WEBVTT - Barbie

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, everyone, just jumping in with a quick announcement, a

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<v Speaker 1>very exciting one. In addition to the shows that you'll hear,

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie and I plug on this episode for our upcoming

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<v Speaker 1>Shrek Tannic tour, we just added a show in Dublin

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<v Speaker 1>on May twenty ninth. We will be at the Irish

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<v Speaker 1>Film Institute and we are covering Titanic. So come to

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<v Speaker 1>that show that we were finally able to confirm in Dublin.

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<v Speaker 1>We're so excited for it. And then, speaking of Dublin,

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<v Speaker 1>come to my birthday show. I'm doing a stand up

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<v Speaker 1>comedy show with me and local comedians on my birthday

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<v Speaker 1>on May seventeenth, also in Dublin. That show is at

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<v Speaker 1>Hysteria Comedy Club. Tickets to both shows, as well as

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<v Speaker 1>tickets for all of the other shows on this tour,

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<v Speaker 1>can be found at Linktree Slash Bechtel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>Enjoy the episode on the bich Doodcast.

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<v Speaker 3>The questions ask if movies have women and are discussions

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<v Speaker 3>just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? It's

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<v Speaker 3>the patriarchy, zephim vest start changing.

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<v Speaker 2>With the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, Barbie Caitlin, Hi, Barbie, Jamie and Hi, Barbie listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for tuning in. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>Bechdel Cast. My name is Barbie Jamie Loftus.

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<v Speaker 1>And my name is Barbie Caitlin Durante. And this is

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<v Speaker 1>our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

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<v Speaker 1>using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is a special episode because we went on tour

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<v Speaker 1>covering the Barbie Movie. We went to a bunch of cities.

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<v Speaker 1>What you're about to hear shortly is the live show

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<v Speaker 1>that we did. We this is the audio from the

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<v Speaker 1>Sacramento show we recorded.

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<v Speaker 2>This tour was such a blast we've in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, let's let's get into it. Folks. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you're our family, your emergency contacts and vice versa. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we were really excited to do the Barbie Show live.

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<v Speaker 2>This is sort of our first time doing We did

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<v Speaker 2>a five city tour, but we only covered two movies

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<v Speaker 2>and most of them were Barbie. And it was a

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<v Speaker 2>really cool experience because I feel like we got the

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity to build out I mean, I feel like a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the time with the live episodes, we've built

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<v Speaker 2>out an episode, but this time we got to build

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<v Speaker 2>out a show and like it was just such a blast.

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<v Speaker 2>We went to San Francisco's, Sacramento, Dallas, Austin, and San Diego.

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<v Speaker 2>Four out of five of those cities were the first

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<v Speaker 2>time that we were going and meeting folks, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was just truly the best, And I mean it was

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<v Speaker 2>just really cool to see, you know, like a real

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<v Speaker 2>sense of camaraderie among Bachtel cast listeners. We had a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people dressing up like just we come out

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<v Speaker 2>of live performance and most of the time we're cooped

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<v Speaker 2>up in our homes intensely discussing film and it's fun

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<v Speaker 2>discourse and then it's just like really fun and freeing

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<v Speaker 2>and nice to do that with the people who listen

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<v Speaker 2>to this show. So if you attended any of these shows,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for coming. Barbies. Chances are that

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<v Speaker 2>we talk to you personally because we are we enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>doing that. It's really fun and quite frankly, I just

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<v Speaker 2>like to see everyone's little outfits they're wearing. To quote

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<v Speaker 2>the Will Ferrell character I hate in this movie in

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<v Speaker 2>the least creepy way possible. Yes, but this was a blast,

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<v Speaker 2>and so this is our one of our live shows.

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<v Speaker 2>If you enjoy the vibe you're picking up and you

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<v Speaker 2>happen to live in the UK, well, guess what good news.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going on tour in the UK. We sure are.

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<v Speaker 1>At the time of this recording. We have shows booked

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<v Speaker 1>in late May in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you live in or near any of those places,

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<v Speaker 1>or also if you just kind of live like anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>to do like a little good trip. Yeah, if you

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<v Speaker 1>want to do a little trip, we're taking a trip,

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<v Speaker 1>so you should too, So come see us live in

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<v Speaker 1>the UK. Tickets for those shows are at link Tree, Slash,

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<v Speaker 1>specdel Cast And we're so excited because we're covering Titanic

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<v Speaker 1>and Shrek.

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<v Speaker 2>The Shrek Tannic tour is going to go really hard,

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<v Speaker 2>So if you can be there, highly recommended that you

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<v Speaker 2>be there. Yeah, and yeah, again, thanks to everyone who

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<v Speaker 2>came out to the Barbie tour, and you know, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you to all of the venues that hosted us. We're

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<v Speaker 2>posting the episode from STAB Comedy Theater and Sacramento, but

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<v Speaker 2>there were so many wonderful places that hosted us along

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<v Speaker 2>the way. And yeah, so without further ado, we present

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<v Speaker 2>to you of Barbie Movie episode the beck Delcast. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>my goodness, Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie. How I like how

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<v Speaker 2>quickly the Barbie shows get corny, like they just have

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<v Speaker 2>to be. You're like, we're just pushing through it. We

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<v Speaker 2>gotta do it. How is everybody? Thanks for coming? Thank

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<v Speaker 2>you for coming? Hell, yeah, we're really about to be

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<v Speaker 2>here because we're doing two shows back to back. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing I guess it's like the Margot Robbie wearing pink.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we just took our kuayludes with the ninety the

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<v Speaker 1>ninety minute release, and so by the time that show starts,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna be so fucked up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass out in the middle

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<v Speaker 2>of the show. We're gonna be crawling around. Anyways, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk about Barbie. So uh, okay, we'll do

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<v Speaker 2>the free applause thing first. Give it up if you've

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<v Speaker 2>ever listened to our show, Okay, give it up. If

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<v Speaker 2>you have not and you're being dragged here against your wall, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we have some people that's okay. At the safe space.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually we are not able to make eye contact with all. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So like if we do it's not personal. It's just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like, there's nowhere to look. Who has seen

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<v Speaker 2>the Barbie movie?

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<v Speaker 1>Round of applause?

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<v Speaker 2>Did anyone not see it? Whoa wow? People in San

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<v Speaker 2>Francisco last night who didn't know who we were hadn't

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<v Speaker 2>seen Barbie but still like wandered in and could not

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<v Speaker 2>account for why like it was and they still loved

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<v Speaker 2>the shows. I mean did they? I don't know. It

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<v Speaker 2>was hard to say. But you know, whoever that man was,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm rooting for him. I would never root for a

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<v Speaker 2>man true Eli ship. Okay, so well we'll kind of

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<v Speaker 2>get right into it. So Caitlin, Yeah, I know you've

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<v Speaker 2>seen the Barbie movie. It's true. Oh. One of my

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<v Speaker 2>favorite parts of the movie is when Easter races the

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<v Speaker 2>Godfather and he's like, oh, yeah, the Godfather? Right? Oh

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<v Speaker 2>is this the Godfather? Just like one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 2>line reads every But Okay, so I know you've seen

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<v Speaker 2>the movie. What is your history with Barbies in general?

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<v Speaker 1>I did play with them. Brave brave of me to say, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I had a handful as a kid. I mostly made

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<v Speaker 1>them have sex with each other. I had horny Barbies.

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<v Speaker 1>I also like probably played with them in other contexts,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't remember that. And then after a while,

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<v Speaker 1>I was like sort of out growing or I felt

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<v Speaker 1>like I was outgrowing barbies. But I had a sister.

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<v Speaker 2>She's still alive. I have a sister.

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<v Speaker 1>She's three years younger than me, and so she was

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<v Speaker 1>still in her barbie playing phase, and like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of like out of obligation, I would still

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<v Speaker 1>play with her. But I was like, I'm too old

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<v Speaker 1>for this, I'm too cool for this. So I turned

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<v Speaker 1>so many of my barbies into weird barbies. I would

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<v Speaker 1>chop off all their hair, I would paint them with

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<v Speaker 1>nail polish. I would pop off their heads, their limbs,

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<v Speaker 1>like I was just destroying the hell out of them

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<v Speaker 1>and having a blast.

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<v Speaker 2>That's real older sibling behavior. This is just mensing.

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<v Speaker 1>What about you, what's your barbie history and experience.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been preparing for this episode my whole life. Hi,

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<v Speaker 2>I liked barbies when I was a kid. I like

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<v Speaker 2>had a million cousins, so most of my barbies were

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<v Speaker 2>handed me downs from them. And then my mom did

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<v Speaker 2>that thing where she like, we didn't have any money,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet she went into credit card debt, getting barbies

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't touch, and then she'd be like, this is

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<v Speaker 2>going to pay for your college and you're like, they

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<v Speaker 2>shockingly are still at her house. They have accomplished nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, my mom was a doll collector and I

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<v Speaker 2>really liked dolls, but I couldn't like, I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like the thing, especially when I hit middle school,

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't let myself just like something. I had to

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<v Speaker 2>turn it into like I had to intellectualize it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So I was thank you, but like I was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not that I like the movie Titanic because it's

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<v Speaker 2>a perfect movie. I actually am really into naval history.

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<v Speaker 4>So it just kind of intersects with this interest I have,

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<v Speaker 4>and so I weirdly know a lot about naval history

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<v Speaker 4>to cover up for the fact that I and it's

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<v Speaker 4>similar with Barbie's.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to just be like I like playing

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<v Speaker 2>with dolls. I was like, it's actually an anthropological history

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<v Speaker 2>of American play things. And You're like, oh, what the

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<v Speaker 2>fuck was she talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, how how did it feel when you released

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<v Speaker 1>yourself from that need to and then you could just

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<v Speaker 1>be like, I like what I like?

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<v Speaker 2>I think you?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, well, no, I don't know. Sorry, this just became

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<v Speaker 1>a therapy section.

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<v Speaker 2>I think when I let lose, I let to lose,

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<v Speaker 2>and then people were coming over to the apartment and

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<v Speaker 2>they were like, it's too many dolls, you know. They

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<v Speaker 2>were like, put some we're being watched, you know. But

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<v Speaker 2>I also went through the phase and and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I was wrong to do this, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think they went in middle school. I went through

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<v Speaker 2>the phase where I wrote the Mattel Corporational letter. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I gone onto Microsoft word and I had a thing

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<v Speaker 2>or two to say about the body standards that Marbie encouraged.

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<v Speaker 1>With Clippy, like are you writing a letter?

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<v Speaker 2>Clippy was like, hey, Jamie, I support you fight the

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<v Speaker 2>power feminist icon and ally Clippy, I let's hope so God.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, non binary icon, Clippy, it's true. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I like wrote a strongly worded letter and then returned

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<v Speaker 2>to my Barbies to play so, you know, child or

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<v Speaker 2>full of shit? But yeah, I loved Barbie. I have

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of slides to this effect. I also saw

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<v Speaker 2>did anyone watch the Barbie animated movies? Yeah? One person? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you were either like my I didn't because they were like,

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<v Speaker 2>mostly there's me and my dolls. I'm actually this is

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<v Speaker 2>me on ludes and I was kind of intersects with

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<v Speaker 2>the second, but yeah, this is me on ludes with

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<v Speaker 2>all my handmaidown dolls. And then I want to share

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<v Speaker 2>some of my favorite haunted Barbies that I've learned about

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<v Speaker 2>in preparing for this episode. We could go to the

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<v Speaker 2>next slide. This is Chuck E Cheese Barbie. We have

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<v Speaker 2>two of them.

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<v Speaker 1>My god, I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't she great? She's wearing a Canadian tucks to go

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<v Speaker 2>to Chuck E Cheese alone. I can get behind that.

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<v Speaker 2>Next slide is Rosie Rosie o'donald Barbie. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>love it, you have to support it. I have her

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<v Speaker 2>at home. So that's my history with Barbie. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Should we talk about the movie?

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<v Speaker 2>I guess yeah we should. It's Caitlin's famous recap.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh right, Okay. The Barbie Movie opens on a reference

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<v Speaker 1>to two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, where narrator

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<v Speaker 1>Helen Mirren explains that for a long time, dolls were

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<v Speaker 1>always baby dolls, meaning that the little kids who played

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<v Speaker 1>with them could only ever play it being like mother

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<v Speaker 1>or parent, until Barbie dolls came along and changed everything

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<v Speaker 1>because Barbie she's got money, she's got a house, she's

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<v Speaker 1>got a car, she's got a career.

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<v Speaker 2>They girl boss her right away. I love how it's

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<v Speaker 2>like it starts with this really funny parody and then

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<v Speaker 2>it immediately goes to amercial. You're just like, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>this is what the movie is. I think it's so funny.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've seen so many i don't know, like kind

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<v Speaker 2>of twitter pilled criticisms. They're like, this movie's so corporated,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a commercial. I'm like, yeah, it's a Barbie movie. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you taking about? And then they're like, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna go watch Fast and Furious, which is definitely not

0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 2>a commercial.

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, Yes, okay, So Barbie she's got it all.

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.400
<v Speaker 1>She can be anything, which means that women can be

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.200
<v Speaker 1>anything and all the problems of feminism and equal rights

0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 1>have been solved, or at least that's what the Barbie's

0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.679
<v Speaker 1>in Barbie Land think. And so we cut to barbieland

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 1>we meet Margo Robbie as stereotypical Barbie. She's perfect, she

0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.880
<v Speaker 1>lives in her dream house. She has so many Barbie friends,

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>some of them are played by Isa Ray Alexander Ship,

0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Emma Mackie to name a few. That's what I wrote

0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 1>down in my notes.

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Brave, thank you, and we already we get the foot

0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>shot right away and immediately we're just like Quentin Tarantino

0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:11.199
<v Speaker 2>dead in a ditch. I was like, Wow, a footshot

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:12.920
<v Speaker 2>that is also moving the plot forward.

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 5>This wasn't that hard, wouldn't be because when Quentina what

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:29.360
<v Speaker 5>did I say when when Quentin Tarantino showed this very

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 5>actor's foot in a different movie.

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Aka, Once upon a Time in Hollywood?

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 2>It was for It was for no reason's whole. Yeah. Anyways,

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Wow, the Wiki feet community really won

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 2>with that one. We checked Margaret Robbie's Wiki feet on

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.360
<v Speaker 2>stage last night because I just like to keep up

0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 2>with the community, and she has the first perfect score

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 2>I've ever seen. Wow. Fine, you don't have to pretend

0:14:56.160 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>to care. It's fine. I thought it was interesting and

0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 2>we can move on.

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, So Barbie gets ready for her day.

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 2>She heads to.

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Beach because that's where the that's where the Ken's hang

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.880
<v Speaker 1>out because Ken's job is beach of his beach.

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 2>And we meet.

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Ryan Gosling Ken, who is stereotypical Barbie's boyfriend. We meet

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 1>some other Kens as well as Alan played by Michael

0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Sarah shut out Alan. He's an ally.

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 2>He's an Alan and he's an Ally. It's a perfect

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.520
<v Speaker 2>Barbie archival. They're like, remember this guy, he just wore

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Ken's clothes for a couple of years. I didn't know

0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>about Alan until the movie. Have you heard of him?

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Heard of him?

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.400
<v Speaker 2>But now I can never forget. He stands at the

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.360
<v Speaker 2>edge of my bed. I have sleep, per.

0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So Ryan Gosling Ken is very insecure and all

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 1>of his worth is entirely at attached to how much

0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Barbie likes him and how much attention she pays to him.

0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Then she invites him to her party that night, where

0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.760
<v Speaker 1>all the Barbiees and all the Kens are dancing and

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>it's a great time until Barbie says, do you guys

0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>ever think about dying? And everyone's like what?

0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 2>But but they do know what dying dying is? Who

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:31.240
<v Speaker 2>told them?

0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Who told them? They also know what genitals are and

0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 1>that they don't have them, And that makes you think

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 1>how they know about that?

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I don't know, I would let Yeah, they're aware

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of complexity, but they're wilfully ignorant of it. Sure,

0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 2>so it is like not too different from our world

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>in that way.

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, So this is the start of some weird

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 1>things happening for Barbie, Like she steps out of her

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 1>high heels and her FeCO flat instead of staying in

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 1>like tiptoe shape. So Barbie goes to Weird Barbie played

0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.800
<v Speaker 1>by Kate McKinnon to see what's going on, and Weird

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Barbie tells her that there's a rift between Barbieland and

0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 1>the real world and whoever is playing with her in

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.119
<v Speaker 1>the real world must be sad and is projecting that

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.199
<v Speaker 1>sadness onto Barbie. So Barbie has to go into the

0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>real world to fix it. So she leaves Barbieland via

0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 1>various modes of transportation and a very fun montage, but

0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.560
<v Speaker 1>she realizes that Ken has stowed away with her and

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 1>wants to come, and she reluctantly lets him tag along.

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:42.360
<v Speaker 1>Then they arrive in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:45.320
<v Speaker 5>They have?

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.879
<v Speaker 2>We have, That's why she said that.

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.120
<v Speaker 1>And they notice that things seem to be reversed where

0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.560
<v Speaker 1>it's men who have all the power and privilege and

0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.439
<v Speaker 1>opportunity in this world and when and have very little

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.560
<v Speaker 1>of those things. Barbie sets out to find the girl

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.919
<v Speaker 1>who's playing with her, and she sees visions of a

0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>girl playing with Barbie's. Then the girl becomes a teen

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and she has a difficult relationship.

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:13.920
<v Speaker 2>With her mom.

0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Meanwhile, Ken is walking around Century City and he discovers

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 1>patriarchy and horses.

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 2>I really the images to represent patriarchy are really it's like,

0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:35.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, patriarchy, Three Sylvesters, Still, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan,

0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Minnie Fridge, yup yup horse telling a woman to go away,

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 2>And you're like, all right, it's a I really love that.

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's feminism one on one, but even it resonates,

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it works. This also begins a split in

0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 2>the movie that continues throughout, which is that Ken is

0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 2>doing something fun and funny and Barbie is elsewhere crying.

0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.160
<v Speaker 2>This Yes, this becomes a big theme through the movie.

0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes I'm like, we gotta we gotta like, cunt

0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.359
<v Speaker 2>this lady a break. Oh my god, she's weeping seriously

0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and she's not. I'm not judging her for that. Bad

0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.320
<v Speaker 2>things keep happening to her. It's too close to home.

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.960
<v Speaker 1>I have mixed feelings because it's like, yes, I also

0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 1>cry under the patriarchy all the time, but I also

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:24.359
<v Speaker 1>have fun.

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 2>I also horse. It's like major horse girl erasure when

0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.879
<v Speaker 2>you think about it. Yeah, you know why doesn't Barbie

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:40.159
<v Speaker 2>love horse? Horse? Barbie famously loves horse. Hello, she's a Barbie.

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.359
<v Speaker 2>Barbie loves horse. And then that American girl do all

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 2>loves horse? Wait? Which one, Felicity?

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.080
<v Speaker 1>Someone else said it for three people?

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we have some bas I was a Kirsten Wow.

0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she had the loopy braids. Remember I no one

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 1>cares well. Carsten was kind of a mid one.

0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:14.120
<v Speaker 2>I was a kit Kittridge girl, little miss reporter during

0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:19.119
<v Speaker 2>the Great Depression, and then when and then when I

0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:24.400
<v Speaker 2>got really depressed during lockdown, I bought another one. Melody.

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.680
<v Speaker 2>She's a motown singer from the sixties. Whoa These ones

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't exist when I was. They know, they exist for

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.600
<v Speaker 2>like children. Now I shouldn't have it, Okay, okay, but

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.639
<v Speaker 2>I love her. She's one of the many watching eyes

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.199
<v Speaker 2>in my own all right.

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:46.880
<v Speaker 1>So Ken discovers patriarchy and he freaking loves it. Then

0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:51.320
<v Speaker 1>we cut two Mattel Headquarters, where the CEO Mattel, played

0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.680
<v Speaker 1>by Will Ferrell, learns that a Barbie and a Ken

0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:59.320
<v Speaker 1>have escaped into the real world. This is overheard by

0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Will Ferrell's executive assistant, Gloria played by America Fererra, who

0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:09.119
<v Speaker 1>is like doodling and designing new Barbies such as Irrepressible

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Thoughts of Death Barbie and full body Cellulate Barbie, and

0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 1>we're like, hmm, is there a connection here? Then we

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.439
<v Speaker 1>cut back to Barbie and Ken at a school where

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:26.679
<v Speaker 1>Barbie approaches the girl from her vision. Her name is

0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Sasha played by Ariana Greenblat, but rather than the warm

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.520
<v Speaker 1>welcome that Barbie was expecting, Sasha is like, hey, Barbie,

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.120
<v Speaker 1>you've been making girls feel terrible about themselves for decades.

0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Is like, dear Mattel, yeah, I have some strong feelings

0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 2>about Barbara Millicon Roberts and it's not wrong. And a

0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Clippi was like, are you writing a letter?

0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.879
<v Speaker 1>H and so she's like, yeah, you make girls feel

0:21:56.920 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 1>horrible about themselves and you're a fascist.

0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:04.160
<v Speaker 2>And then once again we have Ryan Gosling looking at horses,

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.919
<v Speaker 2>Barbie crying crying, yes, yes.

0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.720
<v Speaker 1>So then Ken heads back to Barbieland to teach the

0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:17.000
<v Speaker 1>other Kens what he learned about patriarchy. Meanwhile with Barbie.

0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.520
<v Speaker 1>So some guys show up who work at Mattel to

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 1>take her back to Mattel headquarters, but Barbie is uneasy

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>about the whole thing. She doesn't trust Will Ferrell, so

0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.919
<v Speaker 1>she runs away. As she's escaping, she stumbles upon a

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 1>woman named Ruth played by Rhea Pearlman. They have a

0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 1>quick conversation and then Barbie escapes from the Mattel building.

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this is when it kind of it's kind

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.879
<v Speaker 2>of established that in this world, Rea Pearlman is God

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.640
<v Speaker 2>and that yes really works for me, makes sense. There's

0:22:46.720 --> 0:22:48.879
<v Speaker 2>like that moment where they're doing the Sistine Chapel thing

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.760
<v Speaker 2>where she like passes her the tea cup and you're like, whoa,

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.359
<v Speaker 2>this is getting And then I went and there's all

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.800
<v Speaker 2>these Book of Genesis references. It's a you know, the

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>discourse around this movie is a fucking disaster, but you

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 2>can find the clickbait about like is Barbie the Book

0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.159
<v Speaker 2>of Genesis? And then I read it and I was

0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of sweet, Yeah, I was like I get it.

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Barbie Land the Garden of Eating, the you know you

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.800
<v Speaker 2>can get Yeah, I don't want to talk about it,

0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.239
<v Speaker 2>but you can see that out on your own if

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:22.800
<v Speaker 2>you want, okay.

0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.239
<v Speaker 1>So Barbie escapes the Matila building and she's picked up

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 1>by Gloria and Sasha because Gloria is Sasha's mother, and

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Barbie realizes that it wasn't Sasha's memories she was seeing,

0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:33.880
<v Speaker 1>it was Gloria's.

0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 2>I love this scene because it's a lot of like

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:41.280
<v Speaker 2>characters connecting an exposition intercut with car commercial. It's really fun.

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.080
<v Speaker 2>It's really like people are like dunking on this scene

0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 2>and you're just like, fuck you, I don't know. I

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 2>think it's funny. And Greta Gerwig didn't even direct the

0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.400
<v Speaker 2>car shots. She was like, someone else can tink here,

0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:54.880
<v Speaker 2>that's not my problem.

0:23:55.080 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 1>She's like, who directed Fast and the Furious. We get

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:05.480
<v Speaker 1>him for a day, all right. So they figure out

0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.440
<v Speaker 1>this connection between them. They dodge the Mattel executives and

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:11.399
<v Speaker 1>they need a place to hide, so the three of

0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:17.159
<v Speaker 1>them go to Barbieland. When they arrive, though, Barbieland is different,

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 1>it's not a place full of women's leadership and empowerment.

0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.480
<v Speaker 1>It is now a ken driven society.

0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 2>They start with like the scene from Top Gun. They're

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:27.719
<v Speaker 2>doing Top Gun volume.

0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Wait, yeah, all the Barbies are now like subservient to

0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 1>the Ken's needs.

0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Ken has Stevens's brother is running for president.

0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Ye.

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Ken has basically just infected barbiland with patriarchy and horses.

0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 1>He's turned Barbie's dream house into Ken's Mojo Dojo Casa house.

0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:52.800
<v Speaker 1>He's brainwashed all the Barbies all of that. So Barbie

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>is horrified and devastated, and she's crying again.

0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:59.120
<v Speaker 2>She is crying again, and she's and this time there's

0:24:59.160 --> 0:24:59.840
<v Speaker 2>no coming back.

0:25:00.440 --> 0:25:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah no. So eventually she and Gloria and Sasha pay

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a visit to Weird Barbie to figure out what to do.

0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:10.800
<v Speaker 2>I feel like Weird Barbie is kind of like a

0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:14.600
<v Speaker 2>friendly Grinch figure where she lives on the outskirts of

0:25:14.600 --> 0:25:17.199
<v Speaker 2>town at the top of a mountain. It's like if

0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you went to the Grinch's house and he was like, hey,

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I know you hate me, but that's all good.

0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:26.879
<v Speaker 1>Weird Barbie is also like Morpheus from the Matrix, like

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 1>here's your two choices, Red Pillar, blue Pill.

0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>And then I just feel like, I don't know, there's

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:34.639
<v Speaker 2>a version of this movie to me where like Weird

0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Barbie gets like a laser gun and tries to like

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:40.840
<v Speaker 2>exact revenge on the Barbies that have been talking shit

0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 2>about her. I kind of want that for her. She's

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.040
<v Speaker 2>really taking it lying down.

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, justice for weird Barbie.

0:25:48.720 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 2>At the end the she's like, can I be the

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Queen of Garbage and and he's he's like, yeah, sure

0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:55.920
<v Speaker 2>you can be garbage.

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I want so much more. Yeah for her.

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.719
<v Speaker 1>So they all figure out a plan to unbrainwash the

0:26:04.720 --> 0:26:09.719
<v Speaker 1>Barbies and regain control of Barbieland via a series of

0:26:09.760 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 1>feminist monologues from Gloria and it works. And now the

0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Barbies have to get the Kens to turn on each other,

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:24.760
<v Speaker 1>which they do by making them jealous of each other

0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 1>via them playing guitar at the Barbies doing match Bugs

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:32.919
<v Speaker 1>twenty covers.

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:35.639
<v Speaker 2>It's too easy, but I laugh every time.

0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:40.000
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny. This is also where we get Ryan

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:43.359
<v Speaker 1>Gosling singing I'm just Ken. Then the Kens go to

0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:47.280
<v Speaker 1>war with each other. During the battle, like while they're distracted,

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the Barbies go to the White House or the Pink House,

0:26:50.040 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess, and they're like, okay, let's vote to regain constitution.

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:04.240
<v Speaker 1>So they regain control of Barbieland. And then Barbie and

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Ken have a conversation where for some reason she apologizes

0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:09.679
<v Speaker 1>to him.

0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:12.359
<v Speaker 2>And he says, thanks for saying that. I was like

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:18.879
<v Speaker 2>you motherfucker. Literally, I that is like a point in

0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:22.119
<v Speaker 2>this movie that I am so baffled by. Want I

0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 2>have to like, I have to blame it on studio

0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 2>notes in my mind, because it doesn't make sense to

0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 2>me that like in the previous scene, we have like

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:34.080
<v Speaker 2>this brief sort of quiet scene with America Ferrera and

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Margot Robbie and America Frere is like, he is trying

0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:40.359
<v Speaker 2>to take over the government. He stole your house, you

0:27:40.400 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 2>brainwash your friends, and Margot Robbie Barbie's like, yeah, that's right,

0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:45.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to feel bad for him. And then

0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:47.280
<v Speaker 2>in the next thing, she's like, I'm so sorry for

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:51.280
<v Speaker 2>the perceived slight and then he's like, well, you shouldn't

0:27:51.320 --> 0:27:54.479
<v Speaker 2>have done that. Why I stole your house?

0:27:54.600 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, and then on top of that, she goes

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.800
<v Speaker 1>on to do a lot of emotional labor to be like, Ken,

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 1>it's time for you to discover who you are outside

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:08.719
<v Speaker 1>of your relationship to me, and he's like okay, and

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 1>then again no apology, not even a thank you.

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:15.240
<v Speaker 2>No, he pays it forward to the other Kens. Yes,

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:17.680
<v Speaker 2>and she's also I mean she's doing emotional labor for

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.240
<v Speaker 2>him the whole time, like from the first frame he's

0:28:20.280 --> 0:28:23.520
<v Speaker 2>in where he's like, am I cool, She's.

0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:29.119
<v Speaker 1>Like like yes, okay. So then some changes are made to

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:33.880
<v Speaker 1>barbieland such as weird Barbie is allowed to integrate into

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:37.399
<v Speaker 1>Barbie society yea. Some of the Kens are also given

0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.800
<v Speaker 1>a tiny bit of political power. And then Will Ferrell

0:28:40.880 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and the other Mattel executives have arrived in barbieland to

0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:48.320
<v Speaker 1>close the portal between the two worlds. I don't even

0:28:48.360 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 1>know why they're there, but get them out out of

0:28:51.040 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Barbie Land. And then Sasha is like, well what about Barbie,

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Like what's her ending? And Barbie doesn't really know what

0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:02.640
<v Speaker 1>she wants. But the woman from earlier, Ruth, appears again.

0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 1>She turns out to be Ruth Handler, inventor of the

0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Barbie Doll Wow, And then she and Barbie have another

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:17.160
<v Speaker 1>conversation that helps Barbie realize that maybe she's not Barbie anymore,

0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 1>and maybe she wants to be where the people are

0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 1>she wants to see, wants to see them dancing, okay.

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:30.440
<v Speaker 2>And then no, no, no, whole song please Okay, yeah,

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:34.280
<v Speaker 2>what do you call them feet? And then we see

0:29:34.280 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the Quentin Tarantina shot again. It's perfect, perfect.

0:29:39.600 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 1>And then she becomes human and the movie ends in

0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles with Gloria and Sasha dropping Barbie off at

0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.120
<v Speaker 1>a gynecologist appointment. Not how I would have ended, a

0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:51.959
<v Speaker 1>little bitter.

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Essentialism there, but that's the movie. That's the movie. Wow,

0:29:57.440 --> 0:30:13.040
<v Speaker 2>thanks Caitlin. Yeah, so before we get started, because there

0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:16.080
<v Speaker 2>is some reference to Barbie history here, I'm putting my

0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>weird hobby to use and I'm going to share a

0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>little bit of Barbie history with you. So if we

0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>could get up the Ruth Handler. Okay, so that's the

0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 2>real Ruth Handler. She is a co founder of Mattel

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:34.240
<v Speaker 2>and the creator of Barbie. She was like one of

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the few women working in toys in the nineteen forties

0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 2>as well as one of the only Jewish women working

0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 2>in toys in the nineteen forties. And she co founded

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Mattel with two other men, her husband Elliott, and a

0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 2>guy named Matthew. And they made the name of the

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>company a combination of matt and Elliott. No Ruth to

0:30:55.800 --> 0:31:02.560
<v Speaker 2>be seen. They will pay because they died, so did

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 2>she in any case, I'm a Ruth fan. They originally

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:12.400
<v Speaker 2>make a bunch of other toy products, and she keeps

0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>pitching this idea of an adult fashioned doll with boobs,

0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:22.000
<v Speaker 2>and male executives are like, boobs on a doll, you're

0:31:22.000 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>a pervert, and so she's not allowed to make it

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.920
<v Speaker 2>for years and years because boobs on a doll, you're

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a pervert. Eventually she sees this German doll called bill

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Lily that has boobs, and then the men are like,

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:37.640
<v Speaker 2>all right, well, if one man thought it was a

0:31:37.640 --> 0:31:41.000
<v Speaker 2>good idea, I guess we could do it. So they

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 2>make Barbie. They name it after her daughter, Barbara, who's

0:31:45.760 --> 0:31:50.560
<v Speaker 2>in the next slide here. I believe, Yes, there's Barbara,

0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>there's Barbie. She originally fucking hated Barbie's as is her right,

0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:59.120
<v Speaker 2>She's like, mother, how could you? But yeah, there's like

0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:02.400
<v Speaker 2>a few biographs details given about Ruth and the movie

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 2>that are all true, including I think she says I'm

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:10.040
<v Speaker 2>a tiny woman with a double misseectomy and tax evation issues.

0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:13.040
<v Speaker 2>All of these are true. She was technically sentenced to

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:18.880
<v Speaker 2>forty five years in prison. Jordan Belfoort vibe, I know

0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:22.960
<v Speaker 2>and like Jordan Belfort. She was a wealthy white person

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and did not actually serve I think any time in prison.

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:29.360
<v Speaker 2>She got community service, which is horseshit. And also she

0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:34.040
<v Speaker 2>defrauded rich people, so we were like, well, yeah, in

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:36.800
<v Speaker 2>any case, she didn't go to jail, but she was

0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.440
<v Speaker 2>forced to resign from Mattel. And what she pivoted to

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 2>then is she had had a double misseectomy. She was

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 2>a two time breast cancer survivor and had spoken publicly

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.760
<v Speaker 2>about having self esteem issues after the last of her breasts,

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 2>and so she invented a second really successful product that

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:55.800
<v Speaker 2>was sort of a I don't know how to describe

0:32:55.840 --> 0:32:59.280
<v Speaker 2>this product correctly, but it was basically like fake boobs

0:32:59.280 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 2>that you could put on like a bra if you'd

0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:03.560
<v Speaker 2>had a missectomy. You could get it in one, you

0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:05.760
<v Speaker 2>could get into both whatever you needed. And that was

0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 2>really successful as well. And yeah, she was, you know, scammer,

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 2>criminal who had two really successful intentions.

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 1>From from Barbie to Brobbie.

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Don't encourage that. No, it was good.

0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:26.120
<v Speaker 1>It was good, and some people liked it because I

0:33:26.400 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 1>stared at them.

0:33:27.440 --> 0:33:29.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I think it's all because we can

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:34.120
<v Speaker 2>see them. But yeah, there Barbie and Ken re named

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:37.640
<v Speaker 2>after her kids, Barbara and Kenneth. They both hated the dolls. Uh.

0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>They got a good settlement when they died anyways. Uh.

0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:45.800
<v Speaker 2>And then Ruth Ruth sort of that her sort of

0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 2>end of life reflection was that her whole life had

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:54.280
<v Speaker 2>revolved around titties and that hadn't been intentional. So she's

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:56.960
<v Speaker 2>really cool. I'm glad that they included her in the movie,

0:33:57.000 --> 0:34:00.280
<v Speaker 2>and like referenced her is a corporate propaganda absolutely is,

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.959
<v Speaker 2>but she was a cool lady. I was hoping because

0:34:04.000 --> 0:34:09.320
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I understand was probably necessary

0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:11.320
<v Speaker 2>for the movie to be made, but I find really

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.719
<v Speaker 2>annoying and poorly handled is the CEO character and the

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:18.920
<v Speaker 2>CEO narrative. I wish that they had instead brought in

0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:23.560
<v Speaker 2>other figures from Barbie history, because there's so many interesting

0:34:23.640 --> 0:34:27.640
<v Speaker 2>people and I want to spotlight one right now. This

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:32.879
<v Speaker 2>next slide is Kittie Black Perkins. She was the lead

0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>designer of Barbie for twenty five years from the eighties

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 2>into the early two thousands. She's really cool. I feel

0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:44.680
<v Speaker 2>like she's really under discussed. She designed the first black Barbie.

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 2>She was yeah, and she was also the first black

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Barbie designer at all and sort of was a huge

0:34:55.719 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 2>advocate for getting more diversity within the Mattal company to

0:35:00.400 --> 0:35:02.400
<v Speaker 2>I think I have a next slide of some of

0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.520
<v Speaker 2>her most famous creations. Yes, I definitely had that ball

0:35:05.600 --> 0:35:09.240
<v Speaker 2>on the right. She also did a really cool series

0:35:09.280 --> 0:35:11.680
<v Speaker 2>that I was too young to have encountered, but there.

0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:14.920
<v Speaker 2>It's called The Marvelous World of Shawnee and it was

0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:18.799
<v Speaker 2>the first Barbie collection that was entirely black women of

0:35:18.840 --> 0:35:21.960
<v Speaker 2>different skin tones and hair textures, and it was really

0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:25.640
<v Speaker 2>really cool, and she had this incredible impact on the company.

0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:28.200
<v Speaker 2>And I just wish that instead of a room full

0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 2>of men, we had, you know, brought people like Katie

0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Black Perkins into the mix, because she is a really

0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 2>important part of Barbie history and we don't really see

0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:40.279
<v Speaker 2>her or many prominent characters who are not white in

0:35:40.520 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 2>this movie. And so that's that brings us James Barbie

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:49.840
<v Speaker 2>history section. Wow. Thank you, Wow. A round of a pause,

0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:56.239
<v Speaker 2>because it's like it's giving hostage situations. All right. I

0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:57.839
<v Speaker 2>think if you go to the next slide, I think

0:35:57.840 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 2>we're back in the dream house. Yeah, here we are.

0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Yes, No, but you just touched on something that is

0:36:04.520 --> 0:36:07.359
<v Speaker 1>a big part of the discussion around this movie. So

0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:11.359
<v Speaker 1>the movie came out, people watched it, and I don't

0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:12.799
<v Speaker 1>know why I had to people.

0:36:12.560 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Watch explain that and then and then what happened. But

0:36:15.719 --> 0:36:18.600
<v Speaker 2>then and then and then people had some thoughts about it.

0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:20.000
<v Speaker 2>But did they write them down?

0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:22.560
<v Speaker 1>They did, and then they also said them out loud,

0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:25.120
<v Speaker 1>oh thank you, and a lot of a lot of

0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the criticism around this movie was it's feminism, one oh one,

0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 1>it's it's white feminism the movie. We need a more

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:37.280
<v Speaker 1>nuanced and intersectional approach to discussing feminism in media, and

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.480
<v Speaker 1>that is very, very true. I don't disagree with that

0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:43.360
<v Speaker 1>at all, but I have mixed feelings about it because

0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:46.919
<v Speaker 1>the world, most of the people in it, I think,

0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 1>still need a lesson, like a feminist one oh one lesson.

0:36:51.200 --> 0:36:52.160
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know.

0:36:52.200 --> 0:36:55.400
<v Speaker 1>I was just like, Okay, pretty cool that a enormous

0:36:55.400 --> 0:37:00.239
<v Speaker 1>blockbuster movie with a huge budget, huge studio backing, about

0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:07.319
<v Speaker 1>a very famous product tackled patriarchy and examined feminism. The

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:09.880
<v Speaker 1>big problem with it, yes, is that it has like

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:14.680
<v Speaker 1>sort of the facade of inclusion because of some of

0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the characters. But those characters are very much on the

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:25.120
<v Speaker 1>periphery and it still centers the like epitome of like

0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Western beauty, standard whiteness, blonde hair, thinness, like all the stuff,

0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and it's peepee poo poos what I'm getting at.

0:37:37.680 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we feel pretty similarly about this. I

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.960
<v Speaker 2>feel like it's having to hold a bunch of truths

0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:47.640
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, which, if you're having a discussion online,

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.399
<v Speaker 2>is famously not possible. It's like, all of a sudden,

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:53.680
<v Speaker 2>someone's threatening to kill you, you know, but no, no

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:55.799
<v Speaker 2>one threatened to kill me over the Barbie movie because

0:37:55.800 --> 0:38:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I kept my mouth shutting. Wow, I minded my own business. No,

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:05.319
<v Speaker 2>I think that. Yeah, I agree that. I think that

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.799
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the as I was like, going back

0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:11.880
<v Speaker 2>through my knowledge of Barbie history, I feel like a

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of the issues with the movie with inclusion are

0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 2>the same issues that Barbie has with inclusion. Right where

0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:21.399
<v Speaker 2>there has been progress, there have been attempts, there has

0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:25.440
<v Speaker 2>been motion forward, and like the company has to some extent,

0:38:25.560 --> 0:38:29.240
<v Speaker 2>taken notes about I think most recently, there was a

0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:34.080
<v Speaker 2>discussion around ableism with Barbie's and there has been discussions

0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:37.760
<v Speaker 2>around race with Barbie. There's been discussions around body types

0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:40.840
<v Speaker 2>with Barbie, and it's slowly changed over time, but it

0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:46.480
<v Speaker 2>still always centers the thin, blonde, white woman, and I

0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:49.279
<v Speaker 2>think that that's also what this movie is doing. And

0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm thrilled that we have I think it's like I'm

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 2>thrilled that we have so many amazing barbies, and I'm

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:56.719
<v Speaker 2>also frustrated that we don't get more of them, you know.

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:59.319
<v Speaker 2>But in the same way, I think you're totally right.

0:38:59.360 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 2>The way that people have talked about this movie feels disingenuous,

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:05.520
<v Speaker 2>in the same way that, like I was saying earlier

0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.239
<v Speaker 2>that people were like, this movie's a commercial. I was like, yeah,

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:12.480
<v Speaker 2>not like Iron Man, which is an indie sleeper hit,

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:15.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like just it just feels really disingenuous the

0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 2>way people have approached the discussion where it's like I

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:22.359
<v Speaker 2>need to find a righteous reason to hate this, right,

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.720
<v Speaker 2>It's like you just don't like it, and that's okay,

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Like not everyone has to. I also feel like the

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:30.320
<v Speaker 2>reverse argument and a lot of the like we're not

0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:33.600
<v Speaker 2>going to get into the Oscars discourse because this episode

0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:35.359
<v Speaker 2>doesn't come out for a month and hopefully it will

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:38.840
<v Speaker 2>be very dated. But like the way that you know,

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:44.759
<v Speaker 2>like white feminists online will defend the most wealthy white

0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:46.799
<v Speaker 2>woman in the world against her will. You're just like,

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>what is this? Yeah, what am I looking at? But

0:39:50.040 --> 0:39:52.319
<v Speaker 2>in any case, I do, I do feel like it's

0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:55.760
<v Speaker 2>there are really valid criticisms to be made of this movie.

0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:58.880
<v Speaker 2>And also when we're talking about this movie as like

0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:04.400
<v Speaker 2>a blockbuster, which it is, the conversation is really pointedly different,

0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Like no one's having conversations like this around any other

0:40:07.560 --> 0:40:10.680
<v Speaker 2>blockbusterory that I can remember, which I think is cool.

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 2>It's different, But so there's also a lot of bullshit

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:15.319
<v Speaker 2>to sift through.

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:19.640
<v Speaker 1>This is the fourteenth highest grossing movie of all time.

0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:24.080
<v Speaker 1>If you look at the thirteen above it and probably

0:40:24.239 --> 0:40:28.200
<v Speaker 1>the one hundred below it, Like none of those movies

0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:31.879
<v Speaker 1>even acknowledge sexism or patriarchy or any of those things.

0:40:31.880 --> 0:40:35.719
<v Speaker 1>They probably all or most of them have a male protagonist,

0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Like they're not. Most of them are directed and written

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:40.280
<v Speaker 1>by men as well. They're not having the same conversation

0:40:40.360 --> 0:40:42.040
<v Speaker 1>this movie is doing. And as we always say, it's

0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:46.360
<v Speaker 1>not any one movie's responsibility to like change the world

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:49.759
<v Speaker 1>or be the be all end all thing when it

0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:54.600
<v Speaker 1>comes to discussing feminism. But the movie it missed many

0:40:54.680 --> 0:40:58.640
<v Speaker 1>opportunities to be more inclusive, to have more meaningful inclusion,

0:40:58.680 --> 0:41:02.319
<v Speaker 1>because again, you know, there's a Barbie played by a transactor,

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:06.360
<v Speaker 1>hard enough. There is a fat Barbie played by Sharon Rooney.

0:41:06.400 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 1>There is a disabled Barbie who uses a wheelchair. She's

0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:11.720
<v Speaker 1>played by Grace Harvey.

0:41:11.840 --> 0:41:13.480
<v Speaker 2>But we don't get to know her at all. She

0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 2>has no lines. Really, I think that like we don't

0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.719
<v Speaker 2>get to really know the Barbies. We get to meet

0:41:20.800 --> 0:41:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them, but outside of Marco, Robbie Barbie

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:28.080
<v Speaker 2>and Weird Barbie, you don't really get a distinct personality

0:41:28.120 --> 0:41:30.440
<v Speaker 2>for anybody, which is not true of the Kens. And

0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:33.560
<v Speaker 2>that is like my big issue with this movie. And

0:41:33.600 --> 0:41:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I really really like this movie. Like if we're just

0:41:36.440 --> 0:41:39.880
<v Speaker 2>going like Romp, can I watch it? Yes, yes, a

0:41:39.920 --> 0:41:40.520
<v Speaker 2>million times?

0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Tend out a tent on Caitlin's Rambo either it's the best.

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.400
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, when it comes to like, well, who has

0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.560
<v Speaker 2>most of the funny moments and who and which group

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.080
<v Speaker 2>has the more distinctive personalities and things to do, it's

0:41:56.440 --> 0:41:59.319
<v Speaker 2>the Ken's by a mile. Like I am never not

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:02.160
<v Speaker 2>going to be frustrated that the Barbies don't get their

0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:05.959
<v Speaker 2>own song, like the Ken's get this, and like I'm

0:42:06.040 --> 0:42:10.600
<v Speaker 2>just ken in my opinion, fucking rips. It's so good

0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:13.040
<v Speaker 2>it does. It was all my Spotify rapped and that's

0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:17.400
<v Speaker 2>so embarrassing, and and was it number one? I don't know,

0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.239
<v Speaker 2>but like that was so cool. And they got this

0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:24.759
<v Speaker 2>big studio like old school ballet move they got it,

0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:28.760
<v Speaker 2>like all this stuff, and meanwhile, Barbie is crying somewhere

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:32.880
<v Speaker 2>and we're just like this fucking sucks. I read somewhere

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:36.920
<v Speaker 2>that there was an original Uh there was a Barbie. Uh.

0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was a song because Marco

0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Robbie I don't think sings, but there was originally. I

0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:45.640
<v Speaker 2>only saw it written as like there was originally a

0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 2>fart opera? What what words did you say? I don't

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:53.640
<v Speaker 2>know if it was shot, but I was reading a

0:42:53.640 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 2>lot of I listened to the director's commentary for this movie,

0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:03.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Yeah I did. I didn't learn very much

0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the two things. It was mostly Greta GIRWGG being like, yeah,

0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:08.280
<v Speaker 2>so then this happens. I'm like I could just watch

0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:12.279
<v Speaker 2>the movie, but no. Greta Gerwy said there was originally

0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:16.040
<v Speaker 2>a fart opera that she was planning for the Barbies

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:18.080
<v Speaker 2>because they were like Discovery. I don't know if it

0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:19.680
<v Speaker 2>was in the real world or Barbie world, but they

0:43:19.680 --> 0:43:22.880
<v Speaker 2>figure out what farts are and then there's a Barbie

0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:25.600
<v Speaker 2>fart opera. Okay, So then I guess that she was

0:43:25.640 --> 0:43:27.799
<v Speaker 2>like and no one thought that was funny, so they

0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:29.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't end up in the movie. I'm like, I don't

0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.880
<v Speaker 2>know how I feel about that. I guess I would have,

0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:35.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, either way, the Barbies don't get a big number, yeah,

0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:36.360
<v Speaker 2>and the kNs do.

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.480
<v Speaker 1>And I was gonna say, fart opera, what is this

0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:41.480
<v Speaker 1>a Shrek movie?

0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:43.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:44.080
<v Speaker 1>There.

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.360
<v Speaker 2>The other thing I learned from the Greta Gerwig commentary

0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 2>that I really loved was that, you know, like there's

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.480
<v Speaker 2>a moment where, uh, usually it's dual lipa Mermaid, but

0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:56.400
<v Speaker 2>then suddenly it's John Cena Mermaid. I don't think Greta

0:43:56.440 --> 0:44:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Gerwig knows who John Cena is because he comes on

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:08.480
<v Speaker 2>screen and she goes, oh, John Senna, and she said

0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:10.680
<v Speaker 2>John Senna came in for the day, and that was

0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 2>so lovely. I had such a great time directing John Senna,

0:44:14.600 --> 0:44:17.799
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, wow, it has not reached her.

0:44:17.880 --> 0:44:20.279
<v Speaker 2>But I'm just like, yeah, I guess, like in the

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Gerwig bomb boc Households. Has anyone ever been like, let's

0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:28.680
<v Speaker 2>turn on WWE, I don't know it missed her? I really,

0:44:28.800 --> 0:44:30.560
<v Speaker 2>oh John Senna, no one ever tell her.

0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 1>They haven't watched Fast and the Furious eight and above

0:44:35.560 --> 0:44:37.440
<v Speaker 1>which one did see your peer in for the first time?

0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Nine? Oh wow, some people being ready.

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:46.480
<v Speaker 1>This is kind of you know, never underestimate your audience

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:55.600
<v Speaker 1>if it's not Hobs and Shaw. I don't care, but yeah, I.

0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Think like one of my big criticisms of the movie

0:44:58.920 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 2>is that the bar don't get to have as much

0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:02.160
<v Speaker 2>fun as they can see.

0:45:02.640 --> 0:45:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, and again, like all of the emotional

0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:09.560
<v Speaker 1>labor that Barbie is doing with Ken at the end,

0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:12.920
<v Speaker 1>and there is a point where Barbie is just less

0:45:12.960 --> 0:45:15.560
<v Speaker 1>active as a character in the back half of the movie,

0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:18.600
<v Speaker 1>but Gloria and Sasha sort of take over as the

0:45:18.600 --> 0:45:20.160
<v Speaker 1>more active female characters at.

0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Least and weird Barbie, I feel like the three of

0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:25.000
<v Speaker 2>them when when which Yeah, I didn't know how to

0:45:25.000 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 2>feel about that, but I'm like, oh, when I've been

0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:30.439
<v Speaker 2>having a depressive episode and three friends are like, all right,

0:45:31.280 --> 0:45:33.960
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna We're gonna make sure that they don't shut

0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:38.279
<v Speaker 2>your power off. You know it is nice. Yeah, but yeah,

0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 2>so she's really really active for the for the front

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:43.360
<v Speaker 2>half of the movie, but once she hits that wall,

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 2>not as much, but she comes back at the end,

0:45:45.560 --> 0:45:46.200
<v Speaker 2>she rallies.

0:45:46.239 --> 0:45:48.120
<v Speaker 1>She does come back and at the end of the day,

0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:51.520
<v Speaker 1>it is a movie about like a woman having a

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:52.799
<v Speaker 1>self discovery.

0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:55.439
<v Speaker 2>It's literally it's a she's a woman on the verge

0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>of a nervous breakdown. Yeah. Wow, And I here's my

0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:01.520
<v Speaker 2>other little thing. Okay, I think we should talk about

0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:04.040
<v Speaker 2>Gloria and Sasha because I think their dynamic is under

0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:08.279
<v Speaker 2>explored but also interesting. Sasha specifically, I feel like it's

0:46:08.440 --> 0:46:13.440
<v Speaker 2>very Okay, here's my Stanley Kubrick. I think I'll tell you. Okay,

0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I know I have a master's degreen screenwriting.

0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:17.480
<v Speaker 3>I would.

0:46:18.920 --> 0:46:24.160
<v Speaker 2>What I would never bring it up. Try me, Okay,

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Sasha's story can be boiled down to how I learned

0:46:27.600 --> 0:46:32.080
<v Speaker 2>to stop worrying and love the MATEL Corporation that is

0:46:32.120 --> 0:46:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Stanley kruperg gets okay, yes, because it's I think that

0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:38.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a really interesting dynamic between the mother and daughter.

0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:43.000
<v Speaker 2>It's frustratingly only like I think, well done. For about

0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.600
<v Speaker 2>ten minutes towards the end of the movie where when

0:46:46.640 --> 0:46:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Barbie gets depressed, you know, Sasha and Gloria. I just

0:46:50.960 --> 0:46:54.279
<v Speaker 2>want to keep saying America Ferarra, Sasha defends her mother

0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:58.480
<v Speaker 2>when Barbie is like you're useless or whatever the fuck

0:46:58.560 --> 0:47:02.799
<v Speaker 2>she says, and I liked that. I don't really know

0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:04.359
<v Speaker 2>what their conflict is. I feel like it's just sort

0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:07.400
<v Speaker 2>of pulling from like if you've been a teenage femme,

0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:11.719
<v Speaker 2>it's probably a dynamic you've had with your mom, and

0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:16.880
<v Speaker 2>so you're just it's just stop. I don't like the

0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:24.160
<v Speaker 2>movie Tantanic. I like naval history. Up. I'm a bar Storian.

0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm not horny. Stop up. That's kind of their Yeah,

0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:35.399
<v Speaker 2>But I really like those moments between them where they're

0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:38.000
<v Speaker 2>like learning to understand each other. She has to admit

0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>that her mom is cool, and then they go back,

0:47:41.200 --> 0:47:44.960
<v Speaker 2>but they do mostly exist in relation to Barbie as

0:47:45.000 --> 0:47:49.960
<v Speaker 2>like Barbie's assistant. And then America Ferra develops the Weapon

0:47:49.960 --> 0:47:52.120
<v Speaker 2>of mass Destruction, which is her speech.

0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 1>And I don't even have the energy to really go

0:47:56.640 --> 0:48:00.240
<v Speaker 1>into the speech and how it is like not very good,

0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:02.439
<v Speaker 1>but go back and listen to it.

0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:04.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like, here's what I'll say about this fee, I

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:08.080
<v Speaker 2>feel like the speech is I don't know. I don't

0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:11.160
<v Speaker 2>hate the speech. I was well performed. It was well performed.

0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 2>The words, however, I would have rewritten it. I didn't

0:48:16.040 --> 0:48:18.240
<v Speaker 2>mind the words. I feel like there was a lot missing,

0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:21.720
<v Speaker 2>which like the big thing that for this movie in general,

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:24.879
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it attempts to address patriarchy in certain ways,

0:48:24.880 --> 0:48:28.640
<v Speaker 2>but patriarchy is just like one element of the evils

0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:31.200
<v Speaker 2>of the world. Like we see this movie attempt to

0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:36.239
<v Speaker 2>address patriarchy while not addressing either white supremacy or capitalism,

0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:38.640
<v Speaker 2>which are the main things that intersect with it. So

0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I feel like the moments in this movie that feel

0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 2>hollow is because those two other things are being very

0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:50.600
<v Speaker 2>pointedly ignored, because if you're addressing white supremacy, then you

0:48:50.640 --> 0:48:54.280
<v Speaker 2>can't have mostly white leading characters, and if you address capitalism,

0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:58.320
<v Speaker 2>you can't have the Barbie movie. And so it feels

0:48:58.440 --> 0:49:03.600
<v Speaker 2>weirdly like I I appreciate elements of the like attempt

0:49:03.680 --> 0:49:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to boil patriarchy down to a simple and effective speech,

0:49:07.960 --> 0:49:09.880
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, I don't know, I could take her

0:49:09.960 --> 0:49:12.160
<v Speaker 2>leave parts of it. But I also I saw this

0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:14.279
<v Speaker 2>movie in theaters a couple of times, and there was

0:49:14.320 --> 0:49:17.279
<v Speaker 2>always someone bawling their eyes out, and so I was like,

0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to take that from people like I.

0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:23.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, the moms were really in their bag with that.

0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:27.759
<v Speaker 2>My mom was My mom was sobbing. My mom was

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:29.839
<v Speaker 2>sobbing during that, and I was like, Okay, that's enough.

0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:38.880
<v Speaker 2>And then you're embarrassing me in the movie. And then

0:49:38.960 --> 0:49:41.279
<v Speaker 2>at the end, I don't think I've told you this.

0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>And then at the end there's another attempted profound movement moment.

0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:48.040
<v Speaker 2>The speech worked on my mom. The second profound moment,

0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:50.879
<v Speaker 2>she was mad. It was at the end when Rhea

0:49:50.960 --> 0:49:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Perlman says we mothers stand still, so are we can

0:49:54.880 --> 0:49:57.120
<v Speaker 2>stand back and see how my mom was like, I

0:49:57.160 --> 0:50:02.120
<v Speaker 2>would never stand still. I was, It's like, that's true.

0:50:02.960 --> 0:50:08.359
<v Speaker 2>I've certainly never seen you stand still, even when I've

0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:14.160
<v Speaker 2>specifically requested it. And she's like, I think that's so regressive.

0:50:14.200 --> 0:50:21.600
<v Speaker 2>You should say that on bechdelcast, which I agree with.

0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that that line genuinely sucks. The speech was

0:50:23.840 --> 0:50:25.680
<v Speaker 2>a hit or miss for me. I appreciate that it

0:50:25.719 --> 0:50:27.799
<v Speaker 2>resonated for people. Did it need to be published in

0:50:27.800 --> 0:50:31.680
<v Speaker 2>the newspaper? No, that's so goofy and embarrassing. And I

0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know. So many things that are embarrassing to me

0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.920
<v Speaker 2>about this movie involved the reaction to it versus like

0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:41.560
<v Speaker 2>what I'm actually watching. I don't know. Yes, I feel like, okay,

0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:44.240
<v Speaker 2>this is super super picky. But the America Freire speech,

0:50:44.400 --> 0:50:46.560
<v Speaker 2>for some reason, I feels like fifteen percent. It goes

0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 2>like fifteen percent longer than you expect it to, and

0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:51.480
<v Speaker 2>I kind of want her to, like I feel like

0:50:51.480 --> 0:50:54.440
<v Speaker 2>there's a good sketch in like her pausing and then

0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:57.560
<v Speaker 2>continuing and being like, you can play one video game,

0:50:57.560 --> 0:51:04.080
<v Speaker 2>but you can't play two video games. You can you

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.000
<v Speaker 2>can go to CVS, but you don't have an extra

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 2>care card. Like it's just like because it's like such

0:51:09.640 --> 0:51:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a you get like in that cadence, you can say

0:51:13.120 --> 0:51:18.920
<v Speaker 2>fucking whatever, and my mom would be weeping, Like you

0:51:18.920 --> 0:51:21.000
<v Speaker 2>can go to McDonald's, but you can't get a happy

0:51:21.040 --> 0:51:26.880
<v Speaker 2>meal because you're a grown up and no one respects you.

0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Wow, it's so true.

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:31.560
<v Speaker 2>It's so true. No, it's not true. You can get

0:51:31.560 --> 0:51:33.640
<v Speaker 2>a happy mind do it?

0:51:34.360 --> 0:51:34.400
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, anyway, okay, so uh talk about oh hi, hello,

0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:48.759
<v Speaker 2>someone's getting parasocial in the friend, you saw, you saw

0:51:48.840 --> 0:51:56.600
<v Speaker 2>an opportunity and you see stick. Yes, I did notice that.

0:51:58.200 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 1>I think Gloria's name is only spoken one in the

0:52:02.840 --> 0:52:06.360
<v Speaker 1>whole movie, and it's in passing. Yeah, yeah, so the

0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:08.399
<v Speaker 1>whole I was like, what is her character's name? Because

0:52:08.440 --> 0:52:11.399
<v Speaker 1>I missed it every single time I all, like four

0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:12.880
<v Speaker 1>or five times I've watched this movie.

0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's fair. I mean I feel like that also

0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:19.000
<v Speaker 2>speaks to like how even though Gloria and Sasha are

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:22.120
<v Speaker 2>prominent characters, you don't actually know that much about them,

0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:23.799
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of what you know about them is

0:52:23.880 --> 0:52:27.440
<v Speaker 2>just based on what you understand about parent child dynamics,

0:52:27.480 --> 0:52:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Like so much is not actually there. It's just like

0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 2>relying on what you may have experienced to like sort

0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:36.160
<v Speaker 2>of fill in the gaps of what might be there.

0:52:36.920 --> 0:52:39.400
<v Speaker 2>I do love her due lingo husband and that's America,

0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. And that's America Prayer's real husband. Yeah, yes, yeah,

0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:52.400
<v Speaker 2>his name is whatever, who cares? I did write it down.

0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:55.600
<v Speaker 1>But you would never support a man, So it's just

0:52:55.680 --> 0:53:00.960
<v Speaker 1>dad exactly. Also when he says which has to be

0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:04.839
<v Speaker 1>a reference to God to kick out? Yes, absolutely, Well,

0:53:05.080 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 1>while we're talking about our favorite jokes, when Will Ferrell

0:53:09.400 --> 0:53:12.480
<v Speaker 1>CEO is like if humans went to barbie Land, or

0:53:12.480 --> 0:53:15.919
<v Speaker 1>if Barbies came into the real world, things would happen

0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:19.279
<v Speaker 1>beyond what your wildest dreams could ever imagine. And then

0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Jamie Jamie Demetrio, best person alive. I love him so much.

0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:28.880
<v Speaker 1>If he's listening, marry me. Stath LEDs Flats is the

0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:30.399
<v Speaker 1>best show ever anyone's seen, it.

0:53:31.840 --> 0:53:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Said the single wo Meanwhile, forty percent of this audience

0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:41.440
<v Speaker 2>is seen every Fast and the Furious. Just collecting data.

0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Jamie Demetrio hot, He replies to like, oh, what

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:49.360
<v Speaker 1>could we possibly imagine? And he says, a podcast hosted

0:53:49.400 --> 0:53:51.320
<v Speaker 1>by two wise trees.

0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Podcast?

0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:59.000
<v Speaker 1>What is the Bechtel Cast podcast? But a podcast hosted

0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:01.000
<v Speaker 1>by two wise trees? If you were a tree, Jamie,

0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:01.880
<v Speaker 1>what tree would you be?

0:54:02.040 --> 0:54:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I don't know tree kind.

0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:06.839
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you all of them.

0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:10.919
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we got willows, we got a oaky, we got

0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:26.319
<v Speaker 2>birch palm m hm. Oh you're roun elm whoa apple tree?

0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Don't help her anyway? Oky orange. Okay, really quick, while

0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:37.680
<v Speaker 2>we're on the subjects of the CEO, because we referenced

0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.320
<v Speaker 2>this earlier, but I really think like and again, I

0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:44.800
<v Speaker 2>fully understand that this movie was signed off by Mattel,

0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:48.120
<v Speaker 2>so of course I'm sure they had a million notes.

0:54:48.600 --> 0:54:51.400
<v Speaker 2>I'd be really curious in the future. I just would

0:54:51.400 --> 0:54:55.320
<v Speaker 2>love to have more oral histories of studio notes in general,

0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:57.640
<v Speaker 2>because I think a lot of the time the writers

0:54:57.640 --> 0:55:00.440
<v Speaker 2>and directors absorb a lot of criticism becau because it's

0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:04.319
<v Speaker 2>their name there. But there's a million shadowy figures that

0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:07.080
<v Speaker 2>influence what ends up there. And I like when anytime

0:55:07.120 --> 0:55:09.799
<v Speaker 2>I've written an episode of TV, like there's been a

0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:13.560
<v Speaker 2>whole scene that you're like, weird, what is that? And

0:55:13.640 --> 0:55:16.799
<v Speaker 2>yet I wrote it. You know, it's just like there

0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:19.120
<v Speaker 2>are so many people involved. So I would be curious

0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:22.920
<v Speaker 2>how the CEO character evolved because I think that casting

0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Will Ferrell feels really intentional there, right, because yeh, if

0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:28.919
<v Speaker 2>you're doing a CEO as a villain, you don't cast

0:55:28.920 --> 0:55:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Will Ferrell. If you cast Will Ferrell, it's because you

0:55:31.239 --> 0:55:33.600
<v Speaker 2>want him to seem kind of like, oh, well, he's

0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:35.839
<v Speaker 2>not doing the right thing, but he's kind of hapless

0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:38.319
<v Speaker 2>and he's kind of like whatever, Like he'll figure out

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:41.080
<v Speaker 2>a goofball. He's a goofball. And I think that that

0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:44.720
<v Speaker 2>is a really pernicious way to frame corporate America.

0:55:45.239 --> 0:55:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, so didn't he play basically the same exact character

0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:50.120
<v Speaker 1>in the Lego movie.

0:55:50.200 --> 0:55:50.439
<v Speaker 5>Yes?

0:55:51.160 --> 0:55:56.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, in the Greta Gerwick commentary spoiler alert, she did

0:55:56.600 --> 0:56:00.000
<v Speaker 2>say something helpful. Okay, she when he first comes on screen,

0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:03.279
<v Speaker 2>and she says the CEO character, he's not evil. He's

0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:06.759
<v Speaker 2>like a really enthusiastic golden retriever. He really believes that

0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 2>sparkles lead to female empowerment and he's just gonna stick

0:56:09.719 --> 0:56:13.680
<v Speaker 2>with that. And I hate that. I hate that so much.

0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:16.719
<v Speaker 2>I think that there is like attempted commentary within there.

0:56:16.760 --> 0:56:19.560
<v Speaker 2>And I am like to give this movie as much

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:23.760
<v Speaker 2>credit like as I can. It says more and jabs

0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:26.480
<v Speaker 2>at more than you would expect it to, where it's

0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:30.359
<v Speaker 2>like they do reference, like we have not had many

0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:33.640
<v Speaker 2>female executives really ever, and there are like a number

0:56:33.640 --> 0:56:36.839
<v Speaker 2>of jokes to that effect. But also it just sort

0:56:36.880 --> 0:56:40.920
<v Speaker 2>of makes the capitalism element feel like goofy and harmless

0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:44.319
<v Speaker 2>while we're attacking patriarchy and white supremacy we don't talk

0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:46.640
<v Speaker 2>about and so it's just like all I mean, I know,

0:56:46.719 --> 0:56:51.359
<v Speaker 2>and one movie cannot do everything. But because this movie

0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:54.480
<v Speaker 2>is so honed in on patriarchy. The way it treats

0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:58.040
<v Speaker 2>other elements feels kind of dissonant and weird. But it's

0:56:58.040 --> 0:57:00.359
<v Speaker 2>also like, if it didn't treat it that way, would

0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the movie exist. I don't know, because something something comes.

0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:07.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the.

0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Thing about presenting a like anti patriarchy argument in a

0:57:14.520 --> 0:57:19.520
<v Speaker 1>movie packaged in this very like pink, hyper feminine Barbie package.

0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:21.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean it makes it.

0:57:21.640 --> 0:57:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Does it make it very palatable and fun? Yes, But

0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:29.720
<v Speaker 1>again it it just ends up ignoring a lot of

0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:32.080
<v Speaker 1>things and creating cognitive dissonance.

0:57:32.320 --> 0:57:36.840
<v Speaker 2>But I do like how hyperfeminine, like hyperfeminine aesthetics are

0:57:37.000 --> 0:57:39.200
<v Speaker 2>like inherent to this world, and I like, I really

0:57:39.240 --> 0:57:40.760
<v Speaker 2>do like that, and I like, I feel like the

0:57:40.800 --> 0:57:42.480
<v Speaker 2>pictures you see of people who go to see the

0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:46.480
<v Speaker 2>movie reflect that, where it's like permission to be hyper feminine.

0:57:46.520 --> 0:57:49.840
<v Speaker 2>And that was like one of the elements of Stereotypical

0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Barbie that I really liked, where you're presented stereotypical Barbie

0:57:54.000 --> 0:57:56.440
<v Speaker 2>along with all of your assumptions about her, which is

0:57:57.040 --> 0:58:01.240
<v Speaker 2>criticisms that have haunted Barbie, some rightful, some were projected

0:58:01.640 --> 0:58:04.800
<v Speaker 2>over the course of over half a century, where like

0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:08.360
<v Speaker 2>she is brainless, she's a bimbo. She's not smart, and

0:58:08.400 --> 0:58:14.520
<v Speaker 2>like associating hyper femininity with not being smart, and it

0:58:14.560 --> 0:58:18.560
<v Speaker 2>seems like stereotypical Barbie has like inferred this about herself

0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:20.600
<v Speaker 2>because she's always like, well, I'm not one of the

0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:23.120
<v Speaker 2>job Barbie's, so they should probably figure it out. And

0:58:23.160 --> 0:58:25.919
<v Speaker 2>she is this hyper feminine Barbie and then over time

0:58:25.960 --> 0:58:29.040
<v Speaker 2>she figures out like I am smart, I am capable

0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:33.200
<v Speaker 2>of growth. And I really liked that, is like having

0:58:33.280 --> 0:58:38.520
<v Speaker 2>a hyper feminine character who is smart and not playing

0:58:38.560 --> 0:58:40.720
<v Speaker 2>into the tropes that we're used to seeing, because I

0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:42.440
<v Speaker 2>feel like it truly is like there's a lot of

0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:45.360
<v Speaker 2>times where you see a woman in pink and you're

0:58:45.840 --> 0:58:49.760
<v Speaker 2>trained to think like bimbo, not smart, not going to

0:58:49.760 --> 0:58:53.440
<v Speaker 2>contribute very much, and that's silly even though pink's not

0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:58.120
<v Speaker 2>really my color. Wow, could have fooled me. Well.

0:59:00.120 --> 0:59:02.080
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we had a very similar discussion on

0:59:02.120 --> 0:59:03.480
<v Speaker 1>the Legally Blonde episode.

0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I also had Ellwood's Barbie.

0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:10.000
<v Speaker 1>What that's the thing too, is Barbie just like Lego,

0:59:10.080 --> 0:59:14.000
<v Speaker 1>where every property that exists is Lego, and also everything

0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:16.680
<v Speaker 1>in person is also Barbie Barbie.

0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:18.640
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, does a weirder job of it, where

0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:20.880
<v Speaker 2>it's like things that you're like, oh, that's awesome, and

0:59:20.880 --> 0:59:26.560
<v Speaker 2>then you're like why Rosie o'donald, like why cheese? Recently,

0:59:26.600 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I think she'll be she'll be at my house. I

0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:33.680
<v Speaker 2>recently got Ida b Wells Barbie, like they make historical

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:37.720
<v Speaker 2>women barbies too. I have Sally Ryde Barbie. We're adding

0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Ida to the mix, you know, running out of the

0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:43.080
<v Speaker 2>shelf space. I just have too many. I don't know whatever.

0:59:44.520 --> 0:59:46.480
<v Speaker 2>I've never heard of John Sanna. Oh my gosh, we've

0:59:46.520 --> 0:59:50.440
<v Speaker 2>never We have yet to talk about the DJ College situation.

0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what he's in the movie. Is he

0:59:56.080 --> 0:59:59.640
<v Speaker 2>a ken? No, he's selling the kens? Oh my god.

1:00:00.280 --> 1:00:03.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh guys. I almost backed off because I was like, wait,

1:00:03.760 --> 1:00:07.680
<v Speaker 2>it's DJ College. Another one the guy who's like this,

1:00:10.520 --> 1:00:11.560
<v Speaker 2>he's in the movie.

1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:17.080
<v Speaker 1>The guy's like these mojo dojo castles off the shelves,

1:00:17.400 --> 1:00:21.480
<v Speaker 1>you guys, and also a celebrity who famously hates eating pussy.

1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:23.960
<v Speaker 2>They're just like, a, this is all we could ride

1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:28.440
<v Speaker 2>a fucking dissertation on this. Oh my god. I'm like,

1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:32.520
<v Speaker 2>my I I just had a surge of adrenaline. But

1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I was like I know who DJ coll It is. There. Yeah,

1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:38.240
<v Speaker 2>they he had a he had a cameo, and I

1:00:38.320 --> 1:00:41.040
<v Speaker 2>also love that during that Greta Gerwig absolutely does not

1:00:41.120 --> 1:00:44.840
<v Speaker 2>know who he is because she she was silent through

1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:48.600
<v Speaker 2>that whole scene and then started talking.

1:00:48.520 --> 1:00:51.440
<v Speaker 1>A few other fun cameos though, Annie Mamelo has a

1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:57.560
<v Speaker 1>little cameo. We've got Emerald fanel Is Midge. Okay, where

1:00:57.640 --> 1:01:05.120
<v Speaker 1>are the closest? Burn will come to the Oscars. Also,

1:01:05.240 --> 1:01:09.320
<v Speaker 1>the woman at the bus stop is legendary costume designer

1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:13.680
<v Speaker 1>and Roth she's designing Cowboy. Yes, she did Midnight Cowboy,

1:01:13.760 --> 1:01:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Cold Mountain, Mama Mia okay, and then one Oscars for

1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:22.280
<v Speaker 1>English Patient and Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Bottom?

1:01:24.080 --> 1:01:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Are you right bottom down? Twice?

1:01:26.680 --> 1:01:29.040
<v Speaker 1>No, but I said the first bottom as though there

1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:32.440
<v Speaker 1>was more to that title, and there isn't.

1:01:32.560 --> 1:01:35.320
<v Speaker 2>You're doing We're doing great, We're doing ground and it's

1:01:35.400 --> 1:01:42.720
<v Speaker 2>the Ludese. I'm telling you Hi again.

1:01:42.840 --> 1:01:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Barbie's it's future Barbie Caitlin and future Barbie Jamie.

1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow, we're basically the astronaut barbiees. I know that astronauts

1:01:52.520 --> 1:01:55.520
<v Speaker 2>don't time travel, but I in my mind they kind

1:01:55.560 --> 1:01:57.720
<v Speaker 2>of basically do.

1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:01.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, have you ever seen Interstellar. I mean it's kind

1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:02.160
<v Speaker 1>of like that.

1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Have I ever seen interest on it? Have we ever

1:02:04.600 --> 1:02:06.840
<v Speaker 2>covered it on the show? No? So no, I haven't

1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:12.200
<v Speaker 2>seen it. Uh huh. Anyways, Welcome to the Future. Yeah,

1:02:12.200 --> 1:02:14.760
<v Speaker 2>So this was the point in the show where I

1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:17.160
<v Speaker 2>just want to share with you that we would do

1:02:17.800 --> 1:02:21.240
<v Speaker 2>our fun like we did a live game where we

1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:24.440
<v Speaker 2>had Barbies from the Barbie Movie and we would do

1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:30.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of just a series of immaculately improvised scenarios.

1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh, such good improv.

1:02:32.680 --> 1:02:35.920
<v Speaker 2>We brought up some audience members to do it with us,

1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:38.440
<v Speaker 2>and they were just as good at improv as we were,

1:02:38.520 --> 1:02:41.920
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes better because we're pretty mid at it.

1:02:42.480 --> 1:02:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Wow, can't believe you said that.

1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:48.680
<v Speaker 2>We were also set it on stage. But it was

1:02:48.680 --> 1:02:51.439
<v Speaker 2>a blast. So but you know, obviously that doesn't quite

1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:56.920
<v Speaker 2>translate to audios. So in lieu of that, you the

1:02:57.120 --> 1:03:00.360
<v Speaker 2>listener listening for free will be deprived of fun and

1:03:00.400 --> 1:03:04.360
<v Speaker 2>subjected to further discourse because, of course, in the live show,

1:03:04.520 --> 1:03:06.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, time is limited, so we didn't get to

1:03:06.920 --> 1:03:09.080
<v Speaker 2>quite everything that we wanted to.

1:03:09.360 --> 1:03:12.200
<v Speaker 1>So, and that's why you should come to the live

1:03:12.280 --> 1:03:16.440
<v Speaker 1>shows when we do have them, because there are segments

1:03:16.480 --> 1:03:19.600
<v Speaker 1>that we tend to cut out when we release the

1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:22.160
<v Speaker 1>actual episode on our feed because either they just don't

1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:24.960
<v Speaker 1>translate very well to the audio medium, or we just

1:03:24.960 --> 1:03:28.080
<v Speaker 1>want to give our audience, our attendees to the live

1:03:28.080 --> 1:03:31.240
<v Speaker 1>shows a little special treats. So it's all the more

1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:34.240
<v Speaker 1>reason to come to our live shows when you can.

1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:37.360
<v Speaker 2>The shows are fun. Yeah, I just wanted to start

1:03:37.400 --> 1:03:39.320
<v Speaker 2>by I know that we had a section in the

1:03:39.320 --> 1:03:42.600
<v Speaker 2>live show where we talked about Ruth Handler and sort

1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:45.280
<v Speaker 2>of the history of Barbie as well as Kitty Black Perkins.

1:03:45.800 --> 1:03:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to add a few extra things that

1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:49.600
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have time to talk about in the show,

1:03:49.640 --> 1:03:52.440
<v Speaker 2>just because I thought it was interesting that also connects

1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to the idea of mothers and motherhood within the context

1:03:59.480 --> 1:04:03.640
<v Speaker 2>of this movie. Because I and I know that we're

1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:06.960
<v Speaker 2>like not supposed to do this, so please don't yell

1:04:07.000 --> 1:04:12.600
<v Speaker 2>at me. I bravely read a book, Jamie. How could you?

1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:15.520
<v Speaker 2>I know? But I really, I mean, I genuinely really

1:04:15.680 --> 1:04:19.840
<v Speaker 2>am interested in dull history. I really am. And so

1:04:20.040 --> 1:04:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I got this book from the library. And if you

1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:27.920
<v Speaker 2>are not a subscriber, not a subscriber to the library,

1:04:27.920 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 2>but like, how if you have a library card. You're

1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:33.880
<v Speaker 2>able to access free books and movies through your library card.

1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:38.200
<v Speaker 2>So I borrowed the book Barbie and Ruth, The Story

1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:40.280
<v Speaker 2>of the World's most Famous Doll and the Woman who

1:04:40.320 --> 1:04:44.360
<v Speaker 2>created Her by Robin Gerber, just to sort of bolster

1:04:44.520 --> 1:04:47.640
<v Speaker 2>my knowledge about what the actual story of Barbie is

1:04:47.640 --> 1:04:50.560
<v Speaker 2>because understandably in the movie, and this isn't even a criticism,

1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:53.120
<v Speaker 2>like the movie is not about the history of Barbie.

1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I think the fact that Ruth Handler is even included

1:04:56.160 --> 1:04:59.160
<v Speaker 2>was more than I was expecting, honestly true. But I

1:04:59.200 --> 1:05:01.240
<v Speaker 2>think that what we didn't get the chance to talk

1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:05.000
<v Speaker 2>about in the live show was how she is presented

1:05:05.120 --> 1:05:09.320
<v Speaker 2>as a god figure and also a maternal god figure,

1:05:10.040 --> 1:05:12.120
<v Speaker 2>because she is presented to us like and it's like

1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:15.480
<v Speaker 2>not hidden at all, that like she is basically the

1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:20.360
<v Speaker 2>god to Barbie's Jesus. Sure, and that, as we'll talk

1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:23.160
<v Speaker 2>about in a little bit, like is explicitly stated by

1:05:23.200 --> 1:05:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Greta Gerberg, is like she know bomb Back, knew that

1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:28.480
<v Speaker 2>they were doing it. I think that that's a really

1:05:28.560 --> 1:05:31.640
<v Speaker 2>weird but like pretty interesting thing to include in your

1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Barbie movie. Yeah, but the real life Ruth Handler, what

1:05:34.760 --> 1:05:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I think I think it just sort of speaks to

1:05:36.840 --> 1:05:41.480
<v Speaker 2>how we project, not just I mean the real life

1:05:41.520 --> 1:05:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Ruth Handler was a mother to Barbara aka Barbie. But

1:05:48.160 --> 1:05:50.120
<v Speaker 2>I think that, like we've talked about in a lot

1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.120
<v Speaker 2>of movies, that like it has to do with this

1:05:53.160 --> 1:05:58.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of sis woman divine prophecy where not only will

1:05:58.120 --> 1:06:01.520
<v Speaker 2>you be a mother, but you will mothers are inherently

1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:06.520
<v Speaker 2>good and mothers are you know, inherently good at being

1:06:06.640 --> 1:06:10.960
<v Speaker 2>mothers when that is often not true and also a

1:06:11.040 --> 1:06:15.320
<v Speaker 2>ridiculous expectation because it is not a divine prophecy, you're

1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:18.960
<v Speaker 2>a person. And I think that that is very well

1:06:19.000 --> 1:06:24.360
<v Speaker 2>demonstrated in real life Ruth Handler's life, who had consistently

1:06:24.400 --> 1:06:28.840
<v Speaker 2>a very very contentious relationship with specifically her daughter, but

1:06:29.240 --> 1:06:32.280
<v Speaker 2>both of her children, and I think you know, by

1:06:32.520 --> 1:06:35.960
<v Speaker 2>many accounts, she was an incredible businesswoman. She had a

1:06:36.000 --> 1:06:39.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of growth throughout her life where she did not

1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:43.600
<v Speaker 2>consider herself to be a feminist and in fact like

1:06:43.760 --> 1:06:48.000
<v Speaker 2>avoided friendships with women for much of her life. And

1:06:48.320 --> 1:06:50.720
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't until her later years, when she was making

1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:55.920
<v Speaker 2>prosthetic breasts for breast cancer survivors, that she really felt

1:06:55.920 --> 1:06:59.680
<v Speaker 2>connected to women and to just even the concept of feminism,

1:06:59.800 --> 1:07:02.400
<v Speaker 2>and you know, had a period of her life where

1:07:02.400 --> 1:07:05.680
<v Speaker 2>she was reflecting and like reading feminist theory and being like, wait,

1:07:06.600 --> 1:07:08.960
<v Speaker 2>have men been awful to me most of my life?

1:07:09.400 --> 1:07:13.200
<v Speaker 2>And you know, yes, And to the point where something

1:07:13.240 --> 1:07:17.760
<v Speaker 2>that really made me laugh was that this doesn't exist

1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:21.720
<v Speaker 2>in the sort of more overarching histories. But when she

1:07:21.760 --> 1:07:24.480
<v Speaker 2>finally when she started her company that was just hers.

1:07:24.520 --> 1:07:28.640
<v Speaker 2>Her husband wasn't you know involved in her company for

1:07:28.720 --> 1:07:32.640
<v Speaker 2>the prosthetic breast was called Ruth ten And so she

1:07:32.720 --> 1:07:37.160
<v Speaker 2>finally got her name in the company my girl boss hero.

1:07:37.800 --> 1:07:40.400
<v Speaker 2>But in any case, she had a very difficult relationship

1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:44.280
<v Speaker 2>with her children and was not quote unquote the natural

1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:48.440
<v Speaker 2>mother that we see presented, who is inherently, you know,

1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:51.320
<v Speaker 2>like just knows exactly what to do. And I just

1:07:51.360 --> 1:07:54.440
<v Speaker 2>thought that that was worth mentioning, even in the context

1:07:54.520 --> 1:07:58.280
<v Speaker 2>because of how she's presented where and they are willing

1:07:58.360 --> 1:08:01.920
<v Speaker 2>to you know, sort of cop to. Maybe it's not

1:08:01.960 --> 1:08:04.760
<v Speaker 2>the best phrase, I but like cop to certain like

1:08:04.880 --> 1:08:08.160
<v Speaker 2>flaws that were public, such as being sentenced to a

1:08:08.200 --> 1:08:13.640
<v Speaker 2>forty five year prison sentence and having had anseectomy, but

1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:17.200
<v Speaker 2>still feel the need to be like, but shit, at

1:08:17.240 --> 1:08:18.800
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day she's a mother, when in

1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:20.800
<v Speaker 2>fact that was like a part of Freeth Handler's life

1:08:20.840 --> 1:08:22.559
<v Speaker 2>that was very challenging.

1:08:23.720 --> 1:08:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Also, and we mentioned this in the live show too,

1:08:26.640 --> 1:08:29.320
<v Speaker 1>but the line where the Ruth Handler character at the

1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:32.679
<v Speaker 1>end of the movie says something like we mothers stand

1:08:32.800 --> 1:08:36.360
<v Speaker 1>still so our daughters can see how far they've come

1:08:36.720 --> 1:08:41.000
<v Speaker 1>or whatever the line is, and how it just rubbed

1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:43.519
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people the wrong way.

1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think like that again, it just like applies

1:08:46.080 --> 1:08:53.880
<v Speaker 2>this prescriptive role of like deference and yeah, humbleness.

1:08:53.040 --> 1:08:56.880
<v Speaker 1>And becoming a mother means that you surrender other parts

1:08:56.920 --> 1:08:57.840
<v Speaker 1>of your life.

1:08:57.800 --> 1:08:58.760
<v Speaker 2>And stuff like that.

1:08:59.080 --> 1:08:59.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:02.840
<v Speaker 1>The other the thing that I found interesting about Ruth

1:09:02.880 --> 1:09:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Handler's like journey with feminism is that, from my understanding,

1:09:07.200 --> 1:09:12.080
<v Speaker 1>she created Barbie, or she at least viewed Barbie as

1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:15.440
<v Speaker 1>an alternative to baby dolls, something that was like aspirational,

1:09:15.680 --> 1:09:19.720
<v Speaker 1>something that would help girls or whoever was playing with them.

1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:22.080
<v Speaker 1>And that's a separate issue I have with this movie

1:09:22.080 --> 1:09:24.760
<v Speaker 1>where it feels it's very much like, well, the only

1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:27.760
<v Speaker 1>people who play with dolls are girls. But anyway, that's

1:09:27.760 --> 1:09:30.519
<v Speaker 1>a I'll get to that later. But anyway, she viewed

1:09:30.800 --> 1:09:35.479
<v Speaker 1>Barbie dolls as an aspirational way to help girls envision

1:09:35.800 --> 1:09:39.599
<v Speaker 1>their lives outside of being a mother, which, of course,

1:09:40.000 --> 1:09:43.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, that was the expectation that was foisted onto

1:09:43.080 --> 1:09:47.639
<v Speaker 1>women at the time Barbie was created, and Barbie dolls

1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:51.880
<v Speaker 1>were an opportunity to allow girls to see that they

1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:55.840
<v Speaker 1>could grow up and have a career and they didn't

1:09:55.880 --> 1:10:01.560
<v Speaker 1>necessarily have to adhere to that kind of rigid societal expectation,

1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:07.360
<v Speaker 1>which was a pretty radical idea at that time, right,

1:10:07.520 --> 1:10:12.640
<v Speaker 1>So I appreciate that about Barbie dolls and about like

1:10:12.720 --> 1:10:14.639
<v Speaker 1>Ruth Handler's vision for them.

1:10:15.000 --> 1:10:16.640
<v Speaker 2>I did too, and I feel like, you know, the

1:10:16.680 --> 1:10:19.840
<v Speaker 2>way that I even though like when I was a kid,

1:10:19.880 --> 1:10:21.960
<v Speaker 2>I forget if I mentioned it in this, but but yeah,

1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:25.280
<v Speaker 2>that I had like a moment where, you know, I

1:10:25.280 --> 1:10:28.000
<v Speaker 2>loved playing with Barbies and then felt self conscious about

1:10:28.080 --> 1:10:31.960
<v Speaker 2>enjoying it, and then realized that it is in fact

1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:35.280
<v Speaker 2>quite stressful to have an aspirational doll, even though you

1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:40.040
<v Speaker 2>are projecting your hopes and desires through them in a

1:10:40.040 --> 1:10:42.519
<v Speaker 2>way that feels very fun and dynamic and cool in

1:10:42.560 --> 1:10:45.360
<v Speaker 2>the way that just being a kid is. The body

1:10:45.400 --> 1:10:48.200
<v Speaker 2>stuff does get to you over time, and certainly I

1:10:48.240 --> 1:10:53.040
<v Speaker 2>wrote a strongly worded letter to Mattel being like, listen up, boys,

1:10:53.960 --> 1:10:57.160
<v Speaker 2>my boobs are not going to come in, I've recently realized,

1:10:57.400 --> 1:11:01.360
<v Speaker 2>and like, but just truly like the very you know,

1:11:01.520 --> 1:11:05.120
<v Speaker 2>entrenched white Western beauty standards that Barbie's been rightfully criticized

1:11:05.160 --> 1:11:06.960
<v Speaker 2>over a period of years. We talked about this during

1:11:07.000 --> 1:11:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the show, but that I didn't really understand, and I

1:11:10.400 --> 1:11:12.360
<v Speaker 2>think that that is sort of a testament to the

1:11:12.400 --> 1:11:16.840
<v Speaker 2>power of Barbie two, that I didn't really know as

1:11:16.880 --> 1:11:21.360
<v Speaker 2>a kid that dolls were not aspirational, and like, I

1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:24.960
<v Speaker 2>never had any interest in baby dolls, and so I think,

1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:29.760
<v Speaker 2>like it's almost this like cool, frustrating, but new problem

1:11:30.320 --> 1:11:35.479
<v Speaker 2>to deconstruct, Well, what does the aspirational doll say about

1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:38.080
<v Speaker 2>what I should be aspiring to? But the fact that

1:11:38.080 --> 1:11:41.920
<v Speaker 2>that didn't exist, that problem didn't exist before because you

1:11:41.960 --> 1:11:46.920
<v Speaker 2>were not supposed to aspire to anything, and like, wow, right,

1:11:47.200 --> 1:11:49.479
<v Speaker 2>I also just wanted to touch on really quick because

1:11:49.479 --> 1:11:54.439
<v Speaker 2>it's Ken history. Yes, Ruth Handler's the Handlers. Elliot and

1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Ruth had two children, Barbara and Kenneth, Barbie and Ken

1:11:58.600 --> 1:12:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and Ken. I feel like he is not I mean

1:12:03.040 --> 1:12:06.080
<v Speaker 2>just says in the world of the Barbie movie under discussed,

1:12:06.240 --> 1:12:11.120
<v Speaker 2>under examined in real life as well. Ken Handler seemed

1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:17.680
<v Speaker 2>like a truly wonderful person who so who eventually unfortunately

1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:20.720
<v Speaker 2>he passed away of AIDS fairly young. I think it

1:12:20.760 --> 1:12:25.080
<v Speaker 2>was in his forties, in the late eighties, early nineties,

1:12:25.920 --> 1:12:27.800
<v Speaker 2>And so there is sort of this whole. I mean,

1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:33.639
<v Speaker 2>both children, Barbara and Kenneth different than the dolls, I think,

1:12:33.960 --> 1:12:37.440
<v Speaker 2>appreciated what their parents were trying to do, but resented

1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:40.720
<v Speaker 2>how it sort of haunted them right where Ken was

1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:43.519
<v Speaker 2>teased at school for being like, do you just have

1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:47.240
<v Speaker 2>a lump? You know, goofy shit like that, But if

1:12:47.240 --> 1:12:52.280
<v Speaker 2>you're a kid, that's humiliating and it feels horrible. And Barbara, interestingly,

1:12:52.360 --> 1:12:56.320
<v Speaker 2>her issue with her mom that she reflected on later

1:12:56.800 --> 1:12:59.920
<v Speaker 2>was that she resented her mom for having a career

1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:04.559
<v Speaker 2>because it meant like, quote unquote, her mom was different,

1:13:04.600 --> 1:13:08.479
<v Speaker 2>which of course is entrenched in privilege the reasons that

1:13:08.479 --> 1:13:11.120
<v Speaker 2>that is. But it was interesting just sort of reading

1:13:11.120 --> 1:13:13.400
<v Speaker 2>how she reflected on that later on, where she was like,

1:13:13.439 --> 1:13:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I resented my mom because I didn't really understand how

1:13:18.080 --> 1:13:20.320
<v Speaker 2>radical it was that she was working, Like I didn't

1:13:20.360 --> 1:13:22.679
<v Speaker 2>see any moms that were working and so I assumed

1:13:22.680 --> 1:13:27.439
<v Speaker 2>she was the problem when that wasn't the case. Oh.

1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>She also said of her brother Ken, and I think

1:13:31.400 --> 1:13:33.000
<v Speaker 2>this was prior to his death, so it was just

1:13:33.040 --> 1:13:35.800
<v Speaker 2>like good natured ripping. But she said, my brother is

1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:39.000
<v Speaker 2>eccentric and he thinks my mother is God. And I

1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:41.680
<v Speaker 2>was like, I want a son like that.

1:13:43.360 --> 1:13:45.320
<v Speaker 1>But in any case, I feel like you do have

1:13:45.520 --> 1:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>two cat sons like that.

1:13:47.640 --> 1:13:49.719
<v Speaker 2>I do. They're both eccentric and they think I'm God.

1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not going to challenge that characteristic. But yeah,

1:13:55.200 --> 1:13:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Ken was. I mean, he was a young gay man

1:13:59.840 --> 1:14:04.200
<v Speaker 2>in the sixties and so it was not socially acceptable

1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:06.479
<v Speaker 2>for him to be out. He was married to a

1:14:06.520 --> 1:14:10.360
<v Speaker 2>woman for most of his life. He had some show

1:14:10.400 --> 1:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>business aspirations that so because he you know, like the

1:14:17.080 --> 1:14:19.080
<v Speaker 2>kids they all grew up in LA they're kind of

1:14:19.120 --> 1:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>like Hollywood babies. And Ken went on to direct two movies,

1:14:25.160 --> 1:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>one of which I've seen called Delivery Boys about.

1:14:30.000 --> 1:14:32.200
<v Speaker 1>Hey, and this is coming sounds like me in my

1:14:32.360 --> 1:14:33.360
<v Speaker 1>hooter's career.

1:14:34.479 --> 1:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>It is a very like dancy, somewhat home eerotic movie.

1:14:40.040 --> 1:14:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I quite enjoyed it. The plot is all over the place,

1:14:43.880 --> 1:14:46.080
<v Speaker 2>like you're like, I think they are just like dancing

1:14:46.120 --> 1:14:49.759
<v Speaker 2>and delivery. But it's a nineteen eighty four film directed

1:14:49.760 --> 1:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>by Ken Handler about a multi ethnic group of pizza

1:14:52.880 --> 1:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>delivery boys who started a break dancing team. And having

1:14:56.360 --> 1:14:58.240
<v Speaker 2>seen the movie, I can tell you that's exactly what

1:14:58.280 --> 1:15:01.599
<v Speaker 2>it's about and nothing else. But he you know, he

1:15:01.920 --> 1:15:04.799
<v Speaker 2>is most famously known as the namesake of the Kendall

1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>but he also was a very creative person and had

1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:11.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of output of his own. So in any case,

1:15:11.560 --> 1:15:15.799
<v Speaker 2>he did not come out to his family, I believe

1:15:15.840 --> 1:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>his mother, father, and sister until he had already tested

1:15:20.439 --> 1:15:24.640
<v Speaker 2>positive for HIV, to the extent that he and his

1:15:25.320 --> 1:15:28.960
<v Speaker 2>wife was already aware at this point, And so Ken

1:15:29.560 --> 1:15:34.400
<v Speaker 2>and his wife Susie, and a doctor went to the

1:15:34.439 --> 1:15:39.240
<v Speaker 2>home to explain not only what his diagnosis was, but

1:15:39.439 --> 1:15:44.439
<v Speaker 2>what it was at all, because of how naive and

1:15:44.479 --> 1:15:46.160
<v Speaker 2>how I mean, I think it really just speaks to

1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:51.080
<v Speaker 2>how under educated the general public was about about issues

1:15:51.080 --> 1:15:55.360
<v Speaker 2>surrounding HIV and AIDS. And so he passed away in

1:15:55.720 --> 1:15:59.519
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four. He was only fifty years old, and

1:16:00.240 --> 1:16:04.479
<v Speaker 2>at the time his parents announced that he had died

1:16:04.560 --> 1:16:09.960
<v Speaker 2>of a brain tumor. And so I mean, I cannot

1:16:10.200 --> 1:16:13.920
<v Speaker 2>say with any level of certainty what the intention behind

1:16:13.920 --> 1:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>that was, whether it was a denial that they had

1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:19.280
<v Speaker 2>a queer son, or if they thought they were, you know,

1:16:19.320 --> 1:16:23.120
<v Speaker 2>in this very antiquated way, thought they were acting in

1:16:23.160 --> 1:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>his best interest. I don't know. They didn't speak about

1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:31.000
<v Speaker 2>it extensively, but I just feel like there Ken had

1:16:31.000 --> 1:16:37.559
<v Speaker 2>a really tragically short but really interesting life, and within

1:16:37.640 --> 1:16:42.120
<v Speaker 2>the queer community, was really well loved and had a

1:16:42.160 --> 1:16:44.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of friends and a lot of creative pursuits and

1:16:45.160 --> 1:16:49.000
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that. And he didn't like Ken Dolls, and Barbie, well,

1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:52.200
<v Speaker 2>she didn't like Barbie Dolls. And so I guess if

1:16:52.240 --> 1:16:55.519
<v Speaker 2>you invent something, don't name it after your kids, they

1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:59.080
<v Speaker 2>will hate you. But that's the additional context they wanted

1:16:59.080 --> 1:16:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to share.

1:17:00.520 --> 1:17:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for that, And I guess the other things

1:17:05.880 --> 1:17:09.400
<v Speaker 1>that I had about the movie that we didn't have

1:17:09.520 --> 1:17:14.360
<v Speaker 1>time for in the live shows, a lot of them

1:17:14.400 --> 1:17:20.160
<v Speaker 1>were things that I found frustrating about the movie. A

1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:24.679
<v Speaker 1>few specific things are A pretty big component of Barbie's character,

1:17:24.720 --> 1:17:27.120
<v Speaker 1>in addition to the fact that she's crying for most

1:17:27.160 --> 1:17:30.559
<v Speaker 1>of the second half of the movie, is that she

1:17:31.360 --> 1:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>has a strong fixation on her own appearance and of

1:17:37.360 --> 1:17:41.000
<v Speaker 1>course Barbie is a product of her environment, so it

1:17:41.080 --> 1:17:47.960
<v Speaker 1>makes sense that she's hyper focused on her image because

1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:55.000
<v Speaker 1>so much of the Barbie brand and lore is about

1:17:55.280 --> 1:17:58.200
<v Speaker 1>what she looks like, how she's designed, that she's quote

1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:01.400
<v Speaker 1>unquote perfect, all of that kind of stuff. But this

1:18:01.560 --> 1:18:04.360
<v Speaker 1>manifests in the movie in a way that I feel

1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:10.760
<v Speaker 1>like is not really thoughtfully commented on. There is that

1:18:10.840 --> 1:18:15.360
<v Speaker 1>moment where Sasha is saying, like, you made girls feel

1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:17.920
<v Speaker 1>horrible about themselves, and you're a fascist, But.

1:18:18.200 --> 1:18:21.759
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like she's presented as ultimately being wrong

1:18:22.040 --> 1:18:25.000
<v Speaker 2>because and I think it's also like I get it's

1:18:25.040 --> 1:18:27.920
<v Speaker 2>it's tricky because I feel tempted to defend the movie

1:18:27.920 --> 1:18:30.280
<v Speaker 2>where it's like, well, you know, it's like part of it,

1:18:30.320 --> 1:18:34.200
<v Speaker 2>but like couching it in jokes sometimes is really tricky

1:18:34.400 --> 1:18:39.639
<v Speaker 2>because it's like, in one situation there something is if

1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:44.000
<v Speaker 2>not a thousand percent true, worth discussing, and then the

1:18:44.080 --> 1:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>other thing, that Barbie is a fascist is objectively not true,

1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:50.559
<v Speaker 2>and so it's all sort of cast in this same

1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:52.200
<v Speaker 2>sort of like, well, none of this is true, and

1:18:52.240 --> 1:18:54.240
<v Speaker 2>you're like, well, let's get back to the body image thing,

1:18:54.320 --> 1:18:56.719
<v Speaker 2>because I think there is some truth to what Sasha

1:18:56.760 --> 1:18:59.920
<v Speaker 2>is saying that a lot of the criticisms of Barbie

1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:03.320
<v Speaker 2>have come up over the years are sometimes coming from

1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:07.400
<v Speaker 2>a place of just like how dare a woman exist?

1:19:07.760 --> 1:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>And then there also is genuinely, as we talked about

1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:14.840
<v Speaker 2>in the live show, a history of because this is

1:19:14.920 --> 1:19:20.559
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote the aspirational doll. You're being handed this white, thin, blonde,

1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>large breasted, anatomically impossible doll and told this is what

1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:29.160
<v Speaker 2>you should be aspiring to. So that's a far more

1:19:29.200 --> 1:19:32.120
<v Speaker 2>complicated thing to deal with, and I mean, yeah, right.

1:19:32.160 --> 1:19:35.360
<v Speaker 1>And then again, the way this all plays out in

1:19:35.520 --> 1:19:39.040
<v Speaker 1>the movie for Barbie's character is that, like, the thing

1:19:39.120 --> 1:19:42.640
<v Speaker 1>that finally motivates Barbie to be willing to take this

1:19:42.720 --> 1:19:46.479
<v Speaker 1>journey into the real world and fix this rift that's

1:19:46.520 --> 1:19:51.040
<v Speaker 1>been created is weird Barbie saying like, if you don't

1:19:51.160 --> 1:19:53.800
<v Speaker 1>do this, you're going to keep getting more cellulate, And

1:19:53.840 --> 1:19:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Barbie's like, oh my god, that's the worst imaginable thing.

1:19:56.600 --> 1:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>I could never have that. So that's what motivates her

1:20:00.400 --> 1:20:03.599
<v Speaker 1>to go on the quest. Toward the end of the movie,

1:20:04.240 --> 1:20:08.559
<v Speaker 1>after you know, Ken has taken over and ruined barbie Land. Yeah,

1:20:08.600 --> 1:20:11.479
<v Speaker 1>one of the big things that Barbie is upset about

1:20:11.600 --> 1:20:14.920
<v Speaker 1>is that she's not pretty anymore and that she's worried

1:20:14.960 --> 1:20:19.080
<v Speaker 1>that Ken doesn't like her anymore. She also says things

1:20:19.120 --> 1:20:22.880
<v Speaker 1>like I don't think I'm smart or interesting, But because

1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:26.920
<v Speaker 1>she's already been so focused on her appearance, it feels

1:20:26.920 --> 1:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>like that's kind of the bigger takeaway from that moment.

1:20:30.560 --> 1:20:33.200
<v Speaker 2>And also the added in like Margaret Robbie is the

1:20:33.240 --> 1:20:35.840
<v Speaker 2>wrong person if you want to like blah blah blah,

1:20:35.840 --> 1:20:39.000
<v Speaker 2>which is a very funny joke, but yeah, I think that, Yeah,

1:20:39.040 --> 1:20:43.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like something that I like, we were talking about, Like,

1:20:43.840 --> 1:20:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I think that this does, in a really kind of

1:20:47.320 --> 1:20:52.280
<v Speaker 2>pernicious way, tie into this movie's fundamental inability to talk

1:20:52.280 --> 1:20:56.719
<v Speaker 2>about capitalism in a meaningful way because you can't talk

1:20:56.800 --> 1:21:01.120
<v Speaker 2>too much about the body stuff without being overly of Barbie,

1:21:01.200 --> 1:21:05.240
<v Speaker 2>who is bankrolling the movie. And I felt frustrated by

1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:07.640
<v Speaker 2>the cellulate joke. Again, it just felt like kind of

1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:11.439
<v Speaker 2>dated too, because it's not like there are not you know,

1:21:11.800 --> 1:21:14.960
<v Speaker 2>we have a fat Barbie. We have at least some body.

1:21:15.040 --> 1:21:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Diversity within the Barbie is not, you know, arguably not enough,

1:21:18.320 --> 1:21:20.599
<v Speaker 2>but there it does exist. And I was like, Okay,

1:21:20.720 --> 1:21:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I guess if you're like five D chessing it like, no,

1:21:24.640 --> 1:21:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Barbie has cellulite because they're all hard plastic. But you know,

1:21:28.960 --> 1:21:31.320
<v Speaker 2>the inherent message in there, it still felt like, yeah,

1:21:31.320 --> 1:21:33.440
<v Speaker 2>it was still pretty focused on looks.

1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Well because this whole thing, like it kind of just

1:21:36.360 --> 1:21:41.280
<v Speaker 1>boils down to yes, stereotypical. Barbie is known for being this,

1:21:41.400 --> 1:21:45.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, like ideal beauty standard. So it makes sense

1:21:45.479 --> 1:21:49.040
<v Speaker 1>that she would value that about herself, because when a

1:21:49.080 --> 1:21:54.240
<v Speaker 1>certain trait is valued by society, you tend to value

1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:59.240
<v Speaker 1>that about yourself or your condition to value that about yourself. However,

1:21:59.360 --> 1:22:03.599
<v Speaker 1>I feel like there was a big opportunity for Barbie

1:22:03.680 --> 1:22:06.599
<v Speaker 1>to learn that that's not a trait that she should

1:22:06.600 --> 1:22:09.639
<v Speaker 1>place so much emphasis on, or that she, you know,

1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:15.639
<v Speaker 1>should be expected to be valued by others about herself

1:22:15.800 --> 1:22:19.080
<v Speaker 1>based only on her appearance, and that she, you know,

1:22:19.120 --> 1:22:23.759
<v Speaker 1>should discover other qualities about herself. But the movie doesn't

1:22:23.800 --> 1:22:26.360
<v Speaker 1>fully get there. You know, there's a little bit at

1:22:26.360 --> 1:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the end when she is talking to the Ruth Handler

1:22:29.120 --> 1:22:32.479
<v Speaker 1>character about becoming human and wanting to be someone who

1:22:32.520 --> 1:22:37.080
<v Speaker 1>makes and creates ideas and contributes to society, but that

1:22:37.080 --> 1:22:40.960
<v Speaker 1>doesn't really feel super earned to me because everything we've

1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:44.000
<v Speaker 1>just saying learned about her thus far, A lot of

1:22:44.000 --> 1:22:46.479
<v Speaker 1>what we learned about her thus far is like her

1:22:46.520 --> 1:22:51.639
<v Speaker 1>placing so much emphasis on her appearance and like being

1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:54.120
<v Speaker 1>very fixated on that. And I feel like if that

1:22:54.320 --> 1:22:57.760
<v Speaker 1>arc had just been more like thoroughly explored, I feel

1:22:57.800 --> 1:23:00.559
<v Speaker 1>like I could have easily gotten there. But I don't know,

1:23:00.560 --> 1:23:02.280
<v Speaker 1>it just it didn't quite work for me.

1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:07.280
<v Speaker 2>I agree, but like to a slightly turned down extent,

1:23:07.320 --> 1:23:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess I think that the body issue is unexplored

1:23:12.000 --> 1:23:16.320
<v Speaker 2>in a way that I don't know, like it was disappointing.

1:23:16.360 --> 1:23:19.840
<v Speaker 2>And also because it is the Barbie movie, I was

1:23:19.880 --> 1:23:25.040
<v Speaker 2>not surprised that those kind of flaws were present because

1:23:25.040 --> 1:23:27.439
<v Speaker 2>this I don't think that this movie is handled to

1:23:27.520 --> 1:23:31.840
<v Speaker 2>truly meaningfully critique the product of Barbie, and because so

1:23:32.000 --> 1:23:36.360
<v Speaker 2>much of the critique around Barbie surrounds body issues, I

1:23:36.400 --> 1:23:39.800
<v Speaker 2>wasn't surprised that this movie doesn't crack that wide open,

1:23:39.920 --> 1:23:43.320
<v Speaker 2>because it's not a movie by its very existence that

1:23:43.640 --> 1:23:46.880
<v Speaker 2>would be able to But I don't know. I mean,

1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:49.800
<v Speaker 2>there's been so much talk about, like, well, what if

1:23:49.800 --> 1:23:52.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a Barbie two. First of all, just let the

1:23:52.200 --> 1:23:54.559
<v Speaker 2>movie be the movie. And also I think that, like,

1:23:54.920 --> 1:23:57.640
<v Speaker 2>were there a Barbi two, I would hope that, like,

1:23:58.240 --> 1:24:02.559
<v Speaker 2>if the focus on the first Barbie movie is on

1:24:03.400 --> 1:24:08.559
<v Speaker 2>tackling these stereotypes associated with Barbie, then it's like, and

1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:11.680
<v Speaker 2>let's move on, and let's focus on the Barbies that,

1:24:11.760 --> 1:24:14.000
<v Speaker 2>like we were talking about during the live show, are

1:24:14.080 --> 1:24:21.000
<v Speaker 2>present but not story present and deserve actual storylines. And

1:24:21.720 --> 1:24:24.280
<v Speaker 2>so I guess that that is what my hope would be.

1:24:24.720 --> 1:24:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess I wasn't super put off by it because

1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:30.439
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really expect more from the Barbie movie in

1:24:30.439 --> 1:24:34.360
<v Speaker 2>that regard, but like, I guess that transitions a little

1:24:34.360 --> 1:24:37.000
<v Speaker 2>bit into something that I was thinking. I mean, because

1:24:37.040 --> 1:24:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that by the nature of our jobs, we

1:24:41.080 --> 1:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I was even when I was seeing this

1:24:42.720 --> 1:24:44.519
<v Speaker 2>movie for fun, I was thinking about it from a

1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Bechdel cast lens, because what the movie is talking about

1:24:48.320 --> 1:24:51.040
<v Speaker 2>makes it kind of hard to not, you know, put

1:24:51.080 --> 1:24:53.559
<v Speaker 2>it on. Some movies are so just like Smooth Brain

1:24:53.640 --> 1:24:55.439
<v Speaker 2>that you're like, I'm just having fun. But like, it

1:24:56.040 --> 1:24:59.360
<v Speaker 2>was hard to not immediately, you know, because the movie

1:24:59.400 --> 1:25:04.080
<v Speaker 2>is trying to to interrogate however overly essentialist as we're

1:25:04.080 --> 1:25:06.640
<v Speaker 2>going to talk about and mentioned it in the live show,

1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:11.440
<v Speaker 2>but interrogate binary gender stereotypes as they pertain to Barbie.

1:25:11.680 --> 1:25:15.040
<v Speaker 2>I think that I got so honed in on that,

1:25:15.560 --> 1:25:18.200
<v Speaker 2>which is not a fault on my part. I mean,

1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the movie's asking you to do that, but I wasn't

1:25:20.200 --> 1:25:23.240
<v Speaker 2>thinking about alternate readings of the movie, and so I

1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:28.000
<v Speaker 2>wanted to just mention two that did not occur to me,

1:25:28.200 --> 1:25:32.400
<v Speaker 2>but I thought we're interesting to read more about. One

1:25:32.439 --> 1:25:36.559
<v Speaker 2>of them was the Ruth Handler is God Barbie's Jesus,

1:25:37.320 --> 1:25:40.040
<v Speaker 2>where Greta Gerwig has said at a number of points

1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:44.280
<v Speaker 2>in the press tour for this movie, yeah, that she

1:25:44.520 --> 1:25:48.440
<v Speaker 2>basically compares this to a reverse Adam and Eve situation.

1:25:48.920 --> 1:25:52.920
<v Speaker 2>She says in a Vogue interview from last May quote,

1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Barbie was invented first, Ken was invented after Barbie to

1:25:56.200 --> 1:25:58.799
<v Speaker 2>burnish Barbie's position in our eyes and in the world.

1:25:59.240 --> 1:26:01.559
<v Speaker 2>That kind of created myth is the opposite of the

1:26:01.600 --> 1:26:04.400
<v Speaker 2>creation myth in Genesis, and so I feel like it

1:26:04.600 --> 1:26:09.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of with that weird kind of biblical lens, some

1:26:09.160 --> 1:26:12.400
<v Speaker 2>of the creative choices make a little more sense to me,

1:26:13.080 --> 1:26:16.160
<v Speaker 2>but don't necessarily work like I feel like it's if

1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:18.960
<v Speaker 2>you're having to have these two things be true at

1:26:18.960 --> 1:26:21.639
<v Speaker 2>the same time it's and be a corporate movie. It's

1:26:21.640 --> 1:26:24.559
<v Speaker 2>basically impossible. But there were some choices that I didn't

1:26:24.760 --> 1:26:28.920
<v Speaker 2>like from a gendered perspective, Like we talked about during

1:26:29.240 --> 1:26:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the episode, the end scene with Barbie and Ken, where

1:26:32.080 --> 1:26:35.320
<v Speaker 2>she apologized to him, he doesn't apologize to her. I

1:26:35.360 --> 1:26:39.920
<v Speaker 2>think that, like, once I read the biblical interpretation of it,

1:26:40.000 --> 1:26:43.120
<v Speaker 2>that scene made more sense to me. But from the

1:26:43.280 --> 1:26:46.400
<v Speaker 2>gendered place, which is how it's basically presented to us,

1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:49.000
<v Speaker 2>it didn't work for me as much so, but I

1:26:49.000 --> 1:26:52.719
<v Speaker 2>did think it was interesting that that read is very

1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:55.440
<v Speaker 2>valid and at least somewhat intentional.

1:26:55.920 --> 1:26:59.439
<v Speaker 1>Sure, either way, I'm still going to be frustrated by

1:27:00.080 --> 1:27:03.479
<v Speaker 1>all of that emotional labor that Barbie is doing, all

1:27:03.520 --> 1:27:08.479
<v Speaker 1>of the apologizing that she's doing and receiving none in return.

1:27:08.840 --> 1:27:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all I was saying was that that read works

1:27:11.640 --> 1:27:13.720
<v Speaker 2>for the biblical thing, but it's also like, that's a

1:27:13.760 --> 1:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>biblical thing. Do I want to give that read deference?

1:27:17.760 --> 1:27:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Not really the other reading I wanted to reference because

1:27:22.240 --> 1:27:25.679
<v Speaker 2>I saw it a couple of times. There's a number

1:27:25.720 --> 1:27:29.920
<v Speaker 2>of pieces written about it, just about Barbie, and when

1:27:29.960 --> 1:27:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I say Barbie, I mean, Margo Robbie Barbie as an

1:27:34.360 --> 1:27:39.559
<v Speaker 2>asexual icon. Of course, she is not openly ace within

1:27:39.600 --> 1:27:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the movie, but either been a number of I think

1:27:42.640 --> 1:27:45.760
<v Speaker 2>really well written and thought out pieces that argue that

1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:50.240
<v Speaker 2>she is ace coded, including interviews that Marco Robbie has given.

1:27:50.720 --> 1:27:55.519
<v Speaker 2>In that same Vogue press tour, Robbie was asked, she's

1:27:55.560 --> 1:27:59.799
<v Speaker 2>my friend. Mago was asked if the character of Barbie

1:28:00.080 --> 1:28:04.479
<v Speaker 2>had sexual desire, and margat Robbie said no, I don't

1:28:04.479 --> 1:28:07.760
<v Speaker 2>think she could. She is sexualized, but I never thought

1:28:07.760 --> 1:28:11.160
<v Speaker 2>she should be sexy. People project sex onto her. Yes,

1:28:11.240 --> 1:28:13.559
<v Speaker 2>she could wear a short skirt, but because it's fun

1:28:13.600 --> 1:28:16.360
<v Speaker 2>and pink, not because she wanted you to see her butt.

1:28:16.960 --> 1:28:19.799
<v Speaker 2>So this is I'm pulling this argument from a salon

1:28:19.920 --> 1:28:24.839
<v Speaker 2>piece by Kelly Pow that came out last summer aka

1:28:25.000 --> 1:28:30.479
<v Speaker 2>The Season of Barbie think Pieces, But Kelly Powell essentially

1:28:30.880 --> 1:28:35.200
<v Speaker 2>makes the argument that while it is not a stated

1:28:35.920 --> 1:28:39.839
<v Speaker 2>choice with the character that Barbie's interests like, she openly

1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:44.519
<v Speaker 2>has no desire for a relationship. But basically what this

1:28:44.560 --> 1:28:48.080
<v Speaker 2>piece is describing that I feel like is often lost

1:28:48.360 --> 1:28:52.280
<v Speaker 2>in the discourse around as characters and ace people, of

1:28:52.320 --> 1:28:56.000
<v Speaker 2>which there are already so few in terms of characters.

1:28:56.720 --> 1:29:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Is that being a sexual does not preclude you from

1:29:02.040 --> 1:29:06.760
<v Speaker 2>rape culture, and that Barbie's character in this movie is

1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:09.640
<v Speaker 2>an interesting example of that that while she does not

1:29:09.920 --> 1:29:14.720
<v Speaker 2>desire a sexual relationship, she is still constantly piled on

1:29:14.960 --> 1:29:18.559
<v Speaker 2>by the rape culture that exists, by how people perceive her.

1:29:19.479 --> 1:29:23.760
<v Speaker 2>So I thought that was another, you know, interesting of

1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>the thing, because it just felt like, I mean, the

1:29:25.920 --> 1:29:30.240
<v Speaker 2>discourse around this movie was just so much that it

1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:33.439
<v Speaker 2>wasn't even as if these two reads were like not

1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:36.439
<v Speaker 2>able to be found, but there was just so much

1:29:36.479 --> 1:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>that I just wanted to say, hey, check this out.

1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was interesting.

1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I like that read, And I appreciate about this

1:29:44.800 --> 1:29:50.040
<v Speaker 1>movie that she doesn't end up with Ken and that

1:29:50.439 --> 1:29:54.439
<v Speaker 1>this romantic relationship isn't foisted on her when she clearly

1:29:54.640 --> 1:29:58.599
<v Speaker 1>is not interested in it. And after all that Ken

1:29:58.680 --> 1:30:02.720
<v Speaker 1>had done to ruined Barbieland so I thought that was

1:30:02.720 --> 1:30:06.559
<v Speaker 1>a really interesting and brave choice.

1:30:06.960 --> 1:30:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Again, just like something you never see in blockbusters

1:30:10.160 --> 1:30:14.120
<v Speaker 2>is I think even in Blockbusters, if you have a

1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:17.920
<v Speaker 2>lead character who's a woman or a fem that, even

1:30:17.960 --> 1:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>if they are very self motivated, they're movie the plot

1:30:21.960 --> 1:30:24.840
<v Speaker 2>alogue like, it's they're a great character. There still is

1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>generally like and here's their partner. And and again, obviously

1:30:29.280 --> 1:30:30.920
<v Speaker 2>we've talked about it on the show a million times,

1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:34.720
<v Speaker 2>not that that is lessening desire, but but it's just

1:30:34.880 --> 1:30:38.720
<v Speaker 2>very rare to see a protagonist who it's just like,

1:30:39.680 --> 1:30:42.240
<v Speaker 2>here's a hyper feminine protagonist, and we're not going to

1:30:42.320 --> 1:30:44.559
<v Speaker 2>force her to end up with someone like. I can't

1:30:44.640 --> 1:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>think of a popular example of that. That isn't a

1:30:48.400 --> 1:30:51.720
<v Speaker 2>child like that isn't like a movie for children.

1:30:52.640 --> 1:30:57.280
<v Speaker 1>It's it's very rare, and especially when the like the

1:30:57.320 --> 1:31:01.559
<v Speaker 1>source material is bar B plus ken like, you would

1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:05.200
<v Speaker 1>expect that to be how the movie ends up. But

1:31:05.320 --> 1:31:09.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm really glad that that wasn't the case. Agree, although

1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:13.439
<v Speaker 1>there is something at the end that I did find

1:31:13.520 --> 1:31:17.040
<v Speaker 1>very frustrating. We touched on this in the live show,

1:31:17.120 --> 1:31:21.439
<v Speaker 1>but I think it deserves more attention, which is that

1:31:21.560 --> 1:31:25.320
<v Speaker 1>when Barbie decides to return to the real world and

1:31:25.840 --> 1:31:29.439
<v Speaker 1>become human, the first thing that we see her do

1:31:29.840 --> 1:31:35.600
<v Speaker 1>is go to a gynecologist, and it's implied that she

1:31:35.800 --> 1:31:38.960
<v Speaker 1>has grown a vagina question mark.

1:31:39.040 --> 1:31:41.040
<v Speaker 2>The implications are quite scary.

1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:45.519
<v Speaker 1>They're scary, it's a very gender sensualist thing to imply

1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:50.479
<v Speaker 1>that because she apparently has a vagina, now that's how

1:31:50.479 --> 1:31:52.679
<v Speaker 1>you become a quote unquote real woman.

1:31:52.960 --> 1:31:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I was talking about this bravely with my boyfriend, not woo,

1:31:58.160 --> 1:32:00.400
<v Speaker 2>but I was talking about because that was a that

1:32:00.840 --> 1:32:06.000
<v Speaker 2>from view one I've always felt yucky about and because

1:32:06.040 --> 1:32:08.639
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think it comes from a hateful place.

1:32:08.680 --> 1:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I just think it comes from a thoughtless place and

1:32:11.000 --> 1:32:14.080
<v Speaker 2>that I was like, well what is because I like,

1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:17.040
<v Speaker 2>I've never not seen that, because it is also kind

1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:19.160
<v Speaker 2>of like a tongue in cheek kind of thing. But

1:32:19.160 --> 1:32:22.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, there's other ways to make this joke without

1:32:22.439 --> 1:32:26.800
<v Speaker 2>it having to be gender essentialist. I was like, can

1:32:26.840 --> 1:32:31.080
<v Speaker 2>we have her go buy some mace? Like can we Like,

1:32:31.479 --> 1:32:33.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of different ways to be like I

1:32:33.880 --> 1:32:39.960
<v Speaker 2>am joining the struggle of human women and femmes today

1:32:40.400 --> 1:32:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and I am buying mace and a knife to attach

1:32:44.040 --> 1:32:46.919
<v Speaker 2>to my keys or whatever it is, without it becoming

1:32:46.960 --> 1:32:50.799
<v Speaker 2>this creepy like you're saying like essential ast bio freaky,

1:32:51.000 --> 1:32:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just a dark road to go down. Don't

1:32:53.200 --> 1:32:56.479
<v Speaker 2>ever go down it. There's ways to make the point.

1:32:56.560 --> 1:33:00.479
<v Speaker 2>I think that they're trying to make without doing that.

1:33:01.160 --> 1:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>My pitch was like, why can't we just see her

1:33:03.400 --> 1:33:07.560
<v Speaker 1>like enrolling in a class.

1:33:07.439 --> 1:33:10.559
<v Speaker 2>Or something like. I like that, Like at the end,

1:33:10.600 --> 1:33:15.200
<v Speaker 2>she's like excited to do something that people dread. Like that,

1:33:15.320 --> 1:33:19.200
<v Speaker 2>it's like no one's smiling to go see their guynecologists,

1:33:19.240 --> 1:33:23.880
<v Speaker 2>but like no one's smiling when they're doing millions of

1:33:23.960 --> 1:33:28.759
<v Speaker 2>things associated with being a femin in the world, you know, right.

1:33:29.320 --> 1:33:33.479
<v Speaker 1>So, Greta Gerwig, I pulled a quote from her about this.

1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:38.040
<v Speaker 1>She says, quote, I knew I wanted to end on

1:33:38.160 --> 1:33:40.800
<v Speaker 1>a mic drop kind of joke, but I also find

1:33:40.800 --> 1:33:43.479
<v Speaker 1>it very emotional. When I was a teenage girl, I

1:33:43.520 --> 1:33:46.559
<v Speaker 1>remember growing up and being embarrassed about my body and

1:33:46.680 --> 1:33:49.519
<v Speaker 1>just feeling ashamed in a way that I couldn't even describe.

1:33:49.840 --> 1:33:51.559
<v Speaker 1>I felt like everything had to be hidden.

1:33:52.160 --> 1:33:53.240
<v Speaker 2>And then to see.

1:33:53.000 --> 1:33:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Margot as Barbie with this big old smile on her

1:33:56.080 --> 1:33:59.240
<v Speaker 1>face saying what she says at the end, with such

1:33:59.439 --> 1:34:02.320
<v Speaker 1>happiness and enjoy I was like, if I can give

1:34:02.360 --> 1:34:06.519
<v Speaker 1>girls that feeling of Barbie does it too. That's both

1:34:06.680 --> 1:34:12.879
<v Speaker 1>funny and emotional. Unquote, which fair I get, especially because

1:34:13.080 --> 1:34:18.080
<v Speaker 1>women and fems are encouraged to feel ashamed about their body.

1:34:18.360 --> 1:34:22.519
<v Speaker 1>But it just feels like, like you said, it wasn't

1:34:22.640 --> 1:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>carefully sought out and the implications of a joke like

1:34:26.040 --> 1:34:29.680
<v Speaker 1>that were kind of ignored.

1:34:29.520 --> 1:34:32.240
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, stuff like that. I agree, Yeah, I think

1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:34.800
<v Speaker 2>it's under that. And know it's also interesting to hear

1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:37.960
<v Speaker 2>her sort of internal logic. It makes sense that it

1:34:38.000 --> 1:34:40.920
<v Speaker 2>comes from a personal place. But again I think that

1:34:40.920 --> 1:34:44.759
<v Speaker 2>that's just that's almost like something that we rarely encounter

1:34:45.320 --> 1:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>in this exact context. But like that feels like the

1:34:49.439 --> 1:34:54.559
<v Speaker 2>oh tour risk that like people in those positions just

1:34:54.600 --> 1:34:58.080
<v Speaker 2>need to be really mindful about. Is that, like, if

1:34:58.120 --> 1:35:02.479
<v Speaker 2>you're projecting your experience as the experience, you're gonna come

1:35:02.560 --> 1:35:07.680
<v Speaker 2>up against issues like this that are intentional or not exclusionary.

1:35:08.120 --> 1:35:12.880
<v Speaker 2>And in this you know, in this case centering SIS

1:35:12.880 --> 1:35:15.439
<v Speaker 2>women right, And also I can acknowledge that you know,

1:35:15.520 --> 1:35:19.000
<v Speaker 2>SIS women, I mean, anyone could laugh at that joke

1:35:19.600 --> 1:35:22.280
<v Speaker 2>and that a lot of SIS women felt seen by it.

1:35:22.360 --> 1:35:24.320
<v Speaker 2>But I just feel like, as the button of a

1:35:24.400 --> 1:35:29.599
<v Speaker 2>movie that I really enjoyed, I was bummed out by it.

1:35:29.640 --> 1:35:31.439
<v Speaker 2>There are so many because I mean, there's just so

1:35:31.479 --> 1:35:35.599
<v Speaker 2>many ways to make that point without centering that there's

1:35:35.640 --> 1:35:38.759
<v Speaker 2>so many ways in which femmes are encouraged to feel

1:35:39.000 --> 1:35:42.360
<v Speaker 2>shame and discomfort. You really have a chrkey to rey Board.

1:35:42.280 --> 1:35:46.280
<v Speaker 1>So truly. Yes, a few other things that I found

1:35:46.400 --> 1:35:48.400
<v Speaker 1>frustrating about the movie. This is just going to be

1:35:48.439 --> 1:35:54.120
<v Speaker 1>a quicker list, But one is the joke that compares

1:35:54.320 --> 1:35:58.280
<v Speaker 1>what's happening in barbie Land with like Ken taking over,

1:35:59.000 --> 1:36:04.720
<v Speaker 1>comparing that who colonizers committing genocide against indigenous people in

1:36:04.760 --> 1:36:06.560
<v Speaker 1>the New World in the fifteen hundreds.

1:36:06.800 --> 1:36:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially in a movie that makes no attempt to

1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:14.920
<v Speaker 2>comment on Indigenous people in any other way except in

1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:19.200
<v Speaker 2>this one joke, and it Yeah, do not like no

1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:20.479
<v Speaker 2>another one.

1:36:20.920 --> 1:36:22.920
<v Speaker 1>And I hinted at this a little bit ago, but

1:36:23.080 --> 1:36:26.040
<v Speaker 1>the suggestion that the only people who play with dolls

1:36:26.320 --> 1:36:29.959
<v Speaker 1>are girls. This is the case in the opening sequence

1:36:29.960 --> 1:36:32.280
<v Speaker 1>with the little girls playing with the baby dolls, and

1:36:32.320 --> 1:36:36.400
<v Speaker 1>then later when weird Barbie is explaining to stereotypical Barbie

1:36:36.479 --> 1:36:40.519
<v Speaker 1>that there's usually a disconnect between the Barbie and the

1:36:40.960 --> 1:36:44.200
<v Speaker 1>girl who is playing with her, ignoring the fact that

1:36:45.120 --> 1:36:49.400
<v Speaker 1>boys and children of all genders play with dolls.

1:36:49.479 --> 1:36:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Which again, it felt very preventable. Like it, you don't

1:36:53.160 --> 1:36:56.600
<v Speaker 2>change the meaning of that statement by saying, like the

1:36:56.720 --> 1:36:57.519
<v Speaker 2>kid like.

1:36:57.600 --> 1:37:00.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the language could have been altered to to just

1:37:00.520 --> 1:37:03.439
<v Speaker 1>make it more gender inclusive, and it just didn't do it.

1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of Weird Barbie, I say justice for her. I

1:37:07.000 --> 1:37:09.240
<v Speaker 1>think she deserves more of an apology.

1:37:09.439 --> 1:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>I think weird Barbie could should have stolen someone's house.

1:37:13.520 --> 1:37:16.919
<v Speaker 2>I was like, weird Barbie should have done some damage.

1:37:16.960 --> 1:37:19.080
<v Speaker 2>I feel like if I was Weird Barbie, I would

1:37:19.080 --> 1:37:22.800
<v Speaker 2>be filling such rage in a way that I would

1:37:22.800 --> 1:37:24.479
<v Speaker 2>have been more interested. I would have been way more

1:37:24.520 --> 1:37:28.559
<v Speaker 2>interested in Weird Barbie exerting her rage onto the other

1:37:28.600 --> 1:37:31.880
<v Speaker 2>barbiees versus the Kens on the Barbies, because Weird Barbie,

1:37:32.479 --> 1:37:37.519
<v Speaker 2>unlike the Kens, has genuinely been wronged, right. She is

1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:42.160
<v Speaker 2>like Jennifer Hudson cat in Cats as I think I

1:37:42.280 --> 1:37:44.599
<v Speaker 2>loudly said to you in movie theater, But it's true.

1:37:45.080 --> 1:37:48.960
<v Speaker 2>She is. She is like memory, Like where's her memory?

1:37:49.000 --> 1:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>All alone in the moonlight? Like they said, like hard

1:37:51.960 --> 1:37:55.400
<v Speaker 2>enough Barbie says, she used to be the most beautiful Barbie,

1:37:55.439 --> 1:37:59.280
<v Speaker 2>but then she got old and weird, and now she's

1:37:59.320 --> 1:38:02.759
<v Speaker 2>been sent off to the island of misfit grinch Barbies.

1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:06.000
<v Speaker 2>And it's like that's literally Jennifer Hudson Cat, Yeah, tell

1:38:06.040 --> 1:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>me that's not her. What was the name, Grizabella, Grizabella

1:38:09.720 --> 1:38:12.120
<v Speaker 2>the glamour Cat. And then they gave her the gift

1:38:12.160 --> 1:38:13.960
<v Speaker 2>of death at the end. They should have done that.

1:38:14.000 --> 1:38:16.240
<v Speaker 2>They should have sent Weird Barbie up in the balloon

1:38:16.840 --> 1:38:19.040
<v Speaker 2>and just given her the sweet embrace of death if

1:38:19.040 --> 1:38:21.360
<v Speaker 2>that's what she wanted. Either way, we do know that

1:38:21.400 --> 1:38:24.280
<v Speaker 2>she knows what death is and I will never get

1:38:24.280 --> 1:38:25.920
<v Speaker 2>over that. But yeah, I think that like they were

1:38:26.040 --> 1:38:28.639
<v Speaker 2>just the fact that I mean, and I liked Kate

1:38:28.680 --> 1:38:31.880
<v Speaker 2>McKinnon's performance. I think the anesthetic is cool, Like the

1:38:32.080 --> 1:38:36.599
<v Speaker 2>joke of weird Barbie is awesome, but it just felt

1:38:36.600 --> 1:38:38.920
<v Speaker 2>like that character is like it's such a strong setup

1:38:38.960 --> 1:38:41.879
<v Speaker 2>for a character and such a perfect piece of casting

1:38:42.000 --> 1:38:46.400
<v Speaker 2>that it's like, let her fuck around. She's mostly just like,

1:38:46.720 --> 1:38:50.000
<v Speaker 2>it's all good that you've treated me horrifically, and I'm

1:38:50.080 --> 1:38:53.479
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer Hudson Cat, You're like, it's actually famously not all good.

1:38:53.800 --> 1:38:56.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not okay, and yeah, and then she's doing a

1:38:56.640 --> 1:39:00.120
<v Speaker 1>bunch of the labor to like save Barbie land on

1:39:00.280 --> 1:39:01.439
<v Speaker 1>brainwash the Barbie.

1:39:01.600 --> 1:39:04.439
<v Speaker 6>So it's like like Marco Robbie, Barbie keeps calling her ugly,

1:39:04.520 --> 1:39:07.280
<v Speaker 6>and I'm like, it feels very like Liz lemon coated,

1:39:07.360 --> 1:39:10.120
<v Speaker 6>where you're like, I mean, the cost of it makes

1:39:10.120 --> 1:39:13.040
<v Speaker 6>her look not you know, but but it's like you're

1:39:13.040 --> 1:39:15.200
<v Speaker 6>still looking at ka kit and be serious, you know.

1:39:15.520 --> 1:39:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Right, I mean it goes back to the stereotypical Barbie's

1:39:18.840 --> 1:39:22.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of obsession with image that like, I just wish

1:39:22.680 --> 1:39:24.559
<v Speaker 1>I'd been handled differently in the movie anyway.

1:39:25.120 --> 1:39:28.919
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, and I guess like with her obsession with image,

1:39:29.000 --> 1:39:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I think it makes sense that it's there, but it's

1:39:31.880 --> 1:39:36.639
<v Speaker 2>just not handled period kind of. It's just it just is.

1:39:37.080 --> 1:39:40.000
<v Speaker 2>It's like the Blockbuster. What happens in every Blockbuster where

1:39:40.000 --> 1:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>they're like, we're not doing the thing, but like to

1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:45.360
<v Speaker 2>some extent your always doing the thing.

1:39:45.479 --> 1:39:49.080
<v Speaker 1>The thing this is real quick. But I would also

1:39:49.120 --> 1:39:53.400
<v Speaker 1>say justice for Midge. I know, there's like the voiceover

1:39:53.439 --> 1:39:56.600
<v Speaker 1>that says, like, oh, let's not show Midge because a

1:39:56.760 --> 1:40:01.479
<v Speaker 1>pregnant or I'm sorry, a pregnant dog is just too weird.

1:40:01.600 --> 1:40:04.760
<v Speaker 1>And I don't disagree with that. I don't necessarily want

1:40:04.760 --> 1:40:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a pregnant doll.

1:40:06.200 --> 1:40:09.240
<v Speaker 2>If you've seen the doll, I like, because I also

1:40:09.320 --> 1:40:12.200
<v Speaker 2>wrote Justice Formage in my notes, Justice Formage as she's

1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:13.200
<v Speaker 2>presented in the movie.

1:40:13.320 --> 1:40:15.240
<v Speaker 1>In the movie, Yeah, and then you see the doll

1:40:15.320 --> 1:40:19.479
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, that is disturbing. But when you see

1:40:19.800 --> 1:40:22.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, Emerald Fanelle in the movie and then it

1:40:22.920 --> 1:40:25.000
<v Speaker 1>like pans away from her really quick, it just means

1:40:25.040 --> 1:40:31.840
<v Speaker 1>that there's a joke at the expense of a pregnant person. Yeah,

1:40:31.920 --> 1:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>so I didn't love that either.

1:40:35.240 --> 1:40:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I let it fly, but only because the dolls genuinely

1:40:38.200 --> 1:40:38.840
<v Speaker 2>bone chilling.

1:40:39.680 --> 1:40:44.240
<v Speaker 1>It's creepy. Yeah, I guess I don't know how succinctly

1:40:44.880 --> 1:40:49.879
<v Speaker 1>or thoughtfully I made any kind of like conclusive thoughts

1:40:49.960 --> 1:40:52.960
<v Speaker 1>throughout the live show, but I do just want to

1:40:53.000 --> 1:40:57.599
<v Speaker 1>say that, like bottom line, it's about women lifting each

1:40:57.600 --> 1:41:00.759
<v Speaker 1>other up and fighting against the patriarchy. Very few movies

1:41:00.800 --> 1:41:04.480
<v Speaker 1>are actually about that. It's not a movie that revolves

1:41:04.520 --> 1:41:10.879
<v Speaker 1>around a woman ending up romantically with a man. Instead,

1:41:10.920 --> 1:41:15.640
<v Speaker 1>it's a movie about a woman's self discovery and self actualization.

1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:21.200
<v Speaker 1>But I also think that this movie pretty accurately reflects

1:41:21.360 --> 1:41:26.160
<v Speaker 1>where we are at culturally in regard to feminism. You know,

1:41:26.240 --> 1:41:30.759
<v Speaker 1>it's again a big, high budget, high grossing movie about

1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:36.960
<v Speaker 1>feminism that still focuses on a character who is sis.

1:41:37.000 --> 1:41:40.840
<v Speaker 1>She's white, she's hyper feminine, she's traditionally beautiful, because that

1:41:41.000 --> 1:41:45.200
<v Speaker 1>is it's Margarot Robbie, because that is still what's largely

1:41:45.280 --> 1:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>valued by society. And even though there's more feminist discourse

1:41:49.960 --> 1:41:54.679
<v Speaker 1>in the mainstream culture than there was, and there's more

1:41:54.720 --> 1:41:58.439
<v Speaker 1>calling out sexism and patriarchal standards than there was, like

1:41:58.560 --> 1:42:02.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, a decade ago and certainly before that, intersectionality

1:42:03.000 --> 1:42:07.000
<v Speaker 1>is still not very mainstream. And I think this movie

1:42:07.040 --> 1:42:09.640
<v Speaker 1>reflects that. I think that the as we said, like

1:42:09.680 --> 1:42:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the attempts at inclusion are pretty surface level, and it

1:42:14.040 --> 1:42:18.519
<v Speaker 1>just means that we just have to keep pushing the

1:42:18.560 --> 1:42:22.880
<v Speaker 1>conversation right of intersectionality and meaningful inclusion.

1:42:23.080 --> 1:42:25.719
<v Speaker 2>And I think that this movie, I want to believe,

1:42:25.720 --> 1:42:28.599
<v Speaker 2>and I think we did discuss this in the live show,

1:42:29.160 --> 1:42:31.479
<v Speaker 2>is that while this movie leaves a lot to be

1:42:31.600 --> 1:42:37.080
<v Speaker 2>desired in terms of meaningful inclusion, that its success in

1:42:37.120 --> 1:42:40.439
<v Speaker 2>a just world leaves the way. Yeah. I mean, because

1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:43.280
<v Speaker 2>we've talked about this on this show for years, where

1:42:43.400 --> 1:42:47.000
<v Speaker 2>it's like proving again and again and again that a

1:42:47.120 --> 1:42:51.160
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote marginalized movie going population, which is ridiculous because

1:42:51.280 --> 1:42:55.360
<v Speaker 2>women are the majority of movie going population, like need

1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:59.959
<v Speaker 2>to be validated as worthy of being catered to directly.

1:43:00.640 --> 1:43:03.960
<v Speaker 2>And it's very rare that, like, at least in the

1:43:04.000 --> 1:43:08.800
<v Speaker 2>blockbuster sense, that women and friends are undeniably shown to

1:43:08.880 --> 1:43:14.200
<v Speaker 2>be can be a force behind a movie. And I hope,

1:43:14.520 --> 1:43:17.280
<v Speaker 2>and you know, blah blah blah, Like I don't believe

1:43:17.320 --> 1:43:19.120
<v Speaker 2>we live in a just world, but I hope that

1:43:19.200 --> 1:43:23.360
<v Speaker 2>the success of Barbie will lead two more meaningfully inclusive projects,

1:43:23.520 --> 1:43:27.879
<v Speaker 2>and hopefully this will be a stepping stone in building

1:43:27.960 --> 1:43:32.559
<v Speaker 2>blockbusters that are genuinely more inclusive. And I think building

1:43:32.600 --> 1:43:37.479
<v Speaker 2>blockbusters that are more genuinely inclusive mean straying from this

1:43:37.760 --> 1:43:43.880
<v Speaker 2>old ip because you're presented with a high fucking mountain

1:43:43.960 --> 1:43:47.560
<v Speaker 2>to scale if you're given Barbie ip like, it's it.

1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:51.439
<v Speaker 2>I really hope that the success of Barbie can be

1:43:51.600 --> 1:43:56.759
<v Speaker 2>taken as a sign that yes, in fact, women still

1:43:58.120 --> 1:44:01.800
<v Speaker 2>want to see movies, always have, always will, and to

1:44:01.960 --> 1:44:07.639
<v Speaker 2>invest in original stories that don't have these complicated and

1:44:08.080 --> 1:44:12.519
<v Speaker 2>fucked connections with body image, with race, with heteronormativity that

1:44:12.760 --> 1:44:17.280
<v Speaker 2>the Barbie property does. And so anyways, I think this movie, like,

1:44:17.400 --> 1:44:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we've talked about it all at this point,

1:44:19.520 --> 1:44:24.000
<v Speaker 2>but its failures should be discussed, and I hope that

1:44:24.080 --> 1:44:27.760
<v Speaker 2>its success means that those failures can be corrected by

1:44:28.120 --> 1:44:31.880
<v Speaker 2>directors down the line. And with that, let's take you

1:44:32.000 --> 1:44:36.120
<v Speaker 2>back to the Barbie past, where we provide our Barbie

1:44:36.120 --> 1:44:39.080
<v Speaker 2>past conclusive thoughts about the Barbie movie.

1:44:39.320 --> 1:44:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Wow, does the movie pass the Bechdel test?

1:44:46.560 --> 1:44:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

1:44:46.840 --> 1:44:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yes, immediately and all the time. And we

1:44:51.040 --> 1:44:54.000
<v Speaker 1>love that, and we love that. And when the Kens

1:44:54.040 --> 1:44:56.000
<v Speaker 1>are talking, they're usually talking about barbiees.

1:44:56.200 --> 1:44:56.760
<v Speaker 2>It's true.

1:44:56.760 --> 1:44:58.400
<v Speaker 1>It's like the reverse Spectel test thing.

1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:00.719
<v Speaker 2>It's true. They're either they're talking about Barbie or horses

1:45:00.720 --> 1:45:04.280
<v Speaker 2>and horses of indetermined gender. I feel like horses really

1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.479
<v Speaker 2>kind of get the short end of the stick in

1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:10.360
<v Speaker 2>this movie. I feel like horses, you know, they never

1:45:10.400 --> 1:45:13.320
<v Speaker 2>asked to be associated with patriarchy, That's true. Let them

1:45:13.320 --> 1:45:15.920
<v Speaker 2>be free. The Felicity girls are begging for it.

1:45:17.600 --> 1:45:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but what about our nipple scale? The scale world

1:45:20.560 --> 1:45:24.080
<v Speaker 1>we write the movie was zero to five nipples. Examining

1:45:24.080 --> 1:45:28.400
<v Speaker 1>it through an intersectional feminist lens, Yes, I'm between like

1:45:28.400 --> 1:45:31.880
<v Speaker 1>a three point five and four on this. I think

1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:37.000
<v Speaker 1>this movie is doing a lot more than most movies do.

1:45:37.600 --> 1:45:41.160
<v Speaker 1>And even though it misses opportunities to be more inclusive

1:45:41.400 --> 1:45:45.280
<v Speaker 1>and to be more intersectional, and to just open up

1:45:45.680 --> 1:45:52.800
<v Speaker 1>more conversations about capitalism and white supremacy and all the

1:45:52.800 --> 1:45:57.040
<v Speaker 1>things we discussed, it still is is a fun romp

1:45:57.240 --> 1:46:02.240
<v Speaker 1>about women taking down the patriarchy, and I love that,

1:46:02.520 --> 1:46:06.160
<v Speaker 1>so I think I'll go I'll go four nipples. Four

1:46:06.240 --> 1:46:08.880
<v Speaker 1>out of five is eighty percent, and that's still a

1:46:08.880 --> 1:46:13.360
<v Speaker 1>B minus and that feels honestly fair. So past Barbie

1:46:13.400 --> 1:46:19.679
<v Speaker 1>over here. I'll give one nipple to John Senna, whoever

1:46:19.720 --> 1:46:25.479
<v Speaker 1>the fuck that is never heard of him. I will

1:46:25.520 --> 1:46:28.719
<v Speaker 1>give one nipple to Esay, I will give one nipple

1:46:29.320 --> 1:46:35.680
<v Speaker 1>to Greta Gerwig, and I'll give one nipple to Margot Robbie.

1:46:36.000 --> 1:46:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that was not creative at all. I'm going to

1:46:40.360 --> 1:46:42.799
<v Speaker 2>go for as well. Yeah, I mean, based on everything

1:46:42.800 --> 1:46:45.000
<v Speaker 2>we've been talking about and stuff we didn't even have

1:46:45.040 --> 1:46:48.040
<v Speaker 2>time to talk about. I think that this movie is

1:46:48.080 --> 1:46:52.479
<v Speaker 2>because this movie exists and was so successful. I am

1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:56.559
<v Speaker 2>currently at the time of recording, optimistic that it will

1:46:56.680 --> 1:47:01.280
<v Speaker 2>lead to more women driven projects that are more inclusive

1:47:01.360 --> 1:47:04.000
<v Speaker 2>and are more thoughtful on the issues that this movie

1:47:04.000 --> 1:47:06.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't address. Because I is a Barbie movie ever going

1:47:06.800 --> 1:47:12.040
<v Speaker 2>to be capable of handling capitalism meaningfully. Probably not. But

1:47:12.360 --> 1:47:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I do feel like the success of this movie and

1:47:14.720 --> 1:47:19.080
<v Speaker 2>the fact that it is explicitly about women tackling women's

1:47:19.080 --> 1:47:24.200
<v Speaker 2>issues is really amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think that obviously,

1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:28.439
<v Speaker 2>the diversity of this movie is very surface. Y. I

1:47:28.439 --> 1:47:31.519
<v Speaker 2>still can't believe that they cast EASi Ray and gave

1:47:31.600 --> 1:47:35.200
<v Speaker 2>her ten lines like what is wrong with you? My

1:47:35.560 --> 1:47:37.680
<v Speaker 2>mom is a second grade teacher, And I asked, I

1:47:38.000 --> 1:47:40.759
<v Speaker 2>did a little study. I was like, what are kids'

1:47:40.760 --> 1:47:44.320
<v Speaker 2>favorite parts of the Barbie movie? And their favorite parts

1:47:44.360 --> 1:47:48.880
<v Speaker 2>are when Easiray shows up they are so thrilled and

1:47:49.120 --> 1:47:53.439
<v Speaker 2>do a leaper Mermaid. Wow, those are the parts that

1:47:53.560 --> 1:47:57.760
<v Speaker 2>matter to the children. And I celebrate that John Cena

1:47:57.800 --> 1:48:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Mermaids sort of crickets there because who is that? Who

1:48:02.600 --> 1:48:05.200
<v Speaker 2>is John Senna? Who's John Senna? I don't know who

1:48:05.280 --> 1:48:08.719
<v Speaker 2>that who that is? But yeah, I mean I also,

1:48:08.760 --> 1:48:12.160
<v Speaker 2>I just like, I really liked seeing this movie. It

1:48:12.200 --> 1:48:14.840
<v Speaker 2>puts me in a good mood to watch it, and

1:48:14.880 --> 1:48:16.280
<v Speaker 2>there's not a lot of movies that do it. And

1:48:16.320 --> 1:48:17.960
<v Speaker 2>I think it's gonna stand the test of time. And

1:48:18.000 --> 1:48:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that's really exciting. So I'm gonna give it

1:48:20.360 --> 1:48:23.840
<v Speaker 2>four nipples. I'm gonna give one to Greta Gerwig. I'm

1:48:23.880 --> 1:48:26.240
<v Speaker 2>gonna give one. Oh, I'm gonna give one to Arianna

1:48:26.280 --> 1:48:28.720
<v Speaker 2>green Blatt because I wish that Sasha had had more

1:48:28.760 --> 1:48:33.040
<v Speaker 2>to do, and she played the moody teenager really perfectly. Truly,

1:48:33.520 --> 1:48:37.880
<v Speaker 2>she was like giving full hot topic in her first

1:48:37.920 --> 1:48:40.919
<v Speaker 2>scene she had. I was like, all, but like the thumb,

1:48:41.160 --> 1:48:43.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, like the slave on the thumb. She could

1:48:43.560 --> 1:48:45.400
<v Speaker 2>have been wearing fingerless gloves and it would have worked.

1:48:45.400 --> 1:48:50.720
<v Speaker 2>And that's great. I'm going to give one nipple to

1:48:50.760 --> 1:48:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Issa Ray and I'm gonna give one nipple too. I'll

1:48:54.720 --> 1:48:56.640
<v Speaker 2>give one to John Senna as well. I hope he

1:48:56.720 --> 1:49:00.760
<v Speaker 2>catches a break at some point. He's really no, I'm

1:49:00.760 --> 1:49:03.880
<v Speaker 2>going to give min a DJ Collin because no, wait, wait,

1:49:03.880 --> 1:49:06.400
<v Speaker 2>wait no, I'm going to give my DJ collins ex wife.

1:49:09.920 --> 1:49:15.200
<v Speaker 2>May things have improved on her end? Yeah? Is that

1:49:15.240 --> 1:49:18.520
<v Speaker 2>an episode? That's our episode, everybody, mum.

1:49:20.240 --> 1:49:24.680
<v Speaker 1>And that was the Barbie Live Show. Thanks again to

1:49:24.760 --> 1:49:28.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone who came out to all of the shows that

1:49:28.040 --> 1:49:30.880
<v Speaker 1>we did on this tour. Thank you to the venues

1:49:31.040 --> 1:49:35.320
<v Speaker 1>for having us. We always have such fun doing live shows,

1:49:35.560 --> 1:49:36.200
<v Speaker 1>especially the.

1:49:36.160 --> 1:49:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Meet and greets, hanging out like actually just getting to

1:49:40.200 --> 1:49:42.760
<v Speaker 2>spend time with you. We really appreciate it very much.

1:49:42.840 --> 1:49:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to everyone who bought merch and again we have

1:49:46.360 --> 1:49:51.559
<v Speaker 1>another tour coming up in the UK, so if you

1:49:51.600 --> 1:49:57.200
<v Speaker 1>want to come see us do shows on Titanic or Shrek.

1:49:57.920 --> 1:50:03.880
<v Speaker 1>We know most movies of all time, possibly the two

1:50:03.920 --> 1:50:07.120
<v Speaker 1>movies that are most canon to this show, so you

1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:10.280
<v Speaker 1>know that we're gonna put on a spectacle.

1:50:10.040 --> 1:50:12.360
<v Speaker 2>And you can't call us misinterests because guess what, they're

1:50:12.439 --> 1:50:16.040
<v Speaker 2>directed by men. Sorry, uh no, we'll see you at

1:50:16.040 --> 1:50:18.400
<v Speaker 2>the UK. Thanks to everyone who came out to this

1:50:18.439 --> 1:50:22.320
<v Speaker 2>tour and as always, if you want to listen to

1:50:22.360 --> 1:50:26.080
<v Speaker 2>more Bechdel Cast, well you're very able to do that.

1:50:26.240 --> 1:50:29.960
<v Speaker 2>You can go right now to our patreon Akmatreon that's

1:50:29.960 --> 1:50:33.599
<v Speaker 2>patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, and for five dollars

1:50:33.640 --> 1:50:37.960
<v Speaker 2>a month, you have access to two additional episodes a

1:50:38.040 --> 1:50:42.360
<v Speaker 2>month around a fun theme hosted by Caitlin and myself.

1:50:42.400 --> 1:50:44.240
<v Speaker 2>It's always a good time, and you'll get access to

1:50:44.280 --> 1:50:46.760
<v Speaker 2>over one hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog there

1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:47.200
<v Speaker 2>as well.

1:50:47.400 --> 1:50:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, you can also go to our merch

1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:55.200
<v Speaker 1>store at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast, where

1:50:55.240 --> 1:50:58.439
<v Speaker 1>you can satisfy all of your merch needs and everything

1:50:58.479 --> 1:51:05.840
<v Speaker 1>there is designed by a one Jamie Loftus, So grab

1:51:05.880 --> 1:51:09.920
<v Speaker 1>your merch and stay tuned for the other live show

1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:12.280
<v Speaker 1>that we covered on this tour. That episode will be

1:51:12.360 --> 1:51:15.320
<v Speaker 1>coming out soon on The Wolf of Wall Street, so

1:51:15.520 --> 1:51:22.120
<v Speaker 1>keep your eyes peeled for that and other episodes. Ye Bye,

1:51:22.400 --> 1:51:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1:51:26.200 --> 1:51:30.000
<v Speaker 1>hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman,

1:51:30.320 --> 1:51:33.680
<v Speaker 1>edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

1:51:33.720 --> 1:51:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski. Our logo in

1:51:38.120 --> 1:51:41.439
<v Speaker 1>Merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

1:51:41.439 --> 1:51:45.639
<v Speaker 1>to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1:51:45.720 --> 1:51:48.000
<v Speaker 1>visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast