Speaker 1: Hey, fam, I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Recently, rappert t I, or Tip as
Speaker 1: I know him, made some highly controversial comments about his
Speaker 1: daughter's virginity, which caused the firestorm. Today, Tip and Tiny
Speaker 1: are coming to the Red Table to publicly address his
Speaker 1: comments for the first time. Hi, what's going on? You know,
Speaker 1: what's up? What's up? Broc? Welcome? Well, I just found
Speaker 1: out of what ninety degrees today? All right, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let you all guys wanted to say hi, so you're
Speaker 1: not gonna do when another king and queens show up
Speaker 1: at the house. You're know, I was hoping to be
Speaker 1: greeted and honored properly. Yeah, I mean I was hoping
Speaker 1: to set some of these opinions on you. Yea. I
Speaker 1: was like Tip coming to the Red Table. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say hi, but Junker tell him I keep
Speaker 1: the covering. So let me ask you this, Tip, what
Speaker 1: the hell is going on now? If I may say,
Speaker 1: in my defense, if I may say in my defense
Speaker 1: now and I came here for the tough stuff. No
Speaker 1: easy ride for me. Baby. Well then you know what,
Speaker 1: Let's just start with what's in the headlines right now,
Speaker 1: and then this himing gate the uproar all started after
Speaker 1: t I gave an interview on parenting, specifically about his
Speaker 1: eighteen year old daughter Deja, whose mother is singer Miss Nico.
Speaker 1: So have you had the sex talk with your daughters?
Speaker 1: Not only have we had a conversation, we have yearly
Speaker 1: trips to the Ganna collegist to check her height. From
Speaker 1: Gloria Steinham to planned Parenthood, the backlash was immediate and huge.
Speaker 1: Founder of the Me Too movement to Ronald Berg had
Speaker 1: this to say, that opens up this can of worms
Speaker 1: that I don't think that he really was prepared to
Speaker 1: open up. Or we're talking about this long tradition of
Speaker 1: checking the purity of women's bodies. And I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of men have this idea that being a
Speaker 1: good father is protecting your daughter's virginity. But it's so
Speaker 1: problematic in so many ways. It's just it lends itself
Speaker 1: to this notion that men own their daughters. Author and
Speaker 1: professor of sociology at Georgetown University, Michael Eric Dyson shares
Speaker 1: his opinion being a father, a black father in particular,
Speaker 1: is not the easiest thing in the world. And a
Speaker 1: guy like t I believed that the predatory behavior of
Speaker 1: other men who are like you when you were younger,
Speaker 1: the guys you knew were doing dirt, must be protected against.
Speaker 1: But let's be honest, t I was attempting to exercise control,
Speaker 1: leverage his authority as a patriarch on his daughter in
Speaker 1: terms of protecting her. But there's a difference between control
Speaker 1: and education. If she got pregnant, people would say, how
Speaker 1: did you let your daughter get pregnant so early? And
Speaker 1: it would look like a failing on his part. But
Speaker 1: the answer to that is not policing your daughter's body.
Speaker 1: So I would love to understand better what he really
Speaker 1: thinks about this. I just want to give you a
Speaker 1: moment to say what you feel like you'd like to say. Firstally,
Speaker 1: I came to clip any misconceptions that have been surrounding
Speaker 1: how we interact and parent and what is appropriate and inappropriate.
Speaker 1: I think all of this surrounds a conversation that I
Speaker 1: was having in a very joking manner when asked how
Speaker 1: do I deal with parenting in this day and age?
Speaker 1: And so I just began to, you know, from a
Speaker 1: place of truth. I began to embellish and exaggerate. And
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of people kind of like
Speaker 1: ticket extremely literal because if you put any of my reputation,
Speaker 1: like who I am as a father, who I've been,
Speaker 1: I honestly thought people knew me better than that. Well,
Speaker 1: there's some of us that know you, but there's a
Speaker 1: lot but they don't. Do you understand the sensitivity of
Speaker 1: really I did not. Do you understand it now? I
Speaker 1: understand it now, Yes, I do. Absolutely. However, my intentions
Speaker 1: I think have been terribly misconstrued and misconceived. Let me
Speaker 1: go set this recordstrate. I never said I was in
Speaker 1: any exam room. That is an assumption, That is a
Speaker 1: false tya. I never said that it was being done
Speaker 1: present day as an eighteen year old six years old
Speaker 1: at the time. And I never said that her mother
Speaker 1: wasn't present. Yeah, I'm mom was present every time. You know,
Speaker 1: he was just you know, most fathers don't go, but
Speaker 1: he was just present and he didn't make the adopt disappointment.
Speaker 1: It's already you know, appointment and all of these things,
Speaker 1: all of the this narrative, this false narrative, has just
Speaker 1: been sensationalized. So at the time, her mother welcomed your presence,
Speaker 1: and your daughter did too, absolutely, and that was never
Speaker 1: any objection. She did have a problem with me talking
Speaker 1: about it, however, and I understand that, and I am
Speaker 1: incredibly apologetic to her for that, to her, to you,
Speaker 1: sweet baby Daja, not to any of these other strangers
Speaker 1: and any of these weirdos who you know, just kind
Speaker 1: of toss lies around for fun. Yeah, she understands my intentions,
Speaker 1: and she knows who I am, she knows who I've
Speaker 1: always been, and I think that that allows a certain
Speaker 1: level of understanding. I mean, it's just the outside. The
Speaker 1: noise is it's distracting, it is confusing and hurtful. It
Speaker 1: is it's hurtful and embarrassing. She was horrified. Well, I
Speaker 1: definitely understood why she would be, you know, feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, it was personal to her. Dass a quiet.
Speaker 1: She doesn't talk a lot. She doesn't you know, you know,
Speaker 1: you have to nudge things out of her right because
Speaker 1: we as women understand how especially for a young girl,
Speaker 1: how delicate and what it exposes about her very private,
Speaker 1: especially to intimate life. Yeah, I don't. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't get it. I was oblivious to it. However I
Speaker 1: am now sensitive to it for her. Yeah, for her.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, when when when the
Speaker 1: number two hit the fan, and I hadn't addressed it,
Speaker 1: you know, at her request, I was taking the bullets,
Speaker 1: and that's not I don't have a problem with that.
Speaker 1: I'm finding the fire. Finding the fire, no problem with that.
Speaker 1: My daughter said, just let it go, don't say nothing,
Speaker 1: just let it go. And I didn't until I had
Speaker 1: different directors. Okay, go ahead, make a stop. Clear it up.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. And I would not be
Speaker 1: here today had I not had those different directors, I'd
Speaker 1: still be sitting in silence. I want to learn from you.
Speaker 1: I have three powerful, independent, brilliant women, and I want
Speaker 1: to know what is the purpose and place of a
Speaker 1: father in this society, Because a father like myself who
Speaker 1: wants to be as involved and as attentive as possible,
Speaker 1: we could draw the conclusion of we just donate sperm
Speaker 1: and come pay for things, and we don't really have
Speaker 1: no say so in high things that's not true. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's the case at all, And I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody has a problem with you being involved in that.
Speaker 1: I think it was more like, that's so so very personal.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody has a problem with you protecting
Speaker 1: a daughter. No, that's not the issue of you and
Speaker 1: having been a young girl myself, having raised several young
Speaker 1: women and realizing that a woman's journey in regards to
Speaker 1: her sexuality has to be guided right mostly I think
Speaker 1: by mother's that's just me personally, okay, but mother and
Speaker 1: truly understanding what that journey is, takes her daughter's hand
Speaker 1: and walks her through. That's how I work that out
Speaker 1: with Will. There's just certain things about raising a man
Speaker 1: that I can't know. I would tell him, love your daughter,
Speaker 1: let me teach her, because there's certain sensitivities that you
Speaker 1: might not understand and have just because of your relationship
Speaker 1: in the world is different than a woman's relationship. Like
Speaker 1: I knew when you talked about it, because I live
Speaker 1: with a man it loves his daughter, right, you know,
Speaker 1: in the conversations I've had to have with him in
Speaker 1: regards to what is protecting her, what is educating her,
Speaker 1: what is actually allowing her to self actualize as her
Speaker 1: own individual self versus control? Right, So, when I heard
Speaker 1: what happened, I said, I know what he's trying to say.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm present. I'm present in a way that
Speaker 1: anything that she needs, any kind of trouble, I feel
Speaker 1: like she might be in I'm right here. I got it.
Speaker 1: I got it. I totally understood that. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, especially when we're dealing with these kind of
Speaker 1: sensitive issues, knowing the extent of that protection, the idea
Speaker 1: that people thought you were trying to control your daughter's
Speaker 1: virginity versus no, because that's very different question ask it. Okay,
Speaker 1: first of all, the world, control is very but you
Speaker 1: know that's what it sounds like. No, but in order
Speaker 1: to guide or direct, you must have a certain level
Speaker 1: of control of anything. Okay, So so, so how do
Speaker 1: you want us to understand your level of control on
Speaker 1: what you were speaking of? Well, I think that in
Speaker 1: the age or the time where our women, black women
Speaker 1: are the most unprotected and disregarded women on the planet,
Speaker 1: I'm being criticized because I'm willing to go above and
Speaker 1: beyond to protect mine and I'm talking about all of
Speaker 1: the little slimmy, grimmy, chepy fingered little boys who want
Speaker 1: to just come in, defile and destroy the sanctity that
Speaker 1: I have. Amen, Listen, I'm just saying, right, I don't
Speaker 1: understand anything. That is the most important thing to me
Speaker 1: in my life. I am going to deal with that
Speaker 1: with very extreme care, and I don't understand how that
Speaker 1: is looked at. Its being so wrong in order to control.
Speaker 1: For that to be mallest, there must be ill intent.
Speaker 1: If I'm going to the doctor with you just for
Speaker 1: the sake of controlling you, that okay. But if I'm
Speaker 1: going for the purpose of being a protective parent, and
Speaker 1: there's no thing there's no such thing as overprotective. That's
Speaker 1: protected and unprotected. But what's what's important to you? Though,
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's so much about virginity as
Speaker 1: much or was it well to me, I am here
Speaker 1: to protect all of the children from themselves until they
Speaker 1: make it to a point where they have awareness, a
Speaker 1: sense of self and discernment to be able to make
Speaker 1: certain decisions on their own that will impact their lives indefinitely.
Speaker 1: So you felt as though, when she's fifteen, sixteen years old,
Speaker 1: that she might not have the understanding of what it
Speaker 1: means to engage in absolutely since you turned eighteen, Like
Speaker 1: I don't have control of anything, and don't you you
Speaker 1: don't you know what I mean? Run fly, be yourself
Speaker 1: now getting her there, especially in a day where there's
Speaker 1: so much input, so many other perspectives thrown at children,
Speaker 1: like you know, from YouTube to Instagram, like the concept
Speaker 1: of love, beauty, life, sex, all of those things. Those
Speaker 1: lines are being blurred every second, so there has to
Speaker 1: be someone there to clarify what is acceptable what is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: I trust and believe that I put moral standards, principles
Speaker 1: and greatness and all of my children. But until they
Speaker 1: learn how to unlock it and use those powers for themselves,
Speaker 1: that has to be harnessed. When I think about the
Speaker 1: girls that I've raised, I was never really trying to
Speaker 1: protect their virginia versus making sure that they had a
Speaker 1: level of understanding and maturity before going into certain things.
Speaker 1: But it was never about well out of virgin It's
Speaker 1: not protecting. I'm not there to protect necessarily virginity. I
Speaker 1: just know that is a big move. Right now. You
Speaker 1: make that move, Okay, there are things that happened that
Speaker 1: follow you have to be equipped, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're equipped or I don't know, like I have to.
Speaker 1: Awareness is my first line of defense, right, So that's different.
Speaker 1: Okay I don't know how, but okay, that's education. You
Speaker 1: only have but so much control. Right So I have
Speaker 1: been vocal about what to expect or not to expect,
Speaker 1: foolishly of young men. You know, as she begin ends
Speaker 1: to engage and socialize, just hey, man, listening, keep your
Speaker 1: expectations low. You can't get your feelings wrapped up in this. Now.
Speaker 1: This is this is a physical urge, this animalistic urge
Speaker 1: is taking over right here. This is not an emotional
Speaker 1: romantic encounter for this gentleman. Don't think it is. Do
Speaker 1: you think that's the part you were trying to protect
Speaker 1: her from? Yes, because if you are, if you aren't
Speaker 1: feel like young boys that age, would not be able
Speaker 1: to care for defile and distract, care for your daughter
Speaker 1: emotionally and the way in which you think she deserves.
Speaker 1: And that's what it was about. I mean, definitely all
Speaker 1: of the above. She definitely should be free for what
Speaker 1: could potentially come from, you know, doing the duke. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? The dangers of pregnancy, the dangers
Speaker 1: of diseases, the dangers of you know, just having your
Speaker 1: heart broken, thrown away and discarded, not to be forgotten.
Speaker 1: Let's say that you went to the darkness appointment that
Speaker 1: first of all, we all know that hymans can be
Speaker 1: broken by riding a horse. It can be like it's like,
Speaker 1: and you could be very sexually active in your hyman.
Speaker 1: Be intact that that is. These are all things that
Speaker 1: that you are learning as a man, and I'm looking
Speaker 1: to you guys to educate. Well, let me ask you
Speaker 1: another question. Man. Let's say that you found out that
Speaker 1: she at fifteen or sixteen years old wasn't a virgin.
Speaker 1: What would you have done that? Your childhood is when
Speaker 1: you lose your virginity. That's it that you now you
Speaker 1: ended your childhood and it's time to begin adulthood. And
Speaker 1: I can't let you run around trying to enjoy the
Speaker 1: luxuries of adulthood without any of the responsibilities of adulthood.
Speaker 1: But when you say your childhood and who you mean like,
Speaker 1: you must heighten the level of responsibility. That could be
Speaker 1: birth control, it could be financial or just having a plan.
Speaker 1: You can't just run around not nor what you want
Speaker 1: to do no more. You can't just run around like,
Speaker 1: oh I figured out later. No, now you've made a
Speaker 1: decision that you want to be an adult. Now you
Speaker 1: need to have a plan together. You need to because
Speaker 1: if you figured this out, you need to have all
Speaker 1: this figured that too, right, But I need to just
Speaker 1: say this though. I still feel like it would have
Speaker 1: been different if it was your son versus your daughter, right,
Speaker 1: And I always think it's so interesting and how men
Speaker 1: treasure their daughter's virginity but not their sons. I I
Speaker 1: kind of made the comparison of a son versus a daughter.
Speaker 1: If my son goes out and gets a girl pregnant,
Speaker 1: how is the household changed for those nine months? The
Speaker 1: household does not necessarily change those nine months, whereas if
Speaker 1: my daughter come home, my household has changed immediately. So
Speaker 1: the stakes are highed. We were raised to provide and protect.
Speaker 1: I don't recall having much of a childhood besides figuring
Speaker 1: ways to get my mama to get over you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So I think that if there is
Speaker 1: any more to be taught, it has to come in
Speaker 1: the form of philosophy, not punish me. Absolutely, you just
Speaker 1: brought up something that I think is very interesting, the
Speaker 1: conditioning that comes with being a father. We all have
Speaker 1: been conditioned in a way to exactly and I think
Speaker 1: that in this very sensitive time when we have all
Speaker 1: this social media and social justice issues around um, the
Speaker 1: female body. This is the thing about the female body.
Speaker 1: I think the conversation is different when it comes to
Speaker 1: mom than when it comes to dad. You see, very different,
Speaker 1: you know it, and I don't understand it. I mean
Speaker 1: because the same thing we're talking about, just like you said,
Speaker 1: the virginity of my daughter versus the virginity of my son. Okay,
Speaker 1: so it's the same conversation around mom versus dad. Because
Speaker 1: mom can tell daughter not to cut her hair, not
Speaker 1: the perman hair, not to color her hair, uh, not
Speaker 1: to get pearsons or whatever, but she can give her
Speaker 1: body away to anybody she wants to do without Pop
Speaker 1: saying anything. Well, here's the thing, though, this is what
Speaker 1: you have to understand. Though. It's a patriarchal structure that
Speaker 1: is not all. Yes, I heard the term before. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that term was the thing patriarch with. Well,
Speaker 1: it's like it is structured by the views and the
Speaker 1: outlook of men. Okay, and it tends to be at
Speaker 1: times often oppressive to the feminine journey. Okay, has the
Speaker 1: fit has had females actually tried to explain absolutely, that's
Speaker 1: why you have feminists. That's why you have womanists, because
Speaker 1: I think the feminists. Sometimes it can be misconstrued by
Speaker 1: people who don't understand it as women wanting men to
Speaker 1: stop silencing them so they could silence men. Well, it's
Speaker 1: not that. There's a lot that happens since the feminine
Speaker 1: feminine journey, right, it's often told or seen and left
Speaker 1: through the eyes of men who know nothing about women
Speaker 1: and what we're going through. Boom. That's the point because
Speaker 1: I felt like, even when I heard what happened, I said, oh,
Speaker 1: he doesn't understand the level. He found out how serious
Speaker 1: it was and how personal it was after he said it,
Speaker 1: because you know, you know, he didn't think about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I understood that just because I'm in this house,
Speaker 1: will he be saying the craziest stuff. He don't understand
Speaker 1: the level. And thank god he has me and he's
Speaker 1: got Willow, so we educate that joke before he leaves
Speaker 1: this house. You know what I mean. He's one of
Speaker 1: those that likes to tell stories and he's like, John's
Speaker 1: goes too far. Willow has gone at her dad several
Speaker 1: times for very insensitive comments, whether it's around menstruation or
Speaker 1: you know, like you must be pe a message. She's
Speaker 1: like that, right there, we're not gonna do that, right.
Speaker 1: I don't see the problem with that. I do see
Speaker 1: the problem, but I just I understand that I don't
Speaker 1: understand see what we are landing. See, this is the
Speaker 1: point right here where we are man see every days
Speaker 1: working progress. What I appreciate about this moment and what
Speaker 1: I appreciate about you is understanding that this is a
Speaker 1: teachable moment. And also I think that it's great for
Speaker 1: me to have this opportunity. And I think that all
Speaker 1: things happen in life for a reason. You know, every
Speaker 1: lesson has a purpose and it must be dealt with
Speaker 1: different but out of care and out of concern, not
Speaker 1: out of control and out of education. I don't think
Speaker 1: that our community, I culture, our generation can be pushed
Speaker 1: forward by having comfortable, convenient discussions. We have to have
Speaker 1: tough discussions in order to move forward. Right. And I
Speaker 1: knew when I heard it, Huh, I said, there's a
Speaker 1: big misunderstand I misunderstand and I knew that first. You
Speaker 1: for that, and that's why I wouldn't come anywhere to
Speaker 1: speak about this, because I know most people just use
Speaker 1: it as a platform for themselves. And I understood why
Speaker 1: people misunderstood you. So sorry, Willow can make you well,
Speaker 1: you know what, I think he might be happy in
Speaker 1: the long run. So let me ask you this. Hold it.
Speaker 1: We're not done yet. I never ever ever had sex
Speaker 1: with anyone while we've been married. I have never ever
Speaker 1: ever lied about this. Tell you what talking part two
Speaker 1: of our conversation with t I and Tiny. They have
Speaker 1: been through it. I see the emotion in your eyes
Speaker 1: from prison. So when I got back everything the world
Speaker 1: was upside down to the brink of divorce. This conversation,
Speaker 1: this problem, is the exact same thing will and I
Speaker 1: had to work through. Next Red Table Talking a r
Speaker 1: t T family. Join our Red Table Talk group on
Speaker 1: Facebook to become part of the conversation, and be sure
Speaker 1: to follow the show page to catch up on all
Speaker 1: our episodes. All right, now, I'm here with my favorite
Speaker 1: couple in the gang ties and Times. We're gonna talk
Speaker 1: about how they have survived and made their marriage strong.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we gotta talk about that other thing. Swipe
Speaker 1: up to join the red table Talk family and become
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation. Follow us at facebook dot
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Speaker 1: episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch,
Speaker 1: Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.