Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done.
Speaker 4: Done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up an SVU
Speaker 4: podcast on kerk Blank.
Speaker 3: I sound like a newscaster and I.
Speaker 2: Could do it too, And I'm Liza Traeger and today
Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about Law and Order SVU,
Speaker 2: the crimes that they're based on, and a guest from
Speaker 2: the episode.
Speaker 1: But first, weather is Okay, what's up. It's been a
Speaker 1: big week. I feel like you've.
Speaker 3: Been out in the Basketbler.
Speaker 2: I just don't remember anything of her at all at
Speaker 2: any times.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know, whenever we get together, I'm always like, what
Speaker 1: have I been doing?
Speaker 3: I know I've been doing things. What have I been doing?
Speaker 2: I don't know what date it is, what day it is,
Speaker 2: I'm just no, but yeah, it's been it's been good.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't want to start on this negative of a note,
Speaker 2: but my algorithm's feeding it to me and I keep
Speaker 2: skipping it. I refuse to watch it. I refuse. I
Speaker 2: know it's gonna make me mad.
Speaker 3: So is it key?
Speaker 1: Is it the Chief Sky? Yeah, it's the Chief Sky.
Speaker 1: I knew it that. We've already had a bunch of
Speaker 1: people message us about it.
Speaker 2: But I wonder if it wasn't for Taylor dating a chief,
Speaker 2: would we even know about this? Or is the speech
Speaker 2: so egregious it would have spread? But he also mentions
Speaker 2: Taylor in it. He says my teammate's girlfriend or something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like, if it wasn't the tailor connect, would we know
Speaker 2: about this man?
Speaker 3: Probably not? Would we hear about the speech?
Speaker 2: Or was the speech egregious enough to tell college actually
Speaker 2: they should be homemakers?
Speaker 1: Yes, I think so. I think it would have gone semiviral.
Speaker 1: But the Tailor's definitely posish the ball.
Speaker 3: I mean, the dis it's so discussed.
Speaker 2: That's why the algorithm every other explore thing is like,
Speaker 2: don't you want to watch this? And I'm like, I
Speaker 2: do not want to watch this? Yeah, I refuse to
Speaker 2: watch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was definitely on my list of things to
Speaker 1: talk about with you today, but you beat me to
Speaker 1: the punch.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He seems like a absolute clown, like a moron, like talking
Speaker 1: about like murdering unborn babies like a like a just
Speaker 1: a full moron, Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: He came to like just make some points that have
Speaker 2: nothing to do with inspiring graduates except to be biggots
Speaker 2: like I don't and to tell women don't use your degree,
Speaker 2: like I just don't know it. I don't get it.
Speaker 2: And the NFL, well, I saw a tweet that was
Speaker 2: like I love that Colin Kaepernick blackballed forever, kicked out
Speaker 2: of the league, like truly fucked over forever because of
Speaker 2: his beliefs. And yet this motherfucker could keep on kicking
Speaker 2: right right, Did the NFL not want to check his speech?
Speaker 2: No one wanted to do that. That's who's representing your
Speaker 2: organization to the future, like fuck you. But this could
Speaker 2: also be a conservative Catholic college, like I went to
Speaker 2: a school I.
Speaker 3: Believe it's called Benedictine or something like that.
Speaker 2: Let me like because I went to an evalangelical Christian
Speaker 2: college surprise to those who might have forgotten. But there
Speaker 2: were girls there that were planning on like they would
Speaker 2: get married while they were in school. No plans to
Speaker 2: do anything but like make children, and yeah, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of them fifteen twenty years later are
Speaker 2: really feeling the weight of their mistakes. Yeah, marrying a
Speaker 2: douche lord at twenty two, I don't know if that
Speaker 2: guarantees a great life.
Speaker 1: Having kids right out of college. I mean, yes, go
Speaker 1: do that if you want, do that, if you want, Like,
Speaker 1: more power to you. Some people want to be young moms,
Speaker 1: and I get.
Speaker 3: That, but there's no choice here.
Speaker 2: This is what this person is saying at the commencement speech,
Speaker 2: which the best thing you can do is wash my clothes,
Speaker 2: cook my dinner, and raise my kids while I fulfill
Speaker 2: my dreams. That and so that's what I mean. Like
Speaker 2: all these religious girls, like you're indoctrinated, you're going to
Speaker 2: this school. You marry this guy who's been taught he's
Speaker 2: the center of the universe and only he, and he matters,
Speaker 2: Like there's no way if you grow at all or
Speaker 2: see the world, you could just stay sheltered and want it.
Speaker 2: But like, there's no way. These women in their thirties
Speaker 2: and forties are not like, what have I this, I've
Speaker 2: wasted my life. Yeah, washing this man's like house while
Speaker 2: he doesn't think I should follow my dreams in any way.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like it's.
Speaker 1: Crazy all of a success was made possible because a
Speaker 1: girl I met in banned class back in middle school
Speaker 1: would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace
Speaker 1: one of the most important titles of all homemaker.
Speaker 3: Just get out of my fucking feed, dude. I but
Speaker 3: that's what's crazy too.
Speaker 2: It's like so saying out loud, and with most men,
Speaker 2: they would not have any of the things they have
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for a woman doing unpaid labor for you.
Speaker 2: And yet they devalue want to take all right, so
Speaker 2: like they do not value you, yet they still admit
Speaker 2: they can't have a life without you, Like I do
Speaker 2: not understand it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh a goes.
Speaker 1: My wife would tell you that her life truly started
Speaker 1: when she began living her vocation as a wife and
Speaker 1: a mother.
Speaker 3: This is just not it's just you are for a college,
Speaker 3: this is for a church.
Speaker 2: This is a sermon, this is not this is not
Speaker 2: for college graduates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just it's kind of mind blowing. It
Speaker 1: feels like this is a college speech from like nineteen forty,
Speaker 1: Like it's just really wild.
Speaker 2: But that's what we're doing. We're living in a aggressive society.
Speaker 2: We are seeing society regress, like we just are We're losing.
Speaker 1: He says to them, I bet you guys are all
Speaker 1: some of you could go on to be successful in
Speaker 1: your careers, but I bet you're all the most excited
Speaker 1: about marriage and kids. And it's like, fuck off, Like
Speaker 1: it's just so gross to just reduce women.
Speaker 3: To that that's all they are to guys like that graduate. Yes,
Speaker 3: it's like it's the wrong place. Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what bet Benedictine College is,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to go ahead and guess it's a
Speaker 1: very faith based college. And uh, like I'm sure they
Speaker 1: were like thrilled for him to say all this shit.
Speaker 1: It says it's a private liberal arts college. I guess
Speaker 1: liberal arts is used loosely.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, it says it's a Catholic. It's a Catholic
Speaker 3: liberal arts college.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we got a Catholic Yeah. Sorry the first
Speaker 1: Uh it's in Kansas. Yeah, I don't know, it's it's bullshit.
Speaker 2: But and it's like, you're a fucking kicker. I just
Speaker 2: hope the worst for him, I really do. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. All of these women,
Speaker 2: if anything happens to you, they're not going to be
Speaker 2: there for you, right, They're not going to be there
Speaker 2: through your illness or through changes, or when you're depressed
Speaker 2: and don't want to clean. Like they are into you
Speaker 2: for a service that you are providing. They are entitled
Speaker 2: to Yeah, they are entitled to this. They're not like, wow,
Speaker 2: look at everything she's doing. It's like, oh, you're not
Speaker 2: doing this. I'm gonna my love is conditional on you
Speaker 2: doing I was.
Speaker 1: Gonna say, if like the wife gets sick, the wife
Speaker 1: gets like depressed and can't keep up with her you know,
Speaker 1: household duties, Let's see how long these kind of dudes
Speaker 1: stick around. But wait, I wanted to bring up this
Speaker 1: wild thing that I saw.
Speaker 3: Did you hear? Because I'm I don't need to start
Speaker 3: my day in a rage. Well I've just been.
Speaker 1: I saw this thing about how two beauty queens have
Speaker 1: recently resigned.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen any of this. No, no,
Speaker 3: not at all, but okay, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Taylor was in Paris, so that was a lot,
Speaker 2: and and vander Pump reunion and like summerhow it's like
Speaker 2: my explore page is Bravo and Taylor. I don't know
Speaker 2: these beauty queens, and I don't know say snuck in
Speaker 2: that speech, but well so.
Speaker 1: This woman stepped down as Miss USA twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: and then really quickly after this other girl stepped down
Speaker 1: as I'm sorry, Miss teen USA, and everybody's like, what's
Speaker 1: going on? But Miss USA released a statement, and pageant
Speaker 1: fans discovered that if you look at the first letter
Speaker 1: of every word in her statement, it spells out I
Speaker 1: am silenced, which I thought was very SVU, very like
Speaker 1: what's happening? And apparently like the woman who owns the
Speaker 1: organization is very kirsty, aali and drop dead gorgeous, like
Speaker 1: a very you know, mean and like not not.
Speaker 2: Does the mom are speaking out the moment? Yeah, nightmare totally.
Speaker 1: And it's like that, I guess it's them all within
Speaker 1: the Miss Universe organization. And like one the miss teens said,
Speaker 1: my personal value is no longer fully aligned with the
Speaker 1: direction of the organization. But then this girl, like that's
Speaker 1: pretty coincident, coincidental if that's not a hidden message like
Speaker 1: that way she is, you know, so.
Speaker 3: Cloaked under silence. No, this is like legit. I can't.
Speaker 3: I mean, I want to read all of this right now.
Speaker 1: I know they basically I mean, i'll uh, I'll put
Speaker 1: like the Today Show article in the show notes for
Speaker 1: today's episode if we still can, Casey and you guys
Speaker 1: can like read about this. But it is like a
Speaker 1: wild I just was like, wow, this is like a movie,
Speaker 1: like what's happening? A code in an Instagram caption? That's
Speaker 1: I mean, it's also it's also very tailor uh with.
Speaker 3: I feel like she leaves codes. Who knew?
Speaker 2: And now I guess I guess from far away, I
Speaker 2: guess we could have known there might be some issues
Speaker 2: with yes, the beaut an industry, if you were listening
Speaker 2: to this and you did not get tickets to my
Speaker 2: Netflix taping Saturday the twenty fifth, I'm doing a show
Speaker 2: at five pm, which I don't know if that makes
Speaker 2: you feel good or bad, but it's at it.
Speaker 3: It is at five at Union Hall in Brooklyn, all right?
Speaker 1: And then is there any chance of anybody coming to
Speaker 1: your tapings?
Speaker 3: Are there gonna be door seats? Are there gonna be
Speaker 3: any released? Yeah, there's gonna be some release.
Speaker 2: I believe, like we have to figure out the production,
Speaker 2: how it's going to look with the cameras and get
Speaker 2: into the space more one more time because we have
Speaker 2: to kill certain seats and once that's solidified, we'll be
Speaker 2: able to release more or not.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, got it, got it. So stay tuned.
Speaker 3: You still might have a chance. Yeah. Wait.
Speaker 1: Also, one of our listeners, Aresley who I who We Love,
Speaker 1: we mentioned last week. She's getting back, she's getting mentions.
Speaker 1: She sent me this interview with gold Have you seen
Speaker 1: it before? It's this interview with Goldiehan talking about Death
Speaker 1: Becomes Her and she gives me She says they shot
Speaker 1: a different ending for Death Becomes Her and that it
Speaker 1: like didn't test well or something, and so they shot
Speaker 1: the one that we.
Speaker 3: See, so like, was it okay? So like, if you've.
Speaker 1: Seen Death Becomes Her, you know the end of it
Speaker 1: is at they're at Bruce Willis's funeral. They look crazy,
Speaker 1: like their faces have been all fucked up because they've
Speaker 1: had all this like work done and they've been spackling
Speaker 1: themselves together, but they can't die. And then at the
Speaker 1: end they're fighting and they fall down these stairs and
Speaker 1: they fall into like a million pieces, but they're still alive.
Speaker 1: Goldiehan gives this like great interview where she talks about
Speaker 1: how the original ending is them like somewhere abroad and
Speaker 1: they're together and they look perfect, they look exactly the same,
Speaker 1: and they're so bored and they're just like, what do
Speaker 1: you want to do? Oh, you want to go to London?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've been to London? What about Paris?
Speaker 1: Paris again? And it's just like more of a calm
Speaker 1: about like is that what you want? Like when you
Speaker 1: get eternal youth? Like do you want to just be
Speaker 1: alive forever? And they only have each other. Everyone else
Speaker 1: they know has died, like and they hate each other
Speaker 1: now and that's the ending that they did. And she
Speaker 1: likes that ending better because she's like, I think it
Speaker 1: was more spoke to the point of the movie than
Speaker 1: what But she said, you know, people reshoot endings all
Speaker 1: the time, and that's just what they did. And you know,
Speaker 1: but she liked the original.
Speaker 3: I want to see it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm it honestly drives me crazy that I
Speaker 2: know about this now, but I think that the comment
Speaker 2: is still the same. Yeah, like either way they're suffering.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes that's true, But I just think the other one,
Speaker 1: I guess was like it's like a little bit more
Speaker 1: of like a subtle thing because it's like, oh, they
Speaker 1: still look great, they still look young.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: But then it's like, but what's that like when everybody
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna watch everybody you know die forever,
Speaker 1: like and just be with this one other person who's
Speaker 1: like your nemesis.
Speaker 3: Maybe Isabella Rossellini for sure.
Speaker 2: That would have been haunting, and they could have they
Speaker 2: probably shot across. I mean, they have to release it.
Speaker 2: I know they need to release it. We need to
Speaker 2: start a campaign.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, I said it to my friend Alan. I
Speaker 3: was like, have you seen this? He was like yes,
Speaker 3: Oh my god. And can I tell you that? I
Speaker 3: got Death Becomes Her earrings? What are they? Are they
Speaker 3: the potion bottle?
Speaker 2: No, it's it's a photo of the two of them
Speaker 2: and it's shaped as them.
Speaker 3: I bought it on my block. Love That Love That.
Speaker 1: Jared got me a DVD of that at Dwayne Read Once.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed.
Speaker 2: They also had earrings that were the Wet bandits ooh,
Speaker 2: and some other I don't remember the other things. But
Speaker 2: they had some fun, some fun, some fun. Ways to well,
Speaker 2: I have huge news for everyone listening. Well, you know,
Speaker 2: I saw my business manager and we did the whole
Speaker 2: pie chart, breakdown, plans, little everything, and then he goes
Speaker 2: and we really have no problem with your spending.
Speaker 3: You go, there's no cause for concern. It's fine.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, they go, this one average is high, but
Speaker 2: that's the tailor tickets and he's like, I don't think
Speaker 2: that'll be happening again.
Speaker 1: And mon yeah and that was that amazing. Congratulations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can keep getting my little drinks and
Speaker 2: doing my classes and uh, it's a thrill.
Speaker 3: That's amazing, gongras.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like people act and I act like
Speaker 2: I am just so irresponsible and it's so great to
Speaker 2: have a full blown professional with all of the.
Speaker 3: Map keeping an eye. You're actually fine.
Speaker 2: Way, I talked about the Starbucks thing on this last week, right,
Speaker 2: yes the audience.
Speaker 3: Well I had it. Oh yes, the boba inspired drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's berry with raspb It tastes like a melted popsicle,
Speaker 2: okay to see Yeah no, non no, I melted popsicle
Speaker 2: with not too sweet. But I wouldn't get it again.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I didn't finish it, but then
Speaker 2: I got really high, and then I didn't realize what
Speaker 2: was happening. But then I was just sucking up the
Speaker 2: leftover boba one by one. But I was with someone
Speaker 2: who just watched me for probably ten minutes in silence,
Speaker 2: suck up the boba. And then when I got out
Speaker 2: of the trance, I was like, I'm so sorry you
Speaker 2: had to watch that, and they were like, yeah, that
Speaker 2: was crazy.
Speaker 3: But are they the kind you were telling me about
Speaker 3: the ones that pop?
Speaker 2: It was and I liked them, and you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like, what if I get a pineapple refresher
Speaker 2: and ask for the raspberry boat popping boba things they
Speaker 2: have with the pearls because it's the berry that doesn't
Speaker 2: really do it for me, So.
Speaker 3: Just stick a little scoop of the pearls in.
Speaker 2: I bet they could do that. Yeah, we'll see. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna try that next time.
Speaker 3: But congrats. I hope it's a hit.
Speaker 1: Me saying okay, let's I think we should. We can
Speaker 1: get started, but like, uh, do you have more dates
Speaker 1: coming up? I mean, oh, I do.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be in New Orleans June seventh and eighth,
Speaker 2: and then I'm gonna be in Kansas City June fourteen, fifteen,
Speaker 2: sixteen and then that's.
Speaker 3: That amazing a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can go to That's messed up live
Speaker 1: dot com that has the Liza's website link that takes
Speaker 1: you to all her ticket links. It also has our
Speaker 1: merch link Babies, you can get some of our merch
Speaker 1: that's up and you can also find our promo code
Speaker 1: link that is up there and that leads to all
Speaker 1: of our promo codes for our ads. In case you
Speaker 1: guys aren't shopping for birthdays, weddings, any occasions, we have
Speaker 1: lots of stuff that we have promo codes for.
Speaker 3: We want you guys to save and.
Speaker 2: And thank you for all the attention for our hit
Speaker 2: reel slash TikTok.
Speaker 1: If you have If you guys have idea of scenes
Speaker 1: that you think would be funny yeah to do for
Speaker 1: our TikTok and our insta, we are down, so like,
Speaker 1: send us your suggestions of we obviously like to do
Speaker 1: some of the campier scenes, so send them send them
Speaker 1: our way.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, please, not a horrific yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: want to do?
Speaker 2: Like, ah, should we do?
Speaker 3: You're a nine year old girl? You're describing your attack
Speaker 3: like I don't want that? Should we do? Avatar you're
Speaker 3: so old? Should we do that? Or turn on the sun?
Speaker 3: Turn on this s turn on the sun?
Speaker 2: All right, my god, this is exciting. We're gonna get
Speaker 2: into it. We're gonna get into it. Okay, we're starting
Speaker 2: the episode Enjoy, Enjoy. Okay, So we're gonna do the
Speaker 2: episode Snitch, which I honestly can't believe it took till
Speaker 2: season nine to have a snitch titled episode.
Speaker 3: That's a quick, simple word. Yes, and I'm going to
Speaker 3: get into more about where it comes from.
Speaker 2: Ooh, okay, I love that origin story of Snitch. Okay,
Speaker 2: so this came out in two thousand and seven. We
Speaker 2: open up on some eco friends of New York and
Speaker 2: they're going to clean up the East River and there's
Speaker 2: a dork trying to pick up another volunteer who catches
Speaker 2: on and is like, do you ask out all the volunteers?
Speaker 3: He also asked her out to sushi.
Speaker 2: Which in front of a body of water filled with
Speaker 2: garbage is kind of an lol.
Speaker 1: Also, it's like, I love how this show is like,
Speaker 1: even if you volunteer and you have a kind heart,
Speaker 1: someone is still going to hit on you unwantedly, Like
Speaker 1: you are going to still feel the advances of Dorky
Speaker 1: Men because they've done multiple episodes where people are cleaning
Speaker 1: shit up and some guys like, anyway you want to
Speaker 1: hang out after this? Like it's like, can we not
Speaker 1: just be charitable and not have to do no?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like that when people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know how to meet people or I don't
Speaker 2: know what to do, people are like, go play kickball
Speaker 2: or volunteer. We kind of encourage sure, but this guy
Speaker 2: feels like he's coming at it. There's another one too,
Speaker 2: There's another It was like in it was like in
Speaker 2: the Erica Christiansen episode where the guy you know, and
Speaker 2: like everybody's like, oh, he asks everybody out. It's like,
Speaker 2: we're not safe, but no, do volunteer, do play kickball?
Speaker 2: You're safe, You're safe. But I also saw a meme
Speaker 2: and it was a giant tray of sushi on the
Speaker 2: beach and someone tweeted, damn, you're gonna eat them in
Speaker 2: front of their family, and I really liked that.
Speaker 3: I want sushi right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, So as they approach with their six trying to
Speaker 2: pick up bags of trash out of the water, they
Speaker 2: see two feet she's tied up. Melinda's on the scene
Speaker 2: very quick and she's explaining what's what to Elliott and Olivia.
Speaker 2: So a black teen is found in a trash bag
Speaker 2: with her ankles bound together with a cable and she
Speaker 2: was dead before she was put in the water. She
Speaker 2: has gashes on her head an arm and she it
Speaker 2: was hit with something, and Melinda thinks also abused for
Speaker 2: a long time because she has a lot of genital scarring.
Speaker 2: We find a guy laying on a piece of cardboard
Speaker 2: with an empty wallet and no id, and he is
Speaker 2: asleep and he wakes up and punches Stabler in the face,
Speaker 2: which I love, and it be comes into a chase scene.
Speaker 2: This guy climbs over a fence and he falls over
Speaker 2: the other side and like collapses, but then Benson just
Speaker 2: walks around the fence and it's like a cartoon.
Speaker 3: It was he did not have to climb it.
Speaker 2: But he is still breathing, and Benson's hopeful that he
Speaker 2: lives so they can get him to confess. And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: the man laying down passed out at the scene of
Speaker 2: the crime, did it?
Speaker 1: Like that was my thought too, So you guys are
Speaker 1: so positive. It's this guy who did it and then
Speaker 1: took a nap on a piece of cardboard.
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: You know, I love a Red Herringer too, But come on,
Speaker 2: we're not We're not fools. So we go into the credits.
Speaker 2: We meet the suspect back up at the hospital. He's
Speaker 2: cuffed to the bed with no memory of anything. He
Speaker 2: has a history of picking up hookers, that's what their words.
Speaker 2: And then they show him the photo of the teen
Speaker 2: and say, is this to you. He has no idea
Speaker 2: who she is, and Sailor's trying to be a good guy, like,
Speaker 2: I get it. She fell in the water on accident.
Speaker 2: You can tell us that. And that works on him,
Speaker 2: which is wild because she was bound and did not
Speaker 2: fall in on accident. He starts to talk. It's all
Speaker 2: a blur, he says. Stabler is like, just to be clear,
Speaker 2: tell me who she is, and he shows her the
Speaker 2: photo and the guy goes, she was so beautiful. You
Speaker 2: know I have a weakness for younger women, and then
Speaker 2: he asks I killed her. So we get to walk
Speaker 2: and talk down a hospital hallway and the doc is like, you, guys,
Speaker 2: he's an epileptic. He was passed out. He did not
Speaker 2: do this. The doc is like, that's why he has
Speaker 2: no idea. He can't get a driver's license. He probably
Speaker 2: got startled and attacked you because you were just standing
Speaker 2: over him as he woke up from an epileptic situation.
Speaker 2: And right when they wake up, they're prone to suggestions.
Speaker 2: So his confession doesn't he work? Like, shut up? She's like,
Speaker 2: did you ask leading questions? And Benson quickly says the
Speaker 2: evidence was leading. He had scratches all over his face
Speaker 2: and hands, and she's like, yeah, probably from the seizure.
Speaker 2: But Stalelor doesn't care. He's like, that's our number one suspect.
Speaker 2: Send him to jail. I don't care. The doctor is annoyed.
Speaker 3: She sighs.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler are at home base and Finn is
Speaker 2: now telling them this is not your guy, and Chesterlake
Speaker 2: is there. It's one of his episodes, Dune Done Okay.
Speaker 2: Finn says that the cable used on her feet is
Speaker 2: for connecting buildings to cable TV, and there were three
Speaker 2: outages this morning, and one of those somebody cut fifteen
Speaker 2: feet out of a cable out of a back alley
Speaker 2: around one hundred and sixty ninth Street, and so that's
Speaker 2: where they think the attack happened, and Chester explains the
Speaker 2: title flow could have taken the body up there and
Speaker 2: that's when she was found in the morning, because not
Speaker 2: only as an architecture expert.
Speaker 3: He does know about title flows. The Tides.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, is that why Tide is tied like the Detergent.
Speaker 3: Probably, Like are they trying to like yeah, I think
Speaker 3: they're trying to evoke water imagery? Yeah for sure. Wow. Cool.
Speaker 2: So I'm trying to think of any other brand like
Speaker 2: Tide does have such a choke hold on the industry.
Speaker 2: Name another brand, Well, there's all.
Speaker 1: There's a person as we know, is the mister Marishka Hargate.
Speaker 3: Is this person spokespan? There's gain? Wow, you know them all?
Speaker 3: But I will I'm a Tide girl and I have
Speaker 3: always been. No, we we.
Speaker 2: Were a tied household. I don't even think we entertained
Speaker 2: another brand. That's why I'm like so confused. I do
Speaker 2: remember that the little Bear, the Snuggie Bear, but I
Speaker 2: think that's a fabric softener, which I think, yes, passe, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think people use that anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I use bear. The bear had its own snuggie
Speaker 1: snuggle snuggle. Yeah, snuggle, just straight up snuggle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right. Yeah, Bounce was just circles. I feel
Speaker 3: like Bounce a bear was cute, though you wanted to
Speaker 3: snuggle him.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I loved that bear, not as much as I love
Speaker 2: the toilet paper bears that just like, fully are okay
Speaker 2: having pieces of like toilet paper stuck on their butts
Speaker 2: on camera.
Speaker 3: They're just sitting in the woods. They're like, this is
Speaker 3: our lives. Get into it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this is okay. So this has to
Speaker 2: do with our podcast. So I don't know if you
Speaker 2: saw on social media, there's been a like a trend
Speaker 2: where women ask, well not women, the question is, if
Speaker 2: you're walking in the woods, would you rather run into
Speaker 2: a bear or a man? And every woman says a bear,
Speaker 2: Like every woman is like bear, bear, bear, And then
Speaker 2: of course I'm in the comments and like the men
Speaker 2: get so defensive and mad and like trying to explain
Speaker 2: how a bear is dangerous, like we don't know the
Speaker 2: dangers of bear.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah exactly, which makes me laugh.
Speaker 2: They're like a claw and a jaw and they could
Speaker 2: all run and I'm like, yeah, yeah, no, we're not
Speaker 2: confused at what a bear can bring to the game,
Speaker 2: like we know we are alive.
Speaker 1: We've also just seen twenty five seasons of Law and
Speaker 1: Order res for you.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I got into it with one guy. I
Speaker 2: was like, no, no, I know what a bear does.
Speaker 2: I go, but a bear might eat me or kill
Speaker 2: me or leave me to bleed out slowly. A man
Speaker 2: can hold me in his basement in Ohio for two decades.
Speaker 5: Yeay.
Speaker 2: I do not want to be tortured Colleen's standstyle for
Speaker 2: even a fucking week in your basement.
Speaker 3: I would rather get eaten by a bear.
Speaker 2: And I don't get why this won't penetrate the men
Speaker 2: on the internet, Like I'm sure other you know, the
Speaker 2: men that are listening to this with their girlfriends, they're
Speaker 2: on our side.
Speaker 1: But we talked about this when I was on hysteria
Speaker 1: recently and I'm oh, wow, okay, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: bear for sure, because at least with Bear there's like mnemonics.
Speaker 1: There's like Bear, there's like brown, lay down, black, like
Speaker 1: staying back like you know, life right back, like there's
Speaker 1: all like at least I know, white is like good night,
Speaker 1: good night.
Speaker 3: Yeah you're dead. If you see a polar bear, you're
Speaker 3: fucking dead.
Speaker 2: But I've unfortunately done that poem maybe seven times on
Speaker 2: this podcast.
Speaker 3: That was really proud that I learned it, so I
Speaker 3: probably only know it from you.
Speaker 1: But I was like, at least with bears, there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a key with men, we just don't know.
Speaker 2: And then a bunch of the men in the comments
Speaker 2: are offended. They're like, I can't believe this is what
Speaker 2: we think of all the good guys out there. And okay, well,
Speaker 2: it's also not about it's a question and this is
Speaker 2: what the women picked. There's no argument, like you could
Speaker 2: pick bear. You guys can pick bear, Like that's the game.
Speaker 2: You pick one or the other, and that's your personal reasoning.
Speaker 2: This isn't like an academic study that's trying to be
Speaker 2: proven for everyone. And if you would rather fight a man,
Speaker 2: that's great, that's great. Maybe you do Kravma God, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, Ronda Rousey, I'm sure is picking man? Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: Like I'm sure.
Speaker 2: If you're a dude who knows how to be in
Speaker 2: the work, maybe you'd pick a man. I'm just saying,
Speaker 2: experts in sex crimes, I would say bear.
Speaker 3: Bear, bear maybear.
Speaker 2: But if it was a river otter. That would be
Speaker 2: a longer discussion.
Speaker 3: No, I can't. We can't get into the rivers.
Speaker 2: Because the river otters also like an incest rape, so
Speaker 2: like the evil river otters, I can't. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: oh my god. River otters are the men of the
Speaker 2: animal kingdom. I think I just figured it out. They
Speaker 2: will steal your baby.
Speaker 3: Okay, So okay, we're back to this. We're back to this.
Speaker 2: The flow of the river brought her to this place,
Speaker 2: and with the tide she got stuck with all the
Speaker 2: bags in this canal whatever. So Stabler can't admit he's
Speaker 2: wrong though, and he's like, but are we sure she
Speaker 2: wasn't killed down there? And I really it's one of
Speaker 2: my biggest pet peeves when the detectives do not listen
Speaker 2: to the evidence and the other experts like it bothers
Speaker 2: the shit out of me. And Finn's like, okay, even
Speaker 2: if she did and was killed there, it wasn't Jesse.
Speaker 3: We have security cam footage of him.
Speaker 2: He's passed out sleeping outside of Adega till ten thirty
Speaker 2: in the morning.
Speaker 3: She was found at ten am. So we visit Melinda and.
Speaker 2: We find out that she was killed with something made
Speaker 2: of wood, and there's splinters in her scalp from rough
Speaker 2: hone oak.
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe I wrote it wrong.
Speaker 2: So it's some kind of oak, So from either a
Speaker 2: Homer model or construction site is what Melinda thinks. And
Speaker 2: she was wrong about the scarring for earlier. It's not
Speaker 2: just of use. It's an improperly healed female circumcision.
Speaker 3: This girl was mutilated.
Speaker 2: Then we get a learning info from Melinda that one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million other women also have this in Africa,
Speaker 2: the Middle Eastern parts of Asia, done safely, and the
Speaker 2: best case scenario is a woman loses all sexual sensation,
Speaker 2: but many of these women die from infection. And Stabler,
Speaker 2: like us, probably doesn't even understand why a woman would
Speaker 2: agree to this. And he's the voice of the people here.
Speaker 2: Melinda says, tradition, which the Internet calls peer pressure from
Speaker 2: the past.
Speaker 3: So fuck you.
Speaker 1: That is a great name for tradition in a lot
Speaker 1: of cases, just the past peer pressuring you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that nice? I don't know you talk with it,
Speaker 3: but I that's all it is. Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why because because someone said so, Someone who died two
Speaker 1: hundred years ago said so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like we don't even remember two generations AGO's names.
Speaker 2: But we have to like cut off our clips like
Speaker 2: it's crazy. So and honestly you can write so us.
Speaker 2: I will not be culturally sensitive at all. When I
Speaker 2: talk about general mutilation, I think, are you going to
Speaker 2: get into it?
Speaker 3: No you're not? Oh okay, not eat into a deep dive.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. No, because I talked about
Speaker 1: a couple. No, no, no, I got into a specific case. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I will not be touching on that. Also, other episodes
Speaker 1: of the show have touched on this as well, right,
Speaker 1: they love talking about this on this show.
Speaker 2: Well, because I think it's just something that is hard
Speaker 2: to get behind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know you don't want to eat pork.
Speaker 2: I can understand you want to cut off your daughter's clip.
Speaker 2: I have a few questions, like I don't I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, but I mean I guess people like would
Speaker 1: would say, well, what about circumcision, and it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: But for I feel like it's everyone's gonna come because like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I watched a documentary the same way, right, Well,
Speaker 1: they might Okay, I did watch a Netflix had a
Speaker 1: male circumcision documentary.
Speaker 3: I obviously watched it.
Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the men are like white
Speaker 2: dudes who don't have a struggle, so they they're like
Speaker 2: out there marching and being like someone took the tip
Speaker 2: of my dick off, you know, like they really want
Speaker 2: to feel like they've been wrong in this world.
Speaker 3: I I think a lot.
Speaker 2: Of people don't do it anymore, Like for a lot
Speaker 2: of ours and stuff, like, I think it's kind of
Speaker 2: old school. One of our friends used to say, like
Speaker 2: all her friends were casually Jewish until they had a boy,
Speaker 2: and then it's like, well, I'm Jewish. I have to
Speaker 2: I have to chop up dick. Like you don't keep
Speaker 2: koshert you don't do the holidays, you don't temple, You're
Speaker 2: like gott to, I have to do it. I mean,
Speaker 2: for Clinn Liz, I think it's I mean, one of
Speaker 2: the theories I heard in the dock was that the
Speaker 2: trauma does stay within the babies, and that's why men
Speaker 2: are our animals because they have all this rage from
Speaker 2: their baby's circumcisions.
Speaker 3: Like that, it does fuck the.
Speaker 2: Nervous system and stuff, but you can still have sexual pleasure.
Speaker 3: Like any argument that compares the two is false.
Speaker 2: Equivalency to prove some sort of point because you can come.
Speaker 3: You can come. It is not fuck up your life.
Speaker 2: I don't think little boys are dying across the globe
Speaker 2: from this from infections. It's not happening to you strapped
Speaker 2: down at thirteen. But you you receive pleasure still at
Speaker 2: the end of the day. One is you will never
Speaker 2: get pleasure from sex, and that is what our society
Speaker 2: needs from you. Or listen, now, you don't have to
Speaker 2: clean under this extra thing of sk you disgusting animal.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2: But my thing that's wild is like most of the
Speaker 2: world has foreskin, yes, and it's just a Jewish thing.
Speaker 2: So I don't understand why America took like seventy percent
Speaker 2: of America's circumcise. So like, I don't understand why the
Speaker 2: Americans took it on so hard when no one else
Speaker 2: does anywhere in the world.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean I have read about how like in like
Speaker 1: the like eighteen hundreds or something like one of the Louis,
Speaker 1: one of the kings had famosis, which is basically when
Speaker 1: your foreskin will not retract, and that's very painful. So
Speaker 1: I wonder if like that was more common and so
Speaker 1: people were just like, oh, let's just do circumcisions to
Speaker 1: avoid femosis. But I don't know, you're it is like
Speaker 1: a trend that caught on. But now I would say
Speaker 1: I would say it's more fifty to fifty now, like
Speaker 1: for new babies that are coming into the world, I
Speaker 1: would say fifty percent of people.
Speaker 3: I know are doing it. In fifty percent are in
Speaker 3: I know an adult man who did it a few
Speaker 3: years ago. Yeah, we yeah, you told me this person. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But like the other thing is too is like when
Speaker 1: I it's I don't know whether it's East coast west coast,
Speaker 1: because on the West coast, it's like none of my
Speaker 1: friends are doing it. When I talked to my whole
Speaker 1: group of college girlfriends, I was like, did you because
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it for when I if I
Speaker 1: had a boy, I was like, did you guys do circumcisions?
Speaker 1: They were like, who doesn't do circumcision? Like they don't
Speaker 1: know anyone who doesn't do it, and they're all just
Speaker 1: like living in the Northeast, so weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know the wasps, they like it, they
Speaker 2: like it, they like it.
Speaker 1: Well, my brother spoke to a pediatric urologist who like
Speaker 1: recommended it, who recommended it for him because my my brother,
Speaker 1: yeah for it, not for his for his son, not
Speaker 1: for him.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about all your other brothers except for
Speaker 2: that one, and I could not it could I didn't
Speaker 2: understand what was happening. And then I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: there is one more in North Carolina. Yes, It's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Why don't they want you to tell that? Listen,
Speaker 2: have we gotten on a couple of sides here?
Speaker 3: We have?
Speaker 1: We have?
Speaker 2: And I just think it's also like bread from different
Speaker 2: places if we're trying to compare the two. Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is this comes out of like control. It's you know,
Speaker 2: it is bad. It's really her yeah agree, so yeah,
Speaker 2: but basically she's saying men won't even court women unless
Speaker 2: they feel no pressure. I mean the whole body. We
Speaker 2: talk about this all the time. This is like the
Speaker 2: core energy of why men are such predators so often
Speaker 2: is like they don't care what the woman wants. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and this is it, like they don't want a woman
Speaker 2: to get pleasure from sex, and that means you're an
Speaker 2: actual woman that you can court, Like that's the court,
Speaker 2: Like that's awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're essentially just like a receptacle for men's
Speaker 1: pleasure and for having children.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why it's fucking different than you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it comes from grossness. Yeah, oh god,
Speaker 2: why are we doing all the stoning and circumcision episodes?
Speaker 2: Really back to that, we really are? They really come
Speaker 2: at us quick? Okay, so they won't they won't court
Speaker 2: women if they can feel pleasure. She also is like,
Speaker 2: I think this happened in the past six months, and
Speaker 2: it is possible that happened in the States because around
Speaker 2: two hundred thousand immigrant girls are at risk even though
Speaker 2: it is illegal in the States. So Stabler, well, also
Speaker 2: with the mail circums, it can go wrong. Yes, and
Speaker 2: I think that's like another thing where it's like.
Speaker 1: You're one of our One of our first episodes about
Speaker 1: the twins was a circumcision going wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Stabler has a friend in immigration, so we go
Speaker 2: visit Agent Williams to get some information on if this
Speaker 2: girl could be one of the two hundred thousand immigrant
Speaker 2: girls who this happens to in the States, and it's flirty, flirty, Okay.
Speaker 2: Williams is into him, and then surprised. She goes, wow,
Speaker 2: hadn't heard from you in a while. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So she's like going through the fingerprints and he drops
Speaker 2: the bomb that he got together back together with his wife,
Speaker 2: and Benson looks like, oh my god, hey get me
Speaker 2: out of here.
Speaker 3: This is a lot. And then the girl Williams is.
Speaker 2: So humiliated because they clearly were fucking during his break.
Speaker 2: So but we do get a match, and the match
Speaker 2: is nikkiel Colombay from Nigeria and she's fifteen and she's
Speaker 2: here in a ninety day family visa that expired six
Speaker 2: months ago. Her aunt is a sponsor, and her name
Speaker 2: is Mira Atume on East one twenty fourth Street and
Speaker 2: Frederick Douglas. So they go off and they're at a
Speaker 2: Nigerian craft storefront kind of vibe, and the girl at
Speaker 2: the front's like, hey, she's actually busy. You can come
Speaker 2: back later. And they're like, we hear a girl crying,
Speaker 2: turn down the fucking music. And now we hear a
Speaker 2: girl full on screaming, and she's screaming, no stop, I
Speaker 2: don't want to do this.
Speaker 3: So I think that's another thing that's yeah, right.
Speaker 2: Even though a baby can't say no, but I feel
Speaker 2: like a teen screaming is the thing.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So then the front desk girl is like, stop, don't
Speaker 2: go there, but doesn't actually try to stop them and
Speaker 2: like at all, like it's so funny.
Speaker 1: She's just like, please stop, don't go in there, in there,
Speaker 1: like in every secretary on this show ever. And so
Speaker 1: then they enter the circumcision moment. There's a lot of candles.
Speaker 2: The women are holding the girl down screaming, and the
Speaker 2: ants like I'm not done yet, and they're like, oh
Speaker 2: you are, lady, shut the fuck up, and so we're
Speaker 2: in cement room bars. She doesn't really deserve much better
Speaker 2: than that, and she doesn't see what the big deal is.
Speaker 2: She's like, well, you know what's up. Why can't we
Speaker 2: chop off parts of a young girl's body? Just millions
Speaker 2: of other girls do it, so why not? And Sailor goes, well,
Speaker 2: welcome to the twenty first century, bitch and mutilation is
Speaker 2: a Class E felony and a federal crime. And she
Speaker 2: thinks it's fine because she's trained and compares herself to
Speaker 2: the circumcision rabbi, so she's under the same umbrella. But also,
Speaker 2: remember when the rumors came out about all the circumcision
Speaker 2: rabbis giving her bees to babies with their little mouths.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I wish that there wasn't the kissing of
Speaker 1: it part, or the licking of the I don't think
Speaker 1: there is.
Speaker 2: I think that's just the perverts that you know, they
Speaker 2: would get along with this woman. Yeah, all of this
Speaker 2: is creepy. I just I don't know. I don't I
Speaker 2: really hate all of this. Basically, they go, no, we
Speaker 2: we hate you. So tell us about Nikki al and
Speaker 2: she says I don't know her, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: you're listed as her aunt, so why are you lying?
Speaker 2: And then she hears that she is dead, and she
Speaker 2: is in shock. She moves so slowly she starts to cry.
Speaker 2: She is actually very sad. She can barely speak. She
Speaker 2: says she hasn't seen Nikki for months, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: from when you mutilated her, and she screams she wanted it.
Speaker 2: It was time for her to become a woman. And
Speaker 2: Benson screams, she was a child. The ant screams maybe
Speaker 2: in America, but in Nigeria fifteen, these girls have seen
Speaker 2: a lifetime. Benson leans in with her sweet bang extreme
Speaker 2: back up cut and says, Oh, we're gonna find out
Speaker 2: all the girls you did this too, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: get your ass. Have fun being in jail for life.
Speaker 2: Sailors like, maybe the court will be Leniya if you
Speaker 2: help us ound. She asks how, and it's quite simple.
Speaker 2: We just need Nikki's address, so I guess then you're free.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So we're at home at one hundred and sixty eighth
Speaker 2: Street and I'm trying to think of like other things
Speaker 2: like genital mutilation that I'm that doesn't make me as angry,
Speaker 2: but I can't think of anything like other cultural shit
Speaker 2: where I'm like, this sucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's probably the worst. I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just trying to see if I'm a hypocrite anywhere,
Speaker 2: and like I'm just trying to figure it out, and
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Lisa is showing me a full length Taylor Swift balloon. Taylor,
Speaker 1: it's lacid, it has it's so floating since Saint Patrick's
Speaker 1: say it, well, it never floated. Oh, but this is
Speaker 1: a month and a half balloon that's still in wa
Speaker 1: hold put it back. I'm gonna take a screen shot.
Speaker 1: We just show everybody put this up. When this episode
Speaker 1: comes out Tailor Lisa and her tailor balloon. It's helping
Speaker 1: cleanse the palette from this female circumcision conversation.
Speaker 3: All right, So we go to the house.
Speaker 2: It's at one hundred and sixty eighth Street and if
Speaker 2: you remember, you know it's it seems like she was
Speaker 2: dropped one hundred and sixty ninth by the cable being
Speaker 2: cut off.
Speaker 3: So we're in the area.
Speaker 2: A short haired woman with gold hoops lets them in,
Speaker 2: and she seems stressed and anxious, but she does admit
Speaker 2: to knowing who Nicky is.
Speaker 3: She's like, yes, I know, Niki is Niki? All right?
Speaker 2: She's like, Nicki lives here, and then she starts screaming
Speaker 2: where is Nicki? So you know, she gets explained that
Speaker 2: Nicki is dead. And then we do hear a door
Speaker 2: slam in the back, so Benson starts jogging from the inside.
Speaker 2: Stabler runs outside to catch this man on the outside.
Speaker 2: He's climbing us, so Matt Wall, he's hopping, he's rolling.
Speaker 2: This is like a very intense physical movement scene. He's
Speaker 2: surrounded by Benson and Stabler in the car in a
Speaker 2: car park area. His hand is broken and fucked, so
Speaker 2: he can't put both arms up, so he's pleading. He's
Speaker 2: very scared. He's like, please shoot me. My arm is fucked.
Speaker 2: But so Ben, so whatever. They listen to him, but
Speaker 2: very mean. Stabler to Benson's like he moves shoot him
Speaker 2: but and then he keeps being like, my arm is broken.
Speaker 3: It hurts.
Speaker 2: Stop but Stabler just up takes it to the back
Speaker 2: anyways to handcuf it fully. So the guy's name is
Speaker 2: Chuck Way, but but Tommy Chuck Way. And he says
Speaker 2: he didn't do anything to her, and he says that
Speaker 2: is my wife, and Benson and Stabler are like fuck.
Speaker 2: This gets even deeper, and then Chuck Way goes, yes,
Speaker 2: this is my wife. They're at the Morgan now and
Speaker 2: he wants to touch her and Benson and Stabler won't
Speaker 2: let him. And he's like, I loved her so much,
Speaker 2: and you know, they're like, she's fifteen, and he goes, well,
Speaker 2: it's legal in New York to marry at fourteen, and
Speaker 2: they say yeah with a judge. And he's like, listen,
Speaker 2: I have all the needed papers, I have everything. And
Speaker 2: then he goes, are you going to interrogate me in
Speaker 2: front of my dead wife. Good point. So they go
Speaker 2: to cement room bars. Yeah, they go to cement room bars,
Speaker 2: and Benson is cold blooded. Your dead wife is a
Speaker 2: fifteen year girl you mutilated. He said she wanted it.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is I just that's that's what's driving
Speaker 2: me crazy too, Like everyone just going, she really wanted
Speaker 2: to do this, like she has a full understanding, Like
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's kind.
Speaker 2: Of like when people are like, yeah, but if you
Speaker 2: choose to be covered head to toe her, if you
Speaker 2: choose to stay at home, or you choose all these things,
Speaker 2: then it should be about choice. But we're denying the
Speaker 2: reality that they don't actually have a choice because if
Speaker 2: you don't live that lifesele, you're like kicked out of
Speaker 2: your family, or you can't be in the like you
Speaker 2: don't know any different. There's just so many things where
Speaker 2: we pretend it's choice.
Speaker 1: But then also it's been a bit of a brainwashing
Speaker 1: since birth that this is what's going to happen when
Speaker 1: you become a woman, and don't you want to become
Speaker 1: a woman, and this and that, like she probably didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was until it was actually happening to her,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, agree, it's it's like an illusion of choice to
Speaker 2: defend these things, and yeah, they don't actually have choice,
Speaker 2: so stop it. Okay, so you know, but he goes,
Speaker 2: you can't force Nikki to do anything, and then they go, well,
Speaker 2: someone forced her into the river, so they're really being
Speaker 2: funny about this, really a sad situation.
Speaker 3: Sabler does a theory.
Speaker 2: He goes, you brought a fourteen year old over here
Speaker 2: to marry her, and she realizes, fuck, I don't want
Speaker 2: to be with you, and she tried to escape and
Speaker 2: you killed her. And he's like, I have a non
Speaker 2: working arm in what world? Benson goes, well, your right
Speaker 2: arm looks pretty good. He's shocked. He's dumbfounded, and he goes,
Speaker 2: you know what, lawyer. They keep trying to talk to him,
Speaker 2: so Craigan breaks in and goes, you need to leave,
Speaker 2: but he does warn Chuck Way. They're like, He's like,
Speaker 2: we have a warrant, so we will be searching your home.
Speaker 2: Craigan is like, his alibi checked out. He's found entering
Speaker 2: a shop at seven am. But the detectives are like,
Speaker 2: he could do it. All this is bs and his
Speaker 2: house is two blocks from where the cable was cut.
Speaker 2: Craigan goes he asks for a lawyer, and Benson's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but we could still hold him. Craigan asks on what
Speaker 2: very page disorbo do you do? You don't watch Summer House,
Speaker 2: do you?
Speaker 1: I was, I just was watching a little bit of it,
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't know every all. Oh, okay, but so
Speaker 1: Danielle is crazy.
Speaker 2: We've learned over the past few years and it is
Speaker 2: what it is.
Speaker 3: So she also just needs male attention.
Speaker 2: And there was like a hot guy Gabby wanted to
Speaker 2: flirt and Danielle wanted to make it a competition and
Speaker 2: she like fucked him, right. But because of that and alcohol,
Speaker 2: Gabby is crying in the shower of like everyone's putting brotherure.
Speaker 3: On me for this episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, So then Paige is like, hey, you made your
Speaker 2: friend cry, like go talk to her, and Danielle's like,
Speaker 2: that's stupid. And then Danielle goes as an entrepreneur and CEO,
Speaker 2: I need to communicate effect, and then Paige in her
Speaker 2: confessional goes entrepreneur and CEO of what I ask of what?
Speaker 3: And it's just like iconic, it really is.
Speaker 2: You know what's great about this podcast is you can
Speaker 2: see my mind change throughout it all the time.
Speaker 3: I'm always learning, you're always open.
Speaker 1: Your ability to jump from female's circumcision to summerhouse is unparallel.
Speaker 3: No one does it like you.
Speaker 2: I meant like changing my opinions throughout the years, but
Speaker 2: also topic jumping for sure.
Speaker 3: Yes, we're all learning, we're all growing. Opinions can change.
Speaker 2: So they're basically like, well for sexual abuse and dangering
Speaker 2: the welfare of a child, take your pick, statutory rape, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: Finn and Lake are tossing the home and they find
Speaker 2: out that the marriage was real and there's consolate papers
Speaker 2: to prove. It's November twenty six, so I'm assuming around
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and Finn is bonding with the short hair woman
Speaker 2: from earlier. She makes him take his shoes off and
Speaker 2: she needs to cover all the mirrors. So she's a
Speaker 2: superstitious girl like I am. And so then she says
Speaker 2: she is Almani Chuck Way's cousin. And there's all these
Speaker 2: kids running around spinning playing and one of the girls goes,
Speaker 2: I want pudding. They're like, not now, you'll get pudding later.
Speaker 2: Do you not see our house getting ransacked right now?
Speaker 2: Like to ask for putting got a good for pudding.
Speaker 2: She explains her and Nikki run a daycare to help
Speaker 2: with the rent, and those are just some random girls.
Speaker 2: Chester Lake does find something and it's a lot of
Speaker 2: beautiful statues made out of woodworking and Chuck Way did it,
Speaker 2: but he had a broken hand, So what's going on?
Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh my god, what kind of
Speaker 2: what is this? It could be a match. So a
Speaker 2: boy rocks in right at that moment with a gant.
Speaker 2: This is one of the craziest storylines of all time,
Speaker 2: I would say. So a boy walks in in a
Speaker 2: giant T shirt that says lie or die. Almani flips
Speaker 2: out and makes him take it off, and it's like,
Speaker 2: that's suspicious, like it could have just gone unnoticed. She
Speaker 2: takes it off hi, but it catches Finn's eye. He
Speaker 2: wants to know where it's from, but the boy just goes,
Speaker 2: I don't know if from a big man. I have
Speaker 2: no idea. He just wants to go play. So then
Speaker 2: they ask Almani. They're like, who is making you lie?
Speaker 2: And she goes, I don't know, I gotta go sorry,
Speaker 2: and then she runs off and Finn's like, I actually
Speaker 2: know where this T shirt's from. So they go to
Speaker 2: the street vendor and it's Earwax sky Sbu Royalty.
Speaker 3: Amazing. I thought he is the wax guy.
Speaker 2: This, yes, so because he's played lots of different characters,
Speaker 2: but this is wax guy coming back because they call him.
Speaker 1: Waxman, which I think when we saw him in name
Speaker 1: in name, He's.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous with the wax, Like, we knew he'd been
Speaker 1: all these different parts, but I don't think we knew
Speaker 1: that he had comes back as waks.
Speaker 5: Me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: No, this was a thrill when I heard wax come
Speaker 2: out of one of their mouths. So basically, this guy
Speaker 2: has blonde, long hair. We got to get him on
Speaker 2: the pod. We gotta find another episode he's in because
Speaker 2: I love this guy. He loves freedom of speech. They
Speaker 2: want him to rat and snitch. He goes, are you
Speaker 2: kidding me? Like, look at my T shirt? This is crazy.
Speaker 2: You would even ask me? My sales would go down,
Speaker 2: so Lake and chuccul to do the classic Fine, well
Speaker 2: we'll just hang out all day. I wonder how two
Speaker 2: cops standing at your table will do for your sales.
Speaker 2: He goes, listen, everyone is down with the stop snitching movement.
Speaker 2: I can't even say it with a streamage. Okay, he's
Speaker 2: like this, I'm the tip of the iceberg. There's big
Speaker 2: bucks coming from a website called stinkin rat dot com. Okay,
Speaker 2: so this is a site that rats out the rats.
Speaker 2: And Munch is in front of six TV screens. There's
Speaker 2: photos of cables. The website her alive, her dead, and
Speaker 2: then they report and so this website reports and ducks rats.
Speaker 2: Chuck Way is on the site. He is a key
Speaker 2: witness in Dennis Harold King's murder trial. So okay, so
Speaker 2: this is played by method Man and he is incredible.
Speaker 2: And I just went on his IMDb for a moment
Speaker 2: and he has one hundred and thirty one credits of acting.
Speaker 3: I did not know this. That is wild.
Speaker 1: I mean some of these credits are podcast voiceover.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's done seventeen episodes of The Deuce, there's
Speaker 2: thirty episodes of The Powers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Godfather of Harlem. He's been on Michael Chase Show.
Speaker 1: I mean he he also is sometimes credited as Cliff
Speaker 1: quote method Man, end quote Smith so but Mark.
Speaker 2: But those are usually you're playing yourself. Those are himself.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's a different category, like he
Speaker 2: might still be playing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like in The Duke.
Speaker 1: He's in seventeen episodes in The Deuce as Rodney, as
Speaker 1: a character named Rodney. No, for sure, I'm just saying that, Like,
Speaker 1: you know how James Vanderbeek played James Vanderbeek in Don't
Speaker 1: Trust the Bee and Apartment twenty three.
Speaker 3: That's still an acting role.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 2: Him on the Tonight Show is like him as himself.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, but this is my favorite. It
Speaker 2: says orange is the new black cardboard cutout credit only.
Speaker 3: I love that. Yeah, and a bunch of these are
Speaker 3: like blue black videos.
Speaker 1: But he's also been in like movies The Good Wife CSI,
Speaker 1: four episodes of CSI.
Speaker 3: He was in Difficult People like This is Not. He
Speaker 3: was in The Wire. He was in thirteen episodes of
Speaker 3: the Wire as Melvin Cheese Wagstaff.
Speaker 2: Well, and he's in Keanu, the movie I famously took
Speaker 2: my small niece and nephews too. That was a full
Speaker 2: stripper cocaine sword nightmare. I'm not so funny, It's so
Speaker 2: fucking funny.
Speaker 3: Just listen.
Speaker 2: I'm just like really excited, and I just was ignorant
Speaker 2: to the fact that Medman method Man is just killing it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oz, he's been acting for such a
Speaker 2: long time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, what's he up to right now? Well, I
Speaker 3: mean his IMDb's got pictures of him in like a suit.
Speaker 3: He's probably played all different guns.
Speaker 1: Well, that's Power five upcoming, oh, PowerBook two Ghosts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got five things in the upcoming section.
Speaker 3: Dude, he's working.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back, But I just I'm so excited about
Speaker 2: method Man. We haven't even met him yet. I'm just
Speaker 2: saying that he is played by method Man. We don't
Speaker 2: even know that yet. Anyway, he's a Harlem drug dealer,
Speaker 2: He's a business guy. Stabler does call him a thug.
Speaker 2: And then we know that he beat up a sixteen
Speaker 2: year old boy named Damon Moore, who I guess looked
Speaker 2: at his girlfriend the wrong way. And then so two
Speaker 2: days ago, Chuck Way's name was posted on the site,
Speaker 2: and twenty eight other people saw King beat Moore, but
Speaker 2: only Chuck Way and a guy named Tony Torres came forward.
Speaker 2: Tony did it as a part of a plea deal
Speaker 2: for drug crimes in a day after his info was posted.
Speaker 3: On the site, he was found dead.
Speaker 2: Munch goes, wait, so this whole time, Chuck Way's on
Speaker 2: our side, He's been helping us, he was going to testify,
Speaker 2: and so like maybe King killed Nikki to shut him up.
Speaker 2: Craigan walks in and Chuckway's attorney is here. Her name
Speaker 2: is Sarah Flint and she's with West African Legal Services.
Speaker 2: She is blonde and angry and in the blinds woodroom
Speaker 2: talking sternly to Olivia and she wants them to stop
Speaker 2: harressing her client.
Speaker 3: He is burying his wife today. Good point.
Speaker 1: I know this woman from nine oh to one zero
Speaker 1: original just steph Yi. That's where she popped out for me.
Speaker 1: She used to do a lot of more acting and
Speaker 1: Tracy Mittendorf and I. She had a big arc on Nino.
Speaker 3: Amazing for the Olds.
Speaker 2: She's like, Oh, you know what, I just realized that
Speaker 2: my dad is not a boomer. My dad is from
Speaker 2: the Silent generation. Oh yeah, he's pre boomer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wild saying yeah, but he must be cusp right, like,
Speaker 1: because my parents are boomers and they're not that much
Speaker 1: younger than your parents.
Speaker 3: Yeah he's eighty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my dad's nine years younger than your dad, and
Speaker 1: my dad's squarely boomer. So I don't know, maybe he's
Speaker 1: maybe he's a silent boomer.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know the Yeah, but the differences are within
Speaker 2: a few years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I myself, I'm on a cusp of generations.
Speaker 3: I'm a millennial. I feel more connected to millennials.
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't feel gen X, but like you know,
Speaker 1: my birthday is like truly so close to the cutoff line.
Speaker 1: But I think most people say I'm millennial.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So she's like, okay, I mean, no, one's confused at
Speaker 2: what I am. Okay, sorry to move on. But so
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, but him running away is a red flag,
Speaker 2: and she explains, duh, he's scared of the police. He's
Speaker 2: a political prisoner from back home. And Stabler implies that
Speaker 2: he was lying, and she's like, I know that he
Speaker 2: was because I was working there with Human Rights Watch,
Speaker 2: you fuck head. He's not some liar who spun a tail.
Speaker 2: I was there. He protested against the government because he
Speaker 2: wanted them to stop dumping refinery waste on his farm.
Speaker 2: They put him to jail, they beat him till his
Speaker 2: arm was fucked and they took his land. Stabler makes
Speaker 2: it all about him and is like, okay, sure, but
Speaker 2: he needs to put king away because we need that
Speaker 2: to happen, or worse things are going to happen to him.
Speaker 2: And they're like, what can we do to make him testify?
Speaker 2: And she goes, I don't know, give him facial surgery
Speaker 2: and move him to Scottsdale and she needs to go
Speaker 2: to Nicky's funeral and they offer her a ride. So
Speaker 2: they're at the cemetery and during the walk to the funeral,
Speaker 2: they find a time to make a walk and talk
Speaker 2: to get more information. Nicki and Chuck Way met over
Speaker 2: the phone. It was an arranged marriage, but it wasn't romantic.
Speaker 2: It was about survival. Christians were where she was, We're
Speaker 2: getting fucked up and so like after her sisters were
Speaker 2: raped and murdered. He agreed to marry her to bring
Speaker 2: her over to the States, and the detectives stay back
Speaker 2: by the trees to let everyone worn in peace, and
Speaker 2: Chuck Waite does not like this and walks over to
Speaker 2: Sarah and then to the cops and says, you are
Speaker 2: not welcome here. You put my family through enough, and
Speaker 2: so Sarah goes, no, they're actually trying to help us
Speaker 2: now and find out who did this, and he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: you want evidence against king? Look over there. So we
Speaker 2: look and they're at a grade stone paying respect. So
Speaker 2: it's Method of Man plus five of his friends and
Speaker 2: he knows he isn't breaking the law, but they arrest
Speaker 2: him anyways for interrupting a funeral. Okay, so his friends
Speaker 2: do not like this. And now we meet friend of
Speaker 2: the pod Stephen Weber. He's a bad guy lawyer here
Speaker 2: and he truly made a really big impression on us.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to listen to that episode.
Speaker 1: There's also a thing where Stephen Weber defends Method Man
Speaker 1: and Ludacrous. So he's got more than one rapper on
Speaker 1: his you know.
Speaker 2: N sca little Yeah, you know I got you got
Speaker 2: a murder mystery game and we've never played it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I bet.
Speaker 3: You donated it. No, I have it. I have it.
Speaker 3: I'm ready to play. I bet you gave it to
Speaker 3: someone on the block.
Speaker 1: No, I have it absolutely in our game cabinet. Yes
Speaker 1: you know I have.
Speaker 2: Well, I still have this fucking board game that I've
Speaker 2: not played. One time haunts me.
Speaker 1: You tried to sell that at a sale.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been trying to get rid of this forever,
Speaker 2: and now at this point she's really survived. It's a game.
Speaker 2: It's the elevens. Is the card game of morning tea.
Speaker 2: So I brought up to New York, made it to
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 3: Baby, you better be playing that over t asap.
Speaker 2: The whole point of the game is you are respectable
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty socialites striving to serve the finest morning tea.
Speaker 2: So pretty cool, pretty cool game, Pretty cool game. Oh whatever,
Speaker 2: So they're playing games too, you know Stephen Webber, who
Speaker 2: I kept writing Cooper for forever for some reasons. But
Speaker 2: Weber and mister method Man are very smug. He says,
Speaker 2: listen where I come from. Rats suck, And then he
Speaker 2: tells a story of a woman having the word snitch
Speaker 2: burdened into her face and I don't like to hear
Speaker 2: the story. And they go, so what did Nikki do?
Speaker 2: And Weber goes, don't answer that, and Sailor goes, why
Speaker 2: were you at the funeral? And basically method Man says
Speaker 2: he was there to show respects to a friend that
Speaker 2: was killed by the cops. Steven Weber opens his briefcase
Speaker 2: and there's photos, like, hey, this is this Guy's name
Speaker 2: is Reggie.
Speaker 3: He was shot by the cops.
Speaker 2: Here's the death certificate, the gravestone number where my client
Speaker 2: was praying, and that's pretty fucking good.
Speaker 3: Damn, he's worth every penny.
Speaker 2: So Gloria Reuben walks in and it seems like Stephen
Speaker 2: Weber wants to fuck her real bad, like he is
Speaker 2: into her. And she's playing Adya Danielson homicide beeraut Chief
Speaker 2: and she's wearing a boot with a bare naked foot
Speaker 2: in it, and she is injured and I'm sure that
Speaker 2: she was actually in and they put this in like
Speaker 2: there's no reason for her barefoot booth to boot to
Speaker 2: be out. So he gets up and he basically goes Mike,
Speaker 2: client and I are leaving.
Speaker 3: There are no charges.
Speaker 2: She goes, maybe not for intimidation, but he did violate
Speaker 2: an order of protection. You can't get closer to chuckway
Speaker 2: than one hundred feet. He responds, nice booty, and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: watch it kick your ass, So like everyone wants to
Speaker 2: fuck her, and then it's done. Don trial method man
Speaker 2: seems unbothered. He's picking at his nails. Weber and Ruban
Speaker 2: are fighting at the bench to the judge, Bam bam,
Speaker 2: back and forth.
Speaker 3: I want this, I want that. She's kicking his ass.
Speaker 2: Baylis set at half a million dollars and Chuck Way
Speaker 2: is sitting in the audience area. Method man winks at
Speaker 2: him and sticks his tongue out really fun wise, and
Speaker 2: he's being handcuffed and dragged away. So then Chuck Way
Speaker 2: is pretty scared. He's standing at the courtroom steps outside
Speaker 2: and tons of people are wearing the snitching shirts standing there.
Speaker 2: Benson and Stabler run up the stairs to meet Chuck Way.
Speaker 2: They take him in for protected custody and he's like,
Speaker 2: but what about Almani and Sarah and the children. They go, No,
Speaker 2: only immediate family. He says, they are my immediate family.
Speaker 2: And they start like being super condescending and explaining to
Speaker 2: him what immediate family means in this country. And he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: those are my wives and kids. Hello, and he had
Speaker 2: three wives and that's that. We like to get down
Speaker 2: where I'm from. And so then the detectives do a
Speaker 2: cartoon look back and forth at each other with their
Speaker 2: eyes really huge, and so back at the office at
Speaker 2: the vending machines. Benson is like, polygamy is illegal, and
Speaker 2: Munch goes, yeah, but not in Nigeria. But she wants
Speaker 2: to fucking arrest him. The men are like, no way,
Speaker 2: We're fine with polygamy. And so he's in cement Bar's
Speaker 2: room and Stabler and Benson are chatting and Stabler's like, damn,
Speaker 2: he can get one to three years per wife. Poor guy.
Speaker 2: Benson shoots him, daggers, poor guy. I find polygamy degrading.
Speaker 2: Craigan walks in off the phone from the DA's office
Speaker 2: and they want to know how bad this is, like
Speaker 2: dougs ands of wives, is their incest in breeding? If not,
Speaker 2: we got to do more investigating. They're not going to
Speaker 2: do it for just a few wives. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: we do have to still protect him so he can
Speaker 2: test defy in this case, so they take him to
Speaker 2: the safe house.
Speaker 3: Secure him first.
Speaker 2: The DA will hold him and make sure no more surprises,
Speaker 2: and if it's all worked out, move the whole family
Speaker 2: with him. Almani is eating with her kids and Benson
Speaker 2: is there and she's like, we're good, We're a good
Speaker 2: Christian family.
Speaker 3: And the Bible loves.
Speaker 2: Polygamy, and she's like, we're not different than millions of
Speaker 2: people all around the world. And Sarah thinks that Benson
Speaker 2: needs to be more open minded, and so Stablor pries
Speaker 2: and goes, so you weren't mad when he married Nicki
Speaker 2: and she's like, nope, we both welcomed her into our home,
Speaker 2: Almani says, because Sarah is a citizen and it helped
Speaker 2: her and Nikki get to the US. And so they
Speaker 2: go back and forth, and finally Sarah is like, it
Speaker 2: should be my choice, and you're a boomer, so get
Speaker 2: the fuck out of my face. And then Stabler goes,
Speaker 2: so if you want to marry a cat, and she goes,
Speaker 2: don't make fun of me, detective. So the like, marrying
Speaker 2: a cat is the worst thing that can happen, Like
Speaker 2: I love that. That's everyone's thing. It's always just like, oh,
Speaker 2: and then what if you marry a sheep. I think
Speaker 2: the sheep doesn't know what's happening because I don't rape
Speaker 2: the sheep. And as long as there's no rape, you
Speaker 2: can marry a sheep. Like, I don't underst how that's
Speaker 2: the big argument.
Speaker 3: Right, right, And then the property goes to the sheep
Speaker 3: when you die. I mean, you know it all works.
Speaker 3: I just don't think it's that crazy.
Speaker 1: This whole conversation also reminds me of this meme that
Speaker 1: I keep seeing that's like, that's like every cult religious
Speaker 1: cult leader. I've received a message from the Lord, and
Speaker 1: the Lord is and then it like interrupts and goes
Speaker 1: and I am to have multiple and it's like multiple wives,
Speaker 1: Like I can't do it. But it's like every cult
Speaker 1: leader is like the same. The Lord keeps giving me
Speaker 1: the same message and it's I am to have many wives,
Speaker 1: like and it just cracks me up. So that keeps
Speaker 1: reminding me of this, like yeah, no, God loves multiple wives.
Speaker 1: He told us somewhere.
Speaker 3: Oh God.
Speaker 2: But then she starts putting down monogamous relationships and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: you're doing the same thing back at them that you
Speaker 2: don't like. She goes, well, men cheat on you anyways,
Speaker 2: so why not just have a ton of wives. And
Speaker 2: Benson and Stable and Gloria Rubin are having a meeting
Speaker 2: and she doesn't have enough money to get like a
Speaker 2: car to protect them, and Benson basically they only have
Speaker 2: one point two million.
Speaker 3: Dollars to protect everyone.
Speaker 2: For a whole that needs help, like it's a really
Speaker 2: low budget whatever, and so they want to protect him.
Speaker 2: Benson goes, you know, we need to put away King
Speaker 2: and she goes, yeah, it's important, and I'll give a
Speaker 2: pass on polygamy. That's what he's getting. And Benson goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I hate polygamy. But he's putting his family life, everything
Speaker 2: on the line, and it's already cost him his wife's life, Like,
Speaker 2: we got to help him out. And they talk about
Speaker 2: money and everyone wants more protection, but the budget and
Speaker 2: Sailor's like, what should I do?
Speaker 3: What should I tell them, you know?
Speaker 2: And Gloria goes, they should have witnessed a federal crime,
Speaker 2: bigger budgets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: Benson notices on her shelf there's an award for Project
Speaker 2: Protect and there's an alarm pendant hanging on it and
Speaker 2: they used to give it out and she's like, why
Speaker 2: don't you just give me two of these? Is that
Speaker 2: in the budget? And so I can protect the wives.
Speaker 2: Even though she's disgusted with their lifestyle, she does want
Speaker 2: to help them and that's what makes Olivia fantastic.
Speaker 3: So it's a direct line to SVU. These little pendants.
Speaker 2: So Stabler goes to see Chuck Way at the motel
Speaker 2: that they're put up at, and they start talking to
Speaker 2: the maid in the hallway and oh, door hallway, the
Speaker 2: patio cement hallway. So the family left an hour ago
Speaker 2: and she said it was a whole family and it
Speaker 2: was a mess, but they fucking left. And so he
Speaker 2: calls Benson, who answers the phone and goes, yeah, I
Speaker 2: know they just walked into the precinct.
Speaker 3: They have.
Speaker 2: They got a note slipped under the door and it's
Speaker 2: a threat to Obi the Sun and he's not going
Speaker 2: to risk his family in safety. So he yells and
Speaker 2: they keep pushing and Stabler is like, the only way
Speaker 2: he walks as if you let him. He says, shut up.
Speaker 2: People like King don't stop. They think they're above the law.
Speaker 2: Silber says, fine, I'll protect you. Let's go. I'll post
Speaker 2: up at your home. He's touched by this decision. He
Speaker 2: needs them safe and he needs his testimony. So, okay,
Speaker 2: Chuck Way's on the stand. Method Man and Weber are
Speaker 2: staring him down, and Gloria Rubin that my Google docs
Speaker 2: turned into Florida. Reuben is asking questions and boom, Chuck
Speaker 2: Away changes his mind. He denies seeing anything unusual. Method
Speaker 2: Man has an evil grin, and then Gloria is pissed,
Speaker 2: but chuck Way doesn't care. He is not saying shit.
Speaker 2: It gets wild with objections and threats and pushing, and
Speaker 2: basically the judge tells Gloria, bitch, do you want to
Speaker 2: misstrial or what? So finally he goes, I'm sorry for
Speaker 2: wasting the court's time. I wanted to be a hero,
Speaker 2: but I am not. I didn't see anything. Sailor's pissed.
Speaker 2: He feels betrayed and walks out of the courtroom. Benson
Speaker 2: and Saber are like, fuck, he screwed us. Let's put
Speaker 2: him away for polygamy, contempt, and perjury, and Benson goes,
Speaker 2: I think he's been through enough. Weber walks by, and
Speaker 2: the everyday man standler goes, how do you sleep at night?
Speaker 3: Stephen?
Speaker 2: Webber goes, you're the pusher, You're coursing deals, plea deals,
Speaker 2: you're threatening criminal charges. Fuck you you're not better than me.
Speaker 2: Great fucking point. Methan Man goes in, high fives his
Speaker 2: lawyer and goes, let's go. We're gonna go drink some
Speaker 2: Christall and so they all leave to party and basically
Speaker 2: they're continuing his bail and the state has twenty four
Speaker 2: hours to find evidence of intimidation. So O'Halleran aka Doyle
Speaker 2: aka baby Doll, he says, So he takes the threatening notes,
Speaker 2: he does printline things. The printer's not a match, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: The printer is a match, though with the same papers
Speaker 2: from Chuckway's deposition, and so the note came from his
Speaker 2: home office, but he was in protective custody at the hotel,
Speaker 2: so it can't be him. And it's too sophisticated to
Speaker 2: be a kid, so it's either Sarah or Almani. But
Speaker 2: why would they do it? And Benson goes, maybe to
Speaker 2: get more protection for their kids. Then Hatty gets a call.
Speaker 2: I don't know why he would get the call, but
Speaker 2: Almani triggered her SVW alarm pendant. So Lisa Lampira, Lisa Lympira,
Speaker 2: Lisa Lisa Lampira, friend of the podcast, is there.
Speaker 3: Obviously it's confusing.
Speaker 2: Many Almani was unconscious when patrol found her, and we
Speaker 2: don't know if she's even gonna make it.
Speaker 3: Fuck fuck fuck.
Speaker 2: All the doors and windows are intact and methan Man
Speaker 2: and his friends are across the street from the house,
Speaker 2: so they stomp over to him, strut strutstra and he's like,
Speaker 2: slow down, I'm one hundred and thirty feet away. There's
Speaker 2: no violation here, and Stanbleord goes, oh, I'll find one,
Speaker 2: and Stabler starts making fun of his friends, but they take,
Speaker 2: you know, King's side. Ben's and gets a phone call
Speaker 2: and King goes, they're all scared of you. Maybe that's
Speaker 2: why you have no witnesses. Benson slams her flip phone
Speaker 2: and says, oh, yes, we do, smiles. He licks his lips.
Speaker 2: There at the hospital, Almani is awake, Thank god. She's
Speaker 2: worried about insurance and stuff. Life is so hard, and
Speaker 2: so Benson brings up the letter and she's like, why
Speaker 2: would I send a death threat to my own son.
Speaker 2: She swears she didn't do it, and they ask if
Speaker 2: Sarah did, and Almani just immediately looks upset. So she goes,
Speaker 2: Sarah sponsored my visa here and it expires soon, so
Speaker 2: I you know, if she doesn't want to renew it,
Speaker 2: I'll be deported. And Benson goes, I'll get you a
Speaker 2: special visa for witnesses, so you can stay fuck Sarah.
Speaker 2: But anyways, ALMANI does have to cooperate to get that visa.
Speaker 2: You don't have to live in fear, Benson says. She cries.
Speaker 2: Stabler asks if Sarah did this to her. She says yes,
Speaker 2: did she kill Nicky? More cries, and she says, I
Speaker 2: was in the kitchen. I heard Nicky and Sarah fighting
Speaker 2: over a man. Nicki screamed and fell down the stairs.
Speaker 2: Nicki was at the bottom of the stairs. Sarah said
Speaker 2: she would take Nicki to the hospital and shed stay
Speaker 2: home with the baby.
Speaker 3: She came back an.
Speaker 2: Hour later without Nikki and basically threatened, if you say anything,
Speaker 2: you'll be deported. After they took away Chuck Way, she
Speaker 2: finally stood up to Sarah and said she would not
Speaker 2: let him go down for her crimes. So she beat her.
Speaker 2: Oh sorry, just like so insane. So she says, Sarah
Speaker 2: is my family. I stayed silent as long as I could,
Speaker 2: but my kids and I need our husband or my husband, Okay,
Speaker 2: no incest. Here, Sarah's sitting with Chuck Way in prison
Speaker 2: full Bar's room and they bring in the printer smoking gun.
Speaker 2: It's all hitting chucky and so she's like, I did it.
Speaker 2: But she's like, I did it so the cops would
Speaker 2: protect us police law and Si goes, Nope, you wanted
Speaker 2: him not to testify so we would stop investigating Nicki's murder.
Speaker 2: He goes, is that true? She of course denies it.
Speaker 2: She goes, King, did it?
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 2: He gets mad and asked, what did you do to
Speaker 2: our family? And she screams, you did when you let
Speaker 2: Nikki into her home. I accepted ALLMANI is your wife,
Speaker 2: because you know you had her before we met.
Speaker 3: There was no need for Nikki.
Speaker 2: He goes, I married her to save her life, and
Speaker 2: she goes, but he didn't have to fall in love
Speaker 2: with her, and she massages his face. He slaps her
Speaker 2: hand away and screams guard. She then pleads it was
Speaker 2: an accident. She fell down the stairs. He stands up
Speaker 2: and he keeps screaming for the guard. She is sobbing.
Speaker 2: He shoves her aside. They arrest her, as she cries
Speaker 2: as they cut her, they cuff her. They do not
Speaker 2: cut her. They cuff her, so she screams, King is
Speaker 2: a thug. He deserves to go to prison, not me
Speaker 2: or you. Wow.
Speaker 3: So We're at the like the eighth trial.
Speaker 2: It's December third, What a busy fucking week, and he's
Speaker 2: ready to be a witness. He tells on this fucker
Speaker 2: he's wearing traditional clothing from his culture. He straight up
Speaker 2: points out that king, you know, is the guy who
Speaker 2: beat the boy with the pipe, and method Man gets
Speaker 2: pissed and screams, he's a liar, Dennis. Cops are making
Speaker 2: him lie. Who's Dennis? Okay, I'm just making things up.
Speaker 3: A king. My name is Dennis. Oh it is? Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's such a.
Speaker 2: Nod, A hard name, Dennis, like so itis, Oh you're right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I stand corrected.
Speaker 2: I just think of my mom's one coworker and his
Speaker 2: son who was a junior.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So, so the cops are making him lie and Weber
Speaker 2: tells him to shut up, and Chuckway stands up and screams, no,
Speaker 2: you murder that boy in front of a crowd of
Speaker 2: people and in front of God. Method Man throws the
Speaker 2: table over and screams, you're a dead man. Stabler jumps him.
Speaker 2: Judges streaming order, l ol, bitch like a gavel's gonna
Speaker 2: stop this commotion. He's being dragged out he's not being
Speaker 2: chill at all. He's screaming everything you love is dead.
Speaker 2: You're dead.
Speaker 3: Everyone's dead.
Speaker 2: Bye, bitch. Almani and Chuckway embrace. He feels okay, he
Speaker 2: is no longer afraid. They walk off after a hellish
Speaker 2: couple weeks. And that is dick wolf baby. I mean
Speaker 2: it's also okay.
Speaker 1: Wait, so she pushes her down the stairs, and then
Speaker 1: she did and then she says she's gonna take her
Speaker 1: to the hospital. Let's say she kills her. Then she
Speaker 1: goes and steals the cable from another place. This lady,
Speaker 1: this lady lawyer goes and steals cable.
Speaker 3: It was just like a block away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was cut out, like she couldn't find a rope.
Speaker 1: She just like went and stole cable out.
Speaker 3: Of her Uh.
Speaker 2: It's confusing to me, but well maybe because she'd have
Speaker 2: to go buy rope and she didn't want to leave
Speaker 2: a credit card.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, you don't want to leave a trail.
Speaker 1: But I don't know why why even tie Like I
Speaker 1: don't know the tying. It just felt like that was
Speaker 1: all a little bit like red herring stuff. That wasn't
Speaker 1: you know. I'm always looking for holes but what a
Speaker 1: wild I mean, Chuck Way and ALMANI have to move
Speaker 1: to like fucking North Dakota. They just have to, Like
Speaker 1: this guy's going to come after them, I feel from jail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they gotta get out of there. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it's not. We can't, we can't, can't be saying in
Speaker 1: New York anyway, thank you.
Speaker 3: For that beautiful recap.
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into some We're gonna get into some
Speaker 1: true crimes in a moment.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back so really quickly.
Speaker 1: I want to touch on the website stinkin rat dot com,
Speaker 1: which is based on an actual website called who'sarat dot com,
Speaker 1: and it looks like it was designed very much in
Speaker 1: the early odds. It claims to be the largest online
Speaker 1: database for police informants and corrupt police slash agents and
Speaker 1: it says thank you for visiting www dot who'sarat dot
Speaker 1: com a very unique investigative research tool website service that
Speaker 1: has been online since two thousand and four. The database
Speaker 1: has five thousand profiles of police informants, snitches and rats
Speaker 1: and the membership there's different membership tiers and they will
Speaker 1: allow you full access to the entire site. And it
Speaker 1: says all posts made by users should be considered as
Speaker 1: inaccurate opinions unless backed by official documents.
Speaker 3: So it says please. It also says please.
Speaker 1: Post informants that are involved in non violent crimes only
Speaker 1: who's informing? I guess people are informing on drug dealing,
Speaker 1: but like, are people informing on like he lets his
Speaker 1: dog shit on the street, or like, I don't know
Speaker 1: nonviolent crimes?
Speaker 3: I don't. It's it's wild.
Speaker 1: But Homeland Security warned law enforcement against visiting the site.
Speaker 1: They were like, don't go to this website. It has
Speaker 1: published lists of government IP addresses, names and photographs of
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers, and names of confidential informants, and it
Speaker 1: could result in the compromise of government IP.
Speaker 3: Addresses if you visit it.
Speaker 1: So there's like a whole thing that's like, if they're
Speaker 1: collecting IP addresses, they could it could show that a
Speaker 1: cop is looking at it, and then that could affect
Speaker 1: their testimony at trial or any of their cases that
Speaker 1: they have ongoing. So it's like the Homeland Security is like, babes,
Speaker 1: please don't go to this. Lifetime membership is forty nine
Speaker 1: to ninety nine. But when you go to the website,
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine it's being updated. So if you want
Speaker 1: to find an informant from twenty years ago, you can
Speaker 1: go grab a membership. But also this lie Die merch
Speaker 1: whole thing that they're talking about is based on a
Speaker 1: movement that was called Stop Snitching or Snitches Get Stitches,
Speaker 1: which we've heard, you know many times in TV and movies.
Speaker 1: But Stop Snitch and T shirts first showed up in
Speaker 1: Philly in two thousand and two, but the campaign got
Speaker 1: famous in Baltimore in late two thousand and four when
Speaker 1: Rodney Thomas, a guy named Rodney Thomas, released a DVD
Speaker 1: called Stop Snitching, and it started like making the rounds
Speaker 1: all around town. Rodney Thomas, aka Skinny Shug, pleaded guilty
Speaker 1: to first degree assault in two thousand and six in
Speaker 1: Baltimore and got fifteen years, but twelve years were suspended,
Speaker 1: so we got three on the DVD. All these dudes
Speaker 1: who are claiming to be drug dealers are talking straight
Speaker 1: to camera. They're threatening people who talk to the cops
Speaker 1: and report crimes, and it's basically pointed at those. It's
Speaker 1: less about Oh I'm Chuck Way and I just happened
Speaker 1: to witness a crime, and it's like more about people
Speaker 1: who give who rap people out in order to get
Speaker 1: lighter sentences for themselves. I think that's more who people
Speaker 1: consider to be rats, Like, oh, you do bad things too,
Speaker 1: and you're just ratting to get a better, you know,
Speaker 1: a better deal for yourself.
Speaker 3: So a funny thing is on this DVD.
Speaker 1: NBA star Carmelo Anthony briefly appears on it, and he
Speaker 1: was obviously a lot of people were like, yo, Carmelo,
Speaker 1: are you in this Stop Snitching DVD?
Speaker 3: And he was like, I thought it was a joke.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was my neighborhood friends making a
Speaker 1: home movie and nobody should really take the message of
Speaker 1: this DVD seriously. Baltimore PD tried to combat this campaign
Speaker 1: with their own Keep Talking campaign, which gave also gave
Speaker 1: out DVDs and free T shirts in the same way,
Speaker 1: but this time it was to like make potential witnesses
Speaker 1: like feel safe and highlight that it's important to bring
Speaker 1: criminals to justice and stuff. But I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't think it god as viral as Stop Snitch and did.
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit where that whole thing and
Speaker 1: the Waxman's business on the street came from because there
Speaker 1: were DVDs being sold in t shirts. But now I
Speaker 1: want to get into this case that it's wild, like
Speaker 1: there was a dateline on it, but there's not like
Speaker 1: a Wikipedia. There's like not a lot of New York
Speaker 1: Times or like articles in a lot of publications about it.
Speaker 1: But and it's it's loosely related to this crime in
Speaker 1: the sense that it's about multiple wives and a murder
Speaker 1: taking place in a family with multiple wives. But I
Speaker 1: would say, don't be looking for too much SVU connection.
Speaker 1: But I thought it was an interesting case, and so
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about it. So this guy named
Speaker 1: Sean Goff was an evangelical minister in San Diego when
Speaker 1: he met Joy Risker at the age of sixteen, and
Speaker 1: he was her youth pastor. He is described by many
Speaker 1: people as handsome, engaging, persuasive, and also very religious. Sean
Speaker 1: ended up marrying Joy in nineteen ninety seven, when she
Speaker 1: was nineteen and he was thirty. So I guess he
Speaker 1: was like twenty seven when he met this sixteen year
Speaker 1: old girl, but Sean had already been.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's what's weird.
Speaker 2: As you know, we're we like love Chuck Way, and
Speaker 2: he tried to save her, but he did fall in
Speaker 2: love with a fifteen year old. Yes, yes, And I
Speaker 2: get that it's chill in their and their culture, but like,
Speaker 2: uh yeah.
Speaker 1: And we can talk about this in an intro if
Speaker 1: we want, But like this, the Jerry Seinfeldt who shot
Speaker 1: a Lonstein stuff is way in my feet again. I
Speaker 1: feel like everybody's bringing it up because Seinfeld's been bitching
Speaker 1: about like comedy being too woke or whatever, and now
Speaker 1: everyone's like, remember when you were thirty eight and you
Speaker 1: dated an eighteen year old thirty nine?
Speaker 3: He was thirty nine and he dated anything.
Speaker 2: You have a billion dollars? Why don't you just keep
Speaker 2: your mouth shut? Like we've talked about this before, but
Speaker 2: seventy year olds being like, ah, the young culture is
Speaker 2: not for It's like, yeah, you're old, dude, Yeah, keep
Speaker 2: performing for the old, like it's your idea that you're
Speaker 2: gonna connect with nineteen year old Stop doing colleges.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, young people don't like you.
Speaker 1: You're seventy Take your Netflix money and stop doing colleges.
Speaker 2: It's fine, Like I just it's just so embarrassing when
Speaker 2: such old people are like youth today they're too offended.
Speaker 3: You are a senior citizen.
Speaker 2: Why do you think you're gonna connect with people that
Speaker 2: are twenty because your kids, because you have kids that age.
Speaker 1: Well, when he was forty, he was connecting someone who
Speaker 1: was eighteen. I didn't even realize in this stuff I've
Speaker 1: been seeing like they dated for three years. I kind
Speaker 1: of thought it was like maybe just a flirtation or something,
Speaker 1: but like they dated for three years. She moved colleges
Speaker 1: to be closer to him. In laugh anyway, So Sean
Speaker 1: Mary's Joy, he's thirty, she's nineteen, and but Bing Bang
Speaker 1: Bong he's already married. He's married to a woman named Sheila.
Speaker 1: He's been married to since nineteen ninety. So when he
Speaker 1: quote unquote married Joy, he did have to leave his
Speaker 1: church in San Diego and his job at a Christian
Speaker 1: ministry because they were not with the polygamy. Then he
Speaker 1: later air quotes married a woman named Sharon in two thousand,
Speaker 1: because I believe you can have multiple wives like in Utah,
Speaker 1: but they were not getting married in states where it
Speaker 1: was legal, so or in Mexico. At some point, I
Speaker 1: think it's legal, and that's why sometimes Mormon polygamists go
Speaker 1: down there, but it's not legal in California, so you know,
Speaker 1: he says he's marrying these people, but it's not really marriage.
Speaker 1: Sean marries a woman named Sharon named in two thousand,
Speaker 1: but she didn't even make it a year with the family.
Speaker 1: Sean and Sheila said that Sharon had mental health issues
Speaker 1: and that she didn't fit in with the family. Allegedly
Speaker 1: also she enjoyed did not get along. Sean later testified
Speaker 1: that a Christian polygamist he knew had pressured him to
Speaker 1: take in Sharon as a religious duty, and that sort
Speaker 1: of echoes a little bit taken Nikki for religious persecution thing,
Speaker 1: and Shawn and Sharon only spoke online when he drove
Speaker 1: across the country to get her and bring her back
Speaker 1: to southern California, and he pretty quickly took note of
Speaker 1: her mental issues and realized that it had been a mistake,
Speaker 1: and he asked Sharon to leave the family after eight months.
Speaker 1: So he never tried to legally marry Joy or Sharon.
Speaker 1: So tech legally he's not a big a mist and
Speaker 1: he can't be brought up on those charges. But to everybody,
Speaker 1: he has married these women, so other than his eight
Speaker 1: months with Sharon. Sean has Joy and Sheila as his wives,
Speaker 1: and he has two kids with Joy and one kid
Speaker 1: with Sheila. Sheila was more of a stay at home wife.
Speaker 1: She didn't go out with Sean that much. Joy was
Speaker 1: the outgoing, bubbly won and she took on the role
Speaker 1: of as Sean's public wife, so they took romantic trips,
Speaker 1: went out for dinners and dancing all the time. But
Speaker 1: apparently Joy started to get fed up with the family dynamics.
Speaker 1: She thought Sean was controlling, and she had dreams. Okay,
Speaker 1: she wanted to travel, she wanted to go back to school,
Speaker 1: she wanted to have a career, and obviously this polygamous
Speaker 1: man who said God told him to have another wife, thinks, no,
Speaker 1: your kind of purpose is to serve me. So on
Speaker 1: September nineteenth, two thousand and three, my friend Liz's birthday,
Speaker 1: the day before mine, Joy, then aged twenty five, disappeared
Speaker 1: after having dinner with Sean at the Hotel del Coronado
Speaker 1: in San Diego. Sean told people that Joy had left
Speaker 1: him and their young boys and run off with an
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend, and also her friends were getting emails from
Speaker 1: Sean explaining her decisions, or she would just sort of
Speaker 1: rite back kind of anger tinged replies to her friends
Speaker 1: that were like I'll talk to you when I'm ready,
Speaker 1: And the friends definitely was like, We're like, this is
Speaker 1: out of character, this is weird for Joy, this is
Speaker 1: not how she talks. So finally, her friend Jill called
Speaker 1: the police to file a missing person's report and the
Speaker 1: case was assigned to Linda Cousin, a San Diego Police
Speaker 1: investigative aid, and she called Sean at first, and she said,
Speaker 1: at the beginning he seemed credible. He told her that
Speaker 1: his wife had just taken off and he showed her
Speaker 1: emails that backed it up. One of the emails said quote,
Speaker 1: I have to get out and experience the world around
Speaker 1: me and know that there is life outside of those
Speaker 1: four walls. And then he replied to her, I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry I couldn't make you happy. But when Linda checked
Speaker 1: Joy's cell phone records, she saw that all activity on
Speaker 1: her phone stopped the day she disappeared. The last call
Speaker 1: she made was to Sean, which he conveniently never told Cousin,
Speaker 1: so when she asked him about it, he said they'd
Speaker 1: had a romantic weekend plan to rekindle the romance. Took
Speaker 1: all three kids to Santa Barbara, and Sean and Joy
Speaker 1: were gonna like have this, you know, lovely couple's weekend,
Speaker 1: but they ended up fighting and she said he woke
Speaker 1: up early to find Joy with two suitcases getting into
Speaker 1: a car with a dude. And Cousin is like, that's
Speaker 1: a weird thing to leave out the first time I
Speaker 1: talked to you, Like, why didn't you mention any of this?
Speaker 1: So she keeps investigating, and another thing that doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense is that Joy didn't have a passport, so she's
Speaker 1: going off.
Speaker 3: To see the world.
Speaker 1: She's not leaving the States, and if she's in the States,
Speaker 1: she's not using her cell phone. So plus, she tracked
Speaker 1: down the dude that Joy was supposedly running off with
Speaker 1: this ex boyfriend, and shock of shocks, he had no
Speaker 1: plans to meet up with her. He was not in
Speaker 1: touch with her. So now cousin knows something is up
Speaker 1: and Joy is not okay. So she goes and questions Sheila,
Speaker 1: and Sheila is surprised because she honestly thought Joy had
Speaker 1: pieced out. She that's like what she's been told, and
Speaker 1: that's what she thought. But deep down, she had some
Speaker 1: suspicions and that things weren't adding up, and she had
Speaker 1: cleaned up blood spots at the house. Okay, So after
Speaker 1: talking to cousin, Sheila calls Sean and he tells her
Speaker 1: a story very different from the one he's been telling her.
Speaker 1: And she said that what he told her left her
Speaker 1: quote unquote hysterical. But a lot of what she told
Speaker 1: him is not allowed to be revealed at trial because
Speaker 1: of spousal privilege, because she is truly married to him
Speaker 1: by law. So he tells her something that she's allowed
Speaker 1: to testify made her hysterical, but she's not allowed to
Speaker 1: say what it is. She said she told him to
Speaker 1: turn himself in. And October twenty one, two thousand and three,
Speaker 1: about a month after Joy's been missing, he turns himself
Speaker 1: in and he confesses to murdering her, and he said
Speaker 1: then and he still maintains that God told him to
Speaker 1: do it. So they search the house and they find
Speaker 1: tiny blood spatters in Joy's bedroom and in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: which was confirmed by DNA to be Joy's blood. And
Speaker 1: this is wild because it's like a month later when
Speaker 1: they're searching the house, the blood is still there. Also,
Speaker 1: a forensic computer expert finds that the emails that Sean
Speaker 1: had been flashing around as proof that she'd left the
Speaker 1: country were all sent for the same computer. So, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy definitely killed his wife, but where is her body?
Speaker 1: Like where is Joy? Right after Sean confesses, he lawyers up,
Speaker 1: and he sits in jail for months. The investigation stalls,
Speaker 1: is what I read, which I don't understand, Like they
Speaker 1: don't make him an offer or a deal to say
Speaker 1: where the body is. Like it's wild. He's come in,
Speaker 1: he's confessed. I feel like they would say, okay, we
Speaker 1: will take I mean maybe death penalty is not even
Speaker 1: an option, but we can, you know, put you in
Speaker 1: a jail near to your kids or something like that
Speaker 1: if you tell us where your fucking wife's body is.
Speaker 1: But he just doesn't say it for months and months. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: a desert hand I don't know what that is. A
Speaker 1: man that does just debt general desert handiwork unnamed Reuben
Speaker 1: Condey had noticed a large pile of stones, and these
Speaker 1: are called cairns. Also like on trails, there could be cairns,
Speaker 1: and in the desert in the Arizona Desert where he lived,
Speaker 1: just north of the Mexican border. And he thought it
Speaker 1: was weird because the pile was very big. If there
Speaker 1: are foes of it in the articles that I will
Speaker 1: link to and my sources, but it's too big to
Speaker 1: be an animal barrier burial. And it didn't smell like
Speaker 1: a dead animal, but it had a faint smell of rotten.
Speaker 3: Meat, he said.
Speaker 1: So he called his son, who was a federal ranger
Speaker 1: with the Bureau of Land Management, and on January ten,
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, a little less than four months
Speaker 1: after Joy's disappearance, Conde's son, the ranger moved these rocks
Speaker 1: aside and discovers human remains. It's a torso and a
Speaker 1: portion of a head. Now, a detective for the Maricopa
Speaker 1: County Sheriff brought these extremely decomposed remains to the emmy
Speaker 1: in Phoenix, who was able to determine that she was young,
Speaker 1: female African American and had given birth before. But the
Speaker 1: emmy also discovered that she had twelve stab wounds to
Speaker 1: the chest, her fingertips had been chopped off with a
Speaker 1: meat cleaver, her teeth had been sawed out, and her
Speaker 1: face had been bashed in. So this medical examiner whose
Speaker 1: name is doctor Laura Fuljaniti. She is pissed, she told
Speaker 1: Dateline quote, goddamn CSI, because that's clearly what had happened.
Speaker 1: Somebody had watched too much TV and they knew exactly
Speaker 1: what to get rid of to try to thwart us.
Speaker 3: End of quote.
Speaker 1: So like they had no teeth, no fingerprints, and DNA
Speaker 1: is apparently very hard and expensive to extract from such
Speaker 1: a decomposed body. So full Janeiti and her colleague, a
Speaker 1: forensic artist. I've never heard of a forensic artist before,
Speaker 1: but this guy's name is Detective Bob Powers.
Speaker 3: They worked to use.
Speaker 1: Her remains to recreate her face, like they used clay
Speaker 1: to kind of like fill in the gaps, and they
Speaker 1: ended up with a sketch of her, but it didn't
Speaker 1: match anyone in Missing Persons.
Speaker 3: So at one point they had a lead.
Speaker 1: They thought, oh, it might be this person who popped
Speaker 1: in Missing Persons, but they and now the lead led
Speaker 1: to them being able to get the DNA sample from
Speaker 1: the remains, but it wasn't the right woman. But now
Speaker 1: they have the DNA sample, so then it makes it
Speaker 1: into the FBI database and boom, there's a match. So
Speaker 1: after eight months after her bones we found, and almost
Speaker 1: a year from when she disappeared, Joy Risker's body is
Speaker 1: finally idd It's the summer of two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: Sean finally goes on trial, and prosecutors set out to
Speaker 1: prove that GoF had been planning to murder Joy for months.
Speaker 1: His friend testifies that they'd been brainstorming in a brainstorming
Speaker 1: session the year before, under the pretense of writing a
Speaker 1: movie about how a protagonist could watch TV shows to
Speaker 1: learn how to hide a body so sketchy. A bunch
Speaker 1: of other people testified that Sean had alluded to getting
Speaker 1: rid of Joy, saying she was lazy and it wasn't
Speaker 1: working out, but also telling others that she seemed like
Speaker 1: the type to run away, like he was setting up
Speaker 1: his excuse.
Speaker 2: But friends say he also like, you can also just
Speaker 2: split up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's lazy. Why don't you
Speaker 2: just dump her on the side of the road. You
Speaker 2: don't have to kill her?
Speaker 3: I know. Fuck, it's so fucked.
Speaker 1: And friends say that he also told Joy if she
Speaker 1: left he would keep the kids, so like, I can
Speaker 1: see why she's not leaving. If he's saying he's going
Speaker 1: to try to keep the kids, but yeah, he's a
Speaker 1: murderous psycho. But Sheila, who at the time of the
Speaker 1: trial has already divorced Sean, also testified. She talked about
Speaker 1: how six days before Joy's disappearance, he came home with
Speaker 1: a chisel, a handsaw, a pickaxe, a sledgehammer, duct tape,
Speaker 1: plastic sheeting, a shovel, a cooler, a butcher block, and
Speaker 1: a butcher knife. And they asked her, Oh, what's his
Speaker 1: level as a handyman or a craftsman, which I thought
Speaker 1: was interesting because they do call Chuckway a craftsman in
Speaker 1: the episode, and Sheila's like, none, bitch, this guy is
Speaker 1: not handy. So the Friday of the murder, he took
Speaker 1: Joy to a Kobe beef dinner. He spent two hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty nine dollars on this big dinner. At eight
Speaker 1: thirty six that night, Joy called Sheila to say good
Speaker 1: night to her boys, and that's when he took Joy
Speaker 1: home and killed her, and then dismembered her body and
Speaker 1: drove it five hours to Arizona in a rented suv
Speaker 1: where he buried it under these stones. On Sunday, he
Speaker 1: called Shila to tell her that Joy and him broke up,
Speaker 1: but all So mentioned that Joy had cut herself and
Speaker 1: asked Shila to clean up the blood. So Sheila's ignoring
Speaker 1: a bunch of you know, red flags. But she's also
Speaker 1: like in a polygamist marriage with a religious man and
Speaker 1: probably does what.
Speaker 3: He tells her.
Speaker 1: So he didn't get back till Monday, and he told
Speaker 1: Sheila he'd gone for a long drive to deal with
Speaker 1: the Joy breakup. So and of course this monster in
Speaker 1: court tries to claim that Joy attacked him and that
Speaker 1: he killed her in self defense, and he like plays
Speaker 1: up his religiousness at court, like his religiosity, like he's
Speaker 1: I'm a man of God, this and that. But it's like,
Speaker 1: but you like you also, you admitted that you did this,
Speaker 1: so I mean, I guess he want the jury to
Speaker 1: feel sorry for him, so he brought up religion a lot.
Speaker 1: He also tried to claim that Joy had abused their
Speaker 1: children and that he'd confronted her that night with a
Speaker 1: photo that proved it. The photo was never produced at
Speaker 1: trial because that shit probably doesn't exist. And he said
Speaker 1: he didn't want his sons to lose both parents, so
Speaker 1: that's when he decided he needed to cover up the murder,
Speaker 1: but the jury didn't buy any of this shit, and
Speaker 1: it took them two hours to convict him, and in
Speaker 1: September of six he was sentenced to twenty five to life.
Speaker 1: So that would mean he doesn't get out until thirty one.
Speaker 1: And I doubt he's going to get out, I really do.
Speaker 1: But that is yeah, because I doubt he has made
Speaker 1: amends or right. I don't see him realizing what he
Speaker 1: did was wrong and admitting it and any of the
Speaker 1: especially when God speaks, Yeah, exactly, especially when you're hiding
Speaker 1: under the blanket of God, you know, who can tell
Speaker 1: you what to do and you got to do it.
Speaker 2: It's also so funny that proving religious city or whatever
Speaker 2: is positive when all like murder is like so many wars,
Speaker 2: like I know, like religion is violent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you talking about you being into God actually
Speaker 1: just backs up the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was like wild that there weren't
Speaker 1: like more articles about this.
Speaker 3: I mean there are.
Speaker 1: Articles, they're just like there's a dateline, but there's not
Speaker 1: as much. I don't know. It wasn't like a case
Speaker 1: I heard about and it happened in the two thousands,
Speaker 1: so I you know, thought it would have trickled over
Speaker 1: to me at some point. But this poor fucking woman
Speaker 1: was you know, murdered by this asshole after she agreed
Speaker 1: to be his second wife.
Speaker 3: But that's that. So what's a bummer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we have a great guest and that's going
Speaker 1: to make you all feel better.
Speaker 3: So don't go anywhere. And his movie idea wasn't bad
Speaker 3: if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is a Nigerian British actor who has
Speaker 1: starred in some huge movies. You've seen him in Hotel
Speaker 1: Rwanda and Pirates of the Caribbean at World's End. Plus
Speaker 1: he's a recurring character on Black Sales, which you can
Speaker 1: watch on Netflix now. But you know him today as
Speaker 1: the kind polygamist Chuck Way Bathamme. Please enjoy our chat
Speaker 1: with Hakim k kasm Hakim. We're so excited I have
Speaker 1: you on this podcast. I feel like Thank You for
Speaker 1: Me is a big episode. It always like I always
Speaker 1: remember it and I always think of it as the
Speaker 1: Chukway episode. So you make a huge impression in this episode.
Speaker 1: That's your character and that's what I think about it
Speaker 1: as great.
Speaker 6: Well, just do me a favor, just remind me of
Speaker 6: the Chokway episode, because it's been in minute since I've
Speaker 6: seen it, so yeah, you have to catch me.
Speaker 5: Up on it.
Speaker 1: So you are from Nigeria and you have come to
Speaker 1: the United States with a wife, and then you marry
Speaker 1: and you bring another woman over from Nigeria.
Speaker 3: You marry her, and then you also marry your.
Speaker 1: Lawyer who is an American citizen, and you guys have
Speaker 1: this sort of like blended family of polyamory or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then unfortunately in the end, your American wife kills
Speaker 1: one of your other wives and he's only fifteen because
Speaker 1: you fell in love with her and she's jealous.
Speaker 3: But they think it's method Man for a long time.
Speaker 6: That's right, Yes, I remember, Yeah, you're in a big
Speaker 6: episode with Method Mary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should have just met the man.
Speaker 6: Yeah remember. Yeah, he was lovely as well. And I
Speaker 6: didn't know. I knew Wu Tang Klang vaguely. I think
Speaker 6: I just come over from South Africa, so and I
Speaker 6: wasn't really listening to that music, so I didn't actually
Speaker 6: know that he was a musician until after the show.
Speaker 5: He was oh, you.
Speaker 6: Worked with this great musician method Man, So I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 6: but he was lovely so it's really really a nice man.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it was great working with him.
Speaker 1: That's great because his character was it was very scary.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I don't know if you remember, you did
Speaker 2: a lot of stunts. There was a lot of running, jumping,
Speaker 2: you're getting swemmed on a car. Do you remember the
Speaker 2: process of shooting, rehearsing stunt doubles or anything like that.
Speaker 6: You know, I remember I was fitter then. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 6: I was fitter then, so I don't remember it being
Speaker 6: any problem. But yeah, I mean, I always enjoy it
Speaker 6: if I can do. I mean, I've just done another
Speaker 6: procedural up there in New York and a lot of running,
Speaker 6: but they put in a stunt double for because I
Speaker 6: wasn't running quick enough. So I realized that actually ages
Speaker 6: caught up on me. But I think back then it
Speaker 6: was great. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: Do you live in Cape Town or are you there
Speaker 3: for work?
Speaker 6: I live between cap I'm here for work, but I
Speaker 6: live between Cape Town and Los Angeles, so you know,
Speaker 6: work takes me all over the place. But I have
Speaker 6: a you know, I stay. I've got a very good
Speaker 6: friend who I stay with in LA when i'm there,
Speaker 6: so I was just in LA and then uh and
Speaker 6: and then I live sort of most of the time
Speaker 6: in Cape Town. Now since the pandemic, it's been more
Speaker 6: more Cape Town than than LA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you were to come back on SVU, what
Speaker 2: would you like to play?
Speaker 6: Maybe somebody? I don't know, because I'm always playing sort
Speaker 6: of nasty. I don't know, you know, you know, I
Speaker 6: don't know. I shouldn't and I don't. Actually, I wouldn't
Speaker 6: mind whatever they threw at me. I think, I mean this,
Speaker 6: this the one on that, the one recently that I
Speaker 6: think it's just been there now. I was a sort
Speaker 6: of a dex An next general sort of you know,
Speaker 6: a bit of a nasty character, and I sometimes I
Speaker 6: get those that this one, maybe i'd be a really
Speaker 6: nice man.
Speaker 3: Well, you're you're very nice in this SVU and this
Speaker 3: SVU you're like, yeah about your fav I don't know.
Speaker 3: NICKI is young. Nicky is young.
Speaker 1: He did marry a fifteen but he but he married
Speaker 1: her to bring her away from.
Speaker 3: Persecution and religious execution in her home country, so he
Speaker 3: was kind of bring her a favor.
Speaker 5: But you remember, you remember she is.
Speaker 3: But she is fifteen.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the show really sets you up to whose
Speaker 1: side are we on?
Speaker 2: You know, well, you played a real life, real bad
Speaker 2: guy in Hotel Rwanda and like war criminal general, Like,
Speaker 2: what's the process like to play a real person?
Speaker 3: I know that was a while ago too, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: But that one I remember because it had a sort
Speaker 6: of quite a big impact on me because I just
Speaker 6: got to South Africa for the first time, and South
Speaker 6: Africa in ninety four roughly was celebrating the release of
Speaker 6: Nelson Mandela the first elections, so there was a sense
Speaker 6: of amazing euphoria here and an amazing possible abilities here,
Speaker 6: and it was a really sort of you know, it
Speaker 6: gives me goose punts when I think about it, because
Speaker 6: it was such an exciting, possible time, full of possibility.
Speaker 6: And at the same time as this Rwanda was going
Speaker 6: on in ninety four, the genocide started, and you know,
Speaker 6: to my shame and I think a lot of people,
Speaker 6: because we were so engrossed in Emboston the sort of
Speaker 6: celebration and liberation of South Africa, I don't remember hearing
Speaker 6: too much about the run the genocide, and I really
Speaker 6: only got to know the depth of it when I
Speaker 6: started to film and I was on set with and
Speaker 6: this was in two thousand and four, I think five,
Speaker 6: and being on set with Rwanda and refugee, someone who'd
Speaker 6: come over from the border, just listening to some of
Speaker 6: their stories, doing the research and looking online and seeing
Speaker 6: some of those videos that were shot on the hill
Speaker 6: of people being massacred, and reading the General's book, the general,
Speaker 6: the Canadian General of the UN General who was there
Speaker 6: at Delaire I think his name was, and reading his
Speaker 6: book and it gave me a full picture of of
Speaker 6: of what had happened, and and so you know, it
Speaker 6: was it was very sort of intense for me to
Speaker 6: understand that and to then go back into the history
Speaker 6: of it, and so then to try and gather the
Speaker 6: you know, the energy to play that character, understand you
Speaker 6: know deeply what what what his sort of motivation was,
Speaker 6: and you know, because neighbors were killing neighbors, you know,
Speaker 6: you know, you could be married into the same family
Speaker 6: and yet and lived next door of a couple of generations,
Speaker 6: and yet that that level of in humanity suddenly springs
Speaker 6: up out of nowhere. I was just recently back in
Speaker 6: Rwanda and and what has been amazing is the job
Speaker 6: that I think that Paul and the Army's got done
Speaker 6: in terms of making sure there's been a reconciliation, so
Speaker 6: there wasn't sort of a backlash again, a retribution backlash.
Speaker 6: People had village village tribunals, and so the people that
Speaker 6: were responsible for the massacre were in these tribunals and
Speaker 6: and and and you know those discussions and and neighbors
Speaker 6: were then told to forgive neighbors and then they lived
Speaker 6: now live their cohabit again. So it's a really interesting
Speaker 6: process of It was a really amazing sort of film
Speaker 6: for me to do and to really get to understand
Speaker 6: the depth of history. But they also try and understand
Speaker 6: the depth of human depravity, which you know, how can
Speaker 6: you turn on somebody in such a intense way. It's just,
Speaker 6: you know, I still don't quite understand it, but you know,
Speaker 6: I try to give a character some justification for.
Speaker 5: Doing what he's doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And are you a method like you do so
Speaker 2: many different accents and like so many different types of characters.
Speaker 3: Do you stay in it the whole time? What is
Speaker 3: your process with that?
Speaker 6: No, I mean it depends on how intense it is.
Speaker 6: It's you know, it's hard to you know, because there
Speaker 6: are always people around I mean, I'm not the one
Speaker 6: of that who just stays in it all the time,
Speaker 6: but I do cut myself off, you know, depending on
Speaker 6: how difficult I feel it is, I cut myself and
Speaker 6: it's hard because you know, you've got people talking to you,
Speaker 6: got your crew around you, and that sort of stuff
Speaker 6: says that balance of not appearing rude but staying in
Speaker 6: your space and trying not to you know. So I'm
Speaker 6: not method in that sort of sense when it comes
Speaker 6: to just staying in it, but I'm method in my approach,
Speaker 6: I think in trying to deeply understand where a character
Speaker 6: is coming from and his motivation, his his his whole existence.
Speaker 5: So yes and no is an answer to that.
Speaker 1: I suppose do you like being cast as like characters
Speaker 1: from I mean, you perform, You've done UK television and movies,
Speaker 1: South Africa, Nigeria, the US, I mean people we just
Speaker 1: talked to as If Monvi recently and like he has
Speaker 1: a Americanized sort of British accent because he grew up
Speaker 1: in Britain, and he like when they ask him to
Speaker 1: do the accent. He has like a whole thing where
Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't mind doing it, but sometimes he
Speaker 1: does like, what do you when people ask you to
Speaker 1: play characters from like Nigeria or you know, like these
Speaker 1: kind of characters.
Speaker 3: Do you embrace that kind of work? Are you like?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love it. I mean I love it.
Speaker 6: So I've done all all those characters who put them
Speaker 6: all over and yeah, I love it. You know, once
Speaker 6: the work is there, then I get into it and try,
Speaker 6: I mean and then try and you know, try and
Speaker 6: get the accent down down as quickly as possible and
Speaker 6: as thoroughly as possible. I mean, sometimes it's hard, you
Speaker 6: know that they asked you to do. Like I just
Speaker 6: did a film where I had to do a French
Speaker 6: West African accent. I'm not quite sure how successful it was.
Speaker 6: That the film is good, the film is great, it's
Speaker 6: it's it's nominated for Berlin. I think it went to
Speaker 6: Berlin the film first. So it's a Swedish film and
Speaker 6: I do this French West having which is which is
Speaker 6: quite hard because it's very specific. It's you know, it's French,
Speaker 6: it's West African and he's speaking English and you know,
Speaker 6: and sometimes with those they don't give the actors, you know,
Speaker 6: enough time and enough resources.
Speaker 5: To really delve in deeply enough.
Speaker 6: And that's when I get frust That's when I get
Speaker 6: sort of frustrated because you know, obviously, on the bigger movies,
Speaker 6: when you were start, I give you, you know, months
Speaker 6: and months and months to to to and a voice
Speaker 6: coach and at this coach and that coach. On the
Speaker 6: smaller movies and kind of movies, you know, you're thrown
Speaker 6: in and deepen on your own and you you and
Speaker 6: YouTube the the you know, and that's where it becomes frustrating.
Speaker 6: So but but I love the chat. I love But
Speaker 6: having said that, I mean I will always take the challenge.
Speaker 1: Yeah have you ever done American accent? I would love
Speaker 1: to hear it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you're not. You're not gonna hear it. You're
Speaker 5: not gonna hear it.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I done.
Speaker 5: American many times.
Speaker 3: Your accent is so amazing.
Speaker 1: And then whenever somebody that has like a beautiful accent
Speaker 1: does American, I feel like they're always like hot, like
Speaker 1: HI like they do sort of like a valley, like
Speaker 1: a stupid And.
Speaker 5: I like that mine, mine goes, mine goes south.
Speaker 6: Actually, when I when I intend to go southern, yeah you.
Speaker 5: Know I did, Uh what have I done? I did?
Speaker 6: Roots Roots Roots the remake up Roots, and there I
Speaker 6: played southern Southern gentleman. I did a film called Daylight's End.
Speaker 6: If you want to check my American action out critique
Speaker 6: and it's a really it's a really nice film. It's
Speaker 6: called Daylights Daylight's End. So if you like zombie movies,
Speaker 6: it's a really good zombie movie and you can check
Speaker 6: it out. You can check it out and you can
Speaker 6: critique me. You can critique me from then tell me
Speaker 6: if it's any.
Speaker 2: Good stalking or I m dB. I notice you do
Speaker 2: a lot of video game voiceover. Is that different than
Speaker 2: normal voiceover acting or what's that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a It is very different
Speaker 6: and I love I love doing the voice service.
Speaker 5: It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 6: It can be quite intense and it's different, but it's
Speaker 6: depending on the type of voiceover you're doing. It can
Speaker 6: be quite heightened. So it's not like being on stage,
Speaker 6: and it's not like doing a TV or a film.
Speaker 6: It's it's somewhere in between all of those where you
Speaker 6: have to because it's just a voice, you have to
Speaker 6: heighten everything a bit and and then then give them
Speaker 6: something the characters a bit, A bit more heightened than
Speaker 6: being as naturalistic as you might do on a television
Speaker 6: or a film. Yeah, I just love being in a
Speaker 6: sound studio. It's just a lot of fun. And they
Speaker 6: get you to, you know, because you know, you're really
Speaker 6: putting the effort in there, and they get you to
Speaker 6: do these different you know, not only that you and
Speaker 6: the voice, but you're doing different sort of struggle sounds,
Speaker 6: and you know, and it's it's being paid to be
Speaker 6: really silly sometimes and so it's quite fun.
Speaker 3: Do you play video games?
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 3: Do you play the games you are in now?
Speaker 6: Not at all, Not at all at all. I'm not
Speaker 6: a video game I remember doing the Halo. I did
Speaker 6: the Halo, one of the very first Halos, and people
Speaker 6: were going on and I never played it and I
Speaker 6: never you know, I had no idea about about it
Speaker 6: until I did the video game.
Speaker 1: Well then I also saw you were in you did
Speaker 1: a video game of like a character that you played,
Speaker 1: I think, right, Like, didn't you do the video game
Speaker 1: voice of the same character that you played? And like
Speaker 1: I think the Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, Yes I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'd be fun.
Speaker 1: You get like we've already developed the characters and I'll
Speaker 1: just get in there and do some video game.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, double take. So it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, huge movie, how is it? It was a lot
Speaker 2: of green screen and all that stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I did all my my From what
Speaker 6: I remember, most of my stuff was in the green
Speaker 6: screen and in the Disney stage. And that was when
Speaker 6: I first got to LA. So it was very, very
Speaker 6: very exciting for me in terms of just coming off
Speaker 6: the boat. I was living in South Africa, and I
Speaker 6: just got off the boat more or less from South
Speaker 6: Africa and into the Disney studio there on wherever that
Speaker 6: is in the LA and yeah, straight straight onto set,
Speaker 6: and then there's there's myself my trailers. Next it was outside,
Speaker 6: and Johnny Depp's trailer was next to mine, and then
Speaker 6: Keith Richards was there and here at night he was
Speaker 6: there and and I was you know, Yeah, it was
Speaker 6: quite an amazing thing, and they were all very very lovely,
Speaker 6: and you know, so it was a really lovely just
Speaker 6: a really lovely experience. And then yeah, and then then
Speaker 6: the massive ship that they built inside and a massive
Speaker 6: green screen. Yeah, it was a really amazing experience, especially
Speaker 6: because it was my first my first big I mean
Speaker 6: Hotel One is a big film, but that was my
Speaker 6: first thing in actually in Hollywood itself.
Speaker 2: Well, you're saying love you know, all of these lovely experiences.
Speaker 2: You don't have to name names, but can you tell
Speaker 2: us once since you have so much experience of like
Speaker 2: a nightmare situation or someone that was acting crazy on set?
Speaker 5: You know, I'm going to think about it.
Speaker 6: I don't nothing stands out to anybody acting crazy on
Speaker 6: set in front of me anyway. So, I mean there
Speaker 6: was one case where the actor and is a big actor,
Speaker 6: and I didn't again, you know, I was in South
Speaker 6: Africa and this big a list actor that left everybody
Speaker 6: waiting for you know, and I was on my throne,
Speaker 6: dressed up, ready to go, and the sun's beating down
Speaker 6: and there's hundreds and hundreds of extras, and you know,
Speaker 6: this actor decides to come an hour and a half
Speaker 6: later to set. And I, again, because of my naivety,
Speaker 6: I was very you know, I'm not happy with it.
Speaker 6: And I just said to him, what's wrong with you?
Speaker 6: You kept everybody waiting? And so he just looked at
Speaker 6: me and was like, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you exactly.
Speaker 6: He didn't, but we had. We saw him in the restaurant.
Speaker 6: I don't remember him saying anything. I just remember him
Speaker 6: looking over looking at me, and it wasn't malice. It
Speaker 6: was just like, okay, sorry, good thing and there. And
Speaker 6: then I saw him in the restaurant with his family
Speaker 6: a couple of days later, and he came over and
Speaker 6: we had a good chance. So yeah, but that was
Speaker 6: just weird because I was surprised at the director not
Speaker 6: being a bit more upset. But then, hey, listen, it's
Speaker 6: a big star, you know, Yeah.
Speaker 5: But I didn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, these people need to be called out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, but I give it hasn't happened often.
Speaker 6: And you know, the bigger the star, the more generous
Speaker 6: they are. In my experience, it's lovely. I mean, I've
Speaker 6: got a great story about Don Cheedle when I first
Speaker 6: When I first God, so we were on set and
Speaker 6: I worked closely with him because our characters work closely together,
Speaker 6: and I was like, you know, we were just having
Speaker 6: a chat and he said, oh, yeah, you know, you know,
Speaker 6: if you ever planned to go to America, I said, yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, I'd love to come to America and see
Speaker 6: what it's like and sort of and that was the thing,
Speaker 6: and he said, well, look here, if you come here's
Speaker 6: my number, blah blah blah and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 6: You know, just get in touch and pass. Forward to
Speaker 6: about a year later. The film's about the Cowles come
Speaker 6: out or about to come out, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 6: I'm going to you know, a couple of people said
Speaker 6: you should try America, so I thought, let me try America.
Speaker 5: I get out to America and I'm there and I.
Speaker 6: Think, oh, yeah, I've got this guy's number, and I
Speaker 6: give him a core thing, but thinking, you know, it's
Speaker 6: probably one of those yeah I take my numbers, like
Speaker 6: really call me thing. So I call him up and
Speaker 6: he says, oh, yo, hi, Yeah, listen, I can't come
Speaker 6: out right now, you know, you know, but because I've
Speaker 6: hurt my leg, But why don't you come over to
Speaker 6: the house. So I went over to his house and
Speaker 6: showed him. Now I'm really embarrassed, but I showed him
Speaker 6: my show Lord that I had at the time, which
Speaker 6: I'm sure.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean.
Speaker 6: But he sat there and he watched it, and you know,
Speaker 6: I dragged tea and met his wife and just you know,
Speaker 6: and it just again, and I'll always tell that story,
Speaker 6: just really down to earth and I mean, you know,
Speaker 6: he didn't know me apart from working on the film.
Speaker 6: He give me his number, invites me to his home
Speaker 6: to have tea and coffee and and and and just
Speaker 6: helped me sort of. You know, I had questions about
Speaker 6: what it's like being in America, what it's like being
Speaker 6: black in America as an actor, all of those sort
Speaker 6: of questions, and he just it was fantastic. He just
Speaker 6: sort of answered me and then watched my dreadful show
Speaker 6: real and and it was really polite and it was
Speaker 6: just a lovely yes, yeah, you know, and he again,
Speaker 6: you know, I don't know if if he even remember
Speaker 6: that story, you know, but to me, it was, you know, yeah,
Speaker 6: huge made a big.
Speaker 3: What an amazing introduction to America.
Speaker 1: You get here, you go to Don Cheetle's house for tea,
Speaker 1: you're on the Disney sound stage doing Pirate. The next year,
Speaker 1: you're in New York doing orders, running through the streets,
Speaker 1: getting chased by Christopher Maloney. I mean, yeah, no one's
Speaker 1: had an intro to America like that.
Speaker 2: And then I'm just going through your your IMDb going
Speaker 2: who was the bad celebrity.
Speaker 3: Where did you guys shoot the show Black Sales? You
Speaker 3: were a regular on that show Black Sales? So where
Speaker 3: was that shot?
Speaker 5: That was shot in Cape Town? Actually? Oh wow, that
Speaker 5: was shot in Cape Town.
Speaker 6: So I was, you know, it was nice for me
Speaker 6: because I'd been living in America and then suddenly got
Speaker 6: this regular on this Cape Town which then that's what
Speaker 6: prompted the sort of move back actually sort of thing,
Speaker 6: and that's when I started to commute from Cape Town
Speaker 6: to South Africa.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I was.
Speaker 6: I was in from the LA to cel Abria, but
Speaker 6: I was in the LA and came to Cape Town.
Speaker 6: We shot it on set in the studio, most of
Speaker 6: it on the studio on a lot in the back
Speaker 6: lot of the studio that they just built with a massive,
Speaker 6: massive blue ski screen. But Deck Town ships real sort
Speaker 6: of build real ships that were they built to spec
Speaker 6: and put on the back lot.
Speaker 5: So it was again, it was really interesting.
Speaker 3: And did you work with Zach McGowan.
Speaker 5: I did, and I just there was a retroceress.
Speaker 6: I was just in l A and they did a
Speaker 6: Netflix have just brought uh from just brought the series.
Speaker 6: So they are launching this now launched on it's own
Speaker 6: now on You can watch all four episode four seasons
Speaker 6: on Netflix. Oh cool, so yes, and and Zach was there.
Speaker 5: Zach was there. He's great, a former guest.
Speaker 3: He's been on our podcast.
Speaker 5: There he go.
Speaker 1: I wanted you to know that he was on and
Speaker 1: he's on one of the most classic Law and Order
Speaker 1: s View episodes where he's very sexy floutest.
Speaker 3: He's a professional floutist.
Speaker 1: Was around the world playing flute and wow, you know
Speaker 1: has a bad night, he.
Speaker 3: Has a really bad night. Was a really bad night.
Speaker 5: Uh. Yeah, he's great back and you know, we had
Speaker 5: a great catch up. And you know, he says.
Speaker 6: You got to come and stay, man, you got to
Speaker 6: come and stay see the family and all that sort
Speaker 6: of stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's almost like he's like, We're like, how do
Speaker 1: you stay so jacked? He's like, I drink beer with
Speaker 1: my kids. Like I just play with my kids and
Speaker 1: drink beer. And like he was eat he doesn't.
Speaker 5: Meat, eat meat, just meet raw meat. That's how he
Speaker 5: stays so buzzed.
Speaker 1: And brother jacked man in Hollywood exactly, exactly, very sweet. Well,
Speaker 1: I was reading that you and this is like an
Speaker 1: article from a few years ago, but that you went
Speaker 1: back to Nigeria to like train filmmakers there.
Speaker 5: I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm still involved in that.
Speaker 1: Like bringing helping filmmakers, you know, move up in Nigeria.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean it's not so I'm not so
Speaker 6: much doing the training because I've just been busy, luckily
Speaker 6: being busy just doing my working. But it really is
Speaker 6: about and then now, you know, every now and then
Speaker 6: somebody will ask me to to do a film in
Speaker 6: Nigeria and I'll have a look at them and I
Speaker 6: love a look at the script and then and see
Speaker 6: where they're coming from, and then you know, take it,
Speaker 6: take it. Sort of yes, I'll come, and if you
Speaker 6: don't have to pay me that much, but I'll come
Speaker 6: anywhere because I like it and it'll be a good
Speaker 6: exercise for you and me and so.
Speaker 5: Everyone and I do.
Speaker 6: I do that, And I love being in touch with
Speaker 6: the Nigerian industry, which I feel is growing and has
Speaker 6: so much, so much more potential. And the idea of
Speaker 6: beginning to tell our African stories from an African perspective
Speaker 6: in an African way, it's very very.
Speaker 5: Exciting to me.
Speaker 6: So I want to be part of that revolution evolution
Speaker 6: as well. So this is why I keep going back
Speaker 6: and done doing it and also creating my own stuff
Speaker 6: as well, which I'm beginning to do got TV series
Speaker 6: which I've just begun to what I've worked on during
Speaker 6: the strike. And you know, now we're fuming out and
Speaker 6: getting a little bit of interest in the film, which
Speaker 6: I'm very passionate about, and they're all ready to sort
Speaker 6: of now get people to have a look at and
Speaker 6: see if we can get any interest.
Speaker 5: So that's exciting.
Speaker 6: And they all are all sort of Afro centric, apro conscious,
Speaker 6: so that's where I'm That's where I want my work
Speaker 6: to sort of expand into.
Speaker 2: Do you I'm looking at your upcoming Do you want
Speaker 2: to plug anything that's coming out?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, I will plug something out because I've just
Speaker 6: directed my first movie, so my first feature film. I've
Speaker 6: never directed before, and I directed the first feature film
Speaker 6: and it's called It's the Blackness. It's the Blackness, yes,
Speaker 6: and hopefully it will come out towards.
Speaker 5: The end of this year.
Speaker 6: We're busy doing finishing off the edit now and it
Speaker 6: was all shot in London and it's again it's a
Speaker 6: Nigerian space and a Nigerian British student and a Jamaican
Speaker 6: Jamaican student who come out of university and try and
Speaker 6: get jobs in the in the UK, in the system,
Speaker 6: and they finally they come up against a glass ceiling.
Speaker 6: And so it's a story about sort of love and family.
Speaker 6: It's a comedy and also institutional and institutional racism and
Speaker 6: you know, and and things like that. It's a really
Speaker 6: lovely little comic but done in a you know, a
Speaker 6: humorous way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and your stars are cute.
Speaker 1: These guys want to make it a grand guy, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah. I love the wardrobe, looking at the picks.
Speaker 3: The wardrobe already is yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So that's that's my first foray into into being behind
Speaker 6: the camera instead of in front of it.
Speaker 1: And where can where did you say it's going to
Speaker 1: be available?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it will be available hopefully towards the end of
Speaker 6: this year. We're not sure where, but yeah, hopefully books
Speaker 6: towards the end of this year.
Speaker 3: It will be available and eye out for it.
Speaker 5: Thank you, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, our first interview from Africa. We've talked
Speaker 1: to somebody who's been and now we got to keep
Speaker 1: knocking off continents.
Speaker 3: This is great. Thank you.
Speaker 1: We know you're jet lagged, and we really appreciate you
Speaker 1: taking the time to talk to.
Speaker 2: Us and watch your episode. It'll be a nice warmer episode.
Speaker 5: I will do yes, I will do.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: He really did give us tea no names, but tea
Speaker 2: is good no names.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we you know you can cross reference with the
Speaker 1: IMDb's Yeah, we love our detective work. Damn this episode
Speaker 1: so wild. I just like, didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't.
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen this one in a while, even though
Speaker 1: I've seen it so many times, and I was like, ohyah,
Speaker 1: I forgot that the lawyer lady does it that the
Speaker 1: lawyer wife does it crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you really do think it's method man for most
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, let's not judge a rapper by
Speaker 1: his cover even though he was a criminal.
Speaker 3: He was a criminal. He killed c Yeah, you're dead.
Speaker 3: You're dead. Everyone you love is dead. I mean the
Speaker 3: acting's great.
Speaker 2: He did save the fifteen year old, but then he
Speaker 2: did fall in love with her, like I'm sorry, it's
Speaker 2: I know, oh not to go back to Instagram and
Speaker 2: the hell that they feed me. But it was like
Speaker 2: a man on the street and they were like, if
Speaker 2: there weren't laws, how young would you want to like
Speaker 2: have relations with a person. And this guy said ten
Speaker 2: on camera, like what like what what? That's crazy. It's
Speaker 2: just we're we're going back. We're going back to the
Speaker 2: dark agent. No, I get ready, get ready motherfuckers? I mean,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I guess the post mortem on this
Speaker 1: is like, I don't I don't see how polygamy works.
Speaker 3: I really don't.
Speaker 1: Like if it's not gonna be the man doing something
Speaker 1: fucked up like what happened in the real crime, it's
Speaker 1: the women are killing each other like what happened in
Speaker 1: the episode.
Speaker 3: Just don't get married or stick to one wife at
Speaker 3: a time.
Speaker 2: I have multiple. Everyone gets to fuck each other. Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. It has to be a full equal
Speaker 2: society for me to think that polygamy works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a twenty person pollocule that they just talked
Speaker 1: to in New York Magazine.
Speaker 3: I think a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 2: I've been subscribing, I've been getting the paper ones have
Speaker 2: I read one full article.
Speaker 1: No, I cannot happened to me when I got Vanity
Speaker 1: Fair and then they just stacked up and I would
Speaker 1: bring them to pools and then I would just talk
Speaker 1: the whole time, Like you know, it's like when am
Speaker 1: I reading a magazine?
Speaker 3: Come on anyway, a wild episode. Let's wait.
Speaker 2: I wanted to what's this pot? Will you say? What's
Speaker 2: in this pollocule?
Speaker 3: Or whatever? I just literally saw the Instagram.
Speaker 1: There's twenty people that are in a relationship with each other,
Speaker 1: and it's like the articles about like the inner workings
Speaker 1: of like how these twenty people all fuck each other
Speaker 1: and are in a pollocule?
Speaker 3: But I don't I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: You gotta flip open your paper copy and see what happened.
Speaker 3: I know, I don't know. Maybe they're on a drug
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: I think it's possible, but it needs to be like
Speaker 2: full equality.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've been hanging out with a thrupple a.
Speaker 2: Lot, and one can't be fifteen. Yeah, I didn't know
Speaker 2: your friends with a threatle.
Speaker 1: I'm friends with a throupple through other friends and I've
Speaker 1: been hanging out with them a lot, and they're really
Speaker 1: cool and they seem like they're having a very uh,
Speaker 1: equally balanced relationship and it's all good.
Speaker 2: So I know someone that would date a couple, but
Speaker 2: they're never the main But then they all broke up
Speaker 2: and she just ended up dating the woman.
Speaker 3: I think that they are all together, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, full it's full full throutble anyway, Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think right now people are also like
Speaker 2: like old single people are living together now too. Yeah,
Speaker 2: do what you gotta do, you know, I know, I
Speaker 2: just I hate the idea that everyone was forced into
Speaker 2: this like specific way when you know it seems like
Speaker 2: it it's.
Speaker 3: Different for people. Yeah, yeah, for sure, it's just so
Speaker 3: it's just weird to me.
Speaker 2: Like monogamy any No, I mean in terms of like
Speaker 2: just forcing anything, because like what if these people that
Speaker 2: are like friends and older, they love the way they live,
Speaker 2: and then they start a religion and start forcing everyone
Speaker 2: to do it, and if you don't do it, you're
Speaker 2: shunned out of society and you can't come to this church.
Speaker 2: And if you're it's like, you know, that would be
Speaker 2: seen bonkers. You know, you're laughing at it. But then
Speaker 2: the but we do it the other like so many way.
Speaker 2: I just don't get the mentality. Going back to that
Speaker 2: guy doing this speech, like yah, dude, if your wife
Speaker 2: loves being at home watching you crush it gets full
Speaker 2: joy gets joy.
Speaker 3: From God cleaning and your children. I can't.
Speaker 2: I am so happy for her that she's living this
Speaker 2: blessed life with the two of you.
Speaker 3: Why do you got to get and try to fuck
Speaker 3: up it?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: Why do you think everyone wants that? Yeah? Like, I
Speaker 3: just don't.
Speaker 2: Get the the thing inside of you that says this
Speaker 2: is the right way with genital mutilation. Yeah, if you
Speaker 2: want to cut your clid off, and as you're an adult,
Speaker 2: that's great. I don't get why other women, Like why
Speaker 2: you think everyone's got to do it? Yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about peer pressure and the crusades.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't even know what I'm trying
Speaker 3: to say. No, he pisses me off.
Speaker 2: That people have like shame and gil and spiral and
Speaker 2: have to escape these constructs to just be who they are.
Speaker 3: We just don't want people to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just trying to homogenize any group and make them
Speaker 1: do what you do is fucked.
Speaker 3: We hate that. We don't like that.
Speaker 2: And to bring it up into a fun thing. I
Speaker 2: was at the Georgia o'keith Museum. I was very inspired
Speaker 2: and she you know, she was an individual through and
Speaker 2: through for all her all her years.
Speaker 3: She died at ninety six.
Speaker 2: Wow, you know she was wearing her hair up in
Speaker 2: a bun before anyone did. She was out there traveling alone,
Speaker 2: like doing art, finding her voice, pro lift thousands of
Speaker 2: pieces of work. Wasn't precious, loved every like just.
Speaker 3: Fucking did it? You know that's cool?
Speaker 1: She just and it was really and God, she didn't
Speaker 1: go to a college where a Kansas City chief's kicker
Speaker 1: was the commencement speaker, because maybe she wouldn't have done
Speaker 1: any of that, you know, So she.
Speaker 2: Was I forgot where she was born. But then they
Speaker 2: moved to Virginia. She went to some like girls hoity
Speaker 2: toity school. She ended up going toll like a ton
Speaker 2: of colleges. But she went to the Art Institute of Chicago.
Speaker 2: Oh and so that's really exciting. And then she went
Speaker 2: to New York to study more. I think she must
Speaker 2: have come for money. She did a lot of schooling,
Speaker 2: and then she met her husband of many years, who
Speaker 2: was like a photographer and took photos of her, and
Speaker 2: he had a gallery and then a photos of her.
Speaker 2: She was one of the most photographed women of her time.
Speaker 2: She was like everyone knew of her and he just
Speaker 2: took so many photos of her everywhere, and her fashion
Speaker 2: was really cool, and she cooked and was inspired by
Speaker 2: photography and different things. But that's how she became so
Speaker 2: well known, and then her artwork, and then once he died,
Speaker 2: she went to Santa Fe full time. She went every
Speaker 2: year twice, so you're for like twenty years, and once
Speaker 2: he died, she went there for the rest of her
Speaker 2: life and loved Santa Fe.
Speaker 3: I love that you're like this huge ture Joe Keefe historian. Now, well,
Speaker 3: I didn't know it was just this one museum.
Speaker 2: Well, I also love You're gonna love how this ties
Speaker 2: back to me and that when you first walk in
Speaker 2: the description of her on the wall, like you know,
Speaker 2: I've read everything that's in the museum is very particular
Speaker 2: about framing.
Speaker 3: She framed most of her own.
Speaker 2: Work, and even the ones that aren't are made to
Speaker 2: her like specifications or style, but very into framing. And
Speaker 2: she collected everything and has all these quotes that like,
Speaker 2: spaces should be filled with things that you love. And
Speaker 2: in this museum they had a box of shells that
Speaker 2: she collected, and she like collected things, and she just yeah,
Speaker 2: so I love like I did start crying at her
Speaker 2: box of shells.
Speaker 3: I was worrying. That's so cute.
Speaker 2: I also could believe, you know, when you're seeing things
Speaker 2: that this woman wore and did.
Speaker 3: Oh, and like she loves stuff so much. She don't
Speaker 3: want to waste anything.
Speaker 2: She found snake bones and she built them into a
Speaker 2: bench like a full coiled snake she into and clear
Speaker 2: she like built it into a like the seating thing
Speaker 2: in her home because she didn't want to waste anything.
Speaker 3: Wow, well, that that resonates with me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not I don't like to waste I
Speaker 1: like to use all parts of the buffalo if I can.
Speaker 2: She kept the horns. She like she would analyze one
Speaker 2: thing like.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I was just really inspired by her.
Speaker 2: But also they had because it was Mother's Day, they
Speaker 2: had a lot of activities and so they had a
Speaker 2: thing where you can make postcards. Obviously, I sent one
Speaker 2: to my mom and I sent it to our friend
Speaker 2: who loves art. But they had like flower stickers and
Speaker 2: colored pencils and like, and so then there was a
Speaker 2: bunch of old women I was sitting with and they
Speaker 2: were talking, and one of the old women, she was
Speaker 2: there with her grandkids, I mean, I can go on
Speaker 2: and I'll stop, but she was. They were just saying
Speaker 2: how difficult it is to be yourself, like, how hard
Speaker 2: is to be authentically yourself out in the world and
Speaker 2: especially back then, and how cool it was that we
Speaker 2: were like in the museum of this woman because so
Speaker 2: many women that were badass has forgotten anonymous, gone forever,
Speaker 2: and she.
Speaker 3: Just you know, it's cool because everyone just thinks, oh.
Speaker 2: It's these flowers that look like vaginas, I think what
Speaker 2: people deduce her work to. And it's just I didn't
Speaker 2: get like that wasn't it at all.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought it was just all of these like flowers,
Speaker 2: everything was going to look like a vagina. And it's
Speaker 2: like she just she painted energy, the energy of things
Speaker 2: in magnified ways. I don't know, it was just it
Speaker 2: was really incredible and I'm glad I got to stay
Speaker 2: in Santa Fe for one more day.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: Wow, because it's like a very very convincing ad for
Speaker 1: the Santa Fe Georgia O'Keefe Museum because I want to
Speaker 1: go now.
Speaker 3: Not enough art.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like the free to callo they had
Speaker 2: at the Brooklyn Museum where it is amazing to see
Speaker 2: her casts her like her stuff, her wardrobe, her things,
Speaker 2: the photos, the papers, and some art. But there it's
Speaker 2: very that's not that big, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like I wish I want to go where there's the
Speaker 2: she has thousands of pieces, and so now I'm curious
Speaker 2: to see where the like the big, big collections are.
Speaker 3: But I know some at the Chicago Art Institute of hers,
Speaker 3: but I know.
Speaker 2: But I have no memory of it because to me,
Speaker 2: I think I was like, she's a joke.
Speaker 3: That's what I got from it, like, oh, she's overrated.
Speaker 2: She's just a famous woman who paints flowers that look
Speaker 2: like vaginas. And then I asked our friend, I go,
Speaker 2: I'm debating about all these museums because I was looking
Speaker 2: into a few, and I go the Georgia o'keef. She goes,
Speaker 2: she is a hero, she is amazing, like she is
Speaker 2: all this stuff. So that's why I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: because our friend's a snob. So I was like, if
Speaker 2: she says that this woman is like, so I I
Speaker 2: gotta go. And she was right on the money there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But it's also it kind of relates to how your
Speaker 2: parents talks about like monocle Win's heroes or like ah
Speaker 2: this fun, yeah, this fucking woman.
Speaker 1: Or Dolly Parton was like just a set of tits
Speaker 1: or whatever. No, sorry, I beg to differ, and so
Speaker 1: I grew up.
Speaker 2: I'm thirty six now thinking that, oh whatever, she's not
Speaker 2: that good. And then it's like you're just I'm like
Speaker 2: looking at these colors that she's creating, and I was brought.
Speaker 3: I was like fully crying in this museum, like multiple time.
Speaker 3: It was like it's just yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, me and the snobby art friend were just getting
Speaker 1: drunk at.
Speaker 2: A pool for Mother's Day. Oh my god, mother's dy.
Speaker 2: In the intro, I'm like the worst person.
Speaker 3: Oh it's fine. I don't care. I can't believe I
Speaker 3: didn't bring up Mother's Day. I don't care. I don't care.
Speaker 2: Well, what did you do? Tell me about I saw
Speaker 2: the artworker kids made? Okay, before we end on the
Speaker 2: what and you go into what was the ster pegtoo?
Speaker 3: Please tell us about Mother's Day? Oh it was fun.
Speaker 1: I like woke up and I had breakfast with my
Speaker 1: kids and they gave me some crafts that Jared made
Speaker 1: with them specifically the day before and they like a
Speaker 1: little paper bouquet of flowers with Oscar's handprints on them
Speaker 1: and stuff.
Speaker 3: It was really cute. But then Rosie went Rogan did
Speaker 3: her own.
Speaker 1: Thing, and then our friend uh and I went to
Speaker 1: like a hotel and just got like a day pass
Speaker 1: and like hung out and just had fun and swam
Speaker 1: and then we went and got sushi and it was fun.
Speaker 3: It was just like you know.
Speaker 1: Your normal hotel or did you We went to a
Speaker 1: different one. We went to one downtown. Okay, yeah, we
Speaker 1: didn't go to the normal one. We're both trying to
Speaker 1: save a little money these days.
Speaker 3: The downtown one was it was but it was nice.
Speaker 1: It was cool actually, and there was like barely anybody there,
Speaker 1: which was really nice. Like it was not like a
Speaker 1: lot of kids cannon bawling and stuff.
Speaker 3: Like that like that good sushi. Yeah, no kids, oh
Speaker 3: no kids.
Speaker 1: There were like two little girls there with their parents,
Speaker 1: but they were well behaved and our kids were not
Speaker 1: with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah for sure. And then the met what do
Speaker 3: the men do? They got back together. They got together.
Speaker 1: They took them on a picnic at this playground and
Speaker 1: then they went back to their house for like a
Speaker 1: little pizza dinner so cute.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you felt relaxed and celebrated.
Speaker 1: Yes, And it was really it was relaxed. Like the
Speaker 1: next I like didn't think I drank that much. Then
Speaker 1: the next day woke up and I was like, I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like I've.
Speaker 3: Been hit by a truck.
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of debate again online. I have
Speaker 2: to remember the internet is not the real world. But
Speaker 2: it was like, suddenly all these people are like Mother's
Speaker 2: Days for mothers in the trenches.
Speaker 3: It's not for your mother or mother in laws. It's
Speaker 3: for me. And I'm like, every dynamic is.
Speaker 2: Different and every family and everyone's wants are different, Like
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: Going back to like like people try Mother's Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like what if what hey, news flash, what
Speaker 2: if you don't hate your mother's Yeah, what if it's
Speaker 2: a joy to be with your mother's and your kids
Speaker 2: and everyone hangs.
Speaker 3: Out like fuck off?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And some people, I you know, I love the
Speaker 2: way you guys do it. You take the kids. I'm
Speaker 2: out like that. That was that was new to me.
Speaker 2: That's like our general Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because some people are like I just want to do
Speaker 1: something spending time with my kids, and I'm like, sorry,
Speaker 1: I want the afternoon off.
Speaker 3: I want to be I want to do my own thing.
Speaker 1: I want to like, you know, do like I just
Speaker 1: have fun and not worry about them for an afternoon
Speaker 1: because I'm worry about them all the time.
Speaker 3: You know, how is uh Tricians? Oh yeah, Mother's days.
Speaker 3: Mother's Day. Oh it was so much fun.
Speaker 7: It was just us too and little patients and we
Speaker 7: went out for breakfast and yeah, it was just so
Speaker 7: it was just a very calm, special day hanging out
Speaker 7: with the baby.
Speaker 3: So it was nice. It's cute.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Do you call her anything or is it full time patience.
Speaker 7: We were thinking her nickname would be Pippy pippies, so cute,
Speaker 7: but when we met her, we're like, you're not You're
Speaker 7: not Pippy. I don't know, maybe that'll come out still,
Speaker 7: but we have. We even call her little pee.
Speaker 1: Uh that's what our friends, our friend's daughters call their
Speaker 1: little lovies, their pippies, and like, that's what I think
Speaker 1: about when I hear like pippy.
Speaker 3: It's like their little love that they love. All that's
Speaker 3: so cute. All right, lettle be patty. I hate to
Speaker 3: do this.
Speaker 1: I hate to go right from a beautiful Mother's Day
Speaker 1: celebrated reation talk into what would Sister Peg do, our
Speaker 1: weekly segment where we direct you towards an organization or
Speaker 1: a podcast episode or a movie, a documentary, something to
Speaker 1: give you more information about we talk today, and we
Speaker 1: wanted to point you to an article from UNSEF the
Speaker 1: United Nations Children's Fun about female genital mutilation and what
Speaker 1: they're doing to stop it. I'm sorry to make this
Speaker 1: jump from one topic to the other, but we thought
Speaker 1: this was important. Even though female general mutilation is not
Speaker 1: endorsed by Islam or Christianity, at least two hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty million girls and women from thirty one countries across
Speaker 1: three continents have been subjected to the practice, so UNISEF
Speaker 1: provides access to medical and psychological care for survivors, and
Speaker 1: with the establishment of UNFPA UNICEF Joint Program on the
Speaker 1: Elimination of Female Genital Mutilation, they're working to eliminate the
Speaker 1: practice once and for all. So if you want more information,
Speaker 1: get head over to UNISEF dot org. That's you n
Speaker 1: i CEF dot org and that will as always be
Speaker 1: posted in our stories.
Speaker 3: In our WWSPD highlight that.
Speaker 2: Actually was the most shocking jump from topic to topic.
Speaker 2: I would say on this whole podcast, sorry, which is
Speaker 2: saying a lot, but that is the number one had
Speaker 2: to job race jo.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: But UNICEF was huge when I was in elementary school.
Speaker 2: We raised I always had like for we would trick
Speaker 2: or treat for UNISEF, Like I would have my candy
Speaker 2: bag and I'd have a little box penny box, right. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: UNICEF has been a big part of my, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of our lives for a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can donate at that link as well,
Speaker 1: like it's a it's a great organization.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and next week we will be doing Deception from
Speaker 2: season four, episode two, and we're obsessed with all of you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening as always, and we're we are starting
Speaker 2: to get into TikTok so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, message us your content requests. We love you guys,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: My That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the
Speaker 1: podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod. And on
Speaker 1: Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Speaker 1: Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please see
Speaker 1: our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Speaker 1: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to.
Speaker 2: Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen Andrews
Speaker 2: for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media, the Time.
Speaker 2: Yahm