WEBVTT - Arrested Democracy, Part 2

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<v Speaker 1>Call Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>When we left off last week, Walter Francis Fitzpatrick I

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<v Speaker 2>had been taken into custody outside the Monroe County Courthouse

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<v Speaker 2>in Madisonville, Tennessee, on April first, twenty ten. Fitzpatrick barged

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<v Speaker 2>into a closed grand jury proceeding and attempted to place

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<v Speaker 2>Monroe County grand Jury Foreman Gary Petway under citizen's arrest.

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<v Speaker 2>Fitzpatrick had written up his own arrest warrant, charging Petway

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<v Speaker 2>with obstruction of justice for his refusal to issue an

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<v Speaker 2>indictment against Barack Obama for treason. Walter Fitzpatrick did not

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<v Speaker 2>have the authority to draw up his own arrest warrants

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<v Speaker 2>any more than a county court in hour south of

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<v Speaker 2>Knoxville had the authority to indict the president on a

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<v Speaker 2>federal crime. But none of that really mattered to the

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<v Speaker 2>small crowd of supporters outside, who were sure that they

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<v Speaker 2>were closer than ever to arresting the president. Darren Huff,

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<v Speaker 2>an oathkeeper from Georgia, was among those supporters. He was

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<v Speaker 2>standing by with his video camera, hoping to capture Fitzpatrick's

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<v Speaker 2>victory against the corrupt county grand jury.

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<v Speaker 3>You have been notified you've been told mister Petway has

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<v Speaker 3>just been placed under citizens arrest.

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<v Speaker 4>My name is Walter Fitzpatrick.

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<v Speaker 3>I have just placed mister Petway under citizens arrest.

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<v Speaker 2>But when the doors opened again, it was not Gary

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<v Speaker 2>Petway who was being escorted out by the Sheriff's deputies.

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<v Speaker 2>It was Walter Fitzpatrick.

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<v Speaker 5>They were leaving those or why because you just interrupted

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<v Speaker 5>a court proceeding.

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<v Speaker 4>The rest of us would get arrested for that. However,

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<v Speaker 4>all of you, thank you're special.

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<v Speaker 5>So now we're leaving the courthouse and then what then

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<v Speaker 5>you're free to go Otherwise you're going to get arrested

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<v Speaker 5>to afree to come back in No.

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<v Speaker 1>Sir, and he could have just left.

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<v Speaker 2>As the deputy points out, he's kind of being treated

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<v Speaker 2>with kid gloves here. He's already broken the law, but

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<v Speaker 2>nobody really wants to deal with this old crank and

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<v Speaker 2>his fan club.

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<v Speaker 1>But instead of leaving, Fitzpatrick pivoted.

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<v Speaker 2>Now he's placing the sheriff himself under arrest. In the

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<v Speaker 2>audio recording, you can hear the deputy sigh dramatically as

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<v Speaker 2>Fitzpatrick begins reading the officers their rights and they realize

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<v Speaker 2>that the only way Fitzpatrick is leaving the building is

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<v Speaker 2>in handcuffs.

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<v Speaker 1>Fitzpatrick was charged.

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<v Speaker 2>With interfering with a grand jury, resisting arrest, and inciting

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<v Speaker 2>a riot. He was held in the county jail over

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<v Speaker 2>the weekend, during which time he reportedly refused to eat

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<v Speaker 2>or drink, and was offered a fifteen hundred dollars bond

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<v Speaker 2>on the condition that he undergo a psychiatric evaluation. On

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<v Speaker 2>April seven, the day after Fitzpatrick was released, Darren Huff

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<v Speaker 2>made the drive from his home in Georgia back up

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<v Speaker 2>to Madisonville. In a text message Huff sent a friend

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<v Speaker 2>on his way home that night, he said he'd spent

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<v Speaker 2>the day meeting with Fitzpatrick going over the plan. They

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<v Speaker 2>were coordinating with multiple groups to show up for what

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<v Speaker 2>Huff called Phase two. When Walter Fitzpatrick appeared for his

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<v Speaker 2>court date on April twentieth, he wasn't going to be alone.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Molly Conger and this is weird, little guys. This

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<v Speaker 2>episode is about Darren Huff. I mean, the last episode

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<v Speaker 2>was supposed to be about Darren Huff. Was the story

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<v Speaker 2>I sat down to write in the first place, But

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<v Speaker 2>my vague recollection of the story of some oathkeeper with

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<v Speaker 2>a hair brain scheme to citizens arrest and entire county

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<v Speaker 2>court turned up something a little more complicated that keeps happening.

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<v Speaker 2>It turns out history is always a little messy. No

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<v Speaker 2>one is really the sole protagonist in their own story.

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<v Speaker 2>Life doesn't really work that way. But if you listened

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<v Speaker 2>to last week's episode, now you have some contexts for

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<v Speaker 2>the baffling confidence Walter Fitzpatrick and Darren Huff seemed to

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<v Speaker 2>have in their plan. They'd both been completely swept up

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<v Speaker 2>in this nationwide right wing mania of Birtherism, the conspiracy

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<v Speaker 2>theory that Barack Obama was ineligible to serve as the

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<v Speaker 2>president of the United States because he had been born

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<v Speaker 2>in Kenya. Walter Fitzpatrick as bizarre and disconnected from reality

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<v Speaker 2>as his ideas sound. Was far from the only American

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<v Speaker 2>who was barging in to a court clerk's office every

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<v Speaker 2>week to demand something be done about the president's acts

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<v Speaker 2>of treason.

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<v Speaker 1>It was everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone from Chuck Norris to Donald Trump was asking is

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<v Speaker 2>Barack Obama a natural born citizen of.

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<v Speaker 1>The United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Politicians like Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, and Newt Gingrich flirted

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<v Speaker 2>with the idea, walking right up to the line and

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<v Speaker 2>then claiming they'd misspoken or been misunderstood. Minnesota Congresswoman Michelle

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<v Speaker 2>Bachmann said she would proudly produce her own birth certificate.

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<v Speaker 2>Alabama Senator Richard Shelby denied that he'd told a newspaper

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<v Speaker 2>that he'd like to see Barack Obama's birth certificate. Missouri

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<v Speaker 2>Congressman Roy Blunt said he'd been taken out of context

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<v Speaker 2>after telling a reporter that there was no legitimate reason

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<v Speaker 2>for the president not to produce his birth certificate. This

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't something that existed only at the nic fringe of

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<v Speaker 2>political discourse. Mainstream politicians and celebrities were just asking questions,

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<v Speaker 2>never mind the kinds of things their supporters might do

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<v Speaker 2>to try to get answers. So, after an entire year

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<v Speaker 2>of unsuccessfully petitioning his local county grand jury to bring

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<v Speaker 2>charges against Barack Obama, Walter Fitzpatrick was frustrated, and when

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<v Speaker 2>he barged into that courtroom on April first, twenty ten,

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<v Speaker 2>both Keeper Darren Huff and Sovereign Citizen Carl Swenson were

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<v Speaker 2>among those waiting just outside, and after the tables were

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<v Speaker 2>turned that day with this citizen's arrest turning into just

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<v Speaker 2>a citizen getting arrested. Darren Huff and Carl Swenson vowed

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<v Speaker 2>to return not just to support their friend at his

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<v Speaker 2>next court date, but to carry out a bigger, better

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<v Speaker 2>version of the plan.

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<v Speaker 6>You who have been on the fence must get off

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<v Speaker 6>of that fence. Please go to the courthouse in mass

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<v Speaker 6>and demand justice. He is honoring his oath. To all

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<v Speaker 6>of you out there who have taken that oath, I

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<v Speaker 6>ask you right now to honor yours. Get down there,

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<v Speaker 6>get him out of jail, and make sure that justice

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<v Speaker 6>has served. My name is CARLS. Winston.

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<v Speaker 1>The call was put out.

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<v Speaker 2>If you believe in the cause, if you believe in

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<v Speaker 2>the constitution, you must stand with Walter Fitzpatrick against the

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<v Speaker 2>Monroe County courts. He was scheduled to appear on April twentieth,

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<v Speaker 2>and true patriots had an obligation to be there. Between

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<v Speaker 2>Fitzpatrick's release on the sixth and his court date on

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<v Speaker 2>the twentieth, they had just two weeks to prepare, according

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<v Speaker 2>to the court records. Darren Huff appeared in several videos

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<v Speaker 2>about the events in Madisonville that were posted on Carl

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<v Speaker 2>Swinson's website Rise Upfroamerica dot com. Archived pages of that

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<v Speaker 2>site do still exist, and I can read the text

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<v Speaker 2>on those pages, but the videos were all embedded with

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<v Speaker 2>flash Player. So Darren's calls to action maybe lost to

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<v Speaker 2>the sands of time. But we have some pretty solid

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<v Speaker 2>sources that can give us an idea of what was

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<v Speaker 2>on Darren's mind during those two weeks, because Darren Huff

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<v Speaker 2>has never once in his life shut his goddamn mouth.

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<v Speaker 2>On April fifteenth, Darren Huff stopped at the Chase Bank

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<v Speaker 2>in Hiram, Georgia.

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<v Speaker 1>He ran a.

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<v Speaker 2>Small business doing outdoor lighting, so he stopped by often

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<v Speaker 2>to deposit checks. According to Erica, the bank teller who

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<v Speaker 2>testified at his trial, most of the employees at the

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<v Speaker 2>branch knew him well enough to make friendly conversation, but

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<v Speaker 2>if she was working, he would wait in her line

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<v Speaker 2>even if another teller was free. But that evening he

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't making his usual jokes.

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<v Speaker 1>He was deadly serious.

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<v Speaker 2>Erica testified that Huff just launched right into telling her

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<v Speaker 2>about Walter Fitzpatrick and his upcoming trial in Madisonville, Tennessee,

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<v Speaker 2>a situation she had no context, for she'd never heard

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<v Speaker 2>of Walter Fitzpatrick, and she'd never been to Madisonville, Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 2>She was the only teller at the counter. The bank

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<v Speaker 2>was about to close for the night, and suddenly this

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<v Speaker 2>normally friendly customer is leaning over the counter telling her

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<v Speaker 2>that he was going to be spending this weekend mounting

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<v Speaker 2>an anti aircraft gun to the back of his pickup

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<v Speaker 2>truck because he and his militia were going to take

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<v Speaker 2>over a small town in Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 1>On Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 2>A conversation got so intense that another employee went to

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<v Speaker 2>go get the manager, Shane. In his testimony at trial,

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<v Speaker 2>Shane too said that Huff was a regular customer at

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<v Speaker 2>the bank, and over the years he'd gotten to know

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<v Speaker 2>him a bit. Sometime in two thousand and nine, Huff

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<v Speaker 2>got really political, and when he made small talk with

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<v Speaker 2>the bank tellers, it was usually about his anti government

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<v Speaker 2>beliefs and various conspiracy theories. So when another employee came

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<v Speaker 2>to get him that night because Huff was making Erica uncomfortable,

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<v Speaker 2>he probably wasn't surprised. He tried guiding the conversation back

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<v Speaker 2>to safer territory, asking Huff if he'd be taking his

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<v Speaker 2>video camera with him again on this trip, but the

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<v Speaker 2>response was an alarming one. Huff told him it would

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<v Speaker 2>be kind of hard to hold the camera because he

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<v Speaker 2>planned to be quote on the front line with two

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<v Speaker 2>Ak forty sevens. He told the bank employees that they'd

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<v Speaker 2>probably see him on the news next week, and as

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<v Speaker 2>he was leaving, he told Erica, it was nice knowing you.

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<v Speaker 2>If I never see you again. Not to get ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of myself, but do you want to jump ahead here

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<v Speaker 2>and say Darren Huff would later accuse those two bank

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<v Speaker 2>employees of lying under oath. Obviously, there's no proving what

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<v Speaker 2>was or wasn't said at the bank that evening, But

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<v Speaker 2>within hours of that interaction, Erica was on the phone

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<v Speaker 2>with Madisonville, Tennessee, Police Chief Greg Breeden, and he recorded

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<v Speaker 2>that phone call, so we have a fairly contemporaneous recollection

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<v Speaker 2>of what was said. She related to Chief Breeden that

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<v Speaker 2>Huff told her that he was intending to travel to Madisonville, Tennessee,

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<v Speaker 2>on April twentieth for Walter Fitzpatrick's court hearing, that he

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<v Speaker 2>would be armed with AK forty seven's and an anti

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<v Speaker 2>aircraft gun, that he would be with other militia members,

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<v Speaker 2>and that the group intended to carry out citizens arrests

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<v Speaker 2>of various local officials and seize control of the courthouse.

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<v Speaker 2>And Darren Huff was found to be in possession of

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<v Speaker 2>printed copies of those citizens arrest warrants, and he would

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<v Speaker 2>later admit under oath that at that time he was

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<v Speaker 2>in possession of an anti aircraft gun and a pedestal

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<v Speaker 2>mount that could be installed in the bed of his truck.

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<v Speaker 1>She would have had no way.

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<v Speaker 2>Of knowing any of that at the time if he

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<v Speaker 2>hadn't told her himself, and she's on tape reporting it

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<v Speaker 2>to the police long before she could have read anything

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<v Speaker 2>in the news or been coached by an FBI agent

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<v Speaker 2>to say these things. Both Shane and Erica were understandably

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<v Speaker 2>deeply unsettled by that interaction. Immediately after leaving work that evening,

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<v Speaker 2>Erica called a friend who worked in local government, who

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<v Speaker 2>helped her find the phone number for the Madisonville, Tennessee

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<v Speaker 2>Police Department. Jane's wife urged him to call their own

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<v Speaker 2>sheriff in Paulding County, Georgia, and by the end of

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<v Speaker 2>the night, both bank employees had shared their concerns with

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<v Speaker 2>the police and by Monday they'd met with FBI agents.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was on Monday, April nineteenth, the day before

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<v Speaker 2>the planned occupation of Madisonville, Tennessee, that an FBI agent

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<v Speaker 2>knocked on Darren Huff's front door. Supervisory Special Agent Charles Reid,

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<v Speaker 2>accompanied by a couple of deputies from the Paulding County

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<v Speaker 2>Sheriff's Office, just wanted to have a word with him,

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<v Speaker 2>and Darren Huff voluntarily stepped out onto his front porch

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<v Speaker 2>and he chatted with the agent for about as long

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<v Speaker 2>as it took him to finish a cigarette. It was

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<v Speaker 2>a brief conversation. Agent Reid recalls that Huff was pretty

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<v Speaker 2>open about his plan to drive to Tennessee in the morning.

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<v Speaker 2>He said he'd have his CULT forty five on his

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<v Speaker 2>hip and his AK forty seven was in the truck.

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<v Speaker 2>He freely volunteered to the agent that he was a

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<v Speaker 2>member of both the Oath Keepers and the Georgia Militia.

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<v Speaker 2>He said that the plan was to execute citizens, arrest warrants,

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<v Speaker 2>and quote take back Madisonville, but that the group would

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<v Speaker 2>not resort to violence unless they were provoked. When Darren

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<v Speaker 2>Huff took the stand at his own trial. He recalled,

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<v Speaker 2>telling Agent Read that evening that he'd love it if

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<v Speaker 2>the FBI would be there in Madisonville. Again, remember last

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<v Speaker 2>week that letter that Walter Fitzpatrick sent the police chief

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<v Speaker 2>of Madisonville before all of this got started. He wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>making threats. He was inviting the police to be part

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<v Speaker 2>of his plan. And that's the same mindset Darren has here.

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<v Speaker 2>He even gave the FBI agent his business card. I

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<v Speaker 2>had to double check here because Darren's business cards do

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<v Speaker 2>come up again later, but it sounds like the business

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.440
<v Speaker 2>card he gave Agent Read the night before the big

0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 2>day was just a normal business card, a real one

0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 2>for his outdoor lighting business. It wasn't until after he

0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 2>was arrested that he got new business cards printed that

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>said Darren Huff, right wing extremist and potential domestic terrorist.

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.520
<v Speaker 2>But when he finished his cigarette, the conversation was over.

0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Agent Reid had no reason to arrest him. Huff had

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.720
<v Speaker 2>expressed to him a plan to commit a federal crime,

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 2>the one he would eventually be arrested for, but he

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>hadn't actually done it yet. There was no federal crime

0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 2>here until Darren Huff put his guns in the truck

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:34.120
<v Speaker 2>and drove across the state line from Georgia into Tennessee

0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 2>with the intent to engage in a little civil disorder.

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 2>So Agent Reid left, but another agent stayed nearby all night,

0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.640
<v Speaker 2>watching and waiting for the truck to pull out of

0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the driveway. Darren Huff was under FBI surveillance when he

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.280
<v Speaker 2>hit the road just before dawn on April twentieth, twenty ten,

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 2>fifteen am, he was observed crossing the state line, and

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.640
<v Speaker 2>just after seven am, Tennessee State Trooper Michael Wilson followed

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Huff's truck as he took Exit sixty off I seventy

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:15.080
<v Speaker 2>five towards Madisonville. Whether or not Huff rolled through the

0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.320
<v Speaker 2>stop sign at the bottom of the exit ramp is

0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 2>a matter of some debate, but Trooper Wilson flashed his

0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:26.200
<v Speaker 2>blue lights and pulled him over. This traffic stop ends

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.400
<v Speaker 2>up being central to Huff's case on appeal, but it

0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.760
<v Speaker 2>isn't where he got arrested. He actually didn't even get

0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>a ticket, but Trooper Wilson and Darren Huff spent over

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 2>an hour together there on the shoulder of Tennessee Highway

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.760
<v Speaker 2>sixty eight. When Huff was asked to step out of

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>the vehicle. He had his CULT forty five on his hip.

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 2>The officer unholstered the weapon, removed the magazine, checked the chamber,

0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.520
<v Speaker 2>and put the weapon in his patrol car for safekeeping.

0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Darren Huff produced a valid Georgia driver's license, but he

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.880
<v Speaker 2>didn't have his truck's registration on him. He assured the

0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.399
<v Speaker 2>officer that the gun was legal and handed him a

0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.520
<v Speaker 2>piece of paper that he said was a gun carry permit.

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.480
<v Speaker 2>In his testimony, the troopers said the document looked quote,

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 2>very unprofessional, and he was concerned it might not be real.

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 2>He spent an hour going back and forth with Dispatch

0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 2>about this strange document and was never able to verify

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 2>whether Huff actually had a valid carry permit for that gun.

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 2>And during that hour, while they were trying to sort

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 2>it out, Darren Huff talked. He talked a lot, He

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:46.199
<v Speaker 2>ran his mouth the entire time, and the entire conversation

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:49.880
<v Speaker 2>was recorded on the officer's dash cam, which was connected

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:54.040
<v Speaker 2>to a microphone on his uniform. And in their conversation,

0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 2>Darren explained his whole plan. They had arrest warrants for

0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.879
<v Speaker 2>the Grand jury reforman the district attorney, the sheriff, the judge,

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:08.240
<v Speaker 2>Nancy Pelosi, et cetera. He recommended some YouTube videos the

0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.720
<v Speaker 2>officers should watch to learn more about Barack Obama's crimes,

0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 2>and he told them they needed to be reading Walter

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Fitzpatrick's blog. In the portions of this audio that I

0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 2>could find, the officers seem to be playing along. They're

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:26.439
<v Speaker 2>mostly just letting him talk without interruption, but occasionally they

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 2>asked some questions about how exactly the plan is going

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:35.679
<v Speaker 2>to work, and Darren's happy to explain because he's actually

0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 2>going to need their help.

0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.320
<v Speaker 5>And then at that point they would be placed in

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 5>the custody and you know, turn this man over you.

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.880
<v Speaker 5>I don't have handcuffs, right, you know, somebody we would

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 5>need somebody like you guys there. And I can't tell

0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.280
<v Speaker 5>you how much I appreciate you guys listening.

0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Again, this is exactly like Fitzpatrick's letter to the police chief.

0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.159
<v Speaker 2>He's telling the cops what they plan to do and

0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to get them to be a part of it.

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 2>The audio is a little fuzzy because they're standing on

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the side of the highway in the rain, but he

0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>wants the officers to agree to receive these prisoners once

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>they've been citizens arrested. But that wasn't all. He was

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.879
<v Speaker 2>worried about a lot more than just the corrupt government

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 2>in Monroe County, Tennessee. He shared his concerns about the

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Affordable Care Act, which had just been signed into law.

0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:28.680
<v Speaker 1>A few weeks earlier.

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Of course, he was upset that this was communism, obviously,

0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.720
<v Speaker 2>but more importantly, he was very worried because this law

0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:42.439
<v Speaker 2>requires that all Americans be implanted with the mark of

0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the Beast. As foretold in Revelations.

0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:47.200
<v Speaker 7>Liek.

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.719
<v Speaker 5>Ten eighteen, Jesus said, and I beheld Satan as lightning

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 5>fall from heaven. The Greek translation from lightning is barock.

0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.560
<v Speaker 5>Now jess didn't speak Greek. He spoke Hebrew, so you

0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.240
<v Speaker 5>can look it up into Hebrew. Still barack lat and

0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 5>heaven translates from Hebrew. Who or oh bomber? So Jesus said,

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.720
<v Speaker 5>out of his own lips, I saw Satan as work bomb.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:18.679
<v Speaker 2>He went on to explain that he was opposed to

0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.080
<v Speaker 2>the war in the Middle East, though he notes that

0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 2>he does think quote Muslims suck end quote, but also

0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.800
<v Speaker 2>nine to eleven was an inside job. He tells the officers,

0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:34.160
<v Speaker 2>that they who are all white men, are God's true

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:39.359
<v Speaker 2>chosen people, that Caucasians are the real Israelites, and biblical

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.919
<v Speaker 2>prophecy foretold the re establishment of Israel in seventeen seventy six.

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Remember last week when we touched briefly on Christian identity,

0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.359
<v Speaker 2>That's what this is. Darren Huff is a self proclaimed

0:20:55.560 --> 0:21:00.080
<v Speaker 2>pastor in the Christian identity movement. He's standing there on

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.200
<v Speaker 2>the side of the highway, surrounded by cops, preaching Christian

0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 2>identity and trying to recruit them to.

0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 1>The oath Keepers.

0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.440
<v Speaker 2>It remains very unclear to me why the trooper gave

0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:18.879
<v Speaker 2>Huff his gun back, but he did. At eight thirteen am.

0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.680
<v Speaker 2>He handed Darren Huff a written warning, returned his COLT

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.359
<v Speaker 2>forty five, and told him he was free to go.

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 2>The men shook hands and Huff thanked the officer and

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 2>he took a few steps back toward his truck before

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:39.000
<v Speaker 2>he stopped turned around and said, let me pre warn you,

0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 2>if enough of us show up today, we are going

0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.600
<v Speaker 2>to proceed forward in this citizen's arrest. That's why I

0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 2>have my forty five. Ain't no government official going peacefully?

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 2>And then he slid his Colt forty five back into

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.400
<v Speaker 2>his holster, climbed into his pickup truck that said oath

0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:02.640
<v Speaker 2>keepers all down one side, and drove the last few

0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:21.400
<v Speaker 2>miles into Madisonville, Tennessee. At five o'clock that morning, more

0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 2>than fifty police officers from multiple jurisdictions in and around

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Monroe County, Tennessee, gathered for a briefing. There were FBI

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.919
<v Speaker 2>agents from the Joint Terrace and Task Force and at

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:37.280
<v Speaker 2>least one representative from the Department of Homeland Security. They'd

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.320
<v Speaker 2>been monitoring the online chatter about Walter Fitzpatrick's hearing at

0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.719
<v Speaker 2>the courthouse at nine am, and they were worried. The

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 2>intelligence they had was that as many as six hundred

0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:53.119
<v Speaker 2>people might be on their way to Madisonville, Tennessee. They

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.080
<v Speaker 2>had undercovers stationed in nearby businesses and snipers on rooftops.

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.000
<v Speaker 2>One of those undercover officers was Mike Hall, the director

0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:06.080
<v Speaker 2>of a regional violent crime task force in Tennessee. In

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.600
<v Speaker 2>plain clothes, he got a table at Donna's in Cafe,

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 2>a block from City Hall, where Fitzpatrick's supporters would be

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:16.439
<v Speaker 2>meeting for breakfast. And maybe the police should have known

0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:21.720
<v Speaker 2>that They probably weren't expecting six hundred armed militiamen if

0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.199
<v Speaker 2>they knew that they had booked tables at Donna's cafe.

0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 2>But that's neither here nor there, And by the time

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:34.119
<v Speaker 2>breakfast was over, barely twenty supporters were packed into the

0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:38.080
<v Speaker 2>dining room, finishing their biscuits and coffee as Darren Huff

0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:41.200
<v Speaker 2>gave a rousing speech about taking his AK forty seven

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:46.920
<v Speaker 2>down to the courthouse. Carl Swinson's dead website isn't exactly

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:50.680
<v Speaker 2>easy to navigate, so maybe the whole speech was there

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 2>at some point, but I was only able to dig

0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.960
<v Speaker 2>up an audio file of the first six minutes or so,

0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.240
<v Speaker 2>and it's pretty inspiring stuff.

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:06.240
<v Speaker 3>So as a Christians, as lieutenant commander said, I'm chaplain

0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 3>for the Georgia Militia, so I look at things a

0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.679
<v Speaker 3>little bit differently, and I look at them basically, And

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 3>I told these guys, and I tell everybody, I'm not

0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:15.960
<v Speaker 3>a very smart guy. In fact, the only thing that

0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:18.639
<v Speaker 3>I know about the Constitution are the first few amendments.

0:24:18.880 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 5>Those leave me the hell alone ones.

0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:23.040
<v Speaker 7>That's what I know, and I know them well enough

0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:24.399
<v Speaker 7>to say you're wrong.

0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:25.640
<v Speaker 5>You can't do this.

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Over the sound of clinking forks on plates the Christian

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Identity militia. Chaplin explains that they are preparing for spiritual war,

0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:41.040
<v Speaker 2>that we were already in the end times, as we're

0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 2>told in Revelations see the founding of the United States

0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:50.800
<v Speaker 2>was biblical prophecy. God knew that in seventeen seventy six

0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.919
<v Speaker 2>the thirteen tribes of Israel would be called back together

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:55.399
<v Speaker 2>as the thirteen Colonies.

0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, at thirteen, I know.

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 2>It's twelve, twelve tribes of Israel.

0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:03.080
<v Speaker 1>You know it's twelve.

0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:08.200
<v Speaker 2>But Darren is counting Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manassa separately,

0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's why he thinks it's thirteen. And I know

0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:16.520
<v Speaker 2>that because he mentions Joseph's sons specifically, because otherwise I

0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.280
<v Speaker 2>might have assumed he was talking about something different. We

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.639
<v Speaker 2>don't need to get into the specifics here. But adherents

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 2>of Christian identity believe that they are the real Israelites,

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:32.120
<v Speaker 2>so they have to explain the existence of actual Jews

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.520
<v Speaker 2>some other way, and that usually boils down to a

0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:40.120
<v Speaker 2>theory that Ashkenazi Jews are actually descended from a Turkic

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:46.439
<v Speaker 2>race called the Kasars. Christian identity guys really love this

0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:50.400
<v Speaker 2>book from the seventies called The Thirteenth Tribe, which makes

0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:55.240
<v Speaker 2>the case for this theory. Honestly, please don't make me

0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.640
<v Speaker 2>explain the Kazar hypothesis every time I see a guy

0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:00.639
<v Speaker 2>posting about Kasar's I'm just.

0:26:01.119 --> 0:26:02.160
<v Speaker 1>Not having a good time.

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:07.480
<v Speaker 2>But what Darren was saying might actually be weirder.

0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 5>Jacob went like this, he blessed them the way God

0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:19.440
<v Speaker 5>intended him to bless them. That crossing of the arms.

0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 3>Is on that flag.

0:26:22.480 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 6>That's where that.

0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:24.120
<v Speaker 7>Cross comes from.

0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.439
<v Speaker 3>It has nothing to do with rednecks. It has nothing

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:28.640
<v Speaker 3>to do with the Confederacy.

0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 5>It has everything to do with God's shows people.

0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Now this was a new one for me. I've never

0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 2>heard this one before. What he's saying here is that

0:26:42.080 --> 0:26:50.879
<v Speaker 2>the Confederate flag symbolizes Jacob's blessing of Joseph's sons. I

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know what the aid to be to see here is,

0:26:54.880 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 2>but I guess the Confederacy was the thirteenth Tribe of Israel. Honestly,

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:04.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to know. I don't want to know.

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:09.320
<v Speaker 2>That way lies madness. So after his big speech, Darren

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:14.879
<v Speaker 2>Huff steps outside Mike Hall, our undercover officer testified that

0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:19.120
<v Speaker 2>he overheard Huff's conversation with a man that he doesn't name,

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:24.520
<v Speaker 2>but who, like Huff, was visibly armed, and Huff laments

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:27.360
<v Speaker 2>to this man that he wishes they had more people,

0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:31.240
<v Speaker 2>saying quote, today would be a good day to do

0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 2>it because it's raining and the police wouldn't expect them

0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:38.439
<v Speaker 2>to make a move in the rain. And Darren Huff

0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:41.199
<v Speaker 2>wasn't the only one who excused himself from the table

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>after this speech. Carl Swenson, our sovereign citizen and the

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:50.200
<v Speaker 2>primary instigator of the online uproar calling people to Madisonville,

0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:52.520
<v Speaker 2>got a phone call to make.

0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:57.679
<v Speaker 8>All right, ladies and gentlemen. I'm here with my special

0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:01.080
<v Speaker 8>guest lieuten of Colonel Terry Lagan and his toorney Paul Jensen.

0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:06.520
<v Speaker 8>Colonel Lincoln is the army officer who has challenged the

0:28:07.080 --> 0:28:10.560
<v Speaker 8>legitimacy of Barack Obama to act as commander in chief.

0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:14.719
<v Speaker 8>Also with me is doctor Jerome Corsy and going to

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.080
<v Speaker 8>Tennessee and Carl, Carl, you're on the air.

0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:23.879
<v Speaker 2>That's right, It's Carl and Tennessee And he was live

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:29.679
<v Speaker 2>on air with g. Gordon Liddy and Jerome Corcy. I

0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:31.840
<v Speaker 2>have to admit I spent the better part of an

0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 2>afternoon chasing down this fifteen year old episode of morning

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.520
<v Speaker 2>Talk radio, so I am going to tell you about it.

0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>On April twelfth, twenty ten, US Army Lieutenant Colonel Terry

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Laken did not report for duty at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Instead,

0:28:52.000 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 2>he drove to the Pentagon in Washington, d C. Where

0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>he was read his rights by his commanding officer, Colonel

0:28:57.360 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Ray.

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Roberts.

0:29:00.200 --> 0:29:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Unit deployed to Afghanistan that week without him. The eighteen

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:08.400
<v Speaker 2>year veteran wasn't afraid to return to Afghanistan. This deployment

0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:10.959
<v Speaker 2>would have been the seventh of his career and his

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:14.560
<v Speaker 2>second to Afghanistan. In two thousand and four, he was

0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:18.320
<v Speaker 2>the Army's Flight Surgeon of the year. He'd been awarded

0:29:18.360 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 2>a Meritorious Service Medal and a Bronze Star. He was

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 2>on track to be promoted to full colonel within the

0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:28.120
<v Speaker 2>next year. But he had come to realize that his

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:33.600
<v Speaker 2>deployment orders were unlawful, not on ideological grounds. He wasn't

0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 2>protesting the war. He hadn't suddenly become a peace activist

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.960
<v Speaker 2>after seeing the horrors of war firsthand.

0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 1>No no, the doctor.

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Was refusing to deploy unless he could see the president's

0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:48.680
<v Speaker 2>birth certificate.

0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:53.680
<v Speaker 4>I will disobey my orders to deploy it because I

0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:56.920
<v Speaker 4>and I believe all servicemen and women and the American

0:29:56.960 --> 0:30:01.080
<v Speaker 4>people deserve the truth about President Obama's cont pituitional eligibility

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:04.720
<v Speaker 4>to the Office of the Presidency and the commander in Chief.

0:30:07.440 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 2>A week after disobeying his orders, Lieutenant Colonel Laken appeared

0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 2>as a guest on The G. Gordon Liddy Show. Decades

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:16.960
<v Speaker 2>after dabbling it being an FBI agent doing dirty tricks

0:30:16.960 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 2>for Richard Dixon and spending a little time in prison

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 2>for his role in the Watergate scandal, Lyddy really hit

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 2>his stride as an extremely right wing talk radio host

0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:32.200
<v Speaker 2>who regularly encouraged listeners to do things like shoot federal

0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:36.880
<v Speaker 2>agents in the head. Robert Evans put out a taggering

0:30:37.120 --> 0:30:39.840
<v Speaker 2>six part series of episodes on G. Gordon Liddy on

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Behind the Bastards last year. So if you're interested in

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 2>hearing some outrageously racist clips of Liddy's radio show, I

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 2>believe those are in part six. But today we're just

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 2>talking about one episode of The G. Gordon Liddy Show,

0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:00.360
<v Speaker 2>the one that aired on April twentieth, twenty ten, because

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 2>that's the episode Carl Swenson called into during the second hour.

0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 2>In the first hour of the show, Lyddy interviewed Colonel

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Laken and Lacln's attorney, a California personal injury lawyer named

0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Paul Jensen. You might be wondering why an army officer

0:31:15.880 --> 0:31:20.160
<v Speaker 2>facing a court martial would hire a civilian personal injury lawyer,

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:26.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's a great question. The answer is unclear. In

0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 2>my experience, conspiracy theorists and extremists tend to hire attorneys

0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 2>who share their beliefs rather than ones who have, say,

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:40.480
<v Speaker 2>relevant experience in a particular area of law. But in

0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:44.640
<v Speaker 2>this case, it seems very worth mentioning that Paul Jensen

0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:50.480
<v Speaker 2>was a longtime associate of friend to and occasional attorney

0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:55.600
<v Speaker 2>for Roger Stone. In two thousand and seven, it was

0:31:55.640 --> 0:31:59.360
<v Speaker 2>Paul Jensen, acting as Stone's attorney, who publicly released a

0:31:59.360 --> 0:32:01.680
<v Speaker 2>copy of a left the pair claimed they had sent

0:32:01.720 --> 0:32:06.480
<v Speaker 2>to the FBI about Elliot Spitzer's alleged habit of wearing

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>nothing but long black socks during his liaisons with sex workers.

0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:14.160
<v Speaker 1>And Jensen represented.

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:17.400
<v Speaker 2>Stone in twenty sixteen when he was sued over allegations

0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 2>that he had been involved in a coordinated campaign of

0:32:19.960 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 2>voter intimidation. It was Jensen who drafted the paperwork to

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:27.080
<v Speaker 2>incorporate Stop the Steel in twenty sixteen.

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:30.600
<v Speaker 1>So after this interview, G.

0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Gordon Liddy opened the phones to hear from listeners on

0:32:33.640 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 2>the subject of Barack Obama's birth certificate. Caller after caller

0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:41.480
<v Speaker 2>thanked Colonel Laken for his courage and shared their own

0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:43.720
<v Speaker 2>theories about how they could finally get to the truth

0:32:43.800 --> 0:32:49.200
<v Speaker 2>of Barack Obama's birth. And then, after an advertisement for

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:54.760
<v Speaker 2>gold coins, another berther called into the show, but this

0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:58.440
<v Speaker 2>one wasn't just sitting idly by while Barack Obama pretended

0:32:58.440 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>to be the president.

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:04.760
<v Speaker 7>Lieutenant Colonel, I want to thank you for everything you're

0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:07.400
<v Speaker 7>doing and I want to give you some encouragement. Here.

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 7>I'm in the city of Madisonville, Tennessee right now in

0:33:10.240 --> 0:33:16.480
<v Speaker 7>Monroe County, where they've had this area on lockdown with FBI, TDI,

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:21.640
<v Speaker 7>local police and troopers all because of Lieutenant Commander Walter

0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:26.080
<v Speaker 7>Fitzpatrick and his attempts to affect arrest using a criminal

0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:32.040
<v Speaker 7>complaint against Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi. And in this case,

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:36.920
<v Speaker 7>the grand jury members here in the town of Madison, Tennessee.

0:33:37.400 --> 0:33:42.800
<v Speaker 7>People are gathering now, but it is a tenuous situation

0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:43.360
<v Speaker 7>at best.

0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Carl closed the call by saying things were getting pretty

0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.680
<v Speaker 2>heated out there in Tennessee, and everything they were doing

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 2>was quote indirect support of the message being pushed by

0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Colonel Laken and Lyddy himself. G Gordon lyly asked Carl

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to email the show's producer the video of Darren Huff's

0:34:04.320 --> 0:34:06.040
<v Speaker 2>traffic stop so they could get that up on the

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>website within the hour. The next caller, Julian Texas, was

0:34:10.880 --> 0:34:13.840
<v Speaker 2>very worried about her sons. They were active duty soldiers

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:18.520
<v Speaker 2>deployd overseas. She wasn't worried about them being in the war.

0:34:18.719 --> 0:34:22.160
<v Speaker 2>She was worried that because their deployment orders had been

0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.640
<v Speaker 2>issued by a false president, that they could ultimately be

0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:29.480
<v Speaker 2>liable for war crimes. I didn't listen to the rest

0:34:29.520 --> 0:34:31.759
<v Speaker 2>of the episode. I don't know if they resolved that,

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>but after Darren's rousing speech to the assembled supporters and

0:34:37.040 --> 0:34:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Carl's bold statements on a national radio show, they both

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:45.359
<v Speaker 2>had to admit that nothing was going to happen that day.

0:34:45.440 --> 0:34:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Their little crowd of twenty was outnumbered three to one

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:52.480
<v Speaker 2>by a very visible police presence, and according to Walter

0:34:52.520 --> 0:34:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Fitzpatrick's blog, a fair number of those supporters who turned

0:34:56.160 --> 0:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>up were middle aged women, one of whom brought several

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:03.560
<v Speaker 2>mo her children with her. Darren had a truck full

0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>of guns and was bragging about how he had four

0:35:06.080 --> 0:35:09.239
<v Speaker 2>hundred rounds for his AK forty seven, but they just

0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't have the numbers to do anything that day. The

0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:15.560
<v Speaker 2>only time anybody actually got close to the courthouse was

0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 2>when Darren huffed took a bag of biscuits over to

0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:22.439
<v Speaker 2>a detective on the courthouse steps. By the time Fitzpatrick's

0:35:22.480 --> 0:35:27.080
<v Speaker 2>hearing was over, Darren was bored, he was tired, and

0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:32.200
<v Speaker 2>he's ready to go home. So everybody just left. Nothing happened,

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Nobody got arrested.

0:35:37.960 --> 0:35:38.399
<v Speaker 1>That night.

0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Oath Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes saw the video Carl Swinson

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:45.399
<v Speaker 2>posted online of Darren getting pulled over on his way

0:35:45.400 --> 0:35:50.200
<v Speaker 2>to Madisonville. The truck says oath Keepers all down one

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:53.439
<v Speaker 2>side and huge letters. You really can't miss it. It's

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.879
<v Speaker 2>the official logo of the Oath Keepers, and Rhodes called

0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Swinson immediately and demand did he take the video down.

0:36:02.480 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 2>It was embarrassing, and within days Rhodes himself showed up

0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:10.160
<v Speaker 2>to speak with Darren Huff in person.

0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:12.400
<v Speaker 1>He was furious.

0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:16.319
<v Speaker 2>He demanded to know why Huff was so intent on

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:21.319
<v Speaker 2>making Madisonville the flash point. Now, Rhodes isn't the kind

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:23.400
<v Speaker 2>of guy who's actually concerned about their.

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:26.839
<v Speaker 1>Being a flash point. He wants one.

0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:30.359
<v Speaker 2>That's the whole idea, right, Eventually the militia will come

0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:34.120
<v Speaker 2>into some kind of conflict. But this wasn't the one

0:36:34.120 --> 0:36:39.680
<v Speaker 2>he wanted because he thought Darren's ideas were foolish and embarrassing,

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:46.120
<v Speaker 2>and he revoked Darren's Oathkeeper's membership undeterred though Darren Huff

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:50.080
<v Speaker 2>returned to Tennessee a week later. He had a paper

0:36:50.120 --> 0:36:53.360
<v Speaker 2>map of the state of Tennessee, and he'd circled the

0:36:53.400 --> 0:36:57.319
<v Speaker 2>location of the sheriff's offices in every county within a

0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:01.520
<v Speaker 2>two hour drive of Madisonville. It's not clear how many

0:37:01.520 --> 0:37:04.560
<v Speaker 2>sheriffs he actually managed to speak with, but when he

0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:06.800
<v Speaker 2>pulled into a parking lot at a county office building

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:10.520
<v Speaker 2>in Lenore City, Tennessee, he happened to come across Louden

0:37:10.600 --> 0:37:14.640
<v Speaker 2>County Sheriff Tim Geider and Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.560
<v Speaker 2>as they were getting out of their cars. They relate

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.800
<v Speaker 2>for a meeting, so this conversation was short. But Huff

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.719
<v Speaker 2>asked Sheriff Geiter if he'd be willing to arrest a

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:28.160
<v Speaker 2>fellow sheriff.

0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:30.120
<v Speaker 1>At trial.

0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Sheriff Guiter couldn't really remember much about this brief interaction,

0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:37.480
<v Speaker 2>but he said he probably told this stranger in a

0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:40.480
<v Speaker 2>parking lot that he'd need to know more about a

0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:44.800
<v Speaker 2>situation like that in order to make a determination. But yes,

0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:49.400
<v Speaker 2>hypothetically he did have the authority to arrest another sheriff.

0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Darren.

0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Huff was trying to recruit law enforcement officers to assist

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:59.560
<v Speaker 2>with the plan. He wasn't giving up, but he was

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.960
<v Speaker 2>running out of time. Fitzpatrick's next hearing was scheduled for

0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:07.680
<v Speaker 2>May fourth, and he needed to find a sheriff who

0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:12.680
<v Speaker 2>would be there to take his prisoners into custody. He

0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:15.200
<v Speaker 2>must not have had much success on the twenty eighth, though,

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 2>because two days later, on April thirtieth, he was back

0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 2>at it, driving around Tennessee looking for sheriffs who believed

0:38:22.640 --> 0:38:26.880
<v Speaker 2>in the constitution. He was up near Knoxville, when he

0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:32.439
<v Speaker 2>got pulled over. This time around, there's no debate about

0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 2>whether or not he ran a stop sign.

0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:39.200
<v Speaker 1>This wasn't a traffic stop. There was a federal.

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Warrant for his arrest. Darren Huff was charged with violating

0:38:57.160 --> 0:39:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Title eighteen, Section two thirty one sub section A two.

0:39:02.840 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's interesting. You probably don't believe me, but hang

0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:12.279
<v Speaker 2>on a second. Section two thirty one is civil disorders,

0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 2>and it covers three separate crimes that don't really go together.

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:20.799
<v Speaker 2>A one makes it a crime to teach someone else

0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 2>how to make or use a gun or a bomb

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:26.400
<v Speaker 2>if you know or have reason to know that they'll

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:31.560
<v Speaker 2>use that information in furtherance of a civil disorder. A two,

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:35.360
<v Speaker 2>which was Darren's crime, makes it illegal to transport a

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:38.359
<v Speaker 2>firearm or a bomb across state lines if you know

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 2>or have reason to know that the gun or explosive

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:44.520
<v Speaker 2>device is going to be used in a civil disorder.

0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:48.960
<v Speaker 2>And A three makes it illegal to be in a

0:39:49.000 --> 0:39:54.000
<v Speaker 2>cops way during a civil disorder. So that one doesn't

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:57.920
<v Speaker 2>really belong right. The first two are about guns and bombs,

0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:02.319
<v Speaker 2>and the third one is just about annoying. But that's

0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:03.880
<v Speaker 2>the one that's really gotten to work out in the

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:07.120
<v Speaker 2>last couple of years because it was used in hundreds

0:40:07.160 --> 0:40:12.080
<v Speaker 2>of January six cases. But eighteen USC. Two thirty one

0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:17.919
<v Speaker 2>A two is uncommon. I mean, people get charged for

0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:21.640
<v Speaker 2>doing this kind of thing, but usually they get charged

0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 2>with conspiracy to do whatever it was they were going

0:40:26.200 --> 0:40:28.400
<v Speaker 2>to do when they got where they were going, and

0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:30.720
<v Speaker 2>then maybe they'll tack on some kind of gun crime.

0:40:32.160 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And Subsection A one just doesn't make any sense at all.

0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:38.640
<v Speaker 2>There's already a whole separate law that makes it a

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:42.680
<v Speaker 2>crime to distribute information about bombmaking, and that one has

0:40:42.719 --> 0:40:45.080
<v Speaker 2>a harsher penalty than this, So I don't know why

0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 2>we need this one at all. So I was confused

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.960
<v Speaker 2>by this choice of statute, and I couldn't think of

0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 2>any place I'd ever seen this statute before. And it

0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:58.160
<v Speaker 2>turns out that's because I hadn't seen it before, and

0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:04.479
<v Speaker 2>I still haven't even after looking pretty hard. When Darren

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Huff appealed his conviction, it was noted in the appellate

0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:12.319
<v Speaker 2>record that this particular statute had actually never been construed

0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 2>by an appellate court before, so this was the first

0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:20.160
<v Speaker 2>time a court of appeals was examining this statute. But

0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Just because people don't get charged with this very often

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:24.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make it any less.

0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Of a real law.

0:41:27.080 --> 0:41:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And it does pretty well describe what he did because

0:41:32.200 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 2>he didn't really do anything, did he, But they were

0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:41.880
<v Speaker 2>really worried that he might, or at least they were

0:41:41.920 --> 0:41:45.920
<v Speaker 2>worried that he would continue to create situations where someone

0:41:46.000 --> 0:41:50.239
<v Speaker 2>else might because if you get enough anxious people with

0:41:50.360 --> 0:41:54.799
<v Speaker 2>guns together enough times, eventually something is going to go

0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:59.360
<v Speaker 2>wrong in a way that escalates pretty quickly. So some

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:04.480
<v Speaker 2>federal agent or prosecutor got creative and they found a

0:42:04.480 --> 0:42:10.040
<v Speaker 2>crime because technically, yeah, he put guns in his truck

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and he drove to another state. And when he was

0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:16.120
<v Speaker 2>doing it, the plan that he had in his mind

0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:18.920
<v Speaker 2>was that he was going to have that gun around

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:22.919
<v Speaker 2>in case the county judge didn't appreciate him barging into

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:29.160
<v Speaker 2>her courtroom. So the intent is pretty clear. He told

0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:33.000
<v Speaker 2>anyone within earshot for two weeks what he was going

0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to do. He wanted to lead an armed mom onto

0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:39.960
<v Speaker 2>the courthouse. He made videos about it, He told his

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:42.719
<v Speaker 2>bank teller, he told a bunch of state troopers, he

0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:46.120
<v Speaker 2>gave a speech, And you don't actually have to end

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:49.800
<v Speaker 2>up carrying out the plan. To be guilty of showing

0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:54.439
<v Speaker 2>up to the plan with a gun, and in the end,

0:42:54.680 --> 0:42:58.759
<v Speaker 2>a jury agreed. They found Darren Huff guilty of interstate

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:01.840
<v Speaker 2>transportation of a firearm with the intention to use it

0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:05.880
<v Speaker 2>unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder. The Sixth Circuit

0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Court of Appeals upheld the conviction, and Darren had already

0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 2>completed his four year sentence by the time the Supreme

0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:16.279
<v Speaker 2>Court declined to hear the case in twenty sixteen. Now,

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.359
<v Speaker 2>normally that's all I would really have to say about

0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:21.640
<v Speaker 2>a criminal case. We already talked all the way through

0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:25.320
<v Speaker 2>the actual timeline of events, so you already know what happened,

0:43:26.280 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 2>and I just told you how the trial ended. He

0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:32.840
<v Speaker 2>was convicted by a jury, appealed unsuccessfully, and served a sentence.

0:43:34.200 --> 0:43:38.640
<v Speaker 2>But this trial is really just so special. I mean,

0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 2>first of all, it went to trial. That's pretty rare.

0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:47.560
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, just two point three percent of

0:43:47.640 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 2>people charged with federal crimes actually went to trial.

0:43:52.520 --> 0:43:53.919
<v Speaker 1>But it's so much more than that.

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Darren Huff really really wanted to be in the driver's

0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:03.200
<v Speaker 2>seat when it came to his criminal defense. One thing

0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:05.960
<v Speaker 2>you have to remember about Darren huff is that he's

0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:10.040
<v Speaker 2>got a little sovereign citizen in him. He seems at

0:44:10.120 --> 0:44:13.799
<v Speaker 2>times to take issue with that label. But when he

0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:15.840
<v Speaker 2>was asked how he felt about the gold fringe on

0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the flag at his trial, he was very evasive, And

0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.200
<v Speaker 2>in the year and a half between his arrest and

0:44:23.360 --> 0:44:27.560
<v Speaker 2>his trial, he kept insisting that his public defenders file

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:32.920
<v Speaker 2>motions based on legal arguments that he had invented, and

0:44:32.920 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 2>when they refused to file some of the more bizarre ones,

0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:41.040
<v Speaker 2>he fired them releast he tried to. In March of

0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:45.280
<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven, his public defender was begging him to consider

0:44:45.320 --> 0:44:48.680
<v Speaker 2>the plea deal they were being offered, explaining over and

0:44:48.840 --> 0:44:50.680
<v Speaker 2>over again that it was the best deal he was

0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 2>going to get, and the motions he was drafting on

0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:55.879
<v Speaker 2>his own just don't have any basis in the law,

0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and they have no legal merit, and they really seemed

0:44:59.920 --> 0:45:02.239
<v Speaker 2>to trying to explain to him that you can't just

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:05.960
<v Speaker 2>file how you feel. There has to be case law,

0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:10.240
<v Speaker 2>It has to be based in something. And after months

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:13.880
<v Speaker 2>of bitter emails back and forth about you know, we

0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:18.040
<v Speaker 2>can't file stuff that you made up, and Darren's accusing

0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:22.160
<v Speaker 2>them of working against him, and the original public defenders

0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:25.799
<v Speaker 2>file a motion to withdraw, saying that the relationship has

0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:30.880
<v Speaker 2>soured irreparably and they can't continue. And during this brief

0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:34.160
<v Speaker 2>period of time before a new public defender could be appointed,

0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Darren files some of those motions he wanted, the ones

0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:44.800
<v Speaker 2>he wrote, including one that just reads comes the defendant

0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 2>in the above entitled action, Darren Wesley huff And moves

0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.240
<v Speaker 2>the court to clarify its position on the Second Amendment

0:45:51.840 --> 0:45:56.480
<v Speaker 2>US Constitution. And when his second public defender was assigned,

0:45:56.480 --> 0:45:59.640
<v Speaker 2>a man named Scott Green, there were just three months

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:03.920
<v Speaker 2>to go before trial, and in those three months he

0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:07.560
<v Speaker 2>did his job. He filed motions to suppress the statements

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:10.279
<v Speaker 2>Darren made during the traffic stop, motions to prevent the

0:46:10.320 --> 0:46:14.040
<v Speaker 2>prosecution from bringing up his extremist beliefs, the kinds of

0:46:14.040 --> 0:46:17.160
<v Speaker 2>things you'd expect to see. And he seemed to be

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:20.120
<v Speaker 2>humoring his client when it came to some of his

0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:25.239
<v Speaker 2>unique ideas about the law. But like the attorneys before him,

0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:30.239
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't willing to put his name on nonsense. And

0:46:30.320 --> 0:46:33.160
<v Speaker 2>after another round of these emails back and forth, where

0:46:33.200 --> 0:46:36.000
<v Speaker 2>this exasperated attorney is trying to explain to him, that

0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:40.680
<v Speaker 2>motions have to be based on the law. Darren threatened

0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:44.040
<v Speaker 2>to fire him, writing if you do not have the

0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:47.960
<v Speaker 2>courage or kahunahs necessary to represent me, then please let

0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:52.400
<v Speaker 2>me know. I think that's supposed to say kahones, but

0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:59.880
<v Speaker 2>it says kah u ANDAs cohunas. Maybe that's a regional variation.

0:47:00.719 --> 0:47:01.879
<v Speaker 1>He meets balls.

0:47:03.360 --> 0:47:07.160
<v Speaker 2>And then email is included in this bizarre fifteen page

0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.800
<v Speaker 2>document that he submitted to the court complaining about and

0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:14.840
<v Speaker 2>trying to fire his lawyer. But he ends the document

0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:18.839
<v Speaker 2>by saying, quote, is the Second Amendment part of the Constitution?

0:47:19.320 --> 0:47:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes or no?

0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Wherefore Darren Wesley Huff moves this court to dismiss the

0:47:24.480 --> 0:47:28.959
<v Speaker 2>indictment against him. I don't really know where to start

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:33.960
<v Speaker 2>with that. That's really not how it works. And this

0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:36.359
<v Speaker 2>lawyer tried to withdraw from the case, saying, you know,

0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want me to be his lawyer anymore. This

0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:42.080
<v Speaker 2>is not working out. He can't do this, and the

0:47:42.160 --> 0:47:46.120
<v Speaker 2>judge said no, they were too close to trial. They

0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:49.040
<v Speaker 2>would just have to work it out because they're going

0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:53.440
<v Speaker 2>to trial together. And Green really does seem to have

0:47:53.480 --> 0:47:57.000
<v Speaker 2>done his best here. On the eve of the trial,

0:47:57.080 --> 0:48:02.120
<v Speaker 2>he filed five separate documents, each one called mister Huff's

0:48:02.320 --> 0:48:08.080
<v Speaker 2>special request, and they were sort of fanciful jury instructions.

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:12.680
<v Speaker 2>It probably will not surprise you that mister Green declined

0:48:12.880 --> 0:48:17.240
<v Speaker 2>to continue working with Darren on his appeal, and Darren's

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:20.320
<v Speaker 2>attitude did not improve once he was in federal prison.

0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 2>One email he sent his new lawyer, mister Gully during

0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the appeal starts off by accusing Gully of withholding the

0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:32.200
<v Speaker 2>trial transcripts. But they just hadn't been made yet. It

0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:35.760
<v Speaker 2>takes a long time to produce those, but he writes

0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:38.960
<v Speaker 2>to his lawyer, I am thus left to wonder whether

0:48:39.000 --> 0:48:42.040
<v Speaker 2>you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or

0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:45.800
<v Speaker 2>if you possibly received your degree from a remedial online school,

0:48:46.320 --> 0:48:49.399
<v Speaker 2>or that you simply take me for a fool. You, sir,

0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:51.920
<v Speaker 2>have made a mockery of the system that purports to

0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:56.279
<v Speaker 2>provide me with effective assistance of counsel. Later, in the

0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:59.840
<v Speaker 2>same email, he explains to his lawyer that the government

0:49:00.400 --> 0:49:03.480
<v Speaker 2>can't charge him with a gun crime because he exists

0:49:03.520 --> 0:49:08.319
<v Speaker 2>outside of the federal government's jurisdiction on such matters, and

0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:13.040
<v Speaker 2>then he threatens to have his attorney indicted, disbarred, and institutionalized.

0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Mister Gully's response to this letter doesn't seem to be

0:49:18.080 --> 0:49:21.360
<v Speaker 2>in the appellate record, but from what I can see,

0:49:21.560 --> 0:49:23.880
<v Speaker 2>he did the best he could with a losing case.

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:30.080
<v Speaker 2>We'd be doing episodes about Walter Fitzpatrick and his entourage

0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:34.200
<v Speaker 2>for weeks if I told you every weird thing that

0:49:34.239 --> 0:49:37.520
<v Speaker 2>I found. But I can't resist just a few more,

0:49:37.640 --> 0:49:42.120
<v Speaker 2>if you'll indulge me. When Fitzpatrick finally did get arraigned

0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:45.440
<v Speaker 2>in Monroe County for that original April first attempt to

0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:50.640
<v Speaker 2>arrest the grand jury foreman, it did not go well.

0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:54.719
<v Speaker 2>The judge that he'd accused of treason was presiding, and

0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.640
<v Speaker 2>as she's flipping through the exhibits, sort of glancing over

0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:02.200
<v Speaker 2>the paperwork and the citizens erect Warrens, she noted that

0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the court clerk, miss Cook, was accused by Fitzpatrick of

0:50:06.600 --> 0:50:10.880
<v Speaker 2>some pretty serious crimes. And so the judge turns to

0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:14.560
<v Speaker 2>the clerk who's there in the courtroom, and says, miss Cook,

0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:19.759
<v Speaker 2>have you been levying war against the United States? And

0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:24.600
<v Speaker 2>the clerk says, I don't think so, your honor, And

0:50:24.680 --> 0:50:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I wish that I had an audio recording of this.

0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:31.319
<v Speaker 2>I just have the transcript but Fitzpatrick is having a

0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:34.399
<v Speaker 2>lot of outbursts during this hearing, and at this point

0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:37.600
<v Speaker 2>he says, are you making fun of me? Is that

0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:42.040
<v Speaker 2>what's going on here? Am I being mocked? And they

0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:47.239
<v Speaker 2>just ignore him and continue the proceeding. I would have

0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.840
<v Speaker 2>loved to have seen it, and I wish the officer

0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:54.520
<v Speaker 2>who testified at a Huff's trial had been more specific

0:50:55.120 --> 0:50:57.960
<v Speaker 2>about exactly who it was that he overheard Darren Huff

0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:01.600
<v Speaker 2>talking to. In the morning of April twentieth, outside Donna's Cafe,

0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Huff had a quiet conversation with someone about calling off

0:51:07.200 --> 0:51:12.040
<v Speaker 2>the operation that day. The officer did mention that Huff

0:51:12.080 --> 0:51:14.440
<v Speaker 2>was speaking to a man with a revolver on his hip,

0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:16.680
<v Speaker 2>and that the man had gotten out of a pt

0:51:16.880 --> 0:51:19.480
<v Speaker 2>cruiser with Georgia license plates.

0:51:20.080 --> 0:51:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Carl Swenson's from Georgia.

0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:24.760
<v Speaker 2>But I know Carl Swenson was driving a two thousand

0:51:24.800 --> 0:51:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and nine Honda Civic Hybrid that day, trust me, I checked.

0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.640
<v Speaker 2>I have got a state trooper on tape calling in

0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:34.040
<v Speaker 2>his plates when they saw him on the highway. And

0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:38.080
<v Speaker 2>in his blog, Walter Fitzpatrick thanked by name most of

0:51:38.120 --> 0:51:40.959
<v Speaker 2>the people who showed up there that day and most

0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:44.040
<v Speaker 2>of them were women, and very few of them were

0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:50.400
<v Speaker 2>from Georgia. But we do know for sure that Bill Luhman,

0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:55.280
<v Speaker 2>a Marine Corps veteran and crane operator from Waco, Georgia,

0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.360
<v Speaker 2>was there that day. And you'd be a fool to

0:51:58.360 --> 0:52:00.560
<v Speaker 2>believe Bill Lowman would walk as far as his own

0:52:00.560 --> 0:52:04.120
<v Speaker 2>mailbox without a gun. So if I had to put

0:52:04.160 --> 0:52:07.040
<v Speaker 2>money on it, I think the person Darren Huff was

0:52:07.080 --> 0:52:11.560
<v Speaker 2>making tactical decisions with was the same man who'd accompanied

0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.799
<v Speaker 2>him to Walter's house two weeks earlier when they put

0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:19.920
<v Speaker 2>this whole plan together, a fellow member of the Georgia

0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Militia and the Oathkeepers. Now, my main wheelhouse is not

0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:31.120
<v Speaker 2>the Militia movement, so I can't say I'm surprised. I'd

0:52:31.200 --> 0:52:33.759
<v Speaker 2>never heard of Bill Luhman before, and I didn't have

0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:38.200
<v Speaker 2>any real prior knowledge about the Georgia Militia. But in

0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:41.000
<v Speaker 2>some old blog posts Luhman is referred to as a

0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:44.359
<v Speaker 2>leader in the Georgia Militia. That may have just been

0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:47.120
<v Speaker 2>his local chapter. There were at least a dozen units

0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 2>around the state of this larger group calling itself the

0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Georgia Militia, and his name does not appear in the

0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:58.640
<v Speaker 2>court record for the four members of the Georgia Militia

0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:02.520
<v Speaker 2>who were arrested in twenty eleven for a plot that

0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:06.080
<v Speaker 2>included plans to blow up the Federal building in Atlanta

0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:12.440
<v Speaker 2>and maybe murder government officials with Risin. And just a

0:53:12.480 --> 0:53:16.400
<v Speaker 2>side note, if you do try to google Georgia white

0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:20.960
<v Speaker 2>supremacist rice In attack, the more recent result you'll get

0:53:21.120 --> 0:53:25.239
<v Speaker 2>is for an unrelated white supremacist plot to carry out

0:53:25.280 --> 0:53:29.600
<v Speaker 2>a biological terrorist attack. In that case, in twenty seventeen,

0:53:29.680 --> 0:53:34.440
<v Speaker 2>a neo Nazi had actually successfully created the deadly poison,

0:53:35.040 --> 0:53:38.640
<v Speaker 2>but he accidentally exposed himself to it, so he showed

0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:41.600
<v Speaker 2>up at the emergency room before he could actually hurt

0:53:41.600 --> 0:53:45.000
<v Speaker 2>anybody else. But this is not that one. This is

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:49.800
<v Speaker 2>the one from twenty eleven. But again, Bill Luhman nothing

0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:54.880
<v Speaker 2>to do with the rice In attacks, just the same militia.

0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:57.440
<v Speaker 2>And I found an old event for a tea party

0:53:57.520 --> 0:54:01.280
<v Speaker 2>picnic in North Carolina in twenty thirteen that list. Luman

0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:04.640
<v Speaker 2>is a speaker and his title in the program is

0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:10.520
<v Speaker 2>Constitutionalist icon from Georgia, and he appeared on stage with

0:54:10.640 --> 0:54:14.360
<v Speaker 2>such heroes of the patriot movement as James Renwick. Manship

0:54:15.719 --> 0:54:18.000
<v Speaker 2>that name is not familiar to you, I'm sure, but

0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:21.400
<v Speaker 2>you might remember the photo of the guy in the

0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:26.480
<v Speaker 2>George Washington costume wading into the reflecting pool at the

0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Capitol during the January sixth riot as a sort of

0:54:29.680 --> 0:54:35.280
<v Speaker 2>symbolic crossing the Delaware moment. But my favorite Manship moment

0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:37.600
<v Speaker 2>is the time he showed up at my local library

0:54:37.719 --> 0:54:42.560
<v Speaker 2>dressed as Thomas Jefferson and refused to break character as

0:54:42.600 --> 0:54:45.759
<v Speaker 2>he ranted in the first person about how he never

0:54:45.880 --> 0:54:52.799
<v Speaker 2>had sexual relations with enslaved women. And Bill Luman is

0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:56.560
<v Speaker 2>very much still around and active in the same kinds

0:54:56.560 --> 0:55:01.520
<v Speaker 2>of conspiracy spaces. He posts, give or take one hundred

0:55:01.600 --> 0:55:05.920
<v Speaker 2>times a day every day on Trump's Truth social platform,

0:55:06.760 --> 0:55:10.920
<v Speaker 2>and all of his posts are in all caps. He

0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:16.400
<v Speaker 2>starts every day by posting this message, good morning patriots

0:55:16.400 --> 0:55:19.360
<v Speaker 2>and grassroots warriors that are standing up for our constitution

0:55:19.440 --> 0:55:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and precious way of life. Good morning to all veterans

0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:26.640
<v Speaker 2>that serve honorably sempify my fellow marines. May America bless

0:55:26.680 --> 0:55:29.600
<v Speaker 2>God again into our nation, our homes, and our heart's

0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:36.080
<v Speaker 2>heart emoji. Seriously, he posts that every morning. He's very

0:55:36.080 --> 0:55:40.160
<v Speaker 2>committed and he still thinks Barack Obama is a Kenyan

0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:44.400
<v Speaker 2>born Muslim. He still posts a lot about hanging people

0:55:44.440 --> 0:55:49.719
<v Speaker 2>for treason, but the reasons have shifted, you know, COVID, Ukraine,

0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:56.120
<v Speaker 2>election fraud whatever. As I'm writing this right now, he's

0:55:56.160 --> 0:55:59.640
<v Speaker 2>still posting. He posted a picture of a marine shaking

0:55:59.640 --> 0:56:02.560
<v Speaker 2>hands with the dog, and there was a post this

0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:06.520
<v Speaker 2>evening that was a screenshot from Braveheart with the text

0:56:06.960 --> 0:56:11.080
<v Speaker 2>confirm Matt Gates or else written over mel Gibson's face.

0:56:12.440 --> 0:56:15.520
<v Speaker 2>His last post was a thread documenting the progress of

0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:19.239
<v Speaker 2>his homemade banana upbread. At the time of recording, I

0:56:19.320 --> 0:56:22.080
<v Speaker 2>can report that he added cream cheese icing to it

0:56:22.160 --> 0:56:27.440
<v Speaker 2>and it was quote stellar. He's pretty popular over their

0:56:27.480 --> 0:56:30.400
<v Speaker 2>own truth social He was even retruthed last year by

0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump himself after posting some incoherent theory about stolen

0:56:35.080 --> 0:56:39.319
<v Speaker 2>votes from the twenty twenty election. Well, he wasn't retruthed,

0:56:39.360 --> 0:56:41.240
<v Speaker 2>he was quote truthed.

0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Whatever.

0:56:41.840 --> 0:56:45.960
<v Speaker 2>The truth social equivalent of a quote tweet is Lumann

0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:49.040
<v Speaker 2>had suggested that the people responsible for the dominion voting

0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:53.000
<v Speaker 2>machines should be tried for treason, and Trump quoted the post,

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:55.640
<v Speaker 2>adding a lot has been made of this lately.

0:56:56.320 --> 0:56:57.240
<v Speaker 1>What do you think.

0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:00.520
<v Speaker 2>And that must have been a huge day for Bill.

0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:06.360
<v Speaker 2>The post went pretty viral, a lot of the keyboard

0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:10.279
<v Speaker 2>warriors out here posting seventeen memes a day about January six.

0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Political prisoners absolutely still believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya,

0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:19.840
<v Speaker 2>and Walter Fitzpatrick went on to try his whole citizens

0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:24.280
<v Speaker 2>arrest thing in neighboring McMinn County too. He was eventually

0:57:24.320 --> 0:57:28.240
<v Speaker 2>convicted of perjury and extortion there, as well as getting

0:57:28.240 --> 0:57:31.720
<v Speaker 2>some more charges in Monroe County after he stole the

0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:36.280
<v Speaker 2>grand jury roles. Those stolen documents were located by the

0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:40.960
<v Speaker 2>FBI in the Connecticut home of Sharon Rondeau, the conspiracy

0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:44.720
<v Speaker 2>theory blogger whose commitment to questioning the citizenship of politicians

0:57:44.760 --> 0:57:49.960
<v Speaker 2>has remained strong over the years. She is still asking

0:57:50.080 --> 0:57:56.040
<v Speaker 2>questions about Ilhan Omar and Kamala Harris. Fitzpatrick published a

0:57:56.080 --> 0:57:59.000
<v Speaker 2>memoir last year about his quest for justice in his

0:57:59.120 --> 0:58:03.000
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four Marshall. I didn't read it. It's like

0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:07.120
<v Speaker 2>four hundred pages long. He's in his seventies now and

0:58:07.200 --> 0:58:12.160
<v Speaker 2>he still occasionally updates his blog, jag Hunters. The most

0:58:12.200 --> 0:58:15.120
<v Speaker 2>recent post is just a link to someone else's video

0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:20.600
<v Speaker 2>and it's just like a mind numbing thirty minute mashup

0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:21.520
<v Speaker 2>of clips.

0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I can't even really explain it.

0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:27.920
<v Speaker 2>It's like actual footage of Trump rallies mixed in with

0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:32.000
<v Speaker 2>like myplow commercials, a TikTok video of someone doing the macarena,

0:58:32.640 --> 0:58:35.480
<v Speaker 2>but the lyrics have been changed to be about Donald Trump.

0:58:36.520 --> 0:58:38.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I tapped out when it got.

0:58:38.680 --> 0:58:42.360
<v Speaker 2>To a clip of Russell Brand praying with Tucker Carlson.

0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:46.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess what I'm getting at here is these guys

0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:50.720
<v Speaker 2>don't go away. The cause of the day changes, whether

0:58:50.760 --> 0:58:54.520
<v Speaker 2>it's nine to eleven truth, eartherism, COVID, denial, q Andon,

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:57.640
<v Speaker 2>stop the Steal. But it's a lot of the same

0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:03.640
<v Speaker 2>core ideas, and it's a lot of the same individual guise.

0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:08.360
<v Speaker 2>In one newspaper photo of Walter Fitzpatrick outside of the

0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:11.840
<v Speaker 2>courthouse after a hearing in McMinn County in twenty fourteen,

0:59:13.040 --> 0:59:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the man standing next to him is Field McConnell. And

0:59:17.960 --> 0:59:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Field McConnell is a former commercial airline pilot who retired

0:59:21.520 --> 0:59:24.760
<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and six after refusing to submit to

0:59:24.840 --> 0:59:28.960
<v Speaker 2>a neurological exam. He had become obsessed with the idea

0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:31.720
<v Speaker 2>that nine to eleven was an inside job, and was

0:59:31.760 --> 0:59:34.880
<v Speaker 2>convinced that Boeing had rigged all of their planes with

0:59:34.960 --> 0:59:38.080
<v Speaker 2>explosives and they were planning an upcoming nine to eleven

0:59:38.120 --> 0:59:42.840
<v Speaker 2>style attack. In twenty nineteen, he got really into QAnon.

0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:46.240
<v Speaker 2>An attorney in Florida who represents the family of a

0:59:46.240 --> 0:59:49.480
<v Speaker 2>missing child had to get a restraining order against him

0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:52.840
<v Speaker 2>after he made a series of YouTube videos threatening to

0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:56.920
<v Speaker 2>kill her and accusing her of having trafficked the missing child.

0:59:57.880 --> 1:00:00.320
<v Speaker 2>The day I'm recording this, he was a guest on

1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:05.000
<v Speaker 2>a podcast hosted by a small scale QAnon influencer. I

1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:08.280
<v Speaker 2>would tell you what they talked about, but it kind

1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:10.280
<v Speaker 2>of sounded like he was calling in from the bottom

1:00:10.280 --> 1:00:10.880
<v Speaker 2>of the ocean.

1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:14.560
<v Speaker 1>This episode took.

1:00:14.400 --> 1:00:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Me days longer to write than it should have, because

1:00:18.680 --> 1:00:21.200
<v Speaker 2>every new name I turned up in the comments on

1:00:21.240 --> 1:00:24.840
<v Speaker 2>a fifteen year old blog post took me on some long,

1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:28.840
<v Speaker 2>strange path that some character in this story had taken

1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:33.600
<v Speaker 2>in the year. Since there are no lone wolves, no

1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:37.480
<v Speaker 2>one is self radicalizing in a vacuum. People don't just

1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:39.880
<v Speaker 2>wake up one day and drive three hours with a

1:00:39.880 --> 1:00:42.760
<v Speaker 2>camcorder and a truck full of guns for no reason

1:00:42.800 --> 1:00:46.840
<v Speaker 2>at all. And with each passing week, as I immerse

1:00:46.960 --> 1:00:51.200
<v Speaker 2>myself in the archives, piecing together one weird little guy's

1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:55.360
<v Speaker 2>story at a time, the clearer the connective tissue between

1:00:55.440 --> 1:01:00.520
<v Speaker 2>them becomes. But for all the weird twists, and in

1:01:00.560 --> 1:01:03.680
<v Speaker 2>this strange tale of the Birther militia trying to take

1:01:03.720 --> 1:01:07.200
<v Speaker 2>over a small town in Tennessee, the best thing I

1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:10.920
<v Speaker 2>found buried in all of these documents was this moment

1:01:10.960 --> 1:01:14.200
<v Speaker 2>from the trial when Darren Huff took the stand himself.

1:01:15.960 --> 1:01:19.360
<v Speaker 2>The prosecutor had asked him about some business cards that

1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:22.840
<v Speaker 2>he made after his arrest. On the front, it said

1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Darren Huff, right wing extremist and potential domestic terrorist, and

1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:31.040
<v Speaker 2>on the back there was a picture of a gun.

1:01:32.920 --> 1:01:36.760
<v Speaker 2>So on cross examination, Huff's defense attorney was trying to

1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:40.520
<v Speaker 2>elicit testimony that would show the jury that those business

1:01:40.560 --> 1:01:43.680
<v Speaker 2>cards were obviously a joke, that this was just his

1:01:43.760 --> 1:01:48.640
<v Speaker 2>sense of humor. So he asked Darren about some shirts,

1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:54.080
<v Speaker 2>and Darren gave the following answer. I had a friend

1:01:54.080 --> 1:01:56.640
<v Speaker 2>who had a T shirt shop, and I said, can

1:01:56.680 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 2>you make me a couple of shirts, because apparently this

1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:03.040
<v Speaker 2>government wants to label me. The first one that he

1:02:03.080 --> 1:02:06.160
<v Speaker 2>had made me said, I am the god fearing, gun toting,

1:02:06.200 --> 1:02:09.040
<v Speaker 2>flag waving right wing extremists the government warned you about.

1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:14.000
<v Speaker 2>And the other one said, I finally made homeland Securities

1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:16.960
<v Speaker 2>potential domestic terrorists, watched list, and all I got was

1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:21.440
<v Speaker 2>this lousy T shirt. Obviously the point behind them was

1:02:21.480 --> 1:02:25.480
<v Speaker 2>for humor, and they have been received as such. Another

1:02:25.560 --> 1:02:29.760
<v Speaker 2>one that was one of my initial shirts said, patriotism

1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:34.240
<v Speaker 2>is not a spectator sport. And then there's something that

1:02:34.280 --> 1:02:38.800
<v Speaker 2>I have never seen an official federal court transcript before,

1:02:40.360 --> 1:02:43.720
<v Speaker 2>as this big bearded militia man is describing his funny

1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:50.520
<v Speaker 2>terrorism shirts. The court reporter types in parentheses witness crying.

1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:53.640
<v Speaker 1>She put it on the record that he cried.

1:03:04.200 --> 1:03:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Weird Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media

1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:11.280
<v Speaker 2>and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written and recorded by me, Molly Conger.

1:03:11.960 --> 1:03:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The

1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:19.440
<v Speaker 2>show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The

1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:22.840
<v Speaker 2>theme music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email

1:03:22.880 --> 1:03:26.080
<v Speaker 2>me at Weird Little Guys Podcast at gmail dot com.

1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:29.360
<v Speaker 2>I will definitely read it, but I almost certainly will

1:03:29.360 --> 1:03:32.840
<v Speaker 2>not answer it. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the

1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:35.600
<v Speaker 2>show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit.

1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Just don't post anything that's going to make you one

1:03:38.680 --> 1:03:39.760
<v Speaker 2>of my Weird Little Guys