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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, just jumping in with a quick announcement, a

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Speaker 1: very exciting one. In addition to the shows that you'll hear,

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Speaker 1: Jamie and I plug on this episode for our upcoming

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Speaker 1: Shrek Tannic tour, we just added a show in Dublin

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Speaker 1: on May twenty ninth. We will be at the Irish

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Speaker 1: Film Institute and we are covering Titanic. So come to

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Speaker 1: that show that we were finally able to confirm in Dublin.

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Speaker 1: We're so excited for it. And then, speaking of Dublin,

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Speaker 1: come to my birthday show. I'm doing a stand up

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Speaker 1: comedy show with me and local comedians on my birthday

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Speaker 1: on May seventeenth, also in Dublin. That show is at

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Speaker 1: Hysteria Comedy Club. Tickets to both shows, as well as

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Speaker 1: tickets for all of the other shows on this tour,

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Speaker 1: can be found at Linktree Slash Bechtel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy the episode on the bich Doodcast.

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Speaker 3: The questions ask if movies have women and are discussions

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Speaker 3: just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? It's

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Speaker 3: the patriarchy, zephim vest start changing.

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Speaker 2: With the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Barbie Caitlin, Hi, Barbie, Jamie and Hi, Barbie listeners.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for tuning in. This is the

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Speaker 2: Bechdel Cast. My name is Barbie Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 1: And my name is Barbie Caitlin Durante. And this is

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Speaker 1: our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. And

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Speaker 1: this is a special episode because we went on tour

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Speaker 1: covering the Barbie Movie. We went to a bunch of cities.

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Speaker 1: What you're about to hear shortly is the live show

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Speaker 1: that we did. We this is the audio from the

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Speaker 1: Sacramento show we recorded.

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Speaker 2: This tour was such a blast we've in the past.

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Speaker 2: I mean, let's let's get into it. Folks. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're our family, your emergency contacts and vice versa. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: we were really excited to do the Barbie Show live.

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Speaker 2: This is sort of our first time doing We did

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Speaker 2: a five city tour, but we only covered two movies

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Speaker 2: and most of them were Barbie. And it was a

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Speaker 2: really cool experience because I feel like we got the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to build out I mean, I feel like a

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Speaker 2: lot of the time with the live episodes, we've built

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Speaker 2: out an episode, but this time we got to build

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Speaker 2: out a show and like it was just such a blast.

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Speaker 2: We went to San Francisco's, Sacramento, Dallas, Austin, and San Diego.

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Speaker 2: Four out of five of those cities were the first

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Speaker 2: time that we were going and meeting folks, and it

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Speaker 2: was just truly the best, And I mean it was

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Speaker 2: just really cool to see, you know, like a real

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Speaker 2: sense of camaraderie among Bachtel cast listeners. We had a

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Speaker 2: lot of people dressing up like just we come out

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Speaker 2: of live performance and most of the time we're cooped

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Speaker 2: up in our homes intensely discussing film and it's fun

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Speaker 2: discourse and then it's just like really fun and freeing

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Speaker 2: and nice to do that with the people who listen

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Speaker 2: to this show. So if you attended any of these shows,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming. Barbies. Chances are that

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Speaker 2: we talk to you personally because we are we enjoy

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Speaker 2: doing that. It's really fun and quite frankly, I just

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Speaker 2: like to see everyone's little outfits they're wearing. To quote

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Speaker 2: the Will Ferrell character I hate in this movie in

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Speaker 2: the least creepy way possible. Yes, but this was a blast,

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Speaker 2: and so this is our one of our live shows.

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Speaker 2: If you enjoy the vibe you're picking up and you

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Speaker 2: happen to live in the UK, well, guess what good news.

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Speaker 2: We're going on tour in the UK. We sure are.

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Speaker 1: At the time of this recording. We have shows booked

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Speaker 1: in late May in London, Oxford, Manchester and Edinburgh. So

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Speaker 1: if you live in or near any of those places,

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Speaker 1: or also if you just kind of live like anywhere

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Speaker 1: to do like a little good trip. Yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: want to do a little trip, we're taking a trip,

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Speaker 1: so you should too, So come see us live in

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Speaker 1: the UK. Tickets for those shows are at link Tree, Slash,

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Speaker 1: specdel Cast And we're so excited because we're covering Titanic

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Speaker 1: and Shrek.

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Speaker 2: The Shrek Tannic tour is going to go really hard,

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Speaker 2: So if you can be there, highly recommended that you

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Speaker 2: be there. Yeah, and yeah, again, thanks to everyone who

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Speaker 2: came out to the Barbie tour, and you know, thank

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Speaker 2: you to all of the venues that hosted us. We're

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Speaker 2: posting the episode from STAB Comedy Theater and Sacramento, but

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Speaker 2: there were so many wonderful places that hosted us along

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Speaker 2: the way. And yeah, so without further ado, we present

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Speaker 2: to you of Barbie Movie episode the beck Delcast. Oh

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Speaker 2: my goodness, Hi Barbie, Hi Barbie. How I like how

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Speaker 2: quickly the Barbie shows get corny, like they just have

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Speaker 2: to be. You're like, we're just pushing through it. We

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Speaker 2: gotta do it. How is everybody? Thanks for coming? Thank

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Speaker 2: you for coming? Hell, yeah, we're really about to be

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Speaker 2: here because we're doing two shows back to back. So

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Speaker 2: we're doing I guess it's like the Margot Robbie wearing pink.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we just took our kuayludes with the ninety the

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Speaker 1: ninety minute release, and so by the time that show starts,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be so fucked up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna pass out in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the show. We're gonna be crawling around. Anyways, we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about Barbie. So uh, okay, we'll do

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Speaker 2: the free applause thing first. Give it up if you've

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Speaker 2: ever listened to our show, Okay, give it up. If

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Speaker 2: you have not and you're being dragged here against your wall, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we have some people that's okay. At the safe space.

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Speaker 2: Usually we are not able to make eye contact with all. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So like if we do it's not personal. It's just

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Speaker 2: kind of like, there's nowhere to look. Who has seen

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Speaker 2: the Barbie movie?

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Speaker 1: Round of applause?

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Speaker 2: Did anyone not see it? Whoa wow? People in San

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Speaker 2: Francisco last night who didn't know who we were hadn't

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Speaker 2: seen Barbie but still like wandered in and could not

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Speaker 2: account for why like it was and they still loved

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Speaker 2: the shows. I mean did they? I don't know. It

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Speaker 2: was hard to say. But you know, whoever that man was,

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Speaker 2: I'm rooting for him. I would never root for a

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Speaker 2: man true Eli ship. Okay, so well we'll kind of

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Speaker 2: get right into it. So Caitlin, Yeah, I know you've

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Speaker 2: seen the Barbie movie. It's true. Oh. One of my

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Speaker 2: favorite parts of the movie is when Easter races the

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Speaker 2: Godfather and he's like, oh, yeah, the Godfather? Right? Oh

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Speaker 2: is this the Godfather? Just like one of my favorite

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Speaker 2: line reads every But Okay, so I know you've seen

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Speaker 2: the movie. What is your history with Barbies in general?

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Speaker 1: I did play with them. Brave brave of me to say, yes,

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Speaker 1: I had a handful as a kid. I mostly made

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Speaker 1: them have sex with each other. I had horny Barbies.

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Speaker 1: I also like probably played with them in other contexts,

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Speaker 1: but I don't remember that. And then after a while,

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Speaker 1: I was like sort of out growing or I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was outgrowing barbies. But I had a sister.

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Speaker 2: She's still alive. I have a sister.

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Speaker 1: She's three years younger than me, and so she was

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Speaker 1: still in her barbie playing phase, and like, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: just kind of like out of obligation, I would still

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Speaker 1: play with her. But I was like, I'm too old

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Speaker 1: for this, I'm too cool for this. So I turned

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Speaker 1: so many of my barbies into weird barbies. I would

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Speaker 1: chop off all their hair, I would paint them with

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Speaker 1: nail polish. I would pop off their heads, their limbs,

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Speaker 1: like I was just destroying the hell out of them

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Speaker 1: and having a blast.

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Speaker 2: That's real older sibling behavior. This is just mensing.

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Speaker 1: What about you, what's your barbie history and experience.

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Speaker 2: I've been preparing for this episode my whole life. Hi,

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Speaker 2: I liked barbies when I was a kid. I like

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Speaker 2: had a million cousins, so most of my barbies were

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Speaker 2: handed me downs from them. And then my mom did

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Speaker 2: that thing where she like, we didn't have any money,

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Speaker 2: and yet she went into credit card debt, getting barbies

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Speaker 2: I couldn't touch, and then she'd be like, this is

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Speaker 2: going to pay for your college and you're like, they

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Speaker 2: shockingly are still at her house. They have accomplished nothing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, my mom was a doll collector and I

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Speaker 2: really liked dolls, but I couldn't like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It was like the thing, especially when I hit middle school,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't let myself just like something. I had to

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Speaker 2: turn it into like I had to intellectualize it, right,

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Speaker 2: So I was thank you, but like I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's not that I like the movie Titanic because it's

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Speaker 2: a perfect movie. I actually am really into naval history.

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Speaker 4: So it just kind of intersects with this interest I have,

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Speaker 4: and so I weirdly know a lot about naval history

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Speaker 4: to cover up for the fact that I and it's

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Speaker 4: similar with Barbie's.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to just be like I like playing

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Speaker 2: with dolls. I was like, it's actually an anthropological history

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Speaker 2: of American play things. And You're like, oh, what the

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Speaker 2: fuck was she talking about?

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Speaker 1: You know, how how did it feel when you released

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Speaker 1: yourself from that need to and then you could just

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Speaker 1: be like, I like what I like?

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Speaker 2: I think you?

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Speaker 1: Uh, well, no, I don't know. Sorry, this just became

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Speaker 1: a therapy section.

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Speaker 2: I think when I let lose, I let to lose,

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Speaker 2: and then people were coming over to the apartment and

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Speaker 2: they were like, it's too many dolls, you know. They

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Speaker 2: were like, put some we're being watched, you know. But

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Speaker 2: I also went through the phase and and you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't think I was wrong to do this, but

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Speaker 2: I think they went in middle school. I went through

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Speaker 2: the phase where I wrote the Mattel Corporational letter. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I gone onto Microsoft word and I had a thing

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Speaker 2: or two to say about the body standards that Marbie encouraged.

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Speaker 1: With Clippy, like are you writing a letter?

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Speaker 2: Clippy was like, hey, Jamie, I support you fight the

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Speaker 2: power feminist icon and ally Clippy, I let's hope so God.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, non binary icon, Clippy, it's true. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I like wrote a strongly worded letter and then returned

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Speaker 2: to my Barbies to play so, you know, child or

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Speaker 2: full of shit? But yeah, I loved Barbie. I have

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Speaker 2: a couple of slides to this effect. I also saw

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Speaker 2: did anyone watch the Barbie animated movies? Yeah? One person? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you were either like my I didn't because they were like,

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Speaker 2: mostly there's me and my dolls. I'm actually this is

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Speaker 2: me on ludes and I was kind of intersects with

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Speaker 2: the second, but yeah, this is me on ludes with

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Speaker 2: all my handmaidown dolls. And then I want to share

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Speaker 2: some of my favorite haunted Barbies that I've learned about

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Speaker 2: in preparing for this episode. We could go to the

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Speaker 2: next slide. This is Chuck E Cheese Barbie. We have

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Speaker 2: two of them.

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Speaker 1: My god, I know.

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Speaker 2: Isn't she great? She's wearing a Canadian tucks to go

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Speaker 2: to Chuck E Cheese alone. I can get behind that.

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Speaker 2: Next slide is Rosie Rosie o'donald Barbie. You have to

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Speaker 2: love it, you have to support it. I have her

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Speaker 2: at home. So that's my history with Barbie. Right.

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Speaker 1: Should we talk about the movie?

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Speaker 2: I guess yeah we should. It's Caitlin's famous recap.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, Okay. The Barbie Movie opens on a reference

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Speaker 1: to two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, where narrator

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Speaker 1: Helen Mirren explains that for a long time, dolls were

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Speaker 1: always baby dolls, meaning that the little kids who played

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Speaker 1: with them could only ever play it being like mother

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Speaker 1: or parent, until Barbie dolls came along and changed everything

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Speaker 1: because Barbie she's got money, she's got a house, she's

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Speaker 1: got a car, she's got a career.

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Speaker 2: They girl boss her right away. I love how it's

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Speaker 2: like it starts with this really funny parody and then

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Speaker 2: it immediately goes to amercial. You're just like, all right,

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Speaker 2: this is what the movie is. I think it's so funny.

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Speaker 2: And I've seen so many i don't know, like kind

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Speaker 2: of twitter pilled criticisms. They're like, this movie's so corporated,

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Speaker 2: it's a commercial. I'm like, yeah, it's a Barbie movie. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what are you taking about? And then they're like, I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna go watch Fast and Furious, which is definitely not

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Speaker 2: a commercial.

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Speaker 1: All right, Yes, okay, So Barbie she's got it all.

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Speaker 1: She can be anything, which means that women can be

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Speaker 1: anything and all the problems of feminism and equal rights

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Speaker 1: have been solved, or at least that's what the Barbie's

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Speaker 1: in Barbie Land think. And so we cut to barbieland

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Speaker 1: we meet Margo Robbie as stereotypical Barbie. She's perfect, she

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Speaker 1: lives in her dream house. She has so many Barbie friends,

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Speaker 1: some of them are played by Isa Ray Alexander Ship,

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Speaker 1: Emma Mackie to name a few. That's what I wrote

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Speaker 1: down in my notes.

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Speaker 2: Brave, thank you, and we already we get the foot

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Speaker 2: shot right away and immediately we're just like Quentin Tarantino

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Speaker 2: dead in a ditch. I was like, Wow, a footshot

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Speaker 2: that is also moving the plot forward.

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Speaker 5: This wasn't that hard, wouldn't be because when Quentina what

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Speaker 5: did I say when when Quentin Tarantino showed this very

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Speaker 5: actor's foot in a different movie.

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Speaker 1: Aka, Once upon a Time in Hollywood?

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Speaker 2: It was for It was for no reason's whole. Yeah. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: I was like, Wow, the Wiki feet community really won

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Speaker 2: with that one. We checked Margaret Robbie's Wiki feet on

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Speaker 2: stage last night because I just like to keep up

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Speaker 2: with the community, and she has the first perfect score

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Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Wow. Fine, you don't have to pretend

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Speaker 2: to care. It's fine. I thought it was interesting and

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Speaker 2: we can move on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So Barbie gets ready for her day.

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Speaker 2: She heads to.

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Speaker 1: Beach because that's where the that's where the Ken's hang

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Speaker 1: out because Ken's job is beach of his beach.

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Speaker 2: And we meet.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Gosling Ken, who is stereotypical Barbie's boyfriend. We meet

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Speaker 1: some other Kens as well as Alan played by Michael

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Speaker 1: Sarah shut out Alan. He's an ally.

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Speaker 2: He's an Alan and he's an Ally. It's a perfect

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Speaker 2: Barbie archival. They're like, remember this guy, he just wore

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Speaker 2: Ken's clothes for a couple of years. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: about Alan until the movie. Have you heard of him?

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Speaker 2: Heard of him?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: But now I can never forget. He stands at the

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Speaker 2: edge of my bed. I have sleep, per.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So Ryan Gosling Ken is very insecure and all

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Speaker 1: of his worth is entirely at attached to how much

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Speaker 1: Barbie likes him and how much attention she pays to him.

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Speaker 1: Then she invites him to her party that night, where

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Speaker 1: all the Barbiees and all the Kens are dancing and

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Speaker 1: it's a great time until Barbie says, do you guys

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Speaker 1: ever think about dying? And everyone's like what?

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Speaker 2: But but they do know what dying dying is? Who

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Speaker 2: told them?

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Speaker 1: Who told them? They also know what genitals are and

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Speaker 1: that they don't have them, And that makes you think

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Speaker 1: how they know about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know, I would let Yeah, they're aware

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Speaker 2: of a lot of complexity, but they're wilfully ignorant of it. Sure,

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Speaker 2: so it is like not too different from our world

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Speaker 2: in that way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So this is the start of some weird

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Speaker 1: things happening for Barbie, Like she steps out of her

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Speaker 1: high heels and her FeCO flat instead of staying in

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Speaker 1: like tiptoe shape. So Barbie goes to Weird Barbie played

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Speaker 1: by Kate McKinnon to see what's going on, and Weird

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Speaker 1: Barbie tells her that there's a rift between Barbieland and

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Speaker 1: the real world and whoever is playing with her in

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Speaker 1: the real world must be sad and is projecting that

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Speaker 1: sadness onto Barbie. So Barbie has to go into the

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Speaker 1: real world to fix it. So she leaves Barbieland via

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Speaker 1: various modes of transportation and a very fun montage, but

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Speaker 1: she realizes that Ken has stowed away with her and

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Speaker 1: wants to come, and she reluctantly lets him tag along.

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Speaker 1: Then they arrive in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?

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Speaker 5: They have?

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Speaker 2: We have, That's why she said that.

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Speaker 1: And they notice that things seem to be reversed where

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Speaker 1: it's men who have all the power and privilege and

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Speaker 1: opportunity in this world and when and have very little

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Speaker 1: of those things. Barbie sets out to find the girl

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Speaker 1: who's playing with her, and she sees visions of a

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Speaker 1: girl playing with Barbie's. Then the girl becomes a teen

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Speaker 1: and she has a difficult relationship.

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Speaker 2: With her mom.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Ken is walking around Century City and he discovers

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Speaker 1: patriarchy and horses.

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Speaker 2: I really the images to represent patriarchy are really it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, patriarchy, Three Sylvesters, Still, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan,

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Speaker 2: Minnie Fridge, yup yup horse telling a woman to go away,

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Speaker 2: And you're like, all right, it's a I really love that.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's feminism one on one, but even it resonates,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it works. This also begins a split in

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Speaker 2: the movie that continues throughout, which is that Ken is

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Speaker 2: doing something fun and funny and Barbie is elsewhere crying.

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Speaker 2: This Yes, this becomes a big theme through the movie.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes I'm like, we gotta we gotta like, cunt

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Speaker 2: this lady a break. Oh my god, she's weeping seriously

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Speaker 2: and she's not. I'm not judging her for that. Bad

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Speaker 2: things keep happening to her. It's too close to home.

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Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings because it's like, yes, I also

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Speaker 1: cry under the patriarchy all the time, but I also

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Speaker 1: have fun.

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Speaker 2: I also horse. It's like major horse girl erasure when

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Speaker 2: you think about it. Yeah, you know why doesn't Barbie

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Speaker 2: love horse? Horse? Barbie famously loves horse. Hello, she's a Barbie.

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Speaker 2: Barbie loves horse. And then that American girl do all

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Speaker 2: loves horse? Wait? Which one, Felicity?

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Speaker 1: Someone else said it for three people?

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Speaker 2: Okay, we have some bas I was a Kirsten Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she had the loopy braids. Remember I no one

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Speaker 1: cares well. Carsten was kind of a mid one.

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Speaker 2: I was a kit Kittridge girl, little miss reporter during

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Speaker 2: the Great Depression, and then when and then when I

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Speaker 2: got really depressed during lockdown, I bought another one. Melody.

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Speaker 2: She's a motown singer from the sixties. Whoa These ones

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Speaker 2: didn't exist when I was. They know, they exist for

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Speaker 2: like children. Now I shouldn't have it, Okay, okay, but

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Speaker 2: I love her. She's one of the many watching eyes

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Speaker 2: in my own all right.

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Speaker 1: So Ken discovers patriarchy and he freaking loves it. Then

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Speaker 1: we cut two Mattel Headquarters, where the CEO Mattel, played

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Speaker 1: by Will Ferrell, learns that a Barbie and a Ken

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Speaker 1: have escaped into the real world. This is overheard by

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Speaker 1: Will Ferrell's executive assistant, Gloria played by America Fererra, who

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Speaker 1: is like doodling and designing new Barbies such as Irrepressible

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Speaker 1: Thoughts of Death Barbie and full body Cellulate Barbie, and

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Speaker 1: we're like, hmm, is there a connection here? Then we

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Speaker 1: cut back to Barbie and Ken at a school where

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Speaker 1: Barbie approaches the girl from her vision. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Sasha played by Ariana Greenblat, but rather than the warm

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Speaker 1: welcome that Barbie was expecting, Sasha is like, hey, Barbie,

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Speaker 1: you've been making girls feel terrible about themselves for decades.

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Speaker 2: Is like, dear Mattel, yeah, I have some strong feelings

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Speaker 2: about Barbara Millicon Roberts and it's not wrong. And a

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Speaker 2: Clippi was like, are you writing a letter?

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Speaker 1: H and so she's like, yeah, you make girls feel

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Speaker 1: horrible about themselves and you're a fascist.

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Speaker 2: And then once again we have Ryan Gosling looking at horses,

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Speaker 2: Barbie crying crying, yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: So then Ken heads back to Barbieland to teach the

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Speaker 1: other Kens what he learned about patriarchy. Meanwhile with Barbie.

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Speaker 1: So some guys show up who work at Mattel to

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Speaker 1: take her back to Mattel headquarters, but Barbie is uneasy

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Speaker 1: about the whole thing. She doesn't trust Will Ferrell, so

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Speaker 1: she runs away. As she's escaping, she stumbles upon a

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Speaker 1: woman named Ruth played by Rhea Pearlman. They have a

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Speaker 1: quick conversation and then Barbie escapes from the Mattel building.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is when it kind of it's kind

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Speaker 2: of established that in this world, Rea Pearlman is God

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Speaker 2: and that yes really works for me, makes sense. There's

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Speaker 2: like that moment where they're doing the Sistine Chapel thing

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Speaker 2: where she like passes her the tea cup and you're like, whoa,

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Speaker 2: this is getting And then I went and there's all

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Speaker 2: these Book of Genesis references. It's a you know, the

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Speaker 2: discourse around this movie is a fucking disaster, but you

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Speaker 2: can find the clickbait about like is Barbie the Book

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Speaker 2: of Genesis? And then I read it and I was

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Speaker 2: kind of sweet, Yeah, I was like I get it.

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Speaker 2: Barbie Land the Garden of Eating, the you know you

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Speaker 2: can get Yeah, I don't want to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: but you can see that out on your own if

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Speaker 2: you want, okay.

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Speaker 1: So Barbie escapes the Matila building and she's picked up

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Speaker 1: by Gloria and Sasha because Gloria is Sasha's mother, and

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Speaker 1: Barbie realizes that it wasn't Sasha's memories she was seeing,

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Speaker 1: it was Gloria's.

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Speaker 2: I love this scene because it's a lot of like

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Speaker 2: characters connecting an exposition intercut with car commercial. It's really fun.

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Speaker 2: It's really like people are like dunking on this scene

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Speaker 2: and you're just like, fuck you, I don't know. I

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Speaker 2: think it's funny. And Greta Gerwig didn't even direct the

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Speaker 2: car shots. She was like, someone else can tink here,

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Speaker 2: that's not my problem.

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Speaker 1: She's like, who directed Fast and the Furious. We get

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Speaker 1: him for a day, all right. So they figure out

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Speaker 1: this connection between them. They dodge the Mattel executives and

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Speaker 1: they need a place to hide, so the three of

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Speaker 1: them go to Barbieland. When they arrive, though, Barbieland is different,

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Speaker 1: it's not a place full of women's leadership and empowerment.

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Speaker 1: It is now a ken driven society.

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Speaker 2: They start with like the scene from Top Gun. They're

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Speaker 2: doing Top Gun volume.

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Speaker 1: Wait, yeah, all the Barbies are now like subservient to

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Speaker 1: the Ken's needs.

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Speaker 2: Ken has Stevens's brother is running for president.

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Speaker 3: Ye.

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Speaker 1: Ken has basically just infected barbiland with patriarchy and horses.

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Speaker 1: He's turned Barbie's dream house into Ken's Mojo Dojo Casa house.

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Speaker 1: He's brainwashed all the Barbies all of that. So Barbie

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Speaker 1: is horrified and devastated, and she's crying again.

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Speaker 2: She is crying again, and she's and this time there's

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Speaker 2: no coming back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no. So eventually she and Gloria and Sasha pay

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Speaker 1: a visit to Weird Barbie to figure out what to do.

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Speaker 2: I feel like Weird Barbie is kind of like a

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Speaker 2: friendly Grinch figure where she lives on the outskirts of

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Speaker 2: town at the top of a mountain. It's like if

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Speaker 2: you went to the Grinch's house and he was like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I know you hate me, but that's all good.

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Speaker 1: Weird Barbie is also like Morpheus from the Matrix, like

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Speaker 1: here's your two choices, Red Pillar, blue Pill.

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Speaker 2: And then I just feel like, I don't know, there's

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Speaker 2: a version of this movie to me where like Weird

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Speaker 2: Barbie gets like a laser gun and tries to like

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Speaker 2: exact revenge on the Barbies that have been talking shit

429
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: about her. I kind of want that for her. She's

430
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: really taking it lying down.

431
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, justice for weird Barbie.

432
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: At the end the she's like, can I be the

433
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: Queen of Garbage and and he's he's like, yeah, sure

434
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: you can be garbage.

435
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: Oh no, I want so much more. Yeah for her.

436
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 2: Okay.

437
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,719
Speaker 1: So they all figure out a plan to unbrainwash the

438
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: Barbies and regain control of Barbieland via a series of

439
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: feminist monologues from Gloria and it works. And now the

440
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: Barbies have to get the Kens to turn on each other,

441
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: which they do by making them jealous of each other

442
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: via them playing guitar at the Barbies doing match Bugs

443
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: twenty covers.

444
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: It's too easy, but I laugh every time.

445
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: It's so funny. This is also where we get Ryan

446
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: Gosling singing I'm just Ken. Then the Kens go to

447
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: war with each other. During the battle, like while they're distracted,

448
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 1: the Barbies go to the White House or the Pink House,

449
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: I guess, and they're like, okay, let's vote to regain constitution.

450
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: So they regain control of Barbieland. And then Barbie and

451
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: Ken have a conversation where for some reason she apologizes

452
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: to him.

453
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: And he says, thanks for saying that. I was like

454
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: you motherfucker. Literally, I that is like a point in

455
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 2: this movie that I am so baffled by. Want I

456
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 2: have to like, I have to blame it on studio

457
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: notes in my mind, because it doesn't make sense to

458
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: me that like in the previous scene, we have like

459
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: this brief sort of quiet scene with America Ferrera and

460
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: Margot Robbie and America Frere is like, he is trying

461
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: to take over the government. He stole your house, you

462
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: brainwash your friends, and Margot Robbie Barbie's like, yeah, that's right,

463
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 2: I don't have to feel bad for him. And then

464
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: in the next thing, she's like, I'm so sorry for

465
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: the perceived slight and then he's like, well, you shouldn't

466
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 2: have done that. Why I stole your house?

467
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and then on top of that, she goes

468
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: on to do a lot of emotional labor to be like, Ken,

469
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: it's time for you to discover who you are outside

470
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,719
Speaker 1: of your relationship to me, and he's like okay, and

471
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: then again no apology, not even a thank you.

472
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: No, he pays it forward to the other Kens. Yes,

473
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: and she's also I mean she's doing emotional labor for

474
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: him the whole time, like from the first frame he's

475
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: in where he's like, am I cool, She's.

476
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: Like like yes, okay. So then some changes are made to

477
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: barbieland such as weird Barbie is allowed to integrate into

478
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: Barbie society yea. Some of the Kens are also given

479
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of political power. And then Will Ferrell

480
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: and the other Mattel executives have arrived in barbieland to

481
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: close the portal between the two worlds. I don't even

482
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: know why they're there, but get them out out of

483
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: Barbie Land. And then Sasha is like, well what about Barbie,

484
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: Like what's her ending? And Barbie doesn't really know what

485
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: she wants. But the woman from earlier, Ruth, appears again.

486
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: She turns out to be Ruth Handler, inventor of the

487
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: Barbie Doll Wow, And then she and Barbie have another

488
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: conversation that helps Barbie realize that maybe she's not Barbie anymore,

489
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: and maybe she wants to be where the people are

490
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: she wants to see, wants to see them dancing, okay.

491
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: And then no, no, no, whole song please Okay, yeah,

492
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: what do you call them feet? And then we see

493
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: the Quentin Tarantina shot again. It's perfect, perfect.

494
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: And then she becomes human and the movie ends in

495
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: Los Angeles with Gloria and Sasha dropping Barbie off at

496
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: a gynecologist appointment. Not how I would have ended, a

497
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,959
Speaker 1: little bitter.

498
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: Essentialism there, but that's the movie. That's the movie. Wow,

499
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: thanks Caitlin. Yeah, so before we get started, because there

500
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: is some reference to Barbie history here, I'm putting my

501
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: weird hobby to use and I'm going to share a

502
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: little bit of Barbie history with you. So if we

503
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: could get up the Ruth Handler. Okay, so that's the

504
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: real Ruth Handler. She is a co founder of Mattel

505
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: and the creator of Barbie. She was like one of

506
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: the few women working in toys in the nineteen forties

507
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 2: as well as one of the only Jewish women working

508
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: in toys in the nineteen forties. And she co founded

509
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: Mattel with two other men, her husband Elliott, and a

510
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: guy named Matthew. And they made the name of the

511
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: company a combination of matt and Elliott. No Ruth to

512
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: be seen. They will pay because they died, so did

513
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: she in any case, I'm a Ruth fan. They originally

514
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: make a bunch of other toy products, and she keeps

515
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: pitching this idea of an adult fashioned doll with boobs,

516
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: and male executives are like, boobs on a doll, you're

517
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 2: a pervert, and so she's not allowed to make it

518
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: for years and years because boobs on a doll, you're

519
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: a pervert. Eventually she sees this German doll called bill

520
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: Lily that has boobs, and then the men are like,

521
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: all right, well, if one man thought it was a

522
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 2: good idea, I guess we could do it. So they

523
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: make Barbie. They name it after her daughter, Barbara, who's

524
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: in the next slide here. I believe, Yes, there's Barbara,

525
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: there's Barbie. She originally fucking hated Barbie's as is her right,

526
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: She's like, mother, how could you? But yeah, there's like

527
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: a few biographs details given about Ruth and the movie

528
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: that are all true, including I think she says I'm

529
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: a tiny woman with a double misseectomy and tax evation issues.

530
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: All of these are true. She was technically sentenced to

531
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: forty five years in prison. Jordan Belfoort vibe, I know

532
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: and like Jordan Belfort. She was a wealthy white person

533
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 2: and did not actually serve I think any time in prison.

534
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: She got community service, which is horseshit. And also she

535
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: defrauded rich people, so we were like, well, yeah, in

536
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: any case, she didn't go to jail, but she was

537
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: forced to resign from Mattel. And what she pivoted to

538
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: then is she had had a double misseectomy. She was

539
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: a two time breast cancer survivor and had spoken publicly

540
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: about having self esteem issues after the last of her breasts,

541
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: and so she invented a second really successful product that

542
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: was sort of a I don't know how to describe

543
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 2: this product correctly, but it was basically like fake boobs

544
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: that you could put on like a bra if you'd

545
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: had a missectomy. You could get it in one, you

546
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: could get into both whatever you needed. And that was

547
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: really successful as well. And yeah, she was, you know, scammer,

548
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: criminal who had two really successful intentions.

549
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: From from Barbie to Brobbie.

550
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: Don't encourage that. No, it was good.

551
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: It was good, and some people liked it because I

552
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: stared at them.

553
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 2: I was like, I think it's all because we can

554
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: see them. But yeah, there Barbie and Ken re named

555
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: after her kids, Barbara and Kenneth. They both hated the dolls. Uh.

556
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: They got a good settlement when they died anyways. Uh.

557
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: And then Ruth Ruth sort of that her sort of

558
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: end of life reflection was that her whole life had

559
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: revolved around titties and that hadn't been intentional. So she's

560
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 2: really cool. I'm glad that they included her in the movie,

561
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: and like referenced her is a corporate propaganda absolutely is,

562
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 2: but she was a cool lady. I was hoping because

563
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 2: one of the things that I understand was probably necessary

564
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 2: for the movie to be made, but I find really

565
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: annoying and poorly handled is the CEO character and the

566
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 2: CEO narrative. I wish that they had instead brought in

567
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: other figures from Barbie history, because there's so many interesting

568
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: people and I want to spotlight one right now. This

569
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 2: next slide is Kittie Black Perkins. She was the lead

570
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: designer of Barbie for twenty five years from the eighties

571
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: into the early two thousands. She's really cool. I feel

572
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: like she's really under discussed. She designed the first black Barbie.

573
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: She was yeah, and she was also the first black

574
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: Barbie designer at all and sort of was a huge

575
00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: advocate for getting more diversity within the Mattal company to

576
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 2: I think I have a next slide of some of

577
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: her most famous creations. Yes, I definitely had that ball

578
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 2: on the right. She also did a really cool series

579
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 2: that I was too young to have encountered, but there.

580
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: It's called The Marvelous World of Shawnee and it was

581
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: the first Barbie collection that was entirely black women of

582
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: different skin tones and hair textures, and it was really

583
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: really cool, and she had this incredible impact on the company.

584
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: And I just wish that instead of a room full

585
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: of men, we had, you know, brought people like Katie

586
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: Black Perkins into the mix, because she is a really

587
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 2: important part of Barbie history and we don't really see

588
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: her or many prominent characters who are not white in

589
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: this movie. And so that's that brings us James Barbie

590
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: history section. Wow. Thank you, Wow. A round of a pause,

591
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: because it's like it's giving hostage situations. All right. I

592
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 2: think if you go to the next slide, I think

593
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: we're back in the dream house. Yeah, here we are.

594
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: Yes, No, but you just touched on something that is

595
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: a big part of the discussion around this movie. So

596
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 1: the movie came out, people watched it, and I don't

597
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: know why I had to people.

598
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: Watch explain that and then and then what happened. But

599
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: then and then and then people had some thoughts about it.

600
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: But did they write them down?

601
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: They did, and then they also said them out loud,

602
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: oh thank you, and a lot of a lot of

603
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: the criticism around this movie was it's feminism, one oh one,

604
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: it's it's white feminism the movie. We need a more

605
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: nuanced and intersectional approach to discussing feminism in media, and

606
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: that is very, very true. I don't disagree with that

607
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: at all, but I have mixed feelings about it because

608
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: the world, most of the people in it, I think,

609
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: still need a lesson, like a feminist one oh one lesson.

610
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: So I don't know.

611
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: I was just like, Okay, pretty cool that a enormous

612
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: blockbuster movie with a huge budget, huge studio backing, about

613
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: a very famous product tackled patriarchy and examined feminism. The

614
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: big problem with it, yes, is that it has like

615
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: sort of the facade of inclusion because of some of

616
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: the characters. But those characters are very much on the

617
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: periphery and it still centers the like epitome of like

618
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: Western beauty, standard whiteness, blonde hair, thinness, like all the stuff,

619
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: and it's peepee poo poos what I'm getting at.

620
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we feel pretty similarly about this. I

621
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 2: feel like it's having to hold a bunch of truths

622
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: at the same time, which, if you're having a discussion online,

623
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 2: is famously not possible. It's like, all of a sudden,

624
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 2: someone's threatening to kill you, you know, but no, no

625
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: one threatened to kill me over the Barbie movie because

626
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: I kept my mouth shutting. Wow, I minded my own business. No,

627
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 2: I think that. Yeah, I agree that. I think that

628
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 2: a lot of the as I was like, going back

629
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: through my knowledge of Barbie history, I feel like a

630
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: lot of the issues with the movie with inclusion are

631
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: the same issues that Barbie has with inclusion. Right where

632
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 2: there has been progress, there have been attempts, there has

633
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: been motion forward, and like the company has to some extent,

634
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 2: taken notes about I think most recently, there was a

635
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: discussion around ableism with Barbie's and there has been discussions

636
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 2: around race with Barbie. There's been discussions around body types

637
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: with Barbie, and it's slowly changed over time, but it

638
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: still always centers the thin, blonde, white woman, and I

639
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: think that that's also what this movie is doing. And

640
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled that we have I think it's like I'm

641
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: thrilled that we have so many amazing barbies, and I'm

642
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: also frustrated that we don't get more of them, you know.

643
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: But in the same way, I think you're totally right.

644
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: The way that people have talked about this movie feels disingenuous,

645
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: in the same way that, like I was saying earlier

646
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: that people were like, this movie's a commercial. I was like, yeah,

647
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: not like Iron Man, which is an indie sleeper hit,

648
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 2: you know, Like just it just feels really disingenuous the

649
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 2: way people have approached the discussion where it's like I

650
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: need to find a righteous reason to hate this, right,

651
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 2: It's like you just don't like it, and that's okay,

652
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: Like not everyone has to. I also feel like the

653
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: reverse argument and a lot of the like we're not

654
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: going to get into the Oscars discourse because this episode

655
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 2: doesn't come out for a month and hopefully it will

656
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: be very dated. But like the way that you know,

657
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 2: like white feminists online will defend the most wealthy white

658
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: woman in the world against her will. You're just like,

659
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: what is this? Yeah, what am I looking at? But

660
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: in any case, I do, I do feel like it's

661
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 2: there are really valid criticisms to be made of this movie.

662
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: And also when we're talking about this movie as like

663
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 2: a blockbuster, which it is, the conversation is really pointedly different,

664
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: Like no one's having conversations like this around any other

665
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: blockbusterory that I can remember, which I think is cool.

666
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 2: It's different, But so there's also a lot of bullshit

667
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: to sift through.

668
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: This is the fourteenth highest grossing movie of all time.

669
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: If you look at the thirteen above it and probably

670
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: the one hundred below it, Like none of those movies

671
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: even acknowledge sexism or patriarchy or any of those things.

672
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: They probably all or most of them have a male protagonist,

673
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: Like they're not. Most of them are directed and written

674
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 1: by men as well. They're not having the same conversation

675
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: this movie is doing. And as we always say, it's

676
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: not any one movie's responsibility to like change the world

677
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: or be the be all end all thing when it

678
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: comes to discussing feminism. But the movie it missed many

679
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: opportunities to be more inclusive, to have more meaningful inclusion,

680
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: because again, you know, there's a Barbie played by a transactor,

681
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: hard enough. There is a fat Barbie played by Sharon Rooney.

682
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: There is a disabled Barbie who uses a wheelchair. She's

683
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: played by Grace Harvey.

684
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: But we don't get to know her at all. She

685
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: has no lines. Really, I think that like we don't

686
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 2: get to really know the Barbies. We get to meet

687
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 2: a lot of them, but outside of Marco, Robbie Barbie

688
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: and Weird Barbie, you don't really get a distinct personality

689
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: for anybody, which is not true of the Kens. And

690
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: that is like my big issue with this movie. And

691
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: I really really like this movie. Like if we're just

692
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: going like Romp, can I watch it? Yes, yes, a

693
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 2: million times?

694
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: Tend out a tent on Caitlin's Rambo either it's the best.

695
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: But yeah, when it comes to like, well, who has

696
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: most of the funny moments and who and which group

697
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 2: has the more distinctive personalities and things to do, it's

698
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 2: the Ken's by a mile. Like I am never not

699
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: going to be frustrated that the Barbies don't get their

700
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,959
Speaker 2: own song, like the Ken's get this, and like I'm

701
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: just ken in my opinion, fucking rips. It's so good

702
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: it does. It was all my Spotify rapped and that's

703
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: so embarrassing, and and was it number one? I don't know,

704
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: but like that was so cool. And they got this

705
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: big studio like old school ballet move they got it,

706
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 2: like all this stuff, and meanwhile, Barbie is crying somewhere

707
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 2: and we're just like this fucking sucks. I read somewhere

708
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: that there was an original Uh there was a Barbie. Uh.

709
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a song because Marco

710
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: Robbie I don't think sings, but there was originally. I

711
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: only saw it written as like there was originally a

712
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 2: fart opera? What what words did you say? I don't

713
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 2: know if it was shot, but I was reading a

714
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: lot of I listened to the director's commentary for this movie,

715
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: Thank you, Yeah I did. I didn't learn very much

716
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: the two things. It was mostly Greta GIRWGG being like, yeah,

717
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 2: so then this happens. I'm like I could just watch

718
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: the movie, but no. Greta Gerwy said there was originally

719
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: a fart opera that she was planning for the Barbies

720
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 2: because they were like Discovery. I don't know if it

721
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: was in the real world or Barbie world, but they

722
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 2: figure out what farts are and then there's a Barbie

723
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: fart opera. Okay, So then I guess that she was

724
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: like and no one thought that was funny, so they

725
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: didn't end up in the movie. I'm like, I don't

726
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 2: know how I feel about that. I guess I would have,

727
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: you know, either way, the Barbies don't get a big number, yeah,

728
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 2: and the kNs do.

729
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say, fart opera, what is this

730
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: a Shrek movie?

731
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 2: Okay?

732
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: There.

733
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 2: The other thing I learned from the Greta Gerwig commentary

734
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: that I really loved was that, you know, like there's

735
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 2: a moment where, uh, usually it's dual lipa Mermaid, but

736
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 2: then suddenly it's John Cena Mermaid. I don't think Greta

737
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 2: Gerwig knows who John Cena is because he comes on

738
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: screen and she goes, oh, John Senna, and she said

739
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: John Senna came in for the day, and that was

740
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 2: so lovely. I had such a great time directing John Senna,

741
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, it has not reached her.

742
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: But I'm just like, yeah, I guess, like in the

743
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 2: Gerwig bomb boc Households. Has anyone ever been like, let's

744
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: turn on WWE, I don't know it missed her? I really,

745
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: oh John Senna, no one ever tell her.

746
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: They haven't watched Fast and the Furious eight and above

747
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: which one did see your peer in for the first time?

748
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: Nine? Oh wow, some people being ready.

749
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: This is kind of you know, never underestimate your audience

750
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: if it's not Hobs and Shaw. I don't care, but yeah, I.

751
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 2: Think like one of my big criticisms of the movie

752
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 2: is that the bar don't get to have as much

753
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: fun as they can see.

754
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and again, like all of the emotional

755
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: labor that Barbie is doing with Ken at the end,

756
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: and there is a point where Barbie is just less

757
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: active as a character in the back half of the movie,

758
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: but Gloria and Sasha sort of take over as the

759
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: more active female characters at.

760
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 2: Least and weird Barbie, I feel like the three of

761
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: them when when which Yeah, I didn't know how to

762
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: feel about that, but I'm like, oh, when I've been

763
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,439
Speaker 2: having a depressive episode and three friends are like, all right,

764
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 2: we're gonna We're gonna make sure that they don't shut

765
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: your power off. You know it is nice. Yeah, but yeah,

766
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: so she's really really active for the for the front

767
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 2: half of the movie, but once she hits that wall,

768
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: not as much, but she comes back at the end,

769
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: she rallies.

770
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: She does come back and at the end of the day,

771
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: it is a movie about like a woman having a

772
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: self discovery.

773
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 2: It's literally it's a she's a woman on the verge

774
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: of a nervous breakdown. Yeah. Wow, And I here's my

775
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: other little thing. Okay, I think we should talk about

776
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: Gloria and Sasha because I think their dynamic is under

777
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 2: explored but also interesting. Sasha specifically, I feel like it's

778
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: very Okay, here's my Stanley Kubrick. I think I'll tell you. Okay,

779
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: I know I have a master's degreen screenwriting.

780
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 3: I would.

781
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: What I would never bring it up. Try me, Okay,

782
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 2: Sasha's story can be boiled down to how I learned

783
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: to stop worrying and love the MATEL Corporation that is

784
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: Stanley kruperg gets okay, yes, because it's I think that

785
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting dynamic between the mother and daughter.

786
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: It's frustratingly only like I think, well done. For about

787
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 2: ten minutes towards the end of the movie where when

788
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 2: Barbie gets depressed, you know, Sasha and Gloria. I just

789
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: want to keep saying America Ferarra, Sasha defends her mother

790
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: when Barbie is like you're useless or whatever the fuck

791
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: she says, and I liked that. I don't really know

792
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: what their conflict is. I feel like it's just sort

793
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: of pulling from like if you've been a teenage femme,

794
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: it's probably a dynamic you've had with your mom, and

795
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 2: so you're just it's just stop. I don't like the

796
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: movie Tantanic. I like naval history. Up. I'm a bar Storian.

797
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: I'm not horny. Stop up. That's kind of their Yeah,

798
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 2: But I really like those moments between them where they're

799
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: like learning to understand each other. She has to admit

800
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: that her mom is cool, and then they go back,

801
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: but they do mostly exist in relation to Barbie as

802
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: like Barbie's assistant. And then America Ferra develops the Weapon

803
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: of mass Destruction, which is her speech.

804
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: And I don't even have the energy to really go

805
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 1: into the speech and how it is like not very good,

806
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 1: but go back and listen to it.

807
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: It's like, here's what I'll say about this fee, I

808
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: feel like the speech is I don't know. I don't

809
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: hate the speech. I was well performed. It was well performed.

810
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: The words, however, I would have rewritten it. I didn't

811
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 2: mind the words. I feel like there was a lot missing,

812
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 2: which like the big thing that for this movie in general,

813
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 2: I feel like it attempts to address patriarchy in certain ways,

814
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: but patriarchy is just like one element of the evils

815
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 2: of the world. Like we see this movie attempt to

816
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: address patriarchy while not addressing either white supremacy or capitalism,

817
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 2: which are the main things that intersect with it. So

818
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 2: I feel like the moments in this movie that feel

819
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: hollow is because those two other things are being very

820
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: pointedly ignored, because if you're addressing white supremacy, then you

821
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 2: can't have mostly white leading characters, and if you address capitalism,

822
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: you can't have the Barbie movie. And so it feels

823
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: weirdly like I I appreciate elements of the like attempt

824
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: to boil patriarchy down to a simple and effective speech,

825
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know, I could take her

826
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 2: leave parts of it. But I also I saw this

827
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,279
Speaker 2: movie in theaters a couple of times, and there was

828
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 2: always someone bawling their eyes out, and so I was like,

829
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going to take that from people like I.

830
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 2: You know, the moms were really in their bag with that.

831
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: My mom was My mom was sobbing. My mom was

832
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 2: sobbing during that, and I was like, Okay, that's enough.

833
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 2: And then you're embarrassing me in the movie. And then

834
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: at the end, I don't think I've told you this.

835
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: And then at the end there's another attempted profound movement moment.

836
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: The speech worked on my mom. The second profound moment,

837
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 2: she was mad. It was at the end when Rhea

838
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 2: Perlman says we mothers stand still, so are we can

839
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 2: stand back and see how my mom was like, I

840
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: would never stand still. I was, It's like, that's true.

841
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 2: I've certainly never seen you stand still, even when I've

842
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 2: specifically requested it. And she's like, I think that's so regressive.

843
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: You should say that on bechdelcast, which I agree with.

844
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: I think that that line genuinely sucks. The speech was

845
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 2: a hit or miss for me. I appreciate that it

846
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 2: resonated for people. Did it need to be published in

847
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: the newspaper? No, that's so goofy and embarrassing. And I

848
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: don't know. So many things that are embarrassing to me

849
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 2: about this movie involved the reaction to it versus like

850
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: what I'm actually watching. I don't know. Yes, I feel like, okay,

851
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,240
Speaker 2: this is super super picky. But the America Freire speech,

852
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: for some reason, I feels like fifteen percent. It goes

853
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 2: like fifteen percent longer than you expect it to, and

854
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: I kind of want her to, like I feel like

855
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 2: there's a good sketch in like her pausing and then

856
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: continuing and being like, you can play one video game,

857
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 2: but you can't play two video games. You can you

858
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: can go to CVS, but you don't have an extra

859
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: care card. Like it's just like because it's like such

860
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: a you get like in that cadence, you can say

861
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 2: fucking whatever, and my mom would be weeping, Like you

862
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: can go to McDonald's, but you can't get a happy

863
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: meal because you're a grown up and no one respects you.

864
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: Wow, it's so true.

865
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 2: It's so true. No, it's not true. You can get

866
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: a happy mind do it?

867
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: No?

868
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:44,760
Speaker 2: Well, anyway, okay, so uh talk about oh hi, hello,

869
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 2: someone's getting parasocial in the friend, you saw, you saw

870
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: an opportunity and you see stick. Yes, I did notice that.

871
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: I think Gloria's name is only spoken one in the

872
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: whole movie, and it's in passing. Yeah, yeah, so the

873
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 1: whole I was like, what is her character's name? Because

874
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 1: I missed it every single time I all, like four

875
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: or five times I've watched this movie.

876
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah it's fair. I mean I feel like that also

877
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: speaks to like how even though Gloria and Sasha are

878
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: prominent characters, you don't actually know that much about them,

879
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: and a lot of what you know about them is

880
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 2: just based on what you understand about parent child dynamics,

881
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 2: Like so much is not actually there. It's just like

882
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: relying on what you may have experienced to like sort

883
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: of fill in the gaps of what might be there.

884
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: I do love her due lingo husband and that's America,

885
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And that's America Prayer's real husband. Yeah, yes, yeah,

886
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 2: his name is whatever, who cares? I did write it down.

887
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: But you would never support a man, So it's just

888
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: dad exactly. Also when he says which has to be

889
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: a reference to God to kick out? Yes, absolutely, Well,

890
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: while we're talking about our favorite jokes, when Will Ferrell

891
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: CEO is like if humans went to barbie Land, or

892
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: if Barbies came into the real world, things would happen

893
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: beyond what your wildest dreams could ever imagine. And then

894
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 1: Jamie Jamie Demetrio, best person alive. I love him so much.

895
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: If he's listening, marry me. Stath LEDs Flats is the

896
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 1: best show ever anyone's seen, it.

897
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 2: Said the single wo Meanwhile, forty percent of this audience

898
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: is seen every Fast and the Furious. Just collecting data.

899
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, Jamie Demetrio hot, He replies to like, oh, what

900
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 1: could we possibly imagine? And he says, a podcast hosted

901
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: by two wise trees.

902
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: Podcast?

903
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: What is the Bechtel Cast podcast? But a podcast hosted

904
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: by two wise trees? If you were a tree, Jamie,

905
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: what tree would you be?

906
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know tree kind.

907
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: I'll tell you all of them.

908
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,919
Speaker 2: Okay, we got willows, we got a oaky, we got

909
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 2: birch palm m hm. Oh you're roun elm whoa apple tree?

910
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: Don't help her anyway? Oky orange. Okay, really quick, while

911
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 2: we're on the subjects of the CEO, because we referenced

912
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 2: this earlier, but I really think like and again, I

913
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: fully understand that this movie was signed off by Mattel,

914
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 2: so of course I'm sure they had a million notes.

915
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 2: I'd be really curious in the future. I just would

916
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 2: love to have more oral histories of studio notes in general,

917
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: because I think a lot of the time the writers

918
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: and directors absorb a lot of criticism becau because it's

919
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 2: their name there. But there's a million shadowy figures that

920
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: influence what ends up there. And I like when anytime

921
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: I've written an episode of TV, like there's been a

922
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 2: whole scene that you're like, weird, what is that? And

923
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: yet I wrote it. You know, it's just like there

924
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: are so many people involved. So I would be curious

925
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 2: how the CEO character evolved because I think that casting

926
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell feels really intentional there, right, because yeh, if

927
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 2: you're doing a CEO as a villain, you don't cast

928
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell. If you cast Will Ferrell, it's because you

929
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 2: want him to seem kind of like, oh, well, he's

930
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 2: not doing the right thing, but he's kind of hapless

931
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 2: and he's kind of like whatever, Like he'll figure out

932
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: a goofball. He's a goofball. And I think that that

933
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 2: is a really pernicious way to frame corporate America.

934
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: Well, so didn't he play basically the same exact character

935
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: in the Lego movie.

936
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:50,439
Speaker 5: Yes?

937
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 2: Yes, in the Greta Gerwick commentary spoiler alert, she did

938
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: say something helpful. Okay, she when he first comes on screen,

939
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: and she says the CEO character, he's not evil. He's

940
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 2: like a really enthusiastic golden retriever. He really believes that

941
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: sparkles lead to female empowerment and he's just gonna stick

942
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 2: with that. And I hate that. I hate that so much.

943
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 2: I think that there is like attempted commentary within there.

944
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: And I am like to give this movie as much

945
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 2: credit like as I can. It says more and jabs

946
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: at more than you would expect it to, where it's

947
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,359
Speaker 2: like they do reference, like we have not had many

948
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 2: female executives really ever, and there are like a number

949
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 2: of jokes to that effect. But also it just sort

950
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 2: of makes the capitalism element feel like goofy and harmless

951
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 2: while we're attacking patriarchy and white supremacy we don't talk

952
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 2: about and so it's just like all I mean, I know,

953
00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 2: and one movie cannot do everything. But because this movie

954
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: is so honed in on patriarchy. The way it treats

955
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: other elements feels kind of dissonant and weird. But it's

956
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: also like, if it didn't treat it that way, would

957
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 2: the movie exist. I don't know, because something something comes.

958
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the.

959
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: Thing about presenting a like anti patriarchy argument in a

960
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: movie packaged in this very like pink, hyper feminine Barbie package.

961
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: I mean it makes it.

962
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: Does it make it very palatable and fun? Yes, But

963
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: again it it just ends up ignoring a lot of

964
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 1: things and creating cognitive dissonance.

965
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 2: But I do like how hyperfeminine, like hyperfeminine aesthetics are

966
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 2: like inherent to this world, and I like, I really

967
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: do like that, and I like, I feel like the

968
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: pictures you see of people who go to see the

969
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: movie reflect that, where it's like permission to be hyper feminine.

970
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 2: And that was like one of the elements of Stereotypical

971
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: Barbie that I really liked, where you're presented stereotypical Barbie

972
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 2: along with all of your assumptions about her, which is

973
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 2: criticisms that have haunted Barbie, some rightful, some were projected

974
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 2: over the course of over half a century, where like

975
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: she is brainless, she's a bimbo. She's not smart, and

976
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 2: like associating hyper femininity with not being smart, and it

977
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 2: seems like stereotypical Barbie has like inferred this about herself

978
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: because she's always like, well, I'm not one of the

979
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: job Barbie's, so they should probably figure it out. And

980
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,919
Speaker 2: she is this hyper feminine Barbie and then over time

981
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 2: she figures out like I am smart, I am capable

982
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 2: of growth. And I really liked that, is like having

983
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 2: a hyper feminine character who is smart and not playing

984
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 2: into the tropes that we're used to seeing, because I

985
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 2: feel like it truly is like there's a lot of

986
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 2: times where you see a woman in pink and you're

987
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 2: trained to think like bimbo, not smart, not going to

988
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 2: contribute very much, and that's silly even though pink's not

989
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: really my color. Wow, could have fooled me. Well.

990
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: I feel like we had a very similar discussion on

991
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: the Legally Blonde episode.

992
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I also had Ellwood's Barbie.

993
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: What that's the thing too, is Barbie just like Lego,

994
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 1: where every property that exists is Lego, and also everything

995
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: in person is also Barbie Barbie.

996
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: I feel like, does a weirder job of it, where

997
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 2: it's like things that you're like, oh, that's awesome, and

998
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 2: then you're like why Rosie o'donald, like why cheese? Recently,

999
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: I think she'll be she'll be at my house. I

1000
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 2: recently got Ida b Wells Barbie, like they make historical

1001
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 2: women barbies too. I have Sally Ryde Barbie. We're adding

1002
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: Ida to the mix, you know, running out of the

1003
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: shelf space. I just have too many. I don't know whatever.

1004
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: I've never heard of John Sanna. Oh my gosh, we've

1005
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,440
Speaker 2: never We have yet to talk about the DJ College situation.

1006
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's in the movie. Is he

1007
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: a ken? No, he's selling the kens? Oh my god.

1008
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 2: Oh guys. I almost backed off because I was like, wait,

1009
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 2: it's DJ College. Another one the guy who's like this,

1010
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: he's in the movie.

1011
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 1: The guy's like these mojo dojo castles off the shelves,

1012
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: you guys, and also a celebrity who famously hates eating pussy.

1013
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 2: They're just like, a, this is all we could ride

1014
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 2: a fucking dissertation on this. Oh my god. I'm like,

1015
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: my I I just had a surge of adrenaline. But

1016
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: I was like I know who DJ coll It is. There. Yeah,

1017
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: they he had a he had a cameo, and I

1018
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: also love that during that Greta Gerwig absolutely does not

1019
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: know who he is because she she was silent through

1020
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 2: that whole scene and then started talking.

1021
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: A few other fun cameos though, Annie Mamelo has a

1022
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: little cameo. We've got Emerald fanel Is Midge. Okay, where

1023
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: are the closest? Burn will come to the Oscars. Also,

1024
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 1: the woman at the bus stop is legendary costume designer

1025
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: and Roth she's designing Cowboy. Yes, she did Midnight Cowboy,

1026
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: Cold Mountain, Mama Mia okay, and then one Oscars for

1027
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,280
Speaker 1: English Patient and Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Bottom?

1028
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 2: Are you right bottom down? Twice?

1029
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: No, but I said the first bottom as though there

1030
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 1: was more to that title, and there isn't.

1031
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 2: You're doing We're doing great, We're doing ground and it's

1032
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 2: the Ludese. I'm telling you Hi again.

1033
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: Barbie's it's future Barbie Caitlin and future Barbie Jamie.

1034
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 2: Wow, we're basically the astronaut barbiees. I know that astronauts

1035
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 2: don't time travel, but I in my mind they kind

1036
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: of basically do.

1037
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, have you ever seen Interstellar. I mean it's kind

1038
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: of like that.

1039
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: Have I ever seen interest on it? Have we ever

1040
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 2: covered it on the show? No? So no, I haven't

1041
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 2: seen it. Uh huh. Anyways, Welcome to the Future. Yeah,

1042
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 2: So this was the point in the show where I

1043
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: just want to share with you that we would do

1044
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: our fun like we did a live game where we

1045
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 2: had Barbies from the Barbie Movie and we would do

1046
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: kind of just a series of immaculately improvised scenarios.

1047
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: Oh, such good improv.

1048
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 2: We brought up some audience members to do it with us,

1049
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 2: and they were just as good at improv as we were,

1050
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 2: and sometimes better because we're pretty mid at it.

1051
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: Wow, can't believe you said that.

1052
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 2: We were also set it on stage. But it was

1053
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 2: a blast. So but you know, obviously that doesn't quite

1054
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 2: translate to audios. So in lieu of that, you the

1055
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: listener listening for free will be deprived of fun and

1056
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 2: subjected to further discourse because, of course, in the live show,

1057
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: you know, time is limited, so we didn't get to

1058
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: quite everything that we wanted to.

1059
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: So, and that's why you should come to the live

1060
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 1: shows when we do have them, because there are segments

1061
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: that we tend to cut out when we release the

1062
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 1: actual episode on our feed because either they just don't

1063
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: translate very well to the audio medium, or we just

1064
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 1: want to give our audience, our attendees to the live

1065
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 1: shows a little special treats. So it's all the more

1066
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: reason to come to our live shows when you can.

1067
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 2: The shows are fun. Yeah, I just wanted to start

1068
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 2: by I know that we had a section in the

1069
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 2: live show where we talked about Ruth Handler and sort

1070
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 2: of the history of Barbie as well as Kitty Black Perkins.

1071
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 2: I just wanted to add a few extra things that

1072
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 2: we didn't have time to talk about in the show,

1073
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: just because I thought it was interesting that also connects

1074
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 2: to the idea of mothers and motherhood within the context

1075
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:03,640
Speaker 2: of this movie. Because I and I know that we're

1076
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 2: like not supposed to do this, so please don't yell

1077
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 2: at me. I bravely read a book, Jamie. How could you?

1078
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 2: I know? But I really, I mean, I genuinely really

1079
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 2: am interested in dull history. I really am. And so

1080
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 2: I got this book from the library. And if you

1081
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 2: are not a subscriber, not a subscriber to the library,

1082
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,640
Speaker 2: but like, how if you have a library card. You're

1083
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 2: able to access free books and movies through your library card.

1084
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 2: So I borrowed the book Barbie and Ruth, The Story

1085
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 2: of the World's most Famous Doll and the Woman who

1086
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: created Her by Robin Gerber, just to sort of bolster

1087
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 2: my knowledge about what the actual story of Barbie is

1088
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 2: because understandably in the movie, and this isn't even a criticism,

1089
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: like the movie is not about the history of Barbie.

1090
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 2: I think the fact that Ruth Handler is even included

1091
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 2: was more than I was expecting, honestly true. But I

1092
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: think that what we didn't get the chance to talk

1093
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 2: about in the live show was how she is presented

1094
01:05:05,120 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 2: as a god figure and also a maternal god figure,

1095
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 2: because she is presented to us like and it's like

1096
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 2: not hidden at all, that like she is basically the

1097
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 2: god to Barbie's Jesus. Sure, and that, as we'll talk

1098
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 2: about in a little bit, like is explicitly stated by

1099
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 2: Greta Gerberg, is like she know bomb Back, knew that

1100
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 2: they were doing it. I think that that's a really

1101
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,640
Speaker 2: weird but like pretty interesting thing to include in your

1102
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 2: Barbie movie. Yeah, but the real life Ruth Handler, what

1103
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 2: I think I think it just sort of speaks to

1104
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 2: how we project, not just I mean the real life

1105
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:47,800
Speaker 2: Ruth Handler was a mother to Barbara aka Barbie. But

1106
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 2: I think that, like we've talked about in a lot

1107
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: of movies, that like it has to do with this

1108
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 2: sort of sis woman divine prophecy where not only will

1109
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 2: you be a mother, but you will mothers are inherently

1110
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 2: good and mothers are you know, inherently good at being

1111
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 2: mothers when that is often not true and also a

1112
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:15,320
Speaker 2: ridiculous expectation because it is not a divine prophecy, you're

1113
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 2: a person. And I think that that is very well

1114
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 2: demonstrated in real life Ruth Handler's life, who had consistently

1115
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: a very very contentious relationship with specifically her daughter, but

1116
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 2: both of her children, and I think you know, by

1117
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 2: many accounts, she was an incredible businesswoman. She had a

1118
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 2: lot of growth throughout her life where she did not

1119
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 2: consider herself to be a feminist and in fact like

1120
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 2: avoided friendships with women for much of her life. And

1121
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 2: it wasn't until her later years, when she was making

1122
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 2: prosthetic breasts for breast cancer survivors, that she really felt

1123
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 2: connected to women and to just even the concept of feminism,

1124
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: and you know, had a period of her life where

1125
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: she was reflecting and like reading feminist theory and being like, wait,

1126
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 2: have men been awful to me most of my life?

1127
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 2: And you know, yes, And to the point where something

1128
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 2: that really made me laugh was that this doesn't exist

1129
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: in the sort of more overarching histories. But when she

1130
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 2: finally when she started her company that was just hers.

1131
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 2: Her husband wasn't you know involved in her company for

1132
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 2: the prosthetic breast was called Ruth ten And so she

1133
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 2: finally got her name in the company my girl boss hero.

1134
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 2: But in any case, she had a very difficult relationship

1135
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: with her children and was not quote unquote the natural

1136
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: mother that we see presented, who is inherently, you know,

1137
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: like just knows exactly what to do. And I just

1138
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: thought that that was worth mentioning, even in the context

1139
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 2: because of how she's presented where and they are willing

1140
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 2: to you know, sort of cop to. Maybe it's not

1141
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: the best phrase, I but like cop to certain like

1142
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,160
Speaker 2: flaws that were public, such as being sentenced to a

1143
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 2: forty five year prison sentence and having had anseectomy, but

1144
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 2: still feel the need to be like, but shit, at

1145
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 2: the end of the day she's a mother, when in

1146
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,800
Speaker 2: fact that was like a part of Freeth Handler's life

1147
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: that was very challenging.

1148
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: Also, and we mentioned this in the live show too,

1149
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 1: but the line where the Ruth Handler character at the

1150
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:32,679
Speaker 1: end of the movie says something like we mothers stand

1151
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: still so our daughters can see how far they've come

1152
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: or whatever the line is, and how it just rubbed

1153
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: a lot of people the wrong way.

1154
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like that again, it just like applies

1155
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 2: this prescriptive role of like deference and yeah, humbleness.

1156
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:56,880
Speaker 1: And becoming a mother means that you surrender other parts

1157
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 1: of your life.

1158
01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:58,760
Speaker 2: And stuff like that.

1159
01:08:59,080 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1160
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: The other the thing that I found interesting about Ruth

1161
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 1: Handler's like journey with feminism is that, from my understanding,

1162
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 1: she created Barbie, or she at least viewed Barbie as

1163
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:15,440
Speaker 1: an alternative to baby dolls, something that was like aspirational,

1164
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 1: something that would help girls or whoever was playing with them.

1165
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: And that's a separate issue I have with this movie

1166
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: where it feels it's very much like, well, the only

1167
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 1: people who play with dolls are girls. But anyway, that's

1168
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: a I'll get to that later. But anyway, she viewed

1169
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: Barbie dolls as an aspirational way to help girls envision

1170
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 1: their lives outside of being a mother, which, of course,

1171
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, that was the expectation that was foisted onto

1172
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: women at the time Barbie was created, and Barbie dolls

1173
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: were an opportunity to allow girls to see that they

1174
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: could grow up and have a career and they didn't

1175
01:09:55,880 --> 01:10:01,560
Speaker 1: necessarily have to adhere to that kind of rigid societal expectation,

1176
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: which was a pretty radical idea at that time, right,

1177
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 1: So I appreciate that about Barbie dolls and about like

1178
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,639
Speaker 1: Ruth Handler's vision for them.

1179
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 2: I did too, and I feel like, you know, the

1180
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 2: way that I even though like when I was a kid,

1181
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,960
Speaker 2: I forget if I mentioned it in this, but but yeah,

1182
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 2: that I had like a moment where, you know, I

1183
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 2: loved playing with Barbies and then felt self conscious about

1184
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 2: enjoying it, and then realized that it is in fact

1185
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 2: quite stressful to have an aspirational doll, even though you

1186
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 2: are projecting your hopes and desires through them in a

1187
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 2: way that feels very fun and dynamic and cool in

1188
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 2: the way that just being a kid is. The body

1189
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:48,200
Speaker 2: stuff does get to you over time, and certainly I

1190
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 2: wrote a strongly worded letter to Mattel being like, listen up, boys,

1191
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 2: my boobs are not going to come in, I've recently realized,

1192
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 2: and like, but just truly like the very you know,

1193
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 2: entrenched white Western beauty standards that Barbie's been rightfully criticized

1194
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 2: over a period of years. We talked about this during

1195
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 2: the show, but that I didn't really understand, and I

1196
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 2: think that that is sort of a testament to the

1197
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 2: power of Barbie two, that I didn't really know as

1198
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 2: a kid that dolls were not aspirational, and like, I

1199
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: never had any interest in baby dolls, and so I think,

1200
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 2: like it's almost this like cool, frustrating, but new problem

1201
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 2: to deconstruct, Well, what does the aspirational doll say about

1202
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:38,080
Speaker 2: what I should be aspiring to? But the fact that

1203
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 2: that didn't exist, that problem didn't exist before because you

1204
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 2: were not supposed to aspire to anything, and like, wow, right,

1205
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: I also just wanted to touch on really quick because

1206
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 2: it's Ken history. Yes, Ruth Handler's the Handlers. Elliot and

1207
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 2: Ruth had two children, Barbara and Kenneth, Barbie and Ken

1208
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 2: and Ken. I feel like he is not I mean

1209
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 2: just says in the world of the Barbie movie under discussed,

1210
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 2: under examined in real life as well. Ken Handler seemed

1211
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 2: like a truly wonderful person who so who eventually unfortunately

1212
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 2: he passed away of AIDS fairly young. I think it

1213
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 2: was in his forties, in the late eighties, early nineties,

1214
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 2: And so there is sort of this whole. I mean,

1215
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:33,639
Speaker 2: both children, Barbara and Kenneth different than the dolls, I think,

1216
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:37,440
Speaker 2: appreciated what their parents were trying to do, but resented

1217
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 2: how it sort of haunted them right where Ken was

1218
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 2: teased at school for being like, do you just have

1219
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 2: a lump? You know, goofy shit like that, But if

1220
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 2: you're a kid, that's humiliating and it feels horrible. And Barbara, interestingly,

1221
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 2: her issue with her mom that she reflected on later

1222
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 2: was that she resented her mom for having a career

1223
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 2: because it meant like, quote unquote, her mom was different,

1224
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 2: which of course is entrenched in privilege the reasons that

1225
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 2: that is. But it was interesting just sort of reading

1226
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 2: how she reflected on that later on, where she was like,

1227
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 2: I resented my mom because I didn't really understand how

1228
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 2: radical it was that she was working, Like I didn't

1229
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,679
Speaker 2: see any moms that were working and so I assumed

1230
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: she was the problem when that wasn't the case. Oh.

1231
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:31,360
Speaker 2: She also said of her brother Ken, and I think

1232
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 2: this was prior to his death, so it was just

1233
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: like good natured ripping. But she said, my brother is

1234
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 2: eccentric and he thinks my mother is God. And I

1235
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,680
Speaker 2: was like, I want a son like that.

1236
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: But in any case, I feel like you do have

1237
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 1: two cat sons like that.

1238
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,719
Speaker 2: I do. They're both eccentric and they think I'm God.

1239
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,840
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to challenge that characteristic. But yeah,

1240
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: Ken was. I mean, he was a young gay man

1241
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: in the sixties and so it was not socially acceptable

1242
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 2: for him to be out. He was married to a

1243
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 2: woman for most of his life. He had some show

1244
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 2: business aspirations that so because he you know, like the

1245
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 2: kids they all grew up in LA they're kind of

1246
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 2: like Hollywood babies. And Ken went on to direct two movies,

1247
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 2: one of which I've seen called Delivery Boys about.

1248
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 1: Hey, and this is coming sounds like me in my

1249
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: hooter's career.

1250
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 2: It is a very like dancy, somewhat home eerotic movie.

1251
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:43,759
Speaker 2: I quite enjoyed it. The plot is all over the place,

1252
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 2: like you're like, I think they are just like dancing

1253
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:49,759
Speaker 2: and delivery. But it's a nineteen eighty four film directed

1254
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 2: by Ken Handler about a multi ethnic group of pizza

1255
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 2: delivery boys who started a break dancing team. And having

1256
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:58,240
Speaker 2: seen the movie, I can tell you that's exactly what

1257
01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 2: it's about and nothing else. But he you know, he

1258
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,799
Speaker 2: is most famously known as the namesake of the Kendall

1259
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: but he also was a very creative person and had

1260
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 2: a lot of output of his own. So in any case,

1261
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,799
Speaker 2: he did not come out to his family, I believe

1262
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 2: his mother, father, and sister until he had already tested

1263
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,640
Speaker 2: positive for HIV, to the extent that he and his

1264
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 2: wife was already aware at this point, And so Ken

1265
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 2: and his wife Susie, and a doctor went to the

1266
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 2: home to explain not only what his diagnosis was, but

1267
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 2: what it was at all, because of how naive and

1268
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 2: how I mean, I think it really just speaks to

1269
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 2: how under educated the general public was about about issues

1270
01:15:51,080 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 2: surrounding HIV and AIDS. And so he passed away in

1271
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:59,519
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four. He was only fifty years old, and

1272
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 2: at the time his parents announced that he had died

1273
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 2: of a brain tumor. And so I mean, I cannot

1274
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,920
Speaker 2: say with any level of certainty what the intention behind

1275
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 2: that was, whether it was a denial that they had

1276
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,280
Speaker 2: a queer son, or if they thought they were, you know,

1277
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:23,120
Speaker 2: in this very antiquated way, thought they were acting in

1278
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 2: his best interest. I don't know. They didn't speak about

1279
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 2: it extensively, but I just feel like there Ken had

1280
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 2: a really tragically short but really interesting life, and within

1281
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 2: the queer community, was really well loved and had a

1282
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 2: lot of friends and a lot of creative pursuits and

1283
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,000
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And he didn't like Ken Dolls, and Barbie, well,

1284
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 2: she didn't like Barbie Dolls. And so I guess if

1285
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 2: you invent something, don't name it after your kids, they

1286
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: will hate you. But that's the additional context they wanted

1287
01:16:59,080 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 2: to share.

1288
01:17:00,520 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 1: Thank you for that, And I guess the other things

1289
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: that I had about the movie that we didn't have

1290
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 1: time for in the live shows, a lot of them

1291
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 1: were things that I found frustrating about the movie. A

1292
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:24,679
Speaker 1: few specific things are A pretty big component of Barbie's character,

1293
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: in addition to the fact that she's crying for most

1294
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 1: of the second half of the movie, is that she

1295
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 1: has a strong fixation on her own appearance and of

1296
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:41,000
Speaker 1: course Barbie is a product of her environment, so it

1297
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: makes sense that she's hyper focused on her image because

1298
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 1: so much of the Barbie brand and lore is about

1299
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: what she looks like, how she's designed, that she's quote

1300
01:17:58,280 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: unquote perfect, all of that kind of stuff. But this

1301
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 1: manifests in the movie in a way that I feel

1302
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 1: like is not really thoughtfully commented on. There is that

1303
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 1: moment where Sasha is saying, like, you made girls feel

1304
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: horrible about themselves, and you're a fascist, But.

1305
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:21,759
Speaker 2: It's kind of like she's presented as ultimately being wrong

1306
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 2: because and I think it's also like I get it's

1307
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 2: it's tricky because I feel tempted to defend the movie

1308
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 2: where it's like, well, you know, it's like part of it,

1309
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 2: but like couching it in jokes sometimes is really tricky

1310
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:39,639
Speaker 2: because it's like, in one situation there something is if

1311
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 2: not a thousand percent true, worth discussing, and then the

1312
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:47,960
Speaker 2: other thing, that Barbie is a fascist is objectively not true,

1313
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 2: and so it's all sort of cast in this same

1314
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 2: sort of like, well, none of this is true, and

1315
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 2: you're like, well, let's get back to the body image thing,

1316
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: because I think there is some truth to what Sasha

1317
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 2: is saying that a lot of the criticisms of Barbie

1318
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 2: have come up over the years are sometimes coming from

1319
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: a place of just like how dare a woman exist?

1320
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 2: And then there also is genuinely, as we talked about

1321
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,840
Speaker 2: in the live show, a history of because this is

1322
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:20,559
Speaker 2: quote unquote the aspirational doll. You're being handed this white, thin, blonde,

1323
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:24,960
Speaker 2: large breasted, anatomically impossible doll and told this is what

1324
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 2: you should be aspiring to. So that's a far more

1325
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 2: complicated thing to deal with, and I mean, yeah, right.

1326
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 1: And then again, the way this all plays out in

1327
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:39,040
Speaker 1: the movie for Barbie's character is that, like, the thing

1328
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:42,640
Speaker 1: that finally motivates Barbie to be willing to take this

1329
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 1: journey into the real world and fix this rift that's

1330
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 1: been created is weird Barbie saying like, if you don't

1331
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 1: do this, you're going to keep getting more cellulate, And

1332
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: Barbie's like, oh my god, that's the worst imaginable thing.

1333
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: I could never have that. So that's what motivates her

1334
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 1: to go on the quest. Toward the end of the movie,

1335
01:20:04,240 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: after you know, Ken has taken over and ruined barbie Land. Yeah,

1336
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: one of the big things that Barbie is upset about

1337
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: is that she's not pretty anymore and that she's worried

1338
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 1: that Ken doesn't like her anymore. She also says things

1339
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,880
Speaker 1: like I don't think I'm smart or interesting, But because

1340
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: she's already been so focused on her appearance, it feels

1341
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:30,480
Speaker 1: like that's kind of the bigger takeaway from that moment.

1342
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 2: And also the added in like Margaret Robbie is the

1343
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 2: wrong person if you want to like blah blah blah,

1344
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 2: which is a very funny joke, but yeah, I think that, Yeah,

1345
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:43,760
Speaker 2: it's like something that I like, we were talking about, Like,

1346
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 2: I think that this does, in a really kind of

1347
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:52,280
Speaker 2: pernicious way, tie into this movie's fundamental inability to talk

1348
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 2: about capitalism in a meaningful way because you can't talk

1349
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 2: too much about the body stuff without being overly of Barbie,

1350
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 2: who is bankrolling the movie. And I felt frustrated by

1351
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 2: the cellulate joke. Again, it just felt like kind of

1352
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:11,439
Speaker 2: dated too, because it's not like there are not you know,

1353
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:14,960
Speaker 2: we have a fat Barbie. We have at least some body.

1354
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 2: Diversity within the Barbie is not, you know, arguably not enough,

1355
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 2: but there it does exist. And I was like, Okay,

1356
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 2: I guess if you're like five D chessing it like, no,

1357
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 2: Barbie has cellulite because they're all hard plastic. But you know,

1358
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 2: the inherent message in there, it still felt like, yeah,

1359
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,440
Speaker 2: it was still pretty focused on looks.

1360
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 1: Well because this whole thing, like it kind of just

1361
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 1: boils down to yes, stereotypical. Barbie is known for being this,

1362
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, like ideal beauty standard. So it makes sense

1363
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 1: that she would value that about herself, because when a

1364
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:54,240
Speaker 1: certain trait is valued by society, you tend to value

1365
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: that about yourself or your condition to value that about yourself. However,

1366
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 1: I feel like there was a big opportunity for Barbie

1367
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 1: to learn that that's not a trait that she should

1368
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,639
Speaker 1: place so much emphasis on, or that she, you know,

1369
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:15,639
Speaker 1: should be expected to be valued by others about herself

1370
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 1: based only on her appearance, and that she, you know,

1371
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:23,759
Speaker 1: should discover other qualities about herself. But the movie doesn't

1372
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 1: fully get there. You know, there's a little bit at

1373
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: the end when she is talking to the Ruth Handler

1374
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: character about becoming human and wanting to be someone who

1375
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:37,080
Speaker 1: makes and creates ideas and contributes to society, but that

1376
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: doesn't really feel super earned to me because everything we've

1377
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 1: just saying learned about her thus far, A lot of

1378
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:46,479
Speaker 1: what we learned about her thus far is like her

1379
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:51,639
Speaker 1: placing so much emphasis on her appearance and like being

1380
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 1: very fixated on that. And I feel like if that

1381
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,760
Speaker 1: arc had just been more like thoroughly explored, I feel

1382
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 1: like I could have easily gotten there. But I don't know,

1383
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:02,280
Speaker 1: it just it didn't quite work for me.

1384
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 2: I agree, but like to a slightly turned down extent,

1385
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,880
Speaker 2: I guess I think that the body issue is unexplored

1386
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 2: in a way that I don't know, like it was disappointing.

1387
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 2: And also because it is the Barbie movie, I was

1388
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 2: not surprised that those kind of flaws were present because

1389
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:27,439
Speaker 2: this I don't think that this movie is handled to

1390
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 2: truly meaningfully critique the product of Barbie, and because so

1391
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 2: much of the critique around Barbie surrounds body issues, I

1392
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 2: wasn't surprised that this movie doesn't crack that wide open,

1393
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 2: because it's not a movie by its very existence that

1394
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 2: would be able to But I don't know. I mean,

1395
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 2: there's been so much talk about, like, well, what if

1396
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 2: there's a Barbie two. First of all, just let the

1397
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 2: movie be the movie. And also I think that, like,

1398
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 2: were there a Barbi two, I would hope that, like,

1399
01:23:58,240 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 2: if the focus on the first Barbie movie is on

1400
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 2: tackling these stereotypes associated with Barbie, then it's like, and

1401
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 2: let's move on, and let's focus on the Barbies that,

1402
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 2: like we were talking about during the live show, are

1403
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 2: present but not story present and deserve actual storylines. And

1404
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 2: so I guess that that is what my hope would be.

1405
01:24:24,720 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 2: I guess I wasn't super put off by it because

1406
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 2: I didn't really expect more from the Barbie movie in

1407
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:34,360
Speaker 2: that regard, but like, I guess that transitions a little

1408
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:37,000
Speaker 2: bit into something that I was thinking. I mean, because

1409
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,360
Speaker 2: I think that by the nature of our jobs, we

1410
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:42,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I was even when I was seeing this

1411
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 2: movie for fun, I was thinking about it from a

1412
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:48,120
Speaker 2: Bechdel cast lens, because what the movie is talking about

1413
01:24:48,320 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 2: makes it kind of hard to not, you know, put

1414
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 2: it on. Some movies are so just like Smooth Brain

1415
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 2: that you're like, I'm just having fun. But like, it

1416
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 2: was hard to not immediately, you know, because the movie

1417
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 2: is trying to to interrogate however overly essentialist as we're

1418
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 2: going to talk about and mentioned it in the live show,

1419
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:11,440
Speaker 2: but interrogate binary gender stereotypes as they pertain to Barbie.

1420
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 2: I think that I got so honed in on that,

1421
01:25:15,560 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 2: which is not a fault on my part. I mean,

1422
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,160
Speaker 2: the movie's asking you to do that, but I wasn't

1423
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 2: thinking about alternate readings of the movie, and so I

1424
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 2: wanted to just mention two that did not occur to me,

1425
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 2: but I thought we're interesting to read more about. One

1426
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 2: of them was the Ruth Handler is God Barbie's Jesus,

1427
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 2: where Greta Gerwig has said at a number of points

1428
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 2: in the press tour for this movie, yeah, that she

1429
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:48,440
Speaker 2: basically compares this to a reverse Adam and Eve situation.

1430
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 2: She says in a Vogue interview from last May quote,

1431
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 2: Barbie was invented first, Ken was invented after Barbie to

1432
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:58,799
Speaker 2: burnish Barbie's position in our eyes and in the world.

1433
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 2: That kind of created myth is the opposite of the

1434
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,400
Speaker 2: creation myth in Genesis, and so I feel like it

1435
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 2: kind of with that weird kind of biblical lens, some

1436
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,400
Speaker 2: of the creative choices make a little more sense to me,

1437
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 2: but don't necessarily work like I feel like it's if

1438
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 2: you're having to have these two things be true at

1439
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:21,639
Speaker 2: the same time it's and be a corporate movie. It's

1440
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,559
Speaker 2: basically impossible. But there were some choices that I didn't

1441
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 2: like from a gendered perspective, Like we talked about during

1442
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 2: the episode, the end scene with Barbie and Ken, where

1443
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 2: she apologized to him, he doesn't apologize to her. I

1444
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 2: think that, like, once I read the biblical interpretation of it,

1445
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,120
Speaker 2: that scene made more sense to me. But from the

1446
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:46,400
Speaker 2: gendered place, which is how it's basically presented to us,

1447
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,000
Speaker 2: it didn't work for me as much so, but I

1448
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:52,719
Speaker 2: did think it was interesting that that read is very

1449
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,440
Speaker 2: valid and at least somewhat intentional.

1450
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 1: Sure, either way, I'm still going to be frustrated by

1451
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 1: all of that emotional labor that Barbie is doing, all

1452
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: of the apologizing that she's doing and receiving none in return.

1453
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, all I was saying was that that read works

1454
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 2: for the biblical thing, but it's also like, that's a

1455
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:17,000
Speaker 2: biblical thing. Do I want to give that read deference?

1456
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:22,160
Speaker 2: Not really the other reading I wanted to reference because

1457
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 2: I saw it a couple of times. There's a number

1458
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 2: of pieces written about it, just about Barbie, and when

1459
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 2: I say Barbie, I mean, Margo Robbie Barbie as an

1460
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 2: asexual icon. Of course, she is not openly ace within

1461
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 2: the movie, but either been a number of I think

1462
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,760
Speaker 2: really well written and thought out pieces that argue that

1463
01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 2: she is ace coded, including interviews that Marco Robbie has given.

1464
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:55,519
Speaker 2: In that same Vogue press tour, Robbie was asked, she's

1465
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:59,799
Speaker 2: my friend. Mago was asked if the character of Barbie

1466
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:04,479
Speaker 2: had sexual desire, and margat Robbie said no, I don't

1467
01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:07,760
Speaker 2: think she could. She is sexualized, but I never thought

1468
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 2: she should be sexy. People project sex onto her. Yes,

1469
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,559
Speaker 2: she could wear a short skirt, but because it's fun

1470
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 2: and pink, not because she wanted you to see her butt.

1471
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:19,799
Speaker 2: So this is I'm pulling this argument from a salon

1472
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:24,839
Speaker 2: piece by Kelly Pow that came out last summer aka

1473
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 2: The Season of Barbie think Pieces, But Kelly Powell essentially

1474
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 2: makes the argument that while it is not a stated

1475
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:39,839
Speaker 2: choice with the character that Barbie's interests like, she openly

1476
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 2: has no desire for a relationship. But basically what this

1477
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 2: piece is describing that I feel like is often lost

1478
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 2: in the discourse around as characters and ace people, of

1479
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 2: which there are already so few in terms of characters.

1480
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 2: Is that being a sexual does not preclude you from

1481
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 2: rape culture, and that Barbie's character in this movie is

1482
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 2: an interesting example of that that while she does not

1483
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 2: desire a sexual relationship, she is still constantly piled on

1484
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 2: by the rape culture that exists, by how people perceive her.

1485
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 2: So I thought that was another, you know, interesting of

1486
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 2: the thing, because it just felt like, I mean, the

1487
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:30,240
Speaker 2: discourse around this movie was just so much that it

1488
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,439
Speaker 2: wasn't even as if these two reads were like not

1489
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 2: able to be found, but there was just so much

1490
01:29:36,479 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 2: that I just wanted to say, hey, check this out.

1491
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:40,880
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting.

1492
01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:44,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that read, And I appreciate about this

1493
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: movie that she doesn't end up with Ken and that

1494
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 1: this romantic relationship isn't foisted on her when she clearly

1495
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:58,599
Speaker 1: is not interested in it. And after all that Ken

1496
01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:02,720
Speaker 1: had done to ruined Barbieland so I thought that was

1497
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:06,559
Speaker 1: a really interesting and brave choice.

1498
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, just like something you never see in blockbusters

1499
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:14,120
Speaker 2: is I think even in Blockbusters, if you have a

1500
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 2: lead character who's a woman or a fem that, even

1501
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 2: if they are very self motivated, they're movie the plot

1502
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:24,840
Speaker 2: alogue like, it's they're a great character. There still is

1503
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 2: generally like and here's their partner. And and again, obviously

1504
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:30,920
Speaker 2: we've talked about it on the show a million times,

1505
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:34,720
Speaker 2: not that that is lessening desire, but but it's just

1506
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 2: very rare to see a protagonist who it's just like,

1507
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: here's a hyper feminine protagonist, and we're not going to

1508
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:44,559
Speaker 2: force her to end up with someone like. I can't

1509
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 2: think of a popular example of that. That isn't a

1510
01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:51,720
Speaker 2: child like that isn't like a movie for children.

1511
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:57,280
Speaker 1: It's it's very rare, and especially when the like the

1512
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:01,559
Speaker 1: source material is bar B plus ken like, you would

1513
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 1: expect that to be how the movie ends up. But

1514
01:31:05,320 --> 01:31:09,719
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that that wasn't the case. Agree, although

1515
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 1: there is something at the end that I did find

1516
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 1: very frustrating. We touched on this in the live show,

1517
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 1: but I think it deserves more attention, which is that

1518
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: when Barbie decides to return to the real world and

1519
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 1: become human, the first thing that we see her do

1520
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:35,600
Speaker 1: is go to a gynecologist, and it's implied that she

1521
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,960
Speaker 1: has grown a vagina question mark.

1522
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 2: The implications are quite scary.

1523
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:45,519
Speaker 1: They're scary, it's a very gender sensualist thing to imply

1524
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,479
Speaker 1: that because she apparently has a vagina, now that's how

1525
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,679
Speaker 1: you become a quote unquote real woman.

1526
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:56,920
Speaker 2: I was talking about this bravely with my boyfriend, not woo,

1527
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 2: but I was talking about because that was a that

1528
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 2: from view one I've always felt yucky about and because

1529
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,639
Speaker 2: and I don't think it comes from a hateful place.

1530
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 2: I just think it comes from a thoughtless place and

1531
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 2: that I was like, well what is because I like,

1532
01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 2: I've never not seen that, because it is also kind

1533
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,160
Speaker 2: of like a tongue in cheek kind of thing. But

1534
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, there's other ways to make this joke without

1535
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 2: it having to be gender essentialist. I was like, can

1536
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:31,080
Speaker 2: we have her go buy some mace? Like can we Like,

1537
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:33,840
Speaker 2: there's a lot of different ways to be like I

1538
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 2: am joining the struggle of human women and femmes today

1539
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:43,960
Speaker 2: and I am buying mace and a knife to attach

1540
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,919
Speaker 2: to my keys or whatever it is, without it becoming

1541
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:50,799
Speaker 2: this creepy like you're saying like essential ast bio freaky,

1542
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 2: Like it's just a dark road to go down. Don't

1543
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,479
Speaker 2: ever go down it. There's ways to make the point.

1544
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:00,479
Speaker 2: I think that they're trying to make without doing that.

1545
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:03,200
Speaker 1: My pitch was like, why can't we just see her

1546
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:07,560
Speaker 1: like enrolling in a class.

1547
01:33:07,439 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 2: Or something like. I like that, Like at the end,

1548
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:15,200
Speaker 2: she's like excited to do something that people dread. Like that,

1549
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 2: it's like no one's smiling to go see their guynecologists,

1550
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:23,880
Speaker 2: but like no one's smiling when they're doing millions of

1551
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,759
Speaker 2: things associated with being a femin in the world, you know, right.

1552
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: So, Greta Gerwig, I pulled a quote from her about this.

1553
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 1: She says, quote, I knew I wanted to end on

1554
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 1: a mic drop kind of joke, but I also find

1555
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 1: it very emotional. When I was a teenage girl, I

1556
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 1: remember growing up and being embarrassed about my body and

1557
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:49,519
Speaker 1: just feeling ashamed in a way that I couldn't even describe.

1558
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:51,559
Speaker 1: I felt like everything had to be hidden.

1559
01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 2: And then to see.

1560
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: Margot as Barbie with this big old smile on her

1561
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: face saying what she says at the end, with such

1562
01:33:59,439 --> 01:34:02,320
Speaker 1: happiness and enjoy I was like, if I can give

1563
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:06,519
Speaker 1: girls that feeling of Barbie does it too. That's both

1564
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:12,879
Speaker 1: funny and emotional. Unquote, which fair I get, especially because

1565
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 1: women and fems are encouraged to feel ashamed about their body.

1566
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:22,519
Speaker 1: But it just feels like, like you said, it wasn't

1567
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 1: carefully sought out and the implications of a joke like

1568
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 1: that were kind of ignored.

1569
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:32,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, stuff like that. I agree, Yeah, I think

1570
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 2: it's under that. And know it's also interesting to hear

1571
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,960
Speaker 2: her sort of internal logic. It makes sense that it

1572
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:40,920
Speaker 2: comes from a personal place. But again I think that

1573
01:34:40,920 --> 01:34:44,759
Speaker 2: that's just that's almost like something that we rarely encounter

1574
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 2: in this exact context. But like that feels like the

1575
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:54,559
Speaker 2: oh tour risk that like people in those positions just

1576
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 2: need to be really mindful about. Is that, like, if

1577
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:02,479
Speaker 2: you're projecting your experience as the experience, you're gonna come

1578
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:07,680
Speaker 2: up against issues like this that are intentional or not exclusionary.

1579
01:35:08,120 --> 01:35:12,880
Speaker 2: And in this you know, in this case centering SIS

1580
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,439
Speaker 2: women right, And also I can acknowledge that you know,

1581
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 2: SIS women, I mean, anyone could laugh at that joke

1582
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:22,280
Speaker 2: and that a lot of SIS women felt seen by it.

1583
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 2: But I just feel like, as the button of a

1584
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:29,599
Speaker 2: movie that I really enjoyed, I was bummed out by it.

1585
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:31,439
Speaker 2: There are so many because I mean, there's just so

1586
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 2: many ways to make that point without centering that there's

1587
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,759
Speaker 2: so many ways in which femmes are encouraged to feel

1588
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 2: shame and discomfort. You really have a chrkey to rey Board.

1589
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 1: So truly. Yes, a few other things that I found

1590
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: frustrating about the movie. This is just going to be

1591
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 1: a quicker list, But one is the joke that compares

1592
01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 1: what's happening in barbie Land with like Ken taking over,

1593
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:04,720
Speaker 1: comparing that who colonizers committing genocide against indigenous people in

1594
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:06,560
Speaker 1: the New World in the fifteen hundreds.

1595
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially in a movie that makes no attempt to

1596
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,920
Speaker 2: comment on Indigenous people in any other way except in

1597
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:19,200
Speaker 2: this one joke, and it Yeah, do not like no

1598
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:20,479
Speaker 2: another one.

1599
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: And I hinted at this a little bit ago, but

1600
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 1: the suggestion that the only people who play with dolls

1601
01:36:26,320 --> 01:36:29,959
Speaker 1: are girls. This is the case in the opening sequence

1602
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,280
Speaker 1: with the little girls playing with the baby dolls, and

1603
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 1: then later when weird Barbie is explaining to stereotypical Barbie

1604
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 1: that there's usually a disconnect between the Barbie and the

1605
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,200
Speaker 1: girl who is playing with her, ignoring the fact that

1606
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 1: boys and children of all genders play with dolls.

1607
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,960
Speaker 2: Which again, it felt very preventable. Like it, you don't

1608
01:36:53,160 --> 01:36:56,600
Speaker 2: change the meaning of that statement by saying, like the

1609
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 2: kid like.

1610
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, the language could have been altered to to just

1611
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:03,439
Speaker 1: make it more gender inclusive, and it just didn't do it.

1612
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 1: Speaking of Weird Barbie, I say justice for her. I

1613
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:09,240
Speaker 1: think she deserves more of an apology.

1614
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 2: I think weird Barbie could should have stolen someone's house.

1615
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:16,919
Speaker 2: I was like, weird Barbie should have done some damage.

1616
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 2: I feel like if I was Weird Barbie, I would

1617
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:22,800
Speaker 2: be filling such rage in a way that I would

1618
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:24,479
Speaker 2: have been more interested. I would have been way more

1619
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:28,559
Speaker 2: interested in Weird Barbie exerting her rage onto the other

1620
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:31,880
Speaker 2: barbiees versus the Kens on the Barbies, because Weird Barbie,

1621
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:37,519
Speaker 2: unlike the Kens, has genuinely been wronged, right. She is

1622
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:42,160
Speaker 2: like Jennifer Hudson cat in Cats as I think I

1623
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:44,599
Speaker 2: loudly said to you in movie theater, But it's true.

1624
01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:48,960
Speaker 2: She is. She is like memory, Like where's her memory?

1625
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 2: All alone in the moonlight? Like they said, like hard

1626
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 2: enough Barbie says, she used to be the most beautiful Barbie,

1627
01:37:55,439 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 2: but then she got old and weird, and now she's

1628
01:37:59,320 --> 01:38:02,759
Speaker 2: been sent off to the island of misfit grinch Barbies.

1629
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,000
Speaker 2: And it's like that's literally Jennifer Hudson Cat, Yeah, tell

1630
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:09,680
Speaker 2: me that's not her. What was the name, Grizabella, Grizabella

1631
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:12,120
Speaker 2: the glamour Cat. And then they gave her the gift

1632
01:38:12,160 --> 01:38:13,960
Speaker 2: of death at the end. They should have done that.

1633
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 2: They should have sent Weird Barbie up in the balloon

1634
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:19,040
Speaker 2: and just given her the sweet embrace of death if

1635
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:21,360
Speaker 2: that's what she wanted. Either way, we do know that

1636
01:38:21,400 --> 01:38:24,280
Speaker 2: she knows what death is and I will never get

1637
01:38:24,280 --> 01:38:25,920
Speaker 2: over that. But yeah, I think that like they were

1638
01:38:26,040 --> 01:38:28,639
Speaker 2: just the fact that I mean, and I liked Kate

1639
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:31,880
Speaker 2: McKinnon's performance. I think the anesthetic is cool, Like the

1640
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:36,599
Speaker 2: joke of weird Barbie is awesome, but it just felt

1641
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 2: like that character is like it's such a strong setup

1642
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:41,879
Speaker 2: for a character and such a perfect piece of casting

1643
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 2: that it's like, let her fuck around. She's mostly just like,

1644
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:50,000
Speaker 2: it's all good that you've treated me horrifically, and I'm

1645
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 2: Jennifer Hudson Cat, You're like, it's actually famously not all good.

1646
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:56,640
Speaker 1: It's not okay, and yeah, and then she's doing a

1647
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:00,120
Speaker 1: bunch of the labor to like save Barbie land on

1648
01:39:00,280 --> 01:39:01,439
Speaker 1: brainwash the Barbie.

1649
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:04,439
Speaker 6: So it's like like Marco Robbie, Barbie keeps calling her ugly,

1650
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,280
Speaker 6: and I'm like, it feels very like Liz lemon coated,

1651
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:10,120
Speaker 6: where you're like, I mean, the cost of it makes

1652
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 6: her look not you know, but but it's like you're

1653
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:15,200
Speaker 6: still looking at ka kit and be serious, you know.

1654
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:18,760
Speaker 1: Right, I mean it goes back to the stereotypical Barbie's

1655
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 1: kind of obsession with image that like, I just wish

1656
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:24,559
Speaker 1: I'd been handled differently in the movie anyway.

1657
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:28,919
Speaker 2: And yeah, and I guess like with her obsession with image,

1658
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 2: I think it makes sense that it's there, but it's

1659
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:36,639
Speaker 2: just not handled period kind of. It's just it just is.

1660
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 2: It's like the Blockbuster. What happens in every Blockbuster where

1661
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,960
Speaker 2: they're like, we're not doing the thing, but like to

1662
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,360
Speaker 2: some extent your always doing the thing.

1663
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 1: The thing this is real quick. But I would also

1664
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 1: say justice for Midge. I know, there's like the voiceover

1665
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:56,600
Speaker 1: that says, like, oh, let's not show Midge because a

1666
01:39:56,760 --> 01:40:01,479
Speaker 1: pregnant or I'm sorry, a pregnant dog is just too weird.

1667
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:04,760
Speaker 1: And I don't disagree with that. I don't necessarily want

1668
01:40:04,760 --> 01:40:06,000
Speaker 1: a pregnant doll.

1669
01:40:06,200 --> 01:40:09,240
Speaker 2: If you've seen the doll, I like, because I also

1670
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 2: wrote Justice Formage in my notes, Justice Formage as she's

1671
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 2: presented in the movie.

1672
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 1: In the movie, Yeah, and then you see the doll

1673
01:40:15,320 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: and you're like, that is disturbing. But when you see

1674
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, Emerald Fanelle in the movie and then it

1675
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:25,000
Speaker 1: like pans away from her really quick, it just means

1676
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: that there's a joke at the expense of a pregnant person. Yeah,

1677
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 1: so I didn't love that either.

1678
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:37,720
Speaker 2: I let it fly, but only because the dolls genuinely

1679
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:38,840
Speaker 2: bone chilling.

1680
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 1: It's creepy. Yeah, I guess I don't know how succinctly

1681
01:40:44,880 --> 01:40:49,879
Speaker 1: or thoughtfully I made any kind of like conclusive thoughts

1682
01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: throughout the live show, but I do just want to

1683
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:57,599
Speaker 1: say that, like bottom line, it's about women lifting each

1684
01:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,759
Speaker 1: other up and fighting against the patriarchy. Very few movies

1685
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:04,480
Speaker 1: are actually about that. It's not a movie that revolves

1686
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:10,879
Speaker 1: around a woman ending up romantically with a man. Instead,

1687
01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:15,640
Speaker 1: it's a movie about a woman's self discovery and self actualization.

1688
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 1: But I also think that this movie pretty accurately reflects

1689
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 1: where we are at culturally in regard to feminism. You know,

1690
01:41:26,240 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 1: it's again a big, high budget, high grossing movie about

1691
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:36,960
Speaker 1: feminism that still focuses on a character who is sis.

1692
01:41:37,000 --> 01:41:40,840
Speaker 1: She's white, she's hyper feminine, she's traditionally beautiful, because that

1693
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:45,200
Speaker 1: is it's Margarot Robbie, because that is still what's largely

1694
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:49,360
Speaker 1: valued by society. And even though there's more feminist discourse

1695
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:54,679
Speaker 1: in the mainstream culture than there was, and there's more

1696
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 1: calling out sexism and patriarchal standards than there was, like

1697
01:41:58,560 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, a decade ago and certainly before that, intersectionality

1698
01:42:03,000 --> 01:42:07,000
Speaker 1: is still not very mainstream. And I think this movie

1699
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,640
Speaker 1: reflects that. I think that the as we said, like

1700
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 1: the attempts at inclusion are pretty surface level, and it

1701
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: just means that we just have to keep pushing the

1702
01:42:18,560 --> 01:42:22,880
Speaker 1: conversation right of intersectionality and meaningful inclusion.

1703
01:42:23,080 --> 01:42:25,719
Speaker 2: And I think that this movie, I want to believe,

1704
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,599
Speaker 2: and I think we did discuss this in the live show,

1705
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:31,479
Speaker 2: is that while this movie leaves a lot to be

1706
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 2: desired in terms of meaningful inclusion, that its success in

1707
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 2: a just world leaves the way. Yeah. I mean, because

1708
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:43,280
Speaker 2: we've talked about this on this show for years, where

1709
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:47,000
Speaker 2: it's like proving again and again and again that a

1710
01:42:47,120 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 2: quote unquote marginalized movie going population, which is ridiculous because

1711
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 2: women are the majority of movie going population, like need

1712
01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:59,959
Speaker 2: to be validated as worthy of being catered to directly.

1713
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:03,960
Speaker 2: And it's very rare that, like, at least in the

1714
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:08,800
Speaker 2: blockbuster sense, that women and friends are undeniably shown to

1715
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:14,200
Speaker 2: be can be a force behind a movie. And I hope,

1716
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,280
Speaker 2: and you know, blah blah blah, Like I don't believe

1717
01:43:17,320 --> 01:43:19,120
Speaker 2: we live in a just world, but I hope that

1718
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 2: the success of Barbie will lead two more meaningfully inclusive projects,

1719
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:27,879
Speaker 2: and hopefully this will be a stepping stone in building

1720
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:32,559
Speaker 2: blockbusters that are genuinely more inclusive. And I think building

1721
01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:37,479
Speaker 2: blockbusters that are more genuinely inclusive mean straying from this

1722
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:43,880
Speaker 2: old ip because you're presented with a high fucking mountain

1723
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:47,560
Speaker 2: to scale if you're given Barbie ip like, it's it.

1724
01:43:48,080 --> 01:43:51,439
Speaker 2: I really hope that the success of Barbie can be

1725
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:56,759
Speaker 2: taken as a sign that yes, in fact, women still

1726
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:01,800
Speaker 2: want to see movies, always have, always will, and to

1727
01:44:01,960 --> 01:44:07,639
Speaker 2: invest in original stories that don't have these complicated and

1728
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:12,519
Speaker 2: fucked connections with body image, with race, with heteronormativity that

1729
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:17,280
Speaker 2: the Barbie property does. And so anyways, I think this movie, like,

1730
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 2: I mean, we've talked about it all at this point,

1731
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:24,000
Speaker 2: but its failures should be discussed, and I hope that

1732
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:27,760
Speaker 2: its success means that those failures can be corrected by

1733
01:44:28,120 --> 01:44:31,880
Speaker 2: directors down the line. And with that, let's take you

1734
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:36,120
Speaker 2: back to the Barbie past, where we provide our Barbie

1735
01:44:36,120 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 2: past conclusive thoughts about the Barbie movie.

1736
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:46,320
Speaker 1: Wow, does the movie pass the Bechdel test?

1737
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:46,800
Speaker 2: Yes?

1738
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, immediately and all the time. And we

1739
01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:54,000
Speaker 1: love that, and we love that. And when the Kens

1740
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:56,000
Speaker 1: are talking, they're usually talking about barbiees.

1741
01:44:56,200 --> 01:44:56,760
Speaker 2: It's true.

1742
01:44:56,760 --> 01:44:58,400
Speaker 1: It's like the reverse Spectel test thing.

1743
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:00,719
Speaker 2: It's true. They're either they're talking about Barbie or horses

1744
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:04,280
Speaker 2: and horses of indetermined gender. I feel like horses really

1745
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,479
Speaker 2: kind of get the short end of the stick in

1746
01:45:07,479 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 2: this movie. I feel like horses, you know, they never

1747
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 2: asked to be associated with patriarchy, That's true. Let them

1748
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:15,920
Speaker 2: be free. The Felicity girls are begging for it.

1749
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 1: Yes, but what about our nipple scale? The scale world

1750
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 1: we write the movie was zero to five nipples. Examining

1751
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:28,400
Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens, Yes, I'm between like

1752
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,880
Speaker 1: a three point five and four on this. I think

1753
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 1: this movie is doing a lot more than most movies do.

1754
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:41,160
Speaker 1: And even though it misses opportunities to be more inclusive

1755
01:45:41,400 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 1: and to be more intersectional, and to just open up

1756
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:52,800
Speaker 1: more conversations about capitalism and white supremacy and all the

1757
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 1: things we discussed, it still is is a fun romp

1758
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: about women taking down the patriarchy, and I love that,

1759
01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: so I think I'll go I'll go four nipples. Four

1760
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 1: out of five is eighty percent, and that's still a

1761
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:13,360
Speaker 1: B minus and that feels honestly fair. So past Barbie

1762
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:19,679
Speaker 1: over here. I'll give one nipple to John Senna, whoever

1763
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 1: the fuck that is never heard of him. I will

1764
01:46:25,520 --> 01:46:28,719
Speaker 1: give one nipple to Esay, I will give one nipple

1765
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 1: to Greta Gerwig, and I'll give one nipple to Margot Robbie.

1766
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:40,320
Speaker 2: Wow, that was not creative at all. I'm going to

1767
01:46:40,360 --> 01:46:42,799
Speaker 2: go for as well. Yeah, I mean, based on everything

1768
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 2: we've been talking about and stuff we didn't even have

1769
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,040
Speaker 2: time to talk about. I think that this movie is

1770
01:46:48,080 --> 01:46:52,479
Speaker 2: because this movie exists and was so successful. I am

1771
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:56,559
Speaker 2: currently at the time of recording, optimistic that it will

1772
01:46:56,680 --> 01:47:01,280
Speaker 2: lead to more women driven projects that are more inclusive

1773
01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:04,000
Speaker 2: and are more thoughtful on the issues that this movie

1774
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:06,760
Speaker 2: didn't address. Because I is a Barbie movie ever going

1775
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:12,040
Speaker 2: to be capable of handling capitalism meaningfully. Probably not. But

1776
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:14,680
Speaker 2: I do feel like the success of this movie and

1777
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:19,080
Speaker 2: the fact that it is explicitly about women tackling women's

1778
01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:24,200
Speaker 2: issues is really amazing. Yeah, I mean, I think that obviously,

1779
01:47:24,240 --> 01:47:28,439
Speaker 2: the diversity of this movie is very surface. Y. I

1780
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:31,519
Speaker 2: still can't believe that they cast EASi Ray and gave

1781
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:35,200
Speaker 2: her ten lines like what is wrong with you? My

1782
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:37,680
Speaker 2: mom is a second grade teacher, And I asked, I

1783
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:40,759
Speaker 2: did a little study. I was like, what are kids'

1784
01:47:40,760 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 2: favorite parts of the Barbie movie? And their favorite parts

1785
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:48,880
Speaker 2: are when Easiray shows up they are so thrilled and

1786
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 2: do a leaper Mermaid. Wow, those are the parts that

1787
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:57,760
Speaker 2: matter to the children. And I celebrate that John Cena

1788
01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:02,160
Speaker 2: Mermaids sort of crickets there because who is that? Who

1789
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,200
Speaker 2: is John Senna? Who's John Senna? I don't know who

1790
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:08,719
Speaker 2: that who that is? But yeah, I mean I also,

1791
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 2: I just like, I really liked seeing this movie. It

1792
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:14,840
Speaker 2: puts me in a good mood to watch it, and

1793
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:16,280
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of movies that do it. And

1794
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna stand the test of time. And

1795
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:20,360
Speaker 2: I think that's really exciting. So I'm gonna give it

1796
01:48:20,360 --> 01:48:23,840
Speaker 2: four nipples. I'm gonna give one to Greta Gerwig. I'm

1797
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,240
Speaker 2: gonna give one. Oh, I'm gonna give one to Arianna

1798
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:28,720
Speaker 2: green Blatt because I wish that Sasha had had more

1799
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:33,040
Speaker 2: to do, and she played the moody teenager really perfectly. Truly,

1800
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:37,880
Speaker 2: she was like giving full hot topic in her first

1801
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:40,919
Speaker 2: scene she had. I was like, all, but like the thumb,

1802
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:43,519
Speaker 2: you know, like the slave on the thumb. She could

1803
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 2: have been wearing fingerless gloves and it would have worked.

1804
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:50,720
Speaker 2: And that's great. I'm going to give one nipple to

1805
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:54,680
Speaker 2: Issa Ray and I'm gonna give one nipple too. I'll

1806
01:48:54,720 --> 01:48:56,640
Speaker 2: give one to John Senna as well. I hope he

1807
01:48:56,720 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 2: catches a break at some point. He's really no, I'm

1808
01:49:00,760 --> 01:49:03,880
Speaker 2: going to give min a DJ Collin because no, wait, wait,

1809
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 2: wait no, I'm going to give my DJ collins ex wife.

1810
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 2: May things have improved on her end? Yeah? Is that

1811
01:49:15,240 --> 01:49:18,520
Speaker 2: an episode? That's our episode, everybody, mum.

1812
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:24,680
Speaker 1: And that was the Barbie Live Show. Thanks again to

1813
01:49:24,760 --> 01:49:28,000
Speaker 1: everyone who came out to all of the shows that

1814
01:49:28,040 --> 01:49:30,880
Speaker 1: we did on this tour. Thank you to the venues

1815
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:35,320
Speaker 1: for having us. We always have such fun doing live shows,

1816
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:36,200
Speaker 1: especially the.

1817
01:49:36,160 --> 01:49:39,360
Speaker 2: Meet and greets, hanging out like actually just getting to

1818
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 2: spend time with you. We really appreciate it very much.

1819
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:46,200
Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who bought merch and again we have

1820
01:49:46,360 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 1: another tour coming up in the UK, so if you

1821
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:57,200
Speaker 1: want to come see us do shows on Titanic or Shrek.

1822
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 1: We know most movies of all time, possibly the two

1823
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 1: movies that are most canon to this show, so you

1824
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,280
Speaker 1: know that we're gonna put on a spectacle.

1825
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 2: And you can't call us misinterests because guess what, they're

1826
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:16,040
Speaker 2: directed by men. Sorry, uh no, we'll see you at

1827
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:18,400
Speaker 2: the UK. Thanks to everyone who came out to this

1828
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:22,320
Speaker 2: tour and as always, if you want to listen to

1829
01:50:22,360 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 2: more Bechdel Cast, well you're very able to do that.

1830
01:50:26,240 --> 01:50:29,960
Speaker 2: You can go right now to our patreon Akmatreon that's

1831
01:50:29,960 --> 01:50:33,599
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, and for five dollars

1832
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:37,960
Speaker 2: a month, you have access to two additional episodes a

1833
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:42,360
Speaker 2: month around a fun theme hosted by Caitlin and myself.

1834
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 2: It's always a good time, and you'll get access to

1835
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 2: over one hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog there

1836
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:47,200
Speaker 2: as well.

1837
01:50:47,400 --> 01:50:51,000
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, you can also go to our merch

1838
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:55,200
Speaker 1: store at teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast, where

1839
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 1: you can satisfy all of your merch needs and everything

1840
01:50:58,479 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 1: there is designed by a one Jamie Loftus, So grab

1841
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,920
Speaker 1: your merch and stay tuned for the other live show

1842
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:12,280
Speaker 1: that we covered on this tour. That episode will be

1843
01:51:12,360 --> 01:51:15,320
Speaker 1: coming out soon on The Wolf of Wall Street, so

1844
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:22,120
Speaker 1: keep your eyes peeled for that and other episodes. Ye Bye,

1845
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:26,040
Speaker 1: Bye Bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1846
01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:30,000
Speaker 1: hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman,

1847
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:33,680
Speaker 1: edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

1848
01:51:33,720 --> 01:51:38,000
Speaker 1: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski. Our logo in

1849
01:51:38,120 --> 01:51:41,439
Speaker 1: Merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks

1850
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:45,639
Speaker 1: to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please

1851
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:48,000
Speaker 1: visit linktree slash Bechdel Cast