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Speaker 1: Call Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: When we left off last week, Walter Francis Fitzpatrick I

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Speaker 2: had been taken into custody outside the Monroe County Courthouse

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Speaker 2: in Madisonville, Tennessee, on April first, twenty ten. Fitzpatrick barged

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Speaker 2: into a closed grand jury proceeding and attempted to place

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Speaker 2: Monroe County grand Jury Foreman Gary Petway under citizen's arrest.

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Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick had written up his own arrest warrant, charging Petway

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Speaker 2: with obstruction of justice for his refusal to issue an

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Speaker 2: indictment against Barack Obama for treason. Walter Fitzpatrick did not

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Speaker 2: have the authority to draw up his own arrest warrants

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Speaker 2: any more than a county court in hour south of

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Speaker 2: Knoxville had the authority to indict the president on a

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Speaker 2: federal crime. But none of that really mattered to the

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Speaker 2: small crowd of supporters outside, who were sure that they

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Speaker 2: were closer than ever to arresting the president. Darren Huff,

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Speaker 2: an oathkeeper from Georgia, was among those supporters. He was

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Speaker 2: standing by with his video camera, hoping to capture Fitzpatrick's

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Speaker 2: victory against the corrupt county grand jury.

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Speaker 3: You have been notified you've been told mister Petway has

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Speaker 3: just been placed under citizens arrest.

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Speaker 4: My name is Walter Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 3: I have just placed mister Petway under citizens arrest.

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Speaker 2: But when the doors opened again, it was not Gary

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Speaker 2: Petway who was being escorted out by the Sheriff's deputies.

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Speaker 2: It was Walter Fitzpatrick.

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Speaker 5: They were leaving those or why because you just interrupted

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Speaker 5: a court proceeding.

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Speaker 4: The rest of us would get arrested for that. However,

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Speaker 4: all of you, thank you're special.

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Speaker 5: So now we're leaving the courthouse and then what then

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Speaker 5: you're free to go Otherwise you're going to get arrested

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Speaker 5: to afree to come back in No.

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Speaker 1: Sir, and he could have just left.

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Speaker 2: As the deputy points out, he's kind of being treated

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Speaker 2: with kid gloves here. He's already broken the law, but

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Speaker 2: nobody really wants to deal with this old crank and

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Speaker 2: his fan club.

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Speaker 1: But instead of leaving, Fitzpatrick pivoted.

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Speaker 2: Now he's placing the sheriff himself under arrest. In the

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Speaker 2: audio recording, you can hear the deputy sigh dramatically as

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Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick begins reading the officers their rights and they realize

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Speaker 2: that the only way Fitzpatrick is leaving the building is

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Speaker 2: in handcuffs.

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Speaker 1: Fitzpatrick was charged.

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Speaker 2: With interfering with a grand jury, resisting arrest, and inciting

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Speaker 2: a riot. He was held in the county jail over

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Speaker 2: the weekend, during which time he reportedly refused to eat

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Speaker 2: or drink, and was offered a fifteen hundred dollars bond

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Speaker 2: on the condition that he undergo a psychiatric evaluation. On

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Speaker 2: April seven, the day after Fitzpatrick was released, Darren Huff

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Speaker 2: made the drive from his home in Georgia back up

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Speaker 2: to Madisonville. In a text message Huff sent a friend

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Speaker 2: on his way home that night, he said he'd spent

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Speaker 2: the day meeting with Fitzpatrick going over the plan. They

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Speaker 2: were coordinating with multiple groups to show up for what

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Speaker 2: Huff called Phase two. When Walter Fitzpatrick appeared for his

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Speaker 2: court date on April twentieth, he wasn't going to be alone.

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Speaker 2: I'm Molly Conger and this is weird, little guys. This

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Speaker 2: episode is about Darren Huff. I mean, the last episode

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be about Darren Huff. Was the story

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Speaker 2: I sat down to write in the first place, But

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Speaker 2: my vague recollection of the story of some oathkeeper with

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Speaker 2: a hair brain scheme to citizens arrest and entire county

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Speaker 2: court turned up something a little more complicated that keeps happening.

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Speaker 2: It turns out history is always a little messy. No

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Speaker 2: one is really the sole protagonist in their own story.

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Speaker 2: Life doesn't really work that way. But if you listened

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Speaker 2: to last week's episode, now you have some contexts for

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Speaker 2: the baffling confidence Walter Fitzpatrick and Darren Huff seemed to

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Speaker 2: have in their plan. They'd both been completely swept up

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Speaker 2: in this nationwide right wing mania of Birtherism, the conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theory that Barack Obama was ineligible to serve as the

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Speaker 2: president of the United States because he had been born

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Speaker 2: in Kenya. Walter Fitzpatrick as bizarre and disconnected from reality

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Speaker 2: as his ideas sound. Was far from the only American

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Speaker 2: who was barging in to a court clerk's office every

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Speaker 2: week to demand something be done about the president's acts

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Speaker 2: of treason.

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Speaker 1: It was everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Everyone from Chuck Norris to Donald Trump was asking is

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Speaker 2: Barack Obama a natural born citizen of.

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Speaker 1: The United States.

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Speaker 2: Politicians like Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, and Newt Gingrich flirted

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Speaker 2: with the idea, walking right up to the line and

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Speaker 2: then claiming they'd misspoken or been misunderstood. Minnesota Congresswoman Michelle

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Speaker 2: Bachmann said she would proudly produce her own birth certificate.

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Speaker 2: Alabama Senator Richard Shelby denied that he'd told a newspaper

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Speaker 2: that he'd like to see Barack Obama's birth certificate. Missouri

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Speaker 2: Congressman Roy Blunt said he'd been taken out of context

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Speaker 2: after telling a reporter that there was no legitimate reason

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Speaker 2: for the president not to produce his birth certificate. This

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Speaker 2: wasn't something that existed only at the nic fringe of

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Speaker 2: political discourse. Mainstream politicians and celebrities were just asking questions,

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Speaker 2: never mind the kinds of things their supporters might do

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Speaker 2: to try to get answers. So, after an entire year

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Speaker 2: of unsuccessfully petitioning his local county grand jury to bring

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Speaker 2: charges against Barack Obama, Walter Fitzpatrick was frustrated, and when

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Speaker 2: he barged into that courtroom on April first, twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: both Keeper Darren Huff and Sovereign Citizen Carl Swenson were

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Speaker 2: among those waiting just outside, and after the tables were

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Speaker 2: turned that day with this citizen's arrest turning into just

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Speaker 2: a citizen getting arrested. Darren Huff and Carl Swenson vowed

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Speaker 2: to return not just to support their friend at his

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Speaker 2: next court date, but to carry out a bigger, better

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Speaker 2: version of the plan.

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Speaker 6: You who have been on the fence must get off

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Speaker 6: of that fence. Please go to the courthouse in mass

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Speaker 6: and demand justice. He is honoring his oath. To all

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Speaker 6: of you out there who have taken that oath, I

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Speaker 6: ask you right now to honor yours. Get down there,

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Speaker 6: get him out of jail, and make sure that justice

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Speaker 6: has served. My name is CARLS. Winston.

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Speaker 1: The call was put out.

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Speaker 2: If you believe in the cause, if you believe in

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Speaker 2: the constitution, you must stand with Walter Fitzpatrick against the

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Speaker 2: Monroe County courts. He was scheduled to appear on April twentieth,

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Speaker 2: and true patriots had an obligation to be there. Between

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Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick's release on the sixth and his court date on

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Speaker 2: the twentieth, they had just two weeks to prepare, according

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Speaker 2: to the court records. Darren Huff appeared in several videos

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Speaker 2: about the events in Madisonville that were posted on Carl

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Speaker 2: Swinson's website Rise Upfroamerica dot com. Archived pages of that

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Speaker 2: site do still exist, and I can read the text

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Speaker 2: on those pages, but the videos were all embedded with

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Speaker 2: flash Player. So Darren's calls to action maybe lost to

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Speaker 2: the sands of time. But we have some pretty solid

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Speaker 2: sources that can give us an idea of what was

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Speaker 2: on Darren's mind during those two weeks, because Darren Huff

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Speaker 2: has never once in his life shut his goddamn mouth.

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Speaker 2: On April fifteenth, Darren Huff stopped at the Chase Bank

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Speaker 2: in Hiram, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: He ran a.

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Speaker 2: Small business doing outdoor lighting, so he stopped by often

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Speaker 2: to deposit checks. According to Erica, the bank teller who

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Speaker 2: testified at his trial, most of the employees at the

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Speaker 2: branch knew him well enough to make friendly conversation, but

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Speaker 2: if she was working, he would wait in her line

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Speaker 2: even if another teller was free. But that evening he

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Speaker 2: wasn't making his usual jokes.

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Speaker 1: He was deadly serious.

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Speaker 2: Erica testified that Huff just launched right into telling her

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Speaker 2: about Walter Fitzpatrick and his upcoming trial in Madisonville, Tennessee,

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Speaker 2: a situation she had no context, for she'd never heard

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Speaker 2: of Walter Fitzpatrick, and she'd never been to Madisonville, Tennessee.

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Speaker 2: She was the only teller at the counter. The bank

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Speaker 2: was about to close for the night, and suddenly this

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Speaker 2: normally friendly customer is leaning over the counter telling her

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Speaker 2: that he was going to be spending this weekend mounting

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Speaker 2: an anti aircraft gun to the back of his pickup

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Speaker 2: truck because he and his militia were going to take

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Speaker 2: over a small town in Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: On Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: A conversation got so intense that another employee went to

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Speaker 2: go get the manager, Shane. In his testimony at trial,

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Speaker 2: Shane too said that Huff was a regular customer at

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Speaker 2: the bank, and over the years he'd gotten to know

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Speaker 2: him a bit. Sometime in two thousand and nine, Huff

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Speaker 2: got really political, and when he made small talk with

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Speaker 2: the bank tellers, it was usually about his anti government

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Speaker 2: beliefs and various conspiracy theories. So when another employee came

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Speaker 2: to get him that night because Huff was making Erica uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: he probably wasn't surprised. He tried guiding the conversation back

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Speaker 2: to safer territory, asking Huff if he'd be taking his

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Speaker 2: video camera with him again on this trip, but the

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Speaker 2: response was an alarming one. Huff told him it would

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Speaker 2: be kind of hard to hold the camera because he

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Speaker 2: planned to be quote on the front line with two

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Speaker 2: Ak forty sevens. He told the bank employees that they'd

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Speaker 2: probably see him on the news next week, and as

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Speaker 2: he was leaving, he told Erica, it was nice knowing you.

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Speaker 2: If I never see you again. Not to get ahead

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Speaker 2: of myself, but do you want to jump ahead here

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Speaker 2: and say Darren Huff would later accuse those two bank

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Speaker 2: employees of lying under oath. Obviously, there's no proving what

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Speaker 2: was or wasn't said at the bank that evening, But

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Speaker 2: within hours of that interaction, Erica was on the phone

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Speaker 2: with Madisonville, Tennessee, Police Chief Greg Breeden, and he recorded

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Speaker 2: that phone call, so we have a fairly contemporaneous recollection

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Speaker 2: of what was said. She related to Chief Breeden that

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Speaker 2: Huff told her that he was intending to travel to Madisonville, Tennessee,

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Speaker 2: on April twentieth for Walter Fitzpatrick's court hearing, that he

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Speaker 2: would be armed with AK forty seven's and an anti

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Speaker 2: aircraft gun, that he would be with other militia members,

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Speaker 2: and that the group intended to carry out citizens arrests

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Speaker 2: of various local officials and seize control of the courthouse.

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Speaker 2: And Darren Huff was found to be in possession of

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Speaker 2: printed copies of those citizens arrest warrants, and he would

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Speaker 2: later admit under oath that at that time he was

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Speaker 2: in possession of an anti aircraft gun and a pedestal

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Speaker 2: mount that could be installed in the bed of his truck.

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Speaker 1: She would have had no way.

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Speaker 2: Of knowing any of that at the time if he

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Speaker 2: hadn't told her himself, and she's on tape reporting it

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Speaker 2: to the police long before she could have read anything

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Speaker 2: in the news or been coached by an FBI agent

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Speaker 2: to say these things. Both Shane and Erica were understandably

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Speaker 2: deeply unsettled by that interaction. Immediately after leaving work that evening,

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Speaker 2: Erica called a friend who worked in local government, who

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Speaker 2: helped her find the phone number for the Madisonville, Tennessee

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Speaker 2: Police Department. Jane's wife urged him to call their own

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Speaker 2: sheriff in Paulding County, Georgia, and by the end of

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Speaker 2: the night, both bank employees had shared their concerns with

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Speaker 2: the police and by Monday they'd met with FBI agents.

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Speaker 2: And it was on Monday, April nineteenth, the day before

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Speaker 2: the planned occupation of Madisonville, Tennessee, that an FBI agent

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Speaker 2: knocked on Darren Huff's front door. Supervisory Special Agent Charles Reid,

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Speaker 2: accompanied by a couple of deputies from the Paulding County

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Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office, just wanted to have a word with him,

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Speaker 2: and Darren Huff voluntarily stepped out onto his front porch

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Speaker 2: and he chatted with the agent for about as long

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Speaker 2: as it took him to finish a cigarette. It was

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Speaker 2: a brief conversation. Agent Reid recalls that Huff was pretty

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Speaker 2: open about his plan to drive to Tennessee in the morning.

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Speaker 2: He said he'd have his CULT forty five on his

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Speaker 2: hip and his AK forty seven was in the truck.

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Speaker 2: He freely volunteered to the agent that he was a

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Speaker 2: member of both the Oath Keepers and the Georgia Militia.

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Speaker 2: He said that the plan was to execute citizens, arrest warrants,

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Speaker 2: and quote take back Madisonville, but that the group would

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Speaker 2: not resort to violence unless they were provoked. When Darren

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Speaker 2: Huff took the stand at his own trial. He recalled,

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Speaker 2: telling Agent Read that evening that he'd love it if

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Speaker 2: the FBI would be there in Madisonville. Again, remember last

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Speaker 2: week that letter that Walter Fitzpatrick sent the police chief

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Speaker 2: of Madisonville before all of this got started. He wasn't

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Speaker 2: making threats. He was inviting the police to be part

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Speaker 2: of his plan. And that's the same mindset Darren has here.

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Speaker 2: He even gave the FBI agent his business card. I

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Speaker 2: had to double check here because Darren's business cards do

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Speaker 2: come up again later, but it sounds like the business

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Speaker 2: card he gave Agent Read the night before the big

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Speaker 2: day was just a normal business card, a real one

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Speaker 2: for his outdoor lighting business. It wasn't until after he

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Speaker 2: was arrested that he got new business cards printed that

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Speaker 2: said Darren Huff, right wing extremist and potential domestic terrorist.

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Speaker 2: But when he finished his cigarette, the conversation was over.

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Speaker 2: Agent Reid had no reason to arrest him. Huff had

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Speaker 2: expressed to him a plan to commit a federal crime,

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Speaker 2: the one he would eventually be arrested for, but he

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Speaker 2: hadn't actually done it yet. There was no federal crime

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Speaker 2: here until Darren Huff put his guns in the truck

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Speaker 2: and drove across the state line from Georgia into Tennessee

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Speaker 2: with the intent to engage in a little civil disorder.

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Speaker 2: So Agent Reid left, but another agent stayed nearby all night,

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Speaker 2: watching and waiting for the truck to pull out of

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Speaker 2: the driveway. Darren Huff was under FBI surveillance when he

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Speaker 2: hit the road just before dawn on April twentieth, twenty ten,

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Speaker 2: fifteen am, he was observed crossing the state line, and

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Speaker 2: just after seven am, Tennessee State Trooper Michael Wilson followed

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Speaker 2: Huff's truck as he took Exit sixty off I seventy

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Speaker 2: five towards Madisonville. Whether or not Huff rolled through the

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Speaker 2: stop sign at the bottom of the exit ramp is

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Speaker 2: a matter of some debate, but Trooper Wilson flashed his

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Speaker 2: blue lights and pulled him over. This traffic stop ends

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Speaker 2: up being central to Huff's case on appeal, but it

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Speaker 2: isn't where he got arrested. He actually didn't even get

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Speaker 2: a ticket, but Trooper Wilson and Darren Huff spent over

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Speaker 2: an hour together there on the shoulder of Tennessee Highway

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Speaker 2: sixty eight. When Huff was asked to step out of

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Speaker 2: the vehicle. He had his CULT forty five on his hip.

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Speaker 2: The officer unholstered the weapon, removed the magazine, checked the chamber,

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Speaker 2: and put the weapon in his patrol car for safekeeping.

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Speaker 2: Darren Huff produced a valid Georgia driver's license, but he

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Speaker 2: didn't have his truck's registration on him. He assured the

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Speaker 2: officer that the gun was legal and handed him a

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Speaker 2: piece of paper that he said was a gun carry permit.

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Speaker 2: In his testimony, the troopers said the document looked quote,

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Speaker 2: very unprofessional, and he was concerned it might not be real.

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Speaker 2: He spent an hour going back and forth with Dispatch

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Speaker 2: about this strange document and was never able to verify

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Speaker 2: whether Huff actually had a valid carry permit for that gun.

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Speaker 2: And during that hour, while they were trying to sort

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Speaker 2: it out, Darren Huff talked. He talked a lot, He

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Speaker 2: ran his mouth the entire time, and the entire conversation

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Speaker 2: was recorded on the officer's dash cam, which was connected

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Speaker 2: to a microphone on his uniform. And in their conversation,

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Speaker 2: Darren explained his whole plan. They had arrest warrants for

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Speaker 2: the Grand jury reforman the district attorney, the sheriff, the judge,

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Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi, et cetera. He recommended some YouTube videos the

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Speaker 2: officers should watch to learn more about Barack Obama's crimes,

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Speaker 2: and he told them they needed to be reading Walter

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Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick's blog. In the portions of this audio that I

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Speaker 2: could find, the officers seem to be playing along. They're

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Speaker 2: mostly just letting him talk without interruption, but occasionally they

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Speaker 2: asked some questions about how exactly the plan is going

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Speaker 2: to work, and Darren's happy to explain because he's actually

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Speaker 2: going to need their help.

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Speaker 5: And then at that point they would be placed in

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Speaker 5: the custody and you know, turn this man over you.

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Speaker 5: I don't have handcuffs, right, you know, somebody we would

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Speaker 5: need somebody like you guys there. And I can't tell

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Speaker 5: you how much I appreciate you guys listening.

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Speaker 2: Again, this is exactly like Fitzpatrick's letter to the police chief.

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Speaker 2: He's telling the cops what they plan to do and

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Speaker 2: trying to get them to be a part of it.

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Speaker 2: The audio is a little fuzzy because they're standing on

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Speaker 2: the side of the highway in the rain, but he

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Speaker 2: wants the officers to agree to receive these prisoners once

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Speaker 2: they've been citizens arrested. But that wasn't all. He was

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Speaker 2: worried about a lot more than just the corrupt government

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Speaker 2: in Monroe County, Tennessee. He shared his concerns about the

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Speaker 2: Affordable Care Act, which had just been signed into law.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks earlier.

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Speaker 2: Of course, he was upset that this was communism, obviously,

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Speaker 2: but more importantly, he was very worried because this law

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Speaker 2: requires that all Americans be implanted with the mark of

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Speaker 2: the Beast. As foretold in Revelations.

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Speaker 7: Liek.

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Speaker 5: Ten eighteen, Jesus said, and I beheld Satan as lightning

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Speaker 5: fall from heaven. The Greek translation from lightning is barock.

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Speaker 5: Now jess didn't speak Greek. He spoke Hebrew, so you

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Speaker 5: can look it up into Hebrew. Still barack lat and

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Speaker 5: heaven translates from Hebrew. Who or oh bomber? So Jesus said,

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Speaker 5: out of his own lips, I saw Satan as work bomb.

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Speaker 2: He went on to explain that he was opposed to

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Speaker 2: the war in the Middle East, though he notes that

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Speaker 2: he does think quote Muslims suck end quote, but also

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven was an inside job. He tells the officers,

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Speaker 2: that they who are all white men, are God's true

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Speaker 2: chosen people, that Caucasians are the real Israelites, and biblical

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Speaker 2: prophecy foretold the re establishment of Israel in seventeen seventy six.

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Speaker 2: Remember last week when we touched briefly on Christian identity,

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Speaker 2: That's what this is. Darren Huff is a self proclaimed

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Speaker 2: pastor in the Christian identity movement. He's standing there on

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Speaker 2: the side of the highway, surrounded by cops, preaching Christian

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Speaker 2: identity and trying to recruit them to.

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Speaker 1: The oath Keepers.

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Speaker 2: It remains very unclear to me why the trooper gave

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Speaker 2: Huff his gun back, but he did. At eight thirteen am.

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Speaker 2: He handed Darren Huff a written warning, returned his COLT

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Speaker 2: forty five, and told him he was free to go.

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Speaker 2: The men shook hands and Huff thanked the officer and

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Speaker 2: he took a few steps back toward his truck before

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Speaker 2: he stopped turned around and said, let me pre warn you,

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Speaker 2: if enough of us show up today, we are going

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Speaker 2: to proceed forward in this citizen's arrest. That's why I

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Speaker 2: have my forty five. Ain't no government official going peacefully?

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Speaker 2: And then he slid his Colt forty five back into

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Speaker 2: his holster, climbed into his pickup truck that said oath

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Speaker 2: keepers all down one side, and drove the last few

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Speaker 2: miles into Madisonville, Tennessee. At five o'clock that morning, more

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Speaker 2: than fifty police officers from multiple jurisdictions in and around

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Speaker 2: Monroe County, Tennessee, gathered for a briefing. There were FBI

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Speaker 2: agents from the Joint Terrace and Task Force and at

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Speaker 2: least one representative from the Department of Homeland Security. They'd

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Speaker 2: been monitoring the online chatter about Walter Fitzpatrick's hearing at

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Speaker 2: the courthouse at nine am, and they were worried. The

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Speaker 2: intelligence they had was that as many as six hundred

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Speaker 2: people might be on their way to Madisonville, Tennessee. They

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Speaker 2: had undercovers stationed in nearby businesses and snipers on rooftops.

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Speaker 2: One of those undercover officers was Mike Hall, the director

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Speaker 2: of a regional violent crime task force in Tennessee. In

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Speaker 2: plain clothes, he got a table at Donna's in Cafe,

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Speaker 2: a block from City Hall, where Fitzpatrick's supporters would be

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Speaker 2: meeting for breakfast. And maybe the police should have known

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Speaker 2: that They probably weren't expecting six hundred armed militiamen if

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Speaker 2: they knew that they had booked tables at Donna's cafe.

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Speaker 2: But that's neither here nor there, And by the time

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Speaker 2: breakfast was over, barely twenty supporters were packed into the

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Speaker 2: dining room, finishing their biscuits and coffee as Darren Huff

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Speaker 2: gave a rousing speech about taking his AK forty seven

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Speaker 2: down to the courthouse. Carl Swinson's dead website isn't exactly

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Speaker 2: easy to navigate, so maybe the whole speech was there

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Speaker 2: at some point, but I was only able to dig

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Speaker 2: up an audio file of the first six minutes or so,

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Speaker 2: and it's pretty inspiring stuff.

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Speaker 3: So as a Christians, as lieutenant commander said, I'm chaplain

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Speaker 3: for the Georgia Militia, so I look at things a

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Speaker 3: little bit differently, and I look at them basically, And

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Speaker 3: I told these guys, and I tell everybody, I'm not

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Speaker 3: a very smart guy. In fact, the only thing that

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Speaker 3: I know about the Constitution are the first few amendments.

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Speaker 5: Those leave me the hell alone ones.

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Speaker 7: That's what I know, and I know them well enough

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Speaker 7: to say you're wrong.

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Speaker 5: You can't do this.

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Speaker 2: Over the sound of clinking forks on plates the Christian

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Speaker 2: Identity militia. Chaplin explains that they are preparing for spiritual war,

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Speaker 2: that we were already in the end times, as we're

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Speaker 2: told in Revelations see the founding of the United States

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Speaker 2: was biblical prophecy. God knew that in seventeen seventy six

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Speaker 2: the thirteen tribes of Israel would be called back together

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Speaker 2: as the thirteen Colonies.

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Speaker 1: Yes, at thirteen, I know.

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Speaker 2: It's twelve, twelve tribes of Israel.

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Speaker 1: You know it's twelve.

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Speaker 2: But Darren is counting Joseph's sons, Ephraim and Manassa separately,

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Speaker 2: and that's why he thinks it's thirteen. And I know

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Speaker 2: that because he mentions Joseph's sons specifically, because otherwise I

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Speaker 2: might have assumed he was talking about something different. We

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Speaker 2: don't need to get into the specifics here. But adherents

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Speaker 2: of Christian identity believe that they are the real Israelites,

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Speaker 2: so they have to explain the existence of actual Jews

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Speaker 2: some other way, and that usually boils down to a

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Speaker 2: theory that Ashkenazi Jews are actually descended from a Turkic

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Speaker 2: race called the Kasars. Christian identity guys really love this

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Speaker 2: book from the seventies called The Thirteenth Tribe, which makes

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Speaker 2: the case for this theory. Honestly, please don't make me

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Speaker 2: explain the Kazar hypothesis every time I see a guy

400
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Speaker 2: posting about Kasar's I'm just.

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Speaker 1: Not having a good time.

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Speaker 2: But what Darren was saying might actually be weirder.

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Speaker 5: Jacob went like this, he blessed them the way God

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00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 5: intended him to bless them. That crossing of the arms.

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Speaker 3: Is on that flag.

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Speaker 6: That's where that.

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Speaker 7: Cross comes from.

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Speaker 3: It has nothing to do with rednecks. It has nothing

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Speaker 3: to do with the Confederacy.

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Speaker 5: It has everything to do with God's shows people.

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Speaker 2: Now this was a new one for me. I've never

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Speaker 2: heard this one before. What he's saying here is that

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Speaker 2: the Confederate flag symbolizes Jacob's blessing of Joseph's sons. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what the aid to be to see here is,

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Speaker 2: but I guess the Confederacy was the thirteenth Tribe of Israel. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to know. I don't want to know.

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Speaker 2: That way lies madness. So after his big speech, Darren

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Speaker 2: Huff steps outside Mike Hall, our undercover officer testified that

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Speaker 2: he overheard Huff's conversation with a man that he doesn't name,

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Speaker 2: but who, like Huff, was visibly armed, and Huff laments

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Speaker 2: to this man that he wishes they had more people,

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Speaker 2: saying quote, today would be a good day to do

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Speaker 2: it because it's raining and the police wouldn't expect them

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Speaker 2: to make a move in the rain. And Darren Huff

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Speaker 2: wasn't the only one who excused himself from the table

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Speaker 2: after this speech. Carl Swenson, our sovereign citizen and the

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Speaker 2: primary instigator of the online uproar calling people to Madisonville,

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Speaker 2: got a phone call to make.

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Speaker 8: All right, ladies and gentlemen. I'm here with my special

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Speaker 8: guest lieuten of Colonel Terry Lagan and his toorney Paul Jensen.

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Speaker 8: Colonel Lincoln is the army officer who has challenged the

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Speaker 8: legitimacy of Barack Obama to act as commander in chief.

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Speaker 8: Also with me is doctor Jerome Corsy and going to

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Speaker 8: Tennessee and Carl, Carl, you're on the air.

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Speaker 2: That's right, It's Carl and Tennessee And he was live

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Speaker 2: on air with g. Gordon Liddy and Jerome Corcy. I

437
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: have to admit I spent the better part of an

438
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 2: afternoon chasing down this fifteen year old episode of morning

439
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: Talk radio, so I am going to tell you about it.

440
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: On April twelfth, twenty ten, US Army Lieutenant Colonel Terry

441
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: Laken did not report for duty at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Instead,

442
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: he drove to the Pentagon in Washington, d C. Where

443
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: he was read his rights by his commanding officer, Colonel

444
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Gordon Ray.

445
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: Roberts.

446
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: Unit deployed to Afghanistan that week without him. The eighteen

447
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: year veteran wasn't afraid to return to Afghanistan. This deployment

448
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 2: would have been the seventh of his career and his

449
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: second to Afghanistan. In two thousand and four, he was

450
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 2: the Army's Flight Surgeon of the year. He'd been awarded

451
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: a Meritorious Service Medal and a Bronze Star. He was

452
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: on track to be promoted to full colonel within the

453
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: next year. But he had come to realize that his

454
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: deployment orders were unlawful, not on ideological grounds. He wasn't

455
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: protesting the war. He hadn't suddenly become a peace activist

456
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: after seeing the horrors of war firsthand.

457
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: No no, the doctor.

458
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: Was refusing to deploy unless he could see the president's

459
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: birth certificate.

460
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: I will disobey my orders to deploy it because I

461
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 4: and I believe all servicemen and women and the American

462
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 4: people deserve the truth about President Obama's cont pituitional eligibility

463
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 4: to the Office of the Presidency and the commander in Chief.

464
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: A week after disobeying his orders, Lieutenant Colonel Laken appeared

465
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: as a guest on The G. Gordon Liddy Show. Decades

466
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: after dabbling it being an FBI agent doing dirty tricks

467
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: for Richard Dixon and spending a little time in prison

468
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: for his role in the Watergate scandal, Lyddy really hit

469
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: his stride as an extremely right wing talk radio host

470
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: who regularly encouraged listeners to do things like shoot federal

471
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: agents in the head. Robert Evans put out a taggering

472
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: six part series of episodes on G. Gordon Liddy on

473
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: Behind the Bastards last year. So if you're interested in

474
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: hearing some outrageously racist clips of Liddy's radio show, I

475
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: believe those are in part six. But today we're just

476
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: talking about one episode of The G. Gordon Liddy Show,

477
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: the one that aired on April twentieth, twenty ten, because

478
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: that's the episode Carl Swenson called into during the second hour.

479
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 2: In the first hour of the show, Lyddy interviewed Colonel

480
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 2: Laken and Lacln's attorney, a California personal injury lawyer named

481
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: Paul Jensen. You might be wondering why an army officer

482
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: facing a court martial would hire a civilian personal injury lawyer,

483
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: And that's a great question. The answer is unclear. In

484
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 2: my experience, conspiracy theorists and extremists tend to hire attorneys

485
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: who share their beliefs rather than ones who have, say,

486
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: relevant experience in a particular area of law. But in

487
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: this case, it seems very worth mentioning that Paul Jensen

488
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: was a longtime associate of friend to and occasional attorney

489
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: for Roger Stone. In two thousand and seven, it was

490
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 2: Paul Jensen, acting as Stone's attorney, who publicly released a

491
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 2: copy of a left the pair claimed they had sent

492
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 2: to the FBI about Elliot Spitzer's alleged habit of wearing

493
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: nothing but long black socks during his liaisons with sex workers.

494
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: And Jensen represented.

495
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: Stone in twenty sixteen when he was sued over allegations

496
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: that he had been involved in a coordinated campaign of

497
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: voter intimidation. It was Jensen who drafted the paperwork to

498
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: incorporate Stop the Steel in twenty sixteen.

499
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: So after this interview, G.

500
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: Gordon Liddy opened the phones to hear from listeners on

501
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 2: the subject of Barack Obama's birth certificate. Caller after caller

502
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 2: thanked Colonel Laken for his courage and shared their own

503
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: theories about how they could finally get to the truth

504
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: of Barack Obama's birth. And then, after an advertisement for

505
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: gold coins, another berther called into the show, but this

506
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: one wasn't just sitting idly by while Barack Obama pretended

507
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: to be the president.

508
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 7: Lieutenant Colonel, I want to thank you for everything you're

509
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 7: doing and I want to give you some encouragement. Here.

510
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 7: I'm in the city of Madisonville, Tennessee right now in

511
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 7: Monroe County, where they've had this area on lockdown with FBI, TDI,

512
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 7: local police and troopers all because of Lieutenant Commander Walter

513
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 7: Fitzpatrick and his attempts to affect arrest using a criminal

514
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 7: complaint against Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi. And in this case,

515
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 7: the grand jury members here in the town of Madison, Tennessee.

516
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 7: People are gathering now, but it is a tenuous situation

517
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 7: at best.

518
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: Carl closed the call by saying things were getting pretty

519
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: heated out there in Tennessee, and everything they were doing

520
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: was quote indirect support of the message being pushed by

521
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: Colonel Laken and Lyddy himself. G Gordon lyly asked Carl

522
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: to email the show's producer the video of Darren Huff's

523
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 2: traffic stop so they could get that up on the

524
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: website within the hour. The next caller, Julian Texas, was

525
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 2: very worried about her sons. They were active duty soldiers

526
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: deployd overseas. She wasn't worried about them being in the war.

527
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: She was worried that because their deployment orders had been

528
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: issued by a false president, that they could ultimately be

529
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: liable for war crimes. I didn't listen to the rest

530
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 2: of the episode. I don't know if they resolved that,

531
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: but after Darren's rousing speech to the assembled supporters and

532
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: Carl's bold statements on a national radio show, they both

533
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: had to admit that nothing was going to happen that day.

534
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 2: Their little crowd of twenty was outnumbered three to one

535
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: by a very visible police presence, and according to Walter

536
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick's blog, a fair number of those supporters who turned

537
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: up were middle aged women, one of whom brought several

538
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: mo her children with her. Darren had a truck full

539
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: of guns and was bragging about how he had four

540
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: hundred rounds for his AK forty seven, but they just

541
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: didn't have the numbers to do anything that day. The

542
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: only time anybody actually got close to the courthouse was

543
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: when Darren huffed took a bag of biscuits over to

544
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,439
Speaker 2: a detective on the courthouse steps. By the time Fitzpatrick's

545
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: hearing was over, Darren was bored, he was tired, and

546
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: he's ready to go home. So everybody just left. Nothing happened,

547
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: Nobody got arrested.

548
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: That night.

549
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: Oath Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes saw the video Carl Swinson

550
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: posted online of Darren getting pulled over on his way

551
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: to Madisonville. The truck says oath Keepers all down one

552
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 2: side and huge letters. You really can't miss it. It's

553
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 2: the official logo of the Oath Keepers, and Rhodes called

554
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: Swinson immediately and demand did he take the video down.

555
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: It was embarrassing, and within days Rhodes himself showed up

556
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: to speak with Darren Huff in person.

557
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: He was furious.

558
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: He demanded to know why Huff was so intent on

559
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 2: making Madisonville the flash point. Now, Rhodes isn't the kind

560
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: of guy who's actually concerned about their.

561
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: Being a flash point. He wants one.

562
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: That's the whole idea, right, Eventually the militia will come

563
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: into some kind of conflict. But this wasn't the one

564
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: he wanted because he thought Darren's ideas were foolish and embarrassing,

565
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: and he revoked Darren's Oathkeeper's membership undeterred though Darren Huff

566
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: returned to Tennessee a week later. He had a paper

567
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: map of the state of Tennessee, and he'd circled the

568
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: location of the sheriff's offices in every county within a

569
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: two hour drive of Madisonville. It's not clear how many

570
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: sheriffs he actually managed to speak with, but when he

571
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: pulled into a parking lot at a county office building

572
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: in Lenore City, Tennessee, he happened to come across Louden

573
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: County Sheriff Tim Geider and Cumberland County Sheriff Butch Burgess

574
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: as they were getting out of their cars. They relate

575
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 2: for a meeting, so this conversation was short. But Huff

576
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: asked Sheriff Geiter if he'd be willing to arrest a

577
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: fellow sheriff.

578
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: At trial.

579
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: Sheriff Guiter couldn't really remember much about this brief interaction,

580
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: but he said he probably told this stranger in a

581
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: parking lot that he'd need to know more about a

582
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: situation like that in order to make a determination. But yes,

583
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: hypothetically he did have the authority to arrest another sheriff.

584
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: Darren.

585
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: Huff was trying to recruit law enforcement officers to assist

586
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: with the plan. He wasn't giving up, but he was

587
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: running out of time. Fitzpatrick's next hearing was scheduled for

588
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 2: May fourth, and he needed to find a sheriff who

589
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: would be there to take his prisoners into custody. He

590
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: must not have had much success on the twenty eighth, though,

591
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 2: because two days later, on April thirtieth, he was back

592
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: at it, driving around Tennessee looking for sheriffs who believed

593
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: in the constitution. He was up near Knoxville, when he

594
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:32,439
Speaker 2: got pulled over. This time around, there's no debate about

595
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: whether or not he ran a stop sign.

596
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: This wasn't a traffic stop. There was a federal.

597
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: Warrant for his arrest. Darren Huff was charged with violating

598
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: Title eighteen, Section two thirty one sub section A two.

599
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: And that's interesting. You probably don't believe me, but hang

600
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 2: on a second. Section two thirty one is civil disorders,

601
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: and it covers three separate crimes that don't really go together.

602
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: A one makes it a crime to teach someone else

603
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: how to make or use a gun or a bomb

604
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 2: if you know or have reason to know that they'll

605
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: use that information in furtherance of a civil disorder. A two,

606
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: which was Darren's crime, makes it illegal to transport a

607
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: firearm or a bomb across state lines if you know

608
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: or have reason to know that the gun or explosive

609
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: device is going to be used in a civil disorder.

610
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: And A three makes it illegal to be in a

611
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: cops way during a civil disorder. So that one doesn't

612
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 2: really belong right. The first two are about guns and bombs,

613
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 2: and the third one is just about annoying. But that's

614
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: the one that's really gotten to work out in the

615
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 2: last couple of years because it was used in hundreds

616
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: of January six cases. But eighteen USC. Two thirty one

617
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 2: A two is uncommon. I mean, people get charged for

618
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: doing this kind of thing, but usually they get charged

619
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: with conspiracy to do whatever it was they were going

620
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: to do when they got where they were going, and

621
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 2: then maybe they'll tack on some kind of gun crime.

622
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: And Subsection A one just doesn't make any sense at all.

623
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: There's already a whole separate law that makes it a

624
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: crime to distribute information about bombmaking, and that one has

625
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: a harsher penalty than this, So I don't know why

626
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: we need this one at all. So I was confused

627
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: by this choice of statute, and I couldn't think of

628
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: any place I'd ever seen this statute before. And it

629
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: turns out that's because I hadn't seen it before, and

630
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:04,479
Speaker 2: I still haven't even after looking pretty hard. When Darren

631
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: Huff appealed his conviction, it was noted in the appellate

632
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: record that this particular statute had actually never been construed

633
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 2: by an appellate court before, so this was the first

634
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 2: time a court of appeals was examining this statute. But

635
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 2: Just because people don't get charged with this very often

636
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: doesn't make it any less.

637
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: Of a real law.

638
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 2: And it does pretty well describe what he did because

639
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: he didn't really do anything, did he, But they were

640
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 2: really worried that he might, or at least they were

641
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 2: worried that he would continue to create situations where someone

642
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: else might because if you get enough anxious people with

643
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: guns together enough times, eventually something is going to go

644
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: wrong in a way that escalates pretty quickly. So some

645
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: federal agent or prosecutor got creative and they found a

646
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: crime because technically, yeah, he put guns in his truck

647
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: and he drove to another state. And when he was

648
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 2: doing it, the plan that he had in his mind

649
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: was that he was going to have that gun around

650
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 2: in case the county judge didn't appreciate him barging into

651
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: her courtroom. So the intent is pretty clear. He told

652
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: anyone within earshot for two weeks what he was going

653
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: to do. He wanted to lead an armed mom onto

654
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: the courthouse. He made videos about it, He told his

655
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: bank teller, he told a bunch of state troopers, he

656
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 2: gave a speech, And you don't actually have to end

657
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: up carrying out the plan. To be guilty of showing

658
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,439
Speaker 2: up to the plan with a gun, and in the end,

659
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: a jury agreed. They found Darren Huff guilty of interstate

660
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 2: transportation of a firearm with the intention to use it

661
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 2: unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder. The Sixth Circuit

662
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 2: Court of Appeals upheld the conviction, and Darren had already

663
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 2: completed his four year sentence by the time the Supreme

664
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: Court declined to hear the case in twenty sixteen. Now,

665
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: normally that's all I would really have to say about

666
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: a criminal case. We already talked all the way through

667
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 2: the actual timeline of events, so you already know what happened,

668
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: and I just told you how the trial ended. He

669
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: was convicted by a jury, appealed unsuccessfully, and served a sentence.

670
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: But this trial is really just so special. I mean,

671
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: first of all, it went to trial. That's pretty rare.

672
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, just two point three percent of

673
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: people charged with federal crimes actually went to trial.

674
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: But it's so much more than that.

675
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 2: Darren Huff really really wanted to be in the driver's

676
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: seat when it came to his criminal defense. One thing

677
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: you have to remember about Darren huff is that he's

678
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: got a little sovereign citizen in him. He seems at

679
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: times to take issue with that label. But when he

680
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 2: was asked how he felt about the gold fringe on

681
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: the flag at his trial, he was very evasive, And

682
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: in the year and a half between his arrest and

683
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 2: his trial, he kept insisting that his public defenders file

684
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 2: motions based on legal arguments that he had invented, and

685
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: when they refused to file some of the more bizarre ones,

686
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: he fired them releast he tried to. In March of

687
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 2: twenty eleven, his public defender was begging him to consider

688
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 2: the plea deal they were being offered, explaining over and

689
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 2: over again that it was the best deal he was

690
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: going to get, and the motions he was drafting on

691
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: his own just don't have any basis in the law,

692
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: and they have no legal merit, and they really seemed

693
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: to trying to explain to him that you can't just

694
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: file how you feel. There has to be case law,

695
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 2: It has to be based in something. And after months

696
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: of bitter emails back and forth about you know, we

697
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 2: can't file stuff that you made up, and Darren's accusing

698
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 2: them of working against him, and the original public defenders

699
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 2: file a motion to withdraw, saying that the relationship has

700
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: soured irreparably and they can't continue. And during this brief

701
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: period of time before a new public defender could be appointed,

702
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 2: Darren files some of those motions he wanted, the ones

703
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 2: he wrote, including one that just reads comes the defendant

704
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: in the above entitled action, Darren Wesley huff And moves

705
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 2: the court to clarify its position on the Second Amendment

706
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: US Constitution. And when his second public defender was assigned,

707
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: a man named Scott Green, there were just three months

708
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: to go before trial, and in those three months he

709
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 2: did his job. He filed motions to suppress the statements

710
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: Darren made during the traffic stop, motions to prevent the

711
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: prosecution from bringing up his extremist beliefs, the kinds of

712
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: things you'd expect to see. And he seemed to be

713
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: humoring his client when it came to some of his

714
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 2: unique ideas about the law. But like the attorneys before him,

715
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: he wasn't willing to put his name on nonsense. And

716
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 2: after another round of these emails back and forth, where

717
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: this exasperated attorney is trying to explain to him, that

718
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: motions have to be based on the law. Darren threatened

719
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 2: to fire him, writing if you do not have the

720
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: courage or kahunahs necessary to represent me, then please let

721
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: me know. I think that's supposed to say kahones, but

722
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: it says kah u ANDAs cohunas. Maybe that's a regional variation.

723
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: He meets balls.

724
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: And then email is included in this bizarre fifteen page

725
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 2: document that he submitted to the court complaining about and

726
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 2: trying to fire his lawyer. But he ends the document

727
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 2: by saying, quote, is the Second Amendment part of the Constitution?

728
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: Yes or no?

729
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: Wherefore Darren Wesley Huff moves this court to dismiss the

730
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,959
Speaker 2: indictment against him. I don't really know where to start

731
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: with that. That's really not how it works. And this

732
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 2: lawyer tried to withdraw from the case, saying, you know,

733
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: he doesn't want me to be his lawyer anymore. This

734
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: is not working out. He can't do this, and the

735
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: judge said no, they were too close to trial. They

736
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: would just have to work it out because they're going

737
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: to trial together. And Green really does seem to have

738
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: done his best here. On the eve of the trial,

739
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: he filed five separate documents, each one called mister Huff's

740
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: special request, and they were sort of fanciful jury instructions.

741
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: It probably will not surprise you that mister Green declined

742
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 2: to continue working with Darren on his appeal, and Darren's

743
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 2: attitude did not improve once he was in federal prison.

744
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: One email he sent his new lawyer, mister Gully during

745
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: the appeal starts off by accusing Gully of withholding the

746
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: trial transcripts. But they just hadn't been made yet. It

747
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,760
Speaker 2: takes a long time to produce those, but he writes

748
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: to his lawyer, I am thus left to wonder whether

749
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 2: you are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or

750
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 2: if you possibly received your degree from a remedial online school,

751
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 2: or that you simply take me for a fool. You, sir,

752
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: have made a mockery of the system that purports to

753
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 2: provide me with effective assistance of counsel. Later, in the

754
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 2: same email, he explains to his lawyer that the government

755
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 2: can't charge him with a gun crime because he exists

756
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: outside of the federal government's jurisdiction on such matters, and

757
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: then he threatens to have his attorney indicted, disbarred, and institutionalized.

758
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: Mister Gully's response to this letter doesn't seem to be

759
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: in the appellate record, but from what I can see,

760
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: he did the best he could with a losing case.

761
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: We'd be doing episodes about Walter Fitzpatrick and his entourage

762
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: for weeks if I told you every weird thing that

763
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 2: I found. But I can't resist just a few more,

764
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 2: if you'll indulge me. When Fitzpatrick finally did get arraigned

765
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 2: in Monroe County for that original April first attempt to

766
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: arrest the grand jury foreman, it did not go well.

767
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 2: The judge that he'd accused of treason was presiding, and

768
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: as she's flipping through the exhibits, sort of glancing over

769
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: the paperwork and the citizens erect Warrens, she noted that

770
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: the court clerk, miss Cook, was accused by Fitzpatrick of

771
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 2: some pretty serious crimes. And so the judge turns to

772
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: the clerk who's there in the courtroom, and says, miss Cook,

773
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 2: have you been levying war against the United States? And

774
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: the clerk says, I don't think so, your honor, And

775
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: I wish that I had an audio recording of this.

776
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 2: I just have the transcript but Fitzpatrick is having a

777
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 2: lot of outbursts during this hearing, and at this point

778
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: he says, are you making fun of me? Is that

779
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: what's going on here? Am I being mocked? And they

780
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: just ignore him and continue the proceeding. I would have

781
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: loved to have seen it, and I wish the officer

782
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: who testified at a Huff's trial had been more specific

783
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 2: about exactly who it was that he overheard Darren Huff

784
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: talking to. In the morning of April twentieth, outside Donna's Cafe,

785
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: Huff had a quiet conversation with someone about calling off

786
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: the operation that day. The officer did mention that Huff

787
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: was speaking to a man with a revolver on his hip,

788
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: and that the man had gotten out of a pt

789
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: cruiser with Georgia license plates.

790
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: Carl Swenson's from Georgia.

791
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 2: But I know Carl Swenson was driving a two thousand

792
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: and nine Honda Civic Hybrid that day, trust me, I checked.

793
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: I have got a state trooper on tape calling in

794
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: his plates when they saw him on the highway. And

795
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: in his blog, Walter Fitzpatrick thanked by name most of

796
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,959
Speaker 2: the people who showed up there that day and most

797
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 2: of them were women, and very few of them were

798
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: from Georgia. But we do know for sure that Bill Luhman,

799
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 2: a Marine Corps veteran and crane operator from Waco, Georgia,

800
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,360
Speaker 2: was there that day. And you'd be a fool to

801
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: believe Bill Lowman would walk as far as his own

802
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 2: mailbox without a gun. So if I had to put

803
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: money on it, I think the person Darren Huff was

804
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: making tactical decisions with was the same man who'd accompanied

805
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 2: him to Walter's house two weeks earlier when they put

806
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 2: this whole plan together, a fellow member of the Georgia

807
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: Militia and the Oathkeepers. Now, my main wheelhouse is not

808
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: the Militia movement, so I can't say I'm surprised. I'd

809
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 2: never heard of Bill Luhman before, and I didn't have

810
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 2: any real prior knowledge about the Georgia Militia. But in

811
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: some old blog posts Luhman is referred to as a

812
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 2: leader in the Georgia Militia. That may have just been

813
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: his local chapter. There were at least a dozen units

814
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: around the state of this larger group calling itself the

815
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 2: Georgia Militia, and his name does not appear in the

816
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: court record for the four members of the Georgia Militia

817
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: who were arrested in twenty eleven for a plot that

818
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 2: included plans to blow up the Federal building in Atlanta

819
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: and maybe murder government officials with Risin. And just a

820
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 2: side note, if you do try to google Georgia white

821
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 2: supremacist rice In attack, the more recent result you'll get

822
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: is for an unrelated white supremacist plot to carry out

823
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: a biological terrorist attack. In that case, in twenty seventeen,

824
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 2: a neo Nazi had actually successfully created the deadly poison,

825
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: but he accidentally exposed himself to it, so he showed

826
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 2: up at the emergency room before he could actually hurt

827
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: anybody else. But this is not that one. This is

828
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 2: the one from twenty eleven. But again, Bill Luhman nothing

829
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: to do with the rice In attacks, just the same militia.

830
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 2: And I found an old event for a tea party

831
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 2: picnic in North Carolina in twenty thirteen that list. Luman

832
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 2: is a speaker and his title in the program is

833
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 2: Constitutionalist icon from Georgia, and he appeared on stage with

834
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 2: such heroes of the patriot movement as James Renwick. Manship

835
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: that name is not familiar to you, I'm sure, but

836
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: you might remember the photo of the guy in the

837
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 2: George Washington costume wading into the reflecting pool at the

838
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 2: Capitol during the January sixth riot as a sort of

839
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 2: symbolic crossing the Delaware moment. But my favorite Manship moment

840
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: is the time he showed up at my local library

841
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 2: dressed as Thomas Jefferson and refused to break character as

842
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: he ranted in the first person about how he never

843
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 2: had sexual relations with enslaved women. And Bill Luman is

844
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 2: very much still around and active in the same kinds

845
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: of conspiracy spaces. He posts, give or take one hundred

846
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 2: times a day every day on Trump's Truth social platform,

847
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: and all of his posts are in all caps. He

848
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 2: starts every day by posting this message, good morning patriots

849
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: and grassroots warriors that are standing up for our constitution

850
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: and precious way of life. Good morning to all veterans

851
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 2: that serve honorably sempify my fellow marines. May America bless

852
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: God again into our nation, our homes, and our heart's

853
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 2: heart emoji. Seriously, he posts that every morning. He's very

854
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 2: committed and he still thinks Barack Obama is a Kenyan

855
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 2: born Muslim. He still posts a lot about hanging people

856
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: for treason, but the reasons have shifted, you know, COVID, Ukraine,

857
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 2: election fraud whatever. As I'm writing this right now, he's

858
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: still posting. He posted a picture of a marine shaking

859
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: hands with the dog, and there was a post this

860
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 2: evening that was a screenshot from Braveheart with the text

861
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 2: confirm Matt Gates or else written over mel Gibson's face.

862
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: His last post was a thread documenting the progress of

863
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 2: his homemade banana upbread. At the time of recording, I

864
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: can report that he added cream cheese icing to it

865
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:27,440
Speaker 2: and it was quote stellar. He's pretty popular over their

866
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 2: own truth social He was even retruthed last year by

867
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 2: Donald Trump himself after posting some incoherent theory about stolen

868
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:39,319
Speaker 2: votes from the twenty twenty election. Well, he wasn't retruthed,

869
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 2: he was quote truthed.

870
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 1: Whatever.

871
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 2: The truth social equivalent of a quote tweet is Lumann

872
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 2: had suggested that the people responsible for the dominion voting

873
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: machines should be tried for treason, and Trump quoted the post,

874
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: adding a lot has been made of this lately.

875
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 1: What do you think.

876
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: And that must have been a huge day for Bill.

877
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 2: The post went pretty viral, a lot of the keyboard

878
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 2: warriors out here posting seventeen memes a day about January six.

879
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 2: Political prisoners absolutely still believe Barack Obama was born in Kenya,

880
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: and Walter Fitzpatrick went on to try his whole citizens

881
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: arrest thing in neighboring McMinn County too. He was eventually

882
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: convicted of perjury and extortion there, as well as getting

883
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: some more charges in Monroe County after he stole the

884
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 2: grand jury roles. Those stolen documents were located by the

885
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: FBI in the Connecticut home of Sharon Rondeau, the conspiracy

886
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 2: theory blogger whose commitment to questioning the citizenship of politicians

887
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: has remained strong over the years. She is still asking

888
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 2: questions about Ilhan Omar and Kamala Harris. Fitzpatrick published a

889
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: memoir last year about his quest for justice in his

890
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four Marshall. I didn't read it. It's like

891
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: four hundred pages long. He's in his seventies now and

892
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 2: he still occasionally updates his blog, jag Hunters. The most

893
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: recent post is just a link to someone else's video

894
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: and it's just like a mind numbing thirty minute mashup

895
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: of clips.

896
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 1: I can't even really explain it.

897
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 2: It's like actual footage of Trump rallies mixed in with

898
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: like myplow commercials, a TikTok video of someone doing the macarena,

899
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 2: but the lyrics have been changed to be about Donald Trump.

900
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I tapped out when it got.

901
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 2: To a clip of Russell Brand praying with Tucker Carlson.

902
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: I guess what I'm getting at here is these guys

903
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: don't go away. The cause of the day changes, whether

904
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 2: it's nine to eleven truth, eartherism, COVID, denial, q Andon,

905
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 2: stop the Steal. But it's a lot of the same

906
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 2: core ideas, and it's a lot of the same individual guise.

907
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 2: In one newspaper photo of Walter Fitzpatrick outside of the

908
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 2: courthouse after a hearing in McMinn County in twenty fourteen,

909
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: the man standing next to him is Field McConnell. And

910
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: Field McConnell is a former commercial airline pilot who retired

911
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six after refusing to submit to

912
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 2: a neurological exam. He had become obsessed with the idea

913
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 2: that nine to eleven was an inside job, and was

914
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 2: convinced that Boeing had rigged all of their planes with

915
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 2: explosives and they were planning an upcoming nine to eleven

916
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: style attack. In twenty nineteen, he got really into QAnon.

917
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: An attorney in Florida who represents the family of a

918
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: missing child had to get a restraining order against him

919
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 2: after he made a series of YouTube videos threatening to

920
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,920
Speaker 2: kill her and accusing her of having trafficked the missing child.

921
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 2: The day I'm recording this, he was a guest on

922
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: a podcast hosted by a small scale QAnon influencer. I

923
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,280
Speaker 2: would tell you what they talked about, but it kind

924
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: of sounded like he was calling in from the bottom

925
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 2: of the ocean.

926
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: This episode took.

927
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: Me days longer to write than it should have, because

928
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: every new name I turned up in the comments on

929
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old blog post took me on some long,

930
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: strange path that some character in this story had taken

931
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 2: in the year. Since there are no lone wolves, no

932
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 2: one is self radicalizing in a vacuum. People don't just

933
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 2: wake up one day and drive three hours with a

934
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 2: camcorder and a truck full of guns for no reason

935
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 2: at all. And with each passing week, as I immerse

936
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 2: myself in the archives, piecing together one weird little guy's

937
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 2: story at a time, the clearer the connective tissue between

938
01:00:55,440 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 2: them becomes. But for all the weird twists, and in

939
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 2: this strange tale of the Birther militia trying to take

940
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 2: over a small town in Tennessee, the best thing I

941
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 2: found buried in all of these documents was this moment

942
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 2: from the trial when Darren Huff took the stand himself.

943
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 2: The prosecutor had asked him about some business cards that

944
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: he made after his arrest. On the front, it said

945
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 2: Darren Huff, right wing extremist and potential domestic terrorist, and

946
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 2: on the back there was a picture of a gun.

947
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: So on cross examination, Huff's defense attorney was trying to

948
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 2: elicit testimony that would show the jury that those business

949
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: cards were obviously a joke, that this was just his

950
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 2: sense of humor. So he asked Darren about some shirts,

951
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 2: and Darren gave the following answer. I had a friend

952
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 2: who had a T shirt shop, and I said, can

953
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: you make me a couple of shirts, because apparently this

954
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: government wants to label me. The first one that he

955
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: had made me said, I am the god fearing, gun toting,

956
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: flag waving right wing extremists the government warned you about.

957
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: And the other one said, I finally made homeland Securities

958
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: potential domestic terrorists, watched list, and all I got was

959
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 2: this lousy T shirt. Obviously the point behind them was

960
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 2: for humor, and they have been received as such. Another

961
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: one that was one of my initial shirts said, patriotism

962
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 2: is not a spectator sport. And then there's something that

963
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 2: I have never seen an official federal court transcript before,

964
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 2: as this big bearded militia man is describing his funny

965
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 2: terrorism shirts. The court reporter types in parentheses witness crying.

966
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: She put it on the record that he cried.

967
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 2: Weird Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media

968
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 2: and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written and recorded by me, Molly Conger.

969
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The

970
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan. The

971
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 2: theme music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email

972
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: me at Weird Little Guys Podcast at gmail dot com.

973
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: I will definitely read it, but I almost certainly will

974
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: not answer it. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the

975
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit.

976
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 2: Just don't post anything that's going to make you one

977
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 2: of my Weird Little Guys