WEBVTT - Did the CIA test LSD on unsuspecting Americans? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.640 It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:12.960 from house stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:24.880 the podcast. I'm Josh. This is Chuck Chuck m I 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.360 am Chuck. I'm here. I'm going to prepare today as usual. 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.279 That kind of method approached the podcasting. Now I know 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.080 what you're getting at now I did not. You're just 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.760 feeling a little hinky or I'm hinky. That's I like that. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.280 That's what I'm hinky. Can you pull yourself together? I'm together, 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.680 I'm with it. I am I'm fine. This is this 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.320 is kind of an important one. It's a little out there, 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:47.680 but it's all true. It is okay, So you're fine, 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:49.839 I'm fine, I'm good. Let's do it. Well, we're talking 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:54.160 today about a certain set of experiments carried out by 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.280 a certain government agency is known as the CIA. Yes, 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.440 and they, uh, they carried out an experiment with another 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.920 three letter word LSD right on unsuspecting Americans. Yeah. I 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.240 think most people, uh would not expect to hear those 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.200 six letters together in the same sentence. And this is 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.560 not widely known, so no, it really isn't, and frankly 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.319 it should be. And I think it's kind of one 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.520 of those things that uh supports just about every American's 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.640 notion of what the CIA is up to at any 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.560 given time. And yet it's just so out there, so 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.760 fantastic that they actually did this that it's kind of 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.360 hard to believe. But this is documented. This actually happened. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.559 It didn't. Okay, do you want to give a little 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.760 background first? Uh, well, um, how about you tell us 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.080 how we know that this stuff happened. Well, because it's 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:50.680 on record. It's actually factually on record. Um. Yeah, there 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:53.360 are a couple of congressional hearings on it exactly. And 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:55.800 this is what amazes me is this happened in the 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:00.320 nineteen fifties, which is even less likely because you think 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.000 about LSD acid as they call it as the kids 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.800 call it, You think about the nineteen seventies and or 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.000 l sixties and wood stock, But it was actually in 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.880 the nineteen fifties when it was first being experimented with. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:16.000 And we're talking the early fifties to um. Apparently we 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.800 were really you know, full on into the Cold War, 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.239 and um, we believed everything we heard about the Russians. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.360 We apparently the c I A Uh found out that 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.360 the Russians were involved in some sort of truth serum 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:35.560 mind constroced mind Controlmenturian candidate experiments, right. Uh. And they 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.480 found out that the Swiss pharmaceutical company that will ring 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.800 a bell of um the people who've taken acid and 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:46.520 listen to our podcast Sandoz Pharmaceuticals. Um. They had this 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.240 stuff that was first created by a Swiss chemist named 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:54.960 Albert Hoffman. It was LSD and uh. They apparently had 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:00.080 a hundred thousand hits one million, hundred million hits a 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.480 bowl to anyone who wanted to buy it was on 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:05.120 the open market. They were legitimate pharmaceutical company. And this 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.240 is back when as a lot of people don't know, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:12.480 LSD was an actual legitimate pharmaceutical. It was also often 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:17.280 used later on for um therapy. Did you know that? Uh? Well, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.880 in in the States, Carrie Grant was huge, huge in 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:23.880 the acid I kid you not my friend. He he 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.919 took many a trip and he actually I can't remember 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:28.600 who he's married to. It may have been me, a 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.600 pharaoh or somebody. He he essentially chased her off by 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:36.000 being so insistent about his wife undergoing acid therapy LSD 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.720 therapy that she was like, you're a freak. I could 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.160 see that. Yeah, So okay, so we're let's get back 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:44.040 to the sand. Does thing forget carry grant? Yeah, they've 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.360 got a hundred million hits of acid on the market, 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.320 which I mean really, the c I heard this and 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.600 they're thinking, okay, a hundred million hits. They could take 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.360 out New York l A. The Russians could get this 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:56.760 into the water supply, and all of a sudden, we 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.600 have a population that's not listening to us anymore. Right, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.600 I guess they were. They wanted to create some sort 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.880 of chaos or mass hysteria or something like that, or 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:09.520 at worst, like the Manchurian candidate program, unwitting assassins who 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.280 you know, carried out these murders and had no recollection 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.600 of doing it or being programmed. So they're like these 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.040 perfect assassins. Right. They kind of suspected that LSD might 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:21.000 help with that kind of thing. So uh, when the 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.360 CIA hears that these these hits are on the market, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.000 they scrambled to buy them. That's what it turns out. 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.000 There is only Yeah, how much think in the US, 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:32.080 good old U S government said we'll take all of them. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.440 So they bought forty hits of LSD acid in hand. 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.599 They start carrying out their own horrific experiments. They went camping. No, 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.240 I'm just kidding, all right. They built campfires, they went 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:48.440 they that's how a burning man actually started. UM. So 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.640 they they they they have all this acid and they say, well, okay, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:54.360 we have to figure out how to make our own 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.440 Manchurian candidates and figure out how to use this as 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.200 a truth thereom ourselves. It just so happened that this 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:02.839 this acid was purchased at a time that the CIA 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:08.160 launched this UM project called MK Ultra. And this project 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:12.040 was huge. Actually doesn't stand for anything. No I I 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.720 never found it either. It doesn't stand There were some 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.599 other projects like MK projects that did stand for things, 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:22.040 but Ultra it didn't stand for anything, which is unusual. UM. 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.400 So they carry out MK Ultra, which is a hundred 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:29.120 and forty nine subprojects, and it's this vast range of 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.200 basically figure out how to get into people's minds um 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.599 or kill them like one apparently they had magicians come 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.320 in and t CIA operatives. How do you slide of 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:42.600 hand and poison people's drinks. Yeah, I can. I can 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:45.279 virtually guarantee you a lot of magicians were shot in 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.200 the back of the head after they gave that class. 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:52.240 That was during the big magic freeze of the Yeah, yeah, 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.560 that would account for it. That was one subproject. Another 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.920 was UM using electro convulsive therapy to get people to tall, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.760 which I'm sure was a lot of fun but it 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.000 worked too. Yeah, there was radiation treatments. They wanted to 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.880 see how much radiation people who could be exposed to UM. 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.599 And this is actually one of the more horrific aspects 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.960 of it. There there's a video on YouTube if you, 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:21.040 I think type in something like a MK ultra testimony 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.520 or radiation testimony. There is a woman who's testifying at 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.560 a hearing I think it's one of the nineteen seventies 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.160 hearings UM, and she's talking about how she I think 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.719 she was an orphan and she and everybody else in 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.680 the orphanage were made to be test subjects by the 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.360 by the c I A not on LSD, but like 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.000 radiation and all that, and it's just clearly broken. She's 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.720 a broken person. Now she's much older by this time, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.080 and it's just crazy to see somebody who actually was 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.120 experimented on. She's an American who has all these rights 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.160 and just got thrown out the window. Well yeah, and 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.640 I know that they experimented on prisoners a lot too. Yeah, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.520 specifically black prisoners. So here's where we get into some 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.360 of the shadier LSD experiments. That's one of them. They 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:09.440 go into a black prison and basically against the inmates, 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.560 will as far as I know, uh, test LSD on them. Now, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.640 imagine taking LSD in prison, right, I can't think of 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:20.640 anything worse than that, combo. Uh. And and these were, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.520 like I said, this was an all black prison, um, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.640 and it was just bad. That's just a bad experiment. 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:31.320 Another one was they they lured heroin uh junkies. Yeah. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.320 I love this one too because and how did they 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:37.000 lure them? They paid them in heroin. The CIA paid 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.080 these people in heroin. And this is again documented fact. Uh. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.080 There are a lot of other experiments going on. And 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:45.680 actually the stuff was so rampant, as you know, Chuck, 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.400 that the CIA actually developed an acid culture for a 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:54.320 while and within their own Uh yeah, they used to 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:57.160 dose one another at parties. Um. They used to take 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.960 it themselves recreationally, like get any been like LSD conference 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.400 retreat something like that. The people were probably running around 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.320 on acid, I know, you know, reading your article, it 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.400 seemed almost unreal. Yeah, clearly, and it sounded like the 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.200 nineteen fifties and the CIA. It was almost like a prank, like, 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.320 you know, hey, agent nine, let's just go drop some 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.040 acid in agent drink there. That's almost precisely what happened. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.840 And there'd be like a group who dosed somebody and 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:27.920 then everybody would be watching them and like a half 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.720 hour later that the joke will beyond him. He'd spend 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.360 the next you know, eight to twelve hours just or whatever. Yeah. U. So, yeah, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.199 the CIA was well versed in the in how it 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.200 felt to take acid, But the CIA operative isn't the 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:48.000 average American, So they wanted to experiment on a normal people, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:53.200 and I'd say normal kind of unwillingly because they did 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.920 have a certain criteria of who could be targeted for it. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.319 So they went to kind of the semi under belly 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.920 of cities and they found like hookers and junkies and 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:09.040 uh who else, Um, well, the guy the pornographers. Yeah, 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.320 the guy who found these folks posts a pimp? Is 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:15.400 that right? Yeah? An alternate personality. Let's talk about these people. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.800 All right. There's this guy, all right, his name is 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:22.480 Dr Sidney Gottlie. This guy has a club foot. He 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.600 overcame an almost debilitating stutter, and he went on to 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.240 become the chief of the Technical division for the CIA. Now, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.400 this guy's greatest hits among you know, carrying out the 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:39.040 LSD experiments, was developing agent orange, another drug that he 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.920 had tested by the people who were conducting the CIA 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.000 or the LSD tests UM eventually gave way to erectile 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:50.120 this function drugs Um. He did a lot of crazy 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:55.839 stuff and some less uh less solid evidence can puts 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.160 him in Africa at the time that Ebola broke out 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.920 of nowhere. Maybe not a coincidence there, Yeah, No, is 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:03.960 he a medical doctor? Was he? He was? He was? 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.160 He was a medical doctor. He was probably from what 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:11.320 I understand him, he probably had several doctorates to different degrees, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:13.920 and I think he was also Now he may have 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:15.680 been a chemist actually now I think about it, but 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:19.880 I think he did have a medical training as well. Uh. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.480 That's that's the guy who's running the head of this 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.280 he's the head of this experiment. UM right right below him, 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:31.720 is one of the most legendary characters you will ever 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.839 hear about in your life. George Hunter White. They need 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.240 to make a biopic film about this guy. I can't 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:42.560 believe they haven't already. Um. He originally White originally started out. Um. 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.600 He really first made a name for himself by posing 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.800 as a heroin trafficker um for the better part of 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.959 the nineteen thirties and busting up this Chinese opium ring. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.000 And he took down hundreds of people. But to get there, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.200 I mean, like, I'm sure he had to smoke opium 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:04.800 quite frequently. Um, And he basically infiltrated this. He took 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.480 a blood oath with this Chinese gang he was in, 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.960 and he eventually took him down. Uh. So that's how 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.880 he made a name for himself. Uh. But he he 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.400 didn't really, I hate to use this cliche. He didn't 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.720 play by the rules. Not only did he not play 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.640 by the rules, the guys totally amoral. He was a 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.400 completely amoral, a bit of a rogue agent. Yeah. I 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.040 think he just kind of went whichever way, his his 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:33.439 um his all whichever way pretty much. Yeah, because he 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.800 was definitely one of the ones who took the acid right. Um, 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.680 so it all starts with him. Like the most that 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.480 we know about the LSD experiments, they go back to 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:46.040 George Hunter White. So White gets tapped by Gottlieb to 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.240 carry out these experience experiments, and it all starts in 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.960 New York. He didn't have a safe house or anything 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.800 like this. This guy was doing these experiments on his 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.480 friends at first in his apartment in New York, basically 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.600 having acid parties without telling them that they were going 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.280 to be taking acid. And actually you could argue that 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.800 George Hunter White held the first acid parties in the 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.319 history of the earth. Um. This guy was really he'd 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.200 make up batches of Martinis um and serve them to 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:17.040 his guests. And of course the picture of Martini was 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.040 spiked to god knows how much LSD well. That's one 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.640 of the things who I was wondering is at the 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.160 time they were just starting to experiment, so they didn't 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.760 even know what was a full dose, what what it 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.800 would do. I mean, this is how they found out. Yeah, um, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:35.480 and and he had a he had a terminology for, um, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.400 what happened if you had a bad trip. He called 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:39.760 it the horrors. One of the reasons we know so 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.160 much about this is because George White kept a diary 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.680 of notes um that for his experiments, at least to 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:50.040 maintain some semblance of experimentation. He took notes on it. Um. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.319 But yeah, so he'd serve his guests martinis, right, and 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.480 then just sit back and take notes. After it started 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.000 kicking in. There was a whole subgroup of close friends 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.480 of his that were actually in a certainly recruited and 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:04.240 they would bring their friends and he actually had this 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:09.120 kind of um swinger social group um and swinger by 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.000 every definition of the word. White apparently was into Spike 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.240 Hilled boots. He'd do anything for a woman in Spike 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.240 Hill Boots. Um. Who know, right. His friends were just 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:25.439 imagine like the the fifties shade ball porno swinger groups. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.400 And this is what White was at the center, except 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.920 he was, unbeknownst to all of his friends, a CIA 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.880 operative experimenting on lst need to be a film in 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.280 the works. I would go that would Uh, So he's 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.840 carrying out experiments and again there was a certain subgroup 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.520 of friends who loved it. They years later, um, in 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.920 the nineties, a lot of this this information came out 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.080 and it just fell to the wayside for reasons I 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.640 can't understand, um, but there a lot of them were like, 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:58.720 we loved acid. George loved acid, Like we just took 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.680 acid all time. Some people didn't like acid. Though exactly 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.040 can go one of two ways generally when it comes 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:07.040 to yeah, there's not really a middle ground of a 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:11.360 think now. Um, So there's this one woman in particular 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.400 named Barbara Newsome. I felt terrible and she was like 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.760 a young mother, and um, she was married, and her 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.880 husband was actually kind of this, um, kind of a 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.560 cad from what I understand, Um, he was part of 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.560 White's little swinger group, but I also got the impression 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.240 that was kind of peripheral. Wanted to be in further, 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.200 but they just didn't think too highly of him. But 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.000 White thought his wife was pretty hot. So he waits 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.920 till her husband's out of town and invites her over. 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:45.720 And Barbara Newsome was not really hip to what was 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.920 going on. She had a young kid, She had a 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.280 twenty month old baby that she brought to the party, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.680 so she clearly did not know what was gonna totally 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:55.720 unaware of what was going on. So White, um doses 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:59.160 here anyway, right, and the part of The problem was 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.200 white quickly got bored, especially if you were on a 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.640 bad trip. He had no there was no padded room 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.680 that he took you to, or he didn't hand you 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.400 like a hash pipe or anything like that. You were 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.200 on your own. He wanted you out of his hair, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.280 and that was that. So it was a big bummer 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.960 for him, I guess exactly. At the very least, it 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.840 made him irritable. So he'd turned you out on the street, 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:26.360 just tripping your head off, and um that that's that's 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.560 what became a Barbara Knewsome. She was turned out on 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.040 the street. She had a bad trip, and she went home. 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.120 She never told anybody about it. Um. Her husband later 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.600 pieces together. They eventually divorced, but he didn't even know 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.520 what happened to her. No, I don't think she had 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.040 a clue what happened to her. She she became depressed, 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.280 her marriage fell apart. She ended up being committed on 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.120 and off for the next twenty years. Um. And also 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:54.080 again from from the research I did, she was probably 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.080 a little more fragile than the average person, and it 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.440 made something else could have happened to her in her 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.680 life that that put her through this. The fact is 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:06.040 this woman was experimented on. It's documented facts. She she 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.600 was one of White's test subjects and her life fell apart, right, Sure, 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.120 she kind of represents the bad side of these experiments. Yeah, 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.680 I would say that's definitely the bad side. And one 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.000 person died, isn't that correct? Yeah? Dr Frank Olsen, Yeah, 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.960 his son really has taken up the charge of trying 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:28.640 to get the truth exposed. His father is definitely documented 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.160 as having been tested on at one of those parties. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.920 And now imagine like his father was an army scientists, 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.320 a research scientists whose specialty was in delivering poisons through aerosols. 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.040 He was a lab orate. He probably, I imagine if 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.640 social skills weren't as quite refined as maybe whites or 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.840 anybody else's. Uh, he goes to this party and um, 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:56.800 they they give him a shot of dost quantroux and 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.160 he does not handle it well. Now and this is 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.320 it Thanksgiving to He's around things. These guys clearly had 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.000 no qualms about. You know this one lady had a baby. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.200 This guy so the holidays and he skipped Thanksgiving with 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.560 his family because he was so freaked out. Hey, they 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:15.000 actually contacted the closest CIA approved doctor who was I 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.119 think a pediatrist or something like that, and but he 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.960 was the closest physician. I think the guy was in Virginia, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.399 which is close by to where this this c I 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.520 A army conference took place. And so Dr Olsen's just 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.440 freaking out and he's doing it very loudly. I think 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.760 he kind of took everybody off guard with his reaction 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.320 to the l s T. They bring this doctor, and 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.480 the doctors like, this guy needs some serious care and 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.000 basically we need to kidnap him. And he has corns 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:45.520 on his feet. Write a boots is always notices those things. Yeah, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:49.840 well yeah, how it's his training. So um, they basically 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.719 sequester this guy. They call his family and say, your 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.359 husband isn't going to be home for Thanksgiving. He can't 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.399 make it. Basically, don't ask any questions or any Thanksgiving. 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.680 As it turns out, right, eight days after his bad trip, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.680 he goes out the tenth story window of a hotel 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:13.359 in New York and um, it was apparently suicide. That's 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.879 how it was ruled. But years later, I think in 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.320 or four, his son who actually started a website, the 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:24.600 Frank Olsen Project, very interesting stuff. He um he had 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.320 his father's body exhumed and there was evidence of pre 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.480 mortem blunt forest trauma to the head, which kind of suggests, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.400 you know, this guy was probably murdered. And a couple 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.000 of years after the body was exhumed, Mike Feldman, who 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.760 posed as the pimp, will get to him in a second. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.600 In an interview with Spin magazine, he said, you know, 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.360 George Hunter White was doing the asset tests in New 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:52.520 York at the time. This guy went out of the 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.320 hotel window in New York. So you know, you don't 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.879 have to put you put two and two together. No 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.639 one ever has definitively, but you know, it kind of 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.680 seems like the kind of guy White was, he didn't 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.040 seem to have qualms about stuff like, so, okay, New 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.440 York's over, Yeah, this is this is where it gets good. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.760 And it was sort of predictable when you look back. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:15.479 But they moved the operation to an actually a funded 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:19.879 place in San Francisco of the the apartment called the Path, 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.720 that's literally it was called the Pad. And basically I 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.560 get the impression that White left his swinging social scene 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.520 and his wife behind in New York and he goes 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.840 and takes the show on the road by himself in 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.919 San Francisco. And at first, UM, let me describe the 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:38.600 pad real quick. It's this little apartment with the kind 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.000 of bohemian art on the walls and yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.000 but it was probably pretty close. Um. One of the 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.240 one of the main features is a two way mirror 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:52.840 with a little hollowed out room behind it. Um, and 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.120 that looked out onto the main living room. Okay, So 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.760 basically White used to take a bunch of acid and 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.800 he would pose as either a merchant, seaman or like 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.800 some sort of starving artists, and he'd go into San 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:11.159 Francisco and basically find the prostitutes and the john's and um, 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.720 the drug dealers, and he'd round them up and bring 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:16.119 them back to his place and just dose him with acids. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.520 And they didn't feel bad because they consider these people 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.120 just the dregs of society. They figured they are degenerates anyway. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.879 But you know, I think that there's probably a pretty 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.240 wide threshold of you know, who was fair game and 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.679 he wasn't. Like I'm sure if you were caught with 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.080 a Nudi mag under your mattress and you were married, 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.280 they would have considered you fair game degenerator. Here's some 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.160 and here's some acid. Yeah all right, So, um, at first, 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.800 White surrounding all these people up right, and he's basically 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.479 just partying with him in San Francisco on acids. Right. 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:51.200 Eventually he recruits Ike Feldman, that guy that we mentioned 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:55.800 who did that Sin magazine interview. And Ike Feldman is 0:20:55.880 --> 0:21:01.280 just a badass. He is a tough, grit old old 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.679 the fringe of the law cop right. He does whatever. 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.840 He's like the model for Vic Mackie from the Shield. 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.320 Whatever has to be done to get the job done. Whatever, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.240 it doesn't matter how many times you break the law, 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.600 if at the end you're bringing in the bad guy 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:20.280 or whatever. So he gets recruited by White, who basically 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.680 um goes and takes his rightful place behind the two 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.800 way mirror to watch how Feldman brings in the prostitutes 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.120 and the John's and it got a little freaky from there. Yeah, 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:33.920 and you know, it kind of made me wonder if 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:37.760 the whole uh culture of San Francisco was kind of 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:42.280 known in the sixties as you know, the counterculture, the revolution, 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:45.600 the free love, the Summer of Love, if the c 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:49.479 I actually kind of helped create this in the nineteen fifties. 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:53.040 I can tell you most decidedly it did. Uh. And 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.560 the reason why, here's the punch line of the whole thing. This, 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.720 this is just this makes this whole thing beautiful and elegant, 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.040 as a mathematician would put it. One of the people 0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:08.400 who signed up for the legitimate experiments, actually, I think 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.800 it was at a v A hospital or something was 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.159 a fellow by the name of ken Kesey. Ken kezi 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.080 U was an orderly at a mental hospital at the time. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:21.360 He was basically researching Um for his later book One 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.040 Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Casey's other came claim to 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.800 fame was he was the founder of the Mary Pranksters, 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.320 and the Mary Pranksters hung out with the Hell's Angels, 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:33.680 the Grateful Dead, wrote around in a in a colorful 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.399 bus and basically we're the establishment of the hippie movement. 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.240