1
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,320
Speaker 1: Cops respond to a home to find a dead body

2
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,080
Speaker 1: with an elderly mom and her two adult daughters inside.

3
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:26,280
Speaker 1: How did that happen? One eleven? First of all, take

4
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 1: a listen to this. Around ten o'clock Pacific time Saturday morning,

5
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,839
Speaker 1: police in South Pasadena, California, respond to a home on

6
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,840
Speaker 1: five Oaks Drive after receiving a call about a domestic

7
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,760
Speaker 1: violence incident. As officers pull up to the property, they

8
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 1: can hear screaming coming from inside the home and can

9
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,520
Speaker 1: see that a front window has been shattered. They enter

10
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,640
Speaker 1: the home to find a forty year old man beaten

11
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 1: and suffering from stab wounds. What happened again? Thank you

12
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nay in series

13
00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 1: M one eleven, let me introduce to you an all

14
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back

15
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 1: together again, hopefully make some sense of it all. First

16
00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 1: of all, Kathleen Murphy family lawyer, as it is euphemistically called,

17
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: joining us out of North Carolina. You can find her

18
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,400
Speaker 1: at NC Domestic Law dot com. Renowned psychiatrists Joining us

19
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Doctor Angela Arnold at angela

20
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 1: Arnold MD dot com. Rob Slattery, former Brooklyn, Ohio cop

21
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:36,760
Speaker 1: swat team now private investigator at JAB Investigative Services. That

22
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 1: was a mouthful deputy medical examiner from Travis County, Texas.

23
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 1: That's Austin, the renown doctor Kendall Crowns. But first to

24
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: leave Pagecrimoline dot Com investigative reporter. Let me take this

25
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 1: all in now. It's in South Pasadena, California. Tell me

26
00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,960
Speaker 1: about that. First of all, I understand this isn't a

27
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 1: suburban area tree line streets, the works. Yes, you're correct, Nancy.

28
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: This is in South Pasadena, California. It's about ten miles

29
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: north of Los Angeles. Ten miles north of Los Angeles. Okay,

30
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,519
Speaker 1: for any of you that have lived in LA, as

31
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: we did briefly, that can be light years away, a

32
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 1: whole different way of life. When you think of LA,

33
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 1: you think of Hollywood, the mansions, the stars, the Walk

34
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: of Fame, all of that. But other Californians outside of

35
00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,800
Speaker 1: LA are very quickly are very quickly tell you, well,

36
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 1: we live in northern California, or they differentiate themselves from

37
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 1: LA for a reason. Outside of LA, it's some like

38
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,519
Speaker 1: the suburbs. Tell me somewhere about South Pasadena, Levi. It's

39
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: ten miles out of LA But this occurred in a

40
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,799
Speaker 1: residential area. Yes, it was a residential area. Nancy treelined,

41
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,120
Speaker 1: that looks like a very quiet space neighborhood. And this

42
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,800
Speaker 1: occurred at ten am on November twenty eight. You know,

43
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,519
Speaker 1: just a couple of days after Thanksgiving. You would think

44
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: people would be, you know, happy and in a peaceful mood.

45
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 1: But apparently not ten am. They're right there. I find

46
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,440
Speaker 1: that very interesting to Rob Slattery, licensed PI private detective

47
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: from Brooklyn. You know, Rob, first of all, thank you

48
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 1: for being with us. But if you look at crime stats,

49
00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 1: it's very rare that you see homicides first thing in

50
00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 1: the morning. And I remember, let me just throw out

51
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,040
Speaker 1: maybe there's this triple homicide case I was working, and

52
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 1: this is where I first became aware of this phenomena.

53
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 1: It involved drugs, of course, and drug turf. Three dead

54
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: bodies that we knew of. So I was in a

55
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 1: very high drug and crime area. I could not find

56
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,400
Speaker 1: a single witness. Well, they didn't want to be found.

57
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: But here's what I learned. None of the dopers would

58
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,800
Speaker 1: get up before at least one or two o'clock. It

59
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 1: was like a ghost town. So there was no crime,

60
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 1: no heavy crime in early mornings. Rob, have you ever

61
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 1: noticed that you don't get a lot of homicide calls

62
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,479
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock in the morning. That is very uncharacteristic,

63
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 1: That is correct. It definitely is depending on which I mean,

64
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,560
Speaker 1: Like you stated with the drug world, that is a

65
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 1: late night game, and you just, oh, yeah, you know,

66
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 1: I mean, Rob, when I'm getting up, which is typically

67
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 1: around five o'clock in the morning, they're just going to sleep,

68
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: really exactly. And I remember walking into that apartment complex

69
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: and it was huge, several thousand apartments in that complex.

70
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,600
Speaker 1: There was nobody out and about not even a dog

71
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 1: walking across the playground, I mean nobody. So to get

72
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 1: a HU, a psyche call, or a dead body call

73
00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 1: first thing in the morning is very, very unusual to

74
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crowns, the Deputy Medical exam Er in Travis County, Texas,

75
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 1: which is Austin. Doctor Crowns, I'm sure getting to the

76
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 1: top where you are now in your field, you've had

77
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,920
Speaker 1: to do a lot of late night and morning shifts

78
00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: at the morgue. It's very how often did you say

79
00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: dead bodies rolled in at ten o'clock in the morning,

80
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 1: so it's it's funny the way our schedule works. The

81
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: bodies will come in, but we only work in the

82
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 1: morgue ourselves, the doctors, from eight am to whenever the

83
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: work is done. But I know bodies roll in at

84
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,440
Speaker 1: all times of the day to the medical examiner's office.

85
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 1: They come in anywhere twenty four hours a day, seven

86
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 1: days a week, all times of the day. So twenty

87
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,919
Speaker 1: four seven, three sixty five for you, that's correct. What

88
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 1: is the busiest time for the morgue? I guess you

89
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,760
Speaker 1: guys get bodies that are discovered in the morning that

90
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 1: have been weighing there overnight. Um, you get the leftovers

91
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,360
Speaker 1: from the night's homicidal activity. What's that was the busiest

92
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 1: time at the morgue? Just curious. It's neither here nor

93
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,920
Speaker 1: there in this story, But I want to know the

94
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,160
Speaker 1: busiest time in the morning. I would say it's probably

95
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,960
Speaker 1: a late afternoon when the bodies start getting is found

96
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:30,919
Speaker 1: the most, because you know, the morning. Yeah, yeah, that's

97
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 1: true too, is the drug abusers got to get in

98
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: their sleep, so the people don't start looking for loved

99
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,360
Speaker 1: ones until about twelve o'clock, and then they start making

100
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,600
Speaker 1: calls and they start getting concerned and then that's when

101
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,719
Speaker 1: they start looking for people. It's usually in the afternoon

102
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,719
Speaker 1: is when we start getting our more bodies more often

103
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 1: than not. With me is doctor Kendall Crown's DEFU Medical

104
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 1: and Sandra Travis County, Austin, Texas. Again, I've never really

105
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 1: thought about when a morgue's busy hours are, you know,

106
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 1: like black Friday after Thursday for morgues. What's your busiest

107
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 1: day of the week. I'm just curious. Busiest day of

108
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 1: the week Saturday or Sunday? No, you know, Saturdays, the

109
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 1: weekends can always be busy, but it's often people don't

110
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 1: find the bodies that have been murdered on Saturday and

111
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: Sunday until Monday or Tuesday. So let's say we start

112
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: seeing the bodies pick up around Tuesday. So busiest day

113
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 1: of the week probably midweek when bodies start getting found.

114
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 1: I've been Nobody's never asked you that, have they, Doctor

115
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 1: Kimla Crowns, what's your busy time? Actually it's never occurred

116
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,040
Speaker 1: to meet yell right now because I find it's so

117
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 1: out of the ordinary for a dead body to be

118
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 1: found in these ladies home at ten o'clock in the

119
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 1: morning Climb Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we haven't even

120
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: touched a tip of the iceberg here. Let's get a

121
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 1: call and they respond to a dead body and the

122
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,640
Speaker 1: home of an elderly mom and her two adult daughters.

123
00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,400
Speaker 1: But when they pull up, they hear screaming from the inside.

124
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: Take a listen again to our friend John Limley at

125
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,120
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. Investigators soon learn the man's name,

126
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: He's Justin Goss, and he's in the home of his

127
00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 1: thirty seven year ruled ex girlfriend. After paramedics begin examining him,

128
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 1: they discover Goss has been beaten with a golf club

129
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,439
Speaker 1: and severely wounded with a kitchen knife. It soon emerges

130
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 1: that the assailants are his ex girlfriend's mother and sister.

131
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: But the big question of the moment is why would

132
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,200
Speaker 1: the girlfriend's family attack Goss? Okay, let me try to

133
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: get a visual here, Matt, do you leavipage Crime online

134
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. So the cops arrive, They get

135
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,959
Speaker 1: to this suburban home as you describe it, a tree

136
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 1: line street in Suburbia, California, and they hear screaming from

137
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 1: the inside. They get in, they find a man's dead body.

138
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 1: Explain to me what they observe when they get in

139
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,319
Speaker 1: Levi Well, Nancy. When they first get there they see

140
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 1: that a window has been shattered with a concrete block,

141
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: and then when they get in they find the body

142
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,239
Speaker 1: of forty year old Justin Goss who is from Glendell,

143
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:34,120
Speaker 1: and he is dead. He is pronounced dead at the scene.

144
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 1: He had been stabbed and beaten. You know, it's very interesting.

145
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 1: Back to you, doctor Kendall Crowns. I don't know if

146
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:46,199
Speaker 1: you recall the Jody Arias case where Jody Arias woman

147
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 1: scorned angry because her lover, Travis Alexander had broken up

148
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: with her and was taking another woman on a trip

149
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: to can Kom. She sneaks on a five hour odyssey

150
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,720
Speaker 1: drive to his home. They have a marathon sex session

151
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 1: all all day long. Then when he still refuses to

152
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 1: change the cancoun date, she stabs him we believe twenty

153
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 1: nine time and caps it off with a gunshot wound

154
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 1: to the head. Medical examiners have told me, you can't

155
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,720
Speaker 1: be sure how many stab wounds there are because there's

156
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,680
Speaker 1: so many. They start overlapping each other in the frenzy

157
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 1: of the stabbing, this guy, Justin Goss, just forty years old,

158
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: has been beaten to a pulp with a golf club

159
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 1: and stabbed multiple times. Doctor, how can you even tell

160
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 1: what the COD was? Well, I mean the COD is

161
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: going to be a combination of the blunt force trauma

162
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 1: and the stab wounds. That's not too hard to figure out.

163
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know they were stabbed, they were beaten,

164
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,240
Speaker 1: so you can combine those two together. And if with

165
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 1: the beating, if there's no blood associated with any of

166
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 1: the blunt force injury wounds, then you know they probably

167
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: occurred after death. But you can still figure out the

168
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,200
Speaker 1: cause of death. But as far as the wounds, yeah,

169
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: sometimes when there's a multiple, multiple wounds overlapping commingled, it

170
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 1: can be difficult to sort them all out and get

171
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,840
Speaker 1: a good exact number of how many stabs there were,

172
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,959
Speaker 1: how many blunt for his trauma entries there were? And

173
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,200
Speaker 1: joining me to announce psychiatrist doctor Angela Arnold from the

174
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,880
Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie, I recall a specific case where

175
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: a beautiful young woman and her father, who was a

176
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 1: former FBI agent, murdered her husband and the dad, the

177
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,960
Speaker 1: FBI agent dad, as I recall beat him with a

178
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: Louisville slug or baseball bat. Now, I'm just a JD.

179
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:53,679
Speaker 1: You're the MD, you're the psychiatrist. I think there's special

180
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 1: significance when a person is murdered by swinging a bat

181
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,640
Speaker 1: or swinging a golf club at them. I completely finger

182
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: on it, but I bet you know there's so much.

183
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 1: It's every bit of anger and hatred is coming out

184
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 1: through that baseball bat. Everything they felt towards that person

185
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: is coming out, the fear, the rage, and once you

186
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: get started, it's like you can't stop. So everything that's

187
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 1: been building up inside of that person is coming out

188
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 1: through swinging that fat and you're seeing the extreme the

189
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,839
Speaker 1: level of hatred or fear or whatever that they feel

190
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: towards that person is coming out through that. Nancy. It's

191
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: not a mental disorder. It's just severe rage and hatred

192
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 1: getting beat out of that person. Now, I'm trying to

193
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,120
Speaker 1: remember the name of a movie, Doctor Angela Arnold. It's

194
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 1: in black and white, and oh it's arsenic and old lace.

195
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: It just hit me. You see that Jacko, Okay where

196
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 1: it's a little old lady, I mean little old lady

197
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 1: and she I think it was with tea. Wasn't she

198
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,559
Speaker 1: killing people with tea and arsening that you just put

199
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:13,320
Speaker 1: them wherever? Yes? Can you imagine when the police get

200
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 1: there and they see a little old lady and her

201
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: two adult daughters just standing there and a dead body

202
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:24,760
Speaker 1: bludgeoned with a golf club and stabbed dead. I mean,

203
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 1: it's just if the I is checking the mind because

204
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 1: that doesn't go together. A little old lady and dead

205
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,680
Speaker 1: bludgeoned body. Well, I think what does go together is Nancy.

206
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:41,560
Speaker 1: Something is behind that rage that they felt towards this person. Okay, yeah,

207
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 1: why I think I would agree with that. I was

208
00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 1: expecting a little more because you are, in fact an MD,

209
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,800
Speaker 1: pretty well known MD, and a shrink. But I'll circle

210
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:52,920
Speaker 1: back to that in a moment. For right now, take

211
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 1: a listen to Mark Mester at KTLA five Now to

212
00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: a domestic dispute that turned deadly in South pass A

213
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: d Investigators say it all started when an ex boyfriend

214
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 1: used a brick to break into the home on five

215
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,520
Speaker 1: Oaks Drive this morning and attack and a strange girlfriend.

216
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,760
Speaker 1: But when her mom and sister heard that commotion, they

217
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 1: jumped in, beating the man with a golf club and

218
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: then stabbing him. Responding deputies say they could still hear

219
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,360
Speaker 1: the fight as they were arriving. The suspect, though died

220
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,880
Speaker 1: at the scene. Based on the circumstances, you know, the

221
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: guy comes into a brick, breaks the front window to

222
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 1: the house, comes in, He's attacking, He's choking and punching

223
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,440
Speaker 1: the victim on top of her. Well, that man has

224
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,080
Speaker 1: only been identified by deputies as a white man in

225
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 1: his forties. Now. The woman who was attacked was hospitalized

226
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: had to be treated for some facial injuries, but has

227
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,000
Speaker 1: since been released. Exactly what led up to the attack, though,

228
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 1: that's still being investigated. To Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina, family

229
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,160
Speaker 1: lawyer and I always marvel at that, Kathleen, that is

230
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 1: called family lawyer because that makes me think like a

231
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 1: Christmas card or a happy family together around the dinner table.

232
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,640
Speaker 1: Kathleen an NC Domestic law dot Com. It is down

233
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,480
Speaker 1: and dirty. That's what family law is. How many times

234
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: have you seen domestic issues end up in a homicide?

235
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:19,120
Speaker 1: So I am fortunate I've only seen about three or four,

236
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,280
Speaker 1: but I know that's pretty good number. Kathleene. I mean,

237
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what world you're living yet. But most

238
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 1: people have not seen four dead bodies outside of a

239
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,240
Speaker 1: visit to the funeral home. Okay, so that's just something

240
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,160
Speaker 1: we can think about. Tell you what those people's fear was.

241
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,080
Speaker 1: Their fear was the court system. So they beat the

242
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:39,600
Speaker 1: heck out of this guy because they didn't want to

243
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 1: have to deal with the crazy court system that a

244
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 1: lot of domestic violence victims have to be a part of.

245
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, Kathleen, I don't know that they were

246
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 1: afraid of a judge, a frail old judge up on

247
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 1: the beach, some political appointee. I think they were more

248
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 1: afraid of the fact that they heard the window breaking

249
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:02,480
Speaker 1: in the early morning hours. Take a listen to Kathy

250
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 1: Very KNBC and Mark Costs. The Robels. Police say Justin

251
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 1: Goss of Glendale assaulted the woman after breaking into his

252
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend South Pasadena home yesterday. Winds up stabbed to death.

253
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 1: That woman's mother and sister then tried to stop the

254
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 1: attack with a golf club, beat him, and then he

255
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: was stabbed during the struggle. Goss was pronounced dead at

256
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 1: the scene. The victim is recovering for facial injuries. Crime

257
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace We're talking about a forty year

258
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: old man that definitely should have known better and thing

259
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 1: this through Kathleen Murphy. They're not even married. It's not

260
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 1: like they've got to divide children and property. They just

261
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: have to break up and stop calling each other. So

262
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: if it was that yeah, if it was only that simple.

263
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:10,159
Speaker 1: But here all this over a romance. They're just boyfriend girlfriend.

264
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 1: I see it all the time. They just cannot control themselves.

265
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: And this guy clearly has a mental health disability. He

266
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 1: clearly was probably under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

267
00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,679
Speaker 1: That's absolutely not true because I've been in court a

268
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,439
Speaker 1: million times. Let's see a one hundred new cases a

269
00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: week times four, that's four hundred a month times twelve.

270
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,720
Speaker 1: That's blah blah blah times ten years. Oh. No, domestic

271
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 1: violence does not depend on the perp being drunk or high.

272
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold is very rare that I dare to

273
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 1: take on Kathleen Murphy, But having worked at the Battered

274
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:59,120
Speaker 1: Women's Center for nine years at night plus prosecuting all

275
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 1: day long, the prop doesn't have to be drunk or

276
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: high to me a domestic abuser. They also don't have

277
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 1: to be mentally ill because there are people I believe

278
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: that that is mentally ill people a bad name. There

279
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 1: are people that are just evil. There are books written

280
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: about how people are just at their core evil, Nancy.

281
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 1: So these people have this guy breaks into the house,

282
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: he does such it's such a drastic act. Breaks into

283
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 1: a house ex girlfriend, you know he's coming to do

284
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 1: her harm. The whole thing is, the whole thing is

285
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 1: just fraught with rage. Everything. Everybody has so much rage

286
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 1: towards each other. I'm telling you, Nancy, this man was

287
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 1: just pure evil. The reality is of all the cases

288
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: I prosecuted are all the women I spoke with on

289
00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 1: the domestic the batter Woman's hotline. Very rarely is anybody

290
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: high or mainly illed the purp. Sometimes they've been drinking,

291
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 1: but drugs and alcohol is no excuse. It is a

292
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 1: syndrome that battered women syndrome. And what that is is

293
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: the abuser, typically the male, but can be a woman,

294
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 1: wants power over the victim and they will beat them,

295
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 1: intimidate them. I had a woman with a PhD that

296
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: every morning when her husband left her work hid yank.

297
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,880
Speaker 1: I'd take the phones with him in the car trunk

298
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 1: and beat her. If she left the house. She had

299
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 1: a PhD. Educated, could have done anything in the world.

300
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 1: She had three children with him, so she wanted them

301
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: to have a home life. That was some home life, right.

302
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is it is a calculated and

303
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: controlled cycle where you beat an attack, then you try

304
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: to make up with the victim. That's called the honeymoon

305
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 1: in face. Or you're nice, you might bring flowers, you

306
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: might bring home dinner, you behave for a couple of weeks,

307
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: and the tension starts, building, building, building, and bam, another

308
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: attack and then it goes over and over and over

309
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 1: and over. Well, I'll tell you what I would not

310
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: want to say this Grandma come down the hall at

311
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 1: me with a golf club. I know that much. Take

312
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: listen to John Limley crime Online. Paramedics soon determined that

313
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: forty year old Justin Goss is dead from injuries received

314
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 1: when his ex girlfriend's mother and sister attacked him with

315
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 1: a kitchen knife and a golf club. The two women

316
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 1: explained to police that they and the ex girlfriend had

317
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,399
Speaker 1: been startled by the sound of a large concrete paver

318
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: smashing through a front window of the house. Moments later,

319
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: Goss breaks into the house and begins attacking his ex girlfriend,

320
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 1: choking and punching her in the face. That's when the

321
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: ex's mother and sisters step in to save their loved one.

322
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 1: They try and pull Goss off of the thirty seven

323
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: year old victim, but that didn't work. He was simply

324
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: too strong for them. The two women hit Goss over

325
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: the head with a golf club and then stabbed him

326
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: several times. Can you imagine that the scene? Rob Slattery,

327
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: licensed PI, former Brooklyn Police officer now at JAB Investigative Services.

328
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: These three ladies are asleep, one being an old grandma.

329
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: They're asleep in the home, two adult women, and they

330
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: hear a cement paver, a big hunt of concrete smashing

331
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: through a front window of the house right there. Rob,

332
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: that tells me a lot. This guy was not afraid,

333
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: not worried who saw him, not worried who heard him

334
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: at the front of the house. He was so arrogant

335
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: and so hell bit on getting to his ex girlfriend.

336
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: That's all he cared about. No sneaking and no climbing

337
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: through the window. He went in like a bull in

338
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: a china shop. He didn't care he saw or heard him. Rob,

339
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: that's correct, And I actually did a Google Earth search

340
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: of this street, five Oaks. There's a total of twelve

341
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: houses on this street. They're all right on top of

342
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: each other. Most of them have main windows right in

343
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 1: front of the home. I see why he chose that

344
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: as a point of entrance. But he was there to

345
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 1: do harm and force his will on his ex girlfriend.

346
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: And he didn't care. He didn't care about being thought,

347
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: He didn't care about anything. I mean, he had one

348
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: goal and it was to just terrorize her, and he

349
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: paid the ultimate price for attempting this. You mean like

350
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,360
Speaker 1: a big picture window, you know that style where there's

351
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: a big window in the front. Okay, most of the

352
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 1: homes do, I could see that. Take a listen again

353
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: to John Limley. Justin Goss is dead after being hit

354
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: over the head with a golf club and stabbed with

355
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: a kitchen knife. He's lying on the floor of his

356
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend's house after being subdued by the ex's mom

357
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: and adults sister, who stepped in to stop Goss's attack

358
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 1: on their loved one. The mother and sibling emerge unscathed,

359
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: but Goss's ex has been hurt. She's rushed to a

360
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: nearby hospital. With injuries to the face and is soon released.

361
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: To protect the X and her family, along with the

362
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: integrity of the investigation, police are not releasing the names

363
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: of the three women involved. You know, I'm just thinking

364
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: about the seemingly superhuman power this guy had that two

365
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: adults were trying to pull him off the victim, the

366
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: domestic violence victim, the sister, and they couldn't, Doctor Kendall Crown's,

367
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin, Doctor Crowns.

368
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard those stories about, for instance, a

369
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: mom picking up a car off of her child or

370
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: similar stories for seemingly superhuman strength occurs at a critical moment.

371
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: What is that? Yeah, I have heard those stories. I

372
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: believe it's like an adrenaline response. The individual is so

373
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: full of the adrenaline that they can perform an action

374
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: that they normally couldn't perform. But I don't know specifically

375
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: the exact science on it, but I believe it isn't

376
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: so happy. I finally stumped you. I've never asked you

377
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: a question you didn't have an answer to. I've heard

378
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: the adrenalineically, I did have an answer. You did have

379
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: an answer Okay, I don't know that a medical examiner

380
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: would use technicalities. I leave that to my legal brethren.

381
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: But yes, the adrenaline rush. No matter how hard these

382
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: two adult women try to pull him off the victim

383
00:24:49,080 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: and they couldn't. Hence the beating and the stabbing Crime

384
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace Guys, a domestic violence case turns

385
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: deadly when police arrived to find a man beaten with

386
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: a golf club and stabbed dead, ostensibly by a little

387
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: old lady and her daughter. Take a listen to this.

388
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: South Pasadena police are still investigating what led to the

389
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: incident on five Oaks Drive that resulted in the death

390
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: of forty year old Justin Goss. Detectives know that Goss

391
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: was attacked with a golf club and kitchen knife after

392
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: he broke into the home of his ex girlfriend. Police

393
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: say that if not for the swift thinking and action

394
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: of the ex's mother and adult sister, the story could

395
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: have had a completely different outcome. As authorities continue looking

396
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: into the case, they ask anyone with information to call

397
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: them at three two three eight nine zero five five

398
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: zero zero. That's three two three eight nine zero fifty

399
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: five hundred can also reach them by calling nine one

400
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: one from anywhere in the country. You know that's concerning

401
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: to me because you hear South Pasadena police are still investigating.

402
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: Does that mean now this the low grandma and her

403
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: adult daughter could be charged and the death of forty

404
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 1: year old Justin Goss after he breaks in and begins

405
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: attacking the daughter. The sister, Well, it's happened before. Take

406
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: a listen to our new cut number five. This is

407
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: ABC News. A frantic father called it nine one after

408
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: finding a farmhand. He sues Flores allegedly sexually assaulting his

409
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: little girl. The Lavaca County District Attorney's office released the

410
00:26:45,920 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: dramatic call Okay, I'm glad, I'm going the nailhi on

411
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: audio is just part of the evidence presented to a

412
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: Lavaca County grand jury who chose not to indict the father.

413
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: District Attorney Heather mcmihn tells us why and under the

414
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: law in the state of Texas, deadly forth course is

415
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: authorized and justified in order to stop and aggravated sexual

416
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: assault or a sexual assault. All the evidence that was

417
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: presented by the Sheriff's Department and by the Texas Rangers

418
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: indicated that that was in fact what was occurring when

419
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: the victim's father arrived at the scene. Thank god, in

420
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: that case, the dad was not indicted, but if you

421
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: listen carefully, you hear that he was actually taken to

422
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: a grand jury. A grand jury heard the case with

423
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: a possible indictment after the father finds the purp raping

424
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: his little girl in the act and kills him. That

425
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: is by far not the only example. Take a listen

426
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: to our new cut number seven. This is from my

427
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: Ole Home Court TV. Ducette, a karate instructor, had abducted

428
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: eleven year old Jodie Plochet several weeks earlier and taken

429
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: him to California. When Jody was rescued and returned to

430
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: his family, his father, Gary was coping with reports that

431
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: Dussette had sexually assaulted his son. We didn't know what

432
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: to do. You just feel helpless. Ten days later, when

433
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: the police flew Ducette back to face trial, Gary Plochet

434
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: was waiting with a gun. As a suspect came through

435
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: the airport already, my camera raced it up to get

436
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: a close up shot of him. As I got a

437
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: close up shot, and as he got parallel to me,

438
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: Gary Cloche shoots and that's right, Gary Pluchet shoots dad,

439
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: his son's alleged molester. That is a case that sticks

440
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: in everyone's mind. And then the dad faces charges straight

441
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: out to our guests on that case. Do you remember

442
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: that case, Kathleen Murphy, I remember it very well. I

443
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: remember it very well too. And there but by the

444
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: grace of God, Joe, I can see in that case,

445
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 1: Gary Pluche lay in wait. And to you again, Kathleen Murphy,

446
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: the fact that he laid in wait waiting for the

447
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: karate instructor to get off of the plane. I believe

448
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: it's why he was investigated in the murder of Jeff d.

449
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: Jay and as he should be, because we don't do

450
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: vigilante justice, well, I mean it would be our have

451
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: a difference between the vigilante justice and in our present case,

452
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: the self defense and protection of a victim in an

453
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: immediate subcircumstances. In that case, Gary Pluche, just thirty nine

454
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: years old, was indicted by a grand jury and actually

455
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: goes to trial because she shot the karate instructor. In

456
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: this case, we know that the investigation is on going

457
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: straight out to doctor Kendall Crowns I'm trying to determine

458
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: how the forensic evidence would play into the investigation, because

459
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: I don't want these women charged. What would you look

460
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: for not only on the victim's body, dad, the dead

461
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: guy's body, but on the other women to determine if

462
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: there was any defensive wounds? Explain? So, usually a medical

463
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: examiner doesn't evaluate the living, but you can. Usually defensive

464
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: wounds are typically an individuals where they're trying to protect

465
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: their bodies, so you're seeing them on the hands, on

466
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: the forearms, even on the legs and feet. What you

467
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: would look for on the individual it's it's it's killed,

468
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 1: is he's going to have sensive wounds where he's trying

469
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: to block the golf club, per se or the knife.

470
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: But still in that situation, it's I'm not one hundred

471
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: percent sure if there would be much of a discussion

472
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: of what were his defensive wounds or not. But I

473
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: was really thinking about the women because we know the

474
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: female victim had so many injuries to her face that

475
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: she was taken to the hospital. Yeah, so if she

476
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: did not pass away, the medical examiners wouldn't necessarily evaluate

477
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: that individual. That would be something more for the investigation,

478
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: investigate agencies like the police department, we wouldn't take care

479
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: of the living. To doctor Angela Arnolds Psychiatrists joining us

480
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela, one of your

481
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: specialties is treating women. What are your thoughts on the case.

482
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: My thought, Nancy, is that this woman to the ex girlfriend,

483
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: had most likely been so terrorized about this man and

484
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: had let her family know about it, and there was

485
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: never anything they could do about it. That is what

486
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: my thought is. And then here he comes, like you said,

487
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: it builds up in him, and here he comes again,

488
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: and this time he's going to kill her. But they

489
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: were ready for it. They were all and not in

490
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: a bad way. I mean, Nancy, this family has had

491
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: to hear this poor woman talk about what he has

492
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: done to her, and I'll tell you something else to do, Nancy.

493
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: It took her a long time to talk about it.

494
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: People don't just just start talking about how awful a

495
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: person treats them, because first, these people pull you in,

496
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: like you said, And I'm sorry that I always use

497
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: this personality diagnosis, but it all stems from narcissistic personality disorder.

498
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: It always goes narcissistic personality disorder. First of all, that

499
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: is not a little illness, It is a personality disorder.

500
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 1: And when you're dealing with the narcissist, narcissists have very

501
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: low self esteems, but they come at you as if

502
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: as if they're the greatest person on the face of

503
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: the arch. Every grandiose in their presentation and when they

504
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: first pick out their their prey, right, Okay, they're wonderful.

505
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: To the woman, it's rob at first sight. She's never

506
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: met anybody like this, And oh how quickly it changes,

507
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold. But the victim still believes there is

508
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: a chance that it could go back to the way

509
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: it was before, so they endure the abuse, hoping things

510
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: will turn around, which they rarely do. Domestic Abuse Hotline

511
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: eight hundred seven nine nine Safe eight hundred seven nine

512
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: nine seven two three three and announcement. We recently covered

513
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: the case of a young girl who went missing in

514
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: two thousand and one, Alyssa Turney. When we covered the case,

515
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: Elyssa's sister, Sarah did not speak with us, we used

516
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: her prior statements she made on her own podcast, Voices

517
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: for Justice, hosted and produced by her Sarah Turney, the

518
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: case is coming to trial. I want to make it

519
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: very clear, in no way did Elyssa's sister Sarah speak

520
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: with us prior to trial or provide us with the

521
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: sound clip. We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy Grace's crime Story,

522
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,