Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to The Hunting Collective, episode number eighteen.
Speaker 1: I've been O'Brien today. I am joined by Col Kramer,
Speaker 1: Kodiak Alaska bear guide, mountain hunter and venturing badass. Cole
Speaker 1: is a great friend of mine, one of my favorite
Speaker 1: people on the planet Earth, someone I've traveled the far
Speaker 1: reaches of the world with, and I value him in
Speaker 1: his opinion among almost all others. This conversation goes into taxidermy, trophies,
Speaker 1: value systems, guiding bears, such a great bunch of great
Speaker 1: bear stories that you won't hear anywhere else, a guy
Speaker 1: like Cole, and our story of our adventure in Paul
Speaker 1: last year. So hopefully you enjoy all those things I
Speaker 1: certainly did. It's longer than our normal podcast. It could
Speaker 1: have been way longer than it actually is. I think
Speaker 1: it's one of our best. It'll stand up for a
Speaker 1: long time. This is episode number eighteen of The Hunting
Speaker 1: collect Hey, Cole, Hey Ben, nobody doing good. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me on the podcast. Man, Oh well, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 1: I always like to start these conversations out, like for
Speaker 1: you to describe more. And it was certainly we're in
Speaker 1: interesting places for you to describe where we are, what
Speaker 1: we're doing. Well, folks, for those of you at home
Speaker 1: right now thinking about us, just put yourself in a
Speaker 1: nice relaxing moment and just think that you're back on
Speaker 1: a bus that you went to school and but yet
Speaker 1: it's a much nicer bus that has nice couches does
Speaker 1: and we're looking outside in the rain and fog at
Speaker 1: the total archery challenge up here at is it Terry Peak?
Speaker 1: It is Terry Peak in South Dakota. Terry Peak, South Dakota. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is raining. It's been raining all day, which is
Speaker 1: not It turns out that doesn't work well for an
Speaker 1: outdoor archery shoot. No, when you can barely make out
Speaker 1: the targets, it's difficult. But I tell you what, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of hardcore people here just hitting the course
Speaker 1: up like nothing's going on. So just throwing on there,
Speaker 1: throwing on their rain gear doing it. Was it. We're
Speaker 1: just drinking hot cocoa and a bus. We are drinking
Speaker 1: hot coco and I do have my shoes off cooler
Speaker 1: black sin. Yeah. Well, now we're in the not just
Speaker 1: any bus, the public lands bus. That's right, Sam soholds
Speaker 1: awesome bus Yeah, he's been kind enough to let me
Speaker 1: use this as a studio for today. It's very nice.
Speaker 1: It's um, how would you describe the interior. It's rustic
Speaker 1: but also modern. Yeah, it's a modern rustic m Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really nice. He's done what did you say, It
Speaker 1: took him about two months, two solid months of two months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: painted the outside and fabbed up well, framed up a
Speaker 1: hole four bunks back there, and the whole queen looked
Speaker 1: like maybe even a queen size bed in the back. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think he actually rents out his slots here. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean it's pretty expensive, so if anybody, if anybody
Speaker 1: wants to it's like an Airbnb on wheels. He'll drive
Speaker 1: to you wherever you are. That's actually not a bad
Speaker 1: idea for a business. No, no, it's not. Actually I
Speaker 1: have to let him know. Yeah, maybe he'll come in
Speaker 1: and join us. Um, he's outside selling T shirts right
Speaker 1: now for his public Lands tease. So you've got a
Speaker 1: lot of public land stuff going on, very trendy. He's
Speaker 1: got a really cool uh what is that a Waltin
Speaker 1: framed of Walt Waltin on the front of the bus
Speaker 1: or on the side of the bus and that his
Speaker 1: T shirts and whatnot in there, and a lot of
Speaker 1: folks coming in. Already, river running river runs through it.
Speaker 1: With all the rain and hail we've had here, it's
Speaker 1: quite interesting outside. Right at the moment, it was true
Speaker 1: of mud. Listen, anybody listening that thinks that my mobile
Speaker 1: airbnb idea is good, let me know, because I'd like
Speaker 1: to get I'd like to go into business, like to
Speaker 1: Colleck some royalties we like. You're like, hey man, I'm
Speaker 1: staying in Devon for the weekend. Like, I'll drive to you.
Speaker 1: You can stay at my bus. Maybe Sam and I
Speaker 1: can get in that. Anyhow, it's been a fun, fun weekend.
Speaker 1: We've shot many a foam target at various distances. I
Speaker 1: feel like we're supporting the arrow companies after this trip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we are. And I'm I showed up here with my
Speaker 1: my favorite arrows. Ah. So listen, h you may you
Speaker 1: know you listen to this podcast, you may think a
Speaker 1: lot of sharp, sharp fellow. You know what a character sharp, thoughtful?
Speaker 1: You know it really has it all together. He knows
Speaker 1: this stuff. He's got a podcast. He's got a podcast.
Speaker 1: Not many people have podcasts. He must be special. But
Speaker 1: I showed up. So I will say Archery Country in Austin,
Speaker 1: Texas is one of my favorite places to be let alone,
Speaker 1: purchase archery paraphernalia from. They're awesome people, and I get
Speaker 1: my I went there, oh safe Sunday to get arrows.
Speaker 1: They know what airrors I shoot, so I got their
Speaker 1: air as they cut them for me inserts in, gave
Speaker 1: them to me. I didn't think much about it, you know.
Speaker 1: And I got here, uh, and they're the colors orange.
Speaker 1: Would you like him? They look great? Autumn orange is
Speaker 1: the color. And I got here and a few people
Speaker 1: either jokingly or seriously. I don't think I could pick
Speaker 1: up the sarcasm. We're like, oh, aluminum arrows, full fulluminum arrows. Yeah, aluminums.
Speaker 1: That's crazy. You're shooting old school. I was like, I
Speaker 1: thought about it, like did I get the wrong arrows?
Speaker 1: Did they give me the wrong arrows? So I took
Speaker 1: one of my autom orange arrows out of the quiver
Speaker 1: and looked at it and I said, oh, ship says
Speaker 1: aluminum orange. Keep in mind this has gone for several
Speaker 1: hours now. Yeah, at this point, and I'm telling everybody
Speaker 1: in our shooting group, I'm telling Sam and Cole, I
Speaker 1: got these aluminum arrows will probably fly different, you know
Speaker 1: there because it says a loom. I'm right on the shaft.
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got our wires crossed, and
Speaker 1: they gave me a loominum arrows. I wouldn't even think
Speaker 1: an art shop would even sell alumin of arrows anymore,
Speaker 1: with carbon and the other materials one might use for
Speaker 1: an arrow. And then not twenty minutes later, I looked
Speaker 1: down at my thing and Sam says, what kind of
Speaker 1: eras are they? And I said, well, there Eastern FM
Speaker 1: Jay's ship. It says automari. They are not allumin of arrows.
Speaker 1: And I'm an idiot, but they shot great, though they
Speaker 1: did shoot shoot great if you like gut shots and
Speaker 1: leg shots and hitting rocks. Yeah, hitting rocks. Well, you
Speaker 1: showed up prepared. It's not the arrow's fault. Let's let's
Speaker 1: get that. No, it's the Indians fault. It's the that's
Speaker 1: for sure. No, I will say, like when you show
Speaker 1: up to these things. I felt more prepared coming into
Speaker 1: this this weekend than I did I have for a
Speaker 1: lot of things that showing up with a bow. But
Speaker 1: I just whether it was string stretched from a hundred
Speaker 1: it's a new bow. I probably shot through it. Sat
Speaker 1: rode around in the truck for a day while we
Speaker 1: were coming back in a hundred and five degrees string stretch.
Speaker 1: Whatever act showed up here, the people's all twisted up.
Speaker 1: I was shooting about two ft left six inches low.
Speaker 1: Had to put on a new tape, and that took
Speaker 1: me a whole day of being terrible. You gotta dialed
Speaker 1: in the I gotta dialed in. At last eight targets
Speaker 1: of yesterday, I felt like I was finally getting there
Speaker 1: out of the fifty targets that we've shot. So anyway,
Speaker 1: just peek behind the curtain, as it were, to give
Speaker 1: you a little insight on how stupid I am at
Speaker 1: certain times. Cole knows all about about that. You know,
Speaker 1: I've enjoyed our times together, been and I have noticed
Speaker 1: a few things about you. But kind of like a
Speaker 1: little brother or something, I feel like, you know, it's okay.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we all have brain parts or whatever it is
Speaker 1: you call your personal Yeah, are you concerned about I'm
Speaker 1: totally used to it by now, so it doesn't really
Speaker 1: difect me. Seek help or I try to find some
Speaker 1: kind of like counseling or maybe read a book. There's
Speaker 1: probably some books that you could, yes, how not to
Speaker 1: not to be a dumbass, how not to be so forgetful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it forgets off a lot. There's a lot going on, man,
Speaker 1: a whole lot going on. Well, that happens, It definitely happens. Listen, UM,
Speaker 1: tell people what you do for a living. Well, I
Speaker 1: have lived up in Kodiak, Alaska, I guess since two
Speaker 1: thousand and two after I graduated high school, and I
Speaker 1: am a hunting guide. UM run a small operation up there,
Speaker 1: and then still work for a few other outfitters in
Speaker 1: Alaska and some other parts some other parts of the world,
Speaker 1: and kind of just I just, you know, figured at
Speaker 1: some point when I take this career seriously, I gotta
Speaker 1: just hit it hard and I'm gonna pay the bills.
Speaker 1: So pretty much year round hunting guide around bears, Kodiak
Speaker 1: brown bears, yep, Kodiak brown bears, Sitka blacktailed deer, mountain goats,
Speaker 1: uh do a little bit of doll sheep up on
Speaker 1: the mainland, brown bears on the mainland as well on
Speaker 1: the peninsula. So um, and what ends up happening, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, punting with some of these guys multiple times clients,
Speaker 1: and they kind of want to continue the hunting with you,
Speaker 1: and so I'll help line up trips for them to
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, go wherever they their hearts desire.
Speaker 1: Most of my trips are all mountain trips. So Mexico, right,
Speaker 1: we do some trips, Yep, you gotta go with Dustin
Speaker 1: Rod down there to uh Mexico in the Baja on
Speaker 1: some desert sheep and then um, you know, uh, guys
Speaker 1: want to go to Azerbaijan or Nepal or places like
Speaker 1: that or um. Kind of try to help guys get
Speaker 1: lined up, but going wherever they want to go. Most
Speaker 1: of us they here that I've been there and they
Speaker 1: kind of want to And and you meet these other
Speaker 1: outfitters at these outdoor conventions and whatnot, and you spark
Speaker 1: up relationships and so you kinda you don't go different places.
Speaker 1: So it's yeah, it's um, it's been a pretty fun
Speaker 1: fun ride. Not ready, not ready to get off it yet,
Speaker 1: So I don't think you will. What why Codiac, Well,
Speaker 1: I have, um my aunt lives there. M My aunt
Speaker 1: and uncle moved up there from uh they were in
Speaker 1: the Coastguard. They were also from Kansas where I originally
Speaker 1: grew up by Pratt, Kansas, and my uncle was a
Speaker 1: station there. He was a H sixty pilot for that's
Speaker 1: the helicopters, like like a black Hawk for the Coastguard,
Speaker 1: and um, I went up there when I was eleven
Speaker 1: and just loved it. They invited me up there, um
Speaker 1: and went back up a few other times after that.
Speaker 1: I just absolutely loved it and thought to myself, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was probably thirteen or fourteen, I'm definitely gonna
Speaker 1: move there after high school. And my uncle was a
Speaker 1: huge influence on my life. Um, and so he invited
Speaker 1: me to come up there after high school and so yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely gonna do it, And so moved up week after
Speaker 1: high school. Unfortunately, he passed away an airplane crash, so shoot,
Speaker 1: when I guess it was about nine years ago potentially,
Speaker 1: I guess. So that was really bumm deal. But my
Speaker 1: aunt is still up there, um, so I get to
Speaker 1: see her quite often. So I was really blessed to
Speaker 1: have someone there, right. I wasn't totally blind on just
Speaker 1: going up to Alaska. I had a very very good
Speaker 1: stepping stone and very supportive family members there, So that
Speaker 1: was that was great. Shout out to Pratt Kansas. What's
Speaker 1: the population of prat Kansas? Pratt Kansas, I think is
Speaker 1: somewhere around people than I thought. Yeah, my best friends
Speaker 1: that there are are back there and great people, great town.
Speaker 1: Enjoy going back there each each year. And for sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think guiding. When I think of guiding,
Speaker 1: you don't think of uh, you know, you think of
Speaker 1: a career in that industry. But you kind of flipped
Speaker 1: it over a little bit too. You know, have a
Speaker 1: name and have a reputation in the hunting industry, you know,
Speaker 1: all over with brands, with media, with all the things
Speaker 1: you've done. Is that was that intentional or did you
Speaker 1: just always stumbling all that? You know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: It's one I think it has to do with your past,
Speaker 1: whatever you're in and wanting to better your field that
Speaker 1: you're in. And for me, um, you know, I I
Speaker 1: just loved always talking about gear and exploring the types
Speaker 1: of gear that we're out there. You know, we had
Speaker 1: the old school Cabello stuff and then you know then
Speaker 1: I had a short stint like wearing Filson and things
Speaker 1: of that nature, like on my on my hunts and whatnot.
Speaker 1: But then then I thought, you know, this mountaineering stuff,
Speaker 1: that's that's the way to go. These mountaineer guys have
Speaker 1: got it figured out, you know. And so then I
Speaker 1: kind of got to the point where I got, you know,
Speaker 1: frustrated with UM trying to buy this this equipment with
Speaker 1: companies that did not support my industry as a hunter,
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, there's really no no reason for
Speaker 1: me to be supporting these types of people. And so
Speaker 1: that's when I started, uh, you know, going towards Sitka
Speaker 1: Gear and UM. It just kind of morphed into just
Speaker 1: trying to help a company. And they had plenty of
Speaker 1: great guys also with them, helping and other you know,
Speaker 1: athletes or whatnot. But from my point of view of
Speaker 1: what I was personally doing and seeing things either fail
Speaker 1: or what we're doing great, I just always felt the
Speaker 1: urge to call them and just say hey, this is great,
Speaker 1: or you know, this isn't doing so good, but trying
Speaker 1: to focus on constructive criticism. And that's kind of the
Speaker 1: way I've always been with the companies that I have,
Speaker 1: you know, in lined myself with these are these are
Speaker 1: this is gear? Or or things that I truly use,
Speaker 1: and not just because someone says, here, we'll give you
Speaker 1: some stuff for free because you're a guide or something.
Speaker 1: This is. These are things that I would much rather, um,
Speaker 1: turn down things for free and go buy something that
Speaker 1: I really want to use, rather than just taking free things. Um.
Speaker 1: It's not how I operate. Kodiak is not a place
Speaker 1: that would abide by that kind of no no. I
Speaker 1: I I remember a few times, um, getting on my
Speaker 1: satellite phone. I remember I had a set of rain
Speaker 1: gear that blew out a zipper on my leg. And
Speaker 1: you know, like on day five of a ten day
Speaker 1: hunting up in snow and rain, watching these rams, sitting
Speaker 1: over top of these rams with an archery hunter, and
Speaker 1: I got on my statphone and just you know, called
Speaker 1: the office and said, hey, guys, just letting you know,
Speaker 1: UM zipper blew out. Um. And they said, oh, so sorry,
Speaker 1: so sorry. You know, we'll we'll get that replaced. You know,
Speaker 1: no problem, we'll sing. I said, I know, but that's
Speaker 1: five days out and twenty miles away from me getting
Speaker 1: out of this place. You have to think about what
Speaker 1: people are going through and and not you know, so
Speaker 1: me I wasn't trying to call and yell at people.
Speaker 1: It was just like, please understand what people are going
Speaker 1: through wearing your your gear. I don't care if it's
Speaker 1: gear or a gun scope, whatever it is. As a company,
Speaker 1: you have to look at the most extreme end of things.
Speaker 1: And I got sick and tired of listening to people say, well,
Speaker 1: you're a guide. It's not gonna last for you. You You know,
Speaker 1: it's more mainly men for these consumers, you know, and
Speaker 1: this and that, well that's not a very good you know,
Speaker 1: and that that that wasn't coming from some of these
Speaker 1: the companies. Just I would hear that every once in
Speaker 1: a while from these these companies when I would say, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, these boots didn't really last well, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but you warm on this many hunts and then you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like right, and it's like, well, guys, you know,
Speaker 1: no matter what it is, right, I mean you That's
Speaker 1: the way I feel. And and luckily the companies that
Speaker 1: I'm in line with right now, I'm so blessed because
Speaker 1: that is what they base their things. If if I
Speaker 1: can wear it, or if the other guys that I'm
Speaker 1: associated with with these companies can wear it um or
Speaker 1: or use it, and we try to find all the
Speaker 1: faults so it doesn't happen to you. Does it still happen?
Speaker 1: It does, But I did. I guess getting back to
Speaker 1: I just really felt um getting back to what you
Speaker 1: were asking, did I see it? No, it just kind
Speaker 1: of morphed into that wanting to always help. I don't
Speaker 1: care about you know, um, as bad as it sounds,
Speaker 1: I don't really care about you know, how many likes
Speaker 1: or followers you're you get on all this social media
Speaker 1: because I just feel like, if I can help my
Speaker 1: hunters be more prepared, that's what I really care about.
Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, I've been trying
Speaker 1: for years to get you to care more about social media.
Speaker 1: You just won't do it. No, It's just it's one
Speaker 1: of those things at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: if I if I can help my hunters be prepared
Speaker 1: and when they show up, you know, because it's really
Speaker 1: hard sometimes for me to you know, get this person
Speaker 1: and you feel bad as a guide, you know, to
Speaker 1: get this person to spend all this extra money, whether
Speaker 1: we're on clothing, a gun, optics, whatever, it may be
Speaker 1: a pack but it's like, listen, I want you to
Speaker 1: be the most comfortable person that you can possibly be
Speaker 1: out here on the mountain, because this ten days could
Speaker 1: be the most miserable time of your entire life. And
Speaker 1: so if you go by our structure of gear and whatnot,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's my fault. If I tell you to
Speaker 1: get some in it and it fails on you on
Speaker 1: the hunt, well that's my fault. But I don't want
Speaker 1: to have you show up something that you think will work,
Speaker 1: but yet I know it won't work, And so I
Speaker 1: at least have to speak my piece. These people try
Speaker 1: to getting prepared and and you know, just be comfortable
Speaker 1: on the hunt. You know, it's like showing up in
Speaker 1: good shape. I take that very very seriously, physical conditioning
Speaker 1: and whatnot. I want people to be happy and and
Speaker 1: uh and and comfortable on these hunts. And so that's
Speaker 1: where it's all kind of That's what I really feel
Speaker 1: like is the most important in my aspect is preparing
Speaker 1: people and getting them ready for their hunts, and in
Speaker 1: these companies understanding on what these types of what these
Speaker 1: people can get into potentially. Well, yeah, because you wouldn't
Speaker 1: make you want to make gear for the harshest climates, right,
Speaker 1: you want to be a company you should want to.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't want to. I mean, yeah, you want to
Speaker 1: make a profit, but you should aspire to your world
Speaker 1: that's aspired to Kodiak and make make products that can
Speaker 1: stand up to that place. Because if we can stand
Speaker 1: up to Kodiak, do pretty good anywhere. That there's the
Speaker 1: reason why the Navy Seals have a training base there,
Speaker 1: and that's where you know they're testing out all their
Speaker 1: mountain gear, getting it lined out. And that's how I
Speaker 1: met John Barklow. You know, when I moved in two
Speaker 1: thousand two. I think Barklow moved there as well around
Speaker 1: two thousand two, and I met him. I was at
Speaker 1: a um at a volunteer search and rescue. My dad's
Speaker 1: a firefighter, and I always want to be a firefighter.
Speaker 1: But when the outfits of Workwood said, you know, if
Speaker 1: you really want to make a difference and like be
Speaker 1: more you know, helpful in the mountains, you maybe want
Speaker 1: to look at this mountain rescue team. And so I
Speaker 1: just joined a volunteer mountain rescue team with a bunch
Speaker 1: of the locals and and Barklow came in one time.
Speaker 1: I didn't know him. A buddy came in to explain
Speaker 1: gear to us, explain clothing and how it should be worn,
Speaker 1: because a lot of us, yeah, we're in a mountain
Speaker 1: rescue team, but we're just there as volunteers trying to help.
Speaker 1: We don't really know what we're doing. Okay, we're there
Speaker 1: to learn and to help people. And so Barklow is
Speaker 1: there and and gave a talk. I mean it just
Speaker 1: was ingrained in my head. It was like doors being like, wow,
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Okay, that makes sense because I was
Speaker 1: back in the day. When I say back to day,
Speaker 1: it makes it sound old, but like realistically, unless you
Speaker 1: were really paying attention to mountaineering stuff and following that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Remember, social media wasn't really like all
Speaker 1: these chat rooms and whatnot. Maybe they had, maybe they
Speaker 1: went on, but I didn't. I didn't look at any
Speaker 1: of that stuff. I didn't read any of that stuff.
Speaker 1: I would just go into these gear shops and think
Speaker 1: to myself, Oh, maybe this would work, maybe that would work,
Speaker 1: and we'd all come up with their own little systems
Speaker 1: or like you see systems at Cabela's that's on the
Speaker 1: same page. So I think you'd buy that whole set
Speaker 1: thinking about what was offered at Cabela's ten years ago.
Speaker 1: Think about what was offered at all ten years ago.
Speaker 1: How old is Sitka? Yeah, it's yeah, they were, It's
Speaker 1: about about them. They were just just becoming Yeah it's
Speaker 1: a leaven reality eleven years yeah, somewhere there. So they
Speaker 1: were a tiny outfit then just getting just getting going.
Speaker 1: And imagine you know what spawned out of that idea.
Speaker 1: UM is a move in in the hunting industry to
Speaker 1: go further but be comfortable as you're doing it, UM.
Speaker 1: And that's been it's been spurred on by companies like
Speaker 1: six your gear UM for for hunts to be more
Speaker 1: hardcore and to be you know, guided sometimes, but also
Speaker 1: just hey, this is the gear built for somebody that's
Speaker 1: gonna adventure. Sure, well, you just never know. I was
Speaker 1: just talking with a guy UM over there bay Portral
Speaker 1: it just a bit ago, you know, and he's gonna
Speaker 1: come up to go um blacktail hunting UM on Kodiak
Speaker 1: and and it was more and I was telling him
Speaker 1: about our experience and whatnot, and I said, you know,
Speaker 1: when you show up, just be prepared, you know. And
Speaker 1: and a lot of guys are you know, feel very
Speaker 1: comfortable about camping and this and that the other. But
Speaker 1: it's like you really don't understand until you're a hundred
Speaker 1: miles from anywhere and you're blowing eighty and it's snowing
Speaker 1: sideways in your camp is caving in on you, and
Speaker 1: things are getting real, like very very real, and so
Speaker 1: you really can't stress enough about being prepared with with
Speaker 1: the right gear and physically, mentally everything being prepared. And
Speaker 1: so we are very very blessed at this point in time.
Speaker 1: All everyone out there listening is we are all so
Speaker 1: blessed right now with with there are I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: I wear six Gear, that is what I've totally believe in,
Speaker 1: but there are other great companies out there right now
Speaker 1: that are making great gear, and that's what happens with
Speaker 1: companies that do that. Yet he is a great example
Speaker 1: of the same thing. You set the bar and then
Speaker 1: people are gonna come and chase that bar and try
Speaker 1: to jump it. And I think it's only good for hunters,
Speaker 1: that's really good for consumers. It's great because it keeps
Speaker 1: pushing people, you know, it keeps pushing um the other guys.
Speaker 1: And you know, when guys show up to my camp
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at what they're wearing, and I you know,
Speaker 1: I go over and I'm touching it or you don't know,
Speaker 1: and I ask questions and and we all have our opinions.
Speaker 1: But as a guide, UM, I get blessed with seen
Speaker 1: all the wonderful things that happened to clothing. And people
Speaker 1: can give their spiels all they want, but I get
Speaker 1: to see firsthand what actually happens to other guys clothing.
Speaker 1: And it could be the same brand I'm wearing, or
Speaker 1: it could be some other brand, and um, but I
Speaker 1: get to see the wear and tear. I don't care
Speaker 1: if it's packs, rain gear, whatever it is. Um. You know.
Speaker 1: Bottom line with me is I can guarantee you that
Speaker 1: I do not like being cold and wet. And I
Speaker 1: live on Kodiak Island and guide in the cheegatch and
Speaker 1: guide wherever shit happens around the world. I don't like
Speaker 1: being cold and wet, and I honestly can't remember the
Speaker 1: last time that I was miserable out in the environment,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. And but with that said, you have
Speaker 1: to understand how to where that. I mean, It's like
Speaker 1: me my MacBook Pro. I mean, I buy it and
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, oh sweet, look at all this cool stuff
Speaker 1: you can do. And well, I know how to turn
Speaker 1: it on, write some emails, so with some photos and
Speaker 1: and that's really all I really know how to do
Speaker 1: to do with it. But you know, when a guy
Speaker 1: really knows what they're doing with their gear or with
Speaker 1: that piece of equipment, it goes so much further. And um,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge, huge, huge, you know, advocate of just
Speaker 1: like I'm always watching my clients. I'm always paying attention
Speaker 1: to them while they're hiking, and I'm watching them get
Speaker 1: get hot. And a huge issue with people is they're
Speaker 1: wearing their rain gear and they're wearing too much clothing
Speaker 1: underneath or the wrong type of clothing underneath, and they sweat.
Speaker 1: Then before you know what, they're saying, all this ranger sucks. Man.
Speaker 1: I got wet, Well, it was raining and it's horrible
Speaker 1: and I got really cold, and it's like, well did
Speaker 1: you strip down? Did you? Were you wearing all your
Speaker 1: layers where? You know, all these people keep their jackets
Speaker 1: zipped all the way up. You know, it's a vicious
Speaker 1: cycle when you get uh, sweaty hot, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, now you get cold, and but they
Speaker 1: don't want to unzip and let breathe. You know, well, yeah, vents.
Speaker 1: I mean all these top top flight rain gear all
Speaker 1: has vents in it. And that's right, that's right, and
Speaker 1: but it's it is. It is something where I have
Speaker 1: to almost argue with people sometimes like hey, you need
Speaker 1: to take that off. No, I'm good, Nope, you need
Speaker 1: to take it off, trust me. And it's like I
Speaker 1: have to. I almost had to treat some of my
Speaker 1: hunters like children sometimes because they're not used to. When
Speaker 1: I came up to Kodiak, I think I had it
Speaker 1: all though. I was square on, like I had the
Speaker 1: right you know, sick of puffy, all the down stuff
Speaker 1: I needed to have, had the right synthetics, right rain gear,
Speaker 1: but I don't have the right gloves. Remember we were
Speaker 1: skinning that deer and I'm like, my gloves. I had
Speaker 1: three pairs of gloves in my pack and they were
Speaker 1: all soaked and they were all screwed. Rightever, They're like,
Speaker 1: look at these gloves, My hands are hot. Did you
Speaker 1: want to pair of these? I got two on. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I have three pairs of gloves and I
Speaker 1: ended up wearing my rubber gloves that I brought for
Speaker 1: taking rafts in and out of ever whatever on the
Speaker 1: way out because my hands are so cold. Right, So
Speaker 1: it's those little things, you know, I think I was
Speaker 1: probably there, But this is that you forget the right
Speaker 1: gloves or you don't think about what gloves you might
Speaker 1: have to have in those situations. Yeah, a lot, a
Speaker 1: lot of people aren't used to that, and and I do.
Speaker 1: I remember talking to John Barklow when he was UM
Speaker 1: came in and chatted with us about gear and I
Speaker 1: and we got two gloves and he said, man, gloves
Speaker 1: are the weakest point and in all gear. And I
Speaker 1: remember I remember saying something of that nature, saying, everyone
Speaker 1: is different. Everyone's circulation is different, you know, with their hands.
Speaker 1: Like me, I were mittens a lot because on the
Speaker 1: sides of my fingers if I have UM tighter fitting
Speaker 1: fingered gloves on, UM, I my circulation gets cut off
Speaker 1: and my hands get really cold. And the biggest misconception,
Speaker 1: I think, like when people are wearing mittens, even they'll
Speaker 1: wear a little liner glove on underneath it in their
Speaker 1: hands are like, oh man, I its are still cold.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like we'll take those off, you know,
Speaker 1: like I I do better with it, just my you know,
Speaker 1: being able to touch my own skin underneath the mitten
Speaker 1: and instead of having um, all these extra tight gloves on.
Speaker 1: The worst thing you can do is have tight gloves on.
Speaker 1: I feel and um, you know, I'll carry some handwarmers occasionally,
Speaker 1: and it's funny they'll sit in my bag forever, and
Speaker 1: then finally one day, like while I'm glassing for bears,
Speaker 1: I'll say, okay, maybe I'll break out those handworms. And
Speaker 1: it's always like, gosh, why didn't I freaking do that
Speaker 1: ten days ago? These are nice, but but gloves are
Speaker 1: a tough one, you know, they really really are. Everyone's
Speaker 1: circulation is different, but bottom line is you need to
Speaker 1: have like I wear a lot of times. I'll have
Speaker 1: a thin pair of leather gloves just for hiking in
Speaker 1: you know, I trip and stumble every every once I'm
Speaker 1: breaking branches out of the trail, So I like to
Speaker 1: have a light, um, a light set of leather gloves on, UM,
Speaker 1: so no thorns or anything can get through UM. And
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, tearing up the material of like
Speaker 1: a you know, some soft shell glove want breaking branches
Speaker 1: or using my machette or whatever. But um, you know,
Speaker 1: you need to have you need to think, Okay, what situations,
Speaker 1: you know, And maybe it's three pairs of gloves. You
Speaker 1: have a light a light pair, you know, maybe an
Speaker 1: insulating pair, and then a waterproof pair. And I'm really
Speaker 1: big advocate of like on these on these UM rain
Speaker 1: gloves and the waterproof gloves. They need to be a
Speaker 1: glove that you can take a liner out to dry.
Speaker 1: That's the only way you'll ever be able to dry
Speaker 1: them out in a in a spike camp scenario, pull
Speaker 1: the liner out. And a lot of times if they're wet,
Speaker 1: I'll put them in my little side pockets of my pants,
Speaker 1: you know, and I'll sleep with them in my in
Speaker 1: my side pockets of my pants. That's the only way
Speaker 1: you can dry them out. If you don't have a
Speaker 1: heating element in your tent of any sort. See, just
Speaker 1: wear your clothes, you know. And that was the other thing,
Speaker 1: you know, learning that from John years ago and um
Speaker 1: and just some of the guides I knew, you know,
Speaker 1: if you got wet in your gear, because no matter
Speaker 1: what you have, you're gonna sweat or whatever may happen. Right,
Speaker 1: I mean, how you could hit a hit a branch
Speaker 1: and it and it rips something on your pants or
Speaker 1: something like that, a rock or something, and and you're
Speaker 1: gonna get wet occasionally or fall in the river. That's
Speaker 1: the biggest thing that I think about when I have
Speaker 1: an extra set, an extra set of close at camp.
Speaker 1: I don't just change into those clothes when I get stinky,
Speaker 1: I change into those clothes. That's a backup pair for
Speaker 1: if I fall in the river and get wet or
Speaker 1: or something like that. I would fall in a creek
Speaker 1: or something like that, or my hunter get is hypothermic
Speaker 1: or whatever happened and maybe he falls on river. So
Speaker 1: it's a backup for that. But if you need to
Speaker 1: dry out, the only way you're gonna do that in
Speaker 1: a spike camp scenario is climb in your sleeping bag
Speaker 1: and dry out, you know, and you gotta wear it
Speaker 1: and it will seem a little bit uncomfortable at first,
Speaker 1: but it heats up. And that's that's mainly. With a
Speaker 1: synthetic bag, you can do that. I you know, can
Speaker 1: you get away with with with that dry down? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't it won't handle the same way as
Speaker 1: a sythetic moisture. Well that the down, the down goes
Speaker 1: goes limp and over time, I don't care what what
Speaker 1: you have when it talks about this fantastic, amazing dry
Speaker 1: down stuff. I personally it wears out over time when
Speaker 1: you're when you are taking it out and and compressing,
Speaker 1: and you're taking it out, compressing out, compressing, you do
Speaker 1: that a billion times. Well it's you end up kind
Speaker 1: of wearing it out. But regardless um regards, it's just
Speaker 1: all this stuff's fascinating me. And I know we're in
Speaker 1: a time where it's very fascinating for a lot of people,
Speaker 1: you know, to learn about all this stuff. We're very
Speaker 1: very fortunate we are. We're fortunate to be in a
Speaker 1: bus or where both of us are. It's raining and poor.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's miserable outside. Dude, it's just
Speaker 1: a mud puddle. Nobody is outside. This has been the
Speaker 1: hangout bus. It's funny. There'll be fiber you know, eight
Speaker 1: people hanging out in the bus and here we are
Speaker 1: podcasting and everyone has to stand outside while we're in there.
Speaker 1: All yeah, we're dicks. They're like, you have hot coke code.
Speaker 1: It's so warm with the bus calling. I've both taken
Speaker 1: naps in the bus today as well, it's very nice.
Speaker 1: Thank you saying for the bus. Very nice. I would say, like,
Speaker 1: I think you and I have a couple of pretty
Speaker 1: good stories to tell. I feel, ah, they might if
Speaker 1: we try to combine them both into one podcast, it might.
Speaker 1: This might end up be in three hours. I don't
Speaker 1: call it. What was it about hunting? We were hunting? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't really recall our adventures. Well, I'll walk you
Speaker 1: through them. Oh, I remember, Oh, I remember I was there.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think, Um, I don't know, man.
Speaker 1: I remember being a different person, probably before I started
Speaker 1: working at YETI maybe before I started working at Peterson Sunning,
Speaker 1: and just being a regular hunter and thinking thinking about adventures,
Speaker 1: adventure type hunting or mountain hunting or things of that nature,
Speaker 1: has this law far off reality, And then also thinking
Speaker 1: at the time the gear needed to do that was silly.
Speaker 1: You know, nobody could ever afford it. Um, nobody would
Speaker 1: ever aspire to spend that much on the hunt and
Speaker 1: the gear, and what would you really get? Why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you just you know, stay home and shoot a white tail.
Speaker 1: I remember that being in my mind for a long time,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that I ever had the aspiration.
Speaker 1: I never read um hunting magazines or watched TV with
Speaker 1: some aspiration to go to the Yukon with Jim Shock,
Speaker 1: can shoot a moose or anything like that. I just
Speaker 1: always felt pretty happy at home and pretty normal, not
Speaker 1: not want to do those things. But as I've been
Speaker 1: lucky enough to do some of that stuff, it's changed
Speaker 1: me in a way that I don't know that i'll
Speaker 1: ever I'll ever be able to put my finger on
Speaker 1: or ever be able to explain. And I think you know,
Speaker 1: in my experience with you is like the consistent exposure
Speaker 1: to those strug is man, it makes you appreciate every
Speaker 1: little opportunity to have in life, whether it's go out
Speaker 1: to the bar with your buddies or go to a
Speaker 1: trade show, or take a shower, take a shower, clean socks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will remember that shower we took in Catman do
Speaker 1: for the rest of my not together shower And I
Speaker 1: mean it was Conserva water. You know, we're environmentalists, but yeah,
Speaker 1: those types of things when you when you come off
Speaker 1: with those adventures, and I don't I've tried to probably
Speaker 1: over time, explain what it feels like in the perspective
Speaker 1: it gives you and like, what, um, what the meaning is?
Speaker 1: And and I must. I was listening to Rogan's podcast
Speaker 1: with Dennis McKenna this morning. I was getting ready and
Speaker 1: they were talking about how psychedelics kind of give you
Speaker 1: this weird view of reality because you're in psychedelics, you
Speaker 1: start to see things in different lights. So Joe was
Speaker 1: talking about driving down a paved road and seeing thinking
Speaker 1: about this road normally, like it's a road, and I
Speaker 1: don't have to think about that anymore. It's a road,
Speaker 1: it's a paved road. I drive down it every day.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shut my mind off and I don't have
Speaker 1: to think about what I'm actually doing because I'm driving
Speaker 1: on the road. Everybody does it, there's no need to
Speaker 1: examine it. But then when you know he expands his
Speaker 1: minds via psychedelics, he's thinking, damn, what am I doing this?
Speaker 1: We've chosen to pave over this area and roll over
Speaker 1: it and one ton machine like we're weird. Humans are weird.
Speaker 1: And I feel probably in a less aggressive way than
Speaker 1: the taking mushrooms, but coming back from these adventure hunts, man,
Speaker 1: I feel almost like that, like you're you're exposed to
Speaker 1: the harshness of the world, and then all the niceties
Speaker 1: of the world seem odd like, it seems like this,
Speaker 1: this thing that is normal to us is not normal
Speaker 1: to the world. Paved roads are not what nature and
Speaker 1: the natural world provided. We've done that the smooth over
Speaker 1: the rough points in our existence, and I remember, and
Speaker 1: I remember just thinking about that. Even in this morning,
Speaker 1: I was getting a share of thinking about hunting. Being
Speaker 1: exposed to true adventure hunting like you've done. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it changes you in ways that you're not really
Speaker 1: you never really know until maybe you're done with it retired. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely for me, That's what I believe. Obviously,
Speaker 1: when people UM call me and they want to book
Speaker 1: a hunt, you know, UM, they're they're they're you know,
Speaker 1: part of their goal and maybe the main part of
Speaker 1: their goal was to come on a brown bear hunt
Speaker 1: and get their bear um or their dear or you know,
Speaker 1: you want to go get your elk or wherever it.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's fine, But with me, UM, it has morphed
Speaker 1: into and I think this happened after spending so much
Speaker 1: time in the field and experiencing like what you mentioned,
Speaker 1: how you feel afterwards that I absolutely truly enjoy giving
Speaker 1: that feeling to people. Not to be um confused with
Speaker 1: a guide that loves breaking people and loves putting them
Speaker 1: to through misery. That is not absolutely not what I
Speaker 1: have ever enjoyed doing. Where you hear many guides who
Speaker 1: you hear about these stories, these young guides or whatever
Speaker 1: that just want to break their hunters. No, um, my,
Speaker 1: my absolute joy is doing exactly what you you said,
Speaker 1: is taking people, exposing them to um the elements and
Speaker 1: showing them that you can survive. We are okay, um,
Speaker 1: We're able to get through this and to do it
Speaker 1: in a fairly you know, easy manner once you do
Speaker 1: actually know how to do it. It's just I feel
Speaker 1: like that expands your mind. Even though the example you
Speaker 1: gave of being in a sleeping bag and being uncomfortable,
Speaker 1: you know, like your your it range your wet. First
Speaker 1: thing you want to do a strip off your clothes
Speaker 1: and getting sleem be comfortable. But if the quickest way
Speaker 1: to be warm the next day is to stay wet
Speaker 1: and getting your sleeping bag, then that's what you have
Speaker 1: to do. That's an expansion of what your your willingness
Speaker 1: to be miserable and you're It's an expansion of your
Speaker 1: mindset right as a human. You have to think when
Speaker 1: you're going to be out there. You always have to
Speaker 1: think ahead. I don't care what. I don't care what's
Speaker 1: It starts on the stage before you get on the airplane,
Speaker 1: when you hand them your backpack. Where is your rain gear?
Speaker 1: Is it in the bottom or is it on top?
Speaker 1: Maybe you have it on, maybe it don't, but always
Speaker 1: have it close by. It starts at the very very
Speaker 1: beginning um to every single point of your day of
Speaker 1: anything you do out there, you have to think ahead.
Speaker 1: Even if it's miserable, you have to go outside and
Speaker 1: do it. Do I really want to drop down a
Speaker 1: thousand feet to get water right now? No? But if
Speaker 1: I wake up at five am and want, you know,
Speaker 1: and want to stay up on the ridge line, you
Speaker 1: go look at these rams. I don't want to. I
Speaker 1: mean I want to get up and have coffee and
Speaker 1: have my oatmeal. I better go down and get the
Speaker 1: water right now, otherwise it's gonna be miserable in the
Speaker 1: morning or whatever. You know, just every aspect you know,
Speaker 1: tying your tent down appropriately. If you don't do it now,
Speaker 1: I call it the Chinese fire drill, no offense. But uh,
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night you wake up your
Speaker 1: tents flapping. It's something's broke. You gotta fix it. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have every single aspect. I micromanage everything out there
Speaker 1: to a t because I know what can happen over time,
Speaker 1: and you have to think about it. Um, well, how
Speaker 1: much time does that take to get normal? Because I
Speaker 1: found like and hunting with you or you know, doing
Speaker 1: all these types of hunts. As you get out there,
Speaker 1: I feel like the normal world, the real world that
Speaker 1: I live in, the day to day life dolls me up.
Speaker 1: Like about was a knife, I'd be rusty and doll
Speaker 1: after about a month. And then I get out there
Speaker 1: and it usually takes me a day or two to sharpen.
Speaker 1: And then by the time I'm done, I'm sharp as fuck.
Speaker 1: And then by and I go back and I feel
Speaker 1: depressed to be back and be getting rusty again. And
Speaker 1: I've had this. My wife talks about all the times,
Speaker 1: serious problem with getting back and being super depressed. Not right.
Speaker 1: I get through it, sure, but you feel like you're
Speaker 1: starting to get rusty again, and you can see it
Speaker 1: in your own mind. You're like, man, I'm starting to
Speaker 1: get frustrated by traffic, and I'm starting to get frustrated
Speaker 1: by my email not working, when I'm starting to get
Speaker 1: frustrated by my phone the text not going through, or
Speaker 1: something like are you frustrated with people? Yeah, frustrating and
Speaker 1: get people frustrated with people very easily because they don't
Speaker 1: they don't respect and they don't know what they have,
Speaker 1: where as us that do spend time out and I
Speaker 1: go back. You know, it's really really changed me in
Speaker 1: a anner to appreciate people like I probably you know,
Speaker 1: I've always loved my parents, but I guarantee you after um,
Speaker 1: being in the woods and being out with no contact
Speaker 1: or you know, because back in the day I didn't
Speaker 1: have a satellite phone. I mean i'd be with someone
Speaker 1: sometimes add a satellite phone, or maybe at radio or whatever.
Speaker 1: But um, I always I felt after a few circumstances
Speaker 1: that have happened with me, whether it be you know,
Speaker 1: almost falling off a mountain or bear charge of me
Speaker 1: and about grabbing me, um to just any little thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I go back and just appreciate my family,
Speaker 1: appreciate my friends. I remember, like the first few times
Speaker 1: I went home after moving to Alaska, and just seeing
Speaker 1: my friends, you know, all these pitily little things that
Speaker 1: people were whining and griping about, um uh, you know
Speaker 1: about oh well we don't like this guy anymore, we
Speaker 1: don't like this person more, or oh gosh, can you
Speaker 1: believe this? And I was just like, wow, I can't
Speaker 1: believe this, Like I I don't understand why these people
Speaker 1: are being like that, like because I just I remember
Speaker 1: seeing people that maybe I didn't really like him at
Speaker 1: one point in time, but I'd seem like, hey, how
Speaker 1: are you doing, how are you man? What's up? How
Speaker 1: are you? You know? And I got to a point
Speaker 1: where I could honestly say there was no one that
Speaker 1: I had an issue with, period or or I just
Speaker 1: appreciated things. And I think that that's what upsets me
Speaker 1: is when I see people squabbling over these frivolous things
Speaker 1: that mean nothing, and and to me, we are out
Speaker 1: there and we I mean, when we got back from
Speaker 1: our Codiac trip, which we can dive into whenever, but
Speaker 1: it's just we will after that trip. I mean obviously
Speaker 1: there that was you know for you guys, well for everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, there's some some big mental screws in that thing.
Speaker 1: And so when you when you come out of a
Speaker 1: trip like that, it's uh, it makes you appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So I like, as you're talking, I'm thinking about this
Speaker 1: could be a terrible analogy, but thinking about as you
Speaker 1: you know, if you're a knife and the regular life
Speaker 1: dolls you up, that makes it harder to cut through life. Right,
Speaker 1: So the dollars you become, the softer you become in
Speaker 1: regular life, the harder it is to get through situations
Speaker 1: because you don't have the ability to see the entire picture.
Speaker 1: So smaller things become harder to cut through because you're
Speaker 1: just soft and your doll and you you don't you're
Speaker 1: not sharp enough to tackle challenges. But then you go
Speaker 1: out and do these you know, whether it's ten days
Speaker 1: or five days, what, it doesn't matter the amount of time.
Speaker 1: With these things that challenge you to break through mental
Speaker 1: barriers and to break through physical berries into into you know,
Speaker 1: push yourself to two limits. Your your mind is expanded
Speaker 1: and you're sharper and you can cut through the bullshit
Speaker 1: of life so much faster because you don't have to
Speaker 1: because you have the ability to be like, that's a
Speaker 1: fucking matter. At least I don't have to walk down
Speaker 1: a thousand feet to get waters, like I'm in traffic.
Speaker 1: But I got air conditioning, I got heated seats, and
Speaker 1: I got sure sparkling water in a damn eddie cup.
Speaker 1: I'll be all right. Yeah, at least I don't have
Speaker 1: to wake up and and hike down to the creek
Speaker 1: and right and try to avoid bears while I get
Speaker 1: my water. Yeah you uh, yeah, you're sitting at your
Speaker 1: feet or feeling a little sword like, well, at least
Speaker 1: they're not wet. At least I'm not hiking twenty miles
Speaker 1: up a river, you know, with sopping wet, blistered feet.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, like you say, every aspect is
Speaker 1: um is made a little bit easier in life, I think,
Speaker 1: and you appreciate more, um, going on adventures and so
Speaker 1: like for me, I really you know, Um, yes, I
Speaker 1: do happen to get blessed with harvesting some large animals
Speaker 1: in the guide in our guide service. Um, we live
Speaker 1: and work in an amazing place. Um yeah that's great.
Speaker 1: But I we take some really big brown bears and
Speaker 1: do we get tin foot bears? Yeah? We do, um,
Speaker 1: you know, but it it really I'm at a place
Speaker 1: out with with my hunting that my goals are to
Speaker 1: harvest old mature animals. Okay, it doesn't always have but
Speaker 1: that's what we strive for. I do. I honestly don't
Speaker 1: care about the I hate the numbers game, absolutely hate it.
Speaker 1: And I realized that's the way that we major animals
Speaker 1: and whatnot. And just so maybe when you're telling a story,
Speaker 1: how big was that whitetail, and you can tell him
Speaker 1: a score of it? Okay, now I got how big
Speaker 1: it was. I understand that, you know, And so yes,
Speaker 1: we do tell people, but I absolutely love it. When
Speaker 1: I I had a guy I talked to you the
Speaker 1: day was actually from pratt Um, but he called me.
Speaker 1: We haven't we haven't talked him forever. He's he's must
Speaker 1: be eight years older. Mean, I just barely knew hi
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. But he says, cool, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd really like to come up and do a sheep hunter,
Speaker 1: a bear hunt. I'm at that place now financially I
Speaker 1: think I can do it, Um, But I'm just you know, man,
Speaker 1: I've been out to call out with my buddies and
Speaker 1: I really really enjoy the adventure of that. And he goes,
Speaker 1: that's what I'm kind of looking for. He goes, I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not really into the biggest um trophy and animal size,
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know really what that size is
Speaker 1: for these animals. But I'm really kind of looking for
Speaker 1: an adventure. And that's what I thankfully, that's what a
Speaker 1: lot of my hunters are here for, is an adventure.
Speaker 1: And they are there and they appreciate the animals there
Speaker 1: there to collect their meat as well. Um, And so
Speaker 1: it's it's that is what I love. I love the adventures.
Speaker 1: And people can say, well, maybe she's just not taking
Speaker 1: big animals, and so that's why that's why he's saying.
Speaker 1: It's it's you know, yeah, we take that. I just
Speaker 1: but I don't. I just want if I you know,
Speaker 1: it's why I don't typically put the size of the
Speaker 1: animals on my Instagram or whatever. I mean, I just hey,
Speaker 1: it's a great old mature bear. Okay. I don't need
Speaker 1: to a dick measuring contest with some guy whatever. I'm
Speaker 1: there to, um, you know, you know, show the respect
Speaker 1: of the animal to it's you know, try to have
Speaker 1: a nice photo whatever it may be. But that's what
Speaker 1: I have tried to expose people to these types of
Speaker 1: adventures to help grow them. You know, is it cool
Speaker 1: to hunt with someone that really knows their stuff in
Speaker 1: the field. Oh, it's awesome. I love it when it's
Speaker 1: a team effort, you know. That's what I try to
Speaker 1: do things as a team effort, not just um, be
Speaker 1: the dictator on the hunt and have to tell everyone
Speaker 1: what to do all the time. Um, it's a teamwork effort.
Speaker 1: But I also really love I get. I have some
Speaker 1: guys that are very new to hunting and they've hunted
Speaker 1: a little bit, but very new to mountain hunting. And
Speaker 1: it's really cool that they've absolutely there to soak it
Speaker 1: up like a sponge. They they ask a billion questions,
Speaker 1: but they ask it in the right way, you know.
Speaker 1: They ask it in a way that you know they're
Speaker 1: just wanting to learn, and they soak it up. There's
Speaker 1: no ego, you know, And that's what I really that's
Speaker 1: what I really I love doing now. Um. Well, not
Speaker 1: that we would be here to issue some referendum on
Speaker 1: the guiding community or outfit in community, but you know,
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is selling and the selling experience
Speaker 1: instead of an animal, you know, because you really can't
Speaker 1: sell the animals there's no you can't. If you if
Speaker 1: you can begin to predict, then it's no longer hunting.
Speaker 1: And so you can only sell the experience and say, like,
Speaker 1: here's an examples of things that we've done, animals that
Speaker 1: we've taken. Here's the examples. Right, this is what it is.
Speaker 1: It's a tapestry, big, small, blonde, brown, whatever. Um, But
Speaker 1: the experience is the same every time. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a struggle. You're gonna be challenged to be patient, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna be challenged to be tough. You're gonna be
Speaker 1: challenged to be um, you know, to embrace things that
Speaker 1: you don't don't understand and tackle challenges you couldn't imagine.
Speaker 1: But at the end, that is going to be always
Speaker 1: the same, and what will change is the result. Something
Speaker 1: will change along the way. Whether you kill a world
Speaker 1: record x y z or you kill representative x y z. Uh, Well,
Speaker 1: do you make a great shot or a bad shot?
Speaker 1: Like that's all those are part of the the end
Speaker 1: result of the experience that you'll have doing it. I
Speaker 1: don't you know, Like I said, I don't. Guiding is
Speaker 1: what it is. There's a lot of money in it, um,
Speaker 1: But I think that that whole community could do well
Speaker 1: to try to shift to you know, your mindset rather
Speaker 1: than um flip you know, trade shows with giant heads
Speaker 1: and trying to lwer people in based on that the
Speaker 1: idea that you could kill something big and those situations. Well,
Speaker 1: and with us, like with my brown bears, okay, um,
Speaker 1: with my personal mindset, and in most obviously all guides
Speaker 1: and hunters want to kill the biggest bear or the
Speaker 1: biggest as big as that. That's tip, that's tip, that's normal. Um.
Speaker 1: But with my mindset, I only we only like to
Speaker 1: kill old mature boars. Okay, those are the ones that
Speaker 1: are the issue, the problem. Bears that do know exact
Speaker 1: actually how to go through their life, whether and try
Speaker 1: to approach a sal that won't mate with him because
Speaker 1: she's got cubs, so no problem. He knows how to
Speaker 1: kill them because he knows that will set her back
Speaker 1: in the heat and so, and if she doesn't want
Speaker 1: to do that and she puts up a fight, then
Speaker 1: he just kills her and eats her too. Um. So
Speaker 1: with that said, I don't even I don't know. I've
Speaker 1: never heard a number from fishing game of the cub mortality.
Speaker 1: But we know it's high. And it's not just from
Speaker 1: the boars killing them. They die naturally, but I but
Speaker 1: I guarantee they they take out several thousand cups. Feel like,
Speaker 1: you know the other things you're thinking about from mortality
Speaker 1: rates to be predation gather. There's not a whole lot
Speaker 1: of predation on bear cubs. It's just with bears. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what other bears other bears, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and like but we're yeah, and where I was
Speaker 1: going with that is as is a biologically like what
Speaker 1: what I we're trying to do is to harvest those
Speaker 1: old boars that are the problem ones, that that kill
Speaker 1: the other bears and therefore lower their population. Fishing game
Speaker 1: allows us to harvest you know, um whatever. We have
Speaker 1: a certain amount of tags or whatnot that they give
Speaker 1: for each area. By not they don't say, hey, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll let you guys kill some bears for rugs here, okay,
Speaker 1: and for trophy amounts. Okay, that's not it's it's too.
Speaker 1: It's for the population control, okay, for a conservation type
Speaker 1: of effort too, to have the right population of bears
Speaker 1: or to increase And so therefore with us targeting those
Speaker 1: old mature boars. We're actually increasing the amount of bears
Speaker 1: in our areas. It is unbelievable the amount of bears
Speaker 1: that used to be in our areas versus what are
Speaker 1: there now of where an area specifically that I've hunted
Speaker 1: for many, many many years thirteen years me, I don't
Speaker 1: recall but several years. And that I mean that area
Speaker 1: we would never see susand cups, and now I mean
Speaker 1: we see him every day, and I mean there there's
Speaker 1: been times where I've seen five sets of thousand cubs
Speaker 1: and they've all got two to three um salusand cups.
Speaker 1: So me deeply on the side, and you know, part
Speaker 1: of me, I could have a hunter there that's wanting
Speaker 1: to do he has his own agenda whatever. But to me,
Speaker 1: in my mind set, it's like me looking over my
Speaker 1: crop as a farmer, and I'm extremely pleased, no like
Speaker 1: seeing what what we have done. Okay, I don't feel
Speaker 1: like we're hunting too many bears or whatever. And truth
Speaker 1: be told, we're the first ones to step up as
Speaker 1: a guide because we get to see we're the first
Speaker 1: ones that step up and say maybe something to the biologist. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, here's I'm thinking I'm seeing something going on here.
Speaker 1: I thinks I see it both ways, because obviously is
Speaker 1: a wonderful topic for people to hate on, and we've
Speaker 1: done so much to anth for more on there said
Speaker 1: the word anthrow promorphize. That's a big word. I don't
Speaker 1: know what that means. I just heard someone. I heard
Speaker 1: someone else say it on the podcast. Um with you
Speaker 1: know my kid, my kids got a bear stuffed animal.
Speaker 1: He was just in Montana. He got to hug on
Speaker 1: a big bear stuff animal. He has one. He has
Speaker 1: bear pajamas, he has a bear. Books about bears riding bikes,
Speaker 1: and but there doesn't have any books about bears eating cubs.
Speaker 1: We yeah, we don't that too often. But then so
Speaker 1: you know, you put that emotional element into it once
Speaker 1: you've already you know, given these this animal a certain
Speaker 1: personality or certain away for for our minds to shape
Speaker 1: them as as the in their being. And then you
Speaker 1: got a guy like yourself is talking about him at
Speaker 1: like a crop. Right. Um, this is very pragmatic way
Speaker 1: to look at It's very common sense way to look
Speaker 1: at it. I care about these animals, care about all animals,
Speaker 1: and if I can kill some harvest them, take the meat,
Speaker 1: give somebody an experience, and also is built in our
Speaker 1: model of conservation. Two. Hunting as a tool, right, and
Speaker 1: it brings value to every animal and brings money to
Speaker 1: conservation efforts. And it's a tool for wildlife biologists to say, Cole,
Speaker 1: you and everybody like you kill this many and here's
Speaker 1: the tags, and then it's up to you to set
Speaker 1: the market for those tags and say how much they're worth,
Speaker 1: how much the hunters are worth, the experience is worth,
Speaker 1: and the animal at the end of the day is worth.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I'd love to hear from
Speaker 1: you on this, because I'm sure you run into a
Speaker 1: lot of people that question what you do for a living.
Speaker 1: But to me, that's pretty great way to have a
Speaker 1: human interaction with bears, rather than let it go unchecked
Speaker 1: and let our interaction with them just kind of be
Speaker 1: you know, last it's less substantial, it's less true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know if you when you when you when
Speaker 1: you book a hunt with me, you are coming on
Speaker 1: an amazing bear viewing trip. I mean we get to
Speaker 1: see and this goes with any outfitter. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: in general, when you book a brown bear hunt or whatnot.
Speaker 1: You were on the most awesome bear viewing trip that
Speaker 1: you could ever get it to go do. So you
Speaker 1: get to watch all these animals and if you want,
Speaker 1: if you want to offend me on a hunt, act
Speaker 1: like you don't care about the bears and you you
Speaker 1: don't care and you don't want to look at the bears.
Speaker 1: Because when I'm putting in the spotting scope on a
Speaker 1: soal and cup, look at the sow and cubs, and
Speaker 1: I've had some guys not care and not want to
Speaker 1: look at him and not you know, hey, no, just
Speaker 1: let me know when you see the big one. Okay,
Speaker 1: that offends me. I mean, I you want to upset me,
Speaker 1: That's what upsets me. Sure, I'm not gonna yell at someone,
Speaker 1: but it's just inside like, wow, what a prick? You know.
Speaker 1: I I love explaining things of people. It's my passion. Um.
Speaker 1: Bears are such an amazing animal. Absolutely love watching them.
Speaker 1: They do the most interesting things, funny things, um and
Speaker 1: just harsh things. I mean, it's mind blowing to me
Speaker 1: about how they can just run over and tackle a
Speaker 1: cub and just rip it apart. Oh yeah, how much
Speaker 1: how often do you see that I have only seen.
Speaker 1: I have probably three or four times. There was one
Speaker 1: time that totally amazed me. Um that we had a boar.
Speaker 1: We spooked a boar. We were trying to make a
Speaker 1: stock on him. We spooked him and he ran across
Speaker 1: the valley or not. Randy waddled and he went over
Speaker 1: and there was a sound a cub up there, and
Speaker 1: he went and he started going up to him, and
Speaker 1: it was a first year cub and he made his
Speaker 1: way up towards him, and the sound it was really
Speaker 1: steep face and she kept going or she abandoned her
Speaker 1: cub because she knew that, like, okay, I cannot withstand
Speaker 1: this big boar. He's gonna tear me up. She abandoned
Speaker 1: the cub, and the boar went over sniffed it, and
Speaker 1: I thought I was so upset. I mean, I was
Speaker 1: just freaking out in my mind, like, oh, I cannot
Speaker 1: believe that we screwed up this stock. He's gonna go
Speaker 1: over there, and he's now we just got this cub eaten.
Speaker 1: This sucks. And he went over and sniffed it, sat
Speaker 1: down and just like took a nap right next to it,
Speaker 1: and the cub just kind of scrambled away and got
Speaker 1: away from But that's like the only time that I've
Speaker 1: ever seen now whether or not that was his cub,
Speaker 1: you know, and he sniffed it knew it was. But um,
Speaker 1: that is the one time I've seen that. But I
Speaker 1: have seen three or four times um, cubs getting ripped
Speaker 1: apart or um or or seen like I saw like
Speaker 1: where there was a den and there was a boar
Speaker 1: that we actually went over on a stock because I
Speaker 1: could tell he was a boar, that I noticed another
Speaker 1: bear above it in the rocks, and then I noticed,
Speaker 1: finally I put it to to together it was blood
Speaker 1: in the snow and he had gotten in there and
Speaker 1: was eating the cubs out of a din. And the
Speaker 1: sow was above looking um, looking at him. Um, And
Speaker 1: so yeah it's it's UM. I'm pretty sure if anyone
Speaker 1: I don't care if you're you know, a non hunter
Speaker 1: or whatever, it maybe UM. I'm pretty sure if I
Speaker 1: was standing there with a gun and a non hunter
Speaker 1: who totally disagreed with bear hunting and loved animals, I
Speaker 1: saw this happening. I guarantee. After listening to these cubs
Speaker 1: being torn apart, screaming and the mom trying to get
Speaker 1: to the board of shoving her away, biting at her.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you would say take your gun and
Speaker 1: shoot him. He's bad, shoot him, make him stop, as
Speaker 1: you would would in humans. I mean, you would say,
Speaker 1: make that person stop. Um. It's unbelievable. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: there's not a human that just said, well, I guess
Speaker 1: that's nature, not even as are describing it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it's We've we've killed a number of boars that
Speaker 1: if you, um, look on my instagram. Um, this spring,
Speaker 1: we had a a young lady that came hunting with us.
Speaker 1: Heard her her husband, Um, and we saw a set
Speaker 1: of salent cubs going across this hillside and I had
Speaker 1: kind of you know, I washed them, and they were
Speaker 1: going the other way, and they were quite a ways off,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you know, I looked
Speaker 1: back and UM, my other guide that was with us,
Speaker 1: he scrambling running over to look at the spotting scope
Speaker 1: where they were because they were going around a corner.
Speaker 1: So we had to run out another hundred yards around
Speaker 1: the valley to look back up this other side valley.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, maybe he didn't see those salad
Speaker 1: cubs and he just saw the big sal and so
Speaker 1: he he it's the wrong bear or whatever. Well, those
Speaker 1: Salent cubs went through a ditch and there was a
Speaker 1: board lane in that ditch betted and the board jumped
Speaker 1: up and the sound cubs started running and he was
Speaker 1: going after him. He was his big fat bear and
Speaker 1: so he couldn't go very fast, but he was on
Speaker 1: or trail and that's what my guide saw. And so
Speaker 1: he hollers at me, and so we're looking at him
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, man, he's man, he's a
Speaker 1: long ways off, you know. And I told I told
Speaker 1: the um, the our lady that we had with us, Lisa.
Speaker 1: I said, man, it's a long ways, but I'd really
Speaker 1: like to give it a go if you think, you know,
Speaker 1: if you think you're up for it. And I said, man,
Speaker 1: he's gonna go kill those cubs. And she's like, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: And here you got a mom right that's hunting and
Speaker 1: she's got, you know, a few kids, and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can't let him do that. And you know, you know,
Speaker 1: she got around great, but you want to talk about
Speaker 1: light of fire on her someone that that was hiking
Speaker 1: with the purpose to get there before dark. And um,
Speaker 1: we hustled over there and he had him backed up
Speaker 1: to a cliff. And you can see this on my Instagram.
Speaker 1: I have some video of it, um and photos of it.
Speaker 1: Uh and so uh, he had him backed up there
Speaker 1: and we made our stock. We got we were making
Speaker 1: our way to go to try to get above him,
Speaker 1: and she wanted to try to get him with her bow,
Speaker 1: but we knew that this was more important just to
Speaker 1: get this or killed. And so we as we got closer, UM,
Speaker 1: I said, man, this is gonna be extremely risky for us.
Speaker 1: The only shot we had would have put us about
Speaker 1: ten yards from the salad cubs. And if that is
Speaker 1: the apps, if you want to think about the worst
Speaker 1: possible scenario in life, you can get next to a
Speaker 1: piste off sal who's getting threatened, getting threatened, and here
Speaker 1: you are another threat to the side. They they're just
Speaker 1: a tornado. And so UM we the that they in
Speaker 1: and actually the trail we were going to go on
Speaker 1: to get closer to him. Um, they end up bailing
Speaker 1: over the board kept pushing them and they bailed over
Speaker 1: towards us and and I said, I'm I'm I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: There's no bow shot, like they're they're coming right at us,
Speaker 1: like you know, the salad cubs would have to go
Speaker 1: over us basically for for our egos to get a
Speaker 1: bow shot, you know what I mean. And so she glad,
Speaker 1: you know, she took up rifle and as soon as
Speaker 1: he came over, I mean, she smoked him. You know.
Speaker 1: In the sound cubs were about fifteen yards to our right,
Speaker 1: and I was hollering and yelling at him, trying to
Speaker 1: get him, you know, let him know like, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: a human, I'm here, go the other way. And so
Speaker 1: they went the other way and they were fine, you know,
Speaker 1: but um that it just it just gave you this
Speaker 1: different sense, and it made you feel like you did
Speaker 1: something like okay, wow, you can get something you well right.
Speaker 1: And and so you get to watch that that mother
Speaker 1: and her and her kids go off and they're fine.
Speaker 1: But when you think, okay, how many times does that happen?
Speaker 1: Because he won't give up. He's not fast, but he'll
Speaker 1: never give up, and he just keeps following him throughout
Speaker 1: the night. He'll catch him and he'll catch him. There
Speaker 1: will happen. We'll just think about, you know, you go
Speaker 1: back into how we treat bears, Just think about how
Speaker 1: that bears mind works and how our mind works. Our
Speaker 1: mind works like, oh my gosh, why would you do that?
Speaker 1: Why would you kill an innocent thing? But we have
Speaker 1: the ability that could passion to have that go through
Speaker 1: our minds. That bear that's a killing robot, Like he's
Speaker 1: not thinking, oh, these poor little beings. He's thinking, I
Speaker 1: gotta eat and I gotta fuck. Yep, that's what he's thinking. Yep.
Speaker 1: And and and for us to take an animal with
Speaker 1: a mindset like that and to turn it into cartoons,
Speaker 1: and to turn it into pajamas, and to turn into
Speaker 1: stuffed animals, and to turn it into winning the Pooh,
Speaker 1: I can't. I've always thought, and it's always it's almost
Speaker 1: like a thing that what a hunter would think, or
Speaker 1: some right wing person might think to think, Um, how
Speaker 1: screwed up that is. But if you are listening to
Speaker 1: this and you try to break down your mind, how
Speaker 1: fucked up it is to take an animal with the
Speaker 1: mindset that you just described, that is an evil monster
Speaker 1: that you just described, a heartless, fucking killing machine. And
Speaker 1: we take this evil, heartless monster and we attach our
Speaker 1: human emotion to it, and then we make cartoons like
Speaker 1: how fucked up is that? How funked up? And and yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, you know it's like in the same
Speaker 1: same same breath. Then you watch this great animal out there,
Speaker 1: it's about appreciating this and and and you know they're
Speaker 1: the most amazing creatures to watch. But like you say,
Speaker 1: as as humans, we like to we're applying our logic
Speaker 1: to the situation. It's like, it's still a beautiful animal.
Speaker 1: It just is an animal. It is nothing more than
Speaker 1: an animal with animal instincts. And I'm sorry to say
Speaker 1: this and this and this could happen to meat any
Speaker 1: at any time. Um, But I think Timothy Treadwell found
Speaker 1: that out. Yeah. And these were his his his people people.
Speaker 1: You know, these were his compassion. He loved those bears.
Speaker 1: But they don't care. They do not care. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I think that's goes all the way back to like
Speaker 1: how you how your minded. Just once you see something
Speaker 1: like that, you see something that can be so beautiful
Speaker 1: at one moment, but then has no filter to resist
Speaker 1: the urge to do horrible, to do what it's horrible
Speaker 1: things for it to survive before at the flourish or
Speaker 1: for it, you know, in that case, bring us sound
Speaker 1: the heat and propagate it. It actually is mind blowing
Speaker 1: and scares me to death sometimes thinking about bear viewing
Speaker 1: trips with some of these people that are not hunters,
Speaker 1: and and they've seen a lot of bears, and I
Speaker 1: get it that they watch them all the time, but
Speaker 1: they take people so close to them to get photos.
Speaker 1: They're actually harassing the animals way more than US hunters
Speaker 1: or hunters. US hunters are stealthy. We do not want
Speaker 1: these bears knowing that we are here. We're glassing them
Speaker 1: from afar, and we are choosing a specific target to
Speaker 1: take out. Okay, the one specific. We don't need to
Speaker 1: go over and get pictures. I gotta tell my guys,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sorry. I don't want to. You know, there's
Speaker 1: no reason to get close to this for a picture. Okay,
Speaker 1: excuse me. Um. Sometimes we call bears in, you know,
Speaker 1: but I only call a bear that we are going
Speaker 1: to shoot because it is extremely dangerous. They come up
Speaker 1: and they is something triggers in them. It could just
Speaker 1: be picking dandelions, eating them or whatever they're doing, you know,
Speaker 1: having a great day, rolling around like a little puppy,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you trigger that predator since
Speaker 1: and they are coming and they are they are running
Speaker 1: or or they could be walking. It doesn't matter where.
Speaker 1: They're coming to eat you. Okay, you have made a
Speaker 1: sound that means you are struggling as an animal, like
Speaker 1: a predator's call or another bear call or whatever it is. Um,
Speaker 1: they're coming to kill you. And so they're not coming.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh cool, I want what that dying deers doing.
Speaker 1: And so they're coming to over and so I do
Speaker 1: not screw around with that. So I take it very seriously.
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I don't just call them to
Speaker 1: come over to get pictures. And so what I say
Speaker 1: it scares me is like with these bear viewing people,
Speaker 1: they just get right up in their grill while they're
Speaker 1: feeding and they're like, oh, it's fine, we can get
Speaker 1: up here and get these photos of them, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's like, have you ever seen a bear like
Speaker 1: flip that switch when they do? I mean, what are
Speaker 1: you gonna do? Are you trained to take care of this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've got your pepper spray or whatever, but man, it
Speaker 1: is so I I I like to think that I
Speaker 1: am more even though I harvest bears we shoot bears,
Speaker 1: I almost you know, and I can probably piss off
Speaker 1: some of my bear viewing people there and Kodiac, but
Speaker 1: I mean I almost feel that we respect him more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just watching him from Afar. I don't need to be
Speaker 1: a treat them like what they are. You're not. You're
Speaker 1: treating like what exactly that they are dangerous wild killing machines. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um yeah, they're beautiful, dangerous wild corrections spectacular. The thing is,
Speaker 1: I don't want to provoke and and this is and
Speaker 1: and understand what I say this to provoke an animal
Speaker 1: and then kill it and have to kill it because
Speaker 1: of what you did, because of you wanted to try
Speaker 1: to do you want the first desire to kill it
Speaker 1: and know why, like, hey, that's an old mature birth.
Speaker 1: That's a great one to take out. Now I call
Speaker 1: it now, I can pursue it because I know what
Speaker 1: it is. I understand it, and it's it's I've thought
Speaker 1: out reasoning. And it's not just some you know, the
Speaker 1: killing of lust where I see a bear and I
Speaker 1: want to run up a challenge and correct stab of
Speaker 1: a knife. But as as as unfortunately Mr Treadwell found
Speaker 1: he you know when that bear when those bears are
Speaker 1: sorry when that bear killed him and his growth and
Speaker 1: horrible thing, and I you know that. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: very very unfortunate. But that also cost I believe too,
Speaker 1: bears their lives, you know. And some people say, well,
Speaker 1: they deserved it, they killed someone. I realized that, But
Speaker 1: there bears, that's what they're bears, that's what they do.
Speaker 1: Do you deserve to get killed and you need a
Speaker 1: steak like you have to you have to live to
Speaker 1: and defend your family. And I'm sorry if I off
Speaker 1: anyone by saying it, but it's just it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where be very careful what you're doing when
Speaker 1: you're out there in the in the woods of and
Speaker 1: how you're treating your camps and whatnot, because the worst
Speaker 1: thing you could do is to just for your own good,
Speaker 1: to get a photo of some animal is to provoke
Speaker 1: it and then have to kill it, meaning like an
Speaker 1: unprovoked or you know that. Now it has to be
Speaker 1: we'll treat them as they are, as you say, treat
Speaker 1: them as they are. If you always treat him as
Speaker 1: a bear, then you'll be all right. If you you
Speaker 1: start treating him as a fuzzy thing to take pictures
Speaker 1: of and hang on your wall. Then you're not gonna
Speaker 1: be all right. You may be all right for your
Speaker 1: entire life or ten lifetimes, but that then it becomes
Speaker 1: up to the bear. Right, then it's up to the bear.
Speaker 1: And I think that goes for I don't know how
Speaker 1: many of those videos you've seen of those lions and
Speaker 1: whatnot in Africa that people decided to get out of
Speaker 1: the truck and and and get a little closer video
Speaker 1: of this cat that's lay in his tail, and I
Speaker 1: can't remember it was a lion. I think it was
Speaker 1: a line. There was like a video in India of
Speaker 1: a lady getting out of her car and the line
Speaker 1: just comes and takes her, just like a driving zoo
Speaker 1: or like a driving photo market. The line just comes
Speaker 1: takes her and she's gone. And she actually lived because
Speaker 1: I think her mother got out of the car to
Speaker 1: try to like chase after and grab her. Well, the
Speaker 1: lady that got initially grabbed lived. The lion comes back
Speaker 1: and kills a mother. And but that with that, if
Speaker 1: someone was there with the gun, would have killed that line,
Speaker 1: because if someone's human left, it would have just been
Speaker 1: killing what it was supposed to kill, which right at
Speaker 1: this point, luckily for us, is not humans. Right. Would
Speaker 1: you imagine like that switch right that that line goes through,
Speaker 1: that barrier goes through, and you've seen it. I've never
Speaker 1: seen this ship like that before, where it flicks the
Speaker 1: switch and becomes the nature takes over of the animal,
Speaker 1: the predatory. The predator takes over. We don't have like
Speaker 1: we have that switch. You and I both have it,
Speaker 1: but we just never It's so deep down we just
Speaker 1: never use it. I would never even think about having
Speaker 1: to use it. But the only time that like I
Speaker 1: could think of as like a human would be if
Speaker 1: you've got in a fight and and you get so
Speaker 1: route up your journal and that you were in you
Speaker 1: were you're in that mode of kill mode. You know
Speaker 1: you're in fight mode. Oh, and I've got a goal.
Speaker 1: I've also got a goal to find someone in the
Speaker 1: world that truly has lived the bulk of their life
Speaker 1: having to kill to survive. Mm hmm. Then I want
Speaker 1: to talk to that person for fucking ten hours and
Speaker 1: find out what's it like to have to kill to survive.
Speaker 1: And then because then we become a lot like that bear,
Speaker 1: Then that human becomes an animal just like that bear.
Speaker 1: And all the things, all the constructs of our society
Speaker 1: and our minds and the way that we view the
Speaker 1: world now through our brains goes away and deep down
Speaker 1: all the stuff that's buried in you comes out. And
Speaker 1: then how do you how do you then look at
Speaker 1: that animal if you have to kill it to survive.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a you know, plenty of African tribes
Speaker 1: still still having to do. But that's that's part of
Speaker 1: when you know, when you talk about that, I think
Speaker 1: about that a lot, like I want to talk to
Speaker 1: somebody because all right, we always talk about meat, and
Speaker 1: we talked about eating while meat is this like exalted
Speaker 1: thing that we you and I do, But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, won't have to do that, right,
Speaker 1: we have a choice. We make the choice to do
Speaker 1: it because it fulfills us, but we don't have to
Speaker 1: do it to survive. We're not hungry when we shoot
Speaker 1: a deer. M Yeah, I mean even you know, I
Speaker 1: I know several people in Alaska that lives subsistence, true
Speaker 1: subsistence lifestyle. You know, Yes, they have a cabin or
Speaker 1: a house or whatnot they've built that they live in um,
Speaker 1: but they need to harvest these blacktailed deer. You know, um,
Speaker 1: if there's family of four or five kids or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, you know they need to harvest you know,
Speaker 1: seven or eight deer or whatever it is to get
Speaker 1: through the their winters in I realize all those amazing
Speaker 1: Alaska shows they have out there nowadays, of like, oh man,
Speaker 1: we've got to get this beautiful, beautiful appollarh No, but
Speaker 1: even those folks have a choice, right because they could
Speaker 1: get in their car, they could go intown airport, fly
Speaker 1: to town and choose to live there. Yeah, I'm talking
Speaker 1: about some motherfucker that doesn't have a choice. I don't
Speaker 1: know that just literally does not have a choice in
Speaker 1: their mind. They cannot think of a time or they
Speaker 1: could do what you and I do. I think the
Speaker 1: closest that you and I have probably experienced was with
Speaker 1: that was probably and I can't speak for you, but
Speaker 1: but to to look and to those people's eyes and
Speaker 1: to watch the Nepali people, oh yeah, all day long.
Speaker 1: I mean, and you almost feel foolish, You feel like
Speaker 1: an idiot, You feel like I shouldn't say almost, do
Speaker 1: you feel like an idiot? That's that the tangible there's
Speaker 1: tangible ways like you in the film that we put
Speaker 1: out for Yetti, you described it as like, oh, there
Speaker 1: were I'm wearing Italian hiking boots and they're wearing flip
Speaker 1: flops with duct tape. That's a tangible way to look
Speaker 1: at it, Like, that's a pretty good metaphor for the
Speaker 1: way they live their life and the way we live ours.
Speaker 1: But when you talk to these people, or at least
Speaker 1: try to gather some of their intelligence and the knowledge
Speaker 1: that they have, you realize you are a soft dummy,
Speaker 1: like you're The way that we've constructed our society is
Speaker 1: to strip away all the good things that these people
Speaker 1: innately just have and don't know that they have, for example,
Speaker 1: never having seen a chainsaw, you know, for example, looking
Speaker 1: at a tree and being like, well, I need that
Speaker 1: thing to fall over, and I need to cut it
Speaker 1: up so where can be warm. And all I have
Speaker 1: is this rusty, old fucking axe. It's gonna take me
Speaker 1: six months to cut that tree down. But that is
Speaker 1: the way my life. That's the only option that I have.
Speaker 1: You remember the guys in the village where we first
Speaker 1: camped that first night, Um, I remember when I got
Speaker 1: really sick that morning, Um, I ate something bad or
Speaker 1: did something and I had explosive vomiting. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't remember the last time I've ever puked, and it was,
Speaker 1: I mean unbelievable how badly I puked. And but I
Speaker 1: remember sitting in my tent because we didn't go anywhere
Speaker 1: that day because they sent the porters ahead to go
Speaker 1: check the pass out to see how we were shooting rifles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was so sick just in there and in
Speaker 1: my tent. But I remember hearing this guy chopping a
Speaker 1: tree and you know, like they fell a tree. It
Speaker 1: was it was it was a good sized tree, big
Speaker 1: old live oak, wasn't Yeah, And so I remember them chopping.
Speaker 1: I could just hear chop chop chopped, you know, across
Speaker 1: this valley, and you know it goes down. But then
Speaker 1: later on we went up to that house and they
Speaker 1: were they were they were cutting, they're cutting up all
Speaker 1: this board feet of lumber with hand saws and and
Speaker 1: trying to make like trim or bait or whatever it
Speaker 1: was for their home, like or these door frames or something.
Speaker 1: And and me, I come from a small building background,
Speaker 1: you know, and helping homebuilders out and doing finished work,
Speaker 1: and so it amazed me to go watch these guys.
Speaker 1: I got out of the the tent at that men.
Speaker 1: I just need to I want to go over and
Speaker 1: see what's going on over there. Like it amazed me.
Speaker 1: I've always thought, you know, back of my brand, man,
Speaker 1: it'd be really cool to go build a log cabin
Speaker 1: like the real way. And so I, you know, went
Speaker 1: over to go watch these guys work and it was unbelievable,
Speaker 1: very humbling. But for us to see that, and that's
Speaker 1: just their life, like that's what they do. We went
Speaker 1: out hunting with our twenty one porters in our uh
Speaker 1: Napoli pizza and our giant tents and stuff, went out
Speaker 1: hunting and came back and they were still shopping on
Speaker 1: that tree when we came back, remember uh, the same tree,
Speaker 1: Like three dudes just up there chopping away. It was
Speaker 1: a guy and his wife, and I think a kid.
Speaker 1: There's a kid there too, like a I mean eight
Speaker 1: or nine year old kid. And it's like, think about
Speaker 1: those people like we met them. They did not have
Speaker 1: the ability to think about an easier way to do that.
Speaker 1: They had never seen it. I mean, there were six
Speaker 1: days a walk from the nearest road in the middle
Speaker 1: of the you know, western himilayas like they didn't. They
Speaker 1: couldn't think. Well, you know I saw on TV a
Speaker 1: chained there's no dishes there, there's no like, no no
Speaker 1: dish TV. You know, I saw a home and garden
Speaker 1: about smartphones. People that were you can make your own change,
Speaker 1: They didn't. This was the only thing that they knew.
Speaker 1: And because it was the only thing that they knew,
Speaker 1: it was happy to them and I was. I was
Speaker 1: made a post on Instagram the other day about like
Speaker 1: when I was a kid hunting, Uh, we didn't know
Speaker 1: how to score a deer, so we didn't give a ship.
Speaker 1: And the point is, like we it was it was
Speaker 1: the time of my life that had almost zero perspective
Speaker 1: in regards to hunting. But I didn't need any perspective
Speaker 1: because I was happy shooting a deer, counting the points
Speaker 1: and hanging out with my dad. These people are the
Speaker 1: same way. They have zero perspective in our world, but
Speaker 1: they don't need perspective world. Right when I was first
Speaker 1: deer hunting, I also lived at Missouri, moved up to Lisa,
Speaker 1: Missouri for a while, and UM went to actually high
Speaker 1: school Lisa and North Um. But where I first went
Speaker 1: deer hunting with Grandpa Glenn, the guy who got me
Speaker 1: actually into hunting. I know, one of my family really hunted,
Speaker 1: but through some people at church. Uh, they introduced me
Speaker 1: to this guy, um Glenn and um. But regardless, he
Speaker 1: remember when he when he got us got or he
Speaker 1: took me down to his farm my first hunt. And
Speaker 1: I recall be or before the deer season, I said,
Speaker 1: you know, and I had seen on TV all these
Speaker 1: like whatever they do food plots, um, you know, put
Speaker 1: out stuff, you know, and I remember, Um Stephen and
Speaker 1: I were talking, which is Glenn's grandson, real grandson. We said, man,
Speaker 1: maybe we could get some of this or this and
Speaker 1: we could put out some of that stuff. And so
Speaker 1: we went to go tell that to Grandpa Glenn, and
Speaker 1: we we kind of like we're presenting what we wanted
Speaker 1: to do on his land. And he's like, boy, and
Speaker 1: god damn, horns are hard to eat. You're gonna learn
Speaker 1: that someday and just walk off and we're both just
Speaker 1: like what And the point is like we didn't care.
Speaker 1: We shot those we we we need we got meat.
Speaker 1: That's what he grew up in a very poor family
Speaker 1: and that's all they cared about was meat, and we'll
Speaker 1: talk about the reverse of the spectrum, right like we
Speaker 1: were talking about adventures ship we create this society makes
Speaker 1: us fucking soft, and then we go out to get
Speaker 1: adventure to sharpen up. And then on the opposite side,
Speaker 1: when society was a little rougher, there was men like
Speaker 1: you're like Grandpa Glenn, who did need to go out
Speaker 1: That Grandpa Glen, it sounds like a sharp dude, like
Speaker 1: he wasn't very dull. He wasn't going to McDonald's and
Speaker 1: picking up like and watching football Sunday. He was a
Speaker 1: sharp sounds like he was a sharp guy. And so
Speaker 1: generations passed. People were sharp and eately because they had
Speaker 1: to be to survive. Now we softened the funk out
Speaker 1: of that. Now you and I feel like entering is
Speaker 1: the way to like reverse osmosis. People hired me to
Speaker 1: make them feel pretty cool, like Grandpa, like people are
Speaker 1: to be like, well, give me what's it like to
Speaker 1: be self sufficient for seven days? Like this motherfucker's self
Speaker 1: sufficient everywhere? Like the pal was kind of like getting
Speaker 1: in a time machine and then being like, dude, this
Speaker 1: was not long ago. In the eight hundreds. People live
Speaker 1: like the folks that we met in Nepal. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: three humans ago. Three humans ago. This is what it was. Now,
Speaker 1: we're so connected to everything. We suck at this. Well.
Speaker 1: When I was okay, so reading some of the books
Speaker 1: about Nepal, they talked about, like reading Snow Leopard and whatnot. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, they talked about how they would go through
Speaker 1: the mountains and they would stop in these villages and
Speaker 1: they would they would try to collect porters and as
Speaker 1: they went, some of the porters would drop out and
Speaker 1: they would try to get new ones from other villages.
Speaker 1: Guess what, That's exactly what they were still doing when
Speaker 1: we went. Remember they hiked in from the road with
Speaker 1: their core group, Mom and those guys, and then they
Speaker 1: would stop at some villages and pick up porters, okay,
Speaker 1: and they would just come in. There was no email
Speaker 1: sent it sent ahead of times saying hey, have your
Speaker 1: guys ready tomorrow. Whoever wants to go, they'll get paid.
Speaker 1: This not that I know of at least, but like literally,
Speaker 1: they show up, who wants to go? You drop what
Speaker 1: you're doing. It could be the acts and and and
Speaker 1: then they would go. And from what I understood, and
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but um, you got like single
Speaker 1: load pay and then you got double load pay. Remember
Speaker 1: when we were hiking out, that poor guy sitting there.
Speaker 1: I mean, all these guys are like soaking what a
Speaker 1: twenty pounds or something, but like they he had just
Speaker 1: ginormous load. And I and we stopped along the way
Speaker 1: and we were almost up to the helly pad or whatever.
Speaker 1: But I said, hey, we need to help you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you want some help. And he was like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but his back was bad. And but one of the
Speaker 1: other guys said, no, he won't. He can't let you
Speaker 1: do that because if you take something from him, the
Speaker 1: others will see and then he won't collect his full
Speaker 1: pay because he he signed on for double loads and
Speaker 1: so then he would get paid more. And so but
Speaker 1: I mean, just just you know, for I guess what
Speaker 1: you say, folks that don't know what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: If we call and I went to Ne Paul a
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, you're in a couple of
Speaker 1: months ago for a blue sheep hunt in m l As.
Speaker 1: Then filmed it fre Jettie with Renan Osterk and ben
Speaker 1: ayres Camp before collected and so that you know this
Speaker 1: is the hunt we went on and I don't know
Speaker 1: that you and I like when we talk about this hunt.
Speaker 1: You know, hopefully we'll get old together and be able
Speaker 1: to talk about it many years from now, But like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that we'll sit around and like look
Speaker 1: at those blue sheet and be like, look how big
Speaker 1: the damn horns are on those sheep. We'll look remember
Speaker 1: that time, I remember my shot. We'll be talking about
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, right because I do. I truly
Speaker 1: did feel at the time. In fact, I may have
Speaker 1: wrote this somewhere that it was like I've always thought,
Speaker 1: like if I got the time machine, where would I
Speaker 1: like to go? Like what uh period in human history
Speaker 1: would I like to travel to? And you go over there,
Speaker 1: and it's like getting in a time machine if you
Speaker 1: really examine the humans that you meet, because they do
Speaker 1: not have the capacity to to want as we do.
Speaker 1: They don't have the capacity to be vain that we have.
Speaker 1: They don't have the capacity to um, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't have mirrors to look in. They just lived their
Speaker 1: lives day by day and they're they're happy. They work
Speaker 1: hard when they're working, and they celebrate harder when they're celebrating,
Speaker 1: and they have a culture of reverence for everything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When when um, that day, I think I went over
Speaker 1: into that house where they were cutting up the wood
Speaker 1: to use for the materials in their home. Um, we
Speaker 1: just walked in to this home, um and Sam shear
Speaker 1: and I did, and there was a lady there and
Speaker 1: then she had a young little daughter. And I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how old she was. She could have been twelve,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not really sure. Hard to tell, um,
Speaker 1: But she came over and looked at She had seen
Speaker 1: a camera before, right, but like she just looked at
Speaker 1: it and kind of pointed, and I just I took
Speaker 1: the camp and took a picture of her, and she
Speaker 1: smiled and then she was like she wanted to see it,
Speaker 1: and so she came over and I showed her the
Speaker 1: back and she was like you know and like just
Speaker 1: like then she started touching her hair and her face
Speaker 1: and she merely went outside and I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: that was kind of okay. And she came back in
Speaker 1: and she looked a little different and then she was like,
Speaker 1: um like pointing to her, and I said, oh, you
Speaker 1: want another picture? So I took another picture, and she
Speaker 1: wanted to see it again and she felt I think
Speaker 1: better about herself on the second picture, but like the
Speaker 1: normal girl that wasn't very good. But she wrote her
Speaker 1: whole life cold. But she but there was no mirrors
Speaker 1: in that house, and I just think she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel a little rough, like the way she looked herself.
Speaker 1: And we got she she had Marie Claire cosmetics. She
Speaker 1: was she was out of the back of her she
Speaker 1: was a Mary Kay sales. When she was trying to
Speaker 1: pick BMW, it was crazy how quickly she picked it up,
Speaker 1: picked up the way to be a human in our world.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that that kind of stuff. You know. I
Speaker 1: remember being over there and that this is the hamlet
Speaker 1: of dol Yarsa. You know how many thousands of people
Speaker 1: go to to you know, an hour and a half
Speaker 1: west or east of where we were too ever space
Speaker 1: camp thousands of people a year ago there Um and
Speaker 1: to what they told us, well, there was dozens of
Speaker 1: people maybe in a year's time, outsiders or Westerners or
Speaker 1: foreigners for lack of a better term, to visit that village.
Speaker 1: You know, that village was We took what a forty
Speaker 1: five minute an hour long helicopter ride, yeah, west of Katman.
Speaker 1: Do Um made one stop for fuel. I can't remember
Speaker 1: the town we stopped in for fuel. It said poker,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't poker. That wasn't poker. It might have
Speaker 1: been well not din't matter. But we're somewhere deep in
Speaker 1: the heart him lays uh and these people that it
Speaker 1: was astonishing. And then I remember thinking, like even reading
Speaker 1: Snow Leopard and not really picking up a lot of it,
Speaker 1: and and being really worried about not learning enough about
Speaker 1: the culture, like not coming back like a stupid American
Speaker 1: being like, oh, that was fun. But they're like, well,
Speaker 1: how is it over there? I'm like, well, it's dirty,
Speaker 1: but you can't really explain the culture because you know,
Speaker 1: Hinduism and Buddhism and those cast systems are complicated. Um.
Speaker 1: But then I got back, I feel like, you met
Speaker 1: those people, you learned about who they were. That's enough
Speaker 1: to get the perspective that you needed. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt great too there. They are very loving people.
Speaker 1: I've been some other places in the world where they
Speaker 1: that feeling is just not quite there and you don't
Speaker 1: get to quite do the things that we just went
Speaker 1: and did, like walking into people's homes and whatnot. I've
Speaker 1: been in some places where I did not feel that welcome.
Speaker 1: And these people, they are such a loving people. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't believe how welcoming they were born
Speaker 1: from how much hardship. Think about the civil war that
Speaker 1: went on there, maybe a decade before we arrived, the
Speaker 1: catastrophic earthquake that happened three years I believe before we arrived.
Speaker 1: Less um people in the and dula Arsa telling us
Speaker 1: stories about the the I believe it was the police
Speaker 1: force coming in. Yeah, yeah, I can't here if they
Speaker 1: thought they were rebels or something of that nature. That
Speaker 1: that area was kind of the belly of the rebellion,
Speaker 1: the communist rebellion against the against the government, the dictator
Speaker 1: and the royal family playing those cast systems and that Um,
Speaker 1: I think it's Sawa was the one lady's hut that
Speaker 1: we went and sapping around the fire, and I think
Speaker 1: she was explaining that they all the men that were
Speaker 1: in that room were thought to be rebels and then
Speaker 1: we'll probably screwing this all up. But yeah, but police
Speaker 1: force came in and just shot them all. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: they got into an argument and they said, you guys
Speaker 1: are a part of and basically they weren't. They were
Speaker 1: just sitting there and enjoying their evening and these people
Speaker 1: with guns come in and shoot them all and drag
Speaker 1: them out and throw them into the water ditch where
Speaker 1: we were. You know, we're all sitting right there and
Speaker 1: seeing everything. And it's kind of like, oh, that sounds
Speaker 1: like a story they would have done hundreds of years ago. No,
Speaker 1: that happened two thousand and two, whatever it would have happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then you know, Man Bahadur are a good main
Speaker 1: guide telling stories about during that same time period, being
Speaker 1: conscribed by Um. I believe it was by the rebels
Speaker 1: to be essentially be a poacher to feed the army.
Speaker 1: Um and all the things he had to go through.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean if you don't go, if you
Speaker 1: if you are incredulous enough to go through that experience
Speaker 1: and when somebody says how it wasn't, you'd be like
Speaker 1: killed a big sheep. Yeah, you are beyond repair. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and people always like, oh, you're gonna what
Speaker 1: do you do? You just mount it and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, yes, of course I mount this beautiful animal.
Speaker 1: But like when when I want to me, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: you can just do pictures or whatever. But to me,
Speaker 1: I like it when people come over to my home
Speaker 1: or wherever and I can show them, you know, this animal,
Speaker 1: this blue sheep. You know, a child could come over
Speaker 1: and see it and maybe put their hands on the
Speaker 1: hide and whatnot. But it's it's one of those things
Speaker 1: like to me, when I look at that and I
Speaker 1: don't care how big it is right on my amounts
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's just one of those things when you
Speaker 1: look at them and you but you remember. It's like
Speaker 1: a memory, you know. And that's what, like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter how big the horns are. Oh
Speaker 1: what did it measure? I don't, Oh, I have I've
Speaker 1: been asked by some people your sheet like, I have
Speaker 1: no idea. It was just a it was an old
Speaker 1: broke up ram that I have. Oh, I was so
Speaker 1: pumped to see that sheep. And I mean that was
Speaker 1: my dream, was to take an old ram that you
Speaker 1: know that probably won't live through the winter, you know,
Speaker 1: um or or very many more by any means, And
Speaker 1: so that was like amazing. I have no clue how
Speaker 1: those horns majored. We never did put a tape on him.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I don't even think we ever thought
Speaker 1: about that. I know people ask me that too, like
Speaker 1: how big a sheep? And I'm like, listen, I have
Speaker 1: no idea. I can tell you that I think gets
Speaker 1: sad that, um, what you said about taxingmy is sad
Speaker 1: to me because you know, you and I went to
Speaker 1: Kodiak killed two two big old blacktailed deer. You guided
Speaker 1: me and I shot him, and there's so much more
Speaker 1: to that story than just that, but I had him.
Speaker 1: You know, Chris Komack, our mutual body made a great
Speaker 1: double pedalst amount for me, like beautiful, pendous gift of
Speaker 1: you know, for those animals to be like that, to
Speaker 1: be presented that way. And I had my sister in
Speaker 1: law came in my house and she was like, looking
Speaker 1: at it, really weird. She's like, oh, yeah, this must
Speaker 1: be really big ones. How you must feel really nice
Speaker 1: to show off how big your animals are. You killed
Speaker 1: like immediately going into the CNN, you know, the CNN,
Speaker 1: MSNBC bullshit media description of what tax to me is
Speaker 1: and I just immediate was like, and I just said
Speaker 1: to her, it's sad that you presume that's why that's there.
Speaker 1: It's sad to me that you your presumption in seeing
Speaker 1: that animal mounted in that way is that I want
Speaker 1: you to see how big it is. I'm sad for you.
Speaker 1: I would would love for you to ask me like
Speaker 1: where did that animal live? Tell me about the natural
Speaker 1: history of Kodiak blacktail deer, and tell me the story
Speaker 1: of how it came to be there. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: okay as a non hunter or source ione to be
Speaker 1: curious um and asking questions. That's okay, you know, you
Speaker 1: can you can ask someone what why did you mount that?
Speaker 1: You know? But I think as as hunters, you know,
Speaker 1: and that kind of goes. You know, we could go
Speaker 1: off on all sorts of you know, rabbit trails on that.
Speaker 1: But be prepared as a person, be prepared to tell
Speaker 1: people and to educate people. Why do you do it?
Speaker 1: Don't be that redneck. Well that's two big ones to me,
Speaker 1: like especially like those deer and stuff like I mean
Speaker 1: that trip, what what an amazing memory and an amazing
Speaker 1: um uh respect to that animal to use that animal?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. And I told her, I said,
Speaker 1: I have long since eating those those deer and I
Speaker 1: and I U yeah, yeah, and I try and I
Speaker 1: traveled with those deer their hides and their heads and
Speaker 1: their flesh from Alaska back here, and then we ate
Speaker 1: them right here, like then there they are. That's not them,
Speaker 1: but that's you know, that's a fasimile of what they
Speaker 1: were like. And as much as I love European mounts
Speaker 1: and as much like we were talking about this, and
Speaker 1: like the head of a white tail deer and a
Speaker 1: black tail deer and a cus deer looks just about
Speaker 1: the same, and like you're not. If I held up
Speaker 1: accused deer skull and a black tailed deer scull, you could,
Speaker 1: if you're a hunter and you know the animals, you
Speaker 1: could probably say that pick them out. But what a
Speaker 1: difference to see a whitetail mount and a blacktail codiac
Speaker 1: blacktail mount. It's like different different colors and different colors.
Speaker 1: And just so I was and I'm thinking, I want
Speaker 1: to see this animal the way it was. It's important
Speaker 1: to me to see that. And so yeah, that part sucks.
Speaker 1: I hate when people do that, but I also know
Speaker 1: why they do, because hunters have we've had a very
Speaker 1: bad like you said, it's did a fucking real bad
Speaker 1: job of making taxidermy. About what we're talking about you know, right,
Speaker 1: and it's artwork. You know, if you talk to Chris, like,
Speaker 1: this is art that he is trying to bring back
Speaker 1: and recreate life here. It should be when someone walks in, wow,
Speaker 1: that is a beautiful animal. Wow. And they may not
Speaker 1: know what type of animal it is, but to walk
Speaker 1: in somewhere and see a life size whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it should it should not be
Speaker 1: a scary looking thing, you know. And so if it's
Speaker 1: good tax for me, it should be done beautifully. And
Speaker 1: it's great to be able to like take kids and
Speaker 1: and show them like, oh, this is ah, this is
Speaker 1: how big this is. This is how big that is.
Speaker 1: This is what this is? And why do they have that? Well,
Speaker 1: they have horns because of this reason, so to educate people. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, it is what it is. But um,
Speaker 1: people are gonna hate. And you know, and we've done
Speaker 1: a bad Like homes, right, tax to me, in homes
Speaker 1: is normally gathered into a one room, right, we call
Speaker 1: it a trophy room. And I think that's part. You know,
Speaker 1: those things are just part of the probably you gather
Speaker 1: them all together like a collection rather than presenting him
Speaker 1: in your home is like a tapestry of your life,
Speaker 1: you know, which is what I want to try to do.
Speaker 1: I just I'm building a new home right now, and
Speaker 1: I think about, like how do I present my hunting
Speaker 1: life in this home as opposed to just like how
Speaker 1: do I stack them all up in a in a
Speaker 1: barn or something so people can see all of it together.
Speaker 1: I like it because like you walk from my room
Speaker 1: and you see that, Yes, hunting is happening in my life,
Speaker 1: but it's not. These animals aren't there as a collection
Speaker 1: of all the things I've done. It's it's my experiences,
Speaker 1: you know, personified and weird in a weird sense. So
Speaker 1: I I wonder and I you know, stuff that Chris
Speaker 1: connect does, like that ship will last forever, like those
Speaker 1: deer will last as long as I'm alive, and probably
Speaker 1: to my children, yeah, they're they're just you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's a great memory. Like I said, that's the way
Speaker 1: I look at it. I love. I love looking at
Speaker 1: something like that and looking at the beauty of it
Speaker 1: and just remembering that animal you know, and and knew
Speaker 1: that and and and know that we did the most
Speaker 1: respectful thing that we could after taking its life. Well,
Speaker 1: and then then those two deer's case. We we hunted
Speaker 1: those deer, you know, not a very it wasn't very spectacular,
Speaker 1: just like we could tell the story to hunt it.
Speaker 1: It was mostly just like Nepul would be the story
Speaker 1: of how cold it was and how windy it was. Um,
Speaker 1: that story the story of hunting him. Um, it was
Speaker 1: very much like you knew where the big deer hung out,
Speaker 1: or at least where somebody hung out. We went up,
Speaker 1: we found him, got lucky enough to get them both
Speaker 1: and a pretty um for that country, pretty easy scenarios
Speaker 1: with with a rifle. But then after that we ate
Speaker 1: him in camp for our survival and a sixty mile
Speaker 1: in our eight mile on our wind guests in December
Speaker 1: and Kodiak. We packed them into a raft, rafted down
Speaker 1: the river. That river froze. Then we pulled their fucking
Speaker 1: frozen heavy flesh heads out of the out of our rafts,
Speaker 1: build our camp back up, and then the next day
Speaker 1: hiked the frozen meat and heads six six deer, six
Speaker 1: full deer. Four or five of us hiked these things out.
Speaker 1: Was at a couple of miles we went I think
Speaker 1: it was four miles, four miles. I keep saying to
Speaker 1: I'll take four all four miles to our pickup point.
Speaker 1: Like that's my experience with that meat. And then it
Speaker 1: went into I went to a plane that went in
Speaker 1: the head too. Then it went to a plane, then
Speaker 1: it went to Kodiak, then it went in a cooler
Speaker 1: than it went with me to my home and went
Speaker 1: in my freezer. It's feeding your family, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's the whole experience. Yeah, it's like Ben doesn't center
Speaker 1: and go man every like whenever we've told these stories,
Speaker 1: it's not like you're not telling people. You see how
Speaker 1: big these bucks whatever they were, giants bucks. But it
Speaker 1: was our adventure. What it was, uh you know, like
Speaker 1: we talked to you know, it was an unbelievable adventure
Speaker 1: and it it truly uh well, when you have those hardships,
Speaker 1: like going back to what we talked about earlier on,
Speaker 1: when you have those hardships, that makes you appreciate things
Speaker 1: and and and once you once we find because it
Speaker 1: end up taking as we did three trips to get
Speaker 1: you know, um, all this dear meat that we had
Speaker 1: corded up in our packs and and in our personal
Speaker 1: camp gear and everything you know out um to get
Speaker 1: picked up Um by plane, and so I mean all
Speaker 1: this hardship, Um, it all comes down. You know when
Speaker 1: every morsel that meat, when you're eating it, I mean,
Speaker 1: your your family is appreciative. But it's like as us
Speaker 1: as the hunter who pulled the trigger or hiked it out.
Speaker 1: I don't care. You don't have to pull the trigger.
Speaker 1: But when you help someone a part of that hunt
Speaker 1: and you're sitting there cutting your meat and and put
Speaker 1: it in your mouth, it's just like, wow, I remember this,
Speaker 1: I remember what we did. It's like putting life back
Speaker 1: in your fucking body. Yeah, it's it's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: I told my wife all the time. We got in
Speaker 1: a little bit of a spat recently. And I've said
Speaker 1: this little podcast before, but like I've I've I've continually
Speaker 1: just said, like, hey, look, if you overcook a piece
Speaker 1: of meat, who am I I'm terrible I cook. I'm
Speaker 1: no uh no fancy cook. But like, let's have an
Speaker 1: idea of let's have an idea of like why I
Speaker 1: might get upset if the the last piece of Kodiak
Speaker 1: blacktail backstrap gets overcooked and left on the counter. Just
Speaker 1: if I'm upset, I'm not upset you for your cooking skills.
Speaker 1: I'm upset for the opportunity to consume more of that
Speaker 1: and will enjoy that in a way that I want to.
Speaker 1: So her and I keep coming back and forth. She
Speaker 1: keeps bringing it back to you're a dick. You keep
Speaker 1: making fun of my cooking. I'm like, no, no, I don't.
Speaker 1: It's not about that for me. I don't I appreciate
Speaker 1: that you cooked it. I just want you to understand that, like,
Speaker 1: it's important to me that we really, I have reverence
Speaker 1: for this piece of meat, that we don't just stew
Speaker 1: it up or we don't just like we think about it.
Speaker 1: We and and we celebrate it and and we don't
Speaker 1: just you know, throw it in a taco and you know,
Speaker 1: And so her and I maybe will never get on
Speaker 1: we probably will never get on the right wavelength with that,
Speaker 1: but we continue to go back to it because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to not be upset if if um,
Speaker 1: the last tender loin is is cooked a hundred eighty degrees,
Speaker 1: not that she does that all the time. Sorry, you're
Speaker 1: wonderful here. I made some burn ins. Yeah, it says
Speaker 1: tender loin on the package, and so we yeah, we
Speaker 1: are always always going back and forth about that because
Speaker 1: I'm like, you gotta reverse herit and then get in
Speaker 1: the trigger. She's like, I'll just throw in the oven.
Speaker 1: It's fine. It tastes delicious, so it's always but yeah,
Speaker 1: that just goes back to me. I'm like, I can't
Speaker 1: go back and get this right. One of the things
Speaker 1: that I've always wanted to do um in my dining room,
Speaker 1: I always show to be cool. I just bought a
Speaker 1: house and I you know, started trying to put stuff together.
Speaker 1: But I always saw this little thought in my brain
Speaker 1: because I do appreciate so much of where my meat
Speaker 1: comes from. I want to have like a little TV
Speaker 1: screen or one of those like photo album things right
Speaker 1: there at the end table, like when you have like
Speaker 1: a group of people and have like photos of the
Speaker 1: hunt and of the animal going in the background, and
Speaker 1: maybe some people that like freaks out, but I'm talking
Speaker 1: to me personally, I feel like, what a way to
Speaker 1: remember how I got this or how my hunter got
Speaker 1: this animal and to just remember it's like in remembrance,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like when you're in church
Speaker 1: and you and you go take the communion and you know,
Speaker 1: and you're praying and you're you're remembering, you know, And
Speaker 1: so for me, I always thought, man, that'd be really
Speaker 1: cool to have like just a little screen there, and
Speaker 1: maybe some people wouldn't even know what it was, because
Speaker 1: you don't want some people like because you know how
Speaker 1: that would go with some some people that aren't like, Okay,
Speaker 1: slide slide, sit down. I know you're hungry. You sit
Speaker 1: there and you watch every slide about this animal that
Speaker 1: I've killed. That's right. But no, for me though, I
Speaker 1: just think like it's just me by myself. I just
Speaker 1: think like it's like to pull the photo of that
Speaker 1: animal or a couple of pictures of the trip to me,
Speaker 1: that like makes me, I don't know, makes it more
Speaker 1: happy and makes me think about the respect part of it.
Speaker 1: You know, that would be for everyone. Your wife may
Speaker 1: not like that. What's that? That's what's in your mouth? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's the gut pile. I mean there's been that's been.
Speaker 1: He pooed his pants before that. That was a picture.
Speaker 1: We're into, Paul, how many times total did you and
Speaker 1: I have too our pants? And like, let's get into
Speaker 1: let's I'm happy to get into what like what shooting
Speaker 1: your pants really like the definition of it, because we
Speaker 1: have the thing we called the shart right and which
Speaker 1: is just I mean, there's hundreds of those, you know.
Speaker 1: The problem. Yeah, sometimes I guess from what I've heard
Speaker 1: when um, when you go to places like that, Um,
Speaker 1: it's the types of food you eat, and maybe the
Speaker 1: richness of it. Um. Chris Kamack, the tax dermist is
Speaker 1: out there. It's looking in Chris. We're telling a really
Speaker 1: important story here. So anyways, Um, apparently the diet that
Speaker 1: you're fed sometimes and I think even Ranan and those
Speaker 1: guys said, yeah, typically when you come over here wants
Speaker 1: a trip, you know, you'll get you know, some stomach
Speaker 1: issue and everything's dirty. Uh, every like the water and
Speaker 1: you can't drink the water. The fruit is hard to
Speaker 1: eat because it's washed in the water. Uh yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's not like they I mean, the outfitter does
Speaker 1: a great job and good food and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's not it's not really the point. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's just everything is done a little differently. And apparently
Speaker 1: it's fairly common to um get sick. And so it
Speaker 1: hit me first and I was explosive vomiting, you know,
Speaker 1: and so um it then, But it kind of passed
Speaker 1: through me fairly quick that one day, and then after
Speaker 1: that I was pretty good when I was doing the
Speaker 1: acclamation hikes and right, I'll be off. That's right. It's
Speaker 1: so when when I um, I remember just sitting in
Speaker 1: my tent and like the one time I would get out,
Speaker 1: I have to go to bathroom, And I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd be sitting there, think it's just a little gas
Speaker 1: and and you know how that goes, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, whoa, and you have to bail out of
Speaker 1: your tent because it's getting ready to get really messy
Speaker 1: inside you're sleeping back there were those those darn what
Speaker 1: do they call it the Tibetan sports or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but regardless, so that that went through me fairly quick.
Speaker 1: But it seemed like the next day, like the days
Speaker 1: after that's when it hit everyone, and I believe or
Speaker 1: noton was starting to feel like some stomach pains and
Speaker 1: this and that and the other. Um. But yeah, there
Speaker 1: was probably I think three out of four of us
Speaker 1: definitely had some scrub about our underpants, had some things happen. Well,
Speaker 1: this is an open forum, just discuss it freely. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do feel like you have to sugarcoat what right?
Speaker 1: I recall and and I mean Ranan's I don't think
Speaker 1: he'll get too upset, but I recall. But what was
Speaker 1: it that you know? We were asking, you know, each more,
Speaker 1: like hey, man, how you feeling You're doing okay? And
Speaker 1: and I remember I was either out of the tent
Speaker 1: or I could hear him in the tent, and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: right on, how are you feeling this one? Uh? Um no,
Speaker 1: I'm feeling better. But last night was a little rough
Speaker 1: and I was and it's like, okay, what happens Like, um, well,
Speaker 1: I had to use the bathroom and I didn't make
Speaker 1: it out of my sleeping bags. I mean, you know.
Speaker 1: And and Derek, you just yeah, when it when it's
Speaker 1: getting ready to hit you, you don't. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: I here's my story, the story of my that's I
Speaker 1: feel a good way to the end the podcast. We're
Speaker 1: not gonna end on poop. Okay, yes we are, because
Speaker 1: that's our relationship. We've we've had more hard times with
Speaker 1: our underpants than uh. I was in the height of
Speaker 1: well it was right. It was as you were the
Speaker 1: morning before you went out and shot your sheep. When
Speaker 1: we got really into the area where we knew we
Speaker 1: could hunt. I've been puking all day. I couldn't really
Speaker 1: get out of my tent. Anytime I move I did,
Speaker 1: just my body would just like quiver with pain, stomach, head,
Speaker 1: just my whole existence was being attacked. And um, I
Speaker 1: would just be at some point during the night, I
Speaker 1: was puking in my vestibule and I distinctly remember you
Speaker 1: wake it up and gone, then are you okay. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm okay, just letting it rip in the vestibule and
Speaker 1: and and it was better. That was a rough time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and what was it the day before this all happened?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this kind of stuff hits you, like,
Speaker 1: especially like out too, sickness or whatnot. I mean, when
Speaker 1: you were hiking on the trail, it was fine. And
Speaker 1: then what was it when you stood up all of
Speaker 1: a sudden it I was in the snow all of
Speaker 1: a sudden. Was when those when are our donkeys or
Speaker 1: our mules got stuck in that past And we had
Speaker 1: just summoned the the very first summon out of camp.
Speaker 1: And yeah, we were going through a pass and it
Speaker 1: was like the north to have a mountain where there
Speaker 1: was really deep snow, and the donkeys were loaded with
Speaker 1: all this gear with the porters and it was too
Speaker 1: deep as snow. They were post holing, and so they
Speaker 1: had to offload all the stuff, and the porters were
Speaker 1: running a load of gear up and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: come back and grab the rest of it. And so
Speaker 1: we were just taking our time along over stopped while
Speaker 1: we were, and they were filming some of it and
Speaker 1: trying to get figure out what we're gonna do. And
Speaker 1: as we were stopped and nobody saw this, but I
Speaker 1: was like standing up and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I wasn't standing up anymore, Like I was just sitting
Speaker 1: in the snow or laying in the snow or whatever. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. And then from then on it was just
Speaker 1: my head was gone, like my there, you know, my
Speaker 1: brain was just not functioning. We're seeing things. I saw
Speaker 1: that wolf and a little baby, and then you know,
Speaker 1: not only the scarier than that kind of stuff was
Speaker 1: that like walking but not gonna understand like if your
Speaker 1: arms removing or if your legs were moving, or if
Speaker 1: they were doing the right things, Like your brain is
Speaker 1: not talking to your extremities anymore because it doesn't have
Speaker 1: enough oxygen to really do his job. And that was scary.
Speaker 1: And then I got over that, thank god, because you
Speaker 1: guys were discussing my exit from that. We were going
Speaker 1: to use our emergency exit Plan Global Rescue to get
Speaker 1: Ben out because we thought there is because when you
Speaker 1: when I saw you find because we're on and I
Speaker 1: got to camp and I kept looking back with knocktors
Speaker 1: down the valleys, like where is Ben? You and Ben
Speaker 1: been airs? Where are you guys? And finally when I
Speaker 1: saw you guys pop out of those trees like a
Speaker 1: mile down or however far he was holding he's holding
Speaker 1: your hand or holding your arms, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's not good. And you guys were going one step
Speaker 1: at a time, and when when you finally got you there,
Speaker 1: I you know, we kind of just I just thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's only gonna get worse, like for you, like we
Speaker 1: have to go higher and further, like I just don't
Speaker 1: know this is gonna work. And yeah, we we were
Speaker 1: discussing how we're gonna you know, there was you know,
Speaker 1: because I think you you went through some this for
Speaker 1: a couple of days or how many days. Was that
Speaker 1: for that, I mean, that was just that one experience.
Speaker 1: But then I slept. So what I think happened, and
Speaker 1: what Ben was talking about was like I had I
Speaker 1: didn't get the flu. What I was getting the flu
Speaker 1: like I was getting the old cabman dow flu. At
Speaker 1: the same time, we hit that high altitude and I
Speaker 1: was so dehydrated, like my body was kind of battling
Speaker 1: everything that it just kind of attacked me all at once.
Speaker 1: I remember sitting down in the in the main tent
Speaker 1: with you guys and being so fucking cold. But it
Speaker 1: wasn't really that cold right day, but I was so
Speaker 1: fucking cold that I just felt like my whole body
Speaker 1: was breaking down. I was cold, I didn't really kind
Speaker 1: of didn't really know what was going on, and they
Speaker 1: put me in that big north Face poppy. Remember, I
Speaker 1: just sat against that chair and they have filmed interviews
Speaker 1: like what's going on, Ben, I'm like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: this amount was trying to kill me. Yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: let's just go lay you down. You're like, no, leave
Speaker 1: me here, don't move me, don't touch me. And I
Speaker 1: went out and pee. I remember standing up to walk
Speaker 1: out and go pee, which I did, and realizing I
Speaker 1: could walk, and I was like, now I can make
Speaker 1: it to my tent. I went over to the tent,
Speaker 1: I laid down and slept for twelve hours or something,
Speaker 1: and then and they had give me diamox and giving
Speaker 1: me a bunch of anti nausea, you know, pump me
Speaker 1: full of stuff and full of fluid. Slept for twelve hours,
Speaker 1: and I think the diamox did its job, and I
Speaker 1: felt better when I woke up, better enough to eat
Speaker 1: breakfast with everybody. And then it was given the order
Speaker 1: to like, go hike up there and see if you
Speaker 1: can right. Well, at that point, because I think I
Speaker 1: had taken my ram um the day before and the
Speaker 1: goal was to get you the ram closest to camp.
Speaker 1: Well that was no, you hadn't taken your ram yet.
Speaker 1: When when that was happening, we we didn't even go
Speaker 1: to the next camp. Yeah, that was right, we had
Speaker 1: to go to the next That was the camp that
Speaker 1: was the kid were hiking to the cam we're hiking
Speaker 1: to when I had altude sickness wherever it was, that
Speaker 1: was yeah, that was the first camp. That was our
Speaker 1: first camp. And then the next morning they said hey
Speaker 1: go we all degree. We remember we did some interviews
Speaker 1: for the We did interviews for the film, and then
Speaker 1: I went off with Raju, one of our main guys.
Speaker 1: You went ahead and they said, go ahead, and if
Speaker 1: you have any troubles, that's right. We're pulling the plug
Speaker 1: on this bitch. That's right. And as we get going,
Speaker 1: I'm started feeling pretty good. Where you and I were laughing,
Speaker 1: but he's like, oh, you're better now, thank thank goodness.
Speaker 1: And we get going. We get up mon is way
Speaker 1: ahead of us. Our main guy, Mon is way ahead
Speaker 1: of us, scouting for sheep. Well, we finally we get
Speaker 1: up to where man is. He sees his sheep. He's
Speaker 1: trying to show me whe where it is. And as
Speaker 1: I'm looking up the valleys trying to find these sheep
Speaker 1: in the alpine, my stomach explodes, like I got what
Speaker 1: you had two days prior now, you know, post my
Speaker 1: altitude sickness or mountain sickness or whatever where I had going.
Speaker 1: Now I've got the secondary attack of immediately just doubled
Speaker 1: over in pain. And then I know you guys they
Speaker 1: READIO back and said, hey, we got some sheep. You
Speaker 1: guys all come forward out of camp. And by the
Speaker 1: time you get there, I'm already kind of laid up
Speaker 1: against the bank. Um. And it's a pretty bad way.
Speaker 1: But now it's not out to do sickness. Now it's
Speaker 1: you know, my stomach is turning a knot. And so
Speaker 1: we glass of sheep up. Mon gives us like, we're
Speaker 1: hunting now, We're not just walking. We're hunting now. Gives
Speaker 1: us the speech listen to Mon follow them on, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I remember him talking. I'm just like, dude,
Speaker 1: this is the most miserable what is this? And remember
Speaker 1: we hi. Then we hiked forward to the next camp, right,
Speaker 1: and you guys are then again ahead of me. By
Speaker 1: the time I got there, I collapsed in the snow
Speaker 1: by the time I got there, and they put a
Speaker 1: tent up and I just crawled in that thing. And
Speaker 1: it was that night when I was puking out of
Speaker 1: the vest of you um. And then that evening, in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, I get up, I've got
Speaker 1: to take a ship. I get ben airs or medic
Speaker 1: comes over to help me. I'm struggling. I'm like a
Speaker 1: week I haven't eaten anything for a while. And he
Speaker 1: gets me up and I pulled my pants down and
Speaker 1: it's just like it's I can't stand up. And I
Speaker 1: fell over in the snow and I laid in the
Speaker 1: snow my pants down and I let it fly. I'm
Speaker 1: not laughing at you, I'm laughing with laughing. And in
Speaker 1: the night there was their nepoly porters came with their
Speaker 1: flashlights as I laid in the snow, and they were like,
Speaker 1: are you okay? Okay? I'm like, look at me. Do
Speaker 1: I look okay? I'm not okay? I am dying here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: You are? Yeah, And that's what you know. And that's
Speaker 1: when they said that. That's when they said you need
Speaker 1: to go up and shoot these sheep. Ben will not
Speaker 1: be able to get it round. They said, Ben's not
Speaker 1: gonna get Yeah. That was like decided upon that I
Speaker 1: was not going to be hunting. And I went in
Speaker 1: my tent while you went hunting. The next day and
Speaker 1: just laid there all day long, twenty four hours, just
Speaker 1: laying in my tent. They would bring me all types
Speaker 1: of food and every smell of every food they brought,
Speaker 1: maybe puke again they brought. They're like, what we bring
Speaker 1: curry chicken, Oh, we bring curry pizza up we bring
Speaker 1: curry tea, we brought you apple. Then It's so a
Speaker 1: full day of that. But then that evening you guys returned,
Speaker 1: and I was feeling like, I think I ate some
Speaker 1: rice or something. And then you guys got back and
Speaker 1: I saw your faces, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Coal is one of the toughest people I know. For
Speaker 1: non Ostarch is probably the toughest person I've ever met.
Speaker 1: And they you guys looked like you've been through a battle.
Speaker 1: It was blowing. I remember it was blowing up top there,
Speaker 1: and we were so wind burnt. My lips were so
Speaker 1: chapped and burnt up. The roof of my mouth was burnt.
Speaker 1: I mean that was that was a big had been
Speaker 1: through and from my perspective, having like almost already being
Speaker 1: too weak to do very much at all. I remember
Speaker 1: I got up at one point during that day when
Speaker 1: you were out, you know, doing the real hard stuff,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I think I could get to the
Speaker 1: creek down there. It was like a hundred yards away.
Speaker 1: I could make it to get back right well, And
Speaker 1: it was it was that what do we what do
Speaker 1: we say? Say? Listen? Um? I think I stayed back
Speaker 1: and I worked on the sheep that next day and
Speaker 1: they decided to take you for a little hike because
Speaker 1: they said, if you you gotta go try this otherwise.
Speaker 1: We remember they came there like you cut your sheep.
Speaker 1: And they came back and they said, can you go?
Speaker 1: Can you go hunting? I'm like, I can try, but
Speaker 1: I gotta light here more like I can't. I gotta
Speaker 1: eat something and try to like stand up. I haven't
Speaker 1: stood up, and you know, thirty hours, let me figure
Speaker 1: out how to get going here. And uh, then mom
Speaker 1: came back. I was like, there's a sheep close to camp.
Speaker 1: It's your only chance you will see you get up.
Speaker 1: You must get up your weekly and uh. He took
Speaker 1: me up there and we got up that freaking hill.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't. I said, look, I can't care anything,
Speaker 1: you know, I was, there's no ego and for me
Speaker 1: at that point, I was pretty weak and and and
Speaker 1: I just said, pack whatever you can in my pack
Speaker 1: and just get the rifle and let's go. And they yeah,
Speaker 1: we we we summited pry and know when we went
Speaker 1: up a thousand feet maybe feet, and it was pretty
Speaker 1: gradual and they were, you know, there there was like
Speaker 1: an old lady a crossing the road. They were always like,
Speaker 1: on to grab my elbow and then they helped me up.
Speaker 1: They were doing the best. Yeah they were. They understood
Speaker 1: I was in a bad way. Um, and mon let
Speaker 1: him on later said, you know, I didn't think there
Speaker 1: was no way. Yeah, and enter you like, no, he
Speaker 1: looked like pretty fit, I guess. But I like how
Speaker 1: they put that. And then they put in the video
Speaker 1: like it was talking about you. He's like he's yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah. And then we got up there. We get
Speaker 1: up to these sheep and they're like three or four
Speaker 1: d yards away and we realized that they had not
Speaker 1: packed my range finder and I subsequently and I felt
Speaker 1: pretty Um, I felt pretty desperate to kill a sheep
Speaker 1: and get back out of there. And I took a
Speaker 1: shot I shouldn't have took because I didn't. We they
Speaker 1: were like three hundred and I'm like meters or yards,
Speaker 1: I don't three hundreds. It turns out, I mean I
Speaker 1: shot where it's back. One shot, sheep run away. I
Speaker 1: just remember thinking, well, you know, what a miserable, like,
Speaker 1: what a failure this is has been so close, so close,
Speaker 1: but there's no this is I feel better, but not
Speaker 1: strong enough and then yeah, to trying to go get
Speaker 1: water out of my Yeti bottle, and they had poured
Speaker 1: boiling water into my Yeti bottle, which, as anyone knows
Speaker 1: his Yetti bottle, it doesn't get any cooler with time.
Speaker 1: And so I went to take a large drink of
Speaker 1: water and poured boarding the water down my throat and
Speaker 1: on my face. Lovely experience, and then just lost it.
Speaker 1: Just lost it. And I feel bad it even to
Speaker 1: this day for losing it like I did, just like
Speaker 1: you know, just at at at my wits end with
Speaker 1: like this this continual right right things. And after seeing
Speaker 1: you go up and shoot a sheep, I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I'm not that far away from this. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not it's not easy, but being healthy, I think I
Speaker 1: could do it, Like sure, I think I could do it.
Speaker 1: And then that night we all talked about it, and
Speaker 1: then we pretty much decided let's go. Like I got
Speaker 1: back to camp, I was feeling pretty shitty, but I
Speaker 1: got back all right. Well, I think that fire it
Speaker 1: was lit in you at that point in time, I
Speaker 1: could see that you were piste. Yeah, I was frustrated,
Speaker 1: and it was like it was good though, because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think he looks better. He got up there, he
Speaker 1: you know, and yeah, they basically said, I mean, you
Speaker 1: can put it your way. But I know how we
Speaker 1: had it to our like okay, mom's, Mom's like, this
Speaker 1: is our only goal. And they're way the hell up there.
Speaker 1: They're up and over those mountains, and it's kind of like,
Speaker 1: do you really think he can make that? And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's the only thing we can do. I mean, we
Speaker 1: just have to try and otherwise than he can right,
Speaker 1: otherwise I'll start going back. Yeah, And and in truth
Speaker 1: be told, you know, you never said I can't do what.
Speaker 1: You were always like, yeah, let's let's try it. And
Speaker 1: we're all like, well, good, I don't think you can
Speaker 1: actually do it. I never thought in my mind. In
Speaker 1: my mind, I thought because I remember eating my first
Speaker 1: granola bar and feeling like that was a wind and
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that's a winet is possible. But then
Speaker 1: it just kept me like I said, you get a
Speaker 1: little winds, like I got a little food in me,
Speaker 1: got a little more sleep because I couldn't sleep us
Speaker 1: so sick, I never slept, So now I have no
Speaker 1: sleep I have, you know, I haven't. I wrote in
Speaker 1: my journal and read it a lot. It's just like
Speaker 1: just kind of listing the misery points. But then yeah,
Speaker 1: then we decided to say we can. We kind of
Speaker 1: have to. He said, this is the last last sheep
Speaker 1: that we know they're in this valley that you know.
Speaker 1: I said, way, it's like, we gotta get up. I
Speaker 1: remember them saying, I gotta get up at five am.
Speaker 1: We gotta hike up over this past. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: kind of like showing us what we need to do,
Speaker 1: they pointed. And it's kind of like one of those
Speaker 1: things as a guy, you're like not sure if the
Speaker 1: person is gonna be able to do it right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where we gotta go almost like can intimidate you
Speaker 1: or see how you're gonna you know. But I don't
Speaker 1: remember any specifics around that, any conversation now, I don't
Speaker 1: remember anywhere out of it. Still, Yeah, I don't remember
Speaker 1: any Like, I just remember getting back to the tent
Speaker 1: after I missed this sheep and and burn my face
Speaker 1: boiling water and sitting there and ben Airs coming over.
Speaker 1: Ben Airs is this gentle, beautiful person like coming over
Speaker 1: and just saying, like, what's upset? You're upset. I'm like,
Speaker 1: can you tell you about I'm a little bit upset.
Speaker 1: I wish this was going another way, buddy, Like I
Speaker 1: wish this. I wish I was healthy and fit, and
Speaker 1: I think I could do this, Like if I'm healthy
Speaker 1: and fit, I think I can get it done. Like
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I often even now think back of
Speaker 1: what it would have been like if we were like
Speaker 1: I was healthy, for all of us, it would have
Speaker 1: been a whole different experience. Um, I'm glad it went
Speaker 1: the way I did, but sure, well, yeah, but it
Speaker 1: would be a whole different experience for you and for
Speaker 1: everybody else in the trip. Had I been yeah, but
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, yes. The next day it was.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful day. We go up the valley,
Speaker 1: that huge pass we had to go over, and I'm
Speaker 1: thinking with every step, I'm like, oh, boy, one ft
Speaker 1: in front the other. But I have been around so
Speaker 1: many guys that once they are um faced with adversity,
Speaker 1: how they can break down. And you never did that day.
Speaker 1: You just kept putting one foot in front of the
Speaker 1: other and you'd have to sit down. You were weak.
Speaker 1: We'd get your water, but you just sit down and
Speaker 1: we'd you know, and you would you get up? Yep,
Speaker 1: I'm good, and you just one foot in front of
Speaker 1: the other. I had a few breakdowns that day though.
Speaker 1: I remember taking my tracking poles and I remember Roj,
Speaker 1: you're saying in what little English she could say, like
Speaker 1: I remember, remember we we go up this snowy pass
Speaker 1: and like it's literally I don't know how many feet
Speaker 1: of snow. It was four four snow that was iced over,
Speaker 1: so you would be stepping on the ice and hoping
Speaker 1: that you didn't fall through, and you started to fall through.
Speaker 1: You know, anybody that's hiked in that kind of country
Speaker 1: knows what your post holing and every steps like going
Speaker 1: another mile, you know, when you're in that situation and
Speaker 1: we're at what sixteen thousand feet at this point, something
Speaker 1: like that, sixteen five. Yeah, now we're post holing for
Speaker 1: what seemed to be hours. I mean it was hours
Speaker 1: to get up and we summoned this. You know, it
Speaker 1: was a pretty gradual valley, but for that place, it
Speaker 1: was a very long, long, just arduous gradual. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a climb, like we didn't have to climb hands and knees,
Speaker 1: but it was a long slog and postal on through
Speaker 1: this ice. It's cold and um. We get to the
Speaker 1: summit of this uh of that ascent and we look
Speaker 1: at across this valley and I remember thinking I made
Speaker 1: it up here because they're like, the sheep are up there,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, let me get my gun out and
Speaker 1: get it loaded because you know, you know, the sheep
Speaker 1: are gonna be around here. And then finally they spot
Speaker 1: him when we look across, I'm like, this fucker is
Speaker 1: there's a mile and a half. Yeah, they made it
Speaker 1: sound like they were right there because he went around
Speaker 1: the bowl and they waved us over. Sheep, sheep, sheep,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, right here. I'm like those sheep.
Speaker 1: I range. I'm like, wait what down there? And I
Speaker 1: ranged and it was like seventeen yards away and I
Speaker 1: looked at like that's too far. We're all like that far,
Speaker 1: he's not gonna make it, and we were. That was
Speaker 1: That was the one time where I thought this is
Speaker 1: over because it was hot as funk. Then remember it
Speaker 1: was burning our skin, like you know, the roof of
Speaker 1: your mouth is burning. My lips were chapter glare off
Speaker 1: the snow, glare off the snows, and it was actually
Speaker 1: fairly warm that day after, like you say, it got warm,
Speaker 1: and for being in that type of climate, it feels
Speaker 1: when it does break and you get that sun and no,
Speaker 1: when there it feels hot. Oh yeah, because there's just
Speaker 1: there's no there's not as much atmosphere. The air is thinner,
Speaker 1: so that sun is that much more intense. And so
Speaker 1: we're sitting on that ridge glass and the sheep and
Speaker 1: that sun is hitting me and I'm I'm just like
Speaker 1: I can't remember. I remember thinking like this is some
Speaker 1: real adventurous stupidity. I'm gonna go after these sheep, but
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I'm gonna make it up out
Speaker 1: of here, because I'm thinking, well, we had to drop
Speaker 1: down almost two thousands. Yeah, so you gotta drop down
Speaker 1: feet after climbing three thousand and then go back up
Speaker 1: with the sheep and I gotta go back and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to camp down here, but we don't
Speaker 1: have any tents or anything with us, because it's like
Speaker 1: maybe you know, we left camp at six and maybe
Speaker 1: six hours later we summ it like that. That the
Speaker 1: thing I appreciated most about man, and I mean this
Speaker 1: from like a guide standpoint. There was no question in
Speaker 1: Mom's mind. Once he saw those once, like he kept
Speaker 1: pushing ahead to scout and look. Once he saw those sheep,
Speaker 1: there was no question at that point whether he was
Speaker 1: going to get you there or not. He knew it
Speaker 1: and he's like, we go down here and you don't
Speaker 1: like keephould we go here here here, and we'll go there,
Speaker 1: and like he was all about it. I was back
Speaker 1: there probably not on those guys are thinking what that
Speaker 1: is far Like I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: been if I was guiding that time. I was thinking,
Speaker 1: that is a large drop off in a quite a
Speaker 1: bit of chunk a type of ways over there. And
Speaker 1: so for him to be that falsy to make the
Speaker 1: call to do it, um, you obviously have to be
Speaker 1: there to see it. But um, he just you know,
Speaker 1: and you guys just grabbed. There was not much talk
Speaker 1: about it. He said, you guys stay here, I'll take
Speaker 1: Ben and Raju and we next thing, you know, Raju
Speaker 1: and I and Mom are sliding on our asses down
Speaker 1: an icy cliff, I mean sliding to the point where
Speaker 1: and they were again treating me like a grandma, like
Speaker 1: trying to hold my legs from so I wouldn't flip,
Speaker 1: but we slid a thousand feet down a cliff on
Speaker 1: our butts and now you're wet, and it's like and
Speaker 1: so then after that we got down to the bottom.
Speaker 1: It was a pretty easy traverse up to the point
Speaker 1: where this where. But then we had to go up
Speaker 1: a big ridge to get to where we could lay
Speaker 1: down in the glasses sheet. And once we got there,
Speaker 1: that's when I knew. We got three fifty yards away,
Speaker 1: That's what I knew. I was like, oh wow, I'm here.
Speaker 1: I came all the way here, and I'm gonna kill
Speaker 1: this animal, and I knew it at that point I knew.
Speaker 1: I was like it was almost like I started looking
Speaker 1: back up at you guys who had stayed up in
Speaker 1: the hill, like how are we gonna get this thing
Speaker 1: out of here before you shot it? And then I
Speaker 1: laid you know, mon and I discussed which sheep was which,
Speaker 1: and I laid there and we were waiting for the
Speaker 1: sheep he's laying down to turn, and I just remember
Speaker 1: like thinking, being the most calm I had been in
Speaker 1: quite some time, not nervous, no pressure to kill it.
Speaker 1: I knew. I was like I didn't come like I
Speaker 1: didn't come all this way, and there's no way this
Speaker 1: thing is not going to die right here. It's not happening.
Speaker 1: And it was, you know, it was. He turned in
Speaker 1: his bed a little bit, stood up, and then laid
Speaker 1: back down to the point where I could get a
Speaker 1: bullet in him, and one shot and he stood up,
Speaker 1: ran a circle and fell over. And I didn't cheer.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I just put my face down my pack
Speaker 1: and kind of like cool, soaked it up, soaked it
Speaker 1: up a little bit, and then even getting over to
Speaker 1: the sheep. Now we gotta go down this little icy
Speaker 1: actually this little icy ravine and up over to the
Speaker 1: bench where they were at, and there's another three feet
Speaker 1: and then we gotta go. But I remember the mountain
Speaker 1: to the How would have it would have been to
Speaker 1: the south of us whatever, Yeah, I would have been
Speaker 1: the south because the sun was on. It was the
Speaker 1: most beautiful range I had ever seen. And I sat
Speaker 1: there with the game scout and he tried to explain
Speaker 1: to me that he had a snow leopard trapline. Oh right, yep,
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, oh my god, that was the
Speaker 1: most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life, regardless
Speaker 1: of how I got there, and so those moments are special. Man, yep.
Speaker 1: I remember ran a seeing there just being blown away
Speaker 1: that like, wow, it's actually went down. This actually happened,
Speaker 1: Like I cannot believe it. Ben shot as sheep, and
Speaker 1: I mean, and I can honestly say that us three
Speaker 1: had um. I don't think there was any question or mind.
Speaker 1: The day or two before that, you weren't going you
Speaker 1: were going home probably on a helicopter, and this was
Speaker 1: not going to happen for you getting your sheep, and
Speaker 1: so for you to pull through on that, it was
Speaker 1: it was amazing because it was I love those success
Speaker 1: stories with my hunters, showing them what they can do,
Speaker 1: and so for you to pull through and you to
Speaker 1: do that is just amazing for us to see and
Speaker 1: you know, and no one you know, yeah sure people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately it wasn't shown on the on the video you
Speaker 1: guys did um, which I wish that was shown because
Speaker 1: the adversity and that was it was amazing that you
Speaker 1: you conquered that, you know, and so that was amazing
Speaker 1: in itself, and it was like on our way out,
Speaker 1: I just remember you were like a new man, you know,
Speaker 1: you were just I mean we were just hiking up
Speaker 1: and I just feel like, whoa Ben? I remember, like
Speaker 1: I remember when I finally was feeling good, right because
Speaker 1: you got sick and it was a day and then
Speaker 1: you like have a day to kind of day and
Speaker 1: a half. Well, my day and a half was, you know,
Speaker 1: well plus out to six. My day and a half
Speaker 1: was kind of in the ship, right, I had mine,
Speaker 1: and um, I finally felt good. I don't think it
Speaker 1: was because I killed a sheep. I just think it
Speaker 1: because I finally think the I think the exerted energy
Speaker 1: helped push things through your body quickly, or maybe and
Speaker 1: getting more hydrated, getting some food in you, all the above.
Speaker 1: What do you remember? Like, So we killed the sheep,
Speaker 1: we go, we do our pictures and all our stuff,
Speaker 1: and then we start hiking back to the summit where
Speaker 1: we saw the sheep from, and I remembered you. It
Speaker 1: was you and Ben Ranan would be good ways ahead
Speaker 1: of me the whole time, Like you guys would hike
Speaker 1: ahead of me and then stop and I eventually get there.
Speaker 1: You hike ahead of me and stop and I eventually
Speaker 1: get there. The moment when I felt the best was
Speaker 1: when we got to that summit and we were taking
Speaker 1: pictures and jacking around filming. I finally felt good, like
Speaker 1: I finally felt clear and good and healthy and happy
Speaker 1: and not even killing the sheep, not even getting like
Speaker 1: but getting up that because now I knew we were
Speaker 1: going down into camp and were going down into camp
Speaker 1: and I don't want to go up anymore for a while. Um.
Speaker 1: And then when we're going down through that valley where
Speaker 1: we had to post all up, we slid down on
Speaker 1: our butts and I remember sliding down with ben Airs
Speaker 1: like fucking cheering as we went. I think you went
Speaker 1: forward a little bit about us we were and Rogerie
Speaker 1: was sliding and every we're all sliding on the ice
Speaker 1: and cheering like a fucking roller coaster. And I was like, dude,
Speaker 1: that those experiences are. It was a spectacular day because
Speaker 1: I think everyone in camp, everyone was so excited for
Speaker 1: you that whoa, he did it, like he actually did it.
Speaker 1: And I guarantee you pushing through and doing that, that
Speaker 1: showed those guys that anything is possible out there, because
Speaker 1: there are people that show to those camps that cannot
Speaker 1: do it, they can't make it up the mountain, and
Speaker 1: so to have those people in camp that they help
Speaker 1: get through those times. That helps the next person to
Speaker 1: the other and it helps, you know, to tell these
Speaker 1: experiences and for them to put in their you know,
Speaker 1: their their memory bank, you know. But well, yeah that
Speaker 1: they you know, the hunt we went on before we had,
Speaker 1: you know, the Kodiak hunt. I came out of that thinking, like, man,
Speaker 1: I did pretty good and then really struggle. I put
Speaker 1: a hundred pounds of my pack and went four miles.
Speaker 1: We did it. Like I didn't get sick or falling
Speaker 1: the river. You know, I didn't grow up doing stuff
Speaker 1: that you've you've been doing for many more years than me.
Speaker 1: So for me, these things are monumental. They just are.
Speaker 1: And I'm not something fucking a don you know, average
Speaker 1: height to average build, don't really like these things for
Speaker 1: me are are just more monumental. I'm not afraid to
Speaker 1: say it. I give a ship. I have no ego
Speaker 1: about it. Like, these things for me are just a
Speaker 1: little bit the mountain a little bit taller than for
Speaker 1: other people. And and like I said, there's other people
Speaker 1: that can't do things that I can do the same.
Speaker 1: But I've always been quick to realize that these things
Speaker 1: are beyond the scope of what I ever thought I
Speaker 1: could could do. And so leaving that Kodiak on, I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: legit you put you had a bar like legit, and
Speaker 1: I hopped over it and I felt good to have
Speaker 1: done it. And then the Paul was like, I wasn't
Speaker 1: really sure what the bar was, but I knew it was.
Speaker 1: This is the hardest, but it's kind of a really
Speaker 1: screwed up moving bar and I shipped all over it.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, but that hunt's describes like the
Speaker 1: hardest mount hut in the world. It is hard, and
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot, you know, the one really
Speaker 1: you've been to Azuba, John had done those other things. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think you're right if you were healthy. You
Speaker 1: know that the the the obstacles in Nepal is mainly
Speaker 1: the altitude. Yeah, that's what the obstacle is. It's not
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a gradual client like you don't there
Speaker 1: some steep places, no doubt about it. But it's mainly
Speaker 1: the altitude. And but there you can be on Kodiak
Speaker 1: and turn it into the roughest, nastiest physical hunt, like
Speaker 1: chasing goats or deer something up a brushy hillside. In
Speaker 1: August or September and having to you know, beat your
Speaker 1: way through all that stuff. But I mean, there, I've
Speaker 1: been in so many places around the world where like
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I've said a new bar of ship here.
Speaker 1: This isn'tbelievable. Yeah, so you're you go through like days
Speaker 1: and days of no footing, no trails. We walked on
Speaker 1: most of our time hiking through Nepal was on old
Speaker 1: but not old. They're rarely fairly new hillside goat trail,
Speaker 1: goat and cheam trails, and so you know, we were
Speaker 1: hiking in high altitude. It was hard, and we hiked
Speaker 1: a long time for a lot for a for a
Speaker 1: few days. But it wasn't like what you do in Kodiak,
Speaker 1: where you've got to beat brush and slog through you know,
Speaker 1: bogs and stuff. We have a footing. So it was
Speaker 1: hard and just a hard and different way it was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it definitely set a new physical bar for
Speaker 1: me um on pushing because when I went up after
Speaker 1: my ram with with Mon, I kind of made the
Speaker 1: mistake of I'm going to stay with man and I
Speaker 1: am going to hike just as hard as these guys,
Speaker 1: not to you know, but just to like, I just
Speaker 1: felt like that's what I need to do. Well, You're
Speaker 1: in the hunt that way, and I'm wired that way,
Speaker 1: and and so that day pushed me extremely hard. I've
Speaker 1: never expanded my lung capacity to that size of like
Speaker 1: just breathing so hard, and and so that day I
Speaker 1: just remember like, wow, I cannot, you know. At the
Speaker 1: end of that day, I was so taxed and spent,
Speaker 1: But it was a different level because yes, I've gone
Speaker 1: through brushier and nastier type of things like on Kodiak
Speaker 1: or cheecats with sheep or whatever. But then I was like,
Speaker 1: I have never felt like that before. And I what
Speaker 1: I came away with on that huck because I've always
Speaker 1: thought about, you know, I'd like to go some of
Speaker 1: some of these big mountains sometime, you know. But I
Speaker 1: kind of came away with the feeling, you know, and
Speaker 1: what you know, waking up in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night not being able to breathe very well in camp
Speaker 1: that night. I think you and I both were really
Speaker 1: uneasy that night and we I remember getting out of
Speaker 1: my tent. I had to because I felt like I
Speaker 1: wasn't getting any air in my tent. But that uneasy feeling.
Speaker 1: It made me think to myself, I'm not so sure
Speaker 1: that I person really have a big desire to go
Speaker 1: climb on these really big mountains like I just you know,
Speaker 1: and I remember asking, right, honestly, does this ever get
Speaker 1: at me better? Like you guys are so used to this,
Speaker 1: And he's like, um, not, I mean it's no, it's
Speaker 1: really not that comfortable. And the guys that do it
Speaker 1: are just wired differently, and it's kind of like I
Speaker 1: guess like us. I mean, they just they pushed through
Speaker 1: it and they're mentally strong and and so for us
Speaker 1: to do these types of hunts no matter where it is,
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds mantola, but it's it's one of
Speaker 1: those things that I think it just it makes you
Speaker 1: appreciate things in life, getting back to what we talked
Speaker 1: about earlier on makes appreciate things in life, coming home
Speaker 1: to a nice, warm home, being there with your family,
Speaker 1: nice cooked meals, good gear, everything in a place like
Speaker 1: you and I were in that case, we were voluntailor
Speaker 1: really there no um. And this is why I think
Speaker 1: military members even think about us like you know, okay
Speaker 1: on a hunt, but like you paid for this, Um,
Speaker 1: I think you put yourself in the thing where you
Speaker 1: the environment is out to get you to a point
Speaker 1: where and you can't turn that off. It's relentless, like
Speaker 1: you can't turn it off. And then the in the
Speaker 1: normal world you can turn it off and you want,
Speaker 1: you can turn like if you're like, man, I'm really
Speaker 1: not feeling it today, I just like to after work,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go home and wash them team to stay
Speaker 1: at home. Turn it off. You can turn it off.
Speaker 1: You had sick days, turn it off out there. I
Speaker 1: had sick days, but I couldn't turn it off because
Speaker 1: I either like the chord and get the helicopter to
Speaker 1: come or walk the funk out like, so you can't
Speaker 1: turn that off. You can't take an easy day out there,
Speaker 1: like you just have to push through it because there
Speaker 1: is no other way to be. And that's how those
Speaker 1: guys are. And then the more they push, the more
Speaker 1: they can push, and the next thing they know, they're
Speaker 1: standing in the top everest. You know. I think that's
Speaker 1: how that they described it to me. It's like you
Speaker 1: keep pushing the next thing you know you're the highest thing,
Speaker 1: and you just don't think about it why you're pushing,
Speaker 1: because otherwise you'd be like this scary, never mind that
Speaker 1: nowhere and you just never mind the oxygen in my brain. Babies. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we did. This is where we at two hours and
Speaker 1: seventeen minutes. Cold Cramer not goodness. We sure rambled on.
Speaker 1: We really did. I hope it was interesting for the
Speaker 1: folks out in the podcast land. He probably was, well,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. I'm then I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: You and I have many more adventures to come, and
Speaker 1: you know, at some point in time we're gonna do
Speaker 1: an enjoyable trip. No, I'm trying to think of one
Speaker 1: for you. We've done like several non hunting trips that
Speaker 1: were relatively enjoyable. You know. I think what we're gonna
Speaker 1: do next time is we're gonna blindfold you and then
Speaker 1: we go and you'll just be like, where are we going?
Speaker 1: Cold Surprise Pakistan. You are at the bottom of the
Speaker 1: ocean and you have diarrhea. How did you make me? Uh? Yep,
Speaker 1: you know, I just you know, I don't know why
Speaker 1: Hannah doesn't like me. Well, I will say Hannah told
Speaker 1: me today that she scheduled the photography session that year.
Speaker 1: Us so Cole's Smart Start Start Man he knows how
Speaker 1: to play things. He um for. As a thank you
Speaker 1: for Hannah, my wife, allowing me to come on these
Speaker 1: great adventures, she bought us a photography package too, because
Speaker 1: he's noticed. You had noticed when we're on our trips,
Speaker 1: I do like to look at photos of my family,
Speaker 1: especially on Nepal, when I was like, I hope I
Speaker 1: get to see these folks again. Yeah, be nice. Oh here,
Speaker 1: I enjoy senior little man and and uh telling your
Speaker 1: stories and yeah, yeah, so hopefully, yeah, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: some photos thanks to your gift of our family that
Speaker 1: I can look at you next. You've always done for me. Well,
Speaker 1: next time I'm shipping my pants with you, that I
Speaker 1: can look at those photos like, well, we'll have new sponsors.
Speaker 1: It depends felt diapers. Oh god, no, man, I'd like
Speaker 1: to say. I always say, you know, I'm thirty two
Speaker 1: and you're fifty five. I look like I Thank god.
Speaker 1: My girlfriend thinks they look good with great hair otherwise.
Speaker 1: But you know, we got a long ways to go
Speaker 1: in this this industry, this world, hunting world. So I'm
Speaker 1: sure they'll be numerous more things that we do that
Speaker 1: we'll have required two our podcast to unpack them, many
Speaker 1: many more adventures to come. Thank you, buddy. All right,
Speaker 1: thank you sir. That's it. That is all. Thank you
Speaker 1: Mr Cole Kramer so much for being the guy that
Speaker 1: you are being a part of my life. Truly appreciative,
Speaker 1: and I am also appreciated everyone listening through these first
Speaker 1: eighteen episodes and coming up to me at events this
Speaker 1: week at Total Archie Challenge, I probably talked to you know,
Speaker 1: fifty or sixty people that have listened to the podcast,
Speaker 1: and each one of you that have come up and
Speaker 1: chatted with me have been respectful. I just wanted to
Speaker 1: to shake hands and talk about this thing we're doing
Speaker 1: called the Hunting Collective, and and that keeps me going,
Speaker 1: that makes me excited about the future, and it's a
Speaker 1: bright future for us here. News regarding that future coming
Speaker 1: up real soon. I won't teach you much more than that,
Speaker 1: And in the meantime, you can go to the Hunting
Speaker 1: Collective dot com check out articles, videos, other podcasts. The
Speaker 1: last couple were great. We had Adam jan Kee on,
Speaker 1: we had Casey Butler from Hushing, We had Ryan Callahana
Speaker 1: First Light, Fred Eichler, John Gaye of b h A
Speaker 1: just a bunch of great conversations with a bunch of
Speaker 1: great people. Please right in, let us know how you
Speaker 1: like it, let us know who else we can have
Speaker 1: on and how we can do it better. As always, many, many, many,
Speaker 1: thank you, and we'll see you next time. Bye.