1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, Fun Stuff 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello and Tracy Wilson. About six months ago, 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: we put out an episode that was called Six Impossible Episodes, 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: and it was six subjects that are really frequent listener requests, 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: but for some reason or another they could not really 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 1: stand on their own as individual episodes. And people seem 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: to enjoy that one. And since then we've collected another 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: heaping handful of topics that people are asking for a lot, 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: but which we can't quite be a whole show on. 10 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: So today six more Impossible Episodes. All right, These are 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: fun because it's a you know, a little less intensive 12 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: than digging super deep in like a long, full length episode, 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: and it's like a nice little shworket sport. Yes, and 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: I am writing on an airplane four times in six days, 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: so that's why we're doing this today. Yeah, there, it's 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: going to be super fun. I love it. So. First one, 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: anytime we say anything about Paul Revere on our Facebook 18 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: posts or anywhere else on the internet, really at least 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: one person, but far more often it is more than 20 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: one asks the same question, which is, how come nobody 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: ever talks about Sybil Luddington, and so in case you 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: maybe aren't from the United States, on the eve of 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War, Paul Revere was part of a now 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: famous ride to spread the word of an impending attack, 25 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: and later on in the war, Sybil Luddington also made 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: a different but far less famous ride. So anytime we 27 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: say Paul Revere, it's like a call in response somebody 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: else says Sybil Lendington. You could use that as the 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: alternate to Marco Polo is a pool game, I'm pretty sure. So. 30 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: Sybil was born in Connecticut on April fifth, seventeen sixty one, 31 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: and when she was still a abe, her family moved 32 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: to Duchess County, New York, which lies along the New 33 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: York Connecticut border. Her father, Henry Luttington, had decades of 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: military experience, so as war loomed between Britain and its 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: colonies in North America, he quickly became a colonel and 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: was put in command of a regiment that was responsible 37 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: for guarding territory along the New York Connecticut border. This 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: is a pretty critical piece of land because it was 39 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: one of the primary ways that the Loyalists could reach 40 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: Long Island Sound from elsewhere farther inland. That's why when 41 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: Governor William Tryon and his men rated Danbury, Connecticut in 42 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy seven, a rider was sent from Danbury to 43 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: the Luddington home in Duchess County to ask Sybel's father 44 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: to send help. Danbury was also strategically important, and it 45 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: was home to several Continental Army storehouses that were full 46 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: of food, munitions, and other supplies. So this rider that 47 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: had been dispatched was too exhausted to continue by the 48 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: time he got to the letting and home, and Colonel 49 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: Luddington needed to prepare for battle, so he sent his 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: oldest child, Sibyl, to muster his forces so they could 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: go to Danbury's aid. It's not totally clear whether she 52 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: volunteered for this task or whether she was sent, and 53 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: at this point, Sybil had just turned sixteen, and her 54 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: ride wound through forty miles of mostly wooded territory at night. 55 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: So Sybil's age and the length of her ride, which 56 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: was longer than Paul Revere's, are often held up as 57 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: reasons why she is really more deserving of a claim 58 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: than Paul Revere was. And then there's often this undertone 59 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: of well, she should have had that acclaim, and she 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: would have if she were a man. But as most 61 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: of these things go, there's more to it than that. 62 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: Paul Revere's ride is famous largely because of Henry Wadsworth 63 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: Longfellow's poem, first published in eighteen sixty one, and that 64 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: is the one that starts with listen, my children, and 65 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: you shall hear of the midnight ride of Paul Revere. 66 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: It's not a very historically accurate poem, which is why 67 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people remember wrong things about Paul Revere's ride, 68 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: including that he was not the only one that was 69 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: on it. Right, the poem is only about him. But 70 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: this poem was written more than eighty years after the 71 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: ride in question took place, and it was written after 72 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: Longfellow visited the Old North Church in Boston, which is 73 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,559 Speaker 1: more more formally known as Christ Church. And the Old 74 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: North Church is the one where the one if by 75 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: Land too if by Sea signal lanterns were hung. And 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 1: there are several likely reasons why Paul Revere is the 77 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: star of this poem and not someone else. Apart from 78 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: his ride to warn of the attack, he was a 79 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: prominent Boston citizen and an active participant in other parts 80 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: of the Revolutionary War. For example, he made an engraving 81 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: of the Boston massacre that we talked about in our 82 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: episode on that event. Paul Revere also served with Longfellow's 83 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: grandfather in the service, And just to be really basic 84 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: about it, I think we should add that Revere is 85 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: easy to rhyme things with. It is much easier to 86 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: rhyme things with than Luddington. So when Longfellow was writing 87 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: his poem about someone he had a family connection to, 88 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: whose ride connected to a place he had just visited, 89 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: Luddington's story hadn't even been written down yet. It survived 90 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: as family lore for roughly one hundred years before it 91 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: was actually published anywhere, and Sybil's great nephew, historian Lewis S. Patrick, 92 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: wrote about it in nineteen o seven, at which point 93 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: school children were already memorizing the Longfellow poem. So you 94 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: could totally make the argument that Civil Lettington's gender meant 95 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: she could not make a name for herself the way 96 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: Paul Revere did and later become famous thanks to a 97 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: historically inaccurate poem. We just don't really know anything about 98 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: her beyond the fact that when the war was over, 99 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: she got married to a Revolutionary word veteran named Edward Ogden. 100 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: They had a son, and they later opened a tavern, 101 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: and she died on February eighteen thirty nine. Just was 102 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: not the sort of prominent, publicly facing citizen that Paul 103 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: Revere had been, and we don't have any primary source 104 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: documentation about her ride at all, and even tiny details 105 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: like how she spelled her name are different based on 106 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: the things like her tombstone, her signature, and census records 107 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: literally spelled differently in all of those places. So in 108 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: terms of no one talking about her, there are many 109 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: many children's books about Sibyl Lannington, and she was commemorate 110 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: commemorated on a bicentennial postage stamp in even when she lived, 111 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: George Washington himself came to her home to thank her 112 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: personally for having written to muster all the men after 113 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: the Battle of Danbury. There is a particularly fierce looking 114 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: statue of her in Carmel, New York, along with a 115 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: number of historical markers along her ride route. So her 116 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: story just was not well known at all outside of 117 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: her family and maybe local neighbor from the area when 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: the poem that made Paul Revere famous was written. Like, 119 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: that poem was solidly in the collective memory of America 120 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: before Sibyl Luddington's story was even written down at all. Yeah, 121 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: that poem has great scansion, and so it's really easy 122 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: to remember and it's really kind of engaging. But as 123 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: the sort of sad coda as well, Colonel Luddington's efforts 124 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: were also too late to save Danbury. The British burned 125 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: thousands of barrels of food along with tents, shoes, and 126 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: other supplies before Luddington and other reinforcements were able to arrive. 127 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: So that is the story of Sybil Lettington and also 128 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: why people talk about Paul Revere more. Uh. Next up, 129 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: we have one that was requested first by Diane long 130 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: enough ago that it is number fifty six on our 131 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: listeners submitted Ideas list, which is now hundreds and hundreds 132 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: of ideas long. It is the Capuchin Catacomb in Palermo, Sicily, 133 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: which are home to about eight thousand mummies. The Capucin 134 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: community in Palermo was established in fifteen thirty four at 135 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: the Church of Santa Maria de la Pacha. At first, 136 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: the Friars who lived there were buried in what was 137 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: essentially a mass grave, but about sixty years later the 138 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: monastery outgrew. That's that mass burial site, so the Friars 139 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: decided to dig a larger set of catacombs using natural 140 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: caves that already existed in the area. Doing this required 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: them to exhume the bodies that had already been buried, 142 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: and when they did, they found that forty five of 143 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: them had been naturally preserved and we're just in a 144 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: really pristine condition. Their bodies had dehydrated rather than rotting. 145 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: They interpreted this as a sign from God, and then, 146 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: rather than proceeding with what had essentially been planned as 147 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: a bigger mass grave, they decided instead to keep the 148 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: exhumed bodies intact and displayed them as religious relics, and 149 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: the new burial site that they created was built with 150 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: that end goal in mind. They also gradually refined the 151 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: caves natural preservation process into an intentional mummification, which included 152 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: removing the organs and stuffing the cavity of the bodies 153 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: with straw and placing the bodies on terra cotta tubes 154 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: to help them dry faster. The Friars used a number 155 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: of other preservation methods as well. Sylvestro of Gubio was 156 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: a sixteenth century Capuchin monk, and he was the first 157 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: to be buried in these new catacombs. Originally, the only 158 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: bodies that were placed in the catacombs were those of 159 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: Friars who were part of the Order after they died. 160 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: But eventually, as words spread about the catacombs, being mummified 161 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: and placed there after death became a mark of high status, 162 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: so the bodies of nobility and famous local citizens joined 163 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: that those of the Friars, and eventually the Order began 164 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: allowing the burial of anyone who requested it in seventy three. 165 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: One of the things that makes this place so compelling 166 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: is that the bodies, which are very well preserved, are 167 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: out in view you. They're dressed. Family members would even 168 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: come to change the body's clothes. And some are on shelves, 169 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: some hang from hooks, and some are in open coffin 170 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: like containers. Some are posed almost as though their taxidermy displays. 171 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: And there's one hall that's entirely the bodies of infants, 172 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: some of them in cradles, and although they're arranged into 173 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: approximate categories like professionals, priests, monks, virgins. Relatively few of 174 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: these bodies are actually identifying. The Friars stopped burying new 175 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: bodies there in eighteen eighty, and they made only two 176 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: exceptions afterward. One was Giovanni Patterniti, who was buried in 177 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, and the other was Rosalia Lombardo, who was 178 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: two years old and placed there in nineteen twenty. The 179 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: monks teamed up with the European Union to start a 180 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: conservation project on the site in two thousand eight, because 181 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: it has become a major tourist destination, but very little 182 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: had been done up to that point in the centuries 183 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: since it was first built to preserve it. We're going 184 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: to put an image gallery of some pictures of this 185 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: place on our website because it is incredible to look at. 186 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: But most of the information that's available about it in 187 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: English as of right now is sort of like travel 188 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: god type of stuff. It's it's a tourist attraction at 189 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: this point, and most of the things that are written 190 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: about it are written in that vein, so I could 191 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: not find enough richer information to make a whole episode 192 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: out of it, but so many people have asked, we 193 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: want to spend a whole time today. Cool, So before 194 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: we go to our next impossible episode, you want to 195 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: pause from a brief word from a sponsor sounds good. 196 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: Our most recent requests for our next subject, who is 197 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: jean Ditisson, came from Laramie and Mary and two different 198 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: emails very recently, and she, unfortunately, is yet another person 199 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: who falls into the not enough reliable information available in 200 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: English category. We've had some folks right in to tell 201 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: us that we just need to hire some people who 202 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: speak other languages, y'all. It's just the two of us 203 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: and NOL. Like, we don't have like a staff budget. No, 204 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: we we don't have a translation staff. We literally look 205 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: so many things up and we still get them wrong 206 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: because we are not fluent speakers of every language, because 207 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: it is just the two of us and NOL. Yeah, 208 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: and we do try to outsource whilm we can, but 209 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just not feasible right when you're working, uh so. 210 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: Jeanne de Clisson was a noblewoman and a pirate. In 211 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: THTT three, her second husband, Olivier, the third Lord of Clisson, 212 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: was executed for treason upon the orders of King Philip 213 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: the sixth of France, so n pulled her money. She 214 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: bought a fleet of ships, She rallied the support of 215 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: other discontented nobles who were unhappy with Philip the six 216 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: for some reason, and then she went on a rampage 217 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: of terror and piracy. She purportedly painted her ships black 218 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: and died their sales red to make her fleet extremely impressive, 219 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: and she was nicknamed the Lioness of Brittany. I can 220 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: see why lots of people want to hear about her. 221 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: She's fabulous, though a little cutthroat and blood thirsty. M 222 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: She was so successful in her revenge campaign that she 223 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: won the support of King Edward the third of England, 224 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: who loaned her more ships and weapons so she could 225 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: more effectively fight against France. When she was done with 226 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: seeking revenge, she sought and gained sanctuary in the English Court. 227 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: And people like to send us Wikipedia articles at starting points, 228 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: which thank you, but we actually do not use Wikipedia 229 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: for our research, and we're going to talk about our 230 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: research a little bit more later. Uh. And the Wikipedia 231 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: entry for Jenne Dilisson does have more details about her life, 232 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: but they are basically sort of scattered sentences, and it's 233 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: not really documented in terms of sourcing. Yeah, so that's 234 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: not really a valid source for us, and it's it's 235 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: not even the thing the thing that you can do 236 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: we can see what the sources were and start from 237 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: there because it doesn't say where these random sentences of 238 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: facts came from. Who knows. So moving on. Uh, that 239 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: I think is the briefest of our six impossible episodes today. 240 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: Moving on, So we're not sure when the first request 241 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: came in to talk about the Kentucky meat Shower, but 242 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: there were a whole lot that came in after X 243 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: K c D put out comic number fifteen O one, 244 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: which is called Mysteries, and that charts a bunch of 245 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: historical mysteries based on how weird they are and whether 246 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: they can be explained or not. So the Kentucky Meat 247 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: Shower is in the quadrant for stuff that's both really 248 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: weird and also explained. And we have episodes about several 249 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: of the other mysteries that are in that comic, including 250 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: the Mary Celeste D. D. Cooper, the Oak Island money Pit, 251 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: I think, the delf Pass incidents, a bunch of them, 252 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: a lot of them, really, So yeah, I thought about 253 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: doing a whole episode that was just on the mysteries 254 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: from the comic that we haven't covered, And I think 255 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: some people actually did ask for that specifically. But some 256 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: of them are extremely recent and others are basically summarized 257 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: in a sentence. So on March three, eighty six, the Crouches, 258 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: who lived in Bath County, Kentucky, witnessed what appeared to 259 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: be meat falling from a clear sky. And these pieces 260 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: of meat were in various shapes and sizes, some of 261 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: them just little meaty whisps, and some chunks as big 262 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: as a person's hand. The New York Times later wrote 263 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: about this event under the headline flesh descending in a 264 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: shower and all capital letters. So it also sounds like 265 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: a weird um, like the kind of play that you 266 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: would see in an experimental college theater. Oh yeah, So afterwards, 267 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: Alan Crouch and his wife found that a strip of 268 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: their land about a hundred yards long and fifty yards 269 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: wide was just covered in chunks of this meaty substance. 270 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: Neighbors came by to look at it. Their cat ain't 271 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: some of it? Yeah, some people tasted it also. Uh. 272 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: They came up with various theories for what they thought 273 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: it tasted and smelled like, including mutton, venison, and bear, 274 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: and eventually people gathered up pieces of it and sent 275 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: it to various labs for testing, and the various labs 276 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: came back with various results, including that it was dried 277 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: frog spawn, that it was nostock, which is a cyanobacteria 278 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: that forms this gelatinous protective coding, or that it was 279 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: some actual type of animal flesh, And eventually the prevailing 280 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: theory became that it was actually brace vomit, my least 281 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: favorite thing in the world, vulture vomits, which would explain 282 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: why the cat was so drawn to it from from 283 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: vultures that had overindulged on something they had scavenged. That 284 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: makes it super gross. As we said that the cat 285 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: and a number of people ate some of it. So 286 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: there are not really a ton of books or historical 287 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: papers or peer reviewed whatever on this event. It's the 288 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: sort of thing that would be really fun to research 289 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: by going through old newspaper archives to figure out exactly 290 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: what people were saying about it at the time. And 291 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: the thing is, a writer named Matt Soniac has already 292 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: done that in the pages of Mental floss, so trying 293 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: to get a whole article together based on that exact 294 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,880 Speaker 1: same process, which just feel a little bit too much 295 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: like we were cribbing off of his work. There is 296 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: a preserved piece of this meat at the Monroe loos 297 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: Nick Medical and Science Museum at Transylvania University in Lexington, Kentucky. 298 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: If you are yearning to see what the vomity meat 299 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: looks like, I'm not look on your face pretty much 300 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: says it. Also, I won't say the V word anymore. Uh. 301 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: And and we have two more impossible episodes, one of 302 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: which makes us really sad that it's impossible, and we're 303 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: going to talk about them after another brief word from 304 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: a sponsor. Uh. That particular sponsor at this moment is 305 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: scare space the best way to create a beautiful website 306 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: or online store for you and your ideas. I have 307 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: been working online for my selling blog. I'm not gonna lie. 308 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit of a foot dragger, but it's 309 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: coming along and soon we'll actually officially launch. 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Okay, as we said before the break, 336 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: our penultimate impossible episode makes us so sad that it's 337 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 1: been possible. One of our most frequently requested episodes, at 338 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: least after we did one on the night, which is 339 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: so people stopped requesting that one is infamous serial killer Elizabeth, 340 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: or more accurately, Elizabeth Bathory. And Elizabeth Bathory was actually 341 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: the second subject ever covered on our show, so when 342 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: people ask for an episode on her, we point them 343 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: back to that one, which being the second episode ever 344 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: on our show. It is only three minutes long, and 345 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: we don't normally put out duovers of previous hosts episodes. 346 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: History is basically infinite, and even if we would have 347 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: approached the subject in a different way from a previous 348 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: host take on it, there's just so much to cover 349 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: that we haven't already done. Uh. There is an exception. 350 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: I did a review of m um one of them, Zenobia, 351 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: just because that was like a personal zone of super 352 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: interest for me. But normally we don't usually backtrack on 353 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: those um But when it comes to Elizabeth Bathory, we 354 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: get so many requests and so many disappointed follow ups 355 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: when people realize that the old episode is quite brief, 356 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: that it made sense to at least talk about it. So. 357 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Bathory was born in fifteen sixty into Transylvaane, his 358 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: ruling family. She was very wealthy, very beautiful, and very 359 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: well educated, and when she was eleven or twelve, she 360 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: was betrothed to a member of another prominent family, but 361 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: a couple of years later she actually had a child 362 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,680 Speaker 1: by a different man, who her fiance purportedly killed by 363 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: having him castrated and then ravaged by dogs. Bathori's illegitimate 364 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: child was kept secret from the rest of the world, 365 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: and her marriage went ahead is planned when she was fourteen. 366 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: Her husband died when she was forty three. In between 367 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: their marriage and his death, she had four children. By 368 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: the time of her husband's death in sixteen o four, 369 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: there were rumors spreading that she was sadistic and cruel, 370 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: and these rumors really escalated after his passing. There were 371 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: stories that she tortured her servants and the daughters of 372 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: peasants who were living in the area. She was rumored 373 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: to drink their blood and bathe in it in order 374 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: to preserve her beauty and her youth authorities actually investigated her. 375 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: In sixteen ten, Count Georgie Thursoh, who was Bathori's cousin, 376 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: was sent by King Mattias to find out what was 377 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: going on, and he reportedly walked in on Bath three 378 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: conducting a torture session. He took depositions from people both 379 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: within and outside of the estate, and he concluded that 380 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: Elizabeth had killed six hundred girls with the help of 381 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: her servants. She was placed under arrest that December. Four 382 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: people who were reported to be her accomplices were tried, 383 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: and three of them were executed. One was sentenced to 384 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: life in prison. She herself was never tried, but she 385 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: was confined to a window room in the castle for 386 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: the rest of her life, which ended in sixteen fourteen. 387 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: She was found dead on August twenty one of that year. 388 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: There's some evidence to suggest that the claims against Bath 389 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: three were deeply embellished, or were in fact slander. King 390 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: Matthias owed Bath three a great deal of money, and 391 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: her family apparently waived that debt in exchange for getting 392 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: control of her captivity. Those same family members also got 393 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: control over all of her land, so unfortunately it became 394 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: clear almost immediately when trying to research a full length 395 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: episode on Elizabeth Bathory that it just was not going 396 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: to happen. There are several brief articles about her from 397 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 1: reputable sources, but the couple of books that have been 398 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: written about her in English were both self published. Now, 399 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: we're not knocking the idea of publishing your own work 400 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: or of reading self published work. Of course, you may 401 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: do what you want, but since we are not experts 402 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: in a lot of the things we talked about, we 403 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: take a number of steps to try to ensure that 404 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: the work we do you has been approached with a 405 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: high degree of ecademic rigor. We did, actually, very late 406 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: in the game find out about one non self published 407 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: book in English. But then, uh, neither of us is 408 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: really comfortable sourcing an entire podcast from one book whose 409 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: facts we can't verify through other independent sources. So that's that, uh, 410 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: and that brings us to impossible Episode six. Yeah, a 411 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: lot of people ask us to do an episode that's 412 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: about research tips or ideas on where they can find 413 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: information on particular subjects, and we talked about this a 414 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: little bit in our Listener Male f a Q episode 415 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. But that one was more 416 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: devoted to our process of making podcasts, and having a 417 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: whole episode on research tips seemed like stretch. But since 418 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: we're having to round out our six and to tie 419 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: onto the one we just talked about, uh some tips 420 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: for research. So when it comes to two books, for me, 421 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: the books that I read for episodes are usually person's 422 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: memoirs that they wrote themselves about their own lives. And 423 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: often if there is some contention about whether the person's 424 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: memoirs are embellished, we will say that yes, um and 425 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: otherwise most of the books, there are some exceptions, but 426 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: most of the books that I used for the podcast 427 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: have been published by academic presses, and so you have 428 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: some confidence that there has been like an editor involved 429 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: in fact checking and helping to make sure that the 430 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: whole thing is is as accurate and uh correct as possible. 431 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: That's like one of the steps of making sure that 432 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: the information that we're getting is right, which is why 433 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: for our podcast specifically, I wouldn't normally use the self 434 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: a self published book unless it was somebody's own self 435 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: published memoir. Yeah, and one of the things that I 436 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 1: do usually it's unusual that I think either of us 437 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: would just use one in book for an episode. Uh So, 438 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: one of the things that I do, even when they 439 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: are meeting all of the criteria Tracy just talked about, 440 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: is I kind of do a little pattern recognition, like 441 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: where are there some things that come up slightly different, 442 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: because I try to trace those back to the root 443 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: and find out what is consistent across all of them 444 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: and where they may have diverged and what may have 445 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: caused that. Um. Because there are cases where things get 446 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: a little wiggly, uh in part just in the writing process, 447 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: as as one person tries to tell the story of 448 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: someone and another person does that, they may use language 449 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: that kind of maybe not always even on purpose, conveys 450 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: a different meaning in the historical record. So we try 451 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: to really root those out across multiple sources. And this 452 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: is where I am going to advocate for your local library. UM. 453 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: Which may sound ridiculous that a lot of people think 454 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: about going to the library and checking out books, but 455 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: most public public library systems at this point have databases 456 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: that anyone with a library card can access where you 457 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: can get a lot more academic information on subjects, things 458 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: that have been through peer review, things that have been 459 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: through some kind of like more stringent editorial process to 460 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: make sure that what is on the page is as 461 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: accurate as it can be. So usually my uh, my 462 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: research process involves books when they are available, and then 463 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: from databases any number of uh like academic papers on stuff, 464 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: and then um, when there are not those sorts of 465 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: things available, things that are from people who, in one 466 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: way or another are the experts in that particular field. Right, So, 467 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: local library, that's my big research tip. Anytime anybody emails 468 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: us and says, can you give me research tips, local library, 469 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: It's gonna help you out a lot. That's usually a 470 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: reference librarian who can help you with lots of tips 471 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: about like what your specific library system offers. UM being 472 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: now in a totally different public library system than I 473 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,959 Speaker 1: was when I was actually living here locally to our 474 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: office where I'm recording this episode from today. Actually, uh, 475 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: different libraries can have vastly different offerings in terms of 476 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: exactly which databases they offer and what other services they have. 477 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: So each library system's reference librarian will help you out. 478 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: And I will say this having um worked in a 479 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: library for more than a decade and having still a 480 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: lot of friends who are librarians and specifically reference librarians. 481 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: They often love it if you go to them with 482 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: a juicy research topic. They get so excited because a 483 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: lot of times it's just people wanting to like put 484 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: together something simple for like I have to do a 485 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: research paper, or I have a reference librarian friend who 486 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 1: finally had to put the kaibosh on the person who 487 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: kept coming in to do her son's homework. But but 488 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: she gets really excited when someone comes to her with 489 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 1: a really interesting research topic. And I think a lot 490 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: of times if you develop a relationship with your local 491 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,239 Speaker 1: reas librarian, don't drive them crazy. But certainly those are 492 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: people you want to make friends with because they can 493 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: help you find stuff you never would have even known existed. Yes, yes, 494 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: my fiance is a librarian and most of his library 495 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: work involves more the curation of data than book stuff 496 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: at this point, So whenever we are talking about podcast 497 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: things and I bring up some weird subject, he gets 498 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: super excited and it's like I'm gonna go into the 499 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: stacks and see if i have anything on that. I'm like, 500 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: I didn't ask you to do that. Just remember that's 501 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: the person that is drawn to the library sciences. My 502 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: other big one is I love to find if it's 503 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: all possible, uh, contemporary newspaper. Yeah, yeah, that that, and 504 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: there are a number of services that will help you 505 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: with those, like subscription services. I don't want to name 506 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: them my name, just because I don't endorse any particular one. 507 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: The different ones off for different benefits. So but if 508 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: you find one you like, like, that's a gold mine. Yeah. 509 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: And a lot of times your local library will have 510 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: an archive of the newspaper, like your local newspaper, and 511 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: then often some other big name ones like the New 512 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: York Times in the Boston Globe. Uh, some of like 513 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: the biggest, most long standing newspapers for US people. So 514 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: those are some research tips. I hope they're helpful. Yeah. 515 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: I think the other thing to always be careful about 516 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: is not looking for research that backs up what you 517 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: already think, but actually reading the research. It's easy to do, 518 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: so easy to do, but yeah, you have to kind 519 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: of keep your mind as objective as possible. That's how 520 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: we keep winding up with episodes that we thought were 521 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: going to be a ralicky good time and they were 522 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: not and turned dark and stormy. Yes, so I have 523 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: a couple of emails that are actually kind of related 524 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: to this last piece of Impossible episode, and they are 525 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: both pretty short, so I'm just gonna read them both. 526 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: The first one is from Catherine, and Katherine says, Hi, 527 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy, a kind of the only made on 528 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: your recent USS Cyclops episode about a book she had 529 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: consulted for source material reminded me of a question I've 530 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: been wanting to ask you all for a while, and 531 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 1: looking through the blog entries and sources for program content. 532 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: As an aside, coming from a research profession, I cannot 533 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,719 Speaker 1: tell you how much I appreciate that you publicly document 534 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: all of your source material on the blog. I noticed 535 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: that in your research you often make an effort to 536 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: read inside at least one book on the subject in question. 537 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: Given all the books you've consulted during your time working 538 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: on the podcast, I was wondering if you had any 539 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: favorites that you can suggest to some of your BiblioFile 540 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: listeners such as myself. Thanks again for all you do 541 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: to make the podcast of Delight, Sincerely, Catherine Um And 542 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: then she mentions having read one of the books that 543 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: we read for one of the episodes, which was pretty cool, 544 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: And then the other one is for Monica, and Monica says, hello, ladies. 545 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: I recently discovered your podcast about two weeks ago, and 546 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: I am obsessed. I am probably about halfway through the 547 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: archived episodes, and I'm already dreading the day when I 548 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: can no longer binge listen to new episodes. I was 549 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: a classic studies minor in college, but have a great 550 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: passion for history, especially European. I'm also absolutely obsessed with 551 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: British history. I was curious to know if anyone in 552 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: your office has a book recommendation or authors that refer 553 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: to the Dark Ages in Europe anywhere in Europe, maybe 554 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: Holy Roman Empire, or perhaps a book of maps that 555 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: shows Europe from eleventh centuries to twenty one century. I'm 556 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: always losing myself in the geography of the time, so 557 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: to Monica, I'm opening that question up to listeners. If 558 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: listeners have recommendation for this books and nothing immediately came 559 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: to my mind, um so if you have book suggestions 560 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: for Monica sent us a note history podcast at how 561 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: stuffworks dot com and for Catherine's note. We did write 562 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: Catherine back with some things that immediately came to mind, 563 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: but I wanted to read her note for two reasons. 564 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: One thank you Katherine and to um. A lot of 565 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: folks don't realize that we have show notes for every 566 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: episode that we do in our blog, and the show 567 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: list out all of the sources, and those sources include 568 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 1: basically everything that we read. So going all the way 569 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: back through the Tracy and Holly era, if there are 570 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast that you listen to and are 571 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: interested in and you want to know more, you can 572 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: find out where you can read more by looking in 573 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: all of those uh and the show notes post for 574 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: that particular episode. Um. The the thing that gets tricky 575 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: is at this point you and I have each researched 576 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: an episode every week for many months, and so it 577 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: takes like I am sure that I forgot many many 578 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: great great books when I emailed Catherine back, I just 579 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,959 Speaker 1: like the two that sparked into my brain immediately were 580 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: the ones that I said, but me too, Yeah, my 581 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: brain just at this point when we get to the 582 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: end of recording, sometimes I have forgotten literally the subject 583 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: that we talked about by the time we're in uh 584 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 1: the studio next well, and I think to um, part 585 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: of it for me is like, UM, very topic specific. 586 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: You know, like I can tell you what some of 587 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: my favorite Disney history books are, or my favorite Queen 588 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Victoria history books are, right, but those might not be 589 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: the kind of history books that you want to read. 590 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: So if we just pick a few off the top 591 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: of our heads, like I would probably never pick one 592 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: that's just a vast general history book, which isn't to 593 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: say that those aren't great, but those wouldn't probably be 594 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: the ones that nestle in my heart as favorites. Yeah, 595 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: And the books that I recommended to Catherine, we're both 596 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: ones where they were memoirs where the person speaking had 597 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,959 Speaker 1: such a lovely candor, yeah, that it sounded like I 598 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: was like sitting down with that person and hearing him 599 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: tell me a story. They were Frankie Manning and Luis Alvarez. 600 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: There was those two memoirs that I recommended just because 601 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: those both had just a casual, lovely conversational tone which 602 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: may float your boat and may not anyway. Yeah, that's 603 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: that's one of those ones. It's a little bit tricky, 604 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: I know, for me, because everybody's taste is different, particularly 605 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: on the um when you're reading on the page. The 606 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: things that resonate with one person or not, I'm gonna 607 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: be the same things that resonate with someone else. Yes. 608 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: So if you know of great, awesome resources for the 609 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: things that Monica asked about regarding the Dark Ages in Europe, 610 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: please write to us. Or if you want to recommend 611 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: other books, please write to us. If you UH have 612 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,959 Speaker 1: awesome questions that you want to ask, you can please 613 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: write to us. We're History podcast at how stupwork dot com. 614 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook at facebook dot com slash miss 615 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: in history and on Twitter at miss in history. Are 616 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: tumbler is miss in history dot tomber dot com, and 617 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: we're also on Pinterest at pentriest dot com slash missed 618 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: in History. We have a spreadshirt store at miss in 619 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: history dot spreadshirt dot com. You might be tired of 620 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: me saying miss in history, but I'm gonna say it 621 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: one more time, which is that our new instagram is 622 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: at missed in history. If you would like to learn 623 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: a little bit, we'll were about what we talked about today, 624 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: just it's tiny bit more. You can come to our website, 625 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: but the words Elizabeth Bathory in the UH the search bar, 626 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: and you will find the article that actually sparked for 627 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: the original very shorts A minute was at the Bathory episode. 628 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: You can also come to miss the Mystery dot com 629 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: and you will find show notes that list all of 630 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: our sources, including lots and lots and lots of books 631 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,280 Speaker 1: that you might love, uh, an archive of every single episode, 632 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: lots of other cool stuff we do. All that, and 633 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: a whole lot more. How stuff works dot com or 634 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 1: missed in hisstory dot com for more on this thousands 635 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com