1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240
Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, Let's go.

2
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,800
Speaker 1: Let's Giants on My Giants Mobul give me some Jump.

3
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network.

4
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 2: Let's Roll.

5
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 3: Welcome to this edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought

6
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 3: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.

7
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 3: John Schmolke with you front of the program. Been doing

8
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 3: this a long time with us. Sam Monson from Pro

9
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,319
Speaker 3: Football Focus. Sam, we are past Thanksgiving, We're in the

10
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,599
Speaker 3: stretch run about a third of the year to go here.

11
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 2: How you holding up?

12
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, doing okay, doing okay. I think there's been some

13
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,639
Speaker 4: fun storylines in the NFL, not so much for the Giants, though,

14
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 4: Tommy DeVito's changing that the last few weeks. So yeah,

15
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 4: it's it's been good.

16
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 2: All right.

17
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,760
Speaker 3: So let's start with the positive stuff for the Giants,

18
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,920
Speaker 3: and I think it begins it ends with Dexter Lawrence,

19
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 3: who I don't think anyone could argue has been the

20
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 3: best player on the team this year. I've been raving

21
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,680
Speaker 3: about his play just watching him on tape. Give me

22
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,400
Speaker 3: some good PFF context to exactly how dominant Dexter has

23
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 3: been as a nose tackle.

24
00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Dexter Lawrence is faskey going toe to

25
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 4: toe with Aaron Donald for the best you know, pass rushing,

26
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 4: best PFF grade, best number of total pressures, all those

27
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 4: kinds of things. But the difference is dex A Lawrence

28
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 4: is doing it as a nose tackle, and you know

29
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 4: that that's become a term. I think that's a little

30
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,240
Speaker 4: bit it's kind of lost its meaning in recent years. Right,

31
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,119
Speaker 4: not many people play a nose tackle anymore. They play

32
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,240
Speaker 4: a guy that's more of a nose tackle than a

33
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,279
Speaker 4: three technique, but they're not lined up over the center

34
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,039
Speaker 4: snap after snap. That the old days of the true

35
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,119
Speaker 4: heads up nose tackle, the two gaps and all those

36
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,240
Speaker 4: kinds of things are kind of gone. But dex A

37
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,559
Speaker 4: Lawrence does play most of his snaps lined up over

38
00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,920
Speaker 4: the center like he is a true nose tackle, and

39
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 4: his stats and his pass rushing production from nose tackle alignments,

40
00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,960
Speaker 4: like the gap between him and the next guy is insane.

41
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 4: There's nobody else even in the same vicinity is what

42
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 4: he's doing from that kind of alignment. So it is

43
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 4: a genuinely incredible performance. And he's built on what he

44
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 4: did last year, which was sort of put himself into

45
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 4: that world of you know, the best interior players in

46
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,079
Speaker 4: the NFL.

47
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 2: It's so easy to get double teamed in there.

48
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 3: And I think that that's kind of the theme, right,

49
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 3: I mean, his pass rush win rate is basically tied

50
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 3: with Nick Bosa, who is propinially a top five edge rusher,

51
00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 3: top three edge rusher in football. How is he able

52
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 3: to do this either beating double teams or how the

53
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,640
Speaker 3: Giants scheme maybe helps with all that blitzing create some

54
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 3: of those single teams against Again, we've seen the progress

55
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:38,920
Speaker 3: in the draft, ear Samuel, He's gotten along in this

56
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,360
Speaker 3: undersized centers. Right, this is the answer to the undersized center.

57
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a little bit of all of that in there.

58
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 4: That the scheme definitely helps keep him from being as

59
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,800
Speaker 4: double teamed as he would be if they were running,

60
00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 4: you know, a more conservative scheme that didn't blitz as

61
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 4: much and just rush for all the time. He would

62
00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 4: definitely see more double teams in those scenarios and are

63
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 4: able to get him one on one more than they

64
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 4: would because they blit so much. But you're right, like

65
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,639
Speaker 4: he is, we've been in this world where those those

66
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 4: two gapping nose tackles have disappeared because everybody's been getting

67
00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,679
Speaker 4: smaller faster, you know, targeting those single gaps, and so

68
00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 4: everything is sort of smaller along the trenches.

69
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:20,120
Speaker 1: You know.

70
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,799
Speaker 4: Offensive linemen are smaller, defensive linemen are smaller. And then

71
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 4: you have a guy like Dexter Lauren shows up and

72
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,359
Speaker 4: goes back to that I'm going to play over the middle,

73
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 4: and every one of these undersized centers is going to

74
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 4: have to deal with a guy that is fifty pounds

75
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 4: heavier than they are and has moves and can rush

76
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,840
Speaker 4: the passer and all those kinds of things. It is

77
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 4: number one, it's a shock to the system. Most of

78
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,480
Speaker 4: these guys just aren't used.

79
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 2: To dealing with that.

80
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 4: And number two, they're just overmatched at that point. Like

81
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 4: whether they're prepared for it or not, there's only so

82
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 4: much you can do to offset the fact that this

83
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,760
Speaker 4: guy is fifty pounds heavier than you are and knows

84
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 4: what he's doing with it. All.

85
00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 3: Right, now, let's go to Kevon Thibodeau because I'm on

86
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 3: two minds on this, Sam. I want you to try

87
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,240
Speaker 3: to help me sort it out a little bit. It's

88
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 3: very difficult to get double digit sacks in wing Martindale system.

89
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 3: Never happened to Baltimore. Caveon Thibadau is the first, got

90
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 3: to do it. Eleven sacks, twelve games in check the box. Great,

91
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 3: Yet you look at some of the underlying numbers that

92
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,720
Speaker 3: are maybe more predictive, right, things like pressures. He is

93
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 3: eleven sacks, just thirty six pressures. Ten of those are

94
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,440
Speaker 3: of the unblocked variety, right, nine point eight percent pressure

95
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 3: win rate according to you guys over at PFF. So

96
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 3: how do you sort through what Cavon Thibodeau has done

97
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,280
Speaker 3: here in your number two? How should Giant fans view

98
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 3: a season?

99
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 4: I think he's been I think he's developing into a

100
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,919
Speaker 4: solid edge defender kind of cross the board and sometimes

101
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 4: those guys are gonna have very few sacks, Sometimes they're

102
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 4: gonna have a lot of sacks, right. I wouldn't judge

103
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,840
Speaker 4: him on the sack number. I think if you're looking

104
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,200
Speaker 4: at that and saying eleven twelve sacks, therefore he's having

105
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,719
Speaker 4: a great year. Therefore everything's good, He's on the right track,

106
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 4: He's going to be the superstar. I think that's leading

107
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 4: you down a pathway that's that's just not right, right.

108
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,760
Speaker 4: But I think you can look at him and say

109
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 4: he does a few things pretty well. He's able to

110
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 4: get some pressure, He's got a very good kind of

111
00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 4: closing burst and acceleration when he gets a clean run.

112
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,479
Speaker 4: He's his work rate. Ironically, the thing that he was

113
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,919
Speaker 4: criticized for the most is the draft prospect might be

114
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 4: as big as strength, Like he is one of those

115
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 4: high motor guys now, and so many of his best

116
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,360
Speaker 4: plays are when the quarterback breaks out of the pocket

117
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 4: or something you know, changes and gives him a little

118
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:30,600
Speaker 4: bit of a crease and lets him get at the

119
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,039
Speaker 4: quarterback like those are his best plays that the hustle

120
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,360
Speaker 4: plays that people kind of question whether they were there

121
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,479
Speaker 4: or not at draft time. What he struggles with the

122
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 4: most is just clean, decisive wins. His hand placement. His

123
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,600
Speaker 4: hand work is sort of inconsistent. There's a couple of

124
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,840
Speaker 4: plays against Mackay Beckton in particular, where he did it

125
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,000
Speaker 4: a great job of swatting his hands aside and made

126
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 4: some of his best plays against the Jets. But there

127
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,000
Speaker 4: are other plays against guys like Charles Lenno of Washington

128
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,680
Speaker 4: where Leno is a capable, not great left tackle, and

129
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 4: Leno's like almost every single time stopped him with his punch,

130
00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,640
Speaker 4: and he wasn't able to kind of disengage. He was

131
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,760
Speaker 4: forced deeper than he wanted to be. So I think

132
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 4: there's some good and some bad on his tape. But

133
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 4: right now he's already, you know, a capable starter. The

134
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 4: question is how much better can he get at those things?

135
00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he's been willing to do the

136
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 3: dirty work in the run game too, which again to

137
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 3: your point in the draft process, that's what people question.

138
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 3: I think he's actually done a pretty good job at

139
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,760
Speaker 3: those sort of things. Tante Benks, you know he's somebody

140
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,840
Speaker 3: that I know you guys liked. I thought I loved

141
00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 3: him as a prospect of coming out. I thought he

142
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,159
Speaker 3: fit Wings system really well. And I think when you

143
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,280
Speaker 3: watch him this year, you love the traits. Right, they

144
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,280
Speaker 3: put him one on one against the best wide receivers.

145
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 3: He shows the speed, he shows the physicality, but I

146
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 3: think you see the rookie mistakes too, right, penalty issues.

147
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,080
Speaker 3: He's gotten beat for some big plays, which I think

148
00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,720
Speaker 3: is reflected in the grade you guys have for him.

149
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,960
Speaker 2: So, if you're a Giant fan, similar question to the

150
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:57,479
Speaker 2: one asked.

151
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,839
Speaker 3: You about Tivideau, how would you view his rookie year

152
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 3: for a player in a position that can be very

153
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,599
Speaker 3: volatile from season to season.

154
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, corners a really difficult one because you're right, it

155
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 4: is extremely volatile. And also you know, there's a difference

156
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 4: instead of how bad you're beaten, right, like, all these

157
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 4: guys are going to get beaten sometimes. Yeah, Number one

158
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 4: is how often are you getting beaten and how much

159
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 4: are you giving up? That's the first sort of differentiator,

160
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,560
Speaker 4: And then the second question is, Okay, now in the

161
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,560
Speaker 4: places where you're getting beaten, how bad is it?

162
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:24,800
Speaker 2: Right?

163
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 4: Are we getting toasted or are we just giving up

164
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 4: some catches? And I think his or more of the latter.

165
00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,640
Speaker 4: He's rarely getting beaten badly. There's a few mental mistakes

166
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 4: in there that are sort of I guess they're bad losses,

167
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 4: but only because he screwed something up mentally on the

168
00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,400
Speaker 4: play and wasn't where he should have been. But where

169
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,080
Speaker 4: he's actually in coverage defending somebody, he's rarely beaten badly,

170
00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 4: and a lot of his losses are either giving up

171
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 4: a little too bit too much at the break, particularly physically.

172
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,880
Speaker 4: Guys are able to sort of use that the sort

173
00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 4: of subtle pushing off. That's legal and just part of

174
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 4: playing in the NFL, right, He's susceptible to that a

175
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 4: little bit. And then the other thing is he tends

176
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 4: to lapse into playing when he plays in man coverage,

177
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,800
Speaker 4: which is his strength, he lapses a little bit too

178
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 4: much into just solely focused blinkers on the receiver and

179
00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 4: forget about when the ball is going to arrive. And colleges,

180
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,080
Speaker 4: a lot of colleges teach that as a kind of

181
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 4: a way of doing it. But NFL receivers are just

182
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 4: too good. Like if you do that, they're going to

183
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,960
Speaker 4: have late hands and the ball is going to be

184
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 4: past you before you know what's happening. You don't have

185
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 4: the time to focus just on the receiver and then

186
00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 4: wait till his hand show and try and break the

187
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 4: ball up. There was a play, a touchdown he gave

188
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,320
Speaker 4: up against DK Metcalf, I think where he's basically got

189
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 4: him in the end zone. He's got it almost hugging

190
00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,360
Speaker 4: him on the play. Jo Smith fires the ball and

191
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 4: like Metcalf's hands don't go up until the ball's even

192
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,200
Speaker 4: passed Banks, there's nothing he can do about it. Like

193
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,880
Speaker 4: it's literally a touchdown catch before he even knows the

194
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 4: ball's arrived. It's ridiculous, But those are the kind of

195
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,080
Speaker 4: plays that NFL players can make, and a lot of

196
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 4: his sort of pathway I think is going to be

197
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,600
Speaker 4: learning that, like figuring out what like this is a

198
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,800
Speaker 4: different difficulty setting now at the NFL level, and you

199
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,800
Speaker 4: need to raise your game to match it. And I

200
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 4: think the traits he's shown say he can do that,

201
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,559
Speaker 4: but it's no guarantee that it's going to happen.

202
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 3: How do you view the state of defense in the NFL?

203
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,839
Speaker 3: We know the points per game overall are down in

204
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 3: the league historically, teams are scoring less. I wonder how

205
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,320
Speaker 3: much of that is defense. How much is that some

206
00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 3: of the quarterbacks we've seen have to go out there

207
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,439
Speaker 3: and play this year across the league with all the

208
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 3: injuries and things like that. Do you still think teams

209
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 3: are didn't continue to lean into this early down quarters,

210
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 3: cover two too, safeties, deep stuff, or are we seeing

211
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 3: teams starting to trend back a little bit more towards

212
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,280
Speaker 3: the more aggressive man to man, show some more pressure,

213
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 3: you know, try to force more in completions rather than

214
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 3: play that ben but don't break.

215
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 2: Where do you see defense heading right?

216
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,839
Speaker 3: Now in Week thirteen of the National Football League.

217
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think defense has had definitely fought

218
00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 4: back this year relative to the last few seasons. I

219
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,319
Speaker 4: think that approach of taking away explosive plays is still

220
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,520
Speaker 4: going to continue. I think it's the right way of

221
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 4: doing things. Explosive plays became such an important element of

222
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,960
Speaker 4: offense over the last ten years, and now defenses have

223
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,000
Speaker 4: decided the best way of doing things is to take

224
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 4: those away as much as possible and live with everything else.

225
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,839
Speaker 4: And now they've also figured out how to kind of

226
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 4: blend that with elements that make it more difficult for

227
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 4: them to just kill you with a thousand paper cuts, right,

228
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,559
Speaker 4: because it's not like everyone's just gone back to running

229
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,640
Speaker 4: the Tampa two right the way the Bucks ran it

230
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 4: at the start of the century or Lovey Smith Chicago

231
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 4: Bears teams are too good on offense at knowing where

232
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 4: the gaps are, those types of schemes and attacking them anyway.

233
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 4: They're too efficient.

234
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 2: So now you.

235
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 4: See those types of coverage shells teamed with all these

236
00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 4: creeper pressures and simulated pressures, and it's more complicated for

237
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 4: offenses and you get games like we had last Monday

238
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 4: Night Chicago Minnesota where both teams were just kind of

239
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:10,280
Speaker 4: paralyzed by the defense. And yeah, obviously the quarterbacks in

240
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,760
Speaker 4: the league this year moved the needle as well. Like

241
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 4: we had what ten quarterbacks, rookie quarterbacks starting in a

242
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 4: season that's crazy that it's either a record or it's

243
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 4: pretty close to it. Eight of them were starting in

244
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 4: a single weekend. I mean, even just Aaron Rodgers going

245
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 4: down after four snaps probably moves the needle on like

246
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,640
Speaker 4: the level of offensive play over a seventeen game season

247
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 4: at like on a league wide level. So I think

248
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,760
Speaker 4: we've had a lot of good quarterbacks not play this

249
00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 4: year and a lot of bad quarterbacks playing. But it's

250
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,199
Speaker 4: all those things together is producing those numbers of offense

251
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,640
Speaker 4: being down, defense being up.

252
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot of disguise right post snap

253
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 3: you show one thing going to another to try to

254
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 3: confuse some of those offenses.

255
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,040
Speaker 2: I'm one hundred percent with you.

256
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 5: You're ready for a change. Payday comes early with citizens,

257
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 5: So go to that retreat, knew you move to the now.

258
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 5: You're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are you

259
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 5: ready for all that life brings?

260
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 3: Giants Little Podcast brought to you by Citizens, the official

261
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,680
Speaker 3: bank of the Giants from game data. Every day, Citizens

262
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 3: is made ready for Giant fans with insights, guidance, and solutions.

263
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,679
Speaker 3: Learn more at citizens bank dot com. Say I want

264
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,199
Speaker 3: to jump now over to the offensive side of the

265
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 3: ball for the Giants. How much can you really evaluate

266
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,800
Speaker 3: what Daniel Jones did when he was healthy this year?

267
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 3: And it was not pretty. The numbers were not good

268
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 3: based on what was going on around him, specifically upfront

269
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,760
Speaker 3: where they lost Andrew Thomas in week one. John Michael

270
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,320
Speaker 3: Schmitz gets hurt, and then you know you're playing a

271
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,240
Speaker 3: tough schedule against teams like Dallas in San Francisco, the

272
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 3: floodgates open. How do you even judge what you had

273
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,319
Speaker 3: given what that line looked like the first six to

274
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 3: seven games of the year.

275
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:55,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's tough. It was a bad situation. It reminded me.

276
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 4: It reminds me a little bit of Carolina right now,

277
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 4: right where everything is bad and it's difficult to sort

278
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,960
Speaker 4: of isolate any one element and say, well, let's figure

279
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 4: out what we've got here, because the line is bad,

280
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 4: the receivers are bad, the coaching scheme is bad, the

281
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 4: quarterback is bad. It's all bad. So trying to isolate

282
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 4: any one bad element and figure out just how bad

283
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 4: that is is hard. Now, the only thing you can

284
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,440
Speaker 4: do is do a bit of ab testing, right, and

285
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,839
Speaker 4: we saw that for one game in Carolina when Bryce

286
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,480
Speaker 4: Young was hurt and Andy Dalton comes in and everything

287
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 4: looked better.

288
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:24,319
Speaker 2: Right.

289
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,520
Speaker 4: Dalton is clearly at this point a better option in

290
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 4: a bad situation for the Panthers in terms of if

291
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,600
Speaker 4: they have to win a game tomorrow. Right, if they

292
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,959
Speaker 4: needed to win a game tomorrow or their life depended

293
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 4: on it, Andy Dalton would be the starting quarterback. But

294
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 4: obviously there's no purpose to that on a long term basis,

295
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,800
Speaker 4: so there's no reason for them to go back to it.

296
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 3: At what point for you as someone that analyzes this,

297
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,480
Speaker 3: does offensive line play become so poor that it's hard

298
00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,040
Speaker 3: to figure out exactly what else is going on on offense?

299
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's tough. The Giants have definitely been

300
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 4: over that lone for a period of time. I don't

301
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 4: know if there's any sort of one hard and fast line,

302
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,960
Speaker 4: but you know, you can it's kind of like you

303
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,600
Speaker 4: know when you see it, and the Giants have had

304
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 4: that kind of line. You know, I've used a number

305
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 4: of forty five percent for a long time of like,

306
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,599
Speaker 4: if you're under pressure more than forty five percent of

307
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,040
Speaker 4: the time, you basically don't have any chance of functioning

308
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 4: as an offense over any period of time. You know,

309
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 4: sometimes you can get a game, it will work fine,

310
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 4: but if that's your level over the season, it's just

311
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,040
Speaker 4: not going to happen. And it almost doesn't matter where

312
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 4: that pressure is coming from. Forty five percent is just

313
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,520
Speaker 4: the amount of time the quarterback is going to be

314
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,600
Speaker 4: under pressure. Only some of that is going to be

315
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 4: on the offensive line, some of it's going to be

316
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,000
Speaker 4: on the quarterback, some of it's going to be on

317
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,320
Speaker 4: the scheme. But it doesn't really matter for the purposes

318
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 4: of you know, is the offense going to work If

319
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 4: you're under pressure more than that, it's just too much

320
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 4: to overcome.

321
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 3: Evan Neil is one guy that Giant fans are obviously,

322
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,920
Speaker 3: you know, keeping an eye on here. He was a

323
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,680
Speaker 3: top ten pick. He's somebody that they're counting on to

324
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 3: be a big part of the solution on offensive line.

325
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 3: Sam Joe Shane was asked about this the other day.

326
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 3: He says, Nah, you know, maybe we're not quite ready

327
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 3: to talk about maybe a move to guard. He's only

328
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,200
Speaker 3: played twenty career games. We know the arc for offensive

329
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 3: lineman can be a little bit long. He's played through

330
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,840
Speaker 3: some injuries. At what point for you guys, do you

331
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 3: start thinking, all right, maybe tackle isn't working here and

332
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 3: we need to look somewhere else to figure out if

333
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 3: this is a long term landing place for this particular player.

334
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say you give him the rest of

335
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 4: the year and see what it looks like. I don't

336
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 4: because the line, because everything is so bad this season.

337
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 4: I don't know that you get a fair evaluation on

338
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 4: him if you try and kick him inside the guard

339
00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 4: midway through the year and say, well, is that going

340
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 4: to work for the rest of the year. I don't

341
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,239
Speaker 4: know that it would, even if it was a successful

342
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 4: sort of long term strategy for him. I say, you

343
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 4: leave him out of tackle, you leave him doing what

344
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,840
Speaker 4: he's familiar with, and you see if there are any

345
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,640
Speaker 4: green shoots of development over the final games of this season.

346
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,360
Speaker 4: If there's none, then you probably try and move him

347
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,680
Speaker 4: inside the guard. But honestly, that point, you're you're not

348
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 4: necessarily even considering him as a starter nailed on going forward,

349
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 4: like he might move into guard, but it would be

350
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 4: to compete with somebody in training camp next year, and

351
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 4: if he wins that job, then fine. Otherwise he ends

352
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 4: up being, you know, probably a swing tackle or a

353
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 4: reclamation project from the bench somewhere. But I think that's

354
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 4: the level we've reached at this point is we've seen

355
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 4: really nothing from him in terms of development, in terms

356
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 4: of improvement, no signs that this is heading in the

357
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,200
Speaker 4: right direction, and unless those show up in this and

358
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 4: the back end of the season, it's tough to pencil

359
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 4: him in as a starter going forward.

360
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,280
Speaker 3: Last question on the offense before a couple of big

361
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,320
Speaker 3: picture team building things. John Michael Schmid at center. He

362
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,600
Speaker 3: missed some games, dude, injury. I think he says some

363
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 3: issues with power. I've seen guys kind of push him

364
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:46,760
Speaker 3: into the back of a little bit on some of

365
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 3: these run plays. Your thoughts on him as a center,

366
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 3: and you know, center's a pretty tough developmental position for

367
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 3: offensive line. How telling do you think rookie years are

368
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 3: for players at that position, and what if you seen

369
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:00,960
Speaker 3: from him so far?

370
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been pretty rough for him so far. I

371
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,640
Speaker 4: will say he's he's dealt with a really rough slate

372
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,119
Speaker 4: of opposition. Like you look at some of the players

373
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,160
Speaker 4: he's not to deal with. I mean, week one, Dallas

374
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 4: just line Michael Parsons up over him and ruined his life.

375
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 4: But then after that it was Javon Hargrave, it was

376
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,440
Speaker 4: Eric Armstead. He's like he's dealt with some really good

377
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,200
Speaker 4: players lined up opposite him. That being said, he's also

378
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 4: lost to some players that are not, you know, really good,

379
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 4: and that's I think the bigger problem. You watch his tape,

380
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 4: some of it is is definitely mental. You can see

381
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 4: he's a tick late to basically almost every center garden exchange,

382
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,520
Speaker 4: you know, whether it's stunts, all those kinds of things.

383
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,520
Speaker 4: He's just a beat behind where he needs to be

384
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 4: in terms of being prepared to pass those kinds of

385
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,520
Speaker 4: things off and to take on the next guy. And

386
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 4: when he does that, when he's half a beat late,

387
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 4: you know that the pass rusher is able to get

388
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 4: to his arm swaded aside, and then he's just out

389
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 4: of position. He never recovers in those plays. So those

390
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,000
Speaker 4: ty plays I think improved the longer he plays. Once

391
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 4: he sort of gets up to speed, mentally that side

392
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 4: of it. But then there's there's just too many plays

393
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 4: at the moment where he's not able to maintain contact

394
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 4: and those guys just shed his block, his balance gets

395
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,840
Speaker 4: out out from under him, and he never recovers those either.

396
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,120
Speaker 4: That's going to be a bigger kind of question mark

397
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 4: for of whether he can get to that level because

398
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 4: you know, he's a guy that doesn't have amazing athleticism.

399
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,439
Speaker 4: That was the big question mark on him coming out. Now,

400
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,479
Speaker 4: there was plenty of tape in college that showed him

401
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 4: executing the types of blocks that you associate needing athleticism

402
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,920
Speaker 4: to make the kind of classic reach block and outside

403
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,920
Speaker 4: zone and all that kind of stuff. But the other

404
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,640
Speaker 4: place athleticism shows up is you know when a guy

405
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 4: gets you off balance, like what is your recovery Like

406
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,880
Speaker 4: are you able to shuffle your feet and make sure

407
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,920
Speaker 4: that you maintain your balance and that you know one

408
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 4: swipe of your hands isn't going to completely take you

409
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,880
Speaker 4: out of the play At the moment that's where he's struggling.

410
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 4: He doesn't have the recovery ability that he needs to

411
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 4: save those plays. Once a guy gets him gets an

412
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 4: advantage over him on.

413
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,160
Speaker 2: The rep Gun fans love a winner.

414
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 3: It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two

415
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 3: best bank by the in the US by the Banker.

416
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 3: As the official bank of the Giants and sponsor of

417
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 3: the Huddle, Citizens is made ready for fans a big

418
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 3: blue Learn more at citizensbank dot com.

419
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,120
Speaker 2: Sam It's already started here.

420
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: Fans are calling up asking us about the quarterback position

421
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,560
Speaker 3: in terms of the draft for the Giants, and who

422
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 3: knows where the NA pick. We don't know who's going

423
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 3: to be available. Put all those things down down the pike.

424
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,560
Speaker 3: General quarterback evaluation. I mean, me and you both studied

425
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 3: the quarterbacks last year. No one could have predicted that CJ.

426
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 3: Stroud that would do what he's doing now. I mean,

427
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 3: there's nothing on the Ohio state tape that would have

428
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 3: indicated he could have done this much of an advanced

429
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 3: job in an NFL offense based on what we saw

430
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 3: from him in college. Even the stuff on the pressure

431
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 3: has been a lot better. You know, how tough is

432
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 3: it just from even your perspective, with all the analytics

433
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,640
Speaker 3: and numbers you guys have to try to predict how

434
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 3: a quarterback in college is going to do heading into

435
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,159
Speaker 3: the NFL ll given how frankly much different even just

436
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 3: the responsibilities are going to be based on what he

437
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,239
Speaker 3: was asked to do in college to what he's going

438
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,239
Speaker 3: to do in the pros. The situation he lands in,

439
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 3: all those things that are just really hard to quantify.

440
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's I don't want to say it's impossible,

441
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,199
Speaker 4: but there's a reason that everybody is still batting, you know,

442
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 4: thirty percent on these things, and why even like every

443
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,919
Speaker 4: NFL team consistently screws it up like it's it's not

444
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 4: a science, right, it's an art form, and it's one

445
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 4: that we're all guessing at to a degree. Right, we

446
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 4: can quantify as much as humanly possible. I mean a

447
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 4: lot of the things, A lot of the times the

448
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 4: evidence is there. It's a case of how you weigh

449
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 4: it and how much you like one area. I would

450
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 4: push back a little bit on the CJ.

451
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: Draut thing.

452
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 4: I would say, look, there was evidence that he could

453
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 4: do this. It was the Georgia game. But the problem

454
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 4: is it was one game out of almost his entire

455
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 4: career and most of his careers said he couldn't do this,

456
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 4: and then one game against the best opposition he faced,

457
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 4: said that's the guy. If all you had was that

458
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 4: Georgia game, you would say CJ. Stradd is the number

459
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 4: one overall pick and he's going to be the guy

460
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 4: that he is right now, and you would have no

461
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 4: questions about it whatsoever. But as soon as you look

462
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 4: beyond that game, it undermined everything you saw in that

463
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 4: Georgia game. And the question is, well, which is more

464
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 4: important the one game we saw him do it in

465
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 4: against elite you know, the closest he's going to see

466
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 4: to an NFL defense in college or every other game

467
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 4: where it just didn't happen. And that's the thing people

468
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 4: don't know.

469
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: Right.

470
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 4: You can look at the tape, you can sort of

471
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 4: identify traits, you can find little bits and pieces, but

472
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 4: you don't know how much each individual thing is going

473
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 4: to matter. And then, yeah, the other side of the

474
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 4: equation where you get guys that show it almost all

475
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 4: the time. But now you're gonna make their entire lives worse, Right,

476
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 4: Bryce Young? Bryce Young did a great job for a

477
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 4: consistent period of time at Alabama. Now you're gonna make

478
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 4: every single aspect of his job worse. His offensive line

479
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 4: is worse, his receivers are worse, His scheme is worse,

480
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 4: and just the sort of general picture that he's looking

481
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 4: at in terms of open receivers, etc. It's all worse.

482
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 4: Right now, how does he do in that situation? And

483
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 4: right now he's awful. He looks like one of the

484
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 4: worst quarterbacks to come into the league in a long

485
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 4: period of time. And even now we have no idea

486
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 4: how much of that is him and how much of

487
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 4: it is just the accumulation of all the bad around him,

488
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 4: right and all that put together, And even like the

489
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 4: other element is if you swap them, what would it

490
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 4: look like if CJ. Stroud is playing in Carolina and

491
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 4: Bryce Young was playing in Houston? What would that look like?

492
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 4: Would Stroud still look way better? Would they completely reverse

493
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 4: and suddenly Bryce Young is Rookie of the Year and

494
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: c J. Stroud looks like a bust. This is the

495
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 4: problem is it's trying to sort of, you know, figure

496
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 4: out how much of the blame goes to each one

497
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 4: of these individual things, even beyond trying to identify like

498
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 4: which element of their traits and their college makeup is

499
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: the important thing and how much to weigh. So yeah,

500
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 4: it's it's a nightmare for everybody. All all you can

501
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 4: do is put it together as best you can and

502
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 4: take your best guess what's going to work in any

503
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 4: given situation.

504
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 5: You love turf, You're good at it, so you start

505
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 5: a turf fizz business grows, your savings grow, become the

506
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 5: most celebrated name in turf.

507
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: Are you ready for all that life brings?

508
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 3: Then welcome to my next five months. In terms of

509
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 3: the wide receiver position, last year we saw a bunch

510
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: of mini wide receivers come out Sam two more questions

511
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 3: and they buy a lot of success. Whether it's tankd Dell's,

512
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 3: A Flowers, Josh Downs. You know, guys worried about they're small,

513
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 3: but they're you know, they're slight, but they've all done

514
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 3: a good job this year. I know you've done your

515
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 3: shows with with Trevor. There's a bigger group of wide

516
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: receivers coming, all right, Dunzie from Washington, Keyon Coleman guys

517
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 3: a little bit more size that could also run. So

518
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 3: as you guys have continued to evaluate the wide receiver position,

519
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: how do you now weigh what traits are most important

520
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: when you're trying to fill that out? Because the giants

521
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 3: are still looking obviously for that you know one, A,

522
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 3: one B, maybe even number two wide receiver in that room.

523
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think wide receiver is actually a reasonably sort

524
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 4: of simple step by step process in terms of evaluation

525
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 4: for me anyway, Like the first thing I start with

526
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: is can they get open? Can they separate? Can they

527
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 4: run routes? Can they you know, have they got the

528
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 4: sort of speed and agility to just get open on

529
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 4: a consistent basis? I think if you have that, the

530
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 4: guy has a really high floor at the NFL level

531
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 4: like that plays regardless. Now it might there's a ceiling

532
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 4: to that, and that's where you get to the kind

533
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 4: of next step, but that will give you a really

534
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 4: high floor. It's difficult to be terrible if you can

535
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 4: consistently separate and get open, you know where you're supposed

536
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 4: to be. You know, you can find holes and zones.

537
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 4: That kind of mental aspect of it as well. I

538
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 4: think if you're really really good at that, I have

539
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 4: no problem spending a first round pick on a on

540
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 4: a receiver who only has that. Then the next step is, okay,

541
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 4: now what happens in contested catch situations? And can you

542
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 4: win against physicality? And can you go up and elevate

543
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 4: in a tight situation, you know, are you going to

544
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 4: get dominated physically by a bigger guy? And that's where

545
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 4: you question, That's where you have to start asking that

546
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 4: question against guys like, you know, the smaller guys Jordan Addison,

547
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 4: Tank Dell, all these kinds of guys. You want to know,

548
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 4: can they still do that at that size or is

549
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 4: that going to be a potential weakness or a ceiling

550
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 4: on their play at the next level. And that if

551
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 4: you're amazing at that, that's also the kind of value

552
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 4: at right that's where you get to become a Jamar

553
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 4: Chase or you know, CD Lamb or an aj Brown.

554
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 4: Guys that can dominate in that area. They just have

555
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 4: that extra string to their bow that some of these

556
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 4: smaller guys don't have because they don't have that kind

557
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 4: of size or that kind of physical ability. It's just

558
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 4: not available to them as an option. And the kind

559
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: of composite of all that, I think just determines how

560
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 4: much success you can have at the next level.

561
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: I'm with you final question, giants, team building.

562
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to take the quarterback question to throw it

563
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: away because we don't know where they're picking. What's going

564
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 3: to look like I'm drafting all offensive players. I'm spending

565
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 3: all my money on offensive player. Sam, You're at the

566
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 3: point now where I think with the Giants, whether it's

567
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: wide receiver, offensive line, other skill positions, however you want

568
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: to look at it. You cannot be a successful NFL

569
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: team when you're averaging twelve to thirteen points a game,

570
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: seventeen points per game like they did two years ago,

571
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 3: even last year they were around I think twenty exactly.

572
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: There's such a low ceiling, especially when you're playing the

573
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 3: better teams in the league. When you're at that point,

574
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: to me, at this point, you invest in the offense.

575
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: You get your offense better, even if your defense is

576
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: no good and you lose some games because of that.

577
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: I think you live with it. You build that later.

578
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: I think you're at the.

579
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: Point here, this is just my opinion with the Giants

580
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: where you need to get this offense to the point

581
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: where it's capable of carrying you to some wins, which

582
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 3: is something we haven't been able to say about this

583
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 3: group much since I don't know, Eli Manning in twenty

584
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 3: thirteen or something like that.

585
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean I think the other

586
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: thing is you improve the defense, you help out the

587
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: defense anyway, Right, You've already invested some high draft picks

588
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 4: in the defense. There's guys like Dex Larenz there. You

589
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: expect Deontay Banks to get better, Like there are players

590
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 4: on defense that should be better next year. And if

591
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 4: you make their lives easier by getting them off the

592
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 4: field some the unit as a whole will be better. Anyway.

593
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: I think you know, they need to overhaul that offensive

594
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: line still, and I wouldn't limit that to just the draft.

595
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 4: You know, free agency will be a thing, like they

596
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 4: can bring in some just capable veteran presences that you

597
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 4: know are able to start. Hopefully you get some level

598
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 4: of development or improvement from the young players that are there,

599
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 4: whether it's out of a Neil John Michael Schmiz, I

600
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 4: don't know that you can rely on that, but if

601
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 4: that happens, it'll help how easy it is to overhaul

602
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 4: the group. There's going to be some really good offensive

603
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: tackles towards the top of this draft, so you know, again,

604
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: who knows what the quarterback situation will be or where

605
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 4: exactly they're going to be picking, but these are two

606
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 4: of the best offensive tackles we've seen coming to the

607
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 4: league at the top of this draft in years a

608
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 4: different style as a player as well. So you bring

609
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 4: one of those guys in, play them at right tackle,

610
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 4: you're in good spot. And then it's one of the

611
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: best wide receiver groups to come in in a long

612
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 4: time as well. And I think that's gonna be a

613
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 4: like a consistent theme for years that you're going to

614
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: get every a lot of good wide receivers every single year.

615
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: So offensive line of wide receivers is where this team

616
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: needs to go.

617
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 3: Sam, tell us about everything you're doing at PFF the

618
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: podcast everything fans to check out.

619
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, just the the PFF NFL podcast five days a

620
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 4: week at this point during the season. Wherever you get

621
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 4: your podcaster on our YouTube channel.

622
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: Check it out.

623
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: Sam monson Pro Football Focus Johnson Podcast presented by Citizens

624
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 3: Official Bank of the Giants. Thanks for being with us,

625
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time.

626
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: Everybody,