1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. It's Josh, it's Chuck, 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: and we're both alive for now. 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what, buddy, if I was ever dead, 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: I would I would want you to make sure of 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: it by killing me again. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you'd be setting me up for a real 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: legal quagmire that probably would not break in my favorite Chuck. 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: So I don't know if I can guarantee that. 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 3: I wish I could do. 10 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 2: A good impression of the late actor slash magician, slash 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: kind of comedian Ricky j because anyone who's ever seen 12 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: the to my mind great pt Anderson movie from nineteen 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: ninety nine, Magnolia, it is great. 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 3: We'll recall and if you're interested. 15 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 2: By the way, our friend of the show, Josh's boyfriend 16 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: Adam Pranica, was on my pt Anderson series on movie Crush, 17 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: so we covered Magnolia and all the pt Anderson movies 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: before the show ended. 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,959 Speaker 1: That is, I've got one even better than you. 20 00:00:59,080 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 3: What's that. 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: Are? 22 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: Another friend of the show, Paul F. Tompkins. 23 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 3: P F. 24 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: Tompkins, not pt Anderson. He did a script reading for 25 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Magnolia at the table with all the actors and apparently 26 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: was not doing well enough for Tom Cruise not to 27 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: say something like can we keep getting this right or 28 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: something that's a hilarious sorry, I've never heard where Tom 29 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Cruise is essentially like being mean to PF. Tompkins for 30 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: not doing good job script reading. 31 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: Well that I sort of like Tom Cruise until then 32 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 2: because Pauluck Tompkins is a national treasure and he was 33 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: actually in the movie There will be Blood because I 34 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: don't know, maybe he did such a good job at 35 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: that table reading. 36 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's another pt Anderson film, right, yeah, where 37 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: he goes I'm done with drinking milkshake or something. 38 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: That's it. I don't want any more milkshake, thank you. 39 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 3: I think it's the line. 40 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Why are we talking about Magnolia. 41 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: Because once again, at the beginning of that movie, there's 42 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: a series of vignettes. Ricky Jay narrates them, and the 43 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: first I think it's the first one I don't recall, 44 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: but it's it's a very kind of cool sequence where 45 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: there's this story is told where a guy named Sidney 46 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: Barringer attempted suicide but it became a suicide. The long 47 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: and short of it is he jumped out of a 48 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 2: window his parents lived in the apartment or in an 49 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: apartment below him, and as he jumped and was falling 50 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: to what he thought would be his death, his mom 51 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: and dad got into an argument. His mom aims a 52 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 2: shotgun at the dad, the gun goes off, It goes 53 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: through the window, missing the father, and kills the son 54 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: on his way down to land. The guy didn't know 55 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: this when he went to jump off the building, but 56 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 2: there was a net down there that would have caught 57 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: him and saved his life. 58 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it went from him taking his own life 59 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: to his mom murdering him, to his suicide being ruled 60 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: an attempted one. He couldn't have completed it because of 61 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: that net. But it gets even crazier because when the 62 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: police show up, the mom and dad say, we have 63 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: no idea how this shotgun was loaded. We use it 64 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: to threaten one another all the time, so we know 65 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: not to load it. And upon more investigation, they found 66 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: that Sydney had loaded it. So he loaded the gun 67 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: that killed him, and so the medical examiner ruled it 68 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: a suicide. 69 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: After all, that's right, This story is not true, as 70 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: it turns out, it was based on the story of 71 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: Ronald Opus, which came from an oral story of the 72 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 2: President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, Don Harper Mills, 73 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven. 74 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: He told the story at a banquet. 75 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: Eventually found its way to the Internet, but Mills maintains 76 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: that he made it up to illustrate how turning up 77 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: new evidence can completely alter the outcome of a coroner's ruling. 78 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: Right, And it's a really good example of just how 79 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: strange turns of events in evidence collection can completely alter 80 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: a medical examiner's ruling on the cause of death. And 81 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: that also applies to an entirely like niche I guess 82 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: area of legal legal scholarship, which is can you murder 83 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: someone who's already dead? And it turns out it's not 84 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: nearly as straightforward as you would think. 85 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: All right, let's take a break, what a tease, and 86 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: we'll come back with more talk of boogie nights and 87 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: heart eight right after this. 88 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: Definitely should know. 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: Y s k as Why why s k as good? 90 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: You should know? So, Chuck, we were talking about whether 91 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: it's possible legally to murder a dead body. Obviously physically 92 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: it's not. And there's actual case law where people have 93 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: done something like this, and legal scholars, prosecutors, defense teams, 94 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: juries have had to sort this out, and one of 95 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: the best known ones came in France in nineteen eighty. 96 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: Six, that's right, with the death of Monsieur Wilkins. Monsieur 97 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: Wilkins got in a brawl with Monsieur Charro. 98 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 3: Is that right? Okay? 99 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: But I mean it's messieurs charrow What I say, monsieur? 100 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 3: How do you pronounce it monsieur? Really? Why is it 101 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 3: mon Is that all silent? 102 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: It's just the French doing their French thing. 103 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 3: So Monsieur isn't isn't anything at all? 104 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: No, it's monsieur. 105 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 3: I've heard of monsieur. I just thought this was a 106 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: more formal title or something. No, No, I know that's 107 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: it spelled in. 108 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: That's weird, that's the famous monsieur. 109 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: All right, So monsieur all right. 110 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: So Monsieur Charro was in this brawl with Monsieur Wilkins. 111 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: Wilkins was knocked unconscious by an iron bar by Monsieur Charro, 112 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: and then Monsieur Charro used that same iron bar to 113 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: strangle Monsieur Wilkins. The next day, another dude, Monsieur Pied 114 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: deer Rot came along and it was like, Hey, this 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 2: Wilkins guy's still alive, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna 116 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: beat him to death with a glass bottle and strangle 117 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: him just to make sure that he's dead. The medical 118 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: examiner found that Chirou had actually killed him, so he 119 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: was dead. So then the question remains what happens to 120 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: Pederot when he commits this seeming active murder on a 121 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 2: dead body? 122 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: Right, So there's an actual answer for this, And before 123 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: we get to the answer, we have to talk about 124 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: a couple of illegal things in another case. Yes, okay, 125 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: so the people who are arguing against Pedderow's guilt, so say, 126 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: his defense team said he cannot be charged with murder 127 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: or even attempted murder because murdering Monsieur Wilkins was a 128 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: legal impossibility. It was impossible for him to complete this act, 129 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: which means that he can't possibly be guilty of it. 130 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: And that was apparently a longstanding idea in law of 131 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: this idea of a legal impossibility and guilt, right, And 132 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: so some people said, Okay, that's actually a pretty good explanation. 133 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: I think he might not be guilty, and other people said, wait, wait, wait, 134 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: forget this legal impossibility, mumbo jumbo. What we think is 135 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: more important is intent. What did he intend to do? 136 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: He thought that Willikins was still alive when he tried 137 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: to murder him, so his intent was to murder this man. 138 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: Therefore he's guilty of attempt to murder. And everybody said, 139 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: what to do, what to do? Sacrobo, that's right. 140 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: I thought that was sacred blow. 141 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: So they said we must look to see if there's 142 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: any precedent that was in the eighties. And I don't 143 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 2: know if they actually looked at the American case or not, 144 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: because you can't really say president on someone else's country, right. 145 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: No, No, it's not precedent necessary, but I think like 146 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: it's out there. Sure, yeah, okay. 147 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: So New York City, nineteen seventy five, eleven years before 148 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: the French incident, as it's known by me only, there 149 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: were some dudes drinking and an apartment. Three guys drinking. 150 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: The guy's apartment was Michael Geller and another guy, Joe Bush, 151 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: had been staying there kind of free loading, staying with 152 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: the guy, and they're sitting there getting a little more drunk. Obviously, 153 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: some hot heads. Hot heads kind of guys, and Geller 154 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: started saying like, hey, dude, you've been crashing here. I 155 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: need some rent. Why don't you start chipping in on rent. 156 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: This thing escalated such that Bush eventually shot him three 157 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: times in the chest and the guy falls to the floor. 158 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: And then the third guy comes in, Melvin Dlugash, and 159 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 2: stands over Geller and fires five more shots into his head. 160 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: Both of these guys are charged, obviously with murder, but 161 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: once again, Delugash his was, Hey, this guy was already dead, 162 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: or at least you can't prove that he was alive 163 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 2: when I shot him five times in the head. He 164 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 2: wasn't initially convicted of murder, but it was overturned, saying 165 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: that you can't prove that he was dead, so you 166 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,839 Speaker 2: can't charge me with. 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: Murder, right, And I just want to say, this seems 168 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: like a fairly shocking crime. But this took place while 169 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: there's still lead in America's gasoline. Yeah, so, yeah, like 170 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: you said, blue Gash, that's the best way you could 171 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: say that horrible name. Yeah, he got off because, yeah, 172 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: the prosecution couldn't prove that Geller was still alive, and 173 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: New York Supreme Courts had done up not so fast. 174 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter whether Geller was still alive. You thought 175 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: he might have still been alive, which is why you 176 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: shot him five times in the head. And we're going 177 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: to throw out this idea of legal impossibility and adopt 178 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: basically a new framework, or at least we're going to 179 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 1: take an existing framework and basically make it the framework, 180 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: which is intent. Yeah, that is that, like, what you 181 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: intended to do determines your guilt or innocence, not the 182 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: actual fact or possibility of whether you could have done 183 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: what you were trying to do. 184 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 3: Right. 185 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: Specifically, the charge is attempted murder. What you can't do 186 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: is charge somebody with murder, right, because you can't murder 187 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 2: a corpse. It's just not scientifically. Forget legally it's not 188 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: scientifically possible, right, kill something that is already dead. But 189 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 2: attempted murder you certainly can. So the French High Court 190 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: weighs in on the Pardrieux case with monsieur. 191 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: What a dope this is? This is an an instant 192 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: classic because of that, and. 193 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: They came to the same conclusion and they said, all right, 194 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: you're guilty of attempted murder. Then, because our friend the 195 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 2: Yanks across the pond. They informed our opinion on this. 196 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: Perhaps, yeah, perhaps, so there's at least one more that 197 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: we want to call out. This actually happens with surprising frequency. 198 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: I would not think that there would be more than 199 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: one or two cases, but there are some here there. 200 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: One that I saw was that it's sometimes used to 201 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: prosecute cops who shoot people a bunch of times. There 202 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: was a cop in Toronto who a guy came at 203 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: with a knife and he shot him three times and 204 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: the guy dropped, and then he went up and shot 205 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: him a bunch more times when the guy was on 206 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: the ground, and the jury said, nope, that was illegal murder. 207 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: We can't convict you of murder because this is in 208 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: the line of duty and it was the bullets after 209 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: the shots. After that, we can now convict you of 210 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: attempted murder. 211 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. 212 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: It also happened to our dear friends in Australia in 213 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: the case of what looks like a mercy killing in 214 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen near one of our favorite cities, Melbourne. Two guys, 215 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: Daniel Darrington and Rocky Spartacus Matt Scassey what a name. Yeah, 216 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: they got in a fight. We're struggling over a gun. 217 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: The gun went off, well, I was about to say killed. 218 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: It struck Matt Scassie in the head. His bodies on 219 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 2: the ground, twitching around and stuff, and Darrington shoots him. 220 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: He's like, hey, I don't want this guy, and the 221 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: quote was didn't want the blokes suffering and killed him 222 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 2: for sure, then went back got more bullets and then 223 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 2: shot him again. And he was charged with murder. And 224 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: the jury said, you know, we can't find him guilty 225 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 2: because the prosecution didn't kill that you intended to kill 226 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 2: him when the gun went off to begin. 227 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: With, right, But they did find guilty of attempted murder 228 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: because he demonstrated quite clearly that he thought Matt's Cassie 229 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: was still alive and shot him to kill him. However 230 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: merciful the act was supposed to be. And he got 231 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: convicted of attempted murder for that one. 232 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 3: Wow. 233 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: Had I not had he not tried to be merciful 234 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: and put Matt's Cassie out of his misery and just 235 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: the initial shot had killed them, he wouldn't have been 236 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: convicted of anything at all. 237 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been I guess a struggle, maybe 238 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: even self defense. Who knows how they would have framed it. 239 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, So I guess that's the that's the 240 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: takeaway here. If somebody is potentially already dead, call an ambulance. 241 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 242 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: This kind of thing, I feel like is in movies 243 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: a lot. I feel like it often comes up as 244 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: like to prove your loyalty to the organization, like someone's 245 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: in there, like I killed most of them. You got 246 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: to finish them off so we're both liable or whatever. 247 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I see that a lot of movies. I 248 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 1: feel like, Sure, short stuff, I guess it's out. 249 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 3: Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 250 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 3: more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple 251 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 3: Podcasts 252 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.