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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It is Monday, it is

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Speaker 2: August fourth. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I am joined as always

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Speaker 2: by crime analyst Body Move In, and our beloved co

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Speaker 2: host Stephanie is out this evening. But do not worry,

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Speaker 2: because we've got a stacked night. A headlines for you.

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Speaker 2: The recent Netflix documentary it has been blowing up. It's

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Speaker 2: called A Deadly American Marriage, and it tells this story

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Speaker 2: of James Corbett. He's a man who was brutally beaten

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Speaker 2: to death by his wife and father in law. Well,

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Speaker 2: tonight we're going to be joined by a really, really

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Speaker 2: special guest who worked closely on the case and was

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Speaker 2: featured on the Dock. Also, one of Ditty's victims has

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Speaker 2: revealed her identity and she's spoken out about his potential bail,

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Speaker 2: So we're going to get to that, and later we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about this story of the Ken and

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Speaker 2: Barbie killings. Listen. It's a story it's haunted Canada for years.

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Speaker 2: Body's an expert, am a novice will see where you

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Speaker 2: land in the mix. But before we get into even

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Speaker 2: our first story, let's go to a voicemail.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is Benjamin Smith and I was calling about

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Speaker 3: the Devil's Bin murder. The woman who was cutting his

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Speaker 3: hair did an interview online. I was wandering it to

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Speaker 3: confine to hand play it online.

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Speaker 2: It's good.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I'll have a bless one.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that voicemail. And listen. The

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Speaker 2: guys in the studio, Adam and Sam actually tipped us

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Speaker 2: off to it earlier, so we'll do better than listening online.

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Speaker 2: And everyone's going to be able to listen. And you're

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Speaker 2: what we're about to hear is hair stylist Adrianna Ruiz,

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Speaker 2: and she's recounting the story to local CBS news affiliate

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Speaker 2: five News in Arkansas.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how to describe it. It he like

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Speaker 4: I saw him.

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Speaker 2: His eyes just.

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Speaker 4: Looked sunken, pretty kind of like soulless. It's what I

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Speaker 4: could describe.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 4: I was about five minutes into the haircut when a

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Speaker 4: man pulled up and, uh, asking about whose car that

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Speaker 4: was that was outside, and that's when he would tell him,

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Speaker 4: you know, I believe this is your car. And he

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Speaker 4: didn't really he just stood quiet. I guess he felt

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Speaker 4: kind of scared. As soon as I saw the stickers

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Speaker 4: of you know, the evidence and stuff, I knew something

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Speaker 4: as wrong and I asked if it was really it

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Speaker 4: could be related to the Devil'ston incident, and they said

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Speaker 4: it could have.

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Speaker 6: Been scary and he he does look he looks demonic

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Speaker 6: his eyes, he looks demonic. And I don't say that,

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Speaker 6: you know, he is very scary looking. No, agreed, I

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Speaker 6: mean mean is what comes to me. I mean he

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Speaker 6: just looks so mean. I'm not somebody I expect to

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Speaker 6: be a fourth grade teacher.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, I mean good grief like hands and out

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Speaker 2: little things at apple sauce looking like that. Absolutely, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: And I got to say this, this woman who you know,

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Speaker 2: did the interview and was just going about her day

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Speaker 2: doing her job. Imagine that. And then the authority comes

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Speaker 2: in and they have evidence bags and she knows the

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Speaker 2: case because it's been everywhere.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I guess they were like sweeping up the hair

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Speaker 6: that had fallen onto the floor. From the haircut for evidence.

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Speaker 6: It kind of freaked her out. Yeah, of course it would.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had a thought because when we were

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Speaker 2: talking yesterday with Joseph and we I believe it was

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Speaker 2: just yesterday that he was caught, I think, and and

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Speaker 2: you know, my thought was, and he has the wherewithal

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Speaker 2: to say, oh, I'm going to go get my hair

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Speaker 2: done after I've done this. I think it's honestly, oh okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, you know, still shortly said the words recently.

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Speaker 2: But maybe because of that, I'm like, oh, maybe he's staying,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, in a motel or something and didn't

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Speaker 2: want to leave his hair someplace.

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Speaker 6: So maybe I think he was trying to change his

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Speaker 6: appearance a little bit and that. Yeah, and yeah, that's

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Speaker 6: what I think. And I was getting ready to start

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Speaker 6: the school year too. He was supposed to start this week.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, his new job teaching. Yeah, good grief.

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Speaker 2: Well, in any case, thank you for the voicemail. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: And yeah, listen, We've also been following the ongoing man hunt.

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Speaker 2: This is for the suspect in the alleged quadruple homicide.

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Speaker 2: It recently took place in Tennessee. So body can you

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Speaker 2: kind of catch us all up to speed, man. I

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Speaker 2: have been monitoring this all day long. I have been

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Speaker 2: f fiving on my you know, refreshing my browser. Has

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Speaker 2: he been arrested yet? Has he been arrested yet?

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Speaker 6: Today the reward for Austin Robert Drummond has increased to

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Speaker 6: thirty thousand dollars and there has been a third and

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Speaker 6: fourth arrest in connection. Now this is in connection to

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Speaker 6: the quadruple homicide that occurred in Tennessee. Again, he is

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Speaker 6: on the run and a manhunt is has ensued and

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Speaker 6: it continues on Tuesday, July twenty ninth. Just to bring

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Speaker 6: everybody up to speed. On Tuesday July twenty ninth, a

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Speaker 6: seven month old baby was found abandoned in like a

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Speaker 6: driveway front yard area in Dyer County, Tennessee, Okay. Hours later,

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Speaker 6: four relatives, including the child's father, mother, uncle, and grandmother

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Speaker 6: were found murdered in nearby Lake County. It's about twenty

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Speaker 6: minutes away. All four victims. They released us today. By

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Speaker 6: the way, all four victims died from a parent gunshot wounds.

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Speaker 6: So they found four bodies. It was it's described as

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Speaker 6: being like in the woods, and these four bodies belong

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Speaker 6: to family members of the baby that was abandoned. So

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Speaker 6: they connected this guy, Austin Robert Drummond to that murder,

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Speaker 6: and he has been on the run ever since. Records

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Speaker 6: show you, guys, he has a super lengthy criminal history.

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Speaker 6: He was allegedly a member of the Vice Lord Street gang.

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Speaker 6: And get this, he's out on bond. He's out on bond.

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Speaker 2: What is hold on? What does out on bond? I

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Speaker 2: know what out on parole means? What what's bond?

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Speaker 6: Okay, let me go into his criminal history and I'll

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Speaker 6: get it because it's gonna explain why he's out on bond.

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Speaker 6: So right now, authorities are scouring a wooded area like

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Speaker 6: literally right now near private University in Jackson, Tennessee, on

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Speaker 6: Monday afternoon. Is part of the investigation into the subject. Again,

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Speaker 6: he's twenty eight years old, Austin Robert Drummond. A law

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Speaker 6: enforcement official said they're still looking for him. So here's

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Speaker 6: some of the news from today. Two additional sussects have

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Speaker 6: been arrested, so four in total have been arrested. We're

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Speaker 6: still looking for Austin. He's like the main character we're

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Speaker 6: looking right, all right, So Tanaka Brown twenty nine, was

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Speaker 6: arrested Friday and he's been charged with accessory after the

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Speaker 6: fact to first degree murder and tampering with evidence. Giovanki Thomas,

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Speaker 6: also twenty nine, also from Jacksonville, Tennessee. Jackson I'm sorry, Jackson, Tennessee.

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Speaker 6: Sorry Jacksonville, Florida. I did not mean to throw you

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Speaker 6: in there. Giovanki Thomas, he is twenty nine, and he

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Speaker 6: was arrested Saturday with accessory after the fact of first

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Speaker 6: degree murder. Now, he was already in jail on unrelated charges,

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Speaker 6: so he's being transferred to Lake County Jail for arraement

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Speaker 6: on the new charges. Wait, he was in prison and

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Speaker 6: he was in jail. It was like failure to appear.

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Speaker 6: It was unrelated charges. Now, the two people that arrested

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Speaker 6: today uh Saunders twenty three, she was arrested today and

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Speaker 6: charged with accessory after the fact and Brandon Powell charged

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Speaker 6: with possession of scheduled six drugs and criminal conspiracy. So

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Speaker 6: they've got some different charges, but the commonality is that

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Speaker 6: it's all sort of accessory after the fact. So they

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Speaker 6: must have helped him tamper with evidence, like maybe taking

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Speaker 6: the gun cleaning his car, maybe even dropping that baby off.

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Speaker 2: Well, someone had to drop the baby. The baby car

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Speaker 2: was twenty five minutes away.

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Speaker 6: Twenty five minutes away, and apparently there were two cars

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Speaker 6: that had to be driven, so maybe driving the car.

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Speaker 6: They the police have not stated yet what exactly tampering

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Speaker 6: with evidence and accessory after the fact means.

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Speaker 2: Yet, we don't know.

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Speaker 6: Now. Austin, though, has a really, really really lengthy criminal history.

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Speaker 6: So it started when he was young, obviously, and you

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Speaker 6: know a lot of things that these always do. But

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Speaker 6: he was when he was twenty eleven, he was just

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Speaker 6: a teenager. He pled guilty to evading arrest and attempted burglary.

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Speaker 6: He received twenty four hours of community service. Easy enough, right,

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Speaker 6: easy enough?

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Speaker 2: I mean it doesn't sound like it's certainly that's pretty

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Speaker 2: start though. Yeah, that's right. Well, listen, this is true

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Speaker 2: Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm here

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Speaker 2: with the Brilliant Body move In. We're talking about the

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Speaker 2: recent quadruple homicide in Tennessee. We want to hear your

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Speaker 2: thoughts and we want to hear from you on this

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Speaker 2: or really any cases that are top of your brain.

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Speaker 2: Give us a call. We're at eighty eight three one crime.

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Speaker 2: So okay, he starts with.

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Speaker 6: He starts in twenty thousand, Yeah, and that's you know, okay.

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Speaker 6: So two years later, he's seventeen years old, all right,

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Speaker 6: twenty thirteen, he walked into like a convenience door, walked

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Speaker 6: behind the register in a gas station. I'm sorry, I said,

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Speaker 6: communion store, pointed a pistol at the clerk demanded she

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Speaker 6: opened the cash register, and he took the cash was

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Speaker 6: like forty four dollars inside. But a jury found him

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Speaker 6: guilty of this.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 6: While he was in jail for that crime, he was

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Speaker 6: on the phone with this father and he started threatening

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Speaker 6: the juries, like the juror members, they're going to regret this,

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Speaker 6: and I'm going to get out soon, and YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 6: So he got convicted in twenty fifteen to thirteen counts

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Speaker 6: of retaliation, which gave him a lengthy sentence.

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Speaker 2: And were those thirteen counts for each one of the jurys.

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Speaker 6: Who Yeah, So while he's okay, so now he's got

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Speaker 6: this extended sentence. He's been given thirteen years now in

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Speaker 6: the pen. All right, So in twenty twenty, now this

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Speaker 6: is seven years later, he's up for parole and the

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Speaker 6: DA wrote a letter and called him a dangerous felony

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Speaker 6: offender and confirmed member of the vice. Lords continued the

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Speaker 6: letter and said that Drummond made threats against the jurors,

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Speaker 6: which of course we already know, and the robbery, and

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Speaker 6: said he was not fit to rejoin society. So he

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Speaker 6: was denied parole. While he was at this parole hearing,

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Speaker 6: they went over all the his infractions. At the time,

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Speaker 6: he had more than two dozen disciplinary issues in prison,

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Speaker 6: including possession of a deadly weapon, assault, refusing a drug test,

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Speaker 6: and gang activity. Now, he was released on September one

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Speaker 6: of twenty twenty four, so pretty recently, right well, that

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Speaker 6: week he got re arrested for what literally now, one

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Speaker 6: report is saying the same day he got arrested, And

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Speaker 6: I looked at the report and it does say September first,

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Speaker 6: but I couldn't cooberate it anywhere else, so I didn't

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Speaker 6: want to repeat it. But the same week, I think

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Speaker 6: it's safe to say the same week he was released.

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Speaker 6: He was apprehended on gun, drug and contraband charges. Three

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Speaker 6: months later in December, so just a few months ago

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Speaker 6: at this point, eight months ago, he was brought up

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Speaker 6: on additional charges from when he was in prison. So

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Speaker 6: while he was in prison for the first thirteen years,

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Speaker 6: he got arrested again for threatening and deadly use of

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Speaker 6: deadly force tempted murder. But when he got arraigned, he

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Speaker 6: posted bond, a thirty thousand dollars bond. He got out

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Speaker 6: and that's why he's out on bond. Oh my gosh. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: it's pretty extensive.

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Speaker 2: That's so, I know.

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Speaker 6: So he's a career criminal. He's very dangerous. He's connected

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Speaker 6: to these vice lords and I don't know for sure,

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Speaker 6: but it's being kind of talked about that the people

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Speaker 6: that he's in connection with that have been arrested, the

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Speaker 6: four people have also got connections with this vice lord's game.

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Speaker 6: And perhaps Austin is like a higher ranking member and

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Speaker 6: is able to kind of boss these people around and

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Speaker 6: pull the strings and pull the strings, and they've all

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Speaker 6: got like drug charges and things like that, and the

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Speaker 6: vice lords are known for running drugs. All right, well, listen,

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Speaker 6: we will be staying on top of this. As soon

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Speaker 6: as the main suspect is in custody, we will let

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Speaker 6: you know and listen, stay with us because Coming up

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Speaker 6: right after the break, we're going to have District Attorney

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Speaker 6: Alan Martin. He's from Netflix's documentary A Deadly American Marriage,

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Speaker 6: and we're going to also follow up on Eric Menendez's

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Speaker 6: health scare. Keep it Here True Crime Tonight. This is

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Speaker 6: Your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk true crime

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Speaker 6: all the time. Later in the show, we're going to

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Speaker 6: be talking about what authorities have revealed about the suspect

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Speaker 6: in the recent Montana shooting and why killer Carla Homoka

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Speaker 6: is considered Canada's most hated woman. But first we're going

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Speaker 6: to be getting into a case that has sparked international

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Speaker 6: outrage for over a decade, the murder of James Corbett.

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Speaker 6: We're so lucky enough to be able to have all

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Speaker 6: of our questions on this super layered case answered by

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Speaker 6: someone super close to it. And you can't get any

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Speaker 6: clothes to this case than Our guest joining us is

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Speaker 6: Alan Martin. He is the senior Assistant District Attorney in Lexington,

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Speaker 6: North Carolina, and the prosecutor of Molly and Thomas Martin

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Speaker 6: in the murder of James Corbett. You may know him

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Speaker 6: or the case from the recently released Netflix documentary A

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Speaker 6: Deadly American Marriage. Welcome, Alan, thank you so much for

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Speaker 6: being here. Courtney, Before we dive into the discussion with Alan,

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Speaker 6: can you just give us like an overview of the

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Speaker 6: case for people who might not be aware.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So Netflix is a Deadly American Marriage.

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Speaker 2: It tells the story of Jason Corbett. So he was

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Speaker 2: brutally killed in twenty fifteen by his wife and his

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Speaker 2: father in law. So that's not in dispute or unless

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Speaker 2: Allan tells us differently. And what the documentary does is

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Speaker 2: shows really conflicting narratives between the killer's claims of self

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Speaker 2: defense and then the family's allegation that Corbett, the victim,

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Speaker 2: was murdered in cold bla blood as part of a

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Speaker 2: plot for custody of his children. So initially the case

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Speaker 2: resulted in murder convictions, but later it led to a

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Speaker 2: plea deal for manslaughter, and it sparked absolute outrage and

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Speaker 2: renewed scrutiny from the public and victim Jason's family. So

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Speaker 2: once again, Alan, welcome, how are you this evening?

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Speaker 7: Very well, thank you for asking.

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Speaker 2: We're thrilled to have you and listen. This was such

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Speaker 2: a long and convoluted case how and when did you

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Speaker 2: come into this case?

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Speaker 7: Our office got involved shortly after it happened in July

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Speaker 7: twenty fifteen. This is the kind of case that our

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Speaker 7: investigators with the Davidson County Sheriff's Office will work with

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Speaker 7: us on prior to charges and early in the investigation

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Speaker 7: so that we're all on the same page and focusing

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Speaker 7: on the same things understood. And then quickly after it happened,

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Speaker 7: got it.

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Speaker 2: And then did you follow it along? How long were

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Speaker 2: you with the case?

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Speaker 7: I was on the case relatively early and then was

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Speaker 7: involved with it all the way until its conclusion, with

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Speaker 7: the adjudication of the plea arrangement, after the trial and

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Speaker 7: the reversals on appeal.

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Speaker 6: Wow, So had you went through the whole appeal process

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Speaker 6: and like everything from start to finish, that must have

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Speaker 6: been exhausting.

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Speaker 7: So our office handled the trial and then after the

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Speaker 7: appeal we handled the retrial which led to the plea arrangement.

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Speaker 7: In North Carolina, the Attorney General's Office handles the appell

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Speaker 7: a work at Court of Appeals and State Supreme Court,

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Speaker 7: so we didn't have to do that work, but we

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Speaker 7: were obviously very interested and involved in paying attention to

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Speaker 7: what was happening, you know.

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Speaker 6: In the documentary, it's for those that don't know Thomas Martin,

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Speaker 6: he's one of the accused. He's a former FBI agent,

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Speaker 6: and the documentary does a really good job of sort

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Speaker 6: of making it seem that he was kind of above board.

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Speaker 6: He worked it with the FBI his whole life. He

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Speaker 6: was sort of a stand up citizen. How did his

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Speaker 6: FBI background influence how you approached investigating him or did it?

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Speaker 7: So crimes of violence like this one, you will sometimes

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Speaker 7: have people who have spotty criminal histories or violent backgrounds,

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Speaker 7: but there's an entire separate set of cases of this

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Speaker 7: kind of violence where no one involved has any criminal

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Speaker 7: history whatsoever. It is unusual to have a retired law

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Speaker 7: enforcement officer and especially FBI who's a suspect in this

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Speaker 7: kind of a case and a homicide, but it's not

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Speaker 7: necessarily that unusual to have someone charged with murder who

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Speaker 7: has no previous criminal history. It's not necessarily a recidivous

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Speaker 7: crime like you often see with property crimes or drug crimes.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so not much different, but you kind of know

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Speaker 6: he knows the system a little bit, so that had

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Speaker 6: to like, you know, sort of I guess maybe more

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Speaker 6: for the police, right, like they in their interview tactics

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Speaker 6: and whatnot. They probably had to have their guard up

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Speaker 6: a little bit, I would imagine, But wow, that's pretty interesting.

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Speaker 7: They did have to approach the interview with him with

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Speaker 7: care and with an understanding that you know, he had

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Speaker 7: sat on the other side of the table many times before.

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Speaker 7: He knows the d that's right. It called from very

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Speaker 7: careful preparation for his cross examination, since it was clear

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Speaker 7: to us before trial that he was going to testify

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Speaker 7: and Molly was not. And Greg Brown, who was one

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Speaker 7: of the two attorneys that worked with me on the trial,

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Speaker 7: handled his cross examination and did a wonderful job of

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Speaker 7: drawing out weaknesses in what Tom had to say and

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Speaker 7: allowing him to cast himself in an unfavorable light in

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Speaker 7: front of you.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't realize that Mollie did not take the stand.

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Speaker 2: Somehow that fact escaped me and for people who perhaps

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Speaker 2: didn't see the documentary yet, because you have to Mollie

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Speaker 2: was the wife of the victim, just letting the audience know. Alan,

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Speaker 2: So do you have a thought as to why she

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Speaker 2: didn't take the stand?

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Speaker 7: My speculation is that cross examination was going to be

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Speaker 7: very difficult for her. There were a number of instances,

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Speaker 7: occasions prior to the killing when we had clear demoscul

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Speaker 7: examples of her having been untruthful in a very exaggerated

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Speaker 7: or very black and white kind of way, and things

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Speaker 7: unrelated to the killing of Jason, But they were the

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Speaker 7: kinds of things that when you get on the stand

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Speaker 7: and your credibility is issued, is that issue. She was

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Speaker 7: going to have a lot of difficulty in coming off

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Speaker 7: as a credible person. There were just there were facts

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Speaker 7: that were going to be hard for her to work with.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm not ever privy to the defense thinking. I

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Speaker 7: know they're her attorneys and her father's attorneys worked closely together.

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Speaker 7: Our guests is that they thought Tom would be able

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Speaker 7: to handle the explanation of what had happened that night,

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Speaker 7: and they were hopeful that his testimony would be sufficient

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Speaker 7: to convince the jury that this was a self defense

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Speaker 7: case and not a malice murder case.

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Speaker 6: And he seems like a stronger character to do that.

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Speaker 6: This is your crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio, i'mbody Moving here

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Speaker 6: with Courtney Armstrong and we are joined by North Carolina

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Speaker 6: District Attorney Alan Martin, we've been talking about the murder

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Speaker 6: of James Corbett and the documentary about that called The

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Speaker 6: American what's it called again? I'm so sorry for had

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Speaker 6: the name of it already and I just watched it

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Speaker 6: Deadly American Marriage.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, thank you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really good and you know it's kind of short,

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Speaker 6: it's only like an hour and forty five minutes. If

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Speaker 6: you haven't watched it, I highly suggest you do. This

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Speaker 6: is my cello Netflix Documentaries star Alan Martin. So give

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Speaker 6: us a call at eighty eight thirty one crime or

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Speaker 6: hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: Alan.

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Speaker 6: So, Molly's mom Sharon, This, here's what happened you guys.

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Speaker 6: If you haven't watched the documentary again, you have to

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Speaker 6: go watch it. Her parents had come to visit and

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Speaker 6: while they were sleeping, Molly's mom is in the basement

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Speaker 6: and she says she's woken up to a ruckus and

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Speaker 6: then she goes back to sleep in the basement. Alan,

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Speaker 6: did that raise any red flags with you guys?

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Speaker 7: Yes, that raised a whole field of red flags.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: The very little narrative we got was that she and

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Speaker 7: her husband Tom were in a guest room downstairs underneath

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Speaker 7: the master bedroom where the killing took place. They woke

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Speaker 7: up to the ruckus that Tom walked out the door,

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Speaker 7: told her to stay there, picked up a little legal

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Speaker 7: emin in baseball bat that they happened to have brought

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Speaker 7: with them for that visit, and walked upstairs and that

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Speaker 7: then shared and stayed in the room and fell back

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Speaker 7: to sleep. And then some time later, this was a

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Speaker 7: there was a basement, a main floor, and a second floor.

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Speaker 7: After the killing and police officers had come and ems

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Speaker 7: had come, there was an officer who went upstairs, got

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Speaker 7: the children out of bed, covered their faces, took them

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Speaker 7: down to the basement to put them with their grandmother

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Speaker 7: or with sharon stepgrandmother, so that they wouldn't wander into

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Speaker 7: the crime scene. And she, the officer took them downstairs, said,

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Speaker 7: you know, he knocked and opened the door, and she

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Speaker 7: was standing there and said, is everyone okay?

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Speaker 2: And he's a little mettle kids too.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, these are elementary school children.

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Speaker 6: These are very little kids.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 6: And his crime scene was super violent, it was, yeah, and.

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Speaker 7: It would have it would have been very noisy. And

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Speaker 7: we did not consider it remotely credible that she had

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Speaker 7: stayed downstairs and not heard anything else and been able

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Speaker 7: to go back to sleep. But since her husband was

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Speaker 7: on trial, you cannot compel a way to get testimony

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Speaker 7: against her husband, and vice versa, And so we couldn't

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Speaker 7: interview her, we couldn't follow up with her, and we

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Speaker 7: could not put her on the stand to try to

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Speaker 7: get any more information out of her. But yes, that

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Speaker 7: struck us as being really really unusual and highly suspicious.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't realize this. You can't even compel someone.

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Speaker 2: I understood the fact that you can't compel a spouse

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Speaker 2: to testify against their spouse on the stand, but that

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Speaker 2: extends to even being interviewed.

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Speaker 7: Well, we could ask her to talk to us about

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Speaker 7: anything that wasn't privileged communication, but no person is ever

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Speaker 7: under an obligation to talk to us, and it was

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Speaker 7: it was ebundantly clear from the circumstances that she was

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Speaker 7: not going to talk to us any further. So she

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Speaker 7: was sort of and she expected herself out to I

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Speaker 7: don't know anything, I didn't see anything, I didn't hear anything.

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Speaker 2: I was sleeping.

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Speaker 8: Wow.

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Speaker 7: And the reason that's so suspicious, and this was part

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Speaker 7: of the argument to the jury, one person can see

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Speaker 7: or participate in an event and then fabricate a narrative

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Speaker 7: about it and sort of tell a different story, and

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Speaker 7: may be able, under follow up questioning, be able to

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Speaker 7: weave a consistent narrative. It's hard, but it's possible with

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Speaker 7: two people. It's incredibly more difficult once you get separated,

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Speaker 7: because as follow up questions come, you don't know what

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Speaker 7: the other person's going to say. Unless you're both telling

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Speaker 7: the truth. That's right, I don't know what the other

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Speaker 7: person's going to say, and so they diverge with people,

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Speaker 7: it becomes impossible.

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Speaker 6: Well, coming up next, we have more with District Attorney

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Speaker 6: Alan Martin on A Deadly American Marriage. Stay right here

436
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 6: on True Crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time.

437
00:24:46,000 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 2: Be right back. So we are talking about Netflix A

438
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 2: Deadly American Marriage. It's a documentary that was released back

439
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 2: in May. It tells the story of Jason Corbett. He's

440
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: a man who was brutally killed by his wife and

441
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: father in law back in twenty fifteen. This documentary shows

442
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: conflicting narratives between the killer's claims of self defense and

443
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: the victim's family's allegations that the victim was murdered in fact,

444
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 2: in cold blood and it was part of a plot

445
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: for custody of his children. It's really complex, it's really

446
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: worth the watch, and we are thrilled to be back

447
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,959
Speaker 2: with Lexington. North Carolina District Attorney Alan Martin. He's talking

448
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: about this case and he is the prosecutor, so no

449
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: one knows it better. And he was also featured on

450
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: the doc and really helps walk you. He's so good

451
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: in the documentary to really, Alan, you are so good, fabulous, So.

452
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 5: Thank you for being back.

453
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 7: Sure, so, can.

454
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: You lay the stage a little bit for anyone who

455
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: hasn't watched the doc in terms of geography, because the

456
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: players in this story half for in Ireland, half for here.

457
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: Can you just give sort of a brief overview of

458
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: what that was?

459
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 3: Sure?

460
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 7: So, Jason was an irishman, born and raised in All

461
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 7: of his family lived in Ireland. He was married and

462
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 7: had two children and his wife. Their mother passed away

463
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 7: just a few weeks after the youngest child had passed

464
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 7: away or had been born. Then Molly came into their

465
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 7: lives as a sort of a payer. She grew up

466
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 7: in Tennessee and had gone to Ireland having made a

467
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 7: connection with them to provide childcare. Jason worked at an

468
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 7: industrial facility there they developed a relationship. Subsequently moved to

469
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 7: the United States. His company had a plant near Winston Salem,

470
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 7: North Carolina, which is in central North Carolina and is

471
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 7: close to Davidson County, and they lived in a community

472
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 7: that's a commuter neighborhood to Winston Salem, and her parents

473
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 7: then still lived in eastern Tennessee.

474
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: Got it Okay? Thank you for sort of laying that out. Yeah,

475
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: it's a complicated situation. And what about legally? Were there

476
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: complications on the legal end of things or because the

477
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: victim and the two people who are on trial were

478
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: all here in the United States, was that not that

479
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: big a complication.

480
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was not. It might have been different if

481
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 7: the defendants had been from another country and rather than

482
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 7: the victim being from another country. But we had full

483
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 7: support of all of Jason's family in Ireland and the

484
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 7: Irish government Irish Consulate would check in occasionally to tech

485
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 7: status and see if there's anything that we could do,

486
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 7: so we didn't have a government that was interfering on

487
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 7: behalf of it. Defendant who was there national like you

488
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 7: could have it. Those were reversed.

489
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 6: I wish that would have been made more clear in

490
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 6: the documentary only because it seemed like there was a

491
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 6: lot of Ireland versus the United States kind of things

492
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 6: happening in the documentary. You know that it seemed like

493
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 6: a lot of Irish citizens were really enraged at the

494
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 6: fact that they, you know, won this appeal and you know,

495
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 6: the America wasn't doing justice to their their citizen. I

496
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 6: kind of wish that would have been made more clear

497
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 6: that actually there was a lot of support there.

498
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: But I digress.

499
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 6: So this this you know what I mean though, Like like,

500
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 6: if you guys had the support, I kind of wish

501
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 6: they would have put it in there. But I know

502
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 6: how it is. When they made these documentaries, you don't

503
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 6: really have a choice. Yes, freaking producers, right exactly.

504
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: I know how it is. Right. These these guys.

505
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 7: We the people we worked with were wonderful and very

506
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 7: thorough and they did a lot of fact checking to

507
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 7: make sure that everything that they aired was factual and provable.

508
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 7: I was very impressed with them.

509
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 6: You know, it's such a good doctor memory and it's

510
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 6: and I want to everybody out there that hasn't seen it,

511
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 6: it's really digestible. It's not very long, it's not like

512
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 6: six different parts. You don't have to commit a week

513
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 6: to watching this. You could sit down in an under

514
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 6: two hours get the whole story. And it is fascinating.

515
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 6: And in the documentary they show the crime scene photos

516
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 6: and in these this this crime scene is incredibly violent.

517
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 6: Jason was beat with a bat and you can imagine,

518
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 6: you know, if you close your eyes and imagine it,

519
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 6: how horrific this crime scene was. What was the level

520
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 6: of vince demonstrated in the crime scene of this case,

521
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 6: and what did it tell you about the case as

522
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 6: a whole.

523
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 7: The violence that was inflicted on Jason was extraordinary, right,

524
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 7: and devastating. One big aspect of the case was that,

525
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 7: on the other hand, Tom Martin's and Molly Martin's Corbett

526
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 7: essentially had no injuries. And this was there was We

527
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 7: had a blood spatter expert who worked on this case

528
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 7: and through the bedroom a small hallway to the master bath.

529
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 7: In the master bath, you know, there were dozens of

530
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 7: what he could identify as blood events that had created

531
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 7: various spatter patterns, and they went from floor to ceiling

532
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 7: and on every wall. And the autopsy of Jason was

533
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 7: powerful information. His skull was crushed and the pathologists could

534
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 7: not describe the number of injuries that had called skull

535
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 7: fractures because they began to overlap. And so he was

536
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 7: able to give up a minimum number, but could not

537
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 7: give a maximum number because it was so extensive.

538
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, overlapping. It's a wild amount of violence. Well, listen,

539
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: this is true crime tonight and body move and and

540
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 2: I are here with District Attorney Alan Martin. We're talking

541
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: about the murder of James Corbett and the documentary based

542
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: on that at Deadly American Marriage. If you have questions

543
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: for Alan, give us a call. We're at eighty eight

544
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: three one crime. So, Alan, I did want to ask you.

545
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: First of all, I did not realize that grandpa or

546
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: the stepfather of the victim brought the little league, happened

547
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: to bring the little league back with him. What was

548
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: the prosecution's theory between the bat and then the cinder

549
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: block rock that was mentioned, How does that come into play?

550
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: Right?

551
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 7: So Tom was Jason's father in law, step grandfather to

552
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 7: the children. Right, So they had a story, you know,

553
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 7: sort of related to family history and irrelevant circumstances to

554
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 7: explain why they had brought a little League aluminum all

555
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 7: back with them, as it had been another family member's bat,

556
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 7: and bringing it to the Jason son. There was another

557
00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 7: story about why Molly would have had a concrete paver

558
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 7: in the bedroom. In the narrative that Tom gave him

559
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 7: too a lesser extent. Molly he used the ball bat,

560
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 7: and she had admitted having hit Jason at least once

561
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 7: in the head with the concrete paver, and they presented

562
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 7: themselves as sort of the weapons of opportunity as opposed

563
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 7: to like a pre planned We never had any notion

564
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 7: that Molly had called her parents and said, hey, Dad,

565
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 7: I need you to come down and help me kill Jason.

566
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 7: There was not you know, she had some motivation maybe

567
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 7: to create an explosive scene while her parents were visiting,

568
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 7: so that she could maybe get a domestic blarge protective

569
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 7: order and try to get custody because Jason had not

570
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 7: allowed her to adopt the children, and there is documentation

571
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 7: that she wanted to end the marriage but keep custody

572
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 7: of the children. Our theory was that she was trying

573
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 7: to create an exploit an event that would help her

574
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 7: get custody without necessarily killing him. Right, We don't have

575
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 7: any indication that sort of before that night there was

576
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 7: a plot or a premeditated plan between her and her

577
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 7: father to do this. But our theory was more that

578
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 7: she created a situation that her father was in and

579
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 7: then that situation got out of hand.

580
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she, I mean the lies, this woman, the woman

581
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: who Molly pretending that she was best friends with his

582
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: first wife, with the victim's first wife. She was wild.

583
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: But here's Mama's burning question. And it's such a small thing,

584
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 2: but I can't get it out of my mind. The

585
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: thing that stuck out to me the single most out

586
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 2: of this whole documentary was when Molly's father, so he

587
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: was the co perpetrator of killing John Corbett, He said

588
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: that he had just oh idly, he and his wife

589
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 2: idly took the four hour drive to go see his

590
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: daughter and her family. But then it later came out

591
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: that that night that he had canceled a dinner with

592
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: his boss. Was that a big deal in court? Or

593
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: can you tell me? Is there anything I missed about that?

594
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: Because it drives me nuts.

595
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 7: It was one more little thing. It wasn't anything that

596
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 7: tips the scales one way or the other. That sort

597
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 7: of thing and I want to go back one sec

598
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 7: just since we're engaged in a conversation and you use

599
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 7: the word liar, and that's something that when, particularly when

600
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 7: we're in court, we have to be careful labeling a defendant.

601
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 7: That way, we can say, on this occasion, there's evidence

602
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 7: they didn't tell the truth, and we can say things

603
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 7: like this person has a complicated relationship with the truth.

604
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 7: But we can't go into court and say to a jury,

605
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 7: this person's a liar, therefore you should convict them of murder. Right,

606
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 7: But certainly when you're talking about what they said happened,

607
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 7: you know, those types of situations where they say one

608
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 7: thing and there's demonstrable evidence that that's not entirely true,

609
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 7: that certainly can become powerful in front of the jury.

610
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: Right, And that is a really good thing to point

611
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: out of what can you know, what has to be

612
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: said in court versus the court of.

613
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 6: Publish And no, I kind of want to write that

614
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 6: one down. A complicated relationship with the truth. I really

615
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 6: like that.

616
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of ex boyfriend.

617
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 6: It's such a media it's such a professional way of saying, hey, listen,

618
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 6: you're liar, liar, pants on.

619
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: Fire, well, Alan, you are not a liar, liar pants

620
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: on fire, but you are the greatest explainer of this

621
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: story and we were so grateful to have you on

622
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 2: our show. And listen, everyone should go out immediately watch

623
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 2: a deadly American marriage.

624
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 6: Later in the show, I'm going to be telling you

625
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 6: the story of Paul Bernardo and Carla Holmoka, and I'm

626
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 6: going to give you a little bit of insight into

627
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 6: how I kind of started learning about this case time.

628
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 6: They are Canada's most hated couple. And don't forget Tomorrow,

629
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 6: I'm so excited, is talk back Tuesday.

630
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 2: Now.

631
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 6: We always listen to your talkbacks, like we the first

632
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 6: thing we say, right Courtney, how many talk backs do

633
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 6: we have?

634
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, we always listen.

635
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 6: But Tomorrow Tuesday is when we dedicate, you know, more

636
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 6: time to the show to hear your talkbacks. And speaking

637
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 6: of which we have one right now, let's go to

638
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 6: that talkback.

639
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 9: Hey, ladies, this is still from Tampa, just listening to

640
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 9: the last night's show, talking about what BK was potentially

641
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 9: a folding as he was walking out when Dylan saw him.

642
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 9: My speculation is that maybe it was the k bar

643
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 9: knife sharpener. I'm not sure if you guys have looked

644
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 9: that up yet, and it's been documented that he purchased

645
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 9: one at the time that he got the knife in

646
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 9: the sheep, and it kind of resembles a thin looking

647
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 9: vacuum system. Just wondering if you guys had looked at that.

648
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yes, thank you for that talkback. I could

649
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 6: talk about this for six hours. So I looked up

650
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 6: the knife sharpeners and I don't know what model he bought,

651
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 6: but if you just google knife sharpener, there's two different

652
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 6: kinds that I thought might be something that he was carrying.

653
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 6: One is I think it's made by Tumbler and it

654
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 6: looks like a little drum.

655
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

656
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 6: Now Dylan describes this bulge and I'm like, okay, maybe

657
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 6: that's it. But then she describes it as an arrow

658
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 6: shaped object or a vacuum type object. Now there's the

659
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 6: other kind of knife sharpeners are like ten ninety nine

660
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 6: at Walmart and they kind of look like a little dustbuster.

661
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 6: I'm not kidding, they kind of. Now listen, keep in mind,

662
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 6: Bethany saw sparks when you're sharpening a k bar. I

663
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 6: don't know.

664
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 2: I should have asked. Joe said this yesterday.

665
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 6: When you're sharpening a ca bar, does it leave sparks?

666
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 6: I have no idea, or is that like just like

667
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 6: the kind of knife on a rock that I'm like

668
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 6: imagining would send sparks off.

669
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: Listen, this is a great talkback, and body, I know

670
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: you have thought about that. Listen. I'm gonna maintain the

671
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: same thing that I said the other night about potentially

672
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: like a vacuum to literally vacuum of evidence, which is

673
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: another theory. And listen, it's all theories because none of

674
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 2: us know none of us. But I just don't think

675
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 2: going in knowing what you plan to do, that you

676
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: would want anything encumbering your hand. I don't think so.

677
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 2: And also doing a sharpening a knife, it can do sparks.

678
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 2: I mean I've seen it at like the farmer's market

679
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: when they sharpen knives. And then my husband in the

680
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 2: kitchen is like a knife fanatic, and over the years

681
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: I bought him all different kinds actually which ps they

682
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 2: should be used because their knives are kind of dull

683
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: in our kitchen. But anyway, it's like a process.

684
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 4: It is.

685
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: It's two hands and you're even if you watch a

686
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: cooking show, you know so.

687
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 6: I don't know, it's probably not. Then, right, it's probably not.

688
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 6: I still kind of think it was just the knife. Yeah, No,

689
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 6: I don't think he was bringing a vacuum like like

690
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 6: an m VACT type situation in I just think it's

691
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 6: like you said, it's too cumbersome and quite literally. I

692
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 6: don't think he Again, this is all speculation. Speculation alert.

693
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 6: I need to sound taha, I need to sound for

694
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 6: a speculation alert. I don't think he went there with

695
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 6: the intention of murdering four people, So I don't think

696
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 6: he would have thought to bring a sharpener.

697
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?

698
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 3: Right?

699
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 6: Like I know, right, it would have been a thought

700
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 6: that he would have had that it would go that

701
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 6: far right, that it would go that far right.

702
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: I think he thought.

703
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 6: I just think he thought he was better than he was.

704
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 6: He's a fool, he's an idiot, he's a clumsy clown.

705
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: Amen that listen, keep it here. Coming up at the

706
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: top of the hour, we have Sean Diddy Coombe's victim

707
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 2: who's come out. Do not forget to call us. We're

708
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: at eight eight eight three one prime. We want to

709
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 2: hear from you, and.

710
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 6: Don't forget if you miss any part of Tonight's show.

711
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 6: You can always catch the podcast. We also want to

712
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 6: hear from you. Give us a call at eighty eight

713
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 6: thirty one crime or hit us up on our socials.

714
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 6: You can just send us a little DM and we'll

715
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 6: read it on the air at True Crime Tonight's Show

716
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 6: on TikTok and Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

717
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 6: Right now though we have a talk back, let's hear it.

718
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 8: Hi, Heather from Wisconsin. Just curious with claim Maxwell being moved.

719
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 8: I just read to a minimum security AAMP in Texas.

720
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 9: Is there security in place to make sure it's sure

721
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 9: that she doesn't take her own life using air quotes?

722
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 8: Also, thanks and loving ladies, have a great.

723
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: Day, Heather love that question. That is a pack of

724
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: a question. I literally my jaw. Actually, I don't know

725
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: why I had not conceived of her.

726
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 6: I had I didn't, like, you know, like, she goes

727
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 6: from a different kind of security level, so she's gonna

728
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 6: have a little bit more freedom to quote unquote, you know,

729
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 6: do away with herself.

730
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: Right.

731
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 3: Question?

732
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: Interesting, I mean, here's in terms of the security. I

733
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 2: don't know that specifically, but I was poking around a

734
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: little bit. We know a couple of things. Some of

735
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: the inmates, they're pretty up in arms. They're like, this

736
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: is not for violent crimes or violent criminals in the

737
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: c Yeah, that's right. Oh that's right. I mean you

738
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 2: know she's convicted of sex trafficking. Yeah, for goodness sakes.

739
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: So the new facility, it's about one hundred miles from Austin,

740
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: and the I know that the people who live there,

741
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: the prisoners are lived in dormitories. There is a pretty

742
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: low staffed inmate ratio compared to other more secure federal prisons.

743
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 2: So that actually kind of does speak to what you ask.

744
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: They'll be less oversight, right, and again this is all

745
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: for inmates serving time for non violent offenses and white

746
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: collar crimes. So yeah, prisoners like shut their collectively shut

747
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: their window shades. Wow, so they have privacy. They have

748
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: some privacy, but it was exactly privacy, yes, but they

749
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: shut them when she was arriving to like show solidarity

750
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: of you're not wanting you really well listen what I read.

751
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 6: Yeah. I kind of wonder if it's by design a

752
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 6: little bit, like are they sending her there because it's

753
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 6: going to be easier for her to do away with herself?

754
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 6: Like is something happening, is something brewing. That's my conspiracy bringdling.

755
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 6: And I don't even I mean, Stephanie would have a

756
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 6: hate she.

757
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: Would not be shutting up her right, yeah, on the

758
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: conspiracy of Yeah. Absolutely.

759
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 6: But we're gonna have to ask her when she gets

760
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 6: back what she thinks about this move. Does she think

761
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 6: does she think it was set up? And do we

762
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 6: know why Texas?

763
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know. I don't know why Texas.

764
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 2: The other bits of information is that one of the

765
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: people who live there are do you know who Theorno CEO,

766
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Holmes.

767
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 6: Is, Yes, that documentary she was in she was such

768
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 6: a scammer. She scammed so many people out of money

769
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 6: and hope of curing illnesses and stuff. Yes, I know

770
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 6: exactly who she is.

771
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: So this one, I'm actually I've started the book. I

772
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: probably can skip to the documentary perhaps, but I have

773
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: the book. And yet this woman is serving eleven years.

774
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: Was found guilty of defrauding investors because she basically was like,

775
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: I have the panacea, I have this blood testing thing

776
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 2: that's gonna cure at all.

777
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 6: It was like a one and it was like a

778
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 6: one and done device that she was It was. It

779
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 6: did a whole kinds It did a lot of different things,

780
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 6: and it was supposed to be like this universal testing

781
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 6: apparatus for all kinds of diseases.

782
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, dam.

783
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 6: Talk about liar, liar pants on fire this one. She

784
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 6: has a good horrible relationship with the with the truth.

785
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 2: Yes she does anyway. So so that's what's doing. But

786
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 2: we will keep watch on there. And then also we

787
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: are all going to be keeping watch because there is

788
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 2: a manhunt going on. This is for the suspect in

789
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 2: the August first, Montana bar shooting, and this manhunt is intensifying.

790
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: So four people were fatally shot inside of a place

791
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: called the Owl Bar in Anaconda, Montana. Authorities have identified

792
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: the SUSA. He's named Michael Paul Brown. He's a forty

793
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: five year old Army veteran. He is at large. He

794
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 2: is considered armed, unstable, and extremely dangerous. Buddy, what is

795
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: going on on? What is going on right now? We

796
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: have three man hunts going on. We have Travis Decker,

797
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: we have this Montana bar shooter, Michael Paul Brown, and

798
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: Austin Robert Drummond in Tennessee. What is going on? Don't

799
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't recall, and it's funny something

800
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 2: a phrase that Joseph threw out, totally unrelated, but that

801
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: we've passed some rubicon like that people are perpetrating crimes

802
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 2: that are large scale enough and where they themselves are

803
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: deemed dangerous enough to warrant all of this man power

804
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: that these manhunts.

805
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 6: Well, you knows, Marshall Service is very busy lately, so

806
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 6: let's make sure we're supporting them. Make sure you're following

807
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 6: all their social media accounts so you guys can get

808
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 6: updated on these man hunts, so that we're all kept safe, right, Like,

809
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 6: the US Marshal Service does a great job.

810
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: Hopefully they get them soon. What else about him do

811
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: we know? So we know authorities have released there's a

812
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 2: surveillance photo showing this suspect Brown. He's barefoot, he's shirtless,

813
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: and he was fleeing the scene wearing yeah, only black shorts.

814
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: So but at least they have that. There is a

815
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: monetary reward of seventy five hundred dollars that the US

816
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: Marshal Service is offering for information. And Brown's car it

817
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 2: was a Ford F one fifty. It's been found. It

818
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: was abandoned, but it was not located nearby. Oh yeah,

819
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 2: and law enforcement from state and local and federal agencies,

820
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: including the FBI and Homeland Security. Listen, they've all joined

821
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: forces in this search. There's over two hundred and fifty

822
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: personnel involved. And the Montana Attorney General warned that he

823
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 2: could turn to Anaconda, described him as someone who quote

824
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: murdered four people in cold blood for no reason whatsoever.

825
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 6: Four people again, yes, again, this is Trivie Decker with three.

826
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 6: We have Austin Robert Drummond with four, and now this

827
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 6: guy with four.

828
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: Yow and then and then his name iscapesy. But the

829
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: guy who was just caught for murdering those two parents

830
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: when their two children who had to bear witness to it.

831
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, terrible and thank god those kids weren't the other

832
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 6: two and made it four. Thank god.

833
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: Yes, that mom, Oh, that mom is just what a hero.

834
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 6: You're listening to True Crime tonight on iHeartRadio where we

835
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 6: talk true crime all the time. I'm body moving and

836
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 6: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong, Stephanie Lei. Decker will return soon.

837
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 6: We are going over the headlines and I've got another

838
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 6: one right now. So remember Eric Menendez went to the

839
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 6: hospital with kidney stones and it was discussed that he

840
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 6: possibly might get like a medical furlough. Yeah, the Menenda's brothers,

841
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 6: they have a parole hearing August twenty first and August

842
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 6: twenty second, and it was discussed briefly that Gavin Newsom

843
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 6: might consider doing a medical furlough and Eric Mendez would

844
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 6: just stay in the hospital until his parole hearing. It

845
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 6: is kind of expected that they might get out on parole.

846
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 6: I mean, I think most people have kind of got

847
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 6: it in their heads that they might get on a parole.

848
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 6: So the idea was that he was just going to

849
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 6: be at the hospital, you know, for the next couple

850
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 6: of weeks. Right, well, he has returned to prison. He

851
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 6: had he had a successful kidney stone surgery. His Returney

852
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 6: did request the medical furlough until his upcoming parle hearing,

853
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 6: but that was apparently denied again. Eric has been convicted

854
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 6: alongside his brother Lyle for the nineteen eighty nine murders

855
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 6: of their parents. He went on, he undergoed, undergoed, undergo

856
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 6: I'm just making upwards.

857
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm just making upwards.

858
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 6: He underwent surgery for kidney stones he's fifty four years old,

859
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 6: and now he is back in prison and he will

860
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 6: be at his Pearl hearing scheduled for late August.

861
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: So that's the news with that. Well, you know we

862
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: should remember and actually producer Taha, you're in your shot. Yes,

863
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: I'm right here. I can hear what's going on. We

864
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: should remember to have Robert rand love him back on

865
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: the shower. Fantastic, yes, and he knows the menandez brothers

866
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: inside outside from the day after he.

867
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 6: You know, I think people really underestimate how important he

868
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 6: actually was to the case. Not only was he reporting

869
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 6: on it from day one just as an outsider, but

870
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 6: he discovered this letter that basically is kind of getting

871
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 6: them this habeas corpus relief possibly yep, that is, you know,

872
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 6: launched this big controversy about this case. So this letter

873
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 6: was written prior to the murders, right, and it was

874
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 6: a letter from Was it from was Lyle or Eric?

875
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: I can't remember.

876
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 8: I think it was.

877
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 2: I fairly wanted it was Lyle fact jacket, but I

878
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: think it was live.

879
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 6: To his cousin talking about the abuse that they suffered

880
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 6: that was left out of the trial. And so this

881
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 6: letter is like hey, and he Robert our guest, our

882
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 6: friend is the one that found it.

883
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, you are correct. That's crazy to me.

884
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 6: And every time, every time he's on the show, I'm like,

885
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:23,479
Speaker 6: oh my god, I can't believe he's on our show.

886
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 6: Light be such an important person in this case. Wait,

887
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 6: that'd be great.

888
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: In other news. So back to Diddy. I know, body

889
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: not your favorite subject, but listen, news is news is news.

890
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 6: You're right, You're right, I know.

891
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 2: So. Virginia Hewan, she was identified for the first time.

892
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: Originally we knew her only as victim number three and

893
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: Sean didty Combs's indictment. So she submitted a letter to

894
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 2: the court, and she is asking for his release on bail. Oh,

895
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 2: which I think is very interesting because several other of

896
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 2: his exes wrote the exact opposite and said, listen, he's

897
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: a menace. He has a proven history of domestic abuse.

898
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 2: But Virginia, you know again, she wrote to the judge

899
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 2: subranean and we'll see what happened. She personally wrote this

900
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: letter to the judge denied the bail today. I mean,

901
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, I think that that stands with what the

902
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: judge's judge had. I think that's what everybody was kind

903
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 2: of expected. But yeah, it was interesting. I mean, in

904
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: this letter she described COLEMs, said he's a changed man,

905
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: he's committed to his family, he's not violent for many years.

906
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 2: I don't even do you even know that's accurate according

907
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 2: to the facts that were presented in court, I don't

908
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 2: think so. I don't know how many years were digging back,

909
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: but it's not that many.

910
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe the years he's been in jail, not

911
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 6: assaulting women on the street, eaten in his life because

912
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 6: he's been behind bars.

913
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly, but prior

914
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: you know, prior to that.

915
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 6: So did she testify against him? She victim number three? Yeah,

916
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 6: she tested, Jane do she testified against him and had

917
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 6: all kinds of accounts of his violent activities towards her. Wow,

918
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 6: And so now now she's saying, oh, let him out,

919
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 6: that's crazy. Well, the judge apparently did not listen to

920
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 6: her letter because he denied bail today. I saw our

921
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 6: friend tweeted it.

922
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was just double checking myself before I answered.

923
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: So Virginia was references victim number three in the indictment,

924
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,919
Speaker 2: but she did not testify. Oh she did, Yeah, she

925
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: was one of the She was one of the people

926
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 2: who was out of contact. They were looking prosecutors, that's right,

927
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 2: and her attorney before the trial. So so no, she

928
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 2: did not testify and wow, yep, wow.

929
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 6: So she was the one that everybody was looking for though, Like,

930
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 6: that's exactly that's the victim number three. Where's okay, there's

931
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 6: so many different ones. It's hard to keep trackling. You

932
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 6: need a float chart, you need to exactly mind map

933
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 6: of everybody.

934
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: This non violent offender. Yeah, right, so this is what

935
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: I have been dying to hear about body, what's going

936
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 2: on with the Ken and Barbie Killers?

937
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 6: Right, So, on the surface, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka

938
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 6: appeared to be the perfect couple. They were attractive, young,

939
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 6: well dressed, seemingly in love. We were blonde. Both were blonde.

940
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 6: Here in the States. They were nicknamed the Ken and

941
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 6: Barbie Killers by the media because this was also followed

942
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 6: in the United States, but it was mainly in Canada.

943
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 6: Between the charm lay like a really really horrific truth though,

944
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 6: they were predators, manipulators, and killers. So Paul Bernardo, before

945
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 6: Carla became even into the picture, Paul Bernardo had already

946
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 6: begun his criminal spree. Between nineteen eighty seven and nineteen ninety,

947
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 6: Paul terrorized the Toronto suburb of Scarborough. He sexually assaulted

948
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 6: women in their homes born nearby, often late at night.

949
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 6: He became known as the Scarborough rapist. He assaulted at

950
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 6: least fourteen women, possibly more.

951
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 2: We don't know. Holy cow, he's young.

952
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 6: He's a young guy, all right, and he's an attractive guy. Again,

953
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 6: Ken and Barbie killers, they were both very attractive, well liked.

954
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 6: They got along with people. But he's out there raping

955
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 6: women in the Toronto area. Despite all the composite sketches

956
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 6: and victim reports, police never caught him. Okay, So he

957
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 6: meets Carla and during the state when his rape started

958
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 6: in nineteen eighty seven, he meets Carla. All right, she

959
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 6: was seventeen. He was twenty three. So he's twenty three

960
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 6: years old out there raping women.

961
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 2: Okay.

962
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 6: They quickly developed a relationship with a really disturbing dynamic.

963
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 6: Paul was dominant and abusive, and Carla she wasn't just compliant,

964
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 6: she was enthused.

965
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: He asked it.

966
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 6: So they're both like psychopaths.

967
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,399
Speaker 2: Okay. Kind of remind this was with each other or

968
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: with others, or well just stay tuned, okay, okay, tuned.

969
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: I'm getting excited bouty.

970
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 6: I listen, I am reading. I'm gonna tell you a

971
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 6: little story real quick sidebar. I know about this case

972
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 6: because of Luca Magnata. Luca Magnada. He is the killer

973
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 6: that I talk about in Donut with Cats and almost

974
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 6: got beaped again sam Adam got me.

975
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. Don'not with cats, Okay.

976
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 6: Now, Luca wanted to be associated with killers, all right.

977
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 6: He he often pretended to be the Moors murderers in England,

978
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 6: and he started this rumor online that he was dating

979
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 6: Carla Homoka all right. And he had a picture of

980
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 6: himself and the Bahamas with his mom, who was also

981
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 6: an attractive blonde woman, and the picture was taken so

982
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 6: far away that people believed it was really Carla, so

983
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 6: much so that Luca marched into the office of the

984
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 6: Sun newspaper in the I interviewed him about it, okay,

985
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 6: and he was like, I don't know why people are

986
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 6: test saying I'm dating Carla. I'm not just to get

987
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 6: his name in the news and associated with Kate. Okay, okay,

988
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 6: So I had to find out who she was. I'm like,

989
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 6: who's Karla Homolka? And I'm reading from my notes that

990
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 6: I took in twenty eleven.

991
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 2: Oh my, okay, so.

992
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 6: These are my notes that I'm reading, all right. So

993
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 6: Paul met Carla in nineteen eighty seven. She was seventeen,

994
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 6: he was twenty three. They quickly developed a relationship. Paul

995
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 6: was dominant and abusive. Carla appeared not just compliant but enthusiastic.

996
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 6: She idolized him and later with claim she was under

997
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 6: his control, but her actions would suggest otherwise. So in

998
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety, Carla's youngest sister, Tammy. She was just fifteen,

999
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 6: all right, but Paul had become obsessed with her, even

1000
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 6: sneaking into her room to please himself while she slept.

1001
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay.

1002
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 6: As a Christmas gift to Paul, Carla drugged her own

1003
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 6: sister using animal tranquilizers She worked at like a clinic,

1004
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 6: an animal clinic. She used animal tranquilizers to drug his

1005
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 6: own sister while while Tammy, her sister was unconscious, Paul

1006
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 6: and Carla both raped her and filmed it.

1007
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: There has to be a very special enclave in yes.

1008
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 6: Yes for this, Yes, okay. Now, Tammy began to check

1009
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 6: because she she's on these animal tranquilizers. So she started

1010
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 6: choking because she started throwing up, and she choked on

1011
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 6: her own vomit and died. So panicking, they dressed, they

1012
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 6: redressed her, cleaned up the scene. They called nine one one,

1013
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 6: pretending it was a tragic accident, saying she had drunken

1014
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 6: alcohol while she died, and the death was ruled accidental.

1015
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 6: No one suspected any foul play.

1016
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 2: Are you kidding?

1017
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 9: No?

1018
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,880
Speaker 6: Move forward six months to June of nineteen ninety one.

1019
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 6: So six months later, a fourteen year girl from Burlington, Ontario,

1020
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 6: her name was Leslie. She was locked out of her

1021
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 6: house after curfew. She's trying to get into her house. Right,

1022
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 6: Paul is driving around looking for victims, and he abducted her,

1023
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 6: brought her to his house, and over the next twenty

1024
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,640
Speaker 6: four hours, he and Carla repeatedly raped and tortured her again,

1025
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 6: they filmed it. Carla was even seen on tape encouraging

1026
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 6: the abuse. Right, this is ultimately so sadistic.

1027
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 2: I had said I wanted to hear the infamous kine marketing,

1028
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: and I've changed my mind. But we're in the middle,

1029
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: so go ahead, right in the middle of it. We

1030
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 2: gotta finish, right.

1031
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 6: They ultimately killed her, and they figured the best way

1032
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 6: to dispose of her body was to dismember her and

1033
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 6: put her body parts in like concrete blocks, right in,

1034
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 6: which they did. They did do this, but one of

1035
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 6: these blocks was too heavy, so they had to kind

1036
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 6: of leave it on the shoreline and it was discovered

1037
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 6: and she was later identified through her dental records. So,

1038
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 6: but they didn't know who did it all right. Victim

1039
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 6: number three, which was about eight months later, in nineteen

1040
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 6: ninety two, Kristin French. She was fifteen. They're all about

1041
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 6: the same age, right, She's fifteen. She was an honor student.

1042
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 6: She was abducted in broad daylight while walking home from

1043
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 6: school in Saint Catharine's Carla lured her over with the map,

1044
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 6: pretending to knee directions. Paul attacked her from behind him

1045
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 6: m hmm. Paula attacked her from behind and forced her

1046
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 6: into the car, and over the next three days, Kristin

1047
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 6: was tortured, raped and humiliated, all captured on videotape. Unlike Leslie,

1048
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 6: she fought back fiercely. Paul and Carla eventually murdered her

1049
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 6: again through strangulation. Her body was found in a ditch

1050
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 6: on April thirtieth in Her hair was even chopped off,

1051
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 6: possibly a trophy.

1052
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,400
Speaker 2: This is maybe the worst story I've ever heard in

1053
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 2: my life. Listen if you want to give us a call,

1054
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 2: and actually helped me change the subject from the story

1055
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 2: that I'm having the hardest time like hearing eight eight

1056
00:58:56,720 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 2: eight three to one crime. But yeah, body, this is

1057
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 2: it's really unimaginable stuff. So go ahead, okay, Oh you know,

1058
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: actually we are saved by the talkback. Oh okay, Hi,

1059
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: it's Cynthy from Canada Collings.

1060
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 10: In regards to the canon Barbie killers, we don't really

1061
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 10: call him that here in Canada, but they probably are

1062
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 10: the most hated couple in this country. She should still

1063
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 10: be in prison, but she managed to manipulate her way

1064
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 10: out of that, and it's very unfortunate because she very

1065
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 10: much manipulated the situation and probably encouraged him to be

1066
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 10: more violent than he already was.

1067
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 2: Thanks, have a good.

1068
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 6: Night, that's right, So yeah, she should still be I'm

1069
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 6: going to I'm going to get to that what Cynthia's

1070
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 6: talking about. Okay, So Paul and Carla they recorded their

1071
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 6: crimes on videotape. Again, these tapes would become central to

1072
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 6: the investigation later, but they weren't discovered immediately.

1073
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

1074
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 6: So Paul was eventually arrested because the DNA from the

1075
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 6: rapes finally came back again.

1076
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 2: This is the early nineties, Oh wow, okay, right.

1077
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 6: And Carla presented herself as like battered wife that just

1078
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 6: was forced to do things that Paul was sadistic, and

1079
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 6: Paul Paul, Paul, it was all Paul. Right, So she

1080
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 6: was hospital in January of nineteen ninety three, she was

1081
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 6: hospitalized with black eyes and bruises, claiming Paul had beaten

1082
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 6: her severely. At the same time, the DNA evidence linked

1083
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 6: Paul to the Scarsborough rapes, which were unrelated to the

1084
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 6: murders before he met Carla. Right right, Well, investigators began

1085
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 6: digging deeper, suspecting more than just this domestic abuse, right

1086
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 6: and fearing she would be implicated, Carla agreed to a

1087
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 6: plea deal Okay. In May of ninety three. She would

1088
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 6: testify against Paul in exchange for twelve years in prison

1089
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 6: for manslaughter. At the time, prosecutors did not have these videotapes, right,

1090
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 6: they did not have him. It wasn't until much later,

1091
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 6: after everything was said and done, that they found the tapes.

1092
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 6: And this is what Cynthia and Canada, our friend, our

1093
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 6: lovely friend in Canada who we adore, thank you for

1094
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 6: the talk back by always. Yeah, they found these tapes

1095
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 6: and realized, oh my god, Carla participated and encouraged and

1096
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 6: you know, she was a full blown participant in these

1097
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 6: crimes and.

1098
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: Year old old sister sister.

1099
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,600
Speaker 6: Yeah so she, yeah, she gets away with it, gets

1100
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 6: away with it. Basically, that's what it boils down to.

1101
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 6: Carla gets away with it and she's released. She's released

1102
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 6: in two thousand and five, I think. So let me

1103
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 6: go to his trial. So the videotapes are finally recovered.

1104
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 6: Hidden they were hidden behind the light fixture in the

1105
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 6: couple's bathroom. They revealed the true horror. Carla had been active,

1106
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 6: willing to participant in the rapes and murders. She was

1107
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 6: seen laughing, engaging in the abuse, and even directing Paul

1108
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 6: on what to do.

1109
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 2: Crazy, right, it's really bad yea yeah, I mean she

1110
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 2: offered her sister up as a Christmas gift. I can't

1111
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 2: I can't get past that. It's insane, I really can't.

1112
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 6: So Paul was convicted on all counts and sentenced in

1113
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 6: life in prison without parole. He was declared a dangerous

1114
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 6: offender in Canada. That means he'll likely never be released.

1115
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 6: This danger offender status. I wish we had that in

1116
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 6: the United States. He'll never be released. How does she

1117
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 6: have that danger because she said that plea deal and

1118
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 6: that's the law. So she gets out. She gets out

1119
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 6: after twelve years, and it sent a chill through you know,

1120
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 6: the country in Canada, an absolute chill. She struck this

1121
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 6: controversial plea deal, you know, paying yourself as this battered

1122
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 6: woman in exchange for testifying against him. She pled guilty

1123
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 6: de manslaughter. At the time, the full extentdent of her

1124
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 6: involvement was not, you know known. Nobody knew. And so

1125
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 6: guess what. She gets out. She marries the brother of

1126
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 6: her lawyer and starts volunteering at a school, a children's

1127
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 6: school and children's school. She belongs in a cage. She

1128
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 6: moved to Montreal. She started volunteering at this Montreal school

1129
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 6: and once they realized who she was, they were like,

1130
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 6: oh no, you cannot be a volunteer here anymore. That's

1131
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 6: the story of Carla Homolk and Carl Lenardo.

1132
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: That's it that crazy, right, it really is. I mean,

1133
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 2: it really is unimaginable. Well, listen, I guess thank you

1134
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: for telling me that I actually have always wanted to know.

1135
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 2: But now I'm gonna have nightmares. But listen, keep it here.

1136
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: We're going to be breaking down tonight's stories. We have

1137
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 2: a ton of talkbacks from you. They range from Karen

1138
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 2: Reid to all over the Map call us anytime eight

1139
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 2: at eight three to one crime, True crime tonight. We're

1140
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time.

1141
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 6: All right, let's get back into it. We got some

1142
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 6: talkbacks to go to, right, is that what they're doing now?

1143
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 6: We got a bunch that's been stacking up because we

1144
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 6: can't stop talking. So let's hear some talk about. Let's

1145
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 6: hear from you. Let's hear some Hi.

1146
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 10: It's Cynthia from Canada calling just in regards to Karen.

1147
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 10: Read again now that it's being spoken about. She's convicted

1148
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 10: of being impaired while driving. So that's a d uy. Ironically,

1149
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 10: the other individuals who were at that party were not charged,

1150
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 10: but they were impaired based on the video, and they.

1151
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 2: Never were charged.

1152
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,080
Speaker 10: And I'm curious as to why no chargers were relaid

1153
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:19,000
Speaker 10: against them.

1154
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 2: Thanks did she mean for this? I was gonna say,

1155
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 2: how great to hear your voice one night. I don't

1156
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out between Taha Adam or Sam

1157
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 2: who's got the crush on Cynthia that we get to

1158
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,400
Speaker 2: hear her twice in one night. But it's me.

1159
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 7: It is.

1160
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 2: Yes, well, body and I are thrilled, and your question

1161
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 2: is great, and you know they should have I mean, honestly,

1162
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, if you can go back and Monday Monday

1163
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 2: morning quarterback it you're in Canada, but I'm sure you

1164
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: get the reference about the Monday morning quarterbacking. They no

1165
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 2: one was tested and to have a duy you need

1166
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 2: direct evidence of that duy. So no one had no one,

1167
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 2: no one was tested, as a simple answer, And you

1168
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: can't retroactively. Once alcohol's out of your system, it's out

1169
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 2: of your system, so that's right.

1170
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean they didn't do any testing that night.

1171
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 6: I mean, that wasn't the only thing they didn't do

1172
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 6: that night, but they didn't do any blood tests on

1173
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:20,479
Speaker 6: anybody in that house, right, because you can't retroactively charge them, right, And.

1174
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: Honestly, had they gone in under the normal course of

1175
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 2: normal you know, circumstances of an investigation, when someone is

1176
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: dead at the bottom of someone's driveway, you go ahead

1177
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 2: and knock on the front door of that person. But

1178
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 2: since that didn't happen, I want you now that I'm

1179
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,360
Speaker 2: saying it out loud, I wonder if maybe that was

1180
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 2: part of why, because the investigators talked or knew that

1181
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 2: the people at the house were drinking at the least,

1182
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 2: if nothing but that.

1183
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, But I mean, just because you're at home drinking

1184
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 6: doesn't mean you're out driving right like right or you

1185
01:05:57,880 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 6: he doesn't know if they took an uber that night.

1186
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 6: I mean, it's not like they interviewed them that night,

1187
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 6: right they went in and talked to them at the

1188
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 6: kitchen table or something. I didn't really I wasn't really

1189
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 6: into Karen read. I'm not one hundred percent sure.

1190
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 2: Anyway, it's a great question. Really, investigation was Nobleano on

1191
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and here we are talk back

1192
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: number two work Hi.

1193
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 11: I was listening to the episode with your attorneys that

1194
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:31,040
Speaker 11: was providing some questions, and he brought up capital murder

1195
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 11: and murder, and I.

1196
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 12: Really don't know the difference when I was hoping I

1197
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 12: could get more clarification on what that means. And thank

1198
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 12: you all for the hard work that you do and

1199
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 12: the empathy and compassion that you show for the families

1200
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 12: and the victims, and keep up everything that you do.

1201
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 7: We appreciate you.

1202
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 8: That meant a lot.

1203
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 6: Actually we do try to take great care. We do

1204
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 6: really care about the victims and their families. So thank

1205
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 6: you for the talk back and the compliment. So I

1206
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 6: can kind of go into this if it's okay. So

1207
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 6: there's murder, which is also called first degree murder in

1208
01:07:08,800 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 6: most states, and the definition of that is the unlawful

1209
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 6: and intentional killing of another person with malice, I premeditated,

1210
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 6: they thought about it. An example would be somebody plans

1211
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 6: and carries out the killing of a spouse. That would

1212
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 6: be murder or you know, first degree murder. And the

1213
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 6: punishment is usually life in prison with or without parole.

1214
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 6: It's not automatically eligible for the death penalty. Capital murder,

1215
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 6: which is you know, totally different. It includes first degree murder,

1216
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 6: but there's aggravating factors, okay, and those aggravating factors vary

1217
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 6: by state, but some of the triggers of those aggravating

1218
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 6: factors are a contract killing, a murder for higher kind

1219
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 6: of situation.

1220
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 2: So if it's money, if money is exchanged for a

1221
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 2: human life, yeah.

1222
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, if it's particularly heinous or cruel, like if somebody

1223
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 6: was tortured, you know, that could be a care dismembered,

1224
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 6: dismembered Yeah, there you go. If the murderer was committed

1225
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 6: during another felony like a robbery, I e.

1226
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger, I didn't know that that was quote enough.

1227
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 6: So it's an aggravating factor and they stack up, right.

1228
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 6: So another one is multiple victims, which is also something

1229
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 6: that Brian Coberger.

1230
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 2: Okay, of course it triggered that.

1231
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 6: So those are the differences, and the punishment can include

1232
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 6: the death penalty or life without parole. So if you

1233
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 6: are charged with capital murder, usually there's an aggravating factor,

1234
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 6: and there's several and again it varies by state, and

1235
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 6: not every state has capital murder, you know, not every

1236
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 6: state has the death penalty. There's also felony murder. Did

1237
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 6: you guys know that?

1238
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,839
Speaker 2: What is the specification of felony murder?

1239
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 6: So let's say you and I Courtney, right, we're out

1240
01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 6: and we're driving around and I say, let's go rob

1241
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:00,679
Speaker 6: that seven eleven, right, and we pull and sorry, seven

1242
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 6: to eleven. I would never rob you. I love your slurpies.

1243
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 2: It would never have light.

1244
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 6: However, let's just say I want to go steal a slurpy, right,

1245
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 6: and in the commission of stealing that slurpy, you shoot

1246
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,680
Speaker 6: the clerk and kill him. Mm hmm, because you're a

1247
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 6: terrible person and I'm an angel. Okay, I just wanted

1248
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 6: to slurpee. I can get charged with felony murder because

1249
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 6: a murder was committed while we were together, committing another

1250
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 6: fela I see. Oh okay, thank you first, And not

1251
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 6: every state has that either, But that's felony murder an

1252
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 6: incause you would think all murders felony murder, right, No,

1253
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 6: that's just what they call it, felay murder. And one

1254
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 6: thing you had mentioned before with first degree murder was

1255
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 6: the pre meditation. And something I've learned along my travels

1256
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 6: with the brilliant.

1257
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 2: Attorneys of the honor of privilege to speak to, pre

1258
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 2: meditation can happen pretty much in an instance.

1259
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 6: I didn't know that either. I recently learned that very recently.

1260
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 6: I didn't realize it was like a split second decision.

1261
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 2: Yep.

1262
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 6: So second degree murder would be like a passion, like

1263
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 6: a like it just happen crime of passion, like you

1264
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 6: you're fighting with somebody and they punch you, you punch

1265
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,400
Speaker 6: them back and it hits their temple and they die

1266
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 6: right right or manslaughter?

1267
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, No, it is. It's nuanced. But what

1268
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,440
Speaker 2: a great question. Yeah, there are there's so many and

1269
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 2: I just that safe to stay it. Okay, right on,

1270
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 2: you're listening to true Crime tonight, give us a call.

1271
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: We're at eight eight eight three one crime. We want

1272
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 2: to hear from you, and we are hearing from you

1273
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 2: right now, So why don't we go ahead and go

1274
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 2: to the next talk back?

1275
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 8: Okay, Hey, guys, I really enjoyed your conversation on dark

1276
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 8: tourism and I would love for you guys to dissect

1277
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 8: that a bit further, maybe in a future episode, kind

1278
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 8: of go into why we as people are drawn to

1279
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,639
Speaker 8: morbid things. And also one way I believe we justify

1280
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 8: to ourselves are more bad curiosities, if you will, is

1281
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 8: how we can separate ourselves from them. We can look

1282
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 8: at what was and what is so things that were

1283
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 8: in the past or a different world and time.

1284
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:12,479
Speaker 6: We deem that is okay, ooh interesting, you know it's

1285
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,839
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna lie. I'm I am interested in dark perism.

1286
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 6: I am interested in going to these places. I stayed

1287
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,839
Speaker 6: at EST's Park at the hotel just because the shining

1288
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 6: was filmed there. You know, I really want to go

1289
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 6: to Chernobyl. I think I've I think.

1290
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 2: You really, I'm gonna get you a T shirt made vision.

1291
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 6: I'm interested in these and I but I here's the thing.

1292
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 6: I'm afraid to know why I'm interested in these things.

1293
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:37,439
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

1294
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:40,200
Speaker 6: Like, but she kind of explained it pretty good there,

1295
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 6: like maybe I'm wanting to separate myself from that and say, okay,

1296
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 6: that's the history and I'm living in this world now.

1297
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 6: It's completely separate. I'm safe, even though this is a

1298
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 6: really dangerous place and world and particularly this place that

1299
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 6: I'm standing in, but I'm safe. Maybe it's like to

1300
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 6: convince myself.

1301
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,000
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1302
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 6: I'm very interested.

1303
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 2: Though I am too. And yeah, what a great talk

1304
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 2: back and insight because even when we were discussing last

1305
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: night and our forensic expert and buddy Joseph Scott Morgan

1306
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:14,080
Speaker 2: brought up two places I would not have considered dark

1307
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 2: tourism spots, and maybe it's because I've been there, and

1308
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 2: that was the Catacombs in France. I'm like, but that's

1309
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 2: history or all of you know, the grave sites in

1310
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 2: New Orleans, and I'm kind I'm like, but that's architecture. No,

1311
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,520
Speaker 2: look inside thyself, Courtney like, what what Gettysburg?

1312
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, of course it's history, right, of course

1313
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,839
Speaker 6: it is. But everything in the past is history, everything

1314
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 6: including murders. Taha, what do you think, do you fall?

1315
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 13: I feel like the ones you're describing ti in war

1316
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 13: with history. But when it's something like a serial killer,

1317
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 13: like a Jack the Ripper or Jeffrey Dahmer, those feel

1318
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,839
Speaker 13: different to me. That feels like that's one crazy person

1319
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 13: that has committed these rific crime versus.

1320
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 2: Something historic that we can learn from.

1321
01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 7: I don't know.

1322
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 13: I don't know if that makes sense or it.

1323
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 2: Does separate the two.

1324
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 6: By the way, I went to Crime con London a

1325
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 6: couple of years ago and I did the Jack the

1326
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 6: Ripper tour. I totally forgot about that. So, yeah, I've

1327
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 6: done a couple of things.

1328
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 13: I'm looking at you differently. You're doing a lot of these, so.

1329
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: But listen, don't judge me.

1330
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 6: I was like a guest that crime con and they

1331
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 6: it was a crime con thing, and I was like

1332
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 6: a featured guest. I didn't have a choice.

1333
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 13: But I will say that the Jack the Ripper that

1334
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 13: intrigues me that there's something different about that.

1335
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 7: I don't know why.

1336
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,120
Speaker 2: Is it because it was so long ago.

1337
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,439
Speaker 13: Maybe it's the time factor, I think. So it feels

1338
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,680
Speaker 13: like history, right, yes, but there's something weirder about the

1339
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 13: Jim Jones or the Jeffrey Dahmer those, Yeah, difference.

1340
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 12: Yeah, I can't pinpoint one.

1341
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 6: I don't know that I would go on a Jeffrey

1342
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 6: Dahmer tour. I don't think I would, in less the

1343
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 6: lack of time. I think it's because I think it's

1344
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 6: disrespectful to the family and the family is still alive.

1345
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, and that was another thing for me. I also

1346
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 13: I think that's if maybe some of the money from

1347
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:07,000
Speaker 13: these is going to the family.

1348
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, like a foundation or something, then I would consider

1349
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 6: doing it. But I wouldn't want to disrespect family members

1350
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 6: who are live. I always think when I think of

1351
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 6: Jeffrey Dahmer, I always think of the sister of one

1352
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 6: of his victims at the at the sentencing here, at

1353
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 6: the victim impact statement, when she almost attacked him.

1354
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:27,919
Speaker 2: It's hard. It's a primal reaction.

1355
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I always can I always consider her when

1356
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 6: I'm talking about Jeffrey Dahmer. And it's hard to be

1357
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 6: in true crime and also be completely respectful of the family.

1358
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:41,040
Speaker 6: And I think we walk a really fine line. But

1359
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 6: we do the best we can, right, I mean we really,

1360
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 6: we really do try.

1361
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say at least yes, absolutely, and

1362
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 2: I try when when I'm interviewing victims family members. And

1363
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 2: that is what guys, that is what Guid's a storytelling.

1364
01:14:57,320 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 2: That's right. And listen. As a reminder, if you have

1365
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:02,600
Speaker 2: missed any part of the show, you can always just

1366
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: catch us on the podcast and we want to hear

1367
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,559
Speaker 2: from you. So it is up on socials. We are

1368
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 2: at True Crime Tonight show that's on TikTok and Instagram,

1369
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 2: or True Crime Tonight that's on Facebook. Also listen, don't forget.

1370
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,200
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is talk Back Tuesday, so at that time we

1371
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: devote more of the show to our talkbacks. We really

1372
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,880
Speaker 2: try and play every single one. Get back to everybody,

1373
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 2: and in the vein of that, we have a talkback

1374
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:32,000
Speaker 2: right now.

1375
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 5: Hi, this is Holly from Kentucky. I've been listening since

1376
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 5: the inception of your podcast.

1377
01:15:37,040 --> 01:15:37,959
Speaker 7: Oh it's awesome.

1378
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 5: I have a suggestion for your docu detective series. It's

1379
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 5: a documentary called Abducted in Playing Oh, thank you love

1380
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 5: the show.

1381
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:48,280
Speaker 2: I've seen that.

1382
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:53,439
Speaker 6: I love that documentary. It is so crazy. We should

1383
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 6: talk about that case. Yes, the girl, the girl, the

1384
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 6: woman I can't remember her name, the woman in the

1385
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 6: documentary who was okay, so abducted in plain sight. Is

1386
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:09,120
Speaker 6: this documentary about this this family who has a neighbor

1387
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 6: who is assaulting one of their daughters. And in this

1388
01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 6: documentary he's also like really manipulating the parents of this

1389
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 6: daughter and basically he's able to take her out of

1390
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:25,560
Speaker 6: the country with their permission pretty much because he manipulated

1391
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 6: the whole situation.

1392
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,559
Speaker 2: And kidnapped twice twice, two times, two times.

1393
01:16:32,040 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he also kind of manipulated the dad, right remember,

1394
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 6: Oh the dad was like rated. Oh, anyway, that is

1395
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 6: such a good documentary. We should we should cover that

1396
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 6: one day, like just a segment like talk about it

1397
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 6: and maybe we could even get her on because she

1398
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 6: does she does shows. It was fat talk about like

1399
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 6: victims and manipulation and you know, grooming pretty much.

1400
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 2: Talk about grooming. That that perpetrator was so insidious to

1401
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 2: that family. He really got every tentacle into mom, dad,

1402
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:11,640
Speaker 2: the kid, and she and the victimization was it was

1403
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:12,760
Speaker 2: really unbelievable.

1404
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 6: But yeah, didn't he manipulate the mom to to kind

1405
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 6: of like fall in love with him?

1406
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:20,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

1407
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 6: I hadn't seen it in a couple of years, but

1408
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 6: it's so good and it's probably still on Netflix, right,

1409
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 6: I would imagine it's sure. I think it's an original

1410
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 6: Netflix series and from my understanding of being in an

1411
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:34,560
Speaker 6: original Netflix series, they don't really leave the platform.

1412
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 2: Well, and speaking of Netflix, we want to really extend

1413
01:17:39,360 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 2: a huge thank you to District Attorney Alan Martin who

1414
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 2: was with us earlier in the show, and remember to

1415
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,639
Speaker 2: watch his or the documentary that he has featured in

1416
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 2: A Deadly American Marriage. It's so good.

1417
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,640
Speaker 6: It's on Netflix, and he's a really big part of it.

1418
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 6: He tells a lot of the story and he was

1419
01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 6: the onsecutor. Yeah, he's wonderful in.

1420
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 2: It no kind and he showed that on the show.

1421
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: Tonight for sure. Sure that was a great talkback. And body,

1422
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,439
Speaker 2: let's let that light of fire under our collective barners.

1423
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 6: Let's get I still want to get this documentary watching.

1424
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:16,879
Speaker 6: H We really need we need Stephanie back. Okay, Stephanie,

1425
01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:19,639
Speaker 6: if you're listening, we need you back. So we need

1426
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 6: her back to get this going. And if you have

1427
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,799
Speaker 6: suggestions for the titles, we've already got some really good ones.

1428
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:26,920
Speaker 6: We're collecting them. Give us a talkback. What do you

1429
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 6: think it should be called? Give us a talkback, let

1430
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 6: us know.

1431
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, we might do a little voting on social or

1432
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,559
Speaker 2: something and just make it a group decision and then

1433
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 2: just dive into it. And you know, I love the

1434
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,280
Speaker 2: idea of a even though I personally like to read

1435
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 2: a book, but a book club where you don't have

1436
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 2: to read it kind of a dream. Listen, thank everybody

1437
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 2: so much for joining us tonight on True Crime Tonight.

1438
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 2: We can't wait to be with you tomorrow. We have

1439
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: lots coming up there that we will cover and listen

1440
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,559
Speaker 2: and be safe and be well and have a good one.

1441
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 6: Thank you, good night, good night,