the world her, you know,

737
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: find her place in the world. Part of a lot

738
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 1: of people's journey of self discovery involves figuring out what

739
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: type of relationships you want to be in, and some

740
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: of those relationships might be romantic, so you know that

741
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 1: is a thing for a lot of people. Um, but

742
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: it just it still feels like here we are with

743
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: another like Disney Fairytale Princess story, and of course she

744
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: has to end up in a hetero romance at the end,

745
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: right And it's like they I think it's interesting and

746
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: very like of the time, how they choose to skirt

747
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: the fact that that's absolutely what they're doing. I thought

748
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: it was like I I Caitlin I l o lt

749
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: when they do this fucking like gymnastics thing at the

750
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: end where they're like, well we didn't get married right

751
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: away and it's like all done in voiceover, was like,

752
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,479
Speaker 1: we didn't get married right away, but a couple of years,

753
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: and we dated for a couple of years, and then

754
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: of course we got married. And then you still see

755
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 1: the wedding like you do at the end of any

756
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,959
Speaker 1: fucking Disney movie. But they they do this really quick,

757
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: like oh, no, we get it. That's like that's weird,

758
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, in whatever royalty, that's not actually

759
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: really that weird. But they're like, but no, we dated,

760
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: we're regular, We're just like you, and then we and

761
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: then the movie ends exactly like you know it's going

762
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: to end. I just like that was like I think

763
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: one of the many like two like we're trying to

764
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: do something, but actually we are not courageous enough to

765
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: actually stick the landing on doing it, which is a

766
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: lot of things in this movie. I thought that, like, well, actually,

767
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: before we get to Flynn, let's talk frying pan. Is

768
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: it frying pan time? Let's let's pivoting to frying pans.

769
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,959
Speaker 1: Let's take a let's take a break, and then we'll

770
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: get to frying pan. So be right back and we

771
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: are back. We're back, all right, frying pan time for

772
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: frying pan discourse. So I mean, let's kind of I

773
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: think that this is kind of I have a feeling

774
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: we're on the same track with this, and I think

775
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: it's an interesting look. We've been doing the show for

776
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: six years now, and I think that there has been

777
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: a lot of um development in ways to have feminist

778
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: and intersectional feminist discourse during that time. Certainly, I think

779
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: perhaps we would have had a more kind of uh,

780
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: I guess there's a very two intends way to criticize

781
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: some movies that maybe don't hold up as well now,

782
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: and I think frying pan discourse um is an area

783
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: where there's been a little bit of shifting. So that mind,

784
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: let's let's talk frying pan. So Rapunzel for people who

785
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: haven't seen Tangled but are still listening, and we celebrate

786
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: that Rapunzel her like go to weapon is frying frying pan,

787
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: which we have said on this show before, and I

788
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 1: think in some cases it genuinely is true. Can be

789
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: a sort of sexist trope. We've seen it many times,

790
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: and I think in a lot of older movies it

791
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: is kind of a sexist trope where it's just like, well,

792
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: what would a woman fight with body, very domestic object.

793
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: That's the basis of frying pan discourse. We we have

794
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: talked about this trope a lot on the cast where

795
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: what we tend to see in movies is combat scenes.

796
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: If women are allowed to participate in the action, the

797
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: story is written so that the women are made to

798
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 1: fight with household objects, and frying pan comes up again

799
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: and again. We saw this in like Raiders of the

800
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: Lost Art we see it and who framed Roger Rabbit

801
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: other examples that I can't remember off the top of

802
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: my head. I think a lot of horror movies this happens. Yeah,

803
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of kitchen knife staff the

804
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: original Halloween that makes more sense, but um, there's also

805
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: Disney cartoons this has taken place in like sure plenty

806
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: of times. I don't think by a primary character, but

807
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 1: I do specifically remember like a villager from Beauty and

808
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: the Beast fighting with a frying pan like this has

809
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: happened in animation, live action for for generations generations. So

810
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: this is what women are expected to fight with, whereas

811
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: men in the same combat scenes in the same movie

812
00:51:56,239 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: are equipped with weapons, actual weapons that they fight with.

813
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 1: The implication often being well women can't Slash don't know

814
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: how Slash, don't have the skills, Slash could never develop

815
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: the skills to fight with weapons. But they do know

816
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: their way around frying pans and other household objects, ones

817
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: that are especially gendered if you consider, like, oh, well,

818
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: women have historically been expected to cook and clean, so

819
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: they know how to use like frying pans and brooms,

820
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 1: and those are their weapons now. So, like you said,

821
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: a lot of movies in those scenes do have those

822
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 1: sexist implications. But as with pretty much everything, context is

823
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:47,720
Speaker 1: very important. And when you consider Rapunzel's context, where by

824
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, whereby whereby whereby? Gothel controls everything that Rapunzel

825
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: has access to, and this is a whole separate conversation,

826
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 1: and she certainly wouldn't be giving Rapunzel access to weapons

827
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: of any kind. Exactly. The only thing that Rapunzel does

828
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: have access to our household items. And if you have

829
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: an intruder, a cast iron skillet is a pretty decent weapon.

830
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: It's heavy, it'll do damage, it's got to handle, so

831
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: it's easy to wield, etcetera. I was kind of saying,

832
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: I was thinking of like, just because the opening song

833
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: is like puns getting more and more bored of the

834
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: mostly domestic, e kind of tasks and activities that are

835
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: made available to her. Um which again, like that context

836
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: is important. It's not like she has a choice of

837
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: everything to do in the world and she's choosing sewing, cooking, cleaning,

838
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: like those are the only things she's given to do.

839
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: Her life is very thoroughly controlled. So totally the only

840
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: other thing I was like, m get those knitting needles

841
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: in in the mix, but it's like the cats are

842
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 1: in skillet I I totally agree, is like the most

843
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: easily yield the ball weapon And why does she use it?

844
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: She uses it quite a bit, to the point where

845
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: it becomes a motif throughout the movie, where so Flynn

846
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: uses it himself as a weapon, which I thought was cool.

847
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 1: So what happens basically that the trajectory of the frying

848
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: pan is this where Puntal uses it several times on

849
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: Flynn when he first comes into the tower, and she

850
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: like does damage with it. She knocks him unconscious several times.

851
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: She then brings it along on the journey outside of

852
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: the tower and brandishes it as a weapon anytime she

853
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: feels she's in danger. So that happens a number of

854
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: times later, Like you said, Flynn uses it as a

855
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: weapon when he's fighting off the guards in that scene

856
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: what they're at the damn and he loves it. He's like, Wow,

857
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: this is such an effective weapon. I'm going to get

858
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: myself days and it is. And then towards the end,

859
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 1: when the Ruffians are saving Flynn from being hanged, one

860
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: of them uses the frying pan to knock out a

861
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: guard and he and Flynn are both like, wooho, what

862
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: an awesome weapon. So, while this trope has been seen

863
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: again and again in movies, specifically with women wielding a

864
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 1: fronting pan as a weapon, I feel like when you

865
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: consider the context and what Rapunzel has access to, and

866
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: the fact that it then is used as a weapon

867
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: by multiple characters across the gender spectrum, I feel like

868
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more nuanced and tangled. I agree,

869
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: um yeah, And I like that they kind of it almost.

870
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: It felt more like they were commenting on that trope

871
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: that when it appears as often very baseless and like

872
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: you were saying, with the assumption that it's like this

873
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: is all they would know how to use because women

874
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: are pans, But in this case, they I got contextualized

875
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: it well, Rapunzel wield it as a weapon over and over,

876
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: did we I mean, and and I whatever. I think

877
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: that this is open for criticism. But the fact that

878
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: Flynn validated it as a weapon, which like m hm,

879
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: but two ten, I see what they were trying to do.

880
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think maybe maybe a bit of a

881
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: twist on the pan discourse you're expecting exactly. So let's

882
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: let's get into Flynn a little bit. Um So, he's

883
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,760
Speaker 1: kind of he's a bit of an Aladdin type. Um.

884
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: I would say he's he's a steeler, he's a crimer.

885
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a mama or a dad, you know,

886
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a parent, So he's like Aladdin without

887
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 1: the class stuff basically. Sure, so he's kind of swashbuckling around.

888
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: The thing is like with Flynn for the most part,

889
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: I like, don't dislike him as a character. I do

890
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of things he does at the

891
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: beginning of the narrative with Rapunzel where he clearly wants

892
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: to get rid of her. He just wants to get

893
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: what he needs and go on his way. And I

894
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: get that that's his character journey. He needs to realize

895
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: that that's a shitty way to behave. But he's pretty

896
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: cruel to her at the beginning and like notices her

897
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: insecurities and fear of her own mother, and instead of

898
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 1: talking to her about it, weaponizes it against her two

899
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: times back to back. At first he was like, I've

900
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: noticed that you are feeling a lot of grief and

901
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: guilt and confusion about whether you should be like striking

902
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: out on your own, which to go back to a

903
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: puzzle for a second, I thought, was I liked that

904
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: they showed that in her where like it felt like

905
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, for Disney fantasy movie, pretty realistic of like

906
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: her mom repeatedly guilts her for like thinking she would

907
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: be capable of doing it anything, So of course when

908
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: she gets out and she enjoys it, she's like, I'm

909
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: a horrible person. No great, the complicated feelings, right, which

910
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: is a relatable feeling to some extent for for a

911
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of people. But Flynn, you know, obviously like notices

912
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: exactly what's going on and instead uses it instead of

913
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: saying what is obvious, which is like your mom treats

914
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: you really badly and like you should feel okay about

915
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: striking out on your own, like you're not doing anything wrong.

916
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: He had Stead says like, wow, looks like you like

917
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: he does exactly what her mom does, and he does

918
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: that a couple different times. And as much as I

919
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: appreciate that you get context into Flynn's character and you

920
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: get some insight into why he is the way he is,

921
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: I felt like it was like a pointed thing that

922
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,919
Speaker 1: you get that for Flynn, who treats her the same

923
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: way as Gothel at the beginning of the movie. But

924
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: you don't get that for Gothel. She is just a

925
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: villainous villain who is old but wants to be young,

926
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: and that is it. There is no more context we'll

927
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: get into discussion around her, but the whole like you

928
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: know old Crone stereotype that like an anxiety around aging

929
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: for women is a personal defect and not part of

930
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 1: a larger societal pressure. It's like, oh, that's that's on you,

931
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: which I thought was kind of like incredible that they

932
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: didn't like in two thousand ten. I felt like, come on,

933
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: but you know, like Flynn certainly grows as a character

934
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: throughout the movie whatever, Like he has an outsized presence

935
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: in the movie, which is why you get the context

936
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: for him that you do. Um, I think that context

937
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: is pretty effective. But he never like correct me Mark.

938
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: He never really apologizes for doing what he does at

939
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: the beginning, which is very manipulative and cruel. It's not nice,

940
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: that's not boyfriendship to do. Yeah. I was frustrated by

941
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,959
Speaker 1: the romantic storyline because you know that that's where it's going,

942
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: that they're going to end up together. We saw it

943
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: in Trek, We saw it in every fairy tale ever made,

944
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: but most importantly, most importantly in Trek, where he starts

945
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: out as a dick. Yeah, he's manipulative. He weaponizes her

946
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: own insecurities against her. He tries to like seduce her

947
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: at various moments where he's like, let me do this, smolder.

948
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, he's just trying to like use various manipulation

949
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: tactics to get what he wants out of her, and

950
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 1: doesn't treat her well along the way. Uh. Of course

951
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: he does soften up as the story goes. I also

952
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: don't really know why they like each other by the end.

953
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: This is a problem I have with most romantic storylines

954
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: and movies, where it's like, well, yes, they're both attractive

955
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: and they are near each other, but what else, why

956
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: else are they drawn to each other in a sustainable

957
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: way that would like sustain a relationship. I don't really

958
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: see it here at least. And this is like giving

959
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: the movie probably credit that it doesn't do serve but um,

960
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: because Rapunzel has been locked in a tower for eighteen

961
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: years and has never ventured out into the world, there

962
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: was I thought a big danger of the born Sexy

963
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: Yesterday trope being leaned into where she wouldn't know anything.

964
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: She wouldn't know sure what common objects were, or like

965
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 1: how to interact with people or things like that. She

966
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: does fall in love with the first man she meets, Yes,

967
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 1: that is part of that trope, but she is able

968
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: to hold her own as a person out in the

969
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: world far better than you know, other born Sexy Yesterday tropes.

970
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: I agree, And I think that that is like contextualized

971
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: by the fact that she interacts with her mom all

972
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: the time, who like doesn't seem to have a vested

973
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: interest in keeping her away from very basic knowledge. And

974
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 1: she read the toun so it's not like she would

975
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: have any understanding of how that works. So that all

976
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: made sense for me in context, And I feel like

977
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: saved us a lot of annoying trophy, like what is this? Um? Yeah, yeah,

978
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: Like I think the only moment you get that is

979
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: when she puts her feet on the grass, which I

980
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: thought was actually kind of beautiful and made me tear up.

981
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: It was nice. Um. But yeah, so I appreciate it

982
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: that that wasn't a part of the story. But Flynn overall,

983
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:29,240
Speaker 1: it is especially annoying to me because and maybe maybe

984
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: I could be talked out of this. But her goal,

985
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: her desire that drives most of the narrative is to

986
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: go see these lanterns, which again you can kind of

987
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: interpret as just a larger like I want to venture

988
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: out into the world and see what the world has

989
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: to offer and see where what my places in the world.

990
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: Because she also like feels this connection. She's like, who

991
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: am I What these lanterns happen on my birthday? Is

992
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 1: it related to me and my backs? You know? She like,

993
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,479
Speaker 1: once to figure out all these things totally all works

994
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: for me, And I wish that that had been the

995
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: actual resolution of the story in the big climactic moment

996
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: rather than and it's part of it, of course, but

997
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: the big climactic moment having her recaptured, recaped, and then

998
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: like she has to save Flynn, and she's prepared to

999
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: like sacrifice her freedom in order to save him. And then,

1000
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: like we said, he's the one who chops off her

1001
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: hair thereby saving her, which takes away her agency. I

1002
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: saved her from herself, Like I just really didn't like that.

1003
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: I kind of forgot that that was how it ended.

1004
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: I remembered that her hair gets cut off, and that's

1005
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: how like the villain is defeated. But I thought I

1006
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: was like certain that she cut off her own hair

1007
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: so that when so when he did it, I was like, what,

1008
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Well, here here's Jamie's a little hot tech.

1009
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: If she were the protagonist of the movie, she would

1010
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: have But I don't think she's the protagonist of the movie.

1011
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: I think it's Flynn because of all this other stuff

1012
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,360
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about in a second. But like, if

1013
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: the protagonists in the movie is going to do anything,

1014
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 1: it's going to be defeat the villain. She doesn't defeat

1015
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 1: the villain that she has the closer relationship with. Flynn

1016
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: has never met this lady, Like there's no reason, even

1017
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: like storytelling, why is that he would be the one

1018
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: to defeat a villain he has no connection to we've

1019
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: seen like everything, I kind of wonder at what, like

1020
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: if there there has to be a draft of this

1021
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: script where she does it, because that's what the whole

1022
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,439
Speaker 1: movie is fucking building. We see her, she has two

1023
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,439
Speaker 1: or three I thought, pretty effective confrontations, and she keeps

1024
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: trying to escape her mother's grasp and then is not successful.

1025
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 1: That doesn't even bother me, Like she's in this like

1026
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: abusive situation you don't always get out on the first try.

1027
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 1: But it's a fucking kids fantasy movie. She should be

1028
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: the one to remove herself from the situation at the end,

1029
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: but she's in stead ready to trap herself in that

1030
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: situation permanently in order to rescue the first guy she's

1031
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 1: ever met. And it's just like I felt like it

1032
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: doubled down worse than Disney movies that were coming out

1033
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: twenty years before this, Like it just it really bumped

1034
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: me out, Like she doesn't get to kill the fucking villain,

1035
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: especially we have spent so much time, Like it would

1036
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: have been so satisfying if she and it still would

1037
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: have had all the ages stuff going on, but it

1038
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 1: would have like I just like, it doesn't even make

1039
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: sense as a movie for Flynn to be the one

1040
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 1: to initiate the ending. But I think that he's like

1041
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: the movies protagonist. Honestly, we see it's more than change

1042
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: in him than we see change in Rapunzel. He's the

1043
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: first fucking face you see on the screen. He's narrating

1044
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: the movie for some reason. I don't even think she's

1045
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:54,919
Speaker 1: the protagonist of her own movie, which is why that's

1046
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: like it bothers me. I would maybe argue that she

1047
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: is like a dual protagonist situation, but why it should

1048
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: just be Rapunzel. He doesn't have a song, I guess

1049
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: except for this song where they're like kiss the Girling.

1050
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's her desire and goal that drives

1051
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: the narrative, So I would are you dual protagonists? But

1052
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: even so, it's like, well, it's a princess movie. Why

1053
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: are we I think that that, Like that's something that

1054
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: bothers me, is like they're like, the way that we're

1055
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: going to subvert the princess movie is by making a

1056
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: man a dual protagonist. Like that just does not work

1057
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: for me. Not that it's like you can't have a

1058
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:40,000
Speaker 1: buddy movie with characters of more than one gender. That's

1059
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 1: totally fine, but it's like, just because of the way

1060
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: this movie was specifically marketed as like this is a

1061
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: new kind of princess movie, where a lot of the

1062
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: princess movies suck ass and are like reinforcing every trope

1063
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: in the book and every stereotype in the book. But

1064
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: at least they are clearly the protagonist. I agree with

1065
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: what you're saying, like Nn isn't the um soul protagonist,

1066
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: but it doesn't make any fucking sense that he gets

1067
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 1: the final blow in that storyline, especially because the movie

1068
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 1: up until that point seems to have a very vested

1069
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: interest in making Rapunzel way more active, especially versus how

1070
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: she is in the brother's grim fairy tale version of

1071
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: the story. That's why I feel like pretty convinced that

1072
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: there had to be a different draft of because this

1073
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: movie was in development for nine thousand years and its

1074
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:40,520
Speaker 1: first draft was and they said this themselves, not in

1075
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 1: this delightful way, but um Shreky in yes, where they

1076
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: literally like we're going to do Rapunzel Shrek. But then

1077
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, later on in production they're like, well, we

1078
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: want to like give this a more wholesome core, a

1079
01:07:55,120 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: more Disney core. So you have those shreky and elements

1080
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: and then you have those Disney elements. And I think

1081
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 1: that that is the place where it's like chafing the hardest,

1082
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: because if you're trying to have Flynn Ryder be Shrek,

1083
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: first of all, it's not going to happen. Honey. There's

1084
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 1: only one There's only one truck, and I wouldn't have

1085
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: it any other way. But it really bugged me. Okay,

1086
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: So actually, let's well, because it keeps coming up. The

1087
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: production of this movie. It was in development forever. It

1088
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 1: was originally announced as Rapunzel Unbraided in October two thousand

1089
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: and three, which the director himself described as a Shrek

1090
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: like version of the film. He didn't think to because

1091
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: the word shreky and wasn't around back then. This was

1092
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: Glenn key who started developing the story in nineteen six.

1093
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: He eventually left left the project. Um but yeah, because

1094
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: it wasn't shreky and enough. It wasn't. He's like, not

1095
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: not sure, keen enough, I'm leaving. I'm out fair enough.

1096
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, So it started as a Glenn Keene Shrek

1097
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: rip off, which is wildau Shruck was made despite Disney whatever.

1098
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: The story has been told a million times, but like

1099
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 1: it was supposed to take place in San Francisco and

1100
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: revolve around teenagers named Claire and Vince, question mark, it

1101
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: kind of sounds more like Enchanted than it sounds like

1102
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: Shrek or Tangled. Um, but anyways, that is obviously not

1103
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,719
Speaker 1: uh what ended up happening. So then eventually Glenn Keene

1104
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: leaves the project. Rapunzel Umbraided is changed to Rapunzel, which

1105
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 1: makes sense. Most of the Princess movies are named for

1106
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,759
Speaker 1: the protagonist, um with I think the exception of Beauty

1107
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: and the Beast um, but you've got the Little Mermaids,

1108
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: snow White, Sleeping Beauty. Jasmine is not the protagonist of Aladdin,

1109
01:09:56,680 --> 01:10:01,559
Speaker 1: so there you what Pocahontas which but it is named

1110
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: after her, and so the movie is going to be

1111
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: called Rapunzel. The Princess and the Frog is the one

1112
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 1: that comes immediately before this. So the story here is

1113
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: that Princess and the Frog comes out the year before Tangled.

1114
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: And while it was like people enjoyed the movie, you

1115
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: can listen to our episode about it that we we

1116
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:26,560
Speaker 1: simply cannot get into it right now. There's pros and cons.

1117
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: But the movie was considered to have underperformed at the

1118
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: box office. And the reason that they decided that it

1119
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,480
Speaker 1: underperformed at the box office is because the word princess

1120
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 1: was in the title, which, allegedly, per Disney executives, meant

1121
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,799
Speaker 1: that young boys would not want to see a movie

1122
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: with the word princess in the title, or a movie

1123
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 1: named after a princess. So they rework the story to

1124
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: have to protagonists, including an action boy named Flynn Ryder,

1125
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: and they change the movie's title from Rapunzel two Tangled,

1126
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: which I think rightfully caused a lot of controversy and

1127
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 1: I think annoyance within the company. Um onkind of quote

1128
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: a former Disney Pixar animator named Floyd Norman, who said, quote,

1129
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: the idea of changing the title of a classic like

1130
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 1: Rapunzel to Tangle just beyond stupid. I'm convinced they'll gain

1131
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: nothing from this except the public seeing Disney as desperately

1132
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: trying to find an audience. We've got another writer named

1133
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: Margot McGowan saying, can you imagine if Disney switched to

1134
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,840
Speaker 1: movie title so it wouldn't risk highlighting a male star.

1135
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: It's awful that this kind of radical gender discrimination exists

1136
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: for our smallest people, which at first I was like,

1137
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? She means kids, children,

1138
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: little little kids who come into this world with huge

1139
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: imaginations and aspirations, big dreams that get squashed by a

1140
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 1: bunch of billionaire guys who run massive entertainment franchises. People

1141
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 1: had fun with, you know, being like, what what are

1142
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: we gonna call Little Mermaid beached or whatever? Like it

1143
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:05,799
Speaker 1: is kind of an obvious thing. And then UM famous

1144
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: sexual harasser John Lasseter finally spoke out on the issue

1145
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: UM four years after the movie is released in March

1146
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: um saying that this was in fact why it had

1147
01:12:18,520 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: been done, in order to and this is like very

1148
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: business e in the in the Weeds terminology that I

1149
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: didn't even know existed improve the film's appeal to the

1150
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: four quadrants UM, father's Son, Holy Spirit, and women. Um.

1151
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 1: There but Lassater says, quote, there was an audience perception

1152
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: that these movies were just for little girls. But when boys,

1153
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: men whatever actually see these movies, they liked them. So

1154
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: on Rapunzela, we changed the name and we called it Tangled.

1155
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 1: We did marketing that made the people who would not

1156
01:12:51,400 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: normally show up say, hey, this looks pretty good unquote,

1157
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 1: and um, the movie did do very well at the

1158
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:02,960
Speaker 1: box office, or at least outperformed what the Princess and

1159
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 1: the Frog had taken in. And so I think that

1160
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: this ethos was considered like, alright, cool male protagonist. I

1161
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:17,040
Speaker 1: went back and watched two of the official trailers for

1162
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: this movie, and both of them make it seem like

1163
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: Flynn Ryder is the sole protagonist of the movie and

1164
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: the Rapunzel is barely a character based on just like

1165
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 1: the screen time and the activity that both characters are

1166
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: allotted in the trailers, and both of the trailers really

1167
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: emphasized Finn's Flynn what is it Flynn's Flynn's swashbuckling and

1168
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,839
Speaker 1: like all of his his like he's riding horses, he's fighting,

1169
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 1: he's doing all this stuff that has featured far more

1170
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 1: prominently than anything related to Rapunzel's story and her like

1171
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: I have this and I want to go on that

1172
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:05,560
Speaker 1: is left out of the marketing, exhausting the movie. I

1173
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 1: remember a similar thing happening to Mohanna, where I was

1174
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: watching mo Wanna trailers and now he was the protagonists,

1175
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 1: so which at least they were able to name the

1176
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: movie Mohanna, Like, it does seem like and maybe it

1177
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: was like Frozen that was able to turn this car

1178
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 1: around and like having dual female protagonists being wildly successful.

1179
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: They're like, maybe we don't need to go down this

1180
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,640
Speaker 1: road of giving the love interest this outsize presence in

1181
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 1: the movie. I that's my guess off the top of

1182
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: my head of why you were allowed to name movies

1183
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: after female protagonists. Again, it's all money. It has nothing

1184
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: to do with you know, giving a shit about equity

1185
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Um, but um, you know, I'm

1186
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 1: sure that Frozen being a billion dollar franchise contributed to that.

1187
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: But this is such a bizarre moment for Like, it

1188
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 1: sucks because Rapunzel is a very cool character and I

1189
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: don't I don't even mind that Flynn has I think

1190
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 1: it it is actually like a positive adjustment for the

1191
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: princess world that I mean, such a popular criticism of

1192
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:22,559
Speaker 1: Disney princesses is that the Disney princes is that they

1193
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: have no personality and they're boring and you have no

1194
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: idea why she would be interested in him. This movie

1195
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: feels like a major overcorrection of that issue. I think

1196
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: that Flynn having a personality is great. I like that

1197
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 1: now and in Frozen, which is not a movie that

1198
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 1: I have any love for. Really like Frozen too much better,

1199
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: but um, you know, the love interests have or like

1200
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 1: Anna's husband guy has a personality, like you at least

1201
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: have some understanding of why are there at least attempting

1202
01:15:57,240 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: to let you know why they're interested in each other.

1203
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 1: I think that that's important and good. There are still

1204
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 1: two white hetero couples giving a man more of a personality.

1205
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 1: It feels like a real half step in sideways. But

1206
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 1: but it's whatever the point being like, great, let's have

1207
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:20,240
Speaker 1: Flynn have a personality, But that doesn't mean that giving

1208
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 1: him a personality means the movie should then be about him.

1209
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: Plus like especially when that personality is he's kind of

1210
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 1: a dick for a large swath of the movie, right right,

1211
01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:35,640
Speaker 1: and it feels like he's like, well, it's okay that

1212
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm a dick because I'm better, and you're like, well,

1213
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 1: but I do feel like they try, which is also

1214
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: a very Disney choice, and I know that that's a

1215
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: lot of like I feel like with Rapunzel, she is

1216
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:51,600
Speaker 1: a very abused person, and she's still extremely kind and

1217
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: extremely empathetic and wants to see the best in people.

1218
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 1: So it doesn't really play for me that it's like, well,

1219
01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:00,120
Speaker 1: Flynn grew up in an orphanage, which obviously is an

1220
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:03,720
Speaker 1: extremely difficult thing, but they've both had difficult childhoods. It

1221
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: doesn't make it okay that he treats her like garbage,

1222
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:13,120
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so, which does that transition us to the

1223
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: mother daughter relationship discussion. Let's talk about every movie's about

1224
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 1: fathers and sons. Not this time, baby it's about it's

1225
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: about mothers and daughters and Flynn Ryder. For some reason,

1226
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: I have a spiel about this. Here we go go off,

1227
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:37,080
Speaker 1: thank you so Disney fairy Tale, Disney fairy Tales. As

1228
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:42,640
Speaker 1: we've discussed, yes, as we've discussed endlessly on the podcast,

1229
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:49,040
Speaker 1: they have a sordid history with mother daughter relationships because

1230
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: usually the mother is dead and or there's an evil

1231
01:17:54,439 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 1: stepmother situation. They don't kill the mother in this one.

1232
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: They just almost kill her. It just don't let her talk,

1233
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 1: They don't let her speak, and he almost dies. But

1234
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:06,759
Speaker 1: then they're like, but then we saved her, We saved

1235
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 1: her and she's good now, and she's good and and

1236
01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: and so in this movie there is an evil foster

1237
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: mother slash kidnapper slash captor. But because Rapunzel thinks this

1238
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 1: is her real mother for most of the movie, let's

1239
01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,799
Speaker 1: just call it a mother daughter relationship, even though it's

1240
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 1: I mean, she was raised as Gothel's daughter exactly. Yes,

1241
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 1: so we've got so let's examine Gothel for a moment.

1242
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:39,480
Speaker 1: She is emotionally abusive, she's manipulative, she gaslights Rapunzel constantly.

1243
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: She's obviously using Rapunzel for her powers. So a Gothel

1244
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: is dependent on Rapunzel and then has created a situation

1245
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: where Rapunzel has no choice but to be dependent on Goffel.

1246
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: And part of this is Gothel completely isolating Rapunzel and

1247
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: being very controlling of Rapunzel's life and what she does

1248
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:06,520
Speaker 1: and does not have access to. Gothel also makes insulting

1249
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,880
Speaker 1: remarks to Rapunzel that she insists our jokes and then

1250
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,560
Speaker 1: says things like stop taking everything so seriously. Gothel blames

1251
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: her own abuse of behavior on Rapunzel and then says

1252
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:21,000
Speaker 1: things like you're making me the bad guy, trying to

1253
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:27,280
Speaker 1: make Rapunzel feel guilty. So even though we do not

1254
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: have a lot of great examples of loving, caring, non

1255
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,679
Speaker 1: toxic mother daughter relationships in movies, because most movies aren't

1256
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 1: about mother daughter relationships, the relationship we see in this

1257
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,559
Speaker 1: movie is very similar to plenty of real life mother

1258
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: daughter relationships. And I know that there are people who

1259
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 1: feel very seen by this particular relationship dynamic, which is important.

1260
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 1: People like, regardless of their circumstances, want to feel represented

1261
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 1: and seen and validated. And and I think like the

1262
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,639
Speaker 1: focus on a parent child relationship in a movie of

1263
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:09,400
Speaker 1: this genre that isn't uncomplicated is cool and I feel

1264
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: like it kind of Um, I don't know, I'm trying

1265
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:16,639
Speaker 1: to think of other parents. Like in earlier Disney movies,

1266
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 1: parents are either absent, dead or you have like a

1267
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:25,679
Speaker 1: well meaning but ultimately harmful father whose behavior is never

1268
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: really called out. Thinking about King Triton and Bell's goofy

1269
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: dad who both you know, like, I don't know, maybe

1270
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 1: there is like some introspection on King Triton because he

1271
01:20:39,400 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: faces a consequence, which is his daughter bails on him.

1272
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: But all that to say, like, you don't get a

1273
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:51,160
Speaker 1: focus like this with mother's specifically very often and it's like,

1274
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, like i'd be interested to read how

1275
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: people feel about it, because it is, like, I don't know,

1276
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: having a deeply narcissistic person in your life from a

1277
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 1: very young age is really traumatic and like function your

1278
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: perception of the world. And I like that going back

1279
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: to seeing Rapunzel's like back and forth of like elation

1280
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: and deep guilt, like that really follows, attracts, affects you. Yeah,

1281
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: like I thought that that was really um whatever. I mean,

1282
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: it's a Disney movie. It's not subtle um, but yeah,

1283
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 1: it's I'm kind of like the Mother gothel stuff is

1284
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:30,639
Speaker 1: tricky because I'm of two minds about it. On one end,

1285
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 1: I do think that representing um or like just having

1286
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 1: a storyline with a child growing up with a very narcissistic,

1287
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 1: manipulative parent is interesting and I do totally understand why

1288
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people felt seen in that. And I

1289
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: see a different side of it where it's like, is

1290
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: this not just another evil older woman who is being

1291
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: demonized for wanting to be young? And it's it gets

1292
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: tricky because it's like you should be angry at her

1293
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,160
Speaker 1: for the way she is doing it. The fact that

1294
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 1: she in the same way that like you almost think

1295
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: of like the Queen and snow White to go way

1296
01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: back in Disney Princess Canad where kind of a similar

1297
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,799
Speaker 1: motivation where the Queen wants no way to die because

1298
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: she's younger and more beautiful than her. Gosthel is trapping

1299
01:22:21,560 --> 01:22:25,640
Speaker 1: Rapunzel and you know, manipulating her day after day because

1300
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 1: she needs her to remain appearing younger and quote unquote

1301
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: more beautiful prevent her from aging. She's like Rapunzel is

1302
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: like the touch Everlasting Tree of the movie. So I

1303
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 1: feel like the little wrench in this is that she

1304
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: needs to manipulate another woman in order to remain young.

1305
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:50,000
Speaker 1: It becomes a rivalry between these two women. So so,

1306
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: but I also feel like it's having an older woman

1307
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:59,160
Speaker 1: like making it seem it's it's almost like patriarchy the

1308
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:01,840
Speaker 1: guy kind of thing where it's like, oh, well, her

1309
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 1: fixation on appearing young, that's an evil quality, and like

1310
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,719
Speaker 1: there's no introspection to like, well, what about the world

1311
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: has made her feel that way? Because that's a very legitimate.

1312
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 1: Certainly in two thousand ten and also now and probably

1313
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 1: for a long time, women are going to be made

1314
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 1: to feel bad about aging, and they will be viewed

1315
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: as less valuable by society for visibly aging. Like that's

1316
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: just the factiest fact there is, unfortunately, Right, So I

1317
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: feel similarly conflicted because again, like I think on the podcast,

1318
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:43,479
Speaker 1: at least, I've been guilty of seeing a toxic mother

1319
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:48,240
Speaker 1: daughter relationship and just kind of writing it off as like, oh, well,

1320
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:52,400
Speaker 1: this is two women being pinned against each other and

1321
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 1: I don't like it. But and there's a lot more

1322
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 1: nuance to that, because there are a lot of toxic

1323
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:04,759
Speaker 1: relationship dynamics in real life that absolutely many, if not most,

1324
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: people have experienced. They deserve to be explored as much

1325
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 1: as positive relationships do on screen. But I just think

1326
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: it's very pointed that this is the first one you're

1327
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 1: seeing and the reason that it's toxic. I think like

1328
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: that's where it gets a little muddled. It feels like this,

1329
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:24,719
Speaker 1: Like again, it's like a lot of this movie where

1330
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: like some of it is exploring new territory and like

1331
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 1: pushing forward in an interesting way, but even like the

1332
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 1: attempt to do that in this movie is still like

1333
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: hampered with these older tropes that I feel like gives

1334
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:40,640
Speaker 1: what should be something that is and I'm glad that

1335
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:44,040
Speaker 1: it has really worked and made a lot of people's

1336
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:49,639
Speaker 1: family dynamics feel validated and seen in a huge movie.

1337
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: But it's just like, I feel like it takes away

1338
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: from it a little bit by having it hampered by

1339
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: those old tropes. Yeah, the main issue for me with

1340
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 1: this particular aspect of the story is that we end

1341
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:03,800
Speaker 1: up with a pretty one dimensional female villain. I love

1342
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 1: a female villain, especially if their villainy is contextualized, and

1343
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: not that you necessarily need context for every single movie villain,

1344
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,719
Speaker 1: but because this one, it does seem to be playing

1345
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:18,400
Speaker 1: into tropes, it would be nice to have a better

1346
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 1: understanding of why Gothel is the way she is, where

1347
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: she's coming from, all this stuff, especially because like this

1348
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 1: movie has. I think it just depends on the kind

1349
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 1: of movie you're watching, where sometimes it's like we're not

1350
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:33,759
Speaker 1: getting context for any of these characters. It's an action movie.

1351
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,880
Speaker 1: We're giving the protagonist context and that's it, and that

1352
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,840
Speaker 1: at least that's like equal. But in this this movie

1353
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: goes way out of its way to give you context

1354
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: for Flynn, which is a subversion of this kind of movie.

1355
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: But I think that the fact that they don't. And

1356
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: I love villainy evil villains. I love that she gets stabbed,

1357
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:56,519
Speaker 1: like great, totally fine by me. I like, you know,

1358
01:25:56,640 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 1: I love a villainy villain. Jigsaw is my husband, Game over,

1359
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: Game over slam r I P. But I mean and

1360
01:26:06,360 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 1: talk about a contextualized villain Jigsaw, who they got whole

1361
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: movies about it. But but I just think that if

1362
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: this movie is trying to change some of the standard

1363
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: mechanics of a movie like this by giving the love

1364
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: interest context, not extending that to the villain feels pointed,

1365
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:30,120
Speaker 1: especially when there's so much baggage around that type of

1366
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 1: character that like total crone archetype totally it would it

1367
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 1: would have been nice to get some some context because otherwise, yeah,

1368
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,040
Speaker 1: it just feels like a harmful trope that we've seen

1369
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 1: again and again. But in keeping with the Disney tradition,

1370
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 1: I did really like her song. Oh it's a good one.

1371
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: I like the visuals too, is it's it's kind of

1372
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 1: tied with I also really like Rapunza opening song. I

1373
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: did like that Flynn Ryder did not get a song

1374
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,799
Speaker 1: because I didn't need it. I also, oh, first of all,

1375
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 1: Brad Garrett and Ron Perlman. Wow, I mean, can I

1376
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: just say wow? Also, this movie is so aggressively white

1377
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,680
Speaker 1: it is Um. Sorry, was another thing I was going

1378
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:23,200
Speaker 1: to say about one of the things that this movie

1379
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: does not subvert as far as like Disney Princess Fairytale tropes.

1380
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:33,040
Speaker 1: The character design for Rapunzel very much. She is adhering

1381
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: to classic Western beauty standards. She's thin, she's white, she's blonde.

1382
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 1: The male characters she's young, young, eighteen years old. Why

1383
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:44,680
Speaker 1: are there so many movies about eighteen year olds? What

1384
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 1: about the movies about people double that age? Thirty six?

1385
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:54,600
Speaker 1: My ageit Toronte story, erupted story. Um, there's plenty of

1386
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 1: those two. Anyway. My point is that all the female

1387
01:27:57,680 --> 01:28:01,559
Speaker 1: characters are very classically beautiful, and then men get to

1388
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:05,759
Speaker 1: be different shapes, different shapes, different sizes, etcetera, not different colors.

1389
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: Everyone is white, which is, like, I mean, such an

1390
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 1: animation trope that we've discussed a million times at this point,

1391
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 1: where there's no reason that there couldn't be diversity in

1392
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:21,439
Speaker 1: this movie. For and I it always really like, it

1393
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 1: always bugs me when the excuse for that is like, well,

1394
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: this movie takes place in European countries, so in the

1395
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 1: area it was supposed to take place in, there would

1396
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: not have been anyone who wasn't white. And it's like, um,

1397
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: he fights a horse with a sore, like with a pan,

1398
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:39,280
Speaker 1: we can suspend our disbelief. Clearly we are like open

1399
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: to not adhering to the rules of reality. Like haven't

1400
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:51,520
Speaker 1: you ever seen Brandy Cinderella seven the best fantasy adaptation

1401
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: of all time? Wow, that that movie really does I'm

1402
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: due for a rewatch. I really love that movie so much.

1403
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:01,599
Speaker 1: But then I'm just like, can I cry all night again?

1404
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I just got like a really nice

1405
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 1: feeling to think about Brandy Cinderella Tangled. Yeah, it is

1406
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 1: not diverse in any way. The most radical statement it

1407
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:17,080
Speaker 1: makes on anything is that it's okay to have brown hair,

1408
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:22,480
Speaker 1: which is so weird. Um like kind of a shockingly

1409
01:29:24,120 --> 01:29:28,680
Speaker 1: like nothing message, like you can have a shitty haircut,

1410
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 1: sorry but I don't like Rapundl's haircut. You can have

1411
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 1: a shitty haircut and brown hair, and you're like, well,

1412
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: I've been doing that for you know, decades at this point,

1413
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:40,719
Speaker 1: So let's let's keep it. Let's keep it pushing, all right, there,

1414
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:45,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, there there's no body diversity. There's

1415
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 1: no diversity period. And then also, like, I think it's

1416
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:54,479
Speaker 1: very I read some criticism around how mother Goffel is,

1417
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,639
Speaker 1: you know, like she's tall, or she's got dark hair,

1418
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,599
Speaker 1: she has darker feature yours. Then Rapunzel and it just

1419
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 1: sort of seems like, oh, the palest blondes blue aside

1420
01:30:05,439 --> 01:30:10,320
Speaker 1: woman is going to be the best. Um, So okay,

1421
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 1: we wanted to add an insert here to address something

1422
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,120
Speaker 1: that we didn't address in the original episode. A lot

1423
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 1: of listeners pointed this out. Honestly, I didn't pick up

1424
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:26,200
Speaker 1: on it. So thank you to our wonderful listeners for

1425
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: performing us and just helping us be as intersectional in

1426
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: our analysis as possible. And honestly, I mean, this is

1427
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:37,439
Speaker 1: a trope that we have discussed before. I just we

1428
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: just did not pick up on it in this particular movie,

1429
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 1: So right, we wanted to make sure that we were

1430
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:45,800
Speaker 1: acknowledging that once our listeners pointed it out, we're like,

1431
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:48,599
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I mean we want to sort of dig

1432
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:52,360
Speaker 1: into this trope a little more because, uh, it is

1433
01:30:52,439 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 1: rife throughout animation, which is how has come up on

1434
01:30:54,680 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: this show before. That is the trend in not just

1435
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 1: Disney media, but children's media in general, and media on

1436
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:09,839
Speaker 1: the whole of using anti Semitic tropes in the villain

1437
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 1: of the story, which is present in the character of

1438
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:19,240
Speaker 1: Mother Gothel in Tangled, and a listener sent us a

1439
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:23,200
Speaker 1: wonderful piece written by Tatum Shut from Hey Alma dot

1440
01:31:23,240 --> 01:31:26,800
Speaker 1: com entitled why do so many Disney Villains look like me?

1441
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 1: Tatum points out that Disney has a long history of

1442
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 1: Jewish coding their villains, and it is very clear Entangled.

1443
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: I'll pull a quote from this piece. Quote, Mother Goszel

1444
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,160
Speaker 1: is the cinematic foil for the predictably wide eyed, button

1445
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: nosed Rapunzel Goszel, that magnificent mirror curial whoops, didn't do

1446
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 1: that word right, uh, manipulator, so miserly with her food

1447
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 1: and money, so separate from the other golden haired kingdom,

1448
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:03,760
Speaker 1: so distinctly mothered, she so happens to be animated with

1449
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 1: the curly black hair and hook nosed stereotypical to Jews.

1450
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:12,799
Speaker 1: But beyond Gothel's suspicious phenotype, Tangled follows an eerily familiar

1451
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 1: story blood libel and anti semitic canard that reverberates throughout

1452
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:21,280
Speaker 1: history accuses Jews of stealing Christian children to bake their

1453
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,679
Speaker 1: blood into Manza. I didn't even know that that like that,

1454
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:28,479
Speaker 1: this is like a spot in history and tropes that

1455
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 1: I was not aware how deep this anti Semitic trope.

1456
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 1: When same same Yeah, Tatum goes on to say it

1457
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 1: was particularly prevalent in the Middle Ages, when it was

1458
01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 1: not uncommon for European Jews to be hunted down and

1459
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 1: murdered whenever a child went missing. Jews stealing pretty Arian

1460
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:50,560
Speaker 1: children to sustain their dark magic unquote as the you know, perception,

1461
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 1: yeah went And then another thing I just didn't know

1462
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 1: was Tatum shut goes on to describe and kind of

1463
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 1: explicitly connect the fact at uh, you know, Disney is

1464
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 1: a horrible company that is not employing this trope out

1465
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,879
Speaker 1: of nowhere. It is cooked into the text of Grimm's

1466
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 1: Fairy Tales, which are also wildly anti Semitic, um going

1467
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:18,560
Speaker 1: so far as they cite a lesser known, thank god,

1468
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:22,559
Speaker 1: uh story from Grimm's Fairy Tales called the Jew in

1469
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 1: the Brambles. So the brothers Grimm, we're also horrifically anti

1470
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 1: Semitic themselves, and Disney instead of subverting all of the

1471
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: things that they do in this movie, which is how

1472
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 1: this movie was marketed. Instead re employs this Like you

1473
01:33:40,280 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 1: cannot overstate the harm of using a trope like this,

1474
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:48,200
Speaker 1: and we see it in media still and so yeah,

1475
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: we really wanted to thank our listeners that sent this

1476
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 1: our way. We did not pick up on it on

1477
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:57,520
Speaker 1: first viewing, and it is still an issue in animation.

1478
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked quite a bit about how Disney

1479
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:04,960
Speaker 1: m habitually queer codes their villains, but this is also

1480
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:08,720
Speaker 1: an extremely worthy discussion and where sorry we missed it

1481
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:11,360
Speaker 1: on the first time. Thank you to everyone who sent it. Indeed,

1482
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 1: especially again because you know, coding villains in a certain way,

1483
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,439
Speaker 1: queer coding them, quoting them as people of color, as

1484
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:21,599
Speaker 1: Disney has done in the past, um, quoting them as Jewish.

1485
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:27,719
Speaker 1: This consciously or subconsciously influences people's perceptions of already marginalized groups.

1486
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: It reinforces harmful stereotypes, all kinds of very nasty things,

1487
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:35,000
Speaker 1: to the point where like we adult media critics did

1488
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:37,920
Speaker 1: not pick up on it, right, So um, and my

1489
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 1: guest would be like, why is this happening in a movie?

1490
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:45,880
Speaker 1: From as Tatum shut points out, like, yes, it is

1491
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:50,479
Speaker 1: baked into the source material, but why is this but

1492
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 1: like fling Ryder is not, you know, there's there's no

1493
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 1: excuse for it. Honestly, my guests would be I mean,

1494
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:02,120
Speaker 1: Walt Disney was notoriously anti Semitic, and he probably had

1495
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: a hand in coding early Disney villains as Jewish. And

1496
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: since most animated Disney films follow the same formula, they

1497
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:13,400
Speaker 1: have a very distinct visual style. All the you know,

1498
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:18,360
Speaker 1: princesses are kind of molded after a very specific, you know,

1499
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:22,879
Speaker 1: Western beauty standard phenotype. All of the villains are modeled

1500
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:28,320
Speaker 1: after like another very specific design. Like earlier Disney movies

1501
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: just reused animation from previous movies. It's just like the

1502
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,920
Speaker 1: same movie basically over and over over and over and over.

1503
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like by the time Tangled came out,

1504
01:35:38,479 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 1: what is the when is the last time this company

1505
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,439
Speaker 1: sat down and said, well, what have we harmed that

1506
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 1: we need to scale back? So so thank you again,

1507
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: and um yeah we wanted to include that um in

1508
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:59,800
Speaker 1: this insert, So thanks again everyone, And back to the episode.

1509
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 1: He's got dark hair, she has darker features than Rapunzel,

1510
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:05,959
Speaker 1: and it just sort of seems like, Oh, the palest,

1511
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 1: blondest bluicide woman is going to be the best. She

1512
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:13,559
Speaker 1: can get a chitty haircut later, but she you know,

1513
01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: she's got to have blonde hair for most of the movie.

1514
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 1: And then Flynn Ryder bravely legs women with brown hair fine, like,

1515
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,800
Speaker 1: oh wow, what an ally? What a king? Just like,

1516
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 1: so bring in jig Saw. I'm ready to die that

1517
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:32,960
Speaker 1: do do do? Al So, I don't think the Saw

1518
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 1: episode has come out yet on the Matreon, but matrons

1519
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: give it like four days. And then I think we

1520
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:45,120
Speaker 1: really like not to freak anyone out, but I think

1521
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:47,519
Speaker 1: that we had a really special month over in the Matreon,

1522
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:54,200
Speaker 1: our most chaotic episode to date, and then Saw. We're um, Caitlin,

1523
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:57,840
Speaker 1: we need to plan this offline, but that screening of

1524
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:01,000
Speaker 1: Saw is coming up, and they're still time for us

1525
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 1: to get Jigsaw cosplay, right, do do do do? Do?

1526
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: Do do do do do? I think that because it is

1527
01:37:11,160 --> 01:37:13,680
Speaker 1: a four thirty screening, that there will be no one

1528
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:15,880
Speaker 1: costplaying except for us, and it will be like that

1529
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:21,280
Speaker 1: amazing tweet about the Baba Duck where everyone else is

1530
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:25,720
Speaker 1: just enjoying themselves and then we're addressed as to Jigsaw perfect.

1531
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:29,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have any other way anyway. Do you have

1532
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: anything else you want to talk about? I wanted to

1533
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:39,519
Speaker 1: share one more quote about specifically this movie's preoccupation with

1534
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:43,800
Speaker 1: blonde hair. The link to this original story is unfortunately

1535
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 1: no longer working, but it was quoted in a Miss

1536
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:52,040
Speaker 1: magazine piece from the time. The writer being quoted is

1537
01:37:52,160 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 1: only credited as Renee Um, but Renee of Womanist Musings.

1538
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:01,800
Speaker 1: And she's talking about the you know I mean, and

1539
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:05,479
Speaker 1: this is technically Rapunzel canon I guess like not that

1540
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 1: Rapunzel has to be canonically blonde or white or anything like.

1541
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:13,320
Speaker 1: So she writes quote as a black woman, I know

1542
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: all too well how complicated the issue of hair can be.

1543
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:20,360
Speaker 1: Looking at the image of Tangled Rapunzel, I found that

1544
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,640
Speaker 1: I could not see beyond her long blond hair and

1545
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,400
Speaker 1: blue eyes. I believe that this will also become the

1546
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:28,280
Speaker 1: focal point of many girls of color. The standard of long,

1547
01:38:28,320 --> 01:38:32,520
Speaker 1: flowing blonde hair as the epitome of femininity necessarily excludes

1548
01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:35,519
Speaker 1: and challenges the idea that women of color are feminine

1549
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: and desired, and therefore, while Disney is creating an image

1550
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:41,720
Speaker 1: of Rapunzel that we are accustomed to. Her rebirth in

1551
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:44,600
Speaker 1: a modern day context is problematic because her body represents

1552
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:48,120
Speaker 1: the celebration of white femininity. The fact that Tangled is

1553
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:50,719
Speaker 1: coming on the heels of the first African American Disney

1554
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:53,760
Speaker 1: princess is indeed problematic. It makes Princess Tiana seemed like

1555
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:57,559
Speaker 1: an impotent token, with Rapunzel appearing to reset the standard

1556
01:38:57,600 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 1: of what princess means and even more precise Slee what

1557
01:39:00,920 --> 01:39:06,040
Speaker 1: womanhood means unquote. Um again, I mean, we do have

1558
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 1: a whole episode on the princess and the frog that

1559
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:11,800
Speaker 1: you can go back to. But a big issue that

1560
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:13,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people had but that movie, and that

1561
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:16,759
Speaker 1: we did as well, is that Disney's first black princess

1562
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:19,880
Speaker 1: spends most of the movie as a frog. And so

1563
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:24,280
Speaker 1: you while Tiana is their first black Disney princess, she

1564
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:29,479
Speaker 1: is also not celebrated to the extent that any other

1565
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 1: Disney princess is. So I I yeah, I just wanted

1566
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 1: to share that as well, because again, this is a

1567
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:42,640
Speaker 1: Disney fantasy movie. Rapunzel didn't need to be white and

1568
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 1: blonde and skinny. It just didn't need to be that way.

1569
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:52,679
Speaker 1: I mean, so most people have hair that could become long.

1570
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:55,320
Speaker 1: That is so brave of you to say not everyone.

1571
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to be making sweeping generalizations. No, but

1572
01:39:59,439 --> 01:40:01,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I I get. I think that truly. The

1573
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 1: only absolute must with Rapunzel's character is she's got to

1574
01:40:05,320 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 1: have long hair. The end of list, like kind of

1575
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 1: end of qualifications. Everything else about her is malleable. The

1576
01:40:12,479 --> 01:40:15,880
Speaker 1: only thing that is absolutely important to the character is

1577
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:17,960
Speaker 1: that she has long hair, and she's going to be

1578
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 1: trapped in a tower. So there you go. She could

1579
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: also be wearing a wig or extensions. We don't know.

1580
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:28,000
Speaker 1: We don't know. Can you imagine that if Nicole Kidman

1581
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:30,880
Speaker 1: played Rapunzel, what kind of wig she would be bringing

1582
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:38,960
Speaker 1: to set? Oh? My word, Oh my word. Okay, Well, anyways, Um,

1583
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:41,799
Speaker 1: that's all I have. I wanted to share that quote

1584
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 1: and that I think. That's that's all I've got. So

1585
01:40:43,880 --> 01:40:48,679
Speaker 1: shall we get to the matter at hand the test? Yes,

1586
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:53,840
Speaker 1: it does, but I think only between Rapunzel and Gossl Yes,

1587
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 1: because this movie, I think again, in this overcorrection, like

1588
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:01,320
Speaker 1: the boys won't see a princess movie like Panic, This

1589
01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:06,639
Speaker 1: movie is front loaded with a million extra male characters,

1590
01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:08,080
Speaker 1: some of them I like, some of them that I don't.

1591
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:12,400
Speaker 1: We got too much Flynn. Flynn's animal has a huge

1592
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 1: arc tournament to glue, don't care. We have the gallery

1593
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:19,439
Speaker 1: of rogues that all want to be musicians in my

1594
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:21,240
Speaker 1: and I kind of like them, but they are all

1595
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 1: men and they didn't have to all be men. Nope,

1596
01:41:23,080 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 1: why can't we have some some women rogues that are

1597
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:30,920
Speaker 1: give Punzela of a female friend. Let's get some envy

1598
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 1: rogues in the mix. All these the only qualification for

1599
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:39,599
Speaker 1: a rogue, They're going to be rogue ish. Yeah, so

1600
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: so you really only do get two women I think

1601
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:47,120
Speaker 1: talking in the whole movie, because Rapunzel's parents are not talking.

1602
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:50,360
Speaker 1: I think that her dad at one point goes yeah,

1603
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:56,679
Speaker 1: but the queen says none of things. Zippo. Damn as

1604
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:01,760
Speaker 1: far as our nipple scale, which is the golden standard.

1605
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:07,840
Speaker 1: Speaking of golden hair, I see you're not going to

1606
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:12,800
Speaker 1: have a reaction to that. Okay, Sorry, I was looking

1607
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:19,280
Speaker 1: at a picture of Zachary Levi. Is that embarrassing? Wow? Okay, sorry,

1608
01:42:19,320 --> 01:42:20,960
Speaker 1: I did zone up for a second because I was

1609
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:24,800
Speaker 1: looking at Zacharily Levi's Wikipedia page. Okay, kill me. So no,

1610
01:42:24,960 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 1: I was trying to it again. Wait, what did you?

1611
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:28,800
Speaker 1: Can you do it again? It's not worth repeating because

1612
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,200
Speaker 1: it's not even a good joke. I just said I

1613
01:42:31,200 --> 01:42:33,720
Speaker 1: said it was like, and I also phrased it wrong.

1614
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:36,720
Speaker 1: I should have said, like speaking of golden hair. The

1615
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 1: golden standard of movie analysis scales manipple scale. Meanwhile, I'm

1616
01:42:44,280 --> 01:42:48,639
Speaker 1: being here looking at pictures of merne in on Wikipedia board,

1617
01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:56,360
Speaker 1: I know, setting the clock back yet again. Um okay, yes,

1618
01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:58,599
Speaker 1: I do agree. This is the golden standards. Yes, thank

1619
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 1: you so much. The golden shio. Wow, what is that?

1620
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:07,120
Speaker 1: The golden ratio is a specific number. I forget what

1621
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: it is, but it shows up a lot in nature,

1622
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:14,639
Speaker 1: like a snail's shell has the golden ratio. Oh yes,

1623
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:17,800
Speaker 1: and it's like and and and like conscious and ship.

1624
01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 1: That's fine, et cetera. Leaves shout out nature, you know. Anyway,

1625
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:31,240
Speaker 1: So the nipples scale zero to five nipples based on

1626
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 1: looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. I'm

1627
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:39,320
Speaker 1: tempted to just sort of and I know this feels

1628
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 1: like cheating, but I kind of want to give it

1629
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 1: like a split down the middle at two point five.

1630
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:48,679
Speaker 1: I do think it is pushing the needle forward by

1631
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:54,280
Speaker 1: a little bit as far as Disney Princess Fairytale movies go,

1632
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:58,120
Speaker 1: because it is supporting some of the harmful tropes we've

1633
01:43:58,160 --> 01:44:02,160
Speaker 1: seen of the past, especially because when I think of

1634
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:06,720
Speaker 1: Damsel and Distress, my go to person that I think

1635
01:44:06,760 --> 01:44:10,719
Speaker 1: of is Sleeping Beauty and Rapunzel. Yeah, and I didn't

1636
01:44:10,760 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 1: even the only thing I knew about, like the Rapunzel story,

1637
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,759
Speaker 1: because I've never read the Grimm's Brothers fairy tale. Fuck

1638
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:21,320
Speaker 1: had to like look on Wikipedia to see what the

1639
01:44:21,360 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 1: actual story was because the only thing I knew was

1640
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:26,679
Speaker 1: that there's a lady with long hair in a tower

1641
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 1: and a prince climbs her hair to save her, like

1642
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 1: very very classic Damsel in Distress narrative. So because this movie,

1643
01:44:36,439 --> 01:44:39,240
Speaker 1: you know, takes that premise, but then gives her a

1644
01:44:39,280 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 1: lot more agency, lets her save herself, lets her save Flynn.

1645
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 1: I keep saying, whatever his name is, Flynn, probably except

1646
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:49,639
Speaker 1: it's Eugene. I forgot to mention that in the recap.

1647
01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 1: But his real name is Eugene. Who cares Flynn, She

1648
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 1: saves him, she saves herself. She has far more agency

1649
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,400
Speaker 1: than your classic Damsel in distres us character. But there's

1650
01:45:02,439 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: all these other things as we've discussed that, you know,

1651
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:09,040
Speaker 1: don't push the needle as far ahead as we would

1652
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:11,120
Speaker 1: have liked. But it is kind of like a stepping

1653
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,759
Speaker 1: stone movie. I feel yes paves the way for Mowanna,

1654
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:18,080
Speaker 1: for example. So with that in mind, I'll give it

1655
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 1: two and a half nipples, and I'll give one to Rapunzel.

1656
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 1: Love her Punzel. I think a lot of her Punzel.

1657
01:45:24,400 --> 01:45:26,320
Speaker 1: I mean this, I love her character, but a lot

1658
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:29,799
Speaker 1: of it is just like, Wow, Mandy Moore, she's special.

1659
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 1: I feel like she's even though she just was on

1660
01:45:32,000 --> 01:45:34,439
Speaker 1: the most famous TV show for like ten years and

1661
01:45:34,479 --> 01:45:37,240
Speaker 1: I never watched it. I feel like she's still underrated.

1662
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 1: I love Mandy Moore. Yeah, I agree. Um, I'll give

1663
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: one nipple two to Gothel because I feel like she

1664
01:45:48,360 --> 01:45:52,120
Speaker 1: is potentially misunderstood. Slash. I love a female villain, Slash.

1665
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 1: I wish she had been more contextualized. Slash. There was

1666
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:57,160
Speaker 1: just like things about her character that I didn't even

1667
01:45:57,160 --> 01:45:58,960
Speaker 1: need to contextualize her in a way that made her

1668
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:03,719
Speaker 1: seem nicer. You had to give us something, right, although

1669
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:05,960
Speaker 1: maybe people will be like you don't it's a fairy tale.

1670
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:09,360
Speaker 1: Villains are just evil for the sake of being evil.

1671
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I still it's just I feel complicated

1672
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:14,719
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'll still be My feelings about

1673
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:21,200
Speaker 1: this will like continue evolving as we examine similar relationship dynamics. Yes,

1674
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:24,840
Speaker 1: point is I would have liked more for for her character. Yes,

1675
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 1: my half nipple, I will give to the Paula Tompkins,

1676
01:46:32,760 --> 01:46:36,640
Speaker 1: little old guy who wears a paper and looks like

1677
01:46:36,680 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 1: a little cupid with a bone arrow at the end

1678
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 1: of the movie, shout out as always, friend Paul. He's

1679
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:45,479
Speaker 1: the best best rogue in the gallery as far as

1680
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:48,559
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. And when we had Brad Garrett in there,

1681
01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:52,120
Speaker 1: okay there, Caitlin. I before I give you my rating,

1682
01:46:52,160 --> 01:46:54,040
Speaker 1: I did just want to say I just sent you

1683
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 1: the first look at one of the two dueling Pinocchio movies,

1684
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 1: and it looks so bad. It looks so ugly. Gary.

1685
01:47:02,120 --> 01:47:05,120
Speaker 1: They've they made him look way too much like the

1686
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 1: Disney animated Pinocchio. It looks like a Robot Chicken sketch.

1687
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 1: It literally looks like robot Chicken. And I mean, and

1688
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: as a former employee, I love robot Chicken. But that's

1689
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:17,960
Speaker 1: like this, this has like a billion dollar budget. Why

1690
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:20,760
Speaker 1: does it look like that? Why does it look like that?

1691
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:23,320
Speaker 1: And for more on that, you can go to the

1692
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:27,519
Speaker 1: Matreon in November for our month that we've already roped

1693
01:47:27,560 --> 01:47:32,400
Speaker 1: off to be the dueling Pinocchio's month, del Toro Versus Zamackis.

1694
01:47:32,640 --> 01:47:37,160
Speaker 1: Do we already know who's going to win? Obviously, Robert Zameckis,

1695
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:40,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what something happened, something happened that that happened,

1696
01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 1: and he's something a which put a curse on him

1697
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:47,760
Speaker 1: and now he's really bad at his job. But um, anyways,

1698
01:47:48,040 --> 01:47:52,880
Speaker 1: that didn't happen to Del Toro. All right, I'm going

1699
01:47:52,920 --> 01:47:54,639
Speaker 1: to give it two and a half nipples as well.

1700
01:47:55,800 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 1: I think that this movie pushes some boundaries an interesting ways.

1701
01:48:00,280 --> 01:48:03,240
Speaker 1: I think that it like actually kind of regresses the

1702
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:08,360
Speaker 1: princess genre in certain ways by giving Flynn so much agency.

1703
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:10,479
Speaker 1: I think that you could accomplish the same thing by

1704
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:15,720
Speaker 1: having Rapunzel. She should cut off rapunzelan action hero, she

1705
01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:17,800
Speaker 1: should cut off her own hair. But also it's like,

1706
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 1: did Princess Fiona not learn like Karate well trapped in

1707
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:25,439
Speaker 1: the tower? Yes, Like, I think that there were ways

1708
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 1: to even if you're going to have Flynn be a

1709
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:32,160
Speaker 1: bigger character. Okay, but like you know, there are ways

1710
01:48:32,439 --> 01:48:35,680
Speaker 1: to make Rapunzel more of an action character. If you

1711
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:38,680
Speaker 1: worry that there are demographics that aren't going to be

1712
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:42,000
Speaker 1: interested in a princess movie where the princess is not

1713
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:46,360
Speaker 1: action e make the princess even more actionally. I think

1714
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:48,760
Speaker 1: that they went partially that way with Rapunzel, but they

1715
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,240
Speaker 1: would always fall back on like Flynn had to be

1716
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:53,560
Speaker 1: validating that she was good at combat. He had to

1717
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:56,479
Speaker 1: validate that a pan was a decent weapon like he

1718
01:48:56,640 --> 01:49:00,479
Speaker 1: and he's the swashbuckler. Why couldn't have she been? She? Yeah,

1719
01:49:00,479 --> 01:49:02,519
Speaker 1: she had all the time in the world to learn

1720
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:06,280
Speaker 1: swashbuck I mean, it's like, and we can go back

1721
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 1: and forth on that because I was like, she couldn't

1722
01:49:07,960 --> 01:49:11,639
Speaker 1: have technically, but like whatever, Princess Fiona did it. Okay,

1723
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:14,519
Speaker 1: not to pin two women's again against each other again

1724
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:18,400
Speaker 1: two women? Okay, this has to be over. Okay, but

1725
01:49:18,520 --> 01:49:20,599
Speaker 1: I did like the movie. I think it's really sweet.

1726
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:24,439
Speaker 1: I would kill off the horse, so horse isn't getting

1727
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:27,240
Speaker 1: any nipples from me, that's for damn sure. Like how

1728
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:29,880
Speaker 1: your solution is kill the horse, not just like right

1729
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:32,439
Speaker 1: him out of the story. No, I think he should

1730
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:35,280
Speaker 1: fall off a cliff. In the first two minutes. He

1731
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:37,760
Speaker 1: does fall out of a very high up tree, but

1732
01:49:37,880 --> 01:49:41,599
Speaker 1: somehow survives. But he's fine. I was watching some horses yesterday.

1733
01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:44,360
Speaker 1: Don't ask as well. I was just spying on a

1734
01:49:44,360 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 1: little ranch and I was watching some horses rough housing

1735
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:50,000
Speaker 1: and it was honestly very scary. I'm becoming a horse

1736
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:51,760
Speaker 1: girl and thinking about taking a horse lessons, so of

1737
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 1: course I'm going to be observing horses. Wow. I did

1738
01:49:55,360 --> 01:49:59,040
Speaker 1: see the movie Nope recently, so it's a big year

1739
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:03,840
Speaker 1: for horaces. I can't explain why, but something is going on.

1740
01:50:04,160 --> 01:50:07,760
Speaker 1: Horses are back in a big way. Um. I saw

1741
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:09,920
Speaker 1: Nope for the second time yesterday and I was like,

1742
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:14,800
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, horses they're back. They're back, Um, but not

1743
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 1: this one. This one should die. Um. I do not

1744
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,880
Speaker 1: share this feeling, but go on. I'm pro horse. I'm

1745
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 1: anti Maximus having a whole ass arc when Rapunzel doesn't

1746
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:30,360
Speaker 1: even get to kill the villain. Hello, Mr, So okay,

1747
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 1: one nipple to Rapunzel. I'm also going to give one

1748
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 1: nipple to Gothel because she's a solid villain and I

1749
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:40,160
Speaker 1: think that there should have been a little more done

1750
01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 1: with her. If we're gonna flesh out trophy characters, let's

1751
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:47,080
Speaker 1: flesh them all out. Don't go halfway, And I'll give

1752
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:52,320
Speaker 1: my last half nipple to what was the chameleon's name, Pascal.

1753
01:50:52,800 --> 01:50:56,160
Speaker 1: I loved Pascal, um, so I'm gonna give it to him.

1754
01:50:56,479 --> 01:51:01,680
Speaker 1: And oh last thing. Obviously this movie not obviously, but

1755
01:51:01,720 --> 01:51:04,560
Speaker 1: you could guess that this movie was written and directed

1756
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:10,920
Speaker 1: by men. Men, men, men, men, men, so many men. Um. However,

1757
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:13,960
Speaker 1: one of the there's two male directors, as there usually

1758
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:17,519
Speaker 1: is on animated movies, UM, but one of them, Byron Howard,

1759
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 1: is an openly gay man. UM. He has been out

1760
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:25,679
Speaker 1: for many years, which is pretty huge in the entertainment

1761
01:51:25,720 --> 01:51:29,800
Speaker 1: industry of that time in general, and also in animation

1762
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:33,160
Speaker 1: as well, because animation is double prejudiced in a lot

1763
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:35,120
Speaker 1: of ways. I don't know why, but I know it's true.

1764
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:41,519
Speaker 1: And he also would go on to direct Zootopia and

1765
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:44,559
Speaker 1: um Encanto, which we will be covering on this show

1766
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:50,600
Speaker 1: rather soon. UM. So you know there's that. Also Dan Fogelman,

1767
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:53,960
Speaker 1: who wrote the screenplay and I think had a hand

1768
01:51:54,120 --> 01:52:00,320
Speaker 1: in UM casting. Mandy Moore later created This is Us,

1769
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:03,640
Speaker 1: which Maddie Moore is the leader. So without Tangled, we

1770
01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:06,920
Speaker 1: wouldn't have that really famous show I've never watched. Wow,

1771
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:11,040
Speaker 1: the same makes you think in conclusion, this movie is

1772
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 1: pretty good. I think if you're just watching it to

1773
01:52:13,479 --> 01:52:16,600
Speaker 1: watch a movie, I really like it, Like it's a

1774
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:19,160
Speaker 1: fun rob of a movie. If you're watching it for

1775
01:52:19,479 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 1: factal cast purposes, it's a real mixed bag. But as

1776
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:25,599
Speaker 1: a movie, I think it's really fun and I would

1777
01:52:25,600 --> 01:52:28,200
Speaker 1: probably watch I think I will watch it again. Same. Yeah,

1778
01:52:28,439 --> 01:52:32,920
Speaker 1: I concur so here we are ruining another movie. It's

1779
01:52:33,040 --> 01:52:35,960
Speaker 1: kind of our thing. But also if you like it

1780
01:52:36,200 --> 01:52:38,559
Speaker 1: and you just want to watch it for fun, that's

1781
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:45,599
Speaker 1: in the future. UM. So that's Tangled. We hope that

1782
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:48,320
Speaker 1: everyone who's been requesting it for over half a decade,

1783
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 1: UM is happy. I hope you're happy. I've actually kind

1784
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,680
Speaker 1: of probably waited to do it because I feel like

1785
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:57,800
Speaker 1: we are we are, we now have better you're better equipped. Yeah.

1786
01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:01,880
Speaker 1: I could see a twenty seventeen version of this episode that,

1787
01:53:02,120 --> 01:53:08,360
Speaker 1: UM I would stand Yeah totally. So, as always, thank

1788
01:53:08,360 --> 01:53:11,120
Speaker 1: you for listening. We really hope you enjoyed this. Um,

1789
01:53:11,160 --> 01:53:15,679
Speaker 1: we've got an exciting let's say rogues gallery of movies

1790
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:19,200
Speaker 1: and guests coming up in the fall. We're sort of

1791
01:53:19,280 --> 01:53:22,559
Speaker 1: laying out our fall schedule and it's exciting. You're gonna

1792
01:53:22,880 --> 01:53:30,920
Speaker 1: be smiling, laughing, crying, learning, gasp. Also very soon on

1793
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 1: the Matreon that saw episode that we kept hinting at,

1794
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:40,240
Speaker 1: So damn scoot on over there too, Patreon dot com

1795
01:53:40,400 --> 01:53:42,600
Speaker 1: slash specktel Cat. I think we are kind of in

1796
01:53:42,800 --> 01:53:47,479
Speaker 1: our golden era of the Matreon right now. Um, we're

1797
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:50,800
Speaker 1: really turning out some bangers I mean here, and they're good.

1798
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:55,680
Speaker 1: Golden hair, golden standard, Golden era boom. Look forward to

1799
01:53:55,720 --> 01:53:59,479
Speaker 1: the Pinocchio Wars over there and all of your favorite

1800
01:53:59,479 --> 01:54:04,120
Speaker 1: movies and past over here on the main feed. Thank

1801
01:54:04,120 --> 01:54:06,519
Speaker 1: you so much for listening. You can catch us on

1802
01:54:06,800 --> 01:54:12,559
Speaker 1: the worldwide web on Instagram and Twitter at Bechtel Cast. Um.

1803
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,439
Speaker 1: As Caitlin just said, you can join our Matreon five

1804
01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:18,000
Speaker 1: bucks a month for to bonus episodes and a backlog

1805
01:54:18,040 --> 01:54:23,240
Speaker 1: of over one hundred episodes. Hello, wow, impressive much Now

1806
01:54:23,280 --> 01:54:26,680
Speaker 1: that's what I call content. Um that's five bucks a

1807
01:54:26,720 --> 01:54:31,200
Speaker 1: month over at Patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. And

1808
01:54:31,240 --> 01:54:35,000
Speaker 1: then of course you've got our merch at t public

1809
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:38,120
Speaker 1: dot com. Slash the Bechtel cast, where you can get

1810
01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:43,560
Speaker 1: such classics as wet scabs or dry scaps. I mean

1811
01:54:44,120 --> 01:54:48,560
Speaker 1: team Beetle Juice. Need we say more? And maybe and

1812
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:51,440
Speaker 1: and we I this fall, I am going to be

1813
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,920
Speaker 1: making some new merch designs for the holiday season. Not

1814
01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:57,560
Speaker 1: holiday themes, but for you to purchase for the holiday season.

1815
01:54:57,680 --> 01:55:02,920
Speaker 1: And so you know, the wheels are turning in income. Um,

1816
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:08,000
Speaker 1: that's my idea. Maybe think about that. Uh as far

1817
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 1: as I've gotten um, but you know, mensa, we'll come

1818
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:15,120
Speaker 1: up with something. I have a master's degree. We we

1819
01:55:15,120 --> 01:55:19,280
Speaker 1: we got this, mensa, master's degree. It's gonna it's gonna

1820
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:24,600
Speaker 1: come together. Um, okay, A game over, you know, Oh

1821
01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:27,720
Speaker 1: my gosh, okay, not that, not that Tangled isn't a

1822
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:30,480
Speaker 1: great movie, But no movie ends better than Saw One

1823
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:35,760
Speaker 1: Game Over, Sam, Bye bye bye