Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, just jumping in with a quick announcement, a
Speaker 1: very exciting one. In addition to the shows that you'll hear,
Speaker 1: Jamie and I plug on this episode for our upcoming
Speaker 1: Shrek Tannic tour, we just added a show in Dublin
Speaker 1: on May twenty ninth. We will be at the Irish
Speaker 1: Film Institute and we are covering Titanic. So come to
Speaker 1: that show that we were finally able to confirm in Dublin.
Speaker 1: We're so excited for it. And then, speaking of Dublin,
Speaker 1: come to my birthday show. I'm doing a stand up
Speaker 1: comedy show with me and local comedians on my birthday
Speaker 1: on May seventeenth, also in Dublin. That show is at
Speaker 1: Hysteria Comedy Club. Tickets to both shows, as well as
Speaker 1: tickets for all of the other shows on this tour,
Speaker 1: can be found at Linktree Slash Bechtel Cast.
Speaker 2: Enjoy the episode on the bich Doodcast.
Speaker 3: The questions ask if movies have women and are discussions
Speaker 3: just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? It's
Speaker 3: the patriarchy, zephim vest start changing.
Speaker 2: With the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 1: Hi, Barbie Caitlin, Hi, Barbie, Jamie and Hi, Barbie listeners.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for tuning in. This is the
Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. My name is Barbie Jamie Loftus.
Speaker 1: And my name is Barbie Caitlin Durante. And this is
Speaker 1: our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,
Speaker 1: using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. And
Speaker 1: this is a special episode because we went on tour
Speaker 1: covering the Barbie Movie. We went to a bunch of cities.
Speaker 1: What you're about to hear shortly is the live show
Speaker 1: that we did. We this is the audio from the
Speaker 1: Sacramento show we recorded.
Speaker 2: This tour was such a blast we've in the past.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's let's get into it. Folks. You know,
Speaker 2: you're our family, your emergency contacts and vice versa. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we were really excited to do the Barbie Show live.
Speaker 2: This is sort of our first time doing We did
Speaker 2: a five city tour, but we only covered two movies
Speaker 2: and most of them were Barbie. And it was a
Speaker 2: really cool experience because I feel like we got the
Speaker 2: opportunity to build out I mean, I feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of the time with the live episodes, we've built
Speaker 2: out an episode, but this time we got to build
Speaker 2: out a show and like it was just such a blast.
Speaker 2: We went to San Francisco's, Sacramento, Dallas, Austin, and San Diego.
Speaker 2: Four out of five of those cities were the first
Speaker 2: time that we were going and meeting folks, and it
Speaker 2: was just truly the best, And I mean it was
Speaker 2: just really cool to see, you know, like a real
Speaker 2: sense of camaraderie among Bachtel cast listeners. We had a
Speaker 2: lot of people dressing up like just we come out
Speaker 2: of live performance and most of the time we're cooped
Speaker 2: up in our homes intensely discussing film and it's fun
Speaker 2: discourse and then it's just like really fun and freeing
Speaker 2: and nice to do that with the people who listen
Speaker 2: to this show. So if you attended any of these shows,
Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming. Barbies. Chances are that
Speaker 2: we talk to you personally because we are we enjoy
Speaker 2: doing that. It's really fun and quite frankly, I just
Speaker 2: like to see everyone's little outfits they're wearing. To quote
Speaker 2: the Will Ferrell character I hate in this movie in
Speaker 2: the least creepy way possible. Yes, but this was a blast,
Speaker 2: and so this is our one of our live shows.
Speaker 2: If you enjoy the vibe you're picking up and you
Speaker 2: happen to live in the UK, well, guess what good news.
Speaker 2: We're going on tour in the UK. We sure are.
Speaker 1: At the time of this recording. We have shows booked
Speaker 1: in late May in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh. So
Speaker 1: if you live in or near any of those places,
Speaker 1: or also if you just kind of live like anywhere
Speaker 1: to do like a little good trip. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: want to do a little trip, we're taking a trip,
Speaker 1: so you should too, So come see us live in
Speaker 1: the UK. Tickets for those shows are at link Tree, Slash,
Speaker 1: specdel Cast And we're so excited because we're covering Titanic
Speaker 1: and Shrek.
Speaker 2: The Shrek Tannic tour is going to go really hard,
Speaker 2: So if you can be there, highly recommended that you
Speaker 2: be there. Yeah, and yeah, again, thanks to everyone who
Speaker 2: came out to the Barbie tour, and you know, thank
Speaker 2: you to all of the venues that hosted us. We're
Speaker 2: posting the episode from STAB Comedy Theater and Sacramento, but
Speaker 2: there were so many wonderful places that hosted us along
Speaker 2: the way. And yeah, so without further ado, we present
Speaker 2: to you of Barbie Movie episode the beck Delcast. Oh
Speaker 2: my goodness, Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie. How I like how
Speaker 2: quickly the Barbie shows get corny, like they just have
Speaker 2: to be. You're like, we're just pushing through it. We
Speaker 2: gotta do it. How is everybody? Thanks for coming? Thank
Speaker 2: you for coming? Hell, yeah, we're really about to be
Speaker 2: here because we're doing two shows back to back. So
Speaker 2: we're doing I guess it's like the Margot Robbie wearing pink.
Speaker 1: Yes, we just took our kuayludes with the ninety the
Speaker 1: ninety minute release, and so by the time that show starts,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be so fucked up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass out in the middle
Speaker 2: of the show. We're gonna be crawling around. Anyways, we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about Barbie. So uh, okay, we'll do
Speaker 2: the free applause thing first. Give it up if you've
Speaker 2: ever listened to our show, Okay, give it up. If
Speaker 2: you have not and you're being dragged here against your wall, Okay,
Speaker 2: we have some people that's okay. At the safe space.
Speaker 2: Usually we are not able to make eye contact with all. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So like if we do it's not personal. It's just
Speaker 2: kind of like, there's nowhere to look. Who has seen
Speaker 2: the Barbie movie?
Speaker 1: Round of applause?
Speaker 2: Did anyone not see it? Whoa wow? People in San
Speaker 2: Francisco last night who didn't know who we were hadn't
Speaker 2: seen Barbie but still like wandered in and could not
Speaker 2: account for why like it was and they still loved
Speaker 2: the shows. I mean did they? I don't know. It
Speaker 2: was hard to say. But you know, whoever that man was,
Speaker 2: I'm rooting for him. I would never root for a
Speaker 2: man true Eli ship. Okay, so well we'll kind of
Speaker 2: get right into it. So Caitlin, Yeah, I know you've
Speaker 2: seen the Barbie movie. It's true. Oh. One of my
Speaker 2: favorite parts of the movie is when Easter races the
Speaker 2: Godfather and he's like, oh, yeah, the Godfather? Right? Oh
Speaker 2: is this the Godfather? Just like one of my favorite
Speaker 2: line reads every But Okay, so I know you've seen
Speaker 2: the movie. What is your history with Barbies in general?
Speaker 1: I did play with them. Brave brave of me to say, yes,
Speaker 1: I had a handful as a kid. I mostly made
Speaker 1: them have sex with each other. I had horny Barbies.
Speaker 1: I also like probably played with them in other contexts,
Speaker 1: but I don't remember that. And then after a while,
Speaker 1: I was like sort of out growing or I felt
Speaker 1: like I was outgrowing barbies. But I had a sister.
Speaker 2: She's still alive. I have a sister.
Speaker 1: She's three years younger than me, and so she was
Speaker 1: still in her barbie playing phase, and like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: just kind of like out of obligation, I would still
Speaker 1: play with her. But I was like, I'm too old
Speaker 1: for this, I'm too cool for this. So I turned
Speaker 1: so many of my barbies into weird barbies. I would
Speaker 1: chop off all their hair, I would paint them with
Speaker 1: nail polish. I would pop off their heads, their limbs,
Speaker 1: like I was just destroying the hell out of them
Speaker 1: and having a blast.
Speaker 2: That's real older sibling behavior. This is just mensing.
Speaker 1: What about you, what's your barbie history and experience.
Speaker 2: I've been preparing for this episode my whole life. Hi,
Speaker 2: I liked barbies when I was a kid. I like
Speaker 2: had a million cousins, so most of my barbies were
Speaker 2: handed me downs from them. And then my mom did
Speaker 2: that thing where she like, we didn't have any money,
Speaker 2: and yet she went into credit card debt, getting barbies
Speaker 2: I couldn't touch, and then she'd be like, this is
Speaker 2: going to pay for your college and you're like, they
Speaker 2: shockingly are still at her house. They have accomplished nothing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, my mom was a doll collector and I
Speaker 2: really liked dolls, but I couldn't like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was like the thing, especially when I hit middle school,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't let myself just like something. I had to
Speaker 2: turn it into like I had to intellectualize it, right,
Speaker 2: So I was thank you, but like I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's not that I like the movie Titanic because it's
Speaker 2: a perfect movie. I actually am really into naval history.
Speaker 4: So it just kind of intersects with this interest I have,
Speaker 4: and so I weirdly know a lot about naval history
Speaker 4: to cover up for the fact that I and it's
Speaker 4: similar with Barbie's.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to just be like I like playing
Speaker 2: with dolls. I was like, it's actually an anthropological history
Speaker 2: of American play things. And You're like, oh, what the
Speaker 2: fuck was she talking about?
Speaker 1: You know, how how did it feel when you released
Speaker 1: yourself from that need to and then you could just
Speaker 1: be like, I like what I like?
Speaker 2: I think you?
Speaker 1: Uh, well, no, I don't know. Sorry, this just became
Speaker 1: a therapy section.
Speaker 2: I think when I let lose, I let to lose,
Speaker 2: and then people were coming over to the apartment and
Speaker 2: they were like, it's too many dolls, you know. They
Speaker 2: were like, put some we're being watched, you know. But
Speaker 2: I also went through the phase and and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think I was wrong to do this, but
Speaker 2: I think they went in middle school. I went through
Speaker 2: the phase where I wrote the Mattel Corporational letter. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I gone onto Microsoft word and I had a thing
Speaker 2: or two to say about the body standards that Marbie encouraged.
Speaker 1: With Clippy, like are you writing a letter?
Speaker 2: Clippy was like, hey, Jamie, I support you fight the
Speaker 2: power feminist icon and ally Clippy, I let's hope so God.
Speaker 2: But yeah, non binary icon, Clippy, it's true. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I like wrote a strongly worded letter and then returned
Speaker 2: to my Barbies to play so, you know, child or
Speaker 2: full of shit? But yeah, I loved Barbie. I have
Speaker 2: a couple of slides to this effect. I also saw
Speaker 2: did anyone watch the Barbie animated movies? Yeah? One person? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you were either like my I didn't because they were like,
Speaker 2: mostly there's me and my dolls. I'm actually this is
Speaker 2: me on ludes and I was kind of intersects with
Speaker 2: the second, but yeah, this is me on ludes with
Speaker 2: all my handmaidown dolls. And then I want to share
Speaker 2: some of my favorite haunted Barbies that I've learned about
Speaker 2: in preparing for this episode. We could go to the
Speaker 2: next slide. This is Chuck E Cheese Barbie. We have
Speaker 2: two of them.
Speaker 1: My god, I know.
Speaker 2: Isn't she great? She's wearing a Canadian tucks to go
Speaker 2: to Chuck E Cheese alone. I can get behind that.
Speaker 2: Next slide is Rosie Rosie o'donald Barbie. You have to
Speaker 2: love it, you have to support it. I have her
Speaker 2: at home. So that's my history with Barbie. Right.
Speaker 1: Should we talk about the movie?
Speaker 2: I guess yeah we should. It's Caitlin's famous recap.
Speaker 1: Oh right, Okay. The Barbie Movie opens on a reference
Speaker 1: to two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, where narrator
Speaker 1: Helen Mirren explains that for a long time, dolls were
Speaker 1: always baby dolls, meaning that the little kids who played
Speaker 1: with them could only ever play it being like mother
Speaker 1: or parent, until Barbie dolls came along and changed everything
Speaker 1: because Barbie she's got money, she's got a house, she's
Speaker 1: got a car, she's got a career.
Speaker 2: They girl boss her right away. I love how it's
Speaker 2: like it starts with this really funny parody and then
Speaker 2: it immediately goes to amercial. You're just like, all right,
Speaker 2: this is what the movie is. I think it's so funny.
Speaker 2: And I've seen so many i don't know, like kind
Speaker 2: of twitter pilled criticisms. They're like, this movie's so corporated,
Speaker 2: it's a commercial. I'm like, yeah, it's a Barbie movie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what are you taking about? And then they're like, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go watch Fast and Furious, which is definitely not
Speaker 2: a commercial.
Speaker 1: All right, Yes, okay, So Barbie she's got it all.
Speaker 1: She can be anything, which means that women can be
Speaker 1: anything and all the problems of feminism and equal rights
Speaker 1: have been solved, or at least that's what the Barbie's
Speaker 1: in Barbie Land think. And so we cut to barbieland
Speaker 1: we meet Margo Robbie as stereotypical Barbie. She's perfect, she
Speaker 1: lives in her dream house. She has so many Barbie friends,
Speaker 1: some of them are played by Isa Ray Alexander Ship,
Speaker 1: Emma Mackie to name a few. That's what I wrote
Speaker 1: down in my notes.
Speaker 2: Brave, thank you, and we already we get the foot
Speaker 2: shot right away and immediately we're just like Quentin Tarantino
Speaker 2: dead in a ditch. I was like, Wow, a footshot
Speaker 2: that is also moving the plot forward.
Speaker 5: This wasn't that hard, wouldn't be because when Quentina what
Speaker 5: did I say when when Quentin Tarantino showed this very
Speaker 5: actor's foot in a different movie.
Speaker 1: Aka, Once upon a Time in Hollywood?
Speaker 2: It was for It was for no reason's whole. Yeah. Anyways,
Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, the Wiki feet community really won
Speaker 2: with that one. We checked Margaret Robbie's Wiki feet on
Speaker 2: stage last night because I just like to keep up
Speaker 2: with the community, and she has the first perfect score
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Wow. Fine, you don't have to pretend
Speaker 2: to care. It's fine. I thought it was interesting and
Speaker 2: we can move on.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So Barbie gets ready for her day.
Speaker 2: She heads to.
Speaker 1: Beach because that's where the that's where the Ken's hang
Speaker 1: out because Ken's job is beach of his beach.
Speaker 2: And we meet.
Speaker 1: Ryan Gosling Ken, who is stereotypical Barbie's boyfriend. We meet
Speaker 1: some other Kens as well as Alan played by Michael
Speaker 1: Sarah shut out Alan. He's an ally.
Speaker 2: He's an Alan and he's an Ally. It's a perfect
Speaker 2: Barbie archival. They're like, remember this guy, he just wore
Speaker 2: Ken's clothes for a couple of years. I didn't know
Speaker 2: about Alan until the movie. Have you heard of him?
Speaker 2: Heard of him?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But now I can never forget. He stands at the
Speaker 2: edge of my bed. I have sleep, per.
Speaker 1: Okay, So Ryan Gosling Ken is very insecure and all
Speaker 1: of his worth is entirely at attached to how much
Speaker 1: Barbie likes him and how much attention she pays to him.
Speaker 1: Then she invites him to her party that night, where
Speaker 1: all the Barbiees and all the Kens are dancing and
Speaker 1: it's a great time until Barbie says, do you guys
Speaker 1: ever think about dying? And everyone's like what?
Speaker 2: But but they do know what dying dying is? Who
Speaker 2: told them?
Speaker 1: Who told them? They also know what genitals are and
Speaker 1: that they don't have them, And that makes you think
Speaker 1: how they know about that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know, I would let Yeah, they're aware
Speaker 2: of a lot of complexity, but they're wilfully ignorant of it. Sure,
Speaker 2: so it is like not too different from our world
Speaker 2: in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So this is the start of some weird
Speaker 1: things happening for Barbie, Like she steps out of her
Speaker 1: high heels and her FeCO flat instead of staying in
Speaker 1: like tiptoe shape. So Barbie goes to Weird Barbie played
Speaker 1: by Kate McKinnon to see what's going on, and Weird
Speaker 1: Barbie tells her that there's a rift between Barbieland and
Speaker 1: the real world and whoever is playing with her in
Speaker 1: the real world must be sad and is projecting that
Speaker 1: sadness onto Barbie. So Barbie has to go into the
Speaker 1: real world to fix it. So she leaves Barbieland via
Speaker 1: various modes of transportation and a very fun montage, but
Speaker 1: she realizes that Ken has stowed away with her and
Speaker 1: wants to come, and she reluctantly lets him tag along.
Speaker 1: Then they arrive in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 5: They have?
Speaker 2: We have, That's why she said that.
Speaker 1: And they notice that things seem to be reversed where
Speaker 1: it's men who have all the power and privilege and
Speaker 1: opportunity in this world and when and have very little
Speaker 1: of those things. Barbie sets out to find the girl
Speaker 1: who's playing with her, and she sees visions of a
Speaker 1: girl playing with Barbie's. Then the girl becomes a teen
Speaker 1: and she has a difficult relationship.
Speaker 2: With her mom.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Ken is walking around Century City and he discovers
Speaker 1: patriarchy and horses.
Speaker 2: I really the images to represent patriarchy are really it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, patriarchy, Three Sylvesters, Still, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan,
Speaker 2: Minnie Fridge, yup yup horse telling a woman to go away,
Speaker 2: And you're like, all right, it's a I really love that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's feminism one on one, but even it resonates,
Speaker 2: I mean, it works. This also begins a split in
Speaker 2: the movie that continues throughout, which is that Ken is
Speaker 2: doing something fun and funny and Barbie is elsewhere crying.
Speaker 2: This Yes, this becomes a big theme through the movie.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I'm like, we gotta we gotta like, cunt
Speaker 2: this lady a break. Oh my god, she's weeping seriously
Speaker 2: and she's not. I'm not judging her for that. Bad
Speaker 2: things keep happening to her. It's too close to home.
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings because it's like, yes, I also
Speaker 1: cry under the patriarchy all the time, but I also
Speaker 1: have fun.
Speaker 2: I also horse. It's like major horse girl erasure when
Speaker 2: you think about it. Yeah, you know why doesn't Barbie
Speaker 2: love horse? Horse? Barbie famously loves horse. Hello, she's a Barbie.
Speaker 2: Barbie loves horse. And then that American girl do all
Speaker 2: loves horse? Wait? Which one, Felicity?
Speaker 1: Someone else said it for three people?
Speaker 2: Okay, we have some bas I was a Kirsten Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she had the loopy braids. Remember I no one
Speaker 1: cares well. Carsten was kind of a mid one.
Speaker 2: I was a kit Kittridge girl, little miss reporter during
Speaker 2: the Great Depression, and then when and then when I
Speaker 2: got really depressed during lockdown, I bought another one. Melody.
Speaker 2: She's a motown singer from the sixties. Whoa These ones
Speaker 2: didn't exist when I was. They know, they exist for
Speaker 2: like children. Now I shouldn't have it, Okay, okay, but
Speaker 2: I love her. She's one of the many watching eyes
Speaker 2: in my own all right.
Speaker 1: So Ken discovers patriarchy and he freaking loves it. Then
Speaker 1: we cut two Mattel Headquarters, where the CEO Mattel, played
Speaker 1: by Will Ferrell, learns that a Barbie and a Ken
Speaker 1: have escaped into the real world. This is overheard by
Speaker 1: Will Ferrell's executive assistant, Gloria played by America Fererra, who
Speaker 1: is like doodling and designing new Barbies such as Irrepressible
Speaker 1: Thoughts of Death Barbie and full body Cellulate Barbie, and
Speaker 1: we're like, hmm, is there a connection here? Then we
Speaker 1: cut back to Barbie and Ken at a school where
Speaker 1: Barbie approaches the girl from her vision. Her name is
Speaker 1: Sasha played by Ariana Greenblat, but rather than the warm
Speaker 1: welcome that Barbie was expecting, Sasha is like, hey, Barbie,
Speaker 1: you've been making girls feel terrible about themselves for decades.
Speaker 2: Is like, dear Mattel, yeah, I have some strong feelings
Speaker 2: about Barbara Millicon Roberts and it's not wrong. And a
Speaker 2: Clippi was like, are you writing a letter?
Speaker 1: H and so she's like, yeah, you make girls feel
Speaker 1: horrible about themselves and you're a fascist.
Speaker 2: And then once again we have Ryan Gosling looking at horses,
Speaker 2: Barbie crying crying, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: So then Ken heads back to Barbieland to teach the
Speaker 1: other Kens what he learned about patriarchy. Meanwhile with Barbie.
Speaker 1: So some guys show up who work at Mattel to
Speaker 1: take her back to Mattel headquarters, but Barbie is uneasy
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. She doesn't trust Will Ferrell, so
Speaker 1: she runs away. As she's escaping, she stumbles upon a
Speaker 1: woman named Ruth played by Rhea Pearlman. They have a
Speaker 1: quick conversation and then Barbie escapes from the Mattel building.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is when it kind of it's kind
Speaker 2: of established that in this world, Rea Pearlman is God
Speaker 2: and that yes really works for me, makes sense. There's
Speaker 2: like that moment where they're doing the Sistine Chapel thing
Speaker 2: where she like passes her the tea cup and you're like, whoa,
Speaker 2: this is getting And then I went and there's all
Speaker 2: these Book of Genesis references. It's a you know, the
Speaker 2: discourse around this movie is a fucking disaster, but you
Speaker 2: can find the clickbait about like is Barbie the Book
Speaker 2: of Genesis? And then I read it and I was
Speaker 2: kind of sweet, Yeah, I was like I get it.
Speaker 2: Barbie Land the Garden of Eating, the you know you
Speaker 2: can get Yeah, I don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 2: but you can see that out on your own if
Speaker 2: you want, okay.
Speaker 1: So Barbie escapes the Matila building and she's picked up
Speaker 1: by Gloria and Sasha because Gloria is Sasha's mother, and
Speaker 1: Barbie realizes that it wasn't Sasha's memories she was seeing,
Speaker 1: it was Gloria's.
Speaker 2: I love this scene because it's a lot of like
Speaker 2: characters connecting an exposition intercut with car commercial. It's really fun.
Speaker 2: It's really like people are like dunking on this scene
Speaker 2: and you're just like, fuck you, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: think it's funny. And Greta Gerwig didn't even direct the
Speaker 2: car shots. She was like, someone else can tink here,
Speaker 2: that's not my problem.
Speaker 1: She's like, who directed Fast and the Furious. We get
Speaker 1: him for a day, all right. So they figure out
Speaker 1: this connection between them. They dodge the Mattel executives and
Speaker 1: they need a place to hide, so the three of
Speaker 1: them go to Barbieland. When they arrive, though, Barbieland is different,
Speaker 1: it's not a place full of women's leadership and empowerment.
Speaker 1: It is now a ken driven society.
Speaker 2: They start with like the scene from Top Gun. They're
Speaker 2: doing Top Gun volume.
Speaker 1: Wait, yeah, all the Barbies are now like subservient to
Speaker 1: the Ken's needs.
Speaker 2: Ken has Stevens's brother is running for president.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 1: Ken has basically just infected barbiland with patriarchy and horses.
Speaker 1: He's turned Barbie's dream house into Ken's Mojo Dojo Casa house.
Speaker 1: He's brainwashed all the Barbies all of that. So Barbie
Speaker 1: is horrified and devastated, and she's crying again.
Speaker 2: She is crying again, and she's and this time there's
Speaker 2: no coming back.
Speaker 1: Yeah no. So eventually she and Gloria and Sasha pay
Speaker 1: a visit to Weird Barbie to figure out what to do.
Speaker 2: I feel like Weird Barbie is kind of like a
Speaker 2: friendly Grinch figure where she lives on the outskirts of
Speaker 2: town at the top of a mountain. It's like if
Speaker 2: you went to the Grinch's house and he was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I know you hate me, but that's all good.
Speaker 1: Weird Barbie is also like Morpheus from the Matrix, like
Speaker 1: here's your two choices, Red Pillar, blue Pill.
Speaker 2: And then I just feel like, I don't know, there's
Speaker 2: a version of this movie to me where like Weird
Speaker 2: Barbie gets like a laser gun and tries to like
Speaker 2: exact revenge on the Barbies that have been talking shit
Speaker 2: about her. I kind of want that for her. She's
Speaker 2: really taking it lying down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, justice for weird Barbie.
Speaker 2: At the end the she's like, can I be the
Speaker 2: Queen of Garbage and and he's he's like, yeah, sure
Speaker 2: you can be garbage.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I want so much more. Yeah for her.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So they all figure out a plan to unbrainwash the
Speaker 1: Barbies and regain control of Barbieland via a series of
Speaker 1: feminist monologues from Gloria and it works. And now the
Speaker 1: Barbies have to get the Kens to turn on each other,
Speaker 1: which they do by making them jealous of each other
Speaker 1: via them playing guitar at the Barbies doing match Bugs
Speaker 1: twenty covers.
Speaker 2: It's too easy, but I laugh every time.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. This is also where we get Ryan
Speaker 1: Gosling singing I'm just Ken. Then the Kens go to
Speaker 1: war with each other. During the battle, like while they're distracted,
Speaker 1: the Barbies go to the White House or the Pink House,
Speaker 1: I guess, and they're like, okay, let's vote to regain constitution.
Speaker 1: So they regain control of Barbieland. And then Barbie and
Speaker 1: Ken have a conversation where for some reason she apologizes
Speaker 1: to him.
Speaker 2: And he says, thanks for saying that. I was like
Speaker 2: you motherfucker. Literally, I that is like a point in
Speaker 2: this movie that I am so baffled by. Want I
Speaker 2: have to like, I have to blame it on studio
Speaker 2: notes in my mind, because it doesn't make sense to
Speaker 2: me that like in the previous scene, we have like
Speaker 2: this brief sort of quiet scene with America Ferrera and
Speaker 2: Margot Robbie and America Frere is like, he is trying
Speaker 2: to take over the government. He stole your house, you
Speaker 2: brainwash your friends, and Margot Robbie Barbie's like, yeah, that's right,
Speaker 2: I don't have to feel bad for him. And then
Speaker 2: in the next thing, she's like, I'm so sorry for
Speaker 2: the perceived slight and then he's like, well, you shouldn't
Speaker 2: have done that. Why I stole your house?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and then on top of that, she goes
Speaker 1: on to do a lot of emotional labor to be like, Ken,
Speaker 1: it's time for you to discover who you are outside
Speaker 1: of your relationship to me, and he's like okay, and
Speaker 1: then again no apology, not even a thank you.
Speaker 2: No, he pays it forward to the other Kens. Yes,
Speaker 2: and she's also I mean she's doing emotional labor for
Speaker 2: him the whole time, like from the first frame he's
Speaker 2: in where he's like, am I cool, She's.
Speaker 1: Like like yes, okay. So then some changes are made to
Speaker 1: barbieland such as weird Barbie is allowed to integrate into
Speaker 1: Barbie society yea. Some of the Kens are also given
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of political power. And then Will Ferrell
Speaker 1: and the other Mattel executives have arrived in barbieland to
Speaker 1: close the portal between the two worlds. I don't even
Speaker 1: know why they're there, but get them out out of
Speaker 1: Barbie Land. And then Sasha is like, well what about Barbie,
Speaker 1: Like what's her ending? And Barbie doesn't really know what
Speaker 1: she wants. But the woman from earlier, Ruth, appears again.
Speaker 1: She turns out to be Ruth Handler, inventor of the
Speaker 1: Barbie Doll Wow, And then she and Barbie have another
Speaker 1: conversation that helps Barbie realize that maybe she's not Barbie anymore,
Speaker 1: and maybe she wants to be where the people are
Speaker 1: she wants to see, wants to see them dancing, okay.
Speaker 2: And then no, no, no, whole song please Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you call them feet? And then we see
Speaker 2: the Quentin Tarantina shot again. It's perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1: And then she becomes human and the movie ends in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles with Gloria and Sasha dropping Barbie off at
Speaker 1: a gynecologist appointment. Not how I would have ended, a
Speaker 1: little bitter.
Speaker 2: Essentialism there, but that's the movie. That's the movie. Wow,
Speaker 2: thanks Caitlin. Yeah, so before we get started, because there
Speaker 2: is some reference to Barbie history here, I'm putting my
Speaker 2: weird hobby to use and I'm going to share a
Speaker 2: little bit of Barbie history with you. So if we
Speaker 2: could get up the Ruth Handler. Okay, so that's the
Speaker 2: real Ruth Handler. She is a co founder of Mattel
Speaker 2: and the creator of Barbie. She was like one of
Speaker 2: the few women working in toys in the nineteen forties
Speaker 2: as well as one of the only Jewish women working
Speaker 2: in toys in the nineteen forties. And she co founded
Speaker 2: Mattel with two other men, her husband Elliott, and a
Speaker 2: guy named Matthew. And they made the name of the
Speaker 2: company a combination of matt and Elliott. No Ruth to
Speaker 2: be seen. They will pay because they died, so did
Speaker 2: she in any case, I'm a Ruth fan. They originally
Speaker 2: make a bunch of other toy products, and she keeps
Speaker 2: pitching this idea of an adult fashioned doll with boobs,
Speaker 2: and male executives are like, boobs on a doll, you're
Speaker 2: a pervert, and so she's not allowed to make it
Speaker 2: for years and years because boobs on a doll, you're
Speaker 2: a pervert. Eventually she sees this German doll called bill
Speaker 2: Lily that has boobs, and then the men are like,
Speaker 2: all right, well, if one man thought it was a
Speaker 2: good idea, I guess we could do it. So they
Speaker 2: make Barbie. They name it after her daughter, Barbara, who's
Speaker 2: in the next slide here. I believe, Yes, there's Barbara,
Speaker 2: there's Barbie. She originally fucking hated Barbie's as is her right,
Speaker 2: She's like, mother, how could you? But yeah, there's like
Speaker 2: a few biographs details given about Ruth and the movie
Speaker 2: that are all true, including I think she says I'm
Speaker 2: a tiny woman with a double misseectomy and tax evation issues.
Speaker 2: All of these are true. She was technically sentenced to
Speaker 2: forty five years in prison. Jordan Belfoort vibe, I know
Speaker 2: and like Jordan Belfort. She was a wealthy white person
Speaker 2: and did not actually serve I think any time in prison.
Speaker 2: She got community service, which is horseshit. And also she
Speaker 2: defrauded rich people, so we were like, well, yeah, in
Speaker 2: any case, she didn't go to jail, but she was
Speaker 2: forced to resign from Mattel. And what she pivoted to
Speaker 2: then is she had had a double misseectomy. She was
Speaker 2: a two time breast cancer survivor and had spoken publicly
Speaker 2: about having self esteem issues after the last of her breasts,
Speaker 2: and so she invented a second really successful product that
Speaker 2: was sort of a I don't know how to describe
Speaker 2: this product correctly, but it was basically like fake boobs
Speaker 2: that you could put on like a bra if you'd
Speaker 2: had a missectomy. You could get it in one, you
Speaker 2: could get into both whatever you needed. And that was
Speaker 2: really successful as well. And yeah, she was, you know, scammer,
Speaker 2: criminal who had two really successful intentions.
Speaker 1: From from Barbie to Brobbie.
Speaker 2: Don't encourage that. No, it was good.
Speaker 1: It was good, and some people liked it because I
Speaker 1: stared at them.
Speaker 2: I was like, I think it's all because we can
Speaker 2: see them. But yeah, there Barbie and Ken re named
Speaker 2: after her kids, Barbara and Kenneth. They both hated the dolls. Uh.
Speaker 2: They got a good settlement when they died anyways. Uh.
Speaker 2: And then Ruth Ruth sort of that her sort of
Speaker 2: end of life reflection was that her whole life had
Speaker 2: revolved around titties and that hadn't been intentional. So she's
Speaker 2: really cool. I'm glad that they included her in the movie,
Speaker 2: and like referenced her is a corporate propaganda absolutely is,
Speaker 2: but she was a cool lady. I was hoping because
Speaker 2: one of the things that I understand was probably necessary
Speaker 2: for the movie to be made, but I find really
Speaker 2: annoying and poorly handled is the CEO character and the
Speaker 2: CEO narrative. I wish that they had instead brought in
Speaker 2: other figures from Barbie history, because there's so many interesting
Speaker 2: people and I want to spotlight one right now. This
Speaker 2: next slide is Kittie Black Perkins. She was the lead
Speaker 2: designer of Barbie for twenty five years from the eighties
Speaker 2: into the early two thousands. She's really cool. I feel
Speaker 2: like she's really under discussed. She designed the first black Barbie.
Speaker 2: She was yeah, and she was also the first black
Speaker 2: Barbie designer at all and sort of was a huge
Speaker 2: advocate for getting more diversity within the Mattal company to
Speaker 2: I think I have a next slide of some of
Speaker 2: her most famous creations. Yes, I definitely had that ball
Speaker 2: on the right. She also did a really cool series
Speaker 2: that I was too young to have encountered, but there.
Speaker 2: It's called The Marvelous World of Shawnee and it was
Speaker 2: the first Barbie collection that was entirely black women of
Speaker 2: different skin tones and hair textures, and it was really
Speaker 2: really cool, and she had this incredible impact on the company.
Speaker 2: And I just wish that instead of a room full
Speaker 2: of men, we had, you know, brought people like Katie
Speaker 2: Black Perkins into the mix, because she is a really
Speaker 2: important part of Barbie history and we don't really see
Speaker 2: her or many prominent characters who are not white in
Speaker 2: this movie. And so that's that brings us James Barbie
Speaker 2: history section. Wow. Thank you, Wow. A round of a pause,
Speaker 2: because it's like it's giving hostage situations. All right. I
Speaker 2: think if you go to the next slide, I think
Speaker 2: we're back in the dream house. Yeah, here we are.
Speaker 1: Yes, No, but you just touched on something that is
Speaker 1: a big part of the discussion around this movie. So
Speaker 1: the movie came out, people watched it, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why I had to people.
Speaker 2: Watch explain that and then and then what happened. But
Speaker 2: then and then and then people had some thoughts about it.
Speaker 2: But did they write them down?
Speaker 1: They did, and then they also said them out loud,
Speaker 1: oh thank you, and a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: the criticism around this movie was it's feminism, one oh one,
Speaker 1: it's it's white feminism the movie. We need a more
Speaker 1: nuanced and intersectional approach to discussing feminism in media, and
Speaker 1: that is very, very true. I don't disagree with that
Speaker 1: at all, but I have mixed feelings about it because
Speaker 1: the world, most of the people in it, I think,
Speaker 1: still need a lesson, like a feminist one oh one lesson.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was just like, Okay, pretty cool that a enormous
Speaker 1: blockbuster movie with a huge budget, huge studio backing, about
Speaker 1: a very famous product tackled patriarchy and examined feminism. The
Speaker 1: big problem with it, yes, is that it has like
Speaker 1: sort of the facade of inclusion because of some of
Speaker 1: the characters. But those characters are very much on the
Speaker 1: periphery and it still centers the like epitome of like
Speaker 1: Western beauty, standard whiteness, blonde hair, thinness, like all the stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's peepee poo poos what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we feel pretty similarly about this. I
Speaker 2: feel like it's having to hold a bunch of truths
Speaker 2: at the same time, which, if you're having a discussion online,
Speaker 2: is famously not possible. It's like, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: someone's threatening to kill you, you know, but no, no
Speaker 2: one threatened to kill me over the Barbie movie because
Speaker 2: I kept my mouth shutting. Wow, I minded my own business. No,
Speaker 2: I think that. Yeah, I agree that. I think that
Speaker 2: a lot of the as I was like, going back
Speaker 2: through my knowledge of Barbie history, I feel like a
Speaker 2: lot of the issues with the movie with inclusion are
Speaker 2: the same issues that Barbie has with inclusion. Right where
Speaker 2: there has been progress, there have been attempts, there has
Speaker 2: been motion forward, and like the company has to some extent,
Speaker 2: taken notes about I think most recently, there was a
Speaker 2: discussion around ableism with Barbie's and there has been discussions
Speaker 2: around race with Barbie. There's been discussions around body types
Speaker 2: with Barbie, and it's slowly changed over time, but it
Speaker 2: still always centers the thin, blonde, white woman, and I
Speaker 2: think that that's also what this movie is doing. And
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled that we have I think it's like I'm
Speaker 2: thrilled that we have so many amazing barbies, and I'm
Speaker 2: also frustrated that we don't get more of them, you know.
Speaker 2: But in the same way, I think you're totally right.
Speaker 2: The way that people have talked about this movie feels disingenuous,
Speaker 2: in the same way that, like I was saying earlier
Speaker 2: that people were like, this movie's a commercial. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: not like Iron Man, which is an indie sleeper hit,
Speaker 2: you know, Like just it just feels really disingenuous the
Speaker 2: way people have approached the discussion where it's like I
Speaker 2: need to find a righteous reason to hate this, right,
Speaker 2: It's like you just don't like it, and that's okay,
Speaker 2: Like not everyone has to. I also feel like the
Speaker 2: reverse argument and a lot of the like we're not
Speaker 2: going to get into the Oscars discourse because this episode
Speaker 2: doesn't come out for a month and hopefully it will
Speaker 2: be very dated. But like the way that you know,
Speaker 2: like white feminists online will defend the most wealthy white
Speaker 2: woman in the world against her will. You're just like,
Speaker 2: what is this? Yeah, what am I looking at? But
Speaker 2: in any case, I do, I do feel like it's
Speaker 2: there are really valid criticisms to be made of this movie.
Speaker 2: And also when we're talking about this movie as like
Speaker 2: a blockbuster, which it is, the conversation is really pointedly different,
Speaker 2: Like no one's having conversations like this around any other
Speaker 2: blockbusterory that I can remember, which I think is cool.
Speaker 2: It's different, But so there's also a lot of bullshit
Speaker 2: to sift through.
Speaker 1: This is the fourteenth highest grossing movie of all time.
Speaker 1: If you look at the thirteen above it and probably
Speaker 1: the one hundred below it, Like none of those movies
Speaker 1: even acknowledge sexism or patriarchy or any of those things.
Speaker 1: They probably all or most of them have a male protagonist,
Speaker 1: Like they're not. Most of them are directed and written
Speaker 1: by men as well. They're not having the same conversation
Speaker 1: this movie is doing. And as we always say, it's
Speaker 1: not any one movie's responsibility to like change the world
Speaker 1: or be the be all end all thing when it
Speaker 1: comes to discussing feminism. But the movie it missed many
Speaker 1: opportunities to be more inclusive, to have more meaningful inclusion,
Speaker 1: because again, you know, there's a Barbie played by a transactor,
Speaker 1: hard enough. There is a fat Barbie played by Sharon Rooney.
Speaker 1: There is a disabled Barbie who uses a wheelchair. She's
Speaker 1: played by Grace Harvey.
Speaker 2: But we don't get to know her at all. She
Speaker 2: has no lines. Really, I think that like we don't
Speaker 2: get to really know the Barbies. We get to meet
Speaker 2: a lot of them, but outside of Marco, Robbie Barbie
Speaker 2: and Weird Barbie, you don't really get a distinct personality
Speaker 2: for anybody, which is not true of the Kens. And
Speaker 2: that is like my big issue with this movie. And
Speaker 2: I really really like this movie. Like if we're just
Speaker 2: going like Romp, can I watch it? Yes, yes, a
Speaker 2: million times?
Speaker 1: Tend out a tent on Caitlin's Rambo either it's the best.
Speaker 2: But yeah, when it comes to like, well, who has
Speaker 2: most of the funny moments and who and which group
Speaker 2: has the more distinctive personalities and things to do, it's
Speaker 2: the Ken's by a mile. Like I am never not
Speaker 2: going to be frustrated that the Barbies don't get their
Speaker 2: own song, like the Ken's get this, and like I'm
Speaker 2: just ken in my opinion, fucking rips. It's so good
Speaker 2: it does. It was all my Spotify rapped and that's
Speaker 2: so embarrassing, and and was it number one? I don't know,
Speaker 2: but like that was so cool. And they got this
Speaker 2: big studio like old school ballet move they got it,
Speaker 2: like all this stuff, and meanwhile, Barbie is crying somewhere
Speaker 2: and we're just like this fucking sucks. I read somewhere
Speaker 2: that there was an original Uh there was a Barbie. Uh.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a song because Marco
Speaker 2: Robbie I don't think sings, but there was originally. I
Speaker 2: only saw it written as like there was originally a
Speaker 2: fart opera? What what words did you say? I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was shot, but I was reading a
Speaker 2: lot of I listened to the director's commentary for this movie,
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah I did. I didn't learn very much
Speaker 2: the two things. It was mostly Greta GIRWGG being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: so then this happens. I'm like I could just watch
Speaker 2: the movie, but no. Greta Gerwy said there was originally
Speaker 2: a fart opera that she was planning for the Barbies
Speaker 2: because they were like Discovery. I don't know if it
Speaker 2: was in the real world or Barbie world, but they
Speaker 2: figure out what farts are and then there's a Barbie
Speaker 2: fart opera. Okay, So then I guess that she was
Speaker 2: like and no one thought that was funny, so they
Speaker 2: didn't end up in the movie. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: know how I feel about that. I guess I would have,
Speaker 2: you know, either way, the Barbies don't get a big number, yeah,
Speaker 2: and the kNs do.
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say, fart opera, what is this
Speaker 1: a Shrek movie?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: The other thing I learned from the Greta Gerwig commentary
Speaker 2: that I really loved was that, you know, like there's
Speaker 2: a moment where, uh, usually it's dual lipa Mermaid, but
Speaker 2: then suddenly it's John Cena Mermaid. I don't think Greta
Speaker 2: Gerwig knows who John Cena is because he comes on
Speaker 2: screen and she goes, oh, John Senna, and she said
Speaker 2: John Senna came in for the day, and that was
Speaker 2: so lovely. I had such a great time directing John Senna,
Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, it has not reached her.
Speaker 2: But I'm just like, yeah, I guess, like in the
Speaker 2: Gerwig bomb boc Households. Has anyone ever been like, let's
Speaker 2: turn on WWE, I don't know it missed her? I really,
Speaker 2: oh John Senna, no one ever tell her.
Speaker 1: They haven't watched Fast and the Furious eight and above
Speaker 1: which one did see your peer in for the first time?
Speaker 2: Nine? Oh wow, some people being ready.
Speaker 1: This is kind of you know, never underestimate your audience
Speaker 1: if it's not Hobs and Shaw. I don't care, but yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think like one of my big criticisms of the movie
Speaker 2: is that the bar don't get to have as much
Speaker 2: fun as they can see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and again, like all of the emotional
Speaker 1: labor that Barbie is doing with Ken at the end,
Speaker 1: and there is a point where Barbie is just less
Speaker 1: active as a character in the back half of the movie,
Speaker 1: but Gloria and Sasha sort of take over as the
Speaker 1: more active female characters at.
Speaker 2: Least and weird Barbie, I feel like the three of
Speaker 2: them when when which Yeah, I didn't know how to
Speaker 2: feel about that, but I'm like, oh, when I've been
Speaker 2: having a depressive episode and three friends are like, all right,
Speaker 2: we're gonna We're gonna make sure that they don't shut
Speaker 2: your power off. You know it is nice. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 2: so she's really really active for the for the front
Speaker 2: half of the movie, but once she hits that wall,
Speaker 2: not as much, but she comes back at the end,
Speaker 2: she rallies.
Speaker 1: She does come back and at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it is a movie about like a woman having a
Speaker 1: self discovery.
Speaker 2: It's literally it's a she's a woman on the verge
Speaker 2: of a nervous breakdown. Yeah. Wow, And I here's my
Speaker 2: other little thing. Okay, I think we should talk about
Speaker 2: Gloria and Sasha because I think their dynamic is under
Speaker 2: explored but also interesting. Sasha specifically, I feel like it's
Speaker 2: very Okay, here's my Stanley Kubrick. I think I'll tell you. Okay,
Speaker 2: I know I have a master's degreen screenwriting.
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 2: What I would never bring it up. Try me, Okay,
Speaker 2: Sasha's story can be boiled down to how I learned
Speaker 2: to stop worrying and love the MATEL Corporation that is
Speaker 2: Stanley kruperg gets okay, yes, because it's I think that
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting dynamic between the mother and daughter.
Speaker 2: It's frustratingly only like I think, well done. For about
Speaker 2: ten minutes towards the end of the movie where when
Speaker 2: Barbie gets depressed, you know, Sasha and Gloria. I just
Speaker 2: want to keep saying America Ferarra, Sasha defends her mother
Speaker 2: when Barbie is like you're useless or whatever the fuck
Speaker 2: she says, and I liked that. I don't really know
Speaker 2: what their conflict is. I feel like it's just sort
Speaker 2: of pulling from like if you've been a teenage femme,
Speaker 2: it's probably a dynamic you've had with your mom, and
Speaker 2: so you're just it's just stop. I don't like the
Speaker 2: movie Tantanic. I like naval history. Up. I'm a bar Storian.
Speaker 2: I'm not horny. Stop up. That's kind of their Yeah,
Speaker 2: But I really like those moments between them where they're
Speaker 2: like learning to understand each other. She has to admit
Speaker 2: that her mom is cool, and then they go back,
Speaker 2: but they do mostly exist in relation to Barbie as
Speaker 2: like Barbie's assistant. And then America Ferra develops the Weapon
Speaker 2: of mass Destruction, which is her speech.
Speaker 1: And I don't even have the energy to really go
Speaker 1: into the speech and how it is like not very good,
Speaker 1: but go back and listen to it.
Speaker 2: It's like, here's what I'll say about this fee, I
Speaker 2: feel like the speech is I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: hate the speech. I was well performed. It was well performed.
Speaker 2: The words, however, I would have rewritten it. I didn't
Speaker 2: mind the words. I feel like there was a lot missing,
Speaker 2: which like the big thing that for this movie in general,
Speaker 2: I feel like it attempts to address patriarchy in certain ways,
Speaker 2: but patriarchy is just like one element of the evils
Speaker 2: of the world. Like we see this movie attempt to
Speaker 2: address patriarchy while not addressing either white supremacy or capitalism,
Speaker 2: which are the main things that intersect with it. So
Speaker 2: I feel like the moments in this movie that feel
Speaker 2: hollow is because those two other things are being very
Speaker 2: pointedly ignored, because if you're addressing white supremacy, then you
Speaker 2: can't have mostly white leading characters, and if you address capitalism,
Speaker 2: you can't have the Barbie movie. And so it feels
Speaker 2: weirdly like I I appreciate elements of the like attempt
Speaker 2: to boil patriarchy down to a simple and effective speech,
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know, I could take her
Speaker 2: leave parts of it. But I also I saw this
Speaker 2: movie in theaters a couple of times, and there was
Speaker 2: always someone bawling their eyes out, and so I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to take that from people like I.
Speaker 2: You know, the moms were really in their bag with that.
Speaker 2: My mom was My mom was sobbing. My mom was
Speaker 2: sobbing during that, and I was like, Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2: And then you're embarrassing me in the movie. And then
Speaker 2: at the end, I don't think I've told you this.
Speaker 2: And then at the end there's another attempted profound movement moment.
Speaker 2: The speech worked on my mom. The second profound moment,
Speaker 2: she was mad. It was at the end when Rhea
Speaker 2: Perlman says we mothers stand still, so are we can
Speaker 2: stand back and see how my mom was like, I
Speaker 2: would never stand still. I was, It's like, that's true.
Speaker 2: I've certainly never seen you stand still, even when I've
Speaker 2: specifically requested it. And she's like, I think that's so regressive.
Speaker 2: You should say that on bechdelcast, which I agree with.
Speaker 2: I think that that line genuinely sucks. The speech was
Speaker 2: a hit or miss for me. I appreciate that it
Speaker 2: resonated for people. Did it need to be published in
Speaker 2: the newspaper? No, that's so goofy and embarrassing. And I
Speaker 2: don't know. So many things that are embarrassing to me
Speaker 2: about this movie involved the reaction to it versus like
Speaker 2: what I'm actually watching. I don't know. Yes, I feel like, okay,
Speaker 2: this is super super picky. But the America Freire speech,
Speaker 2: for some reason, I feels like fifteen percent. It goes
Speaker 2: like fifteen percent longer than you expect it to, and
Speaker 2: I kind of want her to, like I feel like
Speaker 2: there's a good sketch in like her pausing and then
Speaker 2: continuing and being like, you can play one video game,
Speaker 2: but you can't play two video games. You can you
Speaker 2: can go to CVS, but you don't have an extra
Speaker 2: care card. Like it's just like because it's like such
Speaker 2: a you get like in that cadence, you can say
Speaker 2: fucking whatever, and my mom would be weeping, Like you
Speaker 2: can go to McDonald's, but you can't get a happy
Speaker 2: meal because you're a grown up and no one respects you.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so true.
Speaker 2: It's so true. No, it's not true. You can get
Speaker 2: a happy mind do it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, okay, so uh talk about oh hi, hello,
Speaker 2: someone's getting parasocial in the friend, you saw, you saw
Speaker 2: an opportunity and you see stick. Yes, I did notice that.
Speaker 1: I think Gloria's name is only spoken one in the
Speaker 1: whole movie, and it's in passing. Yeah, yeah, so the
Speaker 1: whole I was like, what is her character's name? Because
Speaker 1: I missed it every single time I all, like four
Speaker 1: or five times I've watched this movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's fair. I mean I feel like that also
Speaker 2: speaks to like how even though Gloria and Sasha are
Speaker 2: prominent characters, you don't actually know that much about them,
Speaker 2: and a lot of what you know about them is
Speaker 2: just based on what you understand about parent child dynamics,
Speaker 2: Like so much is not actually there. It's just like
Speaker 2: relying on what you may have experienced to like sort
Speaker 2: of fill in the gaps of what might be there.
Speaker 2: I do love her due lingo husband and that's America,
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And that's America Prayer's real husband. Yeah, yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: his name is whatever, who cares? I did write it down.
Speaker 1: But you would never support a man, So it's just
Speaker 1: dad exactly. Also when he says which has to be
Speaker 1: a reference to God to kick out? Yes, absolutely, Well,
Speaker 1: while we're talking about our favorite jokes, when Will Ferrell
Speaker 1: CEO is like if humans went to barbie Land, or
Speaker 1: if Barbies came into the real world, things would happen
Speaker 1: beyond what your wildest dreams could ever imagine. And then
Speaker 1: Jamie Jamie Demetrio, best person alive. I love him so much.
Speaker 1: If he's listening, marry me. Stath LEDs Flats is the
Speaker 1: best show ever anyone's seen, it.
Speaker 2: Said the single wo Meanwhile, forty percent of this audience
Speaker 2: is seen every Fast and the Furious. Just collecting data.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Jamie Demetrio hot, He replies to like, oh, what
Speaker 1: could we possibly imagine? And he says, a podcast hosted
Speaker 1: by two wise trees.
Speaker 2: Podcast?
Speaker 1: What is the Bechtel Cast podcast? But a podcast hosted
Speaker 1: by two wise trees? If you were a tree, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what tree would you be?
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know tree kind.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you all of them.
Speaker 2: Okay, we got willows, we got a oaky, we got
Speaker 2: birch palm m hm. Oh you're roun elm whoa apple tree?
Speaker 2: Don't help her anyway? Oky orange. Okay, really quick, while
Speaker 2: we're on the subjects of the CEO, because we referenced
Speaker 2: this earlier, but I really think like and again, I
Speaker 2: fully understand that this movie was signed off by Mattel,
Speaker 2: so of course I'm sure they had a million notes.
Speaker 2: I'd be really curious in the future. I just would
Speaker 2: love to have more oral histories of studio notes in general,
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of the time the writers
Speaker 2: and directors absorb a lot of criticism becau because it's
Speaker 2: their name there. But there's a million shadowy figures that
Speaker 2: influence what ends up there. And I like when anytime
Speaker 2: I've written an episode of TV, like there's been a
Speaker 2: whole scene that you're like, weird, what is that? And
Speaker 2: yet I wrote it. You know, it's just like there
Speaker 2: are so many people involved. So I would be curious
Speaker 2: how the CEO character evolved because I think that casting
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell feels really intentional there, right, because yeh, if
Speaker 2: you're doing a CEO as a villain, you don't cast
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell. If you cast Will Ferrell, it's because you
Speaker 2: want him to seem kind of like, oh, well, he's
Speaker 2: not doing the right thing, but he's kind of hapless
Speaker 2: and he's kind of like whatever, Like he'll figure out
Speaker 2: a goofball. He's a goofball. And I think that that
Speaker 2: is a really pernicious way to frame corporate America.
Speaker 1: Well, so didn't he play basically the same exact character
Speaker 1: in the Lego movie.
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, in the Greta Gerwick commentary spoiler alert, she did
Speaker 2: say something helpful. Okay, she when he first comes on screen,
Speaker 2: and she says the CEO character, he's not evil. He's
Speaker 2: like a really enthusiastic golden retriever. He really believes that
Speaker 2: sparkles lead to female empowerment and he's just gonna stick
Speaker 2: with that. And I hate that. I hate that so much.
Speaker 2: I think that there is like attempted commentary within there.
Speaker 2: And I am like to give this movie as much
Speaker 2: credit like as I can. It says more and jabs
Speaker 2: at more than you would expect it to, where it's
Speaker 2: like they do reference, like we have not had many
Speaker 2: female executives really ever, and there are like a number
Speaker 2: of jokes to that effect. But also it just sort
Speaker 2: of makes the capitalism element feel like goofy and harmless
Speaker 2: while we're attacking patriarchy and white supremacy we don't talk
Speaker 2: about and so it's just like all I mean, I know,
Speaker 2: and one movie cannot do everything. But because this movie
Speaker 2: is so honed in on patriarchy. The way it treats
Speaker 2: other elements feels kind of dissonant and weird. But it's
Speaker 2: also like, if it didn't treat it that way, would
Speaker 2: the movie exist. I don't know, because something something comes.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the.
Speaker 1: Thing about presenting a like anti patriarchy argument in a
Speaker 1: movie packaged in this very like pink, hyper feminine Barbie package.
Speaker 2: I mean it makes it.
Speaker 1: Does it make it very palatable and fun? Yes, But
Speaker 1: again it it just ends up ignoring a lot of
Speaker 1: things and creating cognitive dissonance.
Speaker 2: But I do like how hyperfeminine, like hyperfeminine aesthetics are
Speaker 2: like inherent to this world, and I like, I really
Speaker 2: do like that, and I like, I feel like the
Speaker 2: pictures you see of people who go to see the
Speaker 2: movie reflect that, where it's like permission to be hyper feminine.
Speaker 2: And that was like one of the elements of Stereotypical
Speaker 2: Barbie that I really liked, where you're presented stereotypical Barbie
Speaker 2: along with all of your assumptions about her, which is
Speaker 2: criticisms that have haunted Barbie, some rightful, some were projected
Speaker 2: over the course of over half a century, where like
Speaker 2: she is brainless, she's a bimbo. She's not smart, and
Speaker 2: like associating hyper femininity with not being smart, and it
Speaker 2: seems like stereotypical Barbie has like inferred this about herself
Speaker 2: because she's always like, well, I'm not one of the
Speaker 2: job Barbie's, so they should probably figure it out. And
Speaker 2: she is this hyper feminine Barbie and then over time
Speaker 2: she figures out like I am smart, I am capable
Speaker 2: of growth. And I really liked that, is like having
Speaker 2: a hyper feminine character who is smart and not playing
Speaker 2: into the tropes that we're used to seeing, because I
Speaker 2: feel like it truly is like there's a lot of
Speaker 2: times where you see a woman in pink and you're
Speaker 2: trained to think like bimbo, not smart, not going to
Speaker 2: contribute very much, and that's silly even though pink's not
Speaker 2: really my color. Wow, could have fooled me. Well.
Speaker 1: I feel like we had a very similar discussion on
Speaker 1: the Legally Blonde episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I also had Ellwood's Barbie.
Speaker 1: What that's the thing too, is Barbie just like Lego,
Speaker 1: where every property that exists is Lego, and also everything
Speaker 1: in person is also Barbie Barbie.
Speaker 2: I feel like, does a weirder job of it, where
Speaker 2: it's like things that you're like, oh, that's awesome, and
Speaker 2: then you're like why Rosie o'donald, like why cheese? Recently,
Speaker 2: I think she'll be she'll be at my house. I
Speaker 2: recently got Ida b Wells Barbie, like they make historical
Speaker 2: women barbies too. I have Sally Ryde Barbie. We're adding
Speaker 2: Ida to the mix, you know, running out of the
Speaker 2: shelf space. I just have too many. I don't know whatever.
Speaker 2: I've never heard of John Sanna. Oh my gosh, we've
Speaker 2: never We have yet to talk about the DJ College situation.
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's in the movie. Is he
Speaker 2: a ken? No, he's selling the kens? Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Oh guys. I almost backed off because I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: it's DJ College. Another one the guy who's like this,
Speaker 2: he's in the movie.
Speaker 1: The guy's like these mojo dojo castles off the shelves,
Speaker 1: you guys, and also a celebrity who famously hates eating pussy.
Speaker 2: They're just like, a, this is all we could ride
Speaker 2: a fucking dissertation on this. Oh my god. I'm like,
Speaker 2: my I I just had a surge of adrenaline. But
Speaker 2: I was like I know who DJ coll It is. There. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they he had a he had a cameo, and I
Speaker 2: also love that during that Greta Gerwig absolutely does not
Speaker 2: know who he is because she she was silent through
Speaker 2: that whole scene and then started talking.
Speaker 1: A few other fun cameos though, Annie Mamelo has a
Speaker 1: little cameo. We've got Emerald fanel Is Midge. Okay, where
Speaker 1: are the closest? Burn will come to the Oscars. Also,
Speaker 1: the woman at the bus stop is legendary costume designer
Speaker 1: and Roth she's designing Cowboy. Yes, she did Midnight Cowboy,
Speaker 1: Cold Mountain, Mama Mia okay, and then one Oscars for
Speaker 1: English Patient and Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Bottom?
Speaker 2: Are you right bottom down? Twice?
Speaker 1: No, but I said the first bottom as though there
Speaker 1: was more to that title, and there isn't.
Speaker 2: You're doing We're doing great, We're doing ground and it's
Speaker 2: the Ludese. I'm telling you Hi again.
Speaker 1: Barbie's it's future Barbie Caitlin and future Barbie Jamie.
Speaker 2: Wow, we're basically the astronaut barbiees. I know that astronauts
Speaker 2: don't time travel, but I in my mind they kind
Speaker 2: of basically do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever seen Interstellar. I mean it's kind
Speaker 1: of like that.
Speaker 2: Have I ever seen interest on it? Have we ever
Speaker 2: covered it on the show? No? So no, I haven't
Speaker 2: seen it. Uh huh. Anyways, Welcome to the Future. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So this was the point in the show where I
Speaker 2: just want to share with you that we would do
Speaker 2: our fun like we did a live game where we
Speaker 2: had Barbies from the Barbie Movie and we would do
Speaker 2: kind of just a series of immaculately improvised scenarios.
Speaker 1: Oh, such good improv.
Speaker 2: We brought up some audience members to do it with us,
Speaker 2: and they were just as good at improv as we were,
Speaker 2: and sometimes better because we're pretty mid at it.
Speaker 1: Wow, can't believe you said that.
Speaker 2: We were also set it on stage. But it was
Speaker 2: a blast. So but you know, obviously that doesn't quite
Speaker 2: translate to audios. So in lieu of that, you the
Speaker 2: listener listening for free will be deprived of fun and
Speaker 2: subjected to further discourse because, of course, in the live show,
Speaker 2: you know, time is limited, so we didn't get to
Speaker 2: quite everything that we wanted to.
Speaker 1: So, and that's why you should come to the live
Speaker 1: shows when we do have them, because there are segments
Speaker 1: that we tend to cut out when we release the
Speaker 1: actual episode on our feed because either they just don't
Speaker 1: translate very well to the audio medium, or we just
Speaker 1: want to give our audience, our attendees to the live
Speaker 1: shows a little special treats. So it's all the more
Speaker 1: reason to come to our live shows when you can.
Speaker 2: The shows are fun. Yeah, I just wanted to start
Speaker 2: by I know that we had a section in the
Speaker 2: live show where we talked about Ruth Handler and sort
Speaker 2: of the history of Barbie as well as Kitty Black Perkins.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to add a few extra things that
Speaker 2: we didn't have time to talk about in the show,
Speaker 2: just because I thought it was interesting that also connects
Speaker 2: to the idea of mothers and motherhood within the context
Speaker 2: of this movie. Because I and I know that we're
Speaker 2: like not supposed to do this, so please don't yell
Speaker 2: at me. I bravely read a book, Jamie. How could you?
Speaker 2: I know? But I really, I mean, I genuinely really
Speaker 2: am interested in dull history. I really am. And so
Speaker 2: I got this book from the library. And if you
Speaker 2: are not a subscriber, not a subscriber to the library,
Speaker 2: but like, how if you have a library card. You're
Speaker 2: able to access free books and movies through your library card.
Speaker 2: So I borrowed the book Barbie and Ruth, The Story
Speaker 2: of the World's most Famous Doll and the Woman who
Speaker 2: created Her by Robin Gerber, just to sort of bolster
Speaker 2: my knowledge about what the actual story of Barbie is
Speaker 2: because understandably in the movie, and this isn't even a criticism,
Speaker 2: like the movie is not about the history of Barbie.
Speaker 2: I think the fact that Ruth Handler is even included
Speaker 2: was more than I was expecting, honestly true. But I
Speaker 2: think that what we didn't get the chance to talk
Speaker 2: about in the live show was how she is presented
Speaker 2: as a god figure and also a maternal god figure,
Speaker 2: because she is presented to us like and it's like
Speaker 2: not hidden at all, that like she is basically the
Speaker 2: god to Barbie's Jesus. Sure, and that, as we'll talk
Speaker 2: about in a little bit, like is explicitly stated by
Speaker 2: Greta Gerberg, is like she know bomb Back, knew that
Speaker 2: they were doing it. I think that that's a really
Speaker 2: weird but like pretty interesting thing to include in your
Speaker 2: Barbie movie. Yeah, but the real life Ruth Handler, what
Speaker 2: I think I think it just sort of speaks to
Speaker 2: how we project, not just I mean the real life
Speaker 2: Ruth Handler was a mother to Barbara aka Barbie. But
Speaker 2: I think that, like we've talked about in a lot
Speaker 2: of movies, that like it has to do with this
Speaker 2: sort of sis woman divine prophecy where not only will
Speaker 2: you be a mother, but you will mothers are inherently
Speaker 2: good and mothers are you know, inherently good at being
Speaker 2: mothers when that is often not true and also a
Speaker 2: ridiculous expectation because it is not a divine prophecy, you're
Speaker 2: a person. And I think that that is very well
Speaker 2: demonstrated in real life Ruth Handler's life, who had consistently
Speaker 2: a very very contentious relationship with specifically her daughter, but
Speaker 2: both of her children, and I think you know, by
Speaker 2: many accounts, she was an incredible businesswoman. She had a
Speaker 2: lot of growth throughout her life where she did not
Speaker 2: consider herself to be a feminist and in fact like
Speaker 2: avoided friendships with women for much of her life. And
Speaker 2: it wasn't until her later years, when she was making
Speaker 2: prosthetic breasts for breast cancer survivors, that she really felt
Speaker 2: connected to women and to just even the concept of feminism,
Speaker 2: and you know, had a period of her life where
Speaker 2: she was reflecting and like reading feminist theory and being like, wait,
Speaker 2: have men been awful to me most of my life?
Speaker 2: And you know, yes, And to the point where something
Speaker 2: that really made me laugh was that this doesn't exist
Speaker 2: in the sort of more overarching histories. But when she
Speaker 2: finally when she started her company that was just hers.
Speaker 2: Her husband wasn't you know involved in her company for
Speaker 2: the prosthetic breast was called Ruth ten And so she
Speaker 2: finally got her name in the company my girl boss hero.
Speaker 2: But in any case, she had a very difficult relationship
Speaker 2: with her children and was not quote unquote the natural
Speaker 2: mother that we see presented, who is inherently, you know,
Speaker 2: like just knows exactly what to do. And I just
Speaker 2: thought that that was worth mentioning, even in the context
Speaker 2: because of how she's presented where and they are willing
Speaker 2: to you know, sort of cop to. Maybe it's not
Speaker 2: the best phrase, I but like cop to certain like
Speaker 2: flaws that were public, such as being sentenced to a
Speaker 2: forty five year prison sentence and having had anseectomy, but
Speaker 2: still feel the need to be like, but shit, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day she's a mother, when in
Speaker 2: fact that was like a part of Freeth Handler's life
Speaker 2: that was very challenging.
Speaker 1: Also, and we mentioned this in the live show too,
Speaker 1: but the line where the Ruth Handler character at the
Speaker 1: end of the movie says something like we mothers stand
Speaker 1: still so our daughters can see how far they've come
Speaker 1: or whatever the line is, and how it just rubbed
Speaker 1: a lot of people the wrong way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like that again, it just like applies
Speaker 2: this prescriptive role of like deference and yeah, humbleness.
Speaker 1: And becoming a mother means that you surrender other parts
Speaker 1: of your life.
Speaker 2: And stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other the thing that I found interesting about Ruth
Speaker 1: Handler's like journey with feminism is that, from my understanding,
Speaker 1: she created Barbie, or she at least viewed Barbie as
Speaker 1: an alternative to baby dolls, something that was like aspirational,
Speaker 1: something that would help girls or whoever was playing with them.
Speaker 1: And that's a separate issue I have with this movie
Speaker 1: where it feels it's very much like, well, the only
Speaker 1: people who play with dolls are girls. But anyway, that's
Speaker 1: a I'll get to that later. But anyway, she viewed
Speaker 1: Barbie dolls as an aspirational way to help girls envision
Speaker 1: their lives outside of being a mother, which, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, that was the expectation that was foisted onto
Speaker 1: women at the time Barbie was created, and Barbie dolls
Speaker 1: were an opportunity to allow girls to see that they
Speaker 1: could grow up and have a career and they didn't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to adhere to that kind of rigid societal expectation,
Speaker 1: which was a pretty radical idea at that time, right,
Speaker 1: So I appreciate that about Barbie dolls and about like
Speaker 1: Ruth Handler's vision for them.
Speaker 2: I did too, and I feel like, you know, the
Speaker 2: way that I even though like when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: I forget if I mentioned it in this, but but yeah,
Speaker 2: that I had like a moment where, you know, I
Speaker 2: loved playing with Barbies and then felt self conscious about
Speaker 2: enjoying it, and then realized that it is in fact
Speaker 2: quite stressful to have an aspirational doll, even though you
Speaker 2: are projecting your hopes and desires through them in a
Speaker 2: way that feels very fun and dynamic and cool in
Speaker 2: the way that just being a kid is. The body
Speaker 2: stuff does get to you over time, and certainly I
Speaker 2: wrote a strongly worded letter to Mattel being like, listen up, boys,
Speaker 2: my boobs are not going to come in, I've recently realized,
Speaker 2: and like, but just truly like the very you know,
Speaker 2: entrenched white Western beauty standards that Barbie's been rightfully criticized
Speaker 2: over a period of years. We talked about this during
Speaker 2: the show, but that I didn't really understand, and I
Speaker 2: think that that is sort of a testament to the
Speaker 2: power of Barbie two, that I didn't really know as
Speaker 2: a kid that dolls were not aspirational, and like, I
Speaker 2: never had any interest in baby dolls, and so I think,
Speaker 2: like it's almost this like cool, frustrating, but new problem
Speaker 2: to deconstruct, Well, what does the aspirational doll say about
Speaker 2: what I should be aspiring to? But the fact that
Speaker 2: that didn't exist, that problem didn't exist before because you
Speaker 2: were not supposed to aspire to anything, and like, wow, right,
Speaker 2: I also just wanted to touch on really quick because
Speaker 2: it's Ken history. Yes, Ruth Handler's the Handlers. Elliot and
Speaker 2: Ruth had two children, Barbara and Kenneth, Barbie and Ken
Speaker 2: and Ken. I feel like he is not I mean
Speaker 2: just says in the world of the Barbie movie under discussed,
Speaker 2: under examined in real life as well. Ken Handler seemed
Speaker 2: like a truly wonderful person who so who eventually unfortunately
Speaker 2: he passed away of AIDS fairly young. I think it
Speaker 2: was in his forties, in the late eighties, early nineties,
Speaker 2: And so there is sort of this whole. I mean,
Speaker 2: both children, Barbara and Kenneth different than the dolls, I think,
Speaker 2: appreciated what their parents were trying to do, but resented
Speaker 2: how it sort of haunted them right where Ken was
Speaker 2: teased at school for being like, do you just have
Speaker 2: a lump? You know, goofy shit like that, But if
Speaker 2: you're a kid, that's humiliating and it feels horrible. And Barbara, interestingly,
Speaker 2: her issue with her mom that she reflected on later
Speaker 2: was that she resented her mom for having a career
Speaker 2: because it meant like, quote unquote, her mom was different,
Speaker 2: which of course is entrenched in privilege the reasons that
Speaker 2: that is. But it was interesting just sort of reading
Speaker 2: how she reflected on that later on, where she was like,
Speaker 2: I resented my mom because I didn't really understand how
Speaker 2: radical it was that she was working, Like I didn't
Speaker 2: see any moms that were working and so I assumed
Speaker 2: she was the problem when that wasn't the case. Oh.
Speaker 2: She also said of her brother Ken, and I think
Speaker 2: this was prior to his death, so it was just
Speaker 2: like good natured ripping. But she said, my brother is
Speaker 2: eccentric and he thinks my mother is God. And I
Speaker 2: was like, I want a son like that.
Speaker 1: But in any case, I feel like you do have
Speaker 1: two cat sons like that.
Speaker 2: I do. They're both eccentric and they think I'm God.
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to challenge that characteristic. But yeah,
Speaker 2: Ken was. I mean, he was a young gay man
Speaker 2: in the sixties and so it was not socially acceptable
Speaker 2: for him to be out. He was married to a
Speaker 2: woman for most of his life. He had some show
Speaker 2: business aspirations that so because he you know, like the
Speaker 2: kids they all grew up in LA they're kind of
Speaker 2: like Hollywood babies. And Ken went on to direct two movies,
Speaker 2: one of which I've seen called Delivery Boys about.
Speaker 1: Hey, and this is coming sounds like me in my
Speaker 1: hooter's career.
Speaker 2: It is a very like dancy, somewhat home eerotic movie.
Speaker 2: I quite enjoyed it. The plot is all over the place,
Speaker 2: like you're like, I think they are just like dancing
Speaker 2: and delivery. But it's a nineteen eighty four film directed
Speaker 2: by Ken Handler about a multi ethnic group of pizza
Speaker 2: delivery boys who started a break dancing team. And having
Speaker 2: seen the movie, I can tell you that's exactly what
Speaker 2: it's about and nothing else. But he you know, he
Speaker 2: is most famously known as the namesake of the Kendall
Speaker 2: but he also was a very creative person and had
Speaker 2: a lot of output of his own. So in any case,
Speaker 2: he did not come out to his family, I believe
Speaker 2: his mother, father, and sister until he had already tested
Speaker 2: positive for HIV, to the extent that he and his
Speaker 2: wife was already aware at this point, And so Ken
Speaker 2: and his wife Susie, and a doctor went to the
Speaker 2: home to explain not only what his diagnosis was, but
Speaker 2: what it was at all, because of how naive and
Speaker 2: how I mean, I think it really just speaks to
Speaker 2: how under educated the general public was about about issues
Speaker 2: surrounding HIV and AIDS. And so he passed away in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. He was only fifty years old, and
Speaker 2: at the time his parents announced that he had died
Speaker 2: of a brain tumor. And so I mean, I cannot
Speaker 2: say with any level of certainty what the intention behind
Speaker 2: that was, whether it was a denial that they had
Speaker 2: a queer son, or if they thought they were, you know,
Speaker 2: in this very antiquated way, thought they were acting in
Speaker 2: his best interest. I don't know. They didn't speak about
Speaker 2: it extensively, but I just feel like there Ken had
Speaker 2: a really tragically short but really interesting life, and within
Speaker 2: the queer community, was really well loved and had a
Speaker 2: lot of friends and a lot of creative pursuits and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And he didn't like Ken Dolls, and Barbie, well,
Speaker 2: she didn't like Barbie Dolls. And so I guess if
Speaker 2: you invent something, don't name it after your kids, they
Speaker 2: will hate you. But that's the additional context they wanted
Speaker 2: to share.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, And I guess the other things
Speaker 1: that I had about the movie that we didn't have
Speaker 1: time for in the live shows, a lot of them
Speaker 1: were things that I found frustrating about the movie. A
Speaker 1: few specific things are A pretty big component of Barbie's character,
Speaker 1: in addition to the fact that she's crying for most
Speaker 1: of the second half of the movie, is that she
Speaker 1: has a strong fixation on her own appearance and of
Speaker 1: course Barbie is a product of her environment, so it
Speaker 1: makes sense that she's hyper focused on her image because
Speaker 1: so much of the Barbie brand and lore is about
Speaker 1: what she looks like, how she's designed, that she's quote
Speaker 1: unquote perfect, all of that kind of stuff. But this
Speaker 1: manifests in the movie in a way that I feel
Speaker 1: like is not really thoughtfully commented on. There is that
Speaker 1: moment where Sasha is saying, like, you made girls feel
Speaker 1: horrible about themselves, and you're a fascist, But.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like she's presented as ultimately being wrong
Speaker 2: because and I think it's also like I get it's
Speaker 2: it's tricky because I feel tempted to defend the movie
Speaker 2: where it's like, well, you know, it's like part of it,
Speaker 2: but like couching it in jokes sometimes is really tricky
Speaker 2: because it's like, in one situation there something is if
Speaker 2: not a thousand percent true, worth discussing, and then the
Speaker 2: other thing, that Barbie is a fascist is objectively not true,
Speaker 2: and so it's all sort of cast in this same
Speaker 2: sort of like, well, none of this is true, and
Speaker 2: you're like, well, let's get back to the body image thing,
Speaker 2: because I think there is some truth to what Sasha
Speaker 2: is saying that a lot of the criticisms of Barbie
Speaker 2: have come up over the years are sometimes coming from
Speaker 2: a place of just like how dare a woman exist?
Speaker 2: And then there also is genuinely, as we talked about
Speaker 2: in the live show, a history of because this is
Speaker 2: quote unquote the aspirational doll. You're being handed this white, thin, blonde,
Speaker 2: large breasted, anatomically impossible doll and told this is what
Speaker 2: you should be aspiring to. So that's a far more
Speaker 2: complicated thing to deal with, and I mean, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: And then again, the way this all plays out in
Speaker 1: the movie for Barbie's character is that, like, the thing
Speaker 1: that finally motivates Barbie to be willing to take this
Speaker 1: journey into the real world and fix this rift that's
Speaker 1: been created is weird Barbie saying like, if you don't
Speaker 1: do this, you're going to keep getting more cellulate, And
Speaker 1: Barbie's like, oh my god, that's the worst imaginable thing.
Speaker 1: I could never have that. So that's what motivates her
Speaker 1: to go on the quest. Toward the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: after you know, Ken has taken over and ruined barbie Land. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the big things that Barbie is upset about
Speaker 1: is that she's not pretty anymore and that she's worried
Speaker 1: that Ken doesn't like her anymore. She also says things
Speaker 1: like I don't think I'm smart or interesting, But because
Speaker 1: she's already been so focused on her appearance, it feels
Speaker 1: like that's kind of the bigger takeaway from that moment.
Speaker 2: And also the added in like Margaret Robbie is the
Speaker 2: wrong person if you want to like blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: which is a very funny joke, but yeah, I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like something that I like, we were talking about, Like,
Speaker 2: I think that this does, in a really kind of
Speaker 2: pernicious way, tie into this movie's fundamental inability to talk
Speaker 2: about capitalism in a meaningful way because you can't talk
Speaker 2: too much about the body stuff without being overly of Barbie,
Speaker 2: who is bankrolling the movie. And I felt frustrated by
Speaker 2: the cellulate joke. Again, it just felt like kind of
Speaker 2: dated too, because it's not like there are not you know,
Speaker 2: we have a fat Barbie. We have at least some body.
Speaker 2: Diversity within the Barbie is not, you know, arguably not enough,
Speaker 2: but there it does exist. And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I guess if you're like five D chessing it like, no,
Speaker 2: Barbie has cellulite because they're all hard plastic. But you know,
Speaker 2: the inherent message in there, it still felt like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was still pretty focused on looks.
Speaker 1: Well because this whole thing, like it kind of just
Speaker 1: boils down to yes, stereotypical. Barbie is known for being this,
Speaker 1: you know, like ideal beauty standard. So it makes sense
Speaker 1: that she would value that about herself, because when a
Speaker 1: certain trait is valued by society, you tend to value
Speaker 1: that about yourself or your condition to value that about yourself. However,
Speaker 1: I feel like there was a big opportunity for Barbie
Speaker 1: to learn that that's not a trait that she should
Speaker 1: place so much emphasis on, or that she, you know,
Speaker 1: should be expected to be valued by others about herself
Speaker 1: based only on her appearance, and that she, you know,
Speaker 1: should discover other qualities about herself. But the movie doesn't
Speaker 1: fully get there. You know, there's a little bit at
Speaker 1: the end when she is talking to the Ruth Handler
Speaker 1: character about becoming human and wanting to be someone who
Speaker 1: makes and creates ideas and contributes to society, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't really feel super earned to me because everything we've
Speaker 1: just saying learned about her thus far, A lot of
Speaker 1: what we learned about her thus far is like her
Speaker 1: placing so much emphasis on her appearance and like being
Speaker 1: very fixated on that. And I feel like if that
Speaker 1: arc had just been more like thoroughly explored, I feel
Speaker 1: like I could have easily gotten there. But I don't know,
Speaker 1: it just it didn't quite work for me.
Speaker 2: I agree, but like to a slightly turned down extent,
Speaker 2: I guess I think that the body issue is unexplored
Speaker 2: in a way that I don't know, like it was disappointing.
Speaker 2: And also because it is the Barbie movie, I was
Speaker 2: not surprised that those kind of flaws were present because
Speaker 2: this I don't think that this movie is handled to
Speaker 2: truly meaningfully critique the product of Barbie, and because so
Speaker 2: much of the critique around Barbie surrounds body issues, I
Speaker 2: wasn't surprised that this movie doesn't crack that wide open,
Speaker 2: because it's not a movie by its very existence that
Speaker 2: would be able to But I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's been so much talk about, like, well, what if
Speaker 2: there's a Barbie two. First of all, just let the
Speaker 2: movie be the movie. And also I think that, like,
Speaker 2: were there a Barbi two, I would hope that, like,
Speaker 2: if the focus on the first Barbie movie is on
Speaker 2: tackling these stereotypes associated with Barbie, then it's like, and
Speaker 2: let's move on, and let's focus on the Barbies that,
Speaker 2: like we were talking about during the live show, are
Speaker 2: present but not story present and deserve actual storylines. And
Speaker 2: so I guess that that is what my hope would be.
Speaker 2: I guess I wasn't super put off by it because
Speaker 2: I didn't really expect more from the Barbie movie in
Speaker 2: that regard, but like, I guess that transitions a little
Speaker 2: bit into something that I was thinking. I mean, because
Speaker 2: I think that by the nature of our jobs, we
Speaker 2: I mean, I was even when I was seeing this
Speaker 2: movie for fun, I was thinking about it from a
Speaker 2: Bechdel cast lens, because what the movie is talking about
Speaker 2: makes it kind of hard to not, you know, put
Speaker 2: it on. Some movies are so just like Smooth Brain
Speaker 2: that you're like, I'm just having fun. But like, it
Speaker 2: was hard to not immediately, you know, because the movie
Speaker 2: is trying to to interrogate however overly essentialist as we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about and mentioned it in the live show,
Speaker 2: but interrogate binary gender stereotypes as they pertain to Barbie.
Speaker 2: I think that I got so honed in on that,
Speaker 2: which is not a fault on my part. I mean,
Speaker 2: the movie's asking you to do that, but I wasn't
Speaker 2: thinking about alternate readings of the movie, and so I
Speaker 2: wanted to just mention two that did not occur to me,
Speaker 2: but I thought we're interesting to read more about. One
Speaker 2: of them was the Ruth Handler is God Barbie's Jesus,
Speaker 2: where Greta Gerwig has said at a number of points
Speaker 2: in the press tour for this movie, yeah, that she
Speaker 2: basically compares this to a reverse Adam and Eve situation.
Speaker 2: She says in a Vogue interview from last May quote,
Speaker 2: Barbie was invented first, Ken was invented after Barbie to
Speaker 2: burnish Barbie's position in our eyes and in the world.
Speaker 2: That kind of created myth is the opposite of the
Speaker 2: creation myth in Genesis, and so I feel like it
Speaker 2: kind of with that weird kind of biblical lens, some
Speaker 2: of the creative choices make a little more sense to me,
Speaker 2: but don't necessarily work like I feel like it's if
Speaker 2: you're having to have these two things be true at
Speaker 2: the same time it's and be a corporate movie. It's
Speaker 2: basically impossible. But there were some choices that I didn't
Speaker 2: like from a gendered perspective, Like we talked about during
Speaker 2: the episode, the end scene with Barbie and Ken, where
Speaker 2: she apologized to him, he doesn't apologize to her. I
Speaker 2: think that, like, once I read the biblical interpretation of it,
Speaker 2: that scene made more sense to me. But from the
Speaker 2: gendered place, which is how it's basically presented to us,
Speaker 2: it didn't work for me as much so, but I
Speaker 2: did think it was interesting that that read is very
Speaker 2: valid and at least somewhat intentional.
Speaker 1: Sure, either way, I'm still going to be frustrated by
Speaker 1: all of that emotional labor that Barbie is doing, all
Speaker 1: of the apologizing that she's doing and receiving none in return.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all I was saying was that that read works
Speaker 2: for the biblical thing, but it's also like, that's a
Speaker 2: biblical thing. Do I want to give that read deference?
Speaker 2: Not really the other reading I wanted to reference because
Speaker 2: I saw it a couple of times. There's a number
Speaker 2: of pieces written about it, just about Barbie, and when
Speaker 2: I say Barbie, I mean, Margo Robbie Barbie as an
Speaker 2: asexual icon. Of course, she is not openly ace within
Speaker 2: the movie, but either been a number of I think
Speaker 2: really well written and thought out pieces that argue that
Speaker 2: she is ace coded, including interviews that Marco Robbie has given.
Speaker 2: In that same Vogue press tour, Robbie was asked, she's
Speaker 2: my friend. Mago was asked if the character of Barbie
Speaker 2: had sexual desire, and margat Robbie said no, I don't
Speaker 2: think she could. She is sexualized, but I never thought
Speaker 2: she should be sexy. People project sex onto her. Yes,
Speaker 2: she could wear a short skirt, but because it's fun
Speaker 2: and pink, not because she wanted you to see her butt.
Speaker 2: So this is I'm pulling this argument from a salon
Speaker 2: piece by Kelly Pow that came out last summer aka
Speaker 2: The Season of Barbie think Pieces, But Kelly Powell essentially
Speaker 2: makes the argument that while it is not a stated
Speaker 2: choice with the character that Barbie's interests like, she openly
Speaker 2: has no desire for a relationship. But basically what this
Speaker 2: piece is describing that I feel like is often lost
Speaker 2: in the discourse around as characters and ace people, of
Speaker 2: which there are already so few in terms of characters.
Speaker 2: Is that being a sexual does not preclude you from
Speaker 2: rape culture, and that Barbie's character in this movie is
Speaker 2: an interesting example of that that while she does not
Speaker 2: desire a sexual relationship, she is still constantly piled on
Speaker 2: by the rape culture that exists, by how people perceive her.
Speaker 2: So I thought that was another, you know, interesting of
Speaker 2: the thing, because it just felt like, I mean, the
Speaker 2: discourse around this movie was just so much that it
Speaker 2: wasn't even as if these two reads were like not
Speaker 2: able to be found, but there was just so much
Speaker 2: that I just wanted to say, hey, check this out.
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that read, And I appreciate about this
Speaker 1: movie that she doesn't end up with Ken and that
Speaker 1: this romantic relationship isn't foisted on her when she clearly
Speaker 1: is not interested in it. And after all that Ken
Speaker 1: had done to ruined Barbieland so I thought that was
Speaker 1: a really interesting and brave choice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, just like something you never see in blockbusters
Speaker 2: is I think even in Blockbusters, if you have a
Speaker 2: lead character who's a woman or a fem that, even
Speaker 2: if they are very self motivated, they're movie the plot
Speaker 2: alogue like, it's they're a great character. There still is
Speaker 2: generally like and here's their partner. And and again, obviously
Speaker 2: we've talked about it on the show a million times,
Speaker 2: not that that is lessening desire, but but it's just
Speaker 2: very rare to see a protagonist who it's just like,
Speaker 2: here's a hyper feminine protagonist, and we're not going to
Speaker 2: force her to end up with someone like. I can't
Speaker 2: think of a popular example of that. That isn't a
Speaker 2: child like that isn't like a movie for children.
Speaker 1: It's it's very rare, and especially when the like the
Speaker 1: source material is bar B plus ken like, you would
Speaker 1: expect that to be how the movie ends up. But
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that that wasn't the case. Agree, although
Speaker 1: there is something at the end that I did find
Speaker 1: very frustrating. We touched on this in the live show,
Speaker 1: but I think it deserves more attention, which is that
Speaker 1: when Barbie decides to return to the real world and
Speaker 1: become human, the first thing that we see her do
Speaker 1: is go to a gynecologist, and it's implied that she
Speaker 1: has grown a vagina question mark.
Speaker 2: The implications are quite scary.
Speaker 1: They're scary, it's a very gender sensualist thing to imply
Speaker 1: that because she apparently has a vagina, now that's how
Speaker 1: you become a quote unquote real woman.
Speaker 2: I was talking about this bravely with my boyfriend, not woo,
Speaker 2: but I was talking about because that was a that
Speaker 2: from view one I've always felt yucky about and because
Speaker 2: and I don't think it comes from a hateful place.
Speaker 2: I just think it comes from a thoughtless place and
Speaker 2: that I was like, well what is because I like,
Speaker 2: I've never not seen that, because it is also kind
Speaker 2: of like a tongue in cheek kind of thing. But
Speaker 2: I'm like, there's other ways to make this joke without
Speaker 2: it having to be gender essentialist. I was like, can
Speaker 2: we have her go buy some mace? Like can we Like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different ways to be like I
Speaker 2: am joining the struggle of human women and femmes today
Speaker 2: and I am buying mace and a knife to attach
Speaker 2: to my keys or whatever it is, without it becoming
Speaker 2: this creepy like you're saying like essential ast bio freaky,
Speaker 2: Like it's just a dark road to go down. Don't
Speaker 2: ever go down it. There's ways to make the point.
Speaker 2: I think that they're trying to make without doing that.
Speaker 1: My pitch was like, why can't we just see her
Speaker 1: like enrolling in a class.
Speaker 2: Or something like. I like that, Like at the end,
Speaker 2: she's like excited to do something that people dread. Like that,
Speaker 2: it's like no one's smiling to go see their guynecologists,
Speaker 2: but like no one's smiling when they're doing millions of
Speaker 2: things associated with being a femin in the world, you know, right.
Speaker 1: So, Greta Gerwig, I pulled a quote from her about this.
Speaker 1: She says, quote, I knew I wanted to end on
Speaker 1: a mic drop kind of joke, but I also find
Speaker 1: it very emotional. When I was a teenage girl, I
Speaker 1: remember growing up and being embarrassed about my body and
Speaker 1: just feeling ashamed in a way that I couldn't even describe.
Speaker 1: I felt like everything had to be hidden.
Speaker 2: And then to see.
Speaker 1: Margot as Barbie with this big old smile on her
Speaker 1: face saying what she says at the end, with such
Speaker 1: happiness and enjoy I was like, if I can give
Speaker 1: girls that feeling of Barbie does it too. That's both
Speaker 1: funny and emotional. Unquote, which fair I get, especially because
Speaker 1: women and fems are encouraged to feel ashamed about their body.
Speaker 1: But it just feels like, like you said, it wasn't
Speaker 1: carefully sought out and the implications of a joke like
Speaker 1: that were kind of ignored.
Speaker 2: And yeah, stuff like that. I agree, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's under that. And know it's also interesting to hear
Speaker 2: her sort of internal logic. It makes sense that it
Speaker 2: comes from a personal place. But again I think that
Speaker 2: that's just that's almost like something that we rarely encounter
Speaker 2: in this exact context. But like that feels like the
Speaker 2: oh tour risk that like people in those positions just
Speaker 2: need to be really mindful about. Is that, like, if
Speaker 2: you're projecting your experience as the experience, you're gonna come
Speaker 2: up against issues like this that are intentional or not exclusionary.
Speaker 2: And in this you know, in this case centering SIS
Speaker 2: women right, And also I can acknowledge that you know,
Speaker 2: SIS women, I mean, anyone could laugh at that joke
Speaker 2: and that a lot of SIS women felt seen by it.
Speaker 2: But I just feel like, as the button of a
Speaker 2: movie that I really enjoyed, I was bummed out by it.
Speaker 2: There are so many because I mean, there's just so
Speaker 2: many ways to make that point without centering that there's
Speaker 2: so many ways in which femmes are encouraged to feel
Speaker 2: shame and discomfort. You really have a chrkey to rey Board.
Speaker 1: So truly. Yes, a few other things that I found
Speaker 1: frustrating about the movie. This is just going to be
Speaker 1: a quicker list, But one is the joke that compares
Speaker 1: what's happening in barbie Land with like Ken taking over,
Speaker 1: comparing that who colonizers committing genocide against indigenous people in
Speaker 1: the New World in the fifteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially in a movie that makes no attempt to
Speaker 2: comment on Indigenous people in any other way except in
Speaker 2: this one joke, and it Yeah, do not like no
Speaker 2: another one.
Speaker 1: And I hinted at this a little bit ago, but
Speaker 1: the suggestion that the only people who play with dolls
Speaker 1: are girls. This is the case in the opening sequence
Speaker 1: with the little girls playing with the baby dolls, and
Speaker 1: then later when weird Barbie is explaining to stereotypical Barbie
Speaker 1: that there's usually a disconnect between the Barbie and the
Speaker 1: girl who is playing with her, ignoring the fact that
Speaker 1: boys and children of all genders play with dolls.
Speaker 2: Which again, it felt very preventable. Like it, you don't
Speaker 2: change the meaning of that statement by saying, like the
Speaker 2: kid like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the language could have been altered to to just
Speaker 1: make it more gender inclusive, and it just didn't do it.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Weird Barbie, I say justice for her. I
Speaker 1: think she deserves more of an apology.
Speaker 2: I think weird Barbie could should have stolen someone's house.
Speaker 2: I was like, weird Barbie should have done some damage.
Speaker 2: I feel like if I was Weird Barbie, I would
Speaker 2: be filling such rage in a way that I would
Speaker 2: have been more interested. I would have been way more
Speaker 2: interested in Weird Barbie exerting her rage onto the other
Speaker 2: barbiees versus the Kens on the Barbies, because Weird Barbie,
Speaker 2: unlike the Kens, has genuinely been wronged, right. She is
Speaker 2: like Jennifer Hudson cat in Cats as I think I
Speaker 2: loudly said to you in movie theater, But it's true.
Speaker 2: She is. She is like memory, Like where's her memory?
Speaker 2: All alone in the moonlight? Like they said, like hard
Speaker 2: enough Barbie says, she used to be the most beautiful Barbie,
Speaker 2: but then she got old and weird, and now she's
Speaker 2: been sent off to the island of misfit grinch Barbies.
Speaker 2: And it's like that's literally Jennifer Hudson Cat, Yeah, tell
Speaker 2: me that's not her. What was the name, Grizabella, Grizabella
Speaker 2: the glamour Cat. And then they gave her the gift
Speaker 2: of death at the end. They should have done that.
Speaker 2: They should have sent Weird Barbie up in the balloon
Speaker 2: and just given her the sweet embrace of death if
Speaker 2: that's what she wanted. Either way, we do know that
Speaker 2: she knows what death is and I will never get
Speaker 2: over that. But yeah, I think that like they were
Speaker 2: just the fact that I mean, and I liked Kate
Speaker 2: McKinnon's performance. I think the anesthetic is cool, Like the
Speaker 2: joke of weird Barbie is awesome, but it just felt
Speaker 2: like that character is like it's such a strong setup
Speaker 2: for a character and such a perfect piece of casting
Speaker 2: that it's like, let her fuck around. She's mostly just like,
Speaker 2: it's all good that you've treated me horrifically, and I'm
Speaker 2: Jennifer Hudson Cat, You're like, it's actually famously not all good.
Speaker 1: It's not okay, and yeah, and then she's doing a
Speaker 1: bunch of the labor to like save Barbie land on
Speaker 1: brainwash the Barbie.
Speaker 6: So it's like like Marco Robbie, Barbie keeps calling her ugly,
Speaker 6: and I'm like, it feels very like Liz lemon coated,
Speaker 6: where you're like, I mean, the cost of it makes
Speaker 6: her look not you know, but but it's like you're
Speaker 6: still looking at ka kit and be serious, you know.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean it goes back to the stereotypical Barbie's
Speaker 1: kind of obsession with image that like, I just wish
Speaker 1: I'd been handled differently in the movie anyway.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and I guess like with her obsession with image,
Speaker 2: I think it makes sense that it's there, but it's
Speaker 2: just not handled period kind of. It's just it just is.
Speaker 2: It's like the Blockbuster. What happens in every Blockbuster where
Speaker 2: they're like, we're not doing the thing, but like to
Speaker 2: some extent your always doing the thing.
Speaker 1: The thing this is real quick. But I would also
Speaker 1: say justice for Midge. I know, there's like the voiceover
Speaker 1: that says, like, oh, let's not show Midge because a
Speaker 1: pregnant or I'm sorry, a pregnant dog is just too weird.
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with that. I don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: a pregnant doll.
Speaker 2: If you've seen the doll, I like, because I also
Speaker 2: wrote Justice Formage in my notes, Justice Formage as she's
Speaker 2: presented in the movie.
Speaker 1: In the movie, Yeah, and then you see the doll
Speaker 1: and you're like, that is disturbing. But when you see
Speaker 1: you know, Emerald Fanelle in the movie and then it
Speaker 1: like pans away from her really quick, it just means
Speaker 1: that there's a joke at the expense of a pregnant person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I didn't love that either.
Speaker 2: I let it fly, but only because the dolls genuinely
Speaker 2: bone chilling.
Speaker 1: It's creepy. Yeah, I guess I don't know how succinctly
Speaker 1: or thoughtfully I made any kind of like conclusive thoughts
Speaker 1: throughout the live show, but I do just want to
Speaker 1: say that, like bottom line, it's about women lifting each
Speaker 1: other up and fighting against the patriarchy. Very few movies
Speaker 1: are actually about that. It's not a movie that revolves
Speaker 1: around a woman ending up romantically with a man. Instead,
Speaker 1: it's a movie about a woman's self discovery and self actualization.
Speaker 1: But I also think that this movie pretty accurately reflects
Speaker 1: where we are at culturally in regard to feminism. You know,
Speaker 1: it's again a big, high budget, high grossing movie about
Speaker 1: feminism that still focuses on a character who is sis.
Speaker 1: She's white, she's hyper feminine, she's traditionally beautiful, because that
Speaker 1: is it's Margarot Robbie, because that is still what's largely
Speaker 1: valued by society. And even though there's more feminist discourse
Speaker 1: in the mainstream culture than there was, and there's more
Speaker 1: calling out sexism and patriarchal standards than there was, like
Speaker 1: you know, a decade ago and certainly before that, intersectionality
Speaker 1: is still not very mainstream. And I think this movie
Speaker 1: reflects that. I think that the as we said, like
Speaker 1: the attempts at inclusion are pretty surface level, and it
Speaker 1: just means that we just have to keep pushing the
Speaker 1: conversation right of intersectionality and meaningful inclusion.
Speaker 2: And I think that this movie, I want to believe,
Speaker 2: and I think we did discuss this in the live show,
Speaker 2: is that while this movie leaves a lot to be
Speaker 2: desired in terms of meaningful inclusion, that its success in
Speaker 2: a just world leaves the way. Yeah. I mean, because
Speaker 2: we've talked about this on this show for years, where
Speaker 2: it's like proving again and again and again that a
Speaker 2: quote unquote marginalized movie going population, which is ridiculous because
Speaker 2: women are the majority of movie going population, like need
Speaker 2: to be validated as worthy of being catered to directly.
Speaker 2: And it's very rare that, like, at least in the
Speaker 2: blockbuster sense, that women and friends are undeniably shown to
Speaker 2: be can be a force behind a movie. And I hope,
Speaker 2: and you know, blah blah blah, Like I don't believe
Speaker 2: we live in a just world, but I hope that
Speaker 2: the success of Barbie will lead two more meaningfully inclusive projects,
Speaker 2: and hopefully this will be a stepping stone in building
Speaker 2: blockbusters that are genuinely more inclusive. And I think building
Speaker 2: blockbusters that are more genuinely inclusive mean straying from this
Speaker 2: old ip because you're presented with a high fucking mountain
Speaker 2: to scale if you're given Barbie ip like, it's it.
Speaker 2: I really hope that the success of Barbie can be
Speaker 2: taken as a sign that yes, in fact, women still
Speaker 2: want to see movies, always have, always will, and to
Speaker 2: invest in original stories that don't have these complicated and
Speaker 2: fucked connections with body image, with race, with heteronormativity that
Speaker 2: the Barbie property does. And so anyways, I think this movie, like,
Speaker 2: I mean, we've talked about it all at this point,
Speaker 2: but its failures should be discussed, and I hope that
Speaker 2: its success means that those failures can be corrected by
Speaker 2: directors down the line. And with that, let's take you
Speaker 2: back to the Barbie past, where we provide our Barbie
Speaker 2: past conclusive thoughts about the Barbie movie.
Speaker 1: Wow, does the movie pass the Bechdel test?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, immediately and all the time. And we
Speaker 1: love that, and we love that. And when the Kens
Speaker 1: are talking, they're usually talking about barbiees.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 1: It's like the reverse Spectel test thing.
Speaker 2: It's true. They're either they're talking about Barbie or horses
Speaker 2: and horses of indetermined gender. I feel like horses really
Speaker 2: kind of get the short end of the stick in
Speaker 2: this movie. I feel like horses, you know, they never
Speaker 2: asked to be associated with patriarchy, That's true. Let them
Speaker 2: be free. The Felicity girls are begging for it.
Speaker 1: Yes, but what about our nipple scale? The scale world
Speaker 1: we write the movie was zero to five nipples. Examining
Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens, Yes, I'm between like
Speaker 1: a three point five and four on this. I think
Speaker 1: this movie is doing a lot more than most movies do.
Speaker 1: And even though it misses opportunities to be more inclusive
Speaker 1: and to be more intersectional, and to just open up
Speaker 1: more conversations about capitalism and white supremacy and all the
Speaker 1: things we discussed, it still is is a fun romp
Speaker 1: about women taking down the patriarchy, and I love that,
Speaker 1: so I think I'll go I'll go four nipples. Four
Speaker 1: out of five is eighty percent, and that's still a
Speaker 1: B minus and that feels honestly fair. So past Barbie
Speaker 1: over here. I'll give one nipple to John Senna, whoever
Speaker 1: the fuck that is never heard of him. I will
Speaker 1: give one nipple to Esay, I will give one nipple
Speaker 1: to Greta Gerwig, and I'll give one nipple to Margot Robbie.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was not creative at all. I'm going to
Speaker 2: go for as well. Yeah, I mean, based on everything
Speaker 2: we've been talking about and stuff we didn't even have
Speaker 2: time to talk about. I think that this movie is
Speaker 2: because this movie exists and was so successful. I am
Speaker 2: currently at the time of recording, optimistic that it will
Speaker 2: lead to more women driven projects that are more inclusive
Speaker 2: and are more thoughtful on the issues that this movie
Speaker 2: didn't address. Because I is a Barbie movie ever going
Speaker 2: to be capable of handling capitalism meaningfully. Probably not. But
Speaker 2: I do feel like the success of this movie and
Speaker 2: the fact that it is explicitly about women tackling women's
Speaker 2: issues is really amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think that obviously,
Speaker 2: the diversity of this movie is very surface. Y. I
Speaker 2: still can't believe that they cast EASi Ray and gave
Speaker 2: her ten lines like what is wrong with you? My
Speaker 2: mom is a second grade teacher, And I asked, I
Speaker 2: did a little study. I was like, what are kids'
Speaker 2: favorite parts of the Barbie movie? And their favorite parts
Speaker 2: are when Easiray shows up they are so thrilled and
Speaker 2: do a leaper Mermaid. Wow, those are the parts that
Speaker 2: matter to the children. And I celebrate that John Cena
Speaker 2: Mermaids sort of crickets there because who is that? Who
Speaker 2: is John Senna? Who's John Senna? I don't know who
Speaker 2: that who that is? But yeah, I mean I also,
Speaker 2: I just like, I really liked seeing this movie. It
Speaker 2: puts me in a good mood to watch it, and
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of movies that do it. And
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna stand the test of time. And
Speaker 2: I think that's really exciting. So I'm gonna give it
Speaker 2: four nipples. I'm gonna give one to Greta Gerwig. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna give one. Oh, I'm gonna give one to Arianna
Speaker 2: green Blatt because I wish that Sasha had had more
Speaker 2: to do, and she played the moody teenager really perfectly. Truly,
Speaker 2: she was like giving full hot topic in her first
Speaker 2: scene she had. I was like, all, but like the thumb,
Speaker 2: you know, like the slave on the thumb. She could
Speaker 2: have been wearing fingerless gloves and it would have worked.
Speaker 2: And that's great. I'm going to give one nipple to
Speaker 2: Issa Ray and I'm gonna give one nipple too. I'll
Speaker 2: give one to John Senna as well. I hope he
Speaker 2: catches a break at some point. He's really no, I'm
Speaker 2: going to give min a DJ Collin because no, wait, wait,
Speaker 2: wait no, I'm going to give my DJ collins ex wife.
Speaker 2: May things have improved on her end? Yeah? Is that
Speaker 2: an episode? That's our episode, everybody, mum.
Speaker 1: And that was the Barbie Live Show. Thanks again to
Speaker 1: everyone who came out to all of the shows that
Speaker 1: we did on this tour. Thank you to the venues
Speaker 1: for having us. We always have such fun doing live shows,
Speaker 1: especially the.
Speaker 2: Meet and greets, hanging out like actually just getting to
Speaker 2: spend time with you. We really appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who bought merch and again we have
Speaker 1: another tour coming up in the UK, so if you
Speaker 1: want to come see us do shows on Titanic or Shrek.
Speaker 1: We know most movies of all time, possibly the two
Speaker 1: movies that are most canon to this show, so you
Speaker 1: know that we're gonna put on a spectacle.
Speaker 2: And you can't call us misinterests because guess what, they're
Speaker 2: directed by men. Sorry, uh no, we'll see you at
Speaker 2: the UK. Thanks to everyone who came out to this
Speaker 2: tour and as always, if you want to listen to
Speaker 2: more Bechdel Cast, well you're very able to do that.
Speaker 2: You can go right now to our patreon Akmatreon that's
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, and for five dollars
Speaker 2: a month, you have access to two additional episodes a
Speaker 2: month around a fun theme hosted by Caitlin and myself.
Speaker 2: It's always a good time, and you'll get access to
Speaker 2: over one hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, you can also go to our merch
Speaker 1: store at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast, where
Speaker 1: you can satisfy all of your merch needs and everything
Speaker 1: there is designed by a one Jamie Loftus, So grab
Speaker 1: your merch and stay tuned for the other live show
Speaker 1: that we covered on this tour. That episode will be
Speaker 1: coming out soon on The Wolf of Wall Street, so
Speaker 1: keep your eyes peeled for that and other episodes. Ye Bye,
Speaker 1: Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
Speaker 1: hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman,
Speaker 1: edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by
Speaker 1: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski. Our logo in
Speaker 1: Merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks
Speaker 1: to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please
Speaker 1: visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast