1 00:00:15,276 --> 00:00:24,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Our last episode was about an explosion, an explosion 2 00:00:24,076 --> 00:00:27,876 Speaker 1: of coaching in modern life. All sorts of people are 3 00:00:27,876 --> 00:00:30,916 Speaker 1: getting paid to be coaches in places that never used 4 00:00:30,956 --> 00:00:38,036 Speaker 1: to have coaches, big corporations, wall street, trading floors, fire stations. 5 00:00:38,756 --> 00:00:41,876 Speaker 1: People are declaring themselves coaches not just of skills, but 6 00:00:41,996 --> 00:00:44,796 Speaker 1: of states of mind and getting paid to do it. 7 00:00:46,716 --> 00:00:49,596 Speaker 1: So it's now more noticeable when you come across situations 8 00:00:49,596 --> 00:00:52,436 Speaker 1: that cry out for a coach and no coaches around, 9 00:00:52,836 --> 00:00:55,996 Speaker 1: when total amateurs who don't think of themselves as coaches 10 00:00:56,036 --> 00:00:59,196 Speaker 1: are forced to coach for free because no one's doing 11 00:00:59,196 --> 00:01:07,596 Speaker 1: it for money. Like this woman. I am Marsaparadan, author 12 00:01:07,756 --> 00:01:12,916 Speaker 1: of several books and articles on banking and inequality, racial 13 00:01:12,956 --> 00:01:16,756 Speaker 1: wealth gap, etc. Marissa came to the United States from 14 00:01:16,756 --> 00:01:21,196 Speaker 1: Iran as a child. Her family were political refugees. She's 15 00:01:21,236 --> 00:01:23,636 Speaker 1: now a professor at the UC Irvine Law School. But 16 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:26,916 Speaker 1: it's not her job that matters here. Mariss's brother in 17 00:01:26,996 --> 00:01:29,556 Speaker 1: law is the sheriff of a small town east of 18 00:01:29,596 --> 00:01:32,596 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. He called her one day to say he 19 00:01:32,636 --> 00:01:35,476 Speaker 1: had taken in a high school student. She was his 20 00:01:35,556 --> 00:01:40,116 Speaker 1: son's classmate and track teammate, and she was homeless. Her 21 00:01:40,196 --> 00:01:42,916 Speaker 1: name is Kayla. Kayla kept getting kicked out of her 22 00:01:42,956 --> 00:01:47,156 Speaker 1: home like on and off and finally permanently last year, 23 00:01:47,316 --> 00:01:51,676 Speaker 1: and so their son told his parents and they just said, 24 00:01:51,756 --> 00:01:55,996 Speaker 1: come live with us. Right, Marissa found Kayla totally striking, 25 00:01:56,556 --> 00:02:00,916 Speaker 1: six feet tall, self possessed. But she's a seventeen year 26 00:02:00,916 --> 00:02:04,636 Speaker 1: old African American girl in a poor white town, not 27 00:02:04,676 --> 00:02:08,636 Speaker 1: just homeless, but working two jobs, just trying to figure 28 00:02:08,676 --> 00:02:12,236 Speaker 1: out how to survive. I don't know exact date, but 29 00:02:12,476 --> 00:02:15,396 Speaker 1: I think maybe around September. My mother kicked me out 30 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:19,316 Speaker 1: of the house. It was something that it happened before, 31 00:02:19,396 --> 00:02:22,276 Speaker 1: but this time it was a permanent one. So I 32 00:02:22,436 --> 00:02:26,596 Speaker 1: just tried to be prepared. But I mean, there's not 33 00:02:27,076 --> 00:02:30,116 Speaker 1: what you can be prepared for when that happens. Why 34 00:02:30,116 --> 00:02:31,796 Speaker 1: did she say she cooked you out of the house 35 00:02:32,156 --> 00:02:37,076 Speaker 1: this recent time. I think it was just maybe I 36 00:02:37,076 --> 00:02:40,476 Speaker 1: feel like a lack of appreciation. Maybe she didn't think 37 00:02:40,516 --> 00:02:43,436 Speaker 1: I appreciated what she's done for me, because I think 38 00:02:43,476 --> 00:02:47,276 Speaker 1: she felt that I was only there to finish my 39 00:02:47,396 --> 00:02:53,556 Speaker 1: education and that I was using everything she gave me 40 00:02:53,796 --> 00:02:58,876 Speaker 1: just to go to school. So yeah, I think that's 41 00:02:58,916 --> 00:03:01,996 Speaker 1: probably the main reason why she kicked me out. Are 42 00:03:02,036 --> 00:03:05,196 Speaker 1: you still in touch with her? No, I don't talk 43 00:03:05,196 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 1: to you at all. Okay, So I asked Kayla a 44 00:03:10,796 --> 00:03:14,196 Speaker 1: bunch of questions, but her new friend, Marisa had asked 45 00:03:14,196 --> 00:03:17,516 Speaker 1: her more. She learned that Kayla was a star long 46 00:03:17,596 --> 00:03:21,756 Speaker 1: distance runner, a great student too, who'd somehow maintained a 47 00:03:21,756 --> 00:03:24,876 Speaker 1: great point average of four point zero. Klea had managed 48 00:03:24,916 --> 00:03:27,356 Speaker 1: to take the SAT too. She just walked into an 49 00:03:27,396 --> 00:03:30,636 Speaker 1: SAT center and taking it cold without any idea of 50 00:03:30,676 --> 00:03:33,476 Speaker 1: what it was. She got a score of twelve sixty, 51 00:03:33,956 --> 00:03:35,796 Speaker 1: which was better than eighty three percent of the other 52 00:03:35,796 --> 00:03:38,956 Speaker 1: people who took it. Marissa could see how badly Kayla 53 00:03:39,036 --> 00:03:41,396 Speaker 1: wanted to go to college, and she knew from her 54 00:03:41,396 --> 00:03:43,596 Speaker 1: brother in law that college was not the obvious next 55 00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:46,396 Speaker 1: step for kids from kayla school. I mean, this is 56 00:03:46,436 --> 00:03:47,636 Speaker 1: a high school, and I went to one of these 57 00:03:47,716 --> 00:03:50,636 Speaker 1: high schools where the only recruiters that come to campus 58 00:03:50,636 --> 00:03:54,276 Speaker 1: are like military and community college. If that so, most 59 00:03:54,316 --> 00:03:57,596 Speaker 1: of these kids are not four year college bat. When 60 00:03:57,676 --> 00:04:01,996 Speaker 1: she first tells you what she's doing to apply to college, 61 00:04:02,156 --> 00:04:03,356 Speaker 1: the first time you sit down and talk to her 62 00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:06,436 Speaker 1: about it, what does she say and what is your response? 63 00:04:07,276 --> 00:04:09,596 Speaker 1: She says I said, well, what colleges are applying to? 64 00:04:09,756 --> 00:04:12,916 Speaker 1: And she says, well, I applied to a couple of 65 00:04:13,076 --> 00:04:15,596 Speaker 1: like UC schools. I think she'd applied to like three 66 00:04:15,596 --> 00:04:19,436 Speaker 1: schools at the time. She'd actually applied to four schools 67 00:04:19,436 --> 00:04:22,356 Speaker 1: state schools, because you could do that for free, never 68 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:26,116 Speaker 1: mind the eventual tuition. Kayla couldn't afford the application fees. 69 00:04:26,316 --> 00:04:27,836 Speaker 1: So I just asked Kayla, I'm like, hey, do you 70 00:04:27,876 --> 00:04:31,196 Speaker 1: mind if I look, I'll pay for the application costs 71 00:04:31,196 --> 00:04:32,956 Speaker 1: and we'll just do it together. Would you be into that? 72 00:04:32,996 --> 00:04:35,436 Speaker 1: And she was super into it, right, so she was 73 00:04:35,476 --> 00:04:38,836 Speaker 1: like absolutely, I want to do this anyway. That's how 74 00:04:38,916 --> 00:04:42,716 Speaker 1: Marissa remembers it. Kayla recalls hesitating before she said yes. 75 00:04:42,996 --> 00:04:45,476 Speaker 1: She's like, what colleges you applying for? You're only applying 76 00:04:45,476 --> 00:04:47,156 Speaker 1: to four? Well, you need to apply to more. And 77 00:04:47,236 --> 00:04:49,036 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I can't pay for this, and 78 00:04:49,116 --> 00:04:51,036 Speaker 1: she was like, well, you don't have to worry about it. 79 00:04:51,076 --> 00:04:52,916 Speaker 1: I got it. I got it covered. And at first 80 00:04:52,956 --> 00:04:55,276 Speaker 1: I was really like, I'm not the type of person 81 00:04:55,316 --> 00:04:58,596 Speaker 1: that accepts money from other people. It was the first 82 00:04:58,636 --> 00:05:01,316 Speaker 1: time that anyone had offered to help her, and the 83 00:05:01,396 --> 00:05:04,076 Speaker 1: situation was as new to Kayla as it was to Marisa, 84 00:05:04,276 --> 00:05:06,556 Speaker 1: you know, you could tell that she's hungry for the 85 00:05:06,596 --> 00:05:09,996 Speaker 1: coaching and she wanted it, and so I could just 86 00:05:10,076 --> 00:05:12,516 Speaker 1: see that. And you know, I don't have a lot 87 00:05:12,516 --> 00:05:14,356 Speaker 1: of time either, right, Like I have a full time 88 00:05:14,436 --> 00:05:16,796 Speaker 1: job and kids and all the other stuff. But when 89 00:05:16,876 --> 00:05:19,516 Speaker 1: you see someone like that, You're like, Okay, whatever it takes, 90 00:05:19,516 --> 00:05:21,756 Speaker 1: I'm going to help you with this, because who else 91 00:05:21,876 --> 00:05:25,076 Speaker 1: is going to exactly right, who else is going to 92 00:05:25,756 --> 00:05:28,236 Speaker 1: Kayla Saster's the kind of kid every elite school in 93 00:05:28,236 --> 00:05:31,316 Speaker 1: the country claims to be looking for. Marisa had the 94 00:05:31,356 --> 00:05:34,916 Speaker 1: same thought. She also thought, oh no, I'm too late. 95 00:05:39,236 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Lewis, and this is against the rules. A 96 00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:47,556 Speaker 1: show about various authority figures in American life. This season 97 00:05:47,676 --> 00:05:51,556 Speaker 1: is about the rise of coaches, and this episode is 98 00:05:51,596 --> 00:05:54,836 Speaker 1: about a place in American life where there should be coaches. 99 00:06:02,196 --> 00:06:06,556 Speaker 1: Columbia asks what exhibits, lectures, theater productions, and concerts have 100 00:06:06,636 --> 00:06:09,036 Speaker 1: you liked best in the last year. I'm tempted to 101 00:06:09,276 --> 00:06:12,316 Speaker 1: write Carmen at the Metropolitan Opera. Psych My town doesn't 102 00:06:12,316 --> 00:06:16,196 Speaker 1: even have a movie theater. Kayla Sassar's deadline for college 103 00:06:16,196 --> 00:06:19,516 Speaker 1: applications was less than a month away. There wasn't time 104 00:06:19,556 --> 00:06:22,196 Speaker 1: to hire an essat coach and retake the test or 105 00:06:22,196 --> 00:06:25,796 Speaker 1: anything like that. So her new friend Marissa just starts 106 00:06:25,796 --> 00:06:29,436 Speaker 1: grabbing applications to elite schools off the web. Now she 107 00:06:29,516 --> 00:06:31,476 Speaker 1: and Kayla have to figure out how to decode what 108 00:06:31,596 --> 00:06:34,396 Speaker 1: they're really asking the kids who apply. I ask her 109 00:06:34,516 --> 00:06:38,836 Speaker 1: what kids do for entertainment, and she says drugs. Another 110 00:06:38,836 --> 00:06:42,476 Speaker 1: school asks her what her favorite periodicals, newspapers, and websites are. 111 00:06:42,596 --> 00:06:45,196 Speaker 1: She doesn't have access to a computer except when she 112 00:06:45,236 --> 00:06:47,636 Speaker 1: does homework on a school computer. She doesn't get the 113 00:06:47,636 --> 00:06:50,876 Speaker 1: New Yorker. She's never traveled outside her town. It just 114 00:06:50,916 --> 00:06:53,276 Speaker 1: seems like anyone who can answer these questions has got 115 00:06:53,316 --> 00:06:57,116 Speaker 1: to be coached. Kayla obviously needs a coach, and Marissa, 116 00:06:57,236 --> 00:06:59,716 Speaker 1: just by chance and temperament, is the right person to 117 00:06:59,796 --> 00:07:03,836 Speaker 1: coach her. But right away she's seeing the bigger issue. 118 00:07:03,956 --> 00:07:05,756 Speaker 1: And then I'm looking at these questions and I'm like, 119 00:07:06,356 --> 00:07:09,516 Speaker 1: you clearly don't get it right. You don't underst stand 120 00:07:09,916 --> 00:07:12,316 Speaker 1: what it's like to grow up in a rural town 121 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:16,596 Speaker 1: and not have resources like you know, elite Americans do. 122 00:07:17,516 --> 00:07:20,116 Speaker 1: So she helps Kayla with the application questions, is best 123 00:07:20,116 --> 00:07:22,956 Speaker 1: she can. Then they get to the big one, the 124 00:07:23,076 --> 00:07:26,796 Speaker 1: personal essay, the place where you let all these college 125 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:30,356 Speaker 1: admissions officers know who you really are. Rich kids get 126 00:07:30,436 --> 00:07:33,556 Speaker 1: all kinds of help doing this. They write about their 127 00:07:33,636 --> 00:07:37,236 Speaker 1: week long service trip to some poor Guatemalan village as 128 00:07:37,276 --> 00:07:41,516 Speaker 1: a transformative experience in which they overcame something or other. 129 00:07:42,276 --> 00:07:45,916 Speaker 1: Marisa looks at an essay Kayla already wrote the one 130 00:07:45,956 --> 00:07:49,236 Speaker 1: for her University of California applications. So here she is. 131 00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:54,476 Speaker 1: She's African American, you know, homeless, works two jobs, and 132 00:07:54,596 --> 00:07:56,636 Speaker 1: I mean just every obstacle you want to put in 133 00:07:56,676 --> 00:08:01,036 Speaker 1: someone's path, she's had it. And her essays were on, 134 00:08:01,956 --> 00:08:05,316 Speaker 1: you know, like how she stopped bullies on the cross 135 00:08:05,356 --> 00:08:08,276 Speaker 1: country team, which my goodness, I mean, she's a hero. 136 00:08:08,836 --> 00:08:11,396 Speaker 1: But like there wasn't a lot in there where she 137 00:08:11,436 --> 00:08:15,876 Speaker 1: was explaining to them the circumstances that she's overcome. Kayla 138 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:19,116 Speaker 1: has like zero perspective on her own life. This doesn't 139 00:08:19,116 --> 00:08:23,276 Speaker 1: surprise Marisa. I'm a war refugee. I immigrated to America 140 00:08:23,316 --> 00:08:25,556 Speaker 1: when I was ten. My mom spent my entire childhood 141 00:08:25,596 --> 00:08:29,116 Speaker 1: in political prison. I saw, you know, bodies hanging in 142 00:08:29,196 --> 00:08:32,716 Speaker 1: Iran and I wrote my college application on you know 143 00:08:32,716 --> 00:08:37,956 Speaker 1: how Alice Walker's the color Purple changed my view of literature, right, 144 00:08:38,076 --> 00:08:40,596 Speaker 1: So there was nothing in my eighteen year old college 145 00:08:40,596 --> 00:08:44,876 Speaker 1: application about my background because I couldn't put it into 146 00:08:44,916 --> 00:08:47,836 Speaker 1: words at the time. And when you're eighteen or seventeen, 147 00:08:47,876 --> 00:08:49,556 Speaker 1: or at least when I was, and when Kayla is 148 00:08:49,916 --> 00:08:53,996 Speaker 1: where she's at, you don't want to put that front 149 00:08:54,036 --> 00:08:56,516 Speaker 1: and center. You don't want to be a victim. You 150 00:08:56,556 --> 00:09:00,156 Speaker 1: are a survivor. You're just like everyone else. You're normal 151 00:09:00,636 --> 00:09:04,476 Speaker 1: and you should be. It's not like Marisa wants Kayla 152 00:09:04,516 --> 00:09:07,636 Speaker 1: to relive her trauma for the benefit of college admissions officers, 153 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:10,596 Speaker 1: but she does her to get her situation across to 154 00:09:10,636 --> 00:09:13,876 Speaker 1: them because it matters. It matters that she overcame so 155 00:09:13,956 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 1: much just to get to this point. Applying to college, 156 00:09:17,356 --> 00:09:20,036 Speaker 1: she wanted to write an essay about international relations in Spanish, 157 00:09:20,156 --> 00:09:21,956 Speaker 1: like why you know she wants to do foreign languages 158 00:09:21,956 --> 00:09:23,796 Speaker 1: and that's her thing, And she wrote a lot about that, 159 00:09:23,836 --> 00:09:26,116 Speaker 1: and I said, why you know, tell me more about 160 00:09:26,196 --> 00:09:28,276 Speaker 1: what got you interest in Spanish. And it took like 161 00:09:28,356 --> 00:09:32,076 Speaker 1: maybe ten questions to get to. When she first got 162 00:09:32,156 --> 00:09:35,756 Speaker 1: kicked out, the family that took her in was Spanish speaking. 163 00:09:35,796 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 1: They spoke limited English, and she felt like she really 164 00:09:38,876 --> 00:09:41,956 Speaker 1: wanted to communicate with this family and she couldn't because 165 00:09:41,956 --> 00:09:44,836 Speaker 1: she didn't speak Spanish. So she, you know, started listening 166 00:09:44,836 --> 00:09:47,396 Speaker 1: to podcasts and books on tape just to learn Spanish 167 00:09:47,396 --> 00:09:49,516 Speaker 1: so she could communicate with this family that was taking 168 00:09:49,516 --> 00:09:54,476 Speaker 1: her in. That's the story, right, yes, And for her 169 00:09:54,596 --> 00:09:56,796 Speaker 1: it was just I'm really interested in languages and I 170 00:09:56,836 --> 00:09:59,316 Speaker 1: want to go study abroad and see how the world 171 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:02,916 Speaker 1: is and all of this stuff. Marisa went to a 172 00:10:02,996 --> 00:10:06,556 Speaker 1: high school just like Kayla's. She knows Kayla because she 173 00:10:06,796 --> 00:10:11,196 Speaker 1: was Kayla once and now she's her college application coach 174 00:10:11,956 --> 00:10:16,276 Speaker 1: multiplied this story by thousands, and you never know, maybe 175 00:10:16,276 --> 00:10:25,436 Speaker 1: it changes the world. The decline of social mobility, it's 176 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:27,556 Speaker 1: a desperate problem, and no one seems to know how 177 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:30,596 Speaker 1: to solve it. But when you hear the story of 178 00:10:30,676 --> 00:10:33,156 Speaker 1: Kleis Sasser, or at least when I hear the story 179 00:10:33,196 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 1: of Kleis Sasser, I wonder is this partly a coaching problem? 180 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:41,316 Speaker 1: That is, is it a problem that coaches might help 181 00:10:41,356 --> 00:10:47,116 Speaker 1: to solve? This idea isn't original with me. Dave Eggers 182 00:10:47,116 --> 00:10:49,636 Speaker 1: had it back in the year two thousand. He had 183 00:10:49,636 --> 00:10:52,916 Speaker 1: recently published his first book, which was called a heartbreaking 184 00:10:52,916 --> 00:10:56,876 Speaker 1: work of staggering genius, and he'd also started tutoring kids 185 00:10:56,876 --> 00:10:59,956 Speaker 1: who'd fallen behind in school. When I heard about Dave 186 00:11:00,036 --> 00:11:02,836 Speaker 1: doing this back then, I remember thinking he's just looking 187 00:11:02,836 --> 00:11:05,596 Speaker 1: for even more ways to make other writers feel inferior. 188 00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:09,836 Speaker 1: But Dave was actually into it. He could see that 189 00:11:09,916 --> 00:11:17,476 Speaker 1: his tutoring had a big effect, and a thought struck him. 190 00:11:17,596 --> 00:11:20,716 Speaker 1: The teachers here in San Francisco that I knew might 191 00:11:20,796 --> 00:11:23,476 Speaker 1: have one hundred or one hundred and fifty students a day, 192 00:11:23,556 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 1: and they just didn't have enough time to reach and 193 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:30,196 Speaker 1: bring every student up to grade level, especially on their 194 00:11:30,236 --> 00:11:33,756 Speaker 1: English writing and reading. And so they kept saying, if 195 00:11:33,956 --> 00:11:37,036 Speaker 1: I could clone myself, I could give all of these 196 00:11:37,116 --> 00:11:40,076 Speaker 1: kids the time that they needed. And that just sort 197 00:11:40,116 --> 00:11:43,396 Speaker 1: of sunk in and rattled in my brain for a 198 00:11:43,396 --> 00:11:49,116 Speaker 1: few years, and finally we thought, well, maybe we could 199 00:11:49,236 --> 00:11:53,876 Speaker 1: use all of this available time among the writers, editors, freelancers, journalists, 200 00:11:54,516 --> 00:11:58,196 Speaker 1: graduate students that we know and have them become this 201 00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:02,316 Speaker 1: clone army, helping the students bring each student up to 202 00:12:02,356 --> 00:12:05,876 Speaker 1: grade level by giving them that hour or two of 203 00:12:05,876 --> 00:12:09,436 Speaker 1: one on one attention every day after school, and it worked, 204 00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:12,596 Speaker 1: and it grew kind of rapidly. Dave rented a building 205 00:12:12,636 --> 00:12:15,436 Speaker 1: for his Clone Army. It was in the Mission District 206 00:12:15,436 --> 00:12:19,116 Speaker 1: of San Francisco. He named the organization for the address 207 00:12:19,756 --> 00:12:23,196 Speaker 1: eight twenty six Valencia. In the back was the McSweeney's 208 00:12:23,196 --> 00:12:26,516 Speaker 1: publishing offices and the front was all going to be 209 00:12:26,596 --> 00:12:29,996 Speaker 1: the tutoring center. But that's when the landlord told us 210 00:12:30,036 --> 00:12:33,116 Speaker 1: that the front was zoned for retail and we had 211 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:41,836 Speaker 1: to sell something in the storefront. What about. That's when 212 00:12:41,876 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 1: we came upon the idea of selling buccaneer supplies to 213 00:12:46,116 --> 00:12:54,916 Speaker 1: working pirates. Twenty six Valencia became both tutoring center and 214 00:12:55,476 --> 00:13:02,876 Speaker 1: pirate gear retail store. Yeah. Soon Dave opened another tutoring 215 00:13:02,916 --> 00:13:07,276 Speaker 1: center in Boston, which sold Bigfoot themed merchandise, and yet 216 00:13:07,276 --> 00:13:11,956 Speaker 1: another in Brooklyn, which sold superhero equipment. But as Dave's 217 00:13:12,036 --> 00:13:15,516 Speaker 1: organization encountered and helped more kids, he started to see 218 00:13:15,556 --> 00:13:19,236 Speaker 1: another problem. You know. The kids started aging up, and 219 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,116 Speaker 1: we had a lot of high school kids come in 220 00:13:21,196 --> 00:13:24,316 Speaker 1: for various programs, and I started writing college rex for 221 00:13:24,356 --> 00:13:28,676 Speaker 1: these kids and realizing that depending on whether or not 222 00:13:28,716 --> 00:13:32,396 Speaker 1: their family their parents had gone to college, they had 223 00:13:32,556 --> 00:13:38,156 Speaker 1: a drastically different levels of preparation. Dave's tutors were working 224 00:13:38,196 --> 00:13:40,636 Speaker 1: mostly with kids from families in which no one had 225 00:13:40,676 --> 00:13:43,596 Speaker 1: ever gone to college. He saw that the society was 226 00:13:43,636 --> 00:13:48,436 Speaker 1: saying one thing about social mobility but doing another. It 227 00:13:48,516 --> 00:13:51,996 Speaker 1: had structured itself to keep these kids in the class 228 00:13:52,036 --> 00:13:54,516 Speaker 1: to which they were born. The kids that had family 229 00:13:54,516 --> 00:13:57,916 Speaker 1: members had gone to college might be applying to twelve 230 00:13:58,036 --> 00:14:01,476 Speaker 1: or thirteen colleges all over the country because they knew 231 00:14:01,556 --> 00:14:03,956 Speaker 1: the landscape their parents had sort of told them the 232 00:14:04,436 --> 00:14:08,596 Speaker 1: wider national college landscape. And the kids that were first 233 00:14:08,596 --> 00:14:10,556 Speaker 1: in their family, they go into public schools here in 234 00:14:10,596 --> 00:14:15,836 Speaker 1: San Francisco generally applied to two colleges, City College and 235 00:14:16,156 --> 00:14:20,676 Speaker 1: SF State, and they did not generally know about all 236 00:14:20,676 --> 00:14:24,076 Speaker 1: the other opportunities. It surprised you that the public schools 237 00:14:24,116 --> 00:14:27,076 Speaker 1: that they were in didn't have college counseling departments that 238 00:14:27,276 --> 00:14:31,996 Speaker 1: had done this work for them. Well. In California, the 239 00:14:32,116 --> 00:14:37,516 Speaker 1: last statistic I saw said that in among public high 240 00:14:37,556 --> 00:14:41,876 Speaker 1: school students in California, the ratio of students to counselors 241 00:14:41,996 --> 00:14:45,676 Speaker 1: is nine hundred and forty five to one. And that's 242 00:14:45,756 --> 00:14:49,636 Speaker 1: not just college counselors. That's all counselors. So I keep 243 00:14:49,636 --> 00:14:52,316 Speaker 1: on meeting counselors. They would say, I'd say, what are 244 00:14:52,316 --> 00:14:54,796 Speaker 1: your goals this year? And she would say, my goal 245 00:14:54,836 --> 00:14:57,836 Speaker 1: this year is to meet the students in my cohort. 246 00:14:58,036 --> 00:15:02,036 Speaker 1: Just meet them, let alone spending maybe ten to twelve 247 00:15:02,076 --> 00:15:06,036 Speaker 1: hours per student that you might need to properly prepare 248 00:15:06,076 --> 00:15:12,676 Speaker 1: them for college. In twenty and ten, Dave created this 249 00:15:12,716 --> 00:15:15,996 Speaker 1: whole other organization to do for a bunch of kids 250 00:15:15,996 --> 00:15:19,156 Speaker 1: in San Francisco, essentially what Marissa had set out to 251 00:15:19,156 --> 00:15:23,356 Speaker 1: do for Kayla, to help them find good colleges and 252 00:15:23,436 --> 00:15:27,476 Speaker 1: to get into them. Dave called this new organization scholar Match, 253 00:15:28,116 --> 00:15:30,676 Speaker 1: and it was indeed able to help a couple of 254 00:15:30,756 --> 00:15:34,836 Speaker 1: hundred high school kids get scholarships and all seemed well, 255 00:15:35,876 --> 00:15:57,996 Speaker 1: but all was not well. So Dave eggers in his 256 00:15:58,116 --> 00:16:01,636 Speaker 1: scholar Match program, we're helping low income kids get into college. 257 00:16:02,356 --> 00:16:04,556 Speaker 1: But once the kids got there, they had a bunch 258 00:16:04,596 --> 00:16:09,556 Speaker 1: of problems that Dave hadn't anticipated. Stress about work, stress 259 00:16:09,596 --> 00:16:13,716 Speaker 1: about planning an hourly schedule, stress about their families back home, 260 00:16:14,556 --> 00:16:19,956 Speaker 1: health issues, and the kids started dropping out. Nationwide, the 261 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:24,276 Speaker 1: dropout rate for first generation college students is scandalous. Only 262 00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:27,076 Speaker 1: about one in every nine of them actually finishes school. 263 00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:31,236 Speaker 1: Scholar Match thought they'd anticipated this problem. I mean, they'd 264 00:16:31,236 --> 00:16:33,036 Speaker 1: found the right school for the student and the money 265 00:16:33,036 --> 00:16:36,436 Speaker 1: to pay for it, but still forty percent of their 266 00:16:36,516 --> 00:16:42,396 Speaker 1: kids were dropping out. Like, what good is it if 267 00:16:42,396 --> 00:16:45,196 Speaker 1: you go to a school with a full ride that 268 00:16:45,716 --> 00:16:49,316 Speaker 1: you're going to feel like you don't fit in or 269 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 1: like you're not welcome, and then it's you're going to 270 00:16:51,156 --> 00:16:53,836 Speaker 1: struggle the whole way and not make it anyway. Her 271 00:16:53,956 --> 00:16:57,356 Speaker 1: name is Diana Adamson. Dave Eggers hired her to run 272 00:16:57,396 --> 00:17:00,956 Speaker 1: scholar Match, and Diana started keeping a mental list of 273 00:17:00,996 --> 00:17:05,236 Speaker 1: all the snags their first generation students hit. A failed 274 00:17:05,316 --> 00:17:11,036 Speaker 1: class and illness, the wrong major, a parent whose immigration 275 00:17:11,116 --> 00:17:15,516 Speaker 1: status was called into question. These kids were being dealt 276 00:17:15,556 --> 00:17:19,396 Speaker 1: crippling blows by things that privileged kids might treat us 277 00:17:19,396 --> 00:17:22,196 Speaker 1: bumps in the road, and the blows could come before 278 00:17:22,196 --> 00:17:26,196 Speaker 1: they even set foot on any college campus. The summer 279 00:17:26,276 --> 00:17:29,356 Speaker 1: before the start of college was especially fraught. So there's 280 00:17:29,356 --> 00:17:32,236 Speaker 1: two things that happened in that summer. One is they 281 00:17:32,236 --> 00:17:34,316 Speaker 1: have to put in a housing deposit to reserve their 282 00:17:34,356 --> 00:17:37,516 Speaker 1: dorm and it costs a couple hundred dollars, sometimes as 283 00:17:37,596 --> 00:17:41,076 Speaker 1: much as four hundred. Most of our students have a 284 00:17:41,076 --> 00:17:43,156 Speaker 1: little bit of difficulty of coming up with four hundred 285 00:17:43,156 --> 00:17:46,316 Speaker 1: dollars in a week to send off to the school. 286 00:17:46,716 --> 00:17:48,996 Speaker 1: But if you don't do that, then you run the 287 00:17:49,076 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: risk of not getting put into dorm. And we've seen 288 00:17:50,996 --> 00:17:53,716 Speaker 1: that happen. And so then a student gets the money, 289 00:17:53,716 --> 00:17:55,996 Speaker 1: but it's late, and then they're not prioritized for a 290 00:17:56,036 --> 00:17:59,236 Speaker 1: dorm plicement, and then they suddenly don't have a dorm. 291 00:17:59,276 --> 00:18:01,076 Speaker 1: They have to live off campus as a freshman, and 292 00:18:01,236 --> 00:18:05,316 Speaker 1: it just becomes the first step in the unraveling of 293 00:18:06,276 --> 00:18:08,836 Speaker 1: oh what am I doing here? I don't belong here. 294 00:18:12,796 --> 00:18:15,836 Speaker 1: First generation college students from low income families were in 295 00:18:15,876 --> 00:18:18,956 Speaker 1: some ways incredibly robust. I mean, just to get into 296 00:18:18,996 --> 00:18:21,876 Speaker 1: a college was an amazing achievement, but they could be 297 00:18:21,996 --> 00:18:26,756 Speaker 1: derailed by problems that money alone couldn't solve. Even my 298 00:18:26,796 --> 00:18:30,916 Speaker 1: family disagreed with going into Ohio. Meet Andy Saw of 299 00:18:30,956 --> 00:18:33,876 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and your parents did not going to college? 300 00:18:34,316 --> 00:18:37,756 Speaker 1: No dinning to fardest stag I was in high school. 301 00:18:37,876 --> 00:18:40,316 Speaker 1: Were they born and raised here? They are all from China? 302 00:18:40,436 --> 00:18:43,476 Speaker 1: Are they? Yeah? None of them speak English. Andy went 303 00:18:43,516 --> 00:18:46,476 Speaker 1: through the scholar Match program and it introduced him to 304 00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:49,596 Speaker 1: the world, especially the world of private colleges with full 305 00:18:49,676 --> 00:18:53,716 Speaker 1: ride scholarships. Before that, he just assumed he'd go to 306 00:18:53,756 --> 00:18:58,076 Speaker 1: community college and maybe one day, if he got really lucky, 307 00:18:58,396 --> 00:19:01,916 Speaker 1: he'd transferred to a state university. I went over to 308 00:19:02,036 --> 00:19:06,516 Speaker 1: Tramission District. I was like, any helped with my application? 309 00:19:06,716 --> 00:19:09,596 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what I'm really doing either. That's where 310 00:19:10,316 --> 00:19:13,196 Speaker 1: Ohio Wesleyan came into the picture. How did it come 311 00:19:13,236 --> 00:19:16,556 Speaker 1: into the picture? Because I told him, well, doubt like 312 00:19:17,396 --> 00:19:21,076 Speaker 1: our community, the Asian American community, only thinks about UCSH. 313 00:19:21,436 --> 00:19:24,036 Speaker 1: So like you see this, you see that that's like 314 00:19:24,116 --> 00:19:26,316 Speaker 1: my only option. And then we have safety schools like 315 00:19:26,316 --> 00:19:28,076 Speaker 1: state and City. For sure, I'll get and those, but 316 00:19:28,596 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 1: UC is to reach right. Andy was talking with a 317 00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:36,356 Speaker 1: guy named Noel Ramirez, the person at scholar Match. You 318 00:19:36,516 --> 00:19:39,036 Speaker 1: helped him with his college application. And the thing with 319 00:19:39,076 --> 00:19:41,356 Speaker 1: Andy is that we had many conversations, and I can 320 00:19:41,396 --> 00:19:47,316 Speaker 1: recall with him that he had this exceptional interest in life. 321 00:19:47,436 --> 00:19:50,596 Speaker 1: It was beyond getting the job. You know, I think 322 00:19:50,636 --> 00:19:53,156 Speaker 1: it'd be letter recommendations I wrote for him that I 323 00:19:53,196 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 1: said that he was the type of student that wasn't 324 00:19:55,196 --> 00:19:59,236 Speaker 1: only interested in, you know, getting a job, getting married, 325 00:19:59,716 --> 00:20:03,876 Speaker 1: buying house, having kids, buying a pet. So with that, 326 00:20:03,956 --> 00:20:07,516 Speaker 1: I felt he would thrive at a place that would 327 00:20:07,516 --> 00:20:10,036 Speaker 1: have those types of conversations, where he could take philosophy class, 328 00:20:10,316 --> 00:20:12,196 Speaker 1: a religion class, where he would meet people from all 329 00:20:12,276 --> 00:20:13,716 Speaker 1: over the world, where he would take a risk and 330 00:20:13,756 --> 00:20:16,756 Speaker 1: go to a place that looks completely different from his world. 331 00:20:17,476 --> 00:20:20,716 Speaker 1: So Noel and Andy focused on applying to Ohio Wesleyan. 332 00:20:21,756 --> 00:20:24,596 Speaker 1: The school had a great biology program but also a 333 00:20:24,636 --> 00:20:29,156 Speaker 1: strong humanities program. It not only accepted Andy, he was 334 00:20:29,196 --> 00:20:32,276 Speaker 1: able to go there on scholarship. All Andy needed to 335 00:20:32,316 --> 00:20:34,996 Speaker 1: do was to get there, and that's when things took 336 00:20:34,996 --> 00:20:42,276 Speaker 1: a turn. Keep in mind, doesn't make my second time flying. 337 00:20:42,396 --> 00:20:45,036 Speaker 1: I did not know what to do. Andy's only other 338 00:20:45,076 --> 00:20:47,596 Speaker 1: time flying was when he was six months old. He 339 00:20:47,636 --> 00:20:50,116 Speaker 1: had no real experience with travel, and at the San 340 00:20:50,156 --> 00:20:53,676 Speaker 1: Francisco Airport his plane was fogged in. By the time 341 00:20:53,676 --> 00:20:56,676 Speaker 1: he landed in Chicago for his connecting flight to Ohio, 342 00:20:57,356 --> 00:21:01,236 Speaker 1: the flight was gone. What do you do? I walked 343 00:21:01,236 --> 00:21:04,236 Speaker 1: around just following people who were like on the same 344 00:21:04,236 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: planeful of us to going Ohio. Just listening to what 345 00:21:07,836 --> 00:21:11,196 Speaker 1: everyone's saying somewhere like I just I'm gonna go to 346 00:21:11,196 --> 00:21:13,716 Speaker 1: a hotel and sleep. And I'm like, I don't really 347 00:21:13,716 --> 00:21:16,356 Speaker 1: notice neighborhood, Like I don't want to take that risk. 348 00:21:16,796 --> 00:21:20,356 Speaker 1: He's now living in his head. So I walked around more. 349 00:21:20,956 --> 00:21:22,596 Speaker 1: They gave us a food voucher and I got my 350 00:21:22,596 --> 00:21:25,716 Speaker 1: food from McDonald's and I decided, like, it's not worth 351 00:21:25,876 --> 00:21:28,916 Speaker 1: going outside. I should just sleep in the airport. But 352 00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:30,636 Speaker 1: then someone told him he needed to go to the 353 00:21:30,636 --> 00:21:32,916 Speaker 1: ticket counter to get on the first flight out in 354 00:21:32,956 --> 00:21:36,836 Speaker 1: the morning, and Andy met his first gate agent. The 355 00:21:36,836 --> 00:21:40,196 Speaker 1: airline person ripped up my ticket. He said, this ticket 356 00:21:40,276 --> 00:21:42,196 Speaker 1: no longer works. We're gonna rip it up. He ripped 357 00:21:42,196 --> 00:21:43,676 Speaker 1: it in front of my face and I was like, man, 358 00:21:43,756 --> 00:21:44,996 Speaker 1: you can't do this to me right now, and I 359 00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 1: tear it up. So you thought he was taking away 360 00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:49,356 Speaker 1: your ticket. Yeah, I was gonna be trapped into hair. 361 00:21:49,396 --> 00:21:52,116 Speaker 1: I was like, why don't you do that? I started 362 00:21:52,116 --> 00:21:54,876 Speaker 1: tearing out. I was like where first time crying so 363 00:21:55,316 --> 00:21:58,036 Speaker 1: really well, like in front of people. Yeah, they ripped 364 00:21:58,036 --> 00:22:00,516 Speaker 1: over your ticket. It's like they sent and seeing YouTube 365 00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:02,996 Speaker 1: life in prison in O'Hare airport. Yeah, because what it 366 00:22:03,076 --> 00:22:04,956 Speaker 1: feels like I was going to be trapped her Like, 367 00:22:04,956 --> 00:22:09,956 Speaker 1: why'd you do that? I have no exit? Now, Yeah, 368 00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:15,556 Speaker 1: that was pretty bad, and it was bad, but it 369 00:22:15,596 --> 00:22:20,356 Speaker 1: got worse. Andy called home and his family reminded him 370 00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:22,476 Speaker 1: that they hadn't liked the idea of him going so 371 00:22:22,556 --> 00:22:25,716 Speaker 1: far away. Your family, your family thought it was a 372 00:22:25,716 --> 00:22:27,516 Speaker 1: bad idea. It was a bad idea, like, look, well, 373 00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:29,316 Speaker 1: look what you've been doing, Like you shouldn't not be 374 00:22:29,356 --> 00:22:31,876 Speaker 1: going to this place. Look at all these negative outcome 375 00:22:31,916 --> 00:22:34,916 Speaker 1: that happened. Andy tried to sleep that night on the 376 00:22:34,956 --> 00:22:38,516 Speaker 1: floor of O'Hare Airport, but his parents' fears echoed in 377 00:22:38,596 --> 00:22:41,076 Speaker 1: his head. It was a bad ideally, look on out 378 00:22:41,156 --> 00:22:45,156 Speaker 1: negative outcome that happened. This far away college thing was 379 00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:52,116 Speaker 1: a big mistake. And he comes back like with this 380 00:22:52,276 --> 00:22:54,236 Speaker 1: terrible attitude about the trip, saying, I don't want to 381 00:22:54,236 --> 00:22:57,956 Speaker 1: go anymore. It's not worth it. Noel Ramirez again, Andy's 382 00:22:57,996 --> 00:23:01,916 Speaker 1: college coach. I just I couldn't believe it. That's something 383 00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:03,916 Speaker 1: that I guess I wasn't prepared. I didn't know I 384 00:23:03,956 --> 00:23:07,476 Speaker 1: should have prepared him in advanced mentally, what happens when 385 00:23:07,556 --> 00:23:10,396 Speaker 1: you face these types of obstacles, But how would how 386 00:23:10,436 --> 00:23:12,036 Speaker 1: would you ever have prepared him for it? I guess 387 00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:14,516 Speaker 1: you could have taken him you simulate a flight, actually, 388 00:23:14,596 --> 00:23:17,716 Speaker 1: you know, to be honest, after that incident, that's that's 389 00:23:17,756 --> 00:23:20,636 Speaker 1: what I started to do actually for students that were 390 00:23:20,676 --> 00:23:24,116 Speaker 1: going to taking a plane right away. We did develop 391 00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:26,916 Speaker 1: kind of a training module for these students so that 392 00:23:26,956 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 1: they know exactly what to do. This sort of thing 393 00:23:30,556 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 1: was now happening all the time at scholar Match. Here's 394 00:23:33,876 --> 00:23:37,156 Speaker 1: Dave Eggers again. Once there was an obstacle, or once 395 00:23:37,196 --> 00:23:40,996 Speaker 1: there was a reason to quit, they often did. They don't. 396 00:23:41,076 --> 00:23:42,836 Speaker 1: They don't have a set of assumptions like the set 397 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:44,956 Speaker 1: of assumptions that you and I grew up with that 398 00:23:44,996 --> 00:23:47,356 Speaker 1: you just you're just supposed to go to college when 399 00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:49,996 Speaker 1: you are the first It can be like heading out, 400 00:23:50,396 --> 00:23:52,956 Speaker 1: you know, on a polar expedition to the North Pole, 401 00:23:53,036 --> 00:23:55,756 Speaker 1: Like why why would you go do that when you 402 00:23:55,796 --> 00:24:03,076 Speaker 1: could be home. Scholar Match had set out to connect 403 00:24:03,076 --> 00:24:06,556 Speaker 1: smart and ambitious kids from low income families with rich 404 00:24:06,636 --> 00:24:09,476 Speaker 1: colleges that had the resources to support them. But the 405 00:24:09,516 --> 00:24:12,676 Speaker 1: colleges were in some ways ill equipped to educate kids 406 00:24:12,676 --> 00:24:16,356 Speaker 1: who grew up without money or the assumptions that money 407 00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:20,516 Speaker 1: allows you to have everything you've described about and the 408 00:24:20,556 --> 00:24:25,036 Speaker 1: coaches have described about the relationship of this pool of 409 00:24:25,156 --> 00:24:29,476 Speaker 1: kids to this process makes it feel like a catastrophic 410 00:24:29,596 --> 00:24:32,276 Speaker 1: environment where there is there's so many things that could 411 00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:34,716 Speaker 1: kill you in the environment. It's true. It's like if 412 00:24:34,756 --> 00:24:38,836 Speaker 1: you could build a system against students that didn't have 413 00:24:38,916 --> 00:24:41,076 Speaker 1: support navigating it, this is what it would look like. 414 00:24:41,476 --> 00:24:44,396 Speaker 1: This is the director of Scholar Match, Diana Adamson. We've 415 00:24:44,396 --> 00:24:49,236 Speaker 1: heard this from students before, where almost like they didn't 416 00:24:49,276 --> 00:24:52,196 Speaker 1: know they were poor until they got there. And it's 417 00:24:52,236 --> 00:24:56,236 Speaker 1: not so much that they thought they had all this money, 418 00:24:56,396 --> 00:24:58,956 Speaker 1: you know, It's more like they were fine, like they 419 00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:02,516 Speaker 1: were their life was adequate for them, and it's not 420 00:25:02,676 --> 00:25:05,836 Speaker 1: until you get to this place where you realize like, 421 00:25:06,196 --> 00:25:08,276 Speaker 1: oh wow, the ceiling is so much higher than you 422 00:25:08,316 --> 00:25:12,356 Speaker 1: ever imagine and you just didn't even realize. It creates 423 00:25:12,356 --> 00:25:17,596 Speaker 1: some complex emotions a bad grain on a paper or 424 00:25:17,676 --> 00:25:21,036 Speaker 1: God forbid and f you can feel like the end 425 00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:23,116 Speaker 1: of the world for a lot of kids in college. 426 00:25:23,356 --> 00:25:25,756 Speaker 1: But it's so much worse when no one back home 427 00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:32,356 Speaker 1: has any clue what you're up against. We had a 428 00:25:32,396 --> 00:25:34,756 Speaker 1: student once tell us. I think she summed it up 429 00:25:34,756 --> 00:25:38,076 Speaker 1: the best, where she was so excited that she had 430 00:25:38,116 --> 00:25:42,076 Speaker 1: just picked her major and she didn't know how to 431 00:25:42,076 --> 00:25:43,716 Speaker 1: tell her parents about it because she didn't know the 432 00:25:43,756 --> 00:25:47,876 Speaker 1: word for it in Chinese and her parents don't speak English. 433 00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:52,476 Speaker 1: So there was just this huge disconnect where she wants 434 00:25:52,476 --> 00:25:54,716 Speaker 1: to go home and tell her parents all about this 435 00:25:54,796 --> 00:25:57,156 Speaker 1: amazing things that she's learning, and she just doesn't have 436 00:25:57,276 --> 00:26:00,596 Speaker 1: the words for it. They can't actually understand. Yeah, but 437 00:26:00,676 --> 00:26:04,756 Speaker 1: that's a little metaphor for the whole exactly the whole problem. Yeah, 438 00:26:05,316 --> 00:26:07,796 Speaker 1: Dave and Diana get the idea of hiring people to 439 00:26:07,876 --> 00:26:10,916 Speaker 1: work with scholar match kids. It's after they get into college, 440 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:14,156 Speaker 1: but they need the right kind of person, the right 441 00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:16,916 Speaker 1: kind of coach. So we would do a lot of 442 00:26:17,036 --> 00:26:22,076 Speaker 1: role plays and just see could they empathize with the student. 443 00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:24,116 Speaker 1: So we we had a couple of scenarios that we 444 00:26:24,236 --> 00:26:26,916 Speaker 1: knew would come up, and we would have a staff 445 00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:30,756 Speaker 1: member play the student and hear how they and they 446 00:26:30,756 --> 00:26:32,756 Speaker 1: didn't have to hit do it perfectly. You know, there 447 00:26:32,836 --> 00:26:35,756 Speaker 1: was give me an example, I mean, so put me 448 00:26:35,836 --> 00:26:39,276 Speaker 1: in the position. Okay, So, um, do you do you 449 00:26:39,356 --> 00:26:41,556 Speaker 1: want to be the coach? Yeah, okay, so maybe I'm 450 00:26:41,596 --> 00:26:46,636 Speaker 1: applying for the job. Okay, So the scenario is, um, 451 00:26:47,996 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 1: you're doing a check in call with me, and I 452 00:26:50,796 --> 00:26:57,236 Speaker 1: just got my grades back and I'm um, failing a class, 453 00:26:57,396 --> 00:26:59,796 Speaker 1: and so I want to leave and go home because 454 00:26:59,796 --> 00:27:03,996 Speaker 1: you're failing a class. Yeah. Is it your first year. Yeah, 455 00:27:03,996 --> 00:27:06,756 Speaker 1: it's my first time. It's my first investor, what did 456 00:27:06,756 --> 00:27:10,156 Speaker 1: you fail? Doesn't matter? Um, I feel chemistry and I 457 00:27:10,156 --> 00:27:13,076 Speaker 1: want to be a doctor. You want to be a doctor. Yeah, 458 00:27:13,116 --> 00:27:15,916 Speaker 1: And I'm supposed to say something now. Yeah, so you're 459 00:27:15,956 --> 00:27:18,276 Speaker 1: calling for what you've seen my grades, but we haven't 460 00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:20,396 Speaker 1: talked to my own kid would be what the fuck 461 00:27:20,436 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 1: are you doing? What are Yeah, so that's already I'm 462 00:27:24,556 --> 00:27:26,996 Speaker 1: I'm already disqualified. So I've got to get into a 463 00:27:27,036 --> 00:27:30,676 Speaker 1: different space. It's a different kind of child. Yeah. Well, 464 00:27:30,796 --> 00:27:33,596 Speaker 1: first thing I'd say is when I was your age, 465 00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:36,996 Speaker 1: I failed a class too, actually, and I took it 466 00:27:37,076 --> 00:27:40,956 Speaker 1: past fail, so it's even it's even less forgivable. So 467 00:27:41,236 --> 00:27:44,556 Speaker 1: just for starters, that f is not the end of 468 00:27:44,556 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 1: the world. Okay, that's a great first step. You're normalizing 469 00:27:47,396 --> 00:27:49,996 Speaker 1: the experience. It's a it's a it's tone at the 470 00:27:50,036 --> 00:27:52,436 Speaker 1: end of the world. In fact, I did quite well 471 00:27:52,916 --> 00:27:54,996 Speaker 1: in college after that. So it was just it was 472 00:27:55,036 --> 00:27:56,316 Speaker 1: just a bump on the road and I had to 473 00:27:56,356 --> 00:27:58,756 Speaker 1: figure out what it was I was doing that I 474 00:27:58,796 --> 00:28:01,316 Speaker 1: needed to change. In my case, I needed to stop 475 00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:04,156 Speaker 1: going to squash play squash instead of going to the 476 00:28:04,196 --> 00:28:07,316 Speaker 1: physics labe. But but but that was but it took 477 00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:08,996 Speaker 1: me a while to figure that out. So but in 478 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:13,316 Speaker 1: your case, I mean, let's talk about what how did 479 00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:15,316 Speaker 1: you feel like it when you were in that class? 480 00:28:15,476 --> 00:28:19,156 Speaker 1: Did you? Oh? I felt terrible. I couldn't understand the lectures. 481 00:28:19,236 --> 00:28:21,956 Speaker 1: I couldn't keep up with it. I feel like everyone 482 00:28:22,036 --> 00:28:24,756 Speaker 1: else in the class had taken chemistry in high school 483 00:28:24,836 --> 00:28:26,716 Speaker 1: and so they just knew the stuff and they didn't 484 00:28:26,756 --> 00:28:30,836 Speaker 1: even have to study. And that's probably true. It's probably 485 00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,276 Speaker 1: true that you came into that class. It's some kind 486 00:28:33,276 --> 00:28:36,076 Speaker 1: of disadvantage because you're not used to failing much. You've 487 00:28:36,116 --> 00:28:39,876 Speaker 1: been a great student your whole life, and it's really hard, 488 00:28:41,396 --> 00:28:45,276 Speaker 1: really hard to start off behind everybody in something. And 489 00:28:45,316 --> 00:28:48,596 Speaker 1: if you'd been this, if, if if those kids had 490 00:28:48,596 --> 00:28:51,996 Speaker 1: been in your situation, they probably would have failed too. 491 00:28:52,476 --> 00:28:54,876 Speaker 1: So so maybe the first thing we need to talk 492 00:28:54,876 --> 00:28:57,156 Speaker 1: about is how you decide what classes you're going to take. 493 00:28:57,196 --> 00:28:59,636 Speaker 1: So we so we don't put you in this situation 494 00:28:59,636 --> 00:29:02,076 Speaker 1: again because it's not a fair situation. You're questioning it. 495 00:29:02,236 --> 00:29:04,916 Speaker 1: Maybe we would hire you. Yeah, well, actually the first 496 00:29:04,916 --> 00:29:06,276 Speaker 1: thing I say is what the fuck are you doing? 497 00:29:06,316 --> 00:29:10,076 Speaker 1: So you got you throw me out of the room. 498 00:29:10,076 --> 00:29:12,356 Speaker 1: So I'm probably not built to be a college coach, 499 00:29:12,836 --> 00:29:15,956 Speaker 1: but Diana finds plenty of people who are and they 500 00:29:15,956 --> 00:29:32,316 Speaker 1: start coaching, and the coaching pays off. Scholar Matches started 501 00:29:32,356 --> 00:29:34,996 Speaker 1: out almost as a technical advisor for kids on how 502 00:29:35,036 --> 00:29:38,156 Speaker 1: to apply to college, how to apply for loans and grants, 503 00:29:38,396 --> 00:29:41,076 Speaker 1: but in short order it became something else, a place 504 00:29:41,116 --> 00:29:43,476 Speaker 1: where students could be coached as they tried to move 505 00:29:43,556 --> 00:29:46,956 Speaker 1: from one social class to another. The new coaches became 506 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:50,116 Speaker 1: deeply involved in the lives of the students, and they 507 00:29:50,116 --> 00:29:54,636 Speaker 1: had astonishing effects. The graduation rate for scholar Match kids 508 00:29:54,796 --> 00:29:58,676 Speaker 1: went from sixty percent to eighty one, which beat the 509 00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:03,116 Speaker 1: national average for all college students, never mind first generation ones. 510 00:30:03,956 --> 00:30:07,316 Speaker 1: Coaching these kids all the way to a college diploma 511 00:30:07,716 --> 00:30:12,036 Speaker 1: costs scholar Match rough thirteen thousand dollars a student. The 512 00:30:12,116 --> 00:30:15,236 Speaker 1: expected lifetime earnings of a person with a college degree 513 00:30:15,596 --> 00:30:18,556 Speaker 1: is one point two million dollars more than a person 514 00:30:18,596 --> 00:30:21,396 Speaker 1: who doesn't graduate from college. But it's not only that 515 00:30:21,996 --> 00:30:24,036 Speaker 1: a college degree in a family that it's never had 516 00:30:24,036 --> 00:30:27,396 Speaker 1: one that has even more ripple effects. For instance, it 517 00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:29,716 Speaker 1: makes it a lot more likely that younger siblings will 518 00:30:29,756 --> 00:30:35,836 Speaker 1: go to college. But the scholar match coaching was also 519 00:30:35,916 --> 00:30:41,556 Speaker 1: having effects that were harder to measure. I didn't really 520 00:30:41,596 --> 00:30:43,316 Speaker 1: see myself going to college. I don't. None of my 521 00:30:43,356 --> 00:30:46,476 Speaker 1: friends that I grew up with did. This is Lewis Mendez. 522 00:30:46,836 --> 00:30:49,156 Speaker 1: It wasn't something that was possible for me, giving my 523 00:30:49,196 --> 00:30:52,956 Speaker 1: academic background, given to things that you know I was into, 524 00:30:53,436 --> 00:30:56,356 Speaker 1: and if you want to get a picture, you know, 525 00:30:56,396 --> 00:30:59,516 Speaker 1: I grew up here in San Francisco. We grew up 526 00:30:59,516 --> 00:31:03,036 Speaker 1: doing what teenagers in the city do, you know, vandalizing, smoking, 527 00:31:03,076 --> 00:31:06,356 Speaker 1: we drinking, you know, and all that. Lewis got himself 528 00:31:06,356 --> 00:31:08,716 Speaker 1: thrown out of high school his junior year and he 529 00:31:08,716 --> 00:31:11,796 Speaker 1: went to work doing odd jobs. When I was sixteen 530 00:31:11,876 --> 00:31:17,276 Speaker 1: or seventeen, I started reading books right my stepdad. He 531 00:31:18,076 --> 00:31:20,716 Speaker 1: was incarce rated for about eight to ten years. He 532 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:22,796 Speaker 1: knew all the classic books. He had read them all 533 00:31:22,836 --> 00:31:25,276 Speaker 1: while incars rated right. He started passing them down to me, 534 00:31:26,236 --> 00:31:29,876 Speaker 1: Napoleon Hill, thinking girl rich, rich dad, poor dad. All 535 00:31:29,916 --> 00:31:34,156 Speaker 1: these books they're saying, you know, if you think it, 536 00:31:34,676 --> 00:31:36,676 Speaker 1: if you believe it was all the cliche stuff, right. 537 00:31:36,716 --> 00:31:38,356 Speaker 1: But I bought into it at the time, like, hey, 538 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:41,676 Speaker 1: like it is possible for me to grow and and 539 00:31:42,596 --> 00:31:48,596 Speaker 1: do something with my life. And Lewis turns a corner, 540 00:31:49,956 --> 00:31:54,996 Speaker 1: gets a ged, goes to community college, gets a variety 541 00:31:55,036 --> 00:31:58,956 Speaker 1: of part time jobs, and gets himself into UC Davis 542 00:31:58,956 --> 00:32:04,796 Speaker 1: on his own. And then I was walking into the 543 00:32:04,796 --> 00:32:07,836 Speaker 1: neighborhood in the mission, in the mission, right in the 544 00:32:07,876 --> 00:32:11,676 Speaker 1: Mission district of Valencia. And it was the summer before 545 00:32:11,676 --> 00:32:15,636 Speaker 1: I started school that UC Davis Lewis had spotted the 546 00:32:15,676 --> 00:32:18,996 Speaker 1: scholar Match office. He'd already gotten himself into a good 547 00:32:18,996 --> 00:32:21,956 Speaker 1: college and you'd already figured out how to pay for 548 00:32:21,996 --> 00:32:24,836 Speaker 1: it up to some point, or had you not. I 549 00:32:24,956 --> 00:32:31,316 Speaker 1: figured that there is going to fall into place. I said, 550 00:32:31,316 --> 00:32:34,316 Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. All Lewis needed at the time 551 00:32:34,396 --> 00:32:37,156 Speaker 1: was access to a computer so he could take his 552 00:32:37,316 --> 00:32:41,236 Speaker 1: UC Davis placement exams. Scholar Match let him use a computer, 553 00:32:41,276 --> 00:32:44,236 Speaker 1: and so Lewis kept coming back and they grew so 554 00:32:44,316 --> 00:32:46,316 Speaker 1: fond of him that they offered to help him out more. 555 00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:49,836 Speaker 1: He hadn't gone through their program, so they couldn't give 556 00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:52,916 Speaker 1: him money, but they could give him a coach. What's 557 00:32:52,956 --> 00:32:57,076 Speaker 1: the coach's name? Kate. Lewis had zero sense at that 558 00:32:57,116 --> 00:32:59,276 Speaker 1: point that he was going to need Kate, but as 559 00:32:59,276 --> 00:33:02,516 Speaker 1: it turned out, UC Davis was a shock to his system. 560 00:33:03,156 --> 00:33:05,316 Speaker 1: The campus was only an hour or so away from 561 00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:07,116 Speaker 1: where he grew up, but it was the first time 562 00:33:07,156 --> 00:33:10,516 Speaker 1: that he felt like he was in another world. I mean, like, 563 00:33:10,556 --> 00:33:12,836 Speaker 1: did you have trouble making friends? Uh? Did you? You You 564 00:33:12,876 --> 00:33:15,036 Speaker 1: don't seem like camp president is gonna have trouble making friends. 565 00:33:15,116 --> 00:33:17,716 Speaker 1: Well my story. I don't want to blame it on 566 00:33:17,876 --> 00:33:19,596 Speaker 1: the campus. I don't want to blame it on the 567 00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:23,356 Speaker 1: population or you know, the design of the program or 568 00:33:23,396 --> 00:33:27,116 Speaker 1: anything like on demographics. But for whatever reason, I did 569 00:33:27,156 --> 00:33:29,876 Speaker 1: have a challenge of going deeper in my relationships with 570 00:33:29,916 --> 00:33:32,236 Speaker 1: students on campus. I would see students that were like 571 00:33:32,276 --> 00:33:35,196 Speaker 1: the best of buds and me, you know, as the 572 00:33:35,236 --> 00:33:36,996 Speaker 1: guy everyone knew it, and I was cool with a 573 00:33:37,036 --> 00:33:40,836 Speaker 1: lot of people, but I don't think I ever got 574 00:33:40,916 --> 00:33:46,476 Speaker 1: to that deep, consistent connection with other ways my peers huh, yeah, 575 00:33:46,556 --> 00:33:50,156 Speaker 1: because you felt different. Lewis tried going to a frat party, 576 00:33:50,476 --> 00:33:53,436 Speaker 1: didn't like it. I actually found my place in the 577 00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:57,916 Speaker 1: Christian community, but on a day to day basis, it 578 00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:00,876 Speaker 1: just it wasn't a deep connection. I guess with my peers. 579 00:34:01,156 --> 00:34:03,516 Speaker 1: That's unusual. That strikes me as odd that you were 580 00:34:03,876 --> 00:34:06,156 Speaker 1: so in meshed in the Christian community and it didn't 581 00:34:06,236 --> 00:34:09,716 Speaker 1: yield deep relationships. I would think it would, right, because 582 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:13,236 Speaker 1: that's the idea behind it, Right. Did you feel vulnerable 583 00:34:13,316 --> 00:34:17,036 Speaker 1: or exposed or like did you were you scared or 584 00:34:18,196 --> 00:34:21,036 Speaker 1: did you did you feel insecure? I was scared and 585 00:34:21,516 --> 00:34:24,556 Speaker 1: I was at this point, I remember it clearly. Um. 586 00:34:24,676 --> 00:34:27,716 Speaker 1: I was in tears because I thought to myself, if 587 00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:31,236 Speaker 1: if I can't make solid friendships and deep connection on 588 00:34:31,316 --> 00:34:35,756 Speaker 1: the college campus when it's like geared for that for socialization, 589 00:34:36,836 --> 00:34:39,356 Speaker 1: how am I going to make connections and deep friendships 590 00:34:40,156 --> 00:34:43,396 Speaker 1: post college when everyone's just everywhere and it is not 591 00:34:43,436 --> 00:34:46,276 Speaker 1: as structured, right, and it isn't this the place where 592 00:34:46,276 --> 00:34:49,196 Speaker 1: everyone meets their best friends, like where's my so? Yeah, 593 00:34:49,396 --> 00:34:54,116 Speaker 1: I was a little scared about that, um, but quitting 594 00:34:54,156 --> 00:34:56,956 Speaker 1: and dropping out just wasn't an option for me. Still, 595 00:34:57,036 --> 00:35:03,196 Speaker 1: Lewis didn't think to turn to his college coach Kate. 596 00:35:05,956 --> 00:35:08,956 Speaker 1: So this is where Lewis wandered in. This is exactly 597 00:35:08,956 --> 00:35:12,156 Speaker 1: what where Lewis came when he was working for Uber. 598 00:35:13,396 --> 00:35:16,196 Speaker 1: This is Kate Mueller. At the time she met Lewis, 599 00:35:16,436 --> 00:35:18,956 Speaker 1: who was driving an uber to make ends meet. She 600 00:35:19,076 --> 00:35:22,716 Speaker 1: was also coaching fifty other students, but she paid enough 601 00:35:22,756 --> 00:35:25,036 Speaker 1: attention to Lewis to see that he was struggling and 602 00:35:25,156 --> 00:35:27,956 Speaker 1: trying to hide it. So she tells him, we're going 603 00:35:28,036 --> 00:35:31,636 Speaker 1: to have adult relationship and honesty is a big part 604 00:35:31,676 --> 00:35:34,636 Speaker 1: of that, and we're going to be accountable to each other. 605 00:35:35,356 --> 00:35:38,476 Speaker 1: And I am here to guide you and making sure 606 00:35:38,556 --> 00:35:41,716 Speaker 1: you grow as a person. And when I feel like 607 00:35:41,796 --> 00:35:46,676 Speaker 1: there's a missing part of that story, I asked, you 608 00:35:46,716 --> 00:35:50,476 Speaker 1: know this isn't totally adding up. Around this time, Louis 609 00:35:50,476 --> 00:35:52,916 Speaker 1: did something that caught his coach his attention and would 610 00:35:52,956 --> 00:35:56,236 Speaker 1: have caught no one else's. He was late for a class. 611 00:35:56,876 --> 00:36:00,476 Speaker 1: I missed calculus exam. I'll walk in and everyone's turning 612 00:36:00,516 --> 00:36:03,916 Speaker 1: it into Scantron's. I had to check in with Kate 613 00:36:04,036 --> 00:36:06,236 Speaker 1: later that day and she asked me about it. She said, Louis, 614 00:36:06,236 --> 00:36:09,956 Speaker 1: how did the exam go I said, well, what happened 615 00:36:10,076 --> 00:36:11,836 Speaker 1: was I thought the class started at eleven. You really 616 00:36:11,876 --> 00:36:14,836 Speaker 1: started at nine thirty. But I talked to my professor 617 00:36:14,876 --> 00:36:17,276 Speaker 1: and it's fine, he said, I still passed the class. 618 00:36:17,316 --> 00:36:20,076 Speaker 1: I just cannot miss another one, right, and had this 619 00:36:20,236 --> 00:36:25,676 Speaker 1: very relaxed attitude, no guilt, no regret. I got under 620 00:36:25,636 --> 00:36:28,476 Speaker 1: the control. Kate. I'm like, whoa, whoa, there's more to 621 00:36:28,556 --> 00:36:32,076 Speaker 1: this story, right, There's more to this story about missing 622 00:36:32,156 --> 00:36:35,796 Speaker 1: exam that isn't just thinking it's all going to work out. 623 00:36:36,196 --> 00:36:40,596 Speaker 1: And my goal then is to have authentic conversation of 624 00:36:41,436 --> 00:36:45,316 Speaker 1: don't you think that you should not be half asking 625 00:36:45,356 --> 00:36:47,916 Speaker 1: this thing that you've worked for your whole entire life. 626 00:36:48,556 --> 00:36:51,716 Speaker 1: The coach had noticed a tendency inner player. It wasn't 627 00:36:51,716 --> 00:36:54,916 Speaker 1: about him getting a C in that class. It wasn't 628 00:36:54,916 --> 00:36:57,276 Speaker 1: about getting a It was more how does he move 629 00:36:57,356 --> 00:37:01,516 Speaker 1: through life and actually push himself to learn and hold 630 00:37:01,556 --> 00:37:07,036 Speaker 1: himself responsible when it makes sense. Up to this point 631 00:37:07,036 --> 00:37:09,356 Speaker 1: in his life, Lewis Mendez had never really had a 632 00:37:09,396 --> 00:37:12,196 Speaker 1: lot of people who believed in him. How did you 633 00:37:12,236 --> 00:37:15,076 Speaker 1: decide she was someone you trusted? That's a good question. 634 00:37:15,676 --> 00:37:17,796 Speaker 1: I think I'd been waiting for such a long time 635 00:37:17,916 --> 00:37:21,196 Speaker 1: for an authority figure, because growing up from just my mom, 636 00:37:21,316 --> 00:37:23,916 Speaker 1: my mom being stretched super thin by all five of 637 00:37:23,996 --> 00:37:26,636 Speaker 1: us in work and everything, I never had anyone to 638 00:37:26,676 --> 00:37:28,276 Speaker 1: tell me what to do. So it's almost as if 639 00:37:28,356 --> 00:37:31,796 Speaker 1: Kate finally answered or met this need or this longing 640 00:37:31,956 --> 00:37:33,836 Speaker 1: of having someone to tell me to go to class. 641 00:37:34,356 --> 00:37:37,876 Speaker 1: Right when you grow up in a privilege environment, you 642 00:37:37,956 --> 00:37:40,956 Speaker 1: kind of take that voice for granted, you forget just 643 00:37:40,996 --> 00:37:43,916 Speaker 1: how powerful it can be. And she made you aware 644 00:37:43,956 --> 00:37:47,036 Speaker 1: of essentially a lower expectation you had for yourself exactly. 645 00:37:47,676 --> 00:37:49,876 Speaker 1: You might not even put it into words. I was 646 00:37:49,996 --> 00:37:53,236 Speaker 1: unconscious of it. I was unconscious. I figured, you know, 647 00:37:53,636 --> 00:37:55,396 Speaker 1: when I get to my career, that's when I really 648 00:37:55,556 --> 00:37:58,876 Speaker 1: come alive and turn up and really throw myself into 649 00:37:58,916 --> 00:38:01,596 Speaker 1: this work. But I just need to get through this first. 650 00:38:01,636 --> 00:38:05,316 Speaker 1: But she said, no, start now, don't wait. And the 651 00:38:05,396 --> 00:38:08,716 Speaker 1: reality is, at first he hears my voice saying, but 652 00:38:08,796 --> 00:38:15,476 Speaker 1: you know, time, he just hears himself saying, your coach 653 00:38:15,516 --> 00:38:18,316 Speaker 1: won't let you give up, even when that's all you're 654 00:38:18,316 --> 00:38:22,156 Speaker 1: trying to do. Andy saw hit a snag in the 655 00:38:22,196 --> 00:38:26,196 Speaker 1: O'Hare airport and then flew back home. He just wanted 656 00:38:26,236 --> 00:38:30,076 Speaker 1: to give up, but he didn't return just to his family. 657 00:38:30,836 --> 00:38:34,156 Speaker 1: He had to explain himself to his coach, Noel Ramirez 658 00:38:34,756 --> 00:38:36,436 Speaker 1: and got on the phone with Noil like, hey, I 659 00:38:36,476 --> 00:38:39,796 Speaker 1: can't do this. I'm gonna stick the safe route, not 660 00:38:39,876 --> 00:38:44,876 Speaker 1: the risky route. So I talked to Noel. I was crying, 661 00:38:44,916 --> 00:38:46,916 Speaker 1: like I can't do this. No I know you think 662 00:38:46,956 --> 00:38:49,636 Speaker 1: it's better, but I don't think it's better. It's not 663 00:38:49,756 --> 00:38:52,396 Speaker 1: possible for him me to go to Ohio. Noel, here's 664 00:38:52,396 --> 00:38:56,036 Speaker 1: Andy's say that he's already enrolled in a local community college. 665 00:38:59,476 --> 00:39:03,596 Speaker 1: He then says, you can do this, go back to 666 00:39:03,636 --> 00:39:08,236 Speaker 1: Ohio Wesleyan. It's worth it. What's more, I will go 667 00:39:08,276 --> 00:39:11,316 Speaker 1: back with you. I'll get on the plane, fly with 668 00:39:11,396 --> 00:39:14,676 Speaker 1: you to Ohio and stay there until you feel happy. 669 00:39:14,836 --> 00:39:18,356 Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, I'll trust like I will 670 00:39:18,356 --> 00:39:22,436 Speaker 1: trust you like one hundred percent. This is the best option. 671 00:39:22,476 --> 00:39:29,276 Speaker 1: I believe you. Noel spends five days on campus, sleeping 672 00:39:29,276 --> 00:39:33,436 Speaker 1: on various couches. He introduces Andy to his new life. 673 00:39:34,636 --> 00:39:38,836 Speaker 1: After five days, he leaves and Andy stays. A bit later, 674 00:39:39,276 --> 00:39:42,116 Speaker 1: Andy's parents finally visited. They went there and they're like, 675 00:39:42,556 --> 00:39:44,996 Speaker 1: what does this place? There's no one here. Do you 676 00:39:45,116 --> 00:39:48,116 Speaker 1: have any like our Asian food? There's no rice, so 677 00:39:48,156 --> 00:39:50,556 Speaker 1: it's a coach of shock for them too. But I 678 00:39:50,676 --> 00:39:54,116 Speaker 1: trust everywhere Downie said, I just one hundred percent trusted it. 679 00:39:54,756 --> 00:39:59,476 Speaker 1: Andy Saw graduated from Ohio Wesleyan four years later in 680 00:39:59,516 --> 00:40:04,236 Speaker 1: two and eighteen with a degree in microbiology. Was it 681 00:40:04,276 --> 00:40:14,436 Speaker 1: a good experience? Best four years of my life. I'm 682 00:40:14,476 --> 00:40:19,996 Speaker 1: Michael Lewis. Thanks for listening to Against the Rules. Against 683 00:40:19,996 --> 00:40:22,916 Speaker 1: the Rules is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. The 684 00:40:22,996 --> 00:40:27,156 Speaker 1: show's produced by Audrey Dilling and Katherine Girodo, with research 685 00:40:27,196 --> 00:40:31,436 Speaker 1: assistance from Lydia Jane Cott and ZOOE Wynn. Our editor 686 00:40:31,596 --> 00:40:35,756 Speaker 1: is Julia Barton. Mio o'bell is our executive producer. Our 687 00:40:35,876 --> 00:40:39,396 Speaker 1: theme was composed by Nick Brittell, with additional scoring by 688 00:40:39,436 --> 00:40:43,516 Speaker 1: Stellwagen Sephonette. We got fact checked by Beth Johnson. Our 689 00:40:43,556 --> 00:40:46,476 Speaker 1: show was recorded by Tofa Ruth and Trey Schultz at 690 00:40:46,516 --> 00:40:50,276 Speaker 1: Northgate Studios in Berkeley and thanks to bb Dio San 691 00:40:50,316 --> 00:40:55,436 Speaker 1: Francisco for providing audio for this episode. As always, thanks 692 00:40:55,476 --> 00:41:07,796 Speaker 1: to Pushkin's founders Jacob Weisberg and Malcolm Gladwell. Oh I 693 00:41:07,836 --> 00:41:11,876 Speaker 1: almost forgot La Sasser the high school senior we began with. 694 00:41:12,556 --> 00:41:15,436 Speaker 1: I checked in with her after her acceptance letters started 695 00:41:15,476 --> 00:41:19,316 Speaker 1: to roll in. So tell me since we last talked, 696 00:41:19,516 --> 00:41:24,276 Speaker 1: which you've heard? Um, So I've gotten into a think 697 00:41:24,316 --> 00:41:30,716 Speaker 1: about eleven schools. Um, do you want me to list them? Yes? Okay, okay, 698 00:41:30,996 --> 00:41:34,756 Speaker 1: you got, you got. You got into eleven schools. Yes, 699 00:41:35,356 --> 00:41:40,276 Speaker 1: c SU Sanbardino, c SULA, and CSU Long Beach. Um. 700 00:41:40,316 --> 00:41:47,876 Speaker 1: I got into CBU, UM, University of Redlands, Whittier, UM 701 00:41:48,116 --> 00:41:52,396 Speaker 1: UC Riverside, UC San Diego UCLA, which was really awesome, 702 00:41:53,036 --> 00:41:57,316 Speaker 1: and NYU. Oh. I also got into San Diego State University, 703 00:41:57,876 --> 00:41:59,636 Speaker 1: but I didn't apply to that one, so that was 704 00:41:59,756 --> 00:42:02,756 Speaker 1: like really surprising. I didn't know how that worked. So 705 00:42:02,796 --> 00:42:05,196 Speaker 1: you got into ten schools that are in California and 706 00:42:05,276 --> 00:42:10,796 Speaker 1: one in New York. UM, that's fantastic. Congratulations, thank you,