1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: We don't yet know exactly what these three objects were. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Nothing right now suggests they were related to China's spy 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: ballooon program. Child is a problem in this administration thus 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: far hasn't set a very good example of standing up 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: to Child. This administration is strong and tough on Chin. 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: China today is the single most formidable adversary of the 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: United States has ever fa Bloomberg sound on Politics, Policy 9 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: and Perspective from DC's top name a local left wing 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: d A and Atlantis after me for an absolutely perfect 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: phone called. The Grand Jury concluded that no fraud existed 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: in Georgia. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: The US still does not know where the three unidentified 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: objects came from. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics. 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: As President Biden addresses the nation on the series of 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: recent shootdowns in America's relationship with China. Will discuss the 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: political and security implications with former Congressman Mike Rodgers, who 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: chaired the House Intelligence Committee. The Grand Jury in Georgia 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: investigating election interference by Donald Trump. Does they believe one 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: or more witnesses committed perjury. Will discuss what we learned 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: today with former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rogers and John Federman 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: hospitalized for clinical depression. We're gonna talk about that in 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: all of our stories with our panel Bloomberg Politics contributors 24 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis. You've been hearing the calls 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: on this very program for President by a new address 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: the nation on the Chinese by balloon and the three 27 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: other objects that the U S shot down over the 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 1: last week or so. Today, that is exactly what he did. 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: We know yet know exactly what these three objects were, 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: but nothing, nothing right now suggests they were related to 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Chinese spy balloon program, or that there were surveillance vehicles 32 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: from other any other country. The intelligence community's current assessment 33 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: is that these three objects were most likely balloons tied 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: to private companies, recreation or re arch institutions studying whether 35 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: or conducting other scientific research. Okay, so they still don't 36 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: know what they shot down. But the President did confirm 37 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: reports today that he's ordering National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan 38 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: to lead an inter agency effort to create new protocols 39 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: or any for handling unidentified aerial objects, and he made 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: clear he still wants to talk to China. Look, the 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: other thing I want to point out is that we 42 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: are going to keep our allies and the Congress contemporaries 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: informed all we know and all we learn. And uh, 44 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: I expect to be speaking with President She and I 45 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: hope we have we're going to get to the bottomist. 46 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: But I make no apologies for taking down that bollong. 47 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: He did not say when he plans to speak with 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: President She and want us to talk about what we 49 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: learned today. Former Congressman Mike Rogers, who chaired the House 50 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee also the founder of Lead Leadership to Ensure 51 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: the American Dream. It's great to have you back with us. 52 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: Congressman to the President, put your mind at ease today, 53 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: Well did not exactly exude confidence in my mind. Uh. 54 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you recall, the reason they were saying, hey, 55 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: we're going to show them down, shoot these things down, 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: is because they posted in the United States in some way, 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: either a collection of data or something that they didn't 58 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: understand on that on the craft, I didn't even know 59 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: what three or the more that doesn't you know, just 60 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy. I mean, it 61 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: sounds like there's going to be a lot more that 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: we just don't know, uh than we do. And I 63 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: don't I the president of Candiday, I wouldn't have gone 64 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: out there and said, well, we really don't know much 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: about the three things we just shot down. I guess 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: that's really the question here and and whether or not 67 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: or we're ever going to know what I'm asking you 68 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: that because of what we heard from General Mark merely 69 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: earlier this week. He talked about, look, we we haven't 70 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: found numbers two, three, and four there in very difficult 71 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: terrain or under hundreds of feet of water. And Senator 72 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: John Kennedy of Louisiana, Republican for Louisiana took it a 73 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: step further. He was just coming out of a classified 74 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: briefing when he said this to reporters this week, that 75 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: they're actually lost. We can't find the remnants except for 76 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: the spot. And that's what I took away from the 77 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: hearing today. I can't find they're lost, is what he said. Congressman, 78 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: do we suspect that he was told that by the 79 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: Pentagon officials who briefed him. Yeah, I'm going to guess 80 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: that probably was mentioned in the in the briefing. Here's 81 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: the thing. I mean, listen, we all have our wishes 82 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: and wants that we will want to bind an administration 83 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: to stand up to China this way or that way. 84 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: And you know my argument is they could do more. 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: But it's something like this. This is really important to 86 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: kind of rally around the wagon here because when we 87 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: talk in in terms that looks like we're all of 88 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: them in Washington, d C. Are dysfunctional, you actually help 89 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: our adversaries. And so let's just say those devices were 90 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: sent in, they didn't get any ra our signatures or 91 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: any signatures coming off of them that would indicate that 92 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: they were collecting anything. Well, guess what our adversaries are 93 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: still watching how we react to this, uh, and looking 94 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: like we all don't know what we're doing and we 95 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: can't wait till the other team exactly how much we 96 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: don't know what we're doing. I just don't think it's 97 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: very helpful right now. You know, maybe again, if the 98 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: president came out and said, listen, we're working on it, 99 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: don't worry about it, We've got it covered, that probably 100 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: would have been a better speech than hey, we really 101 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: didn't know what the heck is going on. We don't 102 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: know where they're at. They came out, we can't even 103 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: find them. Well, I just does that help us? I mean, 104 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: at the same time, listen, yes, we have some obligations 105 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: to tell people, for sure, but you don't have to 106 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: tell our adversaries things that they probably ought not to know. 107 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: And that's my only started going forward, maybe a little 108 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: more time, figure out what they were, figure out where 109 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: they're at. Uh, you know, I don't like to tell 110 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: our adversaries that we can't find the things we've shot 111 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: down over our own country. Um, that just doesn't make 112 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: me feel warm and fuzzy either. But you've also give 113 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: them a little piece of intelligence that they're going to 114 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: factor in forever any future operation. And again we don't 115 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: know what was on those devices. So was was it 116 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: espionage gear? I don't know? Were they just we react 117 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: and what kind of communications signals we throw up when 118 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: something like this happens, we don't know. And so there's 119 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: just a lot more we didn't know. And to come 120 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: out and kind of say that in the way that 121 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: they said it, and then of course Congress pounces on it. 122 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm just not sure that's helping the Team USA right now. 123 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: Like Rogers, you chaired the House Permanent Selectivitee on Intelligence 124 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: from that's before we were aware of this much more 125 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: broad balloon spying program that China is engaged in, not 126 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: just with the US but dozens of other countries. As 127 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: it turns out, Should we be speaking openly about that? Well, 128 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly that cat is out of the bag. 129 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: But you know what's really interesting to me on this 130 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: particular case is that they watched it go over Guam. 131 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: Guess what. Lots of US presence they are focused on. Asia, 132 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: watched to go over Hawaii, lots of US military presence 133 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: they're focused on Asia. We've watched to go for Alaska, 134 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: by the way, lots of US military presence there. And yeah, 135 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: I mean if you look at the route and you're thinking, wow, 136 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: you know why didn't well, you know, we could get 137 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: into the what ifs, but that thing was collecting for 138 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: a very long time on very sensitive areas of the 139 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: U S gears. So they tell us they were jamming 140 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: communications to some extent. Do you do you believe that 141 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: I believe that they were trying to jam communications. What 142 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: we don't know and will not know until they do 143 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: a full recovery. Is was that the only way that 144 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: that UH suite of electronic community surveillance equipment could communicate. Remember, 145 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: when you're at sixty thou feet, it is a really 146 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: short burst to get a whole bunch of information up 147 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: to a satellite, Chinese satellite flying by, really really easy 148 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: to do. And so I'm skeptical that we can say 149 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: that we got it all nothing to worry about. I'm skeptical. 150 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: I just don't believe that until all of the forensics 151 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: are done. But remember, there are lots of creative ways 152 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: to get information off that balloon, even if it's being 153 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: jammed from the ground or in by in the error 154 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: by US military and intelligence services. So there's just a 155 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: lot we don't know. And telling us a little bit 156 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: and pulling back, I'm not sure what was helpful. The 157 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: President did address our more broader relationship with China today, 158 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: using very familiar language. We do not want conflict, but 159 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: we are going to pursue competition. We don't want a 160 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: new Cold war, he said. Are we not already in one? 161 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: Mike Rogers, I don't think we're in a cold war, 162 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: but we do need to understand that China is out 163 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: to knock us off our pig, meaning you know where 164 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: the most influential leader when it comes to the economy 165 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: X and finance. China has openly said they think that 166 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: that day should come to an end. Uh, the way 167 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: that they have stolen intellectual property and cost us a 168 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: little bit of prosperity for American people. Yet that's they're 169 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: going to continue to do that. So yeah, I do 170 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: believe that those are all big challenges, including our own 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: challenges domestically by the way, I mean, we can't China's 172 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: teaching quantum mechanics state graders, and in half half last 173 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: year our high school seniors couldn't read pass the sixth 174 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: grade level. We have fundamental challenges if we are going 175 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: to compete with a strategic competitor like China. Uh, And 176 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: we better kind of rally around the poll here to 177 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: say we can do it, we will do it, and 178 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: let's get busy doing it. Mike, I'm glad you came in, 179 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: former Congressman Mike Rodgers, who shared the House Permanent Select 180 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: Committee on Intelligence from the great state of Michigan. Great 181 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: to hear your insights here as we assemble our panel. 182 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: Now I want to hear from Rick Davis and Genie Schanzano, 183 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: of course, just as much as you do. Bloomberg politics 184 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: can tributors. Uh. Interesting day here, Rick, just wait for 185 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy's trip to Taiwan. What's that going to do 186 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: to the conversation. Look, I mean, arguably, we have an 187 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: incredibly challenging environment to deal with with China, and this 188 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: is just a a small fraction of it. But I 189 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: thought that Mike Rodgers made a really good point is 190 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: that we have to think of all these incidents, including 191 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: this balloon incident, is to what are we telling China 192 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: and and and how are they actually receiving this information? 193 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: Because you know, everything that the President does on the podium, 194 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: every trip that that Kevin McCarthy makes to Taipei, all 195 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: of those things are obvious to our media and what 196 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: we're trying to accomplish. But we've got to also be 197 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: thinking through how is that being perceived and regurgitated in China? 198 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: Because this is how you get into a cold war 199 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: fast and and I think even the President saying that, 200 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, the same day we're talking about the Chinese balloon, 201 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, to put basically sanctions on companies that we're 202 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: doing business with. The p l A, you know, sends 203 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: another message, right, those two things may be completely disconnected, 204 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: but the Chinese won't think so. Jennie listened to Senator 205 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: Marco Rubio talking with reporters today on Capitol Hill. He says, 206 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: forget the Cold War, forget the Soviet Union. This is 207 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: a whole new level. China today is the single most 208 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: formidable adversary of the United States has ever faced. Soviet 209 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: Union was not an industrial power, technological power, or commercial power. 210 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: I just found that interesting and it resonated as we 211 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: conduct essentially a proxy war with Russia. For a little perspective, 212 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: You're Genie, it is. And you know, the this sad 213 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: thing is is that I don't think we are doing 214 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: ourselves any service. I have to tell you. I found 215 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: today as clear as mud what was coming out of 216 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: the White House on this. We have balloons coming in 217 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: they nobody seems to know they're going to Guam. I'm 218 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: no atmospheric person, but do they just drift off course 219 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: all the way into Montana? I mean it's you know, 220 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: it was really hard to follow this story. We eventually 221 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: shoot that one down. There's three more that we are 222 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: shooting down with missiles above the United States and Canada, 223 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: and yet there's nothing serious, nothing to worry about what 224 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: is going on. So, while I appreciate what Senator Rubio 225 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: is saying, could we get some information that makes any 226 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: modicum of sense? And if they can't tell us for 227 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: security reasons, can they at least say that Rick is 228 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: John Kennedy onto something? Did he say something he shouldn't have? 229 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: That the wreckage is actually lost that we cannot find it. 230 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: I know we shot it down. We have a sense 231 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: of where this stuff is. But are we to believe 232 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: the Pentagon doesn't actually have eyes on this stuff? Yeah? Sure, 233 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, these things are getting shot down 234 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: at twenty feet Uh, you can't actually pinpoint where they land, 235 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: and when they land they move right. And these are 236 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: really hostile conditions in the Arctic. Like here, On's a 237 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: big place. You know, I try to catch a fish 238 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: on the lake, and you know, I know they're down there. 239 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: I just can't seem to find any of them. And 240 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, I I look, I accept that, and and 241 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: but I think what what Roger said was right, which is, 242 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: why do we want to admit that I mean, like, 243 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: what is the message we're giving or not spoken at 244 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: all today? I guess is my question. Well, if that's 245 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: something that they learned in a in a confidential briefing 246 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: and it's not publicly known information, he shouldn't have been 247 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: talking about. Well for John Kennedy understood. How about for 248 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: Joe Biden not to say, you know what, we we 249 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: just don't know still where they're from. Yeah, look, I 250 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: mean I don't understand why the President United States has 251 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: to go out and actually talk to American public about 252 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of balloons that nobody knows the origin and 253 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: we don't have a complete story on. I mean, I 254 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: am I am anti balloon mania. I think the one 255 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: that mattered is the one we know about, which is 256 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: the Chinese balloon. Other things we'll figure them out when 257 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: we come and the American public needs to be patient. 258 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: As long as they don't think they're UFOs and that 259 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: your you know house is gonna get you know, nuked 260 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 1: by a UFO, then then I think he was reassuring 261 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: to the American public earlier in the week that's all 262 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: he needed to do. Senator Lindsey Graham was speaking as 263 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: well today, uh on the Hill talking about China specifically, 264 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: UH and some some sort of chilling comments as he 265 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: considers the threat from the other side of the world. 266 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: We have certain capabilities we need to increase. The Chinese 267 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: Communist Party is getting more aggressive. We need to have 268 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: such a military capability to deter war. And when you 269 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: get in a war, you want to make sure you 270 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: win it. Gennie, this is getting to be a frenzy 271 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: for sure. We don't even know where these other three 272 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: are from. Of course, the spy balloon might have on 273 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: its own. UH prompted this conversation. But what should we 274 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: be what's he talking about? What do we need that 275 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: we don't have? Apparently we have to invest more in 276 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: the budget for the military and defense, you know, you know, 277 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: But listen, I have to disagree with Rick on this. 278 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: We are in a diplomatic crisis that's like ten to 279 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: twelve days long with mass confusion. And why do people 280 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: worry about aliens because the government said they couldn't tell 281 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: us it wasn't aliens. I mean, so, you know, I 282 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: appreciate what he's saying that if they hadn't gotten themselves 283 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: into this mess, he wouldn't have had to come out 284 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: but he does need to come out, But when he 285 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: comes out, he needs to give some information or at 286 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: least tell us that this is not a national security crisis. 287 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: When is the last time we've had jets flying over 288 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: the United States shooting things out of the sky and 289 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: then we're told that they can't tell us where they 290 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: are or what they were. Again, the web telescope can 291 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: tell us what happened fifty billion years ago or something, 292 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: but they can't tell us what they're shooting out of 293 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: the sky over our own territory. This is not the 294 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: way to conduct business. The communications here is pitiful, and 295 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: they've got to get on top of it. And today 296 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: I don't think they did themselves any service in this regard. 297 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: Maybe he could have used a surrogate to deliver this 298 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,239 Speaker 1: message Rick, although I guess Karigian Pierre, the Press Secretary, 299 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: hasn't been cutting it here or he wouldn't have had 300 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: to come out today. It is just an interesting conversation 301 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: to to say, Okay, we're going to address the American 302 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: people here, but we're really not sure what it is 303 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about. Yeah, look, I mean Genie wants transparency, 304 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: but you know, then she's upset when you go out 305 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: and be transparent, you have nothing to say. So the government, look, 306 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: it is wrestling with something that's new, right, And there 307 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: are obviously, you know, you know, geopolitical uh issues related 308 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: to these balloons and certainly the Chinese bloon that we 309 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: know of and and that cannot be diminished, and and 310 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: and there is Lindsay Graham says, We've got to start 311 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: looking inward is to like, where are we really prepared? 312 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: I do think, just to change a minute, we have 313 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: all these very important people talking about war with China. 314 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: What did that all occur? It's in it just in 315 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks. It feels like Genie do 316 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: you think he was holding back Jennie today? Yeah, I 317 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: think he was. And if it's a national security reason, 318 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: you can't tell us. Tell us that you're listening to 319 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 320 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: five Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the r Herd Radio app, 321 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business Happen. We're listening on demand wherever 322 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: you get your pod. A peek inside the special Grand 323 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: Jury in Georgia, Fulton County. We've talked about this, investigating 324 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the twenty election, recalling Donald 325 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: Trump's phone called the perfect call, as he described it, 326 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: to Secretary of State Brad Rathensburger, remember to find enough 327 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: votes to overturn his loss. The partial report released earlier 328 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: today shows a majority of the grand jury believes perjury 329 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: was committed by one or more witnesses. There were seventy 330 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: five witnesses and they concluded unanimously there was no widespread 331 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: fraud in the twenty election. In Georgia, joining us to 332 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: talk about a Jennifer Rogers, former federal prosecutor, lecturer in 333 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: law a Columbia Law School, adjunct professor at n y 334 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: U s School of Law. Jennifer, Welcome back to Bloomberg. 335 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: Thanks good to be here. So just so we understand, 336 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: because I know this is pretty unusual to be revealing 337 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: information from a grand jury. Why was the judge compelled 338 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: to tell us anything about what they learned? Well, the 339 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: judge had a most in front of him. Uh, that 340 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: was by a whole bunch of media entity saying it's 341 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: in the public interest to reveal the work of the 342 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: special grand By the way, we were one of them, 343 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: and that's our job to ask for you know, whatever 344 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: we can get whatever we can understand here, But what 345 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: compelled him to do it? Well, you know, the special 346 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: grand jury works differently than a regular criminal grand jury, 347 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: and it's he's required to if the public interests dictate 348 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: that he revealed as much as he can without jeopardizing 349 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: any other interests. So that's why he had to balance 350 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: these interests of the press against the criminal interest in 351 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: the VA's office, and also, of course the privacy interests 352 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: of people whose names might be revealed in the report 353 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: of the grand jury. The majority of the grand jury 354 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: beliefs perjury may have been committed by one or more witnesses, 355 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: and we know there are some big names potentially on 356 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: that list. Jennifer, how important is that to you? Well, 357 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: I think that's very very interesting. I mean, there were 358 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: seventy five witnesses. We of course don't know which ones 359 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: they're talking about, but you kind of can discuss the 360 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: ones who don't have any incentives to lie right there, 361 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: not in criminal jeopardy themselves, and they don't have anyone 362 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: to protect. So some of the ones that might come 363 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: to mind who do have someone to protect, maybe themselves 364 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: or someone else, or some of the big names here, right, 365 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani, Michael Flynn, John Eastman, Mark Meadows, Lyndsay Graham. 366 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: Those are the names that kind of jumped to the floor. 367 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: We don't know if those are the people implicated, but 368 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: personally I can't wait to see. So obviously there's there 369 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: are no charges involved here. Prosecutors would then need to 370 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: make the case before a regular grand jury, right, So 371 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: this could be some time before we get the next 372 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: leg in this case. It could, although Fanny Willis did 373 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: tell the judge a few weeks ago that charges charging 374 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: decisions were imminent. Now her imminent is maybe not someone 375 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: else's imminence because nothing has happened yet, but it at 376 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: least suggests that she's close to making decisions and bringing charges. 377 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think we are months and months away, 378 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: or she probably wouldn't have said that to the judge. Interesting. 379 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: That also would suggest that she's probably already making that 380 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: case to a grand jury, right. She could be. She 381 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: could be. I mean, there's they're kind of two things 382 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: going on. One is, of course, is she's going to 383 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: bring charges, and then you actually have to go and 384 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 1: seek the charges in front of the grand jury. But 385 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 1: if you're going to charge some of these people, the 386 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: former president for sure, you know, a senator like Lindsay Graham, 387 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: even just big bull face names who don't have current offices, 388 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: like a Rudy Giuliani. You really need to think through 389 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: the next steps. Who do you arrest these people, how 390 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: do you bring them to the courthouse for processing? You know, 391 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things to think about, even beyond 392 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: the actual getting the indictment in hand. So I think 393 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: probably in addition to these charging decisions, she's kind of 394 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: trying to think through some of those next steps to 395 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: figure out how they're going to make that happen. Those 396 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: are some pretty major considerations. We've heard that a RICO 397 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: charge could be involved here, Jennifer. Wouldn't that suggest that 398 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: potentially dozens of people could be charged? Maybe? I mean, 399 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: RICO doesn't always have to involve a huge number of people. 400 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: You do have to prove the existence of some sort 401 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: of entity or organization, but it doesn't have to be enormous. 402 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: It has to have some sort of characteristics of an organization, 403 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: some structure, some common goals and so on. But you 404 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: don't necessarily look to dozens of people when you're doing 405 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: a Rico. It does suggest to me we're talking, you know, 406 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: more about just like one or two people probably are unlikely, 407 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: but you know, somewhere between a couple and dozens might 408 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: be the right number for a reco charge. If she 409 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: brings it, I'd be surprised, though it's a fairly complicated charge. Um, 410 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd be surprised if we see a 411 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: reco here. How many people do you need to call 412 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: it a conspiracy? Okay, then so it's to two or more. 413 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: We'll go with that, Jennifer. Of course, this is happening 414 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: at the same time as the investigation here in Washington 415 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: with a special counsel. They're looking at many of the 416 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: very same things here. Of course, Georgia's specific to Georgia, 417 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,160 Speaker 1: and I just wonder how the outcome of this case 418 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: might inform, at least in your opinion, what's happening here 419 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: on the federal level in Washington. Well, it's really interesting 420 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: because usually when federal authorities are investigating, it means that 421 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: other folks are not or has been willing to take 422 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: a back speed. You know, there's usually some coordination there. 423 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: Federal officials have obviously coordinated with Fanny Willis's office, but 424 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: they've been willing to let her go ahead. I think 425 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: they are working together. It's it's just very interesting. For 426 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a long time, it seems like maybe they weren't really 427 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: investigating vigorously themselves and they were going to let her 428 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: kind of take the lead. Now it seems that they're 429 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 1: also investigating. So you have to think about how that 430 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: overlap might affect the case on the federal side. If 431 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: Georgia brings charges first, so I don't know how they're 432 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: going to navigate all of that. They could maybe kind 433 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: of carve out the Georgia peace for Georgia and charge 434 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: the rest of it. That's one possibility. Another possibility is 435 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: to go ahead and charge duplicatively, but then let Georgia 436 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 1: go first in terms of trying that piece of it 437 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: before the Feds try their Georgia related piece. So there 438 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: are a few things that can be done, but what 439 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: it really requires is communication and coordination, and so it 440 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: seems like that is happening here. I hope that's happening here. 441 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: That's really the only way to even hope for a 442 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,239 Speaker 1: smooth outcome if you have cases going on like this 443 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: with them overlap. That's fascinating, Jennifer. So you think they're 444 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: they're already talking. They're in touch at least on some level. 445 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: Right now, any time you learn that another entity is 446 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: investigating the same thing and the same people that you are, 447 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 1: you immediately open those channels of communication, if for nothing 448 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: else other than safety reasons. Right, if you have the 449 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: FBI and then Georgia's law enforcement talking to the same 450 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: people doing the same things, thinking about maybe even search warrants, 451 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: wire taps, investigative tools like that on the same subject, 452 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: you have to deconflict and coordinate. So that really would 453 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: have been one of the first things to happen with 454 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: regard to the Special Council investigation. We learned recently that 455 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: Mike Pence is pledging to take his challenge to this 456 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: subpoena from the Special Counsel to the Supreme Court if needed. 457 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,360 Speaker 1: Can he continue to resist testimony, Well, he can as 458 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: as long as no one is telling him he can't write. 459 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: So you have to have a court tell him that 460 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: he must comply with the subpoena. And it looks like 461 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: his claim was only going to be an executive privileged claim. 462 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: It looked like that wouldn't last very long that law 463 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: is settled. He will lose that case. If he brings it. 464 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: That would have been fairly swift. Now he's talking about 465 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: this speech and debate clause claim because in his role 466 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: as President of the Senate, he's effectively claiming to be 467 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: a legislator for purposes of what he was doing on 468 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: January six. The problem with that is it's just untested. 469 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: That's just a claim that has never made its way 470 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: up through the courts to the Supreme Court, which means 471 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: that he probably will get a hearing on that, maybe 472 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: all the way to the Supreme Court. And even if 473 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: he loses that battle, we're talking about probably months before 474 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: that's decided. So he's really going to be able, I think, 475 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: to kick this can down the road before a court 476 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: tells him, without any appeals above it, you must go testify. 477 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: Jennifer fascinating. We learned a lot of Jennifer Rogers, former 478 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor now with Columbia Law School and n y 479 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: U School of Law. Many thanks for helping us out 480 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: here on Bloomberg Today. Thanks so much. So we could 481 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: be getting news from Georgia anytime now. It sounds like 482 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is certainly aware this. He talked about it 483 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: on the campaign trail. This is Donald Trump at a 484 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: rally on the fourth of November. A local left wing 485 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: d a in Atlanta is after me for an absolutely 486 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: perfect phone call. Even better, I would say, better than 487 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian call to the president. This one was even better. 488 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: Nobody complained about a year later, all of a sudden, 489 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: they said, oh, that call. Didn't he make a call? 490 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: A perfect phone call about election integrity? I call about 491 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: election integrity And they said, oh, well, did he possibly say? No? 492 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: It was a perfect call. So many perfect calls that 493 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: can't keep track of them. The panel is here for that. 494 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzano with a quick swing on 495 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: what we learned today. Rick, We're gonna get some news 496 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: pretty soon from Georgia. Uh, that's gonna set the stage 497 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: for potentially more news from the Department of Justice. All 498 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: as a presidential campaign, it's getting underway. What are we 499 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: in for here? Uh? Certainly a very interesting first quarter 500 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: of the election cycle for four with an announced presidential candidate. 501 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: So you imagine I don't Trump going anywhere and having 502 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: to deal with these topics. Uh, you know, if he's 503 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: out campaigning, and I suspect that's one of the reasons 504 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: why we don't see him doing very much campaigning, because 505 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: you know, it just brings up all these these topics. 506 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: I would say it is fascinating, um to see how 507 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: much of this is done without any public attention. I mean, 508 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about sort of what got you know, released today, 509 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: but like there's an enormous amount of work being done, 510 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: not just in you know, Fannie Willis's shop, but you know, 511 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: in in Jack Smith's shop. I mean, we were seeing 512 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: reporting about eight different sealed cases. Uh, you know that 513 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: may point to cover ups and things like that. And 514 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: certainly the extent that I've been around Washington's usually not 515 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: the crime. It's always a cover up that cats it 516 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: in trouble. Jennie, Joe Biden just sits back and watches 517 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 1: this happen. Uh. Yeah, this is exactly what the Biden 518 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: team wants to continue. And I think what's going to 519 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: be fascinating is to see how this you know, criminal 520 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: and constitutional clock works its way through the court. And 521 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: it has been a pretty fast investigation, especially the Smith one, 522 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: but also we are up against a political clock. We 523 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: have not just Donald Trump, but Mike Pence, who, as 524 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: you were just talking about, citing claims of privilege, he 525 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: is probably to be announced candidate. So this has spread 526 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: far and wide, not to mention sitting senators, political leaders. 527 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: Brian Kemp, the governor had testified. We don't know who 528 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: they think lied under oath, and I'm not suggesting it 529 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: was Brian Kemp, but witnesses. It's a long list to 530 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: go through. And that is just Georgia. You're listening to Bloomberg. 531 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: You sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. I 532 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: just got the letter from President Biden's doctor, from the 533 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: White House physician Kevin O'Connor. After the big physical this morning, 534 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, the president, he got on the helicopter, went 535 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: to Walter Read for the physical. We actually have the 536 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: results here that don't worry. The President asked him to 537 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: release them. Fit for duty is the headline doctor Wright's quote. 538 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: President Biden remains a healthy, vigorous, eighty year old male 539 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: who is fit to see successfully execute the duties of 540 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: the presidency, to include those as chief executive, head of State, 541 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: and commander in chief. They even have his vitals on here, 542 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: pulse sixty nine, blood pressure, seventy six. I am supposed 543 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: to know all this, right. These are nice numbers here. 544 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: I have to admit d seventy eight pounds seventy two inches. 545 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: This is part of the drill when you're president, But 546 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: for this one, at eighty years old, it takes on 547 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: a certain level of importance that it might not otherwise, 548 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: as many people question his age his fitness for a 549 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: potential next term. Let's assemble the panel. We're gonna go 550 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: through a couple of things here that involves the health 551 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: of our elected leaders, and in this case specifically President Biden. G. D. 552 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: Chantono when Rick Davis are here, not bad genie for 553 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: an eighty year old man. The numbers look pretty good. 554 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: Of course, we have to do this couple more times 555 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: before he would enter a second term. Does this help 556 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: to quell any concerns about his health? Yet? Not bad 557 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: at all? For so many of us, he sounds pretty healthy. 558 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: So you know, I am not sure it's going to 559 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: quell the political concern that is out there. I think 560 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: what's gonna quell that or things like what he did 561 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: on this at the State of the Union, in which 562 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: he showed he can engage. He is energetic and I 563 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: think part of that is going to be Joe Biden 564 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: back on the stump and able to, you know, if 565 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,239 Speaker 1: he does announce, we should say able to, you know, 566 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: campaign in the way Americans pre COVID and post COVID 567 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: expect their leaders to be campaigning. And it is a 568 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: lot to ask anybody, especially somebody at his age. So, 569 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think this is a step in the 570 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: right direction, but I think questions will still be raised, 571 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: and the President says he's prepared to address those. That's true. 572 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: He took him an hour to get out of the 573 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: room the night of the State of the Union. He 574 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: was still doing pretty well. I was ready to fall over. 575 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: But part of the reason why I bring this up, 576 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, is because of what we heard this week 577 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: from Nicki Haley of course announced her candidacy for the 578 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: Republican nomination, and she's running for president. She had two 579 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: proposals that she made clear in her speech. We'll have 580 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: term limits for Congress. Term limits here was one of them. 581 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: See about that. Here's the other. And mandatory mental competency 582 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: tests for politicians over seventy five years. Okay, well, that 583 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: would include both Joe Biden and Donald Trump. By the way, 584 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: he's seventies six years old. Karine John Pierre, the White 585 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: House Press Secretary, was asked about this idea today of 586 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: the cognitive test. We've heard these types of attacks or 587 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: remarks before. And you know, if you go back to 588 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: they said that the President couldn't do it in and 589 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: attacked him there and he beat them. Did the President 590 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: helped to fend off the idea of a cognitive test 591 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: with the results today? Rick Davis? And you know what 592 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: it's like to work with an aging politician who has 593 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: health challenges. This is a very delicate issue, sure, and 594 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: really the only way to do it is is really 595 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: what he's doing, which is just get up every morning 596 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 1: and look fit, and and and and and perform your 597 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: job right, just do your job. And and that is 598 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: there's no way you're going to convince somebody at that 599 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: age that they just ought to believe you that you're fine, right, 600 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: or believe the doctor. I mean, you know, I've got 601 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: great blood pressure. Uh, you just gotta you just gotta perform. 602 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: And if and if there are stumbles, if there are 603 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: moments that are embarrassing or whatnot, then you gotta get 604 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: back up on a horse and a ride. I mean, 605 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: you've got to get right back in and uh and 606 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: continue to perform. And and that's what the American people want. 607 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: They're less concerned about just what age you are, and 608 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: but they are ultimately concerned that they have somebody in 609 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: the Oval office who is fit and can handle the 610 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: riggers of the job. And they don't diminish what those 611 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: riggers are. They think it's a tough job, they don't 612 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: think it's a cake walk. So he's got to live 613 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: up to that level of voter expectation. Well, he likes 614 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: to say, watch me, Genie. That really maybe all he 615 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: can do with this idea of a cognitive tests. Nicki 616 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: Haley is just trying to get us to talk about this, right, 617 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: that's not real. Yeah she is, And she's trying to 618 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: get us to talk not just about Joe Biden, but 619 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, because if she didn't want to hit Trump, 620 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: she would hit eight D and above. But she hit 621 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 1: that seventy number. And I think she needs to watch 622 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: out because Trump has aced his cognitive test. Person, woman, 623 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: are much more difficult, like a memory question. It's coming 624 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: back like you'll go person woman, man camera TV. I 625 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: don't know if I could do that Rick myself. Oh, 626 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: I have eminent confidence in your cognitive abilities, Joe. Um. 627 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: But but yeah, look, I mean it is a way 628 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: to get us talking about it. It's exactly what we're doing. 629 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: Uh and uh and and it's kind of funny. I 630 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: mean in the sense that if you're gonna do it 631 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: the present, you're gonna do it to the entire United 632 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: States Senate. And how about those House members? There a 633 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: few over seventy two people five year old there too. 634 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: And uh and so I would say there's enough in 635 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: this category that you're unlikely to pass any law that 636 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: would require this. Um. And maybe it's just like taxes 637 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: and your physicals. Uh, you set a standard to do it. Uh. 638 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: You know, I get out the you know, the machines 639 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: that tell whether you're telling a liar telling the truth, right, 640 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: I mean, like let's just put those on during the debates. 641 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: And I mean there's all kinds of things like ever 642 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: more delicate than this situation is the one involving Senator 643 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: John Fetterman. If if you're at work all day, if 644 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: you're just catching up on things, he checked himself into 645 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: Walter read this was not because of the stroke. Well 646 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: at least not directly. Remember, he was hospitalized a week 647 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: ago feeling lightheaded. Today he checked himself in to be 648 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: treated for clinical depression. This is a big deal, and 649 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: you can look at this a couple of different ways here, Jeannie, 650 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: he could be seen as a hero for helping to 651 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: remove the stigma around this. But I'll tell you what, 652 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 1: this is not an easy job. As Rick Davis was 653 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: just saying, this is tough. We've been seen him in 654 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: the hall, as we saw him at the State of 655 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: the Union the other night. He's a sitting US senator 656 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: and he's balancing an extremely difficult situation involving his health. 657 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: He is, and you know, I give him so much 658 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: credit for checking himself in voluntarily. I think it's particularly 659 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: important for men who sometimes don't want to admit that, 660 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: as we know in our culture that they need help 661 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: in this regard. So I give him so much credit. 662 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: And here's somebody who didn't manage his health, he said himself, 663 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: and so did his wife previously. So it's good that 664 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: he is doing this. And of course the people of 665 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania have got to be very concerned. But you know, 666 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: he's doing this voluntarily. Depression can be treated and and 667 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: thank goodness he's catching it now and hopefully able to 668 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: come out on top and moving forward. Rick, I'm not 669 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: sure how you'd handle this if if you were helping 670 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: to advise John Federman. He was asked during the campaign 671 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: to release health records following his stroke and and the 672 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: beginnings of his recovery, and he chose not to do that. 673 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: What does he owe his con stituents more than, if 674 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: anything more than the statement he put out today. Yeah, 675 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: it's very difficult. UM. Uh. Having worked with UM John 676 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: McCain during a number of surgeries, UH, and UH had 677 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: to answer those questions ourselves about what he was going through, 678 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: what his prognosises were, how he was being treated, how 679 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: he's being recovered. UM. You know, you you have to 680 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: you have to bridge it with family privacy. UH. And 681 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: in this case, I would say family privacy UH takes precedence. 682 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: And certainly I would you know, UM, include him and 683 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: my prayers and his family and my prayers today because 684 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 1: I know this is a very difficult situation he's going through. 685 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: And there is no there's no pattern, there is no 686 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: UM process that you can plug into and say, Okay, 687 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: this is what everybody else has done, and this is 688 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: how I'm going to do it. It's a intensely personal 689 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: matter and and seems that the family is handling it 690 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: extremely well. And and you know, our our our thoughts 691 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: and prayers go out to them. You're listening to The 692 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at 693 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: five pm Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, 694 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can 695 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 696 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven. So what's 697 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,720 Speaker 1: the opposite of a Mike drop moment? After President Biden 698 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: delivered his address today on the China spy balloon and 699 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: the three UFOs, He's standing there at the podium in 700 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: the South Court auditorium, you know, with a room full 701 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: of sharks reporters looking to make news, ready to shout 702 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: questions the second he stops talking. The way you avoid 703 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: that is you turn around and walk off the stage. 704 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: Mike drop moment. Now, I don't even hear you. Now, 705 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: if you choose to engage, you kind of have to 706 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: know the direction you're going in here, or you could 707 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: have what took place today as the President again found 708 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: himself standing at a podium with dozens of reporters shouting 709 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: at him. This is what it sounded like as he 710 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: was about to walk away from the podium. There's been criticism. 711 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: There's been criticism that this wasn't There's been criticism to this, sir, 712 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: Mr President, Mr President, there has been criticism, Mr President, 713 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: there has been criticism over reaction that was done because 714 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: of political pressure. That's the question that if we had 715 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: more polite people, He said, well, of course, this reporter 716 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: he's asking him about whether his family's dealings compromise. He said, 717 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: you got to give me a breakman. That was the 718 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: only question he gave to the reporters, and it looked 719 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: like he was trying to let One of those reporters, 720 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: possibly even the Fox News reporter in the room, asked 721 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: if he was overreacting in shooting down the other three UFOs. 722 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: Final throats thoughts from our panel here. We have two 723 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: expert communicators with us and both would just love to 724 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: get an hour with Joe Biden to tell not to 725 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: do that anymore. Genie Chanzano and Rick Davis. Ricky can't 726 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: give him the hook, right how do how does the 727 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: president of the communication staff avoid moments like this? This 728 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: is a this is always an issue. It's always the 729 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: last question. It gets into trouble. One more question, No, 730 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: no more questions. Uh. You know the staff jumps in 731 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: front of these Okay, thank you very much. Oh no, 732 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: a lot a lot him ask more more question. Uh. 733 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: And for whatever reason, politicians think that's cute and entertaining 734 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: and somehow well in order to some benefit. And then 735 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: they get this really hard question and then watched it 736 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: and that's what you remember that day. Um. Yeah, he 737 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: just needs to turn around and walk away. I mean 738 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: the press are complicit in this, right, There's no reason 739 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: for them to be shouting questions at him if he's 740 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: never gonna stop and actually turn around and answer them. 741 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: So you know, at some point in time, it's a 742 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: learned behavior. It's Pavlovian, right. I mean, if you don't 743 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 1: turn around and answer their questions, someday they'll quit yelling 744 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: at them. So I just it is the ultimate frustration 745 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: of communications staff to not have politicians who will adhere 746 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 1: to the any set of rules. And then they complain, Oh, 747 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: these press or animals, they just are out of control. 748 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,399 Speaker 1: And like you faith them all the time, get off 749 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: the stage. If they think they're gonna make some news, Genie, 750 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: that's their job, right, They got to bring something back 751 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,879 Speaker 1: to the newsroom. Then again, there were some concerns today 752 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: apparently within the press corps about decorum because with everyone 753 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: acting like that, no one today got any news, did they. Yeah, 754 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 1: that's right, you know, so that there is a drawback there. 755 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: But everybody is trying to get their questions and and 756 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: I think what you know is very telling is that 757 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: you do see Biden avoid many of them, but the 758 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,879 Speaker 1: ones he responds to are the ones we know that 759 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: really irk him, Like all politicians, it's the ones about 760 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: his family. We know that's deeply troubling to Joe Biden, 761 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: and they keep pushing at it, and he responds he 762 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: should take a lesson from George Santos. Pull out those 763 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: Duncan donuts or whatever donuts you and Rick want, give 764 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: them to the press and move along. Just the half 765 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: dozen crispies, you'd you'd have this thing solved. Rick Davis, 766 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's not Duncan donuts. Crispy Rick Davis and 767 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzana, we've got one more I'm looking forward to 768 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: our conversation tomorrow on the fastest hour in politics. What 769 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: was the quote, come on man of Joe Matthew. This 770 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg