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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Henry Rawlins is intense about the things he loves.

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Speaker 1: It's like he's on a mission from God, and he's

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Speaker 1: been that way since his days It's Black Flags frontman.

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Speaker 1: In the eighties, their music was pure aggression. At shows,

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Speaker 1: there was no delineating between the band and the audience.

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Speaker 1: It was all just one big moshpian with Rollins physically

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Speaker 1: fighting off the crowd and dodging beer bottles hurled at

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Speaker 1: his head. Real punk rock Gallins, Gallard Riding lovedy. For

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Speaker 1: nearly twenty five years, Henry Rawlins toured the world relentlessly,

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Speaker 1: first as Black Flag, then Rollins Band, and most recently

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Speaker 1: as a spoken word artist just before the pandemic, who

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Speaker 1: performed in twenty one countries and was the keynote speaker

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Speaker 1: at conferences for things as Munday in a Software but

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Speaker 1: also at cannabis conventions, which is funny for someone as

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Speaker 1: famously straight edge as Rollins. Henry and Rick Rubin, to

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Speaker 1: the most music obsessed dudes of all time, met way

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Speaker 1: back in the day. They even started the Infinite Zero

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Speaker 1: label together in the early nineties to reissue long forgotten

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Speaker 1: albums they both loved. Rick sat with Henry at Changela

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Speaker 1: pre pandemic, and in full Rollin's fashion, the stories just

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Speaker 1: poured out of him. Henry talks about the time he

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Speaker 1: was christened the lead singer by HR from Bad Brains,

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Speaker 1: the day he woke up and realized he was done

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Speaker 1: right in music, and why he'll never be the old

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Speaker 1: guy on stage performing his greatest hits. This is broken

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Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmondson.

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Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin and Henry Rollins. I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: the fact that both of us have essentially made music

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Speaker 1: our lives, and neither of us, I would say, a

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Speaker 1: particularly virtuoso and my musician, I can't. I can't play

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Speaker 1: a note on any instrument. All I can do is

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Speaker 1: buy him and carry him upstairs. Yes, I can't, and

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Speaker 1: I've never wanted to. I mean, I've written songs in

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Speaker 1: my head. I co wrote a song with George Clinton

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Speaker 1: once and we hummed it to the band. He's like

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Speaker 1: I got something, and he hummed, I go, that's King Crimson.

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Speaker 1: How'd you know I have that record? And he hummed

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Speaker 1: another one. I go, that's one of your own records,

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Speaker 1: like oh man, And then we finally came up with

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Speaker 1: something that he wasn't already used. And then I hummed

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Speaker 1: something and we wrote this song together and neither one

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Speaker 1: of us. He could probably play something. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but we just found the music by just going due.

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Speaker 1: And the band were like like this. I'm like, yeah, man.

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Speaker 1: And it was fascinating to be standing in front of

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Speaker 1: these guys sitting he was at the old Cherokee studios,

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Speaker 1: Me and Clinton looking at these guys going and a

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Speaker 1: song happened. Yeah, with no one's with no one else

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Speaker 1: sitting at a piano or anything. Yeah, so if you

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Speaker 1: if you know what you want to hear. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: I've never been a musician, you know. I was angry.

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Speaker 1: And they said, here's a microphone, here's a beat, do

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Speaker 1: your thing all right now? I can do yes. At

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Speaker 1: one time, our second bass player, Melvin Gibs, he heard

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Speaker 1: me singing. He goes, oh, just put it in E, man,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean? Like you're E. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what that meant until later, like this, just anyone get

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Speaker 1: hit at Henry, You're safe in E. I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: still don't know what it means. Really, I guess that

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Speaker 1: means I suck or limited? What was your first love

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Speaker 1: affair with music, go to the tell me your first

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Speaker 1: memories of like this is for me. A couple of things. Well,

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Speaker 1: if my mom had pitch perfect taste in me music

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Speaker 1: and we rarely watched TV, but we she would play

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Speaker 1: one record after another, and we go to the record

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Speaker 1: store up to three nights a week. My mom was

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Speaker 1: a record buyer. Bartok, Stravinsky, Beethoven, Hendricks, Mary mcaba, Barbara

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Speaker 1: streisand showed too. It's like poor gay in best Miles

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Speaker 1: Monk Coltrane. I mean, like perfect taste in music. I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily need a Barbara streisand record every day, but

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Speaker 1: those are good records. I mean, she's not messing around.

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Speaker 1: She's incredible Leadbelly, Dylan, both Guthries. My mom is like

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Speaker 1: her record collection is a mo And as a young adult,

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Speaker 1: I went through her record collection as like a twenty

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Speaker 1: something who knew a thing or two, and I went, wow,

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Speaker 1: Miles Davis, like, how come how come it stops it?

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Speaker 1: In a silent way, she's I just couldn't. I stopped

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Speaker 1: understanding Miles at a certain point, and she said, I

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Speaker 1: used to go see Miles and Coltrane all the time.

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Speaker 1: I said, you saw Miles, and she goes yeah, together separately,

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Speaker 1: like you're killing me. I had no idea how cool

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Speaker 1: my mom was. So I was raised in good music,

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Speaker 1: but the thing that really knocked me out was Ringo

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Speaker 1: drumming on Sergeant Pepper. I'm like, oh, I'm like eight

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Speaker 1: years old, hyperactive and just bouncing off the walls of

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Speaker 1: my little room. My mom gibbe Beatles records as electric

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Speaker 1: babysitters because I just play them over and over again.

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Speaker 1: But it was Ringo on the outro version of the

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Speaker 1: last you know, the outro Sergeant Pepper riff on the

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Speaker 1: way out of the record where it's just like naked

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Speaker 1: just doing that that stacked up ringo beat, and I said,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm talking about. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: what I was into. I just liked that and that

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Speaker 1: that that plays in my head all the time, and

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Speaker 1: that was the hook. And the first things I bought

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Speaker 1: when I made money, like throwing newspapers, was records, and

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Speaker 1: I bought you know, bike and records. It wasn't candy drugs,

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Speaker 1: it was music. And I you know, records are four

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Speaker 1: dollars and ninety nine cents. Back when Carter was president,

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Speaker 1: and I would make my money and go buy my

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Speaker 1: four dollars ninety nine cent. Some girls fly like an

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Speaker 1: eagle rocks toys in the attic, you know, whatever was

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Speaker 1: what was up? And so how old are you at

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Speaker 1: this time? Fifteen fourteen? Yeah, I was buying records steadily

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Speaker 1: by the time I was fourteen. I was a school

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Speaker 1: One time at prep school, all boys, and I walked

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Speaker 1: by one of the major jocks. He's got one of

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Speaker 1: those one speaker tape decks and he's got this crazy

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Speaker 1: music coming from and I took all the courage I

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Speaker 1: could someone like, you excuse me, sir, what are you

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Speaker 1: listening to? And he looked at me like I was

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Speaker 1: the dumbest guy on the planet. He's like Ted Nugent,

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Speaker 1: Like get a clue. I was like, duly noted. And

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Speaker 1: I went to the record store after school that day

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Speaker 1: because I always worked, I always had little pocket money,

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Speaker 1: and I bought free for all and then I went

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Speaker 1: backwards and bought the first album and those are the

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Speaker 1: Nugent records that were out, and I put him on

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Speaker 1: im like, oh, that's there, it is, That's what I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. And then a couple of years later, me

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Speaker 1: and Ian McKay saw him live and I was kind

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Speaker 1: of like the one of the best things I've ever seen,

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Speaker 1: and it was like, to this day, top five live

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Speaker 1: gigs I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: quite a few gigs. And so music was an obsession

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Speaker 1: all through high school because it was the escape from

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Speaker 1: the drudgery of an all boys prep school where as

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Speaker 1: a hyperactive riddle and adult student which didn't do well

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Speaker 1: on any level in school. And that's when me and

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Speaker 1: Ian McKay from Fugazi and Minor Threat, our friend, we

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Speaker 1: were gig guys. We would just go to the sea

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Speaker 1: the everybody Van Hale and Arrowsmith, Zeppelin. We saw everything

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Speaker 1: we could. And then when punk rock hit, that's when

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Speaker 1: music became like it went into the red as far

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Speaker 1: as collector guy need to know too much about everything,

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Speaker 1: hair splitting, you know, magnifying glass out looking at the

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Speaker 1: label where I took way better care of my records

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Speaker 1: and just became super vinyl obsessive. What was the first

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Speaker 1: punk record for you? The first one you heard, first

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Speaker 1: one you got, first one I heard was the first

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Speaker 1: Ramones album. I was. I was kind of birth purely

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Speaker 1: I read about these bands. He's like, what's this punk

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Speaker 1: rock craze? And I had Nugent Records that was my

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Speaker 1: crazy music. And a guy in my neighborhood he's on

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Speaker 1: a lot of the early discord records, rore Bert Queiroz.

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Speaker 1: Bert was like the cool kid. He's just a sharp guy,

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Speaker 1: really sharp guy, has his ear to the ground, and

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Speaker 1: he knows about import records. And one day we're at

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Speaker 1: the skate ramp and I said, you know, my music

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Speaker 1: no longer addresses my issues. I was like sixteen and

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Speaker 1: mad at everything, seventeen whatever. I was just pissed and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, fly like an eagle. Great record, it's just

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Speaker 1: not cutting it. You know, I don't understand the poetry

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Speaker 1: of the lyrics. I want to, you know, meet a

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Speaker 1: girl and burn something to the crownd. And so he said,

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Speaker 1: come with me. So I went to his microscopic apartment

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Speaker 1: he shared with his mom, and he was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to loan you this record. I need it back tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: this first Ramons album. And my mom wasn't home from

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Speaker 1: work yet, so I put it on her nice speakers,

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Speaker 1: not my crappyge in my room and I heard the

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Speaker 1: first Ramo album, and I don't get it. There's a

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Speaker 1: joke record, these four morons on the cover, and that's

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Speaker 1: not a rock band. They don't look like elo, Like,

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Speaker 1: what's what's their problem? And then you get to the

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Speaker 1: end of it like okay, that's funny, that's not Then

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Speaker 1: you play it again because he said you need to

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Speaker 1: play it three times. I'm like, okay, it's a thirty

169
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Speaker 1: minute records because the first two times, the first time

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Speaker 1: you're like, this is hilarious, second time you're like and

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Speaker 1: then the first time you're like, oh, lightbulb, and you're like,

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Speaker 1: this is my band. And with great regret and some reluctance,

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Speaker 1: I get the prize it from my grasp. And then

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Speaker 1: he said, okay, here's your next lesson. First clash Shop

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Speaker 1: because that's an import. Be careful. I go, what's an import?

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Speaker 1: He goes, that's a day's pay. That's what that is.

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Speaker 1: Twenty dollars record in nineteen seventy nine or whatever took

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Speaker 1: the remote the Clash record back and still to this

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Speaker 1: day one of my favorite records, and those records blew

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Speaker 1: my mind. I just didn't know you could do that

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Speaker 1: with I didn't know you could say that in a lyric.

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Speaker 1: Have not so many instruments on a record. I'm used

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Speaker 1: to elo ninety keyboards and feel I love those records.

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Speaker 1: I walked through the snow to buy Out of the

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Speaker 1: Blue or whatever the big double album is. I love

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Speaker 1: that record. But it's like eighty of everything, and it's

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Speaker 1: all so perfect. You can't get near it. With the remotes.

188
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Speaker 1: You can hear the cracks like, oh, those are humans,

189
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Speaker 1: And I never thought I could do that, but you,

190
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Speaker 1: like you look at him, I could approach those guys.

191
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Speaker 1: You're never going to meet Robert Plant, but you could

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Speaker 1: meet one of those guys. And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I went from seeing led Zeppelin at the Capitol Center's

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Speaker 1: gone Now We're the ind to seeing February fifteen, nineteen

195
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Speaker 1: seventy one, seeing bow Didley opening for the Clash, and

196
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Speaker 1: he said he looked at the crowd bunch a little

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Speaker 1: like all one hundred and fifty of us. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember when the coolest thing you're gonna have it was

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Speaker 1: a fifty five Chevy, A girl at your side. We're

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Speaker 1: like yay, Like no, you don't like okay whatever, We're

201
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Speaker 1: just trying to be there with you. Man, and so

202
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Speaker 1: bow Didley played. He was brought there. He's a DC guy,

203
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Speaker 1: so he walked to the show. He lived right down

204
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Speaker 1: the street, so the Clash requested him because he knew

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Speaker 1: he's a DC native. And then the Clash play in

206
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Speaker 1: the open with Janey Jones or White Riot something, and

207
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Speaker 1: it was like getting hit with this blinding white light

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Speaker 1: and it just seemed to burn, like I'm burning, my

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Speaker 1: skin's on fire. This is like destroying every notion I

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Speaker 1: have of what music. So I used to watch from

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Speaker 1: like a block away, and suddenly within a year, I'm

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Speaker 1: being sweated on by De de ramon Luck's interiors down

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Speaker 1: to his underwear landing on me. I'm like, oh, naked man,

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Speaker 1: Like it became real. The Bad Brains are breathing on

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Speaker 1: me because I'm standing in front of them at a

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Speaker 1: punk rock party. And that's when music went from this

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Speaker 1: spectator sport to this thing that I knew was going

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Speaker 1: to be my life, even if it's just fanboy, record store,

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Speaker 1: go to guy going to a gig. Guy. I never

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Speaker 1: thought of being in a band until one night, hr

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Speaker 1: of the Bad Brains. He said, Harry, you're a singer,

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Speaker 1: and I said, no, man, you're you're the singer. He said,

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Speaker 1: you're a singer, and tonight you're gonna be in the

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Speaker 1: bat brightness. And I'm standing in front of him, and

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Speaker 1: he grabbed me by my arm, put me on stage,

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Speaker 1: gave me the microphone, went back down off the stage

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Speaker 1: about as high as the couch we're sitting on, and

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Speaker 1: stud in front of me with his arms crossed. And

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Speaker 1: I knew those songs, we all did. And I just

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Speaker 1: call that a couple mid tempo was I could try

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Speaker 1: and get near and I sang them and I remember

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Speaker 1: Hr looking at me with this intense scowl like se

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, well, I guess here's your

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Speaker 1: mic back. That was a thrilling three and a half minutes.

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Speaker 1: But within a few months I was in a band.

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Speaker 1: But so as me and some other guy. You know,

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Speaker 1: we weren't that good. We had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: Our songs were forty four seconds, gigs were nine minutes

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Speaker 1: in length. All the songs we had fit on one

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Speaker 1: forty five and it's like at least five and a

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Speaker 1: half minutes of music. Yeah, how long did that band last?

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Speaker 1: I got into that band. They were pre existing and

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Speaker 1: the singer, some guy named Lyle Pressler, he never went anywhere.

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Speaker 1: He was also a good guitar players, so he moved

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Speaker 1: across town to some band called Minor Threat. Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then anyway, so Lyle leaves and he leaves behind this

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Speaker 1: band who needs a singer. So I go see his

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Speaker 1: old band, the Extorts, one night, and they're shopping for

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Speaker 1: a singer. So everyone knows who are seen as you

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Speaker 1: can fit them all in this room. It's not that

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Speaker 1: many people, so they know who I am. I know

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Speaker 1: who they are. So I said, I'll sing with you guys,

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Speaker 1: and they went okay. I think they're too scared to

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Speaker 1: say no because they're just, you know, ah scary guy

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Speaker 1: with no hair. And so suddenly I'm at band practice

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Speaker 1: having to write lyrics, which amazingly was not that difficult. Well,

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Speaker 1: I can't say anything about the quality of the lyrics,

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Speaker 1: but it came to me I was probably pretty pedestrian,

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Speaker 1: like I'll sing on every snare beat because melody's not

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Speaker 1: my thing. But suddenly I'm in this band and it

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Speaker 1: felt right, It felt really right. It felt like I

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Speaker 1: was a fish dropped into water. No stage fright, none, zero,

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Speaker 1: like I couldn't wait. And that was October eighty By

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Speaker 1: July eighty one, I'm in California at Black Flag practice.

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? That's crazy. I'll give you the

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Speaker 1: hyper condensed version. I knew those guys because they would

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Speaker 1: come through town and when they're in DC, they'd stayed

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Speaker 1: in Ian's mom's basement. So Ian's house is the coolest

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Speaker 1: in DC because you could go there and excuse me,

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Speaker 1: miss McKay, is Ian home. He's downstairs with a black Flag,

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Speaker 1: and so we're all like, you're in black Flag. We're

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Speaker 1: just like staying and they're like, oh gooey on the inside.

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Speaker 1: So I got to know those guys, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're just broke touring band, as I was student to

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Speaker 1: find out, and they were doing a tour on the

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Speaker 1: East Coast. I met him in March April. They came

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Speaker 1: back in July, not playing DC, so I took a

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Speaker 1: drove my car up to see them at Irving Plaza

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Speaker 1: and guest list. I hung out with them all afternoon

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Speaker 1: because I kind of sort of knew him. Drove with

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Speaker 1: them to another show at Second and A there and

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Speaker 1: I helped him load in Me and John Joseph at

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Speaker 1: the chromag loaded their gear in which a guy gets stabbed, like, okay,

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Speaker 1: that that just happened. Here's the snare. And I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at my watch. I gotta drive to DC and do

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Speaker 1: a full shift at hogandahs on no sleep. But I'm young.

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Speaker 1: I can totally do it. Just one thing. I've top

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Speaker 1: ramen noodles. I'm good to go. And so I looked

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Speaker 1: at my watch and I said, hey, they're playing this

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Speaker 1: tiny bar. I said, can you guys do a song

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Speaker 1: for me? It's called clocked In. It's a great riff.

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Speaker 1: And Dez, the great singer at the time, he said,

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Speaker 1: this is for Henry. It's called clocked In because he's

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Speaker 1: got to go to work. And he's like, who's that?

295
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Speaker 1: And I looked at I have no memory of this.

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Speaker 1: I looked at Des and Dees looked at me, and

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Speaker 1: suddenly I'm standing on stage with him, and I must

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Speaker 1: have had quite a look on my face because I

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Speaker 1: looked at him. He just gave me the mic, like,

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Speaker 1: don't hurt me. Here's the mic. I'm like okay, and

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00:15:52,676 --> 00:15:54,436
Speaker 1: the band was like, oh, Henry's gonna sing. I knew

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Speaker 1: the words. It's like a ninety second song, and I

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00:15:56,796 --> 00:15:59,036
Speaker 1: sang the words the way I thought those songs should

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Speaker 1: be sung, where like vital organs fly out of your mouth,

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00:16:01,756 --> 00:16:05,196
Speaker 1: the audience is terrified and Rome burns to the ground,

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Speaker 1: and I do the thing, and I remember two things.

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00:16:09,556 --> 00:16:12,636
Speaker 1: I remember the audience going like ah like looking at

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Speaker 1: like they're being assaulted, and Greg and Chuck looking at

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Speaker 1: the center of the stage at me, going like huh,

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Speaker 1: like that's keeping us awake. And I gave the mic

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Speaker 1: back and I got into my wounded nineteen sixty eight

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Speaker 1: VW fastback with the dent in the hood from where

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00:16:28,676 --> 00:16:30,916
Speaker 1: the mace canister bounced off it when my mom was

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00:16:30,956 --> 00:16:34,516
Speaker 1: locked in a traffic jam riot in the sixties. I

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00:16:34,636 --> 00:16:36,796
Speaker 1: drive the wounded car to my work shower in the

316
00:16:36,836 --> 00:16:39,636
Speaker 1: work sync, pull on a new shirt, and I'm scooping

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Speaker 1: ice cream, thinking I was in Black Flag for ninety seconds.

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Speaker 1: I've been you know, I'm twenty. My life is one

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Speaker 1: humiliation after another. Minimum wage jobs are going to be

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Speaker 1: my life. This is I got no plan, but man,

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Speaker 1: that was right. I was. I was in the right place,

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Speaker 1: and I got band practice. I go back to go

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Speaker 1: back to work and the phone rings. It's someone in

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Speaker 1: Black Flag has found found the work number. Hey, Henry,

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00:17:03,956 --> 00:17:06,916
Speaker 1: we're auditioning singers. Dez wants to move to rhythm guitar.

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00:17:07,036 --> 00:17:09,396
Speaker 1: You're pretty crazy last night. You want to come up

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Speaker 1: here to New York and audition. We'll pay your train fare. Like,

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Speaker 1: what do I have to lose? I'm twenty, I'm going

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Speaker 1: nowhere three seventy five an hour. I have nothing to lose,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not a tough guy. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of guts and courage. But I said, this is it,

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Speaker 1: this is a shot. This is never happening to me again.

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00:17:24,636 --> 00:17:27,316
Speaker 1: No way, shouldn't be happening now. So I said, I'll

334
00:17:27,356 --> 00:17:30,316
Speaker 1: be there tomorrow, give me an address. Met the met

335
00:17:30,796 --> 00:17:34,516
Speaker 1: at Odessa Polish diners great, a lot of food for cheap.

336
00:17:34,556 --> 00:17:36,316
Speaker 1: That's why they liked it. I ate there so many

337
00:17:36,316 --> 00:17:39,396
Speaker 1: times in Black Flag since anyway, I said, so what

338
00:17:39,436 --> 00:17:41,436
Speaker 1: are we doing? I still like Clay that we're gonna

339
00:17:41,436 --> 00:17:43,796
Speaker 1: go to a practice place and you're gonna sing two sets.

340
00:17:44,116 --> 00:17:45,676
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know any of the words. They

341
00:17:45,716 --> 00:17:48,116
Speaker 1: hardly have any records out is it sucks to be you?

342
00:17:48,396 --> 00:17:51,436
Speaker 1: What was out at that point? The yellow Yeah Jealous again?

343
00:17:51,436 --> 00:17:53,436
Speaker 1: In the Yellow twelve inch six pack was the EP

344
00:17:53,556 --> 00:17:57,036
Speaker 1: they were touring on, and then there was the Damage,

345
00:17:57,436 --> 00:18:00,636
Speaker 1: the Damage One in Louie Louis on Posh Boy, the single,

346
00:18:00,956 --> 00:18:04,876
Speaker 1: and Nervous Breakdown EP. So not much, not much at all,

347
00:18:05,036 --> 00:18:09,036
Speaker 1: not TV party and Rise the Bob and all the

348
00:18:09,156 --> 00:18:13,396
Speaker 1: big stuff and in your world? What was Black Flag

349
00:18:13,396 --> 00:18:15,836
Speaker 1: to you at that time? Before thing? To me? It

350
00:18:15,876 --> 00:18:18,196
Speaker 1: was the ultimate band. And they asked me, like, what's

351
00:18:18,196 --> 00:18:20,636
Speaker 1: your favorite song of ours? I said, Damage One, the

352
00:18:20,676 --> 00:18:24,716
Speaker 1: slow one with the wrong chord, liked and I was like,

353
00:18:24,756 --> 00:18:26,556
Speaker 1: that's the song and they went, you like that, you

354
00:18:26,636 --> 00:18:28,716
Speaker 1: like the slow one. I'm like, yeah, that's the one.

355
00:18:28,756 --> 00:18:31,236
Speaker 1: They want to go and kill everyone. They went, you're

356
00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:34,516
Speaker 1: all right. They were fascinated that I liked the slow

357
00:18:34,596 --> 00:18:39,636
Speaker 1: wrong one, classic gin weirdo chord, which is genius, and

358
00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:42,876
Speaker 1: that was my jam and they went, okay, you're interesting.

359
00:18:43,636 --> 00:18:46,196
Speaker 1: And so we get in this tiny practice room and

360
00:18:46,236 --> 00:18:50,476
Speaker 1: I literally am holding a microphone a fifty seven, not

361
00:18:50,596 --> 00:18:53,116
Speaker 1: a fifty eight, and I pinched myself because I did

362
00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:55,516
Speaker 1: I didn't believe. I said, so what song you want

363
00:18:55,516 --> 00:18:57,556
Speaker 1: to start with? I said, well, I didn't even know

364
00:18:57,596 --> 00:19:01,316
Speaker 1: many of the song titles. I said, Police Story and gain.

365
00:19:02,116 --> 00:19:04,476
Speaker 1: He has an on off. He doesn't have a tone thing.

366
00:19:04,556 --> 00:19:06,996
Speaker 1: He took that out and just put an on off switch,

367
00:19:07,236 --> 00:19:09,076
Speaker 1: so that all the early Black Flag records you hear,

368
00:19:10,076 --> 00:19:12,996
Speaker 1: and that's just him hitting on and the thing starts howling.

369
00:19:13,036 --> 00:19:15,396
Speaker 1: With feedback. It's a Dan Armstrong. We could pick ups

370
00:19:15,436 --> 00:19:18,996
Speaker 1: floating in resin, so it's a feedback machine. And all

371
00:19:19,036 --> 00:19:22,476
Speaker 1: I can remember is and ninety minutes later, we've done

372
00:19:22,516 --> 00:19:26,596
Speaker 1: every song twice. I'm completely soaked in sweat. I have

373
00:19:26,756 --> 00:19:29,076
Speaker 1: no real memory of it. All I remember is I

374
00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:31,996
Speaker 1: just kind of went ooh wah wah and yelled and scream.

375
00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:34,076
Speaker 1: I had fun. And they said, okay, we're gonna have

376
00:19:34,076 --> 00:19:36,196
Speaker 1: a band meeting. You go wait in the front lounge.

377
00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:38,916
Speaker 1: I ran across the street, got one of those cool

378
00:19:39,036 --> 00:19:42,836
Speaker 1: glass bottles of tropicana. Not from concentrating. I'm like cool

379
00:19:43,036 --> 00:19:46,036
Speaker 1: live in large dollar thirty five and I'm sitting there

380
00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:47,636
Speaker 1: waiting for the verdict, which I figure is gonna be

381
00:19:47,636 --> 00:19:49,996
Speaker 1: like hours. They're gonna take out the skull and light

382
00:19:50,036 --> 00:19:52,556
Speaker 1: the candle and with out the sacred verses. Now they

383
00:19:52,596 --> 00:19:55,316
Speaker 1: came out in like three minutes, and one of them,

384
00:19:55,316 --> 00:19:58,076
Speaker 1: I think it was Dakowski, said so matter of factly,

385
00:19:58,116 --> 00:20:01,876
Speaker 1: you're in. And I said, excuse me, you're in? I

386
00:20:01,916 --> 00:20:06,036
Speaker 1: said in what in Black Flag? Who? You me? Yeah?

387
00:20:06,196 --> 00:20:09,356
Speaker 1: Doing what? You're the singer of who? Black Flag? Because

388
00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:13,916
Speaker 1: they were like, He's like, so you're in. And I

389
00:20:13,956 --> 00:20:15,676
Speaker 1: was in disbelief. And one of them finally said you

390
00:20:15,716 --> 00:20:17,996
Speaker 1: want the job or not? I was like, yeah, wait,

391
00:20:18,236 --> 00:20:21,396
Speaker 1: wait a minute. I was scooping ice cream yesterday, is

392
00:20:21,396 --> 00:20:24,316
Speaker 1: this happening? It was unreal? So I said, so what

393
00:20:24,356 --> 00:20:27,956
Speaker 1: do I do? And I forget which maybe it was Dakowski.

394
00:20:28,116 --> 00:20:31,796
Speaker 1: He hands me this massive folder of lyrics. You know,

395
00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:35,276
Speaker 1: they were prepared, and they said, you learn these, you

396
00:20:35,396 --> 00:20:38,516
Speaker 1: go home, you kiss your little mommy goodbye, you quit

397
00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:40,516
Speaker 1: your job, you give all your stuff away, you pack

398
00:20:40,556 --> 00:20:43,036
Speaker 1: a bag. Here's the tour, I tinner, you meet us

399
00:20:43,036 --> 00:20:46,036
Speaker 1: as soon as you can. And then one of the

400
00:20:46,076 --> 00:20:49,596
Speaker 1: road crew guys are laughing and what's so funny? Like, man,

401
00:20:49,636 --> 00:20:52,236
Speaker 1: we got we gotta make the album soon. I said,

402
00:20:52,596 --> 00:20:55,156
Speaker 1: what album? The first Black Flag album? I said, aha,

403
00:20:55,236 --> 00:20:57,956
Speaker 1: so who's singing on that? And they went, you do

404
00:20:58,076 --> 00:21:01,076
Speaker 1: you get it? I feared it would be Daz like

405
00:21:01,076 --> 00:21:04,756
Speaker 1: the Farewell Das album. I didn't know, And I get

406
00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:08,956
Speaker 1: on the train, numb like speechless, kind of holding this

407
00:21:09,676 --> 00:21:12,956
Speaker 1: folder like it's not even mine. And I go to

408
00:21:12,996 --> 00:21:16,556
Speaker 1: work and Ian Mackay calls because there's no internet, he said,

409
00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:19,196
Speaker 1: where have you been? Let me talk every day he said,

410
00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:23,076
Speaker 1: I said, okay, I left town like yesterday, the day before.

411
00:21:23,596 --> 00:21:25,996
Speaker 1: I didn't have time to tell you anything. So here's

412
00:21:26,036 --> 00:21:29,076
Speaker 1: what just happened. And I don't ask advice of people.

413
00:21:29,116 --> 00:21:30,636
Speaker 1: I just go and make a mistake and you know,

414
00:21:30,716 --> 00:21:33,756
Speaker 1: limp away. But I asked Ian, I go, so what

415
00:21:33,796 --> 00:21:35,876
Speaker 1: do you think? He said, are you kidding? This is

416
00:21:35,916 --> 00:21:38,676
Speaker 1: going to be great? And so it took me a

417
00:21:38,716 --> 00:21:42,636
Speaker 1: few days to pack, give things away, including that car.

418
00:21:43,596 --> 00:21:46,436
Speaker 1: Quit my job and my boss said, well, I'll give

419
00:21:46,476 --> 00:21:48,796
Speaker 1: you four dollars an hour, like you know, an incentive.

420
00:21:48,836 --> 00:21:51,756
Speaker 1: I said, I love my job. Steve. We're still friends

421
00:21:51,796 --> 00:21:53,516
Speaker 1: to this day. I said, I liked my job. He

422
00:21:53,516 --> 00:21:55,756
Speaker 1: helped me get my first department. He gave me, He

423
00:21:55,796 --> 00:21:59,276
Speaker 1: got me credit. He called the landlords that I got this.

424
00:21:59,316 --> 00:22:00,796
Speaker 1: If he screws up, I got this. That's how I

425
00:22:00,796 --> 00:22:02,916
Speaker 1: got my first department. So he means a lot to me.

426
00:22:02,996 --> 00:22:05,916
Speaker 1: Trusted me with his money. I ran his store, his

427
00:22:06,396 --> 00:22:08,516
Speaker 1: hog and does and so I said, I gotta go.

428
00:22:08,556 --> 00:22:10,356
Speaker 1: He said, no, you got to do this. This is

429
00:22:10,356 --> 00:22:12,556
Speaker 1: a shot. You're not going to get this again. So

430
00:22:12,796 --> 00:22:14,836
Speaker 1: if it craps out on you, you can have your

431
00:22:14,836 --> 00:22:16,596
Speaker 1: old job back. And I said, man, you never know,

432
00:22:16,596 --> 00:22:20,436
Speaker 1: I might be back. And a few days later, my

433
00:22:20,516 --> 00:22:23,356
Speaker 1: old band played with Black Flag in Philadelphia and I

434
00:22:23,356 --> 00:22:26,116
Speaker 1: sang the encore with Black Flag, and that was the

435
00:22:26,116 --> 00:22:28,476
Speaker 1: handing of the baton where Chuck went up to the

436
00:22:28,516 --> 00:22:30,636
Speaker 1: micazette and here's the new singer of Black Flag. And

437
00:22:30,636 --> 00:22:33,796
Speaker 1: I went out on stage and sang Louie Louie and

438
00:22:33,916 --> 00:22:35,996
Speaker 1: like one or two others, and everyone kind of went whatever.

439
00:22:36,316 --> 00:22:38,236
Speaker 1: And the owner of that club a few years ago

440
00:22:38,316 --> 00:22:40,476
Speaker 1: sent me the set list. Wow, he said, here's the

441
00:22:40,516 --> 00:22:45,236
Speaker 1: set list where you transitioned into Black Flag. And I

442
00:22:45,316 --> 00:22:47,676
Speaker 1: went back to d C because I still had to, like,

443
00:22:47,716 --> 00:22:49,636
Speaker 1: you know, clean up a few things. And a couple

444
00:22:49,676 --> 00:22:52,196
Speaker 1: of days later, I was on a Greyhound bus overnight

445
00:22:52,196 --> 00:22:55,156
Speaker 1: to Detroit. I still have the bus ticket. I take

446
00:22:55,156 --> 00:22:59,036
Speaker 1: a taxi to Clutch Cargo, the now famous punk rock venue.

447
00:22:59,356 --> 00:23:01,636
Speaker 1: I beat the band there. They're driving from some other

448
00:23:01,636 --> 00:23:04,636
Speaker 1: city and I come in with my duffel bag and

449
00:23:04,676 --> 00:23:06,676
Speaker 1: I walk in as a lady behind the bars. He

450
00:23:06,756 --> 00:23:08,516
Speaker 1: just canna help you. I said, you know I was

451
00:23:08,556 --> 00:23:11,036
Speaker 1: born play I said, yes, ma'am, And I've never said

452
00:23:11,076 --> 00:23:13,436
Speaker 1: I had never said this as a declarative sentence to

453
00:23:13,476 --> 00:23:15,676
Speaker 1: anyone in my life except this lady behind the bar.

454
00:23:15,836 --> 00:23:18,076
Speaker 1: It's like two in the afternoon. She said, can I

455
00:23:18,076 --> 00:23:21,956
Speaker 1: help you? I said, I'm the singer in Black Flag.

456
00:23:22,036 --> 00:23:23,996
Speaker 1: Like not even I thought she's gonna go get out

457
00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:27,116
Speaker 1: of here. She went, Oh, would you like a kolke want? Yes? Please?

458
00:23:27,556 --> 00:23:33,556
Speaker 1: What was the relationship from the beginning between Greg and Chuck?

459
00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:39,596
Speaker 1: How did that work? Founding members? Yeah and left side,

460
00:23:39,636 --> 00:23:44,236
Speaker 1: right side brain Dokowski hard on sleeve, you know, tears

461
00:23:44,316 --> 00:23:48,396
Speaker 1: up during songs. He's really like just ripped open. Greg

462
00:23:48,476 --> 00:23:52,196
Speaker 1: is the more hyper analytical. They're both smart, different but

463
00:23:52,236 --> 00:23:54,596
Speaker 1: they're utilizing different parts of the brain and you can

464
00:23:54,676 --> 00:23:59,396
Speaker 1: see it in the lyrics. Chuck is writing my war

465
00:24:00,596 --> 00:24:04,516
Speaker 1: other stuff was just ripped open emotionally. Greg is coming

466
00:24:04,516 --> 00:24:07,596
Speaker 1: from the more introspective. Both of them are super effective,

467
00:24:07,756 --> 00:24:11,876
Speaker 1: great songwriters, but where one is writing, you know, rise

468
00:24:11,916 --> 00:24:16,956
Speaker 1: above Greg American waste, which is like, let's burn America

469
00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:20,276
Speaker 1: to the ground before they kill us all, Chuck. But

470
00:24:20,316 --> 00:24:22,876
Speaker 1: when you have both sides of the brain, left side,

471
00:24:22,956 --> 00:24:25,716
Speaker 1: right side on one record, you have this fully realized,

472
00:24:26,836 --> 00:24:30,636
Speaker 1: introspective person who's mad. And so that's why, like those

473
00:24:30,676 --> 00:24:36,196
Speaker 1: early records really work, because all parts of your your young, angry,

474
00:24:36,316 --> 00:24:39,636
Speaker 1: insecure palette are being addressed. You know, you have a

475
00:24:39,716 --> 00:24:43,716
Speaker 1: Hall and oats and it worked. And later on their

476
00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:48,196
Speaker 1: relationship became antagonistic leading and I'm not talking out of class.

477
00:24:48,196 --> 00:24:52,316
Speaker 1: It's all documented, leading for Dakowski to eventually sell his

478
00:24:52,396 --> 00:24:55,716
Speaker 1: share of SST and move on, and so it became

479
00:24:55,796 --> 00:24:58,596
Speaker 1: Greg scene. Do you know what that was about. It's

480
00:24:58,636 --> 00:25:02,276
Speaker 1: just about the combination of Greg Ginn and Chuck Dakowski.

481
00:25:02,516 --> 00:25:04,596
Speaker 1: And if you look at the history of Greg Ginn

482
00:25:04,676 --> 00:25:07,676
Speaker 1: and everyone in Black Flag and every artist on SST,

483
00:25:08,116 --> 00:25:10,156
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know quite a bit about this. And

484
00:25:10,316 --> 00:25:14,036
Speaker 1: anyone wants to take the merest glance onto the internet.

485
00:25:14,116 --> 00:25:16,876
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to talk out of class. Kind of great. Plus,

486
00:25:16,996 --> 00:25:22,236
Speaker 1: anyone is a turbulent time stamped there. It will come

487
00:25:22,276 --> 00:25:24,196
Speaker 1: to an end, like there is a use by date,

488
00:25:25,196 --> 00:25:28,556
Speaker 1: and don't stick around after Monday when the thing is

489
00:25:28,916 --> 00:25:34,516
Speaker 1: just just leave. And so I left, and so they

490
00:25:34,556 --> 00:25:38,396
Speaker 1: were an amazing combination. The closest thing that I can

491
00:25:39,916 --> 00:25:42,996
Speaker 1: in my life was Bob moulding Grant Heart of Who's

492
00:25:43,036 --> 00:25:48,636
Speaker 1: Gerd Two Guys Again. Bob Mould the introspective, analytical Grant

493
00:25:48,676 --> 00:25:52,876
Speaker 1: Heart completely ripped open both insanely talented and almost knocked

494
00:25:52,876 --> 00:25:54,836
Speaker 1: down drag outfights with those two back in the day

495
00:25:54,956 --> 00:25:57,236
Speaker 1: because they're both you know, getting loaded or whatever. There's

496
00:25:57,236 --> 00:26:00,436
Speaker 1: this crazy young men, super talented. But I saw Who's

497
00:26:00,436 --> 00:26:02,876
Speaker 1: Grew do One? Oh, I'm in a band like that,

498
00:26:03,756 --> 00:26:07,556
Speaker 1: who are like you know, everyone is just like snarly

499
00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:11,276
Speaker 1: at all times, and that's why those records sound like

500
00:26:11,316 --> 00:26:14,156
Speaker 1: they do like you play them now. As a man

501
00:26:14,196 --> 00:26:17,316
Speaker 1: pushing sixty, I hear some of those songs every once

502
00:26:17,356 --> 00:26:20,036
Speaker 1: in a while somewhere and I go, yeah, that's music

503
00:26:20,076 --> 00:26:22,076
Speaker 1: you make when you're young and hungry and really mad.

504
00:26:22,596 --> 00:26:25,196
Speaker 1: I can't make that music now because I got too

505
00:26:25,236 --> 00:26:27,236
Speaker 1: much money in the bank. I eat three meals a

506
00:26:27,316 --> 00:26:31,676
Speaker 1: day and I nothing really inconvenience, just me, and I'm

507
00:26:31,716 --> 00:26:35,076
Speaker 1: just not there anymore. But when you're young, you're Ferrell.

508
00:26:35,516 --> 00:26:38,236
Speaker 1: And the way Black Flag lived it was a constant

509
00:26:38,276 --> 00:26:41,596
Speaker 1: like well there, let's hope there's not the second stabbing

510
00:26:41,676 --> 00:26:44,236
Speaker 1: this week at one of our shows, and so those

511
00:26:44,316 --> 00:26:48,076
Speaker 1: days you became your environment. We'll be right back with

512
00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:55,236
Speaker 1: Henry Rollins. After a quick break. We're back with more

513
00:26:55,276 --> 00:26:58,436
Speaker 1: from Henry Rollins. What was the difference in the shows

514
00:26:58,476 --> 00:27:03,276
Speaker 1: between the UK and the US? Far less antagonism in

515
00:27:03,316 --> 00:27:07,156
Speaker 1: England in those days, you know Reagan, Thatcher. It was

516
00:27:07,276 --> 00:27:09,436
Speaker 1: a bunch of people telling you to go home. And

517
00:27:09,516 --> 00:27:11,316
Speaker 1: I'm a guy who grew up in the record store.

518
00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:14,116
Speaker 1: So we're opening for the Exploited. I had the Dudes

519
00:27:14,156 --> 00:27:16,916
Speaker 1: records that was an hour's paid a guy by that

520
00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,356
Speaker 1: single and his road crew would come into our dress

521
00:27:20,396 --> 00:27:22,396
Speaker 1: room take our food and there, you know, we don't

522
00:27:22,436 --> 00:27:24,396
Speaker 1: want to. You know, they're all these Scottish maniacs. They

523
00:27:24,396 --> 00:27:27,516
Speaker 1: will kill you. So like take our four bananas and

524
00:27:27,156 --> 00:27:32,116
Speaker 1: the cold ham sandwich. So we starve. And the singer

525
00:27:32,196 --> 00:27:34,836
Speaker 1: hated us because we're from America, and he'd go on

526
00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:38,796
Speaker 1: stage and like, you know, kill the American wankers. And

527
00:27:38,836 --> 00:27:40,916
Speaker 1: we opened for Chelsea and I had those records too,

528
00:27:41,036 --> 00:27:45,196
Speaker 1: liked them. And this singer like, hey, hey California, Hey

529
00:27:45,276 --> 00:27:47,276
Speaker 1: mister America. I'm like, what have I done to you?

530
00:27:47,956 --> 00:27:49,876
Speaker 1: And so All these bands were really mean to us,

531
00:27:49,876 --> 00:27:52,356
Speaker 1: except The Damned in the UK subs, but all these

532
00:27:52,396 --> 00:27:55,476
Speaker 1: bands who I had records of were just awful to us.

533
00:27:55,956 --> 00:27:59,476
Speaker 1: And there's the spitting and when you're opening for a band,

534
00:27:59,916 --> 00:28:01,876
Speaker 1: they kind of don't like you, like when you open

535
00:28:01,916 --> 00:28:04,196
Speaker 1: for the Damn the audience wants to see one band

536
00:28:04,396 --> 00:28:06,796
Speaker 1: it's not you, and their audience was kind of nice.

537
00:28:06,796 --> 00:28:09,276
Speaker 1: With the exploited audience, they just want to beat you up.

538
00:28:09,876 --> 00:28:13,876
Speaker 1: And we're coming We're not shrinking violets either. We're coming

539
00:28:13,916 --> 00:28:16,436
Speaker 1: on with our thing, which is pretty insane in those days. Right,

540
00:28:16,556 --> 00:28:18,436
Speaker 1: you don't like us, we don't like you either, And

541
00:28:18,516 --> 00:28:21,156
Speaker 1: here it comes. So we came back to America basically

542
00:28:21,236 --> 00:28:24,196
Speaker 1: to a hero's welcome. You know, yeay, they already knew us.

543
00:28:24,716 --> 00:28:27,676
Speaker 1: You know, you're an American band who they already had

544
00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:31,076
Speaker 1: a built in audience. And so two nights later, you're

545
00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:34,596
Speaker 1: up in Boston doing two sets and on BCM with

546
00:28:34,596 --> 00:28:38,276
Speaker 1: Oedipus after the show in a heated van. It's all different. Yeah,

547
00:28:38,676 --> 00:28:41,036
Speaker 1: let's talk about the making of the first album. Sure,

548
00:28:42,076 --> 00:28:47,076
Speaker 1: it's made in autumn of nineteen eighty one at a

549
00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:50,476
Speaker 1: place which is now a trader Joe's on Santa Monica Boulevard,

550
00:28:50,476 --> 00:28:53,596
Speaker 1: a little west of La Sienega, and it was Unicorn

551
00:28:53,636 --> 00:28:56,476
Speaker 1: Recording Studios. Black Flag lived in the office as above.

552
00:28:56,516 --> 00:28:59,596
Speaker 1: We slept on the floor. There's a practice room on

553
00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:02,356
Speaker 1: that floor, so we'd practice there. He'd go downstairs to

554
00:29:02,396 --> 00:29:08,236
Speaker 1: their offices. Wood paneling, plush carpuses. Total nineteen seventies into

555
00:29:08,236 --> 00:29:11,716
Speaker 1: the eighties. Studio, tiny studio, but we didn't need much.

556
00:29:11,836 --> 00:29:14,476
Speaker 1: It was like a very bare bones environment. We knew

557
00:29:14,516 --> 00:29:19,596
Speaker 1: the songs and so we recorded by day with Spot producing.

558
00:29:20,316 --> 00:29:22,596
Speaker 1: But here's the thing now, is everyone's dead. We can

559
00:29:22,636 --> 00:29:26,676
Speaker 1: talk about it. What Unicorn didn't understand was we live

560
00:29:26,716 --> 00:29:29,716
Speaker 1: on top of the we're in the same building. They

561
00:29:29,756 --> 00:29:33,236
Speaker 1: go home at five pm. The owner this reception is

562
00:29:33,276 --> 00:29:36,476
Speaker 1: it's a record company with a studio. At five pm,

563
00:29:36,676 --> 00:29:39,516
Speaker 1: everyone's out of there. The way to get to the

564
00:29:39,596 --> 00:29:42,396
Speaker 1: studio from the upstairs is one door. You just turn

565
00:29:42,476 --> 00:29:44,196
Speaker 1: that little thing in the middle of the knob. You

566
00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:48,036
Speaker 1: just leave it open. As soon as they're gone, like

567
00:29:48,116 --> 00:29:50,876
Speaker 1: at five pm, we're like, oh, we're really tired, and

568
00:29:50,916 --> 00:29:54,596
Speaker 1: they'd leave and we'd leave at five fifteen. We're right

569
00:29:54,596 --> 00:29:58,756
Speaker 1: back in there. Over Dub's vocals till about seven thirty

570
00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:01,636
Speaker 1: in the morning, Open up the doors, air the place out,

571
00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:03,356
Speaker 1: because a bunch of man odor we've been in their

572
00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:06,996
Speaker 1: sweating all night singing the course of TV Party eighty times.

573
00:30:07,156 --> 00:30:11,196
Speaker 1: You air it out, turn everything thing off, and tiptoe upstairs,

574
00:30:11,436 --> 00:30:14,756
Speaker 1: sleep for forty minutes, and come back down having just

575
00:30:14,916 --> 00:30:18,156
Speaker 1: clocked a good twelve hours of free time. Because we

576
00:30:18,196 --> 00:30:21,516
Speaker 1: can't afford what it would really cost, and so we

577
00:30:21,556 --> 00:30:26,276
Speaker 1: would do everything at night, like tons of overdubs, and

578
00:30:26,396 --> 00:30:29,556
Speaker 1: finish the record at night. And Unicorn probably made plenty

579
00:30:29,636 --> 00:30:32,916
Speaker 1: of us, but we made that record on you know,

580
00:30:33,076 --> 00:30:35,516
Speaker 1: by using it at night. And who knows if they

581
00:30:35,596 --> 00:30:38,956
Speaker 1: knew or even cared, but we did that. But we

582
00:30:38,996 --> 00:30:41,476
Speaker 1: made the record very quickly because of all the demoing

583
00:30:41,476 --> 00:30:44,156
Speaker 1: and the years of playing those songs on stage. Some

584
00:30:44,196 --> 00:30:46,716
Speaker 1: of the songs were new My TV Party was super new,

585
00:30:47,076 --> 00:30:49,916
Speaker 1: but the rest of them were like, you know, a

586
00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:52,436
Speaker 1: couple of years old, So it wasn't like anyone had

587
00:30:52,436 --> 00:30:55,236
Speaker 1: a question about him. You've been playing them a hundred times.

588
00:30:55,756 --> 00:31:00,316
Speaker 1: By eighty three, we're playing the songs that wouldn't be

589
00:31:00,476 --> 00:31:05,316
Speaker 1: released until eighty four. In fact, my war slip it

590
00:31:05,396 --> 00:31:08,796
Speaker 1: in all those. We demoed those in eighty two. That's

591
00:31:08,836 --> 00:31:12,196
Speaker 1: how quick Greg and Chuck we're writing them. So we're

592
00:31:12,236 --> 00:31:15,516
Speaker 1: still doing the damage set, but we're playing the rock stuff.

593
00:31:15,996 --> 00:31:18,436
Speaker 1: And so we started playing those songs in late eighty two,

594
00:31:18,676 --> 00:31:21,796
Speaker 1: eighty September eighty two into eighty three, and the audiences

595
00:31:21,796 --> 00:31:24,876
Speaker 1: are just like staying there flipping us off. It's like, nope,

596
00:31:25,116 --> 00:31:29,156
Speaker 1: what is this? And by eighty four, it's all seven

597
00:31:29,196 --> 00:31:32,756
Speaker 1: minutes sludgy, slow songs, and the audience was off two minds,

598
00:31:32,796 --> 00:31:35,476
Speaker 1: either like, man, this has never been better, like this

599
00:31:35,556 --> 00:31:37,956
Speaker 1: is the most intense, or I hate you guys and

600
00:31:37,996 --> 00:31:39,956
Speaker 1: I paid my five dollars and fifty cents to come

601
00:31:39,996 --> 00:31:45,036
Speaker 1: here and abuse the singer. And it only became more

602
00:31:46,036 --> 00:31:50,316
Speaker 1: either with us or against us, because every album was different.

603
00:31:50,836 --> 00:31:55,756
Speaker 1: By eighty six, this shows the audiences were pretty angry

604
00:31:56,156 --> 00:31:58,636
Speaker 1: because they didn't like the new songs and a lot

605
00:31:58,636 --> 00:32:01,756
Speaker 1: of them they hadn't heard, and they wanted the old ones,

606
00:32:02,116 --> 00:32:04,916
Speaker 1: and they took it out on us, like things would hit,

607
00:32:04,956 --> 00:32:08,716
Speaker 1: the stage, equipment would get abused, the PA would get abused,

608
00:32:08,756 --> 00:32:11,516
Speaker 1: the l would get abused, the singer would get abused.

609
00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:14,876
Speaker 1: And so by the end of that In the last tour,

610
00:32:14,996 --> 00:32:19,116
Speaker 1: it was kind of a miserable hate fest of a

611
00:32:19,236 --> 00:32:23,476
Speaker 1: record or songs that people weren't that into lyrics. I

612
00:32:23,556 --> 00:32:27,036
Speaker 1: didn't quite get along with all that well in a

613
00:32:27,036 --> 00:32:30,996
Speaker 1: band that was incredibly unhappy. And I'm not trying to

614
00:32:30,996 --> 00:32:33,116
Speaker 1: put anyone down. It's just, you know, people are together

615
00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:35,276
Speaker 1: in a band very intensely. It is what it is.

616
00:32:35,356 --> 00:32:36,916
Speaker 1: You know, you're not You've you've been around a few

617
00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:40,876
Speaker 1: bands in your life. It's closer than a family. It's

618
00:32:40,916 --> 00:32:44,796
Speaker 1: a bunch of crazy, creative people all in a compressed

619
00:32:45,356 --> 00:32:49,036
Speaker 1: space doing the same thing every night, and everything smells

620
00:32:49,076 --> 00:32:52,956
Speaker 1: like somebody's laundry, and you're like, okay, I hate your guts,

621
00:32:53,116 --> 00:32:56,756
Speaker 1: so let's go on tour. And that's how it is.

622
00:32:57,396 --> 00:32:59,596
Speaker 1: As much as those people have made me mad over

623
00:32:59,636 --> 00:33:02,156
Speaker 1: the years, when it came down to it, I would

624
00:33:02,236 --> 00:33:05,356
Speaker 1: jump in front of anything bad coming their way. I

625
00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,756
Speaker 1: have to, because they're all in that battlefield and you know,

626
00:33:08,836 --> 00:33:13,836
Speaker 1: and some of those men make me very angry. But

627
00:33:14,036 --> 00:33:16,396
Speaker 1: if it was something bad was happening right now, I'd

628
00:33:16,436 --> 00:33:18,916
Speaker 1: be right there, like I got this hit me instead,

629
00:33:19,276 --> 00:33:21,756
Speaker 1: How did it work that you left the band? The

630
00:33:21,796 --> 00:33:25,116
Speaker 1: tour came the last show was in Detroit, two nights

631
00:33:25,636 --> 00:33:31,316
Speaker 1: at Graystone. We finished, drove back to La Greg said, initially,

632
00:33:31,396 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 1: We're going to take a year off because I'm going

633
00:33:33,476 --> 00:33:36,236
Speaker 1: to reinvent SST. Like, what's that going to be like?

634
00:33:36,276 --> 00:33:38,916
Speaker 1: Because I never understood an hour off from that band.

635
00:33:38,956 --> 00:33:41,996
Speaker 1: You were never far away. And I went a year

636
00:33:42,636 --> 00:33:44,396
Speaker 1: that might as well be ten years. I didn't know

637
00:33:44,436 --> 00:33:47,836
Speaker 1: what to do. And I was on the East Coast

638
00:33:47,916 --> 00:33:50,796
Speaker 1: visiting you know, Ian and all these people, and I

639
00:33:50,876 --> 00:33:54,676
Speaker 1: get the phone call from Greg and he said, oh,

640
00:33:54,716 --> 00:33:58,316
Speaker 1: I quit, and I'll never forget this. I said, it's

641
00:33:58,356 --> 00:34:02,716
Speaker 1: your band. You can't quit. He said, well I quit.

642
00:34:02,996 --> 00:34:06,996
Speaker 1: And I hung up the phone and went, wow, that's that.

643
00:34:07,356 --> 00:34:09,356
Speaker 1: And when you're a young guy and you go from

644
00:34:09,356 --> 00:34:12,316
Speaker 1: a minimum wage job and your first day in LA

645
00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:15,516
Speaker 1: you're in the La Times and you're in this very

646
00:34:15,556 --> 00:34:20,516
Speaker 1: intense band with a very strong work ethos, and everything

647
00:34:20,636 --> 00:34:22,796
Speaker 1: is a big damn deal, and all of a sudden

648
00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 1: it's over in a phone call where the jet doesn't land.

649
00:34:25,476 --> 00:34:27,876
Speaker 1: It kind of drops out of the sky and goes

650
00:34:27,916 --> 00:34:31,076
Speaker 1: into a thousand pieces on the ground and you stagger

651
00:34:31,156 --> 00:34:35,796
Speaker 1: away from this wrecked bit of shrapnel. You don't go oh,

652
00:34:35,836 --> 00:34:38,596
Speaker 1: I'll do you like, ah, what do I do? How

653
00:34:38,596 --> 00:34:42,556
Speaker 1: do you breathe? Who am I without Black Flag? And

654
00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:46,876
Speaker 1: I'll never forget I read somewhere like on a fortune cookie.

655
00:34:47,316 --> 00:34:50,356
Speaker 1: If one seeks to change, one must be prepared to

656
00:34:50,716 --> 00:34:54,196
Speaker 1: seem stupid, and you got to go try new things

657
00:34:54,396 --> 00:34:58,076
Speaker 1: like okay. And right around that time, I got an

658
00:34:58,116 --> 00:35:02,476
Speaker 1: offer to audition for a film, and so I went

659
00:35:02,556 --> 00:35:05,396
Speaker 1: to New York and I auditioned for this film. I

660
00:35:05,436 --> 00:35:07,876
Speaker 1: have no memory of it, and I'm like, okay, I

661
00:35:07,916 --> 00:35:10,596
Speaker 1: did that. I'm going to try and act now. And

662
00:35:10,956 --> 00:35:14,956
Speaker 1: that was July August. By October I'm in Leeds, England

663
00:35:14,996 --> 00:35:17,636
Speaker 1: making my first solo record. So I realized, if I

664
00:35:17,636 --> 00:35:19,636
Speaker 1: don't hit the ground and run, I'm going to hit

665
00:35:19,636 --> 00:35:23,036
Speaker 1: the ground and rot. And so my old pal from Washington,

666
00:35:23,156 --> 00:35:25,636
Speaker 1: d C. Chris Haskett, he and I grew up together.

667
00:35:25,716 --> 00:35:27,836
Speaker 1: He had a really good band called the Enzymes in DC,

668
00:35:27,996 --> 00:35:29,956
Speaker 1: and he used to live in England. Chris said, as

669
00:35:29,956 --> 00:35:32,796
Speaker 1: a joke, if Black Flag ever breaks up, like that'll happen.

670
00:35:33,316 --> 00:35:35,916
Speaker 1: You and I should make a record, And I said okay,

671
00:35:36,276 --> 00:35:37,876
Speaker 1: and I called him. He was he happened to be

672
00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:40,516
Speaker 1: back in America visiting his folks because he was living

673
00:35:40,556 --> 00:35:43,996
Speaker 1: in Leeds, England. I said, hey, Chris, it's Henry the

674
00:35:44,036 --> 00:35:46,676
Speaker 1: Eagle has landed. I'm at I don't have a band,

675
00:35:46,676 --> 00:35:48,156
Speaker 1: And he was like, I got a band. I got

676
00:35:48,156 --> 00:35:50,956
Speaker 1: this like he had been waiting, like he knew before

677
00:35:50,996 --> 00:35:53,076
Speaker 1: I did, because I have a whole band there in Leeds.

678
00:35:53,156 --> 00:35:55,356
Speaker 1: I know a studio, I got a practice place. You're

679
00:35:55,396 --> 00:35:57,276
Speaker 1: gonna live in my room and we're gonna write songs.

680
00:35:57,396 --> 00:36:00,196
Speaker 1: I'll see you in England in like ten days. And

681
00:36:00,276 --> 00:36:03,396
Speaker 1: I had like twenty five hundred bucks to my name.

682
00:36:03,716 --> 00:36:06,996
Speaker 1: I got a standby flight and I remember getting out

683
00:36:07,036 --> 00:36:09,956
Speaker 1: of the plane. I took a bus a coach up

684
00:36:09,956 --> 00:36:15,196
Speaker 1: to Leeds with like a backpack and on fear of failure,

685
00:36:15,796 --> 00:36:19,596
Speaker 1: tons of tea and onion bogies. Chris Haskett and I

686
00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:22,716
Speaker 1: wrote like eighteen songs in four days, recorded him in

687
00:36:22,796 --> 00:36:25,716
Speaker 1: five days, like two take with his rhythm section from

688
00:36:25,716 --> 00:36:28,676
Speaker 1: his surf instrumental band. And I said, Hi, I'm Henry.

689
00:36:28,716 --> 00:36:31,236
Speaker 1: I'm about to terrify you the scariest lyrics you've ever heard,

690
00:36:31,396 --> 00:36:33,556
Speaker 1: and that they heard them like you're a scary guy.

691
00:36:33,596 --> 00:36:35,916
Speaker 1: I said, you have no idea, and so we made

692
00:36:35,996 --> 00:36:38,316
Speaker 1: a record called Hot Animal Machine and we made this

693
00:36:38,356 --> 00:36:41,596
Speaker 1: little record for no money and it's pretty good. And

694
00:36:41,756 --> 00:36:45,516
Speaker 1: so by April of eighty seven, like less than a

695
00:36:45,596 --> 00:36:47,676
Speaker 1: year after Black Flight broke up, I'm in band practice

696
00:36:47,676 --> 00:36:51,796
Speaker 1: in Trent, New Jersey with Andrew and sim of Greg

697
00:36:51,796 --> 00:36:55,076
Speaker 1: Gin's old instrumental band Gone, who had broken up Chris

698
00:36:55,516 --> 00:36:57,996
Speaker 1: from the Hot Eilm Machine record, and we called it

699
00:36:58,076 --> 00:37:00,596
Speaker 1: the Rawlins Band, And almost a year to the day,

700
00:37:00,996 --> 00:37:03,596
Speaker 1: we're back in leads at the same studio we recorded

701
00:37:03,596 --> 00:37:07,516
Speaker 1: Hot Eild Machine recording Lifetime, all new songs we wrote

702
00:37:07,516 --> 00:37:10,076
Speaker 1: on the road we were we road tested him, We

703
00:37:10,116 --> 00:37:15,316
Speaker 1: played him every night, and I since eighty one till

704
00:37:15,356 --> 00:37:19,396
Speaker 1: the end of the Rawlins Band, I never really kind

705
00:37:19,396 --> 00:37:21,916
Speaker 1: of put the mic down. Where is he he's writing songs?

706
00:37:21,916 --> 00:37:23,676
Speaker 1: Where is he now on tour? Where is he now

707
00:37:23,756 --> 00:37:26,476
Speaker 1: making a record? Around and round you go, like AC

708
00:37:26,636 --> 00:37:28,756
Speaker 1: DC and everyone else, trying to prove it every night.

709
00:37:29,116 --> 00:37:31,236
Speaker 1: And I did that for damn your twenty five years,

710
00:37:32,196 --> 00:37:35,476
Speaker 1: you know, and playing more than kind of any band

711
00:37:35,556 --> 00:37:39,836
Speaker 1: I know of besides maybe DA or like the Chili Peppers.

712
00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:42,076
Speaker 1: They go at it. They're gladiators, you know, they lay

713
00:37:42,156 --> 00:37:44,276
Speaker 1: leave for three month, three years. You know that they're

714
00:37:44,276 --> 00:37:47,996
Speaker 1: not kidding around. And we toured. That's what Black Flag

715
00:37:48,036 --> 00:37:50,796
Speaker 1: taught me. Play every night and suddenly you know, we're

716
00:37:50,916 --> 00:37:54,316
Speaker 1: rocking and Singapore, We're playing in Moscow. You know, I go,

717
00:37:54,396 --> 00:37:56,316
Speaker 1: you guys into this, They're like, yeah, we're playing in

718
00:37:56,356 --> 00:37:59,876
Speaker 1: Bootapest hungry. Who would have thought? And we just basically

719
00:37:59,956 --> 00:38:03,916
Speaker 1: said yes to every gig. And that's how I toured

720
00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:07,076
Speaker 1: to this day. We'll be right back with Henry Rollins

721
00:38:07,356 --> 00:38:13,436
Speaker 1: after a quick break. We're back with the rest of

722
00:38:13,516 --> 00:38:17,356
Speaker 1: Rick's conversation with Henry Rollins. What was the first speaking

723
00:38:18,316 --> 00:38:23,916
Speaker 1: engagement you did? Nineteen eighty three? The Harvey Kouberneck a

724
00:38:23,996 --> 00:38:28,276
Speaker 1: great local tastemaker producer in this town. He used to

725
00:38:28,316 --> 00:38:31,916
Speaker 1: do these shows where you get twenty people. Everyone gets

726
00:38:31,916 --> 00:38:35,956
Speaker 1: five minutes, and Dakowski would read from his little notebooks

727
00:38:35,956 --> 00:38:38,596
Speaker 1: of doom and talk about the apocalypse or whatever. I

728
00:38:38,636 --> 00:38:41,516
Speaker 1: would go with Chuck John Doe would go up and

729
00:38:41,556 --> 00:38:43,436
Speaker 1: sing a song. Jeffrey Lee Pierce to the Gun Club

730
00:38:43,436 --> 00:38:45,436
Speaker 1: would read from five minutes of his tour journal. It

731
00:38:45,516 --> 00:38:48,516
Speaker 1: was like really fun that real poets, performance artist, movie

732
00:38:48,516 --> 00:38:51,676
Speaker 1: stars would talk and I'd go with Chuck go into that.

733
00:38:51,756 --> 00:38:53,076
Speaker 1: We lived in the beach, we go to the big

734
00:38:53,196 --> 00:38:54,916
Speaker 1: I'd go to the big city, look at pretty women,

735
00:38:54,956 --> 00:38:57,796
Speaker 1: and you know, be in Hollywood with the real people.

736
00:38:58,276 --> 00:39:00,716
Speaker 1: And so one night Harvey came up to me at

737
00:39:00,756 --> 00:39:02,876
Speaker 1: the Loss of Club, I think, and he said, we're

738
00:39:02,876 --> 00:39:04,836
Speaker 1: doing a show next week. Chuck's on the bill. Why

739
00:39:04,836 --> 00:39:06,796
Speaker 1: don't you get on the bill. I'm like, what am

740
00:39:06,796 --> 00:39:08,316
Speaker 1: I gonna do? Say? You got a big mouth? You

741
00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:12,316
Speaker 1: never shut up five minutes, like ten bucks, I think

742
00:39:12,356 --> 00:39:13,796
Speaker 1: it was. I was like, and all I saw was

743
00:39:13,836 --> 00:39:16,436
Speaker 1: the money. I was like, ten dollars. How many almosts

744
00:39:16,476 --> 00:39:19,636
Speaker 1: can I get for ten? That's a lot of waves rancheros.

745
00:39:19,716 --> 00:39:22,316
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just hungry all the time. And so,

746
00:39:22,836 --> 00:39:25,876
Speaker 1: you know, with sheer hutzpah, I went on stage the

747
00:39:26,116 --> 00:39:31,276
Speaker 1: next week with some writing folded in my ass pocket.

748
00:39:31,516 --> 00:39:33,996
Speaker 1: Read The Two Things told a story about what had

749
00:39:33,996 --> 00:39:36,996
Speaker 1: happened the day before band practice, when a neo Nazi

750
00:39:37,076 --> 00:39:40,756
Speaker 1: tried to run over Greg with his car as Greg

751
00:39:40,836 --> 00:39:42,716
Speaker 1: was on his way to the little store to get

752
00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:45,196
Speaker 1: a thing of orange juice, which is just Tuesday for

753
00:39:45,276 --> 00:39:47,756
Speaker 1: Black Flag. The audience, their jaws were on the ground.

754
00:39:47,796 --> 00:39:50,596
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I got my seven minutes or whatever

755
00:39:50,916 --> 00:39:55,476
Speaker 1: are up, and huge applause, and I remember two things distinctly. One,

756
00:39:56,636 --> 00:39:59,796
Speaker 1: I don't need a band in that I have no stage. Fright,

757
00:39:59,996 --> 00:40:02,036
Speaker 1: give me another half an hour. I got this. I

758
00:40:02,156 --> 00:40:05,516
Speaker 1: love being alone with a microphone. I could be George Carlin.

759
00:40:05,716 --> 00:40:08,036
Speaker 1: I was raised on all those records. I'm not comparing myself.

760
00:40:08,036 --> 00:40:12,436
Speaker 1: I'm saying I can get by without a band. And

761
00:40:12,596 --> 00:40:14,316
Speaker 1: people coming up to me after it was going one's

762
00:40:14,316 --> 00:40:16,356
Speaker 1: your next show? I said, well, I'm leaving on tour.

763
00:40:16,436 --> 00:40:19,196
Speaker 1: They go, no, no, not the band. When you just talk?

764
00:40:19,276 --> 00:40:22,676
Speaker 1: I went never. I got my ten dollar bill. Then

765
00:40:22,716 --> 00:40:25,996
Speaker 1: Harvey came up to me and he said, okay, you're

766
00:40:26,036 --> 00:40:29,476
Speaker 1: a natural, and I said whatever. He said, how about this.

767
00:40:30,076 --> 00:40:33,116
Speaker 1: I booked half the poets on tonight's stage. I manage them.

768
00:40:33,916 --> 00:40:36,196
Speaker 1: Three of them are doing a poetry reading at a

769
00:40:36,276 --> 00:40:40,836
Speaker 1: bookstore in wherever. Why don't you do fifteen minutes and

770
00:40:40,836 --> 00:40:45,076
Speaker 1: I'll give you twenty five dollars? Okay. Within By the

771
00:40:45,196 --> 00:40:47,996
Speaker 1: end of eighty three beginning of eighty four, some of

772
00:40:47,996 --> 00:40:51,236
Speaker 1: those poets, much to their chagrin, were opening for me

773
00:40:51,996 --> 00:40:55,036
Speaker 1: because I was drawing people. By the end of Black

774
00:40:55,076 --> 00:40:59,476
Speaker 1: Flag in some major cities. I could draw almost as

775
00:40:59,476 --> 00:41:04,196
Speaker 1: many people as Black Flag on my own and not

776
00:41:04,316 --> 00:41:08,156
Speaker 1: everyone in the band was cool about this. And so

777
00:41:08,316 --> 00:41:13,956
Speaker 1: suddenly I'm doing radio interviews about my writing and my speaking.

778
00:41:14,356 --> 00:41:17,636
Speaker 1: I'm on the cover of this magazine because of spoken word,

779
00:41:18,436 --> 00:41:20,956
Speaker 1: and so I had this whole other thing. And by

780
00:41:21,876 --> 00:41:25,036
Speaker 1: automn eighty five, when the Loose Nut Black Flag Tour

781
00:41:25,156 --> 00:41:29,156
Speaker 1: came to an end, I left almost immediately across America,

782
00:41:29,436 --> 00:41:32,836
Speaker 1: twelve to fifty people a night with our old sound

783
00:41:32,876 --> 00:41:35,596
Speaker 1: man driving the van and doing sound for me. And

784
00:41:35,636 --> 00:41:38,996
Speaker 1: we just did a talking tour from LA to New

785
00:41:39,076 --> 00:41:42,876
Speaker 1: York and back and it. And then by eighty five

786
00:41:43,516 --> 00:41:48,116
Speaker 1: I got invited to a poetry festival in Holland. Sure

787
00:41:48,676 --> 00:41:52,316
Speaker 1: it's me and Linton Queezy Johnson and who came up

788
00:41:52,316 --> 00:41:55,396
Speaker 1: to me after he said righteous mister Rollins, I said,

789
00:41:55,596 --> 00:41:59,636
Speaker 1: thank you, sir. Bill Burrows was on the bill, Jeffrey

790
00:41:59,676 --> 00:42:03,796
Speaker 1: Lee Pierce, all kinds of people, and with the Rollins band,

791
00:42:03,956 --> 00:42:07,476
Speaker 1: I finished the band tour, we made the Lifetime record.

792
00:42:07,516 --> 00:42:09,676
Speaker 1: They all went home and I was debt to all

793
00:42:09,716 --> 00:42:11,716
Speaker 1: of them. I owed them all money. So I left

794
00:42:11,716 --> 00:42:15,436
Speaker 1: on a talking tour like three days later, I'm doing

795
00:42:15,476 --> 00:42:18,276
Speaker 1: that entire tour again. And so I got back to

796
00:42:18,436 --> 00:42:21,596
Speaker 1: La December eighty seven and did two sold out nights

797
00:42:21,596 --> 00:42:25,156
Speaker 1: at the loss Of Club with Hubert Selby of Last

798
00:42:25,156 --> 00:42:29,676
Speaker 1: Exit to Brooklyn Fame opening for me crazy and so

799
00:42:30,356 --> 00:42:32,876
Speaker 1: from then to now I now do twenty one twenty

800
00:42:32,876 --> 00:42:36,796
Speaker 1: two countries. I sell out multiple knights at the Sydney

801
00:42:36,836 --> 00:42:42,196
Speaker 1: Opera House. I mean it's crazy. And you know, I

802
00:42:42,316 --> 00:42:48,836
Speaker 1: get amazing offers like keynote our convention. What's the convention

803
00:42:48,876 --> 00:42:53,916
Speaker 1: about software and progress? And make a speech about where

804
00:42:53,916 --> 00:42:57,636
Speaker 1: the world needs to go in the future. Really, Oh,

805
00:42:57,676 --> 00:43:02,156
Speaker 1: we think you're perfect for that. Okay, and speak at

806
00:43:02,156 --> 00:43:04,876
Speaker 1: this commencement. Just get these kids out of college. I've

807
00:43:04,916 --> 00:43:08,076
Speaker 1: done that a couple of times. I don't I take

808
00:43:08,116 --> 00:43:11,276
Speaker 1: work seriously. I take dedication seriously. But luckily I don't

809
00:43:11,316 --> 00:43:14,676
Speaker 1: take myself seriously. And so it's it's opened up this

810
00:43:14,716 --> 00:43:18,756
Speaker 1: whole other thing for me where I'm not the guy

811
00:43:18,796 --> 00:43:22,316
Speaker 1: in a band and a lot of my peers they

812
00:43:22,436 --> 00:43:25,156
Speaker 1: go out and we're doing the first album again twenty

813
00:43:25,156 --> 00:43:28,996
Speaker 1: five years later. Okay, I want to come along, No, no,

814
00:43:29,036 --> 00:43:33,076
Speaker 1: I don't. I'll pay money. I'll go see it but coming, no, no, no,

815
00:43:33,956 --> 00:43:35,756
Speaker 1: and so I don't have to go out there and

816
00:43:35,956 --> 00:43:39,996
Speaker 1: remember this one kids. My dad does. And so that's

817
00:43:39,996 --> 00:43:42,516
Speaker 1: where it is now when you're almost sixty, like you know,

818
00:43:42,716 --> 00:43:46,756
Speaker 1: I see all these old men. I know that old

819
00:43:46,756 --> 00:43:49,716
Speaker 1: guy from somewhere. Of course I'm his age. He was

820
00:43:49,756 --> 00:43:52,396
Speaker 1: at my shows. I remember that guy. The smart thing

821
00:43:52,436 --> 00:43:55,356
Speaker 1: I did is a younger man who was One day

822
00:43:55,396 --> 00:43:58,396
Speaker 1: I woke up in my bed and I went, I'm

823
00:43:58,436 --> 00:44:00,716
Speaker 1: done with music. I don't hate it. I just have

824
00:44:00,756 --> 00:44:03,276
Speaker 1: no more lyrics. There's no more toothpaste in the tube.

825
00:44:03,636 --> 00:44:05,516
Speaker 1: I called my manager at the time. I said I'm

826
00:44:05,556 --> 00:44:07,956
Speaker 1: done with music. And that was you know, fifteen percent

827
00:44:07,956 --> 00:44:11,356
Speaker 1: of that was a good thing for him. He's like, no, no,

828
00:44:11,436 --> 00:44:16,556
Speaker 1: I thought yes, And so luckily I had enough, you know, movies, voiceover,

829
00:44:16,716 --> 00:44:20,716
Speaker 1: documentary work, writing talking where that just filled in and

830
00:44:20,756 --> 00:44:23,956
Speaker 1: now I'm busier than ever. But um, I walked away

831
00:44:24,596 --> 00:44:27,396
Speaker 1: before I had to start saying, hey, kids, remember this one.

832
00:44:27,596 --> 00:44:30,356
Speaker 1: So I didn't have to put it on and dada

833
00:44:31,356 --> 00:44:33,836
Speaker 1: and go out there and put on the dog and

834
00:44:34,636 --> 00:44:37,676
Speaker 1: yelped for my dinner. And I've had gentle discussions with

835
00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:42,476
Speaker 1: major rock stars who you've produced and why you go

836
00:44:42,476 --> 00:44:43,836
Speaker 1: out there and I go, you go out and you

837
00:44:43,836 --> 00:44:46,556
Speaker 1: play those same songs every night for the last forty years.

838
00:44:46,996 --> 00:44:50,556
Speaker 1: And one of these people who I love dearly, said, yeah,

839
00:44:50,596 --> 00:44:52,116
Speaker 1: that's what people want. I go, you want to give

840
00:44:52,156 --> 00:44:55,236
Speaker 1: him what they wanted? What? Yeah, he's an older school guy,

841
00:44:55,356 --> 00:44:57,796
Speaker 1: even older than me, And he said, yeah, that you

842
00:44:57,796 --> 00:45:01,476
Speaker 1: want to make people happy. I'm like, you do Huh,

843
00:45:01,516 --> 00:45:04,276
Speaker 1: I never thought of that. That never has occurred to me.

844
00:45:04,796 --> 00:45:07,676
Speaker 1: What do you do? I go this what I's what's

845
00:45:07,716 --> 00:45:11,116
Speaker 1: on next? He went, huh, how's that treating you? I'm like, well,

846
00:45:11,636 --> 00:45:14,956
Speaker 1: I need must here to get home. But the two

847
00:45:14,956 --> 00:45:17,716
Speaker 1: different schools and his whole thing is what you put

848
00:45:17,716 --> 00:45:20,676
Speaker 1: on the show. Everyone goes yay. You play what everyone

849
00:45:20,716 --> 00:45:24,316
Speaker 1: wants to hear, and everyone's happy. And he said you're not.

850
00:45:24,396 --> 00:45:26,716
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, not necessarily. If they happen to like

851
00:45:26,756 --> 00:45:29,356
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, cool, If they don't, they can bite me.

852
00:45:29,836 --> 00:45:33,636
Speaker 1: And I'm sure in the last few years he has

853
00:45:33,676 --> 00:45:35,716
Speaker 1: sung that one, that one, that one, and that one

854
00:45:36,036 --> 00:45:40,396
Speaker 1: for the five hundred and seventy millionth time, and fifty

855
00:45:40,436 --> 00:45:43,196
Speaker 1: thousand people went ya, that's just not for me. The

856
00:45:43,756 --> 00:45:45,516
Speaker 1: right way for any of this stuff to go. It

857
00:45:45,596 --> 00:45:49,036
Speaker 1: really is up to the person it is and everyone's fine.

858
00:45:49,076 --> 00:45:51,116
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's doing it their way as long as

859
00:45:51,116 --> 00:45:53,476
Speaker 1: no one's getting hurt. I used to put bands down

860
00:45:53,476 --> 00:45:54,756
Speaker 1: when I was a younger man. I had a big

861
00:45:54,796 --> 00:45:58,996
Speaker 1: head full esteem. I can't do that now. Music and culture,

862
00:45:59,356 --> 00:46:01,676
Speaker 1: you know, America is in a very interesting time right now.

863
00:46:01,676 --> 00:46:04,756
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say bad. I would just say eventual and interesting.

864
00:46:05,196 --> 00:46:07,156
Speaker 1: It's been. We've been working towards where we are now

865
00:46:07,196 --> 00:46:09,716
Speaker 1: for quite a while. If you watch this stuff, you're

866
00:46:09,716 --> 00:46:14,116
Speaker 1: not that surprised. But as far as culturally, I don't

867
00:46:14,116 --> 00:46:19,316
Speaker 1: know how much you voulivoo and hobnob in La. I

868
00:46:19,356 --> 00:46:22,836
Speaker 1: don't think La has ever been cooler since I've been

869
00:46:22,876 --> 00:46:26,036
Speaker 1: living here. As far as having an analog pulse, people

870
00:46:26,076 --> 00:46:28,796
Speaker 1: you want to actually talk to again, Clubs you want

871
00:46:28,796 --> 00:46:31,516
Speaker 1: to go to, local bands, you want to see every

872
00:46:31,556 --> 00:46:34,356
Speaker 1: time they play. Like if I was a younger man,

873
00:46:34,436 --> 00:46:37,596
Speaker 1: i'd be out more often. I just can't do five

874
00:46:37,636 --> 00:46:40,556
Speaker 1: hours to sleep and function all the time. I'd be

875
00:46:40,596 --> 00:46:43,236
Speaker 1: out way more often because there's so many good bands,

876
00:46:43,636 --> 00:46:47,716
Speaker 1: and there's so many great clubs being run by thoughtful,

877
00:46:47,876 --> 00:46:53,476
Speaker 1: conscientious people who love music. I've never seen audiences so cool.

878
00:46:54,116 --> 00:46:57,196
Speaker 1: The other nights at the Palladium for Labucherettes, that's a

879
00:46:57,236 --> 00:47:01,156
Speaker 1: band and bikini kill and it's like sold out four nights.

880
00:47:01,476 --> 00:47:04,396
Speaker 1: It's a love fest in there. There's no fights, no

881
00:47:04,396 --> 00:47:07,596
Speaker 1: one's getting their t shirt torn off, no one's getting groped.

882
00:47:07,996 --> 00:47:09,756
Speaker 1: And these are the gigs I see these days. I

883
00:47:09,796 --> 00:47:12,036
Speaker 1: go to gigs and there's like all these gay kids there.

884
00:47:12,036 --> 00:47:17,636
Speaker 1: Everyone's cool, like because that's nothing like the gigs I got.

885
00:47:17,716 --> 00:47:21,036
Speaker 1: You know, it was a blender of flesh and testosterone

886
00:47:21,036 --> 00:47:24,556
Speaker 1: when I got here. And so LA's never, in my opinion,

887
00:47:24,716 --> 00:47:28,556
Speaker 1: never been a cooler place to dig what's happening. And

888
00:47:28,636 --> 00:47:32,236
Speaker 1: so when someone gets cynical or everything sucks, I'm like, wow,

889
00:47:32,876 --> 00:47:36,956
Speaker 1: you've just decided today sucks, because the truth is it's

890
00:47:37,036 --> 00:47:39,356
Speaker 1: really exciting and there's a lot of things to fix.

891
00:47:39,436 --> 00:47:45,596
Speaker 1: But culture is really, I think, kind of is answering

892
00:47:45,756 --> 00:47:52,276
Speaker 1: some howling painful moan of homophobia that homophobia and racism

893
00:47:52,316 --> 00:47:56,636
Speaker 1: and misogyny in genders or illicits music is going on. No,

894
00:47:56,716 --> 00:47:58,996
Speaker 1: we got this, here's the news. We're going to neutralize

895
00:47:59,036 --> 00:48:03,356
Speaker 1: that with this, And so it's a great time to

896
00:48:03,676 --> 00:48:06,236
Speaker 1: be open minded things are better when you go to

897
00:48:06,276 --> 00:48:09,916
Speaker 1: the gig. Everything's better once you're you know, you're perforate

898
00:48:09,956 --> 00:48:12,116
Speaker 1: your can with a few holes and have to remind

899
00:48:12,156 --> 00:48:14,476
Speaker 1: myself of that a lot. You know, I will sit

900
00:48:14,516 --> 00:48:17,756
Speaker 1: alone in brood, so I push myself out the door.

901
00:48:18,236 --> 00:48:21,436
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming in and having a chat. Yeah, man,

902
00:48:21,516 --> 00:48:23,076
Speaker 1: I hope that was though. It was really fun to

903
00:48:23,076 --> 00:48:28,876
Speaker 1: talk to you. Same thanks to Henry Rollins for taking

904
00:48:28,876 --> 00:48:30,956
Speaker 1: the time to chat with Ray. You can hear a

905
00:48:30,996 --> 00:48:33,756
Speaker 1: favorite Black Flag and Rollins band songs by heading to

906
00:48:33,836 --> 00:48:36,916
Speaker 1: Broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to

907
00:48:36,956 --> 00:48:40,436
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast.

908
00:48:40,716 --> 00:48:43,876
Speaker 1: We're can find all our new episodes. You can follow

909
00:48:43,996 --> 00:48:47,236
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Records produced with

910
00:48:47,276 --> 00:48:51,636
Speaker 1: helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and

911
00:48:51,756 --> 00:48:55,836
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive

912
00:48:55,836 --> 00:48:59,956
Speaker 1: producer is Mila Bell. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.

913
00:49:00,116 --> 00:49:02,276
Speaker 1: If you love the show and others from Pushkin Industries,

914
00:49:02,356 --> 00:49:06,236
Speaker 1: considered becoming a pushnick. Pushnick is a podcast subscription that

915
00:49:06,316 --> 00:49:09,836
Speaker 1: offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad freeless name for four

916
00:49:09,996 --> 00:49:13,196
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushnick exclusively on Apple

917
00:49:13,236 --> 00:49:16,396
Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, of course,

918
00:49:16,436 --> 00:49:18,516
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

919
00:49:18,516 --> 00:49:22,116
Speaker 1: podcast app. At the Musics by Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond,