1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to Fox Sports for you, Welcome in Wins 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: and Losses. I'm your host, Clay Travis. We are joined 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: now by Miranda Divine of The New York Post. You 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: may have heard her interviewed on Clay and Buck some 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: over the past few years. You certainly have probably seen 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: her on Fox News. I believe they should rescind all 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: of the Russia Collusion Politzer Prizes and give them to her. 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Um And during the course of this conversation, I bet 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: you're going to end up agreeing with me. So thank 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: you to Miranda for joining us. And Miranda, before we 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: dive into your book, Laptop from Hell, the whole New 12 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: York Post story, all of that, what's your background? How 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: did you come to be writing for the New York Post? Uh? 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: Where did you grow up? What is your journalism background? 15 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: Kind of let people know more about you. Honestly, I 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: would like to know too. I'm not that expert on 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: on your past history here. Well, Clay, thanks for having 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: me and um I suppose it will be confusing to 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: tell you that I was born in Jamaica, Queens, even 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: though the accent is obviously not from there, and my 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: parents were journalists here, and then we moved to Tokyo, 22 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: where I spent six years at an American school and 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: they had a very strong American accent. And then we 24 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: moved to Australia, which is my parents or my mother's homeland, 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: and I got an Australian accent overnight pretty much. And um, 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: then I did a mass degree as a as a detour, 27 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: and always wanted to be a journalist, and my parents 28 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: had said no, no, don't do it, but I ended 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: up they were back in America. My father was um 30 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: working to the Reader's Digest, he was an editor there, 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: and UM, I ended up coming back here to go 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: to Northwestern University. I did a journalism degree or master's 33 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: um to one year, and then I bounced around a 34 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: bit and ended up at the Boston Herald and where 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: I spent a very pleasant couple of years three years, 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: and then I went back to Australia, got married, spent 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: twenty years there, pretty much raised our sons um and 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: then my editor at the time and the newspaper was 39 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: at in Sydney, was transferred to New York to become 40 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: editor of the New York Post, Carl Allen, and he 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: was the legendary editor in Australia and then here um, 42 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: and he at the end of his tenure, he said 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: to me, why don't you come over and just come 44 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: over for eighteen months covered the election and that was 45 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty election. So I came here in and 46 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: basically the post minister. So we've been here ever since. Okay, So, 47 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: first of all, Australia, and this is a stupid American question. 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna be married and unless my wife leaves me 49 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: in the next year, which is always possible. Um, we're 50 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: gonna hit twenty years. We've got three boys. Everything else. 51 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: Before we even dive into the New York Post story, 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: if I were going to Australia for two weeks and 53 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: I was taking my family fourteen twelve, eight, three boys, 54 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: where would you say you should fly into Where would 55 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: you say you absolutely have to see? Like if I 56 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: had two weeks to go to Australia because I'm thinking 57 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: about taking my wife on our twentieth wedding anniversary and 58 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: I've always wanted to go, I've never been, what would 59 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: you say as an Australian to me an American who's 60 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: never been before, you absolutely have to see this well, 61 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm biased because the city that I've spent the most 62 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: time in his Sydney, and it's absolutely beautiful. Um. But 63 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: with your kids, I would definitely take them up to Queensland, 64 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: to the Gold Coast. There are a lot of you know, 65 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: sort of Disney World Star style placed absolutely stunning beaches. Um. 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: And then you can go further north and into some 67 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: pretty wild sort of crocodile country and meet some aboriginals 68 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: and um, and you know, go into sort of out 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: back Australia, which is pretty cool. I mean, if you 70 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: could get onto a station and out back station, um, 71 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: you know, a huge like a huge cattle ranch sort 72 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: of thing, but we're probably cheap, um, that would be 73 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: an amazing experience. But I would also say, if you've 74 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: got two weeks, you should, um explore the region. So 75 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: go to New Zealand go to a place called Queenstown, 76 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: which is just absolutely spectacularly beautiful. Um. So yeah's my advice. 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: All right, that's on my that's on my list. I 78 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: literally jotted all of that down as you were talking. 79 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: I bet there's a lot of other Americans who similarly 80 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: would love to take a trip to Australia and also 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: maybe New Zealand, although it's been so crazy during COVID 82 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: in both places that kind of turned me off a 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: little bit. UM. But I want to now dive into 84 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: So you come to the United States in UH to 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: work at the New York Post. We know, and this 86 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: is kind of putting the time frame out there, and 87 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: it certainly jump in and correct me if at any 88 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: point I'm wrong. In December of the Joe Biden son, 89 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden's laptop is turned over to the FBI. Right 90 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: the John Paul, the laptop repairman, says that Hunter Biden, 91 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: he thinks he's not gonna have great vision, shows up 92 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: with this laptop, turns it into him to get repaired. UH. 93 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: And while it is there it is UH. He comes 94 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: and becomes aware of what's on this laptop, contacts the 95 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: FBI after Hunter Biden doesn't show up, doesn't pay for it, 96 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: doesn't come back to reclaim it, and shares it with 97 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: the FBI. In December, you become aware that this laptop exists, 98 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: allegedly exists, let's say at the time. When when do 99 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: you first become aware, Hey, this thing is out there. 100 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: Not until the beginning of October when I got a 101 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: series of text messages from Rudy Giuliani's lawyer Bob Costello, 102 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: and uh Rudy Giuliani had been UM sent them the 103 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: sort of hard drive, the copy of the laptop UM 104 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: in August. So um this this is now nine months 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: after John Paul mac Isaac has handed over the device 106 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: the laptop to the FBI, but very cleverly kept a 107 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: copy of it. UM and he only contacted the FBI 108 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: eight months after U Hunter Biden abandoned the laptop at 109 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: his store and it became his his legal property. And 110 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: so I get this text message late at night. I've 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: been talking to Rudy as soon as I came to 112 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: New York. I cultivated Ruddy Juliani because well because I 113 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: knew of his proximity to Donald Trump and that he 114 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: knows everybody in New York. But also I had lived 115 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: here back in the the you know, the bat old 116 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: eighties with my parents, when New York was just a hellhole, 117 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: and so I had a huge amount of respect for 118 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: what he had done to clean up the city. So 119 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: to me, he was an icon of New York. And 120 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: I was going to work for the New York Post. 121 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to become his friends. So I was sort 122 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: of doing that, and he now was trusting me and 123 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: given the interviews and so on, and so, um, I 124 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: think I was top of mind when they had had 125 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: some difficulty. That's a long story, but you know, they 126 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: had contacted a send of mine at the New York 127 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: Post earlier and she'd um she didn't have a copy 128 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: of the hard drive, but she had been working on it. 129 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: But the whole project to hit a sort of legal 130 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: stumbling point, and so I think Rudy Giuliani and Bob 131 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: Costello wanted it to go to the Post, but um, 132 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: they were just they come to the end of their 133 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: tether because it was now so close to the election, 134 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: was a month before the elections, so they were going 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: to hand it over to the Daily Mail or some 136 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: other organization. And at the last minute, Rudy Giuliani said 137 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: to Bob just try him around it. So he tried 138 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: me late one night, and I loved it, and and 139 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, spent some time the next day talking to 140 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: both of them about it and resolved that this was 141 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: kind of above my pay grade. So I uh sent 142 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: some of the information and talked to my editor in 143 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: chief Kyle Allen, the Australian editor that I had that 144 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: I had this very good, long standing relationship with, so 145 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: it was a mutual trust situation and he immediately saw 146 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: what a you know what, what potential there was in 147 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: this story. So he just put his all the best 148 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,599 Speaker 1: journalists in the newsroom onto um tracking it down. We 149 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: sent someone down to Delaware to interview jump On mac 150 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: Isaac and it was all systems go, and within five 151 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: or six days, UM we had the first story up 152 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: and running. Okay, so you have been doing journalism for 153 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: a while. Every journalist has to have in some way 154 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: a bullshit detector, right, for lack of a better way 155 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: of describing it, because you've probably over the years been 156 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: pitched all sorts of fantastical. This is the once in 157 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: a lifetime story. This is incredibly compelling, and probably over 158 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: time you do some research and you're like, okay, this 159 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: isn't as it was initially conveyed to me. When did 160 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: you start to look at the documents yourself and say, 161 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: holy crap, this is a monster story. The data is 162 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: just voluminous of Hunter Biden, this being officially his laptop, 163 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: the videos, the pictures, everything else. Because in the back 164 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: of your mind. You had to know that the Biden 165 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: team was never going to be like, yeah, you know what, 166 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: you caught us red handed? Kind of take me through 167 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: that process in your mind of hey, this thing exists, 168 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: but could it really be real? And working your way 169 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: towards your own determination of the documents. Yeah, well, you're 170 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: absolutely right, Clay that you know, after three decades or 171 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: more in journalism, I've wasted so much time when I 172 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: was younger in um you know, being a little too 173 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: or not skeptical enough. You know, people come to you 174 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: with their stories and voluminous documents, and I've wasted so 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: much time until I find out at the end that 176 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's just not worth a story. Um So, 177 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: I now, you know, the last ten years or so, 178 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: I just on the side of, um, just ultra skepticism. 179 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: I just anyone comes to me with the story. I 180 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: just admitted it was young. Yeah, sure, I'm not gonna 181 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: waste my time on this. I'll have a quick glance 182 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: at it. Um So, you know, of the stuff that 183 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: comes to me, I will just dismiss this was different because, 184 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: um first of all, Rudy Giuliani in the sort of 185 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 1: a year and a half a couple of years I've 186 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: come to know him. He'd never steered me wrong. Bob 187 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: Costello is an incredibly legitimate person, you know, former assistant 188 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: head of UM Criminal Investigations at the Southern District of 189 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: New York, very eminent lawyer, brain like a steel trap. UM. 190 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: So the two of them were very legitimate. The material 191 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: they were showing me, even before I had the laptop, 192 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: UM just checked out, you know, just quick Google sort 193 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: searches of dates and times and photographs and so on, 194 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: just on a very cursory level checked out. UM. And 195 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: then you know, John Paul mac Isaac was a legitimate guy. 196 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: He he um, you know, and as I've come to 197 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: know him, I mean, he's a very genuine person, a 198 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: real patriot. He's a Trump supporter, but that doesn't outlaw 199 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: someone from having an opinion, UM, and and having legitimate material. 200 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: And he was very concerned. The reason he contacted Rudy 201 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: Giuliani in the end, and after originally contacting the FBI, 202 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: was because he saw the president, President Trump, who he 203 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: voted for, getting raked over the coals over the Ukraine impeachment. 204 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: And he knew that in the laptop there was exculpatory 205 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: evidence about Ukraine, about the rhythma UM, you know, chapter 206 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: and birth. He he did a really good forensic deep 207 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: dive on that, and that was very impressive. I mean 208 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: I had his material, his email that he turned to 209 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: Bob Costello initially in August, which really, I mean even 210 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: today stands the test of time. He pulled out of 211 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: that laptop three of the most crucial documents UM and 212 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: narratives to do with Ukraine that are as danning today 213 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: or you've probably more than they were then. So all 214 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: of this again, you know, we then UM uh you know, 215 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: other reporters UM, Emma Joe Morris, a terrific journalist fan 216 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: of mine. UM, she did some some excellent kind of 217 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: a due diligence UM, and other journalists that we had 218 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: did as well. UM. And so we were very confident 219 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: with those first UM, that first week of stories that 220 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: the emails UM that we were referring to were legitimate. UM. 221 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: And then you know, I get a chance to actually 222 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: do it, a longer, deeper dive in it, and I 223 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: end up talking to Oh, sorry, from the very beginning, 224 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: I also had UM. I forgot to other UM tiny 225 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: Bob Lynsky's UM material, all his that he had handed 226 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: over to the FBI. I came into UM possession of 227 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: that early on, so I was able to cross match 228 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: the emails that came from UH. You know that really 229 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: that Tony bob Lynsky and Hunter Biden had in common. 230 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: And on top of that, Tony bob Lynsky had WhatsApp messages, 231 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: UM and other documents that sort of butterst and augmented 232 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: what was on the laptop. And then you know, obviously 233 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: talking to Tony bob Lynsky and other people who were 234 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: recipients of those emails, it just was just incontrovertible. This 235 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: was a legitimate UM laptop. This was Hunter Biden's laptop. 236 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: On top of that, you know, the night before we 237 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: published Octo, the night before we had contacted that earlier 238 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: that day UM Hunter Biden by his lawyer George Musir, 239 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: and UM that evening, UM John Paul maciaac gets the 240 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: phone call from George Musir. We know it was George 241 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: Musir because John Paul mc guys like in his computer shop, 242 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: had the presence of mind to say, look, I don't 243 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: know if you are who you say you are. Can 244 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: you please send me an email and your work email, 245 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: so then I know you're actually had to bind lawyer 246 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: to just verify who you are. George Musir did that. 247 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: And what George Muz asked jump On mac Isaac for 248 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: was he said, I understand that you have a computer 249 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: belonging to my client, UM, and we like to have 250 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: it back. So you know, they were just it wasn't 251 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: like one bombshell. It was just a thousand points of light. 252 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: With any of these UM, it's material. We have vast 253 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 1: trobes of documents. UM. There's always, you know, countless ways 254 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: that you verify it, and I've just told you a 255 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: few of them. And now you know, I wrote a 256 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: book on it, and I've spent now over two years 257 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: um in depth looking at it. And there's not one 258 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: l element of this, this this laptop that I have 259 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: published or investigated that has not come out to be 260 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: completely legitimate. And of course the fact that Joe Biden 261 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: and Hunter Biden never never denied that this was Hunter's laptop, 262 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: and Hunter said, I could be in my laptop. You know, 263 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: I might have lost it, so I might have stolen it. 264 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: They've never denied it. They've never denied outrite any of 265 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: the information on it. And in fact, Joe Biden halfway 266 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: through I had the first story that we wrote from 267 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: the laptop was on that October fourteen story was an 268 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: email that was Hunter Biden's Ukrainian paymaster who was paying 269 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: him a million dollars a year, thanked him and his 270 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: email for introducing him to his father in Washington did 271 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: and that was when Joe Biden was Vice president. And 272 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: I managed to find that sorry game, and so I 273 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: managed to find later on as I went further and 274 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: further into the laptop. But this wasn't just any old meeting. 275 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: This was a dinner that Hunter Biden had organized in 276 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: April for his father, then the Vice president, to meet 277 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: his clients, prospective benefactors from the Ukraine but also from 278 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: Russia and Kazakhstan. And he organized this dinner at a 279 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: Georgetown restaurant called Cafe Milano. And you know, so many 280 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: emails and he says, I'll ostensibly this is supposed to 281 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: be about, you know what, the World Food program that 282 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: he's involved with. That don't you know my dad's coming. 283 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: Don't show anyone um And you know they denied that 284 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: this meeting ever happened. And then halfway through I published 285 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: the story about the Cafe Milano, and the Washington Post 286 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: decides that they're going to prospect check me Glenn Kistler, 287 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: and lo and behold, Glenn Kissler finds out that actually 288 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: the White House admits that Joe did go to the dinner, 289 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: but that he you know, didn't go for any nesarious 290 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: purpose and only stayed a short time, which is not true. 291 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 1: He stayed with the entire you know, I'm told by 292 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: people who were there, stayed for the entire you know, 293 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: just didn't drink. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports 294 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows 295 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 1: at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the I 296 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app search f s R to listen live. Okay, 297 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: I love all of this. I want to dive into 298 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: the timeline. If we couldn't, We're talking to Miranda Divine. 299 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses, a deep 300 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: dive into the New York Post story on Hunter Biden, 301 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and how it came to pass and the 302 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: reaction to it. And my idea, by the way, for 303 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: everybody out there listening, is so many of these details 304 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: You may have come on to this story a year in, 305 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: you might have come in two years. A lot of 306 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: people out there are still trying to catch up. And 307 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 1: I told you before we started recording, Miranda, it's like 308 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: a television series that you might suddenly have watched an 309 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 1: episode of in year three and you're like, oh, this 310 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: is interesting, but you don't really know the background upon 311 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: which it's based. So my idea is to kind of 312 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: ground this inner reality, to get the timeline everybody understand it. 313 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: So you published the first story is in October four, Yeah, okay, 314 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: all hell breaks loose. I want to go into all 315 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: hell breaking loose as you published, but I also want 316 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: to contextualize a couple of things that we now know 317 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 1: that are very important. The FBI was at the time, 318 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: uh surveiling Rudy Giuliani. So not only did the FBI 319 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: have the Hunter Biden laptop since December of when it 320 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: was handed over to them by John Paul Maciaac, but 321 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:00,200 Speaker 1: also they were surveilling Rudy Giuliani, so in theory, they 322 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: were aware of everyone in the media that he was 323 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: talking to. And as point of fact, and I'm sure 324 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: you've seen this as the Twitter documents have come out. 325 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: The FBI actually conducted a briefing basically the night before 326 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: this story was coming out, while saying there may be 327 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: some Russian disinformation coming out to seed in the Twitter 328 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: in the Facebook sphere. We've seen Mark Zuckerberg come out 329 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: and talk about these briefings. We've seen the actual documents 330 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: from inside Twitter. Did you have any clue that the 331 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: FBI had at the time Rudy Giuliani under surveillance and 332 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: was in theory aware of the communication that you were 333 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: engaging with Rudy Giuliani. Presumably they would have heard you 334 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: and or seen your interaction with him in some way 335 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,399 Speaker 1: with him under surveillance. Did you know about any of 336 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: that at the time. I had no idea, And now 337 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: that did Rudy. Rudy Giuliani. This was a COVID surveillance 338 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: warrant um and the FBI was basically spying on his cloud, 339 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: so they had access to all his emails and messages 340 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: at that time for about two years. I mean they 341 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: started when he became President Trump's um private lawyer. Whether 342 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: or not they were really using Rudy Giuliani and now 343 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: and sorry, sorry to cut you off, Miranda would they 344 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: have been phone tapping him as well to hear conversations 345 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: or to your knowledge? Was this just like, hey, they're 346 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: getting every text message for in theory and email that 347 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: he would have been sending. Do you know I believe 348 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: it was just a cloud. Um. I think it's quite 349 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: easy for the FBI now to just send messages to uh, 350 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: you know, the Apple or whoever to get access to 351 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: people's because yeah, okay, that's interesting. Does that make you 352 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: feel as a journalist, as someone who was reporting on 353 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: a presidential election? I just want to focus on that 354 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: for a moment, like that feels insanely dirty to me, 355 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: because they have sense we should mention this too. Found 356 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: out that Rudy Giuliani violated no law, and they have said, hey, 357 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: we're not bringing any charges. So they got a wire 358 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: tap potentially. I think it's fair to say under unsavory 359 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: UH conditions, investigated him, determined that he was doing nothing wrong, 360 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: and in theory, I'm presuming you would have been texting 361 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: with Rudy Giuliani and emailing, right, so they were able 362 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: to then keep trapped tabs on you and any other 363 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: journalists that he was talking to. Does that make you 364 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: feel dirty that the United States government was able to 365 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: be basically snooping into all of your communications, especially when 366 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: you're a journalist trying to get a truthful story out. 367 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. But I mean, I guess you know, 368 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,919 Speaker 1: most of the sources that I speak to, um, you know, 369 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: for a long time now we just assume that someone's 370 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: listening in its unparanoid, but we use encrypto app um 371 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: and talking so um. You know, I think Brilly Juniorani 372 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: was always very careful about what he said. He's just 373 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: not someone who really um writes a lot on text 374 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,239 Speaker 1: and neither way. I guess it makes you want to 375 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 1: just meet face to face almost right, so that in 376 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: theory you can you can talk open. How crazy is 377 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:19,959 Speaker 1: that that you have to be concerned about the FBI 378 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: as a journalist, that you have to be concerned about 379 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: the FBI snooping on you such that you want to 380 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: meet in person as opposed to even engaging in a 381 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: phone conversation. Well, it's crazy, but we've seen that the 382 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: FBI have been raiding journalists rating lawyers um that you know, 383 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: attorney client privilege means nothing, um, journalistic sources meant nothing. 384 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: They rated Project veritas and took all their their phones 385 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: with all their confidential sources. Uh, there's just doesn't seem 386 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: to be any restrictions there are, there are no tabooze anymore. Um. 387 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: So look, what we know is that Rudy Giuliani was 388 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: under I call it false pretenses. He was under surveillance. 389 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: He his house was raided, his home and his office 390 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: were raided. I think it was all his devices were seized. 391 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: And then quietly two years later, more than two years later, 392 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: two and a half years later, they returned all his 393 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: devices and they just, um, you know, said that there 394 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: were no no charges. This he was being looked at 395 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: by the FBI over Foreign Agent Registration Act violations or 396 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: alleged violations, which they found there weren't any violations. But 397 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: ironically that's the exact same violations that Hunter bidens being 398 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: looked at by their Delaware U. S. Attorney. But anyway, 399 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: so Rudy Giuliani, we know he's under surveillance during the 400 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: time that I was speaking to him, but more importantly, 401 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: in August of he was under surveillanced by the FBI. 402 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: When John Paul maciasac sent that initial very voluminous and 403 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: detailed email to him with screenshots from the laptop talking 404 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: about Ukraine and his concerns about national security. So the 405 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: FBI had that say, well, I don't know if they 406 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: had it. I mean, maybe they're lazy and they had 407 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: the surveillance warrant and didn't see it. So I can't 408 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: I can't definitively say that the FBI saw that email, 409 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: but they certainly had access to it because they were 410 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: spying on Rudy. They would have also had access to 411 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: my messages with Rudy. One in particular. Most of them 412 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: were pretty anodyne, but one of them in particular would 413 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: have tipped them off that The New York Post was 414 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: going to publish. So um and and you know, the 415 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: FBI had had the laptop since December. They had interviewed 416 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: John Pool mac Isaac twice. They knew he was a 417 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: legitimate guy. Um. They they pretty only had done some 418 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: research on him. They knew that what was on the 419 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: laptop was genuine, and they had buried it. We now 420 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: know from FBI whistleblowers who came forward to Chuck Grasley 421 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: and Ron Johnson that they that there were there were 422 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: people within the FBI, within the Washington Field office, who 423 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: buried anything to do with the Hunter Biden laptop or 424 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: anything to do any any information that was deroctory about 425 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: Joe Biden for Inston's including Hunter Biden's former business partner 426 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: Tony Bobolynsky, who I mentioned before, who who I had 427 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: all his material. He had come forward to the FBI 428 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: a week or so before the election voluntarily handed over 429 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: the contents of his phone which I had, and also 430 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: um he had a five and a half hour interview 431 00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: with them and told them about his concerns about the 432 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: influenced peddling um operation that Joe Biden and his son 433 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: and his brother Jim Biden had been carrying on to 434 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: do with China, because Tony bob Lynsky was involved in 435 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: the China deals. And so the FBI, also we know 436 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: from whistleblowers, buried that, Okay, and and they start to 437 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: cut you off. I'm gonna get into that in a second, 438 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: but just to me, the essence of the question here, Miranda, 439 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: and you've laid it out, but I just kind of 440 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: want to sum it up is the FBI had had 441 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: this laptop since December. They knew that it was real 442 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,640 Speaker 1: based on talking to John Paul mciaac just based on 443 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: the voluminous degree of incriminating behavior and just also specific behavior. 444 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: This couldn't have the pictures, the video like it couldn't 445 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: have been made up, all right? I mean and and again, Uh, 446 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: they knew that it was real from December. They are 447 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: they then have trumped up charges basically to be able 448 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: to surveill Rudy Giuliani. As a result, they know that 449 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: your New York Post story is coming out. They are 450 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: telling all of the big tech companies, Hey, Russian disinformation 451 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: is coming out. So I'm curious how you would analyze 452 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: this someone at the FBI. It's possible, right that these 453 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: lower level FBI people who are giving these uh sermons 454 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: to the big tech companies about Russian disinformation, they may 455 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: not have known there there there's a possibility there's different 456 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: investigations going on and they didn't know about the laptop 457 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: or the specifics of it. Let's give them a little 458 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: bit of benefit of the doubt here. But someone at 459 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: the FBI, maybe it's Christopher Ray, someone certainly at the 460 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: very apex of the FBI knew this laptop was real 461 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: and allowed a false information campaign to be waged against 462 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,959 Speaker 1: your New York Post story. To me, that's the essence 463 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: of this question. Who ordered that code read? Who knew 464 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: the laptop was real and then used every asset they could, 465 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: including the FBI itself, to protect Joe Biden Hunter Biden 466 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: from this truth to coming out. Is that kind of 467 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: to me? That's the essence of this story right now, 468 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: as all of this information has come out, somebody at 469 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: the FBI knew this was real and prevented the truth 470 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: from coming out. Who was that? That's the crux of 471 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: this story to me, that's the sixty four dollar question. 472 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: And like Watergate, the cover up by the FBI inclusion 473 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: with the social media companies and probably the CIA or 474 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: former CIA operatives, uh they they were involved in bearing 475 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: this story. The cover up is worse than even the 476 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: corruption that we've uncovered from the Biden family and the FBI. 477 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: UM basically had warned Twitter and Facebook during the weekly 478 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: meetings before the election to expect hack and leak operations 479 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: by Russia, and Twitter was warned that they would probably 480 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: involve Hunter Biden and probably happen will likely happened in October. 481 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: Facebook was told UM warned, we know from Mark Zuckerberg 482 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: talking to Joe rogan Um was warned also to be 483 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: on high Lerk for a dump pro Russian propaganda in 484 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: October before. And that's why I think this is so important, Miranda, 485 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: because I understand why people are angry at Twitter and Facebook. 486 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: But if you were a mid level employee at Twitter 487 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: and Facebook and your FBI came to you and said, hey, 488 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: we know based on our investigation that Russian dis info 489 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: is coming based on allegations surrounding Hunter Biden and Joe 490 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: Biden in their relationship, there's going to be doctor documents 491 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: and everything else. When your story dropped, they would have 492 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: seen this and said, oh my goodness, this is exactly 493 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: what we've been warned about, which is why the nefarious 494 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: actions of the f e I are so galling, because 495 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: they took advantage of I really think they played Facebook 496 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: and Twitter for fools. But also, if I'm putting myself 497 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: in this position, Miranda, if I had been twenty eight 498 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: or thirty two and I'm a mid level employee at 499 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: Twitter and the FBI is sharing this information with me, 500 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: and they've already seeded this idea of your democracies in 501 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: peril because of Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and everybody else. Like, 502 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: you can see why they reacted the way that they 503 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: did right now. I mean, it's easy to make them villains, 504 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: but I think the FBI is a supreme arch villain here, 505 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: and really Twitter and Facebook were just stooges getting played. Yeah, 506 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: I think you can say that, particularly when Twitter had 507 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: as its deputy general counsel a guy called James Baker, 508 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: who had seen the General counsel, which is top lawyer 509 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: at the FBI during all the Russia collusion hoax stuff. 510 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: You know, he was front and sent. He he was 511 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: the guy who drafted the memo for James Comey about 512 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. He was the one who brought in the 513 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: Alpha Bank nonsense and all the other sort of nonsense 514 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: stuff that turned out to be false, the Steel glossier, 515 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: and someone about about Donald Trump being a Russian asset. Um. 516 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: That was James Baker. He's a you know, a dirty player, 517 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: and he somehow he gets basically has to resign from 518 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: the FBI and low and behold about a year before 519 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: the election or lest he shows up at Twitter as 520 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: their number two lawyer. And he was, we know now 521 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: from the Twitter files, instrumental in getting Twitter to censor 522 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: The New York Post after we published our first story 523 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: on the Hunter Biden laptop and lock the New York Post. 524 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I want to go to next So October 525 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: the story breaks. I'm sure you were expecting it to 526 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: be a bombshell, but all hell broke loose, even in 527 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: a way that I don't think you would have anticipated. 528 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: What was that experience like to have that story happened, 529 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: and then the results and maybe tell people who weren't 530 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: necessarily following this minute by minute what happened to The 531 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: New York Post when the story comes out to you? 532 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: To everyone involved in this story, well, we knew it 533 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: was a huge story. We knew that it was incredibly 534 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: damaging to one of the two candidates for president. It 535 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: was three weeks before the election um and so you know, 536 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: it took a lot of dusts for I have to say, 537 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: my top editor to decide to go with it, and 538 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: so we were bracing. We had decided rather than or 539 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: the editors have decided, rather than publishing the night before 540 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: as we normally do, like ten o'clock at night, we 541 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: would hold back and publish in the paper but online 542 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: only at five o'clock in the morning, and immediately journalists 543 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter, um, you know, people like Maggie Happerman from 544 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: the New York Times and people from NBC and so on, 545 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: started talking about it and sharing the story because it 546 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: was huge on anyone's standards. This journalistically, this was a 547 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: massive scoop. Suddenly you had um, uh, the actually a 548 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: guy from Facebook who was a former Democratic operative. He 549 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: pops up and he says on Twitter and he says, 550 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: we are um, I can't remember his exact words, but 551 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: throttling or stopping the spread of this story, pending fact checks, 552 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: not going to make any comment, not going to link 553 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: on this story. And then shortly after that, Twitter did 554 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: the same thing, and effectively, I mean they've got all 555 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: sorts of words they used, like producing the the spread 556 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: or something. I don't know what their jargon is, but 557 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: effectively they just censored. They just killed the story. Um 558 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: there and then and you know, I don't know if 559 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: people understand, but with new papers now, so much of 560 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: um what we do is online and it cost us 561 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: a lot of money. The fact that our our you know, 562 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: our story was locked down. Our account was locked for 563 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: over two weeks until a couple of days before the 564 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: election Um, it really for the New York Post, which 565 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: is the country's oldest newspaper, the third largest bicirculation. It 566 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: was just an incredible audacity by these social media giants 567 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: to do this. And we now see from the Twitter 568 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: files the internal communications inside Twitter and some of what 569 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg told us went on in Facebook. They didn't 570 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: take this lightly. They knew that this was huge, but 571 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: they were massaged into it. The story had already been 572 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 1: prebunked by the FBI. If that grooming of Twitter and 573 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: Facebook hadn't been happening in the weeks before our story 574 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: was published, they probably wouldn't have been bold enough to 575 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: censor The New York Post. But because they felt that 576 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: they were operating on FBI instructions, basically to save national 577 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: security against Russian interference with the election. Um, they were 578 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: willing servants of the intelligence community. And there is something 579 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 1: really dirty about the fact that here was the FBI 580 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: intervening for the second election in a row. Uh and 581 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: and with just completely dishonestly, they knew that our story 582 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: was real. Um, you can't tell me that the people 583 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: who ordered the censorship of The New York Post from 584 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,839 Speaker 1: the FBI did not also know that what we were 585 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: going to write was real, no doubt, And I think 586 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,360 Speaker 1: that's what's so important. A lot of people focus on 587 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook. Someone at the FBI, maybe a group 588 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: of people at the FBI at the top, again, just 589 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: to reiterate, they knew that your story was coming. They 590 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: had known that your story was coming for some time 591 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,839 Speaker 1: because they had Rudy Giuliani under surveillance and they were 592 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: aware of much of his communications and the fact that 593 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: he was trying to shop this evidence from the laptop, 594 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: which they had been in possession of the FBI themselves 595 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 1: since December of So all Rudy Giuliani was shopping was 596 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: another version of the information that they already had, which, 597 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: by the way, if John Paul Mike Isaac hadn't made 598 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: a copy of what was on the Hunter Biden laptop, 599 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: no one would have ever believed him about this, right, 600 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: And the FBI would have probably destroyed the laptop and 601 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: never admit that there was anything on there that was 602 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: in any way incriminating. Right. So someone ordered a fix 603 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: in a big way. I think this makes and I'm 604 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: curious what you think, Miranda, And obviously you're involved in 605 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: writing this story. And you've done an incredible job. But 606 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: I've been saying this makes Watergate seemed like jaywalking, right, 607 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: like when you actually consider the complicity involved from the 608 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: f b I and where exactly and how many different 609 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: people were involved in this conspiracy of silence to protect 610 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and potentially rigged election. I mean it is. 611 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: It is a story the likes of which most of 612 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: the people listening to us right now have never experienced 613 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: in our lifetimes. Yes, and it has the added element 614 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: of the threat national security that Joe Biden's and his 615 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: family's influenced peddling operation had during the eight years that 616 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: he was Vice president and his son and brother were 617 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: running around the world partnering with Chinese Belton road Front 618 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: organizations allied with the Chinese military and military intelligence. And 619 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: also were you know, a hunter was getting paid, as 620 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: I said, three thousand dollars a month from this corrupt 621 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: energy company in Ukraine, UM sitting on their board. And 622 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: you know the only reason that he was getting money 623 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: from any of these people was it was a bribe 624 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: paid to the family of the second most powerful man 625 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: in the world, Joe Biden. And Joe Biden had been 626 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: appointed by Barack Obama to be his point man in 627 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: China and his point man in Ukraine, and both of 628 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: those countries were extremely lucrative to the tune of tens 629 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars to his family. And you know, 630 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: Joe Biden was involved in that. And that's what the 631 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: value of the laptop is, that it shows you how 632 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: much Joe Biden was involved. He met with Hunter Biden's 633 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: overseas business partners. He met them in Beijing, he met 634 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: them in Washington, d C. He invited them to his 635 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: home at the Vice Presidential Residents at the Naval Observatory. Um. 636 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: He met them, as I said, Cafe Milano. He met 637 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: them in his White House office. UM. So he was 638 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: intimately involved. He was described as the big guy and 639 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: one of their emails, who was going to get a 640 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 1: cut a ten percent cut of one of these Chinese deals? Um. 641 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: Tony Bob o Lynsky, hunter Biden's former business partner, swears 642 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,719 Speaker 1: blind that the big guy is Joe Biden. And that's 643 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: backed up by other material on the laptop. There's so much, uh, 644 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, invoices and bank statements that show you the 645 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 1: money flow, where it's coming from. The meetings, Joe Biden's involvement. UM. 646 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: And then you have to add to that the Treasury 647 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: Department documents, these so called suspicious activity reports that banks 648 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: are required to file when money that comes through into 649 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: their bank accounts of American citizens comes from a dodgy sources, suspects, 650 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: sources overseas um. And there were you know, dozens of 651 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: those suspicious activity reports filed about the Bidens. And that 652 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: was unveiled by Chuck Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson when 653 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,480 Speaker 1: they did their incredibly good investigation, which came out in September. 654 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: Before I even knew about the laptop. I read their report, 655 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: their first report, and it was chapter and verse. It 656 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: was like the prelude to the laptop. If you read that, 657 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 1: then when you saw the laptop, it became clear. This 658 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: was the flesh on the bones that Chuck Grasley and 659 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: Ron Johnson had already put together about the Hunter Biden 660 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: corruption and Ukraine and UM. Just as a little side note, 661 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: the FBI also intervened to try and derail and discredit 662 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: um that that Chuck Grasley and Ron Johnson's investigation. In fact, 663 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: when I started writing about it, I was warned off 664 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: and said oh, no, that's Russian disinformation. I was like, 665 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: why it wasn't what didn't seem to me to be so? 666 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: And um, And what Ron Johnson told me was that 667 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: he was amble by the FBI with a bogus defensive briefing, 668 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: um being nothing with August or late August, early September, 669 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: because Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and Adam Schiff had complained 670 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: to the FBI that there was some sort of Russian 671 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: disinformation going on that was going to be derogatory about 672 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: Joe Biden in the Johnson Grasley investigation. And if you 673 00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: think of the timing, August is when h John Paul 674 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: Maciaac sent that voluminous email to Rudy Giuliani that could 675 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: have seen I believe was intercepted by the FBI. So 676 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: somehow the Democrats panicked around that time and they went 677 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: to the FBI and they said, we need you to 678 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: do something about the Johnson Grasley investigation because it's Russian disinformation. 679 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 1: Johnson gets ambushed by by the FBI walking down the corridor. 680 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: His say, hey, there's a couple of SBI people in 681 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,439 Speaker 1: your office. He goes back, say start talking to him 682 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: about his investigation and people involved in it saying warning 683 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: him that Russia is trying to spread disinformation. He smelled 684 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,359 Speaker 1: a rat immediately, he said, that's not true, and if 685 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: I see this in the media, I'll know that you 686 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 1: are just setting me up. Sure enough, a day or 687 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: two later, what happened. Story gets leaked to the media 688 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,800 Speaker 1: that the Johnson Gradually investigation has been polluted by Russian disinformation. 689 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: We're talking to Miranda Vine New York Post. I mean, 690 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: this to me is just incredibly compelling. And again I'm 691 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: just gonna keep saying. If they actually gave politzeers based 692 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: on real news, then Miranda and her crew at the 693 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: New York Post should get all of them that were 694 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: given out for Russia collusion. They should be rescinded. I 695 00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: want to ask you a couple of questions here. Everything 696 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: in these details is the exact same except instead of 697 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, Donald Trump Jr. Is the one with the laptop. 698 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 1: How does the media cover it If Donald Trump Junior 699 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: had been accused on a laptop of everything that Hunter 700 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: Biden and Joe Biden, it's Donald Trump Junior and Donald 701 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: Trump exact same details. Otherwise, this story has covered how 702 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: in the United States media. It would have been wall 703 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: to wall, just like the Steel dossier, the Russia collusion 704 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: anything um that it would have been true. Unlike those Yeah, exactly. 705 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: So that's the irony is that they blew up and 706 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: one pullets as the Washington Post and the New York 707 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: Times one pullet surprises for their coverage of the Russia 708 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: collusion hoax, which was proven after a two year investigation 709 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: by Robert Mueller to be completely baseless and seeded by 710 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton's campaign to start with. So it was a 711 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: Democrat dirty tricks campaign that was aided in the by 712 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, shadowy forces within the intelligence agencies. Probably the 713 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: same people covered up our story and covered up the 714 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden laptop, and it would have been everywhere. But 715 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: what we got instead was the opposite. This time, we 716 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: had four days, five days after our their story was published, 717 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 1: there was this letter up one intelligence officials right who 718 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: say that this is all all Russian disinformation. Yet mostly 719 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,880 Speaker 1: they were former CIA and of course led by John Brennan, 720 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: James Clapper, the usual truspect to perjured themselves in front 721 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: of Congress. Um. And these people, fifty one of them, 722 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: put the weight of their very high. I mean, I 723 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,400 Speaker 1: think there were four or five former CIA directors or 724 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: acting CIA directors, and a whole lot of other very 725 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 1: high ranking former intelligence officials who should hang their heads 726 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: in shame for putting their name to a scoreless letter 727 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: that dishonestly said that the story that Hunter Biden's laptop 728 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:15,240 Speaker 1: had all the earmarks of a Russian information operation in effect, 729 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: and the way that Politico, which was first leaked that 730 00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: letter reported it was that this was a Russian disinformation operation. 731 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: But of course they used weazel words since pretending that 732 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: they weren't trying to convey that impression. Of course they were, 733 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: and it killed the story, um Stone dead in terms 734 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: of the rest of the media following it up. It 735 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 1: was a very convenient, figly for the media to say, oh, no, 736 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: we're not going to cover this, it's Russian propaganda and uh. 737 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: And then, of course, a couple of days later you 738 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,200 Speaker 1: had Joe Biden had to appear at that last debate 739 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,400 Speaker 1: against Donald Trump. Bad timing for him, because of course 740 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: Donald Trump bought up the Hunter Biden laptop store in 741 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: his meeting with the Ukrainian paymaster, and Joe Biden um 742 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: just used that letter from the one dirty intelligence operatives 743 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: and said, you know, the intelligence community says that this 744 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,040 Speaker 1: is just a Russian plant, and turned the books back 745 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: on Donald Trump, and he got away with it. It 746 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: got him off the hook. He had gone to ground 747 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: after our story, refused to answer questions hidden the basement, um, 748 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, ran away from any any questions. And after 749 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 1: that debate, he really was home free. So, Miranda, and 750 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,439 Speaker 1: by the way, the Russian disinformation why, I'm sure you've 751 00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: seen some of these reports, and I hope some of 752 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: the people that are listening to us right now are 753 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,439 Speaker 1: finally seeing the light of day. But around fifty pc 754 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: of people up to six I think I saw on 755 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:55,960 Speaker 1: a recent survey, actually still believe that this hoax, that 756 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: this was a Russian disinformation hoax, and the Hunter Biden 757 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 1: laptop is all made up. How frustrating is it to you, 758 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: not only that that argument was made, but that substantial 759 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: portions of the American population believe that this is all 760 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:15,800 Speaker 1: a farce, that this entire story is not true. Well, 761 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's incredibly frustrating. I mean, it's very depressing 762 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: for America that that's happening. And it's not just on 763 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,080 Speaker 1: the story it's on COVID, it's on Ukraine, it's on 764 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,600 Speaker 1: all sorts of things. And the reason is because they've 765 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: been propagandized by a completely corrupt establishment media. And I 766 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: count the New York Times, in the Washington Post there, 767 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: but you know also ABC, CBS, VIACOM, UM, CNN and 768 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 1: the SNBC, etcetera. UM, they have a narrative. They have 769 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:55,000 Speaker 1: hired as experts, as consultants. UM. These these totally discredited 770 00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 1: deep state people, whether it be Brennan or Clapper or um, 771 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, Peter Strock, Lisa Page. These people are treated 772 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 1: as heroes on CNN and MSNBC and as experts whose 773 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 1: whose word is impeccable. In fact, they lied and uh 774 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: and ran a complete propaganda mission. And on top of that, 775 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: you have social media has just clamped down on the 776 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: truth about these stories. So you know, you you have 777 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,360 Speaker 1: at least half the country is ignorant. Um. They only believe, 778 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,759 Speaker 1: they believe everything that they read in the New York 779 00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,120 Speaker 1: Times of the Washington Post. Um. And it's not just 780 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,279 Speaker 1: in America. I know, you know from Australia that the 781 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: leading news organizations in Australia, UM, they they rely on 782 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,560 Speaker 1: the reporting from the New York Times. They regard that 783 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: has been gold standard, and so they are completely ignorant 784 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,879 Speaker 1: about what's been going on in America when it comes 785 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:02,120 Speaker 1: to Russia's collusion, Donald Trump, the Hunter Biden laptop, Joe 786 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,839 Speaker 1: Biden's corruption. Uh, they don't really know any of that. 787 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: And that's the same across Europe and the rest of 788 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: the world. I would say, because you're not getting your 789 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,839 Speaker 1: information from social media, and you're not getting it from 790 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:21,640 Speaker 1: what it regarded internationally as the most credible news sources, 791 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,719 Speaker 1: because the New York Times and so on, resting on 792 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 1: the laurels of their former reputations. What Miranda, when you 793 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: now they're all suddenly coming out right, CBS, I think 794 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: that a story. I'm sure you kind of just arch 795 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: your eyebrows up and they're like, oh, we did a 796 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: research project and we determined that the Hunter Biden laptop 797 00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: is authentic. And then the New York Times they cover it, 798 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,439 Speaker 1: and then Washington Post they all cover it years later. 799 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,240 Speaker 1: Is that validation for you or is it more frustration 800 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,280 Speaker 1: for you when you see these stories being written years 801 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: after you had shared the truth? It's not not really 802 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,759 Speaker 1: I it um, but uh, you know what I mean, 803 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,879 Speaker 1: we know it's true. It doesn't matter whether they say 804 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: it is or it isn't. UM. I rolled my eyes 805 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,160 Speaker 1: a bit, but I'm glad that they've come on board. 806 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:15,880 Speaker 1: But I note always that um, that they're doing it. 807 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: It's it's like a limited hangout. UM. They just put 808 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,880 Speaker 1: out enough information because they know it's coming out anyway. 809 00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 1: They know their readers are starting to ask why don't 810 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:30,799 Speaker 1: we know about this? It's leaking across the sort of 811 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:36,319 Speaker 1: iron wall that they've built up between themselves and the truth. UM. 812 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:41,640 Speaker 1: And they know that Hunter Biden has been under investigation 813 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,920 Speaker 1: since eighteen by the U S Attorney in Delaware. They 814 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: know the Grand Juries Um, you know, has has interviewed 815 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 1: or had testified various important witnesses, former business partners of 816 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,839 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden and so on. So they know that there's 817 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,120 Speaker 1: going to be a story and a possible indictment out 818 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: of that, and they need to get ahead of the story. 819 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,600 Speaker 1: That's why they've been, um, you know, saying that certain 820 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: limited parts of the laptop are authentic. But they always 821 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:15,240 Speaker 1: put a boiler plate paragraph down eight or ten pars 822 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,960 Speaker 1: which paragraphs which says, um, you know there's no evidence 823 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden was involved. Well, that's just not true. 824 00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: They now have the laptop. We've published voluminous information and 825 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,440 Speaker 1: it's come from elsewhere of Joe Biden's involvement. Joe Biden 826 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,200 Speaker 1: told the American people during the campaign that he knew 827 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,440 Speaker 1: nothing about his son Hunter's overseas business dealings. Um, that's 828 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: just palpably false. There's evidence that is now on the 829 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 1: public record of his meeting with you. At least a 830 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: dozen of Hunter Biden's formed the business partners. There's also 831 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:57,279 Speaker 1: some evidence that I've published that Joe Biden financially benefited 832 00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,840 Speaker 1: from Hunter Biden, that they were um, you know, shared 833 00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:06,240 Speaker 1: debit cards, mingled finances, um. And that Hunter was paying 834 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,760 Speaker 1: to some of the bills in Joe's at Joe's mansion, 835 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,319 Speaker 1: you know, the maintenance of a painting, new shutters, new 836 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: air conditioning, and so on, because it's a very expensive 837 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: um estate to maintain. Um. And it was also paying 838 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,880 Speaker 1: for a cell phone for Joe Biden. I only have 839 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. There's just a little bit 840 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 1: of information of that in the laptop. But I'm sure 841 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,960 Speaker 1: that the Republican investigators who have access to bank accounts 842 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,359 Speaker 1: and so on. And that's important all that you're sharing there, 843 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: because you actually and the New York Post did not 844 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: cover as much of the sensational uh and ridiculous private 845 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: life of Hunter Biden, right. I mean there's scatters of 846 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:57,879 Speaker 1: information on that laptop, nude videos, prostitution, the drug use. 847 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: I mean, all of that is very so acious. But 848 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: you guys, by your nature, said, Okay, he's not the 849 00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,600 Speaker 1: candidate who's running. What we're really focusing on is Hunter 850 00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: Biden and Joe Biden's improper involvement in larger international affairs, 851 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,399 Speaker 1: not on the personal peccadillos of a drug addict son. 852 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's important because there is an attack 853 00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 1: sometimes where they say, well, Hunter Biden doesn't have an 854 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: elected office, why should we care about anything with him? Uh, 855 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,000 Speaker 1: And they try to focus on the personal failings. You 856 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: guys specifically avoided trying to sensationalize those. Yeah, we did, 857 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: and deliberately so because I mean a because the evidence 858 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:49,200 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden was compromised by China, Russia, you know, Ukraine, 859 00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:54,600 Speaker 1: these other countries was so bombshell that the fact that 860 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,880 Speaker 1: his son was a crack addict and you know, spent 861 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:02,040 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on hookers and uh and drugs was 862 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: kind of irrelevant. I mean, that's a you know, that's 863 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,440 Speaker 1: a salacious story, um, and ordinarily you'd run it. But 864 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,480 Speaker 1: because the corruption angle and the national security angle just 865 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,440 Speaker 1: vastly overwhelmed that, we didn't want to have the two 866 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,880 Speaker 1: stories mixed up. We didn't want people to get distracted 867 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: by the pawn and the hookers and the crack um 868 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,839 Speaker 1: and not see the real story. We ran, um, some 869 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,439 Speaker 1: pictures we ran, you know, obviously a photo a Hunter 870 00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,840 Speaker 1: Um with the crack pipe in his mouth asleep, and 871 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: a couple of other things like that, because um, that 872 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,480 Speaker 1: was just showing visually what we had that we had, 873 00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,279 Speaker 1: that this was really it's significant in the evidence to 874 00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: your point, yes, that it is real, right that these 875 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 1: are Hunter Biden videos, and that it would be hard 876 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 1: to fake. And that's why that's important. But you're reporting 877 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 1: is on the significant nature of Joe Biden's involvement. And 878 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,800 Speaker 1: I think that's so important because you'll get attacked now 879 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,719 Speaker 1: as there is an anowledgement at the laptop is real, 880 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,920 Speaker 1: some people will come out and say, well, why should 881 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:06,279 Speaker 1: we care about Hunter Biden. He's admitted he was a 882 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 1: drug addict because of his relationships with foreign countries and 883 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,520 Speaker 1: the way that has implicated his father, the President of 884 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: the United States. Yes, and also the fact that he 885 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,280 Speaker 1: was a crack addict made it even more implausible that 886 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,280 Speaker 1: these foreign countries and these oligarchs would give him tens 887 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. He was his life was a 888 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,120 Speaker 1: complete mess during this period. He was incapable of even 889 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,359 Speaker 1: answering emails. For a lot of this. He'd go up 890 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,360 Speaker 1: on vendors, he'd be in rehab, he'd come back and 891 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: be compassed for a little while, and then he'd full 892 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,279 Speaker 1: off the wagon again. So, um, you know his personal life, 893 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,680 Speaker 1: you know his divorce, his affairs, his his his problems 894 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: were immense and so there was no way that he 895 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,920 Speaker 1: was a proper businessman. And uh, you know that was 896 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,880 Speaker 1: important to to make the point as well. But again, 897 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,239 Speaker 1: this is not a story. We never made it a 898 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,840 Speaker 1: story about Hunter Biden. It was always a story about 899 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. And that's something that James Comer, who's the 900 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:17,040 Speaker 1: chairman of the Oversight Committee now Republican, is always making 901 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,200 Speaker 1: that point that this is about Joe Biden. But it 902 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:25,320 Speaker 1: is a quite a a successful tactic by I guess 903 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,720 Speaker 1: the Biden apologists to continually push that point that you know, 904 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden isn't running for office under Biden isn't the president. 905 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: You know, why don't you leave him alone? You know, 906 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: he's had a terrible problem with addiction, and he's recovered, 907 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: and you're just tormenting him, and he's a human being 908 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: and so on. No, I mean, I feel sorry for 909 00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:48,560 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, but the fact is his laptop is a 910 00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:54,800 Speaker 1: peep hole into a longstanding corruption problem that the man 911 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,080 Speaker 1: who is now the president has had for over four decades. 912 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,160 Speaker 1: As a very influential center stuff from Delaware, head of 913 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,480 Speaker 1: the Foreign Relations Committee duchess by China in his very 914 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 1: earliest days back in the seventies, he was um, you know, 915 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 1: pinpointed by the Chinese Communist Party as a as a 916 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,680 Speaker 1: likely ally. They invited him to China. Was one of 917 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:20,800 Speaker 1: the first delegations to go over there. He went to 918 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:24,040 Speaker 1: the equivalent of Martha's vineyards. He came back. He was 919 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:28,600 Speaker 1: so embarrassing in his effusive praise of China that the 920 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,480 Speaker 1: Weekly Standard at the time just made a mockery of him. 921 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:36,440 Speaker 1: Uh and and as a Senator Um. He was instrumental 922 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,200 Speaker 1: during the Clinton years in getting his reluctant Democrat colleagues 923 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:47,200 Speaker 1: to agree to China joining the World Trade Organization. I 924 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,000 Speaker 1: think it was in near two thousand one, and that 925 00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:56,760 Speaker 1: had a really terrible effect on the American working class, 926 00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,800 Speaker 1: from American manufacturing on on the American center at which 927 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,040 Speaker 1: lasts obviously to this day. So that was Joe Biden. 928 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:08,680 Speaker 1: And he's always carried water for China, boasted always about 929 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:12,320 Speaker 1: his hours of face to face time with President Jujuing 930 00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:17,200 Speaker 1: ping Um. And so I just I just think that 931 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:23,320 Speaker 1: that story is terrifying for America. And we know now 932 00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:29,760 Speaker 1: right to this present day, the classified documents scandal revolving 933 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 1: around Joe Biden now links uh and I think this 934 00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:39,320 Speaker 1: is why he's been so panicky. It links him to 935 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:44,840 Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden investigation that's been going on in Delaware, because, um, 936 00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:48,960 Speaker 1: there there are there are items in that laptop that 937 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,720 Speaker 1: could well appear to be only could have come from 938 00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:57,320 Speaker 1: classified information. And I'm not going to go too far 939 00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,959 Speaker 1: with that because I don't know for sure, but I've 940 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: published this week an email from the laptop that Hunter 941 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Biden had written to his business partner Devon Archer UM, 942 01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:13,480 Speaker 1: and it was an uncharacteristic email. It was very long, 943 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,480 Speaker 1: it was very detail, very informed. UM. It listed twenty 944 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: two points about Ukraine's political situation and had detailed information 945 01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: geo political strategic information predicting an escalation of Rush's destabilation. 946 01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,840 Speaker 1: Destabilization came bang talking about you know, natural gas, what 947 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 1: will happen with energy prices in the UK, etcetera. And 948 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:42,080 Speaker 1: that all comes to the fore when you know, UM 949 01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,040 Speaker 1: that in that first tranche of classified documents discovered at 950 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:50,680 Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania in Joe Biden's office. UM, we're 951 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,800 Speaker 1: told by sources who told CNN that those related to Ukraine, 952 01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: to the United Kingdom and to Iran. And so two 953 01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,600 Speaker 1: of those trees are mentioned in this uh. You know 954 01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:10,040 Speaker 1: this this email that stands out because it's unlike anything 955 01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:13,080 Speaker 1: that Hunter Biden has written in the nine years of 956 01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:19,000 Speaker 1: this UM this laptop. It coincides with he's just about 957 01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: to join the Barisma board, as Devon Archer is, and 958 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,640 Speaker 1: his father is just about days away from going on 959 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 1: his first trip to or an early trip to the Ukraine, 960 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,600 Speaker 1: and presumably Joe Biden got a classified briefing on the 961 01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:41,200 Speaker 1: situation in Ukraine before he went and Hunters email to 962 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,640 Speaker 1: Devon Archer has a distinct flavor on an official briefing 963 01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,600 Speaker 1: and maybe even a classified briefing. Fox Sports Radio has 964 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,560 Speaker 1: the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all 965 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,800 Speaker 1: of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and 966 01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,560 Speaker 1: within the I Heart Radio app. Search f s are 967 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,360 Speaker 1: to listen live. Miranda Divine is with us. I'm Clay Travis. 968 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,080 Speaker 1: This is wins and Losses. You have a master of journalism. 969 01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,560 Speaker 1: You've been in journalism for decades. What does it say 970 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,480 Speaker 1: about the state of United States journalism that the New 971 01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,640 Speaker 1: York Times and the Washington Post. Let's use those two 972 01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,560 Speaker 1: for example, because they consider themselves to be the paragon 973 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,960 Speaker 1: of the journalistic establishment. You've referred to both here. They 974 01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,600 Speaker 1: put democracy dyes in darkness at the top of the 975 01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,840 Speaker 1: Washington Post. For God's sakes. When Donald Trump was elected, 976 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,640 Speaker 1: the New York Times all the news that's fit to print. 977 01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,680 Speaker 1: What does it say about those two lions of the 978 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 1: liberal establishment that they wouldn't cover this story, that they 979 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 1: would consider this to be unworthy of contemplation by their 980 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:50,240 Speaker 1: audience in the lead up to a election. Well, I 981 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,400 Speaker 1: think it tells you that they have been thoroughly corrupted. UM. 982 01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,600 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean people will say, well, of 983 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,800 Speaker 1: course she's going to say that because their arrivals. But 984 01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,360 Speaker 1: I think any fair assessment of the way that they 985 01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:06,560 Speaker 1: have handled themselves since at least since Donald Trump came 986 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:12,600 Speaker 1: on the scene, UM publishing false stories, publishing anonymous anonymously 987 01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:21,480 Speaker 1: sourced from obviously intelligence sources that were planting misinformation, disinformation. UM. 988 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,960 Speaker 1: They have they have swallowed hook line and sinker that 989 01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:34,560 Speaker 1: the whole far left cultural ideology. But they've also obviously 990 01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:39,680 Speaker 1: there's been a decision made to UM to just fall 991 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,560 Speaker 1: in and lose their skepticism when it comes to any 992 01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,600 Speaker 1: dirt that they were provided when it came to Donald Trump, 993 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:52,280 Speaker 1: and then become pure as the driven snow, and very 994 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,280 Speaker 1: skeptical when it comes to any information that's derogatory about 995 01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:00,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, even if that information is backed up a 996 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:04,040 Speaker 1: thousand different ways. They have never done a proper investigation 997 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,840 Speaker 1: of the laptop. Never. The Washington Post talks about having 998 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: authenticated some of it, but even then, the copy of 999 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:16,800 Speaker 1: the hard drive that they have came through a very 1000 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,720 Speaker 1: suspect avenue. It cannot suspect, but it came from. It 1001 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,280 Speaker 1: didn't come direct They didn't get one directly from John 1002 01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: Paul Maciaac. They got a copy of the hard drive 1003 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,880 Speaker 1: that had gone through several hands to do with a 1004 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,800 Speaker 1: guy called Jack Maxie and who you know, and people 1005 01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,800 Speaker 1: who people who had copied it and added things to it, 1006 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,400 Speaker 1: and you know, and that gives the Washington Post um 1007 01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,600 Speaker 1: a sort of get out of jail free card because 1008 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,640 Speaker 1: they can say, well, you know, the chain of custody 1009 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:49,160 Speaker 1: on and this isn't very good because the hard drive 1010 01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,920 Speaker 1: that they've chosen to base their reporting on is not 1011 01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,439 Speaker 1: the snow white, crystal clear original hard drive that John 1012 01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,760 Speaker 1: Paul mac Isaac gave us. And so it's almost like 1013 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,160 Speaker 1: they're setting themselves up with a sort of a back 1014 01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,760 Speaker 1: door to get away with it. It just seems otherwise 1015 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,560 Speaker 1: it's just incredibly sloppy reporting, because John Paul Maciaac would 1016 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,080 Speaker 1: have given them a copy. Um and jomp On mac 1017 01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:16,320 Speaker 1: Isaac's now written a book. He's put in there a 1018 01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,520 Speaker 1: lot of detail about um, you know, his interactions with 1019 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:24,040 Speaker 1: the FBI, and some of that's quite sinister. Now. When 1020 01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,160 Speaker 1: he told me about how he felt that the FBI 1021 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,520 Speaker 1: agents who came and took the laptop and a copy 1022 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:33,440 Speaker 1: of the hard drive from him back in December twenty nine. 1023 01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,240 Speaker 1: He felt that they were threatening him or warning him 1024 01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,880 Speaker 1: to keep his mouth shut. And I thought, oh, you know, 1025 01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,400 Speaker 1: he's he's just a bit paranoid, as a lot of 1026 01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,320 Speaker 1: whistleblowers are, because they get scared and they haven't been 1027 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,720 Speaker 1: haven't dealt with law enforcement before, and and they get 1028 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,080 Speaker 1: frightened and um, and they've seen too many movies. So 1029 01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,200 Speaker 1: that's what I thought, So I dismissed. I didn't him 1030 01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,560 Speaker 1: write what he said. UM, But with the benefit of 1031 01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,840 Speaker 1: hindsight now and now seeing from the whistleblowers from the 1032 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,800 Speaker 1: would have filed um just how dirty the elements of 1033 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:08,040 Speaker 1: the FBI were, certainly the Washington Field office. I now 1034 01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: really believe that he his his instincts were right, because 1035 01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:17,400 Speaker 1: when those FBI agents were leaving him with the laptop, 1036 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,200 Speaker 1: one of them turned and said to him, in our experience, 1037 01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,480 Speaker 1: nothing bad happens to people who don't talk, and he 1038 01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,480 Speaker 1: just that just disquieted him, And as he thought about it, 1039 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,160 Speaker 1: he thought, well, that was a warning for me not 1040 01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: to talk. And I think they thought that he wouldn't talk. 1041 01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,040 Speaker 1: And because they took the laptop, but plus the hard 1042 01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: drive that he'd made a copy of. They must have 1043 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,680 Speaker 1: thought that that was it, that they had everything. They 1044 01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,600 Speaker 1: didn't realize he'd made another copy. Because he made a copy, Miranda, 1045 01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:48,880 Speaker 1: they would have buried the story and claimed that this 1046 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:53,520 Speaker 1: laptop basically never existed exactly, because that's what they've done. 1047 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,320 Speaker 1: We haven't heard from the laptop. When I think it 1048 01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:01,080 Speaker 1: was Senator Grassley or another senator asked, um, someone at 1049 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:05,040 Speaker 1: the FBI in a hearing under oath, where is the laptop? 1050 01:07:05,080 --> 01:07:10,120 Speaker 1: They couldn't answer. Um. They they have. They have effectively 1051 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:15,000 Speaker 1: canceled the laptop. They've canceled Tony Bobolynski. Tony Bobolynsky, you 1052 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,080 Speaker 1: would think would be a prime witness for the grand 1053 01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 1: jury that's going on in Delaware looking at Hunter Biden's services, 1054 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,560 Speaker 1: business dealings, and Um, he knew all about the China, 1055 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,080 Speaker 1: one of these China deals, and that he's never been subpoena, 1056 01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,960 Speaker 1: he's never been called as a witch. It's crazy, Uh, Miranda. 1057 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:39,959 Speaker 1: You mentioned John Paul Maciaac being feared for his safety. 1058 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,360 Speaker 1: Have you feared for your safety at all during the 1059 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:48,360 Speaker 1: reporting on this laptop? Um, Look, it's it's run through 1060 01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:52,480 Speaker 1: my mind, but you know, I don't. I'm not I'm 1061 01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,360 Speaker 1: not too worried. No, but who knows. You're not suicidal. 1062 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,960 Speaker 1: You're not contemplating death, by the way, for everybody out 1063 01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:02,160 Speaker 1: there listening right now. Correct, No, exactly exactly. You're not 1064 01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: planning on jumping off a bridge. You're not planning on 1065 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:11,200 Speaker 1: on vanishing for everybody out there. You're you're of sound mind, exactly. 1066 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,800 Speaker 1: And I think there's so much of the story out 1067 01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:15,920 Speaker 1: now that it's impossible to put the genie back in 1068 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:19,479 Speaker 1: the bottle. So it wouldn't really serve anyone. Uh any 1069 01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:25,519 Speaker 1: any use to to boss me? Now? You mentioned Carl Allen, 1070 01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:27,880 Speaker 1: and I just want to circle back around again to 1071 01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,120 Speaker 1: what I would consider to be the bravery of the 1072 01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,160 Speaker 1: New York Post to cover this, because I mentioned I 1073 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:33,880 Speaker 1: don't think the Times would write it. I don't think 1074 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,559 Speaker 1: the Post would write it. Um I I obviously people 1075 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: can say, oh were you? Look out Kicks sold last 1076 01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,920 Speaker 1: year to Fox. I do a lot of Fox News. 1077 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm not a Fox News employee. For radio. This is 1078 01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,800 Speaker 1: an I Heeart production, this is not Fox. But in 1079 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: my experience with Fox, no one and I've met Rupert 1080 01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:53,680 Speaker 1: and Lochlan and everybody else. No one at Fox has 1081 01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,559 Speaker 1: ever told me, hey, don't talk about this, don't share 1082 01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:59,880 Speaker 1: your opinion on X or Y. That just doesn't have 1083 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,160 Speaker 1: upen in my experience. I bet it is similar for 1084 01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,160 Speaker 1: you as well. What was it like working for Carl Allen? 1085 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,479 Speaker 1: How important is it that the New York Post exists? 1086 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,640 Speaker 1: Because who else is willing to even have the resources 1087 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:17,360 Speaker 1: and frankly, the testicular fortitude to actually write a story 1088 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 1: like this that could create the massive uh you know, 1089 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:26,200 Speaker 1: blowback like it did. Yeah, you put your finger right 1090 01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:28,880 Speaker 1: on really the most important part of this, which is 1091 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,160 Speaker 1: that you know, as a journalist, it's very easy. You know, 1092 01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:36,400 Speaker 1: you you're health leather excited about a story. Uh you know, 1093 01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:39,840 Speaker 1: you think it's real, You've done your work on it. 1094 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,560 Speaker 1: But it's going to be a huge bombshell and potentially 1095 01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,720 Speaker 1: blow up the election. Uh and you know what if 1096 01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:48,880 Speaker 1: it's wrong and it blows up in your face, that 1097 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,559 Speaker 1: you have huge ramisfications for the newspaper and the company. 1098 01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:57,280 Speaker 1: So that decision um to be made by you know, 1099 01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,679 Speaker 1: the top editors, and Carl Allen was at the top 1100 01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:05,479 Speaker 1: um of the New York Post was incredibly courageous and uh, 1101 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,559 Speaker 1: but you know I've known him and worked for him 1102 01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:14,040 Speaker 1: off and on, um for gosh, almost thirty years. I 1103 01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:18,519 Speaker 1: had my first child when I was a baby editor 1104 01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:22,400 Speaker 1: under him, and um, he's always been like the walls 1105 01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:26,120 Speaker 1: of steel. Um. He's one of the real old school 1106 01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,720 Speaker 1: newspaper editors. Uh and just you know, hasn't has a 1107 01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,960 Speaker 1: nose for a story. He's as canny as they come, 1108 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:40,080 Speaker 1: street wise, can smell bullshit a million yards off. He's 1109 01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: incredible and he's the best editor I've ever worked for. 1110 01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:47,439 Speaker 1: Lauren he Um, he just you know, he just he's willing. 1111 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,240 Speaker 1: He knows that all he cares about is the story. 1112 01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,679 Speaker 1: You know, if the story is a great story, without 1113 01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,880 Speaker 1: fear of favorite, doesn't matter whether it's helpful to to 1114 01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,640 Speaker 1: the Republicans or the Democrats. He's just going to go 1115 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,479 Speaker 1: for He loves it. And that's what anyone who's a 1116 01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,519 Speaker 1: real newspaper person, Um, that's what that's what they're about. 1117 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,400 Speaker 1: It's not really being a media person's being a journalist, 1118 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:14,600 Speaker 1: particularly old school newspaper reporter. And um, you know, I 1119 01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:16,760 Speaker 1: I grew up my father was one of them. Um. 1120 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,680 Speaker 1: Cole Allen was one of them. I just grew up 1121 01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:25,120 Speaker 1: admiring and respecting those old school newspaper men, and most 1122 01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,320 Speaker 1: of them were men, and uh, and you know, it's 1123 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,360 Speaker 1: it's a long gone era. And I think Cole's sort 1124 01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,919 Speaker 1: of the last of those, um, those people, because obviously 1125 01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,240 Speaker 1: the Internet has changed everything. But anyway, Cole's just amazing 1126 01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,320 Speaker 1: and it never would have happened without him. And he 1127 01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:43,920 Speaker 1: trusted me, and I trusted him, and that is because 1128 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:48,920 Speaker 1: we had many years of working together. Miranda. I come 1129 01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:52,720 Speaker 1: back to this big question. Why was the FBI so 1130 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,519 Speaker 1: afraid of Donald Trump? Why was the New York Times 1131 01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:00,160 Speaker 1: so afraid of Donald Trump? Why was the Washington was 1132 01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:03,360 Speaker 1: so afraid of Donald Trump that they were willing to 1133 01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:08,439 Speaker 1: rig elections against him? I'm sure in the back of 1134 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:10,599 Speaker 1: your mind you have thought a lot about this too, 1135 01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,840 Speaker 1: because ultimately someone at the FBI had to make the 1136 01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:19,160 Speaker 1: choice to engage in this rig job, right, And maybe 1137 01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,759 Speaker 1: it's a group of people. What I can never quite 1138 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,720 Speaker 1: put my finger on is what did they find so 1139 01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:31,160 Speaker 1: terrifying about this guy? Well, it was that they couldn't 1140 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:36,839 Speaker 1: control him. Um. If you remember, Um, there was a 1141 01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:41,360 Speaker 1: Chinese professor after the election, a video that he had 1142 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,160 Speaker 1: made leaked out and was soon quickly wiped off YouTube. 1143 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 1: But he in that said he was very close to 1144 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:54,360 Speaker 1: in the hierarchy. And in that video he said, Donald Trump, 1145 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, we've always in China had our friends in 1146 01:12:56,840 --> 01:13:01,759 Speaker 1: Wall Street, but not but Wall Street could not control Trump. 1147 01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:06,360 Speaker 1: And that's the essence of it, Wall Street meaning really 1148 01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,040 Speaker 1: the establishment politicians because that's where the money comes from. 1149 01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:17,559 Speaker 1: And um, the you know, Donald Trump was completely just. 1150 01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,120 Speaker 1: He was just America first. He didn't want to go 1151 01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:24,400 Speaker 1: into wars. He wanted to end the war in Afghanistan. UM. 1152 01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,160 Speaker 1: He was a threat to the what Eisenhow called the 1153 01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:32,720 Speaker 1: military industrial complex. UM, really an existential threat. And so 1154 01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,040 Speaker 1: you know there's a lot of gravy trains in Washington 1155 01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:40,839 Speaker 1: are hitched to to that wagon to having endless wars. 1156 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,400 Speaker 1: And that was one part of it. Also his belligerence 1157 01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:49,519 Speaker 1: towards China, which you know a lot of the elites 1158 01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:53,840 Speaker 1: they make their money from China, and he made it 1159 01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,799 Speaker 1: crystal clear that he was going to screw them over 1160 01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,479 Speaker 1: or make things fear screw them over when it came 1161 01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:03,799 Speaker 1: to trade deals. All of that got derailed with COVID, 1162 01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:08,560 Speaker 1: which came from China. UM and then in their cultural project, 1163 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, the woke ideology again, Um he was. He 1164 01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:17,920 Speaker 1: was blowing that up. And so in every aspect of 1165 01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Washington bureaucracy, the administrative state, he was starting to dismantle it. 1166 01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:29,360 Speaker 1: Even even with the economy, you know, his tax cuts 1167 01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:34,520 Speaker 1: and sign which proved to be successful and fuelled the economy. Um, 1168 01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:38,760 Speaker 1: nearly part of his until covid Um. That also was 1169 01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,599 Speaker 1: a rebuke to the kind of norms of you know, 1170 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:48,960 Speaker 1: economic sort of norms in Washington where um he was. 1171 01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,680 Speaker 1: He was just challenging all those norms. And he was 1172 01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,559 Speaker 1: also an embarrassment to them. I guests just with his 1173 01:14:56,680 --> 01:15:02,000 Speaker 1: domeanor but they you know, they talked that up. Um. 1174 01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,240 Speaker 1: And also, I mean the fact is Donald Trump's no saint, 1175 01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:08,400 Speaker 1: He's no angel. He Um. He has a sort of 1176 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:13,320 Speaker 1: shambolic appearance. People were embarrassed by him. Um. He was 1177 01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:17,320 Speaker 1: a little bit to queens for the stuck up people 1178 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,760 Speaker 1: in the state department and in in Washington. Um. And 1179 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,080 Speaker 1: so I think in every way he offended their sensibilities, 1180 01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:31,320 Speaker 1: He challenged their um financial under pinnings and and really 1181 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:36,320 Speaker 1: their power base. He challenged their power and so he 1182 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:39,519 Speaker 1: became an existential threat to the people who really run 1183 01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,960 Speaker 1: this country. UM, we're talking to Miranda Divine, and I 1184 01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,200 Speaker 1: hope you will share this conversation because I think it's 1185 01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,880 Speaker 1: super important, especially if the people you may be friends 1186 01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:52,000 Speaker 1: or family with are in thet of population out there 1187 01:15:52,439 --> 01:15:55,639 Speaker 1: that just doesn't understand the Hunter Biden story, the laptop 1188 01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,880 Speaker 1: and has bought into this Russian disinformation argument put out 1189 01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:02,479 Speaker 1: by so many people in positions of power. Um, a 1190 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:04,320 Speaker 1: lot of people who are listening to us right now 1191 01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,080 Speaker 1: are red pilled. And I think that metaphor works so 1192 01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:10,519 Speaker 1: well because it is true, Miranda, and I'm sure you've 1193 01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,240 Speaker 1: experienced this now too, that once you start to pull 1194 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,559 Speaker 1: the thread here, you recognize how deep some of these 1195 01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,800 Speaker 1: conspiracies go. And if we're really going to be a 1196 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,640 Speaker 1: functioning democracy, it's not things like January six. That's a 1197 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:29,280 Speaker 1: symptom of the dishonesty that I think many people in 1198 01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:33,559 Speaker 1: this country innately feel from their leadership. Right And and 1199 01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,160 Speaker 1: I give you tremendous credit because, without worrying about who 1200 01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:41,799 Speaker 1: you were going to antagonize, you simply pursued the truth. 1201 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:44,880 Speaker 1: And I think you have told the I think it's 1202 01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,120 Speaker 1: a more important story. I really do than Watergate, And 1203 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,439 Speaker 1: it's symptomatic of where our country has gone that the 1204 01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:53,960 Speaker 1: Washington Post, which published the Pentagon Papers and was willing 1205 01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:58,040 Speaker 1: to pursue Watergate, just pretends that this story basically doesn't 1206 01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 1: exist because it directly attacks their base. Which again, this 1207 01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:04,840 Speaker 1: is a bigger picture story. But I think this has 1208 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: a lot to do with the subscription model and the 1209 01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,200 Speaker 1: fact that the New York Times and the Washington Post 1210 01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:12,639 Speaker 1: basically make their money off far left wing people now 1211 01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:16,639 Speaker 1: and they can't antagonize that base without threatening to destroy 1212 01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:20,559 Speaker 1: the essence of their business. And even more than that, 1213 01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,480 Speaker 1: I think there may be something sinister about the subscription 1214 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,160 Speaker 1: model that they have. UM. You know, you look at, 1215 01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:31,000 Speaker 1: for instance, the New York Times, I think the numbers 1216 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,400 Speaker 1: of things like nine million subscribers they have, uh. And 1217 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, when the Internet Internet came into being, um 1218 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:45,200 Speaker 1: and basically stole the revenue base of these incredibly lucrative newspapers, UM, 1219 01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,120 Speaker 1: they had to find another source of income or collapse. 1220 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:50,679 Speaker 1: And many newspapers, as you know, across the country collapsed. 1221 01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:56,080 Speaker 1: And so for those papers, subscription models became everything for them, 1222 01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,200 Speaker 1: and for the New York Times, incredibly successful and you know, 1223 01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:01,880 Speaker 1: when you think about it. I spent a lot of 1224 01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,680 Speaker 1: time reading the comments on columns and stories on the 1225 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:08,000 Speaker 1: Washington Post in the New York Times, and they have 1226 01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,559 Speaker 1: a certain sameness to them which is reminiscent of the 1227 01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:15,880 Speaker 1: sort of botch activity that you get in on Twitter. Um. 1228 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:21,599 Speaker 1: And so I started suspecting that, um, that a lot 1229 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:23,640 Speaker 1: of these subscriptions because you know, you can get a 1230 01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:25,639 Speaker 1: subscription to the New York Times when they do their 1231 01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:29,439 Speaker 1: deals for a dollar, So it would not cost very 1232 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:33,320 Speaker 1: much for the same people who are buying bots on 1233 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:38,519 Speaker 1: Twitter to buy, you know, thousands of subscriptions and then 1234 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:43,479 Speaker 1: set their people onto writing the narrative in the comments. 1235 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:46,920 Speaker 1: And then when you take that one step further. And 1236 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:48,840 Speaker 1: we don't know this because the New York Times the 1237 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,720 Speaker 1: Washington Post don't tell us who their subscribers are, but 1238 01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:57,400 Speaker 1: there are bulk subscriptions, and um, some of these bolk subscriptions. 1239 01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:01,680 Speaker 1: There is suggestion brought up by China and other of 1240 01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:05,840 Speaker 1: our adversaries overseas, and I believe that the Republicans will 1241 01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:10,240 Speaker 1: be looking into that. Oh, that's fascinating as well. Uh. I. 1242 01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,559 Speaker 1: When I was practicing attorney Miranda and I appreciate all 1243 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,519 Speaker 1: your time. I know how busy you are. I think 1244 01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,960 Speaker 1: that's gonna be compelling listening for so many people out there. 1245 01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:21,679 Speaker 1: I used to always end my my depositions UM by saying, 1246 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:23,360 Speaker 1: what do you wish that I had asked you that 1247 01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,559 Speaker 1: I didn't? Is there something else you'd like to say 1248 01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: to this audience that I didn't give you the opportunity 1249 01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:31,080 Speaker 1: to close with that you think is important that they 1250 01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:37,120 Speaker 1: might need to know. Not Really, you've been incredibly uh 1251 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,280 Speaker 1: forensic and your questioning. UM. The only thing I guess 1252 01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:47,040 Speaker 1: I just leave with is that for four decades, Joe 1253 01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:51,040 Speaker 1: Biden has sort of traded on this mythology that he's 1254 01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,400 Speaker 1: honest Joe, that he's a family man, he's a devout Catholic, 1255 01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:00,519 Speaker 1: um that you know, his entire career was wounded on 1256 01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:04,160 Speaker 1: a terrible tragedy where his wife and his baby daughter 1257 01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,719 Speaker 1: were killed in a car accident that injured his two sons, 1258 01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:13,439 Speaker 1: Hunter and Bo Biden, and he used the photograph of 1259 01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:17,040 Speaker 1: himself being sworn in at their hospital bed, these two 1260 01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:21,559 Speaker 1: bandaged injured boys in the foreground um as the basis 1261 01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:26,080 Speaker 1: of his campaigns ever since, and that elicited a lot 1262 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:30,080 Speaker 1: of sympathy across the country. But then when I started 1263 01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:32,360 Speaker 1: doing the book, I thought, what kind of a man, 1264 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, why did he have to get sworn in 1265 01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:40,240 Speaker 1: inside the hospital room? Such a great question. Even at 1266 01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,720 Speaker 1: that time of great tragedy and grief, he had his 1267 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:48,360 Speaker 1: eye on the political payoff. And and then later on, 1268 01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking he knew that his son Hunter 1269 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,200 Speaker 1: had an alcohol and drug abuse problem. I mean, Hunter 1270 01:20:55,280 --> 01:20:58,400 Speaker 1: was arrested when he was eighteen. He he was a 1271 01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:02,479 Speaker 1: troubled song and uh, and what kind of a father, 1272 01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:06,719 Speaker 1: knowing his son is a terrible addict, puts him, makes 1273 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,640 Speaker 1: him the bag man, and puts him in front of 1274 01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:14,920 Speaker 1: this unaccountable tient of cash from Barisma as well as 1275 01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:21,040 Speaker 1: everything else. Um. You know, I just my entire I 1276 01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:24,760 Speaker 1: used too many years ago. I think I'm Catholic. I 1277 01:21:25,200 --> 01:21:28,200 Speaker 1: thought Joe Biden was an Irish Catholic, sort of tribally 1278 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,960 Speaker 1: like my people. Um. But but over time I've come 1279 01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:37,479 Speaker 1: to see him as a very sinister figure. And I 1280 01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:41,280 Speaker 1: think that his legacy, if nothing else comes out of 1281 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,439 Speaker 1: all of this, I think that at least his legacy 1282 01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:47,360 Speaker 1: will be seen honestly, and that he will be seen 1283 01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:51,599 Speaker 1: as one of the most malign people to become president. 1284 01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,479 Speaker 1: Miranda Divine, you deserve all the Politzers. I appreciate all 1285 01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,719 Speaker 1: the work that you have done. I appreciate the time today. 1286 01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:00,760 Speaker 1: I would encourage people to go all of you at 1287 01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,840 Speaker 1: Miranda Divine. If they want more details, I would tell 1288 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:06,599 Speaker 1: them to go buy your book Laptop from Hell. And 1289 01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,639 Speaker 1: we appreciate your time. Keep up your good work and 1290 01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:14,599 Speaker 1: given what the FBI is up to, stay healthy. Thanks 1291 01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:18,600 Speaker 1: so look, Clay, I'm Clay Travis. This has been Thank you. 1292 01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. This has been wins and losses. She 1293 01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:23,680 Speaker 1: was Miranda Divine. This was a lot of fun. I 1294 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,280 Speaker 1: hope you guys will share and listen to more episodes.