1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name is 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,959 Speaker 1: are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. An update episode, We're 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: going topical. You are We're working with live fire. Uh 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: this peek behind the current. We typically record where endeavored 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: to record a few weeks in advance of publication date, 13 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: mainly because stories can change pretty rapidly in these modern 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: times of ours, and this episode as a result of that. 15 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: This episode may include information that becomes outdated or needs 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: an update. But for right now, we're going to We're 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: gonna give you the straight pop, as they probably say 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: somewhere in Minnesota on and unfolding events. Does anybody else 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: remember when wiki leaks was a daily headline. Didn't matter 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: where you turned, everything was Wiki leaks, right yeah, and 21 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: especially it had a bit of a resurgence there for 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: a while when the presidential election was happening in when 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: that that name started being bandied about again. But it 24 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: goes way back to ten roughly when it was very 25 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: very popular, right right, And it was around even before then. 26 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: It was founded in Iceland in two thousand six. And 27 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: despite the fact that you don't we hear about it 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: as much as you did, it's still soldiering along. Today's 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: story is not about wiki leaks. However, you want to 30 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: learn about wiki leaks, you can go look at their 31 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: own website which is still up. Uh, and we do 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 1: have an old series of videos on it, that's right, 33 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: which gets the gist of what it is, you know, 34 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: but not not the recent greatest hits. Instead, today we 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: are exploring the recent misadventures of wiki leaks founder, the 36 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: infamous and somewhat targary in looking Julian Assange. Oh, he 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: is a little target. I don't want to body shame. 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: I think I think targarians look really cool, but he 39 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: looks like one. It's more like the kind of like 40 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: platinum blonde, blue eyed kind of vibe. Right, A little 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: bit of it. It's changed, it's changed significantly. Yeah, being 42 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: grounded for years will do that. But Julian Assange, this 43 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: name is familiar to us. If you're listening to this show, 44 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: you have it is almost certainly not the first time 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: you've heard this name. But let's learn a little bit 46 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: about the guy behind the moniker. Who is Julie Nossange. Well, 47 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: for that, we have to go all the way back 48 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy one to a place called Townsville, Australia. 49 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: Isn't that where Chemical X was created and then created 50 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: the power Puff Girls? Oh my goodness, the mayor of 51 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: Townsville doesn't bring any bells because of my lack of 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: power Puff information, I will say, yes, okay, and I 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: appreciate you taking my word for it, but this is 54 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: a different Townsville. Well, he's carrying in Townsville. In nineteen 55 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: seventy one, Julian Assange was birthed as a baby. He 56 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: came into this world and he didn't have any documents 57 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: with him, but he was given his first documents very 58 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: soon after that, proving that he was in fact born. 59 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: Uh and uh. This is a gentleman who grew up. 60 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: He really enjoyed computers. He was good at them. He 61 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: ended up hacking into the databases of several organizations that 62 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: we would consider high profile sure corporations, countries, governments. In 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, he said, you know, I should 64 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: take this to a global scale and international skill. I 65 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: should take what I'm doing by myself and open it 66 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: to the world. So he began work on what we 67 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: call wiki leaks today, and surprisingly he pulled it off. 68 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: He enjoyed a brief and shining moment in the spotlight. 69 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: Was he a hero speaking truth to power, a coward 70 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: and dangering lives across the planet, a straight up megalomaniac. 71 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: He was portrayed as all of these and more in 72 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: the media, and he earned the coveted Time Magazines Person 73 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: of the Year title in twenty Also, let's not forget 74 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: that person of the Year. It isn't necessarily an accolade. 75 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: It's not a compliment. It just means you shook some 76 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: stuff up for better or worse. Well, yeah, and and 77 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: that's exactly what he was doing. He you know that 78 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: speaking truth to power. I don't know if I necessarily 79 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: believe that, but I think all of us had moments 80 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: where the actions of Julian Assange were so striking. Um 81 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: of you know, hacking into the places that were hacked 82 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: or you know, leaking information that was given to the 83 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: that really spoke to bad things that were happening within 84 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: big organizations. And you know, I think that's why Time 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: did just what we're talking about. That's why Time did it, 86 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: because it was so earth shaking for sure, I mean 87 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: genuinely shook the foundations. Yeah, and he was loved and feared. 88 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: I think it is the right way to put it right, right, 89 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: he was. Indeed. The thing is that Wiki Leaks and 90 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: Assange were dogged by criticism, controversy, and conspiracy theories pretty 91 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: much since their inception. People would write to us all 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: these years ago and say, well, who do you think 93 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: is really in charge of wiki leaks in Russia? Is 94 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: it the c i A, Is it you know, MASSAD 95 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: or some other organization? And how impartial are they? Not 96 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: very as we would come to find. But two thousand 97 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,119 Speaker 1: ten rose and fell like some Tigeria Nichorus. I guess 98 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,239 Speaker 1: he flew too close to the sun of the mass 99 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: media and classified information from governments and businesses. Is the 100 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: year everything started to go wrong for Julian Assange. He 101 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: ended up seeking asylum in Ecuador, technically in Ecuador. Uh, 102 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: here's how it went down. We've got a timeline. I 103 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: guess we could call it how to dodge the law 104 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: in Ecuador with an asterisk. Yeah. I don't think he's 105 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: actually been to the country of Ecuador. Well, it did, technically, 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: it's been to the territory, sort of like being at 107 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: the airport in Paris or something like that. Have you 108 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: really been to Paris? You know? Well, well, okay, So 109 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: here's what I've what I believe is that everything surrounding 110 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: this situation is about motivation. Uh, motivation behind actions by 111 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: the US government, motivations of actions behind Julian Assange or whatever. 112 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, yes, and also of Chelsea Manning government, exactly 113 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: all of them together. Like it's about the intentions and 114 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: why they're doing what they're doing. Right. So, let's so 115 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: in a April of two thousand ten, that is when 116 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning, uh, well, by this time, Chelsea Manning has 117 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: given video and information about an air strike that occurred 118 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, two wiki leaks, and in this 119 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: air strike there were more than ten Iraqis like civilians 120 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: and two journalists that were killed in these air strikes. 121 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: You I cannot remember the name of War, the War Tapes, 122 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: or something to this effect. You can find it through 123 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: wiki leaks. It was really brutal and there was a 124 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: ton of um press about this when it came out. 125 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: It was very high profile in that regard. Then in May, 126 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning, the person who leaked this stuff too Wiki leaks, 127 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: who then leaked it was arrested for doing that, for 128 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: for leaking it to wikiliks. And in August of that year, 129 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: trouble was brewing across the Atlantic. Prosecutors from Sweden ordered 130 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: the arrest of Julian Assange on suspected charges of sexual assault, 131 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: rape and molestation. Yes, and this is where the intentions 132 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: come into play, because you're seeing information on both are 133 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: from both sides here that in particularly from Wikiliks and 134 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: Julian Osange. They like this was an attempt to extradite 135 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: Julian Assange to the United States, right, get him into 136 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: get him back to a place or to a place 137 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: that would extradite him to the United States. Right, and 138 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: prosecutors in Sweden issue an international warrant for his arrest. December, 139 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: he gets arrested by the British police and the court says, 140 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: you know what, we're going to grant him bail and 141 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: he fights this charge. He is trying to overturn his 142 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: extradition to Sweden. It doesn't work. It's this missed in 143 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: November of twenty eleven and in twelve August of twenty twelve, 144 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: so he's got some months on the lamb. Here August, 145 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: he is officially granted asylum at the Ecuadorian Embassy in London. 146 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: That's why we're making a big to do about calling 147 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: it technically Ecuador, because the land of the embassy is 148 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: technically sovereign soil. But it's a building. It's a building. 149 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: It's sort of like when the Communion way for just 150 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: transubstantiated into like the body of Christ or whatever. It's 151 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: like one of those guys is magical thinking, magical realism. 152 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of international affairs hinge on magical realism. 153 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: You know. Uh, like passports, that's a big thing. There's 154 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: one person who doesn't have to have a passport. It's 155 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: the Queen of the UK because the passport issued in 156 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: her name. Well, yeah, there you go, and then she's 157 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: got the tier or the crown or whatever the thing is. 158 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: It's a very big deal in over there. Um. So, 159 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: so in November of that year, this highly publicized event 160 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: occurs where Julian Assange uh comes like he's at the 161 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: embassy and he goes out on this balcony and he 162 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: makes a speech there about what he's doing, why he's 163 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: doing it, what the US government wants to do. Um 164 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: makes all of these things public and puts it in 165 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: his own voice and has some stunning uh, some stunning 166 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: hot takes on Crocodile dundee, both the first one and 167 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: the sequel. There you go, that's what they don't want 168 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: you to know. Highly important stuff. But it was his 169 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: for it was the first time anyone had got or 170 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: at least the public had seen him since he was 171 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: seeking asylum two months earlier, back in back in August. 172 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: And again like just remember that timeline two thousand ten 173 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: is when it's that arrest warrant is first issued. Two 174 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: years later, he gets to the bail and then ends 175 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: up in the embassy. Yeah, and he has been there, right, 176 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: this is becoming his home, the Stockholm District Court in 177 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: while he's still at the embassy. Remember, life's going on 178 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: for everyone else doing some skyping. Yeah, he's stuck in 179 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: this building. Uh, they decided that he should remain detained 180 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: after he requested that they review his detention order, and 181 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 1: then in August he promised he would leave the embassy soon. 182 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: Soon is a relative term, right, yes, it really really is. Uh, 183 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: then what happens in well, in the Ecuadorian government cuts 184 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: off his internet access. I had to have been a 185 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: death blow for a guy like that build his whole 186 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: life reputation online. He's got nothing, he's cut off. But yeah, 187 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: well it's because Wiki League's published her emails. Remember her emails? Yeah, yeah, 188 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: an absolute motherload of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign emails. The 189 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: government said is it's trying to make sure he can't 190 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: interfere in the affairs of other countries. Fair, right, I 191 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: think it's fair. We're Ecuador, we're doing you a solid, 192 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: and world superpowers are really coming down hard on us. 193 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: Can you stop making things worse so you're making us 194 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 1: look really bad? Julie as it's like if you're ever, 195 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: if you know, I don't know how wild everyone's lives are, 196 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: but it's like if you are, you know, in your 197 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: college days and you're getting a dive bar fight, and 198 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,599 Speaker 1: then it's all because one of your friends is a 199 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: run in their mouths, and you are somehow single handedly uh, 200 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: defending yourself from like and him from like eight people 201 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: way bigger than you, and the guys in the back going. Yeah, 202 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: kick kick his ass, tell his tell his his mom 203 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: is also ugly, and you're like, dude, either help me 204 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: out or shut up, and he's not doing either of 205 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: those things. So it's without choosing a side, and without 206 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: us actually being in the room, we can say at 207 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: this on the surface seems like poor house guest behavior. Yeah. 208 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: It's also like if a guy staying on your couch 209 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: just starts peeing on everything. Yes, yes, I mean, and 210 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: we'll see it again because it's it. He's just not 211 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: that great of a tenant, because if anything, he gets 212 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: more erratic and peeing on everything isn't necessarily that far 213 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: off the markt right exactly. In uh November of UH 214 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: he is questioned again within the embassy is not leaving 215 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: the embassy. He has questioned over those sexual assault charges 216 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: in Sweden, and in April of Attorney General Jeff Sessions 217 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: at the time, who proceeded Attorney General Barr, says that 218 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: arresting Assange is a top priority for the US. We 219 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: want this guy under the jail. Is he going to 220 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: get get mode? I don't know. And it's unfortunate that 221 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: we live in a world where that can be a verb. 222 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to get get mode. No one wants to 223 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: get get mode. But then only a month later, only 224 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: a month later, Sweden comes out and they're saying we're 225 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: dropping all charges against Julian A songe. Uh, that's done. 226 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: We're not gonna do this whole extradition thing that he's 227 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: worried about. Have no fear. We're dropping those charges um. 228 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: And Julian Song says, well, that's great, but I'm gonna 229 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: stay here just in case, right right, because although Swedeness 230 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: dropped the charges, uh, the UK still has an arrest 231 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: out for him. And he's like, all right, well, we 232 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: got Sweden off the list. Let's let me see if 233 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: I can work something out with the United Kingdom. This 234 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: is unsuccessful. February he loses his bid to get them 235 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: to drop uh, drop their arrests and charges. And then 236 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: in March. Oh, it's like history is repeating itself. Right, 237 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: I could work cuts off his communication entirely, say look, 238 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: you just cannot send messages at all. We tried to 239 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: stop you with the internet stuff. No no more, no 240 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: snail mail, no nothing, because you are again, dude, you 241 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: are making the bar fight worse. You are peeing on 242 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: our geopolitical couch. Stop. We're gonna need you to surrender 243 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: your pager as well, because not even that's too much. Well, yeah, 244 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: because he said, uh, he was sending again sending messages 245 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: they would interfere with other countries goings on. That's what 246 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: they call in the South, poking the bear. Yeah, exactly, 247 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: need to leave that bear alone, especially when you're in 248 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: our house, and because the bear is gonna come for us. 249 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: The bears do not discriminate, you know. And October Assange 250 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: decides to sue Ecuador because he doesn't like how they've 251 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 1: changed the nature of his asylum. They had they had 252 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: recently asked him to start, you know, paying rent, kicking 253 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: in rent and bills, and to take better care of 254 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: his cat. That is not made up. Apparently he was 255 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: letting the cat run wild. Is I guess he was 256 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: above doing kitty litter. I don't know. They let him 257 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: have a cat. They let him have a cat. What 258 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: did he have on these these poor SAPs? By the way, 259 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean what, maybe we're gonna get there, but why 260 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: why did they why did they put up with all 261 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: of this? Well, I mean they thought they were defending journalism, 262 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: that's the stated claim. Yeah, is it really worth the 263 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: Ecuador at this point? Good lord, that's the question Ecuador 264 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: is asking. What did they decide to do? Will tell 265 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: you after a word from our sponsor, we're back. We're 266 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: in legal limbo. Ecuador has a problem on their hands, 267 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: and the rest of the world is champing at the 268 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: bit to get that problem off of their hands. And 269 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: this situation, as strange as it might appear, is unfortunately 270 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: not unique. We have to remember that Edwards Snowdon, when 271 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: last we checked, still side somewhere in Russia and will 272 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: probably not return to the US within his lifetime. And 273 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: there is a real legal and otherwise threat to anyone 274 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: who leaks, especially highly classified documents from a you know, 275 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: let's say a giant military, one of the biggest, oh wait, 276 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: the biggest, most powerful military in the world. It's uh 277 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: that you put yourself in danger and escaping trying to 278 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: get somewhere else where you're away from the reach of 279 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: that military and or other parties involved. It's what's going 280 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: to happen. You know, we should probably try to interview 281 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: Snowdon and Assange. What do you guys think do you 282 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: think they would they wouldn't talk to us. Well, I 283 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: know Snowdon did uh interview recently in April. He did 284 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: an interview on Vice, so we can talk to him. 285 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: I've seen that one. Yeah, yeah, let's ull. Hey, hey, 286 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: Paul put out some feelers. Okay, wow, cold blooded my friend. 287 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: It just Paul's got a lot to do, so he's 288 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: doing it right now. I see him. He's he's texting, 289 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: she's he's got But now it's just going straight to Ecuador. 290 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, they're in this legal limbo and we have 291 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: to start seriously asking ourselves how long will this house 292 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: of cards remain remains stable? Was Julian Assange set to 293 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: live out the rest of his life within the bounds 294 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: of the Ecuadorian embassy? And remember there were police waiting 295 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: for years just for him to cross the threshold. It 296 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: was serious. Despite all these overtures and threats and demands 297 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: from the UK, the U, S, and Sweden, it seemed 298 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: that the countries who wanted him on trial or arrested 299 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: or dead still respected going back to that magical thinking point. 300 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: International norms too much to storm the embassy and physically 301 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: remove Asange because it would be an act of war. 302 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: It would be a bad look. So his life and 303 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: freedom were in Ecuador's hands and this April that support disappeared. 304 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. On December sixen uh Barry Pollock, 305 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: who is an attorney for Mr Sane, he said that 306 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: his client will not be accepting a deal that was 307 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: at least the talks were happening right then between the 308 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: UK and Ecuador to allow Juliana Sane to be released 309 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: from the embassy and go about his business. Uh It 310 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: talks broke down. The agreement was rejected over fears that 311 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: it could be used as some kind of pretext. At 312 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: least these are fears on the behalf of Mr Sane 313 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: and his attorney that the agreement itself would be just 314 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: a pretext, basically a way to extradite him back to 315 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: the United States because again he's in the middle. He's 316 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: in the middle of London. He's in London, and yeah, 317 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: an Ecuador in the UK that their deal hinged on 318 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: uh one solid agreement. Ecuador said, well, whatever he's done, 319 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: right or wrong, be it as it, we do not 320 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: support the death penalty, so we cannot agree to put 321 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: him in your hands unless you can promise us that 322 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: no matter what happens, he doesn't die, which it was 323 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 1: clearly not enough. That is like a gentleman's agreement though, 324 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 1: like I mean, what what they demand some kind of 325 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: written like affidavit that I mean, once you hand him over. 326 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 1: It is kind of like all bets are offering. Possession 327 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: is nine tenths of the law habeas corpus and so on. 328 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: The problem is that it was it was pretty much 329 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: a handshake agreement. They may have had. I'm sure they 330 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: had documentation of it, but they no one made a 331 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: law that's just for this one guy and his team. 332 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: One of one of his lawyers said that the suggestion 333 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: that as long as the death penalty is off the table, 334 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: Mr Sane need not fear persecution is obviously wrong because, 335 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: as we know, their fates worse than death and arguably 336 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: being imprisoned for the rest of your life, whether in 337 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: a legitimate prison or a more dodgy place like Guantanamo Bay. Uh, 338 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: that's not a life a lot of people want to live. No, 339 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: not at all. So then let's go to this year 340 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: February twenty nineteen, Australia comes out and they say, hey, guys, 341 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: I want to just want everyone to know here, Julia 342 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: Sane in fact has a valid passport. It's working. He 343 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: could use that passport to return to Townsville, good old 344 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: power Puff Townsville, Australia. Um, he could go there right 345 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: now if we wanted to send him that way. In 346 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the or 347 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: de Fat fat that's a street name. Uh. They they 348 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: went ahead and said, yes, we're confirming here that a 349 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: passport has been approved for for Mr Songe by the government. 350 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: And this passport was filed filed four by Mr san 351 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: So they said, whatever is happening if he makes it here, 352 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: we're just saying he could. We're just say we could 353 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: let him in. So he does have a passport. And 354 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: again passports are requisite for people who were the highest 355 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: and the lowest technically on paper. Everyone has to have 356 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: a passport and go through customs. And I still find 357 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: it's so incredible how like a document can have such power, 358 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like he's got a passport, 359 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 1: he's good to go. Yeah, yeah, I still get I 360 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: don't know what about you guys, but I still get 361 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: creeped out when I travel internationally because customs can vary widely. 362 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: The first time I always in England, Um, I had 363 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,440 Speaker 1: to stop at customs because it wasn't enough that I said, yeah, 364 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: I have a hotel and going to They were like, 365 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: all right, we need the address and we need to 366 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: confirm that that's where you're going to be. The guy 367 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: was cool about it. He even called me squire, which 368 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: was just profoundly endearing. And passports are essentially a way 369 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: to restrict several things. They are a way to restrict 370 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: uh immigration of people that a country finds und desirable, 371 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: and that could be anything from intelligence agencies to poor people. Right. 372 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: They also function is a way for a country to 373 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: protect its sovereignty at its borders. Um. And they also 374 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: function as symbolic statements for how they feel about other countries. 375 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's actually it's surprisingly affordable 376 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: to buy a passport from a like somewhat sketchy country 377 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: and still travel with it. Yes, have you done that? Well, 378 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: that's certainly like the whole go bag situation. Right, Like 379 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: if you're trying to escape or you're on the lamb 380 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: and you get some shady person who provides the service 381 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: to help you out. They either forge a passport. I 382 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: think more often than not they will buy a passport 383 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: from one of these countries where it's a little more 384 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: easy to come by, Is that right, man, Yeah, yeah, 385 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 1: you can. You can buy uh second passport from various places. 386 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: The thing is you have to you have to think 387 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: about how much how much it will cost you versus 388 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: how effective the passport will be, how you know how 389 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: widely accepted it is. For instance, you can get a 390 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: very expensive passport or minimum investment kind of loophole uh 391 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: In in Turkey, for instance, it's it's million dollars give 392 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: us you invest a million dollars in a country, Boom 393 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: your Turkish congratulations, help yourself to some cuisine and of 394 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: our delights, and some of those prices go down to 395 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars or even lower. But Julian Osange 396 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: had his own legitimate Australian passport, non Ecuadorian citizen, and 397 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: his Australian passport is no guarantee that he would automatically 398 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: get accepted because any transit country he went to could 399 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: stop him at any point and uh hand him over. 400 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: So Wiki Leaks got word of ill tidings in April 401 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: of nineteen, and they tweeted on the fifth that a 402 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: level source within the Ecuadorian state had told them Assange 403 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: would be expelled from the embassy within days or hours. Wow. Yeah, 404 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: that changes things a little bit. It's not great news 405 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: to hear, you know, especially if he's reading his tweets. No, 406 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: his his communications are cut off. I think it's been 407 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: reinstanted at that point. I'm not sure. I was hoping 408 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: that I could imagine him in a carrier pigeon like 409 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: getting along and it just living in the embassy with 410 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: his cat. That would be a fun relationship. Yeah, that 411 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: would be are you are you pitching a show now? Yeah, 412 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: that would be a fun relationship. Who can we get 413 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: to Gilbert Godfrey played the cat or is he more 414 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: of the pigeon? Yeah, he's the bird. He's good. Yeah. 415 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: It's weird because shortly thereafter, another Ecuadorian official came forward 416 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: and said there was no decision made to remove him 417 00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: from the London building, and then on April eleven, they 418 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: did just that. Yep, that is correct. On the eleventh 419 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: of April of this year, twenty nineteen, Mr Assange gets 420 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: arrested at London's Ecuadorian embassy by Metropolitan Police officers for quote, 421 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: failing to surrender to the court. Um, can we get 422 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: a quick clip of this pretty monumental encounter. It'll be brief. 423 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: There you going, and you should be able to hear 424 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: him saying resist and things along that line. Because we 425 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: are an audio podcast, we we would like to draw 426 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: your attention to Osange's appearance as as he got pulled out, 427 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: as we said at the top of the show, the 428 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: years in the embassy and not been kind to him. 429 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: He looks in general kind of disheveled, feel emaciated, too long, 430 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: kind of weird, stringy hair, ratty beard. Yeah, and he 431 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: can't blame him because he's living under tremendous stress, right, 432 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: And that's one thing that was kind of irritated. Get 433 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: the comedy of it, but so many people spend time 434 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: just busting on the guy's appearance and roasting him when 435 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: it's like, hey, there's also a precedent should we arrest journalists? 436 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: Is he a journalist or is he just like a 437 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: spy master? You know? And people were like, ha ha, yeah, 438 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: but look a look at his beard though, what's up 439 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: with his cat? I don't know why is he skateboarding 440 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: in the halls? That was a thing. Yes, he was 441 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: a bad boy. Uh So what were these international violations? 442 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: Were they violations of existing laws that he was continuing 443 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: to uh engage in? Or were they violations of again 444 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: kind of this gentleman's agreement with the Ecuadorian embassy. We 445 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: know that Wiki Leaks pulled a no you move and 446 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: they said, actually Ecuador's acting illegally because they terminated his 447 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: asylum in violation of international law. Burned right, Okay, you 448 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: guys really bad got into that one. Uh So, the 449 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: entire time this is happening, there is a looming figure 450 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: on the horizon, a figure just over so tall that 451 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 1: you can see them over the Atlantic Ocean. Silhouette Godzilla 452 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: with a top hat. It's kind of a Mr Pan. 453 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: It's Uncle Sam, who who we go toe to toe 454 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: with Godzilla and Mr Peanut. You know, although I feel 455 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: like Uncle Sam and Mr Peanut would get along, I 456 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: think they would get along. Yeah, we think that. I 457 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: think so old Uncle Sam is. He's a straddling too 458 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: giant US aircraft carriers one ft on each, and he's 459 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: just surfing across the ocean towards a song. That America 460 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: song from the South Park Guys film is playing America, 461 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: the one, you know, the one, So the US is there. 462 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: They want a piece. They say, now it's the time 463 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: to act. So they file a charge against Julian O. 464 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: Sane and they say this guy, we charge him with 465 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: computer hacking hours after he's arrested in London. Uh, following 466 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: first they asked, They're like, oh, hey, al right, guys, 467 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: chop chop, uh tut tally hoo, whatever you say, get 468 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: this guy to us. And then also we're charging him 469 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: with computer hacking. And then they they drilled down into 470 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: it so specifically they're charging him for agreeing to break 471 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: a password to a classified government computer. I love the 472 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: full name of the charge. It's it's the most dry, 473 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: toast kind of like charge you can have you ever 474 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: heard of. It's conspiracy to make computer intrusion for agreeing 475 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: to break a password to a classified US government computer. 476 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: Wolf poetry sounds dangerous. So if he gets convicted of this, 477 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: then he would serve five years in prison, assuming that 478 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: he was not disappeared, which is a possibility. And they 479 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: say that the password was sought by Chelsea Manning. And 480 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning is a former Army intelligence officer, I'm sure 481 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: we're all familiar with her, who provided a sage with 482 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: a trove of these documents that Wiki Leaks published in. 483 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: According to the indictment, the one with the very sexy 484 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: charge name, uh, this constitutes one of the largest compromises 485 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: of classified information in the history of the United States. Embarrassing, 486 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: that's what Uncle Sam said he did. He did, he did, 487 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: say how embarrassing, and then he shot gun to bud 488 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: light and then climbed back on a Clydesdale and wrote 489 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: off into the sunsets and then that can you do 490 00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: the first part of that song to get America? So 491 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: I love that. I don't know why I also taking 492 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: with that, but yes, So they say that he was 493 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: breaking the morays of journalism. He was not being a 494 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: traditional journalist when he agreed to help Manning crack the 495 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: password that let her access this stuff. But mores are 496 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: not enforceable by law, my friend, are they just sort 497 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: of bad form? Who makes the law? Well? Yeah, right, 498 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: But they said he broke the laws it's if you're 499 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: a Glenn Greenwald or another journalist, it's okay to verify 500 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: and put out stuff that people have given you, but 501 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: it's not okay for you to help them steal it. There. 502 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: That's that's when you're crossing the line and doing something 503 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: completely different than journalism. That that more is a conspiracy 504 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: or aiding and abetting a felony. Right, I think you're right, Yeah, 505 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: it is technically conspiracy, isn't it. So here we are, 506 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: we're twenty nine, were present day, were very were very 507 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: close to president right now, right now, Okay, we're in 508 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: the moment, guys, I'm here. What the heck is gonna happen? 509 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: He's re arrested. What happens next? We'll find out after 510 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: a quick word from our sponsor. Not guilty, y'all got 511 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: to feel me. A Sannge pleads not guilty at the 512 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: Westminster Magistrate's Court. But he's convicted of failing to surrender 513 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: to police on June twenty nine, two thousand twelve, when 514 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: they originally came after him. And then he will he 515 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: will be sentenced. Uh. He was sentenced in Crown Court, 516 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: where more serious crimes are heard, and then he'll also 517 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: face extradition. Hearings one on my second one on June twelve. 518 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: His lawyers are livid. They're unhappy with this. They say 519 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: this is a sign of terrible global trend. Yeah. Um. 520 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: A Sane's attorney, Jennifer Robinson, who's based in London, was 521 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: quoted in saying that the arrest quote sets a dangerous 522 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: precedent for all media organizations and journalists. She goes on, 523 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: since we've warned that Julian Assange would face extradition to 524 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: the US for his publishing activities with Wiki leaks. Unfortunately 525 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: today we've been proven right. And then she added that 526 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: after having just spoken to a Sange Um that his 527 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: message to the world was I told you so wow, 528 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: Oh the most endearing of messages. So endearing. It's okay, 529 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: It's okay because really, honestly, they did kind of or 530 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: they kind of knew this, and Julian Osange was warning 531 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: for a long period of time, like they're coming for me. 532 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: This is happening. Here's why. Let me give you a list, 533 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: this is what's going to happen. But you know it 534 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: did take what almost seven years? Yeah, and normally I 535 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: think we can all agree that I told you so 536 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: is just a super unhelpful thing to say in any 537 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: personal situation. But we should give him a pass on 538 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: this one because he did exactly what you're describing, Matt. 539 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: He did tell us so, he said so. So It's 540 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: true Wiki Leaks knew this was coming, and probably knew 541 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: for a long long time. The group had repeatedly claimed 542 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: that the Department of Justice in the US was building 543 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: a criminal case centered on the leaking of those emails 544 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: hacked apparently by the Russians in the twenty sixteen campaign. 545 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: And in February of this year, President Donald Trump's former 546 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: lawyer Michael Cohen, who was recently in the press for 547 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: I think recently just just agreed to start his jail 548 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 1: sentence in New York. He told a congressional hearing that 549 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: former Trump campaign advisor Roger Stone, who is great television 550 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: by the way, was in contact with the songs before 551 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: Wiki Leaks released all those emails from the d n 552 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: C in the in the Clinton campaign. Roger Stone just 553 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: for a second true story, he has a tattoo of 554 00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: Nixon on his back. He's a apparently a wild swinger. Yeah, 555 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: very eccentric character. Say when he plays baseball. He's very erratic. 556 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: Is that what you mean? If it's anything like his 557 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: love life? Sure? So here for more on that watch 558 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: get me, Roger Stone. I don't know if it's still 559 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: on Netflix, but it certainly was a little while ago. 560 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: I think I think, uh, Rob over it. Behind the 561 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Bastards did an episode on him too. You call him Rob, 562 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: I mean Rob. Sure, you guys are tig like that. 563 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Okay, we all call him Mr Evans, Yeah right, 564 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: uh yeah, But Behind Bastard's great show. Check it out. 565 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: We'll probably have him on our show in a little 566 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: while for his newer podcast. It could happen here anyway, 567 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: Roger Stone. Uh, of course, someone's personal life shouldn't be 568 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: a basis on which to judge their professional conduct. But 569 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: that back tad is is weird. Did you look it up? 570 00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: How was about to say, hello, weird? But I got 571 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: ding for saying that. But you know, I knew about it. 572 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: It's just I thought it was a joke, like I 573 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: thought someone in photoshop that, And then I came to 574 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: I looked a little deeper into it, like, no, he 575 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: totally has Nixon's face tattooed on his back. Sweet. Yeah, 576 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: isn't that weird? I I did. I had one of 577 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: those I call him the onion double take where you 578 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: read you read something, you're like, no way, let me 579 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: check that U r L. Or let me make sure 580 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: this is not the onion. Well it was. The Nixon 581 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: Presidential Library had this thing where if you got a tattoo, 582 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 1: especially lower back tattoo, you could get into the library 583 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: for free for the rest of your life. So I 584 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: think he went for it. Okay, so we had a 585 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: reason to do it. Uh So. Atlanta is home to 586 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: a festival called Shaking Knees and longtime listeners you may 587 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: remember that we were. We were excited to go when 588 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: we we kind of made a thing out of it 589 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: a few years back. Was that two years ago? Yeah, 590 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: it was a good bill just to just wrapped up 591 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: yesterday for this year. And they also wrapped up their 592 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: practice allowing you to get into the concert, to get 593 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: into the festival for free for the rest of your 594 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: life if you got a tattoo. Yeah, and I do 595 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: believe that your wife did that very thing. Yeah, My 596 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: wife and her best friend both got them. It was 597 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: the last possible moment to do it. It really was 598 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: that's pretty clutch. Yeah, I'm excited she's gonna get to 599 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: do that every year and hopefully shaking knees. May you 600 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: live forever in Atlanta or wherever we end up living 601 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: in ten years from now, shake those knees. Yeah that 602 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: sounds really weird. Uh. So here we are, and now 603 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: we're running into what we could rightly call and you'll 604 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: have to edit me here, but I can't think of 605 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: a better phrase. A cavalcado fury, because everybody is trying 606 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: to figure out what's going on. Who handles what, who 607 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: gets a sage at the end of the day, what 608 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,479 Speaker 1: what charges? In which countries take priority? Sweden is talking 609 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: about reopening the sexual salt case and so on, uh 610 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: and the sexual assault case. Uh. The way the law 611 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: is phrased and what is considered assault uh does differ 612 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: from what is how how assaults has described in the 613 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: United States. And that leads some of Assange's supporters, who 614 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: many of whom already believed this is just a pretense 615 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,959 Speaker 1: to get them to the US. UH. That that leads 616 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: his supporters to say that this is a trumped up charge. 617 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: And speaking of Donald Trump, UH, specter looms large specter 618 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: looms large. Yeah, and he he said recently, people were 619 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: of course asking the White House about this, and uh. 620 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: When he was asked by journalist about Assange, President Trump said, 621 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: I know nothing about Wiki leaks. It's not my thing. 622 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: But in October tenth, specifically, Donald Trump was quoted, and 623 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: this is right before the election, he was quoted as saying, 624 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: I love Wiki leaks, presumably talking about her emails, presumably 625 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: talking about the same organization. Maybe there were two, but 626 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: her emails, Oh boy, But I mean, anyway, it's interesting. 627 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 1: It's at least worth noting that the president of the 628 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,919 Speaker 1: United States is both loves this organization but also knows 629 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: nothing about it. It's it's interesting, It's it would appear 630 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: to be a pretty hard contradiction, right, just and again, 631 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: these are just based on public clips, assuming they're not 632 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: deep fakes or some kind of digital uh propaganda job. Yeah, exactly. 633 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: Then it appears that he has either forgotten about Wiki 634 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: leaks or did not understand what he was referring to 635 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: back in Yeah, or it was just so you know, 636 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: I'm just being I'm trying my level best to be 637 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: fair about that. I think I'm being more than fair 638 00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: about that. I don't know how you guys feel. He knows. 639 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: He yeah, it was such a renowned organization. I mean, 640 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 1: especially someone in his position learning all of I mean 641 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: he he'd had two years roughly to learn all of 642 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: the security stuff that is happening in the United States. 643 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: And you have to think that Wiki Leaks as an 644 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: organization is on briefings, maybe not all the time, but 645 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,799 Speaker 1: as regularly as they published materials. I'm assuming right it had. 646 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: And clearly the US intelligence apparatus wants to shut this 647 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: guy down, right, You don't want to set a precedent 648 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: of letting things like isn't that the problem too? And 649 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting about him and makes him so 650 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: polarizing is he doesn't really have allegiances that are consistent. 651 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: He's kind of a loose cannon, like you can't really 652 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: predict who whose side is he on exactly side. I mean, 653 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: he's on the he's on his own side, or he's 654 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: on some kind of like the side of like idealistic 655 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: justice or something. And yet some of the things he does, 656 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: like with this little little Clinton Leeks, felt very much 657 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: like there was an agenda there. So it's confusing when 658 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: you're you mentioned at the top of the show man 659 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: that it's all about intent. That's a completely true. But 660 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: the problem with a guy like this is he's who's 661 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: he beholden to. No one really knows, or if if 662 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: we they do know, they're not they're not telling. He 663 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: just seems like someone who needs to be neutralized, and 664 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: everybody wants a piece because everyone has something to lose 665 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: from him doing what he's doing. Kind of you know, yeah, 666 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: it's a side conversation, but you know, they're I have 667 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: seen some interesting writings about Hillary Clinton in particular, and 668 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: about the tendency to perhaps want to engage in wars 669 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:43,279 Speaker 1: overseas for strategic reasons um and part of you know, 670 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,120 Speaker 1: some of the some of the like deeper state behind 671 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: closed doors kind of discussions that were occurring around that time. 672 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: I can imagine why a Julian Assange, who you know, 673 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: is known for leaking all of this stuff about military engagements, 674 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: would maybe feel like he's got some kind of personal 675 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 1: thing he's got going on there. I'm just trying to 676 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: give that perspective, trying to trying to live in their 677 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: shoes for a second, just for a moment, just wear 678 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: their skin for a moment. Nothing creepy. I just like 679 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: to we hear other people's skins. So I'm sorry for people, 680 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: all of your ears. What do we say to death? Noel? 681 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: So here we are. Julia Sange is currently held at 682 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,000 Speaker 1: a high security facility called bell Marsh Prison in East London. 683 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: It's a terrible place. He argued that he should not 684 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: have to serve time, and he argued it by saying 685 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: that you know, I was essentially in prison when I 686 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: was in the embassy. That did not fly with the court. 687 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: Vice magazine wants you to know the prison he's in 688 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: is no Ritz Carlton. Bell Marsh is equipped for nine 689 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: hundred inmates at a time, but up to a hundred 690 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: and twenty five of the two person cells were often 691 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: crammed with three at least three inmates just one and 692 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: six said they could shower every day. Uh, there was 693 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: a shortage of prison kits. Prison kits being the toilet 694 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: trees and the clothing that you get, So it could 695 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: have well been a situation where he checks in or 696 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: he gets processed and they say, hey, man, where are 697 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: we at with toothbrushing and hygiene? Because you are You're 698 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 1: not going to get one of those till tuesdays. Just 699 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:36,439 Speaker 1: he's like, but wait to ware of your breathe but hope. Yeah, 700 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's not it's either way. It's not 701 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: a nice place, it's crowded, has some problems and his 702 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: as we end today's episode, his legal trials are far, far, 703 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: far from over because again his uncle Sam astride those 704 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 1: aircraft carriers eating something delicious that's terrible for you. As 705 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,400 Speaker 1: my new favorite song for this episode plays Lee in 706 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: the background, it's got and he's saying are He's saying, 707 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: get Julian Osage over here, and officials in Sweden and 708 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: in a less ostentatious manner, are also saying, yeah, well, 709 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you can stop over here on the 710 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: way because we think the guy is a monster. Yeah, 711 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: a little prosecution tour, a terrible, terrible tour. What do 712 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: you think is next for him? Though? I mean long 713 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: long term speaking tours, book deals, Ted Talks, Ted Talks. 714 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: It's a tough call. Yeah, it's a tough call. Is 715 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: he gonna be canceled? I don't know. I don't know, 716 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: because still when we were first off, you have to 717 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: take any allegation of sexual assault very seriously, right, um, 718 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,840 Speaker 1: and it's a great question. No, I don't know what 719 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: to think. I don't it's tough to predict what will happen. 720 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: You know, is he going to be extradited? I would 721 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: say probably depends on how much time, blood, sweat, and 722 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: tears the US wants to put into it, and other 723 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: larger questions to loom. Well, what do you think listening today? 724 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 1: Is he a villain? Is he a hero? Is he? 725 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: Is he a pawn in the game of global chess? 726 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: Or is her rook? Or is he a rook? Perhaps 727 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: another you know, chess piece of some kind? Sure? Bishop, Yeah, Bishop, 728 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: As the bishop said to the whatever you know the 729 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,479 Speaker 1: old joke, as an actor said to a bishop, What 730 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: is that about the shape of the bishop? Yeah? So 731 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,480 Speaker 1: the said the actress to the bishop, as a colloquial 732 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: and vulgar British exclamation offering humor by serving as a 733 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: punch line that exposes an unintended dublon tundra. So it 734 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: is about the Bishop North America. The equivalent is that's 735 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:52,160 Speaker 1: what she said. Okay, we have one other question that's 736 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: been lingering in my mind that we found the course 737 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: of the research for this, which is the following did 738 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: Pamela Anderson really try to assassinate Julian Assange with a 739 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: vegan sandwich? Let us know what you think science signs 740 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: point to maybe so. Uh, let's let's get to the 741 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: bottom of that one. Let's get to the bottom of 742 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,399 Speaker 1: that one. We hope that you enjoyed today's episode. We 743 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,760 Speaker 1: do have our eye on how this situation will develop. 744 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 1: One thing's for sure. While legal Limbo may have worked 745 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: in the Ecuadorian embassy for nearly seven years, events are 746 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,879 Speaker 1: probably going to progress at a faster clip from here 747 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,240 Speaker 1: on out. And it may be that Assange's ultimate fate 748 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: is decided within the next twelve months. We genuinely do 749 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: not know, but we will be watching as you are watching, 750 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,880 Speaker 1: and we'll have another update. If it's you know, important 751 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: enough to come along. Uh, maybe we can couch it 752 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: in another episode or something. Maybe we can interview him. 753 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, Uh, what was his lawyer's name, Barry Pollock? 754 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: Are you still in contact act with Juliana Sang Are 755 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: you listening to this? Are you Barry Pollock's uh sounder 756 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: daughter for relative or maybe coworker or any of the 757 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: above for Jennifer Robinson Osange is London based attorney. Yes, 758 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: get right to us. Let us know. You can find 759 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. Where are 760 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:23,799 Speaker 1: you guys on Instagram? I'm at Embryonic Insider for now, 761 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: I am at Ben Bowling and Matt you're at uh, 762 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:32,800 Speaker 1: you're at Sandwich King right, yes, Sandwich Kings with a z. 763 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: Oh that's right, that's right, that's right. Sure, that's me. Yeah. Uh. 764 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do that, you can find 765 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: us on Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff or Facebook conspiracy stuff. 766 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: You can look at our Facebook page called Here's where 767 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,959 Speaker 1: it gets Crazy. Yeah, it's a lot of fun conversation 768 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: and memory and discussions. We have usually have a post 769 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 1: for every episode where you can kind of keep the 770 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,399 Speaker 1: discussion in that field so it doesn't get out of control. Um. 771 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,799 Speaker 1: All you gotta do to become a member of that 772 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: is name one of our names, just one, I think, 773 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 1: just one, or make us chuck or yeah exactly. We 774 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: save screenshots of a lot of those, and the good 775 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 1: ones are quite good and you will get in with 776 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: just a very clever nod. Just mentioned Badgers somewhere, oh boy, yeah, 777 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 1: oh yes, and Matt, what do people do if the 778 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,439 Speaker 1: social meads are just not for them, and then it's 779 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,040 Speaker 1: not their their bag badgers. Well put those social meds down, 780 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,759 Speaker 1: because we have something that your phone can do. No, 781 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: it's not browsing the internet. No, it's not post Instagram things. 782 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: It can be a dumb phone. You can literally make 783 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: a phone call to us. You can leave a message, 784 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: give us a call. We are one eight three three 785 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. Have you noticed that's 786 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: becoming affront to call people like? People just are like, 787 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: they just don't they're not about it. What is this? 788 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:53,880 Speaker 1: What is this thing that's happening to my phone right 789 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: now as it's buzzing a numbers coming up? Throw it 790 00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: out the window, come up with fire. Have a shortlist? 791 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,359 Speaker 1: I think I have a shortlist of people for whom 792 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,839 Speaker 1: I will answer the phone. It's I think it's egregious. 793 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,839 Speaker 1: I think it's intrusional privacy. I gotten a little bit 794 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,280 Speaker 1: of tiff with our pals over at the Daily Zeitgeist 795 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: about it, because I told him I thought phone calls 796 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: were generally overrated. It's real, friends, text I'll die on 797 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: this hill. Well I won't die on that hill, but 798 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: I will disagree with you. Sir, because that's my one 799 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,880 Speaker 1: of my favorite ways of communicating. I also like a 800 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,920 Speaker 1: good phone call catch up from time to time, but 801 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 1: I do not like a quick phone call that could 802 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: be accomplished with a text. I think it's like a 803 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: good old friend catch up or like that's nice to 804 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: do over the phone, that personal touch. But if it's 805 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: a business thing or like a quick thing, I don't 806 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: like it when you call me all right, don't call 807 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: me a definitely call hey, hey, sorry, Paul, call our 808 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,359 Speaker 1: number because we we love hearing these amazing messages and 809 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,640 Speaker 1: we use them in episodes as well. Yeah, and if 810 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: you get a weird phone call from a four or 811 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: four or seven seven zero or six seven eight, depending 812 00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: on which randomized phone number I'm using, it's probably me 813 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,399 Speaker 1: because I'm calling you back because I really enjoy doing that. 814 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: You're also a great person. I just want to know. 815 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: I just don't don't listen to him, but I really 816 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:17,239 Speaker 1: enjoy calling you. Who people, anyone out there who is 817 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,960 Speaker 1: listening and has like taken the time to leave us 818 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 1: a voicemail. Oh yeah. It's just really cool to know 819 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: there are other humans out there and it's not just 820 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,919 Speaker 1: us in a box. I'm going to take a page 821 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: from the book of Matt and maybe I'll call a 822 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,400 Speaker 1: couple of you to do it. Matt, you're one of 823 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 1: the last great conversationalists. Sir, I tipped my hat to you, America. 824 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: And if that is your inspiration and you have a 825 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,320 Speaker 1: story that you feel we are more importantly, your fellow 826 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: listeners will immensely enjoy or just something that they should know. 827 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 1: Uh please, please don't let don't let social media be 828 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: an obstacle. If you don't care for phones, don't let 829 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,319 Speaker 1: that be an obstacle. You can contact us directly right now. 830 00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:59,719 Speaker 1: All you have to do is send us a good 831 00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 1: old an email. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio 832 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:23,719 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is 833 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 834 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:29,319 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 835 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.