1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry Rowland. This is 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know. Chuck, I'm thirty nine years old 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: and I still can't say my own name correctly because 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: of my stupid thick tongue. You're gonna be forty crazy. Yeah. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: I used to make fun of me, and now you're old. Well, 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: you're still older than me. I know nothing I can 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: do about that. That's cool though. Yeah you're aging very well. Yeah, no, 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: you're aging really well. But you mean the teeth falling out, 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: the weight gain, and they're the gray beard. I still 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: say you're aging very well. I appreciate it. Let's get here. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: Take off your hat. I still got good hair. Boom, 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: look at that. We got hatead now beautiful. Okay, we'll 15 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: think I'm bald. Some people do, like you're always wearing 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: that hat. Why. I don't know suspicious people. Yeah, like 17 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: the drummer for the Chili Peppers, Anthony keytith Flee, Nope, 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: the guy from Jaan's Addiction, Nope, I don't know them. 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: Not John Percant chat Smith, the guy that looks like 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: Will Ferrell, He's always Ferrell. He's always got that hat 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: on backwards. And um he's baldly like Brett Um Michael's bald. 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Remember he always wears a do Rag's super bald. So 23 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: I get why people are suspicious. If you're a public 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:38,279 Speaker 1: figure that has a patented hat piece, then it's probably 25 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: because you're bald, but not in my case. What a 26 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: weird way to start the show, especially this show, Operation Mincemeat, 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: which is a ghoulish gallows humor awesomely World War two 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: British name for this, this operation. Yeah, this will live 29 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: alongside our our Nazi spies and Invading Florida podcast and 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: the History Girls covered this this very topic as well. Yeah, man, 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing I love more than little known history. This 32 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: is this is it. But this is great little known history. 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: And this shouldn't be middle known because it was after 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: the Trojan War, maybe the largest and most successful military 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: deception plan in history. Well, there's also have you seen 36 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: that documentary Ghost Army about Operation Fortitude. They used a 37 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: bunch of blow up tanks and planes, like inflatable tanks 38 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: and planes to make it look like there's a whole 39 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: Allied division over here, so that we could invade Normandy 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: more you it's like a Looney Tune cartoon. Awesome, But yes, 41 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: this ranks up there with literally with the Trojan Horses. 42 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: It's that ingenious and that wonderful. But so let's set 43 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: the stage right. So in early nineteen UM the war 44 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: was very much undecided. It could have been anybody's, like your, 45 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: Europe was under the control of Hitler, huge amounts of Europe. 46 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: They called it Fortress Europe because he the Nazis were 47 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: just had just overrun the place, right dug in and um, 48 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: the the Allies knew that they needed to get into 49 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: Europe to topple Hitler or else, like they weren't going 50 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: to win the war. So um Churchill suggested attacking Europe's underbelly, 51 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: which is maybe Italy, Greece, Sardinia. He called it the underbelly, 52 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: not very flattering, but he called it Europe's underbelly. So everybody, 53 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: the Allies, the Greeks, the Nazis, the Japanese, Um, the 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: people uh in Hawaii. Everybody knew, yeah, they weren't American 55 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: quite yet. Everybody knew that the Allies were gonna attack 56 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: somewhere in that area. Yeah, come up through the Mediterranean. 57 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: Even Hitler feared this the most. But right, and and 58 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: I mean everybody knew the Allies were coming and they 59 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: were gonna come there. But this, this land mass, this 60 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: area land and see is large enough that you can't 61 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: just be like, oh, they're coming down there, we got 62 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: it covered. You need to know kind of specifically where 63 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: they were covering. And there were just a few places 64 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: where they could have come. One was Greece, that was 65 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: where Hitler always suspected. One was Sardinia, right, and then 66 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: another was Sicily. And in ninety three, I think January, 67 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: the Allied powers met in French Morocco and held um 68 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: a conference, the Casablanca Conference. Yeah, it really was. And 69 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: um they said, okay, we're going to invade Sicily this July. 70 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna call it Operation Husky. Now we have to 71 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: do everything we can to not let the Nazis know 72 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: that that's where we're going. And that actually hatched eventually 73 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: what's called Operation Mincemeat. Yeah, you know what. Studying this 74 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: stuff and I'm not a big war buff um, although 75 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm getting more so, but reading up on this stuff 76 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: like the old war are so much like the board 77 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: game risk that it's startling. Yeah, it's literally when you 78 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: look at the stuff, it's like moving troops to where 79 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: you think people are going to attack you and rolling 80 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: the dice a bit, and if you're right, then great, 81 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: If not, you're screwed very much though, which is why 82 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: it's such a huge shift that we're seeing now in 83 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: moving to unconventional warfare, because that's scary stuff. Yeah. I 84 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: think pretty much all war is scary. Yeah. Well, of 85 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: course I'm not saying like Normandy was a gig walk 86 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: or anything, because they knew what they was going on. Man, 87 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: I watched Saving Private Ryan again the other day. God, 88 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: it's crazy. That thing's almost a snuff film. It's not 89 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: as bad as We Were Soldiers, which is a snuff film, 90 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: but it's I never saw that one, the Mel Gibson where, Yeah, dude, 91 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: it's it's the most graphically violent mainstream movie ever made. Really. Yes, Yeah, 92 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: Like there's a part where there's there they have a 93 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: shot a camera shot over this guy's shoulder, right, so 94 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: his helmets in the in the near four ground and 95 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: that guy takes a hit to the head and like 96 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: blood spray covers the camera lens for the next like 97 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: a little while his brains just cover the camera. It's disgusting. 98 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: Did you like Saving Private Again? Yeah, it's it's a 99 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: great movie, but it is like really like violent. That's 100 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: another thing about getting older is that stuff affects you 101 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: more and more. The more you come to terms with 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: your own mortality, the more valuable life becomes. The more 103 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: valuable even a character in a movie's life becomes, you 104 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: know what I mean? That stuff gets to agreed, It's 105 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: called growing up, my friend, I'm becoming human, isn't it 106 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: grows alright? So on September twenty nine, nine nine, Uh, 107 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: there was a director of British Naval Intelligence name Admiral 108 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: John Godfrey, and he distributed something called the Trout Memo 109 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: and um, it was written by his assistant, Lieutenant Commander 110 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: Ian Fleming. Familiar name, yeah, creator of James ball Own. 111 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,239 Speaker 1: That's right, the guy, And uh, I think most people 112 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: know that he served at this point. Yeah, but um, 113 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: if you didn't, that's a nice little factoroid for you. 114 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: So he he wrote the Trout Memo and they called 115 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: it the Trout Memo memo because they pointed out in 116 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: the intro that this that the trout fisherman fishes very patiently, 117 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: but he changes venue frequently, and he changes his bait 118 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: very frequently too, And so they wanted to they're charged 119 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: with deception. They wanted to come up with all these 120 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: different ideas, all this different bait and venue changes that 121 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: they could come up with. Yeah, and this was the 122 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: time too. We should point out that um spying, spying 123 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: is always vital, but man of World War two, it 124 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: was going on all over the place in a huge, 125 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: huge part of the war. So, um, we need to 126 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: do one on the Enigma machine. By the way, at 127 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: some point we do because that's one of the unsung 128 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: heroes in this operation. Absolutely. Um. Alright, So with the 129 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: trout memo. In Flaming wrote uh Well co authored fifty 130 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: one different operations suggestions, and number twenty eight was one 131 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: called a suggestion parentheses not a very nice one. The 132 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: following suggestion is used in a book by Basil Thompson. 133 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: I'm so pleased that you said Basil instead of Basil. Uh. 134 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: In fact, that was the novel The Milliner's Hat Mystery. 135 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: And he was actually a World War One spy. Oh really, yea, 136 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: So he was it a spy writer that Ian Fleming, 137 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: the creator James Bond, Doug Crazy, So that's where this originally, 138 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: so uh here I'm getting that's right. The following suggestion 139 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: is used in a book by Basil Thompson Colin. A 140 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: corpse dressed as an airman with dispatches in his pockets 141 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: could be dropped on the coast, supposedly from a parachute 142 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: that had failed. I understand there is no difficulty in 143 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: obtaining corpses at the Naval hospital, but of course it 144 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: would have to be a fresh one. So the idea is, 145 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: let's get a dead person, let's dress him up like 146 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: a soldier, given some sensitive documents that leak this invasion fraudulent, fraudulent, 147 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: very important, that leak the invasion of Greece, which is 148 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: not really happening, and they're gonna mount up troops there 149 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: and we'll actually go in Sicily. They're gonna find this body. 150 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: They're gonna think they've stumbled upon this great happy accident 151 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: and we're going to fool him. So yeah, that was 152 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: the That was the whole idea, That was the general 153 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,599 Speaker 1: basis of it. And Churchill loved the idea because apparently 154 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: He liked what he called corkscrew thinkers because he knew 155 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: Hitler thought in a straight line. Yes, and by corkscrew thinkers, 156 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: I think that would be our equivalent of outside the box. Yeah. Yeah. 157 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: Churchill was like, this is great. I love church Let's 158 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: drink some scotch and do it. Yeah, let's look like 159 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: a bulldog. So um they the well. That idea was 160 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: roughly outlined by Ian Fleming, and then the the Churchill's 161 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: Court screw Thinkers, the exc committee led by Um you 162 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: and Montague and um Chumley. Yeah, which is his name 163 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: is not spelled Chumley? How's it spelled? Are you ready 164 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: for this? Charles c h O l m O n 165 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: d e l e y pronounced Chumley. Yeah, And apparently 166 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: when he met people he would say, uh, Lieutenant Charles 167 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: Chumley c h O l m O n d e 168 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: l e y. He would spell it out, Yeah, Are 169 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: you making fun of me? Or is there for no? No No? No. 170 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 1: He was a very quirky guy, and that's how he 171 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: described himself as toothpaste, as if it had been squeezed 172 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: from the tube. Like he self described. He would go 173 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: hunting with a revolver like bird hunting is a weird guy. 174 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: I actually watched a quickie BuzzFeed video on this and 175 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: they've pronounced it Charles cholmondel Did they really? Yeah, I'm 176 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: glad we did our research exactly shout out with the BuzzFeed. 177 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: So you and Montague right, yeah, the other guy. He 178 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: is noteworthy in a number of ways to apparently it's 179 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: just the greatest guy ever, most interesting man on the planet. Um. 180 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: And he actually wrote the book, the first book on 181 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: Operation mince Meat, because he was one of the people 182 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: who came up with this and implemented it. The man 183 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: who was never there, the man who never was so too. Yeah, 184 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: of the same name starring Montgomery Cliff, I believe, no, 185 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: starring Cliff Clay Web. Cliff Claven Cliff Web, but not 186 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 1: Montgomery Clift. Those two are virtually interchangeable there, So um 187 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: what you and Montague was already notable because at school 188 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: he and his brother had created the rules for um 189 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: ping pong I know that, among other things, and his 190 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: brother equally interesting equally um rambunctious went on to become 191 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: a spy for the Soviets. Wow. Yeah, so he turned 192 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: yes against England, Yes against everybody? Except for the Soviets. Well, 193 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: Montague was, uh, he was formerly a barrister, an attorney, 194 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: and um, this is why he actually did not go 195 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: serve on a ship. Um. And the other guy, Chumley, 196 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: never flew a plane. One was air Force, one was 197 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: a navy. Uh. And apparently Montague was as an attorney, 198 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: was very good at just seeing all the angles. So 199 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: they said, you, sir, are perfect for this job. And 200 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: they picked wisely because these guys really pulled it off. 201 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: So we'll dive into this much more in depth right 202 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: after this, all right, Chucky, So we have the rough 203 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: outline that Ian Fleming came up with the XX Committee, 204 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: led by you and Montague and Charles Chumley, the part 205 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: of m I five, I believe. Um said we're gonna 206 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: take this particular idea and really run with it. Um. 207 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: And like you said, they were going to, Well, the 208 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: first thing they did was start setting about creating a backstory. Well, 209 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: they had three months, so that the clock is ticking 210 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, because here's the thing. They set 211 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: the invasion right in January, and they set the invasion 212 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: for July. Now you needed enough time to um plant 213 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: this this corpse, this fake dead courier um that had 214 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: ended Nazi hands and give the with enough time so 215 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: that the Nazis could digest it, analyze it, decided it 216 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: was truthful, and then react the way you wanted them to, 217 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: which meant that they had no later than May or 218 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: else this plan was out the window. Yeah, you wanted them. 219 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: The ultimate goal was to have the Nazis put their 220 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: troops in the wrong place, and that takes time, so 221 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: they they looked around and they decided that the best 222 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: place to carry out this operation was Spain. And Spain 223 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: during World War Two was allegedly ostensibly neutral, but they 224 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: had a lot of acts as sympathies, a lot of 225 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: connections to Nazi Germany. And there was a particular Nazi agent, 226 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: a spy working in a port called Um Whoell Whoeverla 227 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: Whoeverla right Um, and his name was Adolf Klaus. And 228 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: Adolf Klaus was known to be very methodical, pretty brutal, 229 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: brutal and ruthless, extremely gullible. Yeah, he was a straight 230 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: line thinker. He was hitler. He wasn't one that could 231 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: think outside the box and think, maybe this is an 232 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: elaborate hoax that that guy didn't even own. A real corkscrew, 233 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, like they cut the top to off of 234 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: wine bottles. Yeah, they specifically targeted, which is amazing. So 235 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: they wanted this guy who was fairly gullible but also 236 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: known as like a very respected Nazi agent in Spain 237 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: um to be the one who came up with this 238 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: corpse and could ever so before they ever had any 239 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: corps or could have or anything like that, Montague and 240 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: um and Chumley start setting about creating a backstory, and 241 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: they created this guy named Major Um Martin, William Martin, 242 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: that's right. And they created Major William Martin, and they 243 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: created this whole persona and this wasn't the first time 244 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: they've done it, that they had actually they had um 245 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: chops with this kind of stuff. So they had created 246 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: a fake spy network that made Nazi Germany think that 247 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: they had a whole double double agent network in the UK. 248 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: And all of them were fictitious, not real people that 249 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: you and Montague and Charles Chumley had created these fake 250 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: personas and had fed the Nazis misinformation through these people 251 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: that didn't really exist. So they that that understanding and 252 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: that thinking of what it takes to create a fake persona, 253 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: and they said about creating one for Major William Martin. Yeah, 254 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: and um, if you there's a great BBC documentary on this, 255 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: and they interview a lot of the players, um, including 256 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the women who worked at m I 257 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: five in the office, and they were all just so 258 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: delighted that they all described this as like the most 259 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: exciting adventure they'd ever had. It was like something out 260 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: of a spine novel and they were living it. And 261 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: so they all had great fun creating these characters that 262 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: these made up people. Um. They wanted to give him 263 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: a fiance because the idea is that they find this 264 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: body with what not only these documents in a briefcase, 265 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: the important documents, but to make it believable, he had 266 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: to have believable what they called pocket litter or wallet litter, 267 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: which is if you find any person on the street, 268 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: ask them to open their wallet, you're gonna be able 269 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: to tell a lot about them. So just stuff to 270 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: legitimize it. So they said, let's give him a fiance, 271 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: and all the women in the office wanted to be 272 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: the fiance, so they all submitted photographs. They picked this one, 273 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: Lady Jean Leslie, uh secretary Okay, that's the lady on 274 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: the beach. Yes, picked her of her in a bathing 275 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: suit on the beach, so this was going to be 276 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: planted on his body. Uh. They all wanted to write 277 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: the love letters back and forth, but they picked a 278 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: woman named Hester Leggert, the head secretary of m I five, 279 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: and she wrote even though she was a spinster, she 280 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: wrote all these like heartfelt love letters. The first couple 281 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: of drafts were really dirty, and they were like, you 282 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,719 Speaker 1: gott to tone this down a little, like, is that 283 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: what you think happens in a relationship? No, not me. 284 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: So everyone's really excited in the office. Um Chumley is 285 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: wearing what would eventually be the uniform of Martin every 286 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: day to give it that worn in look. Monta Hue 287 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: actually ended up having an affair with the secretary who 288 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: gave him the photo as the fiance. They had a 289 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: real life affair as Bill and Pam. Pam is the 290 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: made up fian say, got they got a little weird 291 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: that it is a little weird, Like they wrote each 292 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: other love letters, had a real life affair calling each 293 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: other Bill and Pam. So there was some like strange 294 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: role playing going on. I'm sure, he was married at 295 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: the time. His family had been shipped to America, so 296 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: he was not doing the right thing there he was 297 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: he was allows in that department. Well you know also 298 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: um Roll Dahl, the guy who wrote James and Giant 299 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: Peach and Charlietor he was a spy for the British. 300 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: He was in the British military and his whole job 301 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: was to basically bed um the wives of American officials 302 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: here in Washington. Really yeah, did he do so? Oh? Yeah? Wow? 303 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 1: Oh he made his way through Washington society apparently with 304 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: great zeal. Alright, so they're cooking up this backstory. Uh, 305 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: they get other great things for the wallet litter, like, uh, 306 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: theater ticket stubs and an overdraft letter from his bank 307 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: and just these things that make it seem like super realistic. 308 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: And what else they I think they gave him a 309 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: st Christopher Metal. Maybe they wanted to strongly imply that 310 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: he was Roman Catholic and that will come up, uh 311 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: very it will become very important in a minute. Right, 312 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: So they've got this backstory and apparently like this, they 313 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: were working feverishly on this stuff, having the weirdo affair 314 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: wearing the uniform all that stuff before they'd even gotten 315 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: final approval, just because they didn't want to stop work 316 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: and then had to pick it up feverishly. They wanted 317 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: this to to keep going. So they finally got final 318 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: approval from Admiral Godfrey um to carry out this thing 319 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: for real. And when they got final approval, they said, okay, 320 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: we need a body, and they figured no problem they 321 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: were looking at first. They needed somebody who um, who 322 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: had relatives that didn't care what happened to the body 323 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: after death and could keep their mouth shut. Um. They 324 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: needed a body that was of military age, didn't have 325 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: any signs of visible trauma um right um, and that 326 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: that preferably they would have died of pneumonia. And the 327 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: reason that they wanted him to die of pneumonia is 328 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: because they were going to make it look like this 329 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: guy had been in a plane crash, um, but it 330 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: survived the plane crash, but it drowned at sea. And 331 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: if he had pneumonia, then his fluids would be filled 332 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: with long so that when the Spanish conducted in autopsy 333 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: on them. Yeah, so that when the Spanish conducted their autopsy, 334 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: they'd be like, that's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. 335 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: I've never seen fluid filled with lungs, but that's how 336 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: much fluid there is. The problem is is they didn't 337 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: get their hands on a guy with pneumonia, and they 338 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: didn't even know exactly where to get a person at first. 339 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: It wasn't until they turned the guy who ran the 340 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: more g at St. Pancras Hospital, which is the worst 341 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: hospital name of all time. Um, they turned him and 342 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: got him to assist them that they finally got their 343 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: hands on body. Yeah. His name was sir uh, Sir 344 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: Bentley Purchase, which is a great name, and uh it was. 345 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: He was a corner of the largest mortuary at Sat. Pancras, 346 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: terrible and he had apparently a wicked sense of humor. 347 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: It was pretty complicated to give directions to his office. 348 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: So when he gave Montyue the directions, he said, or 349 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: he could just get run over by a bus. Nice man. 350 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: The British during wartime where they're having their sense of 351 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: humor was wonderful. So they got Bentley Purchased and he said, 352 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: I've got a dude. Um, his name is Glendor Michael. 353 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah that is not how that's spelled either, No, it 354 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: is g l Y n d w R Super Welsh. Yeah, 355 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: he was a Welshman born in nineteen o nine. He 356 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: was the son of a coal miner. His father killed 357 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: himself by stabbing himself in the throat. I hadn't read 358 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: that and it didn't say like slit your throat, said 359 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: he stabbed himself in the throat, which is weird and at. 360 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: So his dad died when he was a teenager. Mother 361 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: died when he was thirty. Uh, alcoholic, had a rough 362 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: go because of the depression and was basically basically killed 363 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: himself by ingesting rat poison. So that is not necessarily 364 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: resolved whether it was suicide. Yeah, so they they the 365 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: Bentley purchased wrote down that he um he killed himself. 366 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: It was ruled a suicide, okay. But the way that 367 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: he ate the rat poison, it was on a crust 368 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: of bread. He was hungry, they wondered. So he he 369 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: may have been so destitute that he ate a crust 370 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: of bread that he found in an abandoned warehouse and 371 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: it was smeared with rat poison and that's what he 372 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: died of. But they found him in this cold January 373 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: night in nineteen forty three. Um, in this abandoned warehouse 374 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: in London, and um, he had just eaten some rat poison. 375 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: But he survived for two more days. And so Bentley 376 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: purchased guy, his hands on him and said I think 377 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: I found your guy. Dudes, Yeah, and they did. Um. 378 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: There were some issues, of one of which is they 379 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: needed a photo of the guy for an I d 380 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: He didn't have any photos. And every time they took 381 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: a picture of the dead guy's face, they were like, 382 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: he looks like a dead guy. Yeah, really, So they scoured. 383 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: You can see your fingers holding his eyes up. So 384 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: they scoured London looking for a look alike and eventually 385 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: found a guy at a fellow intelligence officer who looked 386 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: just like him. Aweso, they used his face. Aw it's 387 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: all coming together, Yes it is. I'm sure they were like, Wow, 388 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: Providence is really smiling on this. Yeah. And if you're 389 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: feeling bad for Glenn, do or just hang tight? Yeah, 390 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: I still think you can feel bad for Glenn or 391 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: talk about a rough life. Jeez, do you remember that 392 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: one Sara atte Live where Robert Duval was like super 393 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: special guest. He wasn't even hosting or mentioned, He just 394 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: showed up on this game show called Who's More Grizzled? 395 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: And he talks about like it was him and Garth Brooks. 396 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: How do I miss that? And um he talks about 397 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: how one one cold her his wife died and he 398 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: had to keep her out in the barn until the 399 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: ground thaws so we can bury her out back. What. Yeah, 400 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: it was just weird like that. It wasn't even really funny. 401 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: It was more just like, wow, that really is hard. 402 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: But the whole game show was Who's more Grizzled anyone? 403 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: Of course, because Robert Duvall, Yeah, he's more grizzled than 404 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: Garth Brooks even even Yeah, yeah, poor guard from Poor 405 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: Garth books. What are you talking about? I'm talking about 406 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: the Chris Gaines thing. He chose to do it. He's 407 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: a wealthy man. Yeah, I don't feel too bad for him, 408 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: but I think that was evidence that he was surrounded 409 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: by yes man at the time. That was a weird thing. Though. Yeah, 410 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: he faked a soul patch that wasn't even real. No, 411 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: I mean, even if it was real, it was part 412 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: of his character. It's like I thought you meant it 413 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: was Sharpie maybe Okay, the hair was definitely colored with 414 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: Sharpie all right, so where where are we here? We've 415 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,120 Speaker 1: got a body. We finally got the photograph of him, yeah, 416 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: which is that's amazing. I didn't know that part. And um, 417 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: there's another thing we found this awesome a military analysis 418 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: of it. So that's kind of cool. Somebody wrote a 419 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: military analysis of this. I don't remember who, so I 420 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: can't come a shout out, but we'll put it on 421 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: our podcast page. But they point out that one of 422 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the reasons this was so successful this operation was one 423 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: these guys at Excess commit x X committee just had 424 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: free run to break the law, um, bend morality, do 425 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff. Um, they just were able to 426 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: go do their thing. But the other thing was is 427 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: that they really kept this lid on this stuff and 428 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: it was all disseminated on a need to know basis. 429 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: So when they had this guy, they had him, they 430 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: had they got glend Doer, kept him on ice for 431 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: three months as they finished his backstory. They're running up 432 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: against like go time, and then I think in um 433 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: February or March April maybe I'm not sure the date. 434 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: Do you know that what happened when they finally um 435 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: carried out Operation mincemeat. Let's just say spring because I 436 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: know that they kept him on ice for a few months. Yeah, 437 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: and they so they're up to the point where the 438 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 1: d comp is about to give away that this guy 439 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: didn't just recently die. Yeah, and that was a big 440 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: fear that the Spanish uh corners would be able to 441 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: tell to which will come up in a minute, Okay, 442 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: and um, they're also getting to the point where they're 443 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: reaching the end of the amount of time that they 444 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: need to give the Nazis to absorb this MINS information. 445 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: So they finally they get the guys persona in place, 446 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: they have the body, and now it's time to actually 447 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: carry out the operation. And like I was saying, they 448 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: kept a lid on all this, so it was a 449 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: need to know basis. So they got their hands on 450 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: a sub commander who could keep his mouth shut, and 451 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: they gave him a metal cylinder um with the corpse 452 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: of glendor Michael now Major William Martin. Yeah, when you 453 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: say subcommander mean submarine. Yes, not a commander below regular commander, 454 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: the submarine commander. They gave him the cylinder and they said, 455 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna tell you what's in here. Do not tell 456 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: anybody else. So apparently the people uh staffing this sub um, 457 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: I thought this was some sort of weather buoy. Yeah, 458 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: it was marked optical instruments. Um. But you're right. He 459 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: was the only one on board supposedly that knew there 460 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: was a body inside. Yep, And they put a life 461 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: jacket on him, stuffed him in the cylinder, put him 462 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: on the sub and took him over to Spain under 463 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: a on a submarine. Well, let's back up for one second, 464 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: because we we forgot to cover the main letter in 465 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: the This was the all of operation mince meat. It 466 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: did not hinge on theater ticket stubs or bank overdraft letters. 467 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: That's merely pocket litter. It hinged on a letter hinting 468 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: strongly that the invasion was gonna come up through Greece Sardinia. Right. 469 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: And that was the other thing too. It wasn't like 470 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: official document invasion is going to come through Greece. It 471 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: was a letter from one general or admiral to another 472 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: high ranking guy, I think general Nie. Uh. They composed 473 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of different letters themselves, and finally they said, 474 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: why don't you write it in your own words, in 475 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: your own language, in your own handwriting. Everything so it 476 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: really was written by this this um high ranking US 477 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: military official or British military official, um who who who 478 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: wrote this fake letter? And he made a joke about sardines, 479 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: a terrible joke, which was the little hint that was 480 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: just clever enough to work, right, And so in it 481 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: it basically says, um, we're we're coming up with the 482 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to strike through Greece, that's where 483 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: the invasion of Europe is going to be. Um, but 484 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: we're also going to tell everybody that Sicily is the cover. Right. 485 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: And this was a stroke of genius because in this 486 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: this false letter, not only does it show that they're 487 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: coming through Greece, which they weren't, but it says that 488 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: Cecily is the cover, which would make the Nazis think 489 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: that if anyone ever did actually leak the real invasion 490 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: plan of Sicily, the Nazis would think that that was misinformation. Dude, 491 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: it was so ingenious. That's crazy genes. And I think 492 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: about here now, Chuck, we get to the point where 493 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: we should talk about the Enigma machine and the role 494 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: it played, right, Yeah, Well, basically we all know that 495 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: the Enigma machine was the codebreaking machine invented in the 496 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: UK two decipher. Uh. Well, the Enigma machine wrote the code. 497 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: I think, oh it wrote the code, yeah, and then 498 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: the decipher code that they had gotten they deciphered it 499 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: at Bletchley Park. But I think the Enigma machine was 500 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: the actual code writing the encrypting machine. I could be wrong, 501 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: but okay, well, so we definitely need to do a 502 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: podcast on there because we're mixed up already to get 503 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: it straight. But at any rate, the long and short 504 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: of it is, and Beckley Park was Beckley Park. I 505 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: always say blutch ely was there an Ellen there? I 506 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: draw the whole ugly word out. Uh, they basically had 507 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: they could. It was like reading the Nazis email essentially 508 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: on a daily basis basis, hourly basis. They knew exactly 509 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: what was going on, so they would know if they 510 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: were buying this whole thing as it happened in real time. 511 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: But even before that they were able to craft this 512 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: this misinformation based on the Nazis assumptions. So everybody wants 513 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: to hear that there are assumptions that their beliefs are correct. 514 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: People are more apt to buy that things that confirm 515 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: their suspicions of their beliefs already, right, Hitler was worried 516 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: about Sicily. He he was, so he he already thought 517 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: that Greece was going to be where we invaded. And 518 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: then secondly he was he we knew that he had 519 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: heard rumors that Mussolini was going to be toppled soon, 520 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: so he was reticent to commit troops to Italy Sicily. Right. 521 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: So this, this revelation that came in the form of 522 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: this letter, this false letter, completely supported everything that Hitler 523 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: and the Third Reich believed as far as this European 524 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: invasion was going to go. And we're able to do 525 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: that thanks to the smarties at Bletchley Park, right yeah, 526 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: and uh, this letter too. It's um. There's another little tidbit. 527 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: They put a single eyelash in the fold of the 528 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: letter so they would know when they eventually got this 529 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: letter back. If there was no eyelash, they would know 530 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: that the Nazi said in fact opened it. Um And 531 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: because the idea was they would open it and reseal 532 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: it and act like we never saw it. But there 533 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: wasn't that eyelash, and they'd know not so rudim entry. 534 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,239 Speaker 1: But it worked. Oh yeah, So, um, did you take 535 00:31:44,240 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: another break. Let's take a break, all right, I'm getting excited. Okay, So, Chuck, 536 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: we are at sea aboard a submarine, Jolie down here 537 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: and it is and you're not supposed to be smoking cigars. 538 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: No you're not, despite Gene Hackman doing it and Crimson tied. Yeah, 539 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: what a bad idea. Um. So we're off the coast 540 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: of Spain. We're off the coast of whoeverla not an 541 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: easy word to say, but it's important Spain. And again 542 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: this is where Nazi agent Aidolf Klaus. Yeah, they kind 543 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: of want to float the body right up to this 544 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: guy's backyard basically, so they did. He was released from 545 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: this canister. I I read somewhere else that, um, the 546 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: canister itself was fired on with submarine submachine guns on 547 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: a sub so you could just call the machine guns there. Um, 548 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: And it was sunk and the body drifted off towards 549 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: Oh I thought they just dumped the body. Yeah, I'm 550 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: not sure, because I found a book, um on Google books. 551 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: It was like from two thousand and seven, and it 552 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: was a history book and it made it sound like 553 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: the sub the people working on the sub all knew 554 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: what was going on. But that's in start start contrast 555 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: to everything else we've seen. So they may or may 556 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 1: not have sunk the weatherbooy, who knows, but either way, 557 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: Major Martin was released into the current that took him 558 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: right to Huevla and he went. I think he was 559 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: found by a fisherman that same day. Yeah, and at 560 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: this point the um the Brits started sending telegrams about 561 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: a very important missing person frantic Yeah, like they wanted 562 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: these to get intercepted obviously, uh, and that worked as well. 563 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: This is all really going exactly as they planned. So 564 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: they sent the British Council in Spain in Huevla, um 565 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: or in Spain to Huevla and said, you need this 566 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: is really important. You need to get your hands on 567 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: the briefcase, find out what happened to this guy and 568 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: get your hands on his briefcase. And Claus was going 569 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: briefcase right as Monocle popped out, and um, the British 570 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: Council and Spain didn't even know what was going on. 571 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 1: They thought like this, like they were they saw everything 572 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: from the same aspect of reality that the Nazis saw exactly. 573 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: So the British Council are trying to get this briefcase 574 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: kind of frantically um. And the Spaniards were like, uh, 575 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: you know what, we are just going to keep this 576 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: on lockdown for now is we investigate the whole thing. 577 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: But we got it covered, remember where neutral, so your 578 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: briefcase is safe. And the British consul said, well, okay, 579 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: one thing this is very important. Uh. This guy was 580 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: Roman Catholic. You can check out the medal in his pocket. Um, 581 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: so please don't dissect him. It's against Roman Catholic beliefs 582 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: and traditions to um dissect or autopsy body. I hadn't 583 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: heard before, but apparently in the forties that was the 584 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: case and that super Roman Catholic and they said, oh, yes, 585 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: of course we won't do that. So apparently that's how 586 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: they got around the fact that Glenda her hadn't died 587 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: of pneumonia. Uh yeah. And the other way they got 588 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: around it was they had a plant uh in the 589 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: office who talked to the corners and was like, guys, 590 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: it's hot and this body is going to start riding 591 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: real soon. So how thorough do you really want to 592 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: make this? And they said, you're right, Let's go have 593 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: some some wine. Some Uh what do they call it 594 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: over there, No, it's the pretty Yeah, let's go have 595 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: some sangria and knock off early. And that's exactly what 596 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: happened thanks to the plans. Uh, so this is going on. 597 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: There was a small wrinkle at this point. The briefcase 598 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: went to Madrid, Spain wasn't gonna hand it over to anyone, um, 599 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: but the Brits were trying to get it in the 600 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: hands of the Nazis. And they're actually having trouble getting 601 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: it into the hands of the Nazis until a guy 602 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: named Carlo Coolan Tall he was Hitler's most trusted guy 603 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: in Spain. Uh, he got wind of it and kind 604 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: of took over for Klauss. Was like, I'm gonna get 605 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: this briefcase, and he did. Nine days later after the 606 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: body washed Ashore. The letter ended up in the hands 607 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: of the German. The German, uh you know, it worked 608 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: his way up the chain. Yeah, to Hitler himself. Yeah. 609 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: I went to Gebel's first, and Gebel's even in his 610 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: diary they found later had suspicions about it because he 611 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: was a corkscrew thinker, and he was like, wait a minute, 612 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: this is pretty convenient Yeah, this is really fishy here, 613 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: but he apparently never said anything to Hitler. He got distracted. 614 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: He wrote about in his diary, but the documentary said 615 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: his thinking was, well, if Hitler believes it, then that's 616 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: good enough for me. It seems like bad idea. Yeah, 617 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: and um, homeboy Carlo coolintal. There was always a lot 618 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: of speculation on why he just ran with it and 619 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: didn't ask more questions because that was his job. And 620 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: it turns out his grandmother was Jewish and he was 621 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: very paranoid about this being found out. So he thought, 622 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: this is it. I've come upon the greatest find the 623 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,399 Speaker 1: war and it's all mine, so no one will ask 624 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 1: any questions about me after this. Wow, that worked out 625 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: really really well. Yeah, very convenient and thanks to the 626 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 1: Enigma machine they knew. Um, the Brits knew pretty quickly 627 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: that this was working. And I guess Montague and um 628 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: Chumbley were uh sent and Admiral God for you transmission 629 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: that said Operation mince Meat swallowed, rod blind and sinker. 630 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: Yeah that when when the it's so cool seeing these 631 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: old like, uh, apparently you're not supposed to be elderly anymore. 632 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: By the way, we got an email. I knew that 633 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: or seniors. You're supposed to call them older adults seniors. 634 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,720 Speaker 1: I didn't know that that was the thing. Yeah, older adults. 635 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: So they're interviewing these older adults, these British ladies that 636 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: are in their eighties now, and they were just also 637 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: still excited, they said when they because you know, with 638 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: the Enigma machine, they were basically reading their emails and 639 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: they were like there, they knew they were buying it. 640 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: They're buying it, and everyone was just like flipped when 641 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: that came through the office. It was just like party 642 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: time basically. So the operation meant me really really worked 643 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: really well, so much so that apparently Hitler moved a 644 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: panzer division which totals about ninety thousand troops from Sicily 645 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 1: to Greece and and all artillery and armaments and everything, Sicily, 646 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: We're going to Greece. And then up came the Allies 647 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 1: through Sicily. Hundred and sixty thousand Allied troops storm Sicily 648 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: and only seven thousand lives were lost, which is still 649 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: in a lot of people who died. But apparently, as 650 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: far as military historians are concerned, and I think the 651 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,240 Speaker 1: military at the time, that was a way fewer lives 652 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: lost than they expected, had they had Hitler not swallowed 653 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: Operation minced Me. Yeah, they expected, um, ten thousand casualties 654 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: in the first three days and three hundred boats sunk 655 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 1: in the first two days, and it ended up being 656 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 1: four in that first week soldiers and about a dozen 657 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: ships in that first week. So that's not bad. Yeah. 658 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: And not only that, but it had another effect, big 659 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: one the Soviets. Yeah. So this is not something that 660 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: they teach in American history classes in US high schools 661 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: that much. The the Operation Husky, Uh, well it was. 662 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,760 Speaker 1: It was that penetration of Europe's underbelly, right, And suddenly 663 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: Hitler said, Um, I'm about to storm Russia, but I 664 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: really need these troops down here in Europe because I 665 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: got big problems. And that allowed basically Russia to topple 666 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: the Nazi regime and Mussolini get toppled by the Brits. 667 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: It completely changed the face of the war. This one 668 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: idea cooked up by mean Flaming in part that crazy. 669 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 1: It's pretty awesome. You got other stuff. Um, there's a 670 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: book called Operation Mincemeat by guy named Brett McIntyre. It 671 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and ten. That's a very good, 672 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: well cited book, um that we inadvertently cited here there. Um. 673 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: And then there's The Man Who Never Was, which was 674 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: written by you and Montague, which is not just about 675 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: Operation mince Meat, but also about basically how to carry 676 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: out deception plans. All right, Remember earlier when I said, 677 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,959 Speaker 1: don't feel too bad for uh, for Glendor Michael even 678 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: he said, well, the dude died possibly of suicide because 679 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: he was penniless and going nowhere. He thought about that, 680 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: but uh, fifty years after he was buried in uh 681 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: the British government added, they basically buried him with military honors. 682 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: The Spanish did. Yeah, he's buried in Spain, but the 683 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: British it came from the Brits, I think to do so. 684 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: His headstone, um came from the bridge, but the Spanish 685 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,359 Speaker 1: buried him with like the twenty one gun salute and everything. Yes, 686 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 1: as Glendor Michael served as Major William Martin R M 687 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: Royal Marine. Pretty cool. Yeah, So this alcoholic drifter who 688 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: never served in the military, ever served in the military, 689 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: buried with full military honors. Yeah, and completely changed the 690 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: face of the war thanks to being a body yeah, 691 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: that the fit the bill, and if you like ghoulish photos, 692 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,719 Speaker 1: is a very famous photo of him being propped up 693 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,760 Speaker 1: in his life checket and uniform as they were basically 694 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: loading him into the cylinder um that you can see 695 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: by searching. I'm sure major Charles Martin, that's right, Charles Martin. No, 696 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: William Martin, William Martin, something like that. I still want 697 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: to know what's going on with that weird role playing 698 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: there with that dude. That's a Dylan Pam. Yeah. Yeah, 699 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,879 Speaker 1: because they interviewed the lady and she was just like, oh, 700 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 1: it was all very exciting. Yeah, that's a great British 701 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: lady accent older person, yeah, older ad older adults, yeah, oldie. 702 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: If you want to get or no, if you want 703 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: to know more about Operation Mincemeat, just type that word 704 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,359 Speaker 1: into your favorite search engine or go check out the 705 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class episode And I said 706 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,879 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class. It's time for listener mail. 707 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this bread crust. We had that discussion 708 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: about the crust and the in pieces. Remember, so this 709 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: is from a dad uh. Dear Chuck and Josh, your 710 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:23,879 Speaker 1: discussion of the in slice of bread and the body 711 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,640 Speaker 1: language episode brought ridiculous grin in my face as I 712 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 1: walked around my neighborhood. Ah, don't worry, though, my neighbors 713 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: have thought me to be eccentric for years now. Look 714 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: at that guy smiling. What a weirdo. We must be 715 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: a pinko. When our daughters were still tiny, my wife 716 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 1: and I realized we were doomed to eighteen ish years 717 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: of eating bread crust pieces ourselves if we didn't figure 718 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: something out in quickly um our solution. We started calling 719 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,359 Speaker 1: those pieces the lucky piece, and boy did we look 720 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: our innocent, trusting toddlers. Turns out your supposition is correct. 721 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,919 Speaker 1: Chuck at least for children under eleven years old, even 722 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: if their honor students is mine, where they will fight 723 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: you for the right to eat that savory, ohso desirable 724 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: piece of luck. Idea younger adults rocking on guys, and 725 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,400 Speaker 1: please keep my goofy grinds coming. That is from Ted 726 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: c O. I n e with a little uh kin 727 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: A coin, A coin I sent to do. No, I 728 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: don't know. I didn't take French legom What do you 729 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: call that? A lagoon accent? Lagoom? So thanks Ted, I'll 730 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: just call you coin yeah quin quin an, I don't know, 731 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: let's say coin there. Uh yeah, thanks a lot. Ted. 732 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,919 Speaker 1: Ted contacted us on Twitter so he wanted to send 733 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: us this email, So there you go, Ted. Wow. Um. 734 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us, you 735 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: can try all the ways like Ted did. You can 736 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,600 Speaker 1: contact us on Twitter at s Y s K podcast. 737 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to stuff Podcast at 738 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. You can join us on 739 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know, and you 740 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,959 Speaker 1: can hang out at our luxurious home on the web 741 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: stuff you should Know dot com for more on this 742 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because it how stuff works 743 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 1: dot com