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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. We are sadly not

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Speaker 3: joined by Ryan grim or Segar and Nettie, although there

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Speaker 3: will be plenty of Segar and Nettie and today's show

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Speaker 3: because you got some questions at the White House briefing yesterday,

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Speaker 3: as he talked about on the channel. But Crystal is

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Speaker 3: in and I am so excited. Crystal, thanks for being here.

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Speaker 4: It's always my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Ryan home with some sick kiddos, but we are hoping,

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Speaker 2: he said, if things are chill at home and like

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Speaker 2: relatively you know, peaceful. He's going to join us later

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Speaker 2: in the show for an update on Mackmood Khalil. And

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Speaker 2: they're like a million things that we have in the

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Speaker 2: show today. I was looking at the lineup Emily, Literally,

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Speaker 2: any one of these blocks could have led the show. Normally,

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Speaker 2: there's yeah, normally there's some stuff that's clearly like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're interested in it, but we recognize it's not all

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Speaker 2: that important, and you try to put the most important

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Speaker 2: things at the front of the show. Today, literally, any

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Speaker 2: of these blocks I think could have gone first, because

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Speaker 2: each one of them is extremely consequential.

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Speaker 3: It is a whole show of a blocks, and the

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Speaker 3: news cycle just keeps changing. Crystal, we were talking about

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Speaker 3: how yesterday we had to rework the show like several

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Speaker 3: different times because yesterday's news cycle. I mean many such cases, right,

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Speaker 3: There have been a lot of crazy news cycles, but

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Speaker 3: yesterday was one of the crazier ones. So we're going

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Speaker 3: to start by talking about the tariffs, which was a

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Speaker 3: roller coaster yesterday. We have some new footage of Howard

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Speaker 3: lutnek answering questions. We have some footage of Sager getting

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Speaker 3: questions in a White House briefing, and some updates on

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Speaker 3: where the tariffs stand right now. Jeff Stein is going

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Speaker 3: to join us to talk even more about the tariff policy. Particularly,

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Speaker 3: we're going to start talking about Wall Street and tariffs

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Speaker 3: and all of that. But then Jeff is going to

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Speaker 3: be in the show. We're excited to have him with

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Speaker 3: us to go through how particularly the tariffs are being

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Speaker 3: viewed around the world and how they're affecting or how

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Speaker 3: the Trump administration is approaching them. Then Crystal, late yesterday

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Speaker 3: we learned the Education Department was taking its first step

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Speaker 3: towards shutting down by laying off fifty percent fifty percent

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Speaker 3: of its staff. So we're going to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about how the House of Representatives

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Speaker 3: actually passed a spending bill to avert a government shutdown

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Speaker 3: and is now in the hands of the Senate and

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Speaker 3: leaves Democrats with a sort of interesting question on their

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Speaker 3: hands as they head into the second half of this week.

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Speaker 3: Ryan will hopefully join us for a conversation about Mahmoud

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Speaker 3: Khalil Saga was able to ask the White House about

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Speaker 3: that at the briefing yesterday. So we have footage and

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Speaker 3: we have new updates from drop site and other sources,

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Speaker 3: and then we will be talking about another massive story,

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Speaker 3: another a block. Marco Rubio and National Security Advisor Mike

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Speaker 3: Waltz walked out of a marathon meeting with their Ukrainian

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Speaker 3: counterpoints counterparts. If there is a Ukrainian counterpoints I would

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Speaker 3: love to see that, but counterparts with a ceasefire proposal

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Speaker 3: that they sent over to Russia. Steve Witkoff is headed

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Speaker 3: for a meeting with Vladimir Putin this week. So now

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Speaker 3: that we have the run of show laid out, everyone

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Speaker 3: can see. Man, what a time to be alive, Crystal.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with the economy and this incredible snippet of

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Speaker 3: a new interview that Howard Lutnik gave. If this is

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Speaker 3: a zero watch.

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Speaker 1: This, will these policies be worth it if they lead

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Speaker 1: to a recession, even a short term recession.

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Speaker 3: These policies are the most important thing America.

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Speaker 4: Has ever had, So it is worth it.

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Speaker 5: It is worth it a I don't think that the

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Speaker 5: only reason that could possibly be a.

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Speaker 4: Recession is because of the Biden nonsense that we have

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Speaker 4: to live with.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs are now putting the

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Speaker 3: likelihood of a recession around forty sixty, so forty percent

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Speaker 3: likelihood of a recession, and you have massively wealthy people

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Speaker 3: like Howard Lutnik obviously Commerce Secretary there saying a recession

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Speaker 3: would be worth it. Crystal, this is just to pause

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Speaker 3: on this clip before we get to Sager's question at

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Speaker 3: the White House. It's the messaging, the optics. Just on

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Speaker 3: the surface level, you have a bunch of billionaires walking

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Speaker 3: around saying, don't worry about it, it's worth it.

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Speaker 2: It's worth it, and it's worth it for what exactly?

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Speaker 2: Like that's the other piece is I'm not sure that

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Speaker 2: they've really explained what all of us, all of like

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Speaker 2: regular Americans out there, are meant to be sacrificing in

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Speaker 2: service of. Is the other piece of it, which is

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Speaker 2: what we've talked about with the tarraf policy, where Trump

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Speaker 2: has had like eighteen different explanations for why we're putting

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Speaker 2: on tariffs, including making Canada the fifty first Aid, something

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Speaker 2: that was not proposed on the campaign trail and no

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Speaker 2: one voted for, but you know, suddenly as a major

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Speaker 2: priority in US policy, and you're supposed to suffer in

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Speaker 2: order to make this happen, like it's insane, and you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a few things with regard to to Lutnik here

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Speaker 2: that are important to point out as well. I sent

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Speaker 2: you guys this article yesterday from Politico. Apparently Trump aids

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Speaker 2: are preparing to throw Howard Lutnick under the bus for

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Speaker 2: the you know, poor economic numbers and poor economic political

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Speaker 2: standing of Trump. In fact, there's a new CNN poll

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Speaker 2: out that has him at his lowest numbers ever in

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Speaker 2: terms of how people feel.

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Speaker 4: He's handling the economy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously this has been a traditional area of

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Speaker 2: strength for Trump. It is arguably the core reason why

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Speaker 2: people decided to re elect him as president of the

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Speaker 2: United States, and now he is profoundly underwater there. His

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Speaker 2: approval rating has slipped, you know, decidedly negative at least

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Speaker 2: in terms of the CNN poll. Significant movement there for

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Speaker 2: Trump elon even more profoundly unpopular with the America and public.

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Speaker 2: And so people are positioning or preparing to throw Lutnik

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Speaker 2: under the bus and say, how this guy is doing

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Speaker 2: crazy stuff. He's saying crazy things, and you know clip

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Speaker 2: like this where he's like, yeah, recession, I think that's

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Speaker 2: probably worth it. That certainly adds to their arsenal of

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Speaker 2: what they'll use. But you know, it's never Trump's fault.

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Speaker 2: It's always got to be someone else's fault if things

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Speaker 2: are going sideways.

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Speaker 3: That's always an interesting line for the White House to walk,

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Speaker 3: taking credit for the effects of the tariffs when they

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Speaker 3: see them as positive bringing jobs back to Indiana, for

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Speaker 3: example with the Hana Cimic situation, or then you know,

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Speaker 3: shouldering the making Howard Lutink shoulder the blame when things

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Speaker 3: go south. Let's listen to this question that Sagar got in.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry Sagar got in at yesterday's briefing. Here he

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Speaker 3: is talking to Caroline Lovett.

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Speaker 6: Today we have Sagar Annetti, who is the host of

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Speaker 6: Breaking Points, a popular political YouTube news and podcast show.

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Speaker 7: Really appreciate you having me, Caroline. A couple of questions

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Speaker 7: for you, if I may, versus first on this stock market. Currently,

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Speaker 7: it's the twenty fifth anniversary today of the dot com

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Speaker 7: bubble crash. There's a lot of concern for a lot

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Speaker 7: of Americans right now about the state of the economy.

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Speaker 7: President Trump has refused to rule out of recession. Secretary Lutnik, however,

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Speaker 7: has told us there will not be one. So can

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Speaker 7: the White House just tell and sure Americans today that

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Speaker 7: there's not going to be a recession.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot to unpack there.

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Speaker 6: So let me start by saying that, first of all,

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Speaker 6: when it comes to the stock market, the numbers that

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Speaker 6: we see today, the numbers we saw yesterday, the numbers

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Speaker 6: we saw we will see tomorrow, are a snapshot.

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Speaker 3: Of a moment of time.

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Speaker 6: And as President Trump has said, and I'm here to

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Speaker 6: echo the remarks of this president of this White House,

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Speaker 6: we are in a period of economic transition. We are

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Speaker 6: in a period of transition from the mess that was

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Speaker 6: created under Joe Biden in the previous administration.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, Chris, Well, that's really the new messaging is

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Speaker 3: this is a period of quote economic transition. And again,

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Speaker 3: it's one thing to have Trump making that case. It's

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Speaker 3: another thing to have Howard Lutnik and non Trump. Trump

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Speaker 3: is such a singular figure, but to have other billionaires

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Speaker 3: running around making that case, it's clearly the best that

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Speaker 3: they've landed on. Though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm curious from your perspective, Emily, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think people were willing to give Trump a bit

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Speaker 2: of a grace period. You know, he came in hot,

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Speaker 2: did a whole lot of stuff. People were like, all right,

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Speaker 2: let's see where all of this goes. You know, we're

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Speaker 2: now fifty days into the administration, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: that it is going to I don't think people are

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Speaker 2: going to buy that this is all Biden's fault, because

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Speaker 2: because Trump has made so many moves, he has really

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Speaker 2: taken ownership of everything that happens in the country, including

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Speaker 2: what happens in the country economically. So I know they

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Speaker 2: want to say, like, oh, this is all Biden's fault

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Speaker 2: and so we've got to clean up his mess, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. I'm sure his base will buy that, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think that that rationale is going to land

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Speaker 2: very effectively much beyond his sort of like hardcore supporters, because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, because he has taken so much action.

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Speaker 2: You know, on the one hand, people sort of liked

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Speaker 2: that sense of like, oh, things are happening. But now

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Speaker 2: that things have turned and you're looking at recession and

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Speaker 2: you're looking at days on days of stock market crashing

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Speaker 2: and consumer confidence is down, we're actually going to get

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Speaker 2: inflation reading today that you know a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are anticipating. We'll see what happens there as well, but

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Speaker 2: now that things are turning south, I think he is

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Speaker 2: going to shoulder the blame because he's in charge and

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Speaker 2: he really has, you know, sort of taken hold of

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Speaker 2: this thing in a way that's pretty undeniable.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because, yeah, there's a there's such a The

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Speaker 3: style is part of the substance here. Obviously for Trump,

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Speaker 3: he's trying to keep things completely unpredictable. We talked about

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Speaker 3: this actually after his joint address last week, Like part

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Speaker 3: of the plan here is so that nobody, even close

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Speaker 3: analysts of this who watch, have any idea what you're doing,

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Speaker 3: because that takes it to China and Canada and Mexico

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Speaker 3: and they have no idea what you're doing. And that's

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Speaker 3: really the only way Trump thinks, you know, the fifty

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Speaker 3: first state thing for example, like he's really needling them.

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Speaker 3: But that's also ends up being part of the substance

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Speaker 3: when it comes to the market. So there was an

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Speaker 3: interesting story in Reuter's yesterday going around and actually talking

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Speaker 3: to folks in Wisconsin and manufacturing Wisconsin who would be

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Speaker 3: affected by the tariffs. And we've seen this with farmers

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Speaker 3: as well in Midwest and all those different products. In

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Speaker 3: Trump's first term that were affected by tariffs and then continue

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Speaker 3: to be affected by the Biden tariffs. You often hear

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Speaker 3: and it seems that you're still hearing some patients with

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Speaker 3: Trump's policies because there was an expectation that they would

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Speaker 3: be radical, that they would be hard to predict, that

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Speaker 3: they would be significant, and so people sort of prepared

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Speaker 3: in advance. That's what Reuters was talking to some of

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Speaker 3: these manufacturing and agriculture people about. They expected to not

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Speaker 3: know what to expect, and so they had already started

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Speaker 3: looking into their supply chain and all of that. But

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Speaker 3: the question is, you know, when does that truly wear off?

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Speaker 3: And I Crystal WoT Donald Trump, he's tethered himself so

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Speaker 3: closely to the market during his campaign and looking back

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Speaker 3: on his first presidency that it may ultimately be one

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Speaker 3: of the things that screws him in terms of the

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Speaker 3: public perception. He's really going to have to find more

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Speaker 3: cases like the Honda Civic. He's really going to have

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Speaker 3: to find just all of these examples of jobs like

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Speaker 3: flooding back to the United States to make the case

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Speaker 3: that we're in a quote transition period in a way

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Speaker 3: that's successful, that successfully persuades voters who are looking at

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Speaker 3: their portfolios or in their communities and going, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, he's tied himself historically over the course of

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Speaker 2: his career and certainly over the course of his first

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Speaker 2: presidency to the markets. He's also, in this presidency tied

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Speaker 2: himself to Elon, who is increasingly profoundly unpopular and doesn't

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Speaker 2: have some of the I mean, Trump has like magic

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Speaker 2: powers when it comes to his political standing. We all

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Speaker 2: know he can do things and say things, get away

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Speaker 2: with things that literally no one else in history has

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Speaker 2: ever done. Elon doesn't have quite those same powers. Now,

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Speaker 2: Elon has his own powers. Obviously, he's got his own

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Speaker 2: base and following and culture personality, and in a certain

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Speaker 2: way he is a similar sort of branding genius in

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Speaker 2: the same way that you know that Trump is just

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Speaker 2: with like a different kind of a flavor. But Elon

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Speaker 2: doesn't have that same political teflon that Trump does.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: I think early on the thought was that Elon could

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Speaker 2: serve as a kind of a heat shield. So as

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Speaker 2: he's making all of these dramatic cuts and imposing this

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Speaker 2: radical austerity on the federal government, including in things that

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Speaker 2: are really popular, like, for example, public education is really popular.

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Speaker 2: Are we talking about that? Social security really popular? Airplanes

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Speaker 2: safely landing really popular. You know, they thought, I think

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Speaker 2: that Elon could sort of shoulder take the blame and

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Speaker 2: you know, serve as as as his heat shield as

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Speaker 2: this sort of protected barrier. But the flip side of

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Speaker 2: that is, because Elon is taking on so much water

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Speaker 2: without having that teflon coating that Trump seems to that

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Speaker 2: it actually could have an increasingly negative impact directly on

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Speaker 2: Trump and weigh him down in a way that he

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Speaker 2: hasn't been weighed down in the past. I want to

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Speaker 2: skip ahead and then we'll come back to the CNBC

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Speaker 2: said if we could put eight three up on the

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Speaker 2: screen because I thought this was interesting.

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Speaker 4: This is from Jail Partners.

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Speaker 2: They do these word clouds, which are always fun asking,

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Speaker 2: and they ask people what is Trump's biggest grew up

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Speaker 2: so far, and tariffs jumps right off the page, you know,

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Speaker 2: even at their most popular. And by the way, Tariff's

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Speaker 2: spelled incorrectly two different ways also ranks up there pretty closely.

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Speaker 2: Keep this up on the screen though for a second,

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Speaker 2: just so people can take a look at and really

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Speaker 2: digest this. You know, tariffs, even at Trump's when Trump

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Speaker 2: was doing his best job pitching them the campaign and

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Speaker 2: saying this is what's going to bring jobs back, and

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Speaker 2: people are thinking about, you know, tarifs on China in particular,

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Speaker 2: which is the most.

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Speaker 4: Positive territory for terriffs.

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Speaker 2: People are less favorable towards tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

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Speaker 2: Even at that point, they were kind of a fifty

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Speaker 2: to fifty proposition. Now when you've had this, they're on,

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Speaker 2: they're off. It's Canada, it's fentanyl, it's jobs. No, it's

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Speaker 2: we're going to make them the fifty first state. It's everything. No,

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Speaker 2: it's half of the goods. No, we're taking them off again.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I think it is one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest liabilities and he can't certainly can't blame Elon for

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Speaker 2: that one.

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Speaker 4: But if you look at.

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Speaker 2: The next level of what people say are like his

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Speaker 2: biggest grew ups, You've got a bunch of things related

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Speaker 2: to Elon. You've got Musk, Elon firing DOGE, federal workers.

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Speaker 2: So if you kind of put all those together, you

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Speaker 2: can see those are the two dueling pieces that people

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Speaker 2: are most upset about with regard to Trump and the

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Speaker 2: way that he has approached the government.

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Speaker 3: So far, super super interesting. I would have been the

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Speaker 3: person who spelled tariff's wrong on the word cloud.

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Speaker 8: Let's jump back to Jesson jun Let's jump back to

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Speaker 8: the CNBC just thought that of Crystal Tease, because this

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Speaker 8: is how the tariff whirlwind, where basically Trump is and

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Speaker 8: different advisors who are talking to the media are saying

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Speaker 8: different things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, over the course of one day yesterday, there

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Speaker 3: were different lines about how the tariffs were being implemented,

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Speaker 3: what level of targeting was happening, and then what level

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Speaker 3: targeting wasn't happening with which country. So here's how the

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Speaker 3: NBC reacted. Let's roll a two.

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Speaker 9: I'm going to say this at risk of my job, Kelly,

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Speaker 9: but what President Trump is doing is insane. It is

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Speaker 9: absolutely insane. It is about the eighth reason we've had

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Speaker 9: for the tariffs, and now he's saying he's putting fifty

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Speaker 9: percent tariffs on Canada unless they agree to become the

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Speaker 9: fifty first state. That is insane. There is just no

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Speaker 9: other way of describing it. And the trouble, Kelly, is

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Speaker 9: that it shows there are no bounds around President Trump.

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Speaker 9: This is very different from the first and mintministration, where

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Speaker 9: there were people around him who seem to I don't

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Speaker 9: know what the word is, but smooth over some of

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Speaker 9: the edges now. And the other thing that's not talked about, Kelly,

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Speaker 9: is what's going on within the administration in terms of

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Speaker 9: how they're treating the constitution and laws. I think all

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Speaker 9: of that is bad for the attraction of capital. And

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Speaker 9: the gentleman from Bridgwarter is one hundred percent right. We

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Speaker 9: need massive amounts of capital if we want to have

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Speaker 9: fund our deficits, pay for the things we want to

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Speaker 9: pay for, sell our bonds, and have high stock prices.

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Speaker 9: And it seems as if this administration is doing everything

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Speaker 9: it can to chase foreign capital away.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I like how he says. The gentleman from Bridgewater

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Speaker 3: is absolutely correct.

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Speaker 2: Like they're in Congress, I think, to you, it's funny

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Speaker 2: to me how these guys think, because he's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: is wild violations of the Constitution. What really matters here

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Speaker 2: is this is bad for capital. Like everything just runs

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Speaker 2: through good for profit motive, bad for profit motive. And

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Speaker 2: he's come to the conclusion that, like you know, completely

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Speaker 2: tearing up the constitution might be bad for capital attraction,

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Speaker 2: so that's his issue with it. The other part I

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Speaker 2: found kind of funny is that he said at the

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Speaker 2: risk of losing his job, Like why would this cause

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Speaker 2: you to risk your job? But anyway, the main point

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Speaker 2: here being first of all, just you know how aggressive

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Speaker 2: he is there and how much he thinks this policy

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Speaker 2: is totally insane, which obviously I agree with and I

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Speaker 2: think many people at this point agree with. But I

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Speaker 2: think it also reminds us that this is something we

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Speaker 2: can talk more to Jeff Stein about that these guys

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Speaker 2: really didn't take Trump seriously on the campaign trail when

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Speaker 2: he was repeatedly like, no, I'm really into tariffs. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to put on a lot of tariffs. They are

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Speaker 2: going to be across the board tariffs. Tariffs is the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful word in the English language. And they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that part I don't think he's really serious about. We

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Speaker 2: think he just means it when he talks about giving

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Speaker 2: us tax cuts and deregulating everything, and that part we're

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Speaker 2: excited about. So that's what we're going to focus on.

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Speaker 2: So I think now you have a realization setting in

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Speaker 2: which is partly reflected in the way that the you know,

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Speaker 2: the market has been crashing. I do think I looked

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Speaker 2: in the futures were up this morning. But the way

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Speaker 2: that the market has responded this far, which has been

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Speaker 2: terrible for the first fifty days here of the Trump administration,

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Speaker 2: I do think it is a sort of setting in

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Speaker 2: of reality for these guys of like, oh shit, this

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Speaker 2: dude was actually serious about the stuff that he was saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted actually On that note, take out this

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Speaker 3: quote from a CNN article IM reading right now. This

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Speaker 3: is from Ross Mayfield, who's an investment strategist at Baird

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Speaker 3: He says, quote, there's a tolerance for pain that maybe

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Speaker 3: some investors hadn't priced in related to the Trump administration's

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Speaker 3: tolerance for pain is what he's referring to there, Because

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Speaker 3: you're seeing Donald Trump say, for example, markets are going

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Speaker 3: to go up and they're going to go down, but

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Speaker 3: you know what, we have to rebuild our country. And

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Speaker 3: then obviously Howard Lutnik, as we mentioned earlier in Caroline

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Speaker 3: Levitt As Soccer, got her on the record about all

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Speaker 3: of that. So CNN continues to say, we haven't gotten

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Speaker 3: into some of these hard numbers yet, but the S

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Speaker 3: and P five hundred dipped about It closed about nine

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Speaker 3: point three percent, down from that February record high. Yesterday,

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Speaker 3: all three major indexes dropped after Trump doubled down earlier

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Speaker 3: in the day yesterday, but by the afternoon CNN rights

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Speaker 3: markets had paired some lessons as officials from both the

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Speaker 3: US and Canada said they would meet this week to

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Speaker 3: de escalate tensions and renegotiate trade policy. Crystal. It's quite

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Speaker 3: interesting though, that's giving anybody some hope because it's now

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Speaker 3: like Trump negotiating over the fifty first state right with

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Speaker 3: Canadian negotiators. So I actually don't know how much can

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Speaker 3: come out of those meetings at this point. Canada, I

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Speaker 3: was I'd forgotten this, but Canada has one hundred percent

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Speaker 3: tariff on Chinese EV's like they're not at all many

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Speaker 3: people are aware of this. They're not at all averse

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Speaker 3: to their own tariff agenda. So maybe that's a bargaining

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Speaker 3: trip for the Trump administration going forward, but I don't

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Speaker 3: know what right.

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Speaker 2: I think they'd be pretty happy about Canada having those

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Speaker 2: tariffs on Chinese ev that favorable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, but just that Canada uses tariffs

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Speaker 3: as its own type of policy and I think you'll

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Speaker 3: see some of that probably as they sit down at

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Speaker 3: the table and talk. There's some of these things, but

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, it's genuinely hard to know.

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Speaker 3: We were talking about this earlier. What Trump wants from Canada.

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Speaker 3: Canada doesn't know. Trump's advisors don't seem to know what

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Speaker 3: he wants from Canada at this point. My best guess

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Speaker 3: is that he wants to he wants companies to do

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Speaker 3: business in Canada to not know what his end goal is,

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Speaker 3: so that they end up betting on the United States

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Speaker 3: rather than betting on Canada. I think that's the read

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Speaker 3: that's most likely, but it's really hard to know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is what I want to talk

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Speaker 2: to Jeff Stein about and see what his best read

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Speaker 2: of the situation are, because I've seen like eighteen different

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Speaker 2: theories floated, including that they just like the market chaos,

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Speaker 2: because if you're an insider and you can predict where

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Speaker 2: when to buy the dip and when he's going to

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Speaker 2: make a new announcement about tariffs a spikes market, you

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Speaker 2: could be in a pretty profitable position. So yeah, I

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Speaker 2: want to talk to Jeff about what he thinks is

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Speaker 2: actually going on. Here, not that I think that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if anyone could figure it out, it would be Jeff.

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Speaker 2: But I'm not sure that anyone, including maybe Trump, really

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Speaker 2: knows what he's up to you here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let's actually move on to this Tesla commercial

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Speaker 3: that happened on the White House at the White House yesterday,

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Speaker 3: because we have the video. This is going to be

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Speaker 3: a four. To the control room. Trump was doing a

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Speaker 3: It was talking to reporters actually next to Elon Musk,

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Speaker 3: next to x little ex, Elon Musk's son, and they

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Speaker 3: had all kinds of Teslas outside of the White House,

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Speaker 3: parked on the driveway, and Trump made a little bit

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Speaker 3: of an announcement so we could go ahead and roll

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Speaker 3: a four.

436
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 10: I bought for a very special young woman, do you know.

437
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 10: I'm sure you've never heard of Herkai And she's a

438
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 10: great golfer and she puts the clubs in the back

439
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 10: and I guess it's a very safe deal.

440
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 7: She loves it.

441
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 10: And I actually bought one about a year ago, and

442
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 10: she loves it. And it's very safe. It's very strong, heavy,

443
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 10: it's all steel stainless, ye know, but the cars themselves,

444
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 10: So what is this one? You know that's a that's

445
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 10: a lot of Why so I have a lot of

446
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 10: information that's put it into price. Yeah, I want to

447
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 10: make a good deal here. You know, I do notice

448
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 10: this they have won, which is thirty five thousand dollars,

449
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 10: which is pretty low.

450
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 7: What is that you.

451
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: Find a Tesla will boost Tesla sales and boost Look,

452
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 3: look is that I care about one thing.

453
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 10: When somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't be hurt.

454
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 10: He's a great patriot. He didn't know me from Adam

455
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 10: until we met a little bit when I was in

456
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,679
Speaker 10: my first term, but he came out he endorsed me

457
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 10: very strongly.

458
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 3: So when somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't get hurt.

459
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 3: Is like what I'm going to say to a cop

460
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 3: if they complain that I'm violating like open container laws.

461
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: If somebody is a patriot, if somebody is the patriot,

462
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 3: they should not be hurt. Officer Chris So, this was

463
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 3: somewhat extraordinary. I think you've seen presidents I'm thinking of

464
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: Obama in particular with social media highlight great American Companies

465
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: perceived great American companies Before bringing the Teslas onto the

466
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: White House line and talking about how much of a

467
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: genius Elon Musk was that was an and interesting move

468
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 3: that just seems unnecessary. I don't actually even understand what

469
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 3: the point of that conversation was.

470
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the point is that Tesla's stock is

471
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: particularly in the toilet they're down fifty percent from they're

472
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: high in December. Sales are plummeting around the world. In

473
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 2: Europe they're down like fifty percent.

474
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 7: You know.

475
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 2: In addition to Elon just being a completely toxic character,

476
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: especially for your average ev buyer, they also have a

477
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: stale product line. They also have increased competition for China,

478
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: so the company is truly struggling.

479
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 4: And then you've.

480
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 2: Got you know, Elon who not only put quorder of

481
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 2: a billion dollars into Trump's can pain, but just yesterday

482
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 2: after this whole you know, sales pitch on the White

483
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 2: House lawn, turning it into like a car lot. After that,

484
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: we learn, oh, and Elon just happened to have right

485
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 2: now at this moment, offered to put another one hundred

486
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 2: million dollars into Trumpelne packs. So you know, when you

487
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: ask what's different between this and let's say, you know,

488
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 2: Joe Biden went to the Ford factory and drove one

489
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 2: of their ev lightning f one fifties.

490
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 4: What's different?

491
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 2: Show me the Ford CEO who gave him a quarter

492
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: of a billion dollars and is now putting another one

493
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: hundred million into his campaign, coffers, That's what's really different.

494
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: Not to mention, of course Elon himself having this insanely

495
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 2: powerful position in government where he really is deciding who stays,

496
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: who goes, what happens, what's a priority, and funneling contracts

497
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 2: into his own companies while he's at it, defenestrating the

498
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: regulatory environment so that none of them can investigate his many,

499
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 2: you know, alleged abuses of our regulatory system, including we

500
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: just had yet another SpaceX rocket that blew up. So

501
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: that's what makes this just so insanely nakedly corrupt, is

502
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: you literally have the President filming an ad on the

503
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: White House lawn for his largest by far campaign contributor.

504
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 3: Well, and it just to me, I don't understand what's

505
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: in it for Donald Trump to be this And I

506
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: know you have an answer to this, Crystal, but to

507
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 3: be this gratuitous and to be this just completely fawning

508
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: drooling over Elon Musk and Tesla We can actually put

509
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: a seven on the screen. Skip ahead here. Trump was

510
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 3: I don't want to say cock because I don't think

511
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: he was trying to hide it, but he had some

512
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: talking points in his hand as he was discussing the

513
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: Tesla's where he had all of the prices listed out,

514
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: sort of like you're doing a sales pitch.

515
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 4: The sales pitch notes. That's what it is.

516
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, So yeah, and it's just it does you know,

517
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 3: make you truly wonder? I mean, one hundred million dollars.

518
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 3: It's kind of sad because that's less than half of

519
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 3: what Elon Musk infused into Trump's campaign in the late stages,

520
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 3: which is just the amount of money that he's able

521
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: to just throw around is stunning. But it does just

522
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 3: like for Trump to go to that links to sell

523
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 3: electric vehicles. I mean, we're not even talking about we

524
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 3: know he loves you know, Caterpillar. We know he loves

525
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 3: the fun trucks and the big toys, but it just

526
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: this isn't that these are like electric vehicles. These are not.

527
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 3: Trump has himself come around on electric vehicles because of

528
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 3: Elon Musk, but to go to all of the effort

529
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 3: that they went to yesterday it just you, really it does.

530
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: It does make you wonder. It's so out of character.

531
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: I think for Trump that it really makes you wonder.

532
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: So just buying buying evs to own the libs is

533
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: a pretty funny development, you know.

534
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 3: Not even just buying them, but like obsessing, fawning over

535
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 3: the product.

536
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: Kannity too, Sean Hannity doing the same thing. He was

537
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: running some promotion on his show and whatever. Like it

538
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: is really preposterous and frankly humiliating. I mean, I also

539
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: think it's sort of pathetic for Elon that he's gotten

540
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: to this point with Tesla where he's got to beg

541
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: the president for favors and to buy one and tout

542
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: his product, et cetera. And Elon has been aggressively using

543
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: x as well to promote, like people who were posting

544
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: that on social media that they bought a Tesla to

545
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: support Elon and how great Tesla is, et cetera. He's

546
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: been using his platform a lot to do that because

547
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the company genuinely is in trouble.

548
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: I also think their stock parts has long been like

549
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 2: wildly overvalued. You know, there was an expectation not unreasonable

550
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: after Trump was elected. Of course, Elon has this prominent

551
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: position that that would be really beneficial for the company.

552
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: But I think what wasn't priced in, to use the

553
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: law of Wall Street lingo, is the fact that Elon

554
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: would become this incredibly increasingly toxic figure for their primary

555
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: customer base. And so you know, most people like they're

556
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: not trying to make a political statement with their car,

557
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: and now having a Tesla has become a political statement

558
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: and like a divisive one. So yeah, that's going to

559
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: turn off a significant portion of your likely consumer base,

560
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: especially since it's mostly Libs who buy Tesla's, So it's

561
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: it's a major problem. But you know, I just I

562
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: can't get over the corruption aspect of this and how

563
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 2: out in like out in the open it all is

564
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: like literally the day he does the sales pitch, you

565
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: announced you're doing this hundred million dollar cash infusion. Like,

566
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: I mean, the Biden crime family couldn't dream, right, Pelosia

567
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: insider trading, couldn't dream of this level of just naked

568
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: pay for play that everyone's just like, yeah, that's just Trump, That's.

569
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: Just what he does.

570
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: The state has really taken on characteristics of both a

571
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: sort of clienteleism which is just this very like transactional

572
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: government where it's like, you know, patronage, and you do

573
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: for me, and I'm going to do for you. I'm

574
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: going to reward my friends, I'm going to screw over

575
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: my enemies, and overt oligarchy. I mean, the fact that

576
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: Elon is the richest person on the planet and Trump

577
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: has stocked his cabinet with billionaires, and you've got Bezos

578
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: and Zuckerberg and everybody else rushing in to be part

579
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 2: of that favored oligarch class. I mean, I think those

580
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: are sort of the two competing frameworks you should use

581
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: to understand the choices that are being made here and

582
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: the way Trump has decided to run his run the

583
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: country this time. And you know, it's very consistent with

584
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: if you're a CEO of a company, of a big company,

585
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: and you're used to trying to kind of, you know,

586
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,479
Speaker 2: both being that transactional person and also being sort of

587
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: like the king of this corporate empire. You can see

588
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: how it appeals to him to run the country in

589
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: exactly the same way, and this time that is precisely

590
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: what is happening, because any of the checks and the

591
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: guardrails that existed any of the like genuine resistance to

592
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: him that existed in the first term is just completely

593
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: like either melted away or they have taken affirmative staf

594
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: apps to make sure that those guardrails do not hold

595
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 2: this time around.

596
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 3: I actually think if I were a Tesla investor, would

597
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 3: make me nervous that Musk is so close to the government.

598
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: It was always close to the government, but is this

599
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 3: close to the government, because I think that just engenders

600
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: a sense of complacency that would I mean, you end

601
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: up getting so many favors that it's yeah, and we've

602
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: talked about that before. Is like it's it's not it

603
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: doesn't create better products. So we have to before we

604
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: move on from this block and get to Jeff Crystal

605
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: roll this clip of Peter Deucy from Fox News getting

606
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: a great question in at this little daggle on the

607
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 3: White House lawn yesterday. This is a six.

608
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 11: Well, there are some folks to schools see this clip

609
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 11: at home, and they are struggling with their retirement accounts

610
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 11: down at the moment, uncertainty about work ahead.

611
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 12: Well, I think are going to do great.

612
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 10: I think we're our country had to do this. We

613
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 10: had to go and do this. They've taken away other countries.

614
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 10: If taken away our business, they've taken away our jobs.

615
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 10: I did it initially very strongly against as you know,

616
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 10: China and some others in the first term, and it

617
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 10: was a very successful term. We had no inflation, we

618
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 10: had the greatest economy in the history of our country.

619
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 3: So crystal again, Trump can get away with it. You know,

620
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 3: at least we've seen that so far, and there's no

621
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 3: sign that that pattern is going to stop when it

622
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: comes to him as this very singular figure in American politics,

623
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: but he surrounded himself with other billionaires essentially, and particularly

624
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 3: with Elon Musk, and I think it's so long as

625
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: they're doing the messaging, going to be harder and harder

626
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 3: to say things like, yeah, you know, we're buying new

627
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: cars and we're waiting out this transition period in the economy.

628
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: So we just need you to be sort of patient

629
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 3: with us billionaires.

630
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worth it. The recession is worth it. In

631
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: the words, to return to you know, Howard Lutnik at

632
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: the beginning of the show, and I got to hand

633
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: it to Peter Deucy, that was a great question and

634
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 2: a really apt question, as much as I love Sargar's

635
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: Annetti's questions. Yesterday in the briefing room, Peter Deucy also

636
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 2: had a really great one too.

637
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 4: He was like, you know, it's.

638
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 2: Kind of like a offhanded one, but also very legit.

639
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: He was like, sure, nobody around here shorten the stock market,

640
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: you know, gesturing towards this theory that's out there of like,

641
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: you know, with you generating all of these wild swings

642
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: in the market, Hey, if you're an insider and you

643
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen, you could really be in

644
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: position to profit off of this. And you know, this

645
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: White House has done away with inspectors generals. They've rolled

646
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: back some of the ethics provisions for the White House

647
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: that were in place during the Biden administration. They engage

648
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: in activities like selling tessels on the White House lawn

649
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 2: while Elon Musk is funneling another one hundred million dollars

650
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: into Trump aligned packs. Trump is there, people are paying

651
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: CEOs are paying five million dollars for the honor of

652
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: being able to have a dinner with Trump, and again

653
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: that goes into like trumpell packs so that they can

654
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 2: make their case directly in this sort of like oligarchic

655
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: or clienteleist way to the King and receive his favor.

656
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 2: And this is the way business is being done with

657
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: Elon and Doge as well. Where you know, if you're

658
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: a Republican senator, not actually a member of the House,

659
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: but a Republican senator, you have Elan's personal phone number,

660
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: and if there's a project in your district that gets

661
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: cut that is causing you problems, you can call him,

662
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: and you can petition the King for a favor and

663
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: for special relief. If you are not in his political favor,

664
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: which means every Democrat you know, whether you're in a

665
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: red state or a blue state, or your state, whatever,

666
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: then you don't have that same opportunity to petition the

667
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: King and get the painful cuts to your constituents rolled back,

668
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: even though many of those constituents will also be Republicans

669
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 2: who voted for Donald Trump.

670
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: Well, let's bring Jeff Stein into drill down even deeper

671
00:33:54,440 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 3: on this question that is rocking the economy. Excited to

672
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: be joined now by Washington Post reporter Jeff Stein, who

673
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: has been all over the story. Jeff, thank you for

674
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: joining us.

675
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 13: Thanks for having me, guys.

676
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: As we start, I want to get your reaction to

677
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 3: this clip. I'm sure you've seen it by now, but

678
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 3: of Donald Trump on the White House long yesterday, all

679
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 3: those tesla's behind him, Elon Musk by his side, responding

680
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: to a question about Doug Ford. Let's go ahead and

681
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: roll b one.

682
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 10: Well, already Canada, and I respect very much. As you know,

683
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 10: there's a very strong man in Canada who said he

684
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 10: was going to.

685
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: Charge a search charge.

686
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 10: You're a taraphone electricity coming into Ochiga. He is called

687
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 10: and he said.

688
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 13: He's not going to do that.

689
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 10: Okay, he's not going to do that, and it would

690
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 10: have been a very bad thing if you did. And

691
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 10: he's not going to do this. So I respect that.

692
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 10: But we were just informed that he's not going to

693
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 10: do that.

694
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 3: So that's Trump referring to Ontario, Doug Ford of Ontario,

695
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: and Jeff, I think that is you know, I don't

696
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 3: know what actually happened there. Maybe you have a better

697
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 3: idea of what actually happened between Trump and Doug Ford,

698
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 3: a very strong man, as Trump says, But I guess

699
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: it speaks to the complicated interpersonal dynamics that are affecting

700
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: the tariffs overall. As Trump negotiates with Canadian leaders. So

701
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: do you have any insight into what went down?

702
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 13: I don't have the specific time on that call. We

703
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 13: know for sure that the Canadians had threatened not just

704
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 13: to raise the price of electricity for you know, roughly

705
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 13: a million Americans, but to actually shut it off. And

706
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 13: you know what the you know, administration announced yesterday was

707
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 13: that the doubling of the steel aluminium tariffs that Trump

708
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 13: had proposed from twenty five to fifty percent, which would

709
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 13: have been really bad for Canada. One of the top

710
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 13: Canadian exports to the US is steel, and had that

711
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 13: gone into effect, it would have probably you know, invited

712
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 13: the retaliation that Ford was alluding to. So it's a

713
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 13: little hard to know exactly what the sequence was of this,

714
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 13: And not to make excuses for my reporting gaps, but

715
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 13: this is playing off, playing out across dozens, if not

716
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 13: hundreds of countries right now, trying to avoid the import duties,

717
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 13: the massive you know, tariff taxes that Trump is imposing,

718
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 13: and what I guess what what ringing between the lines.

719
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 13: It seems what happened was the Trump people had been

720
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 13: back channeling that this twenty five to fifty percent hike

721
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 13: and stale aluminum was likely, and that came off yesterday

722
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 13: back to twenty five percent around the time that Trump

723
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 13: announced that the this you know that that Canada was

724
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 13: not going to retaliate on American electricity, you know, on

725
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 13: the users and in those northern states. But the degree

726
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 13: to which this can just fly off the handle at

727
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 13: any moment is pretty unnerving, especially if you're someone who

728
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 13: needs you know, Canadians have provided electricity.

729
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would, I would say so, I mean, you know,

730
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 2: to kind of bring people up to speed. Yesterday, there

731
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: was this back and forth between Trump and the Canadians.

732
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, Trump decided to roll

733
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: back the things that had been threatened. But there are

734
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: still other terrorists that are going into effect today. I mean,

735
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: there are a lot of theories, Jeff out there about

736
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: what the hell Trump is up to, Like is this

737
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 2: really about reindustrializing the country, because the approach doesn't really

738
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 2: make sense for that. It's definitely not really about fentanyl,

739
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: like I think we can all see through. That's kind

740
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: of ridiculous given the very small amounts of that drug

741
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: that come from Canada. There have been some theories about

742
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 2: how this is an attempt to actually do some sort

743
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 2: of controlled demolition of the economy, both to keep inflation

744
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: down and also to trigger interest rates being lowered so

745
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: that a refinance on the treasury debt will be more affordable.

746
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 2: Trudeau certainly thinks that Trump is serious about using economic

747
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 2: warfare to annex some or all of Canada. I've seen

748
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 2: some other sort of like eight D chess type theories

749
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: out there. The other you know, then there's more sort

750
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 2: of like the various theories, like they just want to

751
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: use these market spikes to insider trade and people are

752
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 2: profiting off of it, or they want to trigger a

753
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: recession because guess what coming out of recessions, usually the

754
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: rich people get even richer, the banks get even bigger,

755
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: and given that the government is being run, you know,

756
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 2: effectively as like an oligarchy, maybe that's the end goal here,

757
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: is they actually want to generate a recession.

758
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 4: Like, have you been able to come up.

759
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: With what is your theory of the case of what

760
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: he's actually up to here with all of this?

761
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, as a reporter, we sort of help

762
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 13: the traffic in the facts we have, and while we

763
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 13: should look very carefully to answer some of those questions

764
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 13: that you're posing. I mean, is there instead of trading

765
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 13: going on or Trump's you know, allies or family profiting

766
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 13: from the wild swings in the market that he seems

767
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 13: to be just himself self controlling with you know, who

768
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 13: knows the DJ is even investigating those carefully. While we

769
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 13: have to take those issues seriously, I think it's worth

770
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 13: saying that, you know, Trump has been very clear for

771
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,720
Speaker 13: over a year now that he sees tariffs as able

772
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 13: to do several different things, these things or intention He's

773
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 13: sort of the most generous possible interpretation we can give him,

774
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 13: I think, is that he views these these goals, these

775
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 13: separate goals for tariff policy as sort of all all worthwhile,

776
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 13: but maybe not all worthwhile simultaneously, or maybe some can

777
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 13: be accomplished and others can and that's okay. So just

778
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 13: to back up and try to explain this a little

779
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 13: more clearly, Trump has said, I think, really really importantly

780
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 13: to understanding Trump's motives that from his perspective, the US

781
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 13: is getting screwed by the existing state of trade barriers,

782
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 13: where they believe with some reason we can get into

783
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 13: why this is more complicated than they say, but that

784
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 13: other countries have far higher import duties on our exports

785
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 13: than we do on there. So that's clearly a goal,

786
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 13: I think. But there's also the goal of can we

787
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 13: raise revenue because we know that the Republicans are trying

788
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 13: to pass four trillion dollars in tax cuts, and Trump

789
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 13: is not wrong that if you impose massive taxes on

790
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 13: every import coming to the US, even though it would

791
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 13: be devastating for a lot of poor Americans who depend

792
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 13: on imports for cheap food and other necessities, it could

793
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 13: raise a lot of money. Now, these two things don't

794
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 13: mesh together. Either the tariffs are a vehicle to lower

795
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 13: import duties, in which case you reach a deal where

796
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 13: the US tariffs come off, or there are a tool

797
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 13: to raise lots of revenue to pay for the tax

798
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 13: cuts and in which case they stay on. It cannot

799
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 13: be both, and so be as generous as I can

800
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 13: be as possible to Trump.

801
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 5: There is just an incompatibility here. Maybe what he's thinking.

802
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 13: Is if I if I do this and it doesn't work,

803
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 13: at least we get the revenue. And if I do

804
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 13: this and then they lower the trade barriers on our exports,

805
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 13: I'll take that win instead. That's the most reasonable assumption,

806
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 13: I think you could possibly make being as generous as

807
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 13: possible to the president for all the reasons you're alluding to, Crystal.

808
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,800
Speaker 13: There's there's been a lot of questions about how, even

809
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 13: with the president's own goal, this doesn't make make sense

810
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 13: because right like he says twenty five percent tariff on Mexico,

811
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 13: let's say on all goods, and.

812
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 5: Then like three hours later it's like, no, it's not on,

813
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 5: it's off. It's all in and solah blah blah blah,

814
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 5: And that is incompatible with this idea of we're gonna

815
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: impose these tariffs to bring domestic manufacturing and production and

816
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 5: factories back to the US.

817
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 13: I've talked to a number of business leaders executive CEOs

818
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 13: in the last few days so have said, look like

819
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 13: if Trump just said, like this is the tariff policy,

820
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 13: even if we didn't like it, even if we thought

821
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 13: it was too high, we could like do something around it.

822
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 5: But it's not just that they don't know if the

823
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 5: tariffs are it come off. They also don't know if

824
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 5: the tariffs are going.

825
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 13: To stay on. So the uncertain team both directions is crippling.

826
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 13: And I know that was a rambling answer, but I

827
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 13: hope hopefully give you some sense of where I'm seeing this.

828
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's actually so so helpful. And let's run through

829
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 3: a couple of elements that relate to what Jeff just said.

830
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: If we put the CNBC Terror Street on the screen,

831
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 3: this is B two, This is about just what happened yesterday.

832
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 3: The headline is sort of amusing. Trump will not in

833
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: post fifty percent Canadian steel aluminum tariffs tomorrow, says top

834
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 3: trade advisor. And this is a quote from Peter Navarro

835
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: to CNBC yesterday afternoon, and CNBC Roads writes quote. The

836
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 3: reversal came six hours after Trump announced his plan to

837
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 3: double import duties on the Canadian medals in response to

838
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: Ontario's decision to slap a twenty five percent tax on

839
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: electricity exports to the US. And then if we put

840
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: B three up on the screen, this is news about

841
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: more news about Canada. Canada files to sell usd bonds

842
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 3: size undisclosed. That's again from yesterday. And finally I want

843
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: to at this true social post from Trump on the screen,

844
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: which is B four, which sees Trump asking why would

845
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: our country allow another country to supply us with electricity

846
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,439
Speaker 3: even for a small area who made these decisions and why?

847
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: And can you imagine Canada stooping so low as to

848
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 3: use electricity all caps that so affects the life of

849
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 3: innocent people as a bargaining chip and threat they will

850
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 3: pay a financial price for the so big that it

851
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 3: will be read about in history books for many years

852
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 3: to come. And I know Crystal wants to make a

853
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 3: point about some of the decisions in Gaza on that,

854
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 3: but before we do, Jeff, I want to get your

855
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 3: reaction to just how we see different things coming from

856
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 3: different people in the administration. The President is saying one thing,

857
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 3: Peter Navarro is then talking to CNBC and saying something,

858
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: there's this update that seems a country nict what's happening

859
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 3: according to the President. So I wonder just your sense

860
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: from people who work on these issues in the White House,

861
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 3: is that intentional? I mean, is it intentionally haphazard? Because

862
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 3: that speaks to whether or not the uncertainty is itself intentional.

863
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 3: And you know, you just kind of got into whether

864
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: that would make sense for the end goal of the

865
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: Trump administration. But I'm wondering, you know, if it seems

866
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 3: like they are purposefully causing confusion or if there's genuinely

867
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 3: a lot of confusion, and there's nothing strategic about it.

868
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 13: I mean, I think if there is intentional confusion, it's

869
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 13: going on between Trump's ears, like it's it's not something

870
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 13: that the advisors, according to the people I've talked to,

871
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 13: like the people close to Trump, are not excited about

872
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 13: looking like, you know, fools might be an overstatement, but

873
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 13: looking uninformed on national television almost every day, having their

874
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 13: exact utterances immediately contradicted by their boss, whose views they're

875
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 13: supposed to be reflecting. But I think, as we're seeing

876
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 13: not just here but across you know, almost every issue,

877
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 13: Trump is like, you know, I won twice. The media

878
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 13: hit me with everything, They tried to put me in

879
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 13: jail or whatever, you know, the Democrats, whatever conspiracy theories

880
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 13: he has about that. And so he's unabout and he's

881
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 13: doing what he wants to do. And he seems, you know,

882
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 13: wholly unperturbed by the stock market, his approval ratings, his

883
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 13: own advisors, America's closest allies, the fate of the American

884
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 13: economy at large, like none of these things seem to

885
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 13: be really enough to move him. And that leaves us

886
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 13: in a kind of a scary place.

887
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I wanted to get your opinion, Jeff,

888
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 2: on whether that piece of information about Canada doing a

889
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 2: sale of US bonds, which is not an unusual thing

890
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: to do, but I you know, a lot of people

891
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 2: kind of were interested in the fact that that was happening.

892
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 2: And it's also comes with the Liberals in Canada just

893
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 2: elected a new leaders, the new Prime Minister, Mark Karney,

894
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 2: who's himself a former central banker both of Canada and

895
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: actually of England as Brexit was going on. So I

896
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: wonder if you could reflect a little bit just specifically

897
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: on that development and more broad on having Mark Kearney

898
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: in charge in Canada now and how that could impact

899
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: the way that they respond.

900
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 13: Well, I mean, I actually hadn't seen that until you

901
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 13: showed it. I think it reflects a really interesting question though,

902
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 13: which is is the sort of Trump fuselade, all out

903
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 13: attack on all of our global trading partners going to

904
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 13: change the way the world views the safety and security

905
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 13: of the US dollar as the world sort of reserve

906
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 13: currency and sort of you know, the way that treasuries

907
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 13: over the last forty fifty years have served as the backstop,

908
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 13: the trusted sort of foundation of the global financial system,

909
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 13: and it is not inconceivable at all to me. And

910
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 13: I don't know what the problemance of that tweet that

911
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 13: I should figure out that out, but I didn't.

912
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 4: Check it out that it was it was accurate. Yeah,

913
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 4: I know, but it is accurate.

914
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 13: My early point there is that.

915
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 5: The US has an enormous fiscal imbalance relative to most countries,

916
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 5: and that deficit allows us to fund social services, you know,

917
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 5: not in the way that the Nordics do, but greater

918
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 5: than our very very very low tax.

919
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 13: Revenue allow us to do. And the US is able

920
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 13: to do that because we are able to lend money

921
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 13: on global capital markets pretty cheaply, like, much more cheaply

922
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 13: than any other comparable country in the entire world. We

923
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 13: have sort of this golden goose that allows us to

924
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 13: print money. And we can debate whether that money is

925
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 13: used well, but it has been a foundational feature of

926
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 13: the American economy for thirty four years and the idea

927
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 13: that that is at risk now is a very scary

928
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 13: thing because other countries, as it could follow suit and

929
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 13: not buying US debt, which could cause sort of the

930
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 13: premiums that the US has to offer on its debt

931
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 13: to get investors to buy it to spike, and that

932
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 13: would be something that would trigger a rise and borrowing

933
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 13: costs that could be to a crisis for the US

934
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 13: government very quickly. And it's something that we're shocking because

935
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 13: it's the vulnerability as Trump sort of lashes out against

936
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 13: the whole world simultaneously. Right now.

937
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, because one of the theories that I've seen is

938
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 2: that you know, normally in times of instability, there's a

939
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: flight too into US bonds, Like that's sort of like

940
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 2: you know, the bedrock gold standard of stability as we're

941
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: still sort of the global hedgebon And so when Canada,

942
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 2: which now you know Mark Karney against central banker as

943
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: their leader, like, you know, we're actually going to do

944
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 2: the opposite of that, We're going to sell We're going

945
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 2: to take at this moment to sell US bonds. It's

946
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 2: very possible people are reading too much into it, but

947
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 2: it was an indication to me of like, this may

948
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 2: not go the way that you think it's going to

949
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: because the country gets the world gets to say in

950
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 2: how they respond as well. And you know, we are

951
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: in this moment where there's a geopolitical rebalancing and you know,

952
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 2: I think some of the moves to the Trump administration

953
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: certainly are aggressively trying to reshape that geo political balance

954
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 2: in the way that they want it to appear. And

955
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 2: so that's why I thought that that was that that

956
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: was really noteworthy, And like you said, a potential warning sign.

957
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: I mean, what do we mostly use that surplus and

958
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: that incredible quote unquote Golden Goose to do. It's to

959
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: have a gigantic military and then to you know, have

960
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 2: the social safety of programs like Medicare and Social Security

961
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: and Medicaid that are really important to people. And I

962
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: do think that is one of the profound risks of

963
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 2: this moment. That and just you know, the dedollarrization, like

964
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: moving away from the dollars the global reserve currency.

965
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 3: There's a great article in Compact. I don't know if

966
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: either of you read it, basically about the emergent ideological

967
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: belief among like the Howard Latinx, who's by the way,

968
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 3: a big backer of stable coin, that Trump's approach to

969
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: crypto is now actually he's been sort of converted to

970
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: the ideological school that crypto is something that boosts the

971
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 3: dollar because stable coin is pinned one one to the

972
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: US dollar. Therefore, all of this is actually sort of

973
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: galaxy brain helpful to the United States. I don't know, Jeff, Like,

974
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 3: do you what do you make of everything that crystal.

975
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 13: Check the price of bitcoin?

976
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah?

977
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean that tweet you put up is incredible, right,

978
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 5: Like why would we trust the Canadians to sell us electricity?

979
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 5: And I don't know, I mean the twenty twenty four

980
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 5: presidential election, like I covered it, it was not about

981
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:48,959
Speaker 5: animist towards Canada. Trump was not running on on destroying

982
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 5: Ontario and encouraging Americans to boo the Canadian national anthem

983
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 5: at hockey games Like this is like, I think fundamentally weird.

984
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 5: I think this is not what Trump campaigned on at all.

985
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 5: And the fact that he seems to think or believe

986
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 5: or at least be willing to try to get Americans

987
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 5: psyched to like want to fight Canada?

988
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,959
Speaker 13: Is that a winning message for Republicans in twenty twenty six?

989
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,760
Speaker 13: Is that? Like, is there a ground swell of people

990
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 13: throughout the country who are like, have always hated Canada

991
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 13: and like, yeah, why why do we let them sell

992
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 13: us electricity? Like it's it's it's bizarre. Isn't it, Like,

993
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,399
Speaker 13: I hope I'm not overstepping that, but like, where does

994
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 13: this even come from? This animus towards Canada. There are

995
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 13: some legitimate debates about various tariff that they have on

996
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 13: our dairy or whatever, but the extrapolation of that, so

997
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 13: We're going to destroy the Canadian economy and take their

998
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 13: land is like, like, what are we even talking about here?

999
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 13: It's like reminds me of playing like a video game

1000
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 13: or something, or he's just trying to expand the board.

1001
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: It's also incoherent because it's like, we can't stand Canada.

1002
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 3: Canada is a terrible country, but also we want it

1003
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 3: give us the fifty first state, right Crystal, Speaking of

1004
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: that tweet we wanted to put B five up on

1005
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 3: the screen or that truth Social post, I should say,

1006
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 3: this is from the Times Israel turns off gas electricity

1007
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 3: to force hostage release, which I think, as you were saying,

1008
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 3: is quite an interesting juxtaposition with the truth Social post

1009
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 3: of Donald Trump saying, can you imagine Canada' stooping so

1010
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,319
Speaker 3: low as to use electricity that so affects the lives

1011
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 3: of innocent people as a bargaining trip and a threat?

1012
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I mean, you know, I'm making the obvious

1013
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: just point about hypocrisy here and how there are no

1014
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: principles involved, right, It's all just whatever Trump wants to

1015
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: do in the moment. But I mean there's a couple

1016
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 2: things to pick up on on your point, Jeff is, like,

1017
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 2: I guess one way to read Trump's animals towards Canada is,

1018
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 2: you know, he's long hated Trudeau. Trudeau's this kind of

1019
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: like Obama like figure. Now the Liberals are led by

1020
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 2: this other like sort of you know, liberal technocrat hype.

1021
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,240
Speaker 2: He hates these certain European leaders also that he feels

1022
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: like are part of this democratic liberal order that look

1023
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 2: down their nose at him. So one of the ways

1024
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: to read this is just like this sort of like

1025
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 2: personal grievance and animus, which does seem to be an

1026
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 2: animating force for Trump. But then the other way to

1027
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 2: read it is in this broader context of you know,

1028
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: he really is doing this sort of like throwback colonial

1029
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: or at least you know, brazen empire building territory acquisition

1030
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: plan if you take seriously, we want to make Canada

1031
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 2: the fifty first date, or at least we want to

1032
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 2: change the boundaries. We want Greenland, we want Panama, we

1033
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,040
Speaker 2: want Gaza. We're just going to go and take the

1034
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: things that we want. We're going to go back to

1035
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: the Monroe doctrine where we're going to throw our weight around.

1036
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 2: This is our backyard, et cetera. So you know, and

1037
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 2: maybe it's some of both, but that's kind of how

1038
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: I read it, is that this is a part and

1039
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: part soul with that return to an older, stire style

1040
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 2: of direct imperialism that isn't like the usaid We're going

1041
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 2: to use our soft power or the China Chinese model

1042
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:12,440
Speaker 2: of like the Belton Road initiative.

1043
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 4: It's like, no, We're actually going to.

1044
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: Take your land and mine your minerals and let our

1045
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 2: oligarchs like buy up the pieces of your country that

1046
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 2: are going to be valuable to them.

1047
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 13: That's such a great point, Crystal. The way I think

1048
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 13: about it is that it's like simultaneously contingent and structural.

1049
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 13: Like I think about this a lot in the context

1050
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 13: of sort of what Mosque is doing in the government,

1051
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 13: because on the one hand, it's clearly true that the

1052
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 13: Trump movement and Trump personally personifies an ideological sort of

1053
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 13: attack on the non partisan career civil service that Republicans

1054
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 13: have come to view with great deal of suspicion nanimous

1055
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 13: over the last you know, many years. That is a

1056
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 13: structural sort of force in American politics which Trump is

1057
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 13: in the process of codifying and implementing. At the same time,

1058
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 13: Musk is sort of just one guy who, by all

1059
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 13: sorts of somewhat random reasons, ended up being a very

1060
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 13: sort of close ally of this president specifically, and through

1061
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 13: what certainly appears to be sort of contingent factors of

1062
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 13: place and time and what's going through one guy's head,

1063
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,080
Speaker 13: ended up being put in charge of this effort that

1064
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 13: he's now sort of distinctively supercharged with his own fingerprints

1065
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 13: in a way that is genuinely different, I think than

1066
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 13: what the standard bog Republican would have done to the

1067
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 13: federal government in a second Trump term anyway, right, Like,

1068
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 13: Musk is doing that differently than he would have than

1069
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 13: Trump would have if Musk had never come around. And so, yeah,

1070
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 13: I think you're describing it well where it's simultaneously these

1071
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 13: underlying structural factors that may even supersede Trump in many ways.

1072
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 13: Like there was an interesting piece over the weekend by

1073
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 13: a conservative writer whose name, and forgetting sort of about

1074
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 13: how we might be in this sort of we had

1075
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 13: this post World War two era where our entire politics

1076
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 13: was defined by sort of this liberal international order viewed

1077
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 13: as with its with its sort of most important goal

1078
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 13: to avoid the sort of territorial acquisitiveness that Hitler defined.

1079
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 13: I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler. I'm just saying that

1080
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 13: that the world order that was built after World War

1081
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 13: Two seems to be crumbling.

1082
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 5: And maybe that's not even a Trump specific or Trump

1083
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 5: dependent phenomenon, but the fact that Trump and is executing it,

1084
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 5: it has given it sort of a Trump distinctive.

1085
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 13: And as to your point about you know, individual the

1086
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 13: Trump distinctive, you know, flavor and approach.

1087
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: That's so interesting. Jeff, thank you for coming on to

1088
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 3: break this down. It was like just you must have

1089
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 3: been like just on a swivel all day yesterday, your

1090
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: reporting it was such a roller coaster. So thank you

1091
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 3: for helping the rest of us catch up to speed.

1092
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 13: No thanks, guys, I appreciate it, Ja, thank you.

1093
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 3: News broke late yesterday from Front of the Show Shelby

1094
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: Talcot of Semaphore that the Education Department had taken its

1095
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 3: first giant leap towards totally shuddering during the Trump administration.

1096
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 3: We can put C one up on the screen, shall

1097
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 3: be reported per person familiar. A quote reduction enforced notices

1098
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 3: for the Education Department are expected to go out today

1099
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 3: at six pm. Nearly half of the department is expected

1100
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 3: to be eliminated. Now if we put C two B

1101
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 3: up on the screen. This came shortly after that scoop

1102
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 3: from Shelby she got the report. She confirmed the report

1103
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 3: that these notices had gone out. All Education Department offices

1104
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: in DC will be closed tomorrow no reason beyond quote

1105
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: for security reasons, and workers were instructed to leave by

1106
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 3: six pm two day shall be reported, per a source.

1107
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: She also later reported that the Education Department has confirmed

1108
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: a quote reduction in force that will impact nearly fifty

1109
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 3: percent of its workforce. Staffers will be placed on administrative

1110
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 3: leave beginning March twenty first. So it's not as though

1111
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 3: the educate Education Department is half as full today this

1112
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 3: morning as people are going into the office. It's that

1113
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 3: they are starting to scale down over the course of

1114
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 3: the next couple of weeks. And that is again a

1115
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 3: fifty fifty percent reduction of force at the Department of

1116
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 3: Education and Krystal, like you said earlier in the show,

1117
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 3: all of these blocks could basically have been in a block.

1118
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 3: This is, you know, obviously very significant news and I

1119
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 3: want to get your reaction to this clip. Of Education

1120
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 3: secretary recently confirmed Linda McMahon on Laura Ingram Show last night,

1121
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 3: confirming again this is the first step on the road

1122
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 3: to total shutdown. Let's roll this next element.

1123
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 8: First, welcome to the show, because you haven't been on

1124
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 8: in studio with me before.

1125
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 4: Now, is this the first step on the.

1126
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 3: Road to a total shutdown?

1127
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 12: Yes, actually it is, because that was the president's mandate.

1128
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 12: This directive to me clearly is to shut down the

1129
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 12: Department of Education, which we know we'll have to work

1130
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 12: with Congress, you know, to get that accomplished. But what

1131
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 12: we did today was to take the first step of

1132
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 12: eliminating what I think is bureaucratic bloat. And that's not

1133
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 12: to say that a lot of the folks, you know,

1134
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:45,880
Speaker 12: it's a humanitarian thing too. A lot of the folks

1135
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 12: that are there, you know, they're out of a job.

1136
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 12: But we wanted to make sure that we kept all

1137
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 12: of the right people and the good people to make

1138
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 12: sure that the outward facing programs, the grants, the appropriations

1139
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 12: that come from Congress, all of that are being met

1140
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 12: and none of that's going to fall through the cracks.

1141
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 3: So there it is, Crystal. It's happening. To quote the

1142
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: Ron Paul meme.

1143
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's happening so long as federal courts

1144
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: don't intervene and block. I mean, certainly you can't dismantle

1145
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,920
Speaker 2: the entire Education Department without an Act of Congress, and

1146
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 2: even these massive cuts I think will certainly face court challenges.

1147
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 2: But you know, to zoom out here and Emily you

1148
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 2: can speak to this as well. You know, this is

1149
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 2: a long time conservative movement priority.

1150
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 4: I think really.

1151
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 2: Going back to the era of you know, the federal

1152
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 2: government being directly involved in desegregating schools and the fight's

1153
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 2: over bussing. You know, the Department of Education has sort

1154
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: of had a target on its back for much of

1155
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: its history from the right because of those interventions, which,

1156
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: by the way, you know, the times when the federal

1157
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 2: government has been most involved in public school education are

1158
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: actually some of the times when we've seen some of

1159
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: the best results, especially in terms of black students and

1160
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,280
Speaker 2: white students. Test scores being more equivalent. You know, back

1161
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 2: in the seventies in particular, when the federal government was

1162
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 2: super involved, you saw massive increases in terms of the

1163
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 2: scores of black test students. You've seen more controversially and

1164
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 2: the George B. A. Bush era, the Republican parties sort

1165
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 2: of like laid down their arms against the Department of Education,

1166
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: took a different tack, decided to be aggressive in terms

1167
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 2: of pushing sort of like, you know, increased test standards.

1168
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 2: This was the era of the bipartisan no child left behind.

1169
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 2: Obama continued somewhat in that direction. Then there was a

1170
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 2: bit of a backlash against you know, oh, we're testing

1171
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: students too much.

1172
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 4: We need to pull back.

1173
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: And so it's interesting because right now, while the Department

1174
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 2: of Education is being you know, attacked and gutted in

1175
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 2: this way, it's one of the times when it's been

1176
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 2: less involved in local public school life than it has

1177
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 2: been at different parts of its history. I think the

1178
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: other way to look at this, and then we can

1179
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 2: get into more specifically, like what is the Department of

1180
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 2: Education even do? What does most of its funding and

1181
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 2: personnel go towards? But you know, conservatives have also long

1182
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 2: had a political project to push students away from public

1183
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 2: schools towards private schools, towards charter schools, you know, towards

1184
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: voucher systems.

1185
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 4: Towards homeschooling.

1186
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 2: And I certainly think that the energy around that was

1187
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: increased significantly by the you know, local reactions and the

1188
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 2: federal reaction, but specifically the local reactions to COVID and

1189
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 2: all the school shut downs and you know, all of

1190
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 2: the conversation about book bannings and all of those sorts

1191
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 2: of things. So I think this is you know, right

1192
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 2: in line with that right in Project twenty twenty five,

1193
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: long time conservative ideological project. And before I get into

1194
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 2: sort of like the categories of what the Education Department

1195
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: actually does, it just love to for you to, you know,

1196
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,479
Speaker 2: reflect as a conservative, how you would situate these moves

1197
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: within the Department of Education.

1198
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and your point about the history of the Education

1199
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 3: Department is really important because I think that was Carter

1200
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine. Under the Carter administration, I think

1201
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 3: the Education Department comes in and Reagan campaigns, I'm getting

1202
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 3: rid of the Education Department. So it's kind of interesting

1203
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 3: because I feel like actually a lot of conservatives would say,

1204
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 3: we want to go back to the education system of

1205
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies, before so much of this became centralized

1206
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 3: in Washington, DC. And this is of all of the

1207
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 3: departments that the right wants to eliminate in this like

1208
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 3: Doge fantasy, this is the one where I think they

1209
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 3: have the most particular plan as to how to do it.

1210
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 3: So the explanation would be a lot of the things

1211
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 3: that the Education Department does and we're going to see

1212
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 3: this in the next element, will still happen. They will

1213
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 3: just be managed on the state level. Same thing with

1214
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 3: so like civil rights, for example, they want to meld

1215
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 3: that into the Justice Department. So it's not as though

1216
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 3: some of these things won't continue to happen. It's just

1217
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: that they'll be administered on the state level. But and

1218
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 3: this is a huge butt that obviously is on the

1219
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 3: off ramp being executed competently and efficiently. To borrow the

1220
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 3: phrase from Doge, So, I think one way to see

1221
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 3: this is as though you're doing like a like a

1222
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 3: life saving surgery and you're like, Okay, I think this

1223
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: the surgery has to happen. That doesn't mean there isn't

1224
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 3: a significant there's a significant chance that it could go

1225
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 3: very wrong if you, you know, take some incorrect steps.

1226
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 3: I say that as someone as a conservative who thinks

1227
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 3: a lot of this should probably go back to the States.

1228
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 3: I think the plan to have some of the civil

1229
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 3: rights stuff under the Department of Justice, which is perfectly equipped,

1230
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 3: uh to handle it. I think that's all great, But

1231
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 3: if you don't handle the surgery in a competent way,

1232
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 3: then you're in big trouble. You can make the situation,

1233
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 3: you can essentially make the situation even worse to you know,

1234
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 3: continue playing out that metaphor. So we could go ahead

1235
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 3: and put this up on the screen. CEE four Chryst.

1236
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 3: So this is a chart that you hold of the

1237
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 3: largest spending categories in the Department of Education. So you

1238
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 3: see a huge chunk of that is federal student aid,

1239
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 3: so loans and peligrants K through twelve education comes in

1240
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 3: at second, and then early childhood education a very distant

1241
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,560
Speaker 3: third career in technical education. Civil rights and school safety

1242
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: are the lowest category. So, Crystal, can you talk to

1243
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 3: us a little bit about how you see the future

1244
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 3: of the Education Department in the context of what that

1245
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: spending looks like as of right now.

1246
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean I think there again, I think

1247
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: it's important to keep the broader ideological goals in mind,

1248
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 2: which is number one. I mean, this also fits with

1249
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 2: the later block about Makmu Khalil, in that there is

1250
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 2: an ideological war also against higher education, you know, and

1251
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 2: they're using this sort of like pro Palestine movement as

1252
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: a cudgel to hobble universities. And you know, sixty universities

1253
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 2: have received letters. So they love the civil Rights division

1254
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: of the Education Department when they're weaponizing it to hurt

1255
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 2: universities and to you know, go after students who were

1256
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 2: part of the pro Palestine movement. But so, you know,

1257
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 2: that's part of the ideological project, is like this sense

1258
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 2: of oh, universities are churning out all of these like

1259
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 2: liberal lefties. We don't like that, so we want to

1260
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 2: hurt these universities. We'll use whatever pretext we can. And

1261
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 2: so the efforts to trump has already rolled back some

1262
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 2: of the student loan relief that has been put into

1263
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,439
Speaker 2: place previously, and certainly this you can see from that chart.

1264
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 2: You know, the number one category of spending is actually

1265
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 2: things like pelgrants, which make college more affordable. For poor students.

1266
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 2: I think that's a part of the priority. And then

1267
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: I think the other priority is, Listen, we're just not

1268
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 2: really big on public education in general. We think kid

1269
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: should be homeschooled, we think they should have vouchers and

1270
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: go to private schools, we think they should go to

1271
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 2: charter schools, et cetera. And so there's been a, you know,

1272
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 2: a long time also attack on the public education system.

1273
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 2: I will say, you know, there's some recent historical warnings

1274
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 2: against aggressively attacking the public school system, in particular the

1275
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen teacher strike wave, which was mostly concentrated in

1276
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 2: red states. And there's a good reason for that. It's because,

1277
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, those states were more rural, and the more

1278
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 2: rural the area, the more central the public school is

1279
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 2: to the community. You know, these are first of all,

1280
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 2: that the teachers and the administrators will be some of

1281
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 2: the most important people in the community. It will be

1282
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 2: one of the most important centers of community. I don't

1283
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 2: remember if it was you or Ryan who was talking

1284
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 2: about the fact that like As Church has declined as

1285
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: the pillary community. And again, this is part of what

1286
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 2: the right doesn't like about the school As Church has declined.

1287
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 2: School has become like these sort of central meeting place

1288
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 2: and gathering point for community and way to be active

1289
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 2: and involved in community. And so if you are attacking

1290
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 2: that and people feel like this really important pillar is

1291
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 2: being you know, is being stripped back as being is

1292
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 2: really being intact by the federal government, there is going

1293
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 2: to be a negative reaction to that, and not just

1294
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 2: from you know, liberals and cities. In fact, you know,

1295
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 2: there'll be some of the people who suffer the least

1296
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 2: from this because they have the most options in terms

1297
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: of other school choices available to them. You know, in

1298
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 2: a small town, all you've got is the public school,

1299
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 2: that's it, or homeschool, and for you know, if you're

1300
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 2: both parents are working, whatever, that's just not really a

1301
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 2: feasible option for you. So I do think there's a

1302
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 2: lot of political warnings here, but there is no doubt

1303
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 2: this is a long time conservative priority. It to your

1304
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: point Emily laid out in Project twenty twenty five, which

1305
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 2: Trump and Sistity had nothing to do with and didn't

1306
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 2: want anything.

1307
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 4: To do with, et cetera, et cetera.

1308
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 2: Of course, we all knew that was a lie the

1309
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 2: whole time, and now they're acting on that, and I

1310
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: think the only thing that could stop them is potentially

1311
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 2: a core decision that said, hey, like these funds have

1312
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 2: been appropriated, you have to spend them. And by the way,

1313
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: you can't just destroy an entire agency without going to Congress,

1314
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 2: since this is like a congressionally authorized agency, and you

1315
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 2: cannot just take the power of the purse for yourself

1316
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: health and do whatever you want like you're a king.

1317
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'd argue that the community focus, especially in

1318
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,360
Speaker 3: rural areas, is potentially an upside here in that you

1319
01:09:09,400 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 3: would have state governments who are more responsive to localized

1320
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 3: concerns or even like pared back to city level governments

1321
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 3: that are more responsive to localized concerns than the federal government.

1322
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 3: I think that's been a problem in different cases. But

1323
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,640
Speaker 3: to your point, and to the like return to the

1324
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,720
Speaker 3: surgery metaphor, you know that can that can obviously go

1325
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 3: wrong in ways that are politically disastrous for the administration.

1326
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 3: There's no question about that. And you flagged this. This

1327
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: is C five this political article about usai D and

1328
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 3: usai D is really the momentum or that's really where

1329
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 3: the right and the Trump administration is getting its momentum

1330
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 3: from still because they felt like they politically prosecuted that

1331
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: case successfully for closing usa i D. Now political is

1332
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 3: reporting that an official has told staff, quote, shred and

1333
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 3: burn your documents. That's the political headline. And so it

1334
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 3: is sort of interesting that the usaa D case is

1335
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 3: seen as this sort of positive case study for how

1336
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:20,160
Speaker 3: these political attempts to shut down institutions that have existed

1337
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:22,479
Speaker 3: for a long time that Americans are sort of used to,

1338
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 3: even if they don't think about them very often. When USAAD,

1339
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 3: for example, Elon must said, well, we made the mistake

1340
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 3: with Abola funding and people are still upset about how

1341
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 3: PETFAR was handled. So these things are enormously fragile, and

1342
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 3: I think that was part of the reason for Project

1343
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five. Interestingly enough, was that they sort of

1344
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 3: didn't want haphazard approaches to difficult questions. They wanted to

1345
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:49,560
Speaker 3: use what was seen as a once inner generation opportunity

1346
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 3: with political political capital and will to start enacting these

1347
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,800
Speaker 3: conservative fantasy lists like Christmas lists wish items, and they

1348
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 3: wanted it to be done carefully and to look at

1349
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 3: USAID as an example. You know, it does it makes

1350
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: you wonder what will come out of pairing back the

1351
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 3: Department of Education that will create political obstacles to going

1352
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 3: about the entire project. I mean, I obviously think USAID

1353
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:22,840
Speaker 3: should be dramatically scaled back and should be a better

1354
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 3: run organization. And also you know that they shouldn't have

1355
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,840
Speaker 3: been quite as careless with some of the funding as

1356
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 3: they were. But then when you're talking about the Education Department,

1357
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,120
Speaker 3: I think the stakes are even higher because it's much

1358
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 3: much closer to home for your average voter, your average American.

1359
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, the Education Department in addition to

1360
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 2: funding things like pel grants, which really important for you know,

1361
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,879
Speaker 2: lower income students to be able to go to college.

1362
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,680
Speaker 2: In terms of the local public school system, they're primarily

1363
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 2: involved number one and poor school districts where you have

1364
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 2: a disproportionate number of kids who are eligible for like

1365
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 2: free introduced lunch. So if you meet this designation, you

1366
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: get additional funding for from the federal government. You know,

1367
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 2: that's really significant in states, Actually it's most significant if

1368
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 2: you look by the numbers.

1369
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 4: It's more significant red states and blue states.

1370
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 2: A lot of southern states where this Title one funding

1371
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 2: is really important. The other place where federal government funding

1372
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 2: becomes extremely important is for students with disabilities, and that's

1373
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 2: a wide range of those sorts of services that are

1374
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, public schools are required to be able to

1375
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: provide everything from you know, speech therapy to sort of

1376
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 2: more intensive interventions. And that funding also is you know,

1377
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 2: distributed from the federal government and obviously is really really

1378
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 2: critical to millions upon millions of families in this country.

1379
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 2: And I have kids who went through speech therapy and

1380
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 2: you know, have benefited from these programs, and many families

1381
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 2: across the country do. So when you start messing with

1382
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 2: those sorts of things, yeah, you're gonna you know, this

1383
01:12:58,040 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: is not politically popular.

1384
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 4: Like if you ask people.

1385
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 2: Should you spend more or less money on education, You're

1386
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 2: going to get in a resounding response, say seventy percent.

1387
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: That's say we should be spending more money actually on education,

1388
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 2: not less. And so, you know, if this could really

1389
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 2: be one of the things that touches communities and especially

1390
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 2: rural communities, especially in poor states you know, across the country,

1391
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 2: including many red states. I mean again, we saw with

1392
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,799
Speaker 2: the teacher strike wave that that was places like West Virginia,

1393
01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 2: places like Kentucky, places like Arizona, actually was another place.

1394
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 4: Oklahoma had a significant movement as well.

1395
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 2: These were a lot of red states where there was

1396
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 2: a huge backlash because the public school was important to them.

1397
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 4: So I think you're right, Emily.

1398
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 2: If it can be sold as like now your local

1399
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,240
Speaker 2: government is going to have more control and your funding

1400
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 2: is going to stay the same, maybe they can sell

1401
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 2: that politically. But if there starts to be a sense

1402
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 2: of like, oh, our schools are going to be under

1403
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 2: resource now because of this attack, I think that hits

1404
01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 2: very different than perhaps conservatives are expecting.

1405
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really interesting point. Chris. Well, let's move

1406
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 3: on to the big news out of Congress where the

1407
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 3: massive shutdown spending bill, or the spending bill to avert

1408
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 3: the shutdown, I should say, passed last night by a

1409
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:20,519
Speaker 3: thin margin. Well, continuing the theme of the show, every

1410
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 3: block is an a block today, and certainly one of

1411
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,680
Speaker 3: those significant stories was the House of Representatives managing to

1412
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 3: pass a spending bill, one of those famous continuing resolutions.

1413
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 3: Infamous actually, I should say, by a margin of two

1414
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:37,760
Speaker 3: seventeen to two thirteen. They pulled one Democrat over and

1415
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,640
Speaker 3: one Republican was a no vote. I will let you

1416
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 3: guess who it was. It was Thomas Massey. You probably

1417
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,080
Speaker 3: you probably knew that though, because if you saw Sager

1418
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,559
Speaker 3: at the White House yesterday, he got in a question

1419
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 3: about some of the attacks from Chris Losavita, truan'sformer campaign manager,

1420
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 3: and Trump himself on Thomas Massey. This was before that

1421
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 3: Continuing Resolution actually ended up passing. Massey held firm he

1422
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 3: did not negotiate with Republican leadership. So let's take a

1423
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 3: listen to how the White House responded.

1424
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 7: President Trump came out today in a primary challenge against

1425
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 7: Congressman Thomas Massy. Congress and mass He's been a supporter

1426
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,719
Speaker 7: of dose, He's been a supporter of make America healthy again.

1427
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 7: What kind of message is this White House sending against

1428
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 7: a Congressman who's sticking out for principles that he's long

1429
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,679
Speaker 7: held in the Chamber and voting against Continuing Resolution and spending.

1430
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 6: I think the President has made it very clear that

1431
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 6: he believes it's critical for conservatives and Republicans and frankly

1432
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 6: all members of Congress to get behind this Continuing Resolution

1433
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 6: to keep the government funded. The President wants to continue

1434
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 6: the momentum that he has built over the last fifty

1435
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 6: one days in order to keep the government funded. We

1436
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 6: got to keep moving with these deportations. And he believes

1437
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 6: that everybody needs to get on board with this bill.

1438
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 3: Go everybody to not get on board with the bill,

1439
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 3: but almost everybody did. The question then is kicked to

1440
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:58,679
Speaker 3: the Senate, which has until Friday to avert a government shutdown.

1441
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 3: The deal here is to kick funding to September. Kick

1442
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 3: the funding battle to September. And what Donald Trump actually

1443
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 3: did was bring in members of the House Freedom Caucus

1444
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 3: like chip Roy to the early stages of this negotiation.

1445
01:16:13,479 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 3: And so Roy made the pitch to other Freedom Caucus members.

1446
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 3: And Massy isn't a Freedom Caucus member, He's just adjacent

1447
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 3: to the Freedom Caucus. It's all very confusing. But what

1448
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: chip Roy was arguing is that let Doge find all

1449
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 3: kinds of easy sort of budget vetos. You know, you

1450
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,000
Speaker 3: can just sort of start slashing all of this spending.

1451
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 3: Give Doze the space over the next several months to

1452
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 3: find cuts, and then you know, have this fight over

1453
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: adding to the national debt in September when there's more

1454
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 3: political capital. Because Doge will have found all of this,

1455
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 3: you will have avoided the shutdown. We'll give for The

1456
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 3: next element up on the screen. Jade Vance's message when

1457
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 3: he was he's become a big not entirely unexpected because

1458
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 3: he just came out of the Senate, but he's been

1459
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:04,960
Speaker 3: a big go between from the White House to Capitol Hill.

1460
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 3: And what he was saying is the House Republicans will

1461
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 3: take the blame if it comes to a shutdown. Sort

1462
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 3: of amusing because that's always been something the Freedom Caucus

1463
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 3: guys have said, sure, we would love to take the

1464
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:20,400
Speaker 3: blame for a shutdown, and it's now also what Democrats

1465
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:25,559
Speaker 3: are dealing with because they now have the ball in

1466
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 3: their court. You can put the next element up on

1467
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 3: the screen. This is Jake Sherman on the margin. We

1468
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 3: mentioned this earlier. I was two seventeen or two thirteen,

1469
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:36,600
Speaker 3: and Jared Golden, He's of Maine, was the only Democrat

1470
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 3: who voted yes. Thomas Massey obviously was the only Republican

1471
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: who voted no. So Crystal, now, this is maybe the

1472
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 3: first shutdown battle I can remember where it did. Really,

1473
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 3: I think it does really look to the public like

1474
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 3: the ball is in the Democrats court, and it's a

1475
01:17:55,439 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 3: fascinating dynamic because a lot of Republicans in their own

1476
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 3: resistance era to Obama and Biden have said there's political

1477
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,800
Speaker 3: capital in going to the brink of a shutdown or

1478
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 3: actually going through with a short shutdown itself. And now

1479
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 3: we're seeing some demands on that for Democrats to play

1480
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,320
Speaker 3: brinksmanship with a potential government shutdown.

1481
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1482
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 2: I mean the difference is, of course that Republicans hate

1483
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 2: government and Democrats in theory like government, so it creates

1484
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:28,640
Speaker 2: more ideological tensions for Democrats than it does for Republicans.

1485
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 2: But I can tell you the base of the Democratic Party, liberals, lefties, whoever,

1486
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 2: they want their leaders to push to the brink on this,

1487
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 2: and I'll tell you why. I mean, what you explained

1488
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 2: is exactly right. The Republicans are pitching this and I

1489
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 2: think accurately. So it's basically a free license for DOGE

1490
01:18:47,120 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 2: to do what it wants to do, and what Democrat

1491
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 2: outside of John Fetterman wants to, you know, wants to

1492
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,839
Speaker 2: give a green light to this slash and burn destruction

1493
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 2: of the federal government, including social security, including veterans affairs,

1494
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 2: including the Department of Education, etc. And so that's the

1495
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,759
Speaker 2: way hikeem Jeffries, who is again an incredibly weak leader,

1496
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 2: was able to hold together all of his caucacy for

1497
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,599
Speaker 2: Jared Golden is basically like, you vote for this, you

1498
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 2: are co signing Doge.

1499
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 4: That's what you're doing.

1500
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 2: And Democratic Party, you know, very united against Elon and

1501
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 2: the attacks on social security, the attacks on you know,

1502
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,799
Speaker 2: potential attacks on Medicare, Medicaid, etc. So Republicans are betting

1503
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: that because they did not even try to negotiate the

1504
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 2: CR with Democrats, they just negotiated amongst themselves. Their betting

1505
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 2: on Democrats blinking in the Senate. And they might, but

1506
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 2: I will say that Fetterman is the only one who

1507
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: has really come out indicated he'll vote for this.

1508
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 4: They need to get seven.

1509
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 2: Even some like more moderate members, people like Tim Kaine

1510
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 2: and Mark Warner have expressed hesitation, you know, at voting

1511
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 2: for this particular CR. And you know, and you know,

1512
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 2: maybe that's because they're from Virginia and that's a state

1513
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 2: that obviously there's lots of federal government workers, et cetera.

1514
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:12,639
Speaker 2: But that is kind of an indication of where more

1515
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 2: of the moderate members may be headed in the Senate.

1516
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 4: So you know, I don't know.

1517
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: Republicans, like I said, are thinking that Democrats because they're

1518
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,800
Speaker 2: committed to the government are going to go we need here,

1519
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 2: and that usually is a safe bet, but I'm not

1520
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 2: sure in this case.

1521
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 4: Schumer has played a pretty coy.

1522
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 2: You know, Jeffreys came out and was like, we're gonna

1523
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 2: whip no, and we talked about that previously. Schumer has

1524
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 2: said like, I'm gonna wait and see what happens in

1525
01:20:40,960 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 2: the House before I really weigh in here. Well, now

1526
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 2: we know what happened in the House, So the ball

1527
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:48,080
Speaker 2: is in a sense in Senate Democrats court. That being said,

1528
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 2: I think Jade Vance is one hundred percent correct that

1529
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,920
Speaker 2: if the government shuts down, it's going to be blamed

1530
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 2: on Republicans because Republicans control everything, So like, who else

1531
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 2: are you gonna blame? When Republicans are in control of

1532
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 2: the House, the Senate, and the White House.

1533
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 3: Less Democrats really lean into owning the blame. And this

1534
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 3: is something that I think the media often gets wrong

1535
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:09,880
Speaker 3: with shutdown politics is conflating goals for the base with

1536
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 3: goals for the broader public. And the broader public does

1537
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 3: not like shutdowns. They're never excited about a shutdown. It

1538
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,560
Speaker 3: feels like chaos, and it feels sort of reckless and childish.

1539
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, the Republican base, because this

1540
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 3: hasn't really come up much for the Democratic base, but

1541
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 3: I think it's true of both bases. They do like

1542
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 3: shut down politics. They find it to be actually like

1543
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 3: invigorating to everything you just said, Crystal, is like showing

1544
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 3: a damn spine and using the leverage that you have,

1545
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:41,639
Speaker 3: And in this case, Democrats have a significant amount of leverage.

1546
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 3: So what we might end up seeing is one of

1547
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 3: those really short shutdowns over the weekend. Actually it could

1548
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 3: be something that is very very temporary, and Democrats lean

1549
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 3: in rally the base and say we're not opening back

1550
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 3: up the government until we get this, and they get

1551
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 3: part of it and can claim a partial victory with

1552
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 3: their own base, who desperately wants them to show a

1553
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 3: spine and showing up at town halls, is showing up

1554
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 3: at events with people like Chris Murphy, for example, is

1555
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 3: protesting at Tesla dealerships. So the shutdown lessons for Republicans

1556
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 3: have been that's always a shot in the arm with

1557
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:18,080
Speaker 3: the base and Democrats. Now Rand Paul is not voting yes,

1558
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 3: so that's where the seven number comes from. Democrats. Democrats

1559
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 3: have a real opportunity to learn from a lesson Republicans

1560
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,120
Speaker 3: have taken over the last ten or so years about

1561
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 3: shutdown politics. I am super curious to see how this proceeds.

1562
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1563
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 2: Well, and the last thing I'll say about this is

1564
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 2: part of what is informed Republican approach to shutdown politics

1565
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 2: is that they've been more fearful of primary challenges from

1566
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 2: their right then. You know, most of these members, including

1567
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 2: most Senators, are in you know, relatively like safe red

1568
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 2: or blue district slash states, and so they're constantly looking

1569
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 2: over their shoulder at like, who's the you know, more

1570
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 2: radical or more trumpy or more whatever person who could

1571
01:23:03,640 --> 01:23:05,920
Speaker 2: come out of the woodwork and challenge me from the right.

1572
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 2: Democrats have not had as much of that same dynamic. Obviously,

1573
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,080
Speaker 2: there was some you know, high profile justice Democrats wins

1574
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 2: AOC taking out Joe Crowley, but by and large, they

1575
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,320
Speaker 2: haven't really felt like they are threatened significantly from their left,

1576
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 2: and that is.

1577
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:25,439
Speaker 4: What could be changing now.

1578
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 2: I don't think that they've adjusted their politics to reckon

1579
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: with the fact that it's no longer just like you know,

1580
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 2: progressives and lefties who are critical of Democratic leadership that

1581
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 2: this is the mainstream liberal democratic normy DEM voter position

1582
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 2: is to be disgusted with Democratic leadership and their total

1583
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 2: lack of fight. I don't think that they've really like

1584
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:49,000
Speaker 2: incorporated that into their view of the world. They still

1585
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 2: see it as this like, you know, for ingennoying group

1586
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: that they can just feel free to disregard as evidence

1587
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 2: by the way that some of these quote unquote leaders have.

1588
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 4: Approached this particular era.

1589
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:02,640
Speaker 2: But I do think that that reality has changed significantly

1590
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:05,640
Speaker 2: and should change their calculus. Whether it does or not

1591
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: is another matter. Now, I will say a bunch of

1592
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:09,880
Speaker 2: these people, I mean all of them, are having their

1593
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 2: offices flooded with calls from the liberal base that wants

1594
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 2: them to fight, wants them to challenge Trump and Elon

1595
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 2: more aggressively. You know, any of them that have done

1596
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 2: town halls. It's not just Bernie who is getting huge crowds.

1597
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:27,200
Speaker 2: Any politician who shows up are garnering huge crowds to

1598
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 2: come and either support them or yell at them, or

1599
01:24:29,200 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 2: encourage them on the Democratic Party side to put up

1600
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 2: more of a fight. So they're certainly receiving that message.

1601
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 2: Whether or not they're going to adjust their approach to

1602
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 2: reflect that energy among the Democratic base is an open question.

1603
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 3: So risk averse, it really is the open going like

1604
01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:48,680
Speaker 3: this to me is maybe a litmus test for Democrats

1605
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 3: in this new wilderness era that they're in after Trump

1606
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 3: one post law fair twenty twenty loss. You know it,

1607
01:24:56,960 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 3: can Democrats finally be forced into a a less risk

1608
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,599
Speaker 3: averst position. The last thing I wanted to mention Crystal

1609
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:08,640
Speaker 3: is the step by step This is Bradley J of

1610
01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 3: Breitbart kind of charted this out after chip Roy was

1611
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 3: talking to Steve Bannon. He said, the plan really is

1612
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:17,559
Speaker 3: to pass the clean cr which they did, elon continues

1613
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:20,879
Speaker 3: finding waste, fraud and abuse. Three russ vote, will formulate

1614
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 3: those findings into a plan, and then four Trump will

1615
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 3: use the impoundment power to enact savings. So their new

1616
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 3: theory of the impoundment it's not new theory, but the

1617
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 3: unitary executive theory that they are completely enacting and testing

1618
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 3: in the courts right now about impoundment and the president's

1619
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 3: ability to just say we're not spending this congressionally appropriated

1620
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,720
Speaker 3: money is was a huge, huge factor and convincing the

1621
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:47,240
Speaker 3: chip Roys to go along with a plan that doesn't

1622
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 3: play the same kind of debt politics, or maybe subverts

1623
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:54,040
Speaker 3: the typical Freedom Caucus line on debt politics, because now

1624
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:57,880
Speaker 3: they have someone who's willing to be that unitary executive. Finally, Crystal.

1625
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,280
Speaker 3: The other thing for Democrats that's a little complicated time

1626
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,679
Speaker 3: around is with a shutdown, they're currently trying to defend

1627
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 3: federal workers, and federal workers are always, you know, sort

1628
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 3: of the political football in a shutdown, and the agencies

1629
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 3: are always a political football in the shutdown, So that

1630
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 3: definitely complicates their calculus as to how far they push

1631
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 3: this on Friday into Saturday and Sunday.

1632
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 2: I don't doubt that what you're saying is correct about

1633
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 2: Doge helping make this an easier pill to swallow for

1634
01:26:23,479 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 2: the chip Roys of the world. But I don't think

1635
01:26:25,360 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 2: that's really what's going on. I think what's really going

1636
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 2: on is Elon's billions and the fact that he said, Hey,

1637
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 2: if you don't do what we want you to do

1638
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,080
Speaker 2: and what the President asked you to do or I

1639
01:26:34,120 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 2: ask you to do, I'm going to primary you and

1640
01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to put however much money I need to

1641
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 2: put to make sure that you are defeated.

1642
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:41,759
Speaker 4: And then you've got Trump out.

1643
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 2: There and Chris Lasovida making a test case of Thomas

1644
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 2: Massey and you know, threatening him, who's a very popular

1645
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,599
Speaker 2: figure with a lot of the Republican base and certainly

1646
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 2: popular in his district as well. So you know, you're

1647
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,519
Speaker 2: really going after someone who's quite prominent. So it's like, oh,

1648
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,680
Speaker 2: if even Thomas Massey is going to be put in

1649
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 2: their see, anyone really can be. And so that's why

1650
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 2: I think that the Elon and Trump era of MAGA

1651
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 2: has crushed the remaining rebellion among the Tea Party, like

1652
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,760
Speaker 2: the Tea Party wing of the Republican Party, outside of

1653
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: Thomas Massey and Rand Paul are probably the only ones

1654
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 2: who are really willing to dissent. It's kind of interesting

1655
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,559
Speaker 2: they're both from Kentucky because Kentucky is not actually that

1656
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 2: libertarian of a state. But whatever, that's a side note.

1657
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 2: But I think that they have ended effectively the Tea

1658
01:27:31,080 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 2: Party rebellion era of Republican politics, just through the sheer

1659
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:40,880
Speaker 2: force of cultive personality, the megaphone that is X and

1660
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 2: Elon being the richest man on the planet.

1661
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that is absolutely a factor, There's no

1662
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:50,599
Speaker 3: question about it. Sort of a sort of Damocles Crystal.

1663
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:53,679
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and get to Ryan Grimm, who we're

1664
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:58,799
Speaker 3: delighted to have joined us this morning. We're so happy

1665
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:01,600
Speaker 3: to be joined now by Ryan grim You may have

1666
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 3: heard of him, Ryan, thank you for joining us. I

1667
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 3: know you have a quarantine zone in your house right now,

1668
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 3: so we appreciate it.

1669
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 14: It is. It is quite something.

1670
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's just I was just as I was just mentioning,

1671
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 11: we've got you haven't really lived until you know your

1672
01:28:15,200 --> 01:28:18,320
Speaker 11: wife's getting chemo and two of your kids get flu

1673
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 11: right before that. Oh, okay, this is this is gonna

1674
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:24,160
Speaker 11: this is this is going to be a tight wire act.

1675
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 11: So yeah, she's so she's not even in the house.

1676
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 11: She went to a friend's house after getting it.

1677
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:30,519
Speaker 3: Truly father of the Year. There's no competiby.

1678
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 14: Well, it's I mean there's fewer people in the house now, so.

1679
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 4: It's silver lining.

1680
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,640
Speaker 2: The silver lining is the rest of life is going

1681
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:39,000
Speaker 2: to seem really easy after this.

1682
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 4: That's right, Like I can't believe that this problem before.

1683
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:44,920
Speaker 14: Just coasting downhill from here.

1684
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 3: Gat point. Well, let's start, because we wanted to have

1685
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:50,720
Speaker 3: you come and talk to us about some updates in

1686
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:54,559
Speaker 3: this incredibly important case of Mahmoud Khalil. But let's start

1687
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:58,240
Speaker 3: with Soccer's question at the White House briefing yesterday. Soccer

1688
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 3: was able to get one question in about this situation,

1689
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:04,800
Speaker 3: so we can go ahead and roll e one. Here

1690
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,679
Speaker 3: saga at yesterday's White House Press briefing talking to Press

1691
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:08,880
Speaker 3: Secretary Caroline Lovett.

1692
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 7: Does the administration believe that it needs to charge a

1693
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:16,440
Speaker 7: Green card holder with a crime to be eligible for deportation?

1694
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:22,479
Speaker 6: Well, in fact, Secretary Rubio reserves the right to revoke

1695
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,320
Speaker 6: the visa of Mamoud Khalil, And I'm glad you brought

1696
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 6: this up. Under the Immigration and Nationality Act, the Secretary

1697
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:32,599
Speaker 6: of State has the right to revoke a green card

1698
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 6: or a visa for individuals who serve our adversarial to

1699
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:39,880
Speaker 6: the foreign policy and national security interests of the United

1700
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 6: States of America. And Mahmood Khalil was an individual who

1701
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 6: was given the privilege of coming to this country to

1702
01:29:46,920 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 6: study at one of our nation's finest universities in colleges,

1703
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,959
Speaker 6: and he took advantage of that opportunity, of that privilege

1704
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 6: by siding with terrorists hamas, terrorists who have killed innocent men, women,

1705
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 6: in children, this is an individual who organized group protests

1706
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:09,200
Speaker 6: that not only disrupted college campus classes and harassed Jewish

1707
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 6: American students and made them feel unsafe on their own

1708
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 6: college campus, but also distributed pro hamas propaganda.

1709
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 3: So the legal question here is actually really interesting. There

1710
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 3: is a i would say, overly broad law that the

1711
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 3: administration is citing that does allow the Secretary of State

1712
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 3: to exercise discretion here, and the administration confirmed, actually to

1713
01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,720
Speaker 3: the Free Press a couple of days ago now that

1714
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:36,760
Speaker 3: this is not because Khalil broke any law. They're very

1715
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:40,839
Speaker 3: much not arguing that he broke any law. They're arguing

1716
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,920
Speaker 3: that they have the discretion to toss people legal permanent

1717
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:49,200
Speaker 3: residents out of the country if they are essentially violating

1718
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:55,440
Speaker 3: like the or they're undermining America's national security by protesting

1719
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 3: and doing other sort of acts like that. So, Ryan,

1720
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:01,400
Speaker 3: just give us your reaction to Lovett's answer in the

1721
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:05,839
Speaker 3: context of everything we've seen, fairly messy sort of attempt

1722
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:07,720
Speaker 3: to explain all of this from the administration.

1723
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm glad Sager pinned her down on that, because

1724
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 11: now we understand that the administration is, like you said,

1725
01:31:16,479 --> 01:31:20,559
Speaker 11: making the claim that they don't need to charge a

1726
01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 11: Green card holder, and you're probably a lot of Green

1727
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,200
Speaker 11: card holders. That means you're a lawful permanent resident. You're

1728
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 11: on the you're on this on the pathway to citizenship.

1729
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 11: Next and next you take your take your test if

1730
01:31:30,479 --> 01:31:32,960
Speaker 11: you if you want to that, if you're in that

1731
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 11: status lawful permanent resident, that Rubio can kick you out

1732
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:43,000
Speaker 11: without any due process, without charging you with a crime,

1733
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 11: without even administrative process, kind of inside of the State Department,

1734
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:50,680
Speaker 11: that if he decides that you are a threat to

1735
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 11: national security, he can get rid of you. The argument

1736
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 11: that they are making is that anti combating anti Semitism

1737
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 11: is a foreign policy priority of the United States, and

1738
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,519
Speaker 11: that having somebody who's anti Semitic in the United States

1739
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:16,720
Speaker 11: undermines the US ability to pursue its fight against anti Semitism.

1740
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 11: So you could also imagine if Democrats said that as

1741
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:23,639
Speaker 11: they did, that climate change is a national security threat

1742
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 11: and foreign policy is organized around combating climate change, that

1743
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,839
Speaker 11: anybody who's here who's a permanent resident who doesn't approve

1744
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 11: of the Biden administration's climate policy is therefore a threat

1745
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 11: to climate policy, or protests it.

1746
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 3: It hands out anti climate denying posters or whatever it is, yeah.

1747
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 11: Or yeah if they said that, look, January sixth was

1748
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 11: an insurrection and the Proud Boys are domestic terrorists, and

1749
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 11: that then anybody who says anything about the twenty twenty

1750
01:32:57,040 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 11: election is therefore supporting domestic terrorists. And if they're a

1751
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:05,200
Speaker 11: permanent resident, then they can be expelled. You know, you're

1752
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,479
Speaker 11: right that there is this law in the books that

1753
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,040
Speaker 11: could be read to grant the Secretary of State this authority.

1754
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:14,080
Speaker 11: We've been around for two hundred and fifty years. That

1755
01:33:14,200 --> 01:33:17,479
Speaker 11: history has been dark at times. There are an awful

1756
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:21,160
Speaker 11: lot of ugly laws and traconian laws on our books

1757
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:25,960
Speaker 11: that we understand today are in complete and obvious conflict

1758
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:28,960
Speaker 11: with the Constitution, and this is one of them. So

1759
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,240
Speaker 11: we'll see though whether or not the court ends up

1760
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 11: agreeing with that. There's supposed to there'll be a hearing

1761
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:38,879
Speaker 11: late this morning between the Council and the government.

1762
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,639
Speaker 2: I mean, you can just imagine the freak out if

1763
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:44,800
Speaker 2: the shoe was on the other foot as you're laying

1764
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:48,880
Speaker 2: out Ryan like, let's say that Biden declared that combating racism,

1765
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:54,200
Speaker 2: anti black racism was a foreign policy priority, and let's

1766
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 2: say maybe Elon Musk still was a permanent resident and

1767
01:33:57,479 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 2: not a citizen.

1768
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 4: You're like white South Africa. Sorry, you gotta go.

1769
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon says, you're the most racist people on the

1770
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:04,679
Speaker 2: face of the planet.

1771
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 4: So that's it for you.

1772
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 11: And you've defended these people who say that they are racist,

1773
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:15,240
Speaker 11: like that one Doggie dog Kid who said, like, I

1774
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:17,720
Speaker 11: was a proud racist before being racist was cool, and

1775
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:19,679
Speaker 11: they defended him. So okay, now are you all terrorists

1776
01:34:19,720 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 11: because you're all like in contravention of this US policy

1777
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,519
Speaker 11: against racism Like that would be absurd, but that's certainly

1778
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 11: the precedent they're setting up.

1779
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 2: So let me go ahead and get your reaction to Trump.

1780
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:34,920
Speaker 2: During his you know, Tesla sales pitch on the White

1781
01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 2: House lawn situation, got asked a question about this as well,

1782
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,200
Speaker 2: and indicated that mach Mukhalil would.

1783
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:42,720
Speaker 4: Be the first of many. Let's take a listen to that.

1784
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:44,800
Speaker 10: I think we are to get them all out of

1785
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:49,040
Speaker 10: the country. They're troublemakers, they're agitators, they don't love our country.

1786
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 10: We are to get them the hell out.

1787
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:51,000
Speaker 3: I think that guy, we.

1788
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 7: Would to get him.

1789
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 10: I heard his statements too, there were plenty bit and

1790
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 10: I think we are to get him the hell out

1791
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:56,439
Speaker 10: of the country.

1792
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,759
Speaker 2: His statements were plenty bad. So I mean, just again,

1793
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 2: this isn't about a crime. This is about things that

1794
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:06,439
Speaker 2: he said that the administration doesn't like. And this alleged

1795
01:35:06,479 --> 01:35:09,599
Speaker 2: Hemus material, which is so bad Caroline Levin couldn't even

1796
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:11,640
Speaker 2: bring into the briefing room to share with us just

1797
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 2: how terrible this propaganda he was distributing or affiliated with was.

1798
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:21,280
Speaker 2: But you know, there was what seems to have unfolded here,

1799
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:24,080
Speaker 2: and this is your reporting as well as other outlets,

1800
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:26,920
Speaker 2: is that when they went to pick up to arrest Khalil,

1801
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 2: they thought he was there on a student visa, and

1802
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 2: then he and his wife were like he's a green

1803
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 2: cardle like he's a permanent resident, and they're like, don't care,

1804
01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:38,679
Speaker 2: we're taking him anyway. And so the theory was basically

1805
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:41,759
Speaker 2: like the administration kind of bungled this and they overreach

1806
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:44,439
Speaker 2: went far beyond what they had intended to. But they're

1807
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 2: certainly not backing away from it. Instead, they're using this

1808
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 2: as a justification and go even further and say, yeah,

1809
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,960
Speaker 2: that's right, student visa green card holder. If we don't

1810
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 2: want you here, if Secretary of Rubio decides that you're

1811
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 2: an anti semite, that's it.

1812
01:35:55,479 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 4: You're gone.

1813
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:58,040
Speaker 14: Yeah, and what's wild.

1814
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:01,080
Speaker 11: And we reported this at drop site that Elvin Hernandez

1815
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:04,920
Speaker 11: was the ICE agent who had the conversation, particularly with

1816
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:09,960
Speaker 11: Amy Greer, who is Boo Khalil's attorney. Elvin Hernandez was

1817
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:13,040
Speaker 11: the twenty nineteen guest at the State of the Union

1818
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:17,639
Speaker 11: of President Trump. Interesting coincidence if it is that. But yes,

1819
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:21,799
Speaker 11: he told her we're picking him up because we're revoking

1820
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 11: his student visa, and she told him he is a

1821
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 11: permanent resident, he's a green card. And his response, according

1822
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 11: to the court finally was oh, well we're revoking that.

1823
01:36:30,120 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 14: Too, So yeah.

1824
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 11: Clearly it's like you know, they called it an audible

1825
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 11: and we may end up getting this extraordinary rollback in

1826
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:46,680
Speaker 11: civil liberties over incompetence, over a failure to just go

1827
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:49,720
Speaker 11: in their own database and check whether or not he

1828
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,080
Speaker 11: was on a student visa or or whether he was on.

1829
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 14: A green card.

1830
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:57,120
Speaker 11: Because once you're on a green card, you do have

1831
01:36:57,200 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 11: more protections than when you're here on a student visa.

1832
01:37:00,439 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 11: Student visa, you really or are other kinds of visas

1833
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 11: you really can be you know, set back out of

1834
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,040
Speaker 11: the country, you know, with with with very little rationale

1835
01:37:09,120 --> 01:37:11,400
Speaker 11: or in some cases no rationale at all. But once

1836
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:15,040
Speaker 11: you're a legal permanent resident, the paperwork is that you

1837
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:17,640
Speaker 11: that all Green card holders get is very clear you

1838
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:20,080
Speaker 11: have to be convicted of a crime to be expelled.

1839
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 11: They don't mention this like obscure. You know, you're you're

1840
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:28,000
Speaker 11: endorsing terrorism thing. But by the way, one one detail

1841
01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:31,559
Speaker 11: on that on that Hamas propaganda that they said he

1842
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:35,000
Speaker 11: was distributing, we don't actually know if he was handing

1843
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,519
Speaker 11: it out or if it was being handed out in

1844
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 11: the same building where he was. But aside from that,

1845
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 11: the law on this, as it's been decided by courts

1846
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:48,639
Speaker 11: has always been that it's actually okay to support illegal things,

1847
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 11: support terrorism even you know, you can support drug trafficking, whatever,

1848
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:57,280
Speaker 11: as long as you're doing it as speech independently of

1849
01:37:57,320 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 11: the criminal activity and so like the to take the

1850
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:03,920
Speaker 11: most extreme example, you could say that I support al

1851
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:07,880
Speaker 11: Qaeda's right to behead people or whatever like. You can

1852
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:11,000
Speaker 11: say that legally, that's protected speech. What you can't do

1853
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:14,679
Speaker 11: is coordinate with al Qaeda in order to push forward

1854
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,879
Speaker 11: that that propaganda. That that's when it becomes material support

1855
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:23,400
Speaker 11: for terrorism. There's no claim that Hamas like while it

1856
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:26,439
Speaker 11: was like, you know, fending off this assault, was also

1857
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,840
Speaker 11: like on the side, like advising campus protesters like how

1858
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:33,240
Speaker 11: to like and the history of the kind of palcitting

1859
01:38:33,320 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 11: movement inside inside Gaza and the West Bank suggests that, like,

1860
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,160
Speaker 11: they've never really done that. There's been criticism of them

1861
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 11: for their absolute lack of outreach them the PLO and others.

1862
01:38:45,120 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 11: And so even if it is the case that he

1863
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:50,120
Speaker 11: was distributing this material, which doesn't seem to be the case,

1864
01:38:50,560 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 11: it would be okay because obviously it's we quote Hamas

1865
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:58,479
Speaker 11: you know regularly in news reports. There's nothing wrong with

1866
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:03,000
Speaker 11: doing that as long as not coordinating and materially supporting them.

1867
01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:06,600
Speaker 2: Well, Emily, I don't know, maybe what's the name of

1868
01:39:06,640 --> 01:39:10,759
Speaker 2: the Trump negotiator who went and was talking directly to Hamas,

1869
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 2: is he's materially supporting terrorism as well. I mean, you know,

1870
01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 2: it's it is a funny time for them to be

1871
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 2: pressing this case at a time when they're also making

1872
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:21,720
Speaker 2: I think the correct point that you know, you got

1873
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:23,240
Speaker 2: to talk to these people and you got to deal

1874
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:24,960
Speaker 2: with them and his words. You know, you may find

1875
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:26,680
Speaker 2: out that they don't have horns coming out of their head.

1876
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 2: Maybe they're maybe they're good guys.

1877
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:32,559
Speaker 3: The flyers in question, there's one of them that says

1878
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:34,680
Speaker 3: something like crush Zionism and it's a boot coming down

1879
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 3: the star of David. But there are two others, and

1880
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:40,080
Speaker 3: that one, by the way, is very explicitly anti Zionists

1881
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:45,200
Speaker 3: and not explicitly anti Semitic, as you know the administration

1882
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,640
Speaker 3: is implying. But of course House Republicans and some Democrats

1883
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 3: passed a bill that said recently anti Semitism, anti Zionism

1884
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 3: is anti Semitism. So there's that overly broad question as well.

1885
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:59,559
Speaker 3: But the other two flyers are legitimately they look very

1886
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 3: very bad. That if you have someone who is on

1887
01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:04,839
Speaker 3: a student visa who is handing out these types of flyers,

1888
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:07,679
Speaker 3: you asked, well, how is somebody on a student visa

1889
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:11,080
Speaker 3: this opposed to the like I think one of the

1890
01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 3: things said that the charter of the group that Khalil

1891
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:16,439
Speaker 3: is a part of says something like they want to

1892
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 3: crash Western imperialisms.

1893
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 11: And it was like, well, okay, that appeared to be

1894
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:25,840
Speaker 11: like an instagram, like it's a quote from somebody else,

1895
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:29,120
Speaker 11: like some author said this, and somebody who handles their

1896
01:40:29,120 --> 01:40:31,280
Speaker 11: social media page made it one of their like little

1897
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:32,160
Speaker 11: Instagram things.

1898
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:36,880
Speaker 14: So I don't know if the organization like actually endorses that.

1899
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:40,519
Speaker 11: I said, we we advocate for the apple abolition of

1900
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:42,840
Speaker 11: Western civilization. But if they did, that's a that's a

1901
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 11: pretty far left kind of thing.

1902
01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:47,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, to say it is, it is, and it's I mean,

1903
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:50,719
Speaker 3: it's age. Yeah, it's protective speech. But there's I actually

1904
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:54,599
Speaker 3: do think in principle, there's a legitimate American interest in

1905
01:40:54,680 --> 01:40:57,719
Speaker 3: like bringing people or giving visas to people who actually are,

1906
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,360
Speaker 3: you know, displaying an interest in improving the United States

1907
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:02,479
Speaker 3: and contributing to the United States and all of that.

1908
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 3: But but I say that with a caveat that this

1909
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 3: is not a student visa. They think they I think

1910
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 3: they thought they had a layup test case here with

1911
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:14,920
Speaker 3: a student visa where they can make this argument. And

1912
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:18,920
Speaker 3: we still don't have any pictures, video that I'm aware of,

1913
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:23,599
Speaker 3: at least of Khalil himself distributing this information and saying,

1914
01:41:23,640 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 3: for example, support Hamas, you know, he was the one flyer,

1915
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 3: is like a explanation. It's like Hamas's explanation of why

1916
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,719
Speaker 3: they executed as they say all Oxa flood in October seventh,

1917
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:40,400
Speaker 3: and there's all kinds of context hypothetically whether or not,

1918
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:42,760
Speaker 3: you know, you think whether or not it looks like

1919
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:45,599
Speaker 3: Khalil was engaged in this hypothetical scenario. But there's all

1920
01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:48,759
Speaker 3: types of context where you would say, we should study

1921
01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:53,360
Speaker 3: Hamas's explanation for what they did for the terror that

1922
01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:56,479
Speaker 3: they reaked. There's one that says something like, sometimes you

1923
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:58,360
Speaker 3: need a flood. That was one of the other flyers,

1924
01:41:58,360 --> 01:42:01,600
Speaker 3: which is actually I think that is pretty disgusting. But

1925
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:06,320
Speaker 3: you know, we don't actually know. The administration hasn't connected

1926
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 3: the dots as to whether or not he was endorsing

1927
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:12,439
Speaker 3: these views and handing out these flyers. We just see

1928
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 3: the flyers. It's they're not really prosecuting this case very.

1929
01:42:15,920 --> 01:42:20,000
Speaker 11: Well, right because they're they're doing they're doing it backwards.

1930
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:24,360
Speaker 11: And there's a lot of speculation also that they are

1931
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 11: ginting up this controversy in order to satisfy the pro

1932
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 11: Israel universe here in the United States, to soften them

1933
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:39,840
Speaker 11: up to then ram through a long term truce and

1934
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:44,639
Speaker 11: prisoner exchange that Israel will heavily object to, and that

1935
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 11: that that is a fairly standard kind of trumpy and

1936
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:53,040
Speaker 11: move to do something like outrageous and bellicos in a

1937
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 11: symbolic way to to draw out a lot of anger

1938
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:00,160
Speaker 11: and then cut and then cut the other way. You've

1939
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:05,320
Speaker 11: seen it with Ukraine Russia dynamic, you know, repeatedly. So

1940
01:43:05,880 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 11: you know, we'll see because which would which would suggest

1941
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 11: that they don't really take anything they're saying seriously, that

1942
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:18,240
Speaker 11: it's that it's just kind of anti Palestinian hostility just

1943
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:23,640
Speaker 11: manifest for the purpose of just throwing red meat to

1944
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:28,439
Speaker 11: the pro Israel lobby in order to them screw them

1945
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 11: over a couple of weeks from now.

1946
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's possible. I think also there's

1947
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:38,280
Speaker 2: some rumblings in the base that like, the mass deportation

1948
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:41,840
Speaker 2: hasn't been as mass deportation et as the you know,

1949
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:42,839
Speaker 2: as was promised.

1950
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:46,080
Speaker 11: So this is, you know, is a good example that

1951
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:48,799
Speaker 11: you don't you don't they don't get the mass deportation,

1952
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:50,840
Speaker 11: so they get the spectacle of low Look we're sending

1953
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:52,160
Speaker 11: people to Guantanamo and.

1954
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,839
Speaker 2: The military planes and all of that sort of stuff.

1955
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 2: Then you also have i mean, you know, Trump just

1956
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:01,880
Speaker 2: is I think has authoritarian and stincs and is likes

1957
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:04,360
Speaker 2: the sense of power of just being able to do

1958
01:44:04,439 --> 01:44:06,679
Speaker 2: what he wants, with who he wants, whenever he wants.

1959
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 2: He sees these pro Palestine groups as being lefties, that

1960
01:44:11,400 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 2: lifty activists that he hates anyway, so he gets to

1961
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:19,559
Speaker 2: crush an enemy, and he sees universities writ large as like,

1962
01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, training breeding grounds for lefties, Marxists and socialists

1963
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:28,599
Speaker 2: and you know, and liberals and people who vote against him,

1964
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:30,920
Speaker 2: and so, you know, as part and parcel of this.

1965
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 2: This comes at the same time that they just summarily

1966
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:36,920
Speaker 2: stripped four hundred million dollars in funding from Columbia. Sixty

1967
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:40,880
Speaker 2: universities have gotten letters nationwide, you know, including University of

1968
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Virginia where I went, public schools, you know, private universities

1969
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:48,520
Speaker 2: in red states and blue states, et cetera, saying basically,

1970
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:52,360
Speaker 2: you're next if unless you can prove that you did

1971
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:54,519
Speaker 2: everything we want on anti SEMSU, which if you read

1972
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:57,120
Speaker 2: the letter, like, there's no way anyone could ever actually

1973
01:44:57,200 --> 01:45:00,920
Speaker 2: prove that they satisfied whatever it is that the administration

1974
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:04,880
Speaker 2: is looking for. So yeah, and I also think that

1975
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:07,760
Speaker 2: they feel like, and I've seen a lot of conservatives

1976
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 2: say this, like, oh, here's Democrats fighting again on an

1977
01:45:10,360 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 2: eighty twenty issue, which I'm not sure that they're right

1978
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,120
Speaker 2: about that polling, because I do think that people have

1979
01:45:15,160 --> 01:45:19,080
Speaker 2: a reaction against, you know, assaults on free speech, et cetera.

1980
01:45:19,120 --> 01:45:20,439
Speaker 4: It depends on how you frame it.

1981
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:22,360
Speaker 2: But I think that they also see it as a

1982
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,839
Speaker 2: political winner because they can say, oh, this guy's pro Homas,

1983
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:27,320
Speaker 2: Why are you supporting people who are pro terrorists, et cetera.

1984
01:45:27,760 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 2: So I think there's a whole bunch of reasons that

1985
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:33,480
Speaker 2: cut toward in the direction of why the Trump administration

1986
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:36,920
Speaker 2: would would you know, take this course. And none of

1987
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:39,839
Speaker 2: that is to excuse it, though, because ultimately the impact

1988
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 2: of this, you know, authoritarian crushing of speech, I think,

1989
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 2: you know, comparable to things that we saw with like

1990
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:50,760
Speaker 2: McCarthy's red Scare type of tactics, if not even more aggressive.

1991
01:45:51,560 --> 01:45:53,840
Speaker 2: That impact is very, very real and can't just be

1992
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:55,680
Speaker 2: sort of waved away as like, oh, well, Trump's just

1993
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:57,479
Speaker 2: using this as like a negotiating tactic.

1994
01:45:58,760 --> 01:45:59,840
Speaker 14: Is more likely to see more of it.

1995
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:03,960
Speaker 11: Nary emission, which you know kind of organizes you know

1996
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:07,720
Speaker 11: against you know, uh, students who you know, protest on

1997
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 11: behalf of Palstein has put out another list of people

1998
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:12,320
Speaker 11: and some and some of the offenses that those people

1999
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:17,000
Speaker 11: are listed as having effected as like going going to

2000
01:46:17,439 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 11: the encampment, like visiting it like that, Like that's it.

2001
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 11: They're not they're not trying to claim anything more beyond that,

2002
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:25,519
Speaker 11: and it's already having a chilling effect. Like we there

2003
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 11: was a story that came into us just maybe a

2004
01:46:28,760 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 11: week ago. Uh, there's some employees from a company that

2005
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:33,559
Speaker 11: wanted to speak out about what was going on in

2006
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:36,439
Speaker 11: there after this happened. They're saying, you know what, actually,

2007
01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:39,800
Speaker 11: let's let's wait on this. I don't think we can

2008
01:46:39,880 --> 01:46:43,200
Speaker 11: speak out right now. And that is that's the goal here,

2009
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 11: to chill the ability of people to expose, you know,

2010
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:49,360
Speaker 11: wrongdoing and to speak out.

2011
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 3: I want to get your both of your take on

2012
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 3: how Democrats are handling this, because you guys were both

2013
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:58,280
Speaker 3: sort of just talking about what type of maybe trap

2014
01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:02,240
Speaker 3: Republicans think they're Democrats in. So let's put six up

2015
01:47:02,240 --> 01:47:05,919
Speaker 3: on the screen. This is a response from Chucks Senator

2016
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:10,000
Speaker 3: Chuck Schumer, who said, I abhorror many of the opinions

2017
01:47:10,040 --> 01:47:12,640
Speaker 3: and policies that macmu Khalil holds and supports and have

2018
01:47:12,760 --> 01:47:15,400
Speaker 3: made my criticism of the anti Semitic actions at Columbia

2019
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:18,559
Speaker 3: loudly known. Mister Khalil is also legal permanent resident here

2020
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:22,559
Speaker 3: and his wife, who's eight months pregnant, is an American citizen.

2021
01:47:22,800 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 3: But he said, this is a matter for the university

2022
01:47:24,520 --> 01:47:26,360
Speaker 3: to pursue, and I have encouraged them to be much

2023
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:30,120
Speaker 3: more robust and how they combat anti Semitism and remain

2024
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 3: a and maintain a harassment free campus that protects the

2025
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:38,960
Speaker 3: safety and security of Jewish and other students. That is

2026
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 3: really lukewarm. He calls on DHS to articulate the case

2027
01:47:42,920 --> 01:47:46,840
Speaker 3: against Khalil basically, so both of you, maybe just starting

2028
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:49,759
Speaker 3: with Ryan, what is your reaction to the way Schumer

2029
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:50,160
Speaker 3: handled this.

2030
01:47:51,479 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 11: He got a lot of criticism for leading with you know,

2031
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:59,120
Speaker 11: I abhor his speech, rather than free speech must be protected,

2032
01:47:59,160 --> 01:48:04,160
Speaker 11: particularly for speech that you abhoor, because that's the whole point, right, we're.

2033
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:05,880
Speaker 14: Not here out We're not out here.

2034
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 11: To defend the speech of people we agree with, like

2035
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:10,840
Speaker 11: and who are saying very civil milk toast things like that.

2036
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,360
Speaker 11: Nobody needs to defend that. You can say that in

2037
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:17,320
Speaker 11: some Saddam Hussein's a wreck. What you have to defend

2038
01:48:17,360 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 11: is the stuff that makes you tug at your collar

2039
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 11: a little bit and say, oh, wow, you can really

2040
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:22,400
Speaker 11: say that.

2041
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:25,240
Speaker 14: I guess you can guess. I guess we have free

2042
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:25,760
Speaker 14: speech here.

2043
01:48:26,760 --> 01:48:30,519
Speaker 11: Meanwhile, the Republicans are happy to elevate the Senate Judiciary

2044
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:34,840
Speaker 11: Committee that just straight up said freemonk mu Khalil. So

2045
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:39,680
Speaker 11: like the Democrats, you know, just lose everywhere, you know,

2046
01:48:39,720 --> 01:48:44,480
Speaker 11: because from the Republican perspective, they see Democrats as unapologetically,

2047
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:50,280
Speaker 11: unconditionally standing up for a Hama supporter from the left.

2048
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:54,640
Speaker 11: They see Schumer equivocating and like denouncing him before he

2049
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 11: gets around to defending him. So, you know, you can

2050
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:00,840
Speaker 11: kind of see from the Republican prospect why they think

2051
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:04,559
Speaker 11: that they have a winning political moment here, even if

2052
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:08,240
Speaker 11: what they're doing is unraveling what generations of Americans have

2053
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:11,599
Speaker 11: fought for for two hundred and fifty years to uphold. Yeah,

2054
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:13,240
Speaker 11: they might have a couple of good weeks here.

2055
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:16,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it remains to be seen

2056
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 2: because it also does play into the accurate image of

2057
01:49:20,040 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 2: Trump as this just like authoritarian who throws his weight

2058
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:26,440
Speaker 2: around and criminalizes speech, and you know, it's total hypocrite

2059
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 2: and they ran on like, Oh, we're going to be

2060
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:30,280
Speaker 2: the free speech people, and then immediately like, and we're

2061
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 2: going to jail you for saying things that we didn't

2062
01:49:32,320 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 2: like at a rally.

2063
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:34,839
Speaker 4: But you know, Chris.

2064
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 2: Murphy, who has been pretty good in Trump two point zero,

2065
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,320
Speaker 2: put out a good statement that led Ryan, like you said,

2066
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:44,040
Speaker 2: with the you know, bottom line, it doesn't really matter

2067
01:49:44,120 --> 01:49:46,519
Speaker 2: what he said and how you feel about it, that's

2068
01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:49,559
Speaker 2: not the point. The point is that we have free speech.

2069
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 2: And I don't think it's that hard to message that.

2070
01:49:52,760 --> 01:49:55,639
Speaker 2: You know, the problem with Schumer and Hinkeem Jeffries, both

2071
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,080
Speaker 2: of whom are the most are the weakest, most pathetic

2072
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,519
Speaker 2: leaders I have ever seen in my life, and both

2073
01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:03,479
Speaker 2: need to resign in my personal, humble opinion, is the

2074
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 2: first thing you do is validate their frame. What's the

2075
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:09,519
Speaker 2: Republican frame. He's an anti semi and a terrorist supporter,

2076
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:11,439
Speaker 2: And the first words out of your mouth are to

2077
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:14,880
Speaker 2: basically be like they're right about him, Like this is

2078
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 2: the idiot, Like this is the idiocy of the Democratic

2079
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 2: Party in general. I mean, they did the same thing

2080
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:23,479
Speaker 2: with immigration in the last election cycle, and I get

2081
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:27,320
Speaker 2: immigration tough issue, et cetera, et cetera. But they thought

2082
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:30,680
Speaker 2: they really had Republicans when they passed their own like

2083
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:34,880
Speaker 2: hawkish border build like look, were the real border hawks. No,

2084
01:50:35,640 --> 01:50:38,479
Speaker 2: you just gave credence to their framing of the world.

2085
01:50:38,760 --> 01:50:41,639
Speaker 2: You just helped to bolster the way that they view

2086
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:44,640
Speaker 2: and they pitch immigration as the number one problem and

2087
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:47,120
Speaker 2: a you know, anarchy at the border and a flood

2088
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,360
Speaker 2: and an invasion of blah blah blah, like that's what

2089
01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:53,000
Speaker 2: you're leading with. So no, I think it's foolish. I

2090
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:56,160
Speaker 2: don't think it helps them political politically. I think that

2091
01:50:56,280 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 2: the base of the Democratic Party, like talk about misreading

2092
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:01,920
Speaker 2: the moment between those two dudes and then Gavin Newsom

2093
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:05,640
Speaker 2: running around, you know, giving massages to Charlie Kirk and

2094
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 2: Michael Savage.

2095
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:07,479
Speaker 4: And next Steve Vannen, etc.

2096
01:51:08,520 --> 01:51:12,080
Speaker 2: The base wants you to fight and be adversarial and

2097
01:51:12,479 --> 01:51:15,720
Speaker 2: push like a different frame of the world, not just

2098
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 2: constantly validate right wing frames. And that's what Chuck Schumer,

2099
01:51:19,360 --> 01:51:21,920
Speaker 2: in addition to just being like weak and lame and

2100
01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 2: taking eighty million years even get to the freaking point,

2101
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 2: which is part of the problem too. You lead with

2102
01:51:27,640 --> 01:51:31,160
Speaker 2: validating their frame. You capitulate in the first paragraphs and

2103
01:51:31,200 --> 01:51:31,800
Speaker 2: then you're done.

2104
01:51:33,040 --> 01:51:35,759
Speaker 11: Yeah, and Schumer knows full well that a huge number

2105
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:39,679
Speaker 11: of the protesters in that encampment were Jewish students themselves.

2106
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,679
Speaker 11: That's right, so many, so they'd have savors every weekend.

2107
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:45,200
Speaker 3: Well, we can roll e seven actually, as Ryan makes

2108
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:46,719
Speaker 3: this point.

2109
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, and of course it's true that there are a

2110
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:52,960
Speaker 11: you know, non trivial number of Jewish students at Columbia

2111
01:51:53,080 --> 01:51:58,000
Speaker 11: University who feel like criticism of Israel or calling the

2112
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:01,880
Speaker 11: attack on Gaza a genisi is anti Semitic and makes

2113
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 11: them feel unsafe and is unpleasant, and and all those

2114
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:07,679
Speaker 11: things like those are those are genuine feelings. That doesn't

2115
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:10,760
Speaker 11: change the fact that there are so many, you know,

2116
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:13,559
Speaker 11: Jewish students who disagree with them and are right there

2117
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:15,720
Speaker 11: in the in campus. One of the few people who

2118
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,120
Speaker 11: has acknowledged that in our politics is Donald Trump. He

2119
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:20,920
Speaker 11: was on a did an interview with Hugh Hewett, and

2120
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,800
Speaker 11: I think at the moment, Trump was particularly mad at

2121
01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:26,280
Speaker 11: Jewish voters because he was seeing polls that were showing

2122
01:52:26,320 --> 01:52:28,960
Speaker 11: that they were still voting for Democrats, even as he says,

2123
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:31,200
Speaker 11: I gave them Jerusalem, I gave them the goal on

2124
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:34,280
Speaker 11: heights and they're still voting for Democrats. And Hugh was

2125
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 11: complaining about the campus protests and he says, Hugh, you know,

2126
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:40,519
Speaker 11: like a lot of those kids out there are Jewish kids.

2127
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,760
Speaker 11: You do realize that right here? And he was like, yes, yes,

2128
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 11: there's you know, there are a few outliers. He's like, no, no,

2129
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:47,559
Speaker 11: there's a lot of them out there. You know, Trump

2130
01:52:47,640 --> 01:52:52,559
Speaker 11: meant it as an insult, but Trump like understands that,

2131
01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:55,120
Speaker 11: and so does Schumer, and and everybody who has looked

2132
01:52:55,120 --> 01:52:57,880
Speaker 11: at this understands it. And yet here we get this

2133
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 11: claim that it is anti Semitic despite a few If

2134
01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:03,519
Speaker 11: you listen to what Mukalia would say on CNN and elsewhere,

2135
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:07,080
Speaker 11: he would always say, the liberation of the Jewish people,

2136
01:53:07,080 --> 01:53:10,240
Speaker 11: in the liberation of the Palestinian people are entwined, like

2137
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:14,400
Speaker 11: we can only go forward in peace together to a

2138
01:53:14,479 --> 01:53:18,479
Speaker 11: place of equality and dignity, which is not Hamas rhetoric

2139
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:21,800
Speaker 11: at all. Right, by the way, right, yeah, that was

2140
01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:22,559
Speaker 11: what he was saying.

2141
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:25,439
Speaker 2: And the last point I'll make on this is, if

2142
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:28,360
Speaker 2: it is the foreign policy priority of the US to

2143
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:31,240
Speaker 2: stop the spread of anti Semitism, we are doing an

2144
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:33,720
Speaker 2: absolutely dreadful job of it because.

2145
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:35,040
Speaker 14: Should be deported if that's.

2146
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 2: Absolutely the case, because that's the other thing is, like,

2147
01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:42,120
Speaker 2: you know, the left is very careful. I think you

2148
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:43,840
Speaker 2: may have made this point that somebody who made this

2149
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:45,759
Speaker 2: point recently. The little left tends to be very careful

2150
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:49,920
Speaker 2: to separate Israel from the Jewish people. And you know,

2151
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:53,360
Speaker 2: symbolic gatherings such as the one that we just showed

2152
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 2: of Jewish students who are anti Zionist helps to prove

2153
01:53:57,240 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 2: that point. And that's part of why Jewish organizations who

2154
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 2: are anti Zionists have been at the forefront of the

2155
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:07,760
Speaker 2: pro Palestine movement to make that point. The right, constantly,

2156
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:11,719
Speaker 2: led by bb Nan, Yahoo conflates the two, and Biden

2157
01:54:11,880 --> 01:54:14,400
Speaker 2: conflated the two, and Trump conflates the job.

2158
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:16,240
Speaker 4: I mean, it's you know, if.

2159
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 2: You are if you support Israel, you support Jews, and

2160
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:21,880
Speaker 2: if you don't support Israel.

2161
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:22,519
Speaker 4: You hate Jews.

2162
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,280
Speaker 2: Well, guess what when Israel is out there cutting off

2163
01:54:25,360 --> 01:54:30,720
Speaker 2: electricity to attrapped population, trying to starve them and dehydrate them,

2164
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:34,400
Speaker 2: you don't think that that is going to contribute to

2165
01:54:34,480 --> 01:54:37,560
Speaker 2: a spread of anti Semitism here and around the world.

2166
01:54:37,880 --> 01:54:41,680
Speaker 2: When you're the most conflating, Yeah, conflating Israel and the.

2167
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:44,680
Speaker 11: Right also, and the right also refuses to make any

2168
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:49,440
Speaker 11: distinction between Hamas civilians and Gaza and campus protesters, like

2169
01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:53,200
Speaker 11: anybody who is critical of Israel's conduct in the war

2170
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:58,200
Speaker 11: is just proomus, flat flat out, no effort whatsoever to

2171
01:54:58,240 --> 01:54:59,160
Speaker 11: make any distinction.

2172
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:04,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a significant problem. Khalil is scheduled

2173
01:55:04,440 --> 01:55:07,240
Speaker 3: to appear in court today. We should add the battle

2174
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:09,360
Speaker 3: is raging over where his case will be heard, whether

2175
01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 3: in Louisiana or council.

2176
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:12,040
Speaker 14: Schedule to appear.

2177
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 11: We've been trying to track flights out of that Louisiana prison.

2178
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 11: I don't think he's going to be there, but we'll see.

2179
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:19,720
Speaker 3: ABC News says he's scheduled to appear in court as

2180
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:21,120
Speaker 3: of this morning.

2181
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:23,600
Speaker 14: But well, I hope you I very much hope he's there.

2182
01:55:23,840 --> 01:55:28,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, we will see. So that's the story to watch today. Ryan,

2183
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:29,840
Speaker 3: thank you so much for taking a slice of your

2184
01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:32,440
Speaker 3: very busy morning to help explain this to us.

2185
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:33,600
Speaker 14: You've got it.

2186
01:55:33,720 --> 01:55:35,840
Speaker 2: Good luck to you and see your kiddos, and certainly

2187
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:36,400
Speaker 2: to your wife.

2188
01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:39,160
Speaker 14: Appreciate it. Thank you for filling in. Much appreciated.

2189
01:55:39,400 --> 01:55:40,200
Speaker 4: Oh anytime.

2190
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 3: Continuing today's theme, of every block being in a block

2191
01:55:44,240 --> 01:55:47,400
Speaker 3: once again, Crystal. We got news late in the day

2192
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:51,080
Speaker 3: yesterday after Secretary Saint Marco Rubio and National Security Advisor

2193
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:55,680
Speaker 3: Michael Waltz left the meeting with Ukrainian negotiators that actually

2194
01:55:55,920 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 3: they had reached an agreement to send a ceasefire proposal

2195
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 3: over to Moscow. Let's take a listen to Rubio after

2196
01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:07,240
Speaker 3: he got out of that meetings meeting in Saudi Arabia.

2197
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 15: Today, We've made an offer that the Ukrainians have accepted,

2198
01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:13,840
Speaker 15: which is to enter into a ceasefire, into immediate negotiations

2199
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:15,880
Speaker 15: to end this conflict in a way that's enduring and

2200
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 15: sustainable and accounts for their interests, their security, their ability

2201
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,920
Speaker 15: to prosper as a nation. I want to personally think

2202
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:25,160
Speaker 15: we both want to thank the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's

2203
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:27,600
Speaker 15: majesty for hosting us, for making this possible. They've been

2204
01:56:27,640 --> 01:56:30,280
Speaker 15: instrumental in this process and we're very grateful to them

2205
01:56:30,280 --> 01:56:33,240
Speaker 15: for hosting us here today. And hopefully we'll take this

2206
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:35,200
Speaker 15: offer and out of the Russians, and we hope that

2207
01:56:35,240 --> 01:56:37,360
Speaker 15: they'll say yes. They'll say yes to peace. The ball

2208
01:56:37,480 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 15: is now in their court. But again the President's objective

2209
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:43,280
Speaker 15: here is number one above everything else.

2210
01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:44,760
Speaker 13: He wants the war to end.

2211
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:47,360
Speaker 15: And I think today Ukraine has taken a concrete step

2212
01:56:47,400 --> 01:56:50,000
Speaker 15: in that regard. We hope the Russians will reciprocate.

2213
01:56:50,440 --> 01:56:52,520
Speaker 3: So let's dig in a little bit more to this deal.

2214
01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:55,600
Speaker 3: But first start with F two, which is Steve Whitkoff,

2215
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,440
Speaker 3: who is actually going to Russia once again this week,

2216
01:56:58,880 --> 01:57:01,880
Speaker 3: saying that Zelenski did apologize to Donald Trump in a

2217
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:05,120
Speaker 3: letter after that explosive argument during an Oval Office meeting.

2218
01:57:05,120 --> 01:57:08,160
Speaker 3: That's how the Hill put it, and Whitcoff said Monday

2219
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:10,160
Speaker 3: on Fox News that Zelensky sent a letter to the president.

2220
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 3: He apologized for that whole incident that happened in the

2221
01:57:13,040 --> 01:57:16,640
Speaker 3: Oval Office. So there you see, Trump got his much

2222
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:22,720
Speaker 3: desired apology out of Zolensky, apparently that letter. But if

2223
01:57:22,760 --> 01:57:24,880
Speaker 3: we put F three on the screen, the Associated Press

2224
01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:27,000
Speaker 3: would have broke down a bit about what is in

2225
01:57:27,080 --> 01:57:30,120
Speaker 3: the agreement. A couple of things worth paying attention to

2226
01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:33,760
Speaker 3: the mineral deal, or at least what did Trump say

2227
01:57:33,800 --> 01:57:36,320
Speaker 3: the concept of a plan. There's a concept of a

2228
01:57:36,360 --> 01:57:40,480
Speaker 3: plan for the mineral deal as part of the Yes,

2229
01:57:40,560 --> 01:57:44,560
Speaker 3: the raw earth, but the rare earth minerals of the

2230
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:47,720
Speaker 3: US getting basically a fifty percent stake in the raw

2231
01:57:49,480 --> 01:57:51,960
Speaker 3: of Ukraine. It would be a thirty day cease fire.

2232
01:57:52,120 --> 01:57:56,680
Speaker 3: As Matthew Lee writes here, that is pending. Obviously the

2233
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:59,680
Speaker 3: Kremlins agreement to this, pending, Putin's agreement to this, but

2234
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:02,400
Speaker 3: that's basically what they were able to come up with. Now,

2235
01:58:02,480 --> 01:58:07,400
Speaker 3: the territory and the borders is a massive open question

2236
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:10,560
Speaker 3: that we don't have answered based on what happened yesterday,

2237
01:58:11,480 --> 01:58:15,720
Speaker 3: but very significant that after that Oval Office blow up,

2238
01:58:16,440 --> 01:58:18,520
Speaker 3: you know, Trump came out with the threat of sanctions

2239
01:58:18,560 --> 01:58:22,320
Speaker 3: towards Russia, he got his apology from Zelenski, and now

2240
01:58:22,360 --> 01:58:26,520
Speaker 3: you have this agreement. Actually, they put out a joint statement.

2241
01:58:26,600 --> 01:58:31,040
Speaker 3: Rubio in his Ukrainian counter parts put out a joint

2242
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:34,760
Speaker 3: statement together, which is it sounds like a silly like

2243
01:58:34,880 --> 01:58:37,600
Speaker 3: Beltway thing, but it's sort of remarkable. Again, after the

2244
01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:41,520
Speaker 3: Oval Office blow up and the fallout throughout Europe and

2245
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:43,800
Speaker 3: the ripple effect that had throughout the world that Ukraine,

2246
01:58:43,800 --> 01:58:47,040
Speaker 3: the United States put out that statement together saying they

2247
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:49,320
Speaker 3: had come up with this thirty day CIEs fire plan.

2248
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:53,520
Speaker 3: Now Witkof is expected to actually meet with Putin this week.

2249
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,720
Speaker 3: Wit Koff obviously also was able to secure the release

2250
01:58:57,800 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 3: of Mark Foegel to negotiations with Russia and was part

2251
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:06,720
Speaker 3: of the initial ceasefire agreement in Gaza Crystal. What do

2252
01:59:06,720 --> 01:59:08,080
Speaker 3: you think is going to happen in the next couple

2253
01:59:08,120 --> 01:59:08,520
Speaker 3: of days.

2254
01:59:09,320 --> 01:59:10,480
Speaker 4: I mean, I have no idea.

2255
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:13,800
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, Like I'm not sure what's in it

2256
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:18,520
Speaker 2: for Russia to accept this deal at this point. And

2257
01:59:18,840 --> 01:59:20,440
Speaker 2: you know, this is one of the things that they

2258
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:23,280
Speaker 2: have to figure out, is like, you know, not to

2259
01:59:23,800 --> 01:59:27,920
Speaker 2: validate like Putin's thinking, or his grievances, or like his

2260
01:59:28,240 --> 01:59:30,680
Speaker 2: justification for what is, at the end of the day,

2261
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:33,960
Speaker 2: like a completely illegal and outrageous invasion that's been fun,

2262
01:59:34,040 --> 01:59:38,560
Speaker 2: incredibly deep stabilizing for the entire globe and certainly for Europe.

2263
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:41,240
Speaker 2: But you do have to understand if you're going to

2264
01:59:41,280 --> 01:59:43,400
Speaker 2: strike some sort of a deal that is going to

2265
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:48,240
Speaker 2: be in any way lasting what he sees as having

2266
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,440
Speaker 2: been the provocations that led to this, so that you

2267
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:53,960
Speaker 2: do avoid a situation. This was kind of what Zelenski

2268
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:55,480
Speaker 2: was trying to say in the Oval office of like

2269
01:59:55,680 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 2: you can't just trust this dude, Like if he could

2270
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:00,960
Speaker 2: go back on his word at any time, so you

2271
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:04,440
Speaker 2: actually have to do something to secure some measure of

2272
02:00:04,440 --> 02:00:07,760
Speaker 2: what he sees as his interests. And you know, it's

2273
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:11,080
Speaker 2: very likely that that whatever that is continues to be

2274
02:00:11,320 --> 02:00:15,720
Speaker 2: unacceptable to the US even under a Trump administration. So

2275
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:19,360
Speaker 2: I think it's still very unclear. You know, I predicted

2276
02:00:19,400 --> 02:00:21,600
Speaker 2: after the Oval Office blow up that it was more

2277
02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:26,320
Speaker 2: theater than would result in like true fallout or shift

2278
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:28,640
Speaker 2: in the Trump administration's approach, and I think that that

2279
02:00:28,720 --> 02:00:30,160
Speaker 2: has proved to be correct.

2280
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:31,400
Speaker 4: Ultimately.

2281
02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:35,720
Speaker 2: You know, they've restarted the intelligence sharing, their shipping weapons again,

2282
02:00:36,560 --> 02:00:40,920
Speaker 2: they're working on their raw minerals deal. Like the plan

2283
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:44,600
Speaker 2: moves forward according to Pace, but I wanted to share

2284
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:46,280
Speaker 2: with you because it seems sort of a student some

2285
02:00:46,320 --> 02:00:48,600
Speaker 2: pieces of it already seemed to be coming true. A

2286
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:51,920
Speaker 2: prediction that from a Russian analyst that Michael Tracy had

2287
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:54,760
Speaker 2: put out on his Twitter feed. He said that US

2288
02:00:54,840 --> 02:00:57,600
Speaker 2: President Donald Trump's bid to secure a ceasefire along Ukraine's

2289
02:00:57,600 --> 02:00:59,560
Speaker 2: battle lines is going to fail. The American plan to

2290
02:00:59,560 --> 02:01:03,760
Speaker 2: stop the where ignores Russia's security concerns, disregards the root causes. Meanwhile,

2291
02:01:03,800 --> 02:01:06,520
Speaker 2: Moscow's conditions for peace, outlined by Putin in twenty twenty

2292
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:09,560
Speaker 2: four remain unacceptable to Washington, as they would effectively mean

2293
02:01:09,800 --> 02:01:12,600
Speaker 2: Kiev's capitulation and the West strategic defeat.

2294
02:01:13,400 --> 02:01:14,240
Speaker 4: He predicts that.

2295
02:01:14,160 --> 02:01:18,080
Speaker 2: The fighting will basically sort of like continue indefinitely. Trump

2296
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 2: will levy additional sanctions, as you said, he's already moving

2297
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:24,600
Speaker 2: in that direction. They'll probably ramp down the amount of

2298
02:01:24,680 --> 02:01:28,200
Speaker 2: aid that flows to Ukraine, and the Europeans will try

2299
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:29,800
Speaker 2: to step up and see if they can sort of

2300
02:01:29,840 --> 02:01:32,640
Speaker 2: fill that gap. On the battlefield, he predicts the tide

2301
02:01:32,680 --> 02:01:35,480
Speaker 2: will continue to shift in Russia's favor. Russian forces or

2302
02:01:35,480 --> 02:01:38,080
Speaker 2: expected to push Ukraine out of key regions. Ukraine will

2303
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,880
Speaker 2: mobilize younger and experience recruits to try to slow Russia's advances.

2304
02:01:42,280 --> 02:01:45,240
Speaker 2: There will be border incursions or symbelic strikes deep into

2305
02:01:45,320 --> 02:01:49,600
Speaker 2: Russian territory and attempted demoralize the Russian population, but ultimately

2306
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:52,760
Speaker 2: the battlefield dynamics will shift towards Russia. And then they

2307
02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:55,040
Speaker 2: say domestically, the US and its allies may push for

2308
02:01:55,080 --> 02:01:58,560
Speaker 2: elections in Ukraine, hope and replace Lenski, whose term expired already.

2309
02:01:58,840 --> 02:02:02,720
Speaker 2: That political reash might temporarily strengthen Keith's leadership will not

2310
02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:06,120
Speaker 2: address the underlying challenges of economic collapse and deteriorating living

2311
02:02:06,120 --> 02:02:09,760
Speaker 2: conditions for ordinary Ukrainians, and so listen, who knows what's

2312
02:02:09,760 --> 02:02:11,400
Speaker 2: going to happen. But I thought that was a fairly

2313
02:02:11,400 --> 02:02:15,080
Speaker 2: prescient analysis of how things may well play out. Where

2314
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:18,560
Speaker 2: there's this attempt to strike a deal. There are conditions

2315
02:02:18,600 --> 02:02:21,920
Speaker 2: on Putin's side that continue to be you know, unacceptable

2316
02:02:21,960 --> 02:02:25,880
Speaker 2: even to the Trump administration, where you know, Putin doesn't

2317
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:27,360
Speaker 2: have a lot of incentive to do a deal right

2318
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:29,160
Speaker 2: now because he can read the writing on the wall

2319
02:02:29,240 --> 02:02:32,160
Speaker 2: at that war of attrition increasingly you know, benefits him,

2320
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:35,800
Speaker 2: and you know, the Russian position will continue to strengthen

2321
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:38,000
Speaker 2: Viza VI the war, and so things just kind of

2322
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:39,600
Speaker 2: continue to grind on indefinitely.

2323
02:02:39,680 --> 02:02:40,640
Speaker 4: I think continues to.

2324
02:02:40,600 --> 02:02:45,680
Speaker 2: Be a very plausible possibility of where this thing ultimately heads.

2325
02:02:46,440 --> 02:02:48,760
Speaker 3: And they've obviously been trading missiles and drones over the

2326
02:02:48,760 --> 02:02:51,280
Speaker 3: course of the last couple of days, and significantly so

2327
02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:55,320
Speaker 3: Ukraine into Russia. But the other thing to remember, obviously

2328
02:02:55,400 --> 02:02:57,400
Speaker 3: is Kursk is going to be a huge piece of

2329
02:02:57,480 --> 02:03:02,640
Speaker 3: leverage from Ukraine as they talk about what territory belongs

2330
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:06,400
Speaker 3: to whom in the ceasefire negotiation. These things are so

2331
02:03:06,560 --> 02:03:10,080
Speaker 3: unpredictable from the Trump administration. Obviously we know that. I

2332
02:03:10,120 --> 02:03:13,280
Speaker 3: don't even need to say it aloud, basically, but you

2333
02:03:13,440 --> 02:03:16,640
Speaker 3: just really never know what Trump and Steve Witcoff end

2334
02:03:16,720 --> 02:03:20,240
Speaker 3: up walking out of a negotiation with because they're not

2335
02:03:21,480 --> 02:03:23,640
Speaker 3: they don't see themselves as being restricted by sort of

2336
02:03:23,680 --> 02:03:27,760
Speaker 3: the usual orthodoxies and conventions of these types of conversations,

2337
02:03:27,800 --> 02:03:30,680
Speaker 3: and certainly not with Russia. They're willing to talk to

2338
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:34,520
Speaker 3: Russia in ways that most conventional politicians, whether they're Republican

2339
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:38,760
Speaker 3: or Democrat, are not interested in doing so. Man, this

2340
02:03:38,800 --> 02:03:40,360
Speaker 3: will be an interesting one to watch over the next

2341
02:03:40,360 --> 02:03:42,960
Speaker 3: couple of days as witcough heads to Moscow.

2342
02:03:42,960 --> 02:03:46,360
Speaker 4: Crystal, Yes, indeed, all right, Well, it was.

2343
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:48,600
Speaker 3: A pleasure to have you here, and we got we

2344
02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:50,440
Speaker 3: got it Crystal and a little bit of Ryan, so

2345
02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:52,640
Speaker 3: it was really the best of both worlds, and we're

2346
02:03:52,640 --> 02:03:56,200
Speaker 3: basically joined. We were joined in spirit by Sager because

2347
02:03:56,200 --> 02:03:58,440
Speaker 3: we played like three clips of him, so it was

2348
02:03:58,480 --> 02:03:59,560
Speaker 3: sort of like the whole gang was.

2349
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:02,640
Speaker 4: Here by Sargar and Nettie. I think as much this.

2350
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:05,120
Speaker 3: Yes, well, it was great to see the White House

2351
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:07,840
Speaker 3: put him in the new Media seed. Obviously, Sagar is

2352
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:10,840
Speaker 3: an experienced season White House reporter, so to have him

2353
02:04:10,880 --> 02:04:14,200
Speaker 3: back in that routine was fantastic and.

2354
02:04:14,240 --> 02:04:16,360
Speaker 2: Well and he brought some He brought some honor to

2355
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 2: the new Media chair, which has been not the most

2356
02:04:19,200 --> 02:04:23,160
Speaker 2: honorable seat since it's ad then. So it's glad to see,

2357
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:25,960
Speaker 2: you know, him asking some some real questions there, and

2358
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:28,880
Speaker 2: you know, getting three questions too at the very top

2359
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:32,480
Speaker 2: is it's incredibly influential those positions and being able to

2360
02:04:32,480 --> 02:04:35,240
Speaker 2: get the administration on the record on those things.

2361
02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, people don't realize when you get the first questions

2362
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:39,400
Speaker 3: that means you're beating the networks to the punch. And

2363
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:42,160
Speaker 3: the networks like to ask questions that are perfectly calibrated

2364
02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 3: for TV clips. You know, it's one of those things

2365
02:04:44,840 --> 02:04:46,920
Speaker 3: you can't unsee once you figure out that's what they're doing.

2366
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:49,879
Speaker 3: So to have the early questions that the network's absolutely

2367
02:04:49,920 --> 02:04:51,960
Speaker 3: despise it because they were used to being at in

2368
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:54,320
Speaker 3: that position and it sends them down the list. You know,

2369
02:04:54,320 --> 02:04:57,080
Speaker 3: they have to go to their like tenth question that

2370
02:04:57,120 --> 02:04:59,200
Speaker 3: they came into the briefing with instead of the first

2371
02:04:59,200 --> 02:05:02,000
Speaker 3: and second ones. Gets them the really juicy clips. So

2372
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:05,560
Speaker 3: Soccer definitely did us proud, and you know, did proud

2373
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:08,000
Speaker 3: to the theory, at least the theory of having the

2374
02:05:08,080 --> 02:05:10,600
Speaker 3: new media seats. So we were glad to be able

2375
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:12,800
Speaker 3: to react to some of his questions today. Andy Chrystal,

2376
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:15,080
Speaker 3: thank you just for being here. It's always a delight

2377
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:18,000
Speaker 3: to do the show with you, and it was a

2378
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:18,520
Speaker 3: lot of fun.

2379
02:05:19,120 --> 02:05:22,160
Speaker 2: Yes, my pleasure always fun. I always enjoyed and I'll

2380
02:05:22,200 --> 02:05:24,560
Speaker 2: be back in again. So guys, sorry if you're sick

2381
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:26,760
Speaker 2: of me, but I'll be back again for a normal

2382
02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:28,240
Speaker 2: show with Soccer tomorrow.

2383
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:30,560
Speaker 4: So we will see you guys then see.

2384
02:05:30,440 --> 02:05:33,120
Speaker 3: Then Breakypoints dot com for premier membership. We will be

2385
02:05:33,160 --> 02:05:34,400
Speaker 3: back with more tomorrow.