Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done.
Speaker 1: Yay, that's messed up an SVU podcast. I am Liza
Speaker 1: Tragger and I'm Kara Klank and by now hopefully you
Speaker 1: know what's going on here. It's SVU, it's true crime,
Speaker 1: it's interviews with celebs, to be honest, and today's a
Speaker 1: really good one. But first, wow, I have I can't
Speaker 1: see Okay, tell me, okay, okay, So I feel like
Speaker 1: you have a more exciting life than me. You always
Speaker 1: have fun stories, and I finally feel like it's my
Speaker 1: moment in the sun. Okay, have fun stories, have fun
Speaker 1: story No, I know, I know, I know, but okay.
Speaker 1: So I mentioned this on the pod a few weeks
Speaker 1: ago that I was going to see Ama Dais at
Speaker 1: the Pasadena Playhouse starring Jefferson Mace, friend of the Pod
Speaker 1: aka doctor Carl Rudnick.
Speaker 4: Okay, so the week or so before, I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, you know what, I'm just gonna like see if
Speaker 1: he wants to, like, say hi after the show, right,
Speaker 1: so I email his publicists and I'm just like, hey,
Speaker 1: I interviewed your client a year ago on my podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm going I already have tickets. I'm not asking for
Speaker 1: anything free. I was like, I would love to pop
Speaker 1: in and say hi after the show. She was like,
Speaker 1: he would love to see you. I was like, I
Speaker 1: was gagged.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: I also did see the photo and I would like
Speaker 2: to say, Jared going gray, I think is a great look.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Do you feel that way or are you
Speaker 1: not into it? Yeah? Because you know what, he was
Speaker 1: already so blonde that it's so it's so gradual, like
Speaker 1: it's kind of.
Speaker 2: Like because I haven't seen him in a long time.
Speaker 2: And I was, yeah, I was like, this is a
Speaker 2: good look.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's going good for it because
Speaker 1: he kind of still has a baby case.
Speaker 2: I just now that I mentioned your husband, I obviously
Speaker 2: think of Kumel the new star of White Lotus. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean and then in my hat him like that's
Speaker 2: the biggest deal ever and that I remember he's like Marvel,
Speaker 2: like he is famous, but like I just can't even Amerine.
Speaker 1: I know, but I texted his wife yesterday, who's like
Speaker 1: my good friend, and I was like, I'm I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm simultaneously feel betrayed that you didn't tell me, but
Speaker 1: also know fully well that you could never have told me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for realizing that, because I was like, that's
Speaker 1: so huge. But I texted him congrats, and I think
Speaker 1: that he's over the moon, like so excited. And France,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they're gonna be near Kahn, They're gonna
Speaker 1: being con They're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have this time with the Times. It's gonna be amazing.
Speaker 2: All right, get back. Okay, so you're at the Pasadena Playhouse.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm at the Pasadena Playhouse and we see
Speaker 1: the show, and I'm gonna I honestly, maybe the best
Speaker 1: play I've ever seen in my entire life, Like I
Speaker 1: have never seen amadeis the movie I have never seen.
Speaker 1: I don't I've never watched the play. Like it was
Speaker 1: so good. The stage picture, like the last thing I
Speaker 1: saw there was Kate with You, right, Like so Kate
Speaker 1: Berlance One Woman Show awesome, but like pretty much a
Speaker 1: black stage with like a projection up during certain points.
Speaker 1: This was like scrims and projections in the back and
Speaker 1: like this awesome two floor set where like people keep
Speaker 1: appearing almost like ghosts at the top. Like it was
Speaker 1: like really fantastic. And Jefferson Mays is the star of
Speaker 1: the damn show. It's called Amadaeus because it's it is
Speaker 1: about Mozart, but he plays Salieri and like if you
Speaker 1: don't know the show, it's basically like it's basically like
Speaker 1: they're both composers, and Saliary realizes that.
Speaker 4: The photos he looks incredible. This wig.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he realizes that Mozart is like a god given
Speaker 1: talent like and so he basically makes it his mission
Speaker 1: to like ruin him so that he can be It's
Speaker 1: like but he but he acts like his friend. So
Speaker 1: it's like a tale of gaslighting and somebody like trying
Speaker 1: to take you down, but acting like your friend.
Speaker 4: It's like so good, it looks so cool.
Speaker 1: Wow, he has like the most he has so many lines,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's like he's the star of the
Speaker 1: fucking show. It's nuts, and he does an amazing job.
Speaker 1: There's monologues where he's screaming. He has to go from
Speaker 1: young salary to old dying salary and it's like a
Speaker 1: totally different posture and voice and everything, like he's a master,
Speaker 1: like he was so good, so you know, and I
Speaker 1: saw it the second to last day, like it closed
Speaker 1: the next day, so it was a full house. So
Speaker 1: we go, we go backstage. We're waiting. You've seen, You've
Speaker 1: been in the room. We're sitting on like these little
Speaker 1: couches kind of like waiting because it's this big green
Speaker 1: room where everyone has like a little dressing room off
Speaker 1: to the side. So we're just like waiting for him
Speaker 1: to come out, okay, And I'm seeing other members of
Speaker 1: the cast and I'm like, that was amazing, you were
Speaker 1: so good. Blah blah blah. There's opera in it, like
Speaker 1: some of the actresses and actors like sing opera. It
Speaker 1: was crazy. And then in the doorway comes this big
Speaker 1: guy and some of the cast members go, we saw
Speaker 1: you from the stage. Oh my god. And I look
Speaker 1: to the side and I go, I go, oh, that
Speaker 1: that looks like Christopher Maloney, and like, kind of from
Speaker 1: the side, are you kidding me? No?
Speaker 4: I go, kind of from the side, that guy looks
Speaker 4: like Christopher Maloney.
Speaker 1: And then Jefferson Mays comes out of his room and
Speaker 1: he's like in a rob he's just obviously taking all
Speaker 1: his makeup off, and he goes and he shakes the
Speaker 1: man's hand. I'm my Maloney lighter in my hand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He goes and shakes the man's hand, and in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm going, well, it's not Christopher Malone, because Jefferson Mays
Speaker 1: would know Christopher Maloney. Then he steps into the dress
Speaker 1: into the green room and it is Christopher Maloney, and
Speaker 1: my entire heart like sinks into my stomach.
Speaker 4: There's like fifteen people in the green room.
Speaker 2: You think Jefferson's like putting this together like in his
Speaker 2: head like this is no, no, not a.
Speaker 1: He's not so because he hasn't even seen us yet.
Speaker 1: He hasn't even seen me in Jared yet. He's like
Speaker 1: zipped out of his dressing room and gone and seen
Speaker 1: straight to obviously gone straight to Maloney. And so he is,
Speaker 1: but he buzzes around, he goes somewhere else because Maloney
Speaker 1: knows one of the actors in the play. Okay, So
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, oh my god. Jared is
Speaker 1: sitting there with me, and he goes, how can I
Speaker 1: support you? What if you want to do? And I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm like, I'm like paralyzed, like I don't know
Speaker 1: what to do. I'm usually like pretty cool around celebs,
Speaker 1: and I just was like, I don't even know like
Speaker 1: how I speak to him, because I know he kind
Speaker 1: of it, but he's in a good mood. He's like
Speaker 1: telling everybody how great they did whatever, and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1: So then he goes and he's deeper into the green
Speaker 1: room taking pictures with some of the cast members, and
Speaker 1: then Jefferson comes up to us, and I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. Hi. It's like, yeah, you know Kara from
Speaker 1: the podcast.
Speaker 4: And he goes, of course, thank you so much for
Speaker 4: coming back.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And I was like, you were so amazing,
Speaker 1: and I'm like talking about how how could he possibly like
Speaker 1: keep his voice every night a day after day he goes,
Speaker 1: it just comes back. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's because he screams monologues like it's crazy. But anyway,
Speaker 1: the whole time I'm like talking to Jefferson, I'm also
Speaker 1: like at the back of my mind, like I have
Speaker 1: one eye wandering like where's Christopher Maloney And so I go,
Speaker 1: I go, I can't believe Christopher Lone he's here, Jefferson
Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, you gotta get him, and I go,
Speaker 1: I go, I got, I know, I gotta go say hi,
Speaker 1: And he was like, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 4: So he and I chat for a little bit.
Speaker 2: He's so fun, he said, yeah, rod Nick's later right,
Speaker 2: like they never worked together.
Speaker 1: That's what I realized after. That's when I realized after
Speaker 1: the reason he was introducing himself is because Rudnick is
Speaker 1: seasoned like fourteen fifteen, right, so they never they never
Speaker 1: probably yeah, so, but in my mind I just wasn't
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't thinking seasons right at the no.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: The same thing came to me after I go. I
Speaker 1: said to Jared, I go, that's why they don't know
Speaker 1: each other different later seasons. And Jared goes, okay, like
Speaker 1: he has no idea what's going on. So I'm like, fuck, okay.
Speaker 1: So and Jefferson said, he goes, I had the best
Speaker 1: time with you ladies. He was like talking about how
Speaker 1: much he loved being on the podcast, and he was like,
Speaker 1: you guys indulging me with my little day drinking. And
Speaker 1: I was like, you were just having a glassy, little
Speaker 1: glass of white wine. It was no big deal. And
Speaker 1: so he was and March, that's so funny. It was
Speaker 1: a little martini glass, okay, And we'd we asked him,
Speaker 1: we were like, are is that a martini? He's like,
Speaker 1: it's a white wine. But he was so so sweet,
Speaker 1: and he said that there's talk of the show moving
Speaker 1: possibly to New York and if it goes there, you
Speaker 1: gotta go like so good. So then he has to
Speaker 1: go obviously, like he's got other people to see and
Speaker 1: shit to do. And I'm like, okay. So Maloney has
Speaker 1: gone to the stage with his friend, so I follow.
Speaker 1: I go up to the stage and he's gone, and
Speaker 1: I go. I go to the friend. I go, did
Speaker 1: Christopher Maloney leave?
Speaker 4: And he goes yeah.
Speaker 1: I go. I go, oh no, I go, I have
Speaker 1: the Number one is for You podcast. He goes, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you want me to text him? And I go,
Speaker 1: you guys are friends. He goes, yeah, he was here
Speaker 1: to see me. And I go, oh no, that's okay,
Speaker 1: Like you're not gonna text and go there's a girl
Speaker 1: with a podcast. Then come back like you know, like
Speaker 1: that's not happening. But it was like I couldn't like
Speaker 1: be rude to Jefferson and like down maloney and it
Speaker 1: was so quick. But I'll tell you he looked great.
Speaker 1: The butt was he was standing in front of me.
Speaker 1: I saw his butt before I saw his full face
Speaker 1: and was like, it's him, Like that's him and uh,
Speaker 1: really filling out those genes. And he was really nice
Speaker 1: and complimentary to the whole cast. And you know I
Speaker 1: heard him talk about where he lives in La. It's
Speaker 1: not impossible that I could run into him again.
Speaker 4: No, we will run into him again. He will do
Speaker 4: the pod, We will see him.
Speaker 2: Yes, you were in close proximity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who was he with somebody? At first I thought
Speaker 1: he was, but they were two other friends of the
Speaker 1: same actor, so he was alone. Got it wow?
Speaker 4: And he was off into the night.
Speaker 1: And then I, you know, I got out onto those
Speaker 1: streets after I left and was like scanning everywhere seeing
Speaker 1: if he was like getting into a black car.
Speaker 2: But I missed opportunity. He didn't miss it. That was
Speaker 2: what was supposed to happen. It's like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: He was like I could have touched him. He was
Speaker 1: so close. It was crazy, Like did he look but
Speaker 1: I felt that feeling? Yeah, he was. He looked really
Speaker 1: hot and I because he was like just very like
Speaker 1: cash and I just have not had that feeling of
Speaker 1: like oh my god, like what do I do? What
Speaker 1: do I say? How like what do I have to
Speaker 1: approach this like in a long time. So nice to
Speaker 1: know I still I can still feel you know. That
Speaker 1: was good.
Speaker 4: Now my heart is beating so fast right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I was like it was so crazy.
Speaker 1: I go wow in profile, that guy really looks like
Speaker 1: Christopher Maloney. And then I was like, but it's how
Speaker 1: big is the I guess I didn't anticipate me like
Speaker 1: seeing a big guy and going, oh my god, it's Maloney.
Speaker 4: Like it was the baldness too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he was just baldi and like I just
Speaker 1: saw him in the doorway, you know, like people were
Speaker 1: kind of in front and act the actresses were like.
Speaker 4: We saw you from the stage. I was like, this
Speaker 4: must be somebody.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is kind of like when people are
Speaker 2: like are you going to SNL like for Connor Store
Speaker 2: or whatever? I go no, because I don't want to
Speaker 2: behave Like sometimes it's like you can't be desperate, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, like your exact situations. Everyone wants
Speaker 2: a thing, and sometimes that feeling is just too much
Speaker 2: to handle and you have to stay grounded, and it's
Speaker 2: like you can't be a free and sometimes the freaks
Speaker 2: are rewarded.
Speaker 4: I'm sure, but like I don't know totally.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I mean, in my mind, I
Speaker 1: was like gonna be like, I'm so sorry to bother you.
Speaker 1: I just have to tell you because like I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he even knows about our podcast,
Speaker 1: but I.
Speaker 4: You know, I had I had a plan in my
Speaker 4: mind to win.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be one of those where when he finally
Speaker 2: does it, we'll be like, well, you've said no forever
Speaker 2: and he goes what I would never have said no,
Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah.
Speaker 1: He said no his people. Yeah, so yeah that's my
Speaker 1: story and what a night. But damn and yeah, and
Speaker 1: I like, yeah, I posted a story. I have a
Speaker 1: maybe I'll put it on Maine or something. I have
Speaker 1: a great I have a great pick of me, just
Speaker 1: me and rod Nick alone. Jared's not the best photographer,
Speaker 1: but you know we got a cute little pick. Wow. Okay,
Speaker 1: I do have to I do have a confession to
Speaker 1: make to you guys. And I I know, I like
Speaker 1: I actually ended up not really doing Saint Patrick's Day yesterday.
Speaker 1: So I apologize for moving the four, okay, I cause
Speaker 1: I saw on your stories that you had an early
Speaker 1: one and that's really fun.
Speaker 2: I did because Julia was leaving town and I made
Speaker 2: her feel so guilty and bad that she would leave me.
Speaker 2: And she was also like, these are like we don't
Speaker 2: really even do this holiday, Like why are you acting
Speaker 2: like this?
Speaker 1: And then I had receipts.
Speaker 2: I go, oh, like when Lane Maine corn beef and
Speaker 2: you did, I go, how dare you say we don't
Speaker 2: do this holiday?
Speaker 4: So she felt so bad that she went to soul
Speaker 4: cycle with me.
Speaker 2: We went to cornerbe stre It was like also a
Speaker 2: gorgeous day in New York City. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 2: in the sixties but or maybe fifties. But we sat
Speaker 2: outside and then we went to ear in our favorite
Speaker 2: Irish place. And then I had yeah, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this is the New York Friday. Seven o'clock drinks at
Speaker 2: a steakhouse, eight o'clock Korean barbecue, ten o'clock karaoke, twelve
Speaker 2: forty five a spot, two am, a spot like I
Speaker 2: was performing fully black Down. Oh yeah, I got a
Speaker 2: text from the friend group I left from karaoke being
Speaker 2: at one forty five, going where are you at?
Speaker 4: And I said, I'm still waiting to go up.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So I like party and you know, and this is
Speaker 2: the thing, like I'm at soul Cycle with high schoolers
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I am thirty eight.
Speaker 4: I started drinking at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2: I missed, I mixed four liquors and I'm fucking here
Speaker 2: spinning bitch. I was just like, I felt really good
Speaker 2: about myself.
Speaker 1: But then Julie and.
Speaker 2: I went straight to Saint Patti's, so I was like
Speaker 2: drunk and then I'd arrest before my next one am spot.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Oh my god.
Speaker 2: No, But I kept wanting to party and everyone was like, well,
Speaker 2: I have a job, Like what do you mean? Like nothing,
Speaker 2: like nothing was clicking, and I was like, am I
Speaker 2: just gonna get blacked out alone in the neighborhood. And
Speaker 2: then I went to get a coffee at ten am
Speaker 2: and I go, you know, I thought I was going
Speaker 2: to party today and the girl goes, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: still pretty early.
Speaker 1: Yeah, things could turn around, girl made by lunch. But
Speaker 1: this is what I did. So basically, I have I
Speaker 1: do have a lot it's not gonna be the maloney.
Speaker 1: I do have a list.
Speaker 2: It all is kind of connected also, Casey, it's so funny.
Speaker 2: So my hairdresser, Lacey's been doing my hair in color
Speaker 2: and cut for like a decade. I would say over
Speaker 2: a decade, and she said the same thing you did.
Speaker 2: She goes, Lisa, I've never heard you say you read
Speaker 2: a book. And I'm really proud of you.
Speaker 1: Right now people are saying that, like the streets are
Speaker 1: saying that. But I finished the eighth one.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do, and then I actually,
Speaker 2: I hope you're a listener. I ran into a girl
Speaker 2: who came to my Grammarcy show at the park and
Speaker 2: she goes, you need to read this book, and I
Speaker 2: went and bought it. But it's love Letters to a
Speaker 2: serial Killer and it's really fun.
Speaker 1: I'm into it really. Yeah. I'm only like fifty pages in.
Speaker 1: But I was like scared that nothing but gay hockey
Speaker 1: would like get me to read.
Speaker 4: But I found Murder.
Speaker 5: Murder.
Speaker 1: Now it's a muscle. Now it's a muscle that it's working. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can do other stuff. Well now when I started
Speaker 1: in people have been dming stuff that you should also
Speaker 1: read yeah, like about gay FBI agents. Once somebody said
Speaker 1: some and I got a forwarded.
Speaker 2: I need it because I bought a straight book and
Speaker 2: it just wasn't doing it. I like, couldn't read this
Speaker 2: straight romance, but this one has a murder element and
Speaker 2: she's like writing to this murderer and I do enjoy it,
Speaker 2: but I needed this.
Speaker 1: I need gay fbis you need to say that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll forward it to you. I definitely need.
Speaker 2: But whatever, So okay, there's so many So anyways, I've
Speaker 2: just been like out and about and it's mostly heated
Speaker 2: rivalry related. But Connor Story's v Man magazine. I don't
Speaker 2: know what that is, but it came out. It was
Speaker 2: supposed to come out the sixteenth to Barnes and Noble.
Speaker 2: So I'm on it. I'm showing it. They go, we
Speaker 2: don't have it. We don't know when magazines come. It's
Speaker 2: per the distributor. Like they were stressed. You could tell
Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble was stressed. So I start calling magazine shops.
Speaker 2: I'm calling all the places in New York like trying
Speaker 2: to get this magazine. So then one guy finally he's like,
Speaker 2: come tomorrow morning, just please come tomorrow morning. So that
Speaker 2: so that's Saint Patrick's stay. So I'm up at like
Speaker 2: eight third, I'm like, let's go.
Speaker 1: So so you are partying, you're tracking out a magazine,
Speaker 1: so you are partying a little bit, so you're on
Speaker 1: the fucking case Like this is so good.
Speaker 2: I get to the story immediately, like I'll take three,
Speaker 2: and he's and then I give him money and he
Speaker 2: goes wanting to do five. I go, I don't need
Speaker 2: He goes, you could sell it. I go, that's not
Speaker 2: my spirit. And then I go and then I go like,
Speaker 2: how's it been or what's going on? And he goes,
Speaker 2: you people are driving me crazy.
Speaker 4: Like they're bringing back print meet that's a slur.
Speaker 1: You're only talking about women.
Speaker 4: You're basically mostly talking about women.
Speaker 2: And then I go, I'll take a fourth one. I go, okay,
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna give one my niece whatever, Like I just, I.
Speaker 1: Just I'm surprised they didn't put a limit on it,
Speaker 1: like the Princess Diana Beanie baby out where I worked,
Speaker 1: we were only allowed to buy one.
Speaker 2: No, he wanted me to buy more. He was, and
Speaker 2: then he gave me. He's like, well, let's fold it.
Speaker 2: I go excuse me. He goes, that's okay, right. I go,
Speaker 2: absolutely not, and you said there's two why are you
Speaker 2: doing that? And then he's like and started opening a
Speaker 2: new box. He was like pissed, but I got the magazines.
Speaker 2: But then so I went to go get another book
Speaker 2: and I'm in like Matao's neighborhood.
Speaker 1: This is like and in my and my guy.
Speaker 2: I go, oh, I should see if he wants to
Speaker 2: do breakfast and I was like, oh, whatever, it's Saint
Speaker 2: Patrick's there. I think I have to do something else.
Speaker 2: So then I go to the bookstore. I got recognized
Speaker 2: at the bookstore. The one of those guys who works
Speaker 2: there goes, I hear you on Sydney and Marie's podcast.
Speaker 2: I love their podcast, and I heard Mateo call you
Speaker 2: and he mentions Mateo. One minute later, Mateo calls me
Speaker 2: like can you believe that?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: And he goes, hey, we're filming something and a bunch
Speaker 2: of people are late.
Speaker 4: Can you like rush over and do something real quick?
Speaker 2: And I went okay, So like that felt kind of
Speaker 2: serendipitous and psychotic, yeah, like to like Mateo, And then
Speaker 2: it happened, so like that was really really fun but
Speaker 2: so we just did a thing. But I got my
Speaker 2: magazines and I just loved the way the guy. Oh
Speaker 2: but then for Saint Patrick. Then my road agent, no
Speaker 2: big deal. Ryan was like, Hey, my mom's flight got fucked.
Speaker 2: I have Broadway tickets. Do you want to come see
Speaker 2: a show? And I went, I guess this is all
Speaker 2: meant to be honest. Say so, I saw a show
Speaker 2: called Strangers Carrying a Cake in New York.
Speaker 1: Oh cool. I never heard of it across to New York.
Speaker 1: Across I had to look at the magnet I bought,
Speaker 1: but I happened. Of course you bought merch. Was it good?
Speaker 2: It was lovely? It was like sweet romantic. I love
Speaker 2: the set. They're very, very talented.
Speaker 1: I don't think those songs are like hits or whatever,
Speaker 1: but they're it's good.
Speaker 4: I laughed. I was into it.
Speaker 2: And I think people are into like romance vibes, so
Speaker 2: like people who are like oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Kind of fun.
Speaker 2: And I had a great time and just like any
Speaker 2: you know, it's like it just feel it's like a
Speaker 2: just feels cool to be in New York and be
Speaker 2: able to go to a Broadway show last minute, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And I was next to two
Speaker 2: teen girls and there was a Harry Potter joke and
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 4: They laugh then they got that one.
Speaker 2: No, but okay, So before I bought my eighth gay
Speaker 2: hockey book and it finished it I So I go
Speaker 2: to Barnes and Noble and I'm in line with it
Speaker 2: and a man budges me. But you know, like like Sephora,
Speaker 2: like there's items on the side, so you're just you're looking.
Speaker 1: But a man cuts me in line. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: I love that. I never heard I only hear you
Speaker 1: say that budging. Budging, Yeah, like someone budges you. It's like,
Speaker 1: is that you say that to case? Yeah? Like I
Speaker 1: never heard that before? Really, and except you said I
Speaker 1: know you said it before. It's so cute. Cut is
Speaker 1: like you're cutting me. Budge is like I just nudged
Speaker 1: in front of you. But it's not nice. No, it's
Speaker 1: like an old guy and I'm not in a hurry.
Speaker 1: So I was like what hu.
Speaker 2: Then a second man cuts me in line, so then
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, what's like? Am I invisible? So I go, okay, sir,
Speaker 2: like what's going on here? I'm in line? Why is
Speaker 2: ever going in front of me. It's Neil Patrick Harris.
Speaker 1: He turns around, Wait what at Barnes and nobody? And
Speaker 1: aren't you friends with him? From your go ahead?
Speaker 2: So I go, oh hey, I go I met you
Speaker 2: backstage at your at your play and he goes, okay,
Speaker 2: I just I thought you were looking at the items.
Speaker 2: I go, I know, it was just like you were
Speaker 2: the second person to budge me.
Speaker 4: It just was kind of crazy, and he went okay,
Speaker 4: and then that was it.
Speaker 1: Ah. But then it was like so New York because
Speaker 1: then I left and then I ran into John Early
Speaker 1: at the farmers market. It really it's really been like
Speaker 1: I guess a who's who of adventure when you leave
Speaker 1: the house, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: I got nineteen thousand steps I think two days ago.
Speaker 1: Geez, just trying to get a comfort rise the amount
Speaker 1: of the hard to get ten Wait.
Speaker 4: No, I do have to say it is a heated rivalrything.
Speaker 2: But remember when I was first raving about it, I
Speaker 2: mentioned how I love his progression of English and how
Speaker 2: like it's because they shot it out of order. So
Speaker 2: I was like the fact that his English gets better
Speaker 2: and how he knows words is like so incredible, and
Speaker 2: so I saw an interview with the script supervisor, and
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't realize. I knew it was about
Speaker 2: continuity and script stuff, and I remember the script supervisor
Speaker 2: and survival being like, you need a jacket.
Speaker 4: You're coming from outside. But I didn't put it together.
Speaker 2: But it's her that would be like because in the
Speaker 2: book when he gives Shane his room number, he goes
Speaker 2: twelve twenty one, and I noticed in the show he
Speaker 2: goes one two two one, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: wonder what that was. And it was the fucking script supervisor.
Speaker 2: She's like, your English is too good. She's like, it's
Speaker 2: too early.
Speaker 4: I'd say twelve twenty one, you would say one two
Speaker 4: two one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was just like, holy shit. It was
Speaker 2: someone's fucking job and they did a good job at it,
Speaker 2: and I did notice it, and it was just cool
Speaker 2: that I caught that interview and the.
Speaker 1: Idea I was that new thing. So script supervisors are
Speaker 1: like the people that are like me on this podcast
Speaker 1: looking for the holes like you.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, would I be good at that job?
Speaker 1: Like you have to be like, wait a minute, that
Speaker 1: doesn't really make sense because you're coming from a totally
Speaker 1: different place.
Speaker 2: Like, no, I had the wrong impression. I was like,
Speaker 2: they're the nerds who want me to be script perfect
Speaker 2: and I don't want to. Like in my head, I'm like,
Speaker 2: get away from me and I'm gonna say whatever I want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting that they have to have like
Speaker 1: the whole does it makes you think it's.
Speaker 4: Just really cool that the like the that good.
Speaker 2: I mean, also, we didn't even mention the fucking oscars
Speaker 2: were already at a half hour.
Speaker 4: This is a nightmare. And I'm like, I just with
Speaker 4: Ryan Coogler.
Speaker 2: It's like with him, it's like the team, it's the
Speaker 2: people together, it's everyone working so hard, it's everything, and
Speaker 2: then his and then everyone talking about him in such
Speaker 2: a beautiful way. And I'm just like James Cameron, you
Speaker 2: suck right, like no one thinks you're nice, and it's
Speaker 2: like you can make great things and also be beloved
Speaker 2: and nurture other people's talent.
Speaker 4: And I just love him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ryan Coogler is the mushco Hargate I would say
Speaker 1: of the movie world. And like I would, I would
Speaker 1: be devastated if like someone comes out and is like
Speaker 1: he doesn't he is mean to me. At the laundromat,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like I'm gonna be He's just
Speaker 1: so like he gives me hope. And I'm gonna watch
Speaker 1: Sinners because now it's too much. Now I gotta watch it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch and that weapons one that's like a
Speaker 1: big whorry, that's like fucking cool. I love I mean,
Speaker 1: I love A. I love A like a later in
Speaker 1: life Hollywood, like she's been working for so long, give
Speaker 1: her some flower, Like I love that with Amy Madigan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's great.
Speaker 2: I like he's doing that the lights well, Leo looked
Speaker 2: hot because I watched that Libies and like at the
Speaker 2: same time, we looked at each other and we're like whoa.
Speaker 2: And Allison's like, it's he still does it for me.
Speaker 2: And then I was with other people and everyone was
Speaker 2: just like like he did something or he's getting ready
Speaker 2: for something because he looks fucking good.
Speaker 1: He looked your You know what I've said on this podcast,
Speaker 1: Leo doesn't do it for me.
Speaker 4: I've said on this podcast.
Speaker 1: When they shot came to him during the rose Burn
Speaker 1: thing when she was taught, when he was like no,
Speaker 1: I was like, why does he look hot? Like he
Speaker 1: did look good. He's like deep puffed or something.
Speaker 2: Well, the rumor is because he's gonna shoot a Scorsese
Speaker 2: movie with Jennifer Lawrence and she's so hot.
Speaker 4: Somebody told me that Scorsese retired.
Speaker 2: Casey also also Scorsese Pta, and who's the other one.
Speaker 2: They all won their Best Movie Oscars with fucking Leo.
Speaker 1: Leo gets the people Oscars. He's their muse. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, and James Cameron for Titanic, like he fucking gets
Speaker 2: yeah Oscars.
Speaker 1: He's so good.
Speaker 4: Y No Connor and Hudson looks so good.
Speaker 2: And I bought new sheets and I bought brown sheets
Speaker 2: because he was wearing brown. I was like, maybe I'll
Speaker 2: just do brown sheet.
Speaker 1: Noah. They looked like complimentary and they're like sheer those
Speaker 1: like sheer numbers that they were. I had some friends
Speaker 1: that went to those parties and it's just so funny
Speaker 1: because everyone's like it's really just a lot of celebrities
Speaker 1: waiting around in lines like it's people, and like everybody
Speaker 1: gets to these parties afterwards and they my friend sent
Speaker 1: me what they had underneath the seats, and it's like
Speaker 1: a Bauga's bag of skinny pop and a water bottle,
Speaker 1: Like these people are starving, Like they get to these
Speaker 1: parties after then they get.
Speaker 2: To go to the chateau for like Beyonce or like
Speaker 2: Madonna's parties. Yeah, they have like a good time. Yeah
Speaker 2: oh yeah the guy oh Siri party. Oh I have
Speaker 2: one more thing I'd like to plug. I went to
Speaker 2: a party at club Coming for Underdogs. It's an Audible show.
Speaker 2: Drew Anderson and Marshabell Ski. Yes, they've been working five years,
Speaker 2: Like I remember the day they both told me they
Speaker 2: got this deal that they're starting to write it. Alan
Speaker 2: Cummings in it BB New Earth, but young young actors
Speaker 2: like early twenty maybe teens.
Speaker 4: That's sang and they were one of them. Brought me
Speaker 4: to tears.
Speaker 2: I was fully crying at the end, like it was
Speaker 2: so good and it's about like the kids in a
Speaker 2: school who don't make the play and then they make
Speaker 2: their own like play and it's called Underdog.
Speaker 1: I love that way. When does it? Is it out
Speaker 1: already out?
Speaker 2: It's out on Audible And it was like and the
Speaker 2: live show was so fun. And then Natalie Walker, who's
Speaker 2: an incredible singer, she's y and.
Speaker 1: She always she's funny. You should keep.
Speaker 4: Following her, Why have I heard from her?
Speaker 1: Maybe she still do it, but to honor like high
Speaker 1: school vibes, she was like, you know, I played Fontine
Speaker 1: and ley Miz, but I was such a theater girl
Speaker 1: that I, you know, I need to know how she died.
Speaker 1: And since it was syphilis, I while I sang the
Speaker 1: last song, I started going blind. And so she's saying
Speaker 1: as her high school self, like going blind from syphilis
Speaker 1: as she saying, And it was like, I mean, it
Speaker 1: was like the best and I don't know, yeah, so
Speaker 1: if you guys want to do that. It was an
Speaker 1: incredible show. And then Julia listened to it all already
Speaker 1: and said it was so fucking good.
Speaker 4: So I'm obsessed.
Speaker 1: Those don't. I haven't listened to it, but I can
Speaker 1: attest that Drew Anderson and Marshabelski are two of the
Speaker 1: funniest people, so talented, so and see, yeah, go listen.
Speaker 2: And they love musical theater. It's basically, if you love
Speaker 2: musical theater like you will love this.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I feel like a lot of our
Speaker 1: listeners will be into this.
Speaker 2: All right, this was long. I mean, this was really
Speaker 2: a lot of name drops too. If that's something you
Speaker 2: I know love about what we did.
Speaker 1: It's aust for week and I went to randomly see
Speaker 1: this play. How could I ever have known I was
Speaker 1: going to cross paths with that ass? Wait?
Speaker 2: But what else about the I can't believe. Well, it's
Speaker 2: funny because I've made a friend host. And then I
Speaker 2: came late and then I had to leave early for
Speaker 2: a spot. And then everyone goes, we wouldn't have watched it.
Speaker 2: You forced this upon us. Why are you doing this?
Speaker 2: And I went, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched it at another comedian's house and we
Speaker 1: just I love filling out the ballots because I'm actually
Speaker 1: pretty good at the ballots, even in like sound editing
Speaker 1: and crap like that.
Speaker 4: I'm just like kind of good at guests. What's going
Speaker 4: to well?
Speaker 2: I'm also casting was really exciting, and I'm so glad
Speaker 2: that she got to like rib Pta too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like crazy, but I had to leave before
Speaker 1: the big I had to leave before all the big announces, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: because it's like it was like seven o'clock and I
Speaker 1: had to get my kids to bed. But like, I
Speaker 1: was really happy for all the people. I guess there
Speaker 1: were that many disappointments best supporting. I was like, not
Speaker 1: that down with Sean Penwin.
Speaker 2: Guess what, He's in fucking Ukraine with Zelensky and gave
Speaker 2: him the oscar Like he's like, oh okay, I know
Speaker 2: we all hate him and he's like in fucking Ukraine.
Speaker 2: I was talking about him and then someone goes, I
Speaker 2: think he's in Ukraine doing humanitarian aid and I went, well, okay,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: He'll still be okay, two things can be true.
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say, did you see Wendy what's
Speaker 2: her name not McLevin, what's her name, Wendy mcleey.
Speaker 1: Plending Covey. Did you see why she didn't make it
Speaker 1: to the oscars? Yeah? She goes, I gotta I got
Speaker 1: a neck lift and I'm sick of looking like a
Speaker 1: melting candle.
Speaker 4: So that's where I am. There's no bad blood.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's incredible, but that's what everyone was thinking,
Speaker 2: like where the fuck's are, bitch?
Speaker 1: Like where the bucks are?
Speaker 5: Girl?
Speaker 4: But that was really fun, love her, love her. Before
Speaker 4: we get started.
Speaker 1: I just also want to mention that Exactly Rights web
Speaker 1: store is having a spring cleaning sale that starts this Thursday,
Speaker 1: March twenty sixth. You can use the code EERM Spring
Speaker 1: twenty six for twenty percent off site wide. There's some exclusions,
Speaker 1: I guess, but there's a last chance section, so you know,
Speaker 1: just you can go get our Lois Louise Lewis t
Speaker 1: shirt that I love so much, and we have some
Speaker 1: other random leftover merch up there, so you can go
Speaker 1: grab that stuff at exactly rightstore dot com or you know,
Speaker 1: the link is in our bio and at That's messed
Speaker 1: Up Live dot com, where you can also find Lisa's
Speaker 1: tour schedule and all of our other pertinent links.
Speaker 4: All right, let's get started.
Speaker 1: We've got, I mean nothing short of a fantastic episode today.
Speaker 2: All right, Tommy's we're doing Reasonable Doubt season fifteen, episode
Speaker 2: twenty two, May seventh, twenty fourteen, aka the Bradley Whitford episode.
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled. And we've talked to Samantha Mathis, who's in this.
Speaker 2: We talked to her about it with a different episode.
Speaker 2: She's a hero for you, I remember, I love her. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And so we start off and it's an old timey musical.
Speaker 2: I think it's an eight track or something, and it
Speaker 2: says New York Hustle seventies font green and orange, you
Speaker 2: know that perfect seventies color. And are they they they
Speaker 2: sprung for Earthwind and Fire Bookie Wonderland.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is Booky Wonderland. Yep. So that's pretty huge.
Speaker 2: Full disco, everyone's dancing colorfull floor short shorts. We follow
Speaker 2: a blonde, curly haired woman and a pimp and they
Speaker 2: walk over to a drug dealer and then she truly
Speaker 2: gets on her knees in the middle of the club
Speaker 2: and is about to start blowing this man. And then
Speaker 2: she sees a badge and screams he's a cop, he's
Speaker 2: a pig, and starts running huge gun situation. Everything's crazy,
Speaker 2: and then obviously cut cut cut. We're we're acting, and
Speaker 2: the actor in the leather is pissed about the cut,
Speaker 2: and then Bradley Whitford runs out. He's the director, he's
Speaker 2: named Frank, and he's pissed too. He's like, how darey
Speaker 2: you fucking not call me for first team rehearsal And
Speaker 2: then someone's like, dude, we were behind. But he would
Speaker 2: never do a rehearsal without a director, like that would
Speaker 2: be psychoed, Like, yeah, it wouldn't even happen without him,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like it just wouldn't even happen,
Speaker 2: So I like, I'm not on Frank's side, but I
Speaker 2: get Frank being like what are you guys doing, but
Speaker 2: not yelling like that. Then he then he gives off
Speaker 2: very much manager of a restaurant who's never there, but
Speaker 2: then shows up to yell at people about things that
Speaker 2: don't actually matter. So he basically goes, well, now you're
Speaker 2: gonna be further behind because this is all wrong. Rose
Speaker 2: is a whore? What is this pink and then rubs
Speaker 2: the actress's lips, stick off her mouth too in a
Speaker 2: sent and then calls it different actor a moron, says,
Speaker 2: can you pretend you're straight for once and take her
Speaker 2: like a man, And then he grabs the actress and
Speaker 2: takes her and starts making out with her and then says,
Speaker 2: you were so hot last night. We're surrounded by idiots.
Speaker 2: He screams, you gotta make her want it.
Speaker 1: I need it raw more, smoke more smoke, suck and blow,
Speaker 1: suck and blow. You know what sucks? The costumes fucking suck.
Speaker 1: They're not the red shorts I picked, and they're like
Speaker 1: you said, bright red. He goes I said, Crimson, And
Speaker 1: then he runs out and he yells about the car.
Speaker 2: The car's too shiny. Then he threatens to kill off
Speaker 2: someone's character. And then a woman in a ballet flat
Speaker 2: and tight ass genes, you know what year it is,
Speaker 2: and she goes, I don't think we can kill him,
Speaker 2: and he goes, it's cable, who gives a shit? And
Speaker 2: the threat and then threatens you know, more death scene. Oh,
Speaker 2: he goes, you know what about I write a death
Speaker 2: scene where you're also questioning your sexuality, so you like,
Speaker 2: you're gonna question your sexuality, have gay.
Speaker 1: Sex and then die. So that's the worst death ever
Speaker 1: for an actor, not just to die, but.
Speaker 4: To die maybe gay like. So then donal donal logue,
Speaker 4: donal logue, you know what's crazy?
Speaker 2: So I was like talk, I was like thinking about
Speaker 2: him while I was writing this, and I was like, God,
Speaker 2: what a dream guest. I hope we can get him.
Speaker 2: Why hasn't he done the pod? And then I remembered
Speaker 2: he did the pod. He did the pod, He's done
Speaker 2: the pot.
Speaker 1: We've truly like and then I remember I was talking
Speaker 1: and stuff, but I forgot like we've just had so
Speaker 1: many guests and I was like, I can't believe we
Speaker 1: did talk to Donald lug Well, you know Rollin's baby
Speaker 1: daddy undercover Hattie.
Speaker 2: Truly, I wrote in the notes, I wrote, truly one
Speaker 2: of my dream guests. Wait, I just realized and remember
Speaker 2: we talked to him. Oh my god. Benson's there and
Speaker 2: the view of the city so pretty, and they want
Speaker 2: to talk to Frank and he's like lol, and they're like,
Speaker 2: it's about your daughter, and he softens and he goes,
Speaker 2: it's Chelsea okay, and Benson goes, well, that's what we're
Speaker 2: trying to figure out. And he immediately goes, oh, what
Speaker 2: is this about my ex Catherine? And it's like, why
Speaker 2: don't you focus on your daughter? The NYPD is there
Speaker 2: because of your daughter and your thing is immediately like
Speaker 2: I'm being set up? What did Catherine do? And it's like,
Speaker 2: why are you jumping to that verse? How is my daughter?
Speaker 1: Yeah? To me, it's like, you're guilty.
Speaker 2: Whatever this is, whatever happens, I know you're fucking guilty.
Speaker 2: Because that's a crazy response. Donald goes, yes, let's talk
Speaker 2: in private. He goes, what's she accusing me of now?
Speaker 2: And it's like, what if she got into a car?
Speaker 1: Accident.
Speaker 2: What if she fell in the playground, Like, why are
Speaker 2: you assuming it's an Like I don't understand. But and
Speaker 2: then like Donald is wearing sunglasses, Murphy, but you could
Speaker 2: tell he's looking at this guy like your fucking scum U.
Speaker 2: But he goes, it wasn't Catherine. It was Chelsea's pediatrician.
Speaker 2: And he thinks that she she may be a victim
Speaker 2: of sexual abuse. And again it's about him, not Oh
Speaker 2: my god, what happened to her?
Speaker 1: Is my daughter?
Speaker 4: Okay, it's straight.
Speaker 2: So Catherine said it's me And then he scoffs and goes,
Speaker 2: you're wasting your time. I'm in a custody battle and
Speaker 2: my wife's out of her fucking mind, and you can
Speaker 2: talk to my lawyer. And it's like you still have
Speaker 2: not asked who, Like what if it was someone else
Speaker 2: abusing her?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Why are you asking what the pediatrician found?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it's accurately portraying what
Speaker 1: a mess this is. That like everybody's just paranoid and
Speaker 1: going at each other and nobody is actually thinking about
Speaker 1: the best interest of the child at all. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now it cuts to a video of a
Speaker 2: young redheaded girl and she's on tape answering questions. So
Speaker 2: Barbara Amaro and Rollins are watching at the DA's office.
Speaker 2: Do you think the DA and cops watch these offices
Speaker 2: and go, wow, we wish our office look that nice?
Speaker 4: Like do you think they're pissed? And how nice like
Speaker 4: teen seasons are?
Speaker 2: Because I feel season one they try to be rugged
Speaker 2: cops and then like, yeah, definitely really had. It's very
Speaker 2: modern now because when I went to one PP it
Speaker 2: felt like shit.
Speaker 4: It looked like looked like shit.
Speaker 2: So basically, this little redhead of cutie, she's like, you know,
Speaker 2: he said that I spilled ice cream on my dress,
Speaker 2: but he spilled the ice cream and we went to
Speaker 2: the laundry room and he took off my clothes and
Speaker 2: then because he had to clean them, but then he
Speaker 2: sat her on the washing machine and said it was
Speaker 2: fun the way it moved, and he held her. And
Speaker 2: she's a and the prompter of the questions is her mom,
Speaker 2: Catherine Summers, who's an actress, divorcing this husband. And the
Speaker 2: reason they're getting a divorce is because Frank left her
Speaker 2: for her younger sister, Rose, who is a teenager. So
Speaker 2: and the whole episode They're like, Catherine, stop being so upset,
Speaker 2: like you dumb bitch, just get over it.
Speaker 1: Like no one says seems secure that he's dating an
Speaker 1: eighteen or nineteen year old at this point that like
Speaker 1: he like, everyone's just like Catherine's such a pill.
Speaker 2: Why won't she get over it? And no one's like
Speaker 2: why did you? Like, why'd you take the team? Why
Speaker 2: did you? Everyone's like she's jealous. She's jealous.
Speaker 1: This is like, so are I'm going to get into
Speaker 1: it later with the real crime, you know, yeah you will. Okay,
Speaker 1: So basically, you know he dated where he left for
Speaker 1: the teen sister, and now the teen sister is the arc.
Speaker 1: So like that blonde, curly haired woman that you saw
Speaker 1: him kiss on set is a teenager. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's that.
Speaker 2: Now Catherine made the video and there are multiple time jumps,
Speaker 2: so that's of course suspicious to like Tomorrow and Rollins
Speaker 2: because they want to defend him. And then Barbara's like, great,
Speaker 2: a high profile mess with a bunch of ego and
Speaker 2: like a divorce, Get ready for the media. Circus. Okay, circus,
Speaker 2: come into town. Credit he's in woodroom Blinds and Jeffrey
Speaker 2: tambour is his lawyer, who.
Speaker 4: I think miss Cobra harassment.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's had a harassment, he's had an he's been canceled,
Speaker 1: I would say, due to harassment, bad behavior on sets,
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But he is in this episode and he is the lawyer,
Speaker 2: and Frank is like, yeah, I'm an asshole, but I'm
Speaker 2: not a pedophile. This is all Catherine. And then Murphy's like,
Speaker 2: well you did fuck her little sister. And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: we're in love. And the lawyer starts talking about punishing
Speaker 2: the pediatrician for a false report, and it's like, what, No,
Speaker 2: we need doctors reporting, like you cannot sue the doctor
Speaker 2: for like I would rather doctors go above and beyond
Speaker 2: and be wrong about abuse instead of letting it fucking
Speaker 2: go right. And Benson's like, okay, we just need your
Speaker 2: side about how we you know, that's how we're going
Speaker 2: to start. So you were in Chelsea, were together at
Speaker 2: your ex wife's apartment and he goes, yeah, I'm her father,
Speaker 2: and the Tibetan nanny was and it's like such an
Speaker 2: old person thing that, like why wouldn't you just say nanny? Yeah,
Speaker 2: so weird. It's like cool, but I don't get it.
Speaker 2: So her son Danny was there. Benson says, Chelsea said,
Speaker 2: you played perverted games and he says, nope, Catherine told
Speaker 2: her to say that. Catherine's borderline. She has cats, bunnies,
Speaker 2: sixteen straight dogs. She's nuts. And Murphy's like, okay, so
Speaker 2: yes or no? Did you assault your daughter? And he says,
Speaker 2: if I wanted to assault my daughter, why wouldn't I
Speaker 2: wait to get custody and then have her to myself?
Speaker 2: And it's like, you're a pedophile to even think that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and don't they do that, Like if someone says, like you,
Speaker 2: you're a pedophile, you would go that's disgusting.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not. This is fucked. You don't go.
Speaker 4: I mean, if I was a pedophile, don't you think
Speaker 4: I would.
Speaker 1: Have done it like this? Wouldn't I have been smarter? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I didn't do it, but if I did? The OJ book, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so strange to me. All these answers, and he
Speaker 1: does it a few times throughout this episode, and the
Speaker 1: lawyer says that's a no. Benson's like, so what happened?
Speaker 1: He goes, we were playing chess and they're like in
Speaker 1: the laundry room. He goes, I don't go in the
Speaker 1: laundry room. No, no, no, there's spiders in there. Everyone
Speaker 1: knows I'm scared of spiders. And it's like, okay.
Speaker 2: The detectives go to meet Barbara, Amaro and Murphy are
Speaker 2: like playing like dick competition games and like peacocking for Rollins,
Speaker 2: and everyone's like wanting to fuck Rollins, but they say, like,
Speaker 2: the dude didn't deny anything, really, and he used distancing language,
Speaker 2: and he never said Chelsea's name or looked at her
Speaker 2: photo and had an answer for everything and again did
Speaker 2: not deny it. And Benson's like, go to the apartment,
Speaker 2: talk to the nanny, make sure she's from Tibet, and
Speaker 2: then talk to the ex wife, the daughter, the son.
Speaker 2: There's a son, Like, let's go, so we need a
Speaker 2: warrant for the laundry room. Though everyone scadatles, Rollins stays
Speaker 2: to talk to Murphy and she, of course is like
Speaker 2: there to defend a man, and she goes, Frank does
Speaker 2: hate spiders.
Speaker 1: It's like, why the fuck do you you know that?
Speaker 2: So now we're at a big white house and Samantha
Speaker 2: Mathis is holding a gorgeous husky puppy, holy shit, and
Speaker 2: she explains that Frank is obsessed with Chelsea, which I
Speaker 2: guess for her father is okay, but for a pedophile
Speaker 2: not okay. So Amaro pet's the dog. And then they
Speaker 2: need Chelsea to talk, but that's why she made the tape.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, to pursue the case, and she
Speaker 2: stops them, like I don't want to pursue it, and
Speaker 2: they're confused, but like the state can do it without
Speaker 2: her as well, and we can also like tell child
Speaker 2: services what's up. And she screams, I'm a good mother
Speaker 2: and I love my daughter, and Benson's like, right, exactly,
Speaker 2: So let me talk to Chelsea. We all need to
Speaker 2: keep her safe, and she does agree. So they're at
Speaker 2: a long dining room table. She does keep looking at
Speaker 2: her mom before she talks, but also this is like
Speaker 2: huge and scary, so maybe she wants to be with
Speaker 2: her mom.
Speaker 4: She's an incredible actress.
Speaker 2: She looks so sad, but she says her and her
Speaker 2: father play pretend cops and bad girls, Okay, disgusting. Every
Speaker 2: time she talks, she looks off to her mom, and
Speaker 2: she says that her dad said, if I can memorize
Speaker 2: a story and lines I can be in one of
Speaker 2: his shows. Amorrow's like, you know the difference between truth
Speaker 2: and pretend? And they do this to every fucking child
Speaker 2: and she says mm hm, but not very convincing, and
Speaker 2: they want the mom out of the room. She doesn't
Speaker 2: want to leave, and Benson's like, we'll be good, get
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here. The mom rubs Chelsea's shoulders
Speaker 2: on the way out, and Tomorrow like walks her way,
Speaker 2: walks her away. If Amorrow told me to go anywhere,
Speaker 2: I'd go, like, I don't understand why she's arguing, like
Speaker 2: go with Amorrow. Benson's like, okay, we saw the video
Speaker 2: you and your mom made that was real or pretend?
Speaker 2: And she and that's like such a great way to ask.
Speaker 2: Benson is amazing, and she says it's real and she's like,
Speaker 2: did your mom ask you to remember lines? And she goes, no,
Speaker 2: she told me to say what really happened? And I
Speaker 2: trust this little girl. So Amorrow and Catherine are talking
Speaker 2: and then nanny led him into the house, not her,
Speaker 2: and she was at a matinee with her sister Mavis.
Speaker 2: And this is not Rose. She's not speaking of Rose.
Speaker 2: Obviously that's the one with Frank. This Mavis is a
Speaker 2: middle sister and she's visiting from Oregon. She's not famous
Speaker 2: at all, and he asked the question about Frank and
Speaker 2: Catherine Nail's back. Frank does what Frank wants. She explains
Speaker 2: that of course there's a set schedule, but he doesn't
Speaker 2: pay any attention to it. Tomorrow is so smooth and sexy.
Speaker 2: I would truly give him my Social Security and pin
Speaker 2: number in a heart beat.
Speaker 4: And I can't believe we talked to him. Great guest,
Speaker 4: great guest, good face.
Speaker 1: So she's true, he's got my pin number. I already
Speaker 1: gave it. I chatted out to him during the interview.
Speaker 1: I was like, just keep this just in case, wanting
Speaker 1: to have this. Okay, So how this all started?
Speaker 2: As Chelsea said her vagina hurt and Tomorrow is like,
Speaker 2: is that your words are hers? And she goes hers,
Speaker 2: I took her to the doctor. So then Finn is
Speaker 2: there and Finn is with the nanny and he goes, bitch,
Speaker 2: I know you smoke.
Speaker 4: Were you smoking? And she's like, fuck, yeah, that's my
Speaker 4: one vice.
Speaker 2: And mister Maddox understands and so he let me go smoke,
Speaker 2: and then nanny has no good answer, but saw them
Speaker 2: come out of the laundry room and Chelsea had her
Speaker 2: dress on but it was unbuttoned, and she went in
Speaker 2: there wearing tights, and then when she came out, she
Speaker 2: was wearing no tights. So he definitely let like sent
Speaker 2: her out to go smoke so he can assault his
Speaker 2: daughter in the laundry room. And she fucking saw the
Speaker 2: tights be gone, like we all saw this. So Rollins
Speaker 2: is with Daniel, the son, and they're playing with a
Speaker 2: basketball mini size, like a bedroom hoop. And he was
Speaker 2: at the country house, so he was not there for this.
Speaker 2: And Daniel likes soccer and his dad doesn't, and you know,
Speaker 2: he's like weird, and the basically the dad doesn't pay
Speaker 2: attention to the sun at all, and he thinks it's
Speaker 2: based on soccer, but it's basically based on being a pedophile.
Speaker 2: So Daniel said that his father says boys are dirty,
Speaker 2: and he likes girls and dressing them up and making
Speaker 2: them do what he says, and Rollin goes what And
Speaker 2: he goes, yeah, Chelsea, mom aunt Rose, so all of
Speaker 2: his little actresses. It's strange, right, And Rollins is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's his job. It's fine, right, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean he's that Chelsea can be in his show,
Speaker 2: but not him because boys don't play dress up, and
Speaker 2: Rollin's goes, how am I gonna spin this to protect
Speaker 2: the man?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: He's like she's sitting there being like, how am I
Speaker 2: gonna invalidate this child? And then the boy continues that
Speaker 2: his nanny feels bad for him, and then we're at
Speaker 2: the precinct, so Murphy's in the middle. He looks like
Speaker 2: a disheveled scientist and he's like, the mom thinks the
Speaker 2: dad is an abuser, and the dad thinks the mom
Speaker 2: is crazy.
Speaker 4: What did the girl say?
Speaker 2: And the girl said that her and the dad played
Speaker 2: a game and he took off her dress, touched her
Speaker 2: vaginally and told her it was a secret. Like what
Speaker 2: are we even fucking talking about? And Rollin's goes, well,
Speaker 2: is the mom credible? And Amaro goes she's got some issues,
Speaker 2: and Finn says, doesn't mean the girl wasn't abused, and
Speaker 2: Murphy says, either way, she's a pawn in the game
Speaker 2: between these two, and Rollin says yeah, and the stakes
Speaker 2: have just Risen. Someone just leaked nude photos of Rose.
Speaker 2: So Frank took all these photos of Rose when she
Speaker 2: was eighteen, and Benson says that she looks much younger
Speaker 2: than that, so it's like, are we arresting him for
Speaker 2: child abuse images? Amaro says this proves she is out
Speaker 2: to get him, and he thinks Catherine leaked them without
Speaker 2: a doubt in his mind. And so then Murphy goes, Okay,
Speaker 2: then there's no point in sending you to ask her, huh?
Speaker 2: And I really really love that. Finn and Rollins go
Speaker 2: and it's a media circus. The non famous sister opens
Speaker 2: the door, Chelsea and Catherine are there, but they send
Speaker 2: Chelsea off, and Catherine's like, I'm so sick about this,
Speaker 2: but I guess it was bound to fucking happen. I
Speaker 2: had a strict rule to never allow them alone together,
Speaker 2: and so I set up nanny cams and that's how
Speaker 2: she even saw the like about the Rose situation. And
Speaker 2: so Frank knew about the nanny cams and knew there
Speaker 2: wasn't one in the laundry room, so Frank knows about them.
Speaker 4: That's how she found out Rose.
Speaker 2: And she's trying to protect her daughter, Chelsea, and I
Speaker 2: believe Catherine. And Catherine points to the press and goes,
Speaker 2: look at all these fucking vultures, and she's like, Frank
Speaker 2: did this. He did this to humiliate me. And instead
Speaker 2: of TMZ, they call it LMZ LOL. But they only
Speaker 2: have print copies of the photos. They can't get a jpeg.
Speaker 2: So if they had a jpeg, they could see when
Speaker 2: it's created. And she's like, you think if I had
Speaker 2: a jpeg, like I wouldn't have used it in the divorce.
Speaker 2: He would be sleeping in his tesla, she says. So
Speaker 2: they go talk to Rose and she calls her sad
Speaker 2: and she should let go, and Benson's like, let go
Speaker 2: that her sister and husband are sleeping together, like without
Speaker 2: their teenager thing, that would still be grounds to not
Speaker 2: speak together, you know what I mean. And so they're
Speaker 2: on set and Frank told her that their love would
Speaker 2: cost her her relationship with her sister, and that's just
Speaker 2: what happens with older siblings. At first it's all about them,
Speaker 2: and then the younger sister throws them out of orbit.
Speaker 2: But she hopes that one day she can move on
Speaker 2: with time. So we're in cement room bars. I mean,
Speaker 2: she's going to turn thirty one day and realize that
Speaker 2: she was groomed and it's going to be really hard
Speaker 2: for her in therapy. But Frank thinks this is ridiculous,
Speaker 2: and when he brings up his fiance, Murphy interrupts him
Speaker 2: and goes, well, your fiance graduated high school last year,
Speaker 2: and Benson says that his hair was found in the
Speaker 2: laundry room of his ex wife's apartment. He goes, sure,
Speaker 2: I'm sure my hair's everywhere, all over my clothes, her
Speaker 2: clothes everywhere, and they go not that type of hair.
Speaker 1: So it's a pube.
Speaker 2: He goes, I'm sure Catherine planted it, like she's obsessed.
Speaker 2: And he goes, well, your fingerprints were all over the
Speaker 2: laundry machine too, Did she plant those? And he's like, fine,
Speaker 2: I admit it. You know I was there, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I thought you were scared of fucking spiders. So it
Speaker 2: cuts to rollin she's at home, she's with her dog,
Speaker 2: and it's like a really long shot of her just
Speaker 2: with the dog and I really like it and it's cute,
Speaker 2: and then she's watching Heraldo Rivera talk about the case
Speaker 2: and they're talking Frank, Catherine pedophile, YadA YadA, YadA, revenge,
Speaker 2: and then Amaro comes out in a fucking towel, abs
Speaker 2: arms back.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've been waiting for this episode. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: episode is that where he's in the towel. Yep, here
Speaker 1: we go. We really we so rarely get gifted in SVU,
Speaker 1: like a hot bod that's not murdered or in trouble
Speaker 1: or like being trapping. Yeah, so it's just so nice
Speaker 1: to see him in a towel and he goes, yep,
Speaker 1: Frank is firing back. Murphy was right, and he says
Speaker 1: she's manipulating the kids. Catherine and Chelsea show up to
Speaker 1: set and it's like, babe, can you leave your daughter
Speaker 1: at home? Like, leave her at home? Why are you
Speaker 1: bringing her here?
Speaker 2: She's gonna be so embarrassed, Like she's embarrassed. She was
Speaker 2: like assults it by her father and now you're like
Speaker 2: doing these weird things. So and Catherine's crying and Rose goes,
Speaker 2: are you drunk? And she goes, I've never been more
Speaker 2: clear headed in my life. And Rose says we should talk,
Speaker 2: and then we see Frank's in the back and he
Speaker 2: makes this like a symbol with his hands to like
Speaker 2: start rolling. So now they're like taping Catherine having this
Speaker 2: like full mental breakdown, which is warranted, and she's like
Speaker 2: Frank took her into the laundry room and sexually abused her.
Speaker 2: And she's pointing at Chelsea and it's like, so the
Speaker 2: whole set you have to point at the child and
Speaker 2: be like she was abused.
Speaker 1: This makes no sense. All these people and you're taping it.
Speaker 1: It's like, so fucked up. Yeah, the dad's taping it,
Speaker 1: the mom's doing it.
Speaker 2: These are This is very much like the Hayden Paneter
Speaker 2: abuse episode of like these narcissist already parents and so
Speaker 2: and now okay, so then now Frank goes behind Chelsea
Speaker 2: and rubs her shoulder and Catherine puts her hand to
Speaker 2: her face and shock. Chelsea looks uncomfortable and upset. She goes, mom,
Speaker 2: can we go please? And she's about to cry. And
Speaker 2: this little girl again, best sad face I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: And there's a long line of sad face actresses of
Speaker 2: this of this series, and I will say she is top.
Speaker 2: She would be nominated for the sad face. She's a
Speaker 2: good sad little kid.
Speaker 1: I was looking her up and the squad is watching
Speaker 1: this on the laptop and it's like, so this is
Speaker 1: the woman concerned with her daughter's privacy, okay, And she
Speaker 1: busts in again with her daughter into the precinct and
Speaker 1: the non famous sister and leave the child at home again.
Speaker 4: Does the daughter have to go back to the police.
Speaker 1: It's nuts.
Speaker 2: So then she wants to press charges. She's done, let's
Speaker 2: go all the way. Something has to be done. So
Speaker 2: now we're in a room with a camera and Barbara's
Speaker 2: talking in court through a TV screen and then Chelsea's
Speaker 2: being videotaped here and basically she's like, he touched me,
Speaker 2: he kissed me, and you know, she drew in a
Speaker 2: drawing that she made for Benson where he touched and
Speaker 2: kissed her. And I really like Barbara talking to kids.
Speaker 2: And then Tambour lawyer, his name is Lester, Hello, Lester
Speaker 2: than molester, and so he calls her a good girl.
Speaker 1: Disgusting.
Speaker 2: I hate that, and he's implying that the mom is
Speaker 2: telling her what to say. And Catherine's now on the
Speaker 2: stand and she's explaining how Chelsea came to her and
Speaker 2: said her vagina her and that daddy played with her
Speaker 2: down there, and Benson's like staring down Frank. She hates him,
Speaker 2: and Catherine's like, yeah, this sucks. I don't want this
Speaker 2: to be true. I don't you know that my spouse
Speaker 2: would do this, especially after sleeping with my teen's sister.
Speaker 2: And it's like objection relevance and it's like, hello, a
Speaker 2: pattern of being a pedophile, you weirdo. The judge allows it.
Speaker 2: He was her brother in law and knew her since
Speaker 2: she was a toddler. The connection is obsession with both
Speaker 2: of them around the same age. And then she talks
Speaker 2: about grooming, and then Lester says, move to strike an
Speaker 2: alienated wife is not an expert witness, and that is
Speaker 2: like a pretty sick line. So then Barbara does a
Speaker 2: good job. But now it's time for cross. So he
Speaker 2: starts by saying that he was always a fan of
Speaker 2: her being an actress, and he says, like, you know
Speaker 2: all the things you're talking about with Frank, huggs, kisses, tickles,
Speaker 2: that's normal dad stuff. And she goes, sure, but I
Speaker 2: have a son. He never touches or plays with him.
Speaker 2: And he then implies it's revenge for this relationship and
Speaker 2: the relationship with Rose and she's like, yeah, I hate him.
Speaker 1: I'm angry at him.
Speaker 2: This isn't like why I took her to the doctor, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know why you're trying to connect this and
Speaker 2: there's no connecting. And then not famous sister is watching
Speaker 2: in the galley and he shows her a porcelain figurine
Speaker 2: she sent to Frank and it's a woman with her
Speaker 2: heart being ripped out and there's like blood all over
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, so she sent him a statue like,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's that crazy. She was left for
Speaker 2: her teen's sister, Like, I just don't understand why she's.
Speaker 4: Not allowed to be pissed.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: The way they're spinning this is so nuts to me.
Speaker 2: I'm sure she wanted revenge, but it doesn't mean she
Speaker 2: would do this to Chelsea, you know. And he goes
Speaker 2: But here we are, and it's like everyone is sad.
Speaker 2: But now the nanny's on the stand and she lies
Speaker 2: for Frank. She says that all they did was play chess,
Speaker 2: and she talks about meditation.
Speaker 4: This is probably why they did the Tibet stuff.
Speaker 2: So she meditates and she focuses on the present, not
Speaker 2: the past, and so she can't really attest to anything
Speaker 2: she said to Finn at all and doesn't remember anything
Speaker 2: the tights nothing like, you know, she's like that girl
Speaker 2: loves her father. And now they're in the hallway and
Speaker 2: the non famous sister goes, that's it. Frank gets what
Speaker 2: he wants because everything's for sale, and Barba is like,
Speaker 2: she's Tibetan for all we know, he talked to the
Speaker 2: fucking dolly Lama and it's like such a crux of
Speaker 2: this episode. So then Benson stops and goes, hold on,
Speaker 2: what do you mean? He always gets what he wants,
Speaker 2: and she is like, connections, fame, people bend the rules
Speaker 2: for him, and she's pissed that she you know that,
Speaker 2: like Chelsea is in this type of situation. She's like Catherine,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Why would you do this? And Catherine's like, well,
Speaker 2: what about me? And she's like, he made you a star.
Speaker 2: You actually believe that people can think that you didn't
Speaker 2: know what kind of man he was, and Catherine is stunned.
Speaker 2: The detectives in Barba are uncomfortable to witness this, and
Speaker 2: so now we're at work, there's so many character witnesses,
Speaker 2: like it sucks, like oh, he's the best. She's crazy,
Speaker 2: he's a national treasure and Rollins just doesn't see it,
Speaker 2: and Finn goes he is guilty. Murphy asks to talk
Speaker 2: to Rollin's alone in the office and basically confronts her
Speaker 2: about her pick me vibes. So why are you protecting
Speaker 2: Frank and she's like, I don't like to see innocent
Speaker 2: men get railroaded. But then she brings up the music
Speaker 2: teacher and that was Billy Porter and he didn't do
Speaker 2: anything wrong. So she's like, well, why are you even
Speaker 2: asking me? And he says, you've had complicated relationships with
Speaker 2: older male mentors Atlanta Cragan. She says, what was so
Speaker 2: complicated with Craigan and Murphy responds that they found a
Speaker 2: dead hooker in his bed. You tell me, and she's like,
Speaker 2: he was set up and then he says, probably how
Speaker 2: about your dad and she goes, yeah, he did a
Speaker 2: little gambling.
Speaker 4: He goes, did he get into trouble?
Speaker 2: She says, yeah, but mostly with my mom, who wrote
Speaker 2: his ass and nagged him until he had to leave,
Speaker 2: and he asks if she has a blind spot when
Speaker 2: it comes to men in power, and she is pissed.
Speaker 2: She has a pissed soft face and says nothing. If
Speaker 2: a dude I casually fucked then then impregnated me said
Speaker 2: this to me, I would murder him.
Speaker 1: Ah. I don't know if she's been Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think he's impregnated her yet I can't believe she fucked him.
Speaker 2: After this, I was pissed, Well, do you have an
Speaker 2: issue with men in power?
Speaker 1: Fuck me? Proves his point, like she proves it, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, all right, Frank's on the stage and
Speaker 1: he's like, listen, the bitch is old.
Speaker 4: She's mad.
Speaker 2: She's old. You know, she was my muse and now
Speaker 2: she has to do old hag parts. And it is
Speaker 2: what it is. She's lying about me being a pedophile.
Speaker 2: I'm a good guy. And you know what, Catherine, I
Speaker 2: know it's been hard for you. This is like really hard,
Speaker 2: but it's sad you had to drag Chelsea into this.
Speaker 2: I love my child and I would do nothing to
Speaker 2: harm her. And this is you know, this charge is
Speaker 2: out there and that's the worst thing for me. This
Speaker 2: is bad for me.
Speaker 1: And he does a whole monologue, but he plays dressed
Speaker 1: up with his daughter.
Speaker 2: She's a brilliant actor. She's playing a part that's just
Speaker 2: written by her mother, and that's the issue. It's so rehearsed,
Speaker 2: and then apologizes to Catherine Benson scoffs, I can't believe
Speaker 2: there's no objection, but I guess we have to watch
Speaker 2: Bradley Woodford work like there's a reason he's here. And
Speaker 2: he's like, I would never hurt my daughter, and again
Speaker 2: being weird, why would I risk everything that I've accomplished
Speaker 2: or I'm not a pedophile, So I would never do that,
Speaker 2: whether I've accomplished a lot or not, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: And also it's like nobody asks themselves that because they
Speaker 1: know they're not because they've accomplished so much, they're not
Speaker 1: gonna get punished. I don't think they're all worried about
Speaker 1: risking their accomplishments. There. They want to see how far
Speaker 1: they can go a lot of the time, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so whatever, and he goes, I'm not a pedophile.
Speaker 2: Murphy goes, fuck, you know, that was great acting. That's
Speaker 2: better acting than on any of his shows. He fucking
Speaker 2: charmed them, and Barbara goes, don't worry. When I get
Speaker 2: done with him, it won't matter, and then Benson's like
Speaker 2: Mavis the middle sister wasn't there. I'm gonna go talk
Speaker 2: to her. So they go to Catherine's apartment. She didn't
Speaker 2: want to go to court because she didn't want to
Speaker 2: keep hearing Frank slies. So she was twelve when him
Speaker 2: and Catherine got married. And then she sits down and
Speaker 2: after a few leading questions, finally gets to like, hey,
Speaker 2: did Frank do something to you? And she doesn't. She
Speaker 2: says it doesn't even matter if he did. He's getting
Speaker 2: away with everything, and Benson goes, he doesn't have to.
Speaker 2: You love Chelsea, protect her. You can protect her and
Speaker 2: court on the stand, and she's like so many his
Speaker 2: lawyers can call me crazy and ridicule me. No thanks,
Speaker 2: And Benson's eyeliner is so perfect and awesome in the scene, smoldering.
Speaker 2: And then we see her on the news style program
Speaker 2: Mavis the non famous sister. I guess, yeah, So she's
Speaker 2: wearing all red and she's doing an interview. She goes,
Speaker 2: I've been dealing with this for eighteen years, and she
Speaker 2: explains that when she was thirteen that Frank gave her
Speaker 2: a part in one of his shows and if she
Speaker 2: did well, she could do more because after she taped
Speaker 2: the episode, she was at a party at one of
Speaker 2: Frank's producer's houses and there was a bunch of famous
Speaker 2: actors there a lot of attention, and right away he's like,
Speaker 2: you want to go in the hot tub, and she's
Speaker 2: struggling to speak. Her eyes are getting glassy as she
Speaker 2: explains that he put his hands under her bathing suit,
Speaker 2: inside of her and then raped her and said, how
Speaker 2: all this? And then he said all his leading ladies
Speaker 2: got their roles this way. And she was thirteen and
Speaker 2: believed him, and Catherine loved him, and he took care
Speaker 2: of her whole family, and she saw it happen with Rose,
Speaker 2: and she tried to warn but Rose kept saying that
Speaker 2: you're just jealous. And it's like, of what, I guess
Speaker 2: he's famous. I'm like of a like not I mean,
Speaker 2: Bradley Whitford is hot, but like this guy is not hot.
Speaker 1: I like, you know what I.
Speaker 2: Mean, m liked Why would Mavis be so jealous of Rose?
Speaker 2: It's like such manipulation and stuff. But yeah, but then
Speaker 2: and so basically, she also didn't want Catherine to know,
Speaker 2: and then Catherine didn't want to know. And then she
Speaker 2: says she saw the photos of Rose and she found that,
Speaker 2: and she's the one that leaked them.
Speaker 4: She's like, I had to do something.
Speaker 2: He won't stop, he's hurting my niece, and everyone just
Speaker 2: looked the other way. She's fully crying. Now, all those
Speaker 2: people that sat in silence and watched our Frank's accomplices,
Speaker 2: If you think talent negates responsibility, you're just as guilty
Speaker 2: as Frank. And she doesn't want to be one of
Speaker 2: those people anymore. She didn't make it up, she didn't
Speaker 2: imagine it, and he knows what he did. And she
Speaker 2: says this looking directly into the camera. So now we're
Speaker 2: in chambers and Lester's like, hey, my my dude can't
Speaker 2: get a fair trial. And the judge goes, I don't care.
Speaker 2: Barba's gonna cross examine like we're doing it, and he goes, well, actually,
Speaker 2: I don't even think my client's going to be here,
Speaker 2: and she's like, okay, well he can be found guilty
Speaker 2: and of sentia, like I don't give a fuck, but
Speaker 2: produce him. Where is he And he's like I don't
Speaker 2: think I can. So he's fled the fucking country and
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, well, I'm willing to wave cross and goes
Speaker 2: straight to summation, and Barbara turns and says, and I
Speaker 2: won't imply him fleeing is proof of guilt because that
Speaker 2: would be wrong. Right, So the trial's going on, and
Speaker 2: now tomorrow's in the office. Frank turned up and he's
Speaker 2: in fucking France. Rollin's being a fucking idiot, says, the
Speaker 2: court has his passport. How did he fly? It's like
Speaker 2: he's rich, you dumb bitch. Private jet, private jet, dual citizenship.
Speaker 2: So he has dual citizenship, and Finn says, live from Paris,
Speaker 2: and yeah, he's doing an interview. He says, they have
Speaker 2: a vendetta. Everyone's jealous of me. And it's like, you
Speaker 2: are fucking your wife's teen daughter, I mean, sister, all
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Everyone. I don't know what to say, the sister less
Speaker 1: than the daughter, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: He goes A man can be accused with no evidence
Speaker 2: and vilified. And it's like your pube was found, you
Speaker 2: lied about being in the laundry room. And then Rose
Speaker 2: speaks and goes, it's not true. If those things were true,
Speaker 2: I would not be here. Frank is an artist and
Speaker 2: my hero, and Murphy goes, ugh, this is a sideshow nightmare.
Speaker 2: But we're back in court. He is found guilty and
Speaker 2: the press is, you know, gonna be all over like
Speaker 2: the women, and so they're gonna do an escort.
Speaker 1: So Murphy gets them an escort.
Speaker 2: They help him get like into the building, the apartment building,
Speaker 2: and Catherine thanks Benson and it seems like legit and
Speaker 2: she goes, and then Benson says, just take care of
Speaker 2: your daughter, and she does a little interview while holding
Speaker 2: Chelsea's hand.
Speaker 1: Again, let the girl be I just I can't.
Speaker 2: So basically Catherine goes, you know, he's a convicted felon
Speaker 2: in the eyes of the court, and we want privacy,
Speaker 2: and Benson and Chelsea make intense eye contact while Benson
Speaker 2: it talks about her family tragedy with Amorrow. She's like
Speaker 2: looking at this girl while talking shit about her. So
Speaker 2: it's like, if he's a peto, it's good he's gone.
Speaker 2: And if it's fake, then Chelsea lives with a full
Speaker 2: blown narcissist that told her to lie. And she says,
Speaker 2: either way, God help that child. And then it's like
Speaker 2: just a close up of Chelsea's face with flashes from
Speaker 2: all the media cameras on her little sad face and
Speaker 2: that's stick wolf baby, And obviously I can't.
Speaker 4: I can't. I want to know what you have to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I swore that this girl, Chelsea, who's played by
Speaker 1: an actress named Claire Foley, she just seems so familiar
Speaker 1: to me, like I'd seen her in another SVU, but
Speaker 1: this is the only one she's done. But I'm looking
Speaker 1: out for her. I feel like she's gonna she didn't
Speaker 1: see her more stuff. Yeah, she was really great. Okay,
Speaker 1: So obviously, very obviously this is based on Woody Allen.
Speaker 1: It's kind of wild. The show was on air for
Speaker 1: fifteen years before they fucked with the Woody Allen stuff
Speaker 1: because all the Woody Allen stuff really like went down
Speaker 1: previous to the show even coming on the air. But
Speaker 1: then I would say around the time of this episode,
Speaker 1: which is what year again, twenty fourteen, is when a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff kicked back up. So I think that's
Speaker 1: why they're tackling it at this time. So Woody Allen
Speaker 1: obviously fame director. He was forty five.
Speaker 2: Married his stepdaughter, and everyone's okay with it. It's crazy,
Speaker 2: sorry to scream, but yeah, it's upsetting.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, he was forty five and nineteen eighty when
Speaker 1: he started dating Mia Farrow, who was thirty five, and
Speaker 1: Mia Faraoh had previously been married to Frank Sinatra for
Speaker 1: two years. She had previously been married to a man
Speaker 1: named Andre Previn, and she had six kids with Andre Previn,
Speaker 1: three biological children, three adopted, including sun Ye Previn, who
Speaker 1: was adopted from Korea. Sun Yi's like background in Korea
Speaker 1: is like very like fuzzy, like nobody really knows. Like
Speaker 1: she was apparently found on the street and then was
Speaker 1: taken to an orphanage. She doesn't really have a lot
Speaker 1: of memory about her mother, but like she says, me
Speaker 1: and Pharah would always be like, tell everyone your mom
Speaker 1: was a prostitute, and like tell everyone about your hard beginnings,
Speaker 1: and like she didn't really want to do that because
Speaker 1: she didn't have those memories. But she it's it's a
Speaker 1: little bit weird because they don't really know Suni's actual age,
Speaker 1: Like they can like sort of date it that she
Speaker 1: was between five and seven when Mia adopted her, and
Speaker 1: so I think they would say six, but like her
Speaker 1: age is a little bit like up for debate. So
Speaker 1: when Woody Allen and Mia Farrow got together, she adopted.
Speaker 1: She also had two adopted children, Dylan and Moses, who
Speaker 1: would he then co adopted in nineteen ninety one, but
Speaker 1: they were previously adopted by Mia Farrow. So Woody Allen
Speaker 1: and Mia Farah had one by logical child together, Satchel,
Speaker 1: who was known today as Ronan Pharaoh, who many people,
Speaker 1: including Ronan himself joke, is not actually Woody Farah Alan's son,
Speaker 1: and is actually Frank Sinatra's son, to whom Mia Farah
Speaker 1: was briefly married from sixty six to sixty eight. Even
Speaker 1: Mia Farah herself told Danity Fair he could be Sinatra's child,
Speaker 1: saying they never really broke up, so they were clearly
Speaker 1: having like affairs after they were not married anymore. Ronan
Speaker 1: was born in nineteen eighty seven, which was smack in
Speaker 1: the middle of her relationship with Woody Allen and Woody
Speaker 1: Allen's like, I like to think he's my son.
Speaker 4: Is it possibly? He's not sure anyway.
Speaker 1: When Alan and Farah got together, sun Yee Previn was
Speaker 1: ten years old, like I said, her mother had adopted
Speaker 1: her from Korea at age five or six. According to
Speaker 1: Sun Yee, they her and her mother were like oil
Speaker 1: and water, like she doesn't remember feeling any maternal feelings
Speaker 1: from Mia Pharaoh. She has really nothing good to say
Speaker 1: about growing up with her as a mother. She says
Speaker 1: she and her adopted siblings were treat like maids. They
Speaker 1: did the shopping, the cooking, the cleaning, and did a lot.
Speaker 1: They were really self sufficient and just did like a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff for the family. And she doesn't speak
Speaker 1: fondly of her mom. I mean, she has said stuff
Speaker 1: like I'm grateful obviously that she adopted me from an
Speaker 1: orphanage and like gave me a better life, but like
Speaker 1: she did not feel a lot of parental warmth from
Speaker 1: Mia Pharaoh and didn't feel like they had like a
Speaker 1: great connection. Moses also later on described some of the
Speaker 1: treatment of himself and his siblings as abuse, so it
Speaker 1: was not like, you know, she all together. Mia Pharaoh
Speaker 1: has fourteen kids, yeah, and I believe four of them
Speaker 1: are biological and the other ten are adopted. And she
Speaker 1: adopted a few kids who were like a couple of
Speaker 1: the kids she adopted were blind or had other like
Speaker 1: health problems, and so she like one was paraplegic. So
Speaker 1: she was really like to adopt children that felt like
Speaker 1: were you know, needed help and that this was like
Speaker 1: a big a passion of hers was adopting children. And
Speaker 1: you know, three of these children are no longer living.
Speaker 1: One took their own life, another died of heart failure,
Speaker 1: but Moses suggests that that was actually self inflicted from
Speaker 1: a pill overdose. And then Lark, one of her daughters,
Speaker 1: died in poverty of AIDS related pneumonia after battling addiction.
Speaker 1: So sadly, yeah, three of these children are no longer alive.
Speaker 1: And then during Pharaoh and Allen's relationship, they never lived together.
Speaker 1: They lived in apartments across Central Park from each other,
Speaker 1: like she lived on Central Park West, he lived on
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. So soun Yee claims that he was never
Speaker 1: like a father to her. He had no clothes at
Speaker 1: their house, not a toothbrush, He never adopted them. He is,
Speaker 1: in her mind, her mother's boyfriend. She said she didn't
Speaker 1: even know him very well and didn't like him. And
Speaker 1: then it wasn't until when she was in eleventh grade
Speaker 1: that they started going to Knix games together, which apparently
Speaker 1: was encouraged by Mia Farroh, who said that you know,
Speaker 1: Sunny was shy and had like you know, like like
Speaker 1: they wanted her to get out a little bit more,
Speaker 1: and that he was always looking for someone to go
Speaker 1: to basketball games with. So apparently because of her age thing,
Speaker 1: and also because she has a learning disability that she
Speaker 1: admits to, but apparently in a lot of press, Mia
Speaker 1: Farah would make it seem like sun Nye was really
Speaker 1: really mentally disabled. And she's like, she made me seem like,
Speaker 1: I mean, she uses the R word. She's like, she
Speaker 1: made me seem like that in the press all the time,
Speaker 1: and like that's not who I am. I'm not like,
Speaker 1: I'm not like slow. I do have some spelling like
Speaker 1: learning disabilities, like you know, probably just lexis. I don't
Speaker 1: know if she she specifies, but she's like, but I'm
Speaker 1: not like, this is a woman who went to college,
Speaker 1: went to grad school at Columbia. Like she's she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm smart, you know, I don't. I didn't like she
Speaker 1: classified me. She characterized me as like, you know, needing
Speaker 1: mental help for a lot of my life. And so
Speaker 1: when she does start hanging out with him, some of
Speaker 1: the accounts say she's nineteen or twenty, even though she's
Speaker 1: in eleventh grade. So like, I mean, maybe she's been
Speaker 1: held back because of some of the like learning disabilities
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 4: But she's apparently.
Speaker 1: Nineteen or so when they even first start hanging out
Speaker 1: going to the basketball games. Okay, and then at nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety one, she's twenty one and she's a freshman in college.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm just trying to like figure out
Speaker 1: the timeline year because I was really confused because freshman
Speaker 1: in college. To me, I was seventeen When I was
Speaker 1: a freshman, you're seventeen or eighteen usually, But she's already
Speaker 1: like twenty one as a freshman in college because I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe she took time off, who knows, But
Speaker 1: that is when they started the affair, when she was
Speaker 1: a freshman in college. It was sometime that ball. She says,
Speaker 1: she came home from college, they were watching a movie.
Speaker 1: He kissed her. She was like excited, but she had
Speaker 1: never really seen him that way. And now and now
Speaker 1: she says she fell for really really fast. So she's
Speaker 1: twenty one, he's fifty six. They're very vague, quote unquote
Speaker 1: on one thing turned sexual. Okay, So what I find
Speaker 1: very strange is that in December of nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 1: the affair with Sunie had already begun. That's when he
Speaker 1: officially adopts Moses and Dylan, and like he's telling Sun
Speaker 1: Yi Oh, things with me and I have been like
Speaker 1: over for a long time, like we're really not you know,
Speaker 1: we're going through the motions. We're not really in love anymore.
Speaker 1: And like why are you going through the motions of
Speaker 1: adopting these children if you are sleeping with their sister?
Speaker 1: Like do you know what I mean? Like that's really
Speaker 1: weird to me. It's like I would have pushed that off.
Speaker 1: I would have been like, oh, I can't sign right now.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like he's like, and you know, so
Speaker 1: in January of nineteen ninety two, like right after he
Speaker 1: finalizes the adoption of these two other children of me
Speaker 1: of MIA's she Mia Faroh, discovers a stack of polaroids
Speaker 1: in whaty Allen's apartment of SUNNYI, in which she is
Speaker 1: fully nude, spread eagle that he says later he took
Speaker 1: those pictures because she was interested in modeling. I don't
Speaker 1: know how many modeling agencies want to see full frontal
Speaker 1: in order to you know, sign you we have to
Speaker 1: rewatch that model, Docancy if that was ever like I
Speaker 1: don't think that's a thing. But he also describes the
Speaker 1: pictures as erotic and not pornographic. I don't fucking know
Speaker 1: what to say, but when she sees those pictures, mea
Speaker 1: Pharaoh fucking loses it, obviously, and she ended their relationship
Speaker 1: after it had been eleven to twelve years. And again,
Speaker 1: Woody Allen and soonior Y are like, but their relationship
Speaker 1: had been over for years. Blah blah blah. So there's
Speaker 1: all this family drama at the time over the Sunye
Speaker 1: and Woody Allen affair. Mea Pharaoh sends Woody Allen what
Speaker 1: is called a got what is referred to in a
Speaker 1: lot of the press as a Gothic valentine, which is
Speaker 1: like a photo collage of the family and pin going
Speaker 1: through all of the kid's hearts and a knife going
Speaker 1: through her heart. So that's kind of where they get
Speaker 1: this statue thing from the episode. Okay, so she does
Speaker 1: send that, and she apparently kicks sun Ye out of
Speaker 1: the house.
Speaker 4: She slaps sun Yie a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: Her Sunny Like is a little bit freaking out because
Speaker 1: her dad is going to cut her off financially too.
Speaker 1: Like Andrea Previn is like you're dead to me. I'm
Speaker 1: not paying for college anymore. And Mia is telling Woody
Speaker 1: Allen that Sunni is suicidal, which Sunny says is not
Speaker 1: true at all, so I don't. I also didn't realize
Speaker 1: ever in all the coverage of this that I've ever read,
Speaker 1: that at the same time that this is all going on,
Speaker 1: Mia Parah is actively acting in a Woody Allen movie
Speaker 1: called Husbands and Wives, Like they are on set finishing
Speaker 1: a movie together while this is all happening, which is
Speaker 1: what fucking nuts. Yes, So over that summer, like so
Speaker 1: now it's summer of ninety one, I get oh no, sorry,
Speaker 1: So summer of ninety two, Sunny goes to be a
Speaker 1: camp counselor in Maine, but she gets fired because she's
Speaker 1: not connecting with the kids, I guess. And she keeps
Speaker 1: getting phone calls from a man claiming to be mister Simon,
Speaker 1: but it's Woody Allen's like code name, right, so he
Speaker 1: keeps calling her at camp. He says he was just
Speaker 1: calling her to make sure that she was financially okay,
Speaker 1: because like her dad is cutting her off and like
Speaker 1: who knows if me is giving her money whatever. So
Speaker 1: then this all is going down in January, right, and
Speaker 1: then the months after this is all just happening inside
Speaker 1: the family that this has been discovered. And in August
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety two, eight months after the first you know,
Speaker 1: polaroids are discovered, Mia Farrow alleges that Woody Allen has
Speaker 1: molested their daughter, Dylan, who is aged seven, in a
Speaker 1: crawl space in her home in Bridgewater, Connecticut. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: the episode is really ripping it straight from the story.
Speaker 1: She makes a video asking Dylan all these questions, and
Speaker 1: a video that a lot of people think is a
Speaker 1: smoking gun against Alan, but a lot of people think
Speaker 1: is proof that Mia Farroll coached this young girl about
Speaker 1: what to say. And Alan, of course thinks that Mia
Speaker 1: Farroh concocted this whole charge to get back at him
Speaker 1: for the Sunni affair. And weirdly, sun Yee says in
Speaker 1: an interview many years later that she says that like
Speaker 1: she thought this thing with what he was a fling.
Speaker 1: She was like, I thought I was going to meet
Speaker 1: somebody in college and like get a boyfriend. He was
Speaker 1: telling me to sleep with people in college. Like I
Speaker 1: just thought this was gonna be like a thing like
Speaker 1: I didn't think this was gonna last, but they ended
Speaker 1: up just getting thrown together during the chaos of this
Speaker 1: molestation charge. So and like spoiler alert, they're still fucking
Speaker 1: together today. It's been almost thirty years. So the case
Speaker 1: is so chaotic, it's unfolding fast and furious in the press,
Speaker 1: in the court of public opinion. Like a little over
Speaker 1: a week after Dylan's alleged abuse, according to Alan, two
Speaker 1: of me as lawyers, Alan Dershowitz and David Levitt floated
Speaker 1: to him the idea of how about a five to
Speaker 1: seven million dollar reconciliation like payment, just like a quick, immediate,
Speaker 1: confidential payment to Mia and then we'll be done with this.
Speaker 1: And I guess that same day he decided that he
Speaker 1: thought his kids were unsafe being with this woman that
Speaker 1: was coaching them into saying things like that, and he
Speaker 1: sued me in New York State Supreme Court for custody
Speaker 1: of Satchel aka Ronan, Dylan, and Moses, saying they were
Speaker 1: unsafe with her and would be turned against him. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he got an alienation lawyer, uh, as we
Speaker 1: talked about in the episode alien but Fordstein, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dershowitz's I mean, he's all over the place. I don't
Speaker 1: think he's ever doing anything good, So like shit is
Speaker 1: just going down crazy. And so four days after he
Speaker 1: sues for custody of these three children, he releases a
Speaker 1: statement confirming his relationship with Sun Yee, confirming it's all
Speaker 1: true and that he's in love with her, which Sun
Speaker 1: ye herself took her by surprise. She's like, we had
Speaker 1: not told each other that we loved each other like
Speaker 1: in that way. But she said she was in love
Speaker 1: with him from the first time they kissed, and I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I like sort of can't with that, but.
Speaker 2: She well, like because she also said it was going
Speaker 2: to be a fling. So was it going to be
Speaker 2: a fling or yeah? I think the moment, yeah, she.
Speaker 1: Said, like because he at the beginning, he was saying, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to like hold you down,
Speaker 1: go be with boys from school, do whatever. And I think,
Speaker 1: like every minute that they were together, she says, she
Speaker 1: just fell so hard and fast for him that him
Speaker 1: even kissing her the first time, she knows how quiet
Speaker 1: and like introverted he is, and so it was such
Speaker 1: a big move for him to do that that that
Speaker 1: like made her interested, and then she was like, we
Speaker 1: were just so attracted to each other, like right, But
Speaker 1: even though she said that none of that really existed
Speaker 1: when she was a nineteen year old high school junior.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what to make of
Speaker 1: any of this. There's like so many different fucking things
Speaker 1: that they're all like saying they're positive about. So meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the shit is going on with Dylan's assault alleged assault,
Speaker 1: and the Connecticut State's Attorney's office is investigating that because
Speaker 1: it happened at this home in Bridgewater, Connecticut, in like
Speaker 1: northwest Connecticut, so they investigated the allegation, but they did
Speaker 1: not press charges against Woody Allen. And then Dylan was
Speaker 1: referred to the Child Sexual Abuse Clinic at Yale New
Speaker 1: Haven Hospital shout out where my brother did his residency.
Speaker 4: And then in May of nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: Three, so this is from August to May, so like
Speaker 1: eight months later. John Levenhal, the pediatrician who headed the
Speaker 1: team at the clinic, concluded that Allan had not sexually
Speaker 1: abused Dylan, and that she was emotionally unstable and her
Speaker 1: mother had likely coached or influenced her testimony. According to
Speaker 1: the report, Dylan's statements were inconsistence and lacked spontaneity. They
Speaker 1: gave the impression of repeating something learned. The report also
Speaker 1: mentioned that Dylan felt she had to solve her mother's problems.
Speaker 1: It also indicated that the relationship between Pharaoh, Dylan and
Speaker 1: Satchel was very disturbed and required immediate intensive psychotherapy. I
Speaker 1: should also mention that there is a lot of talk
Speaker 1: that Mia Farrow sort of favored her biological sons versus
Speaker 1: her adopted daughters. So Dylan was just a couple of
Speaker 1: years older than Satchel aka Ronan, and when he was born,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of accounts that she was obsessed with him,
Speaker 1: and that she kind of dropped Dylan, and that Dylan
Speaker 1: was like upset that like her mom's attention completely went
Speaker 1: to the younger brother, but that she would like lock
Speaker 1: herself away in her bedroom for like days at a time,
Speaker 1: just her and Satchel aka Ronan, like, you know, like
Speaker 1: breastfeeding him. I mean, she says she was like she
Speaker 1: says she was just recovering from a tough delivery, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. So there's an implication among some accounts
Speaker 1: that Dylan would kind of do anything to earn back
Speaker 1: her mother's attention. I don't know if that's true. It's
Speaker 1: all very fucked up also, But like then soun Yee says,
Speaker 1: we were treated like we were treated like servants, like
Speaker 1: the girls that were adopted, Like we had to do
Speaker 1: all this like labor around the house and stuff, and
Speaker 1: so like I don't know, who knows, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's saying that stuff manipulated from Ody Allen. I'm
Speaker 1: literally you could this would be like, this could be
Speaker 1: this case could be its own ten part podcast pretty much.
Speaker 1: So if I'm not getting every single piece of information,
Speaker 1: it's because we are limited on time here and I
Speaker 1: don't have like a research staff. So a month after
Speaker 1: this report is given by the Yale New Haven Clinic,
Speaker 1: in a thirty three page decision, Judge Elliott wilk questioned
Speaker 1: the work of the Yale group, calling it sanitized. He
Speaker 1: also denied Alan's city request, as as well as any
Speaker 1: visitation writes with Dylan. So Woody Allen appealed a year later,
Speaker 1: and he lost that as well, and New York State
Speaker 1: Child Welfare investigators completed a second inquiry into the case,
Speaker 1: concluding that quote, no credible evidence was found that Dylan
Speaker 1: had been abused or maltreated, So that's sort of like
Speaker 1: what happens with that. A few years later, December twenty third,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Woody Allen, aged sixty two, and sun
Speaker 1: Ye Previn, aged twenty seven, are married, and like I said,
Speaker 1: they have a quiet they have a little like quiet
Speaker 1: ceremony like I think courthouse, and then they are still
Speaker 1: married almost thirty years later. They together have two adopted children,
Speaker 1: because soun Ye finds having biological children to be vain
Speaker 1: and egocentric. She has said so in twenty thirteen. So
Speaker 1: then it's in ninety seven, this all like they get married,
Speaker 1: and then it sort of did die down for a while,
Speaker 1: like people did not talk about the case a lot
Speaker 1: from for about fifteen years. And then in twenty thirteen
Speaker 1: Dylan spoke out to Vanity Fair, and then in twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen she did an op ed in the New York Times,
Speaker 1: and in twenty seventeen, amidst them a lot of the
Speaker 1: me Too movement, she did another op ed in the
Speaker 1: LA Times where she was kind of like, wow, you
Speaker 1: guys are all really giving it to Harvey Weinstein like
Speaker 1: why is Woody Allan still allowed to make movies? Like
Speaker 1: why is this man who Like I've been consistent in
Speaker 1: my story for years, like I've always said, this is
Speaker 1: what happened, And basically what she her account is that
Speaker 1: on this day in nineteen ninety two, a ton of
Speaker 1: people are at the house, various siblings, brothers and sisters,
Speaker 1: a family friend, that family friend's three kids, the family
Speaker 1: friends nanny, MIA's nanny. All these people are there, and
Speaker 1: I think Mia and her family friend go out shopping
Speaker 1: or something and they leave, but Woody is there, and
Speaker 1: everybody knows that Woody is not allowed to be alone
Speaker 1: with Dylan, because Villen has said for a long time
Speaker 1: that people had noticed that he had a lot of
Speaker 1: attention towards her, a lot of doting behavior, bouncing on
Speaker 1: his lap like ways that he did not act towards
Speaker 1: his other children, his other adopted children, or his biological children,
Speaker 1: Like apparently him and Ronan had a relationship similar to
Speaker 1: Mia and Sunyize, like they were kind of oil and water.
Speaker 1: They never really clicked, and but he was super super
Speaker 1: doting on Dylan and she didn't always like it, Okay,
Speaker 1: And so then her claim is that on this day
Speaker 1: when when Mia is out and all these people are around, though,
Speaker 1: he brings her upstairs to this crawl space and tells
Speaker 1: her to look at the toy train set and put
Speaker 1: her on her stomach, and that he touched her vagina,
Speaker 1: And she has said in interviews later, yeah, like he
Speaker 1: touched my labia and my volva.
Speaker 4: So that like, whereas the episode.
Speaker 1: Gets into like a pube and all this other stuff,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that was ever anything that came
Speaker 1: up in this thing. But this is what Dylan's account is,
Speaker 1: and that he told her if you are a good girl,
Speaker 1: you can come to Paris with me, you can be
Speaker 1: in one of my movies. Like a lot of the
Speaker 1: same shit from the episode. So this is what she's
Speaker 1: saying happened. So then in twenty eighteen, her brother Moses
Speaker 1: comes forward with a blog post and he's defending Woody
Speaker 1: Allen and he's painting a picture of a very sad
Speaker 1: childhood under MIA's roof, claiming that she was extremely moody
Speaker 1: and controlling. She often doled out huge punishments for minor infractions,
Speaker 1: like she talks about sorry. Moses talks about like his
Speaker 1: brother who was quadriplegic being left overnight in a shed
Speaker 1: outside because of some little thing he did wrong. So
Speaker 1: and in his blog he says, quote Mia told me
Speaker 1: that she was the victim of attempted molestation within her
Speaker 1: own family. Her brother, my uncle John, who visited us
Speaker 1: many times when we were young, is currently in prison
Speaker 1: on a conviction of multiple child molestation charges. My mother
Speaker 1: has never publicly commented on this or expressed concern about
Speaker 1: his victims. End quote. So, I mean Moses's blog is
Speaker 1: like really interesting because he talks all about how he's
Speaker 1: like there were so many people in the house. We
Speaker 1: all knew that Wood he was not allowed to be
Speaker 1: with Dylan. We would have noticed if they walked off together.
Speaker 1: We were all watching movies, like he was there. He
Speaker 1: walked in and out, he went to go take a walk.
Speaker 1: I saw him the whole time, Like he's acting like
Speaker 1: this didn't happen. And then there's but there's all kinds
Speaker 1: of like different accounts from like Nanny's and friends and
Speaker 1: people that were there saying they saw them come out
Speaker 1: of the crawl space or that whatever he's saying. We
Speaker 1: didn't even have a toy train set in the crawl space,
Speaker 1: the crawl space didn't even have a floor, like it's
Speaker 1: like it's like insulated, filled with spiders, Like, it's like
Speaker 1: filled with mouse droppings. It's like a place where we
Speaker 1: would hide and shit. It's like where my mom soars
Speaker 1: her old clothes. It's not really like where you would
Speaker 1: go play with someone. So I don't know he has
Speaker 1: all these And then you know, of course Woody Allen
Speaker 1: has put his own op eds in the New York
Speaker 1: Times where he's like, says a lot like what the
Speaker 1: character says, where he's like, why would I, under the
Speaker 1: scrutiny of the sun Yi thing, put myself in a
Speaker 1: position of molesting my daughter with all these people in
Speaker 1: the home.
Speaker 4: I've never done it.
Speaker 1: I've never been accused of doing it previously, and I've
Speaker 1: never done it since, So why would I this one
Speaker 1: time have to do that. So that's his defense on himself.
Speaker 1: But again it's been investigated, he's been cleared. Nothing's happened
Speaker 1: now And in twenty eighteen, soon Ye did this big,
Speaker 1: long interview with New York Magazine that I read for
Speaker 1: this for this as well, where you know, she just
Speaker 1: talks really regularly about their relationship and how they got together,
Speaker 1: and the author talks about their way of being together
Speaker 1: like very sweet and like tossling each other's hair, and
Speaker 1: if he interrupts her, she goes, you're interrupting me, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. At this point, she's a fifty something
Speaker 1: year old woman. She's a mother of two. I believe
Speaker 1: they both have they have two girls. Like, she has
Speaker 1: not recognized that she was groomed in any way. She
Speaker 1: has not said that, like, according to her, she was
Speaker 1: of age the moment any kind of romance happened between
Speaker 1: that and that.
Speaker 2: He was like, because I think about Celine Dion and
Speaker 2: it's like, listen, you guys could have loved each other
Speaker 2: and had a long life. I think it's creepy with
Speaker 2: like he knew you as a child and you got sorry,
Speaker 2: Like it's fucking creepy, Like we're allowed to think it's
Speaker 2: fucking creepy that he knew you as a ten year
Speaker 2: old and that, and then I'm seeing your notes and
Speaker 2: it's like, are those kids safe?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Because I'm seeing the Epstein stuff and he's
Speaker 1: not sorry. I guess he's not sorry. And Woody and
Speaker 1: Sunye are both in the Epstein files and what ell
Speaker 1: And says, he is not sorry for his friendship with
Speaker 1: child sex Driver or Jeffrey Epstein. I mean, listen, it's
Speaker 1: like I don't even know a lot of Woody Allen movies.
Speaker 1: We might need Casey on the mic here, but like
Speaker 1: I've talked to Jared about this before, because Jared is
Speaker 1: knows a lot of Woody Allen movies, and he's like,
Speaker 1: so many of his movies are about older men being
Speaker 1: with like younger women. It's just only seen Blue Jasmine.
Speaker 1: I think I've only seen Blue Jasmine a match Point.
Speaker 1: I think those might be the only two Woody Allen
Speaker 1: movies I've seen.
Speaker 6: I think the main movie where this comes up is
Speaker 6: the movie Manhattan.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what Jared was saying.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and in that one, he plays like a forty
Speaker 6: year old guy dating a high schooler. But that's not
Speaker 6: like the conflict of the movie. That's just like something
Speaker 6: that's in the movie and everyone accepts it in the
Speaker 6: world of the movie as like a good thing. It's
Speaker 6: very strange.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like then look at Jerry Seinfeld.
Speaker 1: I mean, like he was dating a high school senior
Speaker 1: like so, so I like, I don't know, I think
Speaker 1: that there's this romanticization I think of like teens in
Speaker 1: New York City also that they're like older and like
Speaker 1: wiser because they're city kids. And I think that Woody
Speaker 1: Allen helped to perpetuate that. But you know, yeah, so
Speaker 1: I mean, like Woody Allen talks about how on that
Speaker 1: trip to like that to the house when when the
Speaker 1: alleged sexual assault of Dylan happened, that he had given
Speaker 1: Dylan a catalog and Moses and Satchel aka Ronan catalogs,
Speaker 1: and that they had circled all like every toy in
Speaker 1: the catalog and he was going to go back into
Speaker 1: the city and buy them some toys from the catalog.
Speaker 4: And then he's like, I never saw Dylan.
Speaker 1: Again, like because then it all then it all came
Speaker 1: to And I think that it was similar as well,
Speaker 1: where Mia Paraoh didn't necessarily want to bring it to
Speaker 1: the public, the stuff, but she had brought she brought
Speaker 1: Dylan to her pediatrician, and the pediatrician is a mandated
Speaker 1: reporter and had to report it and then that when
Speaker 1: law enforcement got involved. So Mia Farah was like, I
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily even want to do this, but then what
Speaker 1: he Allen side is like, well, of course she did.
Speaker 1: This happened like eight months after the SUNI thing, and
Speaker 1: she's obviously furious about it and upset, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's like one of the most fucked up stories of
Speaker 1: our time, and that is treated like normal.
Speaker 2: It's really weird and that like people are just they
Speaker 2: ride hard for him.
Speaker 1: Oh is he Midnight in Paris? I did see that? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. Yeah. It's like a lot
Speaker 1: of the people who have been in his movies were like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to know. We don't know all
Speaker 1: the facts. Like they were very like kind of skirting
Speaker 1: around it, like Scarlett Johansson, Blake Lively, all these actresses
Speaker 1: that worked with him, and I mean probably actors as well.
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking of the few that I just read
Speaker 4: doing this research.
Speaker 1: But then now people that are seeing him in the
Speaker 1: I've seen files and him being unapologetic about Epstein are like,
Speaker 1: I regret being in his Like all these actors are
Speaker 1: coming out now and going and now I regret if
Speaker 1: I had now then what I know now, like I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been in his movie. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's gonna get more shit for just being friends
Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein. Even if he didn't know what Epstein
Speaker 1: was doing and never went to the island, then he
Speaker 1: is going to get for marrying his like wife's daughter.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ronan Pharoh will say my dad is married
Speaker 1: to my sister. That's fucked up. Like he's like, that's
Speaker 1: morally fucked up. Whether you want to like pussy foot
Speaker 1: around the fucking laws and who was what age? When
Speaker 1: that's weird and that's a weird position that you've put
Speaker 1: your other children into as well, you know, cause according
Speaker 1: to Moses Mia, Pharaoh made all the kids like cut
Speaker 1: off Woodie and said, you guys, he's evil, like made
Speaker 1: them rehearse what they said about him, and that they
Speaker 1: all and that It wasn't until later twenty eighteen where
Speaker 1: Moses came out come to his dad's defense. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on with Moses. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: he his blog post is like definitely I remember reading
Speaker 1: that in twenty eighteen sixty like eight years ago and
Speaker 1: being like, whoa, this is like a perspective on this.
Speaker 1: I hadn't read, you know, but who knows what he's
Speaker 1: going through? Like I really don't know, I really don't
Speaker 1: know what to say about this, but really fucked up
Speaker 1: and really kind of like a lot of narcissists, like
Speaker 1: you were saying in the episode, like focusing on themselves
Speaker 1: and not on like the worldfare of these children. So
Speaker 1: then that's that on whatdy Ellen, unless you have anything else,
Speaker 1: Lisa that you want to add, Okay, And then obviously
Speaker 1: the end of this episode throws a Roman Polanski twist
Speaker 1: in at the end, which is interesting because Mia Farrow
Speaker 1: first became well known for even though she's from a
Speaker 1: famous family her father was a writer director or her
Speaker 1: mother was an actress. She she became famous for her
Speaker 1: role in Rosemary's Baby, which was written and directed by
Speaker 1: Roman Polanski. So it's interesting that these two are sort
Speaker 1: of tied together in this way. These are like these
Speaker 1: are like vintage Epstein files, like everything that's going on
Speaker 1: with these people, but like she Roman Polanski a Polish
Speaker 1: French director who was essentially separated from his parents during
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. He was later reconnected with his father, but
Speaker 1: he came to the US wrote and directed Rosemary's Baby
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, the same year he married actress
Speaker 1: Sharon Tate. In nineteen sixty nine, Famously, a pregnant Sharon
Speaker 1: Tate was among those murdered by the Manson family while
Speaker 1: he was out of town. I believe he was in
Speaker 1: London filming a movie. In seventy four, he made Chinatown,
Speaker 1: which was like a huge hit. Jack Nicholson latsio credits
Speaker 1: because I just knew him as a rapist. But I
Speaker 1: guess he's made a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he made The Pianist in like two thousand and
Speaker 1: like two or three or something. I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: I definitely saw that. Yeah. In nineteen seventy seven, however,
Speaker 1: Polanski had a young girl named let me see. At
Speaker 1: the time, her name was Samantha Gaily and now she's
Speaker 1: married and her name is Samantha Geimer. I think you
Speaker 1: would say it Gei, Mr Roman. Polanski had her over,
Speaker 1: she was thirteen years old, had her over to Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholson's house, which he shared with my obsession Angelica Houston,
Speaker 1: his girlfriend at the time. I love Angelica Houston. Jack
Speaker 1: Nicholson was out of town skiing in Colorado. Angelica Houston
Speaker 1: was off the premises. He had this thirteen year old
Speaker 1: girl over Polanski, so he could photograph her as part
Speaker 1: of French Vogue, and he'd been invited to like edit
Speaker 1: French Vogue or something for a month, and her mother
Speaker 1: had allowed this to be a private photo shoot. Again,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, there's a lot of adults that
Speaker 1: are fucking up here, Like you know how people will.
Speaker 4: Blame the goalie for letting the goal in.
Speaker 1: It's like there's a lot of defense that doesn't get
Speaker 1: that doesn't stop it either from happening. Allows this thirteen
Speaker 1: year old girl to go have a private photo shoot
Speaker 1: with a grown man, and she was uncomfortable, like she
Speaker 1: had to pose topless, and so then he said later
Speaker 1: he gave her a bunch of She testified later that
Speaker 1: he gave her a bunch of champagne to like loosen
Speaker 1: her up. She was nervous, she was scared, and then
Speaker 1: he made her like lie on the bed and then
Speaker 1: he sexually assaulted her. He assaulted her, He pedetreated her
Speaker 1: vaginally and anally. He performed oral sex on her even
Speaker 1: though she didn't want that. After he gave her champagne
Speaker 1: and they allegedly shared a kaylude. So she was in
Speaker 1: and out feeling very but she also was like she
Speaker 1: remembers saying no, but she was also like if I
Speaker 1: get I guess I just get.
Speaker 4: To go home if this is done, like when this
Speaker 4: is done.
Speaker 1: So then he ended up being arrested for drugging and
Speaker 1: raping the searteen year old girl.
Speaker 4: He pleaded guilty.
Speaker 1: The charges were unlawful sexual intercourse with a female under
Speaker 1: the age of eighteen, rape by use of drugs, perversion,
Speaker 1: sodomy and elude, and lascivious act upon a child under
Speaker 1: the age of fourteen, and furnishing a controlled substance to
Speaker 1: a minor.
Speaker 4: So he a lot of charges, yeah.
Speaker 1: A lot of charges, but he pleaded guilty to the
Speaker 1: lesser charge of unlawful sex with a minor in exchange
Speaker 1: for a probation only sentence. And he also claims to
Speaker 1: save this girl a trial right. But then the night
Speaker 1: before his sentencing in nineteen seventy eight, he learned that
Speaker 1: the judge was going to reject the plea bargain, and
Speaker 1: apparently this guy was like, fuck this, I'm throwing this
Speaker 1: guy in for as long as I can and was
Speaker 1: going to give him fifty years in prison. So Polanski
Speaker 1: fled to Paris and he's a I believe he's a
Speaker 1: French citizen as well. So he continued his career and
Speaker 1: he remains currently still a fugitive from the US justice system.
Speaker 1: And in the time that he's been abroad, several other
Speaker 1: women have come forward with sexual abuse allegations by Polanski.
Speaker 1: He rarely leaves France and two thousand and eight, actually
Speaker 1: his victim said, I don't wish for him to be
Speaker 1: held to further punishment or consequences, she said. She has
Speaker 1: said that the media, reporters, the court and the judge
Speaker 1: have caused quote unquote way more damage to me and
Speaker 1: my family than anything Roman Polanski has ever done, really,
Speaker 1: and which is weird because in nineteen ninety three, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight she sued him for alleged sexual assault,
Speaker 1: false imprisonment, seduction of a minor, and intentional infliction of
Speaker 1: emotional distress. And in nineteen ninety three he settled with
Speaker 1: her for an undisclosed amount, and as of August of
Speaker 1: ninety six, he still owed her six hundred thousand. But
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that she did sue him at
Speaker 1: the time, maybe that was, like, who knows, I'm sure
Speaker 1: at the like, I don't know in hindsight, maybe people
Speaker 1: have convinced her otherwise. But in March of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: her and her husband met up with Polanski and his
Speaker 1: wife for a cover interview of French magazine, and in
Speaker 1: this interview she says, quote, let me be very clear,
Speaker 1: what happened with Polanski was never a big problem for me.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know it was illegal that someone could
Speaker 1: be arrested for it. I was fine. I'm still fine.
Speaker 1: It was so unfair and so in opposition to justice.
Speaker 1: Everyone should know by now that Roman has served his sentence,
Speaker 1: which was long. If you want my opinion, anyone who
Speaker 1: thinks that he deserves to be in prison is wrong
Speaker 1: if it isn't the case today, and it wasn't the
Speaker 1: case yesterday. End quote. But she did sue him, she
Speaker 1: did tell authorities that she said no and that she
Speaker 1: didn't want it to happen, and she protested. So I
Speaker 1: don't fucking know. In October of twenty seventeen, a German
Speaker 1: actress named Nte Langer told Swiss police that Polanski raped
Speaker 1: her in Shad when she was fifteen in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 1: Two weeks later, American artist Mary Anne Barnard accused Polanski
Speaker 1: of sexually assaulting her in nineteen seventy five when she
Speaker 1: was ten years old, and in November of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: French actress of Valentine Monier said that Polinski raped her
Speaker 1: at a ski Shelle and Stad in nineteen seventy five
Speaker 1: when she was eighteen.
Speaker 4: So those are just some of the accusations.
Speaker 1: And this guy loves to go skiing and assault teenagers,
Speaker 1: like I don't fucking know, but he's still.
Speaker 2: And people defend him. I mean, that fucking Quentin Tarantino
Speaker 2: clip was fucked, but.
Speaker 1: He also got his Cecil b de Mille Award taken away,
Speaker 1: and it turned like they were trying to after me too.
Speaker 1: Focus a little bit more on how bad it is
Speaker 1: that we're still like allowing him to release movies, like
Speaker 1: and he's still getting deals and stuff like that. I mean,
Speaker 1: Dylan Ferrell was saying, like, okay, so Weinstein is behind bars,
Speaker 1: but Amazon just signed like a multimillion dollar deal with
Speaker 1: my dad who sexually assaulted me. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there they are sort of pick and choosing on who
Speaker 1: they are, you know, going after. But Polanski's like still
Speaker 1: making stuff and living free in France. Yeah, France love
Speaker 1: sexual assault. Yeah, they really like hated me too. They
Speaker 1: think it's just like prude Americans, And I'm like, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to be getting raped at work, like fuck yeah,
Speaker 1: Like what's the big Like, I don't know, it's just
Speaker 1: so gross that all of these men just like really
Speaker 1: want to be with like inexperienced, like young girls when
Speaker 1: you can. I don't know, like is a twenty two
Speaker 1: year old not hot enough for you? I don't get it,
Speaker 1: like you had fifteen. I know. It's gross and it's
Speaker 1: about power, you know, yeah, like all of that stuff
Speaker 1: like these fucking yeahs, yeah, fucking freaks to be Like
Speaker 1: I'm twenty one and I can't get enough of Woody Allen.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know, go to therapy. And he
Speaker 1: was like pulling was kind of like claiming. I think
Speaker 1: when he around the time where he lost the cecil
Speaker 1: b de Mill like he was like, Weinstein's just throwing
Speaker 1: me under the bus so that my movie doesn't win
Speaker 1: an Oscar or something like that, and it's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess just pedophile on pedophile crime happening all the
Speaker 1: way was Winstein a pedophile or did he just like
Speaker 1: hurt grown women Weinstein. I think the people have been grown.
Speaker 1: But I have no idea what he's up to or
Speaker 1: if he's any I mean, I don't know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: anywhere anyway.
Speaker 2: Well, we have an incredible guest. One of the best
Speaker 2: days of my life.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, stay seated for the best guest ever.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is a prolific actor. To use the
Speaker 1: word mildly. You may know best for playing White House
Speaker 1: Deputy Chief of Staff Josh Lyman on The West. You
Speaker 1: may also know him as the Villainous Dad and Get
Speaker 1: Out and dozens of other projects, but you know him
Speaker 1: best today as filmmaker slash pedophile Frank Maddox. Please enjoy
Speaker 1: our chat with the legendary Bradley Whitford. We want to
Speaker 1: talk about both episodes that you did, but we'll start
Speaker 1: on reasonable doubt. Like when they sent you the script
Speaker 1: for this, were you like swim Woody Allen or what like?
Speaker 5: Were you just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, God.
Speaker 4: With the Roman Polanski twist at the end with it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was very very sleazy. I have had I
Speaker 5: guess the sleeze ball has been at different times in
Speaker 5: my career what you would call a wheelhouse for me.
Speaker 5: You know, I think when I met often I would
Speaker 5: meet people who would assume that there was something sort
Speaker 5: of Ted Bundy about me because of these sort of
Speaker 5: sort of characters that I play another thing, and that
Speaker 5: way we can get back to the incredible nuance that
Speaker 5: I put into being a pediasque. But that was the show.
Speaker 5: I would not know my wife if I hadn't done
Speaker 5: that episode because part of the reason it's true, I mean,
Speaker 5: it's what it's like one of the biggest butterfly effects
Speaker 5: moments of my life. Jeffrey Tamior was on the show,
Speaker 5: and I knew I had scenes with Jeffrey, and I
Speaker 5: met Jeffrey and while we were shooting the courtroom scene,
Speaker 5: Jeffrey came back from lunch and he's like, I don't
Speaker 5: even know what this is. It's some internet thing. They
Speaker 5: call it streaming. But I did, like, it wasn't even
Speaker 5: I guess it was a pilot and it got picked
Speaker 5: up and he came back from lunch and it was Transparent,
Speaker 5: and Jeffrey said to Joey Solaway, you should see this
Speaker 5: guy for this part that I did on Transparent, and
Speaker 5: that's how I met my wife. It was because I
Speaker 5: did that episode of SPU.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, so you met on set.
Speaker 5: So if you're lonely and you want to find the
Speaker 5: woman of your dreams, you need to play a pediast
Speaker 5: and pretend to be a homophobic cross dresser. Is the
Speaker 5: lesson for everybody out there?
Speaker 1: Well, and we could talk about get Out.
Speaker 2: I mean that I'm party iconic bad guy.
Speaker 5: That one of the best ever made like that was.
Speaker 5: I remember sitting right where I am right now reading
Speaker 5: this script and going into Amy was in the kitchen,
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh my god, the script is
Speaker 5: like complete. It is brilliant. I had no idea that
Speaker 5: it was going to work, and I thought it, especially
Speaker 5: with the part that I was playing. You know, you
Speaker 5: don't want to get wise cracking, racist wrong. You know,
Speaker 5: you don't know how what the tone is going to be.
Speaker 5: I remember when I read it, I assumed, uh. I
Speaker 5: was so obsessed with the Key and Peel and Jordan.
Speaker 5: I just thought was, I mean, if there's there's any
Speaker 5: bad thing about what happened with get Out, it's that
Speaker 5: we don't get to see Jordan act anymore. Because he
Speaker 5: was one of those comic actors. Was just absolutely brilliant,
Speaker 5: and I had assumed that I knew he was directing it,
Speaker 5: but it was a four million dollar movie. I don't know.
Speaker 5: I'm sure they don't tell you how much an SVU
Speaker 5: episode costs, but wagering it's less than half that I
Speaker 5: did get out was probably half what a SVU episode is.
Speaker 5: And we shot it in twenty days and I loved
Speaker 5: the script. I love the people I got to work with.
Speaker 5: We all wanted it to work for Jordan, but it
Speaker 5: was there was no you know, people are always like, oh,
Speaker 5: you must have known. I'm like, no, I like and
Speaker 5: I remember going to loop it and Jordan was there
Speaker 5: and I said can I see it? And he's like, no, no,
Speaker 5: I want you to. I want you to see it
Speaker 5: with an audience. And I'm like, how is it? And
Speaker 5: he's like and Jordan is the least arrogant person on
Speaker 5: the planet, and he's like, I think it's really really good.
Speaker 5: And I was like, well, I was kidding him. I
Speaker 5: was like, well you have to think that, because you know,
Speaker 5: your name's all over and everything, and he's like, no,
Speaker 5: I think it's really really good. And then Amy and
Speaker 5: I went at Sundance midnight screening, and I have never
Speaker 5: seen a suit fle rise like that. Wow.
Speaker 2: For me, it's one of my favorite movie going experiences
Speaker 2: I've ever had, for sure, Like because I went opening
Speaker 2: weekend and I remember and people were fucking pumped in
Speaker 2: so many surprises and so many twists, like such a
Speaker 2: good end.
Speaker 1: I mean that it was, well, do.
Speaker 5: You know, you know, I do you know about the
Speaker 5: ending of that movie. It's a really interesting thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've read that it was supposed to be sad,
Speaker 2: not good ending what we probably all as an audience
Speaker 2: thought was going to happen, and I'm glad that it wasn't.
Speaker 5: I don't know, Well, what's brilliant about it? You know?
Speaker 5: It ended with Lilrell's character visiting the character of Chris
Speaker 5: in prison.
Speaker 4: Oh I didn't know. I didn't know about this at all.
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know about this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it was, I mean, it was a brilliant
Speaker 5: He was basically going to him saying, you know, I
Speaker 5: know what happened, we can expose this, and Daniel's character
Speaker 5: going it's okay, we got him, And it was. It
Speaker 5: was a brilliant statement about like mass incarceration and It's
Speaker 5: a very interesting thing to me. The and I don't
Speaker 5: know the nuances. I don't think it was a testing issue,
Speaker 5: but it ended up changing to a moment, you know,
Speaker 5: when Chris is killing the white woman, you know, in
Speaker 5: the driveway and the police car drives, you see the
Speaker 5: red lights and the door opens and you see TSA. Now,
Speaker 5: I don't care what kind of you know, racist, you know, white, cracker,
Speaker 5: lunatic you are. You're going to laugh at that moment.
Speaker 5: And when you're laughing, you're acknowledging the truth that black
Speaker 5: people are not safe, you know, with around cops. If
Speaker 5: you say that, you're not going to get the message
Speaker 5: through to the racist people out there. And that was
Speaker 5: It's always a really interesting you know, because I've done
Speaker 5: a lot of I've ended up being in a lot
Speaker 5: of socially relevant stuff and so that's a really fascinating
Speaker 5: thing to me. And I think the other ending worked well.
Speaker 5: But there's something brilliant about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well he seems like a cool director. And in this
Speaker 1: episode of SVU, you're playing sort of this dickhead director, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're playing and I'm like, we got to find out,
Speaker 1: like what are you drawn from? Who? Are you drawn
Speaker 1: from here?
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Well, I have very complicated feelings about directors,
Speaker 5: and I'm more and more vehement about you know, I
Speaker 5: worry for young actors coming up. Navigating directors is tough.
Speaker 5: There's there's basically as one of two atmospheres on a set,
Speaker 5: or one of two atmospheres coming at you as an actor,
Speaker 5: and one is And it's interesting because I've done a
Speaker 5: lot of theater and I'm lucky enough to be able
Speaker 5: to do both. There's always a sense at a reading,
Speaker 5: the first read through of a play of hey, this
Speaker 5: might work as flawed as it may be, but there's
Speaker 5: a kind of optimism about the whole endeavor. Any filmed
Speaker 5: thing I've ever done, often the read through is ironically,
Speaker 5: especially if it's good, there's a fear to it, like
Speaker 5: I hope we don't fuck this up. And I think
Speaker 5: it has to do with just the exposure and the
Speaker 5: mon involved. So directors, and I've directed some, it's incredible pressure.
Speaker 5: That they're under incredible pressure, and the a less secure
Speaker 5: director allows their fear to impose, and the message coming
Speaker 5: to the actor is you don't fuck this up. You know,
Speaker 5: I'm afraid you're going to fuck this up. I know
Speaker 5: how you should do it, but as an actor you
Speaker 5: can get this sense of, oh, they you know, they
Speaker 5: don't trust you. The best directors and not just because
Speaker 5: I'm doing this podcast, but Marishko's is intuitively like this.
Speaker 5: But the namiest ones I've ever worked with, Spielberg or Jordan,
Speaker 5: they they create an atmosphere of it's it's it's not
Speaker 5: like school, it's like recess, and they are are and
Speaker 5: it's like good parenting. It's like, you know, it's like
Speaker 5: you owe your kids the possibility of surprising you. And
Speaker 5: good directors leave that space. A good director knows their
Speaker 5: self interest will be served, the story's interest will be served.
Speaker 5: If the actor doesn't think that the director knows how
Speaker 5: the actor should play the scene more than the actor knows.
Speaker 5: There there's a very subtle sort of kind of empowerment thing.
Speaker 5: And basically, and you have to navigate them all the time.
Speaker 5: And I understand the fear and the pressure, believe me
Speaker 5: that they're under, but often you have to. You have
Speaker 5: to navigate these you know, titanically insecure uh directors. And
Speaker 5: there's this it's a very weird, you know, hierarchy on
Speaker 5: a set I always laugh because it's filled with you know,
Speaker 5: people like me, you know, Pinko, lefty, fancy yourself a humanist.
Speaker 5: And then you get on a set and it's like
Speaker 5: a fifteenth century serfdom, you know, it's you know, it's like,
Speaker 5: I'm surprised there aren't like rickshaws. And if I'm in
Speaker 5: the middle of the take, it's totally fine. If I go,
Speaker 5: we got to cut and go where's the prop guy?
Speaker 5: You know, where's my watch? Where's my fucking watch? That's fine.
Speaker 5: If the prop guy goes it's in the fucking trailer
Speaker 5: where I put it for you to put on. He's gone,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So there's this and on
Speaker 5: a set, these directors are inevitably in a position of authority,
Speaker 5: and the best ones are secure enough to empower everybody
Speaker 5: on the set around them, including the actors. But for
Speaker 5: young actors coming up, it's you know, it's really scary,
Speaker 5: especially you know. Sbu is a classic example of there's
Speaker 5: nothing harder than a guest shot on an ongoing show.
Speaker 5: There's nothing more challenging because you're coming into a family
Speaker 5: that has been together and you can really tighten up,
Speaker 5: you know, because inevitably. I mean despite everything I'm saying,
Speaker 5: you know, I'm shooting the Diplomat now, and and like
Speaker 5: we've incredible guest actors on that, and like after the
Speaker 5: first take you're like, oh my god, I love that,
Speaker 5: you know, Carrie and I are like, how do they
Speaker 5: find these people? But it means that we're worried that
Speaker 5: they might not, you know what I mean. And that's, uh,
Speaker 5: that's a really hard thing for guest actors to navigate.
Speaker 5: On West Wing, where we would do these walking talks
Speaker 5: that were kind of a signature of the show, and
Speaker 5: you could tell that these guest actors were terrified.
Speaker 1: You made me terrified, Yeah, I got.
Speaker 5: And we even doing them like you know, yeah, the
Speaker 5: end of a walk uh, end of a walk and talk,
Speaker 5: you know, like a really long one where you're like,
Speaker 5: we just called f o G fear of greatness when
Speaker 5: you like fuck up, but you know at the end
Speaker 5: and you'd have to go back. And the thing with
Speaker 5: walking talks that you learn quickly is the first couple
Speaker 5: probably are not going to work unless it's unless it's
Speaker 5: a miracle. Now, if you're a guest actor on there,
Speaker 5: it's the the neurosis of being an actor is until
Speaker 5: something thing works, you don't know if it ever will. Right.
Speaker 5: So I learned on Westling if I was doing if
Speaker 5: I had a guest actor and a walk and talk,
Speaker 5: I would talk to our camera. I tell the camera guy,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna fuck. I'm gonna fuck up the first one.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna like, we'll just go like ten feet and
Speaker 5: I'll oh shit, I went up. Uh because that relaxes everybody.
Speaker 1: Uh Uh, that kind of calms Yeah, because the guest actors, like, well,
Speaker 1: if Bradley Whitford's sucking up a walk and talk, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm okay, I can figure it out. You know
Speaker 1: they won't wat.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And your and your fear is that
Speaker 5: you know, it's really being a guest actor landing in
Speaker 5: an alien world whatever it is, you know, Handmaid's SVU anything,
Speaker 5: and making yourself right at home with your blood flowing. Uh.
Speaker 5: You know they should have oscars for that.
Speaker 2: Now that it's on streaming, do you find like a
Speaker 2: different audience has found to the West Wing and find.
Speaker 5: Because when we yeah, when we you know, when we
Speaker 5: started that show, maybe there would be a rerun in
Speaker 5: the summer. And then if you ever wanted to see
Speaker 5: it again, you'd have to make an appointment at the
Speaker 5: Museum of Broadcasting. And while we're making it, suddenly they
Speaker 5: start putting out these VHS sets of it and then DVDs,
Speaker 5: and you know, now I think you know it's unfortunately, Uh,
Speaker 5: every wave of the erosion of democracy that we go through,
Speaker 5: more people sort of watch it. It's sort of like
Speaker 5: progressive music or progressive porn.
Speaker 4: Well you for the government, you know, fantasy.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's it's wild to all of us that
Speaker 5: it sort of continues. Uh, you know, you know, to
Speaker 5: have this life and uh, you know, can be an
Speaker 5: object of inspiration and sadness. Uh uh you know, I
Speaker 5: always joked that my career is basically tracking, you know,
Speaker 5: the death of democracy.
Speaker 2: Now I was just gonna ask, are there You've named
Speaker 2: so many cool people, but are there moments you remember
Speaker 2: being starstruck or a little extra nervous or.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well, I mean a thrill though She's just
Speaker 5: a delay in easy and uh, Meryl Streep was doing
Speaker 5: it like a take up close with her was uh
Speaker 5: and this is not me being a fan or starfucking
Speaker 5: or any thing. It was just watching her do this
Speaker 5: take you know, like this far away from her and
Speaker 5: totally out of character. In my head, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: she's playing like five pianos, like like is a whole
Speaker 5: different the whole different ballgame.
Speaker 1: And what that saying is that a saying did you
Speaker 1: just come up with that?
Speaker 5: I came up with it before when I in my head,
Speaker 5: when I was like, I've.
Speaker 4: A few things you said, do you really have some
Speaker 4: like nice schools?
Speaker 5: The I mean the other ship, Like there's some people
Speaker 5: who work with who who kind of change your idea
Speaker 5: about U about acting. I mean, I mean I Mark Rylance,
Speaker 5: I did a play with for a very long time,
Speaker 5: and that that kind of changed to where I thought
Speaker 5: about it. I mean a lot of it. The biggest
Speaker 5: privilege I have is that I've gotten a lot of
Speaker 5: at bats, like a lot of at bats, and I'm
Speaker 5: really grateful for that. And I needed them because I
Speaker 5: only partially mean this in a self deprecating way. But
Speaker 5: given enough chances, you know, even a chimp will type
Speaker 5: the dictionary. I mean, you do. You do learn the
Speaker 5: more you do it. And there's a lot of anxiety,
Speaker 5: blinding anxiety. Again, I still get in there. I don't
Speaker 5: know if it's seen is going to work until it
Speaker 5: works or and I don't know after I shot it
Speaker 5: if it works. There's a lot like there's a lot
Speaker 5: of you negotiating with yourself how you're going to deal
Speaker 5: with insecurity and fear and one fundamental way you do
Speaker 5: it that those two actors sort of flicked my gyroscope
Speaker 5: about was as a young actor, you're you're trying to
Speaker 5: narrow down you know, what the scene is, what the
Speaker 5: character is, You're trying to define it. And what I
Speaker 5: learned from those extraordinary actors and just in that moment
Speaker 5: with her, she was opening up the aperture she was,
Speaker 5: She wasn't narrowing it. And both of them were not
Speaker 5: executing performances, but their cut of magic Sauce was not
Speaker 5: playing a scene but getting played and that at that
Speaker 5: moment with her just kind of blew my mind. She
Speaker 5: would never think that moment was you know anything, But
Speaker 5: that's really interesting. Interesting to me the older I get
Speaker 5: of uh, you know, you got to deal with all
Speaker 5: this technical stuff. That's the funny thing too, is like
Speaker 5: everybody you know growing up looking at actors, you think
Speaker 5: that you know, film acting is like incredibly you know,
Speaker 5: organic and there's something a little more artificial about theater acting.
Speaker 5: You know, film acting is like doing the golf swing. Yeah, well,
Speaker 5: you know the method actors are more organic. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 5: but it's you know, you like you got to hit
Speaker 5: a mark, you gotta do this. You know, when you
Speaker 5: do a play, you're just like, you know, you don't
Speaker 5: have to gear up emotionally, it's just happening to you.
Speaker 5: But to see those those two people just sort of
Speaker 5: like get played, it was a different way of thinking
Speaker 5: about acting for me.
Speaker 4: What do you think your first credit.
Speaker 5: Is Dead is a doorman?
Speaker 2: There's the Doorman's eighty five, and then you did an
Speaker 2: equalizer one episode.
Speaker 5: Before before Dead is a dormance.
Speaker 1: Well there, I don't see Dead as a dormant. It
Speaker 1: just as dormant.
Speaker 5: Oh that was That was the original title that shortened.
Speaker 5: It was directed by Henny Youngman's son. Yeah. I did
Speaker 5: an anti smoking skit in sixth grade. You know how
Speaker 5: old I am. I really believe that I smoked a
Speaker 5: cigarette during the anti smoking. I love this very method,
Speaker 5: very method. Amy and I just had this little experience
Speaker 5: making her movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah for worse.
Speaker 5: That that is coming out. Have you seen it?
Speaker 1: I we've been helping to promo it to our listeners
Speaker 1: because it features not only Amy but podcast favorite Missy
Speaker 1: Pyle and now and Now podcast favorite Bradley Whitford. So
Speaker 1: we will be continuing to push it. Butway, I have
Speaker 1: not seen it yet, but there's more sview people. Paul
Speaker 1: Edelstein's in a couple.
Speaker 5: Of Yeah, Paul Edelstein's in it. Yeah, it. But here's
Speaker 5: the thing that you know, at one point, you know,
Speaker 5: we had producers. I don't know how much he told you, like,
Speaker 5: you know, we had I think like four million, you
Speaker 5: know that, you know, to make an independent movie, which
Speaker 5: is a lot, and you know for the totally independent
Speaker 5: movie we were gonna make, and then I forget what
Speaker 5: happened to COVID happened. Then the strike happened, and then
Speaker 5: at one point they were gonna do it for two million,
Speaker 5: which is really cutting it close. And then they said
Speaker 5: they couldn't do it, and we went back to them
Speaker 5: and said, can you do it for a million? And
Speaker 5: they were like no. They hired like a line producer
Speaker 5: who said you cannot make this for a million, and
Speaker 5: we made it for less than five hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 5: and you'll see it's you know, Amy, in the same
Speaker 5: way that Jordan. One of the problems with storytelling in
Speaker 5: Hollywood is the high percentage of it is a bunch
Speaker 5: of people walking around telling it joke that they don't
Speaker 5: personally think is funny. They're just trying to sell it.
Speaker 5: And you can smell that, like from a mile away.
Speaker 5: Jordan has no condescension about the horror genre. Loves it,
Speaker 5: loves every second of it, loves the mechanisms of it,
Speaker 5: is fascinated by it. That's why that movie worked. Amy
Speaker 5: loves rom coms. She loves playing around, you know, with
Speaker 5: that puzzle. And I'm telling you less than five hundred
Speaker 5: thousand dollars and we shot it in eleven days.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this trailer and it looks so good.
Speaker 5: All these actors showed up, all these people showed up,
Speaker 5: and you don't it truly made me. You know, we
Speaker 5: didn't have playback, and Amy's in every frame, and it
Speaker 5: just made me weep because like it's her voice, it's
Speaker 5: you know, it's it's funny, uh and it's true, you
Speaker 5: know it's and that's the stuff that all the people
Speaker 5: running around, you know, kind of kind in Hollywood tend
Speaker 5: to forget passion.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see it. I'm going I want to see
Speaker 1: it when it's in La. I'm excited. We should let
Speaker 1: you go. But do you have any other last like
Speaker 1: little funny stories from the set. Did you and Iced
Speaker 1: Tea have a moment together?
Speaker 5: Uh? We cuddled, Uh you know, we napped together. I
Speaker 5: was told it was a requirement.
Speaker 4: Wearing my sweatshirt.
Speaker 5: Uh not. I wish I'd had stuff with I didn't
Speaker 5: have stuff with him in this. No, it was just
Speaker 5: like I was just excited for Burrishka. I remember, like,
Speaker 5: you know, the show shoots, the show shoots really fast,
Speaker 5: and you know you're doing all this sort of sad
Speaker 5: stuff all day. And it was just like really long day.
Speaker 5: And I realized that like I, uh, I think I
Speaker 5: took a nap at lunch, I hadn't eaten anything. And
Speaker 5: I was in my little at one point, I'm in
Speaker 5: like hospital, uh you know, humiliation gown. Uh. And I
Speaker 5: remember realizing like, oh, I haven't eaten anything, and there
Speaker 5: were and there was soup and I got into line
Speaker 5: with the with the crew at Craft Services, and I
Speaker 5: was I was really sleepy, but and I realized that.
Speaker 5: I like, I hadn't eaten and I got up there
Speaker 5: for the soup with the craft services guy was like, uh,
Speaker 5: no background, no background. I was like, no, I'm I'm
Speaker 5: I'm a guest actor. Uh.
Speaker 4: He didn't want to give you the soup.
Speaker 5: He didn't want to give me this. I'm like, please
Speaker 5: just give me the fucking suit.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just thinking, I bet that West Wing's
Speaker 2: schedule was wild.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that it was insane crazy. I've said this, I've
Speaker 5: said this, it was crazy, and I don't know what
Speaker 5: was going on back then. I think they didn't want
Speaker 5: to admit how long, how many episodes. They didn't want
Speaker 5: to break the eight days, the pretense that you could
Speaker 5: make that show in eight days, right, the level of
Speaker 5: first of all, what Aaron did on that show. I
Speaker 5: wrote two episodes a year apart. I thought my brain
Speaker 5: was going to fucking break. He wrote twenty two for
Speaker 5: four years. That is the equivalent. You know, The Sopranos
Speaker 5: is as good as any mob movie. The West Wing,
Speaker 5: I would I don't think it's arrogant to say was
Speaker 5: attempting to be as good as any political movie. So
Speaker 5: you're making the equivalent of eleven feature films in nine months,
Speaker 5: and they would pretend that they could do it in
Speaker 5: eight days because they if they broke that rule, other
Speaker 5: shows would want more time as well. So a short
Speaker 5: day for us was fifteen hours, and it was far
Speaker 5: more brutal for the crew and people. If you're doing
Speaker 5: a feature, it's a sprint and you can do six weeks,
Speaker 5: you know, if you're doing a series. And again, especially
Speaker 5: for the crew, people started to like go nuts, and
Speaker 5: I mean eventually, you know, it was like I remember
Speaker 5: braying at somebody, like, you know, the invisible carnage of
Speaker 5: the unfucked wives and the children not being read to
Speaker 5: is just like wafting out into the future. And that's
Speaker 5: a good name for a band.
Speaker 1: By the way, the invisible Carnage of the Unfucked Wives
Speaker 1: even more hard.
Speaker 5: That's that's their first album. That was their day. Yeah,
Speaker 5: but yeah, I know, I know it was insane.
Speaker 1: I just saw Janelle and uh, she's done an sv
Speaker 1: Janelle Maloney from She's on an SVU. She's the doctor
Speaker 1: we were trying to get for that episode.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I had agreed, I was, she lives in
Speaker 5: Brooklyn and we haven't you know, and Allison and I
Speaker 5: talk about this. I mean we it was brutal, but
Speaker 5: we are all. Even Richard Schiff is grateful. I mean,
Speaker 5: which is a miracle, uh for him to experience that emotion. Uh,
Speaker 5: but you know, it was such a crushing level of
Speaker 5: it was familial. You know, you were you will be
Speaker 5: revealed in your good days, your bad days, you're tired,
Speaker 5: you know, you're happy. Uh, it was. It was a
Speaker 5: very intense thing. And now only on a show like
Speaker 5: s for you do you get that, uh you know
Speaker 5: in like intensity. You know, on Handmaids you do, you know,
Speaker 5: or Diplomat you do eight or ten every couple of years,
Speaker 5: which is saner and the wives get fucked. But uh
Speaker 5: but it's a different different kinds.
Speaker 1: First, you know, I miss I miss some of these
Speaker 1: twenty two episodes.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah no, And like I think the
Speaker 5: pit is kind of a sweet spot. What are they fifteen?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do fifteen the pet It's good, yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's the full shift. Your episode of your this episode
Speaker 1: where you're the Woody Allen type is the the episode
Speaker 1: right after it is another West Wing Josh Molina, It's
Speaker 1: episode thought criminal lawyer. He his episode is creepy. He's
Speaker 1: a guy who builds a.
Speaker 5: F Are you aware of my thing with John?
Speaker 1: Oh? We need to cut this, we could do off No, no, I.
Speaker 5: Want it on the record. Josh is uh the very
Speaker 5: I met Aaron Sorkin because I was in a Few
Speaker 5: Good Men on Broadway and my first night on a
Speaker 5: Broadway stage, which is in an Aaron Sorkin piece, It's
Speaker 5: like jumping on a moving train. It's terrifying, terrifying, and uh,
Speaker 5: I get halfway through and then there's a big trial.
Speaker 5: Initially I was playing the Kevin Bacon part then, and
Speaker 5: I was understudying the lead, and then I took over
Speaker 5: the lead, which is why I got west Way. Basically,
Speaker 5: Aaron gave me like a big break. But I'm going
Speaker 5: into a Broadway play. I am. You're basically watching the
Speaker 5: play and rehearsing with a stage manager, and then you
Speaker 5: do one put in and then you're on and it's terrifying.
Speaker 5: And I'm halfway through and I have the big court
Speaker 5: scene and I come down and we're facing the audience
Speaker 5: and I open up my briefcase and it is plastered
Speaker 5: with pornography that haunts me to this day that Josh
Speaker 5: Molina put in there my first night. And it turns
Speaker 5: out that Josh is a how do I put it,
Speaker 5: malignant practical joker, like dangerous, not funny. And Josh he
Speaker 5: almost got fired because he put itching powder in one
Speaker 5: of the marines costumes, which is technically actually kind of
Speaker 5: a poison. So you have a marine up on a thing,
Speaker 5: like you know, like like going like this.
Speaker 1: Josh is a little porn in the briefcase, I can
Speaker 1: get behind, but you can't give people like a rash.
Speaker 5: Josh one director west Wing would destroy directors. They would
Speaker 5: come in cocky, you know, and like, you know, maybe
Speaker 5: I'll get nominated for an Emmy and you would find
Speaker 5: them weeping behind flats. And Friday night you shoot until
Speaker 5: like you know, two three in the morning, and this
Speaker 5: poor guy is like staggering out the door and Warner
Speaker 5: Brothers and just wants to go home and sleep for
Speaker 5: a short weekend. Josh has gotten the guy's keys from
Speaker 5: Transpo and put a bunch of stuff from the set
Speaker 5: like Teddy Roosevelt's snowbel prize in some computers in the
Speaker 5: back of the guy's car and calls security when we
Speaker 5: wrap at three in the morning. And basically, long story,
Speaker 5: short the directors, basically getting arrested by the Burbank police
Speaker 5: for stealing stuff. That's his idea of a hahaha.
Speaker 1: How did everyone get out of it?
Speaker 5: So he did something to me which is too long,
Speaker 5: too long to go into. So I I had to
Speaker 5: I have made the mistake of engaging in this with him,
Speaker 5: and I got him. I got hold of the memoriam
Speaker 5: editor for the SAG Awards to get him cut into
Speaker 5: the memory will and I had a check written for
Speaker 5: several thousand dollars and the guy chickened out, which is
Speaker 5: lucky because it would have been the greatest thing ever,
Speaker 5: but horribly disrespectful to the people who died that year.
Speaker 5: But he would have been declared dead to all of
Speaker 5: show business. And when I got to write The West Wings,
Speaker 5: the second one, all I knew was I wanted to
Speaker 5: get to a moment where Josh had to humiliate himself
Speaker 5: on national television. So this was after John Spencer died.
Speaker 5: And I keep it on my phone because it's I'm
Speaker 5: more proud of it than uh anything I've ever done creatively.
Speaker 5: The Allison is now the Press Secretary, Josh is the
Speaker 5: Press Secretary. Alison is now the chief of staff, and
Speaker 5: Alison brings Josh into the office and says, the president's
Speaker 5: son in law is having an affair and uh, he
Speaker 5: says why he's like he was running for Congress and
Speaker 5: and and Josh is playing the press secretary. And he goes,
Speaker 5: why didn't you tell me that? And she she's because
Speaker 5: you're the press secretary. You have to you have to
Speaker 5: deal with the deal with the press, and he and
Speaker 5: he goes, uh, uh, yeah, exactly, I deal with the press.
Speaker 5: I should be the least informed person in the room.
Speaker 5: You taught me that. And she goes, suck it up,
Speaker 5: and he goes, I can't act. I am a terrible actor.
Speaker 5: I don't like to pretend. And I got it into
Speaker 5: an episode and I keep it on my phone to
Speaker 5: want me to play it for you. I do my
Speaker 5: bensport when I'm the least informed person in the room.
Speaker 5: You taught me that.
Speaker 1: Suck it up.
Speaker 5: I can't act.
Speaker 1: You were up to protect during the podcast. The truth
Speaker 1: of it is, I love Josh oh Good. At first,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, have I brought up some deep
Speaker 1: seated West wing feud that I didn't know about.
Speaker 4: Thank you for giving us so much time and so
Speaker 4: many great.
Speaker 5: Really funny. Tell everybody to go see Tell everybody to
Speaker 5: go see.
Speaker 4: For worse or worse. Thank you so much, Bradley. This
Speaker 4: was awesome. This was one of the best moments of
Speaker 4: my life.
Speaker 1: I would say, I mean, I think we talked to
Speaker 1: him for was that was that like our longest interview.
Speaker 1: I think we talked to him for like an hour
Speaker 1: and a half.
Speaker 2: I just truly feel like I really laughed for my innercore.
Speaker 2: And oh, I'm trying to find the quotes. I really
Speaker 2: liked his quotes. I was talking about getting the crew's
Speaker 2: like wives fucked.
Speaker 1: For weeks, like after we talked to him, Wait what
Speaker 1: when he was like, we need to get the crew
Speaker 1: home to fuck their wives.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, it's like the best.
Speaker 1: And I like that.
Speaker 2: He said like set should feel like recess, not like school.
Speaker 2: That it's like, yeah, like practice of submission is what
Speaker 2: acting is.
Speaker 1: Like.
Speaker 2: He's just fun, but I think he takes his work seriously,
Speaker 2: but he doesn't take himself seriously or like the business
Speaker 2: in that way and still is feels really like excited
Speaker 2: to work and likes all these people he's met.
Speaker 4: I'm just I'm in I was like very taken.
Speaker 1: By yes, I love him. I love his work. Who's
Speaker 1: the guy in Chicago that I love him? And Amy?
Speaker 1: Dennis Weber? You're out? What was the guy's name that
Speaker 1: I loved from we loved him so much? We don't
Speaker 1: know his name? Steve Weber? See it was years ago.
Speaker 2: Come on, I know, I remember when we interviewed him
Speaker 2: because we were in the Carolinas and we were in
Speaker 2: a weird hotel, so like we were at a hotel.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Steve Weber's out. Bradley Whitford in I mean
Speaker 1: of my heart. Yeah, but I love him so much.
Speaker 1: I love his relationship with Amy Landaker. I love them
Speaker 1: finding love after love. You know, there's also something so
Speaker 1: comforting about him to me. Like I said, I did
Speaker 1: quit The Handmaid's Tale after like two or three seasons
Speaker 1: because it got too real and then I started having kids.
Speaker 1: But his character just being kind of one of the
Speaker 1: like good guys, was like, he's comforting to me in
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 4: Also because I got to watch West Wing.
Speaker 1: I never was a West Winger, but like I had
Speaker 1: a friend come over recently who's like, oh, I watched
Speaker 1: the West Wing like once a year, and I was like,
Speaker 1: we just interviewed Bradley on our podcast, and she was like, what,
Speaker 1: like people are obsessed, like they.
Speaker 2: I want to watch West Wing. I pulled it up
Speaker 2: on a tab, but I still haven't watched any TV
Speaker 2: shows since. But I haven't watched it a Rivalry either.
Speaker 2: I've put myself on like buz, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, get into drag Race. I'm liking this season.
Speaker 1: I like, I will.
Speaker 4: I just truly am like reading or doing my Russian homework.
Speaker 1: Or like ow. I mean, I'm not sitting here trying
Speaker 1: to beg you to get on a twelve hour show binge.
Speaker 1: I don't want that. I like what you're doing. I
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: It's been fine. I have been getting blacked out. That
Speaker 2: is a reality as well. But I you know, it's fine.
Speaker 2: You live in New York, you're young, you're having fun.
Speaker 2: Come on, I'm giving you permission anyway, so reasonable doubt.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll talk every one. Everyone's a molester, everyone
Speaker 1: is a I mean. The sad part to me is that, Like,
Speaker 1: the sad part to me is that like Roman Polanski's victim,
Speaker 1: just like felt I think so, I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to speak for her, but like that you
Speaker 1: would go after the person, toe the person get some
Speaker 1: bit of justice, and then publicly be like it was
Speaker 1: always it's fine. It's like even if that is how
Speaker 1: you feel, because I'm not going to tell anybody how
Speaker 1: to feel. Like, why are we sending that message that
Speaker 1: it is okay for a man to have sex with
Speaker 1: a thirteen year old while they're on kailud.
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't know, like that's not that's we.
Speaker 2: Even with the Michael Jackson where it's like they were
Speaker 2: just napping and it's like, okay, but why are they napping?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like what are you talking?
Speaker 1: I think we just need to say that going forward,
Speaker 1: this isn't okay. So I think it's okay for her
Speaker 1: to come out and say I'm through this, like I've
Speaker 1: moved on, like but not to be like it was
Speaker 1: never a problem is so strange. But also, who knows
Speaker 1: what being under media scrutiny since you were thirteen for
Speaker 1: this one specific extremely famous case has done to your
Speaker 1: youth psychologically.
Speaker 4: But this episode, I don't know, there's just.
Speaker 2: Really okay things in such a week. It's so weird
Speaker 2: what people don't want to deal it. I don't know
Speaker 2: it's it's really strange, like I would never be friends
Speaker 2: with someone that married their daughter in any capacity, like
Speaker 2: not a step, not a twice removed, not like a
Speaker 2: fake situation where it's like just your friend's kid, like
Speaker 2: I yeah, even though it's just like I don't understand
Speaker 2: the leniency with which people I don't know bring people
Speaker 2: into their lives. Yeah, yeah, to make a movie.
Speaker 4: I mean, people are hungry for fame, you know, but
Speaker 4: don't I know it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, let's let's get onto what would sister Peg do?
Speaker 2: This week, Chris Fleming was on Caleb's podcast and he
Speaker 2: was talking.
Speaker 4: He's like, of course I want to be mega famous.
Speaker 2: He's like, I am pissed that I'm not, and Caleb's like, no,
Speaker 2: you're like too weird, Like no way, he goes, No,
Speaker 2: I want to be Regis filming.
Speaker 1: That's my icon. And I know he's being so sincere,
Speaker 1: but like, and I get it.
Speaker 2: To have a Day Times show for decades on air
Speaker 2: is like incredible, but like, yeah, I guess, yeah, reaches
Speaker 2: I used to I like Barbara Walters, Like I get it,
Speaker 2: but it's just.
Speaker 1: Like it tickled me. It tickled me, And he had
Speaker 1: a great analysis of feter rivalry Chris Fleming. Catch him
Speaker 1: on Caleb's podcast. He's so fucking funny and get his
Speaker 1: watch a special.
Speaker 4: I haven't watched him watch I love him.
Speaker 1: I just do that.
Speaker 2: But I get kind of jealous because I feel like
Speaker 2: Caleb and I really connect on his pot and I
Speaker 2: don't like the way he laughs with Chris Fleming.
Speaker 1: Ah, but he laughs with so many people. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I know that.
Speaker 2: I know mine is different, but when I see it
Speaker 2: with Chris, I get pissed.
Speaker 1: But that's how I feel.
Speaker 2: When I sit at my coffee shop, when I see
Speaker 2: them being nice to other regulars, I'm like, who the
Speaker 2: fuck is that?
Speaker 1: Excuse me, excuse me?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Get out of here. I like, take your macha, take
Speaker 1: your macha and move on. You're talking to my friends.
Speaker 1: They would never serve much at my coffee shop. They
Speaker 1: don't have DJs, well latte. You know, I don't even
Speaker 1: drink coffee. I'm throwing the terms out like I don't
Speaker 1: even know what I'm talking about. Okay, So throwing the
Speaker 1: terms I don't know, like flat white, like I don't
Speaker 1: even know what things are. Okay. So let's get into
Speaker 1: what would sister peg do our weekly segment where we
Speaker 1: direct you guys to an organization a blog post.
Speaker 4: I always say, blog post, it's so stupid.
Speaker 1: We barely ever do a blog post, an article, a documentary,
Speaker 1: something to give you more info about the case we covered,
Speaker 1: or the you know, the topics we touched on. And
Speaker 1: this week we wanted to point you towards the Hollywood
Speaker 1: Reporter article from ten years ago that Ronan Pharaoh wrote
Speaker 1: about his dad, called my father, Woody Allan and the
Speaker 1: danger of questions unasked. This is one of the early
Speaker 1: articles that put Ronan Pharaoh on the map. You guys
Speaker 1: all know I talked about this awesome Ronan Pharaoh piece
Speaker 1: that I read last year. This article is really critical
Speaker 1: of the media and the way it handled Woody Allen
Speaker 1: and other well known sexual predators. And we all know
Speaker 1: this is pre Harvey Weinstein, me too. We all know
Speaker 1: Ronan Pharaoh was very instrumental in bringing that entire movement
Speaker 1: to light. And there are a lot of lessons in
Speaker 1: this article that the media could still so to read it,
Speaker 1: head over to the Hollywood Reporter and we will have
Speaker 1: that linked in our show notes and in a story
Speaker 1: that we post in our stories on Instagram at That's
Speaker 1: Messed Up Pod that come out to day this episode airs,
Speaker 1: and we always save those in our WWSPD highlight on
Speaker 1: our Instagram page, So get on over there if you
Speaker 1: ever want to say, what was that organization that they mentioned?
Speaker 4: It's there and that's that, and that is that.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be doing Great Expectations Season eighteen,
Speaker 2: episode eleven.
Speaker 4: Bye, everybody, see you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers,
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media.
Speaker 5: Dun Dun,