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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld. On June fourteenth, Governor Greg

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Speaker 1: Abbott of Texas approved legislation to spend fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: in state money researching Ibogain, a powerful psychedelic In signing

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Speaker 1: the legislation, he put a spotlight on a drug that

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Speaker 1: is still illegal but that has shown promise in treating

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Speaker 1: opioid addiction, traumatic brain injury, and depression. The initiat is

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Speaker 1: one of the largest government investments in psychedelic medicine to date.

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Speaker 1: Interest in ibergain therapy has gained momentum in recent years,

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Speaker 1: driven in large part by veterans who had to travel

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Speaker 1: to other countries for treatment and studies showing the success

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Speaker 1: of the treatment. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest,

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Speaker 1: w Bryan Hubbard, executive director of Americans for Ibogain. He

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Speaker 1: was a driving force behind the Texas initiative and his

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Speaker 1: talking to officials in more than twenty four states about

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Speaker 1: creating similar programs. Brian, Welcome and thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: me on news World.

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Speaker 2: It's an honor to be with you, mister speaker. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for hosting the conversation.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know you've been involved with looking for treatments

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Speaker 1: for opioid addiction for some time. Could you sort of

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Speaker 1: give us your background and how you got involved with

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Speaker 1: us well.

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Speaker 2: I was born and raised in the coal fields of Virginia,

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Speaker 2: about fifty miles each way from where Kentucky, North Carolina,

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Speaker 2: West Virginia, and Tennessee all come together. I'm the grandson

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Speaker 2: of coal miners, and I had a very idealized version

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Speaker 2: of American civics and history education. I went to undergrad

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Speaker 2: at George Mason and went to law school, where I

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Speaker 2: thought I was going to be equipped with all of

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Speaker 2: the tools necessary to defend truth justice in the American way.

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Speaker 2: By the end of that first semester in law school,

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Speaker 2: all of those dewey ad dreams and ambitions had been

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Speaker 2: crushed and destroyed before my very eyes. With an introduction

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Speaker 2: to the reality of law. I had a legal career

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Speaker 2: that spanned sixteen years, representing three of Kentucky's largest employers

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Speaker 2: in their workers' compensation litigation across the state. This litigation

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Speaker 2: occurred within a political patronage system that masqueraded as a

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Speaker 2: legal system that was the worker's compensation system at home.

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Speaker 2: These practice years coincided with the onset and explosion of

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Speaker 2: the opioid epidemic out of central and southern Apalachia, out

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Speaker 2: across the rest of the country, and within the context

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Speaker 2: of my law practice, I saw this insidious convergence of

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Speaker 2: personal injury trial lawyers and unscrupulous physicians who were family practitioners,

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Speaker 2: pain management physicians, and aggressive surgeons who looked for any

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Speaker 2: reason that they could to essentially cut on an individual

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Speaker 2: or to prescribe an individual high power and narcotics combined

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Speaker 2: with chotropic medications that in combination created immense physical dependency.

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Speaker 2: As I watched people move through this system in the

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Speaker 2: litigation process, they didn't come to the workers' comp system

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Speaker 2: in Kentucky disabled by virtue of their physical problems. They

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Speaker 2: certainly became disabled after they had gone through the round

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Speaker 2: of treatment, usually directed by their lawyer, that resulted in

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Speaker 2: what I would call pharmacological disability through the administration of

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Speaker 2: high parered opioids and other psychotropic medications which should never

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Speaker 2: have been applied to the individual circumstances. These practice years

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Speaker 2: ended in twenty sixteen, at which point in time I

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Speaker 2: was brought in to lead social security disability system for Kentucky.

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Speaker 2: I held that job for just about three years in

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Speaker 2: addition to the Chance support enforcement system, and then moved

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Speaker 2: into the Attorney General's office after my boss, then Governor

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Speaker 2: Matt Bethan, lost his bid for reelection in nineteen I

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Speaker 2: went to work for then Attorney General Daniel Cameron, running

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Speaker 2: the state's Office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse Control and

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Speaker 2: within that law enforcement agency, which had as its job

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Speaker 2: the investigation and prosecution of all medical providers who defrauded

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Speaker 2: the Medicaid system, as well as the abuse, neglect, and

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Speaker 2: exploitation in Medicaid beneficiaries. I inherited a caseload that had

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Speaker 2: a substantial number of physicians who provide medically assistant treatment

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Speaker 2: for substanst dependency and in particular methadone and sebox oone,

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Speaker 2: essentially scamming the Medicaid system while simultaneously creating broad based

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Speaker 2: diversion of these medications, which are themselves opioids, in such

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Speaker 2: a fashion as to create as much opioid dependency as

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Speaker 2: responsible practitioners were trying to address with good faith and efficaciously. Qui,

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Speaker 2: Kentucky negotiated almost one billion dollars in settlement agreements from

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Speaker 2: opioid manufacturers and distributors. I was recruited to be the

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Speaker 2: first chairman and executive director of the State Commission that

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Speaker 2: would both disperse and oversee the administration of those dollars,

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Speaker 2: and mister Speaker, being the history extraordinary that you are,

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Speaker 2: Kentucky and Louisiana usually jockey for the distinct position of

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Speaker 2: having one of the most corrupt polities in the country.

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Speaker 2: Kentucky's state and local governance structures have, for as long

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Speaker 2: as anyone can remember, being infiltrated by what I would

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Speaker 2: describe as a very close circle of aristocratic interest that

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Speaker 2: seem much more vested in the perpetuation of the state's

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Speaker 2: problems than in solving them. So when I was asked

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Speaker 2: to do the job, I said, you know, this is

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Speaker 2: a very treacherous opportunity because the usual suspects are going

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Speaker 2: to gather around this money and want to pick it clean.

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Speaker 2: If I'm going to do the job, I want to

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Speaker 2: do it in a way that is accountable, that is

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Speaker 2: accessible to the average Kentucky and it assures transparency as

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Speaker 2: to how every dollar is spent. We also have to

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Speaker 2: make sure we maximize the impact of these dollars. Recognizing

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Speaker 2: the immensity of the problem and the finite nature of

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Speaker 2: this resource, So the first most pressing need, in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: was to explore the possibility of setting aside a small

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Speaker 2: percentage of the state's settlement funds to foster a therapeutic

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Speaker 2: breakthrough for opioid dependency. The very best of our treatments

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Speaker 2: have about a twenty five percent efficacy rate, and that's

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Speaker 2: not nearly good enough to create the sort of generational

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Speaker 2: change that we need in what is now the thirtieth

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Speaker 2: year of a monstrous opioid epidemic. By virtue of having

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Speaker 2: followed scientific research around the potential breakthrough therapeutic response of

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Speaker 2: alcoholics to the psilocybin mushroom, I became independently curious about

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Speaker 2: those things that had been traditionally associated with the pejoratively

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Speaker 2: described psychedelic scene that originated in the late sixties counterculture,

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Speaker 2: and whether there could be actual, legitimate medical applications of

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Speaker 2: any of those therapeutics to opioid dependency. On July twenty nine,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, I heard the word I have begain

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Speaker 2: for the very first time, and that touched off an intensive,

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Speaker 2: second full time job off the books, conducting all the

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Speaker 2: critical examination and due diligence research that I could to

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Speaker 2: determine whether the development of IB again through the creation

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Speaker 2: of a public private partnership under the Commission's auspices, could

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Speaker 2: be Kentucky's Manhattan Project opportunity to lead itself and the

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Speaker 2: rest of the country in a way that could revolutionize

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Speaker 2: substance use and mental health treatment. I became convinced that

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Speaker 2: I again represented that opportunity. Mai the thirty first, or

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, we announced that we were going to

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Speaker 2: explore the possibility of committing forty two million dollars, or

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Speaker 2: five percent of the state's total settlement dollars, to the

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Speaker 2: creation of a public private partnership that would get ib

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Speaker 2: again through the FDA as a breakthrough therapeutic for opioid dependency.

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Speaker 2: When that happened, what was a reaction, Well, there were

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Speaker 2: disparate reactions. One was the predictable response from the powers

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Speaker 2: that be that stood the most to lose from the

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Speaker 2: creation of a therapeutic that can deliver curative results in

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Speaker 2: place of those that are admitted ministered on the basis

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Speaker 2: of chronosity. We had immediate and vocal opposition from the

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Speaker 2: University of Kentucky, an institution which claims to be an

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Speaker 2: asprint Tier one public university research status, but nonetheless asserted

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Speaker 2: that the therapeutic options we have are the ones that

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Speaker 2: we should have. They're the best that there can ever be,

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Speaker 2: and there was no need to even go down this

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Speaker 2: audacious road. A shock and attitude from an institution that

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Speaker 2: is supposed to help drive open minded progress. The other

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Speaker 2: vocal upon it turned out to be current Kentucky Governor

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Speaker 2: Andy Basher. And as I'm sure you have followed this

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Speaker 2: guy as being talked about as a top tier candidate

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Speaker 2: for president for the Democrat Party in twenty twenty eight,

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Speaker 2: what your audience should know is that current Kentucky Governor

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Speaker 2: Andy Basheer and his father, former Kentucky Governor Steve Basheer,

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Speaker 2: worked at a law firm in Lexington, Kentucky, and were

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Speaker 2: partners there called Stints and Harveson. Stints and Harveison Act.

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Speaker 2: We represented Purdue Pharma in its litigation against the people

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Speaker 2: of Kentucky while Steve and Andy Bisher were partners at

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Speaker 2: that law firm. So, in addition to the University of Kentucky,

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Speaker 2: Andy Basher came out moments after we completed our public

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Speaker 2: announcement and gave his full throated opposition to our intention

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Speaker 2: to go down this road. The heartening portion of this

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Speaker 2: related to the grassroots response of the people of Kentucky

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Speaker 2: to the possibility of the state leading the creation of

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Speaker 2: a therapeutic breakthrough for a problem that families and communities

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Speaker 2: in Kentucky had borne the ground zero brunt of for

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Speaker 2: thirty years. Leading up to this announcement, I had taken

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Speaker 2: the Commission across the state. We held twenty individual town

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Speaker 2: halls from one end of the state to the other

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Speaker 2: on Tuesday nights at six pm, and these things would

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Speaker 2: go anywhere between eight forty five oh whip to ten

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Speaker 2: o'clock at night immediately following the opening of society from

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Speaker 2: the COVID lockdowns that were harshly imposed by Andy Bisheer.

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Speaker 2: Each of these community meetings began with a fifteen minute

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Speaker 2: technocratic presentation around what the Commission's role was and help

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Speaker 2: it do its job, followed by solicitation of the community's

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Speaker 2: feedback as to how we needed to prioritize their needs

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Speaker 2: before we disperse this money and mister Speaker, what would

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Speaker 2: follow our fifteen minute technocratic presentation was a collective outpourt

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Speaker 2: of community catharsis and grief that illuminated a degree of

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Speaker 2: devastation that had been wronged by this problem that was

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Speaker 2: foreign even to me, someone who had come to the

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Speaker 2: table educated about the monstrosities produced by the opioid epidemic.

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Speaker 2: The sun total of our community responses were, we have

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Speaker 2: no confidence in the ability of officialdom to address our

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Speaker 2: despair in a way that is either competent or honest.

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Speaker 2: And if you managed to do anything for our community

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Speaker 2: that produces any constructive progress whatsoever, it will be a

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Speaker 2: shock to us. So, recognizing that there was profound public

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Speaker 2: cynicism and distrust of officialdom, there was great disappointment in

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Speaker 2: terms of how the existing therapies had failed to yield

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Speaker 2: progress that had been promised as they were deployed. We

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Speaker 2: found a receptive audience within this deeply politically conservative and

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Speaker 2: religiously fundamentalist state, among everyday Kentuckians, about the creation of

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Speaker 2: a new therapy that could not just sustain someone in

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Speaker 2: their suffering though prevent them from Diane, which is what

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Speaker 2: I would describe as our current options, but could literally

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Speaker 2: create a genuine emancipation medication that has the potential to

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Speaker 2: fully physiologically restore the brains of opioid dependent individuals impaired

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Speaker 2: by that long term use, and to do so in

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Speaker 2: a way that comprehensibly addresses the whole human mind, body,

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Speaker 2: and soul. And I am convinced that had we been

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Speaker 2: allowed to have this as a public referendum California style

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Speaker 2: rather than through a very mechanized process of government matriculation,

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Speaker 2: that proposal would have won in Kentucky sixty to forty

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Speaker 2: and by any measure that was landslide grassroots support. And

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Speaker 2: that is something that I would stand on like a

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Speaker 2: rock of Gibraltar in terms of the reality on the ground.

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Speaker 1: Since you could not go to a referendum, how did

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Speaker 1: the political system react to your idea of finding a permanent,

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Speaker 1: long term cure.

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Speaker 2: I would describe the interest as one of open minded reserve.

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Speaker 2: The legislature, which is controlled by Republicans and has been

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Speaker 2: for some time, did not make any move to interfere

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Speaker 2: with the prerogative of the Commission to explore the deployment

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Speaker 2: of recurses for this purpose. And again, the only vocal

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Speaker 2: opposition that we drew was from the University of Kentucky,

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Speaker 2: who had a representative on the Commission who protested throughout

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Speaker 2: the process as well as Adie Basher, whose Health and

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Speaker 2: Human Services secretary. A guy by the name of Eric

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Speaker 2: Friedlander was on the commission and was also consistently opposed

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Speaker 2: to every forward step that we made in this direction.

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Speaker 1: To go back to the basics from it. You know

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Speaker 1: so much more than I do. What exactly is eyebo game?

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Speaker 2: I'm a game is a naturally occurring alkaloid that is

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Speaker 2: found in three West African plants, The one that grows

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Speaker 2: in most plentiful amounts the Congo africana. The mother plant

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Speaker 2: is called the Ebogar route. It has been used by

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Speaker 2: the Bowedi culture in West Africa for centuries as part

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Speaker 2: of its cultural and spiritual traditions. In the mid sixties,

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Speaker 2: a gentleman by the name of Howard Lotzov, who had

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Speaker 2: been a long term heroin addict, came into contact without again,

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Speaker 2: and he took it because he was just a substance

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Speaker 2: use omnivore. After he went through the experience, he came

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Speaker 2: out on the other side with zero desire to consume

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Speaker 2: heroin and as consequentially, zero withdraw experience. This touched off

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Speaker 2: fifty years of open labeled field study that's generated data

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Speaker 2: that's decades wide in a mountain high that establishes that

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Speaker 2: ibegate has profound addiction interruption properties that are unparalleled within

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Speaker 2: our existent pharmacology.

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Speaker 1: A year ago, in twenty twenty four, Nature Medicine published

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Speaker 1: a study that showed remarkable results with military veterans with

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Speaker 1: traumatic brain injuries, and I began, can you walk us

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Speaker 1: through that? From her?

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Speaker 2: Yes, sir? As American war fighters, in particular special operators

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Speaker 2: were coming home with the traumas of war, psychological and physical.

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Speaker 2: They matriculated through a veterans administration that had at its

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Speaker 2: disposal all of the big pharma synthetic pharmacology that's known

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Speaker 2: to everyone opioids, for paying SSRIs for mood disorders. As

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Speaker 2: veterans matriculated through these processes and received these medications, none

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Speaker 2: of them were nearly adequate enough to address their trauma,

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Speaker 2: in particular the physiological trauma of traumatic brain injury. Many

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Speaker 2: of these veterans, as they contemplated taking their own lives,

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Speaker 2: heard about this qu exotic substance called ibagain that was

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Speaker 2: being administered in Mexico, and a lot of veterans began,

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Speaker 2: just through word of mouth to compare notes through scenarios

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Speaker 2: whereby veterans who were ready to detect their lives had

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Speaker 2: been sent for ibogain treatment and that on the other

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Speaker 2: side of that treatment they came away with genuinely miraculous

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Speaker 2: results in terms of the restoration of their sense of self,

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Speaker 2: a restoration of their sense of the will to live,

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Speaker 2: and a restoration of their mind that allowed them to

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Speaker 2: function at a level that they had not been able

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Speaker 2: to function with After they returned home. Not only were

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Speaker 2: they restored, but they were freed from their need to

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Speaker 2: utilize any of the pharmacology that had been given to

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Speaker 2: them by the VHA as.

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Speaker 1: I understand that Rick Perry, who's a very close friend

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Speaker 1: of mine and a very dedicated patriot, actually ran into

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Speaker 1: ib again through a Navy seal that he had met

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Speaker 1: at Cornetto Island while on vacation with his wife, and

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Speaker 1: somehow the ibegan story began to arrive in Texas, and

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Speaker 1: now Texas, which is our second biggest seat, is actually

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Speaker 1: in the process of passing bills that focus on the

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Speaker 1: use of Iyebergang in helping veterans and others. That's really

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Speaker 1: quite remarkable, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it is an unbelievable story that, with all due respect,

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Speaker 2: I happened to believe illustrates the presence of the divine

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Speaker 2: hand in the construction of the reality you've just described.

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Speaker 2: Governor Perry came into independent and separate contact with ibagain

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Speaker 2: through his friendship with Marcus Lttrell, and many of your

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Speaker 2: audience members may recognize as the loan survivor whose story

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Speaker 2: was told in a movie in which he was depicted

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Speaker 2: by Mark Wahlberg. Governor Perry and I converged on the

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Speaker 2: Kentucky project. I met him for the first time in

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Speaker 2: June of twenty three. He supported the Kentucky effort as

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Speaker 2: it was developed, recorded a message in support of it,

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Speaker 2: and was a coose deign on a newsweek of ed Only.

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Speaker 2: She was joined by Congressional Medal of Honor winner Dakota Meyer,

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Speaker 2: Marcus and Morgan Littreel supporting the Kentucky Initiative. The Kentucky

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Speaker 2: Initiative came to an end due to a change in

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Speaker 2: the office of Attorney General. The new Attorney General, who

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Speaker 2: was elected in November of twenty three, summoned me to

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Speaker 2: a meeting in December and said, I want no part

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Speaker 2: of this and I don't agree with anything you've done

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Speaker 2: around it, and I want your resignation before I take office.

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Speaker 2: So I was very much in despire over the lost

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Speaker 2: opportunity for the state and was desperate to find fertile

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Speaker 2: soul in which that project could be transplanted. And I

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Speaker 2: have to thank God for the connection made to Governor Perry,

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Speaker 2: because it was that connection that allowed the creation of

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Speaker 2: circumstances by which Texas has now finished a job that

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Speaker 2: was begun in Kentucky over two years ago.

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Speaker 1: Joas, what exactly is the Texas program?

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Speaker 2: So the Texas I began initiative is now the successful

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Speaker 2: completion of a left legislative campaign by which the state

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Speaker 2: legislature has put up fifty million dollars to fund a

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Speaker 2: public private partnership whereby a consortium of one or more

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Speaker 2: universities paired with one or more private hospital systems paired

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Speaker 2: with a single drug developer will submit their proposals in

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Speaker 2: response to a competitive application and review process to come

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Speaker 2: into Texas to conduct FDA drug development trials with ib

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Speaker 2: again as a breakthrough therapeutic for substance use disorder. Texas

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Speaker 2: money will pay for the cost of FDA trials conducted

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Speaker 2: in Texas by the drug developer, paired with drug Developer's

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Speaker 2: own independent contribution of fifty million dollars through that consortium,

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Speaker 2: it is the largest single public investment in psychedelic research

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Speaker 2: and medical development in history, and in particular as it

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Speaker 2: relates to eyeba gain, it represents a significant shift of

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Speaker 2: public policy when it comes to the recognition of the

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Speaker 2: need to develop restorative therapeutics that can have the potential,

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Speaker 2: in this case, to revolutionize substance use mental health, as

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Speaker 2: well as treatment of neurological conditions that impact the brain

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Speaker 2: for which we have no good answers.

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Speaker 1: As I understand it. The Veterans Administration Secretary Doug Collins

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Speaker 1: has also indicated that they are open to exploring the

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Speaker 1: impact of psychedelics on helping veterans.

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Speaker 2: Secretary Collins has expressed his support for the delivery of

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Speaker 2: medicines that can improve upon what we have. Those happen

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Speaker 2: to be in some cases psychedelic, and it's wonderful to

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Speaker 2: see leadership that's open minded and willing to pursue progress

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Speaker 2: wherever it exists.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any notion if ibergame began to be

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Speaker 1: used broadly, what its cost structure would be like iming

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Speaker 1: how hard is it news?

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Speaker 2: The actual synthesis process necessary to produce IYE again is

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Speaker 2: not particularly expensive. Being able to establish a domestic supply

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Speaker 2: chain for the medication that's not going to be necessarily expensive.

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Speaker 2: I BEGIN is a very serious medication that comes with

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Speaker 2: a particular cardiac risk that can result in arrhythmia, which

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Speaker 2: can result in the stoppage of the heart. It must

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Speaker 2: be delivered within a clinically controlled medical set and complete

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Speaker 2: with cardiac screening, cardiac monitor and the administration of medication

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Speaker 2: that can correct in arrhythmia if it occurs. The number

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Speaker 2: we have to beat, mister speaker is there's two numbers,

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Speaker 2: and those numbers are one hundred and eight thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and one hundred and twenty days. When we have an

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Speaker 2: individual who goes in for substance abuse treatment now and

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Speaker 2: they happen to be on Medicaid, the first thirty days

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Speaker 2: of impatient treatment is designed just to stabilize them enough

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Speaker 2: to then go into a ninety day intensive outpatient protocol

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Speaker 2: to ensure that they are compliant with their treatment plan,

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Speaker 2: which involves either methadone or suboxone. At first thirty days

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Speaker 2: of impatient treatment in twenty twenty two Kentucky Medicaid dollars

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Speaker 2: is thirty six thousand dollars. The next ninety days of

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Speaker 2: intensive outpatient treatment is seventy two thousand dollars. The average

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Speaker 2: number of attempts a person will make to go through

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Speaker 2: this system is five. So if we are able to

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Speaker 2: deliver a ten day inpatient treatment of ibagain that essentially

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Speaker 2: restores an individual's brain to the condition that it was

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Speaker 2: in before they ever consumed the first opioid, and do

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Speaker 2: so at a price point that is below a half

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Speaker 2: a million dollars, then the opportunity to achieve immense actuarial

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Speaker 2: savings over time is tremendous, and i begain is just

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Speaker 2: a beginning, not an end. Many states cannot supply long

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Speaker 2: term recovery services because of how much resource burden there

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Speaker 2: is on that first one hundred and twenty days of

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Speaker 2: treatment just to produce individual stabilization. With IYEB again, we

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Speaker 2: have a chance to substantially improve acute treatment outcomes in

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Speaker 2: a ways that save substantial amounts of money and can

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Speaker 2: redeploy resources to create long term recovery infrastructure. It's vital

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Speaker 2: to maintain long term independent recovery.

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Speaker 1: So if somebody goes through the ibogain process, to what

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Speaker 1: degree are they likely to be cleaned for the rest

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Speaker 1: of their life? And to what degree is there a

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Speaker 1: real danger of buck sliding?

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Speaker 2: Ibergain produces the very best beginning for an individual's recovery

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Speaker 2: journey that can be delivered by the medical universe. And

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Speaker 2: by that I mean an opioid dependent individual their brain

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Speaker 2: can't produce dopamine in serotonin. These are the chemicals that

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Speaker 2: drive all of our most baseline human instincts. The drivet to eat,

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Speaker 2: to drink, to fight, to fight, and procreate. Those are

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Speaker 2: all driven by serotonin and dopamine. So when a person

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Speaker 2: is deprived of their drug supply and they engage in

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Speaker 2: what appears to be behavior that is criminally depraved, who

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Speaker 2: are actually observing of the consequences of a profound neurochemical

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Speaker 2: brain injury, that is, to brain starvation for dopamine and serotonin.

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Speaker 2: A person has to be completely abstinate from all opioid

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Speaker 2: consumption for at least eighteen months in order for the

378
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: brain to begin to produce its own dopamine and serotonin.

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Speaker 2: With IEB again, you take that eighteen months, and you

380
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Speaker 2: reduce it to thirty six to forty eight hours. And

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Speaker 2: by that I mean eighty percent of individuals who get

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00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: a single treatment have their brains dopamine and serotonin levels

383
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Speaker 2: restored to their pre opioid levels within thirty six to

384
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Speaker 2: forty eight hours, thereby eliminating the entire withdraw experience and

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00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: creating a genuine physiological restoration of the impaired brain. Now

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00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: that is the beginning. Just like any other treatment, an

387
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Speaker 2: individual whose life has been shattered by the consequences of addiction,

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Speaker 2: who faces a host of legal, financial, logistical, and social problems,

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Speaker 2: must receive long term recovery support to help solve each

390
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: of those problems. Because if we take an individual and

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00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: just throw them back into the mailstream of a catastrophe,

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00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: the chances of relapse with any treatment are substantially high.

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Speaker 2: I would add one other component, and that is the

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Speaker 2: spiritual aspect of I Be Again experience. Many people who

395
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: receive this medication, even people who are not believers in

396
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: a higher power, come away with an absolute, concrete affirmation

397
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: that they are a spiritual being and that there is

398
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Speaker 2: a higher power in this universe who possesses almighty and

399
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: unconditional love for them. That is, for me, I begain's

400
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: most potent attribute. And when you offer that foundation of

401
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: spiritual significance within the context of medical treatment, you significantly

402
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: enhance the chances for long term success, especially if paired

403
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: with the treatment system that will be supportive of that

404
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: individual as they make that reconstruction journey.

405
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Speaker 1: I'm very curious what the interactions are in your brain

406
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 1: that enable you to shrink what could be an eighteen

407
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: month process into a forty eight or seventy two hour process.

408
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: What is actually chemically so different from this experience.

409
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Speaker 2: You are asking, mister speaker a question that pertains to

410
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: what I have been educated to know as the mechanism

411
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: of action. What is it that it does with the

412
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: in the brain to generate these results? And the answer

413
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: to that is no one knows. One of the reasons

414
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: the Stanford study was undertaken was to determine whether there

415
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: were objectively identifiable changes within the brain to explain these

416
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: dramatic subjective reports of total remission of what had been

417
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: years long suicidality, treatment resistant depression, and anxiety, as well

418
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: as functional impairments related to dramatic brain injury. And this

419
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 2: is really where the revolutionary nature of this becomes concrete.

420
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: MRI's were taken of thirty veterans before and after a

421
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: single eyebigain treatment. Each veteran had dramatic brain injury, which

422
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: was radiographically expressed as dead spots within functional MRI images

423
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: black dots throughout the brain. Post i begain treatment, MRIs

424
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 2: demonstrated for realities. One, there was to come complete elimination

425
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: of those black dots through the brains of these veterans.

426
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: Number two, the white matter that covers the surface of

427
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: our brains, the highway across which all of our thoughts

428
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: and impulses travel, grew in thickened in size across the

429
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: entire surface of their brains. The centers of the brains

430
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 2: responsible for emotional regulation and executive function grew in size.

431
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: The average reversal of brain age among the cohort of

432
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: thirty veterans is one and a half years, with the

433
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: top five seeing their brains reverse in age by almost

434
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: five years. There are individuals who are receiving eye begain

435
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 2: treatment to keep their symptoms of Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, and

436
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: lame disease in remission. I cannot overstate the dramatic nature

437
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: of these results because there is nothing known to modern

438
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: medicine that actually regenerates the brain. Ibagain does and we

439
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 2: are just on the very front end of recognizing that

440
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: this has the potential to revolutionize Western medicine when it

441
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: comes to anything and everything related to the brain.

442
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: The study you're describing was done at Stanford, Yes, sir,

443
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: so people can find it. Has anybody tried applying I

444
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: begain to Alzheimer's.

445
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: That has not been done, But given that neuro regenerative

446
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: property that has been described, there's good reason to believe,

447
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: particularly with early detection, that I begin can yield a

448
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: significant improvement in the treatment of it, even if it

449
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 2: does not necessarily cure it. And is anyone with a

450
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: family member with dimension knows every additional day of good

451
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: life that you can give someone who suffers from it

452
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: is a wonderful treasure. And I certainly believe that we

453
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: can see that.

454
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: This could be an astonishing breakthrough in what has been

455
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: a long losing struggle with addiction across this country. Now,

456
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: does it have the same effect, for example, and people

457
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: have cocaine or fentanyl or other kinds of addictions, or

458
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: only on people who've been taking pharmacological addiction.

459
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: Ibigain is an all purpose addiction interrupt The focus of

460
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: scientific research has been upon opioid dependency, because that's for

461
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: its point of discovery was initially made. However, right now,

462
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: I was just on a call with a gentleman by

463
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: the name of doctor Bruno S. Muschin, who in the

464
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: state of South Paulo is a singular provider who uses

465
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 2: ibigain to interrupt addiction to crack cocaine, which is on

466
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: scale of use comparable to what we have here in

467
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: the United States by way of opioid epidemic. Affective with opioids,

468
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: it's affective with cocaine and crack cocaine. It is effective

469
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: with alcohol, it is effective with myth. And what's so

470
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: immensely important about that is there is not a single

471
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: medication of any kind that has any effective impact on

472
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: meth whatsoever. So you are correct. The opportunity to revolutionize

473
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: addiction treatment with this therapeutic it is immense Well.

474
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: It strikes me that the whole Make America Healthy Again movement,

475
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: that this could be a very significant building block and

476
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: getting us back to being a country that's not addicted.

477
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: I can't imagine a more timely podcast than to be

478
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: talking with you about this.

479
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: Once serendipity becomes a pattern, it is no longer serendipitous.

480
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: And as I have become individually educated about the genesis

481
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: of MAHA, its foundational roots, and how all these individuals

482
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 2: with different experiences but with common themes have converged, it

483
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: is surreal insofar as Governor Perry and I have participated

484
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: around this issue and can bring it to a MAHA

485
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: movement that is absolutely bent in the direction a free

486
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: an American society from the exploitation and monetization of human

487
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: suffering than we are all in.

488
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 1: As I understand of both Mexico and New Zealand are

489
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: using I began already, what's their experience like.

490
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: So you have clinics in Mexico, most of which have

491
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: been set up by Canadian or American expats who have

492
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: recognized and know what this can do. The overseas treatment

493
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: infrastructure is very much a checkerboard of quality. You have

494
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: some who know exactly what they're doing and they do

495
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: it right, and then you have others who are playing

496
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: with fire. New Zealand as infrastructure buyer, but it is

497
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: not at scale, so The opportunity that is presented with

498
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: Texas is to create that beachhead for eyebagame within the

499
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 2: United States and to demonstrate how you do it safely, efficaciously,

500
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: and at scale so as to make sure that there

501
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,959
Speaker 2: is the provision of access to anyone who needs it.

502
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: And given how much money that we are spending on

503
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: a seventy five percent failure rate, I can't imagine that

504
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: there's any reason why, if we are honest and transparent

505
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: about how we do this, that we can't assure universal

506
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: access in a way that takes a significant burden off

507
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: of our systems and families that suffer without effective atures.

508
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: We currently have a sick care system when we need

509
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: a healthcare system and the goal ask to me to

510
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: get you back to health, not to maintain you in sickness.

511
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: And this strikes me as a perfect example of that.

512
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: This is very, very exciting to me. What do you

513
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: think is the possibility that I began, we'll actually get

514
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: approval from the FDA.

515
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: One of the things that we did in Kentucky was

516
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: conducted a hearing on this very question and within that

517
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: here and we had two FDA officials at the time,

518
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: one was the scientist General for Controlled Substances Research, and

519
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,959
Speaker 2: the other was a member of the FDA's Advisory Board

520
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 2: of Neuropharmacology. Through their testimony, they expressed the fact that

521
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 2: for the FDA, question around ibogain is whether those risks

522
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: that are attendant with its administration, the cardiac risk can

523
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: be safely mitigated. And as long as I answer that

524
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: question was yes, there's no reason why the FDA would

525
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: not approve hybergain treatment. Now I'll go one step further

526
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: within the psychedelic universe. The reality is, with many of

527
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: these medications, there is a notorious history of recreational use

528
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,760
Speaker 2: within left wing dregculture that has created a significant amount

529
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: of stigma around our application to legitimate medical conditions. Ib

530
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 2: again is blessed with no h hiss of recreational use

531
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: in the arcana of American memory, because it's not a

532
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: recreational substance. It's a very serious medication. For everything that

533
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 2: has a recreational application, there's a significant street economy, whether

534
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: that's cocaine, whether it's heroin, you name it. If there

535
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: could be fun with it, there's a street economy for it.

536
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: There is no street economy without again, the out again

537
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 2: experience is very physically challenging, and it's not one that

538
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 2: people seek out, and that's why people have never heard

539
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: of an ibogain rave that don't exist. That lack of

540
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: recreational abuse potential, I think is a significant strategic advantage

541
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 2: ibogain has, in addition to its very unique neuro regenerative

542
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 2: properties that we're just now beginning to understand.

543
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: I would think, and I'd make this argument very strongly,

544
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 1: to the degree that you're describing these successes and to

545
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: the degree that we've seen, for example, with traumatic brain injury,

546
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: these successes, the FDA has to balance risk against certainty.

547
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: If you have a traumatic brain injury and we don't

548
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: give you something at guiba gain, you will permanently have

549
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: that injury. Therefore, there's a downside to not taking the

550
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 1: risk of in a controlled environment, being aware of the

551
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: heart concerns, trying to see if we can't give you your

552
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: life back. What can listeners do to support the mission

553
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 1: of Americans forible gain or to get involved in advancing

554
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: access to new treatments.

555
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 2: Sir, As you know, any successful shift in American politics,

556
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: it's downstream from a shift that occurs in culture. And

557
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: what I would ask your listeners to do is go

558
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: to americansfibagain dot org. It has an Instagram presence. Governor

559
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Perry and I recognize that there's one of two ways

560
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: that you win culture and thereby impact politics. You can

561
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: either do it through the broad based dispersal of money,

562
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: which we don't have, or you do it through the

563
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 2: broad based dispersal of eliminating information that can activate, galvanize,

564
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: and motivate a broad based cultural movement to advance progress.

565
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: We aim to shepherd a broad based unity opportunity that

566
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: involves the creation of a diverse coalition with the common

567
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 2: value of seeing this emancipation medication be fully integrated into

568
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: the US healthcare system as expeditiously as possible. This is

569
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: the Manhattan Project of our time, and anyone who is

570
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: hearing about this, I would encourage them to engage the organization,

571
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: follow on social media, get the word out as to

572
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 2: what this is and what it can do to lift

573
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 2: up those who are living at the end of hope,

574
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: and as we move into other states starting in January

575
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: of twenty six, leverage those networks of voices to make

576
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 2: clear that we are going to demand responsive leadership that

577
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: supports the integration of appagain into the US healthcare system

578
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 2: as expeditiously as possible.

579
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: I can assure you, Brian, I'm so inspired by this

580
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: conversation that I'm personally going to be strongly engaged in

581
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: moving the idea around and getting people to look at it.

582
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: You're really doing something which will, over the next generation,

583
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: save several million lives. It's amazing.

584
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, and just to know that you are

585
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 2: willing to engage as you describe. As I said before

586
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 2: we got online, I've been an admirer of few years

587
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: for a very long time, and Governor Praier and I

588
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: welcome your enthusiastic participation in whatever way you want to

589
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 2: give it.

590
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: Good Well, listen, I want to thank you for joining

591
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: me in giving all of us a insight on ibogain

592
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: and its potential for treatments. And I want to let

593
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: our listeners know they can find out more about Americans

594
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: for Ibogain by visiting your website at americansfibogain dot org,

595
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: which will also be on our show page. So thank

596
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: you so much for drawing.

597
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: Us, Missus Baker. It's been an honor and a privileged

598
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: thank you, sir.

599
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest w Bryan Hubbard. You can

600
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: learn more about Americans for Ibogain on our show page

601
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by Gainglish three

602
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our

603
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was

604
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team with

605
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: Ginglish three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope

606
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with

607
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can

608
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of news

609
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: World can sign up for my three free weekly columns

610
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,720
Speaker 1: at ginglistree sixty dot com slash newsletter I'm new Gingrich.

611
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: This is news Walk