WEBVTT - Ep. 18: Cole Kramer 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:05.840 Hey everybody, and welcome to The Hunting Collective, episode number eighteen. 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:09.760 I've been O'Brien today. I am joined by Col Kramer, 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:16.279 Kodiak Alaska bear guide, mountain hunter and venturing badass. Cole 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.440 is a great friend of mine, one of my favorite 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:22.480 people on the planet Earth, someone I've traveled the far 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:25.239 reaches of the world with, and I value him in 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:32.640 his opinion among almost all others. This conversation goes into taxidermy, trophies, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.880 value systems, guiding bears, such a great bunch of great 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.200 bear stories that you won't hear anywhere else, a guy 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.840 like Cole, and our story of our adventure in Paul 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.400 last year. So hopefully you enjoy all those things I 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.120 certainly did. It's longer than our normal podcast. It could 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.200 have been way longer than it actually is. I think 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.120 it's one of our best. It'll stand up for a 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.440 long time. This is episode number eighteen of The Hunting 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:21.800 collect Hey, Cole, Hey Ben, nobody doing good. Thanks for 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.039 having me on the podcast. Man, Oh well, it's my pleasure. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.200 I always like to start these conversations out, like for 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.000 you to describe more. And it was certainly we're in 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:35.000 interesting places for you to describe where we are, what 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:39.320 we're doing. Well, folks, for those of you at home 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.800 right now thinking about us, just put yourself in a 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.280 nice relaxing moment and just think that you're back on 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:52.080 a bus that you went to school and but yet 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:57.720 it's a much nicer bus that has nice couches does 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.960 and we're looking outside in the rain and fog at 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.920 the total archery challenge up here at is it Terry Peak? 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:12.000 It is Terry Peak in South Dakota. Terry Peak, South Dakota. Yeah, 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:15.360 it is raining. It's been raining all day, which is 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.400 not It turns out that doesn't work well for an 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.200 outdoor archery shoot. No, when you can barely make out 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.840 the targets, it's difficult. But I tell you what, there's 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:27.800 a lot of hardcore people here just hitting the course 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:30.119 up like nothing's going on. So just throwing on there, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.079 throwing on their rain gear doing it. Was it. We're 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.519 just drinking hot cocoa and a bus. We are drinking 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:40.240 hot coco and I do have my shoes off cooler 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.480 black sin. Yeah. Well, now we're in the not just 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:49.000 any bus, the public lands bus. That's right, Sam soholds 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.560 awesome bus Yeah, he's been kind enough to let me 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.239 use this as a studio for today. It's very nice. 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:00.480 It's um, how would you describe the interior. It's rustic 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.480 but also modern. Yeah, it's a modern rustic m Yeah, 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.760 it's really nice. He's done what did you say, It 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.519 took him about two months, two solid months of two months. Yeah, 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.040 painted the outside and fabbed up well, framed up a 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.480 hole four bunks back there, and the whole queen looked 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.480 like maybe even a queen size bed in the back. Yeah. 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.520 I think he actually rents out his slots here. I mean, 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.040 I mean it's pretty expensive, so if anybody, if anybody 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.160 wants to it's like an Airbnb on wheels. He'll drive 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:35.480 to you wherever you are. That's actually not a bad 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.000 idea for a business. No, no, it's not. Actually I 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.960 have to let him know. Yeah, maybe he'll come in 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.240 and join us. Um, he's outside selling T shirts right 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.560 now for his public Lands tease. So you've got a 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.480 lot of public land stuff going on, very trendy. He's 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.720 got a really cool uh what is that a Waltin 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.320 framed of Walt Waltin on the front of the bus 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.120 or on the side of the bus and that his 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:58.560 T shirts and whatnot in there, and a lot of 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.880 folks coming in. Already, river running river runs through it. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.280 With all the rain and hail we've had here, it's 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.800 quite interesting outside. Right at the moment, it was true 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.520 of mud. Listen, anybody listening that thinks that my mobile 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.040 airbnb idea is good, let me know, because I'd like 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.200 to get I'd like to go into business, like to 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.560 Colleck some royalties we like. You're like, hey man, I'm 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.200 staying in Devon for the weekend. Like, I'll drive to you. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.240 You can stay at my bus. Maybe Sam and I 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.719 can get in that. Anyhow, it's been a fun, fun weekend. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:37.240 We've shot many a foam target at various distances. I 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:42.360 feel like we're supporting the arrow companies after this trip. Yeah, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:47.320 we are. And I'm I showed up here with my 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:57.200 my favorite arrows. Ah. So listen, h you may you 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.040 know you listen to this podcast, you may think a 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.640 lot of sharp, sharp fellow. You know what a character sharp, thoughtful? 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:06.800 You know it really has it all together. He knows 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.719 this stuff. He's got a podcast. He's got a podcast. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:14.120 Not many people have podcasts. He must be special. But 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:19.520 I showed up. So I will say Archery Country in Austin, 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.120 Texas is one of my favorite places to be let alone, 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:29.800 purchase archery paraphernalia from. They're awesome people, and I get 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.680 my I went there, oh safe Sunday to get arrows. 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.360 They know what airrors I shoot, so I got their 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.240 air as they cut them for me inserts in, gave 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.960 them to me. I didn't think much about it, you know. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.920 And I got here, uh, and they're the colors orange. 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:53.320 Would you like him? They look great? Autumn orange is 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.520 the color. And I got here and a few people 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.640 either jokingly or seriously. I don't think I could pick 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:06.480 up the sarcasm. We're like, oh, aluminum arrows, full fulluminum arrows. Yeah, aluminums. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.560 That's crazy. You're shooting old school. I was like, I 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.279 thought about it, like did I get the wrong arrows? 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.320 Did they give me the wrong arrows? So I took 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.559 one of my autom orange arrows out of the quiver 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.400 and looked at it and I said, oh, ship says 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.120 aluminum orange. Keep in mind this has gone for several 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.560 hours now. Yeah, at this point, and I'm telling everybody 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.640 in our shooting group, I'm telling Sam and Cole, I 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.960 got these aluminum arrows will probably fly different, you know 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.120 there because it says a loom. I'm right on the shaft. 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:36.800 I don't know how we got our wires crossed, and 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:38.880 they gave me a loominum arrows. I wouldn't even think 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.279 an art shop would even sell alumin of arrows anymore, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.720 with carbon and the other materials one might use for 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:50.320 an arrow. And then not twenty minutes later, I looked 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.560 down at my thing and Sam says, what kind of 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.200 eras are they? And I said, well, there Eastern FM 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:04.080 Jay's ship. It says automari. They are not allumin of arrows. 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.520 And I'm an idiot, but they shot great, though they 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.960 did shoot shoot great if you like gut shots and 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.560 leg shots and hitting rocks. Yeah, hitting rocks. Well, you 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.679 showed up prepared. It's not the arrow's fault. Let's let's 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.040 get that. No, it's the Indians fault. It's the that's 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.240 for sure. No, I will say, like when you show 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.600 up to these things. I felt more prepared coming into 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.520 this this weekend than I did I have for a 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.320 lot of things that showing up with a bow. But 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.160 I just whether it was string stretched from a hundred 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.840 it's a new bow. I probably shot through it. Sat 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.440 rode around in the truck for a day while we 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.720 were coming back in a hundred and five degrees string stretch. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.080 Whatever act showed up here, the people's all twisted up. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:55.240 I was shooting about two ft left six inches low. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.840 Had to put on a new tape, and that took 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.840 me a whole day of being terrible. You gotta dialed 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.400 in the I gotta dialed in. At last eight targets 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.000 of yesterday, I felt like I was finally getting there 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.680 out of the fifty targets that we've shot. So anyway, 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:16.680 just peek behind the curtain, as it were, to give 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.880 you a little insight on how stupid I am at 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.400 certain times. Cole knows all about about that. You know, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.160 I've enjoyed our times together, been and I have noticed 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.720 a few things about you. But kind of like a 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.760 little brother or something, I feel like, you know, it's okay. 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:36.760 Sometimes we all have brain parts or whatever it is 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.560 you call your personal Yeah, are you concerned about I'm 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.240 totally used to it by now, so it doesn't really 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.280 difect me. Seek help or I try to find some 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.760 kind of like counseling or maybe read a book. There's 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:54.319 probably some books that you could, yes, how not to 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.920 not to be a dumbass, how not to be so forgetful. Yeah, 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.960 it forgets off a lot. There's a lot going on, man, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:08.360 a whole lot going on. Well, that happens, It definitely happens. Listen, UM, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.840 tell people what you do for a living. Well, I 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.600 have lived up in Kodiak, Alaska, I guess since two 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:20.080 thousand and two after I graduated high school, and I 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.440 am a hunting guide. UM run a small operation up there, 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.440 and then still work for a few other outfitters in 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:32.240 Alaska and some other parts some other parts of the world, 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.160 and kind of just I just, you know, figured at 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.720 some point when I take this career seriously, I gotta 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.040 just hit it hard and I'm gonna pay the bills. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:48.520 So pretty much year round hunting guide around bears, Kodiak 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:53.360 brown bears, yep, Kodiak brown bears, Sitka blacktailed deer, mountain goats, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.400 uh do a little bit of doll sheep up on 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.559 the mainland, brown bears on the mainland as well on 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:03.440 the peninsula. So um, and what ends up happening, you know, 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.120 you know, punting with some of these guys multiple times clients, 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.120 and they kind of want to continue the hunting with you, 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.760 and so I'll help line up trips for them to 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.680 kind of, you know, go wherever they their hearts desire. 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.920 Most of my trips are all mountain trips. So Mexico, right, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.280 we do some trips, Yep, you gotta go with Dustin 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.760 Rod down there to uh Mexico in the Baja on 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:27.240 some desert sheep and then um, you know, uh, guys 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.880 want to go to Azerbaijan or Nepal or places like 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.480 that or um. Kind of try to help guys get 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.520 lined up, but going wherever they want to go. Most 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:35.880 of us they here that I've been there and they 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.000 kind of want to And and you meet these other 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.240 outfitters at these outdoor conventions and whatnot, and you spark 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.760 up relationships and so you kinda you don't go different places. 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.400 So it's yeah, it's um, it's been a pretty fun 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.080 fun ride. Not ready, not ready to get off it yet, 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.200 So I don't think you will. What why Codiac, Well, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.920 I have, um my aunt lives there. M My aunt 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.679 and uncle moved up there from uh they were in 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.679 the Coastguard. They were also from Kansas where I originally 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.440 grew up by Pratt, Kansas, and my uncle was a 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:13.800 station there. He was a H sixty pilot for that's 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.000 the helicopters, like like a black Hawk for the Coastguard, 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.120 and um, I went up there when I was eleven 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.760 and just loved it. They invited me up there, um 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:26.920 and went back up a few other times after that. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.200 I just absolutely loved it and thought to myself, you know, 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:32.560 when I was probably thirteen or fourteen, I'm definitely gonna 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.400 move there after high school. And my uncle was a 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.760 huge influence on my life. Um, and so he invited 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.640 me to come up there after high school and so yeah, 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.640 definitely gonna do it, And so moved up week after 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:51.120 high school. Unfortunately, he passed away an airplane crash, so shoot, 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.680 when I guess it was about nine years ago potentially, 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.640 I guess. So that was really bumm deal. But my 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.040 aunt is still up there, um, so I get to 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.320 see her quite often. So I was really blessed to 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.240 have someone there, right. I wasn't totally blind on just 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.520 going up to Alaska. I had a very very good 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.400 stepping stone and very supportive family members there, So that 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.760 was that was great. Shout out to Pratt Kansas. What's 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.599 the population of prat Kansas? Pratt Kansas, I think is 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:26.440 somewhere around people than I thought. Yeah, my best friends 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.160 that there are are back there and great people, great town. 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.520 Enjoy going back there each each year. And for sure, yeah, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.680 I mean I think guiding. When I think of guiding, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:41.160 you don't think of uh, you know, you think of 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.760 a career in that industry. But you kind of flipped 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.360 it over a little bit too. You know, have a 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.760 name and have a reputation in the hunting industry, you know, 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.080 all over with brands, with media, with all the things 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.000 you've done. Is that was that intentional or did you 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.840 just always stumbling all that? You know, it's kind of 0:12:58.000 --> 0:12:59.880 It's one I think it has to do with your past, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.880 whatever you're in and wanting to better your field that 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:08.880 you're in. And for me, um, you know, I I 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:13.760 just loved always talking about gear and exploring the types 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.440 of gear that we're out there. You know, we had 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.079 the old school Cabello stuff and then you know then 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.960 I had a short stint like wearing Filson and things 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.880 of that nature, like on my on my hunts and whatnot. 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.559 But then then I thought, you know, this mountaineering stuff, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.040 that's that's the way to go. These mountaineer guys have 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.040 got it figured out, you know. And so then I 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.080 kind of got to the point where I got, you know, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:41.120 frustrated with UM trying to buy this this equipment with 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.559 companies that did not support my industry as a hunter, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:47.400 and I thought, well, there's really no no reason for 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.600 me to be supporting these types of people. And so 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.840 that's when I started, uh, you know, going towards Sitka 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:59.200 Gear and UM. It just kind of morphed into just 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.560 trying to help a company. And they had plenty of 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.080 great guys also with them, helping and other you know, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.240 athletes or whatnot. But from my point of view of 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.080 what I was personally doing and seeing things either fail 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.480 or what we're doing great, I just always felt the 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.480 urge to call them and just say hey, this is great, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.160 or you know, this isn't doing so good, but trying 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:27.680 to focus on constructive criticism. And that's kind of the 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.000 way I've always been with the companies that I have, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.280 you know, in lined myself with these are these are 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.440 this is gear? Or or things that I truly use, 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.080 and not just because someone says, here, we'll give you 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.120 some stuff for free because you're a guide or something. 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.600 This is. These are things that I would much rather, um, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.160 turn down things for free and go buy something that 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.640 I really want to use, rather than just taking free things. Um. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.520 It's not how I operate. Kodiak is not a place 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.480 that would abide by that kind of no no. I 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.600 I I remember a few times, um, getting on my 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.280 satellite phone. I remember I had a set of rain 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.240 gear that blew out a zipper on my leg. And 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.440 you know, like on day five of a ten day 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.080 hunting up in snow and rain, watching these rams, sitting 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.520 over top of these rams with an archery hunter, and 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:15.640 I got on my statphone and just you know, called 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.000 the office and said, hey, guys, just letting you know, 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:22.040 UM zipper blew out. Um. And they said, oh, so sorry, 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.400 so sorry. You know, we'll we'll get that replaced. You know, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.840 no problem, we'll sing. I said, I know, but that's 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.800 five days out and twenty miles away from me getting 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.400 out of this place. You have to think about what 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.200 people are going through and and not you know, so 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.400 me I wasn't trying to call and yell at people. 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.840 It was just like, please understand what people are going 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.360 through wearing your your gear. I don't care if it's 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.560 gear or a gun scope, whatever it is. As a company, 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.120 you have to look at the most extreme end of things. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.480 And I got sick and tired of listening to people say, well, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:58.400 you're a guide. It's not gonna last for you. You You know, 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.640 it's more mainly men for these consumers, you know, and 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.240 this and that, well that's not a very good you know, 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.680 and that that that wasn't coming from some of these 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:08.640 the companies. Just I would hear that every once in 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.080 a while from these these companies when I would say, uh, 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.120 you know, these boots didn't really last well, but yeah, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.840 but you warm on this many hunts and then you know, 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.240 and it's like right, and it's like, well, guys, you know, 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.520 no matter what it is, right, I mean you That's 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.440 the way I feel. And and luckily the companies that 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.400 I'm in line with right now, I'm so blessed because 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:31.480 that is what they base their things. If if I 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.040 can wear it, or if the other guys that I'm 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.320 associated with with these companies can wear it um or 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:39.960 or use it, and we try to find all the 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.640 faults so it doesn't happen to you. Does it still happen? 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.080 It does, But I did. I guess getting back to 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.000 I just really felt um getting back to what you 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:49.760 were asking, did I see it? No, it just kind 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.280 of morphed into that wanting to always help. I don't 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.760 care about you know, um, as bad as it sounds, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.600 I don't really care about you know, how many likes 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.200 or followers you're you get on all this social media 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:02.840 because I just feel like, if I can help my 0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:05.879 hunters be more prepared, that's what I really care about. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:07.800 Because at the end of the day, I've been trying 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.600 for years to get you to care more about social media. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.639 You just won't do it. No, It's just it's one 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.199 of those things at the end of the day, you know, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.880 if I if I can help my hunters be prepared 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:20.200 and when they show up, you know, because it's really 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.600 hard sometimes for me to you know, get this person 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.000 and you feel bad as a guide, you know, to 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.160 get this person to spend all this extra money, whether 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.920 we're on clothing, a gun, optics, whatever, it may be 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.560 a pack but it's like, listen, I want you to 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.439 be the most comfortable person that you can possibly be 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.720 out here on the mountain, because this ten days could 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.639 be the most miserable time of your entire life. And 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.680 so if you go by our structure of gear and whatnot, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.560 I mean, it's my fault. If I tell you to 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.879 get some in it and it fails on you on 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:58.960 the hunt, well that's my fault. But I don't want 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.639 to have you show up something that you think will work, 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:03.960 but yet I know it won't work, And so I 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.000 at least have to speak my piece. These people try 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.680 to getting prepared and and you know, just be comfortable 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.080 on the hunt. You know, it's like showing up in 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.280 good shape. I take that very very seriously, physical conditioning 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.520 and whatnot. I want people to be happy and and 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.840 uh and and comfortable on these hunts. And so that's 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.960 where it's all kind of That's what I really feel 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.800 like is the most important in my aspect is preparing 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.520 people and getting them ready for their hunts, and in 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:35.920 these companies understanding on what these types of what these 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.800 people can get into potentially. Well, yeah, because you wouldn't 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.600 make you want to make gear for the harshest climates, right, 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:45.600 you want to be a company you should want to. 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.600 You shouldn't want to. I mean, yeah, you want to 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:52.199 make a profit, but you should aspire to your world 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:55.800 that's aspired to Kodiak and make make products that can 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.640 stand up to that place. Because if we can stand 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.720 up to Kodiak, do pretty good anywhere. That there's the 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:02.880 reason why the Navy Seals have a training base there, 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.000 and that's where you know they're testing out all their 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:07.960 mountain gear, getting it lined out. And that's how I 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.640 met John Barklow. You know, when I moved in two 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.280 thousand two. I think Barklow moved there as well around 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.159 two thousand two, and I met him. I was at 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:23.359 a um at a volunteer search and rescue. My dad's 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:24.960 a firefighter, and I always want to be a firefighter. 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.159 But when the outfits of Workwood said, you know, if 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:28.960 you really want to make a difference and like be 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.560 more you know, helpful in the mountains, you maybe want 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.919 to look at this mountain rescue team. And so I 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.240 just joined a volunteer mountain rescue team with a bunch 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.200 of the locals and and Barklow came in one time. 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:42.800 I didn't know him. A buddy came in to explain 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.240 gear to us, explain clothing and how it should be worn, 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:47.960 because a lot of us, yeah, we're in a mountain 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.080 rescue team, but we're just there as volunteers trying to help. 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:52.480 We don't really know what we're doing. Okay, we're there 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.520 to learn and to help people. And so Barklow is 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.560 there and and gave a talk. I mean it just 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.800 was ingrained in my head. It was like doors being like, wow, 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.520 that makes sense. Okay, that makes sense because I was 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.880 back in the day. When I say back to day, 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.840 it makes it sound old, but like realistically, unless you 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:12.520 were really paying attention to mountaineering stuff and following that 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.040 kind of stuff. Remember, social media wasn't really like all 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.320 these chat rooms and whatnot. Maybe they had, maybe they 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.480 went on, but I didn't. I didn't look at any 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.080 of that stuff. I didn't read any of that stuff. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:24.240 I would just go into these gear shops and think 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.360 to myself, Oh, maybe this would work, maybe that would work, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.120 and we'd all come up with their own little systems 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.560 or like you see systems at Cabela's that's on the 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:33.720 same page. So I think you'd buy that whole set 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.200 thinking about what was offered at Cabela's ten years ago. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.719 Think about what was offered at all ten years ago. 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.719 How old is Sitka? Yeah, it's yeah, they were, It's 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.920 about about them. They were just just becoming Yeah it's 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.240 a leaven reality eleven years yeah, somewhere there. So they 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.120 were a tiny outfit then just getting just getting going. 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.280 And imagine you know what spawned out of that idea. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.000 UM is a move in in the hunting industry to 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.600 go further but be comfortable as you're doing it, UM. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.800 And that's been it's been spurred on by companies like 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.840 six your gear UM for for hunts to be more 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.480 hardcore and to be you know, guided sometimes, but also 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.840 just hey, this is the gear built for somebody that's 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.800 gonna adventure. Sure, well, you just never know. I was 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.600 just talking with a guy UM over there bay Portral 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.480 it just a bit ago, you know, and he's gonna 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.840 come up to go um blacktail hunting UM on Kodiak 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.000 and and it was more and I was telling him 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:34.919 about our experience and whatnot, and I said, you know, 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.919 when you show up, just be prepared, you know. And 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:39.720 and a lot of guys are you know, feel very 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.679 comfortable about camping and this and that the other. But 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.560 it's like you really don't understand until you're a hundred 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:50.360 miles from anywhere and you're blowing eighty and it's snowing 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:53.879 sideways in your camp is caving in on you, and 0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.520 things are getting real, like very very real, and so 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:03.080 you really can't stress enough about being prepared with with 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.399 the right gear and physically, mentally everything being prepared. And 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.920 so we are very very blessed at this point in time. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:15.119 All everyone out there listening is we are all so 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:18.359 blessed right now with with there are I mean, obviously 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.960 I wear six Gear, that is what I've totally believe in, 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.320 but there are other great companies out there right now 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.760 that are making great gear, and that's what happens with 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.000 companies that do that. Yet he is a great example 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.280 of the same thing. You set the bar and then 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:36.960 people are gonna come and chase that bar and try 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.240 to jump it. And I think it's only good for hunters, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.920 that's really good for consumers. It's great because it keeps 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.879 pushing people, you know, it keeps pushing um the other guys. 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:48.440 And you know, when guys show up to my camp 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.000 and I'm looking at what they're wearing, and I you know, 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:51.800 I go over and I'm touching it or you don't know, 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.879 and I ask questions and and we all have our opinions. 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:01.840 But as a guide, UM, I get blessed with seen 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.800 all the wonderful things that happened to clothing. And people 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.880 can give their spiels all they want, but I get 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.320 to see firsthand what actually happens to other guys clothing. 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:15.720 And it could be the same brand I'm wearing, or 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.199 it could be some other brand, and um, but I 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:21.440 get to see the wear and tear. I don't care 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:26.119 if it's packs, rain gear, whatever it is. Um. You know. 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.199 Bottom line with me is I can guarantee you that 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:34.119 I do not like being cold and wet. And I 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.560 live on Kodiak Island and guide in the cheegatch and 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:43.439 guide wherever shit happens around the world. I don't like 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:45.960 being cold and wet, and I honestly can't remember the 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:50.400 last time that I was miserable out in the environment, 0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:55.280 you know. Um. And but with that said, you have 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:00.800 to understand how to where that. I mean, It's like 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.600 me my MacBook Pro. I mean, I buy it and 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:05.639 I'm thinking, oh sweet, look at all this cool stuff 0:24:05.640 --> 0:24:06.960 you can do. And well, I know how to turn 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:11.280 it on, write some emails, so with some photos and 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.040 and that's really all I really know how to do 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:15.440 to do with it. But you know, when a guy 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:18.080 really knows what they're doing with their gear or with 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:22.440 that piece of equipment, it goes so much further. And um, 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.919 I'm a huge, huge, huge, you know, advocate of just 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.720 like I'm always watching my clients. I'm always paying attention 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:31.240 to them while they're hiking, and I'm watching them get 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:34.960 get hot. And a huge issue with people is they're 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:36.960 wearing their rain gear and they're wearing too much clothing 0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.679 underneath or the wrong type of clothing underneath, and they sweat. 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:42.119 Then before you know what, they're saying, all this ranger sucks. Man. 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:44.760 I got wet, Well, it was raining and it's horrible 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:48.120 and I got really cold, and it's like, well did 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:50.320 you strip down? Did you? Were you wearing all your 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:53.360 layers where? You know, all these people keep their jackets 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.119 zipped all the way up. You know, it's a vicious 0:24:56.119 --> 0:25:00.439 cycle when you get uh, sweaty hot, and then all 0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:03.560 of a sudden, now you get cold, and but they 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.560 don't want to unzip and let breathe. You know, well, yeah, vents. 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:09.119 I mean all these top top flight rain gear all 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:11.440 has vents in it. And that's right, that's right, and 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:13.679 but it's it is. It is something where I have 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:16.560 to almost argue with people sometimes like hey, you need 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:18.800 to take that off. No, I'm good, Nope, you need 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:21.000 to take it off, trust me. And it's like I 0:25:21.040 --> 0:25:23.600 have to. I almost had to treat some of my 0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:27.000 hunters like children sometimes because they're not used to. When 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:29.200 I came up to Kodiak, I think I had it 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:31.439 all though. I was square on, like I had the 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:35.200 right you know, sick of puffy, all the down stuff 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:37.880 I needed to have, had the right synthetics, right rain gear, 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:40.560 but I don't have the right gloves. Remember we were 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:43.479 skinning that deer and I'm like, my gloves. I had 0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:45.280 three pairs of gloves in my pack and they were 0:25:45.320 --> 0:25:47.560 all soaked and they were all screwed. Rightever, They're like, 0:25:47.600 --> 0:25:51.679 look at these gloves, My hands are hot. Did you 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:53.400 want to pair of these? I got two on. Oh 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:55.720 my god, I have three pairs of gloves and I 0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.640 ended up wearing my rubber gloves that I brought for 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.439 taking rafts in and out of ever whatever on the 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:03.760 way out because my hands are so cold. Right, So 0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.800 it's those little things, you know, I think I was 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:08.760 probably there, But this is that you forget the right 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:11.200 gloves or you don't think about what gloves you might 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.040 have to have in those situations. Yeah, a lot, a 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:16.800 lot of people aren't used to that, and and I do. 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:21.240 I remember talking to John Barklow when he was UM 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:24.000 came in and chatted with us about gear and I 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:27.880 and we got two gloves and he said, man, gloves 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:30.840 are the weakest point and in all gear. And I 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:34.280 remember I remember saying something of that nature, saying, everyone 0:26:34.359 --> 0:26:37.560 is different. Everyone's circulation is different, you know, with their hands. 0:26:37.560 --> 0:26:41.080 Like me, I were mittens a lot because on the 0:26:41.119 --> 0:26:45.040 sides of my fingers if I have UM tighter fitting 0:26:45.520 --> 0:26:49.320 fingered gloves on, UM, I my circulation gets cut off 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:53.200 and my hands get really cold. And the biggest misconception, 0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.000 I think, like when people are wearing mittens, even they'll 0:26:56.000 --> 0:26:59.080 wear a little liner glove on underneath it in their 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:00.760 hands are like, oh man, I its are still cold. 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:02.480 You know. It's like we'll take those off, you know, 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.080 like I I do better with it, just my you know, 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:07.760 being able to touch my own skin underneath the mitten 0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:12.480 and instead of having um, all these extra tight gloves on. 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:14.280 The worst thing you can do is have tight gloves on. 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:19.000 I feel and um, you know, I'll carry some handwarmers occasionally, 0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:21.879 and it's funny they'll sit in my bag forever, and 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:24.399 then finally one day, like while I'm glassing for bears, 0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:26.520 I'll say, okay, maybe I'll break out those handworms. And 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.199 it's always like, gosh, why didn't I freaking do that 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:33.359 ten days ago? These are nice, but but gloves are 0:27:33.400 --> 0:27:35.640 a tough one, you know, they really really are. Everyone's 0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:38.840 circulation is different, but bottom line is you need to 0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:41.480 have like I wear a lot of times. I'll have 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:44.359 a thin pair of leather gloves just for hiking in 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:47.240 you know, I trip and stumble every every once I'm 0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.159 breaking branches out of the trail, So I like to 0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:53.560 have a light, um, a light set of leather gloves on, UM, 0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:56.480 so no thorns or anything can get through UM. And 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.119 I'm not you know, tearing up the material of like 0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:02.600 a you know, some soft shell glove want breaking branches 0:28:02.720 --> 0:28:06.240 or using my machette or whatever. But um, you know, 0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:09.240 you need to have you need to think, Okay, what situations, 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.080 you know, And maybe it's three pairs of gloves. You 0:28:11.119 --> 0:28:13.800 have a light a light pair, you know, maybe an 0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.800 insulating pair, and then a waterproof pair. And I'm really 0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.280 big advocate of like on these on these UM rain 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:23.760 gloves and the waterproof gloves. They need to be a 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.320 glove that you can take a liner out to dry. 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:28.560 That's the only way you'll ever be able to dry 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:31.000 them out in a in a spike camp scenario, pull 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:32.879 the liner out. And a lot of times if they're wet, 0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:35.560 I'll put them in my little side pockets of my pants, 0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:39.040 you know, and I'll sleep with them in my in 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.160 my side pockets of my pants. That's the only way 0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:42.480 you can dry them out. If you don't have a 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:45.520 heating element in your tent of any sort. See, just 0:28:45.560 --> 0:28:47.600 wear your clothes, you know. And that was the other thing, 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:51.520 you know, learning that from John years ago and um 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:53.240 and just some of the guides I knew, you know, 0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:56.000 if you got wet in your gear, because no matter 0:28:56.080 --> 0:28:59.440 what you have, you're gonna sweat or whatever may happen. Right, 0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:01.680 I mean, how you could hit a hit a branch 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:04.280 and it and it rips something on your pants or 0:29:04.320 --> 0:29:06.880 something like that, a rock or something, and and you're 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.120 gonna get wet occasionally or fall in the river. That's 0:29:09.160 --> 0:29:11.080 the biggest thing that I think about when I have 0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:13.400 an extra set, an extra set of close at camp. 0:29:13.640 --> 0:29:16.200 I don't just change into those clothes when I get stinky, 0:29:16.480 --> 0:29:19.480 I change into those clothes. That's a backup pair for 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:22.160 if I fall in the river and get wet or 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:24.040 or something like that. I would fall in a creek 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:28.200 or something like that, or my hunter get is hypothermic 0:29:28.320 --> 0:29:30.280 or whatever happened and maybe he falls on river. So 0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:33.120 it's a backup for that. But if you need to 0:29:33.240 --> 0:29:35.600 dry out, the only way you're gonna do that in 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:39.000 a spike camp scenario is climb in your sleeping bag 0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:41.440 and dry out, you know, and you gotta wear it 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:43.480 and it will seem a little bit uncomfortable at first, 0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:46.680 but it heats up. And that's that's mainly. With a 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.000 synthetic bag, you can do that. I you know, can 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.960 you get away with with with that dry down? Yeah, 0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:56.840 but it doesn't it won't handle the same way as 0:29:56.920 --> 0:30:00.960 a sythetic moisture. Well that the down, the down goes 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:03.800 goes limp and over time, I don't care what what 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:07.760 you have when it talks about this fantastic, amazing dry 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.480 down stuff. I personally it wears out over time when 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:13.960 you're when you are taking it out and and compressing, 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.360 and you're taking it out, compressing out, compressing, you do 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:19.240 that a billion times. Well it's you end up kind 0:30:19.240 --> 0:30:23.880 of wearing it out. But regardless um regards, it's just 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.560 all this stuff's fascinating me. And I know we're in 0:30:26.640 --> 0:30:29.320 a time where it's very fascinating for a lot of people, 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.440 you know, to learn about all this stuff. We're very 0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:34.800 very fortunate we are. We're fortunate to be in a 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:37.840 bus or where both of us are. It's raining and poor. 0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:40.520 I mean it's it's it's miserable outside. Dude, it's just 0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:44.720 a mud puddle. Nobody is outside. This has been the 0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:48.240 hangout bus. It's funny. There'll be fiber you know, eight 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:50.160 people hanging out in the bus and here we are 0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:52.840 podcasting and everyone has to stand outside while we're in there. 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:57.480 All yeah, we're dicks. They're like, you have hot coke code. 0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.880 It's so warm with the bus calling. I've both taken 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:03.760 naps in the bus today as well, it's very nice. 0:31:03.920 --> 0:31:06.480 Thank you saying for the bus. Very nice. I would say, like, 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:09.640 I think you and I have a couple of pretty 0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:13.920 good stories to tell. I feel, ah, they might if 0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:16.520 we try to combine them both into one podcast, it might. 0:31:16.640 --> 0:31:19.400 This might end up be in three hours. I don't 0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:23.760 call it. What was it about hunting? We were hunting? Yeah, 0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:27.320 I don't really recall our adventures. Well, I'll walk you 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:33.280 through them. Oh, I remember, Oh, I remember I was there. 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:37.680 I don't know, I think, Um, I don't know, man. 0:31:38.080 --> 0:31:45.000 I remember being a different person, probably before I started 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:47.840 working at YETI maybe before I started working at Peterson Sunning, 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:53.640 and just being a regular hunter and thinking thinking about adventures, 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.960 adventure type hunting or mountain hunting or things of that nature, 0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:03.480 has this law far off reality, And then also thinking 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:07.200 at the time the gear needed to do that was silly. 0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:11.400 You know, nobody could ever afford it. Um, nobody would 0:32:11.400 --> 0:32:15.160 ever aspire to spend that much on the hunt and 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:18.240 the gear, and what would you really get? Why wouldn't 0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:21.240 you just you know, stay home and shoot a white tail. 0:32:21.960 --> 0:32:24.960 I remember that being in my mind for a long time, 0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:27.760 and I don't know that I ever had the aspiration. 0:32:27.760 --> 0:32:31.400 I never read um hunting magazines or watched TV with 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.280 some aspiration to go to the Yukon with Jim Shock, 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:35.880 can shoot a moose or anything like that. I just 0:32:36.120 --> 0:32:39.880 always felt pretty happy at home and pretty normal, not 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:42.600 not want to do those things. But as I've been 0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:46.360 lucky enough to do some of that stuff, it's changed 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:47.920 me in a way that I don't know that i'll 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:51.400 ever I'll ever be able to put my finger on 0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:55.240 or ever be able to explain. And I think you know, 0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:59.280 in my experience with you is like the consistent exposure 0:32:59.320 --> 0:33:03.600 to those strug is man, it makes you appreciate every 0:33:03.600 --> 0:33:06.680 little opportunity to have in life, whether it's go out 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:08.680 to the bar with your buddies or go to a 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:13.000 trade show, or take a shower, take a shower, clean socks. Yeah, 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.040 I will remember that shower we took in Catman do 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:23.440 for the rest of my not together shower And I 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:28.920 mean it was Conserva water. You know, we're environmentalists, but yeah, 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:30.840 those types of things when you when you come off 0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:33.560 with those adventures, and I don't I've tried to probably 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.960 over time, explain what it feels like in the perspective 0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:42.440 it gives you and like, what, um, what the meaning is? 0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:46.160 And and I must. I was listening to Rogan's podcast 0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:49.840 with Dennis McKenna this morning. I was getting ready and 0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.239 they were talking about how psychedelics kind of give you 0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:56.720 this weird view of reality because you're in psychedelics, you 0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:00.960 start to see things in different lights. So Joe was 0:34:01.000 --> 0:34:05.440 talking about driving down a paved road and seeing thinking 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:08.640 about this road normally, like it's a road, and I 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:10.640 don't have to think about that anymore. It's a road, 0:34:10.680 --> 0:34:12.680 it's a paved road. I drive down it every day. 0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:15.400 I'm gonna shut my mind off and I don't have 0:34:15.440 --> 0:34:17.440 to think about what I'm actually doing because I'm driving 0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:19.759 on the road. Everybody does it, there's no need to 0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:23.080 examine it. But then when you know he expands his 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:26.320 minds via psychedelics, he's thinking, damn, what am I doing this? 0:34:26.920 --> 0:34:29.959 We've chosen to pave over this area and roll over 0:34:30.000 --> 0:34:35.120 it and one ton machine like we're weird. Humans are weird. 0:34:35.920 --> 0:34:39.040 And I feel probably in a less aggressive way than 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.880 the taking mushrooms, but coming back from these adventure hunts, man, 0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:46.200 I feel almost like that, like you're you're exposed to 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:52.640 the harshness of the world, and then all the niceties 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:57.160 of the world seem odd like, it seems like this, 0:34:57.160 --> 0:35:01.040 this thing that is normal to us is not normal 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:05.280 to the world. Paved roads are not what nature and 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:08.560 the natural world provided. We've done that the smooth over 0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:13.319 the rough points in our existence, and I remember, and 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:16.600 I remember just thinking about that. Even in this morning, 0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:20.640 I was getting a share of thinking about hunting. Being 0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:24.880 exposed to true adventure hunting like you've done. Yeah, I 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:26.960 think it changes you in ways that you're not really 0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:32.120 you never really know until maybe you're done with it retired. Yeah, 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:39.280 it's it's definitely for me, That's what I believe. Obviously, 0:35:39.280 --> 0:35:43.040 when people UM call me and they want to book 0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:47.279 a hunt, you know, UM, they're they're they're you know, 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:49.640 part of their goal and maybe the main part of 0:35:49.640 --> 0:35:51.600 their goal was to come on a brown bear hunt 0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:55.560 and get their bear um or their dear or you know, 0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:57.239 you want to go get your elk or wherever it. 0:35:57.280 --> 0:36:03.600 Maybe that's fine, But with me, UM, it has morphed 0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:08.880 into and I think this happened after spending so much 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:13.520 time in the field and experiencing like what you mentioned, 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:20.000 how you feel afterwards that I absolutely truly enjoy giving 0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:25.480 that feeling to people. Not to be um confused with 0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:30.080 a guide that loves breaking people and loves putting them 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:35.040 to through misery. That is not absolutely not what I 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:38.759 have ever enjoyed doing. Where you hear many guides who 0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:41.000 you hear about these stories, these young guides or whatever 0:36:41.040 --> 0:36:44.239 that just want to break their hunters. No, um, my, 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:49.520 my absolute joy is doing exactly what you you said, 0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:54.920 is taking people, exposing them to um the elements and 0:36:55.080 --> 0:37:00.000 showing them that you can survive. We are okay, um, 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.799 We're able to get through this and to do it 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:06.880 in a fairly you know, easy manner once you do 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.759 actually know how to do it. It's just I feel 0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:11.840 like that expands your mind. Even though the example you 0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:14.640 gave of being in a sleeping bag and being uncomfortable, 0:37:14.840 --> 0:37:17.560 you know, like your your it range your wet. First 0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:18.839 thing you want to do a strip off your clothes 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:21.600 and getting sleem be comfortable. But if the quickest way 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:23.520 to be warm the next day is to stay wet 0:37:23.560 --> 0:37:26.120 and getting your sleeping bag, then that's what you have 0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:29.320 to do. That's an expansion of what your your willingness 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:32.040 to be miserable and you're It's an expansion of your 0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:35.080 mindset right as a human. You have to think when 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:36.840 you're going to be out there. You always have to 0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.880 think ahead. I don't care what. I don't care what's 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:43.680 It starts on the stage before you get on the airplane, 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.359 when you hand them your backpack. Where is your rain gear? 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:48.480 Is it in the bottom or is it on top? 0:37:48.560 --> 0:37:50.720 Maybe you have it on, maybe it don't, but always 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:52.759 have it close by. It starts at the very very 0:37:52.800 --> 0:37:57.480 beginning um to every single point of your day of 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:00.640 anything you do out there, you have to think ahead. 0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.640 Even if it's miserable, you have to go outside and 0:38:04.680 --> 0:38:06.920 do it. Do I really want to drop down a 0:38:06.960 --> 0:38:10.239 thousand feet to get water right now? No? But if 0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:13.279 I wake up at five am and want, you know, 0:38:13.480 --> 0:38:14.759 and want to stay up on the ridge line, you 0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.200 go look at these rams. I don't want to. I 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:19.719 mean I want to get up and have coffee and 0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:22.680 have my oatmeal. I better go down and get the 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:25.279 water right now, otherwise it's gonna be miserable in the 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:28.600 morning or whatever. You know, just every aspect you know, 0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:31.120 tying your tent down appropriately. If you don't do it now, 0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:34.759 I call it the Chinese fire drill, no offense. But uh, 0:38:35.000 --> 0:38:36.400 in the middle of the night you wake up your 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.040 tents flapping. It's something's broke. You gotta fix it. I mean, 0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:43.160 you have every single aspect. I micromanage everything out there 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.840 to a t because I know what can happen over time, 0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:49.279 and you have to think about it. Um, well, how 0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:52.040 much time does that take to get normal? Because I 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.000 found like and hunting with you or you know, doing 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:56.759 all these types of hunts. As you get out there, 0:38:57.200 --> 0:39:00.719 I feel like the normal world, the real world that 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:02.759 I live in, the day to day life dolls me up. 0:39:02.960 --> 0:39:05.200 Like about was a knife, I'd be rusty and doll 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:08.040 after about a month. And then I get out there 0:39:08.040 --> 0:39:10.280 and it usually takes me a day or two to sharpen. 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:12.919 And then by the time I'm done, I'm sharp as fuck. 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:15.560 And then by and I go back and I feel 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:18.719 depressed to be back and be getting rusty again. And 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:20.439 I've had this. My wife talks about all the times, 0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:27.279 serious problem with getting back and being super depressed. Not right. 0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:29.319 I get through it, sure, but you feel like you're 0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:31.080 starting to get rusty again, and you can see it 0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:33.759 in your own mind. You're like, man, I'm starting to 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:36.920 get frustrated by traffic, and I'm starting to get frustrated 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:39.879 by my email not working, when I'm starting to get 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:42.840 frustrated by my phone the text not going through, or 0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:45.320 something like are you frustrated with people? Yeah, frustrating and 0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:48.960 get people frustrated with people very easily because they don't 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:51.759 they don't respect and they don't know what they have, 0:39:52.440 --> 0:39:55.640 where as us that do spend time out and I 0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:59.680 go back. You know, it's really really changed me in 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:03.480 a anner to appreciate people like I probably you know, 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:09.600 I've always loved my parents, but I guarantee you after um, 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:12.319 being in the woods and being out with no contact 0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:14.759 or you know, because back in the day I didn't 0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:16.839 have a satellite phone. I mean i'd be with someone 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:19.800 sometimes add a satellite phone, or maybe at radio or whatever. 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:24.400 But um, I always I felt after a few circumstances 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:27.960 that have happened with me, whether it be you know, 0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:30.480 almost falling off a mountain or bear charge of me 0:40:30.560 --> 0:40:34.399 and about grabbing me, um to just any little thing, 0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:37.080 you know, I go back and just appreciate my family, 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:41.680 appreciate my friends. I remember, like the first few times 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:44.040 I went home after moving to Alaska, and just seeing 0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:46.840 my friends, you know, all these pitily little things that 0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:51.319 people were whining and griping about, um uh, you know 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:53.400 about oh well we don't like this guy anymore, we 0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:55.759 don't like this person more, or oh gosh, can you 0:40:55.800 --> 0:40:58.319 believe this? And I was just like, wow, I can't 0:40:58.320 --> 0:41:01.000 believe this, Like I I don't understand why these people 0:41:01.040 --> 0:41:03.240 are being like that, like because I just I remember 0:41:03.280 --> 0:41:05.600 seeing people that maybe I didn't really like him at 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:07.719 one point in time, but I'd seem like, hey, how 0:41:07.800 --> 0:41:09.480 are you doing, how are you man? What's up? How 0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:11.520 are you? You know? And I got to a point 0:41:11.520 --> 0:41:13.520 where I could honestly say there was no one that 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:17.920 I had an issue with, period or or I just 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:22.520 appreciated things. And I think that that's what upsets me 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:26.480 is when I see people squabbling over these frivolous things 0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:31.120 that mean nothing, and and to me, we are out 0:41:31.120 --> 0:41:33.600 there and we I mean, when we got back from 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:36.520 our Codiac trip, which we can dive into whenever, but 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:41.040 it's just we will after that trip. I mean obviously 0:41:41.840 --> 0:41:44.800 there that was you know for you guys, well for everyone. 0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:47.920 You know, there's some some big mental screws in that thing. 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:50.719 And so when you when you come out of a 0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:54.080 trip like that, it's uh, it makes you appreciate it. 0:41:55.040 --> 0:41:58.640 So I like, as you're talking, I'm thinking about this 0:41:58.680 --> 0:42:01.040 could be a terrible analogy, but thinking about as you 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:04.280 you know, if you're a knife and the regular life 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:09.160 dolls you up, that makes it harder to cut through life. Right, 0:42:09.239 --> 0:42:11.520 So the dollars you become, the softer you become in 0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.200 regular life, the harder it is to get through situations 0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:17.680 because you don't have the ability to see the entire picture. 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:22.359 So smaller things become harder to cut through because you're 0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:24.520 just soft and your doll and you you don't you're 0:42:24.560 --> 0:42:27.400 not sharp enough to tackle challenges. But then you go 0:42:27.440 --> 0:42:30.319 out and do these you know, whether it's ten days 0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:32.439 or five days, what, it doesn't matter the amount of time. 0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:35.479 With these things that challenge you to break through mental 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:39.200 barriers and to break through physical berries into into you know, 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:43.160 push yourself to two limits. Your your mind is expanded 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:45.880 and you're sharper and you can cut through the bullshit 0:42:45.920 --> 0:42:48.880 of life so much faster because you don't have to 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:50.840 because you have the ability to be like, that's a 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:52.919 fucking matter. At least I don't have to walk down 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:56.120 a thousand feet to get waters, like I'm in traffic. 0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:58.279 But I got air conditioning, I got heated seats, and 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:01.160 I got sure sparkling water in a damn eddie cup. 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:03.400 I'll be all right. Yeah, at least I don't have 0:43:03.440 --> 0:43:05.640 to wake up and and hike down to the creek 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:07.279 and right and try to avoid bears while I get 0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:10.319 my water. Yeah you uh, yeah, you're sitting at your 0:43:10.360 --> 0:43:12.920 feet or feeling a little sword like, well, at least 0:43:12.920 --> 0:43:15.160 they're not wet. At least I'm not hiking twenty miles 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:18.560 up a river, you know, with sopping wet, blistered feet. 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:21.759 You know, I mean, like you say, every aspect is 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.319 um is made a little bit easier in life, I think, 0:43:25.360 --> 0:43:29.200 and you appreciate more, um, going on adventures and so 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:33.799 like for me, I really you know, Um, yes, I 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:39.520 do happen to get blessed with harvesting some large animals 0:43:39.560 --> 0:43:42.359 in the guide in our guide service. Um, we live 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:46.480 and work in an amazing place. Um yeah that's great. 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:51.239 But I we take some really big brown bears and 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:55.239 do we get tin foot bears? Yeah? We do, um, 0:43:55.320 --> 0:43:59.720 you know, but it it really I'm at a place 0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:02.880 out with with my hunting that my goals are to 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:06.360 harvest old mature animals. Okay, it doesn't always have but 0:44:06.360 --> 0:44:10.120 that's what we strive for. I do. I honestly don't 0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:14.440 care about the I hate the numbers game, absolutely hate it. 0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:18.920 And I realized that's the way that we major animals 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:21.919 and whatnot. And just so maybe when you're telling a story, 0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:23.680 how big was that whitetail, and you can tell him 0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:26.040 a score of it? Okay, now I got how big 0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:28.279 it was. I understand that, you know, And so yes, 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:32.480 we do tell people, but I absolutely love it. When 0:44:32.520 --> 0:44:33.880 I I had a guy I talked to you the 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.759 day was actually from pratt Um, but he called me. 0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:39.600 We haven't we haven't talked him forever. He's he's must 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.920 be eight years older. Mean, I just barely knew hi 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:43.640 when I was a kid. But he says, cool, you know, 0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.399 I'd really like to come up and do a sheep hunter, 0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:48.960 a bear hunt. I'm at that place now financially I 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:52.600 think I can do it, Um, But I'm just you know, man, 0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:55.480 I've been out to call out with my buddies and 0:44:55.120 --> 0:45:00.319 I really really enjoy the adventure of that. And he goes, 0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:02.880 that's what I'm kind of looking for. He goes, I don't. 0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:09.080 I'm not really into the biggest um trophy and animal size, 0:45:09.120 --> 0:45:11.600 Like I don't even know really what that size is 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.319 for these animals. But I'm really kind of looking for 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:20.799 an adventure. And that's what I thankfully, that's what a 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:25.200 lot of my hunters are here for, is an adventure. 0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:28.359 And they are there and they appreciate the animals there 0:45:28.360 --> 0:45:32.120 there to collect their meat as well. Um, And so 0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:35.960 it's it's that is what I love. I love the adventures. 0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:38.240 And people can say, well, maybe she's just not taking 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:41.520 big animals, and so that's why that's why he's saying. 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:47.840 It's it's you know, yeah, we take that. I just 0:45:47.920 --> 0:45:49.920 but I don't. I just want if I you know, 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:53.040 it's why I don't typically put the size of the 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:56.480 animals on my Instagram or whatever. I mean, I just hey, 0:45:56.520 --> 0:45:59.440 it's a great old mature bear. Okay. I don't need 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:03.279 to a dick measuring contest with some guy whatever. I'm 0:46:03.280 --> 0:46:07.640 there to, um, you know, you know, show the respect 0:46:07.640 --> 0:46:09.600 of the animal to it's you know, try to have 0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:13.000 a nice photo whatever it may be. But that's what 0:46:13.160 --> 0:46:17.520 I have tried to expose people to these types of 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:20.319 adventures to help grow them. You know, is it cool 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:22.000 to hunt with someone that really knows their stuff in 0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:24.440 the field. Oh, it's awesome. I love it when it's 0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:26.680 a team effort, you know. That's what I try to 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:30.840 do things as a team effort, not just um, be 0:46:31.000 --> 0:46:33.600 the dictator on the hunt and have to tell everyone 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:36.560 what to do all the time. Um, it's a teamwork effort. 0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:38.560 But I also really love I get. I have some 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:41.879 guys that are very new to hunting and they've hunted 0:46:41.880 --> 0:46:44.279 a little bit, but very new to mountain hunting. And 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:47.040 it's really cool that they've absolutely there to soak it 0:46:47.160 --> 0:46:50.480 up like a sponge. They they ask a billion questions, 0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:52.640 but they ask it in the right way, you know. 0:46:52.680 --> 0:46:54.560 They ask it in a way that you know they're 0:46:54.560 --> 0:46:57.239 just wanting to learn, and they soak it up. There's 0:46:57.239 --> 0:46:59.600 no ego, you know, And that's what I really that's 0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.360 what I really I love doing now. Um. Well, not 0:47:02.440 --> 0:47:04.440 that we would be here to issue some referendum on 0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:07.360 the guiding community or outfit in community, but you know, 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.160 what you're talking about is selling and the selling experience 0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:12.919 instead of an animal, you know, because you really can't 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:15.480 sell the animals there's no you can't. If you if 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:17.920 you can begin to predict, then it's no longer hunting. 0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.600 And so you can only sell the experience and say, like, 0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:25.040 here's an examples of things that we've done, animals that 0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:28.279 we've taken. Here's the examples. Right, this is what it is. 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:33.279 It's a tapestry, big, small, blonde, brown, whatever. Um, But 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:36.279 the experience is the same every time. You know, it's 0:47:36.320 --> 0:47:39.080 a struggle. You're gonna be challenged to be patient, and 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:40.880 you're gonna be challenged to be tough. You're gonna be 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:44.440 challenged to be um, you know, to embrace things that 0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:48.080 you don't don't understand and tackle challenges you couldn't imagine. 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:50.920 But at the end, that is going to be always 0:47:50.960 --> 0:47:54.440 the same, and what will change is the result. Something 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:56.880 will change along the way. Whether you kill a world 0:47:56.880 --> 0:48:03.120 record x y z or you kill representative x y z. Uh, Well, 0:48:03.120 --> 0:48:04.600 do you make a great shot or a bad shot? 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.040 Like that's all those are part of the the end 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:10.480 result of the experience that you'll have doing it. I 0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:12.840 don't you know, Like I said, I don't. Guiding is 0:48:12.880 --> 0:48:17.040 what it is. There's a lot of money in it, um, 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:19.359 But I think that that whole community could do well 0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:22.040 to try to shift to you know, your mindset rather 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:26.000 than um flip you know, trade shows with giant heads 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:29.640 and trying to lwer people in based on that the 0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:33.080 idea that you could kill something big and those situations. Well, 0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:40.239 and with us, like with my brown bears, okay, um, 0:48:40.280 --> 0:48:44.800 with my personal mindset, and in most obviously all guides 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:47.279 and hunters want to kill the biggest bear or the 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:51.280 biggest as big as that. That's tip, that's tip, that's normal. Um. 0:48:51.440 --> 0:48:54.200 But with my mindset, I only we only like to 0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:57.080 kill old mature boars. Okay, those are the ones that 0:48:57.160 --> 0:49:00.000 are the issue, the problem. Bears that do know exact 0:49:00.000 --> 0:49:04.279 actually how to go through their life, whether and try 0:49:04.320 --> 0:49:06.239 to approach a sal that won't mate with him because 0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:08.160 she's got cubs, so no problem. He knows how to 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:10.480 kill them because he knows that will set her back 0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:13.319 in the heat and so, and if she doesn't want 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:14.879 to do that and she puts up a fight, then 0:49:14.880 --> 0:49:17.719 he just kills her and eats her too. Um. So 0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:21.359 with that said, I don't even I don't know. I've 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:25.520 never heard a number from fishing game of the cub mortality. 0:49:25.760 --> 0:49:27.839 But we know it's high. And it's not just from 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:32.279 the boars killing them. They die naturally, but I but 0:49:32.360 --> 0:49:37.920 I guarantee they they take out several thousand cups. Feel like, 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:41.160 you know the other things you're thinking about from mortality 0:49:41.200 --> 0:49:44.080 rates to be predation gather. There's not a whole lot 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:48.759 of predation on bear cubs. It's just with bears. I mean, 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:52.799 I don't know what other bears other bears, um, yeah, 0:49:52.880 --> 0:49:56.279 and and like but we're yeah, and where I was 0:49:56.320 --> 0:50:02.879 going with that is as is a biologically like what 0:50:02.880 --> 0:50:05.600 what I we're trying to do is to harvest those 0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:08.000 old boars that are the problem ones, that that kill 0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:12.960 the other bears and therefore lower their population. Fishing game 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:17.520 allows us to harvest you know, um whatever. We have 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:19.759 a certain amount of tags or whatnot that they give 0:50:19.840 --> 0:50:24.600 for each area. By not they don't say, hey, okay, 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:27.799 we'll let you guys kill some bears for rugs here, okay, 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:31.799 and for trophy amounts. Okay, that's not it's it's too. 0:50:31.840 --> 0:50:37.280 It's for the population control, okay, for a conservation type 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:42.880 of effort too, to have the right population of bears 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:48.120 or to increase And so therefore with us targeting those 0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:51.880 old mature boars. We're actually increasing the amount of bears 0:50:51.880 --> 0:50:55.080 in our areas. It is unbelievable the amount of bears 0:50:55.120 --> 0:50:57.480 that used to be in our areas versus what are 0:50:57.800 --> 0:51:01.240 there now of where an area specifically that I've hunted 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:04.520 for many, many many years thirteen years me, I don't 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:09.320 recall but several years. And that I mean that area 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:13.120 we would never see susand cups, and now I mean 0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:16.000 we see him every day, and I mean there there's 0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:18.400 been times where I've seen five sets of thousand cubs 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:21.919 and they've all got two to three um salusand cups. 0:51:21.960 --> 0:51:24.120 So me deeply on the side, and you know, part 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:25.799 of me, I could have a hunter there that's wanting 0:51:25.800 --> 0:51:27.640 to do he has his own agenda whatever. But to me, 0:51:27.680 --> 0:51:30.200 in my mind set, it's like me looking over my 0:51:30.239 --> 0:51:35.200 crop as a farmer, and I'm extremely pleased, no like 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:39.480 seeing what what we have done. Okay, I don't feel 0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:43.320 like we're hunting too many bears or whatever. And truth 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:46.440 be told, we're the first ones to step up as 0:51:46.480 --> 0:51:48.800 a guide because we get to see we're the first 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:52.320 ones that step up and say maybe something to the biologist. Hey, 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:55.799 you know, here's I'm thinking I'm seeing something going on here. 0:51:56.719 --> 0:52:00.200 I thinks I see it both ways, because obviously is 0:52:00.680 --> 0:52:05.399 a wonderful topic for people to hate on, and we've 0:52:05.440 --> 0:52:09.040 done so much to anth for more on there said 0:52:09.040 --> 0:52:14.000 the word anthrow promorphize. That's a big word. I don't 0:52:14.000 --> 0:52:17.719 know what that means. I just heard someone. I heard 0:52:17.760 --> 0:52:20.600 someone else say it on the podcast. Um with you 0:52:20.640 --> 0:52:24.000 know my kid, my kids got a bear stuffed animal. 0:52:24.680 --> 0:52:27.239 He was just in Montana. He got to hug on 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:29.680 a big bear stuff animal. He has one. He has 0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:35.200 bear pajamas, he has a bear. Books about bears riding bikes, 0:52:35.560 --> 0:52:39.040 and but there doesn't have any books about bears eating cubs. 0:52:39.719 --> 0:52:43.279 We yeah, we don't that too often. But then so 0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:45.960 you know, you put that emotional element into it once 0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:49.600 you've already you know, given these this animal a certain 0:52:49.640 --> 0:52:54.120 personality or certain away for for our minds to shape 0:52:54.160 --> 0:52:57.840 them as as the in their being. And then you 0:52:57.960 --> 0:52:59.560 got a guy like yourself is talking about him at 0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:02.960 like a crop. Right. Um, this is very pragmatic way 0:53:02.960 --> 0:53:04.640 to look at It's very common sense way to look 0:53:04.680 --> 0:53:07.719 at it. I care about these animals, care about all animals, 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:13.479 and if I can kill some harvest them, take the meat, 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:17.319 give somebody an experience, and also is built in our 0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:22.640 model of conservation. Two. Hunting as a tool, right, and 0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:25.600 it brings value to every animal and brings money to 0:53:25.760 --> 0:53:29.640 conservation efforts. And it's a tool for wildlife biologists to say, Cole, 0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:32.719 you and everybody like you kill this many and here's 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:34.759 the tags, and then it's up to you to set 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:36.880 the market for those tags and say how much they're worth, 0:53:37.200 --> 0:53:39.320 how much the hunters are worth, the experience is worth, 0:53:39.320 --> 0:53:40.759 and the animal at the end of the day is worth. 0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:43.120 I don't know about you. I'd love to hear from 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:44.520 you on this, because I'm sure you run into a 0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:46.360 lot of people that question what you do for a living. 0:53:47.600 --> 0:53:51.480 But to me, that's pretty great way to have a 0:53:51.560 --> 0:53:55.239 human interaction with bears, rather than let it go unchecked 0:53:55.520 --> 0:53:57.600 and let our interaction with them just kind of be 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:02.759 you know, last it's less substantial, it's less true. Yeah. 0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:08.520 And you know if you when you when you when 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:11.680 you book a hunt with me, you are coming on 0:54:11.719 --> 0:54:14.880 an amazing bear viewing trip. I mean we get to 0:54:14.960 --> 0:54:18.640 see and this goes with any outfitter. I'm just saying 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:21.400 in general, when you book a brown bear hunt or whatnot. 0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:24.440 You were on the most awesome bear viewing trip that 0:54:24.520 --> 0:54:26.600 you could ever get it to go do. So you 0:54:26.640 --> 0:54:28.359 get to watch all these animals and if you want, 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:31.719 if you want to offend me on a hunt, act 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:33.759 like you don't care about the bears and you you 0:54:33.760 --> 0:54:35.360 don't care and you don't want to look at the bears. 0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:37.719 Because when I'm putting in the spotting scope on a 0:54:37.760 --> 0:54:39.520 soal and cup, look at the sow and cubs, and 0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:42.360 I've had some guys not care and not want to 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:44.600 look at him and not you know, hey, no, just 0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:46.280 let me know when you see the big one. Okay, 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:50.560 that offends me. I mean, I you want to upset me, 0:54:51.120 --> 0:54:53.520 That's what upsets me. Sure, I'm not gonna yell at someone, 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.480 but it's just inside like, wow, what a prick? You know. 0:54:56.680 --> 0:55:01.279 I I love explaining things of people. It's my passion. Um. 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:05.560 Bears are such an amazing animal. Absolutely love watching them. 0:55:05.600 --> 0:55:10.600 They do the most interesting things, funny things, um and 0:55:10.760 --> 0:55:15.120 just harsh things. I mean, it's mind blowing to me 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:19.080 about how they can just run over and tackle a 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:23.040 cub and just rip it apart. Oh yeah, how much 0:55:23.080 --> 0:55:25.600 how often do you see that I have only seen. 0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:31.239 I have probably three or four times. There was one 0:55:31.320 --> 0:55:37.000 time that totally amazed me. Um that we had a boar. 0:55:37.600 --> 0:55:40.160 We spooked a boar. We were trying to make a 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:42.040 stock on him. We spooked him and he ran across 0:55:42.080 --> 0:55:45.839 the valley or not. Randy waddled and he went over 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:47.400 and there was a sound a cub up there, and 0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:49.120 he went and he started going up to him, and 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:52.960 it was a first year cub and he made his 0:55:53.000 --> 0:55:55.719 way up towards him, and the sound it was really 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:58.200 steep face and she kept going or she abandoned her 0:55:58.239 --> 0:56:01.480 cub because she knew that, like, okay, I cannot withstand 0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:04.960 this big boar. He's gonna tear me up. She abandoned 0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:09.319 the cub, and the boar went over sniffed it, and 0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:11.719 I thought I was so upset. I mean, I was 0:56:11.800 --> 0:56:14.040 just freaking out in my mind, like, oh, I cannot 0:56:14.040 --> 0:56:16.400 believe that we screwed up this stock. He's gonna go 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:18.680 over there, and he's now we just got this cub eaten. 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:22.960 This sucks. And he went over and sniffed it, sat 0:56:23.000 --> 0:56:26.359 down and just like took a nap right next to it, 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:29.279 and the cub just kind of scrambled away and got 0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:31.520 away from But that's like the only time that I've 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:33.240 ever seen now whether or not that was his cub, 0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:36.880 you know, and he sniffed it knew it was. But um, 0:56:37.040 --> 0:56:39.600 that is the one time I've seen that. But I 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:44.319 have seen three or four times um, cubs getting ripped 0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:49.840 apart or um or or seen like I saw like 0:56:49.880 --> 0:56:51.640 where there was a den and there was a boar 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:53.800 that we actually went over on a stock because I 0:56:53.880 --> 0:56:55.920 could tell he was a boar, that I noticed another 0:56:55.920 --> 0:56:58.920 bear above it in the rocks, and then I noticed, 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:01.080 finally I put it to to together it was blood 0:57:01.120 --> 0:57:03.359 in the snow and he had gotten in there and 0:57:03.520 --> 0:57:05.520 was eating the cubs out of a din. And the 0:57:05.600 --> 0:57:10.480 sow was above looking um, looking at him. Um, And 0:57:10.560 --> 0:57:15.160 so yeah it's it's UM. I'm pretty sure if anyone 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:17.800 I don't care if you're you know, a non hunter 0:57:18.000 --> 0:57:22.600 or whatever, it maybe UM. I'm pretty sure if I 0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:26.280 was standing there with a gun and a non hunter 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:30.200 who totally disagreed with bear hunting and loved animals, I 0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:34.760 saw this happening. I guarantee. After listening to these cubs 0:57:34.840 --> 0:57:38.360 being torn apart, screaming and the mom trying to get 0:57:38.400 --> 0:57:40.439 to the board of shoving her away, biting at her. 0:57:40.720 --> 0:57:43.320 I'm pretty sure you would say take your gun and 0:57:43.360 --> 0:57:47.480 shoot him. He's bad, shoot him, make him stop, as 0:57:47.480 --> 0:57:50.840 you would would in humans. I mean, you would say, 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:55.000 make that person stop. Um. It's unbelievable. I'm pretty sure 0:57:55.080 --> 0:57:57.360 there's not a human that just said, well, I guess 0:57:57.360 --> 0:58:01.120 that's nature, not even as are describing it. Yeah, I 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.120 mean it's We've we've killed a number of boars that 0:58:04.880 --> 0:58:09.080 if you, um, look on my instagram. Um, this spring, 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:12.920 we had a a young lady that came hunting with us. 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:19.360 Heard her her husband, Um, and we saw a set 0:58:19.360 --> 0:58:22.480 of salent cubs going across this hillside and I had 0:58:22.520 --> 0:58:23.760 kind of you know, I washed them, and they were 0:58:23.760 --> 0:58:25.480 going the other way, and they were quite a ways off, 0:58:26.280 --> 0:58:28.040 and then all of a sudden, you know, I looked 0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:30.360 back and UM, my other guide that was with us, 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:33.240 he scrambling running over to look at the spotting scope 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:35.040 where they were because they were going around a corner. 0:58:35.080 --> 0:58:36.959 So we had to run out another hundred yards around 0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:39.400 the valley to look back up this other side valley. 0:58:39.720 --> 0:58:41.680 And I'm like, oh, maybe he didn't see those salad 0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:44.120 cubs and he just saw the big sal and so 0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:47.000 he he it's the wrong bear or whatever. Well, those 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:49.520 Salent cubs went through a ditch and there was a 0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:52.720 board lane in that ditch betted and the board jumped 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:56.200 up and the sound cubs started running and he was 0:58:56.280 --> 0:58:58.280 going after him. He was his big fat bear and 0:58:58.320 --> 0:58:59.920 so he couldn't go very fast, but he was on 0:59:00.080 --> 0:59:03.000 or trail and that's what my guide saw. And so 0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:04.960 he hollers at me, and so we're looking at him 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:06.880 and I was like, wow, man, he's man, he's a 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:09.480 long ways off, you know. And I told I told 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:12.880 the um, the our lady that we had with us, Lisa. 0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:16.080 I said, man, it's a long ways, but I'd really 0:59:16.120 --> 0:59:17.640 like to give it a go if you think, you know, 0:59:17.680 --> 0:59:19.240 if you think you're up for it. And I said, man, 0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:22.240 he's gonna go kill those cubs. And she's like, yep, yep. 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:25.000 And here you got a mom right that's hunting and 0:59:25.080 --> 0:59:27.120 she's got, you know, a few kids, and she's like, yeah, 0:59:27.120 --> 0:59:30.000 we can't let him do that. And you know, you know, 0:59:30.080 --> 0:59:32.000 she got around great, but you want to talk about 0:59:32.080 --> 0:59:34.520 light of fire on her someone that that was hiking 0:59:34.520 --> 0:59:39.080 with the purpose to get there before dark. And um, 0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:41.280 we hustled over there and he had him backed up 0:59:41.320 --> 0:59:43.360 to a cliff. And you can see this on my Instagram. 0:59:43.360 --> 0:59:46.600 I have some video of it, um and photos of it. 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:50.000 Uh and so uh, he had him backed up there 0:59:50.160 --> 0:59:52.360 and we made our stock. We got we were making 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:53.920 our way to go to try to get above him, 0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:55.400 and she wanted to try to get him with her bow, 0:59:56.000 --> 0:59:59.360 but we knew that this was more important just to 0:59:59.400 --> 1:00:05.200 get this or killed. And so we as we got closer, UM, 1:00:05.400 --> 1:00:08.640 I said, man, this is gonna be extremely risky for us. 1:00:08.720 --> 1:00:10.800 The only shot we had would have put us about 1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:13.760 ten yards from the salad cubs. And if that is 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:16.960 the apps, if you want to think about the worst 1:00:17.000 --> 1:00:20.000 possible scenario in life, you can get next to a 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:23.680 piste off sal who's getting threatened, getting threatened, and here 1:00:23.720 --> 1:00:26.760 you are another threat to the side. They they're just 1:00:26.840 --> 1:00:31.520 a tornado. And so UM we the that they in 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:34.160 and actually the trail we were going to go on 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:37.200 to get closer to him. Um, they end up bailing 1:00:37.240 --> 1:00:39.400 over the board kept pushing them and they bailed over 1:00:39.480 --> 1:00:42.520 towards us and and I said, I'm I'm I'm sorry. 1:00:42.760 --> 1:00:45.240 There's no bow shot, like they're they're coming right at us, 1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:47.280 like you know, the salad cubs would have to go 1:00:47.400 --> 1:00:52.000 over us basically for for our egos to get a 1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:54.800 bow shot, you know what I mean. And so she glad, 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:56.800 you know, she took up rifle and as soon as 1:00:56.840 --> 1:00:59.480 he came over, I mean, she smoked him. You know. 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:02.000 In the sound cubs were about fifteen yards to our right, 1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:04.480 and I was hollering and yelling at him, trying to 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:06.000 get him, you know, let him know like, hey, I'm 1:01:06.000 --> 1:01:09.200 a human, I'm here, go the other way. And so 1:01:09.240 --> 1:01:11.480 they went the other way and they were fine, you know, 1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:15.600 but um that it just it just gave you this 1:01:15.680 --> 1:01:17.840 different sense, and it made you feel like you did 1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:21.360 something like okay, wow, you can get something you well right. 1:01:21.440 --> 1:01:23.400 And and so you get to watch that that mother 1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:25.360 and her and her kids go off and they're fine. 1:01:25.400 --> 1:01:29.080 But when you think, okay, how many times does that happen? 1:01:29.320 --> 1:01:31.520 Because he won't give up. He's not fast, but he'll 1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.320 never give up, and he just keeps following him throughout 1:01:34.320 --> 1:01:36.680 the night. He'll catch him and he'll catch him. There 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:38.520 will happen. We'll just think about, you know, you go 1:01:38.600 --> 1:01:41.600 back into how we treat bears, Just think about how 1:01:41.640 --> 1:01:44.560 that bears mind works and how our mind works. Our 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:46.960 mind works like, oh my gosh, why would you do that? 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:49.520 Why would you kill an innocent thing? But we have 1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:53.560 the ability that could passion to have that go through 1:01:53.560 --> 1:01:57.320 our minds. That bear that's a killing robot, Like he's 1:01:57.360 --> 1:02:01.440 not thinking, oh, these poor little beings. He's thinking, I 1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.760 gotta eat and I gotta fuck. Yep, that's what he's thinking. Yep. 1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:07.120 And and and for us to take an animal with 1:02:07.160 --> 1:02:10.600 a mindset like that and to turn it into cartoons, 1:02:11.120 --> 1:02:14.919 and to turn it into pajamas, and to turn into 1:02:14.920 --> 1:02:18.520 stuffed animals, and to turn it into winning the Pooh, 1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:21.600 I can't. I've always thought, and it's always it's almost 1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:23.000 like a thing that what a hunter would think, or 1:02:23.040 --> 1:02:26.919 some right wing person might think to think, Um, how 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:29.480 screwed up that is. But if you are listening to 1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:31.479 this and you try to break down your mind, how 1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:34.720 fucked up it is to take an animal with the 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:39.320 mindset that you just described, that is an evil monster 1:02:39.680 --> 1:02:44.720 that you just described, a heartless, fucking killing machine. And 1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:48.720 we take this evil, heartless monster and we attach our 1:02:48.800 --> 1:02:52.520 human emotion to it, and then we make cartoons like 1:02:52.560 --> 1:02:57.120 how fucked up is that? How funked up? And and yeah, 1:02:57.120 --> 1:02:59.560 and you know, you know it's like in the same 1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:04.160 same same breath. Then you watch this great animal out there, 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:07.760 it's about appreciating this and and and you know they're 1:03:07.800 --> 1:03:11.480 the most amazing creatures to watch. But like you say, 1:03:11.520 --> 1:03:15.760 as as humans, we like to we're applying our logic 1:03:15.800 --> 1:03:18.520 to the situation. It's like, it's still a beautiful animal. 1:03:18.560 --> 1:03:22.320 It just is an animal. It is nothing more than 1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:25.439 an animal with animal instincts. And I'm sorry to say 1:03:25.440 --> 1:03:27.240 this and this and this could happen to meat any 1:03:27.360 --> 1:03:30.880 at any time. Um, But I think Timothy Treadwell found 1:03:30.880 --> 1:03:36.400 that out. Yeah. And these were his his his people people. 1:03:37.440 --> 1:03:40.360 You know, these were his compassion. He loved those bears. 1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:44.560 But they don't care. They do not care. Yeah. No, 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:46.280 I think that's goes all the way back to like 1:03:46.320 --> 1:03:48.600 how you how your minded. Just once you see something 1:03:48.640 --> 1:03:52.000 like that, you see something that can be so beautiful 1:03:52.040 --> 1:03:55.720 at one moment, but then has no filter to resist 1:03:55.760 --> 1:03:58.560 the urge to do horrible, to do what it's horrible 1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:01.240 things for it to survive before at the flourish or 1:04:01.560 --> 1:04:04.120 for it, you know, in that case, bring us sound 1:04:04.120 --> 1:04:09.640 the heat and propagate it. It actually is mind blowing 1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:13.120 and scares me to death sometimes thinking about bear viewing 1:04:13.160 --> 1:04:15.840 trips with some of these people that are not hunters, 1:04:16.120 --> 1:04:20.080 and and they've seen a lot of bears, and I 1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:22.040 get it that they watch them all the time, but 1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:24.760 they take people so close to them to get photos. 1:04:25.560 --> 1:04:28.760 They're actually harassing the animals way more than US hunters 1:04:28.800 --> 1:04:31.040 or hunters. US hunters are stealthy. We do not want 1:04:31.080 --> 1:04:33.800 these bears knowing that we are here. We're glassing them 1:04:33.800 --> 1:04:37.680 from afar, and we are choosing a specific target to 1:04:37.840 --> 1:04:41.040 take out. Okay, the one specific. We don't need to 1:04:41.040 --> 1:04:43.280 go over and get pictures. I gotta tell my guys, 1:04:43.280 --> 1:04:45.040 I'm I'm sorry. I don't want to. You know, there's 1:04:45.080 --> 1:04:47.520 no reason to get close to this for a picture. Okay, 1:04:47.640 --> 1:04:50.680 excuse me. Um. Sometimes we call bears in, you know, 1:04:50.920 --> 1:04:53.960 but I only call a bear that we are going 1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:57.800 to shoot because it is extremely dangerous. They come up 1:04:58.120 --> 1:05:00.440 and they is something triggers in them. It could just 1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:04.320 be picking dandelions, eating them or whatever they're doing, you know, 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.040 having a great day, rolling around like a little puppy, 1:05:07.160 --> 1:05:09.320 and all of a sudden, you trigger that predator since 1:05:09.360 --> 1:05:11.600 and they are coming and they are they are running 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:14.400 or or they could be walking. It doesn't matter where. 1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:17.320 They're coming to eat you. Okay, you have made a 1:05:17.400 --> 1:05:20.480 sound that means you are struggling as an animal, like 1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:24.560 a predator's call or another bear call or whatever it is. Um, 1:05:25.240 --> 1:05:28.160 they're coming to kill you. And so they're not coming. 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:30.919 He's like, oh cool, I want what that dying deers doing. 1:05:31.360 --> 1:05:33.600 And so they're coming to over and so I do 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:37.080 not screw around with that. So I take it very seriously. 1:05:37.360 --> 1:05:39.400 I don't, you know, I don't just call them to 1:05:39.400 --> 1:05:41.439 come over to get pictures. And so what I say 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:43.920 it scares me is like with these bear viewing people, 1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:45.960 they just get right up in their grill while they're 1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:47.480 feeding and they're like, oh, it's fine, we can get 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:48.800 up here and get these photos of them, you know, 1:05:48.800 --> 1:05:52.600 And it's like, have you ever seen a bear like 1:05:52.880 --> 1:05:57.120 flip that switch when they do? I mean, what are 1:05:57.120 --> 1:05:59.720 you gonna do? Are you trained to take care of this? Yeah, 1:05:59.720 --> 1:06:01.840 you've got your pepper spray or whatever, but man, it 1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:05.520 is so I I I like to think that I 1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:09.880 am more even though I harvest bears we shoot bears, 1:06:10.920 --> 1:06:13.160 I almost you know, and I can probably piss off 1:06:13.160 --> 1:06:15.240 some of my bear viewing people there and Kodiac, but 1:06:15.280 --> 1:06:19.400 I mean I almost feel that we respect him more. Yeah, 1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:21.400 just watching him from Afar. I don't need to be 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:23.840 a treat them like what they are. You're not. You're 1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:30.600 treating like what exactly that they are dangerous wild killing machines. Yeah, 1:06:30.840 --> 1:06:35.480 um yeah, they're beautiful, dangerous wild corrections spectacular. The thing is, 1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:37.440 I don't want to provoke and and this is and 1:06:37.440 --> 1:06:42.360 and understand what I say this to provoke an animal 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:45.720 and then kill it and have to kill it because 1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:48.919 of what you did, because of you wanted to try 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:50.920 to do you want the first desire to kill it 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:52.919 and know why, like, hey, that's an old mature birth. 1:06:52.960 --> 1:06:55.040 That's a great one to take out. Now I call 1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:56.880 it now, I can pursue it because I know what 1:06:56.920 --> 1:06:59.640 it is. I understand it, and it's it's I've thought 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:02.840 out reasoning. And it's not just some you know, the 1:07:02.920 --> 1:07:04.440 killing of lust where I see a bear and I 1:07:04.480 --> 1:07:06.480 want to run up a challenge and correct stab of 1:07:06.480 --> 1:07:09.880 a knife. But as as as unfortunately Mr Treadwell found 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:13.919 he you know when that bear when those bears are 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:17.080 sorry when that bear killed him and his growth and 1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:19.720 horrible thing, and I you know that. I mean, it's 1:07:19.800 --> 1:07:23.440 very very unfortunate. But that also cost I believe too, 1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:25.960 bears their lives, you know. And some people say, well, 1:07:25.960 --> 1:07:27.880 they deserved it, they killed someone. I realized that, But 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:30.200 there bears, that's what they're bears, that's what they do. 1:07:30.200 --> 1:07:31.680 Do you deserve to get killed and you need a 1:07:31.680 --> 1:07:34.320 steak like you have to you have to live to 1:07:34.440 --> 1:07:36.680 and defend your family. And I'm sorry if I off 1:07:36.680 --> 1:07:38.840 anyone by saying it, but it's just it's one of 1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:42.000 those things where be very careful what you're doing when 1:07:42.000 --> 1:07:44.760 you're out there in the in the woods of and 1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:48.040 how you're treating your camps and whatnot, because the worst 1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:51.760 thing you could do is to just for your own good, 1:07:51.840 --> 1:07:54.080 to get a photo of some animal is to provoke 1:07:54.120 --> 1:07:56.880 it and then have to kill it, meaning like an 1:07:56.960 --> 1:07:59.920 unprovoked or you know that. Now it has to be 1:08:00.360 --> 1:08:02.960 we'll treat them as they are, as you say, treat 1:08:03.000 --> 1:08:04.560 them as they are. If you always treat him as 1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:07.280 a bear, then you'll be all right. If you you 1:08:07.280 --> 1:08:09.240 start treating him as a fuzzy thing to take pictures 1:08:09.280 --> 1:08:12.000 of and hang on your wall. Then you're not gonna 1:08:12.040 --> 1:08:13.960 be all right. You may be all right for your 1:08:14.120 --> 1:08:17.240 entire life or ten lifetimes, but that then it becomes 1:08:17.280 --> 1:08:19.439 up to the bear. Right, then it's up to the bear. 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:21.760 And I think that goes for I don't know how 1:08:21.760 --> 1:08:23.680 many of those videos you've seen of those lions and 1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:26.600 whatnot in Africa that people decided to get out of 1:08:26.640 --> 1:08:29.160 the truck and and and get a little closer video 1:08:29.160 --> 1:08:31.920 of this cat that's lay in his tail, and I 1:08:31.960 --> 1:08:33.880 can't remember it was a lion. I think it was 1:08:33.880 --> 1:08:36.920 a line. There was like a video in India of 1:08:37.000 --> 1:08:39.519 a lady getting out of her car and the line 1:08:39.560 --> 1:08:42.559 just comes and takes her, just like a driving zoo 1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:45.280 or like a driving photo market. The line just comes 1:08:45.400 --> 1:08:48.320 takes her and she's gone. And she actually lived because 1:08:48.760 --> 1:08:50.360 I think her mother got out of the car to 1:08:50.400 --> 1:08:53.800 try to like chase after and grab her. Well, the 1:08:53.880 --> 1:08:56.200 lady that got initially grabbed lived. The lion comes back 1:08:56.200 --> 1:09:02.360 and kills a mother. And but that with that, if 1:09:02.400 --> 1:09:05.120 someone was there with the gun, would have killed that line, 1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:09.639 because if someone's human left, it would have just been 1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:12.120 killing what it was supposed to kill, which right at 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.400 this point, luckily for us, is not humans. Right. Would 1:09:14.439 --> 1:09:16.720 you imagine like that switch right that that line goes through, 1:09:16.800 --> 1:09:18.880 that barrier goes through, and you've seen it. I've never 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:21.800 seen this ship like that before, where it flicks the 1:09:21.880 --> 1:09:25.400 switch and becomes the nature takes over of the animal, 1:09:25.760 --> 1:09:29.200 the predatory. The predator takes over. We don't have like 1:09:29.240 --> 1:09:31.600 we have that switch. You and I both have it, 1:09:32.760 --> 1:09:35.000 but we just never It's so deep down we just 1:09:35.080 --> 1:09:38.080 never use it. I would never even think about having 1:09:38.120 --> 1:09:40.840 to use it. But the only time that like I 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:43.200 could think of as like a human would be if 1:09:43.200 --> 1:09:45.760 you've got in a fight and and you get so 1:09:45.880 --> 1:09:48.360 route up your journal and that you were in you 1:09:48.360 --> 1:09:50.599 were you're in that mode of kill mode. You know 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:53.000 you're in fight mode. Oh, and I've got a goal. 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.080 I've also got a goal to find someone in the 1:09:55.120 --> 1:09:58.880 world that truly has lived the bulk of their life 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:04.280 having to kill to survive. Mm hmm. Then I want 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:07.680 to talk to that person for fucking ten hours and 1:10:07.720 --> 1:10:12.759 find out what's it like to have to kill to survive. 1:10:14.360 --> 1:10:16.679 And then because then we become a lot like that bear, 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:19.120 Then that human becomes an animal just like that bear. 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:22.760 And all the things, all the constructs of our society 1:10:22.800 --> 1:10:25.000 and our minds and the way that we view the 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:30.639 world now through our brains goes away and deep down 1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:34.320 all the stuff that's buried in you comes out. And 1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:36.400 then how do you how do you then look at 1:10:36.400 --> 1:10:38.200 that animal if you have to kill it to survive. 1:10:38.880 --> 1:10:41.200 I'm sure there's a you know, plenty of African tribes 1:10:41.240 --> 1:10:45.760 still still having to do. But that's that's part of 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:47.599 when you know, when you talk about that, I think 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:49.640 about that a lot, like I want to talk to 1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:51.840 somebody because all right, we always talk about meat, and 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:54.320 we talked about eating while meat is this like exalted 1:10:54.439 --> 1:10:56.479 thing that we you and I do, But at the 1:10:56.640 --> 1:10:58.840 end of the day, won't have to do that, right, 1:10:58.880 --> 1:11:01.000 we have a choice. We make the choice to do 1:11:01.040 --> 1:11:03.160 it because it fulfills us, but we don't have to 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:06.280 do it to survive. We're not hungry when we shoot 1:11:06.280 --> 1:11:09.439 a deer. M Yeah, I mean even you know, I 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:12.320 I know several people in Alaska that lives subsistence, true 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:15.640 subsistence lifestyle. You know, Yes, they have a cabin or 1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:18.799 a house or whatnot they've built that they live in um, 1:11:18.840 --> 1:11:24.200 but they need to harvest these blacktailed deer. You know, um, 1:11:24.360 --> 1:11:27.679 if there's family of four or five kids or whatever 1:11:27.720 --> 1:11:30.479 it is, you know they need to harvest you know, 1:11:30.760 --> 1:11:32.639 seven or eight deer or whatever it is to get 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:36.760 through the their winters in I realize all those amazing 1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:40.679 Alaska shows they have out there nowadays, of like, oh man, 1:11:40.960 --> 1:11:47.720 we've got to get this beautiful, beautiful appollarh No, but 1:11:48.400 --> 1:11:50.639 even those folks have a choice, right because they could 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:53.320 get in their car, they could go intown airport, fly 1:11:53.439 --> 1:11:56.679 to town and choose to live there. Yeah, I'm talking 1:11:56.680 --> 1:12:00.679 about some motherfucker that doesn't have a choice. I don't 1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:04.080 know that just literally does not have a choice in 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:07.000 their mind. They cannot think of a time or they 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:09.599 could do what you and I do. I think the 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:14.920 closest that you and I have probably experienced was with 1:12:14.960 --> 1:12:18.040 that was probably and I can't speak for you, but 1:12:18.040 --> 1:12:22.680 but to to look and to those people's eyes and 1:12:22.760 --> 1:12:28.320 to watch the Nepali people, oh yeah, all day long. 1:12:28.439 --> 1:12:32.519 I mean, and you almost feel foolish, You feel like 1:12:32.560 --> 1:12:36.479 an idiot, You feel like I shouldn't say almost, do 1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:38.760 you feel like an idiot? That's that the tangible there's 1:12:38.800 --> 1:12:41.200 tangible ways like you in the film that we put 1:12:41.200 --> 1:12:43.720 out for Yetti, you described it as like, oh, there 1:12:43.720 --> 1:12:46.880 were I'm wearing Italian hiking boots and they're wearing flip 1:12:46.880 --> 1:12:49.760 flops with duct tape. That's a tangible way to look 1:12:49.800 --> 1:12:52.960 at it, Like, that's a pretty good metaphor for the 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:54.800 way they live their life and the way we live ours. 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:57.760 But when you talk to these people, or at least 1:12:57.760 --> 1:13:01.719 try to gather some of their intelligence and the knowledge 1:13:01.720 --> 1:13:07.479 that they have, you realize you are a soft dummy, 1:13:08.040 --> 1:13:11.760 like you're The way that we've constructed our society is 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:14.439 to strip away all the good things that these people 1:13:14.720 --> 1:13:18.000 innately just have and don't know that they have, for example, 1:13:19.400 --> 1:13:23.320 never having seen a chainsaw, you know, for example, looking 1:13:23.360 --> 1:13:26.160 at a tree and being like, well, I need that 1:13:26.200 --> 1:13:28.760 thing to fall over, and I need to cut it 1:13:28.840 --> 1:13:31.479 up so where can be warm. And all I have 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:33.800 is this rusty, old fucking axe. It's gonna take me 1:13:33.920 --> 1:13:36.800 six months to cut that tree down. But that is 1:13:37.080 --> 1:13:39.519 the way my life. That's the only option that I have. 1:13:39.720 --> 1:13:42.200 You remember the guys in the village where we first 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:46.760 camped that first night, Um, I remember when I got 1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:51.200 really sick that morning, Um, I ate something bad or 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:54.880 did something and I had explosive vomiting. I mean, I 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:57.360 don't remember the last time I've ever puked, and it was, 1:13:57.439 --> 1:14:01.599 I mean unbelievable how badly I puked. And but I 1:14:01.640 --> 1:14:05.320 remember sitting in my tent because we didn't go anywhere 1:14:05.320 --> 1:14:07.320 that day because they sent the porters ahead to go 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:11.479 check the pass out to see how we were shooting rifles. Yeah, 1:14:11.800 --> 1:14:14.479 so I was so sick just in there and in 1:14:14.479 --> 1:14:17.479 my tent. But I remember hearing this guy chopping a 1:14:17.520 --> 1:14:20.720 tree and you know, like they fell a tree. It 1:14:20.800 --> 1:14:22.599 was it was it was a good sized tree, big 1:14:22.640 --> 1:14:25.880 old live oak, wasn't Yeah, And so I remember them chopping. 1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:28.160 I could just hear chop chop chopped, you know, across 1:14:28.240 --> 1:14:30.920 this valley, and you know it goes down. But then 1:14:31.000 --> 1:14:33.320 later on we went up to that house and they 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:35.880 were they were they were cutting, they're cutting up all 1:14:35.880 --> 1:14:39.639 this board feet of lumber with hand saws and and 1:14:39.680 --> 1:14:42.439 trying to make like trim or bait or whatever it 1:14:42.520 --> 1:14:45.599 was for their home, like or these door frames or something. 1:14:46.080 --> 1:14:49.559 And and me, I come from a small building background, 1:14:49.640 --> 1:14:52.920 you know, and helping homebuilders out and doing finished work, 1:14:52.920 --> 1:14:55.519 and so it amazed me to go watch these guys. 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:57.760 I got out of the the tent at that men. 1:14:58.040 --> 1:14:59.760 I just need to I want to go over and 1:14:59.760 --> 1:15:01.960 see what's going on over there. Like it amazed me. 1:15:02.320 --> 1:15:04.400 I've always thought, you know, back of my brand, man, 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:06.320 it'd be really cool to go build a log cabin 1:15:06.439 --> 1:15:09.240 like the real way. And so I, you know, went 1:15:09.280 --> 1:15:12.600 over to go watch these guys work and it was unbelievable, 1:15:12.680 --> 1:15:16.240 very humbling. But for us to see that, and that's 1:15:16.240 --> 1:15:18.519 just their life, like that's what they do. We went 1:15:18.520 --> 1:15:21.760 out hunting with our twenty one porters in our uh 1:15:22.920 --> 1:15:26.320 Napoli pizza and our giant tents and stuff, went out 1:15:26.360 --> 1:15:28.000 hunting and came back and they were still shopping on 1:15:28.040 --> 1:15:31.040 that tree when we came back, remember uh, the same tree, 1:15:31.080 --> 1:15:32.960 Like three dudes just up there chopping away. It was 1:15:32.960 --> 1:15:34.760 a guy and his wife, and I think a kid. 1:15:34.840 --> 1:15:37.200 There's a kid there too, like a I mean eight 1:15:37.240 --> 1:15:39.960 or nine year old kid. And it's like, think about 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:43.320 those people like we met them. They did not have 1:15:44.880 --> 1:15:48.600 the ability to think about an easier way to do that. 1:15:49.240 --> 1:15:51.040 They had never seen it. I mean, there were six 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:53.559 days a walk from the nearest road in the middle 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:57.640 of the you know, western himilayas like they didn't. They 1:15:57.640 --> 1:15:59.360 couldn't think. Well, you know I saw on TV a 1:15:59.520 --> 1:16:02.840 chained there's no dishes there, there's no like, no no 1:16:02.960 --> 1:16:07.040 dish TV. You know, I saw a home and garden 1:16:07.080 --> 1:16:10.720 about smartphones. People that were you can make your own change, 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:14.759 They didn't. This was the only thing that they knew. 1:16:15.840 --> 1:16:17.920 And because it was the only thing that they knew, 1:16:19.160 --> 1:16:21.559 it was happy to them and I was. I was 1:16:21.960 --> 1:16:23.720 made a post on Instagram the other day about like 1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:27.040 when I was a kid hunting, Uh, we didn't know 1:16:27.240 --> 1:16:29.280 how to score a deer, so we didn't give a ship. 1:16:29.720 --> 1:16:31.439 And the point is, like we it was it was 1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:33.960 the time of my life that had almost zero perspective 1:16:33.960 --> 1:16:36.639 in regards to hunting. But I didn't need any perspective 1:16:36.680 --> 1:16:40.280 because I was happy shooting a deer, counting the points 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:42.840 and hanging out with my dad. These people are the 1:16:42.920 --> 1:16:45.880 same way. They have zero perspective in our world, but 1:16:45.960 --> 1:16:50.320 they don't need perspective world. Right when I was first 1:16:51.080 --> 1:16:54.800 deer hunting, I also lived at Missouri, moved up to Lisa, 1:16:54.840 --> 1:16:58.160 Missouri for a while, and UM went to actually high 1:16:58.160 --> 1:17:01.400 school Lisa and North Um. But where I first went 1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:04.360 deer hunting with Grandpa Glenn, the guy who got me 1:17:04.400 --> 1:17:07.000 actually into hunting. I know, one of my family really hunted, 1:17:07.040 --> 1:17:11.000 but through some people at church. Uh, they introduced me 1:17:11.040 --> 1:17:15.760 to this guy, um Glenn and um. But regardless, he 1:17:16.000 --> 1:17:18.439 remember when he when he got us got or he 1:17:18.479 --> 1:17:22.599 took me down to his farm my first hunt. And 1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:26.920 I recall be or before the deer season, I said, 1:17:27.160 --> 1:17:29.719 you know, and I had seen on TV all these 1:17:29.800 --> 1:17:34.719 like whatever they do food plots, um, you know, put 1:17:34.720 --> 1:17:38.960 out stuff, you know, and I remember, Um Stephen and 1:17:39.040 --> 1:17:43.599 I were talking, which is Glenn's grandson, real grandson. We said, man, 1:17:43.680 --> 1:17:45.400 maybe we could get some of this or this and 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:46.760 we could put out some of that stuff. And so 1:17:46.800 --> 1:17:50.080 we went to go tell that to Grandpa Glenn, and 1:17:50.120 --> 1:17:52.320 we we kind of like we're presenting what we wanted 1:17:52.320 --> 1:17:55.920 to do on his land. And he's like, boy, and 1:17:56.160 --> 1:17:58.599 god damn, horns are hard to eat. You're gonna learn 1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:01.400 that someday and just walk off and we're both just 1:18:01.520 --> 1:18:06.960 like what And the point is like we didn't care. 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:10.599 We shot those we we we need we got meat. 1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.919 That's what he grew up in a very poor family 1:18:14.439 --> 1:18:18.040 and that's all they cared about was meat, and we'll 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.880 talk about the reverse of the spectrum, right like we 1:18:20.880 --> 1:18:25.800 were talking about adventures ship we create this society makes 1:18:25.840 --> 1:18:28.720 us fucking soft, and then we go out to get 1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:32.360 adventure to sharpen up. And then on the opposite side, 1:18:32.479 --> 1:18:36.800 when society was a little rougher, there was men like 1:18:36.840 --> 1:18:39.960 you're like Grandpa Glenn, who did need to go out 1:18:40.560 --> 1:18:43.200 That Grandpa Glen, it sounds like a sharp dude, like 1:18:43.280 --> 1:18:45.640 he wasn't very dull. He wasn't going to McDonald's and 1:18:45.680 --> 1:18:48.800 picking up like and watching football Sunday. He was a 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:51.640 sharp sounds like he was a sharp guy. And so 1:18:51.840 --> 1:18:55.320 generations passed. People were sharp and eately because they had 1:18:55.320 --> 1:18:57.599 to be to survive. Now we softened the funk out 1:18:57.600 --> 1:19:00.439 of that. Now you and I feel like entering is 1:19:00.479 --> 1:19:03.519 the way to like reverse osmosis. People hired me to 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:07.320 make them feel pretty cool, like Grandpa, like people are 1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:10.000 to be like, well, give me what's it like to 1:19:10.040 --> 1:19:15.040 be self sufficient for seven days? Like this motherfucker's self 1:19:15.040 --> 1:19:18.360 sufficient everywhere? Like the pal was kind of like getting 1:19:18.360 --> 1:19:21.479 in a time machine and then being like, dude, this 1:19:21.560 --> 1:19:25.360 was not long ago. In the eight hundreds. People live 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:28.080 like the folks that we met in Nepal. Yeah, that's 1:19:28.160 --> 1:19:30.920 three humans ago. Three humans ago. This is what it was. Now, 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:34.400 we're so connected to everything. We suck at this. Well. 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:37.479 When I was okay, so reading some of the books 1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:42.040 about Nepal, they talked about, like reading Snow Leopard and whatnot. Um, 1:19:42.080 --> 1:19:44.120 you know, they talked about how they would go through 1:19:44.160 --> 1:19:46.559 the mountains and they would stop in these villages and 1:19:46.600 --> 1:19:49.400 they would they would try to collect porters and as 1:19:49.479 --> 1:19:51.240 they went, some of the porters would drop out and 1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:53.200 they would try to get new ones from other villages. 1:19:53.600 --> 1:19:56.599 Guess what, That's exactly what they were still doing when 1:19:56.640 --> 1:19:58.760 we went. Remember they hiked in from the road with 1:19:58.800 --> 1:20:02.240 their core group, Mom and those guys, and then they 1:20:02.240 --> 1:20:05.560 would stop at some villages and pick up porters, okay, 1:20:05.600 --> 1:20:08.160 and they would just come in. There was no email 1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:10.559 sent it sent ahead of times saying hey, have your 1:20:10.600 --> 1:20:13.519 guys ready tomorrow. Whoever wants to go, they'll get paid. 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:16.639 This not that I know of at least, but like literally, 1:20:16.680 --> 1:20:19.040 they show up, who wants to go? You drop what 1:20:19.080 --> 1:20:21.720 you're doing. It could be the acts and and and 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:24.000 then they would go. And from what I understood, and 1:20:24.000 --> 1:20:28.080 I could be wrong, but um, you got like single 1:20:28.120 --> 1:20:31.479 load pay and then you got double load pay. Remember 1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:34.000 when we were hiking out, that poor guy sitting there. 1:20:35.120 --> 1:20:36.960 I mean, all these guys are like soaking what a 1:20:37.360 --> 1:20:40.360 twenty pounds or something, but like they he had just 1:20:40.560 --> 1:20:45.120 ginormous load. And I and we stopped along the way 1:20:45.200 --> 1:20:48.479 and we were almost up to the helly pad or whatever. 1:20:48.880 --> 1:20:51.439 But I said, hey, we need to help you. Yeah, 1:20:51.800 --> 1:20:54.160 you want some help. And he was like no, no, no, no, 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:57.720 but his back was bad. And but one of the 1:20:57.760 --> 1:21:00.960 other guys said, no, he won't. He can't let you 1:21:01.000 --> 1:21:03.880 do that because if you take something from him, the 1:21:03.880 --> 1:21:06.479 others will see and then he won't collect his full 1:21:06.479 --> 1:21:10.519 pay because he he signed on for double loads and 1:21:10.560 --> 1:21:13.479 so then he would get paid more. And so but 1:21:13.760 --> 1:21:16.920 I mean, just just you know, for I guess what 1:21:16.960 --> 1:21:18.960 you say, folks that don't know what we're talking about. 1:21:19.560 --> 1:21:22.000 If we call and I went to Ne Paul a 1:21:22.080 --> 1:21:24.360 year and a half ago, you're in a couple of 1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:27.320 months ago for a blue sheep hunt in m l As. 1:21:27.439 --> 1:21:30.479 Then filmed it fre Jettie with Renan Osterk and ben 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:35.439 ayres Camp before collected and so that you know this 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:37.360 is the hunt we went on and I don't know 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:39.320 that you and I like when we talk about this hunt. 1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:41.320 You know, hopefully we'll get old together and be able 1:21:41.360 --> 1:21:44.280 to talk about it many years from now, But like, 1:21:44.479 --> 1:21:46.800 I don't know that we'll sit around and like look 1:21:46.800 --> 1:21:48.479 at those blue sheet and be like, look how big 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:51.799 the damn horns are on those sheep. We'll look remember 1:21:51.840 --> 1:21:54.800 that time, I remember my shot. We'll be talking about 1:21:54.840 --> 1:21:57.439 this kind of stuff, right because I do. I truly 1:21:57.479 --> 1:21:59.880 did feel at the time. In fact, I may have 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:03.280 wrote this somewhere that it was like I've always thought, 1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:06.479 like if I got the time machine, where would I 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:11.760 like to go? Like what uh period in human history 1:22:11.800 --> 1:22:14.160 would I like to travel to? And you go over there, 1:22:14.160 --> 1:22:16.800 and it's like getting in a time machine if you 1:22:16.880 --> 1:22:20.320 really examine the humans that you meet, because they do 1:22:20.439 --> 1:22:24.320 not have the capacity to to want as we do. 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:28.000 They don't have the capacity to be vain that we have. 1:22:28.760 --> 1:22:32.439 They don't have the capacity to um, you know, they 1:22:32.479 --> 1:22:35.400 don't have mirrors to look in. They just lived their 1:22:35.439 --> 1:22:39.800 lives day by day and they're they're happy. They work 1:22:39.880 --> 1:22:42.560 hard when they're working, and they celebrate harder when they're celebrating, 1:22:42.960 --> 1:22:47.040 and they have a culture of reverence for everything. Yeah. 1:22:47.120 --> 1:22:50.280 When when um, that day, I think I went over 1:22:50.320 --> 1:22:53.080 into that house where they were cutting up the wood 1:22:53.760 --> 1:22:56.160 to use for the materials in their home. Um, we 1:22:56.280 --> 1:22:59.960 just walked in to this home, um and Sam shear 1:23:00.000 --> 1:23:02.720 and I did, and there was a lady there and 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:04.800 then she had a young little daughter. And I'm not 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:07.040 sure how old she was. She could have been twelve, 1:23:07.240 --> 1:23:10.479 I'm not I'm not really sure. Hard to tell, um, 1:23:10.520 --> 1:23:14.519 But she came over and looked at She had seen 1:23:14.560 --> 1:23:17.400 a camera before, right, but like she just looked at 1:23:17.439 --> 1:23:19.840 it and kind of pointed, and I just I took 1:23:19.880 --> 1:23:22.160 the camp and took a picture of her, and she 1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.400 smiled and then she was like she wanted to see it, 1:23:26.160 --> 1:23:27.800 and so she came over and I showed her the 1:23:27.800 --> 1:23:29.680 back and she was like you know and like just 1:23:29.800 --> 1:23:33.559 like then she started touching her hair and her face 1:23:33.720 --> 1:23:36.200 and she merely went outside and I was like, oh, wow, 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:39.160 that was kind of okay. And she came back in 1:23:39.240 --> 1:23:42.280 and she looked a little different and then she was like, 1:23:42.439 --> 1:23:44.080 um like pointing to her, and I said, oh, you 1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:46.559 want another picture? So I took another picture, and she 1:23:46.560 --> 1:23:48.920 wanted to see it again and she felt I think 1:23:49.080 --> 1:23:51.720 better about herself on the second picture, but like the 1:23:51.920 --> 1:23:56.599 normal girl that wasn't very good. But she wrote her 1:23:56.640 --> 1:23:59.799 whole life cold. But she but there was no mirrors 1:23:59.840 --> 1:24:02.439 in that house, and I just think she's like, oh, 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:04.559 I feel a little rough, like the way she looked herself. 1:24:04.520 --> 1:24:09.840 And we got she she had Marie Claire cosmetics. She 1:24:09.920 --> 1:24:14.400 was she was out of the back of her she 1:24:14.520 --> 1:24:16.240 was a Mary Kay sales. When she was trying to 1:24:16.240 --> 1:24:19.360 pick BMW, it was crazy how quickly she picked it up, 1:24:20.120 --> 1:24:22.920 picked up the way to be a human in our world. 1:24:23.040 --> 1:24:25.120 But yeah, that that kind of stuff. You know. I 1:24:25.120 --> 1:24:28.799 remember being over there and that this is the hamlet 1:24:28.840 --> 1:24:33.759 of dol Yarsa. You know how many thousands of people 1:24:33.760 --> 1:24:37.320 go to to you know, an hour and a half 1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:40.880 west or east of where we were too ever space 1:24:40.920 --> 1:24:43.840 camp thousands of people a year ago there Um and 1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:46.120 to what they told us, well, there was dozens of 1:24:46.160 --> 1:24:50.880 people maybe in a year's time, outsiders or Westerners or 1:24:51.520 --> 1:24:55.160 foreigners for lack of a better term, to visit that village. 1:24:55.280 --> 1:24:57.559 You know, that village was We took what a forty 1:24:57.560 --> 1:25:01.759 five minute an hour long helicopter ride, yeah, west of Katman. 1:25:01.840 --> 1:25:06.280 Do Um made one stop for fuel. I can't remember 1:25:06.280 --> 1:25:08.360 the town we stopped in for fuel. It said poker, 1:25:08.400 --> 1:25:10.400 and it wasn't poker. That wasn't poker. It might have 1:25:10.400 --> 1:25:13.640 been well not din't matter. But we're somewhere deep in 1:25:13.680 --> 1:25:20.439 the heart him lays uh and these people that it 1:25:20.560 --> 1:25:23.519 was astonishing. And then I remember thinking, like even reading 1:25:23.560 --> 1:25:26.680 Snow Leopard and not really picking up a lot of it, 1:25:27.160 --> 1:25:32.880 and and being really worried about not learning enough about 1:25:33.000 --> 1:25:36.679 the culture, like not coming back like a stupid American 1:25:36.760 --> 1:25:39.439 being like, oh, that was fun. But they're like, well, 1:25:39.479 --> 1:25:41.560 how is it over there? I'm like, well, it's dirty, 1:25:41.640 --> 1:25:44.240 but you can't really explain the culture because you know, 1:25:44.720 --> 1:25:48.920 Hinduism and Buddhism and those cast systems are complicated. Um. 1:25:48.960 --> 1:25:50.920 But then I got back, I feel like, you met 1:25:50.920 --> 1:25:54.160 those people, you learned about who they were. That's enough 1:25:54.439 --> 1:25:56.680 to get the perspective that you needed. You know. Yeah, 1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:00.000 it felt great too there. They are very loving people. 1:26:00.400 --> 1:26:04.160 I've been some other places in the world where they 1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:08.400 that feeling is just not quite there and you don't 1:26:08.400 --> 1:26:11.040 get to quite do the things that we just went 1:26:11.120 --> 1:26:13.519 and did, like walking into people's homes and whatnot. I've 1:26:13.520 --> 1:26:16.759 been in some places where I did not feel that welcome. 1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:20.840 And these people, they are such a loving people. Um, 1:26:21.200 --> 1:26:24.040 I mean, I couldn't believe how welcoming they were born 1:26:24.120 --> 1:26:27.120 from how much hardship. Think about the civil war that 1:26:27.160 --> 1:26:30.240 went on there, maybe a decade before we arrived, the 1:26:30.400 --> 1:26:35.639 catastrophic earthquake that happened three years I believe before we arrived. 1:26:36.080 --> 1:26:41.280 Less um people in the and dula Arsa telling us 1:26:41.280 --> 1:26:45.120 stories about the the I believe it was the police 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:47.760 force coming in. Yeah, yeah, I can't here if they 1:26:47.760 --> 1:26:50.960 thought they were rebels or something of that nature. That 1:26:50.960 --> 1:26:53.920 that area was kind of the belly of the rebellion, 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:57.799 the communist rebellion against the against the government, the dictator 1:26:58.040 --> 1:27:03.120 and the royal family playing those cast systems and that Um, 1:27:03.160 --> 1:27:06.680 I think it's Sawa was the one lady's hut that 1:27:06.720 --> 1:27:08.439 we went and sapping around the fire, and I think 1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:11.280 she was explaining that they all the men that were 1:27:11.720 --> 1:27:14.400 in that room were thought to be rebels and then 1:27:15.120 --> 1:27:17.240 we'll probably screwing this all up. But yeah, but police 1:27:17.320 --> 1:27:20.559 force came in and just shot them all. Yeah, as 1:27:20.600 --> 1:27:23.080 they got into an argument and they said, you guys 1:27:23.080 --> 1:27:26.160 are a part of and basically they weren't. They were 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:29.320 just sitting there and enjoying their evening and these people 1:27:29.360 --> 1:27:31.840 with guns come in and shoot them all and drag 1:27:31.880 --> 1:27:34.160 them out and throw them into the water ditch where 1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:35.920 we were. You know, we're all sitting right there and 1:27:35.960 --> 1:27:38.040 seeing everything. And it's kind of like, oh, that sounds 1:27:38.040 --> 1:27:40.560 like a story they would have done hundreds of years ago. No, 1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:44.200 that happened two thousand and two, whatever it would have happened. Yeah, 1:27:44.400 --> 1:27:46.760 And then you know, Man Bahadur are a good main 1:27:46.840 --> 1:27:50.800 guide telling stories about during that same time period, being 1:27:50.840 --> 1:27:54.640 conscribed by Um. I believe it was by the rebels 1:27:55.600 --> 1:28:00.240 to be essentially be a poacher to feed the army. 1:28:00.360 --> 1:28:02.599 Um and all the things he had to go through. 1:28:02.680 --> 1:28:04.479 So yeah, I mean if you don't go, if you 1:28:04.640 --> 1:28:09.040 if you are incredulous enough to go through that experience 1:28:10.040 --> 1:28:11.600 and when somebody says how it wasn't, you'd be like 1:28:11.640 --> 1:28:16.559 killed a big sheep. Yeah, you are beyond repair. Yeah, 1:28:16.640 --> 1:28:19.320 you know, and people always like, oh, you're gonna what 1:28:19.320 --> 1:28:21.600 do you do? You just mount it and stuff like that. 1:28:21.720 --> 1:28:25.479 It's like, well, yes, of course I mount this beautiful animal. 1:28:26.080 --> 1:28:29.639 But like when when I want to me, yeah, sure, 1:28:29.680 --> 1:28:32.000 you can just do pictures or whatever. But to me, 1:28:32.479 --> 1:28:34.880 I like it when people come over to my home 1:28:35.000 --> 1:28:38.719 or wherever and I can show them, you know, this animal, 1:28:38.840 --> 1:28:41.240 this blue sheep. You know, a child could come over 1:28:41.320 --> 1:28:43.560 and see it and maybe put their hands on the 1:28:43.640 --> 1:28:46.000 hide and whatnot. But it's it's one of those things 1:28:46.000 --> 1:28:47.600 like to me, when I look at that and I 1:28:47.600 --> 1:28:49.439 don't care how big it is right on my amounts 1:28:49.520 --> 1:28:51.200 or whatever. It's just one of those things when you 1:28:51.200 --> 1:28:54.280 look at them and you but you remember. It's like 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:57.160 a memory, you know. And that's what, like you said earlier, 1:28:57.240 --> 1:28:58.960 it doesn't really matter how big the horns are. Oh 1:28:59.000 --> 1:29:01.120 what did it measure? I don't, Oh, I have I've 1:29:01.120 --> 1:29:04.679 been asked by some people your sheet like, I have 1:29:04.760 --> 1:29:08.080 no idea. It was just a it was an old 1:29:08.479 --> 1:29:11.839 broke up ram that I have. Oh, I was so 1:29:11.960 --> 1:29:15.240 pumped to see that sheep. And I mean that was 1:29:15.479 --> 1:29:19.439 my dream, was to take an old ram that you 1:29:19.479 --> 1:29:22.479 know that probably won't live through the winter, you know, 1:29:22.960 --> 1:29:25.720 um or or very many more by any means, And 1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:30.040 so that was like amazing. I have no clue how 1:29:30.640 --> 1:29:33.000 those horns majored. We never did put a tape on him. 1:29:33.120 --> 1:29:35.200 It doesn't matter. I don't even think we ever thought 1:29:35.240 --> 1:29:36.960 about that. I know people ask me that too, like 1:29:37.000 --> 1:29:40.680 how big a sheep? And I'm like, listen, I have 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:43.760 no idea. I can tell you that I think gets 1:29:43.760 --> 1:29:47.800 sad that, um, what you said about taxingmy is sad 1:29:47.840 --> 1:29:50.600 to me because you know, you and I went to 1:29:50.680 --> 1:29:54.240 Kodiak killed two two big old blacktailed deer. You guided 1:29:54.280 --> 1:29:57.200 me and I shot him, and there's so much more 1:29:57.240 --> 1:30:00.160 to that story than just that, but I had him. 1:30:00.200 --> 1:30:03.880 You know, Chris Komack, our mutual body made a great 1:30:04.120 --> 1:30:07.800 double pedalst amount for me, like beautiful, pendous gift of 1:30:08.320 --> 1:30:11.120 you know, for those animals to be like that, to 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:14.360 be presented that way. And I had my sister in 1:30:14.400 --> 1:30:17.000 law came in my house and she was like, looking 1:30:17.040 --> 1:30:19.679 at it, really weird. She's like, oh, yeah, this must 1:30:19.720 --> 1:30:21.879 be really big ones. How you must feel really nice 1:30:22.240 --> 1:30:24.479 to show off how big your animals are. You killed 1:30:24.520 --> 1:30:28.880 like immediately going into the CNN, you know, the CNN, 1:30:29.200 --> 1:30:33.519 MSNBC bullshit media description of what tax to me is 1:30:33.680 --> 1:30:35.559 and I just immediate was like, and I just said 1:30:35.560 --> 1:30:39.599 to her, it's sad that you presume that's why that's there. 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:42.719 It's sad to me that you your presumption in seeing 1:30:42.720 --> 1:30:46.800 that animal mounted in that way is that I want 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:50.800 you to see how big it is. I'm sad for you. 1:30:51.880 --> 1:30:53.720 I would would love for you to ask me like 1:30:54.439 --> 1:30:57.400 where did that animal live? Tell me about the natural 1:30:57.479 --> 1:31:01.479 history of Kodiak blacktail deer, and tell me the story 1:31:01.520 --> 1:31:04.840 of how it came to be there. Yeah, it's it's 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:07.160 okay as a non hunter or source ione to be 1:31:07.240 --> 1:31:10.360 curious um and asking questions. That's okay, you know, you 1:31:10.360 --> 1:31:13.240 can you can ask someone what why did you mount that? 1:31:13.680 --> 1:31:16.240 You know? But I think as as hunters, you know, 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:17.960 and that kind of goes. You know, we could go 1:31:18.000 --> 1:31:21.160 off on all sorts of you know, rabbit trails on that. 1:31:21.200 --> 1:31:26.360 But be prepared as a person, be prepared to tell 1:31:26.439 --> 1:31:28.960 people and to educate people. Why do you do it? 1:31:29.040 --> 1:31:34.920 Don't be that redneck. Well that's two big ones to me, 1:31:34.960 --> 1:31:37.760 like especially like those deer and stuff like I mean 1:31:38.960 --> 1:31:42.760 that trip, what what an amazing memory and an amazing 1:31:43.600 --> 1:31:49.120 um uh respect to that animal to use that animal? 1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:50.840 Oh my god. Yeah. And I told her, I said, 1:31:50.840 --> 1:31:53.759 I have long since eating those those deer and I 1:31:53.840 --> 1:32:00.240 and I U yeah, yeah, and I try and I 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:03.720 traveled with those deer their hides and their heads and 1:32:03.760 --> 1:32:08.560 their flesh from Alaska back here, and then we ate 1:32:08.640 --> 1:32:13.960 them right here, like then there they are. That's not them, 1:32:14.040 --> 1:32:17.760 but that's you know, that's a fasimile of what they 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:21.200 were like. And as much as I love European mounts 1:32:21.200 --> 1:32:23.479 and as much like we were talking about this, and 1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:25.720 like the head of a white tail deer and a 1:32:25.720 --> 1:32:31.920 black tail deer and a cus deer looks just about 1:32:31.920 --> 1:32:35.160 the same, and like you're not. If I held up 1:32:35.200 --> 1:32:37.840 accused deer skull and a black tailed deer scull, you could, 1:32:37.920 --> 1:32:40.040 if you're a hunter and you know the animals, you 1:32:40.080 --> 1:32:43.840 could probably say that pick them out. But what a 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:46.320 difference to see a whitetail mount and a blacktail codiac 1:32:46.360 --> 1:32:50.559 blacktail mount. It's like different different colors and different colors. 1:32:50.560 --> 1:32:52.880 And just so I was and I'm thinking, I want 1:32:52.880 --> 1:32:56.360 to see this animal the way it was. It's important 1:32:56.400 --> 1:32:59.519 to me to see that. And so yeah, that part sucks. 1:32:59.640 --> 1:33:02.840 I hate when people do that, but I also know 1:33:02.880 --> 1:33:04.920 why they do, because hunters have we've had a very 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:07.519 bad like you said, it's did a fucking real bad 1:33:07.640 --> 1:33:13.200 job of making taxidermy. About what we're talking about you know, right, 1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:15.439 and it's artwork. You know, if you talk to Chris, like, 1:33:15.520 --> 1:33:18.080 this is art that he is trying to bring back 1:33:18.120 --> 1:33:23.480 and recreate life here. It should be when someone walks in, wow, 1:33:23.880 --> 1:33:27.479 that is a beautiful animal. Wow. And they may not 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:30.439 know what type of animal it is, but to walk 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:33.080 in somewhere and see a life size whatever it may be, 1:33:34.080 --> 1:33:36.320 you know, I mean it should it should not be 1:33:36.360 --> 1:33:38.880 a scary looking thing, you know. And so if it's 1:33:38.880 --> 1:33:41.360 good tax for me, it should be done beautifully. And 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:43.719 it's great to be able to like take kids and 1:33:43.720 --> 1:33:46.000 and show them like, oh, this is ah, this is 1:33:46.040 --> 1:33:47.720 how big this is. This is how big that is. 1:33:47.760 --> 1:33:50.120 This is what this is? And why do they have that? Well, 1:33:50.240 --> 1:33:54.160 they have horns because of this reason, so to educate people. Um, 1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:56.519 but you know, it is what it is. But um, 1:33:56.960 --> 1:33:59.160 people are gonna hate. And you know, and we've done 1:33:59.160 --> 1:34:02.160 a bad Like homes, right, tax to me, in homes 1:34:02.479 --> 1:34:05.880 is normally gathered into a one room, right, we call 1:34:05.920 --> 1:34:09.519 it a trophy room. And I think that's part. You know, 1:34:09.560 --> 1:34:11.320 those things are just part of the probably you gather 1:34:11.439 --> 1:34:15.240 them all together like a collection rather than presenting him 1:34:15.280 --> 1:34:17.320 in your home is like a tapestry of your life, 1:34:17.880 --> 1:34:19.840 you know, which is what I want to try to do. 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:22.400 I just I'm building a new home right now, and 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:25.320 I think about, like how do I present my hunting 1:34:25.360 --> 1:34:27.640 life in this home as opposed to just like how 1:34:27.680 --> 1:34:29.559 do I stack them all up in a in a 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:32.639 barn or something so people can see all of it together. 1:34:32.680 --> 1:34:34.240 I like it because like you walk from my room 1:34:34.240 --> 1:34:36.439 and you see that, Yes, hunting is happening in my life, 1:34:36.800 --> 1:34:39.400 but it's not. These animals aren't there as a collection 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:42.160 of all the things I've done. It's it's my experiences, 1:34:42.400 --> 1:34:47.320 you know, personified and weird in a weird sense. So 1:34:47.520 --> 1:34:50.400 I I wonder and I you know, stuff that Chris 1:34:50.479 --> 1:34:52.960 connect does, like that ship will last forever, like those 1:34:52.960 --> 1:34:55.759 deer will last as long as I'm alive, and probably 1:34:55.760 --> 1:34:59.840 to my children, yeah, they're they're just you know, it's 1:35:00.000 --> 1:35:02.680 it's a great memory. Like I said, that's the way 1:35:02.680 --> 1:35:05.080 I look at it. I love. I love looking at 1:35:05.080 --> 1:35:07.080 something like that and looking at the beauty of it 1:35:07.160 --> 1:35:10.000 and just remembering that animal you know, and and knew 1:35:10.080 --> 1:35:12.400 that and and and know that we did the most 1:35:12.600 --> 1:35:16.720 respectful thing that we could after taking its life. Well, 1:35:16.760 --> 1:35:20.559 and then then those two deer's case. We we hunted 1:35:20.600 --> 1:35:23.760 those deer, you know, not a very it wasn't very spectacular, 1:35:23.880 --> 1:35:25.639 just like we could tell the story to hunt it. 1:35:25.640 --> 1:35:27.360 It was mostly just like Nepul would be the story 1:35:27.400 --> 1:35:30.040 of how cold it was and how windy it was. Um, 1:35:30.120 --> 1:35:34.320 that story the story of hunting him. Um, it was 1:35:34.400 --> 1:35:36.800 very much like you knew where the big deer hung out, 1:35:36.880 --> 1:35:38.559 or at least where somebody hung out. We went up, 1:35:38.600 --> 1:35:40.840 we found him, got lucky enough to get them both 1:35:41.360 --> 1:35:46.040 and a pretty um for that country, pretty easy scenarios 1:35:46.920 --> 1:35:50.560 with with a rifle. But then after that we ate 1:35:50.640 --> 1:35:55.280 him in camp for our survival and a sixty mile 1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:58.559 in our eight mile on our wind guests in December 1:35:58.560 --> 1:36:02.120 and Kodiak. We packed them into a raft, rafted down 1:36:02.120 --> 1:36:07.559 the river. That river froze. Then we pulled their fucking 1:36:07.720 --> 1:36:12.000 frozen heavy flesh heads out of the out of our rafts, 1:36:12.800 --> 1:36:14.840 build our camp back up, and then the next day 1:36:15.680 --> 1:36:20.759 hiked the frozen meat and heads six six deer, six 1:36:21.000 --> 1:36:25.519 full deer. Four or five of us hiked these things out. 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:27.960 Was at a couple of miles we went I think 1:36:28.000 --> 1:36:30.000 it was four miles, four miles. I keep saying to 1:36:30.479 --> 1:36:38.400 I'll take four all four miles to our pickup point. 1:36:40.400 --> 1:36:43.479 Like that's my experience with that meat. And then it 1:36:43.640 --> 1:36:48.200 went into I went to a plane that went in 1:36:48.240 --> 1:36:49.760 the head too. Then it went to a plane, then 1:36:49.760 --> 1:36:51.960 it went to Kodiak, then it went in a cooler 1:36:52.200 --> 1:36:54.680 than it went with me to my home and went 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:58.400 in my freezer. It's feeding your family, you know, it's 1:36:58.439 --> 1:37:03.000 it's the whole experience. Yeah, it's like Ben doesn't center 1:37:03.080 --> 1:37:06.559 and go man every like whenever we've told these stories, 1:37:06.600 --> 1:37:10.200 it's not like you're not telling people. You see how 1:37:10.240 --> 1:37:13.640 big these bucks whatever they were, giants bucks. But it 1:37:13.680 --> 1:37:19.800 was our adventure. What it was, uh you know, like 1:37:19.880 --> 1:37:22.320 we talked to you know, it was an unbelievable adventure 1:37:22.680 --> 1:37:27.280 and it it truly uh well, when you have those hardships, 1:37:27.280 --> 1:37:29.519 like going back to what we talked about earlier on, 1:37:29.520 --> 1:37:31.920 when you have those hardships, that makes you appreciate things 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:36.040 and and and once you once we find because it 1:37:36.120 --> 1:37:38.280 end up taking as we did three trips to get 1:37:39.000 --> 1:37:41.640 you know, um, all this dear meat that we had 1:37:41.680 --> 1:37:44.679 corded up in our packs and and in our personal 1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:48.400 camp gear and everything you know out um to get 1:37:48.400 --> 1:37:52.080 picked up Um by plane, and so I mean all 1:37:52.160 --> 1:37:56.880 this hardship, Um, it all comes down. You know when 1:37:57.720 --> 1:38:00.320 every morsel that meat, when you're eating it, I mean, 1:38:00.400 --> 1:38:02.960 your your family is appreciative. But it's like as us 1:38:02.960 --> 1:38:05.559 as the hunter who pulled the trigger or hiked it out. 1:38:05.720 --> 1:38:07.120 I don't care. You don't have to pull the trigger. 1:38:07.160 --> 1:38:09.160 But when you help someone a part of that hunt 1:38:09.400 --> 1:38:12.479 and you're sitting there cutting your meat and and put 1:38:12.479 --> 1:38:15.960 it in your mouth, it's just like, wow, I remember this, 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:19.080 I remember what we did. It's like putting life back 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:22.920 in your fucking body. Yeah, it's it's like, hey, man, 1:38:23.439 --> 1:38:24.800 I told my wife all the time. We got in 1:38:24.840 --> 1:38:27.080 a little bit of a spat recently. And I've said 1:38:27.080 --> 1:38:30.720 this little podcast before, but like I've I've I've continually 1:38:30.760 --> 1:38:33.719 just said, like, hey, look, if you overcook a piece 1:38:33.720 --> 1:38:37.840 of meat, who am I I'm terrible I cook. I'm 1:38:37.840 --> 1:38:43.080 no uh no fancy cook. But like, let's have an 1:38:43.120 --> 1:38:46.040 idea of let's have an idea of like why I 1:38:46.160 --> 1:38:51.760 might get upset if the the last piece of Kodiak 1:38:51.960 --> 1:38:58.160 blacktail backstrap gets overcooked and left on the counter. Just 1:38:58.320 --> 1:39:01.400 if I'm upset, I'm not upset you for your cooking skills. 1:39:01.800 --> 1:39:06.439 I'm upset for the opportunity to consume more of that 1:39:06.479 --> 1:39:08.720 and will enjoy that in a way that I want to. 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:10.840 So her and I keep coming back and forth. She 1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:13.080 keeps bringing it back to you're a dick. You keep 1:39:13.360 --> 1:39:15.880 making fun of my cooking. I'm like, no, no, I don't. 1:39:16.040 --> 1:39:18.200 It's not about that for me. I don't I appreciate 1:39:18.240 --> 1:39:20.320 that you cooked it. I just want you to understand that, like, 1:39:20.600 --> 1:39:23.519 it's important to me that we really, I have reverence 1:39:23.560 --> 1:39:25.400 for this piece of meat, that we don't just stew 1:39:25.439 --> 1:39:27.479 it up or we don't just like we think about it. 1:39:27.560 --> 1:39:30.160 We and and we celebrate it and and we don't 1:39:30.200 --> 1:39:32.800 just you know, throw it in a taco and you know, 1:39:32.840 --> 1:39:35.080 And so her and I maybe will never get on 1:39:35.360 --> 1:39:38.120 we probably will never get on the right wavelength with that, 1:39:38.400 --> 1:39:40.920 but we continue to go back to it because I'm like, 1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:45.440 I'm never going to not be upset if if um, 1:39:45.680 --> 1:39:49.479 the last tender loin is is cooked a hundred eighty degrees, 1:39:49.600 --> 1:39:52.880 not that she does that all the time. Sorry, you're 1:39:52.960 --> 1:39:57.320 wonderful here. I made some burn ins. Yeah, it says 1:39:57.400 --> 1:40:00.600 tender loin on the package, and so we yeah, we 1:40:00.640 --> 1:40:04.160 are always always going back and forth about that because 1:40:04.200 --> 1:40:06.360 I'm like, you gotta reverse herit and then get in 1:40:06.400 --> 1:40:08.240 the trigger. She's like, I'll just throw in the oven. 1:40:08.280 --> 1:40:12.479 It's fine. It tastes delicious, so it's always but yeah, 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:14.559 that just goes back to me. I'm like, I can't 1:40:14.600 --> 1:40:17.160 go back and get this right. One of the things 1:40:17.160 --> 1:40:20.040 that I've always wanted to do um in my dining room, 1:40:20.280 --> 1:40:22.080 I always show to be cool. I just bought a 1:40:22.120 --> 1:40:24.920 house and I you know, started trying to put stuff together. 1:40:24.920 --> 1:40:27.160 But I always saw this little thought in my brain 1:40:27.479 --> 1:40:30.479 because I do appreciate so much of where my meat 1:40:30.520 --> 1:40:33.759 comes from. I want to have like a little TV 1:40:33.880 --> 1:40:37.639 screen or one of those like photo album things right 1:40:37.680 --> 1:40:40.439 there at the end table, like when you have like 1:40:40.479 --> 1:40:44.439 a group of people and have like photos of the 1:40:44.520 --> 1:40:47.479 hunt and of the animal going in the background, and 1:40:47.520 --> 1:40:49.400 maybe some people that like freaks out, but I'm talking 1:40:49.400 --> 1:40:52.400 to me personally, I feel like, what a way to 1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:56.439 remember how I got this or how my hunter got 1:40:56.479 --> 1:40:59.920 this animal and to just remember it's like in remembrance, 1:41:00.439 --> 1:41:02.599 you know what I mean, Like when you're in church 1:41:02.600 --> 1:41:05.120 and you and you go take the communion and you know, 1:41:05.200 --> 1:41:07.960 and you're praying and you're you're remembering, you know, And 1:41:08.000 --> 1:41:11.360 so for me, I always thought, man, that'd be really 1:41:11.400 --> 1:41:13.920 cool to have like just a little screen there, and 1:41:13.960 --> 1:41:16.400 maybe some people wouldn't even know what it was, because 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:18.040 you don't want some people like because you know how 1:41:18.040 --> 1:41:20.519 that would go with some some people that aren't like, Okay, 1:41:23.400 --> 1:41:27.840 slide slide, sit down. I know you're hungry. You sit 1:41:27.880 --> 1:41:32.280 there and you watch every slide about this animal that 1:41:32.360 --> 1:41:35.400 I've killed. That's right. But no, for me though, I 1:41:35.479 --> 1:41:38.320 just think like it's just me by myself. I just 1:41:38.320 --> 1:41:40.559 think like it's like to pull the photo of that 1:41:40.600 --> 1:41:42.960 animal or a couple of pictures of the trip to me, 1:41:43.600 --> 1:41:46.240 that like makes me, I don't know, makes it more 1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:49.080 happy and makes me think about the respect part of it. 1:41:49.280 --> 1:41:51.559 You know, that would be for everyone. Your wife may 1:41:51.600 --> 1:41:55.360 not like that. What's that? That's what's in your mouth? Yeah, 1:41:55.439 --> 1:42:00.400 there's the gut pile. I mean there's been that's been. 1:42:00.479 --> 1:42:04.080 He pooed his pants before that. That was a picture. 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:11.680 We're into, Paul, how many times total did you and 1:42:11.720 --> 1:42:15.479 I have too our pants? And like, let's get into 1:42:15.560 --> 1:42:18.320 let's I'm happy to get into what like what shooting 1:42:18.320 --> 1:42:21.640 your pants really like the definition of it, because we 1:42:21.720 --> 1:42:25.479 have the thing we called the shart right and which 1:42:25.560 --> 1:42:32.680 is just I mean, there's hundreds of those, you know. 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:37.040 The problem. Yeah, sometimes I guess from what I've heard 1:42:37.479 --> 1:42:41.320 when um, when you go to places like that, Um, 1:42:41.360 --> 1:42:44.080 it's the types of food you eat, and maybe the 1:42:44.200 --> 1:42:50.400 richness of it. Um. Chris Kamack, the tax dermist is 1:42:50.400 --> 1:42:54.320 out there. It's looking in Chris. We're telling a really 1:42:54.320 --> 1:43:02.120 important story here. So anyways, Um, apparently the diet that 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:05.120 you're fed sometimes and I think even Ranan and those 1:43:05.120 --> 1:43:07.160 guys said, yeah, typically when you come over here wants 1:43:07.160 --> 1:43:10.120 a trip, you know, you'll get you know, some stomach 1:43:10.160 --> 1:43:14.040 issue and everything's dirty. Uh, every like the water and 1:43:14.320 --> 1:43:16.120 you can't drink the water. The fruit is hard to 1:43:16.120 --> 1:43:19.960 eat because it's washed in the water. Uh yeah, I mean, 1:43:20.000 --> 1:43:21.479 and it's not like they I mean, the outfitter does 1:43:21.479 --> 1:43:23.280 a great job and good food and all that kind 1:43:23.280 --> 1:43:25.160 of stuff. It's not it's not really the point. It's like, 1:43:25.680 --> 1:43:29.000 it's just everything is done a little differently. And apparently 1:43:29.120 --> 1:43:34.120 it's fairly common to um get sick. And so it 1:43:34.280 --> 1:43:38.240 hit me first and I was explosive vomiting, you know, 1:43:38.400 --> 1:43:41.679 and so um it then, But it kind of passed 1:43:41.680 --> 1:43:44.840 through me fairly quick that one day, and then after 1:43:44.880 --> 1:43:48.040 that I was pretty good when I was doing the 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:52.840 acclamation hikes and right, I'll be off. That's right. It's 1:43:52.880 --> 1:43:56.240 so when when I um, I remember just sitting in 1:43:56.280 --> 1:43:57.920 my tent and like the one time I would get out, 1:43:57.920 --> 1:43:59.320 I have to go to bathroom, And I mean, yeah, 1:43:59.360 --> 1:44:01.880 you'd be sitting there, think it's just a little gas 1:44:01.960 --> 1:44:04.160 and and you know how that goes, and all of 1:44:04.200 --> 1:44:06.640 a sudden, whoa, and you have to bail out of 1:44:06.720 --> 1:44:09.559 your tent because it's getting ready to get really messy 1:44:09.600 --> 1:44:12.960 inside you're sleeping back there were those those darn what 1:44:13.040 --> 1:44:18.599 do they call it the Tibetan sports or something. Yeah, 1:44:18.640 --> 1:44:21.439 but regardless, so that that went through me fairly quick. 1:44:21.479 --> 1:44:23.719 But it seemed like the next day, like the days 1:44:23.800 --> 1:44:26.560 after that's when it hit everyone, and I believe or 1:44:26.600 --> 1:44:30.240 noton was starting to feel like some stomach pains and 1:44:30.280 --> 1:44:33.559 this and that and the other. Um. But yeah, there 1:44:33.760 --> 1:44:36.439 was probably I think three out of four of us 1:44:37.479 --> 1:44:43.000 definitely had some scrub about our underpants, had some things happen. Well, 1:44:43.000 --> 1:44:45.960 this is an open forum, just discuss it freely. Yes, 1:44:46.120 --> 1:44:48.400 I do feel like you have to sugarcoat what right? 1:44:48.479 --> 1:44:51.720 I recall and and I mean Ranan's I don't think 1:44:51.720 --> 1:44:54.000 he'll get too upset, but I recall. But what was 1:44:54.000 --> 1:44:55.760 it that you know? We were asking, you know, each more, 1:44:55.800 --> 1:44:58.400 like hey, man, how you feeling You're doing okay? And 1:44:58.400 --> 1:45:01.000 and I remember I was either out of the tent 1:45:01.080 --> 1:45:03.559 or I could hear him in the tent, and it's like, hey, 1:45:03.640 --> 1:45:07.720 right on, how are you feeling this one? Uh? Um no, 1:45:07.800 --> 1:45:10.840 I'm feeling better. But last night was a little rough 1:45:11.040 --> 1:45:14.160 and I was and it's like, okay, what happens Like, um, well, 1:45:14.160 --> 1:45:15.880 I had to use the bathroom and I didn't make 1:45:15.920 --> 1:45:17.960 it out of my sleeping bags. I mean, you know. 1:45:18.040 --> 1:45:22.200 And and Derek, you just yeah, when it when it's 1:45:22.200 --> 1:45:24.240 getting ready to hit you, you don't. I mean, well, 1:45:24.280 --> 1:45:28.840 I here's my story, the story of my that's I 1:45:28.920 --> 1:45:32.599 feel a good way to the end the podcast. We're 1:45:32.640 --> 1:45:35.360 not gonna end on poop. Okay, yes we are, because 1:45:35.400 --> 1:45:40.120 that's our relationship. We've we've had more hard times with 1:45:40.200 --> 1:45:45.640 our underpants than uh. I was in the height of 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:48.160 well it was right. It was as you were the 1:45:48.200 --> 1:45:50.439 morning before you went out and shot your sheep. When 1:45:50.439 --> 1:45:52.160 we got really into the area where we knew we 1:45:52.160 --> 1:45:56.599 could hunt. I've been puking all day. I couldn't really 1:45:56.600 --> 1:45:58.920 get out of my tent. Anytime I move I did, 1:45:59.160 --> 1:46:04.040 just my body would just like quiver with pain, stomach, head, 1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:09.360 just my whole existence was being attacked. And um, I 1:46:09.360 --> 1:46:11.600 would just be at some point during the night, I 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:15.519 was puking in my vestibule and I distinctly remember you 1:46:15.560 --> 1:46:19.439 wake it up and gone, then are you okay. I'm like, 1:46:19.840 --> 1:46:26.920 I'm okay, just letting it rip in the vestibule and 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:31.080 and and it was better. That was a rough time. Yeah, 1:46:31.120 --> 1:46:33.479 And and what was it the day before this all happened? 1:46:33.479 --> 1:46:35.360 I mean, you know, this kind of stuff hits you, like, 1:46:35.439 --> 1:46:38.800 especially like out too, sickness or whatnot. I mean, when 1:46:38.840 --> 1:46:41.000 you were hiking on the trail, it was fine. And 1:46:41.000 --> 1:46:42.600 then what was it when you stood up all of 1:46:42.640 --> 1:46:44.800 a sudden it I was in the snow all of 1:46:44.800 --> 1:46:48.040 a sudden. Was when those when are our donkeys or 1:46:48.120 --> 1:46:52.439 our mules got stuck in that past And we had 1:46:52.479 --> 1:46:55.679 just summoned the the very first summon out of camp. 1:46:56.000 --> 1:46:59.040 And yeah, we were going through a pass and it 1:46:59.400 --> 1:47:00.760 was like the north to have a mountain where there 1:47:00.800 --> 1:47:03.600 was really deep snow, and the donkeys were loaded with 1:47:03.640 --> 1:47:05.840 all this gear with the porters and it was too 1:47:05.920 --> 1:47:09.000 deep as snow. They were post holing, and so they 1:47:09.040 --> 1:47:11.920 had to offload all the stuff, and the porters were 1:47:11.960 --> 1:47:14.240 running a load of gear up and then we're gonna 1:47:14.280 --> 1:47:16.280 come back and grab the rest of it. And so 1:47:16.320 --> 1:47:19.280 we were just taking our time along over stopped while 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:20.800 we were, and they were filming some of it and 1:47:20.800 --> 1:47:22.720 trying to get figure out what we're gonna do. And 1:47:22.760 --> 1:47:24.720 as we were stopped and nobody saw this, but I 1:47:24.760 --> 1:47:26.360 was like standing up and then all of a sudden, 1:47:26.360 --> 1:47:28.799 I wasn't standing up anymore, Like I was just sitting 1:47:28.800 --> 1:47:32.280 in the snow or laying in the snow or whatever. Okay, 1:47:32.320 --> 1:47:34.559 that's interesting. And then from then on it was just 1:47:35.360 --> 1:47:39.320 my head was gone, like my there, you know, my 1:47:39.400 --> 1:47:43.240 brain was just not functioning. We're seeing things. I saw 1:47:43.400 --> 1:47:49.360 that wolf and a little baby, and then you know, 1:47:49.439 --> 1:47:51.640 not only the scarier than that kind of stuff was 1:47:51.720 --> 1:47:55.559 that like walking but not gonna understand like if your 1:47:55.640 --> 1:47:57.920 arms removing or if your legs were moving, or if 1:47:57.920 --> 1:47:59.960 they were doing the right things, Like your brain is 1:48:00.040 --> 1:48:02.800 not talking to your extremities anymore because it doesn't have 1:48:02.880 --> 1:48:07.400 enough oxygen to really do his job. And that was scary. 1:48:07.640 --> 1:48:12.360 And then I got over that, thank god, because you 1:48:12.400 --> 1:48:16.120 guys were discussing my exit from that. We were going 1:48:16.160 --> 1:48:20.559 to use our emergency exit Plan Global Rescue to get 1:48:20.600 --> 1:48:22.519 Ben out because we thought there is because when you 1:48:22.560 --> 1:48:24.240 when I saw you find because we're on and I 1:48:24.320 --> 1:48:26.280 got to camp and I kept looking back with knocktors 1:48:26.320 --> 1:48:29.160 down the valleys, like where is Ben? You and Ben 1:48:29.439 --> 1:48:32.720 been airs? Where are you guys? And finally when I 1:48:32.760 --> 1:48:35.120 saw you guys pop out of those trees like a 1:48:35.160 --> 1:48:38.559 mile down or however far he was holding he's holding 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:42.439 your hand or holding your arms, and I was like, oh, 1:48:42.520 --> 1:48:44.800 that's not good. And you guys were going one step 1:48:44.840 --> 1:48:47.200 at a time, and when when you finally got you there, 1:48:47.280 --> 1:48:50.800 I you know, we kind of just I just thought, Okay, 1:48:50.840 --> 1:48:53.000 it's only gonna get worse, like for you, like we 1:48:53.080 --> 1:48:55.679 have to go higher and further, like I just don't 1:48:55.680 --> 1:48:58.479 know this is gonna work. And yeah, we we were 1:48:58.640 --> 1:49:01.479 discussing how we're gonna you know, there was you know, 1:49:01.520 --> 1:49:03.680 because I think you you went through some this for 1:49:03.760 --> 1:49:06.080 a couple of days or how many days. Was that 1:49:06.320 --> 1:49:08.440 for that, I mean, that was just that one experience. 1:49:08.439 --> 1:49:13.720 But then I slept. So what I think happened, and 1:49:13.760 --> 1:49:16.040 what Ben was talking about was like I had I 1:49:16.040 --> 1:49:18.440 didn't get the flu. What I was getting the flu 1:49:19.080 --> 1:49:20.800 like I was getting the old cabman dow flu. At 1:49:20.840 --> 1:49:23.040 the same time, we hit that high altitude and I 1:49:23.080 --> 1:49:26.000 was so dehydrated, like my body was kind of battling 1:49:26.040 --> 1:49:28.920 everything that it just kind of attacked me all at once. 1:49:29.760 --> 1:49:32.080 I remember sitting down in the in the main tent 1:49:32.160 --> 1:49:34.760 with you guys and being so fucking cold. But it 1:49:34.800 --> 1:49:37.320 wasn't really that cold right day, but I was so 1:49:37.400 --> 1:49:40.719 fucking cold that I just felt like my whole body 1:49:40.800 --> 1:49:42.880 was breaking down. I was cold, I didn't really kind 1:49:42.880 --> 1:49:45.479 of didn't really know what was going on, and they 1:49:45.520 --> 1:49:48.120 put me in that big north Face poppy. Remember, I 1:49:48.120 --> 1:49:51.839 just sat against that chair and they have filmed interviews 1:49:51.880 --> 1:49:53.920 like what's going on, Ben, I'm like, I don't know, man, 1:49:54.040 --> 1:49:56.519 this amount was trying to kill me. Yeah, it's like, 1:49:57.080 --> 1:49:59.040 let's just go lay you down. You're like, no, leave 1:49:59.080 --> 1:50:02.360 me here, don't move me, don't touch me. And I 1:50:02.400 --> 1:50:04.599 went out and pee. I remember standing up to walk 1:50:04.600 --> 1:50:07.519 out and go pee, which I did, and realizing I 1:50:07.520 --> 1:50:10.040 could walk, and I was like, now I can make 1:50:10.080 --> 1:50:12.040 it to my tent. I went over to the tent, 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:15.040 I laid down and slept for twelve hours or something, 1:50:15.920 --> 1:50:19.160 and then and they had give me diamox and giving 1:50:19.200 --> 1:50:21.560 me a bunch of anti nausea, you know, pump me 1:50:21.600 --> 1:50:24.719 full of stuff and full of fluid. Slept for twelve hours, 1:50:24.880 --> 1:50:28.559 and I think the diamox did its job, and I 1:50:28.600 --> 1:50:32.160 felt better when I woke up, better enough to eat 1:50:32.160 --> 1:50:34.760 breakfast with everybody. And then it was given the order 1:50:34.800 --> 1:50:36.400 to like, go hike up there and see if you 1:50:36.439 --> 1:50:38.800 can right. Well, at that point, because I think I 1:50:38.840 --> 1:50:44.800 had taken my ram um the day before and the 1:50:45.439 --> 1:50:48.400 goal was to get you the ram closest to camp. 1:50:48.800 --> 1:50:50.479 Well that was no, you hadn't taken your ram yet. 1:50:50.520 --> 1:50:52.680 When when that was happening, we we didn't even go 1:50:53.120 --> 1:50:55.680 to the next camp. Yeah, that was right, we had 1:50:55.680 --> 1:50:57.920 to go to the next That was the camp that 1:50:58.000 --> 1:51:00.599 was the kid were hiking to the cam we're hiking 1:51:00.600 --> 1:51:03.240 to when I had altude sickness wherever it was, that 1:51:03.320 --> 1:51:05.360 was yeah, that was the first camp. That was our 1:51:05.400 --> 1:51:08.320 first camp. And then the next morning they said hey 1:51:08.439 --> 1:51:10.839 go we all degree. We remember we did some interviews 1:51:10.880 --> 1:51:13.960 for the We did interviews for the film, and then 1:51:15.040 --> 1:51:17.360 I went off with Raju, one of our main guys. 1:51:17.640 --> 1:51:19.599 You went ahead and they said, go ahead, and if 1:51:19.600 --> 1:51:22.400 you have any troubles, that's right. We're pulling the plug 1:51:22.439 --> 1:51:25.360 on this bitch. That's right. And as we get going, 1:51:25.400 --> 1:51:27.559 I'm started feeling pretty good. Where you and I were laughing, 1:51:27.720 --> 1:51:30.280 but he's like, oh, you're better now, thank thank goodness. 1:51:30.920 --> 1:51:33.960 And we get going. We get up mon is way 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:36.040 ahead of us. Our main guy, Mon is way ahead 1:51:36.080 --> 1:51:39.200 of us, scouting for sheep. Well, we finally we get 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:42.160 up to where man is. He sees his sheep. He's 1:51:42.160 --> 1:51:43.439 trying to show me whe where it is. And as 1:51:43.479 --> 1:51:46.559 I'm looking up the valleys trying to find these sheep 1:51:46.560 --> 1:51:52.800 in the alpine, my stomach explodes, like I got what 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:57.280 you had two days prior now, you know, post my 1:51:57.720 --> 1:52:00.639 altitude sickness or mountain sickness or whatever where I had going. 1:52:01.560 --> 1:52:05.599 Now I've got the secondary attack of immediately just doubled 1:52:05.640 --> 1:52:08.080 over in pain. And then I know you guys they 1:52:08.120 --> 1:52:10.040 READIO back and said, hey, we got some sheep. You 1:52:10.080 --> 1:52:12.400 guys all come forward out of camp. And by the 1:52:12.400 --> 1:52:14.120 time you get there, I'm already kind of laid up 1:52:14.120 --> 1:52:18.160 against the bank. Um. And it's a pretty bad way. 1:52:19.240 --> 1:52:21.360 But now it's not out to do sickness. Now it's 1:52:22.040 --> 1:52:25.800 you know, my stomach is turning a knot. And so 1:52:25.920 --> 1:52:28.320 we glass of sheep up. Mon gives us like, we're 1:52:28.400 --> 1:52:31.360 hunting now, We're not just walking. We're hunting now. Gives 1:52:31.400 --> 1:52:34.720 us the speech listen to Mon follow them on, and 1:52:34.760 --> 1:52:36.840 I'm like, I remember him talking. I'm just like, dude, 1:52:36.840 --> 1:52:41.320 this is the most miserable what is this? And remember 1:52:41.360 --> 1:52:45.080 we hi. Then we hiked forward to the next camp, right, 1:52:45.479 --> 1:52:47.519 and you guys are then again ahead of me. By 1:52:47.560 --> 1:52:50.240 the time I got there, I collapsed in the snow 1:52:50.280 --> 1:52:51.560 by the time I got there, and they put a 1:52:51.600 --> 1:52:53.200 tent up and I just crawled in that thing. And 1:52:53.200 --> 1:52:54.800 it was that night when I was puking out of 1:52:54.800 --> 1:53:00.120 the vest of you um. And then that evening, in 1:53:00.160 --> 1:53:01.840 the middle of the night, I get up, I've got 1:53:01.840 --> 1:53:05.840 to take a ship. I get ben airs or medic 1:53:05.880 --> 1:53:07.800 comes over to help me. I'm struggling. I'm like a 1:53:07.880 --> 1:53:11.240 week I haven't eaten anything for a while. And he 1:53:11.320 --> 1:53:14.640 gets me up and I pulled my pants down and 1:53:15.640 --> 1:53:18.320 it's just like it's I can't stand up. And I 1:53:18.360 --> 1:53:20.960 fell over in the snow and I laid in the 1:53:21.000 --> 1:53:28.400 snow my pants down and I let it fly. I'm 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:31.920 not laughing at you, I'm laughing with laughing. And in 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:35.200 the night there was their nepoly porters came with their 1:53:35.240 --> 1:53:38.920 flashlights as I laid in the snow, and they were like, 1:53:38.960 --> 1:53:42.280 are you okay? Okay? I'm like, look at me. Do 1:53:42.439 --> 1:53:50.599 I look okay? I'm not okay? I am dying here? Yeah? 1:53:51.040 --> 1:53:54.559 You are? Yeah, And that's what you know. And that's 1:53:54.560 --> 1:53:57.000 when they said that. That's when they said you need 1:53:57.040 --> 1:53:59.720 to go up and shoot these sheep. Ben will not 1:53:59.760 --> 1:54:01.439 be able to get it round. They said, Ben's not 1:54:01.479 --> 1:54:03.640 gonna get Yeah. That was like decided upon that I 1:54:03.720 --> 1:54:06.160 was not going to be hunting. And I went in 1:54:06.240 --> 1:54:09.680 my tent while you went hunting. The next day and 1:54:09.760 --> 1:54:12.800 just laid there all day long, twenty four hours, just 1:54:12.880 --> 1:54:14.840 laying in my tent. They would bring me all types 1:54:14.880 --> 1:54:17.160 of food and every smell of every food they brought, 1:54:17.640 --> 1:54:20.639 maybe puke again they brought. They're like, what we bring 1:54:20.640 --> 1:54:26.320 curry chicken, Oh, we bring curry pizza up we bring 1:54:26.360 --> 1:54:33.440 curry tea, we brought you apple. Then It's so a 1:54:33.480 --> 1:54:36.480 full day of that. But then that evening you guys returned, 1:54:36.800 --> 1:54:39.560 and I was feeling like, I think I ate some 1:54:39.680 --> 1:54:41.320 rice or something. And then you guys got back and 1:54:41.320 --> 1:54:44.760 I saw your faces, and I was like, oh my god, 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:47.320 Coal is one of the toughest people I know. For 1:54:47.480 --> 1:54:50.840 non Ostarch is probably the toughest person I've ever met. 1:54:51.480 --> 1:54:54.600 And they you guys looked like you've been through a battle. 1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:59.040 It was blowing. I remember it was blowing up top there, 1:54:59.040 --> 1:55:01.560 and we were so wind burnt. My lips were so 1:55:01.720 --> 1:55:04.480 chapped and burnt up. The roof of my mouth was burnt. 1:55:05.120 --> 1:55:08.400 I mean that was that was a big had been 1:55:08.440 --> 1:55:12.640 through and from my perspective, having like almost already being 1:55:12.800 --> 1:55:16.240 too weak to do very much at all. I remember 1:55:16.320 --> 1:55:18.360 I got up at one point during that day when 1:55:18.360 --> 1:55:21.480 you were out, you know, doing the real hard stuff, 1:55:21.480 --> 1:55:22.720 and I'm like, I think I could get to the 1:55:22.760 --> 1:55:24.720 creek down there. It was like a hundred yards away. 1:55:25.080 --> 1:55:29.120 I could make it to get back right well, And 1:55:29.400 --> 1:55:31.160 it was it was that what do we what do 1:55:31.240 --> 1:55:34.600 we say? Say? Listen? Um? I think I stayed back 1:55:34.600 --> 1:55:36.840 and I worked on the sheep that next day and 1:55:36.960 --> 1:55:39.000 they decided to take you for a little hike because 1:55:39.000 --> 1:55:41.680 they said, if you you gotta go try this otherwise. 1:55:41.800 --> 1:55:44.920 We remember they came there like you cut your sheep. 1:55:45.480 --> 1:55:48.120 And they came back and they said, can you go? 1:55:48.880 --> 1:55:51.840 Can you go hunting? I'm like, I can try, but 1:55:51.880 --> 1:55:54.400 I gotta light here more like I can't. I gotta 1:55:54.400 --> 1:55:56.560 eat something and try to like stand up. I haven't 1:55:56.560 --> 1:55:59.680 stood up, and you know, thirty hours, let me figure 1:55:59.680 --> 1:56:03.920 out how to get going here. And uh, then mom 1:56:04.040 --> 1:56:05.600 came back. I was like, there's a sheep close to camp. 1:56:05.680 --> 1:56:09.320 It's your only chance you will see you get up. 1:56:09.320 --> 1:56:12.400 You must get up your weekly and uh. He took 1:56:12.440 --> 1:56:14.800 me up there and we got up that freaking hill. 1:56:15.080 --> 1:56:17.120 But I couldn't. I said, look, I can't care anything, 1:56:18.760 --> 1:56:21.120 you know, I was, there's no ego and for me 1:56:21.200 --> 1:56:25.960 at that point, I was pretty weak and and and 1:56:26.000 --> 1:56:28.800 I just said, pack whatever you can in my pack 1:56:28.920 --> 1:56:34.760 and just get the rifle and let's go. And they yeah, 1:56:34.800 --> 1:56:37.560 we we we summited pry and know when we went 1:56:37.640 --> 1:56:41.200 up a thousand feet maybe feet, and it was pretty 1:56:41.240 --> 1:56:43.720 gradual and they were, you know, there there was like 1:56:43.760 --> 1:56:45.960 an old lady a crossing the road. They were always like, 1:56:46.120 --> 1:56:48.720 on to grab my elbow and then they helped me up. 1:56:48.760 --> 1:56:51.000 They were doing the best. Yeah they were. They understood 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:53.840 I was in a bad way. Um, and mon let 1:56:53.920 --> 1:56:57.360 him on later said, you know, I didn't think there 1:56:57.440 --> 1:57:00.840 was no way. Yeah, and enter you like, no, he 1:57:01.360 --> 1:57:04.560 looked like pretty fit, I guess. But I like how 1:57:04.600 --> 1:57:06.920 they put that. And then they put in the video 1:57:06.920 --> 1:57:10.200 like it was talking about you. He's like he's yeah, 1:57:13.520 --> 1:57:16.120 but yeah. And then we got up there. We get 1:57:16.200 --> 1:57:17.920 up to these sheep and they're like three or four 1:57:18.080 --> 1:57:20.400 d yards away and we realized that they had not 1:57:20.440 --> 1:57:27.120 packed my range finder and I subsequently and I felt 1:57:27.120 --> 1:57:31.160 pretty Um, I felt pretty desperate to kill a sheep 1:57:31.760 --> 1:57:35.040 and get back out of there. And I took a 1:57:35.040 --> 1:57:36.640 shot I shouldn't have took because I didn't. We they 1:57:36.640 --> 1:57:38.600 were like three hundred and I'm like meters or yards, 1:57:38.640 --> 1:57:40.720 I don't three hundreds. It turns out, I mean I 1:57:40.720 --> 1:57:44.400 shot where it's back. One shot, sheep run away. I 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:49.240 just remember thinking, well, you know, what a miserable, like, 1:57:49.320 --> 1:57:53.440 what a failure this is has been so close, so close, 1:57:54.000 --> 1:57:57.200 but there's no this is I feel better, but not 1:57:57.320 --> 1:58:00.920 strong enough and then yeah, to trying to go get 1:58:00.960 --> 1:58:03.280 water out of my Yeti bottle, and they had poured 1:58:03.320 --> 1:58:07.200 boiling water into my Yeti bottle, which, as anyone knows 1:58:07.240 --> 1:58:10.400 his Yetti bottle, it doesn't get any cooler with time. 1:58:11.600 --> 1:58:13.480 And so I went to take a large drink of 1:58:13.480 --> 1:58:16.280 water and poured boarding the water down my throat and 1:58:16.360 --> 1:58:21.920 on my face. Lovely experience, and then just lost it. 1:58:22.040 --> 1:58:24.960 Just lost it. And I feel bad it even to 1:58:25.080 --> 1:58:26.880 this day for losing it like I did, just like 1:58:27.600 --> 1:58:30.400 you know, just at at at my wits end with 1:58:30.480 --> 1:58:34.040 like this this continual right right things. And after seeing 1:58:34.080 --> 1:58:35.600 you go up and shoot a sheep, I'm like, man, 1:58:36.560 --> 1:58:38.880 I'm not that far away from this. You know, it's 1:58:38.920 --> 1:58:41.120 not it's not easy, but being healthy, I think I 1:58:41.160 --> 1:58:43.120 could do it, Like sure, I think I could do it. 1:58:43.560 --> 1:58:46.760 And then that night we all talked about it, and 1:58:46.800 --> 1:58:51.360 then we pretty much decided let's go. Like I got 1:58:51.360 --> 1:58:52.960 back to camp, I was feeling pretty shitty, but I 1:58:53.000 --> 1:58:56.080 got back all right. Well, I think that fire it 1:58:56.160 --> 1:58:57.720 was lit in you at that point in time, I 1:58:57.720 --> 1:59:00.720 could see that you were piste. Yeah, I was frustrated, 1:59:01.440 --> 1:59:04.960 and it was like it was good though, because I'm like, 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:08.240 I think he looks better. He got up there, he 1:59:08.480 --> 1:59:12.960 you know, and yeah, they basically said, I mean, you 1:59:13.000 --> 1:59:15.120 can put it your way. But I know how we 1:59:15.200 --> 1:59:18.320 had it to our like okay, mom's, Mom's like, this 1:59:18.360 --> 1:59:20.400 is our only goal. And they're way the hell up there. 1:59:20.680 --> 1:59:23.480 They're up and over those mountains, and it's kind of like, 1:59:23.520 --> 1:59:26.440 do you really think he can make that? And it's like, well, 1:59:26.480 --> 1:59:28.520 that's the only thing we can do. I mean, we 1:59:28.640 --> 1:59:33.040 just have to try and otherwise than he can right, 1:59:33.120 --> 1:59:36.280 otherwise I'll start going back. Yeah, And and in truth 1:59:36.320 --> 1:59:40.040 be told, you know, you never said I can't do what. 1:59:40.200 --> 1:59:42.320 You were always like, yeah, let's let's try it. And 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:44.000 we're all like, well, good, I don't think you can 1:59:44.000 --> 1:59:46.640 actually do it. I never thought in my mind. In 1:59:46.640 --> 1:59:50.480 my mind, I thought because I remember eating my first 1:59:50.560 --> 1:59:54.240 granola bar and feeling like that was a wind and 1:59:54.400 --> 2:00:00.720 I thought, well, that's a winet is possible. But then 2:00:00.720 --> 2:00:02.040 it just kept me like I said, you get a 2:00:02.040 --> 2:00:03.680 little winds, like I got a little food in me, 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:06.600 got a little more sleep because I couldn't sleep us 2:00:06.640 --> 2:00:08.520 so sick, I never slept, So now I have no 2:00:08.640 --> 2:00:13.360 sleep I have, you know, I haven't. I wrote in 2:00:13.440 --> 2:00:15.840 my journal and read it a lot. It's just like 2:00:16.200 --> 2:00:19.360 just kind of listing the misery points. But then yeah, 2:00:19.360 --> 2:00:22.000 then we decided to say we can. We kind of 2:00:22.040 --> 2:00:24.200 have to. He said, this is the last last sheep 2:00:24.240 --> 2:00:26.920 that we know they're in this valley that you know. 2:00:26.960 --> 2:00:28.880 I said, way, it's like, we gotta get up. I 2:00:28.880 --> 2:00:32.440 remember them saying, I gotta get up at five am. 2:00:32.560 --> 2:00:34.920 We gotta hike up over this past. Yeah, it was 2:00:35.000 --> 2:00:36.560 kind of like showing us what we need to do, 2:00:36.600 --> 2:00:38.800 they pointed. And it's kind of like one of those 2:00:38.840 --> 2:00:41.000 things as a guy, you're like not sure if the 2:00:41.040 --> 2:00:42.840 person is gonna be able to do it right. Yeah, 2:00:42.920 --> 2:00:46.600 that's where we gotta go almost like can intimidate you 2:00:46.760 --> 2:00:49.000 or see how you're gonna you know. But I don't 2:00:49.000 --> 2:00:52.680 remember any specifics around that, any conversation now, I don't 2:00:52.720 --> 2:00:55.600 remember anywhere out of it. Still, Yeah, I don't remember 2:00:55.640 --> 2:00:58.040 any Like, I just remember getting back to the tent 2:00:58.640 --> 2:01:02.080 after I missed this sheep and and burn my face 2:01:02.560 --> 2:01:07.880 boiling water and sitting there and ben Airs coming over. 2:01:07.960 --> 2:01:11.080 Ben Airs is this gentle, beautiful person like coming over 2:01:11.120 --> 2:01:15.040 and just saying, like, what's upset? You're upset. I'm like, 2:01:15.160 --> 2:01:17.160 can you tell you about I'm a little bit upset. 2:01:17.880 --> 2:01:21.120 I wish this was going another way, buddy, Like I 2:01:21.200 --> 2:01:25.520 wish this. I wish I was healthy and fit, and 2:01:25.720 --> 2:01:27.960 I think I could do this, Like if I'm healthy 2:01:27.960 --> 2:01:29.680 and fit, I think I can get it done. Like 2:01:29.720 --> 2:01:32.120 I don't. Yeah, I often even now think back of 2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:33.880 what it would have been like if we were like 2:01:33.920 --> 2:01:35.760 I was healthy, for all of us, it would have 2:01:35.760 --> 2:01:39.240 been a whole different experience. Um, I'm glad it went 2:01:39.280 --> 2:01:41.440 the way I did, but sure, well, yeah, but it 2:01:41.480 --> 2:01:43.120 would be a whole different experience for you and for 2:01:43.160 --> 2:01:46.040 everybody else in the trip. Had I been yeah, but 2:01:46.560 --> 2:01:48.640 I thought, you know, yes. The next day it was. 2:01:48.880 --> 2:01:52.520 It was a beautiful day. We go up the valley, 2:01:53.080 --> 2:01:55.200 that huge pass we had to go over, and I'm 2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:59.160 thinking with every step, I'm like, oh, boy, one ft 2:01:59.160 --> 2:02:02.400 in front the other. But I have been around so 2:02:02.440 --> 2:02:07.920 many guys that once they are um faced with adversity, 2:02:08.320 --> 2:02:11.440 how they can break down. And you never did that day. 2:02:11.520 --> 2:02:13.320 You just kept putting one foot in front of the 2:02:13.400 --> 2:02:15.560 other and you'd have to sit down. You were weak. 2:02:15.600 --> 2:02:18.200 We'd get your water, but you just sit down and 2:02:18.280 --> 2:02:20.320 we'd you know, and you would you get up? Yep, 2:02:20.400 --> 2:02:22.640 I'm good, and you just one foot in front of 2:02:22.640 --> 2:02:24.720 the other. I had a few breakdowns that day though. 2:02:24.880 --> 2:02:27.920 I remember taking my tracking poles and I remember Roj, 2:02:27.960 --> 2:02:30.920 you're saying in what little English she could say, like 2:02:30.960 --> 2:02:34.000 I remember, remember we we go up this snowy pass 2:02:34.040 --> 2:02:35.880 and like it's literally I don't know how many feet 2:02:35.880 --> 2:02:40.160 of snow. It was four four snow that was iced over, 2:02:40.200 --> 2:02:42.360 so you would be stepping on the ice and hoping 2:02:42.400 --> 2:02:44.080 that you didn't fall through, and you started to fall through. 2:02:44.600 --> 2:02:46.280 You know, anybody that's hiked in that kind of country 2:02:46.320 --> 2:02:50.320 knows what your post holing and every steps like going 2:02:50.360 --> 2:02:52.600 another mile, you know, when you're in that situation and 2:02:52.640 --> 2:02:55.480 we're at what sixteen thousand feet at this point, something 2:02:55.520 --> 2:02:59.720 like that, sixteen five. Yeah, now we're post holing for 2:02:59.800 --> 2:03:02.320 what seemed to be hours. I mean it was hours 2:03:02.360 --> 2:03:05.800 to get up and we summoned this. You know, it 2:03:05.880 --> 2:03:08.480 was a pretty gradual valley, but for that place, it 2:03:08.520 --> 2:03:13.000 was a very long, long, just arduous gradual. It wasn't 2:03:13.040 --> 2:03:15.880 a climb, like we didn't have to climb hands and knees, 2:03:15.920 --> 2:03:18.960 but it was a long slog and postal on through 2:03:19.000 --> 2:03:23.040 this ice. It's cold and um. We get to the 2:03:23.080 --> 2:03:26.760 summit of this uh of that ascent and we look 2:03:26.800 --> 2:03:29.280 at across this valley and I remember thinking I made 2:03:29.320 --> 2:03:31.120 it up here because they're like, the sheep are up there, 2:03:31.560 --> 2:03:33.600 and I'm thinking, let me get my gun out and 2:03:33.600 --> 2:03:36.000 get it loaded because you know, you know, the sheep 2:03:36.040 --> 2:03:38.200 are gonna be around here. And then finally they spot 2:03:38.240 --> 2:03:40.760 him when we look across, I'm like, this fucker is 2:03:40.800 --> 2:03:43.000 there's a mile and a half. Yeah, they made it 2:03:43.040 --> 2:03:45.240 sound like they were right there because he went around 2:03:45.280 --> 2:03:47.920 the bowl and they waved us over. Sheep, sheep, sheep, 2:03:47.960 --> 2:03:51.520 and it's like, okay, right here. I'm like those sheep. 2:03:52.000 --> 2:03:54.240 I range. I'm like, wait what down there? And I 2:03:54.320 --> 2:03:57.640 ranged and it was like seventeen yards away and I 2:03:57.640 --> 2:04:02.600 looked at like that's too far. We're all like that far, 2:04:02.760 --> 2:04:04.400 he's not gonna make it, and we were. That was 2:04:04.600 --> 2:04:06.280 That was the one time where I thought this is 2:04:06.320 --> 2:04:09.040 over because it was hot as funk. Then remember it 2:04:09.720 --> 2:04:13.160 was burning our skin, like you know, the roof of 2:04:13.200 --> 2:04:16.280 your mouth is burning. My lips were chapter glare off 2:04:16.320 --> 2:04:18.760 the snow, glare off the snows, and it was actually 2:04:18.800 --> 2:04:21.480 fairly warm that day after, like you say, it got warm, 2:04:21.800 --> 2:04:24.240 and for being in that type of climate, it feels 2:04:25.040 --> 2:04:27.680 when it does break and you get that sun and no, 2:04:27.800 --> 2:04:31.000 when there it feels hot. Oh yeah, because there's just 2:04:31.080 --> 2:04:33.680 there's no there's not as much atmosphere. The air is thinner, 2:04:33.960 --> 2:04:36.200 so that sun is that much more intense. And so 2:04:36.240 --> 2:04:39.720 we're sitting on that ridge glass and the sheep and 2:04:39.760 --> 2:04:42.000 that sun is hitting me and I'm I'm just like 2:04:42.720 --> 2:04:45.920 I can't remember. I remember thinking like this is some 2:04:46.040 --> 2:04:51.880 real adventurous stupidity. I'm gonna go after these sheep, but 2:04:52.080 --> 2:04:53.800 I'm not sure how I'm gonna make it up out 2:04:53.800 --> 2:04:55.680 of here, because I'm thinking, well, we had to drop 2:04:55.680 --> 2:04:58.680 down almost two thousands. Yeah, so you gotta drop down 2:04:59.440 --> 2:05:03.240 feet after climbing three thousand and then go back up 2:05:03.360 --> 2:05:05.880 with the sheep and I gotta go back and I'm thinking, 2:05:05.920 --> 2:05:07.560 we're gonna have to camp down here, but we don't 2:05:07.560 --> 2:05:10.640 have any tents or anything with us, because it's like 2:05:10.720 --> 2:05:13.120 maybe you know, we left camp at six and maybe 2:05:13.120 --> 2:05:16.480 six hours later we summ it like that. That the 2:05:16.560 --> 2:05:19.240 thing I appreciated most about man, and I mean this 2:05:19.320 --> 2:05:22.360 from like a guide standpoint. There was no question in 2:05:22.440 --> 2:05:26.120 Mom's mind. Once he saw those once, like he kept 2:05:26.120 --> 2:05:29.720 pushing ahead to scout and look. Once he saw those sheep, 2:05:29.760 --> 2:05:32.000 there was no question at that point whether he was 2:05:32.000 --> 2:05:33.600 going to get you there or not. He knew it 2:05:33.920 --> 2:05:35.480 and he's like, we go down here and you don't 2:05:35.520 --> 2:05:37.760 like keephould we go here here here, and we'll go there, 2:05:38.000 --> 2:05:40.280 and like he was all about it. I was back 2:05:40.320 --> 2:05:43.760 there probably not on those guys are thinking what that 2:05:43.960 --> 2:05:46.440 is far Like I don't know if I would have 2:05:46.480 --> 2:05:51.960 been if I was guiding that time. I was thinking, 2:05:52.200 --> 2:05:55.080 that is a large drop off in a quite a 2:05:55.080 --> 2:05:58.280 bit of chunk a type of ways over there. And 2:05:58.400 --> 2:06:02.160 so for him to be that falsy to make the 2:06:02.200 --> 2:06:05.040 call to do it, um, you obviously have to be 2:06:05.080 --> 2:06:07.440 there to see it. But um, he just you know, 2:06:07.520 --> 2:06:09.320 and you guys just grabbed. There was not much talk 2:06:09.360 --> 2:06:11.440 about it. He said, you guys stay here, I'll take 2:06:11.440 --> 2:06:14.760 Ben and Raju and we next thing, you know, Raju 2:06:15.000 --> 2:06:18.160 and I and Mom are sliding on our asses down 2:06:18.160 --> 2:06:22.000 an icy cliff, I mean sliding to the point where 2:06:22.120 --> 2:06:24.320 and they were again treating me like a grandma, like 2:06:24.360 --> 2:06:26.720 trying to hold my legs from so I wouldn't flip, 2:06:27.240 --> 2:06:30.120 but we slid a thousand feet down a cliff on 2:06:30.160 --> 2:06:34.120 our butts and now you're wet, and it's like and 2:06:34.160 --> 2:06:36.080 so then after that we got down to the bottom. 2:06:36.120 --> 2:06:38.960 It was a pretty easy traverse up to the point 2:06:38.960 --> 2:06:40.880 where this where. But then we had to go up 2:06:40.880 --> 2:06:43.080 a big ridge to get to where we could lay 2:06:43.080 --> 2:06:46.320 down in the glasses sheet. And once we got there, 2:06:47.640 --> 2:06:51.320 that's when I knew. We got three fifty yards away, 2:06:52.040 --> 2:06:55.600 That's what I knew. I was like, oh wow, I'm here. 2:06:55.960 --> 2:06:57.680 I came all the way here, and I'm gonna kill 2:06:57.720 --> 2:07:00.880 this animal, and I knew it at that point I knew. 2:07:01.200 --> 2:07:04.160 I was like it was almost like I started looking 2:07:04.160 --> 2:07:06.200 back up at you guys who had stayed up in 2:07:06.200 --> 2:07:08.000 the hill, like how are we gonna get this thing 2:07:08.000 --> 2:07:11.040 out of here before you shot it? And then I 2:07:11.200 --> 2:07:14.920 laid you know, mon and I discussed which sheep was which, 2:07:15.000 --> 2:07:18.120 and I laid there and we were waiting for the 2:07:18.200 --> 2:07:21.240 sheep he's laying down to turn, and I just remember 2:07:21.320 --> 2:07:23.800 like thinking, being the most calm I had been in 2:07:23.960 --> 2:07:27.520 quite some time, not nervous, no pressure to kill it. 2:07:28.360 --> 2:07:30.880 I knew. I was like I didn't come like I 2:07:30.920 --> 2:07:33.000 didn't come all this way, and there's no way this 2:07:33.120 --> 2:07:37.200 thing is not going to die right here. It's not happening. 2:07:38.760 --> 2:07:41.640 And it was, you know, it was. He turned in 2:07:41.680 --> 2:07:43.480 his bed a little bit, stood up, and then laid 2:07:43.480 --> 2:07:45.080 back down to the point where I could get a 2:07:45.080 --> 2:07:47.240 bullet in him, and one shot and he stood up, 2:07:47.360 --> 2:07:50.760 ran a circle and fell over. And I didn't cheer. 2:07:50.840 --> 2:07:53.120 I didn't. I just put my face down my pack 2:07:53.160 --> 2:07:56.840 and kind of like cool, soaked it up, soaked it 2:07:56.920 --> 2:07:59.480 up a little bit, and then even getting over to 2:07:59.520 --> 2:08:03.440 the sheep. Now we gotta go down this little icy 2:08:03.560 --> 2:08:06.160 actually this little icy ravine and up over to the 2:08:06.160 --> 2:08:09.640 bench where they were at, and there's another three feet 2:08:10.800 --> 2:08:15.080 and then we gotta go. But I remember the mountain 2:08:15.600 --> 2:08:17.600 to the How would have it would have been to 2:08:17.640 --> 2:08:19.520 the south of us whatever, Yeah, I would have been 2:08:19.520 --> 2:08:21.240 the south because the sun was on. It was the 2:08:21.280 --> 2:08:25.760 most beautiful range I had ever seen. And I sat 2:08:25.800 --> 2:08:29.480 there with the game scout and he tried to explain 2:08:29.480 --> 2:08:34.080 to me that he had a snow leopard trapline. Oh right, yep, 2:08:35.440 --> 2:08:38.280 And I remember thinking, oh my god, that was the 2:08:38.320 --> 2:08:41.320 most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life, regardless 2:08:41.360 --> 2:08:46.680 of how I got there, and so those moments are special. Man, yep. 2:08:48.600 --> 2:08:51.760 I remember ran a seeing there just being blown away 2:08:51.800 --> 2:08:56.040 that like, wow, it's actually went down. This actually happened, 2:08:56.440 --> 2:08:58.720 Like I cannot believe it. Ben shot as sheep, and 2:08:58.760 --> 2:09:02.120 I mean, and I can honestly say that us three 2:09:02.200 --> 2:09:06.839 had um. I don't think there was any question or mind. 2:09:07.760 --> 2:09:11.320 The day or two before that, you weren't going you 2:09:11.360 --> 2:09:14.440 were going home probably on a helicopter, and this was 2:09:14.440 --> 2:09:17.160 not going to happen for you getting your sheep, and 2:09:17.200 --> 2:09:20.440 so for you to pull through on that, it was 2:09:20.720 --> 2:09:23.640 it was amazing because it was I love those success 2:09:23.680 --> 2:09:27.000 stories with my hunters, showing them what they can do, 2:09:27.560 --> 2:09:31.240 and so for you to pull through and you to 2:09:31.400 --> 2:09:34.200 do that is just amazing for us to see and 2:09:34.520 --> 2:09:37.360 you know, and no one you know, yeah sure people. Yeah. 2:09:37.480 --> 2:09:40.400 Unfortunately it wasn't shown on the on the video you 2:09:40.440 --> 2:09:43.840 guys did um, which I wish that was shown because 2:09:43.880 --> 2:09:46.720 the adversity and that was it was amazing that you 2:09:46.720 --> 2:09:50.360 you conquered that, you know, and so that was amazing 2:09:50.400 --> 2:09:52.600 in itself, and it was like on our way out, 2:09:52.640 --> 2:09:54.760 I just remember you were like a new man, you know, 2:09:55.080 --> 2:09:57.840 you were just I mean we were just hiking up 2:09:57.840 --> 2:10:01.280 and I just feel like, whoa Ben? I remember, like 2:10:01.760 --> 2:10:04.840 I remember when I finally was feeling good, right because 2:10:04.880 --> 2:10:06.560 you got sick and it was a day and then 2:10:06.600 --> 2:10:08.520 you like have a day to kind of day and 2:10:08.560 --> 2:10:11.360 a half. Well, my day and a half was, you know, 2:10:12.360 --> 2:10:14.000 well plus out to six. My day and a half 2:10:14.000 --> 2:10:16.000 was kind of in the ship, right, I had mine, 2:10:17.080 --> 2:10:20.600 and um, I finally felt good. I don't think it 2:10:20.640 --> 2:10:22.040 was because I killed a sheep. I just think it 2:10:22.080 --> 2:10:24.879 because I finally think the I think the exerted energy 2:10:25.120 --> 2:10:27.760 helped push things through your body quickly, or maybe and 2:10:28.080 --> 2:10:30.560 getting more hydrated, getting some food in you, all the above. 2:10:30.680 --> 2:10:32.560 What do you remember? Like, So we killed the sheep, 2:10:32.600 --> 2:10:34.360 we go, we do our pictures and all our stuff, 2:10:34.920 --> 2:10:38.000 and then we start hiking back to the summit where 2:10:38.080 --> 2:10:42.240 we saw the sheep from, and I remembered you. It 2:10:42.320 --> 2:10:45.320 was you and Ben Ranan would be good ways ahead 2:10:45.320 --> 2:10:47.320 of me the whole time, Like you guys would hike 2:10:47.360 --> 2:10:49.760 ahead of me and then stop and I eventually get there. 2:10:50.120 --> 2:10:52.120 You hike ahead of me and stop and I eventually 2:10:52.120 --> 2:10:56.480 get there. The moment when I felt the best was 2:10:56.520 --> 2:10:58.400 when we got to that summit and we were taking 2:10:58.400 --> 2:11:03.000 pictures and jacking around filming. I finally felt good, like 2:11:03.040 --> 2:11:07.080 I finally felt clear and good and healthy and happy 2:11:08.440 --> 2:11:11.440 and not even killing the sheep, not even getting like 2:11:11.760 --> 2:11:13.800 but getting up that because now I knew we were 2:11:13.840 --> 2:11:18.720 going down into camp and were going down into camp 2:11:19.120 --> 2:11:21.960 and I don't want to go up anymore for a while. Um. 2:11:22.000 --> 2:11:25.200 And then when we're going down through that valley where 2:11:25.200 --> 2:11:27.040 we had to post all up, we slid down on 2:11:27.040 --> 2:11:29.640 our butts and I remember sliding down with ben Airs 2:11:29.680 --> 2:11:33.080 like fucking cheering as we went. I think you went 2:11:33.120 --> 2:11:35.640 forward a little bit about us we were and Rogerie 2:11:35.680 --> 2:11:37.960 was sliding and every we're all sliding on the ice 2:11:38.880 --> 2:11:42.200 and cheering like a fucking roller coaster. And I was like, dude, 2:11:42.200 --> 2:11:46.120 that those experiences are. It was a spectacular day because 2:11:46.120 --> 2:11:49.440 I think everyone in camp, everyone was so excited for 2:11:49.520 --> 2:11:52.840 you that whoa, he did it, like he actually did it. 2:11:52.880 --> 2:11:56.600 And I guarantee you pushing through and doing that, that 2:11:56.760 --> 2:12:00.000 showed those guys that anything is possible out there, because 2:12:00.040 --> 2:12:01.960 there are people that show to those camps that cannot 2:12:02.360 --> 2:12:05.120 do it, they can't make it up the mountain, and 2:12:05.200 --> 2:12:09.520 so to have those people in camp that they help 2:12:09.760 --> 2:12:12.640 get through those times. That helps the next person to 2:12:13.120 --> 2:12:15.560 the other and it helps, you know, to tell these 2:12:15.560 --> 2:12:18.040 experiences and for them to put in their you know, 2:12:18.080 --> 2:12:21.560 their their memory bank, you know. But well, yeah that 2:12:21.600 --> 2:12:24.280 they you know, the hunt we went on before we had, 2:12:24.320 --> 2:12:26.760 you know, the Kodiak hunt. I came out of that thinking, like, man, 2:12:26.800 --> 2:12:29.240 I did pretty good and then really struggle. I put 2:12:29.240 --> 2:12:31.120 a hundred pounds of my pack and went four miles. 2:12:31.880 --> 2:12:35.480 We did it. Like I didn't get sick or falling 2:12:35.520 --> 2:12:38.240 the river. You know, I didn't grow up doing stuff 2:12:38.320 --> 2:12:40.200 that you've you've been doing for many more years than me. 2:12:40.320 --> 2:12:43.520 So for me, these things are monumental. They just are. 2:12:44.000 --> 2:12:47.000 And I'm not something fucking a don you know, average 2:12:47.080 --> 2:12:49.880 height to average build, don't really like these things for 2:12:49.920 --> 2:12:51.880 me are are just more monumental. I'm not afraid to 2:12:51.920 --> 2:12:53.640 say it. I give a ship. I have no ego 2:12:53.680 --> 2:12:55.800 about it. Like, these things for me are just a 2:12:55.840 --> 2:12:58.360 little bit the mountain a little bit taller than for 2:12:58.440 --> 2:13:01.720 other people. And and like I said, there's other people 2:13:01.800 --> 2:13:04.280 that can't do things that I can do the same. 2:13:04.880 --> 2:13:08.320 But I've always been quick to realize that these things 2:13:08.360 --> 2:13:10.400 are beyond the scope of what I ever thought I 2:13:10.440 --> 2:13:14.320 could could do. And so leaving that Kodiak on, I'm like, man, 2:13:16.240 --> 2:13:19.240 legit you put you had a bar like legit, and 2:13:19.320 --> 2:13:21.320 I hopped over it and I felt good to have 2:13:21.440 --> 2:13:23.640 done it. And then the Paul was like, I wasn't 2:13:23.680 --> 2:13:25.520 really sure what the bar was, but I knew it was. 2:13:25.600 --> 2:13:26.920 This is the hardest, but it's kind of a really 2:13:26.960 --> 2:13:31.040 screwed up moving bar and I shipped all over it. 2:13:30.080 --> 2:13:36.160 And then it's like, but that hunt's describes like the 2:13:36.200 --> 2:13:37.960 hardest mount hut in the world. It is hard, and 2:13:37.960 --> 2:13:40.400 I don't have a lot, you know, the one really 2:13:40.800 --> 2:13:44.600 you've been to Azuba, John had done those other things. Um, yeah, 2:13:44.600 --> 2:13:47.840 and I think you're right if you were healthy. You 2:13:47.880 --> 2:13:52.760 know that the the the obstacles in Nepal is mainly 2:13:52.800 --> 2:13:56.720 the altitude. Yeah, that's what the obstacle is. It's not 2:13:56.800 --> 2:13:59.840 I mean, it's a gradual client like you don't there 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:02.839 some steep places, no doubt about it. But it's mainly 2:14:03.040 --> 2:14:06.760 the altitude. And but there you can be on Kodiak 2:14:06.840 --> 2:14:10.600 and turn it into the roughest, nastiest physical hunt, like 2:14:10.760 --> 2:14:13.680 chasing goats or deer something up a brushy hillside. In 2:14:13.680 --> 2:14:16.560 August or September and having to you know, beat your 2:14:16.600 --> 2:14:19.280 way through all that stuff. But I mean, there, I've 2:14:19.280 --> 2:14:21.200 been in so many places around the world where like 2:14:21.240 --> 2:14:24.000 I'm like, wow, I've said a new bar of ship here. 2:14:24.200 --> 2:14:26.800 This isn'tbelievable. Yeah, so you're you go through like days 2:14:26.800 --> 2:14:29.280 and days of no footing, no trails. We walked on 2:14:29.920 --> 2:14:33.600 most of our time hiking through Nepal was on old 2:14:33.880 --> 2:14:38.200 but not old. They're rarely fairly new hillside goat trail, 2:14:38.280 --> 2:14:42.240 goat and cheam trails, and so you know, we were 2:14:42.320 --> 2:14:44.600 hiking in high altitude. It was hard, and we hiked 2:14:44.600 --> 2:14:46.600 a long time for a lot for a for a 2:14:46.600 --> 2:14:50.400 few days. But it wasn't like what you do in Kodiak, 2:14:50.440 --> 2:14:55.240 where you've got to beat brush and slog through you know, 2:14:55.360 --> 2:14:58.200 bogs and stuff. We have a footing. So it was 2:14:58.240 --> 2:15:00.520 hard and just a hard and different way it was. 2:15:00.600 --> 2:15:03.160 I mean, it definitely set a new physical bar for 2:15:03.280 --> 2:15:06.680 me um on pushing because when I went up after 2:15:06.760 --> 2:15:09.960 my ram with with Mon, I kind of made the 2:15:10.000 --> 2:15:13.040 mistake of I'm going to stay with man and I 2:15:13.080 --> 2:15:15.320 am going to hike just as hard as these guys, 2:15:15.600 --> 2:15:18.360 not to you know, but just to like, I just 2:15:18.360 --> 2:15:19.880 felt like that's what I need to do. Well, You're 2:15:19.920 --> 2:15:22.680 in the hunt that way, and I'm wired that way, 2:15:23.360 --> 2:15:27.680 and and so that day pushed me extremely hard. I've 2:15:27.720 --> 2:15:31.520 never expanded my lung capacity to that size of like 2:15:31.760 --> 2:15:35.120 just breathing so hard, and and so that day I 2:15:35.160 --> 2:15:37.480 just remember like, wow, I cannot, you know. At the 2:15:37.560 --> 2:15:40.000 end of that day, I was so taxed and spent, 2:15:40.760 --> 2:15:43.200 But it was a different level because yes, I've gone 2:15:43.240 --> 2:15:46.440 through brushier and nastier type of things like on Kodiak 2:15:46.480 --> 2:15:48.960 or cheecats with sheep or whatever. But then I was like, 2:15:49.080 --> 2:15:53.160 I have never felt like that before. And I what 2:15:53.280 --> 2:15:55.320 I came away with on that huck because I've always 2:15:55.360 --> 2:15:57.680 thought about, you know, I'd like to go some of 2:15:57.800 --> 2:16:00.280 some of these big mountains sometime, you know. But I 2:16:00.360 --> 2:16:03.040 kind of came away with the feeling, you know, and 2:16:03.040 --> 2:16:04.720 what you know, waking up in the middle of the 2:16:04.800 --> 2:16:07.040 night not being able to breathe very well in camp 2:16:07.640 --> 2:16:09.680 that night. I think you and I both were really 2:16:09.760 --> 2:16:12.880 uneasy that night and we I remember getting out of 2:16:12.920 --> 2:16:15.000 my tent. I had to because I felt like I 2:16:15.040 --> 2:16:18.839 wasn't getting any air in my tent. But that uneasy feeling. 2:16:19.240 --> 2:16:22.600 It made me think to myself, I'm not so sure 2:16:22.680 --> 2:16:25.240 that I person really have a big desire to go 2:16:25.720 --> 2:16:28.640 climb on these really big mountains like I just you know, 2:16:28.760 --> 2:16:30.680 and I remember asking, right, honestly, does this ever get 2:16:30.680 --> 2:16:32.720 at me better? Like you guys are so used to this, 2:16:33.320 --> 2:16:36.800 And he's like, um, not, I mean it's no, it's 2:16:36.840 --> 2:16:39.200 really not that comfortable. And the guys that do it 2:16:39.200 --> 2:16:41.640 are just wired differently, and it's kind of like I 2:16:41.640 --> 2:16:44.680 guess like us. I mean, they just they pushed through 2:16:44.720 --> 2:16:48.160 it and they're mentally strong and and so for us 2:16:48.200 --> 2:16:50.400 to do these types of hunts no matter where it is, 2:16:51.080 --> 2:16:53.640 you know, it sounds mantola, but it's it's one of 2:16:53.640 --> 2:16:55.680 those things that I think it just it makes you 2:16:55.760 --> 2:16:58.560 appreciate things in life, getting back to what we talked 2:16:58.560 --> 2:17:02.360 about earlier on makes appreciate things in life, coming home 2:17:02.480 --> 2:17:06.039 to a nice, warm home, being there with your family, 2:17:06.320 --> 2:17:11.400 nice cooked meals, good gear, everything in a place like 2:17:11.440 --> 2:17:13.440 you and I were in that case, we were voluntailor 2:17:13.480 --> 2:17:17.280 really there no um. And this is why I think 2:17:17.320 --> 2:17:22.520 military members even think about us like you know, okay 2:17:24.040 --> 2:17:28.720 on a hunt, but like you paid for this, Um, 2:17:28.800 --> 2:17:30.600 I think you put yourself in the thing where you 2:17:30.920 --> 2:17:33.920 the environment is out to get you to a point 2:17:33.959 --> 2:17:38.520 where and you can't turn that off. It's relentless, like 2:17:38.600 --> 2:17:41.280 you can't turn it off. And then the in the 2:17:41.320 --> 2:17:43.600 normal world you can turn it off and you want, 2:17:44.120 --> 2:17:46.240 you can turn like if you're like, man, I'm really 2:17:46.280 --> 2:17:48.959 not feeling it today, I just like to after work, 2:17:49.000 --> 2:17:51.000 I'm gonna go home and wash them team to stay 2:17:51.040 --> 2:17:53.080 at home. Turn it off. You can turn it off. 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:55.080 You had sick days, turn it off out there. I 2:17:55.120 --> 2:17:58.720 had sick days, but I couldn't turn it off because 2:17:58.720 --> 2:18:01.320 I either like the chord and get the helicopter to 2:18:01.360 --> 2:18:04.879 come or walk the funk out like, so you can't 2:18:04.920 --> 2:18:07.400 turn that off. You can't take an easy day out there, 2:18:07.520 --> 2:18:09.720 like you just have to push through it because there 2:18:09.800 --> 2:18:13.680 is no other way to be. And that's how those 2:18:13.680 --> 2:18:16.480 guys are. And then the more they push, the more 2:18:16.520 --> 2:18:18.280 they can push, and the next thing they know, they're 2:18:18.280 --> 2:18:20.280 standing in the top everest. You know. I think that's 2:18:20.280 --> 2:18:22.400 how that they described it to me. It's like you 2:18:22.480 --> 2:18:24.400 keep pushing the next thing you know you're the highest thing, 2:18:25.120 --> 2:18:27.280 and you just don't think about it why you're pushing, 2:18:27.320 --> 2:18:30.320 because otherwise you'd be like this scary, never mind that 2:18:30.360 --> 2:18:36.959 nowhere and you just never mind the oxygen in my brain. Babies. Anyway, 2:18:37.000 --> 2:18:39.959 we did. This is where we at two hours and 2:18:40.000 --> 2:18:43.200 seventeen minutes. Cold Cramer not goodness. We sure rambled on. 2:18:43.400 --> 2:18:45.480 We really did. I hope it was interesting for the 2:18:45.520 --> 2:18:49.320 folks out in the podcast land. He probably was, well, 2:18:49.360 --> 2:18:51.440 thank you for having me. I'm then I really appreciate it. 2:18:51.680 --> 2:18:53.640 You and I have many more adventures to come, and 2:18:53.959 --> 2:18:55.720 you know, at some point in time we're gonna do 2:18:55.760 --> 2:18:58.400 an enjoyable trip. No, I'm trying to think of one 2:18:58.600 --> 2:19:01.360 for you. We've done like several non hunting trips that 2:19:01.400 --> 2:19:04.800 were relatively enjoyable. You know. I think what we're gonna 2:19:04.840 --> 2:19:07.240 do next time is we're gonna blindfold you and then 2:19:07.320 --> 2:19:09.400 we go and you'll just be like, where are we going? 2:19:09.520 --> 2:19:15.680 Cold Surprise Pakistan. You are at the bottom of the 2:19:15.680 --> 2:19:22.000 ocean and you have diarrhea. How did you make me? Uh? Yep, 2:19:22.560 --> 2:19:24.920 you know, I just you know, I don't know why 2:19:24.959 --> 2:19:28.920 Hannah doesn't like me. Well, I will say Hannah told 2:19:28.959 --> 2:19:32.520 me today that she scheduled the photography session that year. 2:19:33.600 --> 2:19:37.560 Us so Cole's Smart Start Start Man he knows how 2:19:37.600 --> 2:19:42.040 to play things. He um for. As a thank you 2:19:42.120 --> 2:19:45.120 for Hannah, my wife, allowing me to come on these 2:19:45.800 --> 2:19:49.680 great adventures, she bought us a photography package too, because 2:19:49.720 --> 2:19:52.039 he's noticed. You had noticed when we're on our trips, 2:19:52.600 --> 2:19:55.080 I do like to look at photos of my family, 2:19:55.360 --> 2:19:57.760 especially on Nepal, when I was like, I hope I 2:19:57.760 --> 2:20:00.680 get to see these folks again. Yeah, be nice. Oh here, 2:20:00.840 --> 2:20:04.040 I enjoy senior little man and and uh telling your 2:20:04.080 --> 2:20:07.879 stories and yeah, yeah, so hopefully, yeah, we're gonna get 2:20:07.879 --> 2:20:11.680 some photos thanks to your gift of our family that 2:20:11.720 --> 2:20:14.000 I can look at you next. You've always done for me. Well, 2:20:14.160 --> 2:20:15.600 next time I'm shipping my pants with you, that I 2:20:15.600 --> 2:20:18.199 can look at those photos like, well, we'll have new sponsors. 2:20:18.560 --> 2:20:24.000 It depends felt diapers. Oh god, no, man, I'd like 2:20:24.000 --> 2:20:27.440 to say. I always say, you know, I'm thirty two 2:20:27.480 --> 2:20:31.600 and you're fifty five. I look like I Thank god. 2:20:31.680 --> 2:20:34.160 My girlfriend thinks they look good with great hair otherwise. 2:20:35.000 --> 2:20:36.640 But you know, we got a long ways to go 2:20:36.680 --> 2:20:41.119 in this this industry, this world, hunting world. So I'm 2:20:41.160 --> 2:20:44.400 sure they'll be numerous more things that we do that 2:20:45.280 --> 2:20:48.440 we'll have required two our podcast to unpack them, many 2:20:48.480 --> 2:20:51.400 many more adventures to come. Thank you, buddy. All right, 2:20:51.440 --> 2:20:56.840 thank you sir. That's it. That is all. Thank you 2:20:57.000 --> 2:21:00.720 Mr Cole Kramer so much for being the guy that 2:21:00.800 --> 2:21:05.240 you are being a part of my life. Truly appreciative, 2:21:05.280 --> 2:21:09.160 and I am also appreciated everyone listening through these first 2:21:09.200 --> 2:21:12.960 eighteen episodes and coming up to me at events this 2:21:13.040 --> 2:21:15.760 week at Total Archie Challenge, I probably talked to you know, 2:21:15.840 --> 2:21:18.400 fifty or sixty people that have listened to the podcast, 2:21:18.480 --> 2:21:20.080 and each one of you that have come up and 2:21:20.160 --> 2:21:23.160 chatted with me have been respectful. I just wanted to 2:21:23.160 --> 2:21:26.120 to shake hands and talk about this thing we're doing 2:21:26.160 --> 2:21:29.600 called the Hunting Collective, and and that keeps me going, 2:21:29.840 --> 2:21:33.480 that makes me excited about the future, and it's a 2:21:33.520 --> 2:21:38.199 bright future for us here. News regarding that future coming 2:21:38.240 --> 2:21:40.640 up real soon. I won't teach you much more than that, 2:21:41.120 --> 2:21:43.119 And in the meantime, you can go to the Hunting 2:21:43.160 --> 2:21:48.080 Collective dot com check out articles, videos, other podcasts. The 2:21:48.240 --> 2:21:51.240 last couple were great. We had Adam jan Kee on, 2:21:52.000 --> 2:21:56.199 we had Casey Butler from Hushing, We had Ryan Callahana 2:21:56.280 --> 2:22:00.680 First Light, Fred Eichler, John Gaye of b h A 2:22:01.120 --> 2:22:03.120 just a bunch of great conversations with a bunch of 2:22:03.280 --> 2:22:06.360 great people. Please right in, let us know how you 2:22:06.360 --> 2:22:07.920 like it, let us know who else we can have 2:22:08.000 --> 2:22:13.440 on and how we can do it better. As always, many, many, many, 2:22:13.520 --> 2:22:17.279 thank you, and we'll see you next time. Bye.