1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to Stephanie. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Never told you your prediction of I. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: Heard you, And welcome to another Monday, Mini where we're 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: just going to be mad and sad and angry. Let's 5 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: put a time stamp. Today is March seventh, twenty twenty five. 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: This is something that well, let's just stuff been doing 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: because I it's a lot, it's a lot, okay, And 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: I feel like we can't talk about the downfall of 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 2: humanity in the US without talking about the continued rise 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: of Christian nationalism. And just recently I came up on 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: a new Wish theory so new to me. I didn't 12 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: realize this was being touted. I should have, but I 13 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: think I tried to avoid anything like with Christian nationalism 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: because it's so tainted to me, well, the whole Christianity 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: to me, on a whole, but Christian nationalism in itself. 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: But it is a Jewish theory within extremist Christianity, and 17 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 2: it's the theory of the sin of empathy. So as 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: with those current affairs content we've been publishing again trigger 19 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: warning for all the stressfulness of a world gone mad, 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: but specifically religious trauma. I think we're going to have 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: to open up to add more to the series Annie 22 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: about the actual results of how Christian nationalism has been 23 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: able to take control of the US government and us 24 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: watching it in real time, Like we knew what was coming, 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 2: which is why we started talking about it. The level 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: and the speed that it has come is overwhelming, almost 27 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: like to the point that we are all frozen in fear. 28 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: I feel like or I am maybe that's just me. 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: Interestingly enough, when we were talking to Molly Conger, who 30 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: you'll hear in the future prediction is going to to 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: listen to this than just kidding, I feel in the future. 32 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: But with that, like how we were talking about we 33 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: still need to talk about Project twenty twenty five and 34 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: she's like, it's too late. Oh yeah, but we certainly 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: need to talk about it and we don't want to. 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 2: But with all of that, for this Monday Many, I 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: wanted to take a quick look at this theory and 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 2: why continues to be brought up. First, a reminder, Empathy, 39 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: according to Merriam Webster, is quote the action of understanding, 40 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, 41 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 2: and experience of another and sympathy because this is very 42 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: related obviously, is a feeling of sincere concern for someone 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: who has experienced something difficult or painful. And with that, 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: they say the difference is sympathy and empathy both involved 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: feelings of concern for someone, but empathy goes beyond a 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: feeling of concern to include an active sharing and the 47 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: suffering person's emotional experience. So, you know, we love a 48 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: good definition, and I think is always good to be 49 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: reminded of what this is, and this is what we're 50 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: referring to. So this is from twenty twenty one, and 51 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 2: this is one of the first articles that pop up 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: when I try to look this up about the sin 53 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 2: of empathy. A far right Christian nationalist pastor by the 54 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: name of James White came onto the internet, specifically Twitter, 55 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: to talk about the sins of empathy. In it, he 56 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: talks about his ideas that bringing in someone's trauma and 57 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: making others feel sad or guilty is selfish and poisoning 58 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: the church. According to his site from Alpha and Omega, 59 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: in an apology at Church, he wrote what he'd originally tweeted, 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: which is, hey, folks, Jesus endured all the trauma needed 61 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: to accomplish a redemption and reconciliation. Dragging your emotional trauma 62 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: into the fellowship and making everyone else feel guilty for 63 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: it is the perfect poison for the body. And this 64 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: is capital body. Get over yourself. Is all about him, 65 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: not you. And in the second tweet, it says, when 66 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: you start with Man as image bearing creature of God, 67 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: you can understand why sympathy is good, but empathy is sinful. 68 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: Do not surrender our mind to the sinful emotional responses 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 2: of others. So he goes on to justify his tweets 70 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: with the following from that blog quote. Now, fact of 71 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: the matter is I packed more than sufficient context into 72 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: those two sentences to have stopped ninety five percent of 73 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 2: the absurd blowback that came my way if people were 74 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: not already infected with the quote empathy as required for 75 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: everyone and is how you are loving balderdash of a 76 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: rapidly dying culture. I mean, check it out. So this 77 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: is still his quote. I made the context that of 78 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: creation with Man as the image bearer, the exact opposite 79 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: of the secular worldview, should have been a context settler. Two, 80 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 2: I asserted a direct contrast between the goodness of sympathy 81 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: and the sinfulness of empathy. Three. I then made it 82 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: clear what is sinful about this you of empathy? It 83 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 2: involves the surrender of our minds to the sinful emotional 84 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: responses of others. Just so y'all understand, secular means non church, 85 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 2: non Christian, and I think people already know that. But 86 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 2: just in case you know, in my mind, yes people 87 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: know this, but I grew up in church. Lingo, there's 88 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: so much in his Like I said what I said 89 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: in his blog, y'all, I have once again corrupted my 90 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: search with all of this, just so you know. So 91 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: now I'm getting things that I'm like, No, but why 92 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: so if why I don't look at these up? If 93 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 2: you don't want that type of extremism in your in 94 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: your in your search results, now you should clean that. 95 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: I do need to. It's I'm a personal one too. 96 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you've got to fix that up anyway. And 97 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,239 Speaker 2: to give more context of why empathy is the problem, 98 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 2: he further explains, quote, so what is the problem with 99 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: empathy today? We are, in fact told to weep with 100 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 2: those who weep, But that assumes those who we have 101 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: a reason for weeping that is in line with God's revelation. 102 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: We are not to weep with a drug dealer who 103 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: accidentally drops his stash down the storm drain in New 104 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: York City. We are not to weep with a bankropper 105 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: who botches the job and ends up in the slammer. 106 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 2: We are plainly to exercise control even in our sympathy. 107 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: We are not to sympathize with sin, nor are we 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: to sympathize with rebellion or evil. And again they are 109 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: the authority of what is sin and evil as a 110 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: context here, of course, here we could talk a lot 111 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: about the hypocritical nature of how we should also not 112 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 2: allow a rapist convicted felon not only lead the country 113 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: but put him on a pedestal that many see him 114 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: as directly appointed by the same God. Or how often 115 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 2: churches will hide predators by allowing forgiveness and empathy to 116 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: be the lead so that the predators can continue to 117 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: lead in the same churches. You know, don't worry about 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: that part. We're not talking about. That's not real sin, right. 119 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 120 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: Of course we could also go into the deeper level 121 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: of Calvinism, and that's the whole division in itself when 122 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: it comes to religion and denomination and Calvinism being essentially 123 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: like you can't do and it's God's plans, so why 124 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: even try it? People have been ordained, previously preordained into 125 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: this role that you're in, so why do you even try? Essentially, 126 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: there's a weird level of like seniority and like supremacy 127 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: when it comes to that conversation, I'm about to get 128 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: people mad at me. I don't care, come at me, 129 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: bro So No, it seems the sin of empathy is 130 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: when we are empathetic to homosexuality, which he uses as 131 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: an example of quote the Great Empathy commandment that has 132 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: been used for the quote degradation of Christian morals and ethics. Well, 133 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: from that blog quote, sixty years ago, it was almost 134 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: unthinkable that Christian people would buy a majority think homosexuality 135 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: a quote gift from God. But that is the case today. 136 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: Why empathy? And this is still his quotes. He's saying, 137 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: walk a mile in their shoes, consider their life, enter 138 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 2: into their emotional experience, and enter into as capitalized. Then 139 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: it went from a simple homosexuality to the redefining of marriage, 140 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: now polyamory, polygamy, and with twenty fifteen. Every form of 141 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: gender destroying quote experience, you must empathize. You must quote 142 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: enter in, or you're unloving already. The push to empathize 143 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: with those who naturally experience quote intergenerational love pedophiles is 144 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: in the academy and the culture. Marrying your cat or 145 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: your Siamese fighting fish is just around the corner. Just 146 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: empathize with the experience, validate it, then submit okay, and 147 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: it should be noted as ady you talked about before. 148 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 2: He uses every stereotypical offensive defense against not even stereotypical, 149 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: just like outright wrong, a defense against homosexuality, pedophilia, marrying 150 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: your pets, etc. 151 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm so interested about a Siamese fighting fish. I don't 152 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,079 Speaker 1: know if that's to. 153 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: Say it out loud, because I don't know what that 154 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 2: is up and he just wanted to be racist about it. 155 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: At the same time, it's quite possible that feels like 156 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: that guy's mo oh, and I don't know him. 157 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: We don't know him, we don't know that's man. Not 158 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: sorry to that man. If you are a person who 159 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: knows about fish and that is actually a fighting that 160 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: is a thing, please send us that picture because I 161 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: need to know what this is and who's being racist? 162 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, we laughed, so we don't cry. 163 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: I read all. I read it so you didn't have to. Yes, 164 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: they you do every trick in the book in order 165 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 2: to make you feel insane for being kind and compassionate. 166 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 2: I mean, to be fair, this is one step away 167 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: from love, uh hate the sin love the sinner mentality, 168 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: which by the way, is so condescending. But there's really 169 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: like nothing I can say to that, but they do. 170 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: They He hits on every nerve of like what is 171 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: what's next? You're gonna you're gonna marry, You're gonna marry 172 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: your favorite shoe and say that's your like if that 173 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 2: y'all owe me present to the people that I bought 174 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: your heterosexual wedding day gifts to and all y'all owe 175 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: me money. So I'm gonna marry my shoes so you can. 176 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: That's gonna be take it out of context somewhere. But 177 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: like he does, he gets through every level of like 178 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 2: insulting manner to say homosexuality is so bad and leads 179 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: to other sins But by the way, I have never 180 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: heard anybody, especially from like those who struggle to come 181 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: out saying this was a gift from God, like saying 182 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 2: that they have learned to love themselves. Yeah, I have 183 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: heard that. Yeah, but the struggle and the fight and 184 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: the and the like constant way to prove their humanity 185 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: that they A lot of people wouldn't necessarily say that. 186 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: No, And I've told the story before in middle school. 187 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: In middle school, I would pray to God, please you 188 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: did not make me gay. Please let that not be true. 189 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: It's yeah, it is. I was scared of it, right, 190 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: and it's really sad to look back now. But no, 191 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: I'd never considered it a gift from God. I think, 192 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: like the other part of that conversation is there's a 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: lot of like, well, why would God make me like this? 194 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: Are you telling me I'm defective? 195 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: Right? 196 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Clearly that's what this guys. 197 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And obviously all gay people are in polyamorous relationships, 198 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: all of them. 199 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, because we're so sexual, even the asexual. 200 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: Ones we love because we don't want to cry, y'all. 201 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 202 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: So un with that. White is having this conversation in 203 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, so obviously he has been ascribed to this, 204 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 2: and the idea kind of has kept spreading, if not 205 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: just growing and has become political. Two books are or 206 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: have been written with this idea, won by Alibeth Stucky 207 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: titled Toxic Empathy How Progressive exploit Christian compassion? 208 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: Wow. 209 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: By the way, her website is bright blue and so lovely, 210 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 2: and she's exactly what you would imagine as a Christian 211 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: white woman with all the makeup. Anyway, a bit from 212 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: her website Toxicempathy dot com, they write and Toxic Empathy. 213 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: Alibeth Stucky argues that empathy has become a tool of 214 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 2: manipulation by left wing activists, wholly people into believing that 215 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: they must adopt progressive positions to be loving. She explores 216 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: the five most heated issues through which toxic empathy is deployed. Abortion, gender, sexuality, immigration, 217 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: and social justice. Progressives use catchy mantras to present their 218 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: perspective as empathetic, like abortion is healthcare, love is love, 219 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: or no human being is illegal, but in each case 220 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: they ignore the other side of the moral equation. For example, 221 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: abortion is presented as compassionate for the woman, but what 222 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: about the human life the procedure kills. The book isn't 223 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: about killing empathy, It's about submitting our empathy to God's 224 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: definitions of love, goodness, and justice. Stucky exposes the logical 225 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: pitfaults and moral consequences of toxic empathy, equipping questions with 226 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: research back to biblical truths to dismantle the progressive lives 227 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: that have permeated our culture and our church. So I 228 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: love the only thing that they can argue about in 229 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 2: the actual summary is abortion. They can't talk about immigration 230 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: and social justice much in itself because I'm like, how 231 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: how what? 232 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: Yeah? And i' mean going back to the hypocrisy, it's 233 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: just it feels, so are you being a compassionate Christian? 234 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: Like this doesn't feel like you're listening to the to 235 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: yourself talk? 236 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: Right? 237 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: I mean, of course the level of like you're killing 238 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 2: a baby, That rhetoric in itself has been used forever, yes, 239 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: and then telling people well if you have been aborted. 240 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and it's also like it it's so it's 241 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: just so hypocritical because you know, like these are these 242 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: are just phrases like abortion is healthcare, love is left. 243 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: There's a lot more nuanced to that stuff. There's a 244 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: lot more behind that. There's a lot of research backing 245 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: that strife fact, but to just use it as like 246 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to make me care about someone else, and 247 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: here's why it's bad sin. 248 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: How dare you? Oh my goodness, we're I obviously I 249 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: have not read this book. Everything comes from just directly 250 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: from the site and my opinions and my assumptions, Like, 251 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 2: let's say that on what this is going to be, 252 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's going to be tales of crimes committed 253 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: by refugees or whatever that are that happened, but they're 254 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: dropping the bucket compared to the crimes that have happened 255 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: by white men. Let's just be honest. I mean again, 256 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: our president of fellin yep. So the one that is 257 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: coming out this year is by Joe Rigney titled The 258 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 2: Sin of Empathy, Compassion and its Counterfeits. So Rygney is 259 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 2: actually credited with coining the term in twenty nineteen for 260 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 2: his church. So he is the one that people are 261 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: saying he's the one that began this. In his blog, 262 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: he uses a CS Lewis book screwtape letters to get 263 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 2: this point across. So here's a bit from Baptistnews dot com. 264 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: Writing to his imaginary friend Wormwood. Rigney advises quote by 265 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: elevating empathy over compassion as a superior virtue. There is 266 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 2: now an entire culture devoted to the total immersion of empathy. Books, 267 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: articles in social media all trumpet the importance of checking 268 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: one's own beliefs, values, judgments, and reasons at the door 269 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 2: of empathy. So in this article written by Mark Wingfield, 270 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 2: which by the way, I like he must really be 271 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 2: in this as well, because he's his articles kind of 272 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: keep popping up for me in baptistnews dot com. And 273 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: he is a Christian, by the way. In this conversation, 274 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 2: but he wrote this in twenty twenty one, and he 275 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: goes on to explain how Rigney now sees empathy as 276 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: a sin, that empathy trumps any religious ideal and belief 277 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 2: therefore has become an idealized emotion used as a weapon 278 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: against Christians. This is what he say, Rigney is saying. 279 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: And here they often argue the need for sympathy said, 280 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 2: and when I say that, I don't mean Wingfield, I 281 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: mean Rigny and those who believe this idea. Interestingly, we 282 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 2: in social work believe people and I believe people like 283 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 2: in the therapy world also talk about the differences of 284 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: sympathy and empathy, and sometimes used in conversation of what 285 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: a sociopath and a psychopath can experience due to the 286 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: lack of empathy, like, without it, you're probably a sociopath 287 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: or a psychopath or a narcissist, somewhere on that level 288 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 2: where you cannot understand other people and therefore you are 289 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 2: so involved in yourself that you do not care about 290 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 2: the harm you cause because you don't have empathy. The 291 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 2: sounds like an overarching statement. So of course I'm not 292 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 2: saying everyone that's not the case, but we're saying that 293 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: in this conversation that can be one of the things 294 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 2: that people look at and be like, oh, it looks 295 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: like he's lacking empathy. That explains why he did it 296 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: this way because he could not understand the humanity. And 297 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: again not for all people, because I've met people who 298 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: couldn't who have admitted they couldn't empathize, but they sympathized 299 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: and understood the good and wrong in this situation. So 300 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: believe that that. I'm sure the theories have moved. It's 301 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: a lot more complex than that, but there's still something 302 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 2: to note. So moving on. According to the different articles 303 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: that talk about this big debate. Many Christians disagree full 304 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 2: hardly with this take and have even left churches due 305 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 2: to this take. So Wrigley's church was actually I don't 306 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 2: know if you know who John Piper is, but he 307 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: wrote the book Desiring God and Yo when I was 308 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 2: in my Christian world, that was huge. That was huge. 309 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: There's a lot of shame I have in that realm 310 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: of the world. So for those of you who may 311 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: have known me from my years of Christian antics, I 312 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 2: am so sorry. I've changed. I am so sorry. But 313 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 2: with all of that, the people like in that church 314 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 2: actually split with him Rigney and Rigney left that church 315 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 2: because it became such a huge thing. They had this 316 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 2: whole one hundred and fifth anniversary that they had to 317 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 2: pause because of this debate that he'd started on their side. 318 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: So again, not all Christians feel this way. One such 319 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 2: person who is pushing back on this doctrine includes Scott McKnight, 320 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: and he is quoted in Wingfield's articles saying, from the 321 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 2: best I can tell, these denouncers of empathy are distinguishing 322 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: the virtue of compassion from the potential vice of empathy. 323 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 2: He writes, the former means to suffer with the latter 324 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: to suffer in or to fill with and fill in. 325 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: The former is rational, the latter appears to be less 326 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: rational and perhaps irrational, at least in their constructions. It's 327 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: okay to suffer with, but not to suffer in this view, 328 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: McKnight says, this may be the most unwise piece of 329 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: pastoral theology I've seen in my life. Pastors without empathy 330 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 2: are not pastoring. Dang right. I'm like, okay, okay, see, 331 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: we're gonna give both sides to this, because I don't 332 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: believe it's everyone and is not. Here's another quote from 333 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: that article. Quote. Shane mo is a licensed marriage and 334 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 2: family therapist and trauma treatment provider in private practice in 335 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: the Twin Cities area. He has extensive experience treating a mental, emotional, 336 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: and relational health concerns in the Christian community. He sees 337 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 2: in the empathy as sin crowd a fear of vulnerability. 338 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 2: These advocates quote appear to assume that empathy inherently makes 339 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 2: one untethered, that one can't experience empathy towards someone else 340 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 2: without losing oneself, getting hijacked, or sort of becoming the 341 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: other in belief or practice. Mose talking about the fear 342 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 2: of vulnerability from this group of male believers specifically, So 343 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 2: he goes on to say within that article, Yes, allowing 344 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: ourselves to experience empathy can make us more vulnerable to 345 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 2: gasp the influence of those who think differently than we do, 346 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: he explains, And if one lives in a perpetual state 347 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 2: of spiritual hypervigilance or fear of potentially being wrong or corrupt, 348 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 2: and thus with a deep seated existential anxiety surrounding theological 349 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: eye theological differences and change, one might consequently come to 350 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: see empathy as a threat. And as we've talked about 351 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: this before, this theory could be an issue of control 352 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: within the religious world. As So concludes in his interview 353 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 2: with this comment, if someone is saying you can't experience 354 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: empathy without being compromised by another person, there's a good 355 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: chance they're projecting out of their own psychosocial emotional boundary deficits, 356 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: lack of emotional intelligence or absence of self differentiation. Mowarms. 357 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 2: There are reasons some of my client's family members who 358 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 2: exhibit narcissistic traits and who have engaged in consistent patterns 359 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: of spiritual and psychological abuse toward My clients have been 360 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: attracted to this empathy as a sin teaching and to 361 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: this church. It feeds perfectly into their narcissism and psychological 362 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 2: dependence upon maintaining power and control. Now that's something that 363 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: we were talking all throughout our Religious Trauma episodes about 364 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: what this is. It is not about spirituality, it's not 365 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: about beliefs, it's not about stating peace. It is about control. 366 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 2: And this narrative fits in perfectly if they were losing 367 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: people because people were like, wait, why are you being mean? 368 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 2: That doesn't seem christ like. They were losing people that way, 369 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: so they're like, Eh, no, that's the sin. You're being fooled. 370 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 2: Don't care. You can feel sorry for them, but being 371 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 2: sorry for them is enough. Pity is enough, but you 372 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't be accepting of anything. So within this conversation, it's 373 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 2: going to become more and more of a defense within 374 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: the right wing religious conservatives. When Episcopal Bishop Mary and 375 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: Buddy came on to speak at the inaugural prayer service, 376 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: Trump supporters were upset as she made a plea to 377 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: the new president for mercy, with her words quote, let 378 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: me make one final plea, mister President, the soft spoken 379 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: bishop said from the pulpit of the Washington National Cathedral, 380 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 2: I asked you to have mercy upon the people in 381 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: our country who are scared. 382 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: Now. 383 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 2: There are gay, lesbian, and transgendered children in Democratic, Republican 384 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 2: and independent families, some who feel for their lives. The 385 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 2: vast majority of immigrants are not criminals, calling them good 386 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 2: neighbors and faithful members of religious communities. So that was 387 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 2: a quote from the Daily Costs, who were just like 388 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 2: Republicans are mad. They're mad, and we're going to actually 389 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 2: talk a little more in a different episode about her, 390 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: but like that was it. That was her speech was 391 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: about unity and coming together and and knowing that this 392 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: is a really hard time. But having the president there, 393 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: she's like, let me ask, let me just ask you 394 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: please think about these people. And she is very self spoken, 395 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 2: like nothing is threatening, yelling or any of that. She 396 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: just quietly said this no nicer than I could mm hm. Obviously, 397 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: So the right wing community came out swinging, including tweets 398 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 2: and posts reminding their followers quote, do not commit the 399 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 2: sin of empathy. So Ben Garrett went on saying in 400 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: his tweet, quote, this snake is God's enemies and yours too. 401 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: She hates God and his people. You need to properly 402 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: hate in response. She is not merely deceived, but is 403 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 2: a deceiver. Your eye shall not pity like he full 404 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 2: on tells them to hate her. Wow for saying marciful hate. 405 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: Wow, that's not what I remember in my during my 406 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: tenure at church. 407 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: And I believe he's a deacon and writes for a 408 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: church as well, so as a former believer in myself, 409 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 2: this idea has baffled me. I have I've thoughts, so 410 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 2: many thoughts, but it's like baffling to understand why they 411 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: would do this. But at the same time, you know 412 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 2: why they would do this. We know why. We know 413 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 2: the play. We've already talked about it, we've made it 414 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: an eight to ten part series. We know why. But 415 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: after using emotion as a tool to reign in their 416 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: grow with fear and hell, they now have to turn 417 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: that around to remind people to not feel too much, 418 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 2: because to truly love is something that makes many people 419 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: see the truth. So like, maybe I'm saying that too optimistically, 420 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 2: Like people who really realize that what's happening here, you 421 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 2: know that maybe that's the point of like, oh wait, this, 422 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: this seems off. This seems off again. Maybe I'm being 423 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 2: too optimistic, but like we noted, there's a lot of 424 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: people who are like, this is not this is not it. 425 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: This is not it. This is not the Jesus I know. 426 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 2: Interesting side note, some have stated that Rigney has made 427 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 2: statements implying marital rape does not exist, and I believe 428 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: he said that in sermons, but I could not find 429 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: the sources specifically. And I will say this was a 430 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: quick research, like it took me less time to do 431 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: this than my typical episodes. But there's plenty of conversations 432 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: out there. So what I did see is that groups 433 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: are using his books coming out as well his conversations 434 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: before his blogs, because these aren't many of papers on 435 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 2: this to remind their followers that women are very vulnerable 436 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: to empathy and that is why they need to be controlled. 437 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: From your source. One dot com dominic Vonnie talks about 438 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 2: a sermon by Gray City church pastors who apparently Rickney 439 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: has mentored and it has many conversations with them where 440 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 2: he states the church pastor states empathy almost needs to 441 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: be struck from a Christian vocabulary. McPherson said, that's the pastor. 442 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: Empathy is dangerous. Empathy is toxic. Empathy will align you 443 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 2: with hell. And it's women who are especially susceptible to 444 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: feeling empathy. That's why men need to control who they 445 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: are in contact with. It's not ungodly for a man 446 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: to speak into who his wife is friends with, who 447 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 2: she can hang out with, who she listens to. McPherson says, 448 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 2: women can be vulnerable two friends and those she has 449 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 2: a history with, and it is a husband's job to 450 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: control those relationships lest she do you participate in spread 451 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 2: or listen to gossip and slander against the church like 452 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: Maphearson McMullen, who is another pastor, connects gossip to empathy 453 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: and frames them as largely female sins, and that seems 454 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 2: to be the beginning of one of the hour long sermon, 455 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: continuing on with the explanation of women being the weaker sex. 456 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 2: Women who are strong causes divide relationships. They are the 457 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 2: ones who plant the sin of divorce, and that's why 458 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: they're so much divorce. Like this is all within the sermon. 459 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: Of course, within all of this, we have the everlasting 460 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: sin of impurity. Because you got to add that in 461 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 2: there somewhere. So in a medium dot com post, Dan 462 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 2: Foster writes, quote, according to Rigney, compassion is good because 463 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: it allows you to care while maintaining control. Empathy, however, 464 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 2: is dangerous because it involves stepping into another person's experience 465 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 2: so deeply that you risk losing perspective. But this isn't 466 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 2: just about perspective, It's about purity. Under Ringney's logic, the 467 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: real danger of EmPATH the isn't just that it clouds judgment. 468 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 2: It's that it might lead us to feel too much 469 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: for the wrong people. That if we sit too long 470 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: with the grieving, the suffering, the broken, we might start 471 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 2: to understand them, And if we understand them, we might 472 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: start to care about their pain in a way that 473 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: disrupts our theology. That's the fear. So this whole level 474 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: which is coming out in force, is again mainly due 475 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: to the whole lack of asking for empathy from an 476 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 2: administration that has none asking for mercy. There's a lot happening, 477 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: and the underlying reasons are different for different people. But 478 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: as we continue to talk about how Christian nationalism has 479 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 2: come into power, we have to understand some of their 480 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: tactics and how dangerous their rhetoric is. The loss of 481 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: empathy means a loss of humanity. Again, it's very obvious 482 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: by the many articles and please from the other Christians 483 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: about how dangerous and wrong this narrative is. That many 484 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 2: Christians do not believe in this idea, but many are 485 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 2: ignoring it for the sake of unity or just the 486 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: sake of being comfortable. And that is so dangerous, not 487 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 2: holding your own people, their own people to a standard 488 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: and calling out what they see is wrong. And that 489 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: is a problem. And I say this as I have 490 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: a whole family who I am scared of losing my 491 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 2: family with this type of rhetoric. And the minute they 492 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: speak this rhetic to me, I know it'll be over 493 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: like that. It's going to end so many things. That 494 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 2: means I've lost my second family literally like my biological 495 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 2: family and my adoptive family. But it has to be 496 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: at the very least they need to understand how uncomfortable 497 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: this is. That they need to see how oddly like 498 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 2: they went from people who my mother is the queen 499 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 2: of empathy to the reason why I was adopted in 500 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: the first place. Can't understand how this is so damaging 501 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: just because she just ignores it and says things like 502 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 2: they don't really mean that. M hm, that's not what 503 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 2: they really mean. Yeah, and for the same people who 504 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: sit here and going, yeah, but I'm fysically conservative, that's conservative. 505 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: That's why I voted that way. M h and not 506 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: get I know our listeners you probably are like, no, 507 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 2: I'm with you, I'm with you, But I think it's 508 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,719 Speaker 2: something to know that we have to know exactly what 509 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 2: is being said, yeah, and why it's dangerous. Yeah. 510 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: I mean again, especially given where our politics are, we 511 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: have to pay attention to a lot of really terrible 512 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: stuff unfortunately. But yes, whoa listeners. If you have any 513 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: thoughts about this, please let us know. You can email 514 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: us at Hello at stuff Whenever Told You dot com. 515 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: You can find us on thu ski at mom Stuff 516 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff When Never 517 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: Told You. We're on YouTube, we have a tea public store, 518 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you 519 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, 520 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: executive Bruce and Maya, and a contributor Joey. Thank you 521 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never told you 522 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: protection of my heart Radio. For more podcasts from my 523 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, 524 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.