Speaker 1: First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
Speaker 1: that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all about them
Speaker 1: high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
Speaker 1: our comic girl sharing for the drama Queens Girl Fashion,
Speaker 1: but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us. Girl Drama,
Speaker 1: Queens Drama, Queen's Drama. Queen's Drama drawn MC Queen's Drama
Speaker 1: Queen's Guys back to such an emotional episode, Season four,
Speaker 1: episode ten, Songs to Love and Die By. It originally
Speaker 1: aired December six, two thousand six. It was like kind
Speaker 1: of the first time we mentioned the holidays, also, which
Speaker 1: was cute. Inside of a sad container, Lucas received an
Speaker 1: unlikely you and your containers supposedly, didn't you know I
Speaker 1: love a container. Hayley's life and the life of her
Speaker 1: unborn child are threatened when she experiences serious complications with
Speaker 1: her pregnancy yet because she got viciously hit on a
Speaker 1: car that's not in the synopsis, but it feels important
Speaker 1: to say. And Nathan wrestles with the guilt and consequences
Speaker 1: of his dealings with Dante. Dan tries to make amends
Speaker 1: for Keith's murder, and Peyton and Brooke try to patch
Speaker 1: up their differences. Who I loved this episode. This is
Speaker 1: one another one of those that made me love our
Speaker 1: show so much. I don't know, I don't know, yes,
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely, there's a couple of scenes I would
Speaker 1: like to step fire to the episode itself if we
Speaker 1: could have had control, and like, because by this point,
Speaker 1: for our friends at home, you've probably heard us talk
Speaker 1: about how there was always something that wound up getting cut,
Speaker 1: like really important parts of scenes, really important scenes, because
Speaker 1: our episodes were always a little overwritten, and then we
Speaker 1: would lose stuff that was so good. And yeah, there
Speaker 1: were there were two scenes I would have loved to
Speaker 1: throw on the cutter room floor and burned. I choose
Speaker 1: it's almost like about somebody's ego. But the episode itself
Speaker 1: was beautiful and like, there was really something about the
Speaker 1: way that having Keith having this you know, world between
Speaker 1: worlds for Keith and Lucas created a space to really
Speaker 1: talk about the things these kids have been learning over
Speaker 1: these verse four years. And you know, we talked about
Speaker 1: how in the last episode it felt like the pilot
Speaker 1: was inside of of four oh nine, and now here
Speaker 1: we are in four ten and we're really talking about
Speaker 1: like what we've learned, how we show up, who we
Speaker 1: all the seasonssodes and I thought it was really beautiful
Speaker 1: and I thought, I mean, a what a dream to
Speaker 1: have Craig Schuffer back Had. Craig and Chad are so
Speaker 1: good together. It's so real. He does such a nice
Speaker 1: job leading this episode because Had does vulnerability really well.
Speaker 1: He does sort of that lost little boy really well.
Speaker 1: You're endeared to him. Um. He he. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he was working out or what, but he looked
Speaker 1: like his skin was glowing. He looked really great in
Speaker 1: this episode in particular too, um. And he just really
Speaker 1: opened up like it was so nice to see him
Speaker 1: as an actor. And Lucas just kind of unzipped the
Speaker 1: chest cavity and open up the heart and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: here I am, I'm I'm ready to explore all of
Speaker 1: this um, which definitely wasn't easy for Lucas to have
Speaker 1: to walk through all those things and um, but I
Speaker 1: loved it. We needed that, We need that as a guide,
Speaker 1: and it feels like we get back to who Lucas
Speaker 1: was in the beginning. You know. The we talked a
Speaker 1: lot like in season one about how the writers swung
Speaker 1: him into like bad boy girls like they did. All
Speaker 1: this stuff that, you know, knowing who are writers were
Speaker 1: made is all pretty uncomfortable, like, oh wow, we didn't
Speaker 1: even realize what was being modeled for teenage boys. And
Speaker 1: now it's like we're coming home. He feels familiar and
Speaker 1: he's been growing back into this person obviously for such
Speaker 1: a long time. But it's cool that the contrast, it's
Speaker 1: almost like they realized who let him go back there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's emotional stuff is what works so beautiful. We catch
Speaker 1: so much because we're not like Lucas. Look as look
Speaker 1: at I get m all the time. I chi don't
Speaker 1: talk about Lucas enough to be clear, Lucas in this
Speaker 1: phase of bouncing between chicks and change in his mind
Speaker 1: who he's in love with is not ideal. It's not interesting.
Speaker 1: But if Lucas were vulnerable with these girls the way
Speaker 1: he is with his mom and the way he is
Speaker 1: with Keith, oh my god, he would be yes, just
Speaker 1: so insatiable, like like it. He would be so hot
Speaker 1: if he could talk to Brooke this way, and that
Speaker 1: was Brookes's whole thing. She's like, you don't let me in.
Speaker 1: I know it's in there somewhere. The audience gets to
Speaker 1: see you do it with other people. I don't get
Speaker 1: to see you do it. It's sexiously. This kind of
Speaker 1: made me wish that Lucas and Peyton had not had
Speaker 1: that kiss at the Stage championship game, that that moment
Speaker 1: she walked away, it would have just because in real
Speaker 1: life that happens all the time. You let them, you
Speaker 1: let the big moment pass you by. You don't you
Speaker 1: don't take the risk in the split second that you
Speaker 1: have it and it goes away and you're like, shoot,
Speaker 1: am I ever going to get that chance again? And
Speaker 1: I wish that they hadn't had that kiss because this
Speaker 1: would have been such a because also in the last
Speaker 1: episode you were saying it felt like such a quick switch.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have been so nice to have all of this
Speaker 1: lead up that, Yeah, like you're saying, every time he
Speaker 1: looks in Peyton's eyes, he realizes that he made a
Speaker 1: difference in her life and that they're kind of made
Speaker 1: for each other. And then have him wake up, Now
Speaker 1: we have something else to look forward to, just building
Speaker 1: that anticipation. Yeah, like what if he'd woken up from
Speaker 1: this and then it's you have to be confetti guy, Confetti,
Speaker 1: don't give us Come on, that's even more romantic. That's
Speaker 1: like devastating that they almost kiss in the confetti, but
Speaker 1: then the moment doesn't happen. Better sweet in that moment
Speaker 1: where you just like, I'm not ready to have this coversation. No,
Speaker 1: but it is. It's so cool, like that would have
Speaker 1: been great joy. You're right, but I will say I
Speaker 1: just I can't. I can't let go of how much
Speaker 1: I love seeing and you said it, seeing that the vulnerability,
Speaker 1: seeing that the way that you show up matters for people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's such a beautiful lesson. And you
Speaker 1: see everybody showing up in this episode, in his twisted way,
Speaker 1: Dan is showing up for his son and trying to
Speaker 1: pay penance about his guilt, even though says I don't
Speaker 1: know if we can ever go back. She shows up
Speaker 1: for Peyton and goes to find her and does work
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, talking to Lucas saying I need you
Speaker 1: to take care of my best friend, and unbeknownst to Brook,
Speaker 1: Peyton is showing up for her. With Haley, everyone is
Speaker 1: really trying to show up. Peyton even shows up just
Speaker 1: by being vulnerable and asking Brooke, can we be friends again? Peyton,
Speaker 1: who usually just does everything on her own, she doesn't
Speaker 1: ask a lot of people for help. To see her
Speaker 1: asking for what she needs was really nice, and it's
Speaker 1: nice that there's an honesty. It's so clear that these
Speaker 1: two girls love each other so much and they're they're
Speaker 1: just in a bad place. And it's nice to see
Speaker 1: people who will show up and say I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I will be here. There's so many good lessons
Speaker 1: in this and Keith offers the space for that. And
Speaker 1: when you think about it, in our earlier seasons, when
Speaker 1: Lucas does lose his and he falls into the popular
Speaker 1: tropes and all the things as Nathan's wouldcome in the
Speaker 1: good guy leaving the popular tropes behind, and Lucas is
Speaker 1: falling into them, it's Keith who who challenges him and says,
Speaker 1: who are you? What kind of person do you want
Speaker 1: to be? And now even though he's gone, it's Keith
Speaker 1: who's saying to Lucas, look who you are, look at
Speaker 1: what you're being. A good person has done. It's so special.
Speaker 1: It's weird. You know, when when we first did the
Speaker 1: pilot of this show, they were supposed to be this
Speaker 1: kind of otherworldly element where Whitey is describing everything going
Speaker 1: on to Camilla, his dead wife. I missed him in
Speaker 1: this episode, by the way. Yeah, that would have been
Speaker 1: good to have him in the hospital anyway, Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 1: So there's always kind of been this haunting thread in
Speaker 1: our show that they were really trying to get to,
Speaker 1: you know, and they got there with this episode. You know,
Speaker 1: it turns out that it's not Whitey, it's Keith. Is
Speaker 1: that voice that's in everybody's ear and it is watching everything,
Speaker 1: And part of me wonders if there was some remorse
Speaker 1: on the executive level about being, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: impulsive about getting rid of Craig. You know, he like
Speaker 1: you don't know what you have till it's gone. And
Speaker 1: Keith definitely left a void. We needed that salt of
Speaker 1: the earth, paternal voice. And Keith is the one who
Speaker 1: allows for Lucas to grow into a version of him, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, the Lucas Keith dynamic is so special, and
Speaker 1: the Craig and Chad dynamic is so good, and so
Speaker 1: not only do we as viewers feel the void of Keith,
Speaker 1: but there's a void for work that Chad gets to do.
Speaker 1: It's Craig. All of a sudden, that's gone and you
Speaker 1: get him back for an episode and you go, oh
Speaker 1: my god. It's not to say that it's not so
Speaker 1: tremendously special to watch Lucas and Karen. Of course it is.
Speaker 1: But there's something really magical about Yeah, we needed him
Speaker 1: that triangle and you know, they lopped a side of
Speaker 1: it off and it was it was he felt for
Speaker 1: a really long time. Yeah, I agree. I thought it
Speaker 1: was interesting watching Dan in this episode because it made
Speaker 1: me think about it's interesting seeing someone wrestle for their soul.
Speaker 1: He's made such terrible choices throughout his life and done
Speaker 1: it in a way where he's clearly built himself, in
Speaker 1: his own mind into a person who is above I
Speaker 1: guess above moral reproach, who also feels that he can
Speaker 1: get away with a lot of things, and um, life is,
Speaker 1: life owes him things, and so he's built this pattern
Speaker 1: of behavior, but he's never done he's never crossed over
Speaker 1: the line. Like I think a lot of us look
Speaker 1: at our lives and we're like, well, okay, I may
Speaker 1: do this and that, but I don't do this or that.
Speaker 1: Flawed but I'm not a sociopath, right, And uh, there
Speaker 1: was a couple of things that I thought were interesting.
Speaker 1: One I heard something this weekend that was it was
Speaker 1: inside every seed I posted on my Instagram. Inside every
Speaker 1: seat is an entire forest. Um inside. Basically, it's the
Speaker 1: possibility of you know, any small thing can grow into
Speaker 1: an entire thing. So that could be uh, your character development.
Speaker 1: The good things that you do could be lies, gossip,
Speaker 1: it could be anything. And the little seed that was
Speaker 1: in Dan that grew into all this this forest of
Speaker 1: horrible behavior, and then now he's crossing over into murderer.
Speaker 1: And it's like watching him wrestle with the idea that oh,
Speaker 1: I'm okay doing like dabbling in all these little bad
Speaker 1: moral things, but that doesn't really matter. And then he's like,
Speaker 1: maybe I can get away with murder too. He does it,
Speaker 1: and now he's in a real legitimate battle for his
Speaker 1: soul in a way that he never acknowledged before. Sorry
Speaker 1: if that was long winded. Thought it was interesting. I
Speaker 1: don't have a conclusion about it. I just thought it
Speaker 1: was so interesting the moment where Nathan says to him, Dad,
Speaker 1: you didn't kill anyone, and Dan had to just sit
Speaker 1: in it. Not only did I kill someone, I killed
Speaker 1: my brother yea, yeah, but he's such a cool This
Speaker 1: is why I love Dan because even though we love
Speaker 1: to hate him, there there is something so true about
Speaker 1: the fact that we are all human and we are
Speaker 1: all capable of wonderful and terrible things. And it's it's
Speaker 1: a mistake, I think, to look at ourselves and go,
Speaker 1: it's okay, I only do these things and not those things,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like anything can turn into
Speaker 1: anything else. You have to be careful absolutely. And what
Speaker 1: I loved was in that scene I wrote it down
Speaker 1: when Nathan says, you didn't kill anybody, and Dan says,
Speaker 1: in many ways, I'm right where I should be. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's trying to tell Nathan he's at peace with this,
Speaker 1: and Nathan can't understand because he doesn't know the truth.
Speaker 1: And it's so it's it's riveting to watch James and
Speaker 1: Paul together in this episode, and it's riveting watching Paul
Speaker 1: and Craig in that scene in the jail into it,
Speaker 1: and Craig there was something like so on fire in
Speaker 1: his life saying those words, you know, as Keith to Dan,
Speaker 1: I forgive you and knowing that it would eat him alive.
Speaker 1: And it was like, oh, I actually caught myself holding
Speaker 1: my breath during the scene. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm wanna pass out because I was just like frozen
Speaker 1: watching the two of that. It was really I don't know,
Speaker 1: I was viewer. It was like, very well. I liked.
Speaker 1: I like that little bit of territorial vibe that Keith
Speaker 1: was putting out where he was like, she's never gonna
Speaker 1: love you, Danny, Like cool, I've been haunting you. I've
Speaker 1: been little boy Keith to haunt you for all the
Speaker 1: other stuff. But now you're coming from a woman who's
Speaker 1: carrying my baby. Keith is here now and I'm not happy,
Speaker 1: And here my bloody eyeballs. You know, I'm terrifying. I
Speaker 1: loved here my bloody eyeballs. Yeah. No, he got he
Speaker 1: got like spooky, he got scary. And so that duality
Speaker 1: of ghost Keith, where it's like I can be the
Speaker 1: cute little brother that's just like kind of irritating, or
Speaker 1: I could also be you know, really terrifying and you're
Speaker 1: confined to the cell. There's nothing you can do to
Speaker 1: get away from me right now. What I love too
Speaker 1: was the use of our sets. In this episode, we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that, talk about John as John. Ashtre did
Speaker 1: such a good job. And I said this when we
Speaker 1: were watching the show, and I just feel like I
Speaker 1: should say it now because we mean it as a compliment.
Speaker 1: Like I think we were all at a bit of
Speaker 1: a stage. You know, we were four years in. There
Speaker 1: were like things that we rolled our eyes about, and
Speaker 1: like Ashra and Chad were always setting fireworks off and
Speaker 1: getting people in trouble, and we were judging about it
Speaker 1: because I'm sure so much younger than any other director.
Speaker 1: He was much more of a peer. He was like
Speaker 1: if you had a slightly older brother in college, and
Speaker 1: and like we loved him, but we I don't know
Speaker 1: that we knew what a good director he was because
Speaker 1: he was like a prankster because he was a boy.
Speaker 1: He was like like they were like cranking and we
Speaker 1: all were like, oh my god, quit keeping us at work,
Speaker 1: like because you guys were sitting stink bombs off in
Speaker 1: the stages. Like and now watching back at this episode, y'all,
Speaker 1: the three of us were just like blown away. This
Speaker 1: is really the cuts, the way that they did these transitions,
Speaker 1: Like Ethan, you know Dan with his head bowed down
Speaker 1: in jail, and then it perfectly morphs into Nathan with
Speaker 1: his head bowed at the hospital. The way that all
Speaker 1: of these sets opened into other sets, hospital elevators to
Speaker 1: the quad, like nobody had ever shot our show like this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so well done. So really the moral of
Speaker 1: the story is, in case John Asher's listening, just please
Speaker 1: know that we're giving you all of your flowers. And
Speaker 1: we're very impressed. Shut He always takes risks. I love
Speaker 1: that about him As a director, you know that they
Speaker 1: don't always pay off. Like every artist, you get on
Speaker 1: stage sometimes and you bomb, But if you're taking the risk,
Speaker 1: at least you know what works and what doesn't work.
Speaker 1: And we had a lot of directors who came in
Speaker 1: and just kept playing it safe because they wanted to
Speaker 1: keep getting more jobs. And there's certain you know, you
Speaker 1: have to keep a consistency of the tone of the
Speaker 1: show and things like that. So I liked that they
Speaker 1: brought him in for an episode where you could take
Speaker 1: risks and be creative because they knew that he would.
Speaker 1: He always takes the risk. They knew they could trust
Speaker 1: him to do that, and I mean, I kid you not,
Speaker 1: when that hospital elevator door opened onto the quad. We
Speaker 1: all gasped. It's Wizard of Oz. It was so cool.
Speaker 1: And then whatever set turned into the high school hallway,
Speaker 1: Like everything was just so freaking cool and well done.
Speaker 1: And it really didn't make me even you know, not
Speaker 1: just watching our show for our podcast, but as an
Speaker 1: actor and as a director, it really made me feel inspired.
Speaker 1: It was a nice reminder of what's possible. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: there's a subtle thing that happens in your brain when
Speaker 1: the rules get thrown out, and it puts you on
Speaker 1: a subconscious edge, you know. And so when we see
Speaker 1: the nurses passed through Peyton's bedroom, and it's like because
Speaker 1: because we made the comment, it was like the lighting
Speaker 1: was the same, you know, like nothing was off in
Speaker 1: Peyton's room. The boys were just kind of being voyers
Speaker 1: watching Peyton and Brooke have that moment. And then these
Speaker 1: nurses walked through and that's weird, and we fall of
Speaker 1: the ones head and all of a sudden, we're in
Speaker 1: the hospital and really, like from those early moments on,
Speaker 1: we know as an audience that there are no rules,
Speaker 1: that literally anything can happen, and so you're glued to
Speaker 1: it because if you miss it. There's no way to
Speaker 1: predict what's going to happen, um and that stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: that's fun that. I think everyone from our hair and
Speaker 1: makeup team to our a d staff, to our camera operators,
Speaker 1: like everyone got a real kick out of doing something
Speaker 1: really different. And this is really when you know we
Speaker 1: We've been saying it for a while now. Season four
Speaker 1: is when we started jumping the shark all over the
Speaker 1: place because it was like, we played by the rules before,
Speaker 1: no one paid attention to us. So if we throw
Speaker 1: them out, maybe maybe that's who we are now. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's really cool to see, you know, not
Speaker 1: everybody gets to be on a show for as long
Speaker 1: as we did, and it's really cool to see the
Speaker 1: risks taken because this risk paid off and was so
Speaker 1: emotionally charged and touching and thought provoking, and some of
Speaker 1: the risks when we would jump the shark, we're just
Speaker 1: so dumb. We did have a moment like that in
Speaker 1: this episode at the grave, guys, the morphing. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: talk about the more. Well, let's talk about the woman.
Speaker 1: Where did you so you found this woman? You said
Speaker 1: she wasn't cast? Yeah, yeah, this was one of those
Speaker 1: cool like we live in a small town in Wilmington's
Speaker 1: kind of deals. Um. When we shot at the record store,
Speaker 1: that was towards the beginning of the episode, um, and
Speaker 1: like the beginning of the eight the beginning of our
Speaker 1: eight days of filming. And they hadn't cast this woman
Speaker 1: to play me yet, and so casting had sent a
Speaker 1: bunch of pictures to John Asher to like, look at
Speaker 1: these people, see if they look off like Hillary. And
Speaker 1: he was going through the pictures on set and I'm
Speaker 1: looking at them and like some were like, oh um,
Speaker 1: this isn't a very flattering option. Okay, you know, like
Speaker 1: you're looking at people that are supposed to look like
Speaker 1: old you. And so we're going through and it's like
Speaker 1: some are okay, some are, but like nothing was really hitting.
Speaker 1: And there was a crowd that had gathered outside and
Speaker 1: there was this spicy woman, like spicy and she I
Speaker 1: think she actually had like red hair, um, and she
Speaker 1: was outside with her husband, like wearing go go boots
Speaker 1: and a mini skirt and was just being like, look cool,
Speaker 1: and she's like what's going on here? And you know,
Speaker 1: I was like outside probably smoking or something, and I
Speaker 1: started talking to her and I become fast friends with
Speaker 1: this woman, and I was like, are you going to
Speaker 1: be here for a couple of days? And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm here for the whole week. And I went inside.
Speaker 1: I was like, can this woman be me? And we
Speaker 1: were the same exact height and we had the same
Speaker 1: exact eye color. And I hate that they put that
Speaker 1: wig on her because she was like a super sexy
Speaker 1: woman and they put this full wig on her. But
Speaker 1: I just had a connection with this lady. And that
Speaker 1: was fun about having John as a director because it
Speaker 1: was like, can it be her? And yeah, why not
Speaker 1: make it her? And so it was cool. She came
Speaker 1: and hung out in there and makeup trailer as they
Speaker 1: dulled her up, and then my body had to morph
Speaker 1: or her body morphed into mind. It was why an
Speaker 1: episode filled with so many gorgeous transitions. And by the way,
Speaker 1: I said it a minute ago, when they layered James
Speaker 1: and Paul over each other and did the transition, it worked.
Speaker 1: Why couldn't they just have like done a fade from
Speaker 1: a plate shot of her into you. The moreph the
Speaker 1: like full Transformers moment. It was such an emotional scene
Speaker 1: and it made us all burst out laughing you said it.
Speaker 1: You were like, well, that took me out of any
Speaker 1: experience I was having. Yeah, I cackled, I mean for me,
Speaker 1: and I did it. Yeah, why didn't they have her
Speaker 1: bend down to put the flowers in the long black
Speaker 1: coat and then stand up, stand up, you know, in
Speaker 1: a long black coat. But I said, Peyton wears no
Speaker 1: coats in this episode. It's clear that I'm freezing, freezing,
Speaker 1: freezing episode. I couldn't used the coat at the graveyard.
Speaker 1: That's because our costume designer was gone and we had
Speaker 1: no nobody, so just fell through the cracks. We're looking
Speaker 1: to get her at the house. First of all, when
Speaker 1: we leave the state championship, we all have our full
Speaker 1: cheer uniforms. We have the zip ups and the pants
Speaker 1: under our strap. But then magically, when I come to you,
Speaker 1: I have no pants under my miniskirt. You have no sweatshirt.
Speaker 1: And we leave the house and go to the hospital,
Speaker 1: and you don't grab a sweatshirt, a coat, a purse, nothing, anything.
Speaker 1: You're just standing there in your little tank top looking
Speaker 1: so cool. I said. I was like, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, but the whole the whole episode for me,
Speaker 1: Peyton doesn't know to do with her hands, like there
Speaker 1: it is just an exercise, and like where do I
Speaker 1: put my arms? And there's that moment in the hospital
Speaker 1: when Brooke and Peyton come in and Nathan sitting in
Speaker 1: the lobby and he leaves and you and I don't
Speaker 1: know what to do, and we like a sort of
Speaker 1: hug but also not well because it's like our instinct
Speaker 1: is to hug each other and then we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: which we're mad, so I'll just awkwardly grab your hands
Speaker 1: and lean into your body. Watched. I thought it was
Speaker 1: so realistic and funny. That's the biggest But by the ways, okay,
Speaker 1: hold on. As funny as that is, Like, we do
Speaker 1: need to say something because what leads to that moment
Speaker 1: between us is not funny at all. It's Nathan literally
Speaker 1: saying he wished he died in that water, and Joy,
Speaker 1: I think you said it while we were watching the episode,
Speaker 1: like we are not addressing the trauma that this young
Speaker 1: man has been put through repeatedly all yeah, he he
Speaker 1: keeps saying I should have died, I wish I died.
Speaker 1: Like this is heavy, heavy stuff. Yeah, Hillary, you brought
Speaker 1: this up several episodes ago. It was probably like a
Speaker 1: couple of months ago, but that's it was when he
Speaker 1: was in the race car accident and nobody was really
Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh, Nathan's going through a hard time. Uh,
Speaker 1: nobody was naming it. And then he does it again here,
Speaker 1: and then he does it again again on the bridge here. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it bothered me that nobody was really dealing with that. Well.
Speaker 1: I think also at this time, I feel like there
Speaker 1: was always like like there was something feminine about teenage suicide.
Speaker 1: You know, like no one ever would think that like
Speaker 1: the jock, the you know, the captain of the basketball
Speaker 1: team or whatever, would be suicidal. But Nathan says, over
Speaker 1: and over and over again, guys, I want to die. Guys,
Speaker 1: I want to die. Hayley left me. I'm a mess.
Speaker 1: My parents are a mess. I'm going to take all
Speaker 1: these drugs. I'm gonna like this kid has been on
Speaker 1: suicide Watch since season one, and no one is calling CPS,
Speaker 1: no one's calling the school counselor, no one's doing anything.
Speaker 1: They're just like, well, you know, no one's taken him
Speaker 1: to therapy. Nobody, and to your point, nobody's naming it.
Speaker 1: And I think at the time, it was such a
Speaker 1: big deal to even see a boy on TV talk
Speaker 1: about his feelings that people were like wow, and nobody
Speaker 1: was taking it the next step farther and saying this
Speaker 1: is a cry for help. What this person is saying
Speaker 1: is so Nathan was really the one that needed the
Speaker 1: journey to see what his impact in life has been
Speaker 1: and matters. I mean, if we're really going to break
Speaker 1: it down that that is probably what was needed. But
Speaker 1: I like the way they did it. I just like,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this now going my gosh, I wish
Speaker 1: there was some way Nathan could have been incorporated into that,
Speaker 1: or maybe that's his journey over the next few episodes.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. He had that nice episode a few
Speaker 1: a few back when Chad wasn't around, like when Lucas
Speaker 1: wasn't on the basketball team, and the whole episode focused
Speaker 1: on Nathan and he was like in a winning moment
Speaker 1: and it was fun to watch. It was fun to
Speaker 1: watch him like man up um. But they take him
Speaker 1: through these really man at highs and lows that are
Speaker 1: exhausting as an adult. You know, the the idea that
Speaker 1: it's a kid that's navigating this kind of Yeah, like
Speaker 1: the huge difference between the two feelings. You know, this
Speaker 1: kid grew up in an unstable, abusive household. It would
Speaker 1: track ye, his dad was obsessed with the highs and
Speaker 1: when it wasn't high. We're going to need to have
Speaker 1: a therapist on the show at some point just to
Speaker 1: diagnoque all the characters. But actually it didn't happen in
Speaker 1: the nine years of the show. We should do it
Speaker 1: for our friends at home. UM, we would imagine that
Speaker 1: there are some clinical psychologists and therapists among you. Um,
Speaker 1: if you are, will you send us a d M
Speaker 1: at our show Instagram because we really do want to
Speaker 1: have somebody come and talk about um where we just
Speaker 1: weren't going in oh six, because we're ready to go now.
Speaker 1: We love talking about therapy. Something that's an issue that's
Speaker 1: raised in this episode that I don't know that it's
Speaker 1: really answered, but it is an interesting topic because Lucas
Speaker 1: brings it up of what's the point of being a
Speaker 1: good person of bad things happen? And it seems really
Speaker 1: applicable in our society today to the ideas that if
Speaker 1: you if you do the right things, if you kind
Speaker 1: of check the boxes and behaves the right certain ways
Speaker 1: that you'll earn the good things that happen in life,
Speaker 1: like good good things will happen for you if you
Speaker 1: do good things. Um. And it's interesting to see a
Speaker 1: teenager faced with the reality that there really are not
Speaker 1: any guarantees in life. And you you can be a
Speaker 1: wonderful person and still have lots of horrible things happen
Speaker 1: to you all the time. And you can be a
Speaker 1: really bad person and have lots of you know, circumstantially
Speaker 1: great things happen to you all the time. I Mean,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of people that we look at in the
Speaker 1: world and we're like, how does that person have so
Speaker 1: many quote unquote good things in their world when we
Speaker 1: know what a horrible person they are, or you know,
Speaker 1: vice versa the other way around, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: We have plenty of friends and people that we love.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure I've felt this way before in my life.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have to where you're like, I'm doing, like,
Speaker 1: aren't I a good person? Aren't I? Like? Haven't I
Speaker 1: earned like to not have all these horrible things just
Speaker 1: flooding at me over and over. Um, It's interesting to
Speaker 1: see a teenager wrestle with that that there's no guarantees. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think you know, we got that amazing, you
Speaker 1: know thread on Twitter from that writer who's been talking
Speaker 1: about the journey of this show. Um, you know, Joy,
Speaker 1: I know you you're off, but he he wrote this
Speaker 1: really beautiful article about the things we shared. And I
Speaker 1: know we talked last week about how it was so
Speaker 1: surprising to us that that was news because all the
Speaker 1: grown ups in the room told us we were being
Speaker 1: babies and it wasn't a big deal. Um, and now
Speaker 1: you hear the world go, wow, that's really up. That's
Speaker 1: a really big deal, and you go cool. So we
Speaker 1: were being gaslighted in two thousand sis when the word
Speaker 1: didn't exist. Great had a hunch, but everyone told us
Speaker 1: we were crazy. And you know, he wrote about how
Speaker 1: there are people who get upset that we talked about
Speaker 1: the experiences and the facts and like what didn't work
Speaker 1: and what was happening behind the scenes. And you know
Speaker 1: in some of the responses that Hall and I sentsence
Speaker 1: we're still on Twitter, you know, the it all boils
Speaker 1: down for me to thank you for seeing it and
Speaker 1: for being willing to really lean into that truth and
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about in this episode is like
Speaker 1: the good and the bad is inextricably linked. And we
Speaker 1: were talking to this writer about how look for everyone
Speaker 1: at home they have this hundred and eighty seven hours,
Speaker 1: the hundred and eighty seven episodes that we made over
Speaker 1: the course of nine years. We did it for a
Speaker 1: decade of our lives, all day, every day, seventeen hours
Speaker 1: a day. It's so much more complicated. The highs and
Speaker 1: the lows and the great moments that were mixed in
Speaker 1: with some really terrible ones that, by the way, are
Speaker 1: in this episode, Like it's that's real life. And I
Speaker 1: think I worry sometimes that the detriment of what we see,
Speaker 1: you know, the clean episode of television or what you're
Speaker 1: referencing joy when you look at, you know, what somebody's
Speaker 1: doing in life on Instagram and it looks really perfect,
Speaker 1: like it's all the edited moment versus you know, it's
Speaker 1: the one hour the forty three minute episode owed versus
Speaker 1: the eight seventeen hour days it took to make it.
Speaker 1: Like we see these compressions and we don't get the
Speaker 1: whole story. And maybe that's why we love episodes like
Speaker 1: this so much, because they go deeper into what's going
Speaker 1: on underneath. They get deeper into the idea of a
Speaker 1: whole story for people, For friends who say, I love you,
Speaker 1: but I can't be around you. I'll always be here
Speaker 1: for you, but I don't know if I'll ever feel
Speaker 1: the same way about you. Like, that's so much more
Speaker 1: real than what we get presented a lot of the times.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's the reason that episodes like this hit
Speaker 1: for us. And maybe it's the reason that some of
Speaker 1: these podcast episodes like trigger like a relief and a
Speaker 1: truth for a lot of people, because most people don't
Speaker 1: have these conversations publicly. Have you guys had you know,
Speaker 1: that's a good point about Brooke and Peyton, you know,
Speaker 1: saying maybe I don't know if I can have the
Speaker 1: same relationship with you as I did before and stuff.
Speaker 1: That's a conversation that's definitely happens a lot in romantic
Speaker 1: relationships and interactions. Have you guys had complicated friendships like
Speaker 1: that where you've had to have conversations like that before.
Speaker 1: I feel like it just doesn't happen a lot in friendships.
Speaker 1: People just kind of like fade. They just start like,
Speaker 1: I don't have the energy and they just fade out.
Speaker 1: I've drawn browndaries. Yeah, I mean, I've broken up with friends. Um,
Speaker 1: but do you have like the conversations and you really
Speaker 1: like wrestle it out with them or is it just
Speaker 1: sort of like there's just over time. Yeah. I mean
Speaker 1: I had a friend that was disinvited to my wedding
Speaker 1: ended up coming last minute, and because you guys talked
Speaker 1: about it, like we talked about it and then decided
Speaker 1: even after that, like it's not gonna work. It's just
Speaker 1: not gonna work. And we tried. We've been hanging onto
Speaker 1: something that doesn't exist anymore. And I don't I don't
Speaker 1: like your ethics, you don't like mine. We're good, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's a much longer process than we can present
Speaker 1: in a one hour TV show, especially if you're both
Speaker 1: really trying. Yeah, Um, but they're they're difficult. They're really
Speaker 1: in high school. That happens more than adulthood. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of because I feel like, yeah, in high school,
Speaker 1: your emotions run hot. I don't think I had it
Speaker 1: so much in high school, Like I went to school
Speaker 1: with fifty five girls entire class. I would have had
Speaker 1: it once a week in that environment, like you couldn't
Speaker 1: really have friend breakups because we're environment was so small.
Speaker 1: What was more what became more true for me was
Speaker 1: and I find this in cycles like I've I've definitely
Speaker 1: had this in romantic cycles, like I remember being young
Speaker 1: and being in a really terrible relationship, and then like
Speaker 1: in my like about ten years later in my early thirties,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I see what the universe is doing.
Speaker 1: You know, when you get presented with a challenge to
Speaker 1: see if you learned a lesson, that's what this is.
Speaker 1: I didn't learn it fast enough, but I see it,
Speaker 1: and that's growth. So it's us therapy cycle, you know.
Speaker 1: And I got a similar kind of a thing, you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: and how lucky we were that we had each other.
Speaker 1: But like guys, we got on TV really young, and
Speaker 1: I had friends from high school who were thrilled, you know, vocally,
Speaker 1: but emotionally very pissed, who wanted me to like take
Speaker 1: us to the big party or to the event, or
Speaker 1: get us into this thing, or get us tickets to
Speaker 1: this concert. So I would like go home to see
Speaker 1: my friends from home on the weekends, but then it
Speaker 1: would turn into this thing of like, oh, well, you
Speaker 1: just think and I'm like, I'm confused. Do you want
Speaker 1: me to call the people to go to the thing
Speaker 1: that you said you wanted to go to or does
Speaker 1: that make me an apple? Like? What what is this
Speaker 1: conversation we're having? And there was a gap of you know,
Speaker 1: I'd fly home on a Saturday, we'd all go out
Speaker 1: and do something fun. I'd come back to you guys
Speaker 1: on Sunday, and then by Thursday I'd get a call
Speaker 1: from my friend at home that everyone was pissed at me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not even there. Let's sucks happening.
Speaker 1: And what I had to realize in my mid twenties
Speaker 1: was that, you know, like Margot Robbie talked about this
Speaker 1: and I in Australia, I guess they call it tall
Speaker 1: poppy syndrome, that like, everyone's happy with your success until
Speaker 1: your your poppy gets taller than their's and then they
Speaker 1: want to cut you down. She gave us creator about it.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing as good a job, but I began
Speaker 1: to feel that that it was like we want, we
Speaker 1: want you to do well, but not in a way
Speaker 1: that makes us feel like we're not doing well. And
Speaker 1: then I went through a version of that again in
Speaker 1: my mid thirties with some friends where I had a
Speaker 1: girlfriend who I mean was like a sister to me,
Speaker 1: who I bet over backwards for who like I I
Speaker 1: would bring on jobs with me and like not take
Speaker 1: a fee so I could offer my fee to her
Speaker 1: to cover like the thing she was going through, like
Speaker 1: big stuff that I was like, I'm happy to do this.
Speaker 1: I'm in a position where I can do this, like
Speaker 1: let's go be out there together. And it took me
Speaker 1: some time to realize that that was like incredibly toxic,
Speaker 1: that I was being taken advantage of that I would
Speaker 1: take her on jobs with me, and then I found
Speaker 1: out she was trying to deal with the people I
Speaker 1: was working for behind my back and and like literally
Speaker 1: took a job out of my hands. That's horrible, by
Speaker 1: the way, But did you like confront her and have
Speaker 1: a conversation and like really hash it out or was
Speaker 1: it just like you know what was me was I
Speaker 1: We worked on having a conversation for a while and
Speaker 1: we would schedule something, and then she kept bailing, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if you're just ashamed
Speaker 1: of your behavior or if this is not a priority
Speaker 1: to you. But I'm done, like I've I've used up
Speaker 1: the runway, and what I see the writing on the
Speaker 1: wall for me, And I wrote her a letter and
Speaker 1: I wrote it all out, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is what has been happening, and when it's written out,
Speaker 1: it's pretty painful to read. And I have to own
Speaker 1: that when I love someone, I will often not look
Speaker 1: at their negative qualities. And I've played a part in this.
Speaker 1: I've allowed you to treat me this way, but I'm
Speaker 1: not going to do it anymore. And then it took
Speaker 1: months and then I got this like long apology letter
Speaker 1: back that essentially plays by him on everyone but her,
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, cool, I just don't have
Speaker 1: the bandwidth for it, Like I've done the work where
Speaker 1: I can be like, yeah, I really didn't like that
Speaker 1: I behaved this way and I reacted to you this
Speaker 1: way because of this, and you know whatever, it's not easy.
Speaker 1: But I was like, I'm just not I'm not here
Speaker 1: for like the excuses and and so it's interesting. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it can be easier to maybe
Speaker 1: stay in a romantic relationship that's not good for you
Speaker 1: because you love someone but honestly, I can see where
Speaker 1: I've done that in friendships too, because I want to
Speaker 1: believe in the people who have gotten into my heart.
Speaker 1: And what I've had to come to at this stage
Speaker 1: in my life is, yeah, there's some people who have
Speaker 1: burned me, but like the of I have with the
Speaker 1: people who love me is so special. Like I look
Speaker 1: at our friendships, I look at you know, I look
Speaker 1: at my best friends at home in l A, Like
Speaker 1: we would do anything for each other, like anything, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to have loved the wrong people less
Speaker 1: if it meant missing out on the level I have
Speaker 1: for the right people like this, But yeah, it blows
Speaker 1: when you like really get there. And it's quilt to
Speaker 1: see high school girls modeling on our show, this conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm going to show up for you, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm ever going to feel the same way
Speaker 1: about you. I'm like, damn, imagine if we had known
Speaker 1: how to do that when we were sixteen. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Well what I like about that scene because I remember
Speaker 1: shooting that scene like it was yesterday. Before we even
Speaker 1: watched the episode, I was like, remember the bridge, We're
Speaker 1: under the bridge, the bridge of the Bridge of Bridge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I have such strong memories of that because
Speaker 1: it was kind of a pain in the ask to
Speaker 1: get on that ledge, Like we had to like climb
Speaker 1: ladder and something. It was really cold and you have
Speaker 1: to like try to not fall over the front and
Speaker 1: break your neck. Yeah, yes, yeah, don't fall in. But
Speaker 1: what I liked about it is that Brook shows up
Speaker 1: and starts talking about everyone else. It's like Ellie, your mom, Haley, Lucas,
Speaker 1: let's talk about anything other than the elephant in the room.
Speaker 1: And Peyton just turns around and looks at her in
Speaker 1: the eyes and it's like you, the loss of you
Speaker 1: is killing me, and center's Brook. And so Peyton is
Speaker 1: like a friend a lot of the time. But she
Speaker 1: centers Brooke in a way that I know. I wish
Speaker 1: I had friends that would do that sometimes, you know,
Speaker 1: where it's like okay, cool, we can we can talk
Speaker 1: about all of the noise, we can talk about all
Speaker 1: of the peripheral things, just to have a conversation that's easy,
Speaker 1: or like we could cut to the quick and let's
Speaker 1: do that. And you know, yeah, Peyton loves Brook like
Speaker 1: so much. But do you feel like so when you
Speaker 1: think about that, because you're identifying something in that conversation
Speaker 1: that the ability to cut to the quick and tell
Speaker 1: the truth, like when you've gone through a friend breakup.
Speaker 1: Because I do feel like that's part of your question, right,
Speaker 1: Joy is like do you have you grown into being
Speaker 1: able to do that, to just say that thing and
Speaker 1: do it or do you let it fizzle? Like you know,
Speaker 1: because it's too hard. I usually say the thing, throw
Speaker 1: a grenade and then disappear. Yeah, so I'll say it,
Speaker 1: but then I'll make it hurt and then I have
Speaker 1: to turn into miss. So essentially we're bringing it back
Speaker 1: to Asher and Chat in their smoke bombs a little
Speaker 1: bit of theatrics. Girls. Yeah, yeah, that's it's hard once
Speaker 1: you've been burned, like when you have been betrayed in
Speaker 1: that sort of a way where the rug has been
Speaker 1: pulled out from under you. Yeah, you have a very
Speaker 1: strong alarm bell that goes off around dishonesty. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know when like if you lie to my face, you
Speaker 1: could tell me you need help, Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I know the adage is like burying a body, and
Speaker 1: then I'm like that that might be a dark example,
Speaker 1: like I sunny and then I don't know what I
Speaker 1: mean when when when people ask that question, like if
Speaker 1: you had to bury a body, who would you call?
Speaker 1: Whatever the crisis is, I've got a bobcat, I've got
Speaker 1: the pharma. You know, think that like drama queens, murder, cleanup.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, well, my betrayal is on screen
Speaker 1: in this episode. I want to talk about abusive relationships.
Speaker 1: Talk about it, Okay, just give it all the way. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm white hot, like like my palms of field grows. Um.
Speaker 1: Our boss cast himself in our show, and he cast
Speaker 1: himself in a role that I would have to interact
Speaker 1: with as this like sage, you know, wise man that
Speaker 1: runs the record store, And first of all, he's a
Speaker 1: terrible actor. He's a terrible looking man. And to be
Speaker 1: super petty, Um, it was a missed opportunity because, as
Speaker 1: you guys said, we could have had somebody awesome come
Speaker 1: in and so ifia you said it like a musician,
Speaker 1: how cool would have been in here for a minute,
Speaker 1: because you know, there's going to be some troll who
Speaker 1: says that you're criticizing him because you of your personal
Speaker 1: experience that our boss was such a bad actor. He's
Speaker 1: not a bad he's not an actor, and so Hillary,
Speaker 1: you are carrying this beautiful scene. You're looking for something
Speaker 1: as a kid like and and music is such a healer.
Speaker 1: It really really is like you want to you want
Speaker 1: to get something new and get in your car and
Speaker 1: turn it up and scream and cry and have the
Speaker 1: experience that only a good record can give you. And
Speaker 1: you are carrying this scene as Peyton searching for something
Speaker 1: unlock the the feelings she has like brimming out of her.
Speaker 1: You find something else to articulate what you're feeling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're opposite this loser who can't act, who like
Speaker 1: for people at home and any of our friends who
Speaker 1: you know are also in this industry. You know what
Speaker 1: it's like when you go to an audition and the
Speaker 1: casting director is like out for the day, so they
Speaker 1: have some assistant sitting opposite you who you're supposed to
Speaker 1: do this like intensely emotional scene with, and the person's
Speaker 1: reading the paper going well, I thought that that was
Speaker 1: actually a very bad idea, And you're like, somebody helped me,
Speaker 1: or even worse, someone who's actually trying to act but
Speaker 1: they're really terrible at it, which is more distracting was
Speaker 1: happening in our episode, Like there's no reaction, Like even
Speaker 1: when James breaks the record, there's no like startled. There's
Speaker 1: there's nobody home and you guys are doing these big
Speaker 1: there's nobody home and you're doing these big scenes and
Speaker 1: the only thing that this be older man says to
Speaker 1: you as do you remember what you were looking for
Speaker 1: the first time you came in here? Why does a
Speaker 1: grown man remember what a teenage girl was looking for
Speaker 1: ten years ago at a record? Right, Like he's been
Speaker 1: there the whole time, Like he's the guy that we
Speaker 1: always go to to have a conversation with about art.
Speaker 1: The whole thing was. But he also had just given
Speaker 1: me that iPod in real life that he had with
Speaker 1: a hundred songs and they were all like kind of
Speaker 1: there were songs like little Miss Can't Be Wrong, and
Speaker 1: like songs to kind of put me on my place
Speaker 1: a little bit, or just kind of they were they
Speaker 1: all had a code, they all had a message, and
Speaker 1: so to then have that kind of meta feeling of
Speaker 1: it being put in the show, Yeah, I just felt
Speaker 1: like I was being beat over the head with this,
Speaker 1: like Okay, I get it. Can I had to suck
Speaker 1: it up and just stand there. And I felt so
Speaker 1: bad for you watching that, like knowing that you're again,
Speaker 1: we're so young, and to have put on your shoulders
Speaker 1: of stand there and do this scene and be a
Speaker 1: professional with this person who has been actively abusing you.
Speaker 1: That's not okay. Well we made the best I bet
Speaker 1: I was real perky on set that day. You didn't
Speaker 1: know you were. But I think what is hard and
Speaker 1: what's important for folks at home to remember because some
Speaker 1: some of what feels obvious to us because we lived
Speaker 1: it for so long isn't always to other people. But
Speaker 1: you know, there's two hundred people on a set. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of people whose livelihoods and families depend on
Speaker 1: that job and our job, no matter what is happening
Speaker 1: in our lives or how hard it is or traumatizing,
Speaker 1: what kind of loss you're going through. Somebody in your
Speaker 1: family could have died, and it doesn't matter. You have
Speaker 1: to get up and show up at exactly the time
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be there. There are no sick days
Speaker 1: like it's it's just not like that. And you had
Speaker 1: to come in and you had to do your job,
Speaker 1: regardless of all of the ways that you were being
Speaker 1: hoped and prodded by that adult. And you you not
Speaker 1: only came in, I mean I we watched you do
Speaker 1: it for years. You came in and entertained to the
Speaker 1: crew and made everybody feel happy, and you acted your
Speaker 1: face off in that scene, and again the person you
Speaker 1: were acting opposite across from that, there was nobody home,
Speaker 1: nothing was going on. We weren't being given any inspiration.
Speaker 1: I wanted to trade places with Joy in this episode.
Speaker 1: Joy with that head bandage, I'm like, God, d how
Speaker 1: do I get that job? But also how many times
Speaker 1: did you take a nap and off the whole time?
Speaker 1: The whole time? I don't know why we was we
Speaker 1: were joking about. I don't know why I was being
Speaker 1: punished for something, which is why I ended up with
Speaker 1: you know, and not able to really be in the episode,
Speaker 1: but also was in crutches for the rest of the season.
Speaker 1: I think, um, but yeah, no, I mean it was nice.
Speaker 1: It was nice to have a break. I guess I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, I'll take it. I didn't really
Speaker 1: I'm getting paid. It didn't really get to me. I
Speaker 1: was like, fine, yeah, pay me to sleep here on set.
Speaker 1: That sounds great. If you notice Daniel's not in the episode,
Speaker 1: she kept getting taken away from her. Um Peyton is god,
Speaker 1: I had to deal. Um you got violently hit by
Speaker 1: a car. Like if they thought that with violence against
Speaker 1: women was their ticket to the male audience, they have
Speaker 1: doubled down on that Haley hit And at least you
Speaker 1: got to be goth Sophia. That was so fun. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, Goth Brook. I need to see Sophia, like, please,
Speaker 1: please do a red carpet goth look one day. I
Speaker 1: really want to see that. I would love to. Honestly,
Speaker 1: it's like you know when when you see and I
Speaker 1: know it's become like a weird social media frenzy gross thing.
Speaker 1: But like the the iconography of what the met Ball is,
Speaker 1: and like the exhibitions of historical fashion and and like
Speaker 1: before it became like an Instagram event, I just find it,
Speaker 1: like I have found it to be so like like
Speaker 1: like the fact that you that you can have an
Speaker 1: alive museum is the coolest thing in the world to me.
Speaker 1: And and you know, sometimes they do those things like
Speaker 1: there was a there was a year I don't remember
Speaker 1: what the theme was, but like some I don't even
Speaker 1: remember who he was. Some guy went in like a
Speaker 1: full like metal sleeve and glove that looked like something
Speaker 1: that you know from from the Catherine the Great era,
Speaker 1: like like warrior armor. You know. Um, I find that
Speaker 1: all to be so cool. And I'm like, man, if
Speaker 1: there was a theme at something like that, like was
Speaker 1: hot topic, hot topic, I wanting to blew all of
Speaker 1: brooks piercings on on, like the lips and nose and
Speaker 1: the bridge and then and it was so fun. And
Speaker 1: what we tried to go for with the with the
Speaker 1: wig was to not have it be so over. But
Speaker 1: when you find out at the end of the episode
Speaker 1: that Brooke has gone dark, she's never forgiven herself. She
Speaker 1: blames herself in this alternate reality for Peyton's death. We
Speaker 1: wanted Goth Brooke to be a reference to Pengel, like
Speaker 1: a super long wig that you know. We didn't do
Speaker 1: the gray, We did all black. We did the fish nets,
Speaker 1: and then we did the eye makeup. Um. We actually
Speaker 1: looked at old imagery. See this is where like the
Speaker 1: history of fashion is cool to me. We looked at
Speaker 1: old imagery of sad clowns, like creepy old French clown
Speaker 1: did that like sad clown thing that we would, but
Speaker 1: we did it in black for the eyes, so it
Speaker 1: looked like she had these like gothic tears the middle
Speaker 1: of her like har believe. Really yeah, it was really fun.
Speaker 1: I also but I love that our writer's room knows
Speaker 1: so little about being goth that they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: one tragedy. You'll do it like God is like put
Speaker 1: in you as a little seed when you're seven years
Speaker 1: old and it blooms like in middle school. That's your forest.
Speaker 1: Golf forest is not an overnight growth. Guy. Well, it's
Speaker 1: also speaks me because like I have some friends like you,
Speaker 1: I mean you guys know Kenny and friends at home.
Speaker 1: My best friend Kenny is like deeply entrenched in the
Speaker 1: punk scene, has been in like was in a punk
Speaker 1: band that played in sewers in high school. Kenny's caller
Speaker 1: idea on my phone is him with like a twelve
Speaker 1: inch mohawk. Yeah, it's like punk and goth and all
Speaker 1: of those like very specific avenues. Like it's not a
Speaker 1: one hit wonder, but whatever. I had to do it,
Speaker 1: and so I really wanted and you made it cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to have this reference too, like dark
Speaker 1: Peyton in a dark Brook. Yeah, we should have just
Speaker 1: stayed dark. Honestly, that would have been so fun. Do
Speaker 1: you get more than one line next episode? Joy? Do
Speaker 1: you get to say Haley? Haley's parents never show up
Speaker 1: still like she's in What does it take for this
Speaker 1: girl's parents to show up in her life? Maybe they're
Speaker 1: hanging out with my dad just talking about all those
Speaker 1: kids back in tree Hill getting almost raped and almost killed. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well they really got to learn how to look out
Speaker 1: for themselves, you know what I mean? Like, we got
Speaker 1: to teach these kids personal responsibility. Got a tough and all.
Speaker 1: They need to go to therapy. That's what needs to happening.
Speaker 1: Y'all need to come home, They need to have parents
Speaker 1: in their house, and they need to go to counseling.
Speaker 1: I have two honorable mentions for this Uh, for this episode,
Speaker 1: which is James showing up with his amazing emotional work.
Speaker 1: I thought he did such a great job and uh,
Speaker 1: and the soundtrack I thought was really really good in
Speaker 1: this one too. There were some I would love to
Speaker 1: just have a soundtrack of this episode because it seemed
Speaker 1: like every song I was into. Yeah, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to my opinion about those two things. And you know what,
Speaker 1: in the honorable mentioned category, we need to talk about
Speaker 1: our camera crew. This is what they were able to
Speaker 1: do with the director's vision was incredible, and we we
Speaker 1: all talked about at the end when you know, when
Speaker 1: they begin to do the zoom in on Lucas still
Speaker 1: unconscious in the hospital and then you go back into
Speaker 1: tree Hill High with Lucas and Keith, and Keith keeps
Speaker 1: moving around like he's popping all over the place, and
Speaker 1: that that shot does not cut. It's this beautiful rotating
Speaker 1: steadicam shot that's like choreographing ballet. It is so so
Speaker 1: hard with a whole crew and a bunch of actors
Speaker 1: and the camera operator wearing the steadicam rig. It's a
Speaker 1: major undertaking and they did it so beautifully. It was.
Speaker 1: It was really great. So honorable mentioned there as well. Well.
Speaker 1: Keith just repeating himself. He repeats himself to Dan, I
Speaker 1: forgive you, I forgive you, I forgive you. And that's
Speaker 1: going to be the thing that rings in Dan's ear
Speaker 1: for a while. And then he repeats to Luke over
Speaker 1: and over again, open your eyes, open your eyes, open
Speaker 1: your eyes, and I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 1: ever been visited by a dead friend in a dream,
Speaker 1: but I have and it I cried in this episode,
Speaker 1: not because I was affected by the episode, but because
Speaker 1: my visceral memory of that dream with my friend is
Speaker 1: still so like, it's so tangible, it's so real that
Speaker 1: anything can trigger it. You know, an episode of a
Speaker 1: teen drama can trigger it. And it's like I can
Speaker 1: smell my friend and the eyes when it happens, it's
Speaker 1: in your bone and it stays forever. The idea that
Speaker 1: Luke is going to wake up and have that have
Speaker 1: that static electricity cling on him from Keith to visit,
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see like where that goes. The look
Speaker 1: of recognition in his eyes when he opened his eyes
Speaker 1: in that hospital bed, not just of it was so
Speaker 1: he did such a great job with that. He opened
Speaker 1: his eyes and it was like you knew exactly in
Speaker 1: that moment that he knew, he knew something, he knew,
Speaker 1: Dan killed, Keith knew. It was like he had the information.
Speaker 1: Good job. It was really really great. And you know
Speaker 1: what else I loved because you brought it up and
Speaker 1: the one that I actually wrote down, the thing that
Speaker 1: Keith keeps saying, is it's okay, Just breathe, It's gonna
Speaker 1: be okay. And you learned that that's what he said
Speaker 1: to Nathan in the water, and that that's what he's
Speaker 1: saying to Lucas, and he says it to Nathan and
Speaker 1: he says it to care every and you realize when
Speaker 1: he says when when Luke is almost in tears saying
Speaker 1: I don't want you to go, and he says, I'm
Speaker 1: with you every day, you realized Keith is with these people.
Speaker 1: And that's what did it for me. I like I
Speaker 1: could cry right now. That's what brought me back to
Speaker 1: my own experience, like waking up in tears from a
Speaker 1: dream or or a or an in between places like
Speaker 1: visit lost and you go like, I feel it on
Speaker 1: the insides of my bone. It's really it was really beautiful.
Speaker 1: We all need a visit. Well. We have a listener
Speaker 1: question from Nicole who says, so many of the River
Speaker 1: Court boys have nicknames. We've got mouth junk skills, Fergie,
Speaker 1: does Lucas have a River Court nickname? I don't believe so,
Speaker 1: but if he did, what would it be. That's like
Speaker 1: a pretty point, you think pretty totally be pretty boy.
Speaker 1: I feel like like Skills has called him all all
Speaker 1: sorts of a manner of things. Um, but at this moment,
Speaker 1: I can't recall any of them. I would use the
Speaker 1: nickname from the sand Lot Squints, because we always teased,
Speaker 1: We always tease chat about kind of that blue steel
Speaker 1: broody look, and Squints is my favorite Sandlot character. Well,
Speaker 1: that's why they started calling him broody broody. Remember they
Speaker 1: started calling me cheery and you broody him broody? Was
Speaker 1: it me cheery or wait? I can't remember. I've never
Speaker 1: been cheery in my life, so it was definitely. I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, was that like a sarcastic thing that
Speaker 1: they said to patting about I'm gonna start calling you
Speaker 1: that Hillary Cheery, Hi Cheerry. No. But that's why I
Speaker 1: like one of the writers, you know, put that in
Speaker 1: an episode and they started calling Lucas broody rudy, and
Speaker 1: it is funny Squintson Skills, that's funny Squints and Skills
Speaker 1: and feels more like mouth junk like it's more of
Speaker 1: a yeah, he nailed it. Good one, Well done you guys,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us for this one.
Speaker 1: What a great episode. If you didn't watch it, and
Speaker 1: you're just kind of listening to our podcast because you
Speaker 1: like hearing our voices in your car or your living room.
Speaker 1: Thank you. But also we recommend going back to watch this.
Speaker 1: In the last one, they were really special ones. These
Speaker 1: are really powerful for sure. Um, ladies, do we want
Speaker 1: to Spinsy Wheel? I would like to Spinsy Weed. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling so emo that I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: love you guys, let's see you next week. You guys,
Speaker 1: I'm so emo. I just sat on my phone last
Speaker 1: night and watch my Chemical Romance music videos. So this
Speaker 1: episode right, Oh my god, I love it. Most likely
Speaker 1: to host their own TV talk show, Uh, Erica Marsh.
Speaker 1: Well maybe actually, maybe it's not Erica Marsh. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: Catherine Bayless in a different character. Didn't Danille or dan
Speaker 1: have a talk show after I left? Yeh yeah, that
Speaker 1: was like a Tony Robbins. That's so dark. I can't wait.
Speaker 1: But we thought Katherine Bayless would totally host her own
Speaker 1: TV show and she'd be great at it. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: a party, I want to see that right now. Mhm.
Speaker 1: Just like Southern Stuff with Catherine would be my favorite show.
Speaker 1: She just do fun stuff like all these flowers? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: why why doesn't she have a podcast? At least? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I find it would be like designing women, but real,
Speaker 1: I would love that. I don't know, guys, I I
Speaker 1: love a talk show, like I just think they're the
Speaker 1: most fun getting to him. I mean, that's why I
Speaker 1: started my podcast, Like I was like, I just want
Speaker 1: to talk to people every day. What a cool thing,
Speaker 1: and like now we get to do it. I don't know,
Speaker 1: that might be like a later, later in life thing
Speaker 1: that I just want to do. I can see that.
Speaker 1: What character though, what character would do this? I mean
Speaker 1: I know Paul well Dan did it, so it feels
Speaker 1: like the obvious answer. But yeah, I could totally. I
Speaker 1: guess maybe now that you've said it, like I could
Speaker 1: see Erica Marsh being the like local news you know
Speaker 1: in the morning should just be so cute. Also like
Speaker 1: Erica and Mouth being together. Yes, Erica Marsh and Mouth
Speaker 1: hosting morning television. I live for this. Yeah, wake Up Tree, Hail,
Speaker 1: wake Up Morning Dying. I love it. Um, what do
Speaker 1: we have next week? Yeah? Next episode? Season four, episode eleven,
Speaker 1: Everything in its Right place? Wow, finally not a title
Speaker 1: that we earned a final finding our happy again happy place.
Speaker 1: Everyone's out of their coma. We did everybody lives. You
Speaker 1: gotta lie, you gotta lie. Okay, all right? Bro Loo
Speaker 1: for you, I Love for you, Love you by Hey.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O.
Speaker 1: T H. Or email us at Drama Queens at I
Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. See you next time. We are
Speaker 1: all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl, all
Speaker 1: about them high school queens. We'll take you for a
Speaker 1: ride in our comic Girl Cheering for the right drama queens,
Speaker 1: drawn up girl fashion, but your tough girls. You could
Speaker 1: sit with us. Girl Drama Queens, Drama Queens Drama, Queen's Drama, Drama,
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