WEBVTT - Clay Talks with Miranda Devine 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:05.160 You're listening to Fox Sports for you, Welcome in Wins 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.920 and Losses. I'm your host, Clay Travis. We are joined 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.240 now by Miranda Divine of The New York Post. You 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.560 may have heard her interviewed on Clay and Buck some 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.520 over the past few years. You certainly have probably seen 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:20.279 her on Fox News. I believe they should rescind all 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.959 of the Russia Collusion Politzer Prizes and give them to her. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.360 Um And during the course of this conversation, I bet 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.200 you're going to end up agreeing with me. So thank 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.760 you to Miranda for joining us. And Miranda, before we 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.040 dive into your book, Laptop from Hell, the whole New 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.760 York Post story, all of that, what's your background? How 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.960 did you come to be writing for the New York Post? Uh? 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:46.120 Where did you grow up? What is your journalism background? 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.159 Kind of let people know more about you. Honestly, I 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:51.159 would like to know too. I'm not that expert on 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.560 on your past history here. Well, Clay, thanks for having 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.040 me and um I suppose it will be confusing to 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.200 tell you that I was born in Jamaica, Queens, even 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:08.320 though the accent is obviously not from there, and my 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:13.000 parents were journalists here, and then we moved to Tokyo, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.800 where I spent six years at an American school and 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.080 they had a very strong American accent. And then we 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:22.320 moved to Australia, which is my parents or my mother's homeland, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:29.640 and I got an Australian accent overnight pretty much. And um, 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.759 then I did a mass degree as a as a detour, 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.400 and always wanted to be a journalist, and my parents 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.440 had said no, no, don't do it, but I ended 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.399 up they were back in America. My father was um 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.520 working to the Reader's Digest, he was an editor there, 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.640 and UM, I ended up coming back here to go 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:57.040 to Northwestern University. I did a journalism degree or master's 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.840 um to one year, and then I bounced around a 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:04.280 bit and ended up at the Boston Herald and where 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.040 I spent a very pleasant couple of years three years, 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:13.440 and then I went back to Australia, got married, spent 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:18.760 twenty years there, pretty much raised our sons um and 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.760 then my editor at the time and the newspaper was 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.760 at in Sydney, was transferred to New York to become 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.120 editor of the New York Post, Carl Allen, and he 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.760 was the legendary editor in Australia and then here um, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.800 and he at the end of his tenure, he said 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.320 to me, why don't you come over and just come 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.120 over for eighteen months covered the election and that was 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:50.280 the twenty twenty election. So I came here in and 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.760 basically the post minister. So we've been here ever since. Okay, So, 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.280 first of all, Australia, and this is a stupid American question. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.640 We're gonna be married and unless my wife leaves me 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.639 in the next year, which is always possible. Um, we're 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.280 gonna hit twenty years. We've got three boys. Everything else. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.320 Before we even dive into the New York Post story, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.800 if I were going to Australia for two weeks and 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.880 I was taking my family fourteen twelve, eight, three boys, 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.960 where would you say you should fly into Where would 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.840 you say you absolutely have to see? Like if I 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:28.760 had two weeks to go to Australia because I'm thinking 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.480 about taking my wife on our twentieth wedding anniversary and 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.320 I've always wanted to go, I've never been, what would 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.080 you say as an Australian to me an American who's 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.200 never been before, you absolutely have to see this well, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.520 I'm biased because the city that I've spent the most 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.120 time in his Sydney, and it's absolutely beautiful. Um. But 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.640 with your kids, I would definitely take them up to Queensland, 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:54.800 to the Gold Coast. There are a lot of you know, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:59.480 sort of Disney World Star style placed absolutely stunning beaches. Um. 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.920 And then you can go further north and into some 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.680 pretty wild sort of crocodile country and meet some aboriginals 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.360 and um, and you know, go into sort of out 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.720 back Australia, which is pretty cool. I mean, if you 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.560 could get onto a station and out back station, um, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.760 you know, a huge like a huge cattle ranch sort 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.080 of thing, but we're probably cheap, um, that would be 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:28.040 an amazing experience. But I would also say, if you've 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.880 got two weeks, you should, um explore the region. So 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:35.159 go to New Zealand go to a place called Queenstown, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:41.839 which is just absolutely spectacularly beautiful. Um. So yeah's my advice. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:43.919 All right, that's on my that's on my list. I 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.719 literally jotted all of that down as you were talking. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.480 I bet there's a lot of other Americans who similarly 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:51.480 would love to take a trip to Australia and also 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.640 maybe New Zealand, although it's been so crazy during COVID 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:56.440 in both places that kind of turned me off a 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.880 little bit. UM. But I want to now dive into 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.479 So you come to the United States in UH to 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.360 work at the New York Post. We know, and this 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.000 is kind of putting the time frame out there, and 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.039 it certainly jump in and correct me if at any 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:17.920 point I'm wrong. In December of the Joe Biden son, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.960 Hunter Biden's laptop is turned over to the FBI. Right 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.880 the John Paul, the laptop repairman, says that Hunter Biden, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.840 he thinks he's not gonna have great vision, shows up 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:34.279 with this laptop, turns it into him to get repaired. UH. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.920 And while it is there it is UH. He comes 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.240 and becomes aware of what's on this laptop, contacts the 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.000 FBI after Hunter Biden doesn't show up, doesn't pay for it, 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.000 doesn't come back to reclaim it, and shares it with 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:53.720 the FBI. In December, you become aware that this laptop exists, 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.440 allegedly exists, let's say at the time. When when do 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.280 you first become aware, Hey, this thing is out there. 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:05.880 Not until the beginning of October when I got a 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:11.599 series of text messages from Rudy Giuliani's lawyer Bob Costello, 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:19.000 and uh Rudy Giuliani had been UM sent them the 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:23.240 sort of hard drive, the copy of the laptop UM 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:29.320 in August. So um this this is now nine months 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.479 after John Paul mac Isaac has handed over the device 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.160 the laptop to the FBI, but very cleverly kept a 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.919 copy of it. UM and he only contacted the FBI 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.520 eight months after U Hunter Biden abandoned the laptop at 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:52.000 his store and it became his his legal property. And 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.159 so I get this text message late at night. I've 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.120 been talking to Rudy as soon as I came to 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:02.960 New York. I cultivated Ruddy Juliani because well because I 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.680 knew of his proximity to Donald Trump and that he 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.920 knows everybody in New York. But also I had lived 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:11.960 here back in the the you know, the bat old 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.240 eighties with my parents, when New York was just a hellhole, 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:19.640 and so I had a huge amount of respect for 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.720 what he had done to clean up the city. So 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.160 to me, he was an icon of New York. And 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:25.640 I was going to work for the New York Post. 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.760 I wanted to become his friends. So I was sort 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:32.520 of doing that, and he now was trusting me and 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:37.080 given the interviews and so on, and so, um, I 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.000 think I was top of mind when they had had 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.360 some difficulty. That's a long story, but you know, they 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.920 had contacted a send of mine at the New York 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.160 Post earlier and she'd um she didn't have a copy 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.080 of the hard drive, but she had been working on it. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.640 But the whole project to hit a sort of legal 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:01.480 stumbling point, and so I think Rudy Giuliani and Bob 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.960 Costello wanted it to go to the Post, but um, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.200 they were just they come to the end of their 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:11.840 tether because it was now so close to the election, 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.200 was a month before the elections, so they were going 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.000 to hand it over to the Daily Mail or some 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:22.440 other organization. And at the last minute, Rudy Giuliani said 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.360 to Bob just try him around it. So he tried 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:29.760 me late one night, and I loved it, and and 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.240 you know, spent some time the next day talking to 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:35.800 both of them about it and resolved that this was 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.440 kind of above my pay grade. So I uh sent 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.199 some of the information and talked to my editor in 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.880 chief Kyle Allen, the Australian editor that I had that 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.240 I had this very good, long standing relationship with, so 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:53.240 it was a mutual trust situation and he immediately saw 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.360 what a you know what, what potential there was in 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.959 this story. So he just put his all the best 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.599 journalists in the newsroom onto um tracking it down. We 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:07.520 sent someone down to Delaware to interview jump On mac 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:11.480 Isaac and it was all systems go, and within five 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.679 or six days, UM we had the first story up 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.400 and running. Okay, so you have been doing journalism for 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.760 a while. Every journalist has to have in some way 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.920 a bullshit detector, right, for lack of a better way 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.640 of describing it, because you've probably over the years been 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:34.520 pitched all sorts of fantastical. This is the once in 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.600 a lifetime story. This is incredibly compelling, and probably over 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:41.760 time you do some research and you're like, okay, this 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.800 isn't as it was initially conveyed to me. When did 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.760 you start to look at the documents yourself and say, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:55.840 holy crap, this is a monster story. The data is 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:01.400 just voluminous of Hunter Biden, this being officially his laptop, 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.720 the videos, the pictures, everything else. Because in the back 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.120 of your mind. You had to know that the Biden 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.680 team was never going to be like, yeah, you know what, 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.400 you caught us red handed? Kind of take me through 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.920 that process in your mind of hey, this thing exists, 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.920 but could it really be real? And working your way 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:27.960 towards your own determination of the documents. Yeah, well, you're 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.000 absolutely right, Clay that you know, after three decades or 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.360 more in journalism, I've wasted so much time when I 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.480 was younger in um you know, being a little too 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.560 or not skeptical enough. You know, people come to you 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.160 with their stories and voluminous documents, and I've wasted so 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:47.320 much time until I find out at the end that 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.920 you know, it's just not worth a story. Um So, 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.520 I now, you know, the last ten years or so, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:58.160 I just on the side of, um, just ultra skepticism. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.160 I just anyone comes to me with the story. I 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.240 just admitted it was young. Yeah, sure, I'm not gonna 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.880 waste my time on this. I'll have a quick glance 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.680 at it. Um So, you know, of the stuff that 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.760 comes to me, I will just dismiss this was different because, 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.760 um first of all, Rudy Giuliani in the sort of 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.079 a year and a half a couple of years I've 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.199 come to know him. He'd never steered me wrong. Bob 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:29.280 Costello is an incredibly legitimate person, you know, former assistant 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.800 head of UM Criminal Investigations at the Southern District of 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.720 New York, very eminent lawyer, brain like a steel trap. UM. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.280 So the two of them were very legitimate. The material 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.280 they were showing me, even before I had the laptop, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.760 UM just checked out, you know, just quick Google sort 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.319 searches of dates and times and photographs and so on, 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.240 just on a very cursory level checked out. UM. And 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.800 then you know, John Paul mac Isaac was a legitimate guy. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.520 He he um, you know, and as I've come to 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.640 know him, I mean, he's a very genuine person, a 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.680 real patriot. He's a Trump supporter, but that doesn't outlaw 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:14.480 someone from having an opinion, UM, and and having legitimate material. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.920 And he was very concerned. The reason he contacted Rudy 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.760 Giuliani in the end, and after originally contacting the FBI, 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.280 was because he saw the president, President Trump, who he 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.559 voted for, getting raked over the coals over the Ukraine impeachment. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.439 And he knew that in the laptop there was exculpatory 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:40.880 evidence about Ukraine, about the rhythma UM, you know, chapter 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.200 and birth. He he did a really good forensic deep 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.200 dive on that, and that was very impressive. I mean 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.320 I had his material, his email that he turned to 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.720 Bob Costello initially in August, which really, I mean even 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.640 today stands the test of time. He pulled out of 0:12:55.679 --> 0:13:00.800 that laptop three of the most crucial documents UM and 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:05.520 narratives to do with Ukraine that are as danning today 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.080 or you've probably more than they were then. So all 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.640 of this again, you know, we then UM uh you know, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.120 other reporters UM, Emma Joe Morris, a terrific journalist fan 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.320 of mine. UM, she did some some excellent kind of 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.440 a due diligence UM, and other journalists that we had 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.720 did as well. UM. And so we were very confident 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.240 with those first UM, that first week of stories that 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:34.719 the emails UM that we were referring to were legitimate. UM. 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.400 And then you know, I get a chance to actually 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:42.400 do it, a longer, deeper dive in it, and I 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.160 end up talking to Oh, sorry, from the very beginning, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.840 I also had UM. I forgot to other UM tiny 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:53.079 Bob Lynsky's UM material, all his that he had handed 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:57.760 over to the FBI. I came into UM possession of 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.800 that early on, so I was able to cross match 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.520 the emails that came from UH. You know that really 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.320 that Tony bob Lynsky and Hunter Biden had in common. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.199 And on top of that, Tony bob Lynsky had WhatsApp messages, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.880 UM and other documents that sort of butterst and augmented 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.640 what was on the laptop. And then you know, obviously 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.920 talking to Tony bob Lynsky and other people who were 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:29.960 recipients of those emails, it just was just incontrovertible. This 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.440 was a legitimate UM laptop. This was Hunter Biden's laptop. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.360 On top of that, you know, the night before we 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:43.920 published Octo, the night before we had contacted that earlier 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:49.360 that day UM Hunter Biden by his lawyer George Musir, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:54.920 and UM that evening, UM John Paul maciaac gets the 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.680 phone call from George Musir. We know it was George 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.560 Musir because John Paul mc guys like in his computer shop, 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:04.360 had the presence of mind to say, look, I don't 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.520 know if you are who you say you are. Can 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.120 you please send me an email and your work email, 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:11.560 so then I know you're actually had to bind lawyer 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.320 to just verify who you are. George Musir did that. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.760 And what George Muz asked jump On mac Isaac for 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.040 was he said, I understand that you have a computer 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.440 belonging to my client, UM, and we like to have 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:32.040 it back. So you know, they were just it wasn't 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.400 like one bombshell. It was just a thousand points of light. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.400 With any of these UM, it's material. We have vast 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:44.480 trobes of documents. UM. There's always, you know, countless ways 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.000 that you verify it, and I've just told you a 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.200 few of them. And now you know, I wrote a 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.600 book on it, and I've spent now over two years 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.000 um in depth looking at it. And there's not one 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.160 l element of this, this this laptop that I have 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.840 published or investigated that has not come out to be 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:11.120 completely legitimate. And of course the fact that Joe Biden 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:16.120 and Hunter Biden never never denied that this was Hunter's laptop, 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:18.240 and Hunter said, I could be in my laptop. You know, 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.400 I might have lost it, so I might have stolen it. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:24.040 They've never denied it. They've never denied outrite any of 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:28.800 the information on it. And in fact, Joe Biden halfway 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:34.440 through I had the first story that we wrote from 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:39.320 the laptop was on that October fourteen story was an 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:45.600 email that was Hunter Biden's Ukrainian paymaster who was paying 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.200 him a million dollars a year, thanked him and his 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.200 email for introducing him to his father in Washington did 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:59.160 and that was when Joe Biden was Vice president. And 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.040 I managed to find that sorry game, and so I 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.639 managed to find later on as I went further and 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.119 further into the laptop. But this wasn't just any old meeting. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.800 This was a dinner that Hunter Biden had organized in 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.760 April for his father, then the Vice president, to meet 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:26.160 his clients, prospective benefactors from the Ukraine but also from 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.119 Russia and Kazakhstan. And he organized this dinner at a 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:35.680 Georgetown restaurant called Cafe Milano. And you know, so many 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:40.000 emails and he says, I'll ostensibly this is supposed to 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.000 be about, you know what, the World Food program that 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.960 he's involved with. That don't you know my dad's coming. 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.639 Don't show anyone um And you know they denied that 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:54.160 this meeting ever happened. And then halfway through I published 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:58.080 the story about the Cafe Milano, and the Washington Post 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.040 decides that they're going to prospect check me Glenn Kistler, 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.640 and lo and behold, Glenn Kissler finds out that actually 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:10.280 the White House admits that Joe did go to the dinner, 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.040 but that he you know, didn't go for any nesarious 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.920 purpose and only stayed a short time, which is not true. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.400 He stayed with the entire you know, I'm told by 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.359 people who were there, stayed for the entire you know, 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.600 just didn't drink. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.439 talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.679 at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.919 Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. Okay, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.560 I love all of this. I want to dive into 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.160 the timeline. If we couldn't, We're talking to Miranda Divine. 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.560 I'm Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses, a deep 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.359 dive into the New York Post story on Hunter Biden, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.359 Joe Biden and how it came to pass and the 0:18:50.400 --> 0:18:53.040 reaction to it. And my idea, by the way, for 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:56.360 everybody out there listening, is so many of these details 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.639 You may have come on to this story a year in, 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.399 you might have come in two years. A lot of 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.199 people out there are still trying to catch up. And 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.639 I told you before we started recording, Miranda, it's like 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.800 a television series that you might suddenly have watched an 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.239 episode of in year three and you're like, oh, this 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.240 is interesting, but you don't really know the background upon 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.280 which it's based. So my idea is to kind of 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:22.439 ground this inner reality, to get the timeline everybody understand it. 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:29.360 So you published the first story is in October four, Yeah, okay, 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.200 all hell breaks loose. I want to go into all 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.840 hell breaking loose as you published, but I also want 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.520 to contextualize a couple of things that we now know 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:42.719 that are very important. The FBI was at the time, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.840 uh surveiling Rudy Giuliani. So not only did the FBI 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:52.119 have the Hunter Biden laptop since December of when it 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.240 was handed over to them by John Paul Maciaac, but 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:00.200 also they were surveilling Rudy Giuliani, so in theory, they 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.840 were aware of everyone in the media that he was 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.960 talking to. And as point of fact, and I'm sure 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.400 you've seen this as the Twitter documents have come out. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:14.520 The FBI actually conducted a briefing basically the night before 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.520 this story was coming out, while saying there may be 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.240 some Russian disinformation coming out to seed in the Twitter 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.560 in the Facebook sphere. We've seen Mark Zuckerberg come out 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.440 and talk about these briefings. We've seen the actual documents 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.720 from inside Twitter. Did you have any clue that the 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.600 FBI had at the time Rudy Giuliani under surveillance and 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.240 was in theory aware of the communication that you were 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.560 engaging with Rudy Giuliani. Presumably they would have heard you 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.240 and or seen your interaction with him in some way 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.399 with him under surveillance. Did you know about any of 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.320 that at the time. I had no idea, And now 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.080 that did Rudy. Rudy Giuliani. This was a COVID surveillance 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:02.359 warrant um and the FBI was basically spying on his cloud, 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.640 so they had access to all his emails and messages 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:08.200 at that time for about two years. I mean they 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:14.879 started when he became President Trump's um private lawyer. Whether 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.560 or not they were really using Rudy Giuliani and now 0:21:18.760 --> 0:21:20.879 and sorry, sorry to cut you off, Miranda would they 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.760 have been phone tapping him as well to hear conversations 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:27.960 or to your knowledge? Was this just like, hey, they're 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.040 getting every text message for in theory and email that 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.080 he would have been sending. Do you know I believe 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.560 it was just a cloud. Um. I think it's quite 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:41.919 easy for the FBI now to just send messages to uh, 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.679 you know, the Apple or whoever to get access to 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.679 people's because yeah, okay, that's interesting. Does that make you 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.280 feel as a journalist, as someone who was reporting on 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:55.080 a presidential election? I just want to focus on that 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.879 for a moment, like that feels insanely dirty to me, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.240 because they have sense we should mention this too. Found 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.120 out that Rudy Giuliani violated no law, and they have said, hey, 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.560 we're not bringing any charges. So they got a wire 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:13.439 tap potentially. I think it's fair to say under unsavory 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.360 UH conditions, investigated him, determined that he was doing nothing wrong, 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.680 and in theory, I'm presuming you would have been texting 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:25.359 with Rudy Giuliani and emailing, right, so they were able 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.040 to then keep trapped tabs on you and any other 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.679 journalists that he was talking to. Does that make you 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.320 feel dirty that the United States government was able to 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:38.160 be basically snooping into all of your communications, especially when 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.000 you're a journalist trying to get a truthful story out. 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.359 Oh for sure. But I mean, I guess you know, 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:49.919 most of the sources that I speak to, um, you know, 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.080 for a long time now we just assume that someone's 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.440 listening in its unparanoid, but we use encrypto app um 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:02.480 and talking so um. You know, I think Brilly Juniorani 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.800 was always very careful about what he said. He's just 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:10.439 not someone who really um writes a lot on text 0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:12.239 and neither way. I guess it makes you want to 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.119 just meet face to face almost right, so that in 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:18.000 theory you can you can talk open. How crazy is 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:19.959 that that you have to be concerned about the FBI 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.560 as a journalist, that you have to be concerned about 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.280 the FBI snooping on you such that you want to 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:30.040 meet in person as opposed to even engaging in a 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:34.159 phone conversation. Well, it's crazy, but we've seen that the 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:39.240 FBI have been raiding journalists rating lawyers um that you know, 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:44.639 attorney client privilege means nothing, um, journalistic sources meant nothing. 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:49.360 They rated Project veritas and took all their their phones 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:54.960 with all their confidential sources. Uh, there's just doesn't seem 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:59.720 to be any restrictions there are, there are no tabooze anymore. Um. 0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:04.320 So look, what we know is that Rudy Giuliani was 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:08.000 under I call it false pretenses. He was under surveillance. 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:11.760 He his house was raided, his home and his office 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:17.200 were raided. I think it was all his devices were seized. 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:22.080 And then quietly two years later, more than two years later, 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.280 two and a half years later, they returned all his 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:28.720 devices and they just, um, you know, said that there 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:32.040 were no no charges. This he was being looked at 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:37.280 by the FBI over Foreign Agent Registration Act violations or 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:41.159 alleged violations, which they found there weren't any violations. But 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:46.080 ironically that's the exact same violations that Hunter bidens being 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:51.040 looked at by their Delaware U. S. Attorney. But anyway, 0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:56.040 so Rudy Giuliani, we know he's under surveillance during the 0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.120 time that I was speaking to him, but more importantly, 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:04.440 in August of he was under surveillanced by the FBI. 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:09.040 When John Paul maciasac sent that initial very voluminous and 0:25:09.160 --> 0:25:14.639 detailed email to him with screenshots from the laptop talking 0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:19.359 about Ukraine and his concerns about national security. So the 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.560 FBI had that say, well, I don't know if they 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.400 had it. I mean, maybe they're lazy and they had 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:26.320 the surveillance warrant and didn't see it. So I can't 0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:30.720 I can't definitively say that the FBI saw that email, 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:33.399 but they certainly had access to it because they were 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.280 spying on Rudy. They would have also had access to 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:39.199 my messages with Rudy. One in particular. Most of them 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.720 were pretty anodyne, but one of them in particular would 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:43.879 have tipped them off that The New York Post was 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:48.159 going to publish. So um and and you know, the 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:53.440 FBI had had the laptop since December. They had interviewed 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.240 John Pool mac Isaac twice. They knew he was a 0:25:56.320 --> 0:26:00.800 legitimate guy. Um. They they pretty only had done some 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:03.920 research on him. They knew that what was on the 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:07.760 laptop was genuine, and they had buried it. We now 0:26:07.840 --> 0:26:12.160 know from FBI whistleblowers who came forward to Chuck Grasley 0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:16.040 and Ron Johnson that they that there were there were 0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:20.880 people within the FBI, within the Washington Field office, who 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:25.919 buried anything to do with the Hunter Biden laptop or 0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.760 anything to do any any information that was deroctory about 0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:33.679 Joe Biden for Inston's including Hunter Biden's former business partner 0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:37.560 Tony Bobolynsky, who I mentioned before, who who I had 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:40.679 all his material. He had come forward to the FBI 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:47.560 a week or so before the election voluntarily handed over 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:51.800 the contents of his phone which I had, and also 0:26:52.240 --> 0:26:55.440 um he had a five and a half hour interview 0:26:55.480 --> 0:27:00.040 with them and told them about his concerns about the 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:05.160 influenced peddling um operation that Joe Biden and his son 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:09.520 and his brother Jim Biden had been carrying on to 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:13.080 do with China, because Tony bob Lynsky was involved in 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:17.720 the China deals. And so the FBI, also we know 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:21.960 from whistleblowers, buried that, Okay, and and they start to 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.080 cut you off. I'm gonna get into that in a second, 0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:26.920 but just to me, the essence of the question here, Miranda, 0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:28.200 and you've laid it out, but I just kind of 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:30.640 want to sum it up is the FBI had had 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:34.720 this laptop since December. They knew that it was real 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:37.640 based on talking to John Paul mciaac just based on 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:44.119 the voluminous degree of incriminating behavior and just also specific behavior. 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:48.160 This couldn't have the pictures, the video like it couldn't 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:52.200 have been made up, all right? I mean and and again, Uh, 0:27:52.640 --> 0:27:56.080 they knew that it was real from December. They are 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:59.840 they then have trumped up charges basically to be able 0:27:59.880 --> 0:28:03.320 to surveill Rudy Giuliani. As a result, they know that 0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.440 your New York Post story is coming out. They are 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:11.320 telling all of the big tech companies, Hey, Russian disinformation 0:28:11.400 --> 0:28:14.639 is coming out. So I'm curious how you would analyze 0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:19.000 this someone at the FBI. It's possible, right that these 0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:24.480 lower level FBI people who are giving these uh sermons 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:28.160 to the big tech companies about Russian disinformation, they may 0:28:28.200 --> 0:28:30.560 not have known there there there's a possibility there's different 0:28:30.600 --> 0:28:34.240 investigations going on and they didn't know about the laptop 0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:36.240 or the specifics of it. Let's give them a little 0:28:36.240 --> 0:28:38.840 bit of benefit of the doubt here. But someone at 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.880 the FBI, maybe it's Christopher Ray, someone certainly at the 0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:46.880 very apex of the FBI knew this laptop was real 0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:53.320 and allowed a false information campaign to be waged against 0:28:53.440 --> 0:28:56.959 your New York Post story. To me, that's the essence 0:28:56.960 --> 0:29:00.320 of this question. Who ordered that code read? Who knew 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:04.480 the laptop was real and then used every asset they could, 0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:08.920 including the FBI itself, to protect Joe Biden Hunter Biden 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:11.600 from this truth to coming out. Is that kind of 0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.720 to me? That's the essence of this story right now, 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:17.640 as all of this information has come out, somebody at 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:20.600 the FBI knew this was real and prevented the truth 0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:23.520 from coming out. Who was that? That's the crux of 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:27.800 this story to me, that's the sixty four dollar question. 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:32.760 And like Watergate, the cover up by the FBI inclusion 0:29:32.760 --> 0:29:36.320 with the social media companies and probably the CIA or 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:41.640 former CIA operatives, uh they they were involved in bearing 0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:45.480 this story. The cover up is worse than even the 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:50.600 corruption that we've uncovered from the Biden family and the FBI. 0:29:51.160 --> 0:29:55.480 UM basically had warned Twitter and Facebook during the weekly 0:29:55.600 --> 0:30:00.800 meetings before the election to expect hack and leak operations 0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:05.640 by Russia, and Twitter was warned that they would probably 0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:10.000 involve Hunter Biden and probably happen will likely happened in October. 0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:15.320 Facebook was told UM warned, we know from Mark Zuckerberg 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:18.400 talking to Joe rogan Um was warned also to be 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.840 on high Lerk for a dump pro Russian propaganda in 0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:26.040 October before. And that's why I think this is so important, Miranda, 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:29.600 because I understand why people are angry at Twitter and Facebook. 0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.800 But if you were a mid level employee at Twitter 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:36.840 and Facebook and your FBI came to you and said, hey, 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:40.560 we know based on our investigation that Russian dis info 0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:44.880 is coming based on allegations surrounding Hunter Biden and Joe 0:30:44.880 --> 0:30:47.760 Biden in their relationship, there's going to be doctor documents 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:51.800 and everything else. When your story dropped, they would have 0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:55.320 seen this and said, oh my goodness, this is exactly 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:58.720 what we've been warned about, which is why the nefarious 0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:03.320 actions of the f e I are so galling, because 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:06.960 they took advantage of I really think they played Facebook 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:10.080 and Twitter for fools. But also, if I'm putting myself 0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.600 in this position, Miranda, if I had been twenty eight 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:14.800 or thirty two and I'm a mid level employee at 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:18.080 Twitter and the FBI is sharing this information with me, 0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:21.520 and they've already seeded this idea of your democracies in 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:25.720 peril because of Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and everybody else. Like, 0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.120 you can see why they reacted the way that they 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.600 did right now. I mean, it's easy to make them villains, 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:35.320 but I think the FBI is a supreme arch villain here, 0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:41.280 and really Twitter and Facebook were just stooges getting played. Yeah, 0:31:41.440 --> 0:31:44.600 I think you can say that, particularly when Twitter had 0:31:45.000 --> 0:31:49.000 as its deputy general counsel a guy called James Baker, 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.480 who had seen the General counsel, which is top lawyer 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:58.200 at the FBI during all the Russia collusion hoax stuff. 0:31:58.440 --> 0:32:01.120 You know, he was front and sent. He he was 0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:04.040 the guy who drafted the memo for James Comey about 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:07.120 Hillary Clinton. He was the one who brought in the 0:32:07.240 --> 0:32:12.520 Alpha Bank nonsense and all the other sort of nonsense 0:32:12.520 --> 0:32:15.760 stuff that turned out to be false, the Steel glossier, 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:19.640 and someone about about Donald Trump being a Russian asset. Um. 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:23.320 That was James Baker. He's a you know, a dirty player, 0:32:23.720 --> 0:32:28.000 and he somehow he gets basically has to resign from 0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:31.960 the FBI and low and behold about a year before 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.200 the election or lest he shows up at Twitter as 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.280 their number two lawyer. And he was, we know now 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:43.680 from the Twitter files, instrumental in getting Twitter to censor 0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:46.200 The New York Post after we published our first story 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:51.320 on the Hunter Biden laptop and lock the New York Post. 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:54.000 I'm sorry, I want to go to next So October 0:32:55.240 --> 0:32:58.280 the story breaks. I'm sure you were expecting it to 0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.160 be a bombshell, but all hell broke loose, even in 0:33:02.200 --> 0:33:04.400 a way that I don't think you would have anticipated. 0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.600 What was that experience like to have that story happened, 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.120 and then the results and maybe tell people who weren't 0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:15.040 necessarily following this minute by minute what happened to The 0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:17.560 New York Post when the story comes out to you? 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:21.960 To everyone involved in this story, well, we knew it 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:24.680 was a huge story. We knew that it was incredibly 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:28.440 damaging to one of the two candidates for president. It 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:33.640 was three weeks before the election um and so you know, 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:36.000 it took a lot of dusts for I have to say, 0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:39.960 my top editor to decide to go with it, and 0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:43.800 so we were bracing. We had decided rather than or 0:33:43.800 --> 0:33:47.480 the editors have decided, rather than publishing the night before 0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:50.640 as we normally do, like ten o'clock at night, we 0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:54.760 would hold back and publish in the paper but online 0:33:54.880 --> 0:33:59.240 only at five o'clock in the morning, and immediately journalists 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.840 on Twitter, um, you know, people like Maggie Happerman from 0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:05.600 the New York Times and people from NBC and so on, 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.520 started talking about it and sharing the story because it 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:14.239 was huge on anyone's standards. This journalistically, this was a 0:34:14.280 --> 0:34:21.400 massive scoop. Suddenly you had um, uh, the actually a 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:25.560 guy from Facebook who was a former Democratic operative. He 0:34:26.200 --> 0:34:29.399 pops up and he says on Twitter and he says, 0:34:29.640 --> 0:34:32.600 we are um, I can't remember his exact words, but 0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:37.720 throttling or stopping the spread of this story, pending fact checks, 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:40.080 not going to make any comment, not going to link 0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:43.480 on this story. And then shortly after that, Twitter did 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:45.920 the same thing, and effectively, I mean they've got all 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:50.040 sorts of words they used, like producing the the spread 0:34:50.160 --> 0:34:52.600 or something. I don't know what their jargon is, but 0:34:52.680 --> 0:34:56.239 effectively they just censored. They just killed the story. Um 0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:58.759 there and then and you know, I don't know if 0:34:58.760 --> 0:35:01.279 people understand, but with new papers now, so much of 0:35:01.800 --> 0:35:06.560 um what we do is online and it cost us 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:11.000 a lot of money. The fact that our our you know, 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:14.840 our story was locked down. Our account was locked for 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:17.319 over two weeks until a couple of days before the 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:21.680 election Um, it really for the New York Post, which 0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:26.879 is the country's oldest newspaper, the third largest bicirculation. It 0:35:27.040 --> 0:35:32.200 was just an incredible audacity by these social media giants 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:35.120 to do this. And we now see from the Twitter 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:40.279 files the internal communications inside Twitter and some of what 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:43.720 Mark Zuckerberg told us went on in Facebook. They didn't 0:35:43.760 --> 0:35:46.719 take this lightly. They knew that this was huge, but 0:35:46.880 --> 0:35:49.839 they were massaged into it. The story had already been 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:54.640 prebunked by the FBI. If that grooming of Twitter and 0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.680 Facebook hadn't been happening in the weeks before our story 0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:01.600 was published, they probably wouldn't have been bold enough to 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:05.279 censor The New York Post. But because they felt that 0:36:05.360 --> 0:36:11.480 they were operating on FBI instructions, basically to save national 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:17.360 security against Russian interference with the election. Um, they were 0:36:17.360 --> 0:36:21.320 willing servants of the intelligence community. And there is something 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:25.400 really dirty about the fact that here was the FBI 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:30.360 intervening for the second election in a row. Uh and 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:34.360 and with just completely dishonestly, they knew that our story 0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:37.680 was real. Um, you can't tell me that the people 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:40.960 who ordered the censorship of The New York Post from 0:36:40.960 --> 0:36:44.839 the FBI did not also know that what we were 0:36:44.880 --> 0:36:48.040 going to write was real, no doubt, And I think 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:50.360 that's what's so important. A lot of people focus on 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:54.120 Twitter and Facebook. Someone at the FBI, maybe a group 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.600 of people at the FBI at the top, again, just 0:36:56.640 --> 0:37:00.440 to reiterate, they knew that your story was coming. They 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:02.840 had known that your story was coming for some time 0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:05.839 because they had Rudy Giuliani under surveillance and they were 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:08.319 aware of much of his communications and the fact that 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:12.200 he was trying to shop this evidence from the laptop, 0:37:12.640 --> 0:37:16.120 which they had been in possession of the FBI themselves 0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:21.880 since December of So all Rudy Giuliani was shopping was 0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:25.839 another version of the information that they already had, which, 0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.120 by the way, if John Paul Mike Isaac hadn't made 0:37:28.120 --> 0:37:31.200 a copy of what was on the Hunter Biden laptop, 0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:33.960 no one would have ever believed him about this, right, 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:36.520 And the FBI would have probably destroyed the laptop and 0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:39.440 never admit that there was anything on there that was 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:43.040 in any way incriminating. Right. So someone ordered a fix 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:46.040 in a big way. I think this makes and I'm 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:48.880 curious what you think, Miranda, And obviously you're involved in 0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:51.480 writing this story. And you've done an incredible job. But 0:37:51.560 --> 0:37:55.560 I've been saying this makes Watergate seemed like jaywalking, right, 0:37:55.680 --> 0:37:59.719 like when you actually consider the complicity involved from the 0:37:59.800 --> 0:38:02.760 f b I and where exactly and how many different 0:38:02.800 --> 0:38:06.600 people were involved in this conspiracy of silence to protect 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:11.080 Joe Biden and potentially rigged election. I mean it is. 0:38:11.239 --> 0:38:13.600 It is a story the likes of which most of 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:17.239 the people listening to us right now have never experienced 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:21.880 in our lifetimes. Yes, and it has the added element 0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:26.520 of the threat national security that Joe Biden's and his 0:38:26.680 --> 0:38:31.920 family's influenced peddling operation had during the eight years that 0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:36.080 he was Vice president and his son and brother were 0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:42.440 running around the world partnering with Chinese Belton road Front 0:38:42.560 --> 0:38:48.279 organizations allied with the Chinese military and military intelligence. And 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:52.880 also were you know, a hunter was getting paid, as 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:57.080 I said, three thousand dollars a month from this corrupt 0:38:57.200 --> 0:39:01.799 energy company in Ukraine, UM sitting on their board. And 0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.760 you know the only reason that he was getting money 0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.400 from any of these people was it was a bribe 0:39:08.120 --> 0:39:12.359 paid to the family of the second most powerful man 0:39:12.400 --> 0:39:15.520 in the world, Joe Biden. And Joe Biden had been 0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:18.680 appointed by Barack Obama to be his point man in 0:39:18.800 --> 0:39:22.200 China and his point man in Ukraine, and both of 0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:26.000 those countries were extremely lucrative to the tune of tens 0:39:26.000 --> 0:39:28.960 of millions of dollars to his family. And you know, 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.719 Joe Biden was involved in that. And that's what the 0:39:32.840 --> 0:39:36.879 value of the laptop is, that it shows you how 0:39:36.960 --> 0:39:40.440 much Joe Biden was involved. He met with Hunter Biden's 0:39:40.480 --> 0:39:44.359 overseas business partners. He met them in Beijing, he met 0:39:44.400 --> 0:39:47.920 them in Washington, d C. He invited them to his 0:39:48.360 --> 0:39:53.440 home at the Vice Presidential Residents at the Naval Observatory. Um. 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.640 He met them, as I said, Cafe Milano. He met 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:01.120 them in his White House office. UM. So he was 0:40:01.280 --> 0:40:05.400 intimately involved. He was described as the big guy and 0:40:05.480 --> 0:40:08.560 one of their emails, who was going to get a 0:40:08.680 --> 0:40:12.760 cut a ten percent cut of one of these Chinese deals? Um. 0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:16.640 Tony Bob o Lynsky, hunter Biden's former business partner, swears 0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:19.719 blind that the big guy is Joe Biden. And that's 0:40:19.760 --> 0:40:24.440 backed up by other material on the laptop. There's so much, uh, 0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:28.120 you know, invoices and bank statements that show you the 0:40:28.160 --> 0:40:33.560 money flow, where it's coming from. The meetings, Joe Biden's involvement. UM. 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:36.600 And then you have to add to that the Treasury 0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:40.800 Department documents, these so called suspicious activity reports that banks 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:44.960 are required to file when money that comes through into 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:50.120 their bank accounts of American citizens comes from a dodgy sources, suspects, 0:40:50.160 --> 0:40:53.600 sources overseas um. And there were you know, dozens of 0:40:53.640 --> 0:40:58.279 those suspicious activity reports filed about the Bidens. And that 0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:03.680 was unveiled by Chuck Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson when 0:41:03.719 --> 0:41:08.480 they did their incredibly good investigation, which came out in September. 0:41:09.360 --> 0:41:12.600 Before I even knew about the laptop. I read their report, 0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:15.960 their first report, and it was chapter and verse. It 0:41:16.040 --> 0:41:19.719 was like the prelude to the laptop. If you read that, 0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:22.920 then when you saw the laptop, it became clear. This 0:41:23.040 --> 0:41:26.360 was the flesh on the bones that Chuck Grasley and 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:30.360 Ron Johnson had already put together about the Hunter Biden 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:36.319 corruption and Ukraine and UM. Just as a little side note, 0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:41.640 the FBI also intervened to try and derail and discredit 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:46.799 um that that Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson's investigation. In fact, 0:41:46.840 --> 0:41:49.560 when I started writing about it, I was warned off 0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:52.000 and said oh, no, that's Russian disinformation. I was like, 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.160 why it wasn't what didn't seem to me to be so? 0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:58.719 And um, And what Ron Johnson told me was that 0:41:58.960 --> 0:42:03.520 he was amble by the FBI with a bogus defensive briefing, 0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:09.360 um being nothing with August or late August, early September, 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:15.680 because Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff had complained 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.560 to the FBI that there was some sort of Russian 0:42:18.560 --> 0:42:22.200 disinformation going on that was going to be derogatory about 0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:26.680 Joe Biden in the Johnson Grasley investigation. And if you 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:32.640 think of the timing, August is when h John Paul 0:42:32.680 --> 0:42:37.279 Maciaac sent that voluminous email to Rudy Giuliani that could 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:41.239 have seen I believe was intercepted by the FBI. So 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:45.200 somehow the Democrats panicked around that time and they went 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:47.880 to the FBI and they said, we need you to 0:42:48.520 --> 0:42:53.440 do something about the Johnson Grasley investigation because it's Russian disinformation. 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:59.320 Johnson gets ambushed by by the FBI walking down the corridor. 0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:02.120 His say, hey, there's a couple of SBI people in 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:05.439 your office. He goes back, say start talking to him 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:08.880 about his investigation and people involved in it saying warning 0:43:08.960 --> 0:43:12.400 him that Russia is trying to spread disinformation. He smelled 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:15.359 a rat immediately, he said, that's not true, and if 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.040 I see this in the media, I'll know that you 0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:21.200 are just setting me up. Sure enough, a day or 0:43:21.280 --> 0:43:24.680 two later, what happened. Story gets leaked to the media 0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:29.800 that the Johnson Gradually investigation has been polluted by Russian disinformation. 0:43:30.760 --> 0:43:33.120 We're talking to Miranda Vine New York Post. I mean, 0:43:33.160 --> 0:43:36.080 this to me is just incredibly compelling. And again I'm 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.920 just gonna keep saying. If they actually gave politzeers based 0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:43.400 on real news, then Miranda and her crew at the 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:45.799 New York Post should get all of them that were 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:49.200 given out for Russia collusion. They should be rescinded. I 0:43:49.239 --> 0:43:52.120 want to ask you a couple of questions here. Everything 0:43:52.440 --> 0:43:56.480 in these details is the exact same except instead of 0:43:56.560 --> 0:44:01.160 Hunter Biden, Donald Trump Jr. Is the one with the laptop. 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:05.120 How does the media cover it If Donald Trump Junior 0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:09.200 had been accused on a laptop of everything that Hunter 0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:12.480 Biden and Joe Biden, it's Donald Trump Junior and Donald 0:44:12.520 --> 0:44:16.839 Trump exact same details. Otherwise, this story has covered how 0:44:16.880 --> 0:44:20.960 in the United States media. It would have been wall 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:24.640 to wall, just like the Steel dossier, the Russia collusion 0:44:25.040 --> 0:44:31.160 anything um that it would have been true. Unlike those Yeah, exactly. 0:44:31.200 --> 0:44:34.160 So that's the irony is that they blew up and 0:44:34.280 --> 0:44:36.520 one pullets as the Washington Post and the New York 0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:40.440 Times one pullet surprises for their coverage of the Russia 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:44.520 collusion hoax, which was proven after a two year investigation 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:50.399 by Robert Mueller to be completely baseless and seeded by 0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:54.759 Hillary Clinton's campaign to start with. So it was a 0:44:54.840 --> 0:45:00.960 Democrat dirty tricks campaign that was aided in the by 0:45:01.320 --> 0:45:06.000 you know, shadowy forces within the intelligence agencies. Probably the 0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:10.320 same people covered up our story and covered up the 0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:15.319 Hunter Biden laptop, and it would have been everywhere. But 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:18.839 what we got instead was the opposite. This time, we 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:23.560 had four days, five days after our their story was published, 0:45:24.239 --> 0:45:29.839 there was this letter up one intelligence officials right who 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:33.719 say that this is all all Russian disinformation. Yet mostly 0:45:34.239 --> 0:45:37.880 they were former CIA and of course led by John Brennan, 0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:42.600 James Clapper, the usual truspect to perjured themselves in front 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.160 of Congress. Um. And these people, fifty one of them, 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.080 put the weight of their very high. I mean, I 0:45:48.080 --> 0:45:52.400 think there were four or five former CIA directors or 0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:55.359 acting CIA directors, and a whole lot of other very 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:59.400 high ranking former intelligence officials who should hang their heads 0:45:59.480 --> 0:46:03.919 in shame for putting their name to a scoreless letter 0:46:04.280 --> 0:46:09.200 that dishonestly said that the story that Hunter Biden's laptop 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:15.240 had all the earmarks of a Russian information operation in effect, 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:18.200 and the way that Politico, which was first leaked that 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:23.160 letter reported it was that this was a Russian disinformation operation. 0:46:23.200 --> 0:46:26.239 But of course they used weazel words since pretending that 0:46:26.280 --> 0:46:28.520 they weren't trying to convey that impression. Of course they were, 0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:33.200 and it killed the story, um Stone dead in terms 0:46:33.239 --> 0:46:35.880 of the rest of the media following it up. It 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:38.480 was a very convenient, figly for the media to say, oh, no, 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:42.200 we're not going to cover this, it's Russian propaganda and uh. 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:44.840 And then, of course, a couple of days later you 0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:48.200 had Joe Biden had to appear at that last debate 0:46:48.239 --> 0:46:52.400 against Donald Trump. Bad timing for him, because of course 0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:55.880 Donald Trump bought up the Hunter Biden laptop store in 0:46:56.000 --> 0:47:01.080 his meeting with the Ukrainian paymaster, and Joe Biden um 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:07.160 just used that letter from the one dirty intelligence operatives 0:47:07.200 --> 0:47:10.680 and said, you know, the intelligence community says that this 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:15.040 is just a Russian plant, and turned the books back 0:47:15.160 --> 0:47:17.440 on Donald Trump, and he got away with it. It 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:20.120 got him off the hook. He had gone to ground 0:47:20.840 --> 0:47:24.840 after our story, refused to answer questions hidden the basement, um, 0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:29.000 you know, ran away from any any questions. And after 0:47:29.080 --> 0:47:34.759 that debate, he really was home free. So, Miranda, and 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:38.439 by the way, the Russian disinformation why, I'm sure you've 0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:40.960 seen some of these reports, and I hope some of 0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:43.520 the people that are listening to us right now are 0:47:43.600 --> 0:47:47.439 finally seeing the light of day. But around fifty pc 0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.560 of people up to six I think I saw on 0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:55.960 a recent survey, actually still believe that this hoax, that 0:47:56.040 --> 0:47:59.080 this was a Russian disinformation hoax, and the Hunter Biden 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:02.600 laptop is all made up. How frustrating is it to you, 0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:06.839 not only that that argument was made, but that substantial 0:48:06.840 --> 0:48:10.680 portions of the American population believe that this is all 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:15.800 a farce, that this entire story is not true. Well, 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:19.040 I mean, it's incredibly frustrating. I mean, it's very depressing 0:48:19.080 --> 0:48:22.160 for America that that's happening. And it's not just on 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:25.080 the story it's on COVID, it's on Ukraine, it's on 0:48:25.120 --> 0:48:28.600 all sorts of things. And the reason is because they've 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:34.920 been propagandized by a completely corrupt establishment media. And I 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:37.600 count the New York Times, in the Washington Post there, 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:43.360 but you know also ABC, CBS, VIACOM, UM, CNN and 0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:47.279 the SNBC, etcetera. UM, they have a narrative. They have 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:55.000 hired as experts, as consultants. UM. These these totally discredited 0:48:55.640 --> 0:49:00.000 deep state people, whether it be Brennan or Clapper or um, 0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:05.640 you know, Peter Strock, Lisa Page. These people are treated 0:49:05.840 --> 0:49:10.680 as heroes on CNN and MSNBC and as experts whose 0:49:10.800 --> 0:49:16.400 whose word is impeccable. In fact, they lied and uh 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:21.000 and ran a complete propaganda mission. And on top of that, 0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:24.960 you have social media has just clamped down on the 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:28.000 truth about these stories. So you know, you you have 0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:32.360 at least half the country is ignorant. Um. They only believe, 0:49:32.600 --> 0:49:34.759 they believe everything that they read in the New York 0:49:34.760 --> 0:49:38.120 Times of the Washington Post. Um. And it's not just 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:42.279 in America. I know, you know from Australia that the 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:47.840 leading news organizations in Australia, UM, they they rely on 0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:50.560 the reporting from the New York Times. They regard that 0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:54.680 has been gold standard, and so they are completely ignorant 0:49:54.680 --> 0:49:57.879 about what's been going on in America when it comes 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:02.120 to Russia's collusion, Donald Trump, the Hunter Biden laptop, Joe 0:50:02.160 --> 0:50:05.839 Biden's corruption. Uh, they don't really know any of that. 0:50:06.160 --> 0:50:08.960 And that's the same across Europe and the rest of 0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:11.920 the world. I would say, because you're not getting your 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:15.839 information from social media, and you're not getting it from 0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:21.640 what it regarded internationally as the most credible news sources, 0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:24.719 because the New York Times and so on, resting on 0:50:24.800 --> 0:50:29.160 the laurels of their former reputations. What Miranda, when you 0:50:29.840 --> 0:50:32.719 now they're all suddenly coming out right, CBS, I think 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:34.520 that a story. I'm sure you kind of just arch 0:50:34.600 --> 0:50:36.840 your eyebrows up and they're like, oh, we did a 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:39.960 research project and we determined that the Hunter Biden laptop 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.360 is authentic. And then the New York Times they cover it, 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:46.439 and then Washington Post they all cover it years later. 0:50:47.080 --> 0:50:51.240 Is that validation for you or is it more frustration 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:55.280 for you when you see these stories being written years 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:59.600 after you had shared the truth? It's not not really 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:02.759 I it um, but uh, you know what I mean, 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:05.879 we know it's true. It doesn't matter whether they say 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.160 it is or it isn't. UM. I rolled my eyes 0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:11.160 a bit, but I'm glad that they've come on board. 0:51:11.239 --> 0:51:15.880 But I note always that um, that they're doing it. 0:51:15.880 --> 0:51:20.600 It's it's like a limited hangout. UM. They just put 0:51:20.600 --> 0:51:23.880 out enough information because they know it's coming out anyway. 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:27.120 They know their readers are starting to ask why don't 0:51:27.160 --> 0:51:30.799 we know about this? It's leaking across the sort of 0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:36.319 iron wall that they've built up between themselves and the truth. UM. 0:51:36.520 --> 0:51:41.640 And they know that Hunter Biden has been under investigation 0:51:41.680 --> 0:51:44.920 since eighteen by the U S Attorney in Delaware. They 0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:49.040 know the Grand Juries Um, you know, has has interviewed 0:51:49.160 --> 0:51:53.960 or had testified various important witnesses, former business partners of 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:56.839 Hunter Biden and so on. So they know that there's 0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:59.120 going to be a story and a possible indictment out 0:51:59.120 --> 0:52:01.080 of that, and they need to get ahead of the story. 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:06.600 That's why they've been, um, you know, saying that certain 0:52:06.640 --> 0:52:10.120 limited parts of the laptop are authentic. But they always 0:52:10.160 --> 0:52:15.240 put a boiler plate paragraph down eight or ten pars 0:52:15.239 --> 0:52:18.960 which paragraphs which says, um, you know there's no evidence 0:52:19.000 --> 0:52:23.080 that Joe Biden was involved. Well, that's just not true. 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:27.680 They now have the laptop. We've published voluminous information and 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:31.440 it's come from elsewhere of Joe Biden's involvement. Joe Biden 0:52:32.440 --> 0:52:36.200 told the American people during the campaign that he knew 0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:40.440 nothing about his son Hunter's overseas business dealings. Um, that's 0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:44.600 just palpably false. There's evidence that is now on the 0:52:44.640 --> 0:52:48.040 public record of his meeting with you. At least a 0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:51.400 dozen of Hunter Biden's formed the business partners. There's also 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:57.279 some evidence that I've published that Joe Biden financially benefited 0:52:57.360 --> 0:53:00.840 from Hunter Biden, that they were um, you know, shared 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:06.240 debit cards, mingled finances, um. And that Hunter was paying 0:53:06.280 --> 0:53:09.760 to some of the bills in Joe's at Joe's mansion, 0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:13.319 you know, the maintenance of a painting, new shutters, new 0:53:13.320 --> 0:53:16.200 air conditioning, and so on, because it's a very expensive 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:20.640 um estate to maintain. Um. And it was also paying 0:53:20.680 --> 0:53:23.880 for a cell phone for Joe Biden. I only have 0:53:24.000 --> 0:53:26.680 the tip of the iceberg. There's just a little bit 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:30.239 of information of that in the laptop. But I'm sure 0:53:30.320 --> 0:53:34.960 that the Republican investigators who have access to bank accounts 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.359 and so on. And that's important all that you're sharing there, 0:53:38.440 --> 0:53:42.279 because you actually and the New York Post did not 0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:48.120 cover as much of the sensational uh and ridiculous private 0:53:48.160 --> 0:53:51.000 life of Hunter Biden, right. I mean there's scatters of 0:53:51.080 --> 0:53:57.879 information on that laptop, nude videos, prostitution, the drug use. 0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:00.560 I mean, all of that is very so acious. But 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:03.680 you guys, by your nature, said, Okay, he's not the 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:07.600 candidate who's running. What we're really focusing on is Hunter 0:54:07.640 --> 0:54:13.600 Biden and Joe Biden's improper involvement in larger international affairs, 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:18.399 not on the personal peccadillos of a drug addict son. 0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:21.400 And I think that's important because there is an attack 0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:24.719 sometimes where they say, well, Hunter Biden doesn't have an 0:54:24.719 --> 0:54:27.680 elected office, why should we care about anything with him? Uh, 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:31.000 And they try to focus on the personal failings. You 0:54:31.040 --> 0:54:36.839 guys specifically avoided trying to sensationalize those. Yeah, we did, 0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:42.480 and deliberately so because I mean a because the evidence 0:54:42.560 --> 0:54:49.200 that Joe Biden was compromised by China, Russia, you know, Ukraine, 0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:54.600 these other countries was so bombshell that the fact that 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:57.880 his son was a crack addict and you know, spent 0:54:58.200 --> 0:55:02.040 millions of dollars on hookers and uh and drugs was 0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:05.000 kind of irrelevant. I mean, that's a you know, that's 0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:08.440 a salacious story, um, and ordinarily you'd run it. But 0:55:08.560 --> 0:55:12.480 because the corruption angle and the national security angle just 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:16.440 vastly overwhelmed that, we didn't want to have the two 0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:20.880 stories mixed up. We didn't want people to get distracted 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:24.160 by the pawn and the hookers and the crack um 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:27.839 and not see the real story. We ran, um, some 0:55:28.000 --> 0:55:30.439 pictures we ran, you know, obviously a photo a Hunter 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:33.840 Um with the crack pipe in his mouth asleep, and 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:36.840 a couple of other things like that, because um, that 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:41.480 was just showing visually what we had that we had, 0:55:41.520 --> 0:55:44.279 that this was really it's significant in the evidence to 0:55:44.320 --> 0:55:46.719 your point, yes, that it is real, right that these 0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.000 are Hunter Biden videos, and that it would be hard 0:55:49.040 --> 0:55:52.360 to fake. And that's why that's important. But you're reporting 0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:56.279 is on the significant nature of Joe Biden's involvement. And 0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:58.800 I think that's so important because you'll get attacked now 0:55:59.080 --> 0:56:01.719 as there is an anowledgement at the laptop is real, 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:03.920 some people will come out and say, well, why should 0:56:03.960 --> 0:56:06.279 we care about Hunter Biden. He's admitted he was a 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:10.200 drug addict because of his relationships with foreign countries and 0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:12.520 the way that has implicated his father, the President of 0:56:12.520 --> 0:56:16.600 the United States. Yes, and also the fact that he 0:56:16.680 --> 0:56:21.280 was a crack addict made it even more implausible that 0:56:21.840 --> 0:56:26.280 these foreign countries and these oligarchs would give him tens 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:30.279 of millions of dollars. He was his life was a 0:56:30.360 --> 0:56:34.120 complete mess during this period. He was incapable of even 0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:37.359 answering emails. For a lot of this. He'd go up 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:40.360 on vendors, he'd be in rehab, he'd come back and 0:56:40.400 --> 0:56:43.080 be compassed for a little while, and then he'd full 0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:47.279 off the wagon again. So, um, you know his personal life, 0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:51.680 you know his divorce, his affairs, his his his problems 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:54.520 were immense and so there was no way that he 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:58.920 was a proper businessman. And uh, you know that was 0:56:59.000 --> 0:57:02.880 important to to make the point as well. But again, 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:05.239 this is not a story. We never made it a 0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:08.840 story about Hunter Biden. It was always a story about 0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:12.560 Joe Biden. And that's something that James Comer, who's the 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:17.040 chairman of the Oversight Committee now Republican, is always making 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.200 that point that this is about Joe Biden. But it 0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:25.320 is a quite a a successful tactic by I guess 0:57:25.360 --> 0:57:29.720 the Biden apologists to continually push that point that you know, 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:33.680 Hunter Biden isn't running for office under Biden isn't the president. 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:35.800 You know, why don't you leave him alone? You know, 0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:39.240 he's had a terrible problem with addiction, and he's recovered, 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:42.000 and you're just tormenting him, and he's a human being 0:57:42.000 --> 0:57:43.840 and so on. No, I mean, I feel sorry for 0:57:43.920 --> 0:57:48.560 Hunter Biden, but the fact is his laptop is a 0:57:48.600 --> 0:57:54.800 peep hole into a longstanding corruption problem that the man 0:57:54.880 --> 0:57:58.080 who is now the president has had for over four decades. 0:57:58.160 --> 0:58:02.160 As a very influential center stuff from Delaware, head of 0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:06.480 the Foreign Relations Committee duchess by China in his very 0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:11.400 earliest days back in the seventies, he was um, you know, 0:58:11.520 --> 0:58:15.360 pinpointed by the Chinese Communist Party as a as a 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.680 likely ally. They invited him to China. Was one of 0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:20.800 the first delegations to go over there. He went to 0:58:20.840 --> 0:58:24.040 the equivalent of Martha's vineyards. He came back. He was 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:28.600 so embarrassing in his effusive praise of China that the 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:31.480 Weekly Standard at the time just made a mockery of him. 0:58:31.960 --> 0:58:36.440 Uh and and as a Senator Um. He was instrumental 0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:41.200 during the Clinton years in getting his reluctant Democrat colleagues 0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:47.200 to agree to China joining the World Trade Organization. I 0:58:47.200 --> 0:58:50.000 think it was in near two thousand one, and that 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:56.760 had a really terrible effect on the American working class, 0:58:56.760 --> 0:59:00.800 from American manufacturing on on the American center at which 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:04.040 lasts obviously to this day. So that was Joe Biden. 0:59:04.240 --> 0:59:08.680 And he's always carried water for China, boasted always about 0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:12.320 his hours of face to face time with President Jujuing 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:17.200 ping Um. And so I just I just think that 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:23.320 that story is terrifying for America. And we know now 0:59:24.160 --> 0:59:29.760 right to this present day, the classified documents scandal revolving 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:34.160 around Joe Biden now links uh and I think this 0:59:34.320 --> 0:59:39.320 is why he's been so panicky. It links him to 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:44.840 the Hunter Biden investigation that's been going on in Delaware, because, um, 0:59:45.040 --> 0:59:48.960 there there are there are items in that laptop that 0:59:49.240 --> 0:59:53.720 could well appear to be only could have come from 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.320 classified information. And I'm not going to go too far 0:59:57.400 --> 0:59:59.959 with that because I don't know for sure, but I've 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:04.680 published this week an email from the laptop that Hunter 1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:09.400 Biden had written to his business partner Devon Archer UM, 1:00:09.440 --> 1:00:13.480 and it was an uncharacteristic email. It was very long, 1:00:14.080 --> 1:00:18.480 it was very detail, very informed. UM. It listed twenty 1:00:18.480 --> 1:00:23.800 two points about Ukraine's political situation and had detailed information 1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:29.920 geo political strategic information predicting an escalation of Rush's destabilation. 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:33.840 Destabilization came bang talking about you know, natural gas, what 1:00:33.880 --> 1:00:37.480 will happen with energy prices in the UK, etcetera. And 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:42.080 that all comes to the fore when you know, UM 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:46.040 that in that first tranche of classified documents discovered at 1:00:46.040 --> 1:00:50.680 the University of Pennsylvania in Joe Biden's office. UM, we're 1:00:50.760 --> 1:00:55.800 told by sources who told CNN that those related to Ukraine, 1:00:56.160 --> 1:00:59.360 to the United Kingdom and to Iran. And so two 1:00:59.400 --> 1:01:03.600 of those trees are mentioned in this uh. You know 1:01:03.760 --> 1:01:10.040 this this email that stands out because it's unlike anything 1:01:10.080 --> 1:01:13.080 that Hunter Biden has written in the nine years of 1:01:13.240 --> 1:01:19.000 this UM this laptop. It coincides with he's just about 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:23.480 to join the Barisma board, as Devon Archer is, and 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:27.640 his father is just about days away from going on 1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:32.320 his first trip to or an early trip to the Ukraine, 1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:36.600 and presumably Joe Biden got a classified briefing on the 1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:41.200 situation in Ukraine before he went and Hunters email to 1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:45.640 Devon Archer has a distinct flavor on an official briefing 1:01:45.680 --> 1:01:49.600 and maybe even a classified briefing. Fox Sports Radio has 1:01:49.640 --> 1:01:52.560 the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all 1:01:52.600 --> 1:01:55.800 of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and 1:01:56.000 --> 1:01:58.560 within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s are 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:02.360 to listen live. Miranda Divine is with us. I'm Clay Travis. 1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:06.080 This is wins and Losses. You have a master of journalism. 1:02:06.120 --> 1:02:09.560 You've been in journalism for decades. What does it say 1:02:09.560 --> 1:02:13.480 about the state of United States journalism that the New 1:02:13.520 --> 1:02:16.640 York Times and the Washington Post. Let's use those two 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:19.560 for example, because they consider themselves to be the paragon 1:02:19.600 --> 1:02:22.960 of the journalistic establishment. You've referred to both here. They 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:25.600 put democracy dyes in darkness at the top of the 1:02:25.600 --> 1:02:28.840 Washington Post. For God's sakes. When Donald Trump was elected, 1:02:29.160 --> 1:02:31.640 the New York Times all the news that's fit to print. 1:02:32.240 --> 1:02:34.680 What does it say about those two lions of the 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:39.320 liberal establishment that they wouldn't cover this story, that they 1:02:39.360 --> 1:02:44.840 would consider this to be unworthy of contemplation by their 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:50.240 audience in the lead up to a election. Well, I 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:54.400 think it tells you that they have been thoroughly corrupted. UM. 1:02:54.400 --> 1:02:56.600 And you know, I mean people will say, well, of 1:02:56.640 --> 1:02:58.800 course she's going to say that because their arrivals. But 1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:02.360 I think any fair assessment of the way that they 1:03:02.360 --> 1:03:06.560 have handled themselves since at least since Donald Trump came 1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:12.600 on the scene, UM publishing false stories, publishing anonymous anonymously 1:03:12.760 --> 1:03:21.480 sourced from obviously intelligence sources that were planting misinformation, disinformation. UM. 1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:26.960 They have they have swallowed hook line and sinker that 1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:34.560 the whole far left cultural ideology. But they've also obviously 1:03:34.600 --> 1:03:39.680 there's been a decision made to UM to just fall 1:03:39.760 --> 1:03:43.560 in and lose their skepticism when it comes to any 1:03:43.640 --> 1:03:46.600 dirt that they were provided when it came to Donald Trump, 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:52.280 and then become pure as the driven snow, and very 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:55.280 skeptical when it comes to any information that's derogatory about 1:03:55.360 --> 1:04:00.040 Joe Biden, even if that information is backed up a 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:04.040 thousand different ways. They have never done a proper investigation 1:04:04.600 --> 1:04:08.840 of the laptop. Never. The Washington Post talks about having 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:12.720 authenticated some of it, but even then, the copy of 1:04:12.760 --> 1:04:16.800 the hard drive that they have came through a very 1:04:16.920 --> 1:04:21.720 suspect avenue. It cannot suspect, but it came from. It 1:04:21.760 --> 1:04:24.280 didn't come direct They didn't get one directly from John 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:27.280 Paul Maciaac. They got a copy of the hard drive 1:04:27.600 --> 1:04:29.880 that had gone through several hands to do with a 1:04:29.920 --> 1:04:32.800 guy called Jack Maxie and who you know, and people 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:36.800 who people who had copied it and added things to it, 1:04:36.880 --> 1:04:40.400 and you know, and that gives the Washington Post um 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:42.600 a sort of get out of jail free card because 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:45.640 they can say, well, you know, the chain of custody 1:04:45.680 --> 1:04:49.160 on and this isn't very good because the hard drive 1:04:49.240 --> 1:04:52.920 that they've chosen to base their reporting on is not 1:04:53.200 --> 1:04:57.439 the snow white, crystal clear original hard drive that John 1:04:57.480 --> 1:05:00.760 Paul mac Isaac gave us. And so it's almost like 1:05:00.840 --> 1:05:03.160 they're setting themselves up with a sort of a back 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:06.760 door to get away with it. It just seems otherwise 1:05:06.800 --> 1:05:10.560 it's just incredibly sloppy reporting, because John Paul Maciaac would 1:05:10.560 --> 1:05:13.080 have given them a copy. Um and jomp On mac 1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:16.320 Isaac's now written a book. He's put in there a 1:05:16.400 --> 1:05:20.520 lot of detail about um, you know, his interactions with 1:05:20.560 --> 1:05:24.040 the FBI, and some of that's quite sinister. Now. When 1:05:24.080 --> 1:05:27.160 he told me about how he felt that the FBI 1:05:27.240 --> 1:05:29.520 agents who came and took the laptop and a copy 1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:33.440 of the hard drive from him back in December twenty nine. 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:36.240 He felt that they were threatening him or warning him 1:05:36.560 --> 1:05:38.880 to keep his mouth shut. And I thought, oh, you know, 1:05:39.000 --> 1:05:41.400 he's he's just a bit paranoid, as a lot of 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:44.320 whistleblowers are, because they get scared and they haven't been 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:47.720 haven't dealt with law enforcement before, and and they get 1:05:47.760 --> 1:05:51.080 frightened and um, and they've seen too many movies. So 1:05:51.160 --> 1:05:53.200 that's what I thought, So I dismissed. I didn't him 1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:56.560 write what he said. UM, But with the benefit of 1:05:56.640 --> 1:05:59.840 hindsight now and now seeing from the whistleblowers from the 1:06:00.000 --> 1:06:03.800 would have filed um just how dirty the elements of 1:06:03.840 --> 1:06:08.040 the FBI were, certainly the Washington Field office. I now 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:13.920 really believe that he his his instincts were right, because 1:06:14.040 --> 1:06:17.400 when those FBI agents were leaving him with the laptop, 1:06:17.920 --> 1:06:21.200 one of them turned and said to him, in our experience, 1:06:21.480 --> 1:06:25.480 nothing bad happens to people who don't talk, and he 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:28.480 just that just disquieted him, And as he thought about it, 1:06:28.560 --> 1:06:30.160 he thought, well, that was a warning for me not 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:32.960 to talk. And I think they thought that he wouldn't talk. 1:06:33.440 --> 1:06:37.040 And because they took the laptop, but plus the hard 1:06:37.120 --> 1:06:39.720 drive that he'd made a copy of. They must have 1:06:39.760 --> 1:06:42.680 thought that that was it, that they had everything. They 1:06:42.680 --> 1:06:46.600 didn't realize he'd made another copy. Because he made a copy, Miranda, 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:48.880 they would have buried the story and claimed that this 1:06:48.960 --> 1:06:53.520 laptop basically never existed exactly, because that's what they've done. 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:57.320 We haven't heard from the laptop. When I think it 1:06:57.400 --> 1:07:01.080 was Senator Grassley or another senator asked, um, someone at 1:07:01.080 --> 1:07:05.040 the FBI in a hearing under oath, where is the laptop? 1:07:05.080 --> 1:07:10.120 They couldn't answer. Um. They they have. They have effectively 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:15.000 canceled the laptop. They've canceled Tony Bobolynski. Tony Bobolynsky, you 1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:19.080 would think would be a prime witness for the grand 1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:23.320 jury that's going on in Delaware looking at Hunter Biden's services, 1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:27.560 business dealings, and Um, he knew all about the China, 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:32.080 one of these China deals, and that he's never been subpoena, 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:35.960 he's never been called as a witch. It's crazy, Uh, Miranda. 1:07:36.240 --> 1:07:39.959 You mentioned John Paul Maciaac being feared for his safety. 1:07:40.080 --> 1:07:42.360 Have you feared for your safety at all during the 1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:48.360 reporting on this laptop? Um, Look, it's it's run through 1:07:48.480 --> 1:07:52.480 my mind, but you know, I don't. I'm not I'm 1:07:52.520 --> 1:07:55.360 not too worried. No, but who knows. You're not suicidal. 1:07:55.440 --> 1:07:57.960 You're not contemplating death, by the way, for everybody out 1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:02.160 there listening right now. Correct, No, exactly exactly. You're not 1:08:02.200 --> 1:08:05.360 planning on jumping off a bridge. You're not planning on 1:08:05.360 --> 1:08:11.200 on vanishing for everybody out there. You're you're of sound mind, exactly. 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:13.800 And I think there's so much of the story out 1:08:13.840 --> 1:08:15.920 now that it's impossible to put the genie back in 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:19.479 the bottle. So it wouldn't really serve anyone. Uh any 1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:25.519 any use to to boss me? Now? You mentioned Carl Allen, 1:08:25.640 --> 1:08:27.880 and I just want to circle back around again to 1:08:28.280 --> 1:08:30.120 what I would consider to be the bravery of the 1:08:30.160 --> 1:08:32.160 New York Post to cover this, because I mentioned I 1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:33.880 don't think the Times would write it. I don't think 1:08:33.880 --> 1:08:36.559 the Post would write it. Um I I obviously people 1:08:36.560 --> 1:08:38.880 can say, oh were you? Look out Kicks sold last 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:41.920 year to Fox. I do a lot of Fox News. 1:08:42.040 --> 1:08:44.600 I'm not a Fox News employee. For radio. This is 1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:47.800 an I Heeart production, this is not Fox. But in 1:08:47.880 --> 1:08:51.439 my experience with Fox, no one and I've met Rupert 1:08:51.439 --> 1:08:53.680 and Lochlan and everybody else. No one at Fox has 1:08:53.720 --> 1:08:57.559 ever told me, hey, don't talk about this, don't share 1:08:57.600 --> 1:08:59.880 your opinion on X or Y. That just doesn't have 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:03.160 upen in my experience. I bet it is similar for 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.160 you as well. What was it like working for Carl Allen? 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:09.479 How important is it that the New York Post exists? 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.640 Because who else is willing to even have the resources 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:17.360 and frankly, the testicular fortitude to actually write a story 1:09:17.479 --> 1:09:21.280 like this that could create the massive uh you know, 1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:26.200 blowback like it did. Yeah, you put your finger right 1:09:26.280 --> 1:09:28.880 on really the most important part of this, which is 1:09:28.960 --> 1:09:32.160 that you know, as a journalist, it's very easy. You know, 1:09:32.240 --> 1:09:36.400 you you're health leather excited about a story. Uh you know, 1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:39.840 you think it's real, You've done your work on it. 1:09:39.880 --> 1:09:43.560 But it's going to be a huge bombshell and potentially 1:09:43.600 --> 1:09:46.720 blow up the election. Uh and you know what if 1:09:46.720 --> 1:09:48.880 it's wrong and it blows up in your face, that 1:09:49.000 --> 1:09:52.559 you have huge ramisfications for the newspaper and the company. 1:09:52.960 --> 1:09:57.280 So that decision um to be made by you know, 1:09:57.320 --> 1:09:59.679 the top editors, and Carl Allen was at the top 1:10:00.160 --> 1:10:05.479 um of the New York Post was incredibly courageous and uh, 1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:09.559 but you know I've known him and worked for him 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:14.040 off and on, um for gosh, almost thirty years. I 1:10:14.479 --> 1:10:18.519 had my first child when I was a baby editor 1:10:18.920 --> 1:10:22.400 under him, and um, he's always been like the walls 1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:26.120 of steel. Um. He's one of the real old school 1:10:26.479 --> 1:10:30.720 newspaper editors. Uh and just you know, hasn't has a 1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:33.960 nose for a story. He's as canny as they come, 1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:40.080 street wise, can smell bullshit a million yards off. He's 1:10:40.120 --> 1:10:42.479 incredible and he's the best editor I've ever worked for. 1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:47.439 Lauren he Um, he just you know, he just he's willing. 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:50.240 He knows that all he cares about is the story. 1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:53.679 You know, if the story is a great story, without 1:10:53.720 --> 1:10:56.880 fear of favorite, doesn't matter whether it's helpful to to 1:10:57.040 --> 1:10:59.640 the Republicans or the Democrats. He's just going to go 1:10:59.760 --> 1:11:02.479 for He loves it. And that's what anyone who's a 1:11:02.520 --> 1:11:06.519 real newspaper person, Um, that's what that's what they're about. 1:11:06.560 --> 1:11:09.400 It's not really being a media person's being a journalist, 1:11:09.439 --> 1:11:14.600 particularly old school newspaper reporter. And um, you know, I 1:11:14.600 --> 1:11:16.760 I grew up my father was one of them. Um. 1:11:16.800 --> 1:11:18.680 Cole Allen was one of them. I just grew up 1:11:19.560 --> 1:11:25.120 admiring and respecting those old school newspaper men, and most 1:11:25.160 --> 1:11:27.320 of them were men, and uh, and you know, it's 1:11:27.520 --> 1:11:30.360 it's a long gone era. And I think Cole's sort 1:11:30.400 --> 1:11:33.919 of the last of those, um, those people, because obviously 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:38.240 the Internet has changed everything. But anyway, Cole's just amazing 1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:40.320 and it never would have happened without him. And he 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:43.920 trusted me, and I trusted him, and that is because 1:11:44.160 --> 1:11:48.920 we had many years of working together. Miranda. I come 1:11:48.960 --> 1:11:52.720 back to this big question. Why was the FBI so 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:56.519 afraid of Donald Trump? Why was the New York Times 1:11:56.640 --> 1:12:00.160 so afraid of Donald Trump? Why was the Washington was 1:12:00.200 --> 1:12:03.360 so afraid of Donald Trump that they were willing to 1:12:03.479 --> 1:12:08.439 rig elections against him? I'm sure in the back of 1:12:08.439 --> 1:12:10.599 your mind you have thought a lot about this too, 1:12:10.640 --> 1:12:14.840 because ultimately someone at the FBI had to make the 1:12:14.960 --> 1:12:19.160 choice to engage in this rig job, right, And maybe 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:21.759 it's a group of people. What I can never quite 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:24.720 put my finger on is what did they find so 1:12:24.880 --> 1:12:31.160 terrifying about this guy? Well, it was that they couldn't 1:12:31.160 --> 1:12:36.839 control him. Um. If you remember, Um, there was a 1:12:36.920 --> 1:12:41.360 Chinese professor after the election, a video that he had 1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:45.160 made leaked out and was soon quickly wiped off YouTube. 1:12:45.240 --> 1:12:48.000 But he in that said he was very close to 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:54.360 in the hierarchy. And in that video he said, Donald Trump, 1:12:54.400 --> 1:12:56.760 you know, we've always in China had our friends in 1:12:56.840 --> 1:13:01.759 Wall Street, but not but Wall Street could not control Trump. 1:13:02.240 --> 1:13:06.360 And that's the essence of it, Wall Street meaning really 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:11.040 the establishment politicians because that's where the money comes from. 1:13:11.200 --> 1:13:17.559 And um, the you know, Donald Trump was completely just. 1:13:17.680 --> 1:13:20.120 He was just America first. He didn't want to go 1:13:20.160 --> 1:13:24.400 into wars. He wanted to end the war in Afghanistan. UM. 1:13:24.400 --> 1:13:27.160 He was a threat to the what Eisenhow called the 1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:32.720 military industrial complex. UM, really an existential threat. And so 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:36.040 you know there's a lot of gravy trains in Washington 1:13:36.720 --> 1:13:40.839 are hitched to to that wagon to having endless wars. 1:13:41.640 --> 1:13:45.400 And that was one part of it. Also his belligerence 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:49.519 towards China, which you know a lot of the elites 1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:53.840 they make their money from China, and he made it 1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:56.799 crystal clear that he was going to screw them over 1:13:56.960 --> 1:13:59.479 or make things fear screw them over when it came 1:13:59.520 --> 1:14:03.799 to trade deals. All of that got derailed with COVID, 1:14:04.080 --> 1:14:08.560 which came from China. UM and then in their cultural project, 1:14:08.800 --> 1:14:13.160 you know, the woke ideology again, Um he was. He 1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:17.920 was blowing that up. And so in every aspect of 1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:24.640 Washington bureaucracy, the administrative state, he was starting to dismantle it. 1:14:24.960 --> 1:14:29.360 Even even with the economy, you know, his tax cuts 1:14:29.400 --> 1:14:34.520 and sign which proved to be successful and fuelled the economy. Um, 1:14:35.200 --> 1:14:38.760 nearly part of his until covid Um. That also was 1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:42.599 a rebuke to the kind of norms of you know, 1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:48.960 economic sort of norms in Washington where um he was. 1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:52.680 He was just challenging all those norms. And he was 1:14:52.760 --> 1:14:56.559 also an embarrassment to them. I guests just with his 1:14:56.680 --> 1:15:02.000 domeanor but they you know, they talked that up. Um. 1:15:02.120 --> 1:15:05.240 And also, I mean the fact is Donald Trump's no saint, 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:08.400 He's no angel. He Um. He has a sort of 1:15:08.400 --> 1:15:13.320 shambolic appearance. People were embarrassed by him. Um. He was 1:15:13.360 --> 1:15:17.320 a little bit to queens for the stuck up people 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:21.760 in the state department and in in Washington. Um. And 1:15:21.840 --> 1:15:25.080 so I think in every way he offended their sensibilities, 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:31.320 He challenged their um financial under pinnings and and really 1:15:31.840 --> 1:15:36.320 their power base. He challenged their power and so he 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:39.519 became an existential threat to the people who really run 1:15:39.600 --> 1:15:42.960 this country. UM, we're talking to Miranda Divine, and I 1:15:43.000 --> 1:15:45.200 hope you will share this conversation because I think it's 1:15:45.200 --> 1:15:48.880 super important, especially if the people you may be friends 1:15:48.920 --> 1:15:52.000 or family with are in thet of population out there 1:15:52.439 --> 1:15:55.639 that just doesn't understand the Hunter Biden story, the laptop 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:58.880 and has bought into this Russian disinformation argument put out 1:15:58.880 --> 1:16:02.479 by so many people in positions of power. Um, a 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:04.320 lot of people who are listening to us right now 1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:07.080 are red pilled. And I think that metaphor works so 1:16:07.120 --> 1:16:10.519 well because it is true, Miranda, and I'm sure you've 1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:14.240 experienced this now too, that once you start to pull 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:17.559 the thread here, you recognize how deep some of these 1:16:17.600 --> 1:16:21.800 conspiracies go. And if we're really going to be a 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:25.640 functioning democracy, it's not things like January six. That's a 1:16:25.720 --> 1:16:29.280 symptom of the dishonesty that I think many people in 1:16:29.320 --> 1:16:33.559 this country innately feel from their leadership. Right And and 1:16:33.600 --> 1:16:38.160 I give you tremendous credit because, without worrying about who 1:16:38.200 --> 1:16:41.799 you were going to antagonize, you simply pursued the truth. 1:16:42.080 --> 1:16:44.880 And I think you have told the I think it's 1:16:44.880 --> 1:16:48.120 a more important story. I really do than Watergate, And 1:16:48.120 --> 1:16:50.439 it's symptomatic of where our country has gone that the 1:16:50.479 --> 1:16:53.960 Washington Post, which published the Pentagon Papers and was willing 1:16:54.000 --> 1:16:58.040 to pursue Watergate, just pretends that this story basically doesn't 1:16:58.040 --> 1:17:03.120 exist because it directly attacks their base. Which again, this 1:17:03.200 --> 1:17:04.840 is a bigger picture story. But I think this has 1:17:04.880 --> 1:17:07.240 a lot to do with the subscription model and the 1:17:07.240 --> 1:17:09.200 fact that the New York Times and the Washington Post 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:12.639 basically make their money off far left wing people now 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:16.639 and they can't antagonize that base without threatening to destroy 1:17:16.760 --> 1:17:20.559 the essence of their business. And even more than that, 1:17:20.600 --> 1:17:23.480 I think there may be something sinister about the subscription 1:17:23.520 --> 1:17:27.160 model that they have. UM. You know, you look at, 1:17:27.360 --> 1:17:31.000 for instance, the New York Times, I think the numbers 1:17:31.000 --> 1:17:34.400 of things like nine million subscribers they have, uh. And 1:17:34.560 --> 1:17:38.800 you know, when the Internet Internet came into being, um 1:17:38.880 --> 1:17:45.200 and basically stole the revenue base of these incredibly lucrative newspapers, UM, 1:17:45.240 --> 1:17:48.120 they had to find another source of income or collapse. 1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:50.679 And many newspapers, as you know, across the country collapsed. 1:17:51.040 --> 1:17:56.080 And so for those papers, subscription models became everything for them, 1:17:56.120 --> 1:17:59.200 and for the New York Times, incredibly successful and you know, 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:01.880 when you think about it. I spent a lot of 1:18:01.920 --> 1:18:05.680 time reading the comments on columns and stories on the 1:18:05.720 --> 1:18:08.000 Washington Post in the New York Times, and they have 1:18:08.040 --> 1:18:11.559 a certain sameness to them which is reminiscent of the 1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:15.880 sort of botch activity that you get in on Twitter. Um. 1:18:16.000 --> 1:18:21.599 And so I started suspecting that, um, that a lot 1:18:21.640 --> 1:18:23.640 of these subscriptions because you know, you can get a 1:18:23.680 --> 1:18:25.639 subscription to the New York Times when they do their 1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:29.439 deals for a dollar, So it would not cost very 1:18:29.520 --> 1:18:33.320 much for the same people who are buying bots on 1:18:33.360 --> 1:18:38.519 Twitter to buy, you know, thousands of subscriptions and then 1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:43.479 set their people onto writing the narrative in the comments. 1:18:43.840 --> 1:18:46.920 And then when you take that one step further. And 1:18:46.960 --> 1:18:48.840 we don't know this because the New York Times the 1:18:48.880 --> 1:18:52.720 Washington Post don't tell us who their subscribers are, but 1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:57.400 there are bulk subscriptions, and um, some of these bolk subscriptions. 1:18:57.439 --> 1:19:01.680 There is suggestion brought up by China and other of 1:19:01.680 --> 1:19:05.840 our adversaries overseas, and I believe that the Republicans will 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:10.240 be looking into that. Oh, that's fascinating as well. Uh. I. 1:19:10.400 --> 1:19:12.559 When I was practicing attorney Miranda and I appreciate all 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:14.519 your time. I know how busy you are. I think 1:19:14.520 --> 1:19:16.960 that's gonna be compelling listening for so many people out there. 1:19:17.479 --> 1:19:21.679 I used to always end my my depositions UM by saying, 1:19:21.760 --> 1:19:23.360 what do you wish that I had asked you that 1:19:23.400 --> 1:19:25.559 I didn't? Is there something else you'd like to say 1:19:25.560 --> 1:19:28.400 to this audience that I didn't give you the opportunity 1:19:28.520 --> 1:19:31.080 to close with that you think is important that they 1:19:31.120 --> 1:19:37.120 might need to know. Not Really, you've been incredibly uh 1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:41.280 forensic and your questioning. UM. The only thing I guess 1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:47.040 I just leave with is that for four decades, Joe 1:19:47.040 --> 1:19:51.040 Biden has sort of traded on this mythology that he's 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:54.400 honest Joe, that he's a family man, he's a devout Catholic, 1:19:54.960 --> 1:20:00.519 um that you know, his entire career was wounded on 1:20:01.320 --> 1:20:04.160 a terrible tragedy where his wife and his baby daughter 1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:07.719 were killed in a car accident that injured his two sons, 1:20:07.880 --> 1:20:13.439 Hunter and Bo Biden, and he used the photograph of 1:20:13.520 --> 1:20:17.040 himself being sworn in at their hospital bed, these two 1:20:17.160 --> 1:20:21.559 bandaged injured boys in the foreground um as the basis 1:20:21.600 --> 1:20:26.080 of his campaigns ever since, and that elicited a lot 1:20:26.080 --> 1:20:30.080 of sympathy across the country. But then when I started 1:20:30.120 --> 1:20:32.360 doing the book, I thought, what kind of a man, 1:20:33.400 --> 1:20:36.240 you know, why did he have to get sworn in 1:20:36.240 --> 1:20:40.240 inside the hospital room? Such a great question. Even at 1:20:40.280 --> 1:20:43.720 that time of great tragedy and grief, he had his 1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:48.360 eye on the political payoff. And and then later on, 1:20:48.479 --> 1:20:51.280 you know, I'm thinking he knew that his son Hunter 1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:55.200 had an alcohol and drug abuse problem. I mean, Hunter 1:20:55.280 --> 1:20:58.400 was arrested when he was eighteen. He he was a 1:20:58.400 --> 1:21:02.479 troubled song and uh, and what kind of a father, 1:21:02.680 --> 1:21:06.719 knowing his son is a terrible addict, puts him, makes 1:21:06.800 --> 1:21:09.640 him the bag man, and puts him in front of 1:21:10.120 --> 1:21:14.920 this unaccountable tient of cash from Barisma as well as 1:21:14.960 --> 1:21:21.040 everything else. Um. You know, I just my entire I 1:21:22.240 --> 1:21:24.760 used too many years ago. I think I'm Catholic. I 1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:28.200 thought Joe Biden was an Irish Catholic, sort of tribally 1:21:28.640 --> 1:21:32.960 like my people. Um. But but over time I've come 1:21:33.000 --> 1:21:37.479 to see him as a very sinister figure. And I 1:21:37.520 --> 1:21:41.280 think that his legacy, if nothing else comes out of 1:21:41.280 --> 1:21:44.439 all of this, I think that at least his legacy 1:21:44.520 --> 1:21:47.360 will be seen honestly, and that he will be seen 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:51.599 as one of the most malign people to become president. 1:21:52.880 --> 1:21:56.479 Miranda Divine, you deserve all the Politzers. I appreciate all 1:21:56.520 --> 1:21:58.719 the work that you have done. I appreciate the time today. 1:21:58.760 --> 1:22:00.760 I would encourage people to go all of you at 1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:03.840 Miranda Divine. If they want more details, I would tell 1:22:03.880 --> 1:22:06.599 them to go buy your book Laptop from Hell. And 1:22:06.880 --> 1:22:09.639 we appreciate your time. Keep up your good work and 1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:14.599 given what the FBI is up to, stay healthy. Thanks 1:22:14.640 --> 1:22:18.600 so look, Clay, I'm Clay Travis. This has been Thank you. 1:22:18.640 --> 1:22:21.040 I'm Clay Travis. This has been wins and losses. She 1:22:21.120 --> 1:22:23.680 was Miranda Divine. This was a lot of fun. I 1:22:23.760 --> 1:22:26.280 hope you guys will share and listen to more episodes.