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Speaker 1: Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Do you turn me up a little bit? All right? Bet?

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Speaker 1: Suprema suprema role called suprema subprema role called subprema subprema

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Speaker 1: roll call subprema suprema role. We're making them chips or

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Speaker 1: should I say Frito's. Were the most laid back Jackson

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Speaker 1: of all Torrannio at Daryl Supreme Suprema road called Subprema

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Speaker 1: subprema rod called. My name is Sugar. Yeah, this shore

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Speaker 1: is nto to be right here on I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Sama roll call such supremo roll call. It's m Yeah,

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Speaker 1: your favorite black one, Yeah with my man Tito. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the finest Jackson roll call suprema so surema roll call,

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Speaker 1: sub prema sub prima role call boll schools. My name yeah,

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Speaker 1: Northern Indiana boy, Yeah, from the Jackson family. Yeah, brought

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Speaker 1: me a whole lot of joy. Call Sa su prema

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Speaker 1: roll call, SA surema road call. My name is Terry, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my last name is Jackson. Yeah, I come with the action. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a math faction surema roll call, so prema, so

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Speaker 1: su prema roll call sub prema son sub prima roll

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Speaker 1: call sub prema Son. Surema, roll call Wow, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just recorded a song with the Jackson. Wait, this is

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Speaker 1: our second second going with the Jackson. Yeah. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we're experienced. Now we're honre Jackson's. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. How are you doing? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And now we got sugar Steve. Hello, how's it going Steve?

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Speaker 1: It's going good? Now. I've never I've never seen all

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Speaker 1: thirty eight fifty thirty eight. That sounds like not enough? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, just enough? Uh? Like how how's like? All right?

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Speaker 1: And uh, boss Bill? What's up? Wow? Even Boss Bill

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Speaker 1: is happy? Yeah? Jobs. You know usually start every Quest

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Speaker 1: Love Supreme episode with a barge of hyperbole and praise

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Speaker 1: that usually takes about seven minutes. But if you don't

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Speaker 1: know who are I guess this is the dailies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: and you listen to Quest Love Supreme's been under a rock?

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Speaker 1: Yeah something something something saying literally, I will say a

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Speaker 1: member probably one of the most love and respected musical dynasties, uh,

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Speaker 1: celebrating their fifty anniversary and show business just wow. I

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Speaker 1: remember that Soul Training episode where it was like their

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Speaker 1: tenth anniversary show Business now it's fifty. That's incredible, man,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a legacy for your ass ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: What else can I say but welcome Tito Jackson, Love Supreme,

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Button Jackson. Yeah, and I was about to say

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Speaker 1: regressing and you when I walked in the room, you

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Speaker 1: thought it was my nephew. Yeah, I was. You're taking

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Speaker 1: care of yourself. Man. We always knew that you and

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Speaker 1: your brother Jackie had proper government names that weren't your

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Speaker 1: stage names. Um so, how did you uh was Tito

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Speaker 1: your middle name or your mind? How did you get

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Speaker 1: your monica Tito? Papa Papa Joe name me after boxer

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Speaker 1: named Tito something? So Tito's on your birth certificate? No

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Speaker 1: it's not, Oh never mind. My birth certificate name is

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Speaker 1: Terry okay, terrana A Daryl Daryl Jackson. Wait, those are

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Speaker 1: so many names. Terrano, Darryl Jackson, Daryl, Daryl, just three

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Speaker 1: names the first, middle of the last, like everybody else, Margaret, Terry,

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Speaker 1: almost a Darrel. Okay, I'm sorry. So at what point

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Speaker 1: were you ever? Since? I can remember so all your life,

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Speaker 1: your siblings and Tito. Most people know me bot Tito,

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Speaker 1: and what surprised me. We have a corporation with the brothers,

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Speaker 1: and my brother handed me a credit card American Express

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Speaker 1: instead of having my real name Terry. I don't know

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Speaker 1: it had Tito Jackson, I said, Jackie, I can't use

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Speaker 1: this right. I don't have one piece of I d

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Speaker 1: that says Tito Jackson. Oh, I understand this because nobody

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Speaker 1: in my family has ever called me by my birth name,

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Speaker 1: like I've always been eat the junior of June Book.

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Speaker 1: Like really, yeah, only we call you Bill. Okay, only

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Speaker 1: my friends and and people I work with call me

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Speaker 1: by my real name. Everybody else. See, now that I've

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Speaker 1: put this on the internet, y'all gonna mess that up. Yes,

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Speaker 1: June Bug, I can call you a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: you are a June Bug. So okay. So Tito was

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Speaker 1: your your nicknames so always unless it's time to take

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Speaker 1: out the garbage, then where you like didn't pay attention? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's see, Tito, I have no chores. I had plenty

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Speaker 1: of I Okay. So I know you're probably tired of

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Speaker 1: recapitulating the story over and over and over again. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Is there is there a question about Gary, Indiana that

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Speaker 1: you've not been asked that we don't know about. Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I don't know. It depends on what you want

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Speaker 1: to ask. Well, what what I'm really curious about? Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm more curious about the creative process of how things

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Speaker 1: come together. And I know that and without the whatever,

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Speaker 1: under the watchful I of the iron hand of drill

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Joe or whatever. But I know that to get

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Speaker 1: to that level of perfection you have to put hours

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Speaker 1: and hours and hours and hours of practicing exactly. So,

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Speaker 1: could you give me what a typical itinerary was primo

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Speaker 1: town of you guys prepping for your talent shows. Of

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Speaker 1: course I can. Well, it was more like, go to school,

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Speaker 1: come home, put them books over in the corner. The

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Speaker 1: mics are already set up, all five microphones, amps are

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Speaker 1: on standby, and we're doing it and kids are still

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Speaker 1: walking home from school and then stop and by hearing

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Speaker 1: the music, pushing each other out the way to try

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Speaker 1: and take a look or whatever. And we rehearsed maybe

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Speaker 1: three or four hours prior to doing the show that night.

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Speaker 1: We usually go to Chicago, play the Peppermint Nounge of

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Speaker 1: the Hot Shop around something like that, then get home

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Speaker 1: like two in the morning. You know, and uh go

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Speaker 1: to school next day, wake up at six seven in

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Speaker 1: the morning, go school. Were you allowed any downtime from

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Speaker 1: when school let out to home or was it like

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Speaker 1: for me, the fear was you better be home before

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Speaker 1: the uperh theme comes on, which I had to be

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Speaker 1: home after three at three. Yeah, that that bell like

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Speaker 1: when Carlton starts dancing. My reactions when I hear that whistle,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just like I had to be home

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Speaker 1: at three. Well, my father's thing was when we weren't

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Speaker 1: doing music, he said, don't let the street lights catch you.

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Speaker 1: If those street lights are on and you're not in

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Speaker 1: the house, you're in trouble. Yikes. Okay, so wait, can

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Speaker 1: I ask a question? How often did you did you

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Speaker 1: guys do the showcase or the talent, because well, we

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Speaker 1: rehearsed every day and we do our home break between breaks.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so what kind of students were you guys?

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Speaker 1: Great students, great students. Yeah. We also travel with a

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Speaker 1: tutor after we had made it professionally, and they have

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Speaker 1: rules of course, uh state laws. The kids have to

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Speaker 1: work so many hours now he has to have so

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Speaker 1: many hours of a break. So we had a teacher

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Speaker 1: by the name of Rose Fine, and she talked. She

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Speaker 1: was so cool because she would let me smoke my

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Speaker 1: cigarette right in class. I was smoking as a team.

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Speaker 1: You know. Were you the rebellious Jackson? Some people say that,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think, like, who's the first to really

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Speaker 1: test the water? Is still like I'm gonna break curfew.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna hit me with that belt. So it

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Speaker 1: was the myth true of the whole guitar thing, because

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Speaker 1: is that the way that was presented in in the

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Speaker 1: bio pick. You know, you were doing chords and stuff already.

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Speaker 1: So how long did it take you too, from the

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Speaker 1: first time you I had that guitar to learn chords

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Speaker 1: and all those things before the string broke. Oh, it

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Speaker 1: took a little while. It took it at least three

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Speaker 1: to four months. You know. I was just playing with it,

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Speaker 1: and I I used to go and my uncle Luth

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Speaker 1: and my father would play a lot of the blues

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Reid, B B. King, all these guys from old school,

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Speaker 1: and I just sit there and just stare. You know,

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Speaker 1: he knew I was interested, and I just stare and stare.

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Speaker 1: And when he would go to work, he go to

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Speaker 1: myself and Jermaine and he and Jackie. He would go,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to work. Don't none of you boys touch

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Speaker 1: my guitar. I'm putting it here in the closet, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we being being a kid, you don't say that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we want to touch it. Even more so

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Speaker 1: I will take to get how I played for hours.

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Speaker 1: My mom would let me play it all day long,

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Speaker 1: and she said, honey, your father's gonna be home soon.

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Speaker 1: Put it away, you know. So she was protecting me

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Speaker 1: until I broke that string. Didn't How long did the

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Speaker 1: Falcons last your father's I have no idea that because

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Speaker 1: I was so young at that time, you know. But

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Speaker 1: they were around a little while I was basically just

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Speaker 1: a kid trying to play some music with mom called

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Speaker 1: my father, and they would play blues all day and

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Speaker 1: they had me doing Doom, Doom Doom. Do they get

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Speaker 1: all the lead parts? And they give me maybe a

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Speaker 1: minute at the end of the jam section. Okay, you

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Speaker 1: can play now, you know. And I played whatever I could,

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Speaker 1: you know, mistakes at all, whatever, you know. That was it.

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Speaker 1: So by the time you guys were formed and the

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Speaker 1: Falcons weren't necessarily doing that, No, they weren't at that time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I see, I just recently not discovered. I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: there was a whole message. I knew the steel Town

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Speaker 1: Recordings was forty five, but I didn't realize that there

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Speaker 1: were a collection of other songs in that era. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course, you know someone's gonna come up

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Speaker 1: like start cashing, and so half of it was just

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Speaker 1: rehearsals whatever. But at the time, when you guys got

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Speaker 1: your thing together with steel Town, was that like an

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Speaker 1: excitement thing like this is Jack Pott. It can't get

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Speaker 1: nobody than this. Oh yeah, we thought we had made

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Speaker 1: big time. You know, steel Town was the local label,

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Speaker 1: while to Gary, Indiana and their their reach wasn't very far.

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Speaker 1: I think we thought we made some noise in Texas,

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Speaker 1: and we made some noise and Gary and I can't

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Speaker 1: think of anywhere else in America that it was hidden.

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Speaker 1: So that was pretty much the success of that first record.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big boy now and knowing that you guys

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Speaker 1: played the I guess you could say that the Chitland

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Speaker 1: circuit of the day, we were some of the venues

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Speaker 1: that you well, you the major venues that we used

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Speaker 1: to do the Regal Theater in Chicago, and uh was

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Speaker 1: that equivalent to the Apollo Yes, as far as the pressure, yes, well,

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Speaker 1: Chicago's version of the Apollo. You know, Regal Theater. We've

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Speaker 1: seen and open up for Jackie Wilson, Gladys Night, Bobby

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Speaker 1: Taylor in the Vancouver's. We were basically a local band

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Speaker 1: that the pros used to come through Chicago and we

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Speaker 1: we were the opening act. And uh, every once in

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Speaker 1: a while we'll go to the Uptown in Philly and

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Speaker 1: we'll go to the Apollo Theater here in New York.

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Speaker 1: And uh, that was pretty much the big, big dates

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Speaker 1: for us. So I would assume that your dad would

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Speaker 1: do all the driving. We had this other man by

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Speaker 1: the name of Jack Richardson who was a friend of

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Speaker 1: my father. He would do a lot of the driving

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Speaker 1: because my father would work sometime and Jack Richardson would

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Speaker 1: take us to the performances. Why ask my father want

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Speaker 1: to work? I'm just trying to imagine how all the

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Speaker 1: equipment and there's no such thing as backline and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. So yeah, we had a votewagon bus vowagon bus,

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Speaker 1: so would load everything in the bus and back then

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Speaker 1: you travel with your own PA system as well as

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Speaker 1: your amps and everything. That's what I'm saying, Like, how

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Speaker 1: did you guys squeeze? We slept on the amps. We

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Speaker 1: slept and sat on the amps. So we took all

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Speaker 1: the seats out of the car. Okay, I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out the configuration and how did you get the

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Speaker 1: amps and the seats and there? I wish you guys

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Speaker 1: can see the look on his face. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: a fift passenger van we run. No, no, no, they're

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Speaker 1: driving way further than you guys do in this uncomfortable situation.

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Speaker 1: In the beginning, we didn't get our first tour bus

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Speaker 1: to like our second album, so listen to compare in nineties. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, I get I've never thought about taking

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Speaker 1: out the seats. Okay, it makes sense you hello, uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: but pre seat belts too, kind of middle passage jurish

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Speaker 1: pre seatbelts exactly? Do you remember us since you were

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Speaker 1: a teenager at this time, right, y'all are touring you're

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Speaker 1: a teenager, Yes, I was a young teenager, maybe twelve

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Speaker 1: thirteen years old. Do you remember what it was like

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Speaker 1: going to these different cities and this time of it

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Speaker 1: was exciting, you know. I remembers, oh yeah, I remember

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Speaker 1: all that. They used to put us in the back

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Speaker 1: of the hotel near the dumpsters. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: little kids making a lot of noise and they wanted

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Speaker 1: us away from the front desk. Really so oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: there in the hallways and exactly, and we did it all.

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Speaker 1: So can you finally put the official stamp on who

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Speaker 1: brought you the Motown? I understand that it was actually

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Speaker 1: it was two people. I say it's responsible for bringing

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Speaker 1: us to Motown, and that would be Gladys Night. Okay,

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Speaker 1: because she tells me the story every time. I'm you're

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Speaker 1: one of like twelve people. Now, No, Glad's Night, glad

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Speaker 1: It's night, big big instrumental uh and Bobby Taylor of

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Speaker 1: the Vancours and UH. Basically with Diana Ross, the story

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Speaker 1: with Dinah Ross were just basically she presented us through

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Speaker 1: the world market. Yes, she had just gone solo that

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Speaker 1: she was getting ready to her first solo record at

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Speaker 1: the time too, right, so that would have been like

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Speaker 1: she had did it or what getting ready? But they

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Speaker 1: used Dinah Ross presents to Jackson five. Yeah, Barry was

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Speaker 1: thinking of marketing and mind you Uh, Tommy Chong was

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Tommy Chong was a get our player. Then

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Speaker 1: Bobby Taylor. Um, so how long was it till after

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Speaker 1: that um audition at Motel at least the one that

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Speaker 1: we saw that where it was like official. Not long.

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Speaker 1: They got us in the studio pretty much right away.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were in the studio within a month.

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Speaker 1: And uh. But the thing about it where we had

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Speaker 1: did that audition, we didn't think we would be signed

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Speaker 1: because Barry was in a corner, very stern. He would

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Speaker 1: didn't show no expression, and we were like doing that

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Speaker 1: things say do he like us? And this and that?

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Speaker 1: And we had heard he don't want more children on

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Speaker 1: his label. He having a hard time with Stevie Wonder

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Speaker 1: with the social workers. He can't record you already had

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Speaker 1: him in the studio for four hours. I gotta take

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Speaker 1: him home. He got work, he got school tomorrow. Say

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Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do with five kids? I can't handle one?

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Speaker 1: And uh, I guess it was Gladys and Bobby that

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Speaker 1: convinced him that you have to hear these children because

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Speaker 1: I always wanted a thing on that tape. Michael asked,

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Speaker 1: how is that or something like, sir and I never

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Speaker 1: knew what the answer was like. Yeah, speaking of five

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Speaker 1: kids from the Chicago Land area, go back to promotean

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Were the Five Stairs Steps? Were you

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Speaker 1: guys like in competition with him constantly? We were friends,

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Speaker 1: you know, Our Stealth Steps is a great group. They

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Speaker 1: a young group like Jackson's War back then, and they

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Speaker 1: had a song out by the name of ou Chaw.

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Speaker 1: It was made a lout of noise at that time.

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Speaker 1: And they used to travel. We would travel right behind

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Speaker 1: them or with them or what have you. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, um between the Silvers of Tennessee, especially

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Speaker 1: because they got such an early start. Um. Leon told

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Speaker 1: us that from Indiana to well he was born in

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Speaker 1: Indiana in Southend where I'm from. That I forgot about Leon. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I didn't know that. I totally forgot about that.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I'll never forget that man. Of course,

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Speaker 1: everybody born in Indiana, I remember. So was it when

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Speaker 1: when it's time to do these shows? Um, and I

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Speaker 1: forgot even the emotions said that they were running to

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Speaker 1: you guys often. Oh yeah, the emotions, and said we

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Speaker 1: used to run into our emotions. And back in the

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Speaker 1: day it wasn't Earthwaring as far. They were called the

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Speaker 1: T Box Simmons. It was a band. Yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: in a band called T Box Simmons and they would

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Speaker 1: play the same place, uh, the Hushaparral. And yeah, we

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Speaker 1: came up with those guys as well and emotions. So

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Speaker 1: you're saying that a month after that audition, you guys

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Speaker 1: got the news that you got accepted to motewl Oh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we got that. Matter of fact that we got that

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Speaker 1: pretty much at the audition because he walked over to

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Speaker 1: us after he had we had finished our audition and

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Speaker 1: we didn't know what he was going to say. He

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Speaker 1: walked over and said, I'm going to take your first

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Speaker 1: three records number one. Oh okay, we said, what that

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Speaker 1: was unheard of, especially about black artists. You know, three

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Speaker 1: records number one in the country, you know all the

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Speaker 1: charts he did four times. Yeah, yeah, so he did

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Speaker 1: it four times. When do you officially consider like your

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Speaker 1: last day or period in Gary, Indiana as in rear

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Speaker 1: view mirror, never turning back, we're being too well. We

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Speaker 1: moved to California back in nineteen sixty nine, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it was funny because our neighbor, uh this young lady

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Speaker 1: by the name of Brenda White. She's always said, you

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Speaker 1: Jackson's all of you guys in that little house making

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Speaker 1: all that. No, y'all ain't going nowhere, So you know

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Speaker 1: our motivations Gary, Indiana, I was like, wait, who lived

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Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills. Brenda used to say, my friend sing that,

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Speaker 1: just keep watching, you'll see you'll see y'all. Ever circle

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Speaker 1: back to her, please tell me I haven't seen her

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Speaker 1: since well. I mean, of course, of my observations with

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Speaker 1: you guys is that your family was really the first

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Speaker 1: to reap the benefits of the I have a dreams beach.

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Speaker 1: I consider you guys really the first beneficiaries of kind

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Speaker 1: of the accumulated whatever was being fought for for the

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Speaker 1: civil rights movement. You guys were the beginning of that dream.

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Speaker 1: And then people see you guys and they want to

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Speaker 1: do great and so on and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 1: So but I know that being the first, and by

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Speaker 1: being the first, really being like the loan black faces

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Speaker 1: and a lot of white spaces and being first. How

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Speaker 1: fish out of water was your experience moving to Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming that you guys lived in Beverly Hills first

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Speaker 1: or yeah, we lived in Hollywood first in this creek

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Speaker 1: called Queen's Road, and then we moved to Beverly Hills.

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Speaker 1: But it was really exciting. You know, We've never seen

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Speaker 1: a palm tree or anything like that, so just the

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Speaker 1: land in l a X Airport, it was like exciting

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Speaker 1: seeing the lights and the palm tree easing, the weather

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Speaker 1: so tropical and all these things. It was like paradise

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Speaker 1: to us. Nobody wanted to go back to Gary, Indiana

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Speaker 1: at that time, cole winners, you know, freezing and walking

336
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Speaker 1: to school and three and four foot snow, you know,

337
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Speaker 1: who want that? But was there ever a feeling like,

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Speaker 1: at least what my experiences where I know, like I'm

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00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: the loon shark in a odd situation. And I don't

340
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: mean like a NodD situation like everything's like rednecked now South,

341
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: but I just mean like showing up, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm the only black person here, or that that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing. We were always motivating and anxious and ready

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Speaker 1: to do whatever it took. And what you guys never

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00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 1: felt like, no, no, we've never had those feelings or

346
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Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable. No, not really until they put us in

347
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Speaker 1: the back by the garbage cast. Oh Motown period of touring.

348
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, we was just loud. We deserved to

349
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Speaker 1: give it at this trash. So did you think at

350
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: that point be rigorous rehearsals and schedules would slow down

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00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: somewhat a little bit? They didn't. They increase, a matter

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Speaker 1: of fact, But did you think that it would. I

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00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: thought we made it and that means you don't have

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Speaker 1: to do too much of that type of thing, you know.

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Speaker 1: But of course you know quests as a musician that

356
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Speaker 1: you gotta keep it going, baby, you gotta rehearse. And

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Speaker 1: Motown rehearsed us very very very hard. They went through

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Speaker 1: every little move, every step everything. Okay, So in the

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Speaker 1: Motown period, what would now that you're in l A,

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Speaker 1: what is your typical itinerary? There? We would go to school,

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Speaker 1: whichol we went to private school. At first. I went

362
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Speaker 1: to public school, to school called Fairfax High and Los

363
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Speaker 1: Angeles and that only lasted so long until after the

364
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Speaker 1: Sullivan Show and the hit records, the students chase us away.

365
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Speaker 1: That we moved to Beverly Hills and I went to

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Speaker 1: another school by the name of Universal High School, and

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Speaker 1: that last I was in that school two months. Then

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Speaker 1: they figured out, we can't go to a public school.

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Speaker 1: So you guys were just that too famous to even do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had a few hit records out and the kids

371
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Speaker 1: were like recognizing us and they would peak in the

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Speaker 1: class and that whole thing and screaming girls running down

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Speaker 1: the hall and that whole thing. How did I feel?

374
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Speaker 1: I mean, didn't feel like a goldfish or like it was.

375
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Speaker 1: It was kind of scary because all the all the

376
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: dudes wanted to your butt, jealousy, jealous and that whole thing,

377
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Speaker 1: you know. So they figured, these guys can't go to

378
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Speaker 1: school here, we got to put him in a private school.

379
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Speaker 1: How close was for your public school experiences? How close

380
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Speaker 1: was what we know as l a gang culture in

381
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Speaker 1: those public schools? Like did you have to worry about that? Well?

382
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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember my brother was dating this young

383
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Speaker 1: lady body and they Kathy Bockham and Dorsey High School

384
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: is in Gary as well, not Gary, I'm sorry, Los Angeles,

385
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: and talking about Jackie Jackie and this other guy from

386
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: Dorsey really dug this girl and he came over, brought

387
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: about four or five guys over to Fairfax, calling theirself

388
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: gonna whoop my butt, you know, and they didn't know

389
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: that we're from Gary and you may sing and talk

390
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: about ABC and girl, I think I love you, but

391
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: we can put some but when we have to, because

392
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: we grew up in the hood, you know, and my

393
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: father had always told us to take care of ourselves

394
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: because what he would do he would invite all the

395
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Speaker 1: kids in the neighborhood over on Saturdays and have boxing matches,

396
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: make us box the kids, and that wasn't I was

397
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: wondering how real that team was. Oh yeah, oh yeah.

398
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you, how much should we consider

399
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: of that story, the Jackson, the story that is referring

400
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: to the American Dream? How much a lot of it

401
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 1: is true? You know, my father was rough, but he

402
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: wasn't as rough as they portrayed him. They dramatized he's

403
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: a black daddy, right, I haven't left daddy anywhere. So yeah,

404
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, how often was the That's the

405
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: thing I never had because you know, because the age

406
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: gap between me and my siblings. What your last name

407
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 1: is love? So that now I never I never had that,

408
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: Like you'nna get my brother, you know, like that's that's

409
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: the one thing you never mess You would never mess

410
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: with Yeah, you would never mess with the youngest person

411
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,640
Speaker 1: on any block, because they could always say I'm gonna

412
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: get my cousin you Like, that's what that freshion on

413
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: Tito because he wanted to Oh yeah, I was about

414
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: to say. He always thought you were the oldest. Any

415
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not I'm not your Yeah, I'm like

416
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: two and a half years younger than Jackie. But Jermaine

417
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: used to always start fights in the elementary school and

418
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: carry and he was started. He was started. Then leave

419
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: me there to fight his battle. Didn't run home and

420
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: say mother, Tito fighting. Yeah, he did that part a

421
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: few times. Socially, how do you guys pair off as

422
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: far as peers? Like who is your Yeah, I know

423
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: that all of you are close, YadA, YadA, YadA whatever,

424
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: but like who's your road dog? Who? Who are who

425
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: are the road dog groups in the Jackson family or

426
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: Jermaine and I hunger I hung out together, Um, Martin

427
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: and Michael course hung together. And Jackie just mingled damn

428
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: with all of us. He was like big brother telling

429
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: us what to do. It's time to rehearse. No, you

430
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: can't do that. We got to rehearse. You know, so

431
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: he's the alpha. Yeah, yeah, he was father figure, he

432
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: was older than everyone, the responsible, yes, okay, who was

433
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: the snitch in the family, the tattle tale? Hold, okay,

434
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: tell everything? He tells so much you tell on the South,

435
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: you don't even That's usually how it works out the family.

436
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,239
Speaker 1: You know what, you're You're right about that, You're right

437
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: about that. There's um uh. Harry from Motown once played

438
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: me in tape of there's an ep K, well not

439
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: an ePK, but kind of an audio ePK of just

440
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: like you know, rapping with the Jackson five whatever, where

441
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: you guys are just talking for a half hour about

442
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: your hobbies and all that stuff. But Jermaine all of

443
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: his all of his portions were about like kind of

444
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: provoking the brothers like Michael, maybe that time when you

445
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: got in trouble for Dada Da Da and Tito. Remember

446
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: that time you got in trouble. I was like, yo,

447
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: like why he said, what the hell? Um what? I'm

448
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: also very curious about, uh, you and your brother Jermaine's

449
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: craft as um as guitarists and bass players. Now, I

450
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: know that Motown had a strict system, which, of course

451
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: you long to get away from once you went to Epic.

452
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: But I will say that based on the evidence of

453
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: a lot of live tapes that I've heard of the

454
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: concerts and uh, especially with going to Indiana, the special

455
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: going back to Indiana, that yeah, you two were at

456
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: the top of your game as far as like covering,

457
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: like really in and in fine form, what the Funk

458
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: Brothers would do on record and all those things. Because

459
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: back of the Jackson Five early days of doing concert tours,

460
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: our band contents consists of myself and Germaine and Ronnie

461
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: Ransoffer on oregon and Johnny Jackson on drums, and that

462
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: was the band. So how often were you who was

463
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: the m d of that particular of just being rehearsals?

464
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: Actually I was, you know, I was pretty much. How

465
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: were the early shows crafted? Not the adult period of

466
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: the Jackson's but like the early shows, Well, you're talking

467
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: prior to Motown, not prior to Motown like once you

468
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: guys were doing Motown. Because one one thing that I

469
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: think that our audience doesn't understand, like when you're on

470
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: your first two records, sometimes you have to do cover songs.

471
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: We did cover and we did a lot of the

472
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: album album songs we had, but a lot of those

473
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: songs were covers as well, So basically that's what we did.

474
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: We covered temptations or whether it was four Tops or whoever. Yeah,

475
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: we did a lot of covers. Then who were you, Well,

476
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm curious about your record collection, like by the by

477
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: the time that you moved to l am certain that

478
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: you sort of cumulated and the Miracles of course, all

479
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: the Motown attempts and all that kind of stuff. Oh jays,

480
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: we follow who was your go to like your favorite

481
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: who were your Jackson's? Like, who is your favorite group?

482
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: Was the Temptationous really as far as a group, Yes,

483
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: Temptationous We love to sly Okay, So were you guys

484
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: at all thrown off being as though you were able

485
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: to see in real time? Were you kind of thrown

486
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: off by the Norman Whitfield period of that group, like

487
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: to go from what they were the smooth presentation of

488
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: what I assume that is the blueprint of what you

489
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: guys were. Two suddenly they're hippie. Let's keep up with

490
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: sly Stone period I think seventeen minute intros And yeah,

491
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: we were basically just trying to follow out you know, uh,

492
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: for Sly and the family Stone is very musical. You know,

493
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: they're a little different type of setup than a Temptations

494
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: Stations type of group. They're more musical, so and we

495
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: enjoyed that, you know, like songs like thank You and

496
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: all this stuff. You know, Sly was the man. You know,

497
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: we love Billy Preston as well. Were you able to

498
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: go to concert like how often would you see other

499
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: shows that weren't you any time off? Not that off

500
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: unless you're on the show or were running across some

501
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: somewhere somehow. Yeah, was there any act that not even

502
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: feeling like they might be a threat, but like that's

503
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: the level we need to get to. Like the stair

504
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: Steps five Stairsteps was one of those groups that we

505
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: used to look at and say, that's what we have

506
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: to be, like you know, or that was that rival

507
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: you know how you have a rival group or whatever?

508
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what was it? Because I've only seen like

509
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: maybe one or two performances of theirs, Like what was

510
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: it about their presentation that well? I think we love

511
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: the way they dressed, the way they carried themselves, and

512
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: they were professionals. You know, we were trying to get

513
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: to that stage in our game, you know, so they

514
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: had it already. They would come over to the policy

515
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: and just tear it up. The young ladies would scream

516
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: and holler and chased them all stage, and that's what

517
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: we want. How how frightening was the Apollo experience even

518
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: though I mean I'm talking about past amateur hour, once

519
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: you guys were even established, Like, was there still feel

520
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: fear of like we still better rocket or else? Yeah? Yeah,

521
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: we never really concentrated on, uh like trying to go

522
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: pass what we thought we could have been. We just

523
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: did what we can do, did our best at what

524
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: we could do, and that that usually turned out to

525
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: be pretty cool. So that's where that was. Um. I

526
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: know that in the vaults and Moved Town there are

527
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: hundreds like TUPAC level, Prince level of volume of finished

528
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: recorded songs, songs that are fully mixed in everything, um,

529
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: and not you know, the final nine or ten songs

530
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: that make it. Particular Jackson's album like I think at

531
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: last count, I saw at least somewhere like two hundred

532
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: plus songs. So what what is the process of how

533
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: songs were divided or like, how did you guys make decisions? Well,

534
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: we can make that those types of these sessions. They

535
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: just told you. We would come home from school right

536
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: in the studio every day if we didn't have a

537
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: concert or on the road, would go straight to the

538
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: studio studio and do our homework in the studio, get

539
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: home about ten o'clock at night, and that was it.

540
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: We used to do a song a day, you know,

541
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: background and lead vocals, and if we had any clean up,

542
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: do it on the weekend. So, I mean, whose decision

543
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: was it? Too? Like? Was it everything? Like? Okay, So

544
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: here's some ten songs and what do you guys, what

545
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: do you guys dig? And well, I think Motile pretty

546
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: much picked the songs that we were recorded, and Uh

547
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: with Hal Davis and the corporation, Freddy Parent and all

548
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: those guys, you know, they already had it laid out

549
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: for us. They had the keys and all those type

550
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: of things, and they cut the tracks and have us

551
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: to come in later and do the vocals on them.

552
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: So the various producers James Carmichael, Hal David, Uh, the

553
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: Mozelle brothers for a second, Richards France Mizelle, who did you?

554
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: Who did you were? The brothers particularly favor as a producer. Well,

555
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: we We loved working with Hal Davis because he was funny.

556
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: He's you know. He We would joke a lot in

557
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: in the studio, and he was so serious about it

558
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: and we're little kids just plan on the mic and

559
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: not serious. And he had pushed record waiting here. We

560
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: just started laughing and come on, guys, come on you

561
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: you know. He was really really a lot of fun.

562
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: But we also enjoyed the Corporation, which was Deep Richard's

563
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 1: fun my Zelle and Freddy parent and Barry Gordy they

564
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: called themselves the Corporation, and they were a lot of fun.

565
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: They were a lot of fun as well. They were

566
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: young men just finishing college with the musical scholarships, and

567
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: they were great writers. So how long were you guys

568
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: given a particular song to learn and absorb? We learned

569
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: on spot, learned in the studio. Okay, So like alright,

570
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: so home Along and Dance, which songs like twelve minutes

571
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: and all of you have designated parts. So would they

572
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: take you one by one or is it just certain

573
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: parts were taken one by one, Some projects were taken

574
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: as a room. And uh, like I said, we learned

575
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: that song right on the spot. You know, we're going

576
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: to the studio and uh in the control room sit

577
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: with the producer and he'll go through with this line

578
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: that this is your life, your main this your line, Michael,

579
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 1: your line, brothers, this you know, and that whole thing.

580
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: So wait, can you answer a question for me? I

581
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: always wanted to know this, Okay, be honest. When the

582
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: when you guys were recording Rhythm Child, mh was there

583
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: a feeling in the air like, Okay, it's gonna be

584
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: a bigger It's gonna be bigger than the Dance Machine

585
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: because basically it's the same narrative and the same DNA

586
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: as Dancing Machine. So in my mind, I felt like

587
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: you guys really felt like she's a rhythm child. It's

588
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: going to be like the new Dance Machine in the

589
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. Well, that's the machine is on this song.

590
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: You know that song is so magical. I love this

591
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: song and I didn't think that so I was just

592
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: doing what they told us to do, Okay. I always

593
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: wanted to know who brought in I'll bet you for

594
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: the ABC album Baby, Yeah, I bet you. I can't

595
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: remember that. I think that may have been Uh, I

596
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: can't remember. I'm sorry, Well, I think Barry was hands

597
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: on at least for the ABC record as far as

598
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: navigating it, very very would let the producers work with

599
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: us and they would send a copy of the track

600
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: or whatever we had did that day to him. He

601
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: would study it. Didn't give them corner notes and they

602
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: do you guys know George Clinton at all? Or was

603
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: it just like no here random funking delic song for

604
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: you guys that we didn't know George Clinton route. I'll

605
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: bet you actually it's a funk a dellic song too.

606
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: Thank you? You knew what I was thinking? Did you

607
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: all right? So you? I mean you were prominent Contrary

608
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 1: to uh opinion, all the brothers had parts on records,

609
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: including Marlon. I didn't realize to maybe like maybe ten

610
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 1: years ago, that that's him riffing on Mama God brand

611
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: New think don't say no. In my mind, always always

612
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: your main riffing. And then I realized it once I

613
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: listened closer. But um was it was it your desire being?

614
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: So you're the only minus Marland, you were the only

615
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: one that didn't do any solo projects. Yeah, I'm well,

616
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, they give me those parts that nobody wanted

617
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: you know the low part. You know, I've always had

618
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: the low voice in the family. And so, like I said,

619
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: you said, nobody wanted like yeah, well, you know, you know,

620
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: Temptations was idolized group that we are Franklin exactly. So

621
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: they looked at me like Melvin Franklin and that's where

622
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: you stay now, you low voice. So I never got

623
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: that opportunity to sing. But I didn't only sing low parts.

624
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: I would all so double of the notes in the background.

625
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: Then they put me in and do a little base

626
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 1: bottom part or whatever. And sometimes I'll just make up

627
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: a part just so I can be on the record too. Okay, Okay,

628
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: So you did get to do that, because I was

629
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: sitting here wondering like when did you guys get to

630
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: touch the records, because you said for the longest time,

631
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: y'all just go in, you know your parts. At what

632
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 1: point were you able to have a voice and saying

633
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: what do we do this? How are you feeling watching

634
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: your label mets uh, Marvin Gay and Stevie Wonder especially

635
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: go through such a creative uh kind of blossoming blossoming

636
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: that you guys weren't able to have, Like how did

637
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 1: how did you feel in observing, like when you're getting

638
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: your copy of Intervisions and uh fulfilling this first finale,

639
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: It's like, this is what we want to do. Well,

640
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, we are always uh idolized people like Stevie,

641
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: you know, and wanted to do stuff like him, and

642
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: we actually asked to be produced by him. We did Buttercup, Yeah, exactly,

643
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: we did Buttercup and uh and you're supposed to keep

644
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: you loving me. I didn't realize that was there's a

645
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: there's an original someone, let's get serious. I didn't know

646
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: Buttercup was released. Yeah, yeah, ten years ago now, yeh

647
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: finally yeah, once. But I have a follow up question

648
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: REGARDSS when they when the motown was putting that out.

649
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: I actually got invited over to the offices to um

650
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: hear a lot of the tracks that they were going through,

651
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: and one of the tracks that they played us, um

652
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: it was I think the title was something like Tito Steak.

653
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: It was. It was. It was introduced to us as

654
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: it was going to be a Tito solo track. I've

655
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: seen that real, but I've never heard it. Yeah, actually

656
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: I got to hear it. I got to hear I

657
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: can't remember what it sounds like, but I do remember

658
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: hearing it. So what what do you remember about that?

659
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything. Yeah, don't even sound for him.

660
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: Maybe that was the last song that I recorded before

661
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: we left. So you're gonna go make my questions. I

662
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: wanna Well, I'm getting there. I'm getting to the bridge now.

663
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: My personal favorite period of the Jackson's is probably the

664
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: period that all of you kind of like strugg at,

665
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: which is seventy four Vegas Variety Show period predestiny. So

666
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: let's just say, like Vegas to Golden Places. What were

667
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: you personally feeling at that time as far as where

668
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: the brothers were concerned. I mean, your brother Michael expressed

669
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: that he felt like we were old hat and he

670
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy doing the variety show and all those things.

671
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure you heard it to be because

672
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: when you're in the midst this, you have what we

673
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: call haters and the people just after I think we

674
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: had our first four number ones, and then we started

675
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: having songs that didn't make it to the number one,

676
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: and people used to come up and say, you guys

677
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: have finished. You know you're not gonna Oh yeah, that

678
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: gave us motivation, of course, and we've always wanted to

679
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: write music and produce some of our own stuff, and

680
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: that was our reason for moving on to Columbia Records

681
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: at that time epic because they gave us that opportunity

682
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: to have a song or two on our our albums,

683
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: you know, like the Jackson's that was produced by Kenny

684
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: Gamble Leon Huff. You know, they worked with us with

685
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: the songs we had, you know, they and put it

686
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: their their involvement and made it happen. So that was

687
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: a very exciting moment for the brothers to know that

688
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: they were capable of writing songs that people would love

689
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: and mike and buy. So you yourself, you didn't enjoy

690
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: doing the variety show or it didn't bother me at all,

691
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, I do. I was one of the members

692
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: that whatever it is, I'm going to be there, whether

693
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: we're playing in a in a closet or plan in

694
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: the arena, I'm going to be there. So is that

695
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: because you just loved it so much? Well? I just

696
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: wanted to be a team player. Yeah. And also, I mean,

697
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: like I think it would be like today if someone

698
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: got a reality show, then it's like, all right, we

699
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: gotta get a reality show. So I'm certain for you

700
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: guys it was like wait, Osman's have a variety show

701
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: and shows and Yard now and has our variety show.

702
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: And there was a point where last Night and the

703
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: Pips had a variety show, so Brady Bunch tried a

704
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: variety show exactly. No, I know you're trying to be funny,

705
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: but no, that's what I was. Was it dop As

706
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: drum break orang so um speaking of the variety or

707
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: not the right but the Veggas? What was it like?

708
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: You know, the Veggas residency started like two months after

709
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: you guys got back from Senegal, So what was what

710
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: was it like? You know the difference. Why do you

711
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: guys get your history from That's true, that's true. I

712
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 1: mean you guys know more about me that were following.

713
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: I never forgot everything. You know, it's been a long road.

714
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: But we uh was that the first time you guys

715
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: been to Africa? Or yes, she was. We went to

716
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 1: sink all about What was it like? It was very

717
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: exciting getting off the plane and that's where Michael got

718
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: that Mama say Mamasa, that's what they were chatting to us.

719
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 1: What we first went to Africa? They were singing, playing

720
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: the drums, Mama saying mamasa Michael, Mama saying mamasa masa.

721
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: You know what it means. I don't know how gonna say,

722
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: take out that garbage? Um. Well, also, are there any

723
00:44:55,760 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: memories whatsoever about um? Because there's an infamous vote. What

724
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: you guys hanging with the Marley's in Jamaica? Is there

725
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: any memories of that period? Did you guys know that

726
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: Bob Marley was royalty? Was it just like weird guy

727
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: with here? Well, we had did this show in Jamaica

728
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: with the Walers, and Bob Marley was there as courts

729
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: and the next day he invited us over to hang out.

730
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: And so we go to Bob Marley's compound and the

731
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: guys hanging out in the trees, smoking the dubes and

732
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and it was really exciting, and he

733
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: took us through the whole compound, show this where he worked,

734
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: wrote this song, where he recorded and what have you.

735
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: And uh, I just remember that very very much. It

736
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,720
Speaker 1: was a great period. And back then Bob Marley was popular,

737
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: but he's not. He wasn't last today. You know, he's

738
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: everywhere now because you're hanging out with the Marley's. But

739
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: from what we know, you guys are were a very

740
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: religious family, and you know, of course the legend of

741
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: your father being strict. How did you navigate or how

742
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: did did he ever say any give you disclaimers before

743
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: y'all did this or that, or I know he was

744
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: but but he did he say you better not do this?

745
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: You bet you know? Oh yeah, we know that black Daddy,

746
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: We knew, we knew what you know not? So so

747
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: do I guess that you Jackson's never got a taste

748
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: of the Bob Marley Ganja, No, we just asked that

749
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: they smoke. We well, that was the second question I

750
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: wanted to know. They tipped the Bob Marley and then

751
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: John just never got a taste of them. I never,

752
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: I just started smoking. And I'm like, I got bound

753
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: on me right now. So wait before I before I

754
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: jumped to Sony, before I jumped the epic um. By

755
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: this point, you're the Jackson five end quote. Um. And

756
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: I know that you were the first to get married

757
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: and have kids or whatnot, So I'm assuming that you

758
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 1: were domesticated. But I mean, I don't know. I just meant.

759
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: But the thing is is that you're the Jackson five,

760
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: so thrown at you. What was what was? How was

761
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: it hanging in Hollywood? Like I know you have a

762
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 1: massive car or had seemed like fosy U T K

763
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: card and everything like anti cars where you think, first

764
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: of all, yeah, how many I hate asking black questions.

765
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: That's the one that I never want to do, Like,

766
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: so how many mentions do you have? How many cars

767
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 1: do you? But I feel like you're the original Jay Leno?

768
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: Like what was it about antique cars? And because anytime

769
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: I've seen photos of you, it's like you're in a

770
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: garage with an antique car. So like, I just always

771
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: loved mechanics, you know, even when I was a young kid,

772
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: you know, built mom bicycle out the Junkyard and then

773
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: did a gold card and then got into cars. I love,

774
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: especially the older stuff like in the twenties and that.

775
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 1: So it's always been a love of mine. And how

776
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: easy was it to get access to that back then?

777
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 1: I'm just saying now, like if I buy a pair

778
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: of Jordan's, like my business managers like a man and

779
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: I'm kind of cool now, but still it's like, amen,

780
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: but how many cars were you for Jordan's? Just for sneakers.

781
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: But how many cars did you collect back then? Um?

782
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: I had about maybe a dozen. But I have a

783
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 1: warehouse that I put them in right right now, I

784
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: have about twenty cars. Can I have a car? And

785
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: how many do you let your kids drop? Well you're grown,

786
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: they do, but they don't have those cars, No, they don't.

787
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: They can buy the Yeah, yeah, he got some rare

788
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: stuffy But is it like, are there cars just to collect?

789
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: And I mean there are things I collect that I

790
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: would never utilize. I got pair of Jordan's I would

791
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: never wear because they will explode. But I'm just saying, yeah,

792
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: that's the that's the thing. You gotta know. Jordan's will

793
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: explode after thirty years. I get found out the hard way.

794
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 1: So I get a pleasure out of buying a car.

795
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: I'll find a car for seven hundred dollars and then

796
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: you'll hook it up. I'll redo it, take every nothing

797
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: vote out of it and have it powdered, blasted and

798
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: really the original Jay Leno And this is you your stuff? Like,

799
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: are you one of those people that can put together

800
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: that car? Kid? I got the carbureted. My hands have

801
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: probably got grease onto the finger nails. Now from from

802
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: some car I've worked out so even to this day,

803
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 1: like working on anti cars, like your hobby. Yeah, and

804
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: I've been building lately. I've been building a lot of

805
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: the surfer type sixties valse wagon buses. Yeah. I love

806
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: those things. Yeah, I got about nine. But you can

807
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: put the seats in them. Well, I'm just saying, you know,

808
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 1: January twenties my birthday. I'm just saying, he just said

809
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: he get away. Yeah, so well, never mind, Okay, how

810
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: I think of something? Okay, so going to Philadelphia, Um,

811
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: by the way, Uh, my elementary school was next to

812
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: Philly International and Broad Streets. So once once in a

813
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 1: blue moon, in second or third grade, i'd see you

814
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: guys like going and going out. It's gotta be freaky

815
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: as a kid to see that Jackson's going. Well, I've seen,

816
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: I've seen. Actually, what's weird is that you guys would

817
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: even visit to say hi, even after the fact. Like

818
00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 1: I think once before a Destiny concert, you guys stopped

819
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: by Broad Street and I only knew because like every

820
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: human being in my school like was out in the

821
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: streets chasing you guys. That's how we know that Jackson's

822
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: are in proximity. Um, but in kind of the slow

823
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 1: process that eventually led to the Destiny album leaving uh Philadelphia. Um,

824
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: first of all, how how long were you guys physically infilially?

825
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: Were you only there for like studio time or did

826
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: you like live there? Now we are only there for

827
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: studio time and the week get called in and we're

828
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: do an album in two weeks and do everything and

829
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: move on. Okay, so there for two weeks? Oh yeah,

830
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: So how long did it take for you guys to

831
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: convince Ron Wisner and and I guess yeah, Freddie Dedman

832
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: and Walter get Nicough to like, okay, we got to

833
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: do this on our own, Like, how long did it? Well?

834
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 1: We went to Epic Records saying that we want to

835
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: write some music and produce are some of our songs?

836
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 1: And what had happened? We had a couple of songs

837
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: on the earlier albums, the Coin Place album and the

838
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: Jackson's album and they did very well, and uh, they

839
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: gave us the green light to do our next album,

840
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: and which was Destiny, and we wrote all the songs.

841
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: And so when you guys were doing the process, what

842
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: was the division of labor for that album? Because now

843
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: you guys have to answer to yourself, like did you

844
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 1: have a family meeting? And well, I think we already

845
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: had some songs. Maybe Jackie had a song or two.

846
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: I know I had a couple of songs, and Michael

847
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: had some stuff, and we get together and write the

848
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 1: lyrics and help each other out on the song, and uh,

849
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: write about situations, whether it was my mother and her

850
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: politeness or whatever, and that's pretty much how it came out.

851
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: He wait, wait, wait, wait, all right? Without getting personal

852
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: pan pizza, okay, I often felt I always wanted to

853
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: know what did you guys feel about the lyrics of Destiny,

854
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: because I personally felt that was kind of Michael's passive,

855
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: aggressive way of saying, guys, I want to do stuff

856
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: on my own, and I don't know how to tell

857
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: you guys, because to to look at the lyrical content,

858
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: I felt that that was his of all of all

859
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 1: the I want to break free themes that he's ever

860
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: had in his career, that that was the most explicit, direct,

861
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: but kind of underhanded. I mean, Destiny goes there, things

862
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: I do for you goes there, pushed me away, goes there.

863
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: Even though it's dis guy says a love song, but

864
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: espectly that's what you give for being polite, which I mean,

865
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: was there ever a moment where you guys were just

866
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 1: chilling one day and it's like listen, hey, wait a minute,

867
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: Like was it but you said that was about your

868
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: mom's Yes, yes, and and uh things I do for you? Yes, yes, yes,

869
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: we had that. I'm gonna go read those lios. I

870
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: mean as much as talking. Okay, since you kind of

871
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: opened that rabbit hole. Since you kind of opened that

872
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:44,359
Speaker 1: rabbit hole and we're black, can I assume that since

873
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: you I don't know any successful black person that doesn't

874
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: go through survivor's guilt, do you understand what survivor's guild is?

875
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 1: As far as if someone's successful, then there's kind of

876
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: the unspoken obligat to worry, need to take people with

877
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: you mhm. And I know that there's friends and family

878
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 1: and cousin Ray Ray and the cat you went to

879
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: school with, and let me hold a little something, and

880
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: our phone bill is cutting off, our phones getting cut

881
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: off next week in dada da da da, Like how

882
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 1: are you able to matrix dodge or avoid? You know,

883
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: let me hold something real quick? Like, yo, man, can

884
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: can you help her, Like, am I assuming that if

885
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: these songs are factual in terms of people using and

886
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, how are you able to avoid

887
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: or how easy are you with saying the word no?

888
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: You know how easy? How easy? How easy is it

889
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: to say the word no? Like again, like, hey, we're

890
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: down on luck? Da dada had school tuition next week? Yo,

891
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: can y'all help out? Ya da da da? Like I

892
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: just I know no successful black person that manages to

893
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: avoid And you're the Jackson's, which in everyone's mind in

894
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: America is like family royalty. So how hard is it

895
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: to avoid hanger ones or people that ask ask, ask, ask, ask, take, take, take,

896
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: take take That still happens today. You know that's comes

897
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: with the territory. As you know, you're going to meet

898
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: people that's hanging with you. Just meet another brother. I

899
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: don't mean strangers though, people people that you know just

900
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: think cousins. They haven't gotten the clue. Yeah, you've been

901
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: doing this for fifty years and the same people, they're

902
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: still the Jackson's. I'm saying people to still asking that's no.

903
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: You meet new people that still acts, but yeah you

904
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 1: can I have a car. Yeah, I mean I'm trying

905
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: to you know, I try to avoid got your journalism

906
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I know that it has to be

907
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: awkward being a powerful family that you know, you guys

908
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,439
Speaker 1: have a hard time just managing and navigating your own

909
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: thing without the eye roll of man is like, so

910
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: is it that you change your phone numbers a lot

911
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: where you're just on tour and you know that they

912
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: have cell phones back then, so you're lucky. But we

913
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: had a lot of protection from security and those type

914
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: of things. People look after, especially the people of Motown.

915
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: You know, even when we would go on the road

916
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: or whatever, and if the other other Motown people around,

917
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: they would be like our parents, you know, they would

918
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: give us advice, don't touch drugs, don't do this, do that.

919
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: So we were schooled by the Motown staff and the artists.

920
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: Is it easy to still go to family reunions or

921
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 1: your high school or hang with friends? Like are you

922
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: still friends with people you're friends with four years ago?

923
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 1: And I'm friends with friends that I have from Gary, Indiana.

924
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: That's a miracle. That's Tito. Is everybody friends with people

925
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: from Gary? Because I feel like we expect this from

926
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: Tito for some reasons. You don't know you and we

927
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: just feel like you still. I don't know, it's just

928
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: my whole buddies. Yeah. I lost a lot of people

929
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: in my life, a bunch of people. I just lost

930
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: one of my high school friends a couple of weeks ago. Sorry.

931
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: Another important element of your development as an entertainer is

932
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: the live show presentation. Be Jackson Liveshield presentation. So in

933
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: your in your mind with theatrics now entering the realm

934
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: like Earth on Fire with their theatrics and levitating and

935
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: uh Asley Brothers in smoke Machines in Parliament, Funkadelic. There

936
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: was theatrics. Were you seeing shows then? And wasn't like yo,

937
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: you gotta see blah blah blah like what it was.

938
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: It was a period when like you're saying, you know,

939
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: Earth winning Fire, they always had the great show, some

940
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:39,760
Speaker 1: type of magic illusions or whatever, and uh we felt

941
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: that's where it's going. We got to do something too similar,

942
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: you know, to keep the concerts exciting, to make two

943
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: people want to come see you. And that's what it

944
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: was like back then. You know, we're playing arenas or

945
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: hopes in twenty thousand people. You know how you're gonna

946
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: get all these people uh in this arena, and you

947
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: had to have a show that offer more than just

948
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: the music. It had to be I candy as well.

949
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: So so what was that initial pitch, Like like, Okay,

950
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,400
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're all gonna get in this box and

951
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: then it's gonna be like pitch dark, and then it's

952
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 1: gonna explode, and then we're gonna come out with new outfits.

953
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: Like you can have people in the business that have

954
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: these creative ideas that come up with the props and

955
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: things of that nature. Whatever you can imagine, they'll try

956
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: to make it happen. But this was new at the time,

957
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 1: so it's I mean, now it's nothing to do, you know,

958
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: for you to say, all right, Kanye West, we were

959
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: gonna levitate you on the stage throughout the stadium. But

960
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: back then, you guys were definitely like I thought my

961
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: cousins were lying, They're like yeah, and then they got

962
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: in a box and exploded. You just lying, Marky like,

963
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: how do you believe it? Until I saw my own

964
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: Jackson show, I was like, oh, they really are exploding.

965
01:00:53,640 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: So even at even Envy the initial days of of

966
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 1: those tours, like there wasn't I fear like, hey man, like,

967
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: there's too much like with the explosions and all that stuff. No, No,

968
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: it was exciting, you know the only thing that was

969
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:18,040
Speaker 1: detrimental was the commercial we did, the Pepsi commercial. Have

970
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: you seen that final tape? I finally saw it like

971
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: two so's when it came online like two years ago.

972
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: I didn't really have you seen it? Do you know

973
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: what's crazy in whenever they listen to this, it's it's

974
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: people out. There's a whole generation who do not know

975
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. Okay, So there was a Pepsi

976
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: commercial shot in which um said explosions that I was

977
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: speaking of. Uh Sparks went to Michael's hair and then

978
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: was it you that put your jacket on top of

979
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: his head? No, he called out my name. I was

980
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: on the other side of the stage. He called out

981
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: my name for help, but I was too far away.

982
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: I think it was one of the prop men who

983
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: thought that quickly. And like two or three years ago,

984
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,479
Speaker 1: they finally put the actual with his hair on fire,

985
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: and I was I didn't realize it was that serious.

986
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 1: Like it was. It was seven seconds of that and

987
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: it would have been a whole new story. Yoh, like

988
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: what was well, of course, obviously, what was the feeling

989
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: of that? Like it was it hurt us very much.

990
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: You know, we knew he was hurting and that he

991
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: was had these serious burns to his scalp and that

992
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: whole thing. And from that point I felt that was

993
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 1: the beginning of a lot of problems for him. Yeah,

994
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: he needed he stayed in pain a long time. I

995
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: just never told us or but you guys knew that

996
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: he was. Yeah, I'm circling back on that's what you

997
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: get lyrics. I'm sorry, y'all. I just wanted Mama Catherine,

998
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: what did she have? Bigger things? What does she want?

999
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: I know she had a lot and she had nine children,

1000
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: but was there more that she had wanted in her life?

1001
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: Like what did you think she was? Kind of feels

1002
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: like you're missing out on or can you know, well,

1003
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 1: you know, I may have twisted that that song things

1004
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: I do for you as my mom, that's what you get,

1005
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: Like that's Johnny Jacks, Thank god, that's Johnny Jacks. Yeah,

1006
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: oh wow, okay, that's better. Thank you? Come on, man,

1007
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: why are you chopping these gyms? And then you know ambiguous,

1008
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: I gotta go home and figure this movie Excube out.

1009
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Um so with with the Victory Tour leading

1010
01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: up to it and how mammoth it us what were

1011
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know again, one person s having could

1012
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: be another person's health. But to be on the inside

1013
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: of what was then the biggest grand tour of all time, Like,

1014
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: what are your memories of the Victory Tour? Was it

1015
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: sort of like it's fun or was it like it's

1016
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: getting to be too much? Or no? It was never

1017
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: too much because being a black band and probably the

1018
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: first black band to do those type of venues, it

1019
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: was a pleasure to represent and do those. We would

1020
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 1: go into a city like New York or wherever we too,

1021
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: three shows at the stadium and sell them out, and

1022
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: that was never heard of for black bands to do that,

1023
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: you know. So we felt we were, you know, making

1024
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 1: a name ourself, creating history, making landmark. About to say,

1025
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: I gotta ask about we can change the world. Yes,

1026
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: very uh, very okay. Speaking of Bob Marley, I always

1027
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: felt that that was your kind of world music exactly.

1028
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: I love rage right. Even on my Tito Times album,

1029
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: I have a reggae song that I just sat there. Yeah,

1030
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: so yeah, I was gonna say, was that your inspiration

1031
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: is sort of do like a world music? Yes? Yes, yes,

1032
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: the song is about changing the world. You've got a

1033
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: lot of different styles in you. Because I was listening

1034
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: to one song and I was like, you got the

1035
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 1: country in You do country stuff too, you know, we

1036
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: started out singing was like cotton Field exactly. When I

1037
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: heard that, I was like, yo, what do they do

1038
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: about that? But yeah, you know by my music is blues.

1039
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: I love blues. Who do you consider like god? Especially

1040
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: to be around in Chicago those times? Were you able

1041
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:05,080
Speaker 1: to see these legends? Uh? No? No, no really no,

1042
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: So you guys never played blues clubs and Albert and

1043
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: Now I never saw aber King or any of those

1044
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: guys play. I would hear him on record. The albercallis

1045
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: Aber King, Jamie Reid, Bob King? Such, who's your favorite

1046
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: blues guitarist player as far as tone and Bob King

1047
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 1: and Abercollins really love him? Yeah? Wow, okay, okay. I

1048
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: have an article here from right On Magazine October nineteen

1049
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: seventy one. You also mentioned Jamie Hendricks was one of

1050
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: your favorites. Jimmie really, what were your thoughts or Ernie

1051
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 1: Eisley and as far as the direction that the Isles took, well,

1052
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: he's dope, Ernie Stope on the guitar. Yeah, I love

1053
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: his tone. Okay, so I know that the fruit doesn't

1054
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: fall far from the tree and that your son's would

1055
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: be Yeah. Ever, miss not to mention your son's also,

1056
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: uh have a you know, a successful scening career as well. Um,

1057
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 1: were you a little skeptical and knowing what you know

1058
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: what the businesses, We're skeptical and sort of uh encouraging

1059
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:24,040
Speaker 1: them to well, like you said, knowing the show business

1060
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 1: and the ups and downs of the business. I want.

1061
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: They were very good athletes. They played a lot of baseball.

1062
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: My middle side was right number five in the state

1063
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: for baseball pitching, and he was Barry Bond was very

1064
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: looking at him and wanted to him to go to

1065
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 1: the Giants training camp and trained with him. And at

1066
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,920
Speaker 1: the time he was recording his first album with the brothers,

1067
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: his brothers and uh, they they hung up the gloves

1068
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: and watered the prisoners pursue songs really and I felt

1069
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: I used to tell them, I say, hey, you can

1070
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: doing both. You know, when the baseball season ain't happen

1071
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 1: getting under the microphone. You can do both things. Was

1072
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: this t J or Trell? The t J was just

1073
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: as as as brilliant as an athlete as well. Mh wow. Okay,

1074
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: so they wanted to pursue sports, well, they didn't exercise that.

1075
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 1: They wanted to be entertainers because of me and their

1076
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: uncle's of course, how hard is it to keep them ground?

1077
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: Didn't humble when they're family are superheroes, they're pretty easy.

1078
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 1: You know. When did they realize like, oh shit, like, okay,

1079
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 1: this isn't normal. That's a good question. I don't I

1080
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: don't have the answer for you. But they always loved

1081
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: the business and wanted to be a part of it.

1082
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,759
Speaker 1: You know, like they had gone to a Jackson concert

1083
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 1: when they was super young, and they're looking at the

1084
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: outfits picking off the Ryan songs and decided and then

1085
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: come home and grab bronze and mops and put on

1086
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 1: the record and yeah, and I take the record. Yeah,

1087
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: trying to be like that, don't touch my guitar, didn't

1088
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:18,560
Speaker 1: have it. Don't touch my guitar mount No, No, that

1089
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: didn't happen. I told him, if you're going to do this,

1090
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: you're gonna do this we're not faking it and all that,

1091
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: we're really playing the instruments and really singing. I'd say,

1092
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: if you really want to do it, I'll let you

1093
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: use my instruments. You can go in the studio and

1094
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: mess around and get familiar with things. And they did.

1095
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,560
Speaker 1: Then they showed interests. I got them some lessons and

1096
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: they've learned a few things here and there, and I

1097
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: started putting them under the microphone in the studio. Are

1098
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: there any second generation Jackson's that are just like doctor lawyers? Yeah? Yeah,

1099
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 1: we have accountants and morning kids are accountants and lawyers

1100
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,120
Speaker 1: and like that. He don't want his kids in show business.

1101
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,479
Speaker 1: That's even more important. Yeah, like have some behind the

1102
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:07,479
Speaker 1: somebody got to count the money that you can trust.

1103
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: I see that. Okay. So for you're why why did

1104
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: it take you so long to finally like really developed.

1105
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:21,760
Speaker 1: I don't think it took you that long because long

1106
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: after the the group had left Epic. I've seen you

1107
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: a few times, like you've had your blues review at

1108
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: various clubs. I've seen it a few times. So during

1109
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: that period, uh, late nineties, mid nineties or whatever, like

1110
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 1: what made you decide to like sort of scratch that

1111
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,640
Speaker 1: blues hitch that you had, Well, it's still there, you know,

1112
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: it never goes away. It's part of me, you know.

1113
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: But most of my fans aren't blues, so I was figured,

1114
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna so they still come to the show

1115
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: like waiting for you to sell the funking yeah, the

1116
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:04,600
Speaker 1: whole thing. Absolutely, And I just figured I need to

1117
01:11:04,680 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: do something to satisfy their ears, you know. So I

1118
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 1: decided my first album it's going to be for them,

1119
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 1: you know. And I just pretty much finished the blues

1120
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,120
Speaker 1: album that I'm not ready to release because I'm going

1121
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: to do a Cheeto time too, and maybe third album

1122
01:11:24,360 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: blues record. I just did a recording with George Benson

1123
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: and we did we we we redid rock Me Baby

1124
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 1: George mcras, I'm sorry, okay, So there's yeah yeah, so

1125
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 1: and uh we have a baby stored on the record

1126
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: as well. Does she play or is she? She's a singer.

1127
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 1: She sounds fabulous too. Do you ever just go out

1128
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:56,839
Speaker 1: and surprise people to go to it like a jam session?

1129
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: I mean just I haven't done that too much of

1130
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: my life. I've done it before, but not too much.

1131
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: Some jams sessions, Yeah, we welcome that. You know, well,

1132
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: if the roots do some jams exactly My point were

1133
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 1: you were you surprised at the reception of Tito time

1134
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 1: And I'm not surprised at the positive response, but you know,

1135
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm it's always a risk out there too. I've always

1136
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 1: been very quiet, like I said, and uh, never spoke out.

1137
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: Never never let my you know, pants down or whatever

1138
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 1: you however you want to put it. And uh, heir,

1139
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: but pants is good too. Always hair hair when I

1140
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 1: let my pants down too. But anyhow, but anyhow, I

1141
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,720
Speaker 1: think the fans accepted it very well, so I thank

1142
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: them for that. How often how do you guys divide

1143
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: your time now? Uh with touring and doing like festivals

1144
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:07,679
Speaker 1: all over the world and downtime. Well, people don't understand

1145
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 1: is that people always say to me, you know, this

1146
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: is the last time you've seen your brother I say, well,

1147
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: it's been about two weeks, three weeks, two weeks, three weeks.

1148
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: I say, yeah, are you tired of people asking like

1149
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: when you're alone, like where's the you know, where's it?

1150
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: Like you're attested the hip, you know, but that you've

1151
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: been with them all And if I see my brothers,

1152
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: you know, I might see them every day for a

1153
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: month on the road. You know, when I'm not on

1154
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: the road, I want to get away and enjoying my

1155
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: life a little bit personally. Well, I see how the

1156
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: schedule is now, um, and you guys are you know,

1157
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 1: when it's festival time for Europe and all these other countries.

1158
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys are pretty much together. So I

1159
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: saw you guys when you first started touring, uh like,

1160
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 1: was it two thousand, thousand, eleven um? And compared to

1161
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 1: what it is now some eight nine years later, you

1162
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: guys are like a full fledged operating machine. How do

1163
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: you How do you guys divide that time? Because I

1164
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:22,680
Speaker 1: know that I know that that could be tiresome. I'm

1165
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: one of those people. I don't want to see the schedule,

1166
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to know what I need

1167
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,800
Speaker 1: to do. I'm just gonna do it. Do it, yeah,

1168
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,320
Speaker 1: and you see easier that way easier. I need to

1169
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: know how you prepare because I was I told the

1170
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,720
Speaker 1: guys once I was randomly on a Jackson's tour in

1171
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,200
Speaker 1: London about three or so years ago. And you guys

1172
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: still move your bodies like you did fifty years ago,

1173
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 1: and they're They're like, how many y'all do, like twelve

1174
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: songs at least? How do you prepare physically for something

1175
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 1: like that. It's called not taking drugs and not drink

1176
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 1: and get in your sleep and your rest because Marlin

1177
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: Marlin still, oh my god, Yeah, seriously. Not a stretch,

1178
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 1: not a woman on a yoga, not a not a vegan,

1179
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:13,800
Speaker 1: not a not a not a keto, not a nothing.

1180
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 1: Just Marlin. He said, he don't eat any red in me,

1181
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:22,160
Speaker 1: but he's healthy. You know. We have to, uh, just

1182
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 1: do it. That's all we do. Just do it. Yeah,

1183
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 1: not even a stretch or warm up or Marlin stretches.

1184
01:15:29,280 --> 01:15:31,760
Speaker 1: Of course they stretched. I don't do anything. I look

1185
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: at them. And when did you fall in love with

1186
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 1: the derby? I've been wearing this thing for twenty five years? Maybe? Yeah,

1187
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: back in the day when my kids were rolling around

1188
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 1: the UK, I went into the hattery and I discovered bowlers,

1189
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 1: that's what they Was I wrong in calling it the derby?

1190
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 1: So you're traveling with them in the very early stages

1191
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:00,479
Speaker 1: of three t Yes, were the teenagers? Then? Yes? They were? Okay,

1192
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,520
Speaker 1: so I guess yeah, yeah, they were I think fifteen

1193
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: sixteen and something like that in that age group genal teenagers.

1194
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:12,759
Speaker 1: I see, So what is your what besides the Tito

1195
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:16,759
Speaker 1: t time? What you're contemplating? What's your What is your future?

1196
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: What do you well? My future is to continue doing

1197
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: my solo thing and enjoy it. Of course, work with

1198
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: the brothers. I like to do a blues album and

1199
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:32,560
Speaker 1: do that whole thing. And that's basically all I'm looking for,

1200
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 1: just doing my music. I'm a musician singer, so I

1201
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: want to have complete success in that area. I think

1202
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:46,040
Speaker 1: you're success in that area. I mean you're Jackson. For

1203
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 1: God's sake, you're Jackson. Any other VAM request stive? What?

1204
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, okay, no, he's gonna give me the car.

1205
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure I don't need to request it again. What.

1206
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 1: What's the car you've had the longest of your car?

1207
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: I have a nineteen thirty cavallet Um Model A four

1208
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: that I adore. That's your favorite? It's not my favorite

1209
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,120
Speaker 1: when I had the longest I've had that? Which one

1210
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,600
Speaker 1: is your favorite that you have? I have a nineteen

1211
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:24,280
Speaker 1: Lincoln convertible that I adore. He just made me feel normal.

1212
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 1: Do you just have a regular Corolla, like just to

1213
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: go to the corner Stoy to get toilet papers. He

1214
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 1: go to Gilsen's. He want to go to Gilson's. That's

1215
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: the grocery store. If he goes to about because I

1216
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: live in l A now, so I just okay, yeah,

1217
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 1: I feel you. What is your car? What's your what's

1218
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: your store car? You're run around and do Errand's car?

1219
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 1: Or do you have to stunt every time? I know,

1220
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:57,840
Speaker 1: I actually going in cart needle. I have a few cars,

1221
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: I like, you know, I drive a Fiat and I

1222
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 1: drive a Dodge Realm pickup truck. That's that's a download

1223
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: Underratar car. Yeah, I still consider that stunting. What was

1224
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: the waiting for? You say, like I have a scion

1225
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: or something like he does. That's what that's what quest

1226
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,880
Speaker 1: keeps scion and a key on deck just in case

1227
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: what my one fan chases me down the street before

1228
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: I let you go. Can you just tell one random

1229
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: is there? Is there just a random Jackson story? That's

1230
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 1: a few that you can tell. Well, when we were

1231
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:52,400
Speaker 1: young back in the day and everybody knows what Jermaine

1232
01:18:52,479 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: is like, Betty, just give me, give me a German story.

1233
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 1: We used to have after the show you know the

1234
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: girls were crazy on the stage. Chase us off stage

1235
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: and come to the hotel. We have five girls running

1236
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,000
Speaker 1: through the Hotel's trump good to get up the stairs,

1237
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 1: up the elevators. Put security on the stairwells and at

1238
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:25,280
Speaker 1: the elevators and everywhere. Somehow Jermaine got somebody through what

1239
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: he told me back in the day aunties. Anyhow, Jermaine

1240
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:40,839
Speaker 1: that Jermaine and Michael shared rooms. And he told Michael

1241
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,040
Speaker 1: because he stutters a little bit. He don't do this

1242
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: when he sings, but when he talks he stutters a little.

1243
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,120
Speaker 1: My god, I got a girl coming over. So when

1244
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: she come here, I want you to hide. So so

1245
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 1: I guess the girl knocks on the door. Okay, Michael, Hi, Hi, Mike.

1246
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: Mike his under the bed, right. So the young lady

1247
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: walks in the room and jam as enjoying her and uh,

1248
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,719
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden she goes, wait a minute,

1249
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:26,519
Speaker 1: I feel the third hand. Thank you very much, welcome here,

1250
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 1: any ladies and gentlemen, or and behalf of Quest Love

1251
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:36,320
Speaker 1: Supreme Boss, Bill, June Bug, Sugar Steve. It's like shout

1252
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 1: out to Fontacolo and I'm made Bill, Thank you very much,

1253
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: Mr Jackson. Thank you. We didn't ask one question. Why

1254
01:20:45,080 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 1: did you never get the curl? Well? I never get

1255
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: why did you never get the curl? The curl in

1256
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:55,920
Speaker 1: the hair? Oh on me, I don't want that. Ladies

1257
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 1: and gentleman, take you very much. This is a sure

1258
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: supreme we We'll see you on the next ground. Check

1259
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Speaker 1: out later. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H