Speaker 1: Teething can be a real nightmare for your little ones.
Speaker 1: Highlands Naturals Baby oral pain relief tablets can help ease
Speaker 1: the pain. It's gentle, natural active ingredients like camemeo and
Speaker 1: arnica suite your baby's mouth, and gums made with ingredients
Speaker 1: derived from plant minerals and other sources free of harsh chemicals.
Speaker 1: You can count on Highlands for serious pain relief for
Speaker 1: your teething baby. Highlands is a kinder way to care
Speaker 1: for teething. Visit Highlands dot com slash kind that's h
Speaker 1: y l a n ds dot com. Slash kind claims
Speaker 1: based on traditional homeopathrocractice, not accept the medical evidence, not
Speaker 1: ft evaluated. Hi. I'm Abne Moone and I'm Ricked Schwartz
Speaker 1: and we're here from the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance,
Speaker 1: the global conservation organization behind the world chame of San
Speaker 1: Diego Zoo and Safari Park, and together we're excited to
Speaker 1: announce the podcast Amazing Wildlife. Here incredible stories about wildlife
Speaker 1: and the global efforts to save it as we explore
Speaker 1: the connection between humans, wildlife, and the environment. Listen to
Speaker 1: Amazing Wildlife. I'm I heart Radio app Apple podcast or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts easier mental and physical stresses
Speaker 1: with the natural ingredients of Infinite c D d R
Speaker 1: CBD products are all manufactured in house, infused for consistency,
Speaker 1: and available in a wide range of easy to use forms.
Speaker 1: Visit infinite cbd dot com and start feeling better today.
Speaker 1: It is so warm in my neighborhood today that I
Speaker 1: thought I would just get some water in this little
Speaker 1: pond and cool off my feet. In May of nine,
Speaker 1: Mr Rogers Neighborhood has only been on TV for a
Speaker 1: little more than a year. Mr Rogers arrives to his
Speaker 1: house carrying a kiddie pool. Let's now go get the water,
Speaker 1: all right. Of course, it's not a hot summer day.
Speaker 1: Mr Rogers has taped in a sound stage at w
Speaker 1: q e D in Pittsburgh, and the episode aired early
Speaker 1: in May, so it was probably taped somewhere around mid April,
Speaker 1: if not earlier. Some children think that when you grow up,
Speaker 1: you don't really care for cool water on your feet
Speaker 1: on a hot day. And I can tell you, as
Speaker 1: a Pittsburgh native, April in Pittsburgh is not summer, but
Speaker 1: I do. Yeah, So why is Fred so hot? Oh?
Speaker 1: There's Officer Clemmons. High. Officer Clemens, come in mine, won't
Speaker 1: you sit down? Officer Clemens is the friendly neighborhood cop
Speaker 1: who stops by now and again for a visit with
Speaker 1: Mr Rogers, and he's black. Not only is it unusual
Speaker 1: to have a black authority figure on TV in the
Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties, but his role makes Officer Clemens the
Speaker 1: only black recurring character on all of children's television at
Speaker 1: the time. It's so warm, I was just putting some
Speaker 1: water on my feet. Oh it sure is. Would you
Speaker 1: like to join me? It looks awten enjoyable. But I
Speaker 1: don't have a towel or anything. Oh you share mine? Okay? Sure. France,
Speaker 1: while removes his tall military boots, rolls up his pants,
Speaker 1: and Mr Rogers gently soaks Francoise feet with the hose
Speaker 1: that feels better already. A few years before this, in
Speaker 1: a group of black teenagers protested segregation at a Florida motel.
Speaker 1: They didn't do it by picketing or by sitting on
Speaker 1: the lobby floor. They protested by jumping in the motel
Speaker 1: pool for swim who water on a hot day. The
Speaker 1: motel's owner, James Brock, responded by pouring what he said
Speaker 1: was muriatic acid into the pool with the intention of
Speaker 1: burning the protesters. The teens they were later arrested by
Speaker 1: Florida police. Swimming pools remained a hotly contested space throughout
Speaker 1: the so called Civil rights era, and that probably is
Speaker 1: why Fred Rogers was so hot in April in Pittsburgh
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine. Is that enough? Well, I know
Speaker 1: how busy you are, but sometimes just a minute like this,
Speaker 1: we'll really make a difference. That we have great boots
Speaker 1: to fill office with. Clemon, thanks you stopping by, so
Speaker 1: have a good day, bye bye. Great to live in
Speaker 1: a neighborhood with special people like Officer Clements. I'll bet
Speaker 1: you there weren't ten white men in this country who
Speaker 1: would share a towel with a black man. Here in America,
Speaker 1: being black sometimes really presented a problem. And those swimming
Speaker 1: pools people were behaving in a very, very unkind way.
Speaker 1: And I talked to Fred about that, how helpless they
Speaker 1: made me feel, and he said, we'll see, We'll see
Speaker 1: what we can do. Francois, we hear a lot about
Speaker 1: empathy these days. The word is everywhere. Really T shirts
Speaker 1: and toad bags and Instagram accounts, all reminding us that
Speaker 1: we can choose empathy, as if that's all it takes
Speaker 1: to fix a world that so often feels broken. But
Speaker 1: if we want to change the world, then we have
Speaker 1: to take our empathy and do something with it. I'm
Speaker 1: Carvel Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about
Speaker 1: Fred Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership
Speaker 1: with Transmitter Media. Yeah, the entirety of the episode in
Speaker 1: which Fred silks Francoise feet is incredibly simple, but it's
Speaker 1: also incredibly powerful. Fred was a master of modeling good
Speaker 1: behavior for kids because he knew just how effective modeling
Speaker 1: could be. Here he is in an interview from I
Speaker 1: was at this nursery school and the director had invited
Speaker 1: this man to come and sculpt in front of the children.
Speaker 1: She said, I don't want you teaching sculpting. I want
Speaker 1: you simply to sit with the children and do what
Speaker 1: you feel you'd like to do with the clay. Well,
Speaker 1: the kids started using clay that medium in the most
Speaker 1: wonderful ways. And that wouldn't have happened if this gifted
Speaker 1: sculptor hadn't loved clay. Right in front of them. This
Speaker 1: idea of just doing what you love in front of
Speaker 1: people as a way of teaching it, of spreading it.
Speaker 1: Loving the Clay, as Fred would later call it, has
Speaker 1: been sitting with me since I first heard it. It
Speaker 1: echoes ideas I've heard in so many disparate contexts, show
Speaker 1: don't tell attraction rather than promotion. So in that sense,
Speaker 1: it's a timeless, almost interfaith concept, like love that neighbor
Speaker 1: or do oneto others. And the other thing about it
Speaker 1: is that rather than pushing me to become some hero,
Speaker 1: some great leader of men, the idea of loving the
Speaker 1: Clay just calls on me to be the best version
Speaker 1: of myself that I can be, and then to let
Speaker 1: that be seen. My favorite like recurring Mr Rogers moment
Speaker 1: is him feeding his fish. This is my friend Eve
Speaker 1: Ewing Eve as a scholar and a writer and a
Speaker 1: fessor and a poet and a comic book writer. She's
Speaker 1: like everything, you don't just be writing, you know, I
Speaker 1: just write like essays and stuff as well, and about
Speaker 1: those fish. Let's feed the fish. Whenever he feeds the fish,
Speaker 1: there's like this little jazz piano riff that plays. Give
Speaker 1: them a little food mimicking like the actions of the
Speaker 1: fish as they go up and like open and close
Speaker 1: their mouths to get the food. Seeing this adult engage
Speaker 1: in this small moment of caring for another living creature
Speaker 1: that requires just like a pause of patience and quiet
Speaker 1: is just so beautiful to me. He was showing us
Speaker 1: how to be good, not just through saying like be good,
Speaker 1: don't do drugs, don't rob people, or whatever, but actually
Speaker 1: just like doing it, like feeding the fish, or helping
Speaker 1: your neighbor with something, or being nice to somebody that
Speaker 1: you know that other people are maybe not nice to
Speaker 1: all the time. Tell me more about the role that
Speaker 1: Fred Rogers played in your childhood. I know that you're
Speaker 1: calling him Fred for this podcast, but I can't bring
Speaker 1: myself to do that. I haven't begivener he never got
Speaker 1: it and get no permission to call this derive by
Speaker 1: his first name. Well, you know, that's a lot. I
Speaker 1: think he's just you know, somebody that I can say
Speaker 1: that's always been there in my life in the same
Speaker 1: way that Maria and Gordon from Sesame Street have always
Speaker 1: been there. There's a way in which that can sound
Speaker 1: like kind of sad that these TV adults played this
Speaker 1: role in my life, but my mom was working full
Speaker 1: time out of the house and my dad was home
Speaker 1: with me. And he will say quite proudly and candidly
Speaker 1: that his strategy was to basically like, have me watch
Speaker 1: PBS all day, and he will attribute much of my
Speaker 1: success as an adult to this parenting strategy. But I
Speaker 1: think that I think as an adult, I've come to
Speaker 1: realize that that was very intentional, That these were adults
Speaker 1: entering my life that I could view as like trustworthy,
Speaker 1: carrying adults, even if I didn't know them personally. That
Speaker 1: that I see that now in retrospects like a form
Speaker 1: of public intervention or like a public service. That was
Speaker 1: very intentional. M. Fred Rogers was one of the first
Speaker 1: makers of TV You to recognize that it could be
Speaker 1: a constant positive presence for kids who didn't always have
Speaker 1: that at home. He liked to say that attitudes are caught,
Speaker 1: not taught. It's what happens when you watch someone love
Speaker 1: the clay in front of you. And he didn't just
Speaker 1: demonstrate how to work with the clay, or tie your
Speaker 1: shoes or draw with crayons. He actually showed kids that
Speaker 1: doing the right thing can make them feel good. One
Speaker 1: thing I've learned in my forty five years on this
Speaker 1: planet is that doing the right thing does not always
Speaker 1: feel good. Sometimes it can take a lot of effort
Speaker 1: to overcome habit or instinct to do the right thing.
Speaker 1: One of the key ways that Mr Rogers showed us
Speaker 1: how to be good was accepting people, accepting people as
Speaker 1: they are, and that, for me, is one of the
Speaker 1: most difficult lessons from Fred Rogers. It's particularly difficult these
Speaker 1: days with Nazis marching in the streets and conspiracy theorists
Speaker 1: on cable news. If being good means accepting those people
Speaker 1: as they are, well, first, I'm not sure if I
Speaker 1: can do it. But am I supposed to do it?
Speaker 1: Is it supposed to feel good? I have been thinking
Speaker 1: a lot about just how to understand this moment and
Speaker 1: also how to understand where Fred fits into that. And
Speaker 1: one specific question that I've been asking everyone is that
Speaker 1: Fred has this? Uh not now I feel selfconscious calling Fred,
Speaker 1: But Fred has this. I know your parents are not
Speaker 1: raised you to call. We're gonna let that go. We're
Speaker 1: gonna have to edit this im post um. There's this
Speaker 1: thing about I like you the way you are or
Speaker 1: it's you I like, it's you I like, and these
Speaker 1: are these are really and this is a really fascinating
Speaker 1: for me theological concept. I even ask my therapist about this,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what about the bad people? Like?
Speaker 1: What about it doesn't matter? And I wonder how you
Speaker 1: parse that out. The idea that we are not accepting
Speaker 1: and tolerating of certain people's behavior because it does harm
Speaker 1: the least of us. Man, that's so tricky. Um. I'm
Speaker 1: not a theologian, although I've spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: around theologians. So my non theologian reading of that is
Speaker 1: that's the idea of grace. That's what grace is, right,
Speaker 1: the idea that God's love is unconditional, and that you're
Speaker 1: great just the way you are, just just by being you.
Speaker 1: That's enough. Now, I think that there's a subtle difference
Speaker 1: between that idea and saying that everything you do is fine. Right.
Speaker 1: So to me, what I hear when I hear it's
Speaker 1: you I like or the idea of loving people unconditionally
Speaker 1: is that I don't believe in monsters. I really don't.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that the vast majority of people who
Speaker 1: do harm do so because they're inhuman. I I believe
Speaker 1: that people harm others for so many complicated reasons that
Speaker 1: usually have to do with some variation of they themselves
Speaker 1: have been harmed and have never been given any opportunity
Speaker 1: to heal from that harm, or because our society disregards
Speaker 1: others because they're considered marginal. Now that being said, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as the old saying goes, like Jesus loves you,
Speaker 1: Jesus forgives you. That doesn't mean I have to you know,
Speaker 1: Mr Rogers, ministry doesn't have to be everybody's ministry. So
Speaker 1: Mr Rogers as a person who came out and said,
Speaker 1: I love everybody unconditionally, and that's not something everybody is
Speaker 1: able to do. And that is okay, you know, I
Speaker 1: think that that's fine. Accepting people as they are is
Speaker 1: a lofty goal. Not everyone is able to do that.
Speaker 1: I guess most of us can't always do that, and
Speaker 1: sometimes it's way more complicated than just accepting someone. How
Speaker 1: do you accept someone when the thing that they're doing
Speaker 1: is hurting you or hurting your family or your community.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Teething can be a real nightmare
Speaker 1: for your little ones. So are you looking for the
Speaker 1: best relief to soothe teething pain or Highlands Naturals Baby
Speaker 1: oral pain relief can help us the pain. It's gentle,
Speaker 1: natural active ingredients like cameramil and arnica. They'll soothe your
Speaker 1: baby's mouth and gums. No chemicals, no funny business. Highlands
Speaker 1: is a kinder way to care for teething Get yours
Speaker 1: at Highlands dot com, slash kind that's h y l
Speaker 1: A and d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based
Speaker 1: on traditional homeopath a practices. Not accept the medical evidence,
Speaker 1: not ft evaluated. Advertising is online and delivered where you are.
Speaker 1: Just like this radio ad. I want to know what
Speaker 1: else is delivered where you are. We'll give you a hint.
Speaker 1: It's shining as a honk and comes with special features
Speaker 1: that you get to personally pick out, like leather or cloth,
Speaker 1: sunroof or moonroof, or four wheel drivers all wheel drive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a car, A CarMax car, Buy online, get it delivered
Speaker 1: to you. It's car buying reimagined Carmacks available within a
Speaker 1: sixty mile radius of select doors. See carmacks dot com
Speaker 1: for details. Some restrictions apply. It's impossible to escape the
Speaker 1: news about the climate crisis. These days. But all those
Speaker 1: headlines can be frustrating. What are we as individuals able
Speaker 1: to deal about it? Luckily, you can take the first
Speaker 1: step with rend. We're a website. Does it help you
Speaker 1: calculate your carbon footprint so you can offset it by
Speaker 1: funding projects that plant trees, protect the rainforest and more.
Speaker 1: Just head to rent dot c O, w r e
Speaker 1: N dot c O, answer a few questions about your lifestyle,
Speaker 1: figure out the size of your carbon footprint, and learn
Speaker 1: how to reduce it. Since no one can reduce their
Speaker 1: carbon footprints a zero, you can also offset it on
Speaker 1: top of reducing it. And once you sign up to
Speaker 1: make a monthly contribution to offset your carbon footprint, you'll
Speaker 1: get monthly updates from the tree planting, brainforce protection and
Speaker 1: carbon removal projects you support. You get to see the
Speaker 1: trees you plant it and what your money has spent on.
Speaker 1: It will take a lot to in the climate crisis,
Speaker 1: but you can start helping today with brend. Go to
Speaker 1: rent dot c O w r e N dot ceo
Speaker 1: and if you sign up with the referral code, I
Speaker 1: heart Wren will plant ten extra trees in your name.
Speaker 1: Fred Rogers was a master of loving the clay of
Speaker 1: demonstrating and modeling the graciousness and neighborliness that he wished
Speaker 1: to see in the world. And he did it on TV,
Speaker 1: where million of children could mimic what Fred was modeling,
Speaker 1: but they could also learn how to love the clay
Speaker 1: in their own way. Even though Mr Rogers neighborhood belonged
Speaker 1: to Mr Rogers, Fred also had dozens and dozens of
Speaker 1: television neighbors, each of whom demonstrated their own gifts and
Speaker 1: talents for the toddler audience. I have never not sang.
Speaker 1: I've always been able to sing a song. It was
Speaker 1: all at first, you know. It's kind of like a trick.
Speaker 1: My aunts and uncles and cousins would ask me to sing,
Speaker 1: and Mr Rogers neighborhood Francois Clemens played the police officer,
Speaker 1: the singing police officer. My nickname was Buttercup, and the
Speaker 1: older I get, the more I love that name, a
Speaker 1: little Buttercup. And they used to say, Buttercup, come over here,
Speaker 1: child and sing this song for me, and I would
Speaker 1: come over. I sing for my aunt Clara, my and Hattie,
Speaker 1: my aunt Emma Clemens is something of a phenomen a.
Speaker 1: Grammy winning singer of opera and jazz. He founded the
Speaker 1: Harlem Spiritual Ensemble, which preserves and performs traditional American Negro spirituals.
Speaker 1: Francois was part of Mr. Rogers neighborhood for more than
Speaker 1: twenty years, but that footbath episode in nine made him
Speaker 1: an icon. I had no idea that scene would have
Speaker 1: that kind of an effect. Everywhere I went, people wanted
Speaker 1: to tell me their private story about that scene, somewhere
Speaker 1: having discussions in their homes and that scene came on,
Speaker 1: they said, Mom, look, mom, Dad, look dad, there's Francois
Speaker 1: and Mr. Rogers with their feet in the same pool.
Speaker 1: One's black and one's white. Yes they are, aren't They
Speaker 1: and their friends. But long before he met fred Francois
Speaker 1: was like a lot of the kids who would eventually
Speaker 1: grow up watching Mr. Rogers, He was lonely. Francois told
Speaker 1: me that his parents were clinically depressed. So we learned
Speaker 1: to look to other people for affection and care. Some
Speaker 1: of the things people say, Oh, there's nothing like a
Speaker 1: mother's love, Oh there's nothing like family. I questioned that
Speaker 1: from a very very young age, when my parents did
Speaker 1: not act right in the sense of trust and love
Speaker 1: and nurturing. I turned to a teacher, or to a
Speaker 1: social worker, or to a parent of one of my peers.
Speaker 1: They responded to me in a way that I thought
Speaker 1: my parents should have. But some of that care was
Speaker 1: a little bit more like charity than love, and growing
Speaker 1: up in America in the eighteen fifties meant that help
Speaker 1: was sometimes suffused with racism. The truth is the simple
Speaker 1: answer is I was two people in one and that
Speaker 1: was the one that was very sad. And to know
Speaker 1: that there are people who disliked me, who pushed me
Speaker 1: away simply because of my color, I could not deny it.
Speaker 1: I didn't try to deny it. But then there were
Speaker 1: those who said, oh, you need a new suit. Come
Speaker 1: come with us. We're gonna go buy you a new suit.
Speaker 1: Or they said, look at that boy's shoes. Come on,
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna take you downtown and buy you
Speaker 1: a pair of shoes. It would have confused the average kid,
Speaker 1: but since my parents weren't doing it, and I knew
Speaker 1: that I needed a new suit, I had a sense
Speaker 1: of wanting to dress decently and be clean. So in
Speaker 1: my mind I said, I have to wait and see
Speaker 1: what they're gonna do. Who these people? Are they gonna
Speaker 1: push me away? Are they gonna see to it that
Speaker 1: I have a winter coat. Francois was singing at a
Speaker 1: church the first time he encountered Fred. When he invited
Speaker 1: me to come onto the program and to have a
Speaker 1: regular singing part. I said, Fred, I will be very
Speaker 1: happy to be on your program as long as it
Speaker 1: doesn't interfere with my singing. And he looked at me
Speaker 1: and he told me, lady, He said, Francois, that is
Speaker 1: the moment that I loved you, because you were not
Speaker 1: gonna kiss my ass, and that's what everybody else was doing.
Speaker 1: Those are his words. Officer Clemens first appeared in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood in August of nine. He says it took a
Speaker 1: while for him to get used to working with Fred Rogers.
Speaker 1: He was a very unusual positive energy. It was not negative,
Speaker 1: but it was just so damn unusual. And by that
Speaker 1: I mean those puppets caused me a lot of hours
Speaker 1: of thinking, what on earth was a grown man doing
Speaker 1: plan with those puppets. I'm a ghetto boy, that was
Speaker 1: I knew some black men who well halfway trying to
Speaker 1: act right, but I never knew none who could play
Speaker 1: with no puppets, you know, so I could. I just
Speaker 1: couldn't wrap my head around it. And so I was
Speaker 1: looking at him. I was looking at him carefully. But
Speaker 1: ultimately Francois found in Fred a kindred spirit, a willing,
Speaker 1: creative collaborator, and a true friend who loved him in
Speaker 1: a way that Francois hadn't quite experienced before. Fred raw
Speaker 1: just recognized something in me before I did. When I
Speaker 1: got with Fred and he began to do these little
Speaker 1: extra things, that was over and beyond the call of Judy.
Speaker 1: I I was confused by that. Why is this white
Speaker 1: guy sticking with me? Why is he so persistently wonderful?
Speaker 1: So when he said, you're special, and you know how
Speaker 1: just by being you and I like you, whow just
Speaker 1: the way you are, and you make every day a
Speaker 1: special day. One instance in particular stands out to Francois.
Speaker 1: Many years later. Mr Rogers was rapping the show the
Speaker 1: way he always rapped the show, changing his shoes, removing
Speaker 1: a sweater. You've made it a special day for me,
Speaker 1: you know how, by just your being yourself. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: only one person in the whole world like you, and
Speaker 1: I like you just the way you are. See you,
Speaker 1: Tom I. I don't even know how to explain it,
Speaker 1: except we had locked eyes all the way across this
Speaker 1: big studio, and I dared to say to myself, he's
Speaker 1: talking to me, But he talks. He says that every day,
Speaker 1: every time I come to a show that he's filming,
Speaker 1: he's saying that. Why was he saying that to me today?
Speaker 1: There was something in his voice, something in his eyes.
Speaker 1: It was important to me to ask him, Fred, h
Speaker 1: were you talking to me? I had never had somebody
Speaker 1: say that to me in my whole life. Oh Lord,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you. When he said, yes, yes, I've
Speaker 1: been talking to you for two years and you heard
Speaker 1: me today. That was such a divine explosion. I can't
Speaker 1: explain it any other way. It was inside of me,
Speaker 1: it was outside of me, it was in him, it
Speaker 1: was in our eyes. I saw divinity. That's the only
Speaker 1: thing I can tell people. I have never experienced anything
Speaker 1: like it since. And I just collapsed in his in
Speaker 1: his arms. For Francois, the prospect of being accepted fully
Speaker 1: and completely was a near religious experience, but it was
Speaker 1: also a complicated one because Francois had a secret, a
Speaker 1: big secret that he had been keeping from almost everyone.
Speaker 1: Would Fred accept him even if he knew that secret too?
Speaker 1: Would Fred truly like him just the way that he was.
Speaker 1: I remember calling Fred on the telephone. I said I've
Speaker 1: got to tell you something and he said yes, And
Speaker 1: that's when I really said to him, I'm gay. Fred.
Speaker 1: He said to me, I will always love you, Francois.
Speaker 1: So that's not what we're discussing. What we are discussing
Speaker 1: is the role that you will be able to play
Speaker 1: on Mr rogers neighborhood and what does it mean if
Speaker 1: you choose to come out. Fred Rogers loved and accepted
Speaker 1: Francois Clements and in ninety nine it was a radical
Speaker 1: act to show a black man and a white man
Speaker 1: sharing a footpath, but having an openly gay man performing
Speaker 1: on a children's show that felt to Fred even riskier.
Speaker 1: And the thing that he impressed upon me was the advertisers.
Speaker 1: There would be enormous pressure on them from certain corners
Speaker 1: in our society that condemn homosexuality. And the thing he
Speaker 1: said to me, Fransoile, They're going to say terrible things
Speaker 1: about you and about me and about our program, and
Speaker 1: he said, all of our work, all of our valuable
Speaker 1: work and research will be lost. Is that what you want?
Speaker 1: And I, of course no, of course not. Then he said,
Speaker 1: you you cannot come out. You come out, They will
Speaker 1: not tolerate, they will not tolerate a gay person. And
Speaker 1: especially on a children's television program. It sevenly could not
Speaker 1: be done. How did that make you feel? It was
Speaker 1: one of the lowest, one of the lowest moments of
Speaker 1: my life. Realizing that, I think that was the moment
Speaker 1: I decided to go back into the closet and stay.
Speaker 1: Francois had spent years learning to love and accept himself,
Speaker 1: and here he was presenting a crucial part of that
Speaker 1: self to Fred. And though Fred reiterated his unconditional love
Speaker 1: for Francois, he still didn't be leieve that the wider
Speaker 1: world was ready to accept Francois just the way he was.
Speaker 1: Fred was faced with the question of weighing the needs
Speaker 1: of his friend with the preservation of his own larger mission,
Speaker 1: reaching as many children as possible. There were those in
Speaker 1: the black community, Oh, my goodness, who said to me,
Speaker 1: how important it is that there's a black face on
Speaker 1: that children's show appearing fairly regularly. Francois, the Ghetto kid
Speaker 1: needs to know that they two can go from the
Speaker 1: ghetto to Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. They they really impressed upon
Speaker 1: me how important it was that there would be no scandal,
Speaker 1: no disgrace to the race. Boy did I I zipped
Speaker 1: it up then, So even though there were things going
Speaker 1: on a stone wall, I absolutely did not have the
Speaker 1: luxury of coming out if I were going to be
Speaker 1: continue on Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. And I've said this too
Speaker 1: many people who tried to say, well, he rejected you,
Speaker 1: and he would didn't want you on the program, and
Speaker 1: this is that blah blah. I can't tell you how
Speaker 1: much I thought about that. I say that was that
Speaker 1: was a period of time with me when it was obsessive.
Speaker 1: I can't be myself, I can't have a normal life.
Speaker 1: What a sacrifice. Francois Clemens made an enormous sacrifice. In
Speaker 1: a very real sense. That sacrifice may have been responsible
Speaker 1: for thirty years worth of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, because who's
Speaker 1: to say how long a show with a gay black
Speaker 1: man would have even stayed on the air In the
Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties. And there's another irony that, for all
Speaker 1: of Fred's stated commitment to commercial free television for kids,
Speaker 1: he still felt worried about protecting adver tizers from the
Speaker 1: pressure of Francois coming out. So where did that leave Francois.
Speaker 1: He had to swallow his pain, and he had to
Speaker 1: carry it. He had to accept this denial of honesty
Speaker 1: as the price of being a part of a work
Speaker 1: like Mr. Rogers Neighborhood that did do so much good
Speaker 1: for so many people. Fred Rogers Love meant liberation for
Speaker 1: Francois Clemens, but not complete liberation. That would be for
Speaker 1: Francois to find on his own. But he did learn
Speaker 1: from Fred. For nearly three decades, he watched Fred Love
Speaker 1: the Clay demonstrate practical care and real goodness, and he
Speaker 1: saw how the transmission of that care through millions of
Speaker 1: TV screens could have a domino effect, and he decided
Speaker 1: that that result was too good to endanger. Would I
Speaker 1: have made the same kind of personal sacrifice? Would you?
Speaker 1: Ka Frenchoise professional singing career took more and more of
Speaker 1: his time. His final scene on the show was in
Speaker 1: and he hadn't appeared dressed as a police officer in
Speaker 1: almost a decade. But in that last episode, he showed
Speaker 1: up at Mr Rogers Porch just as Fred was starting
Speaker 1: to soak his feet. You know, I've been sitting here
Speaker 1: thinking about different ways people have of showing love to
Speaker 1: each other and to themselves. I like to think of
Speaker 1: things like that, Hey, Fred French, well clemens, Hi, welcome,
Speaker 1: thank you, How you doing fine? How are you today?
Speaker 1: My feet were tired, so I thought I'd just soaked
Speaker 1: them for a while in this water. Does it make
Speaker 1: him feel better? It does? Would you like to try? Sure?
Speaker 1: Does feel good? I was thinking about many different ways
Speaker 1: of saying I love you. Singing is one of my
Speaker 1: ways of saying I love you. Oh I know that.
Speaker 1: Do you have time to to give a song to
Speaker 1: my friend and me? I sure do. There are many
Speaker 1: ways to say I love you. There are many ways
Speaker 1: to say I care about any ways, So any ways
Speaker 1: anyways too, sad. I've sung it a million times and
Speaker 1: I still love it. There's the singing way, too, Sad,
Speaker 1: I love you. I get such a dose a Fred love,
Speaker 1: That's what I call it. I'm so blessed. I'm very grateful.
Speaker 1: Many worse to sa I love you. I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of you. Friends. Oh thank your Fred. Next time they
Speaker 1: called it Fred time. He slowed the pace down and
Speaker 1: that gave him the opportunity to express his love and
Speaker 1: care for other people and reach out and touch our
Speaker 1: hearts as well. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media.
Speaker 1: The team is Dan O'Donnell, Jordan Bailey, and Mattie Foley.
Speaker 1: Our editor is Sarah Nick's editorial help from Michael Garoffalo.
Speaker 1: The executive producer for Transmitter Media is Gretta Cone. Executive
Speaker 1: producers at Fatherly are Simon Isaac's and Andrew Berman. Music
Speaker 1: by Blue Dot Sessions and Alison Layton Brown. And thanks
Speaker 1: to the team at I Heart I'm Carvelo wall Us,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening. Teething can be a real nightmare for
Speaker 1: your little ones. Highlands Naturals Baby oral pain relief tablets
Speaker 1: can help ease the pain. It's gentle, natural active ingredients
Speaker 1: like camemeo and arnica soothe your baby's mouth, and gums
Speaker 1: made with ingredients derived from plant minerals and other sources
Speaker 1: free of harsh chemicals. You can count on Highlands for
Speaker 1: serious pain relief for your teething baby. Highlands is a
Speaker 1: kinder way to care for teething. Visit Highlands dot com
Speaker 1: slash kind. That's h y l a n DS dot
Speaker 1: com slash kind claims based on traditional homeopath a practice.
Speaker 1: Not accept the medical evidence not ft evaluated here at
Speaker 1: Freddy's Sweet could tell you how our original double is
Speaker 1: this steak burger made with lean ground beef, cooked to
Speaker 1: order with deliciously crispy edges, and finished off with our
Speaker 1: Freddie's famous seasoning. But we'd rather let her original double
Speaker 1: speak for itself. Couldn't have said it better ourselves. Enjoy
Speaker 1: food made fresh the freddie Sway. Tap now or learn
Speaker 1: more at Freddie's USA dot com. Do you suffer from
Speaker 1: zoom fatigue? Auto dot ai is here to help. Use
Speaker 1: auto dot ai to get automatic meeting notes. You can
Speaker 1: even step away from the meeting and catch up any time.
Speaker 1: Get started for free at atter dot ai or download
Speaker 1: in the app stores. That's otter dot ai