1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Kirk. 3 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: There's Chuck Bryant. Whoa, And this is stuff you should have. 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: You've been working on your Chewbacca friend. No, no, it 5 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: did sound like Chewbacca, especially that last bit. Now, I 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: haven't been working on at all. It's all natural talent. 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: Never had a lesson, as Ferris Bueler said, do you 8 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 1: remember Ferris Bueler. They came out fifty sixty years ago, 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: back when we were cool. I was supposed to do 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: that on the movie Crush, and then my guests couldn't 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: make it, and so I have like this great document 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: of notes prepared all about Ferris Spueler's sitting there going 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: to waste. Oh you should just read them, read through them. 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: On one of the notes, Yeah, Ferris Bueler sociopath or 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: cool teenager? Would you come up with? Well? Udgment always 16 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: has this sort of rant that, uh, Ferris's associopath. Upon 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: looking back, M yeah, there's like, come on, man, there 18 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: used to be like a whole blog for a little 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: while about about that. They would like analyze film, like 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: famous films like Top Gun. They basically pointed out how 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: Maverick was like this terrible person who got his friend 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: killed and felt like no, no responsibility for it and everything. People. Yeah, yeah, 23 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty eye opening. It's paradigm shifting, I guess you 24 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: could say, and I think that's appropriate that we're talking 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: about paradigm shifting blogs because there's a lot of paradigm 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: shift involved it today's topic, and there's a lot of 27 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: blogs too, it turns out about rewilding. Yeah, it's all 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: over the place. Uh, it is, And we need to 29 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: thank our old pal Julia Layton makes an appearance here 30 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: for the first time in a while. Yeah, welcome back 31 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: Lates helping us with this one. And um, I thought 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: it was interesting because think you and I both I'm 33 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and speak for you. I think we 34 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: both agree that rewilding the concept of rewilding is pretty awesome. 35 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: Pretty awesome, yes, But as evidence from even some of 36 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: the stuff that Julia sent us, like there are some 37 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: negative examples of like rewilding that didn't go well, but 38 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: I would argue, like, that's not even rewilding, and calling 39 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: it that is just hurts the cause. And then you 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: sent me a thing that where a guy said, Hey, 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: calling things that that aren't rewolding hurts the cause. Yeah. Yeah, 42 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: I was like, I need to back chuck up today. 43 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: I know he's thinking about something. I'm gonna send him 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: something that backs it up. And I did. But rewilding, 45 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: I guess we should just define so people are not 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: angry at us for rolling that out twenty minutes in. 47 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: But it is a term. When was it coined here? 48 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: I've seen all over the place. Somebody claims eighty five. 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: Another dude claims that he coined in nine two, but 50 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: I think the first time it appeared in the scientific 51 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: literature was some old hippie said that she coined it 52 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: in sixty seven. Mm hmm, yeah, the same hippie that 53 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: claimed to have coined will turn it up. Man. Uh. 54 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: But here's the deal, and you know, we can get 55 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: into the particulars, which we will, but generally, rewild ng 56 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: is and its simplest form kind of returning nature back, 57 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: turning it back over to nature to take care of itself, because, 58 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: as Julia points out very aptly, like nature didn't need 59 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: humans to come in and like all the things that 60 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: you see human humans do for nature, it's because we 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: had messed something up with nature. It's not because nature 62 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: was like, oh, we need you to step in. Like 63 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: if humans had never been around, nature would be just fine. Yeah. 64 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: So the point of rewilding is to designate huge swaths 65 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of earth all over the earth, huge tracts of land. Yeah, 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: to to basically remove ourselves from and just let nature 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: do its thing, because we just we through everything up, 68 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: even when we try not to, we screw everything up. 69 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: We can overmanage, we can undermanage, we can mismanage. There 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: are very few things that we properly manage. And that's 71 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: kind of like what's given the idea, the concept of 72 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: rewilding like such a like such great cachet, like in 73 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: the ecological community, both the scientific part of it and 74 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: also like this the popular part of it. It's it's 75 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: saying like, well, then let's just get humans out of 76 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: the out of the management business and let nature do 77 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: its thing. I think it's wonderful idea, it is. And 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: you know, it can uh, it can encompass you know, 79 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: like plant growth and just kind of simple things like that, 80 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: like where that things were once mowed down and mulched 81 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: and like you know, quote unquote cared for by humans, 82 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: letting that kind of run wild again all the way 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: to the most extreme examples, which is something we touched 84 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: on in the National Park episode that Julia brought up 85 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: here was like reintroducing a carnivore to the scene that 86 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: had long been gone, like the wolves of Yellowstone and 87 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: letting them do their thing. And that's actually kind of 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: a big part of one part of rewilding. Yeah, so 89 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: you bring up something that you kind of reference what 90 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: I sent you earlier about UM misusing the term like 91 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: it does encompass all of those things. But the only 92 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: reason rewilding encompasses all of those things because the scientific 93 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: community is still trying to figure out exactly what rewilding is. 94 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: They're trying to figure out the definition, they're trying to 95 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: figure out what is not rewild ing UM. They're trying 96 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: to figure out like what the best practices and best 97 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: steps forward are for rewilding UM. And because they're still 98 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: figuring it out, and because it's such a buzzword, anybody 99 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: who's doing anything that has to do with restoration, whether 100 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, reintroducing some voles into a place 101 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: where there's already voles um or you know, yeah, like 102 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: you were saying, like adding like some kind of g 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: asid raising the mower height in a park to let 104 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: more more of like the groundcover flower. Like Currently that's 105 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: technically rewilding, but really that's that's If you give it 106 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: five more years, probably those things will not be considered rewilding, 107 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: will have a much more coherent definition of it, and 108 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: hopefully a lot more data to back up the claims 109 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: that rewilding makes. Because the big problem with it is 110 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: it's a really great idea that we just need to 111 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: know more about. Uh we're jumping in feet first, and 112 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: that that can be It could be dangerous, as we'll see, 113 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: but I think more often than not it could just 114 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: be a failure and it could lose popular support. It'll 115 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: it'll make people think it just doesn't work if we 116 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: do it the wrong way a bunch of times to 117 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: start right, and there are some really bad examples for 118 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: free wilding. Well again, I don't even like calling it 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: rewilding because like one example that well you might as 120 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: well talk a little bit about a bad example is 121 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: uh South Georgia, not Georgia that we live in, but 122 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: Georgia and Europe. There's the reindeer in South Georgia where 123 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: there were whalers on this uh. I think it was 124 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: on an island, and they're like, well, you know, we 125 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: love to eat reindeer, and so we're just gonna put 126 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of reindeer on this kind of smallish island 127 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: so we can hunt them as whalers and have something 128 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: to eat. And it went terribly and you know, years later, 129 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: I think they had to just go in and like 130 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: slaughter five thousand reindeer. That's not rewilding, that's just that's 131 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: a dumb idea, which is like bringing in an invasive 132 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: species and plunking it down there. That's not rewolding at all. 133 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: But it gets thrown in there as like there's a 134 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: bad example of rewilding. It's like it's not rewilding, right, 135 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: and it wasn't ever intended to be rewilding. It took 136 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: place at the turn of the century, and I think 137 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: South Georgia island is down by the Falklands if I 138 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: remember correctly, like below South America. So they brought it 139 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: in as like a like a food source because like 140 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: these these Swedes or Norwegians were like, there's nothing down 141 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: here that we've ever eaten before we need some reindeer 142 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: in this place. And they managed it just fine, Like 143 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: they hunted the reindeer and the reindeer apparently we're well 144 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: checked or well managed. But then when they stopped hunting 145 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: the reindeer and let nature take over, basically what we 146 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: would do with rewilding, the reindeer ran wild, and uh, 147 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: things just went out of hand really really quickly. So 148 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: it was not an example of rewilding by anyone's definition, 149 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: but it still serves as a cautionary tale about what 150 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: can happen when you do something like just back out 151 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: of the picture. That we do need to know more 152 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: about what our role is to set up an ecosystem 153 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: before we take our hands off of it, you know 154 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Yeah, And also Julia points out, um 155 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: again very aptly, that like when something like this hits 156 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: the news, then you're going to have animal activists and 157 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: environmentalists when they hear the word rewilding projects say we 158 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: can't do that. That led to the death the slaughter 159 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: of five thousand reindeer. Uh So it just gives it 160 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: all a bad name. So hopefully we'll try and give 161 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: it a better name. Yeah, because again I think it's 162 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: a really great idea. We just need to know more 163 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: about it. We need more science, everybody, So we talk 164 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: about bio diversity. Yeah, I think we should, because, um, 165 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: that's pretty much the basis of this whole thing, the 166 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: whole idea behind rewilding, the whole reason it has so 167 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: much supporters because it's become painfully clear that the damage 168 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: that we've done to the Earth is altering ecosystems, and 169 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: pretty much unfavorable ways. I don't think there's any way 170 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: that we've damaged an ecosystem where we're like, oh, that 171 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: actually worked out for the better, maybe for humans and conveniences, 172 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: but yeah, but even still, now we've reached Yeah, maybe 173 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: that was true like thirty forty years ago. Now we've 174 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: reached the time where it's it's time to pay the piper. 175 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: And now even for us, we're suffering the consequences of 176 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: damaging and altering ecosystems so dramatically that they can no 177 00:09:55,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: longer function. And the point behind rewilding is to re 178 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: established biodiversity in large parts so that humans and other 179 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: animals can survive on planet Earth in the next hundred years. Right, 180 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: And then you know, when you look into the more 181 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: I guess level headed descriptors of what rewilding can be 182 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: and sort of the tenants of them, which we can 183 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: get too later and full it's not hey, let's let's 184 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: dump a bunch of mountain lions into Central Park. It's 185 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: it's got to it has to work with humans as well. 186 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: But as we'll see, there's there's a lot of places 187 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: is where there are not humans and this is mainly 188 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: what they're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, and then then in 189 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: those places where there are some humans or whatever, it's 190 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: like we'll just we'll get them out all the way. Yeah, 191 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: but it has to work together. Like unfortunately, you know, 192 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: like it or not, humans are part of the ecosystem 193 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: now and it has to work for everyone. But right 194 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: now humans are just making it work for them in 195 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: many cases. Yeah. And then so even beyond also you 196 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: raise a good point, even beyond also the the fact 197 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: that it's got to work for us, that we can't 198 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: just coexist with mountain lions in Central Park. Um. It 199 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: it has to to work for us in the sense 200 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: that like a lot of the places that are being 201 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: like pointed to is like prime areas to be rewilded 202 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: if you like, if you look over to the right 203 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: a little bit. There's some like sheepherder. They're saying, Um, 204 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: this is my land that I use my sheep to 205 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: graze on, and sheep herds grazing is pretty much the 206 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: antithesis of rewilding, So what are we going to do 207 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: with that guy? So there's also one of the one 208 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: of the things that they're figuring out with rewilding is 209 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: how to evolve from a at least like um and 210 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: equally involved the community or the people who are going 211 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: to be most affected by this, if not from a 212 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: bottom up. Everyone's saying do not do top down, don't 213 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: don't figure this out in the city and then come 214 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: and tell the sheep farmers what to do. Like, that's 215 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: not going to work. I think I saw somebody say, 216 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: especially in Scotland, that is not going to work. Yeah, 217 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, in a Scotland, I know 218 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah. Oh boy, I had like this long 219 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: string of Scottish obscenities. I was about ready to belt 220 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: out and my worst accent earned brew. Um. So, as 221 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: far as biodiversity goes, Julia put it away that I 222 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: think it really kind of hits it on the nose 223 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: it is. It's not just the quantity and variety of 224 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: species and individuals. It's really the interactions within the ecosystem 225 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: and how they all work together. That's what bio diversity is. 226 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: And ecosystems and bio diversity, they're meant to fluctuate like 227 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: things happen in nature naturally, and species may dwindle here 228 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: and there when resources are a little more scarce, and 229 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: sometimes they're not thriving like they should, but they're still 230 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: built for that. What they're not built for is human 231 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: triggered biodiversity loss. And this is what we've seen humans 232 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: do over and over in time and time again, and 233 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: that just makes ecosystems kind of crumble under pressure to 234 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: deliver and then do their thing. Yeah, and there's just 235 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: it's unequivocal that, um that we have are facing terrible 236 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: a loss of biodiversity all over Earth. The Living Plant 237 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: Index said that between nineteen seventy and two thousand and twelve, 238 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: fifty eight percent of the world's fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds, 239 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: and mammals all disappeared, like just gone goodbye, all of 240 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: those species. Yeah, so um like that when that happens, 241 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: like you're saying these these The way that that that 242 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: UM ecosystems have like evolved over time is that like 243 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: they function as a as a net, as a web, 244 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: as like a bunch of interconnected parts that create something 245 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: greater as a whole, and then that whole works together 246 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: with other similar holes to create something greater, and it 247 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: keeps going on to this macro scale until you reach 248 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: like planet level. So you're going from like you know, 249 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: dormouse to planet level, all following basically the same path. 250 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: And when you lose biodiversity, you're bound to lose species 251 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: that are performing really important, really valuable functions that affect 252 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: UM and support a bunch of other different kinds of species. 253 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: So you lose those other species, but then you also 254 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: lose what are called the services that that ecosystem provides, 255 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: everything from preventing floods and erosion to preventing forest fires wildfires, 256 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: um um speeding up the carbon sequestions sequestration, um speeding 257 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: up oxygen production, like all these things that that the 258 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: planet needs to live. We evolved on planet Earth, so 259 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: we need those two and we've also, whether we realize 260 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: it or not, built our economy taking those things for granted. 261 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: UM and so fortunately the UM Office of Economic Development 262 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: UM put together a paper that cited a hundred and 263 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: twenty five to hundred and forty trillion dollars worth of 264 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: these services are produced by Nature per year. They put 265 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: a number on it, which, on its face it sounds 266 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: like a lot of money, right. It is the global 267 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: gross domestic product all of the money produced by all 268 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: the goods and services produced on planet Earth in only 269 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: equal eight five trillion. So on the high end, Nature 270 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: produces services that are worth nearly twice of global GDP 271 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: in a whole year. And so now you're starting to 272 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: bring in the conservatives. They're like, okay, I hadn't consider that. 273 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that too. So there's there's basically no 274 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: one who wouldn't benefit from a healthier, more bio diverse planet. 275 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: And I feel like we've reached the point for a break. 276 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: What do you think right after I say one quick 277 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: soapboxy thing, it's sort of echoes back to what I 278 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: pointed out in the Yellowstone episode. Is this this wonderful 279 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: macro long view of the world that you embrace and 280 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: I embrace. That's uh, that's the problem because in the 281 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: short term, people like sure but what about this one 282 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: thing I can do? Now? What about all this crypto 283 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: I can mind today? Uh? Nuts getting into all that. 284 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Good lord, but um, people need to take a longer 285 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: view of things, and I think humans are just unfortunately 286 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: want to look at the the five bucks right in 287 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: front of their face that they can make, you know, chuck. 288 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: It feels a lot like we're waking up, you and me, Yes, 289 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: But I think I think that's a big point. I 290 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: think you and I are very mainstream people, and I 291 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: think we're waking up even more than we had before. 292 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: And I think that that's usually reflective of people in general. 293 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: I think that people are starting to wake up more 294 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: as a group, as a collective, and you just see 295 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: so much less like greenwashing and PRBs, like people don't 296 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: buy it any more. People. I think people are starting 297 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: to understand on the whole it's how important this is. 298 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: I think younger generations continually do that through through time, 299 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's happening. So that's a good thing. 300 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: And I agree, g Z, we should we should take 301 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: that break. Go gen Z and whatever follows you. I 302 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: don't even know what my daughter is. I don't either. 303 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they've named that generation yet, because 304 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: right now it's Generation very selfish, but that's very young 305 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: six years old. Yeah, generation temper tantrum. She's not much 306 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: of a tantrumber. But anyway, uh, let's take that break 307 00:17:40,359 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: and we'll be right back. Okay, Hey, before we get going, 308 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: can I say one quick thing, and this is I 309 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: am always very sad when I see that, like Jogger 310 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: in California, Southern California has attacked in Mall by mountain lion, 311 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: Like that is a tragedy for that family. Um, but 312 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: my favorite thing is when those stories end with and 313 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: that's what happened, and that's too bad, and that's a 314 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: mountain lion doing what a mountain lion does and not 315 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: and they hunted it down and killed it. Yeah yeah, 316 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, speaking of releasing mountainins into Central Park, 317 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: which I doubt if they were over there anyway, Well, 318 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: I think that's that's one of the big tenants of 319 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: rewild ng is is like there there's a push that 320 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: of converting. So I was talking about those sheep sheep 321 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: herders in Scotland and what are they gonna do? Well, 322 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: some people say, well, you can actually there's stuff called 323 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: nature based economies, and you can change what you do 324 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: to make money. UM, if you are getting into rewilding 325 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: your land, you could start basically holding safari's and that's UM. 326 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: That's that. That illustrates two things. One, there's a lot 327 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: of money to be made. I've seen, UM, I've seen 328 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: that some farmers have reported making as much, if not 329 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: more than they did farming that they do now that 330 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: they're doing like eco tourism on their old on their 331 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 1: land that's been rewild And it's interesting sure. But but 332 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: then also it also shows you the role of humans 333 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: in this like we're meant to be like guided on 334 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: a tour in a very like um arranged visit to 335 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: these areas. It's not like this area is wild, just 336 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: do whatever you want in it. It's extremely well managed. 337 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: But what you're managing in this case is the humans, 338 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 1: not the wildlife, not the floora of the fall on it. 339 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: You're keeping people out, no hunting, no farming, no grazing 340 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: your livestock, no just like going camping there. I'm not 341 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: sure about that part, but I get the impression that 342 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: humans are meant to just be kept out of it 343 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: rather than the animal populations are are managed, it's the 344 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: humans that are Yeah. I think I don't know how 345 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: wilders feel about it, but as a camper, I think 346 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: if you do it right, then you shouldn't be harming 347 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: the ecosystems that you're in. But someone might argue that like, hey, man, 348 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: just setting a tent up like on the ground harms 349 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah. I mean I guess if you zoom 350 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: in far enough with a microscope you could probably back 351 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: that up. Yeah. Like I crushed a worm with my 352 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: big body, so then I slept in a hammock. And 353 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: what are you going to give that worms family? Now? Uh? 354 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: A small sum of money there, maybe some dirt. They 355 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: would probably prefer dirt, especially if it was really good dirt, 356 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: soil or soil from my body. Yep. Just take off 357 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: your clothes and roll on the ground and say I'm 358 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: sorry worm. And then they said, well, and he just 359 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: killed two more of us. Uh. Let's humans have to 360 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: remove themselves from the wilderness. Let's move on, please. Uh. 361 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: We should talk about the three CS because this was 362 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: sort of an early descriptor on rewilding, which is cores, corridors, 363 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: and carnivores, and the idea is that. And this has 364 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: a lot to do with like reintroducing wolves the Yellowstone carnivores. 365 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: Having an apex predator in an area is awesome and 366 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: super healthy for that area. Uh. They control and they 367 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: regulate that food chain like a champ. And they need 368 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: a lot of room though, and so uh it's called 369 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: a core reserve like their area. If they're gonna thrive 370 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: a lot, and when that core reserve shrinks, then all 371 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: of a sudden they're isolated. That's gonna harm them. And 372 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: then that's gonna have that trickle down effect that we 373 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 1: talk a lot about. Uh. Here on planet Earth, now, 374 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: there are a lot of cores that are too small. 375 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: So the ideas, all right, why don't we connect these 376 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: cores with corridors to allow them to keep moving? And 377 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: this can look anything like I sit you that one 378 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: thing I know that we've talked about these before. It's 379 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: the coolest thing when they make like a a land 380 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: bridge for animals to cross a highway without getting killed 381 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: or go under like an overpass or an underpass like 382 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: that could be a corridor at its most sort of 383 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: fundamental or like literally sort of rejoining land that was 384 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: not joined before because of human interaction. Yeah, there's a 385 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: big there's a big push for that because yeah, there's 386 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: plenty of cores around, but if they're disconnected, then there's 387 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: not going to be enough um to support like a 388 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: healthy ecosystem, and those like apex predators are going to 389 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,719 Speaker 1: get stressed and it's going to stress out the whole ecosystem. 390 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: They don't have anywhere to go. But if you connect 391 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: two small ones through a corridor, all of a sudden 392 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: they can kind of go back and forth and you know, 393 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: the one, this one small place regenerates in their absence, 394 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: and then they go to the other one, and then 395 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: they go back to the first one, and the second 396 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: one regenerates while they're gone like that. That's a really 397 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: great idea because it also kind of shows that spirit 398 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: of like not giving ups, like, oh, the cores are 399 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: so small, what are we gonna do? I guess nothing. 400 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: It's like no, you connect the course and then you 401 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: can also look at it an even bigger scale, like 402 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: a good example of a core. The ideal version of 403 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: a core, or close to it, is an American National park, 404 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: Like you can't do anything in the national park, but 405 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 1: basically go in camp and and visit and that's about it, right. 406 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: Um the other national parks I was reading about ones 407 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: in in England at least like you can hunt their 408 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: managed for like grouse hunting and deer hunting, and like 409 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: they're not like American national parks. So um, the American 410 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: version is a really great example of kind of what 411 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: we're talking about re wilding. And then imagine if you 412 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: connected Yellowstone to Yosemite with a wildlife corridor, right, is 413 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: that even possible? Well, yeah, they're on the same continent 414 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: so effectively as possible. Yeah, you're gonna have to move 415 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: some some powerful landowners like Ted Turner. He's probably not 416 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: going to give up his land willingly, although I don't 417 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: know maybe he will. Um, there there has to be 418 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: like a shift in how people view the importance of 419 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: wilderness and nature and that's kind of part and parcel 420 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: with the concept every wilding too. Yeah, and a lot 421 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: of this research that we looked at comes from the 422 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: UK and we'll talk about that more later. But um, 423 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 1: it comes down to like a very smack I'm sorry, 424 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: a micro effort of going and convincing one landowner at 425 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: a time almost to do stuff like this, and they're 426 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: having some successes in the uplands of of the UK 427 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: where that you know, kind of one at a time, 428 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: some landowners are agreeing like all right, this is what 429 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: I can I'll agree to do and for the good 430 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: of everybody. Yeah, it's kind of cool, but it is 431 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: a you know, it's a pretty slow process. Like you're 432 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: not gonna see rewild ing on on the evening news 433 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: every night. It's a pretty I don't know about small movement, 434 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: but it's it's not mainstream, I don't think in the 435 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: in the consciousness no, but in the ecological community it's 436 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: like basically being touted as the future of ecology. So hot, 437 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: so um. The three c's, especially with the carnivores featured, 438 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: that's um, that's basically descriptive of one of the two 439 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: general umbrella categories for rewilding, and that would be trophic rewilding, 440 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: which will talk a little more about. But let's talk 441 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: about passive, real wild and kind of the other end 442 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Yeah, I mean this is kind of 443 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: uh taking a good look at where, um, where you 444 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: should do this, Like where to start, like what what's 445 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: a good area to even try this and where you 446 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: can kind of go unchecked and where it will benefit 447 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: people as well as the ecosystems around there. But the 448 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: two main goals of the passive rewilding are too and 449 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: this is something humans do a lot. Like there's a 450 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: lot of wildlife protection going on. So the first part 451 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: of passive rewilding is kind of that is letting wildlife 452 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: rebound and kind of get back, you know, get its 453 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: its land legs back under itself. Uh. And that means 454 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: like no hunting and stuff like that or hunting restrictions. Uh, 455 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: and then letting that land grow back together like you 456 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: talked about. So animals can you know, go where they 457 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: once could go, like just increasing their territories and just 458 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: saying here, nature, uh, do what you will with yourself. 459 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 1: And that sounds super dirty. We won't look we're walking away. 460 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: We had new idea nature would do that, right, oh god. 461 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: So um with passive rewilding, there's there's they're trying to 462 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: figure out what the initial steps are because in a 463 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: lot of these areas we've done a lot, it's just 464 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: kind of visible the city slickers like you and me. 465 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: Um to alter the ecosystem the landscape, so you know, 466 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: we would have to go in and like remove dams 467 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: that we've built there. Um, we would have to fill 468 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: in canals, UM, just anything anyway that we've altered or 469 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: put a human touch on the landscape. Um, we would 470 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: need to basically undo before we left, or else they 471 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: would still be an altered ecosystem that could be really problematic. UM. 472 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: So if we just basically kind of restore it then 473 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: and then we walk away, the idea is that it 474 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: will take care of itself faster. But like you're saying, 475 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: this is not a it's not a fast process. Like 476 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 1: some of these projects that are being proposed to have 477 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: timelines of a couple of hundred years before they reach 478 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: where they're supposed to be. It's hard. It is, it is, 479 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 1: But again I think it's getting easier and easier there. 480 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: And part of the PASSI rewilding is what I was 481 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: talking about in the uplands of England. Uh. That's where 482 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: they're kind of going one farmer at a time and saying, hey, 483 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: you know of England's drinking water comes from these uplands, 484 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: and you know, I think when you start describing uh 485 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: without maybe I think you can go too far and 486 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 1: scare people in the other direction with the doom and gloom. 487 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: But if you very just sort of calmly lay out 488 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,640 Speaker 1: some facts and figures, I think that can wait people 489 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: at sometimes. Yes, and the UK super into this in 490 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: no small part because of an ecologist Harry and Megan 491 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: named George mombiatt. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly. He 492 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: wrote a book in two thirteen called Feral that basically 493 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: called for rewilding and he really popularized it over there 494 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: and since then it's really started to kind of take 495 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: off and they have really lofty goals. Um, they have 496 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: a goal of rewilding five of England's land. I believe it. 497 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: It's just coming up quick and five percent. It's a lot. 498 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: It's about out a million acres and they put in 499 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: perspective there like there's a quarter of that is in 500 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: like football fields in England. So really is that that much? 501 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: Like if you're daunted by that idea, um, And but 502 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: that's still in eight years, converting it to to to 503 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: a rewilded state or starting to is pretty ambitious. Yeah. 504 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: I think, Um, you sent me that one thing that 505 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: was really cool where they sort of analyze, and this 506 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: is from a UK side, I think, where they analyze 507 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: like someone who might poop poo. This say is do 508 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: we even have the space to do this kind of thing, Like, 509 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, we can't turn our cities over again to 510 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: the to the mountain lions and just let everything grow wild. 511 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: And that's not what they're talking about, but that one website, 512 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 1: I can't remember which one it was, but talking about 513 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: if you could traverse the entire UK in one day, yeah, England, Scotland, 514 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: Wales and Northern Ireland. That of the land that you 515 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: would find you would not see men, people or buildings. 516 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: You would only spend about an hour and forty five 517 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: minutes of that twenty four hours traversing all of the UK, 518 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: moving through urban spaces. And some of those urban spaces 519 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: even have green spaces, obviously not rewilded, but green space nonetheless. 520 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: And of the population of the UK lives on six 521 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: percent of the land mass, so in other words, there 522 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: is a lot of land out there to be rewilded. 523 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean, you know, throwing wild animals in the 524 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: middle of the city, right, It's the opposite throwing the 525 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: humans out of the wilderness. Exactly. You go over there 526 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: and build your city life where you don't breathe fresh 527 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: air and you don't go outside and things like that. Well, 528 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: some of the more radical proposals for rewild ng is 529 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: like giving over you know, like nine tenths of the 530 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: United States to wilderness and basically just pointing out, like 531 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: how many more people you can pack into the urban 532 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: centers of like the East Coast and the US coast 533 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: and just like leave the middle alone as wilderness. I 534 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: haven't seen that supported by many people. I think probably 535 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: the guy who keeps promoting that, keeps getting told to 536 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: be quiet by the other ecologists, is going to scare 537 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: off the normals. You know, American suburbs are very big 538 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: and important, right, but it does it does really point 539 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: out to like, you know, there's there's people out there, 540 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: and we have there we have to take their interests 541 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: into consideration. And one of the things that I kept 542 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: seeing pointed out in the UK is apparently after Brexit, 543 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: the farm subsidies for farms that that could not support 544 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: themselves through their own production, um like like it is 545 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: in the US, and I'm sure Australia too, they were 546 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: heavily subsidized by the government to make up that that 547 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: that gap, and then after Brexit, apparently those things are 548 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: beginning slash left and right, and so people have been saying, Okay, well, 549 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: if we're not going to be giving them farm subsidies, 550 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: what if we change the purpose of the subsidies from 551 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, farming, to you wilding land instead. If these 552 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: farms aren't producing that well anyway, and we can still 553 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: produce enough food, that's a very important point without these farms, 554 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: and in fact, some of these farms would actually be 555 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: way more valuable as untouched wilderness. Um, then maybe it 556 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: would make sense to take that money and converted into 557 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: that instead. And then you also have you've also taken 558 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: care of the person problem because they're still being supported 559 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: like they need to be. But at the same time, 560 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: they also don't have to move. They just can't graze 561 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,120 Speaker 1: their sheep anymore. Just don't graze sheep anymore, and you're 562 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: gonna make the same amount of money. And you can 563 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: take tourists on wilderness safari's as a side gig. And 564 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: I just pictured groundskeeper Willie staring us down from yeah yeah, 565 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 1: and then getting on this tractor that pulls us along 566 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: and point out the red deer just hopping all over 567 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: the place on his rewilded land. Or he could just 568 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: give us the one of the great groundskeeper Willie lines 569 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: of all time from one of the uh Halloween episodes 570 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: when he was Freddy Krueger. Do you remember that one? Yeah, 571 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: of course, and I'm done with you. They're gonna need 572 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: to come postmortem. So great, that's a good one, one 573 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: of my favorite lines. Um. So, a lot of stuff 574 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: we were just talking about falls under the pass of rewilding. Uh, 575 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: we've hit on trophic rewilding. But within that, they're like, 576 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: it kind of depends on how hardcore of an environmentalist 577 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: you're talking to. There's something called plist to scene rewilding 578 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: where they're like, hey, human disturbance started at the last 579 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: ice age, and that should be our goal is to 580 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: kind of like introduce if not uh wooly mammoth's like 581 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: maybe a descendant of the wooly mammoth because they're not 582 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: around anymore. And so you get some sort of other people. 583 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know about how he did the 584 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: arguments get but other people are like, pliest, the scene 585 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: is really too uh we should really kind of move 586 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: from that, like forward from there and think more along 587 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: lines of the Wolves of Yellowstone than these huge megafauna. Right, 588 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: So some people say, no, the mega faun are are important. Yeah, 589 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: And the people who are proponents of places scene rewilding 590 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: um say that it's um. The reason that they've they've 591 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: chosen that point is because they're they're suggesting that, like, 592 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: if we go that far back, we could probably defend 593 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: ourselves in the planet against climate change that much more 594 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: quickly or more robustly, I guess is a better way 595 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: to say. It's not like they're just doing it out 596 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: of sentimentality, Like there's a there's an intellectual bent to it, 597 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: like and that is that we basically need to go 598 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: that far back to counteract the damage we've done in 599 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: the last like two years senti mentality. You know. So 600 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: there's a problem with palist to scene rewilding the chuck 601 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: and that is a lot of those animals are extinct, Yeah, 602 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: like the William emmoth. Yeah. Okay, so what are you 603 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: gonna do if you want to recreate the place to 604 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: see on the American Midwest. Let's say every state in 605 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: the Midwest agrees to move eastward or westward, and they're 606 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: giving up all of their land over to rewilding, and 607 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: we've all agreed it was placed to see rewilding. Lord, 608 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: are we going to rewild it with if there's no 609 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: such thing as a woolly mammoth? Maybe, but elephants have 610 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: evolved in the last ten and twelve thousand years to 611 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: um to to live around equatorial Africa, if I'm not mistaken, 612 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: So are they going to do well in Kansas? And 613 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: then the same thing for the saber tooth tiger or actually, 614 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't think they call him anymore. I think it's 615 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: a sabre tooth cat. Maybe. Um all of their families 616 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: totally extinct. There's no descendants of the saber tooth cats 617 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: that are alive today. So what are we gonna do? 618 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 1: Put mountain lions out there. We're gonna put actual tigers 619 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 1: out there, are regular like African lions, and are we're 620 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: gonna move them over to Kansas? And then the larger problem, Chuck, 621 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: The larger problem is this, those animals, as big and 622 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: scary and ferocious as they are, are kind of pew 623 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: compared to the actual Pleistocene megafauna, like a sabretooth cat, 624 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: And it's not clear that they would be up to 625 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: the task of managing enormous ecosystems like that, just because 626 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: of their smaller size. Yeah. So there's a lot of 627 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: problems with pleistocene wilding and bring back the megaladon for 628 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: the oceans. Yeah. Uh no, there are a lot of 629 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: problems with that. Uh. And you're sort of talking about 630 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: you mentioned the top down control, uh, and that is 631 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: that theory that these you know, if you bring in 632 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: an apex predator, it can really uh, it can be 633 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 1: a really good thing. That the cascade of interactions that 634 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: it can trigger is can be vast. But you know, 635 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: that's that's trophic rewilding. It worked out pretty well for 636 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: the wolves and Yellowstone, uh, and the beavers that followed, 637 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: and the birds and the fish that followed because of 638 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 1: the beaver. So it's a it's it's always a sternling 639 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: example that people bring up. Yeah, So just to button 640 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: that up, you've got passive rewilding, which is basically like 641 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: just trying to get rid of your damns and bridges 642 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: and stuff and then leave. And then the trophic rewilding 643 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: is where you're selectively putting back animals that used to 644 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: play a role in that ecosystem or are related to 645 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: ones that used to play a role, right and then um, 646 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: with a focus on those apex predators because they have 647 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: so much control over the ecosystems that they live in, 648 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: and that that one is way more involved and needs 649 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: way more thought before we start doing that. Yeah, should 650 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: we take a break. Yeah, alright, we're gonna will gonna jeez, 651 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna take our final break, and um, we'll talk 652 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: about some of the issues with rewilding and some of 653 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: the examples and some of the tenants. How about that. 654 00:37:51,760 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: That sounds great? So earlier on we talked about one 655 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: bad example of what I don't even think is rewilding 656 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: with those reindeer uh in South Georgia. Uh. There are 657 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: other examples. There was one. UM. Because you know, people 658 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: will point to stats people to say this isn't a 659 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 1: good idea. We'll say that, hey, the failure rate for 660 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 1: introductions and reintroduction introductions and nature is higher than se 661 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: and we don't even really have a lot of data 662 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: if this works out anyway, and sent pretty high. And 663 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,800 Speaker 1: look at the um look about what Look at what 664 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 1: happened in Argentina in the nineteen forties when they brought 665 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: these Canadian beavers in and they ran wild and destroyed 666 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: the forest. People who know what they're talking about was say, 667 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: that's an invasive species, and when the beaver and yellowstone 668 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: eat the willow tree, the willow tree grows back. When 669 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: they eat these beech trees here in Argentina, they don't 670 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: grow back, So you just have a wasteland. It's not 671 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: dropping invasive species down into another place where they were 672 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: never supposed to be to begin with. Yeah, it's supposed 673 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: to be a little more thought out than that. That, Like, 674 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: like I was saying before the break, like these are 675 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: carefully selected and carefully thought out, or they're meant to 676 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: be um animals that are that fil specific niches in 677 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: the ecosystem that you're trying to restore. That's right, not 678 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: dropping beavers in South America, Canadian beavers no less. Yeah. 679 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: One thing that really spoke to me was in that 680 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: additional material that you sent over. I think it was 681 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: the four Tenants Rewilding Britain. I think was the website. Uh, 682 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: and therefore tenants um are pretty self explanatory, but one 683 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: part of part two really spoke to me. The first 684 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: one is support people in nature together. The second one 685 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: is let nature lead. And the line that really got 686 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: me was it is not geared to reach any human 687 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,240 Speaker 1: defined optimal point or in state, it goes where nature 688 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,879 Speaker 1: takes it, and then that ties in with number four. 689 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: Number three is creazy create resilient local economies. It's a 690 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: big part of it. But number four is, uh, work 691 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: at nature scale. Like I think humans are so obsessed 692 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: with scale in business and they're basically saying, you gotta 693 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: do what nature. Let nature do it. Nature does at 694 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: its own pace and at its own scale. That's nature scale, 695 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: and just let it do it. Don't put don't put 696 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: your hang ups on nature, man on what you want 697 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: it to be. And that's kind of true though, Yeah, no, absolutely, 698 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: I think I think though that that kind of reveals, 699 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: like that the lack of consensus in the field of rewilding, 700 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: because what did you say that was rewilding Britain's four points? Yeah, 701 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: there were actually five. The fifth one was secure and 702 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: it fits for the long term, okay, yeah, five, And 703 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: then I saw the union of the conservation of nature. Yeah, 704 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: I think that's it. I think, uh, they they have 705 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: ten ten points, so you've got five, you got ten 706 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: depending on who you ask, but they all generally agree 707 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,840 Speaker 1: that before we really start doing this stuff in earnest, 708 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: like we need more data. Like most of the people 709 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: who are like, yeah, we just you know, release some 710 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: voles into the into the woods. There's some rewilding project 711 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: right there. Like, these are the people who aren't necessarily 712 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: even thinking it through. If you're a conservation ecologist, if 713 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: you're a biologist, if you're a botanist, if you're a 714 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: scientist who's like actually looking at rewilding, pretty much everyone 715 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: agrees like we need way more data than we have 716 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: right now. That it's a great idea. We just need 717 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: way more data if the science just isn't even there. Yeah, 718 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: but you know, one of the tenants that they both 719 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,320 Speaker 1: it seems like everyone is talking about is talk to 720 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: the local people. They call them stakeholders. Talk to the 721 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: local stakeholders, because you can't just come in there, uh 722 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: with your you know, with your science under your arm 723 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: and your folder and just say this is how it's 724 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: gonna go. Like, it's got to work for the people 725 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: and you have to get them involved and on boarders 726 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: just not gonna work. Don't even try that. In Scotland, everybody, 727 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: oh man, don't mess with their sheet. You got anything else? 728 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,919 Speaker 1: I got nothing else? Uh? Well, maybe this last little 729 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: bit from that stuff you sent. Seventy seven percent in 730 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 1: increasing of the human population lives in urban areas and 731 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: they spend of their time indoors. Seventy seven percent of 732 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: humans spend nine of their time indoors. And just the 733 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: health effects and the and the role the trickle down 734 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,399 Speaker 1: effects from that, We've talked about a lot, but people 735 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: need to be out in nature. Mental and physical illness, depression, 736 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: heart disease, anxiety, fatigue, obesity, a d h D like 737 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: you name it, like a lot can be not wholly 738 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 1: attributed to this, but certainly has an impact on people 739 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: that And I'm a city guy, you are too, Like 740 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: I love my urban areas, but uh, people need to 741 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,799 Speaker 1: get out doors more. And this is a good way 742 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,879 Speaker 1: to do what I think. Yeah, but that's a fine 743 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: line you've got to walk because we're giving this stuff 744 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: over to nature. So we have to ask ourselves, what, 745 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: what role, what place do we have in these wildernesses 746 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: that we're creating. And I think that's one of the 747 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: things that that that that rewilding ecologists are excited about, 748 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: is that would cause us to to rethink that that 749 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: would be like, wait, amount I want to be indoors 750 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: all time? Well, wait a minute, I'm already indoors all 751 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: the time. I need to get out there, and now 752 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: there's a place for them to go. So yeah, I 753 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: think that's an they're big question mark that we'd have 754 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: to figure out too. That's right. Um, well, that's it 755 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: for rewilding for now. Given another five years, maybe we'll 756 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,640 Speaker 1: come back to it. Everybody. And since I said that, 757 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call this of 758 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: what the author called it, lesbians in the Military. Hi, guys, 759 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: really enjoyed your podcast about the term friend of Dorothy 760 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,719 Speaker 1: and wanted to add something to your discussion about gay 761 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: men in the military. Uh. And this is probably on 762 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,800 Speaker 1: us for just sort of saying gay men in the military, 763 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,879 Speaker 1: But there were many lesbians in the military during World 764 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: War Two, as well as people who would we would 765 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: now describe as bisexual women, transmasculine people, and others. The 766 00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: military was a safe place for queer women and a 767 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: fab assigned female at birth people since it was somewhat 768 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: of an escape for mainstream society that expected women to 769 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: dress and present femininely and marry men never consider this. 770 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: It's pretty great. This article is a great summary of 771 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: the history. I thought you might find it interesting. Uh. 772 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: And the name of the article I just click the 773 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: link is called this is from out history dot org 774 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: lesbians Comma not colin World War two and beyond. And 775 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: this is from Rebecca, a friend of Dorothy. Nice. Thanks 776 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: a lot, Rebecca. We're a friend of Rebecca who's a 777 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: friend of Dorothy. That's right. It's hard to keep track, 778 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,359 Speaker 1: but let's just all be friends. That's pretty great. Um, 779 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: thank you for that email, Rebecca. And if you want 780 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: to be like us and point out something we hadn't 781 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,880 Speaker 1: considered before. We love that kind of stuff. You can 782 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: wrap it up and send it in an email to 783 00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: Stuff Podcasts at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should 784 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more 785 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,959 Speaker 1: podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 786 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.