WEBVTT - Achieving excellence, with Brad Stulberg 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:14.720 This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.279 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.120 the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.000 take their days from great to awesome and any advice 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.720 they have for the rest of us. So today I 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.320 am excited to welcome Brad Stilberg to Before Breakfast. Brad 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.319 is the author of the brand new book The Way 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.400 of Excellence. So Brad, welcome to the show. 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:35.400 Laura, It's great to be here. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:37.360 Yeah, well, thanks so much for joining us. Why don't 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:39.159 you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:41.519 So I wear a couple of hats. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.360 One hat is an author, where I'm really interested in 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:49.920 exploring the things that make humans flourish. I write books, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.760 I research, and I report for those books. The second 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.920 hat I wear as a performance coach, so I work 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:00.880 with athletes, executives, entrepreneurs and creatives on their own performance, 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.080 applying so many of the things that I write about. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.319 And then the third hat that I wear as a professor, 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.640 where I'm adjunct faculty at the University of Michigan and 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.720 much like my writing and coaching. I work with students 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.280 there on their professional development, leadership and mental performance. 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.640 Excellent. Well, your book is about excellence, which is a 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.080 bit of a lofty topic, and I know that your 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.800 clients are people like the these athletes and things like 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.000 that is excellent something that the rest of us should 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:30.920 be thinking about as well. I mean, there's same things 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.160 that athletes do. Are they applicable to the rest of us. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:35.679 Absolutely. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.680 I think that one of the biggest misconceptions about excellence 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.760 is that it's only for the select few with impeccable 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:46.160 genetics that are competing in the World Championships or the Olympics, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.280 and that just couldn't be further from the truth. Excellence 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.919 really comes down to caring deeply about projects that align 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.840 with your values and goals and giving them your all, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.960 and all of us can do that, and it helps 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.680 all of us to feel more live, to get the 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:02.800 best out of ourselves, and to have awesome days. 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:03.320 Yeah. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.360 Absolutely, well. I understand that some parts of the genesis 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:11.120 of this book had to do with Robert Persig and 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.720 Zen and the art of mozorviicals and maintenances of course 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.200 his most famous book. But maybe you can talk a 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.040 little bit about the connection between Persig's work and yours. 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.720 So Zen The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Lila are 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.520 person's two big books. They're two of my favorite books. 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.680 They've really help informs my philosophy of life. And at 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.720 the center of Persig's work is this term called quality, 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:37.200 and Perseig defines quality is the relationship between an actor 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.360 and their act. So it's not what you are experiencing, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.320 is the person dancing, It's not what the dance floor 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.760 is experiencing with your feet tapping on it. It's the 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.880 relationship between you and what you're doing. And what Persig 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.320 argued is that so much of the fulfillment and satisfaction 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.800 in good stuff in life comes out of that relationship 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.720 between awesome the things that we care about. Persik said, 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.440 and this is back in nineteen seventy four, is that 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.880 more and more of modern life alienates us from that 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.240 direct experience of the things that we care about. And 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.040 again he wrote this before social media in some ways, 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.600 before the modern internet, so imagine what he'd be thinking 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.720 if he was alive now, And that we should do 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.720 everything that we can to remove those distractions so that 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.040 we can experience that kind of intimacy with the things 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.600 that are important to us. And again, a big part 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:28.640 of having an excellent life in such a chaotic and 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.639 crazy world is being able to set aside time in 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.640 space to get really close and focused and undistracted on 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.280 the projects that we find worthwhile. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.440 Yeah, well, figuring out what is worthwhile is sometimes a 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.040 little bit complicated. And you have a great phrase in 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.520 your book. I believe it is quit, fit, and grit, 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:49.680 which is memorable for sure. So why don't you talk 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:50.920 about what that means. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.960 Yeah, So grit is this phenomenal term as coined by 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.440 Angela Duckworth, and it became all the rage and self 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:00.720 help and personal development really over the last decade, and 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.200 grit is really important. Grit says that you have to 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.680 have stick to itiveness. You've got to be tough, you 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.880 can't let stepbacks throw you off course, you got to 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:12.120 stick to what you're doing. Commit And that's true, but 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:13.880 that can also get in the way because what if 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.719 you're doing the wrong thing, What if what you actually 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.880 should do is quit and try to find something new. 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:20.440 So the way that I like to think about this 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:22.919 is it's really helpful to sample a whole bunch of 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.599 different pursuits. This can be professional if you're young, this 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.560 can be hobbies. If you're older and you're already locked 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:28.520 in your career. 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.679 And you want to quit early and often. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:32.760 If you don't enjoy something, if it doesn't align with 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.520 your values or the person that you think you want 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.560 to become, then there's no need to stick it out 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.840 in that thing. However, once you found something where there 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.960 is a good fit, that is when grit becomes super important. 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.320 So to make this really practical in my own life, 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.640 I was never very good at math or science, and 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.640 I constantly quit things that involve math and science. I 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.080 quit ap math in high school. In college, I thought 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.039 I was going to be an economics major until I 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.000 took econ four oh one, which had all kinds of 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:00.960 math that I couldn't do. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:02.280 So I quit math. 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.479 And the flip side is that in writing, I was 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:08.839 extremely gritty. I was on a school newspaper. I got 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.600 rejected more times than I can count, Yet I kept 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.960 on writing because I liked it. I had fit. So 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.040 I was really gritty with my writing because there was 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.560 good fit. But I quit math in science very early 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.479 and very often. And imagine if I would have forced 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.360 myself to say, you know, my parents had this more 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.520 analytic career, so therefore I need to have a career 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.120 that is more analytic. I might be miserable right now. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.280 So I think that too often we over index when 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:36.279 we say the great performance is all about grit and 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.520 being really tough and stick toitiveness. And that's very true, 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.760 but it's only true once you found something for which 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:42.440 you have a good fit. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.599 Yeah. So this is the time of year, you know, 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.080 this is airing in January. A lot of people have 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.360 set resolutions and goals for the new year. Are there 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.240 ways we should think about setting these goals that might 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:59.160 make them more workable or more in keeping with the 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.279 pursuit of excellent. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:06.240 Yeah, it's so important to set big, challenging, inspirational, motivating goals, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.840 but then to largely forget about the big, challenging inspirational 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.840 goal and to focus on the process, to focus on 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:13.800 the steps that are going to help you achieve that goal. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.719 This is at the crux of a process mindset, and 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.800 a process mindset is crucial for excellence. It essentially says, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.400 set your big goal, then break that big goal down 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.640 into the component parts, into the small steps, and then 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.039 largely forget about the big goal and just focus on 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.640 nailing the steps. Little by little becomes a lot. One 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.760 of my favorite interviews I did for the book was 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:38.360 with Kelly Humphries. She is one of the winningest Olympians ever. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.040 She's won three gold medals, one bronze, and five world championships. 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.799 And she's about to compete in February in this upcoming 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.160 Winter Olympics. And she's a bob sled athlete. You can 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:49.400 do the math. She's been at the top of the 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.720 world for the last twenty years. And I asked Kelly. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.240 I said, Kelly, talk to me about what goes into 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.160 setting a goal for the Olympics. And she says, well, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:58.480 my goal is simple. I want to be the best 0:06:58.520 --> 0:06:59.960 in the world. I want to win a gold medal. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.920 Four years after that. I take a four year. 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:04.840 Olympic cycle and I break it down into two by 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:06.960 two years, and then each of those two years has 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.960 a particular focus. The first two years are building a base, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.800 the second two years are sharpening the saw. Then I 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:14.680 take each of those two years and I break them 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.040 down into individual years, and each of those years has 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.640 a focus. Each year gets broken down into quarters, each 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.880 quarter to months, each months to week, and then each 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.680 week gets broken down into days, and then what I 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.520 do is I show up and I focus on the 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.560 workout I need to execute today. So she has this 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.800 big goal, arguably the biggest, to be the best in 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.120 the world at what she does, but day to day, 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.880 she's digging exactly where her feet are. She's focused on 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.760 the process, and all of us can apply that mindset 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:40.560 to our big goals. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.679 So just focus on the process instead of the summit fever, 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:44.800 we might get at the top. 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:46.040 Yeah that's right. 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:47.880 I mean, think about it. I love the EU summit 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.120 fever and a climber. If you're a climber and you're 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.400 so fixated on getting to the peak that you're constantly 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.160 looking up and staring at the top of the mountain, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.400 you're gonna literally like trip and fall over your own feet. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.440 You're gonna make mistakes on the side of the mountain. 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.160 So you can't have a climb without a top. You 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.840 have to know where you're going, but to successfully get there, 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.320 you've got to focus on climbing exactly where you are. 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.920 So it's this paradox of yes, set the big goal, 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.840 care deeply about it, but then also kind of forget 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.040 about it, or at least don't obsess over it, so 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:16.920 that you can focus on the small steps that are 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:17.800 going to help you get there. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.200 Absolutely Well, we're going to take a quick ad break 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.120 and then I'll be back with more from Brad Stolberg. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.360 So I am back talking with Brad Stolberg, who is 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:34.119 the author of the brand new book The Way of Excellence. 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.480 We've been talking about breaking down big goals into small 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:41.400 daily steps toward those big goals. Now when we get 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.559 to sort of rubber meeting the road and day to 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.920 day life, as you know, schedules get crazy, things come up. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:53.000 People have various obstacles on any given day. Is there 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.440 I think you had a phrase in there about raising 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:57.040 the floor, I mean figuring out, you know, what is 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.640 the least amount you can do on certain days. Even 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:02.599 if we are eventually aiming towards these big goals, what 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:03.839 does that mean to do that? 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.880 So many people focus on needing to have great days. 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.760 What I have found in my research with performers of 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.120 all different levels, from beginner to world class, is that 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.840 what actually leads to lasting progress isn't having more great days, 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.600 it's making your bad days a little bit better. And 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.200 what I mean by that is you might have a 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.640 day where everything kind of goes to crap. Right, the 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.280 dog is vomiting on the floor, your toddler sick, it's 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:34.040 like everything's a mess. You can spiral and catastrophize and 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.320 get absolutely nothing done that day, or you can say, 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.360 all right, today's going to be very different than what 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.800 i'd hope for. What would it look like to get 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.000 five or ten percent out of myself instead of the 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.360 one hundred percent i'd hope for, Or maybe you don't 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:48.120 even get five or ten percent of yourself, But instead 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.719 of catastrophizing and spiraling where a bad day becomes a 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:52.720 bad week, you say, all right, today's a zero. I'm 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.520 going to take a zero to day, but tomorrow I'm 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.880 going to get back on the bandwagon. And really good 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.080 progress requires not just those great days, not just to 0:10:01.120 --> 0:10:04.120 having a high ceiling, but also raising the floor. Because 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.320 the truth is, and I bet every listener knows this, 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.959 by definition, great days are rare, Like we don't have 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:12.000 our best days very often. There's a reason that our 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.120 best days, it's much more frequent that we're having an 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.200 average day or and not so great day. But if 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.760 we can just nudge what we can get out of 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.240 ourselves on those not so great in average days up 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.920 over time, that makes an enormous difference. So when you're 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.040 having a bad day, instead of freaking out about it, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.160 try to disrupt that negative rumination and spiral and say, 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.480 all right, for whatever reason, it's not going to happen 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:36.760 like I thought today, But how could I make this 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:38.520 bad day a little bit better? What could I get 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.199 out of myself? How could I adjust and still work 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.120 toward my goal even if it's not in the way 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:43.600 I hope for. 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.559 I think you refer to this as the next play mentality. 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.800 Yeah, athletes are great. Athletes are phenomenal with this, which 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.040 just says, like next play mentality, the play that just 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.360 happened is in the past. There's nothing that you can 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.280 do about it. You can learn from it if possible, 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.920 but then you've got to focus on the next. And obviously, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.600 an next play mentality isn't just important in tennis or 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:09.080 golf or soccer basketball. It's important in life. And so 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.880 often we get caught up in thinking about what just 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:15.719 happened instead of saying, all right, what happened happens? Take 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:17.000 what I can and then I'm going to focus on 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:17.520 the next play. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.839 So I understand that you have a lot of rituals 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.359 and routines in your life, things that you do repeatedly. 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.080 We are all about routines on this show, a show 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:31.079 called Before Breakfast. In particular, morning routines are something that 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:32.640 a lot of people are interested in. Do you have 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.920 a particular morning routine that is part of your life 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:35.360 right now? 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:38.240 I do have a particular morning routine that is part 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.199 of my life, and it revolves around coffee, which is 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.040 an ergogenic performance enhancer. I believe in free pub for 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.559 coffee on the show today. But my morning routine is 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.079 actually quite simple. I get out of bed, I say 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.240 hi to my kids, who are generally up around the 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.360 same time as me, or generally they're actually waking me up. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.040 I have young kids, so they're my alarm clock. And 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.480 then I make a pot of coffee and make coffee 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.079 for myself and my wife, and I drink that coffee, 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.719 and then, to the extent possible, again depending on what's 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.160 happening with the kids, I try to sit down and 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.600 do my most important, high demanding cognitive work first thing 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.840 in the day. But it's really like the ritual of 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:16.720 getting out of bed and making that pot of coffee 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.320 that helps me shift from a barely waking state to 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.160 a wakeful state. And of course the caffeine helps, but 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:25.560 I know that it's actually the ritual as much as 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.080 the caffeine, because even before any coffee hits my digestive track, 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.800 the coffee signifies like, all right, it started the day, 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.560 It's go time. Something that I do when I'm working 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:39.360 on a book is I'll also light incense. And again, 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:43.360 there's just something about connecting, like the the the actual 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.040 physical process of getting the incent burning and then the 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.040 smell of it to writing where my brain kind of 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.120 locks in and says all right, like it's time to write. 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.120 So I'm curious, I mean, because you said with the 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.960 young kids, and this is often something that makes people's 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:01.200 morning routines slightly more complicated, right, dealing with little people. 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.199 Is it more that you're aiming to start at a 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.880 particular time when they're off doing their stuff for the day, 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.000 or is it that they're part of it. I mean, 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.760 I'm curious, like, you know, you sit down at a 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.880 certain time when they are at school, or how does 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:15.319 that work? 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.440 Yeah, it's a great question, because it gets it gets messy, right, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.760 So it depends on the morning. But generally speaking, let's 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.400 say that I'm up at six thirty, the kids are 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:26.760 up at six thirty, and my wife is up at 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.679 six thirty. We both have jobs. We co parent, and 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.400 by coparent, we're not divorced. We're together, but we both 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.360 raise the kids. It's not like a situation where she's 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.080 doing all the labor and I'm not. At least I 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.319 certainly try not to do that. So six thirty to 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.320 seven thirty is kind of like, all right, who's slept 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.680 better last night, who's got important work to do? Whoever 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.000 doesn't is on point for the kids, and then the 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.480 other person can go do forty five minutes of work, 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:50.800 and then it's time to get the kids ready, get 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.600 them off to school. They're off to school by seven thirty. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.160 And then at that point I am just trying to 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.280 lock in from seven thirty to nine thirty on my 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.640 most important work for the day, before meetings start and 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.280 before all these other things come into play. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.600 Now, do you try to push meetings too later in 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.600 the day? Is that how you would schedule an ideal day? 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.959 I do, and that's very much aligned with my chronotype, 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:13.280 which is just the fancy word that scientists use for 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.880 how the rhythms of our days go. And that's a 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.720 very individual thing. So I'm very much a morning person. 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:22.960 I'm not a night owl. I'm a morning lark. So 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.960 I know that my ability to focus deeply is generally 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.480 speaking best before noon, and then I know that from 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.080 noon to five I struggle if I'm alone, but if 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.040 I'm with other people, if I'm in meetings, if I'm 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.160 having conversations, that kind of energy can help light me 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.920 back up. So it doesn't always work like this, but 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.880 to the extent possible, I try to put my meetings 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.800 in my more extroverted social work in the afternoon and 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.360 schedule my more deep focus, cognitive alone work in the morning. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.760 Now, you had mentioned that you have a couple of 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.680 weekly routines, like things that you aim to do once 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.720 a week, which is sort of a different unit of 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.720 time than a lot of people think about with routines. 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.080 But yeah, what are some of those things? 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.600 Yeah, I'm glad you asked, so I'll share the framework 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.080 real quick because I think it can be really helpful, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:12.600 which is three daily routines, three weekly routines and three 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:18.400 monthly routines. So my daily routines are forty five to 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.520 sixty minutes of exercise and I try to do this 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.400 every day. And this doesn't always mean going to the 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.640 gym and killing myself. Sometimes it means walking the dog, 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.000 but moving my body for forty five to sixty minutes 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.280 a day at least one and a half hours of 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.280 deep focus work where I'm not running from meeting to meeting, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.240 and I'm focused on a project that matters to me. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.840 For me, usually that's writing, and then going to bed 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.400 when I'm tired. So I've learned not to fight sleep again. 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.360 We have young kids. They go to bed at eight. Often, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:42.760 my wife and I are in bed at nine thirty. 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.160 We're not very exciting because without going to bed at 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.480 nine thirty, we wouldn't get much sleep. Some of my 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.800 weekly routines my three weekly routines. The first is some 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.840 kind of extended time in nature. This can just be 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.360 an hour and a half walk with the dog. So 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.160 instead of the quick walk around our neighborhood, we go 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.520 out in a trail that like really helps me clear 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.600 my mind, reconnect to myself. A digital sabbath, which is 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.640 a time period where I put my phone in my computer, 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.720 completely away in When I'm doing this at my best, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.360 it's a whole day. When I'm not at my best, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.120 it's a half a day. But it's literally like in 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.200 the Attict, you know, nowhere near me, not in the 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.720 other room, not turned off, but a place where I'm 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.960 not even thinking about it, to get away from the 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.360 digital device. And then some kind of social interaction with 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.760 friends once a week so I can be really busy. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.840 I'm very work driven, and sometimes friendship gets crowded out. 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:35.680 So if I'm really cognizant of hey, I've got to 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:37.360 make sure I'm hanging out with people at least once 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.680 a week. And then I also have these three monthly 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.600 things that I do, which is try to spend a 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.240 day in nature, often with the family. Try to do 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:46.880 something with my community, so go to a neighborhood barbecue, 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.800 go do a cleanup on one of the local trails nearby, 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.160 something like that to connect with my community. And then 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.360 I also try to have some time period for contemplation 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.680 and reflection. So maybe it's meditation, maybe it's listening to 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.440 my favorite music album, so on and so forth. I 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.080 find especially with young kids in the cast of life. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.560 Sometimes having like very elaborate routines helps people at certain 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.439 phases of life. For me right now, the more I 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.920 can simplify, the better. So I know that if I'm 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:13.679 doing my three daily and my three weekly and my 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.840 three monthly things, my physical, cognitive, emotional, and social health 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:18.920 will be in a good enough spot. 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.160 Absolutely. All right, We're going to take one more quick 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:22.600 ad break and then I'll be back with more from 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:32.320 Brad Stolberg. So I am back talking with Brad Stolberg, 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.480 who is the author of the book The Way of Excellence. 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:36.440 So I have a follow up question about the digital 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.239 sabbath because I know a lot of people say, well, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.040 I really would like to be off a lot of 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.639 my devices and my connectivity. However, there are other people, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.359 like even within my family or friends, that I would 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.320 need to be connected to. On a weekend day, for instance, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.000 my teenager is going to be out and about and 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.119 want to connect to pick up, you know, get a 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.959 ride home, or like my parents will need to reach me. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.679 So I'm curious to how one should thread that needle 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.000 of having some of the upsides the connectivity without getting 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.520 into all the downsides that can happen. 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:06.679 So I can share how I did it in what 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.919 worked for my family, and that is I got a 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.360 phone called a Jitterbug, which is marketed towards senior citizens. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.399 It has no Internet. In order to text, you have 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.280 to like do the old texting, or in order to 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.000 get to like the letter C, you have to hit 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.760 one three times to go through A B and C. 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:22.960 So functionally, you're never going to text on this thing. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.720