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Speaker 1: Welcome to the piked and Massacre, a production of Katie

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Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio. This special episode will recap our previous

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Speaker 1: seasons to get you up to date on the case

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Speaker 1: and mark your calendars because season three premiers May twenty fifth.

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Speaker 1: Multiple people found dead in more than one location along

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Speaker 1: Union Hill Road in Piked In this morning, my two

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Speaker 1: PM investigators say they found eight people dead, seven adult

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Speaker 1: victims and a sixteen year old boy, all from the

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Speaker 1: Rodent family. Just a nightmare scenario, all of them shot

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Speaker 1: in the head execution style. They were trying to possibly

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Speaker 1: wipe out this entire family. It's absolutely shocking. I hope

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Speaker 1: that the infortune in this area apprehend eaching everyone. These

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Speaker 1: are people, these are monsters. This has been by far

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Speaker 1: the longest, most complex and labor intensive investigation the Ohio

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Speaker 1: Attorney General's Office has ever undertaken. On your knee havendernderback. Yesterday,

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Speaker 1: a Pike County grand jury and died four individuals for

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Speaker 1: aggravated murder with death pality specifications for legilate committing this heartless,

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Speaker 1: ruthless murder. One family targeted, murdered in their sleep, and

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Speaker 1: the killers vanished. It's personal somebody was trying to send

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Speaker 1: a message. Everyone was talking about who could have done

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Speaker 1: it and why they would have done it. I want

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Speaker 1: to know exactly what happened that night. Thirty two gunshot wounds,

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Speaker 1: eight people dead, two families destroyed, one grizzly crime. What

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Speaker 1: will happen is anyone's guests. This is the Piked and

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Speaker 1: Massacre Seasons one and two recap How we got here.

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Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie

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Speaker 1: Leidecker and Jeff Shane. Our journey started back in twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen when we made a documentary about the crime, and

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Speaker 1: we've been covering the story ever since. I think I

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Speaker 1: speak for all of us. Would I say that from

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Speaker 1: then until now we have not been able to shake

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Speaker 1: it or get it out of our heads. I think

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Speaker 1: for me personally, the part of this case that continues

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Speaker 1: to haunt me is the fact that there were mothers

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Speaker 1: brutally murdered in front of their babies. What kind of

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Speaker 1: a monster would do that. We've had the benefit of

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Speaker 1: going to Pike County many times and have interviewed to date,

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Speaker 1: probably hundreds of people, whether that's local townspeople or experts

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Speaker 1: or family members to the victims and family members of

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Speaker 1: the accused. And one thing we can say, in a

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Speaker 1: small town like this, there's not a single person that

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Speaker 1: hasn't been affected by this hideous story. And there's not

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Speaker 1: a single person you can talk to on the street

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Speaker 1: that doesn't know somebody connected to it in a meaningful way.

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Speaker 1: Through all these conversations, we began to piece together and

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Speaker 1: what happened on that fateful night. As you'll learn in

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Speaker 1: the upcoming season three, there is still so much left

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Speaker 1: to unravel in the community. Here's piked In, Native barb.

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Speaker 1: Piked In's considered a village, and it is just a

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Speaker 1: small little town that has a grocery store and a

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Speaker 1: pizza shop and gas stations, and there's a tire shop.

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Speaker 1: People sit and talk at the gas station. Wherever they go,

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Speaker 1: people know each other and they just sit and talk.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the tire shop you're waiting for an

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Speaker 1: oil and oil change or whatever. You sit there and

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Speaker 1: chat with your neighbor or whoever happens to come in.

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Speaker 1: You know somebody anywhere you go. But at some point,

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Speaker 1: out in the shadow of its Green Hills, the area

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Speaker 1: has an erie passed everybody thinks all the bad stuff

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Speaker 1: happens in the big cities, but the devil works at

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Speaker 1: it everywhere. County and beautiful. It's a beautiful place, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of dirty people here too. From the

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Speaker 1: side of our town. There's been a lot of murders

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Speaker 1: here that have not been solved. On April twenty first,

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, evil reared its face in Pike County in

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Speaker 1: the dead of night under cool, cloudy skies. Eight people

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Speaker 1: were brutally shot and killed in four separate homes. I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget that day. I'll never forget that day. I

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Speaker 1: had gone into the office at the high school to

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Speaker 1: pick Brittany up for an appointment. And when I walked in,

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Speaker 1: they had a TV on and everyone in there was

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Speaker 1: sitting with their mouths hanging open, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on in here? And the secretaries said, my god,

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Speaker 1: there's been a shooting. They said six people were killed,

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Speaker 1: and she said, we are very worried because little Chris

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Speaker 1: Roden didn't show up today and we think he might

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Speaker 1: be one of them. Everyone was just in shock. So

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Speaker 1: a little Chris law enforcement because I couldn't find him.

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Speaker 1: There was some speculation early on that he might have

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Speaker 1: been involved. For the residence of piked In There was

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Speaker 1: little more than confusion at this point. People knew there

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Speaker 1: was a shooting and that Chris Roden Jr. A sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old freshman at Pikedon High was missing. Where was

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Speaker 1: the teen? It was at the home of Chris Roden

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Speaker 1: Senior that the nightmare began. Chris Roden Senior was known

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Speaker 1: to be a strong, hard working family man. He was,

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Speaker 1: you know, a great father. He was a good man,

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Speaker 1: just like the rest of the guys you know in

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Speaker 1: that family. He would do anything for anybody. Chrissenden and

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Speaker 1: Roden were married for twenty two years, and although they divorced,

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Speaker 1: they remained close, So close that Chris Senior had recently

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Speaker 1: bought Dana a home on the same road he lived

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Speaker 1: on Union Hill Road. He did it so they could

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Speaker 1: stay close to their children. Chris Senior's cousin, Gary Roden,

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Speaker 1: was more like a brother to him and often stayed

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Speaker 1: at his place. Little Chris's aunt, Bobby Joe, who also

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Speaker 1: lived nearby, was the first to make the gruesome discovery

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Speaker 1: at seven forty nine am when she came to feed

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Speaker 1: the dogs. The patriarch of the family, Chris Rodin was dead.

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Speaker 1: He looked like he'd been beaten to death. Chris's cousin,

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Speaker 1: Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris, was also dead.

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Speaker 1: What's the saying, christ were unting Harry rod and Frank

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Speaker 1: and Garry Roden star times in. It look like the

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Speaker 1: dad right there? Both good? I think the very sad.

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Speaker 1: The iPhone has been to pop out. Okay, you're anybody

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Speaker 1: open of the house. I don't know us. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: door was awfull. We got here, but on her friends,

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Speaker 1: I'm here and her rating on the floor. Bobby, I

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Speaker 1: need to get out of the house and way done. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll started right now. Okay, just watch this. Three year

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Speaker 1: old Christopher Roden was the only one of the eight

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Speaker 1: family members who was shot somewhere other than the head,

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Speaker 1: and he had multiple gunshot wounds to the head. Torso

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Speaker 1: and Extremities Corner Distinguished Professor and Criminals forensic expert Joseph

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Speaker 1: Morgan tried to make sense of the Roden murders, starting

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Speaker 1: with father and family patriarch Chris Senior. Some of this

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Speaker 1: will be hard to hear, particularly if you're personally connected

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Speaker 1: to the tragedy, but it's important to understand the magnitude

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Speaker 1: of what happened that night. He was shot nine times. Now,

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Speaker 1: for me, as a forensic investigator, I would look at

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Speaker 1: that and I would deem that as overkill, And you know,

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Speaker 1: why would somebody need to be shot nine times. They're

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Speaker 1: saying that there's evidence that he attempted or reacted at

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Speaker 1: least to the point where he raised his arm his

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Speaker 1: right form and it shattered one of the bones. When

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Speaker 1: you've got an individual that has gotten defensive loans, that

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Speaker 1: person has an awareness, so that goes to a level

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Speaker 1: of callousness that's roses to victim. Gary Rodin, Chris Senior's cousin,

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Speaker 1: was a beloved member of the family. By all accounts,

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Speaker 1: Gary and Chris Senior were very close. Gary just happened

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Speaker 1: to be at Chris's home that night. He was actually

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Speaker 1: from Kentucky, so you know, he didn't even live in

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Speaker 1: the area or the neighborhood, but you know, lived close

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Speaker 1: enough to where he was staying with Chris that evening.

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Speaker 1: We do know that the shooter was very close to

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Speaker 1: Gary when they fired, because they talked about what is

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Speaker 1: referred to as a press contact events at wanted and

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Speaker 1: if our listeners will essentially take your index finger, okay,

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Speaker 1: and point it toward the palm of your hand and

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Speaker 1: extend the tip of your finger maybe I don't know,

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Speaker 1: probably about half an inch away from the surface of

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Speaker 1: your palm. That's kind of what we will refer to

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Speaker 1: as a contact moon. And what that means is that

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Speaker 1: you're going to have you know, the bullet's not the

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Speaker 1: only thing coming out of the end of the weapon.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have the fire that actually the ignition

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Speaker 1: of a bullet, and around you'll have this burning of

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Speaker 1: powder that's coming out. You'll have unburned powder that's coming out.

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Speaker 1: So this is a very intimate event. I spoke with

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Speaker 1: Mike Gallen, criminal defense attorney from Ohio. Are you able

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Speaker 1: to talk about the scenes themselves? You know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at it and it's all from the autopsy reports,

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Speaker 1: those kind of injuries leaves no doubt that this was

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Speaker 1: an intentional or these all were intentional killings, kind of

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Speaker 1: designed to send a message to someone. The muzzle mark

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Speaker 1: sticks in my mind. You have to be obviously arms reach.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you are locking eyes with the victim. It

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Speaker 1: would seem does that paint any kind of picture or

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Speaker 1: indicate to officers or attorneys anything. Sure it does, and

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Speaker 1: maybe even closer than arm's length, I mean maybe just inches.

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Speaker 1: It indicates to me at least, especially when you have

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Speaker 1: the number of shots like that here, that somebody was

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Speaker 1: trying to send a message. I don't think there can

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Speaker 1: be any doubt about that. I mean, it was personal,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's what that demonstrates. At this point,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Josie's two people did by twelve gunshot wounds. While

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Speaker 1: waiting desperately for police to arrive, she makes her way

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Speaker 1: over to her nephew, Frankie's house. She wanted to get

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Speaker 1: some help and to tell him what happened to his

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Speaker 1: father and uncle, whose bodies she had just found. Frankie

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Speaker 1: Rowden was Chris Senior and Dana's oldest son. The twenty

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Speaker 1: year old was a father to two boys. Like his parents,

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Speaker 1: Frankie was a hard worker. He loved fishing, hunting, and

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Speaker 1: demolition derby, but nothing so much as his family and

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Speaker 1: his fiance, nineteen year old Hannah Gilly. Hannah Gilly was

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Speaker 1: on the homecoming court in high school, and at that

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Speaker 1: time she told friends she planned to go to college

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Speaker 1: get a business degree and open a daycare. Frankie and

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Speaker 1: Hannah wanted a lot of kids. They had a bright future.

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Speaker 1: The young family lived together just up the street from

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Speaker 1: Chris Senior All on Union Hill Road. They were looking

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Speaker 1: forward to getting married soon. So after Bobby Joe made

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Speaker 1: the call to nine one one, she went to Frankie's

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Speaker 1: house near right nearby, and the person who came to

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Speaker 1: the door was Frankie's three year old son. As the

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Speaker 1: police reports and newspaper reports showed, he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: covered in blood, and he, like any three year old,

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Speaker 1: sort of didn't fully understand what was going on. And

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Speaker 1: he told his aunt that, you know, his father was

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Speaker 1: playing zombie in the bedroom, and that's because the family

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Speaker 1: were fans of The Walking Dead, so you know, he

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Speaker 1: was in there with his father playing zombie, which is

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Speaker 1: absolutely heartbreaking. Twenty year old Frankie Rodin was shot three

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Speaker 1: Toms in the head miss he lay in bed next

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Speaker 1: to his fiance and they're six months old. We talk

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Speaker 1: about Hannah Gillie Hayes shot five Tom's she catches one

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Speaker 1: in the eye. It poses this idea, why are you

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Speaker 1: shooting these people in the face, what's the purpose? Of it,

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Speaker 1: because not only shoot him in the face, you're shooting

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Speaker 1: him multiple talked. What threat did she post? She's laying

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Speaker 1: there was her child in the bed meanwhile, and this

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Speaker 1: is all happening. Around eight am on April twenty second,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe calls their brother James. She's in hysterics. There's

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Speaker 1: now two murder scenes, four people dead, twenty gunshot wounds,

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Speaker 1: two children left alive. At the scenes, James immediately goes

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Speaker 1: over to a sister, Dana's house, to check on her

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Speaker 1: and the remaining kids. Dana Rodin was a nurse known

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Speaker 1: for her gregarious nature and loving smile. She'd met Chris

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Speaker 1: Rudd Senior when she was just in high school and

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Speaker 1: it was love at first sight. Even though they divorced

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Speaker 1: twenty two years later, they remained very close together. The

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Speaker 1: pair had three beautiful children, twenty year old Frankie, Hannah May,

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Speaker 1: and little Chris. She's goodhearted, a lot of fun, you know,

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Speaker 1: always laughing, cracking up. She was a very very good person.

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Speaker 1: She sent me a text she slid my grand babies

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Speaker 1: here and I said, well, congratulations, I said, she's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: What did you What did Hannah May name her? She said,

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Speaker 1: Kylie May, and I said, that's so pretty. And that

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Speaker 1: was the last, you know, the last thing I ever

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Speaker 1: heard from Dana. She again, like Chris Senior, was shot

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Speaker 1: multiple times. And not only was she shot multiple times,

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Speaker 1: but specifically reports have her having been shot five times,

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Speaker 1: four times. Four Tom's in the head. Now, what in

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Speaker 1: the hell would you shoot somebody four times in the head,

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Speaker 1: because you know one should suffice. But the shooter took

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Speaker 1: the top to take that muzzle of that weapon. Stick

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Speaker 1: it beneath Dana's chin, stick it beneath her chia. This

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Speaker 1: is a common location for suicide, all right, This is

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Speaker 1: atypical for homicide. This particular April seemed extra special because

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Speaker 1: hannahme had just given birth to her second daughter five

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Speaker 1: days prior. Just weeks before that, Dana threw Hannah May

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Speaker 1: a big baby shower at their new house. The pictures

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Speaker 1: from the showers show what a happy celebration it was. Sadly, James,

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Speaker 1: Dana's brother, was about to enter yet one more unimaginable scene.

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Speaker 1: Dana and her nineteen year old daughter, Hannah May, were

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Speaker 1: both dead. Hannah Rodin She was shot twice in the

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Speaker 1: head as their newborn laid beside her. Maybe they're curled

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Speaker 1: in a fetal posture along with her baby, just curled

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Speaker 1: in a fetal posture. Mama was slowly stroking the head

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Speaker 1: of the baby and try to, you know, calp suit

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Speaker 1: the baby during the night. Maybe she awakes and breastfeeds

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Speaker 1: the baby during the night while she's sleeping. It's a

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Speaker 1: position and people are slept in for thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of years. It's a position of comfort. You imagine you're

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Speaker 1: laying there, you're there to protect your baby, and you're

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Speaker 1: curled up on your side. There's an awareness. This brings

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Speaker 1: us back to when Dana's son, the high school freshman

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Speaker 1: Chris Junior, was nowhere to be found. It took detectives

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Speaker 1: several hours to locate him, but finally little Chris was

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Speaker 1: found in the home with his mother, Dana, and his

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Speaker 1: sister Hannah. May sixteen year old Chris Junior was shot

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Speaker 1: four times and looting twice in the top of his head.

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Speaker 1: He was found wedged behind his bed, implying that he

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Speaker 1: was trying to hide from the killer killers. There's now

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Speaker 1: seven people dead, thirty one gunshot wounds, and three children

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Speaker 1: left alive. At the scenes the once small and sleepy

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Speaker 1: town became the epicenter for grizzly crime and the subsequent

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Speaker 1: complex murder investigation. When it was all said and done,

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Speaker 1: two families would be destroyed and the town would never

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Speaker 1: be the same. For the quiet town, the scene was unreal.

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Speaker 1: Nearly seven hours after the first bodies were found at

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Speaker 1: one twenty six pm on April twenty second, a final

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Speaker 1: fatal discovery. Yeah, I need it. He's been out to

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Speaker 1: closet to seven nine nine lad Force. Uh, it's boldest stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's on the news. I just found just sound my

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Speaker 1: cousin was again shot wing. Okay it line so okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm understand how by the very way going to the

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Speaker 1: whole thing? Donald So done the whole thing? Sound yeah,

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Speaker 1: I says, what do you mean, Rodyn Rody? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: care honey, out of the house. I'm I'm out of

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Speaker 1: the house right now. I just went in hour day

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Speaker 1: and he checked light and I looked to say he

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Speaker 1: had again shot wind. Okay, We're gonna get that Nick

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Speaker 1: down thirty okay, all right, chick Martin. A few miles

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Speaker 1: down unionholl Road was Chris Roden Senior's brother. There, Kenneth

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Speaker 1: the forty four year old was shot once through his

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Speaker 1: right eye. Kenneth's cousin, Donald Stone, went to check on

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Speaker 1: Kenneth after hearing about the murders of their six other

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Speaker 1: family members. He'd failed to hear from Kenneth that day.

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Speaker 1: What does it say that they would take the time

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Speaker 1: and put themselves in a position where they could be

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Speaker 1: face to face with Kenneth. He was found covered with

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Speaker 1: dollar bills that were strewn about his body. He just God,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't, you can't make this up. By

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Speaker 1: the time officials released the names of the eight victims

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Speaker 1: piked In, residents were reeling. You know, they had snuck

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Speaker 1: in in the night and committed this, these murders, and

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Speaker 1: nobody had a clue about you know who or why,

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Speaker 1: And that's really scary. We're going to take a break.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. There were rumors about

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Speaker 1: who had done the crime everywhere online, in the coffee shops,

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Speaker 1: amongst the police. I mean, everyone was talking about who

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Speaker 1: could have done it and why they would have done it.

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Speaker 1: Investigators believe that the murders were clearly premeditated, but the

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Speaker 1: killing spree was so staggering and merseless. There were endless questions.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things investigators studied where confrontations the

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Speaker 1: roads had with locals in recent years. Could these conflicts

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Speaker 1: have triggered a vendetta against the family. There was one

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Speaker 1: concerning incident that had happened at a demolition derby. Based

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Speaker 1: on what's been reported in the court documents, I think

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Speaker 1: it's fair to say that Frankie and Chris Junior, I

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Speaker 1: mean definitely were hotheads. It definitely got into fights here

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Speaker 1: and there. They had an incident with a fellow named

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Speaker 1: Tommy Gorman, who was a rival in the demolish Derby's.

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Speaker 1: They got into a bit of a sort of heated

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Speaker 1: match and there was a believe a sort of incident

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Speaker 1: on the track. They got him to stay with each

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Speaker 1: other's bad blood. And then again it's you know, kind

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Speaker 1: of kicked up speed with Facebook posts about sort of

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Speaker 1: consulting each other. And then of course Chris Junior Frankie

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Speaker 1: drove over to Gorman's house and proceeded to really beat

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Speaker 1: on Gorman and his father and they fights and meetings

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Speaker 1: were only really broken up after the grandfather came out

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Speaker 1: and pumped a few shotgun shells into the air. Chris

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Speaker 1: Junior had also gotten into a scuffle with another local

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Speaker 1: kid named Rusty mongol On. Goldhead posted on Facebook that

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Speaker 1: Chris Janior hit him with a car and in his message,

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Speaker 1: you know, he uses some pretty tough language. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Rusty was nineteen at the time, and you know he's

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Speaker 1: talking about I'm going to break his fucking legs and

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Speaker 1: curb stop his ass and sort of nineteen year old bluster. Really,

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Speaker 1: the Rusty Mungle thing happened just two weeks before the murders.

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Speaker 1: But please scoured both of these leads, even taking DNA

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Speaker 1: evidence of the suspects, they came up empty. An ominous

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Speaker 1: feeling had spread throughout Pike County. He was investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Jodi Barr. You got eight members of one family targeted,

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Speaker 1: murdered in their sleep, in their homes, and the killers

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Speaker 1: seemingly vanished. We didn't know the pieces, We didn't know

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Speaker 1: how to put it together. There was no information coming

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Speaker 1: out about these murders, about motives. Even the family members

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Speaker 1: who were in direct communication with law enforcement, even they

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Speaker 1: weren't being told anything. I mean, it's called it good

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Speaker 1: investigative work, and you hold your cards close to the chest.

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Speaker 1: As an investigator. Maybe that's what it was, but from

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Speaker 1: the outside looking in, it was almost like law enforcement

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Speaker 1: didn't have a clue at that point in time. Led

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Speaker 1: by an ambitious Sheriff Charles Reader, the ensuing investigation soon

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Speaker 1: became the largest in Ohio's history. I've got a message

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Speaker 1: for the killers. We will find you. The family and

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Speaker 1: the victims will have justice one day. There are so

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00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: many pieces that have to be put into place with this.

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Speaker 1: You're leap frogging from this blood bath to another blood bath.

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Speaker 1: One of the first major developments in the case came

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Speaker 1: when Mike Dwine, then Ohio's Attorney General, announced that he

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Speaker 1: believed the killings were planned and premeditated. He cited clear

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Speaker 1: efforts taken by the shooter or shooters to remove any

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Speaker 1: incriminating forensic evidence. The Attorney Channel Dwine at the time

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00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: said it was a pretty sophisticated operation, and the people

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Speaker 1: that carried it out, we're trying to do everything that

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Speaker 1: they could to make sure that they didn't get caught.

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Speaker 1: Attorney General Dwine and Sheriff Reader, they both said that

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Speaker 1: the investigation was going to be a long one and

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Speaker 1: a lengthy process, and Boyd sure has played out that way,

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Speaker 1: an investigative task force of massive scope kicked into gear,

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Speaker 1: led by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation the BCI.

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Speaker 1: More than two hundred and fifty one law enforcement officials

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Speaker 1: were mobilized, including sheriffs from twenty five offices across Ohio.

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Speaker 1: The FBI and the DA stepped in to provide technical

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Speaker 1: expertise to Dwine's office. Solemn funerals were held for all

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Speaker 1: the victims. For two years, not a single arrest was made.

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Speaker 1: You lived in that area, man, it was hush hush.

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Speaker 1: You were just kind of walking around looking over your

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Speaker 1: shoulder at seeing with some of these people, not knowing

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Speaker 1: you know, who could be next. Who did it? There

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Speaker 1: was one very curious lead that investigators had unhearthed. At

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Speaker 1: three of the crime scenes on Union Hill Road, police

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Speaker 1: found a substantial marijuana grow operation, including a grow house

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Speaker 1: harboring hundreds of cannabis plants. This grow operation on the

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Speaker 1: Rodents property was clearly being cultivated for sale. It was

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Speaker 1: also worth almost half a million dollars. The Rodents had

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Speaker 1: a pretty sizable crop of marijuana plants on their property.

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Speaker 1: You know, there were indications that they were involved in

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Speaker 1: some drug deals and drug trade with marijuana. That obviously

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Speaker 1: feeled even more speculation that these were outside operators, possibly

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Speaker 1: was as a drug deal gone bad, or was somebody

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Speaker 1: trying to take over their turf. All kinds of rumors

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00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: started to slow after that disclosure. As the months swore on.

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Speaker 1: No one's been arrested, no one charged, no people named

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Speaker 1: the person's of interest, You really started to wonder, you know,

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00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: maybe this drug cartail thing there was something too that

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00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: they definitely knew how to kill people. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: looking for signs of the drug cartail and then you

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Speaker 1: find Kenneth Roden with what appeared to be a gunshot

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Speaker 1: in the head, but that there were dollar bills or

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Speaker 1: some sort of paper money spread around the body. Was

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Speaker 1: that a sign? What did that mean? Could the Rodent's

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00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: operation have motivated a cartel hit, a lethal battle over territory?

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Speaker 1: It was a tenable idea. But over the next months,

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00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: as the investigation dug deeper, an entire new set of

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00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: possible culprits came into frame. The Wagner family, Angela Wagner

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00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: forty eight years old, her husband Billy Wagner, forty seven,

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00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: their two sons, George and Jake, both in their mid twenties,

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Speaker 1: Angela's mother, Rita Newcombe, and the family matriarch, Frederica Wagner.

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Speaker 1: Here's Jeff. The Wagners were a well known and well

395
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: to do family in the Piketon area, and Frederico Wagner

396
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: was at the helm of this. A self described entrepreneurs

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00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: she owned properties Oliver Pike County that spanned over seventeen

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Speaker 1: hundred acres and were valued at more than four million dollars.

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Speaker 1: She had also founded two nonprofits, Lucasville Mission, a church

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00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: that helps underprivileged children, and the Crystal Springs Home, a

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00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: facility that provides services to developmentally disabled adults. As we've

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00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: learned throughout the series, Frederica had her detractors as well

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00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: as her supporters in the community. We probably need to

404
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: clarify here. The Wagner seemed like a good, god fearing

405
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: country family, but police were gathering heart evidence linking the

406
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: Wagners to the crime, and the Wagners had had some

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00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: tangles with law enforcement in the past. In two thousand

408
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: in one, seemingly homespun mother Angela Wagner, along with Billy Wagner,

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00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: were charged with him properly handling a firearm in twenty

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00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: and twelve. They are both charged with receiving stolen property,

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00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: a felony. Investigators discovered that in the months prior to

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Speaker 1: the killings, the Wagners began making their own gun silencers.

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00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: Police believe silencers were necessary to pull these killings off

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00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: because they happened in such close proximity. Investigators also found

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00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: that the Wagner family had bought ammunition, a magazine clip,

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Speaker 1: a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. The

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Speaker 1: brass catcher is a bag that hooks on the side

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00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: of a firearm. It will catch spent cartridges, so every

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00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: time you pull the trigger, a cartridges is ejected. And

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Speaker 1: if you were really interested in not leaving anything behind,

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00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: as far as holistic evidence, it sounds like a great story.

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00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: This bag will collect the shell casing, so there's no

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00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: left behind. The bug detector so purely that helped someone

424
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 1: find Listening devices will sometimes create white moist a muffle

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00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: sounds or discussion. Authority search to seventy one acre farm

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00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: in Peebles that was once owned by Jake Wagner. Jake

427
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: was victim Hanname Roden's former boyfriend. The pair shared a

428
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: three year old child together, Jake and Hanname Rodin had

429
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: parted bitterly and were fighting over custody. At the time

430
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: of her murder. The vice was tightening around the Wagner family,

431
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: and some speculate that the only way they felt they

432
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: could escape it was to move four thousand miles away.

433
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: They moved to Alaska, which raised even more suspicions. But

434
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: then the very following month, law enforcement actually finally searches

435
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: properties where the Wagners lived, so that was really the

436
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,239
Speaker 1: first public indication that the Wagners were possible suspects, if

437
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: not people of interest. The Wagners made Keene, Alaska, their

438
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: new home. It's a tiny town south of Anchorage. All

439
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: the while they vehemently denied any wrongdoing. Jake's mother, Angela Wagner,

440
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: said her husband, Billy Wagner, and victim Chris Roden Senior,

441
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: were like brothers. She claimed that Billy would never harm Chris.

442
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: Billy's mother, grandmother, Frederica Wagner, said the Wagners were quote

443
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: a good Christian family and despite the speculation about the family,

444
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: many in Pike County couldn't figure the Wagners from murderers.

445
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: I read that and I had to laugh. I had

446
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: to laugh so hard. Okay, So you have to remember

447
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution. This

448
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: is something that you wouldn't learn on a DVD with

449
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: military background, Navy seals. I mean, whoever did it was

450
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: was brilliant. They're professional. These people are not professional killers. Now.

451
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: I think that is the common theme of this entire

452
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: story about Pike County and about this road and massacre,

453
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: is it seems just too far fetched out when you

454
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 1: try to connect the dots through the histories of you know,

455
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 1: how the Wagoners conducted their business, how they live their lives.

456
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: I don't know that I have seen any reporting, any

457
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: fact brought out about the Waggoners that would say, Yep,

458
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: there you go, mass murderers. I think that is the

459
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 1: draw that continues to keep people interested in this story,

460
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: is that you would have never seen any of this coming.

461
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: In the spring of twenty and eighteen, the Wagoners returned

462
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: to the pikes In area to take care of Billy's

463
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: aging father. The plan was to set up with care

464
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: and then returned to Alaska, but things did not go

465
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: as planned. If you seek about it, the Wagners were

466
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: scott free, they went to Alaska. It could have took

467
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: off and nobody could have ever seen them again ever,

468
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: But they came back here. They came back now the

469
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: way that I am, I would never do that. But

470
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: if I had pulled something off like that and got

471
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: away into that loan and went to Alaska, you know,

472
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: I'm packing my ship and I'm hitting the woods, and

473
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: nobody's ever going to see me again, I'm sure the

474
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: hell I'm not going to come back. The only way

475
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: I would come back is if I thought my ass

476
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: would covered. With their investigation reaching a fever pitch, then

477
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: Ohio Attorney General Mike Dwine and Pike County Sheriff Charlie

478
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Reader asked the public for information on the Wagner family.

479
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: I hope that the unfortunate in this area apprehend each

480
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: and everyone. These are peoples, these are monsters. Dwine said.

481
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: He was quote laser focused on the Wagners, their business dealings, vehicles, firearms,

482
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: and ammunition. Investigators had solid ballistic evidence connecting firearms using

483
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: the homicide with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners.

484
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: These included a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty

485
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: caliber handgun and a thirty caliber gun. They also recovered

486
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: a homemade silencer at the bottom of a well on

487
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: the Wagner's property. Well, good afternoon. We promised that the

488
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: day would come when a rush would be made in

489
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: the Pike County massacres today or is that today? In

490
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: a series of arrests that sent shockwaves through the insulated community,

491
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: six members of a local family, the Wagners, were taken

492
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: into custody hands up all night. Forty seven year old

493
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner is the patriarch of the Wagner family and

494
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: was arrested near Lexington, Kentucky, and a horse trailer that

495
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: was pulled over. Your name, I'm Wagner. I'm Wagaba. Angela

496
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: Wagner is Billy's wife and matriarch of the Wagner family.

497
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: The forty eight year old was arrested at their home

498
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: near Piked in Ohio. Go ahead, Angelo Wagner in car

499
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: one Cope thirteen thirty one. Angela and Billy's two sons,

500
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: George Wagner and Jake Wagner, were arrested together during a

501
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: traffic stop. George was twenty seven and Jake was twenty six.

502
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 1: Seventy six year old Fredrica Wagner, Billy Wagner's mother, was

503
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: arrested at the family's horse farm, The Flying w Angela,

504
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Wagner's mother, sixty five year old Rita Joe Newcomb, was

505
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: arrested at her home, while six members of the Wagner

506
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: family were arrested and action with the crime. Billy, Angela, George,

507
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner were charged with eight counts of aggravated murder.

508
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: Details about the arrests of four people and the murders

509
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: of eight members of the Rodent family. All the arrests

510
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: happened within minutes of each other, and that tells me

511
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: that the BCI, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification, who

512
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 1: was in charge of this investigation, they know what they're doing,

513
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 1: and they wanted to make sure that they affected these

514
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: arrests without any kind of problems or tipping anybody off,

515
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: So they hit that thing down pretty tight. Six months later,

516
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: four members of the Wagner family were indicted on charges

517
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: of aggravated murder with death penalty specification for the murders. Yesterday,

518
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: a Pike County grand jury and died four individuals for

519
00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: aggravated murder with death penalty, especially vacation for legilate committing

520
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: this heartless, ruthless, cold blood murder. Did they do it?

521
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: We want to know now, obviously everybody wants to know

522
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: right now. And man, if they're cooperating, as this attorney says,

523
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: they're giving over computers, a laptop, DNA, whatever it takes.

524
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: You know, people who aren't experts in criminology, we look

525
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: at that and go, well, man, that sounds like an

526
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: innocent person. An innocent person will be doing that. On

527
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: the other hand, there were the ballistics discoveries. Here's Bureau

528
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: of Criminal Investigation agent Ryan Scheiderer testifying in court that

529
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: shell casings found in the Wagner's property match the ones

530
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: found at the Rodent's crime scenes. We recovered twenty two

531
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: caliber shell cascenes. And where we recovered those which at

532
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: two sixty Peterson Road, which was a property that was

533
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: owned by George Wager and his brother Jake. And we're

534
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: those Shall casings submitted to the lab for comparison to

535
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: the Shall casings that had been recovered from both Frankie's

536
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: and Dana's residences. Yes, and what was the opinion of

537
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: the the weapon that fired the shell casings at two

538
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: sixty fee ercon Road also fired the shell casings at

539
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: Anna's and Dana's residence as well as Frankie and Hannah

540
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: Gillis residence. So the same firearm had been fired on

541
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: the same properties. Okay. So the exact same gun, not

542
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: just the same type of gun, the same firearms okay.

543
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: The indictment also includes a reference to a specific pair

544
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: of boots that the Wagner family purchased at Walmart and

545
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: allegedly war during the murders. The theory was that the

546
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: Wagners were trying to frame Dana Roden's brother, James Fanley,

547
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: who was known to add this make of boot. Sheriff

548
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 1: Frieder said the Wagner's plan these killings for months, studying

549
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: the rodents habits. He alleged that they then covered up

550
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: the killings, including stealing the Rodan security footage and tampering

551
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: with their phones. It seems a single minded cult like

552
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: obsession drew these murders. So we've talked about the Wagoners

553
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: and how insulated that family was, and you know, the

554
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: word cult has been thrown around in reference to the family.

555
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine a nuclear family of a mother

556
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 1: father and two adult sons who started doing reconnaissance on

557
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: the Rodent family, which by all accounts were as a

558
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: family that they were close with, friendly within some ways,

559
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: and months before the murders, allegedly the Wagners started to

560
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: track their comings and goings. And the question is why

561
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: would they do that? I mean, the only thing I

562
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: can think of is that Angela Wagner was this obsessed

563
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: mother who who not only wanted to control her son Jake,

564
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: but also all the people in his life. By all accounts,

565
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: it appears that the Rodens were being hunted by the

566
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: Wagner family, and that's unbelievable when you really put it

567
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: into context. The idea of a killer family sitting around

568
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: the kitchen table holding murder meetings is impossible to imagine.

569
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: What came into focus is that there was a raging

570
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: custody dispute between Jake Wagner and his former girlfriend, Hannah

571
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: may Roden over their three year old daughter that is

572
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: speculated as the real motive behind these murders. They would

573
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: travel back and forth between Hannah's mother's house and Jake's

574
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: family's house, and they would live as a family for

575
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: a few weeks at a time in each home and

576
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: for everyone who knew them, They said that the couple

577
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: was very happy. They were talking about marriage and building

578
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 1: a life together until seemingly in March of twenty fifteen,

579
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: they broke up, and that's when Hannah started dating a

580
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: new guy, a man named Charlie Gilly, and Jake was devastated.

581
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: Jake was pressuring Hannah to sign over full custody, something

582
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: she adamantly did not want to do so in the

583
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: summer of twenty fifteen, when Hannah wrote in announced that

584
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: she was pregnant with a new child, Jake Wagner was

585
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: adamant that he was the dad of this kid, and

586
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: he was desperate to prove it, so much so that

587
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: he went to the hospital when the baby was born

588
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: and checked for a Wagner family trait in the tow.

589
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: And we know that just days after Hannah was murdered,

590
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: the Wagner family filed for custody of not only Jake's

591
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: three year old daughter, but also the newborn baby. So

592
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: it's clear that this family had plans to raise both

593
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: children as their own. As you'll hear in season three,

594
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot more contexts to Jake's relationship with Hannah

595
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: and what his state of mind was around the murders

596
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: and before the murders in terms of moving on and

597
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: how he felt about her. The Wagners wanted custody over

598
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's child at all costs, but was that

599
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: possibly enough to justify a wholescale slaughter of another family.

600
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: It seemed Jake Wagner was highly distraught over having lost

601
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: hannahme Roden here is an anonymous Wagner source. He was

602
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: trying very hard to make sure that they got back together.

603
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: He still wanted to be with her. He was trying

604
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 1: to get get back with her, just everything that he could.

605
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: On top of the breakup, Hannah was also allegedly withholding

606
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: their daughter from Jake. There was a custody battle. Hannah

607
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: wasn't allowing Jake to see her or any of the

608
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: family to see her, and so it kind of just

609
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: got out of hand at that point. It just set

610
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: him off to the point where Jake, because he had

611
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: made the comments a couple of times, I mean, and

612
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: I had told a couple of people about them. I mean,

613
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: he had made the comments, you know, that he were

614
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: going to kill her, and he told her that, you know,

615
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm going to I'm gonna have to kill you.

616
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: Like you're not going You're not gonna let me see

617
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: the baby, then you know you're not gonna have her.

618
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Jake, you can't say these things. Please

619
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: just chill out. And of course, you know, nobody ever

620
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: really thinks like, oh my god, he's actually going to

621
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: He was just completely out of his mind. It really

622
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: really upset him. The Wagners had allegedly orchestrated another ruthless

623
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: custody battle once before. Jake's brother, George Wagner, had a

624
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: child with a woman named Tabitha, and when they split up,

625
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: Accusmaer George Wagner and his mother, Angela Wagner blocked Tabitha

626
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: from seeing her son. Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina Tabby, like

627
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: whenever she would try to reach out to George, like hey,

628
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: can I come visit my son? And Angela would get

629
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore,

630
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: would tell Tabbie like, oh, you might have gave Bertilin

631
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: beyond his real mother because I take care of them,

632
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: and all these just nasty things. At one point accused murderer,

633
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner even threatened Tabitha and ran out of town.

634
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: Here's court testimony about the incident. Eventually there was a

635
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: comment by Angela that she was going to kill Tabitha,

636
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 1: so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned.

637
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 1: And actually specifically she first hit on the property until

638
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: nightfall and then and drove to a gas station and

639
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: neither escape that way and never went back after that. Correct.

640
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 1: And yet the idea that the Wagners would resolve a

641
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: custody issue in such a ruthless fashion is confounding. I

642
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: don't think anybody would believe that a family could have

643
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: put together such a tactical hit on another family that

644
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: they had created life with. It's still too difficult to accept, it,

645
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: too hard to believe. Let's stop here for another break.

646
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: Before the killings, the Wagners were trying to coerce victim

647
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: hannahme Roden, into signing forged documents seating custody of her

648
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: daughter to Angela Wagner in the event of Hannah's death.

649
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,439
Speaker 1: The forged custody documents that have been discussed in this case.

650
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: They were declaration documents, and it was stated in Rita

651
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: Newcome's case because she was the one accused of charged

652
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: with forgery or obstruction. It said that it was declarations

653
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: for the children of Hannah Rodin, George the Fourth and

654
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: Jake And so basically these documents designated a guardian should

655
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: any of them die. And these documents had been signed

656
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: and notarized nineteen days before the murders, and it designated

657
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: the children go to Angela should any of them die.

658
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: That's just one of those puzzle pieces that I felt

659
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: like showed that Angela she may have been the driving

660
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: force here since she was the one that had the

661
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: Facebook message that's been referenced in court that showed that

662
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: Hannah said they'd have to kill me first before I

663
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: gave up my child, and she showed that message to Jake.

664
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: This paper says if Hannah is to meet her demise,

665
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: then Sophia should go to Jake. Correct. Okay, But if

666
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: Jai meets his demise, then his child goes to his mom, correct,

667
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: not to Hannah. Correct. Then, on April twenty first, twenty

668
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: twenty one, on the five year anniversary of the murder,

669
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: and in a case where nothing made sense, accused murderer

670
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner abruptly pled guilty to eight counts of aggravated murder, felony, conspiracy,

671
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 1: unlawful possession of a dangerous ordinance, and tampering with evidence.

672
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 1: The State of Ohio read as part of the guilty

673
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: plead not to seek the death penalty for him or

674
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: his father, mother, or older brother. Here's Stephanie speaking with

675
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: reporter James Pilcher. Is it possible that Jake could say

676
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: I was in a very controlling environment. My mother, Angela Wagner,

677
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: controlled us, My father was a bully and said I

678
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: had to do these things, and we were coerced into it.

679
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: Is there any value in that even? I mean, that's

680
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: entirely possible, and some of the reporting, that's what we've heard,

681
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 1: Lee cal The other thing I will say is that

682
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: maybe they're going after bigger game than Jake, and they

683
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: figured we'll cut this deal. Now, he'll give us what

684
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: we want and then we can go get the mom

685
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: and the dad. But clearly they were going after the

686
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,399
Speaker 1: people who plotted it. This was not Jake's idea, right

687
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: or at least not according to prosecutors. This was the

688
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: family coming together. That's what the prosecutors are after is

689
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: that okay? We get Jake to help us. We get

690
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: Jake to plead out shows that this really did happen.

691
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: Now we can go after the people who were actually

692
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: planned it. Jake, who admitted to shooting five of the

693
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: eight victims, agreed to cooperate with prosecutors and testify against

694
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: his family members. He knows he will die in prison.

695
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: Do you think Jake is lying about being personally responsible

696
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: for five of the eight? I don't know what his

697
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: incentive to lie about that is. I mean, is he

698
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: that afraid of the death penalty? The economics of that

699
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: equation just does not make sense to me. Where he

700
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: would openly confess to murdering five people. Probably the worst

701
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: act you could commit as a human is taking the

702
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: life of another, and he did that five times over.

703
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: I think we got a good idea of what happened here.

704
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: The charges against Frederica Wagner were dismissed. She maintained her

705
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: faith throughout the ordeal, even as her son accused murder

706
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: of Billy Wagner and his family were charged with horrible crimes.

707
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not

708
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: to your own understanding, In all your ways, acknowledge him

709
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: and he will direct her path. And as my attorney

710
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: will tell you, it was dismissed because I was innocent.

711
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: They had no evidence against me. I'd never lied about anything.

712
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: The investigation had a snag when Sheriff Freeder was arrested

713
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: on felony charges not related to the case. There had

714
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: been criticism about how Sheriff Frieder handled evidence in the

715
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: road massacre, but these new charges conflict of interest, theft

716
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: in office, and tampering with evidence stripped him of his

717
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: badge and office. I stand here before you today to

718
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: take accountability through my actions, to accept responsibility for my conduct,

719
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: I said Sheriff of Ohio. I should excuse me. Everything

720
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: that I'd worked for professionally, in honorably for twenty five

721
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: years was stripped to me, with nobody good playing but myself.

722
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 1: If I could go back can changed it, I would

723
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: a million times. This is not who I am. Never

724
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: ever did I imagine myself on the defense side of

725
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: this court route that I've spent twenty five years of

726
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: my life in this county in law enforcement. I am

727
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: a good person, made bad decisions and choices I have

728
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 1: and I'm out pray that the court will find mercy

729
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: on me. According to reports, Reader allegedly stole cash sees

730
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: from drug arress to fund a gambling problem. He even

731
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: blamed his gambling addiction on the stresses of investigating the

732
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: Rodan killings. You know, now he's blaming his gambling habits

733
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: on because what he's seen in the crime scenes have

734
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: haunted him so much he couldn't sleep, so he would

735
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: go gamble. One known Charlie for thirty years and he's

736
00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: been gambling way before this happened. And that's just to me,

737
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: shows you his character. No, I'm I'm going to use

738
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 1: the death of eight people to try to smooth over

739
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,720
Speaker 1: but I'm still a money off my county in gambling,

740
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: and that is disgusting to me. You're talking about a

741
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: guy who led the sheriff's office and who for a time,

742
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,800
Speaker 1: a moment in time when this first happened, these murders

743
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: first happened, who was also leading that investigation until the

744
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: state came in and took it over. You just sit

745
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: back and go, man, let's see where this end is.

746
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: I mean, Pike County has been a crazy ride so

747
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: ever since the end of April of twenty sixteen, It

748
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: has been an absolutely crazy half a decade there. But

749
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: despite Sheriffrid's downfall, the Wagners, Billy, George, Jake, and Angela

750
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 1: remain locked up. Jake's mother, Angela, father Billy, and brother

751
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: George await their fate as Jake prepares to testify against them.

752
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: The Wagners are facing three hundred and thirty two thousand

753
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: files of evidence from the prosecution. Will the Wagners remain

754
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: behind bars and what will Jake reveal about what happened

755
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: that harrowing night in April twenty sixteen. He's done. The

756
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: totality of information now known by the state, including the

757
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: fourth right statements of the defendant, We have overwhelming evidence

758
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: that the defendant and the three co defendant members of

759
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: his family foreign fact responsible for planning and carrying out

760
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: the homicide. Jay admitted it in the league evening hours

761
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 1: of April twenty first, twenty sixteen into the early morning

762
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: hours of Abl twenty seconds, twenty sixteen, is when they

763
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: admitted these homicides. You think about staring into the eyes

764
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 1: of your kin folks across the room as you're sitting

765
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: in the dock there and you're looking at them straight

766
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: in the eyes and people that you've spent Thanksgivings with Christmases.

767
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: You know these moments throughout your life, and you're looking

768
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: at them and you're potentially sending them to the proverbial

769
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: gallows virtue, What you're going to say, will we figure

770
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: out exactly what happened on the night of April twenty

771
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: first in Piketon? I want to know exactly what happened

772
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: that night? You know, how did they get in the homes?

773
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 1: We know the end, We've got some idea what happened

774
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: in the middle, But I think I want to know

775
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: about the beginning. You know, was this truly about custody?

776
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: You know? I would just like to know, you know

777
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: exactly why from Jake Wagner, When did the switch flip

778
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: to where the only resolution to whatever was going on

779
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 1: between him and the Rodents at that point was to

780
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: go and kill them all? It makes absolutely no sense.

781
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: And was Angelo the mastermind behind it all? I think

782
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: it was bil Angelo behind the scene, controlling I relearning

783
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: one in a little public after. What will happen in

784
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: the meantime is anyone's guess? Will there be another plea deal?

785
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see where this Case goes from

786
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: here the piked In Massacre. Who knows? You never know

787
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: where this is going next. This season, we have a

788
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 1: much fuller picture of who the Wagner family was prior

789
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 1: to this and how they became the monsters we now

790
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: know them to be. We've really started to learn more

791
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: about the Wagner family, not only the lives that they led,

792
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 1: but also their motivations for the crimes they allegedly committed.

793
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 1: Just when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker,

794
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: it has. All will be revealed on Season three of

795
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: The piked In Massacre. For more information in case photos,

796
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. This special

797
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: episode was produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Greeves,

798
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 1: Alan Wheeter, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design

799
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: by Jeff Ta, music by Jared Aston, Audio mixing by

800
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Pikedon Massacre is a production of Katie

801
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

802
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

803
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 1: favorite shows.