WEBVTT - Episode 858: Ibogaine – A Breakthrough Treatment for Addiction

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<v Speaker 1>On this episode of Newsworld. On June fourteenth, Governor Greg

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<v Speaker 1>Abbott of Texas approved legislation to spend fifty million dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in state money researching Ibogain, a powerful psychedelic In signing

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<v Speaker 1>the legislation, he put a spotlight on a drug that

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<v Speaker 1>is still illegal but that has shown promise in treating

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<v Speaker 1>opioid addiction, traumatic brain injury, and depression. The initiat is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the largest government investments in psychedelic medicine to date.

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<v Speaker 1>Interest in ibergain therapy has gained momentum in recent years,

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<v Speaker 1>driven in large part by veterans who had to travel

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<v Speaker 1>to other countries for treatment and studies showing the success

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<v Speaker 1>of the treatment. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest,

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<v Speaker 1>w Bryan Hubbard, executive director of Americans for Ibogain. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a driving force behind the Texas initiative and his

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<v Speaker 1>talking to officials in more than twenty four states about

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<v Speaker 1>creating similar programs. Brian, Welcome and thank you for joining

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<v Speaker 1>me on news World.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an honor to be with you, mister speaker. Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for hosting the conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you know you've been involved with looking for treatments

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<v Speaker 1>for opioid addiction for some time. Could you sort of

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<v Speaker 1>give us your background and how you got involved with

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<v Speaker 1>us well.

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<v Speaker 2>I was born and raised in the coal fields of Virginia,

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<v Speaker 2>about fifty miles each way from where Kentucky, North Carolina,

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<v Speaker 2>West Virginia, and Tennessee all come together. I'm the grandson

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<v Speaker 2>of coal miners, and I had a very idealized version

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<v Speaker 2>of American civics and history education. I went to undergrad

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<v Speaker 2>at George Mason and went to law school, where I

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<v Speaker 2>thought I was going to be equipped with all of

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<v Speaker 2>the tools necessary to defend truth justice in the American way.

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<v Speaker 2>By the end of that first semester in law school,

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<v Speaker 2>all of those dewey ad dreams and ambitions had been

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<v Speaker 2>crushed and destroyed before my very eyes. With an introduction

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<v Speaker 2>to the reality of law. I had a legal career

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<v Speaker 2>that spanned sixteen years, representing three of Kentucky's largest employers

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<v Speaker 2>in their workers' compensation litigation across the state. This litigation

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<v Speaker 2>occurred within a political patronage system that masqueraded as a

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<v Speaker 2>legal system that was the worker's compensation system at home.

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<v Speaker 2>These practice years coincided with the onset and explosion of

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<v Speaker 2>the opioid epidemic out of central and southern Apalachia, out

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<v Speaker 2>across the rest of the country, and within the context

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<v Speaker 2>of my law practice, I saw this insidious convergence of

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<v Speaker 2>personal injury trial lawyers and unscrupulous physicians who were family practitioners,

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<v Speaker 2>pain management physicians, and aggressive surgeons who looked for any

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<v Speaker 2>reason that they could to essentially cut on an individual

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<v Speaker 2>or to prescribe an individual high power and narcotics combined

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<v Speaker 2>with chotropic medications that in combination created immense physical dependency.

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<v Speaker 2>As I watched people move through this system in the

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<v Speaker 2>litigation process, they didn't come to the workers' comp system

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<v Speaker 2>in Kentucky disabled by virtue of their physical problems. They

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<v Speaker 2>certainly became disabled after they had gone through the round

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<v Speaker 2>of treatment, usually directed by their lawyer, that resulted in

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<v Speaker 2>what I would call pharmacological disability through the administration of

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<v Speaker 2>high parered opioids and other psychotropic medications which should never

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<v Speaker 2>have been applied to the individual circumstances. These practice years

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<v Speaker 2>ended in twenty sixteen, at which point in time I

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<v Speaker 2>was brought in to lead social security disability system for Kentucky.

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<v Speaker 2>I held that job for just about three years in

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<v Speaker 2>addition to the Chance support enforcement system, and then moved

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<v Speaker 2>into the Attorney General's office after my boss, then Governor

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<v Speaker 2>Matt Bethan, lost his bid for reelection in nineteen I

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<v Speaker 2>went to work for then Attorney General Daniel Cameron, running

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<v Speaker 2>the state's Office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Control and

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<v Speaker 2>within that law enforcement agency, which had as its job

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<v Speaker 2>the investigation and prosecution of all medical providers who defrauded

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<v Speaker 2>the Medicaid system, as well as the abuse, neglect, and

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<v Speaker 2>exploitation in Medicaid beneficiaries. I inherited a caseload that had

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<v Speaker 2>a substantial number of physicians who provide medically assistant treatment

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<v Speaker 2>for substanst dependency and in particular methadone and sebox oone,

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<v Speaker 2>essentially scamming the Medicaid system while simultaneously creating broad based

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<v Speaker 2>diversion of these medications, which are themselves opioids, in such

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<v Speaker 2>a fashion as to create as much opioid dependency as

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<v Speaker 2>responsible practitioners were trying to address with good faith and efficaciously. Qui,

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<v Speaker 2>Kentucky negotiated almost one billion dollars in settlement agreements from

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<v Speaker 2>opioid manufacturers and distributors. I was recruited to be the

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<v Speaker 2>first chairman and executive director of the State Commission that

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<v Speaker 2>would both disperse and oversee the administration of those dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>and mister Speaker, being the history extraordinary that you are,

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<v Speaker 2>Kentucky and Louisiana usually jockey for the distinct position of

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<v Speaker 2>having one of the most corrupt polities in the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Kentucky's state and local governance structures have, for as long

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<v Speaker 2>as anyone can remember, being infiltrated by what I would

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<v Speaker 2>describe as a very close circle of aristocratic interest that

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<v Speaker 2>seem much more vested in the perpetuation of the state's

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<v Speaker 2>problems than in solving them. So when I was asked

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<v Speaker 2>to do the job, I said, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a very treacherous opportunity because the usual suspects are going

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<v Speaker 2>to gather around this money and want to pick it clean.

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<v Speaker 2>If I'm going to do the job, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>do it in a way that is accountable, that is

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<v Speaker 2>accessible to the average Kentucky and it assures transparency as

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<v Speaker 2>to how every dollar is spent. We also have to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure we maximize the impact of these dollars. Recognizing

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<v Speaker 2>the immensity of the problem and the finite nature of

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<v Speaker 2>this resource, So the first most pressing need, in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>was to explore the possibility of setting aside a small

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<v Speaker 2>percentage of the state's settlement funds to foster a therapeutic

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<v Speaker 2>breakthrough for opioid dependency. The very best of our treatments

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<v Speaker 2>have about a twenty five percent efficacy rate, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>not nearly good enough to create the sort of generational

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<v Speaker 2>change that we need in what is now the thirtieth

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<v Speaker 2>year of a monstrous opioid epidemic. By virtue of having

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<v Speaker 2>followed scientific research around the potential breakthrough therapeutic response of

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<v Speaker 2>alcoholics to the psilocybin mushroom, I became independently curious about

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<v Speaker 2>those things that had been traditionally associated with the pejoratively

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<v Speaker 2>described psychedelic scene that originated in the late sixties counterculture,

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<v Speaker 2>and whether there could be actual, legitimate medical applications of

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<v Speaker 2>any of those therapeutics to opioid dependency. On July twenty nine,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two, I heard the word I have begain

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<v Speaker 2>for the very first time, and that touched off an intensive,

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<v Speaker 2>second full time job off the books, conducting all the

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<v Speaker 2>critical examination and due diligence research that I could to

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<v Speaker 2>determine whether the development of IB again through the creation

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<v Speaker 2>of a public private partnership under the Commission's auspices, could

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<v Speaker 2>be Kentucky's Manhattan Project opportunity to lead itself and the

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<v Speaker 2>rest of the country in a way that could revolutionize

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<v Speaker 2>substance use and mental health treatment. I became convinced that

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<v Speaker 2>I again represented that opportunity. Mai the thirty first, or

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, we announced that we were going to

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<v Speaker 2>explore the possibility of committing forty two million dollars, or

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of the state's total settlement dollars, to the

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<v Speaker 2>creation of a public private partnership that would get ib

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<v Speaker 2>again through the FDA as a breakthrough therapeutic for opioid dependency.

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<v Speaker 2>When that happened, what was a reaction, Well, there were

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<v Speaker 2>disparate reactions. One was the predictable response from the powers

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<v Speaker 2>that be that stood the most to lose from the

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<v Speaker 2>creation of a therapeutic that can deliver curative results in

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<v Speaker 2>place of those that are admitted ministered on the basis

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<v Speaker 2>of chronosity. We had immediate and vocal opposition from the

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<v Speaker 2>University of Kentucky, an institution which claims to be an

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<v Speaker 2>asprint Tier one public university research status, but nonetheless asserted

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<v Speaker 2>that the therapeutic options we have are the ones that

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<v Speaker 2>we should have. They're the best that there can ever be,

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<v Speaker 2>and there was no need to even go down this

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<v Speaker 2>audacious road. A shock and attitude from an institution that

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<v Speaker 2>is supposed to help drive open minded progress. The other

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<v Speaker 2>vocal upon it turned out to be current Kentucky Governor

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<v Speaker 2>Andy Basher. And as I'm sure you have followed this

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<v Speaker 2>guy as being talked about as a top tier candidate

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<v Speaker 2>for president for the Democrat Party in twenty twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 2>what your audience should know is that current Kentucky Governor

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<v Speaker 2>Andy Basheer and his father, former Kentucky Governor Steve Basheer,

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<v Speaker 2>worked at a law firm in Lexington, Kentucky, and were

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<v Speaker 2>partners there called Stints and Harveson. Stints and Harveison Act.

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<v Speaker 2>We represented Purdue Pharma in its litigation against the people

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<v Speaker 2>of Kentucky while Steve and Andy Bisher were partners at

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<v Speaker 2>that law firm. So, in addition to the University of Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 2>Andy Basher came out moments after we completed our public

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<v Speaker 2>announcement and gave his full throated opposition to our intention

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<v Speaker 2>to go down this road. The heartening portion of this

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<v Speaker 2>related to the grassroots response of the people of Kentucky

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<v Speaker 2>to the possibility of the state leading the creation of

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<v Speaker 2>a therapeutic breakthrough for a problem that families and communities

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<v Speaker 2>in Kentucky had borne the ground zero brunt of for

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years. Leading up to this announcement, I had taken

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<v Speaker 2>the Commission across the state. We held twenty individual town

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<v Speaker 2>halls from one end of the state to the other

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<v Speaker 2>on Tuesday nights at six pm, and these things would

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<v Speaker 2>go anywhere between eight forty five oh whip to ten

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<v Speaker 2>o'clock at night immediately following the opening of society from

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<v Speaker 2>the COVID lockdowns that were harshly imposed by Andy Bisheer.

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<v Speaker 2>Each of these community meetings began with a fifteen minute

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<v Speaker 2>technocratic presentation around what the Commission's role was and help

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<v Speaker 2>it do its job, followed by solicitation of the community's

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<v Speaker 2>feedback as to how we needed to prioritize their needs

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<v Speaker 2>before we disperse this money and mister Speaker, what would

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<v Speaker 2>follow our fifteen minute technocratic presentation was a collective outpourt

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<v Speaker 2>of community catharsis and grief that illuminated a degree of

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<v Speaker 2>devastation that had been wronged by this problem that was

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<v Speaker 2>foreign even to me, someone who had come to the

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<v Speaker 2>table educated about the monstrosities produced by the opioid epidemic.

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<v Speaker 2>The sun total of our community responses were, we have

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<v Speaker 2>no confidence in the ability of officialdom to address our

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<v Speaker 2>despair in a way that is either competent or honest.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you managed to do anything for our community

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<v Speaker 2>that produces any constructive progress whatsoever, it will be a

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<v Speaker 2>shock to us. So, recognizing that there was profound public

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<v Speaker 2>cynicism and distrust of officialdom, there was great disappointment in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of how the existing therapies had failed to yield

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<v Speaker 2>progress that had been promised as they were deployed. We

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<v Speaker 2>found a receptive audience within this deeply politically conservative and

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<v Speaker 2>religiously fundamentalist state, among everyday Kentuckians, about the creation of

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<v Speaker 2>a new therapy that could not just sustain someone in

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<v Speaker 2>their suffering though prevent them from Diane, which is what

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<v Speaker 2>I would describe as our current options, but could literally

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<v Speaker 2>create a genuine emancipation medication that has the potential to

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<v Speaker 2>fully physiologically restore the brains of opioid dependent individuals impaired

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<v Speaker 2>by that long term use, and to do so in

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<v Speaker 2>a way that comprehensibly addresses the whole human mind, body,

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<v Speaker 2>and soul. And I am convinced that had we been

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<v Speaker 2>allowed to have this as a public referendum California style

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<v Speaker 2>rather than through a very mechanized process of government matriculation,

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<v Speaker 2>that proposal would have won in Kentucky sixty to forty

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<v Speaker 2>and by any measure that was landslide grassroots support. And

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<v Speaker 2>that is something that I would stand on like a

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<v Speaker 2>rock of Gibraltar in terms of the reality on the ground.

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<v Speaker 1>Since you could not go to a referendum, how did

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<v Speaker 1>the political system react to your idea of finding a permanent,

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<v Speaker 1>long term cure.

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<v Speaker 2>I would describe the interest as one of open minded reserve.

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<v Speaker 2>The legislature, which is controlled by Republicans and has been

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<v Speaker 2>for some time, did not make any move to interfere

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<v Speaker 2>with the prerogative of the Commission to explore the deployment

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<v Speaker 2>of recurses for this purpose. And again, the only vocal

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<v Speaker 2>opposition that we drew was from the University of Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 2>who had a representative on the Commission who protested throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the process as well as Adie Basher, whose Health and

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<v Speaker 2>Human Services secretary. A guy by the name of Eric

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<v Speaker 2>Friedlander was on the commission and was also consistently opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to every forward step that we made in this direction.

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<v Speaker 1>To go back to the basics from it. You know

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<v Speaker 1>so much more than I do. What exactly is eyebo game?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a game is a naturally occurring alkaloid that is

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<v Speaker 2>found in three West African plants, The one that grows

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<v Speaker 2>in most plentiful amounts the Congo africana. The mother plant

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<v Speaker 2>is called the Ebogar route. It has been used by

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<v Speaker 2>the Bowedi culture in West Africa for centuries as part

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<v Speaker 2>of its cultural and spiritual traditions. In the mid sixties,

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<v Speaker 2>a gentleman by the name of Howard Lotzov, who had

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<v Speaker 2>been a long term heroin addict, came into contact without again,

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<v Speaker 2>and he took it because he was just a substance

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<v Speaker 2>use omnivore. After he went through the experience, he came

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<v Speaker 2>out on the other side with zero desire to consume

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<v Speaker 2>heroin and as consequentially, zero withdraw experience. This touched off

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<v Speaker 2>fifty years of open labeled field study that's generated data

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<v Speaker 2>that's decades wide in a mountain high that establishes that

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<v Speaker 2>ibegate has profound addiction interruption properties that are unparalleled within

0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.400
<v Speaker 2>our existent pharmacology.

0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>A year ago, in twenty twenty four, Nature Medicine published

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 1>a study that showed remarkable results with military veterans with

0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>traumatic brain injuries, and I began, can you walk us

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:12.840
<v Speaker 1>through that? From her?

0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, sir? As American war fighters, in particular special operators

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:24.680
<v Speaker 2>were coming home with the traumas of war, psychological and physical.

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 2>They matriculated through a veterans administration that had at its

0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:35.960
<v Speaker 2>disposal all of the big pharma synthetic pharmacology that's known

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:41.520
<v Speaker 2>to everyone opioids, for paying SSRIs for mood disorders. As

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.920
<v Speaker 2>veterans matriculated through these processes and received these medications, none

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.080
<v Speaker 2>of them were nearly adequate enough to address their trauma,

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.480
<v Speaker 2>in particular the physiological trauma of traumatic brain injury. Many

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>of these veterans, as they contemplated taking their own lives,

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 2>heard about this qu exotic substance called ibagain that was

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 2>being administered in Mexico, and a lot of veterans began,

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>just through word of mouth to compare notes through scenarios

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.560
<v Speaker 2>whereby veterans who were ready to detect their lives had

0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 2>been sent for ibogain treatment and that on the other

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 2>side of that treatment they came away with genuinely miraculous

0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 2>results in terms of the restoration of their sense of self,

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.280
<v Speaker 2>a restoration of their sense of the will to live,

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and a restoration of their mind that allowed them to

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 2>function at a level that they had not been able

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 2>to function with After they returned home. Not only were

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>they restored, but they were freed from their need to

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 2>utilize any of the pharmacology that had been given to

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 2>them by the VHA as.

0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.760
<v Speaker 1>I understand that Rick Perry, who's a very close friend

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 1>of mine and a very dedicated patriot, actually ran into

0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>ib again through a Navy seal that he had met

0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 1>at Cornetto Island while on vacation with his wife, and

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:04.679
<v Speaker 1>somehow the ibegan story began to arrive in Texas, and

0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.639
<v Speaker 1>now Texas, which is our second biggest seat, is actually

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.679
<v Speaker 1>in the process of passing bills that focus on the

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.880
<v Speaker 1>use of Iyebergang in helping veterans and others. That's really

0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>quite remarkable, isn't it.

0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it is an unbelievable story that, with all due respect,

0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 2>I happened to believe illustrates the presence of the divine

0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.720
<v Speaker 2>hand in the construction of the reality you've just described.

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Governor Perry came into independent and separate contact with ibagain

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.160
<v Speaker 2>through his friendship with Marcus Lttrell, and many of your

0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.000
<v Speaker 2>audience members may recognize as the loan survivor whose story

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.640
<v Speaker 2>was told in a movie in which he was depicted

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 2>by Mark Wahlberg. Governor Perry and I converged on the

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Kentucky project. I met him for the first time in

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.280
<v Speaker 2>June of twenty three. He supported the Kentucky effort as

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>it was developed, recorded a message in support of it,

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and was a coose deign on a newsweek of ed Only.

0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.040
<v Speaker 2>She was joined by Congressional Medal of Honor winner Dakota Meyer,

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Marcus and Morgan Littreel supporting the Kentucky Initiative. The Kentucky

0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Initiative came to an end due to a change in

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.640
<v Speaker 2>the office of Attorney General. The new Attorney General, who

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.119
<v Speaker 2>was elected in November of twenty three, summoned me to

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.160
<v Speaker 2>a meeting in December and said, I want no part

0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 2>of this and I don't agree with anything you've done

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>around it, and I want your resignation before I take office.

0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.199
<v Speaker 2>So I was very much in despire over the lost

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.280
<v Speaker 2>opportunity for the state and was desperate to find fertile

0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 2>soul in which that project could be transplanted. And I

0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 2>have to thank God for the connection made to Governor Perry,

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.399
<v Speaker 2>because it was that connection that allowed the creation of

0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.600
<v Speaker 2>circumstances by which Texas has now finished a job that

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 2>was begun in Kentucky over two years ago.

0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Joas, what exactly is the Texas program?

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.120
<v Speaker 2>So the Texas I began initiative is now the successful

0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.840
<v Speaker 2>completion of a left legislative campaign by which the state

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.159
<v Speaker 2>legislature has put up fifty million dollars to fund a

0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:12.160
<v Speaker 2>public private partnership whereby a consortium of one or more

0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 2>universities paired with one or more private hospital systems paired

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 2>with a single drug developer will submit their proposals in

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 2>response to a competitive application and review process to come

0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:30.880
<v Speaker 2>into Texas to conduct FDA drug development trials with ib

0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.960
<v Speaker 2>again as a breakthrough therapeutic for substance use disorder. Texas

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:40.560
<v Speaker 2>money will pay for the cost of FDA trials conducted

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.159
<v Speaker 2>in Texas by the drug developer, paired with drug Developer's

0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:48.400
<v Speaker 2>own independent contribution of fifty million dollars through that consortium,

0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 2>it is the largest single public investment in psychedelic research

0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.679
<v Speaker 2>and medical development in history, and in particular as it

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:04.240
<v Speaker 2>relates to eyeba gain, it represents a significant shift of

0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.560
<v Speaker 2>public policy when it comes to the recognition of the

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 2>need to develop restorative therapeutics that can have the potential,

0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.920
<v Speaker 2>in this case, to revolutionize substance use mental health, as

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.520
<v Speaker 2>well as treatment of neurological conditions that impact the brain

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.480
<v Speaker 2>for which we have no good answers.

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 1>As I understand it. The Veterans Administration Secretary Doug Collins

0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>has also indicated that they are open to exploring the

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.320
<v Speaker 1>impact of psychedelics on helping veterans.

0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:38.199
<v Speaker 2>Secretary Collins has expressed his support for the delivery of

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 2>medicines that can improve upon what we have. Those happen

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.439
<v Speaker 2>to be in some cases psychedelic, and it's wonderful to

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.360
<v Speaker 2>see leadership that's open minded and willing to pursue progress

0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:50.400
<v Speaker 2>wherever it exists.

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 1>Do you have any notion if ibergame began to be

0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 1>used broadly, what its cost structure would be like iming

0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:00.439
<v Speaker 1>how hard is it news?

0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:07.119
<v Speaker 2>The actual synthesis process necessary to produce IYE again is

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:12.159
<v Speaker 2>not particularly expensive. Being able to establish a domestic supply

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 2>chain for the medication that's not going to be necessarily expensive.

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I BEGIN is a very serious medication that comes with

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.680
<v Speaker 2>a particular cardiac risk that can result in arrhythmia, which

0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.480
<v Speaker 2>can result in the stoppage of the heart. It must

0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>be delivered within a clinically controlled medical set and complete

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:39.200
<v Speaker 2>with cardiac screening, cardiac monitor and the administration of medication

0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.919
<v Speaker 2>that can correct in arrhythmia if it occurs. The number

0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 2>we have to beat, mister speaker is there's two numbers,

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.480
<v Speaker 2>and those numbers are one hundred and eight thousand dollars

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 2>and one hundred and twenty days. When we have an

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 2>individual who goes in for substance abuse treatment now and

0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.360
<v Speaker 2>they happen to be on Medicaid, the first thirty days

0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.760
<v Speaker 2>of impatient treatment is designed just to stabilize them enough

0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:07.240
<v Speaker 2>to then go into a ninety day intensive outpatient protocol

0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to ensure that they are compliant with their treatment plan,

0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:15.600
<v Speaker 2>which involves either methadone or suboxone. At first thirty days

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:19.439
<v Speaker 2>of impatient treatment in twenty twenty two Kentucky Medicaid dollars

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:22.760
<v Speaker 2>is thirty six thousand dollars. The next ninety days of

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:27.399
<v Speaker 2>intensive outpatient treatment is seventy two thousand dollars. The average

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:30.160
<v Speaker 2>number of attempts a person will make to go through

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>this system is five. So if we are able to

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.520
<v Speaker 2>deliver a ten day inpatient treatment of ibagain that essentially

0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>restores an individual's brain to the condition that it was

0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>in before they ever consumed the first opioid, and do

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 2>so at a price point that is below a half

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:57.400
<v Speaker 2>a million dollars, then the opportunity to achieve immense actuarial

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.879
<v Speaker 2>savings over time is tremendous, and i begain is just

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 2>a beginning, not an end. Many states cannot supply long

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.800
<v Speaker 2>term recovery services because of how much resource burden there

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 2>is on that first one hundred and twenty days of

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:18.320
<v Speaker 2>treatment just to produce individual stabilization. With IYEB again, we

0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.439
<v Speaker 2>have a chance to substantially improve acute treatment outcomes in

0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:26.120
<v Speaker 2>a ways that save substantial amounts of money and can

0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.720
<v Speaker 2>redeploy resources to create long term recovery infrastructure. It's vital

0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>to maintain long term independent recovery.

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:38.240
<v Speaker 1>So if somebody goes through the ibogain process, to what

0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 1>degree are they likely to be cleaned for the rest

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 1>of their life? And to what degree is there a

0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 1>real danger of buck sliding?

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Ibergain produces the very best beginning for an individual's recovery

0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>journey that can be delivered by the medical universe. And

0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:00.480
<v Speaker 2>by that I mean an opioid dependent individual their brain

0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 2>can't produce dopamine in serotonin. These are the chemicals that

0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:08.280
<v Speaker 2>drive all of our most baseline human instincts. The drivet to eat,

0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:11.960
<v Speaker 2>to drink, to fight, to fight, and procreate. Those are

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:16.040
<v Speaker 2>all driven by serotonin and dopamine. So when a person

0:24:16.080 --> 0:24:19.000
<v Speaker 2>is deprived of their drug supply and they engage in

0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:22.840
<v Speaker 2>what appears to be behavior that is criminally depraved, who

0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 2>are actually observing of the consequences of a profound neurochemical

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>brain injury, that is, to brain starvation for dopamine and serotonin.

0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.200
<v Speaker 2>A person has to be completely abstinate from all opioid

0:24:34.240 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 2>consumption for at least eighteen months in order for the

0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 2>brain to begin to produce its own dopamine and serotonin.

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:45.360
<v Speaker 2>With IEB again, you take that eighteen months, and you

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.639
<v Speaker 2>reduce it to thirty six to forty eight hours. And

0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 2>by that I mean eighty percent of individuals who get

0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a single treatment have their brains dopamine and serotonin levels

0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:02.280
<v Speaker 2>restored to their pre opioid levels within thirty six to

0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 2>forty eight hours, thereby eliminating the entire withdraw experience and

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:12.159
<v Speaker 2>creating a genuine physiological restoration of the impaired brain. Now

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:16.560
<v Speaker 2>that is the beginning. Just like any other treatment, an

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.360
<v Speaker 2>individual whose life has been shattered by the consequences of addiction,

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:27.159
<v Speaker 2>who faces a host of legal, financial, logistical, and social problems,

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 2>must receive long term recovery support to help solve each

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 2>of those problems. Because if we take an individual and

0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>just throw them back into the mailstream of a catastrophe,

0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 2>the chances of relapse with any treatment are substantially high.

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I would add one other component, and that is the

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:50.800
<v Speaker 2>spiritual aspect of I Be Again experience. Many people who

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:54.639
<v Speaker 2>receive this medication, even people who are not believers in

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:59.359
<v Speaker 2>a higher power, come away with an absolute, concrete affirmation

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>that they are a spiritual being and that there is

0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:07.119
<v Speaker 2>a higher power in this universe who possesses almighty and

0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>unconditional love for them. That is, for me, I begain's

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 2>most potent attribute. And when you offer that foundation of

0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>spiritual significance within the context of medical treatment, you significantly

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:26.439
<v Speaker 2>enhance the chances for long term success, especially if paired

0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.240
<v Speaker 2>with the treatment system that will be supportive of that

0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>individual as they make that reconstruction journey.

0:26:32.680 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm very curious what the interactions are in your brain

0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:40.479
<v Speaker 1>that enable you to shrink what could be an eighteen

0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:44.320
<v Speaker 1>month process into a forty eight or seventy two hour process.

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:48.840
<v Speaker 1>What is actually chemically so different from this experience.

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 2>You are asking, mister speaker a question that pertains to

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 2>what I have been educated to know as the mechanism

0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of action. What is it that it does with the

0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 2>in the brain to generate these results? And the answer

0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:07.760
<v Speaker 2>to that is no one knows. One of the reasons

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:12.560
<v Speaker 2>the Stanford study was undertaken was to determine whether there

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:17.600
<v Speaker 2>were objectively identifiable changes within the brain to explain these

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:21.960
<v Speaker 2>dramatic subjective reports of total remission of what had been

0:27:22.560 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 2>years long suicidality, treatment resistant depression, and anxiety, as well

0:27:27.359 --> 0:27:30.720
<v Speaker 2>as functional impairments related to dramatic brain injury. And this

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:36.560
<v Speaker 2>is really where the revolutionary nature of this becomes concrete.

0:27:36.800 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 2>MRI's were taken of thirty veterans before and after a

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 2>single eyebigain treatment. Each veteran had dramatic brain injury, which

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 2>was radiographically expressed as dead spots within functional MRI images

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:56.280
<v Speaker 2>black dots throughout the brain. Post i begain treatment, MRIs

0:27:56.320 --> 0:28:00.959
<v Speaker 2>demonstrated for realities. One, there was to come complete elimination

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 2>of those black dots through the brains of these veterans.

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Number two, the white matter that covers the surface of

0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:10.560
<v Speaker 2>our brains, the highway across which all of our thoughts

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:13.679
<v Speaker 2>and impulses travel, grew in thickened in size across the

0:28:13.840 --> 0:28:16.800
<v Speaker 2>entire surface of their brains. The centers of the brains

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:22.160
<v Speaker 2>responsible for emotional regulation and executive function grew in size.

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>The average reversal of brain age among the cohort of

0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 2>thirty veterans is one and a half years, with the

0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:32.160
<v Speaker 2>top five seeing their brains reverse in age by almost

0:28:32.200 --> 0:28:36.160
<v Speaker 2>five years. There are individuals who are receiving eye begain

0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>treatment to keep their symptoms of Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, and

0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 2>lame disease in remission. I cannot overstate the dramatic nature

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>of these results because there is nothing known to modern

0:28:49.680 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>medicine that actually regenerates the brain. Ibagain does and we

0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:57.920
<v Speaker 2>are just on the very front end of recognizing that

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:02.720
<v Speaker 2>this has the potential to revolutionize Western medicine when it

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.520
<v Speaker 2>comes to anything and everything related to the brain.

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:09.120
<v Speaker 1>The study you're describing was done at Stanford, Yes, sir,

0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 1>so people can find it. Has anybody tried applying I

0:29:13.000 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 1>begain to Alzheimer's.

0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:20.760
<v Speaker 2>That has not been done, But given that neuro regenerative

0:29:20.840 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 2>property that has been described, there's good reason to believe,

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:28.880
<v Speaker 2>particularly with early detection, that I begin can yield a

0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 2>significant improvement in the treatment of it, even if it

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:35.560
<v Speaker 2>does not necessarily cure it. And is anyone with a

0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:39.920
<v Speaker 2>family member with dimension knows every additional day of good

0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.160
<v Speaker 2>life that you can give someone who suffers from it

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.680
<v Speaker 2>is a wonderful treasure. And I certainly believe that we

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:47.400
<v Speaker 2>can see that.

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:08.200
<v Speaker 1>This could be an astonishing breakthrough in what has been

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 1>a long losing struggle with addiction across this country. Now,

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:16.000
<v Speaker 1>does it have the same effect, for example, and people

0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:19.280
<v Speaker 1>have cocaine or fentanyl or other kinds of addictions, or

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:23.360
<v Speaker 1>only on people who've been taking pharmacological addiction.

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Ibigain is an all purpose addiction interrupt The focus of

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:33.720
<v Speaker 2>scientific research has been upon opioid dependency, because that's for

0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>its point of discovery was initially made. However, right now,

0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 2>I was just on a call with a gentleman by

0:30:41.280 --> 0:30:44.880
<v Speaker 2>the name of doctor Bruno S. Muschin, who in the

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:48.560
<v Speaker 2>state of South Paulo is a singular provider who uses

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:53.880
<v Speaker 2>ibigain to interrupt addiction to crack cocaine, which is on

0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:57.000
<v Speaker 2>scale of use comparable to what we have here in

0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 2>the United States by way of opioid epidemic. Affective with opioids,

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:04.680
<v Speaker 2>it's affective with cocaine and crack cocaine. It is effective

0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:08.320
<v Speaker 2>with alcohol, it is effective with myth. And what's so

0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:12.960
<v Speaker 2>immensely important about that is there is not a single

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>medication of any kind that has any effective impact on

0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:24.040
<v Speaker 2>meth whatsoever. So you are correct. The opportunity to revolutionize

0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:28.360
<v Speaker 2>addiction treatment with this therapeutic it is immense Well.

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:33.160
<v Speaker 1>It strikes me that the whole Make America Healthy Again movement,

0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:37.160
<v Speaker 1>that this could be a very significant building block and

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 1>getting us back to being a country that's not addicted.

0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:45.280
<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine a more timely podcast than to be

0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 1>talking with you about this.

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Once serendipity becomes a pattern, it is no longer serendipitous.

0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:57.040
<v Speaker 2>And as I have become individually educated about the genesis

0:31:57.080 --> 0:32:01.240
<v Speaker 2>of MAHA, its foundational roots, and how all these individuals

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 2>with different experiences but with common themes have converged, it

0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:10.760
<v Speaker 2>is surreal insofar as Governor Perry and I have participated

0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:15.080
<v Speaker 2>around this issue and can bring it to a MAHA

0:32:15.120 --> 0:32:20.400
<v Speaker 2>movement that is absolutely bent in the direction a free

0:32:20.440 --> 0:32:24.960
<v Speaker 2>an American society from the exploitation and monetization of human

0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 2>suffering than we are all in.

0:32:27.800 --> 0:32:31.040
<v Speaker 1>As I understand of both Mexico and New Zealand are

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.640
<v Speaker 1>using I began already, what's their experience like.

0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 2>So you have clinics in Mexico, most of which have

0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:42.800
<v Speaker 2>been set up by Canadian or American expats who have

0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>recognized and know what this can do. The overseas treatment

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:52.120
<v Speaker 2>infrastructure is very much a checkerboard of quality. You have

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>some who know exactly what they're doing and they do

0:32:54.720 --> 0:32:58.080
<v Speaker 2>it right, and then you have others who are playing

0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 2>with fire. New Zealand as infrastructure buyer, but it is

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:06.480
<v Speaker 2>not at scale, so The opportunity that is presented with

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Texas is to create that beachhead for eyebagame within the

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:15.240
<v Speaker 2>United States and to demonstrate how you do it safely, efficaciously,

0:33:15.680 --> 0:33:18.320
<v Speaker 2>and at scale so as to make sure that there

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:21.959
<v Speaker 2>is the provision of access to anyone who needs it.

0:33:22.400 --> 0:33:25.240
<v Speaker 2>And given how much money that we are spending on

0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:28.840
<v Speaker 2>a seventy five percent failure rate, I can't imagine that

0:33:28.920 --> 0:33:31.480
<v Speaker 2>there's any reason why, if we are honest and transparent

0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:34.480
<v Speaker 2>about how we do this, that we can't assure universal

0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:37.880
<v Speaker 2>access in a way that takes a significant burden off

0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:41.320
<v Speaker 2>of our systems and families that suffer without effective atures.

0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 1>We currently have a sick care system when we need

0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 1>a healthcare system and the goal ask to me to

0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:50.640
<v Speaker 1>get you back to health, not to maintain you in sickness.

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:53.640
<v Speaker 1>And this strikes me as a perfect example of that.

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 1>This is very, very exciting to me. What do you

0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 1>think is the possibility that I began, we'll actually get

0:33:59.920 --> 0:34:03.000
<v Speaker 1>approval from the FDA.

0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:05.200
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that we did in Kentucky was

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:08.200
<v Speaker 2>conducted a hearing on this very question and within that

0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 2>here and we had two FDA officials at the time,

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:15.040
<v Speaker 2>one was the scientist General for Controlled Substances Research, and

0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:17.959
<v Speaker 2>the other was a member of the FDA's Advisory Board

0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:22.400
<v Speaker 2>of Neuropharmacology. Through their testimony, they expressed the fact that

0:34:22.440 --> 0:34:26.400
<v Speaker 2>for the FDA, question around ibogain is whether those risks

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 2>that are attendant with its administration, the cardiac risk can

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 2>be safely mitigated. And as long as I answer that

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 2>question was yes, there's no reason why the FDA would

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 2>not approve hybergain treatment. Now I'll go one step further

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>within the psychedelic universe. The reality is, with many of

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 2>these medications, there is a notorious history of recreational use

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:52.760
<v Speaker 2>within left wing dregculture that has created a significant amount

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:58.080
<v Speaker 2>of stigma around our application to legitimate medical conditions. Ib

0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:02.439
<v Speaker 2>again is blessed with no h hiss of recreational use

0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:05.759
<v Speaker 2>in the arcana of American memory, because it's not a

0:35:05.800 --> 0:35:10.279
<v Speaker 2>recreational substance. It's a very serious medication. For everything that

0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:14.400
<v Speaker 2>has a recreational application, there's a significant street economy, whether

0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>that's cocaine, whether it's heroin, you name it. If there

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:20.440
<v Speaker 2>could be fun with it, there's a street economy for it.

0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>There is no street economy without again, the out again

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:27.839
<v Speaker 2>experience is very physically challenging, and it's not one that

0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:30.839
<v Speaker 2>people seek out, and that's why people have never heard

0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 2>of an ibogain rave that don't exist. That lack of

0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:41.279
<v Speaker 2>recreational abuse potential, I think is a significant strategic advantage

0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:46.879
<v Speaker 2>ibogain has, in addition to its very unique neuro regenerative

0:35:46.960 --> 0:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>properties that we're just now beginning to understand.

0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.280
<v Speaker 1>I would think, and I'd make this argument very strongly,

0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:55.799
<v Speaker 1>to the degree that you're describing these successes and to

0:35:55.840 --> 0:35:59.240
<v Speaker 1>the degree that we've seen, for example, with traumatic brain injury,

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:04.440
<v Speaker 1>these successes, the FDA has to balance risk against certainty.

0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 1>If you have a traumatic brain injury and we don't

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:11.480
<v Speaker 1>give you something at guiba gain, you will permanently have

0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that injury. Therefore, there's a downside to not taking the

0:36:15.960 --> 0:36:19.560
<v Speaker 1>risk of in a controlled environment, being aware of the

0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>heart concerns, trying to see if we can't give you your

0:36:22.360 --> 0:36:27.720
<v Speaker 1>life back. What can listeners do to support the mission

0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:31.760
<v Speaker 1>of Americans forible gain or to get involved in advancing

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:33.400
<v Speaker 1>access to new treatments.

0:36:34.600 --> 0:36:40.799
<v Speaker 2>Sir, As you know, any successful shift in American politics,

0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:45.440
<v Speaker 2>it's downstream from a shift that occurs in culture. And

0:36:45.880 --> 0:36:48.799
<v Speaker 2>what I would ask your listeners to do is go

0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:54.960
<v Speaker 2>to americansfibagain dot org. It has an Instagram presence. Governor

0:36:55.000 --> 0:36:57.160
<v Speaker 2>Perry and I recognize that there's one of two ways

0:36:57.200 --> 0:37:01.120
<v Speaker 2>that you win culture and thereby impact politics. You can

0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.640
<v Speaker 2>either do it through the broad based dispersal of money,

0:37:04.719 --> 0:37:07.880
<v Speaker 2>which we don't have, or you do it through the

0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:14.840
<v Speaker 2>broad based dispersal of eliminating information that can activate, galvanize,

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and motivate a broad based cultural movement to advance progress.

0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:24.319
<v Speaker 2>We aim to shepherd a broad based unity opportunity that

0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:27.600
<v Speaker 2>involves the creation of a diverse coalition with the common

0:37:27.719 --> 0:37:32.399
<v Speaker 2>value of seeing this emancipation medication be fully integrated into

0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:36.239
<v Speaker 2>the US healthcare system as expeditiously as possible. This is

0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:39.759
<v Speaker 2>the Manhattan Project of our time, and anyone who is

0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:43.279
<v Speaker 2>hearing about this, I would encourage them to engage the organization,

0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.560
<v Speaker 2>follow on social media, get the word out as to

0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:49.439
<v Speaker 2>what this is and what it can do to lift

0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:52.760
<v Speaker 2>up those who are living at the end of hope,

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 2>and as we move into other states starting in January

0:37:56.160 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of twenty six, leverage those networks of voices to make

0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>clear that we are going to demand responsive leadership that

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:09.320
<v Speaker 2>supports the integration of appagain into the US healthcare system

0:38:09.360 --> 0:38:11.160
<v Speaker 2>as expeditiously as possible.

0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:15.120
<v Speaker 1>I can assure you, Brian, I'm so inspired by this

0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:20.440
<v Speaker 1>conversation that I'm personally going to be strongly engaged in

0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:23.080
<v Speaker 1>moving the idea around and getting people to look at it.

0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:26.600
<v Speaker 1>You're really doing something which will, over the next generation,

0:38:27.120 --> 0:38:29.720
<v Speaker 1>save several million lives. It's amazing.

0:38:31.360 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, sir, and just to know that you are

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:38.760
<v Speaker 2>willing to engage as you describe. As I said before

0:38:38.800 --> 0:38:41.240
<v Speaker 2>we got online, I've been an admirer of few years

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:44.440
<v Speaker 2>for a very long time, and Governor Praier and I

0:38:44.760 --> 0:38:49.120
<v Speaker 2>welcome your enthusiastic participation in whatever way you want to

0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:49.520
<v Speaker 2>give it.

0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Good Well, listen, I want to thank you for joining

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.320
<v Speaker 1>me in giving all of us a insight on ibogain

0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 1>and its potential for treatments. And I want to let

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 1>our listeners know they can find out more about Americans

0:39:01.160 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 1>for Ibogain by visiting your website at americansfibogain dot org,

0:39:06.400 --> 0:39:08.839
<v Speaker 1>which will also be on our show page. So thank

0:39:08.880 --> 0:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>you so much for drawing.

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.200
<v Speaker 2>Us, Missus Baker. It's been an honor and a privileged

0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:14.919
<v Speaker 2>thank you, sir.

0:39:18.239 --> 0:39:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to my guest w Bryan Hubbard. You can

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:24.440
<v Speaker 1>learn more about Americans for Ibogain on our show page

0:39:24.600 --> 0:39:27.759
<v Speaker 1>at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by Gainglish three

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:32.680
<v Speaker 1>sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our

0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was

0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.880
<v Speaker 1>created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team with

0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Ginglish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope

0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:48.680
<v Speaker 1>five stars and give us a review so others can

0:39:48.760 --> 0:39:51.759
<v Speaker 1>learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of news

0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 1>World can sign up for my three free weekly columns

0:39:55.600 --> 0:39:59.720
<v Speaker 1>at ginglistree sixty dot com slash newsletter I'm new Gingrich.

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:03.720
<v Speaker 1>This is news Walk