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Speaker 1: I welcome to episode eighty four of The Bobby Cast

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Speaker 1: and Buzzby's here, which the first I heard from you

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Speaker 1: is Buddies with Keith Urban. That was the first I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard of like you in the way of like wow,

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Speaker 1: because when Keith Urban says something, I'm like, let me listen,

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Speaker 1: because one, he's really kind, but when Keith Urban talks musically,

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Speaker 1: like I should listen because Keith Urban probably the smartest

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Speaker 1: guy to him musically, he's deep man, so deep, like

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Speaker 1: I've seen him take songs and just take it to

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Speaker 1: like have friends were gonna cut songs and Keith will

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Speaker 1: We'll go in the studio with them and go my

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Speaker 1: friends think they're good and they're like, oh yeah, I'm terrible,

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Speaker 1: Like I used to think I was good until Urban

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Speaker 1: came in. So that's the first I'd heard of you

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Speaker 1: when you did some tracks on Rip Chord with with

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Speaker 1: Keith But and I was like, Buzzby, that's is that

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Speaker 1: like buzz Buzzby like a b but it's really your

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Speaker 1: last name. It was brutal growing up with that name.

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Speaker 1: But would they do the Buzzby thing Buzzby bugs, buzz

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Speaker 1: but all that stuff, but your name is Mike Buzzby.

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Speaker 1: So is that an artist where you like just coming

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Speaker 1: busby or is that just coming? But buddy of mine

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Speaker 1: suggests I just go by that professionally, A lot of

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Speaker 1: people would just call me Buzby. You know, I'd introduced myself, Hey,

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Speaker 1: Mike Buzby, nice to meet you, and everyone would just

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Speaker 1: forget the Mike and just call me Buzby. So I

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Speaker 1: just kept going by Busby. And I have a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about with you, because as I've been researching,

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Speaker 1: I've become a bigger and bigger fan. And also I

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Speaker 1: have friends that now that have worked you, like Marin.

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Speaker 1: I took Carle out with me on tour stand up,

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Speaker 1: so I have you and I have a lot of

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Speaker 1: similar friendships and um. But as I started to look

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Speaker 1: you up a bit and like go deep into it,

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Speaker 1: and especially with the instruments in the jazz background, like

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Speaker 1: I want to get into all that, but I would

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Speaker 1: like to start with something that just makes people go.

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Speaker 1: And I want to play this demo because you wrote

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Speaker 1: holy yeah, and this is you singing unholy yeah. No

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Speaker 1: I didn't sing that one is singing. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I was like that whose Nate by the way,

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Speaker 1: Nate Sifer, who I wrote it with, Okay, so, but

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Speaker 1: you wrote it this is Nate singing? Yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound like you when you started talking, I'd talk

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Speaker 1: like this when I sing. I guess you wrote Holy.

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Speaker 1: You're not singing the demo. Okay, this is the demo.

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Speaker 1: I've often said there have been about two songs this

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Speaker 1: year that I think have been really screwed by country radio.

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Speaker 1: One of them was Holy, and one of them was

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Speaker 1: Body Like a Back Road. Because they were so popular,

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Speaker 1: people wouldn't let them stay popular. And I thought Florida, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Line and Sam both got screwed in the factory that

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Speaker 1: is country radio and making number one. Get rid of it.

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Speaker 1: And I thought this song should have been another one

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Speaker 1: for on the radio chart for five, six, seven weeks.

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Speaker 1: It was that big of a song. Did you feel

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Speaker 1: the same way. I mean, as a writer, you hope

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Speaker 1: something like that would happen then, but you write a

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Speaker 1: lot of you have a lot of hits. Did you

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Speaker 1: feel different about this one? Yeah? No, it felt it

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Speaker 1: felt very impactful and and um, it's interesting. The tricky

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Speaker 1: thing is, um it just went up really quick too,

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Speaker 1: because of the momentum of them and then how big

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Speaker 1: it was. So it was very impactful, but it kind

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Speaker 1: of like came and then went, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: and too quickly. Yeah, it has a life after that,

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Speaker 1: like because of the type of song it is and

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Speaker 1: the artists that they are. But yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think it should have been four or five weeks at least.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think that it's killing the the culture of

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Speaker 1: country music? And in fact, the songs come and go

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Speaker 1: so fast that when we were kids, songs in general,

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Speaker 1: because well you use country as the format, they would

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Speaker 1: last for eight nine weeks and they became anthems. And

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Speaker 1: we think of our life because of these songs that

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Speaker 1: we remember where we were and now songs number one

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Speaker 1: throom was gone. No, absolutely, I mean it seems like

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Speaker 1: the disconnects. I mean, to be extreme about a buddy

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Speaker 1: who is my mentor told me back in the day,

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Speaker 1: the d js would show up at their record collection

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Speaker 1: and that's what you play, right and now obviously, and

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Speaker 1: you you're one of the d js who seems to

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Speaker 1: play a lot of what you play. I remember driving

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Speaker 1: probably a year and a half ago and hearing you

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Speaker 1: play Marin early on and going, oh my gosh, you know,

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Speaker 1: like before it was really catching, you were like really

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Speaker 1: playing that and thank you man, you've been such a

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Speaker 1: supporter of artists early on. But it's a machine, and

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Speaker 1: I understand, I understand both sides of it, understand how

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Speaker 1: it sort of needs to be in this modern time,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily allow for the context of a

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Speaker 1: the DJ helping decide those things sometimes, and then more

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Speaker 1: important than truly is the fans fan response, and if

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Speaker 1: the fans responding, let it go. You know, I agree

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Speaker 1: so much. To me. The weird thing is is that

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Speaker 1: a song can be number one and then the next

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Speaker 1: day everybody starts to going. The song doesn't go from

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Speaker 1: being awesome to sucking in twelve hours, No, it just

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Speaker 1: gets dropped off all of the playlists and so and

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Speaker 1: because of that, I think inevitably it just we're not

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Speaker 1: in ten years going to have and again we're never

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Speaker 1: inteners gonna have the same we've ever in the history

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Speaker 1: of the world. Two years is never the same, Yeah, totally,

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Speaker 1: it's never the same. But I think the songs that

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Speaker 1: just remind like we had songs like I came hearing

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Speaker 1: Indian Outlaw on the radio I remember hearing it smells

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Speaker 1: like teen Spirit on the radio. I know, I feel

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Speaker 1: myself and know where they were. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: that's going to happen anymore. It's it's it's a similar

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Speaker 1: thought if you want to go all the way back

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Speaker 1: to like there will never be another Beatles, in part

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Speaker 1: for many reasons, but in part that we live in

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Speaker 1: a different world. Like part of what made the Beatles

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Speaker 1: the Beatles, besides the talent was it was there was

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Speaker 1: a mystery. You know, you couldn't just get on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and go look at what Paul was doing this morning.

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Speaker 1: You know, I could, I could be I didn't, but

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Speaker 1: I could be on your Instagram and what was Bobby

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Speaker 1: doing today and see that in vice versa and whatever.

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Speaker 1: There's no mystery. And even though you got you and

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Speaker 1: I are just meeting for the first time, some of

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Speaker 1: it feels like we already know each other because of

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Speaker 1: the friendships, but also social media and life and the

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Speaker 1: overlap and the modernity as it were back then, there

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Speaker 1: was just everything was like I heard, I think that maybe.

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Speaker 1: And so when the Beatles landed, man, it was like

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Speaker 1: literally when they landed, people were there in mass freaking

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Speaker 1: out because they didn't know what was going on, they

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Speaker 1: didn't really know what they look like in person. They

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Speaker 1: wanted to go see it and feel it, you know.

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Speaker 1: So that kind of excitement is just you can't recreate it.

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Speaker 1: I think options also create that. Listen, there were three

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Speaker 1: TV channels, and you're on one of the three TV

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Speaker 1: channels you have at worst, you know, twenty five percent

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Speaker 1: of the audience period, where we have five hundred channels

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Speaker 1: now totally. I mean we're looking at just as an

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Speaker 1: example that a TV network came to me say hey,

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Speaker 1: I want you to do this show, like, hey, you

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Speaker 1: should come to the show, and I was like, this

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Speaker 1: show doesn't feel right. I didn't want to this particular

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Speaker 1: TV show and they were like, we don't understand. Like

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Speaker 1: you do this show and you have two d and

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand people watching, and I was like, guys, not

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Speaker 1: to be a dick, but I have three million people

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Speaker 1: that listen to my show live and another three million

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Speaker 1: that listen on podcast digitally every day. And back in

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Speaker 1: the day it was ten times that totally like we're

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Speaker 1: all losing are It's it's it's such a world of fly,

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Speaker 1: like an interstate in cars driving By and like do

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Speaker 1: you like the right Bye by? Right car? Totally get

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Speaker 1: to like it while it was there. Yeah, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: a maunt of turnover rate for everything just seems a

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Speaker 1: lot quicker. And that's um. You know, it's not just

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Speaker 1: the business and marketing conversation, as you know, it's also

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Speaker 1: a creative conversation. Do you think it's killing art? Do

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Speaker 1: you think it's killing art? Or is it making it better?

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Speaker 1: Because I do see arguing on both sides. I'm asking

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Speaker 1: you do you think I think I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: cop out. I think it's a bit of both. Like

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Speaker 1: it depends on you know, everything evolves, right, so art

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Speaker 1: has to evolve and it has to be able to

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Speaker 1: function in that new society. I mean it's like, did

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Speaker 1: the computer kill art? Music making? I don't know. It

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Speaker 1: depends if you're a tape machine purist. I love the

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Speaker 1: sound of a great tape machine record, but I also

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Speaker 1: love the things that I can do in a computer

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Speaker 1: and manipulate something. Do you ever see Jim Morrison talk

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Speaker 1: about the computer? You ever see the It was probably seventies,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously before he died, uh, and he was

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Speaker 1: doing an interview and he was like, you know what

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Speaker 1: the future and it blew me away, like, you know

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Speaker 1: what the future music is? I think you're talking about

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Speaker 1: in the seventies. And he's by the way, for those listening,

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Speaker 1: Jim Morris lakes into the doors verily. He died, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: ear like um, and he was like, it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: it's computers in the seventies. He was saying this, and

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Speaker 1: he was probably more spot on than he could have

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Speaker 1: ever imagined, because, as you well know, there's a sector

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Speaker 1: of music that is almost specific. Everything is the computer.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's not like country music typically involves live

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Speaker 1: instrumentation still and it's becoming more prevalent again in pop,

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Speaker 1: but with a lot of dance music, it's like everything

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Speaker 1: is literally in the computer. And to me, that's not

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Speaker 1: a better or worser, it's just a different way of

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Speaker 1: doing it. It's like, do you can you still be

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Speaker 1: creative within those confines? You know? So where we would

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Speaker 1: have songs predict what these thirteen year olds will have,

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Speaker 1: what will they'd be able to look at in the

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Speaker 1: art world and go, you know, this really reminds their

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Speaker 1: snapchat story. Well, that's the interesting thing about it, that

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Speaker 1: that that train of thought. Even though it's logical and

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Speaker 1: I get it. It goes to the thing of where

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Speaker 1: people literally thought we'd be flying in cars right now,

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Speaker 1: you know, when conceptually it's possible we could go buy

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Speaker 1: a hundred fifty allar car that flies right, But it's

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Speaker 1: not the it's not commonplace. So even though technology is

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Speaker 1: evolving really quickly, there's still what people want to accept

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Speaker 1: as normal formats is moving way less quickly. So songs

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Speaker 1: will exist, I think forever they really will. What what

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Speaker 1: kind of songs? How what length of time is acceptable?

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Speaker 1: You know when they when they go shorter, is it

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Speaker 1: gonna be two minutes? And they're already going shorter? Are

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Speaker 1: they telling you? Is it? Because again, I'm lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to be in the high level race. I get to

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Speaker 1: see research. I you know, I what happens is what

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Speaker 1: music is. We'll take it, and I say, we don't

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Speaker 1: pay more, but I get to see the results of it.

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Speaker 1: We'll take it and have thousands of people listen to

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Speaker 1: these songs and write them songs around the radio, songs

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Speaker 1: they haven't heard. And you get scores from m scores too.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's sometimes you overdad. It yourself, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen some really great songs not be scored highly,

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Speaker 1: not in the opposite, but it's data and what we're

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Speaker 1: sing is that people get bored with anything over about

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Speaker 1: three minutes and twenty seconds. Totally. Yeah, I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was pointed out to me that they're speeding things up,

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Speaker 1: you know, and not only are they shorting, but they're

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Speaker 1: speeding them up. Meaning they'll take a song and I'm

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Speaker 1: totally doing industry secrets here, but they'll take it and

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Speaker 1: speed up three percent, so the song even moves faster.

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Speaker 1: And if you ever hear a song on the radio,

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Speaker 1: you're like, and then you play it back, you know,

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Speaker 1: on your computer, and you're like, but does it seems

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Speaker 1: a little slower. It's because radio plays them a little

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Speaker 1: faster and they want them shorter. Yeah, it's interesting. Man

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Speaker 1: is a writer. I mean, I still write stuff that

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Speaker 1: I feel right that that hopefully as without saying that

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Speaker 1: it is truly the case. But I'm also I have

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Speaker 1: a um I like business, I have an inclination towards

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Speaker 1: it and and it's there to me, those aren't necessarily

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Speaker 1: at odds, and so I've had this understanding of the

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Speaker 1: reality that in a business sense. As songwriters, we're selling

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Speaker 1: ads on radio station we are with and so is

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Speaker 1: your morning show in this sense of like they want

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Speaker 1: to either hear you and then hear the ad and

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Speaker 1: come back to hear you, or they're gonna hear a

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Speaker 1: song and we're gonna keep them on there so they

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Speaker 1: can ultimately hear the ad. And I'm okay with that.

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Speaker 1: It is what it is. I've chosen to be in

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Speaker 1: the billboard business, not Billboard magazine, but selling billboards, right,

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Speaker 1: I did not choose to be in the I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to paint them Mona Lisa and not not degrading

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Speaker 1: our art. I think you can make amazing art in

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Speaker 1: that context. But it's just a different thing. It's like

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Speaker 1: we're not we're not just sitting on our bedrooms writing songs,

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Speaker 1: because we're writing exactly what we want to say and

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Speaker 1: maybe someone will listen to it once. We're trying to write,

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Speaker 1: to write stuff that means something to us and it

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Speaker 1: makes us feel stuff, but that will reach the masses.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the format that's that we're allowed, is

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Speaker 1: to be able to put it on radio or to

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Speaker 1: put it in Spotify, and we're basically either selling a

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Speaker 1: scription subscription of Spotify or or keeping someone on the

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Speaker 1: radio station so that they listen to the ad. And

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Speaker 1: it's of course needed because you've got to have the

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Speaker 1: money to do the thing. And I'm okay with that.

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Speaker 1: It's just a funny thing when you think about it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can agree a songwriter that right now

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Speaker 1: it's kind of the wild West and you guys are

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Speaker 1: not getting paid what you should be getting with streaming

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Speaker 1: services because it's it's it's very complex situation and very

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Speaker 1: for training, truly, and I've been constantly trying to be

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Speaker 1: engaged as much as I can different different ways. And

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Speaker 1: I had an interesting conversation with someone the other day

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Speaker 1: who represents a very well known established old school producer

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Speaker 1: in l A. And they both had invested in Spotify,

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Speaker 1: and um, we were talking about some of that stuff

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Speaker 1: and it was like, you know, I don't fault Spotify specifically,

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Speaker 1: like if I was gonna fault anybody. More than anything,

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Speaker 1: it's it's truly the legislation that we let the government

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Speaker 1: putting the legislation on us as writers that we have.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're literally imagine going, hey, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: can you come to a show in New York and

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Speaker 1: you sign a new contract or whatever it is, and

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Speaker 1: they go, you want to charge X amount of dollars,

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Speaker 1: but the government says, no, you can only charge a

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Speaker 1: quarter of that that we're going to regulate that right

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Speaker 1: because we think DJs make too much or it's a

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Speaker 1: monopoly or whatever it is. No, when you go do

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Speaker 1: a show, if you're playing with your band or anything,

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Speaker 1: you negotiate your rate or whatever that is. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, it's it's it's fair market. I can't do that.

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Speaker 1: As a writer with two thirds of my income one

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Speaker 1: part of it I can to sink. When you get

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Speaker 1: something placed on film and TV, we go, we'll negotiate

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Speaker 1: that rate. And and they've also through that process realized

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Speaker 1: that half of it should be for the records, half

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Speaker 1: of it should be for the song. Right, So if

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Speaker 1: someone gives you a ten tholl placement to have your

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Speaker 1: song on some movie or something, half of it goes

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Speaker 1: to the recorded side, half goes to the song. But

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Speaker 1: when it comes to mechanical rates, when it comes to performance,

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Speaker 1: all of that is dictated. It's very complexly so, but

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Speaker 1: dictated by different legislations that effectively does not allow me

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Speaker 1: to go here, here's this water. I want to sell

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Speaker 1: it to you for a hundred dollars and you go,

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Speaker 1: I'm not paying a hundred dollars. I'll pay ten and

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Speaker 1: I go twenty, you go fifteen. Okay, cool, we can't

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Speaker 1: do it. That's the main issue to me. And you know,

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Speaker 1: some people want to get mad at Spotify, some people

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Speaker 1: want to get mad at Pendor or whatever. I think.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the future. And I think spotifyes and

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Speaker 1: Pandoras and apples are actually in large trying to do

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Speaker 1: the best they can for the most part um but

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Speaker 1: we aren't even allowed to come to the table and

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Speaker 1: negotiate fairly for what we want to be represented by financially.

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Speaker 1: The weird part of it is too is again I'm

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Speaker 1: with you. I don't think the Spotify's apples are doing

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Speaker 1: anything wrong. They're not breaking any laws because there are

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Speaker 1: no laws. Well, the only laws are the ones that

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Speaker 1: we keep us, you know, from negotiating toes. When I

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Speaker 1: say no laws, there are no current there's there's no

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Speaker 1: law reflective as to what's happening right now with the

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Speaker 1: back I'll give you an example who came in and um,

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Speaker 1: she stanging background. I love her as a writer. I

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Speaker 1: she she told me that she when when she Spotify

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Speaker 1: she sings, she sings backing tracks, she gets paid more

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Speaker 1: than what she writes the songs Jesse Alexander. She was like,

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Speaker 1: I get paid more for her. And she's had millions

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Speaker 1: and millions of streams The Client from Miley, I Drove

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Speaker 1: your Truck from Lee Bryce. She's like, I get paid

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Speaker 1: more to sting background vocals than the stream. But the

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Speaker 1: laws are antiquated, they're they're so old. And when I

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Speaker 1: say no laws, why what's beeping by the way to

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Speaker 1: blow up? I was at the chair. I'll try to

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Speaker 1: sit still. No, no, no, there's like a beat. There's

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Speaker 1: like a bomb or something about that house. Uh let me.

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Speaker 1: My point was, I thought, holy got screwed. Back to

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. I really think that you know in

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Speaker 1: this song, and you know here in the story with

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Speaker 1: a song, and you can set the record straight. Stid

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Speaker 1: someone because biber passed had it and you thought he

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Speaker 1: was gonna cut it. But was there someone before biber No.

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Speaker 1: Almost simultaneously, Bieber was interested in it and we did

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Speaker 1: a deal for the song, like as producers because I

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Speaker 1: co produced that demo that effectively was going to be

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Speaker 1: the master. And then there was another artist who I

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Speaker 1: don't want to specify who it was. You probably wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: It was a new artist, so it's not a thing

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Speaker 1: that's out there. No, not at all. And I'm only

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Speaker 1: not specifying because I want to be cool to him.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong, but like you know, he was an

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Speaker 1: artist who um was on a TV show and got

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Speaker 1: signed by a prominent record person UM and that person

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Speaker 1: did a really aggressive deal to try to sway us

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Speaker 1: from giving it to Beaver, which we still we we

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Speaker 1: agreed to the terms that we said, but we're still

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Speaker 1: not giving it to you until we know what's up

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Speaker 1: with Beaver. Because of course that would have been of

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Speaker 1: the options we had. That was the best option just

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Speaker 1: business wise, and Biber wanna passing on until we cut

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Speaker 1: it on that other artist, so and they paid us

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Speaker 1: as producer, so it was already locked in. We couldn't

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Speaker 1: just go and say hey, we want our song back

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Speaker 1: in a in a normal situation. And um, about a

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Speaker 1: month before we had been told it was going to

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Speaker 1: be released, my publisher, Sarah from BMG, hits me up

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Speaker 1: and goes, hey, what's going on with that song. Holy,

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Speaker 1: I think it's what f GL is looking for. And

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Speaker 1: my head was like, like, because I wrote it with Nate,

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Speaker 1: who at the time hadn't written anything in Nashville to

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Speaker 1: my knowledge, pop writer, this guy Will Larson, who's pop producer,

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Speaker 1: like total in l a thinking for a pop pitch,

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Speaker 1: that whole thing, and the fact that they resonated like

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Speaker 1: like they did. So I had to call seth up

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Speaker 1: their manager and just be man, these are some of

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Speaker 1: the business complications we're facing and I'm not sure what's

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Speaker 1: going on with this artist, but I can't necessarily easily

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Speaker 1: get the song, but of course would love you guys

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Speaker 1: to cut it. So we we discussed it, and then

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Speaker 1: we went back to the label and said, Yo, you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna release the song. You're gonna drop this artist art.

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Speaker 1: Can we have a song back? And they basically just

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Speaker 1: gave us a song back. Is it almost said he

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Speaker 1: got dropped not because of that, but he was planning

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Speaker 1: to get dropped? Is it almost a thing where and

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Speaker 1: maybe it's not where if you say, hey, we'd like

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Speaker 1: to have this song back, do they kind of feel like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can have a song, but you o s one.

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Speaker 1: Is that ever a thing, even if it's not stated,

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Speaker 1: I would think so, depending on the person it's It's

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Speaker 1: a little more complicated in this case because they paid

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Speaker 1: us a lot of money as the producers on a

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Speaker 1: particular check because of how how badly they wanted a song.

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Speaker 1: And it's in the pop world is a bit more

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Speaker 1: wild West with all that stuff. You know. It's like

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Speaker 1: how much you charge as the producer is whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: you can get basically, and it can it can be

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Speaker 1: large numbers, and it depends on how much somebody wants

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Speaker 1: a song and if someone else wants it and so

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Speaker 1: literally yeah, and and this particular label person who wrote

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Speaker 1: the check for the second artist, he um, he's known

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Speaker 1: for liking to write checks like and if he really

394
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Speaker 1: want something to help put his money where his mouth is.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't even a step further, which this is just

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a behind the scenes into that world.

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Speaker 1: So we did something called um a kill fee. Uh

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Speaker 1: it's not even an advance, but it was like, if

399
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Speaker 1: it's not released as the first single by such and

400
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Speaker 1: such a date, you have to give us another check

401
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Speaker 1: that was actually overdouble of what the producer fee was

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Speaker 1: and it just guaranteed that we would actually have the

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Speaker 1: first single, because if we were going to give it

404
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Speaker 1: to this artist who was a new artist who had

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Speaker 1: no track record, which we we'd love for him to

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Speaker 1: have a hit with it, because a hit would be

407
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Speaker 1: a hit, but it was a bigger risk for us.

408
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Speaker 1: So their commitment was demonstrated to do that thing. So

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Speaker 1: they had already paid us as producers and the kill

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Speaker 1: fee was coming up in a few weeks, and that's

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Speaker 1: when I called Seth and I explained the whole situation.

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Speaker 1: He's like, dude, we can't do a kill fee. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, man, I know how Nashville works

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Speaker 1: and it's a totally different way how I work here. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, can you can it be

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Speaker 1: a single? He's like, I can't guarantee it, but it

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Speaker 1: probably will be. We're gonna go five deep and you

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Speaker 1: know it's a great song or whatever. It hits me

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Speaker 1: a month later, he's like, it's the first single, here's

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Speaker 1: the video, and we're like whoa and the rest of

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Speaker 1: his history. I mean, it was literally like ju ju ju.

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Speaker 1: Is there a bit of you? Though? When Beaver passes

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Speaker 1: on it, because that's a money making machine, I mean

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Speaker 1: crazy money make where you're like more than a bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, quite frankly, it's you know, and for me

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Speaker 1: it's you know, I I have a family to feed,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I've been very, very fortunate to have

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Speaker 1: hits and a career and all those things. But every

429
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: one of our situations is that it's like, you know,

430
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 1: even if you get the beaver cut, will it be

431
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: a single? You know, if, of course, right now it

432
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: will be a hit, But there was a time where

433
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: it was like he's a big artist, but will it

434
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 1: be a hit at radio? You know? Or this new

435
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 1: kid who caught it, Like we have the single, but

436
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: is he gonna break through? And all of those things

437
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: are just this emotional roller coaster because not only do

438
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 1: you write the song with all this emotion and then

439
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 1: send it out into the world, but when that starts,

440
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 1: stuff starts playing out. Man, it's just like because first

441
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 1: it is Bieber wants it. I mean it was it

442
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 1: was Bieber wanted it so much quote unquote, meaning that

443
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 1: was so legitimately happening that I remember being out there.

444
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: I was in Nashville at the time. They're like, can

445
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 1: you fly back immediately? We want to cut his vocal tomorrow.

446
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 1: I supposed to go to Rick Rubin's house and cut

447
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 1: the vocal with Rick on Bieber, and then that literally

448
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: last minute the night before didn't happen, with no explanation

449
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: other than he'll cut it in a couple of weeks

450
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: and whatever. Oh, and then when that starts to happen,

451
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,200
Speaker 1: you just honestly, you never know because that could only happen,

452
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: and then it could be. That's the weirdest part about

453
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: what we do. It's like, you can't you can't get

454
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: too attached to all those things. I've had songs that

455
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: literally I was told would not even be on the album,

456
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: then made the album and I was told, well, they

457
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: won't be a single, and then they were a second single.

458
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: Like my first hit was that two Questions, and I

459
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: want to forget other one of the first Reuben. But

460
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: I want to go to the talk about album cuts.

461
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: So we'll talk to writers, say, hey, you know, I

462
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,479
Speaker 1: get album cut, Yeah, you know much money? Maybe if

463
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: they get album cut, they'll play some of their guarantee

464
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: back exactly, And then the pop world is it different

465
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: if you get album cut? Is there more money in

466
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: the pop world or does it. Basically, it depends who

467
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: it is. I mean, it's it's all obviously based on sales,

468
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,719
Speaker 1: and so worldwide artist like Bieber. That's that's the main

469
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: difference is these artists can be worldwide. And so even

470
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: if you quote unquote only sell a million records in

471
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: the US, you can catch another one to three worldwide

472
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: sometimes and that's that's pretty pretty rad. So it's basically

473
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: you can sell worldwide as an album cut what a

474
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: single would sell in the country genre. It would be

475
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: hard to get that far because basically it's it's for

476
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 1: every song. It's a complex conversation because a lot of popcuts.

477
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: There's very few popcuts that are even three writers. So

478
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: let's let's assume it's a popcut that's two writers. Just

479
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 1: for be conservative. Every song is worth about let's say

480
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: nineties nine cents per album, So every million records is

481
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,120
Speaker 1: ninety dollars for mechanicals roughly, right, And then of course

482
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: in that is your publisher and everybody. So most of

483
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: that money goes back to to recoup your draw which

484
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: you said, so if you if you so, if you

485
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: have half of that's forty five, and then if you

486
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: have four million that's gonna be a hundred and eighty

487
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, and then a country hit three way would

488
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: be maybe three something about a million all told, Right,

489
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: So it's mechanicals are but it does pay more to

490
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: get a cut and it does make sit I never

491
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: thought about the worldwide Yes, the worldwide thing. That's the

492
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 1: big difference between pop and country. Wow, very little worldwide

493
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,159
Speaker 1: with um with what country is doing right now, But

494
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: that's changing and I'm stoked about it. We're talking about

495
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 1: express pros for a second. For just one corporate job,

496
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 1: only four to six people will get interviewed for every

497
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: twinter and fifty resumes, So I can think about that

498
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: they get resumes, they're only picking like four to six

499
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: to even talk to. That's not good odds. So if

500
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: you're counting on getting a job when you're uploading your resume,

501
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't because, again, not good odds. The fact

502
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: that you need a real person talking to a real

503
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: employer that has a real job, and that's where Express

504
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: employment professionals come in. Express is your local resource to

505
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 1: help you get a new job. So they have more

506
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: than eighteen thousand jobs available weekly. That's eighteen thous and

507
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,800
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508
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: fell right now. They have jobs. Find the nearest office

509
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: at Express pros dot com and Express never charges a

510
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: job secret to find employment so you're locally owned. Express

511
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,160
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512
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: Express pros dot com, manufacturing jobs, accounting jobs, customer service,

513
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: information technology, you name it. Visit the nearest Express office today,

514
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: speak with hiring professionals that can connect you to a

515
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: job in your community. Express pros dot com to find

516
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: a location near you. All right, I mentioned Rick Rubin,

517
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 1: who will go down in history is one of the

518
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: greatest of all time of everything from you know, for me,

519
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: like the Beastie Boys, like that's my music, like my

520
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: license to ill. When I discovered that, it opened my

521
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 1: eyes to Wow, you can look and sound and all

522
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: this is certainly none of it has to match anymore?

523
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: Does that opened my eyes to anybody can do anything musically? Um,

524
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: have you spent I'm with Rick Rubin? Do you know

525
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: Rick Ruben? You talk about going to his house. Have

526
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: you ever met Rick Rubin? I have not. Um, I

527
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: was excited about that. When you said that, I was like,

528
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: holy crap, Just yeah, I mean even I mean he's

529
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 1: done from you know, Rick Rick, he's getting skinny. He

530
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: has absolutely vegan now right. Well, the funny part not funny,

531
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: part of the interesting part was when he was heavy,

532
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: he was if he's still a vegan, but he actually

533
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: is gave that up and I think he's probably still

534
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: has a lot of edgies, but introduced meat into his diet. Well,

535
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: I don't know what the correlations how it works with

536
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: me when I don't well, he I mean the other

537
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: interesting thing about him, as you know, also not only

538
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: a wildly successful record producer, but like the label side,

539
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, I mean, come on the deaf

540
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: jam really and then American. He's one of the guys

541
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: that if if you're listening to this and you just

542
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Wikipedia Rick Rubin and you look at him, by the way,

543
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: so when you look at and you go, oh, for sure,

544
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: this dude's death metal, but then you look at everything

545
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: that he been able to do in all formats and

546
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: all genres. I would recommend people listen this to just

547
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: a Wikipedia Rick group and look at what he's done

548
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: in his catalog. There's an interesting aside to me, which

549
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: is that, um, some some people who want to be critical.

550
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 1: We'll talk about how like he's not always in the studio,

551
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: or he's not like a hands on producer or whatever,

552
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 1: And to me, there's just different ways of making records

553
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: and different ways of making music. But what he is

554
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: that is such an important thing in my opinion and

555
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: something that we should all strive to be, is he's

556
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: a fan of music. Like he's from what I understand,

557
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: he's a basically a professional fan of music because he's

558
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: not a self proclaimed musician. He's not a recording engineer,

559
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: none of that sort of technical stuff or whatever. He's

560
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: somebody who listens to music and knows how to communicate

561
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: to artists based upon what his He's a curator basically

562
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: and like a professional fan. But he's turned that into

563
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: a career as a record guy and as a producer.

564
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: It's incredible. It's inspiring in that regard. I want to play.

565
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot here. I don't know where to start,

566
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: but why don't we do this one? I'm talking about

567
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: Keith a minute ago. So here's the fire. Yeah, I'm

568
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: talking about this on our second It was we wrote

569
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: this in London actually, because Keith was living over there

570
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: for a little bit. Um, I think the coals on

571
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: a uh play. And so the family was over there

572
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: and he was like, hey, you want to come over

573
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: to London and right, and I was like, heck yeah,

574
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: so we go. Does he pay for all your trip?

575
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: If he say yeah, yeah, he did absolutely. I Mean

576
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where I would I

577
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: would have done it either way. But like he's just

578
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: like he's the best man. He's just he's such a

579
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: thoughtful and gracious person, you know. But yeah, we went

580
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: over there, and um, we hold up at this this studio,

581
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: Martin Trefe Studio. It's his scorge. It's like on the

582
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: fourth floor of this kind of like old school English

583
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: industrial complex from probably a hundred fifty years ago. It's

584
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: this massive a frame in these huge windows. It's not

585
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: even really sound proof. You can hear cars riding by

586
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: and stuff. And the second day he comes in, he'd

587
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: been working out in the morning. He comes in and

588
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: he goes, I have this idea for it, and he

589
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: he starts singing and he's showing me that a couple

590
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: of parts, and within like ten minutes were like I've

591
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: learned the parts we've talked about, and we're kind of

592
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: like sort of singing it to each other. I was

593
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: singing Carry's part, you know, and I was like, oh wow,

594
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: this was great. And then we just started building a

595
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: track and it wasn't really talked about, but I think

596
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: our mutual um fascination with the new radicals really influenced that.

597
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: You know, the way that sounds and yeah, yeah, and uh,

598
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: and it just that song happened in just a few

599
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: hours literally, and then we did a little bit of

600
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: stuff after the fact, and then um, once he locked

601
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: in on having Carry do it, it was like, well,

602
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: how where where are we gonna get the vocal done?

603
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: How's that's going to happen? And she had a day off,

604
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: she was on tour, she had a day off in St. Louis,

605
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: So I flew out there with my engineer and he

606
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: was actually Keith was actually cutting a video to Wasted

607
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: Time in l A at the time, so he faced

608
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: time in. It was like this whole technology being our

609
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 1: friend again, you know, and she just nailed him and

610
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: she's singing like thirty minutes, you know. It was the

611
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: whole thing was pretty effortless, which not every song is

612
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: like that and doesn't mean it's better or worser. It's

613
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: just I feel like those are the gifts when when

614
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: it's not only seemingly as a quality song, but one

615
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: that people are responding to, and then the process wasn't

616
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: a huge rigg and role, But then most days it's

617
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: a big rigg and roll a guy like Keith Who.

618
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: It's so advanced music like, but it got like you who. Yeah,

619
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: I assume you sort of playing the piano as a

620
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: young young kid. You know, you went to school on

621
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: a jazz scholarship. Uh, one of the trumpeter trombo tra

622
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: trombone what are you like, declared greatest in the world

623
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 1: at I don't know about that. There there is an

624
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: award college age Jazz Tramone Award which that sent it

625
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: a loan. Is it's a pretty small demographic, but it's

626
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: still again, data is still data. It is true data,

627
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: but it by definition of what it is it basically

628
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: it's like it's available to all college age jazz ramone

629
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: players in the world and you apply in your audition

630
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: and I won. That award is the Frank Rosalna Memorial Scholarship,

631
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: which to your point is the greatest trombone player in

632
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: the world of that age. I guess there's not dot dot,

633
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: but I was, well. The only reason I actually feel

634
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about that in any with any candoras because

635
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: it's not really what I'm doing anymore, but it's also

636
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: just to demonstrate like how serious I was about it.

637
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: This wasn't like I kind of played trombone in high school.

638
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: Like all the way up until I was about twenty one,

639
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: maybe twenty two, all I listened to is jazz, like

640
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't. Everything else was peripheral, Like my sister was

641
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: listening to hair metal, my dad was listening to some

642
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: like some old country and black gospel and oldies, and

643
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: my mom was listening to like hot a c version

644
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: of country or of Christian music like Evie, have you

645
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: heard this? Or like this very um, I forgot some

646
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: of the other names, but like super hot a s

647
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: just like vocalist but Christian music. So it's like this,

648
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, on one hand, you have like Poison and

649
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: and Guns and Roses and Deaf Leopard and all this stuff,

650
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: and then you have like Hank and Willie and Rock

651
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: around the Clock and black gospel music, and then my

652
00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 1: mom listening to like not even that progressive yeah, like

653
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: yeah and in more hot a see more sort of

654
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: church mom kind of vibe. You know, So you had

655
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: all these influences and you're playing jazz. Were they were

656
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: they musical? My parents love music, but no, but they weren't.

657
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: They didn't sit down and and so you were not

658
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: in the band in high school? Did you play? Then

659
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: they made us parents made a piano lessons from second

660
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: grade through eighth grade, so that's six year window. We

661
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: all we all had to take them, no choice, and

662
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't it was It was almost just like understood.

663
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't like the stories where you hear your parents

664
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: like forcing you. But we didn't have a choice, so

665
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: we just did it. Were you really good? Like we

666
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: meaning there are things that I know I'm I'm pretty

667
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: good at and I can't always get better, but I'm

668
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: pretty witty that and I can try myself to be

669
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: a better comic. But I know that I feel comfortable

670
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: and I feel I see there's something there. Did you

671
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: feel that way about the piano when you were young? Like, wow,

672
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: I'm actually special in this. It became evident over time

673
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: because you know some much of that as your context, right,

674
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: Like you know you're witty because we respond to that,

675
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: right you you aren't going to be witty and a

676
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: vacuum like and I'm not gonna like know that I

677
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: can play piano well in a vacuum like it. Once

678
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: I realized, I would go to some of these recitals

679
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I was placing in or

680
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: the higher part of it, or every teacher I had

681
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, what's going on that kind of vibe.

682
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: It just that made it more evident, and you know,

683
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: and then it became sort of through. It was interesting.

684
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: We joined we were we joined band in fourth grade

685
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: and I played baritone horn, which is a kin to

686
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: a trombone, for a couple of years, and then I

687
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: got bored and switched to tuba and then played Barry

688
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: Sacks and like, I just kept doing all these different instruments,

689
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: and to me it felt like just normal. It wasn't

690
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: like this weird thing. But as I look back, it

691
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: was like a kid that age just going Okay, I

692
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: want to play tuba now, and entire of this let

693
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: me play Barry. And the fact that my band director

694
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: was cool about that, and not only cool about it,

695
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: but helped foster that love for music really early on.

696
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: You know, as a kid, but I just want to

697
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: make music. I don't even know specifically. I learned jazz

698
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: and in high school that became across my ar and

699
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh wow, I just got the

700
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: bug and started. I had a couple of friends in

701
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: high school. We just totally hit it off and we

702
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: had a little jazz trio and we just play and

703
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: our and our high school band director was amazing, Mr Ernest.

704
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: Mr Vigas was the middle school one and Mr Ernest

705
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: was a high school and he really helped foster love

706
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: for jazz. He's a great trumpet player. And I was

707
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: able to take jazz courses in the evenings at the

708
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: community college near my house where I grew up, which

709
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: also quote unquote happened to have a world class tenor

710
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: saxophonist from New York who became an educator and moved

711
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: to Bay to the Bay Area and then taught in

712
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: part at this community college. So it's like all this

713
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: crazy like obvious. Yeah, totally. They talk about how Bill

714
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: Gates just happened to be in the right a brilliant

715
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: guy totally, but happened to have a computer tons of

716
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: the town. Yeah. Well, and also the demographic of parents

717
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: that he happened to be born to were upper middle class,

718
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: which means he had the resources to be able to

719
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: access the computer at the college. And in my own way,

720
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: it's all that stuff like and especially because there's so

721
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: many dear friend chapters of it musically, and all of

722
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: these people like quote unquote happened to run into, Like

723
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: when I first moved to town or I first started

724
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: coming to town, excuse me, um, I met through a

725
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: friend of mine, Greg Becker. I met Darryl Franklin, who

726
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: was Dan Hoff's business partner at the time, and I'm

727
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: still really good friends with both of them. And that's

728
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: the world I fell into quote unquote fell into or

729
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: was introduced to, was those guys. Those are my first publishers,

730
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: Dan Huff, Darryl Franklin. Like it was just like, how

731
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: does that happen? Well, because my buddy who I met through,

732
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: my other buddy who I met through everybody introduced me

733
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: to a couple of people, and one of them was Darrow.

734
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: Like it's just when you look back on your life.

735
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: When I look back on my life, let me say

736
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: that it's insane to look at those key moments which

737
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: there there have been hundreds of them at different little

738
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: moments that have really affected where I am and who

739
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: I am. Super grateful for it, man, and I feel

740
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: like some of his divine intervention, you know, I can't

741
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: explain the wise of it. But similarly to like how

742
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: how was I born with a unique ability? Like I'm

743
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: like pretty okay at most things, and then in music

744
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: it just goes the spike and then it's like, okay,

745
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: him back to being And then how did that work?

746
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: I didn't choose that. I mean, I've I've I've I've

747
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: worked hard to develop it. But I know a lot

748
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: of people who work hard and don't have a unique

749
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: gifting in a specific area and don't get to do it.

750
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, when you come to town and Dan Have,

751
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: by the way, I spent time with him a couple

752
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: of weekends ago and there were a lot of us

753
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: there and Dan I was like, Dan, listen, I know

754
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: there are a lot of artists here, but you're the

755
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: only I want to take a picture with. Because Dan Have,

756
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean just his guitar. Oh yeah, he's a He's

757
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: a guitar hero. Literally, yeah, I love I love talking.

758
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: I'm not a guitar player. Um, so do you play guitar?

759
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: Say you not a guitar player? No? I mean I

760
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: could play acoustic, But is it like somebody going on

761
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: a golfer but then they go out and they know

762
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: I probably No. No, that's straight up, like I know

763
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: ish how to play guitar, and I could play some

764
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 1: my songs on acoustic, but I'm not a guitar player,

765
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: which I'm for many reasons. I'm grateful for it. I

766
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: wish I was at times, but when I hang with Dan,

767
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: it's like I just gotta hang and I don't have

768
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: the guitar nerd out. But I love talking to guitar

769
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: players about him because they just like start shaking. And

770
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 1: I know how amazing he is because I'm a musician

771
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: and he's like insane. I asked him. We were sitting

772
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: beside each other and we were shooting a thing, and

773
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: I said, Hey, we're talking about tr record and because

774
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: Dan producing the tracks on it, I was like, really, though, Dan, like,

775
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: how many times are you in there when you're producing

776
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: and there's a studio and listen, to be a studio

777
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: player in Nashville, you have to be phenomenal and you

778
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: just want to go let me do it, and he

779
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: was like, you know, sometimes I wanna go home and

780
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: I'll be myself, and I would think I would be like,

781
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm just going to do it with you. Musically, do

782
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: you face the same struggle sometimes where you're like, man,

783
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: I could really nail this. I can nail this key's part.

784
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: I know it will. It's funny because I probably am

785
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: strongest on piano, Like I play bass on a lot

786
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 1: of the records I produce, UM, but I'm definitely strongest

787
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: on piano. That's an instrument I I would actually potentially

788
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: have played professionally, but I'm I'm happy to not play.

789
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: And I actually really enjoy as a producer sort of

790
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: utilizing different colors because I play the piano like I

791
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: play the piano and I know what that is, I

792
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: know what it sounds like, I know what I'm gonna

793
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: do because I do it and it's and it's not

794
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: always the same, but there's the similar colors that I

795
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: go for if I hire somebody else, Like this week,

796
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: I'm tomorrow, I'm cutting some tracks and Ian Fitchuck is

797
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: playing keys and he's a brilliant multi instrumentalist. UM. He

798
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: he plays piano in a way. That's different the way

799
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: I play piano and he plays B three two In

800
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: certain ways, he kills me on B three like he

801
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: just crushes me. Certain things I do, I'd rather have

802
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: me do it. But more more important than all of that,

803
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: I like the variation. So it's amazing to be able

804
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: to go, give me your version of blue, gimme this

805
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: other color that you do that I've never heard of,

806
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: and then how can I use that to help paint?

807
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds lucy goosely, but that's the way

808
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 1: I think about it. How About I had a whole

809
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: catalog here, and once I started going, you know what,

810
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: I want to switch it up a little bit. You know.

811
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: That's what I love? Is this when right? I love

812
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: this song. I like Pink a lot, and back when

813
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: I was working pop because that, Yeah, it's been a lot.

814
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: That's been a lot of time. Uh. People was always

815
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: really cool with me because she was like human. Oh dude,

816
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: she's really cool, like in in the land of the

817
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 1: non human, which is the pop world. She was always

818
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,720
Speaker 1: really human. You know. The thing that I won't pretend

819
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: to know her super well. I've I've written with her

820
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: four or five times. Um, the thing that strikes me

821
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: about her is that she's she's an eminent professional, you know,

822
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: in a world that is um. It's not like our

823
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 1: world is unprofessional, but it's so um. It just permeates

824
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: all of all aspects of so many people's lives. She

825
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: is a professional in the sense of like, when it's

826
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: time to get on the road, she prepares herself mentally,

827
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: physically for all that stuff. And you know, if you've

828
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: seen her show, she does all this like yeah, it's insane.

829
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: So she gets like she gets back to her weight

830
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: training and all those things because she needs all those

831
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: muscles for all of that. Throughout normal day life, you

832
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 1: don't need it. And then and and you know, mentally

833
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: and whatever, and she goes and does that thing. And

834
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: then you know, I think her family is still around

835
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: and they travel with her. But when when she's not

836
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: doing that, she's chilling. Man, she's at home doing what

837
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: she wants to be doing. Apparently I'm making some assumptions here,

838
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: but it's like this this balance that is really inspiring.

839
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: You know, when we wrote she wanted to ride in

840
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: Venice because I think they have a house there and

841
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: she wanted to um be able to ride her bike

842
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: to the studio. So it was like that's the best.

843
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: You know. She literally would like ride her bike down

844
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: the main street of Venice, l a, down the sidewalk

845
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: or whatever not in a spectacle kind of way, just

846
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,399
Speaker 1: her path where she was going, and she would show

847
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: up at the studio and it was super low key.

848
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: There was no bodyguards, there was no it's just her.

849
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: And so it was that like, uh to think, yeah,

850
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: everything we've written as a minute to way, she feel

851
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: special about that one when you wrote it? Um, that one?

852
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: I did that Actually I wrote with my buddy Ben West.

853
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: That was so you've read with pick A much ties,

854
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: but you didn't write that one with no That one,

855
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: that one actually has an interesting story because she doesn't

856
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: really take outside songs. You know, she's a brilliant songwriter

857
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: and a huge hit songwriter. Um. But I had written

858
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: that song with my buddy Ben, who was literally just

859
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: with before I came here to stay in my place here.

860
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: He is a great writer, producer, lives in Detroit, comes

861
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: to Nashville a lot as well. Um, And we just

862
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: wrote it literally outside of Detroit for like we had

863
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: a band we were doing for film and TV projects.

864
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: We just made a band name and started writing songs

865
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: and we're going to pitch them for film and TV placements.

866
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: And uh, that was a song that I literally woke

867
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: up with the chorus in my head. And then Ben

868
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: and I got together and like fleshed the whole thing out,

869
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: and we didn't know what it would be. We weren't

870
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: thinking like this is gonna be a top forty hit.

871
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: We were just thinking, like, this song feels amazing to us.

872
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: Turning into my publisher, I'd be getting all these emails like,

873
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's playing it in the Berlin office. My

874
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: buddy Thomas to be like, I'm walking on the office.

875
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: Three months later, he'd hear it coming out of multiple offices.

876
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 1: It was like, what a trip. So my publisher then

877
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: sent it to our friend Rainy at our CIA and

878
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: we had cut that one again on another artist. Wasn't

879
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: the right fit? Come after the fact, I've had a

880
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: couple of other artists tell me I wanted that song,

881
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: but they wouldn't, you know. And then when I called

882
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: Rainy to tell her, hey, this first artist were cutting

883
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: it on, super talented, but it's not the right fit.

884
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: I kind of need to take the song back. She

885
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: was like, well, can I keep it and play it

886
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: for Pink? And I was like, yes, please, And then

887
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: we got word that she loved it, that she was

888
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: cutting it, and then eventually it was gonna be your

889
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: second single Wing. All all the stuff that they told

890
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 1: us was gonna happen actually happened, which I really respect

891
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: about her team. They're very like, this is what it is.

892
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: Did it help that you had a relationship with her

893
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: a bit, because again I have seemed short with you

894
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: because she hadn't take a lot out of that song. No,

895
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know her at the time, so this is

896
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: before you guys did that didn't make the bridge to

897
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: know her and to start writing totally. So like, you know,

898
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 1: a couple of years later, Um, she had been taken

899
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: time off or whatever, and I was like, man, I

900
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: wonder if she's writing again. So literally just hit her.

901
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: We hit her up and we're like, hey, we have

902
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 1: this other song. There's another song on my catalog, but

903
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: I feel as special in a similar way to this song.

904
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: And she immediately responded to it and put it on hold,

905
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: and we're like, I was like, oh, man, here we

906
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: go again. It's gonna be amazing. Unfortunately that song then

907
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: came off old like a year later. I would have

908
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: kept it for her for years because I think she's

909
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: the right artist for it. But as a result of that,

910
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: I got a call three weeks later, Hey, can you

911
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: go right with her for a film? And so we

912
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: when I went out to Malibu where she wanted to write,

913
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: and it was for this song. This movie Suffragettes. That's

914
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: an incredible movie. It's about the women's movement in England

915
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: in the early turn of the century. And I sat there.

916
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: This is the only time I've done something like this.

917
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: I sat there at her request and watched the film

918
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: start to finish. She showed up about halfway through because

919
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: she had already seen it, and you know, big hug,

920
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: and then we pushed pushed play on the film. We

921
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: finished watching and at the end we're both literally crying.

922
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: It's like this emotional film. And then I as she

923
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: went to the restaurant, I took on my phone and

924
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: like pulled up the garage band AFT to see what

925
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: key the end of the score was in, because because

926
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: we were going for the entitle and I wanted to

927
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: write in the same key. Fortunately was in the of

928
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: c Would you like the best piano. Kude's so easy

929
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: to play. So I just sit down on the piano

930
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 1: and I start like playing chords and just trying to

931
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: create emotions that reflected what the film made me feel.

932
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: And she had Dude, she's like the again professional. She

933
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: had pages of verses. She was reading me all these

934
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: lyrical verses. They was like poetry, but they were actual verses,

935
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: and it was verse after verse. I was just going,

936
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, these are amazing. But then I'm as

937
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: a writer, I'm thinking, I don't know what the hook's

938
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 1: going to be. I'm waiting for the hook. Where's the hook?

939
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: And just in passing, she she was reading so like

940
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: in Wild Hearts Can't be Broken and Dead, and I

941
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: was like, that's our hook. So we wrote this song

942
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: and then we just started playing the chorus and put

943
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: it all together and it's actually on her current album

944
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: that comes out shortly. That's a story, dude, she is.

945
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,399
Speaker 1: I like it that you watch the credits and trying

946
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: to figure out what ki it is, what can fit well.

947
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to be cohesive because I wanted just seamless.

948
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: I wanted to go from the score right into her

949
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: amazing voice and that that movie is not out yet, right?

950
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: Or is it that? Actually that movie came and went.

951
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: Sadly it was it should have been a bigger hit

952
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: than it was. It's amazing and carry Mulligan, Meryl Streep,

953
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: maryl Streeps in a movie and it came and went.

954
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: That's well, don't mean came and went. It did its thing,

955
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: but it wasn't as big as it really should have been.

956
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Man, what's it called Suffragette? You played this

957
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: in right here? This is not where those were. I

958
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: think Thomas had it first. It's funny just because like

959
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,720
Speaker 1: I love this song. How do you find out stuff

960
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: like that? Have a lot of friends, I know, but

961
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,439
Speaker 1: all right, so you know I go frown right songs

962
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: and people yeah you know, we had to do stuff,

963
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: and so they're always like yeah, yeah, yeah they at all.

964
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: And then also songwriters coming here and to spill our

965
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: guts and totally, but they forget it's being broadcast to

966
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: millions of people. It's almost though, like you're so disarming.

967
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: That's that that damn it Bill? For me, I think

968
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: if you make it a thing, it's a thing, and

969
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: if you're opening honest about it. But there's no stick.

970
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: It really wasn't a thing, and and and and for

971
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: me as a writer and professionally, you know the things

972
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: that it's always funny when people make you sign India's like,

973
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: which hasn't happened often. But it's like, by nature of

974
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: the fact that I want to work in this industry,

975
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk smack about somebody in a

976
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: public capacity ever, Like why would you do that? Right?

977
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: It just doesn't make any sense. But anyways, with to

978
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: the point with that song, it was on hold with

979
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: t R and UM. I had gotten word that Charles

980
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: really dug and this was before he had called and

981
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: they had asked me to work on their album. I

982
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: got word that he dug and he wanted to get

983
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: the demo track to put his voice on, just to

984
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: see how that worked. And I don't think that ever happened,

985
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: but I knew he was into it. And then when

986
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: they asked me to come work with him, I kind

987
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: of thought, let me put this in the back pocket,

988
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: because he asked, like, let's he was like, let's do

989
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: maybe six songs and just see how what evolves. And

990
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to be very respectful of their creative process.

991
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: And not come in and just go yeah, I know

992
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: you guys want to write a lot of this, but

993
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: here's a song you should cut. Just see what happens.

994
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: And in the first half, you know, that first six

995
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: would turned into the eight songs, which went really well.

996
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: I've known them for years. It was just this big

997
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: family vibe basically in a great way. Did you go

998
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: down to the house in Florida? No. Just after that

999
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: is when I got the call um. But I had

1000
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: asked him to come to l A if they wanted to,

1001
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: and they were willing, and so they came out and

1002
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: they stayed at a place in um Hollywood Hills, and

1003
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: we worked at a buddy's home studio. It's like multimillion dollar,

1004
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: gorgeous studio in Too Luca Lake, beautiful home. He's got

1005
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: this like feral cat in the cage and like like

1006
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: this beautiful swimming pool. It was. It was a great vibe.

1007
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: But so we did. We did the first half and

1008
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: then come to the second half of the album and

1009
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: I just was like, you know what, I'm gonna play

1010
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: this for him. I think they need to hear this song.

1011
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: I think it'd be good for fit for what's going on.

1012
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, I had been in communication with

1013
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: Virginia seeing what TRS was ultimate h Thomas manager. She's awesome,

1014
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: and ultimately it was like, you know what, he loves it,

1015
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: but it's just not right for what he's wanted to

1016
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,399
Speaker 1: do or whatever. So it's like no problem. And then

1017
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: and soon and then why not playing it for for them?

1018
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: And they were like, is it is our first single?

1019
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Charles, as you know, is so energetic and

1020
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: so in the moment something I really admire and um

1021
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: appreciate about him, and in the context of them, they

1022
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: all have their superpowers. When I is is that like,

1023
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what I'm thinking. It's gonna be real,

1024
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: it's gonna be energetic, it's gonna be right now. And

1025
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: immediately was like, this is gonna be our first single,

1026
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: and I was like that would be awesome. Sure enough

1027
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: it was so. I mean when the record gets nominated

1028
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: for Record of the Year, I mean, that's it. That's

1029
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: the thing. Yeah, that felt really it's gratifying. Man. I

1030
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: was talking to my publisher today, I'm I'm grateful for

1031
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: recognition of our art. You know, I don't I don't

1032
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: live for awards, They actually all I put them all

1033
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: in my closet besides the ones I've given to a

1034
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: few family members. I'm grateful for them. I'm not trying

1035
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: to diminish them, but I just put them there because

1036
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a reminder of what happened, and

1037
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm looking for what's going to happen next, you know.

1038
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: And I don't want to ever like rest on any

1039
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: accolades or any those types of things, but those types

1040
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: of awards where it's like, of all the albums that happened,

1041
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna nominate this is one of them. And especially

1042
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: for them in that process, they were they were taking

1043
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: a chance and a lot of things that they were

1044
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: doing and wanting to turn a page and and uncover

1045
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: some new Earth. And and when that's recognized in a

1046
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: way that feels impactful, it's like, Okay, we weren't out

1047
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: of our minds, you know, Well, listen, they took a

1048
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: chance at just sonically horns, Horns, that's a chance. But

1049
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: it's funny, man, the other side of that story. You know,

1050
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: I didn't even put horns on that song because I'm

1051
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: a trauma player, Like I don't walk around thinking that

1052
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm a horn player, like I haven't been. You don't understand, man,

1053
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: I'm I haven't been a trauma player in any professional

1054
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: or really. I mean I haven't literally proactively played the

1055
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: trauma for probably eighteen years or something like that. Like

1056
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: I literally just set it down. It's like being a

1057
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: track star. You have to work at it every day

1058
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: or and it's that frustrating. If you don't work out,

1059
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: you're not going to run fast. So you don't practice

1060
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: at we lose it. So I didn't put horns on

1061
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: there because I'm a trauma player. I put horns on

1062
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: there because I was like, this would be rad to

1063
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: have horns. And we wrote it with Ryan Hurd and

1064
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: Hillary thinking it would be for Ryan at the time.

1065
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: And Ryan had played a show, Um, Derek Wells does

1066
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: these nights over I think it's the Basement Niece where

1067
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: they're themed nights, and this was the nineties night and

1068
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 1: and I don't want to specify what song it was,

1069
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: just in case there's any weird connections, but he had

1070
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: played a song and with the band it had a

1071
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: certain feel, had really nothing to do with the original version,

1072
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: but it just felt like, oh my gosh, and We

1073
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: felt inspired by that, and I was like, we should

1074
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: have a song that feels like that for you, you know,

1075
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: and so, um, we wrote it with Hillary and and

1076
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 1: then ultimately, for whatever reason, it wasn't right for Ryan.

1077
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: And then you're like, but then everything lands where it's

1078
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: supposed to land. Man, it's hard to it's hard to

1079
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: believe that when things aren't connecting, but it's always true. Yeah,

1080
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 1: this one here, I'm going to I mean this one.

1081
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: This is how early in the national process was this

1082
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: for you? It was early? Maybe well four or five

1083
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: years maybe something that I've been coming to Nashville for

1084
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: eleven years. Like when I say coming to Nashville, I

1085
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: mean a week a month for eleven years. That's an

1086
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: I just trying to rears to the world. That's a week.

1087
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 1: That's a that's a good publisher gave me a private jet.

1088
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 1: So it's been can you imagine it's Southwest Man every

1089
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: literally every month, and right at this point with a

1090
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 1: companion exactly, I'm flying with Buddy too. The best is

1091
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: the best. So you talk about Storm Morning, Yeah, Hunter

1092
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: Hunter was, Um, you know, this is his first album,

1093
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: so there wasn't I mean first album in Nashville proper

1094
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,320
Speaker 1: and on a label and all that stuff, but you know,

1095
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: and it was I was given the prep of like, yeah,

1096
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,240
Speaker 1: he's like this. He was a boy wonder you know, zydeco,

1097
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: multi instrumentalist whatever. He comes in and he's just like

1098
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: this super energetic, really nice dude who's obviously multifacetedly talented.

1099
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: And we just had that idea came up and it

1100
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: was with Gordy and Hunter. I remember we wrote in

1101
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: that shack where Gordy's written a lot of great songs

1102
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: over the years, and uh, it just came out. It

1103
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: was just one of those you know, you never know, man,

1104
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: not never, but like try. I wrote Try and my

1105
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: buddies Buddies Studio an hour and a half outside of Detroit,

1106
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: thinking it was this and it becomes this, and like

1107
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: you just try to show up and write the best

1108
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: song you can and hope it lands. How about this one?

1109
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: I see your face play it like there's an emotion

1110
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,919
Speaker 1: where it's almost like I read this book called I'm Okay,

1111
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: You're Okay, and I'll go a little psychole bottle on

1112
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: your for a second, because I enjoy Psycho Boat. But

1113
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: they talk about when you hear a song, your brain reacts,

1114
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: even for a split second, it puts you back to

1115
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: the place that you were whenever you heard it for

1116
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: the first time, you created it, whatever it is like

1117
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 1: for it, just a split second, you feel that again.

1118
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: And I watched your face in your head turn when

1119
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: you heard it again, even though you've heard it ten

1120
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: thousand times. Tell me about this never gets old to me,

1121
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: like it's just um, It's special for a lot of reasons,

1122
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: Like Marin was the first artist. I do artist development

1123
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: as a profession, right, it's signed people to me. Carly's

1124
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: part of that process. Marin was prior to that in

1125
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 1: this in a professional sense, but being there so early

1126
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: on it emotionally had a lot of that same connection,

1127
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: you know, and seeing her in those early days I remember.

1128
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I've told people when I first heard Marin

1129
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: saying it was a Lucy Silvis's house. It's a long story,

1130
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 1: but let me tell you the quick version. My friend Nadine,

1131
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 1: who is day to day with Shakira is like a manager,

1132
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: came to town and I wanted her to experience Nashville

1133
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: and it's full of She's a wonderful person. I wanted

1134
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: to like pull out all the stops for her. So

1135
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: I was like, you gotta go see a writer's round,

1136
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: But none of the rounds that I saw for that

1137
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: week where people I had known or things or whatever.

1138
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: So I was like, we'll just put one together, which

1139
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: I don't even know why I thought to do that.

1140
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 1: It just seemed to make sense. So I hit up Lucy,

1141
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: John Green, Barry Dean, all of whom are very soulful singers,

1142
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: great songwriters, and we decided to do Lucy's house, Lucy

1143
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: and John's and East Nashville's tall ceilings like this with

1144
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: brick walls, very reverberant old house. And she and I

1145
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: were talking a little bit about it, and Lucy and

1146
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: she goes, you should in. I had that girl, Maren,

1147
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: you know you wrote with her a couple of weeks ago.

1148
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: She's great, you should hear her, you know. I was like, okay, great.

1149
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 1: So I called Maren and was like, hey, I know

1150
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: we only wrote once, but you want to come do

1151
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: this thing. And and the five of us with my

1152
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: friend Nadine and her friend, John's manager, and my wife,

1153
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,880
Speaker 1: nine of us were in the house just doing around

1154
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: and it felt like we're either Bluebird or anywhere. I mean,

1155
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: it was that awesome for all of us there. We

1156
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: were such fans of each other. But when I heard

1157
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: Maren sing her songs with her lyrics, it was I mean,

1158
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't there when Cheryl Crow was discovered. I was

1159
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: there when Adel was discovered, but it felt like that urgency,

1160
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 1: in that importance, like straight up. I remember telling my wife.

1161
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 1: I called Derek Wells the next day, was like, dude,

1162
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,840
Speaker 1: I've never heard anything like that. I've never heard somebody

1163
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: sing like this. I've never heard somebody communicy like I

1164
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: have to be a part of this, you know, I

1165
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: don't know. And then I called her up. I'm like,

1166
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: what what's going on? Are you doing the artist thing? Like?

1167
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 1: And can I produce? I'll do anything, like I'll pay

1168
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: for the players. I don't get like whatever if if

1169
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: the money is an issue, let me help, Like I

1170
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: just want to be involved, and she like, let's write

1171
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: and see what happens. And we did and that evolved.

1172
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: In long story short, it turned out that I produced

1173
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: a project. Most of the projects, some of it we

1174
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: co produced with Brad Hill, who was amazing, and she

1175
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: co produced it and it it's so much of our

1176
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: hearts to put into it because it was like you know,

1177
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: when you there was no clear path. We didn't know

1178
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: what it was gonna be. It took you know, she

1179
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: didn't have a label deal at the time. You know

1180
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: she got signed to the deal. It took people like

1181
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: you playing that song like all that stuff happened to

1182
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: then make it the hit commercially that it was. But

1183
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm still connected back to the beginning of it, and

1184
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: it all came together, do you know what I'm saying?

1185
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: And I wonder the emotion like well, when I played

1186
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: it again, I saw emotion for a split second. What's

1187
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: the give me give me the word gratitude, truly, man,

1188
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: that that song helped solidify some stuff for me. You know,

1189
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: it's it. I came up as a record producer and

1190
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: a songwriter, and I'm not I don't own either one

1191
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,439
Speaker 1: of those things. I don't. It's not like their mind

1192
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: to own. And I made a conscious decision to focus

1193
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: on writing because I like the lifestyle better. I like um.

1194
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: If I had to choose one of the two, I

1195
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: would choose songwriting. And I decided if I would ever

1196
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: be able to produce again, that it would flow out

1197
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: of the songs, and that was the first song that

1198
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 1: I had produced that had a huge impact truly. I

1199
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: mean that was that was the first hit I had

1200
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: as a producer, but even as a song like being

1201
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 1: there when she walked in the studio that day. It

1202
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: was at my place in Glendale in l A. She

1203
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 1: had been driving up the pch and she comes in

1204
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: and she goes, I want to write a song called

1205
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: my Church. And I was thinking, Oh, that's cool. What's

1206
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: that about. She said, when I drive in the car

1207
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: and I listening to music, I I love, I feel

1208
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: like I'm connected to God. It feels like church to me.

1209
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 1: And if I remember correctly, I literally picked up a

1210
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: guitar and was like, can I get a hell? Because

1211
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: that's a that's a phrase, you know, Can I get

1212
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: an amen? And she just starts singing the rest of

1213
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: the chorus. And we worked on it a bit and

1214
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: then she writes the verses while I'm working on a track,

1215
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: and I think I hour and a half later, we

1216
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: had finished it and she's vocal sing a vocal in

1217
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: thirty minutes and it was just and because another beauty

1218
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: of it is like and I like all sides of it. Man,

1219
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: It's not that I only like staying under the radar

1220
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: and stay away from our creative process. I enjoy also

1221
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: when it's pressurizing. It's it's a new challenge, right. But

1222
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: that was so under the radar. There was no label

1223
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: deal in place, There was no specific expectation outside of

1224
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: us other than those who knew what was going on.

1225
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: We wanted to be great her thing, you know, but

1226
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 1: there was no like has to sell this, manure has

1227
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: to do this. It was just we're doing what we

1228
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: think is her and what's going to resonate. You know,

1229
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: you talk about Marin, let's talk about Carly for a second.

1230
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: You wrote with her same kind of thing. You wrote it,

1231
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 1: then you produced it. This song is is special for

1232
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons. To me. We wrote this with him,

1233
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: Emily Shackleton, who's an amazing songwriter. I mean, this is,

1234
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, her first ten top ten as well,

1235
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 1: all those cards. And you know Daniel my my publisher,

1236
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: Daniel Lee, who's brilliant. He brought her to me because

1237
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,399
Speaker 1: we made a conscious decision to invest in developing an artist.

1238
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: After the marine thing happened, it was like, wow, I

1239
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: love that process. I hadn't done much artist development in

1240
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: that capacity, or I hate to say it about Marion

1241
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: like that she is an artist, but I was involved

1242
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: early on. That's all I'm saying. With Carly. Okay, with Carly,

1243
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: it was it was, um, you know, she had so

1244
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: many things in place, but there was you know, the

1245
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: music wasn't quite right yet. You know, when she knew that,

1246
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 1: she came to us going, this is what I want

1247
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: to be doing, this is what I have, and we

1248
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: played she played it for us, and I was like, well,

1249
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: there's a discrepancy here. Let's figure out how we can

1250
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 1: figure that out. But she had also at the time. Um,

1251
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: and man, it's it's it's it sounds like I'm gushing.

1252
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to gus. You have been so helpful

1253
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: too with female artists, man, Like that is that's near

1254
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: and dear to my heart because I love all kinds

1255
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 1: of artists. But I love amazing singers historically a lot

1256
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: of amazing singers or females. Not that there's not great

1257
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: male singers, but like you think of all the way

1258
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: back out Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Whitney, you know, like I mean,

1259
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: go on and on, and there's you know those types

1260
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: of voice type singers, you know, big voices, UM and Carly.

1261
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: Everyone had said no, Basically, she'd been here since she

1262
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: was eighteen, busting her ass, like not sitting on her

1263
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: but kind of going, kind of working and kind of

1264
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: hoping it's gonna happen and who's gonna win. As you know,

1265
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: only fly Bobby could play my independent song and I'll

1266
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: become There was none of that. It was literally like

1267
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: busting her ass doing the thing, and that, more than

1268
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: anything is what drew Daniel and myself to her as

1269
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: the work ethic, you know, and that because that's that's

1270
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: really what separates the men from the boys. You and

1271
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: I were talking earlier about our schedules. It's insane, you

1272
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: know that, man, we have to work crazy pants been

1273
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: to do this thing. Um. But for her, the key

1274
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: was really unlocking the mut the music and that song

1275
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: was a song that we had written where it was

1276
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: like I remember her coming over and Emily was coming

1277
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: over and I was like, we don't have any ballads,

1278
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: which is never the case. I went up tempos and

1279
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: I was like and and quite frankly, we were inspired

1280
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: by the fact that Cam was working and that beautiful,

1281
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: and I was like, of course it's working. You have

1282
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: a great voice, you have an amazing, haunting, beautiful song.

1283
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: Why would it not work Conceptually? I know it's not

1284
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: that easy, but it was like, all right, let's try

1285
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: to do that that descriptor haunting, beautiful, amazing song ballad

1286
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: with an amazing voice, and that song is the song

1287
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: that came out that day. And it just I mean,

1288
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: anybody who has worked hard and had success deserves it,

1289
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 1: but that girl, that girl deserves it. Man. It's been

1290
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 1: amazing to be a part of that story. And Emily too.

1291
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like that stuff. It just I remember

1292
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: having my first hit that was amazing. I was driving

1293
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: up to to introduce my then fiance girlfriend shortly to

1294
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: become my fiance to my parents. Now she's my wife,

1295
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 1: and on the way up, Darryll called and said, hey,

1296
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,280
Speaker 1: Rascal Flats is Summer Night's the next single, and I

1297
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, And that was one of the

1298
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: best feelings as a career wise, you know, but better

1299
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: than that, bro, And you probably know this. Seeing someone

1300
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: you care about or involved and invest in them having

1301
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: a hit, that's just like anyways at all, first hit period, Yeah,

1302
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: first single, right, let's say radio hit. You know it was,

1303
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: And it was the first first radio single I had

1304
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: in a commercial sense. I had other songs that were

1305
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: released independent radio or that kind of thing, but the first,

1306
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: like you know, commercial record label going to any sort

1307
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: of sort of proper commercial radio. People in the city

1308
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: can be like, I heard your songst Pittsburgh, Like, yeah,

1309
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: it's funny. I always think of that song. People talk

1310
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: about the eagle cooler. You know that line. It's he's

1311
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: saying iglue cooler, but it sounds like eagle cooler. A

1312
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 1: lot of people are like, what's the ego cooler? I'm like,

1313
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? We wrote that on Gary's

1314
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: back porch with Brett James. That was a fun day

1315
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: at the Box's house. Yeah. Yeah, Gary's funny. Huh oh.

1316
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: He is one of the funniest people ever. Yeah. I

1317
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: would see him. We used to live about four houses

1318
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: down from each other before I moved, and he would

1319
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: go work out in full camouflage, like long sleeve he's

1320
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: go wait. He would go work and in the first

1321
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: time I was and I've told this part of the story,

1322
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: there's some kind of actos bike to kept waving at

1323
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: me and full Camo when I was like, who's working

1324
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: out for me? And it was Gary, And but then

1325
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: I would see him there again working at a full

1326
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: Camo and they're like, what are you Like, Oh, it's

1327
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: just the clothes were laying around. I put him on.

1328
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: And now it's like he disappeared, like when they're not

1329
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: working d Gary disappears into the woods and it's like,

1330
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: good luck finding them, totally man. He actually, yeah he is.

1331
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: He's a big hunter. He's a he's a yeah, he's

1332
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: he's a really good guy. Man. They I gotta say they.

1333
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: They were the first artist in town to really believe

1334
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 1: and invest in me, like um Jodon had heard some

1335
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 1: stuff I had written and sung the demos too. Back

1336
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: then I was seeing a lot of my own songs

1337
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: demos because Dan had played him a song or whatever.

1338
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: However that worked, and so he reached out to ride

1339
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: with me and then Jay and then Gary and written

1340
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: with every combination of them, and my first song, my

1341
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: first cut was with them, commercial cut. It was a

1342
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: song called Better Now that I with Greg Becker and

1343
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: Daryl Brown. And then my first single was with him. Literally,

1344
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean sort of happens stantially in that regard. But

1345
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: they've they've been amazing to me. Man, They're just we're

1346
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: talking about singers. And I know you produced this song

1347
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 1: here and I did that. I was on the radio,

1348
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: was talking at the last couple of weeks, and I

1349
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: just like to make lists, and I like list to

1350
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: be controversial sometimes, you know, I like people talking at

1351
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 1: the point of it. But I did this whole list

1352
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: of underrated artists. And it's subjective because like subjective, I

1353
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: think I just saw this today, whoever I want, you know,

1354
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: and it's my opinion. It does it's not right, it's

1355
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,440
Speaker 1: my right. But I put Lauren on there because when

1356
01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 1: she's listen, there are in the landa fantastic singers. Then

1357
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 1: there's Lauren Alena, and there's the other one of the one,

1358
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: and she's in that, and so you're producing that and

1359
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know it. Yeah, you know, she's I was

1360
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: with Keith the other day and he's a car guy

1361
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: and he, you know, we were talking about a Buggatti

1362
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: that's some friend of his hat or whatever, and it's

1363
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: like she's that of voices, Like she is the the

1364
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: elite race car of voices. You know. It's like and

1365
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: there are a lot of awesome race cars that costs

1366
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 1: a lot of money. But then there's that, Yeah, this

1367
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: particular Bugatti I think sold for like eight million pounds.

1368
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: It was so rare. But she yeah, she has so

1369
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: few limits to what she could do vocally. It's insane,

1370
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: Like it is literally insane. And that was an interesting

1371
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: part of our process, you know. Of course, when you're

1372
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 1: making a record as an aside, you it's like being

1373
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: in camp, you know, like you go to camp, you

1374
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: all become this family for a period of time, and

1375
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: then someone blows the whistle and goes camps over and

1376
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 1: you're like, crap, man, we have to go home, and

1377
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: then you miss each other and then you're like, what happened?

1378
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,800
Speaker 1: We had so much fun at camp, you know. But anyways,

1379
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: when we were making that record with her, um, she'd

1380
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: come out to l A to record some vocals, and

1381
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, again to keep the analogy going, it was

1382
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: like I had taken the Bugatti out to the track

1383
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: and the engine was sputtering, and I'm like, what the

1384
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: heck is going on? Is a finally tuned machine? And

1385
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: she was having vocal challenges and what ultimately want up

1386
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: being she had had vocal surgery, which understandably, she was

1387
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 1: super freaked out about that because that's like that's not

1388
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: only her livelihood, but it's her passion, like and you know,

1389
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: she that's who she is. And I, you know, I

1390
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: couldn't guarantee her of anything. I'm not a doctor, but

1391
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I've had multiple friends go through that.

1392
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: I bet you anything, it'll actually be better on the

1393
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: back side, not just back to where you were, but

1394
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: even better. And yeah, and she's got more control even

1395
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: and more and how do you improve on what she had?

1396
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: But it's crazy, man, her her naturally born and obviously

1397
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: she's worked on it too, but naturally gifted ability is

1398
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 1: just like out of control. The throat, the throat was

1399
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: like a vagina, and she was send me pictures of

1400
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: her throat and I would for a second, I was,

1401
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: and I knew she wasn't send any picture of vagina

1402
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: whenever someone sent you that picture. And I haven't even

1403
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: seen that many vagina there, like just like I've I've

1404
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: gained She's like, I'm able to sing places now that

1405
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,919
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to sing. And she already these kids

1406
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: and she's she was definitely kid. When you want the

1407
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,760
Speaker 1: talent show. To go on these talent shows, and you

1408
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 1: gave right people off go the talent show culture, you

1409
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: have to be able to sing to go on these

1410
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: live talent shows and be successful. And so it's like

1411
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: when the Daniel Bradberry is the Lauren elenas and Kelly

1412
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: pick Kelly blow the roof off the place singing, and

1413
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: so Lauren is that and then plus yeah, no, she

1414
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,760
Speaker 1: it was. The amazing part about working with her is

1415
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: that there was so I don't think there was anything

1416
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: I could ask her to sing that she couldn't do.

1417
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: That's and Mary would probably say the same thing in

1418
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 1: the sense of like I'm always telling them there's things

1419
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: they can do that they don't think they can do,

1420
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: not because I'm trying to be silly, because I feel

1421
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 1: like I understand how far they can go and try

1422
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: to push that in a sense usually hitting a particular

1423
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: note or whatever. But then some of the trick too

1424
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,479
Speaker 1: is learning how to go because I mean, Lauren's Lauren

1425
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 1: could do anything like vocally, so she'll be like she'll

1426
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:14,760
Speaker 1: be listening back to her takes and like singing riffs

1427
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: over the top of them that she could and so

1428
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: it's almost like also knowing like when to to do

1429
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: to restrain yourself, because just because you can go a

1430
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: hundred eighty miles an hour doesn't mean that's what you

1431
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 1: should do on you know, if you're gonna drive your

1432
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: Bugatti down to the road, you know what I mean.

1433
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: So it's as a producer, that's part of the trick

1434
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: is being not the governor like it's my call, but

1435
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: like helping her know where those parameters should be, you know,

1436
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: and really gunning it so to speak, at those right times.

1437
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: Keep taking on the batmobile. You gotta go drive. Let

1438
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: you drive it, you know. It's it's kind of embarrassing.

1439
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: I can't fit in that thing that he has that butt.

1440
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: If you're talk about the bigot, Yeah it is. It's

1441
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: it's like tiny. I'm six ft four two pounds, Like

1442
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: I'm a big dude man. Literally. I mean when I

1443
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 1: say I can't fit in it, I can fit in,

1444
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 1: but I couldn't drive it comfortably to drive it right.

1445
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 1: He would have probably let me. He's the best man.

1446
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: Like it's just what's the goal, Like, now, what's the goal?

1447
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: To stay married to the same woman and be a

1448
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 1: good husband and father? Truly, that's it like all this

1449
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: other stuff I'm grateful for, and I get obsess over.

1450
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: I love what we do. It's not that it's not important.

1451
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: It's stupidly important. But if if you're gonna ask me that,

1452
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 1: I think as big picture as I can, and that's

1453
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: what I come up with, Like I want I want

1454
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: to be there at seventy when you know, Bobby Bones

1455
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: doesn't call me and going, hey, be on my podcast

1456
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: because I'm seventy and no one cares who I am

1457
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: with that woman with those kids, thriving, you know, and

1458
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: um hopefully living a life where people go that dude

1459
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: impacted me. He cared, you know, Because it's like all

1460
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 1: this other stuff is amazing. Man. I get I get

1461
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 1: a produce, I gotta write songs and people pay me

1462
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: to write songs and produced records. It's incredible. That's what

1463
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: I was made to do. I'm so grateful. But it's

1464
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: not even just a conversation of like how quick does

1465
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: a song go off the radio? Like who who was

1466
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: the Grammy Award winning a song of nineteen It would

1467
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: take me hours of asking people without googling it. No

1468
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 1: one would know though. It was the biggest thing, and

1469
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: it was huge and impactful and it matters to everybody.

1470
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's no longer important, but what's important

1471
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: in that regard comes and goes. I'm curious. Now let's

1472
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: see if let's let's just take a guess my google

1473
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: it what the Grammy award when I might have my

1474
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: years off, But I do know what I think the song.

1475
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: Let me see what I can do in nine Now

1476
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: I gotta think aware. Yeah, but I would go to

1477
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 1: where the It's just something that I get that I know,

1478
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: Yeah it is. Can you show me? I want to

1479
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: make sure I've looked before. Yeah, I'll wait for it. Yeah.

1480
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: I want to work backward. There's a Kiss from a

1481
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 1: Rose that's not early nineties. That's like, yeah, that's I

1482
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: guess it's like ninety four three maybe, yeah, Okay, eighty

1483
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: nine was pre I'm gonna go with the Bodyguard. No,

1484
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 1: that's nineties. It's early Yeah it is. It's tricky, and

1485
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: you know what's the other tricky. What's all the tricky

1486
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: about that time is the songs that we tend to

1487
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: remember are like the rackish leaning ones that weren't the

1488
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: Grand typically Grammy Award winning Songs of the Year. This song.

1489
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: It's the one I thinking it was a huge song,

1490
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: but it sounds like it should have come out before.

1491
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know what is it? What do you

1492
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:42,639
Speaker 1: think it is? If it's the right one as Women

1493
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 1: in My Wings, but I might have the wrong year.

1494
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 1: What is it? Oh, that's a bad example, the example

1495
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: what happens? Because we do still love it, But it's like,

1496
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: you know what, the point remains the stuff that I

1497
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: mean that is just pre eminently important in our work comes,

1498
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: it goes. And I don't mean that flippantly. Man, It's

1499
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: not like nothing matters because you can go you can

1500
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: go all lamentations on it, which truly in the grand

1501
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: scheme of things, what is anything, you know, But it's

1502
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: not actually just the work that matters, you know. It's

1503
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: the relationships. It's the the heart, you know, and that's

1504
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 1: something that it's it's tricky to remember that stuff. I

1505
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,599
Speaker 1: struggle with that because it's if if, like you did

1506
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:29,640
Speaker 1: ask me, that's what's really the most important to me.

1507
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: But sometimes my life only reflects the business part of it,

1508
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, as opposed to the relational part of not

1509
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: that the relationships don't matter, but like prioritizing taking the

1510
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,680
Speaker 1: moment and going like, how are you doing? Man? Like

1511
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: what's really going on? Like are you? Are you good?

1512
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: Like is everything cool? Do you need to talk? I'm here,

1513
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: you know, because that stuff matters, man, that really does.

1514
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 1: And it's not Again, that's the stuff that happens behind

1515
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: closed doors, in secret you're never applauded for, you know,

1516
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:56,600
Speaker 1: but those are the things that echo echo heaven, so

1517
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: to speak. You know, that's that's the stuff that matters.

1518
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: Who do you go to when it's you're like I'm

1519
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 1: stuck or I'm in trouble with not at the law,

1520
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 1: but like creatively I'm in trouble, Like I don't I

1521
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: don't really know who's your who's your guy, who's your girl? Um,

1522
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: I mean I talked to my wife about that stuff.

1523
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 1: I talked to my publisher, my pastor, my best friends.

1524
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just all of its one big conversation truly,

1525
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: and and several other several writer friends, you know. Um.

1526
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:30,919
Speaker 1: The thing I've learned or been learning is whatever I struggle,

1527
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: typically it's not unique to me. Just because we don't

1528
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: talk about it in normal conversation doesn't mean other people

1529
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 1: aren't going through the same things. You say that, And

1530
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: so I wrote this book, right, and I read a

1531
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: book and it did well. It was the best seller

1532
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 1: for a while. But I was really nervous at putting

1533
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: it out because I felt very alone in my story

1534
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,680
Speaker 1: totally because I grew up a kid and my I

1535
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:52,720
Speaker 1: didn't have a dad, and my mom was a drug

1536
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 1: addict and she died your forties and I was, and

1537
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 1: we went through some very tough times. And I thought,

1538
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell the story, and I'm I felt

1539
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: very alone in my entire life. I felt very like

1540
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,840
Speaker 1: nobody knew what I've been through. And it created this

1541
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 1: humongous chip on my shoulder because nobody knew what I

1542
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: had been through. I put this book out, and first

1543
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 1: of all, I was like, man, nobody's gonna do you.

1544
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,000
Speaker 1: I will go do show stand up shows. People come

1545
01:11:14,040 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 1: up to me and go, you told this story. I

1546
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: had the same story, an it blows my mind. I

1547
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 1: spent my whole life thinking I was alone. And then

1548
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,720
Speaker 1: when I put this out and people people would consume it,

1549
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: the amount of people that come and go, hey, you're

1550
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: not alone, Like dude, I was like that what you

1551
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,600
Speaker 1: said there is what I experienced now with something. And

1552
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: even the radio show where I'm talking, I'm vulnerable and

1553
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: I say things and I think no one same thing,

1554
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 1: and what you said there is the other part of it,

1555
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 1: even if like your exact story is not my story.

1556
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 1: But when you throw the vulnerable card on the table,

1557
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: it creates an environment where oh, I can be vulnerable,

1558
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm learning that myself. Like often we

1559
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: have to lead, we have to go no one's being vulnerable,

1560
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 1: but I'm feeling whatever. I'm gonna just say it. Hey,

1561
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: are you guys struggle? Do you think that you're never

1562
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: gonna have hits song again? Or that everyone thinks what

1563
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 1: you do as a joke or whatever it is, you know,

1564
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 1: and everyone starts to go, wait, you're you feel that too,

1565
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: I feel, and we start able to talk about those

1566
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,240
Speaker 1: things and just sort of like, um, put the pin

1567
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: in a little bit, so to speak, because you know,

1568
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: we're all creatives and as such, our brains are a

1569
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,640
Speaker 1: little like extra walky. And it comes it comes with

1570
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: the tax, the emotional tax, right of having to deal

1571
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: with some of these extra insecurities and extra fears. I mean,

1572
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 1: we all have insecurities and fears, but it's just seems

1573
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 1: somewhat heightened with creatives. I always say it to be different,

1574
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 1: you really have to be different, meaning if you want

1575
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: to be different than the rest, you don't just go

1576
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: and be different and then you're the same the rest

1577
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 1: of you, like totally, like I'm a weird human, but

1578
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: that weirdness allows me to do different types of things

1579
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 1: and where I can flourish in certain areas, I really

1580
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: struggle in others totally, but that's what makes me different.

1581
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: Like for me to be different, I am different, and

1582
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: something that's tricky about that, or let me just speak

1583
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: for myself. It's been tricky because being this dude who's

1584
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: like I was a jazz dramon player, and I write

1585
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 1: pop songs and country songs and produced and publishing business

1586
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: and music and altogether it's like there's not it's not

1587
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:12,680
Speaker 1: like you can just go, oh, I'm gonna build a

1588
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: career just like this person, which you can't do that

1589
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: to begin with. But when you're sort of doing you,

1590
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 1: the path isn't laid out, and it's sort it's scary,

1591
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: it really is, because everything and me constantly wants to

1592
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: go like who can I look to who's done the thing?

1593
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 1: And I definitely have mentors and people I admire like

1594
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: Dan and other people like that who I can call

1595
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: and have these real types of conversations with. And but

1596
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: Dan Hust's career is totally different than the career I'm

1597
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:39,120
Speaker 1: working on and where that's headed. And even if I

1598
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 1: try to replicate his career, it's not possible. You know,

1599
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 1: his is unique to him, and Mutt Langs is unique

1600
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 1: to him, and Quincy's to him, and Da Da Da

1601
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: Da DA's everybody. You know. I'm not saying I'm in that.

1602
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,519
Speaker 1: I'm but you can't hear on the podcast. My hand

1603
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: is going up because those are the super producers. You

1604
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,519
Speaker 1: know that you look up two and like those you

1605
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: just have you do you? You know, because this is

1606
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:05,600
Speaker 1: the other way I started to look at. It's the

1607
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: cheesest thing to say, but like, I'm the best Buzzby

1608
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: that's ever existed. I'm a horrible Bobby Bones. You're the

1609
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: best Bobby Bones that's ever existed. You'd be a horrible me,

1610
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 1: and vice versa Mike, like, it's you gotta be you,

1611
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: you know, and we need that everyone. I need you

1612
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: to be you, you need me to be me. I

1613
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: need you to be you. I appreciate the conversation. Man,

1614
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: You're way smarter than I am. Sometimes to sit beside somebody,

1615
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: I was hoping, you're gonna say, way smarter than I

1616
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: thought I was gonna. I was gonna hug you. Just

1617
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: like sit with people. And there are times where I

1618
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 1: talk and there are times where I shut up because

1619
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,640
Speaker 1: I feel like I can learn. It's definitely one of

1620
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: those times if I just shut up and just just

1621
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: just took some notes, like, I really appreciate the time.

1622
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 1: I know you're a busy dude, so I appreciate you

1623
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: stopped buying shed the knowledge like I felt like I

1624
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: didn't went to match, like I paid a hundred bucks

1625
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: for Steve Martin master classes. I love Martin creatively and

1626
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 1: in so many forms it. He was selling out stadiums

1627
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:03,840
Speaker 1: doing stand up when it just didn't make sense to

1628
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 1: you because you couldn't see him totally and you couldn't

1629
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 1: hear him just a p a literally yes, literally, So

1630
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 1: you know. I bought the master class and I enjoyed it,

1631
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 1: but I played a hundred bucks for it, right. I

1632
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: love Steve Martin, but I feel like I just got

1633
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: a free Buzby master class here thanks man, thanks for

1634
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 1: having me, Thanks for coming in my episode. That's Buzby

1635
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: or is I call him Mike? Does anybody call you what?

1636
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,080
Speaker 1: Your wife? Dan huff insists on trying to call me

1637
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: Michael Michael, and he's trying to make as many people

1638
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 1: call me. That's so Keith's been calling me Michael and

1639
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: anyone Dan can influence to call me Michael. He thinks

1640
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: it bothers me. It doesn't. But thanks Dan, Thanks everybody,

1641
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 1: Thanks for thanking