Speaker 1: Welcome to Allow with Giano Caldwell. Thank you for joining
Speaker 1: me this week. I want to share with you something
Speaker 1: that's extraordinarily personal to me. This conversation, I believe is
Speaker 1: the most impactful discussion that I could ever have. On
Speaker 1: this podcast. We will be discussing me and my guest,
Speaker 1: the ugliest word in the English language. I would argue
Speaker 1: this is the ugliest word in any language. That is
Speaker 1: the N word. You may have used this word yourself,
Speaker 1: You may have friends that have used it. You may
Speaker 1: be a Caucasian American who have used it in rap lyrics.
Speaker 1: You just repeated the lyrics, No big deal, right. You
Speaker 1: may be an African American who uses this figuratively in
Speaker 1: a form of love. You think there's nothing wrong with it,
Speaker 1: But let's be clear, there's something very wrong with this word,
Speaker 1: even if you're using it and rap lyrics, even if
Speaker 1: you're using it as a sense of love, even if
Speaker 1: you're African American and you're a descendedtive slave, there's no
Speaker 1: right time, no matter who you are, to use this word.
Speaker 1: I want you to listen to this audio, which I
Speaker 1: think is very important. It's a conversation between rapper Jay
Speaker 1: Z and Oprah Winfrey, and he talks about his rebranding
Speaker 1: of the N words. Not being a big fan of
Speaker 1: rap music because of misogynist lyrics and because of the
Speaker 1: use of the N word, you obviously feel differently and
Speaker 1: a little bit a little bit a little bit and
Speaker 1: tell everybody why. What we discussed is is more of
Speaker 1: uh words. People give words power, and for our generation,
Speaker 1: what we did was we took the word and we
Speaker 1: took the power out of that word. You know, we
Speaker 1: turned a word that was very ugly and hurtful into
Speaker 1: a term of endemment. So I mean, even when someone
Speaker 1: says it's still intention behind what you say, but um
Speaker 1: pretty much took the power out of the word. Because
Speaker 1: if we just start removing words from dictionary, just make
Speaker 1: up another word the next day, so we don't dress
Speaker 1: the problem. The problem is racism, right, That's really the problem.
Speaker 1: You know, jay Z, I've in Georgia music absolutely, but
Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly disagree with you. I disagree with many figures
Speaker 1: within the black community, within cultural communities who believe the
Speaker 1: usage of this word is okay if we want to
Speaker 1: be honest about it. And for people who may not
Speaker 1: even know the history of the word. It was the
Speaker 1: summer of sixteen nineteen when a ship arrived in the
Speaker 1: port of Virginia carrying around twenty Africans who were chained
Speaker 1: up to be sold as slaves. It was the first
Speaker 1: documented arrival of slaves in the US, and Africans were
Speaker 1: referred to using the Spanus and Portuguese words for black,
Speaker 1: which was the N word. You know, And I have
Speaker 1: to be honest. And I'm personally ashamed that I'm even
Speaker 1: admitting to this, but I have to be honest as
Speaker 1: we have this dialogue. I've used the N word. I
Speaker 1: grew up in a household where the use of the
Speaker 1: N word was permitted. I grew up extremely pouring the
Speaker 1: South Side of Chicago. I've had experiences with friends where
Speaker 1: we thought, hey, let's collaborate, let's talk, let's share and love,
Speaker 1: and we'll use the the N word to show that
Speaker 1: we like each other, that we respect each other. We
Speaker 1: tried to do this rebranding thing is jay Z just mentioned.
Speaker 1: It was flawed. It's a lie. It's something that we
Speaker 1: should never do. And I'll be honest with you. I
Speaker 1: had a situation when I was a young teenager a
Speaker 1: store in Chicago. It was a Von Dudge store where
Speaker 1: I went in and had a conversation with the individual
Speaker 1: who worked there. I talked about this in my book
Speaker 1: Taking for Granted How Conservatism Can went back to the Americans,
Speaker 1: a liberalism failed. This individual who managed the store say
Speaker 1: get out of here in word, and he chased me
Speaker 1: out of the store. And it wasn't that I was
Speaker 1: doing something wrong. I was just looking at the merchandise.
Speaker 1: But that was the first time that I really felt
Speaker 1: the anger, the hate from that word. But yet and
Speaker 1: still I used the word why because society said it
Speaker 1: was okay. Hip hop culture said it was okay. But
Speaker 1: I want to say that it is not okay. You
Speaker 1: can't say black lives matter and still use that word
Speaker 1: why because the word is still filled with hate no
Speaker 1: matter how much you branded. And I'm gonna tell you,
Speaker 1: you're empowering racism and races by using this word. And
Speaker 1: I'm talking to every rapper, every cultural influencer, politician, business person,
Speaker 1: white American, Asian American, Latino American, Indian American, and yes,
Speaker 1: every black person. If you use the N words stop now. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you Cardi B. I'm talking to you
Speaker 1: jay Z I'm talking to you, Killing Mike, I'm talking
Speaker 1: to you. Kanye West, who i'm a big fan of.
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you, Big Pout, I'm talking to you.
Speaker 1: Charlemagne to God, I'm talking to you, Dave Chappelle. I'm
Speaker 1: talking to you, Nicki Minaj. I'm talking to you, Drake Beyonce,
Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick, Joe Biden, even who's used the word in Congress.
Speaker 1: This is never appropriate, absolutely not. You can never say
Speaker 1: black lives matter when you're disenfranchising black lives by using
Speaker 1: the N word. And that's important for everyone to walk
Speaker 1: away with. There's never an appropriate time to use it,
Speaker 1: so stop. Now take a listen to this very important
Speaker 1: conversation that I have with the billionaire founder of Papa John's.
Speaker 1: It's one that you will certainly want to share with
Speaker 1: your families and listen to throughout the week. This is
Speaker 1: Outllied with Gianno Calledwell, John Schneider, Welcome to Outline with
Speaker 1: Gianno called Well, How are you doing today? Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me, No, It is honestly a pleasure to be
Speaker 1: able to have an open, honest dialogue on all things
Speaker 1: considered in this In this episode, I want to begin
Speaker 1: by asking you about your resignation from Papa John's, which,
Speaker 1: of course you found it and became a billion near
Speaker 1: by way of back in when you were the chairman
Speaker 1: of the company, you were on a conference call receiving
Speaker 1: public RELATIONSHI training from an outside marketing firm called Laundry Service.
Speaker 1: While doing a role play in exercise to prevent future
Speaker 1: PR issues, you reportedly said Colonel Sanders called blacks and
Speaker 1: in word it was the full word. I believe before
Speaker 1: I complained that Sanders never faced public backlash, Can you
Speaker 1: go back to that day, what exactly happened and what
Speaker 1: were you thinking at the time. Well, the comment was
Speaker 1: made and taken out of the media context and and
Speaker 1: and contrast the you you kind of just did it yourself.
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders called black people the N word. I never
Speaker 1: used the word. Twofold one is I never used the word.
Speaker 1: And it's not a vocabulary, as we'll talk about a
Speaker 1: little bit later. I don't want to end of vocabulary
Speaker 1: with regards to me, with regards to the media. The
Speaker 1: second thing is jabbow is the contrast, Um, there's there's
Speaker 1: certain nose, you know, there's there's no there's hell no,
Speaker 1: and there's no way you know, and there's no and
Speaker 1: in this case, it was, hey, people are using this word.
Speaker 1: Don't use the word. I never used the word. Okay,
Speaker 1: so are you saying that inn word the N I
Speaker 1: G G A or n I G G E R.
Speaker 1: You never used the actual word you said in word
Speaker 1: so in letter W O R D that's what you
Speaker 1: said on the conference call. Is that what you're saying? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I said, Colonel Sander's uses the word quite frequently. I
Speaker 1: didn't understand why they would pay me in the same
Speaker 1: John or when I use the word debacle, that's the
Speaker 1: word I really was referring to. If you read again,
Speaker 1: you did the same thing the rest of me. He's
Speaker 1: doing you you're taking it out of context. I said,
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders calls black people the N word. I never
Speaker 1: use that word. What I don't understand is he uses
Speaker 1: the word. I use the word debacle, and I get
Speaker 1: same phone in the John Drew again, Giotto. It was
Speaker 1: a contrast and it was taken out of context, just
Speaker 1: like you did. You said it twice now one call. Well, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I want to I want to understand because I haven't
Speaker 1: heard any tape. And apparently there's not been a tape
Speaker 1: published to my knowledge of the actual conversation. Therefore, I'm
Speaker 1: trying to understand because I'm not going to use the word,
Speaker 1: just like you're not going to use the word. If
Speaker 1: this was, Hey, you know, colonel Senators called black people
Speaker 1: in words, Okay, that's one way of describing it, versus Yeah,
Speaker 1: Colonel Senators called black people in I, G G A.
Speaker 1: That would be a distinction. So that's what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to understand here. If you actually use the word or
Speaker 1: you said a word, that's that's what I'm trying to
Speaker 1: ascertain in this moment. Well, there's a transcript out there
Speaker 1: that is the latter to your point, and the is
Speaker 1: you know, the word in some place is a still problem,
Speaker 1: which is uh runch total uh contradictory to everything that
Speaker 1: I believe for and is in my vocabulary. So again,
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders used the word, used it frequency frequently, and
Speaker 1: I never used the word and still don't use the word. Okay.
Speaker 1: So in that sen As you're saying you don't use
Speaker 1: the word in your daily life, you use the word
Speaker 1: um as an example providing context to what Colonel Sanders
Speaker 1: did and never received backlash four. But I'm still confused
Speaker 1: as if you as to if you use the word
Speaker 1: to just provide the context. So if you're saying, hey,
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders used the let's use it for example, if
Speaker 1: it was the B word, Colonel Sanders used the B
Speaker 1: word or Colonel Sanders said bitch's there's a difference between
Speaker 1: both of them, and they'll probably mute that out. But
Speaker 1: there there's a big difference between both of those. And
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to underst saying that. I wish I
Speaker 1: saw the transcript beforehand, so I know, but there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of conversation. But we'll well, we'll we'll move on.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question. You said in an
Speaker 1: interview and that it took you twenty months to get
Speaker 1: that word out of your vocabulary. What did you mean
Speaker 1: by that? No, No, when I said in the interview
Speaker 1: again you take it to me the third time you've
Speaker 1: taken it out of contact to be looking at what
Speaker 1: I said through the and the rest of that comment
Speaker 1: was is it's all false. What I was saying is
Speaker 1: the media needs to take the vocabulary out of anything
Speaker 1: that I would say with regards to me. The words
Speaker 1: were misconstrued. But again, UM, that doesn't bother me when
Speaker 1: you guys, because you all need clicks and you need um,
Speaker 1: you know, you need things to provocative. I have no
Speaker 1: problem with the media printing if I do misconstrue something,
Speaker 1: even though it's real clear what I met. The problem
Speaker 1: I have with you, guys is when I do say
Speaker 1: something that is uh, that is truthful. Uh. Example, again,
Speaker 1: you've done it three times. You take things out of
Speaker 1: context where hey, Colonel Sanders called white people the N word.
Speaker 1: I never used the word. I'm confused why we're confusing
Speaker 1: debacle with the N word and having all this negative publicity. Okay,
Speaker 1: so in other words, you never use the N word.
Speaker 1: You use the word debacle instead. No, I said, Colonel
Speaker 1: Sanders uses the N word. I said, I never used
Speaker 1: that word, and I don't use that word, and I
Speaker 1: didn't before this instance, and I don't that I haven't
Speaker 1: since what I was referring to is for some reason,
Speaker 1: we got stirred up in a situation, uh that was
Speaker 1: divisive with the words to raise on the word debacle,
Speaker 1: the word. I use the word debacle in the context
Speaker 1: of my guys. Goodell, Roger Goodell, the commissioner in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Let's let's get our act together here. We have to
Speaker 1: solve this to the owners and players satisfaction. That's your job,
Speaker 1: and it's now it's been a color of the boxing.
Speaker 1: I want to pick up from there in a moment,
Speaker 1: but first let's go to break. I'm ask you this
Speaker 1: very direct question. Have you ever, in any context used
Speaker 1: the word in I G G A or in I
Speaker 1: G G E R in any context ever? Wese wordever,
Speaker 1: never or absolute? I I can't even remember even making
Speaker 1: an off colored joke with that word. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'd like to say I equivably Uh no, I think
Speaker 1: it's unequiventally no, because the word very offending. Uh. I
Speaker 1: was raised that way I was raised and household where
Speaker 1: everybody was treated with love and kindness and mutual respect
Speaker 1: and regardless of their gender, or their nationality, or their
Speaker 1: color their skin, And so that word was just off limits.
Speaker 1: And that was the way I was raised. And I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: becoll me kind of caught me on the spot here
Speaker 1: my parents. I never heard my parents or grandparents use
Speaker 1: that word, So I just wasn't part of our vocabulary. Okay,
Speaker 1: So to you, I want to just make sure that
Speaker 1: I'm understanding you. You don't believe that you've ever used
Speaker 1: the word before. You don't recall ever using the word before,
Speaker 1: but it's possible that you might have. Oh, I mean
Speaker 1: in fifty nine years. I mean, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: things possible. One thing is for sure, the use of
Speaker 1: the word I do found find offensive for absolutely, and
Speaker 1: it definitely is not part of my vocabulary, never has been,
Speaker 1: and ever will be. Okay, So what have you learned
Speaker 1: since this, because I'm imagining when the reporting and I
Speaker 1: know you said that it's inaccurate, when the reporting came
Speaker 1: out suggesting that you did use the word, um, that's
Speaker 1: what was suggested be a many media outlets. What what
Speaker 1: happened then? Did you get friends because I know you're
Speaker 1: you're a celebrity. Uh, you're a billionaire. You have a
Speaker 1: lot of I'm sure wealthy black friends that may have
Speaker 1: contacted you. Did anyone reach out Oprah Winfrey or anyone
Speaker 1: say hey, you know, I just want to talk to
Speaker 1: you about this and understand what happened. Did you get
Speaker 1: any calls like that? I got total support from the
Speaker 1: black community, whether it's uh, Reverend Elliott, Reverend Cosby Reverend Tolbert,
Speaker 1: one of our chief executive officers, UM was ahead of operations.
Speaker 1: Simon Smith been with us fourteen years, a personal friend.
Speaker 1: He was totally supportive. Of course, my friends that I
Speaker 1: grew up with at Our of Color, they were supported,
Speaker 1: my dearest form, my DearS friends next Smith of years.
Speaker 1: No nobody turned on me. Nobody believed that UM. And
Speaker 1: that's probably the blessing from God. And all this is
Speaker 1: the public never bought it, UM, you know, they just
Speaker 1: didn't buy something. Then they add up here. You know,
Speaker 1: people are smart, I mean they really you know, they
Speaker 1: see two things and I think they sold this for
Speaker 1: what it was, and it was a set up. Do
Speaker 1: you have any friends or and I know you said
Speaker 1: your grandparents and your your parents, you've never heard them
Speaker 1: use it. But do you have any friends, whether they
Speaker 1: be black, white, or in different that have used the
Speaker 1: word around you? Well, if they did, then they weren't
Speaker 1: friends for very long. And I got out of the
Speaker 1: room quickly, quickly. Now I appreciate that. I think what
Speaker 1: what has happened in certain situations, and I I'm adamantly
Speaker 1: against the use of the N word. And I'll tell
Speaker 1: you I grew up extremely poor on the South Side
Speaker 1: of Chicago, where every member of my family used the
Speaker 1: word for the most part, friends family, that was it
Speaker 1: was one thing that we did and one thing that
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed to say that I did frequently. But as
Speaker 1: I've educated myself since then, UM, when I'm around people
Speaker 1: who use it, no matter what color they are, black, white, Hispanic,
Speaker 1: it makes no difference. I asked them to not use
Speaker 1: the word, especially around me. So since you've had these experiences, Um,
Speaker 1: have you been in those environments? Maybe once or twice,
Speaker 1: But again, UM, if that word comes out, there's I
Speaker 1: do one of the things, Hey, don't don't ever use
Speaker 1: that word around me. That was before this happened. Um.
Speaker 1: And or two is I just believe immediately, but the
Speaker 1: word is not gonna be tolerated with me, my friends,
Speaker 1: or people I associated with. And UM, that's the truth.
Speaker 1: Let's move into this investigation that was commissioned by your
Speaker 1: lawyers that argue that your your use of the slur
Speaker 1: was not racist because you also expressed this thing for
Speaker 1: racism on the call as, UM, do do you understand
Speaker 1: why people kind of took it in the direction that
Speaker 1: they did in terms of believing that you use the
Speaker 1: N word. Well, of course, when you have um, Forbes,
Speaker 1: we'll take what we'll pick on Forbes magazine for a second.
Speaker 1: Forbes never gave me the courtesy that you just gave me.
Speaker 1: At least you heard you heard me out. And whether
Speaker 1: you agree with me or not, I you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, and we're well agreed to disagree. Forbes just
Speaker 1: ran with it without any doing any fact facts checking,
Speaker 1: took it out of context, didn't emphasize the contrast um
Speaker 1: once they put that headline out and it was a
Speaker 1: media frenzy and nobody nobody checked the facts. So and
Speaker 1: you have a board of directors that basically wanted the company,
Speaker 1: wanted to steal my company. So this was a perfect
Speaker 1: um excuse to get rid of John. So you have
Speaker 1: a board of director as in a company that didn't
Speaker 1: They never came out and said that I was a racist,
Speaker 1: because you know it's not true. They never came out
Speaker 1: and said anything of the sword. Um that did not say, hey,
Speaker 1: that's not what he said. You know, by by all
Speaker 1: means that's he's not that. We wouldn't tolerate that. We've
Speaker 1: been on the John's board for some of them eighteen years.
Speaker 1: We are very strong as a company in our culture
Speaker 1: with diversity and upholding and respecting everybody's rights and their dignity,
Speaker 1: and try to treat him with kindness and love. You
Speaker 1: take that and you put on top of the Forks.
Speaker 1: Forks puts a salacious headline by this guy. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: by this guy. Didn't exactly what I was said, and
Speaker 1: taking things out of contrast, it made it sound like
Speaker 1: something it wasn't because what I said was actually the
Speaker 1: point I was making is, you know, was the anti racist.
Speaker 1: Don't do this for God. Don't use the word because
Speaker 1: I never used the word as a leader. So I
Speaker 1: understand exactly how the public could understand. Uh, And you
Speaker 1: feel the way they felt because they were misled. The
Speaker 1: medium misled them, laundry service misled them, and Papa John's
Speaker 1: board of directors misled them. And I'm looking at the
Speaker 1: transcript here and it reads quote what bothers me is
Speaker 1: Colonel Sanders called blacks, And it says and in this
Speaker 1: da da da da da s I'm like, I never
Speaker 1: used that word, and they get away with it, and
Speaker 1: we use the word debacle and we get framed for
Speaker 1: the same genre, so that that is to be at least, um,
Speaker 1: what's in the transcript there which it doesn't spell it
Speaker 1: out to I can only take your word for it
Speaker 1: in terms of what you said you were on the conversation.
Speaker 1: There's no audio of it to my knowledge that's out
Speaker 1: there at this moment. So um, we'll take your word
Speaker 1: for it. But let me ask you this question. Uh,
Speaker 1: is there any any scenario at all where it's appropriate
Speaker 1: in your mind to use the N word. No. I
Speaker 1: didn't believe it was appropriate years ago, thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: fourty years ago. And I think it's even um more
Speaker 1: emphasized today that you know, you just can't use the word.
Speaker 1: I've always thought it's it's it's just not a healthy
Speaker 1: word for anybody. I think it's negative. I think it's hurtful,
Speaker 1: and um I think I think you know that it
Speaker 1: should be UMU, it should be out of everybody's vocabulary.
Speaker 1: As we talked about. I wish more folks stood up
Speaker 1: like you're standing up and just said, hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: every community, whatever your color skin is, we'll don't use
Speaker 1: the word now. Since you have this major platform, your
Speaker 1: major voice, everybody knows Papa John's everyone knows the commercials.
Speaker 1: We've all seen the red shirts. UM, we've enjoyed the
Speaker 1: pizza that you created and you're the founder of. Now
Speaker 1: that you have this platform where people at least believe
Speaker 1: that you you've used the word, you've apologized for at
Speaker 1: least um the perception of it, what is it you
Speaker 1: intend to do to create greater clarity that your white
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters, or your your your your friends and
Speaker 1: your family and whoever else, people you don't know who
Speaker 1: may use the word gratuitously obviously just using it. Is
Speaker 1: there anything that you're looking to create a platform to say, hey, no,
Speaker 1: this is wrong, so people can be educated and not
Speaker 1: use it in their daily, daily lives. Because what I
Speaker 1: see on a consistent basis, especially when it comes to
Speaker 1: rap music, rap music has conditioned younger white folks to
Speaker 1: use the word gratuitously and just use it all over
Speaker 1: the place. Is there anything that you're looking to do
Speaker 1: or you want to do to provide some education around
Speaker 1: the subject matter? A great question, JOHNO, and I think
Speaker 1: a couple of things really positive have come out of this.
Speaker 1: One is UM. When you have adversity, UM, and especially
Speaker 1: when you have adversity flipped on you by people that
Speaker 1: know that it's a false narrative and no, it's not
Speaker 1: true that you really care about. It strips you down
Speaker 1: to the essentials of your character, your dignity, and you know,
Speaker 1: your daily life. And so this while all's this done,
Speaker 1: is scripting me back to um where I started in
Speaker 1: a brooin closet when you know, when I was broke,
Speaker 1: it's always it's just take me back to the basics,
Speaker 1: and that was the fundamentals that my mom and my dad,
Speaker 1: my grandfather taught me. The thing that I want to
Speaker 1: get out of this is I don't want this to
Speaker 1: happen to anybody ever again. Nobody should have to endure
Speaker 1: this kind of false narrative. You know, if they if
Speaker 1: they say they will will use the hypothetical, say they
Speaker 1: have a cocaine issue, and they ad meant they have
Speaker 1: a cocaine issue. You know they can they can go
Speaker 1: get help. And this situation with the canceled culture and
Speaker 1: the media persecuting, persecuting folks like me that are wealthy,
Speaker 1: successful and somewhat conservative, We're gonna get targeted. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get targeted, and that's that's not right. This So if
Speaker 1: if I could canceled, cancel culture, if we could use
Speaker 1: this as a platform, so what happened to me doesn't
Speaker 1: happen to anybody else in their lifetime. That would be
Speaker 1: really um turning limits uh and to eliminate And you
Speaker 1: say use this as a platform, which is great, because
Speaker 1: I really wanted to have this discussion before this even
Speaker 1: came up with you, um, for reasons that I think
Speaker 1: it should be eliminated from everyone's vocabulary. I wanted to ask, though,
Speaker 1: do you have anything you're formalizing, uh, anything that you're
Speaker 1: really looking to push You're looking to educate people on
Speaker 1: just beyond social media and maybe doing interviews. Are you
Speaker 1: looking to formulate anything in that regard? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you've really got to look at what's the best for humanity.
Speaker 1: That's the beautiful thing about running Papa John is the
Speaker 1: happiest days of my career. There where when people got raises,
Speaker 1: that got promotions, they were doing real well. I love
Speaker 1: to see other people do well in life, and I think, um,
Speaker 1: I think to make other people's lives better is a
Speaker 1: is really a personal mission in my So my four
Speaker 1: goals are I gotta really look if my soul what's
Speaker 1: important to me. It's got to be good for humanity.
Speaker 1: It's got to make other people's lives better, and it's
Speaker 1: got to be scalable. I like to do things on
Speaker 1: a big time basis, and um, it's got to be
Speaker 1: something that is UM sustainable financially. You don't want to
Speaker 1: run out of money in six months or twelve months
Speaker 1: or eighteen months if you're trying to do initiatives. So
Speaker 1: um my, those four goals are something that are very
Speaker 1: important to being the most important is doing something that
Speaker 1: really helps UM humanity. I feel like a Papa John's.
Speaker 1: You know, we were bringing friends and family together. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a celebratory kind of situation where people celebrated
Speaker 1: with the pizza and they got together, and that really
Speaker 1: touched my heart. UM. The last probably the last fourteen
Speaker 1: months along that same lines of thinking is we've been
Speaker 1: so involved with UM COVID and small businesses and just
Speaker 1: doing what little we could do to help them, you know,
Speaker 1: stay on life support. So our goal that will come
Speaker 1: out of COVID, it's gonna shift from more of okay,
Speaker 1: what can we do for small businesses? We'll still keep
Speaker 1: programs alive, will still do educational things, will still give insight,
Speaker 1: will still give advice, UM, and hope, hope to help
Speaker 1: the small business uh, men and women because they're the
Speaker 1: heartbeat of the entire country. And then we'll we'll turn
Speaker 1: to how do we cancel council culture. These people that
Speaker 1: run canceled culture, Giohno, to your point, I mean they're
Speaker 1: even I mean they're cruel. I mean they they do
Speaker 1: hate hateful things to other human beings. Um. That really
Speaker 1: is an injustice. If somebody's going around and just stabbing
Speaker 1: people with the night, they would be in jail because
Speaker 1: they're hurting other people with their actions. And cancel culture
Speaker 1: hurts people. Again, it's it's ecopathic, it's sociopathic. It's sick.
Speaker 1: And they set on their computers and they make things
Speaker 1: up and they twist and they turn and they take
Speaker 1: things out of context and and for you know what,
Speaker 1: did the story somebody that's a good person, And that's
Speaker 1: just wrong. And if we can have a little influence
Speaker 1: to make media uh. In this case, we'll go back
Speaker 1: and pick on Forbes again. If Forbes has just done
Speaker 1: their homework, if they if Papa Johns would have just
Speaker 1: done a proper investigation, they had come up with what
Speaker 1: Louis Free came up with, and then we could have
Speaker 1: had the dialogue that you and I aren heaven, which
Speaker 1: is okay, he was using it in the context of
Speaker 1: he never uses the word, nobody's used the word. Let's
Speaker 1: stop using the word as a society. And I know
Speaker 1: you stand for that. Absolutely, I do stand for that.
Speaker 1: And since you mentioned council called, I want to ask
Speaker 1: you do you believe a person should be canceled for
Speaker 1: using the N word? Um depends on the context. I mean,
Speaker 1: when somebody says, okay, he or she used a racial slur,
Speaker 1: you know there he is, what's the racial slur? Give
Speaker 1: me the exact words and BS is what's the intent?
Speaker 1: What's the intent? And to me, if it's a racial slur,
Speaker 1: it's got a negative intent. When you and I are
Speaker 1: having the conversation we're having, we have a positive intent.
Speaker 1: We want people to stop using the word. Just like
Speaker 1: I said, Hey, I never used the word. What's going
Speaker 1: on here? So? UM? You know, the cancel culture UM
Speaker 1: is problematic because it jumps on a partial truth or
Speaker 1: a half truth or mistruth and it destroys people. Now
Speaker 1: there's some cases where UM people actually do wrong. And
Speaker 1: in that case, I think they need to take the
Speaker 1: hint and let the chips lie where they lie. The
Speaker 1: truth is the truth. As I told your own a conversation,
Speaker 1: they quoted what I said when I missed, misconstrued the
Speaker 1: media using the vocabulary with regards to me with the
Speaker 1: word my versus my. Um, that's okay because I said it.
Speaker 1: So let me either correct it or explain or tot
Speaker 1: look in the next sentence because it was just false.
Speaker 1: But you know I said it, so I have to
Speaker 1: explain it or apologize for it, or correct the record.
Speaker 1: It's the problem with the media is when uh, they
Speaker 1: twist and they turn and it's not truthful, like they
Speaker 1: did with with the president President Trump in Georgia. You know,
Speaker 1: they went all out and said, you know he said
Speaker 1: what he said. You know, he got murdered for it.
Speaker 1: It comes to be they had a tape and he
Speaker 1: didn't say that. And by the way, this is a
Speaker 1: week or so before elections. Well that's just not right
Speaker 1: for the media to completely fabricate something and hurt the
Speaker 1: president and hurt the outcome of election in Georgia. Now,
Speaker 1: and I understand that point of view, uh, completely and
Speaker 1: just to to to recount what you just said right now,
Speaker 1: and you and I'm not actually used the word in
Speaker 1: this conversation. I've spelled out the word two different versions
Speaker 1: of it. The one some black folks think is except
Speaker 1: for rap music, which I disagree, um and others, that
Speaker 1: has been used, uh in the form of real strong hate.
Speaker 1: It comes by way of slavery. Slavery Um, the first
Speaker 1: slaves came over into the country. This is what the
Speaker 1: Portuguese used to describe them as being black. That those
Speaker 1: are much different distinctions there, But in terms of a
Speaker 1: person actually being canceled due to using that word a
Speaker 1: person and I understand you're saying people with nefarious intent,
Speaker 1: I get it. I understand that. So someone who's legitimately
Speaker 1: being racist. I had to experience years ago when I
Speaker 1: was a teenager. I was in a store called Von
Speaker 1: Dutch and I was looking at some of the merchandizing
Speaker 1: and the supervisor came and he said get out of here.
Speaker 1: In word, he didn't want me in his store, and
Speaker 1: he really ran me out of the store. That obviously
Speaker 1: is a very sinister use of the word. But I
Speaker 1: think any use of the word is completely sinister. No
Speaker 1: matter who's using it. So in in your estimation year, Um,
Speaker 1: if a person uses it, white, black, whatever, and cancel
Speaker 1: culture comes for them. They're on tape using the word
Speaker 1: or whatever the case is, do you believe that person
Speaker 1: should be canceled? Well, again back to the being consistent
Speaker 1: and not being hypocritical and being truthful. As you know,
Speaker 1: Como use the word. Joe Biden used the word three
Speaker 1: or four stams in Congress referring to a black so
Speaker 1: and they were canceled. Um, should they been canceled? I
Speaker 1: think that's for the public to judge. Should they said
Speaker 1: what they said? Absolutely not. But as you can see,
Speaker 1: there's a prejudice, there's a bias, the hypocrisy that I'm
Speaker 1: in a training session that says, don't use the word
Speaker 1: because I never used the work. That was the point,
Speaker 1: that was, that was the intent. Joe Biden bloods it,
Speaker 1: blakes it out, and all of a sudden everybody forgets it,
Speaker 1: and Como bladed to it out on national radio and TV.
Speaker 1: I think it was a radio interview if I get
Speaker 1: on TV and with no repercussions. So you see, to
Speaker 1: start contrast between the way one person is treated and
Speaker 1: the way the other people get treated. Now, I want
Speaker 1: to go to Papa John's. Here. Shaquille O'Neil is essentially
Speaker 1: the face of Papa John's. Now, UM, do you agree
Speaker 1: with having this athlete promote your company? Doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: He's obviously this incredible black athlete that's been around forever.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he was a part of the
Speaker 1: company while you were there, or if he came afterwards.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about this? I think the timing
Speaker 1: was Shaquille is excellent because of the environment we're in. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't get the demographics and uh, the feedback on
Speaker 1: how the public feels about this. Um, So I'm really
Speaker 1: not qualified to say I think. Um. I think he's
Speaker 1: well known. I think he's established. I think he does
Speaker 1: a lot of brands, and that may be a little
Speaker 1: bit confusing. Um, but I think the proofs in the
Speaker 1: pudding with regards the Papa John's. Let's look at what
Speaker 1: happens to sales when colder goes off, you know, when
Speaker 1: COVID shuts down or dissipates. Let's see what happens, and
Speaker 1: then I think that would be a fair barometer whether
Speaker 1: he's the right or wrong. Spokesperson from Papa John's, why
Speaker 1: she wish Shakil if she kill sits on this board.
Speaker 1: And the Border directors at Papa John's, they know exactly
Speaker 1: what they what they did. They have the transcripts, transcript
Speaker 1: they now have the tapes. It's a plane of his day.
Speaker 1: It's simple that the launder service, UH set me up?
Speaker 1: And Shaquille is going along with the farce. UM. I
Speaker 1: know he's a big guy. I think he's seven one,
Speaker 1: three hundred pounds. But when you watch somebody steal a
Speaker 1: man's company and they do it, they use race to
Speaker 1: do it, and you stand by that. Um, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure that's a real man. Do you believe he's being
Speaker 1: used as a prompt? The word I use in the
Speaker 1: interviews I do is I think that Papa John's Border
Speaker 1: Directors is using Shakil as an instrument to cover up
Speaker 1: the dirty deeds they did. The most unfathoable thing John
Speaker 1: know about this whole thing is that Papa John's Border
Speaker 1: directors and executive use the black man, used the black woman,
Speaker 1: use the race, use race to steal the company. That's
Speaker 1: unfathoble out away with it. Is it right to say
Speaker 1: that they're using a form of racism and propping up
Speaker 1: someone uh to steal your company. That would be my
Speaker 1: point of view. That's in fact really interesting. Let's continue
Speaker 1: from there in a moment after a quick break. Now,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this question, because you've accused Laundry
Speaker 1: Service the marketing agency on the call of conspiring against you.
Speaker 1: In fact, you filed the federal lawsuit against the firm
Speaker 1: a legend they begin discussing how to ruin your public
Speaker 1: image immediately after the call. Can you tell us more
Speaker 1: about what you're accused using laundry services of? And do
Speaker 1: you blame Papa John's at all for what happened? And
Speaker 1: I think you just really did well, Yeah, we'll get
Speaker 1: to Papa John's. We see there's there's two tapes. There's
Speaker 1: the tape that the magistrate in Delaware saw the courts
Speaker 1: hal Um in Delaware under deb the wall. He's the
Speaker 1: one who presided over this. He saw one tape that
Speaker 1: has the training session. By the way, we had a
Speaker 1: training session for forty five minutes, you know, and they
Speaker 1: didn't make one suggestion or one comment on anything I said.
Speaker 1: Other words, it's training session with no feedback. So it's
Speaker 1: really not a training session. It's a bait session. It's
Speaker 1: you know, how can we bait him in the same
Speaker 1: something and if he does say so something sort of wrong,
Speaker 1: we'll do what they did is we'll just give half
Speaker 1: truth or part of the the a lot of the
Speaker 1: folders and make it sound like you said something he
Speaker 1: didn't say. The thing that the problem for Laudery Service
Speaker 1: now is there's five or six minutes after the call,
Speaker 1: the training call, and by away, all celebrities, all everybody
Speaker 1: that goes on news, as you all know, has trained.
Speaker 1: You know, the public doesn't realize that. Um. Maybe you
Speaker 1: just think you just show up and you do an interview.
Speaker 1: You have to you have to know what you're going
Speaker 1: to talk about. You have to, you know, especially when
Speaker 1: you're dealing with something as sensitive right now in our
Speaker 1: environment and our society. With grace and so here we
Speaker 1: have a so called training session was actually supposed to
Speaker 1: be a brand session. They switched the last minute, trying
Speaker 1: to trip me up in order to get me to
Speaker 1: say something they that I would say so they could
Speaker 1: tape it and hurt me with it with no coaching. Um.
Speaker 1: The last six minutes of the tape which is the
Speaker 1: second tape which the magistrate, uh for Chard is not
Speaker 1: seeing that tape. It's clear we hope John gets sent
Speaker 1: out to f and pasture. We'll make sure he didn't
Speaker 1: have a job or work by Sunday. Um, let's set
Speaker 1: him up with a we have a gentleman ideal rebel
Speaker 1: I think that's the name that uh we got him
Speaker 1: on the sidelines, will take this viral will will will
Speaker 1: hurt this guy. So the ill intent um and what
Speaker 1: they expressed on the tape frankly shocking and it's chilling.
Speaker 1: Here's how bizarre this is. We hired an agency. We
Speaker 1: paid them eight million dollars this year. That year they're
Speaker 1: paid to enhance the reputation, to make me actually look
Speaker 1: in the true light I am. When behind the scenes
Speaker 1: they're taping the conversation, they're setting it up, they're surprised.
Speaker 1: They're trying to provoke me, and all along they had
Speaker 1: ill intent. They did a complete one what they were
Speaker 1: hired to do to help me and actually did everything
Speaker 1: they could to hurt me. Now, with regards of Papa John's,
Speaker 1: the question before the house is was Papa John's actively
Speaker 1: complicit in the set up or were they passively complicit?
Speaker 1: I don't have the answer to that right now. The
Speaker 1: way their behavior is, um, I think they were part
Speaker 1: of this, At least a couple of the directors were
Speaker 1: part of this. And if that's the case, in other words,
Speaker 1: if the board of directors intentionally set the spokesperson, the founder,
Speaker 1: and the chairman of the board up on a false
Speaker 1: narrative with regards the race, it never explained that in
Speaker 1: the bolds that to Wall Street. I think they have
Speaker 1: personal culpability. So yes, I think, um, I think Papa
Speaker 1: John's is extremely vulnerable here and I think they're guilty.
Speaker 1: Do you ever plan on getting your company back? Is
Speaker 1: there is there a way forward for that? Well, we
Speaker 1: talked about a higher power, and you know, things always
Speaker 1: happen for a reason, and the universe is alive and
Speaker 1: everything you know, things always you know are perfect. And
Speaker 1: so I mean, if I was going to take a
Speaker 1: break for Papa John's, what a nice time to take
Speaker 1: a break this last two years. I mean with COVID,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're in the restaurant business and you're dealing
Speaker 1: with something as contagious and inspectuous as COVID nineteen, and
Speaker 1: you're trying to run a restaurant company and you're trying
Speaker 1: to get the people to work, and you're trying to
Speaker 1: get that you know people, the peeps out the door
Speaker 1: made right. So um, we'll see. I'm gonna leave it
Speaker 1: as an option after COVID dissipates, we'll find out how
Speaker 1: Papa John's does, see if they can stand alone two feet.
Speaker 1: But frankly, I've really enjoyed the last few years. I
Speaker 1: was really running Papa John's for thirty four off and
Speaker 1: on for thirty four years. You're on a hamster wheel.
Speaker 1: As you know, it's brutal um and it takes you
Speaker 1: away from things that are really important, you know, like
Speaker 1: you know, taking good care of yourself and taking good
Speaker 1: care of your kids and in my case, grand kids.
Speaker 1: Getting to spend more time with quality friends, quality family,
Speaker 1: and you know, doing little things like we talked about
Speaker 1: helping the entrepreneurs with COVID relief and doing videos on hey,
Speaker 1: you know, how do you get through this as an entrepreneurs.
Speaker 1: So I think it's been a great two yurietus and
Speaker 1: I'll keep my all my options open moving forward, and
Speaker 1: that includes Papa John's. Before I let you go, if
Speaker 1: you wouldn't mind. What are two or three most important
Speaker 1: bits of advice you'd be willing to give you? Entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: are going to start their own companies. Don't give up.
Speaker 1: Don't ever give up until somebody tells you it's a
Speaker 1: dumb idea, and then know you're onto something. When tell
Speaker 1: people tell you you can't do it, Um, you know
Speaker 1: you're onto something. UM. Unsuccessful entrepreneur, here's no Forarner Times,
Speaker 1: And he says, okay, the answer is no. A guy
Speaker 1: like you and I there's a successful entrepreneurs We here
Speaker 1: no for Warner Times and we know the answers yes.
Speaker 1: So don't give up at last, and at least keep
Speaker 1: the attitude positive. I mean, we're in a very tough time,
Speaker 1: our countries at a very tough time. UM, and attitudes,
Speaker 1: our emotions and emotions are infectious. They're contagious. And wake
Speaker 1: up every day, smile, thank God for another day. Go
Speaker 1: out there and be honest, do your best, and things
Speaker 1: will come out the other side in a great place. Well, John,
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for spending this time.
Speaker 1: I hope that the folks who listening to this we'll
Speaker 1: get something out of it and I'm hoping we can
Speaker 1: really and truly move this country forward. And I appreciate
Speaker 1: the time that you've allotted for us here and out
Speaker 1: Loud with Giano Caldwell, and I want to wish you
Speaker 1: well and everything that you're doing, especially as you move
Speaker 1: forward with your lawsuits and and and and giving people
Speaker 1: the context in which you've had the conversation over that
Speaker 1: conference call. So I appreciate the time you spent with
Speaker 1: us today. Thank you so so much, and your audience
Speaker 1: all the best, God blessed. Thanks to John Schnader for
Speaker 1: an intriguing interview. If you enjoying the show, please leave
Speaker 1: us a review and read us with five stars on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast. If you have any questions for me, please
Speaker 1: email me at out Loud at Ginger Street, sixt dot
Speaker 1: com and I'll try to answer them in our future episodes,
Speaker 1: and please sign up for my monthly newsletter at Ginger
Speaker 1: dot com slash out Loud. You can also follow me
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and parlor at Giano Calledwell. And
Speaker 1: if you're interest sitting learning more about my story, please
Speaker 1: pick up a copy of my best selling book titled
Speaker 1: Taken for Granted, How Conservatism Can Win Back the Americans
Speaker 1: at Liberalism failed Special thanks to our producer John Cassio,
Speaker 1: researcher Aaron Klingman, and executive producers Debbie Meyers and of course,
Speaker 1: Speaker new Rich, all part of the Ganis Street sixty network,